Yes, #NeverTrumpers, You Are In Fact Morally Responsible for the Hillary Clinton Presidency You're Agitating For

Sorry, I was on Twitter. I felt it was necessary to dispel the widely-held myth, adored by #NeverTrumpers, that somehow attacking Trump relentlessly does not aid Hillary Clinton, and that they are not choosing Hillary Clinton by choosing to be NeverTrump.

All choices have consequences. By supporting Trump, I am responsible for the consequences of a Trump victory -- and those consequences could indeed be dire.

But a childish morally-unserious fantasy has infected the #NeverTrump not-so-intellgentsia, that they can agitate for Hillary Clinton -- by relentlessly disparaging Trump -- and somehow, they are not responsible for the consequences of the Hillary presidency they are bucking for.

They've dreamed up this self-pleasing, responsibility-evading dreamscape in which those who plump for Trump are responsible for the outcomes of a Trump presidency, but, for no explanation thusfar discoverable, they are not responsible for the outcomes of the Hillary presidency they're agitating for.

I tried to explain to them that there is no such thing as a consequence-free choice -- all choices have consequences, both on the upside and the downside -- and both the upside and downswide consequences must be considered by any adult, intellectually-serious person in making his choice.

But they like this idea that, like little children, they are free to gambol and play in the fields and this does not even perturb the leading edge of a butterfly's wing, and so they just keep teling me "No you're wrong" without saying why I'm wrong.

Which, seriously, is a rather important part of any argument beginning with the words "You're wrong."

I ask people: When you knocked Obama in 2012, and wrote posts and comments noting his flaws, did you think you were doing nothing to improve Mitt Romney's chances of winning the presidency?

If so-- why the fuck did you bother?

Of course, this is silly; everyone knows that when one buys ads attacking a candidate, one is helping that candidate's opponent win.


The #NeverTrumpers are filling their blogs, magazines, and Twitter timelines with nonstop political advertising (free) against Trump, and maintain, just because they say so and because it pleases them to think so, this does exactly nothing to help Hillary, and they are therefore not responsibe for her election.

Or let me put it this way: I am not hoping for Trump to get into some serious international snafu by supporting him. Yet I know that is a very real possibility if he's president.

Should this happen, I can't just say "But I didn't want trump to screw up so badly."

People would say -- no, but you knew the risks in supporting him, and you supported him anyway; you are therefore morally responsible for this.

Yet the #NeverTrumpers claim that the obvious, inescapable outcome of their position -- that Hillary Clinton will be the president -- is not their responsibility, just because they didn't intend that as a pirmary matter.

No, but they were completely aware it was the natural and inevitable consequence of their position.

So why would a Trump supporter be responsible for a foreign policy catastrophe he didn't even know for a fact would happen, when a #NeverTrumper claims to be innocent of the Hillary Presidency they know beyond a shadow of any doubt is the direct and inescapable consequence of the NeverTrump posiition?

They're responsible for it. They don't want to be, but they are.

I don't particularly want to be on the hook for a Trump presidency, but, being a morally serious person who has not yet delegated my thinking to the Twitter Hivemind, I recognize that by taking the action of lending him my support, I am responsible for the conseqyences of that act.

Why do the childish #NeverTrumpers mewl that they, alone in the universe, are not responsiblee for the consequences of their own choices?

I understand the #NeverTrump impulse. I've expressed it myself. After Trump's boorish, vulgar, half-insane attack on Cruz's wife, I announced "I'm done" with Trump and vowed to never vote for him.

I understand #NeverTrump, emotionally. I think there's merit in the position.

However, we have difficult choices to make. And difficult choices should be treated as what they are -- difficult, hard choices requiring moral seriousness and rigorous cost-benefit analysis.

They should not be made --artificially and falsely -- into easy-breezy decisions where one just says "I will do everything I can to make sure Trump is defeated, and I shall never give a thought to the prospect of a Hillary presidency, and I should never allow my shoulders to feel the burden of the consequences of the choice I am making."

Real men -- and tough-minded women -- do not go fleeing tough choices by simply hallucinating an "Officer Dimes, please come and save me" miracle solution.

Either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will be president in November.

If you think Hillary would be a better president -- or if Trump is so repulsive to you you cannot support him even if you think Hillary would be worse -- fine. I respect your opinion.

We all have different brains. We all have different priorities.

But what I must insist you cannot do -- what i will not permit you to do -- is fantasize that while a Trump supporter is resonsible for the gaffes and disasters of a President Trump, you are somehow innocent of the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary.

Trump supporters will own the consequences of a Trump presidency -- and Hillary supporters, both those who declare it proudly and those who wish it secretly -- own the consequences of a Hillary presidency.

Adults accept the consequences of their choices.

Only children run from them, or cross their fingers behind their backs and claim that's a charm insulating them from the consequences of their choices.

Some decisions are hard. They should be respected as being hard.

And no, Officer Dimes is not coming to save you from the dilemma you face.

Posted by: Ace at 04:19 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 It's funny how easily "Republicans" will criticize Obama for not having the foresight, wisdom, brains, etc. to see the unintended consequences of his actions, and yet they refuse to see their own.

Even Obama gets this one, gang. A non-vote for Trump is a win for Hillary. Even President 4Putt gets this... why don't you?

Posted by: RobM1981 at July 21, 2016 04:22 PM (VVBN7)

2 If I lived in a swing state, I'd be very much ready to pull for Trump.

I live in SC.

I'm voting for Johnson, because a protest vote isn't any good unless it makes no sense.

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:22 PM (mC1ZI)

3 Mom, why are they taking all our guns?

Assholes in 2016 didn't story Hillary and the Supreme Court decided only milta's can have guns.

Thank you JEB.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:22 PM (pCWkr)

4 Very true. Thank you Ace.

Posted by: Martell at July 21, 2016 04:22 PM (DPtAq)

5 Sock off.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at July 21, 2016 04:23 PM (mC1ZI)

6 That's what I like about Ace. You give everybody hell!

Posted by: Jackal at July 21, 2016 04:23 PM (Lyh9/)

7 FOOD FIGHT!!!!

Posted by: John Blutarsky at July 21, 2016 04:23 PM (8ZskC)

8 It's great that the GOPe got blown up. It's too bad that he was the guy with the TNT. The choices suck donkey balls, but I cannot fathom what things will be like under Hillary. No effing way.

Posted by: Minnfidel at July 21, 2016 04:23 PM (dNwFH)

9 When did Ace lose his balls?

Posted by: Puddin Head


When did your mother stop beating you with her dildo?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 04:24 PM (VY8H5)

10 Truly a sad day.

We are run my Pokemon idiots and Entertainment tonight stars.

We are no longer a serious nation.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:24 PM (pCWkr)

11 everything Ace said above, X 100.

life is tough... it's tougher when you're stupid.

Posted by: redc1c4 at July 21, 2016 04:25 PM (wIatL)

12 I don't just imagine what things are like under Hillary....

Posted by: Huma at July 21, 2016 04:25 PM (XoZo5)

13 But a childish morally-unserious fantasy has infected the #NeverTrump
not-so-intellgentsia, that they can agitate for Hillary Clinton -- by
relentlessly disparaging Trump -- and somehow, they are not responsible for the consequences of the Hillary presidency they are bucking for.

Damn Ace you're as naive as a 14 year old Mormon girl. Hillary is an insider, one of them, and as such she's preferable to Trump, now they can't come out and say that and still be the intelligentsia of the GOP, so they candy coat it with a moral imperative. The truth is she's more of the same, and they can live with that, they know how to navigate those waters, but Trump is off the map in 'here there be monsters' territory.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 04:25 PM (xmQSf)

14 a rapist a felon in the White House, this is going to be fun

Posted by: the dude at July 21, 2016 04:25 PM (SyKbw)

15 Exactly how I feel Ace.

Posted by: Seems Legit at July 21, 2016 04:25 PM (U+nHb)

16 When did your mother stop beating you with her dildo?
---
when he was born... now he just licks it clean for her.

Posted by: redc1c4 at July 21, 2016 04:25 PM (wIatL)

17 Halt
Shoulder arms
Aim
Fire at will

*ducks, heads for exit*

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:26 PM (8ZskC)

18 The founders, dirty old white men, NEVER envisioned letting non property owners vote.


When you have no skin in the game, you don't give a shit

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:26 PM (pCWkr)

19 Areas where Trump might be useful, or even good, for the nation:

Defense. The military has been pissing away huge amounts of money on idiotic "systems." Trump really might stop this, and direct the money towards systems and training and spares (etc.) that work.

The border. Controlling - not closing - the border is such an obvious thing. Remember that Hillary will open it permanently. We'll never get it back if we go another 4 years.

2nd Amendment

Supreme Court Appointments

Maybe Obamacare

These are just off the top of my head. There are other topics where he *might* be better than Hillary, but in these four, and maybe 5, he *will* be. Maybe the deficit, too.

Aren't these important enough for you?

Yes, he has ADHD. Yes, he's a jerk. Suck it up, buttercup - unless you want these 4 topics to fall to the Clintons.

Posted by: RobM1981 at July 21, 2016 04:26 PM (VVBN7)

20 I hope you stay Ace !! This blog is simply the best for informing me about what is really going on. True some of the commenters are idiots. God bless and thanks for the ride

Posted by: NativeNH at July 21, 2016 04:26 PM (+k6Wu)

21 I don't just imagine what things are like under Hillary....
Posted by: Huma at July 21, 2016 04:25 PM (XoZo5)



The odor must be horrific

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:26 PM (8ZskC)

22 There are only two boxes that matter on the ballot.
You won't see one for:
[ ] Holding my breath, you big poopy head.

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 04:27 PM (QM5S2)

23 $130 MILLION .... that is what JEB! set on fire.

wow

Posted by: torabora at July 21, 2016 04:27 PM (XoZo5)

24 What does a First Rapist wear to a State dinner?

Asking for a friend.

*hic*

Posted by: Hillary! 2016 Barking For Us at July 21, 2016 04:27 PM (8ZskC)

25 I have one child in the Navy in the South China Sea, another in a country in Putin's crosshairs, and two nephews currently in the Middle East where they are officially are not supposed to be.

I fear no matter what choice I make these kids are going to bear the brunt of it. I honestly do not know what to do.

Posted by: moon over vermont at July 21, 2016 04:27 PM (kUmUV)

26 shitshitshit... you mean I really do have to hold my nose and vote for Trump?

Oh wait... no I don't. I live in California, so it doesn't matter.

Posted by: hindmost at July 21, 2016 04:27 PM (ziAjJ)

27 Trump, making "The Catfish". Look sane.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:28 PM (pCWkr)

28 I got a ggg-good brain.

Posted by: Simple Jack, columnist at July 21, 2016 04:28 PM (eXSOZ)

29 Clowns to left, jokers to the right. I'm stuck in the middle with you.

Welcome to the Dog and Pony Show (Repub Convention)

Posted by: Just Because at July 21, 2016 04:28 PM (kQnIT)

30 Thanks for this Ace.

Can't stand Trump, was hoping for Rubio, but I sure as fuck don't want Hillary as President.

I like the 1st and 2nd Amendments too much.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at July 21, 2016 04:28 PM (1JnAL)

31 When did Ace lose his balls?

Posted by: Puddin Head at July 21, 2016 04:22 PM (cMYt2)

Go somewhere else then. HotAir...LGF...there are lots of places for people like you.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 21, 2016 04:28 PM (k2fxD)

32 Because if they can't bat, they'll take their ball and go home. They don't care if their team won't win, they want all of the glory.

Politics is high school (maybe even grade school) with money and power.

Posted by: Walter Watson at July 21, 2016 04:28 PM (OHOwA)

33 I fear no matter what choice I make these kids are going to bear the brunt of it. I honestly do not know what to do.
Posted by: moon over vermont at July 21, 2016 04:27 PM (kUmUV)

-------

Hillary has already murdered 4. To my knowledge Trump hasn't.

Posted by: Seems Legit at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (U+nHb)

34 Or I won't vote for either, because I find neither a morally palatable choice. You're free to dislike that decision.

Posted by: Hal at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (pwt3U)

35 Ace, please check comment 1304 in the Cruz doubles down thread.

Thanks

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (mC1ZI)

36 1304 I hope the illegals President Hillary allows in rape and murder Ted Cruz's children.
Posted by: Garbage Pail Kids at July 21, 2016 04:28 PM (MiGRM)

======================

For reference.

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (mC1ZI)

37 @29

The "Kingfish' not Catfsh

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (pCWkr)

38 Or I won't vote for either, because I find neither a morally palatable choice. You're free to dislike that decision.

Posted by: Hal at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (pwt3U)



President Hillary thanks you for your support.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:30 PM (8ZskC)

39 I'm a Cruz guy but yeah, this.

I don't get the #NeverTrump != #Hilliary2016

Of course it is.

Voting for Trump since #NeverHilliary

Posted by: WinLinBSDAdmin at July 21, 2016 04:30 PM (B11vO)

40 what will things be like with Hillary as POTUS?

a cross between Atlas Shrugged and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich featuring the worst parts of both, as designed by Kafka.

Posted by: redc1c4 at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (wIatL)

41 @39. That's not very Nice.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (hqZPQ)

42 41
President Hillary thanks you for your support.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:30 PM (8ZskC)

====================

3rd parties are more likely to pull from Hillary than Trump.

So...no.

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (mC1ZI)

43 Great post, ace!

Posted by: @votermom at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (7lVbc)

44 NeverTrumpers oppose both Hillary and Trump. I'm planning to vote for the Constitutional Party this year. Why would one pro-abortion, corrupt NY liberal be better than another? Trump has come out in favor of higher taxes, socialized medicine, eminent domain, government control of business hiring and firing, freedom of the press, and until he started pretending to be pro-life, partial birth abortion. Just yesterday he threatened to betray our NATO partners. He is the opposite of Ronald Reagan in every way, and on the same page with Hillary on almost every issue apart from the obvious wall lie.

Posted by: Shooter McGavin at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (OD23t)

45 A vote for Hillary is a vote for the "burning" we have all claimed to want. An illegal and stacked supreme court will put us on the path of the national divorce we all claim.

A vote for Trump just delays it even further.

That's how I look at it. I don't publicly disparage Trump, because I don't want to help Hillary as you said. I recognize that. But honestly there is a silver lining to the Hillary presidency, and I recognize that too. Start the national breakup.

Posted by: Cashin at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (Dz5N7)

46 Meanwhile, Paul Ryan doesn't seem to understand Texas football. At all.

Posted by: Lauren at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (v3zRt)

47 44 @39. That's not very Nice.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (hqZPQ)

=================

No, it wasn't. And I hope that Ace is feeling banny, because that was awful.

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (mC1ZI)

48 The shocking thing is, we're often talking about politicians not getting on board here. These people are experts in spinning an argument. Cruz could very easily have noted that he has some major differences with Trump, but plans to vote for him in November, and hopes everyone else will, too. Boom, done.

The hate is just surreal. I understand not liking Trump, but you can try to spin the positives, like Newt, or emphasize the negatives. I didn't like Romney, but I didn't shit on him every day, either. Hell, Ace even had an article a while back talking about how he acted much more enthusiastic about Romney than he really was. There's nothing wrong with that...if you want to beat Hillary, that's your only choice at this point!

There are too many who seem invested in Trump's defeat, just so they can purify the party or say "I told you so". Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's amazing Trump is polling as well as he is in spite of all the opposition within the Republican party. If people would dutifully line up like they have in the past, this election would be in the bag.

Posted by: Grimaldi at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (oTcMf)

49 A lot of these #NEVERTRUMPkins are talkers and writers whose stock goes up with a hillery win.
Rush's net worth skyrocketed when Bill was in office.
They seriously do not care about not-themselves.

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (QM5S2)

50 The thing about being against Trump now is that if Trump loses, do you think that the Trump supporters are just going to magically support Cruz or whoever in 2020?

No, they will not.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (1JnAL)

51 Cankles has already murdered 4. To my knowledge Trump hasn't.

Understood, and i'll never in a million years vote Cankles. I also honestly do not trust Trump to be in charge of the military. As Ace says, it is going to be one or the other, hence my despair.

Posted by: moon over vermont at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (kUmUV)

52 Areas where Trump might be useful, or even good, for the nation:

Defense. The military has been pissing away huge amounts of money on idiotic "systems." Trump really might stop this, and direct the money towards systems and training and spares (etc.) that work.

The border. Controlling - not closing - the border is such an obvious thing. Remember that Hillary will open it permanently. We'll never get it back if we go another 4 years.

2nd Amendment

Supreme Court Appointments

Maybe Obamacare

These are just off the top of my head. There are other topics where he *might* be better than Hillary, but in these four, and maybe 5, he *will* be. Maybe the deficit, too.

Aren't these important enough for you?

Yes, he has ADHD. Yes, he's a jerk. Suck it up, buttercup - unless you want these 4 topics to fall to the Clintons.

Posted by: RobM1981 at July 21, 2016 04:26 PM
.....^^^^This time eleventy.

Posted by: Minnfidel at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (dNwFH)

53 3rd parties are more likely to pull from Hillary than Trump.

So...no.

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (mC1ZI)



Read the freaking post.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (8ZskC)

54 I've always thought of myself as a #NeverPlumper.

Except for Pam Poovey.

Posted by: Sterling Archer at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (hqZPQ)

55 For what it's worth, I see Trump as the Let It Burn candidate.

Many of us are fed up with the pandering of the GOP and their empty promises. They could have done a lot. They used their power to support Obama.

So we have Trump. I take full responsibility for my vote, and pray that he does not do lasting damage to this nation. Which the current president HAS done.

Do I think that he'll be worse than Hillary? No

Do I think he'll be worse than Obama? No

Do I think he'll be better than Bush? Maybe

Do I think he'll be Reagan? No

But Trump does love America, and I can only hope and pray that given the opportunity, he will do well for us.

I don't believe that Hillary will even try.

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (tvyXw)

56 The fucking world is going to hell and my stupid home paper Charlotte Observer, is worried about the NBA All Star game moving because of Ghey Bill.


Unfuckingbelieveable

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (pCWkr)

57 Posted by: Puddin Head at July 21, 2016 04:22 PM (cMYt2)

= Super Creepy Rob Lowe (oDCMR )

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (VY8H5)

58 38
In order for this country to get back to conservative governance
EVERYTHING about the trump movement has to be repudiated and put to
death.

If the same twitter brownshirts who have told the rest of us that we
are traitors for sticking to our principles and cucks for not needing
to be in a mob to feel empowered can't pull this election off then you
will be a joke from here on in, which is as it should have been all
along.

Posted by: DrewM Sucks at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (ywZNz)

Yeah, because you're way has worked so well so far. When you've lost the country, the culture and the entire way of life, when failure for decades is your accomplishment, then maybe it's time to quit talking about how you know what the path forward is.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (xmQSf)

59

flashing lights at drudge are carnival like

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (qCMvj)

60 I have one child in the Navy in the South China Sea,
another in a country in Putin's crosshairs, and two nephews currently
in the Middle East where they are officially are not supposed to be.



I fear no matter what choice I make these kids are going to bear the brunt of it. I honestly do not know what to do.

Posted by: moon over vermont at July 21, 2016 04:27 PM (kUmUV)

go with the one who is not responsible for the deaths of our service personnel overseas, who did not compromise our security and who is not compromised by enemies foreign and domestic

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (c6/9Q)

61
Quickest. Retirement. From Politics. Evah.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (27m1/)

62 I'm #NeverHillary. I'm dedicated to not helping elect that that criminal into office. So I'm voting for Johnson. There, I've absolved myself of responsibility, if she wins, I was #NeverHillary from the START.

Full disclaimer: I live in MA, so I'm really going to vote for Hillary, because everyone in MA is. That's how our electoral system works. I need a drink...

Posted by: Steven S. at July 21, 2016 04:34 PM (iYydO)

63 56 Read the freaking post.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:32 PM (8ZskC)

====================

I did. I also know that 3rd parties devolve into nothing by the end and this year will be no different (Johnson has already begun to fade and it's not even August).

I can sit here pretty and virtual signal all day cause I live in a safely red state. Doesn't mean my vote for Johnson will do anything for helping Hillary.

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:34 PM (mC1ZI)

64 Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown.

Posted by: Peter Venkman at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (g6yUI)

65 59 For what it's worth, I see Trump as the Let It Burn candidate.

Many of us are fed up with the pandering of the GOP and their empty promises. They could have done a lot. They used their power to support Obama.

So we have Trump. I take full responsibility for my vote, and pray that he does not do lasting damage to this nation. Which the current president HAS done.

Do I think that he'll be worse than Hillary? No

Do I think he'll be worse than Obama? No

Do I think he'll be better than Bush? Maybe

Do I think he'll be Reagan? No

But Trump does love America, and I can only hope and pray that given the opportunity, he will do well for us.

I don't believe that Hillary will even try.
Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 21, 2016 04:33 PM (tvyXw)

======================

You really want to make it burn? Vote Hillary.

It'll be ashes real soon.

Posted by: Mr. Trump at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (mC1ZI)

66 Trump supporters will own the consequences of a Trump presidency -- and Hillary supporters, both those who declare it proudly and those who wish it secretly -- own the consequences of a Hillary presidency.

I think Trump supporters are at least equally on the hook for a Hillary presidency. They, after all, are responsible for this Sophie's choice that we all now face between Trump and HRC.

#nevertrumpers were clear during the primaries that they would, well, never vote for Trump. So the Trumpsters knew before voting for him that he couldn't get the votes of a significant portion of the R party, making and HRC victory that much more likely. But vote for him they did anyway, in order to send a big FU to the "establishment". If they cared more about defeating Hillary than sending that message to the "establishment, they wouldn't have voted for Trump in the first place.

An HRC victory will be primarily on them, as far as I am concerned.

Posted by: ScottC at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (iBCbx)

67 They've dreamed up this self-pleasing, responsibility-evading dreamscape...

They've become Liberals?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (rJOC2)

68 47 NeverTrumpers oppose both Hillary and Trump. I'm planning to vote for the Constitutional Party this year. Why would one pro-abortion, corrupt NY liberal be better than another? Trump has come out in favor of higher taxes, socialized medicine, eminent domain, government control of business hiring and firing, freedom of the press, and until he started pretending to be pro-life, partial birth abortion. Just yesterday he threatened to betray our NATO partners. He is the opposite of Ronald Reagan in every way, and on the same page with Hillary on almost every issue apart from the obvious wall lie.
Posted by: Shooter McGavin at July 21, 2016 04:31 PM (OD23t)

--------------------------------------------------------
With the media scrutiny on Trump, I can't see him doing any of this-he would want to piss off the media and thus the libs.

Posted by: WinLinBSDAdmin at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (B11vO)

69 To steal from Alexthechick. Everyone is covering themselves in something, and it sure ain't Glory.

Posted by: buzzion at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (z/Ubi)

70 Good job, Ace! Thanks for putting them in their place.

Posted by: Dick at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (+eR2D)

71 Not voting isn't helping to make sure Hillary doesn't win but depending on where you live it might not matter some states will go to Hillary no matter who's child she kills.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (bksJQ)

72

Here's the thing. I don't trust any odyssey really. Not Cruz or Trump or GOPE. All fallible


We get too caught up in these things we have very little control of. This sort of passion and energy should be spent on my family and not here

I actually feel awful. Guilty. Change begins in my home. In me. Not the voting booth

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 04:36 PM (zOTsN)

73 CAIR warns against backlash from tomorrow's Islamic terror attack.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 21, 2016 04:36 PM (evdj2)

74 We are an unserious people. We have been for years. It's too bad people are mad at trump for exposing how unserious as a people we are. People want wrestlemania for a convention he gives them wrestlemania. The fault is not with trump. It is with ourselves. Trumps reflects who we are. I for one support him because I think to see this and recognize shows his intelligence not his idiocy. Other people are offended to learn they are not the special snowflakes they believe themselves to be. This delusion is present in all #nevertrump and "trumptard" and baby boomer and millennial. Like Russell Crowe crying out from the arena to us Donald trump stands to ask "Are you not entertained?"

Posted by: Gov98 at July 21, 2016 04:36 PM (MaUQj)

75 #NeverTrump

I'm voting for Johnson. He isn't perfect...I'm thrilled with a pot smoking hippy...but he can bridge the gap between Bernie Bros and CruzCrew.


If Hillary wins....that would suck....but many people predicted that would happen if Trump was the nominee.


Johnson is the Conservatives last chance at stopping Hillary, not Trump.

Posted by: Ginned up Controversy at July 21, 2016 04:36 PM (QSZu4)

76 The Ricochet podcast has become unlistenable precisely because of this.

Yes, we get that you don't like Trump. Try saying something about Hillary, A FUCKING FELON IN LINE FOR THE PRESIDENCY, every once in a while.

Posted by: the dwarves are for the dwarves at July 21, 2016 04:36 PM (2WoCi)

77 Ugh

Don't trust anybody, at least not anyone who runs for office

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 04:36 PM (zOTsN)

78 48
A vote for Hillary is a vote for the "burning" we have all claimed to
want. An illegal and stacked supreme court will put us on the path of
the national divorce we all claim.
---

Will it?

Or we simply slide into solid third world status, with all the graft and corruption that brings?

Are you personally willing to risk giving your children a future where there are two sets of laws?

Or a future where the economy is constantly stagnant and to live, you MUST collect government benefits?

Do you want to take a chance and be a servant of the state?

I don't.

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (tvyXw)

79 I'm not a huge fan of Mr. Trump and am still amazed that he is the nominee. That said when you think about voting for someone else or Hillary or not at all please consider the votes of young people. I have three adult children who are more Libertarian than anything and my best case scenario is that they don't vote at all.

Posted by: Cindy Munford at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (3uOKP)

80 Ah, but the #NeverTrumpers will counter with "Because of his overall craziness and polarizing ways, he was never going to beat her anyway, so don't blame me for her inevitable ascension to the throne."

Posted by: Brendan at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (/dgGU)

81
Whatever happens, it is conservatives and non-Democrats/Liberals who will own the failures of Hilary or Trump.

And if Trump somehow becomes the second coming of Calvin Coolidge, the MFM will invent failure for him to be responsible for.

Lather, rinse, re-priebus.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (27m1/)

82 But a childish morally-unserious fantasy has infected the #NeverTrump not-so-intellgentsia, that they can agitate for Hillary Clinton -- by relentlessly disparaging Trump -- and somehow, they are not responsible for the consequences of the Hillary presidency they are bucking for.

yup
it's fruitloops

I posted this piece earlier today:

To All the Peter Pan Republicans: Trump Bests Captain Crook Clinton
The businessman succeeds where the GOP has failed


excerpt

In their fictional clashes, Neverland's perpetually adolescent Peter Pan and his Lost Boys--no matter the sword play and dire straits--eventually bested the villainous Captain Hook and his pirate crew.

How wonderful escapist fiction, where pre-pubescents fly if they just believe.

But GetRealLand's a bitch of a place, where you wake up and the accelerating whine you hear isn't dream noise but an incoming 82 millimeter mortar round.

...

George Will says he is no longer a Republican. OK, he's still a free man, he can choose. By Washington acclamation he's an intellectual. But, when the stakes are weighed, Will is just another Lost Boy.



http://observer.com/2016/07/to-all-the-peter-pan-republicans-trump-bests-captain-crook-clinton/

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (qCMvj)

83 I don't really like Trump, but I am damned sure voting for him to stave off the Hillary disaster. The problem this election is the GOPe and their Twitter buddies - the Howes, Miller, Hayes, etc - are not only attacking Trump, but attacking anyone who dares vote for him over Hillary.

These pundits were never on our side. They were always on their own side.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (bc7LP)

84 Fox had a alert saying Hillary's VP pick is forthcoming

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (bksJQ)

85 Cui Bono?

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (QM5S2)

86 The Ace haters won't know whether to shit or go blind from this thread.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (evdj2)

87 i am part of the never hillary camp. yeah trump is a big mouth, shoot from the hip guy. but, the alternative is beyond the pale. that wretched sack of shit belongs in prison, not the white house. the choice is pretty damn obvious if you are paying attention. the repukes had their chance to find a viable old guard fuckball to lead them. they fucking blew it. such is life. the last two hoseheads they nominated were pathetic, everyone knows that. this is where we are.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (ucDmr)

88 Twitter is Ace's crusty jerk sock.

Posted by: wooga at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (yX7yv)

89 One of these days we're going to hit our most used site and get a 404 or an all black page if this ice picking each other doesn't stop. Lots of new names playing shit-stir chef today too.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (dYAUx)

90 I still don't know if I'll vote for Trump. Some days I say yes, others Hell No.

For the first time in my life, I'm the dreaded undecided voter.

Posted by: Lauren at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (v3zRt)

91 Like Russell Crowe crying out from the arena to us Donald trump stands to ask "Are you not entertained?"

Posted by: Gov98 at July 21, 2016 04:36 PM


Damn it. I'm now visualizing Trump as Bigus Dickus.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (bzd8I)

92 Going old fashioned and giving this post a


+1!

Posted by: Mr. Mxyzptlk at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (kHJ3a)

93 But what I must insist you cannot do -- what i will not permit you to do
-- is fantasize that while a Trump supporter is resonsible for the
gaffes and disasters of a President Trump, you are somehow innocent of
the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary.

* * *

No matter how bad it gets, they will never, ever accede to this. Just as Aboma's true believers can shut out that which is inconvenient to consider.

It's called doublethink. It's very real and no one, potentially, is immune from it.

Posted by: doomed at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (bGLSw)

94 87 I don't really like Trump, but I am damned sure voting for him to stave off the Hillary disaster. The problem this election is the GOPe and their Twitter buddies - the Howes, Miller, Hayes, etc - are not only attacking Trump, but attacking anyone who dares vote for him over Hillary.

These pundits were never on our side. They were always on their own side.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (bc7LP)


And this is where we were not 24 hours ago, pre-Cruz.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (27m1/)

95 In order for this country to get back to
conservative governance EVERYTHING about the trump movement has to be
repudiated and put to death.
Posted by: DrewM Sucks at July 21, 2016 04:29 PM (ywZNz)
Would that be the "conservative governance" under Obama Boehner? Or the "conservative governance" of George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush. Or the "conservative governance" of Nixon and Eisenhower?

The Republican Party establishment for the last century has been content to play the role of a show opposition, and you're pleading with us not to rock the boat.

Posted by: My Ridiculously Circuitous Plan at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (FohCt)

96 Excellent Post.

Even if the Never Trumpers come around, I think it's too late. The damage has been done.

I still think (perhaps delusionalaly) that Trump wins fairly comfortably. Assuming he spends some money on ads of course.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at July 21, 2016 04:39 PM (cPMmb)

97 AILES STEPS ASIDE AT FOXNEWS; WILL REMAIN AT PARENT COMPANY AS ADVISER

I take this as retired, and not starting a new channel.

Too bad.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 04:39 PM (qCMvj)

98 88 Fox had a alert saying Hillary's VP pick is forthcoming
Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (bksJQ)


Forthcoming. Isn't that Monica Lewinsky's dry cleaners?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:39 PM (27m1/)

99 Here's the thing. I held my nose and voted for McCain and Romney. I said that I would never vote for another establishment dink, no matter whom it was. Well he's not establishment obviously, but I can't hold my nose when it's Hillary? Nonsense. I have never been less enthused about voting. But I will, it sucks but the reasons not to are too great. There's just too much on the line so I'll gag, wretch a little and vote for him. Ugh, I need a drink.

Posted by: Minnfidel at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (dNwFH)

100 Trump was DOA because his supporters are idiots...

This is the prevailing GOPe opinion. Probably true, though, Every single person who supports Trump is a dope. They were polled, or something.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (bc7LP)

101 Why?


This is not the "safe space" I was hoping for in retirement and sure as hell not what I hoped my sons would inherit.



Obama wins, destroying 240 years of freedom in eight years.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (pCWkr)

102 Fox had a alert saying Hillary's VP pick is forthcoming

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (bksJQ)

bitch trying to steal some spotlight

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (c6/9Q)

103 @38 "In order for this country to get back to conservative governance EVERYTHING about the trump movement has to be repudiated and put to death."
************************************************
4-8 years of Hillary and Bill Clinton gets us back to con governance quicker than 4-8 of Trump? Show your work.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (q00GQ)

104

Tend your own gardens. Your own flock

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (zOTsN)

105 Worst part? If you do get a Hillary Presidency they will also sit there, point and say "I told you so", as if they had nothing to do with it.

Life is usually an "either-or" set of circumstances and decisions. In Social Media Delerium" every choice is inconsequential unless you say so. Like a five year old on the playground. It's a bunch of alleged adults parading as juveniles.

If anything, this election. Has exposed a fairly sizable amount of people calling themselves "intellectuals" or "principled" who are really just frauds.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (LeWOe)

106 Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (bc7LP)


Apropos of nothing, are you going to have to go on the street for the DNC, Wyatt?

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (evdj2)

107 Any guesses on Don Clinton's VP pick?

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (qUNWi)

108 Look guys, if you can't vote for Trump for your own sake, do it for Pat Smith.
I'm serious - at least let her see some karma visit the woman who let her son die.

Posted by: @votermom at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (7lVbc)

109 4-8 years of Hillary and Bill Clinton gets us back to con governance quicker than 4-8 of Trump? Show your work.
Posted by: ChampionCapua at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (q00GQ)

---------

Yes, show your work, you make no sense as stated.

Posted by: Seems Legit at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (U+nHb)

110 103
Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (pCWkr)

It was probably termite ridden for quite some time before Obama. He just kicked in the door and the thing came crashing down.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (27m1/)

111 Thanks for this Ace, I have been following along on twitter this afternoon.

My biggest wish right now, for the #nevertrump crowd is to have them take their seat on the bench and wait this thing out. Vote for whoever the f**K you want, or don't vote, or vote down ticket and leave the president blank.

But the neverending barrage of attacks over every stupid little thing... this is the stuff of liberal democrats. I too am prepared to accept the consequences of my actions, I will get in line with the pitchfork if I am wrong about how I think this will go.

Join in defeating Hillary, or STFU and get out of the way.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (Uy8SG)

112 Apropos of nothing, are you going to have to go on the street for the DNC, Wyatt?]/i]

As of the latest orders, no. I'm working 12-hour shifts and my days off are canceled, but I'll be working my regular division. Half my coworkers will be down in the trenches, though.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:42 PM (bc7LP)

113 Well said, Ace.

What interesting times we live in.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 04:42 PM (1ZOkK)

114

Corey Booker


GAY AND BLACK

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 04:42 PM (zOTsN)

115 107 Any guesses on Don Clinton's VP pick?
Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:41 PM (qUNWi)


SURPRISE!!! Chelsea!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:42 PM (27m1/)

116 4 tears ago I voted for Romney. I detested Romney at the time and continue to do so. But, there was a choice to be made: 4 more years of Obama vs 4/8 years of Romney. I gritted my teeth and voted for the s.o.b.

It was a difficult thing to do, but the choice was uncomplicated.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 04:42 PM (R+30W)

117 Trump was DOA because his supporters are idiots...



This is the prevailing GOPe opinion. Probably true, though, Every
single person who supports Trump is a dope. They were polled, or
something.
---

Yes. Exactly.

Every single person who voted in the Republican primaries, and those who support him at the convention are obviously mouth breathing bible thumpers who are mentally retarded. They have never held a job, and are obviously all welfare queens and members of BLM. Each one of them also fully support climate change and didn't mean to vote for Trump, but did so because they're functional illiterates.

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (tvyXw)

118 Why do Republicans continually play into the media narrative. They continue to give the media all the ammo they need to make the GOP look stupid and the candidates to look even more stupid. It's amazing they win any elections at all.

You are not allowed to have a differing position. What's the difference between the DEM and GOP then?

Posted by: Vodka 4 the win at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (6ZQK1)

119 I know some real dopes who are supporting Trump.
Funny thing is, all of them are Democrats and/or non-voters.

I know smart people who want Trump as well. They have different reasons for supporting him, but the one thing they have in common is that none of them want to see Hillary in the WH. This is key.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (sxOdv)

120 bitch trying to steal some spotlight
Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 04:40 PM (c6/9Q)

---------

Seriously. That would be some truly c88t like behavior to announce tonight.

Posted by: Seems Legit at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (U+nHb)

121 Half my coworkers will be down in the trenches, though.

Are you hearing anything from your snitches? Trouble brewing?

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (evdj2)

122 Aquinas' law of double effect.

Posted by: Yuimetal at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (XnLTM)

123 Haha ace, #plumpfortump baby! Love it. My Sacred Principles impel me to vote for Trump-literally the only man who is in a position to do the job. And tied in Ohio with Hillary.

NATO-Partners should pay their share.

Free Trade-Great in theory-impossible with countries utilizing literal slave labor.

Immigration-Close it, figure it out, and then get serious about how we open it again.

Supreme Court-Enough said.

Guns-Enough said.

The press and SJW's-Fight like a mad dog.

Foreign Adventures-Throw out the neo-cons and starting thinking America first.

Posted by: Alex #11 at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (EUMt/)

124 Every single person who voted in the Republican primaries, and those who support him at the convention are obviously mouth breathing bible thumpers who are mentally retarded. They have never held a job, and are obviously all welfare queens and members of BLM. Each one of them also fully support climate change and didn't mean to vote for Trump, but did so because they're functional illiterates.

FTR, my comment was sarcastic.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (bc7LP)

125 @43

Obviously you job NOTHING about US history.


Google up Huey Long, The Kingfish. Not Amos and Andy Kingfish. The Stupid is Strong

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (pCWkr)

126 I said this on another thready today, but I'm repeating it here because it's very revelant:

Guys-Let's steer the ship AWAY from the ice berg first. THEN we can argue about how the deck chairs are arranged.

What do you say?

Posted by: Agent Cooper at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (1zARK)

127 114

Corey Booker

GAY AND BLACK
Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 04:42 PM (zOTsN)


Black folk look down on homosexuals. Especially their own. Remember Prop 8 in California? It had massive support among black voters there.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (27m1/)

128 I have discovered the perfect way to read and watch convention news. Take painkillers. Things that would normally make your BP go through the roof won't faze you one bit. If only I had like 50 refills of this stuff instead of 0 refills (boo hiss, doctor)

If you can brace yourself to fall down the stairs or take a hammer to your knee, yeah ok you will have an ouch and a boo boo, but if it helps you tolerate asshats online and on TV its worth it.

Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V. (Brandishing ampersands) at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (P8951)

129 For the first time in my adult life I'm proud I live in MA (and my vote for POTUS don't mean shit).

Posted by: Moron plagiarizing Mooch at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (H9MG5)

130 Would Hillary lower herself to pick a dread white male running mate?

Magic 8 ball says fuck no.

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (qUNWi)

131 The Ricochet podcast has become unlistenable precisely because of this.

Yes, we get that you don't like Trump. Try saying something about Hillary, A FUCKING FELON IN LINE FOR THE PRESIDENCY, every once in a while.

Posted by: the dwarves


Ricochet is buring their brand to the quick with Claire. She's not a conservative.

She was stunned, stunned, that Brexit was successful. I can't even describe the parochial viewpoint that is needed to even attempt that fucking reaction.

And Lileks, that poor chap, WTF happened? I like that guy. He's just a sputtering mess on the flagship.

Peter's seems like an amicable bloke .. which is to say, exactly the kind of CA GOP that has found themselves in the fucking political wasteland. He waffles like Eggos steeped in Aunt Jemima and Kerry Gold.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (VY8H5)

132 It stopped being a Cruz possibly a month ago at least, I was a Ted supporter but that's not the fight anymore. It's all about stopping the career criminal before she continues the wrecking ball that Barak has started.
I don't like it but that's my choice now.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (bksJQ)

133 Side note.... in the event Trump wins... and I expect him to win.

That National Review Cruise is going to be off the chain.

At this juncture, because of the behavior of some of the #nevertrump allstars, a defeat of Hillary is a bonus, I will revel in the despair of these people, who were so wrong about so much. The National Review Cruise is going to be the place to be. Who wants to go?

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (Uy8SG)

134 An HRC victory will be primarily on them, as far as I am concerned.
Posted by: ScottC



So Obama is on you for only giving me McCain and Romney?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (3C84c)

135 I'm hearing Hillary's going to pick Kaine. Or Khan.

The Veep debate will be soporific, which helps Donald.

Unless it turns out to be Khan.

Kind of shitty to make the announcement during the other guys' convention tho.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (hqZPQ)

136 Clinton/Machiavelli '16!

Posted by: Peter Venkman at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (g6yUI)

137 Honestly, sometimes I think they're right when they say they aren't helping Hillary. I subscribe to The Weekly Standard, and recently ran across this line about trying to get a third-party candidate going:

Of course, putting together a serious independent campaign is a formidable task--but plenty of operatives and aides and donors and lawyers stand ready.

Saying stuff like this probably does help Trump. It aligns him against the political operatives, lawyers, and donor class.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (2lndx)

138 Why do the childish #NeverTrumpers mewl that they, alone in the universe, are not responsiblee for the consequences of their own choices?

some of them secretly really want Hillary, that's all I can come up with

and fear of losing the cheap and lazy gravy train - do basically nothing, get paid

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (qCMvj)

139 DUDE!!!! STOP.....TAKE A BREAK FROM THE INTERNET!!!! NOW!!!!!! Ace, you are losing your mind.....just stop! Cut yourself off from all media for a few weeks, go to church, help the elderly.....do more cooking and gardening......go do something completely selfless for other human beings and never tell a single soul about it!!!! You need to come down off your internet high horse pronto!

Posted by: Holly at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (u3niz)

140 It is possible to hate both Trump and Hillary, not vote for either, and truly not be secretly hoping for a Hillary presidency. My vote is my vote and I only vote for the people I actually cast my ballot for. A vote for Hillary is the only thing that is a vote for Hillary.



As for the pre-vote venting about Trump, you do have a point that that venting may be used to help Hillary. If I thought Trump would be any better, that might stop me from venting. I don't so it likely won't.




I am however still watching Trump for any indication that he actually means any of the bullshit he has been snowing people with. If I see that, if might change my mind.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (3JA/M)

141 @125

At 41. /not 43

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (pCWkr)

142
I'm #NeverTrump only because I think a Conservative vote for Trump guarantees no Conservatives in the RNC ever again. I have concluded logically that while my protest vote will help Hillary in the minutest possible way, if enough people agree with me then it will save the Conservative voice by making Conservatives necessary for the RNC to court instead of them just taking us for granted.

On the other hand, I have concluded voting for Trump means no Conservative ever gets nominated again, and that is infinitely worse than four years of Hillary. At least Republicans would know to oppose Hillary.

Conservativesface a choice this election. Getting kneecapped with a crowbar (Hillary) or getting shot in the face with a shotgun (Trump). I'll take the pain of Hillary over suicide.

Posted by: some1 at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (S5LAZ)

143 Is anyone swayed by an endorsement? So in the reverse is anyone swayed by a non-endorsement? Oh I was going to vote for Trump until Ted didn't endorse so never mind! I think it's crazy talk. If your swayed by an endorsement or non endorsement you ought to reconsider more than who you are voting for.

Posted by: Minnfidel at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (dNwFH)

144 Either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will be president in November.

THIS.

Image-concerned hankie-twisters who take such great pride in sitting it out because Trump is so yucky will have earned the blame for a Hillary presidency.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (8ZskC)

145 >>Any guesses on Don Clinton's VP pick?

Per news this a.m., it's down to Kaine, Perez, and Vilsak.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 21, 2016 04:45 PM (NOIQH)

146 Are you hearing anything from your snitches? Trouble brewing?

Hoping for the best, but fearing the worst. There will be plenty of protests, but our newly-elected drunken mayor basically told them they have free reign. The mayor doesn't want his beloved troublemakers arrested.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:45 PM (bc7LP)

147 "The non-sufficiently conservative nominee has no coherent policies! He's a non-principled idiot! Let's denigrate him and ostracize him and distance ourselves from his circle, insuring we will be of no use to the Conservative movement... except for clogging their lives with our relentless virtue-signalling social media posts" - Anti-Trump GOP influencers/advisors/thought leaders/pundits

Posted by: ChampionCapua at July 21, 2016 04:45 PM (q00GQ)

148 128
I have discovered the perfect way to read and watch convention news.
Take painkillers. Things that would normally make your BP go through
the roof won't faze you one bit. If only I had like 50 refills of this
stuff instead of 0 refills (boo hiss, doctor)



If you can brace yourself to fall down the stairs or take a hammer
to your knee, yeah ok you will have an ouch and a boo boo, but if it
helps you tolerate asshats online and on TV its worth it.
--

Mute the sound.

Less informative, but more enjoyable.

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 21, 2016 04:45 PM (tvyXw)

149 >>100 Trump was DOA because his supporters are idiots...


And this is precisely the type of idiotic generalization one might expect to come from someone who drinks the irresponsible contra intellectual Kool-aid Ace was referring to above.

But go tribe! Me! And all that.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 21, 2016 04:45 PM (LeWOe)

150 I'm guessing is Castro since Barak had the injustice department give him a get out of jail free card.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:45 PM (bksJQ)

151 You know, Ace, I like you.

You're a scrappy guy who fights for what he believes in.

But, like me, you know that sometimes you just gotta take a little time away from fighting all the time, and just stop and smell the flowers.

Otherwise, you'll just go bat shit insane, like that little green fartball guy. Sheesh, talk about wacked!

Guy shoulda just taken a break before insanity set in. Now he's strait-jacket material.

But, yeah, when you feel the walls closing in, take some time off.

I know this is what you need, because I'm pretty sure that you and I are just about the same kind of person deep down inside, where it counts.

So, join me at the bar.

First round is on me!

Oh, and Rupert Murdoch sucks donkey balls.




Posted by: Roger Ailes at July 21, 2016 04:45 PM (XdbLA)

152 Yes, if you're truly neverTrump and honestly don't want Hillary as President, then STFU and STFD.

Really, why don't they just go to the voting booth, not vote Trump and stay out of the way.

Posted by: Seems Legit at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (U+nHb)

153 116 4 tears ago I voted for Romney. I detested Romney at the time and continue to do so. But, there was a choice to be made: 4 more years of Obama vs 4/8 years of Romney. I gritted my teeth and voted for the s.o.b.

It was a difficult thing to do, but the choice was uncomplicated.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 04:42 PM (R+30W)


I seem to recall after '08, then '12 how so many here swore they would never again vote for "lesser of 2 evils."

And here we are again. It really is depressing as fuck.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (27m1/)

154
Kind of shitty to make the announcement during the other guys' convention tho.


Trump should have all sorts of buzz-stealing stuff ready to go.

Announce cabinet members, promises of indictments, policies, do interviews, run ads and pull stunts.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (g6yUI)

155 Damn it. I'm now visualizing Trump as Bigus Dickus.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (bzd8I)

Stwike him about the head, Centuwion!

Posted by: hindmost at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (ziAjJ)

156 The worst thing about the Trump supporters at all the obscene rallies is that they are so uncouth. They clap and cheer whenever they feel like it instead of waiting for a proper cue.

Posted by: Hebby at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (NUqwG)

157 Aren't these important enough for you?

Yes, he has ADHD. Yes, he's a jerk. Suck it up, buttercup - unless you want these 4 topics to fall to the Clintons.
Posted by: RobM1981 at July 21, 2016 04:26 PM (VVBN7)
_______________

Yep, that's where I am. Trump wasn't my first choice, or my second, or my third, but he's what we've got now. And as unappealing as he is on many levels, he's still better than that corrupt, incompetent, lying, pandering, law-breaking Hillary Clinton.

Also, I was somewhat bucked up to read Donald Jr.'s speech. He sounds like he might be an actual conservative, and since he has his father's ear, that can only be a good thing. A president Trump, if it happens, may actually end up surprising some people in a good way. But even if he doesn't, at least we know that if Trump is elected the MSM and the courts will suddenly discover a newfound respect for the constitution and a new abhorrence for executive overreach -- something that will never, ever happen if their dear Clinton is president.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (NnYnv)

158 AtC still gets to gambol about, I hope?

All well said, ace. I've been dealing with a couple of NeverTrumpers who live in this same fantasy land, and it really is infuriating.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (0mRoj)

159 "
Yes. Exactly.

Every single person who voted in the Republican primaries, and those who support him at the convention are obviously mouth breathing bible thumpers who are mentally retarded. They have never held a job, and are obviously all welfare queens and members of BLM. Each one of them also fully support climate change and didn't mean to vote for Trump, but did so because they're functional illiterates.
Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (tvyXw)

My favorite narrative, and some deranged woman one on twitter again told me this today after I opined that I didn't care much for Ted Cruz, but I'd have voted for him in Nov if he were the nominee. (she called me a liar). Is that the 13 or 17 million or however many of us who voted Trump in a primary or caucus were all democrat crossover votes in the most elaborate operation chaos style hoax ever devised.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (Uy8SG)

160 I had not been on Twitter for months.

Got back on it this morning to tweet support for Milo.

15 minutes was enough to cure me.

#NeverTwitter

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (/HC6x)

161 It's the declarations of facts about what is going to happen if Trump is elected, or what Trump will do when he is elected, because people just know. These people should be sharing their wealth from the lottery wins they've achieved as a result of their prescience. I'm sure it happens other places too, like Twitter and Facebook, but I rarely go to Twitter anymore and I pitched my Facebook account. But the omniscience that has descended on the anti-Trump people since he won, is a wonder. One would think that instead of ceaselessly dumping on Trump, they'd be thanking him. How people do take their gifts for granted.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (4ng05)

162 Hillary's pick is near.

Posted by: Gabby Johnson at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (IqV8l)

163
Maybe Trump will give a speech to an empty Hoveround.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (27m1/)

164 True Romance is a fucking awesome movie. So much fucking greatness in that movie. Walken/Hopper, Pitt, Gandolfini, Oldman, Kilmer, Sizemore - just a few performances that are short but great. I need to watch again.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (2gKX/)

165 Trump should have all sorts of buzz-stealing stuff ready to go.

Announce cabinet members, promises of indictments, policies, do interviews, run ads and pull stunts.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (g6yUI)
------------------
I'd place a wager at least on stunts.

Posted by: Hebby at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (NUqwG)

166 Posted by: Wyatt Earp




Someone said earlier you might be a Philly cop.
If so, how do you see the rank and file and the union voting?
Some thought they wouldn't go for Hillary due to the BLM rancor.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (3C84c)

167 8 It's great that the GOPe got blown up. It's too bad that he was the guy with the TNT. The choices suck donkey balls, but I cannot fathom what things will be like under Hillary. No effing way.

Posted by: Minnfidel

How does the GOP get blown up without someone like Trump. It least when he blows it up there'll be a wall and tax cuts.

Rubio and Jeb would have really blown it up by amnestying 50 million new democrat voters.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (QdAXQ)

168 Which is why I will vote for Trump.

I hope he wins.

The polls show he has a shot, and a lot depends on how he handles his acceptance speech tonight.

And I hope to spend 4 years complaining about ever stupid thing he says.

But make no mistake, I WILL be voting for him.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (wfDW1)

169 Hillary going full BLM actually makes me think it's not going to be a black person.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (bksJQ)

170 Posted by: Holly at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (u3niz)


ZOMG!!!! Holly is so right!!!

Posted by: Larry at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (8ZskC)

171 Hoping for the best, but fearing the worst.

I hope you and your guys stay safe, and if not necessarily safe, intimidating.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (evdj2)

172 Posted by: Holly at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (u3niz)

--------

Holly, why don't you cool it with the shouting. Shhhhhh...nobody cares.

Posted by: Seems Legit at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (U+nHb)

173 Maryland is always Democrat, so showing up is just an invitation for jury However, I'll show up anyway, hold my nose, and vote for Trump and pretend I'm just voting for Mike Pence.

Posted by: Wendy at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (bpemY)

174

It's only July.


Serenity Prayer


God give me the Serenity to accept things I cannot change

Courage to change the things I can

And the Wisdom to know the difference
Get

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (zOTsN)

175 164 True Romance is a fucking awesome movie. So much fucking greatness in that movie. Walken/Hopper, Pitt, Gandolfini, Oldman, Kilmer, Sizemore - just a few performances that are short but great. I need to watch again.
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 04:47 PM (2gKX/)


Dear friend of mine is in it. Plays Walken's Sicilian hit-man sidekick. He's also co-starring in "Vinyl" these days.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (27m1/)

176 "As for the pre-vote venting about Trump, you do have a point that that venting may be used to help Hillary. If I thought Trump would be any better, that might stop me from venting. I don't so it likely won't.
"

It's not venting, it's the agitating against Trump and all his supporters to such an extreme that democrat operatives paid to destroy him would blush

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (Uy8SG)

177 200 hundred quatloos on the lying white indian squaw.

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (qUNWi)

178 "it doesn't matter."

Anyone keeping score? Just how many "it doesn't matters" will it take to matter?

Oh I know. It doesn't matter.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Get ue newz from chan elenvty!! at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (WVsWD)

179 Any of you donated the max? Any of you signed up to volunteer? LOL.
Trump was DOA because his supporters are idiots who couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. But that's somehow on everyone else.
Posted by: DrewM Sucks at July 21, 2016 04:38 PM (ywZNz)


I'm sure you are right, but he did get more votes than all of the other GOP candidates.

What does that say about those candidates?

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (1JnAL)

180 Trump supporters will own the consequences of a Trump presidency -- and Hillary supporters, both those who declare it proudly and those who wish it secretly -- own the consequences of a Hillary presidency.

I guess some are just not passionate or invested in it as well.

When you live in the bubble, nothing effects you. At least if you think nothing is as bad as it really is, and you make your money off of just being on this team or that one (see Ariana Huffington), I guess you can just keep switching sides to profit, and not really care all that much. Callous, but possible.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (qCMvj)

181 Larry is right about Holly being right!

Posted by: Bob at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (evdj2)

182 By the same logic as your headline - you and all the other #neveranyotherrepublicans are responsible for Trump.

Posted by: Rob in Mass at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (W4B4W)

183 Someone said earlier you might be a Philly cop.
If so, how do you see the rank and file and the union voting?
Some thought they wouldn't go for Hillary due to the BLM rancor.


Yep, police detective in Philly. Our FOp almost always endorses Dems, and we almost always throw their endorsements in the trash can. They did, however, release a statement saying it's despicable to have the Gentle Giant's mother and other BLM moms speaking at the DNC. So there's that.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (bc7LP)

184 Elect the sick son of a bitch, then have a nice cathartic impeachment....it would be unifying and cleansing.

Posted by: Phil at July 21, 2016 04:49 PM (G1xDw)

185 150 I'm guessing is Castro since Barak had the injustice department give him a get out of jail free card.
_______________

Yeah, because Barry is a stickler for enforcing the law against his fellow crooked Dims. He was flying Hillary to campaign stops on AF-1 the other day.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (NnYnv)

186 Huh...how come I don't remember this movie??


Posted by: dananjcon at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (NpXoL)

187 Ace, thankfully, has crossed the political Rubicon.

We give thanks this day that he has done so.

Still, no more fucking eye surgery...ok, buddy?

Posted by: malignantly aggrieved and economically useless at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (3ZttN)

188 Serenity shmerenity. I wouldn't know what to do without my turmoil and anger.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (0mRoj)

189 Bob is right about Larry!

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (qUNWi)

190 Trump should have all sorts of buzz-stealing stuff ready to go.



Announce cabinet members, promises of indictments, policies, do interviews, run ads and pull stunts.
--
For some reason, I feel he's got lots of plans for next week....

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (tvyXw)

191
Pence really is the only reason for me to vote for Trump. I hope he's strong enough to be a positive influence.

And people poo-poo the VP job but it's the VP that is tasked with being the chief defender of the prexy.
No mean feat with a Trump in that position.

Please G-d.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (27m1/)

192 I hope you and your guys stay safe, and if not necessarily safe, intimidating.

Thanks much!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (bc7LP)

193 When I see or hear "Vilsak" my mind immediately goes "Ballsack."

I can't help it. Anyone else experience this?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (1ZOkK)

194 The #NeverTrumpers are filling their blogs, magazines, and Twitter
timelines with nonstop political advertising (free) against Trump, and
maintain, just because they say so and because it pleases them to think so, this does exactly nothing to help Hillary, and they are therefore not responsibe for her election.

Or let me put it this way: I am not hoping for Trump to get into
some serious international snafu by supporting him. Yet I know that is a
very real possibility if he's president.

Should this happen, I can't just say "But I didn't want trump to screw up so badly."

People would say -- no, but you knew the risks in supporting him, and
you supported him anyway; you are therefore morally responsible for
this.

Yet the #NeverTrumpers claim that the obvious, inescapable outcome of their position -- that Hillary Clinton will be the president -- is not their responsibility, just because they didn't intend that as a pirmary matter.

No, but they were completely aware it was the natural and inevitable consequence of their position.

Depending on where you are in the timeline, the #NeverTrump strategy was to set up a third party candidate who could not get to 270 electoral votes, but nevertheless act as a spoiler who would win enough electoral votes to kick the election to the GOP controlled House, who would then pick someone other than Trump (and not Hillary) as the ultimate victor of the election. That was the idea, grandly stated. #NeverTrump did not want Hillary, and there was, at one time, a (unlikely) path forward that they could pursue. I believe that the filing deadlines are all passing at this point to get an indy candidate on the ballot, and, in any event, no viable third party candidate emerged, so this plan seems dead.
Otherwise, people who have truly gone over to the #NeverTrump side may now objectively think that Hillary is the better choice between Hillary and Trump, because Trump represents the destruction of the ideological core of the GOP, replacing it with a kind of poorly-defined authoritarian nationalism. The intellectual and philosophical core of the party matters -- its from these perspectives that policies are conceived, drafted, and promulgated. Jettisoning the core irrevocably changes the party, to the point where a real #NeverTrump person may believe that suffering under 4 years of Hillary is worth "saving the party" from Trumpism. This person accepts (or should accept) the consequences of a Hillary presidency, preferring it to Trump.
Finally, there is the #NeverTrump voter who simply believes that Hillary and Trump are essentially equivalent evils. Unable to choose between two offsetting evils, this person may abstain from voting altogether (letting everyone else decide the election), or vote third party. I would disagree that abstaining from voting, or voting third party "is a vote or half vote for Hillary." Our country does not necessarily need to abide with a two-party framework. People choosing to break that mould may be laying the foundation for a wider jump into a system with several independent, nationally-viable parties. In any event, ultimate support for a third party candidate does not render a person morally responsible for the victor between the race between the Democrat and the Republican -- with that kind of thinking, no change to a third party system would ever be acceptable. Further, it reinforces what appears to be a spiral of bad behavior of candidates.

Treating elections as a binary choice only is currently leading one major party to nominate a felon, and the other to nominate a fraud. This is the path of idiocracy and it needs to be stopped.

Posted by: Revenant at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (3DSAh)

195 Does not voting for Trump increase the probability of Clinton signing the death warrant for this nation and its freedom? Of course. Does voting for Trump increase the probability of Trump signing the death warrant of this nation and its freedom? Yup.

We're fucked either way. At least by being #NeverTrump I don't have to play an active role in the death of something I care about deeply. And yes, it depresses me beyond measure that not playing an active role in this farce is all I can salvage out of this derelict ship of state.

Posted by: The Governor at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (Ib5sz)

196


Dammit. Hello, barrel.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (1ZOkK)

Posted by: Roger Ailes at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (XdbLA)

198 Hillary's pick is near.
---------------------------
Let it be Kaine.

Pence + Fence
Pain + Kaine

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (NUqwG)

199 Let's face it. We are all taking the Kobayashi Maru test. And failing. There is no Kirk solution. Get use to it.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (FtrY1)

200 Damn italics tag {/i}

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (bc7LP)

201 Clinton/Machiavelli '16!
Posted by: Peter Venkman at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (g6yUI)

Don't be ridiculous. I have scruples.

Posted by: Machiavelli at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (FohCt)

202 Heh. NOT ME!

To the barrel, Wyatt Earp.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (1ZOkK)

203 What do you say?

Posted by: Agent Cooper at July 21, 2016 04:43 PM (1zARK)

I say: Iceberg, Steinberg, Goldberg....they're all the same.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo...anti-Semite at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (k2fxD)

204 Wyatt Earp to the Barrel Corral.

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (qUNWi)

205 On the other hand, I have concluded voting for Trump means no Conservative ever gets nominated again, and that is infinitely worse than four years of Hillary. At least Republicans would know to oppose Hillary.



Like they have opposed Obama these last 8 years?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (3C84c)

206 Well, if you live in a state that Trump wins anyway, or had no chance of winning, the consequences of your choice are pretty much nil.

Posted by: gm at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (4ueYo)

207 A non vote IS a hillary vote, because somebody else will vote for the presumptive felon.

Math is hard.

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (QM5S2)

208 "But what I must insist you cannot do -- what i will not permit you to do -- is fantasize that while a Trump supporter is resonsible for the gaffes and disasters of a President Trump, you are somehow innocent of the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary."

Just as long as you remember that everyone who voted for Trump in the primaries are *also* responsible for the "purges and witchhunts" of Hillary, since they supported a candidate that we explicitly said we would never support many, many times.

Turns out, when we were burned by three GOPe candidates who didn't support limited government & constitutional principles (GWB, McCain, Romney) the part we cared about was the "didn't support limited government & constitutional principles" part, and not the "GOPe" part.

We swallowed our pride and voted for GWB, and got Medicaid Part D & the bank bailout for it. We thought we made it clear that "The Democrat is AWFUL!" wasn't enough to get our support when we withheld support for McCain & Romney. Now, when the only reason to vote for the GOP candidate is "The Democrat is AWFUL!", we are again withholding support. The only difference is that the candidate who doesn't support us comes from the grassroots instead of the GOPe.

Of course, there's no end to #NeverTrumpers who are themselves GOPe, but I'm pretty sure Ace is addressing this post to people who criticize Trump for ideological reasons, in addition to those who criticize him for political-career reasons. Granted, there's also no end to people who criticize him for ideological reasons, but utterly fail to make it clear why they're so critical...

tl;dr version: Trump's primary supporters are exactly as much to blame for Hillary's "purges and witchhunts" as Trump's current detractors.

Posted by: CayleyGraph at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (d10jJ)

209 >>By the same logic as your headline - you and all the other #neveranyotherrepublicans are responsible for Trump.


Posted by: Rob in Mass


New around here, huh?

Posted by: Lizzy at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (NOIQH)

210 Why is everything all italic-y?

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (3JA/M)

211 A Hillary presidency is the end of the American Republic.

Trump may be anywhere from a good president to as bad as Hillary.

Unless one believes that a Hillary presidency will collapse the system in a more advantageous way then Trump would, there is no plausible reason to support Hillary or oppose Trump.

And keep in mind the sort of collapse in question would involve some non-trivial amount of violence with no guarantee of a better society rising from it...

Posted by: 18-1 at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (X7E8f)

212 A non vote IS a hillary vote, because somebody else will vote for the presumptive felon.

Math is hard.



It's only half a vote, mathematically speaking.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (evdj2)

213 At least by being #NeverTrump I don't have to play an active role in the death of something I care about deeply.

Posted by: The Governor at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (Ib5sz)



You're a right proper saint, you are.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (8ZskC)

214 205 Wyatt Earp to the Barrel Corral.

I have brought shame to my family. *Commits Harry Carey.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (bc7LP)

215 A more accurate hashtag for this crew should be #SabotageTrump .

#NeverTrump ceased to have a point once Cruz and Kasich dropped out, ending the Primary race.

Posted by: Serious Cat at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (Uy6ri)

216 I seem to recall after '08, then '12 how so many here swore they would never again vote for "lesser of 2 evils."

And here we are again. It really is depressing as fuck.



There weren't two SC picks hanging in the balance then.
Complete game changer.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 04:52 PM (3C84c)

217 I still don't understand.

I am #NeverTrump AND I am #NeverHillary. I will not vote for either.

So what am I responsible for again?

Posted by: Al S at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (0tbQ4)

218 The problem with being in control, at least for a Republican, is that the media will hold you RESPONSIBLE for the results! I think an awful lot of the Establishment Republicans are perfectly happy to sit in congress under a Democrat president. They get paid a lot, people pretend they are important and they are not responsible. All they have to do is point out the problems and who to blame.

With Trump as president, the Establishment Republicans face a real problem, they would be both responsible and NOT in control. Trump will most likely NOT do what they tell him to do and yet the Republicans will be held Responsible for Trump's action.

Better to point out Hillary's mistakes than be held responsible for Trump's.

Posted by: JB1000 at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (16OL0)

219 190
Bob is right about Larry!

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (qUNWi)


And Larry is right about Holly!

The One Name People are in the house.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (1ZOkK)

220 Daryl is right about Daryl.

(both my brothers are really smart)

Posted by: Larry at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (H9MG5)

221 Hillary's pick is near.


What did he say?

Posted by: Olson Johnson at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (8ZskC)

222 Why is everything all italic-y?

C'mere ,me and my friends want ta have a little chat wid ya!

Posted by: Tony Bagadonatza at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (XdbLA)

223 >>>192 Pence really is the only reason for me to vote for Trump. I hope he's strong enough to be a positive influence.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (27m1/)>>>

Only reason I voted for McCain was Palin. I sure feel silly now!

Posted by: gm at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (4ueYo)

224 On the other hand, I have concluded voting for Trump means no Conservative ever gets nominated again, and that is infinitely worse than four years of Hillary. At least Republicans would know to oppose Hillary.
--

*dies laughing*

Posted by: @votermom at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (7lVbc)

225 I have brought shame to my family. *Commits Harry Carey.

Well that guy was a little coo coo.

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 04:53 PM (qUNWi)

226 Duty and obligation seek people out. Vote for Trump because you have to and get on with it.

Posted by: Patrick Henry at July 21, 2016 04:54 PM (cmmpQ)

227 At least by being #NeverTrump I don't have to play an active role in the death of something I care about deeply.

Posted by: The Governor

You're really Jeb Bush, aren't you?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 21, 2016 04:54 PM (UPYhp)

228 >>>the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary

I believe that these will happen under a President Hillary.

Posted by: m at July 21, 2016 04:54 PM (/7Lfc)

229 153

I was one of them. Having kids in the interim changed me. It's no longer just my future at stake. Let It Burn has, for me, hit the wall. The match is in my hand. Not sure whether to strike it by staying home, or do what my gut tells me and once again roll the dice in the booth and hope for the best. Do I feel guilty? Not sure. I got the girls to think of.

All that said, I fully expect Clinton Inc. to steal it, worst case scenario.

Best case scenario, Trump wins and hangs a hard left.

But at least I will have done what I thought was right, at the moment.

Posted by: doomed at July 21, 2016 04:54 PM (bGLSw)

230 The argument would have to be that Trump is worse for Conservatives and the country than Hillary. I'm willing to entertain the argument but it better be convincing.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 21, 2016 04:54 PM (evdj2)

231 Huh...how come I don't remember this movie??


Posted by: dananjcon at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (NpXoL)


me either

/shrug

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 04:54 PM (qCMvj)

232 So what you are saying is that Sophie was responsible for the death of her child.

I reject the "Sophies Choice" dilemma.

If it will be Hillary or Trump, the responsibility lays firmly upon the heads of those who foisted this upon us.

Posted by: TSgt Ciz at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (CRQ5V)

233 Just as long as you remember that everyone who voted for Trump in the
primaries are *also* responsible for the "purges and witchhunts" of
Hillary
***
I pointed out on this very blog that the 2012 election was the time to publicly refuse to vote for Romney - who clearly had no chance of winning anyway, and was himself a liberal technocrat (if a rational, competent one).

And yet most conservatives voted for Romney and the GOPe took it to mean they could do ANYTHING they wanted....which gave us...in the end Trump.




Posted by: 18-1 at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (X7E8f)

234 Kind of shitty to make the announcement during the other guys' convention tho.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (hqZPQ)


Her internal polling must be shitty, so she is trying to get the spotlight on her in a positive way because whoever she picks, the media will jizz in their pants over.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (1JnAL)

235 Komrades Klinton/Kaine


Posted by: Robert Byrd at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (hqZPQ)

236
Trump supporters will own the consequences of a Trump presidency -- and Hillary supporters, both those who declare it proudly and those who wish it secretly -- own the consequences of a Hillary presidency.
----------------------

I have this little fantasy where something awful happens (yeah) and one of my lefty ex-friends or relatives goes "HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?!?!?!" and I say "You wanted it to."

Posted by: iforgot at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (pC96u)

237 Locally, I'm voting again for Martina White for PA House. True conservative, and mega-dreamy.

http://bit.ly/29ZPQJq

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (bc7LP)

238 It's not venting, it's the agitating against Trump
and all his supporters to such an extreme that democrat operatives paid
to destroy him would blush

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at July 21, 2016 04:48 PM (Uy8SG)

Not to sound like Trump, but with some exceptions, it is the Trump people here that lob the first uncivil grenades. They cannot discuss any criticism of Trump without it devolving.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (3JA/M)

239 >>>Let it be Kaine.

Pence + Fence

Pain + Kaine

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 04:51 PM (NUqwG)<<<


Kaine and Disabled

Posted by: Larry at July 21, 2016 04:56 PM (H9MG5)

240
If it will be Hillary or Trump, the responsibility lays firmly upon the heads of those who foisted this upon us.
Posted by: TSgt Ciz at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (CRQ5V)
-----------------

Self-government. We let a few things go on too long.

Posted by: iforgot at July 21, 2016 04:56 PM (pC96u)

241 Ace is at his best when he is about to throw in the towel. I've followed Ace's twitter discussion on this. Glad to see Ace back on twitter. Never thought I'd say it, but Ace is the adult in the conversation. Persuasive stuff.

Posted by: USA at July 21, 2016 04:56 PM (tfM+W)

242 Huh...how come I don't remember this movie??


Tarantino film when he used to make good ones. Tony Scott directed.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:56 PM (bc7LP)

243 I'ma gonna ween!

[Cackles evilly while twirling mustache]

Posted by: Hillario at July 21, 2016 04:56 PM (VCs6s)

244 Churchill wasn't mad keen about Uncle Joe either, but he did what he had to do. There's always the possibility, admittedly slim, that Trump will actually turn out to be better than we expect. At this point, it's enough.

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 04:57 PM (LAe3v)

245 You are only responsible for that which you can control. You can control your vote. You cannot control other human beings

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 04:57 PM (zOTsN)

246 Erm. Wyatt Earp, that was a pretty quick trip in the barrel.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 04:57 PM (1ZOkK)

247 At least Shillary didn't pick Lieawatha.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:57 PM (bc7LP)

248 #neverTrumpism didn't make sense after Indiana and has failed miserably since. In Cleveland it added silliness and distraction. Wittingly or not, Cruz played into this.

There have been some good speakers at the convention, like Rudy, Sheriff Clarke, Newt and others whose messages have gotten lost because of MelaniaGate, Ted and to a lesser degree #neverTrumpism. We didn't discuss this much on this site and I wished we had.

Some people think Trump is unworthy, or not conservative enough for their own Private Idaho, or because he threatens their chance to feed at the government trough. OK, then.

But you lost. He's the nominee. Get on the bandwagon or stay home. Your choice. That's the way political parties, folks.

So I'm a fascist for saying this?

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 04:57 PM (r1fLd)

249 Ace, I forgive you for having gone on Twitter.

Posted by: Texas Zombie at July 21, 2016 04:57 PM (SUtNI)

250 185 Elect the sick son of a bitch, then have a nice cathartic impeachment....it would be unifying and cleansing.

Hmmm
The most appealing argument for voting Trump that I've heard.
We at least know we could get the Democrats on board with us...

Rethinking the future of a POTUS Pence...

Posted by: TSgt Ciz at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (CRQ5V)

251 Erm. Wyatt Earp, that was a pretty quick trip in the barrel.

It's not the time spent, it's how you use it!!!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (bc7LP)

252 Thing is, even if I had a crystal ball which revealed that the future President Trump was going to enact every policy which Clinton would have enacted, all the way down the line, I'd still find myself having to support, do GOTV, and vote for Trump, because...

_he's not personally a Clinton_.

That awful bunch of jumped-up grifters need to go away for good.

Posted by: torquewrench at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (noWW6)

253 >>>I pointed out on this very blog that the 2012 election was the time to publicly refuse to vote for Romney - who clearly had no chance of winning anyway, and was himself a liberal technocrat (if a rational, competent one).

Posted by: 18-1 at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (X7E8f)>>>

Now you get to vote for another liberal technocrat, but this time an irrational, incompetent one. Enjoy!

Posted by: gm at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (4ueYo)

254 #NeverHillary. Nuff said.

Posted by: Vodka 4 the win at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (6ZQK1)

255 I'm still undecided about voting for Trump because some of his politically self-destructive actions make me think he's a nut, and I loathed the way he's attacked other Republican candidates.

That said, I'm 100% confident that Hillary Clinton would pick reliable leftist hack judges and I'm at least 60% confident that Trump would pick moderately conservative judges.

Trump appears to have participated in a fraud with Trump University and he's legendary for disgracefully not paying bills from companies too small to sue him successfully. However, he's not yet betrayed the national security interests of the USA, and I'm pretty certain that Clinton did. Clinton may have left herself open to blackmail by any nation that intercepted her emails.

Trump lies frequently and almost randomly - much like a B.S. artist, always trying to advance his image. Clinton lies frequently and with great deliberation in order to achieve her goals regardless of the impact on the nation or its citizens. Her lies are bigger and more significant.

Clinton is smoother and has a better idea of how to behave as President, but what she'd do with the job is scary.

I don't blame anyone for thinking Trump is a bridge too far, but I can't understand anyone deliberately choosing to vote for Clinton.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (8048L)

256 Trump supporters will own the consequences of a Trump presidency....

Well, no. Not necessarily. Suppose that Trump isn't the extravangant failure you expect. If he's successful, rest assured, #NeverTrump will be populated with those extra half million people or so who were at Woodstock.

And if Hillary is Hillary, expect #NeverTrump to say "see what you did!"

Posted by: blaster at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (2Ocf1)

257 Wrong, Ace (and anyone else who will pull the Trump lever).

Here is the problem with your premise. I don't voice my opposition to Trump or to anyone. Ever. Nor do I ever tell anyone what to do with their vote. Ever. So a) I don't "owe" my vote to anyone and b) the GOP, and Trump for that matter, never "had" my vote to count on at all. If the nominee was Jeb!, the same would hold true.

Let me ask you a question. If Hillary is the President, will anyone here support her, consider her their president and embrace her positions? No? Why not? You owe it to her! What's that? You don't owe it to her? Well, well. Go figure. "But, but Trump is the lesser of two evils." Sorry, I don't vote for evil. Never have and never will.

"Well it's your fault if Hillary wins!" Actually, no. It's your fault. There are a half dozen "if" questions between selecting a candidate and actually pulling the trigger for the nominee. Trump didn't get past the first consideration, which would be along the lines of "Does he respect the constitution?"

PS - Trump is not a conservative. Heck, he isn't even a Republican. So go reconcile that as you pull the lever. And try to consider that knowledge when trying to condemn Cruz for not endorsing.

Posted by: Brian_AL at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (WxaK+)

258 131: Berlinski's issue is that she's lived outside the US for too long, and I doubt she ever had much exposure to middle America. Her "bubble" is probably thick as the hull on a nuclear sub. She REALLY does not get how much damage TFG has done. Mix that with the circles she travels in and one can imagine the last year was a shock to her. She is UTTERLY out of the loop. TBH, I didn't even know she was form the US until recently. Her writings on Europe and Turkey are one of the reasons I still buzz by Ricochet, however. Peter's a nice guy who should stick to interviewing conservative luminaries.

Posted by: Jackal at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (Lyh9/)

259 I was a Cruz supporter until last night, where- among several choices he could have made- he picked the worst one. I'm still not a Trump fan, but it seems to me that if you are not a Trump supporter, but believe Hillary will be the final straw for this distressed America, then just shut up. Keep your mouth closed. You don't have to support Trump, but for goodness' sake, stop helping Hillary.

Posted by: TomS. at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (9/QQm)

260 Pulling the lever for the Orange Squirrel even though I live in California. A generous popular vote margin helps legitimize a close electoral victory.

There is really no point in a protest vote, except to placate your own ego, which is kind of childish.

Love thy neighbor, even the libs. Let your heart be guided by love. Get outside more.

Posted by: Max Power at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (q177U)

261 Otherwise, people who have truly gone over to the #NeverTrump side may now objectively think that Hillary is the better choice between Hillary and Trump, because Trump represents the destruction of the ideological core of the GOP, replacing it with a kind of poorly-defined authoritarian nationalism.

Posted by: Revenant


Bush killed the party. No sense spending 90 paragraphs on this shitshow.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (VY8H5)

262 Not voting sends a message too.

If there are 100 voters in an organization, it matters if all 100 vote or not. A 10-0 vote may yield the same ultimate result as a 51-49 vote. But the message, mandate, whatever you want to call it are different. A person who wins with only 10 votes may not be able to wield the same hand as someone who barely wins, but won with a clear majority of the entire organization.

A low turnout election sends a message.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (gmeXX)

263 254 #NeverHillary. Nuff said.

-----

Yep.

Posted by: Sane Person at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (Ht/4p)

264 "Hillary's pick is near. "

Still hasn't pulled out of her nose yet?

It's disgusting but you just can't tear yourself away from the teevee.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Get ur newz from chan elenvty!! at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (WVsWD)

265 251
Erm. Wyatt Earp, that was a pretty quick trip in the barrel.



It's not the time spent, it's how you use it!!!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (bc7LP)


*glares*

*sends up flare to AtC to please be summoning the Ravage*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (1ZOkK)

266 How did I miss 250 posts just hanging out in the other newish thread?


(i) True Romance is awesome and even though I'm a Tarantino fanboi it was better for not being directed by him.

(b) Fine whatever if you're in a swing state and you don't vote for Trump you're electing Hillary. But it's you people's fault.

All of you oh we need the wall and he'll evict all the illegals and then let them back in one at a time if they're the good ones. You made it all about immigration and he's stupid about immigration and you disqualified everyone else.

I reserve the right to hold a grudge and blame you until the first week of November because we had 16 better options and you did this.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (1xUj/)

267 I still don't understand.

I am #NeverTrump AND I am #NeverHillary. I will not vote for either.

So what am I responsible for again?
...
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And that is the problem.

Posted by: ajmojo at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (1H9ox)

268 When I buy a supersize hamburger meal I do so to feed myself. I am not morally responsible for the hungry homeless guy I pass on the way and don't give money to. I am not morally responsible for the starving kids in Africa.

I am voting for Gary Johnson and will be able to honestly say from Jan 2017 to Jan 2021 things would be much better if more people had done the same instead of sticking to the turd sandwich or giant douche choices.

Posted by: justaguy at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (UnMRd)

269 If it will be Hillary or Trump, the responsibility lays firmly upon the heads of those who foisted this upon us.

Posted by: TSgt Ciz at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (CRQ5V)

This is true for our personal votes (and I am right there with you on that). Ace is right though about the venting... maybe we need to make sure that we give the same number of inches of critical writing to Hillary as we do to Trump?

Hmmmm...

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (3JA/M)

270 Very well, and depressingly, put.

I am on record as stating that I reject the notion that votes are owed and not earned. Thus, if Trump cannot earn your vote, that is fine. If Hillary cannot earn your vote, the same.

I also find the notion that refusing to vote for one is an automatic vote for the other to not follow logically because it is based on the voted owed premise.

Let us say that I, personally, do not vote. Now, how is my non-vote to be counted, as a vote for Hillary since I as a conservative "should" vote for Trump or a vote for Trump since I, as a mammarially gifted human being, "should" vote for Hillary? In which column does my non-vote belong? By the premises of the position, my non-vote annihilates itself.

But. It's me, there's always a but, but I accept that should I not vote I am making an active decision to remove myself from participation in the political process and, frankly, the consequence of either person winning thus fall on me. After all, my non-vote does, of necessity, carry with it the consequence of accepting that either of those running will be elected. And thus I become responsible for either outcome.

It is slightly different should I vote for say the Green Party or the Libertarian Party since I am still participating in the political process though it does have somewhat of the same practical effect of either person winning. I would still have to accept that my protest vote is that, a protest, and the realistic outcome is that one of those two will be elected. I would bear the consequences of that.

Look, I get wishing to avoid responsibility. I get that on the cellular level. But being an adult is opening your eyes and seeing, truly seeing, that there are consequences to every action and inaction. Denying that reality does not make the reality go away.

Dammit.

*searches about*

Here. I hope this suffices for a teal deer apology:

http://bit.ly/1fV7Jqs

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (mf5HN)

271 I'm voting for Trump because of Hillary Clinton. I will not bad mouth him because that's just stupid, because I don't want to egg on the fence sitters doubts.

Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (d6TTt)

272 I supported Cruz from the beginning, but Trump had my vote after Cruz dropped out. He still has my vote. Now we need to stop hammering each others tit and concentrate on keeping the dems from STEALING this election.

Posted by: Eromero at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (zLDYs)

273 Plus if you don't vote, your Right to Bitch card is revoked.

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (QM5S2)

274 Churchill wasn't mad keen about Uncle Joe either, but he did what he had to do. There's always the possibility, admittedly slim, that Trump will actually turn out to be better than we expect. At this point, it's enough.
Posted by: pep

"If Hitler invaded hell, I would at least make a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."
Sir Winston Churchill

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 21, 2016 05:00 PM (UPYhp)

275 First, any "True Romance" reference goes a long way to persuading me.

What I can't understand is the NeverTrumpers that think Trump is going to bull his way into some major international incident, why don't they think Clinton would get into one in a much worse way? I get that Trump is hot headed, but do they honestly think her incompetence and endless shady scams won't cause problems? She considers herself a queen accountable to no one, what do these naive people think will happen when she has even more power?

Posted by: UGAdawg at July 21, 2016 05:00 PM (HL3BI)

276 >>And yet most conservatives voted for Romney and the GOPe took it to mean they could do ANYTHING they wanted....which gave us...in the end Trump.


That is some seriously tortured logic.

The reason we have Trump is because for the last 50 years liberal have been marching through institution like education and the arts and have proceeded to create a society of mostly ignorant, self-absorbed, greedy idiots. Regardless of what people say, most don't give a shit about issues and won't do any research on candidates themselves, they wait for the teevee geniuses like Van Jones to tell them what to think.

We as a society are getting exactly what we deserve with Trump vs. Hillary. No point in blaming anyone else.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 05:00 PM (/tuJf)

277 What about the consequences of posting on the vile, bigoted, censoring, leftist platform known as Twitter?

Posted by: gm at July 21, 2016 05:00 PM (4ueYo)

278 That awful bunch of jumped-up grifters need to go away for good.


Posted by: torquewrench


It can be arranged.

Posted by: Thomas Fookin' Shel-beh at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (LAe3v)

279 Personally I don't get Gary Johnson. Weed + Nanny state and let ISIS gambol and frolic. But whatever.

Posted by: @votermom at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (7lVbc)

280 The other thing I would say is, maybe this is just part of the negotiation. Trump says he is going to have Mexico pay for the wall. No one really believes that, but it is his opening starting point. If all these conservative voices say they will vote for Trump anyway because he is better than Hillary, then why should Trump try to be conservative at all.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (gmeXX)

281 My son has never registered to vote. This, in spite of me bringing him the form and a stamped envelope. All he had to do was fill out the form.

Occasionally, he wants to talk politics, or bitch about some dumbass policy. I cut him off every time, saying he doesn't have a single fucking thing to complain about. He has chosen the silence of his vote; he literally doesn't matter.

Informed voting is one of the few inescapable parts of being a responsible US citizen.

Rush -- Freewill

If you choose not to decide

You still have made a choice

Posted by: GnuBreed at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (gyKtp)

282 I am too tired to ask people to "bite moi." All bitten out.

Politics are exhausting.

Ace, I think you need to break from twitter. Or talk about boobs and offend people that don't have perky ones? That seems more fun and might give you a break.

Or talk about Keef again and his loud nostrils?

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (kBYYb)

283 239
Kaine and Disabled
Posted by: Larry at July 21, 2016 04:56 PM (H9MG5)


Threadwinner worthy.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (27m1/)

284 I remember plenty of people criticizing Romney for Romneycare.

this happens every election.

Its just there are more pundits in critic mode and honestly, Trump does provide ammo.

Posted by: Sexypig at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (UBBWX)

285 "I am voting for Gary Johnson and will be able to honestly say from Jan
2017 to Jan 2021 things would be much better if more people had done the
same instead of sticking to the turd sandwich or giant douche choices."

You must really tear it up in Vegas........

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (QM5S2)

286

Either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will be president in November January.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 21, 2016 05:02 PM (IqV8l)

287 Let me ask you a question. If Hillary is the President, will anyone here support her, consider her their president and embrace her positions? No? Why not? You owe it to her! What's that? You don't owe it to her? Well, well. Go figure. "But, but Trump is the lesser of two evils." Sorry, I don't vote for evil. Never have and never will.

Posted by: Brian_AL at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (WxaK+)



I think we're all indebted to Brian_AL for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic electoral gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.

Posted by: Olson Johnson at July 21, 2016 05:02 PM (8ZskC)

288 I'm just going to leave this here:

The very sexy Morgan James singing Dream On for Post Modern Jukebox.

https://youtu.be/Yq4KA0mUnC8

Posted by: buzzion at July 21, 2016 05:02 PM (z/Ubi)

289 Millions of people fought and died for this country. All you have to do this November is stand in a booth and fill in a ballot. No one is asking you to make any type of sacrifice either great or small other than the negligible amount of time it will take to prevent a woman as mendacious, deceitful, perfidious, corrupt, and treasonous as Hillary Clinton from becoming Commander-In-Chief.

Posted by: Jess at July 21, 2016 05:02 PM (gIBdS)

290 Any single vote is so enormously diluted in power that I don't believe any citizen is "morally responsible" for the actions of another person merely by virtue of having cast their vote for that person. Likewise, with a very few exceptions, no individual on social media is so powerful that his support or scorn towards any candidate makes him morally responsible for the winner's actions in office.

Ace's remarks on Twitter seem to be focused more on conservative media institutions, NR/RS/TWS/etc. That's a quite different argument from holding Joe Sixpack responsible for the election or actions of Trump or Clinton. But even as regards the magazines, Trump himself keeps insisting over and over that those publications have no power, so you'd be giving them MUCH more credit than Trump does to say that they have any responsibility for Hillary's victory.

Posted by: cjw at July 21, 2016 05:02 PM (onydf)

291 Or talk about Keef again and his loud nostrils?
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (kBYYb)



I second this motion.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:02 PM (mf5HN)

292 Cliff Notes: #NeverTrumpers are dishonest and know it when they say their attacks on Teh Donald don't help the drunken RICO-inclined crone.

Posted by: oddnot does fret and with reason at July 21, 2016 05:02 PM (g1MTt)

293 Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (mf5HN)


Would you please release the Ravage on Wyatt Earp, who spent less than a nano second in the barrel? And he was smug about it.


Thank you in advance. *shoves blueberry bars through USB port*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (1ZOkK)

294 Shouldn't we all be able to at least come together and have a long moment of silence when Ivanka speaks. I even told the wife that there must be absolute silence.

Posted by: Drider at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (6Xbsz)

295 I was a Cruz supporter until last night, where- among several choices he could have made- he picked the worst one. I'm still not a Trump fan, but it seems to me that if you are not a Trump supporter, but believe Hillary will be the final straw for this distressed America, then just shut up. Keep your mouth closed. You don't have to support Trump, but for goodness' sake, stop helping Hillary.

I thought Cruz's speech was a great way of attacking Hillary, and a great way of promoting conservative chances--and Trump's chances--in November.

I really thought it was a great speech, and really did not see it as an attack on Trump, and didn't know it could be construed as one until this morning when Trump supporters starting explaining the secret code words he used.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (2lndx)

296 Either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will be president in November January.

----------

I'm still hoping for enough faithless electors to throw this to the states.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (gmeXX)

297 We can Unit around the total corruption of the media/academic/government complex

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (zOTsN)

298 The evil of two lessers.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (IqV8l)

299 breaking news:

roger ailes resigns.

taylor swift wikipedia page was hacked.

irving berlin still the greatest songwriter in history.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (WTSFk)

300 I, as a mammarially gifted human being
...
Is that "gifted" as in, has mammaries or "gifted" as in, has stupendous mammaries?

Either way, go on...

Posted by: ajmojo at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (1H9ox)

301 A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for your best freind, neither is going to win though.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (bksJQ)

302 I want Trump to win so I can bash his presidency on this blog. That seems the best of both worlds.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (2PHKP)

303 >>>279 Personally I don't get Gary Johnson. Weed + Nanny state and let ISIS gambol and frolic. But whatever.
Posted by: @votermom at July 21, 2016 05:01 PM (7lVbc)>>>

He's worse than Trump or Clinton.

Posted by: gm at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (4ueYo)

304 And this is pretty much what Cruz was saying last night. He listed all the ways that Hillary was awful. He said "vote your conscience", rather than outright endorsing the nominee-shaped piece of orange shit (tm AoS), because he's a proud man, and a man of principle above all else. But it was clear to any reasonable person that his entire speech implied that any constitutionalist conservative would be left voting for Trump, if he voted his conscience.

Funny, everyone was screaming for an iconoclast who would stand up to the establishment, show balls, and not be the sort of quisling that Ryan is. One shows up, and you shit on him because he doesn't kneel before the new establishment, Trump.

And: All of the screaming and whining over the anodyne statement "vote your conscience" reminds me of BLM screaming when someone says "all lives matter."

Posted by: Pastafarian at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (LqrRo)

305 66
I think Trump supporters are at least equally on the hook for a Hillary presidency. They, after all, are responsible for this Sophie's choice that we all now face between Trump and HRC.

#nevertrumpers were clear during the primaries that they would, well, never vote for Trump. So the Trumpsters knew before voting for him that he couldn't get the votes of a significant portion of the R party, making and HRC victory that much more likely.....
Posted by: ScottC at July 21, 2016 04:35 PM (iBCbx)
------------------------------------------
I happen to agree with you --- but so what?
Casting blame for the unpalatable choice does nothing to help me or anyone else decide what to do NOW.
I am not relieved from voting my conscience (heh) just because a pack of fools nominated a jerk.

I have to choose between the two. Period. My conscience tells me that I cannot pass the buck, much less get distracted by anger over having such a tough choice.

I choose Trump because (1) there is a good chance his SCOTUS appointments will be far better than Hillary's, (2) the media and Congress will watch him 24/7, and (3) she has a LONG history of paranoia, corruption, misuse of power, mendacity, and viciousness.





Posted by: Margarita DeVille at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (T/5A0)

306 *noms blueberry bars*

RAVAGE AHOY!

Wyatt, be sure to try to flee, they need some exercise.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (mf5HN)

307 Revealed - why Hillary has been coughing so much lately: http://9gag.com/gag/a9YpmnZ

Posted by: peacelovewoodstock at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (q+fVz)

308 In which column does my non-vote belong? By the premises of the position, my non-vote annihilates itself.
--

Dem column always gets the non-votes and the dead votes and the double votes.
Its the Chicago Way.

Posted by: @votermom at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (7lVbc)

309 Is Hillary going to announce her pick to steal thunder from Trump or a different version of a Friday news dump?

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (bksJQ)

310 "Personally I don't get Gary Johnson. Weed + Nanny state and let ISIS gambol and frolic. But whatever."

He's going after Hillary voters and Bernie voters. This is a good thing for Trump.

Finally, Trump won't touch ISIS anymore than Obama. Trump goes back and forth on intervention, non-intervention, let the Russians do it, etc.

Now he's considering getting out of NATO.

I think he's pretty isolationist.

that means ISIS gets to gambol around, and maybe you ban immigrants.

Posted by: Sexypig at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (UBBWX)

311 299
irving berlin still the greatest songwriter in history.
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (WTSFk)

Did he write "Heartbeat, It's a Love-beat?" No. So that explodes that myth.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (27m1/)

312 I seem to recall after '08, then '12 how so many here swore they would never again vote for "lesser of 2 evils."

And here we are again. It really is depressing as fuck.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:46 PM (27m1/)

After '08 and '12 and the immediate forced sodomy committed by the guys we put in charge of congress, I swore I would never vote again for anyone based only on their party. Then, all I wanted to do was see the party that continued to ass rape me brought down.

The big thing here during that period was 'let it burn'. If Trump turns out to be who the anti-Trump people know he is, that's still likely to happen. As is the case if Hillary is elected. But if Trump wins and governs with even a wit of self interest and even if enough damage has already been done that it happens anyway, it will not be because of anything he did to cause it.

If (and I know the effect this statement will have on the anti-Trump folks) he actually does mean what he says, and he does actually want to be the one to save the country, we could actually make out pretty well. And so could our children.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:06 PM (4ng05)

313 breaking news:

roger ailes resigns.

taylor swift wikipedia page was hacked.

irving berlin still the greatest songwriter in history.
Posted by: musical jolly chimp

But what about Generalissimo Franco? Is he still dead?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 21, 2016 05:06 PM (UPYhp)

314 306
*noms blueberry bars*



RAVAGE AHOY!



Wyatt, be sure to try to flee, they need some exercise.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (mf5HN)


Thank you. I'll round them up when they're...........finished.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:06 PM (1ZOkK)

315 "I thought Cruz's speech was a great way of attacking Hillary, and a great way of promoting conservative chances--and Trump's chances--in November."

Stephen in all honesty. It is not lost on anyone that the term "vote your conscience" has been a #Nevertrump term that most, correctly might I add or at least IMHO see as a direct avenue Hillary support.

The term destroyed an otherwise good speech for that simple reason.

Posted by: Drider at July 21, 2016 05:06 PM (6Xbsz)

316 Pence really is the only reason for me to vote for Trump. I hope he's strong enough to be a positive influence.



Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 04:50 PM (27m1/)>>>

The guy who advanced medicaid expansion and gutted Indiana's RFRA? Good luck with that.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:06 PM (3JA/M)

317 Not gonna lie, it took the FBI letting Hillary skate on her illegal email server and mishandling of classified documents to bring me to the same conclusion, but here I am. I was never #NeverTrump, but I had vowed not to vote for either Trump or Hillary, and refused to acknowledge the fact that not voting for Trump was helping Hillary. The sad reality is that there is no viable 3rd option: it's Trump or Hillary, and I can not pro-actively do something that would help Hillary. Not voting for Trump helps Hillary. It's that simple.

Posted by: holygoat at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (DbBV5)

318
As an aside, 2 vermont delagates to the DNC were replaced because they were men and messed up the "gender balance".

Hahaha, welcome to your petty leftist world where your achievements or talents mean nothing.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (ODxAs)

319 "I choose Trump because (1) there is a good chance his SCOTUS appointments will be far better than Hillary's, (2) the media and Congress will watch him 24/7, and (3) she has a LONG history of paranoia, corruption, misuse of power, mendacity, and viciousness."

Sound so reasonable until Trump opens his mouth about the Baltic states or whatever.

Posted by: Sexypig at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (UBBWX)

320 311
299

irving berlin still the greatest songwriter in history.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at July 21, 2016 05:03 PM (WTSFk)



Did he write "Heartbeat, It's a Love-beat?" No. So that explodes that myth.





Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:05 PM (27m1/)

He didn't write Heartbeat for Don Johnson either. Equally disqualified, as that is pure gold, Jerry!

Posted by: AlaBAMA at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (2PHKP)

321 If my choice is either Trump or Clinton then I'll proudly vote for the former and my conscience will be clear.

Posted by: Jess at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (gIBdS)

322 I still don't understand.



I am #NeverTrump AND I am #NeverHillary. I will not vote for either.



So what am I responsible for again?

Posted by: Al


Hillary, if your posting here.

Posted by: Dr Spank at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (4e+hS)

323 Either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will be president in November January.
...
Well, not necessarily. There is still the martial law option whereby Obama doesn't leave.
There is also the open revolt option whereby, after a bloody and protracted war, some insurance agent from Des Moines becomes the Imperial Governor of the Free States. Not sure if that happens by January though.

Posted by: ajmojo at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (1H9ox)

324 >>A low turnout election sends a message.

Who are you sending this message to?
Do you really think the GOP gives a crap about low turnout? Most of them are #NeverTrump, too. Heck, by losing the POTUS it gives them a reason to fund raise and give us more failure theater.



Posted by: Lizzy at July 21, 2016 05:08 PM (NOIQH)

325 "I have concluded voting for Trump means no Conservative ever gets nominated again..."

Du fuq you talking about? When's the last time a conservative was the Republican nominee? If Trump loses, you think the establishment is going to be what loses power?

The establishment will blame grassroots radicals and crack down even more, ensuring only moderate establishment types have the backing to rise to power.

I don't know what will happen if Trump is elected...no one does...but he's your best shot at shaking things up and dislodging the current power structure.

Posted by: Grimaldi at July 21, 2016 05:08 PM (oTcMf)

326 304 Posted by: Pastafarian at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (LqrRo)


I find it rather amusing that it was absolutely vital for Mr. Trump to get an endorsement from a man who he called a liar every hour on the hour for months.

You'd think if that were the case he wouldn't want that endorsement.

Meh. What does it all matter anyway?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:08 PM (27m1/)

327 >>>259 You don't have to support Trump, but for goodness' sake, stop helping Hillary.

Posted by: TomS. at July 21, 2016 04:58 PM (9/QQm)>>>

It could have only have been argued to help Hillary if you think Trump is not a conservative and you think voting for Trump is unconscionable. But, now the Trump delegates tipped their hand in exposing that is, evidently, what they actually think.

Posted by: gm at July 21, 2016 05:08 PM (4ueYo)

328 The cool this about this election is I get to vote for someone I fucking loathe.

That's a first.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (2PHKP)

329 So what am I responsible for again?
...
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And that is the problem.
Posted by: ajmojo at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (1H9ox)

You'll make a killing going through life like that.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (4ng05)

330 Is that "gifted" as in, has mammaries or "gifted" as in, has stupendous mammaries?

Either way, go on...
Posted by: ajmojo at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (1H9ox)


There's a reason it's referred to as The Rack.

Sadly, I have the corollary ass to go with it but these things happen.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (mf5HN)

331

Pretty sure none of us know the future

Who predicted this a year ago

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (zOTsN)

332 I was hoping Megyn Kelly would pose this same question last night, until I saw her in that sexy little black negligee. Then all I could think about was 'I wonder if she pinched her nipples to get them to stand out more in that sexy little black negligee.'

Posted by: Fritz at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (vXmOS)

333 There is also the open revolt option whereby, after a bloody and protracted war, some insurance agent from Des Moines becomes the Imperial Governor of the Free States.


Jake, the Sith Lord from State Farm, will no longer wear khakis.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (8ZskC)

334 Is that "gifted" as in, has mammaries or "gifted" as in, has stupendous mammaries?

I might know something about this.

It's #2.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (1xUj/)

335 320
He didn't write Heartbeat for Don Johnson either. Equally disqualified, as that is pure gold, Jerry!
Posted by: AlaBAMA at July 21, 2016 05:07 PM (2PHKP)

Personally, it's a tossup between Berlin, Johnny Mercer and Cole Porter.

Berlin does have the edge with "White Christmas."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (27m1/)

336 I still don't understand.



I am #NeverTrump AND I am #NeverHillary. I will not vote for either.



So what am I responsible for again?

Posted by: Al

Your not responsible for either and nothing. Enjoy your welfare check and Nintendo.

Posted by: Drider at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (6Xbsz)

337 Amen brother. I agree 100%.

Posted by: Czar Peter at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (PFoqq)

338 It is not lost on anyone that the term "vote your conscience" has been a #Nevertrump term that most, correctly might I add or at least IMHO see as a direct avenue Hillary support.

Like I said upthread, I read the Weekly Standard, which has become a NeverTrump stronghold, unfortunately. I'm not saying the term has never shown up there, but I don't recall reading it there.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (2lndx)

339 Who are you sending this message to?
Do you really think the GOP gives a crap about low turnout? Most of them are #NeverTrump, too. Heck, by losing the POTUS it gives them a reason to fund raise and give us more failure theater.

---------------

No I don't think they would necessarily care, but it does matter. There is a reason people keep saying Trump won the most GOP primary votes ever. It sounds a lot better than saying he won the fewest.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (gmeXX)

340 Stupid rain.

I'll say this. TWITTER KILLED THE WALKING DEAD.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (Od14x)

341

While we hash all of this stuff out for months and months, who is keeping track of what TFG and his dangerous crew are doing to continue to destroy the nation stealth-like before he is gone, gone, gone??

Who's watching them?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (qCMvj)

342 >>>> But what I must insist you cannot do -- what i will not permit you to do -- is fantasize that while a Trump supporter is resonsible for the gaffes and disasters of a President Trump, you are somehow innocent of the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary.
------
See. I disagree with you on this. I think you should permit them to entertain this fantasy. It's not worth the aggravation and frustration. It also seems to be ruining friendships and relationships for some people.

Posted by: L, Elle at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (6IPEM)

343
330 Is that "gifted" as in, has mammaries or "gifted" as in, has stupendous mammaries?

Either way, go on...
Posted by: ajmojo at July 21, 2016 05:04 PM (1H9ox)

There's a reason it's referred to as The Rack.

Sadly, I have the corollary ass to go with it but these things happen.
Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:09 PM (mf5HN)


*perks up*

Posted by: Sir Mix-a-lot at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (s6cyD)

344 Continued from yesterday, Dana Perrino is getting to be a real pain in the ass.
And Juan William's is just a tool.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (sxOdv)

345 >>>
But, yeah, when you feel the walls closing in, take some time off.

I know this is what you need, because I'm pretty sure that you and I are just about the same kind of person deep down inside, where it counts.

So, join me at the bar.

First round is on me!

Oh, and Rupert Murdoch sucks donkey balls.




Posted by: Roger Ailes


...

i wouldn't mind if you told me which gals won't blab if I grope 'em.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (dciA+)

346 >>I have concluded voting for Trump means no Conservative ever gets nominated again...

I have concluded that the word conservative has lost all meaning. Everyone has their own definition of who is and who isn't a conservative.

Meaningless term.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (/tuJf)

347
Thing of it is, once Tia Borracha opens her pie-hole and shrieks that shrill, annoying, hectoring foghorn at everyone, all of this will seem to melt away.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (27m1/)

348 Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 04:59 PM (mf5HN)


Hey, weirdo. Make with the podcast already.

No need to do 50-hour versions. Just do like 45min ... * Ponders *

Doesn't Snapchat have a podcast/aggregate feature?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (VY8H5)

349
why don't they think Clinton would get into one in a much worse way?


Shit any foreign intelligence agency worth its salt has everythingit needs to black mail Clinton and turn her into its patsy

Posted by: Jane Mansfield at July 21, 2016 05:12 PM (lKyWE)

350 Baltic states, what are they good for ? Absolutely nothing

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 05:12 PM (c6/9Q)

351 I was #NeverTrump. In many ways, I'm still #NeverTrump. I think he will be awful in so many ways. Indeed, has already been awful, in the way that he has split the conservative movement and destroyed the Republican Party as a vehicle for conservatism. Since I live in Texas (and because the probability of my vote determining anything approaches zero), I will probably vote for Gary Johnson or a write in. But between the two viable candidates, Trump or Clinton, I want Trump to win.

Trump will appoint better judges and justices. He will appoint better bureaucrats. He will sign better legislation, and veto worse.

Ergo, I hope Trump wins. I hope Hillary loses. God help me, and have mercy on our souls.

D.GOOCH

Posted by: GOOCH at July 21, 2016 05:12 PM (cxLzw)

352 Wyatt Earp,

Watch out for the "blue flue" amongst the officers assigned to protect the Dem convention from the street friekorps the dems themselves created.

It'd be sad if a petard or two was hoisted

Posted by: Grad School Fool at July 21, 2016 05:12 PM (swEzU)

353 341

While we hash all of this stuff out for months and months, who is keeping track of what TFG and his dangerous crew are doing to continue to destroy the nation stealth-like before he is gone, gone, gone??

Who's watching them?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (qCMvj)

No one. And even if he were watched, no one would do a fucking thing to stop him.

And that's McConnell and Ryan right there.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:12 PM (27m1/)

354 By the same logic as your headline - you and all the other #neveranyotherrepublicans are responsible for Trump.

You went full retard. Never go full retard.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:12 PM (0mRoj)

355 "I was hoping Megyn Kelly would pose this same question last night, until
I saw her in that sexy little black negligee. Then all I could think
about was 'I wonder if she pinched her nipples to get them to stand out
more in that sexy little black negligee.'"

Oh, of course. That classic trick perfected by John Chancellor back in his convention-coverage days.

Posted by: torquewrench at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (noWW6)

356 the only #nevertrumpers I know are dems or GOPe leadership, even Cruz said today he's not voting for Clinton

#nevertrumpers in the GOP hate Cruz more than Trump. I only dislike Trump because he's an east coast liberal but he's still better than Hillary. I hope.

Posted by: DanMan at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (RusNE)

357 I have concluded voting for Trump means no Conservative ever gets nominated again...


Pardon me while I survey the impressive results of voting "conservative" over the past 40 years...

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (8ZskC)

358 Shit any foreign intelligence agency worth its salt has everythingit needs to black mail Clinton and turn her into its patsy
Posted by: Jane Mansfield

You say that like she needs goading to betray American interests.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (UPYhp)

359 There's a reason it's referred to as The Rack.

Sadly, I have the corollary ass to go with it but these things happen.
...
Balance should not be looked upon with anything but admiration.

Posted by: ajmojo at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (1H9ox)

360 1. Tony Scott makes some great dood movies. He is a safe go-to director for me. (Coens are 50-50 and sometimes a gamble.)

2. Ok, "mammarially gifted" needs to be expounded upon.

3.14 Pi

4. More discussion of Stranger Things plus screencaps, the addresses of stars, phone numbers, what day is garbage day, etc.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (2gKX/)

361 345 >>>
But, yeah, when you feel the walls closing in, take some time off.

I know this is what you need, because I'm pretty sure that you and I are just about the same kind of person deep down inside, where it counts.

So, join me at the bar.

First round is on me!

Oh, and Rupert Murdoch sucks donkey balls.




Posted by: Roger Ailes


...

i wouldn't mind if you told me which gals won't blab if I grope 'em.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (dciA+)


I think you can cross two off your list for certain.

Posted by: Buzzion at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (s6cyD)

362 Personally, it's a tossup between Berlin, Johnny Mercer and Cole Porter.



Berlin does have the edge with "White Christmas."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (27m1/)

Porter for me. But shoutout to George Weiss for What a Wonderful World (Louis Armstrong)

Posted by: AlaBAMA at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (2PHKP)

363 Tia Borracha...that's good.

The frequency of her voice resonates with my amygdala.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (hqZPQ)

364 "If you think Hillary would be a better president -- or if Trump is so repulsive to you you cannot support him even if you think Hillary would be worse -- fine. I respect your opinion."

Exactly. Well put. As I respect the opinion of those who think voting Trump is not too high a price to pay to avoid Clinton.

And yes, for both choices, those who make them are responsible for the outcome.

Posted by: chris not rock at July 21, 2016 05:14 PM (85X6y)

365
I cant stand Kanye/Kardashians. That actress Chloe Moeretz commented that Kim K shd wear more clothes and they have been going after her, too. Khloe posted a photo of a woman she thought was the 19 y/o who had a swimsuit malfuction. It wasnt her and was done to embarrass her. This by a 34 y/o woman to a 19 y/o woman.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 05:14 PM (iQIUe)

366 Vote your conscience is clearly nevertrump.

Let's take a look at the permutations of that to see what the meaning is.

Is voting against your conscience pro-Trump? Why?

Posted by: Kindltot at July 21, 2016 05:14 PM (ry34m)

367 Continued from yesterday, Dana Perrino is getting to be a real pain in the ass.
And Juan William's is just a tool.
Posted by: JoeF. at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (sxOdv)


what she do?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (qCMvj)

368 It's just a sad state of affairs our choices are Trump or Hillary, but lesser of two is what we have.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (bksJQ)

369 Never sexually harass the employee in the black negligee/dominatrix outfit.

---- words of wisdom from Roger Ailes

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (1ZOkK)

370 360: Unfortunately, Tony Scott died a few years ago.

Posted by: Jackal at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (Lyh9/)

371 >>> I think you should permit them to entertain this fantasy. It's not worth the aggravation and frustration. It also seems to be ruining friendships and relationships for some people.

i generally don't tag people or call them out directly. I did call out Jonathan V. Last and Jay Cost, who are clearly pro-hillary.

But when it comes to "friendships and relationships," I keep finding that those I have friendships and relationsjips with are talking behind my back.

I didn't do that to them. Why are they doing that to me?

This is a POLITICAL discussion, not a personal one. The post above is making a political point - and naming no names.

If whoever has a rejoinder to it, if it's flawed in some way, I wish they'd say so, rather than just sniping at me behind my back.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (dciA+)

372 "I have concluded that the word conservative has lost all meaning. Everyone has their own definition of who is and who isn't a conservative.
Meaningless term."

Agreed. It's a lot of people living in their own private Idaho.

"Constitutional conservatism" is even worse. Sounds nice but it's incoherent as a political philosophy let alone a platform for a majority of voters to rally around.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (r1fLd)

373 I went through the same shit in 2008 with Ron Paul voters, who thought Obama is not that bad we can wait until 2012.

Then 2012 came, and the assholes voted for him again.

Both times these self righteous assholes feel zero responsibility for the last 8 years by claiming they did not vote for TFG and that a republican would not have done any better.

I hate everybody.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (Od14x)

374 Someone compared this race to Alien VS Predator.
Hillary is Alien,So therefore i am team Predator.
End of story

Posted by: jonjo at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (BDw2k)

375 I cant stand Kanye/Kardashians. That actress Chloe Moeretz commented that Kim K shd wear more clothes and they have been going after her, too. Khloe posted a photo of a woman she thought was the 19 y/o who had a swimsuit malfuction. It wasnt her and was done to embarrass her. This by a 34 y/o woman to a 19 y/o woman.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang!


I for one hope they can settle their spat in a pool of green jello.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (VY8H5)

376 Ace should continue to do posts about ProTrump and NeverTrump. It is good for comment numbers and hits. Just sit back and let the comment war take place.

BTW The last three polls of Trump vs. Ice Queen on RCP

1. Rasmussen (7/18-7/19) Trump 43-Ice Queen 42 (1000 LV)

Down from previous lead for Trump in that poll.

2. Reuters/Ipsos (7/16-7/20) Ice Queen 40-Trump 36 (1232 RV)

Ice Queen losing ground big time in this poll. In the previous Reuters polls she was way up. I know this because this it is the official poll of Anti-Trump folks everywhere who keep putting it up in their blogs, etc. as the only poll that matters on earth.

3. LA Times / USC (7/14-7/20) Tied at 43 (2050 LV)

LA Times is the same paper that allowed a op-ed from what I gather is a fan of Bill Kristol calling for a military coup if Trump wins. Therefore hardly a pro-Trump outfit. A Bill Kristol/Neo-Con/Prog coup would probably end as badly.

I have no idea what the inside details of each poll is, but the race is basically tied at this point. If I am right and Hillary has no room to grow then it is advantage Trump from this point on. Trump may be known as much as Hillary is to the public, but not in politics where Trump is still the newbie.

Note - Trump should present his children more, they seem to make those people worried about Trump's behavior more at ease. In fact they may have a political future themselves...

Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (KhJh8)

377 I am for Cruz, he's my senator. I will vote for him again for what ever. That said, at this point what does he have to do with the current election???? ABSOLUTELY F'ING NOTHING!!! He is no longer a choice. There are only two REALISTIC choices. One is bad and the other is satan incarnated. I'll take bad over satan any day.

***I too went through a never Trump faze.... now I'm pulling my big girl britches on and doing what what ever I have to to stop her heinous.

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (xVgrA)

378 Is Ailes resigning an admission of guilt?I don't think so.

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (B48dK)

379 Last summer, I said that Trump would likely be the nominee because it's what the numbers showed. I said at the time that I considered voting for him unlikely because "I consider him a dangerous clown". That's a quote from twitter. But I never participated in the Never Trump hashtag because a) I don't get into virtue signaling, which is all that that is and b) the prospect of a Hillary presidency is enough to make any rational person reassess his/her position.

I will note that despite my misgivings about Trump, he has never earned the antipathy from me that John McCain and his 1st Amendment abridging self did.

Right after Barry won in 2012, I had resigned myself to a Hillary presidency this year. The numbers, demographics, Pravda on the Potomac: all of it was on her side. But great God almighty, I would dearly love to not have to suffer through her presidency. That, and that alone is the ONLY thing that could get me to vote for Trump. That said, I live in a state where the explosive growth of federal teat suckers living in NOVA has pretty much guaranteed that my state will go Democrat, regardless. However, I will make my decision on election day. I won't unfriend, unfollow, or block anyone for voting however they see fit. But I will admit to being seriously turned off by both some of the preening Never Trumpers and some of the messiah-worshipping Trump supporters. Both groups are making me want to break out the voodoo doll to bring down SMOD on everyone.

Oh, and here I offer a counterpoint to my pessimism: http://goo.gl/30hVWf

Posted by: physics geek at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (MT22W)

380 The reason we have Trump is because for the last
50 years liberal have been marching through institution like education
and the arts and have proceeded to create a society of mostly ignorant,
self-absorbed, greedy idiots.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 05:00 PM (/tuJf)
Make that 100 years.

Posted by: Woodrow at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (FohCt)

381 No Ace, #NeverTrump will not cause a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

Trump (and his more crazy supporters) will cause a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

Just when many were ready to just walk away, Trump and his most ardent supporters start goading them, so of course they react.

They're responsible for it. They don't want to be, but they are.

And upon a Trump loss, would the Trump acolytes blame anyone and everyone who wasn't a Trump cheerleader. Heck, they'll blame even his supporters if they weren't outspoken enough.

Adults accept the consequences of their choices.

Upon a Trump loss, would those who advocated for him accept their consequences?

While it is possible that Hillary loses if she truly f**ks up, it would require a massive f**k-up of epic proportions. Trump's only real chance depends on the missteps of the Hillary campaign.

If Trump says something stupid, is it worse for a conservative to point it out in the almost hopeless chance that he will knock it off, be silent in the sea of others who are pointing it out, or to lie and protect Trump and enable his idiocy?

I will not lie for him or excuse the inexcusable. That doesn't make me a Hillary supporter or responsible for a Hillary win, though I know I will be accused nonetheless.

I have a moral obligation to vote against Hillary on election day. My personal vote on election day will not matter, so I have no moral obligation to vote for Trump. To say otherwise is sheer fearmongering.

Hillary is far, far worse than Trump. I sincerely hope she loses. My lack of cheerleading for Trump doesn't mean otherwise.

I know that I will be blamed even if I shut up from now until after the election.

But, Ace, will it satisfy you if I remain silent about Trump?

I'll happily attack Hillary. I'll work to support other campaigns. I will hold my tongue until after the election as it regards Trump. I will not respond to any provocation, unless it is a personal attack.

The die is cast. Nothing I can say will change how it lands. I see no reason to waste any energy on this any further.

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (vBeA5)

382 But what I must insist you cannot do -- what i will not permit you to do -- is fantasize that while a Trump supporter is resonsible for the gaffes and disasters of a President Trump, you are somehow innocent of the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary.

-Fuck off.

Posted by: scofflaw_x at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (7k+3J)

383 Molon Labe, bitchez!!!

Posted by: Burning Times Low Quality Pizza at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (2X7pN)

384 I wasn't aware Ace has been on a twitter rampage until an hour ago.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (VdICR)

385 It's amazing and depressing to look back on this election cycle.

After 8 years of the awful presidency of Obama during which GOP election victories managed to empty the Dem bench to the degree that Clinton's only serious opponent was Bernie Sanders, we entered this cycle with a great chance to win the White House. Clinton is recognized as a bad candidate and a complete liar even by most Dems. Yet she may well win. Ugh.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (8048L)

386 If my reasoning in the above post is flawed, I'd like to see a rebuttal to it.

But I won't. The #NeverTrumpers do not dispute arguments like this; they just cast stigma on those who disagree with them.

You will not see this discussed at the Weekly Standard, NRO, etc. The media does not have to respond to points that are contrary to its agenda -- they just impose silence.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (dciA+)

387 378
Is Ailes resigning an admission of guilt?I don't think so.

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (B48dK)

Guilt is such a 21st century concept. We talk about INTENT today, not guilt.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (2PHKP)

388 But when it comes to "friendships and relationships," I keep finding that those I have friendships and relationsjips with are talking behind my back.

I didn't do that to them. Why are they doing that to me?
Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (dciA+)


yikes

people are a-holes
fact of life

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (qCMvj)

389 'I wonder if she pinched her nipples to get them to stand out more in that sexy little black negligee.'

No. They have people for that.
The pincher runs out during commercials and tweaks the nips.

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (QM5S2)

390 Hey, weirdo. Make with the podcast already.

No need to do 50-hour versions. Just do like 45min ... * Ponders *

Doesn't Snapchat have a podcast/aggregate feature?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (VY8H5)



Yaaaaay! I get to whine and blame BC for stuff again and those are two of my most favorite things in the world!

We tried to podcast on Monday, which is pretty much the only day he has free what with that life and responsibilities and bullshit, and, seriously, his connection was dropping like every five minutes. We gave up after about 45 minutes of attempts of which maybe 20-25 was podcast and the rest was are you there, you're not there, fuck what happened.

I, being me, was sweet and kind and understanding and didn't mock him at all. Nope. Not me, delicate flower of innocent virtue that I am.

Apparently the stuff that did get recorded is not salvageable.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (mf5HN)

391 Has Hillary announced her successor to the throne yet?

Posted by: grammie winger at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (dFi94)

392 367, I guess it's just her overall tone. Look, she's a Bush girl so I get that she's not going to be enthusiastic about Trump.
But her constant critique about "messaging" is getting tiresome since--with her in charge of it--her old boss was a doormat for the Dems and the media....

Posted by: JoeF. at July 21, 2016 05:18 PM (sxOdv)

393 And just because: Hot. If you don't check out Morgan James then I don't know what's wrong with you.

https://youtu.be/Yq4KA0mUnC8

Posted by: buzzion at July 21, 2016 05:18 PM (z/Ubi)

394 288
I'm just going to leave this here:



The very sexy Morgan James singing Dream On for Post Modern Jukebox.



https://youtu.be/Yq4KA0mUnC8

Posted by: buzzion


Glad you did. That is some awesome talent. She can sing, too.

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 05:18 PM (LAe3v)

395 381 Posted by: The Political Hat at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (vBeA5)

Nailed it, bro.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:18 PM (27m1/)

396 Stephen in all honesty. It is not lost on anyone
that the term "vote your conscience" has been a #Nevertrump term that
most, correctly might I add or at least IMHO see as a direct avenue
Hillary support.



The term destroyed an otherwise good speech for that simple reason.

Posted by: Drider at July 21, 2016 05:06 PM (6Xbsz)

Stop treating words as if they are dog whistles... even if that was the rallying cry of the dump trump movement, Trump had already been nominated. Cruz is not responsible for your paranoid reading of his words that have plain English meanings and that were thoroughly explained in the speech in addition.

Instead of taking the challenge and making sure that he was meeting the meaning of Cruz's words, Trump and his supporters chose to attack like rabid dogs.

News flash: honorable men do not expect others to live up to pledges that they, themselves, have repudiated. Honorable men do not attack the families of their rivals and they certainly don't expect those men to then support them.


Yet knowing how Trump has acted (and knowing how you personally have condoned it), you have the nerve to expect anything from Cruz? Trump is lucky that Cruz took the high road and did not nuke him from space. Cruz instead focused, as Reagan did in '76, on extolling the principles of the party and urging that everybody live up to them and that anybody who did be supported.

Cruz was not in the wrong yesterday and it is NOT Trump's party or convention even if it is his nomination.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:18 PM (3JA/M)

397 I will vote for the stylish ivanka not the lump Chelsea.

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (zOTsN)

398 The Jeb!bots are experiencing thermo-nuclear butt-hurt.

The Lindsey!bots are experiencing thermo-nuclear butt-hurt.

The Scott!bots are experiencing thermo-nuclear butt-hurt.

The Katshit!bots are experiencing thermo-nuclear butt-hurt.

The Jindel!bots are experiencing thermo-nuclear butt-hurt.

Huckabee, Paul, Fiorina, Christie, Huckabee, Santorum, Gilmore


THERMO-nuclear butt-hurt.


What, they are not?

If only there was some rational objective way to discern why two bot armies are at war, but 14/15 are not...


Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (P/kVC)

399 Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 05:11 PM (/tuJf)

You got that right.

Anyway I totally agree with the anybody but Clinton vote but I will never get the outrage by the Trump supporters who say Trump is the destroyer of the GOPe and then bash the GOPe for not sufficiently supporting him or being against him.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (HnB/8)

400 The media does not have to respond to points that are contrary to its agenda -- they just impose silence

If you wear blue jeans, you deserve no response!

Posted by: George Will at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (yX7yv)

401 You will not see this discussed at the Weekly Standard, NRO, etc. The media does not have to respond to points that are contrary to its agenda -- they just impose silence.



Posted by: ace

-
Which is why you are my go-to source. I really don't trust anyone else. Most 'news' sources outright lie these days.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (7ZVPa)

402 >>Is Ailes resigning an admission of guilt?I don't think so.

According to CNN, the Murdoch's commissioned and investigation and they had north of 20 women come forward and say that he had acted inappropriately around them as well. That's a lot of groping.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (/tuJf)

403 Megan Kelly asking penetrating questions in a black negligee, so professional. That dress code must have really been loosened up, lately. Honestly, how do we know that Hume and Wallace are even wearing pants.

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (c6/9Q)

404 388
yikes

people are a-holes
fact of life

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (qCMvj)

That's why I generally don't associate with them.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (0mRoj)

405 No. They have people for that.
The pincher runs out during commercials and tweaks the nips.


Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (QM5S2)

Is that an actual thing?

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:20 PM (3JA/M)

406 Honestly, how do we know that Hume and Wallace are even wearing pants.


Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (c6/9Q)


Ugh. I just had a visual...........*gags*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (1ZOkK)

407 Clinton will have a supine, collaborationist Congress -- no matter what party controls Congress. Congress -- no matter what party controls Congress -- will put up some resistance to Trump.

Got to go with Trump.

Posted by: sinmi at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (HYGfH)

408
It's over a 100 degrees. And it's going to stay this hot for another 2 more.

I'm melting...

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (iQIUe)

409 403 Megan Kelly asking penetrating questions in a black negligee, so professional. That dress code must have really been loosened up, lately. Honestly, how do we know that Hume and Wallace are even wearing pants.

----------------------

who wears pants anymore?

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (/CIN4)

410 402 They wanted him out and they found what they wanted.I wonder how many they interviewed to find 20 or so that they could use.

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (B48dK)

411 379
Oh, and here I offer a counterpoint to my pessimism: http://goo.gl/30hVWf
Posted by: physics geek at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (MT22W)

Thank YOU!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (27m1/)

412 Oh, and here I offer a counterpoint to my pessimism: http://goo.gl/30hVWf
Posted by: physics geek at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (MT22W)



I'll allow it.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (mf5HN)

413 Krauthammer says: "What Cruz delivered was the longest suicide note in American political history and this morning he added an addendum."

Heh. When Charles is right, he can be really right.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (r1fLd)

414 What pisses me off is how I held my nose and got on board the McCain and Romney trains, even though I hated those bastards, but in the name of unity and defeating Obama. And the establishment, of whom nearly 100% of nevertrump is made (although not 100% of the establishment is nevertrump, to their credit) told me I had to get on board, my candidate fought the good fight but he lost and now get on board with the GOP hating McCain and the gov of Mass with the issues portfolio to match Romney.

Now the public has bucked those poobahs and picked someone they haven't pre-selected as they see it and decree it and the whinyass babies won't shut up about it. They aren't right on the "he's not a conservative" part (McCain and Romney were conservative??!11) and the "temperament issues" is worse on hillary's side, and one of them is going to get elected, so how can they still justify being "nevertrump?"

fuck all of them. Really, I hope the party shits the bed. The old social conservativism is over, we lost, get over it. The fiscally conservative still has a chance due to the fact we've taxed the rich to death and it keeps getting worse. The libertarian bent of the conservatives is valid and can even draw from liberals (classical). So the GOP needs to be reinvented anyway, like Grant said, the way to win the war is evident, they just can't face up to the numbers yet. There will be a lot of "dead bodies" to get through before the party comes out healthy in the end, at least for national elections.

Posted by: docweasel at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (hv5Z3)

415 I think it's pretty simple really.... I am as strong a conservative as one can be. I voted for Ted Cruz in the NH primary. Now NH could still be considered "in play" this general election even though it will be flooded with mASSholes working for the incompetent evil lying sack of shit and her twin girlfriend Liarwatha. For me it's simple, I would vote for a steaming pile of dog crap before I would ever EVER vote for Grannydisasterpants. Don't give a shit WHO or WHAT her opponent is, I'm voting AGAINST HER!!! Simple....

Posted by: Knightbrigade at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (z4eLR)

416 For those who don't live in swing states consider the possibility that Trump could win the electoral college but not the popular vote. Abstaining from voting in uber red or blue states can diminish his mandate if that happens.

Posted by: Whut?? at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (PvW5a)

417 On the one hand I've got Clinically Insane Liberal NY Democrat. On the other hand I've got Butcher of Benghazi Liberal NY Democrat. I hope Wisconsin isn't in play.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (dFi94)

418 The Political Hat,

I really don't mean you.

I'm talking about writers at Red State adn Weekly Standard who are plainly now pro-Hillary but won't actually say so because it would have detrimental effects on their careers.

See, in this stupid fucking jackass business, there is a lot riding on Quien Es Mas Macho? All the TruCons have to posture as the MOST conservative.

Obviously, endorsing hillary clinton might compromise their bid in the Quien Es Mas Macho derby.

So instead they just run anti-Trump pieces all day long, and deliberately -- knowingly -- work to elect Hillary Clinton.

But they won't admit that.

That could cost them in Quien es Mas Macho points.

I really do not give a fuck what commenters and random twitteres do.

But of the conservative media, I demand what I demand of the liberal media: honesty, and disclosure of one's biases and rooting/voting interests.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (dciA+)

419 Oh, and here I offer a counterpoint to my pessimism: http://goo.gl/30hVWf


Alexthechick had hawt IDF girls. This entry is also valid.

I think this could be more useful than longbow v. crossbow.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (1xUj/)

420 Some people will hate others when they are correct about a subject.

Most people will hate people who call bullshit on them, even when it is in the hated persons best interest to call bullshit.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (Od14x)

421 Oh, and here I offer a counterpoint to my pessimism: http://goo.gl/30hVWf


Hellooooo nurse!

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (0mRoj)

422 For the first time in my adult life I'm proud I live in MA (and my vote for POTUS don't mean shit).


Posted by: Moron plagiarizing Mooch at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM


*disgusted MA voter fistbump*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (bzd8I)

423 That actress Chloe Moeretz commented that Kim K shd wear more clothes and they have been going after her, too.
---
They went after HitGirl?

That won't end well.

Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (3Liv/)

424 Is the NeverTrump position now:
I'm flailing my arms wildly, and if you get hurt, it's not
my fault?

Posted by: wooga at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (yX7yv)

425 98 degrees and the compressor on my AC stops running. I call the AC people and they're here within the hour. Find out it's a capacitor. Replaced. Sitting resplendent again in a cool house. All within two hours.

I live in a right-to-work state in case anyone wants to know.

Posted by: Soona at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (Fmupd)

426 >>I have concluded voting for Trump means no Conservative ever gets nominated again...


Not a Trumpster, at all, but....seems every four years the GOP lectures us that we must accept moderate nominee like McCain and Romney (same w/Congressional and Senate nominees) to appeal to moderates. The conservative will lose because he/she will scare them off, the tell us.

Ok.

So, this time around we get the moderate/populist/(former?) Democrat Trump, someone who, like it or not, appeals to disaffected Dems and LIVs, the demographics they've been chasing for years. And the GOP does everything to destroy him.

The party doesn't want conservatives, it barely tolerates them during the campaign season (just long enough to get our votes), and stabs 'em in the back after being elected. I'm not sure how Trump is the cause of this; he's the *response* to it.

It's a clusterf#ck. The only thing I can focus on is keeping Hillary out of office.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (NOIQH)

427 Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones. But you still have to choose.

Posted by: 12th Doctor at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (F9322)

428 Holy crap. I cant believe Ace had to explain this concept. I wonder how many times he had to lean over and chirp into his waste basket before it was done. It's like arguing with a liberal.

Posted by: cumulonimbus at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (bx5ka)

429 Krauthammer says: "What Cruz delivered was the longest suicide note in American political history and this morning he added an addendum."

Heh. When Charles is right, he can be really right.

----------

Yet, he's often wrong.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (gmeXX)

430 There are a lot of #NeverTrumpers whose position I would respect more were it not for the fact that they almost never push back against Hillary. If you spend 70+ percent of your Twitter/blog/FB time railing against Trump because he's "just as bad as Hillary", you'll excuse me for assuming that you don't really believe he's just as bad. Or that you are aggro-virtue-signaling. Either way, if you're a conservative and your online commentary is primarily anti-Trump, you're letting Hillary off the hook. Why would you do that?

Posted by: holygoat at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (DbBV5)

431 Anyway I totally agree with the anybody but Clinton
vote but I will never get the outrage by the Trump supporters who say
Trump is the destroyer of the GOPe and then bash the GOPe for not
sufficiently supporting him or being against him.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (HnB/

That does seem kinda contradictory.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (3JA/M)

432 "355 "I was hoping Megyn Kelly would pose this same question last night, until I saw her in that sexy little black negligee. Then all I could think about was 'I wonder if she pinched her nipples to get them to stand out more in that sexy little black negligee.'"

Oh, of course. That classic trick perfected by John Chancellor back in his convention-coverage days.
Posted by: torquewrench at July 21, 2016 05:13 PM (noWW6)"

I think I broke something laughing at your observation!

Oh to have nice boring, classy people like John Chancellor and David Brinkley back.... I generally like Megyn, but the dress was not appropriate for a serious occasion at work.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (8048L)

433 It's over a 100 degrees. And it's going to stay this hot for another 2 more



3 more. Rest of July. August. September. And a good chunk of October.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (3C84c)

434 Aren't nevertrumpers happy with Pence either?


(of course no one knows what he said now because of Cruz's principles)

Posted by: Pam at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (cF0hS)

435 Posted by: docweasel at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (hv5Z3)

So you're saying you shouldn't have voted for Romney and McCain and followed you conscience?

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (HnB/8)

436 I saw "steaming pile of dog crap" open for Liarwatha back in '91 at the Omni

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (/CIN4)

437 Oh, and here I offer a counterpoint to my pessimism: http://goo.gl/30hVWf


This position is worthy of the most sober and reflective consideration.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (8ZskC)

438 "Not to sound like Trump, but with some exceptions, it is the Trump people here that lob the first uncivil grenades. They cannot discuss any criticism of Trump without it devolving.
Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 04:55 PM (3JA/M)"

I'm not really talking about here, and I comment only intermittently, so I see both sides kind of sucking.

I'm talking about the big Conservative/GOP sites that are pretty much exclusively #nevertrump, and read like dailykos

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (Uy8SG)

439 I guess it's just her overall tone. Look, she's a Bush girl so I get that she's not going to be enthusiastic about Trump.
But her constant critique about "messaging" is getting tiresome since--with her in charge of it--her old boss was a doormat for the Dems and the media....
Posted by: JoeF. at July 21, 2016 05:18 PM (sxOdv)


ah, okay

I like Dana. I don't get so worked up if someone says something I don't agree with. I like to hear all sides.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (qCMvj)

440 See. I disagree with you on this. I think you should permit them to entertain this fantasy. It's not worth the aggravation and frustration. It also seems to be ruining friendships and relationships for some people.

Posted by: L, Elle at July 21, 2016 05:10 PM (6IPEM)


I could attempt to untangle the whys and wherefores, but in short, nobody is actually listening anymore because all the bitterness and shouting is all that's left.

I mean, a few people are still trying to puzzle it all out, or explain calmly and rationally, but the shouting and insults carry too much weight now, and a coalition may not be possible.

A coalition that is, of course, necessary for victory.

It's kind of metaphorically like the tendency of the right to abandon territory, like the "get rid of CA/MA/HI" etc calls, or sell them to some other country or whatever.

Someone was saying that you don't need to concern yourself with how your message might ring in certain "PC" ears because only urban people worry about those things - you know, 80% of the population.

I honestly have no idea how many people don't care vs. can't do the math vs. are actually on the other side. Or another side, at least, let's just say an unspoken agenda.

Hillary *could* still be beaten, unfortunately the coalition to do it are still fighting each other.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (wB8Tg)

441 Self awareness is good. I am not a Trump fan and I don't plan on voting for Trump. I don't go out of my way to crap on him for personal gratification but if someone asks me I tell them.

Posted by: Drew in MO at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (cGlgB)

442 This is so shallow but what was Megyn wearing last night? I was tuned in to CSpan and this morning saw a pic of her but all I could deduce was she was wearing a black spaghetti strap blouse of some kind? Or was she wearing a slinky cocktail dress?

Posted by: IC at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (a0IVu)

443 423 That actress Chloe Moeretz commented that Kim K shd wear more clothes and they have been going after her, too.
---
They went after HitGirl?

That won't end well.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (3Liv/)


OK you c*nts. What're you gonna do now?

Posted by: Hit Girl at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (0mRoj)

444 That could cost them in Quien es Mas Macho points.

Bow ties es muy macho!

Posted by: George Will at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (yX7yv)

445 >>>>> But when it comes to "friendships and relationships," I keep finding that those I have friendships and relationsjips with are talking behind my back.
I didn't do that to them. Why are they doing that to me?
-------
I have heard and seen this. I didn't want to say that YOU have had friendships and relationships ruined so as not to make it personal, but it is, isn't it? I am sincerely sorry for this. Some of these people have been your "friends" for a long time. It is impossible not to feel betrayed or upset by this kind of two-facedness.

Honestly, I would take the talking behind your back as a compliment of sorts. You're a very fierce debater. They resort to whispering campaigns bc they can't take you on and win any kind of one on one argument.

Posted by: L, Elle at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (6IPEM)

446 They struck down voter ID in Texas. They are playing for keeps. Don't forget that

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (zOTsN)

447 Ugh. I just had a visual...........*gags*




Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (1ZOkK)

what's good for the goose...-------------
who wears pants anymore?

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:21 PM (/CIN4)

I know, right ?


Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (c6/9Q)

448 i generally don't tag people or call them out directly. I did call out Jonathan V. Last and Jay Cost, who are clearly pro-hillary.

But when it comes to "friendships and relationships," I keep finding that those I have friendships and relationsjips with are talking behind my back.

I didn't do that to them. Why are they doing that to me?

This is a POLITICAL discussion, not a personal one. The post above is making a political point - and naming no names.

If whoever has a rejoinder to it, if it's flawed in some way, I wish they'd say so, rather than just sniping at me behind my back.
Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (dciA+)



Speaking of things that make me nearly unfathomably sad.

This political is per se personal madness must end.

It. Must. End.

It's a disagreement, not a rejection of the entirety of a person and their belief system, their personality, their morals and their very being.

Hell, Bander and I disagree, vehemently, on immigration. He thinks I have a bug up my ass about it and I think that he is wrong in all the ways that one can be wrong and then he goes and borrows some more wrongness from Michael Moore.

And? And nothing. He says something, I yell, he patronizes me and I get pissy and then we Move. The. Fuck. On.

It's the nummification of interpersonal relationship. Now all your relationships have to be warm and cozy and fuzzy and there's no disagreements and no disputes and no agreeing to disagree and none of what makes life interesting.

I despair, I despair.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (mf5HN)

449 Is Ailes resigning an admission of guilt?I don't think so.



Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (B48dK)

Guilt is such a 21st century concept. We talk about INTENT today, not guilt.
---
I think I read he intends to walk away with $60 million, which is not bad for whatever he had to sign.

Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (3Liv/)

450 I am so sick of all this fucking bullshit, and I am not going to stop posting, going off to sulk. Just because I am voting for Trump does not mean I would ever want to be besties with him. For Christ's sake, this ain't personal for me.
Know what? Voting for Trump does NOT obligate me to run down any of the other candidates, and I ain't gonna do it. Fuck that. There's more at stake here than my goddam feelings. This ain't some fucking High School Student Council election, the fucking country hangs in the balance. Some people need to grow the fuck up.

Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (d6TTt)

451 Oddly enough, I can envision both Trump and Hillary getting a negative bump in the polls coming out of their respective conventions. Could be wrong.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (NeFrd)

452 Oh to have nice boring, classy people like John
Chancellor and David Brinkley back.... I generally like Megyn, but
the dress was not appropriate for a serious occasion at work.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (8048L)


The negligee was tame. I guess you missed the black bondage outfit she wore last week.

"Don't sexually harass me! Notice me! Harass me!" Girl's confusing.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (1ZOkK)

453 If for no better reason, I want Trump to win to see Saudi Arabia demand its money back from the fat drunken cow.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (8ZskC)

454 There are a lot of #NeverTrumpers whose position I
would respect more were it not for the fact that they almost never push
back against Hillary. If you spend 70+ percent of your Twitter/blog/FB
time railing against Trump because he's "just as bad as Hillary", you'll
excuse me for assuming that you don't really believe he's just as bad.
Or that you are aggro-virtue-signaling. Either way, if you're a
conservative and your online commentary is primarily anti-Trump, you're
letting Hillary off the hook. Why would you do that?

Posted by: holygoat at July 21, 2016 05:23 PM (DbBV5)

Could be because saying that Hillary is terrible is "dog bites man" commentary and that having a Democrat running as a Republican who is as awful as the official Democrat is more "man bites dog" commentary.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (3JA/M)

455 "I will probably vote for Gary Johnson or a write in. But between the two viable candidates"

Romney reboot. I bet he wanted Obama to lose too.

FAIL!!

Posted by: Drider at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (6Xbsz)

456 Great Video! CNN reporter gets shivved with his own logic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxcAN0t6GrI

Posted by: USA at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (tfM+W)

457 "BTW The last three polls of Trump vs. Ice Queen on RCP "
If you dig into these polls, they show Trump momentum.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (r1fLd)

458 Aren't nevertrumpers happy with Pence either?


(of course no one knows what he said now because of Cruz's principles)

Posted by: Pam


Midol Medved said in equivalent terms that it doesn't matter. PRINCIPALZ! CONSCIENCE! AUTHORITEH!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (VY8H5)

459 It's worth noting that 'Vote your conscience' is what the upstart delegates wanted to be able to do by being unbound. I don't think Cruz picked that phrase without a reason.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (ZKlDy)

460 I read Claire Berlinski's Menace in Europe when it came out years ago and I knew right then that I didn't need to take her seriously ever again. Never have I seen someone bend over backward so much to misdiagnose a problem.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (nFdGS)

461 And to all who have pre-conceded and will vote for Gary Johnson because they don't live in a swing state, why bother?

Posted by: cumulonimbus at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (bx5ka)

462 "403 Megan Kelly asking penetrating questions in a black negligee, so professional. That dress code must have really been loosened up, lately. Honestly, how do we know that Hume and Wallace are even wearing pants.
Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 05:19 PM (c6/9Q)"

I think Brit Hume is probably wearing pants. He got teased one time after being on Fox News Sunday when the camera pulled back to reveal he was wearing sneakers with his nice business suit. Chris Wallace probably sleeps in his business suits.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (8048L)

463 Voters are not responsible for the policy decisions of elected officials. Elected officials are responsible for those decisions. I really get tired of people saying that any voter is responsible for anything other than they voted.

I am curious, do you think that the people who voted for Richard Nixon are responsible for watergate burglary and coverup?

Do you think the people who voted for Ronald Regan are responsible for the amnesty of 11 million illegal immigrants?

Do you think the people who voted for George Bush are responsible for Medicare Part D?

I have never heard this argument before, and it seems to me that it is not the correct way to talk to people about their vote

People should be talking up the positive things Trump will bring, instead of trying to shame people into believing that failing to vote for trump means they are responsible for every possible policy outcome of a hillary victory

You are not going to convince anyone by saying such. You will simply lead them to not show up at the voting booth come the first week of November

Regards

Posted by: JeffreyL at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (mXv3y)

464 Say, did they sweep the convention for a priest with a briefcase and cancel Jessica Fletcher's credentials?

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (FtrY1)

465 378 Is Ailes resigning an admission of guilt?I don't think so.

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:16 PM (B48dK)

++++

He is guilty of pocketing $60 million for going away. He stays on the books as a consultant, so that fantasy of him doing something to compete with Fox is dead.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (R+30W)

466 A lot of nevertrumpers (not all) clearly prefer Hillary. When Trump gets a good poll, they mock it. They end every post with "nevertrump," but never (or rarely) "neverhillary." If Trump does something they should like (e.g., name Pence as VP) it is down played, and Pence is mocked, instead of Trump praised.

But the most annoying thing about these dumb motherfuckers, is that they think they should be able to so all these things with no consequences: How dare you be mad at Ted Cruz this morning, you thought-police fascists!

Well, we are mad. We're gonna stay mad. I wouldn't vote for Ted Cruz now, if you pointed a gun at my head; and NRO is no different than the NY Times-- a lying rag selling opinion as fact.

You wanted a war, nevertrump? You got one. And you're gonna continue to have one-- whatever happens in November.

#AlwaysTrump #MAGA

Posted by: trickamsterdam at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (kjCXP)

467 Ace: "Shut up and stop criticizing Trump. Only I'm allowed to criticize Trump because I'm going to hold my nose and vote for him. The rest of you are not allowed to have an opinion."

Posted by: Captain Kirock at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (nKBkE)

468 Here's the issue with asking people vote for Trump because he ain't Hillary - that reason is most effective when Trump is mostly a question mark on his reasoning, policy, and decision making process. However, and here's the thing, the more we learn about what goes on in Trump's mind, the less likely and the less effective the 'He ain't Hillary' argument becomes. Do we want to elect Trump as president if by the time the election rolls around, he turns out to be worse than Hillary, that his positions might be written by Bernie Sanders? How can you ask someone to vote for Trump at that point?

I desperately want someone to tell me something, anything, no matter how small, of a reason to vote against Hillary and for Trump that is more than 'He ain't Hillary.' So far, neither Trump nor his supporters have provided much in the way of that - even Trump's support of the 2nd Amendment was going south post-Orlando until the NRA told him to grow a pair or else.

Posted by: TKYC at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (EvxH9)

469 If for no better reason, I want Trump to win to see Saudi Arabia demand its money back from the fat drunken cow.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero)

Huma! How do you say "No Refunds" in arabic?

Posted by: Hillary! (Pandering, Drunk or both?) at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (UPYhp)

470
It seems clear to me the GOPe, the real e elitists in the party have always been ok with hillary. And they, like Paul Ryan, will give her anything she wants. We know how she will govern, she is a true believer in marxism.

It is less clear what Trump would do, I personally think he will bring on more gun control and his talk about a border fence will not come to fruition. He may do something accidentally conservative, but I don't think he has any set ideology other than the seat of his pants. Ironically, Ryan, et al, will fight him every step of the way.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (ODxAs)

471 The number one reason to vote Trump is that Hillary will never be president, EVER. Vote Trump to deny the bitch. Do it for hates sake.

Posted by: she can be gone FOREVER at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (8b2u+)

472 Whats the difference between Hillary and Trump, as far as their values, history and ambitions go? I'm not referring to their words, I mean their, established by their past, history and values? This is a serious question It seems many buy into the false dichotomy fallacy.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (aRUb8)

473 @BenHowe insulted ace on twitter, i intend to respond.

Posted by: Dr Spank at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (4e+hS)

474 The negligee was tame. I guess you missed the black bondage outfit she wore last week.

"Don't sexually harass me! Notice me! Harass me!" Girl's confusing.

--------------------------

mixed messages, like the teenage girls that wear leggings with phrases like "yummy" on their ass or something like that.

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (/CIN4)

475 The last two elections the result of which did more damage to the country and to the world than any in the history of this country, I would submit. Of course had we won, we still would have likely lost because, as we are painfully aware, our candidates were lying crapweasels of our own party. And, as we now know because the scales have fallen from our eyes, our party had been lying to us and taking us for granted for decades.

We are a divided country not only because of Obama, but also, again I submit, because it is every bit as much in the interest of the establishment Republicans to have us divided as it is in the interest of the Democrats.

Trump being elected might actually validate that, and that, even if it is the only positive thing to come out of a Trump presidency, would be a win.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:29 PM (4ng05)

476 448 Yeah,I don't get why political disagreement needs to get personal either.I disagree with plenty of things said here without it causing me to personally dislike the people who I disagree with.

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:29 PM (B48dK)

477 "It's the nummification of interpersonal relationship. Now all your relationships have to be warm and cozy and fuzzy and there's no disagreements and no disputes and no agreeing to disagree and none of what makes life interesting."


Sadly true. Step out of line, your wife files for divorce.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:29 PM (0mRoj)

478 You wanted a war, nevertrump? You got one. And you're gonna continue to have one-- whatever happens in November.

----------

I think this is healthy. You can only paper over divisions so long.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:29 PM (gmeXX)

479 Most of you are not going to stop hammering each other over this.

Your vote is your own, it's your birthright.

Even after 8 years of Hillary! (which is the likely outcome), America will still be here (but some of us won't be). What kind of country this is then, who can tell?
Millions will vote. Your one vote matters almost next to nothing. But if millions of people think the same way, then it does matter a great deal.

Ted Cruz gave a good speech last night on principles, but did not overtly endorse Donald Trump. It gives us all plenty to argue about, but it is mostly irrelevant. Ted has chosen this path, and he is a very smart man, so I am repeatedly told. I have no problem with Ted Cruz.

Hillary is the likely outcome because the Democrat party machine will cheat as much as necessary to win. Pennsylvania will NOT go Trump's way in November. The machine will see to that. Neither will New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio or Florida. Toss ups now, but machine politics will see to the right outcome for Hillary.
Our system is broken, and Donald Trump did not break it. Get over this. All the folk myths we like to believe about America are just that. Get over it.

Read about the real history of some of our previous presidents. A lot of them were real jackwagons. Harry Truman cursed like a long shoreman and was a made man in a crooked Democrat machine, Franklin Roosevelt lied about half the time, John Kennedy banged everything that moved and his Daddy bought at least one election for him, Lyndon Johnson (who stole at least one election, and probably had people killed). Bill Clinton was a rapist and a serial philanderer; from a place called Hope. And that's just for starters. These people over the last 70 years have put us in this place.

And you're mad at Donald Trump? Really, I get it. It's his hair.


Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 05:30 PM (RFeQD)

480 So what exactly do Nevertrumpers think they will gain at this point? The hope that 2020 will be better? 4/8 years of Hillary after 8 years of obama don't bode well.....I guess to them a Pyrrhic victory is worth it....

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:30 PM (O2RFr)

481 The negligee was tame. I guess you missed the black bondage outfit she wore last week.

"Don't sexually harass me! Notice me! Harass me!" Girl's confusing.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (1ZOkK)


------------------


I would have ravished her and then faced all the consequences with a smile.

Posted by: Soona at July 21, 2016 05:30 PM (Fmupd)

482 They struck down voter ID in Texas. They are playing for keeps. Don't forget that

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (zOTsN)

Part of the court's reasoning in that case REALLY did not make sense (I mean more than normal). The reasoning was that going out to get an ID that the state provided for free was onerous and expensive (time and gas you know). But if it is too onerous to haul yourself to the local DMV, isn't it too onerous to haul yourself to your communities polling place?

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:30 PM (3JA/M)

483 "If Trump does something they should like (e.g., name Pence as VP) it is down played, and Pence is mocked, instead of Trump praised. "

So Anne Coulter is a NeverTrump. Never knew that.

"NRO is no different than the NY Times-- a lying rag selling opinion as fact. "

NRO has never disguised itself as an opinion magazine. NYT pretends it report news. Get your prejudices straight.

Posted by: TKYC at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (EvxH9)

484 Under Hillary, the view never changes.

Posted by: Huma at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (ojlyG)

485 >>>370 360: Unfortunately, Tony Scott died a few years ago.
Posted by: Jackal at July 21, 2016 05:15 PM (Lyh9/)

That's okay, I'm behind on my movies anyways. Shit, I'm still catching up on Peckinpah. But I can watch Last Boy Scout, Enemy of the State, Spy Games, True Romance, etc over and over again if they come on.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (2gKX/)

486 Whats the difference between Hillary and Trump, as far as their values, history and ambitions go? I'm not referring to their words, I mean their, established by their past, history and values? This is a serious question It seems many buy into the false dichotomy fallacy.
Posted by: Mimzey

Trump has never compromised National Security to avoid FOIA, he's never left 4 Americans to die at the hands of savages...
Need more?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (UPYhp)

487 Far down in the pack I am.
BUT, I totally agree. #nevertrump are PRO Hillary. Period!

Posted by: lynndh at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (DaWUf)

488 This only makes sense if you assume Trump can win, which I don't; hence the dye is cast. Voting for Trump in the primary was a vote for Hillary. If you didn't want her as President then you should have voted for any of 5 or 6 options that could have won. Voting for Trump in the general is just trying to take the defeat from embarrassing to respectable.

Posted by: Joe_C at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (5eTa/)

489 People should be talking up the positive things
Trump will bring, instead of trying to shame people into believing that
failing to vote for trump means they are responsible for every possible
policy outcome of a hillary victory

You are not going to convince
anyone by saying such. You will simply lead them to not show up at the
voting booth come the first week of November

Regards


Posted by: JeffreyL at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (mXv3y)
===========================================

I like what you said.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (dFi94)

490 The Political Hat,

I really don't mean you.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (dciA+)


Thank you.

You've made your position clear that you advocating the defeat of Hillary, with Trump being the necessary means.

I respect that position.

I still intend, outside of responding to a personal attack, to not bother saying anything further about Trump until after the election. At this point it is a waste of energy debating the point further.

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (vBeA5)

491 A friend of mine is a Trump supporter. He thinks Trump will win, and today he made an interesting comment: Trump keeps making the media play his own game rather than whatever game they would like to play. My friend contrasted Trump with McCain and/or Romney... the media always framed the discussion of those candidates, and they always had to react to it.

I think my friend isn't even fazed when Trump says something stupid and the press rakes him for it. It's still better than the press framing the discussion and making the Republican swear he doesn't hate poor people or whatever.

I hope he's right. I don't think Trump would be great, but he would be massively better than Hillary Clinton. At least he seems pretty content that he's rich, and he wouldn't be corruptly scrambling to sell influence and get himself richer.

My state is a pretty reliable Democrat state for national election stuff. If I'm convinced that it won't be close, I may end up voting for the Libertarian candidate. The old wisdom: the Libertarians never get more than like 1% of the vote, and voting Libertarian is exactly like voting for Ross Perot. Given the pathetic performance of the top Republicans, I'm about ready for a serious third party challenge, so I might vote for the Libertarian Party candidate just to help pump the numbers up and make the LP more credible in future elections.

Posted by: mr_jack at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (M59SC)

492 "Oh to have nice boring, classy people like John
Chancellor and David Brinkley back.... I generally like Megyn, but
the dress was not appropriate for a serious occasion at work.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (8048L)

The negligee was tame. I guess you missed the black bondage outfit she wore last week.

"Don't sexually harass me! Notice me! Harass me!" Girl's confusing.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (1ZOkK)"

Honestly, I haven't seen a lot of her outfits lately. The election is so depressing that I rarely watch the news anymore. She's very lovely and has an enviable figure which she & FNC obviously likes showing off. The dress just seemed too revealing. The photo spreads she does for magazines are a lot more risque than I'd do in her place. I've seen photos of her "off duty" and she's fond of sweats, sneakers, and no makeup.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (8048L)

493 484 Under Hillary, the view never changes.

------------------

*shudders*

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (/CIN4)

494 OT but I'm watching Stranger Things on Netflix. There's some obviously derivative stuff but so far it's pretty tight and I'm enjoying it.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (0mRoj)

495 Trump being elected might actually validate that,
and that, even if it is the only positive thing to come out of a Trump
presidency, would be a win.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:29 PM (4ng05)

But what if he's just RickRolling you?

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (aRUb8)

496 I posted for the record long ago when it appeared Trump would win the nomination, that if he was lucky enough to become President , hand to God, I would not wish for his failure just so I could be proven right. In fact I will earnestly pray that he will be successful in turning our Country back into the right direction. I would happily eat a garbage truck full of crow if that could happen.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (HnB/8)

497 Trump hasn't killed anybody. Let four people burn to death and go to bed. Or jail a video maker

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (zOTsN)

498 It's the nummification of interpersonal
relationship. Now all your relationships have to be warm and cozy and
fuzzy and there's no disagreements and no disputes and no agreeing to
disagree and none of what makes life interesting.



I despair, I despair.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM


Exactly. I once spent 3 months working an internship with a friend from the same law journal. He's a staunch lib, I'm not. We were having a great argument over lunch, when he turned to some of the younger kids and said "please take note...what you're seeing here is two people disagreeing without being disagreeable." I think it was a new thing for them. People have forgotten that it's possible to be a friend to someone who doesn't share your every viewpoint.

Oh, and

*pushes all the lemon squares through the usb port*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 21, 2016 05:33 PM (bzd8I)

499 476 448 Yeah,I don't get why political disagreement needs to get personal either.I disagree with plenty of things said here without it causing me to personally dislike the people who I disagree with.



I don't personally dislike any poster here. Whether I agree with them or not. I'd have a beer with any of y'all.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 05:33 PM (3C84c)

500 I think this is healthy. You can only paper over divisions so long.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:29 PM (gmeXX)


These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood.

Posted by: Clemenza at July 21, 2016 05:33 PM (8ZskC)

501 You know who this helps?

Romney, I think

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at July 21, 2016 05:33 PM (UBzPO)

502 Voting for Trump in the primary was a vote for Hillary.

Do You honestly feel a vote for Cruz would change anything? I mean I wanted Walker.... I honestly would have liked almost all of them over Trump, but We got trump... Is it better to have Hillary and hope we'll do better in 2020? I just don't see it...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:33 PM (O2RFr)

503 Part of the court's reasoning in that case REALLY did not make sense (I mean more than normal). The reasoning was that going out to get an ID that the state provided for free was onerous and expensive (time and gas you know). But if it is too onerous to haul yourself to the local DMV, isn't it too onerous to haul yourself to your communities polling place?
Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:30 PM (3JA/M)



It was a plurality decision with no majority opinion.

Any opinion like that, I don't care if it's about beekeeping, is a hot mess of dog shit on fire.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:34 PM (mf5HN)

504 Whats the difference between Hillary and Trump, as
far as their values, history and ambitions go? I'm not referring to
their words, I mean their, established by their past, history and
values? This is a serious question It seems many buy into the false
dichotomy fallacy.


Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (aRUb

The only differences I can see is that Trump has not had the power that Hillary has had (and so hasn't had the chance to abuse it as she has had) and Trump is, as far as I know, not rapey like Bill.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:34 PM (3JA/M)

505 A write-in is a vote for Hilary. I am NOT a Trump fan but I loathe Hilary. I loathe the thought of how many more secrets will be buried with her as President. And her appointments to the Supreme Court? I cannot imagine. I want Newt or someone in this administration to find out what Obama had on Justice Roberts. There is so much stuff buried....I want it found. So yes. I will happily vote R. Trump will get my vote and I will hope and pray that he surrounds himself with advisors to hold him in check. I am NEVER HILARY.

Posted by: dixiegal88 at July 21, 2016 05:34 PM (n9Dq9)

506 I posted for the record long ago when it appeared Trump would win the nomination, that if he was lucky enough to become President , hand to God, I would not wish for his failure just so I could be proven right. In fact I will earnestly pray that he will be successful in turning our Country back into the right direction. I would happily eat a garbage truck full of crow if that could happen.

-------------

Same here. I've said I'm more NotTrump2016. If he wins and does well, I'll vote for him in 2020. Maybe Trump and Cruz will work together to get all these great things accomplished, and all will be forgiven in 2024.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (gmeXX)

507 482 They struck down voter ID in Texas. They are playing for keeps. Don't forget that

Posted by: ThunderB at July 21, 2016 05:25 PM (zOTsN)

Part of the court's reasoning in that case REALLY did not make sense (I mean more than normal). The reasoning was that going out to get an ID that the state provided for free was onerous and expensive (time and gas you know). But if it is too onerous to haul yourself to the local DMV, isn't it too onerous to haul yourself to your communities polling place?
Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:30 PM (3JA/M)




None of their reasoning in these cases ever make sense.
Especially after you see the side by side comparison of what you need ID for and the only thing, (voting), you don't.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (3C84c)

508 If for no better reason, I want Trump to win to see Saudi Arabia demand its money back from the fat drunken cow.
---
Apropos of nothing, did anyone else see The Night Manager?

Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (3Liv/)

509 begging email of the day: you can guess who:

the Republicans in Cleveland have had a lot to say about my mom this
week. They've called her names, they've attacked her character, and
they've said she wouldn't be a good president.



Unlike the Republicans, my mom's not interested in a mud fight -- she's
talking about real policies that would actually make a real difference
for American families. That's who my mom is -- focused on what's really
at stake in this election, not trying to hurl the most creative, or
offensive, insult of the day.



So let's show my mom that we have her back, today and every day.
We know that she's the right person to lead our country, and we're
going to do absolutely everything we can to help her win this election.
All it takes is one donation to get your free sticker and to show her
you're ready to fight by her side...

Posted by: Satan, taking a leetle break at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (qSIlh)

510
as awful as obama is, i don't know of a single convenient suicide in his circle; hillary on the other hand...

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (c6/9Q)

511 Tomorrow headline:

Logic, having been tortured for hours by anti-Trump supporters (sic) on AoSHQ, has been pronounced dead.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (4ng05)

512 Posted by: mr_jack at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (M59SC)

He's doing something right if he can convince people he is p'wning the press while having the highest negative poll numbers of any Presidential candidate. I don't know how you square the two.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (HnB/8)

513 This political is per se personal madness must end.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 21, 2016 05:26 PM (mf5HN)


All indications are it will continue or get worse.

It's the new normal.

We Are All Trigglypuff Now. (well, most)

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (wB8Tg)

514 For those who are still unsure about voting for Trump -

Just imagine inauguration day and Trump giving a speech like only he can give...then imagine Obama being forced to sit there and take it. Obama will be forced to hear Trump muse about big walls, about America being fabulous, about Mexican gangsters, etc. in one of the most politically incorrect speeches in American history.

Obama will just have to sit there, not say a word, and to end his presidency like that...it would be almost Shakespearean!

Is that not worth voting for Trump? Is that not worth the price of admission for a chance to see Obama off the way he deserves?

Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (KhJh8)

515 433 It's over a 100 degrees. And it's going to stay this hot for another 2 more
-------
3 more. Rest of July. August. September. And a good chunk of October.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT
-------
Yep, it's only July, August is usually the hottest month in TEXIT.

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (xVgrA)

516 All of us here actually do agree on way more than we disagree on.

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (B48dK)

517
Behold, the field in which I grow my fucks...

http://goo.gl/zIK9Hj

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (iQIUe)

518 "mixed messages, like the teenage girls that wear leggings with phrases like "yummy" on their ass or something like that.
Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:28 PM (/CIN4)"

Yes, that's disturbing. I think there's a clothing company called "Juicy" that places their name on the rump area of a lot of girl's clothing. Worse is the "Prosti-tot" clothing for the tween girls.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (8048L)

519 489
People should be talking up the positive things

Trump will bring,




Posted by: JeffreyL at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (mXv3y)

WILL bring?? What are you basing that claim on? Hope?... His past stated values and allegiances? ... If it is hope for change, well, that's what we got with Obama. How is that working out?


Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (aRUb8)

520 These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood.
Posted by: Clemenza at July 21, 2016 05:33 PM (8ZskC)

--------------

You said it. The public is agitated. Good things can come from an agitated voter base. See BrexIT.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (gmeXX)

521 >>>494 OT but I'm watching Stranger Things on Netflix. There's some obviously derivative stuff but so far it's pretty tight and I'm enjoying it.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (0mRoj)


Could you include more Winona-specific detail? Outfits, cleavage, lips, eyes, how she moves, etc...

Thanks in advance!!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (2gKX/)

522 I have never heard this argument before, and it seems to me that it is not the correct way to talk to people about their vote

People should be talking up the positive things Trump will bring, instead of trying to shame people into believing that failing to vote for trump means they are responsible for every possible policy outcome of a hillary victory

You are not going to convince anyone by saying such. You will simply lead them to not show up at the voting booth come the first week of November

Regards
Posted by: JeffreyL at July 21, 2016 05:27 PM (mXv3y)

No one takes the time to try to persuade anyone now. It is all, "shut the fuck up" and "your guy is a lying bitch." People on both sides say they want the same things, but then spend all their time focusing on internecine battles and who has the biggest shlong by getting the best insult on the opposing side.

The people who are often the most fierce advocates for a position here are often the biggest salesmen for the opposition.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (3ZoRf)

523 517
Behold, the field in which I grow my fucks...

http://goo.gl/zIK9Hj
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (iQIUe)

And ye shall see that it is barren.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (0mRoj)

524 405 No. They have people for that.
The pincher runs out during commercials and tweaks the nips.


Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (QM5S2)

Is that an actual thing?
Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:20 PM (3JA/M)

J-Lo's Nipple Tweaker http://lifeisajoke.com/pictures429_html.htm

Posted by: Grover's at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (XVv7L)

525 510
as awful as obama is, i don't know of a single convenient suicide in his circle; hillary on the other hand...

-----------------------------

your saying shooting yourself in the head multiple times and moving away from the spot you did it is "convenient"

Posted by: Zombie Vince Foster at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (/CIN4)

526 You are my hero.

Posted by: janetoo at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (t3qE+)

527 I wanted The-Rent-Is-Too-Damn-High guy.

Either him or Al Greene.

Posted by: Soona at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (Fmupd)

528 In 2008, I was not enthused by McCainiac and, for the first time in my life, I was going to not vote for president. Then he chose She Who Must Not Be Named and that was enough to get me to vote the ticket. I'm so glad I did. Otherwise I would have felt very guilty for inflicting Obozo on America.

Back when I was a kid, there was a TV show I liked entitled Code Name Jericho. There was a local TV show where viewers could write in and bitch and moan about programing etc. So I wrote in urging them to not cancel that show. The station manager read my letter on the air and, in response, told the world the show would be cancelled. I didn't know that the big boys in Hollywood made such decisions, not the local station manager. I was convinced that by writing in, I put the idea in his head to cancel the show.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (Nwg0u)

529 But what if he's just RickRolling you?
Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (aRUb

So fucking what? The GOP has been butt raping me for decades with poor Rick's head. As Hillary would say, "What difference does it make?"

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (4ng05)

530 Aren't nevertrumpers happy with Pence either?

(of course no one knows what he said now because of Cruz's principles)

Posted by: Pam at July 21, 2016 05:24 PM (cF0hS)


I have no problem with praising Pence when he says or does anything that warrants it.

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (vBeA5)

531 521 >>>494 OT but I'm watching Stranger Things on Netflix. There's some obviously derivative stuff but so far it's pretty tight and I'm enjoying it.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (0mRoj)


Could you include more Winona-specific detail? Outfits, cleavage, lips, eyes, how she moves, etc...

Thanks in advance!!!
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (2gKX/)

Uh...dressed like a frumpy single mom from the Midwest, eyes puffy from crying over her missing son. And occasionally running in terror.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (0mRoj)

532 your saying shooting yourself in the head multiple times and moving away from the spot you did it is "convenient"
Posted by: Zombie Vince Foster

Give yourself credit, you also shot yourself with 2 different caliber guns, then got rid of one. That's dedication.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (UPYhp)

533
I don't personally dislike any poster here. Whether I agree with them or not. I'd have a beer with any of y'all.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 05:33 PM (3C84c)

Same here. There's plenty of Progressive scum that hang out in other places that I loathe. The Headquarters is a well appreciated oasis from those cesspits. I do get a teeny bit frustrated at times by some comments, but, I'm kind of a grumpy bastard when I don't have enough bacon in the morning.

Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (d6TTt)

534
The bittersweet funny thing about the nevertrump GOPe is that they brought on the Trump nomination by being feckless elitards.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (ODxAs)

535 "For those who are still unsure about voting for Trump -

Just imagine inauguration day and Trump giving a speech like only he can give...then imagine Obama being forced to sit there and take it. Obama will be forced to hear Trump muse about big walls, about America being fabulous, about Mexican gangsters, etc. in one of the most politically incorrect speeches in American history.

Obama will just have to sit there, not say a word, and to end his presidency like that...it would be almost Shakespearean!

Is that not worth voting for Trump? Is that not worth the price of admission for a chance to see Obama off the way he deserves?
Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (KhJh"

Hmmm....you may be on to something. I don't like Trump, but that fantasy was delicious....!

Concepts like this might be more persuasive than what's currently being tried.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (8048L)

536 Yes, that's disturbing. I think there's a clothing company called "Juicy" that places their name on the rump area of a lot of girl's clothing. Worse is the "Prosti-tot" clothing for the tween girls.

----------------------------

yes thank you for the reference. nothing says "predator" more than designing a slutty line of clothes for underage girls

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (/CIN4)

537 Do we want to elect Trump as president if by the time the election
rolls around, he turns out to be worse than Hillary, that his positions
might be written by Bernie Sanders? How can you ask someone to vote for
Trump at that point?


Your question is reasonable, but the answer is that Trump is a bit of a mystery, whereas Hillary is a known commodity. She's been in the public eye for 25 years, and has never deviated from her core principles of corruption and lying. With Trump, we aren't sure if he's the old model or the new one. Given the choice between putting a shotgun in my mouth or playing Russian Roulette, which do you think I'll choose?

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (LAe3v)

538 "Krauthammer says: 'What Cruz delivered was the longest suicide note in
American political history and this morning he added an addendum.'"

That's Dr. K, who was smitten with Barack Obama in 2008.

Posted by: torquewrench at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (noWW6)

539 People on both sides say they want the same things

----------

I simply don't think that is true. We probably want some of the same things, but not completely. I understand that coalitions have to be made and each side should get something (or at least feel like it got something), but there are some pretty clear divisions.

In the end, I think a base (or portions of the base) that are revolting is good for the party as a whole.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (gmeXX)

540 I will vote for trump then get very angry, consider punching out the ballot box, and then leave.

How the fuck did we get here?

Posted by: Former mass resident at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (labbd)

541 Well, you don't seem to need an ID to cross the border.///

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (xVgrA)

542 The pincher runs out during commercials and tweaks the nips.





Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 05:17 PM (QM5S2)



Is that an actual thing?

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:20 PM (3JA/M)



J-Lo's Nipple Tweaker http://lifeisajoke.com/pictures429_html.htm

Posted by: Grover's at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (XVv7L)

You are not getting me to fall for clicking a link on this subject, Grover's:-P It might scar me for life.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (3JA/M)

543 >>>Uh...dressed like a frumpy single mom from the Midwest, eyes puffy from crying over her missing son. And occasionally running in terror.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (0mRoj)

:::rummages around for jerksock:::

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (2gKX/)

544 From a human standpoint, this election is soul-draining and spirit crushing. There are days where it saps me of my will to care, to dream, even to live anything more than a moribund, nominal 'life.'

From a Poli-Sci aspect, it's fascinating. Regardless of who wins, I think we're in for a long-overdue party realignment.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (kumBu)

545 It was a plurality decision with no majority opinion.



Any opinion like that, I don't care if it's about beekeeping, is a hot mess of dog shit on fire.


Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits


so all the other states that presently have voter ID (like Ohio where I live), do the same thing about providing alternate picture ID to non-drivers.

the logic escapes me. totally. It's a made up decision. The judges decided they would invalidate the voter ID law in Texas, and looked for a stupid escape hatch.

another fact indicating our country, as a whole, is dogshit on fire.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (RFeQD)

546 Uh...dressed like a frumpy single mom from the Midwest, eyes puffy from crying over her missing son. And occasionally running in terror.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (0mRoj)

Yeah, she is not exactly Grace Kelly in Rear Window.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (3ZoRf)

547 That's Dr. K, who was smitten with Barack Obama in 2008.

----------------------------

stand up Chuck, take a bow!!

Posted by: Joe Biden at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (/CIN4)

548 >>>Uh...dressed like a frumpy single mom from the Midwest, eyes puffy from crying over her missing son. And occasionally running in terror.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (0mRoj)

Wait, you said single??? MUST WATCH!!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (2gKX/)

549 Could you include more Winona-specific detail? Outfits, cleavage, lips, eyes, how she moves, etc...

Thanks in advance!!!
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (2gKX/)


-----------------


She plays a mother on the verge of neurosis because her son is missing. Very plain appearance, but she does a decent job with the part.

Posted by: Soona at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (Fmupd)

550 221 Hillary's pick is near.

Next comes the roll.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (dkHoZ)

551 Well We should't despair... There's always a chance someone will drop a house on Hillary...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (O2RFr)

552 Either him or Al Greene.

Posted by: Soona at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (Fmupd)
=========================================

Oh, I like Al Green. Is he dead, or is that Marvin Gaye?

Posted by: grammie winger at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (dFi94)

553 When did your mother stop beating you with her dildo?
---
when he was born... now he just licks it clean for her.
Posted by: redc1c4

----

Is that the origin of THIS guy?


http://i.___ur.com/h37vrwU.jpg

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (aFQtB)

554 534

The bittersweet funny thing about the nevertrump GOPe is that they brought on the Trump nomination by being feckless elitards.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (ODxAs)

I disagree. It's a gullible, blind hope, with a chewy center of juvenile "I'll show you!!" that brought on the Trump nomination. Just my opinion...others may feel differently.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (aRUb8)

555 That's Dr. K, who was smitten with Barack Obama in 2008.

--------

The same Dr. K who used to support campaign disclosure laws until he surprisingly discovered that they were used as a political weapons.

He's a smart guy, but he's not infallible.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (gmeXX)

556 The bittersweet funny thing about the nevertrump GOPe is that they brought on the Trump nomination by being feckless elitards.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (ODxAs)

Pleeeease, don't throw us into THAT brier patch!?!?!

Posted by: Br'er GOPe at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (3JA/M)

557 551 221 Hillary's pick is near.

-----------------------

like your nose?

Posted by: Hillary! at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (/CIN4)

558 Aren't nevertrumpers happy with Pence either?

--------------------------------------
No. He backed down over "religious freedom" instead of going down in flames so not conservative enough. In fact he is not much more conservative than Hillary. He also said JFK and the Dr. MLK, Jr. were his childhood heroes. Another liberal Democrat running as a Republican - just like Trump.

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (NUqwG)

559 I'm so old that i remember when the editors of National Review understood that "who says A must say B".

Now they like to pretend that #NeverTrump has nothing to do with increasing the chances of President Hillary.

Posted by: craig henry at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (Dhac1)

560 I just have to believe that at least half of the anti-Trump voices on this blog are astro-turfers. If they're not, then yeah, let the beast be elected and let's get this shit over with.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (4ng05)

561 Voting is an individual activity.

An election is a societal activity.

Just as with (say for example) cholesterol levels. The data regarding increased risk of heart attack comes from population based statistical analysis and is very difficult to apply to individual patients. The converse also applies, that is to say, an individual's response to any given treatment does not predict the group results.

I think the same concept can be applied to politics. All of the posturing by individuals to declare, "I'm going to vote for candidate XXX" is ultimately pretty meaningless. At the end of the day the result will be the summation of all the individual actions that take place on Nov. 8.

All of this preliminary stuff is just signaling and largely vain attempts to "move the needle" by commenting on a blog.

I propose a new term. Just as the singular of data is anecdotal, perhaps we should call declarations of 'who I'm voting for' to be:


...anecvotal!

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (NeFrd)

562 Nice position, Ace. And you only had to finally
torpedo for good your relationship with some of your fellow bloggers to
come to it.



Take your bow.

Posted by: Vyce at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (tPt6Q)
=======================================

That's kind of mean.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (dFi94)

563 Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (LAe3v)

Like it or not, that is one reason many CEO's choice of poison is Clinton. Business hates unpredictability more than anything. They can adjust if they know what they have to adjust for.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (HnB/8)

564
the logic escapes me. totally. It's a made up decision. The judges decided they would invalidate the voter ID law in Texas, and looked for a stupid escape hatch.

another fact indicating our country, as a whole, is dogshit on fire.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (RFeQD)

The rule of law is only enforced now when it favors the progressive scum.

There needs to be a widespread rebellion against as much Fed law as possible.

Posted by: Country Boy at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (nW3Ow)

565 >>> Adults accept the consequences of their choices.

This is a great post.

Thank you.

Posted by: franksalterego at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (Cd+Fa)

566 Now I think I'll go back to limericks.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (NeFrd)

567 514
For those who are still unsure about voting for Trump -



Just imagine inauguration day and Trump giving a speech like only he
can give...then imagine Obama being forced to sit there and take it.
Obama will be forced to hear Trump muse about big walls, about America
being fabulous, about Mexican gangsters, etc. in one of the most
politically incorrect speeches in American history.



Obama will just have to sit there, not say a word, and to end his presidency like that...it would be almost Shakespearean!



Is that not worth voting for Trump? Is that not worth the price of admission for a chance to see Obama off the way he deserves?



Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:35 PM (KhJh

====or, will he continue to take his opportunities to shit on more repubs and do that instead?

Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (iRJ+A)

568 Gary "Jack booted thugs should compel jewish bakers to bake Nazi cakes" Johnson.

So...that's going to be your protest vote?

Um..OK. Hope your ego is adequately soothed.

Posted by: Max Power at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (q177U)

569 J-Lo's Nipple Tweaker http://lifeisajoke.com/pictures429_html.htm


Wow. That's a job?

I went to grad school and did everything they told me and it was all lies and just wrong.

Someone else gets to be J Lo's nipple tweaker.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (1xUj/)

570 another bit from another Chelsea email: tell me if you believe any of this:

My mom is compassionate, kind, and hardworking -- when I was growing up,
it seemed like she could do anything. She'd spend all day in court
litigating on behalf of children and families, then come home and ask me
over dinner what I learned in school, what my favorite part of my day
was, and what I hoped would happen tomorrow. And then she would sit with
me while I did my homework or practiced the piano or worked on my
science project.

Posted by: Satan, taking a leetle break at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (qSIlh)

571 Given the choice between putting a shotgun in my mouth or playing Russian Roulette, which do you think I'll choose?




Posted by: pep

When Robert Downey jr was a serious drug addict, he said that the taste of gunmetal in his mouth was sometimes pretty good. He was self-destructive, but he got over it.

Not accusing you, but there are people out there that are self-destructive, and like the taste of gun metal in their mouth.

When my BiL was very sick about 28 years ago, my sister had to fight with him a couple times to get the shotgun out of his mouth. He was that depressed.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (RFeQD)

572 >>>516 All of us here actually do agree on way more than we disagree on.
Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (B48dK)

Sure, well, except for those Miracle Whip assholes...total scum...

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (2gKX/)

573 I will vote for trump then get very angry, consider punching out the ballot box, and then leave.

How the fuck did we get here?

Posted by: Former mass resident at July 21, 2016 05:40 PM (labbd)


Because people are very angry (with good reason), but angry people do things like punch ballot boxes.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (wB8Tg)

574 Yes, that's disturbing. I think there's a clothing
company called "Juicy" that places their name on the rump area of a lot
of girl's clothing. Worse is the "Prosti-tot" clothing for the tween
girls.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (8048L)

And that other line that puts "PINK" on everything.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (P/kVC)

575 This Winona person being talked about, who is she exactly? Serious question.

Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (d6TTt)

576 My mom is compassionate, kind, and hardworking -- when I was growing up,
it seemed like she could do anything. She'd spend all day in court
litigating on behalf of children and families, then come home and ask me
over dinner what I learned in school, what my favorite part of my day
was, and what I hoped would happen tomorrow. And then she would sit with


That's barf worthy...
me while I did my homework or practiced the piano or worked on my
science project.

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (O2RFr)

577 Now I think I'll go back to limericks.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM


Go on...

Posted by: A man from Nantucket at July 21, 2016 05:45 PM (bzd8I)

578 >>>539 Nice position, Ace. And you only had to finally torpedo for good your relationship with some of your fellow bloggers to come to it.

Take your bow.

...

actually, for the sake of some cobloggers, I did take a harder edge on Trump. I accommodated them.

Now Trump is won. What shall I do now? Shall I campaign for Hillary, as they're doing, to keep them happy? Even though they quit the blog six months ago?

Exactly how far am I to extend myself to accommodate cobloggers who don't like Trump? Should I just become a straight-up I'm With Her blog?


Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:45 PM (dciA+)

579 >>as awful as obama is, i don't know of a single convenient suicide in his circle; hillary on the other hand...

Well.....

Lt. Quarles Harris
Donald Young
Larry Bland
Nate Spencer

Posted by: Lizzy at July 21, 2016 05:45 PM (NOIQH)

580 I see people are preparing their scapegoat in the event of a Trump loss.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:45 PM (HnB/8)

581 549 >>>Uh...dressed like a frumpy single mom from the Midwest, eyes puffy from crying over her missing son. And occasionally running in terror.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (0mRoj)

Wait, you said single??? MUST WATCH!!!
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:41 PM (2gKX/)

Dude, you have issues.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:45 PM (0mRoj)

582 Well, you don't seem to need an ID to cross the border.///




They don't. My gringo ass does.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (3C84c)

583
Let's all take a dip and cool off:

https://goo.gl/4b9bmF

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (iQIUe)

584 Sure, well, except for those Miracle Whip assholes...total


scum...


And people who put ketchup on hot dogs...

Me

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (O2RFr)

585 Ace,
You are a fighter and a patriot. Please don't leave us.

Posted by: redridinghood at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (7GQM/)

586 >>516 All of us here actually do agree on way more than we disagree on.
Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (B48dK)

Sure, well, except for those Miracle Whip assholes...total scum...
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (2gKX/)

And the War of Northern aggression, and longbows, and Star Wars and

Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (d6TTt)

587 "yes thank you for the reference. nothing says "predator" more than designing a slutty line of clothes for underage girls
Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (/CIN4)"

Sorry to the other readers for the off-topic vent, but this really irks me.

It horrifies me that people buy this crud for their kids or allow them to buy it. What normal parent allows their underage daughter to be dressed provocatively?!

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (8048L)

588 Concepts like this might be more persuasive than what's currently being tried.
Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (8048L)

------------------------------------------------------------

Better yet - Trump is the guy who forced Obama to show his birth certificate.

Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (KhJh8)

589 This Winona person being talked about, who is she exactly? Serious question.

Posted by: tubal


Winona Judd. Banana Hammock is in love with her.

Send him pix and stuff if you have time.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (VY8H5)

590 People on both sides say they want the same things

-
I used to believe that. I thought we all wanted a strong and prosperous America. I no longer believe that.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (Nwg0u)

591 I predict that Trump will win, and will end up being a better president than many expected.

Posted by: Chris M at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (k3w9p)

592 521
>>>494 OT but I'm watching Stranger Things on Netflix. There's
some obviously derivative stuff but so far it's pretty tight and I'm
enjoying it.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2016 05:32 PM (0mRoj)





Could you include more Winona-specific detail? Outfits, cleavage, lips, eyes, how she moves, etc...



Thanks in advance!!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:36 PM (2gKX/)

I'm three episodes in, and I agree with Insomniac, and I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there is no sexy time with Winona. She plays the mother of a kid who has mysteriously gone missing, and spends most of the time acting half crazy, and is mostly a frumpy mess.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (xmQSf)

593 Trump is going to win in a blow out and will pleasantly surprise all of his honest naysayers (the dishonest ones being pissed at his successes.)

Posted by: oddnot does fret and with reason at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (g1MTt)

594 Exactly how far am I to extend myself to accommodate cobloggers who don't like Trump? Should I just become a straight-up I'm With Her blog?

------------

I don't see why there can't be differences of opinion from the COBs. But maybe others don't see it that way.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (gmeXX)

595 That's Dr. K, who was smitten with Barack Obama in 2008.


Posted by: torquewrench at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (noWW6)

Thats also thr Dr K that called the repubs giving in on a spending package that gave Obama and the Dems MORE than they asked for.."A brilliant chess move".

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (aRUb8)

596 Do we want to elect Trump as president if by the time the election
rolls around, he turns out to be worse than Hillary, that his positions
might be written by Bernie Sanders? How can you ask someone to vote for
Trump at that point?


Your question is reasonable, but the answer is that Trump is a bit of a mystery, whereas Hillary is a known commodity. She's been in the public eye for 25 years, and has never deviated from her core principles of corruption and lying. With Trump, we aren't sure if he's the old model or the new one. Given the choice between putting a shotgun in my mouth or playing Russian Roulette, which do you think I'll choose?

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 05:39 PM (LAe3v)

I agree with everything you said except the first sentence. How can that question even be on the same planet as reasonable? Is it reasonable not to cross the street if you need to because you might get hit by a bus? That question wasn't just unreasonable, it was irrational.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (4ng05)

597 Winona Judd. Banana Hammock is in love with her.

Really? I thought it was Winona Ryder...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (O2RFr)

598 Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:45 PM (dciA+)

Don't become what you are railing against.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (HnB/8)

599 Better yet - Trump is the guy who forced Obama to show his birth certificate.
Posted by: William Eaton

----

Well, forced him to show A birth certificate, anyway.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (aFQtB)

600 589 This Winona person being talked about, who is she exactly? Serious question.

Posted by: tubal

Winona Judd. Banana Hammock is in love with her.

Send him pix and stuff if you have time.



Judd? FML. I thought it was Ryder.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (3C84c)

601 525 510
as awful as obama is, i don't know of a single convenient suicide in his circle; hillary on the other hand...

-----------------------------

your saying shooting yourself in the head multiple times and moving away from the spot you did it is "convenient"

Posted by: Zombie Vince Foster at July 21, 2016 05:37 PM (/CIN4)

++++

I guess it depends upon your perspective.

Posted by: Hillary Rodham! Clinton at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (R+30W)

602 575 This Winona person being talked about, who is she exactly? Serious question.
Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (d6TTt)

Winona Ryder, her IMDB page:

http://tinyurl.com/jx94hx2

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (3ZoRf)

603 I appreciate the cobloggers and I thank them for their aid, but many have resigned. I appreciated their helping me, but I'm not going to adopt THEIR POLITICAL PREFERENCES just because they did me a good turn.

I think Hillary Clinton would be a terrible president. I am not supporting her. I am not going to do anything to help her become president.

The #NeverTrump crowd-- big on Twitter where "thinking" in short, emotive bursts is the mode -- is in fact pushing for Hillary Clinton.

I refuse. Period.

I refuse vigorously.

I refuse viciously.

I refuse in every way I am capable of refusing.

No, I am not helping Hillary win the white house to keep good relations with former cobloggers.

I think it's fairly brazen to even ask that of me.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (dciA+)

604 Sure, well, except for those Miracle Whip assholes...total scum...

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (2gKX/)

Ha ha, look at the little man trying to act like he matters. Fight the power!!!

Posted by: Hellman's Haters at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (LAe3v)

605 orry to the other readers for the off-topic vent, but this really irks me.

It horrifies me that people buy this crud for their kids or allow them to buy it. What normal parent allows their underage daughter to be dressed provocatively?!

--------------------------

with the way society is heading, which is straight off the cliff, it's not so hard to imagine the type of parents.

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (/CIN4)

606 Ace, you just said what I've been trying to say for the past month, in a far more articulate fashion. For good or ill, we're pretty much stuck with the guy, and nobody with a functional conscience wants Felonious H (AKA Hillary Clinton) in the Oval Office.

It is not due to a discrepancy or defect in my morality that I support Trump for President, but as a product of long consideration. I came to this conclusion after Trump sewed up the delegate count. He won by due process, and that win has legitimacy. Trying to overthrow that win would have sundered the party and shredded its legitimacy, leaving the replacement candidate trying to win an election with a ceiling of 65% of the Republican vote. The numbers of NeverTrump never added up.

We may have to retreat on a few fronts in order to keep from losing the
war. In that context, electing Trump is the only acceptable moral solution given the choices facing us. His election will keep Hillary from appointing another Democrat ideologue such as Kagan or Sotomayor to the court, which would end the Rule of Law forever. Trump will most likely be a disgraceful clown show. That's still better than finishing the Republic's slide into tyranny without even a whimper.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (J+mig)

607
That's kind of mean.


Posted by: grammie winger

That's the fashion today, ma' am.

When I was in a fraternity in college (for a little while), every once in a while we would have a "rave" meal, where arguments would break out, and turn into a food fight.

Great for a bunch of horny guys blowing off steam. Think of this as a rave-blog post. Everybody can be allowed to be mean, and blow off steam. It's happening a lot today. The mean season.

Nobody better be mean to Grammie Winger, though. She's the best.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (RFeQD)

608 599 Better yet - Trump is the guy who forced Obama to show his birth certificate.
Posted by: William Eaton

----

Well, forced him to show A birth certificate, anyway.
Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 05:47 PM (aFQtB)



More than the media did.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 21, 2016 05:49 PM (3C84c)

609 I don't get it with these constant bipolar posts. You have one anti-trump post and then follow it with an anti-nevertrump post, and somehow this is better? I understand legitimate criticism, but I don't see how it's morally any better to be a nevertrumper merely half of the time, while saying yeah I'll still vote for Trump even though he's a whacko authoritarian nutbird who basically raped Cruz's wife with his mind, but other than that totally on board the Trump train!

Wow, that's really going to help Trump win this November.

I remember I did NOT want Romney to win, but once the nomination was over I withheld from overtly criticizing him from that point on, knowing attitudes like that would hurt his chances, even though I couldn't stand him and thought he was a liberal shitstain.

Now it seems like butthurt "former" nevertrumpers who grudgingly admit it's time to unite and vote against Hillary can't at least do the BARE MINIMUM and stop their endless emotive attacks on Trump.

All that energy wasted on bashing Trump that could be better served by bashing Hillary nonstop, 24/7 until it starts to sink into the dense heads of the LIV.

If you don't like Trump, fine, but if you don't want Hillary to win either, the very least you can do is keep your powder dry and stop acting like Red State / Hot Air and other shit nevertrump sites half the time.

Posted by: Whut?? at July 21, 2016 05:49 PM (PvW5a)

610 Ignoramus predicts:

Trump will give a strong speech tonight after a rousing Ivanka lead-in.

#neverTrump becomes even more irrelevant.

In a week, Ted who?

Whoever Hillary picks as her VP won't help and may hurt.

Trump will live tweet through the Democratic convention, with hilarious results.

Next set of polls will show continuing Trump momentum.

When elected, Trump will be a Rudy-like pragmatist who will get a lot done. Ryan and McConnell will be speed bumps, and hopefully not obstacles.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 05:49 PM (r1fLd)

611 No. He backed down over "religious freedom" instead
of going down in flames so not conservative enough. In fact he is not
much more conservative than Hillary. He also said JFK and the Dr. MLK,
Jr. were his childhood heroes. Another liberal Democrat running as a
Republican - just like Trump.

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (NUqwG)

Or, more honestly, he ran as a conservative and governed as anything but.


He had already won on religious freedom, Indiana's RFRA had already been passed and all he had to do was sign it. Instead he caved like a pussy to the gay activists picketing his office and insisted that the legislature come back into session to gut the law.
He also expanded Medicaid, started Indiana's very ow state run news agency and never met a big government solution that he didn't think was better than a basket full of kittens.

Posted by: Br'er GOPe at July 21, 2016 05:49 PM (3JA/M)

612 Winona Ryder, her IMDB page:

http://tinyurl.com/jx94hx2

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (3ZoRf)

Oh. Thanks. I honestly thought she had died a while back.

Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 05:49 PM (d6TTt)

613 Trump will live tweet through the Democratic convention, with hilarious results.

This one We can count on...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (O2RFr)

614 561 I just have to believe that at least half of the anti-Trump voices on this blog are astro-turfers. If they're not, then yeah, let the beast be elected and let's get this shit over with.
Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (4ng05)


--------------


Just considering the events of the last month, a lot of shit can go down between now and November. Some of these people are going to change their minds to Trump being a better alternative. They may not say it publically, but they will at the ballot box.

Posted by: Soona at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (UU0o1)

615 ====or, will he continue to take his opportunities to shit on more repubs and do that instead?
Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (iRJ+A)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Not likely, in fact Trump has not been that much as of late except with a few holdouts.

No he won't miss an chance to big time Obama.

Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (KhJh8)

616 I appreciate the cobloggers and I thank them for their aid, but many have resigned.

-----------

Did they resign over this or for other reasons? Are some upset when you post a pro-Trump post? Are you unwilling to let them post a NeverTrump post?

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (gmeXX)

617 Ideologically speaking, I'm closer to Rand Paul/Cruz, but I'm supporting Trump because fuckitol let's win this thing.

Posted by: willy at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (Ffw22)

618 Gary "Jack booted thugs should compel jewish bakers to bake Nazi cakes" Johnson.

Posted by: Max Power at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (q177U)


Oh, I'll make you an authentic Kristallnacht cake...

*adds shards of glass*

Posted by: A Jewish Baker at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (vBeA5)

619 And people who put ketchup on hot dogs...

Me



You know, we always fight about that and never fight about whether hot dogs should be all beef or beef and pork.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (1xUj/)

620 Lt. Quarles Harris
Donald Young
Larry Bland
Nate Spencer


Posted by: Lizzy at July 21, 2016 05:45 PM (NOIQH)
...and a couple gay "friends with benefits"?

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (aRUb8)

621 Nobody better be mean to Grammie Winger, though. She's the best.


Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM[/]i

Or Fen, 'cause she will cut a bitch.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (bzd8I)

622 Finally, all those who stayed home because McCain and Romney were not pure enough for you:

Have you enjoyed the eight years of King Obama?

Have you profited?

Is your health insurance better?

Are you OK with the fact that it's super easy for your daughters/wives to get molested in the ladies room, dressing rooms and locker rooms?

Have you made peace with the fact that as a society we can "absorb" endless terrorist attacks?

Do you care that illegals are getting more welfare than americans?

How has not voting worked out for you personally?


Posted by: Mad As Hell, You Know The Rest at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (tvyXw)

623 You know, we always fight about that and never fight about whether hot dogs should be all beef or beef and pork.

Beef! Kosher beef...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (O2RFr)

624 "Exactly how far am I to extend myself to accommodate cobloggers who
don't like Trump? Should I just become a straight-up I'm With Her blog?"

Why don't you just stick to providing honest opinions Ace? Why does there need to be a political motive behind it all? Pro-Trump/Anti-Trump, who cares? Just speak your mind and call it as you see it -- but don't get mad and self-righteous when others speak their minds too.

Posted by: Captain Kirock at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (nKBkE)

625 619 Congratulations,you just opened up a new Front.

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (B48dK)

626 Yup. Play time is over.

It's Trump or the Hildebeast. Pay your money, get your ticket for the ride.

I don't know how Trump is going to govern. He might surprise us all and get good advisers and listen to them. I do know how Hillary is going to govern and she will try to tear down her enemies: me.

I wanted Ted, I'll settle for Trump.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (s2cys)

627 I just assume that the professional #NeverTrump pundits are all paid by the Chamber of Commerce. I'll need to see complete financial statements from these pundits before I change my mind.

Posted by: scrood at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (3b9U4)

628 >>>I don't see why there can't be differences of opinion from the COBs. But maybe others don't see it that way.

i've never told a cob he couldn't blog his opinion due to his opinion. (I asked Weird Dave to cool it with hot button topics on weekends, but that's a timing thing.)

The only person I told to slow it down was RDBrewer. RDBrewer was filling the sidebar with pro-trump stuff. When some cobs pointed this out, I told RDB to limit himself to once a day, because his agitation for Trump in the sidebar was overwhelming everyone else's agitation, including mine. (And I was for Cruz.)

So the one guy I said "Don't post so much of your political opinions" was a Trump guy.

I've never told anyone they can't post anti-Trump stuff.

But apparently some think that I should not have my own rights to post what I think here.

Go figure, it's the shitty, smug #NeverTrump c*nts like Vyce who think this.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (dciA+)

629 604 Sure, well, except for those Miracle Whip assholes...total scum...

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (2gKX/)
Ha ha, look at the little man trying to act like he matters. Fight the power!!!
Posted by: Hellman's Haters at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (LAe3v)

And these two posts pretty much encapsulate most of our debate here lately.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 05:51 PM (3ZoRf)

630 Now they like to pretend that #NeverTrump has nothing to do with increasing the chances of President Hillary.

Posted by: at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (Dhac1)

Just as hoping for Stalin to lose in WWII has nothing to do with Hitler winning.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 21, 2016 05:52 PM (P/kVC)

631 "534
The bittersweet funny thing about the nevertrump GOPe is that they brought on the Trump nomination by being feckless elitards.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (ODxAs)"

I'm not sure that's totally accurate. The NeverTrump people are mostly serious movement conservatives. They're against Trump because they're really into conservative principles and find his lax observation of them unacceptable. The movement conservatives weren't happy with the GOP elite ducking battles on Obamacare, the deficit, etc.

You can certainly fairly blame the more elitist party members that ignored the grass roots and thought movement conservatives were icky. In my opinion, they aggravated the base enough that the overreaction has landed us with Trump. Some of those are also in the NeverTrump camp, but I don't think they're the majority.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:52 PM (8048L)

632 Winona Judd. Banana Hammock is in love with her


Dude!

Posted by: Winona Ryder at July 21, 2016 05:52 PM (1xUj/)

633 Falstaff vs. Lady Macbeth?

I'll have to go with Falstaff.

As an aside, I'll curse the world that forces me choose Falstaff. That's a whole different matter.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 05:52 PM (aFQtB)

634 610 Ignoramus predicts:

Trump will give a strong speech tonight after a rousing Ivanka lead-in.

#neverTrump becomes even more irrelevant.

In a week, Ted who?

Whoever Hillary picks as her VP won't help and may hurt.

Trump will live tweet through the Democratic convention, with hilarious results.

Next set of polls will show continuing Trump momentum.

When elected, Trump will be a Rudy-like pragmatist who will get a lot done. Ryan and McConnell will be speed bumps, and hopefully not obstacles.

--------------------

and continue to live rent free in Obama's head, and turn hin into a stuttering fucktard

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 05:52 PM (/CIN4)

635 GHWB increased taxes. I voted for him. GWB wanted to expand the federal govt. I voted for him. John McCain was a poser. I voted for him. Romney is a RHINO. I voted for him. See the trend. There will never be a perfect candidate. Reagan is dead. Do the right thing. Get it morons?

Posted by: cumulonimbus at July 21, 2016 05:53 PM (bx5ka)

636 You know, we always fight about that and never fight about whether hot dogs should be all beef or beef and pork.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM


Why...you Jewish?

Posted by: Vincent Vega at July 21, 2016 05:53 PM (bzd8I)

637 You're an atheist, you don't believe in God. Therefore, we're all equal in deciding our moral responsibility, unless we can objectively agree what "moral responsibility" is outside of a paradigm that defines what the view takes as "moral responsibility".

All you can say is that you're going to blame me, who is voting for Trump, if Hillary wins because I said something negative about Trump that turned somebody off about Trump. And blame is also an free forum, which the masses generally win.

Posted by: Axeman at July 21, 2016 05:53 PM (2mC6G)

638 Winona Judd

She's that Ginger full figured Gal...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:53 PM (O2RFr)

639 I agree with the NRO cruise idea if Trump wins.

Posted by: Eli Cash at July 21, 2016 05:53 PM (lbQz4)

640 @489...A Wall.
-A First Lady proud of this country
-Hopefully will tear down the new muzzie iron fence in front of the WH built by slaves...it is hideous.
-Firings and overhaul of VA
-Generals making decisions for our military vs valjar
-SCOTUS

I could go on, but you get the picture vs the fat and saggy Haggard Harridan of Hell.

Or at least give a hoot about Border Patrol guys and gals...who have bean-bag bullets or some crap.

I pray for the safety and protection of Mr. Trump, his family,his security, the police, our military and our country. Every day.

I invite you all to my champagne drunk-fest on the day he takes office and we see the back and butt of our wonderful Dear Leader, JEF of all trades, lover of Alinsky and blow. I was really looking forward to his weepy exit on Marine Won, but, with his staying in DC, guess he will roar off in the Beast (yes,with the other beast). They make me want to harf daily.

If I am sort of sane by this day in January I will be grateful.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen at July 21, 2016 05:54 PM (kBYYb)

641 435
Posted by: docweasel at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (hv5Z3)



So you're saying you shouldn't have voted for Romney and McCain and followed you conscience?==============


No, I'm saying I ate a steaming pile of dogshit to TRY to block obama and all his excesses. Now they can damn well eat some shit to block hillary, and if they won't, then fuck them.

Posted by: docweasel at July 21, 2016 05:54 PM (NtCOi)

642 Both candidates if/when elected, will make poor decisions. I do not trust Trump in a crisis. For all good bravado, he has no principles other than self interest. I'm not sure if he'll seek to build up his reputation while the nation crumbles, actively abuse power for gain, or just completely screw up because he didn't get the gravity of the situation.

Trump strikes me as the kind who once elected and is being pilloried by the press so over the world, he'll cave to save his ego and legacy. He'll turn on the conservatives in an instant.

So he's no different than Hillary. In fact, I still maintain he's a spoiler plant specifically for Hillary. The Clintons know how to get power, and they played the Republicans when Bill got into office and are doing it now too.

Posted by: GSO at July 21, 2016 05:54 PM (Mpb1J)

643 I see two driving forces:

1. Trump won contra the predictions and machinations of the conservative intelligentsia. That hurts their credibility, so they're lashing out.

2. They're also making a Pascal's wager, heavily tilted towards a Hillary win - if it happens, they get to say I told you and stake their claim as the ones who should be guiding the movement. All while, as ace claims, taking no responsibility for Trump's loss.

For me, it was just that I thought Cruz was the best candidate and some of Trump's attacks on him were scummy and uncalled for. But I was able, with time, to get over it. The best thing for this country is a Trump win, so I'll fight for a Trump win, regardless of my personal feelings about the man.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 05:54 PM (kumBu)

644 Ace - I've always wanted you to do a few back and forth posts similar to your podcast with Shapiro. Point/Counter on whatever the topic.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:54 PM (gmeXX)

645 Awright, my two cents:

Hillary hates me personally.

Trump most likely doesn't.

For me, it's really that simple.

And thanks for this post, ace, it needed to be said.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez_and_the_dogs at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (gUoN4)

646 Either the virus I have/had is making me lose vision or font changed. halp

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (kBYYb)

647 ace, let me start with where I agree:

There are an astounding number or absolutely idiotic simpletons that are incapable of critical thought outside of mob mentality who are so caught up in whatever nonsense talking point they have been fed by social media, traditional media and/ or their own complete inability to separate fact from fiction and acknowledge that their lot in life is 100% due to their own failings and judgments. What do these people do? They flock to Twitter and Facebook to copy and paste shit that they don't understand in the least so that they can feel like they're doing something useful and part of something greater than the pathetic shambles that is their life.

I agree that any choice, including the decision to make no choice, invariably has a consequence.

I absolutely disagree that any person is responsible for the failings of another. I do not agree that elections are a binary choice, despite the obvious reality and flaws of our two party system.

Why? Election have become (for a long time, this isn't new) a choice of "Who do I think will save me?" I think that this is a false choice. Elections in this country were never intended to choose a savior. The fundamentals that drove people to come to the New World, fight a rebellion for independence, and create a new form of government unlike anything the world had ever seen are entirely opposed to the idea of choosing a savior.

Elections are supposed to be about choosing a REPRESENTATIVE. On the federal level, the House was intended to represent your community, the Senate your state, and the President the country as a whole. The President primary job is chief diplomat and, otherwise, to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution". That's it. Appearing nowhere in the Presidential job description is, "Who is going to save me" or "Who is going to get us stuff" or "Who is going to punish people who offend me". Heck, there's almost nothing a President is supposed to do outside of serve as a final check and balance on the other branches from the perspective of our national interest... Chief Diplomat, remember? The President is not supposed to create jobs, save job, create infrastructure, ensure fairness, create programs, create laws, get laws passed... none of it.

In an election, I ask myself, "Does this person represent me as well as possible within the context of their proposed role?" If they do not, then the consequence of my choice is that I DO NOT HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE not I cede my vote to the imbecile that everyone is voting for.

Put more simply, to the binary concept:
- Is there a candidate who is running who I feel represents me as well as possible? If, I vote for that person.
- If not, I look for someone else. Others, rightfully, have a say in who else there is too choose from so it is likely that a person I support may be precluded from running. That is a consequence of our system. On the whole, I see it as a feature, not a bug. My opinion doesn't count for more than my neighbor's opinion and it is up to the nation, as a whole, to narrow down who represents the nation best when it comes to the President.
- If there is no one that I believe represents me, then my only remaining choice is to take responsibility for whatever I expected them to do onto myself.

There is a clever bit in the Constitution about this (that has been completely ignored and forgotten) that species that powers not granted to the Federal government are reserved to the states and the people themselves.

Last point: It is up to a candidate to prove to me that they deserve my vote. Their failure to do so does result in me voting for their opponent. Hillary is worse than Satan and should never occupy anything in her life again outside of a jail cell. That does not equate to "So I must support Trump".

Trump needs to earn my vote. To date, he has not. The consequence is that I don't have a horse in this race. The consequence of that is, whomever my neighbors elect, I am stuck with and I know for certain that neither of those choices are acceptable to me or will do anything to represent me in any way.

The result is, I am on my own.

There is another alternative. I cannot conceive of it happening but it is possible. What if everyone got so fed up that no one voted. What if the entire country said, "Fuck the lot of them" and just started being responsible for ourselves?

There's almost nothing I can do to bring that about. The vast majority of the country wants a dictator who will completely ignore the enumerated powers of the office, give them stuff, and save them.

Ok. I don't see that working out for anyone but, hey, it's allegedly still a free country. Here's a rope, go hang yourself.

Posted by: Damiano at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (71OEY)

648 I think it's fairly brazen to even ask that of me.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (dciA+)

I agree. You're voting your conscience. Thats good advice.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (aRUb8)

649 That's kind of mean.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (dFi94)

Vyce lives under a bridge and demands payment for passage across. Let's not talk about the warts on it's nose. They are not warts.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Get ur newz from chan elenvty!! at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (WVsWD)

650 When elected, Trump will be a Rudy-like pragmatist
who will get a lot done. Ryan and McConnell will be speed bumps, and
hopefully not obstacles.





Posted by: Ignoramus

If (a big IF) Trump is elected, he will really be more of a centrist, and govern pragmatically, as you say. I don't think he has any permanent political ideals, except pragmatism. This has a history in American politics (you can look it up), but it is, in the long run, not very attractive.

People will be unhappy with much of this, but the alternative of Hillary (which is an ugly likelihood based on Democrat machine cheating) is frankly too ghastly to contemplate. She will be much worse than most of us can imagine. Obama is lazy, stupid and incompetent. Hillary and her entourage will not be as lazy and careless as Obama.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (RFeQD)

651 >>Beef! Kosher beef...

Yes.


OK, now for the really important feud: Kayne and Kim K vs. Taylor Swift

Posted by: Lizzy at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (NOIQH)

652 I'm not sure that's totally accurate. The NeverTrump people are mostly serious movement conservatives. They're against Trump because they're really into conservative principles and find his lax observation of them unacceptable. The movement conservatives weren't happy with the GOP elite ducking battles on Obamacare, the deficit, etc.
Posted by: Jill v2


Yes, serious conservatives that are either impotent or uninterested in actually getting the GOP to become a conservative enterprise.

The GOP is either a dishonest organization or a failed one.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (VY8H5)

653 I think hard core conservatives (#Nevers are just the most hard core)are just outnumbered.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (bksJQ)

654 My mom is compassionate, kind, and hardworking -- when I was growing up,

it seemed like she could do anything. She'd spend all day in court

litigating on behalf of children and families, then come home and ask me

over dinner what I learned in school, what my favorite part of my day

was, and what I hoped would happen tomorrow. And then she would sit with

me while I did my homework or practiced the piano or worked on my

science project.


Posted by: Satan, taking a leetle break at July 21, 2016 05:44 PM (qSIlh)

And then Chelsea's fingers fell off for typing such lies.

Posted by: Br'er GOPe at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (3JA/M)

655 Anecdotally, my Target now has mixed gender dressing rooms.

Not sure about the bathrooms, but men and women and whatever are all in the same area with separate booths.

Posted by: Mad As Hell, You Know The Rest at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (tvyXw)

656 I appreciate the cobloggers and I thank them for their aid, but many have resigned. I appreciated their helping me, but I'm not going to adopt THEIR POLITICAL PREFERENCES just because they did me a good turn.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2016 05:48 PM (dciA+)


Who were the cobloggers?

Posted by: The Inquiring Hat at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (vBeA5)

657 Actually, I'm less embarrassed about voting for Trump than I was about voting for McCain.

Why wasn't there a NeverMcCain group? I don't recall one.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (aFQtB)

658 I saw J-Lo's Nipple Tweaker open for Vanilla Ice in '92 at the Winter Palace.

They did a duet of "Ice, Ice Baby"!

That really stood out in my memory.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (NeFrd)

659 off Br'er GOPe hat

Posted by: redbanzai at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (3JA/M)

660 OK, now for the really important feud: Kayne and Kim K vs. Taylor Swift

They can all take a flying leap, but on the I don't like meter... Kim and Kanye are worse...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (O2RFr)

661 And you can tell they didn't even read Ace's argument because they continue to think it is merely just not voting for either that Ace is talking about. They have taken on the left's way of arguing. Disregard the argument and create your own straw man that makes your point easier to swallow and helps you feel better about yourself.

Posted by: Gman at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (VXoTW)

662 You know, we always fight about that and never fight about whether hot dogs should be all beef or beef and pork.

Posted by: Bandersnatch


To say nothing of the whole circular vs. square cross section conundrum.


Also, someone awhile ago posted a clip of a negligee-clad Ms. Ryder descending stairs in a Dracula movie. There was flesh moving in all directions. I'd like to see that again.

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 05:57 PM (LAe3v)

663 Crap. Apologies for the the autocorrect failures and TL/ DR nature of my last post.

Posted by: Damiano at July 21, 2016 05:57 PM (71OEY)

664 man, people are really hard to please. indiana is sitting on a surplus, jobs, taxes cut, in an obama economy mind you with 20+% unemployment, and they are still whining over some BS kerfuffle that will go away as soon as obama leaves office. sad.

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (c6/9Q)

665 Yes, serious conservatives that are either impotent or uninterested in actually getting the GOP to become a conservative enterprise.

----------

I do think that is unfair. Jay Cost is a pretty vocal NeverTrumper. He has written a book on corruption, he wrote a proposal to modify the nomination system, was anti-Mitt.

He seems very interested in getting the GOP to be more conservative.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (gmeXX)

666 I've mentioned many times I almost went a #Never but Hillary will be the end.
Imagine the whole White house records vanishing away.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (bksJQ)

667

The AoS Story coming to you in Smell-O-Vision.

Girl by Girl....
Caress by Caress....
He fell deeper
in love -- deeper
in trouble --
until he
found this
terrifying way out....

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (iQIUe)

668 I just have to believe that at least half of the
anti-Trump voices on this blog are astro-turfers. If they're not, then
yeah, let the beast be elected and let's get this shit over with.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 05:42 PM (4ng05)

That would be a very complex operation to execute - it's not like one can just google up "conservative" "smart military" "open posting" and get results of where to troll.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (P/kVC)

669 What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (Ch0fq)

670 "588 Concepts like this might be more persuasive than what's currently being tried.
Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (8048L)

------------------------------------------------------------

Better yet - Trump is the guy who forced Obama to show his birth certificate.
Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:46 PM (KhJh"

hmmm....No, that's not visual enough for me.

How about imagining the look on Joe Biden's face if as VP he has to preside over the Senate's electoral college vote recording that Trump has won? [Even I felt a bit bad for Al Gore when he had to preside over the Senate when Bush was formally named the winner....]

Or the gritted teeth half-zombie expression on Clinton's face as she chokes out her concession speech?

....The cries and lamentations from various obnoxious Hollywood leftists as they realize Clinton has lost and stands a better chance of being REALLY investigated by the FBI for Clinton Foundation criminality than becoming the first female president?

Again, I despise Trump, but those images are really tempting.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (8048L)

671 So Ace are You gonna stay?

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 05:59 PM (O2RFr)

672 Hillary will be the end.
Imagine the whole White house records vanishing away.
Posted by: Skip

---

I wonder what horrible shit she and her hillbilly hubby left in the White House all those years ago that they want to go in and clean up...?

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 05:59 PM (aFQtB)

673 I think it's fairly brazen to even ask that of me.

Posted by: ace




Whoa! (I said that in my best Keanu Reeves voice).

I'm sorry about the interpersonal fallout. I don't know who you mean but I've met some of the cobs and they're good peeps.

At the end of the day they're both shitty choices. She is awful, he is horrible, or the other way around.

The people who care about you are important. Whoever fucks up this country more than the other is less so.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 05:59 PM (1xUj/)

674 >>>490 advocating the defeat of Hillary, with Trump being the necessary means
Posted by: The Political Hat at July 21, 2016 05:31 PM (vBeA5)

This sounds like a good distillation of Ace's stand. Also a good stand.

Posted by: m at July 21, 2016 05:59 PM (/7Lfc)

675 There is no way I am watching the Dim Convention. I watched when they booed God. That was enough for me.

I am sure it will be a smelly armpit of peace and lurve. Unless! There is a Sanders coup, but, nah.

That Waters guy interviewed a bunch of moonbats the other day protesting Mr. Trump. Mostly just protesting. The tranny was interesting in what he/she protested (note: I have no idea. Maybe vegans or kangaroos). Freak show, baby.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen at July 21, 2016 06:00 PM (kBYYb)

676 Seriously though can You imagine having to hear Hillary's shrill voice for 4/8 years?

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 06:00 PM (O2RFr)

677 Can we Make AOSHQ Great Again.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:00 PM (gmeXX)

678 This is so easy. Look at the choices and say to yourself ¨Would (fill in the blank) be subject to impeachment for high crimes and misdeamenors by members of their own party along with the opposition or would the candidates party and the media block such a constitutional correction.

Posted by: Minuteman at July 21, 2016 06:01 PM (A3b6q)

679 "544 From a human standpoint, this election is soul-draining and spirit crushing. There are days where it saps me of my will to care, to dream, even to live anything more than a moribund, nominal 'life.'

From a Poli-Sci aspect, it's fascinating. Regardless of who wins, I think we're in for a long-o"

Yep.

Posted by: Lauren at July 21, 2016 06:01 PM (v3zRt)

680 What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?
Posted by: Realityman

-----

That's not the sort of thing you "find out"; it's the sort of thing you suspect forever and ever until the day you die... and all your relatives call you a conspiracy nut.

Seriously. Has any such thing ever proven demonstratively factual?

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:01 PM (aFQtB)

681 Anybody know approximately when Trump is speaking tonight? Do not want to miss that.

Posted by: tubal at July 21, 2016 06:01 PM (d6TTt)

682 676 Seriously though can You imagine having to hear Hillary's shrill voice for 4/8 years?

----------------------------

pretty sure that Hag doesn't have that many years left on this earth

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 06:01 PM (/CIN4)

683 Instapundit has this post linked. Top of the page for now.

Posted by: willy at July 21, 2016 06:02 PM (Ffw22)

684 657 Actually, I'm less embarrassed about voting for Trump than I was about voting for McCain.

Why wasn't there a NeverMcCain group? I don't recall one.
Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 05:56 PM (aFQtB)

There were a lot of people who hated both McCain or Romney. The thing about NeverTrump, and what keeps it powered and invigorated (if you want to call it that) is really the easy soundbite. Everything is so quick and easy. Say the right thing, and you will get validation at a press of a button. Say the wrong thing and you will get INSTANT AND TOTAL CONDEMNATION and social pressure.

Twitter is a skinner box, tribalism, and Pavlovian themes all rolled into one. It is the same with texts.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:02 PM (3ZoRf)

685 >>>Dude!
Posted by: Winona Ryder at July 21, 2016 05:52 PM (1xUj/)

Mijn liefde!!! Niet luisteren! Het is allemaal leugens!!
Ik ben toegewijd aan u!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 06:02 PM (2gKX/)

686 Seriously though can You imagine having to hear Hillary's shrill voice for 4/8 years?
Posted by: donna

----

That laugh of hers! Oh, God, no! That laugh!

And the stilted attempts to appear "normal."

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:02 PM (aFQtB)

687 677 Can we Make AOSHQ Great Again.

----------------------------

Ban bagged shredded cheese - Make America grate again!

Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 06:02 PM (/CIN4)

688 Instapundit has this post linked. Top of the page for now.

Alright everybody be on Your best behavior..

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (O2RFr)

689 Totally agree Ace. Might as well wear our funny hats and have our cocktails now bc shit's gonna get
Real come January.

Posted by: Pj at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (2zXeD)

690 What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?
Posted by: Realityman

-----

That's not the sort of thing you "find out"; it's the sort of thing you suspect forever and ever until the day you die... and all your relatives call you a conspiracy nut.

--------

I don't think he's a plant, but I do think he probably never thought he'd get this far. I think running for President was an indulgence of his, and he probably never thought it would come to this. I say this as opposed to someone like Clinton or Cruz who clearly aspire to be President.

And maybe that is a positive about it all.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (gmeXX)

691 The bittersweet funny thing about the nevertrump GOPe is that they brought on the Trump nomination by being feckless elitards.




Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 21, 2016 05:38 PM (ODxAs)




Nailed it. They created the Trump win by keeping JEB, then Rubio, then Kasich in the race far past their sell-by dates. By dividing Trump's opposition, they allowed him to rise to the top with barely more than 1/3 of the vote in a lot of states.



They thought they were stacking the deck for their guy, but their groupthink blindness didn't let them see the obvious fact that this isn't the usual race, and that the public didn't want more of the same bullshit that they've been feeding us for the past +/- 20 years.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (J+mig)

692 Too much convoluted analysis going on nowadays. It's a common sense decision unless your motivation lies elsewhere.

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (BO/km)

693 Winona shoplifted his heart.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (ZKlDy)

694 That would be a very complex operation to execute - it's not like one can just google up "conservative" "smart military" "open posting" and get results of where to troll.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (P/kVC)

Right. Gotcha. I forgot nobody knows about this blog. I stand corrected.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (4ng05)

695 I've mentioned many times I almost went a #Never but Hillary will be the end.
Imagine the whole White house records vanishing away.
Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (bksJQ)


Imagine the entire gov infrastructure, like the DOJ, already set up for more destruction and corruption having the reins passed to Shrillary from JEF.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (qCMvj)

696 687 Sure ,grating is fine until you accidentally grate your knuckles.Bagged grated cheese saves knuckles!

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 06:04 PM (B48dK)

697 My mom is compassionate, kind, and hardworking

-
And almost never orders hits unless she really, really has to.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 06:04 PM (Nwg0u)

698 Twitter is a skinner box, tribalism, and Pavlovian themes all rolled into one. It is the same with texts.

Posted by: Aetius451AD

---

I think it's a dunking stool to root out the new "witches."

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:04 PM (aFQtB)

699 I'm going to vote for Trump, but there will be some hell to pay if he fails to go after the Clintons as hard as he went after Cruz. "Crooked Hillary" isn't going to get it done. I have a bad feeling he's going to go soft right around debate time. Sure their will be the pointless twitter jabs here or there... but if he goes short of telling Hillary to her face that her husbands a rapist and she's responsible for 4 deaths in Benghazi than what was the point?

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:04 PM (Ch0fq)

700 Freak show, baby.


Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Infidel Queen

Ain't that America
For you and me
Ain't that America
Something to see
Little pink houses
For you and me

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (RFeQD)

701 Laura Ingraham lost me with her pro-Trumpiness. But the anti-Trumpers are stuck on "the party shouldn't have nominated him." I wholeheartedly agree. But that's not where we are now.

The question of Trump or Clinton is a lot closer than I would like it to be; but I'm ultimately in the neverHillary camp.

Posted by: Duke at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (EQNFN)

702 Sorry Ace, Hillary's coronation is proTrumpers fault.

If the only goal is to build an antiHillary coalition, the first step is to choose a candidate acceptable to the coalition members.
Trumps views...and sins ... are the same as the Clintons.
Actions have consequences as you said, and the cost of fracturing the GOP with Filmore Mk2 is most likely a HRC victory.

At this point, if your not voting Johnson, as weak a candidate as he is, your splitting the vote.

Besides Trump literally said he did not need mine, or other conservative votes to win.

And what happened to the Ace who stated he was done covering up for the GOPe?
I saw a post on that 6 mos or so back on a smart mil blog...

Posted by: Howard Devore at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (eNHDE)

703 My mom is compassionate, kind, and hardworking

My favorite was "Advocates for Children." Tell that to the 13 year old rape victim cackles destroyed...

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (O2RFr)

704 What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?
Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (Ch0fq)

And what if frogs had wings. That's be cool - right? They wouldn't be slamming their asses on the ground every time they hopped.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (4ng05)

705 "If my reasoning in the above post is flawed, I'd like to see a rebuttal to it. "

Simple. Anyone who votes for Trump takes a vote from Gary Johnson, so #NeverTrumpers are de facto pro Gary Johnson, and if he doesn't win its because turds that are going to hold their nose and vote for Trump because they feel they have to are the stupid morons denying Gary Johnson the presidency.

Posted by: scofflaw_x at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (ekGL3)

706 'Freak show, baby.'

C'mon ChristyB you have to watch it with us. I predict it's gonna be a hoot.

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (BO/km)

707 I don't think he's a plant, but I do think he probably never thought he'd get this far. I think running for President was an indulgence of his, and he probably never thought it would come to this. I say this as opposed to someone like Clinton or Cruz who clearly aspire to be President.

And maybe that is a positive about it all.
Posted by: SH

----

That was why I always wanted Fred Thompson: he didn't really want the job. That made him close to ideal.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (aFQtB)

708 641 435
Posted by: docweasel at July 21, 2016 05:22 PM (hv5Z3)



So you're saying you shouldn't have voted for Romney and McCain and followed you conscience?==============


No, I'm saying I ate a steaming pile of dogshit to TRY to block obama and all his excesses. Now they can damn well eat some shit to block hillary, and if they won't, then fuck them.
Posted by: docweasel at July 21, 2016 05:54 PM (NtCOi)
^ that ^ but with a itsy bitsy feminine touch;-)

Posted by: Bebe Dahl at July 21, 2016 06:06 PM (yNyJy)

709 I agree wholeheartedly. However there are two sides to this circular firing squad and the Trumptards are attacking the NeverTrumpTards with relentless trolling. Worse, they are attacking everybody that is/was pro Cruz. They haven't let up.

And the libtards couldn't be happier because it takes the focus off their disgusting vile demagogue who will be a thousand times worse over time than Trump will ever be because SCOTUS is at stake and already packed with a bunch of morally corrupt ideologues that have forsaken law for liberal outcomes.

This is the stupidest fucking thing since pay toilets.

Posted by: Trip at July 21, 2016 06:06 PM (LuK8d)

710 669
What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (Ch0fq)

This is the most nonintellectual assertion, but it refuses to die. Do you think he's going to be able to just go back to his TV shows and celebrity lifestyle? He has been smeared as everything from evil racist to vulgar and stupid. He can never go back, but he made that type of sacrifice for Hillary? Nobody, especially Bill, would make that sacrifice for Hillary.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:06 PM (xmQSf)

711 Re: Twitter

Millions of their users don't exist, run by bots to push whatever message they want.

Couldn't a conservative mastermind run their own robot accounts and flood Twitter into collapse with a flood of badmindthink?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2016 06:06 PM (ZKlDy)

712
*squirt*

Posted by: Anthony Weiner, visionary at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (yMXxL)

713 Nice post.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)

714 Mijn liefde!!! Niet luisteren! Het is allemaal leugens!!
Ik ben toegewijd aan u!!
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy



I'm going to tell her.

I'm going to tell her all the dirty, dirty things you've said to me just because I'm named Winona.

Posted by: Winona Judd at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (1xUj/)

715 I understand the #NeverTrump impulse. I've expressed it myself. After Trump's boorish, vulgar, half-insane attack on Cruz's wife, I announced "I'm done" with Trump and vowed to never vote for him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I suppose this was somehow for my benefit. Give me a break.

He re-tweeted a picture. Please stop with these pussy liberal safe space girlish shrieks that this was a half insane, vulgar attack.

It was a tame internet meme, re-tweeted by Trump. Big fucking deal. Some of you people would have had to have fainting couches for the shit they said about one another back in the Jefferson, Hamilton, Adams days. Grow a pair of balls already.

Posted by: deadrody at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (q72NU)

716 I think the best thing for Trump to do tonight is to not even mention Senator Cruz.

He's going to get slammed by the hardcore #nevertards anyway.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (WVsWD)

717 *squirt*
Posted by: Anthony Weiner

----

Anthony! You got hacked again!

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (aFQtB)

718 676 Seriously though can You imagine having to hear Hillary's shrill voice for 4/8 years?

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 06:00 PM (O2RFr)

++++

The cackling. Don't forget about the cackling.

Posted by: Hillary Rodham! Clinton at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (R+30W)

719 Moeten we onze geheimen van liefde spreken in het Nederlands. We willen niet dat de smerige ketchup eters in onze gefluister van affectie te luisteren. Je bent mijn bloem, Winona!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 06:08 PM (2gKX/)

720 701 Laura Ingraham lost me with her pro-Trumpiness. But the anti-Trumpers are stuck on "the party shouldn't have nominated him." I wholeheartedly agree. But that's not where we are now.

The question of Trump or Clinton is a lot closer than I would like it to be; but I'm ultimately in the neverHillary camp.
Posted by: Duke at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (EQNFN)


Gah. I still look at it this way: I have no idea what Trump will do (depends on the day what he might do.) With Hillary, you are assured of pretty much 4-8 years of darkness from both lawlessness, corruption, greed, court packing, single payer, and all of the societal forces the progressives have let out of the bottle.

Potential vs certainty. Pretty easy choice if you are hanging on the cliff's edge to grab onto those blades of grass.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:08 PM (3ZoRf)

721 In Peruvia you are not allowed to be responsible for your actions. There are heavy penalties for being responsible.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:08 PM (1CroS)

722
I miss rdbrewer!

Last time I said it a coblogger got mad at me. TS

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 06:08 PM (iQIUe)

723 I don't think he's a plant, but I do think he probably never thought he'd get this far.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:03 PM (gmeXX)


I'm not sure if Trump was thinking spoiler in that mysterious 3-hour call with Bill Clinton.... but I'm pretty sure Clinton was thinking it.

I also didn't think Trump knew what he was getting into.

If he doesn't start spending money like water, he's going to lose. That $2 billion in free press during the primary isn't going to be there now.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (wB8Tg)

724 719 Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 06:08 PM (2gKX/)

Had a brief fling with a Dutch dame years ago. I look back on that quite fondly.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (27m1/)

725 ....but if he goes short of telling Hillary to her face
that her husbands a rapist and she's responsible for 4 deaths in
Benghazi than what was the point?

Posted by: Realityman

Have you been watching any of the convention speeches the last few days?

They are going after Hillary and Obama pretty hard. These are all chosen surrogates for Trump.

What do you think happens next? Trump morphs into Mitt Romney?

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (RFeQD)

726 Some of you people would have had to have fainting couches for the shit they said about one another back in the Jefferson, Hamilton, Adams days. Grow a pair of balls already.

-----------

They also had duels.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (gmeXX)

727 669
What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (Ch0fq)

The ease of conning people via the "Big Lie" is a well known and effect tactic. When you KNOW you have the hook set...anything goes. You can have fun with it..hell...blatantly Rick Roll them..invite them to speak and then drown them out with a jet...tell them they are so gullible that you could "shoot someone on 5th Ave...and they will still vote for me!..It's incredible!" etc.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (aRUb8)

728 Seriously though can You imagine having to hear Hillary's shrill voice for 4/8 years?

Posted by: donna at July 21, 2016 06:00 PM (O2RFr)

++++

The cackling. Don't forget about the cackling.

Posted by: Hillary Rodham! Clinton at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (R+30W)

I think I would try to become deaf while I am still in the Service to not only get full disability but not have to hear her. Yeah if she is elected that's the plan.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (Ozsfq)

729
That was why I always wanted Fred Thompson: he didn't really want the job. That made him close to ideal.
Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:05 PM (aFQtB)

Absolutely on that one.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (3ZoRf)

730 "I'm not sure that's totally accurate. The NeverTrump people are mostly serious movement conservatives. They're against Trump because they're really into conservative principles and find his lax observation of them unacceptable. The movement conservatives weren't happy with the GOP elite ducking battles on Obamacare, the deficit, etc.
Posted by: Jill v2

Yes, serious conservatives that are either impotent or uninterested in actually getting the GOP to become a conservative enterprise.

The GOP is either a dishonest organization or a failed one.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 05:55 PM (VY8H5)"

This may be a matter of degree and tactics. When I joined the GOP some decades ago, there were a lot of moderate, pro-choice Republicans at the federal level. [I say that as someone who is pro-choice and moderate on the social stuff.] There are far fewer now.

The Tea Party & Club for Growth efforts in 2010 and 2012 succeeded in bringing in a lot more serious conservatives. Democrats have been eviscerated at the state and local level across many states. After the 2006 routs, I thought it would take a generation to win back the House & Senate. It only took 4 and 8 years, respectively. The party has been moved further to the right on fiscal issues and some social issues.

Obama has been able to stymie a lot of their efforts by resorting to blatantly abusive executive orders and planting leftist hacks in the government agencies & the judiciary.

However, this election cycle has revealed a lot of cracks in the coalition between social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and national security hawks. The conservatives have turned out to be less numerous than the populist wing.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (8048L)

731 *squirt*

Posted by: Anthony Weiner, visionary


*****


Ahem. Ve haff talked about zis multiple times during group sessions, Tony. Keep it in your pants or I vill haff to vhack it again! Aversion therapy, remember?

Posted by: Dr. Ruth Westheimer, diminutive sex therapist extraordinaire at July 21, 2016 06:10 PM (NeFrd)

732
What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?
Posted by: Realityman


The planet Earth is a false flag operation.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 21, 2016 06:10 PM (IqV8l)

733 Politics is dirty. Always has been and always will be. If you don't like it don't get in to politics.

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:10 PM (BO/km)

734 729 Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (3ZoRf)


Teh Fred, bless him, would have been one helluva good prexy.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:10 PM (27m1/)

735 710 669
What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (Ch0fq)

This is the most nonintellectual assertion, but it refuses to die. Do you think he's going to be able to just go back to his TV shows and celebrity lifestyle? He has been smeared as everything from evil racist to vulgar and stupid. He can never go back, but he made that type of sacrifice for Hillary? Nobody, especially Bill, would make that sacrifice for Hillary.


Well I mean look at the end result of he was a plant. The republican party, and certainly the conservative wing has been destroyed, Hillary in the white house.. the "deep bench" of republican candidates have been smeared by Trump beyond repair. If Trump starts to "slip up" and lose this election (and lets be honest, the whole boo offstage followed with a tweet by trump isn't going to win any "nevertrumper" votes, so he's got a built in excuse to lose), then he will accomplished something democrats could only have dreamed up 2 years ago... taken out a young bench of solid republican candidates, and handed a walk in win to Hillary Clinton. Just providing an alternative viewpoint should Trump stumble badly or go soft.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (Ch0fq)

736
682 676 Seriously though can You imagine having to hear Hillary's shrill voice for 4/8 years?

----------------------------

pretty sure that Hag doesn't have that many years left on this earth
Posted by: Rick in SK at July 21, 2016 06:01 PM (/CIN4)


Well according to Supernatural demon deals typically last ten years before the hell hound comes to collect your soul. But their are exceptions made.

Posted by: Buzzion at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (z/Ubi)

737 The NeverTrump people are mostly serious movement conservatives. They're against Trump because they're really into conservative principles and find his lax observation of them unacceptable.

??????

So they are willing to let a far left wing activist occupy The White House to prove their point? Some logic there?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (Ozsfq)

738 669

What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?



Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (Ch0fq)

What's the motivation? What's in it for Trump? He has exchanged his celebrity for infamy, and why? What does he get out of it. Fill in that blank intelligently and I'll think much better of you.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (xmQSf)

739 Well I mean look at the end result of he was a plant. The republican party, and certainly the conservative wing has been destroyed, Hillary in the white house.. the "deep bench" of republican candidates have been smeared by Trump beyond repair. If Trump starts to "slip up" and lose this election (and lets be honest, the whole boo offstage followed with a tweet by trump isn't going to win any "nevertrumper" votes, so he's got a built in excuse to lose), then he will accomplished something democrats could only have dreamed up 2 years ago... taken out a young bench of solid republican candidates, and handed a walk in win to Hillary Clinton. Just providing an alternative viewpoint should Trump stumble badly or go soft.
Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (Ch0fq)

I think A-Rod was a plant on the Yankees by the Red Sox's to ruin the Yankees. Yeah that's the ticket

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:12 PM (Ozsfq)

740
ICYMI, Trump and the Cvnt are in a dead heat right now. Is it that she's such a lousy candidate or that he's wiping the floor with her?

Either way, if this thing becomes a repeat of 2000, Ruth Baader-Meinhoff will choose the next Prexy.

And then the world as we know it ends.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (27m1/)

741 >>Politics is dirty. Always has been and always will be. If you don't like it don't get in to politics.

That cuts both ways. Trump thought he could slander his primary opponents and anyone who didn't agree with him and they would just roll over and support him.

Turns out others can play hardball too.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (/tuJf)

742 725 ....but if he goes short of telling Hillary to her face
that her husbands a rapist and she's responsible for 4 deaths in
Benghazi than what was the point?

Posted by: Realityman

Have you been watching any of the convention speeches the last few days?

They are going after Hillary and Obama pretty hard. These are all chosen surrogates for Trump.

What do you think happens next? Trump morphs into Mitt Romney?
Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (RFeQD)

It wouldn't surprise me, low info voters don't want these speeches, they will watch the debates - this is all theatre for the people that follow politics, but its the debates, face to face, that these things need to be said, anything else is pointless noise.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (Ch0fq)

743 615
====or, will he continue to take his opportunities to shit on more repubs and do that instead?

Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 05:43 PM (iRJ+A)



-----------------------------------------------------------------



Not likely, in fact Trump has not been that much as of late except with a few holdouts.



No he won't miss an chance to big time Obama.

Posted by: William Eaton at July 21, 2016 05:50 PM (KhJh

===If one believes the reports that Trump's campaign orchestrated and encouraged the booing -- that was a move designed to shit on a lot of people.When one considers that actual words Cruz was speaking when the orchestrated booing was going on -- that was just insane. Talk about giving easy fodder to the other side. Now, it will be really easy to make a hundred pro-Satanic Bitch commercials using just that footage. "Republicans boo freedom." "Republicans boo the constitution." "Republicans boo voting for down=ballot republicans," followed by a nasty comment with something like: 'well they should know.'
And why did they do it? Bored silence or tepid applause still would have had the same effect of reducing Cruz down to nothingness.
It was a blown opportunity to invite people who hate and/or fear republicans (who by definition are not Cruz supporters either) to feel more comfortable in voting against someone they know is a horrible, lying, criminal bitch. Instead, they were treated to a show that looked like Stalin v. Trotsky just cuz one guy wouldn't suck the either guy off on TV. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Cruz was stupid and Trump was stupid. And my #neverthatcriminalbitch hopes were dimmed once again.

Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (iRJ+A)

744 RKae: "That was why I always wanted Fred Thompson: he didn't really want the job. That made him close to ideal."

And the person who doesn't want to be president will never become president. It cannot work that way.

Well, maybe in the movies.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (1CroS)

745 I think A-Rod was a plant on the Yankees by the Red Sox's to ruin the Yankees. Yeah that's the ticket

-------

No just the baseball gods having a good laugh.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (gmeXX)

746 McClellan was a plant from the South~!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (VY8H5)

747 Great post Ace!
I'm still on the fence of #NeverTrump, but if I do not vote the man, its because I decided that this Nation is like a alcoholic and we haven't hit bottom yet and we need more pain on our lives to effect change. We may truly need to hit bottom collectively to get enough people willing to change. I pray it doesn't get to a bloodshed type of 2nd revolution, but until the pain of the liberal agenda hurts us to the point action nothing is going to truly change.

Posted by: Janir at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (Lk5qN)

748 "He re-tweeted a picture. Please stop with these pussy liberal safe space girlish shrieks that this was a half insane, vulgar attack.

It was a tame internet meme, re-tweeted by Trump. Big fucking deal. Some of you people would have had to have fainting couches for the shit they said about one another back in the Jefferson, Hamilton, Adams days. Grow a pair of balls already.

Posted by: deadrody at July 21, 2016 06:07 PM (q72NU) "

He insinuated that Cruz's dad was part of the conspiracy to kill JFK. That's pretty fucking brazen.

But again, most of us Cruz supporters have sucked it up. He lost - we got over it. It's Trump or Hillary now and it's easy to see which horse to back, even if said horse also happens to be a horse's ass.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (kumBu)

749 And all politicians are dirty. All. Like snakes they are. Most of them are lawyers so that tells you most of what you need to know.

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (BO/km)

750 So, here I sit in Oregon... Since I already know where the electoral college will go here, I have the rare luxury of not having to hold my nose and choose which evil is lesser... so no, I won't bother with Trump this go 'round.

Here's let me break it down for you:

It literally does not matter here in Oregon if I vote for Trump, Johnson, or my dog.

Oregon's electoral college will vote with whomever the majority of the state votes with - winner-take-all. The majority of the population lives in excruciatingly hipster/left-wing areas (those areas are Multnomah County (Portland), Marion County (Salem), and Deschutes County (Bend)), and practices the same fearfully ignorant left-wing ideology.

Given this, I already know where this deep-blue state will vote come November, in spite of the massive let-down most of them experienced after Sanders sold out to Clinton. They're blind, stupid sheep who have no principles, and will be easily frightened into voting for the same person (Clinton) that their idol (Sanders) stated, point-blank, was a corrupt wall-street hack. Why? Because they do what they're told and then get told how smart and 'independent' they are for doing what they're told. They have the approximate ideological backbone of a jellyfish. They're docile, dutiful sheep, and the DNC has a lien on the title to their very souls.

Me? I got principles, and I have the rare luxury of sticking to them unchallenged this go 'round. I find Trump to be a self-aggrandizing amateur whose only interest is himself. He stumbles from one trite saying to the next, often contradicting himself within the same sentence. He's about as statesman-like as my cat is when she horks up a hairball. Seriously - given his business record and personality, I wouldn't trust him to run a trash compactor, let alone the Executive Branch of the USA.

Certainly, Hillary is 10x worse. 100x worse, even... but my vote literally will not affect the outcome of this election due to the Electoral College and the way it works. And to be honest, I'm okay with that... Choosing Trump as the lesser of two evils means you're still stuck with condoning Evil. No thanks.

At least by voting 3rd-party, I can express my displeasure to the GOP in a way that, when combined with all the other protest votes, will be heard loud-and-clear.

Posted by: TJ Miller at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (MczCP)

751 If Trump starts to "slip up" and lose this election
(and lets be honest, the whole boo offstage followed with a tweet by
trump isn't going to win any "nevertrumper" votes, so he's got a built
in excuse to lose), then he will accomplished something democrats could
only have dreamed up 2 years ago... taken out a young bench of solid
republican candidates, and handed a walk in win to Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (Ch0fq)
Yes, we couldn't possibly have managed to lose to Hillary with Jeb, Rubio, or Kasich. Trump is the only candidate who could win the primaries but lose the general election.

Posted by: GOPe at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (FohCt)

752 Are we still talking about clam chowder?

Posted by: Chi at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (m1x3q)

753 Posted by: J.J. Sefton

---

What's that about a dead cvnt in heat?

Hang on. I'd better read your post again.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (aFQtB)

754 744 RKae: "That was why I always wanted Fred Thompson: he didn't really want the job. That made him close to ideal."

And the person who doesn't want to be president will never become president. It cannot work that way.

Well, maybe in the movies.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (1CroS)


What is that quote? The one about "having greatness thrust upon you?"

Fred. In an alternate universe.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (27m1/)

755 >>>724 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (27m1/)

I think I would rather remember 2 cool facts I learned about JJ (banged Dutch girl, friends with True Romance hitman) than anything about the shitshow.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (2gKX/)

756 And chile?

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (bksJQ)

757 Fred Thompson was really low energy ,God bless him.(he is even more low energy now,alas)

Posted by: steevy at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (B48dK)

758 All I know is aos comments went from - the GOP needs to stop nominating RINOs to embracing a nominee who is a literal RINO. I thought Trump would do great with the left leaning undecideds because of his liberalism but his biggest defenders are the grassroot conservatives. He is a liberal Perot with a bigger base. It is definitely surreal.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (8yZ+3)

759 No just the baseball gods having a good laugh.
Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (gmeXX)

Now that hurts!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (Ozsfq)

760 753 Posted by: J.J. Sefton

---

What's that about a dead cvnt in heat?

Hang on. I'd better read your post again.
Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (aFQtB)



Evelyn Wood graduates have a rough time around here.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (27m1/)

761 722
I miss rdbrewer!

Last time I said it a coblogger got mad at me. TS

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 06:08 PM (iQIUe)

++++

100% agree. His sidebar stuff was awesome even if you leave out the Trump stuff.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (R+30W)

762 What's the motivation? What's in it for Trump? He has exchanged his celebrity for infamy, and why? What does he get out of it. Fill in that blank intelligently and I'll think much better of you.
Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (xmQSf)

Trump has his excuse - it's the Cruzbots that didn't vote for him. They cost him the election. You can see it play out already. Just a theory here, spitballing, dismiss it if you want, but come October we might have more in common than you think.

I'm still voting for Trump, but I'm not optimistic by any means given what I've seen.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (Ch0fq)

763 I hope he doesn't mention Cruz....outright anyway.


I was so happy for Sen. Cruz when he came out to such thunderous applause, and then gave a speech with standing ovations. Unfortunately he was still too angry about the primary...and it showed, he should have stayed home.


Let's hope things are better tonight.







Posted by: Pam at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (cF0hS)

764 Hillary for Prison.

Enough said.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (uUBML)

765 No just the baseball gods having a good laugh.
Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (gmeXX)

Now that hurts!

----------

I hope you will be ok with your 26 titles.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (gmeXX)

766 And chile?

Posted by: Skip


Fuck them.

Posted by: Peruvia at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (VY8H5)

767 The odds that any one person's vote will change the outcome of this election are astronomically remote. If you can't stomach the choices, just don't vote. You can do so in the knowledge that your one vote wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (uOtyQ)

768 Someone tell me if I have this correct.

Item 1. Trump is a stupid carny barker clown.
Item 2. Trump is smart enough to be a hillzebub plant.

I seeing a problem here and need my opinion to be guided.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (WVsWD)

769 Evelyn Wood graduates have a rough time around here.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton

----

Goal! Goal! Goal! Goal!

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (aFQtB)

770 'That cuts both ways. Trump thought he could slander his primary opponents and anyone who didn't agree with him and they would just roll over and support him. '

Yes and DT accepts that cause he's a dirty politician. And pretty good at it.

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (BO/km)

771 Are we still talking about clam chowder?

Posted by: Chi at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (m1x3q)


****


In an odd sort of way I guess you could say yes, yes we are.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (NeFrd)

772 [Trump]... a plant
Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (Ch0fq)

---------------------------
[redacted]

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (NUqwG)

773 755 >>>724 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (27m1/)

I think I would rather remember 2 cool facts I learned about JJ (banged Dutch girl, friends with True Romance hitman) than anything about the shitshow.
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 06:14 PM (2gKX/)


Brother, I'm here to vent, voice my opinion, teach a little and learn a lot. No hard feelings. I don't get personal and I never take things personal. When that happens, it's time to get out.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (27m1/)

774
A week ago we had the Nice attack and then the coup the same night or the following and then the ax attack. What a week!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (iQIUe)

775 >>All I know is aos comments went from - the GOP needs to stop nominating RINOs to embracing a nominee who is a literal RINO.

And rdbrewer is demonstrates that perfectly. He would slam Romney daily in the sidebar for not being pure enough yet this cycle he was proudly Trump!

I repeat, the word conservative has lost all meaning.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (/tuJf)

776 Someone tell me if I have this correct.

Item 1. Trump is a stupid carny barker clown.
Item 2. Trump is smart enough to be a hillzebub plant.

I seeing a problem here and need my opinion to be guided.
Posted by: Tim in Illinois

----

Don't you remember the days of George W. Bush: the devious genius idiot?

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (aFQtB)

777 Yes and DT accepts that cause he's a dirty politician. And pretty good at it.

----------

Its possible that Trump and Cruz are both pretty good politicians.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (gmeXX)

778 That was sarcasm, by the way.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (aFQtB)

779 757
Fred Thompson was really low energy ,God bless him.(he is even more low energy now,alas)

Posted by: steevy


Untrue. He's generating buckets of methane as we speak.

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (LAe3v)

780 He insinuated that Cruz's dad was part of the conspiracy to kill JFK. That's pretty fucking brazen.

But again, most of us Cruz supporters have sucked it up. He lost - we got over it. It's Trump or Hillary now and it's easy to see which horse to back, even if said horse also happens to be a horse's ass.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (kumBu)

Personally the dad stuff was pretty stupid, I'd laugh it off... but the National Enquirer story about Cruz and 5 women... that would be a punch to the face. Pure trash.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (Ch0fq)

781 Scenario:

I am the boss. I have some work that needs to be done, my time is better spent on other things, and- theoretically- there is someone out there that can do the work better than I can.

So I post a job. After weeding out the mass of applications that came in blank, where completely unsuitable, or didn't show up for an interview I am let with two final candidates.

One should be occupying a jail cell and the other an insane asylum. Neither has demonstrated any ability to perform even the most basic functions of the job.

I have a few choices. I can hire whichever seems to be the lesser of two evils, pay them for a job I know they won't do, and end up doing it all myself while trying to undo whatever damage they end up doing or I can hire neither and just get by as well as I can on my own.

The way the Constitution puts in, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people".

There is always another choice. We can elect someone to do the job required or we can do the job ourselves.

Both candidates have unequivocally stated that they have no intention of performing the duties of the office nor adhering to the powers and limits of the office. The job of the President of the United States is 3 very basic things: 1. Preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, 2. Chief Diplomat, 3. Check and balance on Congress by signing or vetoing bills. There is absolutely nothing in the job description about fixing anything, making laws, making regulations, repealing anything, creating or saving jobs, etc. All of those things are explicitly reserved to other branches, the states, and ultimately, the people.

I don't want and will not vote for a savior, a dictator, a king, or someone who thinks its the job to shut people up or promote any citizen or group over another.

All elected positions are nothing more than representatives. In the case of the President, it is the representative of the U.S. to other countries. Nothing more.

Posted by: Damiano at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (71OEY)

782
the "deep bench" of republican candidates have been smeared by Trump beyond repair.


Thats a knee slapper,deep bench.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (lKyWE)

783 However, this election cycle has revealed a lot
of cracks in the coalition between social conservatives, fiscal
conservatives, and national security hawks. The conservatives have
turned out to be less numerous than the populist wing.

Posted by: Jill v2 at July 21, 2016 06:09 PM (8048L)


Not everyone is easily pigeonholed either. I'm a mix of populist, constitutional, national security, and fiscal (though with an economic outlook more similar to the Founders Lincoln than modern Keynesian voodoo economists).

I can vote for a candidate that's strong in any of those categories, as long as they are a net positive across those categories. If you wait for perfection, you're going to end up waiting a long time. This is a fallen world, nothing in it is perfect.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (J+mig)

784 The odds that any one person's vote will change the outcome of this election are astronomically remote. If you can't stomach the choices, just don't vote. You can do so in the knowledge that your one vote wouldn't have made a difference anyway.
Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (uOtyQ)

Kevin Costner disagrees

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (Ch0fq)

785 Trump has his excuse - it's the Cruzbots that didn't
vote for him. They cost him the election. You can see it play out
already. Just a theory here, spitballing, dismiss it if you want, but
come October we might have more in common than you think.



I'm still voting for Trump, but I'm not optimistic by any means given what I've seen.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (Ch0fq)

That didn't answer my question. An excuse is not a motivation, but anyway I'm leaving, before I go all Mr. Hyde.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (xmQSf)

786 Don't you remember the days of George W. Bush: the devious genius idiot?
Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (aFQtB)
------------------------------

Wait. I missed the devious genius days. When was that?

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (NUqwG)

787 'Its possible that Trump and Cruz are both pretty good politicians.'

Yep. I still like Cruz. But he aint the candy date.

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (BO/km)

788 763 Posted by: Pam at July 21, 2016 06:15 PM (cF0hS)

I suppose Mr. Trump could be a mensch and categorically apologize to Ted Cruz for the frankly inexcusable personal attacks. It would elevate him quite a bit by doing the Christian thing and turning the other cheek to really unify the party.

But, I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Meh. It is what it is. Let's win.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (27m1/)

789 It literally does not matter here in Oregon if I vote for Trump, Johnson, or my dog.


I've been explaining this to Mommy. She lives in a swing state (PA). I do not (CT).

So her vote counts and mine doesn't.

Given that mine doesn't count I'm going to throw it to raising the national profile of the Libertarian Party. Gary Johnson is a loon. I don't want him to be president.

But when some LIVs wake up and say "who's this guy who got 15% of the vote" I'll hope that they take notice of libertarian principles.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (1xUj/)

790 deep bench.
-----------------------
A wide bench.

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (NUqwG)

791 He insinuated that Cruz's dad was part of the conspiracy to kill JFK. That's pretty fucking brazen.


NO he did not. What he did was bad enough, no need to embellish it. He referred to an National Inquirer article to misidentified Cruz's father as handing out flyers with Oswald.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (Ozsfq)

792 McClellan was a plant from the South~!
Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 06:13 PM (VY8H5)

Well part of his platform was to overturn the Emacipation Proclamation and return the slaves to their previous owners as part of the truce he / Dems proposed.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (8yZ+3)

793 Fred Thompson was really low energy ,God bless him.(he is even more low energy now,alas)


*****


His carbon footprint is safely sequestered in the loving arms of Mother Gaia

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (NeFrd)

794 782
the "deep bench" of republican candidates have been smeared by Trump beyond repair.


Thats a knee slapper,deep bench.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (lKyWE)

Perhaps, but I'd say about 2 years ago everyone was raving about the choices... at least compared to what the democrats were warming up.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (Ch0fq)

795 What's the motivation? What's in it for Trump? He has exchanged his celebrity for infamy, and why? What does he get out of it. Fill in that blank intelligently and I'll think much better of you.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (xmQSf)


A massively corrupt person in the White House who owes you the world and has a history of crony deals from public office, *and* huge ties to the biggest billionaire donors on the left.

*ASSUMING* there was even a deal. As I said, Bill Clinton might have encouraged him expecting him to be a spoiler while Trump was expecting to at least enhance his brand and maybe even win.

Not being psychic, I'm not privy to any inside information.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (wB8Tg)

796 In an odd sort of way I guess you could say yes, yes we are.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon
-------------------
I was hoping someone would make that joke. I didn't want to swing at my own low hanging curveball.

Posted by: Chi at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (m1x3q)

797 If Hillary Clinton wins, the blame does not lie with the #NeverTrump crowd. It lies squarely on the shoulders of the people who chose Trump as the GOP candidate despite the fact that the polls showed he was the weakest candidate against Clinton, and despite the fact that a substantial portion of the conservative base said Trump was unacceptable as a candidate. You made your choice. You are morally responsible for the consequences.

Posted by: Eric James Stone at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (FhW4y)

798 That was sarcasm, by the way.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (aFQtB)
Thanks for your guidance my Good Sir/Madam/Space Alien/Deep See Monster/Otherkin.

I figured as much.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (WVsWD)

799 >>Personally the dad stuff was pretty stupid, I'd laugh it off... but the National Enquirer story about Cruz and 5 women... that would be a punch to the face. Pure trash.

Don't forget, Trump was also a big pusher of the Cruz is a Canuck issue. He was encouraging people to sue to see if Cruz was eligible.

That's something you would expect a Democrat to do.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (/tuJf)

800 Trump is Hilliary with better hair. The country is sliding down a slimy slope and within the next three or four years will hit rock bottom. Neither Trump nor Hilliary can stop it. Trump will not "save" the country because he hasn't a clue as to what is actually wrong. Instead, he gets in line with "gay marriage," "bathroom freedom," Planned Parenthood, etc. Other than his idiotic stance on tariffs and his manufactured bluster about the borders, Trump is no different than Hilliary. Because the country will go down either way, it would be better that Hilliary would be in control so that constitutional conservatives, which Trump certainly is not, cannot be credibly blamed and maybe the country will turn that way when disaster strikes. If Trump is president when the country goes down, and it will go down, then the left gets to point its bony, putrid finger.

A vote for Trump is the same as a vote for Hilliary as a vote for Hilliary is a vote for Trump. They are the same.

Posted by: Dave Mc at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (TkQ41)

801 738
669


What if we find out later Trump was indeed a plant, are we still responsible?





Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 05:58 PM (Ch0fq)

What's
the motivation? What's in it for Trump? He has exchanged his celebrity
for infamy, and why? What does he get out of it. Fill in that blank
intelligently and I'll think much better of you.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (xmQSf)

===Remember Perot? He took one for Team-Billionaire twice so that Billybob could win with under 50% of the vote. And at one point in '92, Perot actually looked like he had a shot at winning -- and then by some strange coincidence he piped off some off-the-wall bullshit about Bush trying to "ruin his daughter's wedding." It was just bizarre. Yet, he fucked up just enough and did well enough to make sure that both he and Bush lost.

Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (iRJ+A)

802 Philadelphia Eagles practice starts Monday, that's something.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (bksJQ)

803 Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (Ozsfq)

You just refuse to read his quotes don't you?

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (8yZ+3)

804 But, I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Meh. It is what it is. Let's win.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (27m1/)

You own a farm? Grow any interesting weeds on it? Asking for a friend

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (Ozsfq)

805 Alrighty, I'll bite the trolling ad-hominem attack thread.


I already lost. The identity of the piece of human garbage in the Whitehouse in any of the next 53 months is irrelevant. All of them are not fit to piss on. At all.

I'm now offered a choice between a sandwich full of dogshit and a sandwich full of cat shit.

The reason I'm given this choice between two pieces of shit is because 12 million democrats voted in open primaries to make "Dog Shit Deluxe" the Republican Choice for Dinner. Only 3.3 million assholes voted for that dickweed before there wasn't a choice anymore. Then there wasn't any kind of responsibility in action.

Who is to blame? I am already defeated, and Democrats throwing the game and 3.3 million votes did it to me.


I ain't going to choose between Brezhnev and Trotsky, because there isn't a single person running who will protect the Constitution.
That means this election is already over. Done. And so it the Republic. Dead.

The Republic is a Dead Parrot.

And two maggots are running. I am not going to give either of them tiny little hats.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 21, 2016 06:21 PM (c1VpD)

806 Wait. I missed the devious genius days. When was that?
Posted by: RioBravo

----

He detonated the Twin Towers, man!

He kidnapped a plane full of people, took it to a secret location, dismantled it, erased the passengers from existence, had voice actors call their families to say goodbye, then fired a missile at the Pentagon, and had hundreds of fake witnesses say they saw a plane hit the building!

That's some seriously big-thinking strategy!

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (aFQtB)

807

Bottom line:

BEAT THE BEAST.

That is all, and to all a good night.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (27m1/)

808
ICYMI, Trump and the Cvnt are in a dead heat right now. Is it that she's such a lousy candidate or that he's wiping the floor with her?

Just wait for her convention bounce.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (IqV8l)

809 That didn't answer my question. An excuse is not a motivation, but anyway I'm leaving, before I go all Mr. Hyde.
Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:18 PM (xmQSf)

I'm sorry, his motivation is whatever the hell he's going to get from the Clintons, sure perhaps a conspiracy, but he was fairly friendly with them. I'm just providing a reason if we happen to see Trump run a softer campaign as the low info voters begin to pay attention. No need to be angry, you people take discussion of politics far too personal.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (Ch0fq)

810 You just refuse to read his quotes don't you?
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (8yZ+3)


I read them. Find me the quote where he explicitly tied Cruz's father to the conspiracy? And as I said what he did say was bat shit crazy enough and I am not, nor have I ever defended it. But I am not going to misquote him either

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (Ozsfq)

811 Are you saying DT should be in an insane asylum Damiano?

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (BO/km)

812 The Republic is a Dead Parrot.

----

And soon to be a cheese shop with no cheese in it.

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (aFQtB)

813 Alright Trump fans, non-Trump fans, relunctant Trump supporters, and NeverTrumpers. Good luck to Trump tonight. I may not like him, but he is entertaining. I'm sure he'll have some good lines. I'm out. Here's hoping that Ace can get a decents night rest and maybe take a long weekend. He seems agitated. And aren't we all.

Posted by: SH at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (gmeXX)

814 Philadelphia Eagles practice starts Monday, that's something.

Some pre pre pre season football is starting?

Football, you bet!

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (qUNWi)

815 The Republic is a Dead Parrot.



Beautiful plumage, though.

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (LAe3v)

816 775 >>All I know is aos comments went from - the GOP needs to stop nominating RINOs to embracing a nominee who is a literal RINO.

And rdbrewer is demonstrates that perfectly. He would slam Romney daily in the sidebar for not being pure enough yet this cycle he was proudly Trump!

I repeat, the word conservative has lost all meaning.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (/tuJf)

++++

Globalist vs nationalist. You think that nationalism is somehow anti-conservative. The definition of a conservative is one who wants to conserve traditional values. Nationalism, not globalism, is the traditional value.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (R+30W)

817 A.B. Stoddard brought up the Trump is a Clinton plant the other day. She wasn't advocating it, just things people brought up as possible clues.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (bksJQ)

818 Well part of his platform was to overturn the Emancipation Proclamation and return the slaves to their previous owners as part of the truce he / Dems proposed.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck


Hold the telegraph, Josiah! We were told the war had nerthing to der with slervereh~!!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (VY8H5)

819 "I don't want and will not vote for a savior, a dictator, a king, or someone who thinks its the job to shut people up or promote any citizen or group over another"

How about someone who has generated about a billion dollars in economic activity since the start of the campaign season?

About 160 million from one dumb ass Jebbie alone. That's worth my vote.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (WVsWD)

820
I like dogs on rafts in pools:

http://goo.gl/PKvBZK

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (iQIUe)

821 I repeat, the word conservative has lost all meaning.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:17 PM (/tuJf)

Conservative has become the new way of saying "My tribe." Maybe people do this with all the labels they ascribe to themselves, I don't know. Usually people latch on to an ideal and then pervert it based on their own personal drift and tastes. What they want is good, hence "conservative" and what they do not like is bad, hence "RINO" or "GOPe".

It is the same for the establishment elite in the republican party or commentariat. They are either ambivalent, pro-, or financially invested in immigration. It becomes not just a representative issue about their voters not liking the idea, but rather a "True conservative" value to agitate for open borders, and their own voters are the ones in the wrong.

People are strange, but predictable.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (3ZoRf)

822 Pinin for the Fnards.

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 06:23 PM (qUNWi)

823 I would vote for SCoaMF or McAmnesty over Hilarity! That's how godawful Hilarity! is. She might be the worst presidential candidate in American history for all of her corruption, ineptitude, dishonesty, fuckupedness, and cackling.

And Cruz cannot endorse Trump at this particular juncture? Incredible. And I gave both money and lip-service to help usher Cruz into the Texas Senate.

Trump cannot possibly be worse than Hilarity! and Cruz, for all of his honor and principle, should've swallowed hard this round. Alas, he's not a better man.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (1CroS)

824 I dispute the notion that there are no consequence-free choices. If you live in the great state of Maryland, it doesn't matter if you vote for Trump or write in Cruz or Romney or Kashich or whomever. Hillary will win in Maryland.

I am firmly never-Trump and will not vote for him in November, but I am certainly not going to criticize him in front of undecided or lukewarm-Hillary voters. As much as I despise Trump, I know a Hillary presidency would be a disaster. So, as much as it pains me to admit, I am hoping for a Trump victory and if I lived in a state where it mattered I would vote for him. But I don't, so I don't have to.

Posted by: biancaneve at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (3fayT)

825 UH. UH. GAAAH.

*SQUIRT*

Clinton 2016.

I need a job.

Posted by: Anthony Weiner, on the cum-back trail at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (yMXxL)

826 Way back when: Hmmm. My lawn needs to be mowed. *goes out an mows lawn*

Later: Hmmm. My lawn needs to be mowed *pays someone to mow the lawn*

Now: Hmmm. My lawn needs to be mowed. *elects someone who promises to mow the lawn and make their rich neighbor pay for it*

Posted by: Damiano at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (71OEY)

827 I left the GOP in '99 over "Compassionate Conservatism".
Because I like the idea of small government; and would like a party to defend or endorse that ideal.

I almost thought I'd be coming back this election for Cruz.
But the GOP decided Trump was a better choice.

If I reward the worst behavior I can imagine; I'll get more of it. We all know that.
You don't give your dog a treat for crapping the rug and expect that he'll stop.

So, the GOP doesn't have my vote, and the Democrats have a better chance of winning. And they have since 1999 from my minimalist single vote efforts. True.
Yeah. That sucks. But the alternative is to teach the GOP that small government isn't something any party ever needs to pretend to try to do.

If I want to give up my principles and suck up to big government authoritarians; I'll be a Democrat outright.
At least they're experienced and violating the Constitution.

If I want small Government policies; it makes sense to only support candidates who also want small Government policies.

If you want to give your dog a treat every time he craps the rug... We all know what will happen, don't come crying to me when it does.

Posted by: gekkobear at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (kq7Of)

828 ===Remember Perot? He took one for Team-Billionaire
twice so that Billybob could win with under 50% of the vote. And at one
point in '92, Perot actually looked like he had a shot at winning -- and
then by some strange coincidence he piped off some off-the-wall
bullshit about Bush trying to "ruin his daughter's wedding." It was just
bizarre. Yet, he fucked up just enough and did well enough to make sure
that both he and Bush lost.


Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (iRJ+A)

That's some Zero Hedge level conspiracy theory, but it's still not a motivation, although Perot wasn't smeared as an evil, stupid, racist, so he hasn't sacrificed his reputation the way Trump has.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (xmQSf)

829 I think many of the NeverTrumpers will end up voting for him if it looks like he really can win (which I highly doubt).

If the polls show him up a point or two or tied, they'll make the choice to pull the lever for him. If he's going to lose, they and those others on the fence will bolt and he'll get crushed.

Posted by: dweeb at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (cxyn3)

830 >>>Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (27m1/)

Yeah, I'm pretty much spent on the whole Cruz/Trump thing. Looks like it's reigniting. Well, there was a bit of a break!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (2gKX/)

831 Since the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man is not available, I'm choosing Donald Trump as the form of the Destructor. I don't know for sure how bad he might end up being, but I'm certain Hillary Clinton's naked criminality would be worse. May God save the United States of America.

Posted by: Clyde at July 21, 2016 06:25 PM (xeajn)

832 But when some LIVs wake up and say "who's this guy who got 15% of the vote" I'll hope that they take notice of libertarian principles.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2016 06:19 PM (1xUj/)



Weed, open borders and 73% Bernie Sanders! Man the libertarians are awesome!

Posted by: buzzion at July 21, 2016 06:26 PM (z/Ubi)

833 and an addendum:

I do not believe that any vote cast against Hilary will actually count. I do not believe that this "election" is anything like an event where the vote totals aren't already known. They are. The election isn't. The vote counts won't. The bag is full and the election is in there.

Lois Lerner was originally an FEC employee. There is no voting against Communisim in this Tyanny of Obama, and there never will be.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 21, 2016 06:26 PM (c1VpD)

834 So, logically, if I dont vote for Hillary then, according to Ace, I am helping Trump get elected. That's all of the support I can offer though, since I'm not in the habit of voting for liberals, even those masquerading as a conservative within the Republican party. I've never voted for a liberal in my life and wont start by voting for the lifelong liberal-supporting, Clinton Foundation-donating, Planned Parenthood praising, NATO-not-supporting, govt healthcare promoting, reality TV game show host, Manhattan Millionaire of Playboy and National Inquirer fame. The man is an incurious insecure clown, and his followers are turning the GOP into a circus show. Good grief.

Apparently Ace and his other pro-Trumpers would vote for ANY GOP nominee over Hillary. If Cruz was the nominee he would support. Or Rubio or Walker or Carson or hell even Jeb! So why didnt they? What part of "Never" dont you understand? #NeverTrump started WELL before the primaries end. We said Never. We meant Never, and I will count it a point of pride to prove that I meant it by remaing #NeverTrump. Cant someone, anyone finally say enough of moving the Republican party to the Left? To abandoning another and another, and now with Trump, EVERY single principle we have? That's what #NeverTrump means.

I wont vote for Trump. I wont vote for Hillary and never have, never will a Democrat. Trumpkins own Trump and all that is coming. Own it all.

Posted by: Shrillbilly at July 21, 2016 06:26 PM (Sa86K)

835 Why does Trump hate Presdent Obama is my question to all you lossers out their? Why the hatred to a man who tried so hard to fix the problems Bush created , but you never supported Him. Why ?????????

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Br4attleboro, VT at July 21, 2016 06:26 PM (NuElX)

836 The Republic is a Dead Parrot.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 21, 2016 06:21 PM (c1VpD)


Beautiful plumage...

Posted by: Pet store owner at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (vBeA5)

837 I think these are some reasons US politics has become so vicious.

- The Donks are waaaay off the deep end. (I see a court has ruled a passport be issued without denominating a sex because xis, xat, oxerxing doesn't feel any particular way.)

- No opposition to the party line is tolerated and truth is no defense.

- Tactics that were reasonable in the past such as treating the Donks as people acting in good faith are now hopelessly naive.

- The administration, the courts, the congress, the news media, the entertainment media, the Donks, and the Republicans routinely lie to us.

- The Republicans betrayed the base in late winter 2015.

- Religion is disparaged and the response of many religious institutions is to appease evil.

- Everything the average American values is under attack.

In summary, we're scared, we're angry, we're demonized, and we're desperate. Civility is a virtue many think they can no longer afford.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (Nwg0u)

838 Gary Johnson, Maybe?
Your Dialectic doesn't include the possibility that record negatives from two candidates may unprecedentedly open a door for a third candidate.
Also, I just can't think of why Hillary is actually worse than Trump. Sure, she'll savage our nation. But Trump could get in a pissing contest with a nuclear power and/or conscript me to help him out of the foreign messes he causes. THAT, certainly, could be worse.

Posted by: Michael at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (tUNKV)

839 >>Globalist vs nationalist. You think that nationalism is somehow anti-conservative. The definition of a conservative is one who wants to conserve traditional values. Nationalism, not globalism, is the traditional value.

That is a simplified Trumpian argument. I am absolutely for putting the country first, always have been. I do believe that America is a unique place and that is why we have become the beacon of the world.

But I don't believe in the idiotic economic policies that Trump has been spewing. Protectionism does not work, has never worked and will not work just because Trump does it. Conservatism does not mean you enact failed policies that will actually make the economy and the plight of the average worker worse.

Could we negotiate better deals? Of course. That was a big reason for my support of Romney who actually has made a lot of money doing deals. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with Trump when he is dead wrong.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (/tuJf)

840 Any one else find the timing of gretchen's sex suite and Ailles resignation suspicious?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (Ozsfq)

841 I noticed some like to blame Trump rise and Cruz loss on trump supporters, well yeah,
ok. Some
would argue that Cruz was an uninspiring
presence, lacked leadership, was out of the mainstream, and could not
make a good case for himself and the ideas he presented. He lost on
that, because in politics, just like in sports there are winners and
losers. obama's people read the populace and ran a campaign based on
what they saw and won - i distinctly remember that he pronounced that
"marriage" is between a man and a woman.not because he believed it, but because that is what people wanted to hear. politics is not a confessional booth.

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (c6/9Q)

842 I wont vote for Trump. I wont vote for Hillary and never have, never will a Democrat. Trumpkins own Trump and all that is coming. Own it all.

Own Hillary's SCOTUS.

That's all on you.

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (qUNWi)

843 Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:22 PM (Ozsfq)

Pixy won't let me post the text but you can google Trump a cusses Cruz's father of helping JFK assassin Politico. They have one of his quotes.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (8yZ+3)

844 With respect, Ace, I must disagree. Here's a parallel, intentionally extreme scenario. We'll use the names Hillary and Donald. Hillary, if chosen, will kill a puppy. Trump, if chosen, will kill a kitten

I refuse to enable either to do evil, and so I refuse to play the game. I am not responsible for the evil they choose to do. That is squarely on them, and I will have no part in helping either.

Posted by: Dafyd at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (kDUUX)

845 There are more people not voting than there are who vote, even long time voters sometimes just don't bother.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (bksJQ)

846 Why ?????????

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Br4attleboro, VT at July 21, 2016 06:26 PM (NuElX)


Because Mary, Dubya just did not meet his quota of problems created or saved during his time in office.

He was elected to cause more of them.

He didn't.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (WVsWD)

847
Own Hillary's SCOTUS.

That's all on you.
Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (qUNWi)

And Scalia's Drs

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (Ozsfq)

848 "The odds that any one person's vote will change the outcome of this election are astronomically remote. If you can't stomach the choices, just don't vote. You can do so in the knowledge that your one vote wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (uOtyQ)"

That was my rationale when I was going to stay home/vote 3rd party. In actuality, my single vote doesn't matter. It's about a general attitude/trend among the GOP base, not the decisions of a single person.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (kumBu)

849 "I wont vote for Trump. I wont vote for Hillary and never have, never will a Democrat. Trumpkins own Trump and all that is coming. Own it all."

So you are not going to vote for Trump?

Posted by: guy who needs his ears cleaned at July 21, 2016 06:29 PM (BO/km)

850 Religion is disparaged and the response of many religious institutions is to appease evil.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs

---

The number of churches out here in Seattle that are going out of their way to shout, "YEAH, WE'RE GAY-FRIENDLY!" is absolutely insane.

...No mosques, however. No one seems to expect it of them. Hmmm....

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 06:29 PM (aFQtB)

851 "Any one else find the timing of gretchen's sex suite and Ailles resignation suspicious?"

during a presidential campaign ? not at all. why ?

Posted by: runner at July 21, 2016 06:29 PM (c6/9Q)

852 "If you think Hillary would be a better president -- or if Trump is so repulsive to you you cannot support him even if you think Hillary would be worse -- fine. I respect your opinion."

I think a lot of us #NeverTrump'ers fall into this category.

"But what I must insist you cannot do -- what i will not permit you to do -- is fantasize that while a Trump supporter is resonsible for the gaffes and disasters of a President Trump, you are somehow innocent of the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary."

I don't think folks voting for Trump, particularly because they believe Hillary would be much worse, are somehow responsible for all the stupid things Trump does or says.

Posted by: Doug at July 21, 2016 06:29 PM (tQC7z)

853 840 Any one else find the timing of gretchen's sex suite and Ailles resignation suspicious?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (Ozsfq)

Yes.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:29 PM (3ZoRf)

854 America is unmoored.
Lacking the ability to drop anchor, the least we can do is push it in a better direction.

Posted by: Michael at July 21, 2016 06:30 PM (tUNKV)

855 I wont vote for Trump. I wont vote for Hillary and never have, never will a Democrat. Trumpkins own Trump and all that is coming. Own it all.
Posted by: Shrillbilly at July 21, 2016 06:26 PM (Sa86K)

But you can wail on the drama. No doubt about that.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 06:30 PM (4ng05)

856 Any one else find the timing of gretchen's sex suite and Ailles resignation suspicious?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (Ozsfq)

Phony as a Turkish Coup.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:30 PM (WVsWD)

857 No, I don't agree. You can't just finegle your favorite guy into position with out regard to how everyone else in the party feels about him and then declare that everyone has to vote for your guy or they're responsible for your guys loss. I say the people who picked such a divisive candidate without regard to how the rest of us felt about it are at fault. And I would say the same if the establishment had found a way to force men bush on us. It's just bad strategy.

It's so funny to see the anti establishment people try to use the same tatics and patterns used by the establishment. The same patterns that caused all the rifts in the first place.

Posted by: Lily at July 21, 2016 06:31 PM (JOAfg)

858 Nood.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:31 PM (3ZoRf)

859 Why did Turk coup get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks.

Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 06:31 PM (qUNWi)

860 767 The odds that any one person's vote will change the outcome of this election are astronomically remote. If you can't stomach the choices, just don't vote. You can do so in the knowledge that your one vote wouldn't have made a difference anyway.
Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 06:16 PM (uOtyQ)
------------------------------
My conscience (heh!) doesn't allow me to pass the buck like that.
Seriously, if you took that view seriously, you would never vote at all.



Posted by: Margarita DeVille at July 21, 2016 06:31 PM (T/5A0)

861
Okay, who is this?

https://goo.gl/pZx25j

NSFW sort of...

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 06:31 PM (iQIUe)

862 133 Side note.... in the event Trump wins... and I expect him to win.

That National Review Cruise is going to be off the chain.

At this juncture, because of the behavior of some of the #nevertrump allstars, a defeat of Hillary is a bonus, I will revel in the despair of these people, who were so wrong about so much. The National Review Cruise is going to be the place to be. Who wants to go?
Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at July 21, 2016 04:44 PM (Uy8SG)


People will be jumping overboard.

Posted by: rickl at July 21, 2016 06:32 PM (sdi6R)

863 I refuse to enable either to do evil, and so I refuse to play the game. I am not responsible for the evil they choose to do. That is squarely on them, and I will have no part in helping either.
Posted by: Dafyd at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (kDUUX)

That's some funny shit right there. How long are you in town?

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at July 21, 2016 06:32 PM (4ng05)

864 As long as my complaints about Trump are honest complaints, then I am not the person helping Hillary, in that case Trump is the one helping Hillary.

I can attack Trump all day long on legitimate issues that Trump himself creates, and no where in there am I assisting Hillary. Trump is.

This is like arguing that calling the cops on someone who is robbing a store is helping some other criminal that the police will be distracted from catching. Hillary is not my concern, never was, I have no power in the Democratic party. I cannot exert any control in the Democratic party. I cannot convince the Democratic party to do something better. Just like I cannot call the police on someone committing a crime where I know nothing about it. On the other hand. I am willing to vote for Republicans who are conservative. I have power, however minuscule and ephemeral it is, in the Republican party. I can exert control in the Republican party. I can convince the Republican party to do something better. Just like I can call the police on someone I directly witness committing a crime.

Trump sucks. Trump is a disaster. Trump will be a disaster. Trump has told us what he will do. Trump has shown us how he will do it. Trump has proven who his true enemies are, hint, it is not Democrats. Attacking him for these failures of his is not me assisting Hillary, it is totally Trump's fault.

I am never Trump not because I hate Trump. I am never Trump because Trump continues to be someone who detests me and what I believe while at the same time disparaging me for not seeing him as one of my group.

Trump does not know the constitution. Hillary knows more about the document than Trump does.
Trump does not know Christianity. Hillary knows more about the religion that Trump does.
This is not to say anything good about Hillary, because she is evil to the core and will work night and day to undermine both.
But Trump wants to be the conservative, while not understanding the founding of the nation and what makes it great. Trump wants to be the evangelical, while not understanding the basis of the religion. In fact, he as done as much to undermine both as Hillary Clinton has, and he does it naturally without evident intention to do so.
In the end, Trump is one of those people who thinks he knows everything, making him the easiest sucker to roll right into doing what the Democrats want done.
At least with Hillary in office, we can at least resist her. Trump on the other hand, as you just did, will exert force on people support what he decides to do, and then you have the situation where the Republicans are starting at the negotiations at the 1 yard line of the Democrats and giving up concessions from there.
Simply put, your argument is stupid. Trump is disparaged because he is a Democrat, and a moron. Not because I have nothing better in life to do than attack am imbecile!

Posted by: astonerii at July 21, 2016 06:32 PM (o/DjS)

865
Pixy won't let me post the text but you can google Trump a cusses Cruz's father of helping JFK assassin Politico. They have one of his quotes.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:28 PM (8yZ+3)

I've read them all. He was referring to an Enquirer Article that linked Cruz's father to the group of anti-castro people handling out flyers. And I saw the pic they referred to. And he inferred Cruz's Father knew and hung out with Oswald. That is false as far as I know and the person in the picture has never been identified as Cruz's father. Trump is a jackass for even mentioning it. But no where is there a direct quote from trump accusing Cruz's Father of being in involved in the JFK assassination. You find one let me know.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 21, 2016 06:32 PM (Ozsfq)

866 839 >>Globalist vs nationalist. You think that nationalism is somehow anti-conservative. The definition of a conservative is one who wants to conserve traditional values. Nationalism, not globalism, is the traditional value.

That is a simplified Trumpian argument. I am absolutely for putting the country first, always have been. I do believe that America is a unique place and that is why we have become the beacon of the world.

But I don't believe in the idiotic economic policies that Trump has been spewing. Protectionism does not work, has never worked and will not work just because Trump does it. Conservatism does not mean you enact failed policies that will actually make the economy and the plight of the average worker worse.

Could we negotiate better deals? Of course. That was a big reason for my support of Romney who actually has made a lot of money doing deals. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with Trump when he is dead wrong.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (/tuJf)

++++

Protectionism was the trade system in place for much of this country's history. Until the progressives brought in the income tax, the federal government was funded through tariffs. This country was extremely successful before it started down the free trade road, and the rhetoric that protectionism has ever been proved to be a failure is nothing but a fairy tale told by globalists.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 06:33 PM (R+30W)

867 "But what I must insist you cannot do -- what i will not permit you to do -- is fantasize that while a Trump supporter is resonsible for the gaffes and disasters of a President Trump, you are somehow innocent of the purges and witchhunts of a President Hillary."

No shit. Not voting and then bitching about it is a cop out. Vote or shut the fuck up.

Posted by: guy who needs his ears cleaned at July 21, 2016 06:33 PM (BO/km)

868 Off dirty-eared sock

Posted by: freaked at July 21, 2016 06:34 PM (BO/km)

869 Btw, I'm not never trump. I haven't made up my mind if I can vote for this loud mouthed authoritarian ignoramus with little respect for our system of government.

You wanted to defeat Hillary? Should have kept that in mind with your primary vote.

Posted by: Lily at July 21, 2016 06:35 PM (JOAfg)

870 NGU, I already said I'm over it. But here's what he actually said:

"(Cruz's) father was with Lee Harvey Oswalr prior to Oswald being, you know, shot. I mean the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this, right, prior to his being shot? And nobody even brings it up...What was he doing - what was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death? Before the shooting? It's horrible."

It was a shitbag thing to say. In a normal political cycle, it might have hurt the speaker. This wasn't a normal cycle, and the primary is over - no need to re-fight the Trump-Cruz wars. I'm pulling the level for Trump. I advocate for my fellow Cruz fans to do the same. It doesn't mean that I like, respect, or trust Trump - it just means he's the best choice this November.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 06:35 PM (kumBu)

871 Lily: "You can't just finegle your favorite guy into position with out regard to how everyone else in the party feels about him..."

I don't understand that. There was the entire primary system with millions of votes and almost as many presidential aspirants. The majority of party consensus put Trump where he is. And one cannot possibly say Trump was the Establishment choice.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:35 PM (1CroS)

872 I'm going through a crate of kleenex a week. My kid is old enough to start asking why I spend so much time in the bathroom. I really, really need a job.

Hillary 2016.

Posted by: Anthony Weiner, on the cum-back trail at July 21, 2016 06:36 PM (yMXxL)

873 moon over vermont

I get you. My son has been in Japan and S. Korea (Mostly Korea) the past 4.5 years. It has been tough to say the least with Obummer as CIC. He hates Americans and he hates our military. Hillary loves power more than anything, and she proved in Benghazi she has no problem sacrificing our brave for her own purposes. (Obama too) She will be a HORRIBLE CIC, maybe even worse than Obama. Donald Trump is a lot of things, but he loves America, and he respects our military leaders. His military decisions will come from that frame of mind, so no matter what happens, we will be in a better place with him than with who we have now, or the Hildabeast.

Posted by: small town girl at July 21, 2016 06:36 PM (vK64M)

874 No, A**hole

I am not responsible.

Trump is. He needs to earn my vote. If he listens to you, which I doubt, tell him to be a serious candidate.

Show he is serious about being President of the US and knows something other than mindless tweeting. Demonstrate a commitment to things Conservative care about. Don't weasel word his Supreme Court choices as "a list of people I 'might' consider" - Say I will pick from that list. Talk about concrete and realistic steps to stop the flow of illegal immigrant that he might actually do that will make a tangible different - not his stupid 'wall'. State what changes in economic policy he will fight for to achieve his stated aims.

Hillary is the Democrat's problem. Trump is ours. I don't owe him s**t. He owes me a serious candidate that I can trust. He hasn't done that, so it is his problem - not mine.

Posted by: Smokeless at July 21, 2016 06:36 PM (8164H)

875 Own Hillary's SCOTUS.
That's all on you.
Posted by: eleven at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (qUNWi)

For Hillary to win she actually has to GET votes.
Wouldn't people who voted FOR her somehow be more responsible than people do didn't?

No, clearly not. Clearly it's NOT on the people who gave her votes, and is ALL on people who did NOT give her votes.

Why is that again?
You don't clarify why this inane random bullcrap is your argument. want to clarify how that math works?

Posted by: gekkobear at July 21, 2016 06:36 PM (kq7Of)

876 They lost me last night. I'm 54, I have voted in every election since 1980. I no longer recognize the GOP, they obviously don't recognize what they once stood for. I will not be voting in November.

Posted by: uppity conservative at July 21, 2016 06:37 PM (ApnJf)

877 Posted by: Lily at July 21, 2016 06:35 PM (JOAfg)

Well said! Signal that virtue. Loud and proud!!

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:37 PM (WVsWD)

878 Protectionism does not work, has never worked and
will not work just because Trump does it. Conservatism does not mean you
enact failed policies that will actually make the economy and the
plight of the average worker worse.





Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (/tuJf)

How has global free trade worked out? Wages have been stagnant for decades. Participation in the world force is abysmal. This is what you don't get. It's been tried and it's failed. Your dogma is dead.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:37 PM (xmQSf)

879 699
I'm going to vote for Trump, but there will be some hell to pay if he
fails to go after the Clintons as hard as he went after Cruz.

Posted by: Realityman at July 21, 2016 06:04 PM

No there won't.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 06:38 PM (aRUb8)

880 rickl: "People will be jumping overboard."

I'd be inclined to throw some of them an anchor instead of a lifesaver.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:38 PM (1CroS)

881 But I don't believe in the idiotic economic
policies that Trump has been spewing. Protectionism does not work, has
never worked and will not work just because Trump does it. Conservatism
does not mean you enact failed policies that will actually make the
economy and the plight of the average worker worse.



Could we negotiate better deals? Of course. That was a big reason
for my support of Romney who actually has made a lot of money doing
deals. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with Trump when he is dead
wrong.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2016 06:27 PM (/tuJf)


Horsefeathers. Protectionist policy is what built this country into an industrial superpower. We lost that status because of our current economic policies. In the name of free trade, we're trying to play on a level playing field with people who are engaged in currency manipulation and are subsidizing their industries. There's no point in trying to play an honest game when your opponent is cheating, and no virtue in losing.

We don't have free trade. Never have. Right now, we have ideological blindness that is making our economists refuse to see the realities of the situation, which are that several strategically necessary industries are being gutted by their boneheaded policies.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 06:39 PM (J+mig)

882 From the day I arrived in America, I've loathed sociopath Hillary Clinton with a white-hot passion.

But Donald Trump shows every sign of being stupider, stubborner and more sociopathic, than Hillary. I attack him in the tiniest hope that crumbling polls will force his handlers to roll him away from the crazy. I want him humbled. Otherwise, he's President Martin Sheen from The Dead Zone and we're all doomed.

Failing that, I prefer the loathsome Hillary. But I'll vote for Gary Johnson.

Posted by: Spellcheck at July 21, 2016 06:39 PM (HKBpI)

883 "All choices have consequences. By supporting Trump, I am responsible for the consequences of a Trump victory -- and those consequences could indeed be dire."

Dire he says. How telling. Look everyone with a brain, that has even one serious principled viewpoint that can be labeled 'conservative' KNOWS full well that Trump is a raging dumpster fire of a candidate. In what should have been the most easily winnable election in 20+ years, against the weakest candidate the Democrats have run since Dukakis, the GOP chose.......Donald J Trump. Oh but's those of us that refuse to support yet another RINO are to blame. To hell with that.

Posted by: Shrillbilly at July 21, 2016 06:39 PM (Sa86K)

884 "His father was with Lee Harvet Oswald prior to Oswald being - you know shot. I mean the whole thing is ridiculous, what is this, right prior to his being shot and nobody talks about it. I mean, what was he doing? What was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald before the death, before the shooting. It's horrible"

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:39 PM (8yZ+3)

885 So many new nics. DNC/Soros must be writing checks again.

Posted by: Soona at July 21, 2016 06:39 PM (Fmupd)

886 The majority of party consensus put Trump where he is. And one cannot possibly say Trump was the Establishment choice.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:35 PM (1CroS)

Yes, he got a clear majority; 40% of the primary voters picked him.
A huge majority, and almost 41% which would be an even bigger majority.
...
What does the word majority mean again?
I know we're using it; but I'm not clear what it means.

Does it mean "vote tally"?
And Trump's majority was a bigger than Cruz's majority?
Yeah, that must be it given how we're using it.

Hooray for learning words by context!

Posted by: gekkobear at July 21, 2016 06:39 PM (kq7Of)

887 >>>You know, we always fight about that and never fight about whether hot dogs should be all beef or beef and pork.<<<

What about boiled vs. grilled? If you're eating boiled dogs on steamed buns with ketchup, you're one step removed from Stalin's camps, my friend.

Posted by: Fritz at July 21, 2016 06:41 PM (vXmOS)

888 "The reason I'm given this choice between two pieces of shit is because 12 million democrats voted in open primaries to make "Dog Shit Deluxe" the Republican Choice for Dinner. Only 3.3 million assholes voted for that dickweed before there wasn't a choice anymore. Then there wasn't any kind of responsibility in action."

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 21, 2016 06:21 PM (c1VpD)

False and nonsensical argument. Many of Trump's biggest victories (e.g., FL, PA, NY) are closed primaries. And NY mathematically eliminated Cruz, so the fact that it was "over," only points out how badly he was being thrashed before it was over. The truth is, Trump beat Cruz in the South, and if it was a two-man race there's NO EVIDENCE that things would have been any different (except in TX).

You are a buffoon, but your post does do a pretty good job of showing a typical example of a nevertrump "conservative" intellectual. Good at calling other people "Trumpanzees," but not very good at knowing what the fuck actually happened, let alone why it did. Amusing.

PS - Cruz can't beat the GOPe and the Trump voters at the same time. He will face a primary in 2018, and if he survives it-- he'll be absolutely annihilated if he tries to run in 2020.

#AlwaysTrump #MAGA #FuckCruzInTheAssHard

Posted by: trickamsterdam at July 21, 2016 06:41 PM (kjCXP)

889
Is this bc of the Instalaunch?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 21, 2016 06:42 PM (iQIUe)

890 Personal attack on aisle 888...

Posted by: doomed, the voice on the intercom at July 21, 2016 06:43 PM (bGLSw)

891 A great post. Very accurate. We are in an era where no one takes responsibility. We must again start taking responsibility for the choices we make. Life is about choices and choices will always have consequences.

Posted by: Brian at July 21, 2016 06:43 PM (vFrbB)

892 "So many new nics. DNC/Soros must be writing checks again."

They should hire Ace to write them some better scripts.

Yawwwnnnn....

Where were we?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:43 PM (WVsWD)

893 1 It's funny how easily "Republicans" will criticize Obama for not having the foresight, wisdom, brains, etc. to see the unintended consequences of his actions, and yet they refuse to see their own.

Even Obama gets this one, gang. A non-vote for Trump is a win for Hillary. Even President 4Putt gets this... why don't you?
Posted by: RobM1981 at July 21, 2016 04:22 PM (VVBN7)

True, but I don't have to like voting for him, and I resent the demand that I celebrate this. And I will continue to call him and his followers out when they're being assholes.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 21, 2016 06:44 PM (l7VAC)

894 We are in an era where no one takes responsibility. We must again start
taking responsibility for the choices we make. Life is about choices and
choices will always have consequences.

* * *

The problem now is more along the lines of having choices you don't want forced upon you, and choices you would make punishable by heavy fine.

Posted by: doomed at July 21, 2016 06:44 PM (bGLSw)

895 Protectionism was the trade system in place for
much of this country's history. Until the progressives brought in the
income tax, the federal government was funded through tariffs. This
country was extremely successful before it started down the free trade
road, and the rhetoric that protectionism has ever been proved to be a
failure is nothing but a fairy tale told by globalists.




Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 06:33 PM (R+30W)


You hit the nail on the head. It worked, it worked astoundingly well, and it only stopped working when we started changing the formula.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 06:45 PM (J+mig)

896 PS - Cruz can't beat the GOPe and the Trump voters at the same time. He will face a primary in 2018, and if he survives it-- he'll be absolutely annihilated if he tries to run in 2020.

#AlwaysTrump #MAGA #FuckCruzInTheAssHard
Posted by: trickamsterdam at July 21, 2016 06:41 PM (kjCXP)

But Trump can beast Hillary with 40% of the GOP?
And you're so sure of that you'll do your damnedest to make certain the other 60% of the GOP stay the fuck away from your toxic idiocy?

Ok... Let me know how that works out for you.

Posted by: gekkobear at July 21, 2016 06:45 PM (kq7Of)

897 gekkobear: "Hooray for learning words by context!"

Obtusely ignoring delegate count which is how the choice is selected. Good job.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:45 PM (1CroS)

898 Posted by: Lily at July 21, 2016 06:31 PM (JOAfg)

+1

Hillary as the Democrat nominee in 2016 has been per-ordained since 2008. Perhaps keeping her out of the White House should have taken precedence over giving the finger to the establishment during the primary.

But point taken, ace. I've done my best to avoid pointing out Trump's flaws since it became apparent he would be the nominee - I'm not voting for him but have no desire to facilitate a Hillary victory.

FWIW, I didn't vote for Romney either. Government run health care is a line in the sand I cannot cross and once again a big reason why I refuse to cast a ballot for Trump.

Thank God I live in Texas and my vote doesn't matter.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at July 21, 2016 06:45 PM (fn3+8)

899 #AlwaysTrump #MAGA #FuckCruzInTheAssHard
Posted by: trickamsterdam at July 21, 2016 06:41 PM (kjCXP)

And shit like this isn't very persuasive.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 21, 2016 06:45 PM (l7VAC)

900 Does anyone want to argue why the man who gave today's interview deserves to be anywhere near the White House?

Trump supporters need to start making the case that, even though their leader vociferously denigrates America, happily supports Islamic dictators, and off-handedly betrays allies and almost guarantees a European war if he is elected, voting for him is obviously more moral then not voting.

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 06:46 PM (mFkVC)

901 What's the motivation? What's in it for Trump? He
has exchanged his celebrity for infamy, and why? What does he get out of
it. Fill in that blank intelligently and I'll think much better of you.



Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:11 PM (xmQSf)

He'll have a great deal of influence over business decisions that will make him money in the long run?...he's doing it because he's bored?..it's the same reason that people climb Mt Everest....because it's there to do?What "infamy" are you referring to? Would it be similar to the infamy that Obama has experienced with FF..the IRS scandals..the match he lit to the Mid East..the doubling of the debt in 8 years?? The new race war he has given birth to and continues to nurture? People have become blind. Thats why Trump is the nominee, imo.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 06:46 PM (aRUb8)

902 "Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:39 PM (8yZ+3)"

Heh, looks like we both got the same quote and had to re-type it manually to satisfy Pixy and the Hamsters.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 06:46 PM (kumBu)

903 It's Instalanche, not Instalaunch. Think "an avalanche in the number of viewers".

It's one of those words that morphed, like "boatload" became "buttload".

Posted by: rickl at July 21, 2016 06:46 PM (sdi6R)

904 "But Trump can beast Hillary with 40% of the GOP? "

Cruz could win with 25%?

Oh drats I forgot.

Every non vote for the carny barker was in reality a vote for Ted.

Iz sowwy.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 06:47 PM (WVsWD)

905 "John Adams is a bald, blind ,toothless, hermaphroditic cripple." Maybe we have just come full circle.

Posted by: Ben Had at July 21, 2016 06:47 PM (Pmv65)

906 And shit like this isn't very persuasive.
Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 21, 2016 06:45 PM (l7VAC)


And it's been posted over and over again for at least nine months.

I WONDER WHY PEOPLE ARE STILL FIGHTING?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 06:48 PM (wB8Tg)

907 Ban please on aisle 888, ad hominem attacks. Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 21, 2016 06:48 PM (c1VpD)

908 And if Trump wins, I predict his voters will very quickly begin denying they have any moral responsibility for him. These two lines will be very common:

"I only voted for him to stop Hillary, I never really supported him"

AND

"Well, nobody thought he would do THAT. I can't be blamed for it."

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 06:48 PM (mFkVC)

909 864 "Trump does not know the constitution. Hillary knows more about the document than Trump does.
Trump does not know Christianity. Hillary knows more about the religion that Trump does.
This is not to say anything good about Hillary,...,"

Umm, M'kay. You're making Ace's point. If she knows the about Christianity, it's because she's been busy as a bee profiling her sworn enemy. Trump has evangelicals to thank in some measure for his nomination. In addition, Ben Carson is no dummy. I trust his opinion wrt who is most evil.

Her hero dedicated the RFR to Lucifer for goodness sakes!

Nope, this is the general election. The LIB folks have a point but you simply cannot keep running down Trump and claim it's not helping Hillary. That's delusional

Posted by: Cooldawg at July 21, 2016 06:48 PM (5FICd)

910 "And one cannot possibly say Trump was the Establishment choice."

Really? Who did the establishment get behind when the primary was down to Trump and Cruz? Lucifer in the flesh ring a bell? If he was killed on the Senate floor no senator would vote to convict?

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at July 21, 2016 06:48 PM (fn3+8)

911 The nevertrump faggots are campaigning for Bill Clinton's "wife". It's as simple as that. These self worshiping asswipes are praying she wins so they can then say they were right all along. Trump is going to win. The Ben Shapiro/Jim Treacher/Jonah Goldberg types are then going to enjoy the same sort of power and influence that heroes like Christopher Hitchens has been bathing in since he endorsed Brakabama.

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 06:50 PM (mHKj2)

912 He'll have a great deal of influence over business
decisions that will make him money in the long run?...he's doing it
because he's bored?..it's the same reason that people climb Mt
Everest....because it's there to do?What "infamy" are you referring to?
Would it be similar to the infamy that Obama has experienced with
FF..the IRS scandals..the match he lit to the Mid East..the doubling of
the debt in 8 years?? The new race war he has given birth to and
continues to nurture? People have become blind. Thats why Trump is the
nominee, imo.


Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 06:46 PM (aRUb
All it cost him was his reputation, and the reputation of his children. This is a man that had money, and you're saying he threw all that away for more money. It's certainly possible, but none of you address what this has cost him personally in your calculus and that's why it never rings true.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:50 PM (xmQSf)

913 Trump supporters need to start making the case that...

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 06:46 PM (mFkVC)


More importantly they need to make the case *to* the people who are unconvinced.

Instead of telling them to fuck off, because that's what's happening.

And they are.

Opportunity is pounding on the door and screaming hysterically, and people are shouting so loud they can't hear it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 06:51 PM (wB8Tg)

914
How has global free trade worked out? Wages have
been stagnant for decades. Participation in the world force is abysmal.
This is what you don't get. It's been tried and it's failed. Your dogma
is dead.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:37 PM (xmQSf)---Wage stagnation is a myth. You've just swallowed the marxist economists myths. People who peddle this sort of thing were also staunch supporters of the Chavista regime in Venezuela till they become silent about it.
More importantly, standards of living have risen spectacularly, at least in open economies (not so much in closed ones, like North Korea, or Cuba, or China till the early 90s). And they would rise even more if global trade was even more free.

Posted by: Alabi at July 21, 2016 06:52 PM (89I+i)

915 I might show up for the Portman/Strickland race. But I'm not touching the presidential race. Not voting for Trump isn't a vote for Hillary. If anything, it helps Trump that I'm exercising enough restraint to not shade in the box beside her name. The party will have a new candidate in four years or be gone. I honestly don't care anymore if this is just going to be the party of Trump and like-minded assholes. I'm not a Democrat. I can vote in years where there isn't a presidential election and voice my concerns then.

Posted by: Brett at July 21, 2016 06:52 PM (eyZZt)

916 Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at July 21, 2016 06:46 PM (kumB

F pixy!

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 21, 2016 06:52 PM (8yZ+3)

917 It is posts like this that prevent the possibility of a Johnson Presidency. Gary Johnson is preferable to Trump and Hillary and only needs to win a couple of states to throw the election to the House. If the people, like the author, that didn't like Trump and don't like Hillary made an effort to push Johnson he could win Colorado, Utah, and New Mexico.

Posted by: nevertrump at July 21, 2016 06:53 PM (9Hh6Q)

918 going to enjoy the same sort of power and influence
that heroes like Christopher Hitchens has been bathing in since he
endorsed Brakabama.
Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 06:50 PM (mHKj2)
Chris Hitchens was a life-long leftist, and he died in 2011. You might be confusing him with his brother, Peter Hitchens, who is alive and right-wing.

And they're both British.

Posted by: My Ridiculously Circuitous Plan at July 21, 2016 06:53 PM (FohCt)

919 911 on 911, please.

Posted by: doomed at July 21, 2016 06:53 PM (bGLSw)

920 Tariffs were pretty high throughout our history until well into the Great Depression. After 1934 a series of bilateral tariff reductions were negotiated without doing much to help the economy. GATT in 1947 was as much to aid the West (Western Europe, Japan) and keep them out of Soviet hands than to benefit the US much though it was also to spur export-demand to prevent a major post-war downturn. It was essentially a foreign aid program.

Then, somehow, such free trade-type policies become an accepted religious faith.

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 06:54 PM (NUqwG)

921 828
===Remember Perot? He took one for Team-Billionaire

twice so that Billybob could win with under 50% of the vote. And at one

point in '92, Perot actually looked like he had a shot at winning -- and

then by some strange coincidence he piped off some off-the-wall

bullshit about Bush trying to "ruin his daughter's wedding." It was just

bizarre. Yet, he fucked up just enough and did well enough to make sure

that both he and Bush lost.




Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 06:20 PM (iRJ+A)

That's some
Zero Hedge level conspiracy theory, but it's still not a motivation,
although Perot wasn't smeared as an evil, stupid, racist, so he hasn't
sacrificed his reputation the way Trump has.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:24 PM (xmQSf)

=====Conspiracy theory or not -- as the future unfolds, you can watch for some milestones and make your own decisions.
If Trump gets her by the political throat and yanks her political adams apple out, we will all know. If he has the opportunity to do so and for some reason just doesn't get it done, we will all know that, too.

Posted by: jc at July 21, 2016 06:54 PM (iRJ+A)

922 I don't mind if good morons and Ettes disagree with me about politics. It's the goddamn longbow fans who are a disgrace. and people who put ketchup on hot dogs and Miracle Whip on anything should be shot with flaming arrows fired from crossbows.


Otherwise, I'm pretty much an angel of tolerance.

Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V. (Brandishing ampersands) at July 21, 2016 06:55 PM (P8951)

923 More importantly, standards of living have risen
spectacularly, at least in open economies (not so much in closed ones,
like North Korea, or Cuba, or China till the early 90s). And they would
rise even more if global trade was even more free.


Posted by: Alabi at July 21, 2016 06:52 PM (89I+i)
Yeah, the GOP has grown the economy in every free country, and some not so free, in the world except for the U.S., but unfortunately for you that's the only one that counts in American elections.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:55 PM (xmQSf)

924
Let me play too.


Those of You Who Have Decided to Not Vote:

Think about what you're doing. Even if your voting district/state seems reliably committed to Hillary!!, vote for Trump anyway.

American election turnouts are low; are they ever above 50%? A Hillary!! win by 5% or more will discourage those who do not vote, and 2020 will likely be another 2016 D win in your voting district/state. Discouragement is a powerful weapon.

But a Hillary!! win by 2% or less ... just think, if you had voted, Hillary might have lost. Clearly, a squeak-win could have been a loss, and likely will be next time, if you and others do not get discouraged.


To The NeverTrumpers:

There will be only 2 candidates for President on the November ballot who have a chance of winning.

If you do not vote for Trump, you permit Hillary to win. It's that simple, and I've been commenting thusly since last September 2015, maybe sooner.

If you cause others to not vote, or cast a protest vote, you permit Hillary to win. It's that simple.

A protest vote is bullshit, particularly when there will be a winner. This is one of those situations where sides will be chosen, and everyone has to play.

Ask all the questions, legitimate or not, that you wish, but remember, if Trump does not win, Hillary will.

Posted by: Arbalest at July 21, 2016 06:56 PM (FlRtG)

925 Posted by: Alabi at July 21, 2016 06:52 PM (89I+i)



Who's standard of living is rising? Not ours. Not since the 1980s. These policies are failing.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 06:56 PM (J+mig)

926 895
Protectionism was the trade system in place for

much of this country's history. Until the progressives brought in the

income tax, the federal government was funded through tariffs. This

country was extremely successful before it started down the free trade

road, and the rhetoric that protectionism has ever been proved to be a

failure is nothing but a fairy tale told by globalists.






Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 21, 2016 06:33 PM (R+30W)

----

This country was rich because it was always much less protectionist than the others. And that's the reason why it's still extremely successful, by any reality based metric.

All protectionism has ever done for America was the Great Recession.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 06:56 PM (89I+i)

927 All it cost him was his reputation, and the
reputation of his children. This is a man that had money, and you're
saying he threw all that away for more money. It's certainly possible,
but none of you address what this has cost him personally in your
calculus and that's why it never rings true.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:50 PM (xmQSf)

Don't know if you've noticed or not, but people's attention span is quite short and their appetite for distraction is quite advanced.
What exactly has it cost him personally?? "Trump" was a name in the back of most peoples minds...and not necessarily admired.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 06:56 PM (aRUb8)

928 Baron Von Ottomatic: "Who did the establishment get behind when the primary was down to Trump and Cruz?"

Neither were establishment choices, but the primary voters put Trump on top.

But, following your logic here, had Cruz won, wouldn't he have been the Establishment choice? Because, by definition, the winner is its choice though the level of antagonism from leadership must be somewhat divined.

Again, Trump was not an Establishment choice; and neither would have been Cruz... up until the convention had the will of the primaries imposed upon it.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:57 PM (1CroS)

929 More importantly they need to make the case *to* the people who are unconvinced.

Instead of telling them to fuck off, because that's what's happening.

And they are.

Opportunity is pounding on the door and screaming hysterically, and people are shouting so loud they can't hear it.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 21, 2016 06:51 PM (wB8Tg)

Exactly. You're not swaying me with hashtags lie #FuckCruzInTheAss.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 21, 2016 06:57 PM (l7VAC)

930 PS

And no, numbnuts, we who have reservations about Trump are not, as your disingenuous title suggests, 'advocating for a Hillary Presidency'. We are pleading for a serious Trump presidency. How about this. If we know that a Clinton Presidency will be a disaster, and we have to bear moral responsibility for the (very real) possibility of an equally but perhaps very different disastrous Trump presidency, that maybe people pressure Trump not to be a self evident dumb ass. Then, Trump being 'very smart', will listen to people who care and know about some of the many things he does not nor appears to care about not knowing, and will not do the kind of dumb things that you ask us to accept moral responsibility for in choosing him. It is not that we want Clinton, but what we do want is actually a successful Trump - something that is very unlikely but avoidable - if he were to actually care about anything but the biggest branding exercise in history.

You want me to accept a willing fool for a known criminal. I ask that he not be a fool. Is that too much to ask.

Posted by: Smokeless at July 21, 2016 06:59 PM (8164H)

931 If Clinton had said the things Trump said in today's NYT article, most here would be absolutely losing their minds. But noone seems to even want to discuss it. People really seem to think Trump is just some blank "Not-Hillary" void.

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 06:59 PM (mFkVC)

932

GOP Speeches start at 7:30 Eastern.

Napped, watered, breaded; put me in coach. I'm ready for the big game.

Posted by: Pick Baggerly at July 21, 2016 07:00 PM (7oN1i)

933 Is that too much to ask.

Posted by: Smokeless at July 21, 2016 06:59 PM (8164H)

Yes.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 07:01 PM (aRUb8)

934 "Oh but's those of us that refuse to support yet another RINO are to blame. To hell with that"

Like Ace said, it's a hard choice. I'm not sure yet. But I acknowledge that if I do not vote for Trump and Hilary wins, when she nominates a 50 year old SCOTUS leftist whose ideology makes RBG look like Ted Cruz, and who will be there till my son is an old man, I will own a tiny piece of that.

Likewise, if I do vote for Trump, I acknowledge that when he stubbornly plunges headlong into a situation that calls for a cool head or decides that hey, Obamacare is actually better than the alternative, a little bit of that will be on me.

It sucks, but there it is. We need to own our choice and the consequences.

Posted by: RM at July 21, 2016 07:01 PM (U3LtS)

935
Who's standard of living is rising? Not ours. Not since the 1980s. These policies are failing.


Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 06:56 PM (J+mig)
-----
If your standard of living hasn't risen since the 80s, you've seriously failed at life. The vast majority of Americans live much better today than in the 80s. As I read some time ago in an article, watching sitcoms from the 80s, featuring middle-class suburban families that would worry about the price of the butter is a great illustration for those who don't have the knowledge to correctly interpret economic data.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:02 PM (89I+i)

936 What really burns me is that Cruz could have turned that speech into a smashing triumph and still not endorse Trump just by changing four words in his speech.

Instead of telling voters to go into the voting booth this November and vote with their conscience up and down the ticket, he should have said to go into the voting booh this November and make America great again up and down the ticket.

The crowd would have gone absolutely nuts, and yet he doesn't actually say anything substantially different than he does: vote for whoever you think is best for America.

It's just that one formulation copies a Trump slogan, and the other copies the #nevertrump slogan from the delegate unbinding fight.

He picked his words with malice aforethought, and while Trump sure as hell has earned it from him, that wasn't the time, place, or manner to cause trouble for Trump.

(The time, place, and manner to cause trouble for Trump would be on the Senate Floor when he's President - revenge, best served cold, etc)

Posted by: Locarno at July 21, 2016 07:03 PM (HhYvn)

937 Cruz never denied his dad was in the photo, and never explained why his dad was in the photo.

I'm curious about it myself.

Why are these questions off limits?

I mean, it's not as if we were asking to see his colonoscopy report.

Posted by: franksalterego at July 21, 2016 07:03 PM (Cd+Fa)

938 "The nevertrump faggots are campaigning for Bill Clinton's "wife". It's as simple as that."

If winning against Hillary was your biggest goal, you should've chosen your candidate more wisely. it seemed to me the trump voters were more interested in sticking it to the establishment in the primary than choosing a candidate we could all accept.

Your guy won with a plurality but not a majority. I'm no fan of the establishment, but trump is a terrible choice even for me.
His primary voters have chosen poorly.

Posted by: Lily at July 21, 2016 07:04 PM (JOAfg)

939 If your standard of living hasn't risen since the
80s, you've seriously failed at life. The vast majority of Americans
live much better today than in the 80s. As I read some time ago in an
article, watching sitcoms from the 80s, featuring middle-class suburban
families that would worry about the price of the butter is a great
illustration for those who don't have the knowledge to correctly
interpret economic data.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:02 PM (89I+i)
Low prices is all you have to offer, but you never manage to create a job that pays above min wage. It's the same old tune.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:05 PM (xmQSf)

940 931
If Clinton had said the things Trump said in today's NYT article, most
here would be absolutely losing their minds. But noone seems to even
want to discuss it. People really seem to think Trump is just some
blank "Not-Hillary" void.

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 06:59 PM (mFkVC)

I missed it. What did he say?

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 07:06 PM (aRUb8)

941 Wait... Ace has said, on twitter, that one of the nice things about a Trump presidency is that he and other conservatives won't be compelled to defend it.

But since he is going to vote Trump, won't he be "morally responsible" for every action he takes?

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 07:06 PM (mFkVC)

942 Cruz has been an ally to conservatives. He will be as long the folks of Texas place him in the senate.

But he screwed up. Think DJT was harsh on your family? Take a 4 year test drive with the pantsuit.

Ted thinks it's the seventh inning stretch when in reality, it's the bottom of the ninth with two outs.

Posted by: Cooldawg at July 21, 2016 07:07 PM (5FICd)

943 Low prices is all you have to offer, but you never manage to create a job that pays above min wage. It's the same old tune.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:05 PM (xmQSf)


You can't run an economy based on selling each other cheap shit made in China. It's a snake eating its own tail. It does not create wealth. It's an entire economy of rent seeking, forever consuming without producing. It is fundamentally broken.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:07 PM (J+mig)

944 Yeah, the GOP has grown the economy in every free
country, and some not so free, in the world except for the U.S., but
unfortunately for you that's the only one that counts in American
elections.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 06:55 PM (xmQSf)

-----
Hey, not just the GOP, your marxist pals in the Democrat Party were in power for quite some time - but even them understand how catastrophic would be to adopt protectionism and how it'd put them out of power for a couple of generations, hence why they've always pushed for it in campaigns while pursuing free trade policies when in power - remember Obama saying he was going to denunciate NAFTA while campaigning in 2008 and his economic assessor Austan Goolsbee quickly assuring the Canadians that was just campaign talk to fool the uneducated simpletons (like you)?
If you think the US economy hasn't grown, I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe read less Marxist economists?

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:07 PM (89I+i)

945 I missed it. What did he say?
Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 07:06 PM (aRUb

He praised Erdogan's purges, said the US is too messed up to have any moral authority to comment on Turkey, and blamed US troops for a divided Korea in a negative sense.

He also gave Putin a greenlight to invade our NATO allies by saying as President he wouldn't feel compelled to defend the Baltic NATO states, which Gingrich confirmed in interviews this morning.

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 07:09 PM (mFkVC)

946 If Hilary wins, it is the Trump campaign's fault for eliminating actual non-Leftist opposition through threats, lies, and media complicity.

If you wanted a non-Leftist, pro-Constitution President, then Trump was not ever a possibility. If you wanted to ensure that the United States would descend into further Tyranny and destroy the Rule of Law forever - then Trump was the BEST choice in the Primaries.

Anyone who voted for Trump in the primary season ensured and supported Tyranny over Liberty by eliminating any possibility of any major candidate saying "Nope" to Autocratic Rule by Decree and the death of the Constitution. Trump or Hilary - the decision is due to the Trump voters alone. They made the choice of "Not America" over "America" back in the primaries.

There. That's the same reasoning with actually reasonable premises.


Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 21, 2016 07:09 PM (c1VpD)

947 Democrats: "Your Emperor, Commodus, gives you..


The battle of Zama."

GOP neverTrump: "Next up at the Westminster Dog and Kennel Show, another exhibition of inbreds."

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at July 21, 2016 07:09 PM (Hm4tY)

948 936

Thanks, Really excellent points--particularly the Senate revenge angle.

Cruz just looked so inadequate in so many disturbing ways last night.

Posted by: malignantly aggrieved and economically useless at July 21, 2016 07:09 PM (3ZttN)

949
Low prices is all you have to offer, but you never manage to create a job that pays above min wage. It's the same old tune.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:05 PM (xmQSf)
----
People who can't get a job paying above min wage in this economy are basically unemployable. They're an economic drag. With more protectionism, you'd just have more of those combined with higher consumer prices and less investment.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:10 PM (89I+i)

950 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:02 PM (89I+i)

really FED data? The government has been cooking the books for decades now. Those statistics are worthless. Here is a good illustration. It's accepted wisdom that the markets hate instability, and yet as unstable as the world is today the markets make a new high every day.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:10 PM (xmQSf)

951 938 "The nevertrump faggots are campaigning for Bill Clinton's "wife". It's as simple as that."

If winning against Hillary was your biggest goal, you should've chosen your candidate more wisely. it seemed to me the trump voters were more interested in sticking it to the establishment in the primary than choosing a candidate we could all accept.

Your guy won with a plurality but not a majority. I'm no fan of the establishment, but trump is a terrible choice even for me.
His primary voters have chosen poorly.
Posted by: Lily at July 21, 2016 07:04 PM (JOAfg)

A *lot* of them got behind Trump specifically to destroy the GOP. Which is the only group with the wherewithal to beat Hillary. So if you destroy that, who do you *really* want to be President?

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 21, 2016 07:10 PM (l7VAC)

952 For a single solitary person, game theory says that voting is a waste of time. But people do get off their asses to vote for other reasons -- e.g. group solidarity.

2016 will be won and lost on which of two people with high negatives gets the better turnout. My bet has been on Trump for awhile, even knowing that many of my Private Idaho Conservative Betters would find some reason to stay home.

That used to include Ace, who's had about every position on Trump that you could possibly have, sometimes different ones on the same day. Let's see where he is tomorrow.

My bet is that Trump gets better turnout among his key cohorts than Hillary does with hers, and his are bigger. Like his fingers.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 07:11 PM (r1fLd)

953
You can't run an economy based on selling each
other cheap shit made in China. It's a snake eating its own tail. It
does not create wealth. It's an entire economy of rent seeking, forever
consuming without producing. It is fundamentally broken.


Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:07 PM (J+mig)
--------
People who want to live in a country that manufactures cheap shit in 2016 should move to China and benefit from the great standards of living of the median Chinese worker.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:11 PM (89I+i)

954 Trump wasn't my candidate for the nomination but I will vote for him now because the alternative is Hillary.

Posted by: Foxhuntingman at July 21, 2016 07:12 PM (SaLHT)

955 "A *lot* of them got behind Trump specifically to destroy the GOP."

If you said the GOPe then I'd agree with you. There is a difference.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 07:13 PM (r1fLd)

956 People who can't get a job paying above min wage in
this economy are basically unemployable. They're an economic drag. With
more protectionism, you'd just have more of those combined with higher
consumer prices and less investment.


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:10 PM (89I+i)

That is the future but not for the reasons you offer. If the factories come back they'll be mostly automated, and thus won't create any jobs. The problem for you is that those drags on the economy vote, and they're voting all over the world to scuttle you're globalism.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:13 PM (xmQSf)

957 No. Just, no. This whole argument is predicated on the idea that #NeverTrumpers are only opposed to Trump. Most of us are also #NeverHillary, and we spend and have spent plenty of time explaining to people why she is ALSO unacceptable. I can't be responsible for either, as I've advocated against both. Why are Trumpkins and #EventuallyTrumpers so invested in the idea that #NeverTrump is some front for secretly supporting Hillary? Are you just that dense?

Posted by: Wyatt at July 21, 2016 07:14 PM (xa4L0)

958 You can't run an economy based on selling each other cheap shit made in China. It's a snake eating its own tail. It does not create wealth. It's an entire economy of rent seeking, forever consuming without producing. It is fundamentally broken.
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:07 PM (J+mig)
-----------------------------
We can make up for it on volume of financial transactions!

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 07:14 PM (NUqwG)

959

really FED data? The government has been
cooking the books for decades now. Those statistics are worthless. Here
is a good illustration. It's accepted wisdom that the markets hate
instability, and yet as unstable as the world is today the markets make a
new high every day.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:10 PM (xmQSf)
----Well, then look at the markets. Or is the government also cooking the Dow Jones?
Anyone who thinks the world is particularly unstable today needs to read some history books. What makes you think the world is particularly unstable today? Compared to what era?

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:14 PM (89I+i)

960 Gary Johnson, Maybe?

Every time I think I can vote for him, he starts spouting crazy shit "open borders for Middle Eastern immigrants" and "Fundamentalist Islam isn't a threat."

Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 07:15 PM (uOtyQ)

961 Breitbart has already released Trump's speech.

No need for him to even show up now. Party is over, turn out the lights and go home.


Posted by: Pick Baggerly at July 21, 2016 07:16 PM (7oN1i)

962 Or is the government also cooking the Dow Jones?

Quantitative Easing.

Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 07:16 PM (uOtyQ)

963

That is the future but not for the reasons
you offer. If the factories come back they'll be mostly automated, and
thus won't create any jobs. The problem for you is that those drags on
the economy vote, and they're voting all over the world to scuttle
you're globalism.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:13 PM (xmQSf)
-----Then they'll become as poor as the Venezuelan poor, who struggle to feed their children one meal per day and not as poor as the American poor, who struggle to buy their children a new smartphone, game console or brand sneakers.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:16 PM (89I+i)

964 Anyone who thinks the world is particularly unstable
today needs to read some history books. What makes you think the world
is particularly unstable today? Compared to what era?


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:14 PM (89I+i)

Im done. I don't argue with the batshit insane.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:16 PM (xmQSf)

965 "he should have said to go into the voting booh this November and make America great again up and down the ticket. "

Brilliant. And it wouldn't have been an endorsement, technically.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 07:17 PM (r1fLd)

966
Anyone who thinks the world is particularly unstable
today needs to read some history books. What makes you think the world
is particularly unstable today? Compared to what era?


Everything is awesome!

Posted by: Lego Jones at July 21, 2016 07:18 PM (IqV8l)

967 the American poor, who struggle to buy their children a new smartphone, game console or brand sneakers.


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:16 PM (89I+i)

Why is there always a big socialist buried inside of every global free trader?

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:19 PM (xmQSf)

968 Gary Johnson 2016!!!!

of course I don't live in a swing state so I'm free to vote however I choose. Still, if I did live in a swing state...I'd probably still vote for Johnson.

This election needs to send a message that the two main parties are hopeless and we need some diversity of thought in Washington.

Posted by: Heath Williams at July 21, 2016 07:20 PM (ZQrUp)

969
Everything is awesome!



Posted by: Lego Jones at July 21, 2016 07:18 PM (IqV8l)


Im done. I don't argue with the batshit insane.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:16 PM (xmQSf)
----Ah, the true and tested formula of the coward know-nothings: when you realize you're out of arguments, run away and try to play the morally superior card with a sprinkle of snark and ad hominem .

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:21 PM (89I+i)

970 So, anyone want to make the case that the moral step is to vote for the anti-American Exceptionalism, anti-human rights, pro-dictator Trump, who today betrayed our staunch allies to Russia?

Explain the morality here.

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 07:21 PM (mFkVC)

971 We can make up for it on volume of financial transactions!

Posted by: RioBravo at July 21, 2016 07:14 PM (NUqwG)


Thanks man, that was good for a laugh.

Modern economists have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of wealth, and the difference between wealth and money.

Wealth is created when you make something that's worth more than the sum of its parts and the labor that went into creating it. This is the essence of Say's Law, which was articulated in one of the first scholarly commentaries on Smith's The Wealth of Nations. TL;DR, wealth is created at the point of production.

Modern economists seem to think that it's created at the point of sale, which is nonsense. All they're doing is taking a cut off of production done by somebody else, somewhere else. It's making a living off of production without contributing to it, the definition of rent-seeking.

You can have a lot of money, a lot of ones and zeroes in bank accounts, but as Communist economies always find out (especially Zimbabwe), as Kipling put it so well, you can have a lot of money but it won't be able to buy anything.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:22 PM (J+mig)

972
Why is there always a big socialist buried inside of every global free trader?


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:19 PM (xmQSf)
----
Huh? You're the one who wants more government intervention and the government protecting domestic rent-seekers at the expense of the consumers.

American poor have a very high standard of living for global patterns. The main reason for that being America has a very competitive, sophisticated and open economy. If the bulk of the American economy was manufacturing those sneakers and phones, it'd be the American middle-class struggling to buy them.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:24 PM (89I+i)

973 ----Ah, the true and tested formula of the coward
know-nothings: when you realize you're out of arguments, run away and
try to play the morally superior card with a sprinkle of snark and ad
hominem .


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:21 PM (89I+i)

You said the world isn't unstable, and while I admit that's a spectrum. We've entered brave new territory over the last 2 years, and if you can't acknowledge that then your either a liar, or stupid. You don't seem any more stupid than most so........

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:24 PM (xmQSf)

974 Maybe the Germans and French could get some Troops to defend the Baltic States?

Remember the French also have an independent nuclear deterrent. pooty-poot should be scared of that.

Shouldn't he?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 07:26 PM (WVsWD)

975 American poor have a very high standard of living
for global patterns. The main reason for that being America has a very
competitive, sophisticated and open economy. If the bulk of the American
economy was manufacturing those sneakers and phones, it'd be the
American middle-class struggling to buy them.


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:24 PM (89I+i)

I'm reconsidering what I said about you not being stupid. If you think the spending of the American poor is because of aa very competitive, sophisticated and open economy, and not the government, then you might be stupid.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:28 PM (xmQSf)

976 Suggest some threads on economic issues.

GDP Growth is my pick as the single most important economic statistic. But it's squirrely to determine, even when you're not trying to mislead about it.

We've had little GDP growth during the Obama years, and even less when you back out how the books have been cooked, how some GDP growth has been because of mandated spending, and how much of it has been borrowed. I'd guess that we've been actually declining by 1 to 2% each year in real terms, which is actually significant.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2016 07:28 PM (r1fLd)

977 84 Fox had a alert saying Hillary's VP pick is forthcoming
Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (bksJQ)

85 Cui Bono?
Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at July 21, 2016 04:37 PM (QM5S2)

That asshole? I thought Crooked Hillary was going to go with Castro or something.

Posted by: andycanuck at July 21, 2016 07:29 PM (RmrGn)

978 And if the economy is no longer producing wealth, when it gets to the point where there's no more manufacturing, it will come to a point where wealth is being destroyed (through obsolescence, normal wear and tear, misuse and accidents) faster than it's being created.

The service economy is voodoo economics.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:29 PM (J+mig)

979 Remember the French also have an independent nuclear deterrent. pooty-poot should be scared of that.

Shouldn't he?
Posted by: Tim in Illinois

----

Didn't he just buy a whole bunch of uranium from... somebody?

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 07:30 PM (aFQtB)

980
Modern economists have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of wealth, and the difference between wealth and money.

Wealth
is created when you make something that's worth more than the sum of
its parts and the labor that went into creating it. This is the essence
of Say's Law, which was articulated in one of the first scholarly
commentaries on Smith's The Wealth of Nations. TL;DR, wealth is created
at the point of production.

Modern economists seem to think that it's
created at the point of sale, which is nonsense. All they're doing is
taking a cut off of production done by somebody else, somewhere else.
It's making a living off of production without contributing to it, the
definition of rent-seeking.

You can have a lot of money, a lot of
ones and zeroes in bank accounts, but as Communist economies always
find out (especially Zimbabwe), as Kipling put it so well, you can have a
lot of money but it won't be able to buy anything.


Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:22 PM (J+mig)
----
Don't besmirch Adam Smith, that didn't believe in any of that poppycock, or even Say, that you clearly don't understand - the corollary of Say's law is that governments shouldn't impose any restrictions whatsoever in trade.What you're peddling is some stuff combining Marxist, early middle age economics and physiocracy.
By the way, Zimbabwe's economy is another example of the economic catastrophes of socialism and protectionism (both generally go hand in hand).


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:30 PM (89I+i)

981 974 Maybe the Germans and French could get some Troops to defend the Baltic States?

Remember the French also have an independent nuclear deterrent. pooty-poot should be scared of that.

Shouldn't he?
Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 07:26 PM (WVsWD)
-----------

So you oppose honoring our treaty obligations?

What do you think the result of that will be?

And what mad scenario do you have laid out where France and Germany (and presumably the UK) go to war with Russia and we aren't involved? What fantasy land is that?

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 07:30 PM (mFkVC)

982 Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:24 PM (89I+i)

Don't be shy, just come out and say guaranteed minimum income. It's where your road leads.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:31 PM (xmQSf)

983 This piece is absurd, and anyone with even a freshman understanding of logic can see that if my non-vote for Trump is a vote for Hillary then my non-vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump. Cancer is cancer. Nominate someone who isn't a dumpster fire if you want to make the 'moral case' for electing him.

Posted by: Paul Maul at July 21, 2016 07:32 PM (PqqEr)

984 Didn't he just buy a whole bunch of uranium from... somebody?

Posted by: RKae at July 21, 2016 07:30 PM (aFQtB)

He sure did. From the chelsea clinton legacy foundation I think.

#EUropafortheEUropians!

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 07:32 PM (WVsWD)

985 One of your best posts ever, Ace. I don't know who all you were fighting with on Twitter because I choose not to do Twitter. But I can pretty much guess because I've seen some people whose blogs and insights I once respected absolutely lose their shit over this and seem not to care that they have lost half (or more) of their long- time viewers/commenters over the past few months.

And then there's Wyatt up at #957 who obviously didn't read your post and is still making the same lame "don't blame meeeeeee" argument.

Posted by: corn and beans at July 21, 2016 07:32 PM (P5rVS)

986 Hayley nailed the NA but that 5 year old singing earlier was a hoot! Good prayer, nicely done, Reverand.

Posted by: Bebe Dahl at July 21, 2016 07:32 PM (yNyJy)

987

I'm reconsidering what I said about you not
being stupid. If you think the spending of the American poor is because
of aa very competitive, sophisticated and open economy, and not the
government, then you might be stupid.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:28 PM (xmQSf)
----
Well, my opinion hasn't changed: you're dumber than a sack of rocks.

I guess the Venezuelan government should just copy the American government and their poor could just be as rich as the American poor (which means that about 95% of the country will see their standards of living raised)! Why haven't they thought of that?? And Haiti and Mexico and most countries in the world, by that matter. Just do some redistribution through social transfers like the American govenrment does and the poor will have American poor standards of living!
Oh wait, they already do that? The reason the American poor are so rich is because non-poor Americans can pay so much more money in taxes than the non-poor in those countries? Oops... yeps, you're comically dumb.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:34 PM (89I+i)

988 Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:30 PM (89I+i)


So what you're saying is that we should keep trying to play an honest game against opponents who are cheating (through currency manipulation and subsidies), because... what? Because that's the purer form of economics?



Madness. It isn't working, it's never worked, and it's not about to start working.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:35 PM (J+mig)

989 "o you oppose honoring our treaty obligations?"

No I do not.

I oppose shouldering the obligations so EUropa can keep spending their money on mooslamic imigrants instead of their own defense.

Why do we have to defend them when they will not defend themselves?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 07:35 PM (WVsWD)

990 If it's supporting Hillary to write Ted Cruz on top of my ballot, meh. For me right now? That's fine. Not a damn day goes by this election cycle where I've not felt personally insulted by some trumpster fire's attempt to shame me for being a conservative and actually wanting conservative policies implemented in this country.

I've listened time and again to Trump spokespeople asked "so, what do you offer to conservatives who are uncomfortable and aren't sure your guy is conservative enough, and are on the fence and could be convinced?" And time and time again, the only damn answer I get from those official spokespeople is "either you're with us, or you're with Hillary. Get on board the Trump Train, or else."

And then the conman's delegates go and boo someone for saying "vote your conscience, vote for constitutional values," apparently completely oblivious that by doing so, they're conceding the point that their guy doesn't have any values and no one in good conscience can vote for him.

Enough. Stop trying to shame me into voting for your blowhard asshole liberal flim-flam artist who can't even be assed to give me a fig leaf to cover my self-deluding hopes that maybe, just maybe, that guy won't turn out to be as bad as the Democrats.

At this point, the best thing you can hope for is me writing Ted Cruz on my ballot. It's that or outright voting for Cankles McPantsuit. Your candidate and his corrupt, liberal campaign have personally alienated and shamed me for the last time. Stop it now, or I'll turn my dissent up from merely the 10 of voting third party/write-in and up to 11.

This convention is supposed to be about bringing us together. Who the hell thought booing the first politician I ever actually believed in was a good idea for winning my vote? To hell with it.

Posted by: Sayyid at July 21, 2016 07:35 PM (dQrTa)

991

Don't be shy, just come out and say guaranteed minimum income. It's where your road leads.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:31 PM (xmQSf)

----
Huh? Are you really that stupid? I've been saying guaranteed minimum income since I was in college and was persuaded by the arguments of Milton Friedman, Charles Murray and others in the early 90s.
We already have a de facto basic guaranteed income for that matter, it's just a stupidly inefficient one.
You're really clueless aren't you?

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:36 PM (89I+i)

992

So what you're saying is that we should keep
trying to play an honest game against opponents who are cheating
(through currency manipulation and subsidies), because... what? Because
that's the purer form of economics?



Madness. It isn't working, it's never worked, and it's not about to start working.


Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at July 21, 2016 07:35 PM (J+mig)

---
Because, as anyone who understands economics, those policies only hurt the countries who adopt them. I have no problem with Chinese taxpayers subsidizing my consumption.

Again, if you want to live in that sort of economy, just move to China and enjoy it.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:38 PM (89I+i)

993 "907 Ban please on aisle 888, ad hominem attacks. Thanks in advance."
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 21, 2016 06:48 PM (c1VpD)

Um, babe, you called the 3.3 million people who voted for Trump "assholes." I only called you a buffoon. And your response illustrates it wasn't an ad hominem, but a literal description.

PS- Ted will face that primary in 2018. Whether they get him or not, I don't know-- but I suspect GOPe money + Populist/Nationalist votes = Bye, bye Ted. And he's positively cooked for 2020. Bans won't stop the fact that people hate his fucking guts.

#AlwaysTrump #NeverCruz

Posted by: trickamsterdam at July 21, 2016 07:38 PM (kjCXP)

994 973 Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:24 PM (xmQSf)

I think the human tendency is to assume the period during which we're walking the earth is always more historically significant than it is.

We've had bad presidents before including, of course, TFG- a lazy, entitled ideologue. But Scrunt is on another level. She's very motivated and evil- and untouchable it seems.

This is different. If we wins, we are truly fucked.

Posted by: Cooldawg at July 21, 2016 07:38 PM (5FICd)

995 No I do not.

I oppose shouldering the obligations so EUropa can keep spending their money on mooslamic imigrants instead of their own defense.

Why do we have to defend them when they will not defend themselves?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 07:35 PM (WVsWD)
------------------
Estonia (and Poland, who I suspect Trump would also happily betray to buddy Putin) shoulder their share. I've told you this repeatedly and you ignore it.

So, you would betray Estonia?

Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 07:38 PM (mFkVC)

996 The Clintons have been living rent free in Republican head for a quarter od a century now and they always -let me repeat that- always cause Republicans to say and do stupid things. The idea that someone who refused to vote for an abomination is somehow morally responsible for the election of another abomination they did not vote for is a wonderful example of how the Clintons have turned otherwise smart people into complete blithering idiots.

I have no responsibility for who ever wins in November unless I did in fact, vote for him or her. Ace's attempt at political slut shaming is beneath him,

For most of my life I have heard from the hyper partisan that if our candidate does win, it will be the end of the world. Get some perspective, morons. Life goes on and no political battle is ever completely won or lost.

Posted by: NC Mountainl Girl at July 21, 2016 07:39 PM (/790U)

997 Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:34 PM (89I+i)

First of all you think we pay taxes to cover spending. We don't. We don't even sell debt to foreign buyers anymore. The biggest buyer of our debt is the FED.

Second, Those poor nations you listed can't do what we do because they don't aren't the global reserve currency. Which is why we can get away with being the biggest purchaser of our own debt, for now.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:39 PM (xmQSf)

998 We already have a de facto basic guaranteed income for that matter, it's just a stupidly inefficient one.
You're really clueless aren't you?


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:36 PM (89I+i)

I'm not the one advocating a guaranteed minimum income, but claiming I'm not a socialist.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:41 PM (xmQSf)

999 I don't live in a swing state so I'm free to vote however I choose.

I live in Ohio. For the first time in my life, my vote might actually count. Yet, it doesn't.

Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 07:42 PM (uOtyQ)

1000 Ha! Pretty funny watching the delegates try to rock out to AC/DC.....

Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 07:42 PM (8iiMU)

1001 Pretty funny watching the delegates try to rock out to AC/DC.....

Elderly white Republicans make Elaine Benes look like Debbie Allen

Posted by: V the K at July 21, 2016 07:44 PM (uOtyQ)

1002 Anyone who thinks the world is particularly unstable
today needs to read some history books. What makes you think the world
is particularly unstable today? Compared to what era?

-
In 1933, the Kansas City Massacre of four police officers in an escape attempt shocked the nation. Lately we have pointless murders and mass murders of cops every couple of weeks. I can't think of an historical analogy to Orlando or San Bernardino.

-

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 07:44 PM (Nwg0u)

1003 Fine.
Know what?
So what?
Now what?

Posted by: Mentor of Arisia at July 21, 2016 07:47 PM (pInIV)

1004 I can't think of an historical analogy to Orlando or San Bernardino.



Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 07:44 PM (Nwg0u)
I don't know for sure, but I would imagine the period just after the Civil War was incredibly shitty....

Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 07:47 PM (8iiMU)

1005

I'm not the one advocating a guaranteed minimum income, but claiming I'm not a socialist.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:41 PM (xmQSf)
----
You're advocating for socialist policies that would make everyone poorer and a guaranteed basic income impossible because society would be too poor for that.

----

First of all you think we pay taxes to cover
spending. We don't. We don't even sell debt to foreign buyers anymore.
The biggest buyer of our debt is the FED.

Second, Those poor
nations you listed can't do what we do because they don't aren't the
global reserve currency. Which is why we can get away with being the
biggest purchaser of our own debt, for now.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:39 PM (xmQSf)
----We pay enough taxes to cover a basic guaranteed income. And try to read something on how the Fed buys debt. You're not even aware that the Fed only buys debt from the primary buyers, it doesn't participate in the Treasure auctions. You know nothing about economics. Nothing. You're an illiterate buffoon who's fallen behind in life and looks to blame others for his own shortcomings.
Nonsense. Switzerland, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Singapore, etc, don't have the global reserve currency and they can do what we do just fine. And of course, the reason the dollar is the global reserve currency is because the American economy is open and sophisticated and not like Venezuela's.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:49 PM (89I+i)

1006 I don't classify myself as a "NeverTrumper"... I'm leaning slightly towards voting for him as opposed to a blank ballot, but it could easily go back the other way. No, I'm not going to vote for Clinton.

I also don't go around attacking him online, though I will criticize things if I feel something deserves it, and I'll make jokes if a straight line presents itself as too good to pass up.

That said, I categorically reject the idea that, if I do not vote for Trump, that I am in effect voting for Clinton.

Posted by: malclave at July 21, 2016 07:50 PM (2+XJK)

1007
In 1933, the Kansas City Massacre of four police
officers in an escape attempt shocked the nation. Lately we have
pointless murders and mass murders of cops every couple of weeks. I
can't think of an historical analogy to Orlando or San Bernardino.



-



Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 07:44 PM (Nwg0u)

-----
If you think the world is more stable today than in 1933 -of all years!- I'm not sure what to say. Again, read some history books.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:51 PM (89I+i)

1008 I don't know for sure, but I would imagine the period just after the Civil War was incredibly shitty.

-
There was John Brown in Bloody Kansas. And later Quantrill's raid on Lawrence Kansas. The perpetrators were more and the victims fewer but they didn't have assault guns.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 21, 2016 07:52 PM (Nwg0u)

1009 @1006, don't blank ballot. Some Democrat election judge will fill it in for you. Write in "Mickey Mouse" if nothing else.

Posted by: Sayyid at July 21, 2016 07:52 PM (dQrTa)

1010 "So, you would betray Estonia?"

WTF ???

Estonia is only in NATO because of a broken promise to Russia. You know that right?

Let me see if I can get this straight to you. There is no betrayal when the person or entity you are to defend will not defend themselves. If Estonia is going to go down let them go down swinging. Let an Estonian shed the blood to defend Estonia. Until that happens, American Blood? #notonedrop

Let EUropa defend EUropa for a change. Let them pay for the defense. I don't see it happening

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 07:53 PM (WVsWD)

1011 The free trade ideologues live in the that misty land of theory. They don't know how things work. Let's say China makes everything for us and we are the "ultimate" service economy. Who controls the power in that relationship?

One poster a few days ago simply stated that if China stopped selling us computer parts, we would be producing computer on our own in a year. Said poster didn't understand the sub-industries, suppliers, knowledge, organization, etc. that go into creating something as complex as a computer.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at July 21, 2016 07:53 PM (Ee2nz)

1012 I don't know for sure, but I would imagine the period just after the Civil War was incredibly shitty....




Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 07:47 PM (8iiMU)

----
Forget about the Civil War - cops were being killed like flies in the late 20s/early 30s!

The ignorance of these people is simply astounding. They know nothing. They don't care to learn. They don't even know what they don't know.
https://fee.org/media/10256/20150320_copsmillion1.png

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:53 PM (89I+i)

1013 Dude, (or dude-ette), I don't think (Nwg0u)was saying that today is more stable....

Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 07:53 PM (8iiMU)

1014 Test to see if I beat the Pixie block using this VPN.

Posted by: physics geek at July 21, 2016 07:53 PM (3A32d)

1015 The primary dealers are required to buy any bonds not sold at auction. That's the cost of being a primary. If the FED didn't purchase them then all the primaries would go bankrupt, and that would look bad, wouldn't it? The kind of bad that might threaten the dollar. It's interesting the details you leave out.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:54 PM (xmQSf)

1016 Hey! Apparently if I'm in California ::cough-cough:: I no longer get caught in Pixie's web of non-commenting despair.

Posted by: physics geek at July 21, 2016 07:54 PM (3A32d)

1017 Exactly. You're not swaying me with hashtags lie #FuckCruzInTheAss. "

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 21, 2016 06:57 PM (l7VAC)

***

1. While I think Trump was the most electable Republican, because of his ability to compete in the Rust Belt, I've always thought any Republican would be an underdog to Hillary, due to her advantage in the electoral college. I'm going to vote for and donate to Trump, but I do not expect to win

2. It's not my job to fucking persuade you. Take some fucking responsibility for your fucking life, "conservative"

3. If you decide who you're voting for based on what people on blogs say (not even the blog owner, but a commenter) you are a fool, who will get a fool's reward

4. You think only one can play the game? An alliance between the GOPe and Trumpers could be quite powerful, and it will be directed against Cruz via a primary in 2018-- and if he survives that, against his presidential aspirations in 2020 or 2024. Fucking deal with it. You don't get to steal Mike Pence's night, and ruin a convention with no consequences. He will experience some of them.

#AlwaysTrump #NeverCruz

Posted by: trickamsterdam at July 21, 2016 07:57 PM (kjCXP)

1018 https://fee.org/media/10256/20150320_copsmillion1.png


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:53 PM (89I+i)

Looks like your data stops at 2011, roughly. You want to try again?

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:57 PM (xmQSf)

1019 720 Gah. I still look at it this way: I have no idea what Trump will do (depends on the day what he might do.) With Hillary, you are assured of pretty much 4-8 years of darkness from both lawlessness, corruption, greed, court packing, single payer, and all of the societal forces the progressives have let out of the bottle.

Potential vs certainty. Pretty easy choice if you are hanging on the cliff's edge to grab onto those blades of grass.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 21, 2016 06:08 PM (3ZoRf)

Yeah, I get that. But I look at it a bit differently. I'm just spit-balling, but with Hillary there is a 100% chance that she will do things that are an 8 or 9 on the "bad" scale. With Trump, there is a 10% chance that he'll do a 10. That's why I have any hesitancy at all.

Posted by: Duke at July 21, 2016 07:57 PM (EQNFN)

1020 1015
The primary dealers are required to buy any bonds not sold at auction.
That's the cost of being a primary. If the FED didn't purchase them then
all the primaries would go bankrupt, and that would look bad, wouldn't
it? The kind of bad that might threaten the dollar. It's interesting the
details you leave out.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:54 PM (xmQSf)

-----
Again, you don't know basic facts about this stuff. Read a textbook. Read factual sources. What the heck are "primary dealers"? Nobody is required to buy bonds not sold at auction - all bonds are sold at auction. If the Fed didn't purchase them, it'd be crazy in the current context because we wouldn't have any monetary policy whatsoever - it'd be a radical tightening of monetary policy which would probably lead to hyper-deflation. These scenarios don't even make any sense. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:58 PM (89I+i)

1021 Estonia (and Poland, who I suspect Trump would also happily betray to buddy Putin) shoulder their share. I've told you this repeatedly and you ignore it.

So, you would betray Estonia?
Posted by: person at July 21, 2016 07:38 PM (mFkVC)

First, Russia isn't going to walk in on Poland which actually has a military and between WWI and WWII beat the Russkies.

Second, we had agreed with the Russians back in the 90's not to expand NATO eastward. I can see why they are ticked about that. Instead of sabre rattling, maybe it's time to negotiate.

Third, only a fool would go to war over a small, indefensible country that has been in the Russian sphere of influence for centuries. Would you be happy if Mexico became a Russian client state and thousands of Russian troops sat on the border?

Neo-con thinking is dead. It was stupid and is the reason for a lot of the messes we are in now.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at July 21, 2016 07:59 PM (Ee2nz)

1022

Looks like your data stops at 2011, roughly. You want to try again?


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:57 PM (xmQSf)
----

http://d.europe.newsweek.com/en/full/12888/09-14-cops-01.png?w=600

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:00 PM (89I+i)

1023 With Trump, there is a 10% chance that he'll do a 10. That's why I have any hesitancy at all.

Posted by: Duke at July 21, 2016 07:57 PM (EQNFN)

I'd take that 90% chance of a 9 or less!Heck, Huma might piss off Cankles one day and cause her to slip into the '10' (on a bad scale) category....
I'm just spit ballin' too...

Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 08:01 PM (8iiMU)

1024 Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at July 21, 2016 07:59 PM (Ee2nz)

Pretty much sums it up.

The agreement was in response to Russian objections to the re unification of Germany. You don't suppose they may have a reason for that?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at July 21, 2016 08:02 PM (WVsWD)

1025 What the heck are "primary dealers"? Nobody is
required to buy bonds not sold at auction - all bonds are sold at
auction. If the Fed didn't purchase them, it'd be crazy in the current
context because we wouldn't have any monetary policy whatsoever - it'd
be a radical tightening of monetary policy which would probably lead to
hyper-deflation. These scenarios don't even make any sense. You simply
have no idea what you're talking about.


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:58 PM (89I+i)

I think that's a fine place to leave this. It's been fun, but I have to run now.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 08:02 PM (xmQSf)

1026 1015

The primary dealers are required to buy any bonds not sold at auction.

That's the cost of being a primary. If the FED didn't purchase them then

all the primaries would go bankrupt, and that would look bad, wouldn't

it? The kind of bad that might threaten the dollar. It's interesting the

details you leave out.




Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 07:54 PM (xmQSf)

-----
Again,
you don't know basic facts about this stuff. Read a textbook. Read
factual sources. What the heck are "primary dealers"? Nobody is required
to buy bonds not sold at auction - all bonds are sold at auction. If
the Fed didn't purchase them, it'd be crazy in the current context
because we wouldn't have any monetary policy whatsoever - it'd be a
radical tightening of monetary policy which would probably lead to
hyper-deflation. These scenarios don't even make any sense. You simply
have no idea what you're talking about.


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:58 PM (89I+i)

---

And to clarify: the FED doesn't purchase them at auctions. And there are plenty of periods where the FED is SELLING more bonds than it buys. Pretty much every time interest rates go up. And, miraculous for someone as clueless and ignorant as you are, I imagine, primary buyers (not "dealers") don't go bankrupt.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:02 PM (89I+i)

1027 @1017 Cruz didn't ruin your night. Dummies booing him did. Letting him finish with grace and applause would have sent the message "we agree with everything you said, and our candidate is the guy you're describing."

Instead, the dummies decided to boo him and say "constitution? Liberty? Pfah. Screw that and screw you if you like this schmuck."

OK, fine, whatever. You play it how you want. But insulting me like that won't get my vote.

Posted by: Sayyid at July 21, 2016 08:03 PM (dQrTa)

1028 Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 07:58 PM (89I+i)

Dude (or dude-ette), why the personal denigration?
Please be civil.


Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 08:03 PM (8iiMU)

1029 As a way to celebrate my ability to comment from home again, I offer these gifts:

https://goo.gl/1SVMxf

https://goo.gl/jyNuYY

https://goo.gl/dsBWM8

https://goo.gl/SosDd7

Posted by: physics geek at July 21, 2016 08:04 PM (3A32d)

1030 Dude (or dude-ette), why the personal denigration?
Please be civil.




Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 08:03 PM (8iiMU)

I started it, but I'm a big boy and I can take it, but thanks.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 08:05 PM (xmQSf)

1031 Trump said he didn't need conservatives help.
Trump asked Bill's permission before Trump entered the race.
Trump's own staff say he doesn't want to win.
Within the last month, Trump hinted he didn't want to win
Trump COULD have used Cruz's words as an endorsement, but INSTEAD chose to blow up the convention.

Trump has NEVER been ahead in the polls against Hillary.
Not Once.

Trump is a Clinton operative, clearing the way for a Clinton presidency. Every vote for Trump has ALWAYS been a vote for Clinton.

So wail all you want. The election is rigged, and Trump helped to rig it. Hillary is our next President, and it is all due to the stupid Trumpkins.

Posted by: Steve Kellmeyer at July 21, 2016 08:05 PM (5vNOA)

1032 I imagine, primary buyers (not "dealers") don't go bankrupt.


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:02 PM (89I+i)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mfglobal-nyfed-idUSTRE7BD2B920111215
It's been swell, but I do have to run now.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 08:07 PM (xmQSf)

1033 "
Third, only a fool would go to war over a small, indefensible country that has been in the Russian sphere of influence for centuries. Would you be happy if Mexico became a Russian client state and thousands of Russian troops sat on the border?

Neo-con thinking is dead. It was stupid and is the reason for a lot of the messes we are in now."
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at July 21, 2016 07:59 PM (Ee2nz)

***

+1

Posted by: trickamsterdam at July 21, 2016 08:08 PM (kjCXP)

1034 34 Or I won't vote for either, because I find neither a morally palatable choice. You're free to dislike that decision.

Please consider voting against one.

Posted by: Diondre Cole at July 21, 2016 08:12 PM (ZedYY)

1035 I'm sorry, but the people that will be responsible for a Hillary presidency are Donald Trump and his primary voters. We should have had a real chance this year to win. Now it's shot to hell. Even if every single conservative who is nevertrump came together with the Trump supporters, we would still lose this election. The regular people, low information voters who get their news from mainstream TV shows and Facebook memes are not going to vote Trump. He is a divisive, unelectable candidate, and it doesn't matter if all conservatives were united under him. The end. All of this bickering will be for nothing in November. We are screwed either way.

Posted by: Kat at July 21, 2016 08:12 PM (OUwBH)

1036 This boils down to what a person thinks voting is. To the adults, it's a chance to keep the worst option out of power. To self worshiping children, it's a chance to wait in line to masturbate...to "express oneself". Vote your conscience? For fucksake! Vote to defend your country from a criminal. Or jack off. Just don't pretend there is another choice. You're simply lying to yourself if you try to make that retarded fucking case. It's an insult to the intelligence of any serious human being.

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 08:15 PM (mHKj2)

1037
Dude (or dude-ette), why the personal denigration?
Please be civil.




Posted by: Ian Galt at July 21, 2016 08:03 PM (8iiMU)

----
I'm just stating facts, but if you see it as personal denigration, then why are you asking me about it when I kept being civil long after personal insults were hurled at me and didn't dish out a fraction of what I took?

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:18 PM (89I+i)

1038
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mfglobal-nyfed-idUSTRE7BD2B920111215
It's been swell, but I do have to run now.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 08:07 PM (xmQSf)
----
Gosh, you're absolutely ignorant. Primary dealers don't buy debt, they just deal it. Do you see them going bankrupt when the Fed is actually a net seller of bonds?

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:20 PM (89I+i)

1039 Says the guy with the twitter account calling Trump dishonorable.

Posted by: NO at July 21, 2016 08:21 PM (36DP2)

1040
Third, only a fool would go to war over a small, indefensible
country that has been in the Russian sphere of influence for centuries.
Would you be happy if Mexico became a Russian client state and thousands
of Russian troops sat on the border?



Neo-con thinking is dead. It was stupid and is the reason for a lot of the messes we are in now."

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at July 21, 2016 07:59 PM (Ee2nz)

---

Like Poland in 1939?



Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:21 PM (89I+i)

1041
1036
This boils down to what a person thinks voting is. To the adults, it's a
chance to keep the worst option out of power. To self worshiping
children, it's a chance to wait in line to masturbate...to "express
oneself". Vote your conscience? For fucksake! Vote to defend your
country from a criminal. Or jack off. Just don't pretend there is
another choice. You're simply lying to yourself if you try to make that
retarded fucking case. It's an insult to the intelligence of any serious
human being.

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 08:15 PM (mHKj2)

-----
Are you claiming those alleged millions of Trump "new voters" who sat out in 2008 and 2012 are selfwhorshipping children?

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:24 PM (89I+i)

1042 Gosh, you're absolutely ignorant. Primary dealers
don't buy debt, they just deal it. Do you see them going bankrupt when
the Fed is actually a net seller of bonds?


Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 08:20 PM (89I+i)

If you didn't know what a primary dealer was until I posted you a link, then how would you know what they do or don't do. It really has been fun.

Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 08:25 PM (xmQSf)

1043 1039
Says the guy with the twitter account calling Trump dishonorable.

Posted by: NO at July 21, 2016 08:21 PM (36DP2)

Just curious. How has Trump shown you his honor?..What IS it he honors??

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 08:26 PM (aRUb8)

1044 A distressing thing about being a #neverTrumper is the huge membership by the establishment. I don't want Trump but being in the #nT fraternity puts me in that gray squishy world with William Kristol, Jeb Bush and their associates.

Trump, the devil we don't know.
Hillary, the demon we do

Posted by: gNewt...don't like Ryan..better call Paul at July 21, 2016 08:34 PM (N4pek)

1045 Trump is a lying POS, but Hillary is a F'ing lying evil POS. So, I'm voting for Trump or actually the Pence/Trump ticket. If Trump turned against conservatives as president it would be easier to impeach him then if Hillary was in office. After that Pence would become president which is better than whatever leftist is Hillary's VP.

Posted by: YatYas at July 21, 2016 08:34 PM (5v4w4)

1046 "Are you claiming those alleged millions of Trump "new voters" who sat out in 2008 and 2012 are selfwhorshipping children?"

Are you fucking high? Is Trump "alleged" to have won the most votes, or is this all a cartoon written by you?

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 08:40 PM (mHKj2)

1047 Doesn't it bother anyone that Trump is now just as much a creature of the establishment that you all have been railing against for years? Doesn't it bother anyone that while yes, if he wins, a few policies MIGHT be handled marginally better, but he will destroy the idea of conservatism and give a final triumph to identity politics? That ends most likely with the victory of the left since they do identity politics so well, and if it ends with a victory of the right, it will end up being a victory of the alt-right, and the idea of equality and rule of law will be dead until after the next dark ages. But since the smart money is that Hillary has already won, then by defending true constitutional conservatism and condemning Trump, I'm pursuing the best of the available shitty options.

Posted by: Tapster at July 21, 2016 08:44 PM (0zptn)

1048 Not a problem for me. Once it became clear that Trump would be the nominee, I decided to vote for Hillary.

I think she is better than Trump, for the simple reason that she is not insane. Corrupt, incompetent - yes. But not crazy.

Trump is crazy.

Posted by: sauropod at July 21, 2016 08:49 PM (Xhywj)

1049 Ace, don't you feel like a servile puppy licking once again the hand of the GOP establishment that is screwing you as it always does, because "at least we're not the Democrats". For god's sake, they let Mitch McConnell chair the convention! Paul Manafort worked for Gerry Ford and Bob Dole! These are the people we hate because there's not a dime's worth of difference between them and the Democrats. And Trump doesn't give a shit about conservative policies, and will probably start courting the liberal press as soon as he's elected. I for one am sick of it and I'm sorry if you think it's unrealistic, but I want a way out, and if there isn't one, then to hell with them all. I'll vote for what I think is right. If people thought like you always, the Whigs would still be a thing because "at least they're not the Democratic Republicans!"

Posted by: Tapster at July 21, 2016 08:59 PM (0zptn)

1050 1045
Trump is a lying POS, but Hillary is a F'ing lying evil POS. So, I'm
voting for Trump or actually the Pence/Trump ticket. If Trump turned
against conservatives as president it would be easier to impeach him
then if Hillary was in office. After that Pence would become president
which is better than whatever leftist is Hillary's VP.

Posted by: YatYas at July 21, 2016 08:34 PM (5v4w4)

Stupidity is worse than evil. In the words of Dietrich Bonhoffer, while he was awaiting execution:

"stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice, because evil left behind in its conscious perpetrators a sense of unease. Against true imbecility even reason was useless since you couldn't even appeal to your enemy's self interest because they were too dumb to see it. "Against stupidity we are defenseless." Against the stupid "neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything....reason falls on deaf ears, facts that contradict simply do not need to be believed, and when facts are irrefutable, they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this, the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied, and being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack."You know.....useful idiots, like the BLMers et al.


Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 09:00 PM (aRUb8)

1051

If you didn't know what a primary dealer was
until I posted you a link, then how would you know what they do or
don't do. It really has been fun.


Posted by: DFCtomm at July 21, 2016 08:25 PM (xmQSf)

---
I thought you were talking about primary buyers, because it was the only thing that would make some sense. You're the one who has no clue whatsoever on how monetary policy is made, how the sovereign debt market operates and what the FED, primary buyers and primary dealers do. Frankly, the simple fact you see a catastrophic economy and then your major concern is a few traders going bankrupt shows how absolutely insane and ignorant you are.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 09:04 PM (89I+i)

1052 1046
"Are you claiming those alleged millions of Trump "new voters" who sat out in 2008 and 2012 are selfwhorshipping children?"



Are you fucking high? Is Trump "alleged" to have won the most votes, or is this all a cartoon written by you?

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 08:40 PM (mHKj2)

------------
We'll see who wins the most votes in November. Until then, those new voters are alleged. If they do exist though, are they selfworshipping children or not?

I think it's a rhetorical question, I think you've admitted that everyone who didn't vote for McCain and Romney is a selfworshipping child.

Posted by: Abali at July 21, 2016 09:05 PM (89I+i)

1053 "I think you've admitted that everyone who didn't vote for McCain and Romney is a selfworshipping child. "

You're free to "think" anything you're willing to invent. Make up some more shit. It beats the hell out of facing reality.

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 09:09 PM (mHKj2)

1054 Trump is a hardcore liberal. Every four years, he tries to imitate a Republican. If Pelosi won the Republican nomination, would you argue that people should vote for her? Trump is WORSE than Pelosi. It's funny, people see Pelosi or Hillary and it's clear that voting for them is a bad idea. They see Trump, who is worse than both of them, and they argue people should vote for him because they haven't seen his political side. The rest of us have. He's a hardcore liberal. This is what Cruz was pointing out when he said Trump has New York values. This wasn't Cruz saying this. Cruz was pointing out stuff that Trump himself has said.

But oh noes, vote for Trump just cuz it's not Hillary. Errrmmm.... oh wait.

Posted by: MrX at July 21, 2016 09:11 PM (if9v9)

1055 trump is not a culture warrior. I doubt if elected we will hear anything for the next 4 years about bathrooms or abortions. Some think this is bad, As long as the dems don't gain ground there is nothing wrong with taking a break for 4 years from the culture war and instead rebuilding the foundations of America

Posted by: unseen at July 21, 2016 09:41 PM (6ez2Z)

1056 1050: So Trump is a Hitler??? Voting for Trump is not voting for the Nazis or KKK. Geez, I loath Obama and Hillary, but would not compare them to Hitler, Stalin or Mao.

Posted by: YatYas at July 21, 2016 09:44 PM (5v4w4)

1057 Can I get a reason to vote for Trump that doesn't revolve around, "Well, he's not Hillary." please?

Posted by: Daniel at July 21, 2016 09:45 PM (Ur3Wo)

1058 Posted by: YatYas at July 21, 2016 09:44 PM (5v4w4)

What are you going on about?? Can you be more specific?

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 09:46 PM (aRUb8)

1059 1057 Trump is a success regardless of what you think of him. there is reason to believe if you elect a successful person they will continue to have success. Successful people do not suddenly become non success by switching careers.

Posted by: unseen at July 21, 2016 09:54 PM (6ez2Z)

1060 There are no consequences for me to accept. I'm perfect.

Posted by: Obola at July 21, 2016 09:58 PM (gLZ2A)

1061 1059 You mean like Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame baseball career, his Triple Crown and three MVP seasons with the White Sox, etc? Like that?

Posted by: Mentor of Arisia at July 21, 2016 09:58 PM (pInIV)

1062 "Can I get a reason to vote for Trump that doesn't revolve around, "Well, he's not a Stalinist felon." please?"

Are you really so goddam shallow that you need more reasons? Do you hate your own country so much that you have to be fucking wooed into standing up against it's open enemies? Where the fuck do you people come from? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 10:01 PM (mHKj2)

1063 @52 yes Donald Trump, whose every business venture has gone bankrupt will put the military on the road to fiscal responsibility.

@1054 - exactly

Posted by: chad at July 21, 2016 10:11 PM (NAb7H)

1064 There has to be one party that adheres to the constitution. I can live with a President Clinton destroying the country.

Posted by: Bill C at July 21, 2016 10:12 PM (HqPBH)

1065 Are you really so goddam shallow that you need more
reasons? Do you hate your own country so much that you have to be
fucking wooed into standing up against it's open enemies? Where the fuck
do you people come from? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 10:01 PM (mHKj2)


It's you Trump supporters who push away those with a different viewpoint than Trump himself with his off the cuff remarks. You're even more arrogant that Trump, an amazing feat to be sure. We're just supposed to "get in line". Vote for Party over principle. I don't just give my vote away. It has to be earned. Maybe Trump will earn it. I never said I was "nevertrump". Just not yet. Maybe try a little decency, respect or being informative about what he stands for (if you even know yourself). Honestly, the cult of personality around Trump reminds me of Obama voters in '08. It's part of what frightens me about him. He has "followers" more than supporters.

Posted by: Daniel at July 21, 2016 10:22 PM (Ur3Wo)

1066 "There has to be one party that adheres to the constitution. I can live with a President Clinton destroying the country."

In other words, you're fine with your country being destroyed. Your spite is evil. You're evil.

You can live with? Fuck you in the ass, you treasonous bag of shit. I can live with Trump. He's imperfect. So the fuck what? He isn't an open enemy of this country. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 10:24 PM (mHKj2)

1067 Hey Ace, go fuck yourself!

Posted by: Tom at July 21, 2016 10:27 PM (rcCzh)

1068 Honestly, the cult of personality around Trump
reminds me of Obama voters in '08. It's part of what frightens me about
him. He has "followers" more than supporters.


Posted by: Daniel at July 21, 2016 10:22 PM (Ur3Wo)

I agree. If there's a difference, no one has pointed out.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 10:29 PM (aRUb8)

1069 1067
Hey Ace, go fuck yourself!

Posted by: Tom at July 21, 2016 10:27 PM (rcCzh)


My!........what a strong argument you make. Not at all childish.

Posted by: Mimzey at July 21, 2016 10:31 PM (aRUb8)

1070 DON'T blame Never Trumpers. Blame all the idiots in the primaries who voted for a guy with 70% disapproval nationwide.

Posted by: rexbatt at July 21, 2016 10:42 PM (woA40)

1071 " He has "followers" more than supporters."


He has republicans, shit for brains. He "has" them because they chose him over the other 16 republican candidates. I don't get what you asshooles are trying to lay down. Trump is illegitimate because he was the most popular candidate? Are you fuckers on peyote or something? I was a Cruz guy. My guy lost to a guy who wasn't my guy. The guy who wasn't my guy is running against someone who thinks the wrong side won the fucking Cold War. Trump is going to win. You twerps will still be losers.

Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 10:44 PM (mHKj2)

1072 Posted by: ccoffer at July 21, 2016 10:44 PM (mHKj2)


I never proclaimed to be nevertrump. He just has to earn it. Trumps "followers" as I put it are doing more to push me away from Trump than Trump himself however.

Posted by: Daniel at July 21, 2016 10:57 PM (Ur3Wo)

1073 You don't have to go all the way back to Hamilton and Andrew Jackson's wife and Cleveland's supposed illegitimate baby- I know some of you are just kids, but anyone remember 2000 when Bush's minions shafted McCain in SC? They questioned his service, said torture had made him unstable and insane. They attacked his wife, saying she was a drug addict. They attacked his family and said he had an illegitimate black baby. Of course GWB kept his lily white hands off it, but he reaped the rewards and tacitly supported it (his phonebanks push-polled lies about McCain to SC voters, he "regretted" it happened later but he took the SC win and went on to defeat McCain. And guess what, McCain not only endorsed Bush he campaigned for him. So fuck Cruz.

1. The lie that Trump is not conservative enough doesn't hold water because McCain and Romney were not conservatives, Romney not by a long shot.

2. The "personal attacks" thing is bullshit as well because EVERYBODY does it, and everybody before cruz and kasich sucked it up and got in line.

What this is about is personal pique by professional, sometimes lifelong politicians who got their ass handed to them by someone who has never held office and it galls them no end, and so they act like it's ok to give Trump special bad treatment. Well, you hate America and you hate conservativism if you won't help defeat hillary, so you are a non-entity and no one should give 2 shits what you say, nevertrumpers.

Posted by: docweasel at July 21, 2016 11:09 PM (NtCOi)

1074 Of course it may also be true that those who supported Trump & got him the GOP nomination are the ones who will be responsible if Hillary is elected, because they backed a fatally flawed candidate who was unable to beat her. You can take this blame game back to its origins, you know. By pushing a fatally flawed & inferior candidate on the party, you bear responsibility for getting Hillary elected. See how that works?

Posted by: Mrdoug1 at July 22, 2016 12:00 AM (1QTw/)

1075 You know. I'd really like to see, meet and try to have an intelligent discussion with these 'NeverTrump' people, or for that matter, anyone who is vehemently opposed to a Trump presidency. I would especially like to interview their offspring and hear about their dreams and asperations to help improve and support our current society. Maybe I'm biased, but I bet I'd be very disappointed. I was never 'enthused' about a Trump presidency, but after seeing his 'show' this week, and seeing his wonderful family, and 'testimonies' from his many employees, I WILL enthusiastically vote for Trump. I believe this is the 'last chance' for America as founded. A vote for Hillary, is clearly a vote for 'Death to America'.
'Winners' know when they need to be ruthless, and when they do not. I was 'disappointed' with the latter part of the primary process, but keep in mind, a Cruz PAC started attacking family. Trump just finished it, (and did it himself, personally. He didn't pay or have someone else do it for him). It isn't about Ted, Hiedie or Rafeal. It IS about America and the freedom and prosperity it offers for ALL Americans. The 'evil' and corruption infecting our Federal government are so entrenched and funded, it will take an amazing individual to even make a dent in correcting it. There is absolutely no chance of change with anyone else but Trump. I believe it is a 'chance' well worth taking. Wake up, everybody, you're livelyhoods are on the line.

Posted by: TheFoundersParty at July 22, 2016 12:50 AM (QAVtQ)

1076 Say whaaaa...

Let's see. By not supporting Drumpf, I'm voting for Clinton.

By extension, then, since I'll be voting for Gary Johnson, and not Clinton, I must also be voting for Drumpf.

So my two votes cancel out!

Geeze.

Posted by: ritwingr at July 22, 2016 12:58 AM (Xr+82)

1077 What's the difference btwn the 2? Before he started his campaign, his opinions lined up right with Hillary. Oh, he sang different tune once the campaign started, but admitted it was all crap & he'd do what he wants to once he's in office. So, what difference does it make? Besides, I'm not in a purple state so my vote is meaningless. Regardless, the Union is in for a shitty 4-8 yrs that she might not recover from. Don't matter how much you beg or whine, I won't suck either of their asses.

Posted by: Mark at July 22, 2016 01:38 AM (V9TAT)

1078 Let me extend the analogy, let's say in 2020 a bigger threat than Hillary can arise. Thus criticizing Trump for any bad decision made 2017-2020 has a modicum of chance of damaging the brand that I'm morally responsible for putting into office, and electing the bigger threat. So not only do I turn my mind off until the guy gets elected, but I have to turn my mind off, as long as the potential of helping out an emerging threat exists.

Under the presented scenario, I can't really criticize if the president I voted for appoints a progressive justice to the court, because I'm morally responsible, having voted for him. Despite that I can warn about the "worse threats" would put more liberal justices, I can't complain that the person that I'm morally responsible for putting in office does the same thing that made the other candidate the nightmare which made me morally responsible if I had not voted for that candidate and the "bigger threat" got into office. In addition, if I criticize him at this point it might hurt his chance at reelection where he can take on the yet bigger threat that may emerge.

All that does is make "moral responsibility" ubiquitous and an endless cascade--which I can accept, but if you don't also accept that it mutes the degree, then we might as well kill ourselves right now over the potential massive unseen damage that we could be culpable for in the future.

But this method of analysis also lends the similar amount of credence to a sort of post-hoc form of guilt that endorses reasoning similar to anti-American radicals. Had the Pilgrims not come to this country, Jackson couldn't have created the "Trail of Tears", the Native Americans would never have received smallpox blankets, we would have never imported slaves to pick cotten. So everything hinges on those little Eichmann settlers, enabling native genocide.

Unless you take electing a leader under a republican form of government to be some special species of moral responsibility sufficiently different from other actions. But morals weren't created for the republican politics, nor was responsibility. These are everyday concepts. Additionally, they are even not fully separable. It's hard to think of morality without responsibility, or responsibility without some order of morality which requires it. It's hard to think that "moral responsibility" is a precise analytical concept, but more likely an intuitive tribal understanding reinforced by a sort of oral repetition of emphasis.

Posted by: Axeman at July 22, 2016 03:13 AM (yF+FP)

1079 I support Gary Johnson enough to get him onto the Debate Stage.

Then, this should be perceived as leverage for The Donald to apologize for his deceitful campaign.

If he does, Cruz leads the Constitutionalists to support him, and he can win.

If he doesn't, we stand-firm and support someone who is both sane and honest...along with his running-mate.

Posted by: Robert B Sklaroff Md at July 22, 2016 03:59 AM (9bvKz)

1080 Actually, I do understand the concept to which your referring. I just cannot, in good conscience, support either Hillary or Trump. If we are to go down, I will at least go down with my principles.

Posted by: K at July 22, 2016 06:14 AM (UCM0d)

1081 Did any of these #nevertrump idiots ever think MSNBC was putting them on because they were so smart??? Idiots happily being used! Funny..lots of Romney people. Didnt that epic loss to the worst prez in history shamd you into shutting up? They are just p'd Trump did it without their idiot consulting class!

Posted by: William Keller at July 22, 2016 06:42 AM (sHta8)

1082 What an intellectually ridiculous post. So, If I believe that both candidates are equally flawed (just in different ways) and both unfit for office somehow I'm responsible for electing the one that wins by not voting for their opponent? Did you think this through before you vomited up this nonsense?

I have Hilary supporters telling me that if I don't vote for or support Hillary I'll be responsible for Trump becoming president. I have Trump supporters telling me that failure to vote for Trump makes me responsible for Hillary. So under the tortured logic of such claims, and this silly post, I'm somehow voting or responsible for the election of both candidates by not voting for either candidate. What utter nonsense!

I'm not voting for Hillary because she is the worst candidate I've seen in my lifetime. I'm not voting for Trump because he is tied with Hillary for worst candidate ever. I criticize both because it is my duty as a morally responsible American citizen to point out the error my fellow countrymen are making. I'm a #nevertrump and #neverhillary voter because both choices are equally repulsive an I refuse to help either of these pieces of trash assume power.

Under no form of logical or moral reasoning could I ever be culpable for either of these corrupt blowhards by refusing to support either one of them.

Posted by: Joel at July 22, 2016 07:25 AM (N5wlQ)

1083 ".....are stuck on "the party shouldn't have nominated him." I wholeheartedly agree. But that's not where we are now. "

Where we are now is that a plurality (not majority) of primary voters, either in a fit of anger, or caught up in some pro-Trump frenzy, nominated a man that a good part of the country does not trust, and thinks is a loud-mouthed kook. He is not a conservative. You all think he's going to enforce the boarders and send illegals home. I expect very little of that to actually happen.

They choose poorly, and now want to blame everyone else.

He may still win, Hillary is pretty bad.

And, his primary voters have done exactly what the establishment does - force your chosen guy in, and then demand everyone one else get in line. It didn't work for them, won't work for you. Its just so damn ironic.

Posted by: Lily at July 22, 2016 08:43 AM (Qm82t)

1084 Donald Trump Is the Most Dangerous Man in the World

Posted by: obat kutil kelamin herbal at July 22, 2016 10:20 AM (8puxu)

1085 Bravo!

And to you who are still whining about your loss, grow up and get over it.

Last to those who in states where it normally swings Democrat and don't think it matters if you vote third party. It does matter. At the end of the day the electoral vote carries the election but the popular vote tells the story. We must crush HRC. She must be lest as a shit stain on the pages of history. That is what matters. Her rejection by decent Americans.

I believe Trump is a transition candidate, his victory will destroy both parties. And then we can start over.

Posted by: Frank Tauss at July 22, 2016 10:34 AM (L1Iod)

1086 Your logic only works if you assume that voters would have voted for Trump, but are rejecting him. It falls apart, however, if they are rejecting both candidates equally because they view both candidates as equally bad.

If candidate A says, "Vote for me, I'll kill your dog!" and candidate B says, "Vote for me, I'll also kill your dog!" your dog's dying no matter what you do: whether you vote for A, B, or decide not to vote at all.

The outcome will be the same whether you vote for A, B, or do not vote at all. However, not voting, while still resulting in a dead dog, at least gives one the self-assurance that they never voted for someone with a dog killing platform, even though the dog was dying anyway.

Which matters in politics. That's why Cruz didn't endorse. He realizes that if Trump loses in November, there are going to be a WHOLE bunch of people in his own party who actively voted for killing the dog. The GOP hates him now, but that's going to mean something on November 9th when Trump loses and the GOP turns on him (because they will turn on him. Hard. Everyone loves seeing a braggart get their comeuppance, and Trump is the biggest braggart there is. If he loses, the GOP will rip him to shreds in a heart beat. Heck, if hes behind in October, they will probably start in early).

Posted by: Jcar at July 22, 2016 10:50 AM (YmaWo)

1087 LoL..you are the geniuses who will be here in a year whining about criminal hillary...good luck..LOL!

Posted by: William Keller at July 22, 2016 11:33 AM (sHta8)

1088 Obtusely ignoring delegate count which is how the choice is selected. Good job.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2016 06:45 PM (1CroS)
So delegate count is "majority party consensus" and actual voters are not?Only a select few matter, and Trump got a majority of them? Well ok.
Sorry, I thought voters were the party, not the select few. Now I know better.

Posted by: gekkobear at July 22, 2016 12:35 PM (0p8Lv)

1089 Disagree with this post. It is Trump's job to replace the voters he intentionally alienated with his behavior. He did that last night in his speech by inviting the #neverhillary Bernie Sanders people into his big (progressive/moderate/Blue dog Democrat tent he is creating out of the former Republican Party . It is time for Cruz to start a new Republican-Conservative party.

Posted by: Jenny at July 22, 2016 01:05 PM (U2Pgy)

1090 gekkobear: "So delegate count is 'majority party consensus' and actual voters are not?"

Yes, it is and finally you grasp it. That is the way the system is set up for whoever wins, Cruz included. Trump won far more than any other candidate in a 16-field race and, naturally, picked up more actual votes as the field winnowed. That was the mathematical reality of this primary. However, the object of the campaign was to win delegates and everyone knows it. Well, almost everyone apparently.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 22, 2016 01:31 PM (1CroS)

1091 Sorry, but I aint' buying it.
When Mrs. Clinton wins in Nov. it will entirely be the fault of Trump and his dopey supporters.
And they will have to answer for it.

Posted by: brokenman at July 22, 2016 02:22 PM (uHiz2)

1092 The Trumptards promised that if they didn't get their way that they would pull the lever for the Dems all the way down ballot. I feel like I must return the favor. If opposing Trump means a Hillary White House then so be it I'm With Her.

Posted by: jones at July 22, 2016 02:28 PM (5102Q)

1093 It's the fault of Trump supporters that we are stuck with a candidate who is completely unqualified for the Presidency. Don't blame that on #NeverTrump.

Posted by: Paul K. Ogden at July 22, 2016 02:49 PM (+V9RR)

1094 Funny how you call others "childish" and "immature" and yet you use the ultimate immature F-bomb in your article.

Posted by: LA at July 22, 2016 03:14 PM (pxNGL)

1095 Is it ever acceptable to refuse to choose between unacceptable alternatives? Did you see the movie "Sophie's Choice"?

Posted by: Rob Fink at July 22, 2016 04:27 PM (UIgbH)

1096 I agree with your post, Ace, but I think they are just saying what they need to in order to save face.

For example, can you imagine National Review coming our for Hillary? No way, they can't, it's a business impossibility. Better to leave it ambiguous.

I will deride Trump, and I realize this will help Clinton...and I might even vote for here. After all, the worst Clinton will do is give a few hundred million to her friends. Trump may well pull out of NATO, which we need to win any (far future but possible in my 60 remaining years) lifetime.

Posted by: Stone at July 22, 2016 05:00 PM (qRV1m)

1097 I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils, but I do acknowledge that it indirectly may lead to a Clinton presidency. I might be wrong and Trump would have been better. At the end of the day, I have to make a difficult decision between someone I believe is a safe haven for fascists and tyrants and someone I believe is herself tyrannical and has the ethical qualities of Richard Nixon.

If I believed Trump would be less odious then Clinton, given everything, my decision might be different.

At the end of the day though, I choose to vote as though my vote won't matter nationally but that the private consequences to myself and my conscience do matter.

Posted by: Scott at July 22, 2016 05:09 PM (+Hk/g)

1098 I have a question for you:

Why is Donald Trump making is harder for himself to win the election by trashing Cruz and thus alienating the Cruz supporters? Does he not realize that some Cruz supporters will not vote at all for president?

Posted by: Jim Williams at July 22, 2016 05:11 PM (ei9CY)

1099 Awesome how everything I wrote gt censored. Cowards.

Posted by: DrewM Sucks at July 22, 2016 05:14 PM (ywZNz)

1100 'Should this happen, I can't just say "But I didn't want trump to screw up so badly."'

That would be tantamount to Comey's saying that there was no criminal intent on Hillary's part in deliberately evading FOIA requirements and exposing national security secrets to enemies by setting up a secret server in her home. "But she didn't want her server to be hacked."

Posted by: jbspry at July 22, 2016 05:17 PM (QGbEp)

1101 What the OP (and others like him/her) do not appear to grasp:

MANY OF US PERCEIVE HELPING ELECT DON TRUMP TO LEAD THE U.S. IS LESS A PROBLEM OF HIS QUESTIONABLE POLICY POSITIONS... BUT FAR MORE SALIENT, DOING SO IS LITERALLY EQUIVALENT TO HELPING ELECT AN INCOMPETENT, INSECURE BUFFOON.

DON'T TAKE THAT TO BE AN ATTEMPT AT INSULT. IT IS NOT. IT IS AN HONEST APPRAISAL OF THE MAN BASED ON HIS WORDS AND HIS BEHAVIORS.

HISTORY SAYS NATIONS HAVE WEATHERED BAD POLICY, BUT NATIONS RISK COLLAPSE WHEN THEY INSTALL AND INCOMPETENT AT THE TOP.

BOTH MAJOR PARTIES HAVE PRODUCED INCOMPETENT CANDIDATES. DOESN'T MATTER WHICH IS WORSE, WHEN BOTH FAIL THE STANDARD OF COMPETENCY. BOTH ARE UNFIT FOR OFFICE.

AND WHEN THERE IS, IN FACT, A 3RD OPTION ON ALL 50 STATES BALLOTS, WE HAVE NO EXCUSE. GARY JOHNSON AND I ONLY AGREE ON ABOUT HALF OF HIS AGENDA, BUT THE MAN STANDS ALONE AS THE ONLY COMPETENT CANDIDATE.

KNOW THIS: BIG MEDIA WILL TRY... GOD KNOWS THEY WILL TRY... BUT THEY WILL NOT PERSUADE ME THAT MY VOTE IS WASTED WHEN, IN FACT, THAT 3RD OPTION IS AS AVAILABLE AS EITHER OF THE OTHER TWO.

Posted by: S. Greg Thompson, PhD at July 22, 2016 05:26 PM (qtJRX)

1102 If Trump wins, you are not only morally responsible for the authoritarian big government policies he enacts that would be largely indistinguishable from those of Hillary, but also for having the negative consequences of those policies blamed on the GOP and by extension (wrongly) on the ideology of limited government and, finally, you are responsible for the unprecedented electoral lurch to the left that would inevitable follow such a disastrous presidency.

I don't know when you went so stupid, Ace, but shame on you.

Posted by: Brian G. at July 22, 2016 05:50 PM (nYjYB)

1103 So how many of Clinton's positions does Trump have to adopt before you realize what he is? He's already backed off most of his stated positions. He's abandoned his own tax plan. He's already said there can be negotiation on the 1st and 2nd amendments. He's open to negotiations on the supreme court.

How abhorrent does this garbage candidate have to get before you wake up? Does he have to come out on stage in a Nazi uniform and sacrifice a child to Satan to finally lose your support? Or would you still support him even then?

The problem with the spineless who now support Trump because "he's not Hillary" is they've bought into the salivating monster ice queen Maoist hell spawn narrative that Hillary is supposed to be. The truth is she's just corrupt. That's it. She's an incompetent Dollarcrat and nothing more. She doesn't believe any of the shit she's selling anymore than Trump believes the shit he's selling.

Alexander Hamilton said it best when he wrote that if we have to have an enemy at the head of government, let it be one we can oppose rather than one whose foolishness and poor judgment our party will be responsible for.

4 years of Trump will almost guarantee we lose the Senate, the House and governorships. 4 years of Hillary will likely increase our numbers in those elected offices and allow us to put principled conservatives in.

"What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?" - Luke 9:25

Posted by: Infidel at July 22, 2016 06:17 PM (h2s6B)

1104 @50 "The thing about being against Trump now is that if Trump loses, do you think that the Trump supporters are just going to magically support Cruz or whoever in 2020?

No, they will not."

I was for Trump from Day 1. I won't vote Cruz in any primaries because of his complete lack of principles and integrity but I'd vote for him in the general because Dems are worse. I'm hoping for Pence in 2024 though. I think Cruz poisoned the well badly. Before that stunt on Wednesday I'd have voted for him in future primaries no problem.

Posted by: JustData at July 22, 2016 06:25 PM (l0+TE)

1105 Trump is playing you for suckers unless you simply like to be a victim of a con. He is almost the perfect anti-capitalist. I'd never do a business deal with him.

Posted by: NoLawyers at July 22, 2016 06:30 PM (1qmsL)

1106 Trump is unhinged, he is a fraud of a conservative, and he lies almost as much as Hillary. So I will note vote for either. I will write in Susannah Martinez for President. I was tempted to write in Marshawn Lynch, but he's not old enough.

But we still love you, Ace. When you exposed that kill-Bush comment spewed by Randi Rhodes back in 2004, you earned the nation's undying gratitude. That will never change.

Posted by: Damail at July 22, 2016 06:47 PM (bdDwL)

1107 I dont want to be morally responsible for someone who is categorically unfit to be commander-in-chief, thats the problem. Stalin or Hitler choose one.

Posted by: Nathaniel Swiggart at July 22, 2016 07:17 PM (n01FS)

1108 The orange one said that he didn't need conservatives to win. In this and only this, I'll take him at his word. There is a hymn that reads in one verse, "do what is right, let the consequence follow." Repudiating Trump and the Trump National Front, former GOP, is the right thing to do.

Posted by: James at July 22, 2016 08:37 PM (msvyE)

1109 I was going to hold my nose and vote for Trump, but after attacking Ted Cruz today, 07/22/16, when he could have been magnanimous, and let the issue die, instead he raised the "National Enquirer" issue again. Trump has convinced me he's an idiot.

Posted by: Alan McIntire at July 22, 2016 08:53 PM (/RXZU)

1110 I am not morally responsible for nominating either fo those idiots. Whichever if them wins, the moral responsibility for what happens next lies with those who supported them.

I can;t vote for either because, to me, voting for either is a moral wrong, in which I cannot in good conscience take part.

Barring something miraculous happening between now and November, I'm writing in "I Refuse" for President, then trying to help as many good Republican candidates get elected down the ballot as I can. If my party (or, less plausibly, the Democrats) want my vote in a future election, don't nominate a crook or a buffoon.

Sorry if voting my conscience offends you. I know many of you only like it when Ivanka does it.

Posted by: Nemo_from_Erehwon at July 22, 2016 09:21 PM (gaPRk)

1111 True Romance: Very under-rated

Posted by: chuck at July 22, 2016 09:53 PM (iVrm1)

1112 I won't vote for her but I'll be happy to assume some responsibility for her election. I will be voting for all Republicans with the exception of the chosen one- hoping that a Republican congress will mitigate some of the damage.

Posted by: Art Riordon at July 22, 2016 10:47 PM (1pD/p)

1113 Remember Ted the Annointed One (that's the Messaiah in Aramaic)? The Priest? The Prophet?

And now the Oath Breaker?

Until now I thought Cruz would be a great replacement for Scalia.

Now I think he should ask Lucifer if he need's a VP.

Posted by: Jan Vones at July 22, 2016 10:50 PM (xdhvl)

1114 It's not my fault the Republicans nominated a moral degenerate authoritarian Clinton donor with a disdain for Constitutional rights and a proclivity for mocking prisoners of war while never having the spine to ante up and serve himself.

Posted by: USMC1997 at July 23, 2016 01:24 AM (7DJLA)

1115 Ace,

I agree with some of what you are saying, though not all.

Something you are probably better suited to expand on is where I am at now.

I am not, nor can I ever get to the point I will vote for Trump.
BUT ... I can and will vote for the Republican Party.

Why? Because I trust the Republican party to hold Trump in line.
Specifically, I expect them to early on and probably regularly slap Trump down so hard that he is sitting in the Oval Office with his head bouncing around like a Trump Bobblehead.

I expect them to remind him, THEY get to fire HIM. Not the other way around. And remind him that the 21+ Republican Senators that will be elected this cycle? Can't be forced out of office until at least 2022, 2 years after his term ends. IF Those 22 Senaotrs decide he can finish his term. That the 48-ish Democrat Senators will be happy to fire him just because he farts without permission.

Okay -- No I don't actually trust my Party to do that. Just part of the way.

What I DO trust is the Democrat party to NOT have the courage to restrain Hillary. Hell, they will demand she does MORE by herself around and behind Congress. Further eroding our separation of powers.

Trump will be an overbearing idiot who burns so many bridges that they will be forced to put him on a short leash. And in doing that return the President's Domestic authority to the original concept of being a glorified CFO. They hire ( nominate ) the staff, and pay the bills.

So. No. I will not stay home. I will not vote 3rd party, I will not vote for Hillary.
I am NOT voting for Trump. I am voting for Ryan/McConnel. And trusting them to return the government to what it was meant to be. Driven by the legislature.

Posted by: Chrome at July 23, 2016 01:26 AM (44TaY)

1116 Valid points Ace. But I have a question. A lot of people rationalize their unhappy support for Trump on the basis that Hillary is worse than he is. In what way is Hillary worse than Trump and is there anything in which Trump is worse than Hillary?

In my mind, they are both bad in different ways. Thus far, I've been unable to decide which of the two is less bad. It will probably come down to voting day and what matters most to me at that moment in time.

Either way, this is truly the worst election of my lifetime.

Posted by: Can of Corn at July 23, 2016 01:39 AM (CQ7wK)

1117 @50 The thing about being against Trump now is that if Trump loses, do you think that the Trump supporters are just going to magically support Cruz or whoever in 2020?

No, they will not.
---
Cruz is the Trumper Emmanual Goldstein.

Posted by: Axeman at July 23, 2016 01:30 PM (yF+FP)

1118 Fuck you Kevin (Ace) you helped create the environment for the tangerine haired moron Manhattan Liberal Trump telling every one else who does not support your crypto white nationalism that they are not needed. I think you are having a breakdown and need to retire from blogging . This coming electoral disaster is on your head along with the rest of the neo - reactionary blogosphere , Fox News and talk radio.

Posted by: Hadrian at July 23, 2016 03:06 PM (fGf2Y)

1119 Hadrian: ^5. Very well said. Trump's landslide defeat will be on his hands and the hands of the feeble-minded who supported his candidacy and couldn't see what a fraud he was.

Posted by: USMC1997 at July 23, 2016 04:50 PM (7DJLA)

1120 8 men are in a room.

2 of those men are vying for a position to dick punch the other 7.

1 man is screaming at the top of his lungs, "why the f*ck are we voting for either of them to dick punch us? if you vote for me I won't dick punch anyone."

3 men vote for Guy A (Trump) to dick punch the rest of us.

4 men vote for Guy B (Billary) to dick punch the rest of us.

1 man votes for himself (Capt Nobody Gets Dickpunched)

Guy A's voters, "Thanks Capt Nobody Gets Dickpunched, now we're gonna get dick punch by guy B! Own your choice!!"

That's how stupid you sound. And trust me on this, that's a metric ass ton of dumb.

Posted by: JDNappers at July 25, 2016 01:46 PM (fNFqI)

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