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Holy Crap: Tough Essay About the "Smug Style of American Liberalism" Published by One of the Propagators of the Smug Style in American Liberalism, Vox

Explainer.

Suffice it to say, by the 1990s the better part of the working class wanted nothing to do with the word liberal. What remained of the American progressive elite was left to puzzle: What happened to our coalition?

Why did they abandon us?

What's the matter with Kansas?

The smug style arose to answer these questions. It provided an answer so simple and so emotionally satisfying that its success was perhaps inevitable: the theory that conservatism, and particularly the kind embraced by those out there in the country, was not a political ideology at all.

The trouble is that stupid hicks don't know what's good for them. They're getting conned by right-wingers and tent revivalists until they believe all the lies that've made them so wrong. They don't know any better. That's why they're voting against their own self-interest.

As anybody who has gone through a particularly nasty breakup knows, disdain cultivated in the aftermath of a divide quickly exceeds the original grievance. You lose somebody. You blame them. Soon, the blame is reason enough to keep them at a distance, the excuse to drive them even further away.

Finding comfort in the notion that their former allies were disdainful, hapless rubes, smug liberals created a culture animated by that contempt. The rubes noticed and replied in kind. The result is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Financial incentive compounded this tendency -- there is money, after all, in reassuring the bitter. Over 20 years, an industry arose to cater to the smug style. It began in humor, and culminated for a time in The Daily Show, a program that more than any other thing advanced the idea that liberal orthodoxy was a kind of educated savvy and that its opponents were, before anything else, stupid. The smug liberal found relief in ridiculing them.

The internet only made it worse. Today, a liberal who finds himself troubled by the currents of contemporary political life need look no further than his Facebook newsfeed to find the explanation:

[Links demonstrating that these are all genuine liberal media claims omitted]

Study finds Daily Show viewers more informed than viewers of Fox News.

They're beating CNN watchers too.

NPR listeners are best informed of all. He likes that.

You're better off watching nothing than watching Fox. He likes that even more.

The good news doesn't stop.

Liberals aren't just better informed. They're smarter.

They've got better grammar. They know more words....

Liberals are better able to process new information; they're less biased like that. They've got different brains. Better ones. Why? Evolution. They've got better brains, top-notch amygdalae, science finds.

The smug style created a feedback loop. If the trouble with conservatives was ignorance, then the liberal impulse was to correct it. When such corrections failed, disdain followed after it....

The studies, about Daily Show viewers and better-sized amygdalae, are knowing. It is the smug style's first premise: a politics defined by a command of the Correct Facts and signaled by an allegiance to the Correct Culture. A politics that is just the politics of smart people in command of Good Facts. A politics that insists it has no ideology at all, only facts. No moral convictions, only charts, the kind that keep them from "imposing their morals" like the bad guys do.

Knowing is the shibboleth into the smug style's culture, a cultural that celebrates hip commitments and valorizes hip taste, that loves nothing more than hate-reading anyone who doesn't get them. A culture that has come to replace politics itself.

The knowing know that police reform, that abortion rights, that labor unions are important, but go no further: What is important, after all, is to signal that you know these things. What is important is to launch links and mockery at those who don't. The Good Facts are enough: Anybody who fails to capitulate to them is part of the Problem, is terminally uncool. No persuasion, only retweets. Eye roll, crying emoji, forward to John Oliver for sick burns.

Well.

Really can't add anything to that.

It's worth the full read. The article turns to liberals' smug, hateful overreaction to Kim Davis as its not-of-our-culture Demon of the Week.


Posted by: Ace at 11:33 AM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Not skip

Posted by: Barky O at April 21, 2016 11:35 AM (kTF2Z)

2 They will probably retract this later on an issue a grovelling apology.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 11:35 AM (TOssO)

3 Off dog eater sock.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 21, 2016 11:35 AM (kTF2Z)

4 Now to read the post.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 21, 2016 11:36 AM (kTF2Z)

5

/wave

morning ace

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 21, 2016 11:37 AM (qCMvj)

6 It's worth the full read.>>>

4/20 was yesterday.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 21, 2016 11:37 AM (tf9Ne)

7 There-in lies the problem... Being "Conservative" isn't hip, cool and happening....

Posted by: donna at April 21, 2016 11:37 AM (O2RFr)

8 The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government handouts is so fucking shocking.

Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 11:38 AM (g5qNI)

9

They call out The Daily Show.
What?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 21, 2016 11:39 AM (qCMvj)

10 The knowing know that police reform, that abortion rights, that labor unions are important, but go no further: What is important, after all, is to signal that you know these things. What is important is to launch links and mockery at those who don't. The Good Facts are enough: Anybody who fails to capitulate to them is part of the Problem, is terminally uncool. No persuasion, only retweets. Eye roll, crying emoji, forward to John Oliver for sick burns.



Let. It. Burn.
Bounce. The. Rubble.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 11:39 AM (wwx67)

11 Intellectual vomit smells like regular vomit.



Lunch?!?

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at April 21, 2016 11:40 AM (3+TyS)

12 Liberals are better able to process new information; they're less biased
like that. They've got different brains. Better ones. Why? Evolution.
They've got better brains, top-notch amygdalae, science finds.


Laughable. Well, except for Trump voters. (joke)

Posted by: pep at April 21, 2016 11:40 AM (3e8zv)

13 It's worth the full read.>>>

4/20 was yesterday.




Surprise 4/21 Drug Testing Day!

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 11:40 AM (wwx67)

14 Liberals , the ultimate trend suckers .
It's hip to be square .

Posted by: awkward davies at April 21, 2016 11:41 AM (7Awbj)

15 You made me look up amygdala....a ganglion of the limbic system adjoining the temporal lobe of the brain and involved in emotions of fear and aggression.

Posted by: Cheri at April 21, 2016 11:41 AM (oiNtH)

16 I was smugged at a Trump Rally

Posted by: Michelle Fields at April 21, 2016 11:41 AM (10hEu)

17 8 The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government handouts is so fucking shocking.
Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 11:38 AM (g5qNI)


The thesis of Thoma Frank's "what's the matter with Kansas?" book is the author being completely mystified why working people don't vote for Democrats all the time since the Republicans only care about rich people.

Yes, it really is that stupid.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 11:41 AM (TOssO)

18 You made me look up amygdala




Amy G Dala? Helluva writer!

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 11:41 AM (wwx67)

19 Yes, liberals do think the Daily Show has better news than Fox. But stupid is as stupid does.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 21, 2016 11:42 AM (vvmPQ)

20 Interesting. But smug should not be confused with intellectually derived. Today's liberal are pathos driven and inspired. They largely proceed unabated by things like facts, predictable results or actual results. They are in essence propagandists and victims of their own propaganda. They are also autocrats always striving to keep the fiction going by coercion, usurpation and dictatorial action. They've pretty much corrupted everything they touch.

They would be nonexistent by the way, if we were not so busy being distracted by our own fratricide...

Posted by: Marcus T at April 21, 2016 11:43 AM (O0lVq)

21 Surprise 4/21 Drug Testing Day!>>>

Sounds like entrapment to me just like this.

https://twitter.com/wyomingpd/status/722816940436230145

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 21, 2016 11:43 AM (tf9Ne)

22 I wake up to a world where HotAir is nothing but warmed-over Townhall reposts or boring #nevertrump crap, while VOX has the very best article on toxic "progressives" written in years.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at April 21, 2016 11:43 AM (S2VsH)

23 Isn't the main problem with this that it is on Vox? Sort of a credibility gap.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 21, 2016 11:43 AM (Qvgg/)

24
I would like to do my snarky dance and chant "Welcome to my Hell" and "I told you so" and whatnot, but I must in all conscience welcome this development.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 11:43 AM (pC96u)

25 Evidence does not bear out liberal assumptions that they are smarter: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/22/science-say-gop-voters-better-informed-open-minded/

Posted by: redbanzai at April 21, 2016 11:43 AM (3JA/M)

26 >>>19 Yes, liberals do think the Daily Show has better news than Fox. But stupid is as stupid does.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 21, 2016 11:42 AM (vvmPQ)

____

Well, at least the Daily show never let me compare my arm bruises to my father's death on national TV.

Posted by: Michelle Fields at April 21, 2016 11:44 AM (10hEu)

27 The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always
pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government
handouts is so fucking shocking. Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 11:38 AM (g5qNI)
=====

A rather sour comment from me as a flyover country denizen: but New York values!

New York is where I'd rather be, I get allergic smelling hay, I just adore a penthouse view, Darling, I love you, but give me Park Avenue.

I must say that the NRO crowd has been pushing those same old buttons really hard as well.

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 21, 2016 11:44 AM (MIKMs)

28 But smug should not be confused with intellectually derived.

Facts? A worldview based on reality and knowledge? Where's the fun in that?

Posted by: pep at April 21, 2016 11:44 AM (3e8zv)

29 Heh I'm in the middle of it now. I also thought wtf this is on Vox?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (4ErVI)

30 He hints at but can't seem to latch onto the realization that science has been coopted by the left as a way to delegitimize it's opponents.
It's disgusting.

Why I was at the gym, CNN had on a Bernie and Hillary Millennial supporting chicks. Dear god they couldn't even string together a coherent sentence. The Hillbot was just reciting talking points (and when the anchor put her in an awkward position by noting the talking points make Bernie supporters out to be stupid, which they are, but Hillbot can't say that, she literally got stuck in a feedback loop until she just ended.)

The Bernie chick was even worse.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (tM4uk)

31

The Knowy, Knowingly Know-it-All's missed something, didn't they?

Cause and Effect.
Karma.

Know nothings.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (qCMvj)

32 I'll rest on the fact that liberals can't change a car tire or clean a gun.

And they're asthmatic, to boot.

Posted by: Biff Baxter at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (2PU5o)

33 The author had a temporary attack of insight.
He should lie down until it passes.

Posted by: @votermom at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (nbrY/)

34 These pretzels are making me thirsty!

Posted by: George Cantstandya at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (yn6XZ)

35 I remember reading about these "studies." Dint remember all the details, but the questions were on political policies like abortion and global warming. If you had the PC answer you were well informed. Pure BS as I recall.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (kTF2Z)

36 The trouble is that stupid hicks don't know what's good for them. They're getting conned by right-wingers and tent revivalists until they believe all the lies that've made them so wrong. They don't know any better. That's why they're voting against their own self-interest.

Wow. A better summation of Thomas Franks' stupid book you will never read.

And this is Vox??? How in the world did this one get past them?

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 11:45 AM (TOssO)

37 The reason Liberals are so smug is that there are laws against slapping them around for being smug.

Posted by: garrett at April 21, 2016 11:46 AM (4bzP6)

38 >>>8 The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government handouts is so fucking shocking.
Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 11:38 AM (g5qNI)

_______

Hand-outs? ITS A TRAP!!!

Posted by: Admiral Michelle "Ackbar" Fields at April 21, 2016 11:46 AM (10hEu)

39 WWE legend Chyna -- real name Joanie Laurer -- has died ... and officials are investigating as a possible overdose, TMZ Sports has learned.

Posted by: Chief Jay Strongbow at April 21, 2016 11:46 AM (e8kgV)

40 "It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so."

Josh Billings, 19th century humorist

Ronald Reagan used the quote: "Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

And Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said this:


It is therefore that, the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment of others. Most men, indeed, as well as most sects in religion, think themselves in possession of all truth, and that wherever others differ from them, it is so far error.
On the whole, sir, I can not help expressing a wish that every member of the convention who may still have objections to it, would, with me, on this occasion, doubt a little of his own infallibility, and, to make manifest our unanimity, put his name to this instrument.


What's old is new again.

*mostly lifted from wiki*

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 21, 2016 11:46 AM (gyKtp)

41 Buzzsaw - too funny!

I had to laugh that Denver celebrated 4/20 with a huge smoke party in one of the city's parks - otherwise known as Wednesday.

I need to start thinking big - next 4/20 it would be worth me driving to the front range and setting up a concession stand with every kind of munchies known to man. Probably sell out in an hour.

Posted by: Cheri at April 21, 2016 11:47 AM (oiNtH)

42 I'm always amazed as our country sinks deeper into a morass the liberals, who are running the presidency and creating the destruction, simply point at the "rich" or "Republicans" and state "it's their fault.

And enough foolish voters believe them, to keep electing the same destructive, divisive people all over again.

How you break that cycle of stupid is beyond me.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 21, 2016 11:47 AM (O0lVq)

43 . Over 20 years, an industry arose to cater to the smug style. It began in humor, and culminated for a time in The Daily Show,

----

so i'm like, a failure?

Posted by: Trevor Noah at April 21, 2016 11:48 AM (PNcou)

44

Late afternoon headline: Vox Was Hacked By Conservative Hate Group!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 21, 2016 11:48 AM (qCMvj)

45 Fire, Stones, Salt... some disassembly required

Posted by: phreshone at April 21, 2016 11:48 AM (12kBq)

46
Isn't the main problem with this that it is on Vox? Sort of a credibility gap.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 21, 2016 11:43 AM (Qvgg/)
--------------------

It's a problem for those of us who have (with reason) come to reflexively reject anything from the leftysphere. As badly as we've been abused by the Smug Ones, I think we'll have to welcome the come-latelys to our side of the argument.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 11:49 AM (pC96u)

47 With Libs it's not that Conservative Rubes can't have beliefs, they just have to have the "right" beliefs otherwise shut em' down...

Posted by: donna at April 21, 2016 11:49 AM (O2RFr)

48 The Heart of Redness by Iowahawk .
The knuckledraggin' wrench turnin' Gaia destroying Jonathan Swift of the conservative movement .

Posted by: awkward davies at April 21, 2016 11:50 AM (7Awbj)

49 That's why they're voting against their own self-interest.

-----------

The problem with this is it assumes that self-interest can only be measured through the government, the thinking is that it is my self-interest for the government to hand me something, or protect my industry, or confer some other benefit.

To many of us, our best interest is for the government to get out of our lives as much as possible.

From an economic standpoint, this may cause short-term pain, but long-term benefits.

So it really is not voting against your self-interest.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 11:50 AM (gmeXX)

50 The Hillbot was just reciting talking points (and when the anchor put her in an awkward position by noting the talking points make Bernie supporters out to be stupid, which they are, but Hillbot can't say that, she literally got stuck in a feedback loop until she just ended.)



Please tell me "ended" means deceased.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 11:50 AM (wwx67)

51 Ah, there's a 'Shibboleth' in there.

That's Ace's favorite word, next to 'Macguffin'.

Posted by: garrett at April 21, 2016 11:50 AM (4bzP6)

52 So Vox is scurrying for the baseboards. Verrry interesting.

Posted by: Prescission for the win. at April 21, 2016 11:50 AM (5VvBx)

53
The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government handouts is so fucking shocking.
Posted by: Lauren


Animals is the zoo should love their keeper.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 21, 2016 11:50 AM (k4M/B)

54 8 The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government handouts is so fucking shocking.

---

pure Marxist economics uber alles

Posted by: Trevor Noah at April 21, 2016 11:50 AM (PNcou)

55 50 The Hillbot was just reciting talking points (and when the anchor put her in an awkward position by noting the talking points make Bernie supporters out to be stupid, which they are, but Hillbot can't say that, she literally got stuck in a feedback loop until she just ended.)

Did Her head blow up like the Fembots?

Posted by: donna at April 21, 2016 11:51 AM (O2RFr)

56 This piece is just click bait for dumb hicks.

Posted by: Voxsplainer at April 21, 2016 11:51 AM (yn6XZ)

57 It's worth the full read, no matter the source.

Posted by: brak at April 21, 2016 11:51 AM (MJuTN)

58 In 2016, the smug style has found expression in media and in policy, in
the attitudes of liberals both visible and private, providing a
foundational set of assumptions above which a great number of liberals
comport their understanding of the world.


I wish these blindingly brilliant people wouldn't try to use words they don't understand. How does one comport one's understanding, especially above assumptions?

Posted by: pep at April 21, 2016 11:51 AM (3e8zv)

59
How you break that cycle of stupid is beyond me.
Posted by: Marcus T at April 21, 2016 11:47 AM (O0lVq)
-----------------------

I honestly think it could be done with proper communication techniques. I've been in the education/communication biz for many years, and the amateurish failures I see being perped by the GOP on an hourly level make me want to scream. It's so fixable, and they keep hiring the berserkers to fix it....

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 11:52 AM (pC96u)

60
The difference between "smog" and "smug" is avowal.

Posted by: mrp at April 21, 2016 11:52 AM (JBggj)

61

That's a long piece.

This gem was hidden towards the end

Make no mistake: I am not suggesting that liberals adopt a fuzzy, gentler version of their politics. I am not suggesting they compromise their issues for the sake of playing nice. What I am suggesting is that they consider how the issues they actually fight for have drifted away from their egalitarian intentions.

I am suggesting that they notice how hating and ridiculing the people they say they want to help has led them to stop helping those people, too.

I am suggesting that in the case of a Kim Davis, liberalism resist the impulse to go beyond the necessary legal fight and explicitly delight in punishing an old foe.

I am suggesting that they instead wonder what it might be like to have little left but one's values; to wake up one day to find your whole moral order destroyed; to look around and see the representatives of a new order call you a stupid, hypocritical hick without bothering, even, to wonder how your corner of your poor state found itself so alienated from them in the first place. To work with people who do not share their values or their tastes, who do not live where they live or like what they like or know their Good Facts or their jokes.


there is no remorse

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 21, 2016 11:52 AM (qCMvj)

62
#%$^%^%&^%%)%$##@@@!#%^*++*+*+*++^!

Posted by: Andrew Jackson's Parrot at April 21, 2016 11:52 AM (KId5h)

63
That's Ace's favorite word, next to 'Macguffin'.
Posted by: garrett


Mmmmmmm, Egg Macguffin.

Posted by: Homer Simpson at April 21, 2016 11:53 AM (k4M/B)

64 "The wages of smug is Trump."

Okay, fine. I agree with that. But now, are you going to change?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 21, 2016 11:53 AM (2lndx)

65 It has been so since, hell, forever.

I don't have it to hand but there was a political cartoon I saw in 2004 that perfectly summed up what was going on. It was drawn in the early 1900s.

Here's the thing. The Right does it too. Hell, I do it too. Everyone does it. It's human freaking nature to believe that your views are Holy and Divine and Pure and Correct and everyone else are paste eating couch fuckers.

The process, and it is a never ending process, of becoming a thinking person is stepping back and saying to yourself "Self. Self, you don't know everything. You don't know anything. You don't know what you think you know and the stuff you think you know is probably wrong anyway so maybe you should listen to what that other person is saying." Then you do that and you push through the id attempting to protect core identity and rejecting the Bad Thoughts and you consider, you truly stop and consider, the other person's positions and bases of that position. Then you can reject the position in whole based on your view of the idea, not your quick knee jerk oh I am a better person than them so fuck what they think.

Again, I'm as guilty if not more so than anyone for using pattern shortcuts to assume that if Person A believes that civil asset forfeiture is awesome then fuck them running with everything else they believe. But that's still not right.

It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil.

Presume Yankees fans exception here.

Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 11:53 AM (mf5HN)

66 56 This piece is just click bait for dumb hicks.

Posted by: Voxsplainer at April 21, 2016 11:51 AM (yn6XZ)

It could be a serious you guys we gotta be careful article too.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 21, 2016 11:53 AM (4ErVI)

67

the author of the piece

Emmett Rensin is deputy First Person editor at Vox.

heh

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 21, 2016 11:53 AM (qCMvj)

68
I wish these blindingly brilliant people wouldn't try to use words they don't understand. How does one comport one's understanding, especially above assumptions?
Posted by: pep at April 21, 2016 11:51 AM (3e8zv)
------------------------

Congratulations to you for reading and parsing. It's something I have no stomach for these days. And yes, sigh, even their brief moment of intellectual clarity must be comported above their English usage.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 11:54 AM (pC96u)

69 or their jokes

------------

It appears that the only acceptable punchline today is a conservative

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 11:54 AM (gmeXX)

70 "
So it really is not voting against your self-interest."

Exactly.

But one of the best moments on tv ever was when penn jillete was on Larry King with Seth McFarland.

McFarland was self felating over how he would pay more in taxes to help the little people and blah blah blah. Then he pulled out the "what's the matter with Kansas card. "

Penn jumped on him like a starved dog on a hamburger.

"Wait, Seth. You just said you'd pay more in taxes to help people out right? Because you value that more than money? I'm just trying to understand why it's noble when you act against your self interest, but stupid when other people do it. "

Ah, it was a thing of beauty.

Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 11:55 AM (g5qNI)

71 I've done everything AlextheChick said and still came to the conclusion they're still paste eating couch fuckers.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 21, 2016 11:56 AM (4ErVI)

72 *smashes F5*

THIS TIME THE REST OF HEART OF REDNESS WILL BE THERE.

IT WILL.

IT WILL.

IT MUST.

*smashes F5*

(If you don't know what that is, here, I have pity on you - http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2010/02/heart-of-redness.html)

Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 11:56 AM (mf5HN)

73
The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government handouts is so fucking shocking.


It's the same mindset as gun control. Leftists know they couldn't trust themselves with a gun, so obviously, you can't be trusted with a gun. A leftist can't see themselves doing an honest day's work - that would mean physical labor - and would much rather be a Berniebot, spending all day lounging in a trendy café or hipster brewpub spouting off about the injustice of the world. They live for a government handout, so why wouldn't you, except that you're a dumbass who thinks that the big, bad gummint is your enemy?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 21, 2016 11:56 AM (X6fMO)

74 The problem is, the wages of smug is also Sanders. There are people who have reacted against the smug--Trump supporters--and people who have reacted to become one with the smug. They support Sanders.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 21, 2016 11:56 AM (2lndx)

75 I didn't read the whole article since Ace Vox-splained it quite well, but, my, what is going on here? What were the comments there like?

Over the years I have moved more and more to the idea that the crowd has wisdom, not folly, driving it. The rednecks may not know the big words but they know, intuitively, right and wrong, and what's up and what's down. It has galled me that the crowd chose Obama twice, but, in retrospect, they probably made the right choice there too.

Why would I say that? It's complicated but at least on one level, progressivism needed to be fully mandated, or at least as fully as possible. This article tells me that has happened.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at April 21, 2016 11:56 AM (eXTZt)

76 without bothering, even, to wonder how your corner of your poor state found itself so alienated from them in the first place.

_____

This is part of the liberal stoopid. They do everything the can to destroy rural economies via enviro-nazism. Then they look at the people whose lives have been destroyed and say "look at these losers, they're so poor, how dare they question our awesomeness?"

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 21, 2016 11:57 AM (0LHZx)

77 I thought "trib-alism" was Ace's favourite word?

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 11:57 AM (jVvcc)

78 Forget it Ace its Smugtown

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at April 21, 2016 11:57 AM (dU/fR)

79 The "what's the matter with Kansas" thing has always
pissed me right off. As though choosing freedom over government
handouts is so fucking shocking.

Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 11:38 AM (g5qNI)


Back before Obamacare was passed, TEA Party groups descended on D.C. to rally against it and harangue our congresscritters. I buttonholed Mark Warner in a hall way to talk to him about my extreme displeasure. He asked me if at my income, I would get a subsidy (soooooo not the point) and then dismissed me because, according to him, if it wouldn't cost me more on paper (a total lie in and of itself) then I had no right to object to the government making me into an object of charity.

They would love to turn us all into beggers (cause they're easier to please).

Posted by: redbanzai at April 21, 2016 11:57 AM (3JA/M)

80 Shorter one word version

Projection

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at April 21, 2016 11:58 AM (zFzxj)

81 I've done everything AlextheChick said and still came to the conclusion they're still paste eating couch fuckers.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 21, 2016 11:56 AM (4ErVI)



Yes, but then that's a reasoned decision arrived at after due contemplation so you get to be smug as hell about actually and truly being better.

So, you know, there's also that. Why, I have considered your positions and premises and, after rigorous analysis, I must inquire how many times you were dropped on your head as a child because dude. Dude. Seriously, dude.

Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 11:58 AM (mf5HN)

82 Ironically, as it goes on he gets more and more smug himself.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at April 21, 2016 11:58 AM (tM4uk)

83
The problem with this is it assumes that self-interest can only be measured through the government, the thinking is that it is my self-interest for the government to hand me something, or protect my industry, or confer some other benefit.

------------------------------------

Exactly. I don't consider it in my interest to get a welfare check of $200 rather than a paycheck of $150.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 11:58 AM (pC96u)

84 But if liberal good intentions are to make a play for a better future,
they cannot merely recognize the ways they've come to hate their former
allies.



This is the next to last sentence of a pretty good essay. Mr. Rensin stupidly assumes that liberals have good intentions and that those good intentions will make the future better. Someone ought to tell Mr. Rensin about the road to Hell and the materials used to pave it.

Posted by: huerfano at April 21, 2016 11:58 AM (NSb9d)

85 77 I thought "trib-alism" was Ace's favourite word?
Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 11:57 AM (jVvcc)


No, actually, ace's favourite word is "tribbing".

I suggest you not look it up.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 11:59 AM (TOssO)

86 I wish these blindingly brilliant people wouldn't try to use words they don't understand.


Good grammar is racist #WhitePrivilege. What are you? From Kansas?!

Posted by: Professor Dumbshit at April 21, 2016 11:59 AM (yn6XZ)

87 Why don't these smug liberals break up with us. It's not you, it's me. I understand.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at April 21, 2016 11:59 AM (zFzxj)

88 I've always said that to a Liberal, there are no such things as "opinions." There are facts and there are untruths, and to the Liberal, if you do not acknowledge their "facts" then you are, at best, stupid and at worst, evil.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at April 21, 2016 11:59 AM (QzJBQ)

89 "82 Ironically, as it goes on he gets more and more smug himself."

Libs gonna lib.

Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 12:00 PM (g5qNI)

90 They love nothing more than talking about themselves.

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at April 21, 2016 12:00 PM (dU/fR)

91 Why don't we all have some toast? Everyone loves toast, right?
http://tinyurl.com/gw4gw2n

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 12:01 PM (jVvcc)

92
What were the comments there like?
-----------------------

I believe there are no comments at Vox. After all, they are "explaining" things.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:01 PM (pC96u)

93 Of course us lefties are right because we spout talking points in a faux-British accent and...

it's the current year, right now!

Posted by: John Oliver, git at April 21, 2016 12:01 PM (LlaxB)

94 60
The difference between "smog" and "smug" is avowal.
Posted by: mrp at April 21, 2016 11:52 AM (JBggj)

---

all your treasure are belong to us

Posted by: Smaug at April 21, 2016 12:01 PM (PNcou)

95 Good grammar is racist #WhitePrivilege. What are you? From Kansas?!
Posted by: Professor Dumbshit at April 21, 2016 11:59 AM (yn6XZ)

___

As is punctuality.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (0LHZx)

96 The "What's the Matter with Kansas" guy, Thomas Franks, has written a new book about how the Dems have failed working class whites.

Meanwhile, NRO's Kevin Williamson recently wrote a column in which he blamed working whites for their failure (specifically, this was more "what's the matter with angry Trump voters?").

Is every day Opposite Day, or what?

Posted by: Lizzy at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (NOIQH)

97 Remember when Obama lifted his magnificent hand to his ear and said concerning those who hadn't voted in 2014, "I hear you too"? His point was, "I was not on the ballot and you non-voters have spoken how much you love me." It was a message to Democrats to love him more (which, of course, is impossible, but in Obama's mind, required).

Those non-voters are indeed part of the wisdom of the crowds. The whole damn set of Americans, voting, not voting, protesting, not protesting, Silent Majority, vocal minority, Meh-sayers to social issues, Puritans to social issues ... all of them get added together to produce a president. And our president is the most important response to the crowd's wisdom in the world. That's why the whole world watches our elections even more than their own.

So these SJW's, the smug-ites, they are being balanced by the wisdom of the crowds. It isn't contrition. It isn't honest self-reflection. It's the mass of the crowds, teeming at Trump rallies, posting tranny pictures on Facebook a la Curt Shilling, that bring about these moments of seeming self-reflection.

Crowds. Gotta love 'em.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (eXTZt)

98 Thanks for explaining that to all those Flyover Country types, Oregon Muse.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (jVvcc)

99 Regarding Kim Davis, I always thought she got the argument wrong. She made it a free exercise argument. In my opinion, she should have made it a pure Constitutional argument. She took an oath to uphold the KY and US Constitution. Nothing in the US Constitution prohibits what was in the KY constitution. Basically ignore the Court on the grounds that the Court is not the sole arbiter as to what is Constitutional.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (gmeXX)

100
Paste Fucking Couch Eaters!

When AtC says 'fuck' I get the strangest boner! Squawk!

Posted by: Andrew Jackson's Parrot at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (KId5h)

101 The difference between 'smog' and 'smug' is U, man!

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 12:03 PM (jVvcc)

102 I wonder if this means it's dawning on some of them that something's out of the bottle that ain't going back in...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:03 PM (9krrF)

103 It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil.

"There is a principle which is a bar against
all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not
fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt
prior to investigation."

It is a great time-saver. Leaving more for the internet and abusing Browns fans (spent yesterday moving furniture with one... in Illinois).

Posted by: DaveA at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (DL2i+)

104 Farmers in love with subsidies, nitwit students and professors in Lawrence (KU), government zombies in Topeka, and union stooges and soccer moms in Johnson County all count as "What's the Matter with Kansas."

There are a few right-leaning enclaves (Wichita surrounding areas) but, at best, Kansas is purple. Dan Glickman, Arlen Specter and Kathleen Sebelius count among our gifts to the rest of the country. You're welcome.

Posted by: Top.Man at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (LuUKj)

105 That's the problem with SJW hoaxes. When they can't find evidence that supports their overweening sense of superiority, they make sh*t up.

Posted by: mrp at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (JBggj)

106 When AtC says 'fuck' I get the strangest boner! Squawk!
Posted by: Andrew Jackson's Parrot at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (KId5h)



Well that will last way more than 4 hours then.

Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (mf5HN)

107 The liberals have carte blanche in all the large urban centers and for the most part they are all failures.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (zFzxj)

108 Whenever a lefty site makes a concession like this I immediately get suspicious. Part of that is the fact that I'm a paranoid asshole, but partly it's because I've learned that the left is much, much better at preparing the ground for its ideological battles.

So, what does a lefty fever-swamp like Vox have to gain from an admission against interest like this? It means that they are pretty sure they have the middle class locked up and they are going to recruit the white lower class: "Gosh, we're sorry we mocked you. That was just crass trendoids. We actually have your best interests at heart. In fact, we love you so much that we are going to do stuff that makes your life easier, like enmeshing you in a net of dependence. Have some money! It's free!"

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (RD7QR)

109 Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 11:58 AM (mf5HN)

The problem with smugness is that it fails to understand the appeal of your opponent and thus cannot defend against them.

I understand Trump's appeal. I disagree strongly, but I've taken time to understand it. (Still can't get Hillary's appeal, do get Bernie's.)

Simply saying "rubes!" is burying one's head in the sand.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at April 21, 2016 12:05 PM (tM4uk)

110 Every time I get ready to say or type "there oughta be a law" I stop and

A. criticize my slang usage.

or

B. shut up. Because the fact is, we have, by a metric fuckton, way too laws already. So I don't say or type it.

New laws, like new taxes, hands more power to gubmint.

And that's the damn problem to start with.

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 21, 2016 12:05 PM (gyKtp)

111 Good news! According to a report by the AP, white women's life expectancy has dropped by four weeks!

Unfortunately, white males' life expectancy has held steady.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 21, 2016 12:05 PM (FsuaD)

112 Ace, thank you: I wouldn't have found this over at Vox.

The author seems like someone you could argue with, without getting hostile or needing to. Gosh, I remember when that used to be possible.

Alexthechick, #65:

"It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil."

This is what drives me nuts about the word "enemy" being flung around domestic politics, by our president, by Mrs. Clinton, and by more and more on the right.

Posted by: JPS at April 21, 2016 12:05 PM (rIwuT)

113 They are in essence propagandists and victims of their own propaganda. They are also autocrats always striving to keep the fiction going by coercion, usurpation and dictatorial action."

It's not new - in my youth one saw the NY Daily News for sale in subway stations (NOKD), while The Times was prominently displayed at train stations, and one could find plenty of commentariat thanks to wanna be Lenny Bruce types.

The difference today is the reach of the mandarin class - back then they had little (comparative) influence on my day to day life. Today, well, I'm sure I'm well past the three felonies per day limit.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 21, 2016 12:06 PM (C9pBZ)

114 The gods hate Kansas.

http://bit.ly/23LIbrH

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 21, 2016 12:06 PM (k4M/B)

115
"Wait, Seth. You just said you'd pay more in taxes to help people out right? Because you value that more than money? I'm just trying to understand why it's noble when you act against your self interest, but stupid when other people do it. "

Ah, it was a thing of beauty.
Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 11:55 AM (g5qNI)
----------------------

My response to the liberal "I would pay more for X" (meaning they would welcome a tax raise) is "WHAT'S STOPPING YOU?" I.e. no liberal has to wait to be taxed in order to start supporting other people's medical or educational or whatever charity needs. "There's a Catholic church down the street that collects money for its Mexican mission in San Felipe, which educates Mexican kids and takes care of poor and sick Mexicans. They'd welcome a donation from you. You'd welcome the chance to give your money for these causes, so WHAT'S STOPPING YOU?"

And I won't take any change of subject. If they try to sidestep, I say "Your answer will begin with the words, 'What's stopping me is . . .'"

Well, it always stops their mouths I can tell you.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:06 PM (pC96u)

116 I actually read the whole thing. You should too. Fantastic, fascinating article. Real self-awareness from a Vox editor. Can the left do it?

Can the right? What we have to accept is that disarmament must be bilateral.

I was most moved when he touched on this toward the end:
>Pretend for a moment that all of it is true ... That the dumbass hicks are to blame. They can't help it: Their brains don't work. They isolate themselves from all the Good Facts, and they're being taken for a ride by con men.
Pretend the ridicule worked too: that the videos and the Twitter burns and destroying the opposition made all the bad guys go away.
What kind of world would it leave us? An endless cycle of jokes? Of sick burns and smart tweets and knowing? Relative to whom? The smug style demands an object of disdain; it would find a new one quickly.

He has seen what they will become. And yet he is a unicorn.

The hour is late.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 21, 2016 12:06 PM (xuouz)

117 It is a great time-saver. Leaving more for the internet and abusing Browns fans (spent yesterday moving furniture with one... in Illinois).

Posted by: DaveA at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (DL2i+)



I'm so sorry your barrel ran out of fish.

Speaking of the Browns, I cannot decide what I think of the draft trade other than yay look at all the extra opportunities to fuck up!

Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 12:06 PM (mf5HN)

118 Hillary's appeal is that she represents middle aged white women and people who liked Bill.

Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 12:06 PM (g5qNI)

119 The smug style, at bottom, is a failure of empathy. Further: It is a failure to believe that empathy has any value at all. It is the notion that anybody worthy of liberal time and attention and respect must capitulate, immediately, to the Good Facts.

That was a great article. I some silly agree with the quote above. Replace "liberal" with whatever you current ideology is.

Posted by: @votermom at April 21, 2016 12:07 PM (nbrY/)

120 Being unremorseful and smug is a fatalistic combination. I believe under Obama, liberals were ghastly overjoyed at the amount to which he would push a political agenda against the will of the people. It's one of the first times really, these boundaries have been pushed that far without any sensitivity to the governed.

'Absolute power corrupts, absolutely". Lord Acton was correct. Liberals are really now true believers in the Thousand Year Reich. They act as though nobody will ever get in power besides them and when they do, that person won't have the gall to use the same methods to change things back.

That appears to be a pretty good bet in this environment where Trump and Cruz supporters are clubbing each other. It makes me wonder who really is more stupid.

Good new being, it can't last forever.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 21, 2016 12:07 PM (O0lVq)

121 Every time I get ready to say or type "there oughta be a law" I stop

Word. Any "conservative" using that phrase should be clubbed like a baby seal.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:07 PM (9krrF)

122 Read the whole fucking thing and then share it.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 21, 2016 12:08 PM (xuouz)

123 "It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil."

The Left is vile and evil ... and self-hating. Don't blame me.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 21, 2016 12:08 PM (zc3Db)

124 It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil

The two sides aren't equivalent or symmetrical. The left, if successful, wants to control your life. The right largely wants to be left alone.

Posted by: pep at April 21, 2016 12:08 PM (3e8zv)

125 Posted by: JPS at April 21, 2016 12:05 PM (rIwuT)

It used to be the loyal opposition. Unfortunately I've think we have reached the point where the Left is the enemy and we are presently in a Cold War.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at April 21, 2016 12:08 PM (zFzxj)

126 Joe Hallenbeck, #87:

"Why don't these smug liberals break up with us."

Because then we'd be free to do what we want, and that is unacceptable.

Posted by: JPS at April 21, 2016 12:08 PM (rIwuT)

127
Boner! Squawk!

Posted by: Andrew Jackson's Parrot at April 21, 2016 12:09 PM (KId5h)

128 Sometimes your enemy really is your enemy.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 21, 2016 12:09 PM (k4M/B)

129 ...and to the Liberal, if you do not acknowledge their "facts" then you are, at best, stupid and at worst, evil.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm

As evidenced by the cries of Hitler! Racist! Homophobe! Woman Hater!

Posted by: Cheri at April 21, 2016 12:09 PM (oiNtH)

130
Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (RD7QR)

---------------------

I think not. The stink of smugness is so strong on the left that even some of them have noticed it.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:09 PM (pC96u)

131
77 I thought "trib-alism" was Ace's favourite word?
Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 11:57 AM (jVvcc)



No, actually, ace's favourite word is "tribbing".

I suggest you not look it up.Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 11:59 AM (TOssO)
Is that anything like "tribadism?"

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 21, 2016 12:09 PM (X6fMO)

132 "Because then we'd be free to do what we want, and that is unacceptable."

Yep. We're trapped in an abusive relationship with an asshole who refuses to grant us a divorce.

Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 12:09 PM (g5qNI)

133 the article mentioned Kevin Williamson as an example of the smug style on the right. it was part of the passage I quoted.

but i cut it, not to protect williamson, but just because, as you can see, i quoted quite a lot and was looking to cut anything to make the quote more reasonable.

Posted by: ace at April 21, 2016 12:11 PM (dciA+)

134
"You're better off watching nothing than watching Fox."
.............................
But if I watch Fox I see Heather Nauert in a short dress.
And Maria Molina in a tight sweater.

Posted by: wth at April 21, 2016 12:11 PM (HgMAr)

135 The US federal debt is over $19 trillion.

That's a lot.

Posted by: mrp at April 21, 2016 12:11 PM (JBggj)

136
Every time I get ready to say or type "there oughta be a law" I stop

Word. Any "conservative" using that phrase should be clubbed like a baby seal.
Posted by: Brother Cavil


So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 21, 2016 12:12 PM (k4M/B)

137 Liberals are really now true believers in the Thousand Year Reich"

That's been a goal of fascists since, well, forever.

Pep's words at 124 should be enshrined.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 21, 2016 12:12 PM (C9pBZ)

138 This unbelievable! Unfortunately I can't read the whole thing right now though because Vox is blocked on my work computer.

Meanwhile, I can't believe no one has referenced that South Park episode "Smug Alert!" yet. It was a brilliant parody of liberal smugness.

Posted by: Serenity Now! at April 21, 2016 12:12 PM (BDZWU)

139 Wow. Hope that author owns a bulletproof vest or two.

Posted by: MacGruber at April 21, 2016 12:12 PM (kQBSd)

140 The two sides aren't equivalent or symmetrical. The left, if successful, wants to control your life. The right largely wants to be left alone.

Posted by: pep at April 21, 2016 12:08 PM (3e8zv)


Yep. It's easy for leftists to live under conservatives since the Constitution gives leftist states the power to become the leftist shitholes they so love. But conservatives can't live under leftists because leftists demand that EVERYONE become a leftist. There is no comparison between the two.

Further, leftists have just about every other country in the world to go to, which they would quickly tell you are all much better and more decent than America while conservatives have nowhere but America. But, instead of leftists heading to places they claim are better they demand to stay here and turn this place into just another shithole.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 21, 2016 12:12 PM (zc3Db)

141 the article mentioned Kevin Williamson as an example of the smug style on the right. it was part of the passage I quoted.

-----------

Eh - I like Williamson. I may be one of the few left around these parts.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:12 PM (gmeXX)

142 Joncelli I think this guy is being sincere. They are going too far, too far altogether with their flashmob shaming and doxing and clamoring for scalps. The little Berniebots will want Hillary drawn and quartered and the Hillary people will want the same.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (xuouz)

143 Tribbleism.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (k4M/B)

144 They're betting they can keep the opposition in check with their divisive rhetoric, empty pathos arguments, fallacious assignations and false pretenses.

Right now they are correct. How did we get form "anybody but Obama" to Trump is the antichrist.

Right there is the dichotomy of fools.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (O0lVq)

145 So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"

Republicans don't falsely claim to be libertarians when they run for office.

Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (O7MnT)

146 And I won't take any change of subject. If they try to sidestep, I say "Your answer will begin with the words, 'What's stopping me is . . .'"

Well, it always stops their mouths I can tell you.

Posted by: iforgot

What is stopping me is that I want this done with other people's money not my own.
--admitted by no liberal ever

Posted by: Cheri at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (oiNtH)

147 I wake up in a world where this is on Vox and the Caps are hanging with the Flyers in the playoffs.

The next thing I know we will be back to the Berenstein Bears and I will have a good relationship with my parents again. Of course I don't know if Obama was President in that one.

Posted by: Colonel Kurtz at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (Xjbjx)

148 So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"

-----------

A conservative is a libertarian when it comes to the federal government.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:14 PM (gmeXX)

149 So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"

One believes that the individual is "responsible for his actions" while the other is "like oh, it's all so 420 dude..."

at least in my experience. YMMV.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 21, 2016 12:14 PM (C9pBZ)

150 When decent people living in Germany during the early 1940s wished for Allied bombs to fall on their country, could you really blame them?

Posted by: CrustyB at April 21, 2016 12:15 PM (GvSpB)

151 "It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil."

This is what drives me nuts about the word "enemy" being flung around domestic politics, by our president, by Mrs. Clinton, and by more and more on the right.



When you want to force me, at the point of a gun, to do something that I find morally reprehensible, you ARE my mortal enemy.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:15 PM (wwx67)

152 Disdain for people who don't believe as you do is common all around, on all sides. It's really just a reflection of the Original Sin of Hubris, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The older I get, the more I see that a good-enough outcome, or even a not too bad one, freely chosen, is way better for libery than "The Correct" policy imposed.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at April 21, 2016 12:16 PM (evdj2)

153 I know one thing: that I know nothing

especially what I just drank.

Posted by: Socrates Johnson at April 21, 2016 12:16 PM (RKQ/v)

154 So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"

Once I would have said "degree". Likely also social issues, due to the unfortunate number of "libertinians/liberaltarians" I keep running into.

Now I'm not sure what either of them stand for in practice. And I've had a belly full of both their rhetoric.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:16 PM (9krrF)

155 Note the presumption that all of these bogus studies and absurd bigoted statements about their superiority are true. Not "look at what some say" but "here's what is true, we should react better."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 21, 2016 12:16 PM (39g3+)

156
Hillary's appeal is that she represents middle aged white women and people who liked Bill.
Posted by: Lauren at April 21, 2016 12:06 PM (g5qNI)
--------------------

I disagree. I think her appeal is ALL an illusion: of her intelligence, her diligence, her victories against stupid and mean-spirited political enemies, her care for the innocent and indigent, and her female superiority.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:16 PM (pC96u)

157 So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"



Open borders.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:17 PM (wwx67)

158 Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 11:53 AM (mf5HN)

What she said

Posted by: @votermom at April 21, 2016 12:17 PM (nbrY/)

159 So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"

Libertarians are socially left and fiscally right. Conservatives are socially and fiscally right.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 21, 2016 12:17 PM (39g3+)

160 Everyone who drives slower than me is an idiot. Everyone driving faster is a maniac.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at April 21, 2016 12:17 PM (evdj2)

161 130
Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:04 PM (RD7QR)

---------------------

I think not. The stink of smugness is so strong on the left that even some of them have noticed it.
Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:09 PM (pC96u)

[Dismissive wave] You disagree because your amygdala is inferior to mine.

Okay, now serious. I think this article is instrumental. I'm saying that acknowledging the smug is simply a way of preparing the troops for a new battle, one in which they have to deal better with the rubes they once mocked.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:17 PM (RD7QR)

162 I disagree. I think her appeal is ALL an illusion: of her intelligence, her diligence, her victories against stupid and mean-spirited political enemies, her care for the innocent and indigent, and her female superiority.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:16 PM (pC96u)


But she can really tongue kiss the shit out of Suha Arafat.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 21, 2016 12:18 PM (zc3Db)

163 The point of that article seems to be that progressives should stop being so smug and should stop calling non-progressives stupid when they should focus more on calling non-progressives evil and morally bankrupt.

Posted by: gwelf at April 21, 2016 12:18 PM (TJ8HB)

164 Sorry progressives , that bridge has been burnt .
It's "Fuck You , War" , from here on out .
I will , however , consider their unconditional surrender .

Posted by: awkward davies at April 21, 2016 12:18 PM (7Awbj)

165 I think her appeal is ALL an illusion

-------------

I don't think she has much appeal at all. I honestly have not met one person who likes her - even liberals. She just exists. She is just there. In its own way it is rather remarkable.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:18 PM (gmeXX)

166
The two sides aren't equivalent or symmetrical. The left, if successful, wants to control your life. The right largely wants to be left alone.


The left wants to put you in jail, not just control you. See Bill "you climate deniers need to be imprisoned!!" Nye.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 21, 2016 12:19 PM (X6fMO)

167 I just finished reading it off the link at Hot Air...

What is a thinking person doing writing for Vox? If anyone at the Federalist or National Review had this kind of sense, they would be worth reading.

Sure, he's talking about liberals, but you could apply the same argument to the GOP Establishment and pack of right wing writers living in New York City.

Posted by: jwest at April 21, 2016 12:19 PM (Zs4uk)

168 Also, the next person to try to distill of of political thought down to one axis gets pistol-whipped. It's just dumb. Knock it off already.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:19 PM (9krrF)

169 Good article, but I noticed no answer or solution was even considered.

Posted by: Roy at April 21, 2016 12:20 PM (VndSC)

170 I disagree with the flat rejection of negotiation with the left because they're evil. Not because they aren't evil, but as an effective tactic for turning the cultural and political tide.

It's the "banality of evil" quandary. The evil you're talking about is being carried out by our own sons and daughters. It's been made tasteful to be a smug hypocrite brownshirt liberal, cheering the arrest of Kim Davis, the shooting of the men in the parks building in Oregon.

These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not. We have to try to save them, convert them, at least get them to this Emmett Rensin's position where they're willing to make policy that will benefit whites as well as elites and minorities. If the country could unify in this way we could deal collectivism, or at least the marxist weapon of identity politics married to critical theory, a generational blow. If not, any victory we can win will be temporary.

We have to strike them where they're strongest, expose this moral flaw.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 21, 2016 12:20 PM (xuouz)

171 142 Joncelli I think this guy is being sincere. They are going too far, too far altogether with their flashmob shaming and doxing and clamoring for scalps. The little Berniebots will want Hillary drawn and quartered and the Hillary people will want the same.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (xuouz)

No, I don't think he's insincere, I just think his sincerity is instrumental.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:21 PM (RD7QR)

172 >>the article mentioned Kevin Williamson as an example of the smug style on the right. it was part of the passage I quoted.

OK, need to read the article.

I would say the right's smug style really came out with Palin, the Tea Party, and now Trump. Not that *any* of these are above criticism, it's really more about the kind of criticism - the 'OMG, these people embarrass us, no, they are not one of us' distancing and falling in with the Left in mocking them (such as Morning Joe appearances where they chuckle with the other NYC/DC media panelists at the rubes who take any of this seriously).

It's been revealing, helped many me (and assume many others) see the GOPe's mask slip.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 21, 2016 12:22 PM (NOIQH)

173
What is stopping me is that I want this done with other people's money not my own.
--admitted by no liberal ever
Posted by: Cheri at April 21, 2016 12:13 PM (oiNtH)
-----------------------

100% correct.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:22 PM (pC96u)

174 rickb223, #151:

"When you want to force me, at the point of a gun, to do something that I find morally reprehensible, you ARE my mortal enemy."

Yes. Some of my political opponents do; would absolutely put me in a camp if they could. They're the enemy. Many others do not. I find it useful in my daily life to differentiate.

Posted by: JPS at April 21, 2016 12:23 PM (rIwuT)

175 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not. We have to try to save them, convert them, at least get them to this Emmett Rensin's position



Why? Says who? Secede and let them run their own shithole or civil war. I don't care which.

You don't make deals with mental deficients.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:23 PM (wwx67)

176 98 Thanks for explaining that to all those Flyover Country types, Oregon Muse.
Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 12:02 PM (jVvcc)


Argh. I didn't realize you were making a joke.

No, I did not see a fastball blow by me. Was there one?

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 12:23 PM (TOssO)

177 >>Everyone who drives slower than me is an idiot. Everyone driving faster is a maniac.


I blame Lyin' Ted. Lyin' Ted is a very bad driver. Very, very, very...immensely bad. We need Cruz Control!

Posted by: Donald Trump's Forehead Merkin at April 21, 2016 12:24 PM (4bzP6)

178 Take a closer look. The writer never says that liberal orthodoxy is wrong, just they alienated the rubes by how they presented it.

Why is this story remarkable?

Posted by: Marcus Aurelius' Underpants at April 21, 2016 12:24 PM (BaiNq)

179 This article is rubbish! We are not smug!

*farts into wine glass, inhales deeply*

AHHHHHHHHH!!!

Posted by: Left-Wing Resident of San Francisco at April 21, 2016 12:24 PM (BDZWU)

180 OT

TMZ is reporting that someone has died at Prince's estate in Minnesota. Next of kin being notified.

Posted by: Mr. Pedantry at April 21, 2016 12:24 PM (m/Gc2)

181 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not"

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen"

Pretty much sums it all up for me, and has since I memorized that back in school...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 21, 2016 12:24 PM (C9pBZ)

182 So you're saying liberals like having their dick sucked by the media? How transphobic.

Posted by: Draki at April 21, 2016 12:25 PM (F6/Mp)

183
These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not.
---------------------

Oh so true. And the reason I loathe and repudiate Ted Cruz's "New York values" remark. I can't even tell you in how many ways and how hugely that remark was wrong.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:26 PM (pC96u)

184 I'm so sorry your barrel ran out of fish.


Look closelier.

http://smg.photobucket.com/
user/DRIFTER_016/media/
Fishing%20Reports/Pikapalooza
%202011/Solopaddler/Attawapiskat
May2011024.jpg.html

http://tinyurl.com/h3dl2ne

Posted by: DaveA at April 21, 2016 12:26 PM (DL2i+)

185 >>TMZ is reporting that someone has died at Prince's estate in Minnesota.


He was just rushed to a hospital after a show not too long ago.

Posted by: Crying Dove at April 21, 2016 12:26 PM (4bzP6)

186
Why is this story remarkable?
Posted by: Marcus Aurelius' Underpants at April 21, 2016 12:24 PM (BaiNq)

B/c they're turning on each other and it has hurt the author's feelings. They need to be smug to the conservatives not each other.

Posted by: Draki at April 21, 2016 12:27 PM (F6/Mp)

187 142 >> The little Berniebots will want Hillary drawn and quartered and the Hillary people will want the same.

Posted by: kari

I've got a couple hundred feet of rope I can donate to this cause.

Also, drawn? Like butter?

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 21, 2016 12:27 PM (gyKtp)

188 Nothing can happen to Prince; that would make me feel old and we can't have that.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:27 PM (RD7QR)

189 The Prince of China died? In flyover country?

Posted by: Joe Biden at April 21, 2016 12:27 PM (gwG9s)

190 Also, drawn? Like butter?"

Mmmm. Lobster anyone?

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (C9pBZ)

191
they alienated the rubes by how they presented it.
--------------------

More than a matter of presentation. Also a matter of how they affirm their ideas to themselves. It calls for some intellectual and even moral house-cleaning.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (pC96u)

192 You can lead a liberal to wisdom, but you can't make 'em think.

Posted by: Jack Handey at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (yn6XZ)

193 Okay, who put a Sodium Pentothal drip line into the water cooler at Vox?

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (qNI3R)

194 Sounds bad for Prince. But "The Paisley Park Estate" is a pretty snazzy name for his mansion.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (2cS/G)

195
"...Daily Show viewers and better-sized amygdalae..."
..................

That's not what she told me at the picnic.

Posted by: wth at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (HgMAr)

196 Good hygiene prevents smugma.

Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid at April 21, 2016 12:29 PM (DXFk8)

197 One thing that annoys me now is we're witnessing the tidal wave synchronization of all the failure modes every faction ignored in their own politics.

Posted by: DaveA at April 21, 2016 12:29 PM (DL2i+)

198 You can lead a liberal to wisdom, but you can't make 'em think.
Posted by: Jack Handey at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (yn6XZ)

And he won't take his hand out of my wallet until I cut it off.

Posted by: Draki at April 21, 2016 12:29 PM (F6/Mp)

199 makes sense. those guys are finally starting to reach net taxpayer aka Kansan status.

Posted by: x at April 21, 2016 12:30 PM (nFwvY)

200 No, I did not see a fastball blow by me. Was there one?
Last night's home-plate ump from the Jays-Orioles game says it was my ball four and you should go to first so no strikeout.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 12:30 PM (jVvcc)

201 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not.
---------------------

Oh so true. And the reason I loathe and repudiate Ted Cruz's "New York values" remark. I can't even tell you in how many ways and how hugely that remark was wrong.

----------

I don't. New Yorkers by and large do not share my values.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:30 PM (gmeXX)

202 Nothing can happen to Prince; that would make me feel old and we can't have that.



Say what you want about Prince. That boy can ball.

Charlie Murphy's True Hollywood Stories : Prince

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgED4bfhds

Posted by: garrett at April 21, 2016 12:30 PM (4bzP6)

203 197 One thing that annoys me now is we're witnessing the tidal wave synchronization of all the failure modes every faction ignored in their own politics.
Posted by: DaveA at April 21, 2016 12:29 PM (DL2i+)

So basically our politics have become a Three Stooges movie?

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:30 PM (RD7QR)

204 One thing that annoys me now is we're witnessing the tidal wave synchronization of all the failure modes every faction ignored in their own politics.



Aka, Mr. Maths haz his day.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:30 PM (wwx67)

205
TMZ is reporting that someone has died at Prince's estate in Minnesota.
____________________________

Could be me....

~sniff-sniff~

Posted by: Michelle Fields at April 21, 2016 12:31 PM (HSmrB)

206 liberals have carte blanche

-----

WHITE PRIVILEGE

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at April 21, 2016 12:31 PM (dU/fR)

207 It's been revealing, helped many me (and assume many others) see the GOPe's mask slip.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 21, 2016 12:22 PM (NOIQH)


Exactly so.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 12:32 PM (TOssO)

208 >>TMZ is reporting that someone has died at Prince's estate in Minnesota.


Sheila-E's Career?

Posted by: garrett at April 21, 2016 12:32 PM (4bzP6)

209 And out of the cloud of smug was born the Social Justice Warrior, clad in the Armor of Self-Righteousness, armed with Sword of Personal Truth. Ready to do battle against the troglodytic armies of Bigotry, Hatred, and Intolerance.

No Crusade has ever been Holier than those of the SJW.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Indulge Your Neuroses with a Custom Complaint from the Outrage Outlet! at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (hLRSq)

210 It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil.

Presume Yankees fans exception here.
Posted by: alexthechick - Destroyer of Gaia and Seductress of Savagery at April 21, 2016 11:53 AM (mf5HN)

If one cannot see how vile and evil the liberal scum in this country are, well then there's not much hope for that person, ever.

Posted by: Blano at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (iKG5d)

211 "You're on the WRONG side of History!"

I would rather be on the wrong side of history than the wrong side of God.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (1ijHg)

212 When decent people living in Germany during the
early 1940s wished for Allied bombs to fall on their country, could you
really blame them?

Posted by: CrustyB at April 21, 2016 12:15 PM (GvSpB)

Been reading "Survival in the Shadows" (Lovenheim) Kindle... About Jews hiding in Berlin during the Nazi period. Many decent Germans would take some in, and some did. But the Gestapo was looking for anyone all the time. Many did wish for the bombs. One whole family actually did survive intact.

Posted by: Colin at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (6IZ5e)

213 If he didn't change hi name back, Prince's death will literally be symbolic.

Posted by: garrett at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (4bzP6)

214 LOL. Yeah, 'cuz voting for bigger and bigger government is obviously in everybody's best interests!

Those veterans dying because they can't get seen at VA hospitals? What they need is bigger government!

Those lower and middle class working types who've seen their medical insurance premiums skyrocket (and their deductibles massively increase) since the passage of Obamacare? What they need is bigger government!

Those small business owners who've gone bust or are struggling to stay afloat because of the reams of government regulations they are forced to comply with? What they need is bigger government!

Those hundreds of thousands of American workers laid off from their jobs (but not before they were forced to train their cheaper foreign replacements)? What they need is bigger government!

Why can't you dummies understand that big government serves your best interests! Look how great it's been working for you so far!

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (BNs9e)

215 Being quartered is likely to cause bruising but not death. Quarters aren't that big and they have no sharp edges.

Posted by: Soledad O'Brien's Earpiece at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (O2a5e)

216 TMZ is reporting that someone has died at Prince's estate in Minnesota.


Sheila-E's Career?



Ouch.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:34 PM (wwx67)

217 More navel gazing by the left.

Real change comes from within the leadership, and unfortunately I don't see that happening. The old adage about coming for me last is playing out in today's SJW/PC worshipers and bitter clingers.

You want a world without judgement?
Well be ready to be judged on how non-judgemental you are!

Posted by: Jacob's Step Stool at April 21, 2016 12:34 PM (sqs5K)

218 Good hygiene prevents smugma.

Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid at April 21, 2016 12:29 PM (DXFk
=====
Thank you! Reminders from the reality-based community. Tee hee

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 21, 2016 12:34 PM (MIKMs)

219 I love how while he was berating the left for being mean, he could never admit that conservatism had legitimacy.

Posted by: iblis at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (25ZT+)

220 213 If he didn't change hi name back, Prince's death will literally be symbolic.
Posted by: garrett at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (4bzP6)

The Former Artist Formerly Known As Prince

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (RD7QR)

221 I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?

Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (dFi94)

222 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not. We have to try to save them, convert them, at least get them to this Emmett Rensin's position

WHere possible I'm fine with this but I suggest that it is not possible for us to do this with many (most?) of the modern left.

I'm not saying they cannot change, I'm saying they will not as a result of our outreach and arguments.
They do not care what you say or how you say it any more than they would a kindly approach by a mass murderer or Klan member. Your very existence is evil and should be denied, ignored, and hopefully blotted out from their perspective.

Think of it this way; no matter what his approach or how carefully argued his case, would you sit down and discuss anything with Josef Mengele? Pol Pot? Josef Stalin? Mao Tse Tung? Bill Ayers? That's how they view the average conservative American. You're that horrific and evil. You're that unworthy of even giving the slightest consideration.

In the past, these lunatics and radical freaks were simply marginalized and ignored as the intellectually and socially retarded trash they are. They were shunned and had no voice - as it should be.

Some will learn from reality and life. But many will not. Those people need to be put back in the corner of their freaky little NYC and San Francisco neighborhood where they can AIDS themselves to death and be forgotten. Bernie Sanders wasn't a problem while he was living in a van down by the river.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 21, 2016 12:36 PM (39g3+)

223 I told Prince to be careful but he smugly ignored me.

Posted by: Zombie David Carradine at April 21, 2016 12:36 PM (gwG9s)

224 221 I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?
Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (dFi94)

He got out-smugged.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:36 PM (RD7QR)

225 211 "You're on the WRONG side of History!"

I would rather be on the wrong side of history than the wrong side of God.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (1ijHg)




Amen.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:37 PM (wwx67)

226 221 I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?
Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (dFi94)


I think he's realizing that Trump (and to a lesser degree Cruz) can strip even more support away from the Dems this election, and they're already in trouble with enthusiasm for their front runner lower than that for an alien anal probe.

Posted by: iblis at April 21, 2016 12:37 PM (25ZT+)

227 There is no 'I' in smug.

Posted by: Smaug at April 21, 2016 12:37 PM (PNcou)

228 Heard from politicians after every political event that involves handshakes:

Yuck! I got Gomer cooties! Get 'em off! Get 'em off!

Surprised they don't wear exam gloves.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at April 21, 2016 12:37 PM (FtrY1)

229 "You're on the WRONG side of History!"

------------

History has a pretty long memory. I'll take my chances.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:38 PM (gmeXX)

230 So basically our politics have become a Three Stooges movie?

Everybody is tired of looking at TFG golf.

Posted by: DaveA at April 21, 2016 12:38 PM (DL2i+)

231 I would rather be on the wrong side of history than the wrong side of God.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at April 21, 2016 12:33 PM (1ijHg)


Yes Amen, but I am waiting for G-D to step up to the plate and punish the blasphemers!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 21, 2016 12:38 PM (V/InG)

232 221 I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?
Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree

taxes were due a few days ago. probably questioning why he votes against his own interest.

Posted by: x at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (nFwvY)

233
I don't. New Yorkers by and large do not share my values.
Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:30 PM (gmeXX)
--------------------

I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

hard work
big rewards
risk-taking
charity
imaginativeness
entrepreneurship
efficiency and competence

I could go on, but that's a start. The insanity is that with all that conservative constituency lying around waiting to be claimed, flaming socons like Ted Cruz instead piss on it because gay, because orgies, because gay orgies. New Yorkers are among the millions of Americans who vote contrary to their own interests, values, and beliefs in part because they're listening to only one side of the story and in part because our messengers are a bit thick.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (pC96u)

234 And the reason I loathe and repudiate Ted Cruz's "New York values" remark. I can't even tell you in how many ways and how hugely that remark was wrong.

----------

I don't. New Yorkers by and large do not share my values.


The city that elected Bill de Blasio, Chuck Schumer, Anthony Weiner, Hillary Clinton and made a power-broker out of Al Sharpton most definitely does not share my values.

Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (O7MnT)

235 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not. We have to try to save them, convert them, at least get them to this Emmett Rensin's position

The hell I do. This sounds more and more like that person in the zombie flick who sees their friend or loved one and can't acknowledge the fact that that person is gone. That in its place is a ravening creature that only sees you as something to be devoured.

Maybe some can be redeemed, but you'll excuse me if I don't take the time to pick them out from the mob that's coming for me.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (9krrF)

236 Increasingly it feels as though we're living in 1858. Or in Spain in 1935.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (oKE6c)

237 221 I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?

Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (dFi94)


I think votermom had it right at #33:

The author had a temporary attack of insight.
He should lie down until it passes.


Either that, or he was drinking too much.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (TOssO)

238 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not. We have to try to save them, convert them, at least get them to this Emmett Rensin's position

So what if they're my countrymen? They're still scum.

You go ahead and try to save them, and when they come for you, be thankful some of us spent that time arming up.

Posted by: Blano at April 21, 2016 12:40 PM (V+rgX)

239 I love how while he was berating the left for being mean, he could never admit that conservatism had legitimacy.

Posted by: iblis at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (25ZT+)
=========================================

I wonder sometimes. Do these people not have parents? Grandparents? Aunts and Uncles? Surely there must be within their family circle, some sensible conservatives, or people who go to church, or people knowledgable about political history. Or someone who has served in the military. They can't have just sprung up in a potato field. What do they say to these family members? Do they consider them evil? Stupid? Mentally deranged?

Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:40 PM (dFi94)

240
I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?
Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:35 PM (dFi94)

He got out-smugged.
Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at April 21, 2016 12:36 PM (RD7QR)
-------------------

He got smugged by reality.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:40 PM (pC96u)

241 "wrong side of history"


I love Marx's phrases. Another favorite is "root cause."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 21, 2016 12:40 PM (oKE6c)

242 I think he's realizing that Trump (and to a lesser degree Cruz) can strip even more support away from the Dems this election, and they're already in trouble with enthusiasm for their front runner lower than that for an alien anal probe.

I agree. They are sensing someone can steal away their numbers by appealing to sanity and America as a whole rather than split into hateful screaming niche groups.

I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

Yeah, that's all you observed, nothing about ethics, goals, morality, social behavior or anything. It was all glowing and wonderful! That's the ticket.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 21, 2016 12:41 PM (39g3+)

243 Aka, Mr. Maths haz his day.

True but I'm talking more about the veering from incomplete solution to different incomplete solution and calling it winning vs. coming up with a workable synthesis or bailing.

Posted by: DaveA at April 21, 2016 12:41 PM (DL2i+)

244 You could literally smell the tourists.

Posted by: Smug Harry Reid at April 21, 2016 12:41 PM (gwG9s)

245 Smug as a bug in a rug.

Posted by: Ready For Hillary!!11!! at April 21, 2016 12:42 PM (Dwehj)

246 237
221 I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?<<


He had to have lost a bet.

Posted by: MacGruber at April 21, 2016 12:42 PM (kQBSd)

247 Shorter version:

Smugged by reality.

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 21, 2016 12:42 PM (gyKtp)

248 I've been to New York"

Good for you. I grew up in the Lower East Side...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 21, 2016 12:42 PM (C9pBZ)

249 If it's Prince, then I'm officially calling myself middle aged. Man, what talent.
Sad to say, I believe he has a child with Pfeiffer syndrome, which results in a misshapen skull.

I don't know if this has gotten around, but the new person on the $20 was a gun-totin Republican.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at April 21, 2016 12:42 PM (hqZPQ)

250 Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (pC96u)

So let me ask you this: since you're a communications professional, how would you rework the GOP conservative messaging strategery so that would make sense to voters?

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 12:42 PM (TOssO)

251 Looks like Vox may have changed its business model. The smart money is shorting bullshit futures.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (O2a5e)

252

Which Shelia was it who was getting boned by Crockett on Miami Vice? Prince's, or the other one?

Posted by: Andrew Jackson's Parrot at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (KId5h)

253 Sounds bad for Prince. But "The Paisley Park Estate" is a pretty snazzy name for his mansion.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 21, 2016 12:28 PM (2cS/G)


Why Minnesota? If I had the kind of loot that Prince (or whatever his current moniker is) has, I'd have my estate somewhere that I didn't have to wear a parka 6 months of the year.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (UsLZp)

254 Well the author misses something. His article doesn't follow through to a particular conclusion. Trump acts a lot like a liberal. He does a caricature of what he thinks a conservative is. He hated George Bush with a passion. (That is referenced in the article). He was for Iraq and then against Iraq according to whatever the media told him. The same media that supposedly lies about him. You'll find this a lot with the celebrity class ---they say the media makes up or sensationalizes stories about them but they believe every damn evil thing about the military and the military effort ---when the media has triple the motive to editorialize.

Trump just said he was all for transgenders in the bathroom with little girls--"....because look at all the business they are losing, Look at all the (celebrity) rock concerts that were canceled ! That kind of blows the Kim Davis reference the author made---and then linking that to Trump as the man that empathizes with that.

Posted by: Ahoy! at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (mcm0N)

255 >>>>>I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:



hard work

big rewards

risk-taking

charity

imaginativeness

entrepreneurship

efficiency and competence



I could go on, but that's a start. The insanity is that with all
that conservative constituency lying around waiting to be claimed,
flaming socons like Ted Cruz instead piss on it because gay, because
orgies, because gay orgies. New Yorkers are among the millions of
Americans who vote contrary to their own interests, values, and beliefs
in part because they're listening to only one side of the story and in
part because our messengers are a bit thick.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (pC96u)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I drove a truck into and through all five Boroughs of NYC for quite some time and I most certainly did not observe those values with the exception of the risk taking thing.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (iONHu)

256 240 smugged by reality

Shit. iforgot beat me to it.

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (gyKtp)

257 233
I don't. New Yorkers by and large do not share my values.
Posted by: SH
--------------------

I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

Posted by: iforgot





The fact that they elected Hillary as one of their senators shows we don't share the same values.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (wwx67)

258 You could literally smell the tourists.

Posted by: Smug Harry Reid at April 21, 2016 12:41 PM (gwG9s)

Hey Harry, I have been to your hometown (Searchlight, NV) and I can tell when your there, (hardly ever) /sac

Posted by: Colin at April 21, 2016 12:43 PM (6IZ5e)

259 The insanity is that with all that conservative constituency lying around waiting to be claimed, flaming socons like Ted Cruz instead piss on it because gay, because orgies, because gay orgies.

Yeah conservatives are all for homosexual marriage and orgies! They're very sensitive though, so if someone mentions anything negative about a city, they run away and pout for a week.

Yeah, that's how it is.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 21, 2016 12:44 PM (39g3+)

260 >>I wonder sometimes. Do these people not have parents? Grandparents? Aunts and Uncles?


How many internet posts have we seen at Vox, HuffPost, Salon, etc. about "How to talk to your bigoted uncle about [progressive hobbyhorse] at the Thanksgiving/Christmas/Easter table"?

They see these conservative relatives as someone in need of a good lecture on how the world really works.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 21, 2016 12:44 PM (NOIQH)

261 I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

hard work
big rewards
risk-taking
charity
imaginativeness
entrepreneurship
efficiency and competence

I could go on, but that's a start. The insanity is that with all that conservative constituency lying around waiting to be claimed, flaming socons like Ted Cruz instead piss on it because gay, because orgies, because gay orgies. New Yorkers are among the millions of Americans who vote contrary to their own interests, values, and beliefs in part because they're listening to only one side of the story and in part because our messengers are a bit thick.
Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (pC96u)


The city that elected Bill de Blasio, Chuck Schumer, Anthony Weiner, Hillary Clinton and made a power-broker out of Al Sharpton most definitely does not share my values.

----------

Again, NY's by and large do not share my values.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:44 PM (gmeXX)

262 We all think Presdent Obama should visit countries in Africa to talk to peersons of color and tell them all the good things he has done for them. Also point out all the lies from Bush and how much he disliked persons of color and not to welcome him into there countries. Bush lied and Africans of Color have died unnecessary civil wars.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (KRuzk)

263 Even my chickens have an air of righteous smugness about them.

Posted by: Colonel Bernie Sanders at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (Dwehj)

264 I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

- Draconian gun control laws.
- Confiscatory taxation levels
- Sanctuary Cities
- Casual acceptance of corruption in Government

Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (O7MnT)

265 178 is right. The left is still never wrong. It's just that the right is too stupid to realize it is wrong and the left isn't subtle enough to voxplain it to the cretins.

Posted by: ejo at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (il4FI)

266 I wonder sometimes. Do these people not have parents? Grandparents? Aunts and Uncles? Surely there must be within their family circle, some sensible conservatives, or people who go to church, or people knowledgable about political history. Or someone who has served in the military. They can't have just sprung up in a potato field. What do they say to these family members? Do they consider them evil? Stupid? Mentally deranged?

Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:40 PM (dFi94)


Yes. A great deal of what motivates the Western Left is their hate of their fathers and everyone else in their families. They hate everything that reminds them of themselves or their family and wants to destroy it all, which is why they glom onto every anti-American, anti-Western thing that comes their way. They are deranged, suicidal cowards who just wish to bring on the destruction of everything familiar, starting with their fathers.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (zc3Db)

267 238 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not. We have to try to save them, convert them, at least get them to this Emmett Rensin's position


Yea. About that.

Posted by: German Jews ca. 1939 at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (DXFk8)

268 They can't have just sprung up in a potato field. What do they say to these family members? Do they consider them evil? Stupid? Mentally deranged?

From what I've seen from occasional Horde reports, and from encounters with friends less fortunate than I, yeah, pretty much.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:46 PM (9krrF)

269 Funny the article brought up John Stewart. I remember the O rielly/Stewart debate. Stewart didn't know the difference between the yearly deficit and the national debt.

And then went on to goof on fly over people. Check the you tube video.

Posted by: redenzo at April 21, 2016 12:46 PM (WCnJW)

270 Well. Quite the article. Thanks for linking to it Ace.

Posted by: chemjeff at April 21, 2016 12:46 PM (dpnZC)

271
I wonder sometimes. Do these people not have parents? Grandparents? Aunts and Uncles? Surely there must be within their family circle, some sensible conservatives, or people who go to church, or people knowledgable about political history. Or someone who has served in the military. They can't have just sprung up in a potato field. What do they say to these family members? Do they consider them evil? Stupid? Mentally deranged?
Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:40 PM (dFi94)
------------------------

grammie, I can give you a sad answer to that. The compartmentalization these people are capable of is mind-boggling.

I've got a lefty relative who has simply lost her mind. She will literally raise her hand to people who disagree with her on politics -- including her uncles, aunts, and cousins. Instead of answering, she literally slams doors and punches walls. Her mother doesn't even go there with her anymore. Her beloved grandmother is the only one with enough influence to at least shame her. Yes, she considers us evil, stupid, and mentally deranged. I used to laugh appreciatively at the statement that "Liberalism is a mental illness," but I now take it seriously. I haven't pondered out the mechanism, but her brand of liberalism and mental illness have some relationship.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:47 PM (pC96u)

272 221 I wonder what motivated the author to write this piece?

---

over-celebrated 420 day?

Posted by: Smaug at April 21, 2016 12:47 PM (PNcou)

273 It's not that liberals are necessarily stupid (although some are, of course, as in any group), but that they're prone to being stampeded. The Reds who drive the liberal bus need only get a few culturally prominent figures (yeah, I'm looking at you Colbert and Liebowitz) to set the standard for cool and hip, and a huge swath of liberals will pile on so as not to be drummed out of the pack.


I've ranted previously about this social pressure mechanism in connection with women, who are especially susceptible to it, but it's true of liberals generally. If the Party line shifts, they shift too, as fast as a CPUSA member reading about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 21, 2016 12:47 PM (oKE6c)

274 I've been to York England. Here's what I heard:

"Wuldn't nuffin"
"Yo alrigh'?"
"Bloowy Hell"
"Aw, jus' a cheeky' fellah"
"Fookin Newcas'le"

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at April 21, 2016 12:47 PM (hqZPQ)

275 Edit: Trump just said he was all for transgenders in the bathroom with little girls--"....because look at all the business North Carolina is losing, Look at all the (celebrity) rock concerts that were canceled! That kind of blows the Kim Davis reference the author made---to in a sense defend Trump as a man of the little people, or at least as a man that empathizes with them and their values.

Posted by: Ahoy! at April 21, 2016 12:48 PM (mcm0N)

276 Prince was from Minnesota, probably built his dream house there.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 21, 2016 12:48 PM (2cS/G)

277 Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (pC96u)

Anything halfway decent about them is more than offset by all the scummy stuff about them.

Iran can drop a nuke on them for all I care.

Posted by: Blano at April 21, 2016 12:48 PM (iKG5d)

278 And the reason I loathe and repudiate Ted Cruz's
"New York values" remark. I can't even tell you in how many ways and how
hugely that remark was wrong.



----------



I don't. New Yorkers by and large do not share my values.



The city that elected Bill de Blasio, Chuck Schumer, Anthony Weiner,
Hillary Clinton and made a power-broker out of Al Sharpton most
definitely does not share my values.

Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (O7MnT)
=====
Civilization has not passed the Appalachian Mts yet. When the ignorant masses west of NYC receive the beneficent and true enlightenment from our betters, maybe then, maybe if they wish and clap three times very loudly, we of the anointing class will allow flyover non-people from Jesusland to kiss our ring, marvel at our hair and other edifices, and become part of the values that our founding Tories espoused. Little people; we love the little people; and the little people love our New York values. /s

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 21, 2016 12:48 PM (MIKMs)

279 I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

hard work
big rewards
risk-taking
charity
imaginativeness
entrepreneurship
efficiency and competence


Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (pC96u)


I was born in NYC and still live in NY. And over my lifetime I've witnessed

Corruption
Sloth
Criminality
licentiousness
pettiness
rudeness
selfishness
myopia
contempt
racism
greed
cronyism
elitism
Anti-Americanism

On a daily basis. So as a NYer I say Fuck NY values. NY has the government it deserves, and I hope that if Trump or Cruz wins, they enact policies that stick it to the liberal pieties of NY's scum elites on a daily basis. And twice on Sundays.

Posted by: iblis at April 21, 2016 12:48 PM (25ZT+)

280 John Kasich, in the Washington Post: "If you don't have ideas, you got nothing, and frankly my Republican Party doesn't like ideas."

Somebody take this guy's fraternity pin.

Posted by: General Zod at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (Bdeb0)

281 Re: Thomas Frank.

He's become an interesting case, to me at least.

First he swam into my gestalt as the token nutty Red on the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

Notable for a complete lack of any knowledge of actual economics whatsoever; not unusual for a history major, but jeez, dude, you're embarrassing yourself.

Anyway, his schtick was Mr. Tommy One-Note to conservatives and Republicans: 'You're wrong! I KNOW better!'

It got old real fast.

Now, Frank is to be found doing the same thing to Democrats, and leftys in general, in the Guardian:
'You're wrong, I KNOW better!'

He's just a reflexive contrarian, and a smug one at that.

But it seems to pay the bills.

I just wonder what earthly use he is.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (XdbLA)

282 I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

hard work
big rewards
risk-taking
charity
imaginativeness
entrepreneurship
efficiency and competence

---

and you won't ever see any of those outside of the Big Apple. They define the place...

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (PNcou)

283 Leftists aren't stupid as a whole. They are fools. They are the kind of people who can know something but wish it to be different and follow their hearts. Governor Moonbeam said it perfectly about the 15 an hour minimum wage, "this may not make economic sense but..."

I know this is a bad idea, but it feels good, so lets do it. They are guided by emotions and childish wishes rather than hard reality. They aren't stupid, they aren't uneducated, they're just fools.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (39g3+)

284
I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

- Draconian gun control laws.
- Confiscatory taxation levels
- Sanctuary Cities
- Casual acceptance of corruption in Government
Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (O7MnT)
--------------------

Those aren't "values." Those are the perverse results of their schizophrenic voting habits, which are contrary to their values.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (pC96u)

285 TMZ-Prince dead.

Posted by: Mr. Pedantry at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (m/Gc2)

286 Wow. That vox article gets better and better towards the end.

Posted by: ArthurK at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (h53OH)

287 So let me ask you this: since you're a communications professional, how would you rework the GOP conservative messaging strategery so that would make sense to voters?

Posted by: OregonMuse


This was directed to a particular person so I'll withhold my screaming. But oh, there is screaming to be done about this question.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:50 PM (9krrF)

288 They see these conservative relatives as someone in need of a good lecture on how the world really works.
Posted by: Lizzy



They might have more effect if they, you know, actually worked do they would know how the world really works.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:50 PM (wwx67)

289 They are deranged, suicidal cowards who just wish to
bring on the destruction of everything familiar, starting with their
fathers.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (zc3Db)
======================================

Yes. I think many on the smug list may come from less than stable, loving homes, where structure existed within a framework of unending affection.

Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:50 PM (dFi94)

290 Civilization has not passed the Appalachian Mts yet."

The New Yorker Magazine, 1976.

Like I said, this isn't new. Just the scope and reach.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at April 21, 2016 12:50 PM (C9pBZ)

291 I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

- Draconian gun control laws.
- Confiscatory taxation levels
- Sanctuary Cities
- Casual acceptance of corruption in Government
Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (O7MnT)


Yeah, so?

Posted by: Baltimore at April 21, 2016 12:51 PM (TOssO)

292 Blow me Clogginstien !!!

Posted by: William Jefferson Clinton at April 21, 2016 12:52 PM (olXqQ)

293
and you won't ever see any of those outside of the Big Apple. They define the place...
Posted by: buzzsaw90 at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (PNcou)
----------------------

Precisely! The exact location of the irony! Instead of telling those midwesterners that New Yorkers share many of the same values as midwesterners, he had to get divisive on everyone's ass. It was the perfect opportunity to point out what Americans have in common from sea to shining sea, but No.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:52 PM (pC96u)

294 "It is central to the liberal self-conception that what separates them from reactionaries is a desire to help people, a desire to create a fairer and more just world. Liberals still want, or believe they still want, to make a more perfect union."

No. Liberals want to force other people to "help" people. Every one of their goals is reached by the threat of force.

In all this noise about attitudes, and self___s, it's worth remembering that the fundamental core of the liberal movement is a set of political ideas, chief among them that a properly organized society consists of an all-powerful central authority that dictates the distribution of wealth, and controls every aspect of our lives down to what light bulbs we are permitted to use.

The Left is a load of totalitarian thugs, and has been for close to a century. That they have contempt for anyone who isn't a totalitarian thug is kind of beside the point.

Posted by: TB at April 21, 2016 12:52 PM (UXEYz)

295 Those aren't "values." Those are the perverse results of their schizophrenic voting habits, which are contrary to their values.



Those ARE their values. That's WHAT they want.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:52 PM (wwx67)

296

B-52's bombing ISIS, Love Shack destroyed...

Posted by: Andrew Jackson's Parrot at April 21, 2016 12:52 PM (KId5h)

297 Those aren't "values." Those are the perverse results of their schizophrenic voting habits, which are contrary to their values.

Is this sarcasm? I really don't know this time.

Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:52 PM (O7MnT)

298 On a daily basis. So as a NYer I say Fuck NY
values. NY has the government it deserves, and I hope that if Trump or
Cruz wins, they enact policies that stick it to the liberal pieties of
NY's scum elites on a daily basis. And twice on Sundays.

Posted by: iblis at April 21, 2016 12:48 PM (25ZT+)
Add Cuomo to the list of corrupt pols in NY...

Posted by: Colin at April 21, 2016 12:52 PM (6IZ5e)

299 Those aren't "values." Those are the perverse results of their schizophrenic voting habits, which are contrary to their values.
Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (pC96u)

You're joking, right? They vote opposite their values?

Silly comment of the day award winner here.

Posted by: Blano at April 21, 2016 12:53 PM (V+rgX)

300
So, what's the difference between "conservative" and "libertarian?"


Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 21, 2016 12:12 PM (k4M/B)


Conservatives are generally animated by a desire for stability and rule of law, preserving the status quo.

Libertarians are animated by a desire to maximize personal freedom.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at April 21, 2016 12:53 PM (LUG6K)

301 Those aren't "values." Those are the perverse results of their schizophrenic voting habits, which are contrary to their values.
Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 12:49 PM (pC96u)

---

New book idea: "What's the matter with New York"

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at April 21, 2016 12:53 PM (PNcou)

302 I am sure Bush had something to do with the B-52s bombing the children of color in Iraq. Bush lied and people died !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at April 21, 2016 12:54 PM (KRuzk)

303 I interpreted Ted Cruz's "New York values" as that of the NYC elite - definitely their politicians, their media elite that so influence our news and entertainment programming (like the glowing interviews with "pregnant man" and "fun ideas for a botox party w/your gal pals").

Also, these NYC elites have made it clear that the disdain is mutual - they've been openly hating red state/flyover state values for many years.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 21, 2016 12:54 PM (NOIQH)

304 284
I've been to New York and here are the values I observed:

- Draconian gun control laws.

Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (O7MnT)
--------------------

Those aren't "values." Those are the perverse results of their schizophrenic voting habits, which are contrary to their values.




NY Sullivan Act has been in place since 1911. That's not schizo. That's wanted.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 21, 2016 12:54 PM (wwx67)

305 Precisely! The exact location of the irony! Instead of telling those midwesterners that New Yorkers share many of the same values as midwesterners, he had to get divisive on everyone's ass. It was the perfect opportunity to point out what Americans have in common from sea to shining sea, but No.

-------------

This must have really struck a nerve in you. I think most people understood the point Cruz was trying to make.

Posted by: SH at April 21, 2016 12:55 PM (gmeXX)

306 These are our countrymen, whether we like it or not. We have to try to save them, convert them, at least get them to this Emmett Rensin's position
Yea. About that.
Posted by: German Jews ca. 1939 at April 21, 2016 12:45 PM (DXFk

Don't be ridiculous. Conservatives aren't an ethnic minority.

I'm not advocating that we accept socialism or bow to leftist demands. I'm saying that rhetorical disarmament will have to be bilateral. The left's programs don't work and even they know it. And the only way to get them to drop their smug is to drop ours too.

Because if we can get them into an argument about ideas.

We will have already won.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 21, 2016 12:55 PM (xuouz)

307 Donald Trump is cool with transgenders in the bathroom with little girls--because he doesn't empathize with people's concern for their daughters rights to some measure of privacy and safety.

Sure Donald has daughters--but he really didn't raise them. He was off pursuing the next younger thing.

Posted by: Ahoy! at April 21, 2016 12:55 PM (mcm0N)

308 Don't call them liberals. That word is derived from 'liberty' and that's the last thing this crowd wants.

They are leftists.


Posted by: Mike at April 21, 2016 12:55 PM (ISxUB)

309 Is Andrew Jackson related to Jessie Jackson and if so we should keep his picture on the $5 Bill.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at April 21, 2016 12:55 PM (KRuzk)

310 A couple of weks ago, read that Prince had AIDS was being successfully treated for years and then went off his meds for some nutty reasoned and that he was dying.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at April 21, 2016 12:55 PM (iQIUe)

311
Prince is dead,, I told him not to go too that Trump rally....

~sniff-sniff~

Posted by: Michelle Fields at April 21, 2016 12:55 PM (HSmrB)

312 Nood.

Posted by: HH at April 21, 2016 12:56 PM (DrCtv)

313 Do they consider them evil? Stupid? Mentally deranged?

At my former place of employment, one of my colleagues had a wife whose parents lived in Kansas. She was predictably liberal in just about every way. In one casual conversation, I asked when she was going to go back and visit her family back in Kansas. Her response was along the lines of, "Well, I'd like to visit more often, but it's just so difficult visiting them now. They just watch Fox News all the time, and it's like they are getting stupider. It's so sad, my dad used to be such a smart man. But now he's just totally brainwashed by Fox News."

So yeah, they really do think conservatives, even their own family, are mentally defective.

Posted by: chemjeff at April 21, 2016 12:56 PM (dpnZC)

314 You're joking, right? They vote opposite their values?
Posted by: Blano at April 21, 2016 12:53 PM (V+rgX)

Stupid fucking cityslicker new yorkers voting against their own self-interest.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 21, 2016 12:56 PM (xuouz)

315 I am sure Bush had something to do with the B-52s bombing the children of color in Iraq.

Oh for God's sake, Mary, Mesopotamia wasn't that bad an album! Granted it was no Cosmic Thing, but still...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 21, 2016 12:56 PM (9krrF)

316
Libertarians are animated by a desire to maximize personal freedom.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at April 21, 2016 12:53 PM (LUG6K)


By which they mean "unlimited access to weed."

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 12:56 PM (TOssO)

317 Precisely! The exact location of the irony!

The irony is that you don't get his point at all.

That list of values isn't limited to NYC, which makes them... not New York values at all.


Conservatives are generally animated by a desire for stability and rule of law, preserving the status quo.

Libertarians are animated by a desire to maximize personal freedom.


Nice caricature of conservatives. You can clean up the straw you scattered all over later.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 21, 2016 12:57 PM (39g3+)

318 "It is central to the liberal self-conception that what separates them
from reactionaries is a desire to help people, a desire to create a
fairer and more just world.
==============================================


Then I'll be overjoyed to see them in church. We're pushing for more foster care families right now, putting on a prom for the retarded, and doing weekly training with single teen moms. We could use the extra hands.

Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:57 PM (dFi94)

319 Prince is dead?!?

He played a sold-out concert in Atlanta and flew home on private jet. Reports said he had a bad case of the flu.

Damn. I saw him in concert in ATL waaaaay back.

*gets off my own lawn*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 21, 2016 12:57 PM (FsuaD)

320 Yes. I think many on the smug list may come from less than stable, loving homes, where structure existed within a framework of unending affection.

Posted by: grammie winger, watching the fig tree at April 21, 2016 12:50 PM (dFi94)


The leftists who come from decent, stable families (which is a lot of them) are the worst. These are just weak, broken personalities that can't handle the guilt mechanism. Their fevered minds generate illusory guilt (much like children who can't watch horror movies without being scared and having nightmares for weeks) that swamps them and they blame their parents for that, hence leading to their hate of their decent, stable parents and everyone else who looks well-adjusted to them.

This is just a normal side-effect of individualistic societies. This is how weak and damaged personalities develop in individualistic societies. It is the bad that you have to accept with the good of such societies and it is usually kept under control by not treating such warped lunatics with any respect. The problem is that people have felt bad for these precious snowflakes and have tried to make them feel better by acting as if their lunatic and retarded ideas could be taken seriously. THAT has been our biggest mistake, and a fatal one, at that.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 21, 2016 12:57 PM (zc3Db)

321 Boy, my typing sucks. Didnt believe the rumors I read but then I heard he was on a plane and it was diverted due to a medical emergency. Sounds like they just sent him home to die.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at April 21, 2016 12:58 PM (iQIUe)

322 To hell with the argument Kari.

I am 100% serious. Because, frankly, most of the topics they want to debate are simply not up for discussion with me.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 21, 2016 12:58 PM (LOqRU)

323 Precisely! The exact location of the irony! Instead of telling those midwesterners that New Yorkers share many of the same values as midwesterners, he had to get divisive on everyone's ass. It was the perfect opportunity to point out what Americans have in common from sea to shining sea, but No.

---

actually, that makes me realize that those were not the kinds of things Cruz meant by NY values.

Likewise when Trump pointed to the 9/11 response as demonstrating NY values, i was left to wonder if he thought that police/fireman from Georgia or Iowa of Oregon would have behaved differently.

If we all share a thing, then it is an American Value. If you want to point out NY values, look for things that are relatively unique to them.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at April 21, 2016 12:58 PM (PNcou)

324 Presdent Obama should put the person of color singer named Prince on the ten dollar bill to honor all persons of color home and abroad......

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at April 21, 2016 12:59 PM (KRuzk)

325 "286 Wow. That vox article gets better and better towards the end.

Posted by: ArthurK"


Yeah. I wonder about the identity of the smug, older liberal that the author describes a conversation with? David Sirota?

Posted by: Benji Carver at April 21, 2016 12:59 PM (OD2ni)

326 Trump also thinks the military should shut up and not advise. They should just follow his orders. Trump also thinks the military should shut up about the things Obama has done to weaken the strength of the military--because--shut up!--that's why. But--he thinks he can buy off the military and vets with this car salesman bullshit--because they are stupid or can be "bought".

Posted by: Ahoy! at April 21, 2016 01:00 PM (mcm0N)

327 Thanks, Ace, for pointing out that Vox article.

Really worth reading.

Let's have a big hand for the guy that reads through Vox, so I don't have to!

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at April 21, 2016 01:00 PM (XdbLA)

328 Those aren't "values." Those are the perverse results of their schizophrenic voting habits, which are contrary to their values.

So, in other words, Hillary Clinton doesn't embody New York values. She just somehow wins because even though she doesn't embody New York values, they vote for her anyway because they dig the pantsuits or something.

Posted by: V the K at April 21, 2016 01:01 PM (O7MnT)

329 When that Prince guy went to the hospital was it a doctor of color or a doctor of no color??? This is important detail and could lead to why he passed away.............

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at April 21, 2016 01:01 PM (KRuzk)

330 I think the author committed the gravest progressive sin of all: admitting that George W Bush was not dumb. Ezra and Matt Yglesias will make him walk the plank for that heresy.

Posted by: Benji Carver at April 21, 2016 01:01 PM (OD2ni)

331 So let me ask you this: since you're a communications professional,
how would you rework the GOP conservative messaging strategery so that
would make sense to voters?



Posted by: OregonMuse


I'll take a shot at this.

Most people have no idea how much a billion is, much less a trillion. (Try it; ask people how many zeroes in each. Prepare to be amazed.)

Consequently, I'd relate the Federal fiscal situation to that of a family that makes $24,000 a year, spends $36,000 a year, and owes $190,000 on its credit card(s).

I'd aim directly at women, as the U.S. is fundamentally a matriarchy. I'd point out that leftist policies will have a direct adverse impact on the lives of their children, who will be poorer and have trouble making a living as a result of those policies, who will be unable to find jobs, or to afford to buy homes, or have families of their own. So ... no grandchildren.

I'd then aim at blacks, and their unemployment (first to try to get them to start thinking, and to give white liberals cover to change sides). What jobs are they hoping to get? Who else is vying for those same jobs? Illegal aliens, that's who. Illegal aliens who don't pay taxes - they work for cash - who aren't subject to paying for workmen's comp, unemployment, etc., and thus undercut black American workers, and will do so every time.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 21, 2016 01:02 PM (oKE6c)

332 Oops.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 21, 2016 01:03 PM (oKE6c)

333 A more in-depth report on Trump and tranny bathrooms linked in my sock.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 01:04 PM (jVvcc)

334 Trump thinks Putin is terrific and his stable mate and anyone who has given a damn about national security and the threat that Russia has posed since Patton wanted to finish them off--and since Reagan's Cold War--can just shut the hell up. Trump --who comes from a family that never has risked or sacrificed much in that area--knows better!

Posted by: Ahoy! at April 21, 2016 01:04 PM (mcm0N)

335 I enjoy the bit where they talk about W and he was basically stupid like a fox.

Many times I would listen to W speak, and when he made some stumble that you knew would drive his critics nuts you could almost feel him want to wink into the camera like "get em again"

Posted by: the real ch3 at April 21, 2016 01:05 PM (wHYXk)

336 "TMZ-Prince dead"

Drudge too. Holy crap.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 21, 2016 01:06 PM (LA7Cm)

337 To bad about Prince. He turned out to be the less weird one after all.

Posted by: iblis at April 21, 2016 01:06 PM (25ZT+)

338 FYI, there's a new thread to spread your TDS on, Ahoy! You'll have more fun there than here. I promise.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 01:06 PM (jVvcc)

339 Lol, Jay with the stick save.

Posted by: Blano at April 21, 2016 01:07 PM (5qEZd)

340
So let me ask you this: since you're a communications professional, how would you rework the GOP conservative messaging strategery so that would make sense to voters?

Posted by: OregonMuse
-----------------------

I've typed a few essays and deleted them. Will probably be willowed by art, but I'll post something sometime.

Posted by: iforgot at April 21, 2016 01:07 PM (pC96u)

341 that whole article also reminds me of one of my favorite lines form The Big Lebowski.

"You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole"

Posted by: the real ch3 at April 21, 2016 01:08 PM (wHYXk)

342 RE: Trumps comment.
He was asked at the end of an interview if he supported the NC transgender bathroom law. And as usual, he answered without having much knowledge of the law, but gave an opinion.

He said that there wasn't really any problem with transgenders using the bathroom of choice before the law was enacted, but now that the law was passed, NC is losing business, is losing concerts, etc. He doesn't see where it is a big deal.

Then he was asked if he had any transgender working for him . He said he didn't know, but he imagined so.

He was asked if requiring transgender bathroom construction was a good solution and he said, no, that would be a ridiculous cost to businesses.

So first, Trump reveals that he doesn't understand why the law was passed. Two, he assumes, like most uniformed people, that like gays, Transgenders make up a large percentage of the population.

This entire issue is simply another hammer to beat conservatives with. The left and it's SJW aren't really interested in making sure Caitlyn Jenner can go into a women's restroom without management insisting they leave.
It's simply another issue to use to demonstrate how evil, uncaring, nasty, and backward conservatives and religious individuals are. Just like all their issues.
They really DON"T care. What is important is to be able to have as many issues to constantly beat us with because we make moral judgements and insist on behavior that has standards that don't fluctuate from day to day.

Posted by: Jen the original at April 21, 2016 01:09 PM (1rAS0)

343 Consequently, I'd relate the Federal fiscal situation to that of a
family that makes $24,000 a year, spends $36,000 a year, and owes
$190,000 on its credit card(s).

So I would say....raise the minimum wage. And tax the rich. And print more money. And feel the Bern!

Posted by: The Free Shit Army at April 21, 2016 01:09 PM (8WyYX)

344 #19 The last couple months on Fix lend the Profs a certain credence for that one.

Posted by: pardon my shield at April 21, 2016 01:12 PM (rlO7l)

345
It's a terrible thing on both sides to simply assume the other side is vile and evil

The
two sides aren't equivalent or symmetrical. The left, if successful,
wants to control your life. The right largely wants to be left alone.


Posted by: pep at April 21, 2016 12:08 PM (3e8zv)

This.

Posted by: redbanzai at April 21, 2016 01:14 PM (3JA/M)

346 Wouldn't that mean that Trump's answer (that I agree was based on ignorance of what the law was written to accomplish and the situation's background) has taken away a stick with which to beat him and the GOP during the election then, Jen, even if it was inadvertent?

Posted by: andycanuck at April 21, 2016 01:14 PM (jVvcc)

347 They should make a new 1999 dollar bill and put Prince on it.

You might be able to buy some milk with the way the FED is pumping out cash these days.

Posted by: Jacob's Step Stool at April 21, 2016 01:21 PM (sqs5K)

348 This is a great article.

I made a tinyurl.com/voxsmug

Posted by: scottst at April 21, 2016 01:28 PM (v+8+I)

349
The author had a temporary attack of insight.
He should lie down until it passes.

Either that, or he was drinking too much.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 21, 2016 12:39 PM (TOssO)

I was once a liberal. I'll 'fess up - this is how stupid I was: I voted for Carter in 80 and Mondale in 84 and once drunkenly threw darts at a picture of Reagan. I ranted about Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority.

It's shameful to admit that, but that shows you how hopelessly lib I once was. And I was just as sure that I was Until certain events and people made me start to question my own beliefs. (Certain events included the Berlin Wall coming down and noticing that all those social programs didn't seem to be helping the blacks of DC too much.)

I was also fortunate enough to have met conservatives who treated me like an intelligent person who could be reasoned with, not an evil witch who wanted America to be destroyed. (And in fairness, I treated them the same - unlike a lot of present day SJW's I didn't shout them down or call them stupid.) And those people made me think some more.

But it was a loooong process. And it was painful. It's hard to admit you've been wrong. It's hard to question your beliefs.

So I can't join in with those who are saying this author is full of b.s. just because he didn't disown liberalism at the end of the article. That's not how it works. It took me 4 years of thinking things out and trying to understand the other side (and getting increasingly disgusted with the libs on my own side) before I could admit to myself that I was no longer liberal.

Expecting people to have a St. Paul conversion experience just because the rightness of conservativism is obvious to you is unrealistic. To me, it's a great sign that someone on the left is actually questioning the left. That's the last thing the left wants their followers to do.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at April 21, 2016 01:28 PM (u0lmX)

350 #144 We didn't get anywhere. Trump is Obama, with worse impulse control.

Posted by: pardon my shield at April 21, 2016 01:28 PM (rlO7l)

351 Hicksplaining

Posted by: Shiggz at April 21, 2016 01:29 PM (G7wcY)

352 "I'm not saying they cannot change, I'm saying they will not as a result of our outreach and arguments. "

That'd be the "you can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themsel- damn, liberals are feckin' tenaciously stoopit" theorem in a nutshell.

Posted by: Cap City Daydrunk at April 21, 2016 01:31 PM (O50yS)

353 Ezra Klein got sick of being attacked from the left

Posted by: bjk at April 21, 2016 01:37 PM (x2rNW)

354 I am suggesting that in the case of a Kim Davis, liberalism resist the impulse to go beyond the necessary legal fight and explicitly delight in punishing an old foe.

Or as Glenn Reynolds has been calling it, "patrolling the battlefield and killing the survivors".

Posted by: Ian S. at April 21, 2016 01:39 PM (KUTP5)

355 Dialog. He wants dialog from the Left to make amends to working class America.

Too late.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at April 21, 2016 01:46 PM (u82oZ)

356 > Real self-awareness from a Vox editor.

The singularity has arrived.

Posted by: Original Roy at April 21, 2016 01:47 PM (EPe+N)

357 The more layers of obfuscation between someone and the negative and positive results of their own decisions the better their judgment will consistently be. And visa verce.

This ous the center looking of leftist politics and why it poisons people's and cultures from no questions she'd welfare to no questions allowed social policy.

Posted by: Shiggz at April 21, 2016 01:49 PM (G7wcY)

358 Crrctn

The less layers of obfuscation between someone and the negative and positive results of their own decisions the better their judgment will consistently be. And visa verce.

Posted by: Shiggz at April 21, 2016 01:51 PM (G7wcY)

359 You know, if I thought any of the aforementioned smug usual suspects would actually listen to Mr. Rensin, I'd be concerned--though more than a tad ambivalent as liberalism's epic obnoxiousness would presumably at least be dialed down to a dull roar.

Posted by: M. Scott Eiland at April 21, 2016 02:38 PM (Q77Pd)

360 If the trouble with conservatives was ignorance, then the liberal impulse was to correct it. When such corrections failed, disdain followed after it....

And from there it's a small step to declaring their refusal to turn liberal is a mental illness, that they're a danger to society, and they need to be placed in a treatment center against their will.

Posted by: Socratease at April 21, 2016 03:19 PM (FqHs5)

361
Progressivism is nothing more than a massive pyramidpile of lemmings struggling to climb over each other to the top each trying to pull the other down so that they may ascend.
This is just vox vying toportray themselves assmarter and more enlightened than any other progressive.
In shortprogressivism a version of hell.

Posted by: simplemind at April 21, 2016 04:02 PM (JTwsP)

362 I checked out another article written by that guy, Emmett Rensin. He sat down with a self-proclaimed Men's Rights Activist at a bar in Chicago, and actually gave him a fair shake. Also worth a read.

Posted by: s at April 21, 2016 04:46 PM (HCXGq)

363 What the heck is "Vox"? Do they even have any readers?

Posted by: Mrclark at April 21, 2016 06:04 PM (7YnaR)

364 What. In. The. Hell. Did. I. Just. Read? Holy Crap, indeed.

Posted by: Beanerschnitzel at April 21, 2016 08:16 PM (Xg5LV)

365 Think Ace had any self awareness at all about HIS smugness re: trump supporters?

Posted by: Tradd at April 21, 2016 09:19 PM (EQcBC)

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