Senate's Obamacare Bill Is Primarily Designed to "Fix," Expand Obamacare

Of course.

My anger about this is tempered by the fact that I was pretty sure this program would remain on the books forever, as soon as it went operational.

Reform of the individual market, intended to give those who do not get coverage through work or a federal program access to subsidized, regulated coverage. The law created a new federal subsidy, based on income, for lower- and middle-income households to purchase health insurance. It set up federal rules requiring insurers to sell to all comers while limiting their ability to charge based on health history. It mandated that all individuals obtain health coverage or pay a tax penalty. And it erected a system of government-run health insurance exchanges on which consumers could purchase subsidized, regulated individual market coverage.

Those exchanges have never been fully stable as either business or policy propositions. Premiums have marched steadily upwards; last year, the price of a typical plan rose by 22 percent, and early reports show large spikes coming this year as well. The non-profit health insurance organizations that Obamacare funded have mostly shut down. Large, for-profit health insurers, meanwhile, have lost money and either scaled back their participation or dropped out entirely.

Republicans have repeatedly criticized these marketplaces for being expensive and unstable. As Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who spearheaded the drafting of this bill, likes to say, "Obamacare is collapsing around us."

Yet even more than the House plan, the Senate plan retains the essential structure of Obamacare's individual market reforms. It would likely result in fewer people being covered, and it would not stop the destabilization of the market.


Like the House plan, the Senate plan retains Obamacare's major insurance regulations, including the requirement to cover pre-existing conditions, at the federal level. Unlike the House plan, it does not allow states to apply for a waiver to opt out of those rules. It also eliminates Obamacare's health insurance mandate.

Every state that has attempted this combination of coverage regulations without a mandate has seen a swift meltdown in the individual market. There is every reason to expect that the same would happen under the Senate plan, especially since Obamacare's exchanges were struggling with a too-small, too-sick enrollee pool even with the mandate in place.

The Senate bill attempts to manage this instability by buying off health insurance companies with payments that Republicans previously argued were illegal and should be stopped.

Populism, the uncouth and ill-informed belief that Your Social Betters are incompetent and are lying to you, must be stamped out due to its total divergence from reality.

Alternate Opinion: Avik Roy is a rightist health care policy expert. I tend to disagree with his assumptions, which tend to include the liberal imperatives of some kind of government-sponsored health care.

You know -- achieving Liberal Policy Imperatives Through "Conservative" Market-Based Solutions.

However, he's certainly no crank. He's very enthusiastic about the bill:


I'll read his own lengthier response once he posts it.

Posted by: Ace at 04:49 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 I'll get the others

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 22, 2017 01:49 PM (ZQfW9)

2 It's a slippery slope.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 01:51 PM (PduNE)

3 Embrace me.

Posted by: Single Payer at June 22, 2017 01:51 PM (l4aLi)

4 PIZZAGATE !! Gunman sentenced to four years for trying to save kids from Clintons!!

Posted by: Bus rider at June 22, 2017 01:52 PM (X7yw/)

5 Quite a howdown at the Crawford Ranch last weekend. Should have been there.

Posted by: John Roberts at June 22, 2017 01:53 PM (l4aLi)

6 If the GOP is wetting their collective panties over this, it's terrible. They're not hiding it from the Dems; they're hiding it from us. (They just couldn't trust the Dems not to leak it and screw the pooch.)

Posted by: sunny-dee at June 22, 2017 01:53 PM (QAOZh)

7 And so we continue lumbering toward single-payer.

Yippee.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Cranky-pants at June 22, 2017 01:53 PM (RwwCT)

8 "requirement to cover pre-existing conditions"

Not sure what that is but it's not insurance. Maybe a healthcare co-op?

I hope they do this for car insurance so I can wreck my car and then insure it to get the repairs paid for.

Posted by: Dang at June 22, 2017 01:53 PM (8b+oT)

9 Do the Democrats support it?

Than I'm agin' it.


Call me shallow

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (J+eG2)

10 Finished reading the Senate HC bill. Put simply: If it passes, it'll be the greatest policy achievement by a GOP Congress in my lifetime.

----


I'd have said that a clean repeal of Obamacare would be the greatest policy achievement by a GOP congress in my lifetime, but what do I know.

I'm tired of the "conservative case for [insert liberal dream of expansion of federal power and bureaucracy here]."

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (KUaJL)

11 Embrace me.
Posted by: Single Payer


Yep, this bitch is coming down, and when it does we're not going back to the way it was. We're getting the NHS here in the US. Patients dying of dehydration in the hallways and all.

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (jhqr1)

12 I agree with Ace, once one of these monstocities is passed, as Fredocare was...it is next to impossible to really repeal free shit...We are fucked and have been for 7 years. Get out the KY jelly

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (5y11N)

13 Let it fucking fail.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (80X3Z)

14 Also... how do you "expand Obamacare" without just going full single payor?

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (KUaJL)

15 "We're getting the NHS here in the US. Patients dying of dehydration in the hallways and all."

The Washington Pathway?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 01:55 PM (J+eG2)

16 I guess I understand why Republicans are all behind having our own NHS. It's what the CoC wants.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 01:55 PM (QQ+il)

17 I'd like to thank Obama, the DNC, and now the RNC as well for getting me acclimated to life without health insurance. It's liberating.

Posted by: Lurking Moron at June 22, 2017 01:55 PM (1L9V9)

18 Thank the Lord that I can always fall back on my VA Healthcare.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 01:55 PM (J+eG2)

19 Also... how do you "expand Obamacare" without just going full single payor?
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (KUaJL)

You answered your own question

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2017 01:55 PM (5y11N)

20 At least there's one person on the planet who has read it.

Alternate Opinion: Avik Roy is a rightist health care policy expert. I tend to disagree with his assumptions, which tend to include the liberal imperatives of some kind of government-sponsored health care.

You know -- achieving Liberal Policy Imperatives Through "Conservative" Market-Based Solutions.

However, he's certainly no crank. He's very enthusiastic about the bill:



This gives me pause as well. I'm with you on not always agreeing with him but this is a case where someone is an expert and My Better on an issue through dint of, you know, studying and researching and working at becoming an expert and being better at it than I am because of all of that.

I'm at least willing to read what he says with an open mind.

*continues to bound about*

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 01:56 PM (mf5HN)

21 The JEFwon on this one,compliments of the GOPe wing of the Dem cartel.

Posted by: Lower class person whose opinion must be guided at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (oBuXO)

22 My anger about this is tempered by the fact that I was pretty sure this program would remain on the books forever, as soon as it went operational.

Yep, I think we all knew that. They had until 2014 to stop it and did virtually nothing but fundraise and tell lies.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (39g3+)

23 How weird that my brain reads "Kentucky jelly" and Virginia healthcare.

Posted by: SFGoth at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (dZ756)

24 I "Hope" this is all kabuki theater and this is the plan to let Rand and the others change the plan. Sigh...But I doubt i

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (5y11N)

25 "*continues to bound about*


Can you rotate your laptop ever so slightly to the left?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (J+eG2)

26 Does this mean medical insurance will be even MORE expensive?

Posted by: fluffy at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (jw2Xw)

27 Trump always said he wanted a big beautiful single payer system.

Posted by: Under Fire at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (l4aLi)

28

Question: Does the Senate plan eliminate the employer mandate?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (Hnqc1)

29 I pay over 1000 a month and there is one dermatologist on my plan. It took two months to get an appointment to get some pre-cancerous lesions froze of my face.

Thanks Obama

Posted by: The Jackhole at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (M+Lyo)

30 "Does this mean medical insurance will be even MORE expensive?"

If you are not Of The Body, yes.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (J+eG2)

31 Does this mean medical insurance will be even MORE expensive?
Posted by: fluffy at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (jw2Xw)

Do bears shit in the woods?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (5y11N)

32 single payer socialized medicine

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (SRKgf)

33 Alternate Opinion: Avik Roy is a rightist health care policy expert. I tend to disagree with his assumptions, which tend to include the liberal imperatives of some kind of government-sponsored health care.

If Avik Roy was a Taco Bell menu item, he'd be a Statist Supreme with Nachos and a Meth Dew.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (udajc)

34 Bernie Sanders, minutes after the bill was released, tweeted about how this is the worst thing the GOP has ever done and the most evil deed ever attempted by mankind.

Cause speed reader mcGee read the entire huge document and analyzed it in seconds. He's like the Flash, man.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (39g3+)

35 The GOP is just a merry band of useless cunts.

This is beyond stupid.

Posted by: Kreplach at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (7SnKY)

36 As long as you can buy insurance after the event, it's not insurance, and no private entity will be in that market.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (QQ+il)

37 I'd like to thank Obama, the DNC, and now the RNC as well for getting me acclimated to life without health insurance. It's liberating.

----

I see ya' there. If I break a leg, I hope for the horse treatment.

Posted by: auscolpyr at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (suO/a)

38 *continues to bound about*

If you haven't been spanked sufficiently, I'm here for you.

Posted by: fluffy at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (jw2Xw)

39 26 Does this mean medical insurance will be even MORE expensive?

Posted by: fluffy at June 22, 2017 01:57 PM (jw2Xw)

Oh yes.

Posted by: Aetna at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (l4aLi)

40 someone got the corgie's right?

Posted by: Fox at June 22, 2017 01:59 PM (DVC2D)

41 And so we continue lumbering toward single-payer.
Yippee.
Posted by: Pug Mahon, Cranky-pants at June 22, 2017 01:53 PM (RwwCT)


It will be two-tier system. 'Free' for those willing to accept the value and compromises inherent in anything free.

The second tier comprised of those who place a higher value on their lives and who will pay accordingly.

Those who demand single-payer now, will later demand automatic upgrade to the second tier.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 01:59 PM (PduNE)

42 BTW, I'm not exaggerating about NHS patients dying of dehydration.

Behold the majesty of government rationed care:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaqp2npg

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 01:59 PM (jhqr1)

43 According to Gallup, Americans' views of the Democratic presidential candidate remain unchanged, as 41 percent of people said they have a favorable view of Clinton, who challenged President Trump in last year's presidential race.

Clinton's favorability has remained unchanged over the last seven months, Gallup reported, with 43 percent of Americans saying they had a positive view of the 2016 presidential candidate in November. Her favorability dropped to 41 percent in December, and has been the same since then.

Losing presidential candidates over the last 25 years have seen a boost of at least 4 percentage points in their favorability after the election, with the exception of whinny candidates forever lost in a fantasy that they won.

Posted by: undocumented illegal SMOD at June 22, 2017 01:59 PM (e8kgV)

44 The Roy 69's bureaucratic DP.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2017 01:59 PM (udajc)

45 Finished reading the Senate HC bill. Put simply: If it passes, it'll be the greatest policy achievement by a GOP Congress in my lifetime.
- Avik Roy (@Avik) June 22, 2017


"Policy achievement"? WTF is that?

Anything short of repeal is total and unequivocal bullshit. BarkyCare is totally un-Constitutional and intensely un-AMerican in every way. There is no excuse for letting any of that monstrous piece of shit remain standing. It was passed with almost every illegal and criminal method possible (remember all the bribes, the illegal procedures, the criminal twists of law to put dem senators and congressturds in to vote for it, the "law by whim" to get it up and running ...), sustained by the most ridiculous SCOTASS decision in history, and defended by the most retarded arguments ever.

The Vichy GOP turds in Congress can all blow my dog and Avik Roy can clean the whole mess up with his toothbrush.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 22, 2017 01:59 PM (rZ+mb)

46 "If I break a leg, I hope for the horse treatment."

Stare at the hole, smile and wait for the flash.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (J+eG2)

47 Fucking Swamp Rats

Posted by: garrett at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (9Ch+5)

48 What the fuck ever.

I'm resigned to the fact that I literally go to work so some fucking bastard somewhere can lay on their ass and fuck, use drugs, drink, sell drugs, etc etc etc and never have to worry about taking responsibility for their own life. Must be fucking nice to have your life be one fucking big party thanks to those of us who actually feel some modicum of shame for taking or availing ourselves of something we didn't earn.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (vg8iE)

49 Does the Senate plan eliminate the employer mandate?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (Hnqc1)

50 I'm not exaggerating about NHS patients dying of dehydration

Oh, there's a push for that here in the USA, too. They're already doing it in the VA hospitals.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (39g3+)

51 >>> BTW, I'm not exaggerating about NHS patients dying of dehydration.

** ponders grabbing another beer **

Posted by: fluffy at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (jw2Xw)

52 Patients dying of dehydration in the hallways and all.
Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (jhqr1)

My wife's boss broke his leg badly heli-skiing in British Columbia about a dozen years ago. He lay doped up on a gurney for about 18 hours until a visiting doctor from Nigeria found him and got him stabilized to ship out to America so he could get into surgery.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Cranky-pants at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (RwwCT)

53 For those that thought that there was no way the republicans could lose the midterms, I give you the GOP.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (7ZVPa)

54 *continues to bound about*

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 01:56 PM


*places chin in hands, stares in rapt fascination*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 22, 2017 02:01 PM (p+Wdc)

55 I think the important thing is illegal aliens and muzzie "refugees" will be ahead of legal citizens in the rationed healthcare. Oh and we will get to pay a LOT more for that privilege.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:01 PM (npdX6)

56 Arik Roy

Low hurdle indeed

Posted by: MAGA at June 22, 2017 02:01 PM (LQ1Q3)

57 *continues to bound about*

If you haven't been spanked sufficiently, I'm here for you.
Posted by: fluffy




Hell. I'm spanking the shit out of it, but I keep losing sight of her!

Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2017 02:01 PM (j+h+K)

58 According to Gallup, Americans' views of the Democratic presidential candidate remain unchanged, as 41 percent of people said they have a favorable view of Clinton, who challenged President Trump in last year's presidential race.

Clinton's favorability has remained unchanged over the last seven months, Gallup reported, with 43 percent of Americans saying they had a positive view of the 2016 presidential candidate in November. Her favorability dropped to 41 percent in December, and has been the same since then.

Losing presidential candidates over the last 25 years have seen a boost of at least 4 percentage points in their favorability after the election, with the exception of whinny candidates forever lost in a fantasy that they won.


Posted by: undocumented illegal SMOD at June 22, 2017 01:59 PM (e8kgV)
=========

Why the fuck are they polling on this shit for? WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT THAT BROKEN-DOWN OLD BITCH WHO WILL NEVER AGAIN HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE?

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:02 PM (vg8iE)

59 Perfection is the enemy of good. Our healthcare system is crap for a number of reasons and it's undeniable that the main reason is cost. For both the services and the cost to insure those services. I don't pretend to have the solution other than to believe the closer it's set up as a free market system the better it will be.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:02 PM (9GhFt)

60 I'm not even in one of these jackass plans and most of my appointments are scheduled twice as far out, and I almost had to set up a new primary care doc 45 miles away as the closest I could get (someone made an exception).

The whole industry seems to be turning to shit because the politicians had to get their fat grubbies in the pie again.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:02 PM (wB8Tg)

61 Oh, there's a push for that here in the USA, too. They're already doing it in the VA hospitals.

You misunderstand. This isn't (just) their version of euthanasia. This is also their nurses not giving enough of a shit or being too busy to bring patients some water.

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 02:02 PM (jhqr1)

62 Need to read Atlas Shrugged again.

Posted by: Under Fire at June 22, 2017 02:02 PM (l4aLi)

63 Hell. I'm spanking the shit out of it, but I keep losing sight of her!
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2017 02:01 PM (j+h+K)


*serpentines more*

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (mf5HN)

64 This has been my fear all along, that there is simply no way to unwind Obamacare and the march toward single-payer.

But didn't somebody post a few months ago a list of eight or nine things that could be done to bring back some market-based solutions to Obamacare? I'd like to try some of those first.

Posted by: biancaneve at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (A/iod)

65 The Republican Senate legislates like a fag and their shit is all retarded. Fuck those guys in particular.


'Abandon Hope, All Who Enter' - sign over the Senate cloakroom door.

Posted by: Count de Monet at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (JO9+V)

66 I want a health insurance plan where if I pay into it most of my adult life, with no major claims due to a major disease/condition, I get all my money back plus interest when I reach retirement age.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (Hnqc1)

67 I'm going to believe it's a great big shit sandwich, just like O'Care.

People are welcome to believe what they want, but history has shown me that in practice we WILL get screwed.

So whatever, good thing we gave the GOP all the power.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (Abuxg)

68 GOP: "Let's expand Obamacare so Democrats won't say we're monsters who want people to die."
Democrats: "You're monsters who want people to die."

Posted by: V the K at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (O7MnT)

69 *places chin in hands, stares in rapt fascination*


They're hypnotic.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (QQ+il)

70 Thank goodness the GOPe had 8 years to come up with this plan. Can you imagine the pooch screwing if they had just started on it last November?

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:04 PM (npdX6)

71 I see ya' there. If I break a leg, I hope for the horse treatment.




As often as my wife has called me an ass....

Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2017 02:04 PM (j+h+K)

72 Roy would gladly kill your mom if there was an approved XML code for it.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2017 02:04 PM (udajc)

73 that sucking sound you hear is the republicans imploding early for 2018

Posted by: Fox at June 22, 2017 02:04 PM (DVC2D)

74 O, what a tangled web we create
When we first practice to regulate!

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 22, 2017 02:04 PM (vBeA5)

75 It's like 2006 never happened. Fuck the GOPe. Since DJT proved that an outsider can win, maybe it's time to double down on a third party.

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 22, 2017 02:04 PM (y7DUB)

76 Why the fuck are they polling on this shit for? WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT THAT BROKEN-DOWN OLD BITCH WHO WILL NEVER AGAIN HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE?

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:02 PM (vg8iE)


Hillary probably commissioned the poll. To stay 'fresh' in the public eye. As a 'placeholder' as Chelsea matures into the dominate female political figure of the future.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 02:04 PM (PduNE)

77 62 Need to read Atlas Shrugged again.
Posted by: Under Fire at June 22, 2017 02:02 PM (l4aLi)

Not really. By the time you finish, the real world will have caught up with you. We're about 2/3 of the way there already, by my estimation.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:05 PM (KUaJL)

78 If I read this correctly, it's another massive entitlement/crony capitalism sop like the prescription drug program.

Like Europe, we now live in a universe with math, but we don't acknowledge it. When we lose the next war because we have less than 200 F-22s, remember this moment when everyone wonders why we didn't have enough.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2017 02:05 PM (F0ZHr)

79 Lee, Cruz, Paul, and Johnson just came out against it. Said it didn't go far enough but that they're open for negotiation.

Posted by: WisRich at June 22, 2017 02:05 PM (G0vdT)

80 Fortunately, this new plan does pay for illegal alien healthcare. Wouldn't want to leave those criminals out in the cold, or having to pay their own medical costs.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2017 02:05 PM (7ZVPa)

81 GOP Congress 1994 to 2006, 2014 to current

The only other policy achievements are welfare reform and the brief time of balanced budgets of the late 90's.

Posted by: MAGA at June 22, 2017 02:05 PM (LQ1Q3)

82 "They're hypnotic."

Tassels


The missing word is "Tassels".

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:05 PM (J+eG2)

83 66 I want a health insurance plan where if I pay into it most of my adult life, with no major claims due to a major disease/condition, I get all my money back plus interest when I reach retirement age.
Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (Hnqc1)

That doesn't sufficiently protect idiots from the consequences of their own bad decisions, so it's right out, I'm afraid.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (KUaJL)

84 And the alt-right is correct. How's that for a bitter pill? I sure don't like the taste of it.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (Abuxg)

85 Roy thought the Ukrainian mass starvation was a glitch in the code.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (udajc)

86 The only saving grace to this infuriating bullshit from the Vichy GOP is that this all doesn't really matter since the monetary system is going to come crashing down and leave nothing but rubble in DC in its wake.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (rZ+mb)

87 We will be better off just to let the Democrats win and have OCare implode.

Republicans, what's the point of you?

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (QQ+il)

88 GOP: "Let's expand Obamacare so Democrats won't say we're monsters who want people to die."
Democrats: "You're monsters who want people to die."

Posted by: V the K at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (O7MnT)

Actually Trump was riffing on this yesterday on his speech in Iowa. He said words in effect, that he could come up with the greatest health plan ever, that cost nothing, and the democrats would still oppose it.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (PduNE)

89 The GOP is just beyond stupid and broken.

There only saving grace is the Donks are even worse which is why they feel they can get with stupid shit like this.

Posted by: Kreplach at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (7SnKY)

90 Another part of the "static economic model" in leftist's heads is that conditions don't have causes (unless ideologically convenient).

So medical care getting more expensive is just an inexplicable "problem" like hyenas moving into your area or meteors falling, and boy do they have an answer for that.

Mind you the answer is probably the cause of the problem that they pretend has no cause.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (wB8Tg)

91 *serpentines more*

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM


Hold our water bowl and watch this...

Posted by: The Invisible Puppies at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (p+Wdc)

92
Having experienced the full range o' fun that was my NSTEMI heart attack last Saturday, this and the previous thread are worse.

I'm out for a while; maybe I'll be back later this evening, kiddos...

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (pNxlR)

93 I'm going to put $20 down that says enough safe democrats vote for this POS to get to 50/50. Then the GOPe makes Trump unelectable in 2020 by forcing Pence to vote yea.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (npdX6)

94 Just put in "the right to free contract for health insurance and health services shall not be infringed" and "no price setting by third parties".

Posted by: MAGA at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (LQ1Q3)

95 If only there was a short, simple plan already passed once. Something like eight pages long. Something like ... HR 3762.

Passed both Houses in 2016. Enough people still there that passed it last time to pass it again.

Posted by: ScoggDog at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (a94gW)

96 "That doesn't sufficiently protect idiots from the consequences of their own bad decisions, so it's right out, I'm afraid."


I know you didn't intend it that way, but the irony of a nic like Joe, living dangerously saying that is......ironic.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (J+eG2)

97 Question: Does the Senate plan eliminate the employer mandate?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 01:58 PM (Hnqc1)

According to FBN this morning it eliminates the employer and the individual mandate.

Posted by: Tami at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (Enq6K)

98 Let's call it Pre-existing conditions what they are: Letting irresponsible people wait until they get sick, and then forcing responsible people to pay for their care.

If that's the deal, if that's the moral imperative Republicans insist on, then don't call it insurance. Create a Government program and raise taxes to cover it.

Posted by: V the K at June 22, 2017 02:08 PM (O7MnT)

99 You retarded chumps enjoy your next rectal exam, mkay?

Posted by: Gruber at June 22, 2017 02:08 PM (l4aLi)

100 Just saw on TV that this DOES eliminate Employer Mandate. That alone will go a long way to helping the economy and job market.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:08 PM (Hnqc1)

101 And the alt-right is correct. How's that for a bitter pill? I sure don't like the taste of it.
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (Abuxg)


4 Chan is now the good guys.

I MIGHT NOT FALL OVER THE INVISIBLE PUPPIES! My throwing out my knee standing up yesterday is irrelevant in this discussion.

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:09 PM (mf5HN)

102 I "Think" Rand and the others will come to a compromise but it will still stink and be a step on the road to GOV Healthcare of one sort or another that was set in stone when Fredocare passed.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2017 02:09 PM (5y11N)

103 So all of those prior House bills to kill Obamacare over the past 6 or so years were what, Failure Theater? Conservative Performance Art?? Willful Pwning of GOP Voters????




Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 02:09 PM (NOIQH)

104 Yep, this bitch is coming down, and when it does we're not going back to the way it was. We're getting the NHS here in the US. Patients dying of dehydration in the hallways and all.

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (jhqr1)




The Left: Civilized countries have government run healthcare. Why don't we want to be like those civilized countries? Of course we won't have it just you peasants dying in the hallways

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:09 PM (493sH)

105 93 I'm going to put $20 down that says enough safe democrats vote for this POS to get to 50/50. Then the GOPe makes Trump unelectable in 2020 by forcing Pence to vote yea.

Not taking that bet.

Posted by: Under Fire at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (l4aLi)

106 Let's call it Pre-existing conditions what they are: Letting irresponsible people wait until they get sick, and then forcing responsible people to pay for their care.

If that's the deal, if that's the moral imperative Republicans insist on, then don't call it insurance. Create a Government program and raise taxes to cover it.
Posted by: V the K at June 22, 2017 02:08 PM (O7MnT)

Having a "pre-exisiting" clause and leaving it intact means we are on the way to GOV.Health...there is NO if ands or buts about it. And not way around it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (5y11N)

107 Breaking: Trump says he has no tapes of conversations with the FBI's Idiot Former boss.


Zip's place

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (J+eG2)

108 I know you didn't intend it that way, but the irony of a nic like Joe, living dangerously saying that is......ironic.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:07 PM (J+eG2)

Heh. Did not occur to me. You sort of forget your nic after a while.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (KUaJL)

109 So all of those prior House bills to kill Obamacare over the past 6 or so years were what, Failure Theater? Conservative Performance Art?? Willful Pwning of GOP Voters????

Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 02:09 PM (NOIQH)


THey were lies and bullshit. The House never voted to repeal BarkyCare - which is what the lying liars liked to claim.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (rZ+mb)

110 I MIGHT NOT FALL OVER THE INVISIBLE PUPPIES! My throwing out my knee standing up yesterday is irrelevant in this discussion.

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:09 PM


*gigglesnort*

Posted by: The Invisible Puppies at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (p+Wdc)

111 83
66 I want a health insurance plan where if I pay into it most of my
adult life, with no major claims due to a major disease/condition, I get
all my money back plus interest when I reach retirement age.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (Hnqc1)



That doesn't sufficiently protect idiots from the consequences of their own bad decisions, so it's right out, I'm afraid.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:06 PM (KUaJL)

The entire point of insurance is that most people pay in and never collect. The problem here is that health insurance has become a means of payment for routine care, medications, etc. that should be paid out of pocket (or a medical savings account), and the insurance used by the few people who need it because of a serious illness or injury.

Posted by: Ted Nugent at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (jK8Z7)

112 Well, I'll continue to do what I have done for the last 10 years -- Survive without health insurance. The few times I've needed a doc, I've paid cash.

And with my long preexisting conditions, the premiums as of 2007 were $10k per year, so I've saved ~$100k so far. I invested the money wisely in hookers and blow (I wish).

Suck an egg, insurance companies AND Congress.

Posted by: GnuBreed at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (6jaju)

113 >>>99 You retarded chumps enjoy your next rectal exam, mkay?

Rectal exams are now a right guaranteed by the constitution. And they are to be performed by a group of at least six people. That's in the sixth amendment!

Posted by: wooga at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (3I7wr)

114 You guys fucked up. You trusted us.

Posted by: GOPe at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (npdX6)

115
4 chan and biker dudes. Leading the way out of the wilderness and into the future. Crowd sourced 'spectrum' kids and tatted up bikers.

Who could have seen that coming?

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (PduNE)

116
Fox Business reports that 4 GOP senators oppose this bill. Oh Trish Regan and Shelby Holliday

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (493sH)

117 It will be a fantastic "policy achievement", one that will let milquetoast politicians brag to their constituents about how centrist and moderate they are, making the best compromise possible.

It will be terrible policy, and insurance markets will continue on being unable to feign the slightest resemblance to their name.

Of course this is all just as expected, given that "repeal" was never allowed to be uttered without also adding "and replace".

Posted by: Sjg at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (gDSJf)

118 " You sort of forget your nic after a while."

You'd have to be some sort of Idiot to forget something like that.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (J+eG2)

119 They were lying Lizzy. They were playing us.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:12 PM (Abuxg)

120 The Federal Government will never give up power it has usurped for itself.

NEVER... won't happen...

Obamacare took control of 1/6 of the MONEY spent in the economy.... changing the fundamental way we PAID for healthcare, while not doing anything to actually cut the costs OF Healthcare...

The Senate bill does the same... it tinkers with the method of paying for healthcare...

Controlling the flow of wealth...

So the question becomes very simple... under what Constitutional Power is Congress even involved? What gives them the power to regulate how we pay our Doctors?... as my Doctor lives in my Town... and hell... I even have a LOCAL bank to pay him through?

Posted by: Don Q. at June 22, 2017 02:12 PM (NgKpN)

121 >>Patients dying of dehydration in the hallways and all.


*Killing* patients off via dehydration for NHS cash rewards.


Reminds me of the CO ballot last fall that included two items:
-- Single-payer health care
-- Assisted suicide

As if we needed a better illustration of the cognitive dissonance of the Obamacare sh#t sandwich.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 02:12 PM (NOIQH)

122 66 I want a health insurance plan where if I pay into it most of my adult life, with no major claims due to a major disease/condition, I get all my money back plus interest when I reach retirement age.
Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:03 PM (Hnqc1)

They have cancer insurance that does that.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (9GhFt)

123 The entire point of insurance is that most people pay in and never collect. The problem here is that health insurance has become a means of payment for routine care, medications, etc. that should be paid out of pocket (or a medical savings account), and the insurance used by the few people who need it because of a serious illness or injury.
Posted by: Ted Nugent at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (jK8Z7)

But Sandra Fluke's birth control is expensive, yo. She's a college student paying $50k a year that she's going not going to pay back but ignore that part. You can't expect a poor college student to pay that!

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (KUaJL)

124 Free market, autonomy, cash?

All those things would be failure in the eyes of Washington.

McTurtle wasn't going to look at it any other way.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (oVJmc)

125 Of course this is all just as expected, given that "repeal" was never allowed to be uttered without also adding "and replace".

I figured that was just politics, public relations, used to sound appealing. I didn't know they actually meant repeal and REPLACE

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (39g3+)

126 113 >>>99 You retarded chumps enjoy your next rectal exam, mkay?

Rectal exams are now a right guaranteed by the constitution. And they are to be performed by a group of at least six people. That's in the sixth amendment!

Posted by: wooga at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (3I7wr)


That's right. Law of the land bitches.

Posted by: John Boehner at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (l4aLi)

127 VETO VETO VETO

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (xAvrH)

128 I look at it through a particular lens.

Absent Obamacare, would this fix anything that was broken before Obamacare was created and what Obamacare failed to fix?

And I'm forced to answer: no.

Like Ace says, this is an Obamacare remedy, not a healthcare remedy. It really does show where the mind of the GOPe is and why they cannot be trusted.

A simple repeal would have done it. "Obamacare does not work, is not workable, and cannot be repaired. It's history." But nope. So GOP Delenda Est.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (eytER)

129 Having not read any of the comments to this point, if this bill contains penalties for not having insurance then they might as well fire up the debtors prison.

Homey don't play that game.

Posted by: Dick Cheneys' cat at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (u3li/)

130 ...the greatest policy achievement by a GOP Congress in my lifetime.

Let's not set the bar too high now, OK?

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (X8DLV)

131 Liverpool Washington Care Pathway.

Can I copyright this?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (J+eG2)

132 48
What the fuck ever.



I'm resigned to the fact that I literally go to work so some fucking
bastard somewhere can lay on their ass and fuck, use drugs, drink, sell
drugs, etc etc etc and never have to worry about taking responsibility
for their own life. Must be fucking nice to have your life be one
fucking big party thanks to those of us who actually feel some modicum
of shame for taking or availing ourselves of something we didn't earn.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:00 PM (vg8iE)

As one of my uncles put it, "I understand I have to pay for that woman laying on the couch watching Oprah. But why can't I get some work out of her?"

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 22, 2017 02:14 PM (jK8Z7)

133 I want a health insurance plan where if I pay into it most of my adult life, with no major claims due to a major disease/condition, I get all my money back plus interest when I reach retirement age.

Whole Life for healthcare. I like it. In a true free market, the actuarial risk could be determined and such a plan sold.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 02:14 PM (QQ+il)

134 So all of those prior House bills to kill Obamacare over the past 6 or so years were what, Failure Theater? Conservative Performance Art?? Willful Pwning of GOP Voters????

-----

Look at my right hand while I'll reach around and grab your wallet.

Posted by: GOPe, suckers at June 22, 2017 02:14 PM (suO/a)

135

Say what?

Sorry, I was thinking about Bebe and Gushka on election night...

Posted by: In Vino Veritits at June 22, 2017 02:14 PM (fcU1Y)

136 *Killing* patients off via dehydration for NHS cash rewards.


Reminds me of the CO ballot last fall that included two items:
-- Single-payer health care
-- Assisted suicide

As if we needed a better illustration of the cognitive dissonance of the Obamacare sh#t sandwich.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 02:12 PM (NOIQH)




There are NO death panels comrades. Now if you'll just wait in the hallway for the next doctor to see you in a decade or two

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:14 PM (493sH)

137 So the question becomes very simple... under what
Constitutional Power is Congress even involved? What gives them the
power to regulate how we pay our Doctors?... as my Doctor lives in my
Town... and hell... I even have a LOCAL bank to pay him through?



Posted by: Don Q. at June 22, 2017 02:12 PM


It's a tax, bitchez!

*gavel drop*

Posted by: John Roberts at June 22, 2017 02:14 PM (p+Wdc)

138 115
4 chan and biker dudes. Leading the way out of the wilderness and into the future. Crowd sourced 'spectrum' kids and tatted up bikers.

Who could have seen that coming?
Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (PduNE)

Some of the Founding Fathers were smugglers....

The Boston Tea Party was concocted in a Bar...

Posted by: Don Q. at June 22, 2017 02:15 PM (NgKpN)

139 The entire point of insurance is that most people pay in and never
collect. The problem here is that health insurance has become a means of
payment for routine care, medications, etc. that should be paid out of
pocket (or a medical savings account), and the insurance used by the few
people who need it because of a serious illness or injury.


What we call 'insurance' is actually a maintenance plan, or a service contract.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 22, 2017 02:15 PM (oVJmc)

140 *taps chin*

Well it certainly is an interesting creation.
https://hlj.com/product/AMXAX-1007/Fig

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:15 PM (BlEnL)

141 Must be fucking nice to have your life be one fucking big party thanks to those of us who actually feel some modicum of shame for taking or availing ourselves of something we didn't earn.
_______________________

Have you seen what the government in the UK is going to do about the homeless folks from the Grenfell fire? They've bought 68 luxury apartments in Kensington, one of the most expensive neighborhoods in London.

So they're moving a bunch of "immigrant" welfare recipients and illegal aliens into multi-million dollar apartments. Can you imagine being one of the suckers who laid out $5 or $6 million for one of those apartments, only to find that you're now living in a "council" (i.e. welfare or Section building?

Must also suck to be a UK taxpayer, knowing that your taxes are going to pay for luxury housing for "immigrant" Abdul and his four wives.

What a stupid time to be alive.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at June 22, 2017 02:15 PM (nS5LK)

142 Thomas Sowell's "three questions" come to mind.

1. Compared to what?
2. At what cost?
3. What hard evidence do you have?

Unfortunately, these are generally unasked where they are most needed.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (wB8Tg)

143 The entire point of insurance is that most people pay in and never collect.

Correct, that's the only way it can work. Most of the people involved can't collect on it or the whole system fails. Its designed to steal money from people, like a Ponzi scheme. As soon as too many people start pulling money out, it falls apart.

And with the baby boomers aging, that's going to start happening soon. Which is why this kind of crap is being done; they know in congress that we're going to run out of social security and all those aging boomers are going to bankrupt the entire nation with pensions and medical costs. They spent decades kicking the can down the road and now they're doing stupid stuff to try to replace it.

Why do you thin the Obama administration put all those idiotic ads out meant to target young people? They needed everyone under the age of 40 paying into Obamacare and not benefiting from it, or it collapses entirely. It was a moronic scheme from the very start.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (39g3+)

144 Ted Cruz was 100% right to filibuster this before it became operational. If the rest of the Republicans had that same conviction, they could have delayed implementation until they had a chance to pass the replacement/repeal.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (Hnqc1)

145 >>The Federal Government will never give up power it has usurped for itself.



NEVER... won't happen...




Yes of my primary concerns about Obamacare was the electronic records/Obamacare Hub. Knew right away that the lure of bureaucrats having easy access to everyone's medical records was just too tempting. So many different ways to use this info --- for our own good, of course!



Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (NOIQH)

146 My anger about this is tempered by the fact that I was pretty sure this program would remain on the books forever, as soon as it went operational.

Yep, which is why it was so important to stop it from ever happening in the first place, which we blew.

Posted by: Oedipus at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (kc2M1)

147 Let's call it Pre-existing conditions what they are: Letting irresponsible people wait until they get sick, and then forcing responsible people to pay for their care.

If that's the deal, if that's the moral imperative Republicans insist on, then don't call it insurance. Create a Government program and raise taxes to cover it.
Posted by: V the K at June 22, 2017 02:08 PM (O7MnT)



Can we define out terms please?

Because my pre-existing condition of being fat is a billionty percent due to my being irresponsible.

My pre-existing condition of having a severe thyroid disorder which is treatable but incurable and which first manifested when I was 16 and probably first occurred when I was 11, as best that can be told from the bone scans, is not.

How about type 1 diabetes?

We go through this every single time. There is a difference in kind between life style based pre-existing conditions and those over which a person has no control. Conflating the two serves only to destroy the ability to discuss the matter.

Again, I have no good solution to this, though I thought the no coverage for pre-existing conditions for the first year of insurance coverage worked okay. But let's not pretend that all pre-existing conditions are due to irresponsibility.

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (mf5HN)

148 My first brush with the wonderful Canadian healthcare system *spit* was when I had horrible stomach pains for three months.

It took that long to get an appointment.

I spent three minutes in the doctor's office explaining what I'd experienced. The Dr asked me if my poop was Bible black. I said no. He said he wasn't convinced it was an ulcer ... and sent me away.

That's it. No treatment, no tests, no plan, be gone.

When I got back to the US I saw another Dr. He ran a couple of tests and found out I had some kind of stomach bacteria. Gave me an antibacterial course and some probiotics to follow that to promote my gut bacteria afterward. I felt great in a week.

Oh, and that Canadian Dr visit wasn't free. It cost about the same as my US Dr visit.

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 02:17 PM (jhqr1)

149 If Trump vetoes it, it will force RINOs to either vote for it (and lose their next election), or it will go down in flames.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 22, 2017 02:17 PM (xAvrH)

150 The problem here is that health insurance has become a means of payment for routine care, medications, etc. that should be paid out of pocket (or a medical savings account), and the insurance used by the few people who need it because of a serious illness or injury.



Then quit paying for illegals and those without insurance and charging me $22 for two tylenols.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2017 02:17 PM (j+h+K)

151 The entire point of insurance is that most people pay in and never collect. The problem here is that health insurance has become a means of payment for routine care, medications, etc. that should be paid out of pocket (or a medical savings account), and the insurance used by the few people who need it because of a serious illness or injury.
Posted by: Ted Nugent at June 22, 2017 02:10 PM (jK8Z7)


What he's describing though is more like whole life insurance than what we have now (not exactly, but close.)
Actuarially it should be possible (though I have no idea what the premiums would be.)

The current system is a mess. My wife gave birth, we did all the newborn stuff and still didn't come close to spending what our premiums were. (not that we *should* just noting that's what's numbers we're spending.)

I had 2 sleep studies the following year plus a new CPAP, outpatient surgery to remove a growth from my nose and some other incidental stuff and still came in under the premium spending. (Accounting for employer contributions.)

Which is phenomenal when you think about it. Insurance is basically priced to the point that actual insurable events still cost less than it does.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:17 PM (dzmBR)

152 If I read this correctly, it's another massive entitlement/crony capitalism sop like the prescription drug program.
-----

I know there are a lot of people who hate Medicare Part D, but for those who were self employed, it was amazing.

My Dad was self-employed and the best Blue Cross individual policy he could get did not have prescription drug coverage. He was paying around $400 to $500 a month for his drugs. Medicare Part D passed the year after he passed away.

Do you have an extra $500 a month to pay out if you're sick and on disablity?

Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (aT+Bx)

153 A man goes into the doctors office and asks when the next appointment is available. The receptionist says 4 years 2 months and 26 days from now. The man asks if that is in the morning or the afternoon. Receptionist laughs and asks what difference it makes, it is 4 years away. The man says well my wife said she would give me a BJ in the afternoon.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (npdX6)

154 Have you seen what the government in the UK is going to do about the homeless folks from the Grenfell fire? They've bought 68 luxury apartments in Kensington, one of the most expensive neighborhoods in London.

So they're moving a bunch of "immigrant" welfare recipients and illegal aliens into multi-million dollar apartments. Can you imagine being one of the suckers who laid out $5 or $6 million for one of those apartments, only to find that you're now living in a "council" (i.e. welfare or Section building?

Must also suck to be a UK taxpayer, knowing that your taxes are going to pay for luxury housing for "immigrant" Abdul and his four wives.

What a stupid time to be alive.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at June 22, 2017 02:15 PM (nS5LK)
=======

I don't and never will understand why the Welfare Class gets to drive policy of any kind. They contribute nothing, yet way too many fucking people fall all over themselves to accommodate their every fucking whim.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (vg8iE)

155 Avik Roy. A Vic Roi? Vic for King!!! I want Vic granted absolute power at this point. I don't care. It couldn't be any worse than this.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (xAvrH)

156 Appears it's the Senators who believe it doesn't go far enough. I like the list sans Paul. I'm confident they will get some of their recommended changes or additions before its voted on,

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (9GhFt)

157 The Dr asked me if my poop was Bible black.

Starless and Bible Black?

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 22, 2017 02:19 PM (s/EUv)

158 I don't and never will understand why the Welfare Class gets to drive policy of any kind. They contribute nothing, yet way too many fucking people fall all over themselves to accommodate their every fucking whim.

They vote - and they are happy to sell their votes to the highest bidder.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at June 22, 2017 02:19 PM (eytER)

159 Bible Black as in the anime?

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:19 PM (BlEnL)

160 I knew that once Obamacare became fully implemented it would never go away, just like any other government program. The "Golden Hour" for killing it was when the Republicans took the House - specifically given to them as the American people showed their opposition to Obamacare. They should have used their constitutionally authorized power of the purse to kill it - whatever the perceived political cost. And they didn't.

So there you have it.

Posted by: LGoPs at June 22, 2017 02:19 PM (EWZTH)

161 What he's describing though is more like whole life insurance than what we have now (not exactly, but close.)
Actuarially it should be possible (though I have no idea what the premiums would be.)


The problem is, the older you get, the more you need insurance.

What's needed is legislation and regulation reform that reduces costs and expenses for docs and med companies. Lower costs, and you fix the problem. The problem is not "too little insurance" its "too expensive health care"

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (39g3+)

162 >>>Of course this is all just as expected, given that "repeal" was never allowed to be uttered without also adding "and replace".

I figured that was just politics, public relations, used to sound appealing. I didn't know they actually meant repeal and REPLACE

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 02:13 PM (39g3+)


We've known this since Mittens started with the "repeal and replace" bullshit. There has never been anything to replace. But Mittens was a big fan of controlling my health insurance and all of my health care, from Washington, if he could, and he just couldn't contain his ultimate enthusiasm for that wet dream of his.

Trump, sadly, was also big on the bullshit "repeal and replace" crap. But ... you have to take the bad with the good. THe GOP Congress, however, has had no excuse - not for 7 years, now. THey are just lowlife, treasonous scumbags.

But ... sadly ... it was pretty easy to tell that the GOP turds were never going to do anything because they didn't even bother fighting BarkyCare's passage as strongly as they could. They pretend fought it ... but the Boner couldn't even find it in himself to force one single actual reading of any of the myriad 2500+ page "bills" that were floating around. ANd not just Boner, but none of the GOP Congresscritters demanded anything like that.

But ... what can you do? This is what we have and there doesn't seem to be any alternatives available. So, I'm just waiting for the monetary crash to put an end to this shit. It's not like there's a choice with that, anyway.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (rZ+mb)

163 I'll be pretty honest. Things are so f-d up in the health insurance market at this point, I don't have any really good answers.

To bring down costs would mean to do the politically (and maybe morally) untenable: reduce demand by getting rid of SS/Medicaid patients, allow for open competition, catastrophic only plans...

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (t06LC)

164 159 Bible Black as in the anime?

It's an anime thang? I thought it was a King Crimson reference.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (s/EUv)

165 The existing mob called the Welfare Class wants their bread

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (BlEnL)

166 I don't and never will understand why the Welfare Class gets to drive policy of any kind. They contribute nothing, yet way too many fucking people fall all over themselves to accommodate their every fucking whim.
--

They vote.


Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (aT+Bx)

167 What government taketh, it rarely giveth back.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (Cm8B0)

168 I don't and never will understand why the Welfare Class gets to drive policy of any kind. They contribute nothing, yet way too many fucking people fall all over themselves to accommodate their every fucking whim.
Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (vg8iE)

Don't mind me. Not like I had words on this subject 200 effin years ago.

Posted by: alexis de tocqueville at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (KUaJL)

169 Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (aT+Bx)

I have to admit, before Medicare D was passed, I always thought Medicare paid for medications. I was kind of shocked that it didn't.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (9GhFt)

170 OH by the way. When Obarky care passed health care was 16% of the economy. It is now 20% of the economy. That is known as bending the cost curve down.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:21 PM (npdX6)

171 157 The Dr asked me if my poop was Bible black.

Starless and Bible Black?

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 22, 2017 02:19 PM (s/EUv)

*shifty eyes*

I have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

*shifty eyes*

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:21 PM (KUaJL)

172 Well, one thing I'm taking cold comfort in....when my time comes, it's not like I'm going to be lingering in a hospital for very long. They'll need to usher me along expeditiously to make bed space available for the next victim.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (eytER)

173 WhatWhatWhat?

If can be both along with being a floor wax...

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (BlEnL)

174 The Dr asked me if my poop was Bible black.

And is it? Because that doesn't sound like a very good thing at all.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (qES5k)

175 156 Appears it's the Senators who believe it doesn't go far enough. I like the list sans Paul. I'm confident they will get some of their recommended changes or additions before its voted on,
Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:18 PM (9GhFt)

================================================

Yeah. I'm willing to bet Trump is going to have to get involved in the negotiations, though. Nothing happened in the House until Trump started going around Ryan.

Posted by: Wil'yam Shex'pir at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (Mfkgn)

176 Again, I have no good solution to this, though I
thought the no coverage for pre-existing conditions for the first year
of insurance coverage worked okay. But let's not pretend that all
pre-existing conditions are due to irresponsibility.

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (mf5HN)

THIS....from a fellow thyroid sufferer.

I have a sister that has benign MS. She's never smoked, never drank or any other 'lifestyle' habit that may cause medical problems. But she requires an extremely expensive medicine for her condition.

There are a shit ton of pre-existing conditions that have zero to do with lifestyle.

Posted by: Tami at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (Enq6K)

177 Yep, which is why it was so important to stop it from ever happening in the first place, which we blew.
_____________________

The constitution should have stopped it -- and would have, but for that asshole traitor John Roberts.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (nS5LK)

178 "I have to admit, before Medicare D was passed, I always thought Medicare paid for medications. I was kind of shocked that it didn't."

Imagine my surprise at Planned Parenthood.

I thought they offered education and planning classes.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (J+eG2)

179 Off faux Klingon sock.

Posted by: Jackal at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (Mfkgn)

180 Like the House plan, the Senate plan retains Obamacare's major insurance regulations, including the requirement to cover pre-existing conditions, at the federal level.



Can no one explain "moral hazard" to people?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (ujg0T)

181

This I don't understand, if the ind. mandate is gone but insurance companies have to take on peole with pre-existing conditions, how do they enforce that? As I understand, O'care did that by fining people who didn't by "approved" health care plans(with the pre-existing req.)... so it dried up the market for traditional health insurance. BUT, with the individual mandate gone, what's to stop a customer from signing up for a non-approved plan that won't accept people with pre-existing? Where's the enforcement mechanism?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (Hnqc1)

182 On the bright side, if I have to pay for "your healthcare," your fat ass is now "government business."

In the interests of controlling the deficit, I may finally achieve my dream of becoming a Federal Bikini Inspector.

Posted by: wooga at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (3I7wr)

183 OT - SJW Yale dean who insults white people on Yelp has stepped down.

http://tinyurl.com/y8yfuqgv

Posted by: josephistan at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (7HtZB)

184 How do you see the 4 chan stuff? Is there a general website?

Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (hZ+us)

185 Again, I have no good solution to this, though I thought the no coverage for pre-existing conditions for the first year of insurance coverage worked okay. But let's not pretend that all pre-existing conditions are due to irresponsibility.

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (mf5HN)


Everybody Must Play Pretend. It's basic human behavior.

Really *annoying* basic human behavior.

If it weren't for that, we'd probably be arguing about how to get to a post-scarcity society instead of trying to avoid dealing with the consequences of spending all the money in the world twice.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (wB8Tg)

186 I don't and never will understand why the Welfare Class gets to drive policy of any kind. They contribute nothing, yet way too many fucking people fall all over themselves to accommodate their every fucking whim.


They vote seven times.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (QQ+il)

187 "99 You retarded chumps enjoy your next rectal exam, mkay?"


I always do!! Free tonight?

Posted by: Shep Smith at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (OD2ni)

188 Glad to see The GOPe in action:

Illinois Man Arrested For Threatening To Assassinate Trump

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (udajc)

189 If can be both along with being a floor wax...

I just meant really deep black, like the cover of some Bibles.

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (jhqr1)

190 Again, I have no good solution to this, though I thought the no coverage for pre-existing conditions for the first year of insurance coverage worked okay. But let's not pretend that all pre-existing conditions are due to irresponsibility.
Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (mf5HN)


Right, but even the things that aren't life controllable responsibility dictates, to me, that you insure for.
I can't just wait until I get cancer (for argument's sake something that's not behavior related then go "well, now I need insurance."

For that matter, I don't want to punish some 11 year old because their parents are being irresponsible and damning him forever.

I think you're generally right that the old HIPAA rules about continuing coverage are better (perhaps insufficient, but better.)

I might add in something that under 18 year olds are exempt from pre-existing condition rules just to prevent a parent fucking up a kid's life with stupidity.

Part of this is that we've made insurance so fucking expensive you can't carry a low cost plan that maintains your ability to be insurable anymore. In the past I had friends do this, they'd take out a 10k deductible plan that met HIPAA continuing coverage reqs while they were near broke to maintain insurability. Now days that plan costs literally 700+/month.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (dzmBR)

191 I will say this however: If premiums come down, Trump will be able to declare victory, even if in the end we are left with a greater government role in health insurance and health care.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (ujg0T)

192 >>Have you seen what the government in the UK is going to do about the
homeless folks from the Grenfell fire? They've bought 68 luxury
apartments in Kensington, one of the most expensive neighborhoods in
London.


The only good thing about this is that Corbyn wanted to *confiscate* unused/underused real estate to house them.

They're doing this in other European countries to house refugees (Italy, France, Germany) - putting native people who are living in public housing on the streets, forcing people with rental properties and hotels to house refugees. It is absolute insanity - making citizens second class citizens in their own country, on their own dang property.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (NOIQH)

193 What most people think a Pre-Existing Condition Is: "My pre-existing condition of having a severe thyroid disorder which is treatable but incurable "

What the Government Treats as a Pre-Existing Condition: "I never bought insurance because I needed that money to update my iPhone and buy high-end kicks, now I have cancer."

Posted by: V the K at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (O7MnT)

194 fix or repair.
Whether it is here to stay it (likely) it WAS about the govt makin/forcing us eat broccoli although we didn't order or desire to eat it.

Posted by: willow at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (iS1Cb)

195 THIS....from a fellow thyroid sufferer.

I have a sister that has benign MS. She's never smoked, never drank or any other 'lifestyle' habit that may cause medical problems. But she requires an extremely expensive medicine for her condition.

There are a shit ton of pre-existing conditions that have zero to do with lifestyle.
Posted by: Tami at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (Enq6K)

===============================================

Asthma, Thyroid problems, and Depression here. There's "you fucked yourself up" preexisting and then there's "You drew a shitty hand" preexisting.

Posted by: Jackal at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (Mfkgn)

196 It seems far too many people are now arguing about what to do with the camel in the tent instead of trying to get the camel out of the tent.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (BlEnL)

197 Breitbart headline - GOP Senators announce that this bill does not repeal Obama care.

And in that sentence, I understand it. The cowardly GOP does not want to be the political party that repeals Obamacare and angers the 51 percent who voted for Obama twice. The GOP doesn't want the bad press, doesn't want the 51% to go all violent and rebellious. And the GOP doesn't care if this pisses off the 51% who voted for Trump.

This also proves that the democrats threats of violence works, and it proves that if we conservatives want change we will have to threaten more violence than the democrats.

This 'health care bill' is the legislative equivalent of Neville Chamberlains 'peace in our time'. It won't fix the problem, and it won't pacify either the democrats nor their allies in the media, nor will it quiet the conservatives, or the health care industry. This bill, by the GOP, is total failure, total capitulation, and nothing but a smokescreen of words that do nothing.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (m9X4Y)

198 Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:24 PM (dzmBR)

If I'm not mistaken I think this GOP plan allows for customized policies.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (9GhFt)

199 So we have two and a half more years to stockpile ammo and mags. Got it.

Posted by: Under Fire at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (l4aLi)

200 I live in Alberta Canada. 40% of our provincial budget goes to health care. It's a mouth that can never be stuffed fully enough. I think if you look at overall tax rate, 49.5% of all tax revenue (federal and provincial) goes towards health care. We have waiting lists. People suffer both morbidity (sickness) and mortality (death) as a result of being on those lists. No matter how much you spend, it's not enough. Add in a shadow illegal population who doesn't contribute to the tax base, and you're heading for a gigantic unexpected expenditure. That whole bullshit that Obama was talking about - bending the cost curve down - was a fable, and anyone with a brain knew it. Except for the CBO. Think on that one a bit.

Posted by: Lurker primus at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (yBgqh)

201 And is it? Because that doesn't sound like a very good thing at all.

No, it's not. Apparently the Dr was referring to what can happen to your poop if there's blood and bile there. It can look very dark. That was his "test" to see if I had an ulcer. That was the full extent of his "testing".

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 02:26 PM (jhqr1)

202 196 It seems far too many people are now arguing about what to do with the camel in the tent instead of trying to get the camel out of the tent.
Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (BlEnL)

You just want the camel to die on the streets, you h8r.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:26 PM (KUaJL)

203 Yep, this bitch is coming down, and when it does we're not going back to the way it was. We're getting the NHS here in the US. Patients dying of dehydration in the hallways and all.
Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (jhqr1)




Will we at least be able to pay out of pocket for private clinics?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 22, 2017 02:26 PM (ujg0T)

204 I don't think pre-existing conditions has anything to do with lifestyle choices, its more of a bad bet. My mom had ovarian cancer and she couldn't get med insurance because of that.
Insurance at its purest form is a person saying "I bet you my premium I will get sick this year". The insurance company says "I bet you your coverage you won't". Taking the bet after the die is cast is just dumb on the company's part.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:26 PM (t06LC)

205 Slightly off topic: Gibbon was way off base in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

He blamed Christianity, while the true problem was the welfare state they created, which also covered non-citizens.

Most western democracies now spend more than two thirds of their budgets on welfare related items. No wonder we are broke. How about the one half of the population that sits on their asses all day begin to help pull the wagon?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2017 02:26 PM (7ZVPa)

206 Seriously, what fucking part of REPEAL OBAMACARE did the GOP have a problem understanding?

Get rid of them, get rid of them all. Instill Term Limits. And when you leave office you leave with what you came in with.

NO PENSION
NO LIFETIME HEALTHCARE

NOTHING!!!!!

You are an elected official, not the winner of a lottery.

Posted by: Scuba Dude at June 22, 2017 02:26 PM (WsJuq)

207 "It seems far too many people are now arguing about what to do with the camel in the tent instead of trying to get the camel out of the tent."

Leave the camel inside the tent.


Step outside tent.



Set tent on fire



Buy new tent


Don't let camel nose under new tent.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:27 PM (J+eG2)

208 >>>Can no one explain "moral hazard" to people?

Wasn't that Roscoe P Coltrane?

Posted by: wooga at June 22, 2017 02:27 PM (3I7wr)

209 That whole bullshit that Obama was talking about - bending the cost curve down - was a fable, and anyone with a brain knew it. Except for the CBO. Think on that one a bit.
___________________

Oh, they all knew it was a lie. They just didn't give a shit.

They're all government employees, who can never be fired, and who have gold-plated, taxpayer-funded health insurance for life.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at June 22, 2017 02:27 PM (nS5LK)

210 Obamacare was designed to be a minefield to repeal. It was designed to blow up on anyone who tried.

Per se, discombobulating Obamacare without thorough planning, both policy-wise and in regards to shaping public opinion.

The later is especially important because the Dems are already saying the GOP wants to take everyone's healthcare away, and they are preemptively framing the debate, and doing so without a decent response.

People like to feel secure and taken care off. They don't want uncertainty, and most will opt for guaranteed but crappy care vs. maybe getting great care. The Dems have scared people -- both the GOPe and the hardcore repealers -- are surrendering all those voters by not addressing this issue.

Per se, step-wise deconstruction is not necessarily a bad plan. Doing some stuff, and then waiting for things to adjust may be necessary, not only to not scare the LIVs, but to avoid setting off any of the landmines in Obamacare. Of course, the GOP needs to communicate this -- something they seem incapable of doing.

Frankly, the GOP needed to win the argument before the repeal bill was even written. This is a clear strategic failure.

I still believe that the optimal path forward is to go full repeal, but do it in a way that will make people feel secure that their healthcare won't be taken away or become even more expensive. To wit:

1. Outright Repeal of Obamacare.

2. Minimize the regulatory burden and maximize the opportunities for people to come up with better solutions, including allowing purchase of insurance across state lines.

3. Phase out Obamacare over a period of time so that those opportunities have a chance to work and thus demonstrate that people have an actual working alternative.

4. Grandfather people in on their Obamacare plans (if you want to keep your plan, you really will be able to unlike with Obamacare, which would be a winning campaign issue). If things work out, you won't have to worry about people staying on them for very long.

5. Make it clear that any issues not addressed by the free market will be looked into by the government -- this further makes people feel safe and secure about not losing healthcare or not being able to pay for it. Since this is based on future outcomes, no specific promised can be made, so no specific plan can even be offered.

6. Treat Medicare as a separate issue.

This addresses concerns about losing healthcare or financially being ruined to pay for it, while repealing Obamacare and maximizing the opportunities for the private sector to eliminate the perceived need for Obamacare, Medicare, or single-payer.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (vBeA5)

211 Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at June 22, 2017 02:20 PM (39g3+)

Yes, and the older you get the more likely your whole life plan is to pay out at any given moment.
I said it was actuarially possible, I didn't say I had any idea how much it would cost.

But from a actuary perspective it's a matter of setting price based on entry age and such.

Now there's a secondary problem that at end of life we tend to spend mountains of cash, this is true, but in this model that could be accounted for.
(Personally it's a cultural thing I'd like to change, but short of me lecturing on Catholic moral theory and ordinary/extraordinary care and obligatory treatments vs. optional, dunno how that happens.)

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (dzmBR)

212 Camels are smelly, dirty, obnoxious, and they drool. So no I don't want it in the tent.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (BlEnL)

213 174 The Dr asked me if my poop was Bible black.

And is it? Because that doesn't sound like a very good thing at all.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (qES5k)

Better than words of Jesus red.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (Cm8B0)

214 The best strategy politically and fiscally is to let Obamacare fail. The Democrats and the Democrats alone own it. Cut off anyone who is not currently enrolled. No more participants. I'd like to hear one GOPer say, it was passed on lie after lie. You could not keep your doctor, you could not keep your plan, you did not save $2500 per family. Go back and make the dems answer for their revenue neutral, phony CBO score. What was the estimate and what are the actual numbers. Show how they raided Medicare.
Why is it so hard to say the the dems lied, they ruined the healthcare system, they won't fix it, and we have to step in and do something.
Let it fail by choking it off. Repeal the mandate and offer free market solutions.
People don't understand the overall picture because the dems/media are out there screaming and the republicans have ZERO communications skills. EXPLAIN and SHOW the lies vs. the reality of this disaster. How many actually got covered because they had no insurance or PE conditions, how many got covered who DID NOT and DO NOT want it who only have it because they were kicked off their plans. how many actually got Medicaid, and how many people now are faced with financial hardship because the costs and deductibles are unaffordable.

Posted by: flowerbelle1 at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (AkAvN)

215 Will we at least be able to pay out of pocket for private clinics?
Posted by: Curmudgeon



If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (j+h+K)

216 There is no evidence that any of this is ever going to be fixed, or even improved. The reason is simple, the central government has been given authority and control over our health care, and they will never give it back no matter what party you're talking about.

The voters have been asking for this crap for >two generations, and now has it. So they won't ask for it to be taken away, either. They are now going to get what they wanted, good and hard.

Expect inevitable total collapse and widespread suffering. More 'bad luck'.

People have been getting sick and dying tragically since time immemorial.
You can count on that continuing apace. Plan your life accordingly.

Posted by: The real Henderson James at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (7A6l6)

217 if poo anime is a thing, someone should tweet Kurt Eichenwald to research it.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (ZM/Co)

218 "It seems far too many people are now arguing about what to do with the camel in the tent instead of trying to get the camel out of the tent."
________________________

I'm at the point where I'm ready to shoot the f*cking camel in the head and burn the f*cking tent down.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (nS5LK)

219 There are a shit ton of pre-existing conditions that have zero to do with lifestyle.

Posted by: Tami at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (Enq6K)


Unfortunately, fighting over it is far more attractive than focusing on becoming the kind of country where this is not that big a problem.

You have to be a pretty rich country have a rich country lifestyle, but everyone wants the lifestyle stuff first.

It's like someone who gets their first job then blows their first paycheck at Rent-To-Own and can't pay the rent.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:29 PM (wB8Tg)

220 Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (hZ+us)

www.4chan.org.

I find that site incredibly confusing, but good luck!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2017 02:29 PM (qES5k)

221 How about the one half of the population that sits on their asses all day begin to help pull the wagon?
========

Allowing people to languish in their own self-made hells at others' expense is somehow called "compassion."

How about a "no work, no eat" policy. It may sound cruel, but you know what? It gives you a fucking reason to get out of bed everyday.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:29 PM (vg8iE)

222 Illinois Man Arrested For Threatening To Assassinate Trump

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2017 02:23 PM (udajc)




FBI: Now wait a minute he didn't have any particular target in mind and we can't find any intent.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (493sH)

223 217 if poo anime is a thing,


----
DO NOT GOOGLE

Posted by: josephistan at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (7HtZB)

224 It is depressingly clear that the 2012 election set this country on a course for which it may never recover (FU Chris Christie). That was the last chance for a clean repeal of Obamacare before it became operational. I still think there should be a full repeal, but do have some sympathy for Congressional Repubs that it is messy politically.

Posted by: Benji Carver at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (OD2ni)

225 If I'm not mistaken I think this GOP plan allows for customized policies.
Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (9GhFt)


I'm sure it in now way won't be a disaster.
:eyeroll:

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (dzmBR)

226 Step outside tent.



Set tent on fire



Buy new tent


Don't let camel nose under new tent.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:27 PM (J+eG2)

Forget the nose, what about the camel's toes?

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (t06LC)

227 Don't ask about trying to buy whole life at 59, as a cancer survivor.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (J+eG2)

228 Posted by: Insomniac at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (Cm8B0)

Neither color is optimal.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (qES5k)

229 The congress are badly monitored employees. I freely admit I've done nothing to monitor mine, but then I live in NY, so why bother? We have too many employers, many of whom have no interest in monitoring the day to day activities of their feckless representatives.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 22, 2017 02:31 PM (xAvrH)

230 13 Let it fucking fail.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (80X3Z)

Yes....pain. Keep the pain coming but work on other campaign promises. Like the wall and controlling immigration, tax reform to name a couple. They ant nothin.

Wait till Obamacare is so horrible that surrender is unconditional. Not yeeet...waaait for iiiit.....now!....then full repeal.

But the GOP cant find its ass with both hands and I'm some douche spouting off on eh internets.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at June 22, 2017 02:31 PM (O5bec)

231 Neither is Ebola red a great colour.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:31 PM (BlEnL)

232
And is it? Because that doesn't sound like a very good thing at all.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2017 02:22 PM (qES5k)


It means there's blood in your stool a sure sign of an ulcer

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at June 22, 2017 02:31 PM (lKyWE)

233

I got sodomized by a camel once. It hurt at first, but then it felt wonderful...

I keep a stained panty shield in my Trapper Keeper to remember him...

Posted by: John Roberts at June 22, 2017 02:31 PM (fcU1Y)

234 Most western democracies now spend more than two thirds of their budgets on welfare related items. No wonder we are broke. How about the one half of the population that sits on their asses all day begin to help pull the wagon?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2017 02:26 PM (7ZVPa)



That would be racist

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:31 PM (493sH)

235 I've had health insurance since birth, have stayed at jobs I hated so I'd never go without, paid extra in premiums to have the best (and went without fund money), am trapped in my current job because after all that, I ended up with an incurable, expensive, progressive disease that's not fatal (MS). And I do everything the doctors tell me, take my meds like I have OCD, but with what they're doing I still think, that even though I did everything "right", to protect myself from catastrophe, I'm going to end up in a wheelchair, deranged, in a "government run facility" and without care. Because the "betters" are going to fix it. Fuckers.

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 02:31 PM (6FY0P)

236 It seems far too many people are now arguing about what to do with the camel in the tent instead of trying to get the camel out of the tent.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (BlEnL)


Does anyone want to talk about why we live in a tent?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:32 PM (wB8Tg)

237 225 If I'm not mistaken I think this GOP plan allows for customized policies.
Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:25 PM (9GhFt)

I'm sure it in now way won't be a disaster.
:eyeroll:
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (dzmBR)

Maybe but I know that's been one of the things people here have been demanding.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (9GhFt)

238 I'm sure these will be the regulations that finally bring costs down.

no. but really, the government has to seize this portion of the economy to prop their pensions and voting bloc up for a while longer with the skim, which will be about half.

Posted by: The Original REAL Galactic Lord Sir Covfefe at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (nFwvY)

239 185 Again, I have no good solution to this, though I thought the no coverage for pre-existing conditions for the first year of insurance coverage worked okay. But let's not pretend that all pre-existing conditions are due to irresponsibility.

Posted by: alexthechick - here gutter gutter gutter at June 22, 2017 02:16 PM (mf5HN)

True. I have some hereditary, preexisting conditions, one of which is an autoimmune disorder that, unless controlled by very expensive medication, will probably cripple me eventually. There is no relationship to lifestyle choices or anything within my control.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (Cm8B0)

240 Does anyone want to talk about why we live in a tent?

Because the camel has already destroyed the house.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (BlEnL)

241 There is no evidence that any of this is ever going to be fixed, or even improved. The reason is simple, the central government has been given authority and control over our health care, and they will never give it back no matter what party you're talking about.


Posted by: The real Henderson James at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (7A6l6)


And, since they have authority over your health care they now have authority over every little thing you do - since everything you do "affects" your health. Owning a gun has been pushed as a "health care" issue for some years, now. That is not where it ends. It is only useful to define as a health care issue so that the feral government can then decide if you're allowed to do it or not. It doesn't matter if you have a Constitutional right. The "cost" that the feral government makes up about it, in terms of "health care", becomes the operative aspect and, from that, the control is taken.

This will extend to everything that comes into the pea-brain of some Congresscritter or President. ANything they don't like will be termed a "health care issue" and the feral government will then have power to Rule over it ... since "it costs us all money".

Control the health care of people and control what is defined as a health issue and you have achieved total control over every little aspect of the lives of those people.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (rZ+mb)

242 And then you wonder why the GOP Congress is allowing this farce of a witch hunt against a GOP President.
Its to neuter him when it comes to fighting the establishment.

Posted by: Iblis at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (9221z)

243 How about a "no work, no eat" policy. It may sound cruel, but you know what? It gives you a fucking reason to get out of bed everyday.
--

You want welfare?

You have to work.

Also... there are loopholes in the unemployment laws as well that might be useful to fix. I know people who have collected employment every year since 1980 due to "lack of work" in the off season.

That seems... wrong to me.

Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (aT+Bx)

244 In general. Not specifics.

The folks who disburse these goods/services would like to have a guaranteed payment stream as they get stiffed from time to time and also have to negotiate with ins co. the rest of the time. So margins. Thus, the problem with republicans doing away with "a big solutions to health care" - since they will be saying NO to their paying customers ( hospital and insurance company lobbies).

The thing about government is, it never seems to know that It always does more harm than good when it does something.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
*Yikes*

Posted by: simplemind at June 22, 2017 02:34 PM (Grp5y)

245 Forget the nose, what about the camel's toes?
Posted by: Jollyroger




Better than a moose's knuckle!

Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2017 02:34 PM (j+h+K)

246 Maybe but I know that's been one of the things people here have been demanding.
Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (9GhFt)


Right, but we want market freedom. The structure of this bill precludes that from the starting gate.

It's like saying Obamacare had custom plans (as long as you met their minimum EHB requirements!)

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:34 PM (dzmBR)

247 There are a shit ton of pre-existing conditions that have zero to do with lifestyle.


It doesn't matter. Hard cases make bad law.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 02:34 PM (QQ+il)

248 Control the health care of people and control what is defined as a health issue and you have achieved total control over every little aspect of the lives of those people.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at June 22, 2017 02:33 PM (rZ+mb)


The re-birth of biopolitcs!

We're reliving Foucault!

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:35 PM (dzmBR)

249 The left wouldn't learn a single thing from Obamacare failure. They live in denial, they would blame someone else like they always do - Trump, Congress, "the wrong people in charge."

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:35 PM (wB8Tg)

250 This Roy character, based on this and a few other exposures to his thinking, is sort of the prototypical effectively-stupid Beltway type: his assumptions and starting points are so far out of touch with reality and common sense that his "analysis" is irrelevant.

The GOP's uselessness on this is far darker and less amusing than much of the snark here might suggest.

Things that seem uniformly and vigorously forgotten, or ignored, but which are the key points: prior to O-care (and for the 20 years of prior Dem agitation on the issue) there was no large popular support for anything like this; the unpopularity of this abomination survived its enactment; O-care "benefits" a tiny handful of people, while it invisibly hurts tens of millions and visibly and dramatically damages 2 to 3 times the number it "benefits".

The broken link between representative govt. and representation is complete. Aside from rent-seekers ("insurance" companies, Kaiser, et al), the program has no important supporters. It has never worked, started shrinking/crumbling almost the instant it went operational, and is unsustainable, even in the short term. It was never desired or popular. Yet the GOP cannot bring itself to repeal it.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 22, 2017 02:35 PM (QDnY+)

251 My way to fix insurance

1) divorce employment from insurance. My boss doesn't help insure my car

2) no comprehensive plans: think auto insurance again. No companies cover new wipers. Why? Not worth the cost and you're sure to need it.

3) allow competition over state lines - don't let states mandate a bunch of unneeded bullshit and regulations. it drives up costs

4) Medicaid/Medicare - here is a real cost driver. They reimburse docs at 40-50% of cost, which the docs pass along to the insured. Not a lot of good answers there. But, here is a real problem.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:35 PM (t06LC)

252 >>I've had health insurance since birth, have stayed at jobs I hated so
I'd never go without, paid extra in premiums to have the best....

Yes, our son was born with heart defects, and we knew as soon as they were detected that this would require use to never be without healthcare to avoid a pre-existing condition problem with coverage. And it wouldn't have mattered if he were born in Canada or UK, because they don't bother doing the lifesaving heart surgeries he needed; parents have no choice but to let their kid die. That's how single-payer systems deal with some types of pre-existing conditions - they never let them exist at all.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 02:36 PM (NOIQH)

253 It was over when John Roberts declared it a tax. An ent.itlement, once enacted, never goes away. Ever.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 22, 2017 02:36 PM (kTF2Z)

254 223 217 if poo anime is a thing,


----
DO NOT GOOGLE

Posted by: josephistan at June 22, 2017 02:30 PM (7HtZB)


Yeah also I learned the hard way, don't search 'jocks' or 'athletic supporter' on amazon. For fucks sake just review the damn product. Don't selfie your junk 10 times from every fucking angle. wtf?

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at June 22, 2017 02:36 PM (O5bec)

255
And, since they have authority over your health care they now have authority over every little thing you do - since everything you do "affects" your health. Owning a gun has been pushed as a "health care" issue for some years, now. That is not where it ends. It is only useful to define as a health care issue so that the feral government can then decide if you're allowed to do it or not. It doesn't matter if you have a Constitutional right. The "cost" that the feral government makes up about it, in terms of "health care", becomes the operative aspect and, from that, the control is taken.


This will extend to everything that comes into the pea-brain of some Congresscritter or President. ANything they don't like will be termed a "health care issue" and the feral government will then have power to Rule over it ... since "it costs us all money".


Control the health care of people and control what is defined as a health issue and you have achieved total control over every little aspect of the lives of those people.
--

Coming soon:

"I'm sorry Shibumi, your credit card records indicate that you spend much too much on sugary foods. That puts in you in danger of obesity. We're going to have to raise your health insurance rates."

Also applicable for alcohol/ cigarettes/ junk food/ carbohydrates

/which is why Shibumi pays cash, muthaeffers.

Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:36 PM (aT+Bx)

256 Question on pre-existing conditions: If I have a pre-existing condition and currently have insurance, does that mean I am locked in to that company? If I shop around and try to find a cheaper plan does the new company say "sorry, can't cover the pre-existing condition".

I truly do not know and would like an answer.


Posted by: LGoPs at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (EWZTH)

257 and you people call me stupid. 2020 will be a cake walk.
Oh, cake will be banned by the way.

Posted by: Kamala Harris at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (l4aLi)

258 Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:35 PM (t06LC)

Problem with #1 is it's entrenched by the tax subsidies created as a result of FDR's meddling in salaries.

So...how do we do that short of taxing insurance as income?

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (dzmBR)

259 This could all be fixed, theoretically. But a sufficient number of voters are stupid, lazy, or FSA so that it is doubtful that it will be.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (xAvrH)

260 220: Thanks. I had tried that one before and thought it was wrong- it IS very confusing!

Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (hZ+us)

261 Also... there are loopholes in the unemployment laws as well that might be useful to fix. I know people who have collected employment every year since 1980 due to "lack of work" in the off season.

That seems... wrong to me.


I've met seasonal workers like this. Loggers and roofers who work like dogs part of the year, but sit on welfare in the off season. I get that some towns, like logging towns, just don't offer work off season, but there has to be a better way.

Posted by: bonhomme at June 22, 2017 02:38 PM (jhqr1)

262 Camels are smelly, dirty, obnoxious, and they drool. So no I don't want it in the tent.
Posted by: Anna Puma


Uu are wooman haiter!

Posted by: camel uh haaarith at June 22, 2017 02:38 PM (udajc)

263 Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:35 PM (t06LC)

I don't think it's 40 to 50%. There is a comparison reimbursement chart to private insurance you can google . It's 10 to 20% from what I've seen. In any event I think the cost of medical care is out of control.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:39 PM (9GhFt)

264 We're still covered right?

Posted by: Hundreds Of Thousands Of H1-B Slaves at June 22, 2017 02:39 PM (l4aLi)

265 Parade of horrible - unintended effects of do goodism

So the wife's health insurance is through her job, a really big hospital system. They will give you a "break" on your contribution to the insurance if you do certain things. first if was stop smoking. Then it was Lose weight, maintain weight.

Now you have to count your steps/ exercise on regular basis. They handed out those little chip things for your shoe laces.

There is no end to the intrusiveness of those who wish to "help" you and save their own money at the same time.

Eventually, death panels.

Sure they won't actually kill you at first. They will just make you come in for an appointment every 30 days to listen to someone tell you how futile your life is anyway, until you finally agree to throw in the towel. They'll save millions and millions that way and they know it. Count on it happening. The incentive is too great.

Posted by: simplemind at June 22, 2017 02:39 PM (FhhvE)

266 Regarding fatasses, when we were forced to sign up for this shit sandwich there were 2 questions.

How much money do you make?

Do you smoke?

That's it. No questions about diet, drug use, alcohol use, lifestyle risks such as skiing or jumping out of airplane for fun, etc.

Posted by: flyover at June 22, 2017 02:39 PM (aUHJk)

267 We may never know the motive.It was a random stabbing,

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/268217/

Posted by: steevy at June 22, 2017 02:40 PM (rmVvL)

268

Look on the bright side, maybe the "singularity" will make all this moot.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:40 PM (Hnqc1)

269 I just can't get that worked up about the Obamacare replacement. The markets need some stability, and Obama fucked us, so this has to be fixed with small steps. Just my opinion, formed without having studied it at all (so I'm just like a legislator!)

Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:40 PM (hZ+us)

270
Yeah also I learned the hard way, don't search 'jocks' or 'athletic supporter' on amazon. For fucks sake just review the damn product. Don't selfie your junk 10 times from every fucking angle. wtf?
Posted by: Cannibal Bob at June 22, 2017 02:36 PM (O5bec)


Yeah I guess athletic supporters are now like lingerie for gay men

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (lKyWE)

271 www.4chan.org.

I find that site incredibly confusing, but good luck!


Even better...
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/

Not for the faint of heart. Or the easily offended. But actually f_ck the easily offended. Our constitution provided no specific safe space for the easily offended.

You don't like what they say? Turn off your computer.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (PduNE)

272 Pay for my insurance.

Posted by: Fat ass smoker/drug user at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (8b+oT)

273 Are you kidding? The Vogon built hyperspace bypass is looking like a good thing. Humans should have never left the trees.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (BlEnL)

274 256 Question on pre-existing conditions: If I have a pre-existing condition and currently have insurance, does that mean I am locked in to that company? If I shop around and try to find a cheaper plan does the new company say "sorry, can't cover the pre-existing condition".

I truly do not know and would like an answer.


Posted by: LGoPs at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (EWZTH)

That's the way it was for me regard to preexisting surgery to my knee.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (9GhFt)

275 As a small business owner with an LLC, If they just allowed me to write off every penny of out of pocket health care expenses (just like corporations can do) that would solve about 90% of my issues with ObamaCare.

I'm no wonk, but why not start there?

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (hMxr+)

276 It must be a tremendously demoralizing circumstance when every now and
then somebody around you gets shot, and you have no idea where the
bullet came from, and probably didn't eve

Posted by: amy schumer at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (nlbfN)

277 273 Are you kidding? The Vogon built hyperspace bypass is looking like a good thing. Humans should have never left the trees.
Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (BlEnL)

Trees? Nonsense. Even leaving the oceans was a bad move.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 02:42 PM (KUaJL)

278 I just can't get that worked up about the Obamacare replacement. The markets need some stability, and Obama fucked us, so this has to be fixed with small steps. Just my opinion, formed without having studied it at all (so I'm just like a legislator!)



Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:40 PM (hZ+us)

===========

Why don't you put her in charge!?!?!

Posted by: Pvt. Hudson at June 22, 2017 02:42 PM (vg8iE)

279 I mean seriously, what good is winning elections if our guys pull this crap? Are there no hills to die on?

Maybe I'll be proven wrong about this clusterfuck though. And maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:42 PM (Abuxg)

280 Posted by: flowerbelle1 at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (AkAvN)

An excellent idea.

Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:42 PM (hZ+us)

281 Look on the bright side, maybe the "singularity" will make all this moot.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:40 PM (Hnqc1)


Yes, if a black hole eats us, it will be moot.

(I hate that term for the kooky futurist "I saw the Matrix, too" vision.)

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:43 PM (wB8Tg)

282 Coming soon:

"I'm sorry Shibumi, your credit card records indicate that you spend much too much on sugary foods. That puts in you in danger of obesity. We're going to have to raise your health insurance rates."

Also applicable for alcohol/ cigarettes/ junk food/ carbohydrates

/which is why Shibumi pays cash, muthaeffers.
Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:36 PM (aT+Bx)


The NHS in the UK is already denying surgery and other services to people who smoke or are overweight.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 22, 2017 02:43 PM (vBeA5)

283 I just want the premiums to go down.

Any word on that?

Posted by: Max Power at June 22, 2017 02:43 PM (q177U)

284 256 Question on pre-existing conditions: If I have a pre-existing condition and currently have insurance, does that mean I am locked in to that company? If I shop around and try to find a cheaper plan does the new company say "sorry, can't cover the pre-existing condition".

I truly do not know and would like an answer.




Posted by: LGoPs at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (EWZTH)


Yep. That's the way it was for my mom. Had the same insurance company from 1991 until her death in 2014.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:43 PM (t06LC)

285 As a small business owner with an LLC, If they just allowed me to write off every penny of out of pocket health care expenses (just like corporations can do) that would solve about 90% of my issues with ObamaCare.

I'm no wonk, but why not start there?

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (hMxr+)
=======

Write off? Ha! Fuck you.

Posted by: The Grabbing Hands of the IRS at June 22, 2017 02:43 PM (vg8iE)

286 It just occurred to me. If Shia LaBeouf said "he will not divide us", is he not already admitting there is a division between "he" (Trump) and Shia's group? And if many people supported Trump, then they are also divided from Shia's group. So why is a "division" so unthinkable? It may not be desirable, but it certainly seems to be indicated by the facts. And Shia's pronouncement that it cannot be the case seems to be self refuting: it reveals that it is already the case.

Posted by: Shia LaBeouf studies major at June 22, 2017 02:44 PM (xAvrH)

287 Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (BlEnL)

*waves*

I sended you a messenger message.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:44 PM (wB8Tg)

288 256 Question on pre-existing conditions: If I have a
pre-existing condition and currently have insurance, does that mean I
am locked in to that company? If I shop around and try to find a cheaper
plan does the new company say "sorry, can't cover the pre-existing
condition".



I truly do not know and would like an answer.





Posted by: LGoPs at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (EWZTH)



That's the way it was for me regard to preexisting surgery to my knee.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:41 PM (9GhFt)


Well that puts a whole new angle on the issue. You CAN'T shop around for a better deal because you have a pre-existing condition, even though you've been insured all your life.That sounds kind of fucked up.

Posted by: LGoPs at June 22, 2017 02:44 PM (EWZTH)

289 284 256 Question on pre-existing conditions: If I have a pre-existing condition and currently have insurance, does that mean I am locked in to that company? If I shop around and try to find a cheaper plan does the new company say "sorry, can't cover the pre-existing condition".

I truly do not know and would like an answer.




Posted by: LGoPs at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (EWZTH)


Yep. That's the way it was for my mom. Had the same insurance company from 1991 until her death in 2014.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:43 PM (t06LC)


I should mention, a month before her death, she was notified that she was getting dropped due to---- Obamacare.

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:44 PM (t06LC)

290 What is a 'Shia LaBeouf' anyway?

Posted by: JEM at June 22, 2017 02:44 PM (TppKb)

291 A message? On FB? Oh dear what was my pwd again?

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:45 PM (BlEnL)

292 283 I just want the premiums to go down.

Any word on that?

Posted by: Max Power at June 22, 2017 02:43 PM (q177U)

If by premiums you mean capable medical services, then yes.

Posted by: Big Insurance at June 22, 2017 02:45 PM (l4aLi)

293 I'm a physician an if this takes some power from the national level and moves it to the states, then that's a big win. If small businesses in the range of 50-200 people are done being choked by the regulations/taxes, another big win.

A free market is always the best situation with holes plugged about by charities and the generosity of others.

But a Laissez-faire market was inherently impossible even before Obamacare. Anyone that walked in with a heart attack was going to get treated in the hospital. Even those that needed ongoing outpatient treatment (ie cancer/dialysis) always got set up for treatment (despite all the despicable lies TFG told).

Anything that disperses power from the national level is what I want most.

Posted by: JT in KC at June 22, 2017 02:45 PM (O4CF7)

294 What's to stop an insurance company from giving out coupons for competitor plans to its most costly customers? You know, as a sneaky way to offload customers they don't want to other insurance companies?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 22, 2017 02:45 PM (Hnqc1)

295 George Clooney could donate the hundreds of millions of dollars he made off the sale of his tequila distillery to pay for the health care of alcoholics.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2017 02:45 PM (4AVeu)

296 Yeah also I learned the hard way, don't search 'jocks' or 'athletic supporter' on amazon. For fucks sake just review the damn product. Don't selfie your junk 10 times from every fucking angle. wtf?

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at June 22, 2017 02:36 PM (O5bec)





Carlos Danger: What in the hell am I going to with all of these pictures now?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:46 PM (493sH)

297 Bob Dole paraded the GOP plan back in the day of Hillary care.
The illiterati have only your best interest in mind...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 22, 2017 02:46 PM (MINbv)

298 290 What is a 'Shia LaBeouf' anyway?
__________________________________

An Islamic steak.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2017 02:46 PM (4AVeu)

299 271: http://boards.4chan.org/pol/

Holy cow. Morons x 10,000.

Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:47 PM (hZ+us)

300 My understanding of "pre-existing" conditions is this:

If you had insurance and you got a condition it is covered. If you never lapse you insurance you are covered. By lapse, I mean are always covered but switching is allowed. You are not covered if you didn't have insurance then got a condition and you said "WHOLLY FUCK" I need someone else to pay for this. Then you didnot get coverage for that condition.

It may have changed after Obarkycare. BTW I was one of the 10 million kicked off their private insurance plan. I had that plan for over 14 years. I liked it. The Obarkycare plan was twice as much and twice the deductible. But I did get maternity care and coverage for children I did not have. So WIN!!!

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:47 PM (npdX6)

301 I've met seasonal workers like this. Loggers and roofers who work like dogs part of the year, but sit on welfare in the off season. I get that some towns, like logging towns, just don't offer work off season, but there has to be a better way.
-----

And by towns, you mean major metropolitian areas right? And by loggers, you mean people who work backstage at summer concert venues, and just don't want to work the rest of the year, even though there are jobs available?


Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:47 PM (aT+Bx)

302
Problem with #1 is it's entrenched by the tax subsidies created as a result of FDR's meddling in salaries.

So...how do we do that short of taxing insurance as income?

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (dzmBR)

Get rid of the subsidy and give everyone at certain income levels a tax credit?

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:48 PM (t06LC)

303 And Shia's pronouncement that it cannot be the case seems to be self refuting: it reveals that it is already the case.

Posted by: Shia LaBeouf studies major at June 22, 2017 02:44 PM (xAvrH)


You spent more time thinking about this than LaDoof ever did.

One thing to understand about the left, especially the far left, is that a lot of their thinking is based on unquestioned assumptions - some of which they *can't* question and will try to argue around even existing.

One of them is this "collective ideal," that there's some natural state of unity and together-think that we're artificially separated from. I don't know that I could trace its origins precisely, but there's an *awful* lot of "everyone needs to get with my program OR ELSE" thinking going on.

For some it doesn't even seem to occur to them whether an idea is good or bad, as long as everyone agrees.

There's probably some kind of chimpanzee behavior metaphor for this, but my head already hurts.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:48 PM (wB8Tg)

304 The best strategy politically and fiscally is to let Obamacare fail.

Posted by: flowerbelle1 at June 22, 2017 02:28 PM (AkAvN)


This could work if done strategically.

There is still a filibuster for legislation, right?

Propose something all warm and fuzzy (even though ti won't work) that the Dems will oppose. Thus, you can not only blame any problems on Obamacare, but you can blame the Democrats for not letting the GOP help those poor unfortunate people, like cute kids with cancer or something.

The Democrats rabid intransigence is the GOP's greatest asset. The Senate GOP used that intransigence to get Gorsuch in by nuking the filibuster by framing their move and being forced by the intransigent Dems. Simply use that intransigence and the filibuster to lay all the blame on the Dems!

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 22, 2017 02:48 PM (vBeA5)

305 Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:47 PM (hZ+us)

See if they want to be in on the recipe book. I'm sure Bluebell wouldn't mind doing a six volume set. ;^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2017 02:48 PM (qES5k)

306 269 I just can't get that worked up about the Obamacare replacement. The markets need some stability, and Obama fucked us, so this has to be fixed with small steps. Just my opinion, formed without having studied it at all (so I'm just like a legislator!)

Posted by: LASue, so deplorable I should be indicted! at June 22, 2017 02:40 PM (hZ+us)




THIS. Before we all scream that the sky is falling, let's see what this bill actually does.

Even before Obamunist "Care", we had a hell of a lot of bad government involvement and perverse regulation in healthcare and health insurance.

As others pointed out, Obamunist "Care" was intended to make repeal difficult.

And YES, the GOP will be expected to replace it with something better. We are results-oriented, not inentions-oriented, right?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 22, 2017 02:49 PM (ujg0T)

307 Political Hat your exposition (as always) is good and thoughtful, but ..... I think it rests on at least one key myth: that there is any great political "risk" in rapid repeal.

I see no reason - none - to believe that's the case. Sure, it "sounds" reasonable. But there is no similarity between ending O-care - which "benefits" a tiny handful - and established, enmeshed disasters like Medicare or Social Security-as-a-pension-substitute.

The electorate reacted with historic results in 3 of 4 elections since O-care was passed - against the authors of the disaster. I don't believe survey data (serious survey data) show O-care gaining any real traction or support above it's below-40% level it always had.

Anyway, there's a fairly obvious and easy (really - I don't think the "insurance" leeches really have anywhere else to go, even in their degraded, rent-seeking condition) approach that obviously has never been given any thought by the GOP or the WH.

Repeal, outright, everything you can via reconciliation, while placing full repeal and *reform* (not "replace") proposals on the table for rapid action in separate, free-standing legislation, and publicizing HHS's comprehensive and aggressive deconstruction of the mess via the huge authority vested in the secretary by O-care itself.

This 1) lances the imaginary political boil, and gives the electorate that has never liked O-care concrete reason to take the GOP seriously 2) provides confidence that they're serious about actually being responsible and have some actual reforms planned 3) puts all the right people on the spot, politically, namely vulnerable Senate Dems up in '18, and even the most useless GOP incumbents up in '18.


Posted by: rhomboid at June 22, 2017 02:50 PM (QDnY+)

308 Just be aware, LAsue, that there's a lot of Joo hate on 4chan. A lot of racism, period.

But they're right about a lot, too.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:50 PM (Abuxg)

309 As a small business owner with an LLC, If they just allowed me to write off every penny of out of pocket health care expenses (just like corporations can do) that would solve about 90% of my issues with ObamaCare.

I'm no wonk, but why not start there?



Let doctors write off their charity work.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 02:50 PM (QQ+il)

310 But a Laissez-faire market was inherently impossible even before Obamacare. Anyone that walked in with a heart attack was going to get treated in the hospital. Even those that needed ongoing outpatient treatment (ie cancer/dialysis) always got set up for treatment (despite all the despicable lies TFG told).

========

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I've worked in healthcare for 20 years and it always frosted my ass when those who friggin' knew better wouldn't say a damn word.

People don't go without care. It's a fucking lie and if they are, it's their own damn fault. There are charities on top of charities, funds, etc. that will cover care for those who can't or won't pay for it. My organization offers its services regardless of your ability to pay. So does St. Judes, so does Shriners, etc.

Of course, I'm old enough to remember the days when if someone had an illness, their family and friends would hold spaghetti dinners to raise money or put cans out at local businesses so people could dump their spare change in it, etc. and didn't expect strangers to be forced at the end of a gun to pay for it.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:50 PM (vg8iE)

311 I left a logger on a cop car once.

Posted by: OWS Leftover At The Local Methadone Clinic at June 22, 2017 02:50 PM (l4aLi)

312 The buzz-phrase "southern poverty" dates from the depression-era Roosevelt administration, rural land use becoming mixed up with the TVA and other reforms. Southern poverty itself is tied to extremely long-lasting effects of the civil war. I can't link anything easily but you can google "Roosevelt" "Southern Poverty"

Posted by: SarahW at June 22, 2017 02:51 PM (Sp1NT)

313 "We are living Foucault"
--------------

So I went to
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/foucault/

and skimmed down through the text trying to get a sense of what it all meant, trying to find English words that made sense, and I got to this:
Foucault's first major work, History of Madness in the Classical Age (1961) originated in his academic study of psychology (a licence de psychologie in 1949 and a diplome de psycho-pathologie in 1952), his work in a Parisian mental hospital, and his own personal psychological problems.

So, Mr. Tsrlbke PhD(c), I'm guessing that what you mean is "the world has gone insane," and the nut house is being run by the nuts who live there.

I can agree with that.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at June 22, 2017 02:51 PM (m9X4Y)

314 302
Problem with #1 is it's entrenched by the tax subsidies created as a result of FDR's meddling in salaries.

So...how do we do that short of taxing insurance as income?

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 22, 2017 02:37 PM (dzmBR)

Get rid of the subsidy and give everyone at certain income levels a tax credit?
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:48 PM (t06LC)

Simpler.... make anything you spend on Health Insurance, or Health Care... a Tax deduction.

Take the tax write off from the business, and make it a personal exemption.

Posted by: Don Q. at June 22, 2017 02:51 PM (NgKpN)

315
What a surprise a bunch of lefties are holding a die in at Turtle's office right now. They want single payer? Well then they ought to sit there for weeks and get used to dying in hallways

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:51 PM (493sH)

316 Soon we'l have Trumpcare and we own it and it better be magnificent because the 'the Republicans destroyed healthcare switch' will be thrown at MSM.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at June 22, 2017 02:51 PM (O5bec)

317 A message? On FB? Oh dear what was my pwd again?

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:45 PM (BlEnL)


HAHA! I just didn't want to go too far off topic, but I wroted a novel. Doing a grammar pass (love me my run-ons), about to start on my editing notes from writer's group.

But holy crap I finally moved from the very large "I want to write a novel" group to the much smaller "I wrote a novel" group.

Now I need to sell it (gulp).

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:51 PM (wB8Tg)

318 You guys fucked up. You trusted us.

Posted by: GOPe at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (npdX6)

No, I'll never trust you but I know I can trust the President in this regard: he was opposed to Obamacare not because it is a step toward single payer but because it is a grossly inefficient bureaucratic morass.

During the primary campaign (and beyond), the President has been very up-front about his views regarding government-subsidized healthcare--especially for poor Americans. He's for it.

Stop blaming the GOPe. On this issue, they're fairly closely aligned with the President.

Posted by: troyriser at June 22, 2017 02:52 PM (Fw5cQ)

319 @314

That could work

Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2017 02:52 PM (t06LC)

320 Now this is just me being a problem solving engineer but how can dicking around with insurance get the price a hospital (not for profit of course) charges for a Tylenol down from $15 per?

Looking into that might bring rates down. Just sayin.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:52 PM (npdX6)

321 315
What a surprise a bunch of lefties are holding a die in at Turtle's office right now. They want single payer? Well then they ought to sit there for weeks and get used to dying in hallways

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 22, 2017 02:51 PM (493sH)

i like that.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at June 22, 2017 02:52 PM (O5bec)

322 Now I need to sell it (gulp).
---

The writing is the easy part.

The hard part is the agent/selling part.

Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (aT+Bx)

323 THIS. Before we all scream that the sky is falling, let's see what this bill actually does.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 22, 2017 02:49 PM (ujg0T)


Why, that's just crazy talk!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (wB8Tg)

324 Look. We just don't give a crap about Northern Poverty.

Posted by: Southern Poverty Law Center at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (4AVeu)

325 Question on pre-existing conditions: If I have a pre-existing condition and currently have insurance, does that mean I am locked in to that company? If I shop around and try to find a cheaper plan does the new company say "sorry, can't cover the pre-existing condition".

I truly do not know and would like an answer.
---------------------
You can't bring up a pre-existing condition in an interview. If they give you the job, the other interviewees can sue, saying you got preferential treatment. If you don't get the job, you can sue because that's why they didn't hire you. Then if they hire you, you have to disclose to HR (after 90 days) and then they hate you. Which is why I've not tried to move from where I am. It's an ethical conundrum. My treatment is very expensive, not linked to lifestyle, no one know why anyone gets this, but if I were a newbie at a company? Too risky for me. And getting your own policy would cost a fortune.

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (6FY0P)

326 I definitely think anyone that thought we could simply do a clean repeal this far in was delusional.

It would be like canceling Social Security in one year or any other entitlement.

Obama fucked us and its going to take time to dig out, but if we can score reforms as we go, I can get behind that.

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (hMxr+)

327 @ 295...I was just about to suggest that, haha.

Here's the thing for hubby and I....this is better than Ocare. So I am for it. Simple as that.

Little steps, and there are many in this plan, lead to distance covered. It's not a leap, but frankly, a leap would scare many people, and the Dems would make a great deal of hay out of that.

Anything improves, except staying put. In Ocareland.

Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (QAGI0)

328 Just change the IRS reg making health insurance a personal vs business deduction. Its simple, let the market fix itself.

Posted by: Jean at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (9TU00)

329 *throws money at Merovign*

I wanna buyit naow!

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (BlEnL)

330 Simpler.... make anything you spend on Health Insurance, or Health Care... a Tax deduction.
=======

I believe I've heard that floated before and the usual cacophony of bullshit erupted from the Left - "Oh, yeah, that only benefits the rich!!!"

No, assmunch, it benefits the working man. I'm not fucking rich, not by a long shot, by I am a net taxpayer.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (vg8iE)

331
Let doctors write off their charity work.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2017 02:50 PM (QQ+il)


Ewwww.... I REALLY like that idea...

Posted by: Don Q. at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (NgKpN)

332 It's seems to be a moot point now but what continues to make me the angriest is that the sole stated purpose of healthcare reform was to get coverage for those 30 to 40 million involuntary uninsured ( I believe the involuntary number is a crock of shit). Instead they concentrated on screwing the remaining 300 million . Of course the sole purpose was to get a government single payer system implemented.

Posted by: Jack Sock at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (9GhFt)

333 Now this is just me being a problem solving engineer but how can dicking around with insurance get the price a hospital (not for profit of course) charges for a Tylenol down from $15 per?

Looking into that might bring rates down. Just sayin.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable


_____

Its because you're paying for the 15 parasites on MEdiCaid that got it free.

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (hMxr+)

334 The writing is the easy part.

Posted by: shibumi at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (aT+Bx)


The 97% of people who try and quit and 1.5% who spend their whole life on a project suggest that this is not true.

Writing something both good and marketable is a real challenge. A *few* people get lucky marketing crap, but I'm not really a romance writer.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:55 PM (wB8Tg)

335 Simpler.... make anything you spend on Health Insurance, or Health Care... a Tax deduction.
=======

I believe I've heard that floated before and the usual cacophony of bullshit erupted from the Left - "Oh, yeah, that only benefits the rich!!!"

No, assmunch, it benefits the working man. I'm not fucking rich, not by a long shot, by I am a net taxpayer.
Posted by: bicentennialguy

++++

It would be a HUGE win and should be a part of tax reform.

Trump would endear himself to small business owners in a big way.

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:55 PM (hMxr+)

336
Little steps, and there are many in this plan, lead to distance covered. It's not a leap, but frankly, a leap would scare many people, and the Dems would make a great deal of hay out of that.

Anything improves, except staying put. In Ocareland.
Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (QAGI0)

except the GOP will then try to tell us, with a straight face, that they kept their campaign promise...

There will be no second step.

Posted by: Don Q. at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (NgKpN)

337 My first brush with the wonderful Canadian healthcare system *spit* was when I had horrible stomach pains for three months.

It took that long to get an appointment.

I spent three minutes in the doctor's office explaining what I'd experienced. The Dr asked me if my poop was Bible black. I said no. He said he wasn't convinced it was an ulcer ... and sent me away.

That's it. No treatment, no tests, no plan, be gone.

When I got back to the US I saw another Dr. He ran a couple of tests and found out I had some kind of stomach bacteria. Gave me an antibacterial course and some probiotics to follow that to promote my gut bacteria afterward. I felt great in a week.

Oh, and that Canadian Dr visit wasn't free. It cost about the same as my US Dr visit.
==================
First year on the job defending doctors in malpractice cases.

Met with surgeon who was born and trained in Canada, moved to the US few year prior to my meeting him.

GUY WAS FRIGGIN PISSED. His father still in Canada, waited months to get worked up for stomach pain. Stomach Ca dx'd but they wouldn't do surgery for months. For a Cancer that is very curable until it gets too deep into the stomach lining. No way to know that until you do surgery. He was bringing is father to US to do surgery on his own dime.

Lots of Canadians in US hospitals having surgeries folks. Lots and Lots.

The other thing is, you can sue an insurance company for screwing you over. You can't sue the government.

The government is a horrifically powerful monster that only cares for your tax dollars and, periodically, your vote. As and individual neither your tax dollars or vote matters to the government.

Choose wisely who you wish to put in charge of your health care.

Posted by: simplemind at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (mctga)

338

Mostly, we try and oppose the tyranny of reverse snowbirds...

Posted by: Northern Poverty Law Center at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (fcU1Y)

339 All kind of shit going on today and Drudge's going with George Clooney making a killing on Tequila.

Who gives a shit?

Posted by: JoeF. at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (7uYFy)

340 Merovign, I'm in the same place! Luckily, a good friend started her own little self-publishing agency, loves my book and is going to publish it. She's going to handle all the crap I hate / don't know about, I can write and edit and stuff. There's a TON of self-publishing places that can help if you want to go that route, and every publishing company allows non-agented submissions. You might get some/a lot of rejections, but you may also end up with an agent. Also, writers' conferences usually have agents around, looking to scoop up new authors. You could try that, too.

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (6FY0P)

341 326

Obama Justice Roberts who was appointed by GW Bush fucked us and its going to take time to dig out, but if we can score reforms as we go, I can get behind that.

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:53 PM (hMxr+)


Updated for accuracy.

Posted by: Under Fire at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (l4aLi)

342 When the SPLC was founded at the dawn of the seventies, the phrase still held "New Deal" power LBJs great society reforms were largely a recapitulation of Rooseveltian noblesse oblige and it was an immediate signal of SERIOUS PROBLEMS NEEDING GOVERNMENT ATTENTION and reform.

Posted by: SarahW at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (Sp1NT)

343 If you don't get the job, you can sue because that's why they didn't hire you. .
Posted by: biblio


Wait. So, you and an unethical lawyer (but I repeat myself) could serially go to job interviews - and sue employers if they didn't hire you.

Posted by: Jean at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (9TU00)

344 Curmudgeon, the "results" that existed up to 2014 (when O-care took effect), that is the status quo ante, would be a dramatically positive development for millions and millions.

Who would like an elimination of a $12K surtax on health insurance that took effect that year? Raise your hands.

THAT is, quite literally, one of the "results" that could follow from O-care repeal, for millions. The individual market was essentially destroyed. Those affected outnumber the piddling number of O-care enrollees by a substantial margin.

Only in a system of representative govt. that no longer had much representation could a universally unpopular policy that devastated up to twice the number it "helped" be seen as a tricky thing to unravel.

(and further to my earlier comment about O-care lacking any popular political base - what has been the evidence, in states where O-care options have been shrinking dramatically or disappearing, that there is any political backlash resulting? None, that I have seen. And it's happening all over the country. A policy that was never popular and helped provide the greatest partisan realignment in our history and whose gradual disappearance is generating no perceptible backlash .... is NOT a minefield to be feared)

Posted by: rhomboid at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (QDnY+)

345 318 You guys fucked up. You trusted us.

Posted by: GOPe at June 22, 2017 02:11 PM (npdX6)

No, I'll never trust you but I know I can trust the President in this regard: he was opposed to Obamacare not because it is a step toward single payer but because it is a grossly inefficient bureaucratic morass.

During the primary campaign (and beyond), the President has been very up-front about his views regarding government-subsidized healthcare--especially for poor Americans. He's for it.

Stop blaming the GOPe. On this issue, they're fairly closely aligned with the President.
Posted by: troyriser at June 22, 2017 02:52 PM (Fw5cQ)




THIS too.

And mark my words, if something is passed that brings down insurance premiums and other costs, Trump will declare victory, even if the government role is maintained, or even expanded.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (ujg0T)

346 One thing I think would be an incredible change would be personal HSA's for everyone that could be deducted on our taxes.

Not tied to our employer, and effectively pre-tax money. But of course not, f-u.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (Abuxg)

347 'Its because you're paying for the 15 parasites on MEdiCaid that got it free.'

Oh yes.

I know a woman. Lord knows how much we've spent on her and her 40 yr old son, medically over the past few years via medicaid. Procedure after procedure. Any little thing, it's seen to.

And it's never good enough. Complains, complains, complains.

Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (QAGI0)

348 What the hell am I?

Chopped liver?

Posted by: Eastern Poverty Law Center at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (4AVeu)

349 Lots of Canadians in US hospitals having surgeries folks. Lots and Lots.

The other thing is, you can sue an insurance company for screwing you over. You can't sue the government.

The government is a horrifically powerful monster that only cares for your tax dollars and, periodically, your vote. As and individual neither your tax dollars or vote matters to the government.

Choose wisely who you wish to put in charge of your health care.
Posted by: simplemind

++++

What pisses me off? Canadians RAVE about how much they love their health care.

People on universal health care don't know any better unless they are loaded and have seen private practice health care.

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:58 PM (hMxr+)

350 339 All kind of shit going on today and Drudge's going with George Clooney making a killing on Tequila.

Who gives a shit?

Posted by: JoeF. at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (7uYFy)



The people that buy National Enquirer?

Posted by: Under Fire at June 22, 2017 02:58 PM (l4aLi)

351 An HSA that can roll over, and is still my and my descendent money.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 22, 2017 02:58 PM (Abuxg)

352

The Eastern Poverty Law Center is against beejers.

To the East we go not.

Posted by: Northern Poverty Law Center at June 22, 2017 02:59 PM (fcU1Y)

353 "Its because you're paying for the 15 parasites on MEdiCaid that got it free.

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (hMxr+)"
---------
Yeah I KNOW. I live in SoCal where the illegals bankrupted 20+ hospitals. Now we need to get that out into the public discourse.

Just like last night when my schadenboner upened my desk as Trump said no welfare for immigrants for five years.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 22, 2017 02:59 PM (npdX6)

354 250 This Roy character, based on this and a few other exposures to his thinking, is sort of the prototypical effectively-stupid Beltway type: his assumptions and starting points are so far out of touch with reality and common sense that his "analysis" is irrelevant.

The GOP's uselessness on this is far darker and less amusing than much of the snark here might suggest.
Posted by: rhomboid at June 22, 2017 02:35 PM (QDnY+)



It's simple. The GOP has its own set of cronies to enrich. That's why "repeal" must always be accompanied by "and replace".

Posted by: rickl at June 22, 2017 02:59 PM (xjiRE)

355 Political Hat your exposition (as always) is good and thoughtful, but ..... I think it rests on at least one key myth: that there is any great political "risk" in rapid repeal.

...snip...

This 1) lances the imaginary political boil, and gives the electorate that has never liked O-care concrete reason to take the GOP seriously 2) provides confidence that they're serious about actually being responsible and have some actual reforms planned 3) puts all the right people on the spot, politically, namely vulnerable Senate Dems up in '18, and even the most useless GOP incumbents up in '18.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 22, 2017 02:50 PM (QDnY+)


Yes, Obamacare, per se is unpopular. But that doesn't mean that people will accept any and all alternatives.

It will take the private sector time to adjust, and a sudden loss of Obamacare will result in at least some people losing their plan or being priced out of a plan -- even if that had nothing to do with Obamacare disappearing. Those sob stories will be used with devastating effect -- heck, even the possibility is being used effectively right now to turn people against any change done by the GOP.

Most people don't care about the GOP making a strong manly move of total resolve even if it means people lose their coverage or are financially ruined.; lots of people are afraid of losing their coverage or being financially ruined over healthcare costs. One way or another we have to address these concerns.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 22, 2017 02:59 PM (vBeA5)

356 I wanna buyit naow!

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 02:54 PM (BlEnL)


This is my goal!

Once I finish the next edit pass (it's not really a first draft as I've been working on it for a while), it should be ready for a few new readers (including you).

I'm definitely looking for traditional publishers as my health makes self/indie stuff a lot less likely to work. I kind of have a connection to an agent but we'll see how that works out.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 02:59 PM (wB8Tg)

357 350 339 All kind of shit going on today and Drudge's going with George Clooney making a killing on Tequila.

Who gives a shit?

Posted by: JoeF. at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (7uYFy)
_______________________________

Me.

Posted by: The Worm at the Bottom of the Bottle at June 22, 2017 02:59 PM (4AVeu)

358 @336 Perhaps not. But this is still better than the mayhem of Ocare. At least for my family it is. I am not a purist, I guess. Too jaded.

Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 03:00 PM (QAGI0)

359 Shibumi, becoming a JK Rowlings is like winning the lottery and capturing lightning in a bottle. Very rare.

Write for fun and hope others like what you write. Don't bet on becoming the next JK Rowlings. Though that doesn't stop one local writers group who has had financial planners show up to discuss what to do when the writers become rich.

Uhm hello? My royalty check for last year was under $100. So yeah reality says those in that group who tend to write walls of dialog romance novels hitting the financial jackpot are very very slim.

Speaking of writing, still tackling three Tanya stories at once.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 03:00 PM (V3c+3)

360 The thing is they've already wrecked the health care system. Many of us were fully covered for decades at 5-6- 7 bucks an hour wage , also overtime wage.
Not they've shot us in the back and those no longer in Those jobs after they wasted the Housing/ building / financial waste in 2008, This was a way for them to claw 6 percent of our economy to themselves while leaving literally millions fkd.

Posted by: willow at June 22, 2017 03:00 PM (iS1Cb)

361 NOOD. Watergate 2017

Posted by: Lord Chancellor johnd01, Cheif Covfefe at June 22, 2017 03:00 PM (ukNFU)

362 If you don't get the job, you can sue because that's why they didn't hire you. .
Posted by: biblio

Wait. So, you and an unethical lawyer (but I repeat myself) could serially go to job interviews - and sue employers if they didn't hire you.
-------------------
Shit. I never thought of that. . . . I'm too much of a rule-follower to do that. Besides, I HATE people who gin up a lawsuit because "they" "deserve it." What happens when they really do? It's drowned out in BS cases like that.

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 03:00 PM (6FY0P)

363 "Most people don't care about the GOP making a strong manly move of total resolve even if it means people lose their coverage or are financially ruined.; lots of people are afraid of losing their coverage or being financially ruined over healthcare costs. One way or another we have to address these concerns."

Right on! Your whole analysis is excellent, Hat.

Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 03:01 PM (QAGI0)

364 Nood

Posted by: steevy at June 22, 2017 03:02 PM (rmVvL)

365 And Merovign, I'd love to read your book, too. Heck, when it's out you know it'll be featured on the Sunday Book Thread.

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 03:03 PM (6FY0P)

366 From the initial post:

"It also eliminates Obamacare's health insurance mandate."

That right there is the whole point.

The "mandate" was the #1 problem with Obamacare. The government has no right to compel citizens to purchase a product. Blatantly unconstitutional (fuck you, Justice Roberts).

Once the mandate is eliminated, I am happy. For two reasons:

1. The compulsion to purchase a product, and to participate in this pyramid scheme, is removed, therefore it's no longer unconstitutional.

2. Without the mandate, the entire Obamacare-esque system will necessarily collapse very quickly on its own, without the need to legislate it out of existence.

So, if this bill passes -- and I assume it will -- sometime during Trump's 8-year presidency we will have to either

a. Have the government get out of the healthcare business entirely; or
b. Go full socialized medicine.

In others, it becomes an all-or-nothing high-stakes gamble.

And I don't think the US has the appetite at this point in history for full socialized medicine. And Trump has the balls to oppose it. Therefore, in the long run, this will result in a total "win" for our side (fiscal sanity/constitutionality). The other ways leads to national bankruptcy and a socialist economic system.

Posted by: zombie at June 22, 2017 03:03 PM (DQ4Fv)

367 Wait. So, you and an unethical lawyer (but I repeat myself) could serially go to job interviews - and sue employers if they didn't hire you.

Posted by: Jean at June 22, 2017 02:57 PM (9TU00)


The latest thing I've heard of is 'life coaches' who go to employment interviews with applicants. I shit you not.

Special snowflakes have to have moral support (and a potential court witness) with them. Employer is now not on equal footing with employee, but has a potential court witness against him at the bargaining table.

Posted by: Slippery Slope Salesman at June 22, 2017 03:03 PM (PduNE)

368 Clooney making that much off Tequila does piss me off. I'm sure his left-wing politics will compel his to resdistribute that money.

Who the hell buys Tequila because some actor puts his face on it?

Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 03:03 PM (hMxr+)

369 Thank goodness Mr. Roy is acknowledged as an expert. We need more of those to improve Obamacare even more than it already is. Let's not try to cheap out, either. GOP Inc. has a lot of stake-holders who need to be taken care of, starting with the Senators themselves. And their staffs, of course.

Posted by: Born Free at June 22, 2017 03:04 PM (PTsUx)

370 Um, no, you are wrong. Mandate gone. Taxes repealed. Where in the heck do you see the ACA remaining at all? In the fact that people will still get help buying insurance plans? That is NOT the ACA at all.

Step 2 (and Trump indicated there would be steps 2 and 3 after this) will be HHS regs. Dr. Price at HHS gets to do whatever he likes with what kinds of policies can be sold on the exchanges. He could strip them down to the simplest of plans, which would make them incredibly cheap. Would you really be mad if poor people got basic health insurance policies rather than stick them on Medicaid? I would.

If HHS can eventually turn these plans into catastrophic only plans, I would love it. I think everyone SHOULD have a catastrophic coverage plan. There is so much that HHS can do once this bill is passed.

I am 100% pleased with it. It has what Trump needs: MANDATE GONE.

Posted by: K-E at June 22, 2017 03:04 PM (uOEHQ)

371 In others, = In other words,

Posted by: zombie at June 22, 2017 03:04 PM (DQ4Fv)

372
Posted by: The Worm at the Bottom of the Bottle at June 22, 2017 02:59 PM (4AVeu)


That's mezcal you're soaking in not tequila

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at June 22, 2017 03:04 PM (lKyWE)

373 It's simple. The GOP has its own set of cronies to enrich. That's why "repeal" must always be accompanied by "and replace".
=============
Neatly stated.
*golf clap*

Posted by: simplemind at June 22, 2017 03:05 PM (kd2At)

374 Trump always said he wanted a big beautiful single payer system.
-------

False. He said he was for it in a debate when he thought the words "single payer" meant something to do with *individuals* buying insurance.

Like every other lib idea, it's name sounds really cool. Until you find out the "single payer" is the fucking government.

Posted by: Mega at June 22, 2017 03:05 PM (AYoWs)

375 Yeah I KNOW. I live in SoCal where the illegals bankrupted 20+ hospitals. Now we need to get that out into the public discourse.



20+?
Bing "border hospitals closed".

Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2017 03:06 PM (j+h+K)

376 Jeebus. There were not even a sizable fraction of "30 to 40 million" financially involuntarily uninsured prior to O-care. Today, with many "refugees" from the individual market (people who could manipulate their incomes to qualify for the shitty O-care plans in their states), the program has less than 10 million.

And this group (probably closer to 5-6 million) of people, who "might get scared" at hearing about O-care repeal, are the political fulcrum of American politics? Vs. the group, probably 3 times this size, who have been absolutely devastated by the destruction of the individual market? What?

Farm susbsidies are a disaster that remain because of inertia, cowardice, greed, and crucially the fact that they don't *visibly* and dramatically hurt millions of people, directly. O-care is a disaster that does the latter. There is no excuse, tactical or strategic, for not taking dramatic action.


Posted by: rhomboid at June 22, 2017 03:06 PM (QDnY+)

377 Who the hell buys Tequila because some actor puts his face on it?
=================
The kind of people who drink cactus squeezin's.

Posted by: simplemind at June 22, 2017 03:07 PM (TfPyr)

378 Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 02:56 PM (6FY0P)

Thanks! I don't know how it will turn out but I can't travel much and can't really keep schedules. I end up in the hospital occasionally.

I'd also like to work with a publisher that thinks long-term. I have summaries for the next 8 books and I've started on two of them.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 03:07 PM (wB8Tg)

379 All kind of shit going on today and Drudge's going with George Clooney making a killing on Tequila.

I think Drudge is trolling the Turtle

Posted by: Jean at June 22, 2017 03:07 PM (9TU00)

380 I'm tired of the "conservative case for [insert liberal dream of expansion of federal power and bureaucracy here]." Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 22, 2017 01:54 PM (KUaJL)

This is from way upthread, but THIIIIIIIII- *takes deep breath* -IIIiiiiiIISSSSS!!!!!!Forever and ever, eleventy. Amen.Where is our small government party?

Posted by: Prudie, also sick of it at June 22, 2017 03:08 PM (al6UK)

381 >>That's it. No questions about diet, drug use, alcohol use, lifestyle
risks such as skiing or jumping out of airplane for fun, etc.


That's one of the things that annoys me about lifestyle criticism: "cool" activities like homosexual sex and rock climbing are never mentioned as dangerous, just stuff like weight and smoking. I've even read that it's a thing - forget the term - for some gays to try to get AIDS. But no, we can only b#tch about how much that fatty two doors down must be costing "us," not that Obamacare has (intentionally) made our neighbor's health our concern.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2017 03:09 PM (NOIQH)

382 And Merovign, I'd love to read your book, too. Heck, when it's out you know it'll be featured on the Sunday Book Thread.

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 03:03 PM (6FY0P)


Yeah, too bad it's Early Morning Eastern Time.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 03:09 PM (wB8Tg)

383 Government FUBAR. It's what they do.

Posted by: wth at June 22, 2017 03:09 PM (HgMAr)

384 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 03:07 PM (wB8Tg)

Agents LOVE writers who are already onto the next one. They don't want one-hit wonders, they want a franchise. . .

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 03:10 PM (6FY0P)

385 TurtleCare.

Apologies if this was already coined. I came in late.

Posted by: wth at June 22, 2017 03:12 PM (HgMAr)

386 Drama is nice and all, but let's be realistic. Art of the Deal and all, you know.

You don't use a cudgel iffen you can avoid it, esp politically.

You soothe the people to your side. And we are a people that need to be soothed.

It's too bad we can't face facts, but such is the population we now have in this country.

Had we more starch in our spine, Obamacare would never have happened in the first place. Shrug. It is what it is.

Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 03:14 PM (QAGI0)

387 343 If you don't get the job, you can sue because that's why they didn't hire you. .
Posted by: biblio

Wait. So, you and an unethical lawyer (but I repeat myself) could serially go to job interviews - and sue employers if they didn't hire you.
Posted by: Jean


I am often amazed at people's naivete. Aren't you familiar with "discrimination nuisance lawsuit" vampires? Heck, in the Bay Area, this is one of the most common professions.

Here's how it works:

You, the horrible person, need to be grotesque or unqualified, hopefully in a variety of ways. It's best to be unskilled, rude, obese, demanding, unmotivated, self-entitled, and scary.

Then you apply for a job for which you are totally unqualified.

Two possible outcomes:

A. They don't hire you. In which case you immediately sue, claiming "discrimination" based on some other irrelevant factor -- i.e. claim they they didn't hire you because they were racist against whatever ethnicity you are, or homophobic, or prejudiced in some other way. Even though the lawsuit is patently scurrilous, you sue for millions, and the company will usually throw a $50,000 settlement offer your way just to make you shut up. And you take the offer, and share 1/3 with your unethical lawyer.

B. They DO hire you. Uh oh. You're totally unqualified. Now what? Easy peasy: Within one week, claim you are "injured" on the job (carpal-tunnel syndrome or back pain are go-to ailments), and stop working and go on disability. The company will then throw a $30,000 "golden parachute" at you to go away.

Either way, you get a big payout.

There is an entire demographic of people who do this month-in, month-out as a profession -- the profession of suing companies for discrimination, and/or claiming fake job-related disabilities.

Posted by: zombie at June 22, 2017 03:15 PM (DQ4Fv)

388 Agents love series books because if the first is successful it means a steady revenue stream. Like movie franchises, a safe bet.

Until the writer starts cranking out swill, books that can't stand on their own without knowing everything in all the previous books. Or even worse they start padding and the editors allow them to pad the books in the series to get a good page count.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 03:18 PM (V3c+3)

389 Agents LOVE writers who are already onto the next one. They don't want one-hit wonders, they want a franchise. . .

Posted by: biblio at June 22, 2017 03:10 PM (6FY0P)


I sure hope so!

P.S. I was hired to a really nice job with a known serious pre-existing condition - but it *may* also have played into why I don't work there anymore.

Point is they were willing to hire me and I worked there quite a while.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 03:21 PM (wB8Tg)

390 388 Agents love series books because if the first is successful it means a steady revenue stream. Like movie franchises, a safe bet.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 03:18 PM (V3c+3)


I have more of a "creative universe" than a series. Already thinking about things being accessible so people don't have to read the whole catalog, but if they do they get little "bonus" a-ha moments.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 22, 2017 03:23 PM (wB8Tg)

391 Had we more starch in our spine, Obamacare would never have happened in the first place. Shrug. It is what it is.

Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 03:14 PM (QAGI0)

If it's a little less onerous, at least it's a step in the right direction we wouldn't have had if The Hag had won.

With as much shit as they've thrown at Trump, I'm at least hoping to get something, even if it's a sub-optimal something. We can start on the next bill once this one's through.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at June 22, 2017 03:34 PM (X52ZZ)

392 I don't care what passes, either the Senate plan or the House plan, as long as I get the same coverage as the Senators /Representatives! If healthcare is actually a right, shouldn't we all have the same rights? I guess Orwell was correct, some are more equal than others!

Posted by: wayne at June 22, 2017 03:44 PM (+JFwL)

393 349 What pisses me off? Canadians RAVE about how much they love their health care.

People on universal health care don't know any better unless they are loaded and have seen private practice health care.
Posted by: publix at June 22, 2017 02:58 PM

They're fed lies about how Americans get decent care but then lose their homes paying for it. In fact, I was watching Lynette Jennings (a home fixer-upper in the 2000s, and an election ad came on. The provincial candidate told a little story about her relative in hospital and how worried she was; then it dawned on her that if she was in the US, she would be more worried about the hospital bill. Because we're monsters who worry more about people than loved ones.

Then there's the U.K. DId anyone else see the official following the building fire who gave the death toll? He said that despite the excellent NHS, someone else died at hospital. It sounded weird because officials here mention doctors and nurses, not the name of the hospital.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at June 22, 2017 03:47 PM (G8B7r)

394 "More about people" = "more about money"

Posted by: NaughtyPine at June 22, 2017 03:52 PM (G8B7r)

395 If "health care" is removed from the free market, the providers, suppliers, regulators, researchers, investors, accountants, HR (of course!), must be similarly removed from said free market.
Sooo... Draft them all into the All American Yankee Doodle Free Health Service! If my tax money pays for your health care, doctors don't get to make more than a "living wage" doin' your doctorin'.

That'll save a chunk o' change.

Let "unintended consequences" be the whole of the law. It pretty much is anyway.

Posted by: klaftern at June 22, 2017 03:54 PM (RuIsu)

396 Obamacare was working just fine until the GOP broke it. [Repeat until you believe it.]

Posted by: Corrupt Media at June 22, 2017 03:56 PM (qYCgM)

397 new get a gun thread

Posted by: seamrog at June 22, 2017 04:01 PM (zknkf)

398 Wait. Is this bill still similar to the three part deal where Sec Price will do something or other to make it better?

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen, is tired of dis at June 22, 2017 04:15 PM (J5mzk)

399 On the bright side, every morning wake up and repeat after me:

"The Hag is not President."

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen, is tired of dis at June 22, 2017 04:23 PM (J5mzk)

400 @151,

I had some supplements jam up. I could breathe but couldn't get any liquids down. Went to the ER and spent a couple of hours waiting to see if muscle relaxers would help. They didn't. They used a endoscope to clear things out. And that left me with slightly over 5k to cover as my deductible. I have a 2k bill for a MRSA infection when I was between coverage. I seem to be paying out of pocket, even though I have insurance.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at June 22, 2017 04:24 PM (Lqy/e)

401 @ 391 That's certainly the way I see it. And yes...can you imagine what would be happening if Hils was Prez. Oof..every day I thank God it is not so.

Posted by: lizabth at June 22, 2017 04:40 PM (QAGI0)

402 Okay, I'm confused... why did this topic jump to the top of the page.
----
Merovign, kinda Known Universe meets Terran-Future History?

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 22, 2017 04:42 PM (V3c+3)

403 @400...yep, same here.

So far some of the policy is working: food stamps down in many states after requirement for work, etc.

Will wait and see. If the Dims keep squeaking it is maybe on the right track. I guess the GOP Senators can have the option to pare it down more (while probably adding on pork for themselves, as that is how they all roll in the Senate).

If it is a good bill by the time it reaches President Trump, he will sign it...based on the 3 step plan where Sec Price can pare it even more in Step 2. Or so I read months ago.

I continue to trust President Trump and will wait and see the results. I am all for repealing and replacing Obamacare. There will always be critics. Unsure if this will help my own family or not.

I think, but cannot be certain, that there will be squealing masses of people soonish if PP not funded in this bill. Unsure, too, what Cruz, Paul, Lee, etc are wanting to add. It is all one of those Senate mysteries that end up being pork, I betcha.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen, is tired of dis at June 22, 2017 04:46 PM (J5mzk)

404 I just flashed on a mental image of Mitch McConnell pushing frantically on Obamacare's chest, charging up the defibrillator paddles to ELEVEN, yelling "CLEAR", applying the shock and then sobbing, "Live, dammit, LLLLLIIIIIVE!!!"

Posted by: Muldoon at June 22, 2017 04:46 PM (mvenn)

405 "Dammit, Barack, I'm a senate majority leader, not a miracle worker!!"

Posted by: Muldoon at June 22, 2017 04:46 PM (mvenn)

406 The highlights:

- Ends the Affordable Care Act's mandates and most of its taxes.
- Phases out its Medicaid expansion over three years, ending in 2024.
- Limits Medicaid spending with per capita caps, or block grants for states that choose them. The spending growth rate would become stricter in 2025.
- States could apply for waivers from many of the insurance regulations - though not protections for people with pre-existing conditions and coverage for young adults.
- The ACA's tax credits would be kept in place, unlike the House bill - but their value would be reduced.
- Funds the ACA's cost-sharing subsidies through 2019, but then repeals them.

++++

https://www.axios.com/what-we-
know-about-the-gop-senate-health- bill-2445712499.html

Looks like an improvement to me, especially the removal of the mandates.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at June 22, 2017 04:49 PM (WzbqD)

407 Nood.

Posted by: Hate Has No Home Here and I Hate Guns, Racism, Homelessness, and Especially Moron Robbie at June 22, 2017 04:50 PM (BPbsZ)

408 Why can't congress perform under deadline pressures like the private sector?
This one should be easy: As a standalone measure, repeal Obamacare in its entirety, but with an effective date of November 6, 2018. That satisfies the base and they can hide behind that for a while and blame Trump.

Then if they want to do something on top of that, like give away stuff to alarmed constituents, pass separate bills. But they have to git 'er done by election time or they're fucked. Nobody spends money faster than congress, so that should take them maybe a month.




Posted by: The real Henderson James at June 22, 2017 05:04 PM (7A6l6)

409 Can anyone detail a government 'fix' of a major government screw-up that was an improvement?

And...

From the Whitehouse today: "The American people know a bad deal when they see one. The most recent data shows that around 6.5 million Americans paid $3 billion in penalties to the IRS rather than buy unaffordable Obamacare plans."

Posted by: Meremortal at June 22, 2017 05:11 PM (3myMJ)

410 Looks like an improvement to me, especially the removal of the mandates.



Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at June 22, 2017 04:49 PM (WzbqD)


It doesn't remove the mandates... that was a lie when the House said it and it is equally a lie now.

Posted by: redbanzai at June 22, 2017 05:29 PM (geAkB)

411 It's so complicated. I have listened to several podcasts over the past few years and Avik Roy sure makes a ton of sense. Him being in favor of it makes me think much better of it.
Forget a libertarian free market health care system. Medicare, Medicaid, VA and Indian Health Services makes up so much of our healthcare that the insurance companies model based on CMS. Government isn't going to leave us alone.

Posted by: Joe Mack at June 22, 2017 06:34 PM (mBYZv)

412 Fuckin traitors, feed'em to the antifa's, not like those worms could tell the difference anyway.

Posted by: Josho at June 22, 2017 07:12 PM (qG7Of)

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