The New Intolerance: We Are Now Required To Embrace Just About Everything, Except the Gutter Religion Christianity

Pardon the "attack" on Christianity in the headline -- but I think that sums up the venomous beliefs of the bullies.

There is no principle here. The zealots are not claiming that we must be tolerant towards all -- that is a principle most could agree with.

No, they are instead claiming we must embrace the things they love, and hate -- and persecute -- the things they hate.

This is not "tolerance." This is, at best, simply the replacement of one set of bigotries and hatreds with the
left's favored set of bigotries and hatreds.

This WSJ is worth a read, though it gets, I think, pretty deceptive in its middle part. The WSJ says that opponents of Indiana's RFRA law "claim" that the law would "empower" florists and wedding photographers to "discriminate" against gay weddings.

That's not the claim, Old Bean. That's the entire point.

And it signals how lost this issue is when not even the defenders of the RFRA can even admit the law's purpose. They seem compelled to pretend this bit about refusing service to gay weddings is just some hypothetical crazy talk.

It's not. It's the whole point. And we should not be afraid to say so.

I don't disagree with those who refuse to serve gay weddings, and I don't necessarily agree with them, either. I don't have to. That is the point of tolerance -- not that I either disagree or agree with someone's decision or someone's self-expression, but that I support his rights to decide for himself, and express himself, as he sees fit.

My agreement with his decisions or speech -- my disgust with it -- my sympathies for it -- my hatred of it -- irrelevant, because I am not weighing in on the speech or decision itself -- merely whether I believe an American has a right to so speak or so decide.

And on that matter, I most emphatically do support their right to decide or speak as they would.

Otherwise, I'm afraid I'm going to start needing to demand my own laws, such as a law requiring liberals to confess that the earth hasn't warmed in 17 years and that there is nothing but speculation offered to explain this away whenever I demand they make that concession.

Because that's all the gay "rights" activists are doing here -- they are forcing people who disagree with their political beliefs to endorse those political beliefs anyway, using the crushing power of the state to compel assent.

And if that's the new game in town -- I have a lot of things I wish to force liberals to agree to. Such as the fact that Obama is, in fact, a leftwing socialist who despises America in his core.

This is not about serving gays, this is about acceding to gays' (and non-gay Gay Enthusiasts') demeans that those who dissent with gay weddings nevertheless be forced to endorse them.

And that is unamerican -- or, perhaps I should start learning finally, all too American, at least post-Obama American.

The paradox is that even as America has become more tolerant of gays, many activists and liberals have become ever-more intolerant of anyone who might hold more traditional cultural or religious views. Thus a CEO was run out of Mozilla after it turned out that he had donated money to a California referendum opposing same-sex marriage.

Part of the new liberal intolerance is rooted in the identity politics that dominates today’s Democratic Party. That’s the only way to explain the born-again opportunism of Hillary Clinton, who tweeted: "Sad this new Indiana law can happen in America today. We shouldn’t discriminate against ppl bc of who they love."

By that standard, Mrs. Clinton discriminated against gays because she opposed gay marriage until March 2013. But now she wants to be seen as leading the new culture war against the intolerant right whose views she recently held.

Jazz Shaw at Hot Air has been writing about the possibility of someone demanding a baker make him a Hitler Cake -- does he have the right to refuse?

Surely the answer cannot turn on the unprincipled ground that Neo-Nazis are unpopular whereas gays are tres popular at the moment.

Note to progressives: Who's Hot and Who's Not is not a principled criterion for distinguishing between who has rights and who doesn't. It's also a dangerous criterion, because groups of people become popular, or unpopular, in short periods of time.

I adopted Jazz Shaw's Hitler cake for my own hypothetical -- does a printer have the right to refuse printing up 10,000 flyers reading OBAMA IS A KENYAN COMMUNIST?

What is the difference? In both cases an axe-grinding would-be client wants to compel someone to participate in a political act with which he disagrees.

The only difference is that the left loves The Gayz and hates, allegedly, Nazis. (Though they are huge fans of things which are Naziesque.)

Ashe Schow has a good piece on why the media will never acknowledge that Jackie wasn't raped at all. To explain this, she links a year-old piece by a former hardcore Social Justice Warrior zealot, who has now an apostate about the SJW tactics and their zealot's lack of any doubt about their beliefs, or any concern for the humanity of those they destroy with their tactics.

She's still a leftwinger -- she has not become a rightwinger, for what that matters. I thought that her explanation as to distinction between belief and dogma was insightful, and explains why the left cannot abide any disagreement on their Sacred Belief of gay marriage.

Important disclaimer: I passionately support anti-oppressive politics in general and have only good things to say about it. My current political worldview falls under the umbrella of leftism, although not radical leftism.... What I feel compelled to criticize is only one very specific political phenomenon, one particular incarnation of radical leftist, anti-oppressive politics.

There is something dark and vaguely cultish about this particular brand of politics. I’ve thought a lot about what exactly that is. I've pinned down four core features that make it so disturbing: dogmatism, groupthink, a crusader mentality, and anti-intellectualism. I'll go into detail about each one of these. The following is as much a confession as it is an admonishment. I will not mention a single sin that I have not been fully and damnably guilty of in my time.

First, dogmatism. One way to define the difference between a regular belief and a sacred belief is that people who hold sacred beliefs think it is morally wrong for anyone to question those beliefs. If someone does question those beliefs, they’re not just being stupid or even depraved, they're actively doing violence. They might as well be kicking a puppy. When people hold sacred beliefs, there is no disagreement without animosity. In this mindset, people who disagreed with my views weren’t just wrong, they were awful people. I watched what people said closely, scanning for objectionable content. Any infraction reflected badly on your character, and too many might put you on my blacklist. Calling them 'sacred beliefs' is a nice way to put it. What I mean to say is that they are dogmas.

Thinking this way quickly divides the world into an ingroup and an outgroup -- believers and heathens, the righteous and the wrong-teous. "I hate being around un-rad people," a friend once texted me, infuriated with their liberal roommates. Members of the ingroup are held to the same stringent standards. Every minor heresy inches you further away from the group. People are reluctant to say that anything is too radical for fear of being been seen as too un-radical. Conversely, showing your devotion to the cause earns you respect. Groupthink becomes the modus operandi. When I was part of groups like this, everyone was on exactly the same page about a suspiciously large range of issues. Internal disagreement was rare. The insular community served as an incubator of extreme, irrational views.

High on their own supply, activists in these organizing circles end up developing a crusader mentality: an extreme self-righteousness based on the conviction that they are doing the secular equivalent of God's work. It isn't about ego or elevating oneself. In fact, the activists I knew and I tended to denigrate ourselves more than anything. It wasn’t about us, it was about the desperately needed work we were doing, it was about the people we were trying to help. The danger of the crusader mentality is that it turns the world in a battle between good and evil. Actions that would otherwise seem extreme and crazy become natural and expected. I didn't think twice about doing a lot of things I would never do today.

All emphases added.

The left is always on patrol for heretics, and will use actual violence to punish them.

In the current controversy, no one on the left seems willing to ask some basic questions:

If a minority of bakers refuses services to gay weddings, what actual damage befalls gays? There are still many, many more bakers who will bake them their cakes. So what is the actual harm?

They never answer this question -- they never ask it, so they couldn't answer it -- but the actual answer would be: "The harm is finding out that someone disagrees with my Sacred Belief on gay marriage."

To which I say: Get over it, Sally. A lot of people disagree with you about a lot of things. The fact that you're hysterical about it and also quite cruel -- the way that only a weakling can be truly cruel, when he finally gets a bit of power over someone -- is not a good reason to let you beat someone around using the law as your cudgel.

What is being pursued here is not gays' right to have wedding cake. They have this, of course, and do not need the law's insistence to get it.

What is being pursued here is hardcore gay-identity crusaders' insistence that no one has the right to disagree with them on their Sacred Belief, and that the law can and should be perverted into punishing ThoughtCrimes.

What we are seeing here is the enforcement of a new religious code, one which puts "secular" leftist values at the center of religious dogma, and then uses the power of the state to punish heretics, apostates, and blasphemers.

It is ugly, cruel, and stupid, as are most things the left wants.

As I keep saying, never let a weakling get a taste of power. They've had no experience with it and do not understand that power must be exercised, if at all, with restraint and regard for the rights and feelings of human beings.

The weakling given power is nothing but vengeance and cruelty.

Incidentally-- Are there any beliefs on the left which have not been sacralized?

That is, do they have any beliefs which are open to question without inviting their typical full-spectrum punishment regime, from group coordinated stigmatization to pursuit in the courts?

Posted by: Ace at 03:49 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 That's where Ace has been.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (48QDY)

2 Wall of words. Must read.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (evdj2)

3 I haven't seen this movie yet.

Posted by: NCKate at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (y63s1)

4 Some people want "fair" more than "free."

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (MMC8r)

5 First? Really? Just turned the 'puter on!

Posted by: jwb7605 at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (ZALPg)

6 Well you Morons ask for it

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at March 31, 2015 03:52 PM (R8hU8)

7 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 03:52 PM (kff5f)

8 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (kff5f)

9
As we just learned for the hundredth time: tolerance and discrimination are one-way streets.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (FRLeJ)

10 Maybe if we're all really quiet Moo Moo won't show up to call us all a bunch of bible thumping gay bashers.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (MYCIw)

11 Posted by: NCKate at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (y63s1)

Braver than I.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (48QDY)

12 I find all this so depressing, knowing as I do that serious fundamental political difference always end up being settled the traditional and time honored way; with murder, and lots of it.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (evdj2)

13 It's like you read my last comment and then wrote a whole lot of extra words.

I expect a mooodown to commence soon.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (g1DWB)

14 I can feel the boiling, the steam..

*looks down*

OMG it's the stomped threaders!

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at March 31, 2015 03:54 PM (TPjwz)

15 with murder, and lots of it.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (evdj2)
Yup

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at March 31, 2015 03:54 PM (R8hU8)

16 This is not "tolerance." This is, at best, simply the replacement of one set of bigotries and hatreds with the
left's favored set of bigotries and hatreds.


Yep. We're not arguing process, only details.

The trolls in the last thread demand that certain beliefs be adhered to and other ones be ignored because of what they favor.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 03:54 PM (MMC8r)

17 And to the barrel for the first on the last thread to post nood.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 03:54 PM (48QDY)

18 May we live in interesting times.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 03:54 PM (evdj2)

19 Can I watch this on Netflix?

Posted by: dantesed at March 31, 2015 03:54 PM (88xKn)

20
I loved that movie too....

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at March 31, 2015 03:54 PM (HSmrB)

21 Why can't we all get along? besides me of course.

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 03:55 PM (Spluw)

22 Posted toward the end of the last thread, so here goes again:

People who insist on making what should be their private proclivities my business may discover they don't care much for how I conduct my business.

Posted by: jwpaine at March 31, 2015 03:55 PM (a3NCX)

23 Mind if I smoke?

(looks around)

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at March 31, 2015 03:55 PM (TPjwz)

24
From a political view, the campaign the Left executed was brilliant.

They managed to impose their radical social will upon the American people by framing it as an issue of tolerance and anti-discrimination.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 03:55 PM (FRLeJ)

25 Someone should really write a book about this. Maybe give it a catchy title.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 03:55 PM (gmeXX)

26 Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 03:53 PM (evdj2)

There's one way to guarantee political stability, but the commies ain't gonna like it.

Posted by: The Pinochet Solution at March 31, 2015 03:56 PM (lJJaE)

27 Kicking the Puppy.

Dibs on it for my next band name.

Posted by: f at March 31, 2015 03:56 PM (l1zOH)

28 "Maybe give it a catchy title."

Sex, Lies, and Wedding Cake.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 03:56 PM (MYCIw)

29 I've got blisters on my fingers!

Posted by: Ringo at March 31, 2015 03:56 PM (wAQA5)

30
Christianity is about turning the other cheek.

Mohammadism is about cutting your throat if you don't accept their ideas as superior.

This goes a long way toward understanding the targeting of Christianity.

The other primary reason Christianity is the target? The left's goal of not facing the consequences of sin.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (BbwTO)

31 What we are seeing here is the enforcement of a new religious code, one which puts "secular" leftist values at the center of religious dogma, and then uses the power of the state to punish heretics, apostates, and blasphemers.

Highly libertarian, according to some commenters in the earlier thread.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (2Ojst)

32
Ace, if you want to marry a man, I wd support you 100%. I would even give you a used butt plug as your "something old".

Posted by: Bruce J. at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (iQIUe)

33 Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 03:55 PM (FRLeJ)

Winning!

Oh, wait!

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (48QDY)

34 >>They managed to impose their radical social will upon the American people by framing it as an issue of tolerance and anti-discrimination.

Alinsky. Make them live up to their principles. Because conservatives are by and large tolerant.

It's liberals and other statists that are the most intolerant people on the planet.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (g1DWB)

35 Chariot of the Cods

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (evdj2)

36
The weakling given power is nothing but vengeance and cruelty.

but enough about King Joffrey...

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (iv3H6)

37 In the current controversy, no one on the left seems willing to ask some basic questions:

They also never ask (or answer):

By what moral authority does the Government force me to engage in any particular economic activity in which I do not wish to engage?

If such moral authority exists, then what (if any) moral authority constrains the Government from acting in any part of my life?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 03:57 PM (kff5f)

38 Moo moo is too busy making quadruple whatever you made last year - and he did it in one hour.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 03:58 PM (gmeXX)

39 Now that I have my smart ass comment out of the way

Powerful thread/writing ace.

Posted by: f at March 31, 2015 03:58 PM (l1zOH)

40 "I don't disagree with those who refuse to serve gay weddings, and I don't necessarily agree with them, either. I don't have to."

Nature abhors vacuums. Since you like to have NO opinion, you will be forced to have one, obviously the one the left wants.

What part of 'you will be made to care' you don't understand?

Posted by: fromabroad at March 31, 2015 03:58 PM (rnV3B)

41 Not entirely off-topic, and possibly enlightening, but I was struck by a recent rant against Sad Puppies 3 in which the ranter ranted that fixed, written rules for things like nominating and voting for the Hugos were bad because their fixed writtenness means an evil league of evil like the Sad Puppies folks can game the rules. Implication being that non-fixed rules (like Who's Hot and Who's Not) are to be preferred because the elite goalkeepers can move the goalposts to keep evildoers out.

For some reason, it makes me think of that Gibbs spokesidiot who, during the first Obama term, kept talking about keeping a boot on the neck of the capitalists as if that were a good thing.


Posted by: Anachronda at March 31, 2015 03:58 PM (o78gS)

42 "? The left's goal of not facing the consequences of sin."

The left doesn't even want to acknowledge the existence of sin.

My lefty mother tried to stop us from playing Amazing Grace at my grandmother's funeral because "I don't really like that whole "wretch" part."

Thankfully, grandma's best friend stepped in and said grandma had specifically said it was a song she wanted played, so we overrode my lefty mom, but it's there.

Sin is icky and uncomfortable.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 03:58 PM (MYCIw)

43 3 I haven't seen this movie yet.
Posted by: NCKate at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (y63s1)

-------

hahaha

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (A98Xu)

44 My agreement with his decisions or speech -- my disgust with it -- my sympathies for it -- my hatred of it -- irrelevant, because I am not weighing in on the speech or decision itself -- merely whether I believe an American has a right to so speak or so decide.
*****
yeah, that's the whole point, there's sure to be an example that makes you uncomfortable. But if that person. a person. has his values be that way, then let him do it.

Teh SJW-ghey mafia will not stop there. I mean, I don't know how much more ground they need to conquer, but I like these protections because being fined $100K because I refuse to do something inline with my conscience is not American.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (th6S/)

45 It's easy to tolerate someone who simply disagrees with you or doesn't like the thing you like.

But the Left has been indoctrinated to believe that :

I don't agree with you = I HATE YOU

therefore Haters must be vanquished

Posted by: McCool at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (TQxRy)

46 Wow, another thread on this topic. Nice! I'm getting a feeling of "ghey ja vu".

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (NeFrd)

47 What's the harm in not wanting to bake a cake for a gay wedding even though the majority of bakers will do t AND you can order cakes online?. The harm is someone's feelings may get hurt and it's not o.k. to have your feeling hurt if you are part of a leftist protected class. I think that's in the Constitution somewhere/sarc.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (DXzRD)

48
Ace, two volume work that explains so much:
Earthly Powers
Sacred Causes


By Michael Burleigh. He shows throughout history how leftist governments try to replace religion with worship of the state.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (BbwTO)

49 We've waited long enough!

Posted by: National Animal Boy Love Association at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (TPjwz)

50 Pour it down
Scatter the rocks
Salt the rim of the glass where it stood

Posted by: dirty comma at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (e0JlW)

51 Mynewhandle to the barrel.

See 17

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (48QDY)

52
This is not "tolerance." This is, at best, simply the replacement of one set of bigotries and hatreds with the
left's favored set of bigotries and hatreds.


That's it in le nutshell.

Posted by: eleven at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (ykfyK)

53 It's a gay day. Remember when the days usually started off with some good old breaking gay news?

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (NUqwG)

54 My God!

It's full of Link.

Posted by: Garrett at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (YN5AI)

55 This is all largely irrelevant as the courts and the elites more and more are in total control of the levers and once the elites decided the gay agenda could be used to further erode Weatern Civilization that glommed onto that.

Witness how the courts are now completely in control of the very definition of marriage.

They merely seek the deligitimazation and practice of the Christian religion. Nothing else will assuage their lust to destroy and control.

Posted by: Kreplach at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (vDp2x)

56 If only those pesky socons hadn't gotten involved.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (gmeXX)

57 >>>I haven't seen this movie yet.

Posted by: NCKate at March 31, 2015 03:51 PM (y63s1)<<<

Haaaaated it.

Posted by: Blaine Edwards and Antoine Merriweather (Men on Film) at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (DC3uV)

58
No, they are instead claiming we must embrace the things they love, and hate -- and persecute -- the things they hate.

Same extends to criticism of obama! If you're not on board with obama, it's because he's black and therefore you're a racist.

It's all bullshit. PC Bullying bullshit.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (iv3H6)

59 do not understand that power must be exercised, if at all, with restraint and regard for the rights and feelings of human beings.

Oh they understand it, they just don't consider those who disagree with them human beings.

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (9221z)

60 From the length of it Ace must have been in a cave having revelations.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (oDCMR)

61 From dead thread.

You think this shit is out of control? Try to sell real estate.


HUD
REQUIRES you to include Blacks in your ads or you can be sued. REQUIRES
you to include their logo and a non discrimination disclaimer.



Then
they send out fake buyers to try and catch you in some sort of
discriminatory act. Then they troll apt owners, usually small ones, with
various ploys to "Discover" discrimination.



Yes, the Gestapo is already here.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (0FSuD)

62 Is today Gay Cake Tuesday or something?

Anyways, I have to go do the dishes. In a heterosexual way.

Catch you cats on the flip side.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (AkOaV)

63 My lefty mother tried to stop us from playing Amazing Grace at my grandmother's funeral because "I don't really like that whole "wretch" part."

i totally get that this is your mother, but if it was one of my relations, I'd probably be saying aloud, "then don't look in any mirrors". Avoiding contact with the Bible is probably a smart move while you're at it".

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (Spluw)

64 And it all started with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which Goldwater said was unconstitutional. .He was right and the courts recently agreed with him.


So why heven't they struck they entire law down? Because the liberals don't give a crap about the Constitution.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (wlDny)

65 I will not get over it, Ace.

Posted by: Sally Kohn at March 31, 2015 04:02 PM (YN5AI)

66 From the length of it Ace must have been in a cave having revelations.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (oDCMR)

Or in a Dutch Oven hallucinating

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 31, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)

67 That's not the claim, Old Bean. That's the entire point.

It's <i>a</i> point, but it's not the <i>entire</i> point.
http://is.gd/f9SRik

Note points 4, and 7.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 04:02 PM (/kI1Q)

68 >>Same extends to criticism of obama! If you're not on board with obama, it's because he's black and therefore you're a racist.

Hector let the mask slip last thread. You don't agree with me on illegal immigration therefore you hate all Latinos and want to exterminate them.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:02 PM (g1DWB)

69 "The paradox is that even as America has become more tolerant of gays,
many activists and liberals have become ever-more intolerant of anyone
who might hold more traditional cultural or religious views."

Bingo.

But it's not just religion - look at the activists against fossil fuels wanting to force you into a clown car, vegans warring against livestock, anti-smokers attempting to make smoking in your own damn house illegal, etc.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (TLTHv)

70 Posted by: Nip Sip at March 31, 2015 04:01 PM (0FSuD)

Oh yeah.

Someone bring up redlining and "steering" while I'm doing woman work.

Shits absurd. Realtors can get sued if they tell a client which neighbors are good and which aren't, because thats steering white people in one direction and (I guess?!) black people in another.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (AkOaV)

71 It's going to get so bad that people will demand the benevolent caliphate.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (zauWW)

72 leftist governments try to replace religion with worship of the state

----

humans are hardwired to believe in the fall of man and the need for redemption. You can find redemption in God and be content. Or you can find it in the state - and you will never be content.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (gmeXX)

73 P.S Lauren

we still want SLUG stories.

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (Spluw)

74 lol, just think if we flip 10% of "naturally conservative" blacks and latinos on these issues, then it's back to the hypothetical hysterical end result that lives in the minds of these hags.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (th6S/)

75 No need to sweat to tears. Nothing a bloody civil war can't solve.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (NUqwG)

76 I am Rolling in it BABEEEE

Posted by: Mr. Poo Poo at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (fLKzW)

77 "I don't disagree with those who refuse to serve gay weddings, and I don't necessarily agree with them, either. I don't have to."

So you would sell your convictions for a dollar?

Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 04:03 PM (kQBSd)

78 If someone used the force of the government to impel me to bake a cake, I'd make sure it would taste far worse than shit.

"You said I had to bake you a cake. Nobody said it had to be delicious"

Posted by: kbdabear at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (GrXXa)

79 OT, But it's about Kerry defending a criminal:

http://tinyurl.com/ohhc5lm

They solved 25 year old Gardner Museum art heist.

Liveshot was defendants attorney.

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (sj3Ax)

80 >>I haven't seen this movie yet


From the look if it, it's going straight to video.

Posted by: Garrett at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (YN5AI)

81 >>.Nature abhors vacuums. Since you like to have NO opinion, you will be forced to have one, obviously the one the left wants.

What part of 'you will be made to care' you don't understand?

...

you may be right about the basically stupid animal nature of man, but that doesn't mean I want to care about YOUR list of Sacred Beliefs, either.

I am not interested in being made to care about your dogmas, either.

Not to say that the left won't compel me to buy into theirs- - but why do you think I should be agreeable to being made to buy into yours?

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (PA7DS)

82 Ace, please don't use the term "liberal" when writing about hardcore leftist totalitarians.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (WGm5T)

83 If someone used the force of the government to impel me to bake a cake, I'd make sure it would taste far worse than shit.

And the wedding pictures would probably look like the Batman (old TV show) school of photography

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (Spluw)

84 Why fight it out in the open? Use discrimination as it is best used. Just be too busy. Just tell anyone that you don't like, that you are all booked up, your barber shears are broken, you've got a tooth ache, you are out of cake mix, out of batteries for your camera, out of film, whatever, for what ever occasion might offend your religious/moral/personal-taste sensibilities. There is no winning this polarizing fight. We are way too outnumbered. I can hear the first debate question being asked right now. What a trap.

Posted by: goon at March 31, 2015 04:05 PM (A53Jp)

85 I demand Cake Girl, and want a law stating she must be present on all posts relating to cakes.

Posted by: typical Moron at March 31, 2015 04:05 PM (DC3uV)

86
What is being pursued here is not gays' right to have wedding cake. They have this, of course, and do not need the law's insistence to get it.
.................................
That's right. They can learn to bake.

Posted by: wth at March 31, 2015 04:05 PM (wAQA5)

87 "we still want SLUG stories."

Haha, ok well here's one that I've sort of mentioned before but is highly illustrative of the campus culture.

I was drinking with some of the other girls before a big school sanctioned party and we were playing never have I ever.

(No, sorry this story doesn't get *too* interesting)

Anyway, one of the girls says "Never have I ever gotten an honor code violation for sleeping with a prospect" and two girls had to drink.

So, yeah.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (MYCIw)

88 The Gay Mafia: You Will Be Made To Care

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (ZPrif)

89 If I was compelled by Law to make a Homo Cake it would taste like shit..... by design.

Posted by: Genghis Cohen at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (fLKzW)

90

You want General Washington
You will settle for General Pinochet
You will get Colonel Gaddafi

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (evdj2)

91

Hector let the mask slip last thread. You don't agree with me on illegal immigration therefore you hate all Latinos and want to exterminate them.


Mask slip? That's his whole schtick.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (MMC8r)

92 Correct. You hardly ever even hear the left mention tolerance any more. It was one of their repeated buzz words in the 90s but they don't even say it now days. In fact, I've heard several say they think tolerance is wrong and people shouldn't tolerate bad stuff.

And like the cries of racism, this stuff about homosexuals has nothing to actually do with homosexuals. It has to do with a small elite controlling a much larger majority of people. Its about silencing and controlling people, its about getting everyone to shut up and obey.

Black people don't give a damn about the use of the n-word (I hate that term but pixy throws a fit if you use it. Swear all you want but not that word. The new morality) in Blazing Saddles. They think its hilarious. They're rolling in the aisles laughing while all the white people in the audience are stiff and worried, explaining themselves. This whole push is not about the groups they are claiming to protect at all.

Its about power and control.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (39g3+)

93 Progressiveism is now a religion for a lot of people who have no other religion. You see it in their fervor to force their lifestyle choices on the rest of us.

You don't like Christians trying to force their values on you?
OK, but stop trying to force *your* values on me, progressives!

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (TLTHv)

94
"Hast thou no scar?

No hidden scar on foot, or side, or hand?

I hear thee sung as mighty in the land;

I hear them hail thy bright, ascendant star.

Hast thou no scar?

Hast thou no wound?

Yet I was wounded by the archers; spent,

Leaned Me against a tree to die; and rent

By ravening beasts that compassed Me, I swooned.

Hast thou no wound?

No wound? No scar?

Yet, as the Master shall the servant be,

and pierced are the feet that follow me

But thine are whole; can he have followed far

Who has not wound or scar?"
-Amy Carmichael (The grizzled drill sergeant of Christian poetry and writing. She was a pretty tough bird and an amazing saint.)

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (k8xvx)

95 no offense to anyone, but just because fromunder doesn't seem to understand:

I don't want to be made to bow to any cult's god, whether the God of the Left or your version of a traditional god.

I don't get people who rush in to say "See, the left's bullying you to worship their god is precisely why you must be made to worship ours."

Do you not see the problem? I'm not interested in ANY gods.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (PA7DS)

96 goon at March 31, 2015 04:05 PM (A53Jp)

Why not just make a shitty cake?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (g1DWB)

97 "You said I had to bake you a cake. Nobody said it had to be delicious"
--
But then they can sue for civil rights violations.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 04:07 PM (ZPrif)

98 I find all this so depressing, knowing as I do that serious fundamental political difference always end up being settled the traditional and time honored way; with murder, and lots of it.
Posted by: toby928



And in the time honored reply,
"Don't start none, won't be none".


But they just can't leave it alone.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 04:07 PM (DXB+X)

99 "But the Left has been indoctrinated to believe that :



I don't agree with you = I HATE YOU



therefore Haters must be vanquished





Posted by: McCool at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (TQxRy)"
---------------Because that is how they think. If the leftist doesn't agree with you, they hate you.

To a hammer, the whole world is a nail.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at March 31, 2015 04:07 PM (WGm5T)

100
Teh SJW-ghey mafia will not stop there. I mean, I don't know how much more ground they need to conquer, but I like these protections because being fined $100K because I refuse to do something inline with my conscience is not American.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at March 31, 2015 03:59 PM (th6S/)

I think they want to force ALL churches to host gay marriage and like it. Because if you don't like gay marriage, you are a vile, disgusting hater, and must be eliminated. Whether it's financially, or otherwise, remains to be seen.


I was not really against gay marriage in the beginning-if they want to get married, fine. Just don't ask me and my church to bless it. But now they are demanding that. So I am becoming a little tired of the special snowflakes.

ANd for the record, if polygamy is deemed constitutional, just think of all the military/foreign service housing the government will be required to provide, much less the welfare. Slippery slopes don't exist, my ass.

Posted by: Moki at March 31, 2015 04:07 PM (x303I)

101
The left is always on patrol for heretics, and will use actual violence to punish them.









Ice axe? What ice axe?

Posted by: Zombie Ramon Mercader at March 31, 2015 04:07 PM (SpnVI)

102
We heard this same bullshit during obamacare -- if you oppose it, you're against health care for the poor.

Do you know why the Left keeps using this line of head-game bully-arguing? Because it works. It sends the Republicans running for cover.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:07 PM (iv3H6)

103 The issue is that pro-gay marriage activists aren't winning quickly enough in the court of public opinion. IE, there is still this stubborn 45-48% of adult Americans who don't like gay marriage.

Instead of being patient and playing the "long game" (because young people. . .ie future voters are overwhelmingly pro gay marriage), they resort to fascism.

Personally, I have no objection to same-sex marriage. . .marriage is an agreement between individuals. . .but I loathe this idea that it has to be pushed down our throats, or that anyone who is opposed to it is some sort of hater.

Posted by: Looking closely at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (ji45d)

104 >>humans are hardwired to believe in the fall of man and the need for redemption.


Yeah, No.

Posted by: Garrett at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (YN5AI)

105 (No, sorry this story doesn't get *too* interesting) Anyway, one of the girls says "Never have I ever gotten an honor code violation for sleeping with a prospect" and two girls had to drink. So, yeah.

(trying to puzzle out how the game is played)........wow. And how many drinks did YOU have?

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (Spluw)

106 Why fight it out in the open? Use discrimination as it is best used. Just be too busy

Because when homosexual activist lad shows up he's not wearing a pink lamme half shirt with dildos around his neck like a lei. He says he wants a cake, then when he starts to describe it, that's when you find out what kind.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (39g3+)

107 Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (PA7DS)

"You will be made to care" comes from (I think) an Erick Ericson piece- where he was basically saying that the Left won't allow people to say "Hey, guess what? I don't have to have an opinion."

I believe the comment was a reference to that, not a direct statement actually to you.

Posted by: goon at March 31, 2015 04:05 PM (A53Jp)

Because the same person who believes it would be a sin to support a gay wedding also believes it would be a sin to lie.

It is (literally) damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (kff5f)

108 The sans-culottes are ready for their revolution to re-commence, I am very much afraid.

Because the last time they tried it, it ended so very, very, very well.

Posted by: filbert at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (h6Mpm)

109 Do you not see the problem?

-----

Ace I see the problem, but I'm not sure you see the solutions are different. The left will impost a solution upon you whether you want it or not. I don't see that from the right. We may suggest a path for you - but you have free will and can do what you wish.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (gmeXX)

110 Excellent post ace.

Posted by: Heralder at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (/Mxso)

111 "
Not to say that the left won't compel me to buy into theirs- - but why do you think I should be agreeable to being made to buy into yours? "

You don't, but you'll be forced to take sides. "Neutral" isn't an option that you're allowed to have. Which is so stupid because as I've pointed out all day, the law isn't about gay cakes. It's about the feds stealing eagle feathers from Indian tribes and prisoners getting kosher meals.

You don't have to be an Indian or a Jew to support those things, and you don't have to be a Christian to support the bakers. You do have to care though. You're with the SJWs or against them.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (MYCIw)

112
Is today Gay Cake Tuesday or something?
..................................
Actually it's more like Sell Out America Tuesday. Good thing no one is paying attention.

Posted by: John Kerry at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (wAQA5)

113
As Ace says above, we shouldn't be afraid to admit what we want.

Yet we bite our tongues and tailor our public sentiment to fit the pc rules set by our political enemies. Makes no sense.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:08 PM (iv3H6)

114 There's a eclectic place here in town that's owned by a hard-left collective. They host events there all the time. Progressive artists, progressive musicians, progressive causes in general. The place is hired out at least three or four times a week and they frequently provide food. By their own logic they can not deny my hiring the venue for a "Pray out the gay" event. And they would have to cater it.

Posted by: Crabtree at March 31, 2015 04:09 PM (6/AGO)

115 A certain segment of human, call them the Mooks, are only happy when they are forcing others to violate their conscience, to bend the knee. They literally get a little Fascism Boner every time they can compel someone to do the very thing they hate the most.

It's why they want to force nuns to pay for abortion. Or force an evangelical to bake a gay wedding cake.

These people are scum, of course, and it's unfortunate they exist. But they do.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 04:09 PM (ZPrif)

116 Are there any beliefs on the left which have not been sacralized?


That is, do they have any beliefs which are open to question without
inviting their typical full-spectrum punishment regime, from group
coordinated stigmatization to pursuit in the courts?



Nope.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at March 31, 2015 04:09 PM (wtvvX)

117 Freedom of assembly should also allow for freedom from assembling -IMO. I'd like for a state to come out and say "no shop can refuse to serve people who come in the door but everyone has the right to refuse to provide services to private gatherings.

And to argue to extreme what if I were a caterer and some dude tries to get me to cater some event at his house but I get a bad vibe in my gut that he is a serial killer Am I supposed to ignore my gut feeling because I can't refuse to provide a service?





Posted by: PaleRider at March 31, 2015 04:09 PM (dkExz)

118
there are many people -- most, alas -- who are too stupid to distinguish between "I like doing x" and "I support YOUR RIGHT to do x."

Most people are simply stupid. This is a fact. Most people support your right to x if and only if they themselves do x and enjoy x. Most people are opposed to your right to x if they themselves don't like x or enjoy x.

I am proposing that religious people should have the right to do x, whether or not I actually enjoy x myself.

But for some, like fromunder, that's not enough -- I must join him in enjoying x as well.

This is stupid. I seek an escape from stupidity, and not being further bound up in it.


Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:09 PM (PA7DS)

119 Yup, which is why The Left here in the West has such an affinity for The Muslims. Because islam does not brook any dissent from their sacred dogmas, and if dissent is detected the punishment is death.

That and The Left is basically Pajama Boy and his fellow travelers, and they are weaklings who are fascinated with the raw power exercised by The Muslims.

Posted by: Boots at March 31, 2015 04:09 PM (l9mF2)

120 96 goon at March 31, 2015 04:05 PM (A53Jp)

Why not just make a shitty cake?
Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (g1DWB)


I don't want to do bad work. That leans in on my reputation as a _______ (fill in the blanks). I will though choose for whom I do my good work.

Posted by: goon at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (A53Jp)

121 Well if the reports are true and Pence is caving, he's just disqualified himself for higher office.

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (9221z)

122 >>humans are hardwired to believe in the fall of man and the need for redemption.


Yeah, No.

----

Disagree? Every culture has believed this. The left believes this.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (gmeXX)

123 I'm not interested in ANY gods.

There is the Tantric goddess Shakti who channels female sexual energy.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (JtwS4)

124 Pick the target. Freeze it. Polarize it.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (ZPrif)

125 My last patient is late. Every fruckin time

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (rDqRv)

126 "ing to puzzle out how the game is played)........wow. And how many drinks did YOU have?"

I'll plead the 5th. The game is played by going around in a circle and saying "Never have I ever done X" anyone who has done X has to drink. It can be generic or you can use it to call out your friend's shameful behavior. My story was an example of the latter.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (MYCIw)

127 >>>You don't, but you'll be forced to take sides. "Neutral" isn't an option that you're allowed to have. Which is so stupid because as I've pointed out all day, the law isn't about gay cakes. It's about the feds stealing eagle feathers from Indian tribes and prisoners getting kosher meals.

I'm not neutral -- I'm pro-freedom.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (PA7DS)

128 Do you know why the Left keeps using this line of head-game bully-arguing? Because it works. It sends the Republicans running for cover.
***
that's the thing,eh?
1. if the GOP can't fight this then 2016 is dead because the left will make up whatever it wants then too.
2. It's amazing what 100 PR activists and a few twitter accounts can do.
3. embrace the evil because it will forever be imputed on us. Go to the POC core of DNC voting and say the donkeys love gheys. For every Lena Dunham we lose, maybe they'll lose a voter who just won't show up. who knows.
4. it's a losing fight if the donks are willing to throw any piece of USA heritage or even territory on to bonfire if they think they can whip up a pathos driven media barrage.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (th6S/)

129 Ace,

You've said you're done with the GOP and somewhat unhappy with politics at the moment.

So make a religion for the Moron Horde.

Islam has one advantage that it is a religion, a legal system, -and- a war policy all in one ball.

New religion sins:
speaking politically correctly.
accepting a Leftist talking point.
failure to have a CC permit

New religion holidays:
First Amendment Day, (aka Say Something Offensive or Draw Mohammed, etc.)
Second Amendment Day,

New religion penances:
Sleep with a ginger
Pint of val-u-rite.
teach someone firearms safety


That is: Design a religion -specifically- to stick in the craw of the Powers That Be.

Posted by: Alan at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (uq4RW)

130 I'll plead the 5th. The game is played by going around in a circle and saying "Never have I ever done X" anyone who has done X has to drink. It can be generic or you can use it to call out your friend's shameful behavior. My story was an example of the latter.
Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (MYCIw)

Never have I ever played never have I ever.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (2Ojst)

131 I'll plead the 5th. The game is played by going around in a circle and saying "Never have I ever done X" anyone who has done X has to drink. It can be generic or you can use it to call out your friend's shameful behavior. My story was an example of the latter.

hehe. Kinda what i thought. heh heh.
Morons thank you.

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (Spluw)

132 But for some, like fromunder, that's not enough -- I must join him in enjoying x as well.

-----

What did he say - was it on an old thread - I don't see it here.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (gmeXX)

133
This is EXACTLY what happened before.

We are replaying, frame by frame, Arizona's 1071 anti-illegal-invader bill.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (iv3H6)

134 if you are saying I cannot support the "Christian position" without embracing Christianity, then here's my response: Then I no longer support the Christian position.

Be very careful of what you demand as the price of someone *supporting* you. If you have their support, that should be enough. If you then go demanding even more than that, expect that the answer that will then come will be "Well then go piss all over yourselves."

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (PA7DS)

135

All you have to do is remember that many "left-leaning" gays will not acknowledge or frequent "conservative" gay establishments.

In fact, some will trash the place.

It can go deeper than gay vs non-gay, but politics to the core.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:11 PM (IXrOn)

136 Well if the reports are true and Pence is caving, he's just disqualified himself for higher office.
***
It's true. apologies, when they come from republicans, are just career suicide letters.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (th6S/)

137 The game is played by going around in a circle and saying "Never have I ever done X" anyone who has done X has to drink. It can be generic or you can use it to call out your friend's shameful behavior. My story was an example of the latter.
Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (MYCIw)


After hearing some Camp Stories about girls, I definetaly think Girls are more perverted than Guys. ANd thank G-D for that!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (rDqRv)

138 We've lost the country. It sucks, but it is what it is. Electing republicans won't fix it. Nothing will. This is just how our moment in history will play out. Could it swing back the other way in a few decades? Maybe, but unlikely. In the meantime, it is what it is.

Media, Immigration, Education...has been the triangle of death that has altered the culture of America.

Posted by: Dan at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (COpZ4)

139 125 My last patient is late. Every fruckin timeThat's why they call it patience.

Posted by: eleven at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (ykfyK)

140 121 Well if the reports are true and Pence is caving, he's just disqualified himself for higher office.
--------------------------------------------------

And that was part of the plan all along. Winnow the Republican field of likely candidates.

Example: Rubio falling for Chuck Shumer's Shamnesty deal.

Posted by: Boots at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (l9mF2)

141 Did somebody say gutter? *hic*

Posted by: Hillarrhoids at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (wAQA5)

142 Very well put, ace.

The only difference is that the left loves The Gayz

If there is one thing that the last few days have made crystalline clear to me, it's that an enormous number of people on both sides of the aisle sure as hell hate me.

Duly noted.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (mf5HN)

143 Christianity is about turning the other cheek.Mohammadism is about cutting your throat if you don't accept their ideas as superior.This goes a long way toward understanding the targeting of Christianity.The other primary reason Christianity is the target? The left's goal of not facing the consequences of sin.

=================

Sorta.

I look towards the Roman experience and why they persecuted both Drudis and Christians and Jews, while embracing every other wacko cult in their empire.

Without getting into it too deeply, they did it because they threatened their social fabric in some crucial way. Jews and Christians would not offer worship to the Emperors, the Druids regarded gold as Holy and it was sacrilege to use it as money, esp. with a false god's face on it.

Christianity threatens the Left's social fabric in a way that Islam, for example, does *not*. That's the nub of the issue.

Posted by: Bigby's Ring Finger at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (3ZtZW)

144 Listening to Gov Pence today was disheartening. We lost. A common sense law was made to sound draconian and everyone fell in line. Pathetic

Posted by: Genghis Cohen at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (fLKzW)

145 97 "You said I had to bake you a cake. Nobody said it had to be delicious"

But then they can sue for civil rights violations.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 04:07 PM (ZPrif)

"Well your honor, the Muslim baker I hired to satisfy those who demanded I hire a Muslim must not have been at his best when he worked on that cake"

Posted by: kbdabear at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (GrXXa)

146 >>That is: Design a religion -specifically- to stick in the craw of the Powers That Be.

Moronism. Not to be confused with Mormonism. Which it won't be.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (g1DWB)

147 "I'm not neutral -- I'm pro-freedom."

Which means you're one of us unpeople of Jesusland in the eyes of the SJWs.

It's ok though, I'm pretty sure we'll bake you a cake even if you are a dirty yankee.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (MYCIw)

148
Disagree? Every culture has believed this. The left believes this.
Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:10 PM (gmeXX)

Interesting point, because they do. They differ on the particulars of what constitutes "fall" and "redemption" but they believe it hard.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (2Ojst)

149 How long until we're required to be gay?

Posted by: The Spelling Police at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (UlI/7)

150 Do you not see the problem? I'm not interested in ANY gods.

He's just arguing that's not a choice. You will worship some god, even if its just yourself.

there is still this stubborn 45-48% of adult Americans who don't like gay marriage

Its higher than that but you can get the results of any poll you want if you word and target it right.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (39g3+)

151 Posted by: Crabtree at March 31, 2015 04:09 PM (6/AGO)

When do tickets go on sale?

Ridicule. Turn that mess back on em. We need more ridicule.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (48QDY)

152 Witness how the courts are now completely in control of the very definition of marriage. They merely seek the deligitimazation and practice of the Christian religion. Nothing else will assuage their lust to destroy and control.
Posted by: Kreplach at March 31, 2015 04:00 PM (vDp2x)


----------------------------------------


Bring back the dowry. Make all legal arrangements before the marriage statement. Then have whatever ceremony you want. No "license" required. Just a public statement to others and to God your committment to your spouse.

Get the government out of marriage.

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (/HX7u)

153 >>>So make a religion for the Moron Horde.


you know i was watching "Going Clear," the HBO documentary about Scientology, and liked it so much I bought the book and have been reading it.

I did think that Hubbard had quite an insight when he realized, basically, that people will believe virtually anything stated with authority, and that you can get rich stating things with authority.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (PA7DS)

154 Christianity will be totally criminalized within my lifetime.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (+WXeq)

155 And that was part of the plan all along.

That would explain why no one is boycotting Utah.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (/kI1Q)

156 if you are saying I cannot support the "Christian position" without embracing Christianity, then here's my response: Then I no longer support the Christian position.

-----

May I ask who you are arguing with here? Who is this hypothetical you?

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (gmeXX)

157 Since 19 other state have the same law on the books as Indiana, why the fuss now? Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have a law making gays a protected class, but why now? Is it because Pence may be a presidential candidate? Why the fuss now?

Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (S+el1)

158 So make a religion for the Moron Horde.

See for possible reference: Sarah Hoyt's Usaians.

Posted by: filbert at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (h6Mpm)

159 I demand the Jewish deli put bacon and cheese on my pork chop sandwiches.

Posted by: wooga at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (AO98W)

160 Well if the reports are true and Pence is caving, he's just disqualified himself for higher office.

Damn. He has such Presidential Hair.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (evdj2)

161
All weekend I've been racking my brains trying to remember when we did this before. It just hit me -- AZ's SB1071 law.

Everything is the same. The action. The reaction. The walk-back.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (iv3H6)

162 According to Megan Kelley it isn't about gays

Kelly File
Miss Megyn on Indiana's Religious Freedom Law Controversy
Guest:Megyn Kelly
Indiana has passed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which some claim is discriminatory against gays and lesbians. The Factor asked anchor and attorney Megyn Kelly to elaborate on the law. "There are laws like this in at least 19 states," she reported. "They protect, for example, Muslim women who want to provide head scarves." Kelly suggested that liberal outrage is generally misguided. "In every case where someone didn't want to photograph or provide flowers to a gay wedding, the gays and lesbians have won and the person objecting on religious grounds has lost. This law will provide religious objectors an avenue to protect themselves, but nine times out of ten those disputes have nothing to do with gays and lesbians. This is not that controversial, but people who want to prove their bona fides on gay and lesbian rights are exploiting it."

Posted by: anon2020 at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (DEsFp)

163 >>>He's just arguing that's not a choice. You will worship some god, even if its just yourself.

rolling eyes

so every political discussion has to turn into a You Must Worship Jesus to Be Conservative thread?

whatever.


Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (PA7DS)

164 This is not about serving gays, this is about acceding to gays' (and non-gay Gay Enthusiasts') demeans that those who dissent with gay weddings nevertheless be forced to endorse them.


^^^^^^^^

This, exactly. And we are very quickly coming to the point where you cannot be a practicing traditional Christian and own a business. If I am disallowed from practicing my faith in public, and within the confines of my own business which is my physical and/or intellectual and/or artistic property, then I am being deprived of my religious liberty.

Anecdotally, I am Catholic and have one Catholic relative who used to run a cake business from her home, and one Catholic friend who used to run a photography service from her home as well. I say *used to* intentionally because when it became clear that Christians were being targeted and legally penalized for refusing to make specialty items for events that our faith specifically defines as sacrilegious they both closed up shop. Neither one can afford the legal entanglements that would come if they were targeted in one of these cases. So they have effectively been driven out of business because they tried to practice their faith.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (KkVB6)

165 Since 19 other state have the same law on the books as Indiana, why the fuss now? Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have a law making gays a protected class, but why now? Is it because Pence may be a presidential candidate? Why the fuss now?
Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (S+el1)

thought the number was like 27 other

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (rDqRv)

166 Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have a law making gays a protected class

I can't imagine that they're a protected class here in Alabama.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (evdj2)

167 How long until we're required to be gay?
Posted by: The Spelling Police at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (UlI/7)
-------
You won't have to 'be' gay just engage in a gay act every 5 years or so - like renewing a driving license.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (NUqwG)

168 >>>May I ask who you are arguing with here? Who is this hypothetical you?

fromunder or whatever his name is

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (PA7DS)

169 If the government could compel people to work then there would be no unemployment.

Posted by: NCKate at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (y63s1)

170 I did think that Hubbard had quite an insight when he realized, basically, that people will believe virtually anything stated with authority, and that you can get rich stating things with authority.


All hail Moronism, and its Head Ewok Ace.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (0NdlF)

171 Wrg500 #157

Because they haven't taken any heads in awhile. Because Hillary needs a distraction. Because they know that the right people will lie and connive and clutch at their pearls until the rest of the public is shamed into going along with it.

Posted by: Crabtree at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (6/AGO)

172 >>I did think that Hubbard had quite an insight when he realized, basically, that people will believe virtually anything stated with authority, and that you can get rich stating things with authority.

Himmler and various other Nazis got there first.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:15 PM (g1DWB)

173 >.Do you not see the problem? I'm not interested in ANY gods.


Agreed, I don't want to force my God on you.

It seems we can no longer choose the "live and let live" option; everything has become politicized. Now every institution, organization, and business feels compelled to make some sort of political statement siding with one view and making sure they're on record as not endorsing "those people."
It's all so tiresome, bracing for the next sucker punch, never knowing if it will happen at your kid's school, while watching a movie, or when selecting your phone or laptop. There is no escape.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (TLTHv)

174 157, the fuss is now because they needed a distraction from Hillary committing a federal crime as well as Obama giving Iran a nuke!

So they needed a liberal outrage cause celeb for a week or two.

Posted by: Dan at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (COpZ4)

175 Not to be confused with Mormonism.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (0NdlF)

176 so every political discussion has to turn into a You Must Worship Jesus to Be Conservative thread?

-----

I must say I am not seeing how you got to there - but I may have missed a comment or two.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (gmeXX)

177 The reason a really strong Christian baker won't sabotage or make a lousy cake as wags suggest is the same reason they don't want to make "gay wedding" cakes.

Because their religious beliefs call for them to do the best they can at what they do, to glorify God. By baking a good cake and selling it for an honest price, they are doing God's work on earth. It is a sacred calling, something they are honored to do. It would be dishonest and not glorifying God to do deliberately shoddy work.

These are salt of the earth, these are people who make the economy run. These are people you'd be glad to work with and have running a business in your town. And that's why they're the enemy.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (39g3+)

178 There is no principle here. The zealots are not claiming that we must be
tolerant towards all -- that is a principle most could agree with.


I used to believe that. But it's because I bought the left's lie that tolerance is somehow American. It is not. The truth is America worked because we had a general agreement on our values and purpose, and it worked better than the backwards peoples of europe, because those values and purpose were superior to theirs.

Tolerance has served no purpose other than to allow people who have no stock in America to walk all over us. And it needs to end.

Or I suppose we can all just shut up and pay the left's jizzya

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (ZbV+0)

179 I did think that Hubbard had quite an insight when he realized, basically, that people will believe virtually anything stated with authority, and that you can get rich stating things with authority.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (PA7DS)



This is the major reason why I was so disappointed in The Master. It was right on the edge of showing, not telling, precisely that and then it didn't quite get there.

Of course, the volcano erupting didn't help either but still.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (mf5HN)

180 my personal example is...is a dry cleaner required to clean the hoods of the local KKK boys.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (/eTPT)

181 "you are saying I cannot support the "Christian position" without embracing Christianity, then here's my response: Then I no longer support the Christian position. "

Not at all. Just that you can't (as in, you will not be allowed to by the SJWs) support the Christian position without being tarred with all of the slurs that are aimed in our direction. We thank you for taking up our cause, but warn that your secularism will not spare you from their vitriol.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (MYCIw)

182 so every political discussion has to turn into a You Must Worship Jesus to Be Conservative thread?

-----

I must say I am not seeing how you got to there - but I may have missed a comment or two.
Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:16 PM (gmeXX)


I'm pretty conservative and I don't even know Jesus. Is he a Knicks fan?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (rDqRv)

183
you know i was watching "Going Clear," the HBO documentary about Scientology, and liked it so much I bought the book and have been reading it.


I watched some of it. It, like the other HBO documentaries, seemed extremely biased. It was like watching a Michael Moore 'documentary.'

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (iv3H6)

184 Hector let the mask slip last thread. You don't agree with me on illegal immigration therefore you hate all Latinos and want to exterminate them.
---------------
Model A Kafkatrap, which has been discussed here previously:

“Your refusal to acknowledge that you are guilty of {sin, racism, sexism, homophobia, oppression…} confirms that you are guilty of {sin,racism,sexism, homophobia,oppression…}.”

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (l1zOH)

185 The only difference is that the left loves The Gayz and hates, allegedly, Nazis.

I don't get this at all...

Posted by: Ernst Rohm at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (2Ojst)

186 Totally unrelated: new Mad Max film looks better every new trailer that comes out. Its going to be glorious.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (39g3+)

187 Posted by: Lauren at March 31,2015 04:08 PM(MYCIw)

Yes. The cry of "But I'm not political!" was no protection from fascists or communists once the State turned its attention to the person in question. *History* says that eventually sides must be chosen when those who have the Will to Control get a chance to exercise it.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (GDulk)

188 The only difference is that the left loves The Gayz

No, to the left the Gheys are useful idiots. As soon as they've consolidated power, they'll be shipped off to the Hillary Fun Camps to re-educate them from their "anti-social" behavior. Provided they're not executed out of hand.

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (9221z)

189 is a dry cleaner required to clean the hoods of the local KKK boys.
Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (/eTPT)
-------
If they are gay gay gay KKK, then of course.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (NUqwG)

190 Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have a law making gays a protected class

That's not right. Gays are a protected class in Indiana for government hiring, same as Kentucky and Virginia, two other states with RFRAs. Gays are not a protrected class in Texas, which also has an RFRA.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 04:18 PM (/kI1Q)

191
I'm pretty conservative and I don't even know Jesus. Is he a Knicks fan?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 31, 2015 04:17 PM (rDqRv)

Don't know, but he does a bang-up job on my lawn.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:18 PM (2Ojst)

192 "The left's goal of not facing the consequences of sin."

Sin is being out of alignment with my own values.

Posted by: Barack Obama, the first stone caster at March 31, 2015 04:18 PM (AO98W)

193 I am going to go to the local Muslim Halal Baker and force him to make me a Bar Mitzvah Cake.

Posted by: Genghis Cohen at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (fLKzW)

194 >>>It seems we can no longer choose the "live and let live" option; everything has become politicized.

i don't mind this as an observation, as terrible as it is, because it's true.

I get annoyed at fromunder's formulation of it, which is essentially a demand that I get more on his side, that is, that I get right with Jesus, as the price I should be made to pay for supporting the Christian position.

I think this is just like the dogmatism of the left -- yes you say you support us but you do not support us ENOUGH, not with your heart and your soul, and this is what we really want

Frankly, this world is so full of dissent and discord that someoen should be happy about someone supporting his position, not churlish that he doesn't also love all the things he loves.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (PA7DS)

195 Great post, Ace. That needed to be said. All of the deniers saying the Indiana law isn't about discrimination don't know what the f*ck they are talking about. it is exactly about that (where the federal version is quite differently worded and directed). Needed to be said.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (so+oy)

196 So, let's say some "very religious" group was having some kind of event or retreat or whatever in order to assist "conflicted gays" to "cure themselves" and become straight.

Let's also say that this religious group, for whatever reason, chose to go to a gay owned bakery to furnish cakes and baked goods for the event.

Would the gay bakers be allowed to turn down the job because, to cater such an event, it might be perceived that they agree with the religious groups actions to "cure" what they believe to be natural?

Posted by: the shoe on the other foot at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (DC3uV)

197 >>Since 19 other state have the same law on the books as Indiana, why the
fuss now? ...Is it because Pence may
be a presidential candidate? Why the fuss now?

Other than a distraction, they know this fight is a winner for them (GOP sounds out of touch when discussing same-sex marriage issues), so they never pass up an opportunity to bring it up. Keep the troops engaged, continuing their alienation of Republicans and Christians. Alinsky tactics.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (TLTHv)

198 Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:13 PM (PA7DS)

Ace. You didn't mention that during the Mailbag segment on "what fiction you are currently reading."

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (48QDY)

199 Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:14 PM (PA7DS)

No.

I have not seen anyone say that. But to break it down- those of us who have been arguing pro-liberty (yes, mostly Christian, but certainly not unanimously so) have been trying say one thing: I have the right to my labor; you do not have the right to my labor.

Those on the pro-totalitarianism side have been arguing that, no the only reason you might want to claim to own your own labor is because Theocracy and Gay Hate.

If you (that is: you, ace) choose to side with the pro-liberty group, then the anti-liberty group will lump you in with the Christians whether or not you would do so yourself.

No Christian here (that I have seen) has said, or even suggested, that you will be forced to support the Christian position in all things. Rather, that the SJWs will claim that you are supporting the Christian position.

When, in fact, you are simply asserting your right not to have an opinion..

Which right I believe the Horde agrees you do, indeed, have.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (kff5f)

200 So I get all these extra rights by being gay, a protective class? Where do get one of these gay cards? I mean it might come in handy. I can be a celibate gay right? I mean I am a married Jew so I am used to celibate.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (rDqRv)

201 Nature abhors vacuums. Since you like to have NO opinion, you will be forced to have one, obviously the one the left wants.

What part of 'you will be made to care' you don't understand?

-----

Ok - I see the comment you were referring to. I thought it good observation. But I don't see it as support my god or theirs. I see it as if you just don't care - then they will choose. You (ACE) do care - you are saying you care very much. And you are making it public. But too many people just say they don't care and move on.

I don't know. Maybe fromabroad meant it the way you interpreted it.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (gmeXX)

202
Since 19 other state have the same law on the books as Indiana, why the fuss now? Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have a law making gays a protected class, but why now? Is it because Pence may be a presidential candidate? Why the fuss now?

--

1. Right to work law
2. Changed their electoral vote in 2012

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (BbwTO)

203
Do you not see the problem? I'm not interested in ANY gods.


I wouldn't use Fromabraod as an example of a "typical" Christian, Ace. I have NEVER heard that person come here and talk about anything other than gay marriage and once-socialized medicine. They are absolutely into rant of anyone whose view much differs from their own They have never presented anything that I consider remotely (what one commentator here) calls "winsome" about Christianity. Speaking for myself, I have no issue with you not believing in any Gods. I will say that I think God believes in you and lave it there. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 31, 2015 04:20 PM (DXzRD)

204 two girls one cupcake.

Posted by: eleven at March 31, 2015 04:20 PM (ykfyK)

205 With Great Power comes Great Vengeance and Cruelty.

Posted by: Uncle Ben at March 31, 2015 04:20 PM (D5hxK)

206 Totally unrelated: new Mad Max film looks better every new trailer that comes out. Its going to be glorious prophetic.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 04:20 PM (MMC8r)

207 I absolutely think is all about the joy the Left gets from making people of faith submit to their will. It has nothing to do with gays not getting pastries in some cruel Theocracy.

I will eat crow on this, I thought our side was premature in proclaiming that after gay marriage they would start forcing Churches to perform gay weddings. I absolutely now believe that's next for the Left.

Posted by: McAdams at March 31, 2015 04:20 PM (TBOhF)

208 Yup, which is why The Left here in the West has such an affinity for The Muslims. Because islam does not brook any dissent from their sacred dogmas, and if dissent is detected the punishment is death.


The Left will shit themselves when they start getting tossed off of roofs for the ghey.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 04:20 PM (DXB+X)

209 OT: Video discovered of the last moments of the Germanwings flight.

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (/HX7u)

210 Intolerance is Egyptians beating shit out of Christian Coptic folks just for "saying" that they want to build a church. And I suppose that intolerance is what I feel for Obama for releasing funds today to Egypt so that they can fight terrorism. Yeah, right, Barack, that's exactly how all that money will get spent, you betcha. We got bigger problems than whether there will be or not be cake.

Posted by: goon at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (A53Jp)

211 Unfortunately, we can't change our name to Absurdistan -

http://tinyurl.com/ocfbmnb

Sweden owns it.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (BZAd3)

212 The entire idea of a Protected Class is evil.

I am literally a second class citizen in America because I'm not part of a Protected Class.

Certain ppl literally have more rights than me cause of their skin tone or who they like to fuck.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (ZPrif)

213
I think you liked HBO's anti-scientology show because it reinforced everything you already knew/thought about the organization.

There's always three sides to every story...

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (iv3H6)

214 so every political discussion has to turn into a You Must Worship Jesus to Be Conservative thread?

Wow, where on earth did that come from? The point was just that as human beings we're innately religious and will find someone to consider the highest being which we follow as our guide. Always. For most people its themselves. Nothing about that has the slightest thing to do with conservatism.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (39g3+)

215 It is "some" Christians also, my grandson had a drawing torn up by a classmate who claimed he worshipped the illuminati. Kid threatened to kick his behind if my grandson spoke to him again. Grandson was drawing the back of a dollar bill...sigh

Posted by: FCF at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (kejii)

216 >>>I watched some of it. It, like the other HBO documentaries, seemed extremely biased. It was like watching a Michael Moore 'documentary.'

of course it's biased. But I guess I'm surprised that you're calling for a fair-and-balanced look at Scientology!

The book, I'm told, tried to be more "balanced," while not being able to avoid the obvious, that Scientology is nutty and its leaders have engaged in despicable intimidation against critics and apostates.

It's a cult, straight up.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (PA7DS)

217 Is he a Knicks fan?

Spurs.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 04:22 PM (kff5f)

218 I stay out of all talk about religion. It brings out some of the worse comments.

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2015 04:22 PM (sj3Ax)

219 Why not just make a shitty cake?
Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:06 PM (g1DWB)

That can get you sued, too. "You made me a nasty cake because I'm gay! You're a bigot! I'm calling my lawyers."

It's no coincidence that one of the bakers who was forced by the courts to make the same sex wedding cake was specifically instructed by the judge that the cake must taste good and be a quality product.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 31, 2015 04:22 PM (KkVB6)

220
By what moral authority does the Government force me to engage in any particular economic activity in which I do not wish to engage?

---
The pattern was set with the treatment of blacks back in the day. They corrected government discrimination and then went on to impose it on private individuals. I'm conflicted there as i favor the results achieved (no whites only businesses), but not the tactics. But those were the fastest ones.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 31, 2015 04:22 PM (/eTPT)

221 >>> As I keep saying, never let a weakling get a taste of power. They've had no experience with it and do not understand that power must be exercised, if at all, with restraint and regard for the rights and feelings of human beings.


Ah, you mean "with great power comes great responsibility?" Never heard of it!

Posted by: Weakling Geek SJWs with short attention spans at March 31, 2015 04:22 PM (yRwC8)

222 As I keep saying, never let a weakling get a taste of power.
--------------------

F*ck!!!

Posted by: LIV Obama voters at March 31, 2015 04:22 PM (VndSC)

223 Call me simple. I want the freedom of association to reign supreme in matters private. I am allowed to discriminate. Others are allowed to discriminate against me. Seems fair enough. Now, the government, on the other hand, cannot discriminate: everyone equal under the law.

I am not the government. Get the Ckuf OFF My Lawn! I don't like the color of your shirt or the cut of your jib and you aren't entitled to trespass. That's all the reason I should need.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (1CroS)

224 The left's goal of not facing the consequences of sin

But in this context that's calling homosexuality a sin. (a) I don't believe that it is, and this insults people who are dear to me; (ii) this secularizes the debate.

We should look for what is right in se and not have to say God is on our side.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (JtwS4)

225 my personal example is...is a dry cleaner required to clean the hoods of the local KKK boys.
Posted by: buzzsaw90

Who are you calling boy? That's not right!

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (Spluw)

226 People don't lose my support because they happen to be gay- even if I disagree with them. They lose my support when they become anti-intellectual, fully vested nihilists who are convenient supports of so-called "freedom" only when it comports with their belief.

There has been a considerable amount of goodwill lost by the fanatical acts of crusaders who try to oppress, cajole and even harm people because they disagree with them.

In most honest discussions, we call that oppression, coercion or despotism and it is intellectually inconsistent with people who claim to be pursuing parity.

It's got nothing to do with their sexual preference. It has to do with the oppressive assault on other people's freedoms and the pursuit of inequality as a guiding principle.

Posted by: Marcus T. at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (GGCsk)

227 All I've ever done in my life is have faith and believe in God.
This is why people hate and despise me? Or is it because I'm Jewish?

Toss up.

Posted by: mpfs at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (si/E8)

228 >>>I think you liked HBO's anti-scientology show because it reinforced everything you already knew/thought about the organization.


it did. it did not "challenge" me.

But I'd like to know what "the other side" would be.

Do you think there's "another side' to blackmailing ex-members by revealing all the sins (homosexuality, affairs, etc.) they revealed in their confessionals?

I don't think there's "another side" to that.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (PA7DS)

229 Imma put my God on you Ace

p.44 of Dieties and Demigawdz

Posted by: Bigby's Ring Finger at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (3ZtZW)

230 I will eat crow on this, I thought our side was premature in proclaiming that after gay marriage they would start forcing Churches to perform gay weddings. I absolutely now believe that's next for the Left.

If they can take away the religious rights of individuals, why not the organization itself?

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (MMC8r)

231 210 Intolerance is Egyptians beating shit out of Christian Coptic folks just for "saying" that they want to build a church.


So it's Tuesday. That's an everyday event there.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (S+el1)

232
If a minority of bakers refuses services to gay weddings, what actual damage befalls gays? There are still many, many more bakers who will bake them their cakes. So what is the actual harm?
---
would it matter if it were a majority?

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (/eTPT)

233 As long as Tim Cook is CEO of Apple, I've owned my last Apple product.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (BZAd3)

234 Boy you remember when everyone was talking about Iran's nukes and Hillary's blatant lies and violation of the law? Those were the days.

Just like how everyone has totally dropped the IRS scandal of abusing government power to lean on political groups the president doesn't like. And Fast & Furious. And on and on.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (39g3+)

235 Did anyone actually read "Liberal Fascism"?

It pretty much covered this...

Posted by: anon a mouse at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (KnbYp)

236
The Left will shit themselves when they start getting tossed off of roofs for the ghey.

I don't think this will ever happen. The Left is not stupid and they are every bit as evil and driven as any muslim.

The Left's plan is simple: First, the Christians and Jews. Then the muslims.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (iv3H6)

237 Seen at an Indiana mosque:

Gay Wedding Chapel - 3rd floor.

Posted by: Roy at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (VndSC)

238 Alinsky tactics.
Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (TLTHv)
-------
With most of the media actively on their side.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (NUqwG)

239 Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (BZAd3)

Nah. We're Pretendistan. Declared so by EO.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (48QDY)

240 same sex wedding cake

When did this line of bullshit start creeping in? it's a reference to gay couples, but strangely, now 'gay' is removed and this bit has been substituted.

Posted by: Nation of Islam at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (Spluw)

241 In academia, all day long they study "Queering the Culture."

We laugh and scoff and make jokes about classes in Underwater Basket Weaving.

But what is "Queering the Culture"?

This right here, happening today in Indiana.

As much as we scoff, they are winning.

Today, the culture was queered.

And tomorrow, it will be queered some more.

Until you are queer. And glad of it.

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (K4YiS)

242 If there is one thing that the last few days have made crystalline clear to me, it's that an enormous number of people on both sides of the aisle sure as hell hate me.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (mf5HN)

We all love you here.

But then again a stiletto in the groin earns lots of love

Posted by: kbdabear at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (GrXXa)

243 I'm pretty conservative and I don't even know Jesus. Is he a Knicks fan?


He's done my weekly mow-and-blow for years and I highly recommend him.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (8ZskC)

244 And, btw, that is exactly *why* the left attacks anyone who remotely supports the Christians in this area.

They want to scare everyone but the most ardent away from taking a public stand.

It's much easier for me, as a Bible Thumping Christian to stand with the bakers because I'm already a social outcast. I have nothing to lose.

It's a lot harder for someone who has typically been on friendly terms with those on the left in his personal life to suddenly be called a horrible bigot ect ect ect.

That's why they force you to take sides. They want it to be as painful as possible to side with the Unpeople of Jesusland that few venture to defend liberty.

So, with great sincerity, thank you. You are sacrificing a lot to defend the beliefs of others, even if you've already burned some of those left wing bridges in the past.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (MYCIw)

245 I'm conflicted there as i favor the results achieved (no whites only businesses), but not the tactics. But those were the fastest ones.

And now, someone else favors the results achieved. (No businesses operating on religious principles)

Next up ....

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (0NdlF)

246 214 so every political discussion has to turn into a You Must Worship Jesus to Be Conservative thread?

I hope not. because then it'll devolve into a you must be denomination "X" to be a conservative. Which kinda nullifies the whole point of being an American Conservative.

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (9221z)

247 Volcanoes are usefully violent manifestations of natures wrath at the humanity virus. I propose we placate that oh-so-justified wrath, and that we regularly throw Deniers into the volcano.


Who's with me?!!!!

Posted by: Al-Gore at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (LISuA)

248 >>This, exactly. And we are very quickly coming to the point where you
cannot be a practicing traditional Christian and own a business. If I am
disallowed from practicing my faith in public, and within the confines
of my own business which is my physical and/or intellectual and/or
artistic property, then I am being deprived of my religious liberty.



But they also demonize people for expressing their faith outside of work, such as the Chik-fil-A owners supporting pro-traditional marriage groups w/their own money, or the people outed and fired (or forced to resign) for donating to pro-CA Prop 8 organizations. These people did not discriminate on the job, or through their businesses, they just dared to endorse something that the people in power don't like.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (TLTHv)

249 4 Some people want "fair" more than "free."
_______________________

Ah, but they don't actually want "fair" either.

The RFRA's are all about "fairness." The RFRA's say that when two people's rights conflict, the courts will balance the respective rights and decide which person's right is more entitled to protection in the particular situation.

It's what the SCOTUS did long ago when they ruled that one can't legally scream "fire" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. Even though one would normally have the absolute right to say whatever was on one's mind, you can't do it in that particular situation, because your free speech rights are outweighed by the theater patrons' right to life (i.e., their right not to be trampled to death in a rush for the exits of the non-burning theater).

Similarly, the RFRA laws (both state and federal) require courts to balance the parties' competing rights and decide whose rights are more deserving of protection in the situation at issue. Is it more important to protect the rights of a gay groom to buy a wedding cake from a particular baker, even though there are 99 other pro-gay bakers nearby who would be happy to sell him a cake, or is it more important to protect the rights of the Christian baker, who would be violating his religious beliefs if forced to bake the gay wedding cake?

It's not a tough call. The inconvenience to the gay customer of having to choose another baker would be minimal, while the infringement on the religious rights of the Christian baker would be substantial. So, in the interests of fairness, the baker should win.

But the militant gays, and their dim-witted prog supporters, are not interested in fairness. They don't want gays to have equal civil rights; they want gays to have superior civil rights. They want gays' rights to always trump other peoples' rights in every situation, no matter how substantial an infringement that would impose on other peoples' rights, or how inconsequential an infringement it would impose on gays' rights.

They don't want the RFRA balancing test because they don't want "fairness." Fairness demands that one consider the rights of others, too. But the gaystapo don't give a damn about anybody else's rights.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (lmdHn)

250
Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have a law making gays a protected class
...............................
So in those 20 states when does the season open?

Posted by: wth at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (wAQA5)

251 Yup, which is why The Left here in the West has such an affinity for The Muslims. Because islam does not brook any dissent from their sacred dogmas, and if dissent is detected the punishment is death.


The Left will shit themselves when they start getting tossed off of roofs for the ghey.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 04:20 PM (DXB+X)



interesting to note that Islam could be viewed as "extreme conservatism" or "extreme right" yet the left embraces it tightly

so they swing far left, and far right now?

nothing makes sense anymore

It is growing tiresome.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (IXrOn)

252 Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:24 PM (iv3H6)

Beheaders vs Juiceboxers?

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (48QDY)

253 So... what are the new credentials for being a Moron?

Posted by: Penfold at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (Fbt5B)

254 soothsayer,

a documentary about hitler might not "challenge" me and might present a one-sided portrayal of Naziism (that plays to my previously held beliefs about Naziism) but that wouldn't necessarily make it invalid, or even unfair.

You're right about going clear -- it did not challenge any "mainstream" narratives about the cult.

I don't think that makes it untrue or unworthy, though.


Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (PA7DS)

255 A friend just texted me a picture of his iPhone (well what's left of it) with a .308 Sierra Match Tip BTHP hole in it.

The next pic was of his new Samsung.

Posted by: Marcus T. at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (GGCsk)

256 >>The Left's plan is simple: First, the Christians and Jews. Then the muslims.

I see a flaw with that plan.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (g1DWB)

257 Can a baker refuse to make a same-sex cream-filled donut? Just on principle?

Posted by: Roy at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (VndSC)

258 It's kinda homophobic not to enjoy watching hard core gay porn.

Posted by: Progtard 2000 at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (ZPrif)

259 All I've ever done in my life is have faith and believe in God.
This is why people hate and despise me? Or is it because I'm Jewish?



It doesn't have to be just one thing.

Posted by: The Left at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (8ZskC)

260 I see this in my full blown lefty sisters. They ARE the hero in their own story. AND, you can't have a hero, without what? A villain of course. So, they as hero's are being heroic in thought, word and deed. If you disagree, you're not simply misguided or wrong, you are, in fact, EVIL. Now, I don't speak to them at all. When it comes to unhealthy people and toxic relationships, there are no innocent victims, only willing volunteers.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (8b2u+)

261
Do you think there's "another side' to blackmailing ex-members by revealing all the sins (homosexuality, affairs, etc.) they revealed in their confessionals?

Is that standard practice in Scientology, or did HBO cherry pick the worst incidents?

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:26 PM (iv3H6)

262 "Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also."

Yeah. Ace could have save the long story. We already know how it ends up. Christ is Risen, brothers.

Christus Vincit, Christus Regnat, Christus Imperat

Posted by: havildar-major at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (jpW6t)

263 Mike Pence, yesterday's brave hero:

"I'm proud to sign this law."

Mike Pence, today's repulsive coward:

"You can have your religious principles in your mind, but in the physical world you must obey your new Gay Overlords."

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (K4YiS)

264 Pretty soon, this will all be water under the bridge

Posted by: Ted Kennedy at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (kFxpe)

265
255 A friend just texted me a picture of his iPhone (well what's left of it) with a .308 Sierra Match Tip BTHP hole in it.

The next pic was of his new Samsung.


Omg, hate crime!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (0NdlF)

266
I'm pretty conservative and I don't even know Jesus. Is he a Knicks fan?


He's done my weekly mow-and-blow for years and I highly recommend him.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero)
........................
Frickeeng Haysoos, he take all my bidness.

Posted by: Manuel Labor at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (wAQA5)

267 AtC,
I could never hate you....because you scare the shit out of me.

Posted by: mpfs at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (si/E8)

268 Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have a law making gays a protected class

That's not true.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (/kI1Q)

269 Calling them 'sacred beliefs' is a nice way to put it.

Yet it's more than that. A religious person who is not Muslim will recognize the existence and, indeed, natural motivation of people who hold badthoughts. Christianity, in particular, points out sins so as to identify them as sins and as temptations.

The SJW is eliminationist. They are not in a constant struggle against a humanity that naturally develops badthoughts. Badthoughts are not just bad, they are illegitimate and unnatural. They are imposed by the cisgender patriarchy and an artifact of false consciousness.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (L2xDv)

270
But then again a stiletto in the groin earns lots of love



I *hate* that.

Posted by: eleven at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (ykfyK)

271 I'll take the gay lefties seriously when they start marching and whining loudly to oppose female mutilation by muslims, the throwing of gays off buildings, and the general treatment of women in Sharia controlled countries (and counties).

yeah, until then, go screw yourself

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (A98Xu)

272 So tolerance should include tolerating those who wish to discriminate?

Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about persecuting Christians. Maybe it is about making them be nondiscriminatory. Like not allowing a florist to fail to serve a biracial couple even if it goes against their religious beliefs.

One should not be able to hide behind their religion to illegally discriminate.

Posted by: The truth at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (ibvmu)

273 I thought I read that in Indiana, sexual orientation is not a protected class under Indiana law. Thus it would not be illegal for a gay baker to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a straight couple, or for a gay photographer to take photos of a christening in a Catholic church, right?

Posted by: Penfold at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (Fbt5B)

274 >>>So, with great sincerity, thank you. You are sacrificing a lot to defend the beliefs of others, even if you've already burned some of those left wing bridges in the past.

no no none of that!

I was not asking for that, and I think you're off-base to compliment me on that. I've already burned enough bridges to not care all that much either.

All I'm saying is, I don't like this idea pushed by fromunder that my level of support (which most would call fulsome) is not enough because I am merely agreeing with him on PROCEDURE (All men have the right to think as they please) rather than on SUBSTANCE (these particular men's beliefs are true, and I endorse the beliefs themselves).

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (PA7DS)

275 Here's a not so far-fetched question. Should a physician be "required" (forced, coerced, shamed into) to perform an invasive high-risk surgical procedure on a patient who requests (demands, insists upon) it if:

1. There is no proven medical benefit of said procedure?

-or-

2. There is general medical consensus but not "settled science" that there is no medical benefit

-or-

3. There is generally mixed opinion in the medical community about the medical benefit.


What if the patient is a child and the one demanding the procedure is a parent?

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (NeFrd)

276 Here in Illinois, The Nation of Islam is headquartered on the south side of Chicago.

They have a beautiful building, once upon a time it was a Greek Orthodox church but when the neighborhood changed Louis Farrakhan bought it.

In that building they have a fancy restaurant that probably does carryout and catering. I'm waiting for teh gayz to go there and start demanding services. Cause I'm sure Calypso Louis would be honored to do it. Not.

Posted by: Boots at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (l9mF2)

277 I miss cake girl

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 31, 2015 04:29 PM (/eTPT)

278 interesting to note that Islam could be viewed as "extreme conservatism" or "extreme right" yet the left embraces it tightly so they swing far left, and far right now? nothing makes sense anymore It is growing tiresome.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette

No, it's because leftists are totalitarians, as are mohammadans. Remember all the horseshit about answering to Rome? or the internation Jewish conspiracy? it's partly envy. it's what they would do with such an identity; what mohammadans are doing right now.

Posted by: Blue Hen at March 31, 2015 04:29 PM (Spluw)

279 Scientology is straight up evil. We're talking communist china evil. They force the young women to have abortions to better serve The Church. I don't know if that was the intent behind starting the religion, which I also see as a money making/blackmail scheme, but it has certainly taken a horrendously dark turn.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:29 PM (MYCIw)

280 The whole issue for me is defending the one freedom that is most important to me, the freedom of association. Without it, I'm nothing more than a slave. I'd rather be dead than forced by overlords to give up my individuality. I'll go back to lurking now.

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 04:29 PM (5+mPY)

281
@263
Which is why originally the Founders envisioned us electing peopleof character to be in government. (Honestly, it was a bit of a naďve view, but let's let that go for the moment)

An actual person of character will hold to their convictions and do right by them.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:29 PM (k8xvx)

282 "You said I had to bake you a cake. Nobody said it had to be delicious"

Yeah, I don't think that would work. If they're going to force you to do things, they're going to use anything less than perfect service as evidence of discrimination.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 31, 2015 04:29 PM (jhqr1)

283 "I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square."
-Cardinal George

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:29 PM (39g3+)

284 So tolerance should include tolerating those who wish to discriminate?


Go read Section 5.
http://is.gd/f9SRik

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (/kI1Q)

285 >>Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about persecuting Christians. Maybe it is about making them be nondiscriminatory. Like not allowing a florist to fail to serve a biracial couple even if it goes against their religious beliefs.

So you're saying Bill Clinton is a bigot? Good to know. I'm sure this won't be brought up during Hillary's! coronation.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (g1DWB)

286 Excellent post, Ace.

Posted by: Feh at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (YcLaj)

287 Poligamy laws were found constitutional in 1878 under Reynolds v United States.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (wlDny)

288 All I'm saying is, I don't like this idea pushed by fromunder that my level of support (which most would call fulsome) is not enough because I am merely agreeing with him on PROCEDURE (All men have the right to think as they please) rather than on SUBSTANCE (these particular men's beliefs are true, and I endorse the beliefs themselves).

------

If only we simply followed the Constitution on Procedure - the Substance would take care of itself.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (gmeXX)

289 I will eat crow on this, I thought our side was premature in proclaiming that after gay marriage they would start forcing Churches to perform gay weddings. I absolutely now believe that's next for the Left.
Posted by: McAdams
-----------------

Since they cannot obtain the moral imprimatur voluntarily, they will extort it by 'legal' means, and then proclaim, "See, we're good moral folks because the church says so".

If the churches are eviscerated in the process, well then..., "Too bad, but they deserved it for disapproving of our behavior". Hedonistic, spoiled brat bullies, devoid of character.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (l1zOH)

290 Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about persecuting Christians. Maybe it is about making them be nondiscriminatory. Like not allowing a florist to fail to serve a biracial couple even if it goes against their religious beliefs. One should not be able to hide behind their religion to illegally discriminate.
Posted by: The truth

I have a great way of proving that. Force the nation of Islam to do exactly that.

We'll wait here while you bell the cat.

Posted by: Blue Hen at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (Spluw)

291 AtC, I hope that nothing I have said has made you think I hate you, because that couldn't be further from the truth.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:31 PM (MYCIw)

292 Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (PA7DS)

most of us get what you're saying
it's pretty basic really

after all, many of us feel the same way

that is why these circular comment threads are mind-boggling

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:31 PM (IXrOn)

293 So tolerance should include tolerating those who wish to discriminate?

IT'S NOT TOLERANCE TO PUSH WHAT YOU FAVOR, ASSHOLE.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 04:31 PM (MMC8r)

294 It seems we can no longer choose the "live and let live" option; everything has become politicized.

^^^^^^^^

Much as it pains me to credit Erick Erickson with anything, his column on how "You will be made to care," was absolutely right on.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 31, 2015 04:31 PM (KkVB6)

295 This is all very philosophical, which is fine in concept, but when the talking is done I hope you (for your own sakes) all realize that you must, as an article of faith, abide by my edicts.

I will not hesitate in applying justice as I define it at the time. Fully. With no mercy. The power of the State is mine and L'Etat c'est moi, once you get right down to it.



Posted by: Barack Abu Obama, Sheik of the North American Caliphate at March 31, 2015 04:31 PM (LISuA)

296 RFRA, on the federal books since 93, and in 20+ other states.. So why is this the outrage of the day? Destroy authoritative hair, of course.

Posted by: Chocolatepretzel at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (6VJV0)

297 Eh... point of order...

I believe as subjects of the fundamentally changed America, we are supposed to wait to be told what we can tolerate and vice versa. To do otherwise would be intolerant...

and probably racist.

Certainly homophobic and misogynistic.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (BZAd3)

298 The Left's plan is simple: First, the Christians and Jews. Then the muslims.



Bwahahahahahahahaha. Muzzies be blowin' shit up. Muzzies be cutting off heads in the workplace. Muzzies will shoot a place up. Wonder how the left will handle that?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (DXB+X)

299
Like not allowing a florist to fail to serve a biracial couple even if it goes against their religious beliefs.

what religion says its a sin to marry outside your race?

Posted by: kj at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (lKyWE)

300 that is why these circular comment threads are mind-boggling

----

Well it was only one person firing back - and I'm not sure he was even doing that.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (gmeXX)

301 214 The point was just that as human beings we're innately religious and will find someone to consider the highest being which we follow as our guide. Always. Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:21 PM (39g3+)Some people are innately religious, perhaps most people, but not anyone. Some people don't think about religion one way or another. I'm not a believer, nor am I a proselytizing atheist who will try to browbeat into renouncing your deity. I'm just a man who has no idea whether or not there is a supreme being, and even if there were one I have no idea how to deduce which among the many world religions is correct. I don't concern myself with anything more than getting through each day and taking care of my family. Now, you could of course argue that the simple fact of family is derived from Christian principles, and you'd be right, but for me that's a utilitarian philosophy rather than divine.

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (kQfqk)

302 AtC,
I could never hate you....because you scare the shit out of me.

Posted by: mpfs at March 31, 2015 04:27 PM (si/E



Fluffiest bunniest.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (mf5HN)

303
All of this leftism at some degree is making other people their personal slaves.

Doing what they say should be done, saying what they say should be said, believing what they say you should believe.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (ODxAs)

304 I'd have put it differently but what Zap says is right. You don't tolerate anything except what you disagree with. Tolerance necessarily means dislike.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (39g3+)

305 Soothsayer: "Is that standard practice in Scientology, or did HBO cherry pick the worst incidents?"

I'm pretty sure it's standard practice. The dossier that accumulates as you proceed through endless audits is a deposit box of future threats should one challenge the church. It seems to me to be designed for that exact purpose. The abuse of a "confessional" is just begging to be abused by those whose intent is to embroil you in an apparent pyramid scheme.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (1CroS)

306 Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 31, 2015 04:22 PM (/eTPT)

See, here's the deal...

Someone is going to have to explain to me why "no whites only businesses" is a moral requirement.

Because I don't think it is.

Am I *glad* that legally required segregation ended? Yes.
Am I *glad* that society has (largely) integrated such that discrimination on the basis of race is sneered at by society at large? Absolutely.

But "things I like" are not reason enough to take away someone's rights. And (I've said it a lot in the last week or so): You have no right to what someone else must provide or produce.

Is it bigoted not to serve someone because of their race? Yes.

Does that give the Government the moral authority to force me to serve them?... If your answer to that is "yes" you're going to have to answer the questions I posted above- what moral authority, and where does it end?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (kff5f)

307 286 Excellent post, Ace.
Posted by: Feh at March 31, 2015 04:30 PM (YcLaj)

Seconded. Excellent.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:33 PM (BZAd3)

308 Very well said, ace. And it shows me more and more that this planet cannot be saved.

Posted by: Null at March 31, 2015 04:33 PM (xjpRj)

309 But the key question here is....what does Moo Moo think?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:33 PM (V+kmg)

310 Ace, if you had asked me 20 years ago to describe a liberal's definition of tolerance, I would have told you it was a requirement to love anything not white, Christian, or male, which are to be hated (especially any combination of the above).

In other words, this is not a new development. This has been the endgame from the start.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at March 31, 2015 04:33 PM (HwWo9)

311 I will eat crow on this, I thought our side was premature in proclaiming that after gay marriage they would start forcing Churches to perform gay weddings. I absolutely now believe that's next for the Left.
Posted by: McAdams


Nope That's not what's next.

Expunging the nation of "boy" and "girl" is what's next. It will be deemed child abuse to "brainwash" a child into assuming that its genital determine its gender.

Kindergarten classes will be all about the fluidity of gender. If any kid starts drifting toward cis-identification, they will be "challenged" by the teacher and the mob into questioning their own identity.

After which everyone will be trans or questioning.

After that, the kids who are today encouraged to be promiscuous by sex ed classes in middle school and high school will be instead encouraged to experiment with homosexual behavior.

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 04:34 PM (K4YiS)

312 Really ironic that the Left's hatred of Christianity only serves to validate that book they hate so much (Holy Bible). The only troubling part is that they are only going to get more assertive, vicious, and shrill in their attacks on Christians and Christianity.

Oh well, WTH. Sometimes it's just as important to have the right enemies as it is the right friends.

Posted by: 1bulwetweft at March 31, 2015 04:34 PM (JkmfQ)

313 *Stuffs tributes of lemon squares and manatee plushes through USB to Empress*

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:34 PM (k8xvx)

314 Posted by: the shoe on the other foot at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (DC3uV)

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but I'll bite. Of course the ghey bakers should be able to turn them down. If you're asking whether they would be forced to make the cakes and whatnot under the laws as they currently exist, I do not believe that would happen.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:34 PM (2Ojst)

315 Ultimately, you have to conclude the assault and coercion is purposeful and intentional.

I honestly believe they will try to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak. They don't believe this will ever roll back on them. So they give it life and license.

They're counting on someone with a different view never wielding that power over them. They believe if they just try to shame people loud enough, the inequality and discrimination will never be reversed.

That's a pretty dangerous game to play. Government never gives back powers it has usurped or otherwise been given.

Posted by: Marcus T. at March 31, 2015 04:34 PM (GGCsk)

316 One should not be able to hide behind their religion to illegally discriminate.

It isn't about hiding, but prioritizing. Duty to God who is eternal is infinitely more important than cooperating with the demands of human government which is temporary and useless. A dead idol, if you will.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 04:34 PM (ZbV+0)

317 But the key question here is....what does Moo Moo think?

He thinks he's AWESOME.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 04:34 PM (MMC8r)

318 Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 04:32 PM (kQfqk)

-----

You are the exception that proves the rule. Just kidding. I made the initial observations that humans are hard wired to find religion - somehow. Obviously that is a generalization. But like a lot of generalizations - one in which I think is quite true. You and Ace may be the exceptions.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:35 PM (gmeXX)

319 So, there are more Christians in the US than non-Christians so when will We stand up and do something.......

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at March 31, 2015 04:35 PM (Bn6aD)

320

It used to be trendy to show Democrats going in and out of church.

Now it's trendy to go on late night tv...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:35 PM (IXrOn)

321
I get a kick out of how easily people today throw around the accusation of hate.

If someone disagrees with you on a political issue, they hate you? Personally??



Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (iv3H6)

322 JackStraw: "I see a flaw with that plan."

Maybe they're counting on the Hindus to bail them out.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (1CroS)

323 " the Gutter Religion Christianity"

This of course is a reference to Louis Farrakhan's calling Judaism a "gutter religion". Except he never said that.

Long before CNN hired Larry King, his time slot was occupied by "The Sandy Freeman Show". She interviewed Farrakhan after this incident. He denied he said it. She played him the tape. He said, "Listen carefully. I did not say gutter religion. I said dirty religion." And she played it again, and son of a gun, he was right. His accent and the bad recording made it sound like "gutter", but indeed he did not say that. He said "dirty". Which isn't any less nasty, but it's what he actually said.

But the false meme had been planted, and it was no use trying to correct it with facts. We live by lies.

Posted by: despair at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (J6suc)

324 Honestly. There are so many straw men in this issue I need a flame thrower.

Posted by: Marcus T. at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (GGCsk)

325 It used to be trendy to show Democrats going in and out of church.

Now it's trendy to go on late night tv...

OMG You are soooo right....

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (Bn6aD)

326 But the key question here is....what does Moo Moo think?

---

Who cares - he makes more money than everyone else on this board combined.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (gmeXX)

327
Sometimes it's just as important to have the right enemies as it is the right friends.
-
This

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (BbwTO)

328 >>>Ace, if you had asked me 20 years ago to describe a liberal's definition of tolerance, I would have told you it was a requirement to love anything not white, Christian, or male, which are to be hated (especially any combination of the above).

In other words, this is not a new development. This has been the endgame from the start.


...

oh it's always had that to it. but lately they've completely stopped pretending there was any principle at all to it

I mean, the ACLU used to take the side of those unpopular on the left on principle; they don't do that now.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (PA7DS)

329
@309
We know what God thinks of Moo Moo, and that probably means that we Christians should probably treat him better. I am guilty of Moo-bashing in the past, to my own shame.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (k8xvx)

330 The Truth #270
You're missing a fundamental concept here. These laws are about actions that are a "substantially burden" on the religious beliefs of the impacted individuals. Saying "No, I won't sell you flowers because you're black/gay/biracial/whatever because it offends my religion" won't cut it. It's been tried under these laws and failed. It needs to be a substantial act. Selling flowers in the shop isn't going to do it, but doing the flower arranging at a wedding might. Selling a bunch of donuts isn't going to work, but using the significant creative task of making a wedding cake might. It needs to give the sense of imprimatur - that you approve of the action - that you support it. This is a massive difference that the media is just not getting.

Posted by: Crabtree at March 31, 2015 04:37 PM (6/AGO)

331 well, I should say that some on the ACLU do; a guy from the MD ACLU served as co-counsel on my litigation defense earlier.

But I think this is more and more the exception.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:37 PM (PA7DS)

332 After that, the kids who are today encouraged to be promiscuous by sex ed classes in middle school and high school will be instead encouraged to experiment with homosexual behavior.

Sodom and Gomorrah II : A Bigger SMOD.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:37 PM (0NdlF)

333 >>Nope That's not what's next.



Expunging the nation of "boy" and "girl" is what's next. It will be
deemed child abuse to "brainwash" a child into assuming that its genital
determine its gender.

Yep, already in full swing with all of the gender neutral bathrooms/locker rooms activism.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:37 PM (TLTHv)

334 but lately they've completely stopped pretending there was any principle at all to it

-----

I actually think this is a good thing. It is much less covert now.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:37 PM (gmeXX)

335
@309

And in the past I mean the last thread.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (k8xvx)

336 Expunging the nation of "boy" and "girl" is what's next. It will be deemed child abuse to "brainwash" a child into assuming that its genital determine its gender.
___________________________

Yes, little Brittany. Pay no attention to that penis dangling between your legs dear.

It's not real. It's just a social construct! There is no such thing as genders!

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (lmdHn)

337 Here's a question - could a baker refuse to bake a cake in the shape of a big dick for a gay bachelor party? No? How about a straight bachelorette party? Different story?

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (kQfqk)

338 Orwell was an amateur.

Posted by: DOJ at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (HEo6y)

339 But the false meme had been planted, and it was no use trying to correct it with facts. We live by lies.
Posted by: despair at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (J6suc)


That's true.

It's also true that - due to his oeuvre - Farahkhan generally doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (V+kmg)

340 Great post, compelling and rich.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (TJCSB)

341 319 So, there are more Christians in the US than non-Christians so when will We stand up and do something.......
Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at March 31, 2015 04:35 PM (Bn6aD
Ok, I'll comment just one more time. It will happen when Evangelicals and Catholics start reading the WHOLE Bible, and not just the "gentle Jesus, meek and mild" bits. That the Lefty Church force feeds.

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (5+mPY)

342 Padon the OT: Remember an Iranian girl got sent to jail for watching men's volleyball? She's out.

An image search for Ghoncheh Ghavami is worth it.

Hubba hubba.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (JtwS4)

343 oh it's always had that to it. but lately they've completely stopped pretending there was any principle at all to it

I mean, the ACLU used to take the side of those unpopular on the left on principle; they don't do that now.
Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:36 PM (PA7DS)


because the power has shifted (money, media, entertainment), and tipped in their favor
they believe they won, so press harder for more

why not go full piranha?

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:39 PM (IXrOn)

344 Of course we're for freedom of expression...

as long as you can be taught what expressions you are free to express.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:39 PM (BZAd3)

345 0 Great post, compelling and rich.

And depressing...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at March 31, 2015 04:39 PM (Bn6aD)

346 This is a massive difference that the media is just not getting.
Posted by: Crabtree

Are ya sure about that? Did ya ever consider that I'm in on it?

Posted by: MFM at March 31, 2015 04:39 PM (Spluw)

347
Ever read the comments on youtube videos? They make our worst comments here look like the minutes at mensa meetings.

If you don't like the video and say so, another youtuber will come along and call you a hater. Then they'll make a response video about all the haters of the original video.

There are people who do nothing all day except scour youtube for 'haters.'

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:39 PM (iv3H6)

348 Great post, compelling and rich.
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (TJCSB)


although missing the international flare

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (IXrOn)

349 >>>You are the exception that proves the rule. Just kidding. I made the initial observations that humans are hard wired to find religion - somehow. Obviously that is a generalization. But like a lot of generalizations - one in which I think is quite true. You and Ace may be the exceptions.

i think you're pretty much right overall and may be right completely, that is, with no exceptions, so long as you employ a loose enough definition of "religion."

I have been big on sacralizing Truth lately. Whether this counts as an ersatz religion is in the eye of each beholder.

There is a devotional aspect to it -- but then there is a devotional aspect to *any* philosophic good. There was once a devotional aspect to America-loving, after all, before Obama brutalized that and made it filthy.


Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (PA7DS)

350 "Never Have I Ever" and its variants is a typical girl drinking game: no physical activity and plenty of shame and secrets. Guy drinking games are about doing stupid stuff and potential physical harm.

One of the most clever and wicked things the left does is to frame their hate in terms of being hated. They hate certain groups, but define the exchange in terms of being hated. They hate religious groups that oppose homosexual "marriage" but frame it in terms of those groups being "haters"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (39g3+)

351 Ever read the comments on youtube videos? They make our worst comments here look like the minutes at mensa meetings.

If you don't like the video and say so, another youtuber will come along and call you a hater. Then they'll make a response video about all the haters of the original video.

There are people who do nothing all day except scour youtube for 'haters.'

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:39 PM (iv3H6)


Yeah, the you tube comments are epic.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (FMbng)

352 what religion says its a sin to marry outside your race?


Nation of Islam.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (/kI1Q)

353 So... what are the new credentials for being a Moron?
Posted by: Penfold at March 31, 2015 04:25 PM (Fbt5B)


------------------------------------


Are you wearing pants........with underwear?

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (/HX7u)

354 Back in the heyday of progressive Guns and Butter they had this thing called the draft that lots of kids wished to avoid. Some would claim to be homosexual, which was quite rightly seen as an impediment in forming effective combat units of Americans (Sparta was not in a war at the time). So when a potential draftee would claim his homosexualnessness the Entry Station NCO would pull out his cock and demand a blowjob to certify the candidates bona fides. Few proved worthy and were put on buses to the camps where they were given horrible haircuts and made to do painful things. Progresses - always looking out for you.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (oDCMR)

355 Ace - they are forcing people who disagree with their political beliefs to endorse those political beliefs anyway, using the crushing power of the state to compel assent.

^^This. Not about gay or straight.

The point of a gun, people.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (48QDY)

356 Great post, compelling and rich.
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (TJCSB)


We replaced ace's post with rich, dark Folger's Crystals from Hot Air.

Let's see if the Horde notices.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (V+kmg)

357 Expunging the nation of "boy" and "girl" is what's next. It will be deemed child abuse to "brainwash" a child into assuming that its genital determine its gender.

----

Yeah - well this is where the silent majority roars back to life. That is a very minority position. Sometimes the left does go too far.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (gmeXX)

358 Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (kQfqk)

He should be able to make, or not make, a dick-shaped cake for whoever he wants, for any reason whatsoever. Why should a baker be forced by the state to make a dick-shaped cake for anyone at all?

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (2Ojst)

359 >>>I actually think this is a good thing. It is much less covert now.


it's good/bad. it's good that it's so open and blatant now; it's bad in that pretending used to impose some restraints on them. No longer pretending = no longer restrained at all.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (PA7DS)

360 MFM #346
Good point. Either not getting or deliberately ignoring.

Posted by: Crabtree at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (6/AGO)

361 We replaced ace's post with rich, dark Folger's Crystals from Hot Air.

Let's see if the Horde notices.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (V+kmg)


Not enough bewbs.

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (9221z)

362 There was once a devotional aspect to America-loving, after all, before Obama brutalized that and made it filthy.


Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (PA7DS)


You're welcome

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (V+kmg)

363 "but lately they've completely stopped pretending there was any principle at all to it "

I do wonder if they've overplayed their hand. I used to support gay marriage. I supported it based on the lies they used to sell it. "We won't force people to participate, we just want to have our love recognized" ect. My libertarian principles shrugged and said "eh, fine do what you wan't I don't care."

Then they started suing bakers and florists and I was out. Forever. And not just a little out. They made me into an enemy.

I have to wonder how many other people had a similar path to enlightenment.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (MYCIw)

364
@356
"EARL! EARL!" Bring Ace's post back, Bannion!

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (k8xvx)

365 Why should a baker be forced by the state to make a dick-shaped cake for anyone at all?

See? This is the shit that bothers me. Nobody is making anyone make dick-shaped cakes. But we're in sixth grade now and gheyz like dickz.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (JtwS4)

366 Hubba hubba.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (JtwS4)

I'd hit it. As a matter of fact, I'd spike her like a short set....

Dayum.

And those 1st-century idjits would hide THAT under a BURKA?

Posted by: 1bulwetweft at March 31, 2015 04:43 PM (Fr8iN)

367 Show of hands...

How many here would actually eat a cake made by someone who was forced to make it for you?

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:43 PM (BZAd3)

368 Ted Cruz is on Howie Carr show Right now.
You can listen at
Howiecarrshow.com

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2015 04:43 PM (sj3Ax)

369
I've been called a hater now so many times I lost count. It doesn't even mean anything anymore. Just like 'racist' means nothing, and 'rapist' is soon to follow.

When I opposed homosexuals openly in the military because I knew that trannies were next, I was a hater.

I don't care, anymore. When I'm called a hater now I know I'm on the right side.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:43 PM (iv3H6)

370

borg is where it's at atm

international borg, I should say

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:43 PM (IXrOn)

371 And those 1st-century idjits would hide THAT under a BURKA?

Yeah, right?

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:43 PM (JtwS4)

372 359 >>>I actually think this is a good thing. It is much less covert now.


it's good/bad. it's good that it's so open and blatant now; it's bad in that pretending used to impose some restraints on them. No longer pretending = no longer restrained at all.
Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015

And being forced by tyrants to surrender our individualism might just be that hill to die on.

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (5+mPY)

373 Here's a question - could a baker refuse to bake a cake in the shape of a big dick for a gay bachelor party?
_______________________

There used to be a Big Dick Cakes store in my neighborhood, but I think they went out of business.

Posted by: Tony Weiner at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (lmdHn)

374 283 "I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square."
-Cardinal George
----------------------------------------------

Last sentence, not precisely word for word: And his successor will be left to pick up the pieces of civilization and start over.

Posted by: Boots at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (l9mF2)

375 So, there are more Christians in the US than non-Christians

I honestly believe that most people who self-identify as Christians in America... arent'. Its one thing to check off the box, but if your confession, worldview, and behavior is in opposition to what Christianity teaches, are you really Christian?

President Obama claims to be Christian, but when questioned about it was clearly not in any sense of the word a believer. There's a lot of that out there in this country, particularly in a lot of the big mainline churches. How many real Christians are sitting in the pews of a Presbyterian church with a lesbian pastor preaching about how Jesus is just one way to heaven among many and the Bible "contains" truth?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (39g3+)

376 I honestly believe these types of situations will create a backlash and cause a significant lose of support.

People can be very vocal and get their faces on TV. You can freep polls and play with the samples to twist the point of view. But what people think in their own homes is quite different.

Christians still have a pretty significant presence in our voting public. Beyond that, people seeing the hypocrisy and attacks will think twice before lending their support. Not because they care about the people's sexual preference. Because they care about personal freedom and balanced representation.

History teaches us that it doesn't end well for people considering themselves a special class and demeaning others as a means of preserving that distinction. Survival and personal freedom are innate.

Posted by: Marcus T. at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (GGCsk)

377 One thing about free choice is a thing called Jury Nullification. Basically, the State can demand its laws be followed but if the people say screw you - viola - democratic nullification. How this should work is a Christian baker takes the homo order without accepting cash and then forgets to deliver. Should work every time.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (oDCMR)

378 Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (JtwS4)

I was responding to a hypothetical. Calm yer tits.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (2Ojst)

379 Round about 1900, H. G. Wells, who was close to the Bloomsbury feys though they despised him, wrote some interesting books about the future. He hit at least three nails squarely on the head:

1. humanity will separate itself into "moral enclaves"
2. these enclaves will be at war with each other
3. the political class ('Mandarins') will be a class unto itself.

Wells was a Socialist and thus a Fascist, a connection he enthusiastically embraced.

In many ways, we are living in Wells's universe.

Posted by: Feh at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (YcLaj)

380 From the response from the left, you'd think that no gay person could possibly be expected to bake their own cake.

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (/EkKm)

381 it's good/bad. it's good that it's so open and blatant now; it's bad in that pretending used to impose some restraints on them. No longer pretending = no longer restrained at all.


-----

Perhaps that just means we are at the end game.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (gmeXX)

382
Nation of Islam.
nation of islam isn't a religion in and of itself.its islam combined with the black power movement

Posted by: kj at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (lKyWE)

383 Jesus went to get his reading glasses.

Posted by: DaveA at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (DL2i+)

384 I adopted Jazz Shaw's Hitler cake for my own hypothetical -- does a printer have the right to refuse printing up 10,000 flyers reading OBAMA IS A KENYAN COMMUNIST?

___________

Ace,

Both of these examples are not the same as the baker who refuses a gay wedding cake.

A Jew will refuse to bake a Hitler cake for anyone. The baker refuses to bake a cake for only some people and bakes a cake for others. The SoCon baker is discriminating against a group of people performing an act (wedding). The Jewish baker is discriminating against all people performing an act (celebrating Hitler). Saying no I won't bake a cake to celebrate X is fine. What isn't fine is saying I won't bake a cake to celebrate X for gay people, but I will bake a cake to celebrate X for straight people.

And the same thing with the Obama is a Kenyan flyer. A printer can say no I will not make that flyer, period. But he can't say no I won't make that flyer for black people but I will make it for white people. Or gays/straights. Or Jews/Muslims. Again the printer can discriminate against the act (calling Obama a Kenyan) but he can't discriminate against some people calling him a Kenyan and not other people.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (0LHZx)

385
How many here would actually eat a cake made by someone who was forced to make it for you?

I like to treat waitresses like shit.

You never know what you're gonna get!

Posted by: eleven at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (ykfyK)

386 Polygamy laws were found constitutional in 1878 under Reynolds v United States.

In Utah they generally don't go after the polygamists for polygamy. Not because they approve of polygamy, but because they don't want to give the polygamists a chance to take on polygamy laws in court.

Polygamy laws are probably on very shaky legal ground.

So instead they go after polygamists for tax evasion and welfare fraud.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (jhqr1)

387 Wasn't is Scientologists who put rattlesnakes in the mailbox of someone who left or was that some other cult?

AtC, I hope that nothing I have said has made you think I hate you, because that couldn't be further from the truth.
Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:31 PM (MYCIw)


Lauren, thank you, though such an apology from you is unnecessary.

Here's the thing (and this is NOT IN ANY WAY directed at you, Lauren), it's okay for people to hate me. It's okay for people to say vile things. It's okay for people to express themselves in a manner that is painful to the point where there are entire topics the comments to which I must ignore for the sake of my own mental health. It's okay to think that my existence and actions and being are a sin. It's okay to think that I will go to Hell so long as you are not advocating actions to send me there. It's okay. It is.

Because, you see, I believe in actual tolerance. I am aware, every single moment of every single day, that I am blessed beyond measure to live in the United States where I am not subject to being thrown off a building or having a wall toppled on me or being stoned to death or being set on fire while alive or being beheaded. I am blessed and blessed and blessed and blessed again.

So people say mean things. So people judge me. So people believe differently than I do. Fine. So I note that they do and I note that what they say and I note how they act and I adjust my opinion of that person accordingly, just as they do to me.

They believe and act how they do and I believe and act how I do and they don't try to hurt me and I don't try to hurt them. That's the beauty and glory and wonder of this country and I will not, I will not, not now, not ever, give that up. No. I will not.

Because, you see, I am fully aware of what happens when the power is on the other side and I do not want that power exercised against me. Not for a single second.

If the price of believing that is that my wee delicate actual human emotions get hurt? Suck it up, buttercup.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (mf5HN)

388 >>>How many here would actually eat a cake made by someone who was forced to make it for you?

no one, of course. Anyone who insults a food-maker and then eats his food is an idiot with a suicide complex.

but this isn't about the cake; this is about getting the cake-maker to knuckle under.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (PA7DS)

389 Ace-
What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel? I'm actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (LAe3v)

390 >>My libertarian principles shrugged and said "eh, fine do what you wan't I don't care."
Then they started suing bakers and florists and I was out. Forever.

Exactly.
Tolerance was rewarded with intolerance; you can no longer be left alone, agree to disagree, live and let live.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (TLTHv)

391 #279

It's funny, but the original impetus for making Scientology a religion was to stop the legal harassment LRH was taking on. You see, he was a writer of self-help books that used a lot of techniques stolen from psychology, but was vocally against the psychiatric professions (they were, after all, his primary competition).

So when he would hold group sessions in a city, local psychiatrists and psychologists would call the police on him for practicing medicine without a license.

By making his self-help movement a religion, he shut down that avenue of attack. But he discovered it held even more benefits, and the rest is history.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (HwWo9)

392 349>>> There is a devotional aspect to it -- but then there is a devotional aspect to *any* philosophic good. There was once a devotional aspect to America-loving, after all, before Obama brutalized that and made it filthy.
Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:40 PM (PA7DS)Eh....I used to joke about my religion being Americanism, but I don't think calling a fervert belief in the ideals of the American Revolution religious is particularly accurate. Also, I think it's important to separate America and the United States government. I think back to a book I once read by a Chinese dissident who took pains to distinguish between his great patriotic love for China versus his everlasting hatred of the PRC.

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (kQfqk)

393 We should look for what is right in se and not have to say God is on our side.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:23 PM (JtwS4)


That's generally easier to do when you're not incurvatus in se

Which, of course, we all are.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (V+kmg)

394 I see the fascist showed up.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (2Ojst)

395 Was this movie any good?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (b4JMJ)

396 Lone Star Heeb,
I wouldn't because I'd suspect it wouldn't taste good. Maybe add something accidentally?

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (sj3Ax)

397 Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (JtwS4)

Why should any baker be forced to make any cake for anyone?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (kff5f)

398 I have been big on sacralizing Truth lately. Whether this counts as an ersatz religion is in the eye of each beholder.


Truth is not an ersatz religion. It's the only one worth having.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (0NdlF)

399 "Let's see if the Horde notices"

Ha. If it's Noah Rothman I might punch you. This is going to sound like total ass kissing, but I read Noah's Iran article yesterday and was struck by just how...banal it was. I couldn't help but think "man, this really shows how good of a writer ace is, because he could take the same subject matter and make it not only interesting, but infuriating."

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (MYCIw)

400 they are forcing people who disagree with their political beliefs to endorse those political beliefs anyway, using the crushing power of the state to compel assent.

-
I am sick of the left's Fuhrer knows best attitude.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 04:46 PM (XUKZU)

401 #376 As evidenced by the large viewing audiences for "The Bible" and "Killing Jesus."

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at March 31, 2015 04:46 PM (Bn6aD)

402 Nation of Islam. nation of islam isn't a religion in and of itself.its islam combined with the black power movement
Posted by: kj

I know what it's not. it's not ever gonna be prosecuted for any of this shit.

Posted by: MFM at March 31, 2015 04:46 PM (Spluw)

403 >>Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:42 PM (MYCIw)
<<

THIS^

Posted by: Marcus T. at March 31, 2015 04:46 PM (GGCsk)

404 Yeah - well this is where the silent majority roars back to life. That is a very minority position. Sometimes the left does go too far.
Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (gmeXX)


------------------------------------


Just like we were saying five years ago about the things that are happening now. The left has only begun their destruction.

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2015 04:46 PM (/HX7u)

405 That's generally easier to do when you're not incurvatus in se

Which, of course, we all are.


They can repair that surgically now, I hear.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:46 PM (2Ojst)

406 Yeah - well this is where the silent majority roars back to life. That is a very minority position. Sometimes the left does go too far.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Its what people said about homosexual "marriage" ten years ago. Look at how it caused the Democrats to be slaughtered in the 2004 election! Nobody will fall for that....

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (39g3+)

407 I have a friend who is a hardcore lefty. He believes all this crap, down to the last punctuation mark.

And do you know what his activist specialty is?

"Interfaith dialogue."

(He's Jewish."

I cleverly prodded and got him to describe exactly what these "interfaith dialogue" conferences where like.

Basically, in essence, it boiled down to this:

Step 1: Invite a bunch of leftist Christian and Jews, along with a couple of Muslim taqqiya-skilled clerics, and a token Buddhist or Hindu.

Step 2: Ignore the Buddhist and Hindus. They're just tokens there for show.

Step 3: The Christians and Jews spend the weekend apologizing to, groveling in front of, and in general debasing themselves to the Muslims, who lap it up and grow psychically stronger from the debasement, like some sort of Star Trek energy-vampire aliens.

Step 4: At the end of the weekend, Christians and jes promise to do everything in their power to erode their influence over society and pave the way for their new Muslim overlords.

Step 5: Go home and feel morally righteous.

I enunciated the first syllables about Muslims hating gays and so forth, and he shut me up and flashed anger in his eyes for broaching a taboo subject.

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (K4YiS)

408 I think I live in a conservative ghetto. Nobody tries any of this stuff around here. I don't know whether that's good, in that we don't have to put up with it, or that it's bad, because by the time they get around to us, all y'all will have already been overwhelmed.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (evdj2)

409 The boomer conservatives don't get it. There is no retreat. You can't modify or clarify the law in anyway that would satisfy David Geffen. You can't stand up with Pelosi Reid and sing "we shall overcome." The best response isn't the fake indignation, it's a shrug of the shoulders. There is no way to look less guilty on race. Republicans should stop expecting goodwill from the left. The only way to stop talking about race is to just stop talking about race and not rise to the bait.

Posted by: bjk at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (RcqHr)

410 Nobody is making anyone make dick-shaped cakes.

Sure they are.
http://is.gd/ik89QA May be NSFW.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (/kI1Q)

411 I'm sure Muslim bakers will not have to make gay cakes, or Christian cakes, or anything tasty.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (TJCSB)

412 Fleeing from the Sodomite tyranny the last bakers seek Earth.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (b4JMJ)

413 Or discrimination or bigotry or whatever the latest smear is.

Posted by: bjk at March 31, 2015 04:47 PM (RcqHr)

414 They can hate all the fukc they want. If it's war they want lets go. I'd like to pursue a rational course based on idea exchange and debate but if it's simply the projection of power they want to employ we can play that way too.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at March 31, 2015 04:48 PM (W4jkE)

415
405 That's generally easier to do when you're not incurvatus in se

Which, of course, we all are.

They can repair that surgically now, I hear.



Do they use bionics?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:48 PM (0NdlF)

416 From the Willowed thread:


There is a lot of clever shit in the lawfare the left is using against
us. Besides judge shopping there is also the process of letting weak
opposing lawsuits proceed through the legal system while delaying any
lawsuits with strong attorneys or which have strong arguments to support
them. Then when the weak lawsuits wind up being lost they let us go "Oh
well the courts ruled against us - so precedent", and give up on the
strong lawsuits.

Why was the Baker allowed to get his gay wedding
cake case all the way to the supreme court so quickly? Because the left
could see he didn't have Ted Cruz arguing his case - if he had somebody
like Cruz on his side he'd still be held up in discovery on the
original court case.

Posted by: An Observation at March 31, 2015 04:48 PM (Azj5O)

417 They can repair that surgically now, I hear.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:46 PM (2Ojst)


Oh, NOW you tell me.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at March 31, 2015 04:48 PM (V+kmg)

418 After most of the guys at Volokh said the law seemed to be...well fairly average. David Bernstein railed against...well I'm still confused by it. Basically he took Tim Cook's argument and repeated it.

I would note to Bernstein (who, reminds me a lot of their version of Gabe. Incidentally, even Gabe isn't going apeshit over this law, so Bernstein is worse I suppose.)
Anyway, I'd note to Bernstein that if he sees these laws as "anti-Gay" it's only because the gay groups have sought to eliminate my right to free association. Behold then, the backlash of your own making.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 04:48 PM (HDwDg)

419
Respect cultural differences, zombie!!

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:48 PM (iv3H6)

420 Posted by: The truth at March 31, 2015 04:28 PM (ibvmu)

Do you come with the belly-button gem and bright-colored hair?

Posted by: Treasure Troll Collector at March 31, 2015 04:48 PM (lJJaE)

421 Not that I would consider myself overly religious, on of my hobbies is bible prophecies and prophecies in general a interest that makes me go mmmm, from time to time. Much has been talked about persecution of Christians during and leading up to the end times.

Many scholars talk about just prior to the return of Jesus, persecution of the saints (Christians) will increase greatly, yet the gospel will be preached over the entire world. Although some of the saints (Christians) will be executed for their faith, others will be brought before government authorities to witness to them for their beliefs. We see this almost on a daily basis, and it seems to me to be a growing event around the world getting worst day by day.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (S+el1)

422 "Nobody is making anyone make dick-shaped cakes. But we're in sixth grade now and gheyz like dickz."

I see you've never been to a bachelorette party.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (MYCIw)

423 just to make this clear: I don't disagree with Erickson's "You will be made to care" point.

I don't disagree with Laruen's (I think) observation that, realistically, these people will not permit any "Neutrals."

I agree, I think, with that dark view of what American politics really is, and really has become.

That is, I think my position is probably unrealistic. I think people are far too stupid, coarse, and ugly to actually believe in something like "I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it."

Maybe Americans 100 years ago, but Americans now? We're just European socialists without the nice architecture.

Where I get annoyed is when I see someone who seems, to me, to be sort of pushing this as a good thing.

As a straight-up observation, i can't disagree. What I don't like is that this dark, crude, stupid way of the world be used as a recruitment device.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (PA7DS)

424 >>Polygamy laws are probably on very shaky legal ground.


Yep, it was identified as the next challenge after SSM about 10 years ago by Cass Sunstein.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (TLTHv)

425 Do muslims have to bake cakes for the faggots before they throw them off of buildings?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (b4JMJ)

426
I'd like to see a cogent argument that explains how forcing someone to act against their religious beliefs is NOT discrimination against that person.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (BbwTO)

427 Incidentally-- Are there any beliefs on the left which have not been sacralized?

Yes! All Muslims have the right to refuse to service you and also the right to make you uncomfortable. Dearborn Michigan has been completely taken over, but even surrounding towns must comply. As a result, nearby churches are requested not to ring bells!

Posted by: Chilling the most at March 31, 2015 04:50 PM (zW5rQ)

428 That's generally easier to do when you're not incurvatus in se

Had to look that up. Never leave bait for a theologian.

I'll keep reading.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:50 PM (JtwS4)

429 It's a gay day.

Puts a whole new stink on rapey Tuesday.

Posted by: DaveA at March 31, 2015 04:50 PM (DL2i+)

430 Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

----

I will keep telling myself that. History does not support this idea that the left will win out in civilization. Maybe it will. But our liberty has been hard fought and won over 1000 years. During those 1000 years, the crown had periods where it pushed back and took liberty away. But in general the progress has been toward more liberty. Now maybe we have reversed in such a way that we cannot move forward again. But maybe we are just hitting another roadblock. This has been going on for 1000 years - the past 20 is a small space of time.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:50 PM (gmeXX)

431 408 I think I live in a conservative ghetto. Nobody tries any of this stuff around here. I don't know whether that's good, in that we don't have to put up with it, or that it's bad, because by the time they get around to us, all y'all will have already been overwhelmed.
Posted by: toby928(C)


It's Option B: Bad. The goal is to change the playing field around the conservative ghettos. You think you're safe in the cocoon of America, but one day you will look out your window and realize you are completely surrounded by communists, with no way out.

Sleep soundly. You will need to be alert later as you flee to your survivalist compound ahead of the braying mob.

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 04:50 PM (K4YiS)

432 389
Ace-
What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake
for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel?
I'm actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.


I'm assuming it has something to do with the provision of a "public accommodation" broadly defined. In the case of the hotel, everyone has the right to the rooms provided, whereas in the case of the gay-themed wedding cake, the provider is forced to provide something customized to the taste of the customer. But how about a wedding photographer? Are they, by virtue of being forced to provide standard photographs of the wedding, in effect being forced to provide something customized, yet still standard? The mind boggles.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 04:51 PM (LAe3v)

433
I see you've never been to a bachelorette party.



*types*

*deletes*

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 04:51 PM (0NdlF)

434 I honestly believe they will try to have their cake and eat it too, so
to speak. They don't believe this will ever roll back on them. So they
give it life and license.
***
Because so far that has been true.

And frankly they appear correct.

The proper response to the left's response to the Indiana law would be to expand it not cower.

Governor Pence should be roaring that the freedom of religion is fundamental, and like Washington, Hancock, and Adams he will be damned if he sees would be tyrants destroy our God given rights.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 31, 2015 04:51 PM (78TbK)

435 Yeah - well this is where the silent majority roars
back to life. That is a very minority position. Sometimes the left
does go too far.



Posted by: SH

I will say this, I think the Left is getting very close to a tripline here and it is going to bite them hard.

If they start in on say making Church's perform gay ceremonies, I do think they are going to be run out of town on a rail.


They got the gay marriage thing, mainly because most people just don't care enough to forbid gay marriage. But they aren't satisfied with that coming victory, it's on to making people participate in the ceremony now.

Unfortunately in this specific case, Pence blew an opportunity to make a hard push back. I think he should have crafted the law to deal specifically with people being forced to participate in gay marriage ceremonies. Instead it was vague and the MSM was able to define it with Pence failing at making a case.

Posted by: McAdams at March 31, 2015 04:51 PM (TBOhF)

436 What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel?

I should make up a cut and paste for this one because it keeps coming up.

Its pretty clear, really. Nobody is refusing to make cakes for homosexuals, they don't even know what your sexual proclivities are until you force it on them. Even if you came in gay as a spring day singing YMCA in a mesh halfshirt and leather chaps with linked cockrings around your neck, they'd probably bake you a cake if they didn't just ask you to leave. They don't care what you do in your private life, even if they don't like it.

This is the distinction here: refusing to serve blacks, period, is an opposition to blacks as blacks. Refusing to bake a wedding cake is opposition to being part of and tacitly endorsing an act you consider sinful and wrong. Its not the homosexuals they're opposed to, its the violation of marriage.

I hope that's clear enough.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:51 PM (39g3+)

437 I think that a major part of the drive for all things gay from the left is that many of them perceive being "authentically gay" as being a hedonist, or a political radical.

Bob and Tom, the couple down the street who own a print shop and assist the neighborhood watch? Not authentically gay. Bob and Tom, the couple who openly bring home 18 year old playthings, parade around in public in fetish gear, and sneer at the "breeders"? Authentically gay. The NYT, Salon, Slate, etc, all seem to run pieces which are variations on the theme of "Gays aren't monogamous, so thus gay marriage means that straight couples need to get over their antiquated expectations of monogamy." Why?

The answer is that self-discipline is the cornerstone of a free society. Hedonism cannot long exist in large amounts in a free society without undermining it. Ditto polygamy. The left has long sought to push ideas that undermine any organizations, traditions, and social structures that challenge or bypass the power of the state. Christianity (and pretty much any serious and successful religion) demands self-restraint. It places obligations on its followers to behave certain ways, but also to act to support one another, and to do so even absent the coersive force of the state. The left doesn't like that. The left likes single mothers, because they look for big daddy government. The left likes men and women engaging in random meaningless hookups, because casual sex demeans the participants and undermines social bonds. The left likes a population that is obsessed with the next drug, the next hit of pleasure, because they'll do anything and accept almost anything in order to get it.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (y5n9M)

438 Why should any baker be forced to make any cake for anyone?

I went through my thoughts on that in the last thread. It's not an issue where "I am totally right and must make you agree with me" thing with me.

I don't think I've advocated it in this thread.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (JtwS4)

439 What isn't fine is saying I won't bake a cake to celebrate X for gay
people, but I will bake a cake to celebrate X for straight people.


In fact it is beyond fine. It is a moral good to tell sodomites that their abominable behavior is intolerable, that they might eventually get a clue and repent of it. But even if they haven't the character to do that, it is a moral good to take a stand in opposition to them and the wicked people influencing government to celebrate them.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (ZbV+0)

440 >>>I enunciated the first syllables about Muslims hating gays and so forth, and he shut me up and flashed anger in his eyes for broaching a taboo subject.

yup.

and when something is TRUE, what else do you have to fight it, except anger?


You must shut the thought down, you must silence the person saying the true thing, because you have no actual argument. Stigmatization/emotionality is the only possible play.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (PA7DS)

441 358Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 04:38 PM (kQfqk)

He should be able to make, or not make, a dick-shaped cake for whoever he wants, for any reason whatsoever. Why should a baker be forced by the state to make a dick-shaped cake for anyone at all?Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:41 PM (2Ojst) My point was simply that no one would give a shit if some baker declined to bake a big dick cake for reasons of personal taste IF the cake had been ordered by a bunch of straight white girls for a bachelorette party. Gay bachelor party, though? Game the fuck on. All of this just speaks to the idiocy of picking and choosing the grounds on which a business is compelled to provide its goods and services. You can come up with a neverending number of scenarios. What if a group of rowdies at a bar are singing the Fear song "Strangulation" at the top of their lungs? (google the lyrics) Is the proprietor of the bar allowed to ask them to leave? Why?

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (kQfqk)

442 Expunging the nation of "boy" and "girl" is what's next. It will be deemed child abuse to "brainwash" a child into assuming that its genital determine its gender.

If we're going there, let's ban the teaching of evolution in schools.

Why? Because all of that talk of reproduction and natural selection will make children who identify as gay feel inferior and unwelcome.

Darwin hates gays.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (L2xDv)

443 Expunging the nation of "boy" and "girl" is what's next. It will be deemed child abuse to "brainwash" a child into assuming that its genital determine its gender.

If we're going there, let's ban the teaching of evolution in schools.

Why? Because all of that talk of reproduction and natural selection will make children who identify as gay feel inferior and unwelcome.

Darwin hates gays.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (L2xDv)

444 >>>Are there any beliefs on the left which have not been sacralized?<<<

I like the part of the movie where they threw the gay chap in the volcano.

Posted by: Fritz at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (UzPAd)

445 but this isn't about the cake; this is about getting the cake-maker to knuckle under.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (PA7DS)

Of course it is. But it is also about the absurdity of forcing a wedge between a man and his convictions. Will the man make the cake. Possibly. But it comes with consequences, the limits of which are limited only by the imagination.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (BZAd3)

446 Spot on, Ace. As usual.

Posted by: bc733 at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (fSDmm)

447 If the government can force bakers to transact with gays, then it should also force gays to buy food from Chick-fil-a. It's only fair.

Posted by: Mikey at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (L6yrA)

448

Sadly, a lot of really good people aren't even aware of what is happening, or the stakes involved.

They are just going about their business, raising their families, but bit by bit they are being brushed with it. It is only a matter of time.

Speaking of steaks, time to prep dinner.

Don't blow a vein.

(remember to put music on and dance)

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2015 04:52 PM (IXrOn)

449 >>>In fact it is beyond fine. It is a moral good to tell sodomites that their abominable behavior is intolerable, that they might eventually get a clue and repent of it. But even if they haven't the character to do that, it is a moral good to take a stand in opposition to them and the wicked people influencing government to celebrate them.b

we need to throw them off a wall or something

after all, it is "intolerable" and "abominable."

Like child murder.

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (PA7DS)

450 >>I think people are far too stupid, coarse, and ugly to actually believe
in something like "I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend your
right to say it."

Yep, it's all about stopping "hate" with "hate" defined as any variance from the accepted progressive worldview. WHy would anyone defend a hater's right to spew hate?

Haters have no rights, no protections, no humanity, nor should they have any expectation of being treated with respect. Hater = Unperson.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (TLTHv)

451
Cruz: In the face of great threats [or great whining], often it takes the same to make great change.

(I might have fudged that quote, but that's the gist.)

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (iv3H6)

452 Which, of course, we all are.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (V+kmg)



Tish, that's not French.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (mf5HN)

453 I've read and listened to everything about this Indiana thing, Ace, and your post says it better than anyone's voicing so far.

It is a shame that Pence had no one like you to prep him for his bout on the Sunday morning show. We could have won a round and had some excellent film clips for use later. Instead, Pence sucked, and we lost a big one.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (fAMNc)

454 All of this just speaks to the idiocy of picking and choosing the grounds on which a business is compelled to provide its goods and services. You can come up with a neverending number of scenarios.

If you're saying the decision to do business or not do business in any particular circumstance should remain entirely with the business owner, I agree with you.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (2Ojst)

455 I tend to think the country went off rails when the public decided that the smoking nazi's were right and if I want to go to a bar to get drunk, I should be able to do it smoke-free. Because I only want to damage my liver - not my lungs.

The progressives really learned how much power they had from those experiences.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (gmeXX)

456 What do people expect from a group that has lied about their goals at every turn? Homosexuals are evil. Evil people do evil stuff like enslave people to bake cakes for them. Homosexuals only look benign due to the fact they were powerless.

Homosexuals in power will never, ever be tolerant, kind or just. Instead they will force themselves on you and your children.

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (FQMPG)

457 I think people are far too stupid, coarse, and ugly to actually believe in something like "I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it."

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (PA7DS)


I disagree with this (but I'll defned your right to say it nyuk, nyuk, nyuk).

Some people don't believe this at all. They're the least dangerous because you already know who they are.

Some people have to be reminded that this is actually what they believe. Only then will their spine stiffen.

Some people believe this with all their heart, but they're generally the silent type. There are more of them that you think.

Some people mouth this shit and will abandon this belief at the first sign of pushback.

Something tells me it's going to become much easier to separate people into these tribes very soon.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (V+kmg)

458
@443
Darwin is dead and (I honestly hope) not damned (srsly, 'damn it' is a pretty scary thing to say when you think about it) . He's not doing a lot of hating either way he ended up in the hereafter.

But I do take your point.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:55 PM (k8xvx)

459 Could we have a draft that only drafts gays? I'm thinking of a really special operation in the Mid East that only gays could perform. It would be good for the country - I promise - even if the promised air support didn't show up. Is there a bay in the ME called Fags?

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 04:55 PM (oDCMR)

460 / sock fail

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:55 PM (V+kmg)

461 I think that as a Native Texan, I will have the Right of Return when she secedes. At least I'm hoping so.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 04:55 PM (evdj2)

462
Hater = Unperson

Exactly why they use the word. It has power...on most.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 04:55 PM (iv3H6)

463 How about demanding a gay baker make a cake for the Westboro Baptists? One that says Fags Go To Hell.

Posted by: Cruzinator at March 31, 2015 04:55 PM (sIhFA)

464 Polygamy laws are probably on very shaky legal ground.

***
Polygamy was the norm for a significant part of recorded history. Unlike "gay marriage".

It is good for society to defeat hypergamy by law and not allow polygamy, but our society has decided that "love" is all that matters right...?

Posted by: 18-1 at March 31, 2015 04:55 PM (78TbK)

465 religious beliefs are "substantially burdened"

Most everyone here believes the lefts crap has substantially burdened the US past the point of fail.

Our Ewok,
Who art later than the art thread.
Vexatious litigants shall not know his name.

Posted by: DaveA at March 31, 2015 04:56 PM (DL2i+)

466 methos,

I totally agree, I mean, Jesus spoke so frequently about the evils of homosexuality.

Why, 90% of his message was Gay Is Bad.

Right?

Or do you think maybe you're smuggling your own beliefs into the religion and claiming that's what Jesus said?

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:56 PM (PA7DS)

467 I still like Greg Gutfeld's Muslim Gay Bar idea.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 04:56 PM (MYCIw)

468 I think people are far too stupid, coarse, and ugly to actually believe in something like "I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it."

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (PA7DS)

Hate the sin love the sinner.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 04:56 PM (S+el1)

469 @436

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking in @432. Provision of a standard item, which requires no implicit assent to any position, is one thing, but forcing someone to mouth words they find repellant (the customized aspect) is another.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 04:56 PM (LAe3v)

470 No baker should have to bake a cake shaped like Mr. Moo Moo.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (b4JMJ)

471 Maybe, just maybe, this isn't about persecuting Christians. Maybe it is about making them be nondiscriminatory. Like not allowing a florist to fail to serve a biracial couple even if it goes against their religious beliefs. One should not be able to hide behind their religion to illegally discriminate.
Posted by: The truth
----------------------------

Oh, but I do discriminate...., against all sorts of what I regard as bad behavior. Behavior that I regard as deleterious to polite, civilized behavior. As do you, no doubt.

Here is the distinction...., if you wish to associate yourself with others, and form a 'church' devoted to the principle that anal intercourse is natural, normal, and healthy, then have it. You may do so without the slightest fear that people like myself will show up with guns, and compel you to perform real marriages.

That, is not what you have in mind, however, you have in mind compelling the acts of others. I doubt not that you perceive yourself as occupying the moral high ground, because like most on the Left, you are morally confused.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (l1zOH)

472 I've never been to a bachelorette party but from what I understand its primarily about embarrassing the poor bride to be and things shaped like wangs.

And someone mentioned this above but yes, without a doubt, women are far more filthy than men. They just hide it better and keep it to their own kind. I believe that if men could read minds, women would get into all sorts of trouble all day long.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (39g3+)

473 Tish, that's not French.
Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (mf5HN)


Work with me here, I don't get to use the Theology degree all that often.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (V+kmg)

474 That's generally easier to do when you're not incurvatus in se

Which, of course, we all are.

They can repair that surgically now, I hear.

-
They remove the conscience?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (XUKZU)

475 What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel? I'm actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.

1) This is a huge problem with the CRA. If I do not have a right to refuse service to one group, to whom do I have a right to refuse service?

2) Insofar as there is a distinction: being black (or asian, or hispanic) is simply what you are. You are black by virtue of... having been born black. There are not "black actions" and "white actions."

Homosexual weddings are about something homosexuals are doing. Setting aside the "born/choice" argument, nothing inherent to them as human beings requires that they have a wedding- let alone a reception, with a cake from a particular baker, etc.

So while discrimination against someone's ethnicity could (logically- though I still see no moral authority for it) be made illegal, that would not directly apply to a completely optional thing that a homosexual (or anyone else, for that matter) wants to do.

There are flaws in that, of course, which is why the moral authority argument is so important. But, I suspect, that would show the CRA (or large sections of it) to be morally bankrupt.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (kff5f)

476 Seems like everywhere we go now, we run into the Red Queen.

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 04:58 PM (5+mPY)

477 Homosexuals are evil

So there's the pure form.

No. Fuck no. That isn't "H8", that's hate. Fuck that in particular.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:58 PM (JtwS4)

478
@474
It's called entertaining oneself and filling oneself so full of distractions that moral questions and moral realities rarely if ever appear, and are easily dismissed on appearance. It's a sort of spiritual surgery that can cripple a soul very effectively.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 04:58 PM (k8xvx)

479 >>Polygamy laws are probably on very shaky legal ground.

Yep, it was identified as the next challenge after SSM about 10 years ago by Cass Sunstein.
Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 04:49 PM (TLTHv)


--------------------------------------------


Just wait until you get a load of our demands. Yeah, we're still here and we're ready to make our move. We're comin' at ya.

Posted by: NAMBLA at March 31, 2015 04:58 PM (/HX7u)

480 Work with me here, I don't get to use the Theology degree all that often.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (V+kmg)


Yes...well still more often than I get to tout my credentials.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 04:59 PM (HDwDg)

481 I think people are far too stupid, coarse, and ugly to actually believe in something like "I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it."

-
I think people have been manipulated by the politicians and by the media into becoming too stupid, coarse, and ugly to actually believe in something like "I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it."

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 04:59 PM (XUKZU)

482 What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel? I'm actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.

-----

600,000 dead

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 04:59 PM (gmeXX)

483 Ace, in most of these examples, the florist or baker happily served Gay customers. It wasn't about discriminating against someone because they were gay, but refusing to use their artistic talents to celebrate a point of view with which they disagreed.

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 31, 2015 04:59 PM (0Ew3K)

484 I'm not shy, and I wouldn't deny if the law were, indeed, to allow bakers to not bake cakes for homosexual weddings.

The law is a RFRA. It's the 22nd state RFRA. And all that it says is that when someone sues the baker who won't bake a cake, the baker's religion will be taken into account.

The law *restores* Religious Freedom, because the 1st Amendment was being trampled on. The government won't establish a religion, but it will stomp on yours... that's inconsistent.

That's what this is about. That's all that this is about. And if a judge finds that homosexuals can't get a cake baked anywhere in Indiana, and that's discrimination, and that discrimination is more important than the First Amendment - then they have to SAY "THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE FIRST FRIGGING AMENDMENT THAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS WROTE. GETTING A FUCKING CAKE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ALLOWING A MUSLIM TO SAY 'MY RELIGION WILL NOT ALLOW ME TO SHIP MY CRAFT, EVEN IF PAID FOR, TO SUCH AN ACTION AS THIS."

Because that's when things will get interesting. I want to see the first Gay Couple who take a muslim to court over this.

Let's see the shrill folk put on their big-boy pants and take on the Religion of Tolerance and Peace.

C'mon, tough guys. Show me your brass. Get a muslim to put two male statues on top of a cake.

Posted by: RobM1981 at March 31, 2015 05:00 PM (zurJC)

485 Yes...well still more often than I get to tout my credentials.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 04:59 PM (HDwDg)


Yes, and I'll take a triple venti latte with two raw sugar please.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:00 PM (V+kmg)

486 What baker has a cake pan shaped like a cock?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:00 PM (b4JMJ)

487 Islam and the left may seem unlikely bedfellows but they share a common hatred. Both believe the US to be the Great Satan.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 05:00 PM (XUKZU)

488 377
One thing about free choice is a thing called Jury Nullification.
Basically, the State can demand its laws be followed but if the people
say screw you - viola - democratic nullification. How this should work
is a Christian baker takes the homo order without accepting cash and
then forgets to deliver. Should work every time.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 04:44 PM (oDCMR)


The State is getting around that by forcing potential jurors to sign a certificate saying they will rule their verdict solely based on the written law. Any vote contrary to the law as written is considered false swearing and punishable by 5 years and $5K.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (wlDny)

489 In Utah they generally don't go after the polygamists for polygamy. Not because they approve of polygamy, but because they don't want to give the polygamists a chance to take on polygamy laws in court.

Polygamy laws are probably on very shaky legal ground.

So instead they go after polygamists for tax evasion and welfare fraud.
Posted by: bonhomme at March 31, 2015 04:45 PM (jhqr1)

Also optics. Rounding up kids and tearing them from their moms tends to not rally people to your cause, even for those that are anti polygamy. There are subtler, more Al Capone-y ways to go about it. Because holy hannah, the tax fraud. Rampant.

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (yRwC8)

490 I mean, the ACLU used to take the side of those unpopular on the left on principle; they don't do that now.

I never thought they did it on principle. They were founded, seriously, by communists. They got a lot of success and were popular for a while. I think that led some of them to think they were acting on principle and would pursue some of these cases that displeased the left.

But to be honest, I think it was for show. They'd defend the Klan's right to march, make a big deal about it, blather about rights, so they could defend the clients they really cared about.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (L2xDv)

491 Speaking of Stuff Jesus Said...

I heard an interesting sermon a few weeks ago while visiting my in-laws.

Basically, the message (and to understand the audience, this was delivered to UPC Pentecostals) was that aside from the Gospels and Acts, the remainder of the NT is unconcerned with the unbeliever, but instead focuses on how we, the Body of Christ, are to live our lives. His point was that evangelism often fails because we try to impose those later teachings instead of doing as commanded and simply spreading The Gospel and preaching in accordance with Acts.

A fairly simple point, but I'd never heard it articulated in quite that way before.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (MYCIw)

492 Or do you think maybe you're smuggling your own beliefs into the religion and claiming that's what Jesus said?

Ace, you're treading into territory you don't know as well as you think you do.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (0NdlF)

493 Yes, and I'll take a triple venti latte with two raw sugar please.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:00 PM (V+kmg)

That's almost a half-gallon of coffee. You don't mess around.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (2Ojst)

494 454
All of this just speaks to the idiocy of picking and choosing the
grounds on which a business is compelled to provide its goods and
services. You can come up with a neverending number of scenarios.



If you're saying the decision to do business or not do business in
any particular circumstance should remain entirely with the business
owner, I agree with you.

Posted by: Insomniac

In my perfect world, a business is allowed to make that choice on whatever grounds it wants to just on the grounds of private property and ownership. If a Muslim restaurant doesn't want to serve a Jew or Christian, fine. But I definitely don't think politically its smart to push for laws like that as that question was settled in the 1960's.

Not doing business with a homosexual and not participating in a ceremony that you consider sacriligious are two very different things and one is far easier to defend than the other.

Posted by: McAdams at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (TBOhF)

495 I have to wonder how many other people had a similar path to enlightenment.

^^^^

@Lauren,

Raising my hand here. Again, I'm Catholic so I've never supported legalizing same sex marriage, but I did support civil unions for some time. And I still don't care what people do in their bedrooms. It's this crap now that I am apparently a hateful bigot for not caring instead of actively advocating for a specific lifestyle added to the ever broadening list of who we must force to recognize and participate in same that pisses me off and has turned me against any public recognition of same sex unions.


@Soothsayer,

The hater thing is so pervasive because it's lazy and easy. It's so much easier to label someone as a "hater" because then their arguments, logic, reasons, etc an be dismissed at the outset.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 31, 2015 05:02 PM (KkVB6)

496 466 methos,

I totally agree, I mean, Jesus spoke so frequently about the evils of homosexuality.

Why, 90% of his message was Gay Is Bad.

Right?

Or do you think maybe you're smuggling your own beliefs into the religion and claiming that's what Jesus said?

Posted by: ace at March 31, 2015 04:56 PM (PA7DS)

Interesting. My take away from the Jesus talks was that to be a Disciple, we'd have to grow a pair. Which a lot of so-called Christians have not grasped. Which makes them kind of easy to bully.

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 05:02 PM (5+mPY)

497 Yes, and I'll take a triple venti latte with two raw sugar please.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:00 PM (V+kmg)




Having said that, bioethicists know how to ensconce themselves in regulatory requirements.

I had a job offer actually. I decided that my little girl was more important for the time being. (Plus the dissertation. Although that wasn't a requirement for the job.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:02 PM (HDwDg)

498 The State is getting around that by forcing potential jurors to sign a certificate saying they will rule their verdict solely based on the written law. Any vote contrary to the law as written is considered false swearing and punishable by 5 years and $5K.

-----

Yeah - no due process violation there.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 05:02 PM (gmeXX)

499
@ 491
Good point, Lauren!

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:02 PM (k8xvx)

500
Governor Pence should be roaring that the freedom of religion is fundamental, and like Washington, Hancock, and Adams he will be damned if he sees would be tyrants destroy our God given rights.
Posted by: 18-1



Stick around. As reported this week, one of the goals of Team Well Behaved is to get the gay marriage and RF planks out of the 2016 Republican platform. Because my gay son and electable.

With the example of the hard creased fold by almost all of the GOP this week, those are planks are gone, and then we're all just one big tent full of government enforced acceptance.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 31, 2015 05:03 PM (kdS6q)

501 Work with me here, I don't get to use the Theology degree all that often.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 04:57 PM (V+kmg)


Don't make me bust out the Lawyer Latin.

This is where I tell the story about going out with a bunch of us from law school and a friend brought his girl friend who was a classics major and she finally lost it and started screaming THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT MEANS! THAT'S NOT HOW YOU PRONOUNCE THAT! STOP IT! STOP IT!

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:03 PM (mf5HN)

502 I hope no one thinks that Freedom of Religion is the only First Amendment right at risk here.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (MMC8r)

503 It wasn't about discriminating against someone because they were gay, but refusing to use their artistic talents to celebrate a point of view with which they disagreed.

Again, making a wedding cake, wedding photography, making floral arrangements doesn't end with the craft. You become and are part of the wedding celebration. You asking people to become part of an event against their religious/moral objections. In a way demeaning their craft person's belief system.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (S+el1)

504 Saying no I won't bake a cake to celebrate X is fine. What isn't fine is saying I won't bake a cake to celebrate X for gay people, but I will bake a cake to celebrate X for straight people.
_______________________

If it violates a person's religious beliefs to bake a wedding cake for gays, then it is certainly not "fine" for courts to force them to do it.

Yes, gays have the right to buy wedding cakes, but Christian bakers have rights too. They have First Amendment rights to the free exercise of their religion. The bakers can't freely exercise their religion if the state is forcing them to violate their religious beliefs.

That is why the RFRA laws require that when two parties' rights conflict, the courts must balance the equities and determine whose rights are more entitled to legal protection in the situation at issue.

In the gay wedding cake cases, there are always numerous other nearby bakers who would happily accept the gay customer's business. So the inconvenience to the gay person of being denied the right to purchase his wedding cake from the Christian baker would be minimal, while the infringement of the baker's religious rights, if he were forced to provide the gay wedding cake, would be substantial. So in this situation, the Christian baker's religious rights are more entitled to protection than the gay customer's consumer rights.

Just because somebody chooses to go into business doesn't mean that they must surrender all their constitutional rights in order to stay in business.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (lmdHn)

505
@493
Apparently he doesn't. Wow. On my best day I could never drink that much coffee.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (k8xvx)

506 Several days ago, someone here wrote that Obama is the Anti-Christ.

I have been thinking about that and this is what I have synthesized.

Obama is an anti-Christ. He has a coalition of anti-Christs. He has garnered the support of every anti-Christian in the country. Pro-abortion? Check. Muslim? Check. Liberal Democratic Jews? Check. Communist? Check. This list goes on and on.

He won because the Christian are fragmented. I know good Christians who are misled into thinking that Social Justice is something that Big Gubmint can achieve.




Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (V70Uh)

507 What do people expect from a group that has lied about their goals at every turn? Homosexuals are evil. Evil people do evil stuff like enslave people to bake cakes for them.
Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 04:54 PM (FQMPG)


No. No, and fuck no. OK?

I usually find it unpleasant when the mask slips on what is nominally "my side." ::: sigh ::::

Ascribing the characteristics of a small set to the entire group is known as the "Fallacy of Composition" Maybe you could read up on that.

But first.....

go back a bit and read your Bible in all four senses of Scripture. No selective quoting now! There will be a test in the morning.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (V+kmg)

508
schumer: the difference between his law and Indiana's law is: his law protected people's right to worship, whereas Indiana's law protects businesses' right to discriminate

Yeah, he really said that. How do you argue with a liar who spews bullshit? You can't.


Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (iv3H6)

509
One thing that always annoys me - I'm not remotely interested in what anyone does with their genitalia (with a few exceptions, particularly Bar Refaeli and Olga Kurylenko). You're a guy who wants to plow other guys, have at it. But I, as a heterosexual man, have no interest in witnessing dudes making out. Ergo, I'm branded a "hater". Shit, I don't want to see fatties rubbing up on each other either but no one cares about them, so that's OK. And I'm really not amused by what constitutes the bulk of what's presented as "gay culture" either, but if you don't enthusiastically endorse the full spectrum of gayness, you're a bigot. Why? I'm not asking the gays and lesbianswithout exceptionsto become big hockey fans, start dipping Copenhagen and watching spaghetti westerns. I have my interests, they have theirs, everyone's happy. If theirs coincide with mine, super, if not, who cares?

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (kQfqk)

510 Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:03 PM (mf5HN

Whenever we'd get a wayward classics major premed (they exist, mostly to pad GPAs for med school admission) in the lab they'd get very distraught at the obviously made up "latin"

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (HDwDg)

511 Stick around. As reported this week, one of the goals of Team Well Behaved is to get the gay marriage and RF planks out of the 2016 Republican platform.

-----

I've never read the GOP platform - but I imagine it is much larger than it should be. In general I would think the platform should be about 5 items long.

Posted by: SH at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (gmeXX)

512 THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT MEANS! THAT'S NOT HOW YOU PRONOUNCE THAT! STOP IT! STOP IT!
Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:03 PM (mf5HN)


So you did it even more?

Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (y5n9M)

513 This is where I tell the story about going out with a bunch of us from law school and a friend brought his girl friend who was a classics major and she finally lost it and started screaming THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT MEANS! THAT'S NOT HOW YOU PRONOUNCE THAT! STOP IT! STOP IT!
Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:03 PM (mf5HN)


Ecclesiastical Latin is a different cat than Classical Latin.

Word

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (V+kmg)

514 I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I'm fucking retarded but I don't care, I'm beautiful. I'm having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me "Apache" and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can't accept me you're a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

Posted by: YOU MUST ACCEPT ME! at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (Tj+s6)

515 502 I hope no one thinks that Freedom of Religion is the only First Amendment right at risk here.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:04 PM (MMC8r)

I think we can boil it down to "freedom", and leave it at that.

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (5+mPY)

516
According to schumer and the Democrats, you have all the religious freedom you want...in the privacy of your own home or church building.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (iv3H6)

517
512 THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT MEANS! THAT'S NOT HOW YOU PRONOUNCE THAT! STOP IT! STOP IT!
Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:03 PM (mf5HN)

So you did it even more?

Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (y5n9M)


Was it cute how flustered she got?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:06 PM (0NdlF)

518 There is also an Amendment banning slavery. Involuntary servitude. Making people do a job they don't want to do. Most of our judges are unregistered foreign agents.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:06 PM (b4JMJ)

519 we need to throw them off a wall or something

I doubt that's enough time to sincerely repent.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 05:06 PM (ZbV+0)

520 According to schumer and the Democrats, you have all the religious freedom you want...in the privacy of your own home or church building.

For now.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 05:07 PM (evdj2)

521 I enunciated the first syllables about Muslims hating gays and so forth, and he shut me up and flashed anger in his eyes for broaching a taboo subject.


Sorry. For those type people, I sweep the leg, then curb stomp. They don't get off that easy.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 05:07 PM (DXB+X)

522 Guess I'll take my non-gay hypothetical and wander off. I'm sure it'll come up again in the not-too-distant future.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (NeFrd)

523 That's almost a half-gallon of coffee. You don't mess around.
Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (2Ojst)


Twenty one years in the Army.

I have a lot of catching up to do.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (V+kmg)

524 >>>What do people expect from a group that has lied about their goals at every turn? Homosexuals are evil. Evil people do evil stuff



Okay, slowwwww down there, partner. You had me until "evil." Evil, really? Do you even know any gay people? Because that is the last word I'd use to describe most of them.

I despise some of the teachings of the gay community as a hive mind collective. But gay individuals? No. Except maybe Dan Savage and Ryan Murphy, hah. You are free to call those two twits whatever the crap you want.

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (yRwC8)

525 I am old enough to remember when businesses had signs in their windows that said, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason," and nobody questioned their right to do so.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (BZAd3)

526 From now on I want you guys to call me "Apache"

Posted by: YOU MUST ACCEPT ME! at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (Tj+s6)

We are sorry.... but you cannot call youself Apache, as American Indians are a protected class....

the rest???? AOK!

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (qh617)

527 So you did it even more?

Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 31, 2015 05:05 PM (y5n9M)

Was it cute how flustered she got?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:06 PM (0NdlF)


Yes and yes.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (mf5HN)

528 "Thus a CEO was run out of Mozilla after it turned out that he had donated money to a California referendum opposing same-sex marriage."

Not merely that.

Said CEO having had his professional career destroyed for his temerity in continuing to hold, in 2014, the identical view on gay marriage publicly professed by Barack Obama up until early 2013.

Anyone familiar with the long and shabby history of the left will recognize this pattern of abrupt doctrinal shifts decreed from above.

After each one of which, various unfortunates who were tardy in prompt conformance to the newly promulgated doctrine ended up as "vanished commissars".

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (noWW6)

529 they'd get very distraught at the obviously made up "latin"

-
Like "Bigus Dickus"?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (XUKZU)

530 429 It's a gay day.

Puts a whole new stink on rapey Tuesday.
Posted by: DaveA at March 31, 2015 04:50 PM (DL2i+

I still like payday Friday better

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (l1zOH)

531 ot/ Good news... The Iran "deal" is soo close they're continuing till Wed!

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (Bn6aD)

532 So when do Black Christians rise up in anger?

Posted by: Spudskie at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (WxxY3)

533 88 377

The State is getting around that by forcing potential jurors to sign a certificate saying they will rule their verdict solely based on the written law. Any vote contrary to the law as written is considered false swearing and punishable by 5 years and $5K.

---------------------------
Well I know how to avoid jury from here on out. Thanks.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (oDCMR)

534 No. Fuck no. That isn't "H8", that's hate. Fuck that in particular.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 04:58 PM (JtwS4)


Agreed.

Homosexuals are no more "evil" for their homosexuality than I am for all of the sins I commit.

I deserve hell every bit as much as they do (and more if they didn't choose to be homosexual- isn't that a fun thought), and will only be spared Hell Fire by the Mercy and Grace of the Cross.

Want to have fun with a certain subset of "Christians?" Point out that according to Jesus, we're all murderers and adulterers. Then watch them tie themselves in knots explaining how a)no that's not what he meant and b)but I'm saved so it doesn't apply to me anyway.

My problems with homosexual marriage are, indeed, Religious as far as *my* involvement with them (which is none, at the moment- but a possibility exists with one of my wife's cousins and his boyfriend). But they are purely logical/sociological from how I think Government should view them.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (kff5f)

535
I'd expand this critique.
In the case of the baker that won't bake a gay wedding cake, both parties suffer. That is the gay couple has to go and find another baker, and the baker loses their business. Both suffer just a little bit, but more or less equally.
By definition, if you suffer from you actions, then your actions are driven by profound moral belief, rather than you personal self-interest.

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (/EkKm)

536 Give me a white chocolate espresso sessanta.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (b4JMJ)

537 432
389

Ace-
What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake

for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel?

I'm actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.

>I'm
assuming it has something to do with the provision of a "public
>accommodation" broadly defined. In the case of the hotel, everyone has
the >right to the rooms provided, whereas in the case of the gay-themed
wedding >cake, the provider is forced to provide something customized to
the taste of >the customer. But how about a wedding photographer? Are
they, by virtue of >being forced to provide standard photographs of the
wedding, in effect being >forced to provide something customized, yet
still standard? The mind boggles.

The easy answer is one I almost never see; one column touched this a couple days ago; forget where I saw it.

You cannot discriminate againts someone based on race because 1) they have no control over their race and 2) there is no rational argument that race by itself impacts your (hotel, business, society) in any way other than aesthetics.

Engaging in homosexual behavior (and of course seeking legal and social endorsement and protection of such behavior through marriage) is incontrovertibly a choice (apart from rape) and there are mountains of data supporting the argument that this behavior can be harmful individually (std/depression/suicide rates) and socially (children not born/raised apart from both biological parents.

Religion does not need to be invoked to make the argument against forcing people to endorse behavior they believe to be harmful.


Posted by: pashmr at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (3aNC4)

538 Naturally, the big topic of discussion at work was RuPaul's Drag Race, and of coarse (sic) there was much ribald jest at the expense of the perps. Our boss, a stand-up fellow, cautioned us that cross-dressers were fair game, but trannies were a protected class.

If you cannot laugh at a brace of coked up tranny hookers penetrating a Sooper Secret agency's defenses, then you, sir or madam, are tired of life itself.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (KH1sk)

539 I don't think I'd eat a cake that was made under threat of litigation. Just saying .

Posted by: Cruzinator at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (sIhFA)

540 Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (yRwC

I do not dislike Gays...

I dislike Gay mannerisms, and the destructive Gay culture.

Or in other words... I dislike how they CHOOSE to Act...

You may not be able to help being Gay, but you sure as hell can control how you interact with people.

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (qh617)

541 Interesting. My take away from the Jesus talks was that to be a Disciple, we'd have to grow a pair. Which a lot of so-called Christians have not grasped. Which makes them kind of easy to bully.
Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 05:02 PM (5+mPY)


-------------------------------------------


This is true. Following Christian principles is not for the weak-kneed. We have to always stand.

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (/HX7u)

542 Homosexuals are no more "evil" for their homosexuality than I am for all of the sins I commit.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (kff5f)


THIS.

Last time I checked only God had the power to weigh the depth of sin.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (V+kmg)

543 The outrage and refusal to accept dissent is a little more calculated than that. It's partly about shifting the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window Overton window.

Posted by: anonymous irishman at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (DJgfL)

544 Sean,

Is licentiousness sinful? Are homosexual acts a violation of chastity and sinful?

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:11 PM (FQMPG)

545
532 So when do Black Christians rise up in anger?
Posted by: Spudskie at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (WxxY3)

This is kind of a Third Rail thingy...

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 05:11 PM (5+mPY)

546 Allen ... you should do a blog.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:11 PM (oKFzc)

547 The essence of capitalism is that both parties to a transaction voluntarily enter into the transaction. It's a lot like freedom.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 05:11 PM (XUKZU)

548
If you cannot laugh at a brace of coked up tranny hookers penetrating a Sooper Secret agency's defenses, then you, sir or madam, are tired of life itself.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (KH1sk)


There will be no guards with barriers at NoVAMoMee 3.

You can still come as a tranny hooker though.

Jus sayin'

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:11 PM (V+kmg)

549 This is true. Following Christian principles is not for the weak-kneed. We have to always stand.

And it will rarely be on ground that makes us look good.

Yet we must stand for truth, or not stand at all.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (0NdlF)

550 Sell your cloak and buy a sword. He wanted men who weren't above sticking a mother Kcufer.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (b4JMJ)

551 Last time I checked only God had the power to weigh the depth of sin.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:10 PM (V+kmg)

We all come before god as sinners. Except maybe AtC.

Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (S+el1)

552
And this is all why Goldwater was absolutely right to oppose the CRA. The goals might have been noble, but it leads to the kind of idiocy where merchants are allowed to refuse service under certain conditions and not others. Hence, a baker would likely be allowed to refuse the dick cake to Whitey Whitegirl's bachelorette but not Big Gay Al's Big Gay Bachelor Party, and somehow this kind of discrimination based on the prevailing public opinion is considered to be reasonable. Why should an ostensibly free citizen ever be compelled by the weight of the law (and, taken to its furthest extension, by the force of state-sanctioned violence) to do any kind of service for anyone else?

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (kQfqk)

553
@ 507
I'm with you on this one, Bannion, e'en though you are a Papist (I kid, I kid.).

To get serious:Ken, you were evil. You were utterly irredeemable by anything you could say or do. You are no longer that, you are a new creation, in Christ Jesus. That did not come out of anything you did. That is free grace, and the only thing you did was grab onto the life line. Your grabbing onto that rope didn't save you, ultimately. He was the one who pulled you out via the rope. Before your rebirth, you were as evil as the vilest alcoholic, or adulterer, or pornography addict. In God's sight, there was no difference between you and those you call evil, whatever their failing. There should be nothing,absolutely nothing,other than totallove and brokenness inyour heart for those who are what you once were.

And yes,like Bannion said, you shouldn't ascribe to the traits of the most activeand vocal a group to the whole. Would you be tarred with Fred Phelps?

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (k8xvx)

554 It all started with affirmative action and hate crimes legislation. As I always said it would.

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (/EkKm)

555 So..., Jewish Congregations must celebrate Easter, right?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (l1zOH)

556 you have all the religious freedom you want...in the privacy of your own home or church building.

For now.
Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 05:07 PM (evdj2)

Aww, that's cute you think so.

Posted by: NSA, checking you out on your phone right this minute at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (yRwC8)

557 Boss Moss: "What baker has a cake pan shaped like a cock?"

Now? All of them. Even if the new law is an ass. Especially if the new law is an ass.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (1CroS)

558 I do not dislike Gays...

I dislike Gay mannerisms, and the destructive Gay culture.

Or in other words... I dislike how they CHOOSE to Act...
-
Why should I even have to know they're gay?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (XUKZU)

559 I totally agree, I mean, Jesus spoke so frequently about the evils of homosexuality.



Why, 90% of his message was Gay Is Bad.



Right?



Or do you think maybe you're smuggling your own beliefs into the religion and claiming that's what Jesus said?


Jesus is the same God as spoke in/through the Old Testament and pronounced homosexuality an abomination. There are several instances in the new testament when someone (usually Paul) makes a list of folks who aren't getting into Heaven, with homosexuals (and cowards) noted prominently.

Jesus message was of forgiveness for sins, *with repentance* and the command to go sin no more. Those who want to claim that sins are not sins are Jesus' enemies because they seek to cut people of from the step of repentance.

If not for that I would not care about the matter. I simply don't wish to live in a country dedicated to evil.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (ZbV+0)

560 We all come before god as sinners. Except maybe AtC.
Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (S+el1)


Dear God:

*points wildly*

I DID NOT SAY THAT. I DO NOT THINK THAT. PLEASE TO NOT BE SMITING ME FOR THAT AS OPPOSED TO ALL THE OTHER STUFF.

Fearfully and whatnot, me

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (mf5HN)

561 You can still come as a tranny hooker though.


*makes notes*


Man, I really want cake.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (/kI1Q)

562 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil.

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (FQMPG)

563 Wasn't there a Ken a few years back who did the same sort of inflammatory commentary?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (0NdlF)

564 541,

Bonhoeffer called it "Cheap Grace."


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (V70Uh)

565 Tammy Bruce is pretty hot ... but she won't have sex with me because I'm a dude.


I call "Discrimination" !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (oKFzc)

566 Sean, Is licentiousness sinful? Are homosexual acts a violation of chastity and sinful?
Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:11 PM (FQMPG)


They sure are.

It's also not for you personally to judge. Leave that to someone far more qualified. M'kay?

If you're going to harbor that much hate, then you just might want to head to Confession before we get to Easter.

Even if you're not Catholic.

I mean...it is Holy Week and all.

Because that was some weapons grade sin in that post.

Jus' sayin'

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (V+kmg)

567 "
Is licentiousness sinful? Are homosexual acts a violation of chastity and sinful? "

Yes, and so is lusting after Kate Upton's boobs.

The horde has been judged and found guilty. So...now what?

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (MYCIw)

568 John Nolte @NolteNC 3m3 minutes ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

RT Arkansas lawmakers approve religious liberty bill amid firestorm over Indiana law -
http://t.co/VGpJD1qLCU

Posted by: Progtard 2000 at March 31, 2015 05:15 PM (ZPrif)

569 There will be no guards with barriers at NoVAMoMee 3.

You can still come as a tranny hooker though.

Jus sayin'
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:11 PM (V+kmg)
-------
Expect the walls to be breached. I will bring expert sappers, fappers, and fluffers and I will leave a smoking crater where once a quaint public house stood.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at March 31, 2015 05:15 PM (KH1sk)

570 Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (mf5HN)

Awww, flustercute!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:15 PM (0NdlF)

571 Alex did not return my message to play "Destiny" on the xBox some time ago. Could have been because she thought I was a creeper.


But I don't think so. I think she ignored me because I'm a dude. DISCRIMINATION !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:15 PM (oKFzc)

572 Man, I really want cake.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (/kI1Q)



I know, right?

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (mf5HN)

573 If it violates a person's religious beliefs to bake a wedding cake for
gays, then it is certainly not "fine" for courts to force them to do it.




Yes, gays have the right to buy wedding cakes, but Christian bakers
have rights too. They have First Amendment rights to the free exercise
of their religion. The bakers can't freely exercise their religion if
the state is forcing them to violate their religious beliefs.



That is why the RFRA laws require that when two parties' rights
conflict, the courts must balance the equities and determine whose
rights are more entitled to legal protection in the situation at issue.



In the gay wedding cake cases, there are always numerous other
nearby bakers who would happily accept the gay customer's business. So
the inconvenience to the gay person of being denied the right to
purchase his wedding cake from the Christian baker would be minimal,
while the infringement of the baker's religious rights, if he were
forced to provide the gay wedding cake, would be substantial. So in
this situation, the Christian baker's religious rights are more entitled
to protection than the gay customer's consumer rights.


That's an excellent summary, thanks. The problem I see is that ultimately, it comes down to the personal preferences of 9 old people. There are no absolute metrics or rules, just "how do I feel the day I write the opinion". I don't really see a solution, though.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (LAe3v)

574 I wonder if C.S. Lewis considered this before he wrote the Gospels?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (b4JMJ)

575 Are homosexual acts a violation of chastity and sinful?

I am off to drink and listen to a podcast and then hang out with No. 2 Son, but I want to leave the explanation here about why the Bander is half gay in these threads.

I figure there are basically four gay male acts: give/get head, give/get anal. I have received head and given anal with decidedly pleasurable results. So even though it's been with girls, I have done half of the gay acts.

If you start saying that it's sinful to get a BJ I think you'll lose a lot of the Horde.

And the other reason I identify as half gay is to remind people that there are actual wholly normal gay people in their lives and to maybe think twice about some of the blanket statements about "all gheyz" that get bandied about.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (JtwS4)

576 Who's going to protect the Muslim cake makers rights to refuse cakes for gay weddings?

Posted by: WWhiskey at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (y+S7B)

577 Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (V+kmg)


I tend to treat my gay friends the same way I treat my fornicating friends: it's not my job to tell you how to live your life.
Period, full stop.

But don't ask me to cheer you on or celebrate what you do. Similarly, leave me to eat my steak in peace (seems odd I know. I have some people in the various categories that are all "meat is murder.")

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (HDwDg)

578 Homosexuals are no more "evil" for their homosexuality than I am for all of the sins I commit.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:09 PM (kff5f)

THIS.

Last time I checked only God had the power to weigh the depth of sin.
Posted by: Sean
------------------------------

Both true..., but we are admonished by Christ to resist evil, and I do not believe that means only the evil of ourselves.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (l1zOH)

579 Sell your cloak and buy a sword. He wanted men who weren't above sticking a mother Kcufer.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (b4JMJ


Considering how few of them *did* stick "a mother Kcufer" (nice, btw), I think that's a little out of context.

He was referring to previous times he had sent out the disciples (the 72 & the 12) and told them not to take a sword, not to take extra sandals, or a cloak- because God would provide all they needed.

He was saying, "Okay, that special level of protection: it's going away. Go willingly to die in my name- but someone tries to rob you, and it's on."

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (kff5f)

580 Here is a very interesting scenario. Legal scholars, please weigh in:

In some areas -- like most of Nevada outside of Clark County --prostitution is legal, as long as you are registered with the state/county.

So let's say you are a prostitute with all the certifications needed in Nevada. You ply your trade.

But you deem yourself a high-class prostitute. You charge a lot, and are picky about customers.

But here's the thing: You're also a racist prostitute. You only ever agreed to johns who are white.

So there's a convention in town and a bunch of white conventioneers hire you one after the other, and you have sex with them for money. And then, on the recommendation of his fellow conventioneers, a black conventioneer tries to hire you -- and you say "No." When he asks why, you say, "I never have sex with black men."

So he sues your for discrimination.

Question: Can the government force you to have sex with someone against your wishes?

If not -- and if you allow to discriminate based on your preferences -- then why wouldn't that same principle apply to all services, including cake-baking?

This example clears out the middle ground and makes the distinction very stark:

Either people can be forced to take physical actions against their will; or they must be allowed to discriminate.

And it has nothing to do with religion, interestingly.

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (K4YiS)

581 The horde has been judged and found guilty. So...now what?
Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (MYCIw)

Well, we DO have all those raptors...hungry, hungry raptors...

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (yRwC8)

582
@567
Oooh, Oooh, I know, I know!
The Christians in the hordeshould remove the beam in their own eyes with weeping and repentance and then reachout in love and tenderness to the lost?
(I do horribly at this, but am working it out)

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (k8xvx)

583 I like how all the non-Christians try to tell Christians which of their beliefs are legitimate.

That's not for you to decide.

I think the Muslim rules against eating pork are dumb. But Muslims don't need to convince me that the rule is legitimate. My opinion is pretty irrelevant.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (ZPrif)

584 I bake a pretty decent cake. You know, if anybody's interested. Just sayin'.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (oKFzc)

585
According to schumer and the Democrats, you have all the religious freedom you want...in the privacy of your own home or church building.

thats not freedom

Posted by: kj at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (lKyWE)

586 Why should I even have to know they're gay?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (XUKZU)


Yup.... its like the lesbian waitress who says she does not get tipped well because... Lesbian...

How the hell would I ever know if you didn't TELL me!!!!


Unless they have somehow decided that now their sexual preference now dictates mannerisms and behaviours....

But does NOT, for Men and Women in society...

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (qh617)

587 Sell your cloak and buy a sword. He wanted men who weren't above sticking a mother Kcufer.
Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (b4JMJ)


---------------------------------------


For the proper time and place, but, yes, this is also true.

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (/HX7u)

588 Man, I really want cake.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (/kI1Q)

I know, right?
Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (mf5HN)


*looks up previous references to cake*

*raises eyebrows*

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (0NdlF)

589 Where is this massive homosexual outcry against forcing bakers to bake them wedding cakes?

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (FQMPG)

590 Yes, and so is lusting after Kate Upton's boobs.

The horde has been judged and found guilty. So...now what?
Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:14 PM (MYCIw)


Well, for starters I'd say that if we're this far gone we might as well go for broke

Release the Upton!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (V+kmg)

591
I don't think I'd eat a cake that was made under threat of litigation. Just saying
Posted by: Cruzinator




The little browns balls? They're -- um -- dragee. Chocolate dragee. Tres chic.

Bon appetit.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (kdS6q)

592
@579
That's what I've always believed on that point

Of course, if I was in a situation where persecution occurred, I would invest in smoke grenades, flashbangs, and sirens, because Jesus also talked about getting out of areas where persecution was coming.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (k8xvx)

593 Posted by: wrg500 at March 31, 2015 05:12 PM (S+el1)

Dear God:

*points wildly*

I DID NOT SAY THAT. I DO NOT THINK THAT. PLEASE TO NOT BE SMITING ME FOR THAT AS OPPOSED TO ALL THE OTHER STUFF.

Fearfully and whatnot, me
Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:13 PM (

I'm thinking right about now that someone's got a lotta 'splainin to do.... Maybe you could try bribery, or Holy Orders.

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (5+mPY)

594 Love the anti-Christian bigots lecturing Christians on how to properly believe in their Sky God.

No, you are doing your stupid religion wrong!!

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (ZPrif)

595
Yes, and so is lusting after Kate Upton's boobs.

The horde has been judged and found guilty. So...now what?
Posted by: Lauren
-----------------------
Objection.
I've never lusted after Kate Upton's anything.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (l1zOH)

596 Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (JtwS4)

Unfortunately the loudest by default represent the silent.

Posted by: Cruzinator at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (sIhFA)

597 You cannot discriminate againts someone based on race because 1) they
have no control over their race and 2) there is no rational argument
that race by itself impacts your (hotel, business, society) in any way
other than aesthetics.


Well, yes and no. If you're a hotel owner in, let's say, VA Beach, you might argue that your business is negatively affected when large numbers of blacks come to town for some celebration. Whites, for good reasons or bad, will tend to avoid those hotels, and the town in general, given the recent history of such celebrations resulting in mayhem and destruction. Is that hotel owner allowed to exclude blacks?

It really does make your head spin.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (LAe3v)

598 Release the Upton!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (V+kmg)



Perhaps hell is not entirely unlike Tantalus's version, in which case with all the "see but not touch Kate Upton" are we not already there?

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (HDwDg)

599 >>If not for that I would not care about the matter. I simply don't wish to live in a country dedicated to evil.

How do you feel about Uganda cause your choices are getting slimmer by the day.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (g1DWB)

600 *looks up previous references to cake*


Hey, if it's chocolate I don't care what it looks like.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (/kI1Q)

601 Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (K4YiS)

Depends if you're a progressive statist or not.

To the statist, of course the government can (implicity) put a gun to your head and force you to bang a black john.

To those of us who believe in freedom, then no. But we're in the minority here, so the answer is yes.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (AkOaV)

602 I've never lusted after Kate Upton's anything.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (l1zOH)

I have.

Posted by: Jimmah Carter at March 31, 2015 05:20 PM (yRwC8)

603 Question: Can the government force you to have sex with someone against your wishes?


Twenty years of marriage tells me the answer is "No".

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:20 PM (oKFzc)

604 According to schumer and the Democrats, you have all the religious freedom you want...in the privacy of your own home or church building.
--
And as long as you don't tweet or Facebook about your icky Sky God. Or talk about within earshot of the Holy, Sacred Eardrums.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 05:20 PM (ZPrif)

605 Well, for starters I'd say that if we're this far gone we might as well go for broke

Release the Upton!
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (V+kmg)


Pour tu, mon ami.


http://bit.ly/1DoqAYG

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:20 PM (mf5HN)

606 Man, I really want cake.
_____________________

LOL. I was just thinking, I could really go for a piece of cake right now.

(But no dick-shaped cakes, please).

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (lmdHn)

607
All I know is that I was just minding my own business and then, as usual, the homosexuals and their Leftist masters decided to act out to impose their will upon me.

This makes me a hater.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (iv3H6)

608
#537 What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake

for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel?

I'm actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.


None. And that is the problem - by using the power of the state to enforce beliefs, we open up the can of worms. What can and should determine behavior is social acceptance.

Ergo, discrimination should be frowned at. Picketed if egregious. BUT THE STATE HAS NO ROLE. It should not be there to "enforce" rules and norms that are solely the province of civilsociety. Because once that happens, then the state controls the very structure of our civil society. We are then voting on whether one belief is "hate" and must be savagely oppressed by thestate, and another belief is "good" and must be savagely encouraged by the state.

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (/EkKm)

609
The essence of capitalism is that both parties to a transaction voluntarily enter into the transaction. It's a lot like freedom.
Posted by: The Great White Snark
..............................
Phew. You mean I don't have to buy a gay wedding cake? Cuz that might raise an eyebrow with my fiance. She want's one with an elephant-in-heat topper.

Posted by: wth at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (wAQA5)

610 Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (LAe3v)

The civil rights act of 1964 and subsequent supreme court case of heart of atlanta motel say that you MUST serve any customer regardless of race, gender (and later they added more criteria).

So, no, a VA Beach hotel owner could not refuse service to a black person for any reason, and if he does the onus is on him to prove that he was not discriminating based on race, but some other reason (for example, if the hotel has a policy to only rent to people over 25 or whatever)

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (AkOaV)

611 (But no dick-shaped cakes, please).

But it's chocolate!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (0NdlF)

612 Pour tu, mon ami.


http://bit.ly/1DoqAYG
Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:20 PM (mf5HN)


*ahem*

I said "Release"

That Upton still looks fairly - how do I put this - restrained.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (V+kmg)

613 Pour tu, mon ami.

Pour tois.

I stuck around long enough to be a dick about case.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (JtwS4)

614 The thing is, it's easy to denounce a sin that you don't struggle with.

It's like a naturally thin person ranting about how easy it is to avoid getting fat.

Much harder to recognize that we are all wretched sinners.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (MYCIw)

615 Giving yourself over to any form of vice is evil.

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (FQMPG)

616 Both true..., but we are admonished by Christ to resist evil, and I do not believe that means only the evil of ourselves.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 05:16 PM (l1zOH)


We were both responding to an earlier comment wherein someone made the blanket statement "Gays are evil."

Considering Bannion and I (he actually has a theology degree- I just love theology) are pretty sure that violates the whole "judge not lest ye be judged" thing... we decided to respond.

And to be clear- yes, homosexual acts are sinful. So are thoughts of lust. And "he who breaks any part of the law is guilty of the whole law" (isn't *that* fun to contemplate?). Ergo- we are all (as Johnathan Edwards once said) "sinners in the hands of an angry God." (okay- He apparently isn't angry- but He certainly has every right to be).

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (kff5f)

617 The civil rights act of 1964 and subsequent supreme court case of heart of atlanta motel say that you MUST serve any customer regardless of race, gender (and later they added more criteria).

Interstate commerce, y'know.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (0NdlF)

618 Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay

So that one time at band camp didn't count?

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (evdj2)

619 Either people can be forced to take physical actions against their will; or they must be allowed to discriminate.



And it has nothing to do with religion, interestingly.

Posted by: zombie


IMO, this is the only position that one can take without relying on the whims of judges. I'm not saying it's the right one, just the only one that provides clear rules.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (LAe3v)

620 Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:19 PM (LAe3v)

Black cab drivers refusing to pick up black fares? Is that discrimination?

Posted by: Cruzinator at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (sIhFA)

621 I'm giving myself over to beer right this minute.


It's evil ... and I love it.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (oKFzc)

622 Pour tois.

I stuck around long enough to be a dick about case.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (JtwS4)


Crappity. And I was so nice to give you an appropriate length part of podcast too!

Also, Bannion, those puppies sure look like they are a half second from freedom.

Posted by: alexthechick - Scariest. Evah. at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (mf5HN)

623 No shirt no shoes no service.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (b4JMJ)

624 So, is c*ck-sucking mandatory yet?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (LA7Cm)

625 (okay- He apparently isn't angry- but He certainly has every right to be).

I wouldn't be sure about that.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (0NdlF)

626 614 The thing is, it's easy to denounce a sin that you don't struggle with.

It's like a naturally thin person ranting about how easy it is to avoid getting fat.

Much harder to recognize that we are all wretched sinners.
Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015

Well, I do do it with style....

Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (5+mPY)

627 Posted by: Dr. McCoy at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (/EkKm)

As I said in the last gay cake thread, this is why barry goldwater voted against the civil rights act of 1964, and this is how LBJ sold it to the progressive (racist) democrats.

CRA of 64 FOREVER changed the relationship between businesses and the federal govt in Titles II and VII. The rest of the act was a reiteration of the CRA of 1875 (or whatever) which was passed along party lines (all R's voted for it). The only new stuff in the CRA of 64 was the stuff that allowed progressives in DC to essentially dictate to businesses how they can run their businesses, who they must hire, and who they must serve.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (AkOaV)

628 Jazz Shaw at Hot Air has been writing about the possibility of someone demanding a baker make him a Hitler cake does he have the right to refuse?




Not if it's a gay Hitler cake

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (3UGBQ)

629 I bet a lot of these businesses coming out against the Indiana law have no problem w/Operation Chokepoint.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (TLTHv)

630 "Jesus also talked about getting out of areas where persecution was coming."

Get to da choppah!

Posted by: Jesus at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (noWW6)

631 The left really needs to dial back this pursuit and punishment of "heretics". They're become extreme.

Posted by: The Spanish Inquisition at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (J6suc)

632 And I was so nice to give you an appropriate length part of podcast too!

You were. Caringest givingest. Now I'm really off.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, now half gay at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (JtwS4)

633
I'm thinking right about now that someone's got a lotta 'splainin to do.... Maybe you could try bribery, or Holy Orders.
Posted by: kraken at March 31, 2015 05:18 PM (5+mPY)

We don't judge you.

Posted by: The Spiders at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (s/gWD)

634 We don't believe in Jesus, but you have to celebrate gay marriage cause Jesus said so. Something beam something something mote. You have to do it cuz it's in the Bible, wingnutz!

There's no such thing as sin, but it's a Sin to be judgey, wingerz!

Jesus said everybody is cool except the judgey ones who hate the gays! They're, like, the worst and stuff and also bad Christians and also probably secretly Teh Ghey!

Posted by: Prog Lynch Mob at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (ZPrif)

635 I have to wonder how many other people had a similar path to enlightenment.

Waving hand here. I was in support of gay marriage before the Gaystopo got rolling. No I m so appalled at people who try to get others fired for supporting a traditional view of marriage or issuing death threats or causing people to lose their livelihood that I think the government should be out of the marriage business entirely. Issue everyone a civil union and then if churches wish to perform a gay union there are certainly any number who will. And it's not because I hate gays. I don't feel anything for gays as a group than I do for straights. I tend to think of people as individuals who happen o be gay. I've known several people I grew to like and love before they told me they were gay and my feelings didn't change about them when they told me that. I have gay colleagues, gay friends, gay parishioners. The sponsor of my son for baptism is a gay man but the fascism of the radical gay movement is way too much.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (DXzRD)

636
By the by, I would remind gays of how leftists have traditionally treated gays. That is to say, fascists and communists routinely persecuted and executed them.

You are being used to give the state the power to destroy you.

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (/EkKm)

637

As I said in the last gay cake thread, this is why barry goldwater voted against the civil rights act of 1964, and this is how LBJ sold it to the progressive (racist) democrats.




BINGO....Goldwater was a very wise, principled man.

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (kQfqk)

638 The State is getting around that by forcing
potential jurors to sign a certificate saying they will rule their
verdict solely based on the written law. Any vote contrary to the law as
written is considered false swearing and punishable by 5 years and $5K.



Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 31, 2015 05:01 PM (wlDny)

How can you "Force" a juror to sign such a certificate? Not possible. I am not signing, so dismiss me. My obligation is to report to court, PERIOD.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (0FSuD)

639
@578
"For ourbattle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens" Ephesians 6:12
That is whereyour fury should go, and your wrath should be spent in spiritual warfare. For those arelost and in bondage to the prince of this world, yourjob is to proclaim the Good News, to win souls, to be love,and to be wise as aserpent and as gentle as a dove; in short, to be the hands and feet of Jesus, and to the lost Jesus was as gentle as a lamb. He saved his harsh language and rebukes for the spiritually corrupt, those who knew what was good and didn't do it.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (k8xvx)

640 I bet a lot of these businesses coming out against the Indiana law have no problem w/Operation Chokepoint.


When it was only being applied to porn stars and gamblers, alot of the folks HERE didn't mind it so much.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (oKFzc)

641 Man, I really want cake.
Posted by: HR


I know, right?
Posted by: alexthechick



Shit! I got eggs and milk last night. I'm having cake tonight!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (DXB+X)

642 They say the pendulum swings back and forth. Once it comes unstuck from the far left position it's currently in I hope it swings like a wrecking ball.

Posted by: LGoPs at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (Tqdpu)

643 To these leftist weaklings, their whole frame of reference has to do with being offended at some tenet of their faith. We mistake their forms of communication frequently.

When one asks us our opinion on Global Warming or Climate Change, its not to find out our opinion, its a sonar ping, to see if they get the right response back. Its an Us/Them test, to see if they can feel safe or need to call the rest of the bee hive in for an attack. Its all personal for them, no abstraction, no hypothetical.

If they start a conversation and you point out an inconsistency, it is treated as a personal attack. You may as well have said, "You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny." -they respond like sharks with blood in the water.

Nice accurate description you gave there, Ace. They really are neurotics out for revenge at the first chance they get, towards anyone they see as representing something they don't like. They have issues with law and religion, because these two things tend to present an inflexibility they cannot stand, because they are busy reinforcing themselves with their own circular feeling/opinion based irrational thinking.

Ok, I gotta get back to my dayjob now..

Posted by: Dr. Doomsday at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (W41Dn)

644 or they must be allowed to discriminate.
And it has nothing to do with religion, interestingly.
Posted by: zombie

IMO, this is the only position that one can take without relying on the whims of judges. I'm not saying it's the right one, just the only one that provides clear rules.
Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (LAe3v)


The entirety of the law is discrimination. These actions are legal, these actions are illegal, and these actions are not forbidden by law.

The notion that discrimination is bad and must be eliminated is nonsense - that activity in itself requires discrimination.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (0NdlF)

645 I think the proper response would be the boycotting of cake bakers by those who feel strongly about the question, rather than the childish foot-stamping and whining. But that's just me.

To elevate to a question of law the issue of whether someone wants to bake you a cake or not is childish beyond all description. Oh..., wait..., we're talking ghey Progressives here.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (l1zOH)

646 By the by, I would remind gays of how leftists have traditionally treated gays

Just like with communism, "this time it will be different".

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (W5DcG)

647 Giving yourself over to any form of vice is evil.
Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (FQMPG)


Ken, seriously now, I'm not trying to be a dick, but this is probably going to come out that way....

Is your entire understanding of Christianity reduced to bumper stickers?

Can you not read the Bible in its entirety and then still say to yourself, "Wow, I could spend a lifetime just trying to unpack everything in that single verse"?

Or are you just cocksure you got this whole Christianity thingy down cold?

Oh, and pride is the root of all sin.

There's my bumper sticker.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (V+kmg)

648 I hope it swings like a wrecking ball.

I'm gathering stones.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (evdj2)

649 Posted by: Nip Sip at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (0FSuD)

Plus I thought Jury Nullification was a well established tradition.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (HDwDg)

650 Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (0NdlF)

Right.

And perhaps a lawyer could help me here, but there was another case after Heart of Atlanta and I can't remember the name...

But essentially, it was some BBQ joint in the middle of nowhere in the South that was "whites only" and the Supremes ruled that even though the food, the fuel, the pigs, everything was intrastate commerce, that because the napkins the owner gave out for free were made from paper from another state, the business was engaged in interstate commerce.

Kind of like Filburn and the pretzel logic involved there.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (AkOaV)

651 >>Pour tois.

>>I stuck around long enough to be a dick about case.

toi.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (g1DWB)

652 @630 Jesus

"Get to da choppah!"
You speak with an Austrian dialect. Do you speak German as well?

Posted by: JEF at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (fMSs7)

653 Want to have fun with a certain subset of "Christians?" Point out that
according to Jesus, we're all murderers and adulterers. Then watch them
tie themselves in knots explaining how a)no that's not what he meant
and b)but I'm saved so it doesn't apply to me anyway.


Or point out to a supersecessionist that the parable of the rich man's feast is saying that we're all the riff raff that only got in because he didn't want to party alone.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (ZbV+0)

654 623 No shirt no shoes no service.


Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (b4JMJ)


We find this discriminatory, and you will soon be seeing our Lawyer

Posted by: South Beach Nudist Coalition at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (qh617)

655 >>Man, I really want cake.

Posted by: HR




>>I know, right?

Posted by: alexthechick


You can have a carrot or broccoli. And you will like it.

Posted by: Michelle Obama at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (TLTHv)

656 Dom Deluise,

https://www.youtube.com/ watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ws5NNJIQ4w4

Posted by: DaveA at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (DL2i+)

657 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (HDwDg)

It comes from common law, but its kind of... frowned upon here in the US.

For example, the judge cannot instruct the jury about nullification. The jury kind of just has to know they have the option to nullify on their own.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (AkOaV)

658 We were both responding to an earlier comment wherein someone made the blanket statement "Gays are evil."
-------------
Compare and contrast, if you will, with the commonly stated "Islam is an evil death cult."

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (NUqwG)

659
@614
Yep, I've never had a problem with alcoholism. I've had other problems, but not that. I keep reminding myself that many men my age don't have the sin issues I have.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (k8xvx)

660 Man, now I want carrot cake.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (0NdlF)

661 I think the Muslim rules against eating pork are dumb. But Muslims don't need to convince me that the rule is legitimate. My opinion is pretty irrelevant.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 05:17 PM (ZPrif)

Moar bacon for the rest of us! And you guys get my allotted lifetime quota of alcohol, I happily give it to you.

I'm extremely live and let live when it comes to social, religious, political matters. I believe what I want, respect others who feel differently. The problem I have with the left is they refuse this basic courtesy of society, and try to tell people what they should want. And if telling them is not enough, enforce it.

Winning friends and influencing people? Why when coercing via legislation is soooo much easier!

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (yRwC8)

662 Man, I really want cake.
_____________________

LOL. I was just thinking, I could really go for a piece of cake right now.

(But no dick-shaped cakes, please).
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at March 31, 2015 05:21 PM (lmdHn)
----
If I knew you were comin'
I'd've baked a cake,
baked a cake,
baked a cake....

Posted by: All Hail Eris at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (KH1sk)

663 Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (V+kmg)

I'm going with Moby honestly. Any time trolls quote back aphorisms, I tend to think they are just Mobys.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (HDwDg)

664 Fenelon Spoke.....you feel that way because you aren't steeped in identity politics, where it doesn't matter WHO you are so much as it matters WHAT you are. I've had gay co-workers who are wonderful people. I've had gay co-workers who were miserable cunts. Same thing for black people, Mexicans, Chinese, you name it. You take a man at his own merits, no more, no less.

Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (kQfqk)

665 642 They say the pendulum swings back and forth. Once it comes unstuck from the far left position it's currently in I hope it swings like a wrecking ball.
-----------------------
I was hoping for a terrible swift sword.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (oDCMR)

666 Let's just see how the Indiana "boycott" goes... It went so well against chick-filet and Hobby lobby...

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (Bn6aD)

667 I wouldn't be sure about that.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:24 PM (0NdlF)


Well, I'm not seeing an fire and brimstone, or hearing any trumpets yet. So if He's angry, He's holding it in well.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (kff5f)

668 Man, now I want carrot cake.

With cream cheese frosting.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (/kI1Q)

669 American is a multicultural empire. We don't agree on anything any more.

Multicultural empires are only ever held together by force.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (ZPrif)

670 The State is getting around that by forcing potential jurors to sign a certificate saying they will rule their verdict solely based on the written law. Any vote contrary to the law as written is considered false swearing and punishable by 5 years and $5K.

Wow, what an easy out of jury duty.
Seriously though, this could not possibly withstand legal challenge in higher court, could it?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (39g3+)

671
@658
.....I've never said that and I'd caveat by saying that I believe that the spirit of Islam is one of the powers and principalities, but that individual Muslims are loved by God even if He hates what they do, and that it's not my job to say that they are evil.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (k8xvx)

672 With cream cheese frosting.


Dammit.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (evdj2)

673 Buy penis shaped cake pan futures.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (b4JMJ)

674 654 623 No shirt no shoes no service.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:23 PM (b4JMJ)

You gonna wan't to rethink the no shoes thing. Just saying.

Posted by: The Spiders at March 31, 2015 05:30 PM (s/gWD)

675 Cake Girl wants to deliver something to you

http://tinyurl.com/ovpnp5h

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:30 PM (39g3+)

676 Man, now I want carrot cake.

With cream cheese frosting.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (/kI1Q)


I make one hell of a spiced carrot cake...with cream cheese frosting.

Which I would be happy to make for one HR, should she make a drive to the next MoMee

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:30 PM (V+kmg)

677 Wouldn't that be duress? Jury nullification is a constitutional right isn't it?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:31 PM (b4JMJ)

678
@667
Exactly
Ezekiel 33:11
Psalm 145:8
2 Peter 3:9

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:31 PM (k8xvx)

679 the Left is trash; dishonest, anti-American, totalitarian.

the only way for this country to succeed is to drive them out of the government, out of education, and out of media. because they control these areas, it is illegal to drive them out of these areas.

now where does that leave you?

Posted by: Grad School Fool at March 31, 2015 05:31 PM (A9KzJ)

680 Jesus and Chuck Norris are only people that are sinless. Actually Chuck Norris does sin but immediately has it expunged from his record.

Posted by: Cruzinator at March 31, 2015 05:31 PM (sIhFA)

681 655 >>Man, I really want cake.

Posted by: HR




>>I know, right?

Posted by: alexthechick


You can have a carrot or broccoli. And you will like it.


Posted by: Michelle Obama at March 31, 2015 05:27 PM (TLTHv)


Cake or Death!

Posted by: Gay Lobby! at March 31, 2015 05:31 PM (qh617)

682 624 So, is c*ck-sucking mandatory yet?
Posted by: Ricardo Kill


Wait -- you haven't yet sucked your federally mandated cock yet today?

Google has already forwarded your IP and Zip+4 to the Suede Denim Secret Police. Expect a knock on your door in 3, 2, 1....

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 05:31 PM (K4YiS)

683 I am actually at this very moment baking a cake. It is not, alas, weenis-shaped.

For your edification and gastronomic amusement, I give you this stocking stuffer:

http://tinyurl.com/krd6uv5

Posted by: All Hail Eris at March 31, 2015 05:32 PM (KH1sk)

684 I think I have everything needed to make a carrot cake. Hmm...

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:32 PM (MYCIw)

685 671
@658
.....I've never said that
Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (k8xvx)
--------
But it is, in fact, often said on this blog.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 05:32 PM (NUqwG)

686 "American is a multicultural empire. We don't agree on anything any more. Multicultural empires are only ever held together by force."

And pretty spectacular stuff tends to happen when the imperial compulsion is removed.

Spectacular, and unpleasant.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2015 05:32 PM (noWW6)

687 I'm not sure its ever been defined as a constitutional right but it has long, long been held as one of the highest duties of a jury in cases of injustice. Its part of the foundation of the United States, with several key court decisions leading up to the revolution. I simply cannot imagine a law like that being signed let alone surviving even the slightest challenge in court.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:32 PM (39g3+)

688 Posted by: radar at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (kQfqk)

Yep. And he was 100% right about what the CRA of 64 would lead to. But the GOPe and the D's and the D's in the media and those who write history books have spent the last 70 years excoriating him as a racist.

Nevermind that he took a very principled view, and was seen as one of the biggest believers in "equality before the law" (which is what the civil rights movement claimed to be about) and voted for many measures to end government sanctioned discrimination.

And never mind that it was Democrats including Robert Byrd who staged the (to this day) longest filibuster in the Senates history because they felt that there was no way that blacks should be integrated in to "white society."

Nope, Goldwater was the racist and the Democrats were the saviors of blacks.

That's some Orwell shit right there.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:32 PM (AkOaV)

689 Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:30 PM (V+kmg)

When did y'all set that up for again? I'm sending my brother out that direction and he can drink this time.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:33 PM (HDwDg)

690 Not if it's a gay Hitler cake
Posted by: TheQuietMan


OK

Gay Hitler cakes for everyone!

Posted by: zombie at March 31, 2015 05:33 PM (K4YiS)

691
@685
I think AllenG doesn't mean all Muslims are evil,butthat the ideology is evil and encourages people to dothings thatare evil.(Allen, don't want to speak for you, but that's my interpretation)

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:33 PM (k8xvx)

692 Simply brilliant Ace.

Posted by: gwelf at March 31, 2015 05:33 PM (TJ8HB)

693 Spectacular, and unpleasant.

I seriously recommend cultivating your local police and sheriffs. Ride-alongs, Auxillary (if you are able), police charities etc.

Posted by: toby928(C) at March 31, 2015 05:34 PM (evdj2)

694 Posted by: Grad School Fool at March 31, 2015 05:31 PM (A9KzJ)

BOHICA, my friend. BOHICA.

Nothing you can do about it but say "thank you sir, may I have another?"

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:34 PM (AkOaV)

695 When did y'all set that up for again? I'm sending my brother out that direction and he can drink this time.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:33 PM (HDwDg)


I JUST got confirmation on a venue today. So it's 19 June

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:34 PM (V+kmg)

696 I JUST got confirmation on a venue today. So it's 19 June.


I wish they'd schedule one of my start-ups near one of these.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 31, 2015 05:35 PM (oKFzc)

697 I would LOVE to hear Eddie Izzard revisit...

Cake or Death....

Because its not longer the Anglican Church...

Now its the Battle Cry of the Gay Mafia...

Posted by: BB Wolf at March 31, 2015 05:35 PM (qh617)

698 I was going to post, "This is the best thing you've ever written," but I realized how judgmental that was; how dare I presume to rate your entire opus?
Instead: This is my favorite thing I've read of yours.
Words matter.

Posted by: gpddessoftheclassroom at March 31, 2015 05:35 PM (14baQ)

699 Or point out to a supersecessionist that the parable of the rich man's feast is saying that we're all the riff raff that only got in because he didn't want to party alone.

That's fun.

Though if "supersecssion" is the idea that the Law no longer applies... I am one. Because if the law applies, Christians are screwed. But if the Law (any part of it) does *not* apply (at least: as the Law itself), then *none* of the Law applies.

That is: if the Law of Moses is still in effect, then I'm still supposed to be sacrificing lambs, and doves, and goats. Also- keeping the Sabbath. And something about not being in town for a full day after I ejaculate.

If *any* of those things don't apply, then the Law of Moses does not apply. It has been superseded by the Covenant of the Cross- which has 3 Commandments: Love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, and with all your strength. Love your [enemy] as yourself. Love each other as Christ loved us.

Now, it is true that if you're keeping those 3 commandments, then you're following the 9 Commandments anyway (most Christians don't officially observe the Sabbath, though we do normally take a day of rest). But your success or failure at following them in any given instance is not the determining factor in your salvation or damnation, but Christ's blood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:35 PM (kff5f)

700 Well, I'm not seeing an fire and brimstone, or hearing any trumpets yet. So if He's angry, He's holding it in well.

God's day of wrath is coming; it is stored, not misplaced or lost. And it is not that we personally deserve none, but ours is satisfied in our savior.

That, and I think the SCOAMF is divine judgement.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (0NdlF)

701 Police are easy to make friends with. I think they're surprised whenever someone is genuinely friendly and kind, given the bitter hatred they're faced with so often on the job.

Cops need to reach out more though. We need more cops trying to do good deeds and nice stuff in the community, delivering Christmas presents to poor houses, showing off the cop car, being in schools as a friendly presence, etc. The PR side of police work seems to have been the first budget cut so they could buy a tank and all those cool military surplus guns.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (39g3+)

702 Islam is an organized belief system hellbent on destroying the world.

"the gays" are...people. While there is a SJW agenda being fought on their behalf, that does not imply that any given gay individual holds those views. They are no more or less "evil" than any other individual.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (MYCIw)

703 "Not to say that the left won't compel me to buy into theirs- - but why do you think I should be agreeable to being made to buy into yours? "

You have being dishonest with what I said in all your answers.

There isn't a single post of mine where I use the bible or any religion to express my disgust with all things ghey related.

So if you oppose gheys (even as single persons) it is not because you are religious.

During the 80s, when I was a teenager and I couldn't give a damn about the church and the bible (or ANY other religion) I have heard on TV some late night TV shows where some homo activists laid out their plans. Those were the times where marriage was considered burgeoise and so passe and for those pesky hetero breeders. What set me off was the tone and the disgust in which they talked about the traditional family (mother+father and eventual children) because they deemed themselves superior to this caveman structure.

Again, you do not need to be religious to regard the family as one of the cornerstone of humanity. Even if you do not have a loving and strong family or you have problems with relatives or parents you cannot deny that when it works, it works very well.

So that changed my mindset entirely. Before, as a young misguided teenager that liked music (therefore some ghey musician of the time) I thought they should not be mocked. But that was it. Far from my mind that one day they will demand acceptance or demolish natural terms as mother and father.

So as you can see NO holy book shaped my opinion of gheys and no priest told me what to think of homosexuality.

Turned out that 30 years later, they have enacted fascism full force in every realm of life, so it was best to be CAUTIOUS to endorse them or even to be neutral.

Your neutrality brought no good. We always claim HERE that the left always manages to advance while the conservatives are always on the retreat.

This alone should have guaranteed you that even by endorsing the opponents of gheys, nothing bad would have happened to them and you would not have been forced to accept any religion.

I repeat once again NATURE ABHORS VACUUMS, what is not there, it will be eventually filled by something nastier and uncontrollable.

There are some things where being neutral is as damaging as staying on the wrong side.

I have many friends from eastern Europe and they are still mostly atheists or they marginally say they are Christian but a very watered down version of Christianity. Look at the statistics of Hungary or Ukraine.

But they do not cave in to this homofascism bullshit because (I like to think) they remember what it was like to stay under totalitarian rule and they can see that this whole ghey stuff is not solely being able to put Adam's penis in Steven's butt.

The fact that in several countries the terms mother and father have been abolished not to hurt gheys sensibility (we are talking about 99.98% against 0.02%) just makes my blood boil.

The terms mother and father are nature given, they are even more important names than 'marriage'. But we have capitulated. Why? Even a kitty is left with his mother for at least 3-4 months and then sold or gave away. Yet, we are letting homos grow children without a mother like it is 200% normal.

And they even cannibalize their own for not following the manifesto 100%. Do you want to allow more power to such people? where do you have evidence that the other side would abuse power in the same way?

remember that conservatives have always powerful watchdogs, media, holliwood, MSM, academia. The left is free of any limitation.

Posted by: fromabroad at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (rnV3B)

704 Sean,

Your the one apparently stating your understanding of the Bible is superior.

Is a man laying with man as with a woman an abomination?

Is there a such thing as sin? Is it possible for people to give themselves over to sin? Aren't people who give themselves by definition evil?

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (FQMPG)

705 Only 20 more shopping days until Saint Schickelgrubber's Day.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (b4JMJ)

706 631
The left really needs to dial back this pursuit and punishment of "heretics". They're become extreme.

Posted by: The Spanish Inquisition


Wow, that's totally unexpected.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (LAe3v)

707 691
@685
I think AllenG doesn't mean all Muslims are evil,butthat the ideology is evil and encourages people to dothings thatare evil.(Allen, don't want to speak for you, but that's my interpretation)
Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:33 PM (k8xvx)
------
My point was more that there are negative, blanket statements made about various groups here all the time. They generally do not result in attacks on the person making them. Perhaps some negative, blanket statements are more 'sinful' than others.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (NUqwG)

708 I JUST got confirmation on a venue today. So it's 19 June

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:34 PM (V+kmg)



Hmmmm... I think he's out there the month of july. Honestly I forget. He's got a gig with the Examiner this time around.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (HDwDg)

709 Let's just see how the Indiana "boycott" goes... It went so well against chick-filet and Hobby lobby...


Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at March 31, 2015 05:28 PM (Bn6aD)



When the company/person cave into the left they lose no matter how much they try to appease them. When the company/person tells the SJWs to f off the SJWs will eventually go away. More people need to tell the SJWs to f off and the world will be a better place

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (3UGBQ)

710 "As they have hated me, so shall ye be hated"

Posted by: Thor's feather duster at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (JgC5a)

711 Well, I'm not seeing an fire and brimstone, or hearing any trumpets yet. So if He's angry, He's holding it in well.

God is incredibly patient and slow to anger. A lot more patient than I'd be in His place. A lot more patient than we deserve.

But sometimes Gods judgement comes in the form of giving us what we want...

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (39g3+)

712 "The State is getting around that by forcing potential jurors to sign a certificate saying they will rule their verdict solely based on the written law."

Just wondering here about precisely how short the distance is from this, to having the State decree to jurors that they shall vote solely to convict or acquit as the prosecution instructs, on pain of imprisonment.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (noWW6)

713 Is licentiousness sinful? Are homosexual acts a violation of chastity...?



Posted by: Ken



*****


You've been hanging around with GI Joe again, haven't you?

Posted by: Barbie at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (NeFrd)

714 Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2015 05:08 PM (noWW6)

Oh, it wasn't that he held that view in 2014. It's that CA passed a law in 2008ish that was retroactive that made it public information who had donated to any referendum ballot initiative.

And Eich (or whatever his name was) had donated like $1,000 back in 2006 or so. Which was private when he donated it.

So fast forward to 2014 and someone looked it up and evidently found it, and the guy was fired because Mozilla tells us that they're so tolerant that they can't tolerate dissenting opinions.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (AkOaV)

715 Though if "supersecssion" is the idea that the Law no longer applies... I am one.

I think it is the idea that the Christian church replaces Israel as God's chosen people.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (0NdlF)

716 What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake for a
gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel? I'm
actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.




Lets take this to the place nobody is talking about: why should you legally be allowed to say no to the neighbor who wants to sodomize your 8 year old son?

Posted by: An Observation at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (Azj5O)

717 "do they have any beliefs which are open to question without inviting their typical full-spectrum punishment regime, from group coordinated stigmatization to pursuit in the courts?"

No. All beliefs held by the leftist collective are to be enforced by courts, police, and when necessary, gulags and State-of-the-art disposal facilities.

Posted by: Justin Travis at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (R9+DR)

718 "
"the gays" are...people. While there is a SJW agenda being fought on their behalf, that does not imply that any given gay individual holds those views. They are no more or less "evil" than any other individual."

moderate ghey = moderate muslim.

call me up when you see one trying to stop the fascists in their midst. So far, not a peep.

Posted by: fromabroad at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (rnV3B)

719 I've got an interesting juror story. About fifteen years ago, a prosperous businessman's wife and young daughter went missing. After an exhaustive search, the wife's body was found and certain evidence led law enforcement to believe that he had killed her. He was tried and convicted and sentenced to life. Fast forward to last November. A local official was elected to a local position but before he could assume office he had occasion to beat up his girlfriend. He didn't feel a little thing like that should interfere with his quest for political power. Others disagreed including one of the jurors on the murder case. At public demonstrations and whatnot she described her own victimization by domestic violence and demand that he resign. He eventually did but meanwhile the defense attorneys on the murder case remembered that she had denied being the victim of any domestic violence when she was questioned as a juror. Long story short, murderer gets another bite at the apple and she is facing contempt charges.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (XUKZU)

720 So is the Cornhole Mafia gonna boycott, you know corn?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (b4JMJ)

721 So, we've got a legal system that works against religious bakers, but not one that works against corrupt politicians.

Yeah. That's good.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (MMC8r)

722 668 Man, now I want carrot cake.
--------

With cream cheese frosting.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:29 PM (/kI1Q)


But just the tip.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:39 PM (0NdlF)

723 683
I am actually at this very moment baking a cake. It is not, alas, weenis-shaped.


Trivia quiz: what popular TV character had to prepare a Weenus (sp?)

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:39 PM (LAe3v)

724 Pence was dumb to sign this right before Final Four was held in Indiana. That's the hook that made it go viral. That's the hook that had all the sports talkers weighing and famous athletes.

Arkansas just passed an RFRA -- media and SJW won't be able to whip up a lynch mob.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 31, 2015 05:39 PM (ZPrif)

725 Your the one apparently stating your understanding of the Bible is superior.
Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:36 PM (FQMPG)


No, I've done no such thing.

I'm merely the one pointing out that you're not looking at the whole Bible in context.

You just don't happen to like that I'm pointing that out. Blessed be the cherry pickers for they will remain ignorant.

And...as to your other questions, I've already answered in the affirmative. I just don't think it gives me license to hate people.

You know, like you do.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:39 PM (V+kmg)

726 I would LOVE to hear Eddie Izzard revisit...
Cake or Death....
Because its not longer the Anglican Church...
Now its the Battle Cry of the Gay Mafia...
Posted by: BB Wolf at March 31, 2015 05:35 PM (qh617)

Holy ghoooooost, holy ghooooooost...

Holy ghost, this is not an episode of Scooby Doo!

Classic.

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2015 05:39 PM (yRwC8)

727 "call me up when you see one trying to stop the fascists in their midst. So far, not a peep."

Even our dear, oft misguided Gabe defended the law.

I'd hate to be judged for what feminists claim to be doing "for women".

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2015 05:40 PM (MYCIw)

728 Christianity threatens the Left's social fabric in a way that Islam, for example, does *not*. That's the nub of the issue.

Posted by: Bigby's Ring Finger at March 31, 2015 04:12 PM (3ZtZW)



Well Islam is totally compatible with the gay/trans/undecided agenda. If you think that getting stoned to death or thrown off a building is pro-gay/trans/undecided

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 31, 2015 05:40 PM (3UGBQ)

729 "The PR side of police work seems to have been the first budget cut so they could buy a tank and all those cool military surplus guns."

The police around here all now have surplus MRAPs painted in their departmental livery, and the *only* thing those vehicles do is "community outreach" events where school kids clamber over them and sit in the seats.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2015 05:40 PM (noWW6)

730 Aren't people who give themselves by definition evil?

No. Now go fix your theology, or take off your mask.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 05:40 PM (0NdlF)

731 God is incredibly patient and slow to anger. A lot more patient than I'd be in His place. A lot more patient than we deserve.

But sometimes Gods judgement comes in the form of giving us what we want...
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (39g3+)


THIS.

All of this.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:40 PM (V+kmg)

732
@707

I take your point, RioBravo. I find them actually equally troubling, considering we're supposed to "love our enemies". It is harder to do with radical Islam since it's in the news so often, while a number of us have gay friends or acquaintancebut that probably makes it even more imperative to love them.
Honestly, I always squirm a bit with some of the comments about glass and the Middle East because I have acquaintances who are Muslims. Not particularly devout ones, but Muslims nonetheless.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:41 PM (k8xvx)

733 695
When did y'all set that up for again? I'm sending my brother out that direction and he can drink this time.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at March 31, 2015 05:33 PM (HDwDg)



I JUST got confirmation on a venue today. So it's 19 June


Just how many venues can there be that are pants optional?

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:41 PM (LAe3v)

734 You've been hanging around with GI Joe again, haven't you?
Posted by: Barbie at March 31, 2015 05:37 PM (NeFrd)


Well-played, sir.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:42 PM (V+kmg)

735 Is there a such thing as sin? Is it possible for people to give themselves over to sin? Aren't people who give themselves by definition evil?

According to Romans, no more so than the rest of us. If you read Romans chapter 1, you'll see Paul gives a list of sins, each one leading to worse sin in a cascading sequence of corruption and evil. And its easy to find ourselves nodding along and thinking "yeah, yeah, those evil people!" until we get to this part in verse 29:

They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents

That's after homosexuality, murder, and all the other stuff we easily identify as sin. He's saying this stuff is WORSE.

We're all sinners. We're all "evil" the way you're putting it. We all deserve hell. We're all saved only by the grace of God from our justly-deserved fate. The more we read the Bible and the closer we get to God, the more we see our own sin and misery and the more we need Christ.

Can I condemn sin? Sure. Its wrong. But I can't claim to be any better than they are. I can only say they aren't as good as God requires.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:42 PM (39g3+)

736
Only 20 more shopping days until Saint Schickelgrubber's Day.
Posted by: Boss Moss




Oh look! Heinrich Himmler came out of the Fuhrerbunker and saw his shadow.

Six more weeks of Winter.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 31, 2015 05:42 PM (kdS6q)

737 The police around here all now have surplus MRAPs painted in their departmental livery, and the *only* thing those vehicles do is "community outreach" events where school kids clamber over them and sit in the seats.
Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2015 05:40 PM (noWW6)
---------
I guess it is much cheaper than taking a helicopter which can be better utilized as well. Win - win!

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 05:42 PM (NUqwG)

738 "Jesus also talked about getting out of areas where persecution was coming."

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Posted by: Jesus at March 31, 2015 05:42 PM (noWW6)

739 Just how many venues can there be that are pants optional?
Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:41 PM (LAe3v)


Six in the DMV, to be precise.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (V+kmg)

740 Christianity is far more of an obstacle to taking over Western Civilization than Islam is.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (MMC8r)

741 And let me add, that there were some people I've known who were quite obviously gay and it didn't make me like them less because of that. I can't really say whether I want someone as a friend or not until I know them. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, except no, I don't think want to be friends with some of the gay men who are having public sex cats at the Gay Pride Fair in SF (I wouldn't want to be friends with straight people having public sex acts either) but then they wouldn't want to be friends with me either. :^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (DXzRD)

742 Posted by: An Observation at March 31, 2015 05:38 PM (Azj5O)

Well, an 8 year old has yet to reach the age of majority, so is not yet old enough to consent to anything, much less sexual contact with an adult.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (AkOaV)

743 "Lets take this to the place nobody is talking about: why should you legally be allowed to say no to the neighbor who wants to sodomize your 8 year old son?"


Indeed.

Posted by: H. Reid at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (LA7Cm)

744
@738

Yeaaah....no, won't find that anywhere in Scripture until the whole earth ends in fire.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (k8xvx)

745 A federal judged ruled in 2012 that pharmacists with conscientious objections to providing the Morning After pill cannot be forced to do so against their will (Storman Inc vs Selecky et al. And suck it, former WA Gov Christine Gregoire)
I dont see how being forced to take part in gay weddings is any different. And am worried that somehow those pharmacists will see their rights again challenged or taken away in the coming years.

Posted by: Rex B at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (2cXor)

746 Can I condemn sin? Sure. Its wrong. But I can't claim to be any
better than they are. I can only say they aren't as good as God
requires.


If eating paste is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Posted by: Joe Biden at March 31, 2015 05:44 PM (LAe3v)

747 @740
Yup.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:44 PM (k8xvx)

748
Well, I'm not seeing an fire and brimstone, or hearing any trumpets yet. So if He's angry, He's holding it in well.


The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are unavailable for comment.



Posted by: An Observation at March 31, 2015 05:44 PM (Azj5O)

749 Trivia quiz: what popular TV character had to prepare a Weenus (sp?)

Pee-Wee Herman?

Posted by: OregonMuse at March 31, 2015 05:44 PM (I8YZX)

750 I think AllenG doesn't mean all Muslims are evil,butthat the ideology is evil and encourages people to dothings thatare evil.(Allen, don't want to speak for you, but that's my interpretation)

Yes. I say, "Mohammedanism is an evil death cult."

Anyone who is Mohammedan by definition supports an evil death cult. But that does not mean they, themselves, are evil. It is a fine distinction, but it's there.

Just as I believe anyone who is "pro-choice" supports an evil abomination. Abortion is evil. Period. Even when it's necessary (see also: fallen world). That does not mean that everyone who is "pro-choice" is necessarily evil. And, indeed, many of them support it through sincerely held (though I believe false) moral judgements.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:44 PM (kff5f)

751 Posted by: Rex B at March 31, 2015 05:43 PM (2cXor)


Won't matter. They'll all be employees of the State.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 05:45 PM (48QDY)

752 He saved his harsh language and rebukes for the spiritually corrupt, those who knew what was good and didn't do it.

That's true, but I wonder (and I'm asking if anyone knows better) whether he crossed paths with anyone who would claim that there was no such thing as sin, or that a given sin wasn't really a sin (aside from the devil).

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 05:45 PM (ZbV+0)

753 http://nh.craigslist.org/zip/4957824688.html

Now to find someone giving away a couple of thousand boxes of tissue.

Posted by: Big Right Forearm at March 31, 2015 05:45 PM (Q819Q)

754 If they can get Mozilla's CEO fired for only supporting gay marriage privately, why can't "we" get them fired for being gay? Against gay marriage is as old as the hills, pro gay marriage, and even pro gay, is fairly new. Why is one belief in public now so holy, but one belief in private is a fireable offense? When will Christians be added to the ever expanding list of people with special rights ... "civil" rights.

The wedding cake is different, but it used to be as long as the person buying could easily find another baker, the public business was not forced to go against clearly religious beliefs. But the intolerant fascist left changed that, as even judges think compromise on the constitution is better than stirring up the intolerant left on race, LGBT "rights", or even calling CO2 a pollutant. Insane.

Those idiots singing the n**r word in private did no real harm, but the networks that spread it globally for a week profited greatly. Was it really "news", or was it profiteering from the N word while also destroying those kids fraternity and personal lives?

We are at war and must use their tactics, but with the full force of the "silent majority". No more mercy ... all intolerance, all the time. heh

Posted by: Illiniwek at March 31, 2015 05:45 PM (QGjci)

755 Though if "supersecssion" is the idea that the Law no longer applies... I am one.


I think it is the idea that the Christian church replaces Israel as God's chosen people.



Pro tip: Check with God first.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 05:45 PM (DXB+X)

756 Pence was dumb to sign this right before Final Four was held in Indiana.

Indiana legislation gets signed in March because the legislature is only in session January through March.

Fun tangent: The Indiana state constitution.
https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/const/
Dig the preamble and the first article.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (/kI1Q)

757 I expect to die in bed

He's actually back in the hospital now.

Posted by: DaveA at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (DL2i+)

758 It's a sad commentary on current American culture that the Bill of Rights would have no chance of being re-ratified.

Posted by: gwelf at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (TJ8HB)

759 Pro tip: Check with God first.
Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 05:45 PM (DXB+X)


Always good advice.

Pro tip: Never assume that God is only talking to you.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (V+kmg)

760 As if by magic:

From a bastion of tolerance -

https://tinyurl.com/pn8rn48

Christian shaming bulletin boards.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (BZAd3)

761 Ye gads, they are debating this over at the US Chess Federation.

Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (nRvEn)

762 The police around here all now have surplus MRAPs painted in their departmental livery, and the *only* thing those vehicles do is "community outreach" events where school kids clamber over them and sit in the seats.

See the cops need to do more of that and less militarization. Because for some communities, the only time they ever see the cops is when they're kicking in doors and arresting daddy at dinner.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:47 PM (39g3+)

763 @642 LGoP

"They say the pendulum swings back and forth. Once it comes unstuck from the far left position it's currently in I hope it swings like a wrecking ball."

The whole "I won" and rule by dictat (Executive Orders) is going to come back and bite the left in the ass. Some political authors were warning the left of this a few years ago. Obama is setting precadent and the new crop of oppostion (Cruz, Walker, etc...) have that figured out.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 31, 2015 05:47 PM (fMSs7)

764 761 Ye gads, they are debating this over at the US Chess Federation.
Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (nRvEn)


No, you may NOT start the game with two queens! I don't give a f*ck that you think that's homophobic, them's the rules, dammit!

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 05:48 PM (2Ojst)

765 It's a sad commentary on current American culture that the Bill of Rights would have no chance of being re-ratified.
Posted by: gwelf at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (TJ8HB)

Well duh, it's in cursive! Nobody uses that old scripty stuff anyway.

Posted by: LIV at March 31, 2015 05:48 PM (yRwC8)

766 "Jesus also talked about getting out of areas where persecution was coming."

We're going to devote our energies to sports and gardening, all the cultural pursuits as far as they're concerned. In fact, we're going to put the goons to sleep. Meanwhile, we dig. Now, even a superficial look at the compound shows us that Huts 104 and 5 are closest to the woods. The first tunnel goes out from 105, directly east under the vorlager, the cooler, and the wire.

Posted by: Jesus at March 31, 2015 05:49 PM (noWW6)

767 "They say the pendulum swings back and forth. Once it comes unstuck from the far left position it's currently in I hope it swings like a wrecking ball."
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 31, 2015 05:47 PM (fMSs7)


Yes, and when that happens, and it always does, I hope I will oppose it on principle.

After my schadenboner subsides, of course.

That should take 4-5 years I would think

Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:49 PM (V+kmg)

768 No, you may NOT start the game with two queens! I don't give a f*ck that you think that's homophobic, them's the rules, dammit!


I lol'd.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 05:49 PM (LWW4k)

769 Just a quick aside, sans snark: this sort of discussion is why I reject the notion that only math is a sign of intelligence. The rules are slippery, and the outcome can change depending on the arguments. Nothing is straightforward, and adaptability to a new set of conditions (aka environment) is a valuable asset, and that is a measure of intelligence.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:49 PM (LAe3v)

770 Confession,

I always thought that lefties were stupid, but I now realize that this way of thinking was a product of my white privilege. Awakening from this defective mode of thinking has allowed me to finally see lefties for what they actually are -

jackasses.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 31, 2015 05:50 PM (BZAd3)

771 I think it is the idea that the Christian church replaces Israel as God's chosen people.

More like... there has only ever been one chosen people and some among Israel were those, and now Christians are, too. As Paul said: not everyone IN Israel was OF Israel. Merely being in the covenant was not enough.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:50 PM (39g3+)

772 " The first tunnel goes out from 105, directly east under the vorlager, the cooler, and the wire. "


Right behind you.

Posted by: Virgil Hilts at March 31, 2015 05:50 PM (LA7Cm)

773 My point was more that there are negative, blanket statements made about various groups here all the time. They generally do not result in attacks on the person making them. Perhaps some negative, blanket statements are more 'sinful' than others.

Not exactly.

My comment about Mohammedanism is about a particular philosophy. And it is a statement of fact about that philosophy. Mohammedanism- according to its own words- is a death cult. According to moralistic "good" and "bad" it is bad (evil).

However, saying "Gays are evil" (however weaselly he wants to be in the aftermath) is a statement about a particular class of people. It would be the same as me saying "people who are pro-choice are evil." I do not say that (though many of them are, but I try to call out particular cases, or small subsets), because I do not believe it to be my place to judge them as people.

Does that make the distinction more clear?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:50 PM (kff5f)

774 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:47 PM (39g3+)

Well, for me the only time I see cops is when they're busting my balls about minor traffic infractions or trying to find drugs on me or whatnot. god forbid I call them though, then they take their sweet fucking time showing up and get all pissy with me for wasting their time over a silly traffic incident report for my insurance company.

I think the whole police mentality needs to shift big time, starting in the police academies. Instead of training them as a para military fighting force seeking out the enemy, they should be trained to, I don't know, just drive around and stop hassling people for bullshit just to get revenue.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (AkOaV)

775 "Even our dear, oft misguided Gabe defended the law.

I'd hate to be judged for what feminists claim to be doing "for women"."


Gabe needs to write something barely conservative once in a while. The contempt he always has on this blog for people against ghey marriage and the fascism is simply ridiculous. We are undermining our own cause by keeping around people like him.

Name me bloggers on the left who openly mock climate change supporters or leftists who wants to ban all guns.

The excuse 'we are morally better than the left' will be our demise, I can remember several people going extinct because they wanted to keep their moral higher ground.

Lastly, you cannot be judged by what feminists do simply because women are 3 billions or so, feminists are really 0.000something%.

The numbers among gheys are very different. They are a few millions and I believe the majority supports the radical agenda, for personal convenience. They might not believe marriage is necessary but stomping on other people makes them feel powerful.

No ghey person stood up for the firing of Brendan eich.

I believe at this point, there are more 'moderate' muslims, than there are 'moderate' gheys.

Posted by: fromabroad at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (rnV3B)

776 Police have identified other Tranny Terrorist.

http://tinyurl.com/pdjjzcc

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (MMC8r)

777 Just a quick aside, sans snark: this sort of discussion is why I reject the notion that only math is a sign of intelligence. The rules are slippery, and the outcome can change depending on the arguments. Nothing is straightforward, and adaptability to a new set of conditions (aka environment) is a valuable asset, and that is a measure of intelligence.
Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 05:49 PM (LAe3v)


No! No! No, dammit!!!!! ONLY mathematicians are teh smaht!!!

Posted by: AmishDude's Understudy at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (V+kmg)

778 "The weakling given power is nothing but vengeance and cruelty."

ISIS proves this rather horribly with the beheadings and other types of executions. When confronted with a serious army they turn tail and run but against those weaker then themselves they turn into monsters.

Posted by: Decaf at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (d1rEo)

779 What is the legal distinction between refusing to provide a cake for a gay wedding and refusing to allow blacks to stay in your hotel? I'm actually looking for a clear explanation here, not trolling.

The 13th/14th/15th amendments were enacted as a result of the Civil War. They were indisputably intended to address racial issues, and the badges/incidents of slavery. They were not catch-all remedies. The prime example is that women did not get the right to vote until the 19th - so obviously the 14th's "equal protection" language was not limitless. Even more obviously, there was no belief that the 14th would strike down state laws against gay marriage and sodomy.

The application of these amendments, as against the states, can reasonably be said to be proper in the context of RACE discrimination. Some people (Rand Paul) take a harder federalist stance, but at least acknowledges it was contemplated at the time of ratification. But nobody, not even the most fevered cranks, can say with a straight face that these amendments should apply to SEX -- let alone state licensure for gay sex (which was criminal for another100 years) -- when they did not even apply to female suffrage.

Posted by: wooga at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (AO98W)

780 Like two year olds the left wants to take the word "no" out of our vocabulary.

Posted by: An Observation at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (Azj5O)

781
@773
Works for me.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (k8xvx)

782 If someone gives themselves over to any sin, they are by definition evil.

That works for any vice.

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:52 PM (FQMPG)

783 Ye gads, they are debating this over at the US Chess Federation. Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (nRvEn)

Amuck time!

Posted by: Kirk and Spock, playing 3D chess without any sexual tension whatsoever at March 31, 2015 05:52 PM (yRwC8)

784 Does that make the distinction more clear?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:50 PM (kff5f)
---------
Sure. Followers of an evil death cult are not necessarily evil people. I see the distinction now.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 05:52 PM (NUqwG)

785 They say the pendulum swings back and forth. Once it
comes unstuck from the far left position it's currently in I hope it
swings like a wrecking ball.


Posted by: LGoPs at March 31, 2015 05:25 PM (Tqdpu)



Seconded. But more like an A-bomb meets Hiroshima

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 31, 2015 05:52 PM (3UGBQ)

786 I think it is the idea that the Christian church replaces Israel as God's chosen people.

Oh.

I can't say I've given that much thought. Though, IIRC, Paul says that Judgement comes first to the Jew and then to the Gentile but that Salvation *also* comes first to the Jew, and then to the Gentile.

So I can't say I'm seeing a whole lot of support for that statement, unless there's some other context I'm missing.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:52 PM (kff5f)

787 His chosen people went through the Caucuses through the pass of Israel and founded Western Europe.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:53 PM (b4JMJ)

788 If they can get Mozilla's CEO fired for only supporting gay marriage privately, why can't "we" get them fired for being gay? Against gay marriage is as old as the hills, pro gay marriage, and even pro gay, is fairly new. Why is one belief in public now so holy, but one belief in private is a fireable offense? When will Christians be added to the ever expanding list of people with special rights ... "civil" rights.

Unfortunately he wasn't fired. There's actually a California law that could have protected him. He resigned. "Voluntarily".

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2015 05:53 PM (9221z)

789
It occurred to me that many homosexuals would praise a law passed that said discrimination against Christians is ok.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 31, 2015 05:53 PM (ODxAs)

790 I think the whole police mentality needs to shift big time, starting in the police academies. Instead of training them as a para military fighting force seeking out the enemy, they should be trained to, I don't know, just drive around and stop hassling people for bullshit just to get revenue.

I don't disagree with the sentiment here, but you know... if you speed and don't obey traffic laws, you gotta expect the man to hassle you. Its kind of their job.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:54 PM (39g3+)

791 Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 31, 2015 05:47 PM (fMSs7)

no, no, no. When a R is president, the left and media will suddenly rediscover the constitution, checks and balances, and the idea of an "imperial executive."

They will say "no, Obama didn't re-write immigration law by fiat, he just, you know, sent a memo. No big deal." and they will re-write history on the fly like they are wont to do.

Also, the GOPe is all about this shit. They're stoked that Obama is taking care of immigration and other stuff without them. They don't have to get their hands dirty. So if a President Jeb DOES use his pen and phone, it will be to return the favor to the dems and take contentious issues off the table for them while allowing them to demagogue.

That's how this works.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:54 PM (AkOaV)

792 Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (MMC8r)

Clearly the NSA security is intolerant.

Posted by: Golfman at March 31, 2015 05:54 PM (48QDY)

793 Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 05:45 PM (DXB+X)

I was wondering just how far that went as well. "New Covenant" I believe in, "replacement theology" I don't.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at March 31, 2015 05:54 PM (GDulk)

794
@778

Which as a statement needs careful consideration.
I think the weaklings you and ace speak of are moral weaklings, people who were already internally rotted through and throughand once they gain physical power they abuse it left and right ala ISIS

On the other hand, giving power to someone with physical weakness but no moral weakness is not necessarily a problem, as the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. The prevalence of firearms in the hands of citizens who may be physically weaker than their attackers would be an example of that.

Otherwise, the obvious conclusion is that no woman or nerd should EVER be given a gun to protect themselves, ever.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Plush Porcupine at March 31, 2015 05:55 PM (k8xvx)

795 The Cainites were not chosen.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2015 05:55 PM (b4JMJ)

796 Like two year olds the left wants to take the word "no" out of our vocabulary.

Not for themselves.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:55 PM (MMC8r)

797 >>Trivia quiz: what popular TV character had to prepare a Weenus (sp?)

Chandler Bing
It was some sort of report.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2015 05:56 PM (TLTHv)

798 Sure. Followers of an evil death cult are not necessarily evil people. I see the distinction now.

Of course they're not. No more than all "Christians" are necessarily going to Heaven. "Not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Many (a significant minority, I think) are Mohammedan simply because they got it from their parents. Others (another minority, I think) honestly believe that Mohammedanism really does preach "peace," and that "jihad" really does mean in internal struggle- not blowing up nonbelievers.

That does not change the fact that, by claiming to be Mohammedan, they are supporting those (who I do believe are in the majority world-wide) who fully embrace the evil death cult.

Misguided != evil.
Ignorant != evil.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:57 PM (kff5f)

799 This NSA shooting is looking more and more like a bad episode of Reno 911. Just needs Nick Swardson on roller skates selling oranges.

Posted by: wooga at March 31, 2015 05:57 PM (AO98W)

800 764 761 Ye gads, they are debating this over at the US Chess Federation.
Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (nRvEn)


No, you may NOT start the game with two queens! I don't give a f*ck that you think that's homophobic, them's the rules, dammit!

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2015 05:48 PM (2Ojst)


Knight jumps Queen!!!!

Everyone jumps Queen!!!!

Posted by: Its good to be the King at March 31, 2015 05:57 PM (qh617)

801 763 @642 LGoP

"They say the pendulum swings back and forth. Once it comes unstuck from the far left position it's currently in I hope it swings like a wrecking ball."

The whole "I won" and rule by dictat (Executive Orders) is going to come back and bite the left in the ass. Some political authors were warning the left of this a few years ago. Obama is setting precadent and the new crop of oppostion (Cruz, Walker, etc...) have that figured out.
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 31, 2015 05:47 PM (fMSs7)


That's a nice fantasy. But unfortunately what we'll probably get is some squishy idiot that wouldn't dare use any of that overreach. Or if we had one willing to the fuck-ups known as the republicans in congress would join with the democrats in fighting against it.

Posted by: Buzzion at March 31, 2015 05:57 PM (z/Ubi)

802 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:54 PM (39g3+)

No, I don't speed.

My last three interactions with police:

3) One of two license plate marker lights were out. It was not dark out, but I had my lights on due to the rain. $112 "faulty equipment" ticket.

2) I was going 45 in a work zone through a different state, following the speed limit. What I didn't know was that in that state (PA), you apparently need to drive with your hazards on if youre traveling under 50 on a highway (which sounds like a made up law to me, but whatever). No ticket there, just a 2 hour drug dog car search in which the cop admitted he just pulled me over due to my out of state plates.

1) Townie cop in VA pulled me over for not counting to 3 at a stop sign. He admitted I stopped, but said i did not stop for LONG ENOUGH. I don't know if he was sitting there with a stop watch or what, but that ended up costing me $125ish.

So... yeah, minor traffic bullshit designed to pull in revenue that has nothing to do with safety. I have a clean driving record, I used to drive professionally.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 05:57 PM (AkOaV)

803 It occurred to me that many homosexuals would praise a law passed that said discrimination against Christians is ok.

Dan Savage would wear out his right arm and a whole tube of hand lotion.

The Cainites were not chosen

Correct, the offspring of Israel were given special position in the Mosaic covenant, but not all of the children of Israel were children of God - not all saved. Some very spectacular instances of God's judgment against them are recorded in the Bible.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 05:58 PM (39g3+)

804 "Well Islam is totally compatible with the gay/trans/undecided agenda. If you think that getting stoned to death or thrown off a building is pro-gay/trans/undecided"

If you look at Iran, they do not execute all gheys. They give them the option to become a woman, I think also paying the sex change operation.

If you think at the latest 'scientific' explanation of homosexuality given by homos themselves, it is an overexposure of female hormones while in utero, that would make you believe that a ghey person is literally half a female. Therefore the Iranian way could be the most generous offer ever!

Posted by: fromabroad at March 31, 2015 05:59 PM (rnV3B)

805 Ye gads, they are debating this over at the US Chess Federation. Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at March 31, 2015 05:46 PM (nRvEn)

Amuck time!
Posted by: Kirk and Spock


Run!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 31, 2015 05:59 PM (LWW4k)

806 Knight jumps Queen!!!!
Everyone jumps Queen!!!!
Posted by: Its good to be the King at March 31, 2015 05:57 PM (qh617)


Unsafe space!

Posted by: Queen, cowering in fear though is most powerful piece on the board at March 31, 2015 05:59 PM (yRwC8)

807 Misguided != evil.
Ignorant != evil.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 05:57 PM (kff5f)
------
Persitent != Consistent

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 06:00 PM (NUqwG)

808 Okay. That was fun.

Time to head home, though.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at March 31, 2015 06:00 PM (kff5f)

809 Ha! Arkansas just passed a similar law today.

Popcorn time.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 06:00 PM (g1DWB)

810 My last three interactions with police:

Its not impossible you have been nailed by cops just trying to fill a quota, or getting someone from out of town (who will never challenge the ticket in court). That happens, for certain.

But those are all situations that cops will 99% of the time issue a warning for, unless the driver is... less than friendly, lets say.

I'm not saying you were a jerk or hostile, maybe they were just filling out their quota (even departments that don't officially have one.... have one). But you know, maybe?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 06:00 PM (39g3+)

811 Police have identified other Tranny Terrorist.

http://tinyurl.com/pdjjzcc
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 05:51 PM (MMC8r)
------------

Just FYI, the scene of their assignation, the Terrace Motel on Route 1, got a scathing 1-star review in Yelp.

Future site of MaryMoMee?

Posted by: All Hail Eris at March 31, 2015 06:00 PM (KH1sk)

812 647 Giving yourself over to any form of vice is evil.
Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (FQMPG)

Ken, seriously now, I'm not trying to be a dick, but this is probably going to come out that way....

Is your entire understanding of Christianity reduced to bumper stickers?

Can you not read the Bible in its entirety and then still say to yourself, "Wow, I could spend a lifetime just trying to unpack everything in that single verse"?

Or are you just cocksure you got this whole Christianity thingy down cold?

Oh, and pride is the root of all sin.

There's my bumper sticker.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2015 05:26 PM (V+kmg)



Sean you do realize that Ken is the dumbass that believes porn and premarital sex didn't exist prior to 1960.

Posted by: Buzzion at March 31, 2015 06:01 PM (z/Ubi)

813 Sean you do realize that Ken is the dumbass that believes porn and premarital sex didn't exist prior to 1960.

Posted by: Buzzion at March 31, 2015 06:01 PM (z/Ubi)


Eutruscan Pottery???

Posted by: Pseudelus to the Head Slave at March 31, 2015 06:03 PM (qh617)

814 797
>>Trivia quiz: what popular TV character had to prepare a Weenus (sp?)

Chandler Bing
It was some sort of report.


Posted by: Lizzy


Correct! Your prize is that you don't have to wear pants at NoVaMoMee3.

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2015 06:03 PM (LAe3v)

815 Giving yourself over to any form of vice is evil.
Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 05:22 PM (FQMPG)


-----------------------------------------


Define vice and then define evil. In your own terms.

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2015 06:04 PM (/HX7u)

816 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 06:00 PM (39g3+)

I'm always polite, but I do record all encounters with the police as is my right.

I know if I suck up to them more maybe I could get out of a ticket. But that has not been my experience. Whenever I see a cop behind me I just assume I'm about to get robbed to buy the cops a new toy for their department.

Now, I've NEVER run in to any of this in my home state (where my car is registered). I've never even been pulled over. But my job takes me out of state a lot and in to a lot of small towns. They see the out of state plates, know I won't fight any ticket and that it's easy money, and... there you go

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 06:04 PM (AkOaV)

817 So, apparently the whole NSA event was an old dude picking up two crossdressers for gay sex at a motel, and while he's in the crapper they steal his SUV, make a wrong turn, panic when they see cops because they have drugs in the car (shocker), and things go to hell.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 06:05 PM (MMC8r)

818 If you favor the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, you cannot support gay marriage.

Ther is no middle ground, no common ground any more.

Posted by: RoyalOil at March 31, 2015 06:06 PM (ZvKdv)

819 Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 06:05 PM (MMC8r)
---
Hey, we've all been there.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at March 31, 2015 06:07 PM (KH1sk)

820 They see the out of state plates, know I won't fight any ticket and that it's easy money, and... there you go
Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 06:04 PM (AkOaV)
--------------
Years ago someone told of a credit card statement where they paid a moving violation fine to the State of Wisconsin. The statement showed "Dept. of Natural Resources". It's just like mining.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 31, 2015 06:07 PM (NUqwG)

821 Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 06:05 PM (MMC8r)

Yeah.

#trannylivesmatter

This is, what, the 3rd time in the last few years where people in and around buildings in the DC area have started firing wildly at cars making a wrong turn?

Where are the protests?

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 06:08 PM (AkOaV)

822 * sniff *

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 31, 2015 06:09 PM (JBzwC)

823 ike two year olds the left wants to take the word "no" out of our vocabulary.



Not for themselves.



Like I said, just like two year olds.

Posted by: An Observation at March 31, 2015 06:09 PM (Azj5O)

824 Eutruscan Pottery???
Posted by: Pseudelus to the Head Slave at March 31, 2015 06:03 PM (qh617)

And don't even get me started on all the boners in Ancient Egypt art...

Posted by: Ancient Egyptian God Min at March 31, 2015 06:10 PM (yRwC8)

825 Though if "supersecssion" is the idea that the Law no longer applies...

lol, I did put too many letters in that.

Now, it is true that if you're keeping those 3 commandments, then you're
following the 9 Commandments anyway (most Christians don't officially
observe the Sabbath, though we do normally take a day of rest). But
your success or failure at following them in any given instance is not
the determining factor in your salvation or damnation, but Christ's
blood.


I agree, Christ made the payment for our sins and our only involvement (as far as salvation goes) is whether we accept it or not (which is why personal acknowledgement of sin is of paramount importance). For the elect, sins matter more for how they count against our treasures stored in heaven (I think in one of the Corinthians, Paul talks about people entering Heaven as through a fire-or as some of my older buddies put it 'backing in') or as a practical matter, interfering with our capacity for good works now.

Posted by: Methos at March 31, 2015 06:10 PM (ZbV+0)

826 "Unfortunately he wasn't fired. There's actually a California law that could have protected him. He resigned. "Voluntarily"."

Good point Iblis ... but still, they "got him" fired by their intolerance and threats of boycott or whatever. Especially since it was his private belief, supported by a majority according to votes on gay marriage, then the Christian right must be equally intolerant and demanding, threatening total boycotts ... or we lose to the 0.01% of histrionic fascists with unhealthy views.

They've chosen the weapons, now we have to play it out... so to speak. The constitution is off the table.

Posted by: Illiniwek at March 31, 2015 06:10 PM (QGjci)

827
Can I refuse to bake that obama a dog?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 31, 2015 06:11 PM (ODxAs)

828 >>This is, what, the 3rd time in the last few years where people in and around buildings in the DC area have started firing wildly at cars making a wrong turn?

They did a tad more than take a wrong turn. They rammed the gate at an NSA/ARMY base and shot a cop. These things will get you killed even in the Beaver Cleaver days.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 06:11 PM (g1DWB)

829 Blogoshere in-roads: Steve Doocy used a screen shot and quote from Gateway Pundit on his piece that opened tonight's Special Report with Arkansas' news.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at March 31, 2015 06:11 PM (GzDYP)

830 Blogoshere in-roads: Steve Doocy used a screen shot and quote from Gateway Pundit on his piece that opened tonight's Special Report with Arkansas' news.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at March 31, 2015 06:11 PM (GzDYP)

831 Posted by: JackStraw at March 31, 2015 06:11 PM (g1DWB)

I don't think they shot a cop...

And I don't know, I remember reading that black women from CT "rammed a security barrier" and tried to kill an SS agent with her car which later turned in to "oh, well, an off duty SS agent actually threw a metal crowd control fence at her car as she was driving away" which is a LITTLE different.

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 06:13 PM (AkOaV)

832 " So, apparently the whole NSA event was an old dude picking up two crossdressers for gay sex at a motel, and while he's in the crapper they steal his SUV, make a wrong turn, panic when they see cops because they have drugs in the car (shocker), and things go to hell. "



So what's the big deal?

Posted by: Eddie Murphy at March 31, 2015 06:14 PM (LA7Cm)

833 >>> They did a tad more than take a wrong turn. They rammed the gate at an NSA/ARMY base and shot a cop. These things will get you killed even in the Beaver Cleaver days.

That would have been one heck of a "Leave it to Beaver" episode.

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2015 06:14 PM (yRwC8)

834 PLEASE TO NOT BE SMITING ME

Will God demand short people climb the stepstool for smiting or just grow longer arms?

Posted by: DaveA at March 31, 2015 06:14 PM (DL2i+)

835 I've been beating this horse for two hours and it's still dead.

Posted by: wth at March 31, 2015 06:16 PM (wAQA5)

836 The April Fool's crap has already started. There's a notice up in the break room that we're going to cut advertising costs and increase visibility by branding the company logo on engineers' foreheads.

At least, I hope it's April Fools.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 06:16 PM (/kI1Q)

837
Heh. Stoaty is 2.6% Neanderthal:

http://sweasel.com/archives/14732

And she is very proud of it, too!

NEANDERTHAL POWER!!!

Posted by: Bruce J. at March 31, 2015 06:17 PM (iQIUe)

838 @767 Sean Bannion

"Yes, and when that happens, and it always does, I hope I will oppose it on principle."

Hope? Hmmm. No, JEF talked about punishing "your" enemies. I am glad he did, and those who support him, as they exposed themselves. They are not loyal countrymen or wayward people of the faith. They are internal enemies.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 31, 2015 06:17 PM (fMSs7)

839 That would have been one heck of a "Leave it to Beaver" episode.

Lawrence Mondello and Theodore Cleaver were booked in Municipal Court today....

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at March 31, 2015 06:17 PM (MMC8r)

840 I've been beating this horse for two hours and it's still dead.
Posted by: with

It's pining for the fjords.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at March 31, 2015 06:17 PM (GuwT9)

841 836 The April Fool's crap has already started. There's a notice up in the break room that we're going to cut advertising costs and increase visibility by branding the company logo on engineers' foreheads.

At least, I hope it's April Fools.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at March 31, 2015 06:16 PM (/kI1Q)


Definitely is. That would require the engineers to go outside.

Posted by: Buzzion at March 31, 2015 06:18 PM (z/Ubi)

842 nood rape, societal collapse

Posted by: mynewhandle at March 31, 2015 06:19 PM (AkOaV)

843 Will God demand short people climb the stepstool for smiting or just grow longer arms?

You gotta move fast to beat the devil
Your arm's too short to box with God
-Cherry Poppin' Daddies, "Drunk Daddy"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 31, 2015 06:20 PM (39g3+)

844 Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tranny.

Posted by: NSA gate guard with a learning disability at March 31, 2015 06:22 PM (NeFrd)

845 Bigots Against Bigotry, Unite!

Posted by: That guy who says "Bigots Against Bigotry, Unite!" at March 31, 2015 06:25 PM (6E2VN)

846 Haven = a place where you are safe or protected from danger, a harbor.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at March 31, 2015 06:26 PM (NeFrd)

847 #844 I lol'ed. Guffawed, to be precise.

Posted by: fly gal at March 31, 2015 06:29 PM (8TdcF)

848 78
If someone used the force of the government to impel me to bake a cake, I'd make sure it would taste far worse than shit.



"You said I had to bake you a cake. Nobody said it had to be delicious"



Posted by: kbdabear at March 31, 2015 04:04 PM (GrXXa)

Actually in one of the Court decision (I think in Oregon) the Judge did order that the cake be "tasty".

Posted by: redbanzai at March 31, 2015 06:34 PM (5DGKy)

849 @801 buzzy

"That's a nice fantasy. But unfortunately what we'll probably get is some squishy idiot that wouldn't dare use any of that overreach"

Power and access has its ways and one call always point out the former leaders indescressions while circumventing "restrictive" laws.

Feel free to elaborate on your own fantasy.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 31, 2015 06:37 PM (fMSs7)

850 More like... there has only ever been one chosen people and some among Israel were those, and now Christians are, too. As Paul said: not everyone IN Israel was OF Israel. Merely being in the covenant was not enough.

My only thought of interest related to the topic is that there are promises in the OT that are for Israel as a people group, and which are not targeted to all Christians.

Ex: Everything linked to obedience to the Law and thus getting to physically possess the land of Israel. We also see aspects of this in Acts where the Jewish Christian leaders decide on the standards the Gentile Christians should follow. They did not abandon their Jewishness; yet their Jewish practice was unessential to being Christian.

Main interest here is in reading Scripture with a consistent and holy view of God. He has not given any temporary commands that expired with Jesus' coming; rather, there are some commands that are not targeted at the (Gentile) Christian.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 31, 2015 06:42 PM (0NdlF)

851 202

Yes, Indiana is the only state of the 20 that doesn't have
a law making gays a protected class,


Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2015 04:19 PM (BbwTO)


Not true... Virginia does not list sexual preference in their anti-discrimination special snowflake groups. I think that is true for most states with RFRA.

Posted by: redbanzai at March 31, 2015 06:55 PM (5DGKy)

852 "One should not be able to hide behind their religion to illegally discriminate."

Fuck.That.Shit.

Discrimination is essential to life. We discriminate between bad and good, up and down, edible and poisonous, and as humans, between right and wrong, and true and false. We judge. We make decisions. We HAVE to.

I don't give a DAMN what the law says. I will do what is right, according to what I know, and that means I will discriminate.

Posted by: despair at March 31, 2015 06:55 PM (J6suc)

853 "The paradox is that even as America has become more tolerant ..."

No paradox at all. People are self pitying, self indulgent, rationalizing assholes. Hence people who have not been wronged, but have certain characteristics in common with those wronged in the past, will spitefully try to bully those who have done nothing wrong, whose only crime is bearing a similarity to some group the grievance monger regards as an oppressor. These people are basically pperating on the level of spouled children or enraged animals. Just resist them without entertaining any hope of being able to reason with them.

Posted by: Bruce Jenner at March 31, 2015 07:00 PM (3F6F8)

854 delurking

for the last time:

BEER IS NOT EVIL

Posted by: Feh at March 31, 2015 07:04 PM (g/zj9)

855 "Some people want "fair" more than "free."

and that makes me so mad I can't even speak...

Posted by: Shoey at March 31, 2015 07:05 PM (vA94g)

856 849 @801 buzzy

"That's a nice fantasy. But unfortunately what we'll probably get is some squishy idiot that wouldn't dare use any of that overreach"

Power and access has its ways and one call always point out the former leaders indescressions while circumventing "restrictive" laws.

Feel free to elaborate on your own fantasy.
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 31, 2015 06:37 PM (fMSs7)



Bitch McConnell and the filibuster. And John Boehner and 70+ republicans siding with democrats to pass the DHS funding.

Posted by: Buzzion at March 31, 2015 07:08 PM (z/Ubi)

857 This far in and no one has gone with this yet?

The cake is a lie!

(In the hereafter, we're big on the older memes.)

Posted by: Generalissimo Francisco Franco at March 31, 2015 07:12 PM (wJliR)

858 All your cakes are belong to us.

Posted by: OCBill at March 31, 2015 07:27 PM (cPg42)

859 Bueno! That too is a classic. Also, the one with the stealing of the numerous cakes and how that is terrible - never does that one lose its appeal to even a dead dictator.

Posted by: Generalissimo Francisco Franco at March 31, 2015 07:38 PM (wJliR)

860





Fuck.That.Shit.



Discrimination is essential to life. We discriminate between bad and good, up
and down, edible and poisonous, and as humans, between right and wrong, and
true and false. We judge. We make decisions. We HAVE to.



I don't give a DAMN what the law says. I will do what is right, according to
what I know, and that means I will discriminate.

Posted by: despair at March 31, 2015
06:55 PM (J6suc)



This +1000



Less profanely, this brings to mind
Martin Luther's defense of his writings at the Diet of Worms which with Courts
and government substituted for Pope and council:




Your Imperial Majesty and Your Lordships
demand a simple answer. Here it is, plain and unvarnished. Unless
I am convinced of error by the testimony of Scripture
or (since I put no trust in the unsupported authority of Pope or
councils, since it is plain that they have often erred and often
contradicted themselves) by manifest reasoning, I stand convicted by the Scriptures to which I have appealed, and my
conscience is taken captive by God's word, I cannot and will not
recant anything, for to act against our conscience is neither
safe for us, nor open to us.


On this I take my stand. I can do no other. God help me.



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Posted by: redbanzai at March 31, 2015 07:43 PM (5DGKy)

861 Wow... what happened there and can the chief moron fix it?

Posted by: redbanzai at March 31, 2015 07:44 PM (5DGKy)

862 Sorry late to the thread... Wow over eight hundred thread replies.... It all goes back to 2008 when the dark side won. All I got to say is prepare.


Posted by: crystal ball at March 31, 2015 08:32 PM (dMB3r)

863 Soona,

I'm defining vice as one of the seven deadly sins. Essentially homosexual acts are a sin against chastity and therefore is a species of lust.

Homosexuals are people who make provisions for these acts, engage in them, and in fact find them to be true and virtuous.

There is no virtue in homosexual acts and those that engage in them are sinning. However, there is a marked difference in the person that may recognize the evil of the act and yet fall and those that have perverted the very name of chastity, calling evil good.

Those are the homosexuals. Some may say I'm weaseling out of my words, but I'm being careful in my definitions (btw, why do they always get to define the words we use).

Homosexuals are now in the process of calling good evil (the resistance to "gay marriage").

Therefore it is right and necessary to call it as it is. Homosexuals are evil.

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 08:38 PM (FQMPG)

864 I'm sure pornography and premarital sex did exist before 1960. What didn't exist was the effort to redefine the bedrock foundation of human civilization (at least I'm terms of man/woman).

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 08:46 PM (FQMPG)

865 Sean,

I haven't cherry picked anything. In fact, I didn't even bring up the bible, you did. You also criticized my understanding of the Bible (in a bit of a condescending manner).

I'm not writing a vast treatise on sin and grace here.

If you feel the need to put an asterisk next to the statement that homosexuals are evil, then do.

Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 09:08 PM (FQMPG)

866 Posted by: Ken at March 31, 2015 08:38 PM (FQMPG)

No.

Posted by: eman at April 01, 2015 12:35 AM (MQEz6)

867 The barrel shall feast tonight.

Posted by: eman at April 01, 2015 12:37 AM (MQEz6)

868 Simple truth:

American Christians are not hiding an agenda. They want "Leave it to Beaver" world back, and that is all. Nothing wrong with that. When an idea works, leave it alone.

Meanwhile, the homosexual left wants stuff they are not even mentioning yet. Everything they say when dealing with you is said while they are hiding future lunatic plans behind their foreheads.

Do not get on the train with them, because you will never be allowed to get off of it! When they want to have a butt-sex festival in the city park and you say, "Hey, I went along with gay marriage, but this is too much!" you will suddenly be a HATER! Your backing of them in the past will count for nothing. They will destroy you.

Posted by: RKae at April 01, 2015 01:17 AM (YVaHw)

869 "This is not about serving gays, this is about acceding to gays' (and non-gay Gay Enthusiasts') demeans that those who dissent with gay weddings nevertheless be forced to endorse them."

First, the demand was was stop persecuting gays.

Then, it was tolerate and accept them.

Next, it was normalize them.

Now, it's to celebrate them.

What next? Forced participation?

Somewhere along the line, the demands morphed from "live and let live" to mandatory affirmation. No matter where you are on the issues, that's taking things too far.

Posted by: can of spam at April 01, 2015 07:43 AM (g0aRc)

870
It boils down tothe radical lobby wanting theofficial state sanctioned religion resembling some form of liberal Protestantism. If they had their way, we'd have European-style speech codes as they have in Canada and Sweden.

Posted by: Wendy at April 01, 2015 10:38 AM (bpemY)

871 Would George III in his most autocratic mood force one citizen to trade with another? I doubt it. My current standards, George III was a libertarian.

Posted by: Bob at April 01, 2015 11:01 AM (fVGlW)

872 I've been pissed off at the faggots for a long time because they deliberately, and with malice aforethought, outrage good manners. Oscar Wilde referred to faggotry as "the love that dare not speak its name." Well, now it's "the love that won't shut up" and I'm sick of hearing about it.

I don't want what happens in my bedroom to be public knowledge or even a topic of conversation; it's private and should not be anyone else's business but mine as long as it doesn't involve someone not legally allowed to participate. Same thing goes for faggots. I don't care what they do in their bedrooms; they just need to have the good manners to keep it to themselves the same way that everyone else should keep their private lives private. Instead, they want everyone to not only know but approve what they do.

Well, I don't want to know what they do and I'm damned sure not going to support them since I resent the Hell out of them forcing this issue into the public arena. Faggotry and abortion are issues that should be matters of private choice and NO PUBLICITY, and anyone who tries to force them into the public arena has forfeited any hope of getting a favorable reception for their argument from me.

Everyone, homo or hetero, just needs to keep their damned private lives to themselves!

Posted by: mac at April 01, 2015 11:23 AM (qqviX)

873 872 So getting on a conservative leaning blog and peppering your comments with "faggot"makes the pain go away? Thanks for sharing the manufactured hate. You lost us with the Oscar Wilde quote.

Posted by: keeping it fake at April 01, 2015 02:26 PM (bpemY)

874 mac:

Do you keep your private life to yourself?

How?

I'm straight. And married. And I have children. AND I KEEP NONE OF THIS SECRET. I don't ask people to celebrate my heterosexuality, but I don't hide the fact that I have a wife (who I refer to as a "her", "she", "wife" or by her feminine sounding first name). I wear a wedding ring. I have pictures of my family up in my office. I actually bring my wife to office functions.

I couldn't be more outwardly heterosexual if I tried.

Should I be hiding this?

I can't imagine if I started a job and I wasn't allowed to let slip that I'm straight.

There are people who are gay. There always were. There always will be. How you and the rest of your bretheren treat them will be up to you. And history will look back on you with contempt for your bigotry.

Posted by: seattle slough at April 01, 2015 03:56 PM (mCz8+)

875 "
I don't disagree with those who refuse to serve gay weddings, and I
don't necessarily agree with them, either. I don't have to. That is the
point of tolerance -- not that I either disagree or agree with someone's
decision or someone's self-expression, but that I support his rights to decide for himself, and express himself, as he sees fit."

YES!!!!! Preach it!

Posted by: Kristen at April 01, 2015 06:06 PM (GBD60)

876 Seattle Slough: "Should I be hiding this?" If it's not relative to your job, why should you be bringing any information about it to the workplace? These days, in a rapidly disintegrating American social fabric, the less your employer knows about you other than your work habits, the better. What if he/she is a homo and has a grievance against "breeders"? What if he/she is an atheist and hates people who have religious beliefs? Such people exist and are quite open about THEIR prejudices. Why open yourself up to that danger? There is no benefit and a lot of potential downside. Leave your personal life at home, where it belongs.

Keeping it fake: "Thanks for sharing the manufactured hate." The faggots forced this conversation into the public arena. It has no business there and has done absolutely nothing positive. What it has done is give the leftist bastards yet another way to shred the nearly completely destroyed American social fabric while making another power grab on behalf of supposed "victims" who deliberately choose the behavior that makes them "victims". This country no longer has any social coherence.

If Lincoln was right about a country divided against itself being unable to stand, the U.S. of A. is absolutely sunk because there are a Hell of a lot of Americans who look at other Americans as TWANLOC who deserve harsh punishment or worse. There was a lot more agreement on social issues in 1859 than there is today and the country still ended up in a civil war.

Oh, and if you don't like the term "faggot" to refer to homosexuals, go take a look at how many of them refer to themselves by that term. It's part and parcel of the effort to be deliberately offensive to the heterosexual part of the population by "embracing the pejorative."


Posted by: mac at April 01, 2015 06:30 PM (qqviX)

877 Something you don't see a lot: one of the world's foremost hep-th physicists/cosmologists explaining on a science blog run by an atheist why he believes in God the Creator of all and accepts the story of Jesus Christ in the Gospels, without reservation and CONSISTENT WITH SCIENCE: http://tinyurl.com/otxd5b4

Posted by: Wax the Gunter Flog at April 01, 2015 07:09 PM (lqeGC)

878 christinsanity is everywhere! the only thing that is taboo and verboten is white nationalism. full stop.

Posted by: ODIN at April 02, 2015 02:15 PM (RLr5C)

879 mac: Are you being serious? Are you actually suggesting I don't let my co-workers know that I am married to a woman? Meaning I can't have any photos of my family. (or my kids as in this scenario, my bosses hate breeders despite being the products of a couple of them). No wedding ring. No mentions of "she" or "her" (or "we" - after all, they might be opposed to monogamy such that there should be no "we" to begin with.)

I'm sorry, but I should be allowed to be who I am. I should be able to mention things my family and I have done. Trips we take. Movies we've watched. And so should you. The world you apparently want to live in sounds like a horrible place to live. Are you really telling me you don't know which of your co-workers are married and which are not? Have you no idea what any of your co-workers' spouses look like, sound like, or what their names are?

Granted, I work in a small law office, but I've met every employee's significant other (if they have one). Every one. They are always at the company holiday party. They are often calling the office or stopping by. It's normal human behavior. My paralegals talk about their husbands in everyday conversation. Something Gene said. Something Nate did.

And yet, you'd live in a completely impersonal world because (ICK) you don't want to hear about it if they are gay. Who cares? That's not throwing it in anyone's face. That's being a normal human being.

I'm going to continue being a normal human being. And I'll continue treating gay people like they are normal human beings. Because they are.

Posted by: seattle slough at April 02, 2015 05:44 PM (mCz8+)

880 Seattle Slough: you "work in a small law office."
I signed million-dollar checks for the USG before I moved overseas a decade ago. I worked for a major European-based company for a decade.

This is truly not meant to sound insulting but you're naive and behind the times in your beliefs. Most of the Euros I met think marriage is an outmoded cultural habit and religious belief, particularly Christianity, is a quaint fairy tale. The Korean Government was responsible for quite a few Euro weddings because they would not allow "significant others" the same visa that married people were eligible to receive. One of my Euro colleagues who married solely due to having to serve a two-year job tour in Korea had his three children in attendance at his wedding. He bluntly said they would probably never have married had they not been required to by the assignment.

The USG actively demonized religious people. I saw the films. The religious people were depicted as being bad and prejudiced because they thought preference in hiring should be given to people who were not libertines and who came within rifleshot of adhering to traditional morality. I remember shaking my head and reflecting, once again, on the total idiocy of people who say, "I'm a social liberal but a fiscal conservative." Liberal policies cost more money, period. I'm not going to bother explaining again why this is the case, but it absolutely and certainly is.

Again, without intending to be offensive, I think from your comment that you've been working in a business that is small enough to avoid doing what most major businesses (2,000+ employees) do these days with regard to personnel policies. I suggest you start looking around the Internet at the kinds of things that make a person a target in the wider world's corporate workplace these days.

Being a straight white male is a detriment; if, in addition to that, a person practices a religion, they would be very, very wise to hide it well. It's simply taboo to mention anything about spiritual beliefs in the working world. Even the mere acknowledgement one holds such beliefs stigmatizes one as being benighted, intolerant and crazed. If you doubt that, ask yourself when the last time you saw religious people depicted in a positive light.

This thread is long since dead, but if you doubt what I've just written, it's easy enough to prove it by a bit of Google research.

Now, just to finish, I repeat what I said in my original post, the reasoning of which was drawn from my disgust with the current situation. I KNOW there are serious dangers inherent in having a company know much more about me than my work habits and the information needed for tax purposes. For me to go about advocating for heterosexual marriage in the business realm would be considered both unprofessional and distracting. It would jeopardize not only chances of promotion but even of continued employment. You're a lawyer, or at least working in the legal profession. You KNOW this. How many people has Ace written about who have lost their jobs because of something they said OUTSIDE of work about some favored group? You're a longtime Moron; you know he's addressed this lots of times.

The reason, of course, is that there are too many people out there who are involved in sexual relationships that are not marriage, and many of those people are damned uncomfortable at the idea of being judged, or considered a "sinner," by those who are married.

Consequently, if personal beliefs are not welcome in the corporate workplace for heterosexual married people, why should they be any more acceptable when expressed by homosexuals? I don't want to know if someone is heterosexual or homosexual in the workplace. That's their personal life and if one sexual orientation is being told to keep quiet about their preferences, all should be.

And, if you think the people at the heads of HR departments haven't deliberately made the choice in favor of "a completely impersonal world," you're very wrong. They WANT it that way to ward off lawsuits from disgruntled employees who might feel uncomfortable in a place that was too "heteronormative."

In our near-atomized society, the best way to avoid getting entangled in these types of things at work is to follow the old Scottish saying, "He that says what he likes will hear what he disnae like."

Posted by: mac at April 03, 2015 01:50 AM (qqviX)

881 mac: There is a huge difference in advocating for marriage and not hiding the fact that you are married. Did you remove your wedding ring at work every day? Did you never mention your kids? Did you never explain that you would be in an hour late tomorrow because you have to take your kids to the dentist or whatever?

Perhaps you don't have kids. No one with kids doesn't mention their kids. It's unavoidable. My kids are such a huge part of my life it just doesn't make sense to omit mention of them.

And don't call me naive. I deal with giant corporations on a daily basis. I'm a lawyer. I deal with the government at the federal, state, county and city level as a regular part of my job. I deal with massive international law firms. I deal with hospitals, and insurance companies and I have clients from diverse backgrounds. My wife works for the County. Do you think her co workers don't know that she has a husband? Of course they do. I've met all of them dozens of times.

Religion is a different matter. Religion is a choice. Do I advertise my atheism? No. I get it that by telling people I'm an atheist I am inherently letting them know that I think their religion is hog wash. (because it is) But not for a second would I (or should I) be afraid to reveal my basic biographical personal information. Like I have two kids. Like I'm married. Like I'm married to a woman. I wear a gold wedding band on my left ring finger.

You are one of those people who would think little Billy bringing his mom and dad to his little league game is fine but little Jimmy bringing his two dads is "throwing it in eveyone's face."

It's a ridiculous double standard.

I don't advocate for heterosexual marriage (other than the fact that I'm happily married). If asked, I will advocate for having kids because having kids was by far the best thing I ever did. But I don't advocate for atheism. Or liberalism. Or any other ism. Sexuality is not an ism. It's a basic biographical fact. No different than being left handed. Can a left handed person force themselves to use their right hand? Yes. But they will still be left handed. From everyone I've talked to (including lots of friends, relatives, and co-workers) over the years that is gay, being gay is the same way. You can choose to act straight. But you'll always be gay.

That is not the same as religion. Pretty much everyone has a sexual preference. I'm proof that not everyone has a religion. I think they are all patently and equally ridiculous.

Posted by: seattle slough at April 03, 2015 01:18 PM (mCz8+)

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