New Kenneth Bigley Propaganda Film Released

For original post, scroll past update section.

UPDATE 10/08: Kenneth Bigley executed in Iraq by Zarqawi terrorist organization. The story is developing, but sources in Fallujah claim Bigley beheaded. For the latest information, links to video, and images on the Kenneth Bigley murder please go to the MAIN PAGE or by CLICKING HERE for the 10/08 report.

For the latest information, links to video, and images on hostages in Iraq please check the main page by CLICKING HERE.

Here is a list of all the victims of Islamic Beheadings since late July this year.

10/08 Kenneth Bigley Executed in Iraq Images and Video Here.
10/02 Iraqi Victim Barie Nafie Dawoud Ibrahim Beheading Video and Images Here
9/22 American Hostage Jack Hensley Beheading Video and Images Here
9/20 American Hostage Eugene Armstrong Beheaded on Video Here
9/13 Turkish Hostage Beheaded on Video Here
9/08 Three Muslim 'Informants' Beheaded by the Religion of Irony
8/31 12 Nepalese Hostages Killed, 1 Beheaded Here
8/26 Italian Hostage Enzo Baldoni Murdered Here
8/25 Alleged CIA Agent Beheaded in Video Here
8/13 Another Alleged CIA Agent Beheaded on Video Here
8/11 CIA Agent Executed: Another Beheading Video
8/09 Another Bulgarian Beheading Video
8/02 Turkish Hostage Murdered
7/28 Bulgarian Beheading Video
7/27 Kashmir Rebels Bomb Hospital, Behead Three
7/27 Paul Johnson Beheading Video and Images Here
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Begin original post:

UPDATE: Scroll down for update. Al Jazeera, the virulently anti-Western satellite television network, has aired a new tape of British Hostage Kenneth Bigley pleading for his life. Images from the tape are posted below. The video can be found at Global Terror Alert or by clicking this link. The new video is obvious propaganda intended to sway public sentiment in the UK against the ongoing coalition effort in Iraq. In it, al Jazeera quotes Bigley as saying

"Tony Blair is a liar - he doesn't care about me. I am just one person. My captors don't want to kill me."

Further:

According to Aljazeera, Bigley also accused Blair of not conducting any negotiations to free him, and urged the prime minister to work to release Iraqi women prisoners to save his life.
Understandably, Bigley and his family want everything done possible to keep him alive. Kenneth Bigley's mother and brother, though, have been doing the work of the terrorists for them--trying to lay the blame for Bigley predicament on Tony Blair. I am happy that Kenneth Bigley is still alive, but by negotiating with terrorists we legitimate their actions. Caving to terrorists can only lead to more hostages being taken and more beheadings

UPDATE: I have seen the video. In addition to what I've written above, Bigley asks the British government to negotiate. The French did, why not the British? He say's:

Mr. Blair says he will not negotiate with terrorists. The French have negotiated with these people to release hostages. I'm begging you. I'm begging you to speak and push Blair (raises voice), push Blair to help me."
The terrorists also watch the BBC. They are passing messages to Bigley that his mother is sick in the hospital and he pleads for the Brits to have compassion on his mother by working for his release.

These terrorists are even more sophisticated than I thought. They know exactly how to manipulate Westerners. Please do not be manipulated. Chin up. Do not negotiate with the terrorists. If you do, Bigley may be saved--but countless others may die.

bigleyinchains2.jpg

bigleyinchains4.jpg

Hat tip: Firstbrokenangel

Posted by: Rusty at 01:15 PM

Comments

1 Did anyone notice that he says sisters when mentioning the female prisoners I wonder if any of the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi are related to them

Posted by: Dee at September 29, 2004 01:53 PM

2 whoops forgot heres a link to the video

http://www.globalterroralert.com/

Posted by: Dee at September 29, 2004 02:02 PM

3 The poor bastard! What must be going through this man's mind???? Two whole weeks, these savages have him; and now, he's in a cage, with less freedom than an animal in a zoo! Wonder if they're giving him anything to drink or eat?

How horrible it must be for him to think that at any given moment, he could end up like Armstrong or Hensley? They are milking this last hostage for all its worth.

And using modern technology(via videotape and the internet) in the worst possible way.

May God give him the strength and courage to bear this.

Bastards.

Posted by: Laura at September 29, 2004 02:20 PM

4 Yes i also wonder what they are feeding him.
I feel so sorry for him and his family especially now its all videoed for the world to see.

I wached all the beheadings but i also my be hipicritical here but the familys of these men know many globaly are watching their deaths.

Imagine how they feel about that.

I don't think we should give in to these men as it will happen more often then.

Italy paid out and so did france so it will be interesing to fine out if they do make more attacks in france and italy for money or deals.

What do you think....

Posted by: casper at September 29, 2004 03:18 PM

5 Stay STRONG Great Britain!
Terrorists are NOT to be bargained with!

The money will most likely facilitate their desire to kill more westerners and disrupt the forward progress.

Appeasing their demands will result in the immediate effect of providing the terrorists with additional resources ($$$), and the lingering after effect of more kidnappings.

Bug any infidels who insist on staying there (in the face of warnings, threats, and worse). If (more likely when) any more are taken hostage, forcefully and publicly eliminate all associated with the hostage taking. Repeat as necessary.

Or CUT and RUN

Thanks for the forum
Rev. Rick
p.s. those not with us are agains us
NEVER FORGET

Posted by: Rev. Rick at September 29, 2004 03:40 PM

6 "These terrorists are even more sophisticated than I thought. They know exactly how to manipulate Westerners. Please do not be manipulated. Chin up. Do not negotiate with the terrorists. If you do, Bigley may be saved--but countless others may die."

I'm not so certain Rusty. It wouldn't shock me in the least if they recieved a ransom and then killed him. In fact, I imagine that is what would happen. To my knowledge, no country or group has negotiated with Zarqawi, though many countries and groups have negotiated with other groups.

The bright picture to opening negotiations between Zarqawi and England, that is to say the government of England, is that Zarqawi might make the fatal mistake of disclosing his location.

Posted by: Chad Evans at September 29, 2004 04:03 PM

7 People lay most of the blame for the chaos in post-Saddam Iraq on America and Britain while playing down the role of the forces of fanatical religious terrorism which are creating anarchy in that unfortunate country.
There is a simplistic view that if the West withdrew from Iraq and the state of Israel ceased to exist, all would be sweetness, light and reason in that part of the globe.
This view is poppycock. The forces of fundamentalist Islam are on the march, and a clash of civilisations is alresdy under way.

Posted by: paul at September 29, 2004 05:18 PM

8 Paul, may I please have the definition of poppycock? I'm not making fun, I've just never heard it before.

Posted by: Chad Evans at September 29, 2004 05:25 PM

9 This is terrible, absolute torture. I have no intention of watching the video-those pictures speak a thousand words. How must that poor man be feeling? He doesn't know if he is going to live/die, he doesn't look like he is being fed and now he knows his mother is ill through stress. These monsters certainly know the meaning of torture.

I want Tony to do anything to get this man released and get us Brits straight out of Iraq. I'm fed up with out Prime Minister making the UK look like a lapdog to the US. No offence meant to Americans by that last comment.!!

By the way Chad, please read up on basic UK history-the UK stands for United Kingdom i.e Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is not an "English Government" that dictates our political matters, its a "British Government". If you really want to offend the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland soldiers out in Iraq, you've just done so by your post.

Posted by: MissBrit at September 29, 2004 05:29 PM

10 NEIN is reporting the net is full of messages saying to "smite his neck." Odds are against him. He'll probably be dead by tomorrow. You can't degrade someone like this and expect them to survive. But that isn't the reason for my saying that - they are really pushing the envelope on this one. I don't think Ken Bigley's going to win - no matter how much noise his brother makes. But these assoles... may a huge rocket find them fast.
~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 05:42 PM

11 How long are they going to keep this man alive? It looks like this could go on until the Allied Forces bomb the place and unintentionally kill Bigley anyway.

He could be their media spokesperson for months at this rate.

The headlines in the British Press suggested that Bigley was on the verge of being released at any moment, this video obviously shows that that scenario is as far away as ever.

Posted by: Red Devil at September 29, 2004 05:47 PM

12 And no one, not the brits, not Tony Blair, is to blame for this except the damned TERRORISTS. Dragging this out like this...degrading this man like this...... and they think a pow-wow with these guys is going to make a difference? HA!
~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 05:47 PM

13 I can see where someone gets so desperate, they are willing to pay a ransom, I really can...wouldn't you want the powers that be to do everything possible if that was YOUR husband, brother, son, uncle, whatever? I know I would.

Sadly, Bigley may die anyway, and so so terribly, even worse than the two before him as they met their fate rather quickly, whereas Bigley's already dying a slow death by humiliation, anguish, agony, malnutrition, confined quarters, you name it.

I said it many times before, and I'll say it again....Bush get the troops the FUCK OUT OF THERE, and capture these sadistic motherfuckers, one by one, snuff them out, surely someone can name their location??? How about interviewing the hostages that are freed and maybe get some info. from them as to where these fucks hide out????

My heart goes out to Bigley and his loved ones...Zarqawi's leading them blind.

God bless him.

Posted by: Laura at September 29, 2004 05:51 PM

14 Miss Brit - go to hell and stand up for your country and it's beliefs!!! That's what a true Patriot does and you are far from it. You missy, should be ashamed of yourself. YOU NEVER GIVE IN TO TERRORISTS AND THIS MAN MAY NOT EVEN BE ALIVE but video's last forever. And he's being told what to say plus the stress alone doesn't help a person who is 62 years old; hell, it doesn't even help me. It's people like you who make standing against terrorism even more difficult even when it's the right thing to do.

Poppycock could be used instead of BULLSHIT, Chad. :-)

Seems to be a lot of that going around, too.

~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 06:00 PM

15 Global Alert rots when it comes to info. BTW, those French journalists are being held by regular Iraqi's, not Zarqawi, and they still haven't been released yet. NEVER GIVE IN TO TERRORISM. EVER!!!
~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 06:04 PM

16 MissyBrit: You forgot Ireland - Ireland and Northern Ireland are two separate entities. They even have their own separate flags. dah...
~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 06:08 PM

17 NEVER GIVE IN TO TERRORISTS. I understand how you feel, MissBrit, but that's exactly what they WANT. More $$$$ means more recruiting, more savages to train for future videos perish the thought!!) and so on.

On the other hand, why don't we take them up on their offer just one time, and kill the fuckers as soon as the money's exchanged? I know, wishful thinking....these fucks are probably on these websites reading these very messages. They love it that they're getting all this attention with all the message boards and forums out there.

Makes me wonder though if someone kidnapped your kid and asked for a ransom, wouldn't YOU pay it to get the kid back? Different circumstances, I guess. Same thought patten, though.

chanting, to Bush: "get the fuck out, get the fuck out, get the fuck out....."

Posted by: Laura at September 29, 2004 06:11 PM

18 Look Chad, I fully supported the invasion of Iraq in the beginning. I did not support the manner in which Tony Blair brought the UK alongside the US though. Like many others, I have now felt lied to by our government. I thought we were entering the war to rid the place of WMD. I am truly glad the coalition forces got Saddam Hussein. What I find disturbing is the fact that there is no exit plan for this war and how do Mr Bush, Mr Blair and other allied countries think they are going rid this world of "evil"? This is going to be a never-ending war. More innocent people are getting killed, kidnapped, brutalised, beheaded, incarcerated like caged animals. Quite frankly, this is the biggest can of worms opened.

Yes, it is simplistic to say negotiate with the terrorists, let this man go and get the troops out Iraq. It is totally idealistic and I know it's never going to happen, although I really wished it would. Who in their right minds want to see a man/woman/child killed? I also don't like the thought of the risks our troops are putting themselves in.

There is no need to be offensive towards me and my opinion Chad. I wasn't towards you-I was merely pointing out, what seems like a global assumption: that England equals Britain/UK. It doesn't and that is not meant to be offensive towards English people either. They would feel just the same way if someone kept referring to the UK as Scotland or Wales.

Posted by: MissBrit at September 29, 2004 06:16 PM

19 Laura,

"get them the fuck out?" What exactly do you mean? That's what the terrorists want and if you don't think we're not bombing Falluja for that very same reason, to get the terrorists OUT, not the troops.
~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 06:18 PM

20 And Chad,if you read my post properly, I didn't forget Northern Ireland, which is in fact part of the United Kingdom. Ireland is a seperate country and is not included in the United Kingdom-I know because, unlike you obviously, I hold a UK passport.

Posted by: MissBrit at September 29, 2004 06:23 PM

21 Miss Brit, it was Chad who gave you a hard time; that was me. And Chad saying to Great Britian to keep their chins up is no insult to the other countries that comprise the UK. Hell, Australia is part of it, so is Grenada and other smaller British "empires" such as Bermuda, part of the Virgin islands. I don't think anyone in Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Britian care, except you. Get over it, girl.
~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 06:28 PM

22 Laura, I hear what you are saying and I do agree with you. War is just awful. I just feel the reasons why we went to war have changed and this has now turned into something else. Yep, negotiate with the terrorists and before you know it, there are a million and one splinter terrorist cells popping up everywhere with the green light to go ahead to abduct and blackmail any particular government. I fully understand that. But it's one thing saying don't negotiate when looking at these images of an old man, begging for his life. I sure don't envy Tony Blair.

Posted by: MissBrit at September 29, 2004 06:37 PM

23 Look Firstbrokenangel, I don't want to argue about this topic anymore as it is swaying off the Mr Bigley situation and yes, it was me that digressed off the topic before you start throwing even more insults at me. Just to end this argument, Australia,Grenada, New Zealand blah blah blah ARE NOT part of the UK. All I was trying to say originally was that by referring to Britain as England is not correct and can be viewed as quite offensive. I was only trying to correct you. It's the equivalent of me referring to George Bush as the President of Florida!! You cannot possibly say Scotland and Australia have the same status within the UK. Australia have their own bloody government, prime minister-their foreign affairs have sweet FA to do with us. The only thing we do share with such aforementioned countries, is the sovereignty. In the UK, Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are governed by one UK government. No other country is involved. This is getting boring now, I am boring myself and probably anyone who chooses to read this drivel!! Enough said on this matter ok? I'm away to jump off my parapet now.

Posted by: MissBrit at September 29, 2004 06:54 PM

24 Okay, let me clarify a few things: when I say, "get the fuck out", I mean it for Bush to get our troops the fuck out of there! Were any weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq? Even if we gave Bush the benefit of the doubt, now that he knows there weren't any or we didn't find any, admit it, and get the troops out, plain and simple. Let the country do what it wants. The only good thing to come out of this is we get Saddam, BUT, was it worth going in there to get one figurehead, and risk all the lives of these other innocent people?

Additionally, everyone keeps saying "the Iraqi's weren't responsible for 9/11, it was Osama and his tribe"...how do we know that? Since 9/11, every group from the MidEast comes out of the woodwork to claim this or that.

Why would the Iraqi civilians greet us with relief, only to go against us now? We've overstayed our welcome (I use that word loosely) and it's time to retreat. Of course, since it's so close to election, pulling out now would be cause for people to think Bush was a wimp and didn't stand up to them!

You can't win!

Posted by: Laura at September 29, 2004 07:20 PM

25 I think it says alot about these "pricks" and how much they hate Americans as our men were never given a chance to even beg for their lives, it was just off with their heads. I am positive though that they would of never begged. I wouldn't of begged but I would of said "F*** U" right before my head was cut off. They almost looked druged up, they probably put something in their drinks. I wonder why they never said anything. Do you think they lied to them and told them they were making a tape for their release. I pray that the families find some comfort in the fact that we don't give in to these F***ers. After the elections are held I hope our boys come home so those people can just kill themselves.

Posted by: mugwhibaby at September 29, 2004 07:46 PM

26 I agree with ya, mug...I wondered also, if they may have been given something, although I did see plenty of movement with Armstrong, who seemed to be rocking back and forth and side to side, seemingly muttering something, praying maybe???? I, too, would have screamed "FU" or at least, yell to my family that I loved them, etc. Who knows what we'd do at the last moment? Did you see that Korean video??? He absolutely pleaded, begged, and rambled on and on about how he wanted to go back to Korea, that this was bullshit, and that he wanted to live....so fucking SAD. He, too, did nothing at the very end but let out a howl and he was done.

Hensley by far, was the most stoic, just sitting there, as still as a Buddha. Although during his hostage video, after he states his name and occupation, if you look closely, you can see him take a big gulp, and even though he was blindfolded, I could tell he had a pained expression on his face, let he was almost going to break down. Very fucking sad. I'm getting upset again at the thoughts of this.

God rot the lot of them.

Posted by: Laura at September 29, 2004 07:58 PM

27 Okay now I'm livid! I just watched the Bigley video, and at the beginning it says, "now available on DVD...soon to be available in North America"....who the FUCK do these bastards think they are???? What is Bigley, the newest flick to be shown at theaters nationwide???

I heard they are selling videos of the beheadings and people are scooping them up like forbidden pornography! I hope to God that doesn't happen here...please God, don't let it happen here!!!

I can only imagine the families of these poor victims, knowing this shit is being released, their loved ones final moments, which under normal circumstances, is supposed to be private!!!

OMG, I am sickened by this latest show of obvious hatred of us!!! Poor Bigley!!!!! I am sure they are coaching him what to say, now he's blasting Blair, saying Blair doesn't care about him, when the first video, he was begging Blair for his life. He knows Blair ain't gonna do shit, never intended to. And he must know that the terrorists have no intention of letting him go either.

What an awful predicament for any human being to be in...except of course, only if it could be Zarqawi or any of his men. I would watch one of THEIR beheadings, with popcorn and beer.

God help him.

Posted by: Laura at September 29, 2004 08:12 PM

28 Americans always try to put up a fight to the end I really believe they were drugged and thats also why I figure they would not let them say anything because you and I both know we would not be silent. You can certainly be drugged to be submissive and still have a certain amount of movement. These animals knew their actions would only make us stronger as for the Brits well they are soft lets face it. They haven't got the stomach for the long haul. I hate seeing these men, women, die in that stinking land but now is not the time to be politically correct and soft. I read somewhere that these a**holes have said we are soft and filled with too much P C and will cave in, they must have been smokin' crack as that is not the USA. We will stick it up their butts with a big bomb and they can see how that feels. Back in WW1 and WW2 there was no polictical correctness we just bombed their ass to hell and I wish we could do that now as that would end this crap. I really don't care if theor innocent people die that is the way it us in war. We have no idea who "really" is one the good side. Those snakes in the grass say the want to help and be with the US and turn around and help these bastards....

Posted by: mugwhibaby at September 29, 2004 08:18 PM

29 Americans always try to put up a fight to the end I really believe they were drugged and thats also why I figure they would not let them say anything because you and I both know we would not be silent. You can certainly be drugged to be submissive and still have a certain amount of movement. These animals knew their actions would only make us stronger as for the Brits well they are soft lets face it. They haven't got the stomach for the long haul. I hate seeing these men, women, die in that stinking land but now is not the time to be politically correct and soft. I read somewhere that these a**holes have said we are soft and filled with too much P C and will cave in, they must have been smokin' crack as that is not the USA. We will stick it up their butts with a big bomb and they can see how that feels. Back in WW1 and WW2 there was no polictical correctness we just bombed their ass to hell and I wish we could do that now as that would end this crap. I really don't care if their innocent people die that is the way it us in war. We have no idea who "really" is one the good side. Those snakes in the grass say the want to help and be with the US and turn around and help these bastards....

Posted by: mugwhibaby at September 29, 2004 08:19 PM

30 I read that these videos were selling out in the markets of bagdad so that means these people we are trying to help are buying them. So these sick murderers are making a profit off these beheadings, getting more money for more weapons. That is past being sick it is insanity to the ninth power, so I wonder about these "muslims" and their God and those beliefs, screw their Allah and their way of life. I say bomb their ass to hell so they can continue to live in their rock huts. I don't understand why we have people over there to help rebuild, hell they have millions that are out of work, they know how to build rock huts let them rebuild. We should bring everyone that is not military out, screw them they can fix their own crappy lives, roads and outhouses. Then they only have our ass kicking armies to deal with.

Posted by: mugwhibaby at September 29, 2004 08:38 PM

31 You know, I could swear I'm bipolar I keep swinging from one train of thought to another...hehehe..one minute, I'm thinking rationally, the next minute I say to hell with it, fuck them all.

And I still lean on that last way of thinking, strictly because I think you're right, mug, that they hate us, and now they're buying up the videos, wny help them? Why are we so compassionate and reach out to help others when we have our own to help right HERE, for chrissakes???? OIL, my ASS. There are plenty of places, including Alaska, where we can get oil, it's NOT all about oil, or even Bush's need to be a hero, or whatever.

Remember, it's not BUSH killing these people, whether or not we invaded Iraq is beyond us now, the question is where do we go from here??? Get the fuck out, get the fuck out....and let them go fuck themselves and their assbackward country.

That's it, I'm going to bed.

Posted by: Laura at September 29, 2004 08:48 PM

32 Nite Laura, I think Rusty has basically this discussion under another topic.
~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 09:20 PM

33 They were most likely drugged or already dead, depending upon which of the almost 40 videos you look at; they were definitely tied to a point where they could not move and since video was usually shut off and on again, one is never sure but I believe a mixture of everything. Like the Korean, he was either already dead or very, very drugged when his time came since he was so vocal and hysterical beforehand.

And in a way, all those that came before you guys all kind of agreed in a way, so with my hot cocoa, I toast you all. They arrested the head of Iraqi's National Guard the other day - he was working with the terrorists. And you don't see anyone assassinating or turning in Al Sadr either who is a thorn in the American and British Forces since last April. The soldiers are working hard at destroying all possible hideouts but without the Iraqi help, only DNA will prove we have the bastards. Like I said, I'd like to see a big rocket go right through Zarqawi's body so he can see his infamous Allah faster than some for this is one sick mother. Death is too easy, too simple for a man/animal like him.

Right now, we should emotionally support the family of any hostage and pray for their souls. I hate to say this again, but they knew what they were getting into when they went to Iraq. They had to sign forms noting that fact and could not hold anyone liable if anything happened to them. That's why they made the big bucks and I mean BIG BUCKS. Still, that is no excuse for Zarqawi or any other radical islamist who goes about killing - including the radical islamic checken terrorists who took over the Beslan school in Russia.

Zarqawi himself is very computer savvy and normally he can put together a propaganda film like no other and upload it via sattelite. Maybe through the bombings, he's lost his ability to make and upload as he'd like so he's using other sources. Either way, we are giving them theatre and they know it - don't think they don't; I'm sure he knows exactly what is being posted on blogs, that's why anytime you come across a site, you should report it to the Feds and let them take care of it. I don't know how he gets some of his material but I do know from journalists and reporters that have talked with and lived through interviews with these people that they have everything and I mean everything. They plan everything, they videotape it. They even videotape a guy leaving his family, saying goodbye, for they'll all go to Paradise for what he's about to do, then they videotape him getting in a car and you can see the bombs there and he attaches himself to it. Then the next scene will be further away as someone is videotaping the vehicle blast.

One regular, some time ago, said that maybe there should be a curfew with no vehicles on the road except coalition. I have to go along with that - for it would cost less death and the writer was correct in saying you can't stick that many sticks up a donkey's butt. Unfortunately, it's not up to us anymore, it's up to the Iraqi Governing Council whom they keep trying to kill.

What the coalition wants, is for elections to be held in January and the IGC is going to want to take over from there. Since it was turned over to their hands, all we can do is what they ask us to do. I know our soldiers would give just about anything to blow the whole place up, because you're right, they can rebuild themselves. They should protect their oil lines which is their only hope for food and other articles they do not have there and cannot grow there. As it is, the northern oil line that got blasted again, they've hooked to Turkey and it's now flowing through Turkey; the rest are still destroyed. People can teach them how to build waste treatment, water treatment and the other things they need. Right now, our soldiers need things too and those people are being attacked. Those bringing goods to our boys are being attacked; those that go there to help in a humanitarian way are also being attacked and I keep waiting for the normal everyday Iraqi to stand up against these terrorists who are destroying their country, their infrastructure, their possibility of a decent life and I say put all these guys to work. You're always going to have others than the military there to meet those needs. The Turkish trucking company has pulled out several times but each time they do, the hostages they are doing it for end up dead. There are still a lot of unanswered questions.

About WMD's, the capability was there. Saddam himself was one - literally and figuratively. That psycho still thinks he's the President of Iraq and that his laws apply, not the country's, not the new laws: he still thinks he's the law. Now he's begging for mercy. Mercy? What the hell for? What right does he have for any mercy at all? The man had no mercy for the person he put in power years ago, had no mercy for him when he ordered him shot and took over himself. He had no mercy for his own people, didn't even give his own people all those stockpiles of oil for food. They haven't checked every square inch of the country but they have found much more than millions of mass graves.

He did sell much of what he had to Syria and they have indeed found stuff there. He was a danger. Between trying to make the "Mideast Roadmap to Peace" and stabilizing the area, was one huge reason why the world went to war in Iraq. There's more there, more than we know, or where else would they get so many weapons besides Iran? who didn't even want to let us in when they had that horrible earthquake that killed so many people but eventually they caved in. If we had waited for the UN, we'd be waiting as much as the poor black people of Darfur where genocide is happening and Sudan is denying it still with all the proof at hand. The UN sucks; there is no use for them, for they are not fulfilling their charter. Time to get rid of them and get others in there or start a whole new Union with NATO at it's feet. Someone wrote the building should be bulldozed into it's nearest river. I wholeheartedly agree.

I didn't want to go to war, either, but one thing I will always do without question, is stand by my country, and the troops. That is really important - for their sake and ours. Putin has been fighting his own terrorist war and now has made public statements to the fact he is joining the global war on terrorism. Musharraf of Pakistan is doing the same thing. Whom he gets and whom he soldiers kill we may not always know about since he keeps things so close to the vest. The Philipines have been fighting Al Qaida terrorism for years; it takes up about 3/4's the country but they lost their shot at help when they pulled out their 51 troops. But they still have over 4000 people working there and more who want to go but their country won't let them. Italy refuses to give into terrorism (that's questionable now); South Korea just sent thousands of new troops - even El Salvador who have been threatened as has the Netherlands and Italy by a group calling themselves "The Mohammed Otta Martyr's Brigade" have recently sent troops.

There is a good possibility that special elite troops may stay in Iraq for awhile after their elections and it's also possible that many may come home if that is what the Iraqi's want and vote upon. No one knows for sure. I was quite impressed with Allawi, the Interim Prime Minister for Iraq when he was here and went in front of Congress to give a speech and to give his thanks. I'm only sorry that afterwards, so many people had to tear him down. There's no excuse for that happening. He knows every loss is unbearable but he still thanked the Congress, who VOTED FOR the war and us American's for standing behind them. Bush says we'll be there for as long as we are needed and it'll be up to the Iraqi's to make that decision in January.

But I've said all along that it is vitally important for the people of Iraq to stand up against these terrorists. Once they truly do, standing behind them is what we should do.

But every country, every person, every religion, has to stand up against global terrorism. As long as we do that together, we can beat them and end what our new reality of today is - and it'll probably get worse probably before it gets better, but it can be done. Other countries, that are dangerous, also have to tow the line. ie Iran, Syria, North Korea, Checknya and other places like that and keep it from reaching our soil again.

I think I am one who is getting "terrorism fatigue" but I sure as shit do not want it on our soil again, don't think I can handle that pain again. It's still painful. We always need to be on the offensive.

And yes, we could use our troops at home. We could use them to help rebuild Florida and other states that need it desperately from those devastating hurricanes.

Try to remember there is not a soldier over there who does not believe in what he or she is doing and they do believe they are doing so for our freedoms - including the freedoms of having blogs like this one. There are good things, too - such as Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Prayer Shield, Operation Adopt a Soldier, and many, many others. Most of them are deathly afraid of having Kerry as Commander-in-chief and they are not afraid to say so. So no matter how you may feel about war or this war, the war on terrorism is everyone's responsibility and please do not forget that every one of our soldiers are heroes and should always be seen in that light, whether you agree or disagree about the war. Do not bring their morale down; they can't afford it. Go to the Walk of Honor and donate money in a soldier's name, past or present, dead or alive. Always give them what they need: our support, our love and our thanks.

Pray for them and pray for the souls of all hostages taken and/or killed by these murderous monsters who are not even human beings. Let's just hope they get to Paradise and find out it's not what they think it is....they are the scum of the earth and they need to be wiped out - by all of us.

Let those who have already died, rest in peace. Let their families find some closure. Let the terrorists meet Allah face to face quickly and pray that the propaganda films, including those of danny pearl and Paul Johnson, not bring in anymore psychos.

Maybe we should consider not even giving them theatre.

Nite for now. Thanks, Rusty.
~Cindy

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 29, 2004 10:45 PM

34 I just felt he need to say this..There CAN BE NO NEGOTIATIONS!! Regardless on how anyone feels about the Iraq invasion..it happened..If we release the women or anything else they ask us to do, MAYBE it will save Bigley..but then they know they have found our weekness..and they will keep doing this even more because they will believe it is working..I have to say..I was happy to hear the 2 italian women were released but after finding out about the ransom..Doesn't that mean they just funded terrorism?? Now they have more money..for guns, man power and anything else they want. They are showing these videos of Bigley to show us him as a human being. Now if they do behead him and post the video on the net..it will have an even greater impact..because we saw this man begging and pleading for his life. This is a sad situation..but it is also a no win situation. If we give in..they win..AND THEY WILL KEEP DOING THIS..if we don't give in an innocent man dies..ALL I can say is Mr. Bigley and his family are in my prayers...and however this is going to end..I hope it ends soon...

Posted by: Brenda at September 29, 2004 11:09 PM

35 Those preaching hatred and vilifying other humans on the basis of their faith are no better than those holding Mr Bigley. Worse in fact, as they have had the benefit of hundreds of years of democracy to learn how to protest and elect new representatives when those in power act contrary to their beliefs.

The Iraqi people have never had this. They have been suppressed by tyranical dictators/ pseudo elected representatives, the removal of which has enabled terrorists to find sanctuary in Iraq and to promise the people freedom from the western terrorist bombers, who promised freedom but didnt deliver.

We need an exit strategy, we need to retain our christian behaviours and attitudes, and we need to remember that for all nations who have democracy, it was hard won, and is responsive to local needs. We cannot impose our brand of democracy on a nation which hasnt fought for it or found it for itself. Peace be with all of us. God be with Mr Bigley.

Posted by: trinny at September 30, 2004 05:35 AM

36 Cindy, you said my discussion is on another thread? Can you point my butt in the right direction then? What happened to the heated discussions we had on the Armstrong blog? Rusty ended it, and told us to continue on, but I'm lost now, so I'm ranting in here...hehe.

Hey, I read something in this morning's paper that they're denying they paid the ransom (Italy is).

WTF?





Posted by: Laura at September 30, 2004 08:26 AM

37 Rusty ended what? I don't know what you mean?

See any news today? See how many kidnapped today? See how many blasts today? See how many dead today? See how many soldiers killed today?
Not good.

and it's the first debate - why do you think all this action is going on over there?

~C

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 30, 2004 11:08 AM

38 C,

Rusty ended the forum and continued it somewhere else, thus, the Armstrong beheading link's gone, isn't it? Where we were all talking when I first joined the blog.

Oh well. Yes, I've certainly read my paper this a.m. Poor kids, poor soldiers.

Lest anyone forget though, when you think of innocent victims, think of the "innocent" civilians that were cheering in the streets and passing out candy to the kids (who, by the way, were also cheering) when news of the twin towers' destruction spread.

I know, I know, they're not from Iraq, but Mid East, none the less, so I fail to see the difference.

Incidentally, did you read the quote of Bigley's??? "My captors don't want to kill me"...if that was not propaganda shit fed to him, I don't know what is! If they don't want to kill him, then let his ass go. This is taking it to the extreme, letting this draw out the way it has...poor bastard!!

Have a nice day. Yeah, right.

Posted by: Laura at September 30, 2004 12:10 PM

39 Laura,

Look at the post - Rusty didn't write that, I did. At the end, I said "Thanks, Rusty" and that meant, thanks, Rusty for letting me blathering all over the place. The post on Armstrong hasn't changed; there's just no news. I covered lots of stuff but I'd be there all night if I were to cover everything.

Cindy

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 30, 2004 01:07 PM

40 OHHH, DUH, should have saw the punctuation ;-)

Just getting used to this place....I see new news pops up everywhere, and there are comments places to post new messages. Too bad we didn't have one big BLOG to put all our comments on.

Ah well.

Take care.

Posted by: Laura at September 30, 2004 03:22 PM

41 Hello Mugwhi Baby.. (you said Quote) AS FOR THE BRITS, WELL THEY ARE SOFT, LETS FACE IT. THEY HAVE'NT GOT THE STOMACH FOR THE LONG HAUL. (end quote)

Do you have a point of reference for this notion please?

Much obliged, J.

Posted by: jon at September 30, 2004 07:03 PM

42 I know this view has been expressed by several Islamic speakers and they have been highlighted in the British Press as speaking the words of the devil but I am afraid it is true.

Ken Bigley and the two Americans were out there as engineers building bases for the Allied Forces.

As such, they were part of the "war effort". Without the bases to fight from and plan their attacks, their efforts would be less successful.

The engineers must have realised what they were doing and the danger they placed themselves in when they were offered such lucrative contracts and Ken Bigley even said that he would do this "one last job then retire".

Of course, I feel desperately sorry for Armstrong and Hensley and their families - no one deserves to die in such a way and have their dying moments broadcast for all the world to see - but they were not merely innocent civilians passing through.

I also feel desperately sorry for Ken Bigley and I have been avidly scanning every news source I can find to read the latest on his situation.

He knows his life is on the line and he is surely saying half of the stuff he is saying because he knows to say anything different would mean instant death.

The problem now is that this man, by saving his own skin (100% understandable) is undermining the entire war effort from the view-point of the UK.

Zarqawi knows this and that is why the poor bastard is being kept alive.

Like the US, the UK is fast approaching an Election and much emphasis is being placed on Iraq.

The Government would like the election to be fought on things nearer to home such as Health, Employment, Crime etc. But this situation in Iraq just won't go away.

As Bigley pours his heart out for the world, it has become "personalised". Had they just killed Bigley on day one, it would have been a case of "British Hostage Killed"... a day in the papers and forgotten. (sad but true)

Now we know about his ailing mother, his devoted wife, his numerous brothers, one of who has clocked up more air-time on British TV than Blair himself it seems.

And the British Press lap it all up.

Ken Bigley is obviously being misled by his captors on many things, in the latest video, he says, "Tony Blair says he is negotiating but he is LYING!!!".

Tony Blair has said from the very outset that there will be no negotiations. Everyone in the UK knows that.

This makes Ken Bigley's pleas all the more pitiful and bound to get the heart-strings breaking for those undecided on this whole issue.

Fanciful but what I would like to see is a concentrated blanket refusal to show any further broadcasts put out by Al-Jazeera on UK or US television.

Websites which claim to be on the side of the Western Allies could serve their forces much better by also refusing to host these videos.

All of these sites recognise that these videos are mere propoganda so why propogate it further?

Do we really need to see another video from Ken Bigley begging for his life? Do we really need to see another man being beheaded?



Posted by: Red Devil at October 01, 2004 06:27 PM

43 Interesting news today that Bigley might in fact not be in as much trouble as people are claiming and that in fact the whole thing might be a set up.....also the two Italian ladies are beginning to sound like recruiters for the terrorists and people are asking if they too are part of a set up so called hostage situation.....

IF this is the case then all concerned will have harmed the Iraqi people even more.....let us see how things turn out.

Posted by: dave t at October 02, 2004 02:26 PM

44 To make matters worse, I even read a statement somewhere, saying that one of the Italian hostages said, even though she was relieved to be alive, she would LIKE TO GO TO IRAQ AGAIN SOMEDAY.

What is she, fucking nuts or what? Are these people fucking narcissist or whatever you call it?

I can see getting caught once, but a second time? NO WAY. Also I still think that Hensley, Armstrong and Bigley were innocent civilians. Yes, they might have been working on projects that may have been for the "war effort"but they weren't soldiers, they weren't killing anyone, or intended to harm anyone. They were just doing their jobs, "My job consists of building and furnishing camps at Taji base"...each one was quoted as saying, on the first video.

Letting Bigly's dilemma drag on and on is disheartening and disillusioning, to say the least. They are not "sparing" him, they are just delaying the inevitable. Quite frankly, I would'v rather died the first day, then suffer every day, as he is doing.

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