The MacGuffinization of American Politics

In a movie or book, "The MacGuffin" is the thing the hero wants.

Usually the villain wants it too, and their conflict over who will end up with The MacGuffin forms the basic spine of the story.

In Raiders of the Lost Ark, the MacGuffin is, of course, the Lost Ark. Indy wants it; the Nazis have it. This basic conflict over simple possession animates a two hour long movie.

Alfred Hitchcock noted -- counterintuitively, when you first hear this -- that the specifics of the MacGuffin don't really matter at all to a movie. He pointed out that the audience doesn't care at all about the MacGuffin. The hero in the movie itself cares, but the audience doesn't.

In one Hitchcock film, the MacGuffin was some smuggled uranium hidden in vintage wine bottles. But Hitchcock noted it didn't matter if it was uranium in wine bottles, or a fragment of a diplomatic dispatch from the Nazi high command, or a hidden murder weapon, or photographs proving a Senator's affair.

The Lost Ark in Raiders of the Lost Ark could have easily been replaced with some missing Shankara Stones from a Thuggee temple, or the Holy Grail. In fact, that's exactly what they changed the MacGuffin to in the sequels.

No audience member really cared if the Nazis wound up with the Ark of the Covenant. For one thing, the audience walked into the theater knowing, as a matter of real-world historical fact, that Adolf Hitler had not ever possessed a holy artifact of unspeakable power, and that, even if had possessed such a thing secretly, it availed him not at all, because he shot himself through the temple in a bunker as the Allied forces closed in around him in 1945.

But we cared about Indy. He was a character we liked, a character that sparked our imaginations; whether he was looting a South American burial mound (illegally, by the way!) or blowing off his students by sneaking out a back window during office hours (poor work ethic, incidentally), we rooted for him to win.

A MacGuffin only has one requirement: That it be important-sounding, so that the audience understands he hero isn't engaged in some trivial matter, but that the Stakes Are High. (Woody Allen inverted this rule in his parody espionage film What's Up Tiger Lily?, where the MacGuffin was a top-secret recipe for chicken salad.)

But an important sounding MacGuffin is just another way to increase the audience's emotional attachment to the Hero, not to the idea of possessing the MacGuffin.

And that, of course, explains all you need to know about the abnormal political situation we find ourselves in, and the Cult of Barack Obama.

For Obama's fanbois, this is not politics. This isn't even America, not really, not anymore.

This is a movie. And Barack Obama is the Hero. And the Republicans are the Villains. And policy questions -- and Obama's myriad failures as an executive -- are simply incidental. They are MacGuffins only, of no importance whatsoever, except to the extent they provide opportunities for Drama as the Hero fights in favor of them.

Watching Chris Matthews interview Obama, I was struck by just how uninterested in policy questions Matthews (and his panel) were, and how almost every question seemed to be, at heart, about Obama's emotional response to difficulties-- not about policy itself, but about Obama's Hero's Journey in navigating the plot of President Barack Obama: The Movie.

As with a MacGuffin in the movie, only the Hero's emotional response to the MacGuffin matters.

Again and again, Matthews and his panel focused not on weighty questions of state, but on what toll these important-sounding MacGuffins took upon the Star of the Picture, Barack Obama.

Matthews was not terribly interested in hearing about the problems with Obamacare, or how Obama planned to address them.

But he was very interested in learning how Obama was coping with the challenges.

Matthews didn't care all that much about disputes over the budget. But he was keenly interested in Obama's thoughts on his opponents in such struggles.

Chris Matthews' called Obama's last answer the most important in the interview, and his entire panel agreed it was simply amazing.

That last question was about Obama's -- the Hero's -- travails.

Wrapping up the interview, Matthews ended the night with a question about whether going into politics is really worth it, especially considering that the great majority of students in the audience expressed interest in some day joining the congressional ranks.

"It continues to be a way to serve that I think can be noble. It's hard. It can be frustrating. You have got to have a thick skin," Obama said. "But I tell you, the satisfaction you get when you've passed a law or you've taken an executive action and somebody comes up to you and says you know what, my kid's alive because you passed that health care bill. Because he was uninsured, he got insurance, got a check up and we caught a tumor in time [...] So for those young people who don't mind a little gray hair, it's something that I not only recommend, but I'd welcome."

Matthews' panel gushed over Obama's answer here. And why shouldn't they? Usually the Hero offers a self-reflective but somewhat grim speech as he sits in the belly of the beast, at his lowest point in his journey. It's this speech that lets the audience know the Hero may be down, but he's not yet out.

And the audience for President Barack Obama: The Movie just loved it:

HOWARD FINEMAN: i would like to say that you and the students here from AU got a once in a lifetime opportunity to see in person a president talking about what it’s like to be president, while he’s actually president. Now, he’s gone from Superman to Sisyphus. He’s talking about rolling a boulder up the hill. He has a much more mature view, but he has a moral view. I thought he made the moral case for Obamacare, for you folks to consider Obamacare as a measure of community in America. That’s what motivates Barack Obama. He knows it’s tough –

CHRIS MATTHEWS: And he lifted up. He lifted up when he talked about –

FINEMAN: The last 15 minutes of this interview were extraordinary. I’ve never seen anything like it, where a president kind of unburdened himself to you about why he’s in the ball game. And I thought he made a very compelling case for his own decency, whatever the screw-ups were managerially, and they were real.

Note what they're not talking about: America. Policy. The economy. Obamacare. Actual live political controversies and possible programmatic responses to the difficulties we face (many of which Obama has caused himself, or made worse).

No, American politics is now merely a MacGuffin, an important-sounding but ultimately inconsequential and disposable plot device for holding interest in the Hero's Journey.

Ultimately the only thing that matters is the Hero itself. It doesn't matter why the Hero Barack Obama wants the Lost Ark of Sensible Gun Control, or the Shankara Stones of Comprehensive Immigration Reform, or the Democratic Holy Grail of Affordable Health Care. These are very minor details and only matter to the extent the Hero exerts himself to achieve them.

The viewers of this film don't really care about these things, but only Obama's frustration at being denied them, or his joy in attaining them.

"This is a big f***ing deal," his incompetent Comic Sidekick said as he signed Obamacare into law. What the "this" was didn't matter then, as it scarcely matters now.

What counted was that the Hero had won.

Politics is now a MacGuffin in American politics, at least for the frothing fanbois of the Hero Barack Obama.

It doesn't matter what his goals actually are -- it only matters that he succeeds in those quests, whatever they might be.

And this isn't a new phenomenon, either. Since the beginning of this movie, the fanbois have cared very little for MacGuffins (notice they don't care how many thousands of Americans have died in Afghanistan), but have been intensely interested in the Hero's emotional response to it all.

You root for the Hero to win because you like the Hero -- not because you're particularly invested in the Hero's actual goals. And you despise the Villains simply because they're standing in the way of the Hero's triumph.

Chris Matthews sums up, neatly, his only genuine interest in American politics for the past five years:

“We have real people in this country with real power and status who have used that status of power to hurt the country so they could hurt the president.

Only the Hero matters. The MacGuffin never does.

The Hero is our hopes and dreams. And the Hero has come to us; he has come amongst us.


Posted by: Ace at 02:46 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 first

Posted by: Cicero Kid at December 06, 2013 02:47 PM (6fSty)

2 If Barky is your idea of a movie hero, then you ain't all there.

Posted by: Student Loans Consortium Uber Alles at December 06, 2013 02:48 PM (kXoT0)

3 But I tell you, the satisfaction you get when you've passed a law or
you've taken an executive action and somebody comes up to you and says
you know what, my kid's alive because you passed that health care bill.
Because he was uninsured, he got insurance, got a check up and we caught
a tumor in time.
--

because before we just let tots die, Because we are a mean country!

Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 02:49 PM (nqBYe)

4 this guy is anything but Presidential .
community agitator .all.the.way.

Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 02:50 PM (nqBYe)

5 Wow, lots to digest, before speaking forth

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 06, 2013 02:50 PM (HVff2)

6 Woody Allen's chicken salad thing was a joke?

Now that you say that, I guess it's kind of insulting to those of us who take our chicken salad seriously.

Posted by: Phinn at December 06, 2013 02:50 PM (KOGmz)

7 2 If Barky is your idea of a movie hero, then you ain't all there.

---

Look who we're talking about to begin with.

Lefties in this country usually tend to be a despicable bunch of people who only care about The Narrative rather than actually doing something.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 02:50 PM (/Crba)

8 And if millions are hurt in the process it is just a side plot.

Posted by: AE at December 06, 2013 02:51 PM (HYceo)

9 Does Chris Matthews use a variant of the Magic 8 Ball to guide his remarks.


Barky is a genius -- floats up

Barky lifts up -- floats up

etc.

What the heck would he do if, "Barky is a clueless cretin" floats up?

Posted by: Student Loans Consortium Uber Alles at December 06, 2013 02:51 PM (kXoT0)

10 I saw Spear of Destiny open for Molly Hatchet at Bell Auditorium in 1978 .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 06, 2013 02:51 PM (WK8VM)

11
What the heck would he do if, "Barky is a clueless cretin" floats up?

---

"Reply hazy - try again later".

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 02:51 PM (/Crba)

12
4 this guy is anything but Presidential .
community agitator .all.the.way.



You misspelled 'communist agitator'.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at December 06, 2013 02:52 PM (6fSty)

13 It's time for Matthews to join Bashir and Baldwin on the sidelines.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Weary and Wary at December 06, 2013 02:52 PM (kXoT0)

14 Nicely done, Ace.

Posted by: Piercello at December 06, 2013 02:53 PM (P4dpU)

15 heck should i be grateful He didn't say due to His healthcare Doc's weren't randomly cutting off the feets of those little folks, for what?

all the time, agitating .

if it wasn't for me, you would not have lived!
contrary to thousands of years of history before HE arrived.



Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 02:53 PM (nqBYe)

16 Well said (and said and said) ace.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone but Likes This Post at December 06, 2013 02:53 PM (r1ruo)

17 I saw MacGuffin open for Some Kind of Weasel at Gerde's Folk City in '75.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at December 06, 2013 02:54 PM (A0sHn)

18 First of all: when did Ace adopt the writing style of Ayn Rand. I got it in one don't need to tell me again. Second you missed Pulp Fiction which would be the classic example of an abstract McWhatsiit.

Posted by: bestie21 at December 06, 2013 02:54 PM (AzO5R)

19 Well said.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 06, 2013 02:56 PM (g1DWB)

20 Politics as moviemaking. Hmm. It fits with the everlasting child culture we have now.

Barry Soetoro is Peter Pan.

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 02:56 PM (QupBk)

21 I've always liked this movie.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 02:56 PM (GQ8sn)

22 A well thought out & written piece Ace.

To be honest it's nice to have your commentary, no way I could've watched tingles & fineman, I don't have enough narcotics for that

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 06, 2013 02:56 PM (HVff2)

23 Chris is picturing one of those rom-coms where he and Barack are the only ones that don't see how perfect they are for each other. Love was right in front of them the whole time!

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at December 06, 2013 02:57 PM (+lsX1)

24 Oh, so this IS a movie review.

Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at December 06, 2013 02:57 PM (sBegS)

25 What is the Maguffin in "Wolf of Wall Street"?

Is the candle?

Posted by: Havildar-Major at December 06, 2013 02:57 PM (kduZC)

26 Oh, sorry. I thought this thread was amout McMuffins. My bad.

Posted by: Chris Christie at December 06, 2013 02:58 PM (5M2+1)

27 @8 And if millions are hurt in the process it is just a side plot.
Posted by: AE at December 06, 2013 02:51


See, e.g. the planet Aldoran, sacrificed for the MacGuffin Death Star Plans.

Posted by: RS at December 06, 2013 02:58 PM (YAGV/)

28 If I had a son, he'd look like Chris Mathews.

Posted by: Stay Puft Marshmellow Man at December 06, 2013 02:59 PM (5M2+1)

29 I thought he made the moral case for Obamacare, for you folks to consider Obamacare as a measure of community in America. That’s what motivates Barack Obama.

Gack. Because nothing say 'Community' like a gun to my head and a hand in my pocket.

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 02:59 PM (QupBk)

30 I really cared about Red Matter.

Red Matter matters.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 03:00 PM (fsLdt)

31 Well, the President is BLACK.

Black guys make great heroes.

DO YOU EVEN WATCH THE MOVIES???

Posted by: JX at December 06, 2013 03:00 PM (hPjYm)

32 Its a fucking cult.

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:00 PM (oXeuc)

33 I liked how Time Bandits took the "fuckit" route and just named their MacGuffin "The Most Fabulous Object In The Universe."

Nobody knew what it was, what it looked like or what it did. And nobody gave a shit, even the midgets trying to get it. They just knew they wanted it.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 06, 2013 03:00 PM (pqBkB)

34
TL;DR. Another movie review? Raiders of the Lost Ark?
Just kidding. Ace, you have accurately distilled the essence of politics in the Age of Obama, the subjugation of policy to emotions. No wonder I've developed a seething hatred of 52% of the voting public.

Posted by: BUTCH at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (0APJ3)

35 History will not be kind to Barack Obama.


Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (kUgpq)

36 A macguffin doesn't matter to viewers because it's not like we are going to get the treasure or whatever. But we do care if the macguffin is a puppy because puppies...

Posted by: Dr. Jesse Pinkman at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (kkbgQ)

37
I liked how Time Bandits took the "fuckit" route and just named their MacGuffin "The Most Fabulous Object In The Universe."



Nobody knew what it was, what it looked like or what it did. And
nobody gave a shit, even the midgets trying to get it. They just knew
they wanted it.





Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 06, 2013 03:00 PM (pqBkB)

Hey! We were just talking about you.

Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (GQ8sn)

38 I love the way your brain works Ace. Excellent analogy.

Posted by: Oil Field Trash at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (oZ6Js)

39 On The Variability of MacGuffins: Shep Smith just reported that the stolen material in Mexico was (get this) Titanium 60.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (xq1UY)

40 Wait. What?

Since when is AOSHQ a smart movie blog?!

Posted by: Walter Freeman at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (kqGWM)

41 The Ishtar presidency.

Posted by: Dr Spank at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (P1WNR)

42 History will not be kind to Barack Obama.




Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (kUgpq)

Depends on who wins and writes the History.

Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (nqBYe)

43
I've been thinking about the Buffalo Springfield song, "Stop, hey what's that sound?" "blah blah blah and carrying signs / mostly say hooray for our side".

It's like that on both sides, cheerleading for Our Team, but the sycophancy and smug superiority on Team Obama's side are getting really hard to take.

Posted by: White House Jugend at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (A0sHn)

44 They will never admit Obama is a failure without blaming it on Republican opposition you guys know this right?

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (oXeuc)

45 Since when is AOSHQ a smart movie blog?!

Posted by: Walter Freeman at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (kqGWM)

As long as it's been a smart vajayjay knitting blog...at least.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Weary and Wary at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (kXoT0)

46 "...almost every question seemed to be, at heart, about Obama's emotional
response to difficulties-- not about policy itself, but about Obama's
Hero's Journey in navigating the plot of President Barack Obama: The Movie."

You have captured the essence of Obama's presidency. Well done, Ace.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (JRmiD)

47 Speaking of books and movies, I wouldn't mind seeing a few more movie reviews/tv suggestions. It doesn't seem like there's much to watch, but Ace tends to find obscure stuff that's pretty good, like the OSS movies. But one thing - if you say Masters of Sex, I'll burn this place right to the ground.

Posted by: Xander Crews at December 06, 2013 03:03 PM (LGz3p)

48 EXCELLENT post, ace. I hope this gets shared around on Insty and the like, because it really gets to the heart of the Cult of Obama.

My only argument would be this:


No, American politics is now merely a MacGuffin, an important-sounding but ultimately inconsequential and disposable plot device for holding interest in the Hero's Journey.


I wouldn't say American politics is the MacGuffin. Rather, America has become the MacGuffin. Politics is the sacrificial blood by which the adulating hordes of Obama's cultists can pledge their fealty to him.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:03 PM (4df7R)

49 Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Democrats call these things "sweet":
1. The cause of abortion
2. The cause of controlling your behavior that is not harmful to others
3. Playing Calvinball with the courts system to promote their values
4. Taking from their political foes, and giving that takings to their political allies
5. Lying in defense of their values
6. Stealing in defense of their values

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:03 PM (sByIH)

50 And as the president left the studio Chris pressed his TrapperKeeper tightly against his chest and sighed.

"If only, if only...." he whispered to the perfectly tailored suit walking away.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Death Capades - ObamaCare on Ice! Sponsored by the Outrage Outlet at December 06, 2013 03:03 PM (hLRSq)

51 I don't care that Matthews buys kneepads by the truckload. What I do care about is that he doesn't bother to wipe off his chin before turning around to lecture the rest of us.

Imagine if Obama murdered some children and it was caught on tape. Chris Matthews wouldn't be sorrowful at the loss of some innocent lives. Instead, he'd be crying because the video of the murder might hurt Obama. Frankly, I don't how to talk to people like that unless they're in a straightjacket and locked in a padded cell.

Posted by: physics geek at December 06, 2013 03:03 PM (MT22W)

52 At the heart of this matter, the MacGuffin does indeed not matter.

That's because liberals are emotional, not intellectual.

Think about any issue and put it in those terms. It follows as a paradigm for the entire parade of issues Mr Obama has foisted upon us since 2008.

He immediately appeals to emotion. Damn the facts. Those are just artifacts the opposition uses to foil Mr. Obama and Democrats plans.

And he wouldn't get away with except for the press. The media used to serve as a check against such MMM because they dealt in tangible facts.

They don't anymore. They've become the largest group of fanboi's. Every issue is retrofitted into their personal emotional perspective. It's never broken down into component parts and scrutinized in a deliberate and meaningful way. It is simply crafted to fit a predetermined conclusion based on bias.

I cannot express my loathing and hate enough for the media. There is not a more worthless group of people on this planet. I mostly blame them for our predicament.

Posted by: Marcus at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (GGCsk)

53 Politics as moviemaking. Hmm. It fits with the everlasting child culture we have now.

And you can blame Hillary Clinton for it. In Bob Woodward's first book (which name I know forget and, well, it being Bob Woodward, I am not included to plug it) Woodward decribes a scene in the White House early in the administration. The Clinton's are getting hammered on health care and all the important people have gathered to collectively think of way to save it. Ideas are thrashed back and forth when Hillary steps and explains that they are doing it wrong.

What is needed is a "story" a story with good guys (them) and bad guys (rational people who understand that what the Clintons want to do is unworkable). The people, Hillary explain, need a narrative to lead them to support the good guys and stop the bad guys.

Obama has mastered the art of the story. Of course, he has had plenty of help. A media that is shamelessly rooting for the "good guy", a large segment of the country suffering from white guilt and a culture that awards the silly and dismisses the serious.

This is just the last, best and perhaps most telling of the journey from the seriousness of country to crafting of the story: a so-called journolist gets a rare opportunity to interview the President and worries about how he feels, how he is surviving the struggle.

Its pathetic. But then again, it makes for a better story.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (OWjjx)

54 "He Came amongst us". And in my hair, got my chin too (which was already wet as usual from being hammered) He got the producer, hit the teleprompter, ruined a keyboard and hit the sound guy. He's like the Peter North of world leaders! I still haven't showered, nor shant I for a long time!

Posted by: Chris Matthews at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (5M2+1)

55 So, in "The Avengers," is it wrong that I was totally rooting for Loki to hold onto the MacGuffin (tesseract) and win? Because the Avengers themselves are so WHINY.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (4df7R)

56
History will not be kind to Barack Obama.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (kUgpq)

Yeah, most history gets written by extremely Liberal College Professors, so I have little hope that anything real will be written about him until around 2114 or so.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Weary and Wary at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (kXoT0)

57 Indiana Jones and Obama walk into an Irish bar.

The bartender says " How you guys doing? My name's MacGuffin. What can I get you ?

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (m2CN7)

58 >>>>I liked how Time Bandits took the "fuckit" route and just named their MacGuffin "The Most Fabulous Object In The Universe."

Nobody knew what it was, what it looked like or what it did.

...

hah yeah.

They did that in Pulp Fiction, too, where you never see the MacGuffin. You just see a golden/roseate glow. You just know it's important because of the reaction on the character's faces.

Actually, this is interesting: True Romance was one of the stories in Pulp Fiction, and the MacGuffin in Pulp Fiction was therefore the suitcase full of coke from True Romance.

But when they separated out the True Romance story from Pulp Fiction, that left them missing a MacGuffin, so Tarantino just said "ah fuckit, it don't matter, it'll just be a glowing sort of thing that everyone is super-impressed to see."

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (/FnUH)

59 libya, = republican mistake
egypt, yep those nasty republicans
gov health care website, yeah somehow republicans
emancipation proclamation.= republicans. woops!

Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 03:05 PM (nqBYe)

60 I think this is both a deliberate cause and a deliberate side effect of the tribalization of politics.

Or I should say re-tribalization.

Tried to get away from that one, but it's too useful a tactic to abandon, as destructive as the results are.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 06, 2013 03:05 PM (qyfb5)

61 Rejected "Raiders of the Lost Ark" titles.

Conflicts and such about some stuff.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 03:05 PM (Kkt/i)

62 Great piece, Ace.

And I always thought the Biden dialogue was a bit on the nose with the, "This is a big, fucking deal." line. What happened to show, don't tell?

Hopefully we're still in draft.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:05 PM (ZPrif)

63 In the Empire Strikes back the empire and Darth Vader out smarted the hero and only won because of betrayal.

This is how Obama's failures are explained away.

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:05 PM (oXeuc)

64 Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (oXeuc)

But that's only because the Republicans are not worthy of a leader like Barack Neville Nelson Obama.

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 06, 2013 03:05 PM (XdnQT)

65 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 06, 2013 03:00 PM

I've been off grid for a while and I was just asking downthread if you've been posting. I was sure I would see you on the vagina knitting art thread.

Posted by: Minnfidel at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (5M2+1)

66 Vice President Short Round? Sounds about right.
Barry! Cover your heart! Cover your heart!

Posted by: kalel666 at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (gSqI7)

67
Good post.

Thing is, and I know ace didn't say it, but MacGuffinization is not the exclusive province of the Left. I think you see it from Establishment GOPers as well.

How many times do we keep hearing from them that electing Rs is the most important thing, so don't worry about amnesty for illegals....?

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (PFy0L)

68 Nice one, Ace.

Posted by: rdbrewer at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (Iyg03)

69 So what's you're saying is that I didn't like this movie is actually in-depth political analysis? That's an excellent point.


This dovetails with Noonan's comments about how the Bright Young Things surrounding Sir Puttsalot view what is happening as a movie. It's not. It's reality. Real people are experiencing real problems as a result of the real decisions that are being made. There's no resent. There's no rewind. There's no flipping the script. It's real.


The important part of a policy is not how people will feel about it or how people will react emotionally to it. It is what that policy does and what will happen upon implementation of the policy. How I, or anyone else, feels about it is the least interesting part of that policy.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (VtjlW)

70 Same thing with Kennedy. These guys aren't presidents; they're movie stars. They have the same effect on the audience as a movie star--emotional doping. Doesn't matter what Kennedy actually did. It will always be "Camelot." Of course Camelot was on a par with Utopia, with an imaginary king and imaginary triumphs.

Posted by: Caliban at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (DrC22)

71
And here I was gonna thrash the room-temperature equine by making an Ace movie review joke.

Meta-Ewok confuses and frightens me.......




Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (TIIx5)

72 Repo Mexican. That glowing MacGuffin in the car trunk.

Sometimes you really don't want to get the MacGuffin you just think you do.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 06, 2013 03:06 PM (g1DWB)

73 Wait, was there a movie review in there somewhere?

Posted by: Havedash at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (SIR+t)

74 "It continues to be a way to serve that I think can be noble. It's hard.


A year and a half of voting "present" is noble. And hard. Got it.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (7ObY1)

75 This is a genuinely brilliant posting, thank you.

We live in a world of stories, not reality.

Posted by: Andrew X at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (r/Dlx)

76 Great post, Ace.

This really gets to me:

"my kid's alive because you passed that health care bill."

Let me stipulate, for the sake of argument, that someday someone will tell him this and it will be true.

Does he even admit of the possibility that for every parent who'll be able to say that, there might be ten who'd say, "My kid is dead because you fucked with our insurance just when we happened to need it most, and we couldn't see the doctor who just might have helped him"?

Getting sick to death of liberals - their whole MO is to do good right under there noses and ignore or deny the harm they cause elsewhere. And whether they actually DO the good under their noses doesn't matter; just wanting to is good enough.

As for Matthews, I won't even say it. He is simply in love, and the heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing.

Posted by: JPS at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (Brc00)

77 so msnbc has advertisers And an owner selling products.

what to do.
what to do.

Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (nqBYe)

78 You root for the Hero to win because you like the Hero -- not because you're particularly invested in the Hero's actual goals. And you despise the Villains simply because they're standing in the way of the Hero's triumph.

Obama isn’t Chance the Gardener. He’s Humbert Humbert. If you look at the MacGuffin, you realize it’s screwing a 12-year-old girl. But two generations of filmmakers and moviegoers have fallen prey to Humbert’s vision of the forward little vixen and the nagging little housewife who stood in his way.

I think that part of Nabakov’s message in Lolita was the ease with which even the most despicable person can rewrite news and history in their favor.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (QF8uk)

79 On a serious note, though, it's not that American politics has copied the movies.

It's that both movies and politics are trying to appeal to and manipulate the same underlying human tribal psyche that lives on simple Hero stories to make sense of the world.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (ZPrif)

80 I really liked this post, Ace, apart from telling us 20x how a MacGuffin works. I definitely see what you're getting at, but I think you overlook an important implication.

If it's true that the Cult of Obama really sees this as a fictional movie setting, then aren't they all, by definition, psychotic? The definition of psychosis is when thought and emotion are so fucked that you have literally lost contact with the real world. If they think that Obama is some sort of hero with a quest that must be won, lest darkness fill the land, then it really is only a matter of time until they start on some typical "let's all get together and wish away the bad men" crusade to support their valiant warrior.

Posted by: YourPoopyPants at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (Y/HG5)

81 When someone says "community" I know I hate them.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 03:07 PM (fsLdt)

82 Tarantino just said "ah fuckit, it don't matter, it'll just be a glowing sort of thing that everyone is super-impressed to see."

Tarantino blamed that one on someone else and has publicly called it a mistake.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:08 PM (sByIH)

83 For Obama's fanbois, this is not politics. This isn't even America, not really, not anymore.

This is a movie. And Barack Obama is the Hero. And the Republicans are the Villains. And policy questions -- and Obama's myriad failures as an executive -- are simply incidental. They are MacGuffins only, of no importance whatsoever, except to the extent they provide opportunities for Drama as the Hero fights in favor of them.

OK, this is kind of brilliant, Ace.

Too bad you didn't publish it in The Federalist or some place -- you know, so a famous radio personality could recommend it and the other site could get a lot of traffic.

Posted by: edj at December 06, 2013 03:08 PM (klzyR)

84 And if millions are hurt in the process it is just a side plot.
---
One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic.

Posted by: Stuff Stalin Said, Vols I - IV at December 06, 2013 03:08 PM (wcLJG)

85 The point I made here yesterday is about the con-man.

Once someone has been made to pay the price of the con-man. They are changed for good with regard for the con-man. They never go back. Obamacare is real, cold, hard, reality. Pay up suckers.

Matthews, Fineman, etc. aren't paying a price. They have the luxury playing audience to their hero. It makes them feel good and costs them nothing real like cold hard cash.

Million just got the shaft. Each week millions more will have to pay the con-man and get the shaft.

Paying the con-man takes the fanboi out of the fanboi.

A fanboi is only a fanboi until it costs him directly.

There's nowhere for Obamaturd to go but downward no matter how many rich, untouched fanbois slobber over him.

Posted by: Barky Oblowme at December 06, 2013 03:08 PM (D2zE2)

86 Great post, ACE.

I know it's great because I actually read it...all of it, before commenting.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 06, 2013 03:08 PM (7ObY1)

87
Speaking of Raiders of the Lost Ark....

How, exactly, did Indy get off the Nazi Island with theArk?

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 06, 2013 03:08 PM (PFy0L)

88
Can we get MacGuffin on the Republican ticket?
MacGuffin/Cruz maybe?

Posted by: Roland THTG at December 06, 2013 03:09 PM (QM5S2)

89 In a different way, this was almost as good as the Kaboom post.

Posted by: Vizzy at December 06, 2013 03:09 PM (H0lcY)

90 Top shelf analysis here Ace, excellent work.

Posted by: bigjack at December 06, 2013 03:09 PM (N/rPL)

91 Depends on who wins and writes the History.

وقد برز الإمام الثاني عشر

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 03:09 PM (QupBk)

92 My favorite part is the volcano.

Posted by: Tami at December 06, 2013 03:09 PM (bCEmE)

93 says you know what, my kid's alive because you passed that health care bill.

What about the 100s real dead from the ObamaFail for each one of these theoretical saves. I'm pretty sure we won't see any of them "walking" up to him.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (DL2i+)

94 I always was amazed at how MacGuffin could make a bomb from a piece of gum and a paper clip.

Posted by: Minnfidel at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (5M2+1)

95 Great post, Ace.

Zero said it himself; "I am the change", or "the change is me".

That's it.

Elect Zero POTUS, and it's Mission Accomplished. Everything that has followed from Nov '08 -the domestic policy, foreign policy, budgetary issues, defense, the economy, all of it, is just afterdivinebirth.

Posted by: aquaviva at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (wFinq)

96 "somebody comes up to you and says you know what, my kid's alive because
you passed that health care bill. Because he was uninsured, he got
insurance, got a check up and we caught a tumor in time [...]"

Oh, you mean the insurance almost no one can buy and even if they can and have, hasn't kicked in yet? That insurance? That speculative, future insurance has had time to catch cancerous tumors in uninsurable children and have such successes reported up to the President in private and they just, you know, decided *not* to trumpet this wonderful Obamacare triumph to all and sundry?

Jesus Christ, what a shameless fucking liar.

And Matthews and co. are grade A morons to believe a word of it. I don't even mean that pejoratively. I mean that they are fucking stupid.

Posted by: dawnfire82 at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (1/hzQ)

97 "You root for the Hero to win because you like the Hero -- not because you're particularly invested in the Hero's actual goals."

Which is why we've heard for the past five years now how much the American people like obama as a person. Because, as far as the opinion-makers of the left are concerned, that's really all that matters. Not what his failures are. Not what his successes are. Just whether or not we'd like to sit down and spend some time with him. And if you wouldn't, you're probably racist...

We constantly hear how his efforts are being unfairly thwarted by the evil Republicans, as if the Rs controlling one half of one branch of government could keep obama from having everything he wants. Particularly since now, apparently, all he has to do is scratch his pen across a page, and executive order whatever he wants into or out of existence. So employer mandate? Gone. For now...

Posted by: elaine at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (GNZ0/)

98 If HeroPants O'Narrative is not going to lead the nation may we borrow it awhile?

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (9jfyN)

99 Nice one, Ace.

I'm going to have my 13 year old read it.

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (SUKHu)

100 Barack Obama, the Movie: Raiders of Whitey's Fortunes and Future

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (Kkt/i)

101 72 Repo Mexican. That glowing MacGuffin in the car trunk.

Sometimes you really don't want to get the MacGuffin you just think you do.

---

John Wayne was a fag!

Posted by: Miller at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (/Crba)

102 SCOAMT, his administration, the MFM, LIVs = The Thuggee cult

The rest of America = Kids enslaved in the mines

Winnie = John Boehner

Short Round = Mitch McConnell

Indy = Who will take up the fedora and whip???




Posted by: hates this movie at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (bvtgt)

103 Crap, wrong language

امام دوازدهم پدید آمده است

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (QupBk)

104 I figured Clinton and Bush-Jr were the same way. I rooted for Bush because I liked him personally. As a President, he was Hoover II. I hated Clinton at first, then just tried to ignore him. As a President, he was, I dunno, Van Buren or Harding. Better than Bush anyway.

Btw, that's why people went apeshit over rush's "I hope he fails". You're not supposed to root for the Nazis in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (yvLNt)

105 Alright Ace, has does the MacGuffin Theory work for a movie like Castaway?

The MacGuffin is Hanks' life and both he and the elements are vying for it?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 06, 2013 03:11 PM (da5Wo)

106 You root for the Hero to win because you like the Hero -- not because you're particularly invested in the Hero's actual goals. And you despise the Villains simply because they're standing in the way of the Hero's triumph.
I think the only movie I've seen that contradicts this sentiment for me is A Few Good Men. Also in politics , the MacGuffin factor of hero / villain doesn't apply fully because usually about half the people have a different opinion on who the hero is and who the villain is.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:11 PM (m2CN7)

107 Lefties in this country are a coalition of minorities who'd like to see each of their lifestyles mainstreamed. All consequences be damned...

Politicians, such as BHO. Have successfully macguffened their coalitions issues into an array of clusterfucks.

So I agree with Ace in that the narrators (Politicians and their Media machine) are succeeding in "squirrel-guffening" the coalition into a sort of psuedo-mob for the goal of manufacturing a mob that appears to be united on every issue.

I disagree with Ace in that the coalition has forgotten what it has wanted.

Posted by: cajun caret at December 06, 2013 03:11 PM (UZQM8)

108 I just want to commend Ace for watching the Matthews interview.

Personally, I have more self-respect and not enough self-loathing to do that.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 06, 2013 03:11 PM (OWjjx)

109 An earlier example of the flexible macguffin was Firesign Theatre's Giant Rat of Sumatra, where everyone was after "the amplifier of unlimited power, the tool of the universe." I'd almost bet someone much earlier did that trick, like Spenser or Malory. Or, Apuleius, author of The Golden Ass, for instance. Mmm, ass.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at December 06, 2013 03:11 PM (xq1UY)

110 Ronin made a point of never letting you know what was in the suitcase. You're supposed to observe that spy types never really know what thing they're trying to obtain / stop others from obtaining.

Of course if you step back a pace you'll know that spy types aren't going into the field much if at all. They hire locals to do the dangerous crap.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:11 PM (sByIH)

111 As a President, he was, I dunno, Van Buren or Harding. Better than Bush anyway. Btw, that's why people went apeshit over rush's "I hope he fails". You're not supposed to root for the Nazis in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (yvLNt)

Clinton was better than Bush? Mary mother of Hey Zeus.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:12 PM (m2CN7)

112 Also, this is why Hillary will lose.

Most people won't pay to see a Hero Story about an old lady.

Just by looking at her we know she can't possibly be the Hero of the movie.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:12 PM (ZPrif)

113 Oh great, we got Sydney Greenstreet on our side.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:12 PM (iGP6J)

114 I hear some woman recently knitted a MacGuffin out of wool.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (VndSC)

115 The creature walks among(st) us.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (XRt8X)

116 the Democratic Holy Grail of Affordable Health Care.

Well if it costs one Hot Blonde and a Nazi to repeal it then, Sorry Babe.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (DL2i+)

117 42 History will not be kind to Barack Obama.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at December 06, 2013 03:01 PM (kUgpq)

Depends on who wins and writes the History.
Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 03:02 PM (nqBYe)


They lost the cold war but the left is still arguing that Alger Hiss is innocent and McCarthy is the devil incarnate. So, all they have to do is write the history and since they control the universities and the media they will.

Posted by: Dr. Jesse Pinkman at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (kkbgQ)

118 This dovetails with Noonan's comments about how the Bright Young Things surrounding Sir Puttsalot view what is happening as a movie. It's not. It's reality. Real people are experiencing real problems as a result of the real decisions that are being made. There's no resent. There's no rewind. There's no flipping the script. It's real.


Which is what makes the continued opposition to repealing Obamacare so revolting. Anyone should be able to look at what this awful "law" is doing to the country -- to actual PEOPLE who are actually HURTING because of it -- and know that the right thing to do is to repeal it. To UNMAKE it, and to try and set the stage for people to get their lives together again.

But no. Repeal the MacGuffin? That would be like giving the Grail to Donovan! Or Luke using his targeting computer instead of the Force and not being able to blow up the Death Star! Or Frodo failing to throw The One Ring into Mount Doom! It would be a devastating blow to the audience that's followed their Hero's story! You can't DO that to the Hero. They have to succeed! Against all odds, regardless of what happens, they have to succeed!

It's sickening. Beyond reason.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (4df7R)

119 >>>I really liked this post, Ace, apart from telling us 20x how a MacGuffin works. I definitely see what you're getting at, but I think you overlook an important implication.

sorry about that, but it's hard to write longer pieces during the news day, as people expect a post at least once an hour.

This results in longer pieces being *very* stream of consciousness and not edited at all.

I hurried. I've been aware for a while how long it's been since any kind of post (and my first post was just link-stuff).

As Thomas Jefferson said (I think), "I am sorry to have written you such a long letter; I did not have time to write a shorter one."

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (/FnUH)

120 What about Big Trouble in Little China? Was the Mcguffin the green eyed Asian lady or Jack's truck?

Also who really cared about his truck?

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (oXeuc)

121 "...Hardball with Chris Matthews was the most-watched show across MSNBC’s primetime lineup Tuesday night with 930K total viewers. The Rachel Maddow Show came in second on the network with 877K and All In with Chris Hayes was third with 818K."

"...In the 25-54 demo, Chris Matthews‘ show came in second place on MSNBC with 216K viewers, behind Rachel Maddow who had 274K.

***

At what point is MSNBC going to be considered "an expensive hobby" by the IRS for NBC? When Matthews is doing his nightly jerk-off in an NBC broom closet with a hairbrush as a microphone?

Posted by: B at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (5OEha)

122 Breaking! News!

Changing my show name to "Money Shot" to better reflect what I like my boyfriend to spray all over my face!

Lean Forward, Stick Out Your Tongue!

Posted by: Chrissy Matthews at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (27KAF)

123 Bravo, Ace. Awesome article.

Posted by: Adrienne at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (SKUEN)

124
Amnesty is an example. Same admin that allowed guns to walk to Mexico is concerned about the welfare of Mexicans? So they say. But that MacGuffin matters to the scalawags, not the politicians. They only care about it enough to make it a Thing.

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (3ZtZW)

125 What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy? Yea, he runs drugs and gets innocent people hurt or killed but he's sooo cool! Because he shows a redeeming quality once and a while and the viewer sees either a bit of themselves or just feels better because they at least aren't that guy.

Posted by: Minnfidel at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (5M2+1)

126 Slow clap.

Posted by: Memories at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (0HUa3)

127 "But I tell you, the satisfaction you get when you've passed a law or you've taken an executive action and somebody comes up to you and says you know what, my kid's alive because you passed that health care bill. Because he was uninsured, he got insurance, got a check up and we caught a tumor in time...

A photo op. A fucking photo op. Throw one-sixth of the American economy into a blender, jam the button down to full macerate, and hope for a photo op.

I have issues with making decisions. First I write down my 'intuitive' decision. Then I fire up a spread sheet and list pro's and con's. Then I 'weight' the value of each item, then compare the totals.

ObamaCare was a very bad decision, made for the purpose of a f*in photo op.

Posted by: Ugg Boots at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (OPROh)

128 bear in mind, most essayists have at least one day, if not two or three, to write an essay.

When I write one during the day, I've got an hour, hour and a half.

I will try to edit it some now.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (/FnUH)

129 It doesn't matter why the Hero Barack Obama wants the Lost Ark of Sensible Gun Control, or the Shankara Stones of Comprehensive Immigration Reform, or the Democratic Holy Grail of Affordable Health Care.

Or the Crystal Skulls of Democrat Party Voter Fraud.

Posted by: edj at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (klzyR)

130 The Administration as an Adventure Movie.

Except the blood and bodies and suffering is real, not a script, and not CGI.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Death Capades - ObamaCare on Ice! Sponsored by the Outrage Outlet at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (hLRSq)

131 I saw Flexible Macguffin open for Flogging Molly, SXSW Festival, Austin, 2004

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (7ObY1)

132 Not every movie has to have a MacGuffin.
You just need something the Hero wants.

In Castaway the Hero wants to not die. And then to get off the island. Pretty basic human instincts. Easy for the audience to understand.

It's why people love chase scenes. Hero's motivation is very clear -- not die.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (ZPrif)

133 Ace Wrote:
"The Lost Ark in Raiders of the Lost Ark could have easily been replaced with some missing Shankara Stones from a Thuggee temple, or the Holy Grail. In fact, that's exactly what they changed the MacGuffin to in the sequels. And it really wouldn't matter at all if Indy was searching for the Holy Grail in the first movie -- Raiders of the Lost Grail would have been just as huge a hit -- or if he was searching for the Lost Ark in the third one. "



Disagree completely. The reason the original story was so compelling is because the Ark was so recognizable to audiences as compared to some goofy rocks in some (as far as I knew) made up religion.

People cared about the Ark because they recognized it as noteworthy. Nobody had a clue about those Indian stones, and I for one didn't give a crap about that movie, or for that matter any of the subsequent movies.

Sure, the Holy Grail was recognizable, but during the Indian Rocks story, the Franchise jumped the shark in my opinion.

The first one was great. The rest of them were only fit for ignorant adolescent boys who really didn't care what the MacGuffin was.



Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (bb5+k)

134 And how drunk is Matthews these day? Hey, Alcoholic Chris, answer me these question, dumb-ass:

Which powerful Republican sabotoged the web site? Which powerful Republican cancelled all of those insurance plans because HHS wrote regulations that required the plans to be cancelled? Which powerful Republican made sure the web site was a secured as 12 year old cellphone left out on a lunch table during recess?

Cause that is the sonofbitch I want to nominate.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 06, 2013 03:16 PM (OWjjx)

135 Reality is only an illusion to the left, and a poor one at that!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 06, 2013 03:16 PM (XdnQT)

136 >>apart from telling us 20x how a MacGuffin works.

It didn't matter what Ace was explaining 20 times, we were just rooting for him to move on to the next point.

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 06, 2013 03:16 PM (SUKHu)

137 The last thing I'd do is tangle with Raiden and Shang Tsung for a truck of all things. Just saying

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:16 PM (oXeuc)

138 4
this guy is anything but Presidential .
community agitator .all.the.way.


Posted by: willow at December 06, 2013 02:50 PM (nqBYe)

Wouldn't matter much , if it wasn't for the media. Amazing mass hysteria.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 06, 2013 03:16 PM (AWmfW)

139 120 What about Big Trouble in Little China? Was the Mcguffin the green eyed Asian lady or Jack's truck?

Also who really cared about his truck?

---

Technically the MacGuffin in Little China would be Jack's money and the truck, as he gets involved in the whole mess because Wang owed him money and he wasn't letting him out of his sight until he got it.

That meant a trip to the airport, which became a trip to Chinatown chasing the thugs who grabbed Wang's girl, which became Jack and Wang running for their lives when Lo Pan and his buddies showed up.


BTW, Jack wasn't the protagonist in the movie, he was the comedic sidekick to Wang. He just didn't realize it.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:16 PM (/Crba)

140 >>>What about Big Trouble in Little China? Was the Mcguffin the green eyed Asian lady or Jack's truck?

Also who really cared about his truck?

...

yeah both. People can be McGuffins.

The truck was a minor McGuffin (a comical one), but Jack Burton cared about his truck. Which is all that matters.

If you like Jack Burton (and how could you not?), then you want him to have his truck back.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (/FnUH)

141 Well put, Ace.

Related: We are sooooo fucked.

Posted by: Andy at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (qZRAa)

142 Beyond that, I think the only reason your point applies is because the Obama worshipers are a freaking cult.



Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (bb5+k)

143 55 So, in "The Avengers," is it wrong that I was totally rooting for Loki to hold onto the MacGuffin (tesseract) and win? Because the Avengers themselves are so WHINY.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:04 PM (4df7R)


I like the actor.

Posted by: Dr. Jesse Pinkman at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (kkbgQ)

144 MacGuffins aside, this Obama movie sucks ass.

Posted by: MacGruber at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (sWgE+)

145 125 What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy?


Say. My. Name.

Posted by: Zombie Walter White at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (7ObY1)

146 How, exactly, did Indy get off the Nazi Island with the Ark?

How did Indy ride the sub that whole voyage?

Also, what would have happened to the Ark if Indy didn't exist? It'd be sitting on that island maybe? Or would Hitler have people retrieve it and gone melty like everyone else?

Also, what happens in 200 years when a US archivist decides that hey, that box that I don't know the contents of doesn't exist on my register. Let's open it.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (sByIH)

147 I will try to edit it some now.

Does this mean we have to start editing our comments? Look, I like you Ace, but if you actually expect us to start using proper grammer and spelling words correctly, I am out of here.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (OWjjx)

148 It's why people love chase scenes. Hero's motivation is very clear -- not die.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (ZPrif)

I'm in the minority. I hate chase scenes.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (m2CN7)

149 great post, Ace. depresses the hell out of me, but very well put.

Posted by: the Butcher at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (8g9qq)

150 Look at the "binders full of women" outrage meme the left went on about during the last election. They made that a thing to be outraged about, that Romney had whole notebooks full of the names of qualified women.

OMG! How dare he reduce women to a list of women who are competent to do the job!

It's not like the noble left, who reduce women to walking vaginas (both metaphorically and literally).

Posted by: elaine at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (GNZ0/)

151 Yeah, history is going to be exceedingly kind to Obama.
You're grandchildren are probably gonna live on Barack Obama Blvd and go to Barack Obama High and celebrate Barack Obama day (formerly President's Day) and tip their Android Strippers with a $100 ObamaBucks.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (ZPrif)

152 62
Great piece, Ace.



And I always thought the Biden dialogue was a bit on the nose with
the, "This is a big, fucking deal." line. What happened to show, don't
tell?



Hopefully we're still in draft.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:05 PM (ZPrif)

A nice companion is Hillary's, "At this point, what difference does it make?"

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (Kkt/i)

153
113 Oh great, we got Sydney Greenstreet on our side.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:12 PM (iGP6J)




Oh shit.....you're right. Hopefully Hillary's extreme unlikeablity will sink her.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (fsLdt)

154 You know what pisses me off about movies?

Remo Williams: the Adventure Begins

THERE WAS ONLY ONE FREAKING MOVIE HOW WAS IT A BEGINNING?

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:19 PM (oXeuc)

155 This really isn't even hero worship.

This is a religion.

Obama never makes mistakes .. these are meant to be that way.
You just don't understand yet.

Posted by: Jimmy Swaggart at December 06, 2013 03:19 PM (e8kgV)

156 Know what else Hitchcock used to say? "It's only a movie."

As a couple of people have noted, to get to true McGuffinism, you have to care about the fate of the nation, and life in general, only as much as a movie plot.

Movie-thinkers are amused that the rest of us could give a shit about anything.
No offense meant to actual film-craftsmen who toil in that vineyard and post here.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at December 06, 2013 03:19 PM (xq1UY)

157
Also, what would have happened to the Ark if Indy didn't exist? It'd be sitting on that island maybe? Or would Hitler have people retrieve it and gone melty like everyone else?

-------------

Hell, good points. Basically, nothing Indy did in that whole movie made a damned bit of difference in the end.

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 06, 2013 03:19 PM (PFy0L)

158 I can't stand the sob's....any of 'em.

Posted by: BignJames at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (j7iSn)

159 How did Indy ride the sub that whole voyage?

The Nazis never bothered to submerge which makes no frickin' sense!


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (GQ8sn)

160 There's also the desire for novelty.
Rooting for the bad guy became popular because it was a new twist, a new way to tell a story, cause a half century of TV and movies used up so much of the traditional good guy stories.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (ZPrif)

161 Alright Ace, has does the MacGuffin Theory work for a movie like Castaway?

The MacGuffin is Hanks' life and both he and the elements are vying for it?

Posted by: BCochran1981 -


Not all movies have to have one, and I'd certain say that a protag's life is a lot more important to be called a plot device.

If you have to have one for Castaway it'd prolly be the raft. It's a device to further the plot; it bridges the turning point ( the tree and the rope ) to the journey back.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (uCNam)

162
Really great stuff, Ace.

You wonder if what we've lost is not the ability to think or talk about policy per se, but the ability to think at all, period. We are so awash in narratives, stories, celebrities, hype, movies, TV shows, etc., that we literally can't get back outside the frame of the Hero-Villain arc that every story has to be jammed into.

Obamacare and birth control is a perfect example. The birth control is exactly what Ace says, a MacGuffin... no one seriously believes that anyone lacks access to inexpensive birth control and could easily pay for it themselves. Nevertheless we have to have heroines (Sandra Fluke) threatened by evil villains (the Catholic Church)... we have to have a "War on Women."

Posted by: The Regular Guy at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (qHCyt)

163 I had my fill of disaster movies in the late 70s with Carter.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (VndSC)

164 Brilliant take, Ace. This is an phenomenon I've long recognized, but have struggled to describe/ conceptualize. You nailed it.

Posted by: lael at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (j4QK7)

165 It didn't matter what Ace was explaining 20 times, we were just rooting for him to move on to the next point. <<<<<< Gets it.

Posted by: Roland THTG at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (QM5S2)

166 I had an ex girlfriend who called her vajajay a MacGuffin. Everybody wanted it.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (m2CN7)

167
I liked the shower scene in Porky's because you got to see so many elbows and macguffins.

Posted by: garrett at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (Ovu5k)

168
I'm in the minority. I hate chase scenes.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (m2CN7)


I've gotten to the point more and more lately where I find it difficult to enjoy movies. The suspension of disbelief simply gets harder every year, especially with all the propaganda pumped into American Movies.


Foreign movies just seem more satisfying nowadays.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (bb5+k)

169 Also, what happens in 200 years when a US archivist decides that hey, that box that I don't know the contents of doesn't exist on my register. Let's open it.

---

I kinda doubt that they'll be letting someone into Area 51 / Warehouse 13 / the Cigarette Smoking Man's secret room to do archiving.

Even if they did get in there, I figure they die messily long before they find the Ark.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (/Crba)

170 Excellent.

And the grievance/identity politics swath of "academia" exists to attempt to put skin and bones on the political McGuffins of the democrats in the Real World. Clapping for Tinkerbell is so much more meaningful when you know, deep down, that the story is real .

No one has come up to Obama and said that their child's tumor was only discovered because of his legislative feats. And if they had, wouldn't the only question be why he delayed the implementation of life-saving legislation until after the 2010 midterms?

Posted by: TexasDan at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (Fa3Hi)

171
Excellent post.

And I agree that obama: the socialist movie and obama II: the condescending marxist movie both get a double thumbs down. or down twinkles if you will.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 06, 2013 03:21 PM (caCiW)

172 You rubes just don't have the "Gnosis"

Posted by: Jimmy Swaggart at December 06, 2013 03:21 PM (e8kgV)

173 LOL, it is a movie review.


Posted by: Jimbo at December 06, 2013 03:21 PM (V70Uh)

174 Does he even admit of the possibility that for every parent who'll be
able to say that, there might be ten who'd say, "My kid is dead because
you fucked with our insurance just when we happened to need it most, and
we couldn't see the doctor who just might have helped him"?


If we had an opposition party or a free press they'd be finding these victims.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:21 PM (DL2i+)

175 Nice work, Ace!

Posted by: mrp at December 06, 2013 03:21 PM (HjPtV)

176 I saw Martha and the MacGuffins open for The Plasmatics in 82!

Posted by: garrett at December 06, 2013 03:21 PM (Ovu5k)

177 I don't think I care about Indy Jones' MacGuffin and can't watch the movies anymore because Harrison Ford is such a dick.

I'd kinda like to see the Nazis kick his ass

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 06, 2013 03:21 PM (cGaCp)

178 In a sane universe, this is the lead editorial in every major newspaper.

Awesome analysis, ace!

Posted by: noone, really at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (5ikDv)

179 >>>119

It was just the minimum regulated level of shit that needs to be given to you before giving you credit, dude. Incredible article, and it's something I've pondered before but never been able to parse the way you have.

Posted by: YourPoopyPants at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (Y/HG5)

180
Remo Williams: the Adventure Begins

THERE WAS ONLY ONE FREAKING MOVIE HOW WAS IT A BEGINNING?

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:19 PM (oXeuc)


I liked that movie quite a lot. Apparently the rest of the potential audience didn't.

I'm sure that the producers hoped it would have been a beginning.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (bb5+k)

181 What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy? Yea, he runs drugs and gets innocent people hurt or killed but he's sooo cool! Because he shows a redeeming quality once and a while and the viewer sees either a bit of themselves or just feels better because they at least aren't that guy.
Posted by: Minnfidel at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (5M2+1)

This shit drives me insane. I won't watch it. Sopranos, Sons of Anarchy etc

Posted by: The Jackhole at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (nTgAI)

182 Matthews, David Corn and Howard Fineman? All three would let the President sodomize them if he asked (and wouldn't complain if he didn't). One quibble about the Raiders analogy-Indy wasn't a f*** up and failure

Posted by: ejo at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (GXvSO)

183 Except in this case the MacGuffin of Obamacare is something that is damaging real live people by the millions.

Reading that summary, and agreeing with it completely, the only emotion I felt was unbridled rage.

Those cocksuckers are fawning over their hero as he works to destroy my family specifically. I can't take it. You know that rage you feel as a cold wave over your entire body? Yeah. I have that now.

Posted by: Lauren at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (hFL/3)

184 People as means and objects, not ends and...well, people. Par for the course, for that crew, all that ever changes is the scale.

As a side point, one of the finest lampshadings of the McGuffin was in the DeNiro film Ronin, where the action centered around a briefcase containing...well, nobody knew, and it kept being a running thread to the very end, when the protagonist admitted (a) he didn't know, and (b) it didn't matter.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (naUcP)

185 "To destroy the bugs we must understand the bugs"

Posted by: General lady from Starship Troopers at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (92zVn)

186 All Hail ... the "Gnostic" sectarian sects
The Church of the "IV League"

Posted by: Jimmy Swaggart at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (e8kgV)

187 okay I've trimmed a little of the repetition.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (/FnUH)

188 I had a coupla Egg MacGuffins for breakfast this morning.

I figured I earned them after last night's MMA class.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (7ObY1)

189 American politics is my movie, and you're just all props and extras.

Get used to it, serfs.

Posted by: Barrackankamen I at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (pginn)

190 I got your Spear of Destiny right here.

Posted by: gp at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (+Jpqc)

191 From a previous thread, but I wanted to get this in:

"What I find fishy that they're being so lax - especially with the Obamacare site that has *no* security. That doesn't just happen, that was a conscious decision, and it makes me wonder why."

Remember the Obama campaign website with no security on credit card transactions, so foreigners could illegally donate with no checking? The first thing that comes to my mind with this regime and Obamacare is money laundering.

Posted by: whoever at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (zu9Ee)

192 185 "To destroy the bugs we must understand the bugs"

---

IT'S AFRAID~!

Posted by: SS Colonel Doogie Howser at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (/Crba)

193 Did the movie The Neverending Story have a MacGuffin? I never watched it because I didn't think I would have the time.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (m2CN7)

194
When Matthews swooned over Obama, the word that came to mind was Gilroy, not MacGuffin.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (VndSC)

195
Barky is not even the MacGuffin.
It's the whole First Ever Black Presiden of the USA.
'They' can't allow him to be seem to fail.

Posted by: Roland THTG at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (QM5S2)

196 Nice piece, Ace.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (pj6Nr)

197 and tip their Android Strippers with a $100 ObamaBucks.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:18 PM (ZPrif)


Well, his face was featured on money in the remake of "Total Recall."

Given that it was a totalitarian dystopia, I'm not sure I can fault this bit of movie prediction.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:24 PM (bb5+k)

198 So when do we finally get the pitchforks and tar?

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at December 06, 2013 03:24 PM (pginn)

199
So the take away for the GOP is either (1) hang in there and give up the idea of winning, or (2) start collecting, building, and communicating stories that can only logically (sic) be solved by conservative policy.

What candidate or public official has gone to bat for the guy who says"My kid is dead because you **** with our insurance just when we happened to need it most, and we couldn't see the doctor who just might have helped him"

What candidate or public official has gone to bat for the guy in Nebraska who can't get a job at the packing plant (you know who I mean) because the mean old meat packer is hiring people who are not citizens, not here legally, and send their paychecks back to Mexico instead of spending it inthe community where the furniture store is going out of business?

Posted by: P Mike at December 06, 2013 03:24 PM (R9qZf)

200 What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy?

It's a long running trend.

I mean, who actually rooted for the Road Runner?

Posted by: Ian S. at December 06, 2013 03:24 PM (B/VB5)

201 I posted this in the Matthews thread below - the point is made better above:

Thanks for watching Chris Matthews so I don't have to.

This is actually useful information. It has been hard for me to fathom how the left could attribute every disagreement with Obama as racism - other than through knowing bad faith.

This sheds some light on it and it goes to the old saw that we think they're wrong; they think we're evil. In the Chris Matthews/leftist view, Obama is our Mandela. The oppressive right therefore has a duty to lay down, renounce "our" past actions and celebrate the breakthrough.

We see Obama as a man, a President that is doing things contrary to the good of the county who must be opposed on policy grounds. They see us as opposing their symbol of all that is good.

Posted by: Duke at December 06, 2013 03:24 PM (d3clc)

202 >>>I liked that movie quite a lot. Apparently the rest of the potential audience didn't.


i liked it too. It was an odd movie, and I was always questioning the choices they made, but I still liked it.

Dick Clarke produced that. I just remember seeing his name in the credits and thinking "how weird."

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:24 PM (/FnUH)

203 ...does the MacGuffin Theory work for a movie like Castaway?

----

I don't think every movie has a MacGuffin. In this one, since it's a true story, the audience and the hero both care about the character surviving his ordeal. We care not just because we like him, but because we would want pretty much anyone to survive.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone but Likes This Post at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (r1ruo)

204 Also Matthews and Fineman are still sitting in the audience eating popcorn, watching Obama break stuff. It's not their stuff. They don't care.

The audience (American public) is now in the movie. Obama is breaking their stuff. They care. They HAVE to care.

Posted by: Barky Oblowme at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (D2zE2)

205 Remember this chestnut from summer 2012?

Obama reflects on his biggest mistake as President
CBS News: http://tinyurl.com/m6rg3ll


(CBS News) President Obama's biggest mistake during his first term, he told CBS News in an exclusive interview, has been putting policy over storytelling.

Mr. Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama sat down Thursday with "CBS This Morning" anchor Charlie Rose in the White House Blue Room, where they discussed the failures and successes of his administration as he heads into another election, among other things.

"When I think about what we've done well and what we haven't done well," the president said, "the mistake of my first term - couple of years - was thinking that this job was just about getting the policy right. And that's important. But the nature of this office is also to tell a story to the American people that gives them a sense of unity and purpose and optimism, especially during tough times."



It's all about the story, and always has been. Every time I remember this interview, I get livid. Telling people fairytales to make them feel better accomplishes nothing. It's patronizing and degrading. And it's Obammy's go-to strategy.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (4df7R)

206 I love it when MacGuffin says, "Take a bite outta crime."

Posted by: Joe Biden at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (bvtgt)

207
I've gotten to the point more and more lately where I find it
difficult to enjoy movies. The suspension of disbelief simply gets
harder every year, especially with all the propaganda pumped into
American Movies.





Foreign movies just seem more satisfying nowadays.



Here's an indie movie I saw recently and enjoyed, "The Way". It stars father and son, Martin Sheen and Emilio Estevez.

It's about the El Camino de Santiago pilgrimage in Spain. Sheen stars as the dad who goes to France to retrieve the body of his son (Estevez) who died on the first day of his 800km walk due to bad weather. Sheen's character isn't religious, but his son was sort of hippie-ish and wanted to travel around the world experiencing people and cultures. Sheen decides to complete the pilgrimage himself as a final homage to his son and leaves little bits of his son's cremated remains along the way to mark his passage that he never got to complete.

Now my wife wants to do it.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (GQ8sn)

208 White Castle is a MacGuffin

One Eyed Willie's treasure is a MacGuffin

Killing the head vampire in Santa Carla, California is a MacGuffin

The All Valley High School Karate Tournament trophy is a MacGuffin

It all makes so much sense now.

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (oXeuc)

209
The Nazis never bothered to submerge which makes no frickin' sense!


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:20 PM (GQ8sn)


Sure it does. In a Diesel sub, you only submerge when you need to. The rest of the time you travel in a surfaced condition.


You get better speed, and use less fuel.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (bb5+k)

210 Yeah, the media doesn't report how Obama's policies are destroying the country...but instead focuses on what he does affects his personal approval ratings

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (cGaCp)

211 Or Frodo failing to throw The One Ring into Mount Doom! It would be a devastating blow to the audience that's followed their Hero's story! You can't DO that to the Hero. They have to succeed! Against all odds, regardless of what happens, they have to succeed!

It's sickening. Beyond reason.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (4df7R)



Ahem. Technically, Frodo doesn't throw The One Ring into Mount Doom.


Also you missed me being banninated earlier.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (VtjlW)

212 Don't subs go faster when they don't submerge?

The war hadn't started yet so there was no need to.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (fsLdt)

213 McGuffin....the crime committing dog.

Posted by: BignJames at December 06, 2013 03:26 PM (j7iSn)

214 Piss Matthews Hardball is a parody right? Just askin cause hell it can't be reality.

Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at December 06, 2013 03:26 PM (fO/rU)

215 >>>As a side point, one of the finest lampshadings of the McGuffin was in the DeNiro film Ronin, where the action centered around a briefcase containing...well, nobody knew, and it kept being a running thread to the very end, when the protagonist admitted (a) he didn't know, and (b) it didn't matter.

yeah that was another one. There was, as people are pointing out, a brief vogue of Lampshading The Basic Irrelevance of the MacGuffin in the 80s and 90s.

In Repo Man, did they ever really explain what the hell was in the trunk of the car?

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:26 PM (/FnUH)

216
Amy Farrah Fowler needs to weigh in...

Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:26 PM (kkbgQ)

217 Hey man, I heard a rumor that McGuffin was going to open up for Hillary's Hairy Snatch at Lilith Fair in 2016.

Posted by: Havedash at December 06, 2013 03:26 PM (SIR+t)

218 This shit drives me insane. I won't watch it. Sopranos,


The main lesson to be learned from The Sopranos was that change is hard, and most people take the easy way out of every situation, and that this has dire consequences. Very dire.

To give another example, Breaking Bad, it was a 5-year long treatise on good and evil. And evil most definitely did not come out as the better alternative.

These programs don't glamorize crime. But since you don't watch them, I guess you wouldn't know.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (7ObY1)

219 The MacGuffin in Castaway was the stupid package with the angel wings on it.

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (3ZtZW)

220 It's leg humping turtles MacGuffins all the way down.

Posted by: Roland THTG at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (QM5S2)

221 Watching Chris Matthews interview Obama, I was struck by just how
uninterested in policy questions Matthews (and his panel) were, and how
almost every question seemed to be, at heart, about Obama's emotional
response to difficulties-- not about policy itself, but about Obama's
Hero's Journey in navigating the plot of President Barack Obama: The Movie.



That insight is really quite profound and represents a hugely important piece of the puzzle for anyone trying to construct a Unified Field Theory that explains Leftard behavior that, on the surface, appears inexplicable. Thank you Ace. Not bad at all for an Ewok.

I think this helps to explain why people on the Left are so completely obsessed by political personalities and are so oblivious to the creepiness quotient that its Tiger Beat manifestations suggest to normal people.

Posted by: Chris Matthews at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (8ZskC)

222 On second thought, Castaway's Mac is the package he does not open, the one with the angel logo.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (uCNam)

223 Very nice, Ace.

Sadly, with the Popcorn Protection and Affordable Candy Act (Obamacandy), Banana Walrus Wafers are going for 12 bucks a box.

Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (7zeA4)

224 Exactly, to the Left we literally are the evil Nazis trying to kill Indy.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (ZPrif)

225
It's about the El Camino de Santiago pilgrimage in Spain. Sheen stars as the dad who goes to France to retrieve the body of his son (Estevez) who died on the first day of his 800km walk due to bad weather. Sheen's character isn't religious, but his son was sort of hippie-ish and wanted to travel around the world experiencing people and cultures. Sheen decides to complete the pilgrimage himself as a final homage to his son and leaves little bits of his son's cremated remains along the way to mark his passage that he never got to complete.Now my wife wants to do it.

------------

Does that mean you're going to be cremated?

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (PFy0L)

226 Every hot chick's muffin is a MacGuffin.

Posted by: garrett at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (Ovu5k)

227 >>In Repo Man, did they ever really explain what the hell was in the trunk of the car?

Nope. Other than it turned the car into some sort of spaceship.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 06, 2013 03:28 PM (g1DWB)

228 Fat, drunk sock. Begone.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 06, 2013 03:28 PM (8ZskC)

229 The car was a MCGUFFIN in Dude Where's My CAR.

Posted by: elevenwing plover at December 06, 2013 03:28 PM (fsLdt)

230 IT'S AFRAID~!

Posted by: SS Colonel Doogie Howser


Why did they have to make it so NAZI? Bloody hell they were heavy-handed with that crap.

Also didn't appreciate the Ft Joe Smith shot.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:28 PM (sByIH)

231 You know what pisses me off about movies?

Remo Williams: the Adventure Begins

THERE WAS ONLY ONE FREAKING MOVIE HOW WAS IT A BEGINNING?
Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:19 PM (oXeuc)


Or Buckaroo Banzai, announcing the sequel in the credits. I predict the Marvel movie train is going to go off the rails in the same way, someday.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 06, 2013 03:28 PM (Fa3Hi)

232 I read the script for "Repo Man" (my cousin was selling scripts at the time) and there was a little comic strip at the front of it that seemed to suggest (IIRC) that the trunk contained some sort of alien power source. (Not just radioactive material but a genuine alien artifact.)

Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 03:28 PM (7zeA4)

233 Tug MacGuffin had a hell of a screwball.

Posted by: Roland THTG at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (QM5S2)

234 Sometimes the MacGuffin can be used against the hero.

For example Anakin. Ripped away from his mother and treated like a step child by the Jedi order whom he thought would help him. Then to find out his mother gets killed by Sand People. So he never wanted to see that happen again, so Palpatine played him like a 10 credit Twi'lek dancer. So *boom* Darth Vader.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (iGP6J)

235 >>>I don't think every movie has a MacGuffin.


it's one of those things where you can stretch the definition of "MacGuffin" to cover every movie, but you have to indulge in a lot of contrivance to do so, so it's easier to just say "Not every movie has a classic McGuffin."

An awful lot do, though. Most genre movies do. It's pretty much a defining element of a genre movie that there'll be a MacGuffin, because genre movies usually offer a simple conflict of Good Guy and Bad Guy, and they need a simple explanation for that simple conflict.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (/FnUH)

236 193 Did the movie The Neverending Story have a MacGuffin? I never watched it because I didn't think I would have the time.


I'd let you know, but I'm still watching it.

Posted by: Guy Who's Been Watching Neverending Story Since 1984 at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (7ObY1)

237
Now... What was the MacGuffin in Love Story?

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (3ZtZW)

238 MacGuffin was the fifth cast member of Seinfeld.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (VndSC)

239 Does that mean you're going to be cremated?

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (PFy0L)

Hope not! I told her she can go do it if she wants, but we're going to watch "Taken" first.

Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (GQ8sn)

240 211 Or Frodo failing to throw The One Ring into Mount Doom! It would be a devastating blow to the audience that's followed their Hero's story! You can't DO that to the Hero. They have to succeed! Against all odds, regardless of what happens, they have to succeed!

It's sickening. Beyond reason.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (4df7R)


Ahem. Technically, Frodo doesn't throw The One Ring into Mount Doom.


Also you missed me being banninated earlier.

---

What's this about Frito Bugger, nephew of Dildo Bugger?

Posted by: National Lampoon at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (/Crba)

241 This perfectly describes the attitude of the entire MFM during the passage of Obamacare. They're all rending garments now with articles and columns about why they missed all these possible problems in this law which are now all too real for millions. Well, it was just a MacGuffin to them. They did not care at all what was in that bill. All they cared about was whether Hero Obama would win it. They had the same attitude during the shutdown fight, there was no way Republicans were ever going to be heard about the actual, real, problems with Obamacare because all the press cared about was that Hero Obama Already Won This And We're Not Letting Those Horrible Villain Republicans Take It Away From Him.

Posted by: rockmom at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (Q4elb)

242 194
When Matthews swooned over Obama, the word that came to mind was Gilroy, not MacGuffin.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (VndSC)


I read your message too quickly. My initial interpretation was that you said "gloryhole".


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:29 PM (bb5+k)

243 Transporter. The MacGuffin is the chick.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (VtjlW)

244 This post puts in words a vague idea I've had floating around in my head for a long time: that for some (idiots) it seems to be "our team versus their team" only. The MacGuffin angle really brings that out. Very well done.

Posted by: rdbrewer at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (Iyg03)

245 I will try to edit it some now.


You don't need to bother just for us morons.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (DL2i+)

246
The MacGuffin in Castaway was the stupid package with the angel wings on it.

----------

I think that was the character's MacGuffin, but not the story's MacGuffin. Hanks' goal was to get off the island to deliver that package. What was in it was not important to him...just having the goal was.

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (PFy0L)

247 There is no MacGuffin in Castaway.
The idea of the MacGuffin is it's the thing that motivates the action -- usually of both the Hero and the Villain.

In Castaway he's just trying to survive and get back home. That's it. Motivation is very clear. Very primal.

Tons of movies have the Get Back Home motivation.

Motivation is key in drama. MacGuffins are just one tool give characters motivation. Not every movie has or needs one.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (ZPrif)

248 >>>I read the script for "Repo Man" (my cousin was selling scripts at the time) and there was a little comic strip at the front of it that seemed to suggest (IIRC) that the trunk contained some sort of alien power source. (Not just radioactive material but a genuine alien artifact.)

well that's the impression I got anyway... I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed in the movie. Certainly it was suggested.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (/FnUH)

249 >>Look at the "binders full of women" outrage meme the left went on about during the last election. They made that a thing to be outraged about, that Romney had whole notebooks full of the names of qualified women.

I'm pissed off anew over that after what Biden said in Japan.

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (SUKHu)

250 As Thomas Jefferson said (I think), "I am sorry to
have written you such a long letter; I did not have time to write a
shorter one."





Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (/FnUH)
*modest cough* that was me.

Posted by: Blaise Pascal at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (whMsz)

251 Funny how none of this mattered when Mr. Bush was president. How every issue was about his alleged buffoonery or incompetence.

This posture about Mr. Obama is not surprising at all. Look how he was elected, foisted upon the shoulders of his fans like some winning athlete- all while being fed grapes by the media. It had the air of a campaign for prom queen or finding the next American idol. It possessed very little of the serious, introspective analysis or consideration normally afforded such an important election.

What should scare people is that Mr. Obama was an empty vessel into which liberals projected their hopes and dreams. They used that gratuitous, undeserved flattery combined with an implied appeal to assuage "racial guilt" to get him elected, and despite the obvious destruction, got him elected twice.

That can happen again. People were already fooled twice and they can't wait to vote for the next winner of Dancing with the Stars. Despite the fact they've lost their jobs, ability to provide for their families, standard of living, health care or personal safety.

Posted by: Marcus at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (GGCsk)

252
Also, I must add:

IF the GOP are the Villains in this dumbass movie WE need a fkn awesome LAIR. Guarded by sharks with fricken lasers

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (3ZtZW)

253 Piss Matthews in Highball...

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (9jfyN)

254 I reviewed the Emilio Estevez/Martin Sheen flick "The Way" here:

http://bitmaelstrom.blogspot.com/2011/11/way-of-all-estevezes.html

Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (7zeA4)

255 Barky is not even the MacGuffin.
It's the whole First Ever Black Presiden of the USA.
'They' can't allow him to be seem to fail.

Posted by: Roland THTG at December 06, 2013 03:23 PM (QM5S2)

Well if they didn't want him to fail, they should have picked a non-Democrat black President.


Allen West would seem the obvious choice to me.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (bb5+k)

256 Gosh, it really is a mad mad mad world after all.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (TOk1P)

257 MacGuffins; Carpeted or Bare Wood?

Posted by: The debate continues at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (QupBk)

258 The MacGuffin is wanted by both the Hero and the Villain but for totally different reasons. That is the key.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (m2CN7)

259 I'm pissed off anew over that after what Biden said in Japan.

---

Did he ask the Emperor for flied lice?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (/Crba)

260 AtC got banned?

Lol

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (da5Wo)

261 Yeah I liked Remo Williams a lot that's why it pisses me off.

Almost like the to be continued at the end of Back to the Future that took a decade to make. Like when the hell is this movie going to be continued I want to see more.

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 06, 2013 03:32 PM (oXeuc)

262 Nicely framed, ace.
-
Good piece of writing. Now I realize I didn't give a crap about the Ark itself at all. I suppose I shall have to rewatch all the movies I've seen in light of this post.

-

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 06, 2013 03:32 PM (NQyj0)

263 Long and well worth the read. Great job of analysis, Ace.

Posted by: Sunny at December 06, 2013 03:32 PM (Xnxty)

264 test

Posted by: test at December 06, 2013 03:32 PM (0cMkb)

265 I have to get the Omega 13!

Posted by: Zombie Robin Sachs at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (sByIH)

266 Movies often have many motivations in the course of the story that work on different levels.
MacGuffins are typical the over-arching motivation, the why is this story being told motivation.
In Indy movies, Indy has tons of other motivations, usually basic and primal and easy to understand like survival and love and friendship.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (ZPrif)

267 Are there MacGuffins in porn?

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (cGaCp)

268 AtC got banned?

Lol
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (da5Wo)



I thought you would like that.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (VtjlW)

269 As you say, Ace, it doesn't really matter.

I was a fairly literate kid when RotLA came out, but I didn't =really= know what "the Ark" was. (And still don't know why it would melt Nazi faces.)

Kid director Joe Camp ("Benji") directed a cute movie with Lisa Whelchel in her prime called "The Double McGuffin".

Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (7zeA4)

270
>>>Good piece of writing. Now I realize I didn't give a crap about the Ark itself at all.<<<



That's what makes that Top. Men. ending scene so correct. It didn't matter.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (VndSC)

271 247 Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (ZPrif)

One could make the argument that the Angel Package represented his struggle to maintain his identity in surviving....

but yeah of course Castaway is hardly an action movie it is a character study/romance.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (9jfyN)

272 The MacGuffin is wanted by both the Hero and the Villain but for totally different reasons. That is the key.
Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (m2CN7)

The Sorceror's Stone in the first Harry Potter.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (DrWcr)

273
i liked it too. It was an odd movie, and I was always questioning the choices they made, but I still liked it.

Dick Clarke produced that. I just remember seeing his name in the credits and thinking "how weird."

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:24 PM (/FnUH)


Didn't know that.


I still remember the 11th Commandant.


"Thou shalt not get away with it."


And I thereafter thought we really need to adhere to that one.





Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (bb5+k)

274
>>Are there MacGuffins in porn?<<



They're called the money shot instead.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:34 PM (VndSC)

275 I did not finish that thought. The hero or villian merely identifies whether the purpose of the MacGuffin is to be used for good or evil. Many movies have a villain become the hero because he retrieves the MacGuffin to be used for good or prevents the other villains from getting it to be used for evil.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:34 PM (m2CN7)

276 181 What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy? Yea, he runs drugs and gets innocent people hurt or killed but he's sooo cool! Because he shows a redeeming quality once and a while and the viewer sees either a bit of themselves or just feels better because they at least aren't that guy.
Posted by: Minnfidel at December 06, 2013 03:14 PM (5M2+1)

This shit drives me insane. I won't watch it. Sopranos, Sons of Anarchy etc
Posted by: The Jackhole at December 06, 2013 03:22 PM (nTgAI)


But who roots for them except people who are psychos? I watch those shows but I hate the characters. I especially hate SOA - they are all evil. And even my namesake did horrible inexcusable things including murder.They should all die.

ps: You forgot Boardwalk Empire - they are all bad people too, including Richard.

Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:34 PM (kkbgQ)

277 sorry about that, but it's hard to write longer pieces during the news day, as people expect a post at least once an hour.


Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (/FnUH)

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!?

Posted by: cajun caret at December 06, 2013 03:35 PM (UZQM8)

278 Jesus Christ, what a shameless fucking liar.

And
Matthews and co. are grade A morons to believe a word of it. I don't
even mean that pejoratively. I mean that they are fucking stupid.


Posted by: dawnfire82 at December 06, 2013 03:10 PM (1/hzQ)

They dont believe it , they play their part.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 06, 2013 03:35 PM (AWmfW)

279 I can use this thread for a semester credit in Cinema.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 03:35 PM (VndSC)

280 Is the baby in Raising Arizona properly considereda MacGuffin?

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (DrWcr)

281 The Media tells the story.

In the Bush years the story was about Bush the Fool who Usurped the Throne due to the machinations of his Evil, Wicked Wizard Cheney and how the People Longed for the True King to reclaim his Crown.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (ZPrif)

282 Ahem. Technically, Frodo doesn't throw The One Ring into Mount Doom. Also you missed me being banninated earlier.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (VtjlW)


Ah, but you see, he DOES throw it into Mount Doom. He doesn't do it willingly, but It Was Fate. It Was Fate that Frodo would get it to the precipice, and It Was Fate that Gollum would steal it, and It Was Fate that Frodo would have to make a sacrifice (his finger) to retain his humanity (err... hobbitanity?). You know It Was Fate because when Sam has to rescue him, it's Frodo he rescues, not some hollowed out husk like Gollum or a sneering jerk like Isildur.

(Oh, and by the way, Mister Pissy Pants Elrond: it's pretty rich you being all "Men are Weak" because Isildur wasn't strong enough to destroy The One Ring when he had the chance. Well who was standing RIGHT THE FUCK THERE on the edge of the chasm, huh? Who could have rushed up behind Isildur and hacked his hand off and kicked it into the lava? Or kicked ISILDUR into the lava, and spared Middle-Earth from so much destruction? Huh? HUH???

Pfft! You might be hot, Elrond, but humble? Not a chance.)

And our AtC was banninated? Why!?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (4df7R)

283 276 Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:34 PM (kkbgQ)

Bill Clinton was elected because he largely gave America permission to be fuck ups....


Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (9jfyN)

284 As Thomas Jefferson said (I think)

I like it when he quotes from "Shit Jefferson Said, Vol 3"

Posted by: Jay in Ames at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (i2Lsf)

285 Remo Williams: the Adventure Begins



THERE WAS ONLY ONE FREAKING MOVIE HOW WAS IT A BEGINNING?


They're upto #145 Dragon Bones

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (DL2i+)

286 Ace, you've been on a roll lately, nice work.

Posted by: Meremortal,, at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (1Y+hH)

287 Pre-WWII U-boats were not fitted with schnorkel. In fact the schnorkel was a Dutch invention that the Germans incorporated into their designs after overrunning Holland.

So for best speed the U-boat would have to run on the surface. And we are talking the Mediterranean which is not a terribly large body of water. Though I would expect the Royal Navy to get in a rather frightful snit if one of their cruiser launched Walrus seaplanes spotted a U-boat in the Med.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (iGP6J)

288 I reviewed the Emilio Estevez/Martin Sheen flick "The Way" here:



http://bitmaelstrom.blogspot.com/2011/11/way-of-all-estevezes.html





Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 03:31 PM (7zeA4)


Thanks! I liked it!

Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (GQ8sn)

289
What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy?

-----------

I dunno - I think there's some neat things in antihero stories. Dirty Harry is a bit of a "bad guy" but we like him since we can live vicariously through him. To me that's the allure of the antihero.

Posted by: @JohnTant at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (PFy0L)

290 These mofo's made Obama their 'hero'....they're going to do everything in their power to make sure the 'hero' they made looks good....or else they look like idiots.


Of course it's about Obama but a large part of it is about them. Their egos are as big as their supposed hero.

Posted by: Tami at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (bCEmE)

291
Now my wife wants to do it.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (GQ8sn)


If you can afford it, Follow your heart. (Or that of your wife's. )


(I'm assuming you aren't including the part about sprinkling the ashes of your dead son. If that IS the case, then I am very sorry for your loss.)

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (bb5+k)

292 @159 The Nazis never bothered to submerge which makes no frickin' sense!
------------------

It does, actually. Subs back then (not sure about today) got better speed on the surface than they did underwater. And since the war hadn't started yet, no one was hunting them. So best speed to the Nazi sub base would have required the sub to stay on the surface.

Though this is likely all just a happy coincidence as far as the intent of the scriptwriters is concerned...

Posted by: junior at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (UWFpX)

293 Remo Williams was awesome.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (ZPrif)

294
>>>Because he was uninsured, he got insurance, got a check up and we caught a tumor in time.<<<


Ummm.....those "insurance" policies haven't kicked in yet - how did that hypothetical kid get in to see a doctor yet?

And how much of a co-payment/deductible did that check-up cost his family?

Did anyone bother to tell Barky how incredibly rare childhood cancers are in the first place? Sad when they happen, to be sure, but the chances of a child being diagnosed with a tumor on his first doctor's visit is infinitesimally less than hismom and dad losing their house because they can't afford to pay an insurance premium and a deductible.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at December 06, 2013 03:38 PM (PZ6/M)

295 Shane. Come back!

Posted by: that kid in the movie that yells Shane, come back! at December 06, 2013 03:38 PM (VndSC)

296 I thought you would like that.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 03:33 PM (VtjlW)



Here's one for you. The dance recital thing? I got moved. I'm now front and center.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 06, 2013 03:38 PM (da5Wo)

297 What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy?

Dean Norris (played Hank Schraeder on Breaking Bad) was on Twitter ripping and tearing the Walter White fans who were rooting for him to succeed at the end of the series.

Called em psychos and etc.

Posted by: Zombie Robin Sachs at December 06, 2013 03:38 PM (sByIH)

298 Don't forget The West Wing, they really believe that's how the Presidency _should_ be.

And that's how they can hate us so much--we are villains.

Remember how in the old movies, the death of a bad guy was rarely shown?
Now, we are supposed to cheer and clap when the latest Hero blasts a bad guy through the wall with a shotgun.

See? They're bad guys and our perspective has already convicted them of their crimes.

And that's the silly thing they've carried into the real world--If the Hero says Person X is a bad guy, that's all you need to know. No need to consider that there are valid, honest, real and thoughtful reasons for my position.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (VjL9S)

299 Trying to think of a movie MacGuffin that really made a difference--that wasn't fungible.

Can anyone think of a movie where the MacGuffin was awesome, meaningful, and/or made the movie? Like Ace says, in Repo Man or Pulp Fiction, f/x, it was just a glow or an effect. Likewise, there was nothing special about the Shankara Stones.

I can't think of one.

You'd probably have to get away from objects and into cool concepts to find one.

Posted by: rdbrewer at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (Iyg03)

300 My favorite movie MacGuffin is $70,000 in the movie Payback.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (m2CN7)

301 Human consume stories at an astonishing rate since mass media.
People got bored of Hero stories and turned to Anti-Hero stories.
They'll eventually get bored of that, too.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (ZPrif)

302 294 Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at December 06, 2013 03:38 PM (PZ6/M)

Dear HeroPants McNarrative I am from THE FUTURE and in 85 yearsafter they clean up the mess the ACA saves my son's life...

by the way Mr. President I fully support your bigamous marriage to Reggie Love and Worf.

//Composite McTimeTraveler

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (9jfyN)

303 277 sorry about that, but it's hard to write longer pieces during the news day, as people expect a post at least once an hour.


Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:13 PM (/FnUH)


In a pinch, you could always post cute pictures of puppies or llama porn. Can never get enough of that.

Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (kkbgQ)

304 Those Ruby Slippers will never come off!

As long as you're alive!

Posted by: Wicked Witch of the McGuffin at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (aTXUx)

305 What about the trend in movies and TV to make you root for the bad guy?

----

That's not new, or a trend. Setting you up to root for criminals is just one example of the same principle: The Hero Is Who You Say It Is. Like ace pointed out up there, Indy broke all kinds of rules. In Ferris Bueller, we all rooted against a kid who didn't want to steal a car and a principal who was right all along.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone but Likes This Post at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (r1ruo)

306 Anyone else read the theory that Indy was totally meaningless to the first movie because the baddies would have opened up the Ark and been melted anyway?

Posted by: Mega at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (uvaJ1)

307 Politics is philosophy for dumb people. That dumb people like Obama get dumb results or dumb people like his voters are taken in by dumb platitudes is unremarkable. It's unfortunate for those of us who are not dumb, no doubt.

Communism: First appeared in Europe as a tragedy, now appearing in America as a farce.

Posted by: Sudden Clarity Clarence at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (2tjte)

308 If you can afford it, Follow your heart. (Or that of your wife's. )


I researched it and found out that it is VERY commercialized now. You can bike, ride horseback, and even drive parts of the El Camino. Purists will walk the entire thing, but there are many nice hotels and restaurants all set up along the way. The original path is mostly paved and you are never farther than a quarter mile from a highway or road.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (GQ8sn)

309 And our AtC was banninated? Why!?

She was enraging the Morons by playing a lefty troll called talc.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (sByIH)

310
>>Can anyone think of a movie where the MacGuffin was awesome, meaningful, and/or made the movie?

The Matthew Broderick one with the chimps. Because I don't give a shit about chimps and neither should you.

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (3ZtZW)

311 Posted by: rdbrewer at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (Iyg03)

Yes, speaking of Mel Gibson movies both Ransom and Braveheart had meaningful MacGuffins.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:40 PM (m2CN7)

312
That insight is really quite profound and represents a hugely important piece of the puzzle for anyone trying to construct a Unified Field Theory that explains Leftard behavior that, on the surface, appears inexplicable. Thank you Ace. Not bad at all for an Ewok.



Posted by: Chris Matthews at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (8ZskC)



It is my observation that much of our contemplation are efforts to simplify complex topics.


People like "Yes and No" answers. Fuzzy logic? Not so much.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (bb5+k)

313 Wow, this is a great post! Nicely done, Ace!!

Posted by: Brock O'bama at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (eDWZG)

314 Humans crave novelty.
Which is why youporn is in the top 100 sites on the planet.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (ZPrif)

315
Charlie Sheen has young kids all over the place including a grandchild. Does he spend the holidays with them? Nooooo. He's down in Cabo with his latest porn star girlfriend.

Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (kkbgQ)

316 Anyone else read the theory that Indy was totally meaningless to the first movie because the baddies would have opened up the Ark and been melted anyway?

Hmm, sounds like an episode of The Big Bang Theory.

Posted by: Jay in Ames at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (i2Lsf)

317 >>> Is the baby in Raising Arizona properly considereda MacGuffin?

that's a classic one, yeah. straight-up macguffin.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (/FnUH)

318 What's the MacGuffin in "Training Day"?

Posted by: BignJames at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (j7iSn)

319 rdbrewer--

The Wizard of Oz?

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 03:42 PM (fsLdt)

320 Here's one for you. The dance recital thing? I got moved. I'm now front and center.
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 06, 2013 03:38 PM (da5Wo)


...

PICS.

OMG pics so hard.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:42 PM (4df7R)

321 FINEMAN: [...] And I thought he made a very compelling case for his own decency, whatever the screw-ups were managerially, and they were real.

A very compelling case for his own decency, whatever the screw-ups were managerially? Reallly? And the next time Barry stands up and tells another bald-faced lie, what then, Howard? The next time an ambassador is murdered, the next time a senior government official invokes her Fifth Amendment right, the next time an IRS Counsel repeats, 80 times, "I don't recall", what in the Hell are you going to say, Mr. Fineman?

Posted by: mrp at December 06, 2013 03:42 PM (HjPtV)

322 The media portrays D's as heroes in a blockbuster, and R's as subjects in a bold, hard-hitting documentary.

Posted by: Mega at December 06, 2013 03:42 PM (uvaJ1)

323 What's the MacGuffin in "Training Day"?
Posted by: BignJames at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (j7iSn)

The money he owed the Russian mob.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (m2CN7)

324 What's the MacGuffin in "Training Day"?
Posted by: BignJames at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (j7iSn)

The money to pay off the Russian mob, I would think.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (DrWcr)

325 The lesson to me is right-wingers need to get better at

1) Telling stories where we are the heroes

2) Deconstructing the left-wing stories where they are the heroes and we are the villains

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (ZPrif)

326 rosebud.

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (3ZtZW)

327 300 My favorite movie MacGuffin is $70,000 in the movie Payback.
Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:39 PM (m2CN7)


Never understood why that movie wasn't a bigger hit.

Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (kkbgQ)

328 317 ace at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (/FnUH)

In RPGs the training manuals for scenario w\riters quite literally call the plot device "the MacGuffin" often times....

Stories are not about artifacts they are about conflict resolution and moral analysis.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (9jfyN)

329 No, American politics is now merely a MacGuffin, an important-sounding but ultimately inconsequential and disposable plot device for holding interest in the Hero's Journey.

"My fellow citizens, the American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of "personal discovery." This world of threats and dangers is not just a community, and it doesn't just need an organizer."

-Sarah Palin, 2008 RNC Nomination Speech



Boooyaaahhhh! Wrong again, Sarah Palin!!!!


Man, did we dodge a bullet. Can you image this stupid snowbilly in the White House

Posted by: Leftarded Lefty Libtard at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (0cMkb)

330
Also, what happens in 200 years when a US archivist decides that hey,
that box that I don't know the contents of doesn't exist on my register.


If Allah wills a man to die (by having his face melt off) in a place, His footsteps will lead him to that place.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (DL2i+)

331
Well if they didn't want him to fail, they should have picked a non-Democrat black President.


Allen West would seem the obvious choice to me.

Agreed, but you think the libs would let themselves get out blacked by the cons?
Look what they did to Herman Cain.
We could have marched out Martin Luther King himself and they would have had 15 baby mamas parading thru the morning shows.

Posted by: Roland THTG at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (QM5S2)

332 I was so glad when Clint Eastwood kept the bad guys off his lawn in Gran Torino.

Posted by: typical Moron at December 06, 2013 03:44 PM (bvtgt)

333 318 What's the MacGuffin in "Training Day"?

---

The big bag of money they stole from the drug dealer in that day's raid.

With that money, Denzel Washington can pay off the Russian mob for the guy he beat to death.

Without it? Swiss cheese.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:44 PM (/Crba)

334 In Repo Man, did they ever really explain what the hell was in the trunk of the car?

Wasn't it alien corpses from the crash site or am I mixing movies.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:44 PM (DL2i+)

335 Would the Stanley Cup be considered a MacGuffin, or does that just apply to cinematic plots?

Posted by: that kid in the movie that yells Shane, come back! at December 06, 2013 03:44 PM (VndSC)

336 Yeah....but the good guy don't know about that.

Posted by: BignJames at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (j7iSn)

337 Take a gander at the list of fantasy books Gabe linked to in the Morning Thread. There is anti-hero stuff in the list. A nod to George R.R. Martin. The last Wheel of Time novel. And the worst recommendation by the writer was total fanboi mushy-headed thinking -"Its by Gaiman!"

So I do not consider that reviewer in any way worthwhile.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (iGP6J)

338 Trying to think of a movie MacGuffin that really made a difference--that wasn't fungible.

Can anyone think of a movie where the MacGuffin was awesome, meaningful, and/or made the movie?

Posted by: rdbrewer


Yes, but then it would be called a not-Macguffin.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (uCNam)

339 >>>>Anyone else read the theory that Indy was totally meaningless to the first movie because the baddies would have opened up the Ark and been melted anyway?

I just saw this on Big Bang Theory. It seems... accurate. When Amy first mentioned a plot hole in the film, I thought she was going to note the fact that the British, not the Germans, had colonial-power influence over Egypt in 1937, so it's not at all clear why a German Army Brigade is permitted to dig wherever they like in Egypt.

Someone on this site mentioned that in a comment -- I had never even thought about that before. I just figured "Italian invasion," but that didn't happen until 1940.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (/FnUH)

340 Never understood why that movie wasn't a bigger hit.
Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:43 PM (kkbgQ)

His prostitute girlfriend in the movie just came out as a late life lesbian. Maria Bello. Girls be crazy.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (m2CN7)

341 Great post Ace

Posted by: scampydog at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (Fjmkm)

342 335 that kid in the movie that yells Shane, come back! at December 06, 2013 03:44 PM (VndSC)

the Stanley Cup is simply the medal at the end of Star Wars a New Hope...

the brawls and incidental and often seemingly accidental goals scored are the story

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (9jfyN)

343 Late to the thread, but I just wanted to echo the comments that this is a brilliant post, Ace. You have a gift (unlike the mediocrity and incompetence that is Obama).

And those who root for their hero-boyfriend, not caring what destruction he leaves in his wake, are evil.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (r+7wo)

344
That can happen again. People were already fooled twice and they can't wait to vote for the next winner of Dancing with the Stars. Despite the fact they've lost their jobs, ability to provide for their families, standard of living, health care or personal safety.

Posted by: Marcus at December 06, 2013 03:30 PM (GGCsk)


It can happen again so long as the dominant means of communication with the American people remains under one party control.


The Democrat Monopoly on media must be broken.

(And on Education, and Academia, etc.)


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (bb5+k)

345 The black goo.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (GQ8sn)

346 Every story doesn't have to have a MacGuffin.
The more alien and fantastic the setting, the more important the MacGuffin.
The more complicated and convoluted the plot, the more important the MacGuffin.

They help the avg low IQ audience member keep track of what's going on.

Politics and policy are complicated. MacGuffins simplify things for us. We just know Obama is a Quest to get the Magical WhatsIt.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (ZPrif)

347 If Allah wills a man to die (by having his face melt off) in a place, His footsteps will lead him to that place.

Heh. One of the most irritating things I've ever encountered was trying to get commitments from a certain group. They would say "Si Dios quiere". Translated: "If God wills it."

IOW I will do absolutely nothing to make that happen. But of course if it's God's will, it's going to happen, so Let's Watch!

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (sByIH)

348 317 >>> Is the baby in Raising Arizona properly considereda MacGuffin?

that's a classic one, yeah. straight-up macguffin.
Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (/FnUH)


No,I think the audience cared about the baby. How could you not when she was in her car seat tied to the hog looking so tiny?

Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (kkbgQ)

349 In Burn Notice the MacGuffin is that weird looking woman what's sposed to be Irish and never even bothers with a brogue, so you're left going "WTF, IRA nuh-uh" and scratching your head trying to figure her out for the rest of the series but it never adds up.

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (3ZtZW)

350 I've said this before:

Watch for a third-term attempt by him or proxy ( mooch).

Posted by: Cicero Kid at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (6fSty)

351 The Fascist Cult of personality has won.

Posted by: TANSTAAFL at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (tqAT4)

352 The main lesson to be learned from The Sopranos was that change is hard, not even considered by sociopaths and they should be avoided and locked up

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (DL2i+)

353 In "Laserblast" the laser was the MacGuffin, and the hero got it in the first scene.

Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (7zeA4)

354
299 -

You mean other than that ring thing, where everyone's ultimate fate would be determined by who had it?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 06, 2013 03:47 PM (TOk1P)

355 Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (/FnUH)

The baddies didn't know they would be melted.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 03:47 PM (m2CN7)

356 344 D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM (bb5+k)

Which again is why the press should have to have their dentists on speed dial....

as John Madden once said "Referee the Referees"

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:47 PM (9jfyN)

357 Rhetorical question followed by a not so rhetorical one:

Has there ever been a moment where a bunch of talking heads gathred to talk with another talking head about the interview the talking head just did with someone? Post-modern "journalism" cannot be parodied.

You know what I want? A boring-ass President, who does 9-5 and stays off the damned television.

Calvin Coolidge, Harry Truman, Millard Effing Fillmore...whatever. The country is being culturally, spiritually, economically, and politically shaken to pieces right now.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at December 06, 2013 03:47 PM (659DL)

358 OMG pics so hard.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:42 PM (4df7R)



Quite certain that the wife will oblige.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at December 06, 2013 03:47 PM (da5Wo)

359 It's Obama's movie. We're all just extras.

Posted by: rickl at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (zoehZ)

360 His prostitute girlfriend in the movie just came out as a late life lesbian. Maria Bello. Girls be crazy.

Crap. That's an L for team Penis.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (fsLdt)

361
334 In Repo Man, did they ever really explain what the hell was in the trunk of the car?

Wasn't it alien corpses from the crash site or am I mixing movies.

---

They never quite explained it 100%. It was certainly alien-related, though.

I think the deal is that the trunk had some artifact from the saucer, likely the power supply, and that the corpses were just something mentioned when Otto was shown the supposed picture of them and he says that they look like a plate of shrimp.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (/Crba)

362 Nice insight. The comparison makes it easier to explain to simpletons

Posted by: FreeProofreading at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (I6Wu7)

363 Ace, you nailed this one.

Posted by: Patrap at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (m+unH)

364 348 Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (kkbgQ)

AH but see the film in fact establishes the baby is indestructible and thus your conscience is allowed to focus on the mayhem

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (9jfyN)

365 All the crap libs like Matthews spew publicly are our MacGuffin. We spend all our time talking about it and focused on it, meanwhile it's meaningless and the real plot of the movie is happening elsewhere.

Posted by: Mega at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (uvaJ1)

366
I sat through Frida hoping to see Salma Hayek's MacGuffin.

Posted by: garrett at December 06, 2013 03:48 PM (BbAPj)

367 Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:15 PM (bb5+k)

I think you are missing the point. In a way, Ace's examples are the McMuffin, where our hero, Ace, ultimately slays our villian, the cum-guzzling cult of Barack Hussein Obama, mmm, mmm, good.

To be honest, at the age of eight to ten, I had no clue to the significance of the Ark other than what came from the movie.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (Kkt/i)

368 Crap. That's an L for team Penis.


Meh...

Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (GQ8sn)

369 The recipe for Cold Fusion in The Saint is a classic MacGuffin.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (sByIH)

370

WE DON`T NEED ANOTHER HERO

WE DON`T NEED TO KNOW THE WAY HOME

ALL WE WANT IS LIFE BEYOND

OBAMADOME

Posted by: Tina Turner at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (P3U0f)

371 This is good stuff Ace.

I could make a joke about it appearing on The Federalist, but seriously I'd hope this gets linked at Drudge or something similar.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (oFCZn)

372
Ace, don't fret about repetition, it's part of your charm. I wrote this about you in a recent email:

"He does sometimes take a point and beat it into the ground, then stomp on it, the pick it back up so he can light it on fire and put it out with his spit, and then stomp on it again. But that can be a fun thing to watch."

Posted by: White House Jugend at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (A0sHn)

373 360 His prostitute girlfriend in the movie just came out as a late life lesbian. Maria Bello. Girls be crazy.

Crap. That's an L for team Penis.

---

Speaking of Maria Bello... A History Of Violence.

The "role-playing as high-schoolers" scene with her and husband Viggo Mortensen sticks out to me.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (/Crba)

374 If there ever was a time when someone should be bored out of his fcuking mind, it's when talking to Chris Matthews.

Posted by: Fritz at December 06, 2013 03:50 PM (TKFmG)

375 >>>Yes, but then it would be called a not-Macguffin. Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 06, 2013 03:45 PM

Yeah, that's probably right.

Posted by: rdbrewer at December 06, 2013 03:50 PM (Iyg03)

376 EC, try some of The Stuff.

Wait a minute, that could be the allegory for all the people who become useful tools. Like an earworm whispering their fondest dreams and thus making them do what the earworm wants. Not necessarily what the person wants.

And there is an earlier movie with a similar plotline to Payback. A con left high and dry by his partner and all he wants is what is owed him. Alas the name now escapes me.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:50 PM (iGP6J)

377 So for best speed the U-boat would have to run on the surface. And we are talking the Mediterranean which is not a terribly large body of water. Though I would expect the Royal Navy to get in a rather frightful snit if one of their cruiser launched Walrus seaplanes spotted a U-boat in the Med.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:37 PM (iGP6J)


Instead of "Jane's Defense Weekly" they should call it "Anna Puma's Defense Weekly.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 03:50 PM (bb5+k)

378
I know some people that represent the idea that b.o. is a hero and must be defended no matter if the mcguffin is their health or their child's health.

Its sad.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 06, 2013 03:50 PM (caCiW)

379 On second thought, Castaway's Mac is the package he does not open, the one with the angel logo.

I would have laughed out loud if it had contained a satellite phone.

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 03:50 PM (QupBk)

380 And there is an earlier movie with a similar plotline to Payback. A con left high and dry by his partner and all he wants is what is owed him. Alas the name now escapes me.

---

Probably "Point Blank" with Lee Marvin, which was the original film based on the same story.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:51 PM (/Crba)

381 The Democrat Monopoly on media must be broken.

Choices must have consequences.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 06, 2013 03:51 PM (naUcP)

382 Ace, please leave the post as is if you haven't changed it already. I'm afraid that if you edit it, it won't be as good.

And the fact that this is stream of consciousness with little to no editing - all I'll say is I wish I could do that.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at December 06, 2013 03:51 PM (r+7wo)

383 Silent Cal Coolidge has gotten to be one of my favorite presidents:

Both his dry Yankee wit and his frugality with words became legendary. His wife, Grace Goodhue Coolidge, recounted that a young woman sitting next to Coolidge at a dinner party confided to him she had bet she could get at least three words of conversation from him. Without looking at her he quietly retorted, "You lose."


Too bad Obama has neither wit, frugality or humility.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 06, 2013 03:51 PM (BC6cY)

384 Yeah, there's an obvious darkly humorous element to the baby in Raising Arizona being the MacGuffin, and the Coens' treatment thereof.

"Buttons and Mindy" used a similar gag as the theme for its antics. And wasn't that sort of the premise of one or more babysitter movies in the '90s?

Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 03:51 PM (7zeA4)

385 Has there ever been a moment where a bunch of talking heads gathered to talk with another talking head about the interview the talking head just did with someone? Post-modern "journalism" cannot be parodied.

My favorite is when a Journalist who knows nothing about a topic interviews a Journalist who knows almost nothing about that topic. That's always compelling news.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:52 PM (sByIH)

386 376 Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:50 PM (iGP6J)


Lee Marvin's Point Blank?

Same movie by the way....

http://youtu.be/UVvUYudujZU

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:52 PM (9jfyN)

387 Gaylord Focker in the movie Truman. Except Valerie Jarret and others managed to keep Gaylord from finding out its not a movie.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:52 PM (iGP6J)

388 If you're interested, I've linked a short animation of Hitchcock explaining a McGuffin. It's now the first link in the piece, and also linked at the end as an update.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:52 PM (/FnUH)

389
BTW.

i saw MacGuffin open for Meat Beat Manifesto in 1988

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:53 PM (3ZtZW)

390 Don't forget The West Wing, they really believe that's how the Presidency _should_ be.

A Presidency that was actually like TWW would be infinitely better than what we've gotten from real Democrats in the last century or so, so there's that.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 06, 2013 03:53 PM (B/VB5)

391 Macguffen???

If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is "poontang"

Posted by: Animal Mother at December 06, 2013 03:53 PM (UZQM8)

392 Ronin is a great film

Posted by: mrp at December 06, 2013 03:53 PM (HjPtV)

393 389 Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:53 PM (3ZtZW)

I saw Mareilyn Chambers open for MacGuffin back in 1979.....

man was dad pissed.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:53 PM (9jfyN)

394 Can anyone think of a movie where the MacGuffin was awesome, meaningful, and/or made the movie?

That's the point of a MacGuffin, though. It's just a thing around which the plot is structured, to provide the necessary conflict between the Hero and the Villain. By definition it's something that isn't irrelevant, but also could be swapped out for something else without changing the dramatic or emotional core of the movie/book/tv show, etc. If it becomes something that is itself the star of the film, then it couldn't be a MacGuffin.

The Ark of the Covenant is awesome, and meaningful. But it didn't NEED to be the Ark to make the story awesome and meaningful. So long as the story itself establishes that The MacGuffin is something desirable, that's all that really matters.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:53 PM (4df7R)

395 But, I think you've also hit on why his support keeps getting more selective.

In a bad movie, the only motivation the villain has is to make the hero suffer. Greed, you like to see motivating your villain; revenge? Not so much.

Why did the new Red Dawn suck so much? Because the motivation for the villains was merely to punish America. Did they have a (real) backstory of previous conquest? No.
That's not a real enemy, that's a cardboard cut-out.

So, the JEF has ascribed nothing but revenge and spite as the motivations to his opposition.

But, a hero is only as big as his villain--and if the villain is small, petty and of weak motivations well, all the JEF is doing is weakening himself.

So, the JEF keeps knocking the shit out of these strawmen and some people are starting to notice--"hey, he's been fighting this same guy over and over and over, when's he going to do something to help me?"






Posted by: RoyalOil at December 06, 2013 03:54 PM (VjL9S)

396 >>> Is the baby in Raising Arizona properly considereda MacGuffin?


that's a classic one, yeah. straight-up macguffin.



Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (/FnUH)

----------------------------------

My favorite object in that movie wasn't the baby/MacGuffin. It was the MacGuffin's accessory - the Dr. Benjamin Spock book on baby care. The 'instructions'.

That poor book gets included and abused no matter where the baby goes. One of my favorite parts is after Gail and Evel beat up H.I. and tie him to a chair, you just see a pair of shoes walking from floor level, a hand brush away some rubble from the battle that just took place, just to grab this fucking book.

And by the end of the movie, the baby's back where he started, and the book is the only thing that's beat to shit, having been dirtied, soaked, burned and sprayed with blue dye from a bank robbery.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 06, 2013 03:54 PM (CJjw5)

397 No,I think the audience cared about the baby. How could you not when she was in her car seat tied to the hog looking so tiny?


The baby was just the contrivance that let Ed and H.I. to end up in a sequence of hilarious situations. It could just as easily have been a Maltese Falcon. A classic MacGuffin.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 06, 2013 03:54 PM (8ZskC)

398 What about.....a double MacGuffin?!?!?!


http://tinyurl.com/kmuo4b5



Stars Blair from Facts of Life when she was a kid.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:55 PM (GQ8sn)

399 You could also take this even further, Ace. The whole MacGuffinization thing is largely a result of aging Baby Boomers trying to recreate the "Camelot" movie thatJFK starred in when they were kids. Certainly this is true of Chris Matthews, hedoesn't even try to hide his conflation of the mythical Barack Obamaand the mythical JFK of his childhood. To him and those like him in the media, time stood still on November 22, 1963 and they waited from then until November 2008 for the Second Coming of their first hero who was killed before he could get the MacGuffin.

There is a reason why Obama and the Clintons fought so bitterly for Ted Kennedy's endorsement, and why Obama made sure Caroline was there on the stage when Ted delivered his endorsement.

It's all a movie they've constructed in their own minds. They don't even care about the policies, they want their childhood Hero back and they think Obama is him.

Posted by: rockmom at December 06, 2013 03:55 PM (Q4elb)

400 Oh, I think I read the edited essay, so ignore my compliment @328, ace.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at December 06, 2013 03:55 PM (r+7wo)

401 Sharing this post. So good.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 56% more DOOM! at December 06, 2013 03:55 PM (09o/X)

402 D-Lamp, thank you good sirrah but I merely have a passing acquaintance with a myriad of items, just in some areas far more expansive than others.

Point Blank? Yes that is the movie title.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:55 PM (iGP6J)

403 woohoo
new hash, new router

damn, should have gone on a banning rant first

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 03:55 PM (JFrBt)

404 whoa, no change
glad I didn't rant

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 03:56 PM (JFrBt)

405 So for best speed the U-boat would have to run on the surface.

Much lower HorsePower on electric than diesel.
And unlike modern sub hulls lots of draggy crap all over the top.

Modern nukes will IIRC go faster under water as there is less drag with the whole thing under than with the deck or sail creating surface wave interference.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:56 PM (DL2i+)

406
Much lower HorsePower on electric than diesel.
And unlike modern sub hulls lots of draggy crap all over the top.

Modern
nukes will IIRC go faster under water as there is less drag with the
whole thing under than with the deck or sail creating surface wave
interference.



I'm sure that deck gun also slowed things down a bit if they submerged.

Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 03:57 PM (GQ8sn)

407 So will Huma be the Mcguffin in the Hillary biopic ? The Weiner can be then antagonist.

Posted by: The Jackhole at December 06, 2013 03:57 PM (nTgAI)

408 What's the McGuffin in Mad Max?

Posted by: Havedash at December 06, 2013 03:58 PM (SIR+t)

409 >>> What's the McGuffin in Mad Max?

i don't think there is one. But in the Road Warrior, it's the rig that can haul the tanker.

Posted by: ace at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (/FnUH)

410 Anyone else read the theory that Indy was totally meaningless to the first movie because the baddies would have opened up the Ark and been melted anyway? Hmm, sounds like an episode of The Big Bang Theory.
Posted by: Jay in Ames at December 06, 2013 03:41 PM (i2Lsf)

I saw the theory first proposed in a very well-written British horror series called 'The Shades' a few years ago when one of the characters, the nerdy sidekick, brings it up. It makes absolute sense: Indy was irrelevant to outcome.

Posted by: troyriser at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (2jF2B)

411 Likewise, there was nothing special about the Shankara Stones.


The village dried up and died without it.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (DL2i+)

412 And our AtC was banninated? Why!?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 03:36 PM (4df7R)



For no reason whatsoever! Innocent flower of delicate virtue!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (VtjlW)

413
I think every time somebody posts FIRST! that qualifies as a MacGuffin.
it matters to them, and to maybe the first few commenters who say things like arg you beat me to it, and it still gets the thread going...

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (3ZtZW)

414 408 What's the McGuffin in Mad Max?

---

Not sure there is one in the first movie.

Road Warrior, though? Gasoline.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (/Crba)

415 Can anyone think of a movie where the MacGuffin was awesome, meaningful, and/or made the movie?

Les Miserables, perhaps. The MacGuffin ismercy for Jean Valjean.

But that movie would never have been written in Hollywood. There would have been some stupid shootout in the end between Valjean and Javert, rather than Javert killing himself.

Posted by: rockmom at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (Q4elb)

416 408 Havedash at December 06, 2013 03:58 PM (SIR+t)

There isn't one because Mad Max is a Revenge Story...the MacGuffin is I guess his sense of familial normalcy and thinking killing pond scum will bring calm...?

It's a stretch....

Revenge Stories are moral analysis more so than madcap romps.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (9jfyN)

417 Can anyone think of a movie where the MacGuffin was awesome, meaningful, and/or made the movie?

I like the Sword in the Stone as a MacGuffin. Everybody wants it until everyone discovers they can't have it. So it lies forgotten.

Then a boy in a time of need discovers it and accidentally becomes the King of England. The sword becomes desirable again once Wart proves that someone can remove it, but at that point it's easily proven to be the sole rightful property of King Arthur.

So it drives the story, but not directly and overtly. The real story is the Apprentice / Master relation between Wart and Merlin, and the cool power fantasy of magic.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (sByIH)

418 it's the rig that can haul the tanker.

It's the 'juice'.

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (QupBk)

419
>>>What's the McGuffin in Mad Max?

Last of the interceptors. plus the dog.

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 04:00 PM (3ZtZW)

420 MacGuffins are just one tool to provide motivation.
Not every story has to have one.

Heist movie often don't. The (anti)heroes want money. Easily understood motivation. The protagonists and antagonists both want the money. Everything that happens is about who winds up with the money at the end.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:00 PM (ZPrif)

421 No,I think the audience cared about the baby. How could you not when she was in her car seat tied to the hog looking so tiny?
Posted by: Dr. Jesse MacPinkman at December 06, 2013 03:46 PM (kkbgQ)



But the baby was still the MacGuffin. You're allowed to care about the MacGuffin, but that doesn't change what it is: a desirable object. The puppies in "101 Dalmatians" are a MacGuffin, too. They didn't have to be puppies. They could have been anything furry and small, or rare and lustrous, that Cruella wanted to exploit and the heroes wanted to liberate. That doesn't mean you don't care about the puppies.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at December 06, 2013 04:00 PM (4df7R)

422 Related: We are sooooo fucked.
Posted by: Andy at December 06, 2013 03:17 PM (qZRAa)

Not even... the FSA cannot be sustained.

Related: LIB

Posted by: cajun caret at December 06, 2013 04:00 PM (UZQM8)

423 The village dried up and died without it.


Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (DL2i+)


That can happen to anyone.

Posted by: Helen Thomas at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (8ZskC)

424 409 ace at December 06, 2013 03:59 PM (/FnUH)

The Road Warrior was a more pure adventure in the Campbellian Myth sense...

Max was existing and relearned how to live or something.....


then he fell into a Peyote Oasis and Hallucinated beyond thunderdome...

(I hope)

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (9jfyN)

425 Kate Upton is my MacGuffin

Posted by: Jean at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (pxx5O)

426 Brilliant post. Well done.

Posted by: Chris at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (gI9Bk)

427 then he fell into a Peyote Oasis and Hallucinated beyond thunderdome...

(I hope)

---

If he did, I wished he'd woken up after the end of his match with Blaster.


The second 2/3 of that movie sucked pretty hard.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (/Crba)

428 Ace's excellent analysis has to be understood against the back drop of an American population so hopelessly dumbed down that it make an Obama possible, indeed, inevitable.

The Matthews interview like the whole Obama presidency was like one of the side interviews in a reality show where the contestant does color analysis about ...me! ... how I am processing what just happened ... or is about to happen ... or will never happen ... to me!

Posted by: Neil at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (Xv7f/)

429 To be honest, at the age of eight to ten, I had no clue to the significance of the Ark other than what came from the movie.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 03:49 PM (Kkt/i)


I just recall being seriously disappointed in Raiders II because I simply didn't care about some supposed indian rocks with magical powers.


I couldn't relate at all. Now had they mentioned something like King Arthur's sword or something, I think they would have had a better plot device.

I also thought some of the plot components in Raiders II was just ridiculous. The ore car ride being an example thereof.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (bb5+k)

430 More like an American Idol politics. All teenage girl adoration and hysterics. If you don't love love love the correct contestant your a H8ter!

Posted by: Ron at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (A6yyZ)

431 Is there a MacGuffin in 'Debbie Does Dallas?'

Posted by: --- at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (MMC8r)

432 Odysseus? His trip back home had NOTHING on The One Who Walks Amongst Us!

Posted by: Chris Methews at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (aTXUx)

433 The Last of the V8 Interceptors, which I guess means there were Straight6 Interceptors.

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (QupBk)

434 Did Sharknado have a MacGuffin?

Posted by: Cicero Kid at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (6fSty)

435 Mmmm...MacGuffin

Posted by: RWC at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (fWAjv)

436 427 Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:01 PM (/Crba)

Well it was the 80s...and uh "cool" or something...

*sigh*

I think he was really looking for his teeth around the rig

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (9jfyN)

437 I also thought some of the plot components in Raiders II was just ridiculous. The ore car ride being an example thereof.



It was Short Round for me.



Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 04:03 PM (GQ8sn)

438 The simple fact that we can describe the Politics of Obama as cinematic devices and plot lines is pretty pathetic, when you think about it.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 04:03 PM (VndSC)

439 431 Is there a MacGuffin in 'Debbie Does Dallas?'

---

The money "the team" needs to go to their competition.


Or perhaps the muffin of the chick who gets it from the owners of the candle-shop.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:03 PM (/Crba)

440 I wish all movies could star Shia LeBouef.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (CJjw5)

441 Christina Hendricks?

MacGuffin and The Two Towers

Posted by: kbdabear at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (aTXUx)

442 I got it!


Red Ryder BB gun with a compass in the stock!


What happens when he finally got it? HE SHOT HIS EYE OUT! Just like his mother said it would happen.


Then they all went out for Chinese.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (GQ8sn)

443 440 I wish all movies could star Shia LeBouef.

---

OK, now you're just trolling.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (/Crba)

444 I also thought some of the plot components in Raiders II was just ridiculous.

Yep. Voodoo dolls and ripping out beating hearts that continue to beat until the host burns up and then burn up remotely are stupid.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (sByIH)

445
434 Did Sharknado have a MacGuffin?<<



Yeah - Sharknado II.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (VndSC)

446 What was the MacGuffin in The Passion of the Christ?

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (3ZtZW)

447 There
Are no lions in the Scottish high lands & neither is there joy in Mudville tonight either

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (HVff2)

448 OK, now you're just trolling.



Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (/Crba)


-----------------------

It was time.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (CJjw5)

449 The highest possible praise for this piece: Iowahawk is recommending it.

Nice work, Ace!

Posted by: Ian S. at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (B/VB5)

450 437 EC at December 06, 2013 04:03 PM (GQ8sn)


I think Lao Tsei air freight was sorta a "what the fuck really so lazy?"

Then as I aged I realized it was not really important...of course neither was the entire movie in Indy's Arc...as a matter of fact Kingdom of the Crystal Skull managed to destroy Indy's entire narrative.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (9jfyN)

451 SinceObama first heard of Mandela's death on the news, I can only conclude thatObama's staff murdered him (Mandela). I would think that Obama would draw the same conclusion. Its their modus operendi. Do something fuking terrible and pretend to let Obama read about it in the paper.

Posted by: dirks strewn at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (kfcYC)

452 But of course if it's God's will, it's going to happen, so Let's Watch!

I was referring to the artifact not the attitude.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (DL2i+)

453 There is a vast gulf of difference between a Gato or a Type IXc and a 688 boat.

The Gato and Type IXc are surface vessels that can stay under water for short periods of time. Hence when you view them as surface ships the flat decks and superstructure items as deck guns make sense. Those old cruiser rules also affected their design since the Kriegsmarine and US Navy viewed submarines as more than mere fleet scouts. Contrast that tactical flexibility vs the IJN who used their I and RO boats purely in an anti fleet role. Even the Sen Toku's were designed as elements of a fleet taking combat to the enemy. IJN never thought about hitting the American supply convoys, which considering the vast distances that make up the Pacific, was truly monumentally stupid.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (iGP6J)

454 Enough MacGuff. My health insurance bill arrived.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (3WO2A)

455 What's the McGuffin in Animal House?

Posted by: Bluto at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (Xv7f/)

456 We crave simple stories. We want to know who the Goody Guys are and who the Bad Guys are how to know who won and who lost.

MacGuffins are how we tell who's winning and losing.
In heist movies it's who ends up with the money.
In American Idol it's who wins the contest. Easy to understand who wins.
In sports, easy to understand who wins.
WWE has fake championship belts, gives structure to who is winning and losing.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:06 PM (ZPrif)

457 Taken just as in Ransom, the MacGuffin , which we are allowed to care, is the kidnap victim. That it is the main character's child , makes it more crucial to the story.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 04:06 PM (m2CN7)

458 Empire of Jeff....your tolerance of existential pain is astounding sire....

shudder Shia La poof

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:06 PM (9jfyN)

459 Did Sharknado have a MacGuffin?

Posted by: Cicero Kid


Yes, Tara Reid's tits.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 06, 2013 04:06 PM (uCNam)

460 I wish all movies could star Shia LeBouef.

I read that Mr TheBeef was popular with Studio Execs because his price / dollars earned ratio was the best in Hollywood.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:06 PM (sByIH)

461 451 SinceObama first heard of Mandela's death on the news, I can only conclude thatObama's staff murdered him (Mandela). I would think that Obama would draw the same conclusion. Its their modus operendi. Do something fuking terrible and pretend to let Obama read about it in the paper.

---

I was surprised he was still alive. I thought he'd died while Obama was in South Africa sometime back and that shithead had managed to make the whole thing about himself.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:06 PM (/Crba)

462 Great post, Ace.

Sad and depressing as all get out but still great.

Posted by: suitably adequate at December 06, 2013 04:06 PM (d0dHb)

463 And it's best to leave out The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Posted by: RWC at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (fWAjv)

464 For those who want to change the hero dynamic in mass media, go to BillWhittle.com and read about the Common Sense Resistance.


Posted by: grognard at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (/29Nl)

465 Yes, Tara Reid's tits pepperoni areolas.


Fixed.

Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (GQ8sn)

466
>>The highest possible praise for this piece: Iowahawk is recommending it.<<




Crap - better clean up around here quick, before the twitterverse rings the doorbell.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (VndSC)

467 The post has helped to frame our predicament, but what do we do about it? Create a counter narrative? Out of what?

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (QupBk)

468 What's the McGuffin in Animal House?


Either 10,000 marbles or the pot Fawn Liebowitz was going to make.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (8ZskC)

469 I wish all movies could star Shia LeBouef.

Hah....he's actually a pretty decent actor, just not a lead man.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (fsLdt)

470 440 I wish all movies could star Shia LeBouef.
yeah I can't believe they didn't make Holes 2.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (m2CN7)

471 Crap - better clean up around here quick, before the twitterverse rings the doorbell.

---

Just remember not to stomp the flaming bag of shit they leave behind.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:08 PM (/Crba)

472 What's the McGuffin in Animal House?
White Women.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 04:08 PM (m2CN7)

473 Speaking of Ronin, is that the last good movie DeNiro was in? I do not consider Meet the Parents 'good'.

Posted by: gewa76 at December 06, 2013 04:08 PM (k8m83)

474 Sarah Palin's 2008 acceptance speech excerpt (greatamericandocuments.com)

But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed … when the roar of the crowd fades away … when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot - what exactly is our opponent's plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger … take more of your money … give you more orders from Washington … and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world.

Posted by: mrp at December 06, 2013 04:08 PM (HjPtV)

475 Hah....he's actually a pretty decent actor, just not a lead man.

His rapid fire stammering schtick pisses me off.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:08 PM (sByIH)

476 212
Don't subs go faster when they don't submerge?



The war hadn't started yet so there was no need to.





Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 03:25 PM (fsLdt)

But the scene, as I recall, had the sub clearing the decks and the decks becoming awashed, which portends transit under the surface. So the question is valid and one that has stuck in my mind.
Modern cigar-shaped subs may go faster under the water due to a number of factors.
Older subs went faster on the surface in large part due to diesel operation providing electricity versus battery power and the efficient ship-like hull shape, of which, many of the protuberances are not causing drag when operating on the surface.
It's actually an improvement that modern subs can transit as fast or faster than on the surface.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 04:09 PM (Kkt/i)

477 402 D-Lamp, thank you good sirrah but I merely have a passing acquaintance with a myriad of items, just in some areas far more expansive than others.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 03:55 PM (iGP6J)


I am constantly amazed and impressed by your knowledge of various military histories and arcana.

Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:09 PM (bb5+k)

478
455 -

Academic standing for the House.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 06, 2013 04:09 PM (TOk1P)

479 Some movies just can't be redone/rebooted and should just be left alone to stand on their own. The Mad Max series is one. Tom Hardy is going to blow.

Posted by: Havedash at December 06, 2013 04:09 PM (SIR+t)

480 The MacGuffin in the Dark Crystal had the title role

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 04:09 PM (3ZtZW)

481 412 For no reason whatsoever! Innocent flower of delicate virtue!


for being a Brown's fan?

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (JFrBt)

482 466
>>The highest possible praise for this piece: Iowahawk is recommending it.
Crap - better clean up around here quick, before the twitterverse rings the doorbell.
Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (VndSC)

Holy fuck, fuckity fuck, fuck what is this clean np which you speak?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (HVff2)

483 For me, the biggest plot hole in Raiders is that the Ark doesn't work for everyone. It only gives power to the faithful. In fact the Israelites managed to lose it at one point by wandering from God. So no, there was never any danger in Hitler getting it.

Posted by: Caliban at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (DrC22)

484 A little bit louder now.....a little bit louder now.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (fsLdt)

485 I hope Ace isn't trying to let us all down gently by suggesting the next election will be all about personality and not issues competence.

Posted by: jwb7605 at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (Qxe/p)

486 408 What's the McGuffin in Mad Max?

Posted by: Havedash at December 06, 2013 03:58 PM (SIR+t)


Revenge?


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (bb5+k)

487 Lobotomy or anti-psychotics? That in my opinion is the only question as to how we will have to handle Mr. Matthews and his fellow travelers in the future. Permanent institutionalization and a finding of non compos mentis is a given - there's no way any civilized nation could let these maniacs pose a continuing danger to themselves and others. I just wonder if we should lobotomize them with steel or chemicals?

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (bB1P0)

488 The simple fact that we can describe the Politics of Obama as cinematic devices and plot lines is pretty pathetic, when you think about it.

Posted by: Roy at December 06, 2013 04:03 PM (VndSC)

This isn't exactly a new thing. One of the best books ever written about Reagan was Lou Cannon's "President Reagan: The Role Of A Lifetime." I highly recommend it if you haven't read it. Cannon covered Reagan from the time he first entered politics in California through his Presidency. And he made a good case in his book that Reagan was successful largely because he understood what Americans wanted in the guy who plays the President in their movie. He knew that stagecraft was as important as statecraft.

Obama's problem is that he can't do statecraft at all, and only does a half-ass job of stagecraft. That's why it is so sickening to see people like Chris Matthews contonue to swoon over him. It's like watchinga movie version of "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Posted by: rockmom at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (NYnoe)

489 Egg salad. Shepard Wong had the recipe for the best egg salad. This stuff is vital.

Posted by: AlanR at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (Vxb1M)

490 219
The MacGuffin in Castaway was the stupid package with the angel wings on it.

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 03:27 PM (3ZtZW)

I'd say it was his girlfriend, played by Helen Hunt.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 04:11 PM (Kkt/i)

491 Essence.


Posted by: EC at December 06, 2013 04:11 PM (GQ8sn)

492 It's not an action movie, it's a comedy like "Ferris Bueller's Day Off".

Posted by: dzmudz9646@aol.com at December 06, 2013 04:11 PM (rHThR)

493 479 Havedash at December 06, 2013 04:09 PM (SIR+t)

eh maybe....

of course if you used the right soundtrack and made a good biting social commentary on the debasing nature of socialist machine politics it could rock...

I'd love to hear the Beatmasters' Mix of Route 66's Depeche Mode Cover with him engaging in corrective training drills with a nice 12ga duster

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:11 PM (9jfyN)

494 That is one of the reasons I do not plan to see the next installment of The Hobbit. Well besides being part 69 of 128. Or the red haired female elf who was NOT in the books.

That stupid rail car ride in the first movie. All I could think was Temple of Doom followed by how is this moving the movie forward? It was not advancing the plot and was just Jackson and his CGI crew wanking off with their CPUs.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 04:12 PM (iGP6J)

495 One of the key points to the analogy here, which Ace touches on (referring to Indy's illegal acts or not-great work ethic), but I think goes further, is the audience reaction to acts by the hero that "we" (not the target audience) are appalled by, see e.g. as immoral, unjust, unconstitutional, hateful, egregiously unpresidential.

Do these things cause the audience to feel qualms about their hero? No, on the contrary. Especially when clearly directed at the "bad guys," the reaction is rather, glee.

IRS targetting conservatives, the Senate goes nuclear, vote fraud, no one cares about Benghazi (eat it, repugs), the constant brazen lies, etc.

It may be surreal for us (not the target audience) to witness, but such things hardly repel Obama's audience.

Occasionally, when it hits too close to home for the audience (i.e. the MSM)-- e.g. excluding FOX from press conference, White House treating journalists as criminals, excluding non-WH photographers from events, -- they'll squirm a little, object. But even this is half-hearted.

Obama at his thuggiest gives them a vicarious badass thrill.

For them, it's like Indy shooting the guy with a sword. There's no "ugh, that's so wrong and unfair." It's "fuck, yeah!"

PS Check out Obama scolding his audience-- of "liberal" and "progressive" journalists-- for their reporting on the IRS scandal. Scoffing at it, as just another faux-scandal. Unreal. At this point, it's like Obama is openly trolling us all.

Posted by: lael at December 06, 2013 04:12 PM (j4QK7)

496 Speaking of Ronin, is that the last good movie DeNiro was in? I do not consider Meet the Parents 'good'.
Posted by: gewa76 at December 06, 2013 04:08 PM (k8m83)

Silver Linings

Just a supporting actor though

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 04:12 PM (m2CN7)

497 484 A little bit louder now.....a little bit louder now

okay

FOR BEING A BROWNS FANS?

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 04:12 PM (JFrBt)

498 Was the shark the McGuffin in Jaws?

If it was, the specifics of it mattered a whole lot to the movie.

Posted by: Chief Brody at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (Xv7f/)

499 Lobotomy or anti-psychotics? That in my opinion is the only question as to how we will have to handle Mr. Matthews and his fellow travelers in the future.

Tell Zombie Joe Kennedy Matthews is an over-sexed female relative. He'll know what to do.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (sByIH)

500
>>>Essence.

You mean like denying women of it?

Posted by: Bigby's Tiny Fists at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (3ZtZW)

501 467 The post has helped to frame our predicament, but what do we do about it? Create a counter narrative? Out of what?

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 04:07 PM (QupBk)

For starters, we have to pick a candidate in 2016 that a lot of people can identify with as a hero and not a villain. And stop worrying so much about the MacGuffin.

Posted by: rockmom at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (Q4elb)

502 Pancakes are a MacGuffin.

Posted by: garrett at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (Xjd5r)

503 485 jwb7605 at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (Qxe/p)

Which means simply we turn t into Rocky Horror Picture show and make it audience participation then.....

if we're doomed to suck do it in fishnet

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (9jfyN)

504 483
For me, the biggest plot hole in Raiders is that the Ark doesn't work
for everyone. It only gives power to the faithful. In fact the
Israelites managed to lose it at one point by wandering from God. So no,
there was never any danger in Hitler getting it.

Posted by: Caliban

There was no danger in Hitler getting The Bomb either, but we didn't know that.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (3WO2A)

505 It's not an action movie, it's a comedy like "Ferris Bueller's Day Off".

Hmm. We arebeing ruled by The Sausage King of Chicago.

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (QupBk)

506 He who controls the MacGuffin controls the Universe.

Posted by: garrett at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (Xjd5r)

507 For me, the biggest plot hole in Raiders is that the Ark doesn't work for everyone. It only gives power to the faithful. In fact the Israelites managed to lose it at one point by wandering from God. So no, there was never any danger in Hitler getting it.
Posted by: Caliban at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (DrC22)

Actually, IIRC, the Philistines captured the Ark at one point, so Hitler could technically have gotten it. But then it caused tumors in the Philistines and they had to get rid of it. So your first point stands, I think.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at December 06, 2013 04:14 PM (r+7wo)

508 Lobotomy or anti-psychotics? That in my opinion is the only question as to how we will have to handle Mr. Matthews and his fellow travelers in the future.

---

Lobotomy.

JFK's sister Rosemary got one, so it's appropriate for all the Camelot-devotees to get that IMHO.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:14 PM (/Crba)

509 okay

FOR BEING A BROWNS FANS?
Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 04:12 PM (JFrBt)



Oh, please, that's punishment in and of itself.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at December 06, 2013 04:15 PM (VtjlW)

510 whoa
just got offered a ESP M-1 for my beater BC Rich and $500
gotta run

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 04:15 PM (JFrBt)

511 495 lael at December 06, 2013 04:12 PM (j4QK7)


Lael I am at this point 75% certain I would prefer the nation split rather than be dragged into Obamavision.....

You are correct in yoru analysis but the reason I am not angered by Tingles' antics is he is doing my legwork in creating a separate national identity for the new America.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:15 PM (9jfyN)

512 So the Cobalt 60 folks have started to check into the hospital.


Federal police blocked access Friday to a central Mexico hospital where six people were reported to have been admitted with radiation exposure.

An official familiar with the case confirmed Mexican media reports that the six have been admitted to the general hospital in the city of Pachuca and may have been exposed to a stolen source of cobalt-60.

The official, who spoke Friday on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak to the media, said only one person was dizzy and vomiting, which are symptoms of radiation poisoning.

Posted by: RWC at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (fWAjv)

513 deck gun also slowed things down a bit

Deck gun, scopes, open wood deck, anchors, cables, etc., etc.

http://tinyurl.com/yp6z5b

vs.

http://tinyurl.com/32zxdu7

There's another maybe prototype only streamliner that was to have H202 propulsion.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (DL2i+)

514 Ace,

At the risk of completely misunderstanding your point, I would argue that the nature of the MacGuffin does have some importance. It's like a flavor you add to stew. Be it curry or sage. That the stew could be equally good with either flavor is beyond question. It's how the flavors are added together that effects the outcome.

If the MacGuffin is a pound of cocaine and the heros are a group of adorable elementary school kids...then you see where I am going. Plot elements are contextual.

Posted by: Eton Cox at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (q177U)

515 I431 Is there a MacGuffin in 'Debbie Does Dallas?'



---



The money "the team" needs to go to their competition.





Or perhaps the muffin of the chick who gets it from the owners of the candle-shop.



Technically speaking, that would be a McMuffin.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (8ZskC)

516
Yep. Voodoo dolls and ripping out beating hearts that continue to beat until the host burns up and then burn up remotely are stupid.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:04 PM (sByIH)


Yes, weird cultists as the bad guys was also one of my pet peeves. The ending was also rather anti-climatic. The glowing stones falling into the river or something.


Did they ever manifest the great power of which they were supposedly capable, or was the best they could do was to glow?

Don't remember much about the movie, only saw it once, and am still trying to get it out of my head.


Raiders Jumped the shark in episode II.



Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (bb5+k)

517 of course if you used the right soundtrack and made a good biting social commentary on the debasing nature of socialist machine politics it could rock...I'd love to hear the Beatmasters' Mix of Route 66's Depeche Mode Cover with him engaging in corrective training drills with a nice 12ga duster
Posted by: sven10077 at December 06, 2013 04:11 PM (9jfyN)



In today's Hollywood, the world gone mad pockiclipse will be caused by global warming. Algore will have a cameo as Lord Humungous.

Posted by: Havedash at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (SIR+t)

518 Yep, when Obama fucks us over, the Left cheers him on.

We are the turbaned swordsman Indy shoots.
We are the bald Nazi sliced by the propellers.

The Left wants to see Obama kick our ass. The Left wants to our blood.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (ZPrif)

519 oh
FORZA AZZURRI

and what the hell
good luck el tri

Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (JFrBt)

520 For me, the biggest plot hole in Raiders is that the Ark doesn't work for everyone. It only gives power to the faithful. In fact the Israelites managed to lose it at one point by wandering from God. So no, there was never any danger in Hitler getting it.
Posted by: Caliban at December 06, 2013 04:10 PM (DrC22)

That's not a plot hole though because the Nazis and the Americans did not know or understand or accept this.Also its not like its a fact that can be proved or disproved beforehand by the Nazis.

Posted by: polynikes self proclaimed king of walked into a bar jokes at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (m2CN7)

521 512 So the Cobalt 60 folks have started to check into the hospital.

---

Word was, as of a few days ago, that these people would check in but not check out.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (/Crba)

522 Wasn't there a gag video about the Eagles flying the Hobbits to the mountain and just dumping the ring in, thus eliminating the need for three whole movies?

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (fsLdt)

523 357, I was thinking the same thing. A good President should be like a good umpire. We shouldn't even notice him. Good luck selling that in this age of celebrity.

Posted by: gewa76 at December 06, 2013 04:17 PM (k8m83)

524 You left out the Ultimate McGuffin...

The Maltese Falcon.... where the hero did not even know why he was looking for the damn thing...

Which fits the Obama narrative even better.... they don't even know WHAT they are chasing... or why...

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 06, 2013 04:17 PM (lZBBB)

525 Without Indy, the Ark is taken to Germany and maybe opened in Hitler's presence, and Hitler is killed. So Indy actually made the Holocaust possible.  Sobering, when you think about it.

Posted by: gewa76 at December 06, 2013 04:17 PM (k8m83)

526 lael above makes good points.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:18 PM (ZPrif)

527 Did they ever manifest the great power of which they were supposedly capable, or was the best they could do was to glow?



If they glow, just stay away.

Posted by: The Mexican Government at December 06, 2013 04:18 PM (8ZskC)

528 Posted by: navycopjoe FORZA AZZURRI!!! at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (JFrBt)


I'm sure they'll dive their way into the final

Posted by: cajun caret at December 06, 2013 04:18 PM (UZQM8)

529 Actually, IIRC, the Philistines captured the Ark at one point, so Hitler could technically have gotten it. But then it caused tumors in the Philistines and they had to get rid of it. So your first point stands, I think.

There's also the HILARIOUS part about God knocking over their idol Dagon a few times. Read 1 Samuel 5.

Then they carried the ark into Dagon’s temple and set it beside Dagon. 3 When the people of Ashdod rose early the next day, there was Dagon, fallen on his face on the ground before the ark of the Lord! They took Dagon and put him back in his place. 4 But the following morning when they rose, there was Dagon, fallen on his face on the ground before the ark of the Lord! His head and hands had been broken off and were lying on the threshold; only his body remained.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:18 PM (sByIH)

530 A good President should be like a good umpire. We shouldn't even notice him. Good luck selling that in this age of celebrity.

---

OTOH, the JEF is like Frank Drebin in The Naked Gun... making himself the center of attention while patting down the groin of every guy on the field.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:18 PM (/Crba)

531 Posted by: Romeo13 at December 06, 2013 04:17 PM (lZBBB)


Oh... crap.... Sam SPADE...


Chasing a BLACK BIRD....


I forgot to Denounce myself...

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 06, 2013 04:18 PM (lZBBB)

532 @357 You know what I want? A boring-ass President, who does 9-5 and stays off the damned television. ------------------

This is what a smart president does. Every time the president has a televised address, it chips away at the overall effectiveness of that move. People get used to it. The novelty wears off just a bit. But Obama doesn't exactly have any accomplishments that he can depend on to maintain his support, so...

Posted by: junior at December 06, 2013 04:18 PM (UWFpX)

533 I hope you had a barf bag.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at December 06, 2013 04:19 PM (dvRYt)

534 Great post, Ace. But I don't quite understand this MacGuffin thing you are talking about. Can you lay it out for me one more time?

Posted by: Sambo at December 06, 2013 04:19 PM (4PftV)

535 Wasn't there a gag video about the Eagles flying the Hobbits to the mountain and just dumping the ring in, thus eliminating the need for three whole movies?
Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (fsLdt)

Yep. 'How It Should Have Ended' video.

Posted by: RWC at December 06, 2013 04:19 PM (fWAjv)

536 Lael: Obama at his thuggiest gives them a vicarious badass thrill.

Exactly. It's like in the Lethal Weapon movie with the South Africans. At the end; the evil racist South Africa declares "diplomatic immunity" and Mel Gibson murders him in cold blood noting that his immunity has been "revoked." Cheers all around. No concern for the rule of law.

Leftists have spent years labeling conservatives as evil. Sometimes you have to go a little outside the lines to thwart evil.

Posted by: Duke at December 06, 2013 04:19 PM (d3clc)

537 Men In Black I - a whole galaxy on a kitteh's collar. Now that's hard to beat. Bonus: a giant, angry cockroach wearing an Edgar suit.

Posted by: mrp at December 06, 2013 04:20 PM (HjPtV)

538 Posted by: mrp at December 06, 2013 04:08 PM (HjPtV)


That speech convinced me that Sarah Palin is a fucking genius.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:20 PM (bb5+k)

539 HISHE video


http://tinyurl.com/39k2bb

Posted by: RWC at December 06, 2013 04:20 PM (fWAjv)

540 Brigadoon, once-in-a-lifetime MacGuffin.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2013 04:20 PM (3WO2A)

541 Ha! EC, I beat you to it ("Double MacGuffin") by 100 messages!

Posted by: moviegique at December 06, 2013 04:20 PM (7zeA4)

542 Ace, that was brilliant. You have something besides talent. It's a strong stomach to watch those two asses, especially Chrissie sucking up to The JEF.
Has he offered to leave MSNBC to work for SCOAMF?

Posted by: Carol at December 06, 2013 04:20 PM (QMRMM)

543 535 Wasn't there a gag video about the Eagles flying the Hobbits to the mountain and just dumping the ring in, thus eliminating the need for three whole movies?
Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (fsLdt)

Yep. 'How It Should Have Ended' video.


---

Those are classics.

My favorite had to be the one where Harry Potter ended with Snape turning the time-turner back about 70 years to kill Voldemort as a child, declaring to Dumbledore that "I just saved your life!"

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 06, 2013 04:21 PM (/Crba)

544 Yep, the Left is glad the IRS fucked us over.

Academia has purged almost all conservatives from their ranks.

Do they feel the slightest bit of shame about this? Of course not. They are proud of it. To them it's like purging the KKK.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:21 PM (ZPrif)

545 Romeo13, alrady made a reference to Sydney Greenstreet far up stream. That boird is the ultimate MacGuffin.

Far more unattainable than say a princess locked in a tower by a wicked witch and guarded by a fire breathing dragon.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 04:21 PM (iGP6J)

546 Leftists have spent years labeling conservatives as evil. Sometimes you have to go a little outside the lines to thwart evil.

Posted by: Duke at December 06, 2013 04:19 PM (d3clc)

Eaxctly, and now they are gearing up to label us all Confederates who want to bring back slavery. You know what Lincoln had to to to defeat those Confederates!

Posted by: rockmom at December 06, 2013 04:22 PM (Q4elb)

547 Obama at his Thuggeeist.
Just to Indyfy it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:22 PM (ZPrif)

548 Wasn't there a gag video about the Eagles flying the Hobbits to the mountain and just dumping the ring in, thus eliminating the need for three whole movies?

I never understood this criticism. When Sauron was "alive" and alert, the Eagles couldn't make it to Mount Doom. They had to get in the sneaky way. Little Hobbits on foot were outside of Sauron's concern.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:23 PM (sByIH)

549 It doesn't matter that he can't stop the oceans from rising it only matters that he said he would

Posted by: He Who Came Amongst Us at December 06, 2013 04:23 PM (1H+lb)

550 Lots of people didn't like the movie 'Sucker Punch'. I did. The main reason I liked it so much was the central character's realization that she wasn't the central character. That was new, that was different.

Anyway, life is not a movie, Obama is not the star, we are not bit players in the story of his life and this country we love is no one's MacGuffin. There won't be any scrolling credits telling usthe show's over and it'stime to go.There will be, however, the very real damage wrought by this administration.The heroes are the ones who strive to make things right again.

Posted by: troyriser at December 06, 2013 04:23 PM (2jF2B)

551 Mel Gibson murders him in cold blood noting that his immunity has been
"revoked." Cheers all around. No concern for the rule of law.

----

I believe that was Danny Glover. Gibson didn't have the moral authority.

Posted by: Biff Boffo at December 06, 2013 04:23 PM (YmPwQ)

552 Far more unattainable than say a princess locked in a tower by a wicked witch and guarded by a fire breathing dragon.




Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 04:21 PM (iGP6J)


Yeah.... like that ever happens...

Posted by: Shrek at December 06, 2013 04:24 PM (lZBBB)

553 That Bateman piece Esquire published the other day about killing all the gun-owners and NRA memebers is in this same vein.

The Left wants us dead. We are the UnPeople who deserve it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:24 PM (ZPrif)

554 >>>At the end; the evil racist South Africa declares "diplomatic immunity"
and Mel Gibson murders him in cold blood noting that his immunity has
been "revoked."<<<


Ahem. The black guy gets to kill the evil white racist.

Posted by: Roger Mutaugh (Danny glover) at December 06, 2013 04:24 PM (bvtgt)

555 All this movie and literary talk along with WWII chat, I think I should channel said energies into writing. Have fun.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 06, 2013 04:25 PM (iGP6J)

556
There was no danger in Hitler getting The Bomb either, but we didn't know that.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2013 04:13 PM (3WO2A)


I've actually had quite a lot of conversations with a WW II vet who was assigned to escort captured German Nuclear scientists, as well as being part of the team which rounded up the German nuclear material after the war.


There is some speculation that Heisenberg deliberately dragged his foot on the German Atomic bomb.


Some evidence too.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:25 PM (bb5+k)

557 That speech convinced me that Sarah Palin is a fucking genius.

They hate her because she almost cancelled their most excellent Hero Movie.

Posted by: eleven at December 06, 2013 04:25 PM (fsLdt)

558 "it availed him not at all, because he shot himself through the temple in a bunker as the Allied forces closed in around him in 1945."

PFFFFFTTTTHHHP! Everyone knows that Blondi shot Eva Braun in her sleep and then later, after a fierce petting session shot Hitler before taking cyanide herself.

Posted by: Daybrother at December 06, 2013 04:25 PM (QyrUO)

559 Wasn't there a gag video about the Eagles flying the Hobbits to the mountain and just dumping the ring in, thus eliminating the need for three whole movies?

Posted by: eleven


Again, the problem with that is Mt. Doom was under Sauron's control. He sends the flying Nazgul out, hobbits become fellbeast shit, and the ring is Sauron's.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 06, 2013 04:25 PM (uCNam)

560 Django was a snuff movie.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:25 PM (ZPrif)

561 O/T but I'm having a late lunch again & CNN is on, Mandela has had more coverage in the few hours I've seen television than Pope John Paul II had when he passed away.
Bushes are to accompany TFG & wife to funeral.0

Posted by: Carol at December 06, 2013 04:26 PM (4BXhj)

562 Watching Chris Matthews interview Obama, I was struck by just how uninterested in policy questions Matthews (and his panel) were, and how almost every question seemed to be, at heart, about Obama's emotional response to difficulties-- not about policy itself, but about Obama's Hero's Journey in navigating the plot of President Barack Obama: The Movie.

Another perfect example to of this was an interview with Hillary. This blew my mind - but, not really. Note the excuse for why he didn't ask her tough questions...

Recently, for example, Hillary Clinton has been allowing extremely wealthy people the privilege of paying her $200,000 to ask her questions. Her preferred interlocutor is Democratic heavy lifter David Rubenstein of the Carlyle Group.

...

Maggie Haberman of Politico reports that Rubenstein grilled Clinton for 30 minutes on such pressing topics as “her law school days and why she chose Yale over Harvard … how her family reacted when she moved to Arkansas; ... Rubenstein also asked Clinton if she’s ever thought about joining a private equity firm. “Is that an offer?” Clinton replied. Oh, how the audience laughed.

The accommodation with the Iranian regime did not come up during the conversation. Syria does not seem to have come up. Nor does Chinese saber rattling. ...

When Haberman asked Rubenstein why he had no questions on important diplomatic affairs for the woman who has as good a claim as any to be the next president, Rubenstein said Clinton wouldn’t have given him direct answers to such questions, so why ask them in the first place. “I’m not a journalist,” he said. “I’m a businessman.” Would the interview really have been any different otherwise? Would we actually be able to tell the difference between a softball interview by David M. Rubenstein and a softball interview by Michael D. Shear?


Basically, he mimicked Hillary.

What difference does it make?

http://freebeacon.com/dirty-pool/

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at December 06, 2013 04:26 PM (IXrOn)

563 435 Mmmm...MacGuffin

Posted by: RWC at December 06, 2013 04:02 PM (fWAjv)


Tara Reid's career?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 06, 2013 04:26 PM (oFCZn)

564 Billy Boffo: I believe that was Danny Glover. Gibson didn't have the moral authority.

Ohhhh; you're right. Extra left-wing cred.

Posted by: Duke at December 06, 2013 04:27 PM (d3clc)

565 Bushes are to accompany TFG wife to funeral.

I grok the Bushes going, but I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd spend any time at all with people who have done nothing but bash them for six years.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at December 06, 2013 04:27 PM (/kI1Q)

566 You should hear him try to say 'McGuffin' when his mouth is full with "The MacGuffin".

Posted by: Reggie Love at December 06, 2013 04:28 PM (FcR7P)

567 Has here been a movie with a Faberge Egg Macguffin?

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 06, 2013 04:28 PM (ZshNr)

568 They hate her because she almost cancelled their most excellent Hero Movie.

Posted by: eleven

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Posted by: mrp at December 06, 2013 04:29 PM (HjPtV)

569 The Left wants to see Obama kick our ass. The Left wants our blood.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:16 PM (ZPrif)


Beginning to feel the same way about them. I'm slowly becoming convinced that this will never stop until some of those bastards are gone.


Read last week that conservatives are America's "Warrior class." This comports with my understanding as well.


I don't think those drone bastards have a good grasp of the dog they are poking.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:29 PM (bb5+k)

570 Obama and the Wind Farms.

McGuffin: Thousand of dead Eagles.

Except they aren't fighting over the Eagles. Both entities are interesting in killing them to ensure the continued use of dirty, expensive wind power.

Posted by: Meremortal,, at December 06, 2013 04:29 PM (1Y+hH)

571 Igrok the Bushes going, but I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd spend any time at all with people who have done nothing but bash them for six years.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at December 06, 2013 04:27 PM (/kI1Q)

Because the Bushes are so wrapped up in noblesse oblige that they indulge those who despise them to the point of cartoony exaggeration. Would to God the GOP Establishment they represent treated the conservative base of the Republican Party with the same deference and regard.

Posted by: troyriser at December 06, 2013 04:32 PM (2jF2B)

572 Obama at his thuggiest gives them a vicarious badass thrill.

ISWYDT

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at December 06, 2013 04:32 PM (QF8uk)

573 Has here been a movie with a Faberge Egg Macguffin?

Octopussy and Ocean's Twelve come to mind.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 06, 2013 04:32 PM (sByIH)

574 Good save

Posted by: toby928© at December 06, 2013 04:34 PM (QupBk)

575 I grok the Bushes going, but I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd spend any time at all with people who have done nothing but bash them for six years.


Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at December 06, 2013 04:27 PM (/kI1Q)



Free Air Fare? Less stress on Secret Service?

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 06, 2013 04:34 PM (lZBBB)

576 and Mel Gibson murders him in cold blood noting that his immunity has been "revoked." Cheers all around. No concern for the rule of law.

Leftists have spent years labeling conservatives as evil. Sometimes you have to go a little outside the lines to thwart evil.

Posted by: Duke at December 06, 2013 04:19 PM (d3clc)


That was when I quit watching "Lethal Weapon" movies.

Gibson and Glover would have been thrown in prison by the feds long before it reached the point it did in that movie.


It's not up to two municipal cops to get away with fucking around with diplomats, and it doesn't matter what the issue is.


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:35 PM (bb5+k)

577 O.T.
So is the new Yoko Ono basically Judge *udy, or perhaps like the Menendez Brothers, basically suing anyone or anything which mentions them?

Posted by: horatio n at December 06, 2013 04:35 PM (Kxz3Y)

578 The Left wants us dead. We are the UnPeople who deserve it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 06, 2013 04:24 PM (ZPrif)


When they get around to trying it, we shall see who becomes "Un-People."


Posted by: D-Lamp at December 06, 2013 04:36 PM (bb5+k)

579 One of the key points to the analogy here, which Ace touches on (referring to Indy's illegal acts or not-great work ethic), but I think goes further, is the audience reaction to acts by the hero that "we" (not the target audience) are appalled by, see e.g. as immoral, unjust, unconstitutional, hateful, egregiously unpresidential. Do these things cause the audience to feel qualms about their hero? No, on the contrary. Especially when clearly directed at the "bad guys," the reaction is rather, glee. --------------------

It's referred to as "protagonist-centered morality". Books by the author David Eddings are a prime example of this sort of thing.

Posted by: junior at December 06, 2013 04:40 PM (UWFpX)

580 85 The point I made here yesterday is about the con-man.

Once someone has been made to pay the price of the con-man. They are changed for good with regard for the con-man. They never go back. Obamacare is real, cold, hard, reality. Pay up suckers.

Matthews, Fineman, etc. aren't paying a price. They have the luxury playing audience to their hero. It makes them feel good and costs them nothing real like cold hard cash.

Million just got the shaft. Each week millions more will have to pay the con-man and get the shaft.

Paying the con-man takes the fanboi out of the fanboi.

A fanboi is only a fanboi until it costs him directly.

There's nowhere for Obamaturd to go but downward no matter how many rich, untouched fanbois slobber over him.
---------

I think this is right. Because of obamascare the Obama movie got real for lots of "folks" and they are no longer watching the movie in the detached way necessary to maintain the Obama illusion. Kind of like how the theatre goers in Colorado thought the nut with the guns was part of the movie-until they realised he wasn't.

Posted by: Chilling the most at December 06, 2013 04:40 PM (gxtMZ)

581
Shortest transcript translation of last night's Matthews/0Bama rhetorical fondling:
"So, uhmmmm, if you want.....call me?"

Posted by: MtTB at December 06, 2013 04:43 PM (8E9QA)

582

So ... it looks like Chris Matthews stepped in a pile of still-gooey Chris Matthews ...

When will Chris Matthews follow Martin "Descended From a Long Line of Cousins" Bashir, Soledad "Big Girl" O'Brien, Queef "Bathtub Boy" Olberboy and the rest?

Is there a pool anywhere?

Posted by: Arbalest at December 06, 2013 04:43 PM (FlRtG)

583 ok, we have the bread and circus. What is going on that has to be hidden so well?

Posted by: iowaan at December 06, 2013 04:45 PM (tPywp)

584 Wasn't there a gag video about the Eagles flying the Hobbits to the mountain

By people who don't understand the concepts of Horizon and Line of Sight.

Posted by: DaveA at December 06, 2013 04:46 PM (DL2i+)

585 455
What's the McGuffin in Animal House?


Posted by: Bluto at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (Xv7f/)

At the top of the ladder.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 04:52 PM (Kkt/i)

586 The MacGuffin Reader was instrumental in my childhood education.

Posted by: Joe Biden who suspects he's smarter than you at December 06, 2013 05:05 PM (nbGZj)

587 585
455

What's the McGuffin in Animal House?




Posted by: Bluto at December 06, 2013 04:05 PM (Xv7f/)

At the top of the ladder.


Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2013 04:52 PM (Kkt/i)

********************************
I think Otter and the Dean's wife were discussing it in the grocery store.

Posted by: Hoover at December 06, 2013 05:14 PM (HubSo)

588 Brilliant Ace. Just brilliant.
Posts like this are why I read your blog regularly.

-- Bad News

Posted by: Bad News Quillan at December 06, 2013 05:17 PM (W+y/r)

589 Best Mcguffin eva pulp fictions shiny suitcase..

Posted by: marine43 at December 06, 2013 05:35 PM (KHa93)

590 MacGuffin does matter to people, real world issues I mean. But they are judged according to whether the Obama approves them.

The policies MUST be the right ones for the country, BECAUSE they come from ObamaHero. So there is no need to discuss details of Obamacare and open borders, they will be made good if the Hero runs them, and the villains will cause all the trouble.

The hero worship allows LIVs to skip learning details, and to live in fantasy land. BUT the issues themselves are not fantasy to them. The assignment of credit to Obama, and all blame to Repub's ... THAT is the fantasy part. The feel real pain, and respond with misguided anger at Republicans.

Crazy people do this ... they convince themselves of some simple "religion" ... AGW, real religions, leftist theology ... and they follow gurus ... Gore, televangelists, Obama. This makes hard issues easy, until their fake world is shattered by harsh reality. (like "your insurance is now double")

Posted by: Illini Bill at December 06, 2013 05:46 PM (V7EQG)

591 Kudos Ace,

However, just like in the Depression, movies always end and you end up in dreary reality. Obama's magic movie moments will end soon enough just so his audience can stumble into reality that resembles a typical Ingmar Bergman film. Depressing, hollow, and empty.

Posted by: wg at December 06, 2013 05:46 PM (Dg+t6)

592 Top shelf thinking, Ace. Excellent point.

Posted by: nadavegan at December 06, 2013 06:00 PM (JqzMm)

593 This is maybe the logical end of treating politics as a horse-race, as Teddy White made mainstream with his "Making of the President 1960" and several follow-on books, and is now the predominant for of political reporting.
It's all about who wins and who loses. Issues only matter to the extent they help you win or lose, they have no meaning except to the competitive contest. Good vs. Evil and whether one is Good or DEvil is not a matter of substantive policy, but style. Obama on The View, anyone?
Of course, having brain-dead liberals in the competitive mix reinforces the media's tendency to do this, because the liberals' policies are in many cases so transparently silly, stupid, counter-productive, or unpopular, the mediawould much rather focus on the horse race and the polls, and not on the substance. Their guy loses on substance, but can win on style with everyone working together to push him over the top.
Also, mastering the substance well enough to write about it is hard work, it'smuch easier to just be snarky and carry one side's water, the side that you like for reasons having little or nothing to do with subsdtance and everything to do with style (JFK, the crease in Obama's pants, Clinton's hip-ness, etc.)
That's what we the people vote for, and it won't change unless the electorate changes... and no immediate sign of THAT happening.

Posted by: mhjhnsn at December 06, 2013 06:03 PM (FZdvr)

594 Here's a specific example of economic policy qua macguffin, in this case the minimum wage hike. Article from the Federalist, "A Case Study in the Wonk Gap: Or, How a Progressive Regresses":

http://tinyurl.com/nvzl6yg

It's a perfect illustration of Ace's point. The consensus-- as of not too long ago, before Obama's election-- among most economists, including liberal economists-- including Krugman!-- was, basically, that a minimum wage hike is a bad idea. Doesn't empirically work; would have bad consequences, effects in actuality counter to its intentions. At best, it's a highly dubious idea.

Now many of those very same economists/ wonks-- notably, of course, Krugman-- have suddenly reversed opinion. Now, of course, a minimum wage hike = WIN! Boosting the economy, creating jobs. No question.

So what has changed, from then to now, to change these wonks' opinion, to change the predominant consensus?

Well, Barack Obama became POTUS, and endorsed a minimum wage hike in a SOTU speech-- and now, it's a centerpiece of his (mid-second term) campaign.

If that's the macguffin, by golly, whatever the macguffin might be, the wonks will cheer the hero on.

Posted by: lael at December 06, 2013 06:09 PM (j4QK7)

595 I have this feeling that most journalists aspired to be novelists or screenwriters but, lacking any real talent, ended up at the NYT or WaPo instead. Their understanding of the practice of writing is framed by the idea of dramatic narrative. It's all they know and it's all they care about.

Posted by: rfichoke at December 06, 2013 06:14 PM (J87gl)

596 Pulp Fiction's glowing suitcase and Repo Man's glowing car trunk both pay homage to Kiss Me Deadly, a great film noir.

Speaking of the Mexico radioactive heist.

Posted by: lael at December 06, 2013 06:16 PM (j4QK7)

597 One of Ace's best posts.

Posted by: gm at December 06, 2013 06:19 PM (/kBoL)

598 417 Can anyone think of a movie where the MacGuffin was awesome, meaningful, and/or made the movie?

I would vote for "the Book" in The Book of Eli, both for the power of the real thing, and for the fact that it turned out to be the McGuffin that wasn't.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 06, 2013 06:22 PM (Fa3Hi)

599 This post also illustrates why the GOP loses--you cannot factually respond on the merits to a McGuffin, within the plot of the movie.

Some detractor arguing that it's a waste of resources to go after the Ark, as no human can wield its power, would just be an annoyance to the film-goer.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 06, 2013 06:26 PM (Fa3Hi)

600 Very insightful, Ace. Actually, frighteningly so.

All of which ultimately leads us to Idiocracy.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at December 06, 2013 06:36 PM (eHIJJ)

601 My favorite MacGuffin movie was Ronin. They never let on what was in that damn silver case, it was just something REAL IMPORTANT!!!

Posted by: Minuteman at December 06, 2013 07:05 PM (zhFI8)

602 Ace is the greatest blogger the world has ever seen. I've always suspected it, but this post pretty much confirms it.

Posted by: Jesusland at December 06, 2013 08:26 PM (jIlzK)

603 Egg salad. The Hero Spy in "What's Up,Tigerlily?" was seeking the elusive world's best egg salad recipe.Best Spy Movie,Ever.

Posted by: Nori at December 06, 2013 08:54 PM (txdJ+)

604 Comment 49, brevity the soul of wit, and often great wisdom/revelation.

Posted by: ron n. at December 06, 2013 11:45 PM (c7HxG)

605 <delurk>
Great post again, Ace. Thanks.
</delurk>

Posted by: Arnold Fufkin at December 07, 2013 01:50 AM (tAESs)

606 Thee left loves their personality cults, don't they. Its never about policy or advancing the nation or defending the nation and the Constitution its always about Dear Leader and his amazing abilities and how we are so lucky he has deigned to lead us mere mortals as he is so much better than the rest of us.

Posted by: DrEvil007 at December 07, 2013 09:42 AM (YIriA)

607 #524
Not the "Maltese Falcon", but "Casablanca"...the letters of transit.
But even better would be "The Cheap Detective" where Peter Falk as the Bogart character trying to obtain permits to "open a 3-star French restaurant in Oakland."

Posted by: JCW at December 07, 2013 10:45 AM (0emJy)

608 This is one of the most intelligent analyses of the Obama presidency I've ever seen, and I know it will affect the way I interpret what happens during the next three years. Thank you.

Posted by: Photoguy at December 07, 2013 02:18 PM (VsDLF)

609 If you were going to issue design specifications for THIN SKIN you could be excused for submitting a picture of Barack Obama and leaving at that. Obama lashes out at provocations that George Bush laughed off. Obama flips off those who fail to revere him. Obama converts his opponents to straw men and then delights in burning them in effigy.

Obama bristles at criticism because he is a child-man without real accomplishment. He is a vicious political campaigner who knows how to shiv his enemies, but he cannot claim any achievements. None. And he knows it. He is the guy who went to the good colleges but got shitty grades. He is a bullshitter whose manufactured persona is the cool, erudite, sophisticated man. His petulance is an overcompensation for his miserable inadequacy in everything he has ever done, save campaigning...which is at its core all bullshit.

Posted by: PD Quig at December 07, 2013 02:49 PM (0f/yT)

610
"But I tell you, the satisfaction you get when you've passed a law or you've taken an executive action and somebody comes up to you and says you know what, my kid's alive because you passed that health care bill. Because he was uninsured, he got insurance, got a check up and we caught a tumor in time "
I wonder how he feels now that real people are dying because his bill caused them to lose their insurance. Does he have real feelings?

Posted by: mikulin at December 07, 2013 02:57 PM (AUchl)

611 _____________________________________

Ace,

I thoroughly enjoyed your succinct and incisive overview of MacGuffin / Hero Storytelling theory. I especially liked that you highlighted the relative irrelevancy of whatever the MacGuffin happens to be with importance of the audience's identification with the Hero as he tracks the MacGuffin down.

But to be honest, when you began to apply these storytelling theories to our contemporary politics, I thought you were wading ankle deep into oversimplification. How ironic! I thought. Ace is trying to squeeze complicated facts about the world of politics into the overused formulas of crappy Hollywood film making: in order to promote his own too-clever-by-half theory.

But pretty soon into your theory overlay, you had me convinced. Because it is not you who is distorting political facts to fit a preferred story or theory. Rather it is the media distorting those facts to maintain their Hero Concept of Obama.
Your simple observation that Mathews and his panel had virtually no interest in substantive policy issues (or, more importantly, their impact on America) but were almost exclusively focused on Obama the man and his moral struggle is a powerful one.

I only wish I knew whether these (and similar) cheer leading members of the media have the first clue that they are utterly ensconced in such a ridiculous (and corrosive) mental paradigm.
It would seem that they are either naive to the point of blindness or that they are savvy propagandists who realize they can only sell the tripe if they themselves appear to, as a matter of course, buy it themselves.
If the latter is true, I suppose that would raise the question as to why they would be so invested in consciously selling ugly tripe. If they are willing to gloss over and glide by all the substantive policy issues, then what's the point?
The best I can come up with is that it's a matter of _direction_.
They are happy to try and build back up a flailing president and his disastrous policies because he's generally headed in the 'right' direction. He serves the ultimate cause.
In that case, they realize they are caking on layer after layer of makeup to cover true ugly. - But that's okay because beyond that unfortunate ugly is ultimate justice in leftist power.
And in the process of making over the ugly, they have no problem pretending like that's not what they are doing - in order to be able to better convince LIV who happens to be listening as well as the ranks of the truly naive on their side.
- But again, I honestly cannot figure out if this is what they are doing (intentional gross manipulation of public impression) or if they are just utterly naive themselves.



Posted by: _Dave_ at December 07, 2013 02:57 PM (J+Q+d)

612 That was great, Ace. Thanks.

Posted by: SukieTawdry at December 07, 2013 07:03 PM (cZZiD)

613 Absolutely brilliant, Ace ! It's SO HARD to characterize or understand the absolute lunacy of the Leftist media.......but in the end, they LOVE the hero (Democrat), HATE the villain (Repub), and the details of the issues and consequential destruction of our economy and liberties, with excess, reckless, counter-helpful spending of our federal govt.....is NOT worth learning about, in detail. LIke a movie w/ a MacGuffin. Period. Thx Ace !!!

Posted by: steve-Oh at December 07, 2013 09:17 PM (aBNDH)

614 Ace, in reading many Comments, yes we're confused as to motives of the Liberal-media and in fact, the Liberal voters of Obama.......but one thing it comes down to is........drumroll please....... ECONOMIC-ILLITERACY OF THE LEFT

Posted by: steve-Oh at December 07, 2013 09:21 PM (aBNDH)

615 Excellent post, Ace.

What sucks for us, is that the JEF's MacGuffins are toxic to the health of this country.

Posted by: wheatie at December 08, 2013 01:37 AM (4ydWa)

616 Very good. I've noticed this for some time but Ace puts it to words well.

US culture has been becoming more emotion-based and immature over the decades. Increasingly reporters haven't asking "what happened?" at the scene of some incident but "how do you feel about what happened?" This is also seen in promotions for stories coming up on the news. They generally refer to "shocking" stories or more directly "emotional" ones.

People seem less capable of rational thought these days, perhaps because the schools no longer teach how to think, which stands to reason since they don't make the kids learn anything with which to think in the first place. They just fill the kids with false self-esteem and propaganda.

Back to the point: people just don't think these days. Emotion is easier and more rewarding in the short term because of the hormones and brain chemicals released during emotional fits. Politicians, especially on the left, are highly adept at manipulating those stimuli and making addicts out of their followers. Don't think: it might harsh your buzz, just bow down and emote.

Posted by: William at December 09, 2013 10:16 AM (7Q0Tb)

617 First--it was egg salad, as several folks have already noted. "He's addicted to egg salad--he's got a chicken on his back."

Second--Keep in mind that, as noted in a recent "Big Bang Theory," Indiana Jones' actions in the movie have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the fate of the Ark. Jones is a COMPLETE FAILURE in that movie. That may be a metaphor for Washington as well.

Posted by: Bill at December 09, 2013 12:25 PM (+VRRE)

618 Very insightful article, Ace (thanks to Geraghty for the pointer). It may be worse than you say though. Our hero received his Oscar before the movie even started. Before he had delivered his first lines, the critics were raving. That everything would be a MacGuffin was decided from the get-go. The whole thing leaves me with a sick feeling--like watching my country, even my planet, suddenly break from reality. Are these the first fruits of postmodernism?

Posted by: Ed at December 09, 2013 12:38 PM (Rq2rZ)

619 You've outdone yourself with this one, Ace. Great insight, well argued. I loved it when I first read it, and have been glad to see other outlets picking up on it.

Take that, Federalist!

Posted by: sulla at December 09, 2013 02:45 PM (0GucZ)

620 Establishment media is performing one big Lewinsky!

Posted by: Bill Colley at December 10, 2013 08:20 AM (KwETS)

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