Ninth Circuit Appeals Court: If Hawaii Restricts Citizens' Ability to Carry Concealed, Then There Must Be An Absolute Right to Open Carry

Huge ruling.

Hawaii sharply limits who can carry concealed -- basically, only people who have jobs in security and law enforcement can carry concealed.

The Ninth Circuit -- not the whole Ninth Circuit, which is a leftwing clownshow, but two of the three judges selected randomly to review the lower court's ruling here -- rules that people have the right to carry firearms (quoting the Supreme Court's MacDonald decision), and if the right to carry concealed is restricted by a state, that must mean that the other method of carrying, open carry, is absolute.

The court rules that the "right to keep and bear arms" is actually two rights: to "keep" arms is about storing arms on physical property, but to bear arms is to carry arms on one's person.

And it rules that Hawaii may not leave citizens with no way of exercising this latter right.



Hawaii screwed itself here by, like so many other gun-grabbing states and local governments, creating a #FakeNews application process for getting a concealed carry license, but literally never granting such an application:



The majority opinion gets salty with the dissent:




Hawaii will certainly request en banc review, which is where every judge on the Ninth Circuit rehears the case and issues a group ruling. Obviously Hawaii will probably win that -- but then it's on to the Supreme Court.

Wrong? Anon Y. Mous says that the Ninth Circuit's en banc review is not performed by all judges, but just a lot more judges than the usual 3-judge panel.

Like, 11 judges? I don't know, "11 judges" sticks in my mind for some reason.

I'm not sure either way.

Update: Anon Y. Mous was right, and I was right about 11 judges, once Anon Y. Mous corrected me. From Wikipedia on "En banc:"

Federal law provides that for courts with more than 15 judges, an en banc hearing may consist of "such number of members of its en banc courts as may be prescribed by rule of the court of appeals."[4] The Ninth Circuit, with 29 judges, uses this procedure, and its en banc court consists of 11 judges. Theoretically, the Ninth Circuit can hear the case with all judges participating.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at 03:13 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 You know the gun grabbers are losing when they start losing the Ninth Circus.

Posted by: Bert G at July 24, 2018 03:15 PM (uiwCw)

2 Also, first. And second?

Posted by: Bert G at July 24, 2018 03:15 PM (uiwCw)

3 This makes my otherwise shitty day much better!

Posted by: Infidel at July 24, 2018 03:16 PM (XlKiI)

4 Dramamine will calm the dizzies from SO MUCH WINNING.

Posted by: Smashing the Golden Calf at July 24, 2018 03:17 PM (WPxnj)

5 woohooo, who knew Hawaii was the old west....

and could been first if hadn't read the content.

that'll teach me ...

Posted by: SturmToddler at July 24, 2018 03:18 PM (8D42x)

6 The dissenting judge has already called for an en banc review, which is where every judge on the Ninth Circuit rehears the case and issues a group ruling.

++++

I think you are mistaken about that. I seem to recall that for the Ninth, an en banc review does not involve all the judges. It is, rather, a bigger panel. They do have some way in theory to go for an all judge review, but in practice it never happens.

Something to do with how huge the Ninth is compared to the other circuits is why they just don't do the everyone in reviews.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 24, 2018 03:18 PM (KDpai)

7 Good.

Posted by: Grump928(c) the cyclops at July 24, 2018 03:19 PM (yQpMk)

8 So, will Hawaii now mandate that certain Hawaiian shirts must be worn while carrying?

Posted by: pookysgirl at July 24, 2018 03:19 PM (XKZwp)

9 Yeah you can really fuck up someone's day by doing the old if it's x than that means y applies.

I think Chesterton used to do that with his debating, to great effect.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:19 PM (4ErVI)

10 Hawaiian Judge hardest hit.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at July 24, 2018 03:19 PM (vg8iE)

11 Ho.Lee.Fuk. The Ninth Circus will never allow this to stand; TO THE SUPREMES! Baby, baby, where did my rights go?

Posted by: the Butcher at July 24, 2018 03:19 PM (DIosY)

12 >>>
I think you are mistaken about that. I seem to recall that for the Ninth, an en banc review does not involve all the judges. It is, rather, a bigger panel. They do have some way in theory to go for an all judge review, but in practice it never happens.

hmm, not sure, could be, but I'll note your comment.

Posted by: ace at July 24, 2018 03:19 PM (PA9oZ)

13 When does the Random Hawaiian Judge #6 overrule the 9th Circuit?

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at July 24, 2018 03:20 PM (UBzPO)

14 How are new Circuits created? We need a 12th Circuit, with the 9th restricted to just CA and HI.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 24, 2018 03:20 PM (ujg0T)

15 Guns are icky.

Posted by: Judge Don Ho Moe at July 24, 2018 03:21 PM (dXUok)

16 How are new Circuits created?
========

That would make us do some, you know, actual work, and we can't have that.

Posted by: Congress at July 24, 2018 03:21 PM (vg8iE)

17 I'm looking forward to Cuomo announcing that if the Supreme Court votes against the 9th that he will sue. Watching the governor of one of the biggest states in the country clown himself never gets old.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 24, 2018 03:21 PM (/tuJf)

18 Ho Ree Fuk...........

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 03:21 PM (JUOKG)

19 Overruled!

Posted by: Judge PuffaPuffaRice at July 24, 2018 03:22 PM (37IEG)

20 The Red State article mentions that the opinion cites to Dred Scott for the proposition that gun ownership is one of the indices of citizenship.

That's an absolutely epic troll.

Posted by: Sharkman at July 24, 2018 03:22 PM (BfOXk)

21 Yep,the "bear arms" part is one the left hates the most.

Posted by: steevy at July 24, 2018 03:22 PM (LiyEm)

22 Does the DISSENTING JUDGE have the ability to call an en blanc review, isn't that the Hawaiian County's attorney's job if wants to fight the appellate ruling.

Posted by: Scott T. at July 24, 2018 03:23 PM (xGZ+b)

23 Federal law provides that for courts with more than 15 judges, an en banc hearing may consist of "such number of members of its en banc courts as may be prescribed by rule of the court of appeals." The Ninth Circuit, with 29 judges, uses this procedure, and its en banc court consists of 11 judges. Theoretically, the Ninth Circuit can hear the case with all judges participating. In practice, however, such a hearing has only been requested rarely; the requests have all been denied. The Fifth Circuit, with 17 judges, also adopted a similar procedure in 1986. State of La. ex rel. Guste v. M/V TESTBANK, 752 F.2d 1019 (5th Cir. 1985) (en banc). The Sixth Circuit has 16 judges but as of September 2016 it has not yet adopted such a policy; en banc cases are generally heard by all 16 judges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_banc

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 24, 2018 03:23 PM (KDpai)

24 Importantly this also affects CA. Also if it stands it can be a precident in other circuits. NY ( and NYC in perticular), NJ, MD, etc will likely see suites soon.

Posted by: Matt Whitticar at July 24, 2018 03:23 PM (ooVVU)

25 Awesome.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at July 24, 2018 03:23 PM (wtvvX)

26 16 How are new Circuits created?
========

That would make us do some, you know, actual work, and we can't have that.
Posted by: Congress at July 24, 2018 03:21 PM (vg8iE)

--------

Well then, just eliminate the 9th Circuit. Easy peasy.

Posted by: cornbred at July 24, 2018 03:24 PM (GpwZp)

27 Volcano goddess very angry! You stop!

Posted by: Judge PuffaPuffaRice at July 24, 2018 03:24 PM (37IEG)

28 Sweet takedown. Absent the right to defend oneself, one is a Slave. Of course, I expect nothing less from the would-be Plantation Masters of the Left.



Collectivism == Slavery.

Posted by: ShainS at July 24, 2018 03:24 PM (TPROn)

29 anon y. mous, you are right. Circuit courts with more than 15 judges can specify an en banc review of a panel of less than the full court. In the Ninth Circuit's case, it's 11 judges.

Posted by: ace at July 24, 2018 03:24 PM (PA9oZ)

30 No one can tell me that the earthquakes we are witnessing in the judiciary and the legislative bodies are not attributable to PDT. He is a force of nature. YMMV.

Posted by: Jmel at July 24, 2018 03:25 PM (OeWgo)

31 Judge Kalikimaka is gonna be pissed.

Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 03:25 PM (HgMAr)

32 Well, I think it's great that Hawaii would only allow officers of the LAPD to carry firearms. Hell, they're not on the same continent with them.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:25 PM (Boy/L)

33 The Ninth Circuit has committed reversible error on several fronts, most notably by simply misreading the amendment. It doesn't say citizens have a right to bear arms, it says bears can arm themselves in defense of their personhood.

Duh.

Posted by: Sonia Sotomayor at July 24, 2018 03:25 PM (Ogr1j)

34 Do Hawaiian guns go:
Pew pew pew poi pew poi poi?

Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 03:26 PM (HgMAr)

35 "...and if the right to carry concealed is restricted by a state, that must mean that the other method of carrying, open carry, is absolute."

Drat. We would have gotten away with it too were it not for those meddling jurists.

Posted by: Hawaii at July 24, 2018 03:26 PM (6eEQ+)

36 I have bear arms.
Legs, too.

Posted by: Yogi at July 24, 2018 03:27 PM (wtvvX)

37 26 16 How are new Circuits created?
========

That would make us do some, you know, actual work, and we can't have that.
Posted by: Congress at July 24, 2018 03:21 PM (vg8iE)

--------

Well then, just eliminate the 9th Circuit. Easy peasy.
Posted by: cornbred at July 24, 2018 03:24 PM (GpwZp)



And create an *even larger* mega-district for the CA and HI judges to poop on? Nope, we need more Circuits. Like Federal Reserve Districts, their boundaries are archaic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_judicial_district

Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 24, 2018 03:27 PM (ujg0T)

38 No one can tell me that the earthquakes we are witnessing in the judiciary and the legislative bodies are not attributable to PDT. He is a force of nature. YMMV.

Posted by: Jmel at July 24, 2018 03:25 PM (OeWgo)
............

Hurricane Jefe

Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 03:27 PM (HgMAr)

39 >>>22 Does the DISSENTING JUDGE have the ability to call an en blanc review, isn't that the Hawaiian County's attorney's job if wants to fight the appellate ruling.


Um, that was a joke tweet, apparently, which I did not realize was a joke and I misinterpreted.

You're right, the dissenting judge has no such right. I didn't think he did, but there was this odd tweet saying that some judge had already called for an en banc review and I assumed it must have been the dissenting judge.

but it was all just a huge fuck-up by me.

Posted by: ace at July 24, 2018 03:28 PM (PA9oZ)

40 We have phony concealed carry where I live in CA. The sheriff just doesn't grant licenses unless you work armed security, or you gave lots of money to his reelection campaign. You could be MS-13's most wanted and still not get a CCW.

Hopefully SCOTUS will see things the same way as this panel.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:28 PM (h2Bdk)

41 I can't believe the 9th circuit issued this ruling. In truth, ALL gun control laws are unconstitutional and before the 30s just about any gun. Some people even owned canons.



My reply back to gun control advocates is "if you want gun control then you need to get the Constitution changed". and gun control does not mean gun confiscation.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 24, 2018 03:28 PM (mpXpK)

42 So hopefully it won't get to SCOTUS before Kavanaugh does, because he's apparently very good on 2A matters.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at July 24, 2018 03:28 PM (RD7QR)

43 "They should invite a bunch of Hawaiian federal judges to participate in the en banc hearing and ruling!" -- Constitutional Scholar Barry Soetoro

Posted by: ShainS at July 24, 2018 03:29 PM (TPROn)

44 So, with this ruling, can citizens begin open carrying immediately, or do they have to wait until all of the legal wrangling all the way up to SCOTUS is completed?

Posted by: Calm Mentor at July 24, 2018 03:29 PM (b3Pum)

45 I propose an en banc hearing, in my sweet sweet mouth.

Posted by: King Barky at July 24, 2018 03:29 PM (PA9oZ)

46 Oh, the remaining 9th Circuit homos will correct this travesty of non-living document Constitutional rhetoric, toot sweet. Hopefully, no criminal dies in the meantime before they bring right-think back to Hawaii.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at July 24, 2018 03:30 PM (9BLnV)

47 43
"They should invite a bunch of Hawaiian federal judges to participate in
the en banc hearing and ruling!" -- Constitutional Scholar Barry
Soetoro


Posted by: ShainS at July 24, 2018 03:29 PM (TPROn)

Or perhaps a collection of Wise Latina's just over the border. After they get out of the maternity ward of course.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at July 24, 2018 03:30 PM (37IEG)

48 "I did some blow..."

Posted by: King Barky at July 24, 2018 03:30 PM (PA9oZ)

49 Hawaiian Judge hardest hit.

How about a nice Hawaiian punch?

Posted by: clutch cargo at July 24, 2018 03:31 PM (RHEDC)

50 42 So hopefully it won't get to SCOTUS before Kavanaugh does, because he's apparently very good on 2A matters.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at July 24, 2018 03:28 PM (RD7QR)

It won't. He'll be on the court by next term and it probably wouldn't even get taken up then but probably the next term after that.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:31 PM (4ErVI)

51 "This will kill Hawaii's tourism industry" in 3...2...1....

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:31 PM (Boy/L)

52 margins at 37

Posted by: concrete girl at July 24, 2018 03:31 PM (BVthB)

53 8 So, will Hawaii now mandate that certain Hawaiian shirts must be worn while carrying?
Posted by: pookysgirl at July 24, 2018 03:19 PM (XKZwp)

Yes, probably the really ugly ones, plus you've got to sing Don Ho songs the whole time you're carrying.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at July 24, 2018 03:31 PM (RD7QR)

54 I don't know what the big deal is, I have bare arms every day at work. Well, short sleeves anyway.

Posted by: Bonecrusher at July 24, 2018 03:31 PM (JNTt1)

55 Did somebody say "arms"?

Posted by: Inspector Krogh at July 24, 2018 03:31 PM (HgMAr)

56 Damn it! If only Hillary had won, her new Supreme Court appointees could have used this as a pretext to all-but-officially repeal the Second Amendment.
Instead you goddamn deplorable hicks are going to keep embarrassing me with your "hurr durr muh gunz!!!" crap.

Posted by: Never-Trump True Conservative at July 24, 2018 03:32 PM (lws8M)

57 44 So, with this ruling, can citizens begin open carrying immediately, or do they have to wait until all of the legal wrangling all the way up to SCOTUS is completed?
Posted by: Calm Mentor at July 24, 2018 03:29 PM (b3Pum)
-----
Why couldn't they arbitrarily apply the ruling nationwide like the lib judges do.

Posted by: WisRich at July 24, 2018 03:32 PM (G0vdT)

58 He is a force of nature. YMMV.

Posted by: Jmel at July 24, 2018 03:25 PM (OeWgo)
............

Hurricane Jefe
Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 03:27 PM (HgMAr)

________

He's a 9.8 on the Richter Scale!!

Posted by: kathysaysso at July 24, 2018 03:32 PM (vkS2Z)

59 Ace's liver: "The sheriff just doesn't grant licenses unless you work armed security, or you gave lots of money to his reelection campaign."

So extortion? Seems like a readily prosecutable case to me. Venn diagram political donations, licenses granted, and licenses rejected.

Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at July 24, 2018 03:32 PM (6eEQ+)

60 Rather ironic, that the crowd wanting abortion rights for a woman to choose what is right for her body, are the crowd demanding that master, big govt decide how a woman can defend her body

Posted by: steve at July 24, 2018 03:33 PM (K5HIi)

61 IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE ARMS MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS AND SO DOES BEAR

Posted by: REN BOTHLISBERGER'S GAY UNCLE at July 24, 2018 03:33 PM (PA9oZ)

62 Did somebody say "arms"?

Speaking of this + how much we messed up the Japanese with WWII and all...

Japanese ad agencies are now selling advertising space in...wait for it...girl's armpits.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:33 PM (Boy/L)

63 Should turn Leftists arguments on their heads

Posted by: Skip at July 24, 2018 03:34 PM (pHfeF)

64 Importantly this also affects CA. Also if it stands it can be a precident in other circuits. NY ( and NYC in perticular), NJ, MD, etc will likely see suites soon.
Posted by: Matt Whitticar at July 24, 2018 03:23 PM (ooVVU)

I believe per Hawaiian judge precedent, it applies everywhere, for all eternity until the sun grows cold.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at July 24, 2018 03:34 PM (J70i0)

65 61
IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE ARMS MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS AND SO DOES BEAR

Posted by: REN BOTHLISBERGER'S GAY UNCLE at July 24, 2018 03:33 PM (PA9oZ)

Mary had a little lamb,She also had a bear.I've often seen her little lamb,I've never seen her bear.

Posted by: John Podcasta at July 24, 2018 03:35 PM (37IEG)

66 I believe per Hawaiian judge precedent, it applies everywhere, for all eternity until the sun grows cold.

And if you don't think so you are Hitler and want to ban contraception.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:35 PM (Boy/L)

67 40 We have phony concealed carry where I live in CA. The sheriff just doesn't grant licenses unless you work armed security, or you gave lots of money to his reelection campaign. You could be MS-13's most wanted and still not get a CCW.

Hopefully SCOTUS will see things the same way as this panel.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:28 PM (h2Bdk)

++++

I think that's very true in the urban counties along the coast. But, the more rural, inland counties are different with many of the sheriffs behaving more reasonably. As long as you are a law-abiding citizen, they will issue the permit.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 24, 2018 03:35 PM (KDpai)

68 Rather ironic, that the crowd wanting abortion rights for a woman to choose what is right for her body, are the crowd demanding that master, big govt decide how a woman can defend her body
========

Don't forget gay conversion therapy!

Posted by: That Same Crowd at July 24, 2018 03:36 PM (vg8iE)

69 Unless this dangerous precedent is reversed, wild-eyed gunmen might shoot a hole in Hawaii and sink it.

Posted by: Hank Johnson (D. - Guamland) at July 24, 2018 03:36 PM (oENGE)

70 The 9th Circuit en banc process is 11 judges, made up of the chief Judge (a Clinton appointee) and 10 other active (e.g. not senior status) judges drawn at random.

The author of the opinion is a senior status judge, as is the dissenter, so they are both out. The other judge in the majority is an active judge appointed by G.W. Bush. That judge may or may not be on any en banc panel.

Practically speaking, though, the en banc panel (assuming one is granted) is likely to include a majority of Democratic appointees given the tilt of that court (at present the active judges are 16 democratic appointees (including the Chief Judge) and 7 republican appointees).

Posted by: Stephen at July 24, 2018 03:36 PM (i/4lz)

71 Japanese ad agencies are now selling advertising space in...wait for it...girl's armpits.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:33 PM (Boy/L)

Gotta be fallout from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those Japanese have the weirdest culture.

Posted by: kathysaysso at July 24, 2018 03:37 PM (vkS2Z)

72 So, with this ruling, can citizens begin open carrying immediately, or do they have to wait until all of the legal wrangling all the way up to SCOTUS is completed?
Posted by: Calm Mentor

-----

Why couldn't they arbitrarily apply the ruling nationwide like the lib judges do.
Posted by: WisRich


Because it's not needed nationally. Something like 47 out of 50 states have some form of carry. Be it concealed, open, or both.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 03:37 PM (7/YOc)

73 If Hawaii has such strict gun laws, why does it have a problem with 'gun violence?'

Get Steve McGarrett on this.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 24, 2018 03:37 PM (oVJmc)

74 Has Hogg Boy commented yet? can he get louder than all caps?

Posted by: Northernlurker, but call me Teem at July 24, 2018 03:38 PM (nBr1j)

75 If everybody's gonna carry, I hope they all shoot some rats.

Posted by: Rahm Emmanuel at July 24, 2018 03:38 PM (HiLJ1)

76 OMG-- folks in Hawaii and California might actually have constitutional rights, we won't have to move to the US.

Posted by: You're in hell, the world ended at at July 24, 2018 03:38 PM (NmR1a)

77 Obviously really fat chicks should have to conceal their arms.

Posted by: Inspector Krogh at July 24, 2018 03:38 PM (HgMAr)

78 Why doesn't Hawaii judge just rule that 9th Circuit is invalid?

Posted by: blaster at July 24, 2018 03:39 PM (vM/v3)

79 Can't trust a bunch of crazy ass coconuts with guns.

Posted by: Roland THTG at July 24, 2018 03:39 PM (xBSm0)

80 I keep hoping these cases make it to the Supreme Being's court, give the Wise Latina a crack at it.

Posted by: Skip at July 24, 2018 03:39 PM (pHfeF)

81 If Hawaii has such strict gun laws, why does it have a problem with 'gun violence?'

Get Steve McGarrett on this.


McGarrett had the first truly cool shoulder holster in television history.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:39 PM (Boy/L)

82 As for who can call for en banc review, I believe it is the losing party or any active judge in the Circuit. Assuming someone calls/requests en banc review, a vote of all the active judges (and maybe the senior judges on the panel that made the decision, some circuits allow them to participate in en banc review, I don't know about the 9th's procedure) will take place in secret, and if a majority request en banc review then en banc review it is.

If the en banc vote fails then today's decision stands and binds on all jurisdictions within the 9th Circuit.

Posted by: Stephen at July 24, 2018 03:39 PM (i/4lz)

83 Japanese ad agencies are now selling advertising space in...wait for it...girl's armpits.

So now we get cute Japanese girls deplaning in Hawaii with Glocks in their armpits?

Posted by: JEM at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (VBk81)

84 See!


Bear Arms are protected.... just not mine...

Posted by: Michelle Fields... at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (NgKpN)

85 So extortion? Seems like a readily prosecutable case to me. Venn diagram political donations, licenses granted, and licenses rejected.
Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at July 24, 2018 03:32 PM (6eEQ+)


You would think so, but that's actually pretty common here in CA and I've never heard of anyone getting into trouble. I guess the problem is proving the quid pro quo - it's pretty obvious making contributions helps your case just by looking at the numbers, but I assume you'd never be able to get a sheriff laying things out on tape.

Maybe it's just an expected level of corruption. California has, as they say, the best legislature money can buy, and the fish rots from the head.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (h2Bdk)

86 So tell me, in NJ where a pellet gun in my closet could get one 3 years in state prison for violation of The Graves Act, how this is a victory.

Posted by: BluesFish at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (09/JH)

87
Has Hogg Boy commented yet? can he get louder than all caps?

Posted by: Northernlurker, but call me Teem at July 24, 2018 03:38 PM (nBr1j)



YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY ANGRY RED FACE! OR MY BALLED UP FISTS OF RAGE!!!!!

Posted by: Attention Piglet at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (ptqGC)

88 There was another 9th circuit appeals review that smacked down the CA 'high capacity' magazine ban in June.

Ninth Circuit Panel Upholds Ruling Against California 'High Capacity' Magazine Ban

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (Vk34r)

89 69
Unless this dangerous precedent is reversed, wild-eyed gunmen might shoot a hole in Hawaii and sink it.

Posted by: Hank Johnson

Thread Winner!

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 03:41 PM (9Smxp)

90 Book 'em, Dan-O.

Posted by: Steve McGarrett at July 24, 2018 03:41 PM (HgMAr)

91 So how do we make it mandatory for everyone of legal age to open carry.

Everyone has a responsibility to make spaces safe.

Don't want to carry? You're going to have to pay a mandate of 1-3% of your income. It increases every year you refuse to meet the mandate.

We will call this mandate the Shared Responsibility Tax! Justice Roberts approves!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:41 PM (4ErVI)

92 I think that's very true in the urban counties along the coast. But, the more rural, inland counties are different with many of the sheriffs behaving more reasonably. As long as you are a law-abiding citizen, they will issue the permit.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 24, 2018 03:35 PM (KDpai)


Yes, it's definitely a county-by-county thing. Sadly, the counties where you'll have trouble getting a permit are the ones where all the jobs are, at least for my industry.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (h2Bdk)

93 Now, if the Senate would bet off of their dead asses...

On 12/7/17, The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act passed 231-198 in the GOP-controlled House, with six Democrats voting in support.

And so it went to die in the Senate. It's buried 'in committee' there. And gee, wouldn't that make a wonderful talking point if dickheads like Menendez in NJ voted No? His Repub challenger there has a fair chance to win.

Posted by: GnuBreed at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (0ogQG)

94 Skimming through the ruling, and grated this will be my nit-a-lawyer interpretation....

If you live some place that simply does not issue permits such as NYC, NJ, many countis in CA, etc. then it is a deface ban and allowing open carry is the only remedy. This would be easy to prove in a lot if places.

Posted by: Matt Whitticar at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (ooVVU)

95
I have realized I don't know crap about these circuit courts. 29 judges?, I figured it was the standard 9.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (r+sAi)

96 Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:41 PM (4ErVI)

There are people I know that should not have a bicycle license, let alone be required to open carry.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Expand Your Rage with A Doofenschmirz Anger-inator from the Outrage Outlet! at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

97 :::74 Has Hogg Boy commented yet? can he get louder than all caps?:::

Don't make me get bold with you. You won't like me when I'm bold.

Posted by: Mantis head at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (dXUok)

98 I'm willing to pay for a water bike for Hogg Boy to pedal to Hawaii.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (ptqGC)

99 All gun control laws both federal and state are largely unconstitutional.


There is no attenuation to be found in the constitution or anywhere really of the "right to keep and bear arms"


So literally every law or restriction is just as illigitimate and conjured from emenations and pnumbras as abortion.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (2JcMg)

100 Can i shoot coconuts off trees? cause that would be really cool.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (Zmczq)

101 er, *get off* their dead asses. Not bet off.

Posted by: GnuBreed at July 24, 2018 03:43 PM (0ogQG)

102 The 9th Circus will ahve to import a few Hawaiian judges I think

Posted by: Anna Puma (HQCaR) at July 24, 2018 03:43 PM (smCLJ)

103 There are people I know that should not have a bicycle license, let alone be required to open carry.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Expand Your Rage with A Doofenschmirz Anger-inator from the Outrage Outlet! at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

Oh sure. Those are the ones who get guns with reverse barrels.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:43 PM (4ErVI)

104 Others have pointed out that if Hawaii decides to move to the en banc panel, they risk the decision moving up to SCOTUS with a newly appointed Kavanaugh.

Are they willing to see SCOTUS crush all 'may issue' statues across the land?

Sound like a gamble.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 24, 2018 03:43 PM (Vk34r)

105 So tell me, in NJ where a pellet gun in my closet could get one 3 years in state prison for violation of The Graves Act, how this is a victory.
Posted by: BluesFish at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (09/JH)

-------------

If allowed to stand, it serves as legal precedent for future challenges in your District. Particularly so if it gets run all the way up to SCOTUS and wins.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at July 24, 2018 03:44 PM (b3Pum)

106 86 So tell me, in NJ where a pellet gun in my closet could get one 3 years in state prison for violation of The Graves Act, how this is a victory.
Posted by: BluesFish at July 24, 2018 03:40 PM (09/JH)


I don't think the constitution applies in New Jersey.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:44 PM (h2Bdk)

107 Can I just say how disappointed I am that I missed PDT/NORK thread?


I can hear PDT's balls clanging from here.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2018 03:44 PM (ptqGC)

108 91 So how do we make it mandatory for everyone of legal age to open carry.

Everyone has a responsibility to make spaces safe.

Don't want to carry? You're going to have to pay a mandate of 1-3% of your income. It increases every year you refuse to meet the mandate.

We will call this mandate the Shared Responsibility Tax! Justice Roberts approves!
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:41 PM (4ErVI)

Everyone carrying?


Not a good idea IMO... WAY too many idiots out there.

Posted by: Don Q at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM (NgKpN)

109 Oh sure. Those are the ones who get guns with reverse barrels.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:43 PM (4ErVI)

So Pollocks then.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM (Zmczq)

110 en banc = overturn

Posted by: MAC SOG and nothing will happen at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM (czkHE)

111 Jane D'oh said "balls."

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM (Boy/L)

112 108 91 So how do we make it mandatory for everyone of legal age to open carry.

Everyone has a responsibility to make spaces safe.

Don't want to carry? You're going to have to pay a mandate of 1-3% of your income. It increases every year you refuse to meet the mandate.

We will call this mandate the Shared Responsibility Tax! Justice Roberts approves!
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:41 PM (4ErVI)

Everyone carrying?


Not a good idea IMO... WAY too many idiots out there.
Posted by: Don Q at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM (NgKpN)

If it weren't for innocent bystanders I'd call it a self-solving problem.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at July 24, 2018 03:46 PM (RD7QR)

113 94 Skimming through the ruling, and grated this will be my nit-a-lawyer interpretation....

If you live some place that simply does not issue permits such as NYC, NJ, many countis in CA, etc. then it is a deface ban and allowing open carry is the only remedy. This would be easy to prove in a lot if places.
Posted by: Matt Whitticar at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (ooVVU)


I wonder how many you have to issue before it's no longer a de facto ban. If Hawaii had issued a single permit, would the decision have gone the other way?

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:47 PM (h2Bdk)

114 Gotta be fallout from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those Japanese have the weirdest culture.

Posted by: kathysaysso at July 24, 2018 03:37 PM (vkS2Z)

There's weird, then there's Japan Weird. And it is never in a way you expect. For example, this high-tech society frequently uses fax machines and carbon paper credit-card readers.

Posted by: pookysgirl at July 24, 2018 03:47 PM (XKZwp)

115 Really best way to avoid weapons charges, from pointy sticks to a semi auto carbine is move out of the People's republic of New Jersy

Posted by: Skip at July 24, 2018 03:47 PM (pHfeF)

116 99 All gun control laws both federal and state are largely unconstitutional.


There is no attenuation to be found in the constitution or anywhere really of the "right to keep and bear arms"


So literally every law or restriction is just as illigitimate and conjured from emenations and pnumbras as abortion.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (2JcMg)

You have to register handguns in my city and I live in a red state.

We've got vibrancy you know.

Totally illegal and I got pissed when I found a local forum about it and someone moving into the city found out about the registration and said you know that's not constitutional and other people on the boards immediately jumped on him for it.

WELL THAT'S THE LAW HERE FELLAH THAT'S HOW WE DO THINGS HERE MISTER.

Bunch of fucking cucks. Embrace your enslavement you fags.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:48 PM (4ErVI)

117 So, if a Hawaiian judge ruled this, it applies to all 50 states?

Posted by: Roy at July 24, 2018 03:48 PM (7n4KQ)

118 109 Oh sure. Those are the ones who get guns with reverse barrels.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:43 PM (4ErVI)

So Pollocks then.
Posted by: Cannibal Bob at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM (Zmczq)


What would a pollock do with a gun? They're still having trouble with bicycles.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:48 PM (h2Bdk)

119
What would a pollock do with a gun? They're still having trouble with bicycles.


They carry guns just for the halibut.

Posted by: Roy at July 24, 2018 03:49 PM (7n4KQ)

120 117 I think to Leftists it does but not sure legally how it works.

Posted by: Skip at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (pHfeF)

121 That's really cute - never, ever granting one permit.
Jerks.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (W+vEI)

122 115 Really best way to avoid weapons charges, from pointy sticks to a semi auto carbine is move out of the People's republic of New Jersy
Posted by: Skip at July 24, 2018 03:47 PM (pHfeF)


And don't drive through it. The most heartbreaking stories are the people from, say, Florida, who bought a flintlock in Vermont, were driving through NJ on the way home and are now looking at spending a few decades in jail.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (h2Bdk)

123 First they come for your guns, then they come for your plate lunch with Spam.

Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (HgMAr)

124 Like guns and boobs, fish puns are a sign that a thread is getting settled in.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (RD7QR)

125 SO how is it that CA just passed a gun restriction that requires technology that doesn't exist?

Sounds a lot like a licensing process that leads to no person ever actually receiving a license from the county.

It's all just a game to them.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 24, 2018 03:52 PM (W+vEI)

126 Like guns and boobs, fish puns are a sign that a thread is getting settled in.

Returning to the universal thread spawning grounds, as it were.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:52 PM (Boy/L)

127 And don't drive through it. The most heartbreaking
stories are the people from, say, Florida, who bought a flintlock in
Vermont, were driving through NJ on the way home and are now looking at
spending a few decades in
jail.
Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (h2Bdk)


Gotta make up for people fleeing the state in one way or another.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 03:52 PM (37IEG)

128 123 First they come for your guns, then they come for your plate lunch with Spam.
Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (HgMAr)


If ever there was something that moved Hawaiians to take to the streets...

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:52 PM (h2Bdk)

129 SO how is it that CA just passed a gun restriction that requires technology that doesn't exist?

Because a crony of some member of the state assembly will get a contract to develop it.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:53 PM (Boy/L)

130 This ruling makes sense.

I think the 9th Circuit might be a bit circumspect overruling. Once Brett Kavanaugh is seated there would be a much stronger ruling than Heller to overcome if the Supremes are forced to Bench Slap the 9th again.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at July 24, 2018 03:53 PM (6Xj3Y)

131 I remember someone here from Jersey posting how much they paid in property tax on their house.

Jesus!

Mine was like a fifth or sixth of what they were paying.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:54 PM (4ErVI)

132 Going to try a 20 minute nap

Posted by: Skip at July 24, 2018 03:54 PM (pHfeF)

133 SO how is it that CA just passed a gun restriction that requires technology that doesn't exist?

Because a crony of some member of the state assembly will get a contract to develop it.
Posted by: Circa


Not for micro-stamping they won't.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 03:55 PM (7/YOc)

134 @127
Yeah, but it doesn't work that way. Congress passed a law allowing safe transport of fire arms. You just can not stay there, got to keep moving.

http://tinyurl.com/yaepvepg

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 03:55 PM (9Smxp)

135 And don't drive through it. The most heartbreaking stories are the people from, say, Florida, who bought a flintlock in Vermont, were driving through NJ on the way home and are now looking at spending a few decades in


Yup

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y7y885z4

Posted by: random lurker commenter at July 24, 2018 03:56 PM (57plp)

136 And don't drive through it. The most heartbreaking stories are the people from, say, Florida, who bought a flintlock in Vermont, were driving through NJ on the way home and are now looking at spending a few decades in jail.
Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:50 PM (h2Bdk)

If you know your route takes you through NJ, the officials there are generally very forgiving. But, like anything involving the gov't anywhere (taxes especially...):

YOU have to be the one to call THEM first.

I forget which office it is, but there is a division of the NJ state government you can call if you're from out of state, and basically say "Hey, I'm going to need to travel through your state with some firearms. What do you need me to do?" And they generate a temporary "permit" you can show the police if you get stopped, and they tell you what you have to do to store them, like locking them up or disassembling them or whatever, and you're good to go.

I've never done this myself, but I know several who have. It's even easier if you have a FFL license.
Again, if you are the one to make the first move, they won't give you too much of a hassle. But if you just waltz into NJ state territory with a firearm, they'll bring the hammer down on you, as we are all aware.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 24, 2018 03:56 PM (AURKQ)

137 Japanese ad agencies are now selling advertising space in...wait for it...girl's armpits.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 03:33 PM (Boy/L)



Gotta be fallout from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those Japanese have the weirdest culture.


Posted by: kathysaysso at July 24, 2018 03:37 PM

---

Did you know that the only man to be Nuked twice lived to be 93 years old?

Yamaguchi Tsutomu is the only man confirmed to have been a victim of both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki Nuclear Blasts. Born in 1919 he lived to be 93 years old dying in 2010 of stomach cancer.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 03:56 PM (JUOKG)

138 133 SO how is it that CA just passed a gun restriction that requires technology that doesn't exist?

Because a crony of some member of the state assembly will get a contract to develop it.
Posted by: Circa


Not for micro-stamping they won't.
Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 03:55 PM (7/YOc)


Oh, they'll probably end up with something, and every round you buy will cost $5, but after all that's the point.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 03:57 PM (h2Bdk)

139 134
@127
Yeah, but it doesn't work that way. Congress passed a law
allowing safe transport of fire arms. You just can not stay there, got
to keep moving.

http://tinyurl.com/yaepvepg

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 03:55 PM (9Smxp)
Ah, the driving through hell law - "when you're driving through hell, don't stop".

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 03:57 PM (37IEG)

140 Sounds a lot like a licensing process that leads to no person ever actually receiving a license from the county.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 24, 2018 03:52 PM (W+vEI)


It's what we should have done to "couples" seeking a license for a same-sex marriage.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara, now with an added spark of divinity at July 24, 2018 03:57 PM (YqDXo)

141 Everyone carrying?





Not a good idea IMO... WAY too many idiots out there.



Posted by: Don Q at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM

---

That sort of thing generally sorts itself out fairly quickly.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 03:57 PM (JUOKG)

142 I like the part about "might find virtue in a firearms-carry regime that restricts the right to a privileged few"

Nothing like wanting serfdom and titles of nobility to return to America.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 03:58 PM (qC1Sy)

143 Yeah, remember when the Supremes decided Heller, and gun rights were declared sacrosanct?

Wake me when Congress passes a national open carry law.

Posted by: trev006 at July 24, 2018 03:58 PM (LBkA5)

144 Yup



https://preview.tinyurl.com/y7y885z4

Posted by: random lurker commenter at July 24, 2018 03:56 PM (57plp)

Those charges were dropped.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 24, 2018 03:58 PM (wYseH)

145 Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 24, 2018 03:56 PM (AURKQ)

The permit probably costs $5000.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:58 PM (4ErVI)

146 SO how is it that CA just passed a gun restriction that requires technology that doesn't exist?

--------------------

Because lawmakers are now clueless. They probably just borrowed some template from an ignorant anti-gun group. Many conservative legislators do the same sort of thing - just mindlessly copy text from ALEC.

Posted by: Undocumented at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (5NMZN)

147 Boston Globe says Trump is trying to load the courts with his type of people. Which isn't right! Oh the humanity of it all.

Posted by: Colin at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (OlSD6)

148 Moms Demand Action in a tizzy over "downloadable guns."

https://tinyurl.com/y7q64ull


First, they came for my 3-D printer, and I said nothing.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (ptqGC)

149 And open carry while nice leads to other problems such as causing undue alarm which can potentially lead to deadly consequences and there is also outright swatting.


Concealed carry is the only way to carry with both safety for the general population and more importantly the carrier.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (2JcMg)

150 141 Everyone carrying?
Not a good idea IMO... WAY too many idiots out there.
Posted by: Don Q at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM

-----------------

AZ had had open carry since before it was a state. Seems to work out fine for them. Though, not everyone carries, but, they do have that right.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (qC1Sy)

151 And then this case goes to the Supreme Court, and due to Ginshit and Sotoshit keeling over, the yuge 7-2 Trump majority, rules all gun laws are subject to strict scrutiny and rules the 1934 act and subsequent gun control laws are unconstitutional-- even though those laws weren't in question in the case.

Why?

Because fuck the left, they said.

Posted by: RoyalOil, Vicroy Canadian Territories at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (TN1P5)

152 Update: Anon Y. Mous was right, and I was right about 11 judges, once Anon Y. Mous corrected me."

I'm right about just about everything, once someone corrects me.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (k1TUh)

153 The permit probably costs $5000.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 24, 2018 03:58 PM (4ErVI)

You'd think. But if i'm not mistaken, there's no fee at all. I don't have all the details, and was honestly just hoping another mid-atlantic Moron would jump in with more info....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 24, 2018 04:01 PM (AURKQ)

154 Going to try a 20 minute nap

Posted by: Skip at July 24, 2018 03:54 PM (pHfeF)
.............

I'm going to try another cyclobenzaprine at 3:00.

Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 04:01 PM (HgMAr)

155 Driving through hell gun rules.


http://tinyurl.com/gq7f94w

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:01 PM (9Smxp)

156 111 Jane D'oh said "balls."

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)
-----

*blink blink*
*blink blink*

Posted by: NALNAMSAM - not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine at July 24, 2018 04:01 PM (mfjYD)

157 In checking on an artist's Twitter feed, I saw that "International Self Care Day" was trending right next to "National Tequila Day."

Well, I know what I'm doing tonight: celebrating two holidays at once!

Posted by: pookysgirl at July 24, 2018 04:01 PM (XKZwp)

158
I'm gonna try a two-fer Tuesday whiskey shot.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (r+sAi)

159 SO how is it that CA just passed a gun restriction that requires technology that doesn't exist?

--------------------

Because lawmakers are now clueless. They probably just borrowed some template from an ignorant anti-gun group. Many conservative legislators do the same sort of thing - just mindlessly copy text from ALEC.
Posted by: Undocumented


They want a gun, at firing, to micro-stamp a bullet so they will be able to identify the supposed shooter.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (7/YOc)

160 149 And open carry while nice leads to other problems such as causing undue alarm which can potentially lead to deadly consequences and there is also outright swatting.


Concealed carry is the only way to carry with both safety for the general population and more importantly the carrier.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (2JcMg)

-------------

Open carry does not cause "undue panic." Again, see AZ. The only people who have a problem with open carry are the same kind of people who freak out over the idea of individual liberty.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (qC1Sy)

161 Those charges were dropped.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 24, 2018 03:58 PM (wYseH)


He's not the only one. They backed down because of the publicity. The people who didn't get enough publicity are still guests of the state.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (h2Bdk)

162 Well, I know what I'm doing tonight: celebrating two holidays at once!
Posted by: pookysgirl at July 24, 2018 04:01 PM (XKZwp)

If you really want to take care of yourself, make it a double.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (AURKQ)

163 Everyone carrying?

Not a good idea IMO... WAY too many idiots out there.

Posted by: Don Q at July 24, 2018 03:45 PM



-----------------



AZ had had open carry since before it was a state. Seems to work out
fine for them. Though, not everyone carries, but, they do have that
right.


Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM

---

Hasn't caused a single problem in Kentucky either. You don't even need a permit to open carry in KY if you are a resident.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (JUOKG)

164 82 "If the en banc vote fails then today's decision stands and binds on all jurisdictions within the 9th Circuit. "

I'm assuming California and Hawaii will try to get an injunction from their favorite judges as the case is appealed to SCOTUS.

Posted by: You're in hell, the world ended at at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (NmR1a)

165 One other point about today's opinion. The author is a Reagan appointee on senior status. He has a very good reputation among the Supreme Court Justices. A lot of his dissents have been adopted by the Supreme Court as majority opinions when the Supreme Court reverses the 9th Circuit. So even if an en banc panel screws this up, having his majority ruling today as part of the case record is helpful if the Supreme Court winds up taking the case.

Posted by: Stephen at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (i/4lz)

166 Open carry works fine in PA.

Posted by: EPA sign at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (zObQ4)

167

EM TOOTSIE ROLL FOADDY-FI!!!

Posted by: Maxine Waters' Hair at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (mPeei)

168 Whoa. For the first time in living memory, a funny joke on the Colbert show:

https://tinyurl.com/y97clhnq

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (AzW6q)

169 Gun Thread?

Posted by: Weasel at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (MVjcR)

170 Note in the rules, no need to give notice. Don't tell an officer shit and there is no "temporary" permit.

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (9Smxp)

171 Open carry does not cause "undue panic." Again, see AZ. The only people who have a problem with open carry are the same kind of people who freak out over the idea of individual liberty.
Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (qC1Sy)


I'm not a fan of open carry. Imagine two guys get into a shouting match, and they're both carrying. One guy reaches for his handkerchief to mop his brow, the other guy thinks he's reaching for the gun...

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (h2Bdk)

172 There are people I know that should not have a bicycle license, let alone be required to open carry.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Expand Your Rage with A Doofenschmirz Anger-inator from the Outrage Outlet! at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (hLRSq)


What is a bicycle license ?

Posted by: dDan at July 24, 2018 04:05 PM (hwYmz)

173 This Court hereby finds that the en banc review will reverse the facially invalid three-judge panel decision and, therefore, the en banc review is not necessary; no appeals of this decision to the US Supreme Court will be allowed per Secret Hawaiian Judge Amendments to the US Constitution; and this decision applies nationally. SO ORDERED.

Posted by: Hawaiian Judge at July 24, 2018 04:05 PM (XcgmW)

174 They want a gun, at firing, to micro-stamp a bullet so they will be able to identify the supposed shooter.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (7/YOc)

-----------------------
That will be OK until the Russians hack our guns and they all have "phuck you" stamped on them.

Posted by: Undocumented at July 24, 2018 04:05 PM (5NMZN)

175
I'm not a fan of open carry. Imagine two guys get into a shouting match, and they're both carrying. One guy reaches for his handkerchief to mop his brow, the other guy thinks he's reaching for the gun...
Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (h2Bdk)

-------------

Strawman. Again, AZ has had open carry for over a century and these problems don't exist, otherwise MSM would scream about it constantly.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:06 PM (qC1Sy)

176 174 They want a gun, at firing, to micro-stamp a bullet so they will be able to identify the supposed shooter.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (7/YOc)


Do you know how that affects reloaders? Would that make casting your own bullets illegal?

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (h2Bdk)

177 For the first time in living memory, a funny joke on the Colbert show:

I'll take things I'm never gonna click under any circumstances including testicular torture for a bazillion dollars, Alex.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (Boy/L)

178 So do I understand correctly that even if the 9th goes En Banc and reverses the decision, the Supreme court views it as a conflicting decision eligible to be taken up by Supreme court even if both decisions come from one appeals court on the same case?

Is that what your telling me?

Posted by: WisRich at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (G0vdT)

179 Strawman. Again, AZ has had open carry for over a century and these problems don't exist, otherwise MSM would scream about it constantly.
Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:06 PM (qC1Sy)


Well, it works for the most part because people don't actually carry. I've been through AZ lots of times and never saw anybody with a gun.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (h2Bdk)

180 Don't most of the states allow open handgun carry? And long-gun carry for that matter?

Posted by: Undocumented at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (5NMZN)

181 168 Whoa. For the first time in living memory, a funny joke on the Colbert show:

https://tinyurl.com/y97clhnq
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM (AzW6q)

Not gonna click, could be porn.

Posted by: josephistan at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (7HtZB)

182 SO ORDERED.

Posted by: Hawaiian Judge at July 24, 2018 04:05 PM (XcgmW)
...........

You forgot to say: "Pau hana, bra. Fuckin' Haoles."

Posted by: wth at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (HgMAr)

183 The Dems are searching high and low for the scoop on Brett Kavanaugh.
Did you know back in Kindergarten he once.......you fill in the charge and it will be a headline tonight, and the lead story on CNN.

Posted by: Colin at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (OlSD6)

184 The Maxine Waters Hair comments get me every time. I have to shout it out when I read them. Thank you, for whoever is posting those!

Posted by: Heart at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (LIhNq)

185 Nude pits.

Posted by: Grump928(c) the cyclops at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (yQpMk)

186 Also, open carry attracts thugs that will mug you for your weapon. Safer to Conceal
Posted by: Kemp


How would you like a brief wind to blow open your jacket an you get a ten year jail stint for failure to conceal?

Don't laugh. Texas was that asinine.
I'll take both options and conceal 90% of the time.
That other 10% is nice to not have to worry about.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (7/YOc)

187 Oh, right, forgot about the "levels of scrutiny" part of the constitution.


Oh, hold that - that's right there *IS* no "levels of scrutiny" part of the constitution.


Layman's translation: levels of scrutiny are a made-up matrix applied to allow courts to amend and/or repeal parts of the constitution they don't like. Without, you know, actually going through the process of amending or repealing provisions of the constitution.

Posted by: rhomboid at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (QDnY+)

188 While browsing the other day, I came across this book that purports that the second amendment is misunderstood. It was not the recognition of a right to arm oneself but rather the government's first attempt at gun control.

A Well-Regulated Militia
The Founding Fathers and the Origins of Gun Control in America

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 24, 2018 04:08 PM (+y/Ru)

189 I'll take things I'm never gonna click under any circumstances including testicular torture for a bazillion dollars, Alex.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (Boy/L)

-----

Just being sarcastic. Eric Holder announced he's thinking of a 2020 run.

It got me laughing.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (AzW6q)

190 125 "SO how is it that CA just passed a gun restriction that requires technology that doesn't exist? ..."

They actually passed it several years ago, but it was in the news recently because the suit challenging it finally made it to the California Supreme Court, where it was upheld.

I think the folks behind the challenge are appealing it.

Posted by: You're in hell, the world ended at at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (xGZ+b)

191 They want a gun, at firing, to micro-stamp a bullet so they will be able to identify the supposed shooter.

I'm sure they understand that the casing never leaves the weapon, right?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (oVJmc)

192 yep

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (EKSeu)

193 I still don't believe I'll ever be able to conceal or open carry in libtard NY, but here's to hoping.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (72PAC)

194 I didn't know this before today, but New Jersey doesn't require any sort of special or temporary license to transport a weapon through the state. It does have strict requirements though, holding the citizen to the letter of the law as expressed in 18 USCA 926A.


Owning a firearm in the state is another matter though.


https://preview.tinyurl.com/gq7f94w

Posted by: Huck Follywood, dedicated to coffee at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (Ogr1j)

195 172 There are people I know that should not have a bicycle license, let alone be required to open carry.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Expand Your Rage with A Doofenschmirz Anger-inator from the Outrage Outlet! at July 24, 2018 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

---------

I do not believe people should be required to carry, however, they do have the right and, after that, it's that pesky notion of "individual liberty."

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (qC1Sy)

196 Open carry does not cause "undue panic." Again,
see AZ. The only people who have a problem with open carry are the same
kind of people who freak out over the idea of individual liberty.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:02 PM (qC1Sy)



I'm not a fan of open carry. Imagine two guys get into a shouting
match, and they're both carrying. One guy reaches for his handkerchief
to mop his brow, the other guy thinks he's reaching for the gun...


Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:04 PM

---

And carrying concealed would stop that from happening how exactly?

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (JUOKG)

197 The logical ju-jitsu is brutal. And here after watching Congress I thought lawyers fell for everything. Well done!

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (lK7fO)

198 I've never openly carried, for the reasons mentioned above: it's tactically unwise and it might cause a scene.

The concern about causing a scene, though, appears to be unfounded. I've talked to open-carriers several times and asked if it had ever caused a problem. One guy said he was asked to leave a sandwich shop one time because they had a no-guns policy. Other than that, everyone said it had never been a problem.

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (HiLJ1)

199 I believe the non-existent technology of "micro-stamping" is for marking the case, not the projectile. Could be wrong. Doesn't matter - neither technology exists, and there is literally no reason to think that either would be of any public value.


In any case, neither is constitutional. Duh.


Posted by: rhomboid at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (QDnY+)

200 177 For the first time in living memory, a funny joke on the Colbert show:

I'll take things I'm never gonna click under any circumstances including testicular torture for a bazillion dollars, Alex.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)
-----------
Same motto here Circa.

Posted by: NALNAMSAM - not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (mfjYD)

201 Open carry attracts thugs that want to mug you for your weapon.
Better concealed.

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (EKSeu)

202 Do you know how that affects reloaders? Would that make casting your own bullets illegal?
Posted by: Ace's liver



Supposedly the gun stamps the bullet at firing.
Stamps, laser etches, etc.

Regardless, the technology isn't there.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (7/YOc)

203 I'm sure they understand that the casing never leaves the weapon, right?


Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (oVJmc)

No

Posted by: Colin at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (OlSD6)

204 You just gotta imagine unlicensed open carry up on M.L.King blvd here to realize what a bad idea that's gonna be.

And sadly I know way too many people who should never be allowed to be near a gun.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 24, 2018 04:11 PM (k1TUh)

205 Hear tell the 9th Circuit uses strict scrutiny when examining evidence in pornography cases. Many hours of "deliberation."

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at July 24, 2018 04:11 PM (e1mEI)

206 Layman's translation: levels of scrutiny are a made-up matrix applied to allow courts to amend and/or repeal parts of the constitution they don't like. Without, you know, actually going through the process of amending or repealing provisions of the constitution.

-
Some animals rights are more equal than others.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 24, 2018 04:11 PM (+y/Ru)

207 I am not a big fan of guns. I like them in terms of history and engineering, I like how a lot of them look. But they are instruments of destruction which bothers me. I enjoy shooting a gun but they frighten me at some level: this is death in my hands.

But none of that matters, its just a personal, emotional reaction. Objectively I support people's owning guns and using them, especially in terms of self defense and protection of liberty.

And I'm infuriated and sick of governments spending every waking moment trying to find some way to violate people's ability of self defense and constitutional, human right to keep and bear arms. I'm sick enough that I'm leaning toward an extremist position were nobody should have any restrictions on owning any kind of weapons at any time. Bombs, nukes, tanks, warships. Enough of this penny ante crap by petty tyrants.

They want a gun, at firing, to micro-stamp a bullet so they will be able to identify the supposed shooter.

They all do that anyway; firing pin and bullet rifling. All this would do is increase expense in manufacturing.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 24, 2018 04:11 PM (39g3+)

208 Whoever the next democrat overlord assumes the presidency, they will be twice as bad as the Jug-eared fuck.

Posted by: EPA sign at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (zObQ4)

209 What is a bicycle license ?



Posted by: dDan at July 24, 2018 04:05 PM (hwYmz)

It's a DOG license, with the word crossed out and the word Bicycle written in in bicycle grease.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (37IEG)

210 The guys who walk around with a big weapon brandished openly are obnoxious. I get the concept of liberty and showing support for a basic human right. I understand the frustration with tyrants in government (see above). But you're just frightening and unsettling people for no reason. Its like the women who get in big groups and run around topless to defy nudity laws and show how natural it is to be naked. Just, stop.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (39g3+)

211 Off sock

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (zObQ4)

212 While browsing the other day, I came across this book that purports that the second amendment is misunderstood. It was not the recognition of a right to arm oneself but rather the government's first attempt at gun control.

A Well-Regulated Militia
The Founding Fathers and the Origins of Gun Control in America
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks


They make the same mistake everyone does.
They use 2018 language to interpret 1780's language.

Back then, regulated meant "functions properly", not governmental control.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (7/YOc)

213 I open carry is a chest holster when I'm hiking. I sometimes get the stink eye from other hemp wearing Sierra Club types on the trail. I hope to see them all half eaten by a cougar in a ditch somewhere.

Posted by: Under Fire at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (r9UYA)

214 Haven't looked, if this is the case in question, but legal observers of the 9th Circus madcap shredding of 2A rights recently included a case (Peruta? concealed carry in CA) in which the "court" pretended to ignore the combo of 1) state ban on open carry 2) restrictive issuance of concealed carry permits. That combo, as the majority here notes, effectively bans "bearing" arms.


It was a dramatic, brazen bit of lawlessness when the court ignored it. Some observers predicted it was a trap they couldn't ignore forever, this might be that day.


Of course, it gets overturned en banc (which will be the Nth slap in the face of SCOTUS, de facto repeal of McDonald/Heller by inferior courts), goes to DC, where review is denied. Wanna bet?


Posted by: rhomboid at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (QDnY+)

215 Open carry attracts thugs that want to mug you for your weapon.
Better concealed.





Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM

---

Any proof to back up that claim? I have seen that repeated over and over but I lived in Kentucky for 5 years with open carry and tons of people there open carry, and I never read or heard of a single instance of that ever occurring in the entire State.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (JUOKG)

216 203
I'm sure they understand that the casing never leaves the weapon, right?




Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 24, 2018 04:09 PM (oVJmc)

No


Posted by: Colin at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (OlSD6)
Well, only if you never want to fire another round really.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:14 PM (37IEG)

217 199 " I believe the non-existent technology of "micro-stamping" is for marking the case, not the projectile. Could be wrong. Doesn't matter - neither technology exists, and there is literally no reason to think that either would be of any public value. ..."

The California micro-stamping law requires the firing pin on semi-automatic handguns to mark the primer when struck.

Posted by: You're in hell, the world ended at at July 24, 2018 04:15 PM (NmR1a)

218 And carrying concealed would stop that from happening how exactly?
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (JUOKG)


Because if you didn't know a guy was carrying you wouldn't assume he was reaching for his gun. Just having visible guns raises the temperature of any altercation because it moves the "this pissed off guy might try to shoot me" chance from "remote" to "well, it's possible..."

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:15 PM (h2Bdk)

219 What is a bicycle license ?

-
I don't know but a fish doesn't need one.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (+y/Ru)

220 It's a DOG license, with the word crossed out and the word Bicycle written in in bicycle grease.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (37IEG)


Appreciate response.

Must have been a Damned Yankee that came up w/ that one.

Posted by: dDan at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (hwYmz)

221 Open carry attracts thugs that want to mug you for your weapon. Better concealed.

I get the theory of this but its not a very solid one. If someone needs your gun, they likely don't have one of their own. And honestly, criminals prefer not to prey on strong targets, they want people they can take out without reasonable expectation of being hurt.

Even someone really crazy is usually sly about self protection, and if they are so demented or wasted on drugs they don't care, then carrying a weapon or not is irrelevant to their actions.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (39g3+)

222 You just gotta imagine unlicensed open carry up on M.L.King blvd here to realize what a bad idea that's gonna be.

And sadly I know way too many people who should never be allowed to be near a gun.
Posted by: Tom Servo


Where DON'T they do that now?

You also have to realize how unlicensed open speaking is to realize what a bad idea that is gonna be.

And sadly, I know way too many Antifa and democrats who should never be allowed to speak.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (7/YOc)

223 The California micro-stamping law requires the firing pin on semi-automatic handguns to mark the primer when struck.
Posted by: You're in hell, the world ended at at July 24, 2018 04:15 PM (NmR1a)


Now that truly is something only California could come up with. I suppose it means revolvers are about to become more popular.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (h2Bdk)

224 Well, it works for the most part because people don't actually carry. I've been through AZ lots of times and never saw anybody with a gun.
Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (h2Bdk)

-------------

I lived in AZ three years and saw people carrying frequently.

Please, don't move the goalposts. You made a statement right out of "gun hysteria 101" and now you're trying claim what you said doesn't actually happen because, as far as you've seen, no one carries.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (qC1Sy)

225 @201

I do not want to open carry, I live in fucking NJ and it's bad enough living amongst insane liberals, I do not want to be swatted every time I go out in public with a firearm conspicuously unconcealed.


If you can open carry in your state fantastic.


I can't do either in this shit hole state and if I have my choice I want to carry concealed.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (2JcMg)

226 The California micro-stamping law requires the firing pin on semi-automatic handguns to mark the primer when struck.

Every firing pin already leaves a distinctive mark on the shell to begin with. Any markings small enough to matter in this sense are going to wear off rather rapidly in any case.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 24, 2018 04:17 PM (39g3+)

227 And carrying concealed would stop that from happening how exactly?

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (JUOKG)



Because if you didn't know a guy was carrying you wouldn't assume he
was reaching for his gun. Just having visible guns raises the
temperature of any altercation because it moves the "this pissed off guy
might try to shoot me" chance from "remote" to "well, it's possible..."



Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:15 PM

---

Sorry not buying that argument. You always assume someone is armed no matter what the situation is, whether or not a gun is visible.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:17 PM (JUOKG)

228 Because if you didn't know a guy was carrying you wouldn't assume he was reaching for his gun. Just having visible guns raises the temperature of any altercation because it moves the "this pissed off guy might try to shoot me" chance from "remote" to "well, it's possible..."
Posted by: Ace's liver


Please show where that's happened in the states that allow open carry.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:18 PM (7/YOc)

229 Well, only if you never want to fire another round really.
Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:14 PM (37IEG)

--------------

Well, they are kinda forgetting about revolvers, where the shooter decides when and where to lose the casing. What idiots.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at July 24, 2018 04:18 PM (b3Pum)

230 And carrying concealed would stop that from happening how exactly?

Doubt.

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2018 04:18 PM (QrTqV)

231 Slight change of subject:
Anyone ever tried?? From Amazon

Maximum Strength Pure Organic Horny Goat Weed Powder

Posted by: Colin at July 24, 2018 04:19 PM (OlSD6)

232 Please, don't move the goalposts. You made a statement right out of "gun hysteria 101" and now you're trying claim what you said doesn't actually happen because, as far as you've seen, no one carries.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM (qC1Sy)


I'm not moving goalposts. You're using Arizona as an example of something that doesn't really happen. Maybe there are people who open carry where you are, but it's not at all a normal thing to see.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:20 PM (h2Bdk)

233 You just gotta imagine unlicensed open carry up on M.L.King blvd here to realize what a bad idea that's gonna be.



And sadly I know way too many people who should never be allowed to be near a gun.

Posted by: Tom Servo





Where DON'T they do that now?



You also have to realize how unlicensed open speaking is to realize what a bad idea that is gonna be.



And sadly, I know way too many Antifa and democrats who should never be allowed to speak.



Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:16 PM

---

That was my argument to a gun dealer here in NE Texas when he said he would fight against unlicensed open carry. He claimed "criminals" would walk around armed all of the time.


I asked him what difference would that make because they are already doing it right now. He did't answer my question.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:20 PM (JUOKG)

234 Just having visible guns raises the temperature of any altercation because it moves the "this pissed off guy might try to shoot me" chance from "remote" to "well, it's possible..."

Possibly, but I would guess that its at least equally offset by making people think twice about an altercation because of the visible weapon. I mean, getting into a fight with some dude vs getting into a fight with some dude who has a holstered gun in view is a whole nother ballgame.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 24, 2018 04:21 PM (39g3+)

235 I don't like printing laws. If I'm conceal carrying and someone sees a slight print under my shirt, too fucking bad.

Posted by: Under Fire at July 24, 2018 04:21 PM (r9UYA)

236 Well, they are kinda forgetting about revolvers, where the shooter decides when and where to lose the casing. What idiots.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at July 24, 2018 04:18 PM (b3Pum)

that's because ALL guns are machine gun assault automatic machine assault guns! Spitting calibers left and right from their high capacity clips attached to the parts that stick up!

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:21 PM (37IEG)

237 no concealed carry license has ever been granted by the County

Does not this legalize OPEN CARRY en every city and state?

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 24, 2018 04:21 PM (JFO2v)

238 asked him what difference would that make because they are already doing it right now. He did't answer my question.


Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:20 PM (JUOKG)
Shit, if he's worried about that - they can walk around with long guns right now. He's a gun dealer?

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:23 PM (37IEG)

239 235 I don't like printing laws. If I'm conceal carrying and someone sees a slight print under my shirt, too fucking bad.

Yeah, that's one great thing about legal open carry--you're not in violation if someone inadvertently sees your concealed weapon.

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis at July 24, 2018 04:23 PM (HiLJ1)

240
Well, it works for the most part because people don't actually carry. I've been through AZ lots of times and never saw anybody with a gun.
Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (h2Bdk)

That's because we also have Constitutional Carry. Concealed carry sans license as long as you are an 21 and not a felon.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert at July 24, 2018 04:23 PM (O9qtX)

241 237 no concealed carry license has ever been granted by the County

Does not this legalize OPEN CARRY en every city and state?
Posted by: rhennigantx at July 24, 2018 04:21 PM (JFO2v)

Of course not, the ruling was unconstitutional.

Posted by: Random Hawaii Judge #7 at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (72PAC)

242 That was my argument to a gun dealer here in NE Texas when he said he would fight against unlicensed open carry. He claimed "criminals" would walk around armed all of the time.


I asked him what difference would that make because they are already doing it right now. He did't answer my question.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:20 PM (JUOKG)

Around here, LE knows most of the criminals.

Posted by: golfman at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (If3tB)

243 Well, only if you never want to fire another round really.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:14 PM (37IEG)



--------------



Well, they are kinda forgetting about revolvers, where the shooter decides when and where to lose the casing. What idiots.


Posted by: Calm Mentor at July 24, 2018 04:18 PM

---

When I did my "Bounty Hunter" class and got my Bail Enforcement License in CT they stressed using revolvers so you didn't leave those unwanted cases lying about the scene.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (JUOKG)

244 Just having visible guns raises the temperature of any altercation because it moves the "this pissed off guy might try to shoot me" chance from "remote" to "well, it's possible..."

Possibly, but I would guess that its at least equally offset by making people think twice about an altercation because of the visible weapon. I mean, getting into a fight with some dude vs getting into a fight with some dude who has a holstered gun in view is a whole nother ballgame.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor


Carrying actually has helped me chill, stand down, and let a lot of shit slide. Why?

Because I know I can end your life with 5 lbs of pressure.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (7/YOc)

245 164 Absent en banc review the only way this decision doesn't go into effect is if the panel decides to stay the ruling pending Supreme Court review or the Supreme Court decides to stay the ruling pending their own review. There's no option for a single district court (or circuit court) judge to block it.

If en banc review is granted then this ruling will be stayed and eventually withdrawn in favor of the en banc decision.

Posted by: Stephen at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (i/4lz)

246 Does not this legalize OPEN CARRY en every city and state?

It seems like the ruling only says that you cannot allow concealed carry yet ban open carry. As I understand it.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (39g3+)

247 Jmel, from waaaay back up thread, I'm here to tell you that this particular ruling could well have nothing to do with Trump.


A much more important, much stronger ruling (in favor of concealed carry, by a 3-judge panel, in the Peruta case) a few years ago makes the point. The ruling was written as to dare the circuit to over-rule it - it basically xeroxed Heller and/or McDonald (can't recall which, think Heller) and said here, over-turn SCOTUS if you dare.


They did, of course, without a pause, though with less open contempt than the 4th in their ruling on the MD gun law.

Posted by: rhomboid at July 24, 2018 04:25 PM (QDnY+)

248 The problem is if push came to shove and they are forced to relent on open or concealed carry our masters will allow open carry and keep concealed heavily restricted.


Because they know the vast majority of gun owners will not open carry.


I want both....


Open carry and Concealed Carry damn it!!!!

Posted by: Kreplach at July 24, 2018 04:26 PM (2JcMg)

249 247
237

no concealed carry license has ever been granted by the County



In NC the county Sheriff must approve your CC.

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:26 PM (p0Wrx)

250 223-- The California micro-stamping law requires the firing pin on semi-automatic handguns to mark the primer when struck.
Posted by: You're in hell, the world ended at at July 24, 2018 04:15 PM (NmR1a)

"Now that truly is something only California could come up with. I suppose it means revolvers are about to become more popular"

To be completely accurate- the requirement is for the casing to be marked in two places when the gun is fired--

CA has a 'safe handgun roster', i.e. to sell a firearm in CA you have to apply and get the firearm on the list. Microstamping for any new model semi handguns became a requirement ~2013, prior models could still be sold. Several gun manufacturers have dropped out of the civilian market as they retired some models and determined micro-stamping ain't worth the cost.

Which was really the goal, drive manufacturers out, administrative means to reduce weapons available for the law abiding.

Posted by: You're in hell, the world ended at at July 24, 2018 04:27 PM (xGZ+b)

251 "Carrying actually has helped me chill, stand down, and let a lot of shit slide."

I've found this to be true, too. It's as though I tell myself, "I have a gun on my waist--I can't afford to lose my temper."

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis at July 24, 2018 04:27 PM (HiLJ1)

252 no concealed carry license has ever been granted by the County



In NC the county Sheriff must approve your CC.


Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:26 PM

---

Here in Texas the State is the approval for your LTC. The local Country Sheriff has nothing to do with it which is the way it should be.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:28 PM (JUOKG)

253 It seems like the ruling only says that you cannot allow concealed carry yet ban open carry. As I understand it.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (39g3+)

I had it opposite.

No concealed carry had been granted by the county.

Will re-read.

Posted by: golfman at July 24, 2018 04:28 PM (If3tB)

254 Carrying actually has helped me chill, stand down, and let a lot of shit slide. Why?

Because I know I can end your life with 5 lbs of pressure.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (7/YOc)

---------------

Yeah, if you CCW, you best lose your temper.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:28 PM (qC1Sy)

255 It seems like the ruling only says that you cannot allow concealed carry yet ban open carry.


Other way around. If you ban concealed you must allow open. There must be some legal carry.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 24, 2018 04:29 PM (fuK7c)

256 254 Carrying actually has helped me chill, stand down, and let a lot of shit slide. Why?

Because I know I can end your life with 5 lbs of pressure.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 24, 2018 04:24 PM (7/YOc)


Yeah, if you CCW, you best lose your temper.
Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:28 PM (qC1Sy)

--------------

Oh good grief, did that come out wrong. I can't even blame autocucumber.

If you CCW, you best learn to control your temper.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:30 PM (qC1Sy)

257 Nood.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at July 24, 2018 04:30 PM (72PAC)

258 this is very bad news for the corporate state and their running dogs in the democrat party establishment as it will now be much more difficult to keep non criminal black men in the ghetto disarmed so they can't shoot back at racism. the strictest gun laws are in the black ghettos. if any one disagrees why did pro second amendment ronald reagan sign the first major gun control law in california with democrat support?

Posted by: wammo at July 24, 2018 04:30 PM (QdPN9)

259 If we ever get open carry here in Maryland I'm strapping one to my thigh Han Solo style...Can't wait!

Posted by: Timon at July 24, 2018 04:30 PM (7Rpy3)

260
Yeah, if you CCW, you best lose your temper.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:28 PM (qC1Sy)


I just figured you were Mary Cloggenstein's sock puppet.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (37IEG)

261 @252
They tried to remove the sheriffs, but they make so much money of the apps that they went nuts. It is a shall issue state, do the sheriffs are just greedy pigs.

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (p0Wrx)

262 Oh good grief, did that come out wrong. I can't even blame autocucumber.

If you CCW, you best learn to control your temper.
Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:30 PM (qC1Sy)

Naw. You had it right.

That temper should go where you can't find it. Gone.

Posted by: golfman at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (If3tB)

263 Yeah, nood armpits.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (37IEG)

264 I want both....


Open carry and Concealed Carry damn it!!!!
Posted by: Kreplach at July 24, 2018 04:26 PM (2JcMg)

--------------

That is the law in GA. With your GWL, you can carry any weapon, either open or concealed. Without it, you can not carry on your person, but you can carry in your car, ruled an extension of your home, open on the seat, in the glove box or the console.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (b3Pum)

265
I just figured you were Mary Cloggenstein's sock puppet.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (37IEG)

------------

no just your ordinary "post then think" idiot.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (qC1Sy)

266 Naw. You had it right.

That temper should go where you can't find it. Gone.
Posted by: golfman at July 24, 2018 04:31 PM (If3tB)

-------------

I figured someone would get it but still....

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:32 PM (qC1Sy)

267 I really like the idea of unlicensed open or concealed carry. The felons are not allowed to possess a firearm. period. These idiots will likely try to do so anyway and that is a quick ticket back to the PMITA prison, as another commentor posted: the local LEOs know who the felons/turds are and will jack them up to get them out of society.

Posted by: Bonecrusher at July 24, 2018 04:32 PM (JNTt1)

268
I figured someone would get it but still....

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:32 PM (qC1Sy)

Nah, kidding, knew what you meant. I'm classic for leaving words out. Often the worst possible ones.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:33 PM (37IEG)

269 that's because ALL guns are machine gun assault automatic machine assault guns! Spitting calibers left and right from their high capacity clips attached to the parts that stick up!
Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:21 PM


Cut. Jib. Newsletter?

Posted by: Diane Fineswine at July 24, 2018 04:34 PM (ctuyM)

270 And sadly, I know way too many Antifa and democrats who should never be allowed to speak."

Unless they've got weirding modules, the results aren't quite on the same level.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 24, 2018 04:34 PM (k1TUh)

271 The entire CA handgun "roster" is a comical example of the lawlessness that is rampant on the 2A. Purportedly it restricts models based on "safety" - yet ..... yet ..... law enforcement is exempt (can buy any model made), and personal sales from people who import them as personal property are exempt.


How many "safety" laws have exemptions? You mean to tell me that guns that are unsafe are OK for our noble warriors in blue? You want to endanger the cops? And it's OK for unsafe guns to change hands, as long as they were originally bought out of state?


The case challenging this (Pena) produed a lower court ruling that is breathtakingly indefensible, even by current farcical US "standards". To add to the farce, the idiot Harris (now disgracing the country in the Senate) dumped in the micro-stamping issue *during the trial*. Caused a delay, as the court looked at that issue.


In a sane world with anything resembling rule of law, the original case would have prevailed easily - dumping in micro-stamping (a non-existent technology with no arguable public benefit - which is immaterial anyway since a clear constitutional right is being heavily infringed) should have cinched it, and surprised many observers at the time since it logically would doom the state's case.


Oh no. No problem. Indefensible law with an indefensible new twist dumped in on top of it - sure, no problem.


Posted by: rhomboid at July 24, 2018 04:35 PM (QDnY+)

272 So I tried to google up an instance where two guys carrying openly got into an altercation that ended in a shooting and couldn't find one. Mostly because I couldn't figure out how to filter out the 50 bazillion results where cops shot a guy who was open carrying legally.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:37 PM (h2Bdk)

273 Right now New York City and some of the suburbs who have the same policies and subterfuge like "sportsman permits" which only let you go to the range or hunting, are shitting their pull-ups.

Posted by: Marcus T, Complacency Kills at July 24, 2018 04:42 PM (VpIIl)

274 The left touts 'democratic socialism' as Venezuela's inflation rate skyrockets to 1 million percent

-
I could be wrong, but I believe that's a record. More than 100% per hour. So you go to bed with a Starbucks latte costing $5. When you wake up, it's $40.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 24, 2018 04:44 PM (+y/Ru)

275 Anti carry? Honestly, you could drop some of these comments off at HuffPo and get cheered.

Flame away.

Posted by: Gooshy at July 24, 2018 04:45 PM (cJUEb)

276 148 Moms Demand Action in a tizzy over "downloadable guns."

https://tinyurl.com/y7q64ull


First, they came for my 3-D printer, and I said nothing.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2018 04:00 PM (ptqGC)

Wait till they find out about 80% Ghost Guns.

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 24, 2018 04:46 PM (JFO2v)

277 "
I open carry is a chest holster when I'm hiking. I sometimes get the
stink eye from other hemp wearing Sierra Club types on the trail. I hope
to see them all half eaten by a cougar in a ditch somewhere.



Posted by: Under Fire at July 24, 2018 04:13 PM (r9UYA)"Your'e killing me here.

Posted by: Marcus T, Complacency Kills at July 24, 2018 04:47 PM (VpIIl)

278 Some of this open carry commentary sounds...bad. If some libtard gets his panties in a knot, fuck em.

Posted by: Gooshy at July 24, 2018 04:48 PM (cJUEb)

279 If this decision stands it will be bigger than Amy Schumer's ass.

Posted by: Jaqen H'ghar at July 24, 2018 04:49 PM (5fSr7)

280 Right now New York City and some of the suburbs who have the same policies and subterfuge like "sportsman permits" which only let you go to the range or hunting, are shitting their pull-ups.

******************************

It's not just NYC but Long fucking GUUYyYYYYYland, not only required to have a permit just to OWN a fucking gun but the only way you can conceal carry if you can demonstrate that you're in reasonable fear of your life on a daily basis.

How these policies continue to survive today is beyond me. Fuck that blue state up the ass with an elephant's HIV infested dick.

Posted by: Froderick Wonkensteen at July 24, 2018 04:52 PM (+dsLj)

281 Open carry is stupid. It identifies you to any bad guy and says "shoot me first".

Posted by: LGoPs at July 24, 2018 04:53 PM (RRchO)

282 Aaand at 281 we hit the bottom of the barrel.

Posted by: Gooshy at July 24, 2018 04:55 PM (cJUEb)

283 I know what the second amendment says.... which overrules what some Hawaii judge says, every time. There is a Constitution for a very good reason.... Hawaii judges...

Posted by: kraken at July 24, 2018 04:58 PM (DpEis)

284 There is a Constitution for a very good reason.... Hawaii judges...

Was Hawaii even discovered by then?

Posted by: DaveA at July 24, 2018 05:07 PM (FhXTo)

285 I could be wrong, but I believe that's a record. More than 100% per hour. So you go to bed with a Starbucks latte costing $5. When you wake up, it's $40.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 24, 2018 04:44 PM (+y/Ru)


When it's that high and you get paid, you have to sprint to the bank so you can get money, then sprint to the grocery store so you can buy stuff before your money is worthless.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 05:07 PM (h2Bdk)

286 Nah, kidding, knew what you meant. I'm classic for leaving words out. Often the worst possible ones.
Posted by: DamnedYankee at July 24, 2018 04:33 PM (37IEG)

------------

It's a guy thing, I think.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 05:22 PM (qC1Sy)

287 David Hogg is not pleased. Heh.

Posted by: platypus, gumdrop gorilla channel at July 24, 2018 05:33 PM (uWcN8)

288 Massachusetts is an open carry state by statute and yet no one does it.

Posted by: Blue at July 24, 2018 05:47 PM (qSsVI)

289 Lets see some members of the Stupid Jackass Party in Hawaii go without any armed goons to protected their sorry hides Liberal Democrats are Jerks we all know their Stupid

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at July 24, 2018 06:57 PM (wGqjj)

290 I'll keep asking: why is "gun violence" bad? Does the court endorse violence so long as no guns are used?

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at July 24, 2018 07:09 PM (rlQwD)

291 If clicking on Colbert would cause him to suffer a shock collar shock I'd wear the clicker out.

Posted by: torabora at July 24, 2018 07:10 PM (bppfg)

292 179 Strawman. Again, AZ has had open carry for over a century and these problems don't exist, otherwise MSM would scream about it constantly.
Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:06 PM (qC1Sy)

Well, it works for the most part because people don't actually carry. I've been through AZ lots of times and never saw anybody with a gun.
Posted by: Ace's liver at July 24, 2018 04:07 PM (h2Bdk)

Not even cops?

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at July 24, 2018 07:25 PM (rlQwD)

293 Comment 193
They actually passed it several years ago, but it was in the news
recently because the suit challenging it finally made it to the
California Supreme Court, where it was upheld.


I think the folks behind the challenge are appealing it.

Then, 199
I believe the non-existent technology of "micro-stamping" is for marking
the case, not the projectile. Could be wrong. Doesn't matter -
neither technology exists, and there is literally no reason to think
that either would be of any public value.





In any case, neither is constitutional. Duh

And the reason it was upheld, is that the lawsuit was all bout "but this microstamping the case thing is extremely difficult if not impossible to do."The court said they didn't care and that this is no reason to challenge the law in court. They did hint that it may be unconstitutional, which will be the basis of appeal.



Posted by: Gunslinger at July 24, 2018 07:26 PM (R2gO3)

294 Here in Texas the State is the approval for your LTC. The local Country Sheriff has nothing to do with it which is the way it should be.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 24, 2018 04:28 PM (JUOKG)

And so long as you don't have any worse than a Class C Misdemeanor, DPS will issue the license.

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at July 24, 2018 07:34 PM (rlQwD)

295 In Peruta, the 9th Circus ruled that California's ban on open carry violated the 2A because San Diego county had already effectively banned concealed carry by being a "cite good reason" county leaving no remedy for the 2A.
The decision was overturned by the En Banc court.

Posted by: Max Entropy at July 24, 2018 07:36 PM (ur/Uv)

296 260
Yeah, if you CCW, you best lose your temper.

Posted by: Blake - used elite salesman at July 24, 2018 04:28 PM (qC1Sy)

What I was told in my CHL class (this was 2010) always resonated with me. When you conceal-carry, or have a gun in your vehicle, you can let whoever is around you do what they want - because you know they can do what they want, flip you the bird, slander your mommy, or otherwise throw a temper tantrum that puts a 3 year old to shame, whatever. You can relax and let them do whatever because you know, every if they don't, there's a line they cannot cross. Once they cross that line, it's game on.

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at July 24, 2018 07:41 PM (rlQwD)

297 201 Open carry attracts thugs that want to mug you for your weapon.
Better concealed.
Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2018 04:10 PM (EKSeu)

This is why cops get murdered all the time.

Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at July 24, 2018 07:44 PM (rlQwD)

298 Ninth Circuit strikes Hawaii law that only security guards may get handgun carry permits

State may regulate, but not nullify, the right to bear arms.

David Kopel Jul. 24, 2018 1:33 pm

https://t.co/FV2VU55xVy

Posted by: Trigger Warning at July 24, 2018 10:23 PM (YRXy3)

299 "Obviously Hawaii will probably win"

Interesting sentence structure.

Posted by: Heresolong at July 25, 2018 11:04 AM (spsWF)

300 Constitutional carry is the only law that exists.
Natural Law, Gods Law, and the constitution are crystal clear on this. EVERY person has a God given right to defend himself and his loved ones with whatever firearm he chooses. SCOTUS be DAMNED!!!! Hell SCOTUS ok'd obamacare so they loose the right to interpret our laws.
Police who hide behind "i'm just enforcing the law, if you want the laws changes call your congressman" will, sadly, be met with deadly force in the near future. This, because they either don't know the law or are to lazy to refuse an unconstitutional and therefore ILLEGAL law.

Posted by: joe schmoe at August 02, 2018 11:04 AM (u3/Rr)

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