One Writer At Reason Is Actually Able to Condemn Coercion and Witch-Finding Without Equivocation

Will wonders never cease!

Someone at an allegedly libertarian magazine, actually, get this, standing up for liberty, and against totalitarianism, bullying, and Witch-Finding!

The bad news, for those of us on the suddenly victorious side of the gay marriage debate, is that too many people are acting like sore winners, not merely content with the revolutionary step of removing state discrimination against same-sex couples in the legal recognition of marriage, but seeking to use state power to punish anyone who refuses to lend their business services to wedding ceremonies they find objectionable. That's not persuasion, that's force, and force tends to be the anti-persuasion among those who are on the receiving end of it.

Jonathan Rauch had a great piece for Reason two years ago about free speech and gay rights, arguing persuasively that when a minority is hopelessly outnumbered both in public opinion and in law, maximal free expression (and I would add, free association) is their most potent weapon--often, it's all they've got. To fight uphill all these long decades, then get to the top, only to start wielding majoritarianism against the suddenly disfavored minority position? That's ugly stuff.

His news hook here is a state senator who says there's "no place for that kind of thinking" in his town.

Mollie Hemingway wrote a year ago about Reason's strange "ambivalence" on intimidation, Witch-Hunting, and group enforced groupthink.

Too many writers there seem more enamored of gay marriage than liberty itself. Check your masthead, guys -- you're not Gay Men's Health Crisis. Your masthead identifies you as being in favor of liberty first and foremost.

She recounts Havel's story of the Greengrocer and the thought police.

To explain, letís revisit an old essay by Vaclav Havel, the Czech playwright, poet, dissident and eventual president....

"The Power of the Powerless," written under a communist regime in 1978, is his landmark essay about dissent....

"The post-totalitarian system demands conformity, uniformity, and discipline," Havel wrote, using the term he preferred over "dictatorship" for the complex system of social control experienced in Czechoslovakia. We also have a system that is demanding conformity, uniformity and discipline -- it's not just about marriage law, to be honest. Itís really about something much bigger -- crushing the belief that the sexes are distinct in deep and meaningful ways that contribute to human flourishing...

To explain how dissent works, Havel introduced the manager of a hypothetical fruit-and-vegetable shop who places in his window, among the onions and carrots, the slogan: "Workers of the world, unite!" He's not actually enthusiastic about the sign's message. It's just one of the things that people in a post-totalitarian system do even if they "never think about" what it means. He does it because everyone does it. It's what you do to get along in life and live "in harmony with society."

....

The subtext of the grocerís sign is "I do what I must do. I behave in the manner expected of me." It protects him from supervisors above and informants below.

Havel is skeptical of ideology. He says that dictatorships can just use raw power, but "the more complex the mechanisms of power become, the larger and more stratified the society they embrace, and the longer they have operated historically Ö the greater the importance attached to the ideological excuse." We don't have a dictatorship, obviously, but we do have complex mechanisms of power and larger and more stratified society.

In any case, individuals need not believe the lies of an ideology so much as behave as though they do, or at least tolerate them in silence or get along with those who work with them. "For by this very fact, individuals confirm the system, fulfill the system, make the system, are the system," Havel says.

The fake libertarians at Reason -- which is most of them -- seem to believe, with a couple of honorable exceptions, that this form of intimidation-by-mob-assault is actually healthy free expression -- so long as it enforces the social codes and taboos they favor.

I think Nick Gillespie would have quite another opinion of it were this form of mobbing directed at couples in gay marriages.

Nick Gillespie, and others at Reason, seem to believe, strangely, in the persuasive powers of the Mob.

Newsflash, moral imbeciles and slaves to faddish leftwing desiderata-- Mobs do not "persuade." They do not "argue." They do not present a series of statements and a chain of reasoning intended to appeal to the intellect.

Mobs shout. Mobs demean. Mobs threaten -- they threaten to burn people's shops to the ground, and they offer a $5 donation "for your funeral expenses."

Mobs do not appeal to the cool, empowered intellectual side of the brain. No -- they appeal to the fear-based parts of the targets' brains, every mammal's fear of being cast out of the pack, and they encourage the violence and anger centers of the mob's brain.

This is the salutary form of speech Nick Gillespie keeps finding himself defending.

The only thing he can criticize here is conservatives targeted by mob outrage and threats "bitching" about being threatened.

The mob tactics, he supports reservedly. Where he claims someone crosses the line to become Free Speech Villains is to complain about being so targeted.

"Reason." A magazine for "liberty."

Right.

Posted by: Ace at 04:15 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Matt Welch wrote this article, which explains why it's eminently sensible.

Posted by: Jeff B., RINO Scum at April 02, 2015 04:18 PM (ewYO6)

2 Shorter: moral cowardice

Someone might their lives inconvenient.

Posted by: Fen at April 02, 2015 04:18 PM (zhb21)

3

I think Nick Gillespie would have quite another opinion of it were this form of mobbing directed at couples in gay marriages. the antiquated Goth look.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:18 PM (IXrOn)

4 Mike Pence, "Oh yeah! I'll show you. I'll just sell out all of our convictions."

http://tinyurl.com/k48xn3s

This guy is probably going to run for president.

No, I assure you we have only the absolute best idiots in our establishment.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 02, 2015 04:19 PM (BZAd3)

5 The funny part? I'm not even convinced that the pro-gay marriage side is *really* the majority on this. I think what we're seeing is a combination of loaded polling and social mau-mauing that only makes it appear to be such. I doubt there's been a 20 point swing in two years.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at April 02, 2015 04:19 PM (YYJjz)

6 This is an issue I've changed my mind on based on things I've read here. (Yeah, persuasive argument on the internet made me re-think something. I know, right?).

I was on the public accommodations side, mostly because I'm reflexively pro-gay rights.

But I have self-identified as libertarian for a quarter of a century and the religious expression side is more pro-liberty.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 02, 2015 04:19 PM (JtwS4)

7 Yeah, I agree that Nick Gillespie has jumped the shark here.
His own personal animosity towards the religious is really showing.

And the error of equating "the market working!" with howling fascist mobs of conformity of acceptance and not realizing they're abandoning the core libertarian ideal of an open and tolerant society of differences.

Posted by: gwelf at April 02, 2015 04:21 PM (nyxv/)

8 Reason magazine died when it was co-opted by the cheeba-monkey.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 02, 2015 04:21 PM (kZVsz)

9 I am sick of the whole "equality" bullshit he talks about in the first paragraph.

Same-sex couples are at a huge advantage. We have marriage because opposite sex couples must take extraordinary precautions not to reproduce. Maybe they're sterile, but unless they're old, they have to take extraordinary steps to discover it.

Heterosexuals (particularly women) are handicapped and marriage exists in part to deal with that handicap.

I'm really sorry gays seem to have this mental illness that they require psychological validation in the form of aping the most heteronormative institution known to mankind.

If we didn't reproduce sexually, marriage would not exist.

"Reason" is not "opposition to whatever icky Christians think".

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:21 PM (L2xDv)

10 Too often 'libertarian' is just acceptance of the liberal point of view.

And it's too often knee-jerk anti-religious.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:22 PM (MMC8r)

11 when you lose NASCAR and Walmart it gets a bit lonely

Posted by: righter at April 02, 2015 04:22 PM (ik+tD)

12 Can I still think Veronique de Rugy is strangely hot? Cause she is, I think it's the accent.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 02, 2015 04:22 PM (7Nq2G)

13 This next Tuesday will be the ballerina school dropout's son's first vote. So will he be a metrosexual like the dropout, or go Macho for Chuy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (EMi53)

14 It is good to see that someone realizes how dangerous stirring up a mob is. There is a subtle distinction between leading the mob and being pursued by it.

And the mob can change targets awfully fast.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Engraved Irasicbility 25% Off at the Outrage Outlet! at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (hLRSq)

15 1.6% of the population and 75% of the threads?

Anyone else see the problem but me?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (rDqRv)

16 Death Camp of Tolerance was oddly prescient, btw.

Smoking bans were the beta test, this is the gold release.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (kZVsz)

17 How does 'protected class' square with Libertarianism? It deliberately establishes special rights and status to the detriment of non-protected classes.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (MMC8r)

18 Why is Reason considered the go-to place for Libertarian thought on the web? For that matter, why is Mises.org? Both suck ass and there are plenty of other places to read.

Posted by: Bigby's Extended Pinky at April 02, 2015 04:24 PM (3ZtZW)

19
The funny part? I'm not even convinced that the pro-gay marriage side is *really* the majority on this

--

It isn't, it is a small minority.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (dquK7)

20 1.6% of the population and 75% of the threads?

Anyone else see the problem but me?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (rDqRv)



I suppose we could talk about unicorns and rainbows.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (IXrOn)

21 Here's the thing.

I'm a fan of reason, and especially the reason.tv interviews. Not so much because I agree with everyone over there, but because it's nice to see a "totally different" perspective.

But what you're missing, ace, is that no matter what these self-described libertarians political views are, the gay marriage issue to them is really an anti- religion issue.

And as you know, many libertarians are some flavor of atheist (like me), and for many of them being anti religion is more important than anything else.

Because the "atheist" part is their core identity in the same way an evangelical christian is a christian first and a conservative second.

So they see this as a way to say "na na na na na" to Christians. The liberty thing... eh, well, cmon, its too much fun to beat up on christians, you can't expect them to be all philosophical about it!

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (AkOaV)

22 The funny part? I'm not even convinced that the pro-gay marriage side is *really* the majority on this.

It is as long it's a "being left alone" thing.

Now we're at the other end of the spectrum and people are starting to realize that, thanks to our fascistic judiciary, we don't get to decide exactly what the parameters of SSM are.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (L2xDv)

23 " is that too many people are acting like sore winners, not merely content with the revolutionary step of removing state discrimination against same-sex couples in the legal recognition of marriage, but seeking to use state power to punish anyone who refuses to lend their business services to wedding ceremonies they find objectionable. That's not persuasion, that's force,"

Dude, I have news for you:

Coercion was ALWAYS the plan.

I too voted for gay marriage in CA in 2008 (i.e. I voted against Prop , but I wised up shortly thereafter when the gay mafia went berserk upon losing and announced it was Coercion Turtles All The Way Down.

Glad Mr. Reason woke up eventually, but it has been obvious for 7 years now, and discoverable for 25 years.

Posted by: zombie at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (K4YiS)

24 The damn thing is, it's not majoritarianism triumphant. There's no consensus for the current situation. It's pure political power backed by the threat of police action.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (evdj2)

25 They don't pay enough, otherwise he'd be deep in the dank bud.
The bud is like the water-soluble opium crystals that the vanguard of the NAMBLA movement favored. Pinned and nodding, I set out to find Obama's L'il Syed.

Posted by: Nver been there, never done that: how would I know? at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (mVY1M)

26 "Reason." A magazine for "liberty."

I "get" it.

Posted by: Winston Smith at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (8ZskC)

27 Prop = Proposition 8

Posted by: zombie at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (K4YiS)

28

Is Bill Whittle a part of this mess?
I hope not.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:26 PM (IXrOn)

29 The only difference between Big-L Losertarians and Post-Modern DemocRATs - the order of importance they place on the goals ofthe total subjugation of Christians and free drugs for all.

On reconsideration, they're not exactly mutually-exclusive goals (and by "not exactly mutually-exclusive" I mean "supporting").

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (cL79m)

30 1.6% of the population and 75% of the threads?

Anyone else see the problem but me?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (rDqRv)


I suppose we could talk about unicorns and rainbows.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (IXrOn)


We keep letting the liberals set the agenda and priorities and then wonder why we get beat in Elections?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (rDqRv)

31 Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:25 PM (dquK7)


No, that's not true.

It's beyond difficult to get accurate polling on this subject, but I think the gay marriage thing is really just a tiny number of activists on both sides (with more connected ones on the pro-gay marriage side), and a large number of "who gives a shit" people in the middle.

They vaguely support gay marriage because tolerance or whatever, but they're not going to go out of their way to vote FOR it.

Yeah, if it comes up, they'll give the right answer. But they don't really care too much either way.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (AkOaV)

32 Ace is taking names and not taking prisoners today.

Ace's writing is HAWT

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (vPh3W)

33 How does 'protected class' square with Libertarianism?

Very good question. There is an argument for protected classes, but it isn't very libertarian and certainly not as principled as the Reason crowd likes to think of themselves as being.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (L2xDv)

34 The fake libertarians at Reason -- which is most of them -- seem to believe, with a couple of honorable exceptions, that this form of intimidation-by-mob-assault is actually healthy free expression -- so long as it enforces the social codes and taboos they favor.

Isn't this the new definition of 'tolerance?'

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (MMC8r)

35 Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (cL79m)

That's retarded, sir

Posted by: rachel jeantel at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (AkOaV)

36 triumphant. There's no consensus for the current situation. It's pure political power backed by the threat of police action.

It's the union of far left scumbags, media, and corporations that is bringing all the pressure to bear. And the GOP is so dickless they won't fight it.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (dhHd4)

37 Is Liberty still a magazine? When I started reading them in the early 90s Reason was reasonable and Liberty was kind of bat guano.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (JtwS4)

38
But what you're missing, ace, is that no matter what these self-described libertarians political views are, the gay marriage issue to them is really an anti- religion issue.

---

Many people try to dance around the issue, but there it is. People don't want to be reminded of what sin is, or that there are consequences for every action.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:28 PM (dquK7)

39 I am sick of the whole "equality" bullshit he talks about in the first paragraph.



Same-sex couples are at a huge advantage. We have marriage because
opposite sex couples must take extraordinary precautions not to
reproduce. Maybe they're sterile, but unless they're old, they have to
take extraordinary steps to discover it.



Heterosexuals (particularly women) are handicapped and marriage exists in part to deal with that handicap.



I'm really sorry gays seem to have this mental illness that they
require psychological validation in the form of aping the most
heteronormative institution known to mankind.



If we didn't reproduce sexually, marriage would not exist.



"Reason" is not "opposition to whatever icky Christians think".

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:21 PM (L2xDv)
--------------------------------------------------
Well said. Women forgo economic production and take on the task of bearing and rearing children. This is the basic fact of biology and civilization that 99.9999% of marriage customs and marriage laws and state benefits are centered around.

Posted by: gwelf at April 02, 2015 04:28 PM (nyxv/)

40 We keep letting the liberals set the agenda and priorities and then wonder why we get beat in Elections?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (rDqRv)


I know.
But it is good to discuss it.

We would have never gotten Ace's epic post today. It will go down in history, and be used by many to fight.

People need to breath in between it all.
And live life.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:28 PM (IXrOn)

41 "But I have self-identified as libertarian for a quarter of a century and the religious expression side is more pro-liberty."

Welcome to the side of h8.

Posted by: Lauren at April 02, 2015 04:28 PM (MYCIw)

42 Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (L2xDv)

Clearly the answer is that its an anathema to libertarians.

See what I wrote above as to why I think most reason writers are taking the anti-liberty position on this one.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:28 PM (AkOaV)

43 A little mood music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3__NN16uoXk

Posted by: The Hat Rules at April 02, 2015 04:29 PM (0Ew3K)

44 As pot loses its power as a political issue, I suspect the libertarian movement will just shift full leftist except for the few philosophically libertarian folk out there.

Too many "libertarians" these days seem to have the attitude that the government is just fine when it interferes with other people.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:29 PM (39g3+)

45 Ace - I must say I am proud of your recent posts directed toward Reason. I like Reason and frequent the site often. But I am not a doctrinaire libertarian. Libertarians have an overly simplified code of life that is simply not backed by history or civilization. But our country would be better if we were (in general) more libertarian.

I would love to see you and Nick Gillespie do a series of point / counterpoint - maybe posting on each others site so that the commentors on both side can weigh in.

You should try to get Nick to engage you in this manner.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:29 PM (gmeXX)

46 At least the fucking commies stab me in the front. It's my putative allies stabbing me in the back that hurts.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (evdj2)

47 Yeah, never been a big fan of Reason. We have different values: gay marriage, religion, national defense.

The funny thing is, I used to identify as Libertarian until I listened to Libertarians.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (b7IT1)

48 The fake libertarians at Reason -- which is most of them -- seem to
believe, with a couple of honorable exceptions, that this form of
intimidation-by-mob-assault is actually healthy free expression -- so long as it enforces the social codes and taboos they favor.


I'm not a libertarian because I think there is no grounding principle that can keep libertarians as a whole from falling down this pit.

If men were angels, we wouldn't need government. We're not angels, and we do need a form of government. We need to protect individuals from the collective, but we can't count on individuals using their self-interest to protect those rights. Too much temptation to twist things to maximize personal liberty at the expense of others.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (0NdlF)

49 Listen, I'm gonna have buttsecs and I need the whole world to know, accept and validate me having things in my lower alimentary tract.

Pay attention to my buttsecing!

Posted by: The Prissie Squad at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (+hB3s)

50 I suppose we could talk about unicorns and rainbows .
Posted by: artisanal 'ette
----------------------

I can tell you that unicorn ear wax makes an excellent car polish. I have ordered my detailer to use it exclusively on my Bugatti. Sure it comes at a premium price...., but I'm worth it.

Posted by: Mr. Cud Chewer at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (F2IAQ)

51 "Newsflash, moral imbeciles and slaves to faddish leftwing desiderata..."

Ace isn't just on fire -- he's in full supernova mode!

Posted by: zombie at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (K4YiS)

52 Is it kind of cruel to tell ol' Nick (the Reason editor....not the denizen of Hell that he doesn't believe in) that he's getting kind of long in the tooth for that leather jacket, anyway?

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (h8UWI)

53 That's retarded, sir

Posted by: rachel jeantel at April 02, 2015 04:27 PM (AkOaV)


Rachel, Rachel, Rachel. You're so stupid you wouldn't know stupid if you hit yourself on the head.

Losertarian Goal 1A - Free drugs for all
Losertarian Goal 1B - Elimniate Christianity

Post-Modern DemocRAT Goal 1A - Eliminate Christianity
Post-Modern DemocRAT Goal 1B - Free drugs for all

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (cL79m)

54 Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:28 PM (dquK7)

Well, sin, or whatever you want to call it.

But I'm more of a Penn Jillette atheist -- it's not that I'm against religion, I just think that "faith" is a thing you have to actively do. And I don't actively have "faith," thus I am not a theist.

But that definition would tend to chomp up a lot of "christians" who havent seen the inside of a church since bell bottoms were in (the first time)

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (AkOaV)

55 People don't want to be reminded of what sin is, or that there are consequences for every action.

-----

You must not be Catholic?

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (gmeXX)

56 There has been a definite general trend in the world of "libertarianism" that had a big spike after 2000 as a number of disaffected liberals signed up after what they felt was an "establishment overthrown election" (which is horseshit).

Given that it's a small community, it didn't take much to make a big difference.

Also, Libertarianism has pushed for recruitment on college campuses, and thus got a bunch of leftists in doing the old Long March thing, as well as reflexive anti-religionists and various other anti-this-or-that-ers (the persistent band of anti-semites that swirl around the group, for example).

If you became a Libertarian in the 80s or 90s (or 70s or 60s or 50s), you might have a hard time recognizing it now - though none of the factions involved are really that new.

Just to drag it out more, there's also the fact that we're talking about "a publication" here, and a lot of those involved in that field have a particular ideological bent - journalism and publishing industries have leaned left and are getting more brazenly so.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (bLnSU)

57 Hey moron lawyers-

would this work?

Could the owner of a cake shop or pizza parlor impose an Imposition Fee?

If your event imposes on his beliefs, then you get charged an extra very high exorbitant fee.


As in-

"You want me to cater your gay wedding? No problem, but since that would impose on my personal beliefs-

you will be charged an extra $2000.00 Imposition Fee.

Same as I would charge you if you wanted me to cater your wedding to two donkeys and a turtle.

Now, how many pepperoni pizzas would you like?"


I think this gets around all legal/ moral/etc issues,

but perhaps I'm wrong.

What say you?

Posted by: naturalfake at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (0cMkb)

58 It caters the gay wedding. It does this whenever it is told.

It caters the gay wedding or else it gets the hose again.

Yes, it will, Precious, won't it? It will get the hose!

Posted by: Ken in NH at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (MqjGP)

59 14 It is good to see that someone realizes how dangerous stirring up a mob is. There is a subtle distinction between leading the mob and being pursued by it.

And the mob can change targets awfully fast.


Tell me about it.

Posted by: Zombie Maximilien Robespierre at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (CXdLL)

60 You should try to get Nick to engage you in this manner.
Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:29 PM (gmeXX)

Ha

Ace: Nick, you ignorant slut
Nick: Silver dimes baby

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (vPh3W)

61 I smell a reuniting of Ace and Jeff from Protein Wisdom

OUTLAW RADIO baby...

Liberty with a capital L and a double dose of F and U for the establishment...

Posted by: phreshone at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (kFxpe)

62 Losertarian Goal 1A - Free drugs for all
Losertarian Goal 1B - Elimniate Christianity

Post-Modern DemocRAT Goal 1A - Eliminate Christianity
Post-Modern DemocRAT Goal 1B - Free drugs for all
Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (cL79m)

No option where free drugs are given to Christians?

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (+hB3s)

63 Seems Gofundme can't keep the goal in front of the contributions.

Posted by: Mr. Cud Chewer at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (F2IAQ)

64 Russian saber rattling.

http://tinyurl.com/mr3498d

How fast will NATO back down?

Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (sWgE+)

65 >>And the mob can change targets awfully fast.


See Palm Sunday
View Good Friday
Posted by: A Christian

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (vPh3W)

66 Das ist die fragestullung.
You ldt the fucking Commie-fag-junkies rule th internets?
Gosh.
Wut a surprise.

Posted by: Nver been there, never done that: how would I know? at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (mVY1M)

67 Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:31 PM (cL79m)

sock off...

Come on, you know that's silly.

The fact that libertarians and liberals happen to land on the same "ends" in a few situations does not mean their "means" have anything in common at all.

Drugs are a liberty thing to libertarians (you can see that, right?) while they're a wedge issue / drive toward killing the family and culture / way to appeal to the yutes for liberals.

Also, liberals pretend to be anti-drug war, but every time they're in power they do nothing to stop it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (AkOaV)

68 5 The funny part? I'm not even convinced that the pro-gay marriage side is *really* the majority on this. I think what we're seeing is a combination of loaded polling and social mau-mauing that only makes it appear to be such. I doubt there's been a 20 point swing in two years.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus


Right you are.

All polls are "push-polls" -- designed to enforce normative conformity, not measure public opinion. Honest polling has gone the way of the typewriter repair industry: obsolete, forgotten.

Posted by: zombie at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (K4YiS)

69 Based on the HIV/AIDS outbreak in southeastern Indiana, and the HuffPo's hissy fit about the closing of Planned Parenthood clinics there, it seems plausible that Planned Parenthood was the source of legal injectable prescription drugs being used to hook farm girls into prostitution and human trafficking, before the clinics were shut down.

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (EMi53)

70 I can tell you that unicorn ear wax makes an excellent car polish. I have ordered my detailer to use it exclusively on my Bugatti. Sure it comes at a premium price...., but I'm worth it.
Posted by: Mr. Cud Chewer at April 02, 2015 04:30 PM (F2IAQ)



Mon dieu!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (IXrOn)

71 Off with painfully pretentious ruminant sock.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (F2IAQ)

72 I hate this. It's so fricking exhausting. I'm tired of all the bullshit and I really just want to be left alone.


And the worst part of admitting all that is that I *know* that's what the mob wants. They want me to be tired of fighting with them so I will just shut up, lay down, and give in. And that's why these idjits win: most people don't want to spend their life fighting this crap. They, like me, just want to be left alone to live as they see fit in peace. And most folks will do whatever it is they must to do to or say whatever they must say so the mob will leave them alone.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (KkVB6)

73 @14 It is good to see that someone realizes how dangerous stirring up a mob is. There is a subtle distinction between leading the mob and being pursued by it.

And the mob can change targets awfully fast.
----------------------

I remember one of my high school history teachers talking about the French Revolution. And how, during the Reign of Terror, the new and more radical members of the French legislature would successfully condemn the older members of the legislature. Those condemned members would be executed, and the ones who condemned them would then be condemned in turn by the new and even more radical incoming members of the legislature.

Posted by: junior at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (UWFpX)

74 No option where free drugs are given to Christians?

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (+hB3s)


That's the MKH Gambit.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:34 PM (cL79m)

75 Smoking bans were the beta test, this is the gold release.
Posted by: Chupacabras at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (kZVsz)


--------------------------------------


You're right. Once they saw what they could curtail the liberty a group of people and get lauded for it, the camel toe was in the door.

Smokers have the most longevity of any group to have to deal with the PC-SJW mobs.

Posted by: Soona at April 02, 2015 04:34 PM (/HX7u)

76 In order then that the social compact may not be an empty formula, it tacitly includes the undertaking, which alone can give force to the rest, that whoever refuses to obey the general will shall be compelled to do so by the whole body. This means nothing less than that he will be forced to be free; for this is the condition which, by giving each citizen to his country, secures him against all personal dependence. In this lies the key to the working of the political machine; this alone legitimises civil undertakings, which, without it, would be absurd, tyrannical, and liable to the most frightful abuses.

Posted by: Jean-Jacques Rousseau at April 02, 2015 04:34 PM (gUbkl)

77
I would love to see you and Nick Gillespie do a series of point / counterpoint -


Nick, you ignorant slut.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:34 PM (MMC8r)

78
Dear Mr. Mr. Cud Chewer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0oMQu2id6I

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:35 PM (IXrOn)

79 And the mob can change targets awfully fast.


Tell me about it.
Posted by: Zombie Maximilien Robespierre at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (CXdLL)

A riot is an ugly thing. And I think it is just about time that we had one. As heaven is my witness, he will curse the day that he was born a pizza maker.

Posted by: Inspector Kemp: at April 02, 2015 04:35 PM (+hB3s)

80 You can't get Professor Jeff to stay put long enough to do anything constructive. I like him at his best but Protein Wisdom is too often him throwing a fit about being treated mean and purging the place of co bloggers.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:35 PM (39g3+)

81 All polls are "push-polls" -- designed to enforce normative conformity, not measure public opinion. Honest polling has gone the way of the typewriter repair industry: obsolete, forgotten.
Posted by: zombie
------------------------------
Agree [ ]
Disagree [ ]

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:35 PM (F2IAQ)

82 If pro-gay marriage were the majority, why is it constantly requiring judges to impose it?

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:35 PM (MMC8r)

83 No option where free drugs are given to Christians?

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:32 PM (+hB3s)


They can have all the euthanasia drugs they can take... whether they want them or not.

Posted by: Obamacare Death Panels at April 02, 2015 04:35 PM (0Ew3K)

84 The weird thing for me about Libertarianism is how quickly you get to the edge and invariably seem to go over it. If you put to Libertarians together in a discussion, they quickly have to prove which one is the most Libertarian.

Pinwheels in the eyeballs are the inevitable result.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 02, 2015 04:36 PM (BZAd3)

85 77
I would love to see you and Nick Gillespie do a series of point / counterpoint -

Nick, you ignorant slut.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:34 PM (MMC8r)

See #60

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:36 PM (vPh3W)

86 See Palm Sunday
View Good Friday
Posted by: A Christian
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (vPh3W)

Expect a Messiah
Crucify a Son of Man
Wind up with a Resurrected God-Man

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (+hB3s)

87 Also, liberals pretend to be anti-drug war, but every time they're in power they do nothing to stop it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:33 PM (AkOaV)


Only because the powers conferred by the War on Drugs can (and are) mutated by the libreals into attacking everyone to the right of Che.

Also, see Colorado/Washington State, where the Rats no longer see the need for the pretext of the War on Drugs to use those powers on their enemies.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (cL79m)

88 Is someone envious of my cool leather jacket? 'Cause, ya know, I got a cool leather jacket. It's black.

Posted by: Nicky Gillespee at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (nFdGS)

89 GRAMMAR COP ARREST!

57 "Hey moron lawyers"

REDUNDANT!

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (EMi53)

90 Drugs are a liberty thing to libertarians (you can see that, right?)

Well, ideally and philosophically but for too many, perhaps most, its more "I want to engage in my vice and you shouldn't be able to stop me or make me feel bad about it"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (39g3+)

91

Have a good evening.
Too much fun to have tonight.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (IXrOn)

92 $236K

Quarter mil by dinner.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (MMC8r)

93
"Newsflash, moral imbeciles and slaves to faddish leftwing desiderata..."

I'm gonna need a bigger dictionary.

Posted by: YIKES! at April 02, 2015 04:38 PM (txASZ)

94 88 Is someone envious of my cool leather jacket? 'Cause, ya know, I got a cool leather jacket. It's black.
Posted by: Nicky Gillespee at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (nFdGS)

Nah, the sweat stains in the armpits are gross

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:38 PM (+hB3s)

95 Is someone envious of my cool leather jacket? 'Cause, ya know, I got a cool leather jacket. It's black.

Nick 'The Fonz' Gillespie

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:38 PM (MMC8r)

96
Well, ideally and philosophically but for too many, perhaps most, its more "I want to engage in my vice and you shouldn't be able to stop me or make me feel bad about it"
---

Emphasis mine

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:38 PM (dquK7)

97 Too much fun to have tonight.



Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:37 PM (IXrOn)

Take pictures.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:38 PM (sWgE+)

98 Regarding faux libertarians and their inability to comprehend freedom of conscience, freedome of association, etc., there's a video of Penn Jillette of Penn Teller and Bullshit fame on CNN captioned "No one's forcing you to have gay sex."

Posted by: Xander Crews at April 02, 2015 04:39 PM (G30fw)

99 Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 02, 2015 04:36 PM (BZAd3)

Well, I find most people who call themselves "libertarians" only have a vague idea of what it even means, they just think they're smarter than those stupid binary conservatives and liberals. Bill Maher, for example, called himself a libertarian for years.

Which is why I don't tend to use the label that often... but I guess I'm a man without a label. Conservative doesn't really totally fit... and Liberal no longer means what it used to... and "classic liberal" sounds too douchey...

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:39 PM (AkOaV)

100 @75 You're right. Once they saw what they could curtail the liberty a group of people and get lauded for it, the camel toe was in the door.
-----------------

Wait, what?

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't generally encourage women to use that portion of their anatomy to hold a door open...



Posted by: junior at April 02, 2015 04:40 PM (UWFpX)

101 Zap - $237K now. We should start a pool to call the time of the $250K mark.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:40 PM (F2IAQ)

102 I saw Desiderata at Lilith Faire, that's why I'm a lesbian today

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:40 PM (+hB3s)

103 You're an evil monster who hates children and the poor.

It's the tactic of carpet-bombing the center and then claiming it when everyone else evacuates.

No, it makes no *sense* to engage in death threats and insanely hyperbolic overreaction to idle speculation by a pizaa shop in nowheresville that they might not cater a gay wedding, BUT it is a tactic that has worked so the left will use it.

The only ones left on the field are the winners, even if the field is burned and salted.

*Then* you stalk around and shoot the survivors, as they have done since Rousseau.

The fact that it works is why we can't have anything nice. No I don't have a way to fix that, unless enough people realize that it *is* a tactic that is destructive and don't cooperate with it, which is unlikely because the press, the bureaucracy, and most of the politicians are fully on board with it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 02, 2015 04:40 PM (bLnSU)

104 Well, I find most people who call themselves "libertarians" only have a vague idea of what it even means, they just think they're smarter than those stupid binary conservatives and liberals. Bill Maher, for example, called himself a libertarian for years.

Which is why I don't tend to use the label that often... but I guess I'm a man without a label. Conservative doesn't really totally fit... and Liberal no longer means what it used to... and "classic liberal" sounds too douchey...

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:39 PM (AkOaV)


Which is why I reserve the Big-L Losertarian label for those of the Losertari...er...Libertarian Party.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:40 PM (cL79m)

105 Bill Maher, for example, called himself a libertarian for years.

Breitbart's call out on that was hilarious.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:40 PM (MMC8r)

106 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (kff5f)

107 ace.....niiiiiiiiice.

That left a mark.

I stopped reading Reason 3 years ago.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (V+kmg)

108 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (kff5f)

109 But I'm more of a Penn Jillette atheist -- it's not that I'm against religion, I just think that "faith" is a thing you have to actively do. And I don't actively have "faith," thus I am not a theist.

I respect this position a lot.

It's the being against religion that I call the Atheist's Delusion. It comes from (a) a sure and unyielding faith that religion is false and (b) this is highly damaging to the health of humanity.

I.e.
(1) Ban all religion
(2) ???
(3) Utopia

In the enlightenment, many atheist thinkers were not comfortable with the idea of a wholly atheistic populace. They thought it might lead to a catastrophic sociopathic nightmare. Like the Reign of Terror or Soviet Russia or Mao's China or the Khmer Rouge or...

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (L2xDv)

110 Posted by: Xander Crews at April 02, 2015 04:39 PM (G30fw)

Yeah, like many principled libertarian (and he is one on 99% of the issues), he has a big blind spot when it comes to anti- christian stuff.

He's all for liberty, except you know, when it "sticks it" to the christians. Then it's a little negotiable.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (AkOaV)

111
ISIS has mob tactics. Does Gillespie support?

Anyway, Welch is correct, the intolerant bigotry is coming from gay supporters now. They are not the victims, they are the perpetrators.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (ODxAs)

112
there's a video of Penn Jillette of Penn Teller and Bullshit fame on CNN captioned "No one's forcing you to have gay sex."

--

No, just forcing you to provide goods and services for their celebration, and soon forcing your church to officiate.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (dquK7)

113 "ALL YOUR LIBERTY ARE BELONG TO US!"

Posted by: Zero Wing at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (eOpVe)

114 there's a video of Penn Jillette of Penn Teller and Bullshit fame on CNN captioned "No one's forcing you to have gay sex."

--

yet

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (/2E+M)

115 and Liberal no longer means what it used to... and "classic liberal" sounds too douche

Just today I took a "how liberal are you" quiz at the Frankfurter Allgemeine. Had a picture of Che on it.

So, of course, Euros are socialist, this test is going to be blown away by how right wing I am. At the end it says "congratulations, you're a true liberal. You stick to your convictions and don't worry that people are going to call you mean or hateful".

And that's when I remembered that "liberal" in German means roughly "classical liberal" in American, and is not a left/socialist term at all.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (JtwS4)

116 Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (L2xDv)

Yeah, I have a ton of respect for religious people. Maybe even a little envy. It must be nice going through life with the kind of serenity that people (seem) to get from religion.

I just don't believe.

That doesn't mean I'm judging them or think that they're wrong TO believe. I think the whole question of God is really unanswerable. And while my gut tends to say there is no God, I can no more prove that then a religious person can prove that there is one, so why argue about it?

And on the whole, religion (especially Christianity) has been a force for good in the world.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (AkOaV)

117 $238K, 8400 donors, 22 hours They will make $250K before 24 hours

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (0FSuD)

118 That last excerpt describes just about every HOA I've ever been a part of.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (CVTpV)

119 There are days when I am thoroughly pleased to not have any idea who or what people like Nick Gillespie are/is.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (TOk1P)

120 No, just forcing you to provide goods and services for their celebration, and soon forcing your church to officiate.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (dquK7)


And forcing your male children to participate in womenless pageants.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (cL79m)

121 No, just forcing you to provide goods and services for their celebration, and soon forcing your church to officiate.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (dquK7)

What they are going to end up doing is forcing churches to go underground.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (sWgE+)

122 there's a video of Penn Jillette of Penn Teller and Bullshit fame on CNN captioned "No one's forcing you to have gay sex."

No one's forcing you to pray at the school benediction, either.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (MMC8r)

123 112

there's a video of Penn Jillette of Penn Teller and Bullshit fame on CNN captioned "No one's forcing you to have gay sex."

--

No, just forcing you to provide goods and services for their celebration, and soon forcing your church to officiate.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:41 PM (dquK7)

penn is wrong on this....i still like him...he levitated me in a show once.....but even if he didn't i still like him.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:44 PM (u8GsB)

124 OT/ But obama did a victory lap today and said he saved the World, but not in those exact words.... He also said if congress stops his "deal" they will destroy the "unity" of Countries He created.... I'm so rage stroking now...

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at April 02, 2015 04:44 PM (Bn6aD)

125 Once they saw what they could curtail the liberty a group of people and get lauded for it, the camel toe was in the door.
Posted by: Soona


A classic example of how a joke can be clever, sophisticated and hilariously juvenile, all at the same time.

Posted by: zombie at April 02, 2015 04:44 PM (K4YiS)

126 Nip - Did Malwarebytes help at all with your computer difficulties?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:44 PM (F2IAQ)

127 The reason I support the bakers et al over the gay mafia is pretty much the same reason I am prolife. If there is an issue where rights are competing (and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that marriage is a right, although I'm not sure I'd go that far) then you go with the one that causes the least injustice.

Bodily autonomy is important, but life is more important.

Nondiscimination is important, but religious freedom is more important.

Posted by: Lauren at April 02, 2015 04:44 PM (MYCIw)

128 Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (JtwS4)

Yeah, we 'conservatives' would have been considered liberals (for liberty) as late as the 1800s. It wasn't until the 1920s that socialists started using "liberal" as their title once the whole "progressive" thing got too closely ties to eugenics and WWI and all of that.

But, they're back to "progressive" now, so hopefully we can steal the word "liberal" back when they're not looking.

I don't think I'm "conservative" at all in the sense it's usually used in Europe.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:45 PM (AkOaV)

129 >>>It's my putative allies stabbing me in the back that hurts.

Well, and that other thing. Not the one is my mouth but the other one. But really, its the lack of maturity that hurts.

Posted by: Bigby's Extended Pinky at April 02, 2015 04:45 PM (3ZtZW)

130 ISIS has mob tactics. Does Gillespie support?

The brownshirts were just market forces.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:45 PM (L2xDv)

131 101 Zap - $237K now. We should start a pool to call the time of the $250K mark.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:40 PM (F2IAQ

Should we start a GoFundMe for the pool prize?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:45 PM (vPh3W)

132 Which is why I don't tend to use the label that often... but I guess I'm a man without a label. Conservative doesn't really totally fit... and Liberal no longer means what it used to... and "classic liberal" sounds too douchey...

-----

I've gone back on this before and finally decided that conservative describes me just fine and is about as accurate as possible.

I no longer say I'm a libertarian because people (right or wrong) here that and think more social libertarian and less economic libertarian. I'm more of the latter.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:45 PM (gmeXX)

133 I'm a fifty year old man with a scalp full of Grecian formula who wears a leather jacket.

That is all.

Posted by: Nick Gillespie at April 02, 2015 04:46 PM (atRDm)

134 @126

Speed up computer, but still getting spam specific to me that somehow by passes my filter. Don't know what it is. Get about three a day.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 04:46 PM (0FSuD)

135 @115 Bandersnatch
"Just today I took a "how liberal are you" quiz at the Frankfurter Allgemeine. Had a picture of Che on it."

Wohnst du hier im Hessen?

Posted by: Buckeye Aborad at April 02, 2015 04:46 PM (E9gGQ)

136 Posted by: BurtTC at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (TOk1P)

hop on reason.tv and look at some of nick's interviews.

I think you'll like him -- at least that part of who he is.

Don't read anything he has to say on religion if you're easily offended.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:46 PM (AkOaV)

137 Nondiscimination is important, but religious freedom is more important.
Posted by: Lauren at April 02, 2015 04:44 PM (MYCIw)

Agreed. The Fed having to compel someone to act contrary to their beliefs has should be a high fence to jump.

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (/2E+M)

138 The Gaystapo isn't attacking "discrimination" as they come across it. They're preemptively seeking out potential thought criminals. (They didn't stumble into a bakery that won't cater their gay wedding. They called ahead.)

Take the Memories Pizza kerfuffle. The reporter didn't walk into some random place. She walked into a place with Christian scriptures on the wall, a place that would never be asked to cater a gay wedding, and asked if they would cater a gay wedding.

I'm reminded of an old joke from East Germany:

A man is sitting on a bench minding his own business when another man comes and sits down next to him. The second man says, "Good afternoon, comrade."

The first man looks him over suspiciously for a moment before replying, "Good afternoon, comrade."

The second man continues, "Comrade, I was wondering what is your opinion of Comrade President Honecker."

The first man pauses before answering, "Comrade, I imagine that my opinion of Comrade President Honecker is the same as yours."

"Comrade," replies the second man, "I'm afraid you're under arrest."

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (ZMbDb)

139 525
i've never met a true libertarian....i think they are like unicorns and don't really exist....


Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:46 PM (u8GsB)
yikes posted this downstairs thinking i posted it in here.....crazy

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (u8GsB)

140 They will likely never open that pizza shop again...so how much is enough? Or is this just about making a statement.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (TlMTA)

141 It must be nice going through life with the kind of serenity that people (seem) to get from religion.

-----

Contentment - yes. Serenity - not so much. Fear of God and all.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (gmeXX)

142 " I don't approve of your life style"

Oh OK could I give you alot of money for your product?

Only an idiot or worse, an activist would do that.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (rDqRv)

143 I wasn't able to find the actual review (and boy, did the Gorgle search lead places I didn't want to go), but after Will Ferrell's new movie 'Get Hard' got trashed in the press, somebody writing about the debacle mentioned a reviewer taking offense at the plot point that a straight man would object to having oral sex with another man in prison, because 'homophobic'. Anyone remember that one?

Because, wow. Getting kind of obvious about the 'all will cheer as I get it in the rear' agenda of the militant gay rights crowd.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (DLu2s)

144 122 there's a video of Penn Jillette of Penn Teller and Bullshit fame on CNN captioned "No one's forcing you to have gay sex."

No one's forcing you to pray at the school benediction, either.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (MMC8r)


Great point.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (L2xDv)

145 Zap - $237K now. We should start a pool to call the time of the $250K mark.


4:05 pm Central.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (AcDHT)

146 Agreed. The Fed having to compel someone to act contrary to their beliefs has should be a high fence to jump.

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (/2E+M)


You rang? Do ignore my shrimpy right-center cousin.

Posted by: The Fenway Green Monster at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (cL79m)

147 The reason I support the bakers et al over the gay mafia is pretty much the same reason I am prolife. If there is an issue where rights are competing (and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that marriage is a right, although I'm not sure I'd go that far) then you go with the one that causes the least injustice.
-----------------------

Always drink upstream from the herd.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (F2IAQ)

148 As a smoker, I have 10 plus years dealing with these fucks. My only reply to these assholes is, Hitler hated smokers too. The nazi posters about smoking are chilling. The parallels these assholes are traveling is uncanny. They WILL NOT stop. There is no U.S.A. to stop them this time.

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (ucDmr)

149 >>there's a video of Penn Jillette of Penn Teller and Bullshit fame on CNN captioned "No one's forcing you to have gay sex."

Eh, looking at the various public school sex ed curricula and associated sex celebration activities by outside organizations (by Kevin Jennings, Planned Parenthood, etc.) they're inching in that direction. Stuff like teaching how to fist, in-class role play where two girls are encouraged to kiss. I don't trust progressive activists at this point - at all.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (cXQJ2)

150 Nondiscimination is important, but religious freedom is more important.

----

Only one is a right.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (gmeXX)

151 $240K

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (0FSuD)

152 The tell here is the hyperbole.

It is not hyperbole to state that people will be forced to serve gay weddings against their values: that has happened. It is a documented and verifiable fact.

It is not even hyperbole to state that churches may be forced to provide services to gay weddings. It has not yet happened, but it is a directly logical step based on current trends.

It *is* hyperbole to suggest that protecting people and churches from being forced to serve gay weddings is "new Jim Crow," or "like saying gays can't eat at a lunch counter."

If their points were so good, they wouldn't have to be so over-the-top, would they?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (kff5f)

153 Damn. No wonder I let my subscription lapse.
They have this weird progressive libertarian tilt growing within them.

Posted by: kraki at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (krvsp)

154 Me? Jealous of YOU? Are you freakin' kidding me?

Where's the restroom in this stupid joint, anyway?

Posted by: Man in the Members Only Jacket at April 02, 2015 04:48 PM (h8UWI)

155 Thus, A Traditional Conservative

http://tinyurl.com/mapec2y

Posted by: The Conservative Hat at April 02, 2015 04:49 PM (0Ew3K)

156 He's right as far as he goes: mobs yelling and lying and pressuring companies is part of the market. That's market forces at work, and in an economic system its perfectly viable, if distasteful.

The problem I have here is that there's more to life than the market. Too often libertarians seem to be reductionist and not realize that the free market is not a panacea that will fix it all. Left to their own devices, humans will commit horrors and atrocities with freedom, not build monuments and civilizations. They need moral and ethical guidance, they must have virtues they agree upon which shape and guide freedom.

Freedom is not the end goal. Freedom is the path you take toward your end goal. We aren't free just to be free, we're free to do something. And that something can be evil or good.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:49 PM (39g3+)

157 Posted by: BurtTC at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (TOk1P)



hop on reason.tv and look at some of nick's interviews.



I think you'll like him -- at least that part of who he is.



Don't read anything he has to say on religion if you're easily offended.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:46 PM (AkOaV)


I'm not easily offended. Just easily bored.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 02, 2015 04:49 PM (TOk1P)

158 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:45 PM (gmeXX)

Yeah, I mean... the primary reason I call myself a "libertarian" is economic issues.

Traditionally, the democrats would come along and say "we need xyz entitlement! We need to close the donut hole in medical care for old people, we need to throw a ton of money at it, and we need to start handing out free medications at government pharmacies"

and the republicans would say "You're absolutely right! But we believe in a conservative, free market solution. So instead of the government handing out medications, let set up a byzantine system that involves crony capitalists, 'choice' of providers, and big cash incentives to big pharma!"

And the liberals say, "god damn it, fine. We'll cave to you on this one with your conservative solutions"

And I'm sitting here saying... wow, fuck all of you. Whats the political position for "STOP SPENDING MY MONEY TO GIVE OTHER PEOPLE FREE SHIT" ?

Which is why I'm not really comfortable with the "conservative" label.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (AkOaV)

159 As a smoker, I have 10 plus years dealing with these fucks.

-----

As I've often said - things really accelerated when this country collectively determined that we have the right to go get drunk in a smoke free environment.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (gmeXX)

160 4:05 pm Central.
Posted by: rickb223
------------------

Dood..., that's like 15 minutes from now.

I'm calling 5:20 Eastern..., 30 minutes.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (F2IAQ)

161 Wohnst du hier im Hessen?

Nee. Hab' vor Jahren in FFM gewohnt, lese heutzutage die FAZ und anderen online von den USA aus.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (JtwS4)

162 We've seen it here in the comments.

Someone says "Oh... would it be okay if X?"

Well- show me where X is happening - or how it is a direct logical extension of my liberty - and then I'll answer that question.

Until then: you're just an authoritarian who wants to give someone else a right to my Labor and/or Property, and you may kindly go fuck yourself.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (kff5f)

163 >>Agreed. The Fed having to compel someone to act contrary to their beliefs has should be a high fence to jump


And yet HHS birth control mandate. Because the state thinks your faith begins and ends at your place of worship.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (cXQJ2)

164 160 4:05 pm Central.
Posted by: rickb223
------------------

Dood..., that's like 15 minutes from now.

I'm calling 5:20 Eastern..., 30 minutes.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (F2IAQ)

Col. Mustard in the Kitchen with an Uzi

Posted by: MikeH at April 02, 2015 04:51 PM (/2E+M)

165 No one's forcing you to pray at the school benediction, either.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 04:43 PM (MMC8r)



Great point.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (L2xDv)

you didn't know the nuns i knew......

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:51 PM (u8GsB)

166 I think one of the commenters at the reason articles hit the nail on the head. Basically that modern libertarians are too busy attaching the word "right" to anything that is a basic freedom, and thereby undermining that very freedom.


Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 02, 2015 04:51 PM (xSCb6)

167 Freedom is not the end goal.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:49 PM (39g3+)

No, freedom IS the end goal. And free markets do solve 99.999% of problems in the long run, with the notable exceptions of national defense, courts, and police, although you'll find some (anarcho capitalists) who will say even those problems can be solved without government.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:51 PM (AkOaV)

168 Which is why I'm not really comfortable with the "conservative" label.

----

I guess I don't think the conservative position is the one you described. But its just a label. Can I say a free-market conservative?

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (gmeXX)

169
It *is* hyperbole to suggest that protecting people and churches from being forced to serve gay weddings is "new Jim Crow," or "like saying gays can't eat at a lunch counter."

If their points were so good, they wouldn't have to be so over-the-top, would they?

--

I posit that preventing RFRA is essentially the new Jim Crow. One class of people have the right to trample those of another group, with force of law. They are using bully tactics to put in place legal protections for one class of people, while preventing legal protection for another.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (dquK7)

170 you didn't know the nuns i knew......

If you're in a Catholic school, it's reasonable to assume you're there because you or your parents want you to be, not because the government wants you to be.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (/kI1Q)

171 167 Freedom is not the end goal.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:49 PM (39g3+)

No, freedom IS the end goal. And free markets do solve 99.999% of problems in the long run, with the notable exceptions of national defense, courts, and police, although you'll find some (anarcho capitalists) who will say even those problems can be solved without government.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:51 PM (AkOaV)

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose

Posted by: Me at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (/2E+M)

172 I don't think I'm "conservative" at all in the sense it's usually used in Europe.

Conservative in Europe was being for a monarchy, while the liberals wanted the People to have a Voice.

The US is so liberal by Europe's (old) standard we're off the charts.

It is a sad facet of history that the European societies went so leftwing, that liberal (and trending left) US is now "conservative".

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (0NdlF)

173 He's right as far as he goes: mobs yelling and lying and pressuring companies is part of the market.


Lying is cool? Good to know.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (AcDHT)

174
this is gays telling christians to get in the closet

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (lKyWE)

175 Brief chuckle break:

http://tinyurl.com/pv8ylu2

On modern feminism...

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (BZAd3)

176
If you're in a Catholic school, it's reasonable
to assume you're there because you or your parents want you to be, not
because the government wants you to be.


Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (/kI1Q)

(i was half joking....)

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (u8GsB)

177 151 $240K

Moo Moo could double that with his pocket change.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (sWgE+)

178 (i was half joking....)

Sorry. I came in halfway...

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (/kI1Q)

179 Bill Maher calls himself a libertarian!

These labels don't mean shit!

Posted by: Dan at April 02, 2015 04:54 PM (COpZ4)

180 Col. Mustard in the Kitchen with an Uzi
Posted by: MikeH
----------------
* notes suspicious lump under the jacket *
Hey..., is that a concealed candlestick you're carrying?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:54 PM (F2IAQ)

181 No, freedom IS the end goal. And free markets do solve 99.999% of problems

And this is where libertarians get into trouble, because they don't understand human nature or human history. We need virtue as a people or the freedom will inevitably lead to ruin and horror. Always. Its not enough to just be free. You have to be free and good.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:54 PM (39g3+)

182 I don't lie your behavior and do not wish to be around you.

Oh can I give you money and be your friend?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 04:54 PM (rDqRv)

183 However Moo Moo identifies himself - I'm not that.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:54 PM (gmeXX)

184 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:50 PM (AkOaV)

We're not nearly as far apart as the cold black text on white background makes it seem. Medicare Part D (like SocSecurity Disability Insurance before it) was a big mistake on the part of RepubicRATs in their first bite of total power after the DemocRATs introduced the main parts of Medicare and SocSecurity that will (and in SSDI's case has) turned into a fucking ridiculously expensive disaster.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:55 PM (cL79m)

185 Dood..., that's like 15 minutes from now.


$242,753 with 9 minutes left.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (AcDHT)

186 Moo Moo could double that with his pocket change.
Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (sWgE+

Triple with couch change.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (vPh3W)

187 And this is where libertarians get into trouble, because they don't understand human nature or human history.

------

I agree with this. They have a simplified ideal of how things should be - and their ideal is better than other ideals. But like all ideals, they ignore one key thing - humans are not ideal.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (gmeXX)

188 9 I am sick of the whole "equality" bullshit he talks about in the first paragraph.

Same-sex couples are at a huge advantage. We have marriage because opposite sex couples must take extraordinary precautions not to reproduce. Maybe they're sterile, but unless they're old, they have to take extraordinary steps to discover it.

Heterosexuals (particularly women) are handicapped and marriage exists in part to deal with that handicap.

I'm really sorry gays seem to have this mental illness that they require psychological validation in the form of aping the most heteronormative institution known to mankind.

If we didn't reproduce sexually, marriage would not exist.

"Reason" is not "opposition to whatever icky Christians think".
Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:21 PM (L2xDv)



Because your love isn't real unless the government acknowledges it and threatens to ruin anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Posted by: Buzzion at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (z/Ubi)

189 $243,158

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (AcDHT)

190
Young uninitiated female from Memories Pizza up next with Cavuto on FNC.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (P330y)

191 Right Wing in Europe is love of country and military, but otherwise leftist. They called that lunatic in Europe that shot up the island full of communists a right winger despite being super hard left on all issues but immigration.

Europe has no conservative movement.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (39g3+)

192 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (gmeXX)

Well, thats what a large number of "conservatives" mean when they call themselves conservatives. Like Bush, McCain, Romney, Boehner, McConnell, that sweater vest guy from PA who hates online gambling, etc. etc.

And I have almost nothing in common with those people politically.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (AkOaV)

193 Are we really revisiting the function and purpose of freedom and government? This could take a while. *rattles quills and goes off to get coffee*

Posted by: lurkingestlurker - Giant Monastic Plush Porcupine at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (PFxw/)

194 However Moo Moo identifies himself - I'm not that.
Posted by: SH
----------------

Wait..., you're not a pretentious asshole?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (F2IAQ)

195 Hey..., is that a concealed candlestick you're carrying?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:54 PM (F2IAQ)


No, I'm just happy to see you.

Posted by: Zoltan at April 02, 2015 04:57 PM (V+kmg)

196 And who, exactly, gets to describe what's "good", Chris Taylor ? You ?


That's no different that the Progressives. They're mandating their version of "good" right now.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 02, 2015 04:57 PM (yDqYW)

197 Well I had a pretty significant chubby after the Bill Quick post, but now I have a full-fledged woody.


Posted by: ballistic at April 02, 2015 04:57 PM (iWDim)

198 Contentment - yes. Serenity - not so much. Fear of God and all.
Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:47 PM (gmeXX)


-------------------------------------------


Fear of God? Nah. Accepting God's discipline, yes.

Discipline is necessary. It really does keep life bearable, and much of the time enjoyable. Discipline is what leftists fear most. It means they must become responsible for the actions. Can't have that.

Posted by: Soona at April 02, 2015 04:57 PM (/HX7u)

199 And this is where libertarians get into trouble, because they don't understand human nature or human history.

Look, I don't expect Libertarians to be wise. It's a philosophy grounded in teenagers who picked up their first Ayn Rand and are bored with going to church.

They make a big deal about their consistency and principle. I expect them to hold to that. That's all.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 04:57 PM (L2xDv)

200 Wait..., you're not a pretentious asshole?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (F2IAQ)


You're not a pretentious asshole if you can back it up.

.....

So yeah, he's a pretentious asshole.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 02, 2015 04:57 PM (V+kmg)

201 Because your love isn't real unless the government acknowledges it and threatens to ruin anyone who doesn't agree with you.

If the government would get out of the marriage business (taxes, inheritance, etc.) it wouldn't matter. But they won't because government.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 02, 2015 04:57 PM (JtwS4)

202 Sorry. I came in halfway...


Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (/kI1Q)

no problem...i'm wound super tight at the moment...a guy i fired back in dec is giving me a headache at the moment....might have to file a restraining order.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (u8GsB)

203 they require psychological validation in the form of aping the most heteronormative institution known to mankind

That is kind of amusing, isn't it?

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (/kI1Q)

204 Europe has no conservative movement.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (39g3+)

The left here is using Europe as a how to manual.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (sWgE+)

205 Bill Maher calls himself a libertarian!


Yeah, Breitbart got him to admit on his show that he was basically a European socialist. I think that even his wikipedia page has gotten away from that libertarian misnomer.


ace is probably one of the few people who matches my idea of what a libertarian is, but that's part of the problem with the libertarian label in the first place: it's poorly defined.


Then again, so are the rest of the labels.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (xSCb6)

206 I saddest part of this debate is that only a small minority of a small minority are clamoring for the ghey marriage.

My ghey friends would like the option, but really don't care. What they really want is to be considered normal, which can never be. So, marriage won't help them, nor pride rallies, nor whatever the fuck they can they can't think up and put on the rest of us. Marriage isn't the problem- normalcy is and it always will be.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (yn6XZ)

207 As for Reason magazine, remember Conquest's Second Law:

"Any organization not explicitly right-wing, sooner or later, will become left-wing."

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (ZMbDb)

208 Its incredible and sad that there is even a debate about this. The government has a weak-ass argument that when you have a store on a public street you can't refuse to let anyone come in to shop. I'll grant that.

But to say that you MUST GO and provide services at a private affair? That is awfully close to being back to legalized slavery.

Posted by: PaleRider at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (dkExz)

209 176
If you're in a Catholic school, it's reasonable
to assume you're there because you or your parents want you to be, not
because the government wants you to be.


Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 02, 2015 04:52 PM (/kI1Q)

(i was half joking....)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM

It will all be good when the Govt forces the gheys into Christian schools as teachers. Then education will be on even footing.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (vPh3W)

210 Welp, yelp had to delete memories pizza out of embarrassment I would suppose, or the fact that the owners are now UP 250 large. More than enough to cost yelp 10 times that amount in court.

Posted by: People Corp at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (TzeLs)

211 And who, exactly, gets to describe what's "good", Chris Taylor ? You ?

Someone does, and someone always will. Its just a question if its an absolute, objective good or something you make up for yourself.

You cannot avoid it: someone will always decide what is good and what is bad in a society. Always.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (39g3+)

212 Well, thats what a large number of "conservatives" mean when they call themselves conservatives. Like Bush, McCain, Romney, Boehner, McConnell, that sweater vest guy from PA who hates online gambling, etc. etc.

And I have almost nothing in common with those people politically.

-----

Valid point. If being conservative means you are like those people - then I am not that.

I guess I prefer to label them Republicans and not conservatives.

If you come up with a good label - let me know.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (gmeXX)

213 the=their

Posted by: Soona at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (/HX7u)

214 $244K

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (0FSuD)

215 They are up to 244k so the people must be thrilled.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 02, 2015 04:59 PM (iQIUe)

216 Bush lied to my Black Presdent and that is a Federal Crime and he should be arrested now. we call on Presdent Obama and Attorney General Holding to arrest him now and turn him over to the UN for his crimes against humanity for the two illegal wars against Iran.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 02, 2015 04:59 PM (Sd++4)

217 Europe has no conservative movement.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (39g3+)

The left here is using Europe as a how to manual.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (sWgE+)


You misspelled "bipartisan Party-In-Government".

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 04:59 PM (cL79m)

218 Moo Moo could double that with his pocket change.
Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 04:53 PM (sWgE+

Triple with couch change.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 04:56 PM (vPh3W)

Who's gonna clean the spooge off the couch change?

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at April 02, 2015 04:59 PM (nFdGS)

219 I look forward to the burning times. The chance for clarity makes me horny.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (oDCMR)

220 .might have to file a restraining order.....
Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (u8GsB)

Hope he isn't ghey. That would mean you are a H8er

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (vPh3W)

221 Really good stuff today, ace.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (g1DWB)

222 Who's gonna clean the spooge off the couch change?
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at April 02, 2015 04:59 PM (nFdGS)


And you guys thought I was bad.

Posted by: The Barrel at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (V+kmg)

223 Somebody give Ace some bubblegum before he kicks everybody's asses.

Posted by: Pecan Scandi at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (JVWwF)

224 He's right as far as he goes: mobs yelling and lying and pressuring companies is part of the market. That's market forces at work, and in an economic system its perfectly viable, if distasteful.

The 'market' in some small southern owns fifty years ago put some people in trees. The 'market' isn't pure democracy over life and limb.

And a death threats and arson isn't anywhere equivalent to deciding to patronize or not.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (MMC8r)

225 Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (u8GsB)

((pg)) Make sure you do whatever it takes to stay safe.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (GDulk)

226 But to say that you MUST GO and provide services at a private affair? That is awfully close to being back to legalized slavery.
Posted by: PaleRider at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (dkExz)

yeah that's not exactly the argument.

It's like a Private Country Club. If they stay strictly private and only allow "Members" to use the facilities they can not allow outside people to use that facility. HOWEVER once they open that facility up for Functions, to NON Members, they lose that right. At least that is how the Courts have ruled on that

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (rDqRv)

227 What they really want is to be considered normal, which can never be.

They want society to make them feel less strange and guilty, and that comes from within.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (39g3+)

228 No, the screaming and yelling and boycotting are not a part of a free market system.

They are the result of an incestuous media/cultural monopoly that shits out memes for the useful idiots to parrot.

If you had asked any random bleating liberal two weeks ago what the thought of the bill, you'd get a shrug and a "I dunno" but suddenly, thanks to the Mass Hysteria Machine, they swear that it's the second coming of Hitler.

Yeah. Ok. Whatever.

Posted by: Lauren at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (MYCIw)

229 Somebody give Ace some bubblegum before he kicks everybody's asses.

I hope You brought enough for everyone....Hedly...

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (Bn6aD)

230 Who's gonna clean the spooge off the couch change?
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at April 02, 2015 04:59 PM (nFdGS)

Moo fap? Ugh!!

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (vPh3W)

231 $245K+, now

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (F2IAQ)

232 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 04:54 PM (39g3+)

Well freedom aint shit if you don't have the freedom to be bad.

And while I'm a small l libertarianish (constitutional conservative? fiscal conservative? whatever), I don't think I'm ignorant of human nature or human history.

In fact, I think its my knowledge of human history and human nature that leads me to believe that shit doesnt change, human nature doesn't "progress" and that theres no way to "evolve" society in to a socialist utopia where human nature ceases to exist.

I recognize that people are selfish, self driven, and often erratic and illogical. And I think the best way -- on the whole -- to harness that in to something that works for close to everyone is through voluntary transactions, economically or otherwise, that allows people the most latitude to do their own thing... as long as they're not infringing on others' rights.

So in other words, I'd rather a government exist to enforce protection of my rights, then to tell me what I can and cannot do.

As soon as a government says "you must buy health insurance. You must serve gay cakes. You must not ingest certain substances. You must wear a seatbelt. You must ..." whatever is when the government no longer exists to protect my rights from infringement by others, but instead exists to tell me what the fuck to do, which means essentially I have no rights.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (AkOaV)

233 I'm glad it wasn't just me...Reason seems to have an awful lot of Obama voters on it's payroll to be, you know, libertarian.

Posted by: rc at April 02, 2015 05:02 PM (J4ZHs)

234 So what are you telling me Chris ? Because all I'm seeing is "Christians in charge Good", "Progressives in charge Bad".

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 02, 2015 05:02 PM (yDqYW)

235 $245,470.

If I could, I drop the remainder just to make it in time so I
could win.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:02 PM (AcDHT)

236 Somebody give Ace some bubblegum before he kicks everybody's asses.

Posted by: Pecan Scandi at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (JVWwF)


I'm all out of bubblegum.

Posted by: John Nada at April 02, 2015 05:02 PM (cL79m)

237
I'm wcked tolerant. Some of my best friends are cocksuckers.

Posted by: please dont squeeze the soothie at April 02, 2015 05:02 PM (Yidyr)

238 What is the most urban/big city area in the USA that is also NOT insanely left wing?

Does a place like this exist?

Posted by: Dan at April 02, 2015 05:02 PM (COpZ4)

239 >>Like Bush, McCain, Romney, Boehner, McConnell, that sweater vest guy from PA who hates online gambling, etc. etc.

And I have almost nothing in common with those people politically.

Oddly enough, a lot of these guys have little in common with each other.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (g1DWB)

240 $246K

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (F2IAQ)

241 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (AkOaV)

Can you sum that up into one nice neat label?

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (gmeXX)

242 I'm all out of bubblegum.
Posted by: John Nada

I got yer back,

Posted by: Bazooka Joe at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (GuwT9)

243 I'll be honest...this just seems like some strange rant directed at Gillespie solely over his tweet about being ambivalent. While I think he's dopey to be ambivalent about the case, I'm not sure Ace really points to any other example of him being a "fake libertarian".

Posted by: S at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (NhLdG)

244 I'm wcked tolerant. Some of my best friends are cocksuckers.

Posted by: please dont squeeze the soothie at April 02, 2015 05:02 PM (Yidyr)


I'll introduce them to my asshole friends.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (sWgE+)

245 The fact that it works is why we can't have anything
nice. No I don't have a way to fix that, unless enough people realize
that it *is* a tactic that is destructive and don't cooperate with it,
which is unlikely because the press, the bureaucracy, and most of the
politicians are fully on board with it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 02, 2015 04:40

^^^^^ This.

Posted by: olddog in mo at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (3eZI/)

246 The Left captured the government, the media, the GOP, the schools, the culture, the churches....why, exactly, is it so surprising that it capture the Libertarians?

The Left believes its bullshit and doeswhatever it takes to advance it. Islam aside, no other group even comes remotely close.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (amQXf)

247 but instead exists to tell me what the fuck to do, which means essentially I have no rights.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:01 PM (AkOaV)

but, it's ok to abort a baby for convenience.

And on that little hand grenade I'm out of here.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (vPh3W)

248 Damn! $3,500 under at 4:05 pm.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (AcDHT)

249 I got yer back,

Posted by: Bazooka Joe at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (GuwT9)


Leave the gum; take the bazooka.

Posted by: Duke Nukem at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (cL79m)

250 240 $246K
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (F2IAQ)
I foresee a paying off of any debt, a full remodel, and expansion of said pizza store.

Posted by: People Corp at April 02, 2015 05:04 PM (TzeLs)

251 Welp, yelp had to delete memories pizza out of embarrassment I would
suppose, or the fact that the owners are now UP 250 large. More than
enough to cost yelp 10 times that amount in court.


Their yelp page is still there ... It says they're closed, which may be a result of the death threats.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:05 PM (0NdlF)

252 My ghey friends would like the option, but really don't care.

They don't even want the option. 0.33% of married households in Canada are SSM (they've had it for a while now). And why not? It's not even meant to precede a relationship but be its capstone.

What they really want is to be considered normal, which can never be.

Who is normal? Besides, nobody wants to be an iconoclast anymore? I see plenty of kids with facial piercings and extensive tattooing. Doesn't seem that they want to be "normal."

So, marriage won't help them, nor pride rallies, nor whatever the fuck they can they can't think up and put on the rest of us. Marriage isn't the problem- normalcy is and it always will be.

That, and a hatred of religion.

Maybe we should ban the teaching of evolution, it must be doing a number on the self-esteem of gay kids.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (L2xDv)

253 Hope he isn't ghey. That would mean you are a H8er

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 02, 2015 05:00 PM (vPh3W)
no not ghey...polli

ugh....it should be fine....we are taking the necessary precautions.....he's a hothead


Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (u8GsB)

254 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (gmeXX)

I just skip trying to come up with a name, and just go with what the liberals would call me: a hatertarian.

Or a conaziervative.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (AkOaV)

255 Remember when they said this wouldn't happen?

Religious freedom would have primacy?

It's not as if this country was founded on that principle or anything.

Being libertarian means never having to argue history, never having your ideas tested by reality and never surrendering your chance to get laid by your college freshmen students .

Posted by: Danube River Guido at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (RJMhd)

256 The answer has always been localism. The enemy of self government is not the shape or philosophy of the government, but rather it's reach.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (evdj2)

257 It would seem that Penn Jilette's atheism is stronger than his alleged "libertarianism."

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (ZMbDb)

258 Ace is on fire. I love this. I love everything he writes about this. I am so deeply ashamed of what America is becoming - has become - and Ace says it all so perfectly.

Posted by: Sobek at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (aa38m)

259 Well freedom aint shit if you don't have the freedom to be bad.

I agree, but I'm not thinking about to construct government and force, but how a society ought to be constructed. You cannot have a functioning, enduring civilization without a virtuous society.

Where some conservatives and all leftists fall down is that they think this comes from government and law. It doesn't, and cannot. You cannot make people good. All you can do is make them suffer for being bad. And if you do so too much, then you've killed liberty.

Society has to pressure and shame people into behaving good as a culture, and goodness can only come from within. True virtue is internal and personal, but it comes from a society that blesses, praises, lifts up, encourages, and honors virtue.

If we don't have that we have nothing. No future, no liberty, no civilization.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (39g3+)

260 "I think the whole question of God is really unanswerable."

I used to think so, too.

But if you keep saying "I'm never going to find x," it's likely you never will.

Be well, Horde. I'll be on my front porch in a kilt, with a bottle of pot still whisky, wondering what the fuck I ever did to deserve Easter.

Posted by: Feh at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (a99xE)

261 5:05 - $247K, rickb near-misses on money call.
Mike Hammer has beads of sweat forming on forehead, 8 minutes remaining.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:07 PM (F2IAQ)

262 Damn! $3,500 under at 4:05 pm.>>>

You were only $3K off by the ace clock.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 02, 2015 05:07 PM (Mxs5H)

263 Just watched the UK election debate.

My take:

Mililbrand (Labour) came off like Ringo Starr with a lobotomy.

Cameron (Conservative) stayed cool and handled the debate well.

Clegg (Lib Dem) sounded irrelevant.

Farage (UKIP) sweated like a stuck pig, but got some of the best lines in.

Bennet (Green) sounded like a more convincing choice for socialists.

Wood (Plain Cybru) & Sturgeon (Scottish National Party) were trying to out socialize Labour... and succeeded.

Posted by: The Independence Hat at April 02, 2015 05:07 PM (0Ew3K)

264 When someone tells you that they know how society should be ordered, they are simply telling you that they intend to be your master.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:07 PM (evdj2)

265 wondering what the fuck I ever did to deserve Easter.
Posted by: Feh
------------

Not to mention the liquor.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:07 PM (F2IAQ)

266 FLASH!

Pemex fire has been struck out!

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2015/04/02/mexico-says-oil-spill-avoided-after-deadly-offshore-blaze/

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 05:07 PM (EMi53)

267 It might be nice if Breitbart or someone did a story on Yelp and similar being used as tools for political terrorists. I'd like to see them justify their system and its misuse.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 05:08 PM (MMC8r)

268 So in other words, I'd rather a government exist to enforce protection of my rights, then to tell me what I can and cannot do.


Those are conflicting requirements.

Government protections involve the threat and use of armed force to tell *someone* what they can or cannot do.

What you should want is a government that enforces the bare minimum of critical rights, and lets people/society handle the rest. What you want right now is a square circle.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:08 PM (0NdlF)

269 Oddly enough, a lot of these guys have little in common with each other.
Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:03 PM (g1DWB)

Well, they're all statists who believe that the answer to most problems in life starts with "We should pass a law..."

Different flavors of statists, but I don't see a huge difference between a John McCain and, say, Harry Reid. Their first instinct to any situation is to write a law that ends up helping their cronies and buddies, enlarging government, and making whatever the original problem was worse, thus requiring MORE government intervention down the line (according to their way of thinking).

I don't have a neat label for them either. Assholitarians maybe.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:08 PM (AkOaV)

270 They want society to make them feel less strange and guilty, and that comes from within.


Most are incapable of determining self worth. I see it everyday of FB with wimmens. So, have we all: one posts a selfie, and 50 other chicks immediately tell them how fabulous they look! Likewise, if you post a fat joke, a hundred women will tell you its hurtful and evil.

When you have to get your measure of self worth from the herd, you will always be a slave.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at April 02, 2015 05:09 PM (yn6XZ)

271
It is good to see that someone realizes how dangerous stirring up a mob is. There is a subtle distinction between leading the mob and being pursued by it.

And the mob can change targets awfully fast.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Engraved Irasicbility 25% Off at the Outrage Outlet! at April 02, 2015 04:23 PM (hLRSq)







Mot.

Posted by: Zombie Georges Danton at April 02, 2015 05:09 PM (SpnVI)

272 The white flag is out! $248,175

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:09 PM (evdj2)

273 Be well, Horde. I'll be on my front porch in a kilt, with a bottle of pot still whisky, wondering what the fuck I ever did to deserve Easter.
Posted by: Feh at April 02, 2015 05:06 PM (a99xE)


::: fist bump :::

Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 02, 2015 05:09 PM (V+kmg)

274 Murdered newlywed lawyer 'was soliciting men for sex on Craiglist and was stabbed to death and robbed by female military school grad who arranged to meet him at hotel'

David Messerschmitt, 30, who met his wife in college, had been using Craigslist to solicit men, according to an affidavit on Tuesday

Jamyra Gallmon, 21, 'contacted victim using a masculine-sounding email address and went to hotel with the intention of robbing him'

The pair got into a struggle on February 9 and she stabbed him repeatedly in the abdomen, back and groin
____________

He was there to butt fk a guy; she was there to roll a gay guy. What a mess for his poor wife !

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 02, 2015 05:09 PM (iQIUe)

275 The company's official Twitter account announced late Wednesday that fire had been extinguished after hours of being showered with water sprayed from 10 firefighting and emergency boats. Pemex Director General Emilio Lozoya ...

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 05:09 PM (EMi53)

276 What you should want is a government that enforces the bare minimum of critical rights, and lets people/society handle the rest. What you want right now is a square circle.

And, as toby928(C) says above: is localized. The smaller and more local a government is, the more accountable and controlled. The larger and more centralized it is, the less so. This was most of DeTocqueville's point.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:09 PM (39g3+)

277 I don't have a neat label for them either. Assholitarians maybe.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:08 PM (AkOaV)


Take mine - Party-In-Governmetn (or if that's too long, PIG).

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (cL79m)

278 "Will you come videotape my gay orgy?"

"No."

"Bigot."

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (ZMbDb)

279 5:05 - $247K, rickb near-misses on money call.

Mike Hammer has beads of sweat forming on forehead, 8 minutes remaining.



Are we going by The Price is Right Showcase Showdon rules? Because I didn't go over.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (AcDHT)

280 Here's what I've truly learned in my time on here ... many, many of you truly want a Democratic Theocracy ruled by an Elected Benevolent Monarchy.


You're just fine with Government encouraging Morality, as long as that Morality I based on Christianity.


If it comes to Civil War, I'll need ammo to join you against the Progressives ... and more ammo to rebel against you once the first fight is won.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (yDqYW)

281 damn feh.....that was deep...i'm reminded that i'm not worthy of Easter and I never will be..... there but for the Grace of God go all of us.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (u8GsB)

282 Ace, thank you for this and your last couple of posts calling out the guys at Reason. I have been troubled by how anti-anti-"gay marriage" they have become. At first I was just puzzled by their support for "gay-marriage;" the way I thought it went was that the "libertarian position" was that there should be no gov't involvement in marriage, that it should be a private contract, and that at the most the concession to the State could be civil-unions for all. Now I'm bewildered and troubled by how willing those so-called libertarians are to have forceful coercion used to further the cause of "gay-marriage."

Thanks again for taking the stand for real freedom.

James G

Years long lurker; this is my first comment on the site.

Posted by: jamesg042 at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (oUaBK)

283 Dammit, my fingers are flying faster than the keyboard is registering. Damn mechanical keyboard.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:11 PM (cL79m)

284 Because I didn't go over.
Posted by: rickb223
---------------------------

I'll have a ruling on that in about 3 minutes.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:11 PM (F2IAQ)

285 Have you seen the article where the SalesForce CEO Benioff is actively handing out reassignments to different states for those employees that no longer want to live in Indiana? With $50k moving packages.

http://tinyurl.com/ltlceot

This hysteria is so disgusting, it's like these people are needing to be airlifted out of a hostile war zone.


Posted by: McAdams at April 02, 2015 05:11 PM (Q0WjC)

286 $249,290

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (evdj2)

287 You're just fine with Government encouraging Morality, as long as that Morality I based on Christianity.

----

You're point?

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (gmeXX)

288
Here's what I've truly learned in my time on here ... many, many of you truly want a Democratic Theocracy ruled by an Elected Benevolent Monarchy.


You're just fine with Government encouraging Morality, as long as that Morality I based on Christianity.
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM

--

You must have missed the love-fest for Huckabee here.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (dquK7)

289 Be well, Horde. I'll be on my front porch in a kilt, with a bottle of pot still whisky,



No manspreading!

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (AcDHT)

290 285
Have you seen the article where the SalesForce CEO Benioff is actively
handing out reassignments to different states for those employees that
no longer want to live in Indiana? With $50k moving packages.


This is a joke right?

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (Bn6aD)

291 When someone tells you that they know how society
should be ordered, they are simply telling you that they intend to be
your master.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:07 PM (evdj2)


Yeah, whenever I get the newsletter from my neighborhood association, and they say things like "hey, you want to keep your yard up because curb appeal is important!" I'm thinking, "no, I'm going to let it die, because I don't need you, neighborhood association, to be my hitler any more than I need hitler to be my hitler."

Posted by: BurtTC at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (TOk1P)

292 287 You're just fine with Government encouraging Morality, as long as that Morality I based on Christianity.

----

You're point?



That's your point. I'm giving up for the day.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (gmeXX)

293 287 You're just fine with Government encouraging Morality, as long as that Morality I based on Christianity.

----

You're point?



That's your point. I'm giving up for the day.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (gmeXX)

294 Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:08 PM (0NdlF)

No. I guess it comes down to a fundamental understanding of what rights are. For the Christians among us, I'm speaking of "god given rights" as in the rights given by god that are "inalienable".

So, for example, a gay pizza is clearly not an "inalienable" right, because no one has the "right" to force someone else to harvest tomatoes, cheese, dough, etc., then use their labor to cook it and deliver it.

Healthcare, same shit.

But an easy one -- we all agree that you have an inalienable right to your life, the fruits of your labor (property), and to freedom from being subjugated by other people.

So the only situation a government would be telling someone "what they cant do" is when someone goes out and takes someone elses life, property, or freedom. in which case government intervenes.

Other than those situations (and contract law & national defense), I don't see a huge need for government on any level, much less national level.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (AkOaV)

295 Can you say nuclear backfire. now its 249k.

Posted by: People Corp at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (TzeLs)

296 Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 04:58 PM (u8GsB)

Ugh that's terrible! Good luck. Just remember you have ppl here with lots of legal experience and access to firearms, should the need arise. And all the moral support you could hope for.

Posted by: LizLem at April 02, 2015 05:12 PM (yRwC8)

297 Reason had an article on something other than police brutality and malfeasance?

Posted by: Cruzinator at April 02, 2015 05:13 PM (sIhFA)

298 Dammit. The butthurt in the comments would have been delicious. $249,650

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:13 PM (evdj2)

299 $249,555 at 5:14

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:13 PM (F2IAQ)

300 dear God....my 20 yr old is supposed to be getting an internship relating to his major......he just informed me he's going to start working as a dj.......not even remotely close to his major....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 05:13 PM (u8GsB)

301
A score for gofundme, also.

Their vig is, what, 5%?

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 02, 2015 05:13 PM (Yidyr)

302 Here's what I've truly learned in my time on here ... many, many of you truly want a Democratic Theocracy ruled by an Elected Benevolent Monarchy.

You're getting straw everywhere. Some people are able to imagine solutions that don't involve law and government.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (39g3+)

303 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:13 PM (F2IAQ)


I'm missing something. You called a certain amount at a certain time?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (0NdlF)

304 Odd that I don't recall in recent times, mobs of straight people harassing business that were gay or catered to gay people. Seems to me that they had gotten what they wanted as far as rights etc. (I am opposed morally but don't think the govt. should be involved) But apparently that wasn't good enough. No, the battle apparently is all about acceptance. And marching lock-step with the group think and burning the heretic that dares not cater their whim and wedding.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (qyGu1)

305 "5
The funny part? I'm not even convinced that the pro-gay marriage side
is *really* the majority on this. I think what we're seeing is a
combination of loaded polling and social mau-mauing that only makes it
appear to be such. I doubt there's been a 20 point swing in two years.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at April 02, 2015 04:19 PM (YYJjz)"

The swing has not been among the American population but among the Ruling Class. For quite a while they have not liked Christianity or Christians but Obama and the mob persuade them that acting on those feelings is righteous, moral and virtuous.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (KDbAT)

306 QUARTER OF A MILLION

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (0FSuD)

307 Posted by: jamesg042 at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (oUaBK)

welcome, james, and you're absolutely correct.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (AkOaV)

308 Ah! $249,907 at 5:15 Eastern.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (F2IAQ)

309 $250,032

A quarter of an effin mill. Amazing.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (evdj2)

310
what's the tally for the gofundme anti-memories pizza fund?

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (Yidyr)

311 $250 now..

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (F2IAQ)

312 $250,032

Some good news for the day...

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at April 02, 2015 05:15 PM (Bn6aD)

313 * casually burnishes fingernails *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:15 PM (F2IAQ)

314 If there were a pizzeria that only served gays, you'd never see a man in it.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:15 PM (ZMbDb)

315 Bitter clinger assholes don't mind parting with some green to keep hate alive.

Posted by: Yelp Commenter at April 02, 2015 05:16 PM (yn6XZ)

316 * casually burnishes fingernails *
Posted by: Mike Hammer



I unfriend you.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:16 PM (AcDHT)

317 Posted by: ScoggDog at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (yDqYW)

Weed can make you paranoid.

Posted by: Cruzinator at April 02, 2015 05:16 PM (sIhFA)

318 I'm missing something. You called a certain amount at a certain time?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster
---------------

Yes..., and nailed it dead nuts, if I do say so.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:16 PM (F2IAQ)

319 278 "Will you come videotape my gay orgy?"

"No."

"Bigot."
Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (ZMbDb)


Actually they're ready to call you a bigot if you don't want to participate in the gay orgy.

Posted by: Buzzion at April 02, 2015 05:16 PM (z/Ubi)

320 The proper response to mobs is the application of high energy physics, and it's high time it happened.

And as an aside: They're still not married.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz, Registered Independent at April 02, 2015 05:16 PM (8EvyW)

321 If there were a pizzeria that only served gays, you'd never see a man in it.
Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones

We did a study of that a while back. You're welcome.

Posted by: National Institute of Health at April 02, 2015 05:17 PM (GuwT9)

322 >>Well, they're all statists who believe that the answer to most problems in life starts with "We should pass a law..."

I hate this argument because you can make it about any politician. It all gets down to personalities after that.

Reagan was the guy who signed EMTALA, quite possibly the most intrusive piece of unfunded federal legislation in history and the thing that led us on a straight line to ObamaCare. But most ignore that because Reagan is a conservative hero.

This isn't 1776 with a blank slate. We live in a far different time and the only people who get to be purer than snow are people from safe districts who frankly don't have much of a record. Everybody else is under barrage do "fix" something and ones person statist becomes another's conservative.

I just hate labels. I like looking at what people do in the context of the where and when they were governing.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)

323 Back on topic, People like what they like, and dislike what they dislike and they often can't even tell you why. Man is a reasoning creature. Not necessarily a reason-giving creature.

The system has to deal with that.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:17 PM (evdj2)

324 Posted by: McAdams at April 02, 2015 05:11 PM (Q0WjC)

People are going to take him up on it just to get the $50,00 (unless they have *really* expensive houses to unload) and then he'll claim his entire staff fled the state from fear. Confirmation bias, yes?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at April 02, 2015 05:17 PM (GDulk)

325 Welcome, James G.

Posted by: LadyS at April 02, 2015 05:17 PM (xYNhJ)

326 9,000 donors, $250K in less than 24 hours


Take that gaystopo.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:17 PM (0FSuD)

327 thanks liz.....it will be be fine...or should be...after a bad situation three years ago that had the potential of getting messy our warehouse guy got his carry permit.....and we armed ourselves.....i'm not even there today....he is calling and texting me alternating between begging demanding $$

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 05:18 PM (u8GsB)

328 I unfriend you.
Posted by: rickb
-----------------------
It's all in a good cause m'lad.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:18 PM (F2IAQ)

329 Reason was an amazing magazine--and voice for liberty--when Virginia Postrel was Editor-In-Chief. Nick Gillespie's editorship has ruined it. I put off acknowledging it for a long time after he took over, but unsubscribed after well over a decade when the tenth or twelfth issue dominated by Outsider Art and similar nonsense, rather than freedom, hit my mailbox.

Posted by: Dodd at April 02, 2015 05:18 PM (XdULY)

330 I unfriend you.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:16 PM (AcDHT)


That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Posted by: Esurance Seasoned Broad #2 at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (cL79m)

331 So the only situation a government would be telling someone "what
they cant do" is when someone goes out and takes someone elses life,
property, or freedom. in which case government intervenes.


Which is a subset of "telling people what they can and cannot do", which is what you don't want government to do.

Let's say I don't like dogs, but I do want a small dog. So I actually do like dogs - the small ones.

You don't want government to tell people what to do, except for some important things. So you actually do want government to tell people what to do, but limited to the important things.

We're agreed on the result, I'm just looking for correct categorization of the position.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (0NdlF)

332 This is a joke right?


Posted by: hello its me Donna

No, it's an article from CNN on Drudge

Can you imagine if a CEO of say Chik-Fil-A was handing out reassignemnts to employees to different state with bonuses because a state legalized gay marriage and wanted to have an escape plan for these employees?

The blowback would be insane.


Posted by: McAdams at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (abh2q)

333 ***Here's what I've truly learned in my time on here
...



Posted by: ScoggDog at April 02, 2015 05:10 PM (yDqYW)***

And I've learned that a surprising amount of adults are able to magically read shit that hasn't been said.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (xSCb6)

334 Here in the Queen's Kingdom, I happily cater gay weddings with curries, fish and chips, and a buffet of offal sausage.

Posted by: Nigel Slenderpole at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (2cS/G)

335 You're just fine with Government encouraging Morality, as long as that Morality I based on Christianity.

All governments encourage morality. "Don't harm someone else" is a moral stance.
All we're doing is haggling over the price and the services rendered.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (y5n9M)

336 You're just fine with Government encouraging Morality, as long as that Morality I based on Christianity.

All governments encourage morality. "Don't harm someone else" is a moral stance.
All we're doing is haggling over the price and the services rendered.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (y5n9M)

337 I unfriend you.
Posted by: rickb
-----------------------
It's all in a good cause m'lad.
Posted by: Mike Hammer


Exactly! Good for them.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (AcDHT)

338 >>> Have you seen the article where the SalesForce CEO Benioff is actively handing out reassignments to different states for those employees that no longer want to live in Indiana? With $50k moving packages.

To be fair, their HQ is in San Francisco, they probably do not understand WHY anyone would want to live in flyover Indiana in the first place. Is only for for Parks & Rec locale, that's it. They probably think they are rescuing them from the bowels of hell! Idiots.

Posted by: LizLem at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (yRwC8)

339 There are still some okay articles in Reason but not enough to go there deliberately looking. Sometimes someone will link a gem, and on some topics they're fairly reliable.

But they're definitely slouching into Christopher Hitchens territory, something that I see uncomfortably often here. All for freedom and we're in this together except for those awful SoCons that keep costing us elections and ruin everything!!!!1!1!!!!!!!!1

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (39g3+)

340 Genital tattoos will fix everything.

Posted by: Barak Obama, Nobel Laureate (Reproductive Sciences) at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (yn6XZ)

341 Yes..., and nailed it dead nuts, if I do say so.

Nice. But when did you predict it?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (0NdlF)

342 Good to see folks owning up tho their own statist tendencies, and by folks, I mean Ace.
And
I'm really surprised that as a smoker you didn't see this statist or authoritarian streak in the "right" before.
That's where I first noticed it, decades ago, and you're a damn smart person, so how the hell did you miss it, especially in NYC?

Posted by: OneEyedJack at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (XmOA9)

343 Here's a pleasant thought.

Every one of the SJWs out there foaming at the mouth about this stuff could slip up and say something just wrong enough to have this whole rabid mob turn on them, too.

Like Burny the Lesbian Track Coach, they're just a few tweeted characters from bringing the whole thing down on themselves, too.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (MMC8r)

344 so, when it comes about the latest 4 or 5 posts about gheys, the references to Czech writers (under communist rule), witch hunting and mobsters are all over the place.

finally you are calling a spade a spade

they are really winning hearts and minds

Posted by: fromabroad at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (LKY8c)

345 The Walmart of today is nothing like when the old man was around.
They are just another PC organization now.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (JgC5a)

346 hook farm girls into prostitution

Wait, what?

Posted by: wooga at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (xqbRO)

347 It just keeps going and going and going.


$252K

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (0FSuD)

348 I'd hold off on that gofundme celebration until they have the money in their hand. I don't know who runs that operation, but I wouldn't be surprised for some "Terms and Conditions" issues or some such bullshit to crop up.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:21 PM (ZMbDb)

349 And meanwhile the real bigoted hating religion has claimed another couple hundred lives after a massacre at a Kenyan university. --just saw in FB sideline no details.

This is what makes me insane. If the left was at least consistent and loudly protested Islam for killing gays and generally being violent and fascist a-holes whenever they have any power it would be one thing.

but no its "you a meanie bigot!11ty" if you want to choose who to sell your services to and crickets when the real racist, homophobic, rule by violence, not a trace of dissension allowed theocrats or theocrat wannabes kill, maim and torture people.

Posted by: PaleRider at April 02, 2015 05:21 PM (dkExz)

350 Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)

Well, sure.

Reagan in office was not the same Reagan who gave the speech endorsing Goldwater (the "A Time for Choosing" speech), which was an amazing speech that I agree with damn near 100%.

I understand that political reality means "compromises" are necessary. And I don't think Reagan was a saint -- but at least his heart SEEMED to be in the right place.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:22 PM (AkOaV)

351 I'll repeat my declaration of the other day that I have deleted my Reason bookmark as of 3/22/2015 after they allowed this shit hit piece on Israel to be posted under their masthead:

http://tinyurl.com/ouz6hpu

Before, I was conflicted as I am a small l libertarian and they seemed to represent my views to some extent (yet they favored TFG over McCain by about an 8:1 margin in 200. But in recent months I found myself agreeing with them less and less about more and more...

Then they just flat out shit the bed on 3/22 as far as I am concerned.

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 02, 2015 05:22 PM (7prSY)

352 I'm in favor of the government running society the way I think it should be run. Ideally, I'm not only "right" in how I want it run, but also successful in convincing a majority of my fellow citizens that I'm right. The system is successful when I can accept being out-persuaded.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:22 PM (evdj2)

353 Its the job of government to encourage good and punish bad. Its just a question of how you define those and why, as well as how limited the government is in doing so. For me, the definitions are fairly simple and historical, and the limits very restrictive and many.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:23 PM (39g3+)

354 9,000 donors, $250K in less than 24 hours



*************


Awesome. Suck my fat one, you cheap dime-store hoods.





I mean that figuratively.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at April 02, 2015 05:23 PM (vgIRn)

355 Oh and that reminds me, how spitting mad must the Parks & Rec writers be this week with the show cancelled? They missed out on awesome writing sessions for a new season where they can totally run this issue into the ground, now that Indiana is in the news. DOWN. TWINKLES.

Posted by: LizLem at April 02, 2015 05:23 PM (yRwC8)

356 No, it's an article from CNN on Drudge

Can you imagine if a CEO of say Chik-Fil-A was handing out reassignemnts to employees to different state with bonuses because a state legalized gay marriage and wanted to have an escape plan for these employees?

The blowback would be insane.

Posted by: McAdams at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (abh2q)


That would violate the First Commandment of the ObamiNation - Liberalism, however the high priestesses define it at any particular time, is a jealous demigod, and shall have no gods, especially a Christian God, before it.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:23 PM (cL79m)

357 And meanwhile the real bigoted hating religion has claimed another couple hundred lives after a massacre at a Kenyan university. --just saw in FB sideline no details.

#ThoseBlackLivesDontMatter

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 05:23 PM (MMC8r)

358 Good to see folks owning up tho their own statist tendencies, and by folks, I mean Ace.
And
I'm really surprised that as a smoker you didn't see this statist or authoritarian streak in the "right" before.
That's where I first noticed it, decades ago, and you're a damn smart person, so how the hell did you miss it, especially in NYC?
Posted by: OneEyedJack

Yes, because saying the state doesn't have the right to coerce people into an association against their most deeply held principles is the very definition of statism. Now go get your fucking shine-box.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at April 02, 2015 05:24 PM (GuwT9)

359 Actually they're ready to call you a bigot if you don't want to participate in the gay orgy.

Titty fuck Bruce Jenner. It's the only way to be sure.

Posted by: wooga at April 02, 2015 05:24 PM (xqbRO)

360 Who are the retards at Wal-Mart who think this will bring them into liberal good graces? Two days from now they'll be back to being the Source of All Evil, but they'll have lost a few conservative friends. Might be near time to short the stock.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:24 PM (ZMbDb)

361
#ThoseBlackLivesDontMatter

#ThoseChristianBlackLivesDontMatter...

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at April 02, 2015 05:24 PM (Bn6aD)

362 I'm waiting until I get home from work to donate to the Pizza Shop. I wonder how many others are doing the same and how far up will go.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 02, 2015 05:24 PM (Mxs5H)

363 348
I'd hold off on that gofundme celebration until they have the money in
their hand. I don't know who runs that operation, but I wouldn't be
surprised for some "Terms and Conditions" issues or some such bullshit
to crop up.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:21 PM (ZMbDb)

they could end up being audited by the irs or losing it paying off a lease if their business doesn't own the building....keep them in your prayers.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 05:25 PM (u8GsB)

364 Posted by: wooga at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (xqbRO)

That particular poster appears to be unable to type a coherent sentence (as in, even less coherent than MUMR). He (?) has been around consistently this week, not sure when he showed up though.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at April 02, 2015 05:25 PM (GDulk)

365 Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:19 PM (0NdlF)

I know it may seem like a minor distinction, but it's not.

And maybe that's my fault for not communicating what I'm saying well, although I think you know what I mean.

Government should exist as my agent to protect me from others' infringing on my rights.

Government should not exist as my parent to protect me from myself.

Does that make more sense?

Because there is a huge difference between "If my neighbor steals from me, the government should be the agent to ensure that I'm made whole" and "If I disapprove of my neighbors actions, government should be in charge of making sure he acts the way I think he should"

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:25 PM (AkOaV)

366 I'd hold off on that gofundme celebration until they have the money in their hand. I don't know who runs that operation, but I wouldn't be surprised for some "Terms and Conditions" issues or some such bullshit to crop up. Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:21 PM (ZMbDb)

That would be an impressive foot-bullet for GoFundMe. That just means someone else steps in to handle $250,000+, while a large number of people (9K+) get really pissed off at GoFundMe for screwing around with their intended donations.

I'm not ruling it out - but it would Backfire. So. Hard.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:25 PM (0NdlF)

367 The Walmart of today is nothing like when the old man was around. They are just another PC organization now.

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at April 02, 2015 05:20 PM (JgC5a)


I remember when Wal-Mart had a hyphen in it, and championed American-made products.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:25 PM (cL79m)

368 >>I understand that political reality means "compromises" are necessary. And I don't think Reagan was a saint -- but at least his heart SEEMED to be in the right place.

No doubt. Best president in my lifetime. And yes, far from a saint with a whole truck load of his own heresies.

We're just mighty quick to toss people into the dustbin over sometimes nothing other than being politicians. McCain is a douche and coming from AZ he has no excuses for his actions. But I'm willing to bet that Cruz is going to moderate his positions if he happens to get the nomination and has to win nationally rather than in ruby red Texas. I don't think that is going to make him a squish.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:26 PM (g1DWB)

369 Genital tattoos will fix everything.
Posted by: Barak Obama
-------------

Heh. A lot you know.

Posted by: Genital warts. at April 02, 2015 05:27 PM (F2IAQ)

370 275 - Thank you to everyone who said a prayer! I'm getting too old for this crap!

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 05:27 PM (EMi53)

371 Interestingly, somebody named "Seth McFarland" just popped for $20 for the O'Conners about five minutes ago. No word as to whether Stewie also ponied up.

Posted by: MTF, Vote for someone the GOP insiders hate! at April 02, 2015 05:27 PM (LISuA)

372 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:23 PM (39g3+)

Okay, well then if that's your position on government, you have nothing to bitch about.

Because government now defines "forcing people to bake cakes for gay weddings" as "good" and "not baking a cake for a gay wedding" as bad.

So, there you have it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:28 PM (AkOaV)

373 I remember when Wal-Mart had a hyphen in it, and championed American-made products.
Posted by: steveegg
------------------

Where did I go wrong?

Posted by: Sam Walton, sitting on a cloud shaking his head. at April 02, 2015 05:28 PM (F2IAQ)

374 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:25 PM (AkOaV)

-----

The best defense of government is it is a necessary evil. It should be as localized as possible, and should be as minimal as possible. Obviously that is where we all disagree.

The genious of the founders was the concept of federalism - where being bound to two sovereigns will actually make us more free with greater liberties.

It was good while it lasted.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:28 PM (gmeXX)

375 David Messerschmitt, 30, who met his wife in college, had been using Craigslist to solicit men, according to an affidavit on Tuesday

------------------------------------------


It would have been cool on several levels if his age was 109.

Posted by: Soona at April 02, 2015 05:28 PM (/HX7u)

376 Well, I'm sorry you didn't like my balanced take on stripping people of their freedom, Ace, but what's the point of liberty to drink if you don't get invited to the cocktail parties?

Posted by: NIck Gillespie at April 02, 2015 05:28 PM (ElEyp)

377 The Walmart of today is nothing like when the old man was around. They are just another PC organization now.

----

Same can be said of Apple.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:29 PM (gmeXX)

378 We probably need to set up an additional gofundme operation of that Indiana pizza joint to help them pay for the inevitable IRS audit.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 02, 2015 05:29 PM (w2MRj)

379 @233 rc

"Reason seems to have an awful lot of Obama voters on it's payroll to be, you know, libertarian."

Soros's money has influence and his promise to "legalize pot" is just icing on the cake.

Posted by: Buckeye Aborad at April 02, 2015 05:29 PM (E9gGQ)

380 I just popped in from running errands.

What did I miss? Anything exciting?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 05:29 PM (0HooB)

381 Where did I go wrong?
Posted by: Sam Walton, sitting on a cloud
shaking his head



You died.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:29 PM (AcDHT)

382 Posted by: MTF, Vote for someone the GOP insiders hate! at April 02, 2015 05:27 PM (LISuA)

While it's not a common name combination, I don't suppose the famous(ish) one is the only possible Seth McFarland.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at April 02, 2015 05:29 PM (GDulk)

383 It's claimed that when you enter the marketplace, you must transact business with everyone. That you cannot refuse some group as that would be discrimination.

But the market has 2 sides, the seller and the buyer. If the seller cannot chose to not sell to someone, why can the buyer choose to not buy from someone?

Does that not make all boycotts...discrimination?

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at April 02, 2015 05:30 PM (bcUDi)

384 Does that make more sense?


Yes, that's different than what I was thinking.

Government as referee, not parent. Keep it fair, but you're not the boss of me.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:30 PM (0NdlF)

385 why can the buyer choose to not buy from someone?

-----

You may have missed the whole Obamacare thing.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:31 PM (gmeXX)

386 >>> Who are the retards at Wal-Mart who think this will bring them into liberal good graces?


I thought Sam Walton was an all around good guy, from what I've heard, but aren't all of his kids lefty loons? Could be mistaken. They are all richer than sin, in any case.

Posted by: LizLem at April 02, 2015 05:31 PM (yRwC8)

387 Where did I go wrong?

Posted by: Sam Walton, sitting on a cloud shaking his head. at April 02, 2015 05:28 PM (F2IAQ)


Leaving the company to your kids. Children often fuck up the family business, and grandchildren (cough...Brainless France...cough) inevitably fuck up the family business if it makes it to them.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:31 PM (cL79m)

388 Does that not make all boycotts...discrimination?

Whoa.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:31 PM (evdj2)

389 Because government now defines "forcing people to bake cakes for gay weddings" as "good" and "not baking a cake for a gay wedding" as bad.

Sometimes I despair that writing as communication has died. I mean, that's rough for someone who writes for a living to have to face up to.

At no point did I remotely suggest government defines right and wrong, and I went out of my way to say not government, but society enforces morality and virtue. I have several times in explicit terms stated that good and evil is defined by objective, absolute terms, not subjective.

And you think that means "government decides right and wrong," somehow?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:31 PM (39g3+)

390 It's okay. Christians never fight back.

Posted by: The Crusades at April 02, 2015 05:31 PM (EFF6I)

391 The best defense of government is it is a necessary evil. It should be as localized as possible, and should be as minimal as possible. Obviously that is where we all disagree.


It's akin to fire. When it works for you, good things can happen.

Let it get out of control, you're pretty much screwed.

We have allowed ours to get out of control. So very many who are in it do not belong in a civilized society.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (0HooB)

392 *snrk*

Competing SJW GoFundMe at $355 of $25K.

They have 3 hours to catch up to $250K.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (0NdlF)

393 "304
Odd that I don't recall in recent times, mobs of straight people
harassing business that were gay or catered to gay people. Seems to me
that they had gotten what they wanted as far as rights etc. (I am
opposed morally but don't think the govt. should be involved) But
apparently that wasn't good enough. No, the battle apparently is all
about acceptance. And marching lock-step with the group think and
burning the heretic that dares not cater their whim and wedding.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 02, 2015 05:14 PM (qyGu1)"

During World War I when Woodrow Wilson, our first fascist President, was in the White House, Mennonite conscientious objectors were imprisoned and mistreated so badly that several of them died. Fascists don't like the idea of conscientious objectors to their crusades.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (KDbAT)

394
It's claimed that when you enter the marketplace, you must transact business with everyone. That you cannot refuse some group as that would be discrimination. the wedding industry is diffirent though you are actively particpating and play a big part in the celebration

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (lKyWE)

395 The problem is, Libertarians seem a lot more interested in the Culture War then they do with issues that actually matter when it comes to shrinking government.

They would be fine with say legalized pot that was government subsidized for anyone that wants it.

Posted by: McAdams at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (abh2q)

396 but you're not the boss of me.

And yet the government is, and will always be, the boss of you. You are wishing for what cannot be.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (evdj2)

397 It's okay. Christians never fight back.
Posted by: The Crusades

Lest they get on their moral high horses.

Posted by: Jim Crow at April 02, 2015 05:33 PM (GuwT9)

398 Leaving the company to your kids. Children often fuck up the family business, and grandchildren..

-------

* counts generations since WWII *

Oh.....

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:33 PM (F2IAQ)

399 $256K

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:33 PM (0FSuD)

400 While it's not a common name combination, I don't suppose the famous(ish) one is the only possible Seth McFarland.

Who cares? Grab a screen shot and start the rumor. By the time he gets around to deny it, the hate storm should be amusing.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:33 PM (ZMbDb)

401

Competing SJW GoFundMe at $355 of $25K.


Libs spend other people's money, not their own.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 05:34 PM (MMC8r)

402 375. That story is really sad. I watched the video of the "alleged murderer" staring briefly into a security cam in the hotel hallway. It was a matter of speculation as to whether a male or female was recorded. I was pretty sure she was a woman, and it turns out to be 21 year-old female from SE.

Posted by: LadyS at April 02, 2015 05:34 PM (xYNhJ)

403 They would be fine with say legalized pot that was government subsidized for anyone that wants it.

----

I love it when libertarians argue that pot should be legalized so it can be taxed and regulated.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:34 PM (gmeXX)

404 During World War I when Woodrow Wilson, our first fascist President, was in the White House, Mennonite conscientious objectors were imprisoned and mistreated

Sedition act did a lot more than that. They outlawed teaching German culture and language as well. It was very extreme, but hey: first "progressive" president in action.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:34 PM (39g3+)

405 We have allowed ours to get out of control. So very many who are in it do not belong in a civilized society.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (0HooB)


This government has gone out of control. It is out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Posted by: Admiral Josh Painter at April 02, 2015 05:34 PM (cL79m)

406
yeah, 9,000 donors or 9,000 brand new obama's IRS targets?

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 02, 2015 05:35 PM (Yidyr)

407 They have 3 hours to catch up to $250K.

-------

Schaedenboner so hard a cat couldn't scratch it.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 02, 2015 05:35 PM (o/3Hk)

408 I love it when libertarians argue that pot should be legalized so it can be taxed and regulated.

Yeah they do it a lot and I don't think they are even considering what they say. Possibly due to the halo of smoke around them.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:35 PM (39g3+)

409 And yet the government is, and will always be, the boss of you. You are wishing for what cannot be.

American Revolution says otherwise.

They can take my money, land, and possessions, or even my life, but they can't take my soul.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:35 PM (0NdlF)

410 I love it when libertarians argue that pot should be legalized so it can be taxed and regulated.
Posted by: SH

It's hard to form a consistent argument when you're high as a kite.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at April 02, 2015 05:35 PM (GuwT9)

411 Competing SJW GoFundMe at $355 of $25K.

Link?

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:35 PM (evdj2)

412 Competing SJW GoFundMe at $355 of $25K.
------------------

Dammit! If only we could get money from the NEA.

Posted by: SJW's at April 02, 2015 05:36 PM (F2IAQ)

413 I love it when libertarians argue that pot should be legalized so it can be taxed and regulated.
Posted by: SH


They stop thinking at 'pot.'

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 05:36 PM (MMC8r)

414 . Now go get your fucking shine-box.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at April 02, 2015 05:24 PM

Oh.
I see now.
Your wonderfully constructed argument has lead me to see my error. I stand in awe of your brilliance.

Fuck you

Posted by: OneEyedJack at April 02, 2015 05:36 PM (XmOA9)

415 Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:30 PM (0NdlF)

Sure, you could put it that way.

But essentially a government that sees its roles a protecting the ultimate minority -- the individual -- from having his/her rights trampled by another individual, or a group.

So in my perfect world, unless I was calling 911 to report my car stolen, I would have zero interaction with the government.

But that's not how our government or politicians -- on either side -- think.

They see every aspect of life as something else for the government to micromanage (poorly, and in a way that ends up coincidentally steering money and influence to them and their cronies).

When congress thinks they have the authority to mandate how much water is in my toilet tank, or how my plastic gas can works, or what kind of light bulbs i can use, I think that shows how far from "limited government" our country has gone.

Because in 2015, there is not a thing in your life that hasn't been touched by government.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:37 PM (AkOaV)

416 I love it when libertarians argue that pot should be legalized so it can be taxed and regulated.

-----

They make the same argument for prostitution.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:37 PM (gmeXX)

417 Who cares? Grab a screen shot and start the rumor. By the time he gets around to deny it, the hate storm should be amusing.
Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:33 PM (ZMbDb)


I am upset and highly concerned that a prominent liberal would give support to such a vile hate group ...

So upset, that I can't take my afternoon nap.

Posted by: Concerned Liberal at April 02, 2015 05:37 PM (0NdlF)

418 yeah, 9,000 donors or 9,000 brand new obama's IRS targets?

Potato potahto. Besides they aren't all IRS targets. We have Operation Chokehold and the EPA, too.

Posted by: Obama Administration at April 02, 2015 05:37 PM (39g3+)

419 So aaccording to the gheys a Christian bakery can be forced to make a cake for a church of Satan wedding? Huh.

Posted by: GatorGirl at April 02, 2015 05:37 PM (YFnDR)

420 They can take my money, land, and possessions, or even my life, but they can't take my soul.

Once they have you money, land, possessions and life, I imagine the government is indifferent to the disposition of your soul.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 02, 2015 05:37 PM (evdj2)

421 Racist homophobic Christians encourage discrimination by paying off Pizza bigot

Posted by: MSNBC at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (0FSuD)

422 There's a brand of "libertarian" whose only issues seem to be legalizing drugs and prostitution and hating police.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (ZMbDb)

423 Oh and Hutchinson just signed the RFRA in Arkansas. Time to move the circus to Little Rock.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (g1DWB)

424 Anyone want to make a time call on $300K?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (F2IAQ)

425 Competing SJW GoFundMe at $355 of $25K.
They have 3 hours to catch up to $250K.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:32 PM (0NdlF)


Moar proof that conservatives are all rich fatcats!!! Nevermind that most of the donations seem to be coming in $10-$25 increments.

But that cracks me up. What on earth is their crowdsourcing account raising funds FOR? With the Memories one there is a compelling narrative of saving a family owned shop. Who does theirs fund, the pockets of the HRC?

Posted by: LizLem at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (yRwC8)

426 I love it when libertarians argue that pot should be legalized so it can be taxed and regulated.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:34 PM (gmeXX)


And their response when that particular inconsistency is pointed out to them is, and I quote, "Fuck you, Christian hater."

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (cL79m)

427 I love it when libertarians argue that pot should be legalized so it can be taxed and regulated.

Posted by: SH

I know, that has always amused me.

I think "libertarianism" as an ideology has merit and I find myself generally being on that wing of the conservative movement. But the actual people who label themselves that way or the Libertarian Party itself really is a joke that has absolutely no intellectual honesty.

Posted by: McAdams at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (abh2q)

428 The Gay mafia has such a wide spectrum of incredibly decadent lifestyles that they will (almost) all defend to the hysterical death that any religious or traditional culture, even a modern tolerant one, has to be destroyed. The natural allies to that are militant atheists and progressives with fellow travelers in the media.
There is no end to this.

Posted by: Hopped Up On Something at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (NHtMs)

429 Because in 2015, there is not a thing in your life that hasn't been touched by government. ... how much water is in my toilet tank

-----

I moved some of your words around. I think I see where you are going.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (gmeXX)

430 Posted by: OneEyedJack

Walgreens is having a sale on salve, get that butthurt taken care of before it turns into a chronic condition.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (GuwT9)

431 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:34 PM (39g3+)

Last progressive president ** before they had to switch to using the word "liberal"

Teddy Roosevelt was the first progressive president (and he was a republican! yay, bi partisanship!)

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:39 PM (AkOaV)

432 Dana Loesch is slated to talk about pizza on Megyn Kelly's show tonight. Who thinks the gofundme will get to half a million overnight?

Posted by: OldDominionMom at April 02, 2015 05:39 PM (GzDYP)

433 It's claimed that when you enter the marketplace, you must transact business with everyone.

Bullshit.

It's the government that is prohibited from bias and discrimination in the treatment of citizens. Everyone is equal before the law. Private citizens can pick and choose whom they wish to do business with.

Or at least, that's the way it was before this Chicago Clown Car of an administration took control.

#WASTF

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 05:39 PM (0HooB)

434 I'm sure Reason will start writing articles any day now on how businesses should not be allowed to ban guns from their establishments.

I'll wait...

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 02, 2015 05:39 PM (k2sJ1)

435 Once they have you money, land, possessions and life, I imagine the government is indifferent to the disposition of your soul.

The one who owns my soul (not me) is much greater than any government.

They've pissed away their moral authority - their physical authority is going to follow behind.

The reason rights are essential and worth defending is because it's about being in the Right.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:40 PM (0NdlF)

436 Oh and Hutchinson just signed the RFRA in Arkansas. Time to move the circus to Little Rock.
Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (g1DWB)


---------------------------


Good for him. He didn't cave...............yet.

Posted by: Soona at April 02, 2015 05:40 PM (/HX7u)

437 Anyone want to make a time call on $300K?



NO.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (AcDHT)

438 The best writer at reason is the free range chick girl.

I like the cut of her jib.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (gmeXX)

439 424
Anyone want to make a time call on $300K?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (F2IAQ)

I'll say before mid-night. I have kept up with pace, but it looks like it slowed down, people going home?, but has picked back up.

Probably around 10 because you know O'R and Megan will talk about it and that bring more money

Posted by: MSNBC at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (0FSuD)

440 >>>Too many writers there seem more enamored of gay marriage than liberty itself

Great point, ace

Posted by: some guy at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (q177U)

441 I also refuse to provide pizzas for gay weddings. Now start crowd funding me bitchez!

no cheesy bread either.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (bcUDi)

442 That Matt Welch is now considered one of the least worst writing for Reason is in indicator of how far it's sunk since Postrel was editor.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (zauWW)

443 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (gmeXX)

I don't get it... ?

Or were you being serious? I don't really proof read myself every before pressing "post" (because why would I break that great aoshq tradition?) so I'm sure half of what I write needs some interpretive dancing to understand what I'm trying to say.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (AkOaV)

444 Off MSNBC sock

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (0FSuD)

445 Oh and Hutchinson just signed the RFRA in Arkansas. Time to move the circus to Little Rock.

-----

I wonder what images and metaphors will be used in Little Rock.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (gmeXX)

446 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (AkOaV)

every = ever.

Oops.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:42 PM (AkOaV)

447
Bet the pizza shop uses only a fraction of the donation, and some organization/charity--whatever--gets lucky big time.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 02, 2015 05:42 PM (jeCnD)

448 I'm just like you! I'm exactly like you!! I'll kill you if you don't say it! Say it!!!!

Posted by: Fat Gay Guy with 1000 partners a year and Saline Prostate at April 02, 2015 05:42 PM (NHtMs)

449 Dana Loesch is slated to talk about pizza on Megyn Kelly's show tonight. Who thinks the gofundme will get to half a million overnight?
Posted by: OldDominionMom at April 02, 2015 05:39 PM (GzDYP)


------------------------------------------


Mmmmm. Dana Loesch.

Posted by: Soona at April 02, 2015 05:42 PM (/HX7u)

450 Dana Loesch is slated to talk about pizza on Megyn Kelly's show tonight. Who thinks the gofundme will get to half a million overnight?
Posted by: OldDominionMom at April 02, 2015 05:39 PM (GzDYP)

Awesome! Hope there is a clip of it floating around tomorrow.

Posted by: LizLem at April 02, 2015 05:42 PM (yRwC8)

451 But that cracks me up. What on earth is their crowdsourcing account
raising funds FOR? With the Memories one there is a compelling narrative
of saving a family owned shop. Who does theirs fund, the pockets of the
HRC?


Some group promoting LGBT-ism in IN youth, who are oppressed with hate. Why, they can't even get catered pizza from this one single restaurant in the entire state for the gay weddings they don't do!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:42 PM (0NdlF)

452 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (gmeXX)

Leonore Skinazy or whatever?

I just remember it being an unnecessarily silly name.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:43 PM (AkOaV)

453 I don't get it... ?

----

You said there was nothing in your life the government wouldn't touch and before said they regulate your toilet.

Just pointing out that the government literally is touching your shit.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:43 PM (gmeXX)

454 Who thinks the gofundme will get to half a million overnight?
Posted by: OldDominionMom
---------------------------------------

Wait..., you think that I could be seduced by Megyn Kelly? Harumph. Not a chance..., none..., nope...., no...., dammit..., just nunnnnh..

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:43 PM (F2IAQ)

455 This guy has never made $300K TAX FREE in his life.



God works in funny way. The reward for faith during Holy Week.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:43 PM (0FSuD)

456 I gave up on Reason some time ago. And the big lugubrious guy that runs it, Nick Something, is a crushing bore.

Posted by: rrpjr at April 02, 2015 05:43 PM (s/yC1)

457 Who cares? Grab a screen shot and start the rumor. By the time he gets around to deny it, the hate storm should be amusing.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:33 PM (ZMbDb)

Ah! and "D'oh". This is why I never try to counter-troll, just don't have the right brain for it I guess.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at April 02, 2015 05:43 PM (GDulk)

458 Hammer it's picking back up. They must have talked about it on The Five?

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (0FSuD)

459 Just pointing out that the government literally is touching your shit.
Posted by: SH
-----------------

I have to pay them rent to live in 'my' house...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (F2IAQ)

460 Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM

Perhaps you misunderstood my last remark.
Perhaps it was too fast.

Fuck.
You.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (XmOA9)

461 Ace,

I've read this and your preceding reply to Mr. Quick. I've been reading your fine blog for years now. I'm under the impression from past comments you've made that you're not a Christian. For the record, I am an evangelical Christian.

I just want to thank you for just about all the words you've posted in these two threads. Including the expletives, properly used in my opinion. I'm so very grateful there are souls like yourself that can see this creeping march towards Uniformity. Conformity. It is fascism with a smiley face.

I love your humor, sarcasm, all of that. We might not see eye to eye on everything, obviously not on the idea of whether Jesus is the Creator. But you don't have to agree on everything to stand for basic principles. Freedom and yes, Liberty.

Thank you so very much again for your sharp wit and please keep the fire burning for as long as The Right People do not extinguish it.

Sincerely,
Jim from Wisconsin

P.S. Please let the Badgers win Saturday, so I can make my way to the final Monday and spend as much money as I possibly can in IN.

Posted by: Jim at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (ukISj)

462 Bet the pizza shop uses only a fraction of the donation, and some organization/charity--whatever--gets lucky big time.

Assuming the IRS doesn't step in and seize the funds pending a civil rights investigation or something, I expect so yeah.

And yeah. Mr Loesch is a blessed man.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (39g3+)

463
i remember as a kid most every store,eatery or bar had a sign posted that read "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is that not legal anymore?

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (lKyWE)

464 @431 Teddy Roosevelt was the first progressive president (and he was a republican! yay, bi partisanship!)
--------------------

He was also the only 20th Century Republican president on that list of "smartest US presidents" that was floating around in the online news sites yesterday.

/rolleyes

Posted by: junior at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (UWFpX)

465 I call my jacket 'Moo Moo.'

Posted by: Nick Gillespie at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (MMC8r)

466 Do not trust Bush because Bush lies and should not be trusted. Do not fall for Bush tricks or stories because the price for believing Bush will be high. I call on Presdent Obama to make it his main priority to get rid of Bush and everything bad associated. BUSH LIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (Sd++4)

467 My feelings about the gheys are the same as the SJW's feelings about smoking now. Take it fuckin outside. The smoking ban opened the floodgates. That's why people fought smoking bans, where will it end?

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (ucDmr)

468 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 05:39 PM (0HooB)

Nope!

it all started with the term "public accommodation" which is found in Title II and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

But Barry Goldwater was a hater racist for being against the CRA of 64, because he was crazy to suggest that the government would ever use the whole "public accommodation" thing to essentially take over businesses and tell them how they must operate.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (AkOaV)

469
If there were any justice, their pizza business should be taken away from them and given to ahomosexual minority. Like Huma.

Posted by: Loretta Lynch at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (xkSSa)

470 Wait..., you think that I could be seduced by Megyn Kelly? Harumph. Not a chance..., none..., nope...., no...., dammit..., just nunnnnh..

----

I DARE her to try to seduce me. I double doggie style DARE her.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (bcUDi)

471 I have to pay them rent to live in 'my' house...
Posted by: Mike
--------------------

Which..., speaks to Ace's comments about his home being his castle.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (F2IAQ)

472 I thought Hutchinson caved and denanded changes?

Posted by: steevy at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (KETbL)

473 Ah! and "D'oh". This is why I never try to counter-troll, just don't have the right brain for it I guess.

Yeah, that's sneaky and underhanded. I like it.

But I would never have thought of doing that on my own.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (0HooB)

474 I wonder what images and metaphors will be used in Little Rock.
Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:41 PM (gmeXX)


Hutchinson...the one who broke my heart in Little Rock....

*cue Monroe and Russell dancing*

Posted by: LizLem at April 02, 2015 05:46 PM (yRwC8)

475 They can take my money, land, and possessions, or even my life, but they can't take my soul.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 05:35 PM (0NdlF)


Take my love, take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care, I'm still free
You can't take the sky from me

Posted by: wooga, two by two, hands of blue at April 02, 2015 05:46 PM (xqbRO)

476 ***"Your wonderfully constructed argument has lead me to see my error. I stand in awe of your brilliance."***


Judging by the stupidity of your original comment, it's unsurprising that you'd find the plainly obvious "brilliant".

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 02, 2015 05:46 PM (xSCb6)

477 Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (ucDmr)

Yeah, you're telling me. As a smoker, I've had a front row seat in this whole SJW thing.

"YOU DONT HAVE A RIGHT TO BLOW CANCER IN THE FACE OF SOME SINGLE MOM JUST TRYING TO PAY THE RENT BY BEING A WAITRESS! HATER!"

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:46 PM (AkOaV)

478 O'Reilly and Megyn both seem to think LGBTs need to be a special class of people. (as I heard them)

But as with the boys singing the stupid n***r song on the bus, it is clear blacks and gays have the power already. The stupid boys got royally punished while doing no harm but being privately (maybe) racist. Probably just singing the song as childish acting out against the rules. And if blacks were actually so badly hurt, it was because networks made big money off of playing it all day for a week. One black on the million man march bus said he heard much much worse about whites ... and gangster rap is not very friendly. But yeah right ... EQUALITY .. they need a special class.

The hostility toward any that support even "equal rights" RFRA is far greater than any issues I see gays facing. Do they want gay quotas for hiring? Special demonization of loyal Christians. Lower test scores for coollege entry?

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (QGjci)

479 Nice Jim, well done. Go DUKE.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (0FSuD)

480 I think this pizzeria gofundme campaign violates the Logan Act.

#callback

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (ZMbDb)

481 i remember as a kid most every store,eatery or bar had a sign posted that read "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

I think everyone realized that was code for "we don't serve your kind here, Buck" and retired them in shame. I support the printed concept but not what it really meant and was used for.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (39g3+)

482 I did not know that "jacket" is a euphemism for "asshole".

Posted by: fixerupper at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (o/3Hk)

483 Oh, and WI can beat KY. So DO IT!

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (0FSuD)

484 With regards to smoking, I liked how I said it the other day.

We have the right to get cirrhosis of the liver without also getting lung cancer.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:48 PM (gmeXX)

485 Posted by: junior at April 02, 2015 05:45 PM (UWFpX)

Well obviously he was smart, because he agreed with progressive democrats on everything substantive (except tariffs.)

Oh, and did anyone catch how that list was compiled?

The author guessed IQs of all presidents based on words used by the press to describe them. Yes, seriously. So words like "astute" meant bonus IQ points while words like "reactionary" got negative IQ points.

If that aint science! i don't know what is.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:48 PM (AkOaV)

486 >>I thought Hutchinson caved and denanded changes?

He did and it was. It was changed in IN too but that hasn't stopped the hysteria.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:49 PM (g1DWB)

487 Judging by the stupidity of your original comment, it's unsurprising that you'd find the plainly obvious "brilliant".
Posted by: Burn the Witch

Careful now. You might force him to break out the mighty "fuck you retort" on you. It hurts man.

CUT ME MICK, I CAN'T SEE!

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at April 02, 2015 05:49 PM (GuwT9)

488 This whole go fund me thing is funnier than when the Internet made school bus lady a millionaire.

Posted by: People Corp at April 02, 2015 05:49 PM (TzeLs)

489 GLAD may have to rename themselves, LGAD, otherwise... War on Women.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:49 PM (F2IAQ)

490 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:48 PM (gmeXX)

Damned right!

Because you can get cancer from second hand cigarette smoke, but not from second hand alcohol consumption.

Also, not from second hand marijuana smoke.

Okay?!

/typical leftist with a nonsensical ready made response to everything

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:49 PM (AkOaV)

491 Assuming the IRS doesn't step in and seize the funds pending a civil rights investigation or something, I expect so yeah.

And yeah. Mr Loesch is a blessed man.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (39g3+)


Using the "anti-cybercrime" EO put into place yesterday (no, that was not an April Fool's joke - Teh SCOAMT did put Operation Chokehold in writing and expand it to "cybersecurity threats"), Team SCOAMT will declare the fundraiser a "threat" to "cybersecurity" and freeze the financial assets of everybody who donated to it.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:49 PM (cL79m)

492 Once upon a time, gov't going after a business that didn't want to serve certain people was applauded by the right.

Once upon a time, gov't mandating that certain groups be afforded extra consideration for schools, jobs, living quarters was applauded by the right.

Once upon a time, gov't began hiring people for it's own work force by the above standards (or relaxation of same) and the it was applauded by the right.

Once upon a time, gov't, now that it was in the business of creating special entitled classes, found itself as the ultimate arbiter of business, educational and social standards began raking in money from those groups to either prevent more intrusion or to intrude more and now the right was concerned but they also saw the money that could be made so it was applauded (tepidly) by the right.

Then these groups got big enough, through government intervention, and had money enough, Fed gov again, to challenge the upper echelons and demand that the lesser be not only required to pander to them but required to do their bidding. And now the right became alarmed but it had gone so far down the road their was no road map back and a violent, nasty and well fed crowd baying for the right's lives and livelihoods that they had to run for it.

And that was applauded by the left.

End lesson 101 of Reasons to Not Let the Camel's Nose of Governmental Enforcement of Rules and Regs of Behavior Under the Tent.

Too bad it's too late.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 02, 2015 05:50 PM (zRby/)

493 364 -- You remind me of Coots Matthews, who was married four times to two women. When asked why, he said "You figure it out."

http://tinyurl.com/ktcqyjb

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 05:50 PM (EMi53)

494 When a Twitter liberal says something like, "RFRA will allow people to murder gays," he's not being hyperbolic, he's being genuinely retarded.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:50 PM (ZMbDb)

495 Even though the other animals would not help, the Little Red Hen was forced to give them some of the bread she made because they said they were ghey.

- Bed time story re-written for modern times

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 02, 2015 05:50 PM (XUKZU)

496 Any list of greatest presidents that does not have Washington at the top is a list not worth reading.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:50 PM (gmeXX)

497 I would love to see you and Nick Gillespie do a series of point / counterpoint -- maybe posting on each others site so that the commentors on both side can weigh in.
Except you have to register to comment at the liberty-loving libertarians site. (It hasn't stopped spammers from what I've seen either.)

Posted by: andycanuck at April 02, 2015 05:50 PM (kivUY)

498 422
There's a brand of "libertarian" whose only issues seem to be legalizing drugs and prostitution and hating police.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (ZMbDb)

^^^this^^^

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (u8GsB)

499 He did and it was. It was changed in IN too but that hasn't stopped the handwringing hysteria.
Posted by: JackStraw

Just saying...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (F2IAQ)

500 Internet goes full retard on a strip mall pizza place, nuclear backfire ensues.

Posted by: People Corp at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (TzeLs)

501 If the right ever formed a "mob", what actually remained of the left would be pretty frigging afraid to ever use that word again.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (FMbng)

502 @294: "But an easy one -- we all agree that you have an inalienable right to
your life, the fruits of your labor (property), and to freedom from
being subjugated by other people."

Actually, we as a nation, as states, and localities don't agree on any of that.

Unalienable right to life: suicide is illegal; abortion is legal; you need prescriptions to get certain medications that could give you a health benefit, and all manner of drugs are denied to you.

Unalienable right to the fruits of your labor: Nope, federal, state, and local government all take a nice piece of that while you live, and again when you die.

Unalienable right to freedom from being subjugated: standing police forces subjugate, courts, legislatures, HOAs, etc. So long as a sufficiently large or powerful group tells you what to do, you are subject to their whim.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (amQXf)

503
The gofundme money should be given to Arfican American owned businesses that was destroyed by white racesist bigots like the owners of this Piaza place. Bigots don't donate correctly so it is the duty of government to intervene and make corrections, like an autotuner.

Posted by: Loretta Lynch at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (xkSSa)

504 It was changed in IN too but that hasn't stopped the hysteria.

-
We need an hysteria czar!

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (XUKZU)

505 Dammit. Wish I had thought to capture the Gofundme comments.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (F2IAQ)

506 484: Whatever I've heard em all. Seig Heil!

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (ucDmr)

507 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (39g3+)

Really, though? Do you really think thats what it meant?

I mean, I wasn't alive back then, but my gut tells me that the liberal media we know and love today mayyy have been exaggerating some of the happenin's that were happenin' back then, and that the Bill Ayers of world who work in academia writing the text books and history books mayyy exaggerate some things in their tellings of history.

I don't know though. Like I said, I wasn't there. But I was alive for "Hands up don't shoot!" and I see how that was reported and it's already being taught in schools, so... lets just say, I have my doubts about the accuracy of some things I've been told about the past.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:52 PM (AkOaV)

508 The hostility toward any that support even "equal rights" RFRA is far greater than any issues I see gays facing. Do they want gay quotas for hiring? Special demonization of loyal Christians. Lower test scores for coollege entry?

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 02, 2015 05:47 PM (QGjci)


In order, "yes", "oh fuck yes, and their assets too", and "yes".

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:52 PM (cL79m)

509 $260K. rolling rolling rolling

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:52 PM (0FSuD)

510 $260K in ONE DAY

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:53 PM (0FSuD)

511 Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (amQXf)

Oh, yeah I meant "we all" as in we all here in the comments, not "we all" as a country. Clearly, my / our views are way in the minority in this country.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:53 PM (AkOaV)

512 I have fought the good fight over the smoking bans with people who call themselves conservatives and who for the most part really are. For example, most of my family typically agrees with me on things - yet they all disagree with me on smoking bans.

It was and is very frustrating.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:54 PM (gmeXX)

513 I'm old enough to remember when it was just G&L. Then the Bs came along. Then the Ts. Now I increasingly see LGBTQ. Whatever a Q is and how it doesn't fit into L,G,B or T, I'm not sure.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:54 PM (ZMbDb)

514 $260K. rolling rolling rolling


Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:52 PM (0FSuD)


Holy shit. Impressive.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 02, 2015 05:54 PM (FMbng)

515 Sadly..., the pizza folk will probably have to move from their small town.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:55 PM (F2IAQ)

516 So aaccording to the gheys a Christian bakery can be forced to make a cake for a church of Satan wedding? Huh.

-
What? You've never heard of religious freedom?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 02, 2015 05:55 PM (XUKZU)

517 $261,000. Sodom is losing this round.

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 02, 2015 05:55 PM (iRwHt)

518 We need an hysteria czar!

That's pretty much everyone on the Left who has a Twitter account these days.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 05:55 PM (0HooB)

519
Is Bill Whittle a part of this mess?

I hope not.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 02, 2015 04:26 PM (IXrOn)

He's not at Reason. He has his own website and gigs at Truth Revolt and PJ Media.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 02, 2015 05:55 PM (WvS3w)

520
I'm old enough to remember when it was just GL. Then the Bs came along. Then the Ts. Now I increasingly see LGBTQ. Whatever a Q is and how it doesn't fit into L,G,B or T, I'm not sure.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:54 PM (ZMbDb)
======================

Duh. It stands for "questioning". People we haven't quite convinced yet.

Posted by: Bruce Jenner at April 02, 2015 05:55 PM (xkSSa)

521 Q is for questioning.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (xrURQ)

522 You may have a point about some of the writers at Reason, Ace, but the comments are running about 10 to 1 in favor of freedom of association. You should take allies where you can find them.

Posted by: Motorhead at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (jc4t8)

523 I have fought the good fight over the smoking bans with people who call themselves conservatives and who for the most part really are. For example, most of my family typically agrees with me on things - yet they all disagree with me on smoking bans.

It was and is very frustrating.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:54 PM (gmeXX)


The sad thing is the smokers made it so easy to demonize them.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (cL79m)

524 Ha - Insty has a link about 21st c relationships. This man is having trouble getting over his wife's sordid past. I have friends who have had the same issue. Why any couple would voluntarily tell each other about their "past" is beyond me.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (gmeXX)

525 Wait til we get our goose stepping National Security Force. Then shit will get real.

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (ucDmr)

526 Hey, you gheys, thanks for a great Easter. May the luck of the Irish bless you.

Posted by: Crystal O'Conner, Pizza Owner at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (0FSuD)

527
Holy shit. Impressive.


Moo Moo makes that on his lunch break.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (MMC8r)

528 We need an hysteria czar!



Quick! Pick a woman!

Posted by: rickb223 at April 02, 2015 05:56 PM (AcDHT)

529 What about the religious freedom of the business owner assface?

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (iRwHt)

530
The sad thing is the smokers made it so easy to demonize them.

how?

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (lKyWE)

531 The sad thing is the smokers made it so easy to demonize them.

-----

How so?

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (gmeXX)

532
I'm old enough to remember when it was just GL. Then the Bs came along. Then the Ts. Now I increasingly see LGBTQ. Whatever a Q is and how it doesn't fit into L,G,B or T, I'm not sure.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:54 PM (ZMbDb)
======================

Don't tell me you haven't thought about it. Well, then you're Q as well. Gabba gabba one of us.

Posted by: Bruce Jenner at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (xkSSa)

533 "Nailed it dead nuts."

What did Bill Clinton say to Bob Dole?

Posted by: Karnac at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (RJMhd)

534 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:54 PM (gmeXX)

Yes, I too have lost that battle with pretty much everyone who otherwise agrees with me politically. Even among smokers.

Oh well I guess.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (AkOaV)

535 I have fought the good fight over the smoking bans with people who call themselves conservatives and who for the most part really are.
-
Many years ago I lesten3ed to some local talk show host make the camel's nose under the tent argument regarding smoking and I couldn't understand what he was getting at plus I hated smoking so ignored him. I may have learned a thing or two since then.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (XUKZU)

536 Moo Moo sucks more cock in one day than most of you do in a lifetime.

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (iRwHt)

537 >>Sadly..., the pizza folk will probably have to move from their small town.

If this Go Fund Me things keep rolling they will be able to buy their small town.

Welcome to Hate Pizzaville.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 05:58 PM (g1DWB)

538 SH, studies on the damage done by second-hand smoke aren't by any means conclusive, but I'm off to Mass. 'Evenin, all.

Posted by: LadyS at April 02, 2015 05:58 PM (xYNhJ)

539 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (gmeXX)

Because those fucking TAR BREATHS stink up the place with their yellow teeth and gross cancer sticks.

Also, they should try to be more tolerant, just like us.

- SJWs/ anti-smoking crusaders.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:59 PM (AkOaV)

540 Moo Moo makes that on his lunch break.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower

Then I go to the most expensive restaurant in town with my wife...Morgan Fairchild. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Posted by: Moo Moo, as played by Jon Lovitz at April 02, 2015 05:59 PM (GuwT9)

541 I have my doubts about the accuracy of some things I've been told about the past.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 05:52 PM (AkOaV)


I seem to be having that problem, since they no longer seem to teach history in the public schools, I have taken on the role of teacher for history. I am having a horrible time finding sources that are what I learned. Worst case scenario is he learns to question??

Posted by: FCF at April 02, 2015 05:59 PM (kejii)

542 536
Moo Moo sucks more cock in one day than most of you do in a lifetime.


Posted by: Boss Moss at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (iRwHt)

So that would be at least one?

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 02, 2015 05:59 PM (0FSuD)

543 Yes, I too have lost that battle with pretty much everyone who otherwise agrees with me politically. Even among smokers.

Oh well I guess.

----

Some day there will be a study that says the smoking bans caused more deaths than the smoking because it led to more people going to bars and drinking and driving and accidents.

I'm only somewhat kidding.

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 06:00 PM (gmeXX)

544 Smokers: villains

Pole smokers: heroes

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 06:00 PM (ZMbDb)

545 how?

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (lKyWE)

How so?

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 05:57 PM (gmeXX)


Cigarette butts all over the ground, more of a focus on annoying non-smokers than actually defending their former right to smoke, and a general attitude problem.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 06:00 PM (cL79m)

546 I used to count myself among the anti-smoking SJW crowd.

I have seen the error of my ways and repent.

Posted by: Moderate Salami at April 02, 2015 06:00 PM (/Ho8c)

547 So that would be at least one?

He never said HOW he made his money....

Piece work indeed......

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 02, 2015 06:00 PM (CVTpV)

548 Posted by: FCF at April 02, 2015 05:59 PM (kejii)

No, they do teach history in public schools. Just made up, propaganda versions of history. And while it's probably gotten worse in recent years, I have no doubt that the history and textbooks have ALWAYS been written by people with agendas.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 06:01 PM (AkOaV)

549 @485 The author guessed IQs of all presidents based on words used by the press to describe them. Yes, seriously. So words like "astute" meant bonus IQ points while words like "reactionary" got negative IQ points.
----------------------

Yup.

The most glaring omission (in addition to the commissions, such as Carter being rank 6th, iirc) was the absence of Eisenhower. The guy successfully ran the entire Allied campaign in Europe, balancing egos of a bunch of men like Patton and Montgomery, and then successfully ran for president, and he didn't even make the list.

Posted by: junior at April 02, 2015 06:02 PM (UWFpX)

550 Posted by: Moderate Salami at April 02, 2015 06:00 PM (/Ho8c)

Glares at the salami.

Well, I hope you feel bad next time you see a bunch of smokers huddled around in the street outside a bar in 20 degree weather.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 06:02 PM (AkOaV)

551 No, they do teach history in public schools. Just made up, propaganda versions of history. And while it's probably gotten worse in recent years, I have no doubt that the history and textbooks have ALWAYS been written by people with agendas.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 06:01 PM (AkOaV)


History has always been written by the victors, or at least those who see themselves as the victors.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 06:02 PM (cL79m)

552 Ok y'all. I think I'm going to give it a rest and try to have an AOSHQ-free Easter Triduum. Good for the soul.

Have a great Easter (including you mynewhandle).

Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (gmeXX)

553 I don't know though. Like I said, I wasn't there. But I was alive for "Hands up don't shoot!" and I see how that was reported and it's already being taught in schools, so... lets just say, I have my doubts about the accuracy of some things I've been told about the past.

There is such a thing as a "healthy skepticism." You would do well to cultivate that attitude, especially concerning virtually any story the MFM props up in front of you.

I call mine The Bullshit Filter. Immediately upon hearing any story, I axe myself, "Self, is anything I'm being told really true?" Also, know that you'll never, ever hear all the details about the circumstances surrounding a story, as "Hands up, don't shoot" illustrates.

The current state of the MFM is to agitate for socialism/communism/progressivism, all designed to make you doubt your intuition. They are not there to report the facts as they occurred, they are there to manipulate your emotions into feeling something that runs counter to your best interests.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (0HooB)

554 mynewhandle:

Yeah haha, we just covered the declaration of independence. He is waiting for battle details

Posted by: FCF at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (kejii)

555
Cigarette butts all over the ground, more of a focus on annoying non-smokers than actually defending their former right to smoke, and a general attitude problem.

when i started smoking every place had butt cans andthere were actually ash cans every half block on a city street it wasn't until anti-smoking crowd insisted on there removal that butts on the sidewalk became a problem

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (lKyWE)

556 Nood

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (GuwT9)

557 "Reason." A magazine for "liberty."

Right.

Reason is about legalizing pot more than anything else. And pot smokers love to call themselves libertarians. But I bet if the government started offering to subsidize getting stoned they would quickly start calling themselves socialists.

Posted by: NotCoach at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (jU7Af)

558 Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 06:00 PM (cL79m)

Oh, PLEASE!

First off, cigarette butts are incredibly bio degradable.
Second off, banning smoking INSIDE (where people usually use ash trays like civilized beings) does nothing to fix the problem of cigarette butts OUTSIDE.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (AkOaV)

559 New Ace BTW

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 02, 2015 06:04 PM (CVTpV)

560
515 Sadly..., the pizza folk will probably have to move from their small town.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 05:55 PM (F2IAQ)
================================================
No need to assume the internet thugs are reflective of the population of that Indiana town.

Posted by: Bruce Jenner at April 02, 2015 06:04 PM (xkSSa)

561 If this Go Fund Me things keep rolling they will be able to buy their small town.
----------------

For the ghey's, they are Hester Prynne.
Just like the UVA frat, a crime so heinous that even innocence is no excuse.*

* with credit to Dershowitz

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:04 PM (F2IAQ)

562 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puTtnqoqHLQ

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 02, 2015 06:04 PM (EMi53)

563 @495 Even though the other animals would not help, the Little Red Hen was forced to give them some of the bread she made because they said they were ghey.

- Bed time story re-written for modern times
---------------------

A couple of decades ago, there was a series of books called "Politically Correct Bed-Time Stories", or something like that. The books were basically anthologies of fairy tales and fables rewritten for the political correctness of the times.

Posted by: junior at April 02, 2015 06:04 PM (UWFpX)

564 Why any couple would voluntarily tell each other about their "past" is beyond me.

Because honesty means not defrauding your future/current spouse.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 02, 2015 06:05 PM (0NdlF)

565 No need to assume the internet thugs are reflective of the population of that Indiana town.

Posted by: Bruce
--------------------

It isn't that. It's that everyone will know that they just came into $$..., and will treat them differently.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:05 PM (F2IAQ)

566 Smokers, like the right, had a consciousness of guilt.

They knew that they had done bad stuff in the past.

They knew what they were doing now was bad also.

So they accepted being banned/vilified/mislabeled because inside they knew they were at least guilty of "bad thoughts" and "bad actions".

And now we see where that sort of thinking (or non thinking actually) leads.

And all those who jump on the bandwagon? yeah they're pretty much doing so out of relief and to make sure THEY don't attract attention by the relevant Nazis. And that they themselves jumping on the band wagon is a sort of proof of consciousness of guilt. Because some think the bad thoughts too but are quicker and less disposed to be reluctant to suppress verbalizing those thoughts.

That's why mobs can turn on one of their own so quickly; they know they're all thinking similar things.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 02, 2015 06:05 PM (zRby/)

567 junior, my kids had them, they were hilarious!

Posted by: FCF at April 02, 2015 06:06 PM (kejii)

568 Posted by: SH at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (gmeXX)

Thanks.

Even though I'm an atheist, I still celebrate Easter (well, the lamb and candy parts.)

So, you too.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 06:06 PM (AkOaV)

569 Second off, banning smoking INSIDE (where people usually use ash trays like civilized beings) does nothing to fix the problem of cigarette butts OUTSIDE.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 02, 2015 06:03 PM (AkOaV)


Which explains why, even before ashtrays got deleted from cars (and in older cars that still have ashtrays), smokers flicked their butts out the window instead of stubbing them out into the ashtray.

Posted by: steveegg at April 02, 2015 06:06 PM (cL79m)

570 @513 I'm old enough to remember when it was just G&L. Then the Bs came along.
----------------------

It's not so much that the Bs came along, as it is that the G&L and Bs decided to set aside their fighting until after their common enemy was destroyed.

Posted by: junior at April 02, 2015 06:08 PM (UWFpX)

571 Iran is calling obama a liar. lol

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 02, 2015 06:09 PM (iQIUe)

572 I always thought of REASON as cultish. They are still a bunch of Israel haters and murderer lovers.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 02, 2015 06:11 PM (iQIUe)

573 The War on Big Tobacco quickly became the War on Every Smoker Everywhere. It seems that a lot of people love to have permission to hate someone else.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at April 02, 2015 06:11 PM (GzDYP)

574
Which explains why, even before ashtrays got deleted from cars (and in older cars that still have ashtrays), smokers flicked their butts out the window instead of stubbing them out into the ashtray.

people use to toss all kinds oftrash out their car windows it was a huge problem.

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 06:13 PM (lKyWE)

575 >>people use to toss all kinds oftrash out their car windows it was a huge problem.

cue Indian with a single tear

Posted by: JackStraw at April 02, 2015 06:15 PM (g1DWB)

576 The billions transferred to lawyers as a result of tobacco suits, created an entirely new political class. We are paying a price for that.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:15 PM (F2IAQ)

577
cue Indian with a single tear

iron eyes cody was his name

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 06:16 PM (lKyWE)

578 cue Indian Italian with a single tear

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:17 PM (F2IAQ)

579
I will be posting on Gofundme tomorrow for help with my new program of anal bleaching. My anus is very dark and unattractive, and with your help, my orifice will become beautiful and attractive for those special times we all love to commemorate.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at April 02, 2015 06:18 PM (P330y)

580 iron eyes cody Espera Oscar de Corti was his name

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:18 PM (F2IAQ)

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:18 PM (F2IAQ)

582 Dances With Barrel was his name

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:19 PM (F2IAQ)

583 The guy's name was Espera Oscar de Corti

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 02, 2015 06:19 PM (F2IAQ)

584
ringo was his name

Posted by: kj at April 02, 2015 06:19 PM (lKyWE)

585 NotCoach @ 557: "Reason is about legalizing pot more than anything else. And pot smokers love to call themselves libertarians."

Anyone else notice the growing stigma attached to not smoking marijuana?

When it comes to fake victimhood, insane rhetoric and self-righteousness, pot smokers are the worst.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 02, 2015 06:23 PM (VMA3H)

586 That fake ass cryin Indian was an Italian. Made man I think. Gambino family.

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at April 02, 2015 06:24 PM (ucDmr)

587 Nip Sip, thanks for the shout out. WI can do it!

And a rematch of Duke-WI from your 10pt win earlier would make it an epic game.

Posted by: Jim at April 02, 2015 06:27 PM (ukISj)

588 Reason ... lol.

The same "libertarian" magazine that defended Barack Obama's usurpation of congressional powers with his executive order on immigration.

Reason Magazine: Demonstrating why the Libertarian Moment is always in the future.

Posted by: thirteen28 at April 02, 2015 06:37 PM (AbmsP)

589 I honestly don't understand why libertarian-ish people (me) who think they aren't crazy (me again) have a hard time saying the following:

I believe that, to the maximum extent possible, and in keeping with ordered liberty, private citizens should be free to do what they want.


It acknowledges limits, need for structure/government and basic regulation while still maintaining a desire to be otherwise free.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards, returned from 1080 exile at April 02, 2015 06:45 PM (cv6Ng)

590 498 422
There's a brand of "libertarian" whose only issues seem to be legalizing drugs and prostitution and hating police.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at April 02, 2015 05:38 PM (ZMbDb)

^^^this^^^
Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 02, 2015 05:51 PM (u8GsB)


^^^triple this^^^

Amen. A lot of "libertarians" are really just pro-pot/drugs and prostitution, and of course get angry with the authority figures enforcing those laws.

Posted by: Doug at April 02, 2015 06:47 PM (yNjgJ)

591 "Because you can get cancer from second hand cigarette smoke, but not from second hand alcohol consumption."


I'm sure glad to hear that.

Posted by: Steve Kroft at April 02, 2015 07:04 PM (KDbAT)

592 Ace is eating the right wing today. I hope there is someone to step up after the bodies are cast aside.

Posted by: rockisdead1966 at April 02, 2015 08:25 PM (FSsGW)

593 Thank you for the welcome. I'll go back to lurking now... plus it's time to go home for the week where I don't have the 'net (by choice, need to de-mediate).

I wish all a happy Easter, and a happy weekend for the non-Christian or non-belivers.

James G

Posted by: jamesg042 at April 02, 2015 08:50 PM (oUaBK)

594 And of course, reading the post, before I clicked over I KNEW TO A MORAL CERTAINTY that it was Matt Welch who wrote the article. He's the only really sound thinker I know of over at Reason.

I'm an Angels fan and habituť of the blog Halos Heaven, on which Matt posts regularly as a commenter, and I have become used to his astoundingly clear thinking on baseball matters. I've found that quality affects his political writing as well.

I don't always agree with him, but I sure wish there were more like him.

Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at April 02, 2015 09:25 PM (IAe6t)

595 Even the Matt Welsh article implies that gay marriage was somehow denied for centuries and then re-established finally as 'reason' prevailed for equality.

THERE NEVER WAS GAY MARRIAGE TO EVER BE EQUAL TO TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE!

Posted by: bobbymike at April 02, 2015 10:59 PM (8J355)

596 You're not saying "go fuck yourself" enough.

Posted by: Otto Zilch at April 02, 2015 11:09 PM (5uQlQ)

597 The fake libertarians at Reason

Go back to 2008 and look at how many of its contributors voted for Obama. It's around 50% or so. Despite my loathing of McCain, that was a dead giveaway.

Posted by: Physics Geek at April 03, 2015 06:49 PM (llWHs)

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