American Hostage Eugene Armstrong Beheaded on Video

Links to Eugene Armstrong beheading video and images from the video are below. Scroll Down

UPDATE 10/08: Kenneth Bigley executed in Iraq by Zarqawi terrorist organization. The story is developing, but sources in Fallujah claim Bigley beheaded. For the latest information, links to video, and images on the Kenneth Bigley murder please go to the MAIN PAGE or by CLICKING HERE for the 10/08 report.

UPDATE: 10/02: For the latest information, links to video, and images on hostages in Iraq please check the main page by CLICKING HERE.

Here is a list of all the victims of Islamic Beheadings since late July this year.

10/08 Kenneth Bigley Executed in Iraq Images and Video Here.
10/02 Iraqi Victim Barie Nafie Dawoud Ibrahim Beheading Video and Images Here
9/22 American Hostage Jack Hensley Beheading Video and Images Here
9/20 American Hostage Eugene Armstrong Beheaded on Video Here
9/13 Turkish Hostage Beheaded on Video Here
9/08 Three Muslim 'Informants' Beheaded by the Religion of Irony
8/31 12 Nepalese Hostages Killed, 1 Beheaded Here
8/26 Italian Hostage Enzo Baldoni Murdered Here
8/25 Alleged CIA Agent Beheaded in Video Here
8/13 Another Alleged CIA Agent Beheaded on Video Here
8/11 CIA Agent Executed: Another Beheading Video
8/09 Another Bulgarian Beheading Video
8/02 Turkish Hostage Murdered
7/28 Bulgarian Beheading Video
7/27 Kashmir Rebels Bomb Hospital, Behead Three
7/27 Paul Johnson Beheading Video and Images Here

American Hostage Eugene Armstrong has been beheaded in a new video released by the Army of Ansar al Sunna, a group with links to al Qaeda and head by Abu Musab al Zarqawi. I have the video. Still images from the video are in the extended entry.

Criticial UPDATE 9/21: The second American hostage, Jack Hensley, has been executed. Updates to this will be posted here.

I am sick. I am in tears. I am enraged. God, strike down these sick bastards!!! Lord, where is justice?? In the video Eugene Armstrong can be heard screaming in agony. What kind of monters do this?? Fox:

One of the American hostages kidnapped last week in Iraq has been beheaded by the Al Qaeda-linked group of Jordanian terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, according to a Web site

The statement, posted Monday by a Web site contributor who has put up past statements signed in the name of Tawhid and Jihad, couldn't be confirmed.

It said that al-Zarqawi, "God protect him, has beheaded the first American. The group will next behead the others." The site said a video of the killing would be posted later.

Expect Updates.

UPDATE: NEIN is hosting the video. It can be downloaded here, but this is one of the most awful things I have ever seen. While Zarqawis goons read a statement you can see Eugene Armstrong muttering something over and over. A prayer perhaps? The fact that the victim is an American makes me sick and angry. I was angered by all the other videos, but I have not felt like this since Paul Johnson.

Images from the video. Graphic images are in the extended entry.

title.gif armstrong1.jpg

This next photo is from Zarqawi's website and is from last week's attack on a US Bradley fighting vehicle. As a refresher, a number of "innocent civillians" along with a Palestinian journalist who "just happened" to be at the scene were killed when the US opened fire on the car swarm.


Hat tip: Cindy

UPDATE: Eugene Armstrong's body found near mosque.

UPDATE: Blogs of War has this translation from the video:"Oh, you Christian dog Bush, stop your arrogance … the mujahideen will give America a taste of the degradation you have inflicted on the Iraqi people,” Right, this has nothing to do with religion.

A lot of blog coverage on this: Diggers Realm, Right on Red, Jane, M.H. King, Michelle, Slant Point, Kevin Aylward, John Little, Interested Participant, Chad Evans, Sparse Matrix, James Joyner

Continue to images at your own risk!!!!












Posted by: Rusty at 02:29 PM


1 Noooooooooooo!!!!!!
I really hope FOX is wrong.

Posted by: Jane at September 20, 2004 02:43 PM


Posted by: Joe Mama at September 20, 2004 02:52 PM

3 They're not wrong, Jane.

Now you have me crying, Rusty. Before I was just so enraged, I didn't know how to put it into words to you, but now I'm sobbing and it did remind me so much of Paul Johnson's propaganda film. They purposely didn't yell or sing or praise Allah at the end just so we could hear this man's torture. IT'S WAY PAST TIME FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO STAND UP AND STRIKE THESE PEOPLE DOWN DEAD AND STOP THIS SENSELESS SLAUGHTER. Now I'm sobbing.


Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 20, 2004 03:17 PM

4 President Bush wanted to hunt the terrorists in Iraq ... we see his policies are killing so many of them they are crippled to the point of attacking no one. We voted for a government so we have to put up with what happens to us ... this should be a lesson to us never to follow a politician from either side of the aisle down roads we can't see the end of. One day we will learn from our mistakes: Vietnam, Colombia, Lebanon, Somalia ... getting stuck in hell holes where the people dont want to lift themselves by their boot straps.

Posted by: Salamander at September 20, 2004 03:24 PM

5 Salamander, you numbskull. It is the terrorists that are killing our men, not President Bush or his policies. How can you stoop to such a low? As my readers can attest, I am no big fan of the occupation but invading Iraq was the right thing to do.

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 03:33 PM

6 I'm freaking out. I looked. I'm going to faint. Forgive me if I keep checking back with meaningless comments untill my husband gets home.

Posted by: Jane at September 20, 2004 03:51 PM

7 Like it or not the fact is simple Saddam was killing off parts of his population for a reason. At the same time controlling the religious freedoms for those who did not show the capability to use their brains for anything other than chaos. He kept sanity in a country that we allowed for decades to fester ... suddenly one president feels that he has been empowered by some higher intellect to "save" those Iraqi's being "attacked" by Saddam. Thats what you call being stunning and singularly full of bull shit. Saddam was doing the dirty work for what we dont have the stomach or soft skin to deal with.
Also if it was the current pack of wolves (versus the preceding pack of jackels and morons) that decided Iraq was full of terrorists how come we didnt hear shit fromt hem for years and then they suddenly pop up out of nowhere? simple we gave them the chance to rear their ugly heads.

Posted by: Salamander at September 20, 2004 03:51 PM

8 So that's President Bush under the black hood there eh Salamander?

I'm with Cindy on this one, the Iraqi's need to step up and start doing something or they're going to lose our support. The American people won't give up on someone they see trying their hardest and giving a damn, but nothing I see in the majority of Iraqi's show me they give a crap.

Their people are being blown up by car bombs, delivered by outsiders and they do nothing. The good news I have heard regarding the Iraqi army is when we set things up and then at the end we kinda nudge them in the back to take a step forward and take the credit so it looks like something good is happening.

I'm not saying that there's no good happening in Iraq, I just question if it is being done by Iraqi's or via our welfare.

I feel for Eugene Armstrongs family and hope he didn't die in vain.

Posted by: Digger at September 20, 2004 03:51 PM

9 Just like we stuck around for the South Vietnamese, Hmong People, Lebonese, and Angolans.

Posted by: salamander at September 20, 2004 03:55 PM

10 Salamander,
You actually make a very good point, just as long as you don't make 'the policy' the scapegoat for the terrorists. I think you're actually right. Saddam Hussein brutally supressed this kind of behavior. Now it is our turn. Let the carpet bombing of Fallujah begin. Also, don't blame me (ie, "we") for abandoning our proxy armies in SV and other places. Blame that dickhead John Kerry.

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 03:59 PM

11 By broadcasting this video you are playing into the hands of the terrorists. And I agree with the previous poster Bush's policy of invading Iraq is leading to these American deaths. You and your Republican counterparts keep saying it was the right thing to do but you never say exactly what is so right about it. Saving us from WMDs? Nope, they didn't have any. I bet if Bill Clinton had done this you would be screaming at the top of your lungs against the war. You are a typical Republican, you agree with anything the party does at all costs. That makes people like you very dangerous and very Un-American.

Posted by: Tony at September 20, 2004 03:59 PM

12 This will be another war some government with paper pushing beraucrap's fight with the blood of our poor while their son's and daughter's get preferential treatment on our tax dollars ...

The sad part we will see the same thing happen when Iran killed their middle class by hanging 20 at a time from construction cranes ... death and destruction of the thinkers and the rise of the reptilian survivalists.

Posted by: Salamander at September 20, 2004 04:00 PM

13 Man, Salamander, you are way off base.

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 20, 2004 04:01 PM

14 Ok peeps, defend my honor!!

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 04:03 PM

15 ha ha - I tried. :-)

This other picture I have saved - the one here with the burning Bradley; I could not believe someone stood there with that flag. I sure hope when the troops shot it with missiles, they got the bastards holding the damn flag, too.

I am really dreading what's to come from these people. I'm not sure how much more of that savagery I can handle.

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 20, 2004 04:08 PM

16 I blame not just by party lines I blame us ("we" ) for voting for ANYONE from ANY PARTY for voting for any one who follows the false rightous views of "we are a higher power" ...

We should show those videos so we gain hatered for those who perpetrate crimes .....

Posted by: salamander at September 20, 2004 04:08 PM

17 Salamander,
If you are implying that we, the victims, are responsible for what the terrorists do then please begin posting at Democratic Underground where you will find a more receptive audience.

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 04:13 PM

18 Guys,
Is is why our President went to war in Iraq and war is ugly. But, we are taking the fight over there instead of our US shores. Think about what you are saying here--we made the right choice for this War and what the media is saying that there are no connections with Iraq and with terrorist is simply wrong....right here are the terrorists and right here, In Iraq, our President will lead us to victory. Question: do you want this to happen here in the US or over there?

My prayers go out to the Armstrong family and may God confront them. And, for once, stand behind our President guys...yes, we declared War on Iraq and it's a tough fight, but going against our troops here is the wrong thing and concetrating on bringing this scums to justice is our #1 goal---Kill The Terrorist before they try to kill us in the US. Pray for the family!!!

Posted by: Frodaddy at September 20, 2004 04:35 PM

19 I watched the Nick Berg video. I don't need to watch this one. The Nick Berg video made me think we should pull ou of Iraq and the entire Middle East.

Then, when we are out, nuke it, starting with Mecca.

Why waste a billion bullets when we have all those nukes, ready to go.

Posted by: Mr. K at September 20, 2004 04:38 PM

20 Think about it guys would Armstrong have been kidnapped if we "The United States Military" wasnt over there? I think we should leave them alone and let them kill each other off and stop giving them a different reason killing us. Before we went over there to get Sadam they were killing each other why should the U.S. with all our problems get involved im sorry but we have to much over here to work at and we need to stop getting further in debt, for people who cant even see that we are trying to help they DO NOT want a change and its been that way for hundreds of years. I say again let them fight each other and keep our nose a little closer to home.

Posted by: joe at September 20, 2004 04:41 PM

21 Amen Rusty!

Gee, you not only get hate email but idiotic hate posts ie Salamander and Tony. How can people be so obtuse?

Anyway, our thoughts and prayers should be going out to this man and his family, wherever they are and to the two other men who were being held hostage with him. If they are still alive, I can't imagine what kind of state they are in right now knowing what is coming. Notice how these cowards pick up on innocent people and Iraqi people and always have those damn black face masks on?

I remember when President Bush found out when Paul Johnson was beheaded. He was going to Air Force One after a visit and speech and as he was walking towards the plane, someone came running up to him and whispered something in his ear. Of course, the President's pool was there. He was so angry and did not have time to collect his thoughts. He turned towards the cameras, turned away, turned back, turned away, turned back again and said "There is absolutely no excuse for that!" turned away, walked a few steps, turned back to the press, just shook his head and walked into the plane. WOW. He was so angry, it was like he was spitting blood. Most of the press didn't even know what he was talking about until a few minutes later. But I'll never forget his reaction. Hating these monsters, hating these terrorists, being disgusted by what they do and how they do it, is not republican or democrat, you twits! It's being human.

Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 20, 2004 04:42 PM

22 There are things to change in this world. Lots!
By invading Iraq we have created another thing to change. Work starts here. there were no scripted actors in Michael Moore's latest film. Poor people fight our wars and rich people get signifgant tax cuts. The money to that assist these poor. It is wrong. No denying that. We Americans believe that we are a great superpower, like Rome before us. Like Rome before us. Like rome before us. Remember history and remeber that life and the world are cyclical.

Posted by: nicholas at September 20, 2004 04:42 PM

23 Pulling out of Iraq is also the wrong thing to do right now. Better yet, the worst thing we could do right now. Stay the course guys...Freedom will ring over there. For once in your lifes, stand up for our Troops!

And, for the terrorist who committed this horrible act---your day is coming and I can't wait!!! For those who watched the videos of Armstrong and Berg being you see that we are in a War of survival? Look what happened in Russia two weeks ago---if we don't take care of business right now over in the Middle East, this will come to our shores and into our public schools. This is not President Bush and for someone to blame this on our President is not where we need to go---THEY HIT US; WE DID NOT ASK FOR THIS; AND, WE WILL TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS. Stayed tuned...

Posted by: frodaddy at September 20, 2004 04:46 PM

24 ""fight with the blood of our poor while their son's and daughter's get preferential treatment""

Salamander, I guess you missed the memo. But then, after listening to you, I can see how.

Posted by: Dick at September 20, 2004 04:46 PM

25 Sorry im not through. How many Americans have been killed or injured since Bush took office. How many of their people have been killed and or injured because we are there. I bet more people than Sadam would have done himself over the last 4 years it started as soon as Bush took office and im not saying that Clinton didnt have anything to do with the 9-11 attack he admitts in his own book that when the election was taken place that they got word of something was in the works but refused to bring it up. Tell me why is my friends over fighting a war thats going to end up like vietnam we have been there long enough if we really wanted to win the war we would have sent one bomb to do the job and let them start over like Japan.

Posted by: joe at September 20, 2004 04:48 PM

26 I just have to answer that last one. Utter nonsense and stupidity. Why compare us to Rome? Why not any of the other great Empires? Why not the Chinese Empire which lasted for three thousand years? Or the Persian Empire which lasted the same? Damn, what do they teach in history these day? History is not cyclical, history is history precisely because it is in the past.

And no one believes Moore's film was scripted, but that is besides the point. Editing is the key to his type of propaganda. Al Jazeera does not 'script' their stories, but the context which they provide makes their news anti-american hate propaganda. Further, much of Moore's propaganda is just the truth mixed with lies. A little of both go a long way in duping people like you. Dude, you're an idiot writ large.

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 04:49 PM

27 Good post, Tony! Way to show you've managed to memorize all the lateast talkiong points from DU! Next step: Synthesis. Try it some time.

Let's review, boys and girls:

By broadcasting this video you are playing into the hands of the terrorists.

No, by responding to this video with anything but righteous wrath, the LEFT is playing into the hands of the terrorists.

And I agree with the previous poster Bush's policy of invading Iraq is leading to these American deaths. You and your Republican counterparts keep saying it was the right thing to do but you never say exactly what is so right about it.

Except when we point out that:
1. Hussein was in violation of the Cease Fire agreement from GW 1 by failing to comply with UN inspections.
2. Hussein was conducting campaigns of genocide against the Kurds, the Marsh Arabs, and the Shia.
3. Hussein was the head of a totalitarian regime that ruled by fear and intimidation, imprisoning, torturing and killing scores of thousands of Iraqis.

But I guess you didn't hear us say any of that. the fingers in your ears and chant of "La la la I can't hear you" might explain that.

Saving us from WMDs? Nope, they didn't have any.

You're an idiot. Everyone in the world had reason to believe he did -- The UN thought he did, Russia thought he did, the CIA thought he did, British Intelligence thought he did, France thought he did, JOHN FORBES KERRY THOUGHT HE DID!!!!!!

I bet if Bill Clinton had done this you would be screaming at the top of your lungs against the war.

One word: Kosovo.

I supported it, even though I loathed Clinton. In retrospect, it wasn't the wisest choice, but I didn't

You are a typical Republican, you agree with anything the party does at all costs.

Straw Man, and a piss-poor one at that.

That makes people like you very dangerous and very Un-American.

Hello, Pot, I see you've met Mr. Kettle.

Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 04:50 PM

28 Thanks for the stills. I am now a witness to a savage murder by Allah's army of psycho killers

Posted by: dennisw at September 20, 2004 04:50 PM

29 Joe,
Keep our noses out of their business? THEY ATTACKED US HERE BUDDY! We did not ask for this, but they started it and we will finish it. Republican or Democrat, this is an attack on our survival and we will win this War.

Posted by: frodaddy at September 20, 2004 04:51 PM

30 Oh God. When I posted my comments, the comment screen came back showing all the pictures. I have no words to describe how revulsed I am. I'm with you on this one Rusty.

Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 04:55 PM

31 They attacked us? I seem to remember we were over there before they were over hear remember anything called GULF WAR? A war over OIL (MONEY in case you didnt know) and who was president then? So we were over there blowing there building up and killing there people bombing thought to be chemical factories. Other countries seem to hate us for one reason GREED, we are the only ones that are first to stick our asses where they dont belong. Think about how many countries do not like us.

Posted by: joe at September 20, 2004 04:58 PM

32 Maybe Milosevic was right. I am starting to think the entire planet needs cleansing.

But I am just venting. All my thanks to our armed forces. Once again, we are risking our best for the sake of the future of the entire world. Most Muslims don't know it, but we are fighting now in Iraq so that we don't have to nuke them all later.

But man. Watching the video will make you wish you could just press a button and...

Posted by: Mr. K at September 20, 2004 05:01 PM

33 I hate the bastards. That is the most atrocious thing I've ever seen, and it makes me sick to read people trying to justify these mongrels' actions.

I don't think what they're doing has anything to do with our president, but that they would be doing these terrible things to people anyways.

It also makes me sick to read the horrible things people say about our president. Honestly, I can't see Al Gore getting us through 911.

"The US Military", as joe put it, has freed people from violent rulers, and are getting them off to a new start. It's going to take a while, of course, but the future for these people is now a brighter one. Think about it... if we were under the kind of rule they were, none of us would be saying anything right now. We'd be looking over our shoulders and keeping our opinions to ourselves.

Posted by: Katie at September 20, 2004 05:01 PM

34 And I am sorry I do pray and hope our country does to for the families and other hostages that are over there. But when I watched that video it makes me sick. The world is screwed up and things do need to change but who says we are the ones that are suppost to do it? We have problems here in our homeland we are not perfect and our beliefs arent for everyone. please forgive me for sounding harsh i do feel for the families and other hostages.

Posted by: Joe at September 20, 2004 05:03 PM

35 I'm guessing most people against us fighting the terrorists "over there" haven't looked at the video or pics of any of these beheadings either, Brian. They don't understand the true scope of what we are fighting and that the people doing it would love to come over here and do the same thing, except on a grander scale.

Keep denying that these people want to kill us anti-war doves and one day it's going to end up affecting you somehow personally. It's a shame it will take that for you to realize the true horror of what's going on.

It's similar to the anti death penalty people, who all of the sudden change their mind when their loved one is killed.

Posted by: Digger at September 20, 2004 05:03 PM

36 Joe,
No, they invaded Kuwait and we pulled the Nations together, just like this War, except those Oil For Food Criminals like France, China and Russia, to go in and take care of business.

That's the problem with you Lefties---Halliburton, Oil, Bush is a War Criminal!!! Look at the true picture here and Iraq was a Country full of Terrorist and Saddam harbored them and gave them safe passage.

Posted by: frodaddy at September 20, 2004 05:03 PM

37 First - Thank you to the person or people who posted this video. You have to see a thing like this to realize what kind of savages we are dealing with in Iraq. I am so upset we could not recover this man before his gruesome end. Second - May God strike these *%&#) &^%$+ *()&% and their women and their children with 100 years of misery for every second Eugene Armstrong cried in pain. May they eat dirt until they vanish as a people from the face of the earth! Finally - why the &%*@ are we in this blasted hell hole of a country? I feel as helpless as the families of the kidnapped people must feel. What do you do when prayers are not enough? ... ANGRY AND SAD

Posted by: LMV at September 20, 2004 05:06 PM

38 Joe,
One more point...who cares what other Countries think about us...our President went against the grain, unlike your Kerry who will ask France or Germany for permission on everything, to protect the American People and for you to stay what do other Countries think? Earth to can't negoiate with terrorist.

Posted by: frodaddy at September 20, 2004 05:08 PM

39 One thing to say how many wars have we faught did we win? How many did we really make a difference, in the last 50 years. One off the top of my head Vietnam, I love and cherrish our military, I am so greatful that we have them but the ones over there are younger than my son. Makes me sad

Posted by: HATEIRAQ at September 20, 2004 05:11 PM

40 Just one question for any brainless leftist zombie who screams "No Blood for Oil1"

If it was all about gettign more oil, why the fuck didn't we just lift the embargo? No more sanctions, plenty of Iraqi oil would have started pumping. The Evil Bushitlercheneyhalliburtoneocon conspiracy gets all the oil we want for our sooperenviromentkillerSUV's, France gets to keep its ELF contract, Saddam gets to keep playing Shred the Dissident, and the left gets the absence of a war in Iraq, just like they wanted. Everyone's happy, right?

Is that really what you numbskulls think?


Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 05:11 PM

41 I curse these people! I beseech G*d to rain down hellfire on them and damn them for eternity!

Posted by: foreign devil at September 20, 2004 05:13 PM

42 i have just watched something that i cant beleive that these animals have done this im so so sorry that this has happened we must pull out just nuke there country this makes me racist vote blair and bush out or send them its another vietnam but even worse

Posted by: darren wales at September 20, 2004 05:16 PM

43 Darren,



Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 05:20 PM

44 America has my deepest sympathy, another innocent life lost to these savage cowards.

I say pull out the troops and let them have a good old-fashioned civil war.

May the best loser win.

Posted by: Del Boy at September 20, 2004 05:22 PM

45 ROP attacks again-what else is new? To me-there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Anyone who represents this evil religion deserves the worst. For the "moderate" ones, deportation would do. For the rest-a round of metal into their skulls at least.

Posted by: natalia at September 20, 2004 05:25 PM

46 I know its not very good to say this, but I think those people deserved Saddam.

Posted by: natalia at September 20, 2004 05:27 PM


Posted by: JOHN at September 20, 2004 05:35 PM

48 The first beheading I saw was Nick Berg's.
I felt sick to the deep of my soul...
I'm not watching this one but the still photos are enough...

I am not American. Only in heart, as we all are if we believe freedom is our main value, our main strenght...

My father, a couple of years ago - during the 1st Golf War- questioned the influence of the MSM on the modern war.. He was and remains convinced, and so do I now -that, were the WWII fought today the Allies would have lost.
Those who know their history, and were told of the gruesome tales of brave young soldiers beeing torn to pieces when arriving on the beaches of Normandie, realize that if we had seen those images live, 24/7 on our TVs, few would have though the sacrifice would be worth it...but it was!

What we are facing is clearly a test to our generation, to our way of life, but I believe that our capacity of sacrifice and suffering are the ones beeing trully tested.

Living in Europe I'm affraid I see no courage, no backbone, no spirit of sacrifice so needed in times of war- "WE are not at war!", they say -and it seems to me it will be too late when we face the "beast"....

I hope Mr. Bush doesn't withdraw of Irak, not now.
There is only one thing to do: WIN. Any other thing will mean defeat to the eyes of Al-Qaida. We will apear weak again. We will loose future alies, there is no way we can leave and not apear defeated!!

The temptation of leaving when we are confronted to those images is huge! But that is the point of those acts! Destroy our resolve. They know we are shocked when we see them, not because as they think we are weak, but because we are GOOD HUMAN BEINGS!

So cry, feel angry, scream, curse, send Mr. Bush or any politician you don't like to go fuck himself, but WIN. And give the finger to those Europussies! They deserve it and more!

(Sorry for the long rant, and for any englsh mistakes, I was (am) mad as hell.. and also very sad..if you think I went over the line, my apologies)

Thanks for keeping us on alert mode Rusty.
This Eurotrash girl values it.

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 05:41 PM

49 Where are the mushroom clouds? These fuckers want terror? I think a few kilotons will make them see the blinding light of vengeful justice.

Posted by: B52GUNR at September 20, 2004 05:48 PM

50 I just wanted to say to all of the folks doubting the presence of WMD's you're wrong. This being said from a person who has seen more than their share of time in the Middle East. I was in the tiny little island country of Bahrain, about 20 miles off the coast of Saudi. When you get there you realize tha with the amount of barren desert, it would be very easy to hide the contraband we went in ther seeking. For cryin' out loud, we were uncovering MiG 29's and other aircraft from beneath the sand, so look at how easy it would be to stash some 55 gallon drums of chemicals over a period of years. And that's not accounting for the fact that many of those WMD's found their way into Syria and Iran. I know that Iraq and Iran were never the best of friends, but they both have a common enemy in the United States. The old saying "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" certainly holds true in this instance. As for President Bush, we all have our quirks, but all I can say is that I'm glad that Al Gore didn't win the electoral vote in 2000. I just wish that Bush would quit trying to be so sensitive to the feeling of the rest of the Arab world and start laying down the law over there. Then and only then will those people and the new Iraqi government be able to work toward true legitimacy.

Posted by: dman at September 20, 2004 05:50 PM

51 What a bunch of savages/that video is horrifying!
God rest his soul.
These animals don't deserve to live.
I sincerely wish I could take a nice big American fast food dump down their mighty allah's throat, with my excrement running out of his mouth/right in front of all of those angry losers.
May they all rot very slowly in a burning hell. For that is surely where they will end up.

Posted by: ted at September 20, 2004 05:54 PM

52 i just posted a comment that made no sense i am sickened by this so much!
why have we got these people out there bring them back let them build there own country back up, i have no sympathy for iraq or there people they need to be left to rot in there own mess send saddam back and then nuke them.
my prayers are with the familys of all these hostages

Posted by: darren at September 20, 2004 05:55 PM

53 let loose the dogs of war...

Posted by: jack at September 20, 2004 05:59 PM

54 In war, people die - sometimes in ways much worse than this (although this is pretty bad). Even though this poor man is a civilian, he knew very well that he was placing himself in a situation that this sort of thing could happen – and it did happen. Personally, I very much blame the chaotic mess (and needless deaths) in Iraq on political placation of this war at home and abroad, which prevents the use of an overwhelming occupational force to squelch a rebellion that has the luxury of doing what it wants, when and how it wants. Our armed forces are stuck between enacting the sort of policies and actions needed to “truly occupy” a conquered county, and the political “main event” this has become to us at home, and the rest of the world. Bad things happen in war – they always have, and they always will…..its just we now have the internet to show us.

Posted by: John C. at September 20, 2004 06:03 PM

55 I just saw this at Belmont Club:

Yet if the road forward is dim, the line of retreat has long ago been cut off by Islamic fundamentalist terror itself. What can be the point of a return to America when they came to Manhattan? For good or ill, this thing will end with a defeat for one side and victory for the other. I did not say joy.

My point exactly. Win it or get defeated. No other way.

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 06:05 PM

56 Sweet Christ on a crutch...and now the assholes without a clue are joining in to blame Bush for the beheading and sputtering their nonsense that "if we weren't over there" nothing like this would have happened. Hello home town was bombed by these lowlives...not once but twice. The first World Trade Center bombing was when Clinton was in office and the second dropped both towers and killed a lot of my friends and acquaintances. Fuck it all, lets meet in an alley.


Posted by: Bob at September 20, 2004 06:11 PM

57 This will go on forever,,,, or until we get the hell out of there. These people don't want Walmart, our TV programs, our social values, or what our religion teaches us. Look at Israel,,, they have been going at it for over 50 years with no end in sight.

If not for oil bein there, Halliburton would not want us in there

Posted by: J Flagg at September 20, 2004 06:14 PM

58 so - John wants "the use of an overwhelming occupational force to squelch a rebellion" - reminds me of Vietnam for sure - we killed over 50,000 U.S. teenagers and young adults by managing to send an overwhelming occupational force. Did not work. Learn from the past - or be condemed to repeat.

John, war is indeed hell - you want to be so world-weary and wise about it - ever consider that the right position is to avoid war at all costs. Do you really think we needed to start a war in Iraq? Do you really think we can win it with a couple million more people invading? Why don't you volunteer for Iraq warfare instead of just blaming the political placation of people with opinions about preemptive war that differ from your own - oh oh, I guess you think we're all unpatriotic.
Hey Bob - meet in an alley - there's a solution - news flash Bob - these "lowlives" (nice) didn't bomb NY at all - they are different lowlives - as you in your alley would be a different low life ...

Posted by: robert at September 20, 2004 06:22 PM

59 you people are all brainwashed patriotic cunts. fucking get your people out of iraq and use your brains.

question authority, you pieces of shit. look at yourselves from the outside.

Posted by: I am the fire at your funeral at September 20, 2004 06:29 PM

60 I am sick to my stomach. i should never have watched this. Poor poor man. I cry and beseech God to smite these inhumans. I cry for my country, America, because we need to rise up together. We need to find these f+ckers and bring them to justice. I wish we could do the same to them, but it will never stop. The violence will continue because these people do not know LOVE. They are pathetic and are ruining it for most of the Iraquis. Yes, maybe we should let them all have civial unrest and leave, but the ones that will suffer are the weak. These ones doing the beheadings will remain strong. Eugene Armstrong will be a martyr for America.

Posted by: Ellen at September 20, 2004 06:30 PM

61 ever consider that the right position is to avoid war at all costs.

I considered that very philosophy once, and rejected it as indefensible and cowardly.

news flash Bob - these "lowlives" (nice) didn't bomb NY at all - they are different lowlives

You are so deluded, I don't even know where to begin. Sad.

as you in your alley would be a different low life ...

Ah, yes, anyone willing to take up arms is equally evil, regardless of why or against whom they take up arms. Nice bit of moral equivalency. You're wrong, by the way.

Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 06:34 PM

62 If the fire at my funeral is that dim, I'm gonna be disappointed.

Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 06:38 PM

63 in the end these men who are demons in human skin will stand before our lord Matthew 25 40-46 But these will go away into ever lasting punishment but the righteous into eternal life.

Posted by: Anthony at September 20, 2004 06:41 PM

64 Whats it going to take !
These people have no respect for life in the first place. The whole country isnt worth it,
its to late to turn back now. We need to stand behind our Men and Boys support the government
whether or not we want to be there. This War,
action or what ever you want to call it is far from over. Japan has never recovered from our wrath, maybe we should wake the rest of the world up. My sympathy to the families of this unfortunate man. ( Vengence is mine thus sayeth the Lord )

Posted by: Dave at September 20, 2004 06:41 PM

65 Mother of pearl... it is the Islamic war on the US, so cut the pandering excuses such as "these lowlifes weren't of the same faction" that dropped the Twin Towers.

Get your head out of your ass, and I don't see you emailing me for a nice sit down, cowardly frig. I made two trips to SE Asia and thought losing friends would be over with, until your poor muslim allies decided to come get us where we live.

Bob, 1st Mar Div, USMC retired

Posted by: Bob at September 20, 2004 06:46 PM

66 I understand how some of you get the willies at the sight of blood, and as expected, those who think this is all Bush's fault want to turn tail and cower in the presence of evil.

On the other hand, there are plenty of us out here who feel differently. Yes, our stomachs turn when we see this. But unlike you that's all that turns.

It's a sad hypocrisy when you live with the freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness but feel it's not good enough for anyone else because they weren't born within our borders. Killing these terrorists is precisely what we need to be doing. To compare our policies to their behavoir is repugnant. If everyone had welcomed the removal of Saddam which the huge majority favored, not another person would have died. The polar opposite to that is, if we did not kill another person in Iraq they would still try to kill as many Americans, Australians, Britons, Poles, Turkish, etc, etc, etc, as possible because as Zarqawi has said, it's their religious duty to do so.

In closing, if you don't have the stones to vote for Bush and get this disease 'cured', don't vote at all. Or at least vote for Nader which is basically the same as not voting. Read the Syrian Times, Assad urges all Syrian-Americans to vote for Kerry. Syria harbors terrorists, possibly Saddam's chemical weapons which they've been playing with in Darfur, Sudan. Read the Palestinians papers, Arafat has urged all Palestinian-Americans to vote for Kerry. No history of the self admitted terrorist Arafat is necessary. Kim Jong-Il of North Korea in the spring of this year said that a Kerry presidency would be welcomed by North Korea. The Mullahs in Iran have openly stated their support for Kerry in IRNA (Islamic Republic News Agency). All this can be verified, look it up. What does that tell you? They all hope for the destruction of America and they like Kerry. Nuff said.

Posted by: Russki02 at September 20, 2004 06:47 PM

67 It's Gods place to judge these men. It's our job to arrange the meeting.

Posted by: Russki02 at September 20, 2004 06:55 PM

68 My husband is 60 and Iam 57, we are ready to fight. Come on you Dove's don't you see you are the one's being protected by our President and our Troop's, because you think that these animal's can be talked to and reasoned with. Could it be you are hiding behind your Peace Symbol, or is it that you are too cowardly to stand up against these brutal barbarians? Where are all the American Islamics. Draft them and let them fight against their own. Quite feeding and clothing our incarcerated; give them those choice, go over and fight for someting noble, or rot in prison. Turn all those killer's, molester's and the likes on the bastards. Why should decent people continue to fight while all these bastards lay on their ass.

Nuke them, that will get them under control. God Bless our President. Kerry disgraced our Country once before and he will do it again.

Posted by: Louella at September 20, 2004 06:59 PM

69 ever consider that the right position is to avoid war at all costs.

Avoid war? Yes.
At ALL costs? No.
If they are willing to destroy everything you love, every pice of this world that has taken so much to build? That has cost so many lives already??
I refuse to go back to a time of darkness. I want my freedom of religion, my freedom of speech, MY FREEDOM, and as a woman I know what I would be given in a taliban world! A burka, a spouse I'd only see on my wedding day, and everyday rapes so I could give birth to some 12 kids to go and die for Allah!!
If the bastards want it,let them come and take it!!

Hey I'm a future air hostess, so I'm not just talking here. If one of these little twits entered my plane I wouldn't sit quiet.
I'm not American so I'm not pushing Bush or anything.
This is how I feel about these monsters!

If you don't agree too bad.
I feel no need to be PC!

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 07:02 PM

70 I saw the pictures and I feel the same as I did with the others.SICK and ANGRY.Remember the terrorists attacked us.REMEMBER!! Imagine terrorists in your own neighborhood kidnapping ones family member and executing them. Don't think it could happen,think again.

Posted by: larry at September 20, 2004 07:04 PM

71 Ooops, the previous post wasn't to Bob, a lovely guy I believe...but to Robert.

Sorry Bob!!!

It's one a.m. here. Insomnia...ha.

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 07:07 PM

72 Should GW Bush win this election, which I pray that he does, he then sits as a lame duck at that point. I hope that he, knowing that he doesn't have to worry about a re-election bid, decides it is time to quit fighting a politically correct war. One of the instances that I will point out is that Muqtada al-Sadr has been one of the driving forces behind a good majority of the insurgency in Iraq. We had this POS pinned, but did not take him out while we had the chance. When these morons start seeing us take out the big players, then they'll know that we mean business. I think GW Bush has been a great president, but if he's going to tout himself as a "say what I mean, mean what I say" kind of guy, he needs to start doing it in these kind of situations. The very nature of war is politically incorrect, so lets start running it like it is. In some aspects it is like Vietnam, in that it is not being ran the way the front line commanders would like it to be so that the enemy loses as many men as possible and our commanders keep as many men as possible. At this point, who cares whose toes we step on or who we offend.

Posted by: dman at September 20, 2004 07:08 PM

73 Bob:
Avoid war? Yes.
At ALL costs? No.


In all fairness, Robert said that, not Bob -- two different people.

But I agree with you.

Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 07:09 PM

74 “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
–Edmund Burke

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 07:10 PM

75 It is amazing to hear that soneone wants to kill in the name of their god.... It doesn't matter what the name for your Diety might be. I have read the book on Jesus the Christ. It seems pretty clear that Jesus does not want you to return hate for hate, killing for killing, an eye for an eye. To follow Jesus you must give up revenge and return to those that cause you harm,,, Love.

It seems pretty clear Jesus wants the other cheek turned. It might feel really good to you to have the hate burn in your soul, to follow the course of self gratification, and then ignore the 10 commandments in the name of Country or God,,,, but if you want to follow the teachings of the Christ your only armament is Love............

Sorry if you thought you could kill in the name of Jesus and be doing his work..... It is harder than that to be a follower of the New Testiment.

Posted by: jflagg at September 20, 2004 07:15 PM

76 I know Brian...

My mistake...I already made the correction.

I need sleep but these stories, plus a major report to deliver tomorow, are keeping me awake.

I'm listening to the Hewitt show.
He is saying something about Jimmy Carter.
If he talks about him I'm going to get really mad.
Really mad!!

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 07:16 PM

77 jflagg :

I'm not religious.

So... that turn the other cheek thing?
No way.
That Gahndi "non violent resistence" works great if its both ways or your facing an english army. For all their flaws they were civilized compared to the bastards we face today.

Go and talk like that to the jihadists. They'll laugh in your face and them send you to meet the creator.

If you want to do it go ahead. Good luck!

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 07:25 PM

78 I wish that ALL Americans could witness this horrific act for what it really is: An extreme act of inhumanity that does not reflect on the great majority of Muslims AND Middle Easterners.

This is an act of an extremist group. The fringes of the society. Misguided from birth against the Western ways, money, power and intolerance to genocide.

No we should not "nuke" this beautiful and vastly historic part of our world. Instead we need to realize the following:
1. This conflict IS being fought where it belongs; in the Middle East not on US soil.
Like previous World Wars, the US invaded, liberated, and protected and rebuilt. This could take a generation (i.e Germany and Korea).
2. Our ability to conduct war operations IS being affected by the need of our government to fight while defending its politics. This is difficult, as these people only understand force. Anything less is considered weakness and we can and are falling prey.
3. Gore/Kerry make no difference. Either way they would protect our shores through the irrevlant UN (the real bribed and coerced through Oil for Food kickbacs) and the unwilling Europeans.
4. This war WAS Legal. Sanctioned by UN resolutions, votes from the US Congress and over a decade of Saddam defiance. Bush did not lie, Saddam defied the world and paid.

Do not be misled.

Posted by: wja at September 20, 2004 07:27 PM

79 Sofia:

Many were killed by the "English" army. If you feel that there is a solution to be had by violence then the current course of action should make you very happy.

Just remember that there are those whose innocent families are being killed by our "Bombs of Freedom". They will feel the same way as many in the US do. Death from the sky will generate the same hatred against the US that many Americans feel toward any of Arab descent because of 9-11.

The difference is that they have been living in a state of horror, so they are less inclined to be quesy by the mode of death we are seeing. To them a beheading is normal. Carried out by the State in front of cheering crowds.

The only State to kill more in the name of the Law than the Saudis is our very own United States. So the killing will go on until the civilized country involved makes a change. The problem is that we get all excited about our revenge killing......

Those in the Middle East can continue this type of war for hundreds of years

Posted by: jflagg at September 20, 2004 07:41 PM

80 Rv:13:15: And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Mt:24:6: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
v:17:14: These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rv:19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Rv:22:12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Posted by: Dave at September 20, 2004 07:42 PM

81 I'd like to extend an apology to anyone offended by my inexcusable tirade in previous postings. Not as an excuse, but I'm laughing my ass off for finally having a flashback, although it was not funny at the time. My language and tone were indefensible, regardless of the provocation or feelings, so excuse an old jarhead for flipping.

Posted by: Bob at September 20, 2004 07:50 PM

82 Excuse me for being a bit English about this - Zarqawi does have one of our guys anyway so I don't speak from a typical unaffected outsiders view - but I agree with whoever said that airing these videos plays into the hands of the terrorists.

I watched it, and it sickened me, and it made me hate these terrorist bastards all the more as well... but I notice how a lot of Americans like to slander the Iraqi population at large for the actions of a few, mostly foreign, hardcore terrorists.

The author of this webpage did a similar thing himself earlier... he said something like 'Screw the chechens, they don't deserve a state' after the Beslan massacre. Statements like that imply that the most recent event is sufficient to base a judgment on, which is clearly bullshit to anyone who gives a damn about historical context.

Alls I'm saying is videos and terrorist spectacular events like this have a logical purpose - they make us scared. By airing these videos you are literally 'spreading the word' for Zarqawi and his mob, despite your heartfelt & explicitly expressed outrage at their actions.

I would rather read a lot of online newspapers & editorials (on both sides of the fence) and base my opinion on my collective skepticism of all of them; rather than allow myself to be influenced by propaganda such as you are screening.

Kenneth Bigley is a British man who was captured with Eugene Armstrong. Barring a miracle, I woefully expect a video of his execution will soon be released too - I IMPLORE YOU NOT TO SHOW IT AND NOT TO PLAY INTO THE HANDS OF FUCKING BASTARDS LIKE ZARQAWI.

Only selective information gathering - and not high impact propaganda - will help us to overcome homicidal idealogues like him.


London, England

Posted by: Martin at September 20, 2004 07:51 PM

83 To the poster above that has bought into the Michael Moore BS about our troops coming from the poor and uneducated: That is total crap. Anyone that has any association with military personnel knows that they're not poor and disadvantaged and uneducated and duped into serving. Yes there are poor people. Yes there are wealthy people that avoid serving. But our troops nowadays are anything but uneducated. They're some of the most intelligent people you'll ever meet and many if not most of them are in the military because they believe in something strongly. People like the Pro football player worth millions who joined up because he felt a strong sense of love for country. People like Moore and those who automatically buy into his propoganda without knowing firsthand what they're talking about insult our servicemen. That's my brother you're talking about and his friends and I know them well. Better than you and Moore do. They're not poor, they didn't come from poor families and most of them are extremely intelligent. Check your facts next time before you echo Mr. Moore.

Posted by: Mike at September 20, 2004 07:52 PM

84 It was horrible in fact, but I appreciate having the option to view the radical extremist islamic snuff film, so thank you to the sponsor of this site for offering it.

Can you (Brian B - you seem the avatar of this board and so sharp with your opinions) reassure that most of "hawks" posting here who share your viewpoint (like proud Marine Bob of the alley fighting) don't really want to eradicate the islamic religion but just fight back against the people who through their actions are surely the proactive enemy of the U.S. Can you, please?

And one other area of question - do you think the best use of military resources is launching the war in Iraq? Some here urge single-minded pursuit of the terrorist, an activity that seems tantamount to self-preservation and legitimate defense given actions like what happened in the U.S. on 9/11. But why not support all the Marine Bob type of people to find and defeat the terrorists, in a stealthy manner, with great energy and focus, and more cleverly than the obviously failing approach of nation-building in Iraq where the values of America and the West are unwelcome in the first place (as someone like J Flagg points out).

Finally, can you explain in a straighforward way why you like president Bush so much when he is obviously the leader who launched a doomed military campaign in Iraq (even though there were better ways to apply American force to defeat terrorism and even though there are clearly nations which represent greater threat to his interests (if not oil)- besides he is kind of an idiot if you watch his personal communications, and what else are we to watch?

I don't really know the answers to these questions - but a web board like this, where I stumbled across the horrible video, seems to have some answers ...

Posted by: H Nels at September 20, 2004 07:59 PM

85 Death from the sky will generate the same hatred against the US that many Americans feel toward any of Arab descent because of 9-11.

-Oh, the famous spiral of violence? Hey those Germans sure wanna kill the Americans bad!!
Were are they? What about the Japanese??
People go on with their lives eventually. They get tired of hate and death and vengeance. Some don´t understand how close Europe was to the abiss. We pulled trough. Maybe we're a bunch of wusses, but we don't behead... And if you belive the Arab can't because they're savages or something, that's racism and victimization. They can. They will. Or face destruction (from the inside as well).
I don't understand some people. We westerners have to be peacefull, quiet, get murdered and do nothing. They make their women slaves, kill children, behead, maim, burn, explode, and get a pass from the "inteligentzia"!
What's wrong with the world?

The problem is that we get all excited about our revenge killing....
It's only talk. You don't see Americans burning mosques like the Nepalese did. Or beheading muslims do you?
Trust your country more. You are not perfect as a nation (know any perfect?), but evil? No.
If you talk about going and pursuing terrorists around the world, that's not revenge. It's war. Get used to it.

Those in the Middle East can continue this type of war for hundreds of years
No they won't. If they continue for more 20/30 years, nukes will be used, either by them or us.
So we must avoid it.
And if the world gets tired they will destroy themselves. Catholicism paid a price after the Inquisition. People wonder why here in Europe we are so secular. Rome forced us to.

But I hope I am wrong. If Kerry wins, the war ends, and no more terror, good.

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 08:11 PM

86 "Finally, can you explain in a straighforward way why you like president Bush so much when he is obviously the leader who launched a doomed military campaign in Iraq (even though there were better ways to apply American force to defeat terrorism and even though there are clearly nations which represent greater threat to his interests (if not oil).."

Better ways than kicking their ass? Do tell. You make the claim- back it up.

And anozzer thing: "Doomed military campaign?" Puh-leeze! This isn't anything close to 'doomed'. It is, in fact, hardly begun.

Oh, and don't bother with that 'Vietnam' quagmire crap- it isn't even close & that bogeyman is for losers who never studied that war. This one is different in almost all respects- not the least of which is that the Gov't of Iraq is no longer what it was.

Posted by: urthshu at September 20, 2004 08:12 PM

87 Me again.... to the author of this webpage I would very much like clarification on this comment of yours (feel free to email me):

As a refresher, a number of "innocent civillians" along with a Palestinian journalist who "just happened" to be at the scene were killed when the US opened fire on the car swarm.

What the hell are you talking about?!?! Are you implying he's a terrorist because he's Palestinian?????? I saw the video of that poor journalist GETTING BLOWN UP and his only crime was attempting to report the news - which just happened to be that a jubilant crowd was rejoicing in the destruction of a US vehicle.

Journalists don't get to pick and choose. He had that assigment and he died doing his job.

I am normally very tolerant of Republicans but comments like that make me exactly as sick as this execution video. In both cases a man's life is being naively made insignificant. You might say one is more brutal than the other...

...maybe. But maybe not. The journalist's last words were "I'm dieing, I'm dieing". That seems awfully reminiscent of Armstrong's dieing gasps doesn't it?

Please be more reserved in the future!!! Comments like that will give you an audience, but not the kind you want.


Posted by: Martin at September 20, 2004 08:16 PM

88 Hey I don't wanna eradicate Islam!

But I want them to get secular. No Sharia!

They took their religion to the extreme. Not the first ones. But it's the 21st century folks.
Get updated! Drop the burka. Quit terror tactics. Drink cola. Do the belly dancing. Pray 5 times a day if you must. But no more of this.

Will they listen??

Posted by: Sofia at September 20, 2004 08:20 PM

89 Folks: Too many comments for yours truly to moderate. Thanks for all the support. Every one of your comments gets e-mailed to me, and I'm usually able to read them all, but with so many comments I've been unable to read them. Please e-mail me if any of the comments need to be removed. I'm not going to remove comments that are simple disagreements, but if we start getting any "Armstrong deserved it, Allahu-akhbar" stuff let me know. As it is, I'm having to just mass delete all my e-mails with the subject line "A new comment has been posted to your blog."

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 08:22 PM

90 Martin,
I don't think I was implying anything, I think it was pretty straight forward. But if I must reply, then the answer is no, he was not guilty simply because he was a Pali. But being a reporter does not make you immune from being the enemy. He was notified that the terrorists would strike, he was a the scene, he was complicit. More than that, he was a propagandist for the enemy. He deserved to die. Do you think terrorist sympathizers die different than other men? Death is always tragic, but is sometimes justified.

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 08:27 PM

91 Last word from me,
Martin, I do not believe Zarqawi gives a damn about what we think about these beheading videos. He releases them not to scare us, but to scare Muslim secularists. This is a type of political theater, but one aimed at a domestic audience.

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 08:30 PM

92 If a killer or rapist should break into your home and torture and rape your children don't call the police, it will only make the killer mad. You are much safer if you do nothing.
pretend that it never happend and go about your daily living. You will get over it and feel much safer.

Posted by: joe at September 20, 2004 08:31 PM

93 RS:

Two comments....

1. You said "He was notified that the terrorists would strike...he was complicit" - do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

2. You said "He deserved to die" - if the answer to 1. is NO, then aren't comments such as that exactly as pathetic as the "Armstrong deserved it, Allahu-akhbar" type-comments you lambasted earlier?

I like your blog a lot but I'm a little disheartened by your radical & narrow-minded replies.


Posted by: Martin at September 20, 2004 08:36 PM

94 RS:

One last thing... if you genuinely believe that Zarqawi releases those videos simply for a 'domestic' audience you are very, very misguided.

What was 9/11? Why was the Daniel Pearl video released in English? Why do Bin Laden & Zawahiri make statements & threats direct to the European / American populaces & leaders?

21ST CENTURY TERRORISM IS ALL ABOUT MEDIA MANIPULATION - Bloggers who insist on showing gruesome terrorist propaganda are aiding this manipulation.



Posted by: Martin at September 20, 2004 08:41 PM

95 Flatten the FUCKEN country and let the dead fall where they may.

Posted by: paul at September 20, 2004 08:45 PM

96 Kill em all and let their god sort em out, lets nuke it and build a wal mart

Posted by: America at September 20, 2004 09:05 PM

97 I think that this needs a lowly military wife's opinion. I know that there are terrible things happening over there, but people are making decisions to go and help a nation who no longer knows how to help itself. With our long history of wars and conflicts, we should know what we are in for. Mr. Eugene knew there were risks, but it seems to me that he thought the benefits to the Iraqi people were more important. He is a man to be prayed for. His family should be proud of his selflessness and my heart and prayers are with them also in this great time of sorrow. He is a hero among men. It is time for the Iraqi people to start standing on their own though. Most need to see that they can't give up one kind of oppression for another. Maybe then they will be able to do more.

Posted by: Jennifer at September 20, 2004 09:19 PM

98 No comments...

We should fucking nuke these sick motherfuckers and whipe that god's fogotten place from the map of the world. Thats it!

These animals don't need a fucking piece! They deserve BEHEADING!!!! Why can't we just let them kill each other, they don't need democracy...

Posted by: American at September 20, 2004 09:21 PM

99 "If a killer or rapist should break into your home and torture and rape your children don't call the police, it will only make the killer mad. You are much safer if you do nothing.
pretend that it never happend and go about your daily living. You will get over it and feel much safer."

im just gonna assume you say stuff like that to piss people off and you dont really believe it..if you really do, god bless your kids

Posted by: alex at September 20, 2004 09:29 PM

100 In no way am I supporting terrorism, the isurgents in Iraq, or murder period, but the fact remains that we have all the blame to put on our Supreme Court elected President George W. Bush for the chaos, violence, and atrocities that we are witnessing on a daily basis in Iraq. If it was not for W., who led us into war on false pretences, we would not be in the situation we are in today. We can cry and complain about what they are doing to innocent people in Iraq, but if W. did not send us there, we would not have to be dealing with this. We are supposedly fighting this war on terrorism all over the world, but we cannot fight everyone at the same time, we must get our priorities straight. It seems everyone has forgotten about the biggest threat to our nation, and that is Osama Bin Laden...where is he??? HE IS THE ONE who was able to carry out the largest attack on American soil ever, under the watch of George W. Bush. HE IS THE ONE who has vowed to bring America to it's knees by carrying out a holy war, and HE IS THE ONE who is undoubtedly somewhere out there planning an even more devastating attack on us. Everyone must open their eyes and see reality, instead of being bloodthirsty, vengeful people who are satisfied because Bush says the world is a safer place now that Saddam is out of power. SADDAM DID NOT ATTACK US! Until Osama Bin 'Forgotten' is captured, America is no safer than it was on 9/10/2001.

Posted by: Buck Fush at September 20, 2004 09:44 PM

101 American, apt handle you got there ...
"Nuke em" because the beheading of an American in Iraq is so horrendous - and we're so frustrated as a nation (and as a blog) with our INABILITY to actually dominate the real perpetrators of the acts of war against America - so drop a nuclear bomb on the whole country and melt a few million people, including many innocent of any crimes (unless the luck of being born in a third world dictatorship is a crime). While we're at it, lets kill A LOT of Muslims because they're suspicious and aligned with our enemy, and their destruction on an "ask no questions" basis will establish our penis size, I mean international stature. Yeah, nuke 'em - Bob the Marine, and the "fuck the dove" intellectuals on this board can all at least appreciate that "american" sentiment. I'm clueless, right Brian B? Can't just walk away from an isolated violent dictator (and why not? - oh yeah, the economic problem, the oil, the bad example it sets for a bully). Oh yeah, that wasn't just any murderous dictator, but a Muslim and the people who attacked America were Muslims so, don't be silly, nuke 'em twice. Just a guess: Brian B - drive a big truck, maybe a Harley? Compensating for any small body parts - or is the right-wing politics at any cost just a great outlet for a small conscience?

Posted by: robert at September 20, 2004 09:45 PM

102 Brian B earlier posted this...

"Just one question for any brainless leftist zombie who screams "No Blood for Oil1"

If it was all about gettign more oil, why the fuck didn't we just lift the embargo? No more sanctions, plenty of Iraqi oil would have started pumping. The Evil Bushitlercheneyhalliburtoneocon conspiracy gets all the oil we want for our sooperenviromentkillerSUV's, France gets to keep its ELF contract, Saddam gets to keep playing Shred the Dissident, and the left gets the absence of a war in Iraq, just like they wanted. Everyone's happy, right?

Is that really what you numbskulls think?"

This guy is an idiot. It is not about lifting the embargo and GETTING the oil. It is about eliminating the government so the state-owned oil can now be OWNED by western oil companies. For you not to know that highlights just how big of a reactionary brainless moron you really are. Get a clue.

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 09:59 PM

103 H Nels,

First of all, I don't believe that your questions were asked in any sincere hope of receiving an answer, but were merely rhetorical devices intended as a sneer, but I shall attemptv to answer them nonetheless.

It was horrible in fact, but I appreciate having the option to view the radical extremist islamic snuff film, so thank you to the sponsor of this site for offering it.

That was one of the snidest, rudest snarks I have read in a while, and if I were as inclined to lead with my heart as many on this blog, you'd be passing your teeth by tomorrow morning.

Can you (Brian B - you seem the avatar of this board and so sharp with your opinions)

Just a friend and fan of Rusty.

reassure that most of "hawks" posting here who share your viewpoint (like proud Marine Bob of the alley fighting) don't really want to eradicate the islamic religion but just fight back against the people who through their actions are surely the proactive enemy of the U.S. Can you, please?

If you can't read through the countless archives of countless conservative blogs to see that, then you're either as dense as a black hole, or intentionally constructing a Straw Man.

And one other area of question - do you think the best use of military resources is launching the war in Iraq?

I think it's a very GOOD use of those resources -- unless you have a better idea?

Some here urge single-minded pursuit of the terrorist, an activity that seems tantamount to self-preservation and legitimate defense given actions like what happened in the U.S. on 9/11. But why not support all the Marine Bob type of people to find and defeat the terrorists, in a stealthy manner, with great energy and focus,

How do you know that's not already happening? Clandestine operations are, by definition, not something most people are privy to.

and more cleverly than the obviously failing

Obvious to you, but that's a matter open for debate on its own.

approach of nation-building in Iraq where the values of America and the West are unwelcome in the first place (as someone like J Flagg points out).

Bullshit. Have you ever talked to an Iraqi? I have. Check out some blogs like Healing Iraq or Iraq the model, or google the term "Democracy, Whiskey, Sexy" and tell me what Iraqis think of western culture.

Finally, can you explain in a straighforward way why you like president Bush so much when he is obviously the leader who launched a doomed military campaign in Iraq

You're begging the question, asshole. If you truly want a dialogue, avoid the fallacies, or STFU.

(even though there were better ways to apply American force to defeat terrorism

Such as? Enlighten us, please.

and even though there are clearly nations which represent greater threat to his interests (if not oil)-

Such as whom, and how should we respond to THEM differently than we are?

besides he is kind of an idiot if you watch his personal communications, and what else are we to watch?

Ah, yes, the old idiot meme. Or is he an evil genius? I can never tell which is the Lie du Jour.

This one is so tired and cliche, I won't even honor it with the effort to debunk it. Go ahead, keep thinking him an idiot, keep scratching your head and wondering how tgis idiot keeps making his enemies look like fools.

I don't really know the answers to these questions -

Nor do you reall WANT the answers, shithead.

but a web board like this, where I stumbled across the horrible video, seems to have some answers ...

And you're just in the mood to troll for flames. Happy to oblige.

Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 10:01 PM

104 This guy is an idiot.

Thanks. Apparently, I'm in good company. Besides, the last hting I want is to think like you morons.

It is not about lifting the embargo and GETTING the oil. It is about eliminating the government so the state-owned oil can now be OWNED by western oil companies.

Uh huh. And who would have had the oil contracts if we HAD lifted the embargo? And I suppose you have proof that the oil isn't owned by the Iraqis, but rather the evil BushCheney Axis? Put up or shut the fuck up.

For you not to know that highlights just how big of a reactionary brainless moron you really are. Get a clue.

No, it highlights how unwilling I am to mindlessly swallow whatever bilge the talking heads of the left are shoveling down your throat.


Posted by: Brian B at September 20, 2004 10:05 PM

105 I am also outraged and angry about what has happened to those kidnapped in Iraq. I feel that our leaders must not react to these atrocities with anger. It is easy for us to say nuke em...but obviously, that is not the answer. We must realize that these people are involved in a holy war against all non-Muslim people. This is a cultural and deeply religious conflict between Muslim and Christian beliefs. This conflict is not going to go away it has existed for the last 2000 years and will probably continue until we all kill each other in a major conflict in the same place where all religion has it's roots. (The Middle East...specifically Iraq) I don't have the solution to the problem but feel that we should go in a different direction. Get our troops out of Iraq and let the people of Iraq deal with their own I said earlier, I don't have the solution but have a suggestion that we pray for God's help in eliminating the hatred in the hearts of those who use Gods name as a means of carrying out murder to justify their acts.
Maybe we should re-examine our values as well and perhaps we will discover that there is a need to include (God) in our society and our Government.(We all know numerous instances where the mere mention of the word GOD invokes protest by certain political rights groups) Pray for our Leaders and our Troops and take a second to ask God for his help in restoring order to a chaotic and troubled world. Maybe the reason the world is so messed is because we have decided we can make it without God's involvement and intervention. Now, more than ever, we need to turn to him and ask his intervention in restoring a new order to our world.
He Listens...He's just waiting for us to ask.
Pray for those that are held hostage maybe you just might be responsible for a miracle.

Posted by: Fred G at September 20, 2004 10:10 PM

106 I watched the video, then saw the stills. And I find myself thinking that God saw and heard the prayers he was saying while those animals were ranting. It was a brutal and merciless killing. Those men are Hell bound with an express ticket. My father is a viatnom vet, my fiance is a vet of this war. I am very proud of them both and they both went out there to risk their lives so that events like 9/11 would not happen again. I'm neither republican or demacrat. I vote for who I think would do the best job. Bush began this to rid us of the terrorist threat and we should keep him in office till the very end. Personally John Kerry looks like an old Gomer Pyle and he seems to interested in his own image to be concerned about our needs and wants in this country.

Posted by: Melissa at September 20, 2004 10:14 PM

107 Folks, some good dialogue here and some real sicko stuff too. Don't make me come down there and smack y'all around!!!! I will check the comments tomorrow to see how this works out. I may end up just turning comments off for this post until I learn how to ban certain commenters permaneantly. I don't mean to ban individuals who disagree on strategy in the WOT, but we're getting some real assholes here saying that the hostages get what they deserve. Sick bastards indeed.

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2004 10:15 PM

108 Well, these photos are just HORIFFIC. I agree with so much anger around here about these terrorists and their cold blooded beheadings. Now, WAKE UP you fucking assholes, everyone that is acting all schoked and unbelieveably stunned at these behading incicents. What is the world to expect when we go after another country. What business do we fucking have in Iraq. NO WOMD, no Link between 9/11 and Saddam. We are after our own interest. We want to dominate the fucking world at any cost. We go invade a whole country with absurd excuses. Kill thousands of civilians, torture hundreds of prisoners, rape dozens of women and crash down homes and villages, arrest all leaders of the country. Then, try to appoint a leader and arrange for elections so to have "democracy" BULLSHIT. This is pure domination and invasion. People there are dying with hunger and ill with diseases. We are here having a cup of coffee at Starbucks think we know it all!!!
Look, there is no pretty truth. There is going to be consequences and ugly consequences too. Only simple minded person will expect no horiffic images such as these and wonder "why"!?
There are people there who are just mad and angry, lost their parents, broothers, sisters, friends, no food, no electricity, no justice. They simply don't care about how the world is looking at them, because they are at the heart of the "action". So Thank God you're not there and hope for better days. Period.

Posted by: ovserver at September 20, 2004 10:15 PM

109 Brian B said ...

"Uh huh. And who would have had the oil contracts if we HAD lifted the embargo? And I suppose you have proof that the oil isn't owned by the Iraqis, but rather the evil BushCheney Axis? Put up or shut the fuck up."

On the contrary, the oil IS owned by the Iraquis. Now. But that will soon change as the Iraqui (puppet) government sells off the oil fields to wetsern interests. THEN the BushCheney Axis (or at least their friends and funders) will control the oil.

And you seem to have a lot of hostility there, Brian. Jumping righ to FOAD seems a little impolite, and quite defensive. Afraid of a little discussion?

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 10:16 PM

110 As a Canadian it is sad to see what your oliticians have done to its own people. The american Army should have never gone into Iraq expecting a convential war when what they have seen is guerilla warfare. Remember Vietnam that is what you Americans are heading into again. Why cant your leaders figure this out, its too late for the poor soul who lost his life today but hopefully you as people will stand up and tell your government to stop wasting your sons and daughters lives.

Posted by: Arch at September 20, 2004 10:17 PM

111 As a Canadian it is sad to see what your politicians have done to its own people. The american Army should have never gone into Iraq expecting a convential war when what they have seen is guerilla warfare. Remember Vietnam that is what you Americans are heading into again. Why cant your leaders figure this out, its too late for the poor soul who lost his life today but hopefully you as people will stand up and tell your government to stop wasting your sons and daughters lives.

Posted by: Arch at September 20, 2004 10:17 PM

112 In other words Fred walk away like we did in 91 and do nothing and pray God takes care of the inocent people we leave behind ?

Posted by: Barney at September 20, 2004 10:17 PM

113 Even if you didn't/don't support the war, now that we are there we must finish the job. If we leave now, with stone left unturned, then we lose support from those who do appreciate what we did for them. It is then these types of situations the become volatile by creating a deep bitterness. It is then we give these people reason to follow people like bin-Laden.

Posted by: dman at September 20, 2004 10:19 PM

114 Send them to Canada they have all the answers!!

Posted by: Barney at September 20, 2004 10:21 PM

115 Not the answers just the intelligence not to waste lives, thank god that Canada is small and safe, no thanks to the USA because of the hatred that your Country's leaders/policies generate around the globe we have dangerous extremists moving through our country to get to yours. Why did 9/11 happen in the first place..because you pissed people off and then couldnt protect your selves. If your dying in New York odds are your losing people in Iraq, keep up the tradition electing great leaders that make those events happen.

Posted by: Arch at September 20, 2004 10:30 PM

116 No thanks to the usa ?
They came through because your borders are poorley potroled !!

Posted by: Barney at September 20, 2004 10:32 PM

117 Ummm... YOU control entry into your country last time I checked.

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 10:33 PM

118 ummmmmmmm how did they get into your country in the first place ?

Posted by: Barney at September 20, 2004 10:36 PM

119 Why should they be PATROLED at all ? its your countries policies and activities that make enemy's, perhaps have Prez. Bush send me a pay check then perhaps I might start keeping an eye out for the latest round of America's enemy's! Untill then protect your own Borders for your enemy's

Posted by: brent at September 20, 2004 10:36 PM

120 Likely answer shrug the responsibility

Posted by: Barney at September 20, 2004 10:39 PM

121 Who you let into your country is none of my business. Surely you have the capability to effectively patrol your own borders. I mean, even is the inept Canadians let them through, surely the very capable Americans will stop them. No?

Blaming others for your own border problems is silly. You should patrol them better.

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 10:40 PM

122 This is why our country is over there fighting...whether you agree with bush sending our troops to Iraq or this point it doesnt matter. Whether you are republican, democrat or anything else, at this point has nothing to do with this war. Because it is going on, it is happening, and people are dying. The extremist groups will not stop until they feel they have gotten their justice. Which in some cases means killing as many americans or Jews for that matter. There is no "reason" why these people are like this. It has nothing to do with bitterness. In my international studies class we watched a video that shows kids as young as the age of 5 being trained to kill. To have no regard for human life. So they become monsters. Its not a laughing matter. And its not something to joke about saying"send them all to canada" imagine finding out that your sister, mother, father, husband, wife, best friend, whomever...has died. And not just that BRUTALLY murdered and decapitated while they were still alive. So this goes beyond politicians, beyond reason, and now is not the time for us to argue over stupid things like was bush right or wrong. Personally I am not a bush supporter but at least now these people are being seen, and can be stopped. Before this happened most of us never knew people like this exsisted in the world. For some it was a rude awakening. SO instead of trying to justify this or give reason, just pray and support all the people who have been murdered, beheaded and are over seas right now fighting for the very freedoms we have today.
Just pray.

Posted by: chelsea at September 20, 2004 10:42 PM

123 Well soory guys didnt relize we had so many Enemies right next door to us !!
Thansk for all the passion !
Ill remeber that the next time I bring the family to visit.

Posted by: barney at September 20, 2004 10:44 PM

124 I think what these terrorists did is sick, and unjustified. However, the U.S., and Bush the Son in particular, has perpetrated crimes against civilians in the Muslim world and Middle Eastern region in the pretense of "protecting America."

Lies. Bush has gotten U.S. in quagmire, and now U.S. citizens are being killed thanks to his reckless and brainless meddling in the affairs of the Muslim world.

Posted by: Cheb Khaled at September 20, 2004 10:46 PM

125 There is a reason for everything, I am sure the "extremists" have other things to do then shoot at or chop the heads off people, to say that this hatred of America is just made u out of the thin air is a crazy statement. Your Country's policies and leaders have created these "extremists" now Fox television and CNN get ratings when one or many of your people die. You Americans are in for alot more deaths...good luck!

Posted by: arch at September 20, 2004 10:47 PM

126 Enemies? Where did you get that idea? I was just giving you some friendly advice about protecting your boders. Now you say that in doing so I am your ENEMY? Wow.

I guess what you are saying is that anyone who disagrees with you, or offers a slightly different opinion, is an enemy. Welcome to the land of the free, indeed. Without trying to belabour the point, if that is all it takes for you to consider someone an enemy, you should not be surprised that you have so many.

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 10:48 PM

127 Whoa, hey now...I don't mind you having an opinion but let's face it, you can piss and moan all you want, but i don't hear 1 Canadian complaining when we Americans come up there and spend our money. If your country had any stones whatsoever, (try thinking back to 1812...oh, I forgot you were British then)maybe you'd do a bit more to keep yourself safe. I dunno, like having an army worth a damn instead of banking on the fact that you just have one really tough neighbor sitting on your doorstep. Bottom line is you can have an opinion because we're there to protect it.

I bet if we closed our northern borders tomorrow, Canada would find a reason to whine about that too. The fact is that Canada is not respected in the world, and as such, you have to ride the coat-tails of others to get any sort of attention. Terrorists see no need to target Canada, as they have no real power. That's akin to holding up a Wal-Mart and trying to retire from your take. Too much effort for too little return.

All I have to say is, if the Skydome gets blown up, all I want to hear is that Canada can handle it alone and that you will want to deal with those responsible in a diplomatic fashion, and that in no way should we as your neighbors take any action to assist you in finding those responsible and bringing them to justice.

Sound familiar?

Posted by: Scott at September 20, 2004 10:51 PM

128 I would like to add that it now seems obvious that these hostage takers and terrorists do not care who wins White House. Their cause is sympathetic to neither party (Repukenican and Demonrat). As we have seen in the President Clinton presidency with WTC bombing and the Bush the Son presidency with WTC destruction.

I personally would like to see John Kerry in the White House. I think we are fucked either way, but at least he won't do bidding for the neoconservatives and Israel, as Bush seems to be doing. But yeah, the U.S.' standing in the world is fucked thanks to Bush the Son's actions.

Posted by: Cheb Khaled at September 20, 2004 10:52 PM

129 You guys just dont get it do you?

Posted by: chelsea at September 20, 2004 10:55 PM

130 barney we are not your enemies just nieghbours wtaching the property next store go through hard times, I for one feel sorry for the americans not anger. By being close to your country but not a part of it we see a different picture of events and that is the point I am trying to make.

Posted by: arch at September 20, 2004 10:56 PM

131 barney we are not your enemies just nieghbours watching the property next store go through hard times, I for one feel sorry for the americans not anger. By being close to your country but not a part of it we see a different picture of events and that is the point I am trying to make.

Posted by: arch at September 20, 2004 10:56 PM

132 You dont really think the world trade center was bombed because buishwas president do you...then one way or another we were going to be brought into thiswar or not..even if bush hadnt sent us over way or another it would have happened, because they wouldnt have stopped...

Posted by: chelsea at September 20, 2004 10:58 PM

133 Scott, you arewrong when you say that we did ont help with the fight against terrorists. We did. We sent thousands of troops to Afghanistan to fight. What we did not do was join in your Iraqui misadventure because it had/has nothing whatsoever to do with Al Quaida or Bin Laden or 9/11. At all. Even the Bush administration says that.

So when you say that if Skydome gets blown up "in no way should we as your neighbors take any action to assist you in finding those responsible and bringing them to justice" you are just plain wrong if you are saying that we did not help to find Bin Laden. Iraq is a separate matter alltogether.

As for respect in the world, in every global poll your country is last. In fact, most of the world (not me, Scott, this is from the Economist)sees the USA as a greater threat that terrorism. Makes you wonder why.

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 10:59 PM

134 Sounds like we take the blame for the terroist every where, you let them into your country and we have to watch them . Dont take the enemy thing to seriously . You made the statement
Canada is small and safe no thanks to Usa
I enjoy your country its a beatiful place and I do have friends up there. I hope it stays small and safe !! I didnt mean to offend anybody. We do have our problems some of our politicians are not quite up to par but we dont all sit idley by and do nothing . We dont always veiw there opinions and agree with every move thay make.

Posted by: barney at September 20, 2004 10:59 PM

135 Agree with Chelsea on this one. WTC Bombing 1 was done when? Oh, during the Clinton Presidency. But hey, let's blame GWB for that too. Unlike the rest of the world, we bring the fight when someone tries to step on us. We tried to turn the other cheek before that. After the Embassy bombings. After the USS Cole. But hey, I guess that we should just let the WTC Buildings and the Pentagon and the unnamed target that the brave souls on that Pennsylvania flight stopped just slide too. All because you guys in Canada and France and Germany hate it.

I hope that you can "learn from our mistakes" and "hope to placate" these people.

We learned from Europe's mistakes....they placated their conqueror, remember him, the little guy with the moustache who was an artist. Anyone remember that little tussle over 50 years ago? We still call it WW2.

Posted by: Scott at September 20, 2004 11:10 PM

136 Goodnight Gentlemen and Ladies
Thanks for the input
Again I apollogizr if I offend any one.
Even if you dont agree with us and you beleive there is a God pray for us and remember those
who are in harms way no matter what nationality
they might be.

Posted by: Barney at September 20, 2004 11:16 PM

137 First, I want to say that I pray for the soul of Eugene Armstrong - that the Lord will give him a place of refreshment, light, and peace. I also pray that the Lord will comfort his family.

Second, I want to say that false religious ideas have consequences. It is critically important for all people of good will to assess carefully Islamic claims and see that they are false. God, by definition, stands for justice and peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. Have the highest Islamic authorities condemned the killing of children by Palestinian terrorists? Yes, some Muslims have condemned the recent killing of children in Russia, but this was news because it is so rare. In fact, this was a first! Christians can do more for world peace by evangelizing Muslims than by regarding Islam merely as a military threat. It is a military threat, but it is more than that. It is a false religion. Man is a religious being - homo religiosus. So it is crucial that human beings use their intellects to critically assess religious claims.

Posted by: Tom Haessler at September 20, 2004 11:16 PM

138 Scott... none of the terrorist attacks you described have anuything to do with Iraq. Not one.

And you arrived to the WWII party 3 years after Canada and the rest of the world, so I would not be going on about that too much. The Soviets had already broken the back of the Nazi army by the time the USA, Canada and the UK went ashore in Normandy. That is not to minimise the massive and heroic effort of all the troops who opened the western front. But after Stalingrad, it was all just a matter of time.

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 11:18 PM

139 What to do, what to do, what to do?

My first instinct was nothing short of wishing I was over there with a trusty 50-cal rifle and praying I had my "Ohio windage charts" memorized to crack off one round to pop "what's-his-name" a new asshole in the middle of his forehead.

Then I realized that is specifically what is wanted. They - the extremeists - want nothing less than to create more and more hatred until we fall into the vicious circle and wind up fighting amongst ourselves.

Mr. Bush (note, I didn't use President) first believed that the war was winable, but now has stated it isn't. He's right on the latter part - it's not winable. These extremeists are so like the lowly cockroach - they scatter as soon as light invades their domain and slip easily into the woodwork. They are also probably the only thing that would survive an atomic war.

I have never believed in or adhered to U.S. supported "regime changes," something that has basically happened in both Afganistan and Iraq. What I DO believe in is this:

1 - Get out of the Middle East and let them settle their own disputes;

2 - Quit "donating aid" to Middle Eastern countries, as the monies saved there could be used to correct the many issues here at home (Social Security, budget deficits, health care, etc...);

3 - If someone needs help, tell them we'll get to them as soon as we get our own problems taken care of;

4 - With all the military personnel that would be coming home, re-station them along the borders. Not only would this crack down on any/all illegal imigration, but would also have an effect on drug traffic into the U.S.

Don't get me wrong, as I feel sick to the bottom of my soul for what has happened to Eugene Armstrong and his family, and I wish I could take away all their pain, but I can't. The only thing I can do is move on. Along this same line, if I were ever carying my rifle and I caught a glimpse of the "doby bastard," the temptation to draw a cross-hair on his forehead might be hard to fight.

One last observation...Why does he think he accomplishes by wearing a third-rate ninja mask? We know what he looks like, so I guess he's afraid...Go figure!

Posted by: Paul at September 20, 2004 11:19 PM

140 Let us get back to the real American President whom started all of this mess. Jimmy Carter was irresponsible when dealing with Iran and it was his stupidity that lead to all of this mess we have on our hands right now. Do your homework America, this is where it started and all of it is about Iran. Iran is the culprit. Wait and see.

Posted by: Louella Kamkar` at September 20, 2004 11:31 PM

141 Sounds to me like Bob and Salamandar should be holding protest signs at the University of Berkley California.
I am a local law enforcement officer and feel that at some point, the fight will be on our streets to some extent. I support our President because he has the nerve to stand for what is right. One of the things which made our country THE greatest country on earth is the fact that the world knows we will help those who cannot help themself.
If you give a foot, they will take a yard. Did anyone stop to realize the snowball effect? No reaction creates further action.

Posted by: mike c at September 20, 2004 11:34 PM

142 BryanL: None of those attacked had anything to do with with Iraq? Okay, prove that. The money to fund these guys can from somewhere, right? So where? Russia? Nope, they got their own problems. Europe? Nope, can't see it. Maybe it was Canada? Nah. How about Africa? Hey, I bet Kim Jong Il...cuz you know that guys got bank. Maybe it was a philanthropist? How about Bruce Wayne, since we're dealing with fiction. I mean he's got loads of cash, right?

No, that money came out of the Middle East. Say what you will, who has the most to gain? Not our neighbors. Not our allies. But our enemies. The guy who we sent packing out of Kuwait back in the 90's. That would be Iraq. Now that fact that we haven't found proof is kind of a stinger, but just because we haven't found it does not meant it does not exist. All it means that it has not been found.

As for think what you want. The Eastern Front was a shambles (FAR from winnable by any means, and the Nazis were FAR from broken. Humbled, yes, not broken), but there was no way, and I do mean NO WAY that the rest of Europe (what wasn't occupied or an Axis ally) could have scraped together enough resistance to win that war. Now I won't say we won that war alone, but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the remnants of Europe's military, even with Canada, could have pulled off a win. You sound learned, so don't lower yourself by diminishing the accomplishments of the American Military in that war.

But back to this one...the War I mean.

Posted by: Scott at September 20, 2004 11:35 PM


Posted by: DOUG at September 20, 2004 11:36 PM


Posted by: RIK at September 20, 2004 11:40 PM

145 Just stumbled across your website and conversation. I think it's a great way for the youth of the US to learn a little of the outside world. Normally we only get to meet your servicemen. There's a lot of them in town at the moment ... heading to the war. I feel very, very sorry for them.
If there is one suggestion I could give to Americans it would be: don't invade other countries.

Posted by: Jim at September 20, 2004 11:42 PM

146 Scott. The cash came from the Saudis. Clear trail. Iraq had nothing to do with it. Even Clolin Powell says so. Your government says so. No WMD, no links to al Quaida. No 9/11 reason to invade Iraq.

As for the eastern front in WWII, I would like to direct you to a book by Aloan Clark called Barbarossa (Clark is a former Foreign Minister in the UK). It is a wondreful history of Operation Barbarossa and I will tell you this: the Germans did not win another major battle after losing Stalingrad. Not one. The Russiand went from there and chased them all the way to Berlin.

As I noted in my first post, I don't mean to diminish the contribution of the USA, Canada and the UK in opening a western front. But one of the reasons they did was to prevent all of Europe fronm falling to the Soviets -- they were halfway to Berlin.

Posted by: Bryan L at September 20, 2004 11:45 PM

147 I have to say that I am beyond disgusted, beyond appalled, beyond nauseated, beyond any feeling or emotion I could ever express.......I am completely at a loss for this poor man, his family and friends, and for our President that has to make such peril decisions. I commend Bush for sticking with this thing and not giving in......I just wish someone would bomb these fuckers.........nuke them or something, they are just having a hell of a time with these sick videos and "religious" they actually think people would want convert and follow a god, Allah, that would find favor in innocent beheadings? Now thats a twisted, sick religion.....fuck Allah, fuck these towel heads.......nuke the cave dwellers!
PS.....if you aren't an armed military employee...stay or get the fuck out of IRAQ!!!

Posted by: J. Weaver at September 20, 2004 11:46 PM

148 As someone who has a son in Iraq, working for a contractor. I just want to say that I am terrified. When we talk or email each other he assures me that he is safe. But my gut instinct is that he is not. I fear that one day I will be hearing of a video containing my son. It is my wish that Bush/Military comanders but the best men we have on the location of these monsters and let them beg, scream, and cry for their god to help them while we are giving them a taste of their justice. But I know that this will never happen because we are human. The people that are preforming these acts are not.
Tonight I will go to bed, again, crying and terrified for my son, praying that he comes home safe.
On a personal note, I still support the decision of our President.

Posted by: Sharon at September 20, 2004 11:48 PM

149 I wish we could just nuke the entire middle east!!! These idiots will never get along with themselves so why would the live in peace with anyone else. They all are just like the ones who beheaded this man, let me be clear. If given the chance or angered they would do the same and maybe sooner than anyone thinks, it may occur here in the USA. Don't kid yourselves into thinking it is not possible. I say send everyone of them out of the USA, completely lock up the borders North, East, South and West and never allow any of them in this country again. Take "all" their monies, properties, under suspicion and give them nothing ever. I hate these murderous pigs and they will burn in Hell forever....

Posted by: Joyce B at September 20, 2004 11:55 PM

150 I'm starting to come down on the side of nuke the f&&king whole area.
Maybe that's what it will take to get some humanity into the area. Lets not forget the English had to kill a lot of Scots to bring peace and democracy to the British isles.

Posted by: Johnno at September 20, 2004 11:58 PM

151 Where's Cowboy George now? Yeah, no doubt about it -- it's Bush's fault shit like this is happening in Iraq. Were Americans being beheaded before they attacked Iran? No.
Were American soldiers and private contractors being ambushed and then kidnapped before? No. Certainly not the kind of numbers and frequency you see today.
It's about time the Republicans admit that they don't know what the fuck they're doing. There is no leadership -- not from Bush, not from Cheney. Time to run 'em out of office!

Posted by: McClane at September 21, 2004 12:01 AM

152 This is a Holy war! Make no doubt about it. No "good god" would let his people be so far from the truth as these demons are. I'm glad I serve the one true God. The God of the Holy Bible.

As for the US.... we have been asking God to let our enemies strike terror on our land for far too long. We have got to change within. Stop provoking God and making Him angry. The very site that this video is linked is a porn site. Lets start there and then work our way out into the world!

Posted by: Ed at September 21, 2004 12:44 AM

153 another mirror of the full video

Posted by: waldo at September 21, 2004 12:47 AM


Posted by: FUCK THE EAST at September 21, 2004 12:59 AM

155 It is obvious that we are dealing with people with no sanctity for human life. What happened to Mr. Armstrong was cruelty beyond belief. May there be a special place in hell for those that commit these atrocities, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those affected, including Mr. Armstrong's. President Bush did the right thing by going into Iraq and ridding the world of one of the worst dictators in history. We could not have known that the war would have led to the guerilla war that we're into now, but we must stay and try to make Iraq a better place to live. Sadly, most of the people in Iraq are good people that just want to live in a terror-free country, but I'm afraid it will take many more years of bloodshed until there is a relative peace there. If they weren't in Iraq, the terrorists there now would just be somewhere else in the Middle East (or elsewhere) causing havoc and killing innocent people in other countries, possibly including the United States. May God strike down the terrorists and send them stright to hell, and may God help the families of all of the victims (and the soldiers also killed in Iraq and Afghanistan) peace and some soliditude that their lives were not given in vain, but for the noble purpose of trying to give peace and freedom to a people that have not known either.

Posted by: Jim at September 21, 2004 01:09 AM

156 The only thing i want to say after watching this video is, these people are not human being, they are even worst than any wild beast. After watching this video I pray god to make this world a better place to live. I have only one request to everyone, please don’t hate anyone or any religion, because hate can’t prevent violence and crime while it will provoke all sorts of violence and crimes and generate another Osama. We all can make this world a better place to live by contributing our efforts to man kind and spreading love among people with different religion and background.


Posted by: smriti awasthi at September 21, 2004 01:10 AM

157 First and foremost, I pray for Eugene Armstrongs and his family. May God be with him and his family. These animals are sooooo evil and I hope God will forever punish their souls. I feel that we have moral obligation to help Iraqi people to defeat these kind of senseless killings. I am incredibly sad and shocked; I also pray for our troops over there each day to successfully defeat these evils and get home safely. God Bless America, the greatest country on the face of the earth!!!

Posted by: TT at September 21, 2004 01:10 AM

158 Equip me with an ak and drop me off in iraq...i personally will do my best to take out everysingle one of these cow worshipping mother fu** sweet it will be when God takes every single one of his people to be with him, and these B*stards will torment in hell for the rest of eternity. Dont tell me to be rational, im 16 and pissed

Posted by: TIm at September 21, 2004 01:17 AM

159 It seems to me there is a lot of senseless argueing going on here. What does Canada or WWII have to do with a man being slaughtered today?? Stop the BS and get to the root! We have been attacked and will be a target again and again NOT because of Bush, WMD, or oil but rather because we are not Muslim. Plain and simple. They come after us because we are such a big target and it gives the radicals a greater sense of accomplishment. These people don't care what country you come from. They don't care if you are christian or jew or athiest. They are blood hungry radicals that believe their time has come to take over the world and reform it to muslim. If you are a Christian.......PRAY! This isn't a religious matter but rather a spiritual one. The world has forgotten the power of prayer and the word has been reduced to a cliche.

Posted by: BAN at September 21, 2004 01:34 AM

160 I am in denial of what I have just seen. This is the worst thing i have ever seen. People shouldnt be treated like that. This is so sick. I feel so sorry for the man. No religion supporting this is acceptable. This is no work of God this is human brutality at worst.

Posted by: Olu Obembe at September 21, 2004 01:48 AM

161 Can someone please tell me why we haven't turned this country into a fucking parking lot?? This is the worst thing I have seen...

Bomb the fuckers...kick out every muslim and bomb the ever loving shit out of the rest.

Hallelujah and Amen.

Posted by: Deb at September 21, 2004 01:48 AM

162 After reading other comments its easy to see a lot of you are misinformed and/or letting the emotion of the video fuel your irrational thoughts. So I thought I would add my 2 cents. Who is to blame?...The iraqi people?? CERTAINLY NOT. How many people died in 9/11?...fewer than the amount of people killed in response to it. Terrorism is an enemy that cannot be beaten by combat. Terrorists number in the thousands and are invisible cowards that operated succesfully without unification. The actions of Mr Bush have almost certainly increased the risk of a terrorist threat to America. The echelon of these terrorist almost all come from Saudi Arabia,Jordan and Syria. They have moved into Iraq to apply their trade. The Iraqi and Afgan people have suffered miserably at the hands of the Americans.

Posted by: Ngarama at September 21, 2004 01:49 AM

163 I am shocked, stunned, and saddened by this incredibly grisly video! I have a few messages. One...Hey Abu Mussab alzarqawi. You are a spinless, hooded, bastard! You ARE EVIL!! God will deal with you and everyone involved with you! You WILL burn in hell! All terrorist groups, you can run...but you can't hide! WE WILL FIND YOU! This is it for me! I AM DECLARING WAR ON ALL OF YOU!! YOU FUCKING SATANISTS! YOU WILL be defeated!! Wait until we bring you back to the United States! Release them on the streets of New York!! YOU WILL SEE HELL THEN!! God Bless America, God Bless our troops, God Bless and prayers sent to the Armstrong familly, God Bless the American way! WE WILL NEVER GIVE IN!!! EVER!! Support President Bush! Bush, not Kerry, knows how to deal with terrorists. He is our ONLY choice! Mr. Bush, our time is now!! WE NEED TO HIT THEM NOW, AND HIT THEM HARD!!!!

Posted by: Patriot at September 21, 2004 01:50 AM

164 I have no words to express the feelings I have for those bastards!!!! I feel that almost all muslims are at least carriers of the virus of terrorism.

Posted by: david at September 21, 2004 01:54 AM

165 I am not American, but it does not matter. The horrible crime is repulsive (to say the least) and mere talk of fighting or hunting the criminals is too late and is like living in a dream. Islam will overtake the Non Islamic world, if Americans just keep talking and showing their revulsion. Just Nuke them and reduce them to rubble from Saudi Arabia to Pakistan. The shock treatment and extreme action is now called for and I hope Bush and the Americans will have the guts to save the world from this horrible and criminal religion.

Posted by: Q. Meher at September 21, 2004 02:19 AM

166 I don't know how people can blame President Bush for this dire situation. These animals were already here learning how to fly, where to go, what to do, try to blend in so not to be noticed. It wouldn't have mattered if President "Joe Blow" was in office the Twin Towers were going to be attacked. At some point we would of gone over there (middle east) as I told my husband after the Gulf war that it was just the beginning. That place has always been a hot spot of turmoil and I as many others know you can not help rabid animals. When we have rabid animals you kill them end of story!!!!!

Posted by: Joyce B at September 21, 2004 02:28 AM

167 All I can say is the beheadings are sick and inhumane...

Posted by: Cee at September 21, 2004 02:31 AM

168 How can these people believe God (Allah) loves what they are doing? How could a God who prompted such evil be worthy of worship? Can't they see that the ugliness in their hearts has enabled them to build a "God" just as ugly? Surely we were given a sense of right and wrong, an ability to distinguish between good and unspeakable evil, for a reason. God help us! We need to have utter resolve in tracking these people down, whether it takes years or decades or longer.

Posted by: John Salmon at September 21, 2004 02:46 AM

169 i am australian and am proud that my country stands alongside america in this war against these terrorist pigs.we must wipe these animals before they spread their muslim shit global.. and it comes to your town

Posted by: sanka at September 21, 2004 02:54 AM

170 i would like to see these want- to- be- soldiers of islam try their shit on regular infantry instead of the weak and frail. go toe to toe and be a man instead of the gutless devils you are

Posted by: sanka at September 21, 2004 03:04 AM

171 the simple fact is , that evil fester and thrive if good men do nothing.. where is the nuke bush?

Posted by: dak attack at September 21, 2004 03:23 AM

172 I simply don't know what to say. I've been following the politics of the last couple of weeks with an amused independant's eye coupled with the realization that, right now, national security is the most important issue of our day. Somehow, this brings it all home to me in the way that 9/11 did.

Right now I wish i could find a gun and fight, to put a bullet in every one of those murdering animal's heads and show them the mercy that they did not show Paul Johnson. I hope to God that I am not alone. I hope to God that this man's death did something to our hearts other than make us sqeamish at the sight of our fellow man being slaughtered like a pig.

What can we do, other than enlist? I am a father whose son needs him. What can I do? I am at a loss, other than my previous position of supporting our war on terror, regardless of my personal cost.

Paul Johnson, wherever you may be...know that I did not know you. Know that you were not alone and I witnessed a portion of your pain. Know that your death was not in vain. Know that I will do everything I can to avenge your death, Paul Johnson. Know that I hope you are in peace and wish your family the same.

Know I will never forget your name.

Sean Dawson

Posted by: Sean Dawson at September 21, 2004 03:24 AM

173 Sorry about the post without commentary. That is something i wrote about the Paul Johnson beheading months ago, and sent it without including Eugene Armstrong in my prayers as well.

Posted by: Sean Dawson at September 21, 2004 03:35 AM

174 We have to stop them if we want to live in peace world. Power of three will kill them one day

Posted by: Matt at September 21, 2004 03:38 AM

175 This a truly a sick deed that according to me can only be performed by people who lack the common values of a civilisation.

I lack the words to express my anger

Such barbaric acts convince me in my belief that religion (in particular Islam) are remains of the stoneage which do not belong in a civilisation of the 21 century.


Posted by: pieter-jan at September 21, 2004 04:19 AM

176 After watching the video and coming to terms with the passing of Mr. Armstrong I can only wish that his next life is good and peaceful.
The one thing that I recognize by seeing death firsthand is simply that all life is impermanent, but to watch similar beings crying out for some form of permanence is equally futile.
Understandably, violence is the utmost form of natural power. Who could resist the power of a hurricane, tornado, or even a global killing meteor. How we as a whole decide to use it is important for it bears repercussions to us all for generations to come. Be careful as to what form of violence you commit to and how much violence you spread because this world is not very big and things tend to come right back and bite us all in our future butts.
The essence of our compassion, for both those who perpetrate these acts and those who are victims of the same, tells a great deal about the kind of person we are. If we wish to see an end to the acts of destruction that we plague ourselves with every day, then we must first look to our own sphere of influence. All ripples no matter how small grow together to become the tsunamis of the tomorrow. When we perform good acts and loving tributes to one another through community development then perhaps others will see how wonderful a nation we have become, and follow our example. But if we seek to commit ourselves to force then remember clearly that force serves to create resistance.
Poverty aids futility.
Futility fuels anger and despair.
When these people finish what horrible acts they have committed, they do not retreat back to their summer cottages in their Mercedes luxury cars. Their poverty is forever subjective and useless to their lesser lives, but their anger lives on in their works of sadness.
The past has an undeniable affect on the future. The only true justice in this universe is cause and effect. To assume that any series of attacks come from some obscure hinterland of nowhereville is assanine to say the least. Everyone has some part to play in this including the ignorant. Edmund Burke wasn't completely off, but I don't think that he intended that all should run off and kill everyone that is related to one's own pain, whether real or imagined. What good works have any of ourselves done in our communities or neighborhoods. Donating money to a charitable cause is worthy, no doubt, but what about getting our own hands dirty with a bit of sweat and grime for the sake of someone else. The volunteer spirit is the most wonderful of all acts one human can perform to another. Religion has nothing to do with such acts of filial kindness.
I agree that others elsewhere are hurting but before we can truly assist them we must first lead by our own example at home...granted, not everyone has the spare time, but if we never take time then how can we ever have time.
Remember that in order to hate someone a person must first marginalize, then dehumanize them. Once they are dehumanized with labels and stigmas etc. it then makes it so much easier to hate an inanimate object. No matter what belief system you have...let it begin with compassion for those that are suffering, including ourselves.
What is the difference between pain and suffering?
Pain is simply a neurological response whereas suffering entails the expectation of pain.

With Love,


"Who can resist non-resistance?" Morihei Ueshiba, Founder of Aikido

Posted by: DLS at September 21, 2004 05:16 AM

177 I'm a Persian doctor who prefers mentioning his nationality Persian and not Iranian.I was born in Iran and am familiar with this bullshit Islam.
26 years ago some opportunistic Islamic leaders with the name of Islam and feedom arranged a terrible Islamic revolution and started destroying our country and everyhting we had.90% of our people are against them but they have no power to change the situation.I live now in The Netherland as a polotical refugee because we thought we could do something about it.
I believe Islam and other religons were made for people of 1500 years ago and not for us.
It's obvious that Islam has made much much more problems than other religons.Christianity made a mess in middle centuries and we all still remember that.
These sons of the bitches are worse than monsters.The whole world and all countries should try to destroy them.Not only these stupid hartless terrorists in Iraq but also every other place they exist.They are in many countries and it's not easy destroying them when there are still lot of stupid people who think they are following God's will.These monsters are busy brain washing of people when they are still kids and they would be changed to a killer robot when they are grown up.These schools are in India, lebonan , Pakistan , Syria and many other countries.
I don't agree with Boush's policy in Iraq because I believe we are living in a free world and not country regardless how powerfull it is and what its words is, have right to invate another country without the decision of UN.The war in Afghanistan or Balkan war in 90's was a legal war.
Anyway. I'm not talking about Americans'policy in Iraq but I believe they should do whatever they can to capture and destroy these basterds.What CIA and other intelligent orgs are doing? Take these people and burn their roots!!!
These are real monsters.I've seen these Islamic Monsters.They should be destroyed if we wanna live in a peacfull world!

Posted by: Farshad at September 21, 2004 05:26 AM

178 Maybe this has already been said, I got tired of wading through the comments...

The radical Islamists have said - repeatedly - that they will not compromise. Their only goal is our conversion to Islam or our destruction. Anyone who refuses to believe that is an idiot, because their actions give creedence to their words.

They do not want us to leave them alone. They do not want us out of the Middle East. They do not want us to quit interfering with their culture.

They want us dead. They want our women in burkhas. They want our children enslaved.

Until 'real' Islam stands up and confronts this rot within their religion, this will continue. And those who blame anyone but the terrorists are fools who refuse to believe the evidence before their own eyes.

Posted by: Ted at September 21, 2004 06:49 AM

179 I have watched the video and read many of the previously posted comments. I too am outraged at the acts of these terrorists. These people believe so strongly in their cause that they are willing to sacrifice lives - innocent or not, and including their own - to support their cause. Battling this type of belief system is very difficult, especially from a 'civilized' perspective. Only when we, the 'civilized' people of the world, develop the resolve to ruthlessley hunt down these people and kill them without prejudice and the stomach to accept that we will also kill innocent people in the process will we be able to effectively combat terrorism. Unfortunately, to do so, we would become much like the terrorists ourselves. How far would you go for your cause?

Posted by: Scott at September 21, 2004 07:14 AM

180 I am from Malaysia (a country in South East Asia). Even though Islam is the majority but we live in harmony. The religious breakdown in Malaysia is Islam(40%), Buddhist(25%), Hindu(20), Christian(15%). I am a Christian. I am disgusted with these beheadings. Is there anyway to end all this? When will there be peace. The source of violence all point to difference in religious beliefs namely Christian and Islam. I wish that someday, Christians and Islam can live togehter in peace.

Posted by: Andrew at September 21, 2004 07:25 AM

181 The ones who deserve the anger and blame are the ones who committed the brutal act. Zarqawi has targeted Iraqi (Muslim) civilians and US troops. He is our common enemy.

Posted by: Jane at September 21, 2004 07:26 AM

182 To all the supporters of this so called war on terror. Your ignorance of the politics and history of the Middle East is astounding.

There is no doubt that Saddam deserved to be deposed. But once again we have seen America act as the worlds policeman and invade a sovereign state under the pretext of ridding the world of one of its worst despots and in addition, imposing a puppet goverment that will protect US interests, namely oil.

Now that Saddam has been deposed, is the world a safer place? Well if you asked the Spanish, they would probably say no, after the Madrid bomb attack. In fact the vast majority of Europeans are totally opposed to the war and in my humble opinion, I would have to concur.

The current U.S administration has created a new breeding ground for Islamic extremists in Iraq. It is a war that America will never win in outright terms because the Iraqi insurgents are being bolstered and supplied by more expeienced foriegn Islamic extremists.

I think it unfair when I hear people criticise America, whilst referring to Bush and his cronies as this taints all Americans. As we all know, not all Americans voted for Bush who seized power with the aid of his brother and the Floridian juciciary. Perhaps things will get better if there is a change of administration in November at the elections. Lets hope so.

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 07:31 AM

183 Religious zealots are a danger no matter where they are from, and the entire middle east is full of them. The people of Iraq see this everyday, they drag the bodies of our soldiers and citizens thru the streets like it was a damn pony ride!! And you know damn well if the people wanted this to end all it takes is one person to make a call or pull aside a soldier and tell them where these lunatics are. These psychopaths think they are actully going to goto heaven and recieve 70 virgins for the murder of innocents. I want them all to realize that when they die there will be nothing but blackness, They have broken the law of life, no god, no prayer can wipe clean the stain of that crime..the universe itself will banish their souls into the depths of nothingness where they will fade into oblivion, never remembered, or thought of with fondness. I am not a spiritual or godley person but I believe in justice and justice is cold, their lives are forfeit. And all they are doing is progressing the annilation of their race. I want them all dead every single one guilty of the crime or not every single person that believes in that entire way of life f**k em' all.

Posted by: Lord Kane at September 21, 2004 07:32 AM

184 I can't believe people who would support John Kerry for President. John would have us turn the other cheek. You only have two cheeks, then you lose your entire head.

The Democrats are so naive. President Putin of Russia said to the USA (paraphrasing) - Why not invite Osama over for a spot of tea, see what he wants, and give it to him. How..I can you give him more dead Americans...because that's what he wants?? Strangely, that's almost what I hear the Democrats saying....invite Putin over. Many people believe that Osama and his terrorists want money. Jeez, Osama has almost a billion bucks. If this was just about money, and comforts, Osama could pull half the Middle East out of poverty. Can't the terrorists see that OSAMA IS THE ENEMY. He is one of those keeping all Muslims in terrible poverty.

Posted by: Gerry Bullock at September 21, 2004 07:33 AM

185 Lord kane. Your posting is tiresome drivel and unworthy of a response. It is moronic postings such as yours which contributes to the European opinion that most Americans are ignorant, gung-ho and trigger happy. Read the foriegn press rather than your own censored news and then perhaps I might entertain the thought of a proper debate with you. As well if you can not express yourself in a forum such as this without having to restort to bad language, then we'll just leave it at that..

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 07:55 AM

186 For one I am not suprised by this. I am prior military and this just pisses me off. These cowards cannot attack and kidnap people that can defend themselves. And the masks they wear even more say that they are not willing to expose who they really are to the world. I say lets start killing a few hostages of our own. And lets start with the ones they are asking to be set free. I know this sounds like a double standard but I am all for it. As for all the bleeding heart liberals that keep saying this is another Vietnam all I can say is keep smoking weed and wear that piece sign like you or your parents did in the 60's. This is just another excuse for you to protest. Hey we even have a great war hero (whatever) running for president. Let us just hope and pray that we stay Republican so we can finish the war on terror.

Posted by: Robbie Robinson at September 21, 2004 07:56 AM

187 Why do you support the war in Iraq?

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 08:09 AM

188 Just read a few more comments and I would like to add a few of my own again. For the first time I see what people mean by we are a passive country. Have you people forgot about the fact we were attacked first by these same terrorist groups that we are fighting now. I do not know if there is anyone that posted who was in the military during the Clinton administration. I was not happy with all the policies set in by the democrats. Like downsizing the military. If we would have been attacked in the early to middle part of the Clinton admin we would not have had the forces to respond. The terrorists knew to attack us at our most weakest time. Now yes we are in another political campain in Iraq but this time alot of so called allies in the past have alot of explaining to do like how for all these years when we posted sanctions on Iraq that Sadam and other groups were able to make billions in money. And the UN now is seen to have been in partners in the oil for food scandal. This world is all about the dollar and what needs to happen is the US needs to withdraw from the UN and stick with the allies we can trust. The rest of the world will see that we cannot trust Russians, Germans or the French because they would sacrifice us all for the almighty dollar.

Posted by: Robbie at September 21, 2004 08:09 AM

189 I support the war cause it was due time that we stopped letting the middle east screw over Americans and American interests. We have been attacked all over the world. I have waited years for this. I was so tired of training for a war that we never went into. Going into Iraq is going to take time and yes people are going to die, but that is a part of war. We just have to keep digging in a keep pushing through and this war will go in the right direction. Do I think they will be a democratic nation, No, but it cannot be worse than what the Iraqi people have been going through.

Posted by: Robbie at September 21, 2004 08:13 AM

190 Robbie. I am not an historian but I can not in living memory ever remember Iraq ever having attacked America. Correct me if I am wrong. I think you are confused

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 08:22 AM

191 These people should be delt with !!!

Posted by: Jon Armstrong at September 21, 2004 08:26 AM

192 now the so called war on terror has started there is no hope for an end! terror will never end!! you all better learn to live with it cause our way of life as we knew it has changed and will continue to change, i feel sorry the generations to come and the security tight world they will live in.The muslim population out numbers any other religion in the world,,,the way we all are going we better value the time and fredom we have now before the shit hits the fan!!!

Posted by: john doe at September 21, 2004 08:27 AM

193 James, We have been attacked by Iraqi nationals as well as other fanatics. Sadamm was funding terrorists and making money off of his own people and the pain he put them through. You can say that he never ordered a direct attack on us but he did fund the people that did. I am not confused at all just making points I feel need to be made. Whether you are for or against the war all can agree that we are at least finding out what type of allies we had.

Posted by: Robbie at September 21, 2004 08:29 AM

194 I have seen many horrible things,but this is beyond any stretch of the imagination. . .
This is the MOST HORRIBLE thing i've ever witnessed!!
It takes a whole different kind of MONSTER to methodically and SLOWLY saw someone's head off as their agonizing screams morph into a gurgling hiss!
I am disturbed, I am crying--But, I needed to see.

Posted by: terry at September 21, 2004 08:31 AM

195 I wonder if the terrorists would stop if we just gave them Bush?

Posted by: Poor Paul at September 21, 2004 08:42 AM

196 If these people are so justified in their cause why do they need to hide their faces. Because their deeds are the work of evil and so shall god judge them as such.

Posted by: Doug at September 21, 2004 08:51 AM

197 Pulling out of this fight now would be a big big mistake. Do you all think that if we put our tails between our legs and run because the fight is getting tuff, all will be well? No, these barbaric pigs will feel they have won big time and will hound us to our dying days.
How soon we forgot 911, the western world did not start this war, but l hope now for all our sakes it finishes it quickly. This is nothing like Vietnam, these gutless hooded cowards need to be stopped with all the power we can muster. I believe it will happen, Nostradamus predicted the the third and final world war will take place in the middle east, (around this time)and will be followed by a thousand years of peace. He was right about the last two and right now, a thousand years of peace sounds good to me. So lets go and finish this.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 08:55 AM

198 If we just gave them Bush???!!! Are you out of your mind. How about if we gave them their own heads! You do not reason or bargain with terrorists. You wipe them off the face of the earth just like they are bent on wiping us off the face of the earth. Wake up and stop sniffing the roses. It is time to drop a big one on Fallujah and srew their holy shrine. Would they spare the Vatican? Personally, I am sickened that we have not done this sooner. Remember it was under Clinton that this evil was allowed to foster and grow. Under Bush we will cut off the head of terrorism and allow people to live in peace. Unless, of course, you want to bargain with vermin that kills innocent schoolchildren without a conscience. WAKE UP!!!!

Posted by: John at September 21, 2004 08:58 AM

199 Robbie. Prior to the original Gulf War the U.S was a staunch ally of Saddam providing military, logistical and intelligence assistance during the Iran/Iraq war. More tellingly Bin Laden was trained and funded by the CIA during the 1980s when he joined the Mujahadeen to repel the Soviet invasion of Afgahnistan.

When kuwait was invaded by Iraq the U.S repelled the invasion. Not because of humanitarian grounds but because of oil. Kuwait was and is not a democracy and Americas assistance has done little for the average Kuwaity or for that matter the price of oil.

I am not a dope smoking liberal(tried the stuff a couple of times, didn't agree with me!). My point is, is that America can not pick and choose its wars on the grounds of humanity, when they have absolutely nothing to do with humanity and only oil. It seems to me that America sees itself as the worlds policeman but only intervening when it suits. This is reprehensible.

Aswell America must be extra careful of whom it gets in to bed with. Praying to God and God bless America rings as hollow as Allah aqbar .

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 09:00 AM

200 COWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These Coward bastards hide behind religion and say that what they do they do for Allah. READ THE KORAN YOU COWARDS!!! It does not preach this kind of violence against a helpless civilian with his hands tied behind his back!! I am from Hillsdale where Armstrong was from and I am OUTRAGED at these terrorists who hide, cover there faces and do these atrocities. If they are so proud of what they are your faces in these videos. The reason you don't is simple. Because with an image in our hands it would be a manhunt for you to bring you to real justice in front of the world that you have tarnished with your mere exsistance in it. The hunt for these terrorists should be doubled and justice be rendered for all the people they have MURDERED!! God or Allah if you wish will deal with them in the end...but not like they were hopeing for. Atrocisties like this are a crime against God!! They will burn in hell. My wish is that justice is served on this earth first.

Posted by: terry at September 21, 2004 09:03 AM

201 Well said John.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 09:14 AM

202 Hey james, whats this America crap? Pull your head out of your arse mate - this is not just Americas fight, there are other countries in this who are also losing lives in this war. It is not only the USA that is being targeted and their people bombed, Watch the world news once in a while and you will see that others are in this with America to the end. So get out of your little cocoon bubble boy.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 09:26 AM

203 I am not an American, but does it matter?
This world is coming to an end and we are talking politics.
These Moslim assassins are spreading fear upon our world which is far from perfect, but at least we try to make it work decently.

I have no opinion about wether US and it's allies should pull out of Iraq or not, but standing idle and talking shit surely isn't going to stop this.

What we need is a very special task force of highly trained and highly lethal soldiers or "mercanaries for the cause" to track down, eliminate and burn these animals that are capable of doing such horrible things beyond imagination.

I am sick, angry and very frightened of what we allow to happen.
The US might not have had the right reasons to attack this country, but it never intended to harm it's honest citizens.

Now our people, citizens of the western world who go to this shithole to rebuild it are being slaughtered like pigs in the backyard. I am shocked beoyond imagination and we need to strike back hard.
So hard that they don't know what's hitting them.

But the problem is that we are too civilized. We are restricted by all our human right movements (where are they now by the way??)
the left wing softies that say we should not be there in the first place. All fine, but what is this?? Is this something that justifies the setting free from a dictator?
Is the beheading of several civilians, the killing of 100's of children in a school something that we should tolerate?
I am simply numb what we alolow to happen without a clear act of revenge.

Is it so hard to trace these groups that chop peoples heads off? It can't be, our hands are just tight for the public opinion.
If we strike back, we will be remembered as animals, and they get away with it again, it will be forgotten who started.
I beg any self respecting country to put their heads together and start a major opposing force, controversial or not, this is inevitably the only choice we have to say no to terror. And I want to see it. Not a quiet attack, but a fully covered and openly admitted revenge against these dogs that bring us back to the stoneage.

Let's resign in the fact that it is too late to pull out. Things have gone too far, these people have shown their real face, the face of the devel himself.
May God be with the family of these poor and brave victims of terror and may our governments repay its debts to them.
That's all I ask.

Posted by: back to the stone age at September 21, 2004 09:32 AM

204 Frankly, I am appalled at various articles I have been reading all over the internet, articles against the United States, and the "occupation", and more especially the actions at the Shrine of Ali. If the insurgents would not hide like cowards in the Shrine of Ali, there would have been no need to go against it. But, these cowardly dogs (may the curses of Allah and the fires of hell be upon them) hide in sanctuaries sacred to the Shi'a people instead of engaging people openly. Instead, they hide like rats in holes and use suicide bombers to kill innocent women and children along with people who want to assist in rebuilding Iraq, and they cowardly kidnap men, in violation of Qur'an, not even associated with the military actions in Iraq.

They (may the curses of Allah and the fires of hell be upon them), like the stupid fools they are, destroy oil, a major source of wealth and income for the Iraqi people, and they are hailed as heroes in the cause of Allah and those who die in the cowardly killing of innocent women and children are regarded as martyrs! Can they save face before Allah?

Worse, they manage to kill only hundreds of American soldiers, along with their innocent victims, in exchange for tens of thousands of themselves in death over the time this action to remove Saddam Hussein from power and free people from the rape camps and prisons who were there because Saddam (may he be cursed forever) did not like them or could not be compelled to agree with him.

Is this not something upon which to consider your ways? The insurgents are fools. America has stated that they will remain and finish the job that it started in freeing the Iraqi people from oppression and tyranny. Kerry says what people want to hear and contradicts himself on where he really stands on the occupation of Iraq. Friends of mine who lived under the oppressive government of the former Soviet Union tell me that they would never vote for Kerry because he sounds too much like Soviet politicians! Do you really trust him? Can you really afford to trust him? He will undo all for which the Americans have worked in Iraq. Why do Americans support him?

The Americans there want to finish the job they started and leave Iraq so that Iraqis can rule themselves. But, one thing keeps Americans there in Iraq--the insurgents! They are the veriest of fools because it is they (may the curse of Allah and the fires of hell be upon them) who are keeping the American people and the UN forces there in Iraq! If they would lay down their weapons and cease their cowardly attacks of women, children, and Iraqi volunteers who want to help rebuild their country and maintain peace and security in the streets and towns of Iraq, and if they would stop attacking and destroying their own economic means of rebuilding their own country, the Americans soldiers could finish what they set out to accomplish and LEAVE Iraq!

To the insurgents and cowardly terrorists who kidnap and kill innocent men, women and children, I say: I call upon all insurgents to lay down their arms and cease the stupid and cowardly attacks against the Iraqi people (for their attacks of the oil fields and vowardly killing of innocent women and children and volunteers to rebuild the country are exactly these things--stupid and cowardly). If you will do this, America will help you rebuild and the American forces WILL LEAVE IRAQ!

Listen to what I say, insurgents and cowardly terrorists. If you cease the fighting and the cowardly attacks, American soldiers will go home as peace is restored! Do you wish to be seen as stupid in the eyes of the people of the world any longer? Do you wish to cause Islam to be held up to derision in the eyes of the world?

You may succeed in causing more people to become angered at Americans, but, if Americans leave now you will force America to break its promises to your nation and your country will remain in the state of chaos in which it now sits. More of your national treasures will be destroyed and/or stolen. The Iraqi economy will suffer and their and your people will continue to suffer. Another man very much like Saddam Hussein may well rise up, take rule and control of the nation, and you could well again be in the same state or worse than before!

America gave you the means to be able to speak your minds and be free of danger of having your wives and your daughters and your sisters and your mothers sent to the rape camps of Saddam by removing him from power and placing him in the power of the Iraqi people.

Let Americans finish what they set out to do and help them rebuild this Islamic country. Then, American soldiers will go home. Lay down your weapons of war and work together with other Iraqis to rebuild Iraq into the great Arab nation and Islamic State it can become, an example to all the Muslim world.

If you cannot work with Americans and Iraqis in rebuilding your nation, then at least stop the cowardly attacks against women, children, and volunteers who want to help rebuild Iraq into the model Islamic State it can be, a State that lives by the words of Qur'an with their hearts and not with their lips only. If you cannot leave them alone to rebuild because you disagree with them, at least stop hiding like cowardly dogs and rats in sacred shrines of Islam hoping to get American military personnel to damage these shrines, and stop the foolish and cowardly kidnapping of non-military persons. All insurgents and terrorists: stop being fools.

Posted by: A Friend of Iraqi People at September 21, 2004 09:32 AM

205 Oh James just adding to that, the U.S was not the only country involved in repelling Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
Boy you really do think you live on planet America don't you?

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 09:32 AM

206 I agree with the person who said that this portrayel of murder is to spark more hate. I also agree with the person that said someone in Iraq knows where these animals are. So, taking this for what it is, lets get pissed at Iraq, pull out the troops, and turn the whole Islam loving middle east into a huge glass bottomed bass pond!

Posted by: CJohn at September 21, 2004 09:33 AM

207 All this fighting about whether we were right or wrong (about invading Iraq) pisses me off almost as much as the terrorists so I won't argue the point one way or another but I would like to say that when ever there are Americans dying just for being American that we hunt down person or persons responsible and take them out and make they’re buddies remember we were there and if the country they're hiding in won't help to hell with them too

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 09:36 AM

208 Will you people stop calling these barbarian 'animals' - you are insulting animals. These scum deserve torture and pain and I can only pray they go to hell and burn for eternity. Remember that God sees all and then he waits patiently.. How can killing Iraqui kids be right though? (posts wishing 'misery and suffering on women and kids') - I have two little boys of my own whose smiles and laughter are of innocent joy, and they know nothing of the inhumanity that 'grownups' meter out. All children need to be given kindness and peace in order to stop this, and wipe away the legacy of evil that has always surrounded them. Rest in peace Eugene, I could see you were a gentle man - and all other innocent victims of murder.

Posted by: Sioux at September 21, 2004 09:44 AM

209 Trublu, thanks for the contribution. With the exception of the United kingdom, the support from other countries is tacit to say the least. Token gestures of solidarity. Wake up you muppet, this is an American war of global proportions that will eventually effect us all.

I suspect you're not an American by your use of the word "arse". America does not need another defender, as we all know its the greatest nation on earth

Posted by: JAMES at September 21, 2004 09:45 AM

210 Nuke the whole damn lot and l guarantee it will end.

Posted by: death to all terrorists at September 21, 2004 09:48 AM

211 Message from me, Rusty Shackleford, you know, the dude who kind of owns this site. So many comments so little time. I've basically given up moderating the comments section. So, let me apologize in advance for all the Chomsky reading idiot savantes who are posting. Sorry.

Also, might I invite all of you to stick around and look at some of the other things I've written? I update this site about 10 times a day with news, humor, and commentary. Just click on "main" at the very top of this post and it will take you to my main page. And, thanks again for all the kind comments and the rigorous defense of American motives.

Posted by: RS at September 21, 2004 09:50 AM

212 I am a democrat. This sickens me, and I would gladly lay down my life to put an end to it. I only wish I were there with a pump shotgun full of OOBuckshot. Fuck that, let's burn all the mosques, like the Nepalese did. It's a start!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 09:56 AM

213 James, really - well maybe it's this arrogance that some people around the world hate so much. The USA is not that mighty that it can do without many allies my friend. I hope for your sake your great nation never picks a fight with China.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 10:03 AM

214 I only hope, for YOUR sake that we are not forced to eradicate all life on this planet by ignorant assed Chinese bastards, as you would die innocent then, wouldn't you, idiot?

Posted by: 4Utrublu at September 21, 2004 10:06 AM

215 Fred, this IS a forum for adults allegedly. Could you please engage your brain before putting finger to keyboard and composing childish garbage. Religious intolerance is not the solution and sadly your demise would have no impact either. GROW UP

Posted by: JAMES at September 21, 2004 10:07 AM

216 Are you for Allah or for God?

Posted by: Pick A Side Asshole at September 21, 2004 10:08 AM

217 Just watched the video, while on the TV I could see Bush addressing the UN. It was doubly surreal, and it was two forms of sickness. This is only the beginning, folks. Only the beginning, since it is looking like Bush is going to win next month. But the US will crawl out of Iraq, just like it crawled out of Vietnam. Until then the blood will only get worse, until this nation is again humiliated and learns the limits of its power.

Posted by: Phil Hartman at September 21, 2004 10:11 AM

218 Jamesa bows toward Mecca for morning prayers, I'd bet.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 10:12 AM

219 Trublu, welcome back. We missed your input greatly and I'm glad to see that it has lost none of its originality, wit and candour. What Country are you from, or rather which planet? I'm intrigued, do tell?

Posted by: JAMES at September 21, 2004 10:12 AM

220 Are you for Allah or for God? Forgive me for being uneducated, but isn't Allah a god

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 10:13 AM

221 James your a fuckin dick head, do all Americans a favour and speak for your self.

Sorry to all for this fools comments he embarrasses us, Thanks to all nations, whether big or small for your valued contribution to this war on terror. Together we will succeed.

Posted by: Evan at September 21, 2004 10:14 AM

222 Fred, your powers of deduction are more limited than your vocabulary. My religion is irrelevent but if you must know, I'm a not-so good catholic. And you, let me guess a God fearing Christian. I doubt it.

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 10:17 AM

223 Yes, Allah is a god,spelled with a lower case "g".

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 10:17 AM

224 Evan, I am not American nor have I inferred or stated that I am in any posting to this website. My original posting was several hours ago- suggest you read them before casting aspersions or making accusations!

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 10:24 AM

225 James, I am from New Zealand - and we can all now see that you are also a coward as you are now using the name 4Utrublu to insult the good chinese people. Maybe you should wear a mask, Arsehole --- Sorry Asshole

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 10:24 AM

226 Trublu, I have made no reference to the chinese in any posting. What have I said about the Chinese? Enlighten me oh clever one

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 10:29 AM

227 So then James what good country are you from then.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 10:32 AM

228 Does anyone find it funny when a US Marine wearing state of the art body armor sitting on a M1 tank calls a dude wearing a black bandanna sporting an RPG, a coward?

Posted by: Winky at September 21, 2004 10:32 AM

229 Go back to 4Utrublu - you Clown.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 10:35 AM

230 Just across the drink from you mate! But still want to know why you thought I wasd insulting the Chinese?

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 10:37 AM

231 James,
Yes I am an uneducated American with no particular love of my own country, But the fact that these extremists are killing any civilian voluteers they can get there hands on enrages me.These people are there to try and help rebuild. It sounds to me like you dislike anything American more than you dislike what is happening to INNOCENT civilians by barbarian religious zealots. You think Americans are "gung-ho,trigger happy, ignorants" fine. We live by the gun so what. At least we aren't running all over new york grabbing foreigners and cutting there heads off and posting it on the internet in the name of a religious spectical. You may think I'm moronic thats your opinion & your entitled to it. But I am not alone in the way I feel about this situation and my opinion is just as valuable as yours so how can you judge me when there are others in the world that agree with me.

Posted by: Lord Kane at September 21, 2004 10:38 AM

232 By "not so good Catholic" do you mean you were the altar boy the priest had to FORCE to bend over?
Q: What do you get a child molestor for Christmas?
A: His own parish!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 10:39 AM

233 Give it a rest please James Carson.

Posted by: Evan at September 21, 2004 10:39 AM

234 Not when the dude wearing a black bandanna sporting an RPG is the same guy using a butcher knife to cut off a tied up old mans head who is being held down by four of his black bandanna wearing buddies sporting Ak47s

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 10:42 AM

235 Come on James what country are tou from.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 10:43 AM

236 Come on James what country are you from.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 10:43 AM

237 Uh oh!! You've done it NOW!! You've pissed off the Chinese Catholic child molestor lobby. We're in trouble now!! Furthermore, the Nepalese DID burn the mosque, and you don't hear about any more of them being taken, now do you? Enough said, then.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 10:44 AM

238 Trublu, just scrolled through the posts. The post from 4utrublu was not from me. I have no reason to lie. 4utrublu has hijacjed your sign-on

Posted by: James at September 21, 2004 10:44 AM

239 Sign on? on Here? WHAT PISSWORD, IDIOT?? NOOB!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 10:46 AM

240 Ok, if you were him, what options do you have in attacking your enemy.

Posted by: winky at September 21, 2004 10:46 AM

241 And this should prove it to you.

Posted by: James at September 21, 2004 10:47 AM

242 Trublu. I'm from australia, across the drink, i.e the mass of water otherwise known as the sea!! Fred, aren't you suppose to be in kindergarten, I told you this is a forum for adults. Okay, you can stay but as long as you post something intelligent unilke the other crap you've posted.

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 10:49 AM

243 James is a moron, just like ME!! Duh!!

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 10:50 AM

244 Sorry, Fred, I was trying to be mature, but failed miserably.

Posted by: James at September 21, 2004 10:52 AM

245 winky you sticking up for them punk ass cowards?

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 10:52 AM

246 Mecca delenda est!

Posted by: Macker at September 21, 2004 10:53 AM

247 Trublu, some one is now using my name to make spurious postings. Could be Fred but that would be quite inventive even for him. Watch out

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 10:57 AM

248 Furthermore, jihad my nuke, wouldja?
Sincerely and maturely,

Posted by: James Trublu et al at September 21, 2004 10:57 AM

249 Just THAT, James, DUH!! Got it yet?

Posted by: Duh!! at September 21, 2004 10:58 AM

250 For a hint, try posting as FRED!! Just make up an email address. Works every time. Outwitted by a moron AGAIN?? Don't you just HATE THAT??

Posted by: James at September 21, 2004 11:00 AM

251 Back to my finger painting. They won't let me come in contact with anything SHARP here...,

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:02 AM

252 Getting silly now. To the little boys with even smaller imaginations, good night, it's been fun.....

Posted by: James at September 21, 2004 11:03 AM

253 James - l find it rather strange then that as an Aussie, why then say that the support for the war on terror from other countries other than the UK is tacit, l hear that the SAS contribution is held in very high regard????

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 11:03 AM

254 Who cowardly attacked the USA on 9/11 ? It was Bin Laden ! Not Saddam ! He was a monster, gassing his own people, but he was never a treat to the USA. Bush should have stayed out, it was a giant miscalculation the iraqies would embrace democracy. Now everyday young americans are dying in Iraq and Bin Laden and all the other terrorists are still at large. Leave Iraq and focus all you have on catching Bin Laden and his fellow maniacs, finally, not all one billion muslims are terrorists but it's a fact all terrorists are muslim.

Posted by: joe melbourne at September 21, 2004 11:04 AM

255 I DO admire the Nepalese, though. Quite an inventive solution, and you could tell it came from the heart.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:05 AM

256 Time to go old testament on the rag heads. EVERY man, woman and child in those particular regions should die. War is war.

Posted by: Ross Knotts at September 21, 2004 11:05 AM

257 Yes good night, it is rather late in this part of the world.

Posted by: trublu at September 21, 2004 11:06 AM

258 No, my point is they are executing (pun intended) a very successful attack on the U.S.... and I do have a hard time calling someone willing to blow themselves up for their beliefs, cowards.

Posted by: winky at September 21, 2004 11:06 AM

259 What regions? Is there no mosque in your locale?

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:06 AM

260 I agree with the initial post byPosted by: Salamander at September 20, 2004 03:51 PM That like it or not the fact is that Saddam was killing off parts of his population for a reason. These bartards are fanatics that feed off terror. They stand behind a banner of religion but their main purpose is to intimidate and terrorize the world. Why if we have the best military in the world we let these sons of bitches roam Iraq and continue doing these atrocities? What we should do is what the Airbone Ranger motto is, "Kill them all and let God sort them out!"

Posted by: DJSCORPION at September 21, 2004 11:07 AM

261 Trublu. So it is but a few batallions in comparison to the size of the US and Uk force is negligible. I am opposed to the war and think that America has shifted emphasis from Bin Laden to Iraq for a reason that is yet 100% clear. In london by the way and got to go.

Posted by: James at September 21, 2004 11:09 AM

262 Our war is with Islam, not with any secular body. It's called a jihad, and they have declared it as a tenent of their religion. We are stuck cleaning it up worldwide, so do so.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:09 AM

263 joe "it's a fact all terrorists are muslim"
2 words Oklahoma City and 1 abbrevation I.R.A.

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 11:10 AM

264 Nitey Nite, James, Trublu. We'll guard your slumbers so you will be safe from the jihad, as they do not distinguish between infidels.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:11 AM

265 Oh My God , I was drawn to the website from all the news on tv and in the media about the beheadings and curiosity made me watch the video, I wish I hadnt now, I am fighting so hard not to go and throw up right now after watching it, I had to stop it and couldnt watch to the end. Those bastards dressed in black too cowardly to show their faces need to be hunted down and killed but first play mind games with them, I can not even begin to understand the fear and terror that Eugene Armstrong must have felt sitting there blindfolded watiting for his execution. I recently went to Auschwitz and still cant understand how so much hate can be in people and here we see the same kind of hate again 60 years on.

Posted by: jane at September 21, 2004 11:12 AM

266 finally somebody with some sense. Joe_melbourne. Good post but expect some grief from the morons on a mission from God to save the world and I'm not taling about the Blues Brothers.

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 11:14 AM

267 Nuke em George, thats they only way to deal with em.......


Anti Muslim League

Posted by: Angry at September 21, 2004 11:15 AM

268 rustedz. I am sorry, I should have written "almost all terrorists are muslim"

Posted by: joe melbourne at September 21, 2004 11:17 AM

269 James: Don't let the mullahs catch you saying that!! Hmmm..., Don't let the mullahs catch you saying ANYTHING, Infidel DOG!! Son of a camel CATHOLIC!! Die Infidel!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:17 AM

270 winky it's not what they do, it's how they do it thats cowardly. If they are so brave why Don't they try walking into an embassy with their bombs in the open.

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 11:18 AM

271 Watch out peasant Muslim George is gonna get ya....

Posted by: Angry at September 21, 2004 11:20 AM

272 fred you still HERE? One question though, are you on drugs or did you forget to take your medication?. Now before you think of being all clever and tell me that drugs are medication, I am using the word "drugs"in the vernacular as in illegal substances. Well whatever, i'm not really interested but could you do me a favour an O.D? Sweet dreams space cadet

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 11:21 AM

273 I hereby renounce saving the world. James, I have seen the light. It's just not worth saving. My apologies to all who died that you may enjoy freedom and democracy. You betray their trust. I am just going to save MYSELF, and die a free man, one way or the other.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:21 AM

274 A hearty draught of free air, friend James, and a heady high it is.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:23 AM

275 Hostage's body found near mosque--
Ain't that a bitch? these corwards are more than likely decapitating all of their hostages inside of Mosques. You know there's gotta come a time when we should not give a fk about their fking mosques and just blow the mutha fkers up. We know the terrorists are in there, just blow them to hell and send them to Allah, see if he really ambraces them and has the so many virgens they say they'll get when they die.

Posted by: DJSCORPION at September 21, 2004 11:24 AM

276 Fred, the word I think you mean is Tenet as in principle. Now dont confuse principle with principal which is something completely different.

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 11:25 AM

277 Stooping to proofreading? I'm afraid even I won't go that low.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:27 AM

278 Did I spell jihad right, though? I'd hate to make that miss steak. I'd bee just em bare assed.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:29 AM

279 At least you got the idea, though, fellow infidel, and I'm happy for that much.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:31 AM

280 Uhhh. because they would be shot at long range by a brave U.S. sniper and their mission would fail?

Posted by: winky at September 21, 2004 11:31 AM

281 Fred, not proof reading, but it does help whilst reading to make sure that one has understood the general gist of what one has read After all we wouldn't want any mis-interpretations..goodnight fred.....gotta go and see my woman as in what you would call your biatch or ho. L8rs space cadet

Posted by: james at September 21, 2004 11:33 AM

282 Oh my God!, oh my God, they're animals, they are, oh dear Lord

Posted by: Mildred at September 21, 2004 11:34 AM

283 The Muslim World Will Be Eradicated From The Face Of The Globe For These Attrocities........thats a International vow

Posted by: AML at September 21, 2004 11:35 AM

284 I do apologise for taking this a bit personally, as my forefathers have given their all since our little tiff back in 1776. Tends to color one's vision a bit. Nick Berg was from my little town, and while I did not know him personally, I'm sure he was a neighbor. Not a big town, and we all are, here. We also have a center for Islamic studies, and it disgusts me.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:37 AM

285 just wanted to clarify when its not what they do thats cowardly I shouldv'e said, being willing to die for what you believe in is not cowardly.but everything else their sick little asses do is cowardly

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 11:37 AM

286 C'mon people, get off the black mask=cowards thing. Think of it like camoflage. No hood, and you get sent to Abu Ghraib. What's wrong with the philosophy "Live to fight another day"?

Posted by: winky at September 21, 2004 11:38 AM

287 winky the marines standing at the embassy gates are hardly snipers. but you got the first part right.

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 11:43 AM

288 hi can u all sutup u shitheads u dont no anything im no american im iraqi from baghdad we have been bombarded with chemical wepons fro a year wich have veen internatinly banned like cluster bombs and uraniunm .i dont think its right . but i also dont think its right what the americans r doin.
just get out of the fukin countrey or the oil and the bad name of islam u want will back fire on u .
and god is on our side since the war started 18 000 incont cillians have been killed and tourcred wthat do u exspect us to do just sit back and take bush and blair bombbardment.get out this is only the begning . killed bruttaly maybe what about the inncent 16 year olds in abu graib that gets there eves torn out choped into n30 bits and hung were the conemnation there.

thankyou from ina baghdad .

Posted by: tina at September 21, 2004 11:44 AM

289 Dying is easy. Any and every one will eventually do so. Making the other fellow die, on the other hand..., Seen the body count lately? We're on the right track. Beheadings and such are very inefficient, as opposed to carpet bombing etc.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:44 AM

290 why dont we take iraqi hostages and cut there heads off? and eye for an eye its time this guerilla war to be finished and if that meens blood and a diffrent more burtal way of fighting so be it these terroists think we fear them bcs of the way they fight

Posted by: pahl at September 21, 2004 11:47 AM

291 All that makes me is a proud American taxpayer and voter. It's what Great Grandad would have wanted.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:48 AM

292 i love iraq you have spoilt it u r the terroist not us u r the child killers .u talk about sadam whanting to sort him out i think u should sourt your self out first
your countrey needs help not us .dont just fem energie whaterver his name is what about 18 000
incont lives
bombardment of holly mosques najaf karbla baghdad falluga so sutup and get facts out first.

tina and from mansoor discrct were he was kidnaped iraq baghdad. i think its wrong what they did .
its not islamic way !

Posted by: its tina again at September 21, 2004 11:50 AM

293 i love iraq you have spoilt it u r the terroist not us u r the child killers .u talk about sadam whanting to sort him out i think u should sourt your self out first
your countrey needs help not us .dont just fem energie whaterver his name is what about 18 000
incont lives
bombardment of holly mosques najaf karbla baghdad falluga so sutup and get facts out first.

tina and from mansoor discrct were he was kidnaped iraq baghdad. i think its wrong what they did .
its not islamic way !

Posted by: its tina again at September 21, 2004 11:50 AM

294 i love iraq you have spoilt it u r the terroist not us u r the child killers .u talk about sadam whanting to sort him out i think u should sourt your self out first
your countrey needs help not us .dont just fem energie whaterver his name is what about 18 000
incont lives
bombardment of holly mosques najaf karbla baghdad falluga so sutup and get facts out first.

tina and from mansoor discrct were he was kidnaped iraq baghdad. i think its wrong what they did .
its not islamic way !

Posted by: its tina again at September 21, 2004 11:50 AM

295 Too bad we mnissed tina ..., so far, anyway.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:52 AM

296 We are a nation that does things together and if we can not pull together to win this fight on terrorism then we are fucked. We need everyone to help with this fight, but what we don't need is so stupid fuckd telling america what we are doing wrong if you think it is so bad here why do you stay?

Posted by: Samantha at September 21, 2004 11:54 AM

297 We're burning mosques all around the world. It's a jihad, remember?

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 11:54 AM

298 We are a nation that does things together and if we can not pull together to win this fight on terrorism then we are fucked. We need everyone to help with this fight, but what we don't need is some stupid fucks telling america what we are doing wrong if you think it is so bad here why do you stay?

Posted by: Samantha at September 21, 2004 11:55 AM

299 tina your full of camel shit "the inncent 16 year olds in abu graib that gets there eves torn out choped into n30 bits and hung were the conemnation there." hell we can't take naked pics of them without making the news go suck a fat camels dick you towel wearing, whore of baghdad!!!!

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 11:58 AM

300 Either the Islamic side is wiped from the face of the earth like the small shit stain that it is, or all we infidels are converted or put to the sword, if I understand correctly? My money is on us infidels, but take your kids down to the mosque and teach them the way of jihad, tina. They may even get two or three of us with their little toy suicide bomb. To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee..., "Bomb? You call THAT a bomb? That's not a bomb, now THIS is a bomb!!" Mushroom cloud and all, you progeny of a swine!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:01 PM

301 Here is the problem in a nutshell. The U.S. does not have a philosophy suitable for prosecuting a plan of world domination. i.e. empire. To get that right, it requires a leader such as Hitler, and frankly Dubbya ain't no Hitler.

Posted by: winky at September 21, 2004 12:05 PM

302 MY tax dollars at work!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:06 PM

303 you know what we should do is pull our troops out and take a lesson from Castro empty are prisons and send them over there

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 12:08 PM

304 Bush? No.., Kerry? No.., McCain????!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:09 PM

305 that video made me sick. if they are so righteous why hide behind a mask? they need to be treated like the animals they are and crushed.

Posted by: stephen at September 21, 2004 12:10 PM

306 Now THAT is an anticrime bill with TEETH, Rusty!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:10 PM

307 Can we arm these convicts to the nines and give them body armor? How about all the speed they can carry? Rapists and murderers first, then the burglars and theives, I vote!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:13 PM

308 Hell, it'd be almost like Australia, only better!! They only had primitive firearms back then.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:15 PM

309 Where is that SOB Bin Laden ? Why is nobody asking George Bush why he cannot find him/kill him? It's outrageous they cannot find one single guy ?! George Bush and his administration have failed 100% and must stop sending young americans to Iraq to die for what ? democracy in the Muslim world ? Wake up, Bin laden is still at large !

Posted by: joe melbourne at September 21, 2004 12:23 PM

310 Suck just one camel dick and they label you for life!! I'm SO glad they didn't find out about the pig, or I couldn't be a Muslim anymore!! Pigs just aren't allowed, kind of like beer.

Posted by: tina at September 21, 2004 12:26 PM

311 "The fact that the victim is an American makes me sick and angry." => I am not an American. And this statement makes me sick an angry like these pictures. Let me give you one information: In Europa I don`t know one person who would vote for George W. Bush.

Posted by: N:N at September 21, 2004 12:26 PM

312 Right, Joe!! Kill ALL the Muslims. One of 'em is Bin Laden, anyway!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:28 PM

313 They behead Europeans, too, so don't feel all left out. An infidel is an infidel.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:30 PM

314 damn tina your spelling improved fast

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 12:37 PM

315 Gosh, the USA's "standing in the world" is suffering? How terrible - I guess we'll just to struggle along having the strongest economy, the highest degree of personal freedom and the higest standard of living IN THE WORLD! If only we were loved - not!

Look, here's what's at stake - most of us freedom loving types believe a stable democracy in that region would eventually spread throughout the mid-east - Iran's fanatical mullah's would be overthrown by the progressive pro-western youth, outlaw states like Syria would finally figure out that prosperous peace is better than violent feuldalism, etc - and instead of just driving our cars and wearing our jeans, the people of the mid-east could finally get the whole American treatment - women's rights, free elections, education, better healthcare. America would keep making the muslim world rich - but the muslim world will just have to do a better job of spreading the riches among their own - there would be PEACE! (Note to region - you still have 'kings" and "princes"? How quaint - we dumped ours a few centuries back. Try it, you'll like it.) Seriously, we can look the other way for a long time - for instance, Saudi culture is pretty revulsive to most Americans, but as long as there's relative peace, we say live and let live. 911 changed all that.

No, Iraq didn't have anything directly to do with the attacks, and of course, we're hunting down the animals who did. But since we need the region's oil (Satisfied? I actually said the "O" word) and we will have it, one way or the other, we're not going to adandon our interests in the region. Our interests in the region are apparently what inflame jihad. Sorry, world, get used to it.

The real fix, the real assurance against future 911s, is a fundamental change within the muslim world. This is a huge proposition, far beyond the ability of one administration. But Bush, while not everyone's favorite statesman, is just dumb enough to start a job he'll never see finished because he knows it's right (It's the vision thing). It will take 50 years - and Iraq is the start. They'll have elections soon, if not in January, soon after. We'll see what happens.

Is this crazy? I think in, say 1943, a person predicting that Germany would emerge as a strong economy with a completly pacifist world-view would have been thought crazy. I think that in 1962 the notion of China joing the world community would have been regarded crazy. I think that a 1985 prediction of the Soviet collapse would have been crazy. So, maybe my saying that a democratic Iraq with free elections will be the beginning of peace and stability, and the end of religious fanaticism in the mideast, maybe that's not crazy.

The fanatics in the hoods are superstitious barbarians - they better be careful, America has more than a little experience taming barbarians. A few years from now those beast's sons will be installing cable TV for western businessmen - and loving it.

MEMO TO WORLD: Don't worry, America won't hold a grudge. Hate us all you want, we'll still bail your sorry asses out time and time again (Kuwaitt, France - you know who you are.) We'll solve the African AIDS crisis - we'll develop medical cures for everything, we'll still make the only movies that matter, the best computers, and all the other things that define these centuries as AMERICAN - and you jealous third-rate non-entities can still apply for the greatest prize of all - a green card.
See you at Disney World.

Posted by: jazzman at September 21, 2004 12:37 PM

316 George Bush isn't running for office in Europe, and you are welcome here, but must pass a test and wait awhile before you can vote in our elections. Thank God you aren't all goose stepping and screaming "Seig Heil", huh?

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:40 PM

317 No, Fred, it's John Kerry who's running for office in Europe. Show a little respect for the country that eliminated fascism in your over-rated little theme park countries.

I apologize for my rudeness. I love almost everything about Europe except its current fashionable political views.

Posted by: jazzman at September 21, 2004 12:47 PM

318 Jazzman, you rule. Intelligence shows all over your post!! Separation of church and state is all important here, as it MUST be there. This is NOT the way of Islam, witness the Taliban and the weak as water government of Pakistan (Where the hell is that Bin Laden ASSHOLE, anyway?). Jihad will not have your well thought out and logical way, though. Familiarise yourself with their religion and you will realise that they will refuse your offer of peace in favor of martyrdom and 72 virgins. The Nepalese knew this, as did the Kasmiris. It's worldwide, and I bet there's a mosque in your neighborhood. They do not want to live among you or I, and don'tr want us living among them. Learn jihad so you understand what we're up against. Spread the word.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:51 PM

319 Sorry, I must have missed the rude part?

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:53 PM

320 Islam was created by Mohammed around AD500 in reaction to Christian crusaders, if I heard right.
Maybe that only sounds phony to me. I've been way wrong before.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 12:58 PM

321 Fred, I confess ignorance of Islam - I'm pretty much an athesist. I think modern jihad is as twisted as the 11th century Christian Crusades, Spanish Inquisitions, etc. That's why I view these thugs as superstitious barbarians. If you're right about their refusal to live in any way among the west, then they are an endangered species.

Posted by: jazzman at September 21, 2004 01:03 PM

322 Rushdie lives, as does Bin Laden. This could still be a sane and civilized world, if we work on it hard enough, I hope. Beheading people proves nothing. The Chechnyans have proved that again and again. They're blowing up schools and movie theatres, dropping planes out of the sky. Nightclubs explode in Bali, skyscrapers drop in New York. Among all this, one small voice says "Let's Roll"...,

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:06 PM

323 Brother.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:08 PM

324 Brother

Posted by: jazzman at September 21, 2004 01:09 PM


Posted by: RACHEL at September 21, 2004 01:11 PM

326 Jazzman, I'd be more than willing to share what I have learned as a student of jihad. It's a bit scary. Do you have IM software?

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:12 PM

327 Rachel is an ostrich. No offense, but I'm scared of her kind.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:13 PM

328 Where was United Flight 93 headed, and did Todd Beamer change the world? One man...,

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:15 PM

329 Fred - do you really think anything in the world could be more galvanizing than the above photos? Thanks, for the offer, no I don't have IM. Don't be afraid, Rachel - strong people are protecting you and me.

Posted by: jazzman at September 21, 2004 01:18 PM

330 It's OK, Jazzman. I understand. I know where the line between knowledge and speculation is drawn. There are a few of us who have pushed the limits, and much is available on the interweb. My advice would be to read up on the struggle for Kashmir. Pakistan and India are both in posession of atomic weapons, and it's even scarier than Iraq. Noone looks at that, though.England partitioned the Indian subcontinent according to the religious preferances of the population after WWII, and Kashmir has been a bone of contention ever since. It doesn't end there, it's worldwide. Islam is a nation with no borders. It exists in your hometown, and mine.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:25 PM

331 Or don't. I admit I have little to lose,and as a consequence can venture all with little regard for my future.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:28 PM

332 I Do like a well thought out opinion, though. Thank You. Email of the disposable variety for me is I'll know your style. It's one of my few talents.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:32 PM

333 Another of us has passed. Jack Hensley, the second abductee, is supposed to have been beheaded, as well. The Briton is still fate unknown, but the future does not look good for him, either.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:44 PM

334 Kerry's on TV. He's speaking about Bush. Wonder if he knows an Engineer named Jack Hensley just died a terrible death in the name of jihad? RIP, Jack. Brother.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 01:49 PM

335 What a terribly sad, shocking video. Death is hard, delivered that way. In terms of the victim's suffering, this event is no less horrifying than other murders carried out in our own country and around the world all the time. However, these jihad killings somehow seem more ghastly. The motivation of the killers is not something I would ever want to understand. It seems our planet would be better off without them on it. I vote for a cleverly engineered virus...nukes are too destructive to the environment. Go, gene researchers, go!

Posted by: SouthernGal at September 21, 2004 01:51 PM

336 Fred - I just read thru the whole postings - you are deadly!

I just had to rant today - the news is reporting this very minute that a 2nd hostage has been beheaded. Think of the families.

Posted by: jazzman at September 21, 2004 01:52 PM

337 I am a British guy, whose country is about to suffer the same terrible fate of having one of their nationals murdered at the hands of terrorists.

From reading this, and many other message boards, it appears to be popular opinion to "nuke" them, or at the very least have vitriolic hatred towards Muslims and Islam.

What I think you people fail to see is that this is exactly what the terrorists want. They want to create a divide between the middle east and the west because it then justifies their actions.

I, like many others, remember where I was when I heard about 9/11, but as terrible as it is, Bin Laden has acheived his goal of putting the world on edge and creating the impression muslims are evil. This is simply not the case.

I live and work in a multi-faith area, I have no opinion on the generic attitudes to their faith, simply because it is not Islam that drives their actions. I accept an extremely small minority may take fundamentalism to extremes, but to brand the faith genocidal on the grounds of a handful of maniacs is hysterical and factually wrong. Muslims I speak to have nothing but contempt for these people to the same degree any 'westerner' does.

I pray for the families of those murdered and my heart goes out to them, but I think we should be understanding of other faiths. Muslims at my work have no more to do with these atrocities than I do, they just share a similar (albeit distorted in Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi's case) faith. Where is the justice in hating these innocent civilians? Isn't the hatred of foreigners the reason why these innocent civilians are being persecuted?


Posted by: Jan at September 21, 2004 01:55 PM

338 Google "Todd Beamer" Google "Nick Berg" Google "Daniel Perl" Tell me again about moderate Muslims...,

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 02:06 PM

339 I appreciate that many people will not share this view, but because a dozen people have been brutally murdered does not mean that the whole race is evil.

By way of an analogy.

Does Timothy McVeigh, Charles Manson, Paul John Knowles (who are /were) all american mean that christianity is bad?

Since you wish to use google as your primary source, I found this:

The US produces more serial killers than any other country. Up to 85% of the world's serial killers are in America. According to an FBI Behavioral Unit study serial killing has climbed to an almost 'epidemic proportion'. At any given time there are an estimated 20 - 50 active serial killers.

I am not suggesting we "nuke" america, but following your logic, perhaps we should? *note* I am NOT suggesting that - merely showing you that to stereotype all muslims as being followers of Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi is completely wrong and unjust.

Posted by: Jan at September 21, 2004 02:13 PM

340 Beautifully expressed, Jan. Rage is a blunt instrument, difficult to focus - it creates racism or persecutions of the innocent - things replellent to civilized society.

Having said that, please, please, please, will muslims now prove your argument. I'd be satisfied with one massive march against fundamental extremism - by muslims!

Posted by: jazzman at September 21, 2004 02:17 PM

341 Abu Musab al-Zarqawi where is he ? Why can't this administration hunt him down ? Bush has failed and has set fire to Iraq to cover up his failure capturing the real terrorists !

Posted by: joe melbourne at September 21, 2004 02:17 PM

342 Now another one has been killed. When will this end. My sympathy to the families. What a horrible thing to go thru. It makes me sick inside to think of the horror of those hostages knowing that they are going to be killed. Our thoughts and prayers are with them.

Posted by: Debby at September 21, 2004 02:19 PM

343 There has been yet another beheading today. Video coming soon. 2nd of three hostages now dead. I am sure just as grisly an end as all the others. There seems to be pleasure in this for the men committing these attrocities. It is hard even for me to not want to see each of them suffer a horrible death. I am so disheartened. This all hurts so much. There are lots of philosophies out there and we see many of them here on this post. What the answer is I don't really know. This MUST STOP. God help one of those guided missiles to wipe out these awful people.


Posted by: Maineman at September 21, 2004 02:25 PM

344 Many thanks Jazzman, your kind words are appreciated

I think if you go and speak to a 'regular joe' muslim who lives in your town, I think you'll find that the contempt they have for Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi is the same as yours, which proves just as much as any march.

The fact we have willing muslims in place to bring democracy to iraq (i do have reservations whether this can be achieved) should be applauded. Plus, Muslims should not have to 'perform' in a march to disassociate themselves from al-Zarqawi, we shouldn't stereotype them all as followers before they prove themselves otherwise. Isn't the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"?

*note to others* Please, before you take that last phrase out of context, please read my earlier posts to see how I mean it!!

Posted by: Jan at September 21, 2004 02:35 PM

345 Please keep your prayers directed to the family on this second murder and may God direct our Nation and Leaders to make the right decisions in bringing this scum-bags to justice.

This enemy will pay for these two Americans---by God and this President. May their lives be remembered and this Country not forget them.

Posted by: frodaddy at September 21, 2004 02:39 PM

346 I see a lot of people making comments that they don't know nothing about. Somebody said there's no such thing as WMDs in Iraq. Hey, buddy, we here in Samarra are required to carry our pro mask because of a threat received from sources that Zarqawi's group has mustard gas-carring mortar rounds somewhere in the city. And yes, we get mortared at least once a week (sometimes more). Maybe it's about time some of you people start serving your country so you'll know what's really going on out there.

Posted by: reconguy at September 21, 2004 02:45 PM

347 I am glad that this site exists so that the people who want to see reality can. I also want to put my 2 cents in as far as the War on Iraqi goes.... Some folks are blaming BUSH for this war... At some point most of them FORGOT that it was those same terrorist that came from Iraqi to the USA and killed innocent people in New York and PA. So, what's the plan for that say "Oh please don't do that again"? As far as the people of Iraqi, the ones that wanted freedom but couldn't do it for themselves are helping with US Troops trying to put their country back together. Yes, I agree with most of you on how much we spend to rebuild. We have our OWN issues here in the US that have to be dealt with.
I could on for days on this..... grrrrr
I have a bumper sticker that I PROUDLY ride around with.... Support The War, Shoot a Protester. And in Closing YES, I do support President BUSH...

Posted by: Andrea at September 21, 2004 02:49 PM

348 Jan, Thank you for some intelligent input

Posted by: BAN at September 21, 2004 02:53 PM

349 Andrea

Firstly, As far as i am aware, no 9/11 hijacker was an Iraqi national (and yes I have read the official 9/11 report) But don't let that ruin your argument.

Secondly, you have a bumper sticker which says "Shoot a Protester"? Funny that, Saddam could have had one which said exactly the same!

Posted by: Jan at September 21, 2004 02:55 PM



Posted by: RS at September 21, 2004 03:00 PM

351 There is no way to moderately put me to the sword if I choose not to convert to Islam. Flat out, it won't work. Forsake Islam, or embrace jihad. Leave it as a stone in the road. Islam knows no freedom, no democracy. The Mullah holds all power, both religious and legal. Secular authority is unknown in a true islamic state. I have videos smuggled out of Taliban ruled Afghanistan, and they are horrific. Tales of injustice and stone age social "justice" abound online and off. I cannot accept that anyone can be a "moderate" muslim. How does one support not allowing women to learn reading,writing,and arithmetic? I could go on, but I'llk await an explanation instead. Please discourse at length, as I am totally ignorant as to how this is even remotely possible.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 03:06 PM

352 This is just plain wrong and not humane. They treated this guy like animal going to slaughter!

Posted by: AngryAmerican at September 21, 2004 03:10 PM

353 Allah is a dog, this is what the world gets for believing their god is the only god.

Posted by: jb at September 21, 2004 03:16 PM

354 Some people (ie atheists) who think that all Christians are radical too. That doesn't make it so. You are trying to judge a persons heart. Who are you to make such a judgement?

Posted by: BAN at September 21, 2004 03:17 PM

355 experience

Posted by: jb at September 21, 2004 03:20 PM

356 I will gladly oblige.

You seem to confuse nationality and faith. Allow me to illustrate.

Today, on the way home from work, I caught the train with Jasbir. She is a 21 year old graduate in Maths and Biochemistry. She works for a government quango, wears a suit to work and does everything else a 'westerner' does. She was born in this country and loves England.

She also happens to be a muslim.

She holds a british passport and embraces values of democracy and freedom. She is softly spoken, kind and will make a fantastic wife to some lucky guy.

Are you suggesting that while we were chatting on the train about her future job prospects and laughing about how a bloke chatted her up in a nightclub, she wanted to obey her religion and video me having my throat slit? I think we both know the answer to that, don't we?

Islam is not a violent religion, yet a small group of fruitloops have turned you into a racist.

For instance. We in the UK have lived with terrorism for over 30 years. The IRA and UDP killed huge amounts of innocent civilians. Does that prejudice me into thinking all Catholics and Protestants are evil? Of course not. Wait a minute... I am a protestant, am I a murderer? By your logic I am 'tarred with the same brush'. I must be.

Just because a nation like Iraq is Conservative Islam, doesn't mean all Muslims are like that. They are not confined to Iraq and neighbouring states. Should Jasbir, who all day has been working on Performnace Indicators, be held accountable for what a fringe group are doing thousands of miles away? Of course not.

My guess is 9please tell me if I am wrong), you have never spoken to a muslim. You have never had any contact whatsoever with a muslim. And everything you know about Islam is from watching Fox news? Muslims exist in all walks of life. From the Millionaire businessman to the begger on 54th Street. And you know why? Because they are same as you and I, and your view is distorted by videos you download off the net.

Posted by: Jan at September 21, 2004 03:21 PM

357 I know it will never happen but s*it is going to happen in this war whatever we do... bombs will still be strapped to women who run into shopping malls, people will still be kidnapped and beheaded, car bombs will go off indiscriminately etc etc etc.

Why don't why put to death one of those two women being held by US forces and say, "OK, the negotiations have begun... you kill one more of ours and one more of yours will be killed the same way."

Unthinkable for Western Civilisation? Yup. But we're not dealing with Westerners here, we're dealing with extremists so we must deal with them on their terms... if that is their wish.

Posted by: RedDevil at September 21, 2004 03:25 PM

358 Nice response Andrea---nice note. Our President is at War and if people think Kerry, from his Senate record, can protect and make this Country safer? They will have a surprise if he is elected.

Posted by: frodaddy at September 21, 2004 03:26 PM

359 Okay, first time poster here.

I think that most of you should be ashamed of your selves for fighting with each other politically after seeing something as grotesque as that video.

Pray for the man and for his family.

Posted by: Greg at September 21, 2004 03:29 PM

360 You would be wrong, I have extensive experience w/ muslims. I know them to be extremely committed to their faith. My only attempt is to state that these acts of faith have always happened, will continue and will not abate until people understand that religion is a force for divisiveness. The only understanding I have about the problems in ireland is the desire of the majority to be free in their country. I am not aware that they are fighting for a conversion of protestants to catholicism or vice versa but for the right of self gov't.

May i inquire as to what she is doing to show her condemnation of the acts of these indivuals.

I hardly think the pope would standby today and allow Catholics worlwide to murder innocents w/o saying anything about it.

This is a war of cultures and wars must be fought to conclusion where one party concedes it cannot go on and surrenders.

I appreciate your comments but the problems is religion and it's attempt to divide people.

Posted by: jb at September 21, 2004 03:41 PM

361 What kind of experience?

Posted by: BAN at September 21, 2004 03:46 PM

362 Religion, maybe........Christianity,no.

Posted by: BAN at September 21, 2004 03:50 PM

363 My comments were directed at Fred. However, that won't stop me from having an opinion.

Firstly, you are wrong in that the pope did stand by and allow the IRA to conduct it's reign of terror on the British people. I would be most grateful if you could find me a statement from the vatican distancing it from the atrocities. My mother-in-law was minutes (literally) from being killed in an IRA bombing. I would be most appreciative. You are right, that one group wants to be free of the union. However, that doesn't mean much to the many innocent civilians killed does it? If you have a relative dead, the ideology doesn't change the simple fact that they are dead does it?

Could I also mention that Catholic Priests, with full knowledge of the Vatican, assisted Nazi War Criminals in evading capture. So, in answer to your point,

Secondly. I cannot speak for Jas in detail on that point, as I genuinely do not know. We spoke about it earlier today, and how awful it was, but my post doesn't concern why she should prove she is a pacifist, it concerns the point that all muslims are not oppressors and modern islam in western countries has much of the freedoms that we 'white christians' enjoy.

You will appreciate this is going off topic, on a very serious issue. It is late here (10pm)and I have to be up for work at 6am. I bid you all goodnight.

All my posts served to do was to make you all step back from the anger and abhorrent nature of these acts and see your day to day reality. We don't live in Iraq or any Conservative Islamic country, we don't have their values and even those that share the same faith in our countries, don't have the same values.

Posted by: Jan at September 21, 2004 03:56 PM

364 I want to know if one of Bush's family is captured and threathened to get beheaded in 24 hours, I am sure that Bush will retreat the troops back. !!

I beg you Mr. Bush. Please stop holding our troops in Iraq. Americans now are in danger outside our mainland. We want peace asap.

Retreating troops back doesn't mean we lose. There is no losing to either side. Insead, both sides have horrible memorizations from now on.

Posted by: Charles at September 21, 2004 03:59 PM

365 I have a friend who is a member of the flat earth society. He's a downright dumbass. Wears a suit, goes to work, and doesn't REALLY beleive that the earth is flat. Still, he's a member of the flat earth society. Can't talk him out of it, as his parents would disown him if he quit. Has nothing whatsoever to do with what he really thinks. Just a dumbass who is good at dissembling. Thinks he's a lesbian, too, as he can't stop thinking about women. He's a laugh, kinda like a muslim woman who professes to be devout, but READS and WORKS!! Yeah, devout, right..., And the fuckin' world is actually an oblate spheroid,so WAKE THE FUCK UP, DUMBASS!!Devout muslim women wear Burkas, even here in Philadelphia!! Don't know muslims?? WRONG!! Know and despise MANY of them for their stone aged views and exploitive drug dealing ways. Your arguments are so spurious as to be transparent,and I have refuted them sufficiently to require another debater. Next???

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 04:12 PM

366 English second language,Charles?

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 04:15 PM

367 The American military is the strongest in the world however they will never be able to win a war. The American public is too weak. Saddam has killed millions, tortured billions and has ordered his military to kill Americans. The US military took care of him but now the American public believe we should pull out. Look at the beheading videos. We should be saying why isn't the US military doing more. US sevicemen volunteer for a dangerous job so Americans like Armstrong can live free and safe anywhere in the world. Our military can complete its mission in Iraq speedily and efficiently but war is ugly and some casulaities will occur. The question is will the American people, and politicians allow our boys to take care of businesss or will the war become a political game. The American people are forgetful. Remember running to a TV Sept 11, 2001 while you were at work and seeing the images of planes crashing into buildings. Remember seeing Iraqi men and women celebrating in the streets as we pulled bodies out of our buildings. Unfortunetely the american public rather worry about "unsanitary" conditions at Abu Graib prison than remembering all the innocent American lives lost during 911 and now during the terrorist beheadings. Perhaps we should sentence Saddam to an internet beheading. Oops no, that's to brutal. Instead we will pay taxes to keep him alive, feed him, bathe him, and provide him medical treatment. God bless the USA, God bless ur wonderful servicemen, fire, EMS and Policemen. God bless the good Iraqi people that yearn for peace and freedom in thier counrty.

Posted by: Mike at September 21, 2004 04:15 PM

368 I bought the Koran after 9/11 and started to read it because I was confused...

Muslims the world over saying it was a peaceful religion, but these people flying planes into building in the name of Islam didn't add up.

I didn't get far into the book... after a few pages I had read enough (for now).

It was war this, war that, kill the infidels this, kill the infidels that.

I'm sorry but read it for yourself. Mohammed went on a mission!

The very first part of the book identifies anyone opposed to Mohammed as an Infidel.

I am Atheist for several reasons but mainly because I think that Religion is the most divisive thing ever *created by man* (and that is the second reason).

This war is not about Oil, it is not about Culture, it is not about colour. It is about Religion.

"Moderate Muslims" may say that these people do not represent Islamic faith but, on my brief reading of the Koran, I would say that they probably do.

I was brought up in a Christian "culture" and I ain't proud of that either!

What people need to do is establish their OWN code of ethics in this world, gathered from multiple sources, and not be reliant solely on one other source for all their daily wisdom... as this bunch of extremist freaks obviously are.

This "war" will take years and years and much bloodshed will be the result but it will ultimately lead to world peace, these extremists will not win.

Ideas will be challenged throughout and faiths questioned and as a result, it will lead to an examination of faiths and their impact on society.

In my wildest dreams, I hope everyone one day says, "You know, this is all a load of bull, I don't need this to tell me it is wrong to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery with my neighbour's ox!"

The word "Atheist" has always been viewed as a negative word but I think you'll find we're pretty peaceful people... we don't fight any wars against man on behalf of some supernatural being who doesn't even exist.

The remaining Hostage is from Liverpool, maybe 50 miles from where I live. He is going to die a similar grisly death as the other two and that is too awful to contemplate.

I just hope one day we get these thugs cornered in a room, blindfold, handcuff them, lead them out in front of the cameras and say, "These men will be incarcerated for the rest of their natural lives to ponder their actions."

Posted by: RedDevil at September 21, 2004 04:16 PM

369 This is so wrong. My friend just showed me this 10 mins ago and i had to comment. Not all eurpoeans are like this, im not a racial guy but this shit pisses me off! Fuck you, god damn iraqis...fuck every last one of you. and you better hope this war is done before i get to be 18 or else i can guarentee you all will die from a bullet of my gun. if i was dumass bush, by now a bomb would have been drop on ur asses and you would've been a fuckin parkin lot.

Posted by: Pete at September 21, 2004 04:25 PM

370 Well said, Sir.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 04:25 PM

371 Its time to execute terrorists publicly in bullets dipped in pig's blood and then bury their stinking corpses covered with pigs entrails and blood in a mass pit.
If it comes down to it and we have to kill every last stinking child-molesting, camel-fucking Mohammedan dog then we should not shrink from it.

Posted by: Matsushita at September 21, 2004 04:25 PM

372 RedDevil, Well Said!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 04:26 PM

373 Wake up world!! This is too sick for words.
These people Do read the internet and they enjoy the forum postings.
Forget Democrats or Rebublicans, the differences we have with these people make a choice between these two a rediculous non-issue.

The world needs to act now!
How will this world look like in the eyes of these extremists?? What is their goal?? If this is the way they solve frustrations than I tend to forgive our unjustified entry in Iraq and maybe they should have taken it a step further after all.

materialism and capitalism is not holy, but what these bastards are doing now is beyond all humane rules of law including religious ones.

Never ever will this evil be accepted and may they all rot in hell.

Do these people realize that they anounce armageddon?

How can you do this coming home to your fucking place and your wife asks you what did you do today? Oh well, they saw it coming but I chopped another yankee's throat off, no sweat. Hellooooooo, when are we going to take a stand and fight back using their own rules. FUCK ALLAH!!!

Posted by: the hell with moslims at September 21, 2004 04:32 PM

374 You too,Matsushita!! Not as eloquent, but I can taste the sincerity!! Spread the word. Where you work, where you live. Islam is evil, and it's practitioners are not welcome in our civilized democracy. Freedom is a two way street. I grant you the same freedom you grant me. Read about Kashmir. Read about Serbia and ethnic cleansing. NOTHING "clean" about burning families in their homes at night and shooting those who flee the flames. Bashing infants skulls into the wall in the name of jihad!! "Moderate" muslims? Leave Islam as a stone in the road.Do not be ashamed for what you were, instead be proud for what you have decided to become. Learn to read, women. Learn to work, and cast off the burka, becoming a productive member of society. Refuse to be property, and embrace freedom. Read this to a Muslim woman today, Brother.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 04:37 PM

375 I do not think that this is a matter of whether or not we went over there and removed Saddam Hussien, or even about his WMD's. This is all about them having a chance to kill americans.
In this day and age, we would be facing these types of atrocities no matter what the country. These people have a deep hate of America, for whatever reson. The do not give a damn about Iraq or Saddam. They have no allegience to any country. They act in the name of Islam, but do not practice the religion or care for any of its laws. Their respect for human life is none.
There is no sense in trying to bargain with these people. It is useless to strike any type of deal as they can not be trusted to honor any agreement.
To leave Iraq at this point would only invite more acts of this nature. And quite possibly on the home front. I feel that it is only a matter of time until this type of action starts here. Then we will see all of the people cying about civil liberties change their story quicker than Kerry.
P.S. As for the WMD's, Iraq had three, the HUSSIENS. (Remember POL POT? In hindsight, the whole world wishes that something had been done to remove this monster, but they always say hindsight is 20/20)

Posted by: jarhead at September 21, 2004 04:47 PM

376 Is it that the best kind of Americans enlist in the USMC, or the USMC makes the best kind of Americans?
VietNam Volunteer

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 05:15 PM

377 And I was a squid!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 05:19 PM

378 Thank God that Usay and Ootay chose to fight it out with the 101st, huh? Great decision!!

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 05:22 PM

379 man I wished they would let people with mental illness' in the army because I would sure love to use some of my "psychotic features" on these jihad lovin pricks

Posted by: rustedz at September 21, 2004 05:29 PM

380 Oh my God! Why is there nobody to drop atomic bombs on this country - for each and every American or European who came to death through Arab/muslim shitheads. Kill them all before they will kill us!

Posted by: Michael at September 21, 2004 05:37 PM


Posted by: Melissa Saint at September 21, 2004 05:50 PM

382 My deepest sympathies to the families of these men. The still photos are stunning in their brutality. While in the Air Force and college back in the early seventies, I went through electronics school with military personnel from Iran. They were somewhat "westernized" and spoke remarkably good English. They also manifest some culture shock coming to Denver, Colorada where we trained. One young Iranian stated that he and his comrades, to put it in an American vernacular, felt "like kids in a candy store" and that they viewed most American women as "whores". When I asked him why, he indicated that back in his country, most men never see the face of their future wives before the night of their wedding. Marriages were arranged by family members. Here in America, women expose their faces and bodies in a "shameful" way and that it was a common experience for American men to expect a sexual encounter with a woman on their first date. The Iranians could not fathom this degree of "immorality". And yet they endulged themselves in it at every opportunity. When in Rome, as they say. Given the modern capabilities of the U.S. military, (and I am referring to those technologies many of you have no awareness of), it stikes me as odd that live surveillance of Fallujah would not allow our intelligence agencies to backtrack from the site of deposition of Eugene Armstrong's body and locate where these hostages are being held and/or executed. At the very least, mount a rescue or if all else fails, deliver a laser-guided munition on the site. I have no hatred of Muslims, Arabs, or any God-fearing Iraqi in particular. But terrorism a a plague upon the face of this earth. Contemplate the death of all terrorists, if you will. The force of many minds focused on a single goal has great power....

Posted by: Mark M. at September 21, 2004 06:14 PM


Posted by: Marine at September 21, 2004 06:15 PM

384 I have never been so helplessly angry in my life whilst viewing this sickening display of cowardice. A simple message of warning to those of whom would harbor such cowardice and contempt for human life...YOUR GOD IS DEAD AND SOON YOU WILL FOLLOW!!!!

zarqawi is the biggest pussy in history...documented and undocumented.

May Mr. Armstrong, those preceding and those following find themselves in the arms of allah, a god who eternally rejects zarqawi and his band of limpwristed pantywaists.

Posted by: Justin at September 21, 2004 06:19 PM

385 Do any of you really give a shit about the plight of the Marsh Arabs, the Kurds or the Shai...Well neither does "OUR" government, they care about what Iraq is able to pump out of the ground, pure black crude...bottom line, we have sold our soul and the lives of our military for a bit of the juice, all hail Dubya and his posse of modern day profiteers...

Posted by: Clash City Rocker at September 21, 2004 06:21 PM

386 If the people who killing the latest hostages are monitoring this web page, can I ask why you are doing this? All I can see and hear is your savage rage from the video, I don't understand your language and the media doesn't tell me enough.

I come from Liverpool,where the last hostage comes from, I don't know anything about him other than his family's frantic attempts through the media to put pressure on Mr Blair to act, which is the kind of publicity and pressure you presumably want, to maintain the seriousness in everyones consciousness. I am sure you don't expect them to release the people you asked for.

In Ireland violence was met with violence with little understanding or mediation. Until somehow people spoke clearly to each other and found answers.

If you release the British hostage, people I am sure would be struck more by your humanity than the senseless killing of another loved person.

I want to know exactly what you want and how our goverment can reach some process of negotiation.I don't know why you can't be heard or understood by the 'West' to the extent that you have to resort to such extreme behaviour.

I want to understand!

'Give Peace a Chance'.

Posted by: Frank at September 21, 2004 06:34 PM

387 Clash, you are sad and sorry. People better than you died so that you could express your lame assed opinion freely. Have a little respect.

Posted by: Fred at September 21, 2004 06:36 PM

388 For every one American they behead or kill we should execute 100 Iraqi POWs, That will save us from having to feed them to eventually release them so they can kill more Americans. After all it is WAR, and if the do not follow the rules then we should not have to either.

Posted by: Mad as Hell at September 21, 2004 07:08 PM

389 Quite

Posted by: Yes at September 21, 2004 07:11 PM

390 If I hear one more idiotic person like arch say the words, "waste our soldiers lives"...I'm going to puke. What have you lost you friggin idiot? Do you even know 1 soldier who was killed? Do you know what he thought about before he went over there and never returned? Do you even know one family member of a soldier who was killed? Do you know their wives? Their kids? Do you know what they think? What you know is jack squat. You measure life on your terms, not on the terms of the person who live it or those who loved them.

My brother was killed in Iraq. NO-ONE TOOK HIS LIFE...he GAVE it. It wasn't wasted. I don't know you from adam but I'll wager every cent I have that he lived more in his 41 years than you will ever live in 3 lifetimes...or 3 reincarnations if that relates to you more. He gave more love to his children than you ever will. he could have died at 30 and still had made a better contribution to country and society than you ever will.

Do you know what a waste is? A waste is a person who closes their eyes. That sees only the world around him personally. That is not affected inside by a death or a beheading or a plane crashing into a building until it happens to them personally. Then they scream and cry for help and wonder where their protection is. if you think for one minute you are safe here in America or would have been safe had we never sought out the enemy on THEIR territory then I already know something about you....and my brother was also superior in intelligence.

No terrorists in Iraq? Give me a break. We're not creating them over there. Every last one of these bastards were already there. Where are they getting their supllies do you think. Are they manufacturing them as they grow antagonistci towards the United States? The weapons were there. The explosives were there. And the hatred was already there. They're being flushed out on THEIR home turf...not ours and you'll never understand that cause hardly one damn terrorist attack of any significance has occured in 4 years on our soil. They're being killed by the dozens and just cause the damn media shows you every bombing and death over there and none of the reconstruction and gratitude of the good Iraqi people you assume it doesn't exist. I talk to the soldiers who've returned. They laugh at most of the media reports you get to see. It's totally out of proportion. We have more people killed here in America in a day in car accidents than are killed over there by a terrorist attack. Open your eyes and keep your subjects to things you know...not your speculation.

Posted by: Mike at September 21, 2004 07:22 PM

391 Those heartsless bastard should just be NUKE them all and let GOD sort them out! Give peace a chance are you fucking stupid?!! They were the one's who did it to us on Sept 11. So we should be like Clinton and just sit on our hands. Fuck that! Just take them out or they will keep come after us again and again till they get us. Clash your fucking stupid too. We are spending hunders of millons of dollars to stop these asshole. We have all oil we need right at home. We don't need there oil.

Posted by: becol at September 21, 2004 07:25 PM

392 After viewing these clips all I can say is God help the families and the helpless men that have been so brutally murdered and DAMN them!

Posted by: michael at September 21, 2004 09:42 PM

393 Fello Bloggers,
The sad thing about this whole situation is Alot of us BELIEVE and have faith that we are doing whats right to invade and place a control of some sort in Iraq. As in all wars and in human life there is 2 sides... Look at this scenero... You are at your own home at a week end get together with family and friends... All of a sudden, your family is being killed, now this could be by an attacker from the US or from another country. Do you stand by and watch and say oh the Law will take care of this or our GOVERNMENT will deal with it. Out of ANGER you will strike back, Out of GRIEF, you will want retaliation, and out of FEAR you will want Justice. I believe that if those that attacked TWC and Pentagon and where ever that other plane was going could have devised a way to make a larger attack they would have. I am greatful that we have a President that had the balls and backbone to do something about it....
On another note....
At least BUSH doesn't have a brow beating wife (Hilary) shoving her face into every aspect of his presidency. Bush's wife respects her husband for who he is, her husband, the President and a MAN....
Yes, I am a woman and I firmly believe that a MAN should be in charge or our Nation as well as our HOMES...
Mike you made very good points and I applaud you. Take a look at this website... This is truly as sad as the beheading of those good men..

Takes a few to load but worth waiting...

Posted by: Andrea at September 21, 2004 09:55 PM

394 my team & i will be there shortly. we will avenge every american killed by these fucks. they & their leader will die with pig in there mouths. that i can promise. "operator V"

Posted by: operator v at September 21, 2004 10:03 PM

395 Do you people really think that Bush gives a flying f*ck about any of these innocent people who are being beheaded? PLEASE!! I would like to see how quickly he negotiated with the terrorists if one of his family members was the next one on the chopping block.

Posted by: Faith at September 21, 2004 10:12 PM

396 The complusion to blog is a strange one. What could possibly be gained by blogging with complete strangers? I guess we exibit a part of humanity when we commiserate with each other or offer a verbal ass-kicking to those who need it. I try to make some sense of these pictures. I don't think sense can really be made of them entirely. It's about the only thing that brings me to the brink of rage anymore. I mean that deep primal feeling that a parent feels for a child in danger. It must be a survival mechanism of sorts. Reminds me of something my father used to say. There is only one thing you do with a rabid dog. You can't cure it. You can't reason with it. You can only put it out of its misery. You ever see a rabid dog standing in front of a small child? Its mouth foaming, snarling with rage. Only one thing on its mind... kill the child. That's the feeling I get when I look at these pictures. Our modern sensabilities are preventing us from doing what our primal instincts tell us must be done. You can't cure terrorism, any more than you can reason with a terrorist. You can only put them out of their misery. I guess I feel better now. At least my heart is thumping a little less...

Posted by: blackboots at September 21, 2004 10:52 PM

397 All I can say is, get a gun, learn how to use it.
I can not understand some of these comments. What I mean is, you see that these animals are serious about wanting to KILL us, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, yet, you SHEEP still act like the cheerleaders of the very people that want to see YOU DEAD. A gun can kill both preditors and their pray.

Posted by: spike at September 21, 2004 11:04 PM

398 Saw this posting today and couldn't help myself from commenting:

"Does anyone find it funny when a US Marine wearing state of the art body armor sitting on a M1 tank calls a dude wearing a black bandanna sporting an RPG, a coward?

Posted by: Winky at September 21, 2004 10:32 AM "

Why yes Winky, I do find it funny, but only after the M1 fires and the dude with the black bandanna disappears in a big cloud of black smoke. That's when I start laughing.

Posted by: Slappy Jenkins at September 21, 2004 11:08 PM

399 Jihad!! Jihad!! Holy War!!!

Holy shit!!! It's and F-15 Strike Eagle, turn this f'n camel around!!!

Posted by: Slappy Jenkins at September 21, 2004 11:16 PM

400 Vote Kerry for these things to be stopped!
We decide...a warfreak president or the new guy who wants peace?

Posted by: Naz at September 21, 2004 11:19 PM

401 what is going threw these monsters minds as they do this murder, they must have a very very sick mind.

Posted by: sam at September 21, 2004 11:22 PM

402 Naz, neither you nor the President is able to decide between war and peace. It is too late for that. War has been thrust upon the whole world and we have only two choices: Fight or Die. Peace will only be achieved by victory.

Posted by: blackboots at September 21, 2004 11:30 PM

403 there are no comments as to what these animals are doing to other human beings in the name of God, it just goes to show that some people just need to be killed, no if, ands or buts

Posted by: sad american at September 22, 2004 12:07 AM

404 Did ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. show the mutilated bodies of children after the U.S.'s bombing of Baghdad?

There were many photos on the internet of kids with their skulls blown to bits, limbs dismembered, bodies charred.

A violent, brutal death like that of the hostage above is sickening, and inexusable in its terror and brutality.

And I don't really give a shit who you want to blame, what country or group did what, who's right, wrong, good or evil, since victims are victims, after all.

It's just the way that children can be mutilated so long as you say it's for their own non-existent 'freedom' - as if you're all righteous and just - and when some fanatic fuckers do it for a video it's the greatest evil in the world.

Mutilation is mutilation, regardless of more of this bullshit that prices must be paid for 'freedom'...that you can sit there and say it will all be worth it in the end, from your suburb home in U.S.A. - I really don't think that kind of reasoning is any consolance to victims and their does this work? Innocent children must die so Islamist extremists can take hostages in Iraq and kill foreign contractors...

And that so long as we say we're going to get those extremists, any other death and destruction along the way is automatically justified and legitimate?

Who really gave a shit about those pictures of dead children anyway? It's not JUST some fucking sad reality, a necessity - you stinking arm-chair moralists would change your story if those were your kids

Posted by: Hypocrisy at September 22, 2004 12:20 AM

405 Although there are far too few of them left, it is women like Andrea that gives me hope that this country will continue to be great. We as individuals, together with our beliefs, will determine who we are as a country. And it is women like Andrea who will continue to help the men of this great country stay the course. They will raise our children with the right perspectives to become American people of action.

Yes Spike, I agree with you. We are at the point when someone may exclaim "call to arms!" Videos such as the one surrounded by this blog so insense us that we agitate in our homes, itching for the chance to strike back.

I too feel that. I live vicariously through my son, now in Iraq, a fighting infantryman. But our job here is first education and then resolve. We must never forget who we are and what we are trying to accomplish. And then, when we are quite resolute, we vote, we volunteer for our party, we write our Congress and our House. Our mission is to do what past Americans have won for us with their lives: our God given rights to self determination, freedom in all its forms, as well as our right to act upon our collective will as a nation among nations.

Posted by: Chris at September 22, 2004 12:37 AM

406 I think its really truly disgusting that these barbarians, animals would choose innocent people to state what they want! Let these animals pick on somebody their size and not innocent people! They are nothing but animals, i wish they too would experience the same death and much slower and a million times painful! Its just not fair that the innocent should suffer at the mercy of these barbarians! they aren't close to humans anymore, they are animals!!! even my dog is better!
My deepest sympathy to Eugene's family.

Posted by: Sydney Gambish at September 22, 2004 12:48 AM

407 That was the most awful thing I have ever seen. You could see the poor man totally gripped in terror, knowing what was going to happen. Yet he was still forced to listen to those lunatics rant for a full 8 minutes before they viciously took his life. Heartbreaking...

Posted by: Cathy at September 22, 2004 01:20 AM

408 Ongelooflijk wat ik gezien heb. Het feit alleen al dat ze iemand op zo'n wijze kunnen ombrengen, geeft aan dat het beesten zijn. Hoewel ik geen voorstander ben van Bush en zijn beleid, is het niet de schuld van Bush, zijn beleid of die van de Westerse wereld. Dit heeft niets met politiek, geloof of principe te maken. Met deze mensen moet niet worden onderhandeld, maar moeten worden opgepakt en vervolgd. I have written my opinion in Dutch, because I want to show others that it doesn't only concern people from Iraq of the USA, but also people from Europe.

Posted by: vincent at September 22, 2004 01:40 AM

409 Pane Bože... Co je k tomu vede? Musí být zoufalí... Je mi líto rodin zavražděných, mají můj soucit a jsem v modlitbách s nimi... Even in Europe, we care and pray for peace...

Posted by: Katalinka at September 22, 2004 01:48 AM

410 Pane Boze... Co je k tomu vede? Musí být zoufalí... Je mi líto rodin zavrazdených, mají muj soucit a jsem v modlitbách s nimi... Even in Europe, we care and pray for peace...

Posted by: Katalinka at September 22, 2004 01:49 AM


Posted by: pagallo at September 22, 2004 02:01 AM


Posted by: GU316 at September 22, 2004 02:34 AM

413 "... suddenly one president feels that he has been empowered by some higher intellect..." written by salamander the stupid.

feels that he has been empowered? HMMMM...
Do you mean the physical attack and slaughter of 3000 Americans in Manhattan 3 years ago? Or have you also conveniently "forgotten" the details as well as the rest of the libs that just want to blame and never take responsibility...?

You are a special bird Mr. Salamander, try to open the pin hole of a brain of yours and really listen to what you are saying. Why all the hate? Who hurt you?

Posted by: sick of stupid people at September 22, 2004 02:39 AM

414 I have no sympathy for those animals in the middle east. Ive been there and seen the ugly in it and I keep thinking why dont we just say the hell with the entire scum of the earth we call the middle east. GLAZE IT OVER AND FORGET IT....Oh and the hell with the french too...

Posted by: SSG TOPPLE U.S ARMY at September 22, 2004 03:47 AM

415 do we really know they are iraqis? i will agree these are horrible scenes. but with the hoods they could be anybody including americains.....

Posted by: melane at September 22, 2004 03:59 AM

416 I really support the beheading because it's just the same as Bush is doing to the innocent people of Iraq and other places in the world. Unless there's no more people like him in this world then we can live in peace.....

Posted by: Brad at September 22, 2004 04:08 AM

417 Everybody!!! Please,,,, i have the updates!!!People behind the hoods are actually Israel's men pretending like Moslems, they're actually Jews beheading Americans...All these times, Jews play the main role in destructing US, Mid-EAst and Iraq, Afghanistan and many parts of the world...F.Y.I.

Posted by: Brad at September 22, 2004 04:18 AM

418 Apparently, some of you do really think they are superior. I feel really sorry that innocent people have to be beheaded so that idiot and ignorant americans like SSG Topple US Army believe they have the right to speak in this way about the Middle East. I am SO disgusted by this incredible stupidity. By the way, some people around here may be part of the middle east.

Posted by: Mircea at September 22, 2004 04:23 AM

419 we need to drop one big bomb on iraq like we did japan get thi war over with

Posted by: jay proehl at September 22, 2004 04:32 AM

420 Brad, you are sick and fucked in the head. These murdering Iraqis need a lesson teaching to 'em. So I say once found stick a nuke up their arse

Posted by: zunni at September 22, 2004 05:28 AM

421 I'm with Zunni... That could have been my father instead of armstrong... and im sorry but a nuke is all I can think of. And Brad... you're an idiot.

Posted by: Adrian at September 22, 2004 05:33 AM

422 Brad, you are not only lunatic but also a mischief monger. Just Shut up.
The American was killed by hateful ideology of Middle East and its murderous people. FULL STOP.

Let us not blame Bush for this. It is naive .... to say the least. Let Americans understand that History can not be undone. Now the reality is that ALL AMERICANS are the target, because Islam considers America as Satan. Let us face to this reality and help Bush to take firm decisions.
The cancer has spread and the cancerous part needs to be cut and thrown away. Just Nuke them and reduce them to rubble. Remember that in the end whole WORLD will thank America and Bush.

All criticisms melt away when America is victorious.

Posted by: Q. Meher at September 22, 2004 05:59 AM

423 Having gone to vietnam 3 times let me add some history to these conversations. 1. After we totally crushed Germany it took 3 years to stop NAZI nut cases from blowing up bridges and killing americans. In 1946(A full year after the end of the war) we had to completely demolish a town with artillery because it was shuch a NAZI stronghold. The only difference in Iraq is the terrorists are FULLY aware of the american news networks and are using this to try to sway american public opinion. They think they can affect the election in their favor,since BUSH scares the hell out of them

Posted by: George at September 22, 2004 06:48 AM

424 I have just read through this thread and as a Brit I am really disturbed by what I am reading here. What the terrorists are doing is evil and wrong, but there is a reason why they despise the west so much. Such hatred is deeply rooted in history and how we in the west...being the civilized nations we are....have forced our will on these nations. Lets not forget that we created Iraq as a state and funded and supported Saddam for decades. Why do we think we have the right to force democracy on a country that has never had it. al queda are the enemy in this war, and Iraq was a way to destract the world from the fact that we can't do anything about them. All the time you are fighting fanatics you can never win and the west knows that so to turn attention away from the fact that we can't get Bin Laden let invade somewhere in the middle east instead.

Posted by: Truebrit at September 22, 2004 08:02 AM

425 It is my belief that the a final crusade is the only solution.

Posted by: The Grub at September 22, 2004 08:10 AM

426 DAMN. I read all of these comments and I wonder if some of you have common sense.

Alot of people say we shouldn't be in Iraq and its a waste of lives, money, resources, etc.


Posted by: Bill Sweeney at September 22, 2004 08:50 AM

427 i have a brother in the army, and it scares me to see what hapend to this guy, the thing is this are just pictures, but if you have satelite and see a spanish or a foreign chanel well my brothers and sisters they show the live event, it was more groosom than these pictures, it got me mad because this poor man cried and screemed until his head was off. im perubian with my brother in the army, i love this country and i consider miself an american and in my opinion we should shirohima theyr asses, some people say what about the other people that live there, well do you remember when we went to free them end rescue them when they were crying out for help? after all that we did for them they desided to grab our flag and burn it, and step an spit on it like it ment nothing, our flag means a lot more than what most people think, for me this flag represents the people that are risking their lives evry day so we can be free, we should take our troops out and let them kill themselves./

Posted by: cm at September 22, 2004 08:51 AM

428 I find it repellent that Americans have now decided that terrorism is abhorant and should be destroyed where ever possible in the world (and those who support it), yet for 35yrs the IRA terrorised Britain with full financial and moral backing of out "allies" in the US. It seems, as ever, its not really an issue to americans unless it directly effects you. 911 just gave you a wake up call to what the rest of the world already face and have done for decades.

Posted by: Truebrit at September 22, 2004 08:59 AM

429 Unable to access the video now.

Posted by: Laura at September 22, 2004 09:01 AM

430 John Stuart Mill said it best over 100 years ago:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

Posted by: Scott at September 22, 2004 09:04 AM

431 I really don't understand all the backing for President Bush. If you want to believe the invasion of Iraq was right, so be it. But the time has long passed where all soldiers should come home. You will never free Iraq, there will always be a Saddam or an Osama...and now there are too many dead soldiers. Clue in!! I hope we don't have another 4 years of this hell.

Posted by: lil_red at September 22, 2004 09:09 AM

432 However, the way to beat these terrorists must come from within Islam itself. These fanatics are corrupting the Muslim faith and the Koran to their own ends and the heads of the true Islamic faith must out these terrorists before the faith as a whole becomes the scapegoat.

Posted by: Truebrit at September 22, 2004 09:12 AM

433 As for you really think you are going to wipe out terrorism??? I think it is you who needs to use your fucking brain!

Posted by: lil_red at September 22, 2004 09:12 AM

434 why do you all fill any kind of comments?There are no comments to do...

Posted by: Mario at September 22, 2004 09:21 AM

435 It is my solemn hope and prayer that this conflict doesn't turn into Vietnam II. The longer this goes on without actually letting the armed forces do the job they have been trained for, which is to do battle, the longer we will be there. As a retired soldier, it was always my hope to go, get the job done, then go home. Who the president is after Nov. 2 will really make little difference. What will matter is how we finish this, getting the right people to run their country, and getting out.

Posted by: Bryant at September 22, 2004 09:22 AM

436 P.S.
Brad's comments made earlier this morning, I'd like to give him some advice. Go get a job with Halliburton.

Posted by: Bryant at September 22, 2004 09:31 AM

437 Nothing but a crazed animal could do such a thing as this beheading.

Posted by: Marty Kinzie at September 22, 2004 09:39 AM

438 until the pepole of the u.s.a. and the world admitt this is a holy war and these pepole want every non muslim dead this will not end.the problem is that even the muslims that would not do these things believ it is ok to the point were they will not help any non muslim lets wake up. (kill them all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)ha,ha

Posted by: big lou at September 22, 2004 09:55 AM

439 youre ok salamander, i like your views and opinions!

Posted by: sherry at September 22, 2004 10:16 AM


Posted by: walmaro at September 22, 2004 10:25 AM

441 The thought of a human being capable of this - makes me sick! For me this is not about Bush or Kerry, it is about the hostages and their families. Can you imagine that being a member of your family?? My husband was suppose to go over there for a "reconstuction project". I thank God every minute that his company didn't get the bid!

Although I am behind Bush 100% - I do think that these guys need an armed guide with them at all times. If we can not provide that type of protection to these workers then we need to halt the reconstruction effort.

Posted by: HNT at September 22, 2004 10:38 AM

442 Ladies and Gentlemen,

These killers will stop at nothing to kill us and our families. It is our responsibility to see this war through. Leaders like George W. Bush and Tony Blair are on the right path it is our responsibility to bring terrorism to its knees. We may never win this war but terrorism has to know that when it appears we will defeat it with what ever means is needed. If we fail to do that our children and our children's children will have to deal with the killers that we are dealing with now. Step up!

Posted by: Patriot at September 22, 2004 11:34 AM

443 Truebrit:


Iraq was divided up after WWI, by Briton's oh-so holy and sacred Sir (TE) Lawrence of Arabia and his lackey Miss Gertrude Bell. They were instrumental in dividing the country up according to geographic, not demographic, regions.

Look Here:

For the most part, you can attribute the hatred the Islamic Fundamentalists harbor toward the West to British imperialism and colonialism of the 19th century. It was Briton, not America, that carved up the Middle East. It was also Briton who sold Palenstinian land to European Jews who invested heavily in the WW2 war effort. That conflict is your mess as well.

America has been cleaning up your messes and bailing out your asses for a century. If it weren't for Americans like my grandfather, you'd all be part of the Third Reich. You Brits are turning into a bunch of nansie-pansie socialists who like to fanny about like the French.

Your Prime Minister has enough sense to know who are his allies. It's too bad the rest of you island monkeys don't. You better hope that your stronger little brother, America, sticks around to protect you from the evils of this world.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 12:27 PM

444 More than Sad but...It Must, How ?
It seems only Al Zarkawi is Regularly doing this...
How about Issuing a pocket size GPS Device to every Westerner in Iraq...Like Onstar for Automobiles so that when someone is taken Hostage they can be located quickly and also so Al Zarkawi can be found and stopped...
This is not an answer to the war but it could catch and stop it's most dangerous Villian...
Just a thought

Posted by: canitbestopped at September 22, 2004 12:54 PM

445 hey guys refering to skourge , s comments on Britain , you are right about how the USA heped us out a time or two , but lets also remember that you as a nation opted to remain neautral in the second world war , and ONLY came active AFTER YOU WERE BOMBED AT PEAR HARBOUR , we as BRITONS have been fighting terror for centuries now [THE IRA] where were America while we were fighting these? the only decent American [clinton] did eventually bring the IRA to the talk table, for this we will be always gratefull , but as in the second world war , the Yanks only decided to spearhead the war on terror AFTER THEY WERE BOMBED ON 9/11, does this not show a pattern then , like saying if it dont affect us we dont give a crap ................

one last leaving note for all you so called AMERICANS , yes you all need to remember your forefathers ...........they were all guilty of TREASON, they took up arms against their soverign country , weather it was to do with , NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, is not a good enough excuse it was treason , like it or lump it , try and rebel against YOUR US GOVERNMENT NOW BECAUSE THEY PUSH A NEW BILL THROUGH THAT YOU OBJECT WITH ,YOU WILL BE TREATED AS TREASONERS PLAIN AND SIMPLE , SO BEFORE YOU SLAG THE BRITS OFF , READ YOUR HISTORY BOOKS GUYS , SORRY BUT IM A PROUD BRITISH GUY , AND SO WERE MY FOREFATHERS BEFORE ME , ...................AND THERE ARE CENTURIES OF THEM , UNLIKE YOURSELVES

Posted by: a hard brit !!!!! at September 22, 2004 01:04 PM

446 Sure, we ALL would love to see world-wide peace in our lifetime. Who wouldn't? At times, I can even understand WHY the Muslim world views America as the "Great Satan". Spend one Saturday evening watching "Mad TV" on the Fox Network to see what peddlers of filth our media outlets have become. Quote; Michael MacDonald as a sleezy movie producer to a black movie starlet wannabe:
" Eeew! Is that peanut butter on your fingers," (as he kisses her hand), "or have you been finger-f--king Shannon Doherty?" It used to be that "Cutting edge T.V." was about things like the Watergate scandal or what really happened in the Iran-Contra Affair. Now it's about pushing the envelope of profanity and what is acceptable to the general Public. And yet they will withhold showing us footage of the Armstrong decapitation or the poor people who jumped from the twin towers before they crumbled, rather than burn to death. Everyone needs standards. Whether you are an American, (be it liberal or conservative), or a national from any other country. Some of the posts preceding this one show that many of us feel anger and hatred are sufficient reason to express ourselves any #@$%&*#$# way we want. Have some dignity. This problem is not going away any time soon. Keeping our eyes peeled is our most important effort now. And believe me, I'm no "armchair quarterback" on this one. I'm a service-connected disabled veteran and I'm as angry about what happened to these two Americans as any of you are. If the war in Iraq has done anything, it has concentrated the activities of the terrorists in THAT part of the world. Thankfully it's not HERE. But eventually it could be. (Look at what happened to those poor kids in that Russian elementary school). I personally doubt that the "insurgents" in Iraq or any of the other terrorist elements can be negotiated with in any sensible way; principly because they act out of a crazed religious passion. Women and children have always been the sad "colateral damage" in warfare. No one wishes that it be so. But these people KNOW who their neighbors are, they know who advocates "Death to the Americans" in their neighborhoods, because these extremists go to great lengths to recruit "fresh meat" into their cause. So when a LGB (Laser-Guided Bomb)flattens their neighborhood, I don't feel quite as much sympathy for them. If they refuse to remove these scumbags from their own midst, then they can expect to be wiped out with them. The cruel reality of the struggle for liberty is, that it is more likely to kill you while you sit on the sidelines than if you become an active participant. You Iraqis want REAL freedom? Then EARN it the old-fashioned way: by spilling some of your own blood! Certainly the neighbors saw what was happening when Armstrong, Henlsey and the Brit were kidnapped. And no one lifted a finger to help these civilians, who by all accounts were there for the BENEFIT of the Iraqi people! As some one said in this blog the other day, "Perhaps the Iraqis DESERVED Saddam". Now I tend to agree.

Mark M

Posted by: Mark M. at September 22, 2004 01:22 PM


Posted by: T. ABROMOWITZ at September 22, 2004 01:37 PM

448 I as an American am speachless. I hope Mr. Bush has seen these images. Stop or fence these diesesed bastards in the middle East!

God bless us all

Posted by: B at September 22, 2004 01:47 PM

449 As a departing shot to "A Hard Brit!!!" let me tell you that it is possible in MY country to stop paying income taxes. IF you know how. Legally. I did it fifteen years ago. It's called "state Citizenship". The process is long and difficult, and the Feds won't let you go without a fight. But it can be done. And just so you know? State Citizenship is the same "kind" of Citizenship the "founding Fathers" had. Long before the 14th Amendment, the 16th Amendment (to the U.S. Constitution) and before the Social Security Act which violates every American's First Amendment Right by changing your citizenship FROM being the state Citizen you were born as to a Corporate entity known as a "person" and as described as being "under the jurisdiction of the United States" (a corporation). And they never tell you. You're NOT a sovereign. Not a freeman. It is the perpetration of a fraud, (for which there is no statute of limitation and is reversible on that basis alone.
So the next time you CLOWNS over in the U.K. want to criticize us Americans, take a closer look at the $6.20 per liter you pay for gas (most of which is tax for the government and your "precious Queen Mother") and you don't have the guts to fight! We pay a third of that!
So long, suckers!
Mark M.

Posted by: Mark M. at September 22, 2004 01:52 PM

450 To the people who insist on invoking the Vietnam conflict:

You will NEVER convince anyone with arguments referring to the lost American lives in Vietnam as proof of that we were stupid to have been there; To make such a claim identifies you as either an ignoramus with no knowledge of the history of the war, or a plain liar. The anti-war movement in those days maintained that the "domino theory" was a lie, but when Congress cut off funding and the U.S. military withdrew from Southeast Asia, the communists in southeast Asia proceeded to slaughter many millions of their own people. This was not warfare; it was casual, passionless, methodical murder of captive populations, their own brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles.

I have NEVER heard a liberal anti-war activist from that time acknowledge that this shows the truth of the "domino theory." Facts mean NOTHING to such people, and they are trying RIGHT NOW to use the same LIES they spread thirty years ago to paint themselves as the people we should trust to be running things.

All the sneering references to Halliburton fail to acknowledge the same sort of assignment of contracts to corporations friendly to Clinton and Gore when THEY were in office. What utter infantile horsecrap. The people out of power now seem to actually believe their own fantasy that the ONLY bad people in the world are Republicans.

When the islamic fanatics come around with their sharpened knives, they will with equal glee saw off the heads of Rush-listening neocoNazis AND liberal commies waving their Fahrenheit 9-11 ticket stubs.

If you think the wisdom and will to impose civilized behavior on brutal regimes resides in the United Nations, keep in mind that it was during Kofi Annan's tenure as Under-Secretary-General for Peacekeeping that the U.N. stood by and did exactly NOTHING about the slaughter of Tutsi citizens by Hutu in Rwanda. According to BBC report (
"On the ground at least, the Rwandans were largely left alone by the international community. UN troops withdrew after the murder of 10 soldiers. "

So the U.N. decamped, allowing the Hutu to proceed with the massacres. Many of the EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND victims were dispatched by machetes and picks and axes, when a few U.N. detachments with small arms could have stopped it.

Posted by: David March, animator & fiddler at September 22, 2004 01:56 PM

451 I've been following this comment thread for the past couple of days and have been simply amazed at some of the opinions thrown out there. Interesting stuff as to how some people get it and some people refuse to see the obvious. I've kept silent until now, but "Hard Brit's" comments are way entirely too over the top to go unchallenged.

You my dear, "Hard Brit," are the one who needs to remember their history. While the US may not have become directly involved in WWII until after Pearl Harbor, where did the majority of the material and food come from for the war effort before 1942? Oh, why yes, that would be from here: The United States of America. It was called Lend Lease. Go look it up. As far as the UK's battle against the IRA is concerned, well, it might surprise you to know that a lot of Americans feel that the UK has absolutely no business being in Northern Ireland. That your country is illegally occupying a piece of territory that isn't justifiably yours, William of Orange's conquering capabilities notwithstanding. Perhaps you should open your eyes and see that it was an act of friendship toward your country that we kept ourselves silent, yet on your side, and that when the opportunity to help in a peace process made itself available, that we helped, rather than stayed out of it.

As far as the charges of "treason" you seem to still be holding us accountable for, two hundred and some odd years later, well, that's just rubbish. Our forefathers chose to break with belief in the Divine Right of Kings, which is a delusion of such a grand scale I have a hard time believing people actually buy it these days. Do you honestly believe that Queen Elizabeth II was plopped down on the throne by God? Your comment leads me to believe that you do. Well, our forefathers believed that no one need be under the thumb of a King who was certifiably insane and a parliament who wanted as much as they could get without giving anything in return. If England's government at the time was set up so that Parliament could be a check on Royal Power, it was also set up so that the King could reel in Parliament. Neither was willing to rein themselves in. My forefathers were more than justified in breaking away. Where no faith is given, none shall be returned. Just in the spirit of human rights, whose forefathers and ancient leaders were correct on the matter? Yours or mine?

While I have nothing but respect for England and her current leaders, I don't have much respect for you. I'm sorry, but really. Treason? That's the best you could come up with? While your anger at earlier comments was justified, this doesn't mean you should throw illogical, insulting, arguments out there. We have plenty of those floating around and it doesn't solve anything. So, think hard before you go pointing fingers and questioning who does more for whom. This is like any friendship: sometimes you give more than you get; sometimes its the other way round, yet everything balances out in the end. England and America will be friends for years to come because we believe in the same things, even if we don't believe in accomplishing our goals in the same way. Because that's the way friendship works. It's not always perfect, but it's what we've got.

Posted by: Kathy at September 22, 2004 02:00 PM


You ignorant sod!

Let me say two words: Neville Chamberlin. (Talk about the proverbial ostrich in the sand.)

When you brush up on your post-modern history, then we can have an intelligent conversation.

It was British colonialism, not American, that caused the current state of affairs.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 02:06 PM

453 My thoughts and prayers go out to his family and all the families affected by this war. I am very angry and hope those who did this crime are caught by Americans and dealth with accordingly and fell the pain which they have cause. I pray that President Bush stays strong and finishes the job at hand. I call on all Americans to stay strong and supportive of our government and their decisions. Every action has a counter action and our counter action will come soon.

Posted by: James at September 22, 2004 02:16 PM

454 i have not been onto this site til now but i was reading up on the comments and this is what I believe being a Jewish person seeing this coming from a long time ago. This "stuff" I use the word because it is so horrible I do not want to start naming things, has been happening for years and years, It just hasent happened to Americans so we put it aside almost ignored it. More then Vietnam or any other war most people are thinking of, it reminds me of World War Two. Before Japan attacked America, it ignored the horrible events that happened in Germany, Poland and the rest of the world. After we entered, the Germans had done so much damage, it took quite a while to stop them. While there are no concentration camps going on that we as America know of, horrible events that are crimes against humanity have been going on. What always must be remembered is that America is responsible to police the world because sometimes people dont know any better then what they see and a vicious cycle of horrible events occur. Now do I think we should have gone in and attacked them with men? No, Bush ignored history and went in anyway. In was a known fact that the terrorists were suicide bombers who thought nothing of giving up their own lives much less the lives of anyone else. Just as the kamikazes in World War Two. Most see the U.N. as useless, but are ignoring what it has done. It has put together countries that would not be talking otherwise. Now if America ignores it, other countries will also not want to be a part of it, but if America strongly supports it then other countries may gain more faith in it. America can not just join something becuase it is going well, they need to show some initiative for once or the vicious cycle of the world will continue. Sure America has always saved the day at the end, but why did it always have to wait for the end?

Posted by: lazmir at September 22, 2004 02:54 PM

455 Blow up the whole damn country full of those sick son of a bitches

Posted by: GOD at September 22, 2004 03:04 PM

456 I spent forever looking for these pics and I wish I hadn't. No one deserves to die like one. The US should not give up on the fight against terror, they seem to be the only ones going about it anyway. The world will be so much safer with scum like Al Zarqawi dead. Hear this Al Zarqawi, you and your gang are cowards, step up to a US marine or Green Beret and see how much of this Mu*****hedeen speech you can give before they cut you down. Shame on Islam that stands by and wathces with glee as civilians are "Slaugthered". Evil cannot prevail, never has, never will!!!

Posted by: Peterson at September 22, 2004 03:25 PM

457 The sad fact is that it is all about oil. If it wasn't for the oil in the mid-east this area would receive as much interest from us un-involved Americans as we show toward the problems in Sudan, Somalia, etc. Something to think about next time you have to fill the gas tanks of your Hummers and Expeditions and all those other wonderful macho-mobiles that get 12 MPG.

Posted by: Bill at September 22, 2004 03:27 PM

458 Nothing much to do with this BLOG's initial starting point but I'm a Brit and I find this USA V UK stuff a bit pointless.

FFS, we're on the same side here! The UK is merely a pinprick on the world map, the USA is a mighty giant. I'm patriotic but no fool. If we started a fight with the US, we would lose within a week!

It just so happens that we have a great many things in common and we could live together and no one would know the difference if accents were put aside.

I know your President Bush comes in for a lot of criticism both home and abroad but he impressed me greatly with his speech the other day.

To stand before the United Nations Committee, who sat with impassive/negative looks on their faces and be so defiant, strong and determined made even ME proud.

He got one of the shortest ovations ever for his speech but it was one of the most important in history.

Allies of the Western World should be proud to have this man at the helm of the USA Government.

When we seee senseless acts of barbarity such as the Eugene Armstrong video, we NEED someone to be strong and tell us we will NOT give up this fight until it is won, that we needn't fear for our future safety and the safety of our children and their children because this is going to be seen through to the finish and basically that we aren't suddenly going to go all limp-wristed and start acceding to these barbarians demands and let them ride rough-shod over everything the Western world has struggled and strived to achieve for many many years.

As I say, I am a Brit. I don't like Tony Blair much, his government is falling apart but the one thing that has got my support over the last few years has been his "shoulder to shoulder" stance with our American friends and Allies.

Posted by: Red Devil at September 22, 2004 03:31 PM

459 It seems as if America is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't.

I read criticism that America is a tyrant because its military invaded Iraq. I read criticism that America is selfish because it didn't act quickly enough in Iraq, Bosnia, and WWII.

Frankly, I'm sick of the America-bashing that's become so prevalent in Canada and Europe. What does it take to appease you people? America dispenses 100 times as much charitable aid than all other developed countries combined. America loses 100 times as many young men policing the world than all other developed countries combined.

What would become of the world if America stopped feeding the world? What would become of the world if America stopped interceding in conflicts between hostile nations and ethnic groups. What would happen to the world if America closed its borders and became an isolationist nation?

I'll tell you what would happen - CHAOS. North Korea would attack South Korea and Japan. Pakistan and India would exchange nuclear warheads. Ethnic rivals throughout the world would attempt to settle old scores. Death, destruction, and tyranny would reign.

Since the conclusion of WWII, America has strived to make the world a better place. Granted, not all of its efforts succeeded as intended, but at least it made the effort. How many countries can make the same claim? Not many!

I'm proud of my country and I'm proud to be an American. Those people and nations critical of America are like Monday morning quarterbacks. They love to criticize and blame, but lack the fortitude to take the hits themselves.

-Remember Pat Tillman-

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 03:39 PM

460 Although my words will do little to ease the pain of those close to the victims, I want to say that my heart goes out to them. It is very sad to see that human beings (though I find it testing to call them that at the moment) can be so sick with hatred that they feel proud of the abonimations that they carry out.

Posted by: Ann at September 22, 2004 03:43 PM

461 That video was horrific beyond imagination. I felt genuinely physically sick after that and I really wished I hadn't watched it. How must Eugene Armstrongs' family be feeling knowing (a) he was butchered in such a barbaric way and (b) knowing this video is being shown on the web.

KATHY-a simple lesson in history. Britain is comprised of four countries: Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales. To quote "While I have nothing but respect for England and her current leaders......." and "England and America will be friends for years to come because we believe in the same things". Erm, have us Scots, Irish and Welsh just suddenly disappeared? Please get your facts right. By the way, half the royal family are Scottish and Mr Blair is also a Scot.

Posted by: Scot and British at September 22, 2004 03:55 PM

462 Bush declared that his 'war on terrorism' was making the World a safer place. Nothing could be further from the truth. And now it seems the terrorists are gaining the upper hand. Oh dear, don't say you were never warned!

Bush and Blair should NEVER be forgiven for this

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 03:56 PM

463 The Bible is "everyone's" law book. Whether you believe it is, whether you do not believe it.
It is!!! The Bible says in Revelation that there will be an end of time. It says that we will know when the time is near because "all" not some, not a few, but "all" eyes will be, not might be but "will be" on the Middle East. Would you agree that all eyes are on the Middle East.
Get ready for the judgement day be yea Americans or Iraqies, Terriorist, "all" man kind. Jesus is coming and you will either spend your eternity in Heaven "Paradise" or Hell. Where will you Be? We pray for our boys and want them home. We are heart broken for the families of those beheaded. Jesus Is Lord!!

Posted by: Norma Allbright at September 22, 2004 04:04 PM

464 CoogarUK:

You are also another citizen of the UK that needs a history lesson concerning Briton's legacy in colonializing the Middle East. (See my previous posts.)

The terrorists are not getting the upper hand. They are acting out of desperation. You are a terribly misinformed person.

And furthermore, it's not your responsibility to determine who should and should not be forgiven.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 04:08 PM

465 1) I do not need a history lesson.

2) If the terrorists are acting out of desperation then how are they able to kidnap and decapitate westerners at will and apparently we have no way of stopping them?

3) why is America so fucked up and so many of its citizens misinformed?

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:16 PM

466 I have seen two contradiction-in-terms on this page

1) when people talk of "American Intelligence"

2) when Americans talk of giving a "history lesson". I have house built in the 1970's. That would be classed as a listed building in the US. What history and tradition do you have? Your laws come from a constitution - what does that mean? It mean unelected judges make decision of law.
Where is the democracy there?

Posted by: Dan uk at September 22, 2004 04:23 PM

467 Its all too sad. Tears have not stopped running down my face

Posted by: alex at September 22, 2004 04:25 PM

468 Maybe a few history lessons would help prevent America from repeating the same mistakes over and over and over...

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:27 PM

469 CoogarUK

Quoting you:
"...America so fucked up and so many of its citizens misinformed."

You are quite an intelligent lad aren't you? You use big words like F*&$. I'm impressed.

Tell me, brainiac, are all Brits as educated and eloquent as yourself? And are all Americans as ignorant as myself?

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 04:30 PM

470 why dont they release the women, and then go bomb the whole county??? thats the most logic thing to do as all they cause is trouble! It shows american and Britain are not to be messed with?? they will get what they want (prisioners being released) and by the time the nuclear bombs hit they wont know!!! hahaaaa haha

Posted by: holly barnes at September 22, 2004 04:33 PM

471 I totally agree with you CoogarUK. You voice the sentiments of many although obviously not here.

The war in Iraq has transpired into a total mess and quite frankly, it has been like pouring petrol onto a fire. I initially supported the war although I never agreed with Blair's lapdog support of Bush. I feel let down, cheated and lied to about why we went to war. The removal of Saddam, nobody can deny, has been the only good thing to come out of this nightmare however, this has only given way for more terrorist faction groups being allowed to terrorise Iraq and the world even more. This is one total mess.

Hands up, I admit I wished I had an answer for it all. My final questions are: The war on terrorism, when is it going to stop? How many terrorist network cells operate in the world and do Bush and Blair think they can eradicate them all?

Posted by: scot and brit at September 22, 2004 04:33 PM

472 Dan UK:

The United States is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic. I'm amazed at the lack of education being demonstrated by our UK friends.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 04:36 PM

473 Oh yes, I'd forgotten how you Americans so hate the word fuck, yet have no censorship laws when it comes to DVD/video (hence 'unrated' versions).

Like I said... totally fucked up world in which you live in!

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:37 PM

474 They DID bomb the whole countRy. If you recall, that didn't work. Have any other brilliant ideas?

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:40 PM

475 "The United States is not a Democracy".

You heard it here first... from an American (I assume)

I would go one step further... America has become a Fascist state.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:43 PM

476 Coog, man, you high and mighty brits need to take a lesson from your Queen, be quiet. Much of the world was once your oyster... did you spread freedom to the peoples of your colonies or did they have to fight you for it? The dream and hope of personal and political freedom spreading throughout the world is happening for only one reason. The U.S. exists. (in all our ignorance)

Did you ever stop to think that the U.S. Government (military) had nothing to do with the security of these foreigners who keep getting kidnapped? They are being paid handsomely to be there and they know the risks. The U.S. is not responsible for their safety!

If you were actually well-informed, you would know that a terrorist with a well-thoughtout plan who is intent on "getting you" and who has the element of surprise will most likely "get you." There are how many contractors in Iraq? Thousands? And we are surprised that one or two a month are getting kidnapped and brutally murdered? It's bad. But it's not an epidemic. And don't forget... they are volunteering to go into a WAR ZONE.

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 04:45 PM

477 CoogarUK:

I hadn't noticed that the country and state in which I live was so bad.

I'm so glad that you were able to enlighten me as to my current environment.

I hadn't noticed how bad clean air, fresh water, and abundant food sources were for me and my family. Goodness, if I had only known how ugly the mountain range in my backyard was, I wouldn't have purchased my home. I suppose I should leave this fetid woodland and move to the pastoral realms of London.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 04:47 PM

478 This madness is wrong... how can these people murder and yet be pround of such act?

Besides, is easy to blame Bush for this, but remember, this people dont care whos in the white house, they think americans are the evil of this planet, they will just continue killing and murdering until somebody stops them, thats why i dont attack the president, yet i disagree with him.

Prayers for the family of Eugene.

Posted by: Enrique at September 22, 2004 04:48 PM

479 WAR ZONE? but that cannot be true, for the war has been over for some considerable time LOL

As for these 'foreigners' you refer to... Not only (in your words) is the US not responsible for their safety, but it now appears you have disowned them!

And would they be being kidnapped if Bush had not invaded Iraq? I don't think so!!!

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:51 PM

480 CoogarUK:

You Brits couldn't see facism coming in 1930. What makes you think you can see it now?

"Oh please America, save us from Germany. Save us from the mess we created at Versailles."

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 04:54 PM

481 Coog, you probably shouldn't get started debating forms of government. For crying out loud, you are ruled by a monarch. Albiet a monarch with no real power, which is even more rediculous. You pay your high taxes to keep her family sitting happily on their royal throne. Can anyone explain the sense in that?

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 04:54 PM

482 Skourge you obviously don't get out much. Take those rose-tinted glasses off for a mo

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:55 PM

483 The human mind is so fickle; it is clear that we have all forgotten the intense horror of September 11th. The anger that was felt then has somewhat diminished over the last few years but the one all-abiding lesson that should be learnt is that it is the ability to be pre-emptive that will determine if you succeed against the fanatic.
President Bush is not my Head of State but I support him and his administration in the war against terror.
In the West we have the freedom to enhance our lives to the Nth degree. This freedom has to be protected.
The invasion of Afghanistan was essential to destroy the Taliban sponsored training camps,try to apprehend bin Laden and of course force regime change. The invasion of Iraq, I admit, could have been portrayed with different reasons ( namely necessary regime change as a result of consistent flouting UN Resolutions )but ladies and gentlemen once you commit your sons and daughters to fight; YOU SUPPORT THEM 150% OF THE WAY.
Nothing is more demoralising to a young soldier than to know that his country is divided on the justification for his precarious presence in a foreign land.
The people who murdered Eugene are motivated by the most medieval-like hatred. They are consumed by a desire to destroy in the name of Islam and what their fellow Islamists did on September 11th brings me full tilt to what I referred to earlier on.....before this becomes a quagmire the use of tactical nuclear weapons should be used against those states or those clearly defined parts of states, that, through incontrovertible evidence, are judged to be likely to attack your own country.
Are we going to wait before Iran and North Korea develop nuclear weapons? Are we going to tolerate a fundamentalist coup in nuclear weapon proficient Pakistan?
This is all about our desire to survive and our propulsion to dictate the course of our own lives. Do we as westerners possess this or does the Al-Qaeda operative have a more powerful sense of worth?
I will pray for Eugene and for the inevitable others.

Posted by: James Cadogan-Tate at September 22, 2004 04:56 PM

484 Yeah, and what did you do? Bugger all until Japan attacked you.

Allow me to quote from Goebbels diary

The Fuhrer is immensley happy, the entry [into poland] has gone according to plan... The fuhrer beams. England remains passive. France won't act alone. Italy is disappointing and America uninterested

Hmmmmmmmm. What do you say now Skourge? Something self aggrandizing no doubt?

Posted by: Jan at September 22, 2004 04:57 PM

485 Coogar UK:

Only the French lack of gratitude exceeds that of the British for what America did in WWII.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 04:58 PM

486 Blackboots.

Firstly, I don't ever recall starting a debate on different forms of Government.

Secondly, for every penny our Royal family costs, we get back many pounds from the jealous American tourists who constantly flock here in their droves in search of some proper culture!

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 04:58 PM

487 Ok, so because we don't give in to terrorist demands like the Spanish, we are now guilty of disowning those who are brutally murdered? That's European logic for you...

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 04:59 PM

488 Skourge, don't get me started on WWII... America refused to get involved until it was attacked at Pearl Harbor.

Self-interest is the only reason America EVER goes to war.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:00 PM

489 Blackboot

The reason we pay high taxes is because we have a decent Social Security system and a National Health Service, admired throughout the world. What do you have? Medicare????

We don't let the poor go without proper care, and private medical insurance is a luxury NOT a neccessity!

Posted by: Jan at September 22, 2004 05:01 PM

490 Oh, my dear man! It's not jealousy. It's entertainment. Similar to visiting a petting zoo...

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 05:02 PM

491 Jan:

Who do you think funded the Battle of Britain?

Remember the Lusitania?

Quoting a madman's journal does not make an effective argument that America was not inclined to help its allies.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 05:04 PM

492 Erm, wasn't it the French who bailed the Yanks out against the British...?

You reap what you sow.

Posted by: auntiedom at September 22, 2004 05:05 PM

493 Entertainment? Call it what you will, the bottom line is that it more than pays for itself.

Further, I don't recall the Spanish giving in to terrorism. Are you referring to a certain recent DEMOCRATIC election? Hmmm, let's just wait and see what happens in November, shall we? ;)

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:06 PM

494 Ya know, one way to solve this whole ordeal is to pull all American's out of Iraq and nuke there asses. I hope those murderers ROT IN HELL....

Posted by: Christina Wilson at September 22, 2004 05:08 PM

495 Coogar UK

Quoting you:
"Self-interest is the only reason America EVER goes to war."

As oppossed to Britain's compassionate attempt to colonize the entire world?

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 05:09 PM

496 These sick bastards need to be blasted back to the stoneage, the whole god damned nation as far as I am concerned...kill all the Iraq SOB' it now USA

Posted by: tom at September 22, 2004 05:11 PM

497 Again, perfect European logic. Social Security? Come now. Are you suggesting that your government knows better how to spend your own money than you do?

Your ignorance shows once again. Contrary to your socialist lies, no one is turned away from U.S. hospitals because they don't have insurance. That is a bold faced lie propagated by socialists like yourself. We still offer the best medicine, bar none, in the world. Britian comes a close second or third...

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 05:11 PM

498 "...nuke their asses..."

Yep, America's answer to everything it seems. And still they don't get it... thick or what?

As for the murderers Bush and Blair rotting in hell... that's a bit extreme don't you feel?

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:12 PM

499 Attempt? How rude! I think you'll find they actually did it!

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:14 PM

500 Auntiedom:

The French didn't send troops to aid in the American Revolutionary War until the seige of Yorktown. It was a foregone conclusion by that time.

They did send arms and "mercenary" military advisors throughout the war, however.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 05:16 PM

501 As opposed to the US compassionate attempt to police the world? Check this out:

Posted by: auntiedom at September 22, 2004 05:18 PM

502 As for the Spanish... I refer to them tucking their tails and running when the going got tough in Iraq. The terrorists kidnapped some Spaniards and threatened to kill them if the Spanish didn't leave Iraq. Well, that's exactly what the Spanish did. Some allies they turned out to be. Then some terrorists blew up a train and killed a bunch of people and again, the Spaniards ran. They elected someone who would appease the terrorists. They gave in all right. Lock, stock, and barrel.

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 05:18 PM

503 Ahhhh, so contrary to popular, political and historical belief, America was going to come and save the world? My mistake, I do apologise.

I accept you know your history (probably far better than I, though WW2 on I know a fair bit), but this gets us no where. I have read your previous posts (and i invite you to read mine) and I agree with a fair amount with what you have to say. Not sure about the 'Socialists' and 'island monkeys' bit, America doesn't really have socialism and I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with the other comment. Two things I will say

1) The majority of people didn't want to go to war in Iraq and Blair is paying a heavy political price for his decision.

2) The kidnappers do not represent Islam and all muslims are not psychopaths, which unfortunately seems to be a popular opinion.

Posted by: Jan at September 22, 2004 05:19 PM

504 Blackboots, at least we have a history and culture. Don't you realise that the arrogance portrayed in your posts is one of the reasons many people mistrust and dislike the US? It's the arrogant and "I am bigger and better than you" attitude that provokes this irritation.

Posted by: scot and brit at September 22, 2004 05:20 PM

505 muslims are fucking bastards thats all i've got to say...they are like a virus in this world..imagine a world without them...there would be only peace

Posted by: kieran at September 22, 2004 05:21 PM

506 blackboots, what you say about the Spanish people is contemptible.

I recall alot of Americans running scared on 11th September 2001

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:22 PM

507 Muslims are not fucking bastards. Some are. Jews are not fucking bastards. Some are. Christians are not fucking bastards. Some are. And so on...

Posted by: auntiedom at September 22, 2004 05:23 PM

508 The problems are many and so sadly from failure to accept advice from military leaders who are trained professionals in these matters.

The cure: 400-500 thousand soldiers to SECURE the territory vs observing it. An iron fist approach to pockets of resistance, period. The ability to impose military curfew at will, period. Execution of insurgents caught by way of speedy military trials, period. No religious locations will receive sanctuary status, any attack from such a site will be eligible for total destruction in a firefight.

When your enemy comes to fear you for your ferocity and destructiveness, regardless of "collateral damages," then he/she will respect you and give you wide berth in the knowledge that you are not afraid to kill with abandon. We are not respected because we are fighting a "kinder gentler" war with "compassionate conservatism."

May I offer a film, "Apocalypse Now," as an analogy of my point. When we are viewed as being capable of being more barbaric than the barbarian (from his viewpoint), he will fear us. If it means "daisy cutters," neutron bombs on cruise missiles or whatever it takes, SO BE IT.

This problem can be corrected, but it takes an iron fist and manpower to do it. You cannot reason with the Arab mind in the Western way. For when angered, it cannot reason. That is the culture of the middle east. For those of you who have lived outside the Western countries in developing ones, you will recognize the term I originated called "third world thinking." Combine with Islam and the combo is like a mule that stiffens his neck and will not cooperate with any directions. And so one must show whom is the master and whom the servant. Crude and offensive to many finer sensibilities, but true.

However is next elected (by the electorate or a court) to the Presidency should expect to move heaven and earth to get this situation controlled.

Posted by: Huckleberry at September 22, 2004 05:25 PM

509 Yep, let's get rid of all Muslims, and the world will see nothing but peace for ever thereafter.

How fucking arrogant can you get?!

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:25 PM

510 Blackboots.

I doubt you know what a socialist actually is. The impression I get is that a socialist to you is anyone that doesn't vote for Bush.

I am no socialist, I believe in a mixed economy, free health care at the point of consumption and market forces where the market can adequately provide.

Sweeping statements like "perfect european logic" only highlight what a bigoted insulated individual you are.

Yes, I am saying the government knows how to spend my money better than I do, because I don't know how to provide healthcare for an unemployed disabled adult. Do you?

Socialism isn't just free health care and high taxes for the mega-earners, socialism is a political philosophy which is so far removed from anything in America (remember senator Joseph MaCarthy). Michael Moore is branded a socialist. He's a moderate liberal NOT a socialist.

I don't mind being called ignorant when I genuinely don't know what I'm on about, but I take exception to your blantent stupidity.

Posted by: Jan at September 22, 2004 05:27 PM

511 No terrorist organisation is ever going to fear the USA, however MORE barbaric you become.

Once again, you just don't seem to get it.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:27 PM

512 The majority of Americans are insulated, if not bigoted.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 05:30 PM

513 How would residents of the *occupying* countries of Iraq feel if there were Iraqi troops marching up and down their home streets, killing and maiming citizens and villagers?

Bush assured us that the war is over. So be it. You have Saddam, now get out of Iraq.

Posted by: auntiedom at September 22, 2004 05:30 PM

514 Just like all debates without discipline the discussion has now descended into farce. No doubt the Al-Qaeda recruit who may be looking at this can rub his hands with glee-his compatriots have in his view achieved a glorious religious act by brutalising Eugene and the westerners who should be riling against this are in fact in the throws of a talk on the superiority or otherwise of one form of government over another and the failure to react to past fascism.

Posted by: James Cadogan-Tate at September 22, 2004 05:33 PM

515 Jan:

I never made any comments catagorizing all Muslims as terrorists. That would be an ridiculous assertion.

My issue is with those Europeans (especially Brits) who point their finger at America and blame it for the world's woes.

From a historical perspective, the conflicts arising in the Middle East stem from European colonialism of the 19th century, not American policing.

There is also the Isaac and Ishmael thing, but I'm not going into that here.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 05:33 PM

516 Coogar UK:

Quoting you:
"The majority of Americans are insulated, if not bigoted."

That is a ridiculous assertion! You are the bigot!

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 05:37 PM

517 Yes, I realize that. I never intended those comments to be directed at you. More, it was a vauge attempt to get this thread 'back on topic'. You will notice from my other posts, that all of my posts yesterday concerned the issue of not blaming all muslims. In no way was it critical of you.

I do blame the US and the UK governments for this mess, but I don't hold a view that it is YOUR fault as a US citizen. I do take great exception to americans thinking they are the saviour of world peace, but that is a seperate issue.

Hope that has cleared it up.

Posted by: Jan at September 22, 2004 05:37 PM

518 >I do take great exception to americans thinking >they are the saviour of world peace, but that is >a seperate issue.

I agree totally.

And I do pray for Eugene's family and the rest of the poor sods that have lost their lives.

Posted by: auntiedom at September 22, 2004 05:41 PM

519 Coog, contemptable or not, it is historical fact. Their election was swayed by terrorist events.

See, the difference between American justice (misunderstood the world around) is that when we are attacked, we take the attackers to task. The Spanish, they roll over. So apparently would the Coogars, and the scot and brit's of the world.

S & B, what does the U.S. want from the rest of the world that the world has to fear? We want freedom and peace for all mankind. We differ in opinion on how to go about that. You would appease the terrorists to bring about peace which only prolongs and encourages their growth and power. We would eliminate and stomp the hell out of freakin terrorist and then have peace. Like Teddy Roosevelt once said, "walk lightly and carry a big stick." Well, we can't walk lightly anymore. We were attacked and we must make our own peace. The U.S. was instumental in ridding the world of the communist threat of the USSR and only through brandishing our big stick. We didn't have to use it at all. (speaking of the Cold War) The world will be better off if we can rid ourselves of every terrorist. Failing to exterminate them all, we will get as many as we can.

Ask yourself this, what does a terrorist stand for? Peace and freedom for it's people, or is it more historical oppression? What is the U.S. attmepting to do? Set up an oppressive state, or a free state?

If you support ending the war now, you support the terrorists. If you never supported going to war, you supported the terrorists. Freedom isn't free and sometimes blood must be spilled. The world will reap the benefit the U.S. and our willing allies are paying for with our own blood.

You call my attitude arrogance? Fine. I call it self-assuredness. I call it singleness of purpose. I call it believing in something greater than my own life. The rest of the world doesn't have a leg to stand on when we talk about spreading freedom. The German and Japanese people are better of today because we dominated them when they picked a fight. Our track record speaks volumes of our willingness to set a mis-guided people on the correct track of individual liberty and freedom. Can we be faulted for that?

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 05:44 PM

520 How pathetic people are on here!!! hahahahaha dont you all see!! its because were not muslim and to that stupid idiot that said bomb all muslims, dont you see!! your just like them!!! they want to kill all non muslims. the muslim religion is not a bad one. im not muslim but the muslim god is just like a christian god but there are some people that take the religion to far!!! and want everyone to be the same. i have seen so many bad things happen in iraq!! soldiers shoot dead inocent civilians!! how cruel is that! ive seen western soldiers just kill normal iraqis and people that see that from iraq are thinking just the same about us!! ' you animals' there thinking the same as what we are about them!! it wont ever end because it is these extremist faults for wanting everyone muslim, it will never ever change!! expect more attacks, on London, New york............. THEY WILL NOT STOP!

Posted by: iAN at September 22, 2004 05:53 PM

521 Jan:

Yes, poor decisions have been made by both the US and UK governments regarding terrorism and the war in Iraq. Poor decisions were also made at the end of both world wars regarding geo-political parceling of sovereign lands.

Do I think the US is an evil empire? No! Do I think that 19th century Britain was an evil empire? No! Would the world be better off if the US became an isolationalist nation? No! Do I relish paying taxes so my government can police the world? No! Do I relish paying taxes so my government can hunt down the perpetrators of 9/11? Absolutely!

Despite what many Canadians and Europeans may think, America is not an evil empire. And Americans are not stupid and war-like. Our institutions of higher learning are equal to Europe's and surpass Canada's. There are plenty of intelligent, learned people in America. And the average American is certainly better educated than Coogar UK.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 05:56 PM

522 Black boots!! the Brits dont role over and take any crap thats why we owned a bloody empire! thatw why we have defended our shores for thousands and thousands of years and we do still. how dare you say that!

Posted by: John at September 22, 2004 05:59 PM

523 Blackboots, the thing is, as I mentioned in an earlier post, where does the war on terror end? Do Bush and Blair think they are going to eradicate all terrorist groups?

Look, at the end of the day, all I am saying is this is a complete nightmare situation and god knows how it is going to be resolved now. As I also stated earlier, I did support the invasion of Iraq but I was under the impression the reason for doing so was to rid the place of WoMD. Turns out this was a lie and nobody likes being lied to but then again, all governments, regardless of origin of country, are good at lying.

These brutal beheadings of western civilians are just going to increase and inevitable attacks on western soils are going to increase too.

I dont know what the answer is but I just feel the attack on Iraq, in hindsight, has opened up a can of worms and I really fear for the future.

Posted by: scot and brit at September 22, 2004 06:03 PM

524 A mans dead, move on. nothing can be done and people saying that America is the best, better than everyone else is just what i would expect from you. you really are fools and you stil all make me laugh even today. the whole world takes the piss out of you!

England and the UK people are the most highly edgucated people in the world...shame you think all americans are the best...The UK has a population of 64 million over 46 million run there own buisness and are earning upwards of a million so stupid how america thinks there just the best, yea your good but you aint all that!

Posted by: allie from france at September 22, 2004 06:07 PM

525 I would agree with John. The Brits won't ever back down from a fight.

I do believe they need to assume more responsibility for the current state of world affairs than the do.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:07 PM

526 >>we take the attackers to task. The Spanish, they roll over. So apparently would the Coogars, and the scot and brit's of the world.>Ask yourself this, what does a terrorist stand for?

Posted by: El Campesino at September 22, 2004 06:08 PM

527 >>we take the attackers to task. The Spanish, they roll over. So apparently would the Coogars, and the scot and brit's of the world.

Apparently not. Ever heard of ETA or PIRA?

>>Ask yourself this, what does a terrorist stand for?
More oppression in the case of the US-backed Contras. You remember them, don't you?

You're attitude and world view are, without question, perverted in the extreme. 9/11 didn't just happen in isolation. It was engineered by the US's own flawed policies of 'manifest destiny'. Do you recall that Bin Laden was once 'your kinda guy'? Trained and financed by you until he stopped toeing the RepubliCrat party line; rather like Saddam, eh? The simple fact is that the US is guilty of crimes of state terrorism without number, starting in 1945 up to 2004. How else can you explain how US has degenerated from being the most admired and loved nation in the world in 1945 to being utterly loathed by the same world in 2004?

Posted by: El Campesino at September 22, 2004 06:09 PM

528 Blackboots

America funded the IRA (one of the most active terrorist groups of my generation... and still we didn't 'roll over'

Like I said, American's are confused, misinformed and it seems misguided at times

As for responding to attacks, America has no fucking idea who was responsible for 9/11... it certainly wasn't Iraq!

As for skourge, I see s(he) has to constantly resort to personal insults, which I simply will not rise to.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 06:13 PM

529 John, I didn't say Brits role over. I said the Coog's and S & B's of the world. (it sounds like they just happen to be Brits. They could just as well be German, or Spanish. It doesn't really matter what nationality.)

The British empire was truely magnificant in it's time. But you can't compare what the U.S. is attempting to do with anything else that has happened in history. (We don't take over countries and keep them. It might make our current job easier if we had of kept Germany, but the fact of the matter is that they oppose us and that they even exist as a viable power in the world is due to their being rebuilt by the U.S. at the end of WWII.) The British empire was a hegemony. They were no different than any other conquerers throughout history. The U.S. is not hegemonial, contrary to the socialist retoric of Europe and the U.N. We don't want a 51st State. We don't want to tell the Iraqi people how to live. We just want them to be able to govern themselves without threatening us or our allies.

Some British people are with the U.S. in the war on terror. Some are not. Those that aren't are blind to human nature or seriously misguided. You don't appease a bully. Bullies take property, establish territory for their own and are a menace to others. Is that an accurate description of the U.S. or of the various terrorist organizations (or the countries that support them) around the world. How you answer that question speaks volumes about how you see human nature and how you see the world. If the U.S. is the bully, what do you call the individuals who cut off heads for political gain?

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 06:17 PM

530 Allie from France:

You are really something else. How can you catagorize all Americans as this or that? America has the most diverse culture in the world. America has outstanding institutions of higher learning: the Ivy League Schools, MIT, Stanford, and Cal-Berkeley.

Your sweeping generalizations of Americans demonstrates your own ignorance. You arrogant Euros think all Americans live in trailer homes, drink Budweiser beer, and have sex with their cousins. You're wrong!

Every year, more people wish to gain American citizenship than French? Why is that? I'll tell you why - opportunity. Opportunity and acceptance that can't be found in France.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:22 PM

531 sorry black boots ild only just saw this chat taking place and didnt realise you were refering to the people on here 'couger UK' am sorry sir and i do deeply apoligize for jumping the gun.

Posted by: john at September 22, 2004 06:23 PM

532 I suppose the simple, and yet accurate, answer to your final question is that both of you are bullies. They do their bullying in one way and you do yours in another.

For example: the so-called 'Texas War of Independence'. Brought about by a gang of criminals and opportunists for personal gain; the US war against Mexico for pretty much similar reasons. And every other piece of US expansionism in the American continent. Of course you don't want have the trouble of occupying a country! Much easier to back a repressive government of indigenous personnel to facilitate 'cultural' imperialism. Exactly what your own gang of criminals is trying to bring about in Iraq just now. A government staffed by 'our kinda guys' who you can get rid of if they stop following Whitehouse instructions. You yanks are a bloody shower.

Posted by: El Campesino at September 22, 2004 06:27 PM

533 thats right Skourge, france is the most badest place to be, how can that person sit back and even reply to this forum!! I read in the paper the other day that the U.N have spent 54 million in the last year sending packages to spain and they have to also send 200 people along with the package so france can sign it!! to say they acept the war!! bloody french

Posted by: john at September 22, 2004 06:28 PM

534 thats right Skourge, france is the most badest place to be, how can that person sit back and even reply to this forum!! I read in the paper the other day that the U.N have spent 54 million in the last year sending packages to spain and they have to also send 200 people along with the package so france can sign it!! to say they acept the war!! bloody french. the french should shut there mouths!!! they aint even got one man in the war!! not one soldier!

Posted by: john at September 22, 2004 06:29 PM

535 Coogar UK:

It's obvious you hate America. Why? What has America or an American ever done to hurt you?

You've made accusation after accusation that America is an evil empire. Where's your proof? Where's your historical references? If you wish to be taken seriously, and you want us (as Americans) to understand your position, supply some proof.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:33 PM

536 right ive had a fucking nough, cant be bothered with you all. i hope america sinks beneath the waves and that these muslims slaughter every america like they did those other two!!

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:36 PM

537 right ive had a fucking nough, cant be bothered with you all. i hope america sinks beneath the waves and that these muslims slaughter every america like they did those other two!!

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:36 PM

538 right ive had a fucking nough, cant be bothered with you all. i hope america sinks beneath the waves and that these muslims slaughter every america like they did those other two!!

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:36 PM

539 right ive had a fucking nough, cant be bothered with you all. i hope america sinks beneath the waves and that these muslims slaughter every america like they did those other two!!

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:37 PM

540 El Campesino:

The history of US expansionism, imperialism, colonialism (call it what you want) is nothing compared to that of Britain, France, Spain, or the Netherlands.

You are calling the kettle black.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:41 PM

541 Didn't those pesky Frenchies support you spams when you were terrorists? You remember that 'revolutionary' war you lot fought to rid yourselves of the legally constituted authority of Britain? Course you were 'patriots' then, not terrorists, weren't you?

BTW. You'd better arrange for the statue of liberty to be sent back too.

And your naive and inexperienced army of WW1 were only too happy to accept training and advice from those bloody Frogs too.

Freedom fries, my arse.

Posted by: El Campesino at September 22, 2004 06:42 PM

542 I make no secret of or apology for the colonialist tendencies of those European countries you list. But two wrongs don't make a right and the US's own imperialist record is an utter disgrace. Especially when apologists like you dress it up as something we should all be grateful for. Amazing.

Posted by: El Campesino at September 22, 2004 06:46 PM

543 El Campesino:

What the hell do you mean, you need to be quiet because you have no clue what you are going on about.

Go to hell!

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:48 PM

544 If you want proof that US is an evil entity check out this link:

That should satisfy even you, skourgeypoo.

Posted by: el campesino at September 22, 2004 06:51 PM

545 For those of you who post using another's name, I say this:

Only a coward is frightened of an honest debate.

Posted by: Skourge at September 22, 2004 06:52 PM

546 >>What the hell do you mean, you need to be quiet because you have no clue what you are going on about.

My, my, we are getting tetchy, ain't we? What's up, son? Finding the truth a bit hard to swallow? Never mind, you can probably get your super-efficent air force to bomb the shit out of me!!

Posted by: el campesino at September 22, 2004 06:55 PM

547 You cant take it that im right. and i know its you saying all those things so dont try blame others!

Posted by: el campesino at September 22, 2004 06:55 PM


a. You think you are brave, but still take the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE of holding guns, having knives, tying the victims hands behind their backs, and using three men to hold him down!!

b. You are daring enough to make videos, you say "Bush this, Blair that", but still wear your fucking masks on video!! You make death threats and kill people but don't have the courage to show your face, why because you have the fear of getting caught!!!!

I have an intuition, this is my sixth sense telling me!! Zarqawi will be caught on Oct '19th 2004, he will be flown to the United States, his trial will take place on Oct 30th with all the victim's families present there, and the judge will sentence him by saying the following
" To be Beheaded until DEAD!!"

His time is up, Iraq is going back to stability in one month.....


Posted by: Guri at September 22, 2004 06:57 PM

549 Whats been going on here, argueing wont solve anything!

Posted by: john at September 22, 2004 06:58 PM

550 I am, first and foremost, issuing the utmost and sincerest sympathy to Mr. Armstrong's, Mr. Berg's, Mr. Hensley's, and Mr. Bigley's families.
Second, anyone who believes that President Bush or his policies are responsible for 9-11 or the beheadings of these people is a complete jackass. President Buch, nor Dick Chaney, nor John Kerry were not in ANY way the men behind those masks. In retrospect the fault lies solely within the members of Jihadist groups, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Al-queda.
These men did not ask for the fate put upon them. Neither did America by the way. We WERE minding our own business three years ago. We were going about our normal day when three planes crashed into our most beloved American trademarks. No smaller blow to our ego could have been acted out that day short of crashing into the Lincoln Memorial or the White House.
This recent events should not hold any weight on who you are partisan to, who you vote for, or contempt for either of the candidates. These monstrous acts go way beyond either men.
I'm not going to slam either Republicans OR Democrats, although I am a firm Republican. John Kerry has made several statements recently proclaiming, "We must show more compassion to these people. Our incompassionate nature is what will inevitably lead to our demise." Well Senator Kerry, if you believe we should show compassion to these men then you are a dog. You should in NO way, under NO circumstances lead our country! If this is truly what any Democrat believes then you should be dealt with the same way the Iraqi insurgents dealt with Mr. Armstrong and the rest.

Posted by: Summer at September 22, 2004 06:59 PM

551 S & B, I believe you and I have some similar views here. You are exactly correct to question where the end game is and what is the scope of the problem. What the world faces right now is no less a threat than the Third Reich was. We are entering WWIII and most people don't realize it. The U.S. for it's part, has been ignoring the problem for many years. It has been someone elses problem to deal with as long as it doesn't affect us... Not a noble position to take I agree. {The part of the human nature that believes that it is all right to kill innocent people to further one's own agenda is not a trait monopolized by any one people. The U.S. (in it's shame) has had our own battles with this in our dealing with the American Indians during the foundation of our country. It doesn't matter when or where this phenomenon appears, you must defeat it or it will defeat you. But I digress...}

We ARE facing a nightmare situation. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Can we afford to ignore the terrorists and their state sponsors? I daresay not. Will we suffer causalties by taking on these terrorist? Unfortunately we will. At the end of the day we must ask ourselves what we want the world to look like? Do we want terrorism to continue? If we do, then we ignore it. If we want to live in a world with out terrorism (or at least less of it) then we must make a difficult decision. We must make the "hard right, over the easy wrong."
Does it really matter that no WMD's were found in Iraq? Did Iraq support terrorism prior to the second Gulf War? Yes. Did Iraq have any qualms about using WMD's? Nope. Was the threat there? Yep. After 9/11 can we afford to assume that a potential threat will never materialize? Not if you are serious about living. Why do we focus on WMD's? Bush wasn't the only one saying that Iraq was full of them. The WHOLE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY was in agreement that Iraq needed to come clean about it's WMD programs. When it comes to WMD's is the best policy one of hope for the best? That is what the international community was advocating.

Unfortunately your assesment is also accurate about the future of terrorism. It will continue. Regardless of what we do now, in the short term it will continue. It is the only way terrorists can fight. The long term prognosis is better if you intend to eliminate as many terrorists and supporting states as you can whilst encouraging economic and political prosperity.

The key to success is a unified front. If the world would come together and admit that terrorism needs to be eliminated, by force, then the terrorists and their supporting nations have no wiggle room. Right now, the terrorist kill innocent people because they know it divides the international community. On the flip side, if the world would come together and decide to appease the terrorists, they would only be emboldened. Will they be happy if we gave the terrorist Iraq and Afghanistan and said here is your country to rule over. Oppress your people, live your lives the way you want, just leave us alone. Do you think that would work? Is it the right thing to do to condemn all those innocent people to the rule of the terrorist? Of course this is a hypothetical, but what is really the alternative to not fighting terrorism?

Of course it looks like the war in Iraq has opened a can of worms. It has! All the terrorists are flocking to that country. Why? Because they know that U.S. success in Iraq spells disaster for their way of life. Does all this ugly death and distruction not sit well with our sensibilities? Is this why we want it to end. To end now gains us nothing. The terrorists win. We must persevere no matter what the cost. We are fighting a truely world wide war. Humanity cannot afford to lose this war. The Muslims can't. The Christians can't. The Germans and French can't. The Iraqi people can't. The Americans and Brit's can't. The sherpa's in Nepal can't. Terrorism will eventually infect all mankind, just like the Third Reich would have.

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 06:59 PM

552 Blackboots thinks that America rebuilt Germany following WWII when in reality Germany put an American on the Moon!

Sheesh, and you think it is I who is in need of a history lesson.

American's are only taught American History is school. That's why their views are so blinkered.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 06:59 PM

553 Blackboots thinks that America rebuilt Germany following WWII when in reality Germany put an American on the Moon!

Sheesh, and you think it is I who is in need of a history lesson.

American's are only taught American History in school. That's why their views are so blinkered.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 07:00 PM

554 Snipe away Coog. When all you can do is snipe, then you have lost your argument.

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 07:03 PM

555 I do not hate America, or Americans.

I do however detest their arrogance. I also believe they need to be taken down a peg or two. And boy they don't need much help when time and time again they shoot (first and ask questions later) themselves in the foot.

America is rapidly losing respect around the World. This could be a turning point. Be interesting to return after many generations and see where America's standing is.

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 07:04 PM

556 CoogarUK WELL BLOODY DONE MY FRIEND!!!! americans are taught what there country has done and its all a load of crap because its all biased. america is shit!! america just fucking admit it, stop trying to be the best nd maybe people will like you!

Posted by: Germanyman at September 22, 2004 07:05 PM

557 El Campesino thinks it's funny to post inflamitory messages using my name, so I am retiring. It was a fun debate while it lasted.

Posted by: Skourge (Real) at September 22, 2004 07:05 PM

558 Reporting facts is sniping now, is it? Well, that's just about the end of YOUR argument then!

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 07:05 PM

559 Careful, now, Coogar! Some illiterate moron may try and ape your writing style and post as you!

Posted by: el campesino at September 22, 2004 07:07 PM

560 skourge is a stupid wanker!! god he is copying all the stuff im not even saying. to death with all americans!

Posted by: el campesino at September 22, 2004 07:09 PM

561 I can assure you, skourge, that the chances of my posting anything under your name are less than zero. Come on, destroy my arguments instead of taking your ball home!

Posted by: el campesino at September 22, 2004 07:10 PM

562 The U.K is the best.For england and saint george, come on!!!

Posted by: CoogarUK at September 22, 2004 07:13 PM

563 Germanman,
You don't get it. Americans don't care whether people like them or not. We care about freedom. We care about peace. We just disagree with the rest of the world about how to go about it. Terrorism hasn't been a U.S. problem until 9/11. It has been a Euro/Asia/MiddleEast problem and you all have done a swell job perpetuating it. Now it is our problem and we are going to do something about it. Call us names. Don't like us. Spit in our faces. When all is said and done and you are a little bit safer, then we will accept your appology.

{Enough for me, I must depart this discussion. Have a wonderful night/day where ever you are.}

Posted by: blackboots at September 22, 2004 07:15 PM

564 See again i was right, its there attitude!! you americans havegot a big problem with it

'You don't get it. Americans don't care whether people like them or not.'

'Don't like us. Spit in our faces. When all is said and done and you are a little bit safer, then we will accept your appology.'

You think you own the bloody world.

Noone cares about you nomore! You and the UK are brothers, allways together on everything, you allways will be!

Posted by: Germanman at September 22, 2004 07:20 PM

565 See again i was right, its there attitude!! you americans havegot a big problem with it

'You don't get it. Americans don't care whether people like them or not.'

'Don't like us. Spit in our faces. When all is said and done and you are a little bit safer, then we will accept your appology.'

You think you own the bloody world.

Noone cares about you nomore! You and the UK are brothers, allways together on everything, you allways will be!

Posted by: Germanman at September 22, 2004 07:20 PM

566 See again i was right, its there attitude!! you americans havegot a big problem with it

'You don't get it. Americans don't care whether people like them or not.'

'Don't like us. Spit in our faces. When all is said and done and you are a little bit safer, then we will accept your appology.'

You think you own the bloody world.

Noone cares about you nomore! You and the UK are brothers, allways together on everything, you allways will be! The whole UK/US thing is crap. i hate you both!

Posted by: Germanman at September 22, 2004 07:21 PM

567 Fuck you, you NAZI bastard

Posted by: NaziHater at September 22, 2004 07:45 PM

568 Germanyman has been banned.

For the rest of you, please see the main page for latest developments. Two Italian WOMEN hostages have been executed.

Posted by: RS at September 22, 2004 08:29 PM

569 CoogarUK has been banned. When someone gets killed, the proper response is "Sorry" not "I'd like to see America get taken down a notch." Manners.

Also, if any of you are annoyed at why the comments don't seem to remember your info, there is a fix for that. The fix is to visit the main page, then click "comments" instead of returning to the comments section through the archive page. Sorry, if any tech geeks know of a better way to fix it let me know.

Posted by: RS at September 22, 2004 08:32 PM

570 el campasino has been banned.

Posted by: RS at September 22, 2004 08:34 PM

571 I like it! It rattles everyones cages. Leaders should play down education and do away with news and control the world the way they want. That's how the games been played for centuries. Disappointed with thr Worlds Armies. Especially the American Military. Taking to dam long to take over a country without mass destruction. All this high tech weapons of EU and USA is Bull, its not working is it! It's because corporate America is at work not the military fairies. Ah! I Love fear and greed of all mankind. I'm glad that Bush has a lot of it! Get to be religious crazy now cause god's at work! Everyone in the modern world forgets the weapon of mass destruction is in ones soul. Beheading is primitive weaponry and their skin is lighter than the ones doing the beheading. Who the hell cares about that! You think Bush does. I guarantee it works in his favor for the elections. Great world we live in. Remember doing the right things isn't right and dying with the most toys means you just got screwed! Unless there deadly toys.

Posted by: ArmageddonNice at September 22, 2004 08:40 PM

572 Did I already mention that Skourge has been banned? Thanks for tips.

Posted by: RS at September 22, 2004 08:51 PM

573 How come people who believe in Bush and his policies are pro violence and people who want peace and change are crazy. All Iraq is doin is getting my friends killed,hurt,physically, emotionally and Really!

Posted by: Jeff USA at September 22, 2004 08:54 PM

574 PS-How did this become us blasting the Brits? The Brits rule. Long live the Queen! That said from an American Patriot. Let's focus here. The enemy is around us, they have specific goals, they want us dead...and they are not the Brits!

France, well, that's another thing altogether.

Posted by: RS at September 22, 2004 08:57 PM


Posted by: Brad at September 22, 2004 09:12 PM

576 I want to clear my name. Any anti-American posts under the name "Skourge" where posted by either CoogarUK, Germanman, or El Campesino. I had a fierce debate with these America-haters and their arguments couldn't hold water, so they attempted to discredit me with fraudulant posts.

I love this country.

Posted by: Skourge (Real) at September 22, 2004 09:41 PM


After seeing the beheading photos I say what ever it takes to find animals like this do it with my blessings Mr. Bush


Posted by: gerald at September 22, 2004 10:03 PM

578 Enough with all of this! If the muslims are fighting by their "holy word" then why can't we do the same? An "eye for an eye" policy should be in place now.

This is not a popular war, but most wars are not popular until the enemy is at the gates of the city. Because of this "un-popularity" the US forces are in a defensive position and are doomed to repeat the same fates of the soldiers in Vietnam 30 years ago. We should move to a more 1300's policy where violence against our soldiers or civilians in met with more horrific violence. For every American, soldier or not, killed in Iraq we should be removing 100 or more of their people from this planet and sending them to Ali. In fact, if you really want to stop this....start killing their infants first, then children, then young women, then older the young males for last....let them see what they have started before they are eliminated. This is what is necessary, but it will never happen.

The islamic nations of the world have chosen a path of destruction and violence, as they have for centuries. Anyone who thinks that negotiations will work is a fool, and I would encourage them to read the islamic religious documents in detail and pick up a world history book. The only way to defeat them is to 1) abandon them contact, no help, no aid of any kind, no exports, no imports, and most importantly in today’s world, no oil, basically act like the Chinese or 2) Kill them all.

I would vote for either, but the American population is more worried about watching reality television than what is really going on in the world to allow either position to happen. Face it, most Americans could easily tell the difference between Paris Hilton, Nicole Richey, and Brittney Spears, but less than 20% could point out Iraq, Iran, and Syria on a map.

We cannot negotiate our way out of this. There are only the two options above and the American population does not have the stomach for either. This battle will last well beyond this Presidential election, in fact, I would be willing to bet that it will last beyond my lifetime and that my young son and his sons will eventually be fighting the same war that Richard the Lionheart fought many, many years ago.

Posted by: David at September 22, 2004 10:07 PM

579 Many, many prayers are with the families of the innocent Americans who have been beheaded... And many prayers & angels sent to our young, brave, & honorable men & women of all countries who are doing their very best for the Iraqi people. My only child - a son - is proudly serving in the US Navy, on a submarine, & I am also a Viet Nam veteran. Pray for peace, & the safety of all our troops, their familes, & the many people who are in Iraq to help them get their own government going.

Posted by: vicki at September 22, 2004 10:24 PM

580 wow. Lots of hatred and racism in the posts here. You should take a step back and look at yourselves for a moment.

If a white christian guy blows up a building in Oklahoma City, does that make all whites and christians evil terrorists? Are you gonna vow to wipe christianity off the earth?

My own take: The people doing the be-headings and abudctions are terrified as much as they are terrorists. They have no power, and so resort to fear. George Bush on the other hand, has lots of power. I'll post some links in a follow up email of civilians killed by US weapons of war. Children blown to pieces. Homes destroyed. Lives crushed.

In my opinion, one form of terror is no better than another. If you really want to defeat the terrorists, you should start with the tax-sponsored ones at home in the US. Ever time an innocent is killed in Iraq, a new army of terrorists rises. You can't win this kind of war. And that's the point. The US needs it's boogeymen. Well, you've found them. And by the way, you created them too.

Posted by: just browsing at September 22, 2004 10:39 PM

581 AMERICA - WAKE UP - PLEASE!! If anyone thinks for a second that the group of terrorists who beheaded the innocent people working in Iraq would NOT do this to Americans on our own homeland if given the chance, then you are wrong. They would love nothing better to kill all Americans. I will vote for Pres. Bush because he is our only hope in keeping terrorists off this great homeland. Kerry is very frightening & his flip-flop ideas of how to win the war in Iraq (and we will - America has NEVER lost a war!)is a joke. Go & talk to the UN, Paris, Germany, & Russia to go to Iraq? Not a chance...the UN has ripped the Iraqi people off with the food-for-oil program. They got caught with their sticky fingers in the cookie jar. God Bless the wonderous country we are so fortunate to live in, & bless all our troops who have ever fought in a war.

Posted by: David at September 22, 2004 10:41 PM

582 Several thoughts come to mind as I viewed the photos of the slaughter of Eugene Armstrong. And please bear with me as these thoughts are being jotted down in no particular order and are offered simply as fuel for thought. Because I feel that we all need to stop and really think about all the factors involved.

1.) Mr. Armstrong, and all employees of civilian companies doing business in Iraq know of the inherent dangers that go with the job. That is why they are payed more than normal, and yes, I know that no amount of pay can compensate for the danger they face. But they choose to accept it. Our soldiers, on the other hand, do not have that luxury. Isn't it somewhat odd, then, that with the exception of that one Muslim soldier who was later released, I don't recall any soldiers kidnapped and beheaded as these civilians.

2.) When "Bush the 1st" threatened to invade Iraq, it was because Iraq had invaded Kuwait. What was our principal interest there? Oil. The people who continue to say this was not about oil are simply ignorant to the facts or else they are trying hard to perpetuate the lie. But I digress... My point is, Saddam promised us "The Mother Of All Wars." We laughed hysterically at his comments as we bombed the crap out of Baghdad and crushed his "elite" army which turned out to be not elite at all, but sacrificial lambs Saddam decided to put in the front ranks. Could it be that the quagmire we now find ourselves in is "The Mother of all wars" Hussein promised?

3.) When Bush the 2nd (Dubya) started rattling his sabers, using the still yet-to-be found "Weapons of Mass Destruction" as his justification to invade Iraq this time ("Iraq:The Sequel" now playing for real in a sand dune far from your local neighborhood theater) here's the ultimate Irony: Iraq continued to deny they had 'em. North Korea bragged that they DID. So, if WMD was the real reason to invade Iraq, why did we do nothing about North Korea who not only admitted to having them, but BRAGGED about 'em? But it's not about oil, right?

4.) The first test that should be established before we go into a country by force to remove the existing government is simple. We need to establish: Does the population of that country have the desire to stand up and reject the current dictator with assistance? Do they have the stamina and resolve to THEN set up their own government and, sustain challenges to it without having to depend on long-term assistance from an outside source (i.e. The U.S.). In both cases, I would have to say NO. We are talking about a culture that is very different than us. We have seen examples of this middle-east mindset time and time again. No matter which group you assist today, they will gleefully stab us in the back at the first opportunity that it serves a purpose for them.

WHY, then, do we feel it necessary to go in there and stir up the hornets nest? The pandora's box we have opened can not be closed and we are now potentially facing a world-wide "jihad" (holy war) where countries that let these extremists in (let me think: Uh, that would mean the US) will NOW be susceptable to attacks from WITHIN. Thanks a heap, there, George. Or, more to the point, Thanks a heap, Dick Cheney and Haliburton. Yeah, you'll make BILLIONS, compliments of this no-bid contract that was given to you MONTHS before the war began. But at what cost? This is the ultimate in short-sited greed.

5.) Finally, as I said, we cannot close the Pandora's Box opened by Bush and company. This means that just about the only thing we can do is to wipe out the extremists WORLD WIDE. That's a scary thought. But there you have it. Do you really want to know why we have not had another 9/11 type event in this country? Because these towel-heads are hoping we vote Bush out of office and are waiting to see if we do so. They aren't doing anything before the election, because they know that if they do that we, the flip-flop Americans that we are, will rally behind Bush as we did after 9/11/01 and re-elect him overwhelmingly. And, while Cheney tries to scare us with his warning that if we elect Kerry, we will be struck again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the EXACT OPPOSITE is what is likely to happen. Think about it, folks. We elect Bush for a second term, we have pissed off the terrorists and they will then have nothing to prevent them from striking again. Note this date and prediction. I will gladly eat my words if this proves to be untrue. Will the Bush supporters eat theirs? I seriously doubt it, but it will be kind of tough to blame Kerry if Bush gets re-elected and then a new attack takes place a few days later. GOD I HOPE I'M WRONG, but I'm just trying to look at this logically.

Make no mistake: We are NOT safe in this country as long as we continue to try to force OUR beliefs, standards and political structure down the throats of a group of people who still choose to live with the 14th century mentality.

And that's the bottom line: They don't think like us, their values are totally different than us and just because they have oil, that doesn't make it right for us to force our way into their country and set up an American style democracy IF THEY ARE NOT EQUIPPED TO MAINTAIN IT ON THEIR OWN. Sure it would be GREAT for us as far as having access to their oil, and it would be especially great for Bush and his business pals.

But this isn't about oil, is it? Naw, Bush would NEVER jeopardize the American public like that now would he?

Would he?

My condolances go to the Armstrong family and the families of the other hostages yet to be slaughtered by these sand maggots. But these civilian workers are easy targets for the sand maggots, because they don't have the protection of a couple hundred American Soldiers 24/7. So they will continue to be abducted and slaughtered until someone steps up and says, "This is rediculous! Leave these assholes to fight amongst themselves!" That's the only thing these 14th century cowards understand. And all the US Troops and slaughtered civilian workers aren't going to change a single thing about that. The sooner we learn this and get the hell out, the better (and safer) we will all be. The only military solution that would work effectively would be something too horrible to contemplate, but it would have something in common with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And, frankly, with the course Bush is on, it may have to come to that. All because of it "not being about oil?"

Yeah, RIGHT!

Posted by: Lone Wolf at September 22, 2004 10:42 PM

583 I watched the video yesterday and was very upset. I say bring the troops home, and then bomb them with a low level nuclear devise. If you loose a few good people who cares. There is no changing people like that. The country is not worth one American life. TED

Posted by: T.Duffy at September 22, 2004 11:01 PM

584 The lack of compassion and patriotism expressed in this blog chain frightens me.

I'm by no means a jingoist or right-winger, but I fail to see how America deserved 9/11, or how Mr. Berg, Mr. Armstrong, and Mr. Hensley deserved their beheadings.

This "hate America first" attitude of many young people in this country is alarming. Perhaps living a year in North Korea would help them appreciate the freedoms they enjoy here.

Posted by: Skourge (Real) at September 22, 2004 11:04 PM

585 Brothers? Soldiers? email!!

Posted by: Fred at September 22, 2004 11:06 PM

586 When was there this much violence in Iraq?
Thanks to Bush and Cheney they will not only bankrupt our great Country, they will fuck-up another Country!
I hope they enjoy all the profits from their oil companies while our men and women die for their greed!

Posted by: brian mc at September 22, 2004 11:10 PM

587 Damn all that, kill Osama.

Posted by: Fred at September 22, 2004 11:30 PM

588 Fuck rhetoric. Kill Bin Laden.

Posted by: Fred at September 22, 2004 11:31 PM

589 And next ALL the rest of those Muslim assholes, moderates FIRST!!!!!!!

Posted by: Fred at September 22, 2004 11:35 PM

590 salamander im totally with u man we are supposed to be invading iraq but we arent doing anything but losing innocent americans if we cant kill any iraq's this whole invasion is pointless i say just kill as many of them as possible and be done with it they all want to see allah anyways.

Posted by: sephiroth989 at September 22, 2004 11:47 PM

591 Ban everyone that disagrees with you. Or better still, bomb them, nuke them, etc. etc.

That's American freedom for you.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 23, 2004 12:34 AM

592 They should NUKE the entire area if you ask me!
These people are a threat to us all !

Posted by: Anthony (Greece) at September 23, 2004 12:54 AM

593 p.s. Why would I write pretending to be someone else?

Add(?) paranoia to the list...

Posted by: C00garUK at September 23, 2004 12:57 AM

594 Nuke 'em U.S. ---- There is no reasoning with these animals... these are not even close to normal human beings. Love, Kindness, humanity, does not exist in their being. It does, for the most of the world... Thank God. I say, nuke em...we could change the world for a much much better place. NUKE EM> NOW.

Posted by: Monkey at September 23, 2004 01:48 AM

595 I can't believe you have banned el campesino!!. Why? His arguments were reasoned. No one, but *no one* came back with a reasoned alternative point of view?

More like he/she spoke a modicum of truth and twitched a few conmsciences.

Let freedom reign? Yeah, my arse.

Posted by: auntiedom at September 23, 2004 01:55 AM

596 I think all of us need to remember the real reason we are in Iraq OIL some times you have to look out for # 1 and that is our grate country the good old U S A we are not a better country thane any other and I don’t think we need to police the world win we cant take vary good care of our own country we have more unnecessary deaths in the u s than any nation in the world. So lets take the log out of our own eye before we take the speck out of any one else’s .

Posted by: dano at September 23, 2004 02:38 AM

597 They saw off an american head and it fills you with rage.
good. remember that feeling.
now try for a moment to understand that you are not the only person with feelings in the world!
Imagine the rage and horror of an iraqi civillian when america drops bombs on his city and blows his FAMILY and friends to pieces leaving bloody body parts strewn across the rubble that was his HOME.
You folks need to understand that a hostage decapitation is absolutely trivial and insignificant compared to the overwhelming acts of mass murder the american military performs on a daily basis in Iraq (and by the Isrealis in palestine) .
You Bush fans won't see the videos, although if you search you might find them. they wouldn't fit into your reality very well I'm afraid.
The iraqis have responded to our brutal campaign with a bit of "shock and awe" for us. A few decapitations is the best they can do with the small budget they have to work with (they dont have a defense budget in the trillions like us.)
multiply this decapitation by 100,000 and you might start to understand what they see - and why they hate us so much.

The sickest part of this whole mess is that Cheney and Bush don't give a damn about the US soldiers and contractors or the freedom of the iraqi people.

This war is for OIL. And it is only act I.

Posted by: daisy cutter at September 23, 2004 02:51 AM

598 fuck you all .. i hope you all are next

Posted by: baldguy at September 23, 2004 03:23 AM

599 Dear Americans,
It is appaling to see people blaming Bush, America, Britain, France etc.

Stop being lunatics. We have a problem at hand. All American and European lives are in danger. The islamic Jehadi does not distinguish between Countries. If you read Quran, you will know that all non Muslims are the targets and the killing of Non-Muslims in sanctioned by it. Now Italians have been killed. Next it could be a German or a French.

The only solution is to nuke them and destroy them completely. Only a very aggressive action which makes them suffer HORRIBLY will bring some sense to these animals. (Sorry, animals are much better. These criminals are worst than animals.)

In the face of such a big tragedy, people sitting in their armchairs and rebuking their own Government are simply insane Americans (if indeed they are Americans and not assuming false names and identity)

Posted by: Patriot at September 23, 2004 04:19 AM

600 It makes me sick what they did to this poor man. These cockroaches need to be annihilated. I feel so bad for the family. I am in total shock after seeing this. I can't fathom anyone being this evil.

Posted by: angela at September 23, 2004 04:31 AM

601 To Skourge:

Iraq was created under the auspices of the league of Nations, created by the victors of WW1, of which I believe the US was part of. Israel too was created out of guilt for the holocaust. That is why I used the prefix "we" in my posting. I am not saying the uk is innocent, I can acknowledge our blame in this. I am disgusted by what is happpening in Iraq, but so am I about Chechnya, the sudan, Burma, North Korea........The reasons for going to war were lies...WMD and breaking UN resolutions.......If I am correct the US is currently breaking 24 UN resolutions, Israel over 40. I do not profess to know the solution to the problems but I am pretty sure it is not "Nuke Em All". I was born and grew up under the shadow of the IRA, my father was killed by them (the majority is not Catholic to correct a poster earlier but Protestant) and the cycle of violence has only stopped due to negotiation. I can only see this being resolved in the same manner, bu it must be done by the leaders of the islamic faith. The militants will not listen to anyone else.

Posted by: Truebrit at September 23, 2004 04:36 AM

602 what in gods name is going on in this world??? I Can't believe someone would let this as a man begs for his life plea after plea goes unheard.His familys heartach does anyone really care out there?? I'm so pissed off that no one helped this poor man.But if it was a leader they would have got what they wanted. WHY is that? How many more have to die like this before someone helps these people who are just trying to save there country.But in the end who's helping them??

Posted by: nadine(Canada) at September 23, 2004 04:51 AM

603 Truebrit!

Posted by: auntiedom at September 23, 2004 05:04 AM

604 That was meant to read *applause!* Truebrit!

Posted by: auntiedom at September 23, 2004 05:06 AM

605 US invades any country where it can find money.

It never loves peace but always shouts out " We do this for a better world". Let's look into the past any see how they create peace....Oh, nothing but war and blood.

Why almost all countries hate US? Why they call Bush terrorist? Maybe you think that they do not know what US is doing for them.We're wrong. IT'S US WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT US IS DOING TO THEM AND ALSO TO OURSELVE. All they see is war, blood ... and surely,they do not have to be very smart to know about the peace that US is promising.

Can we at least one time think seriously of US terrorist policy over other countries and stop crying " US for the world".

Killing US people is ofcourse a crucial reaction and may not work, but that is all they can do to protect themselves and their beloved brothers and sisters who is now risking their lives in US prisons. I am against any reaction like that but i understand and sympathy with them.

Posted by: antiwar at September 23, 2004 06:27 AM

606 Nuclear Bomb is the solution

Posted by: JC at September 23, 2004 06:35 AM

607 You Americans are bloody hypocites, yes these beheading are sickening to say the least, but while your all screaming blue murder, take a good look at your selves, you can easily put a man into an electric chair with an audience and fry him until his eyes pop out of his head.
DO think this is humane? I think not.
We all can put a dog down with a simple, quick & painless injection, but no you love to do it in the most horrific ways possible. Take a real good hard look at yourselves, your no different and you make the rest of the world sick.

Get the hell out of Iraq, don't you understand simpletons, you can never ever win this and your doing no-one including yourselves any good.

Your stupid government went in looking for weapons of mass destruction. (Well thats their excuse anyhow)
Well fucking dimwits you created the weapons of mass destruction - they call them TERRORISTS. Think about that for a while you Assholes, and now the whole world suffers because of the Fucking US of A.

If you want to Fuck anything up, send in the Americans.

Posted by: American Hypocites at September 23, 2004 07:22 AM

608 LISTEN!! We all are anti-war...who wants to fight!? But sometimes, we HAVE to! You libs out there just don't get it do you? Let me remind you of something you so quickly forgot....SEPT. 11th. When all you left-wing nuts come back to reality, I hope you will be able to see that George W. Bush is leading us in a war on terror. Oh ,and just a side note, if your democrat, PLEASE REMEMBER...election day is Nov. 3rd!!!

Posted by: Daryl Rogers at September 23, 2004 07:28 AM

609 Daryl Rogers, no one forgets sept 11, Thousands and thousands of innocent people have been murdered in Iraq, tell me does anyone give any thought to that? If this is revenge for sept 11, then someone needs to tell you that your picking on the wrong country, these poor people had nothing to do with sept 11. Just because your pathetic attempt to capture Bin Laden failured, you went after Saddam, well you have him, now what? Make the Iraqi people suffer more than ever. As for the Terrorist boom America has created, noone can agree with what they are doing, but how else can they fight a nation with so much fire power, do they throw stones at your tanks or shoot arrows at your bomb dropping planes, if someone murdered you beloved wife and childern and destroyed your home, would you feel angry, lost, no reason for living and just put a gun to your own head and end it all. If this happened to you and yours, I think you would probably strap your selve with explosives and take out as many of the pigs that did this to your beautiful childern.

Posted by: American Hypocites at September 23, 2004 08:00 AM

610 this is the sickest thing ever bomb the lot of them

Posted by: scott at September 23, 2004 08:02 AM

611 Hey Yankee, Started a fight you can't win did ya? Not so tough are you - Getting a bit of your own back and you go to water. Crying your eyes out, tapping away on your pc with comments like Lets NUKE em. Typical yankee big mouths, its easy to say shit like that when your safe hiding in you bedroom. Well keep it up America and sept 11 will most likely pale into significance with what will probably happen to you over the next couple of decades, you can not win this one, you are a nation with weak stomaches.

Stop crying to the world, we don't want to know.

Posted by: stuffed again at September 23, 2004 08:25 AM

612 "American Hypocrites" has been banned.

Folks, I invite you to come to my main page for daily updates. Today's news includes an update to the two Italian Women hostages--a group has claimed they have been beheaded and will release video soon.

Main Page

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford, owner of this blog at September 23, 2004 08:44 AM

613 stuffed again has been banned

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford, owner of this blog at September 23, 2004 08:50 AM

614 antiwar has been banned.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford, owner of this blog at September 23, 2004 08:52 AM

615 Daisy Cutter has been banned.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford, owner of this blog at September 23, 2004 09:01 AM

616 Good on Ian, Don't worry Shackleford a dumb bastard, he can't ban us.

Posted by: American Hypocites at September 23, 2004 09:22 AM

617 I'm BACK.

Posted by: a at September 23, 2004 09:24 AM

618 Ian is the reason we fight. All Americans should remember his words. If Americans drop their guard..., it's people like Ian that will kill us.

Posted by: Todd at September 23, 2004 09:30 AM

619 SO am l.

Posted by: antiwar at September 23, 2004 10:04 AM

620 Shackleford, what did you do with Ian's posting???????????????????????????????????????

Posted by: American Hypocites at September 23, 2004 10:07 AM

621 Fellow Americans, I would like to address an issue in the blog that continues to rage - comments from the UK.

The best way to respond to these people is not to respond. By responding to their nonsense, you empower them. Their arguments are nonsense. They are a people who willingly chose to disarm themselves - to give up their rights to self determination. We Americans have little in common with them, save our language. The smart people long ago fled that awful place. Leave them to their own devices.

Let us, as adults, continue to discuss the issues at hand and pay no attention to those british fools.

Posted by: Chris at September 23, 2004 10:26 AM

622 They don't know what they are doing! They are trying to intimidate the world! But they will pay for what they're doing!

Posted by: Tony at September 23, 2004 10:41 AM

623 I disagree. I feel that most Brits love freedom..., and abhore the terrorists. Tony Blair has been the most staunch allie of the USA, in the USA's hour of need. I have a respect for the majority of the British people that I never had before. Like every group, the Brits have their (shall we say) radical idiots. Heck, we have them here in the USA. But, as for me, I stand with the majority of the people of the United Kingdom, and may god bless them!

Posted by: Todd at September 23, 2004 10:47 AM

624 First and foremost, I think that every soldier we have in iraq now is making a monumental sacrifice for us all, and I do appreciate what they are doing.
The middle east has FOREVER been an unstable region.Not just iraq, but the entire region. This isn't something that we are just finding out. I am from TX. born and raised, but did not and will not vote for george w. Whether or not the other canidate will do a better job..... I do not know.
What I do know is that all of the most hostile regions in the middle east have been funded or armed at some point from the united states. afganistan was given millions of dollars and arms to fight the soviets during that long and unsucessful conflict. osama was trained and armed by the u.s., saddam hussein was armed and given money by..... the u.s. the biological and nerve weapons that our government was so sure were there and have looked so hard for..... what do you think gave our powers that be the idea that he had them? oh yeah.. we gave them to him! I think that the horrible acts that have been commited recently are obsene. War is obsene! how exactly did you expect them to react? We are so horrored by this that we have lost track of the carnage that we have created. the iraqi army was decimated during the first bush's rule, and had not recovered. How were they an imminent threat to our homeland? Everyone is so scared to death or terrorists attacking us, that they endorse a government that has taken us from a record high surplus to a record high debt in only three years. the real kicker is that we accomplished nothing in the way of our own domestic affairs. recent polls indicate that americans feel no safer now than we did pre 9/11. although the same threats are still here that have been here since long before 9/11. the interesting thing to me is that we now have more threats.
I read earlier where someone had compared us to the roman empire, I apologise I don't remember your name, but I think you are right on the money. We are a decadent society. we are war mongers, greedy, and callous in how we treat the rest of the world. I strongly urge anyone that disagrees to do a little reading on the rise and fall of the roman empire.
george w was elected on name recognition and name recognition only. his political resume is very short.
everyone is so quick to say that oil is not the reson for the current conflict. am I the only person who knows where the bush family made their millions??? hello people... they're from tx....
hello... oil!! but it goes much deeper than oil.. it's the entire energy industry. which happens to be the most influential industry in the world. nations are made or broken by energy. there are many speculations that largest oil / gas reserves in the world are in the deep water of the gulf of mexico, which is controlled by the u.s. I seem to remember something in bush's last set of promises about expanding exploraotry drilling domestically so as not to have to rely so heavily on importing it, yet here we are paying 2 dollars plus a gallon for gasoline because of import costs. and the really funny thing about it is that every gallon of gasoline that you or I purchase pays a minimum of 38 cents tax. thats every gallon, not every fill up! seems that good sense would dictate that money be put to good use in aleiveing skyrocketing enrgy costs, but here we are again, as of last nights reports close to 50 dollars a barrel for oilI've seen comments on michael moores films, and how there is a montauge of truths mixed with lies. sounds to me like you have never watched one of his films, rather you have gotten your perspectives from the media... which is controlled by our government.. like or not. example in point: cbs was fined 550k for less than half of a second of her bare breast during the superbowl, yet if you turn on local broadcast televison in the afternoon.. where many american children spend a vast part of their freetime.. you see dating shows where they take 5 singles and try to gethem to hook up on camera, hwere they do censor the assorted flashing and nudity... but they leave no doubt as to what is going on.. merely covering the fun parts with small happy faces. the same governmental agency is in charge of all media, although they felt less than a second of bare breast was more "damaging" than several consecutive hours of everday people acting like dogs in heat. this is YOUR republican government at work.
I say that, but in all reality, it isn't the republican or democratic party thats to blame. we have a broken system. no longer do we elect the best canidate. now days we vote for the canidate with the flashiest suit, or the coolest commercials, which neither have a damn thing to do with how qualified the canidate is. we used to have people in office that knew the laws of our land like the back of their hands. now we are run by buissness men. domestic affairs have been moved form the front seat.. to the back seat.. and have eventualy been stuffed in the trunk with all of the other crap that we'll get to sometime or another. for the people by the people... yet the current president DID NOT wim the majority of the votes in the last election. who's presidency fell on a state that is primarily minoraties.. who historically vote liberally. a state that his little bro just happens to be the govenor of, yet somehow he found a statisical anomoly there and won the election after several recounts at his request. once in office, he made sure to "fix" our errors in tallying votes by instituting technology to fix the problem, even though by doing so the vote recount is now a thing of the past.. the very thing that got him in office! wehn I mentioned all of the funding and training we provided to " our nations greatest threats" in the 70's and 80's earlier... how many people can guess who was in charge of those affairs?? why george w.'s daddy! the other bush, who just happens to be one of george w.'s main advisors... do you see a trend here?? remember kenneth leigh, the enron ceo and chair? guess who he "donated" over a million dollars to last election? why our "Trusted leader" george w. guess who still recieves a paycheck from halliburton? why that would be mr. cheney, the person responsable for kbr ( halliburtons parent company) getting the contract for billions of dollars in iraq. I wonder if he gets paid a commision on that, I mean they are still cutting him checks. what ever happened to osama? wasn't he determined to be responsable for 9/11? isn't afgahnastan about the size of texas? you or I can go online and have a sattelite photo of our homes. you can even see your own car in your driveway, but we can't find osama?? BULLSHIT! there is no economic gain to be had in afghanastan, but iraq?? you betcha there is! the world energy industry is based out of houston, texas. I know this because I live here and work here, in that industry. guess who the most prominent family in houston, texas is?? why that would be the bush family.
do not label me a democrat, or liberal, or whatever other childish name calling game might come to mind if you don't like what I have to say. I consider myself a realist. I look at things for how they are, and having a doctoral degree as well as three masters, I like to think I have a pretty good gauge of things. enough talking about what needs to happen. no more talk of health care, or education, or jobs, or any snese of security as to where our lives will be when the time to retire comes around. how about doing something about it? GEORGE W HAS NOT DONE THE THINGS HE PROMISED TO DO WHEN EVERYONE REGISTERED THEIR VOTES FOR HIM. WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK HE WILL THIS TIME???
I guess I should stop now, seeing as how we are monitered by our government, and goodness knows I really don't want to be arrested for having decent for our government, (read the patriot act) for an undetermined amount of time with no legal representation.
but one more thing... I can't help myself.. i remember hearing something about the seperation of church and state somewhere, remember? stop praying for things to happen and start doing something about it! don't try the reterict that this country was founded on christian values either, I sure god gave no endorsement on us decimating a population of people, the american indians, form over 9 million to less than 250k in less than 300 yrs. why, that would be barbaric.. kinda like all those things we went to iraq for.

Posted by: scott at September 23, 2004 10:48 AM

625 The smart people did not flee from england, they were either sent here as debtors, or they were entrepeneurs funded by the british government to come here for industry or to expand the empire.
they have been our staunchest supporters for many years.

Posted by: scott at September 23, 2004 11:02 AM

626 I, like all of you, am shocked, and furious about these senseless killings of innocent people. How savage these "holy fighters" are, is something I find truely frightening. And although we'd like to see hostages be freed from these situations, I agree with current policy of not negotiating with terrorists. It's like feeding wild don't feed them, because they know if they come back, they'll get more food. It's the same way with these hostage takers. If we surrender to these fools of the damned, they'll just take more hostages, knowing that we'll give in. We need a better way to take out these bastards, because it's obvious that they cannot be reasoned with.

Posted by: Cdion at September 23, 2004 11:02 AM

627 Hopefully no one from this man's family ever see this video or these pictures.

While I agree with our going into Iraq I hope we are out of there as soon as possible.

I think every non iraqi should pack a sub machine gun where ever they go. Better to die in a hail of gun fire than to have your head cut off in such a gruesome manner.

These are some pretty sick people.

Posted by: Dave H at September 23, 2004 11:15 AM

628 Please do not write long boring paragaphs about how much you hate George Bush and the U.S. But then I guess, all you libs are boring...just like your wanna-be leader. Remember libs...election day is NOV. 3!!!!

Posted by: Daryl at September 23, 2004 11:35 AM

This is a war between the two roots of all evil -money and religion.....there is no winner, only greater bloodshed. Deepest sympathies to the families of the two Americans beheaded this week and hope for our friend from Liverpool, though I fear the same fate awaits.....

Where capitalism meets fanaticism, there will be no winner. I am no politician, and now have no persuasion to any party in my homeland of the UK, as we are now truly the 51st state. Republican or democrat - the rhetoric and gainsaying of each party will always continue, but whatever is said the result will be the same now and forever. Death.

We have a had a microcosm of this in Northern Ireland for years, but not to this extent.

This is a pandora's box that the world will never recover from. God help us all - if there truly is one.

Posted by: Marshy at September 23, 2004 11:36 AM

630 I am a first time visitor to this site and had the misfortune to read some peoples opinions, i.e. "you people are all brainwashed patriotic cunts. fucking get your people out of iraq and use your brains.

question authority, you pieces of shit. look at yourselves from the outside." written by someone who has obviously no care for americans nor for that matter any human life.

I myself come from Ireland and have had a hard time growing up under the oppression of the british invaders (something little known by many people in the world, especially the americans, strange considering 74 of the american presidents have been Irish or of Irish descent)

I am disgusted by anyone who thinks that nothing should be done to the low life scum of the world that are commiting these barbarac acts of inhumanity.
I am torn between the thought of nuking that country because if we did, innocents would be killed then we would be no better than the scum terrorists themselves.
I do however believe that bush has not done the job right and kerrys way of gaining support from other nations before "going it alone" and costing the american people $200 billion and american sons deaths would have been the better method.

At the time of the of the 9/11 attacks I was living in england and at work, I was horified and sickened at what had happened, one englishman said that america deserved what they got (shows what the english think of americans) but the dumb f**ker forgot I was nearby, the result of my loud earbashing in front of about 150 people is eactly what he deserved.

One last comment, although I am Irish living in america, I find myself to be at home and support any killing of terrorist scum that think they can attack this wonderful country (with the exception of the europeans beating you in the ryder cup)

Stop all the bickering and forget these fools with their antiwar cries....war against criminals is a right and justified war!

Posted by: Padraig at September 23, 2004 12:02 PM


Rest in Peace Mr. Armstrong, vengence is Gods,and he will inflict pain 7 times greater on those who say they are of God and no him not,

Posted by: ARMYFAMILY at September 23, 2004 12:08 PM

632 You know daryl. I find it interesting that you'd read my long "boring" paragraph and then turn around and do something childish as name calling.If you dislike what non bush supporters have to say then come up with a better retort than for all you libs voting day in nov. 3.

you sheep!

Posted by: scott at September 23, 2004 12:08 PM

633 To comment on the wrtings of "truebrit"......The crimes against the True Irish people of Northern Ireland has not stopped, the loyalists are still killing people today, ten years after the Real Irish who have been fighting the war against the invaders and oppressors of our country have called a ceasefire to begin peaceful dialogue. The loyalist paramilitries and politicions are continuing to cause trouble in MY country because you dont want to give it back to the Irish.
If we, the Real Irish people hadnt started to fight against you, the british, there would not even be an Irish free state, nor and end in sight to oppression of the catholics (real Irish) in Northern Ireland.

This is what would happen if we didnt fight an armed struggle against the scum who are commiting the beheadings of innocent people.

The english have caused more wars in this world (and continue it in NI) than anyone else and have no right to say anything about anyone who goes to war to defend the rights of decent human beings.

Posted by: Padraig at September 23, 2004 12:19 PM

634 Being defeated is a temporary condition......Giving up is what makes it permanant....

Posted by: katherine at September 23, 2004 12:50 PM

635 Scott,

Let's answer a few of your questions.

The USA was well aware that the middle east is (and has been) an unstable region.

While most, if not all, of the most hostile regions in the middle east have been funded or armed at some point from the USA, you neglect to point out that they were also armed by other countires as well. Therefore, the arming of these regions is a moot point.

Afganistan was not given millions of dollars and arms to fight the Soviets. The USA gave the AFGHAN REBELS money & arms. It is true that those same AFGHAN REBELS are now attacking the USA, with the very weapons that the USA supplied. OBL was trained and armed by the USA, during a time when the USA's security was being threatened by the USSR. Or did you forget that there were Soviet subs off our shores pointing nuclear missiles at the USA. If the USSR didn't attack Afghanistan in the first place, OBL would not have been trained by the USA.

Saddam Hussein was armed and given money by the USA when he was fighting Iran, when Iran was holding hostages for 444 days. Have you ever heard the phrase, "The enemy of my enemy..., is my friend." Arming and supporting Saddam Hussein, at that time in history, was the RIGHT thing to do. Ayatholla Khomeini was the enemy of the USA. You're right, we gave Iraq the WMD weapons. He had them. He abused their use. And the USA was right to go after them. He had 6 months to hide them or give them to some other country..., but rest assured..., they were there.

Not all war is obscene!!! (Q) Was it obscene for the USA to go to war against Germany in 1941? (A) No! 11,000,000 died in Hitler's death camps. The was in Iraq is proper. The USA only created carnage after 9/11/2001.

(Q) Was the Iraqi army decimated during Operation Desert Storm? (A) No. The elite portions of the Iraqi Army survived Operation Desert Storm. The Iraqi Army was never an imminent threat to the USA. But, be assured that Saddam Hussein and his henchmen were, through their support and assistance to terroist groups. Saddam Hussein was on TV writing $25,000 checks to families of homicide bombers. What do you think he was doing behind the scenes?

(Q) Is everyone is scared to death of terrorists attacking us? (A) No. Because we're taking the fight to them.

(Q) Did the USA really have a "record high" surplus? No. The "surplus" was for that budget year only. The USA still had trillions of dollars in national debt, when the President took office in 2001.

The President was in office 7 months prior to 9/11/2001. Hardly enough time to effect any change.

(Q) Why has the USA accomplished nothing in the way of our own domestic affairs? (A) Because of 9/11/2001! 9/11/2001 changed EVERYTHING. The President was forced into a global war against Islamo-Facist terrorism. And make no mistake..., Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Alaxa Martyrs, etal, are ALL THE SAME PEOPLE!!!!

You post that recent polls indicate that Americans feel no safer now than we did pre-9/11. I remind you that pre-9/11/2001, the USA was not at war. Now we are. Feeling less safe during a war is appropriate. The people on the west coast of the USA didn't feel too safe after 12/7/1941.

You state that the USA now has more threats. I disagree. If someone tries to hijack a plane nowadays, I very much doubt that the plane will make it to the Pentagon, the Empire State Bldg., or the Sears Tower.

We may be a decadent society. But, we are the most free known to ever exist. We are not war mongers. We fight, only when threatened. We are not greedy. We give more aid to the rest of the world then all of the other countries combined. We are not callous. If we were, then beheadinging would not concern us. And, we have one important thing that the Roman Empire didn't have. And I'll wager that you can't determine what that is.

The President wasn't elected on name recognition. He was elected because his predecessor disgraced the office. Had his predecessor not acted the way he did. Gore would've been President on 9/11/2001. And guess what..., 9/11/2001 would've happened anyway, and the USA would have made the same decisions under Gore that it made under Bush.

You say that everyone is so quick to say that oil is not the reson for the current conflict. One question for you. Where would the USA be without a free-flow of oil? It's a certainty that one of the resons that the USA is at war..., is to protect that relatively inexpensive supply of oil. Wouldn't you be the first to complain if you had no heat or electricty??? I'll wager that you'd be at the head of the line in the complaint dept. I want that supply of oil protected, and I'm a simple blue-collar worker. Maybe Bush could've spent some money in the Gulf of Mexico, if 9/11/2001 didn't happen! Once again, 9/11/2001 changed EVERYTHING!

As for the taxes collected on gasoline..., they can't go to alieveiating energy costs, because the liberals in the USA already have that money spent on social programs.

As for Janet Jackson & CBS. CBS broke the rules..., and it got fined..., live with it. Those other shows follow the rules. If CBS had just put a 7 second delay on the broadcast..., they could've avoided the penalty.

I don't know where you learned your history, but the USA has never had people in office that knew the laws of our land like the back of their hands. There may have been a few..., but since DAY 1 to now, the USA has been run by politicians. Domestic affairs have been moved from the front seat to the back seat because (again) 9/11/2001 changed EVERYTHING!

The current President DID win the majority of the electoral college votes in the last election, which is exactly how every presidential election in this nation's history was decided. As for Florida in 2000..., let me remind you that every recount done by every established entity (even those requested by Gore)..., determined that G.W. Bush won the total vote in Florida. PS. There is no state in the country that is not at least 50% caucasion. So, how Florida is primarily minoraties is only known to you. PPS Florida is was who historically conservative, not liberal. Whose listening to the liberal media now??? PPPS. The Vice President does not receive a paycheck from Halliburton. (I guess you knw that you had to resort to lies, when the truth doesn't fit your view of the world). PPPPS: Didn't Ken Lay (Leigh) just get indicted, under the Bush administration???

As for OBL, the hunt is still on. He's sure to be in some hole somewhere. Have you noticed that there have been absolutely no VIDEOtape of him since the USA took out Tora Bora.

You may not be a Democrat, but you are liberal. As for your assertion for being a realist..., I submit that you're only a realist in your own mind. I you really look at things for how they are, then you would remember the victims of 9/11/2001. I was on the NYRRT-1 Team (New York State's Urban Search & Rescue Team) that responded to the WTC in the hours following the attacks. I saw the body parts. I saluted the FDNY members that trained my team, as their bodies were carried out.

Your doctoral degree as well as three masters, is not impressive. If you want a good gauge of things, come out and see the real world.


Posted by: Todd at September 23, 2004 12:58 PM


Posted by: JEFF at September 23, 2004 01:02 PM

637 Scott:

I hope one of your Masters isn't in English Grammar... Your writing skills are terrible!

Posted by: Matt at September 23, 2004 01:24 PM

638 Don't you just love it when democrats blame republicans for the wars. I was a marine that served in Viet Nam. As I remember, the democrat Kennedy started it, the democrat Johnson escalated it, the republican Nixon brought us home. By the way, we never lost the Viet Nam war. Can't speak for all services but the Marine Corp never lost a major battle. What happened was both our civilians and military decided it wasn't worth saving. I know, we used to make money selling ARVIN weapons. They were left all over the place. They were like new. Never fired and only dropped once. Why we didn't polish off the muslims in Lebanon, I don't know. Ask a democrat. Why we protected the muslims in Kosovo? I don't know. Ask a democrat. Why we attacked the Christian Serbs that were fighting against the Islam animals? I don't know. Ask a democrat. They were in charge.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 23, 2004 01:27 PM

639 Here in the u.k the British people over the past thirty years have had terrorism bestowed on us with the I.R.A. We did not yeild, America must not either. The aim of these 'animals' is to intimidate and spread terror. To 'give in' would only put the lives of others at risk, god bless these men and god bless America.

Posted by: paul at September 23, 2004 01:43 PM

640 Todd,

A long time friend of mine lost their lives on 9/11. He worked in the n. tower on the 32nd floor, so there is no need for you to remind of those lost on 9/11. I salute you for the work you did in the aftermath.
I'm fairly sure that you and I have access to the same sources of public information. I agree that those responsable for the attacks should be found and brought to justice.
There was no conclusive intelligance of a link between 9/11 and iraq. As for osama, true there have been no videos form him since the assault on torra borra. Do you take this as meaning he is no longer an immediate threat to us? Does this release him from the liability of what happened 9/11? We are currently occupying iraq.Our soldiers are no longer there for the liberation of those peoples. They are there because we've gotten ourselves into a situation that was not planned for. Of course the itnitial part of the war went as planned, with continuous bombing on a country that has a feeble air defense at best with stealth tech. We are protecting pipelines.
And I agree that another plane hijacking attack is unlikely, but I assure you ther are many ways to create much more damage than hitting the pentagon, or the sears tower, etc. Also an interesting point is that it's been reported that bush had our intelligence agencies vigoursly researching our options on iraq before 9/11. We were the initiators in this conflict. Though I agree sadam is a lunatic, this was a poorly planned venture at best. 9/11 did change the world, but it is time to stop using it to excuse our current situation.
As far as if the flow of oil was to stop tomm., I'm sure you'd be right next to me in line complaining, oh, and by the way, if you think that heat and electricity are all that would go away if that happened, you are wrong. food supplies, industry, healthcare, education, etc. ..etc. would all be gone.
All war is obscene. Do you think there would have been so many killed in the concentration camps if ww2 hadn't happened? Do you not consider it obscene that so many lives are lost during war?
As far as your comment on the cheney / halliburton connection, I suggest you do a little research before calling someone a liar.

By the way, I do live in the real world. In the "real" world, I'm one of the guys that solves problems that "blue collar" workers can't, thanks to my education.

Posted by: scott at September 23, 2004 02:09 PM

641 None in grammar matt, not a teacher

Posted by: scott at September 23, 2004 02:20 PM

642 Skourge (Real), you did *not* have a fierce debate with El campesino. No one did because his reasoned arguments hold water and there wasn't a decent riposte in sight. O yes, plenty of insults and rhetoric.

He did not post under your name either... I know, because I'm his wife and was sat nearby. Check out the bad grammar in the postings purporting to be you. The *real* el campesino is well educated, thank you.

Posted by: auntiedom at September 23, 2004 02:49 PM


Posted by: JEFF at September 23, 2004 03:12 PM

644 No conclusive intelligance!?!? For someone who presumably has a good education..., you're woefully uninformed. As previously noted, Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Alaxa Martyrs Brigade, Islamic Jihad, etal... ARE THE SAME PEOPLE. Saddam Hussein paid the families of homicide bombers. No other link is needed! And that IS CONCLUSIVE.

As for OBL, stop your feable attempt to put words in my mouth. Even if OBL is dead..., his organization (remember: Al-Qaeda, Hamas, etal.) is a threat to the USA, and the USA must take the fight to them, wherever they are. If they want to meet us on the ground in Iraq. So be it. Better there than here. Our soldiers are in Iraq to protect the interests of the USA. There is an old saying that you should be aware of if you really are so smart. No plan survives the first shot fired on the battlefield. Is the current situation in Iraq all sugar and honey? No. But, the military is handling it very well. There are very few reports from soldiers in the field that say the USA is doing poorly. Most of Iraq is secure. There are exceptions. In WWII the USA was losing hundreds of soldiers a day. In Vietnam, hundreds a month. The numbers aren't even close in Iraq. Yes, the USA is protecting pipelines, as well as a myriad of other entities.

As for the comment that terrorists could create much more damage in many ways..., You miss the point, again.

What is soooo interesting that the President had our intelligence agencies vigoursly researching our options in Iraq before 9/11/2001??? Ah, did you forget something called Operation Desert Storm, where Iraq agreed to disarm, then used delay tactics through 17 United Nations demands. At some point, Iraq was going to have to be dealt with, even if 9/11/2001 didn't happen!!!

Iraq attacked Kuwait. The USA & coalition forces liberated Kuwait and demanded that Iraq disarm. Iraq failed to do what it said it would do. The USA decided it would not wait anymore. If you want to say that the USA initiated this conflict, fine, believe what you want. But, the facts and the timeline do not not support your argument. Operation Iraqi Freedom could be in a better position than it is, but the FACT that 9/11/2001 changed EVERYTHING, is not an excuse. It's the TRUTH that you don't want to accept.

No. I wouldn't be in line behind you. I'd be in the line at the recruitment center.

Lastly, if food supplies, industry, healthcare, education, etc., etc. would all be gone, then I ask you why wouldn't you support the fight then?

Again, all war is not obscene. If WWII didn't happen, more than 11,000,000 would have died in those death camps. In the end, WWII saved lives.

I do not consider it obscene that so many lives are lost during war..., if those lives saved millions of others.

As far as your assertion re: Cheney/Halliburton connection, I suggest you do a little MORE research and update your talking points before you call me a liar.

You seem to be of the opinion that a blue-collar worker can't have a college degree. Well, let's compare degrees. I have a BS in chemistry, biology, and mechanical engineering from Renssealer Polytechnic Institute, in Troy, NY.

If your degrees are arts degrees... Don't even talk to me. Your Ph.D. is probably in philosophy..., and it's certain that you're masters degrees are not in English or Literature.

So, go back to Cracker Jack University..., and put some nuts on those supposed degrees of yours. Because, in the real world..., you aren't solving anything.

PS. A person with a real Ph.D. would never permit himself to make posts using such poor grammar. Therefore, I do call you a liar!!!!

Posted by: Todd at September 23, 2004 03:13 PM

645 that was the worst thing i ever saw in my life.
we need 2 pull out of the country on just kill them all.there is no reason why this terrible act should of been done.Even people sentenced to death don't get treated that bad.

Posted by: jamal at September 23, 2004 03:35 PM

646 Get our people out of that country and blow up the whole "DAMN" place!
Screw them all!

Posted by: char at September 23, 2004 03:38 PM

647 Please do not vote for Kerry or more of these incidents will occur. Bush is trying to keep freedom here and around the world. We need to have other nations free to keep our freedom.


Posted by: Adriana at September 23, 2004 04:17 PM

648 What is going on in the world today? Why Cant world peace be dawned upon these unforgiving terroists. Bring these idiots to justice, and fight for what is right, not for what has been done.

Posted by: Mitch at September 23, 2004 04:18 PM

649 Well what can i say ive just seen the video and well im extreemly mad and im not like that normally . ive never been so angry in my whole life.

I hear of deaths all the time and yes u feel for them and their families but after seeing that clip man i cant take it what i have seen i cant seem to come to reason even how these people could listen to that and do it. they have no cause its just a reason to get us back for butting our noses in.

It wont be long before they do it closer to home belive me im from uk and it will happen here first as we have so many here its not hard for them to take a man of the street drunk and do the same thing and film it.

This really shocks the hell out of me sorry for my words but its how i feel.
National security is not anygood against individuals taking matters into there own hands here.

Im glad ive seen this video because its opened my eyes to the danger we are in even at home. Think about how easy it would be......

god bless every inocent soul involved in all this crap from pure murderers.

Posted by: casper at September 23, 2004 04:27 PM

650 seriously. those fucking iraqi fucks, if i could gun them down with my ak47 i would, its so harsh, and whoever is caught, is basically going to die, neither the usa or the uk are going to negotiate with terrorists. no matter how much their families plead. so out of order. fucking inbreds

Posted by: m00k at September 23, 2004 04:31 PM

651 i felt the same but if we did that were just as bad but i had a thought.

The way to deal with these situations is maybe simpler than we think!

fight fire with fire.

lets say for example a terrist is taken prisoner but a head terroist by ither uk or usa.

The then take hostiges uk and or us well heres what wed do lets say they beaded them and videod it then we just take the person they are trying to free and do exacly the same on video to that terroist they want freeing..

heres why i say this....

we aint killing just any inocent soul were killing a true player if releaced they would continue.

they would see there idol killed in the same way and on video.

This would also show them that when we catch them we will publicly braudcast the same event over and over to there people we hold under terrorism laws.

we publicy showed hangin so why cant we do like they do but to the terroists and make sure the other terroists see it too...

good idea or bad?

im not one for taking life for life but in this case its taking a life thats killed many inocent lifes for a life of an inocent man.

Posted by: casper at September 23, 2004 04:46 PM

652 As I read these comments my heart aches for the human race. This is truely a world who has been lost in the dark. I read arrogance, anger, ego, self rightousness, and sophomoric exclaims. Here is a race whos self image is so wrapped up in education that the level of degree of which you so proudly earned determines ones worth and value. We must remember that humans only use approx. 10% of their brain. That includes the average PhD. Have you ever stood alone on top of a mountain? You will find out quickly just how small you really are. Have you ever been caught in a current of a sea. You will find out how powerless you really are. I am glad that I have had these experiences because they nurture humility and it was there that I found my strength and value.

We have allowed ourselves to be poisoned with anger and hate caused by words and images. I hear alot of people say what so-and-so should do. What are you doing? Do you think by griping on a web sight that you have improved the nation?

God gives us the choice to follow Him or go the other way. He will not force's a choice. What I have read here today blows my mind. You are judging what the terrorists have done and yet you are 1/2 a step behind them. You quibble that they started it first. This war has been going on so long that to trace it would bring us back to the beginning of time. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

The Bible says "we war not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities". Yes........good and evil. Seeing what is written here today shows me that many are doing just what the enemy wants. He has provoked you to hate and hate divides. Remember the old "divide and conquer". Some of you are making it just too easy. You think evil lies in a person. People merely carry it out. This is a spiritual war. The only way to win is through prayer.

I am issueing a challenge. Say a prayer. It doesn't have to be long or eloquent just tell HIM how you feel and ask for help. I believe that those who choose not to pray really don't want these horrific things to end because it gives them too much opportunity to blow their own horn.

Posted by: befuddled at September 23, 2004 04:58 PM

653 Bush should go ahead and clean up these militant islamists. OK, Bush opened a can of worms by going into this country and maybe it isn't worth it. The future will show.


Posted by: Tania at September 23, 2004 05:09 PM

654 u telling us muttering a few words will save us ... did it do the others anygood... NO
i dont diss god i love him.
But hes powerless to help us here. he does not have enough influence over the world it seems we have evil .. good praying people. and just people .

Just because yer good dont meen u goto god.

So count the odds on what powers rule this world right now.


so as i say
Fight fire with fire...#

im not one for taking life for life but in this case its taking a life thats killed many inocent lifes for a life of an inocent man

Posted by: casper at September 23, 2004 05:15 PM

655 and i did pray for them and also did ask the lord for guidance and also for help. just for your infomation.

Posted by: casper at September 23, 2004 05:17 PM

656 I didn't watch the video and I don't plan to do it. I will not do these sick guys a favor.
Please don't watch it. The fact that this happened is enough. I am glad the quality of the pictures is not too good.

It is very saddening to read that Eugene screamed in agony. I hope he is in a wonderful heaven. May he rest in peace.

I wouldn't even want to kill the murderers - this would just be going down to their levels, which are driven by basic instincts - definitely not driven by a sane mindset and the will to achieve changes in a civilized and educated manner.

These freaks must come from an uncivilized, rural society - to cut the head off. It is like killing a cow or a pig in the boonies 100 years ago.

Posted by: Tania at September 23, 2004 05:27 PM

657 maledetti bastardi, il vostro Dio vi farà marcire all'inferno

Posted by: Franco at September 23, 2004 05:31 PM

658 sono tutta la malvagità li hanno lasciati tutto il dado nel dolore

Posted by: casper at September 23, 2004 05:34 PM

659 Salamander made a very good point a while ago that I, after seeing the video agree with. We were all swayed to belive in the evils of Saddam and his regime. No he was not a saint but what he was to the USA was controlled. His country was very limited in the things they could do and we kept it that way.

As bad as he was we still can not prove a link between him and al-Quaida and the tragedy in New York. As much as supporters of the war don't want to admit Bush went in there for an old grudge and to rape the country of oil. There is no way the he and is men calculated this horror and now it is too late for them to admit wrong in an election year whithout losing support and their power.

Fuck politics right now. If you are a democrat, republican, independent, or whatever take a look at these pictures and videos again and let your human side tell you that our fellow citizens and troops are in harms way for no reason.

get that ass off the computer and take some kind of action to help out, anything. Send a support letter, aid, register someone to vote (1-866-316-8683 toll free voter reg.)

And lastly I'm of the belife that if you really are in support of this war, you think we are doing the right thing then go to the website and sign yourself up to go do what you think is right. if you can't go right now, don't worry you can register yourself as reserved and go later. Too old, that's ok too, im sure you have a young daughter, son, nephew, neice, or even cousin that you can convince to do the right thing by our country.

Posted by: forever1000 at September 23, 2004 05:45 PM

660 What a bunch of sick bastards. I'm sorry I watched not one, but ALL of them! I was driven to witness the horrible atrocities that up till now, was in denial about. I mean, I knew they happened, but just couldn't believe, I've got the visual images in my head forever.

God bless all of them, including Bigsley, who most certainly will meet the same fate, probably today, although I haven't heard anything as of yet.

Why the fuck are we IN Iraq anyway? You all are saying that we didn't start it they did, but they weren't from Iraq!!!!

we need to pull out NOW, then nuke the motherfuckers. That's pretty simple reasoning.

Fuck them all.

Posted by: Laura B. at September 23, 2004 05:54 PM

661 Woooohooooo Guyfalksnight!

Posted by: casper at September 23, 2004 06:10 PM

662 To Paul in the UK: Thank you. From an American.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 23, 2004 06:40 PM

663 So many of these comments that I am reading are so scary. All I hear from you people is revenge. I think that the last thing that this area of the world needs is people (who shouldn't be there in the first place) deciding that their cause is the righteous cause (i.e. invading Iraq and bringing "freedom") and treating everyone else there as though they are sub-human. I feel sympathy for the families of the people who have been killed, but also, for once, tr to place yourself in the shoes of the people who are being invaded. How would you feel if someone forcefully came into your country and made you start to live by their rules? It's a simple excercise, but really try to empathise with people over there whose families have been killed and being labelled as "collateral damage". Picture them not as Muslims, picture them as white Americans and I bet you will feel different.

Posted by: bguyy at September 23, 2004 06:41 PM

664 To Befuddled: You befuddle me. Ask the recent beheading victims if a prayer will stop a knife from cutting your head off. All the victims were praying. Remember followers of islam are praying too. praying for more victims. Get real, I just prayed to God and he told me to get even.

Posted by: Greyrooster at September 23, 2004 07:03 PM

665 This video is the reason why Bush has our troops over there. Do you want this happening in your neighborhood. I sure as hell don't. Bush made a commitment to fight a war on terrorism and I am damn glad that our president has balls enough to oppose the damn liberals who would rather leave the terrorists where they are. If we do that then another 9-11 is going to happen. This video is sickening. My deepest prayers for the Family of Armstrong. Let's get them outta here or atleast keep them busy in thier own hell hole over there.

Posted by: tuck at September 23, 2004 07:27 PM

666 BQUYY you dummy. We are not there to tell the Iraqi's to live by our rules. We are there to allow them to live by their rules. We went to Iraq to free the people from a mad dog tyrant. We are attempting let them vote in a government of their choice. Free from Saddam and free from islamic fundalmentalist terrorists. Iraq in the hands of Saddam or terrorists is a threat to all peace loving people. A free democratic republic in the middle east will grow to other countries in the area. That is what some regimes are scared of. That is why they are supporting the terrorists with guns and money. You've got your head up your butt. Pull it out and see the real picture. Islam is the problem. Not us being white. Saddam is the one who was treating the Iraqis as sub-human, not us. Did Saddam arrest any of his soldiers for mistreating his prisoners. Get real

Posted by: greyrooster at September 23, 2004 07:30 PM

667 Whew... watching this was, and words fail to convey the real meaning, painful in the extreme. This type of thing is always bad when it happens to anyone at anytime. My heart goes out to all of the hostages and their families. I've read many of the comments and wonder why this is not of greater importance in our current events. The media and GOV are downplaying these executions and this is quite upsetting.

However, I am a PATRIOT and KNOW that this is the best country on the planet and if the time comes will gladly give my life for it. We need to stay the course, find these THINGS and bring them to justice.

One thing puzzles me though. I don't know how this kind of brutality can be compared to a military action. It's one thing to meet armies in battle with collateral damage that is unintended and a completely different thing to preform cold blooded slaughter on an innocent. I mean the whole intent is to find someone innocent NOT someone involved and kill them in a horrible fashion for display purposes to show how desperate they are that they would be willing to abase they're humanity for the sake of terror.

They have sold they're soul to the Devil. For what purpose? I don't expect an intelligent response form such as them. They lost they're intelligence and humanity. How can they think that they could ever run a peaceful world after what they have done to themselves? They are nothing more than fountains of evil. Anything they would do now will be tainted. Courage people... fight the good fight... we will prevail!

God have mercy on us all as we are going to need it.

Posted by: Dan at September 23, 2004 07:44 PM

668 You Canadians need to piss off. What is your problem? Your did'nt have the balls to join us. I guess Viet Nam pulled them up. I was in Toronto last year. Looks like half the city was wearing their laundry on theirs heads. Could that be the problem. Have they allready got you running? Suck it up Canada the good ole USA will fight the battle for you to.

Posted by: Greyrooster at September 23, 2004 07:49 PM

669 Now I've heard it all. A Brit calling an American arrogant. Oh well, the world does seem to be changing.

Posted by: Greyrooster at September 23, 2004 08:02 PM

670 Whew... watching this was, and words fail to convey the real meaning, painful in the extreme. This type of thing is always bad when it happens to anyone at anytime. My heart goes out to all of the Iraq’s and their families. I've read many of the comments and wonder why this is not of greater importance in our current events. The media and GOV are downplaying these executions and this is quite upsetting.
However, I am a PATRIOT (Another word for Terrorist) and KNOW that this is the best country on the planet and if the time comes will gladly give my life for it. We need to stay the course, find these invaders and bring them to justice.
One thing puzzles me though. I don't know how our kind of brutality can be compared to a military action. It's one thing to meet armies in battle with collateral damage that is unintended and a completely different thing to preform cold blooded slaughter on an innocent Iraqi people. I mean the whole intent is to find someone innocent NOT someone involved and kill them in a horrible fashion for display purposes to show how desperate we are that we would be willing to abuse our humanity for the sake of terror.
We have sold our soul to the Devil. For what purpose? I don't expect an intelligent response. We lost our intelligence and humanity. How can we think that they could ever run a peaceful world after what we have done to them? WE are nothing more than fountains of evil. Anything we would do now will be tainted. Courage people... fight the good fight... we will prevail!
God have mercy on us all for what we are doing as we are going to need it.

Posted by: Dan at September 23, 2004 09:08 PM

671 Hey all you Americans – You have more filth in your own country than the whole remainder of planet earth.
Try cleaning up your own place before dictating to the rest.
How many murders do you have in the USA every day. In most other countries it makes the headlines when someone is murdered as it’s not the norm. Not yours, it’s so common it doesn’t even get a mention. Think about the mass murderers you’ve had alone, they are way too numerous to mention. Your court rooms are clogged with the scum. No one deserves to have there head sliced off, but be real everyone what do you expect when you turn up in a country who now hates you so much, and why? Let me see could it be because you murdered their men, women & children, destroyed their land & homes?
Your military has raped & tortured, you hold many of their people in prisons, guilty only by association.

You are all outraged with these gruesome beheadings, as are the rest of us. But are you any better – what’s this Electric Chair thingy?
That’s pretty Barbaric don’t you think?

We all know there was no weapons of mass destruction,. Oh but there was OIL, Oh the OIL.

Posted by: Graham Wells at September 23, 2004 09:10 PM

672 This was a dispicable act of hate and I am in no way condoning it. However, as I read through the postings I am struck by how the opinions voiced sound like a therapy session for a couple in a bad relationship. The act we speak of is evil but so are the responses. The reason evil exists in the universe is so we may know ourselves as love,.. as peace. If all you will do is lose your mind and "nuke" everyone or respond with the same hate and aggression to thier "women and children" then you have become what you abore,..hate and evil as well. It is like in Star wars... If you allow the darkness to consume you, you become that. That is why Christ, Mr. Bush's own declared master said to turn the other cheek,... because he would not allow himself to become the darkness that confronted him. Is this an easy lesson ? No. But if our true goal is peace,.. then we must be peace. Hate will not heal hate. I am not a pacifist myself , I would not hesitate to use force to defend myself or anyone from being attacked. I would however not go into the worst parts of town to pre emptively seek out and attack the "evil" because there is a lot more on the planet than we can easily clean up. Yes, perhaps someday, some "evil" soul may find their way to my doorstep with the intention of doing me harm. In fact some already have, but I will not live my life based on that fear. In all the days that I live I will live as peace. So what do we do. Build more bombs or build more schools? Train soldiers or feed children? Live as love or live as hate? That choice is for every individual. Yes , there are times when we must all act to defend others. Dafur is a real time example of such. So was Rawanda. I don't have a judgement of the actions we have taken. It has happened. But I do question the motivation and intelligence for why we invaded Iraq and seriously wonder if it has done anything to make anyone's life better. We shall see?

Posted by: blisswave at September 23, 2004 09:21 PM


Posted by: CTF at September 23, 2004 09:35 PM

674 I can see that some Liberals have sunk to a new low by using the grisly deaths of hostages for their anti-Bush propaganda.

Posted by: Jordan Martin at September 23, 2004 09:49 PM


Posted by: CTF at September 23, 2004 09:49 PM

676 How dare you Winky or whatever nickname that is sit there and make fun of us calling those killers say our soilders and wearing armor and riding tanks while the terrorist are wearing bandanas,,,,,I call it intelligence,,,,,,,atleast we are not hiding behind a mask,,,,,,that is cowardly!!!!my husband has been in iraq two years now working to keep peace for your winky weak lazy ass,,,,it is time you show some respect for our men and women and our country or keep your damn comments to your winky self.........I am proud of my husband who has spent 3 years out of the last four away from his small you not think they would walk right in your own home and behead or torture you to death or your family ,,,they would........they live for that.....I bet you would be wearing some armor and your family...wouldn't you???? your the coward

Posted by: madarmywife at September 23, 2004 09:57 PM

677 I guess people responding in my name have a real problem as in they need to grow up instead playing baby 8 year nah nah nah nah games.

Posted by: Dan at September 23, 2004 10:05 PM

678 Maybe if a beheading happened to every person in the US's loved one, people would open their eyes and hear things a bit more clearly. The terrorists are screwing themselves by providing us with their arrogantly made home video. Soon the majority of America will see just how evil these terrorists are. They deserve to be tortured for days and then shot in the face.

Uh CTF there is a thing called collateral damage, there are innocent people who might get wiped out in the 100 square mile crater blast.

Posted by: steve at September 23, 2004 10:11 PM


Posted by: CTF at September 23, 2004 10:24 PM


Posted by: CTF at September 23, 2004 10:33 PM

681 For the last few years I have been quite happy being Canadian as I am able to side step the loud, ignorant American stereotype. I know there are some of you there that have to fight this stereotype every day and my strength goes out to you. There are too many people who believe might makes right and that you should "NUKE EM...DROP THE BOMB" to solve all your problems.

On top of this is the RAMPANT patriotism that currently happening in your country. When groups of people believe that their country is above all others, they end up giving themselves the moral right to do what they please in promoting their way of life. Look towards Nazi Germany and you can see the results of such a program.

I ask you, if you really believe in the "freedom" that you are giving to the Iraqi people, would you let them freely elect a government that your government may not agree with. For example a fundamentalist or communist government that still allowed free elections? Answer that for me.

Posted by: bguyy at September 23, 2004 10:39 PM

682 Greyrooster: The point I was trying to make is that hate only serves to eat a person alive. Its bitterness splashes out on everyone and everything you come in contact with in one way or another. It only causes harm and does not one bit of good. Do we want vindication or do we want it to stop? Name a war that stopped the hatred. Where does it end? With individuals........thats where. We have to decide to either foster and fester or say enough is enough.

Posted by: befuddled at September 24, 2004 12:16 AM

683 May be Friday will be the day Jesus Christ returns for his children, and we'll meet him the sky.... and he'll just drop the heat on this world...and we'll say good bye...

Be sure you know Jesus as you Personal Savior, John 3:16 ! KJ

Posted by: me at September 24, 2004 12:34 AM

684 me:
I am with you there! Do you believe, as I, that we are in the end times? The battle of Armegeddon seems to be just around the corner!

Posted by: BAN at September 24, 2004 12:46 AM

685 Get our men out of there and level the place, I pray for the Armstrong family.

Posted by: Mary Lou at September 24, 2004 01:03 AM

686 Why is there so much hate? I will only say this, the hate that I see on this site is exactly what the the terrorists want. And honestly, the hateful people sound exactly like the terrorists. How can an "intelligent" person want to "nuke them all"? I think that the each person has the right to express his/her right to free speech, so go ahead and spout your hate and your religious bull. But you know the more you spout the Bible, the more likely you are to turn people away from you.

Posted by: PDxMOM at September 24, 2004 01:05 AM

687 The beheadings should not surprise anyone. These clowns are all the son's of Ishmel, the Bastard child of Hagar. I say that we capture the bums and let the families of the one's that have been decapitated and let those families do what they want to do, in spite of what the ACLU says. These muslim clowns have one objective and that is to kill the Christian people of this world. The muslims do not have a GOD, but they are of their father, who is Satan himself.

Posted by: Big Joe at September 24, 2004 01:37 AM

688 This world is sick and i feel so bad for the pain of the victims and there families i could not imagine watching that my stomache turns i hate war of any kind can t we just have peace in the world.The creator of this world made everyone for a purpose there are good and bad people in every race i cannot stand prejudice in any way but, Whether or not any are offended at this,I do have an opinion.You may agree or disagree its your choice. But i dont see how people have there bible as an IDOL ,you may quote whatever scriptures you like although the bible has been altered so many times it is a good history book that teaches people to have sacrifices? And kill thats good and why does god allow this to happen in the world? I have done extensive research on religions and what not maybe the first thing you should do is study jesus christ(hezeus christos which is a greek god of mythology ) remember there was no j in hebrew language and the new testament was written by greeks. How many gods did they have? as well as the egyptian empire and so on......DO SOME RESEARCH.......

Posted by: naynay at September 24, 2004 02:56 AM

689 Befuddled: Your still befuddled: Name a war that stopped the hatred. Okay, how about the mother of them all, WW2. The German people are not killing the Jewish people today. No more gas chambers. The German people no longer wish to depopulate Russia. The German people no longer invade other European contries. The Japanese are no longer killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Chinese. The Japanese are no longer keeping tens of thousands of Koreans as forced prostitutes. The reason it stopped. We kicked their butts and showed them a better way. The result is they have become respected ecomonic powers. We removed the extremists from their countries. The Japanese are good people but they allowed the extremists in their government to result to torture and murder. The islamic extremists are allowing the same thing. In short we nuked the Japanese for attacking us. The Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbour. The rag heads attacked us at the World Trade Center. Why would we not hold the Camel Jockies to the same standard. Are we saying that the rag heads are worth more than Japanese. Now my liberal friends, that is what I call racist.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 03:00 AM

690 BQUYY: You American hating Canadian asshole. America never caused Nazism. But we helped cure it. We are trying to give the Iraqi people a free election. Thats why good American boys are dying while you canadian sissys sit and watch. Your problem is that you are ashamed of your country's cowardice. Therefore you attack us. Canada has become nothing more than a door to America. If America is so bad why is the list to come here so long? You call leadership and responsibility arrogance. Now crawl back in your hole and stay there.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 03:24 AM

691 What we have to understand is that not all iraqi's are the same. But on the other hand the so called new goverment in charge of iraq need to take some responsibility for what is hapening. I am british and our troops are there too. We would want them to fight for justise but there does not seem to bee any.

Posted by: Ady at September 24, 2004 06:11 AM

692 Re: Greyrooster

I am from the Netherlands and we have Canadian graveyards all over Holland which are a tribute and a reminder if their great sacrifice to the European people. You betterget your story right. The US is mostly IN IT for the money or the oil, or industrial secrets or whatever sweet deal they can make to steal heir way into world power. I have nothing against US people, but do not think that you are the only ones gighting for a cause. In fact many nations, including Canada are usually needed to help you get our of the mess you created yourself.

The topic here is the beheading of these poor citizens of already 3 to 5 different nations.
I find it more than sad that this blog is used for political bullshit, where we should concentrate on the sick sad reality of extemists slaughtering innocent people. This would have happened anyway, also when US would not have attacked Iraq. This is the way the hate of these people works and it has only just begun I am afraid.

I wish we could not argue so much over Rebublican, democrats, but instead put our heads togeher and fight together against these beasts.
Not entering Iraq does not wipe this scum from this earth, it woiuld have hidden them, yes, but it was all about to happen anyway, believe me. These people are evil and have a hatred against the western world because they live in a world of fear, anger and total indoctrination by their so called merciful God.

I say, an eye for an eye..... let your blindness not make you feel comfortable....

Posted by: grownup at September 24, 2004 07:37 AM

693 ooooooohhhh even worse because it could have been prevented. WHY SACRIFICE SOMEONES LIFE LIKE THAT??????

God is watching and it cannot go like that.


Posted by: phil oduor at September 24, 2004 07:39 AM

694 All I can say us Bally Phew to all you blind one eyed Yankies, you deserve all that you get in the world. The Islamists hate you for supporting the jews and going after teh Oil,Bush is mad, Cheney is mad, You are all so blind and uninformed about the truth of the world.

Posted by: RussellAyer at September 24, 2004 07:55 AM

695 I've watched the video. A friend of mind sent it.

The act itself is unsurprising. Most of the Islamic world are militant fanatics. They behead and torture their own all the time. Innocent female rape victims included. Look it up.

Eugene Armstrong shouldn't have been there. US shouldn't have been there. Those of you who voted for Bush shouldn't have. Nevermind, it's all water under bridges now. The important thing: what are you going to do about it?

Why are they publishing these videos? To push your buttons. To get you to kill more Iraqis, so they get more recruits. Nuke Mecca? These people would so totally welcome it. It would prove them right.

And you would be worse than them. Way worse.

So you already know what to do.

Posted by: Eugen Leitl at September 24, 2004 08:03 AM

696 These Poor people my heart goes out to every single one of them,you know what really grabs me
they are bound up like cattle if these "brave"
fighters are that why not give them a chance to at least die fighting,you wont reason with these animals they are below animals to be honest,im sorry if i dount make much sense i just wonder
when the world is going to realise the actions needed to be taken to stop these monsters is going to mean getting down to their level and showing them what true revenge is,it kinda makes that prison "scandal" look very timid now doesnt it.

Posted by: Andrew at September 24, 2004 08:30 AM

697 The brave Canadians who died in Europe 60 yrs ago are one thing. The America bashers of today are another. Apples and oranges. Probably not even the same people. Like I said before, I've recently been there. Have you? In your post you seem to have forgotten the many more American dead. In fact, probably more dead than the Dutch who live there. Being 3 thousand miles away I doubt that we were in Hitler's plans for invasion. So why do you think we were there. I quess for the oil. America is trying to control the Islamic terror. What is your country doing. Waiting again. Did America make a mistake 65 yrs ago? Maybe so. At least one Dutchman didn't learn a thing.

Posted by: Greyrooster at September 24, 2004 09:02 AM

698 I started reading these posts, and maybe got one quarter of the way through. I really do not need to read any more. I am proud to state that I am a veteran, and even though I was stationed state-side and did not see any 'action', it is because of people like me and those who are currently serving in the military that made/make it possible for each and every one of you to state your mind. I've seen the videos, I've watched and/or read the news, and I'm still not sure which way to turn. One part of me wants to avenge those that have suffered, and another part of me wants to say the hell with everyone else - lets close our borders and let them kill each other. But see, what makes our country great is our people and the fact that we want to help. Even if our help is not wanted. Others hate our country for various reasons, but I think it may be because they want what we here take for granted. FREEDOM. Let's make sure that we NEVER let our freedom disappear. There are those inside and outside who want this to happen.

Posted by: Ray at September 24, 2004 09:09 AM

699 russellayer: another sick Jew hater. He thinks the civilized world should step back and allow islamic animals to cut the heads off of millions of Jews. Did'nt we do that before?

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 09:11 AM

700 What is all this America going after the oil crap. Oil is an international commodity. It's sold on the market by a biding process. All countries buy it the same way. We haven't taken oil from anyone. We buy it. Same as all nations. What a bunch of idiots. We pay Iraq and all nations for oil they sell us. It goes to the nation that sells it to international companies like BP the largest in the world. Anyone know what the B stands for?
Another thing. These so called brits bashing America are probably ungrateful islamic immigrants. The true brits are and have allways fought beside us.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 09:28 AM

701 MARK M & TODD: My kind of guys.
auntiedom: Saddam's kind of bitch.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 09:34 AM

702 I pity those of you such as (naynay)who down grade the bible and God's word, it has never been changed or as you say altered, only made easier to understand......I would be afraid to go up against God himself if I were you,,,,,as for Mr. Armstrong I am sure he was thinking of God and the bible upon his death, it was his only hope left...May he rest in God's hands now,,,and yes God is the one who gets vengence....again I say the fear of the Lord is the beginning of naynay watch what you say toward our father the Lord Jesus Christ and his word..........they are one and watch for his return, the sign of the times is at hand

Posted by: madarmywife at September 24, 2004 09:34 AM

703 naynay this torture and death of Eugene was in no way comparable to the sacrafice's in the bible or old testament,,,,,,those were sacrafices made to God before Jesus came in the new testament and sacraficed himself, the ultimate sacrafice , a sinless man, these people did not learn beheading because of the sacrafices in the Old Testament, what are you saying? (sacrafices were done in obedience to God, giving up your best in his honor,,,,you DO SOME RESEARCH Mr Armstong and the others were tortured, and murdered that is all the acknowledgement the Terrorist need, Look how easy it would be for them to come in our own home and take our children, and that is where 9-11 was heading, no country was responsible, just terrorism and a hatred for freedom or as they call us infidels . Iraq was a good place to start, full of terrorism on it's own people, those people do not know any difference and it will take more than one president's election to help bring the Iraqi people any self worth or fearless exsistance after what they have seen happen in their life, What if we had left the Jews and Germany to fend for itself and fight it out between themselves....all that would be left is pure evil.....such as with suddam....and his easy connection to terrorism..........I know bla bla a school teacher, preacher's daughter who believes in our Lord Jesus Christ and wife of US Soilder who is in Iraq,,,,I just can't help myself..sorry

Posted by: preachers'daughter at September 24, 2004 09:55 AM

704 Can you believe that Dutch nut who calls himself grownup. He claims America is in Iraq for the money. We've spent $200,000,000,000 on this war, and more to come. Yea DIPSHIT we're in it for the money. He claims we're after industrial secrets. The entire middle east has only applied for 270 international pattens in the last 20 yrs.
The little country of South Korea received 1600 in the same period. Hewlitt Packard averages 10 a day. After industrial secrets my ass. The Islamic world isn't even #1 in camels anymore. They are a failed civilization because of the their stupid religion. So DUTCHNUT you need to grow up and get your facts straight.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 09:56 AM

705 The terrorists think that they are doing this for Alah, But Alah is a forgiving god not a terroris. These people are just plain old murderers they will not be going to heaven like they belive. They are doing this for their own satisfaction.

Posted by: Tricia at September 24, 2004 11:18 AM

706 Greyrooster:
It stopped what they were doing but has it stopped the hatred? The stuff I am reading here is dripping with it in the form of petty arguements, finger pointing, and swagger.

I would someday like to go to the countries of the people that have been writing out here. I love people and want to meet as many as I can before my time is up. I would love to FREELY travel Europe & Scandinavia to experience their culture and even do a Pilgrimmage to Israel. And I would like to do it without being hated! I would love to go back to Caravigno,Italy to a little ristorante called La Roustica for their fabulous lasagna. I was stationed there for 3 years and was robbed and threatened by some on more than one occasion. But, mostly I met with a wonderful culture full of giving and warm people. The point is you can't wipe em all out on account of a few A-holes.
Yes, the terrorists must be stopped! (A cheap bullet in the brain oughta do it! None of this fly them here to face trial crap). But why fight amongst ourselves? We all want the same thing: Terrorist=dead and restored freedom to work and play without the fear of the bus/train/plane we just boarded being used to make a sorry point.
Any way thats all I have to say on the subject. I have never been on a blog before and realize it isn't my thing. So I will be signing off for good.

To all those in Canada, Mexico, Australia and across the Atlantic: I hope oneday we can meet and share a cup of...................whatever you drink, where you are!!!!!

Posted by: befuddled at September 24, 2004 11:37 AM

707 Greyrooster:
PS: which war was it that was supposed to be the "war to end all wars"?

Posted by: befuddled at September 24, 2004 12:04 PM

708 Kill every last one of the people in IraQ!!!! Im a Marine who just got back from over there and those people all deserve to die. Ive killed 4 of the with my rifle and i wish i could have killed a whole lot more!!!! You peole make me sick if u support Kerry! Hes a peice of crap that has no backbone. Bush does what people have wanted for 10yrs and now you peole Bitch!!! Move to IraQ!!! From a troop i am glad to be home for now but look forward to killing more of those bastards. Go Bush!!!!! November comes you people can get on the first plane to Iraq if you dont like It!

Posted by: Justin at September 24, 2004 12:49 PM

1 The garden of Edan was in Iraq
2 Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!
3 Noah built the ark in Iraq.
4 The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.
5 Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq.
6 Isaac's wife Rebecca is fro Nahor, which is in Iraq.
7 Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.
8 Jonah preached Nineveh-which is in Iraq.
9 Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.
10 Babylon,which is in Iraq,destroyed Jerusalem.
11 Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq.
12 Belshazzar, the king of Babylon saw the"writing on the wall"in Iraq.
13 The wise men were from Iraq.
14 Peter preached in Iraq.
15 The "Empire of Man"described Revelation is called Babylon,which was a city in Iraq!


This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle, Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...The following verse is from the Quran, (the Islamic Bible)

Quran(9:11)-For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo,while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced;for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah;and there was peace.(Note the verse number!)

Posted by: paul at September 24, 2004 01:14 PM

710 befuddled:
Any time you want to come to Canada to have a cup of coffee, you're welcome.

I travelled throughout Europe for 4 months this summer and loved meeting so many interesting people in their own cultures. All you hear about from the news are the people who commit these horrible crimes, never about the intelligent, thoughtful people who are just trying to live their lives. By saying "NUKEM ALL" you are wiping out everyone. It's like looking at the U.S. and seeing all the murders that are going on. Why not nuke the communities that these murders are committed in? Why not apply the same standard that greyrooster is out there applying and kill whole communities because of a few people? Unfortunately, all of the talk that I see from greyrooster makes him no better than any one of the "terrorists" out there. All you are promoting is the same cycle of revenge and hatred.

The world is never an us versus them scenario. Every real situation is a complicated mix and match of possibilities. Once you learn this, you can start to have intelligent decisions on world issues. By greyrooster saying "The true brits are and have allways fought beside us." he basically states that you're either with us or against us and if you ever want to stop, think about it and change your mind, you are now against us. It's a tactic to stifle debate.

Posted by: bguyy at September 24, 2004 01:41 PM

711 Hey all, you guys want to help a brotha out??

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford, owner of this blog at September 24, 2004 02:31 PM

712 Well i am sad to say that bible scholars even agree that the bible has been changed so u really need to read your bible.First of all who wrote it learn it is king james version? anyways whatever u like to believe is your choice i believe in a creator but i dont believe that that god as you may say his commandment thou shalt not kill but he sent his son for a sacrifice oh my god are you totally nuts grow up. you probally celebrate helloween and christmas and all that good pagan chit eh and yes i am also a proud CANADIAN to. By the way FRANKLIN are good books to do you believe everything you read or what do some research and use your mind as it was given for.I am so glad that i dont have your closed mind , how many people and nations did god KILL IN YOUR SO CALLED HAND GUIDE . With all the religions in the world i find it hard to believe that christians are the only right way.

Posted by: naynay at September 24, 2004 03:47 PM

713 Lets all get on a bus and go over there and kick their ass.

Posted by: Gatz at September 24, 2004 04:17 PM

714 Allie from I have a short memoty france: Nobody is saying anything bad about the UK. America respects the UK. America knows who is worth a crap. They have a few idiots. Thats natural. The point is France has more than their share of idiots. You being one of them.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 04:21 PM

715 Hey 'naynay' you talk about using one's brain,just a suggestion, but you really need to 'brush up' your English grammer.

Posted by: paul at September 24, 2004 04:27 PM

716 Auntiedom you low life. The French never did crap for America. The truth is we had the Brits bottled up and outnumbered. The French arrived at Yorktown to stab the Brits in the back while the Americans fought them bravely from the front. They had no lofty ideals about helping the Colonies. Their cause was merely to hurt their competitor for European domination. Something they never achieved.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 04:31 PM

717 A continuation for that Auntiedom bitch. The french paid for there treachery a few years later when the Brits kicked there asses at Waterloo. I must admit the French had a great leader named Napoleon Bonaparte. An Italian.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 04:39 PM

718 tell me again why our president keeps us over there? how many more families have to see there loved ones slaughtered on t.v. if u ask me it's sick and the prez doesn't give two cares about no body but himself.. i don't see any of his family dying like that for there country....

Posted by: trish at September 24, 2004 04:46 PM

719 I feel we must strike back. As I said before, these people at just out of the trees. Thats what they understand. If we strike back hard enough American hating posters like BQUYY, COOGARUK, HARDBRIT, TRUEBRIT, CAMPESINO can tell them they got what they deserved for their arrogance.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 04:48 PM

720 BEFUDDLED: As I said before you're still befuddled. Now which is it. Refer to your post of
September 24, 11:37 AM. I am signing off for good. You must be a Kerry fan. FLIP FLOP, FLIP FLOP, FLIP FLOP. Hey guy, you asked me to name a war. I did. Please don't run and hide. I can tell by your writing that you are a descent man. One worth saving. Just BEFUDDLED:

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 04:57 PM

721 Hey BQUYY you America hating piss ant. Where do you get off interperting what I say. To sit with your head up your butt and say this is not a them vs us situation is pure stupidity. It is a we vs them thing. Ask the islamic terrorists and their supporters. They'll tell you. Remember 9/11. Who was dancing in the streets? The terrorists? Hell no. They were dead. The members of that gutter religion were the ones doing the dancing. Even Arafat thought it so bad he had his goons go around and collect the videos taken of the poor, gentle Palestinians dancing to the murder of 3000 innocents. Get your head out of your ass and wake up. If the rest of Canada is like you they will attack you first. Savages always attack to weakest first. My mission is to make my country aware of the danger. They hate America and its allies because we see the writing on the wall. The Greyrooster has never hit 1st in his life. But I always hit back. That's probably why I've never had to fight the same guy twice. Don't you mealy mouthed idiots see the big picture. If America goes, you go. If America pulls back out they will attack you next. All non muslim nations and people are on the list. It's dictated by the religion. Islamic nuts hate the United States and its allies because we are brave enough and wise to stand up.
Wake up Damn it.

Posted by: GREYROOSTER at September 24, 2004 05:25 PM

722 Wow PAUL your post was heavy. Quran 9:11 huh! Hope some muslims read it. Since they believe everything in their book. As our brave Aussie allies say. Good on you mate.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 05:37 PM

723 my heart and soul goes out to the family of eugene armstrong and to those still held hostage.these terrorists believe they are utterly in the right to pursue the goals they have and that by committing the acts they have they will achieve them.they do not hesitate in committing the crimes they commit because,it seems, they believe they have god on there side(to quote a phrase)they are not blinkered by any form of morality,they know only the cold hard truths drummed into them by there masters.unfortunately there appears a parallel here with much of our own ways of thinking and until eventually discussion begins we are likely to see more of these images of much as i would have once agreed that we should nuke iraq,i cant help but think that like n.ireland,until peace talks begin nothing but death of the innocent will be achieved.

Posted by: staffy at September 24, 2004 06:05 PM

724 Another reminder for the french lover (today) AUNTIEDOM. You idiots like to bring up Viet Nam. Who started the crap and ran out. The FRENCH you dingbat. Remember it was called French Indo China. The French did their usual run away thing and the US and its allies had to pick up the pieces. I was with the 26th Marines (hoohah) at Que Son. We didn't run and we never lost. Neither did my brothers at Da Nang. Holding the commies was important. We made them use up resources they would have used in other areas. Did we lose? Bullshit! There was once over 30 communist nations. Now there is only 5. Can any of you mealy mouthed meatheads name them? Someday, present day Russia will be one of our best allies in the fight against Islam. You watch and see. Was it worth the fight. You bet. Is the fight in the middle east worth it. You bet.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 06:09 PM

725 Here's one for you light weights who don't think we had reason to kick Iraq's ass. It is known that Saddam Hussein the leader of Iraq attempted to asassinate then President of the United States George Bush senior. This was when president Bush was visiting Kuwait. Remember Kuwait, invaded, women raped, men killed, etc: etc: by the Iraqi peoples army. Poor Iraqis I feel so sorry for them.
My point is this. When one country attempts to kill the elected leader of another country that in itself is reason for war.
We had just reason to invade and punish the Iraqis because they attempted to kill our elected leader. They started it. We did not. My father died in WW2. A pilot in the Army Air Corp.
But if he were alive today and someone attempted to kill him I would go after the bastard. If George Bush senior was my dad I would do just what George Jr. did. Get the bastard. God bless George Jr. for his courage. If the Iraqi plan to kill our leader would have succeeded no country's leader would have been safe. Think about it. We did the right and neccessary thing. We just didn't do enough. But we are fixing to.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 06:39 PM

726 Who needs help with whipping up on a bunch of weak hearted, America hating chickens. Tomorrow I'm fishing the Red Fish Tour in New Orleans. I guess the chickens will come home to roost while the Roosters away. However, this rooster will be back.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 06:54 PM

727 Rooster

You seem to be a little confused. When did Iraq attempt to kill your elected leader? I believe it was the other way round.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 24, 2004 07:39 PM

728 Poor NayNay, I feel so sorry for you, I pray that God will help you find conviction, it is not about Christians or any religion , it is what you believe in your heart, and I truely believe God's word has always presented the same story no matter how it is or was written. What do you think happens after death? It is Heaven or Hell, let me guess you believe in reincarnation??? maybe you will get lucky and come back as a proud American!!! Good for you Paul on your biblical facts, very interesting. I knew about four of them being in that area but not the others. I don't claim to be a bible scholar nor will I ever be naynay, but I do know everything fits in place, you need to read revelation and get you a help book to go with it,,,very interesting in comparison to todays events in the world. How can you compare though shalt not kill, with Jesus as the ultimate sacrafice who died for our sins. If you can't understand the difference I feel sorry for you.
by the way I love Christmas,and I feel sorry for Mr armstrong who will not see another one, may he rest in God's hands

Posted by: madarmywife at September 24, 2004 08:52 PM

729 Good for you Rooster!!! I agree totally but don't anyone get rallied up, I am not trying to be any kind of scholar!!!!!! I wanted to get back to Mr. Armstrong, I read a couple things about him, He was planning on writing a book about his adventures, He has been working in different war zones such as Bosnia helping fix the mess left for several years, he has a wife in Thailand where he planned to retire soon. I can bet you there will be a book and movie about this man, When I first watched the video, anxiety came over me, I was shocked, scared, and I couldn't sleep, I felt sick and scared that someone could easily or a terrorist could easily pick and choose in our country who they wanted to behead or torture to death. I was so afraid and still am, I had to come back and read and read and talk about it, I looked at the video again or made myself, I realized this man was a fighter, he didn't give up, he was not crying in weakness, he didn't want to die, he wanted to fight and he amazingly fought until the very seperation. Somehow this made me feel better, I even had rusty delete my first two entrys, I was afraid the terrorist would read them and get my email and come after my children and me while my husband was serving in Iraq. I realize that is why our government doesn't let things like this show on tv, it would cause panic and insecurity in so many lives and also boost the terrorist. I also remember watching when 9-11 happened, I will always remember the one man I saw up close fixing to jump from the building, this was before those shots were banned from television within minutes of the first building getting hit. I know Mr Armstrong's image will stick with me the same as that other innocent man the terrorist killed. It is one thing to watch movies with violence and death, but we know in our heart those aren't real, I know there are so many that need to see this video to wake them up as I am woke up, these horrible things are going on all around us and we Americans do take things for-granted, always making excuses or choosing not to look, our country as a whole needs to wake up and support eachother,as does the whole world in the fight against terrorism..........Who ever said this sight sounds like a bunch of therapy for a married couple, well it is therapy for me....Don't think I spelt that right.....thanks for listening...Pray my husband who is in south Baghdad will be safe..God Bless

Posted by: madarmywife at September 24, 2004 09:25 PM

730 See I knew COOGARUK was a shallow minded simpleton that didn't know what he's talking about. I even told him when incident happened to jog his stupid mind and he still does'nt know. Give up asshole. You just told on yourself.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 10:05 PM

731 Just to help the peabrained idiot COUGARUK the attempt on George Bush Sr. was on April 14, 1993. The Kuwait goverment arrested 17 terrorist in the plot. Many of them confessed that they worked for the IIS (Iraqi Intelligence Service). They recovered the explosives packed in a landcruiser and traced them to the Iraqis. Subsequent investigation revealed the Saddam Hussein himself masterminded the plot. Now cougaruk show us some more to your ignorance.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 10:25 PM

732 You know what mad army wife, resurection and reincarnation are the same thing,read what incarnation means isnt that what jesus did on his third day.....And if you wish to celebrate christmas that is your choice and lie to your children about satan claus that is your problem. Anyways i do not want to talk about religion with you. This site is for the poor people who have lost there lives.

Posted by: naynay at September 24, 2004 11:18 PM

733 To MADARMYWIFE: Keep the faith, Keep the faith. Slowly, so slowly people are waking up. The fact that lovely people like you have fears for their families is why we will soon put an end to this. Everyday brave men are getting sick of these animals. When we are angry enough we will put a stop to it. My wonderful son is over there to. He is my fishing buddy and best friend. I'm scared for him, but he's not scared. He wants to fight the bad guys. He wants to end it so people like you don't have to fear anymore. Payback is coming to Islam for all the trouble and pain they have caused the civilized world. It's coming. When it does I won't dance in the streets. I'll merely say its a shame it had to come to this.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 11:39 PM

734 NAYNAY: You Christian hating piece of shit. You have no reason to attack this women. I know your type. Probably another piece of immigrant crap with his dirty laundry on his head. Just stay up there and don't come down here. NAYNAY TO NAYNAY.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 24, 2004 11:52 PM

735 there is a difference...we are reborn after death into a new body, but not as a cow or another person...
but I have found interest in reincarnation and I have read a lot of stories people claim to have where they have had experiences,
but I would rather go to Heaven than back to this earth with all its hatred that is for sure..

My children don't believe in Santa Clause but they do Satan,,,,I found that odd you don't believe in the bible but you do Satan,,,,isn't he a main character out of there somewhere??? We use Christmas as a time to remember the birth of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ...and yes I know according to the scholars he was not born in the don't go there...atleast we acknowledge him and celebrate his birth....don't ever bring my children into any conversation by the way.................if you don't want to respond just ignor me,,,that is easy enough..I am sorry if I offended you, I just can't help myself, Jesus loves you and I hope you will believe that. I have to talk about God and hope that Mr. Armstrong has found his peace with him...God Bless the Armstrong Family and America!!!!!

This is for SKOURGE the real one not the french fake....wish I had been there to help you defend our country against those creeps,,,,can you believe that guy from Germany, I mean look at the holocaust,,,give me a break!!! GOOD FOR YOU

Posted by: madarmywife at September 25, 2004 12:05 AM

736 The comforting feeling that comes across me when I see this shocking staged murder of an innocent man is that 'what goes around come around'. They can look forward to worse than what they have dished out here.

Posted by: Jason at September 25, 2004 12:27 AM

I truely appreciate your response and support, I will keep your son in my prayers, I guess that is why we are so mad, we have a loved one on the front lines so this maddness hits close to home. I have so many pictures my husband has taken while flying over Iraq in a blackhawk, in his pictures I see several young boys who have to be under 20 looking out the open door over the land. You know they have to be scared out of their wits....but they never show it, that could be anyone of them or my husband there in Mr. Armstrongs place and that scares me to death, My husband has been in Germany, Bosnia, Korea, for most of the past 6 years and this is his second year in Iraq. He still has 9 years left to retire and I know most will be spent over there, it is hard to accept, he watches his children grow up on the video cam. And yes he cries, behind closed doors, they all do, that is not arrogant, God Bless America


Posted by: madarmywife at September 25, 2004 12:38 AM

738 This act really pisses Army and Marines off.
They will find them sooner or later,then the terror will be in there heads. FIND EM AND NUKEM.
MUSLIM faith is to be a thing of the past.

Posted by: Rick ARCHER at September 25, 2004 12:42 AM

739 "Hey 'naynay' you talk about using one's brain,just a suggestion, but you really need to 'brush up' your English grammer."

Paul, a helpful hint; if you're going to jab at someone for their GRAMMAR (notice spelling), make sure your own isn't just as bad.

Also, you would want to say "brush up ON your English grammar."

I'm looking out for you.

Posted by: The Hex at September 25, 2004 01:11 AM

740 im only 15 and the images i saw are discustingi dont know what kind of people do that also the end picture is sick who holds up a head after its been cut off who even does that to people who are already dead id feel sorry if that happend to me its so hard to think how ferral that is

all my sympathy goes out to his FAMILY and FRIENDS and also people who have to witness this

Posted by: Rhianna at September 25, 2004 02:43 AM


Posted by: naynay at September 25, 2004 03:16 AM

742 i spent a year of my life in iraq and alot of my friends didnt get to come back home with all of ones who say we sould not be in iraq or that war solves nothing.youve not just spit in my have just told every familymember that has lost someone they loved that thier life was in vein.and the price they payed was for nothing you might as well have pissed on thier graves. brian b. rusty sophia cindy madarmywife greyrooster you guys are the best GOD BLESS US ALL.

Posted by: grunt at September 25, 2004 04:21 AM

743 While not from a military basis, there is still more violence in the US of A than there is in Iraq. The war zone is fought on our streets and in our homes everyday. Murder's and kidnappings abound as we watch Cnn and Foxnews for the latest over there. Why not take a step back and look in the mirror. Look in the ghetto's of America and the similarities will astound you.
All this war has done is take the fight to their front door instead of ours. It is not the decisions of a single man that will make the biggest difference. It is the advisors and those appointed by them that will make the determination of where we will go next.
What worries me is not the individuals that understand the dangers of working in such a place as Iraq right now and choose to be there still, but the ever creeping notion that history will repeat itself and we will end up just like the Roman Empire.

Posted by: cgarrett at September 25, 2004 06:23 AM

744 In response to 'Hex'have you anything intresting to give to the debate on this page? Come on, give us an indepth insight of your views.

Posted by: paul at September 25, 2004 06:52 AM

745 this is sick and disugustung im am sadden act the fact that a human can do this to another human and still sleep at night.. i turly feel for the the families involed in this sad and disturbing situation... all i want to do is cry and pray for the ppl protecting me and my family out there riskin their live and heads for us...
god have mercy on all of us
lord knows we need it

Posted by: drifter at September 25, 2004 07:09 AM

746 So greyrooster

The current war is for an act committed 11 years ago on a PAST elected leader?

I stand corrected LOL

Keep trying, one day you might find a justification for the ILLEGAL invasion of Iraq... NOT

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 07:37 AM

747 On viewing Nasa's web site, I would also like to be up there with the 'Mars rover's Spirit and Opportunity', as opposed to here on Earth, where religion is destroying the human race. Viewing these images at the top of this page, reminds me of how primitive we are. I've heard that religion is the 'glue' that keep's us together, I would suggest it does the opposite, perhaps science can exspose religion as a farce, hence the 'rover's'on Mars. But I'm afraid I will not see this in my life-time. Are we doomed because of religion?

Posted by: paul at September 25, 2004 07:42 AM

748 "Oil is an international commodity. It's sold on the market by a biding process. All countries buy it the same way. We haven't taken oil from anyone. We buy it. Same as all nations. What a bunch of idiots. We pay Iraq and all nations for oil they sell us. It goes to the nation that sells it to international companies like BP the largest in the world. Anyone know what the B stands for"

Well, first of all the B stands for BRITISH, of course!

But ask yourself this: Who sets the price of this coveted commodity? And what if Iraq suddenly decided to increase the cost of oil, for instance to pay for the cost of rebuilding the damage caused by and since the illegal invasion? America would be okay with that, would it?Time for you to get real! Of course America has it all worked out (that'd be a novelty) : No doubt the vast majority of rebuilding contracts are destined to be awarded to American (and dare I say it, British) firms - the very nations that caused the damage in the first place.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 07:47 AM

749 p.s. Are you suggesting that the USA should act as middle man for the resale of all the oil in the world?

Hmmmm, I have an idea...

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 07:51 AM

A sadistic strategy of kidnappers using technology to torture.

Barbarism is bad enough. When combined with sadism it becomes unbearable. This has been a week of torture for Kenneth Bigley personally, his family, Tony Blair and the wider country. The same is true of others held hostage in Iraq, their loved ones and their countries. This is also,alas,precisely what the kidnappers want. Through seizing a few,they believe they can torment and intimidate the many. They have ruthlessly exploited their power to end the life of Mr Bigley at any moment they choose. Having brutally and publicly murdered two American victims in swift succession, they decided to make the world wait for the fate of their last hostage.
The past week will have prompted many conflicting instincts on Britain. No one can fail to be moved by the plight of the Bigley family, or fail to understand their urgent desire to see anything done that might yet prevent his killing. Most people will, nevertheless, recognise the position that the Goverment has taken and accept that to reward such savage behaviour would be to encourage it. It is a moral dilemma created by immoral terrorists.
This is a week that should also have made certain matters clearer. The conflict in Iraq has never commanded a consensus here or in the wider international theatre. It should be obvious now, however, that irrespective of past arguments neither Britain nor the United States can afford to abandon Iraq to the likes of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. He and his associates were attacking the intrests of the civilsed world long before Saddam Hussein lost power in Bagdhad. Iraq has become their chosen battlefield. It is ours too. The notion that if coalition troops left Iraq, al-Zarqawi and his ilk would disappear is simply implausible. They are part of a broader struggle.
Honourable people can disagree about the rights and wrongs of regime change. There should be a shared ethical conviction that those who snatch people of the streets and sever their heads to shock and terrify are not engaged in polotics by other means. They have to be confronted and their capacity to inflict such harm ended.
It is also evident, though, that these are sophisticated as well as vile operators. They are orchestrating events to impose the maximum political damage and create as much confusion as possible. Beheadings have been timed to coincide both with diplomacy of Iyad Allawi, the interim Prime Minister of Iraq, and also with the US election campaign. In this calculated strategy of manipulation, people and politics are merely props.
A central feature of the strategy is the use of videos issued to television stations and scenes recorded for display on websites. If there is more moral clarity about the nature of the terrorists in Iraq, then the debate about what should be shown is awkward.
Arabic television stations, most of which appear to be happy to act as propagandists for extremists, rarely attempt to put the kidnappings in any kind of moral or broader political context.
Should a message that a terrified captive is forced to send to his loved ones be censored? Does this change when it is an appeal aimed at a polotician? At what point does reporting the facts become voyeurism? The questions are numerous, but one answer is clear. We must decide according to our principles and not dance to the depraved tunes of the terrorist.

Posted by: paul at September 25, 2004 10:18 AM

751 I think everyone in the free world should take a good hard look at this. Including Mr. President, this is what the USA is up against. These bastards would do this to anyone anytime anywhere if they are continually given the oppourtunity we need to end these bastards NOW pull the troops back and NUKE THEM TILL THEY GLOW!

Posted by: Strum at September 25, 2004 11:13 AM

752 COUGARUK: You dunderheaded limey: OPEC sets the price of oil in the middle east and other areas. I guess you never heard of them either.
Why should lucrative building contracts being be given to nations too cowardly and too cheap to help destroy the monster Saddam. If there is any monetary gain, it should go to those that spent their lives and money bring down Saddam. Illegal invasion! You got to be kidding. What is a legal invasion? Who sets that standard. The UN? Or every European nation who has invaded the rest of the world for centuries? Was the falklands an illegal invasion? You pityful jerk.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2004 12:11 PM

753 RODRI: Your problem is that you are ashamed because your country ran away from the fight. If America was that cowardly I would be ashamed to. I guess that if the Iraqis were unharmed Philipinos or South American Indians Spain not have run. Hail to the the brave Spanish. We found out how brave you are at Manila and in Cuba. Weren't you guys pro Hitler? Again a lot of help you were. Now that your nation has ran away you wish to downgrade my President who is obviously braver that yours.
Or is the real reason that Spain was conquered and ruled by the muslims for 400 years. Let me see!!! Wasn't that before birth control? Looks like the possibility of birds of a feather sticking together. Don't like it? Then don't attack my country or my President.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2004 12:37 PM

754 Rodri: Clinton did not almost get impeached because he was human. Clinton almost was impeached because in defiled the office we elected to to represent. Namely, getting BJ's from young girls in the White House. Also for lying to the American Public. Remember:( I did not have sex with that young lady, Miss Lewinski, never, never, not the first time). A week later he confessed. That's not being human. That's being an adulterer, a liar and a piece of shit. Secondly, we all know it wasn't the 1st time. America was shamed by him. He fouled our highest office with his lying and cheating. If you look up to him your standards are very low.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2004 12:53 PM

755 Yeah, Argentina's invasion of the Falkland Islands (a British protectorate territory) was illegal.

But the UK soon sorted it. Sent a task force all around the world (with UN sanction). Military action took about six weeks from beginning to end if I recall correctly. We even managed to sink the sole survivor of Pearl Harbour in the process.

How much longer you reckon before Iraq is finally sorted?

p.s. I don't think the USA is an OPEC member, so my original question regarding oil prices still stands. In fact I think I'll add another one: Where would USA be if it couldnt afford its oil? Oooh, I fear it might wage a war and just take it... nah, surely not LOL

(There, and I managed all that without resorting to personal insults)

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 01:01 PM

756 REFER COMMENTS BY JAN: 1st. McVeigh, Manson and such were not killing people in the name of God. 2nd: No one was making them into heros.
3rd: No one in this country was hiding and supporting them.
4. Your analogy sucks.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 25, 2004 01:08 PM

757 Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1991 was also illegal, and it was quite just for the US and its allies to go liberate that country.

Hmmm, wouldn't it have been a wonderful idea to have got rid of Saddam there and then? Unfortunately, there was no UN mandate for that. That mandate was still not forthcoming in 2003, so the US (and its puppet Britain - makes me feel so ashamed) decided to go it alone.

So yes, the invasion of Iraq was definitely ILLEGAL. Not only that, but instead of making the world a safer place, it has just served to de-stabilise the Middle East, and has probably set back world peace for - wouldn't even like to hazard a guess - many decades at least.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 01:12 PM

758 Hey Rusty, why was my post removed and why was I unable to post anymore?

I said nothing that wasn't any worse than what anyone else has said.

I am sick, heartbroken and outraged. Not only did I see the Armstrong video, but I watched Hensley's as well. Then, I had to see the others: Berg's Johnston's, and that poor Korean hostage who begged and pleaded for his life minutes before he got it.

I'll say it again: Bush, get us the hell OUT of there, troops and civilians working there, nuke it and Afghanistan. Why spend all that time looking for Osama???? Nuke the countries and get it over with.


Posted by: Laura at September 25, 2004 01:16 PM

759 I see my post was cut off! Maybe you guys are having trouble with the website???

I haven't heard anything about the British hostage? Are they prolonging his death just to make him suffer the most out of all of them?

Poor man! God rest the souls of all the hostages killed.

Those are some sick motherfuckers. I will never get over the images and screams on these videos.

God bless them with eternal peace.


Posted by: Laura at September 25, 2004 01:20 PM

760 Yeah, cos like nuking a couple of countries is gonna solve everything, ain't it.

These terrorists have cells operating all around the world, including Britain and the US.

Any other brilliant ideas?

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 01:22 PM

761 My guess is that the British hostage is already dead. However, if he isn't it'll be no thanks to the USA who overruled the Iraqi Government it installed.

As it happens, I agree that terrorists should NOT be negotiated with at any cost.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 01:25 PM


How depressing it is that some people cannot see any difference between the French resistance to Nazi occupation and terrorists now operating in Iraq.
The Nazis overthrew a democratic goverment and installed a tyranny; the Resistance fought to restore democracy. The Anglo-American invasion overthrew a tyranny and is now working to establish an Iraqi democracy. The terrorists-many from other countries fearful of such a prospect-are actively seeking to prevent that. Do people really believe that the lives of the Iraqi people would be better if the terrorists were to win?

Posted by: paul at September 25, 2004 02:03 PM

763 I don't agree with Bush invading Iraq, hence, all the beheadings and hostage takeovers since then, but really, maybe if we get rid of these "cellgroup's" homelands, they make think twice about starting any shit again.

As long as we sit back and do nothing, these horrible atrocities will continue.

So, smartass, what would YOU do?!

Posted by: Laura at September 25, 2004 03:06 PM

764 The atrocities did not start, nor are continuing, because you sat back and did nothing.

Nor will ridding the world of the terrorist's homelands rid the world of terrorism.

My idea would be to... Oops too late, you Americans have already totally fucked up!

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 03:21 PM

765 COOqarUK, Thankyou for your last response. What would your response be to my last comment,(CAPTIVE AUDIENCE?)

Posted by: paul at September 25, 2004 04:02 PM

766 I broadly agree with it.

As for voyeurism, yes I feel that the watching of these videos probably is. I myself have only watched one... that of the beheading of Nick Berg. That was enough for me. As for censorship, I believe that maybe these videos shouldn't be widely shown or hosted on sites such as this, the clincher for me being the fact that it plays into the terrorists hands in as much as the wider the audience the more publicity for their cause. However, the majority of Americans' reactions seem to be in the 'nuke 'em' brigade and so in that sense I feel that the terrorists are failing, if only because seeing what they are capable of just 'rallies the troops' and strengthens the West's resolve.

And in any case, these organisations host their own websites and so even if the world media introduced some sort of voluntary censorship, not only would they perhaps be seen to be failing in their duty to report world events, but it would be almost impossible to keep these sights entirely away from the public eye. Further, although I am actually against censorship per se, the broadcasting of these poor souls pleading for their lives can only benefit the terrorists, who probably have no intentention whatsoever to spare them in any case.

I feel it also has to be said at this stage, and this view is not going to be very popular, but those being taken hostage were in Iraq of their own free will, knowing of the dangers, unlike the allied troops who have been losing their lives by the 100s, in the absence of such a blaze of publicity

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 04:22 PM

767 Wow, sense prevails at last!

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 05:10 PM

768 My 'sense prevails' comment was intended for TJ. I wish to disassociate it from the writer 'common sense'

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 05:14 PM

769 "Your comment could not be submitted due to questionable content: YAHOO.CO^^"

What the fuck is that about?!

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 05:16 PM

770 9/11 proved that the USA is just as vulnerable as anyone else and liable to be at the mercy of world terrorists on its home soil, wherever and whenever the terrorists wish to strike next.

The war in Iraq hasn't changed that situation one jot. But it has lowered America's standing around the world, with fewer and fewer people looking up to it, but more and more seeing it as a super-power that has just got too big for its boots. And we all know what happened to the last one of those.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 05:21 PM

771 You have to admit that Americans ARE partly responsible. Look at the widely publicized photos of the US soldiers humiliating those Iraqi prisoners? IMHO, that was the last straw, and the heads started to really roll after that.

On the other hand, we didn't behead those prisoners either. We may have subjected them to posing naked and doing other things, but we didn't slaughter them like pigs.

It's not the Iraqi people as a whole doing this, it's the terroristic cell groups, as in Afghanistan. We are fighting a whole different enemy we cannot see, so does Bush think by catching the head guys (Saddam, Osama) that the war will be over? Not hardly. They are figureheads to a large mass of terrorists. Others will carry out what they've started.

Then again, look at Hitler. He knew he was losing the war, and committed suicide. There's hope yet! But, I would like to see Osama captured by our own hands and dealt with.

I would also like to see these masked murderers of Armstrong, Hensley, Johnston, Berg, and all the others, captured and slaughtered the same way their victims were (hardly likely, I know).

Okay for the sake of argument, if we all cooled down enough to think this through, and abolished our "nuke em" mentalities, how DO we end this terrorism?

With people being recruited every day, and some of them in the US, what are we to do? Pull out troops and say the hell with it? WHAT is the answer then?

Posted by: Laura at September 25, 2004 05:23 PM

772 I've no idea. And my last response was a cop out. It's good to see someone at last may be open to reason though.

There is no easy answer to this. I don't think the world will EVER be totally cleaned from terrorism. There will always be fanatics or those who feel so strongly oppressed that they have to take the law into their own hands.

Those are the sad facts of life. Another is that war NEVER solved anything, not even the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima. It may haved knocked the Axis powers into shape at the time, but ask yourself this: How come there are still third-world countries who aren't so shit scared of the USA so as not to carry on with their cause?

Posted by: C00garUK at September 25, 2004 05:31 PM

773 so this is what democracy calls freedom of speech.
poor america, u r just dying slaves of ur "elected" god.

Posted by: rodri at September 25, 2004 06:04 PM

774 laura not

Posted by: rodri at September 25, 2004 06:06 PM


Posted by: Lauren at September 25, 2004 06:42 PM

776 Glad everyone on Fox News think Bush is a God. He had no business going into Iraq. Our soldiers have to clean up the mess he made just to avenge his father.
Peg S.

Posted by: peg sartori at September 25, 2004 07:46 PM

777 god bless you eugene armstrong... you did not die in vain. after forty years of living this man may have been made an example for the rights of the muslims...(if thats correct)- but they are simply sick people that will have their just desserts... all things in time... THEY WILL MEET THEIR ALLAH. and when it comes to be, they will experience the same fear Mr. Armstrong went through. My sincerest condolences to the families of Mr. Armstrong and the other remaining victims. Unfortunately we live in a sick world with the vile and scum that are these people. But they will meet their days. The most important thing to remember is that no matter how brutal the man left us... he is within peace now. and noone can hurt him anymore.

Posted by: scott at September 25, 2004 07:50 PM

778 I guess after all thats said and done these wonderful people who were made an example to die like dogs WILL ONLY SHINE extremely brightly in the eyes of all of us americans- hopefully long read about and learned about in our future history books. and also including the less popular reportings of our great troops who got screwed into fighting a seemingly hopeless war... They will be the Icons and the Gods that took Allah down when they got there. I CANT WAIT TO SEE IT!!!!!!

Posted by: scott at September 25, 2004 08:18 PM

779 If i only had one wish... it would to have been with any one of these super wonderful people during the time of their deaths to hold their hand and die with them and let them know that what were doing will make a difference. but these muslim idiots will have their day... and well be holding the knife.

Posted by: scott drost at September 25, 2004 08:36 PM

780 well it looks like greyrooster and Paul have been picked on while I was away....

and naynay your comment didn't even make any sense? You are grasping at straws,,,I suppose you think we came from monkeys too, but of course they had to have a creator you are right,,,,,,,,who cares what nationality anyone is or who there mother was..we all came from Adam and Eve and that wasn't a banana tree that got us kicked out of the garden of Eden which was in Iraq ironically....maybe God hasn't changed his mind about anyone getting to live in that area...ha ha By the way, the Egyptions are on our side remember?? and yes you are right about moses mother....

GRUNT we are very proud of you and thank you for your courage and fight for freedom,,,,

I will have to go back and read over all the insults to us Americans so I can post my comment of course....I know one thing can you say 9-11 hasn't changed anything and our fight against terrorism, it has changed us all inside and out, opened our eyes to the reality THAT no one is safe anywhere. My husband is flying over Baghdad while we are all sitting here in our compfy homes chatting away is your freedom he fights for too, Iraq was the best place to start , those people lived in terror everyday, Suddam funded and controlled many terrorist cells, those people are living in fear, but they want a good life and someone to help them,,,that is why my husband is there so their children can grow up in peace and have a chance at life, not be starved, made to join terrorist groups or watch their mother raped and tortured etc etc...but then again you will probably say they don't know any better so why change things, change them because they will get bigger and bigger and it will be our familys who are starving or being tortured.... BY THE WAY AMERICA HASN'T HAD ANY MORE 9-11'S HAS IT??

It has been several days sinse I watched the video of MR. Armstrong and the others, and leaving comments on here has been the only thing to help me get through it, so you guys will just have to read em or pass em up.....

Posted by: MADARMYWIFE at September 25, 2004 10:42 PM

781 I now see why there are so many good things said about bush on this page. They eddit out all the true stuff. You people deserve eachother anyway.

Posted by: Johnathan D Douglas at September 25, 2004 11:13 PM

what are you doing , looking up history on the web and making up crap to go with it....or are you just trying to sound intelligent? The more I read the more I am thinking what is he talking about? Mr Greyrooster is right about the Gulf War....and yes our president I am sure as well as most of us wanted to get the mad man then...and I am sure the resentment was there from George Bush to make up for his father. For the Iraq situation..we sure gave them enough time to get rid of any WMD's while the UN was trying to make up its mind....about three months....The reason we never got an ok, which we sure tried hard to get first, is because there are people like you who would rather hide on the couch and let someone else take care of them...If you think our country and all the many others in Iraq fighting beside us, not just Britain, have made mistakes , yes we have, but we didn't hide and we care enough about the future of our next generation, there have always been wars, but what if no one ever fought back,,,,out of fear...we would all be controlled by fear and a terrorist such as the mad man found in a hole....I can gurantee you that..........Lets hope Jesus comes back soon,,,,cleans house and burns the trash!!!!

Hey Nay Nay where do you get this racist crap, where did that come from? Are you a Black Canadian? Just curious, sounds like you have some painful issues, I would be glad to help you if I can. It sounds like those of you putting down us Americans are racist

The oil thing that cracks me up....soon we will all be driving on soybeans anyway....and most Americans where I come from would just saddle up the old horse and start some new Coal Mines...
I am a mad army wife...too many years alone I guess...

God Bless you Mr. ARmstong and MR. Hensley,,,Still keeping hope for our Britain, has anyone heard anything? I know Britain sent Muslim leaders to try and help him.

Posted by: madarmywife at September 25, 2004 11:17 PM

783 I am with the "bleeding heart" democrats and fellow Bush haters! I think I, too, should bury my head in the sand! I think it is far better to have any terrorists left to plan and attack and kill Americans on US soil, such as the destruction of the twin towers. I think, like the Democratic twits, that we should ignore the facts and, instead, bash Bush. After all, he is a terrible person - in recognizing we are in a fight, here or there, he has decided to have it there. Sure, he believes there will be American lives lost - either mothers, brothers, sisters, and fathers here or soldiers there. He is really terrible for bringing the fight to a country with oil fields because fellow democrates know to believe he is only after oil requires everyone to discount the fact that terrorists actually hit us first. But, what is really great is that all Democrats remember how terrorists previously attacked the WTC and that Clinton did nothing - a noble deed. No wonder I am so enthrawled with the democrats. Frankly, it is no wonder at all why some of the anti-Bush folks posting here are not confused at all. They have tuned out all facts that would allow understanding Bush's declaration that we cannot give in to terrorism. When I hear folks say that none of the beheading would have taken place if it were not for Bush, it makes me want to puke - that there are some folks who could believe that. You know... If you had a family and were surprised by a home invasion by some ganster neanderthals,and if they said we will behead a family member if you don't do what they say, would you give in no matter what knowing you don't know whether to believe them or not, but that if you did they might escape unharmed to do it again to another family, over and over again? Or, would you say - we must make a stand - we must stop this action, so it cannot continue? Wake up my fellow knucklehead democrats! We are in a war - whether you want to believe a simple-minded Kerry is better as a president because he supports anything against what Bush stands for, or not - you must agree that to ignore action and hope for the best is not intelligent at all. We MUST do something about this cancer, terrorism MUST be stopped, no matter what our mechanism for cutting out the cancer - it must be cut out and no amount of hoping it will go away is appropriate. It is no wonder like my fellow democrats know, that only 7 out of 10 americans have graduated high school and only 3 of 10 can capture a thought on paper. I am sure that all the uneducated Democrats know what they are doing when they try to stop the weeding out of terrorism and clearly understand that we should get rid of the rich, powerful, Republicans who manage to build America creating business that creates jobs. I am sure that it would be a far better decision to follow the uneducated , poor, out of work, tv watching democrats because they must know that their rich Rap singers, movie/tv stars, and other public figures who spend money on clothes and cars and boats and yachts and parties - would be much more informed. I am sure I am doing the right thing by following Kerry and his supporters - NOT!

Sheesh - let's end the madness. The Republicans are the ONLY ones trying. Support our president and please don'y vote for a bumpkin who'll say anything to get a vote. Please.

Posted by: Unbelievable-twits at September 26, 2004 03:06 AM

784 None of this would be happening if you didn't keep poking your nose in other peoples countries. The US seems to think it has the ability to wipe out all terrorists... it will never happen. When one is killed there is 100 more waiting to take his / her place. The best course of action would be to not have any enemies. While it is a terrible thing that has happened what did you expect ?

Posted by: Abdul Bin Said at September 26, 2004 03:30 AM

785 COOgarUK You seem to be a reasonably intelligent person but then you have to destroy that perception by generalizing about the US and the American people. You are no better than the bone heads who think that every Muslim is a terrorist. You want to re-fight the American Revolution and belittle America but don't seem to want to think about the terrible things done for hundreds of years by the European colonial powers (especially, Great Britain) You are quick to criticize, but have no solutions. In one breath you imply that America is wrong to fight terrorism (Iraq is full of them now). Yet the next you say not to negotiate with terrorists. What other choice is there? (Not a rhetorical question)

I will agree with your premise that the US should have not gone to Iraq without more actual proof that it was required. I will even agree that George Bush and Dick Cheney (probably)had reasons other than WMD in mind when they sent troops into Iraq. I can't read minds and they don't don't consult with me on intelligence issues. Personally I was OK with kicking the Taliban out of Afghanistan and going for Usama bin Laden and from there any other true and known threats to our security.

The facts are that America and the rest of the industrialized world, including the UK, is dependent on oil and without it our societies would quickly meet their demise. Let me say that I am not in favor of nuking the Middle East ot any part of it. But the Middle east oil is a strategic interest for the whole world, not just America. If American society fails so does most of the rest of the world because the global economy is too interconnected today. We are all dependent on eachother. For example, without the American dollars going to Saudi Arabia their econmomy would collapse and so would the UK's and all or most of Europe's. Now that might sound arrogant but I am not trying to be arrogant, just honest.

If you live in an industrialized country you have to see that point I am making. America like, it or not, is the world's leader in technology and research and development. I am not belittling any country that produces technology, I am just saying as that most major technological inventions, such as the computer and the internet that we are using to communicate on are American inventions. So when you "spit" on America, realize how much better your own life is because of America. Just consider that.

Since we have the situation that we have in Iraq, I don't see where we have any choice but to support the fine young men and women who are there. I would rather that they weren't there but the fact is that they are there, regardless of whether we agreed with the decision of our governments to send them. We have to do the best we can route these butchers. They need to be killed. My hope is that not one more innocent will be killed in Iraq, but that's not very realistic is it? My advice is that all non-military westerners not go to Iraq and that those there leave as quickly as possible.

My guess is that Bush will increase troop levels in Iraq within a couple of months, probably just after the November elections, if he is re-elected and go in to the most hostile areas in mass force to rid them of the non-Iraqi Arabs (predominantly Saudi, Syrian, Jordanian, and possibly Palestinian??) who have infiltrated into the rebel strongholds.

COOgar why don't you you give us all a break. We are all not "dumb-ass" Americans with our noses up George Bush's ass. I love my country and while we might not have all of the history and culture of Great Britain, let's not forget our history is intertwined. WE have mutual interests and we always will. You don't have to like that and suspect that you probably don't. Like it or not, the UK loses if America loses, as does France, Germany and the rest of Europe.

Posted by: Rick at September 26, 2004 03:37 AM

786 It is a fact you americans are in no position to judge badly the actions of these Islamic soldiers .
After all it was you who came into thier house with your tanks and rockets .
How many innocents have died at the hand of the US today ? How many Palestinians have been displaced by the Zionists who are working for the yankee dollar ?
You bleat on like a flock of misguided sheep over a few thousand on sep 11 then glory in the fact you have murdered thousands more in afganistan and Iraq . Women and children . Innocents . You wonder why the world hates you and your low life double standards .
You will NEVER be overcome Islam , you neither have the strength or the moral courage , you and you wagging dogs tail the British .

Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the last of the prophets... (Quran,

Posted by: ali at September 26, 2004 03:41 AM

787 I really like those of you who seem to be smart. Actually, I appreciate you all.

Abdul - On the surface you seem to consider what's going on. I am unsure, though.

Of course, everybody should know that all Americans are not party to the decisions that are made leading to "the poking our noses" into other countries. Similarly, you must know that there are many Americans who do not hold all Afganistan and Iraqi people responsible for terrorism.

If so, then despite knucklehead posters in this forum who imply one group or anther are all in on what is going on - there are those of us who are smart enough to recognize some folks are just mental midgets. We must ignore them.

This brings the remaining folks (Those with something on our shoulders besides hatracks)to consider what is left... The fact is there are some really ignorant individuals who spend every waking hour devising ways to kill other humans (Iraqi, American, others...). It is a problem and if intelligent people can stop pointing out flaws with logic, personality differences, cultural differences, and religions - we should all be able to see some really wrong problems!

I am sorry Bush and his minions didn't dot the i's and cross the t's a bit better. I am sorry we didn't uncover weapons of mass destruction (it would have justified better what we are doing), but can't we all agree that there exists a cancer of un-human behavior going on? Can't we all agree that regardless of how we got into Iraq, that what we found is bad?

I think all other considerations aside (because they are really only distractions and technicalities), the world of intelligent humans recognize a hideously flawed (cancer-like) way of thinking, which leads to many evil behaviours, including be-headings. Therefore, let's agree something MUST be done.

So, who seems to be doing something? (Anything less seems ignorant - why I will not be voting for Kerry.) Only Bush and his allies in the "War on Terror" seem to be comitted to doing anything.

I do not have to agree on how it started. I do not have to agree on who's at fault, nor why it continues. I do have to acknowledge there is activity going on that needs to stop. It is not for the USA to leave Iraq. (I often think why help a country who does not want to help itself, but each time, I always remember that there are many Iraqi's who are not responsible.) Just like all americans are not responsible for slavery - it was a bunch of knuckleheads from many generations ago - we cannot justify anything these terrorists do. Period. We cannot say it is Bush's fault - IT IS THEIR FAULT! The bad guys with the masks and hoods. Clear and simple.

Wake up! This issue does not need to be any more complex than this - there are some ignorant folks commiting haneous crimes and any country in the world would rid themselves of such vermin - don't believe for a second that all Iraqi's are guilty - so don't talk about nuking anybody.

We MUST appeal to right and wrong - what some of these bad guys are doing is unacceptable and there should be no more discussion about presidents, religions, countries, governments, or people - all that is needed is to acknowledge it should stop!

Bush is trying to do that with only his allies for help. It is a shame, some countries have given in to the terrorists in order to save one man here or there from being beheaded. It is a price that we must pay to do what is right. I am glad to be a supporter of Bush and hope you all will too.

Regards to all of you who are talking, because if we are talking, then we are moving in the right direction (even if it doesn't always seem so).

Posted by: unbelievable-twits at September 26, 2004 04:08 AM

788 Unbelievable-twits wrote:

"I think, like the Democratic twits, that we should ignore the facts and, instead, bash Bush.

Wake up my fellow knucklehead democrats!

am sure that it would be a far better decision to follow the uneducated , poor, out of work, tv watching democrats because they must know that their rich Rap singers, movie/tv stars, and other public figures who spend money on clothes and cars and boats and yachts and parties - would be much more informed. I am sure I am doing the right thing by following Kerry and his supporters - NOT!"

Unbelievable-Twits, Why do you lump all Democrats into the same crowd as the above descriptions. My guess is that there are plenty of Republicans that would fall into the categories you list. The Democratic and Republican parties are pretty much the same these days. Are the candiadtes debating real issues? Up until John Kerry went on the defensive after his war record was chewed on by the president's cronies, the debate was on gay marriage, and other such nonsense. Now that Bush's policies are being seen as pretty screwed up and not well thought out, He is wrapping himself in the flag and basically using the same argument that he did to lead us all into the this mess, "If you're not with me then you're against me" (and you're not a good American).

I work very hard, I am relatively well educated. I am not soft on terrorism. I love my country but I despise George Bush. I wear the "scarlet L" with pride and honor. I don't believe in trickle down economics because I have never seen it work yet. It is a way for the really rich Republicans to get even richer. Huge tax cuts for the wealthy in a time of all-time record budget deficits doesn't make sense to me. Maybe youu can explain that to me. It seems to me Bush's cronies are being let off the hook and the middle income people are being screwed again by the Republicans.

Anyhow, you vote for George if that is your choice, democracy is wonderful isn't it? Just remember that my vote will cancel yours. But it won't matter anyway because Kerry doesn't have a chance anyway, because the Bush dynasty play their tricks again...Now we have paperless electronic voting machines, I wonder who owns the companies that make them???

Posted by: Rick at September 26, 2004 04:09 AM


I would just like to clarify something, YOU the british are terrorists, you have jumped into lands all over the world to claim them for yourselves and in doing so, you murdered that lands inhabitants, stole their land and started the oppression of the remainder of it's people.

Might I just point out the fact that Ireland was once a peaceful country until your government decided it wasn't right that a Catholic was on your throne (racist or what?) so you decided (not being big enough to do it yourselves) to get a Dutch king to kill your king (treason as well?)

When you invaded my country, you MURDERED my people, STOLE our lands and started your tyranny that the Irish had to stand up against and have been fighting against til the present day.

The IRA gained independance for the Republic of Ireland but vowed to continue the fight until ALL of Ireland was free from the murdering scum of britain. You call the IRA terrorists, let me remind you of some of the acts commited by the british forces on innocent people of Ireland...BLOODY SUNDAY..when british troops opened fire killing innocent civil rights marchers.... Pat Finucane, a solicitor (lawyer) murdered by loyalist terrorists with the aid of security forces amongst many other acts of collaboration between the british government, british army, british police force and loyalist terrorists.

Let me add by saying that there are more Loyalist (protestant) terrorist groups in Ireland than Republican (Real Irish, as opposed to murdering settlers).
There would be no need for the IRA if you hadn't invaded my country in the first place!!!!!

Kathy said earlier that the reason you got to stay in Ireland was that America was doing you a favor by staying out of it..I concur, but if America was as bad as you say by poking their noses into other peoples affairs....they should have done to you what they did to the Nazis and blown you out of the water for your Nazi-like invasion and oppression af Ireland.


Posted by: Irish/American at September 26, 2004 04:45 AM

790 Rick - to be fair, you are right. I appologize for lumping all democrats together. You are an exception, perhaps. Regardless, I know all democrats are not ignorant mindless americans, but the leader they are to follow and one who will need all their support, is not proving to be much of a man who stands commited towards supporting our men and women in Iraq. Instead, he attempts to humiliate Bush by bashing his connection to the Guard? Sheesh, I guess all other past and current members will not be voting for Kerry?

You are right in that both Republican and Democratic parties have similarities - politics. During election campaigns, is it fair that the means justify the end? Every man for himself?

If you were rich, would you not like tax-breaks? The problem with your logic and that of others, thinking Bush's tax breaks only help the rich is that the rich represent a very small percentage in our country. So, how is it that there are enough votes to get Bush elected on such a campaign push? The answer is that there are a whole lot of Americans who are not rich, but who do not believe at face value what they are told by Democrats.

The key is you and your family cannot and will not EVER "save enough coupons" to get ahead. No one can. The ONLY way to prosper and get ahead is to invest! If so, if we believe investing in our country is better than not investing... why not allow those able to invest to invest? If instead, a Democrat is elected and he instead of providing tax breaks, increases our taxes so he can expand the freebie and social welfare programs, how will that EVER allow investment? It won't. PERIOD.

Now, take this logic back to the topic of this forum and I believe while you and I may agree Bush is not the end all, be all... that he is trying to do something. And, by all indications I see, he is moving in the right directions despite adversity along the way by naysayers.

ALI - I am perplexed by the innocent killing of your country-men (sorry if I am taking poetic license incorrectly) and mine, too. However, I am sure you cannot agree with the beheading of innocents as a humanitarian answer to this dilemna. If you and I and the rest of the world can put aside the unfairness of the innocent killings, can we not agree these tragic beheadings are wrong, no matter what?

I only wish the allied troops going door to door knew better when they were crossing the line with foreign cultures (such as , taking shoes off vrsus carrying mud and debris into people's houses and disrespecting them, as an example). However, when the "bad guys" hide in among these innocent people, what else should the troops who are trying to weed out terrorism do?

There really is no easy answer, but we (the world) cannot give up!

Posted by: unbelieveable-twits at September 26, 2004 04:46 AM

791 Oh dear, if there is one thing worse than an Irish-American, it is an Irish-American who has no clue what they are talking about.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 05:11 AM

792 madarmywife

If it wasn't for the fact that you say you have a husband, I would have suspected that you are still in school.

You need to grow up a bit and get your facts straight before posting on here.

And personal insults just confirm your immaturity. They get you nowhere, and you will note that I do not need to resort to using them.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 05:14 AM

793 COOgar:

This Irish/American is 38 years old and was born in Ireland and has suffered first hand the oppression of the brit invaders, I only moved here 1 year ago so I do know what I am talking about.....I am not anything like you typical brain dead brits that get all of their knowledge from the propaganda tabloids of the Sun and Daily Star.
I myself had british soldeirs threaten to shoot me because I was, to quote "a dirty fenian bastard"
I did have the opportunity to meet a few "Intelligent" brits, though not very often, that did know about what REALLY goes on in my country, you are obviously not in that category!

Now go away, I do not want to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person!

Posted by: Irish/American at September 26, 2004 05:21 AM

794 Rick

Thank you for crediting me with some intelligence. You appear to be a bright person yourself.

It is also rassuring to read you admitting some of your country's failures, and noting the importance of oil.

I do not hate all Americans any more than thinking that all Muslims are terrorists (The UK has a large Muslim population, the majority of whom abhore what is happening with regard to the hostages).

Let me make another thing perfectly clear. I wholeheartedly support the Allied troops in Iraq (save the fact that I totally disown those who resort to torture).

My problem with America is that it appears to have become no better than the 'school bully' on a scale so grand that eventually it will spell catastrophe for the human race.

America is a free country, with many achievements to be rightly proud of. But it is time for this arrogance and the beief that it is always right and that its actions are justified in the interests of world security as opposed to mainly its own self-interest to STOP before it is too late.

Neither am I interestd in getting involved in American party-politics. As far as I am concerened they have no relevance to what is going on in Iraq and the wider world. Whether the invasion of Iraq was engineered by Republicans or Democrats it would still be ILLEGAL.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 05:27 AM

795 "Now go away, I do not want to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person!"

No, you would need wits for that!

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 05:32 AM

796 COOgar:

If you think the invasion of Iraq is illegal....what are you doing occupying Ireland?

Posted by: Irish/American at September 26, 2004 05:32 AM

797 I will not debate with someone who thinks the IRA are not terrorists.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 05:36 AM

798 I would just like to say what I have pretty much said on every forum and got an awesome response for: If I had a chance to take back ALL the beheadings of this war and all the hurt for my neck, I would do it ina heartbeat. I really do think that all these men did die for this country and most of all they Died as Americans. No matter how many heads they remove, there not going to get rid of the american respect. Thats what those blindfolded fucks dont get.

Screw those assholes. They will get it sooner or later. And we will make them suffer.

Posted by: NormaJeanAZ at September 26, 2004 06:06 AM

799 As opposed to britain being clean and free from sin?

As I said before, the IRA would not exist if not for the "Illegal invasion" of Ireland which I might add was not to rid the country of evil but for territorial gain.

The european court of human rights has on more than one occasion found britain guilty of murder of Irish but britains "arrogance" was to ignore it.

England is an "arrogant" country as well as a "school yard bully", just ask the scots and Irish to name just a couple of countries that you have invaded for personal gain.
The only thing is, you didnt expect the peaceful Irish farmers to stand up to the "British Empire Bullies" and kick ass for many years until you gave part of it back in 1916.

During that uprising, the members captured in the O'Connell street post office were taken out the back and shot in the head, with one exception, a man name Eamon De Valera, I wonder why wasn't he shot in the head like the others?....well, it was because he was an American citizen. Your government knew that America was doing you a favor by turning a blind eye to your murdering oppressive ways in Ireland and didn't want to incur Americas wrath and a severe butt kicking by killing one of their own!!!

Posted by: Irish/American at September 26, 2004 06:08 AM

800 Nuke britain and all of europe. The EU will never work, you'll fight over currency and other shit forever. Fuck all europeans. Fuck the middle east and fuck asia.

Posted by: john at September 26, 2004 06:16 AM

801 Obviously too much testosterone

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 06:21 AM

802 COOgar:

Like I stated before about an unarmed person, your replies, unlike what you have said in many of your earlier posting have been personal not to mention opinion based instead of factual based, a sure sign of lack of knowledge in the subjects you are debating not to mention the typical british arrogance.

not very clever, might I remind you that you (unless you are native american) are probably a descendant of europe. One other point to make, 74 of your Presidents have been Irish or of Irish descent. Ireland is part of europe and have had no grievances with any country in the world except the one that decided to invade us...England.
The Irish people are great supporters of the amreican people so I feel pretty insulted by that statement of yours.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 26, 2004 06:34 AM

803 I will not debate with someone who thinks the IRA are not terrorists..

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 06:36 AM

804 I think it is the case I stated earlier...lack of wits and knowledge.

Scenario: Irish man come of the toilet and says, "o what a great crap", the englishman comes off and says "thats a load of my mind"

You like most english say one thing yet do another. All of europe believes that the english are the bullies and arrogants of the world....just take a look at your soccer hooligans.

If you ever gain some intelligence, then you can comment, like that will ever happen.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 26, 2004 06:49 AM

805 nuke the fucking lot of em and put salamander in with em when u do it

Posted by: ray at September 26, 2004 06:51 AM

806 I will not debate with someone who thinks the IRA are not terrorists.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 06:54 AM

807 COOgar:

You have not debated with anyone, you have just come in here and insulted people with your brain dead, uneducated opinions.

Maybe the rest of the people in here can get on with their debates without the ramblings of an anti american, anti irish, anti french, anti german, anti scottish..wait a minute, there isnt another country in the world you do like, funny that you call the americans arrogant.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 26, 2004 07:05 AM


Posted by: Peter at September 26, 2004 08:14 AM

809 I will not debate with someone who thinks the IRA are not terrorists.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 08:32 AM

810 hello irish american

if you were origionally refering to my post as being british you are wrong . Iam Jordanian who lives in england
You seem to be proud of America and hate the british wagging dogs tail .....this is odd as the british are the only friends america has left ...except the zionists !!!
the british are hated yes this is true and if it wasnt for america they would surley be the most hated country in the world .
Ireland is ok doesnt harm anyone but no one cares about your history of oppression except the irish , its so boring .
Iam Jordanian not english .

Posted by: ali at September 26, 2004 08:49 AM

811 When you ask any muslim where all this stems from it goes right back to Palistine and Israel. More importantly Americas Illegal stance on the killing and opression that goes on over there. America seems to think that noone should have nuclear weapons in the Middle East, yet the Israelis have nuclear weapons and won't admit how many... America needs to have a clear set of principles and stick to them, regardless of the situation. If there is to be no weapons of mass distruction then they should start disarming. If they want their captives to be treated with respect then they should extend the same courtesy instead of doing things like Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo Bay, both contradict the Geneva Convention. I am anti war, and have been from the start, this war isn't justified, if we went in to free the people then we should be in Sudan, Korea etc... We all know that we wouldn't be in Iraq if their main export was Broccoli.

Posted by: Abdul Bin Said at September 26, 2004 08:49 AM


Few of us can begin to comprehend the agonies that Kenneth Bigley and his family have been through in recent days. For Mr Bigley the torture of knowing his inhuman kidnappers have already killed his two fellow hostages in the most brutal way must be truly unbearable. For his family, it has been grim knowledge that at any moment the news could break on an Islamic extremist website thathe has suffered the same fate. Their dignity and their efforts have been extraordinary. Last weekend Mr Bigley was the blurred image of a blindfolded and terrified man. Now, thanks to his family, he has become a national figure, almost known to us personally. The UK has been hanging on his fate; the barbaric seizing and murdering of hostages no longer something that happens to srangers. It is visited on real people.
Hostage-taking has been used by the fanatics prowling war-torn Iraq for six months. It would be wrong to see Mr Bigley's experience either as more harrowing than those of the 80 other foreign hostages seized, or as a turning point. But it has brought it home. Nobody believes it is possible to negotiate with these terrorists. To do that would provide an incentive for more kidnappings and more murders. That has been the UK's goverment's firm stance and no serious person has questioned it. The proper response to these outrages is to stiffen our determination to deal with extremism.
One positive development that has emerged from the suffering has been the response of Muslims in Britain. Before Mr Bigley's ordeal began, many may have believed there was quiet syspathy within that community for the actions of extremists. Nobody can believe that now. The Muslim Council of Britain yesterday condemned "utterly and unconditionally" the "evil act" of the hostage takers. It has sent a team to Iraq to try to obtain Mr Bigley's release.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his like are not the face of Islam but vicious and cowardly murderers. The more that message gets home, the more we can be sure that the aim of extremists-to drive a wedge between Islam and the West-will fail.

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 11:13 AM

813 Hi My fellow Americans and UK Brothers:

I am sick and tired of watching how this ‘’Dirty Rag Headed Motherfuckers’’ behead innocent and good people. You know something; I miss the good old days when we used to nuke ‘’Sons of the Bitches’’ out of the face of the Earth. That country deserves a massive nuclear attack and be erased from the face of the Planet. Killing it’s like masturbation for them. How the fuck are you going to cut somebody else’s head off and be at the same time singing; ‘’God is Good, God is Good’’ I mean, what the fuck it’s going on with this Savages? Fuck the Geneva Convention and lets annihilate this ‘’Savages Beasts’’ once and for all. If they give me the opportunity to press the red bottom and send this people to hell, it would be the happiest day of My life! These people has been killing themselves since the ‘’Jesus Christ Era’’, for Us to be there for a couple or more years to come, We are not going to change 2,000 years of ‘’Savage and Brutal History’’. The more We stay, the more brutal and savage this ‘’Demons from Hell’’ are going to get towards our fellow Americans, lets bring our boys back home and let Us leave these ungrateful ‘’Sons of the Bitches’’ build their country by themselves. I am saying this because the same innocent people We are sending to help, are the same people how are getting killed by this race of ‘’Demons from Hell’’. Every time I see a photo of one of this ‘’Dirty Ass Rag Headed Motherfuckers’’, all I see is Evil and Evil must be eliminated once and for all. I don’t care when we bomb the shit out of them and innocent people and children dies you know why? Because those same little children (Fuckers!) are going to be the future assassins as soon as they grow up.

I am not afraid to say all of this you know why? Because I have the balls and reinforcement to back it up so however doesn’t like it, I suggest you to change your American citizenship and get the fuck out of our country and be with your so killing motivated brothers. Feel free to E-Mail Me, I’ll be glad to start a mature conversation at anytime!



Posted by: Ivan Pastoriza at September 26, 2004 11:14 AM

814 Lets Nuke These Rag Headed Motherfuckers Once And For All!

I am sick and tired of watching how this ‘’Dirty Rag Headed Motherfuckers’’ behead innocent and good people. You know something; I miss the good old days when we used to nuke ‘’Sons of the Bitches’’ out of the face of the Earth. That country deserves a massive nuclear attack and be erased from the face of the Planet. Killing it’s like masturbation for them. How the fuck are you going to cut somebody else’s head off and be at the same time singing; ‘’God is Good, God is Good’’ I mean, what the fuck it’s going on with this Savages? Fuck the Geneva Convention and lets annihilate this ‘’Savages Beasts’’ once and for all. If they give me the opportunity to press the red bottom and send this people to hell, it would be the happiest day of My life! These people has been killing themselves since the ‘’Jesus Christ Era’’, for Us to be there for a couple or more years to come, We are not going to change 2,000 years of ‘’Savage and Brutal History’’. The more We stay, the more brutal and savage this ‘’Demons from Hell’’ are going to get towards our fellow Americans, lets bring our boys back home and let Us leave these ungrateful ‘’Sons of the Bitches’’ build their country by themselves. I am saying this because the same innocent people We are sending to help, are the same people how are getting killed by this race of ‘’Demons from Hell’’. Every time I see a photo of one of this ‘’Dirty Ass Rag Headed Motherfuckers’’, all I see is Evil and Evil must be eliminated once and for all. I don’t care when we bomb the shit out of them and innocent people and children dies you know why? Because those same little children (Fuckers!) are going to be the future assassins as soon as they grow up.

I am not afraid to say all of this you know why? Because I have the balls and reinforcement to back it up so however doesn’t like it, I suggest you to change your American citizenship and get the fuck out of our country and be with your so killing motivated brothers. Feel free to E-Mail Me, I’ll be glad to start a mature conversation at anytime!



Posted by: Ivan at September 26, 2004 11:25 AM

815 Only have few minutes. Will be back. Just a message for ALI and rest of the muslim shit. The mere fact that you moved to England proves the west is a better place to live. ABDUL BIN SAID if the Israeli people were sworn to destroy the Arabs, then I would help the Arabs. But we both know that's not the case. Your gutter religion is the problem. It will destroy your people. Soon the free world will realize this and put an end to it. Quran 9-11. You think the Eagle has already landed? Are you in for a suprise. All this gobbly gook your speaking is that you are a silly, cruel, backward and barbaric people on a self distructive path. Your anti-war because your people aren't brave enough to fight. Instead you fight people who are tied up with knifes to their throats and then say its because of a government they have no control of. All your going to achieve in going back to cooking on camel dung fires because that's what you deserve. The people of Korea and the Sudan had nothing to do with killing 3000 innocent people at the world trade center. But the stinking Islamic people did.

Posted by: Greyrooster at September 26, 2004 11:26 AM

816 Ali

I'm not sure in in your last post you express a hatred for the British or not. If so, why choose to live in England? For the education? Social welfare? I was just wondering.

As for the Irish harming no-one, have you never heard of the IRA. It is a terrorist group which has killed, maimed, or otherwise injured 100s of innocent people, including Irish.

I hate no-one, particularly Americans or the Irish, however I do take exception to some of the atrocities that they (or their terrorist groups) commit.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 11:29 AM

817 Most (not all, I have an individual mind) of my opinions are based upon fact.

Further, some on here seem in need of a reminder that the USA and Britain have probably funded more international terrorism than they have eradicated.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 11:31 AM

818 The British Ambassador to Rome, Sir Ivor Roberts, caused a stir a few days ago when he suggested that if al-Qaeda were allowed to vote in November's US election, George Bush would be their candidate of choice. I think the ambassador misunderstands the nature of al-Qaeda. They are not the subtle. They couldn't care less whether Bush or Kerry is in the White House. To them, one American infidel is the same as another. They want to kill them all.

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 11:35 AM

819 Tally-ho, I say, Too much puffed chest bravado... The Irish have been screwed,PERIOD. When you are small and Goliath by comparison comes to invade, what else can the IRA do but form as they have and fight the way they do? Especially if they know Goliath has the good ol' USA behemoth on their side? I fault them not. Are they terrorists? Sure, how can anyone deny otherwise, but what do they have for defense if not the way they do? Do I agree with senseless killing (like our Brit friend) of course not - it is almost as bad as the Iraqi beheadings.

What is pitiful is that Ali does not live in Jordan, yet he is judgemental of the life he is provided, under the very protection of the USA's influence. Why would you minimize our Irish friend's history as boring? Because it is not as prehistoric and full of history as the middle-east? Hmmm...

And, Abdul... with your Muslim background, holding on to your past history is part of the problem, I think. By contrast, it seems that if someone was to blame the USA's current policy on the fact we once had slavery in this country, it would be pitifully wrong, yet when you dismiss Ireland's history as boring or your history as full (by comparison), then all that is happening is the propagation of that history as a means to an end that should be left behind, so we can move forward.

The world does not need to be reminded of the past or have generation upon generation cling on to revenge as a plan for living in the future (as seems the case in Iraq and elsewhere).

Let there be no doubt, America IS the sleeping Giant and they do bumble into countries with their hidden agendas and when they do, the people of those countries are affected negatively. But, to hate all Americans is as stupid as any Americans hating all Iraqi's and certainly no different then Brits and the Irish or anyone else.

So, when you bring up the American's "illegal" stance on killing... like you, living in another country, I would never hold you responsible for the government of the place you now call home.

I am insulted by you or anyone else holding me accountable for my government. And, I am insulted that any dumb-ass terrorists would hold some poor foreigner responsible, too - to the point of beheading him? Stupid, ignorant, cancer-like. We (The world) MUST root out this type of mentality and followers of this thinking. If it takes an illegal invasion by any means, maybe, Bush is not perfect but by comparison, I like knowing someone is doing something and that there are people willing to fight to root out this evil.

To get to the end of this may prove quite a bit uglier if allowed to continue at the current pace. Why not agree insanity must stop and we need to focus on the root cause rather than "shooting the messengers?" If the terrorists feel a need to hold all Americans accountable, it is wrong, so why not have all terrorists stealthily snipe Bush and Blair and Arafat and Sharon, etc, etc, etc. If they all started disappearing, wouldn't that be a better means to an end?

Maybe it's because they are not as smart as they like to think they are and the terrorists just like to kill? If they didn't have killing and plans on how to kill on their mind, what else would they do? They haven't taken any time to build parks to hang in because that would be planning for the future and everyone knows there is no point to plan for the future when every terrorist's dream is to die as soon as possible for Allah.

Posted by: unbelieveable_twits at September 26, 2004 11:36 AM

820 COOqarUK,Thankyou again for your response on 'CAPTIVE AUDIENCE.' Do you have any responses on my last two comments?

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 11:49 AM

821 A very worthy post, unbelieveable twits.

At last someone who agrees with the US illegal invasion of Iraq, but who is able to attempt to defend it by intelligent reasoning. I also take it that you're not a member of the 'nuke em all' brigade? If so, the World actually may have a chance.

However, if were you referring to me as the Brit who agrees with the senseless killing, on what basis? As nothing could be further from the truth.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 11:51 AM

822 Paul

Regarding you 'IEAQ'S TRAGEDY HITS HOME' post, tend to go along with your observations. As for who would be the fanatics' choice for US President, I don't care as I have no interest myself in American politics or internal affairs. However I agree that all Americans are seen as infidels by these fanatics, which is why sadly America will never be able to consider itself insulated from the problem and many more of its innocent citizens will continue to be needlessly slaughtered. Of course I don't think that America should give in to these or any other terrorist demands. I just don't happen to agree that it's current policy - including the illegal invasion of Iraq - has or will in the long term help to further its cause.

I have already admitted that I have no idea myself how to solve the issue. I have been castigated for that but hey whatever, I am being honest. I know what NOT to do, maybe that's a start.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 26, 2004 12:01 PM

823 It is all his fault he should have left Iraq after the first two beheadings of Nick and Pearl.
Don't the Americans realize no one is going to save you. Get out while you still have a chance.

Posted by: sonya at September 26, 2004 12:08 PM

824 COOqarUK. Thankyou, everybody has a viewpoint. I look forward to your responses to my future comments.

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 12:15 PM

825 Rusty,

Why is the message "questionable content" - keep coming up?

I have not been able to post in days. Please help. I would like to rejoin the discussions!!!

Posted by: Laura at September 26, 2004 01:34 PM

826 Ah, I see my posts have returned. First question: Does anyone know what's going on with Bigley? Unreliable sources say he was beheaded Saturday, yet I haven't seen anything about it on CNN or Fox News.

As a matter of fact, I haven't heard ANYthing about him at all.

Does anyone think the media was told to play it down, so as not to jeopardize any attempts to save him?

Gee, it's too damned bad no one went out on a limb for Armstrong and Hensley...:(((((

I see on other forums (and it's making me madder than hell) that people are saying that these guys actually deserved their fate!!!

Can u guys believe this shit?????? It's like that movie "Airplane!", where the commentator goes, "they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting themselves into, I say let em crash!"

Goddamn what is wrong with people? I agree that they should've bailed when they were told to get the hell out of there by family and friends.

Why would anyone risk it after what happened to Pearl, Berg and Johnston??? You wouldn't have had to tell ME twice to get my ass outta there!

As for the coming elections, even though I don't give two shits for either of them, I see all Kerry's doing is going around telling everyone what Bush didn't do right. He doesn't seem to be saying what HE'D do once he's elected...he's too busy bashing Bush.

Thank you, have a nice day. I love this forum.

Posted by: Laura at September 26, 2004 01:40 PM

827 "To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us. [It would start] an urban guerrilla war and plunge that part of the world into even greater instability." Author: George Bush Snr in his book, A World Transformed, published two years before his son became President.

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 03:22 PM

828 Abdul Bin Said wrote: When you ask any muslim where all this stems from it goes right back to Palistine and Israel. More importantly Americas Illegal stance on the killing and opression that goes on over there. America seems to think that noone should have nuclear weapons in the Middle East, yet the Israelis have nuclear weapons and won't admit how many... America needs to have a clear set of principles and stick to them, regardless of the situation. If there is to be no weapons of mass distruction then they should start disarming. If they want their captives to be treated with respect then they should extend the same courtesy instead of doing things like Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo Bay, both contradict the Geneva Convention. I am anti war, and have been from the start, this war isn't justified, if we went in to free the people then we should be in Sudan, Korea etc... We all know that we wouldn't be in Iraq if their main export was Broccoli.

Abdul-- I would not disagree the roots of the current conflicts in the Middle east stem from the Isreali-Palestinian conflict. While I might have some sympathy for the Palestinian cause. I would ask the question, What would you have the Isreali's do? It is easy to say they should leave. Where should they leave to? Why are they in Palestine to begin with?

The Anglo-American victors following WWII decided that the Jews should have a homeland. That was nearly 3 generations ago. These victors who decided the borders following the world war would probably not make the same decision today if they could see the turmoil it has caused in the world. We can't undo the last 60 years.

Why did they choose to give the Jews their own homeland? Because they had a lot of Jews with no place to go. Look at the history. No one wanted to accept the European Jews. The Americans did accept a few thousand as did a few other countries, the world basically abandoned the Jews. The Anglo-American victors put them in their historic homeland because they had no place else to go. The only problem with that is the Palestinian Arabs had long since moved into Palestine and made it their home.

The Arabs tried a couple of times, unsuccessfully to kick them out but still no one wanted the Jewish population in their country so the Americans gave them military support to defend themselves against the Middle East Arab nations. The Isrealis have done a superb job of defending themselves considering how vulnerable they actually are.

This has caused the Palestinians to suffer a heavy price there is no argument about that. That and other reasons (The installation of the shah of Iran, disregard for the conditions of refugees in camps, etc) has bred strong antiwestern contempt among the Arabs.

To me the issue is one of industrialized countries versus third world countries. Thge leadership of the industrialized world have not addressed issues that could have resolved this hatred of the West. The problem has grown to be one that now probably cannot be resoloved without major wars. There is too much distrust by the Arabs of Western governments. The West sees the Arabs as Barbaric and some Arabs like these that have committed these heinous acts on Westerners who come to help rebuild the infrastructure of Iraq, prove them right in the eyes of the West.

The Arabs will never be respected in the West now. 9-11 and subsequent terrorist acts has so polarized the West against the Arabs that there is a growing rumbling of "nuke 'em all." the Arabs cannot win against the West. They can terrorize, they can suicide bomb and they can fly planes into our buildings killing thousands of innocent people. They can even cut off the heads of captives. What that does is what you see here. It strenghthens the West's resolve and particularly American resolve.

I think Bush has made many mistakes in his war on terrorism. One thing was not staying in Afghanistan and getting all of the Taliban and Al Qaeda. I would have rather seen him send forces into Pakhistan to get them in the mountains before they could escape to come to Iraq. They are the real enemies, not the Iraqi people. I am glad that Saddam is no longer in power, but I don't see how that has greatly benefitted the Iraqi people so far. In the beginning the the Iraqis welcomed the Americans but that is long gone now, no matter what Bush wants to believe. He didn't plan to win the peace and get out like he said he was going to do. Now I hear estimates that American forces will have to be there from various sources for up to 10 years!

You wrote about disarming. I assume you mean decreasing American troop levels. That is difficult to do when these insurgents are shooting at you. I fthe insurgents want us out they should just quit shooting and bombing, let the Americans leave and them do whatever it is they want to do. As long as the oil is flowing, the Americans won't come back. Bush would love to pull out of there. He knows he stepped into a pile of shit, but he also wants the oil for the West.

As to the treatment of prisoners. I could not agree with you more. Bush Cheney Rumsfeld need to bee held accountable for the policies they put into place following 9-11. Telling untrained troops it is acceptable to use inhumane methods on suspects in custody is not acceptable. I have no illusions that some of these people knew important information that we need to be successful in the war against terrorism, but their are rules for a very good reason. It protects our troops as well as our enemies, NORMALLY. We are not in a conventional war, we are not dealing with a state army here. We are dealing with terrorists who fly into buildings and blow people up without regard to who is killed in the process. No one is acting in a way that is normally "acceptable" in a war. I can not condone the use of torture to obtain information I definitely think that cutting off people's heads is worse and I would look the other way if a person was tortured to prevent that from happening again under the current circumstances, say to capture Zarqawi and execute him. So I guess I am talking our both sides of my mouth, but we cannot allow this type of thing to continue if there is something we can do.

Posted by: Rick at September 26, 2004 03:29 PM

829 UNBELIEVEABLE TWITS: The last paragragh of your last post really struck home. It's what I have been trying to say. Only you say it much better.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 26, 2004 04:18 PM

830 Can you believe that 3 dollar bitch SONYA: I can't. It's the victims fault. You piece of trash.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 26, 2004 04:25 PM


IN The Secret Agent, Joseph Conrad's novel of anarchists in London a century ago, a terrorist mastermind dreams of 'a band of men, absolute in their resolve to discard all scruples, strong enough to give themselves frankly the name of destroyers, and free from...pity for anything on earth'. He would no doubt have approved of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. For though the 37-year old Jordanian-born militant's actions may seem psychotic, there is method to his madness.
To understand that method, we need first identify Zarqawi's intended audience. Islamic militant terrorism is primarily propaganda and not usually tied to specific political objectives.
Though frightening vital Western contractors out of Iraq and thus generating destabilising discontent by slowing reconstruction is useful, Zarqawi's primary goal is to communicate. His videos are clever, professional and laden with meanings that many in the West will miss entirely.
This is not surprising, for Zarqawi, like other Islamic militants, is not talking to us. Ken Bigley, Tony Blair, the British public and the 155,000 apparently impotent foreign troops in Iraq are unwitting actors in his carefully scripted drama. The audience is the world's 1.3 billion Muslims.
Aware that hacking people's heads off live on camera disgusts the vast majority of those he is addressing, Zarqawi first sets out to convince them that his actions are legitimate. So he picks one of the single most emotive issues in the Islamic world: the supposed imprisonment, and abuse, of Muslim women by non-Muslim men. Their release is not a demand, it is a justification.
The issue takes Zarqawi immediately into the realm of the myth. American jails don't actually contain thousands of such prisoners, but after Abu Ghraib most in the Middle East think they do. The incarceration of women also taps the mother lode of resentment underlying the appeal of radical Islam: the profound sense of humiliation, disenfranchisement and emasculation felt by hundreds of millions of young Muslim men faced with the apparent military, political and, increasingly, cultural dominance of the West. This is increased by a collective memory of the past glories of Islamic civilisation.
Zarqawi, those thuggish demeanour belies his talent for exploiting modern media, then starts to develop his themes. Again he appeals to the same basic belief: that the US is leading an aggressive attempt by the new 'Crusaders' to subordinate the Islamic world. Images of violent conflict, particularly the effects of suicide bombings and videoed last testaments of 'martyrs', stress the power of faith, the crucial commodity possessed by the 'mujahideen' and lacked by their enemy. Victims wear orange jump-suits, like prisoners at Guantanamo.
The climactic act-the execution-is a ritualised slaughter, reflecting myths about how the first warriors of Islam killed during 'raids on the path of God' more than 1,000 years ago. Militants actually kill with guns and bombs, not long knives. Zarqawi is dliberately trying to shock his audience. Moderates may be stunned by the brutality, but those with any sympathy for the radical Islamic agenda might well be impressed by how far Zarqawi is prepared to go. He is a man to whom the donations and the recruits should flow. He is Conrad's anarchist mastermind's perfect 'destroyer'. In fact, Zarqawi's brutality is so extreme one senses a half-baked hope that it will somehow provoke massive change through its sheer outrageousness.
Yet there is another key audience. Though in very broad terms committed to a similar agenda, Islamic militants, like Conrad's anarchists, are a quarrelsome bunch, riven by personal jealousies and ambition. A new generation of younger, less educated, less political operators now challenges senior leaders such as Osama bin Laden. Zarqawi, who grew up in a breezeblock house in a rough, poor city north of Jordan's capital, became involved in Islamic militancy in afghanistan in the late 1990s, at about the time that bin Laden started his 'al-Qaeda' project.
The younger man, far from being an 'affiliate', as the Americans say, has always resented the Saudi-born militant's pre-eminence and his wealthy upbringing. The executions, perhaps even by Zarqawi's own hand, are a strong challenge to a man who has, for 15 years, sent others out to fight and die and is confined to the mountains of eastern Afghanistan, far from the killing grounds of Falluja.
However, zarqawi does not share bin Laden's strategic intelligence. The Saudi's aim was to radicalise and mobilise the masses of the Middle East and he has been careful not to alienate his core constituency by attacking only targets symbolic of the West's might.
But, judging by the reaction of much of the Islamic world to this year's string of executions, Zarqawi has misjudged his audience. Only the most extreme seem to surpport his actions. Though numerous enough to do serious harm, they are vastly outnumbered by moderates. This offers hope of sort.

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 04:52 PM

832 Bush has history on his side. Of the 28 elections that have involved a sitting president in American history, the incumbent has won 18 times. You can't underestimate the bully pulpit of the White House.
On top of that, demographics are also helping him. Because of shifts in the American population since the last election, Kerry has to get more votes in the electoral college than Gore needed.

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 05:16 PM

833 A continuation of my very last comment....If Kerry wins the same states that Gore won, he would lose by 10 electoral college votes whereas Gore lost by only five. Mind you, there are a lot of states that deliver 10 or more votes. Florida being one of them.

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 05:22 PM

834 COOqarUK, Have you any views on my last comment's?

Posted by: paul at September 26, 2004 05:27 PM

Sticks and Stones my good man,,,Sticks and Stones,,,,and I didn't think you had a sense of humor???? You don't down grade people on here? Why don't you try talking like a regular person and stop looking up things to copy to make you try and sound like an intelligent person,,,,sounds like you spend your days reading history or war novels...fiction and non....I am not as smart as you..only a teacher with a masters in Education with a distinction in English....what kind of education to you have behind your belt by the way??? I am also a veteran, have you ever served your country?

Most of all this is not a grammer test and no one is applying to Harvard on here, these are real people and God bless the ones who were not fortunate enough to get a good education..maybe they had to work all their life, can't sit around and play school professor......I see people like you everyday, all book sense and no common sense...well fiction or non for you......

Personally I would have banned you from this message board when you made the comment we took over Iraq so our American Engineers could rebuild it.....Do you remember who this message board is for ???????????NOT YOU YOU HYPOCRITE...IT IS FOR MR. ARMSTRONG and I have not heard you say one good word about the man......have you looked up to see who he was or where he was from, or Mr. Hensley , what about your own Brit there????

Or was their life too simple to discuss,,,,,,,,,,I don't care what I spell wrong or how my words are not gramically correct, nor do I judge anyone else on here for that....that is not what this is about....
and it is not all about OIL..........
It is sad how people like you depend solely on someone else to take care of you. I come from a community with many Amish and mennonites, one thing they have taught me is how to take care of myself and my family when and if the government can't............why don't you read up on gardening or how to purify your own water..etc , maybe take some riding lessons...get off your computer and get some excercise,,,,,,but most of all stay away from the history books.........

leave us something exciting to read or atleast leave a good world for the ones who just lost their lives....God Bless the innocent who have lost their lives.....pity those of you who said the asked for it by being there....they were there to make it a better place...they didn't deserve what they got..........

Do you think Armstrong or anyone gives a damn about how intelligent any of you are?

look there you made me cuss,,,,,,,

Posted by: madarmywife at September 26, 2004 09:45 PM

836 Those sick mother fuckers should recieve the same punishment that they put this man through . actually they should be slowly tortured and over and over make them cocksuckers feel the pain for a few weeks . This is one of the sickest things I have seen in a long time. Makes you want to kill a iraqi . fuck them and allah

Posted by: Paul at September 26, 2004 10:21 PM

837 Those sick mother fuckers should recieve the same punishment that they put this man through . actually they should be slowly tortured and over and over make them cocksuckers feel the pain for a few weeks . This is one of the sickest things I have seen in a long time. Makes you want to kill a iraqi . fuck them and allah

Posted by: Paul at September 26, 2004 10:25 PM

838 MADARMYWIFE...........It seems to me that you have comments to my post , but you just are not reading what i have written......are you at all intellegent? Did i not say that there is a creator .and how many times .It is absurd to think we came from monkeys as they do not evolve right.You must be a rocket scientist.NOT.....If you really think about it with an open mind my lady you could see the contradictions all throughout the bible, do you need help with this? cause i can surely help you out if you are confuzzled...Do you also realize that your god of the bible murders allows rape and killing of children if you do not know this then do not preach to me i know the bible in side out thank you very much.And one more thing just to give you a run ok and you can fight me on the scriptures all you want cause maybe your not reading it to clear in the bible does it not say that it is a SHAME for a MAN to have LONG HAIR ? WELL ISNT IT FUNNY THAT YOUR JESUS DID HAVE LONG HAIR WOW .....1 more do you think that the scripture about eating your own dung and piss is sumthin you want to teach your child on a sunday..THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WIFEE YOU MIGHT AS WELL CELEBRATE HELLOWEEN CAUSE GOD LOVES SACRIFICES AND THE SWEET SMELL.And when you pray at the end of your prayer dont 4 get to thank AMEN THE GOD OF EGYPT.......I really think you should read it well.and by the way i am not a black canadian but isnt it funny that some africans are whiter than me and also that two white people can have a black baby i wonder how that is possible?

Posted by: naynay at September 27, 2004 12:20 AM

839 madarmywife

Your last post hardly warrants a reply, full of personal insults as it is.

Suffice to say, that if you have a distinction in English then you must have gained it in a country that doesn't speak the language.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 12:21 AM

840 Paul

Judging by YOUR last comments, we appear to have an impostor amongst us?

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 12:44 AM

841 MADARMYWIFE.........I was just wondering what your fav thing to collect is? Do you like art and pictures or maybe you enjoy something ceramic? But maybe your home is not decorated with anything cause you are a christian and god says do not make unto the ANY graven image that is in heaven earth or in the sea. Well i certaintly like to decorate and i am an artist so i guess im going to hell eh .Even though i am a good person and live right.

Posted by: naynay at September 27, 2004 12:53 AM

842 I just watched the video and it is the worst one by far. This is a pretty shitty world we live in!

Posted by: Soulkiss at September 27, 2004 01:39 AM

843 OH MY GOD!!! WHat the hell

Posted by: joey at September 27, 2004 03:38 AM

844 Yes COOqarUK, we do have an imposter. I wish to dissacotiate myself from the 'sick mother f*****' paragraph. I wish only to cast 'observations' and enjoy responses from others.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 06:27 AM

845 Would anybody agree or disagree with my comment 'ZARQAWI HAS METHOD IN HIS MADNESS?'

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 06:45 AM

A German phrase which could be considerd more appropriate than its English equivalent.
The present situation in Iraq might be best described using the German word Schlimmbesserung: the act of fouling things up in the process of trying to make them better. It is certainly more apt than an English word, such as victory.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 08:22 AM

The efforts of British Muslims to save Mr Bigley are welcome.

All must hope that the mission by two senior British Muslims to secure the release of Ken Bigley proves successful. It is, no doubt, a long shot. Mr Bigley's whereabouts are unknown. Those holding him, the hardline Tawhid wal Jihad group led by Abu Musab al Zarqawi, have already murdered two Americans and have issued demands, including the release of all women prisoners held by America and Britain, which I have mentioned in a previous post. The two envoys, Dr Daud Abdullah and Dr Musharraff Hussein, are unfamiliar with Iraq, have no obvious means of contacting the hostage-takers and are in no position to negotiate Mr Bigley's freedom. Furthermore, their humanitarian message of mercy and religious tolerance may well fall on deaf ears in a country where hostage-taking, fanaticism and terrorist violence have become all to routine.
That does not make the initiative by the Muslim Council of Britain any less timely and welcome. The council, an umbrella group representing most mainstream Muslim organisations in Britain, has become increasingly outspoken in urging British Muslims to oppose terrorism, reassert the true spiritual values of Islam anf face down the extremists who have hijacked Islam for political purposes. Six months ago the MCB urged British Muslims to denounce extremists in their midst and co-operate with the police in trying to prevent terrorism. Its stance was inevitably denounced by some Muslims as selling out to a state that they see as Islamophobic. But it earned the MCB the right to be taken seriously as a body acting in the responsible intrests of almost two million Britains who are Muslim.
Untill now, moderate Muslims have done far too little to distance themselves from the religous extremism that is an insult to Islam. What is important about the present initiative is the emphasis laid on the appeal for life of Mr Bigley as a fellow Britain.
British Muslims reject terrorism, but have often appeared ambiguous in their loyalties to, and identification with, the state in which they live.
Their opposition to the Iraq war and their support for radical causes overseas, either in Kashmir or Palestine, was combined with a willingness of a minority in the community to resort to nihilistic voilence. In these circumstances the moderates must take a clear stand.
The widespread Muslim condemnation of Mr Bigley's seizure is therefore encouraging, given the continuing resentment over Britain's role in the Iraq war. It makes clear that the MCB mission is spurred by a determination to reassert spiritual and humanitarian values over political activism. That in itself may give the mission greater credibility in Iraq. The MCB delegates have no bargaining power except the appeal to the teachings of Islam. They have, sensibly, kept their distance from the British Goverment and insist that they are trusting in the power of prayer. Attempting to save a fellow Britain to demonstrate the compassionate values of Islam is an important sign that self-indulgent barbarism of a few is an insult to humanity.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 09:17 AM


Posted by: Jacob at September 27, 2004 10:39 AM

849 The fact is we should not be there and we should never have been there. Anyone who believes the bullshit right-wing propaganda the Bush admin is dishing out is a sheep who blindly follows. Don't you see you are being manipulated into believing? This very video will incite more of you sheep to believe this war in Iraq is just and that Bush was right to attack a country unprovoked for trumped up bullshit facts. Bush should never have went against the UN and set the peace of the world back 30 years in doing so. What's the difference between Hitler invading Poland and the US invading Iraq? When you break it down to its bassist elements, nothing.

Sure these terrorists are assholes and I hate them just as much as you do. All of them. I wish we had a magic terrorist button that just killed them all, but thats as big of a juvenile fantasy as it sounds. Bush can't fight terrorism like that. He's made us more enemies. More of the muslim world hates us even more than they did before 911 and they are waiting in line to fill the shoes of the very few we have managed to apprehend or kill.

I know not a thing I say will make you believe the fact that the Bush family is one step from the anti-christ, but they are evil people and have killed plenty to meet their agenda... probably some more brutally than poor Eugene. So go on being a sheep and blindly follow your evil shepherd and believe all the BS coming out of Fox News and other Republican controlled media. Bah bah bah. I liked the world a lot better when all we had to worry about were blow jobs in the oval office.

Posted by: mark at September 27, 2004 11:36 AM






Posted by: MADARMYWIFE at September 27, 2004 11:58 AM


Posted by: MADARMYWIFE at September 27, 2004 12:09 PM

852 You think we had enemy's before! we have created a generation of muslim's who live to taste the blood of americans. Why? Because S. Hussein posed a serious threat to the us. You must be kidding, we walked through iraq like a piece of paper in the 1st gulf war they have no ICBM's. They never have and they never will. I am an american, my family is Irish, we helped build this country, and I would gladly push the button to end this conflict once and for all. But, We THe People should not of sent our sons and daughters to further the Economic Imperilaism we already practice around the world.
The Bush administration may have not directly lied about WMD's in iraq, but they manipulated the truth, so that the common man would see the facts out of contex. Hans Blix himself said " It seems to be impossible to know something exsist, but not know where it is, or have ever seen it". That's what christians call faith. This Iraq war has set in motion the eventuall global conflict that will be the final crusade.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 12:58 PM

853 ISLAM.

Non-Muslim liberals generally believe that we should extend respect and understanding toeards the teachings and values of Islam. But what should they make of those teachings-about women, about homosexuality, about infidels and about freedom of theological, philosophical and literary debate-that appear to be in direct conflict with liberal values? Should they stand up robustly for the values of secular tolerance? Should they extend to the imans the same cynicism with which they habitually approach the Cristian clergy? Or should they seek a "third way" that somehow reconciles permissive secularism with proscriptive religious doctrine?
Your answer will probably depend on the extent to which you see religion as, ultimately, a force for good or a force for evil. When making your mind up, however, it is worth bearing in mind two things.
First: the struggle between tolerance an d intolerance goes on within Islam as well as around it; and the efforts of Muslim liberals (such as the Nobel peace prize-winner Shirin Ebadi) are not helped by the tendency of non-Muslims to behave as if the only voice of Islam that mattered were that of the reactionaries.
The other thing to remember is that you could have a similar debate about Roman Catholicism, born-again Protestantism, hard-core Hinduism and just about any formal religion except, possibly, wishy-washy Anglicanism. It's just that we don't.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 01:05 PM

854 Here's one more thought:

Here's a few things the bush administration was wrong about

1. Iraq dosen't have nuculear capabilities it was blown up by the Jews 1 month before the (pussy)french finished building it for them. And that was in the early 80's
2. We saved innocent iraqi's from hussein's persecution: I don't have factuall numbers but i'm willing to bet more innocent iraqi's were murdered this year than saddame ever did.
3.Iraq dosen't have any of the millions of gallons of the WMD's Powell tried to convince the UN about, and if he did don't you think he would of used them before he climbed his royall ass into that fucking rat hole we found him in.
4.This war has cost us at least 1000 lives to date, and who know's how many soildgers are missing arms & legs from roadside bombs, when the were riding around in there unarmored trucks. Would you have said yes if you knew were gonna lose so much.
5.This cost of war has just topped 200 billion dollars, the bush admin said it would cost 87 billion, but maybe they knew if they committed that much money and lives. Real americans wouldn't leave until the job was done NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT COST.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 01:21 PM

855 Madarmywife

Do you have any other talents, apart from being semi-illiterate?

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 01:38 PM

856 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM (8:71)


FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

Posted by: Qatadah at September 27, 2004 01:53 PM

857 unbelieveable twits : I am glad to see someone who has the intelligence and not the narrow mind or bias about Irelands trouble like the "truebrit"

Ireland had harmed noone and HAD to find a way to fight against terrorist invaders, we were a nation of peace loving farmers before our occupation by the brits. We had done nothing to deserve our fate. If the "truebrit" has a problem with what the IRA has done, then should he not agree that it is only their own fault for invading someone elses country and commiting terrorist acts themselves. I notice that he only mentions the nationist group(IRA) and does not mention the loyalist (i.e. UVE, UDA, LVF etc) groups of which there are about 5 or 6 killing innocent Irish with the aid of the british armies and police force not to mention the british government. What did he expect the real Irish to do? roll over and accept the murdering and brutality of the british invaders?
Well, just like when the Argentines tries to get the falklands back the brits went over there and fought against it, are they to be called terrorists for that? Or should the Americans be called terrorists for fighting against the worthless scum for their attack against this wonderful FREE country, I THNK NOT!

This is totally different from the Iraqis and Al Qaeda, they have murder on their hands and after 9/11 something had to be done otherwise they would have continued to commit more attrocities on innocents around the world and in their own country.

I do not agree however with anyone in here saying we should nuke the country, too many innocents would be killed and the result would be that we would not only be as bad as those monsters that behead people without remorse or care for a human life but we would also gain more enemies from other countries who may try to do the same thing the Al Qaeda and Iraqis have.

May your God bless Mr Armstrong and his family as well as the others that have been taken by these devils.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 27, 2004 02:03 PM

858 Look at that gutter rat QATADAH's post. Now do you bleeding heart, terrorist assisting, talk it out liberals understand why I say: DESTROY THIS GUTTER RELIGION PRACTICED BY IDIOTS WHO ARE TO LOW ON THE EVOLUTIONARY SCALE TO UNDERSTAND PEACE, SECURITY OR JUSTICE. Do now what we must do sooner or later.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 02:05 PM

859 as you can see from my above post , Allah has given true believers Mastery over disbelievers . Allah punishes those who dont believe by the hands of we who do believe .
there is only one god and he is mercyfull.

You americans and british choose not believe in the one true god so surley you are the vilest animals in Allahs site .
You are given the choice and you refuse to accept the right path . How many more Ifidels will have to die in Iraq before you realise you are not welcome there and need to go home .

As for those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the punishment (4:56)

Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah - they shall have a severe punishment; and Allah is Mighty, the lord of retribution. (3:4)

Posted by: qatadah at September 27, 2004 02:06 PM

860 People like having smoke blown up their rear-ends. We are supposed to believe that Bush is going to do all the things in his second term he didn't do in the first one, right? Like he actually cares about poor people in our country, how can he care about them elsewhere? Tax cuts to the rich. The economy is horrible. Any job growth there has been has been in the minimum wage job category. The many high and mid-level jobs have diappeared. Talk about Fuzzy Math! The difference between Democrats and Republicans is the Republicans are better at being believed when they lie. Which is frequent.

Why is it so important to have "rescued" the poor Iraqis from evil Sadam and not to help the Sudanese when a genocide is ocurring before the very eyes of the world?

Why is Bush turning a blind eye to the oppressive and very dangerous North Korea who we *know* have WMDs? Mr protect the country seems to be very particular about which countries he goes into. Oil tycoon invades oil-rich nation. Can't possibly be any connection though, right? Bush says so, it has to be true. Bush the Father went in there at least for a legitimate reason even the ungrateful Saudi's hated us worse after we helped them than before.

Which is the last president that openly invaded 2 countries? I don't recall one. Who was the last world leader that did? You can guess they won't be the last 2 if he's elected 4 more years. i see the end is near because most people are sheep or ostriches. Sheep blindly follow and believe everything they want to. Ostriches stick their head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Any who support this and don't fall into one of those categories is just plain evil and deserve what they get. Think for yourselves people and don't always have a knee-jerk reaction because its generally the one you intended to have by the perpetrator of a dead. Its almost like brain-washing on a mass level. It helps when you and your cronies own the majority of the media. Thank God for the BBC (I am from the USA) for some truth in the media.

Posted by: mark at September 27, 2004 02:07 PM

861 Qatadah: What would your response be on looking at verse (9:11) of the Quran?

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 02:15 PM

862 Irish American

I dont know if you have ever lived in the UK , but if you had you would realise that 95% of english people have no desire to have any control over Ireland , want anything to do with it and would gladly re-join the 6 counties with the south tommorow . Thats the ones who are bothered enough to even give it a second thought .
Yeah we all know the brits have fucked up Ireland over the centuries but its hardly the fault of the modern generation . The real problem is the ultra loyalists who wish to remain part of the UK (even if the rest of the UK don t want them )
I understand you have very strong feelings about the subject due to the fact its where you come from . Most people here dont have strong feelings about ireland in all honestly . Hopefully there will be some movement towards a united ireland soon .
maybe when there is you can have terry wogan back....

Posted by: timmy at September 27, 2004 02:15 PM

863 I cannot believe that someone comes on this of all threads and actually advocates terrorism. Shame on you, Irish/American!

I will still not enter into a debate with you unless and until you denounce ALL terrorism, as I do.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 02:18 PM

864 Are you refering to the American hoax about the sone of arabia awakening a great eagle ??

this is not a true quote from the most holy of books . the real 9:11 quote is as follows :-
But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and we make the communications clear for a people who know."

I think you should read the quaran my friend before you embaress your self further with miss quotes and lies

Posted by: qatadah at September 27, 2004 02:24 PM

865 Timmy: thank you for your posting.

I was born in Ireland and lived there for the first 22 years of my life (since then I have lived in many other countries of the world because of my unabilty to get a decent job in my country even though I am very well qualified, because of racial prejudice against the catholics(real Irish) in NI)and suffered many problems with the british oppression, so I do know 1st hand what goes on. I do know that there are many english who do believe in what you say about the occupation of Ireland but there are many who believe the propaganda they are fed by the british media.

I am not a fan of killing anything that lives but when someone commits acts of terrorism against you, what should you do, turn the other cheek or an eye for an eye?

COOgar, you once posted that you do not make personal attacks in here yet I have read many from yourself, and I have not heard you denounce your countries acts of terrorism against the Irish even though the world knows they have been commited.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 27, 2004 02:32 PM

866 Being a reasonably intelligent and somewhat sceptical person, I rather suspected the 9:11 'quote' to be fake / American propaganda.

I kept out of it until now as I personally am not aware of the facts.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 02:39 PM

867 this is nothing compare to what the u.s.a. does world wide in many countries,and people are just to stupid to know.the sad thing is that those who died are the civilians and not the politicals and the war and money hungry people.

Posted by: mariano said at September 27, 2004 02:41 PM

868 Irish / American

1) I don't make personal attacks

2) I will still not enter into a debate with you unless and until you denounce ALL terrorism, as I do.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 02:42 PM

869 Timmy:

As far as Terry Wogan is concerned....


Posted by: Irish/American at September 27, 2004 02:43 PM

870 JONPHILLIPS: Your an shallow minded person who fails or refuses to get the real picture. No need to try to explain. You obviously don't see the next step. As far as WMD tell the tens of thousands of Kurds that were gased to death they really did'nt die. Think, think, look around the corner. Read the gutter rat Qatadah's post above. He isn't the only slime bag who believes and follows that infantile religion. Bush did not write the Koran. The invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with hating other religions or those who are not religious. Israel is not the reason.It was going on before Israel was a country. They just attack one other religion after another. Look are the horrors they caused in India. They attack Christians, Buddist, Hindus any other religion. They don't even let non religious people like myself alone. This is a Islamic problem not a Iraq/Bush problem. These mealy mouthed weaklings that talk about the nice muslims they work with are full of shit. Ask them if they are good Muslims. Ask them if they believe in the Quran. If they are (good) muslims and followers the the teachings of that killer Mohammed the faggot. Then by their own admission they must attack and kill others who don't believe as they. Iraq gives the Islamic bastards a chance at developing a free country. Independent of this gutter religion's policies. A democratic Iraq could well be the starting point towards making more free and democratic countries. AND THESE ISLAMIC FANATICS KNOW THIS. A Iraq not under the yoke of a madman or religion could save the entire region from what has to come. Iraq may be Islams last chance to save itself. It's pure idiocy to blame this on Bush, Blair, Saddam, Israel, oil or whatever comes to mind next. The real problem is Islam and its fanatical followers. Bush is not going to kill you and yours. The Muslim terrorists are.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 02:44 PM

871 I hope that the Americans will vote to continue to carry the burden in Iraq, which would mean voting to re-elected President Bush. It is the only hope for Iraq, not a good hope, but the only one. An election might strengthen the Kurds in the north and, hopefully, the moderate Shias in the south. It has the possibility of creating a legitimate goverment. There will be no election if we withdraw too soon. Very possibly the future of Iraq will decide the future of the world economy. If the Islamic world is torn along the dotted line, the consequences in the oil market could cost a decade of world economic growth.
The only hope for Iraq is a successful democratic election; that ought to be everyone's objective.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 02:46 PM

872 Qatadah:

Religion is another way the rich/powerfull control the poor/weak. Why do you think you see religious fanatics mainly coming from poor,enslaved,impoverished,ignorant countries or in america's case states. Because they have not been educated to the full human extent. Because there lives are so bad and there outlook so dim that they don't belive they can do anything to help themselves, so the turn to "god" the one person who we've always been told will save us. Your faith is just that faith, why in god? Why not in a rock, or in the sun, or in electricity, or in credit card companies. Humans have to have faith and hope it's what makes up get up in the morning, you have let your hope and faith be manipulated. The quran says were the devil the bible says your the devil and they both say the jew is the devil, well which one is it. I truly belive that you need to engulf yourself in religion to take your mind off your own failures as YOU deem what is wright and wrong, you need a "god" to remind you to live the way god deems the "right way", and a "god" to forgive you unconditionaly when you fail to do so. What has caused more deaths than anything known to man since the beginning of written history? Religion
God is in thy! Not in a book or a building

I agree with a lot of the things you said you have a very logical thought process!

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 02:51 PM

873 Jon Philips

There is a devil in every berry of the grape

Posted by: qatadah at September 27, 2004 02:59 PM

874 Qatadah

You're beginning to piss me off. Stop trying to force your religion onto others.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 03:01 PM

875 qatadah: Thankyou for your last post. What would be your response be to my last 4 comments; CAPTIVE AUDIENCE; RESISTANCE IN IRAQ; FELLOW BRITAINS; ZARQAWI HAS METHOD IN HIS MADNESS. I look forward to your next post.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 03:02 PM

876 C00garuk

Iam trying to help you all .

Posted by: qatadah at September 27, 2004 03:03 PM

877 Greyrooster:
I agree with what you say about creating a democratic Iraq may be the building block to ending the islamic fanatasism. But if you didn't know it saddame didn't give a fuck about the quran, Iraq was probably the only country in the middle east not controlled by a religious fanatic, so let me get this straight removing the only leader in the middle east who didn't let religion dictate his actions was a good step? And even if it was why should america burden that responsibility, King arthur and the crusaders couldn't do it why can we, why should my family have to suffer to build a better future in Iraq or the middle east. Why should we help them give me 1 good reason. And don't tell me to protect ourselves we would of destroyed them if they even had the balls to stand up and say we are your enemy.
As far as the kurds getting gased isn't that the same year Donald Rumsfeld was on an envoy to Iraq, to talk about how saddame was doing in the fight against the iranians, i'm sure we watched that from afar.
One more thing I am alot more open to someone else's point of view when they don't begin it with a personall attack, shallow minded is reading my opinion on one topic and deciding i am shallow minded!

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 03:11 PM

878 paul
I bear witness that there is no god but the One God
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God
God is the Greatest
There is no god but the One and True God
I hope this answers your question . If you look deep enough you will see my answers make sense

Posted by: qatadah at September 27, 2004 03:12 PM

879 COUGARUK: You muddleheaded limey: Maybe you have denounced terrorism: But your posts and ideals are helping them.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 03:14 PM

880 Qatadha:

I'm not saying my religion is better than yours I'm saying all religion is a sham, it was created a very long time ago by the powerfull landowners to controll the simple minded pesants. Don't let it control you, or me or anyone.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 03:16 PM

881 thanks for pointing that out to me Jon
I had best go and burn my quran and cancel my pilgrimage to mecca .

I didnt realise it was all a sham

thanks once again for enlightening me

Posted by: qatadha at September 27, 2004 03:21 PM

882 Anyone who commits violence against another human being in the name of religion is evil and if any religion advocates violence in the name of God, i.e. Issuing fatwahs against people who use free speach, beheading innocent human beings, it does not merit the right to be considered a religion possibly a sect or a terrorist organisation.

I do not agree with terrorism but I do believe in the right to freedom and the right to defend yourself against people who commit acts of terrorism/violence against you.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 27, 2004 03:28 PM

883 Something I just don't understand here. First let me say that I love the English, Irish and Scots. Even if the English spawned this COUGARUK. Better name would be TURKEYUK. So Mr. TURKEYUK aka COUGARUK. Can't seem to understand the difference between the coalition invading and staying (for a while) in Iraq and England invading Ireland and staying forever. Iraq was suffering under a tyrant who was responsible for the deaths and tortures of tens of thousands. I'm not a student of Irish history so what was England's excuse for invading? Maybe religion????

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 03:32 PM

884 After watching the video...
It made mi so helpless

Asses of those five fuckers appearing on the footage should be fucked with a stick ! and then
they should die regretfully begging HELL for quicker entrance, ! Burn in hell you sick, fuckin
rag-heads ! may evil fuck them forever !
Please God strike down these motherfuckers!

I truly sympathise with familis of these butcherd people, may God bless them for sacrifing their lifes.

Posted by: mike at September 27, 2004 03:36 PM

885 greyrooster : I await coogars reply on your posting about Ireland with baited breath

Posted by: Padraig at September 27, 2004 03:50 PM

886 greyrooster

It was almost entirely due to religion .
the english split from the catholic church of rome (henry the 8th ) and founded the protestant church of england . Much later James the second lost the throne to the 'bloodless revolution ' when parliament invited william of Orange ( a dutch protestant) who was married to James daughter to become King .
James sought refuge with his old ally, Louis XIV of France, who saw an opportunity to strike at William through Ireland. He provided French officers and arms for James, who landed at Kinsale in March 1689. The lord deputy, the Earl of Tyrconnell, was a Catholic loyal to James, and his Irish army controlled most of the island. James quickly summoned a parliament, largely Catholic, which proceeded to repeal the legislation under which Protestant settlers had acquired land.
William could not ignore the threat from Ireland. In August 1689 Marshal Schomberg landed at Bangor with 20,000 troops and, with Ulster secure, pushed south as far as Dundalk. James's army blocked further progress towards Dublin, but there was no battle and the two armies withdrew to winter quarters. In March 1690 the Jacobite army was strengthened by 7,000 French regulars, but Louis demanded over 5,000 Irish troops in return. The Williamites were reinforced by Danish mercenaries and by English and Dutch regiments. When William himself landed at Carrickfergus on 14 June, he was able to muster an army of 36,000 men. He began the march towards Dublin. There was some resistance near Newry, but the Jacobites soon withdrew to the south bank of the River Boyne.

The Battle of the Boyne is recalled each July in the celebrations of the Orange Order, not on the first day but on "the Twelfth", for eleven days were lost with the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752. It was not the end of the Williamite campaign, and the King had returned to England before the Dutch general Ginkel's victory at Aughrim and the formal Irish surrender after the siege of Limerick in 1691. The Treaty of Limerick was not ungenerous to the defeated Catholics, but they were soon to suffer from penal laws designed to reinforce Protestant ascendancy throughout Irish life.

To say that the english occupy Irealnd is somwhat misleading . There have been large numbers of protestant settlers in the north of ireland (manly from scotland )who now see themselves (after 300 years )not only as being part of the united kingdom but also fiercly proud of coming from Ulster . When Ireland became Independent in the 1920's britain kept Ulster so as not to upset the loyalist protestants , thus dividing the country .
The place is now split between people like Irish/american who want it re-joined to irealnd and dont accept the rule of the british and the ulster loyalists who wish to remain british . both sides are adamant they are right .
the protestants in ulster operated a kind of apartheid against the catholics , giving them the worst land , worst jobs etc and generally oppressed them . Things got so bad in 1969 that the british army was sent in to protect the catholics from the protestants ( the first british soldier was killed by a protestant ) However centuries of resentment of the brits by the local catholics and those in the south reversed the situation and the army was soon seen as being the oppressors again . The brit army didnt exactly help itself by shooting 13 unarmed proesters at a rally in 1972 . since then the situation got worse and worse with lots of murders on all sides , by the catholics (IRA.INLA) the prods (UVF etc) and by the police/army .

hope this explains it for you .

its a very difficult problem as no one solution would satisfy all sides .

Posted by: timmy at September 27, 2004 03:53 PM

887 JON PHILLIPS: So now Donald Rumsfeld gased the Kurds. What was the matter with Iraqis fighting the Iranians? When the Islamic fanatics were killing each other they were'nt killing innocents. Noticed how you did't answer the WMD gas thing. Maybe Saddam used it all up on the Kurdish children. That is until he had time to make another batch. I guess your idea would be to give him the time.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 04:01 PM

888 Greyrooster:
It's not the first time a controlling faction iraticated a certain part of there country's population, Just ask the native american's.
I wasn't implying Rumsfeld gassed the kurds i was implying that we didn't have a problem with it then, why have one now, we didn't have a problem letting saddam mow down the kurds with helicopter gun-ships after the 1st gulf war when we left his military and administration intact, where was our bleeding hearts for the kurds then. Once we fullfilled our obligation to the saudi's by protecting there southern oil fields from further iraqi advance we left the kurds to fend for themselves. And that was bush's father, we never gave a fuck about the kurds so don't use that as a saftey net for this pointless war.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 04:12 PM

889 TURKEYUK aka COUGARUK. You silly shit. American never funded the Irish (terrorist}. There may be Irish groups in America doing this. I suppose there are. Hell, we have found Islamic funding groups here. I suppose there are Irishmen and others in England sending the Irish money right now. You can bet theres raghead groups in England sending money or worse to terrorists in Iraq right now. Don't blame my country for your domestic problems. I don't know why the English and Irish are fighting. Wish you both would quit. Got news for both of you. You have a bigger much worst enemy. It's called ISLAM. Your problem is probably is same all over. I KILL YOU IN THE NAME OF GOD WHO IS ALL GOOD AND MERCIFUL.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 04:16 PM

890 Timmy : The protestant settlers came to Ireland via the british murdering the Irish owners of the properties/land and giving it to the settlers and making the surrounding Irish land owners tennants and ordered to pay rent to the scottish settlers.

Therefore it is not misleading to say that Ireland is still occupied by the british.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 27, 2004 04:19 PM

891 Jon Phillips: We were talking about WMD. Did Saddam have any or not? Of course he had them. By your own admission that he gased thousands and thousands of Kurds. Why did we abandon the Kurds? (this is something that really upsets me as I feel shame here). WE LISTENED TO THE NUTLESS UN. One of the reasons we didn't listen to them the second time.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 04:39 PM

892 Greyroster:
Yes, he had chemical weapons , but he was not a credible threat to the us, if it was such a problem why didn't iran take action or even the saudi's or the israeli's? We didn't leave iraq because the un told us to, we left because we were only there to make sure saudi oil fields were safe because there willing to play by our rules.
We abandonded the kurds because they weren't part of our economic agenda, we never cared what happened to them, we were only there to protect our intrest in the saudi's keeping there oil fields

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 04:49 PM

893 This war in Iraq was doomed from the start. While it is true many wanted to be free from Sadaam, there still were many who didn't. You cannot free those who do not wish to be free. You also cannot impose a way of life or form of government on a people who are not of that way without violence and ruthlessness, so how were we supposed to go into a country and say POOF, you shall be democratic because we deem it is the way you should be. Stupidity. Ignorance. Alterior Motive? I vote for the third, but regardless, get the hell out now and let nature take its course. Let the UN come in and help if they are asked for. This Texas cowboy shit ain't working Georgey. My dog is named George and I've considered renaming him because I now find the name insulting to me because he represents me against my will and I am an American who loathes what he has done to our country both inside and in the world at large. Taking power from the UN is a huge mistake that may never be repairable. Why should anyone else listen to the UN before invading another country against its wishes? I can see us invading Afghanistan, but in hindsite don't necessarily agree with that either. Who suffers in a war? The poor and the civilians. How many more completely innocent Iraqis and Afghans died from the US invasions than americans died on 911 or any other terrorist attack? We are the terrorists here as much as they.

I would hate any country that came into my country and killed my friends, neighbors and family members. I would want to kill those invaders or at least get them out of my country. Killing innocent civilians for any reason is a cowardly, vile act be it in an ill-conceived war or as a terroristic act.

Allah is God and God is Allah. One religion believes Jesus is the son of that God, the other believes Mohamed is the supreme profit, and another believes the messiah has yet to come. They all derived from Abraham and have the same beginnings and thus the one God is the same God and all this fighting over it is insane.

Posted by: mark at September 27, 2004 04:50 PM

894 While everyone is arguing over whether we should or shouldn't be in Iraq, did it ever occur to anyone that these behooded terrorists ARE one and the same Al Quaeda guys? If they REALLY wanted to scare everybody, they would show their ugly mugs, instead of hiding them behind ninja turtle masks and gream reaper hoods!!

I am sick and tired of people saying, "well, how would YOU feel if an army came into your country?"...look, we've got to get rid of these terrorists, wherever they may be hiding; we lost innocent lives too....and after all, THEY started it.

Remember 9/11.

Posted by: Laura at September 27, 2004 04:53 PM

895 While everyone is arguing over whether we should or shouldn't be in Iraq, did it ever occur to anyone that these behooded terrorists ARE one and the same Al Quaeda guys? If they REALLY wanted to scare everybody, they would show their ugly mugs, instead of hiding them behind ninja turtle masks and grim reaper hoods!!

I am sick and tired of people saying, "well, how would YOU feel if an army came into your country?"...look, we've got to get rid of these terrorists, wherever they may be hiding; we lost innocent lives too....and after all, THEY started it.

Remember 9/11.

Posted by: Laura at September 27, 2004 04:53 PM

896 quran, once again thankyou for your post. If possible, could I have a more indepth analyses from my previous question. Thankyou.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 04:57 PM

897 TIMMY; Most informative, thanks for history lesson. I new the French were somehow involved. They're famous for starting shit then pulling out. I'm an American,of Swede/Norweigan extraction. My families been here from the begining but for some reason we keep marrying nordic types. I'm married a Dane. My grandfather told me that the Normans of France were really Norweigans who were given land by the French if we didn't kick their asses. Thus Normany, Thus William the conqueror, thus your country attacked. See the French always start shit then pull out for others to fight.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 04:58 PM

I am still waiting for your response on your background and education...I may even actually listen to your ideas if you would...confirm??

As Irish American stated you have made many insults to people posting, such as the one you just gave me, let me quote , "Do you have any other talents other than being semi-illiterate..(I believe one could take that as sexual harassment.ha ha.....but thank you for just using the word semi.)

I can also assume you have not served your Country,(from reading your lack of having any balls to fight for anything) or stood up for anything..worth standing up for....

What we do know is Bush will be elected again , we all know that.
We can't change the past and we are already in Iraq, it would be more of a mess to pull out and leave those who want our help, (they never seem to show them on the news.)
There are 3times more Iraqis and Kurds that want us there than those that don't ,,,,,
All this talk of religion is useless, America stands for freedom including freedom of religion, it has nothing to do with religion why we are there
The abuse comes from everyside in any war...from what our soilders did in the Iraqi prison to the beheadings, its the death or torture of the innocent lives I don't understand.
its amazing to me all the fighting over religion and past wars on this messenger board...looking at all our actions here and replys should tell any of us there will always be war and disagreements..........some worth fighting for and some not..........the sad thing is no one can choose where they are born, we were all raised with different beliefs...even the terrorist who probably watched their own mother get raped at age 7 and father killed giving them reason to "freely" join and be raised and trained or brainwashed by that particular group of killers,.........that is all they have known,,,that breeds hatred, combined with the belief of killing us infidels, somebody has to atleast try and stop some of this if anything to protect these children....
..that somebody right now is America and the other countries involved..God Bless America and our president, be with the soilders such as my husband in their fight and commitment
God be with Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Hensley,
FREE Mr. Bigley!!!!!!!!

Posted by: MadArmyWife at September 27, 2004 05:00 PM

899 Laura:

I agree all terrorist must be erraticated, that's why we went to afghnistan to deal with bin-laden where he sleeps and remove the taliban which was allowing bin-laden to operate his organization.
Good move
Now we have gone into iraq and took the top off the pressure cooker, iraq is now the biggest breeding ground for terrorism in the whole world and we created that, saddam never allowed terrorist inside his country because he was all powerfull, second he wasn't a religious nut so he had no religious ties to the islamic extremist, the best the bush administration could come up with is a meeting between al-queda and saddam in the mid 90's which can't even be proven.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 05:03 PM

900 qatadah, I apologise as I seem to have incorrectly pronounced your name wrong, in my very comment.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 05:06 PM

901 I can't believe some posters wish to reason with that piece of camel humping shit QUTADAH. You cannot reason with this trash. Isn't that the message I've been trying to get across for days. At last, one of the bastards has came out. This should be proof I am correct. You cannot reason with the followers of this sick religion. The call should be revenge. It's only thing they understand. It's not an Iraq thing. They're just as bad in other Islamic countrys. Good Muslims my ass. I'll believe in good muslims when I see them police the bad Muslims.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 05:14 PM

902 irish/american

i understand your point of view and your reason for saying you are still occupied by the british .
All i meant was that the decendants of the scottish settlers that live in Ulster have been there so long they see themselves as part of the very fabric of the land in which they live , not as some invading occupying force .
Your average Joe working class englishman doesnt hate the Irish or have any desire to control them , far from it . I accept that there are ultra right wing nutters about who probably do but they are a minority thanks god .
also there are millions of people living in the UK of irish decsent who just get on with it .
I appreciate you feel bitter and resentful towards the british but you shouldnt pre-judge them all and you cetrtianly shouldnt think for one minute we all hate the irish .
far from it

Posted by: timmy at September 27, 2004 05:20 PM

903 QUTADAH: I am not like these kinder, gentler types answering your posts. Make no mistake about it. I want to kill you and all like you. I want to tie your hands behind your back. Then I want to slowly saw your head off with a dull knife. Then I want to piss down your neck. Then I want to show your head and body to your family while they listen to your screams.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 05:24 PM

904 Jon,

Saddam kept terrorists out of his country? So, what does that make him...the Good Fairy???? He was another Hitler and he tortured his own people!

Greyrooster, you're on the right track, I'll believe in a good Muslim, only after they get all the bad ones.

All the bleeding heart liberals feel sorry for the Iraqi people, the women, children and innocent civilians. Sorry, I don't, not any more. They welcomed our troops, and now they are spitting on us, just like we were spat on when our soldiers came home from Viet Nam, beaten. Did we really "win" that war?

And like the other commenter said before, "if the nuclear bombs weren't enuf to scare other countries from bothering us, what makes us think invading Iraq will now?"...not an exact quote, but you guys get the gist.

I am torn whether or not the right thing was to go into Iraq. I want to believe Bush, I really do. If I really thought he was going in there to hunt the same terrorists that brought down the twin towers, I might have a little more faith in the administration.

At least that Farooqi bastid got it today or yesterday.

Is Bigley still alive???? No one's saying jack shit about anything. His name is not even mentioned, nor are the others. They had a brief mention about a memorial for Hensley and a website collecting donations for his daughter, but that's it...nothing about Armstrong, any services, and not a damned thing about Bigley.

REading all the opinions and comments on this forum leads me to the conclusion that even we, as Americans are at odds with each other, let aloe other countries. How can we overcome the enemies, when we are enemies to each other?

Posted by: Laura at September 27, 2004 05:25 PM

905 In my view, people have made comparisons with other campaigns to Iraq, particularly WW2, which is inappropriate. Whatever the conspiracy therists insist, no one believes that the British Goverment wishes to rule Iraq, as others have implied.
We get only glimpses of the good work our troops and engineers have been doing in the reconstruction of Iraq (which may be a manifestation of media preoccupation with bad news), but the consequences of abandoning the achievements to inevitable insurrection must surely be tantamount to giving in to hostage-takers.
People have sneered at the perceived lack of planning for Iraq's future on the part of the US and UK goverments. Those who advocate withdrawal surely have a similar responsibility to consider the consequences of giving terrorists precisely what they seek.

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 05:33 PM

906 COOqarUK, have you gone to bed?

Posted by: paul at September 27, 2004 05:43 PM


Posted by: naynay at September 27, 2004 05:47 PM

908 greyrooster wrote:-

"Make no mistake about it. I want to kill you and all like you. I want to tie your hands behind your back. Then I want to slowly saw your head off with a dull knife. Then I want to piss down your neck. Then I want to show your head and body to your family while they listen to your screams."

greyrooster is not better than the terrorists and does not deserve to be considered part of the human race for writing that sort of trash.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 05:54 PM

909 JON PHILLIPS: So we bring Saddam back. Give him a billion or so dollars. Arm his henchmen in Tikrit. Hug his neck, kiss his ass, and get to hell out. This solution is better than any you have come up with. You find fault after fault but never come with a solution. Look at your past posts. Shallow minded is correct. You find fault with your own country, your country's leaders, Your country's history, your country's policies, your country's leading religion. No solutions. No stand. Just complaining about the country that allowed your starving ancestors to come to this great land. Why in the hell are you here. Ever thought of going back. You're hurting the cause. I got news for you. If Kerry is elected we will still be in Iraq.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 05:56 PM

910 madarmywife

My 'semi-illiterate' comment was not a personal attack or insult but merely stating the facts, as anyone with a hint of intelligence would be able to confirm within a few moments of reading the majority of your previous posts.

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 05:56 PM

911 Paul

No I hadn't gone to bed... but I have now!

Posted by: C00garUK at September 27, 2004 06:00 PM

912 Laura:

There is a movie coming out you and grayrooster should see together:
Team America
World Police

In George Washington's exit address he said "America should not envolve themselves in the conflicts in europe, it will only leed to our demise."
From your statement I will assume that it is the USA responisibility to the world to remove all evil dictators. Well looks like we have alot of work to do where should we start: Iran, N. Korea, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Israel, Sudan, Cuba, Palestine, China?
What you are implying is Imperialism, or should I say Colonialism

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 06:01 PM

Yeah sure, you terrorist ass kisser. You would hug their necks for their crimes. They should get what they deserve. What type of rag do you wear on your head. You want them to get away with murdering people. I say they should get what they give. I say anyone who doesn't think so is as bad as they are. You're nothing but a bull shit talker. Not of the human race but a cowardly sheep. Keep talking and helping the enemy. I believe I've figured you out.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 06:08 PM

914 Will everyone take a few minutes and see the videos of the horrible beheadings. While you are watching them imagine you are their wifes, children, parents. Then imagine the victims are your loved ones. Then post If you think I am wrong to wish to kill them in the same way.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 06:14 PM

915 GreyRooster:
I have no solutions; your solution is to basically irraticate all muslims particurally Islamic muslims. That will never happen. That seems kinda the same mentality Hitler had towards the Jews.
Pointing out fault's in your goverment is 1 of the main factors of being a patriot.
Bush is a rich boy's son, and he has no business being our president.
I am not complaining about Christianity I am complaining about all religions.
I am here because I was born in New Jersey, what do you mean why am i here? Where should I be.
Should all people who disagree with American Foriegn Policy go back to the country there ancestors came from.
I didn't know i was supposed to have a solution, I have no facts of the real situation on the ground in iraq. I don't even know what were there to accomplish anymore.
Think about what your saying, your calling me shallow minded, but, your saying the only solution is to irraticate all muslims, and you just told a guy you want to cut off his head and piss down his neck. Where i come from we call people who only resort to violence bully's and bully's are shallow-minded.
I will take your persistent personal attacks as you signal of defeat.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 06:22 PM

916 I don't understand why people even look at these brutal tapes or why they even respond to islamic posters on this board. You have seen with whom you are dealing with - wake up - these people can't be measured with our civilized standards. Just watch the Cechens kill the children in the school the other week.

I have not looked at the tapes. I don't want to witness their disturbed actions. It is just too primitive. Don't watch the tapes - leave these pictures up to them. This is their type of world - not ours.

These underdeveloped beings are so low - too low to raise feelings of hate or anger in me.

My condolences go out to the families of the hostages.

Posted by: Tania at September 27, 2004 06:36 PM

917 JON PHILLIPS: George Washington was correct. At that time. But George Washington the slave holder was wrong concerning other issues. He was a great man. Constandly talking and finding fault with the past does nothing for the present.
Where did I say anything about removing the worlds evil dictators? You blabber on without conviction so much now you're inventing talk that has nothing to do with protecting Americans and others from the Terrorists. If we had followed George Washington's advice we should have stayed out of WW2. Is that what you are saying? We had a humanitarian obligation to bring down a mad man. Namely, Hitler. No one in Germany today will disagree. Same as that mad man Saddam. In the end the people of Iraq will also agree. They have let hateful religious idiots take over their country. Same as Germany. Other presidents have also said things concerning international policy. How about WALK SOFTLY BUT CARRY A BIG STICK. Do you stand for anything besides tearing down your own country?

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 06:42 PM

918 JON PHILLIPS: You jerk! where did I say anything about irraticating all muslims. Again, you talk so much your inventing stupid talk because you have nothing to say. I wish to do to my enemies what that are doing to my people. Defeat!!! From someone who just talks and rambles about how bad America is. Love it or leave it turkey. Another thing dipshit! I happen to be the son of a rich man. And I shouldn't be president. Or my beautiful daughters or brave son. Successful people shouldn't be president??? Man I did I ever figure you out. You live in New Jersey and call violent people bullys. Well pal, I lived in Manhatten (Governor's Island)many years and then we called people who fought back heros.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 07:05 PM

919 NAYNAY: Are you nuts? What are your stupid ramblings about? What have they got to do with Islamic assholes cutting the heads of innocent people and video taping it so their families can suffer more. Loosen that rag on your head its cutting off the circulation to the brain. Either that or the blood can't find something that small.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 07:20 PM

920 I don't think comparing the nazi's and hitler who controlled most of europe at one point to saddam and his mountain of nothing a fare comparison. I have said nothing about how bad America is that's where you lost me at. I only disagree with our foriegn policy, especially in Iraq. As far as the "son of a rich man" comment i made, what i was implying is that George Bush has not learned the nessecary skills to lead the most powerfull nation in the world, do you think he ever even held a real job, we know he bankrupted both oil companies his father gave him(in one way or another). He was given what 15% of the Rangers by his dad's buddies. He has accomplished nothing worth talking about, yet we put him on our highest pedestal. Before you blow a gasket I know neither has John Kerry, but at least kerry went to Viet Nam like my father instead of cheny and bush hiding behind family fortunes. Again I say I will take your personal attack as your sign of mental defeat, maybe calling me 1 more childish name will get your point across.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 07:25 PM

921 Are these masked motherfuckers killing our soldiers that invaded their "country"?? NO, they are beheading people who are there to help THEIR people, for chrissakes. That's how they get even with us for going over there.

Why are we trying to help them get their freedom, though? Why are we so concerned for others' rights to it? Surely, Bush has us there for other motives...DUH!! I am trying like hell to rationalize us being there, the only thing that makes it right being there is watching those beheadings.

Rooster's right...could all of you honestly say that if you pictured your own loved ones at the hands of these sick fuckos, your position wouldn't be the same as mine? To eradicate the lot of them.

They hate us, they would kill us in the name of Allah, whether we went there or not. They are killing Koreans, Turks, Brits, everyone, whether their countries are there or not. Get rid of everyone and keep only their kind, Hitler's philosophy.

May the killing of this Farooqi fuck be only the beginning of many...hmmmmm, this may be a good Xmas after all.

Posted by: Laura at September 27, 2004 07:37 PM

922 Greyroster:

that last one was for you

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 07:38 PM

923 Just to clear the Air:

I would give the go ahead to pulling out all of our troops and nukeing the whole fucking place.
Realistically if we would of done that after the 1st gulf war we could be mining there oil by now.

But, that's not going to happen, what is happening is were spending 200 billion and counting, and have lost 1000+ of our buys and counting. That is why i don't support the war we are accomplishing nothing there, maybe in 25 years they'll actually be some sense of security in Iraq.

Posted by: Jon Phillips at September 27, 2004 07:49 PM


Posted by: naynay at September 27, 2004 07:52 PM

925 NAYNAY: What's a matter. Not smart enough to learn to shift key. You ragheaded Christian hating dumbshit.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 08:28 PM

926 That a way. Jon. That a way. Something constructive. It's a start!
My hopes for the hostages, wish I could do something to help them. Tomorrow I'm going tuna fishing while innocent people are in terror for their lives.

Posted by: greyrooster at September 27, 2004 08:36 PM

927 Nay Nay and TurkeyUK aka CoogarUK,

Come on you guys can do better than that??? That didn't even hurt at all.........

NayNay, could you please give me the scripture book, chapter and verses so I can see how long Jesus's hair was?? and just what he looked like...

When I say God, there is only one God we will all answer to the day of judgement....He is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.....He sent his son Jesus to die for your sins.......

you are really not makng any sense naynay...and what does holidays have to do with the Christian faith?? There are alot of Christians that don't celebrate holidays,,,,when you refer to that no one understands???? Mythology? yes it is fun to read about the planets and look at horoscopes, I just need you to inlighten me on how you use it as a religion...just curious as usual....and the planets wow, are they Gods, do you pray to them, do you know who created them?

Hey CoogarUK,,,still waiting to see what kind of education you have?????????
As far as my postings , they sure are easier and more interesting than the crap you put on here, why don't you and naynay get together and give me some better sticks and guys are boring me now....

Go Get em Greyrooster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and rooster you are the only one on here out of the ones that keep posting....that I see even giving a word at all on Mr. Armstrongs behalf and naynay you leave greyrooster alone, your one to talk, all you do is cut me down and God himself, I wouldn't walk out in any thunder storms....

Posted by: madarmywife at September 27, 2004 10:01 PM

928 TIMMY:

I totally agree that not all english hate the Irish or Americans but when you get the likes of TURKEYUK (coogaruk) you can appreciate my sentiments.

I lived in england long enough to know the general concensus of who they like and don't like. Their general view of americans aint pretty by any stretch of the imagination and their view of Ireland is clouded by their ignorance of the real truth of what is going on there, usually their knowledge is gained through reading the Sun or Daily Star, unfortunately.

But the protestants of Ireland believe NI is part of britain and as far as I am concerned it is Ireland. Put it this way, if I stole your car by beating you to a pulp, the next day does it still belong to me? or three years later for that matter, no, I would still be the thief and the car would still be your property.

Posted by: Irish/American at September 27, 2004 10:20 PM

929 Irish/American
having proudly inherited my Scott/Irish blood,
just want to say I have never thought of Ireland as a part of Britain, Your metephor using the beat up car was unmatchable,,,good for you!!!

I think coogarUk needs to give us his background in education, come on cougar!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at September 27, 2004 11:14 PM

930 No we can't stop terrorism, but maybe this is a begining to gaining some control over it, Even God himself tried flooding the whole world to rid it of its evil, leaving just Noah and his family, so I hardly think blowing Iraq off the map is the answer, History has proven there are and always will be evil in people, it is part of the sinful nature we are born with, everyone wants to be chief, everyone has the answer!!!

what we are doing is better than nothing at all, 9-11 just opened the door. I do know the us will play a very long part in Iraq, what are anyones views (without insults to me) on regular army post such as in South Korea, do you think they would finally adjust and accept that we are not going to give up, I don't want my husband to have to do tours there for the next 10 years...

Posted by: not_so_madarmywife at September 27, 2004 11:44 PM

John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5
The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19
Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34
Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27
Christ's witness of himself is true.
John 8:18,14
Christ's witness of himself is not true.
John 5:31
Christ laid down his life for his friends
John 15:13/ John 10:11
Christ laid down his life for his enemies
Rom 5:10
It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 19:7
It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 18:31
Children are punished for the sins of the parents
Ex 20:5
Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
Ezek 18:20
Man is justified by faith alone
Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
Man is not justified by faith alone
James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13
It is impossible to fall from grace
John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
It is possible to fall from grace
Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21
No man is without sin
1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
Christians are sinless
1 John 3: 9,6,8
There is to be a resurrection of the dead
1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
There is to be no resurrection of the dead
Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
Prov 11:31
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10
Annihilation the portion of all mankind
Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
Endless misery the portion of all mankind
Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2
The Earth is to be destroyed
2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
The Earth is never to be destroyed
Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4
No evil shall happen to the godly
Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
Evil does happen to the godly
Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7
Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
Job 42:12
Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17
Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
Prov 15:6
Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
Luke 6:24
The Christian yoke is easy
Matt 11:28,29,30
The Christian yoke is not easy
John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8
The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness
Gal 5:22
The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury
Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11
Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
Longevity denied to the wicked
Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17
Poverty a blessing
Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
Riches a blessing
Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
Prov 30:8,9
Wisdom a source of enjoyment
Prov 3:13,17
Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
Eccl 1:17,18
A good name is a blessing
Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
A good name is a curse
Luke 6:26
Laughter commended
Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
Laughter condemned
Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4
The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
Prov 22:15
There is no remedy for foolishness
Prov 27:22
A fool should be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:5
A fool should not be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:4
Temptation to be desired
James 1:2
Temptation not to be desired
Matt 6:13
Prophecy is sure
2 Pet 1:19
Prophecy is not sure
Jer 18:7-10
Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years
Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
Man's life is but seventy years
Ps 90:10
The fear of man was to be upon every beast
Gen 9:2
The fear of man is not upon the lion
Prov 30:30
Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19
Moses was a very meek man
Num 12:3
Moses was a very cruel man
Num 31:15,17
Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13
All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17

Posted by: naynay at September 28, 2004 12:03 AM

932 Mark and Jon Phillips:

Thanks for your insight. I think you two are the closest to being right on the issues. You have shown some good points that I had not well considered. I am worried that Bush will be re-elected and make things worse. Idon't know if Kerry will be any better but I have seen what Bush/Cheney has to offer and it makes me ill. I can only see more death and destruction in the future if Bush is re-elected, along with ever increasing budget deficits, less and less help for our own people in America.

The only people gaining from the Iraqi mess is Halliburton and Dick Cheney. Someone said earlier that Chaney is no longer on the Halliburton payroll and while he isn't getting a paycheck (as far as I know), he has huge stock options in a trust and benefits if the company benefits and whose to say he isn't benefitting in other ways that you and I don't know about. I don't trust any of that crowd of crooks. They could not care less about anyone but what they get for themselves.

I guess that makes me a great big LIBERAL!! I am and I am damned proud of it! I do care more about the social ills in our own country than I care about the social ills everywhere else. Although I think we should do what we can to help others as well. What is Bush doing for you personnally? You say he cut your taxes? maybe he did but he also ran up $400+Billion in deficits from a budget surplus of nearly $500 billion. That means he lost more than $800 Billion in three years. What will he do for in four more years? Are you safer than before 9-11-01? I think not. Do you have less freedoms than before Bush came to office, You bet you do! The Patriot Act means that you can be accused of being a terrorist by just about any government agency and you can be held without due process for an indefinite period of time. That amongst other rights can be taken away at the whim of the government. We are rapidly becoming a police state.

The crazy thing is that to "protect our freedom" Bush is destroying out freedom. The right-wingers can't see what they are doing because they are only interested in how they can profit from the current mess. Not just in $$$ but political gain as well. Kiss Bush's ass and make points.

Posted by: rick at September 28, 2004 01:14 AM

933 My comfort and prayers go out to those hostages familes. I am so sorry for your loss and may all your lost loved ones rest in peice.

Posted by: Just a person at September 28, 2004 02:03 AM

934 I am so sick of all this bullshit, I watched those videos and it made me sick to my stomach. I can't believe anyone in their right mind could be so cold. For the families that lost a loved one may they rest in peice. So sorry about ya'lls loss.

Posted by: Just a person at September 28, 2004 02:07 AM

935 qatadah, Would you consider yourself to be an Islamic extremist? Or would you join your fellow Muslims, Dr Musharraff Hussein and Dr Daud Abdullah, from the British Muslim Council, whom denounce terrorism? As I have mentioned in other posts, Islamic extremists have hijacked the Muslim faith(a peace loving faith). I look forward to your future comments.

Posted by: paul at September 28, 2004 05:01 AM


Day after day, week after week, the gazetteer of death is establishing itself in our consciousness. Places most people had never heard of 18 months ago-Fallujah, Najaf, Sadr City-have become as familiar as the Mekong Delta and Khe Sanh were a generation ago.
And just as they did in the early days of Vietnam, war leaders are singing the same siren song of assured victory. "Steady progress" is being made in Iraq, according to President Bush. His acolyte in Baghdad, Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, goes further. "We are succeeding," he told Congress, last week, adding that the terrorists were on the run.
No doubt we will get a similarly upbeat view of the situation from Tony Blair. Politicians have to be optimistic. But at some point optimism must give way to honesty.
By any realistic assessment, Iraq is worse off now than it has been at any time since the occupation began. We have got used to the daily bloodshed and terror, the car bombs, mortar attacks, kidnappings, beheadings, assassinations and sabotage.
In a way, the coalition spokesmen are right to play these events down. The insurgents are never going to succeed in a straightforward military contest with the coalition forces.
But that is not their aim. The purpose of the violence is to prevent the establishment of a degree of stability and relative prosperity in which the rule of law can take hold. On this front the enemies of progress are doing well.
Squalor and fear suffuse the lives of the poor majority in the centre and south. Greenish lakes of sewage lap the edges of the housing estates. Last week, the first cases of hepatitis, directly linked to the state of infrastrcture, were reported in Baghdad.
There is no work except for jobs the occupiers are offering. Take one, and in the eyes of the insurgents you are a collaborator and a candidate for a bullet in the head. The middle classes, what remain of them, are no more secure.
The largesse donated by America and the world for reconstruction lies in bank vaults, mostly unspent. The insurgents' grip on the place means that almost all the projects that would improve living conditions are on hold.
All this is obvious to Iraq's and to the dwindling band of independent observers in the country. But Mr Bush continues to tell a story of heartening and irrevocable progress, which some of his natural supporters are now starting to challenge.
There is a yawning discrepancy between what the President claims is being done and what the Pentagon sees on the ground. Mr Bush says there are 100,000 fully trained and equipped security forces currently at work. Defence department documents released this week estimate that only 22,700 Iraqi personnel had recieved enough training to make them "minimally effective at their tasks".
Mr Bush has promised to lavish $9 billion on reconstruction over the next three months, a splurge that massively outstrips the projections of his own deputy Secretary of State, Richard Armitage, who is talking much more modestly of a spend of $300 million to $400 million a month.
As for the violence which poisons the country and feeds its sickness, the coalition persists in a dangerously oversimplified analysis which can hamper the development of a successful strategy for dealing with it.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is almost as potent as an American hate figure now as Osama bin Laden. He is blamed for almost every spectacular act of terrorism committed in Iraq. Focusing on Zarqawi-an outsider from Jordan and an al-Qaeda sympathiser-deflects attention from the Sunnis around Fallujah and the home-grown Shia extremists of the Mahdi army who have shown an impressive willingness to take the battle to the Americans against overwhelming odds. But talking up Zarqawi also has a downside that undermines America's claims to omnipotence. Why is he still at large when 140,000 men are chasing him, not forgetting the $25 million bounty on his head?
The US-British adventure in Iraq still has some way to go before it can be counted a failure. There are swaths of the country where order prevails and an overwhelming majority who yearn for the coalition to succeed.
That will not happen unless Mr Bush and Mr Blair abandon their absurd over-optimism, confront the truth and admit that the situation is dire. They must accept without flinching or dissembling that the price of freedom in Iraq is much higher than supporters of the war, myself included, originally naively assumed.
The most precious gift we can give to Iraq is freedom; freedom in its solid manifestations, freedom from fear and want. That means security, jobs and services, just as it did at the beginning of the occupation.
Then the need was urgent. Now it's desperate. What Iraqi's yearn for most is not elections but security. The coalition troops in the country have proved unable to supply it. The Iraqi forces are indisciplined, untrained and, as the arrest of a National Guard brigadier for suspected collusion with insurgents underlined last week, potentially unreliable.
Peering into the not-so-distant future, it is not impossible to imagine an Iraq that looks something like Lebanon in the worst years of civil war, a patchwork of fiefdoms presided over by warlords to whom the local population has turned in search of a degree of protection that the state was unable to provide.
It is a dreadful prospect. To prevent this happening, America has no choice but to commit many more troops, enough to secure the infrastructure, guarantee the safety of the Iraqi police and army recruits and enable the revival of the reconstruction programme.
Public anxiety over Iraq is currently stuck on domestic political questions of trust and truthfulness. It is time the debate moved on. We should be harrying Mr Bush and Mr Blair, not so much about what they did but about what they intend to do. They can start by telling the truth about what is going on in Iraq. It is Fallujah and Sadr City, not Washington and Westminster, that matters most now.

Posted by: paul at September 28, 2004 08:51 AM

937 NayNay,
what have you done, look what you are doing to your eternal salvation...what bible do you look at, you are right someone has altered yours,

I looked up the verses you had, this is what I found on the first two...I will not list them all as this messenger board is not about religion, I am a baptist preacher's daughter and a christian, we do not worship Mary, we are not catholic, I don't no where you got that, only that you are lost my friend, please get a bible and look these verses up,

don't just copy and paste the trash you were given by some book or on the net,.....

John 10:30 "I and the Father are One"
Phil 2:5 "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ"

If you would like the rest I will send them to you...but the only one you need to remember is:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotton son, so that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life"

I must say I admire your strength and determination NayNay, a good quality to have but don't waste it on a false God.

Jesus loves you my friend, and so do I....why do you make me out to be some kind of religious freak, I am just a down to earth country girl,

God Bless and protect Mr. Bigley,
The Armstrong family and Hensleys,

Posted by: Not_so_madarmywife at September 28, 2004 10:17 AM

938 One more thing NayNay, you are comparing word meanings and statements, you are not looking at the whole story from the Bible that goes with them, such as with Elijah, He was a man of great faith and God loved him so much he took him up to Heaven yes in the Old Testament, but you are comparing In the New Testament where Jesus is talking to the people about what Heaven looked like, he is telling them he is the only who has been from Heaven to earth to testify to what it is my friend the whole story.

Posted by: not_so_madarmywife at September 28, 2004 10:36 AM

939 dats so horrible im in skool n we lafd at firt wen we saw em but its rely mingin i feel sry for his family!!! kill da peeps

Posted by: emlee at September 28, 2004 10:48 AM

940 Dad is a great, caring man who has taken in and raised many kids beside his own. He's the first one to reach for his wallet when someone is in need. Dad is an agnostic. None of his kids are. He insisted we attend the church of our choosing. However, that's not my message. All I wish to say is God had nothing to do with the murder of Mr. Armstrong. Why is he the subject here? Please don't bring the lord into this horrible squabble.

Posted by: Daughter of Greyrooster at September 28, 2004 11:08 AM

941 You realize that one of the goals of those who beheaded these hostages has been met. This very thread was part of their goal. They want to sew dissent and most of all create fear to pressure someone into giving them what they want. I hate them for what they did and could easily kill every one of the terrorists in the world without a pang of regret. That doesn't make the USA being in Iraq the correct thing. You sheep continue to bleet back the Bush propaganda spewed at you and still don't realize you and thousands more like you are being used by them to justify US presence there.

Invading Iraq did nothing to stop terrorism. The Terrorists we stopped in Iraq are those who came there after the US invaded Iraq and those who were born because the US invaded Iraq. That is the truth. Don't let your anger at a few hate the many. It is fear (and stupidity) that is making people say things like nuke the entire arab world and stupid things like that. The terrorists have won if you change one thing in your life because of an act they comitted.

Posted by: mark at September 28, 2004 11:09 AM

942 If we didn't have God, what would we have, he is the only hope in all of this, he is the only one who can give Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Hensley Peace and knows all things, just look at revelation...

NayNay In John 14:28, when Jesus refers to "the father is greater than I" It doesn't mean he is not his equal...Jesus is God's son, making him God himself, the holy Spirit is God and Jesus within us, Don't make it harder than it is to understand,,,,all you need is a childs mind and faith in this understanding...

It is not meant for anyone to have all the answers of the Bible, most things we will never know or understand until we see Jesus face to face in Heaven....such as Where did God come from?

Posted by: not_so_madarmywife at September 28, 2004 11:39 AM

943 wow yall are playin with fire on here
that was the most awful thing I ever saw
that poor man
we have to do something or we or our family could end up like that
I have to say armywife is right about Jesus
If Ididn't believe that he was coming back I would lose all hope
The Bible said in Rev. all eyes will be on the middle east
that is enough proof I need right now to belive nayay

Posted by: ashley at September 28, 2004 11:49 AM


Suppose, for a moment, that we in Britain faced a fascist insurgency, which kidnapped a few Jews and black people. Should we negotiate for their lives by releasing Neo-Nazi bombers and racist murderers? Or would we calculate how many more Jews and black people would, as a result, wind up in cellars with knives to their throats?
It is, I know, different for the families of kidnapped victims, whose most obvious responsibility is to their reletives. Evan so, and even at a terrible time like this, they should think about the conequences for others. It may be that Paul Bigley has calculated that the more severe he is about Tony Blair, the more likely he is to see his brother alive. I don't know. But if so he ought to be aware that his criticisms of the British Prime Minister for being inactive, and of the Americans for sabotaging any release, are not just unfair but dangerous. Had Dr Germ left jail, Zarqawi would have demanded that all the other women prisoners be released, prisoners denied by the the Iraqi authorities but estimated (on what basis, I don't know) in the hundreds by the pro-insurgent Association of Muslim Scholars.
And what would Blair have said to the kidnappers in a fax that Bigley wanted him to send? Dear Beheaders, spare our man where you have murdered so many others. He deserves to be killed less?" It is Zarqawi who holds Kenneth Bigley, Zarqawi who-leaning always to the side of death-has the power, Zarqawi who-unwanted by the Iraqi people-may deliver "the kiss of death" to his hotage.
We may not know their names yet, these victims of the future, but if we give in-if we fool ourselves into thinking there is a negotiation to be had-then other people's brothers will surely die.

Posted by: paul at September 28, 2004 12:37 PM

945 when i first heard about the Mr.Armstrong and the others being beheaded i was sick and thinking that these poor people new that they were we gonna die made me sad, even though i didn't know them. i feel for their families very much. May God bless them.

Posted by: CBuffalo at September 28, 2004 01:03 PM

946 Well, great news, I see that some hostages were released, including the two Italian women who were thought to have been beheaded. No word about Bigley...seems Zarquawi is using him as a pawn.

So many opinions, and no one is really all right or all wrong. We can argue until doomsday (which is closer than I think!) over whether or not Bush was right in going to Iraq, but we all should remember one thing:

when those planes slammed into the twin towers, the black box recorded voices saying "praise Allah"....whether or not it was Iraq, Iran, Afghan., it is ALLAH that is their God. One and the same people believing in the same god, Allah, under the same religion, whose feelings about us are all the same as well. They all hate us and should be dealt with swiftly.

Bush, get the troops out now. As the one commenter said previously, "it is God's place to judge these men. It's our job to arrange the meeting".

Posted by: Laura at September 28, 2004 01:14 PM

947 well said Laura,

Good for the Italians!!!
Still hope for Mr. Bigley,

have you even researced any of your facts on The Bush family? Put yourself in The President's would you have handled it all my friend? How would you have handled 9-11? Just curious

Posted by: madarmywife at September 28, 2004 01:49 PM

948 Italian hostages released post!!

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at September 28, 2004 02:11 PM


This discussion thread is now closed.

To continue the discussion, please go to the main page. Feel free to resume debate in the comments section of one of my more recent posts.

Go to the Main Page by CLICKING HERE

or go to

Updates on the hostage crisis in Iraq are made daily from the main page. For instance, on 9/28 Italian hostages Simona Pari and Simona Torretta were released. I also report on news that Zarqawi's website was hacked.

Thank you for all of your comments. Please feel free to e-mail me directly. You can find my e-mail from the main page

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford, Owner of this blog at September 28, 2004 02:53 PM

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