Saturday Politics Thread: Carly Fiorina [Y-not]

Good morning, morons and 'ettes. Welcome to your regular Saturday Morning Politics thread!

Next Thursday Republicans will hold the first of their primary debates:

The Aug. 6 debate is hosted by Fox News, in conjunction with Facebook and the Ohio Republican Party.

The 9 p.m. ET stage will be open to the top 10 candidates in recent national polls. With 17 total candidates now in the race -- former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore was the latest, announcing his bid Thursday -- not everyone will make the cut.

Those who don't can qualify for an earlier debate, at 5 p.m. Fox News has eased the criteria for that debate, and candidates will no longer have to reach at least 1 percent in the polls to make the stage, though there are other criteria.

In addition, several of the GOP hopefuls, including Perry, Fiorina, and Santorum, have said they will stop by a debate-watching event being hosted by the American Conservative Union. (Follow this link to see the details of all eleven GOP debates planned thus far.)

The New York Times has been maintaining a list of all of the announced candidates, both Republican and Democrat, here.

I thought this week we could do a short "backgrounder" on Carly Fiorina. She was not on our radar last Fall when we reviewed 21 prospective GOP candidates. (I've been slammed in Real Life, so I apologize in advance for not doing a more thorough job on Fiorina's backgrounder.)

Here's a bit about Ms. Fiorina from her campaign website:

When Carly was recruited to Hewlett Packard, she became the first woman to lead a Fortune 50 business, growing it to become the 11th largest company in the US. In her six years as Chairman and CEO of HP, she would double its revenues to $90 billion; more than quadruple its growth to 9%; triple the rate of innovation to 11 patents a day; achieve market leadership in every market and product category and quadruple cash-flow.

She currently serves as the Chairman of the American Conservative Union Foundation, which annually hosts CPAC (the largest annual gathering of conservatives); the Chairman of Good360, the world's largest product philanthropy organization; and the Chairman of Opportunity International, the largest non profit micro-finance lender in the world giving out $6 billion at an average of $150 per loan lifting millions out of poverty around the world.

As I think most of you know, Fiorina's tenure as CEO of HP was controversial. Here's a Business Insider article that describes it as "terrible." Although I don't find her ouster from HP as in any way disqualifying (good people get fired all the time), the allegation that she laid off thousands of domestic employees and required them to train their off-shore replacements bothers me.

Read more about Carly Fiorina at her Wiki page. Although Ms. Fiorina has some impressive academic credentials, one thing you might not know is that she started out her career as a secretary at an insurance firm. Her current net worth is $59 million. (For comparison, Mitt Romney's net worth is reportedly $250 million.)

Ms. Fiorina has spent her career in the private sector which makes assessing her political positions and talent more difficult to assess. Her sole foray into politics (as a candidate) was a failed run for the U.S. Senate against incumbent Barbara Boxer in 2010. She also supported John McCain during his 2008 presidential run. (I'm not sure I'd hold that against her.)

Ballotpedia provides this summary of her political positions (I'd apply a grain of salt to these characterizations):

FiorinaIssues.jpg

(If you'd like to see what specific statements were used to arrive at these positions, follow this link.)

Ms. Fiorina announced her presidential run back in May. This is what the NYT had to say about her prospects at the time. I think her chances have improved since then because of the discipline she's shown during her campaign, her skill with the media, and the disgust many primary voters feel about politics as usual.

She has, to my knowledge, consistently used her candidacy to attack Hillary Clinton, specifically, and Democrat policies more generally. Here are links to a few of her speeches and interviews:

Speaking at the Reagan Library last week "she focused exclusively on foreign policy issues. She repeatedly assailed the "political class" for their incompetence and pusillanimity -- and called out the spinelessness of the current administration for bargaining with our enemies and alienating our friends. She also offered warnings for America and optimism." Follow this link to watch her delivery.

On a related note, The Daily Caller reports:

Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina says the Benghazi "punch" could have defeated President Obama in 2012, but it "didn't get thrown."

"We thought in 2012 that Benghazi was Obama's Achilles' heel," the former Hewlett-Packard CEO said in a Thursday call with supporters. "But the punch didn't get thrown. We can't count on the media to do this... And so the only way to make sure these questions are asked and answered is to have a nominee who will demand an answer."

Fiorina insisted she wouldn't shy away from bringing up damaging issues, like the 2012 Benghazi terrorist attacks, while debating Hillary Clinton.

(OK, I suppose that could be characterized as a mild swipe at our last nominee.)

In addition to speeches and conference calls, Ms. Fiorina recently sat down for an interview with Elle magazine. I think it's worth a read to see how she navigates through a much softer set of "touchy feely" questions. Here's an excerpt:

It's been a tragic and complicated year for race relations in America. As president, how would you strive to bridge those really systemic divides?

You know, I think honestly Democrats have used identity politics to win elections -- not all Democrats, but too many. And what I mean by that is they divide Americans into groups, and they say, "You're a woman. You care about this issue. You're an African American. You care about that issue. You're Hispanic. You care about some other issue."

I think we need to speak to all Americans about all the issues they care about. I got asked recently on The View why I was a conservative. And I said, "Because I know no one of us is any better than any other one of us. Every one of us has God-given gifts. Every one of us can live lives with dignity and purpose and meaning." I believe that. For example, African Americans are demonstrably worse off in the last six years. African American women are demonstrably worse off. I think we need to celebrate the diversity of this nation, but we also need to acknowledge that everyone -- regardless of what they look like -- is an American. Everyone --regardless of what they look like -- is equal. Everyone -- regardless of what they look like -- has potential that we need to tap if we are going to be the greatest nation we can be. And so that's how I want to talk to the American people. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, African American or Hispanic, you care about whether or not you have a good job. You care about whether or not you're earning enough to make a good living. You care about whether your government is responsive. You care about the quality of your healthcare. You care about national security.

Being a data-oriented person, my tastes in candidates tend to run toward ones that have a fairly lengthy record of achievements and public statements that I can evaluate. I think much of Fiorina's -- or any "outsider's" -- effectiveness derives from the fact that they have no records to defend. Hence, candidates like Fiorina and Trump can spend much more time focusing on attacks of the status quo. Although this is appealing, it does little to tell me how she (or he) would govern.

That said, I am impressed by how Carly Fiorina has conducted herself thus far and I look forward to her participation in the debates, whether it be on the "first tier" debate stage or the "second tier" one. If I were to go for an outsider candidate, Fiorina would be my choice.

How about you?

Do you plan on watching the debates this week?

____________________________________

We've been reviewing candidates and issues for almost a year! The first thread in this series was August 30th of last year. Phew!

For your reference, the backgrounders on the other candidates:

Walker, Jindal, Perry here
Kasich, Haley, Martinez here
Rubio, Paul, Cruz here
Christie, Bush, Huntsman here
Gowdy, Carson, Sessions, Lee here
Romney, Ryan, Huckabee, Palin here
Mike Pence here

Last March we had a round up thread of sorts in which many of the issues threads were linked (and candidates' "scores" discussed).

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:30 AM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Wont vote for her. She stiffed her campaign employees who had to wait a year for her to pay them. Sure the campaign coffers may have been empty but the woman is reported to be worth over 125 million. Dipping into her own bank acct to pay them would not have bankrupted her.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at August 01, 2015 09:33 AM (iQIUe)

2 Not watching the debates. Too soon. Too many contenders, most of whom are unelectable.

I'll wait for the pundits to give me their expert opinion.

Posted by: Pyro Maniac at August 01, 2015 09:34 AM (DaA8g)

3 Wont vote for her. She stiffed her campaign employees who had to wait a year for her to pay them.
---

So is this from the Senate run, I assume?

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:34 AM (RWGcK)

4 >> Not watching the debates. Too soon. Too many contenders,

Some folks are saying the "second tier" candidates may benefit from being on stage with less people. If that debate includes Fiorina, Perry, and Jindal, I may watch it.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:36 AM (RWGcK)

5 Hi Y-not.

As always, thank you.


Don't know if you saw, or if it even has any import, but another poll.

http://wp.me/s3vMzs-polliowa

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at August 01, 2015 09:36 AM (VPLuQ)

6 1 Well she is a ficon.

**rimshot**

Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 01, 2015 09:37 AM (u82oZ)

7 Thanks, ViA. Yeah, I'd seen that there were more polls coming out showing Trump on top.

I've been following another polling place on Twitter and saw several posted about head to head match ups with Hillary... Lemme dig up those numbers and post them. Be back in a sec.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:39 AM (RWGcK)

8 "Be back in a sec."
I didn't want you to drop everything, and spend time on it.
It's Saturday.


Just tossed it there for your casual perusal as time permits.

It may be absolutely nothing.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at August 01, 2015 09:42 AM (VPLuQ)

9 Oddly enough, Jumanji is on cable right now.

As soon as I read the words "Republicans will hold the first of their primary debates," the scene with the monkeys in the kitchen came on.
That's how I picture the GOP field right now. A bunch of fucking monkeys throwing shit around the kitchen, tearing everything up and generally screwing up.

Posted by: Chi at August 01, 2015 09:42 AM (VGGOE)

10 McClatchy-Marist poll results:
http://j.mp/1cvwziX

Hill 54% vs Trump 38%

Rubio and Rand were w/in 5% of Hillary

Walker and Perry were w/in 7% of Hillary

Jeb was w/in 6% of Hillary

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:42 AM (RWGcK)

11 What's she running for? Congress? A State Senate job?

That would be good. Gain some experience inside government. People always talk about how nice it is for candidates to have business experience. Well, government experience comes in handy too.

President? She's running for President??

Well that just seems silly.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 09:42 AM (Dj0WE)

12 Very impressed by Fiorina this time around. The CA government employee unions ran a whisper campaign against her in 2010 that she left the race for a few days for plastic surgery.

Breast cancer treatment actually, but they will say or do anything to maintain that taxpayer teat access.

Posted by: Motionview at August 01, 2015 09:44 AM (hqjPT)

13 Ahoy.....

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 09:44 AM (7/znG)

14 We won't learn anything about the candidates from their debate performance or their campaign, especially in terms of how they would 'govern' as president.

There are too many competing forces (opposing political party, media, militant activists, and congress with its twenty thousand and one egos driven by ambition, and the ever dreaded 'events, dear boy') to say how a president will react in any given scenario. Nor can we predict how well a policy will work after twenty five or fifty years.

The best we can hope for is a really bad president will be out of power after eight or ten years, maybe, and we can try somebody else.

Posted by: Pyro Maniac at August 01, 2015 09:44 AM (DaA8g)

15 Fiorinia is very well-versed in the issues and he has strong opinions and plans. I'd like to see her in the debates just as a foil the mostly cautious, wishy-washy candidates.
Could see her as a VP pick or in the cabinet should hell freeze over and the GOP win.

Just look at her on the Planned Parenthood scandal - she's breathing fire!!
(starts ~4 min mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRN38z5Hjc

Posted by: Lizzy at August 01, 2015 09:45 AM (NOIQH)

16 I just looked at Jeb's Ballotpedia rating. Noticed him well within the conservative area so I calmly exited the website, scrubbed my hard drive of any history to do with that website and had a hearty laugh.

Posted by: Drider at August 01, 2015 09:46 AM (6Xbsz)

17 Sigh.

Posted by: Ready For Anybody!!11!! at August 01, 2015 09:46 AM (Dwehj)

18 President? She's running for President??

Well that just seems silly.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 09:42 AM

--

I'm in general agreement with you about candidates like Fiorina, Trump, and Carson. But I would say that Fiorina, in particular, has been doing a great job in the media maintaining a very Presidential tone while throwing a lot of shots at the Democrats. So I guess early in the primary, I see her candidacy as additive. She seems to be the best-prepared out of the three "outsiders."

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:46 AM (RWGcK)

19 I like Carly's fire but I don't know that I like her management style or decision making.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 09:46 AM (7/znG)

20 the allegation that she laid off thousands of domestic employees and required them to train their off-shore replacements

To be fair, all of Silicon Valley was like that back then.

Posted by: t-bird at August 01, 2015 09:47 AM (FcR7P)

21 Y-not absolutely nails my reaction to Fiorina is this very well written post, and I especially agree with her ending.

Fiorina (regardless of her scant political resume qualifications) is schooling the GOP front-runners in media relations. She is also the single most effective voice against the Democrats right now. For those reasons alone she should get lots more attention than she does.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 09:47 AM (TxJGV)

22 Can we talk about the real issues?

Posted by: Zombie Cecil at August 01, 2015 09:48 AM (Dwehj)

23 >>To be fair, all of Silicon Valley was like that back then.

Yeah, that thought occurred to me too.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:48 AM (RWGcK)

24 Speaking of off-shoring and H1Bs, have any of you been able to tell if Walker has kept up with the idea of pegging LEGAL immigration to unemployment numbers? I've been really busy at home these past couple of weeks, plus I now have a summer cold, so it's been harder to track what all 17 !!! candidates are saying.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:50 AM (RWGcK)

25 The further into the season we get, the more impressed I am by Fiorina and that's no small thing because I didn't care for her at all during her senate run.

She's a bit of an attack dog, but does it in a rather refined way. While not brash, she is tough, and she arrives prepared. I've yet to see her become flustered in an interview or flounder about searching for an answer.

I'd love to see her in the first round of the debates.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at August 01, 2015 09:50 AM (PMlgt)

26 I'm in general agreement with you about candidates like Fiorina, Trump, and Carson. But I would say that Fiorina, in particular, has been doing a great job in the media maintaining a very Presidential tone while throwing a lot of shots at the Democrats. So I guess early in the primary, I see her candidacy as additive. She seems to be the best-prepared out of the three "outsiders."
Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:46 AM (RWGcK)


I always start with the pretty firm assumption that these people are certain they will not be elected President (if they are NOT certain, it means they're insane). So the next question is: what's the point?


Does she have one? I don't know. Maybe she does.


Last time around we had Herb Cain. Is she the white, female Herb Cain, with less business success, and hopefully fewer bimbo eruptions?


I still don't see the point of HIS run, so.....

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 09:50 AM (Dj0WE)

27 Not "first round" but top tier round of the debates

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at August 01, 2015 09:51 AM (PMlgt)

28 She is a great candidate in terms of ability to speak, handling interviews, personal calm and charisma, and skill at articulating difficult concepts in understandable terms. She's got an impressive resume of actual accomplishments - like all of us sometimes some disappointments as well - and she's a very useful foil to the grrl power Hillary voter mentality.

Shes also been running her campaign exactly how I think all of the candidates should be: show how you're better and attack the real enemy, rather than trying to show the other guys are worse. The GOP are a pack of flat out idiots for not pushing her harder as a candidate.

However, she's basically Jed Bush in a skirt. She's very "moderate" on most issues, and is more a Chamber of Commerce/Big Business Republican than a conservative.

If this were past America, she would be great for the economy, and she could hardly be worse than president Obama with foreign policy. But she'd be terrible on too many key issues, and have no problem with big spending as long as it didn't interfere with business.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 09:52 AM (39g3+)

29 the allegation that she laid off thousands of domestic employees and required them to train their off-shore replacements

---

To be fair, all of Silicon Valley was like that back then.
Posted by: t-bird at August 01, 2015 09:47 AM (FcR7P)


Which is almost like saying you knew somebody from Sodom who was buggering his neighbor's children, but to be fair, everyone in town was like that back then.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 09:54 AM (Dj0WE)

30 >>So the next question is: what's the point?

My initial reaction to her candidacy was very negative. I saw her as the token female and as a likely stalking horse for one of the Chamber of Commerce pick candidates -- Jeb? Rubio? I don't know.

But as the months have passed, I'm starting to think she is in it for her own reasons. Maybe just to run for VP or maybe to raise issues or maybe to be the attack dog against Hillary.

I did not know she was involved with the American Conservative Union (Foundation), for example. So maybe she really has a core conservative ideology.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:54 AM (RWGcK)

31 She seems to be the best-prepared out of the three "outsiders."

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:46 AM


My past experience with Big-Time Business Executive-types tells me most, if not all, can present themselves the way Fiorina does. Don't know if they have consultants especially for that (I suspect they do) but it's not an uncommon trait in executive suites.

That applies to pathetically awful execs as well as talented, savvy ones. It's like learning a language phonetically -- you don't necessarily have to understand it to sound good speaking it.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 09:55 AM (rCmeG)

32 I think everyone who runs for president thinks they have a shot and wants to be president. It takes tremendous ego to be at that level of politics, a huge amount of personal certainty. These guys are not normal human beings. You can't put yourself in their place and think 'what would I do here?' You don't have that kind of unassailable massive personal investment.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 09:56 AM (39g3+)

33 >>So the next question is: what's the point?
Does she have one?


She is everything Hillary isn't, and she's not afraid to point that out again and again.

At this early stage I welcome her voice in the mix.
With her moxie, grasp of the issues, willingness to go into the details and take a firm stance, and media savvy she really highlights ALL of Hillary's negatives. That's probably why the MSM is not comparing them at all.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 01, 2015 09:57 AM (NOIQH)

34 I want a candidate that will tell me things that I want to hear as they look me in the eyes, secretly thinking thoughts of nothing but disdain for me as they hope beyond hope that they con enough of us to get elected before doing the opposite of what they said to us.

You know, like every other professional politician in the country.

Posted by: Drider at August 01, 2015 09:58 AM (6Xbsz)

35 She may well be another Chamber of Commerce candidate, that wouldn't surprise me given her history, but she has been speaking out strongly on the broken border problem, and she laughed out loud in one interview when asked about AGW, so I think she does have some differences with Jeb.

But your essential point is right on, I think: She is indeed running the best campaign so far, and she is absolutely focused on relentlessly attacking generic Democrat positions, and Hillary's qualifications. I am very impressed, and I never imagined she would be this good.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 09:58 AM (TxJGV)

36 >>Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 09:55 AM

Sure, that does seem to be a skill set that most have. I wouldn't credit Trump with having it.

I have been pleased that she's been so hard-nosed on the Planned Parenthood stuff. That's showing me something that a jerk like Jeb Bush isn't showing me.

To be clear, she is NOT in my first tier of candidates for the primary, but I have gotten to the point where I *would* consider voting for her over some of the others in the primary. And in the general -- well, I would vote for her over Hillary.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 09:58 AM (RWGcK)

37 CF also ran for governor of California. Can't remember details, but she has shown consistent interested in politics. Unfortunately, I was a Hewlett Packard "traditionalist" and when "my printer" became what I considered trash in comparison to competitors' printers, she was cooked in my book -- also buying Compact? HP buying Compact WTF? INO, I am . I want real excellence in a CEO. I want her nowhere near the Pres (e.g., VP), but I like her presence in the campaign. Anyone, anyone at all, of some accomplishment who can tell it like it is and not back away. Especially someone outside of the "political class" -- who does that leave? I am sick of the whole lot of them, which probably means that I am sick of crony corporations. That includes the owners of every used-to-be media organization. "The workers" only do their owners' bidding; good-by investigative journalism. Thanks to the new, enterprising, fourth estate, investigators -- bloggers. Thanks Y-not.

Posted by: pyromancer76 at August 01, 2015 09:58 AM (zvcr8)

38 There seem to be at least two kinds of candidates.

1. Look at my record, see how I have governed/voted/etc as my position

2. These are my ideas, this is how I arrive at these ideas. This is my philosophy.



#1 is what we have been sort of conditioned to vote for. Let's be practical and judge you on how you've done as governor of such-and -such state. I think this can be a mistake, because you don't always see all the horse-trading that goes on to get to a political conclusion.

We have to think more about #2, and understand how a candidate thinks. We have to expect MORE of how they understand politics and for them to explain their own analysis.

There are too many Republicans in government that want to go along to get along, just to "Get something done", which is a big mistake. But every politician in government has probably done this at some time. Reagan sure did it in the great Amnesty debacle of 1986. That doesn't mean his political philosophy was flawed, but he was conned and lied to, and did this to "get something done", as his own party urged.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 09:59 AM (+1T7c)

39 My past experience with Big-Time Business Executive-types tells me most, if not all, can present themselves the way Fiorina does. Don't know if they have consultants especially for that (I suspect they do) but it's not an uncommon trait in executive suites.

That applies to pathetically awful execs as well as talented, savvy ones. It's like learning a language phonetically -- you don't necessarily have to understand it to sound good speaking it.

***

They interview well which, BTW, I've always thought is a lousy excuse to hire someone. Still, I think she deserves a shot against the big boys.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at August 01, 2015 09:59 AM (PMlgt)

40 Not "first round" but top tier round of the debates

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at August 01, 2015 09:51 AM


And way the hell too early. Some of these bozos will be passing their resumes out to consultants and think tanks by the time the convention rolls around. Others will be trying to get teevee talking-head gigs. Some may be in rehab by then, for all I know.

Save the debates for a time when the field is winnowed a bit, and the wannabes and nevergonnahappens get discouraged. To have a shitload of loons yammering at liberal newsidiots for 90 minutes will make the Republican party as a whole look even stupider than it already does.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 09:59 AM (rCmeG)

41 sorry- my #35 was in response to Christopher Taylor in #28.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 09:59 AM (TxJGV)

42 I've never seen the problems people claim with HP printers. We've always used them and they work great. Doesn't mean they can't have problems, I might be getting lucky but I wonder sometimes if people don't pile on to be part of the crowd sometimes. Yeah, yeah it sucks I agree!!

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:00 AM (39g3+)

43 As to why all these candidates are running for an office they can't win, I would say that they do think they have as much chance of winning as any of the other candidates if they can just catch fire (no pun intended) with the public. Some issue, some policy, some thing that wins them support from the public.

Then you start to see the horse trading going on between candidates. A winning conservative picks a moderate/liberal VP (Reagan/Bush) to 'balance' the ticket and gain support from the other factions in the party.

The Democrats seem to pick a winning candidate that is paired up with a party apparatchik for VP. (Kennedy/LBJ broadly speaking).

So all these candidates for president are also auditioning for possible VP or cabinet slots; To some extent, depending on how well they get along with the other candidates, which is why these personal attacks one on the other is so destructive.

Posted by: Pyro Maniac at August 01, 2015 10:00 AM (DaA8g)

44 Speaking of candidates dropping out, Lindsey Graham has said that if he doesn't show well in NH (or IA? I forget which) he will drop out before South Carolina. He says he is not in it to help Jeb Bush win SC.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:01 AM (RWGcK)

45 Lindsay Graham really said he's not in it to help Jeb? Wow, there goes my assumption.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:03 AM (TxJGV)

46 Politics isn't fair. The Dems and the media will use her HP tenure against her, and it will hurt her. I think Walker, and even Cruz, is a much more realistic candidate than she is.

Posted by: East Bay KG at August 01, 2015 10:03 AM (YUrE9)

47 Ugh, Graham!
What's the point of him running?
There's nothing fresh or exciting about that guy.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 01, 2015 10:04 AM (NOIQH)

48 He says he is not in it to help Jeb Bush win SC.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:01 AM


Does John McCain have a Secret Plan to run again?

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 10:04 AM (rCmeG)

49 "CF also ran for governor of California. "


She did? I remember a Senate run but not governor.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:04 AM (7/znG)

50 She is everything Hillary isn't, and she's not afraid to point that out again and again.

At this early stage I welcome her voice in the mix.
With her moxie, grasp of the issues, willingness to go into the details and take a firm stance, and media savvy she really highlights ALL of Hillary's negatives. That's probably why the MSM is not comparing them at all.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 01, 2015 09:57 AM (NOIQH)


There are lots of reasons to want someone like her to be your anti-Hillery. First, you think Hillery is going to be nominated by the Dems. I don't believe that. Second, you don't want your REAL candidates to sully themselves by going negative. Well, if your REAL candidates are not far enough different from Hillery, I'd rather not hear the fake ones trying to pretend it matters.


In the end, I think it's awfully condescending for the Party to hire a female to do the attack-on-Hillery stuff. They don't want the men doing it? Great. You've already lost, if you've fully bought into that identity politics tripe.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 10:05 AM (Dj0WE)

51 I've never seen the problems people claim with HP printers. We've always used them and they work great. Doesn't mean they can't have problems, I might be getting lucky but I wonder sometimes if people don't pile on to be part of the crowd sometimes. Yeah, yeah it sucks I agree!!

****

I've never owned anything but HP printers and all have been great devices. All, that is, until my most recent purchase. It as been crap almost since the moment I hooked it up.

It's a wireless printer and sometimes I can print something and it prints weeks later. Literally, weeks later.

It's happened twice. I'll be sitting in my living room and here it start up. When I check it out it's printing a job that I had long since forgotten about.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at August 01, 2015 10:05 AM (PMlgt)

52 I think after 2008 when Barack Obama - radical extremist no-skill incompetent nobody suddenly became the front runner proved to people that anyone can make it, if they can just catch on. Last presidential election Romney was pretty consistently in the lead, but candidate after candidate got popular and gook hold for a while. All someone like Fiorino or Jindal needs is to get that edge and keep it, and that's why they are out there.

Its still really early. I agree with MrScribbler: its so early having a debate now is ridiculous. Give it time and the fringe guys, the hangers on, and the ones in it for publicity and ego will begin to drop off. Have a debate when they are gone. Guys like Santorum and Huckabee and Graham who have zero shot.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:05 AM (39g3+)

53 @9 That's how I picture the GOP field right now. A bunch of fucking monkeys throwing shit around the kitchen, tearing everything up and generally screwing up.

I described them to a friend as a troupe of disabled clowns juggling kittens.

Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 10:07 AM (ueOgE)

54 She's got a great story, no doubt about it.

That's some drive to succeed that she has and it's an inspiration to all of us (or should be).

I don't really trust her though. I don't hate her and I've heard really good things about how she answers questions posed by the media. But for me she's too much of a Davos type.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 01, 2015 10:07 AM (oFCZn)

55 Lindsey is most assuredly running for a VP slot. Even he can't believe he has a snowball's shot at the presidency.

Self-serving shit.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at August 01, 2015 10:07 AM (PMlgt)

56 That Graham statement was via Laura Ingraham's twitter feed, fwi:

twitter.com/IngrahamAngle/status/626781371302674432

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:07 AM (RWGcK)

57 I've owned a lot of HP printers but had a bad wireless purchase sour me about two years ago. Now we use a wireless Canon printer/scanner that has performed flawlessly.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:08 AM (TxJGV)

58 "Lindsey Graham has said that if he doesn't show well in NH (or IA? I forget which) he will drop out before South Carolina. "


Then he should be done fairly quick. Because he will not show well at all.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:09 AM (7/znG)

59 I think after 2008 when Barack Obama - radical extremist no-skill incompetent nobody suddenly became the front runner proved to people that anyone can make it, if they can just catch on.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:05 AM (39g3+)

Unfortunately for the people who think this, Obama was a "nobody" being pushed by a fairly powerful coalition of people. He didn't do that on his own, at all.

Posted by: East Bay KG at August 01, 2015 10:09 AM (YUrE9)

60 I've grown to like Fiorina quite a bit.

She's run a smart campaign, is excellent in interviews and comes across as highly intelligent, and

she's the only candidate consistently taking it to the Democrats and Hillary! (aside from Trump and Cruz) and not acting like a little passive-egressive bitch toward their fellow Republicans.

We really don't need a repeat of Romney burning everybody else to the ground then wriggling around like a worm on a hot sidewalk against their Democrat opponent.

With her hard logic and forthright speaking on the topics, she reminds me a bit of Margaret Thatcher.

Which also, me likey.

Anyone who thinks you get to the top of a corporation from a secretarial position without knowing how to play politics is deluding themselves-

she would do just fine in that regard.

Though I see her as someone who could easily be VP, the path to the Prez nomination would require extraordinary debate performance.

Is she up to it? Who knows?

If I were her and could make it to the top ten forum, I'd be the one who went straight at Jeb! when he starts his "Romneyesque burn everyone else to the ground nonsense"-

a straight-froward, logical but humorous dismantling of Butter Boy would certainly endear her to the base.


In any event, I'd have no problem voting for her as Prez.

If the nom came down to Fiorina, Walker, and Cruz and possibly Perry (tho he's been incredibly tone-deaf politically lately), I'd be a happy puppy.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 01, 2015 10:09 AM (KUa85)

61 >>In the end, I think it's awfully condescending for the Party to hire a female to do the attack-on-Hillery stuff.

She's not my pick, this is just why I like her in the mix right now. I think the GOP would just prefer she disappear; she's not an insider and they don't have the stomach to attack Hillary, period. Whatever she's doing seems to be her own idea, not anyone else's. I don't see what's so condescending about enjoying the (self-appointed) role she's playing in the race.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 01, 2015 10:09 AM (NOIQH)

62 I don't see Fiorina's Benghazi statement so much as a swipe at Romney as a statement about a big lost opportunity whose timing could not be better (2 months before the elections! ) had we had a candidate and party with gonads.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 01, 2015 10:10 AM (d4mMH)

63 The Dems and the media will use her HP tenure
against her, and it will hurt her. I think Walker, and even Cruz, is a
much more realistic candidate than she is.

Posted by: East Bay KG at August 01, 2015 10:03 AM


Hell, I hold her HP tenure against her, and I couldn't tell you if I've ever owned an HP product. (Now if Microsoft Boy was running for office, I'd be a protester at every one of his campaign events.)

But when people get started on this Larry Kudlow-style "Carly saved HP!!11!! She really pepped up the bottom line!!11!!" crap, I start looking to see how many jobs she axed, factories she shut, and how much production was offshored. To me, a company's health is more than just that final dollar figure at the end of the annual report.

And if that's true for a monstro corporation, it is even more true for a country. Look at what Choom Boy has done, and his myrmidons have tons of figures, graphs and charts proving that We've Never Had It So Good.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 10:10 AM (rCmeG)

64 Incredible work, by the way, Y-not!

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 01, 2015 10:10 AM (d4mMH)

65 Assuming Ted Cruz is not an "outsider" candidate, Fiorina would also be my choice. Not sure why she is not getting more traction with conservatives, women, R's in general.

Posted by: RM at August 01, 2015 10:12 AM (Sj3r3)

66 I don't see Fiorina's Benghazi statement so much as a swipe at Romney as a statement about a big lost opportunity whose timing could not be better (2 months before the elections! ) had we had a candidate and party with gonads.

***

There should have been a boatload of folks paving the path for him on that. It should not have been such a risky proposition, him on an island all alone, in stating the obvious.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at August 01, 2015 10:13 AM (PMlgt)

67 I love Ingraham's tweet regarding Jeb and Hillary: "they should campaign together and save everyone time".

Yup.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:14 AM (TxJGV)

68 She'd not take the cut in pay or status, but she'd be one hell of an awesome Press Secretary in a Walker/Cruz administration.

And I don't mean that as a demeaning insult, either. I mean it admiringly, as she'd school that herd of presstitutes like no one since Tony Snow, and likely even better at times.

You know, we conservatives are often derided for "The Southern Strategy", and those accusations clearly prove that the libtards don't even have a clue as to what that erstwhile "Strategy" was.

But you know what we DO need?

A "Media Strategy". Fiona is actually far more skillful than Trump in this arena. He has bombast and brute force. She has skill, finesse, and just the right amount of heat and passion to back her well informed and skillfully stated points.

If Rinsed Penis had more than three functioning brain cells, he'd have all of the candidates in for a four-day weekends' worth of full-contact, Media Warfare training.

Judo, mostly. Learn how to throw the bastards with the momentum of their own words.

As far as addressing the media with the tar, feathers, pitchforks, ropes n' lamp posts....well that's our job to do.


Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2015 10:15 AM (RzZOc)

69 We really don't need a repeat of Romney burning everybody else to the ground then wriggling around like a worm on a hot sidewalk against their Democrat opponent.

I agree. People seem to think the way to win is to destroy your rivals, when you should be outplaying them and showing you're better. The enemies are the other party, not your fellow party candidates.

Anyone who thinks you get to the top of a corporation from a secretarial position without knowing how to play politics is deluding themselves

Or just has never worked in an office. There's no more cutthroat, awful political arena on earth.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:15 AM (39g3+)

70 >>65 Assuming Ted Cruz is not an "outsider" candidate

Yeah, I don't consider Cruz to be an "outsider." Between his current Senate term and his time as Solicitor General of Texas, I think I know how he operates in government and where he stands on most things.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:16 AM (RWGcK)

71 I think after 2008 when Barack Obama - radical extremist no-skill incompetent nobody suddenly became the front runner proved to people that anyone can make it, if they can just catch on.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:05 AM (39g3+)

Unfortunately for the people who think this, Obama was a "nobody" being pushed by a fairly powerful coalition of people. He didn't do that on his own, at all.
Posted by: East Bay KG at August 01, 2015 10:09 AM (YUrE9)


The Democrat Party also operates very differently from the Republicans. The Dem candidates have to get out there and appeal to as many of their disparate demographic groups as they can. If your guy (or gal) can't seduce all the blacks, the gays, the harpy women, the hispanics, the unions, etc, he (or she) is not going to be nominated.


The Republican Party really only has to please one demographic: The CoC. And the blue hairs will vote for the guy whose turn it is.


No one has any evidence whatsoever that this is going to be anyone other the Jeb. None. Certainly not any of those poo flinging monkeys who will be on stage with him next Thursday don't.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 10:16 AM (Dj0WE)

72 "Not sure why she is not getting more traction with conservatives, women, R's in general."


Trump's stolen the spotlight as Chief bomb-thrower for now.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:17 AM (7/znG)

73 >>I love Ingraham's tweet regarding Jeb and Hillary: "they should campaign together and save everyone time".


Heh, says it all.
I still get the feeling Jeb is phone it in, Fred Thompson-style.

Hillary's not exactly working hard either. Like, why should she talk to the press, answer questions about things like Keystone XL - she's already proven (in her mind) she's presidential, so why must she waste her valuable time for the stupid masses?

Posted by: Lizzy at August 01, 2015 10:19 AM (NOIQH)

74 72 "Not sure why she is not getting more traction with conservatives, women, R's in general."


Trump's stolen the spotlight as Chief bomb-thrower for now.


--

Yep.

But over time, should Fiorina stay in it, things like that Elle magazine interview could really help her gain traction with women swing voters, imo. That's a platform that she is able to use very effectively simply b/c of her lady parts. And it's an important type of outreach b/c right now the Democrats own all of those media outlets targeted at women.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:19 AM (RWGcK)

75 While the field is crowded with non-candidates one person I'm glad to see in the group is Jindal. He's probably not in for long but he's already done a lot to rehabilitate his image with some of his really effective interviews (if anyone has watched, that is!). He's obviously running for a cabinet spot right now, like Christie and so many others, but (unlike Christie) I'm glad he jumped in.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:20 AM (TxJGV)

76 I remain confident that Trump will flame out, and soon, but my crystal ball stopped working in about 2007 so who knows. But if/when he does, I think people will take another look at Fiorino.

I do know that the press is desperate to starve her of oxygen and notice. She absolutely destroys the "war on women/GOP is all white men" nonsense just by showing up. Then when she starts talking, she buries her opponents.

I am totally certain she's got a book of responses and reactions to the HP attacks ready and waiting.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:20 AM (39g3+)

77 75 While the field is crowded with non-candidates one person I'm glad to see in the group is Jindal.
--

Yeah, he is a very long shot, in large part b/c he's getting flak from both the Ds and the Rs in his state. He's a lame duck and no one is happy with him. Also, he announced kind of late.

I normally don't watch debates, but I'm tempted to watch the one with Jindal, Perry, and - it looks like - Fiorina.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:22 AM (RWGcK)

78 "I am totally certain she's got a book of responses and reactions to the HP attacks ready and waiting."

She has a Binder full of responses!


Eleventy!!!

Posted by: Ashley Judd's single working neuron at August 01, 2015 10:23 AM (VPLuQ)

79 >>Trump's stolen the spotlight as Chief bomb-thrower for now.


Not just stolen - the MSM would much rather cover "controversial" Trump, all Cecil-like, then highlight a candidate (any of them) with a palatable, non-"mainstream" message.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 01, 2015 10:23 AM (NOIQH)

80 I think Fiorina is running for VP, not P. That's why she's in front of the camera attacking Hillary so much, but not very high in the polls.

To be higher in the polls, she'd need to focus on state to state grass roots organization the way Walker and Carson are doing.

She's doing a great job as attack dog, though.

Posted by: Old Hob at August 01, 2015 10:23 AM (FFIoe)

81 The Republican Party really only has to please one
demographic: The CoC. And the blue hairs will vote for the guy whose
turn it is.
No one has any evidence whatsoever that this is going to be anyone
other the Jeb. None. Certainly not any of those poo flinging
monkeys who will be on stage with him next Thursday don't.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 10:16 AM


Pretty much in agreement with you. But there is that vociferous band of "experts" who keep trying to foist Identity Politics off on the Republicans. On top, that is, of the strong CofC contingent. Of course they try to pick toe-the-line types and not wild-eyed radicals the way the Democrats do. That's what gives the Rubios, Cruzes, Fiorinas and Jindals what traction they have.

But in the end, Jeb! has all the Right Stuff to be the Great Republican Hope for '16, including a heavy aura of identity Politics and great CofC skillz.

That's what makes it likely I will again cast my vote for Vermin Supreme.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 10:23 AM (rCmeG)

82 With regards to the 2012 Presidential race:

Romney has a lot of fine qualities as a man, and may (or may not have) been a good President (certainly better than the awfulness of Barack Obama).

But he showed he could not go for the political jugular and attack Obama at his weakest point (i.e., the Benghazi fiasco).
He showed the same weakness years ago when he ran for Senate against Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts.
Your political base voters in your party WANT to see you do that, from time to time. They WANT to see you show you've got spine and are willing to attack and speak up about something that has gone wrong.
Donald Trump does it maybe too much. Carly Fiorina has done it. Ted Cruz is doing it now.

The fact that Romney FAILED to do so lost him the election, because he did not energize his base sufficiently to turn out for him in November of 2012. He did not do the things to show them he was on their side.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 10:23 AM (+1T7c)

83 Fiorina's not going to be the nominee. She'd arguably be a liability even as veep candidate ("When the phone rings at 3 a.m., will Carly Fiorina be ready?" I just wrote the DNC's ad for them.)

I will sit home before I vote for Bush or Rubio. I don't think their fratricide in the primaries will allow Cruz to break through. And you know the Dems must have a dozen ads ready portraying him as a crazy. Trump's a loose cannon, more Dem than Republican, but I sure approve of his stance on illegal immigration. However, the GOPe will move heaven and earth to make sure he's not the nominee. My guess is Rubio will eventually win the nominee and get beaten by drafted Fauxahontas in the general.

But we could save a lot of time and effort if the Dems and GOPe would just agree on a Clinton/Bush unity ticket. Jeb, reach across the aisle, for the good of the nation...

Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 10:23 AM (ueOgE)

84 So, she favors "legally requiring the hiring of womens and minorities". I'm guessing AA on that, but later on she says,

"Everyone --regardless of what they look like -- is equal. Everyone --
regardless of what they look like -- has potential that we need to tap
if we are going to be the greatest nation we can be. And so that's how I
want to talk to the American people. It doesn't matter if you're a man
or a woman, African American or Hispanic, you care about whether or not
you have a good job."

I'm a little confused on that.


Posted by: Bruce at August 01, 2015 10:27 AM (8ikIW)

85 When is Tim Pawlenty going to announce?

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 10:28 AM (+1T7c)

86 Fiorina's not going to be the nominee. She'd arguably be a liability even as veep candidate ("When the phone rings at 3 a.m., will Carly Fiorina be ready?" I just wrote the DNC's ad for them.)
---

I don't see how that is an effective attack on Fiorina. In fact, she exudes preparation, focus, and gravitas.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:28 AM (RWGcK)

87 I normally don't watch debates, but I'm tempted to watch the one with Jindal, Perry, and - it looks like - Fiorina.

To the extent any debates are interesting, the second tier one will certainly have the best content and firepower in terms of candidates. They'll have more to prove and probably be better prepared. Plus, I'd much rather see these guys than Trump and Jeb duke it out.

The fact that Romney FAILED to do so lost him the election, because he did not energize his base sufficiently to turn out for him in November of 2012. He did not do the things to show them he was on their side.

I agree it cost him to not go after Obama, but the base did turn out. In fact, I read a great analysis that showed that, with the numbers and percentages of the population that Romney got, in 1984 he would have won by a landslide. He pulled in more "Reagan Democrats" than Reagan did.

The country has changed that much and the system is tilted that strongly against Republicans. It wasn't turnout by Conservatives, it wasn't Christians staying home that lost it for Romney. This lie has got to stop.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:28 AM (39g3+)

88
"Fiorina's tenure as CEO of HP was controversial."




If your company's stock skyrockets when you're fired, your tenure wasn't controversial, it was disastrous.

That said, she has been a surprisingly effective speaker on the trail and might have done well in a smaller debate setting, gaining some momentum. Unfortunately for her, she's at a statistical zero in the polls and will be at the kiddie table in Loserville. Ain't going nowhere.

Might get a cabinet job out of this, though.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 10:28 AM (kdS6q)

89 I already like her because her campaign materials use the neutral term "chairman" instead of its 1970s abominations "chairperson" and "chair."

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at August 01, 2015 10:30 AM (q9vre)

90 @71 Dem candidates have to get out there and appeal to as many of their disparate demographic groups as they can.
The Republican Party really only has to please one demographic: The CoC. And the blue hairs will vote for the guy whose turn it is.

Great point, Burt. The GOP candidates ignore the base, figuring, "who else are they going to vote for?" They haven't learned the lesson of 2012: the GOP base may not vote at all.

I wonder just how bad a disaster for the GOP the 2016 elections could be down-ticket if enough of the base stays home. They could likely lose the senate (most of the seats up for election are GOP, aren't they?) and I wonder if they could lose the house as well. Has anybody gamed this out?

Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 10:30 AM (ueOgE)

91 I don't see how that is an effective attack on Fiorina. In fact, she exudes preparation, focus, and gravitas.

Yeah I'm not seeing that either. Exactly how would that hurt her? Hillary yes. She's proved for all time how she reacts to that call: blow it off and let people die. But Fiorino? She's probably awake then, working.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:30 AM (39g3+)

92 James Woods had a great response to the Hillary "People should and do trust me" comment.

"And unicorns should replace reindeer on Santas sleigh".

Hillary has earned the derision (and the criminal investigations). But until she checks out our side needs to keep on engaging her.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:31 AM (TxJGV)

93 she ran for the Senate in 2010, she had a relapse of the cancer, so she effectively was out the last part of the race,
the fellow who is running Jeb's campaign, Mike Iceberg Murphy, augured in the Gope candidate, Meg (name escapes me) against Brown, to the tune of 150 million dollars,

Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 10:31 AM (0u/CC)

94 But we could save a lot of time and effort if the Dems and GOPe would just agree on a Clinton/Bush unity ticket. Jeb, reach across the aisle, for the good of the nation...
Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 10:23 AM (ueOgE)


Yep. And we can fast-forward about 16-20 years from now, when Chelsea and George P are running...


Yay, more Clintbushes. Or Bushclintons, if you prefer.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 10:31 AM (Dj0WE)

95 I refuse to vote for that Mexican wannabe, Jeb Bush

If it comes down to Bush vs. Clinton, I'll vote for Clinton.

If we're going to go to hell in a handbasket, might as well make it a speedier trip.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 01, 2015 10:32 AM (kGrdk)

96 Hi all
I like Carly but I don't know about her service at HP, seems like her record there was "mixed"

Posted by: chemjeff enjoying blueberry pancakes at August 01, 2015 10:33 AM (2XMpf)

97 I wonder just how bad a disaster for the GOP the 2016 elections could be down-ticket if enough of the base stays home.

As it stands right now, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Dems win congress again. At least the Senate, by small margin. I expect them to win the presidency.

But as I've said before, I believe the next president will have a complete, inescapable disaster thrown into their lap, so its better we don't put someone like Walker or Cruz in there to take the hit.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:33 AM (39g3+)

98 If we're going to go to hell in a handbasket, might as well make it a speedier trip.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 01, 2015 10:32 AM (kGrdk)

How fast can the handbasket make the Kessel Run?

Posted by: Bruce at August 01, 2015 10:33 AM (8ikIW)

99 Although I do give a large edge to George P. He's got that bronze skin tone that will be much more valuable in a few years. Chelsea is just too pasty white. Unless she can get some more plastic surgery between now and then?

Permanent bronzer has to exist... or soon will, right?

Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 10:33 AM (Dj0WE)

100 "and George P are running... "


Yeah, probably the next Governor of Texas after Abbott's two terms.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:33 AM (7/znG)

101 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:28 AM

The seeds of the '12 failure were planted in '08, when McCain and the Nabobs of Republicanism decided it would be all racisty and impolite and unfair to go after Choom Boy on pointless details like his history (or lack thereof), qualifications and experience (or lack thereof), and questionable friends and associates.

Having once failed to do so, they were unlikely to change course the second time, especially since it had become clear to them that the Mocha Messiah's followers were as rabid as ever.

This is one reason I suspect Shrillery, for all her liabilities, will prevail on the Democrat side. They know damn well that the Republicans will not grow a pair and go after the loathsome woman, who is after all another Historic First. P.S. Only Democrats can be Historic First.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 10:34 AM (rCmeG)

102 (via Insty)

This is.....telling:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/02/15/jeb-bush-i-d-strive-to-be-like-

lyndon-johnson-if-elected-president/

(remove extra spaces)


That's right, Jeb! wants to govern like LBJ if he wins the Presidency.

HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!

Anyone who'd take LBJ as their model of governance, especially as the GOP nom, is just mentally ill.

This isn't going after the middle. This is kind of unprecedented, Jeb!'s wooing the far left.

Welp. good luck with that.


Secondly, LBJ was Senate majority leader as well as being one mean sumbitch, and a corrupt near-gangster with dirt on everybody (EVERYBODY!!!!) in the Senate and House.

Mostly, he got what he wanted through pure political arm-twisting and blackmail.

Jeb! has neither that background, temperament, or rolodex full of blackmail material.


And this is the guy the GOPe and CoC want to foist on us...


Feh.


Posted by: naturalfake at August 01, 2015 10:34 AM (KUa85)

103 The country has changed that much and the system is
tilted that strongly against Republicans. It wasn't turnout by
Conservatives, it wasn't Christians staying home that lost it for
Romney. This lie has got to stop.


Posted by: Christopher Taylor

Romney pulled in fewer votes TOTAL than George Bush did in 2004, just as Barack Obama pulled in fewer votes in 2012 than in 2008.

Somebody did not care to come out and vote. I am not accusing any faction, but the base is more than just self identified SoCons, Ficons, etc. in terms of the Republican party. You could throw in self-identified Independents who lean Right that stayed home. He did not do enough to energize the vote, and thus he lost to frankly a weak incumbent who has been a terrible President.

I live in an area that is fairly strongly Republican, and the polling area (church with 5 precincts voting in it) was not that busy on election day in 2012. It seemed weird to me at the time, but that was just an anecdotal observation.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 10:35 AM (+1T7c)

104 Yep. And we can fast-forward about 16-20 years from now, when Chelsea and George P are running...

I think Chelsea should have married a Bush. It would have been the perfect confluence of suck with both royal families combining into one useless pairing. They could run for president against each other in 2024.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:35 AM (39g3+)

105 Fiorina saying this and saying that, it reminds me of the old Groucho Marx TV game show "You bet your life," where you say the magic word and win a prize. The duck drops down from above with prize money or a ticket in it's bill.

(Ok, they called it a 'secret word', and Grouch would try to engage the contestant in conversation. Kind of a variation of Art Linkletter's "Kids say the darndest things.")

All the politicians do it, throw words out there and hope one of them is the magic word.

Posted by: Pyro Maniac at August 01, 2015 10:35 AM (DaA8g)

106 "CF also ran for governor of California. "

I think that was Meg Whitman.

Posted by: t-bird at August 01, 2015 10:35 AM (FcR7P)

107 "How fast can the handbasket make the Kessel Run?"


Ya know, the parsec is actually a unit of distance rather than time.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:36 AM (7/znG)

108 Watch Carly hand Jake Tapper his own ass:

http://y2u.be/NkmkwTDV5p4

Now THAT'S the way you handle a biased question

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 01, 2015 10:36 AM (VMVmg)

109 It wasn't turnout by Conservatives, it wasn't Christians staying home that lost it for Romney. This lie has got to stop.
=============================

Along the river counties in southern Ohio I thought turnout was exactly the issue that sunk Romney, and cost him Ohio. Is that wrong?

Florida is what cost him the Electoral College election (and is IMO probably why Rubio ends up on the GOP ticket no matter who is the running mate), but losing Ohio sure didn't help.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:36 AM (TxJGV)

110
Permanent bronzer has to exist... or soon will, right?
Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 10:33 AM (Dj0WE)
__________________

Until then, just get weekly spray tans, like I do.

Posted by: Rachel Dolezal at August 01, 2015 10:36 AM (kGrdk)

111 I can also teach Chelsea how to corn row her hair!

Posted by: Rachel Dolezal at August 01, 2015 10:37 AM (kGrdk)

112 Ya know, the parsec is actually a unit of distance rather than time.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill

Yep, I know that

Posted by: Bruce at August 01, 2015 10:37 AM (8ikIW)

113 The only data I've seen that suggested social conservatives avoided voting for Romney was exit polling, and we all know what trash that is.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:38 AM (39g3+)

114 Ya know, the parsec is actually a unit of distance rather than time.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:36 AM (7/znG)


Correct, but the "sec" sounds like it's a measure of time, which is why the idiot George Lucas thought he could use it that way.

It's like calling a bad guy "Greedo". I mean, really?

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 01, 2015 10:39 AM (VMVmg)

115 Posted by: naturalfake at August 01, 2015 10:34 AM

Jeb! is an Elbee Jay wanna be? Who'd'a thunk it?

His johnson isn't big enough. And when it gets down to nut-cuttin' time, his nuts done already been cut.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 10:39 AM (rCmeG)

116 If the base stays home who is to blame. The base or the gopE who just give more of the same?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Proud owner of Luap Nor's Last Brain Cell at August 01, 2015 10:40 AM (1dGX0)

117 Real Clear Politics has analyzed 2012 extensively and showed that northern, blue collar whites stayed home. Not socons. Romney lost because he was a big business type running when big business is not popular.

Posted by: Old Hob at August 01, 2015 10:40 AM (FFIoe)

118 Skin color is just a social construct!

Chelsea can be any color he/she wants to be!

Posted by: Bruc . . . er, Caitlyn Jenner at August 01, 2015 10:40 AM (kGrdk)

119 In fairness to Fiorina, she took charge at HP at a time when the PC industry was going into decline, and the Compaq merger was something of a Hail Mary pass. That said, a great business leader would have re-invented the company into something else. And despite the mention in her bio of the increased number of patents under her tenure, I really can't think of anything innovative coming out of HP since she took over - this from one of the great innovative companies of all time. So on the whole I think her record at HP would/will be a substantial negative for her.

Plus, I bought an HP laptop once and it was a POS.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 01, 2015 10:40 AM (nFdGS)

120 Watch Carly hand Jake Tapper his own ass:

http://y2u.be/NkmkwTDV5p4

Now THAT'S the way you handle a biased question


Wow, eventually he had to just go with it and accept his shellacking. Very nice.

Posted by: t-bird at August 01, 2015 10:41 AM (FcR7P)

121 "It's like calling a bad buy "Greedo". I mean, really?"


I'm just screwing around but, yeah, Lucas' large lack of creativity only grows with the passing of time.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:42 AM (7/znG)

122 Correct, but the "sec" sounds like it's a measure of time, which is why the idiot George Lucas thought he could use it that way.

It's like calling a bad buy "Greedo". I mean, really?


Posted by: OregonMuse


You seem.....disappointed at the intellect of entertainment moguls? They got your money, didn't they?

Speaking as someone who has bought a lot of movie tickets over the years and pays a lot for cable......there's one born every minute.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 10:42 AM (+1T7c)

123 Jeb! is an Elbee Jay wanna be? Who'd'a thunk it?
____________________-

Yes, when I think of my ideal presidential candidate, the first thing that comes to mind is a Mexican wannabe who aspires to be a president like LBJ.

Posted by: Insane Lunatic Voter at August 01, 2015 10:43 AM (kGrdk)

124 Yes, when I think of my ideal presidential
candidate, the first thing that comes to mind is a Mexican wannabe who
aspires to be a president like LBJ.


Posted by: Insane Lunatic Voter

And hey, what about that bridge from Gaza to the Palestinian West Bank, huh?

Wanna buy that bridge?

Jeb is doing all the signaling he needs to do to show he is not one of those ickly Rethuglican conservatives. As Mr. Taylor indicated, the country's demographics have change since 1984. This is the mythical target that Jeb is tilting at.
Good luck, Jeb! May you fall down a flight of stairs, repeatedly.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 10:46 AM (+1T7c)

125 changing to Perry for a moment, is anyone else surprised at how much of a disappearing act he's pulled since announcing? It's really amazing.

Maybe he's hoping his Trump attacks keep him in the public eye, or maybe he is waiting on the sidelines until the field is cleared of second tier candidates, but he himself is rapidly going third tier. Unless he gets involved in the race in a more substantive way he is gone.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:46 AM (TxJGV)

126 I have misgivings about any poll that states the candidates' position on the Iran deal as "Stay out of Iran" (or not).

Isn't it the Democrat position that it's either this putrid deal or war?

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at August 01, 2015 10:46 AM (2bMA4)

127 I like what I've seen from Fiorina so far. While I would greatly prefer Palin as the Historic First Woman President, I would vote for Fiorina if she got the nomination. Can't say the same for Jeb.

Posted by: rickl at August 01, 2015 10:46 AM (sdi6R)

128 I'm just screwing around but, yeah, Lucas' large lack of creativity only grows with the passing of time.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:42 AM (7/znG)


Concur.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 01, 2015 10:47 AM (VMVmg)

129 Can't say the same for Jeb.


Posted by: rickl

You're being too Cis-normative.

Debby Bush could be the first woman President.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 10:47 AM (+1T7c)

130
Republican candidate skeletons of the week:

The reveal that a Democratic lobbyist threw new entrant John Kasich an engagement party, and paid Hillary to be there.

And the Friday bubble on Jeb!'s central role in the Planned Parenthood financing Bloomberg Family Foundation, as well as Jeb!'s over all BFF status with Bloomie.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 10:48 AM (kdS6q)

131 "is anyone else surprised at how much of a disappearing act he's pulled since announcing? It's really amazing. "


His kick-off speech was a thing to behold IMO. But, yeah, since then it's a been a spin around the bowl. I don't think he's figured out his place in the field or who he should be yet.

Which is strange.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 10:49 AM (7/znG)

132 Cruz/Fiorina. That's the ticket.

Posted by: rrpjr at August 01, 2015 10:50 AM (s/yC1)

133 86 Fiorina's not going to be the nominee. She'd arguably be a liability even as veep candidate ("When the phone rings at 3 a.m., will Carly Fiorina be ready?" I just wrote the DNC's ad for them.)
---

I don't see how that is an effective attack on Fiorina. In fact, she exudes preparation, focus, and gravitas.


-------

I agree that an ad like that against Fiorina would backfire. I just last week finished chemo,and the fact that she campaigned while going through chemo shows how tough and driven she is. I admire her a lot. Although I would really like a Trump/Cruz ticket, I would also like a Cruz/Fiorina ticket.

Posted by: Chilling the most at August 01, 2015 10:50 AM (zW5rQ)

134 That said, I _am_ sorry that this would exclude Fiorina, but I think it would be unwise to nominate someone who hasn't or can't or won't win public office in their home state and/or bring their home state's electoral votes with them to the nomination.

And I'm really sorry that California's a bunch of unpersuadable retard commie nazis that want Iran to have the bomb while pretending otherwise, both to us and themselves, but as long as this is the case we're better off ignoring them and anyone from there in hopes of winning the election without them. Which may mean nominating someone from Wisconsin.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at August 01, 2015 10:50 AM (2bMA4)

135 Unless he gets involved in the race in a more substantive way he is gone.

Posted by: MTF at August 01, 2015 10:46 AM (TxJGV)

I have always liked Perry here in Texas.
He needs to get out and enjoy the rest of his life.

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 01, 2015 10:51 AM (R8hU8)

136 Jeb! will have to change LBJ's "Great Society" to "Gran Sociedad" -- in keeping with his "I'm not really a Mexican but I play one on t.v. and at home" schtick.

Because the only reason LBJ's big-government social engineering schemes didn't work out as planned was because they weren't in Spanish!

Posted by: Insane Lunatic Voter at August 01, 2015 10:51 AM (kGrdk)

137 125 changing to Perry for a moment, is anyone else surprised at how much of a disappearing act he's pulled since announcing? It's really amazing.
---

He really hasn't. He's given several major policy speeches, has been doing the Sunday show interviews etc, and has been doing a lot of the boots on the ground work in Iowa and elsewhere. And his fundraising numbers are much better than I'd expected given that he is still fending off those bogus indictments.

I think it's just that a lot of the retail politics stuff (you know, going to press the flesh with locals a the county fair type of thing) does not make the news.

Here's a mini news roundup on some of the candidates from last week:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/358056.php

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:51 AM (RWGcK)

138
Fiorina, she took charge at HP at a time when the PC industry was going into decline
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge




HP was much more than a "PC company". Diversified in an IBM sort of way, which is supposed to even out swings in any particular sector.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 10:52 AM (kdS6q)

139 Republican candidate skeletons of the week:

The reveal that a Democratic lobbyist threw new entrant John Kasich an engagement party, and paid Hillary to be there.


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 10:48 AM (kdS6q)

Speaking of skeletons and Kasich, I saw a shot of him yesterday standing up for the first time in years and...the man literally has no spine. What a perfect vessel for the R establishment.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 01, 2015 10:52 AM (nFdGS)

140 I love how Carly handles the media.

That said, she will never win an election. Her face is too narrow and wicked witch like. I'm not joking - facial appearance is one of the biggest predictors of electoral success. The eyes / eyebrows / forehead area specially - have to be "trustable".

Posted by: @votermom at August 01, 2015 10:53 AM (cbfNE)

141 that was 18 years, that event with Kasich, all you need to know, is Perry signed up Schmidt, so he's already dead,

Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 10:53 AM (0u/CC)

142 I like her rhetoric; I don't like her. After years of having American workers train their H1B replacements, ostensibly to cut costs at a financially critical phase, she somehow finagled a $21 million buyout for failing.


I try not to be envious or any kind of class warrior, but dang.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at August 01, 2015 10:53 AM (HHFpd)

143 Face it, with Trumpmentum most of the candidates have been invisible. I think Rand has been hurt the most, frankly.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:53 AM (RWGcK)

144 While I would greatly prefer Palin as the Historic First Woman President, I would vote for Fiorina if she got the nomination.

Actually, I think I would prefer Fiorina. From what I've seen so far. I think she is more of a principled conservative. Sarah is more of a populist-from-the-right, and I don't completely trust her.

Palin as president would be fun to watch, though, as progtard heads all over the country would be exploding like rotten watermelons.

Fiorina/Palin 2016!

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 01, 2015 10:54 AM (VMVmg)

145 Jeb! as LBJ: "I'll have those wetbacks voting Democrat for the next 200 years!"

Posted by: Insane Lunatic Voter at August 01, 2015 10:54 AM (kGrdk)

146 141 that was 18 years, that event with Kasich, all you need to know, is Perry signed up Schmidt, so he's already dead,
Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 10:53 AM (0u/CC)
--

And Walker's Super PAC, which is run by his former aide, hired Brad Dayspring.

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:55 AM (RWGcK)

147 Posted by: @votermom at August 01, 2015 10:53 AM (cbfNE)

I hate the fact that you're right, but I think you're right.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 01, 2015 10:56 AM (VMVmg)

148 Along the lines of what votermom said, Carly does need a better haircut.

I hate to say it, but the picture I saw of Hillary's $600 haircut made it seem like money well spent.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:57 AM (RWGcK)

149 Somebody did not care to come out and vote. I am not accusing any faction...
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....whacko bird in America at August 01, 2015 10:35 AM (+1T7c)

He was an impossibly shitty and uninspiring nominee. This is the nub of it. True, he did not get the turnout he needed, but this isn't because of begrudging or faithless "socons." It was because he did not do his job -- a job that could not have been clearer or more urgent. Respondeat superior -- the man at the top is responsible.

By the way, Trump has exploded the myth that conservatives or "socons" are ideological purists. What conservatives and socons want is a fighter. Romney fell pitifully short. I'm surprised I turned out.

Posted by: rrpjr at August 01, 2015 10:57 AM (s/yC1)

150 Watch Carly hand Jake Tapper his own ass:

Watch Jake Tapper work overtime to "emote", wrinkling his forehead like a Shar-pei faced with an aggressive iguana . Useless, stupid, vain, ego-driven, status- and rent-seeking vile clown.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2015 10:59 AM (3pRHP)

151 I hate the fact that you're right, but I think you're right.
Posted by: OregonMuse at August 01, 2015 10:56 AM (VMVmg)

It's also my biggest worry with Ted Cruz, although his chin area may be overcomeable (is that a word?) He's certainly managed to win elections.

Posted by: @votermom at August 01, 2015 10:59 AM (cbfNE)

152 It's also my biggest worry with Ted Cruz, although his chin area may be overcomeable (is that a word?) He's certainly managed to win elections.
---

And Scott Walker. Hell, most of these folks are not very easy on the eyes.

Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 11:01 AM (RWGcK)

153
Speaking of skeletons and Kasich
Posted by: Emmett Milbarg



As we will, since he does has a shot at the VP slot because Ohio.

Started doing some preliminary research and he's a Christmas tree of "what he say?" stories. Another fun area is his gushing praise of Hilliary during the Clinton years. Which, you know -- gonna be a problem when Hilliary is the person you're supposed to be attacking now.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 11:01 AM (kdS6q)

154 97 But as I've said before, I believe the next president will have a complete, inescapable disaster thrown into their lap
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 01, 2015 10:33 AM (39g3+)

What one? SS won't go broke for 10-20 years, and the printing presses will probably hide our insolvency for another 10 years or so. Did you have some overseas thing in mind? Just curious.

Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 11:02 AM (ueOgE)

155 Useless, stupid, vain, ego-driven, status- and rent-seeking vile clown.
Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2015 10:59 AM (3pRHP)

Yes. What I can't stand is how so many conservatives rush to praise Tapper. It's like he deserves an award for being slightly less detestably biased from time to time.

Posted by: rrpjr at August 01, 2015 11:02 AM (s/yC1)

156 Useless, stupid, vain, ego-driven, status- and rent-seeking vile clown.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2015 10:59 AM (3pRHP)


Heh. And he's actually one of the better journalists in DC.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 01, 2015 11:03 AM (VMVmg)

157 https://goo.gl/aZfjwx

I read the comments and I am going to be sick...
I cant believe people still buy into this crap. No respect for the murdered millions.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at August 01, 2015 11:04 AM (iQIUe)

158 Useless, stupid, vain, ego-driven, status- and rent-seeking vile clown.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2015 10:59 AM (3pRHP)



And that's his good side. :0

Posted by: naturalfake at August 01, 2015 11:04 AM (KUa85)

159 Can't read them all. "I'm starting to think she is in it for her own reasons. Maybe just to run for VP or maybe to raise issues or maybe to be the attack dog against Hillary. "
I'm pretty sure that was Obama's role in 2008. He saw how weak Hillary was and went for it. I just sent a small contribution to Carly.

Meg Whitman is now running HP about the same way Carly was.

Posted by: Mike K at August 01, 2015 11:04 AM (5namt)

160 tapper ran over my state and bcochran's when he was at Salon, i've distrusted him since then, and rarely given a reason to second guess,

Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 11:05 AM (0u/CC)

161 154
What one? SS won't go broke for 10-20 years, and the printing presses will probably hide our insolvency for another 10 years or so. Did you have some overseas thing in mind? Just curious.
Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 11:02 AM (ueOgE)


It's Medicare and Medicaid that will collapse our economy, not Social Security. I think it will happen sooner than ten years.

Posted by: rickl at August 01, 2015 11:05 AM (sdi6R)

162 As we will, since he does has a shot at the VP slot because Ohio.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 11:01 AM (kdS6q)

My most prominent memory of Kasich during the Clinton years was his jubilation over a budget deal (that Clinton eventually reneged on): "It's a dream come true! It's a dream come true!" he kept spouting on Brinkley's show. It was embarrassing.

But as I was referring to, the man has the body of Montgomery Burns (and the face and character of Smithers).

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 01, 2015 11:07 AM (nFdGS)

163 whitman she's the one who crashed and burned, against betamax brown,

Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 11:08 AM (0u/CC)

164 Medicare and Medicaid will collapse the US economy in less than 20 years, and why that's a good thing.....

Posted by: The Vox! The Vox! Back to the Vox! at August 01, 2015 11:08 AM (+1T7c)

165 "It's Medicare and Medicaid that will collapse our economy, not Social Security. I think it will happen sooner than ten years."



Greek style.....

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at August 01, 2015 11:10 AM (7/znG)

166 For the umpteenth time, SS is already broke. Those aren't real "assets" in its "trust fund".

Posted by: Burn the Witch at August 01, 2015 11:14 AM (xSCb6)

167
And Scott Walker. Hell, most of these folks are not very easy on the eyes.



Posted by: Y-not

I'm tanned, rested, and ready to serve!

Posted by: Caitlyn Jenner at August 01, 2015 11:14 AM (OiFtZ)

168 161 It's Medicare and Medicaid that will collapse our economy, not Social Security. I think it will happen sooner than ten years.
Posted by: rickl at August 01, 2015 11:05 AM (sdi6R)

I don't think that'll do it. They've learned from the VA how to handle costs: infinite waiting lists=death=savings, and savings+Planned Parenthood=profit!

Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 11:14 AM (ueOgE)

169 Everytime I watch Fiorina in an interview she is very good. Never trips up and fine points questions. On the subject of 'she doesn't have government experience' her answer has been that this republic wasn't formed for career politicians yet rather citizen led. She's right.

If you are going to criticize her for lack of experience in the government field, look at what was voted in to office twice.

Posted by: Cheri at August 01, 2015 11:15 AM (ZFPMM)

170 And Scott Walker. Hell, most of these folks are not very easy on the eyes.
Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 11:01 AM (RWGcK)

They don't have to be good looking to win, they just have to look "sympatico." Walker has that.

Posted by: @votermom at August 01, 2015 11:15 AM (cbfNE)

171 So Fiorina runs the organization that handles CPAC. When did she take it over? Was it before or after they caved to the fake conservative no longer in existence GOProud? And haven't there been complaints about CPAC going downhill? Has that all been under her leadership?

Posted by: buzzion at August 01, 2015 11:17 AM (zt+N6)

172 Fiorina did show at HP that she was going to make the tough decisions and live with the consequences. Presidents have to make those no-win decisions all the time. HP has survived as an entity; where is Kodak, Bell Labs, superconducting atomic research, Xerox, NASA, IBM -- the list goes on. Her HP tenure is a net plus for me and her media work is brilliant.

Cruz/Fiorina would be a GREAT ticket.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 01, 2015 11:17 AM (MIKMs)

173 ***"changing to Perry for a moment, is anyone else surprised at how much of a disappearing act he's pulled since announcing?"***


Last link I saw of him posted here at the HQ was that link currently in the sidebar where the dumbass is goofing on Trump.


I think a lot of people have stopped following him, so that's why it seems he's disappeared.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at August 01, 2015 11:18 AM (xSCb6)

174 by Fox News, in conjunction with Facebook and the Ohio Republican Party

These 'debates' have 3 strikes against them before the batter even warms up.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at August 01, 2015 11:19 AM (ktt8p)

175 seriously, what could go wrong,

Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 11:21 AM (0u/CC)

176 Fiorina went in to the fever swamp of the view where Goldberg and others tried their best to trip her up. She handled them like a fine wine and received many applause from the dimwits in the audience. No stupid Mc Cain moment on race at all. She was awesome and schooled those that had the capacity to be taught.

Posted by: Cheri at August 01, 2015 11:21 AM (ZFPMM)

177 @166
I know; they have no real money, IIRC the SS taxes pay current bills and any extras go into the general fund, with IOUs tossed into the SS "lockbox." But the issue will come when SS taxes can't cover the bills and either there isn't enough money available to cover the IOUs, or the IOUs are used up. Only way around that is to crank up the printing presses.

Posted by: Agent J at August 01, 2015 11:22 AM (ueOgE)

178 All printers suck.

Posted by: DaveA at August 01, 2015 11:23 AM (DL2i+)

179
Fiorina did show at HP that she was going to make the tough decisions and live with the consequences.
Posted by: mustbequantum



The consequences for her being -- what now? Cause looks like someone cosplayed as a CEO for six years and got a golden parachute, while thousands lost their jobs and hundreds of thousands lost money on HP stock - 65% fall during her tenure.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 11:24 AM (kdS6q)

180 ***"So Fiorina runs the organization that handles CPAC. When did she take it over?"***


Looks like she was named co-chair in 2014.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at August 01, 2015 11:24 AM (xSCb6)

181 Don't forget student loan debt.

Posted by: Infidel at August 01, 2015 11:25 AM (T1Cnd)

182 Another commenter here mentioned that her husband worked for a company that Fiorina was CEO of before HP. His opinion of her was not positive.

Posted by: buzzion at August 01, 2015 11:26 AM (zt+N6)

183 Greetings:

My concern about Ms. Fiorina's candidacy is can she reach or sway the now-dreaded low-information voters on whom our Democractic brothers and sisters and whatevers seem to have such a lock.

Posted by: 11B40 at August 01, 2015 11:27 AM (abx5/)

184 Cause looks like someone cosplayed as a CEO for six
years and got a golden parachute, while thousands lost their jobs and
hundreds of thousands lost money on HP stock - 65% fall during her
tenure. Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 11:24 AM


Yeah, but she's a woman and she talks real good!

Optics! Message!

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 11:28 AM (rCmeG)

185 true but the spew has lost three hundred thousand viewers, that two million more than it deserves,

Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 11:28 AM (0u/CC)

186 Yeah, Hillary / Sanders / Fauxcahontas just has to promise student loan forgiveness and that's it, game over.
Really don't see how to counter that empty campaign promise.

Posted by: @votermom at August 01, 2015 11:28 AM (cbfNE)

187 LDC -- HP survived when others did not. Half of our discussions here are about biting the bullet and what must be cut and rearranged. As far as I can see, we are in a war for our survival as the USA. I'm not a LIB, but I do know what we have uncomfortable decisions in the on deck and her experience is invaluable as far as I am concerned.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 01, 2015 11:30 AM (MIKMs)

188 Cruz/Fiorina, yeah, that's the ticket. (throwback to Mr. Lovitz)

Seriously, even if some people have policies I like better, she takes the fight. I will take someone who fights on 70% of my policies vs. someone who espouses 100% but does baloney and rolls over in the face of media attacks.

I feel conservatives always get suckered by people who tell them what they want to hear but have no intention of following through.

Carly doesn't have all the policies I want, but I don't think the should would be intimidated from her core principles. I like that.

Cruz has more conservative core principles - I like that - and he will fight for them, I really like that and its what counts.

Walker has fewer conservative core principles, but again he has proven he is willing to stand and fight for them to great lengths. More so that many others in the field.

Renee Ellmers supposedly had tons of core principles, but they are superseded by her #1 principle, which is kiss Boehner's behind and vote however she is told to. I can't stand the way conservatives go for that.

And, she may have risen successfully through HP but failed as a CEO (always debatable), but I also like someone in the WhiteHouse who has failed at something. If you have never been tested, never gotten knocked down, and never been thoroughly humbled, then there is an element of character missing that is needed to hold that office, in my opinion.

So, I hope I see Carly rise. She deserves the full spotlight, if she wilts under it (which I don't think she will), so be it. But she more so than Trump is the media-savvy businessperson who should be the outside candidate this season, in my opinion.


Posted by: PrincetonAl at August 01, 2015 11:31 AM (0v6Aj)

189 More experience in office can lead to better performance.

It can also lead to corruption, loss of purpose, and assimilation by the Empire.

Thids talk that candidates should do this first or be that instead strikes me as vanity and fussiness and a pose to divert your attention back to the candidate you prefer.

What we really ned in the next President is the will and fortitude to push our enemies, foreign and domestic, down on their asses and tell them this shit is done.

We do not need good governing, we need some asses kicked.

Posted by: eman at August 01, 2015 11:31 AM (MQEz6)

190 Yeah, Hillary / Sanders / Fauxcahontas just has to promise student loan forgiveness and that's it, game over.
Really don't see how to counter that empty campaign promise.

Posted by: @votermom at August 01, 2015 11:28 AM


Don't see that being a '16 issue. More likely, Choom Boy will decree that beforehand. Especially if he can somehow make it only for members of certain Protected Oppressed Minority People-type groups.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 11:32 AM (rCmeG)

191 You know since this is mostly going to be Fox News and Facebook running this debate I think we're going to need a thread sometime before the debate happens. And the topic will need to be: What conservative concern is going to be covered minimally or completely ignored and which liberal wedge issue is going to be heavily pushed?

Posted by: buzzion at August 01, 2015 11:33 AM (zt+N6)

192 And Walker's Super PAC, which is run by his former aide, hired Brad Dayspring.

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.
Posted by: Y-not at August 01, 2015 10:55 AM (RWGcK)

Perry hired Schmidt himself. Super PACs are supposed to be independent, so I assume Walker didn't hire Dayspring himself.

Posted by: Jon at August 01, 2015 11:35 AM (HA+/6)

193 We do not need good governing, we need some asses kicked.
Posted by: eman at August 01, 2015 11:31 AM


If the next four years are spent on abrogating treaties (especially the "secret" ones), reversing executive and court decisions, repealing laws and throwing a shit-ton of asses in prison, they will be well spent.

And America will be the better for it.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 11:36 AM (rCmeG)

194 ***"But the issue will come when SS taxes can't cover the bills and either there isn't enough money available to cover the IOUs, or the IOUs are used up. Only way around that is to crank up the printing presses."***


There's currently some debate over when SS will be paying out more than it takes in. I've seen completely unrealistic and insane projections of 20 years, but the more likely scenario is around 5. There are some reports that it's already happening effectively. I think the longer projections account for actually draining the principal, which would make sense.


And there is no money to cover the IOUs when the outflows exceed the inflows, so when the criminal government accounting geniuses can no longer shuffle the numbers in a few years, we'll have to go even further into debt to buy new printing presses to keep up with demand.


But yeah, compared to Medicare alone, SS is child's play.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at August 01, 2015 11:36 AM (xSCb6)

195 Renee Ellmers supposedly had tons of core principles, but they are superseded by her #1 principle, which is kiss Boehner's behind and vote however she is told to. I can't stand the way conservatives go for that.



That stupid bitch should have Breitbart, The Blaze, and Daily Caller shoving a microphone into her face about the Planned Parenthood videos and the bill she helped to kill this spring.

Posted by: buzzion at August 01, 2015 11:36 AM (zt+N6)

196
Fun Fact: The Fox loser debate for those that can't make the Top 10 cut has been shortened to 1 hour, so -- about 5 minutes or so of airtime for each candidate.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 01, 2015 11:37 AM (kdS6q)

197 Don't know if Fiornina should actually be the nominee (tho she's probably the one that Hillary! would least like to run against) but the fact that she's only at 1% is ridiculous.

Posted by: Jon at August 01, 2015 11:38 AM (HA+/6)

198 Nood.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 01, 2015 11:43 AM (rCmeG)

199 which advisers you sign up, determines your course of action, hence Schmidt, Rollins, who ran Bachmann into the ground, having badmouthed before hand, Murphy who is doing the same to Jeb,

Posted by: admiral marcus at August 01, 2015 11:44 AM (0u/CC)

200 Which is almost like saying you knew somebody from Sodom who was buggering his neighbor's children, but to be fair, everyone in town was like that back then.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 01, 2015 09:54 AM (Dj0WE)

Yep, just because everyone was doing it isn't an excuse. And they are still doing it. H1-B was supposed to be to fill talent gaps at the high end. If you are training your replacement then it's all about wages and pliability.

Posted by: WOPR at August 01, 2015 11:50 AM (nRvEn)

201 you know why i like fiorina?....she is focusing on issues....and destroying the media when they ask stupid questions.....

i don't have a problem with her tenure at hp.....

thank you ynot for putting this stuff together....

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at August 01, 2015 11:51 AM (0O7c5)

202 I like Carley, but this is Politics in 2015, and nothing is as it appears.

Someone in the RNC has set her out to be the attack dog against Hillary, since none of the men can do it (or at least do it justice) without being called sexist by the MFM.

She has a pretty low chance of winning, given her questionable history as a CEO and zero electoral office wins to her credit.

But she makes a great foil to Hillary and I really like her answers to the press.

Also, she may actually looking for the Veep slot to balance the ticket and the whole first historic woman thing.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 01, 2015 11:56 AM (laMCB)

203 Y-not, thank you for all the work you do gathering information on the candidates. Really, I hope you know how much I (we all) appreciate it.

Fiorina's on my list of candidates I could vote for in the general presidential election. (Bush and Christie are not.)

Posted by: Mindy at August 01, 2015 11:57 AM (dg8OI)

204 Posted by: PrincetonAl at August 01, 2015 11:31 AM (0v6Aj)

Well, she is definitely a better businessman than Trump.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 01, 2015 11:59 AM (laMCB)

205 First of all, enough already. There are enough candidates. It's getting silly.

The thing I like about Carly is her ability to thoughtfully articulate her beliefs while shredding that of her opponents. She handles the press masterfully. Her remarks and commercials about Hillary are simply devastating. I love it when she points out that Hillary has never really accomplished anything--every significant job in her resume was the poisoned fruit of her marriage of convenience and once given those jobs, she promptly did a sloppy and incompetent job.

As for running her in the VP slot against Hillary for President, that buys us very little. They will easily make the case that those mean old Republican womyn haters can only let a womyn have second place.

I could vote for her and donate to her. No on Bush, Christie, Graham, and most of the others. Carly, Cruz, and Trump seem to be the only ones who want to hit hard enough to win.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at August 01, 2015 12:23 PM (kXoT0)

206 I would never vote for Fiorina. Having had the misfortune to live through one of the most embarrassing election debacles in California, her qualifications for the senate race in 2010 were:

- she's a woman!!!!
- she can self-fund!!!
- her business experience!!!
- she's an "inclusive" conservative!!!
- backed 100% by CA/DC GOPe!!!

Seriously, the idiot GOPe thought Fiorina posed a serious threat to Boxer because she was a woman - men can't run against women in CA dontchaknow, cause they'll come across as big fat meanies. They also thought her cancer was a big plus - made her totes relatable. Plus, she had a lot of money.

To choose to back someone with her background at HP, in the biggest tech state was effin' brilliant, and totally explains why the Republican party in CA is dead, dead, dead.

She was BFF with McCain and his cronies, and was backed by the CA GOPe/RSC because she had a lot of money and could self-fund her campaign. They wouldn't have to waste any money supporting a candidate with actual experience and principles (who were conservative - conservatives don't win in California!!!) like the two other guys running, Campbell and DeVore.

She even bought a townhouse in DC to court all the important people - all the usual suspects - politicians, lobbyists, etc. Ah, yes, the perfect outsider.

She could not hold a candle to Chuck DeVore or Tom Campbell (those fringe conservatives), but she was the chosen one. Money, connections, not conservative! - all winning platforms in the eyes of CA/DC cronies.

She's a fake; the only genuine thing about her is her opportunism. She's a wannabe political lifer with a bad work history who can't get a job in the real world.

She's GOPe personified.

Posted by: Joanne at August 01, 2015 12:28 PM (indTK)

207 @176 Fiorina went in to the fever swamp of the view where Goldberg and others tried their best to trip her up. She handled them like a fine wine and received many applause from the dimwits in the audience. No stupid Mc Cain moment on race at all. She was awesome and schooled those that had the capacity to be taught.
---------------------

The last question from the public on the Reagan Library video is from a concern troll friend of Mr. Moo Moo. "I like the Republican position toward business, but I like all the choices the Democrats offer with regard to things like abortion and same sex marriage." It's a pretty obvious "gotcha" question. Either she obviously dodges the question and doesn't answer anything the person brought up, or she looks like a Republican grinch who is trying to restrict what people can do. A third option, of course, is to come out in favor of those "choices", which will alienate her with the SoCons.

Fiorina handles it beautifully.

First, she talks about School Choice, and how the Republicans are trying to offer a popular choice that the Democrats are trying to restrict. Then she reaffirms that she's pro-Life. Finally, she attacks crony capitalism. In essence, she endorses choices for the public, reaffirms her personal standards of morality, and takes a swipe at the popular belief that Republicans are supine wherever big business is involved.

Posted by: junior at August 01, 2015 12:39 PM (3m3mw)

208 She's going nowhere. Maybe Trump will put her in some advisory position.

Posted by: AC at August 01, 2015 12:41 PM (TzeLs)

209 "men can't run against women in CA dontchaknow, cause they'll come across as big fat meanies."

It was true. Her campaign this time shows a lot of learning from that experience. Meg Whitman lost her race for governor and California is heading down the toilet.

Posted by: Mike K at August 01, 2015 01:52 PM (5namt)

210 Posted by: Joanne at August 01, 2015 12:28 PM

"I would never vote for CF" Thanks, Joanne, for the detail. My sentiments exactly -- but I don't mind her talking clearly. All the others do is talk, too, then they betray us. At least she talks good! Most of the others do not.

Posted by: pyromancer76 at August 01, 2015 02:45 PM (zvcr8)

211 I'm not a RINO cunt.

Posted by: Carly at August 01, 2015 02:57 PM (XzRw1)

212 H1B's as far the eye can see !

Posted by: Carly at August 01, 2015 02:59 PM (XzRw1)

213 Cruz is an extremist.

Posted by: Carly at August 01, 2015 03:01 PM (XzRw1)

214 HP for thee TPP for me.

Posted by: Carly at August 01, 2015 03:02 PM (XzRw1)

215 51
It's happened twice. I'll be sitting in my living room and here it
start up. When I check it out it's printing a job that I had long since
forgotten about.


I think the word for that is printergeist.

Posted by: Anachronda at August 01, 2015 04:06 PM (o78gS)

216 119
And despite the mention in
her bio of the increased number of patents under her tenure, I really
can't think of anything innovative coming out of HP since she took over...


That's because one of the first things she did was spin off the innovative part of the company into Agilent.

Posted by: Anachronda at August 01, 2015 04:27 PM (o78gS)

217 104
I think Chelsea should have married a Bush. It would have been the
perfect confluence of suck with both royal families combining into one
useless pairing. They could run for president against each other in
2024
give birth to the Kwisatz Haderach.


fixt

Posted by: Anachronda at August 01, 2015 04:29 PM (o78gS)

218 "That's because one of the first things she did was spin off the innovative part of the company into Agilent."

I worked at the part of HP that became Agilent, leaving about 5 years before Carly took over. While the Agilent split took place shortly after she became CEO, it had been in the works for a while and my impression was that it was going to be a done deal for whoever the board selected to lead the "new" HP.

Most of what Carly did during her 5 years heading HP was done with the support of the BoD, in particular longtime HP insider Dick Hackborn who had previously lost a power struggle with Carly's predecessor Lew Platt. Carly was fired when she lost Hackborn's confidence.

Posted by: FOAF at August 01, 2015 05:17 PM (p0JMG)

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