Terri Schiavo and the Pope on Feeding Tubes
Nearly a month ago I wrote a bit of satire I titled, "Florida Judge Orders Pope Removed from Life Support."Today I learn via Decision '08 that the Pope is actually receiving nutrition through a feeding tube. Where are all the right to die death cult members now? In another bizarre twist Glenn Beck uncovers a CBS story announcing the death of Terri Schiavo two-days ago. I wonder if they've written a similar obituary for the Pope yet? Scared Monkeys has more. Why does Monty Python and the Holy Grail suddenly come to mind? Only this time, it's not so funny. UPDATE: Pennywit notes that the CBS story was probably just a screw up and that obituaries are often written in advance. I seem to recall a Saturday Night Live skit about this....... UPDATE II: James Joyner points me to Terri Schiavo's blog. Disgusting. If you think the blog is bad, read the comments. Hell has a special place for some of those nutjobs.
They would probably say that he does not choose to die, so therein lies the difference.
The Catholics Church teaches that humans do not own our bodies and therefore do not have the moral right to make such a decision to begin with.
G.K. Chesterton once stated that he joined the Catholic Church (from early 20th century Anglicanism--what would he say NOW?!) because he wanted a church that would stand firm in its beliefs and change the times, not change WITH the times.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 30, 2005 08:59 AM
Posted by: pennywit at March 30, 2005 09:14 AM
Posted by: Rightwingsparkle at March 30, 2005 09:21 AM
Posted by: pennywit at March 30, 2005 10:28 AM
It is not the fact that Terri's obit was published, this has happened in the past to The Pope, Bob Hope and Reagan. The amazing thing is that is was CBS who did it. Can this news outlet step in it more? When it rains it pours.
Posted by: Red at March 30, 2005 10:42 AM
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at March 30, 2005 11:08 AM
A feeding tube that is surgically implanted to the stomach are for those who are brain dead and/or brain stem death to sustain life. One is temporary, one is permanent.
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at March 30, 2005 11:22 AM
As the sick,brain damaged and helpless passed her, she would yell out...Tube...Tube...Tube....No Tube for You!!!!!
Shit, as long as she knows what she's doing, lets put her in charge of this tube thing. She seems to like making these decisions.
Posted by: Brad at March 30, 2005 12:01 PM
Posted by: Demosophist at March 30, 2005 12:06 PM
If Saddam's regime had followed this practice, am I wrong in thinking that we would have condemned it?
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 30, 2005 12:16 PM
Nothing was funnier than hearing Brokaw say "Gerald Ford died today after being eaten by wolves."
Posted by: mark at March 30, 2005 12:30 PM
Do you know how many people in this country are on feeding tubes and in similar circumstances to Terri Schiavo? It is not up to you or me to determine their fate. The fact that people are whining that Congress got involved is classic. Who asked them to? TERRI SCHIAVO's PARENTS, THAT's WHO. Its not like they just bardged into it without being asked.
Now that we see the 11th Circuit Ct making a ruling that they should have done 10 days ago after they denied 2 motions just makes it that much more obvious that they have made mistakes along the way.
No matter what side anyone is on, to make fun of a brain damaged dying woman is beyond sick. There are special levels of Hell reserved for such actions.
Posted by: Red at March 30, 2005 12:43 PM
Maybe the 11th Circuit will be able to act in time to prevent them playing a sinister part in this passion play. But I don't have a great deal of confidence that they mean to.
Posted by: tee bee at March 30, 2005 03:36 PM
Because she cannot think, she doesn't deserve to live? Gosh, that would wipe out everyone in politics and some people I know!
Isn't it against the Catholic religion to want to die, even if Terri DID have it in writing? Aren't they against having someone die at the hands of someone else?
"What a world! What a world!"
Posted by: Laura at March 30, 2005 04:18 PM
Well, experts in the field seem to disagree with you.
Posted by: js at March 30, 2005 04:28 PM
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 30, 2005 05:13 PM
The following is from my earlier post:
"The Catholics Church teaches that humans do not own our bodies and therefore do not have the moral right to make such a decision to begin with."
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 30, 2005 05:19 PM
Posted by: Collin Baber at March 30, 2005 05:21 PM
Posted by: Collin Baber at March 30, 2005 05:39 PM
Posted by: Collin Baber at March 30, 2005 06:12 PM
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 30, 2005 06:29 PM
There is a good part of the left that looks at killing this poor woman as political payback.
Posted by: Brad at March 30, 2005 06:58 PM
However, when it come to the faggot, sissy assed, terrorist supporting, lying, America hating, piece of shit dog Colon Babler feel free to express your utmost feelings. There has never been a more loathsome individual on the face of the earth. Not Saddam, nor Hitler, nor Stalin or John Wayne Gacy is as much an enemy to decent humanity as this garbage punk.
Again, if you question me. Run an internet check on this vile, lying , piece of shit.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 30, 2005 09:40 PM
Of course, OJ moved there. Elian was taken hostage there. The Mob used to (still does?) thrive there. Even the forces of nature (hurricanes) I say to myself seem to be trying to send a message.
Years ago, upon going to work in Florida (briefly), I was warned (along with my colleagues) to be "on the alert" for various problems since the laws in Florida were considered full of loopholes that would essentially "screw one over."
So since I'm disgusted with that state's judges, their laws, their legislature, and a do-nothing governor who whimpers before a two-bit probate judge, I'm from now on boycotting Florida. Forget visiting Epcot, the Space Center and the rest. No Palm Beach, the Everglades, or drinking Florida orange juice.
As far as I'm concerned, that state's not really part of the USA for me.
I hope that all the good people who do reside there, will boot out all these "mullah-judges" and then put a good many in the legislature on permanent Spring Break.
Posted by: RJ at March 31, 2005 02:11 AM
Um.....No, people who actually have experience dealing with and studying these types of situations and learning what does happen to the body during this time. If you read the article, which I doubt, you would have learned an unbiased, fact-based assessment of the situation, not a diatribe of whether it is right or wrong.
Now, a hypothetical question for all the people who would like the feeding tube re-inserted and quoting religion/ethics/morality as their argument.
What if someone while researching Dr. Josef Mengele's notes on his so-called "research" at Auschwitz, discovered a treatment that could bring people out of a "persistant vegitative state" in varying levels. Should this treatment be used?
Posted by: js at March 31, 2005 07:43 AM
I'll bet there just as many doctors who will say the exact opposite. Not that it matters. The Church has spoken on the issue. Following the Religion of Science has too many risks.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 31, 2005 08:03 AM
Posted by: greyrooster at March 31, 2005 09:13 AM
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at March 31, 2005 09:42 AM
Enough said, no free-thinker there. According to the Muslim radicals, their church has spoken as well and that's why they are waging holy war across the world. Many in Germany considered Adolf Hitler a god during his regime and therefore followed his rule. It appears you're more like these people than those who believe in individual rights.
"Don't assume everyone else besides you is illiterate."
Oh, ouch. Grasping for straws are we. You can always tell when someone feels they are losing a debate when they begin personal attacks because they have nothing else to fall back on. Thanks for ceding victory to me.
Posted by: js at March 31, 2005 09:43 AM
"no free-thinker there"
So obedience is always wrong, regardless of who is speaking or “giving the orders”? Wouldn't such a generalization lead to anarchy? How could there be an effective military? Every "free thinking" soldier would be arguing with the officer, demanding to do what he or she wants to. Or deserting? Or is EVERY army bad, because our army demands obedience just like Saddam's did? How could there be any organized club? What Boy or Girl Scout could ever take an oath to uphold any standards?
"It appears you're more like these people than those who believe in individual rights."
Faithful Catholics are like...Hitler's followers? Christianity condemns forcing anyone to adhere to its beliefs. It states reasons for its beliefs. There must be individual choice, not blind obedience.
"You can always tell when someone feels they are losing a debate when they begin personal attacks because they have nothing else to fall back on."
Personal attacks? You mean when I said that you were like Hitler's followers? That was you.
"Thanks for ceding victory to me."
Logical Fallacy # 58: The Wishful Thinking Fallacy, where a person thinks that simply stating something makes it true.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 31, 2005 10:43 AM
I once had a philosophy teacher that stated “If you look at any organization, and think of them as a business, you will not be far from the truth.” What he was trying to imply is that no business ever wants to grow smaller. They all want to grow and become bigger, more profitable, more influential. I see the CC(Catholic Church) doing this now. One example is when the Pope tells church members that they can not use birth control. But I will leave off on “my” perceived evils of the CC. and go back to right to life issue. (If you want to start a new thread about Catholism or religion in general, I would be happy to send in my posts.)
To me religion is a very personal thing, between oneself and one’s deity(ies). No matter how good and saintly the Pope is, he can not assure me a place in heaven. So what I do to my body is strictly between God and me. I also believe in the extreme power of my God, (as I stated in an earlier post.) I truly believe that if God wishes it, he can (even now), make Terri well enough to be a member of the Lords of Dance group. He has the power to do anything, (except maybe to clean out chicken little brains “fowl” mouth.) :). So in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I believe Terri was truly placed into God’s hand. If God had wanted it, Terri could of woken up and demand a 24oz T-Bone stake and 3 lb lobster, had a feast in bed. But in his ultimate wisdom, I believe God has taken Terri to much better place, then the hospital bed she has been stuck in for 15 years.
And to Red, I don’t blame Terri’s parents asking anyone and everyone to save their daughter. I do blame President Bush and the U.S. Congress for getting involved in what
should have been a State issue. The only Federal involvement that should have been involved was that of the U.S. Supreme court, and only if there was reason to consider a state law was unconstitutional. I do agree that no one should make fun of any handicap, and although I do not wish anyone to go to hell, I would like to see them stuck in Purgatory for several decades.
Posted by: Butch at March 31, 2005 11:48 AM
As Christians, we shouldn’t want anyone to go to hell. We’ve all done things that deserve such a fate, some worse than others. I hope that you're right about Terri--her last two weeks have indeed been purgatorial.
We need to stick to the topic at hand.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 31, 2005 12:16 PM
Can someone be obedient and free-thinking? Armies used to attack by lining up shoulder to shoulder and firing their weapons in the direction of the opposing army. If a commander asked a soldier to do that these days, I would hope the soldier would be a thinker in this situation and say, Excuse me sir, I believe I have a better way of doing this.
"Christianity condemns forcing anyone to adhere to its beliefs. It states reasons for its beliefs. There must be individual choice, not blind obedience."
So what is wrong again with Terri Schiavo's choice to have her tube removed? It was proven in a court of law that Terri did not want this, so her tube was removed. If there is individual choice, it does not make sense to associated Terri's case with the Pope, as the subject of this post did.
Posted by: js at March 31, 2005 12:35 PM
There was no crime.
To you filthy Liberal bags of puss that defend the murder of this handicapped woman, you will be judged. Not by me, but on the day you die. Then, if God wills it, you will suffer. Shame on you.
It is bad enough that you murder your kids through abortion, you have to murder helpless people. Who is next on the list libbies?
I am sure there are thousands in State Hospitals sucking up tax dollars that could be used to keep people on Welfare or pay for Socialized meds. Why not relieve them of this burden called Life and end their suffering by starving them to death? You did it once, the second time is easy. After that, you will give Eichman a run for his money.
Posted by: OB Snooks at March 31, 2005 01:03 PM
Will wonders never cease?
Posted by: Venom at March 31, 2005 01:23 PM
Posted by: filthy allah at March 31, 2005 01:27 PM
Not sure you want a baby right now? Kill it.
Sick of paying for your ex wifes care? Kill it.
Don't want a child with a cleft pallet? Kill it.
Gran pissing you off? Unplug her, kill it.
Johnny Taliban causes a CIA agent to get killed? He is a hero to the left.
Pollard spied for Israel and got life? Unfair
Murders don't get TV in prison? Unfair.
Terrorists who saw heads off get stacked in prison? Crime against humanity.
I don't understand you libbies-
Posted by: obsnooks at March 31, 2005 01:32 PM
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at March 31, 2005 02:16 PM
Posted by: Venom at March 31, 2005 02:17 PM
Oh, I forgot, you don't have a computer. You use the one at de govment job. That way de tax pay fo you time.
Posted by: greyrooster at March 31, 2005 04:59 PM
By the way the State of Florida requires all cremations to be autopsied. Once again this man is not doing this because he wanted it. It was because he had to!...Michael Schiavo is a self centered control freak.
Posted by: Zsa Zsa at March 31, 2005 08:21 PM
As far as the church goes, the only thing you know about church is where to find the ones with a black congregation so you can place a burning cross in front. I saw you other post about if your daughter was in Terri’s condition, you didn’t know what you would want for them, to let them go or have them live on. Well you are an arrogant
Dumb ass if you don’t know. If I had any love one in a persistent vegetated state, I would definitely want them to be taken up by God to a much better place then any place in this world. Although I might miss them terribly, I would not want to deny them the privilege
of heaven just so I could be comforted by their present. I am also sure that when they passed on, they would be in a better place then here mainly because there will not be any “fowl” mouth bigot chickens there.
To the rest of you on this post, I do apologize for taking up space having to deal with chicken little brains. Back to the posts that were present, I would like to place some comments. No government agency killed Terri. The state of Florida, if they did anything,
was put her back into her “natural” state. She was not strapped down and have a lethal dose injected into her (which might have been kinder if she had). No one placed a pillow over her head; no one shot her. Terri was placed back into the hands of God. As I stated earlier, I believe that God has the power to do anything. The bible tells us, God is all powerful. God can bring people back from the dead. He can heal any injury or illness. If God can truly do these things, then wouldn’t that mean he wanted Terri by his side.
Let me ask you this. If it was your body that was lying in a hospital bed, would you want to continue to have your body just lay there, unable to do anything, even defend yourself, or would you rather find a place in heaven. Would you like to lie there basically all alone,
or be in heaven with family and friends who have already passed on. Although I would miss my family very much, I would be very glad to see my father and grandmother again.
Once again, this is just “my” opinion. Each of us has to determine for themselves, what was and is right and wrong. But the main thing we all need to do is respect each other opinions as long as those opinions do not threaten or harm the populace at large.
Posted by: Butch at April 01, 2005 09:01 AM
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 01, 2005 09:13 AM
Don’t get me wrong. I am not suggesting that if one is place on life support, that we pull the plug the next day or next week. As long as there is a “reasonable” chance of recovery, we should let them try. So how long is reasonable, well that should be evaluated for each individual case. Also, I am not wanting to pull the plug to ease my comfort, but I truly wish to see no one suffer. I believe that not even the asshole terrorist in Iraq, or the baby killer in Florida, or the serial killer in Kansa should be allow suffer. With that being said, that does not mean I don’t believe they should not pay for their crimes, even with their life. Giving the death penalty for these criminals would be fine, but we as a society should do it with as much mercy as possible. That is what I truly did not like in Terri’s case, is how her death was accomplish. I still think it is stupid of us as humans, that we can give so great and tender mercy of putting an incurable animal out of their misery, but we will not do the same for our fellow man(and woman). I know we both disagree on this point, but I believe that both of us can agree to disagree with each other and still be civil.
Posted by: Butch at April 01, 2005 09:53 AM
And then she died.
She may not have been ready. We have to trust the Church on this because we don't know. The Church said that she should have been given food and water. These are minimal things, not like keeping her alive on a breathing machine. Catholics, whether we understand everything (who, with a human mind, can TRULY understand the mystery of the Trinity?), have to be obedient to Her teachings.
And I agree that we should be civil, Butch. Peace to you.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 01, 2005 10:11 AM
Posted by: greyrooster at April 01, 2005 11:56 AM
Have you seen those videos of politicians where they edited the tape to make them say something stupid, like "I went to Austria but I didn't see any kangaroo"?
As for her parents, Christian and other religions have always held that a married woman doesn't belong to her father any more, but to her husband. Money changes hands in many cultures as part of the transaction.
Posted by: Robert Carnegie at April 02, 2005 03:46 AM
"...decided to forego further medical treatment"
The Pope is denying himself the above. He is not starving himself. Two different things. The Church and the Pope have made a distinction between the above and what is natural for human existence, basic food and water.
Posted by: Young Bourbon Professional at April 02, 2005 11:21 AM
I'm sure I'd heard otherwise.
Posted by: Robert Carnegie at April 02, 2005 06:12 PM
Ain't life a bitch.
Have a good one.
Posted by: greyrooster at April 03, 2005 08:39 AM
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Posted by: M-S at August 16, 2005 08:29 AM
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