Kenneth Bigley Beheaded in Iraq

bigley1.jpg>UPDATE: If you are looking for the latest news and information on a more recent beheading/ murder video released by the terrorist bastards, PLEASE GO TO THE MAIN PAGE HERE.

Pictured right: Image from the videotaped beheading of Kenneth Bigley.

UPDATE 10/10: Kenneth Bigley beheading video was posted today. I have seen it. It is horrible. Links to the video and images from it below.

Abu Dhabi Television reports that British hostage Kenneth Bigley has been 'executed' by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Tawid and Jihad terrorist organization. Reuters claims that UK government sources have confirmed Bigley's murder. On September 25th a message was posted on an Islamic message board claiming Ken Bigley had been beheaded [information here], but the report turned out to be false. However, today's report would be the first time a major media organization has claimed to have confirmation of Bigley's death. UPDATE: Video emerges of Bigley beheading. Links to video and images soon. Scroll down for updates.

Developing.....Expect frequent updates.

UPDATE I: Sources in Fallujah claim that Kenneth Bigley has been beheaded. Expect the release of a beheading video within the next 24 hours. Reuters:

British hostage Kenneth Bigley has been beheaded near Baghdad, insurgent sources in the rebel-held town of Falluja say. The sources said Bigley was killed on Thursday afternoon in the town of Latifiya, about 22 miles southwest of the Iraqi capital. They declined to say how they had got their information.
UDATE II: MSNBC (via Jeff Quinton) has a conflicting report about how Bigley was killed and that others might also have been killed. Is this an allusion that US or other Coalition Forces could hav been involved in a rescue attempt?
At the Pentagon, meanwhile, U.S. military sources told NBC News that they have reports from Iraq that Bigley might have been killed while trying to escape. The reports indicate that a number of "others" who might have been trying to help Bigley escape were also killed, the sources said.
UPDATE III: Al Jazeera also claiming Bigley was beheaded.

UPDATE III: Video surfaces of Bigly beheading. Reuters:

A video released by Muslim militants shows them beheading British hostage Kenneth Bigley, a Reuters witness says.

Bigley was shown making a statement as six militants stood behind him before one cut his head off with a knife.

UPDATE IV:Abu Dhabi television obtains Bigley beheading videotape. Bloomberg:
Abu Dhabi television has obtained a videotape that it says shows Bigley being beheaded by his captors, and it has decided not to broadcast the tape of the killing, said a network spokesman who asked not to be identified.
UPDATE V:Kenneth Bigley's brother blames Blair, has "blood on his hands." Reuters:
The brother of British hostage Kenneth Bigley said on Friday that Prime Minister Tony Blair had "blood on his hands".

In a statement to anti-Iraq war activists, issued after he had heard reports of his brother's apparent death, Paul Bigley said: "Please, please stop the war and prevent other lives being lost.

"It is illegal, it has to stop. Mr Blair has blood on his hands."

UPDATE VI: Bigley's family has proof that Ken is dead. What is so odd about this is that the British government cannot yet confirm Bigley's death, yet his family ca. The victim's younger brother, Paul Bigley, recently had his home Dutch Intelligence officers and his computer was siezed [details here] amidst allegations that Bigley's family was communicating with the terrorists. Reuters:
His brother said on Friday that Bigley had been killed, confirming earlier reports coming out of Iraq. "We can confirm that the family has now received absolute proof that Ken Bigley was executed by his captors," Phil Bigley, Ken's younger brother, said in a televised statement.
UPDATE VII: Blair reacts. No matter how much revulsion you think you feel upon hearing the news, when you see the video or images of it your revulsion level will reach unimaginable heights. Reuters:
"I feel utter revulsion at the people who did this, not just at the barbaric nature of the killing but the way frankly they played with the situation over the past few weeks," Blair told reporters on Friday. "I feel a strong sense, as I hope others do, that the actions of these people whether in Iraq or elsewhere should not prevail over people like Ken Bigley."
UPDATE VII: Allawi reacts. Reuters:
"This is a horrible, barbaric act," Allawi told Reuters. "We are determined to pursue those terrorists who killed Mr Bigley and put them on trial as soon as possible."

Allawi said there had been intense efforts to secure the release of the 62-year-old engineer, but no attempt to rescue him by force.

Asked if he knew why the kidnappers had chosen to kill Bigley at this time, he said: "Their intention from the start was to kill him, but they were trying to exploit this matter for a long time for publicity. Their intention was to kill him."

UPDATE VIII:Allawi claims no rescue attempt, but admits that security forces were sweeping area where Bigley was being held. Jon, of Gam Blog, tells me that British media are reporting that Coalition forces were getting near the safe-house Zarqawi was holding Bigley in. It is also being reported that a US bomb may have struck a Tawid and Jihad meeting in the neighborhood. These events may have scared Zarqawi enough that he decided to execute Bigley on the spot.

But make no mistake, Zarqawi would have killed Bigley sooner or later. The only reason Bigley lasted the 22 days in captivity that he did was because Zarqawi found the Brittish public so easily manipulated by his propaganda. Bigley's life was a propaganda tool in Zarqawi's hands. His death must not be forgotten, and his murderers hunted down like the vermin they are.

UPDATE IX: Straw confirms Biglye death, admits that contact had been made with terrorists, refuses to comment when asked if more than Bigley dead. Scotsman:

Four days ago, an individual approached the British Embassy in Baghdad, presenting himself as a potential intermediary with the captors,” he said.

“It was very clearly in Mr Bigley’s interest that we should do all we could to establish contact.

“Messages were exchanged with the hostage-takers in an attempt to dissuade them from carrying out their threat to kill Mr Bigley.

“But at no stage did they abandon their demands relating to the release of women prisoners, even though they were aware that there are no women prisoners in our custody in Iraq.

“Both the Prime Minister and I approved these communications and endorsed their content, which was in line with the public statements which both of us had made.

“Ken Bigley’s family in Liverpool and his wife in Thailand were kept fully aware of our communications with this intermediary.

“This afternoon, as you all know, the intermediary has provided us with proof beyond reasonable doubt that Ken Bigley’s captors have carried out their threat.

“Our hearts and prayers go out to Ken Bigley’s family, his colleagues and friends.”

UPDATE X: Requium Mass held for Kenneth Bigley in Liverpool.

UPDATE XI--Oct. 9th: Yesterday I played down reports that Kenneth Bigley had attempted to escape before he was murdered by [original Kenneth Bigley post here]. Today, multiple sources confirm that Bigley had attempted to escape before Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Tawid and Jihad terrorist organization beheaded him. The interesting question, here, is how did the Iraqi authorities and MSNBC, who carried the story yesterday, get this information? Washington Times:

The British engineer who was held three weeks by Islamic extremists in Iraq before being beheaded managed to escape shortly before his video-taped murder.

Apparently, one of his captors helped Ken Bigley escape in the town of Latifiya, southwest of Baghdad, where he was being held, the BBC reported Saturday.

But he was recaptured about 30 minutes later and soon thereafter beheaded while a video camera taped the killing, Iraqi officials told his family.

UPDATE XII--Oct. 9th: Neither Abu Musab al-Zarqawi nor Islamic bulletin boards have posted the Kenneth Bigley beheading video yet. What is unique about this particular video is that the terrorists did give the video to al-Jazeera, their normal method of disseminating the initial video. Their normal MO is to then post the video to one of several Islamic bulletin boards, followed by posting the video to one of several websites closely associated with Zarqawi. Is this a good sign that Zarqawi is on the run and unable to take the time to get the video online? I hope so. Better yet, I hope he's dead.

UPDATE XIII--Oct. 9th: Bigley body found? One report says his body was found, but it conflicts with all other reports.

UPDATE XIV--Oct. 10th: Beheading video of Kenneth Bigley was posted to an Islamic bulletin board today. I have posted images from it below. The following are two links to the video, both are horribly graphic and should not be seen by minors. You can view the video in Real Player format by clicking here (courtesy of the Northeast Intelligence Network). The video can also be downloaded in Windows Media format by going to the Terrorist Media site, although you must sign up for a free password. Transcripts of Bigley's last words can be found atDiggers Realm or Blogs of War. The video is truly gruesome. In the video, Bigley seems unaware of his impending death. Instead, he pleas one last time for Tony Blair to give the terrorists what they want. Unfortunately for Ken Bigley, what the terrorists want is a world-wide Islamic state. A state where freedom of religion is a thing of the past. A state where Hindus and Buddhists are forced to convert or be killed. A state where Christians and Jews are second class citizens, what Muslims call dhimmis. [Hat tip: Digger who e-mailed me about it.]

Below: Images from the video. Graphic images in extended entry.

bigleytitle.jpg bigley2.jpg

GRAPHIC IMAGES OF THE VIDEO ARE BELOW. Warning, do not proceed. What follows will make you angry. Very angry.
Other information: Digger's Realm, Backcountry Conservative, Blogs of War, Six Meat Bufet, I Love Jet Noise, Outside the Beltway, Classical Values, ConsterNations, Wizbang, Rooftop Report, The Laughing Wolf, In the Bullpen, Rambling's Journal, Marrtini Pundit, Gam Blog UK, In Search of Utopia, Passionate America, Slant Point, Right on Red

Images follow the timetable. Last chance. Do not proceed further!!

Kenneth Bigley hostage timetable, as reported by the Telegraph:

Thursday, Sept 16: Kenneth Bigley and two Americans - Jack Hensley and Eugene Armstrong - are seized by militants in a dawn raid in the wealthy Al-Mansour district of Baghdad.

Friday, Sept 17: Mr Bigley's family release a statement speaking of their grief at his abduction and begging the kidnappers to release the 62-year-old from Liverpool.

Saturday, Sept 18: Muslim extremists threaten to kill Mr Bigley and his two American colleagues within 48 hours if their demands are not met to free women prisoners in Iraq.

Monday, Sept 20: Mr Armstrong is executed. The militants delay their threats to kill Mr Bigley and Mr Hensley for a further 24 hours.

Tuesday, Sept 21: Mr Hensley is beheaded.

A Foreign Office spokesman says the Government will not change its stance and give in to the kidnappers.

Liverpool's Muslim and Christian leaders join forces in an urgent mercy appeal for Mr Bigley and his American colleague not to be executed - an appeal echoed by the Muslim Council of Britain.

Wednesday, Sept 22: A video of Mr Bigley making a direct plea to Mr Blair to save his life is posted on an Islamic website.

Thursday, Sept 23: Mr Bigley's wife, Sombat, and elderly mother, Lil, appear for the first time to make personal appeals for his release.

Friday, Sept 24: Thousands of leaflets carrying heartfelt written pleas for help from Mr Bigley's family are distributed in Baghdad.

Saturday, Sept 25: Reports on an al-Qa'eda-linked group website claiming that Mr Bigley had been killed are dismissed by the Foreign Office as coming from a "discredited" source.

A two-man Muslim Council of Britain delegation lands in Iraq aiming to meet religious leaders and urge the community to put pressure on the kidnappers.

Tuesday, Sept 28: Two Italian women aid workers held hostage for three weeks in Iraq are freed.

Wednesday, Sept 29: The Prime Minister insists he is doing "absolutely everything" to secure the release of Mr Bigley.

A communique posted on the website Al Qalah.com claims that Mr Bigley is to be freed imminently.

A tearful Mr Bigley appears kneeling behind bars in a new video recording shown on al-Jazeera and claims his captors do not want to kill him. He accuses Mr Blair of doing nothing to secure his release and brands him a liar.

Friday, Oct 1: More than 100,000 leaflets, each containing a personal plea from Mr Bigley's family, are distributed in Baghdad.

Saturday, Oct 2: Paul Bigley says he is looking into reports that a new Iraqi militant group has intervened to help negotiate the engineer's release.

Sunday, Oct 3: Members of the Gaddafi family pledge to support efforts to free Mr Bigley.

Tuesday, Oct 5: The Irish Government issues Mr Bigley with an Irish passport in an attempt to secure his release.

Friday, Oct 8: British Diplomats say they are investigating reports that Mr Bigley is dead following reports on Abu Dhabi Television that he had been killed by his captors.

LAST CHANCE!!! Beheading images follow!! Warning, do not proceed!!

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Posted by: Rusty at 08:04 AM

Comments

1 I first saw anything on this story on TV and they mentioned nothing of the beheading - only about the killed while escaping stuff I mentioned in my post. When I got online I noticed I had email from Diggers Realm from his post apparently before the TV report I saw, which said beheaded.

At this point it still seems to be up in the air.

Posted by: Jeff at October 08, 2004 08:20 AM (VxoRA)

2 Thanks Jeff, I'll look into it. So much happening so fast.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 08, 2004 08:22 AM (JQjhA)

3 My heart jumped in my throat! I'm trying to contain myself about this, as I also saw that rumors were spreading that Roger Moore and William Shatner both had passed away....ends up being BS too.

I haven't heard anything at all...have the news on now. Remember when they said those two Italian gals were beheaded too?

If it is true about Bigley, my heart goes out to him, as surely he must have suffered the most...waiting all these weeks for his grisly fate.

Those bastards!!!!!!

Posted by: Laura at October 08, 2004 08:25 AM (ptOpl)

4 Apparently they killed Bigley by beheading yeasterday in a place called Latifa because of the Americans latest action in Fallujah, the lack of negotiation by the British Govt and also because they ran out of time and space to keep Ken while under so much pressure from "infidel forces".

A video has been shown on Abu Dhabi TV of Our Ken's beheading.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 08, 2004 09:11 AM (O4UDt)

5 Yeah, whatever. If it wasn't those excuses it would have been something else.

Posted by: Digger at October 08, 2004 09:34 AM (FYEx6)

6 Yip.

Kens body has been found apparently.

Now the word is it's our fault nutters are on the loose in Iraq like Zarqawi because we took out the Iraqi secret police.

Apparently we should have left atleast some lower level secret Iraqi police in place o deal with outsiders like Zarqawi.

It just gets more ridiculous by the minute.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 08, 2004 09:53 AM (O4UDt)

7 Muslims beware.........your time on earth is short. There is a 5.56 for every one of your stinking heads. Your"Lions " have butchered an old man with his hands tied behind his back. Something to be proud of huh?.......Count your last days Muslim scum.

Posted by: Crusader at October 08, 2004 10:03 AM (Chgv/)

8 The net is closing in on Zarqawi. Apparently he nearly got it yesterday from a US airstrike that killed 11 of his henchmen while a meeting was taking place in a safe house.

He will be caught.

Of that much I am confident enough.. 4-6 on it will be Zarqawi in a bodybag, 6-4 in an orange overall.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 08, 2004 10:12 AM (O4UDt)

9 They need to catch that motherfucker, not nail with with a bomb. Then slice him down the middle and feed his own innards to him. Then send the video into that fucking Al-jazeera.

Posted by: Citizen at October 08, 2004 10:32 AM (48UUw)

10 Damn it all.... Too much feeling for words.... I grow more and more hateful everyday towards an entire religion. It seems that the book of revelations may be coming to pass.

Chris

Posted by: Chris at October 08, 2004 10:42 AM (tBIHL)

11 Damn it all.... Too much feeling for words.... I grow more and more hateful everyday towards an entire religion. It seems that the book of revelations may be coming to pass.

Chris

Posted by: Chris at October 08, 2004 10:42 AM (tBIHL)

12 Are Bush and Kerry due for another duel tonight?

Seems to me to be too much of a coincidence to be coincidental.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 08, 2004 10:50 AM (O4UDt)

13 Is there any video footage out there?

Posted by: Olie at October 08, 2004 11:01 AM (cGQgj)

14 Where do we find the video ???

Posted by: tttk at October 08, 2004 11:55 AM (Xkwsb)

15 where can i find the video of the beheading

Posted by: viper at October 08, 2004 12:56 PM (wfc3S)

16 You sick people. Why do you want to see the video?!!

Posted by: mark at October 08, 2004 01:19 PM (nXo2e)

17 I tried to write something constructive and then found myself just wanting to shoot the bastards myself.God Bless the American families who have had to cope with there loss of 2 people caught up in this shit. God Bless to Ken's family for there strength in this situation.Mine and other's prayers have not been answered.Is there a God ?

Posted by: Steve at October 08, 2004 01:24 PM (sjGRm)

18 I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope these people who have done this to Ken rot in hell.


My heart bleeds for his family... You have all my thoughts and sadness with you all right now. God bless you Ken Bigley, rest in peace... at least you're not being tortured now.

Posted by: Hayley at October 08, 2004 01:28 PM (Xr0iG)

19 I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope these people who have done this to Ken rot in hell.


My heart bleeds for his family... You have all my thoughts and sadness with you all right now. God bless you Ken Bigley, rest in peace... at least you're not being tortured now.

Posted by: Hayley at October 08, 2004 01:28 PM (Xr0iG)

20 I have read some more of the comments that you have made about this article. Why the fuck are you starting to hate Muslims you racist bastards?! Just because some stupid nutcase terrorists decided to take hostages and kill them dosn't mean you have to hate their religion!! If the terrorists were of the same religion as you would you hate that religion aswell? Also, if you hadn't noticed, this damn war was started by the stupid americans and us stupid british, and no matter what the government say, they knew there were never any WMD in Iraq, the may have wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussain but allof us must realise that the main reason that we wanted to go to the Middle East is for the oil. As with any other conflict throughout history, no-one goes to war unless there is something in it for them. The war and the after-math (terrorism, hostage taking, beheading etc.) is all the fault of the stupid government going to war. Don't blame an entire religion for the actions of come twats who's soul aim is to bring down the Western world. The racist comments above remind me of something Hitler would have said. Racist bastards.

Posted by: Mark at October 08, 2004 01:31 PM (6MUgJ)

21 I didn't realize it was Muslim religion that sanctifies beheading innocent people in a most savage way. You don't slaughter animals the way these terrorists ( Muslims ) have been doing.

Posted by: Trojan at October 08, 2004 01:37 PM (FF8EC)

22 I didn't realize it was Muslim religion that sanctifies beheading innocent people in a most savage way. You don't slaughter animals the way these terrorists ( Muslims ) have been doing.

Posted by: Trojan at October 08, 2004 01:39 PM (FF8EC)

23 these people are'nt even from iraq .they say they freedom fighters they'er not my paryers and thoughts go out to the familes and friends and the people who let them down

Posted by: silly at October 08, 2004 01:46 PM (2oVzZ)

24 What's worse being hanged or beheaded?

Posted by: Big Daddy at October 08, 2004 01:47 PM (s6c4t)

25 Hey MARK!!!
These muslims that are committing these acts are doing so under the guise that ALLAH wants them to cleanse the earth of all non believers. READ the kuran. Know what that book says, and what the muslim plan is. At the very least the extremist muslim plan. These terrorists are working towards getting into heaven via killing innocent people. THAT is wrong, and is the reason that people are beginning to see the Muslims in a different light. All the actions of these terrorists reflect directly on the entire religion as it is the religion that they are quoting, and using as their reason for killing so many innocent people. For Gods Sake they are killing their own women, children, and other innocent Iraqis, and fellow Muslims. The religion has to bare some of the responsibility for nurturing, and allowing people like these to even exist. There are many that know where they hide. Why don't these other peace loving Muslims turn them in?? Where do you draw the line as to who is to blame?? Don't take the easy route and blame the U.S., and Britain. It is the core of the religion that is wrong. Extremist muslims perhaps..... but Muslim all the same.

Posted by: Chris at October 08, 2004 01:56 PM (WmbB/)

26 I would think being beheaded would be worse.
But it would also depend on the size of the knife.

Posted by: Chad at October 08, 2004 02:02 PM (la8jb)

27 By the way Mark..... I forgot to mention that Hitler wanted to cleanse the Earth of some people too. Sound familiar??

Chris

Posted by: Chris at October 08, 2004 02:04 PM (WmbB/)

28 I THINK IRAQ SHOULD BE WHIPED OUT!!!! DROP FUCKING BOMB!!!! Poor Ken, why they kill him for?? NO BLOODY REASON. Iraq need to sort out, stupid IRAQ

Posted by: Chris at October 08, 2004 02:10 PM (o9v5b)

29 Excuse me mark... who is picking on muslims?? no one is...we're expressing our feelings, ok? and it's a free country and we can do what we want..... and we are not racist bastards, ok? so stop being paranoid

Posted by: Hayley at October 08, 2004 02:10 PM (Xr0iG)

30 Fuck all the sand niggers. Let just one of those cowards fuck with me on my land, and I'll feed the towel headded sand nigger his own liver, before I cut out his eyes and feed them to pigs!

NUKE ALL THE SAND NIGGERS!!!!!

Posted by: Old Rebel at October 08, 2004 02:15 PM (AaBEz)

31 We have to win the WAR ON TERROR. Vote for BUSH and he will win the war against these TERRORIST sons-a-bitches!

Posted by: Wild Bill at October 08, 2004 02:19 PM (ni17g)

32 NUKE THE IRAQ!!!!

Posted by: chris at October 08, 2004 02:20 PM (o9v5b)

33 We need to catch him. Then when he's in custody keep him in a cell that's just too short for him to stand up or stretch out in.

Then we must force feed him pork every day.

You say it's not Muslims doing this, you may be right, but where are all the "moderate" clerics issuing Fatwa's against this barbaric beast? Where are the fatwas decrying and denouncing the acts of bombing innocents and their own countrymen? Where are the fatwas encouraging peaceful relations?

Yah, I haven't seen any either. So unless the Muslim world stands against this barbarism by their inaction they are standing for it.

Posted by: B52GUNR at October 08, 2004 02:21 PM (isG+j)

34 I am reading those comments that are so full of hatred,reading about all the things you would do to "those bastards",you know,it is that same kind of hatred that they feel that enables them to do such crimes,the reason for that hatred is the crimes that the American and British goverments have been committing for years in the middle east,why are all the children and women killed in Iraq and the men humiliated and tortured not an issue,but the killing of that one man is? If you accept your hatred to be just then theirs is too,my heart is torn apart for the pain this man and his family have gone through,and also for all the equally innocent people killed by the Americans and the British,both are equally disgusting and done by criminals.

Posted by: Maya at October 08, 2004 02:45 PM (hmFvz)

35 Ok now I'm sick and very depressed as well. Nuke the motherfuckers! What the fuck else is there left to do? Hold hands and pray for peace????

I DID pray, look what happened! Every week at Mass, we send requests to pray for all our personnel serving in the Mid East, to keep them safe, blah, blah, blah. What the fucK GOOD DOES IT DO????

These motherfuckers don't give a shit about anything. They let poor Ken go on for how many weeks now? They planned on killing him from day 1, they just let the saga play out to show what they can do!!!!!

Revelations, indeed.

I'm disgusted.

Posted by: Laura at October 08, 2004 02:55 PM (ptOpl)

36 I'm with Mark. Chris, I think you are a shockingly ignorant and thoroughly stupid racist individual. It is in the nature of extremists to select religious texts which suit their extreme ends. Have a look at Leviticus - eating shellfish is an abomination apparantly, but take the bible as a whole and you may find, as many followers do (not me, I'm an atheist but, unlike you Chris, I respect people's right to believe) that the book promotes peace and love. Islam promotes peace and love. What you are doing in your frankly disgusting posts Chris, is adopting an extremist position not very unlike that of the terrorists you criticise. Do you seriously think for one second that Ken Bigley would give ignorant idiots like you, 'B52GUNR' (how intelligent!)and 'Old Rebel' the time of day? Of course not, and neither should anyone else. Do us all a favour and keep your pathetic, ignorant hatred to yourselves. Muslims are NOT to blame for the death of Ken Bigley. Ignorance, extremism and terrorism is, and you would do well to bear in mind the fact that what the British and US governments have done in so wrongly waging war on Iraq is not so very different, just on a much larger scale. So Chris - please - try THINKING (and I mean really thinking, not just mimicking the views of your extremist friends just because you think it's cool) before you post anything else because your efforts so far don't really differentiate you from the terrorists you so claim to despise.

Posted by: Cas at October 08, 2004 03:12 PM (C9zrG)

37 Ok, how can we see the video, when they said they weren't going to televise this one? They said they weren't going to release a video this time, I've just read somewhere.

Posted by: Laura at October 08, 2004 03:16 PM (ptOpl)

38 Yep,nuke!!!
You are so stupid you should be put to sleep.
100% sure americans writing this.

I pray every day god will put his fury over your people one day and let the world be free again.

Posted by: hoyori at October 08, 2004 03:17 PM (Xkwsb)

39 Maya, What the fuck do you know, before we went in who was killing and slaughtering their own people, Sadam Hussain, so why do we then become the babarians for stopping this. These people are sick and will stop at nothing to kill innocent people and they all go by the Koran. Also why are the other muslims not condoning this, because he is British, listening to them speak and rant on about how they condone this but understand why it was done. What did they have before we came to help not freedom I can assure you of that. My heart goes out to the Bigley family and may the persecuters rot in hell....

Posted by: Hatred at October 08, 2004 03:20 PM (8GxFh)

40 Right, hoyori, I am so stupid I should be put to sleep? Because I am defending my country and those poor hostages who met a grisley death? You are "so sure Americans are writing this"...where are YOU from? I am proud to say I'm an American, so come out from behind your computer screen and tell us who YOU are.

If we don't look out for ourselves, who the hell will? Innocent people die all the time in the name of war and religion, look at the innocent victims of 9/11?

It is not a crime to defend your country. These senseless beheadings have to stop.



Posted by: Ltb3105 at October 08, 2004 03:38 PM (ptOpl)

41 Yes, it is difficult not to condemn an entire race/religion for this butchery. I do not intend to do so. But they are coming for us. They are coming for our weakest targets. They are coming for our women and children. They are Muslim. They are between the ages of 16 and 40. They are mostly male, but some could be female as well. The majority are from the middle east countries.

We found floor and architectural plans of several US schools in the possession of an Iraqi insurgent terrorist. Spetnaz comuniques indicate that they rushed the school in Belsan because the Islamic terrorists were beheading the children.

The international muslim community remains virtually silent save for a few mild condemnations. Words of praise to "allah" and the martyrs appear with regularity on muslim websites; for 911, for suicide bombings, for Iraqi insurgents, for the bombings at the Taba Hilton, and yes, for the "holy jihadists 'executing' the infidel crusader". They praise "allah" and pray for many more such actions that "cause the death of zionist pigs and their supporters". That's us folks. These are the facts.

They are coming. Will we be ready? Will you be ready?

Posted by: romeodelta24 at October 08, 2004 03:40 PM (qBXGK)

42 it should have been finished when i was on op granby in 91 lets look for brit choagies who support these cunts and slice their heads off with a blunt rusty knife no surrender

Posted by: jonnnyfiretrap at October 08, 2004 03:44 PM (31vLZ)

43 'Hatred' (ooohh, Joseph at hotmail, how inventive you are) you are really nothing but a silly ignorant little tosser. Do everyone a favour and SHUT UP. 'romeodelta24' you can shut up too, you moron. Laura, sort yourself out. "Nuke them" indeed. Get a grip girl.

Posted by: Cas at October 08, 2004 03:48 PM (C9zrG)

44 Oh come on,you can't be so naive and say that the Americans went to this illegal war to protect Iraqi's from Saddam,America supported Saddam for ages and supplied him with chemichal weapons in the past,this is no secret,that war was a nasty war for the oil that America is running out of,what's the difference between Saddam and the American occupation in the end? They both murdered innocents claiming they are doing it for the good of the Iraqis!!! Both bastards and murderes as far as i am concerned and the only victims are the innocents,you don't bloody liberate a country by killing and torturing it's people and bombing their cities!!!! The hatred i am seeing in this discussion is disgusting really,it's this kind of extreme hatred that led to the murder of this man,if you feel you are entitled of cultivating hatred and acting it out then the families of the thousands of Iraqis and Palestinians whose families were murdered are too indeed,where does this leave us?? And those who are so eager to see the video of this horrible tragedy..why on earth are you so eager ?

Posted by: Maya at October 08, 2004 03:53 PM (hmFvz)

45 Cas Get a life you fucking wanker, Civilised countries are not at war, they try to help bring peace. People with your frame of mind should be shot, no better throat cut. People like you condone this for what a better life, do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up. Killing people has never been written in one religous bible. What does it prove you are harder, I think it proves you are just a barbaric little tooser

Posted by: Hatred at October 08, 2004 03:57 PM (8GxFh)

46 RETORT TO CAS

Please feel free to dispute my facts. Whereas I will concur that vituperative emotional outbursts seeking the demise of one's perceived enemies may indeed be cathartically therapeutic; they serve a counterproductive purpose. I believe that I have stated the facts of the matter. It is apparent that we are flushing out the Islamic terror element in Iraq. It will continue to be a difficult and lengthy process; especially when we consider the potential of the enemy within our borders.

Please consider this. Never before in the history of the world has a country proportionally as powerful as the USA existed and not used its position to conquer, occupy and subjugate. The USA is the only country in the world (save England; of course I consider them to be a suburb!) to risk and expend the lives of its precious young men and women for the freedom of others. When you are oppressed, we help. When you are hungry, we send food. When you are sick, we send medicine and only ask in return that you live in accord with the other countries of the world.

I thank the God of Abraham, Issac and Joseph and Him incarnate, Jesus the Christ, for the courage of our president, George W. Bush and each and every dignified and professional US soldier, sailor and marine protecting us both here and in country. A big "HOO-YAH" to all of them. WE ARE READY.

Posted by: romeodelta24 at October 08, 2004 04:11 PM (qBXGK)

47 I know the men who killed me are animals and they truly need to be dealt with in the harshest way but I was a greedy man and was in Iraq to make cash and my government advised me to stay the fuck out but I thought I knew better. I knew the risks and took a chance and lost so I really cant blame Blair as I was damn well warned. I was a greedy fucker and and ignored my embassies warnings.

Posted by: ken bigley at October 08, 2004 04:14 PM (06Z2u)

48 Remember one thing, "war has no rules".

Posted by: pipesmkr at October 08, 2004 04:30 PM (dkoWy)

49 Oh that was really great "ken bigley"! So, he deserved it? I am not even going there, your post was so infantile.

Cas, YOU get a grip! What the fuck do you think we've been doing all these years?? We've done nothing but HELP people, and what do we get for it? We should stay the hell out of these places, the hell with getting their freedom..what about our freedom? Are WE really free, with all the security lines at the airports....I took my youngest to a disney show and they even searched the kids' diaper bags!!!! If you call that freedom, you're all sadly mistaken.

These are not humans...they are not even animals..animals act on instinct and have no conscience. These bastards know what they are doing, and if they think their God preaches to kill, then they are not worthy of the "real" God and must be dealt with.

What do you advise doing? Just sitting around on our asses and let the killing continue? And please, no more remarks about "if only Bush didn't invade them, this wouldn't have happened"....all bullshit! Iraq is involved with Al Qaeda, Saddam is involved too, don't let them fool you. Zarqawi trained in Afghanistan and traveled all around the place and ended up in Iraq. So if you don't think they were involved with 9/11, think again.


Think of the 3,000 or so vicitms, some are buried under the sidewalks of NYC, ashes, ashes, everywhere!

Never forget.

Posted by: Laura at October 08, 2004 04:36 PM (ptOpl)

50 this is one screwed up religion which states in some words that it is ok to kill a innocent man who was just doing his job.
he was tied up and killed, what a bunch of fucking faggits to grab some one run away and then kill then while there tied up!!!!!
all extreme muslims should be shot instantly!! and if any of you read this i hope you have the balls to come over to england and fight like men!!!! then we will cut you up with a knife and show your disinbowlment on al jazeera, you fucking faggits!!! i hope your mother sucks cocks in hell when i kill her!!!

Posted by: Proud2bBritish at October 08, 2004 04:42 PM (khsjt)

51 To the person who subscribed as 'ken bigley,' all I can say is that as al-Zarqawi and his followers disgraced that poor man in life, you sink to a lower level and disgrace him in death. I'm not sure why you would want to purposefully do this, but if you want to exist at their level and cloak yourself in anominity as you have, then you are hardly different from the murderers you implicitly support,the cowardly killers of innocent old men that they are. Be proud of the meaningless place in history you will eternally hold.

Posted by: just one person at October 08, 2004 04:44 PM (tgI8Z)

52 PIPESMKR:

I guess you know nothing of war. Generally we like to keep attrition to enemy combatants, resources and the like. Even in the grey areas we would simply use one round to the back of the head. If indeed killing can be called merciful, that certainly would qualify.

Sawing the head off of a bound, innocent, aged civilian contractor is hardly "war". It is, at best, barbaric butchery. In reality, it is sadistic. It is indeed sad that you cannot tell the difference.

Posted by: romeodelta24 at October 08, 2004 04:45 PM (qBXGK)

53 Extreme muslims should all be taken away out of society and killed without any discussion. The whole Islam faith is corrupt and evil i believe, from their sexist backward converting beliefs to there terriorist ways of "getting to paradise" as they would say or doing it for Allah, your all a joke!

Posted by: Truth hurts don't it! at October 08, 2004 04:52 PM (Todn2)

54 Hatred, is your real name Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? It's just that he likes to cut people's throats too - you seem to have quite a lot in common. Hopefully the intelligent people posting here would agree that hatred - in all forms, not just psuedonyms (look it up Hatred, should your twin Ignorance (romeodelta perhaps?!) be causing you to scratch your head at an unfamiliar word)is fundamentally wrong and fundamentally stupid. Just like you. Just wondered - how old are you? 13? And tell me, what exactly led you to believe that I am a "barbaric little tosser"? I believe in peace, not war. I am five foot nine. And I do not possess the genitalia to enable me to indulge in the gender specific variety masturbation you seem to be alleging. romeodelta24, I do think that you are blinkered in the peculiarly American patriotic way that gives the US such a bad name. But I appreciate your attempts at linguistic prowess. 'Vituperative' is a fabulous word. It's such a shame that you had to spoil it with your "Hoo Yah" though. Never mind, better luck next time. Oh - and I should add that you might like to check your understanding of history - much as I love my fellow English people, it has never been *just* England and America fighting for freedom. For example, the French were actually in the front line during the first Iraq war, and countless nations have stood up to facism and despotism in the past. Generally the US has arrived at the party last to claim all the glory with minimum risk (see WW2 for details) but I suppose this war is a little different because Haliburton had its oil interests to protect and you wanted to get in there first... oh, and please advise - what "freedom" were you guys fighting for in Vietnam??

Posted by: Cas at October 08, 2004 04:56 PM (C9zrG)

55 It's not that people who want to see the beheading are sick, I believe it's simple curiousity, this does not make us sick in any way. These things with no remorse, I call them (the terrorist) things because I cannot find an appropriate definition for them. I wouldn't dare insult the animal kingdom by referring to them as animals, are so mad, I believe a lot of people are in disbelieve that humans are capable of these attrosities. Maybe viewing the video helps them beleive and hopefully pray and offer the family of the victims the most sincere sympathy!

Posted by: Izzy at October 08, 2004 04:58 PM (qEbXg)

56 hey! i feel sorry for the old fucker and his family but he was aware of the risks.Becouse the greedy idiot wanted to risk it he is now dead and im sure that the has been a lot of marines who have risked there lives in order to find him just becouse he though he knew best? forget all that shit about "oh ken wanted to help iraq" bullshit, he wanted to to line his own pocket and then his family bitch about blair and expect troops to risk there lives for him. i truly feel sorry for ken but............he knew the score and greed took him to iraq

Posted by: ken bingley at October 08, 2004 05:00 PM (06Z2u)

57 Laura - do you *really* believe that it is appropriate to honour the memory of the victims of 9/11 by starting a nuclear conflict which would take out the rest of the living planet? Honestly? Or have I misunderstood what you meant by your comment "nuke them"?? I find your views on freedom and your anger at the restrictions on it interesting. Most of this planet don't have enough to eat, let alone be able to afford diapers for their children or to go to disneyland. I don't think you appreciate just how privileged you actually are. Did you perhaps mean "nuke them" as in bomb their homes, or drop it directly onto the individuals involved, what? Do you think you can bomb anywhere without killing and maiming innocent people? Do you believe that the lives of Iraqi children are somehow less worthy than those of american children? Of course I don't advise sitting and doing nothing. I believe in trying to find a peaceful political solution to conflict through dialogue. I don't think that violence is a solution, and that has been clearly demonstrated by what has happened in Iraq. If you truly, honestly believe that the best way forward is to "nuke" people then I feel incredible sorry for you and fervently hope that you are never ever elected to any position of power. The US doing nothing but help people? PLEASE!!! You're taking a very insular view. Try less Disney, more trips to the library - it might help.

Posted by: Cas at October 08, 2004 05:09 PM (C9zrG)

58 Oh great, now we're fighting amongst ourselves and there's a definite UK V USA argument going on here.

I'm from the UK and I love my country but I sure as hell am glad that we're similar in our culture to the USA because I really wouldn't want to be next in the USA's gun-sights.

This is a cultural war, don't be so surprised at these people's methods. The methods are barbaric because these people are barbaric. It's the kind of stuff us English used to do up until maybe a few hundred years ago.

These people are still in their own "Dark Ages".

It will either take a few hundred years for them to catch up (by which time we'll all have fucked off to Mars or something anyway) or a well aimed bullet to their heads.

The Muslim religion could really use some more "guidance" from Allah at this stage, maybe he would like to send some word down about what he REALLY meant when he said "kill all infidels" and stuff like that.

These nutters are really giving the guy a bad name.

As for Ken Bigley, I really do think his death could cause a lot of trouble here in the UK. I hope I am wrong but there could be a few murders going on in the next few days. Especially in his native Liverpool.



Posted by: Red Devil at October 08, 2004 05:14 PM (sRfMX)

59 I have been feeling really sick since i read about the murder today,but please would any of you explain to me why none of you gives a damn when thousands of civilians were/are murdered in Iraq by the armies/leaders that you praise and find it a horrible crime (which it is) that this poor man was murdered,i mean why the double standards?? Why do some life have no value while others do? Why is it less of a terrorist attack leading an illegal war where innocents are murdered than it is when the murdered ones are American or British? How would you feel if your country is being bombed and children murdered by an army that came from half the way across the world claiming "liberation"??

Posted by: Maya at October 08, 2004 05:17 PM (hmFvz)

60 I am a terrorist and I am a disgrace to all of Islam! Mighty Allah All Merciful Allah I beg you! I have taken my religion and created my own idiology to commit unspeakable crimes against humanity! The daily bloodshed of my people is my doing and I am responsible for all of it. I am a living blasphemy to my people and to my faith and I deserve to die a thousand deaths! I have killed innocent people for political ground and have blood on my hands! I am a cowardly dog who should sleep eternally with the swine in their filth! I hide like a coward behind a mask and use political demands to torture and kill harmless human beings! I stagnate our very land behind me with every new step I take. I am not a martyr but a meaningless serial killer trying to instill fear into the entire planet created by Mighty Allah! When I am destroyed and leave this world there is no reward awaiting me. I will spend an eternity in the darkest recesses of hell! For I am nothing but a scar left upon this world, I am a terrorist.

Posted by: Kuimars Mohimi at October 08, 2004 05:28 PM (lhqxH)

61 This war is messy because it was not one country declaring war on another.

It wasn't Iraq who flew those planes into the WTC on 9/11.

But Iraq has been linked with Al Qaida (personally, I think Iran would have been a better starting point, but I digress) and so off we went to Iraq.

Under normal war circumstances, the blood is morally on the hands of the government which represents the people as it declares war.

In this situation, it is not so clear cut.

Like Vietnam, this whole thing has gotten messy. There will be many, many more casualties before its over and many of them will be innocent civilians.

But, I am still behind the coalition forces. The worst thing the world could have done post-9/11 would have been to sit down, cry for a while, then try to carry on as if the problem was over.

In taking these actions, the USA (in particular) has shown that it will retaliate in the most extreme manner possible to any attacks to its people.

And if that means innocent civilians get caught in the cross-fire, that is regrettable but the blood is on the hands of Al Zarqawi and his ilk.

Read up on a bit of history and see what the US did to Tokyo after Pearl Harbour. It really does make what the US is doing in Iraq seem weak in comparison.

Posted by: Red Devil at October 08, 2004 05:34 PM (sRfMX)

62 I feel I need to post something here because I am so amazed by the racist & profoundly stupid remarks that I have read by american individuals,(I am english). It is outrageous that people want to condemn the religion of Islam because of the actions of a tiny minority of extremists. All religions have extremist groups. Those who feel that the terrorists in Iraq are representative of Islam need to educate themselves and open their minds. It is hatred that generates more hatred. Hating muslims will not solve anything, they're just normal people like you & I apart from the fact that they are being forced to live in a war zone through no fault of their own.

I am from the area that Ken Bigley is from and numerous muslim leaders in the area have publically expressed their disgust at the actions of the terrorists, one amazing muslim man even felt so stongly about it that he rang into a radio station and, in front of thousands of listeners, offered his own life to the terrorists in exchange for Mr Bigley's safe release(and he meant it)- How amazing is that! And how many of you would do the same? For the record I am not a muslim myself.

So please educate yourselves.

Posted by: lau at October 08, 2004 05:37 PM (ngDmb)

63 kuimars................your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: jawja at October 08, 2004 05:40 PM (RRYHW)

64 kuimars................your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: alla at October 08, 2004 05:43 PM (RRYHW)

65 Cas, If that is your real name cas@casworld.com you seem to enjoy putting a country in mourning down, although you say you are from this country. We have no women Iraqi prisoners here, so please explain why Ken was so brutally murdered. If you can not then shut the fuck up. Iraq has been murdering people for years, women, children and men but you claim this is ok for the rest of the world to sit back and watch. Please Cas for your own good get a life and let the bigger genetalia try to help these countries overcome thier problems in order for their to be world peace (If that is what you really want).

Posted by: Hatred at October 08, 2004 05:46 PM (8GxFh)

66 kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: alla at October 08, 2004 05:46 PM (RRYHW)

67 kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALLA at October 08, 2004 05:52 PM (RRYHW)

68 kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALLYBOB at October 08, 2004 05:52 PM (RRYHW)

69 kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALIBOOBY at October 08, 2004 05:53 PM (RRYHW)

70 kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALJAZEIR at October 08, 2004 05:54 PM (RRYHW)

71 kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: KUIMARSUXDICK at October 08, 2004 05:54 PM (RRYHW)

72 In response to the person who posted using the name "ken bigley", you ought to be ashamed of yourself writing such nasty, vicious rubbish. Is it necessary to call him a "greedy idiot" and "old fucker"? God help his poor, poor family should they ever read such malicious posts on the net. If it isn't bad enough their loved one had been tortured and killed in the most brutal way...
I'd like to see how you would react if one of your close family members died in the same way as Ken. I'm sure as hell you wouldn't be so quick to post such trash. The tragic thing is this man was degraded beyond imagination before he died and now idiots like you are degrading him in death.

Posted by: MissBrit at October 08, 2004 06:09 PM (RYkyM)

73 Apparently they killed Bigley by beheading yeasterday in a place called Latifa because of the Americans latest action in Fallujah, the lack of negotiation by the British Govt and also because they ran out of time and space to keep Ken while under so much pressure from "infidel forces".

A video has been shown on Abu Dhabi TV of Our Ken's beheading.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 8, 2004 09:11 AM
Yeah, whatever. If it wasn't those excuses it would have been something else.

Posted by: Digger at October 8, 2004 09:34 AM
Yip.

Kens body has been found apparently.

Now the word is it's our fault nutters are on the loose in Iraq like Zarqawi because we took out the Iraqi secret police.

Apparently we should have left atleast some lower level secret Iraqi police in place o deal with outsiders like Zarqawi.

It just gets more ridiculous by the minute.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 8, 2004 09:53 AM
Muslims beware.........your time on earth is short. There is a 5.56 for every one of your stinking heads. Your"Lions " have butchered an old man with his hands tied behind his back. Something to be proud of huh?.......Count your last days Muslim scum.

Posted by: Crusader at October 8, 2004 10:03 AM
The net is closing in on Zarqawi. Apparently he nearly got it yesterday from a US airstrike that killed 11 of his henchmen while a meeting was taking place in a safe house.

He will be caught.

Of that much I am confident enough.. 4-6 on it will be Zarqawi in a bodybag, 6-4 in an orange overall.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 8, 2004 10:12 AM
They need to catch that motherfucker, not nail with with a bomb. Then slice him down the middle and feed his own innards to him. Then send the video into that fucking Al-jazeera.

Posted by: Citizen at October 8, 2004 10:32 AM
Damn it all.... Too much feeling for words.... I grow more and more hateful everyday towards an entire religion. It seems that the book of revelations may be coming to pass.

Chris

Posted by: Chris at October 8, 2004 10:42 AM
Damn it all.... Too much feeling for words.... I grow more and more hateful everyday towards an entire religion. It seems that the book of revelations may be coming to pass.

Chris

Posted by: Chris at October 8, 2004 10:42 AM
Are Bush and Kerry due for another duel tonight?

Seems to me to be too much of a coincidence to be coincidental.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 8, 2004 10:50 AM
Is there any video footage out there?

Posted by: Olie at October 8, 2004 11:01 AM
Where do we find the video ???

Posted by: tttk at October 8, 2004 11:55 AM
where can i find the video of the beheading

Posted by: viper at October 8, 2004 12:56 PM
You sick people. Why do you want to see the video?!!

Posted by: mark at October 8, 2004 01:19 PM
I tried to write something constructive and then found myself just wanting to shoot the bastards myself.God Bless the American families who have had to cope with there loss of 2 people caught up in this shit. God Bless to Ken's family for there strength in this situation.Mine and other's prayers have not been answered.Is there a God ?

Posted by: Steve at October 8, 2004 01:24 PM
I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope these people who have done this to Ken rot in hell.


My heart bleeds for his family... You have all my thoughts and sadness with you all right now. God bless you Ken Bigley, rest in peace... at least you're not being tortured now.

Posted by: Hayley at October 8, 2004 01:28 PM
I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope I really really cannot believe those bastards could do something soo cruel to such a good man.

This world is seriously out of control.. and I cannot believe people can do this to good decent innocent people. It makes me disgusted to be a human if human's can be this evil. I hope these people who have done this to Ken rot in hell.


My heart bleeds for his family... You have all my thoughts and sadness with you all right now. God bless you Ken Bigley, rest in peace... at least you're not being tortured now.

Posted by: Hayley at October 8, 2004 01:28 PM
I have read some more of the comments that you have made about this article. Why the fuck are you starting to hate Muslims you racist bastards?! Just because some stupid nutcase terrorists decided to take hostages and kill them dosn't mean you have to hate their religion!! If the terrorists were of the same religion as you would you hate that religion aswell? Also, if you hadn't noticed, this damn war was started by the stupid americans and us stupid british, and no matter what the government say, they knew there were never any WMD in Iraq, the may have wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussain but allof us must realise that the main reason that we wanted to go to the Middle East is for the oil. As with any other conflict throughout history, no-one goes to war unless there is something in it for them. The war and the after-math (terrorism, hostage taking, beheading etc.) is all the fault of the stupid government going to war. Don't blame an entire religion for the actions of come twats who's soul aim is to bring down the Western world. The racist comments above remind me of something Hitler would have said. Racist bastards.

Posted by: Mark at October 8, 2004 01:31 PM
I didn't realize it was Muslim religion that sanctifies beheading innocent people in a most savage way. You don't slaughter animals the way these terrorists ( Muslims ) have been doing.

Posted by: Trojan at October 8, 2004 01:37 PM
I didn't realize it was Muslim religion that sanctifies beheading innocent people in a most savage way. You don't slaughter animals the way these terrorists ( Muslims ) have been doing.


Posted by: Trojan at October 8, 2004 01:39 PM
these people are'nt even from iraq .they say they freedom fighters they'er not my paryers and thoughts go out to the familes and friends and the people who let them down

Posted by: silly at October 8, 2004 01:46 PM
What's worse being hanged or beheaded?

Posted by: Big Daddy at October 8, 2004 01:47 PM
Hey MARK!!!
These muslims that are committing these acts are doing so under the guise that ALLAH wants them to cleanse the earth of all non believers. READ the kuran. Know what that book says, and what the muslim plan is. At the very least the extremist muslim plan. These terrorists are working towards getting into heaven via killing innocent people. THAT is wrong, and is the reason that people are beginning to see the Muslims in a different light. All the actions of these terrorists reflect directly on the entire religion as it is the religion that they are quoting, and using as their reason for killing so many innocent people. For Gods Sake they are killing their own women, children, and other innocent Iraqis, and fellow Muslims. The religion has to bare some of the responsibility for nurturing, and allowing people like these to even exist. There are many that know where they hide. Why don't these other peace loving Muslims turn them in?? Where do you draw the line as to who is to blame?? Don't take the easy route and blame the U.S., and Britain. It is the core of the religion that is wrong. Extremist muslims perhaps..... but Muslim all the same.

Posted by: Chris at October 8, 2004 01:56 PM
I would think being beheaded would be worse.
But it would also depend on the size of the knife.

Posted by: Chad at October 8, 2004 02:02 PM
By the way Mark..... I forgot to mention that Hitler wanted to cleanse the Earth of some people too. Sound familiar??

Chris

Posted by: Chris at October 8, 2004 02:04 PM
I THINK IRAQ SHOULD BE WHIPED OUT!!!! DROP FUCKING BOMB!!!! Poor Ken, why they kill him for?? NO BLOODY REASON. Iraq need to sort out, stupid IRAQ

Posted by: Chris at October 8, 2004 02:10 PM
Excuse me mark... who is picking on muslims?? no one is...we're expressing our feelings, ok? and it's a free country and we can do what we want..... and we are not racist bastards, ok? so stop being paranoid

Posted by: Hayley at October 8, 2004 02:10 PM
Fuck all the sand niggers. Let just one of those cowards fuck with me on my land, and I'll feed the towel headded sand nigger his own liver, before I cut out his eyes and feed them to pigs!

NUKE ALL THE SAND NIGGERS!!!!!

Posted by: Old Rebel at October 8, 2004 02:15 PM
We have to win the WAR ON TERROR. Vote for BUSH and he will win the war against these TERRORIST sons-a-bitches!

Posted by: Wild Bill at October 8, 2004 02:19 PM
NUKE THE IRAQ!!!!

Posted by: chris at October 8, 2004 02:20 PM
We need to catch him. Then when he's in custody keep him in a cell that's just too short for him to stand up or stretch out in.

Then we must force feed him pork every day.

You say it's not Muslims doing this, you may be right, but where are all the "moderate" clerics issuing Fatwa's against this barbaric beast? Where are the fatwas decrying and denouncing the acts of bombing innocents and their own countrymen? Where are the fatwas encouraging peaceful relations?

Yah, I haven't seen any either. So unless the Muslim world stands against this barbarism by their inaction they are standing for it.

Posted by: B52GUNR at October 8, 2004 02:21 PM
I am reading those comments that are so full of hatred,reading about all the things you would do to "those bastards",you know,it is that same kind of hatred that they feel that enables them to do such crimes,the reason for that hatred is the crimes that the American and British goverments have been committing for years in the middle east,why are all the children and women killed in Iraq and the men humiliated and tortured not an issue,but the killing of that one man is? If you accept your hatred to be just then theirs is too,my heart is torn apart for the pain this man and his family have gone through,and also for all the equally innocent people killed by the Americans and the British,both are equally disgusting and done by criminals.

Posted by: Maya at October 8, 2004 02:45 PM
Ok now I'm sick and very depressed as well. Nuke the motherfuckers! What the fuck else is there left to do? Hold hands and pray for peace????

I DID pray, look what happened! Every week at Mass, we send requests to pray for all our personnel serving in the Mid East, to keep them safe, blah, blah, blah. What the fucK GOOD DOES IT DO????

These motherfuckers don't give a shit about anything. They let poor Ken go on for how many weeks now? They planned on killing him from day 1, they just let the saga play out to show what they can do!!!!!

Revelations, indeed.

I'm disgusted.

Posted by: Laura at October 8, 2004 02:55 PM
I'm with Mark. Chris, I think you are a shockingly ignorant and thoroughly stupid racist individual. It is in the nature of extremists to select religious texts which suit their extreme ends. Have a look at Leviticus - eating shellfish is an abomination apparantly, but take the bible as a whole and you may find, as many followers do (not me, I'm an atheist but, unlike you Chris, I respect people's right to believe) that the book promotes peace and love. Islam promotes peace and love. What you are doing in your frankly disgusting posts Chris, is adopting an extremist position not very unlike that of the terrorists you criticise. Do you seriously think for one second that Ken Bigley would give ignorant idiots like you, 'B52GUNR' (how intelligent!)and 'Old Rebel' the time of day? Of course not, and neither should anyone else. Do us all a favour and keep your pathetic, ignorant hatred to yourselves. Muslims are NOT to blame for the death of Ken Bigley. Ignorance, extremism and terrorism is, and you would do well to bear in mind the fact that what the British and US governments have done in so wrongly waging war on Iraq is not so very different, just on a much larger scale. So Chris - please - try THINKING (and I mean really thinking, not just mimicking the views of your extremist friends just because you think it's cool) before you post anything else because your efforts so far don't really differentiate you from the terrorists you so claim to despise.

Posted by: Cas at October 8, 2004 03:12 PM
Ok, how can we see the video, when they said they weren't going to televise this one? They said they weren't going to release a video this time, I've just read somewhere.

Posted by: Laura at October 8, 2004 03:16 PM
Yep,nuke!!!
You are so stupid you should be put to sleep.
100% sure americans writing this.

I pray every day god will put his fury over your people one day and let the world be free again.

Posted by: hoyori at October 8, 2004 03:17 PM
Maya, What the fuck do you know, before we went in who was killing and slaughtering their own people, Sadam Hussain, so why do we then become the babarians for stopping this. These people are sick and will stop at nothing to kill innocent people and they all go by the Koran. Also why are the other muslims not condoning this, because he is British, listening to them speak and rant on about how they condone this but understand why it was done. What did they have before we came to help not freedom I can assure you of that. My heart goes out to the Bigley family and may the persecuters rot in hell....

Posted by: Hatred at October 8, 2004 03:20 PM
Right, hoyori, I am so stupid I should be put to sleep? Because I am defending my country and those poor hostages who met a grisley death? You are "so sure Americans are writing this"...where are YOU from? I am proud to say I'm an American, so come out from behind your computer screen and tell us who YOU are.

If we don't look out for ourselves, who the hell will? Innocent people die all the time in the name of war and religion, look at the innocent victims of 9/11?

It is not a crime to defend your country. These senseless beheadings have to stop.

Posted by: Ltb3105 at October 8, 2004 03:38 PM
Yes, it is difficult not to condemn an entire race/religion for this butchery. I do not intend to do so. But they are coming for us. They are coming for our weakest targets. They are coming for our women and children. They are Muslim. They are between the ages of 16 and 40. They are mostly male, but some could be female as well. The majority are from the middle east countries.

We found floor and architectural plans of several US schools in the possession of an Iraqi insurgent terrorist. Spetnaz comuniques indicate that they rushed the school in Belsan because the Islamic terrorists were beheading the children.

The international muslim community remains virtually silent save for a few mild condemnations. Words of praise to "allah" and the martyrs appear with regularity on muslim websites; for 911, for suicide bombings, for Iraqi insurgents, for the bombings at the Taba Hilton, and yes, for the "holy jihadists 'executing' the infidel crusader". They praise "allah" and pray for many more such actions that "cause the death of zionist pigs and their supporters". That's us folks. These are the facts.

They are coming. Will we be ready? Will you be ready?

Posted by: romeodelta24 at October 8, 2004 03:40 PM
it should have been finished when i was on op granby in 91 lets look for brit choagies who support these cunts and slice their heads off with a blunt rusty knife no surrender

Posted by: jonnnyfiretrap at October 8, 2004 03:44 PM
'Hatred' (ooohh, Joseph at hotmail, how inventive you are) you are really nothing but a silly ignorant little tosser. Do everyone a favour and SHUT UP. 'romeodelta24' you can shut up too, you moron. Laura, sort yourself out. "Nuke them" indeed. Get a grip girl.

Posted by: Cas at October 8, 2004 03:48 PM
Oh come on,you can't be so naive and say that the Americans went to this illegal war to protect Iraqi's from Saddam,America supported Saddam for ages and supplied him with chemichal weapons in the past,this is no secret,that war was a nasty war for the oil that America is running out of,what's the difference between Saddam and the American occupation in the end? They both murdered innocents claiming they are doing it for the good of the Iraqis!!! Both bastards and murderes as far as i am concerned and the only victims are the innocents,you don't bloody liberate a country by killing and torturing it's people and bombing their cities!!!! The hatred i am seeing in this discussion is disgusting really,it's this kind of extreme hatred that led to the murder of this man,if you feel you are entitled of cultivating hatred and acting it out then the families of the thousands of Iraqis and Palestinians whose families were murdered are too indeed,where does this leave us?? And those who are so eager to see the video of this horrible tragedy..why on earth are you so eager ?

Posted by: Maya at October 8, 2004 03:53 PM
Cas Get a life you fucking wanker, Civilised countries are not at war, they try to help bring peace. People with your frame of mind should be shot, no better throat cut. People like you condone this for what a better life, do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up. Killing people has never been written in one religous bible. What does it prove you are harder, I think it proves you are just a barbaric little tooser

Posted by: Hatred at October 8, 2004 03:57 PM
RETORT TO CAS

Please feel free to dispute my facts. Whereas I will concur that vituperative emotional outbursts seeking the demise of one's perceived enemies may indeed be cathartically therapeutic; they serve a counterproductive purpose. I believe that I have stated the facts of the matter. It is apparent that we are flushing out the Islamic terror element in Iraq. It will continue to be a difficult and lengthy process; especially when we consider the potential of the enemy within our borders.

Please consider this. Never before in the history of the world has a country proportionally as powerful as the USA existed and not used its position to conquer, occupy and subjugate. The USA is the only country in the world (save England; of course I consider them to be a suburb!) to risk and expend the lives of its precious young men and women for the freedom of others. When you are oppressed, we help. When you are hungry, we send food. When you are sick, we send medicine and only ask in return that you live in accord with the other countries of the world.

I thank the God of Abraham, Issac and Joseph and Him incarnate, Jesus the Christ, for the courage of our president, George W. Bush and each and every dignified and professional US soldier, sailor and marine protecting us both here and in country. A big "HOO-YAH" to all of them. WE ARE READY.

Posted by: romeodelta24 at October 8, 2004 04:11 PM
I know the men who killed me are animals and they truly need to be dealt with in the harshest way but I was a greedy man and was in Iraq to make cash and my government advised me to stay the fuck out but I thought I knew better. I knew the risks and took a chance and lost so I really cant blame Blair as I was damn well warned. I was a greedy fucker and and ignored my embassies warnings.

Posted by: ken bigley at October 8, 2004 04:14 PM
Remember one thing, "war has no rules".

Posted by: pipesmkr at October 8, 2004 04:30 PM
Oh that was really great "ken bigley"! So, he deserved it? I am not even going there, your post was so infantile.

Cas, YOU get a grip! What the fuck do you think we've been doing all these years?? We've done nothing but HELP people, and what do we get for it? We should stay the hell out of these places, the hell with getting their freedom..what about our freedom? Are WE really free, with all the security lines at the airports....I took my youngest to a disney show and they even searched the kids' diaper bags!!!! If you call that freedom, you're all sadly mistaken.

These are not humans...they are not even animals..animals act on instinct and have no conscience. These bastards know what they are doing, and if they think their God preaches to kill, then they are not worthy of the "real" God and must be dealt with.

What do you advise doing? Just sitting around on our asses and let the killing continue? And please, no more remarks about "if only Bush didn't invade them, this wouldn't have happened"....all bullshit! Iraq is involved with Al Qaeda, Saddam is involved too, don't let them fool you. Zarqawi trained in Afghanistan and traveled all around the place and ended up in Iraq. So if you don't think they were involved with 9/11, think again.


Think of the 3,000 or so vicitms, some are buried under the sidewalks of NYC, ashes, ashes, everywhere!

Never forget.

Posted by: Laura at October 8, 2004 04:36 PM
this is one screwed up religion which states in some words that it is ok to kill a innocent man who was just doing his job.
he was tied up and killed, what a bunch of fucking faggits to grab some one run away and then kill then while there tied up!!!!!
all extreme muslims should be shot instantly!! and if any of you read this i hope you have the balls to come over to england and fight like men!!!! then we will cut you up with a knife and show your disinbowlment on al jazeera, you fucking faggits!!! i hope your mother sucks cocks in hell when i kill her!!!

Posted by: Proud2bBritish at October 8, 2004 04:42 PM
To the person who subscribed as 'ken bigley,' all I can say is that as al-Zarqawi and his followers disgraced that poor man in life, you sink to a lower level and disgrace him in death. I'm not sure why you would want to purposefully do this, but if you want to exist at their level and cloak yourself in anominity as you have, then you are hardly different from the murderers you implicitly support,the cowardly killers of innocent old men that they are. Be proud of the meaningless place in history you will eternally hold.

Posted by: just one person at October 8, 2004 04:44 PM
PIPESMKR:

I guess you know nothing of war. Generally we like to keep attrition to enemy combatants, resources and the like. Even in the grey areas we would simply use one round to the back of the head. If indeed killing can be called merciful, that certainly would qualify.

Sawing the head off of a bound, innocent, aged civilian contractor is hardly "war". It is, at best, barbaric butchery. In reality, it is sadistic. It is indeed sad that you cannot tell the difference.

Posted by: romeodelta24 at October 8, 2004 04:45 PM
Extreme muslims should all be taken away out of society and killed without any discussion. The whole Islam faith is corrupt and evil i believe, from their sexist backward converting beliefs to there terriorist ways of "getting to paradise" as they would say or doing it for Allah, your all a joke!

Posted by: Truth hurts don't it! at October 8, 2004 04:52 PM
Hatred, is your real name Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? It's just that he likes to cut people's throats too - you seem to have quite a lot in common. Hopefully the intelligent people posting here would agree that hatred - in all forms, not just psuedonyms (look it up Hatred, should your twin Ignorance (romeodelta perhaps?!) be causing you to scratch your head at an unfamiliar word)is fundamentally wrong and fundamentally stupid. Just like you. Just wondered - how old are you? 13? And tell me, what exactly led you to believe that I am a "barbaric little tosser"? I believe in peace, not war. I am five foot nine. And I do not possess the genitalia to enable me to indulge in the gender specific variety masturbation you seem to be alleging. romeodelta24, I do think that you are blinkered in the peculiarly American patriotic way that gives the US such a bad name. But I appreciate your attempts at linguistic prowess. 'Vituperative' is a fabulous word. It's such a shame that you had to spoil it with your "Hoo Yah" though. Never mind, better luck next time. Oh - and I should add that you might like to check your understanding of history - much as I love my fellow English people, it has never been *just* England and America fighting for freedom. For example, the French were actually in the front line during the first Iraq war, and countless nations have stood up to facism and despotism in the past. Generally the US has arrived at the party last to claim all the glory with minimum risk (see WW2 for details) but I suppose this war is a little different because Haliburton had its oil interests to protect and you wanted to get in there first... oh, and please advise - what "freedom" were you guys fighting for in Vietnam??

Posted by: Cas at October 8, 2004 04:56 PM
It's not that people who want to see the beheading are sick, I believe it's simple curiousity, this does not make us sick in any way. These things with no remorse, I call them (the terrorist) things because I cannot find an appropriate definition for them. I wouldn't dare insult the animal kingdom by referring to them as animals, are so mad, I believe a lot of people are in disbelieve that humans are capable of these attrosities. Maybe viewing the video helps them beleive and hopefully pray and offer the family of the victims the most sincere sympathy!

Posted by: Izzy at October 8, 2004 04:58 PM
hey! i feel sorry for the old fucker and his family but he was aware of the risks.Becouse the greedy idiot wanted to risk it he is now dead and im sure that the has been a lot of marines who have risked there lives in order to find him just becouse he though he knew best? forget all that shit about "oh ken wanted to help iraq" bullshit, he wanted to to line his own pocket and then his family bitch about blair and expect troops to risk there lives for him. i truly feel sorry for ken but............he knew the score and greed took him to iraq

Posted by: ken bingley at October 8, 2004 05:00 PM
Laura - do you *really* believe that it is appropriate to honour the memory of the victims of 9/11 by starting a nuclear conflict which would take out the rest of the living planet? Honestly? Or have I misunderstood what you meant by your comment "nuke them"?? I find your views on freedom and your anger at the restrictions on it interesting. Most of this planet don't have enough to eat, let alone be able to afford diapers for their children or to go to disneyland. I don't think you appreciate just how privileged you actually are. Did you perhaps mean "nuke them" as in bomb their homes, or drop it directly onto the individuals involved, what? Do you think you can bomb anywhere without killing and maiming innocent people? Do you believe that the lives of Iraqi children are somehow less worthy than those of american children? Of course I don't advise sitting and doing nothing. I believe in trying to find a peaceful political solution to conflict through dialogue. I don't think that violence is a solution, and that has been clearly demonstrated by what has happened in Iraq. If you truly, honestly believe that the best way forward is to "nuke" people then I feel incredible sorry for you and fervently hope that you are never ever elected to any position of power. The US doing nothing but help people? PLEASE!!! You're taking a very insular view. Try less Disney, more trips to the library - it might help.

Posted by: Cas at October 8, 2004 05:09 PM
Oh great, now we're fighting amongst ourselves and there's a definite UK V USA argument going on here.

I'm from the UK and I love my country but I sure as hell am glad that we're similar in our culture to the USA because I really wouldn't want to be next in the USA's gun-sights.

This is a cultural war, don't be so surprised at these people's methods. The methods are barbaric because these people are barbaric. It's the kind of stuff us English used to do up until maybe a few hundred years ago.

These people are still in their own "Dark Ages".

It will either take a few hundred years for them to catch up (by which time we'll all have fucked off to Mars or something anyway) or a well aimed bullet to their heads.

The Muslim religion could really use some more "guidance" from Allah at this stage, maybe he would like to send some word down about what he REALLY meant when he said "kill all infidels" and stuff like that.

These nutters are really giving the guy a bad name.

As for Ken Bigley, I really do think his death could cause a lot of trouble here in the UK. I hope I am wrong but there could be a few murders going on in the next few days. Especially in his native Liverpool.

Posted by: Red Devil at October 8, 2004 05:14 PM
I have been feeling really sick since i read about the murder today,but please would any of you explain to me why none of you gives a damn when thousands of civilians were/are murdered in Iraq by the armies/leaders that you praise and find it a horrible crime (which it is) that this poor man was murdered,i mean why the double standards?? Why do some life have no value while others do? Why is it less of a terrorist attack leading an illegal war where innocents are murdered than it is when the murdered ones are American or British? How would you feel if your country is being bombed and children murdered by an army that came from half the way across the world claiming "liberation"??

Posted by: Maya at October 8, 2004 05:17 PM
Do you think that americans and british soldiers don't kill people in irak?.... they use a pill or with a poison apple?.... the only difference is that americans and british don't use a camcorder.

Posted by: ranamaldita at October 8, 2004 05:20 PM
I am a terrorist and I am a disgrace to all of Islam! Mighty Allah All Merciful Allah I beg you! I have taken my religion and created my own idiology to commit unspeakable crimes against humanity! The daily bloodshed of my people is my doing and I am responsible for all of it. I am a living blasphemy to my people and to my faith and I deserve to die a thousand deaths! I have killed innocent people for political ground and have blood on my hands! I am a cowardly dog who should sleep eternally with the swine in their filth! I hide like a coward behind a mask and use political demands to torture and kill harmless human beings! I stagnate our very land behind me with every new step I take. I am not a martyr but a meaningless serial killer trying to instill fear into the entire planet created by Mighty Allah! When I am destroyed and leave this world there is no reward awaiting me. I will spend an eternity in the darkest recesses of hell! For I am nothing but a scar left upon this world, I am a terrorist.

Posted by: Kuimars Mohimi at October 8, 2004 05:28 PM
This war is messy because it was not one country declaring war on another.

It wasn't Iraq who flew those planes into the WTC on 9/11.

But Iraq has been linked with Al Qaida (personally, I think Iran would have been a better starting point, but I digress) and so off we went to Iraq.

Under normal war circumstances, the blood is morally on the hands of the government which represents the people as it declares war.

In this situation, it is not so clear cut.

Like Vietnam, this whole thing has gotten messy. There will be many, many more casualties before its over and many of them will be innocent civilians.

But, I am still behind the coalition forces. The worst thing the world could have done post-9/11 would have been to sit down, cry for a while, then try to carry on as if the problem was over.

In taking these actions, the USA (in particular) has shown that it will retaliate in the most extreme manner possible to any attacks to its people.

And if that means innocent civilians get caught in the cross-fire, that is regrettable but the blood is on the hands of Al Zarqawi and his ilk.

Read up on a bit of history and see what the US did to Tokyo after Pearl Harbour. It really does make what the US is doing in Iraq seem weak in comparison.

Posted by: Red Devil at October 8, 2004 05:34 PM
I feel I need to post something here because I am so amazed by the racist & profoundly stupid remarks that I have read by american individuals,(I am english). It is outrageous that people want to condemn the religion of Islam because of the actions of a tiny minority of extremists. All religions have extremist groups. Those who feel that the terrorists in Iraq are representative of Islam need to educate themselves and open their minds. It is hatred that generates more hatred. Hating muslims will not solve anything, they're just normal people like you & I apart from the fact that they are being forced to live in a war zone through no fault of their own.

I am from the area that Ken Bigley is from and numerous muslim leaders in the area have publically expressed their disgust at the actions of the terrorists, one amazing muslim man even felt so stongly about it that he rang into a radio station and, in front of thousands of listeners, offered his own life to the terrorists in exchange for Mr Bigley's safe release(and he meant it)- How amazing is that! And how many of you would do the same? For the record I am not a muslim myself.

So please educate yourselves.


Posted by: lau at October 8, 2004 05:37 PM
kuimars................your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: jawja at October 8, 2004 05:40 PM
kuimars................your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: alla at October 8, 2004 05:43 PM
Cas, If that is your real name cas@casworld.com you seem to enjoy putting a country in mourning down, although you say you are from this country. We have no women Iraqi prisoners here, so please explain why Ken was so brutally murdered. If you can not then shut the fuck up. Iraq has been murdering people for years, women, children and men but you claim this is ok for the rest of the world to sit back and watch. Please Cas for your own good get a life and let the bigger genetalia try to help these countries overcome thier problems in order for their to be world peace (If that is what you really want).

Posted by: Hatred at October 8, 2004 05:46 PM
kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: alla at October 8, 2004 05:46 PM
kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALLA at October 8, 2004 05:52 PM
kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALLYBOB at October 8, 2004 05:52 PM
kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALIBOOBY at October 8, 2004 05:53 PM
kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: ALJAZEIR at October 8, 2004 05:54 PM
kuimars.Mohimi...............your a FUCK HEAD! and I know where you live...I will hunt you down and rip your dick off and shove that rigamortis up your ass....I think you would like that , then I'll kill you....fuck head..

Posted by: KUIMARSUXDICK at October 8, 2004 05:54 PM
you

Posted by: stink at October 08, 2004 06:10 PM (RRYHW)

74 Great, now we've got trolls infiltrating the blogs! I thought that was only reserved for the internet newsgroups. Guess not.

Hey Cas and all of you who think that the "nuke em mentality" is wrong. Don't you know that innocent civilians have always been killed in the name of war? We have to defend our country. Not saying it's right or wrong. What about soldiers who are Catholic and go to fight? "thou shalt not kill"l...gee, we wouldn't have anyone fighting if they claimed their religion prohibited them from fighting. Even the Bible states that...."an eye for an eye". Not saying it's right, but justified.

I don't think we went to Iraq and just started bombing and shooting at innocent civilians! This is war, and if Bush felt that we needed to go there, then so be it. Iraq may have not been directly involved with 9/11, but I believe they are all part of Al Qaeda's network.

Look at what we did to Japan! That other poster's right....going to Iraq is indeed weak in comparison. Too bad it hasn't scared off other countries from starting anything with us.

You can't blame Bush...this started WAY before him...remember '93 the towers were bombed and the USS Cole? I'm so tired of people saying that we just went over to Iraq and trampled all over those people.

So it's okay for them to behead us, slam planes into the towers, while we sit back and say, "but it would not be right to invade their country and risk the lives of innocent women and children".

Try telling that to the victims' families of 9/11...the kids without fathers, the parents without children, the wives without husbands...

Posted by: Laura at October 08, 2004 07:03 PM (ptOpl)

75 I am from Ken's home town in the North West of England and my thoughts today not only go out to Ken his wife and family but to the family of those of the 10 year old Plastinian girl that was shot by a jewish soldier and to a small boy who was also shot. My thoughts go out to the real people of Iraq who initially welcomed a force they hoped had come to release them and give them security. My thoughts also go out to those who have been sent to do the dirty jobs the politicians would never be found doing, but most of all my thoughts go out to you all that you do not allow the hate that fills these killers to fill you to. To those who decry Iraq and it's people they should remember that most of the disturbances are not due to Iraqis' but to Jordanians; Egyptions, Iranians', Syrians', and Saudi Arabians' who fund much of the mayhem around the globe. I hope that having read this you bear a thought to for the English soldier killed earlier this week in Iraq and his family who also come from my neck of the woods. I fear that the hate of the actions carried out in Iraq do not inspire English people in my area to carry out similar act of attrition on Moslems here. To those who thing I'm soft I would say Zaqkawi was created, by the Jordainan military forces who interigated him into a state of insanity. Guess who trained his interogaters? YES UK and the US. Now we have created this monster of a sub human being we now have to send our state sanctioned killers' to put us out of his missery. Let us all hope the US don't fuck up that job, again!

Posted by: chimera at October 08, 2004 07:13 PM (rTlq6)

76 Hmmm...all spoken like true "Americans." Typical stupid white boy rhetoric. You all talk boldly about defending a land that you stole, visiting untold atrocities upon Native American men, women and children. Yes, the very same country that you used another people (that you stole from still another continent) to build--raping, murdering, maiming and lynching them as you went. America isn't yours, and never has been. You were going to roll into Iraq and "be greeted as conquering heroes, remember?" How does it feel to getting back a small, minute dose of what you've visited upon others for centuries? How does it feel to see blood roll down the streets of Baghdad that is more than just Iraqi blood? We (George Bush and the U.S. military) have invaded a sovereign nation and murdered more than 15,000 Iraqi civilians who had nothing at all to do with his oil grab. I'll bet some of them were "good" men, women, children and babies as well as this poor British man was. But, in our arrogant tunnelvision, we don't even count their deaths. The global hatred of the U.S. will end when we begin to place equal value on the lives of other people around the world, instead of spewing so much hate-filled venom over American lives solely.

Posted by: Pharaoh at October 08, 2004 07:18 PM (Qudo2)

77 All I can say is this whole UK v. US psuedo-debate is stupid.

Posted by: just one person at October 08, 2004 07:34 PM (97rJz)

78 Pharaoh-
Your not wrong about the wholesale discounting that goes on regarding the Iraqi innocent casualties. But, I see a distinct difference in the methods. al-Zarqawi isn't indiscriminately dropping bombs, he selectively pulls particular victims from society and brutally kills them. To me, it's like comparing a drunk driver who kills a family to Jeffery Dahmer. Both wrong on a moral level, but the latter is somehow more reprehensible.

Posted by: just one person at October 08, 2004 07:45 PM (97rJz)

79 HELLO ALL

WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET THIS ONE JUST GO!!!!
WE WILL GET THEM BACK FOR THIS
THEY KILL ONE OF US
WE KILL 100 OF THE IN THE UK

Posted by: BNP UK20005 at October 08, 2004 08:16 PM (Fb/9M)

80 BN UK 200005
You should know that all communications are monitored and you should take care what you say and where and how you say it.

How does hurting a Moslem in the UK help Ken his family or anyone else, it would be an empty action. If you really want to change things get political, learn that perhaps your meant to feel that way to stop you noticing those who are really at fault. The first law of control ' divide and rule'. Try looking at the larger picture, get political don't get violent, don't hurt more innocent people. Here's a radical idea why don't you be part of the solution rather than part of the illusion of democracy.

REMEMBER BIG BROTHER REALLY IS LISTENING AND WATCHING AND MONITORING US ALL!

Posted by: chimera at October 08, 2004 09:11 PM (P8jnk)

81 We need to catch the bastards that did this, pose them in front of a camera (same way as they do to their captives) and slowly slice lumps out of the cunts until there's nothing left. They'll think twice if they see vidz of terrorist kidnappers being hacked to pieces by a sadistic nut-job. Kill 'em all!

Posted by: uberd0g at October 08, 2004 10:03 PM (sM5yG)

82 Don't worry about the terrorists trying to split the UK and the USA. Argues may be had but you'll not split a mother from her own.

Anyway. Zarqawi thinks he is making a dent? Well he'll be caught soon. The net is closing.

I gather the numbers of soldiers lost in this Iraq War are about 1300?

The Brits have lost about a 110 in this regard. RIP all that lay from all allied nations.

On the first day of the battle of the somme we Brits lost 58'000 of our boys.

Rest In Peace Our Ken. We shall never be moved.

Rule Britannia.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 09, 2004 12:20 AM (PI5+b)

83 You folks should be aware that in BNP20005 the BNP more than likely stands for British National Party, which probably makes this particular contributor just as much as a hate-filled extremist as those responsible for these savage acts of barbarism. In fact in some respects he is even worse, if you believe the "devil you know" theory because I think I am safe in assuming that this cowardly scum bag spreads his racist filth hidden behind the anonymity available to him online!

Peace & Love
the dogsbollix

Posted by: thedogsbollix at October 09, 2004 01:05 AM (38KYN)

84 To those who think that cutting up a muslim on feeding the video to Al-Jezeera would solve anything: those here who have pointed out that these extemists are doing this for their own reasons are right. They aren't affected by a beheading of their own people like the civilized world is: they kill their own on a regular basis.

Although I think the posts on this particular blog represent the worst that the western world has to offer, some of you make good points, only to allow hatred (extremism) to take over. Express your feelings: that's great. That's what the blog is for, I guess. But recognise that each of you is either on one side of a very defined fence (namely: is collateral damage acceptible?) and none of you is going to change another's mind. Those who cry "nuke em" are no more extremist than those who think just because there have been no WMD found, Bush and Blair have innocent blood on their hands.

I almost went to Iraq as a contractor over a year ago. Personally, my interest was in "rebuilding the country", but what it really came down to was the money: vast sums of it offered to go there and do the job noone else wanted to. Turns out that I put my family first, and turned it down, suffering financially because of it. Am I a "saint" for not going and supporting the zioistic attitude that almost drove me there? No. Am I a bastard for even considering it? Perhaps. But I know, because I came THIS close to going, that if I had, I couldn't hold responsible my country, whether it be Britian, US, Poland or whatever, to change it's course in world history, over my head. I'm sorry to those who think Ken's beheading is Tony Blair's fault, and to those who think that every soldier who dies in this conflict is an innocent victim of the war, but unless you were FORCED, coerced, imprisioned to serve in the war zone, you've made somewhat of a choice. Even if you're a missionary trying to feed the innocent children of IRAQ, or building bridges to Bagdad, I beg of you to see that you have made a choice to take the risk, that might result in your epitath being read on the nightly news. Any other view I've heard to date is very narrow minded.

To those swearing at each other in this blog: do you realise that once you lose your control, no-one else here can ever take you seriously again? None of the issues that we're talking about are clear cut: black and white. It isn't that simple. Some good points about this not being a war by one country against another country: comparisons to previous wars just don't translate to what's going on today. We must learn from the past, that's correct, but we must adapt too, in order to survive. so much blame here on who did what wrong....does anyone have an answer (besides "Nuke em" or "leave them alone") as to how we get out of this bloody mess?

To those questioning why some of us want to see video of the beheadings: although no one should be forced to see them, those of us who have the stomach for it need to see them, because it strengthens our resolve about just what type of being we're dealing with. Otherwise, it's just another death, amoungst hundreds or thousands each day. The terrorists do us a favor by showing us their acts of hatred, in the long run. Unfortunately, they hide behind the Koran, but that's what all religious people do (though the book they hide behind is called something different). They are no differnet than the Christians who slaughtered entire civilizations centuries ago (though I think their organization is alot smaller today. could it be the same dozen or so extremists causing all these problems?)

Some references earlier to Vietnam were made. Two big differences between this and Vietnam: the military is all-voluntary now, so crying that Bush is killing innocent American military, although popular in the late Vietnam era (and what we all remember and are drawn to reproduce) don't hold the same credibility in today's war. Second, there is a perceived threat, whether real or not, no one knows for sure, directly against American soil from Iraq. Argue all you want about "no WMD, therefore the war is illegal", fact, no I take that back, not fact, but strong feelings remain, that Iraq did pose a severe threat to the Western World's interests. If you think Oil is the only reason Bush wanted to invade Iraq, you're oversimplifying the whole mess. It's political as much as it's fiscal, with ties to the treaty that created Israel, and the decades of terroristic murderings that have resulted from it. If you think the US was "running out of oil", think again! The US's oil wells remain capped because it's [still] too expensive for the US to process it's own oil. Did you know that the oil drilled in the US property of Alaska gets shipped half way around the world, in exchange for their oil, because it's cheaper to buy foreign oil than to process it's own, thanks to laws and regualations that I'll never understand. Most of the US's oil importation comes from Canada, who is not one of the "axis of evil" countries, last time I checked.

And again, if you think Iraq was innocent, or that the UN Inspections should have proceeded: Saddam kicked out the UN Inspectors. And when they WERE there, they weren't allowed to go everywhere. Saddam presented the appearance that he was hiding something. It turns out, to date, nothing significant has been found (though a few biological missles have been found, one at a time). But it was his hiding, and thumbing his nose at the UN, that precipitated this war, not US and Britian oil interests. Saddam's action brought on the war, and the extremists actions are now insuring that it won't end.

To site an example of how complex these issues become, stories have surface in the past few days about links between Saddam and the French (who hold veto power in the UN), the French, who were promised oil royalties by Saddam, in exchange for France to promise [I think the word was "guarantee" actually] to boycott any attempt by the US to invade Iraq within the UN, which it's now history, that they did. You wanna talk "Oil Interests"? How do you say that in French?

And no, I don't see that the US will EVER be out of this mess. Please tell me I'm wrong on that, and how to go about it.

In the mean time, the US is hoping that a world coalition will take care of the impending doom being placed upon the world by Iran, enriching Uranium for nuclear weapons as we speak. But the world won't, in my opinion, step up to the plate, after all of this that's happened with Iraq, and seeing what political suicide such an action would be.

You think the Iraq mess, a few thousand troops, and a couple of beheadings represents the end of the world is here? You ain't seen nothing yet. Sad yes, but probably true. Hide behind your bible if that gives you strength.

And 50 or 100 years from now, if the world is still in one piece, our descendents will be talking about that evil empire that the US and Britian installed in Iraq in the early 21st century in hopes to have an ally to wage war against Iran, again. Same stuff, different place.

Posted by: DB at October 09, 2004 01:16 AM (6ZODv)

85 Everyone has their opinions on an issue. I would be glad to state mine.

I am a very fond person of every nationality and heritage and what not, quite the social person, but muslim to me from a very young age was one that i never accepted, maybe because their ways of hiding themselves in curtains or this Allah guy they talk about. God has no name, other than God.

Do I agree with the beheadings ? Yes and No. First off, no man not welcome in a country should be there to take economical value back with him from what was destroyed from their own people. I dont bomb my neighbours house then help him rebuild it and get paid for it. But anyways, all in all, God exists, a star in the sky that sees everything. There will be lots that will be punished by his fury. The days all my friends is near. Not tomorrow, not next year, but very very near.

Posted by: Nikos at October 09, 2004 01:47 AM (qpCnj)

86 just wanted to mention that florida has already felt a tad of wrath from god for being a key reason for bush's placement in the house. (hurricanes)...

Posted by: nikos at October 09, 2004 01:52 AM (qpCnj)

87 Heres a government black project idea; Next Mecca meeting have an "accidental" nuclear weapon from Iran explode which was meant for Iraq. Oops.

Posted by: Gorgo at October 09, 2004 02:26 AM (8vCp2)

88 To the disrespectful a*shole posing as Ken Bigley--Too bad you wouldn't get beheaded, that would mean one less inbred f*cker like you.

To Lau-the nauseatingly self-righteous Brit who accuses us(Americans) of anti-Muslim racism. You need to get over your 'let's all hold hands with the Muslims in perfect harmony' naive, idealistic bullsh*t and wake up to reality. The Muslim and Western world have totally opposing values and this includes so-called "liberal" Muslims. I went to Britain recently and practically thought I was in Saudi Arabia. The UK and Europe is going to have serious problems if the Muslims become the majority and lofty people like Lau are too naive to see it. Oh well, if the Brits are under Sharia Law, guess they'll have something to b*tch about besides America.

All of you who think Iraq is just about oil are naive, simplistic and stupid. Do you honestly believe Saddam became a good boy who just put away all his weapons or plans to make weapons? I mean look at his past?? Are you naive enough to think he's changed???

Posted by: jdt at October 09, 2004 02:40 AM (DJLsM)

89 I AM ENGLISH AND I FOR ONE WISH THAT THE UK AND US WOULD BACK AWAY FROM ALL THIS TROUBLE THE KILLING OF ALL HOSTAGES IS WRONG ESPECIALLY IN THE MANNER THESE GUYS DO IT IN BUT IN SOME WAY IT IS OUR OWN FAULT ONLY THIS WEEK IT WAS ANNOUNCED SADDAM HAD NO WMD SO WHAT DID WE GO TO WAR FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE? A PACK OF LIES THATS WHAT. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE BIG BOYS IN THE PLAYGROUND ALWAYS WANT TO PLAY WAR. WHY? BECAUSE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO RISK THEIR LIVES DOING IT , IT IS LEFT TO ALL THE BRAVE SOLDIERS WE SEND OUT THERE TO DO OUR COUNTRIES DIRTY WOKK.GET THEM OUT NOW AND LET IRAQ SORT ITSELF OUT.

Posted by: GAZZA1 at October 09, 2004 02:48 AM (HRlMM)

90 It is the religion of these cowardly terrorists that is causing the deaths of innocent human beings. Round them all up and show these executioners no mercy for they are the hell on this earth. These terrorists no nothing of goodness and well being. Death to you all.

Posted by: LionHart at October 09, 2004 03:11 AM (FaROJ)

91 Hey,someone is messing with this thread,the posts i have sent are now under another name,and some posts written by others are signed by me,what's that about?

Posted by: Maya at October 09, 2004 03:31 AM (hmFvz)

92 muslim scum. hope they rot in hell.

Posted by: Mattyboy at October 09, 2004 05:01 AM (+egeK)

93 My gosh, the level of stupidity in here is astounding... all you hating red necks need to visit that place you drive by in the morning but have never been to; you know the one building that has all the books... learn to read and then you might learn something of other cultures and other religions....

What we need to do is get our boys back, their lives are not expendable, they need to be sent back home NOW!... put bush and blair on trail for the lives they have taken in iraq and the troops that have been killed thanks to their greed.

GET OUR BOYS BACK NOW!

And yes i'm from the UK

Posted by: PhuqTheRedNecks at October 09, 2004 05:07 AM (C8Stl)

94 which muslims,Mattboy? Those tens of thousands killed in their homeland by the Americans?? Take a bloody look at yourself,your country was founded by criminals,founded by genocide of the natives there,the blacks in your country have been treted like animals till not long ago,your hole history is one of blood and barbarism,you murdered the Indians,the blacks,the Vietnamese,the Palestinians and now the Iraqis,and now you cry that one man was killed,tragic end of one innocent man because of idiots full of hatred like oyu are,take a bloody break before you make such extremist statements about other cultures,and get civilized!

Posted by: Maria at October 09, 2004 05:13 AM (+lFt6)

95 ..and yet,no civilised intelligent person say "it's Christianity,nuke them"!!

Posted by: Maria at October 09, 2004 05:17 AM (+lFt6)

96 No wonder there is so much bloodshed in the world when idiots like you inhabit our precious planet,get educated for God's sake!! (Allah's too),extremists are extremists,and criminals are criminals,religions have nothing to do with that,what was Hitler's religion by the way? You should "nuke" those too,oops,he was Christian!

Posted by: Maria at October 09, 2004 05:23 AM (+lFt6)

97 Big brother is watching us all yet they have no idea how many illegal immigrants or even asylum seekers that they have here.
I'm not convinced our country is that superb somehow.
Just like who would have thought the US of A would have had the twin towers saga..(Oh but I forgot they only save the world all the time in the movies)

I do believe that they will want to 'chip' us all eventually so that they can big brother us though.

Posted by: Me at October 09, 2004 05:44 AM (9O1gC)

98 Why would anyone want to sit and watch the video of Ken being beheaded?
Sick individuals might!
How will it help you? How will it help him? and how will it help the war?
Will it make you hate them more? Will it make you hate Blair and Bush more? Would you be able to sit and watch it live?
Blair should have done the right thing and offered to switch places!

Posted by: Me at October 09, 2004 05:55 AM (9O1gC)

99 It was all about the OIL and now they are slipping in the Grease!

Posted by: Me at October 09, 2004 05:57 AM (9O1gC)

100 Errr you are calling people fools and saying that he was a christian.. Hitler was a roman catholic ..duh! and rumour has it his great grandmother was a jew

Posted by: Me at October 09, 2004 06:00 AM (9O1gC)

101 Roman catholics are not christians? LOL,but right,Bush and Blair led young men to a nasty war for oil,a war where thousands of civilians were murdered only because they were born in a country with the biggest oil reserves on the world,and Mr. Bigley is another victim of this nasty war,violence leads to violence,i believe Bush should be taken to war crime court just as Zawraqi,and everyone who is responsible for the murder of civilians whether American,British or Iraqi,Bush has more blood on his hands than these horrible terrorists,they all should rott in hell,muslims,christians,or whatever,it's what you do not what your religion/race/colour is,and they all did crimes against humanity and called it a nobel fight! Yuk!

Posted by: Maria at October 09, 2004 06:12 AM (+lFt6)

102 So the pope is not christian either? He is a roman catholic..like Hitler..lol..i suggest people should pass an IQ test before posting here!

Posted by: Maria at October 09, 2004 06:19 AM (+lFt6)

103 We could also say the same thing about your country's past or any country's past Maria. Anyway, your comments about America are stupid so why don't you take care of the problems and all of the racism against blacks and others in your OWN country Maria.

Also, I'm sick of the Muslim world and their supporters always playing the victim . These Islamic extremists want to take over the world with their evil global jihad and have been attacking the USA for years as well as other countries. Even though most Muslims are not terrorists, the Muslim world in general either has some sympathy for terrorist causes or is indifferent to them.

So don't give me the crap about 'Americans bombing the Middle East.' We have been very restrained. Islamic extremists have been attacking us and other nations around the world and we did nothing for 30 years. However, on Sept.11th, they went too far. If you attack us and kill 3000 people as was done on Sept.11th, that is a declaration of war against us and
we have EVERY right to go after the terrorists and the regimes that harbor them and some civilians are going to get killed by bombs in the crossfire. So if you don't like it Muslim World, leave America and the rest of the Western world alone , and we'll leave you alone, it's as simple as that.

Posted by: jack at October 09, 2004 06:25 AM (vwjem)

104 Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11,neither did it have WMD,all those were excuses to rob Iraq,and the Iraqi civilians certainly had nothing to do with all this crap,yet they ewere murdered brutally,thousands of them,you don't have any bloody "right" to murder civilians and then weap for your losses,and preach crap about barbarism,when you invade a forign country and kill it's civilians and bomb it's cities and call it liberation and a right,if this is your right,then it's their right too to murder your people back whenever they can,this is sick and sickening!! YOu can not kill and torture innocent people in their homeland and say they were caught in "crossfire",get the hell out of their lands and get your freaking oil somewhere else.
Also,if Americans descending from outside America should leave the USA,then everyone would have to leave except the native Indians!

Posted by: Maria at October 09, 2004 06:37 AM (+lFt6)

105 Cas, nice to see someone posting some sensible comments amongst all the trash on here.

I've only read the earlier posts on this thread, as I have no intention of being dragged into yet another pointless debate regarding the rights or wrongs of the US-led invasion of Iraq. Every sane person on the planet knows that it was illegal, that it certainly was not undertaken in the name of freedom and that even if that was the intention (but it wasn't - it was purely an act of revenge) it should be obvious to everyone that it is failing miserably and has absolutely no chance of success in the longer term.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 09, 2004 06:43 AM (6v6bG)

106 Perhaps there should be some Islamics kidnapped and beheaded around the world.

Posted by: bronco billy at October 09, 2004 07:08 AM (olMAb)

107 We do get our freaking oil elsewhere--Canada, Mexico and Saudi Arabia, NOT Iraq. Hussein funded and trained terrorists whose aim was to attack the USA, this has been proven. Also, when it comes to WMDs, Hussien has a long and violent history, has used WMD's in the past, intelligence from several countries including some Iraqi exiles say he had WMD's or was trying to purchase uranium and other deadly chemicals. The fact that the WMDs were not found doesn't mean they don't exist. Hussein knew well in advance the Americans were coming and he's not stupid enough to leave them to be found.

Americans are not the ones murdering Iraqis, it was Hussein who did that, so why are you so upset that he is no longer in power??? Odd, isn't it. Neither I nor any other American wants to be in Iraq as it's a huge waste of money and lives.

Lastly, we'll stay the hell out of the Middle East when Islamic extremists and the regimes that support them stop making war against us and leave us alone.

Posted by: jack at October 09, 2004 07:21 AM (vwjem)

108 Dear All ,

Though I dont know , what would be your reactions to my msg , as I have been reading the thread for last two hours .... so I have a lot of time to waste .. its not so , actually i was quite busy , but just wanted to see the dtls the incident we all are discussing here . I dontknow how many of you will say a lot of disgusting words about me as well , as what it seems to after reading the whole thread ... how ever i believe that at least you will read it and the my msg. will will be passed on ... First of all let me declare .. I am a true muslim , I am a business man , have many many freinds in UK , USA , Banagladesh , India Geramny , Belgium , canada and so on... I realy love all my freinds and their families like I do love my own . (I dont Chat usually so dont know the short cuts ) So by telling this my purpose was that we muslims are not enimies with other foreigners infact are some times bound in perfact relationships with other religions too .. We are allowed by allah to even " mary to other men and women if they are amongs believer of GOD and are sent with holy books and profits) .. we are allowed to eat in one dish with other followers of GOD .. Islam does not promote any negative thinkings and enimic emotions with others and promote love ,peace, fair dealings , humanity and Justice ,..... yet it does not allow any muslim to bear " unjustified cruel actions against one and also the fellow brothers and sisters" and actually I hare want to condemn the death of OLD Mr.Bigley and agree that it was a brutal act on part of a few muslim extremist who are not even privilaged to live in there homelands for many many years. YES the act was brutal .. bbut we should go a step behind in their lives to see how they been treated ... wat are there woes ... how they become cruel ... what happened with their families ... what happened with their womans .. childern .. who they are ,, plz keep aside for a moment they are muslims ... let see if they are only humans ... did they get what they deservered ... were they able to live happily in their homes .. noo not at all ... most of peple discussing above were worried what if these barbarians find a way to there homes ?? will they will be safe ... so as a matter of fact every one want to be laberated ... ones liberty and own free will and country are basics .. plz dont mind but pick the history and evaluate ur self what been happening in the world ....

why Jappanese were bombed , why USA is not a terrorist .. mind it plz its not people that play the role its the government / presidents that promote the haterd

What been happening in Afghanistan ... not in recent years but even in early days ... some year back I heard some child picked a doll from the road and implanted bomb went blastd.. so that is power ... is that humanity ..

what been happening in Kashmir ... every day 5-10 pepople die... why ...

wats happening in Palistine ... armourd Tanks VS Street boys with stones in Hand .... is what their destiny .... they had to find a way .. why to be crushed under tanks ???? if life is to be gone ... why not at least take that tank awy with your self . so that there next gegeratin is secured of one tank at least .. they were pushed for suicide bombing.. are they not ... ??

i am not a history student , not so good in english , not have even much knowledge about all the warfares going arround ... but one thing I am sure of in most of the cases MUSLIMS OF THE WORLD ARE PUSHED TO REACT ... they been pushed to the wall ... They are being crushed in their houses ... only reason behind is that big terrorist states are watching their interests .. that s all.. playing political games for their benifits and reaching there goals..

cant to all see how many many hundred thousand ppl worldwide been crusade... by USA .. UK and allied forces... its all for their own ( state) benifits.. how many childern been killed .. women been mistreated ... what happend in prisoners camps...?? why USA silient on those allegation .. may be it was an act of few to disgust the whole nation ... what about other prisons.. you know it happens there too even still ..

You think the purpose to kill Mr. Bigley was to Kill him ... no its like these barbarians are trying to scare the other nations to leave their home towns to let them live in peace in their homes atleast ..It was to warn the govenments involved to get there troops ppl out of their home towns .... you can check the history of all so called barbarians that they are home less ppl who are always in front of death yet to live ...

I give tribute to Mr.Bigleys .. high words for him from my heart .. first of all he was a human ... an old man ............ he was harm less ... yet his death can be of a lot of value .. if ppl like bush and blair take it on theirs nervers , take there troops off and let the ppl of world live in peace. ...

If they dont learn from all such incidents in past few months world over .. they will have to face more severe consequencies.

Did you ever think why a suiside bomber let his life go.... just in a try to establish peace in world ... bcos its all warnings to states involved .. see what ISRAEL doing such an in justice!!

Posted by: TRUTH at October 09, 2004 07:53 AM (aHlzf)

109 Dear All ,

Though I dont know , what would be your reactions to my msg , as I have been reading the thread for last two hours .... so I have a lot of time to waste .. its not so , actually i was quite busy , but just wanted to see the dtls the incident we all are discussing here . I dontknow how many of you will say a lot of disgusting words about me as well , as what it seems to after reading the whole thread ... how ever i believe that at least you will read it and the my msg. will will be passed on ... First of all let me declare .. I am a true muslim , I am a business man , have many many freinds in UK , USA , Banagladesh , India Geramny , Belgium , canada and so on... I realy love all my freinds and their families like I do love my own . (I dont Chat usually so dont know the short cuts ) So by telling this my purpose was that we muslims are not enimies with other foreigners infact are some times bound in perfact relationships with other religions too .. We are allowed by allah to even " mary to other men and women if they are amongs believer of GOD and are sent with holy books and profits) .. we are allowed to eat in one dish with other followers of GOD .. Islam does not promote any negative thinkings and enimic emotions with others and promote love ,peace, fair dealings , humanity and Justice ,..... yet it does not allow any muslim to bear " unjustified cruel actions against one and also the fellow brothers and sisters" and actually I hare want to condemn the death of OLD Mr.Bigley and agree that it was a brutal act on part of a few muslim extremist who are not even privilaged to live in there homelands for many many years. YES the act was brutal .. bbut we should go a step behind in their lives to see how they been treated ... wat are there woes ... how they become cruel ... what happened with their families ... what happened with their womans .. childern .. who they are ,, plz keep aside for a moment they are muslims ... let see if they are only humans ... did they get what they deservered ... were they able to live happily in their homes .. noo not at all ... most of peple discussing above were worried what if these barbarians find a way to there homes ?? will they will be safe ... so as a matter of fact every one want to be laberated ... ones liberty and own free will and country are basics .. plz dont mind but pick the history and evaluate ur self what been happening in the world ....

why Jappanese were bombed , why USA is not a terrorist .. mind it plz its not people that play the role its the government / presidents that promote the haterd

What been happening in Afghanistan ... not in recent years but even in early days ... some year back I heard some child picked a doll from the road and implanted bomb went blastd.. so that is power ... is that humanity ..

what been happening in Kashmir ... every day 5-10 pepople die... why ...

wats happening in Palistine ... armourd Tanks VS Street boys with stones in Hand .... is what their destiny .... they had to find a way .. why to be crushed under tanks ???? if life is to be gone ... why not at least take that tank awy with your self . so that there next gegeratin is secured of one tank at least .. they were pushed for suicide bombing.. are they not ... ??

i am not a history student , not so good in english , not have even much knowledge about all the warfares going arround ... but one thing I am sure of in most of the cases MUSLIMS OF THE WORLD ARE PUSHED TO REACT ... they been pushed to the wall ... They are being crushed in their houses ... only reason behind is that big terrorist states are watching their interests .. that s all.. playing political games for their benifits and reaching there goals..

cant to all see how many many hundred thousand ppl worldwide been crusade... by USA .. UK and allied forces... its all for their own ( state) benifits.. how many childern been killed .. women been mistreated ... what happend in prisoners camps...?? why USA silient on those allegation .. may be it was an act of few to disgust the whole nation ... what about other prisons.. you know it happens there too even still ..

You think the purpose to kill Mr. Bigley was to Kill him ... no its like these barbarians are trying to scare the other nations to leave their home towns to let them live in peace in their homes atleast ..It was to warn the govenments involved to get there troops ppl out of their home towns .... you can check the history of all so called barbarians that they are home less ppl who are always in front of death yet to live ...

I give tribute to Mr.Bigleys .. high words for him from my heart .. first of all he was a human ... an old man ............ he was harm less ... yet his death can be of a lot of value .. if ppl like bush and blair take it on theirs nervers , take there troops off and let the ppl of world live in peace. ...

If they dont learn from all such incidents in past few months world over .. they will have to face more severe consequencies.

Did you ever think why a suiside bomber let his life go.... just in a try to establish peace in world ... bcos its all warnings to states involved .. see what ISRAEL doing such an in justice!!

Posted by: peace at October 09, 2004 08:03 AM (hPPTC)

110 Chris is correct. Muslim fundamentalists are as dangerous as Hitler. They have the same goal. Its only a matter of time before the civilized world will have to destroy them in self defense.

That said, all Muslims do not think this way and are for all intents and purposes peaceful people. My problem with them is that they are not vocal enough in their opposition to fundamentalists. Speak up people!! You should feel just as threatened by these mental cases.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at October 09, 2004 08:38 AM (a6EvO)

111 Everyone needs to see these videos. It is not enough to simply know that they exsist. To describe the circumstances of the murder doesn't do justice to the crime. It waters it down. We must look evil in the eyes, and not waver. The minute you take your eyes off of these monsters, the compassion in your heart will begin to endow them with mercy. Do it in honor of the slaughtered. I have links on my website. Nothing is more powerful than the truth.

Posted by: jackie at October 09, 2004 09:49 AM (kBle0)

112 Violence is not the answer. We here in Liverpool grieve for Ken and pray for his family. Not all Muslims are bad people, just like all Christians are not good. It is because of the hatered shown towards the Muslim faith and what the American Govenrment have done that we are in this position now. I would say to the terrorists to follow the way of Ghandi and Martin Luther King if you truely want to see change.Violence only breeds more vilence and hate and serves no purpose. By doing such violent and senseless acts you will never win. I ghope those responsible are fed to the pigs because they threaten the safety of all, including Muslims.
Peace
Lyn



Posted by: Lyn at October 09, 2004 10:26 AM (YVtGZ)

113 It has to be realised that all the hate between the christians and muslims has been created by the devil worshiping jews, who have major influence on world politics and media.The war on terror is a excuse for the jews to gain a major influence in the middle east, as they fear one day these evil bastard jews will be eliminated from the face of the earth so peace loving people can live together in harmony. Sorry America this war on terror will break your spine within the next 25 years rest assured!

Saddam was taken as you thought he had weapons of mass destruction but Israel has more of these weapons than any other nation in the world. Israel is in breach of more human rights laws than any other nation. The jews are in breach of more United Nations laws than any other nation. Why?

Because America is the super power but it bows it's head to one country that is Israel.

However, this is to come to a bitter and bloody end as Islam is now ready to take over.

Sharon,Bush,Blair,cheney,powell,rice, your place in hell has been reserved.

Posted by: Bakhtawar Hussain at October 09, 2004 10:38 AM (cVR67)

114 When our lads find this Abu Musab al-Zarqawi they need to get a blunt rusty knife and cut off his bollocks and shove them down his throat. Then we can watch him choke to death on his own nuts. Lets see if he thinks this is a glorious death.

Posted by: English john at October 09, 2004 10:45 AM (hX+K3)

115 NO everyone does not have to see these videos!!
But if you do then please do try and aquire and watch a video of every child that died in blasts and the likes and ones whos in brains were being blown out and watch them die slowly with no body around either and then sit with the same hate as you do to the beheaders as you do with the people who fired the missile and do not be doing the 'innocents all get killed in war, they were not targeted' because that is then the same for Ken Biggley.

Then also somebody needs to get their intelligence right and start hitting their targets ....far too many targets not hit and innocent people and children getting killed. It such happenings hit your soil you are soon going to change your mind about this war!!!

FACT: More uk soldiers were killed by American soldiers in the gulf war than they were by SADDAM.

Posted by: Sense at October 09, 2004 10:47 AM (9O1gC)

116 i feel real sorry 4 kens family,e didnt deserve wot happend 2 him at all! if i cud id hunt the killer down my self! HE NEEDS 2 DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: sophie at October 09, 2004 11:22 AM (vv0qK)

117 I feel deeply sorry for Kens family. My heart goes out to them. His killer should be hunted down and slowly killed so he feels every bit of pain!!

Posted by: louise at October 09, 2004 11:52 AM (4CWh3)

118 I can't believe the world today, all this fighting, murder and stealing. Life is so precious and it makes me sick to the stomach that some people can take a life without feeling anything! I made myself watch one of the beheading videos and I was shocked and sick to the stomach that this could happen. That guy was someones son, brother, father friend and his life was taken in such a barbabric and disgraceful way. How can people be allowed to do that? I live in the UK and was so sad to hear that Bigley was killed. We now have reports he escaped for 30 mins with the aid of one of his captors. I have 2 sons and keep thinking have I done the right thing bringing them into a world where people are being killed without remorse. I just hope the world is at peace one day.

Posted by: Lou at October 09, 2004 12:00 PM (JIV7L)

119 I can't believe this; all three hostages killed. These terrorists WILL get their punishment in this life or the next, because God is just. This horrible behavior will be justified one way or another. This beheavior itself to me is evidence that Hell exists, because there is no ligical way that someone could get away with this.

Posted by: Paul at October 09, 2004 12:54 PM (rbzh4)

120 Any Muslim, including I might add some on this list who refuses to condemn this savagery is as guilty as those that carry out the act it self.

I do agree however that we in the west tend to think that we are the only race to suffer when someone dies we forget that Iraqies feel pain and loss when a child or any other member of their family dies too.

But the Islamic religeon teaches hatred of the infidel and clearly orders its followers to slay none believers...these murderers in Iraq and elsewhere are following the Koran which is littered with passages of hate towards non believers and even against christians.........

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 09, 2004 01:05 PM (sxo7v)

121 It is high time that the state terrorism that Israel is practising against the Palistinians was halted. The Jews are the first to complain about the Halocaust and concentration camps and yet here they are persicuting the Palistinians and confining them to a life of poverty and confining them to nothing other than "concentration camps" Whilst I do not condomn suicide bombings, what other option do these poor people have. Their fate is in the hands of the evil greedy jewish lobby in America.
Until that problem is sorted out.....we can all forget about peace.........

Posted by: Gagged by blair at October 09, 2004 01:17 PM (sxo7v)

122 Ok, I am getting sick and tired of everyone saying, "what if someone came into your country and invaded your land and killed innocent victims? Hello! We did NOT go over there to kill and behead, as they are doing! Hell, they're even beheading their own Iraqis! How can you all say well that's what you get when you invade a country that didn't ask for it. I disagree!

Why don't the terrorists put on soldier uniforms and fight our troops? Why do they hide behind the masks and slaughter people that are not even fighting them but just working and minding their own business? If they are mad we invaded their territory, why are they beheading their own people as well?

Posted by: Laura at October 09, 2004 01:27 PM (ptOpl)

123 Message to Bakhtawar Hussain

Surprisingly enough I find myself agreeing with you, but what you have to remember Bakhtawar is that not every American or collation citizen agreed with going to war. In fact many millions did not.

We did not have a say !!

Ken Bigley did not have a say in the decision to invade Iraq !!

The Jews world wide are a menace and always have been since time began, they are intelligent greedy manipulators that have no loyalty to their host country and have spent the last 2000 years being evicted from every European country for a variety of devious undertakings. People are force fed Zionist propaganda which shows the Jews to be the victim when in fact they have out witted and conned their way through this world, and are guilty of nepotism, disloyalty and out and out deception where ever they make their home. It is a common misconception that 1930,s Germany was the first regime to persecute the Jews,

Do not believe it!!

America is controlled by a Zionist empire which owns and controls every major company, media (TV and newspaper) and contributes over 50% of the Democratic Party’s coffers. The congress is dominated by Jews and so is foreign policy decisions. If the Iraq war was about getting rid of a tyrant then next stop should Zimbabwe, We all know however that will never happen, Zimbabwe is no threat to America’s closest Friend ..............Murdering Israel.

A Closing point.....It’s alright for Israel to have nuclear weapons but not Iran ???? What kind of Bullshit is that ?????

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 09, 2004 01:40 PM (sxo7v)

124 Message to Laura

This is what happens when you try to Westernise a country that does not want to be westernised !!

It is hypocritical of Britain to try to force democracy on another country when Britain its self is not a "Democratic" Country

The BNP is a legitimate political party in the UK that recently polled a million votes yet it is denied access to the media and is constantly targeted by the Zionist/Marxist media.

We behave like the worlds policeman when its suits are political aims yet we ignore blatant brutality carried out by blacks against whites as in Zimbabwe..........Why because there is no oil ?????

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 09, 2004 01:56 PM (sxo7v)

125 Message for gagged by blair

The racist propaganda as spouted by your 'legitimate' party has been discredited on many occasions. Hate breeds hate.

Peace

Posted by: Andy nonomous at October 09, 2004 02:16 PM (3axXl)

126 Why did 'we' invade Iraq? Oil, and only oil.
The USA and UK dropped the ball in the Afghan looking for Osama by invading Iraq and allowed world terrorism to flourish.
Muslims? Theres good and theres bad. Christians? Good and bad.
Ken Bigley, a wasted human life, All thanks to Bush and Blair.
Who the hell do the USA and UK leaders think they are invading other countries on the pretext of WMD?
Bush only wanted to invade Iraq because Daddy fucked up and didn't do the job right the first time.

Posted by: Sane One at October 09, 2004 03:16 PM (yH6Ds)

127 I feel for all that have been beheaded/killed, but we all know that americans can never stoop that low to kill someone for killing until there is a fair trial and all the crap that surrounds it.Sometimes I wonder about this war and knowing how justified it was to bring out and kill those responsible for the actions of 9/11. Saddam is guilty one way or another, don't be so nieve to think otherwise. There are others that need to face the US as well, but the rules should change. Enough worring about who will think what. It is time NOW to start getting real tough and just do what we have to do. Iraq, get your kids and women out of the way, I believe these barbarions are about to get eliminated. Too bad it wil be a quick death. I am sure that president bush and blair are pissed enough but are holding off making a gapping crator out of IRAQ, but It is just a matter of time. Oh and all you assholes out there that think this is an oil war...FUCK your oil, I will ride my bicycle. All of you assholes that are killing for the koran or whatever that dishrag is, get real and live for the age. All the asshole muslums in the US and UK...Go FUCK YOURSELVES. When in rome do as the romans do. Your in free countrys, live that way. Fuck your shit religion and find a new one.

Posted by: disgusted at October 09, 2004 03:21 PM (C1dPO)

128 End the War in Iraq? Ok, let's grease all our bullets with pig and hog fat, advertise it all over the middle east...that will separate the men from the boys and end the war...

Posted by: Trooper at October 09, 2004 03:33 PM (mMBjH)

129 Its intersting how the conversation went from condemnation of terrorists by the regulars around this area to a bunch of texting teens looking to get thier rocks of by showing their buddies how they found the footage of the last minutes of doomed man. Though many will not agree the fact is simple about religous fanaticisim: Christian fanatics, Jewish Fanatics, Muslim Fanatics ... or simply any cooky weirdo dressed in fatigues talking to God over a two way radio while mumbleing incoherently about freedom will make our life interesting. Simply put, religious fanatics will use the wind direction or the flight of a fly as reason to uphold their view what is right or wrong.

Posted by: Salamander at October 09, 2004 04:11 PM (/Yy1W)

130 All this conflicts between the western world and Islamic people is against GODS WILL.......

Posted by: Afrim Krasniqi at October 09, 2004 04:54 PM (A4vTC)

131 That god gave Abraham the land around the Euphrates River and not the land that is now the U S of A
So think before you say God Bless America

Posted by: Remember at October 09, 2004 04:55 PM (N4Dom)

132 Fucking nuke all those fucking foreign countries. Every one is fucked up beyond repair. WE SHOULD NUKE THEM ALL AND DO THE WORLD A FUCKING FAVOR.

Posted by: cody at October 09, 2004 05:10 PM (Yfutl)

133 Nuke them ALL with America's record on hitting targets?

They would hit near a shore and cause major tidal waves to little islands like the UK!

You sit in your nice little life with your nice little computer while there are innocent iraqi children dead and disabled for life and some left with no limbs but you wish to nuke more...

You sick individual.

Posted by: Remember at October 09, 2004 05:22 PM (N4Dom)

134 Go watch some Jerry Springer and have a big mac and a coke and "nuke" off..lol..another idiotic redneck cowboy!

Posted by: disgusted2 at October 09, 2004 05:25 PM (+lFt6)

135 I do not believe for one second that Ken did an escape attempt either.. that is just to take the heat off of the British Government for not complying with the kidnappers(not that i am saying that they should!)

like a
"Well if he didn't try to escape the sas would have got there in time" or
"who knows if he would still be alive if he hadnt tried to escape"

Posted by: Remember at October 09, 2004 05:27 PM (N4Dom)

136 I think that GW is setting up for a final confrontation. Iraq is a very strategic location for our air bases and army to work from. Those sob's been fighting since time began. Its time to take them out. They can't fight if they are all dead. The world will be a much better place without those fucking muslims. They are sick mother fuckers who all belong in hell. Lets waste 'em.

Posted by: Tony Lee at October 09, 2004 05:33 PM (+5guj)

137 I read up there someone say about "Too bad it hasn't stopped other countries from messing with us"
Talking of Japan and atom bomb and USA.

Yea right cos America is the big power right?
Too bad you couldn't stop planes going in your towers, seeing as you are the GOD of GODs with a village idiot as a president.

Posted by: American intelligence an oxymoron at October 09, 2004 05:39 PM (N4Dom)

138 I can only imagine how barbaric and nasty extremist criminals you guys would be if only you had the chance (and enough balls!!) Just read the crap you guys are writing about muslims,you are scum just like the criminals who murdered Mr. Bigley,only that you are christian scum and they are muslim,same shit,different background.

Posted by: disgusted2 at October 09, 2004 05:45 PM (+lFt6)

139 GW couldn't set up a bank account!

Posted by: American_Intelligence_an_Oxymoron at October 09, 2004 05:45 PM (N4Dom)

140 The people who write "Nuke em all" "waste them all" and couldn't give a damn about human life would be the first to ring the police when they have been robbed or mugged or assaulted.They also cannot link God to their name.

Put it into perspective people!

Iraqi oils supply =114 years
Usa=14 years
Go figure!!!

Posted by: American_Intelligence_an_Oxymoron at October 09, 2004 05:50 PM (N4Dom)

141 To those who are complaining that they haven't heard muslims condem the murder of Bigley,you are obviouly illiterate,also i didn't see any of the Jerry Springer nation condem the killings of the children and women in Iraq either,or the torture of men there by the American rednecks,instead i hear lots of "nuke them all" and all that crap revealing how sick&retarded you guys are.

Posted by: disgusted2 at October 09, 2004 05:54 PM (+lFt6)

142 By the way where is Osama?
Having lunch with daddy?

Posted by: American_Intelligence_an_Oxymoron at October 09, 2004 05:59 PM (N4Dom)

143 If someone, such as George W. Bush, John Kerry or Tony Blair is pretending to be a Christian there is a sure fire way of putting them on the spot to see if they are telling the truth. Dig out your Bible and see 1 John 4:2-3
The skull and cross bones is used in the third degree 'rebirth' initiation of freemasons - in a mockery of being 'born again' into the kingdom of Jesus Christ.

What interests me is that the 2004 US Presidential race is unique because of Bones. This is the first ever presidential election in which two Bonesmen are running against each other, ensuring a Bonesman in office. The S&B members are sworn to allegiance with one another over all else. This makes me question the agenda of whoever is in office. Is their allegiance above that they swear to their country and its constitution?

George Herbert Walker Bush, George W. Bush, and Prescott Bush (who is rumored to have stolen the skull of Geronimo during a 1943 grave robbing as part of a S&B rite) are all members and so was John Kerry.

Posted by: Skull and Bones society? at October 09, 2004 06:12 PM (N4Dom)

144 All we are saying is give peace a chance (John Lenon) it would have been his 64th birthday today,


godbless the GOOD people that live all over this earth (we will one day unite)


I'm English & proud to be apart of America




Posted by: Terry Sim at October 09, 2004 07:13 PM (GbUXA)

145 OK hmmmm. The story we are being asked to believe is that we've got a 60 odd year old bloke breaking out of a terrorist prison camp like Rambo. If that were the case he would have escaped a crack terrorist group who were 30/40 years younger than him who probably knew the area well LMAO. The poor bastard never had a chance from day 1 and was a pawn a larger game of political chess.

Politicains keep repeating this thing about Saddam being evil but at least he kept a lid on all these bastards that seem to be causing all the shit in Iraq these days (and by this I mean both terrorists and western governments). There have been WMD in the middle east for several decades (Isreal - the worst terrorist nation on earth) and no-one has done anything until recently.

Mark my words, there's more to this one than meets the eye and it will all come out in the wash one day :-)

Posted by: jaz at October 09, 2004 07:15 PM (d1+6p)

146 Hey English lad, spell your own kind's name right, would ja? It's "LENNON", and not "LENON"...surprised you didn't spell it "LENIN"..hehe.

Wonder what Johnny's boy would've thought of this mess?

Posted by: Laura at October 09, 2004 07:58 PM (ptOpl)

147 Reading the posts on this thread has only confirmed what I already knew: RELIGION IS THE ROOT OF 99% OF ALL EVIL. Anybody who is willing to kill and hate over some the beliefs of the people that walked this earth thousands of years ago is a mentally underdeveloped sheep posing as a human being.

What other aspects of your lives do you base on your ancestors? They shit upstream and drank downstream. On the evolutionary scale, they were a few thousand years shy of burning witches at the stake. But because these barbaric ancestors of ours left some of their psychotic ramblings on stone tablets, we have people walking around ready to kill and destroy on the word of our barbaric ancestors. I can't be the only one who feels this way... they play NFL football on Sundays for a reason.

Time to grow up as a species and quit worshipping non existant omnipotent beings. This whole religous squabbling sounds like a "Tastes great Less filling" debate.


Posted by: Mike - a proud atheist at October 09, 2004 10:05 PM (a6EvO)

148 As much as I hate to admit it, Mike has some good points. Most of the wars, esp. the Mid East conflicts have been "in the name of relgion". What good and loving God would lead these people into thinking that killing was a good thing? No God I know. The innocent children you all are claiming in this forum that are being killed by our troops, if not killed, would surely grow up to hate us or kill us. We are only getting rid of the enemy. What's wrong with that? Kill or be killed, plain and simple.

Just because no WMD were found in Iraq, don't mean they didn't have any. Just means Saddam found a good hiding place. Hmmmm, maybe they're with Osama, since he is equally adept at hiding from us as well.

Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11? He hated terrorists? Now those points I can't agree with. Killing and torturing his own people make him alright, because he hated terrorists? Maybe that was because they had more control than he did? Saddam was a modern day Hitler, a crazed genius, who put his knowledge and power to use in the wrongest of ways.

I think it's all related, Afghanistan, Iraq, OBL, Saddam....they all hate us.

Posted by: Laura at October 09, 2004 10:18 PM (ptOpl)

149 Young children and babies who's families actually wanted rid of Saddam were the enemy?
Did not you not read what Jay had to say?

The difference is USA doesn't and never has told its people what they REALLY do!Don't forget the funding of the IRA as well Jay for your lesson.

They will hate you now.. families wiped out with a few left will turn into Osama's overnight..and who could blame them!You need to go out and see some of these casualities and murders done in front of your eyes and see if you still think the same,easy to sit in your nice cosy house sipping your nice cosy tea thinking you have the problems of the world when it is mildly upset!

This really is just the beginning....

Here is my Lesson of the day..
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!!!!!!!

Posted by: Idiots r us at October 09, 2004 10:34 PM (N4Dom)

150 Blair didn't even offer to swap places with Ken how brave of him...

Posted by: Idiots_r_us at October 09, 2004 10:38 PM (N4Dom)

151 Go to bed, Idiots r us...your name says it all! We don't go there and purposely kill innocent victims, torture and behead them! We are fighting their troops over there, innocent people get killed in the name of war, it happens, we don't intentionally go over there and BEHEAD AND KEEP THEM IN CAGES AND MAKE THEM PLEAD AND BEG FOR THEIR LIVES!!!

That is insanity at its worst, when will you people realize this? That it's the Americans' fault that they are doing this is outrageous, and only fuels the propaganda against us.

I'm going to bed, I cannot argue with idiots anymore today.

Posted by: Laura at October 09, 2004 10:42 PM (ptOpl)

152 Please. Using the f word is only making it loose its original meaning. There will always be fighting in the world. If anyone wanted peace, than nothing would happen. Peace is when nothing happens. But during that period, someone wants to overthrow peace and start ruining lives. Too bad for the terrorists. Hopefully, they will begin to understand that what they have done is wrong. I'm not condoning them. The terrorists, and everybody, is not perfect, even me. However, everybody has the power to change. If death would teach them a lesson, and if God wants it to happen, whatever happens, it has a purpose.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 09, 2004 10:57 PM (hL5HB)

153 Reading some of the comments on this site, what truly distubs me is just how ignorant and simple some of you idiots are. I understand you're angry, but resorting to statements like "NUKE THE WHOLE LOT OF THEM GODDAMN SAND NIGGERS" etc is really really sad. Really tough aren't we sitting on the other side of the world behind your computer screen. Lets review what's happened so far. Pay attention you might learn something (but I'm not holding out much hope)

USA fabricates a lie to justify the invasion of Iraq in the name of OIL, MONEY and GREED despite opposition from almost the entire western world. Rest of civilised world loses what little remaining respect we had for USA and hatred for greedy trigger-happy redneck war-mongering middle America grows.

America's illegal occupation of Iraq results in the MURDER of thousands more innocent Iraqi civilians.

America admits there never were any weapons of mass destruction and the entire justification for their war is voided.

As Arab hatred for America intensifies, extremist terrorists respond by killing innocent western civilians (lured to a war zone with the promise of lucrative contracts). American public responds with statements like "WE SHOULD JUST NUKE THE WHOLE LOT OF THEM SAND NIGGERS" and the cycle of hatred is repeated.

Don't you see the pattern here? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Instead of just acting on raw emotion why don't you try actually engaging your brain and THINKING for a minute. No wonder the world is such a complete mess with muppets like you comprising the vast majority of the western world. Please for the sake of humanity - stop and think before you post such ignorant fascist rantings.

Posted by: Think about it at October 09, 2004 11:13 PM (dzEVR)

154 Laura, to comment on your comments about history. Saddam was committing genocide against his people. To clean his people of the unwanted, that didn't believe what he did. He considered them a threat, so Hilter was also guilty of these crimes, cause of the belief that he wanted have the perfect race, though in his minds eye he wasn't one. The man was just hungry for power and wealth. But you just can't blame the Americans for the 1980s and the middle east cause your prime minister at the time Margaret Thatcher was close to the Reagan Adminstration. She was also involved in the fiasco to stop the spread of communism in the World. Just remember that, the more we talk about religion and war the more it sounds like the crusades all over again, but this time on a much grander scale.

Posted by: jay at October 09, 2004 11:16 PM (inWMp)

155 EVERYONE SAYS NUKE THEM ALL OR WE SHOULDNT BE OVER THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. YOU CANT NUKE THEM SOMEONE WILL MORE THAN LIKELY NUKE US. AND IT DOESNT MATTER IF WE SHOULD OR SHOULDNT BE OVER THERE THE FACT IS THAT WE ARE OVER THERE FIGHTING SO WHAT THE FUCK IS ALL THE FUSS ABOUT? SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SUPPORT OUR TROOPS AND HOPE THEY GET HOME SOON AND SAFE>

Posted by: shit happens at October 09, 2004 11:39 PM (3K9Lc)

156 nuking all of them just means we would kill innocent lives and be just as bad as them. As far as the beheadings, while i feel for them and thier families, they made the choice to go there and make the big bucks, too bad money means more than life to some people

Posted by: Bob at October 10, 2004 12:53 AM (zykuo)

157 Saddam Hussein is going to get what he deserves for what he has done. That is a good thing. Killing innocent civilians is not a good thing. It doesn't matter who does it.

Collateral damage is always an expected part of war, it doesn't matter to those who are killed or who have lost their family members whether you wanted to do it or not. They are still victims. The number of victims did not have to be as big as it is. If Bush had planned better and not allowed the Arab terrorists into Iraq in the first place and sent enough troops into Iraq in the first place to maintain security, then this crap wouldn't be going on and many less Coalition forces would be dead today. The Bush plan sucks. If we are honest with ourselves we can admit that, even if Bush cannot.

I was not in favor of invading Iraq when Bush decided to do it, but as someone said previously, we are there and we (our troops)now have a job to do. We must support them and give them what they need to do it. Bush has failed to do that. When soldiers are ordering body armor over the internet or their families are having to send it to them because they don't have it, it is a travesty.

I don't know how Bush can get on television and say that he is doing everything to make sure the soldiers are equipped when he knows he is lying. He said that he wouldn't do anything different if he could do it again. He is a fool if that is how he really feels. He should see that what he has done is half-baked at best, incompetent, gross negligence and criminal at worst. He should be able see the terrible mistakes he has made, they have been pointed out often enough.

He should realize that there can not be any real chance for peaceful, "real" elections in Iraq until the peace is won for real. The Arab terrorists have to driven out or killed. I really don't think he is that stupid, who could be that stupid? (Maybe I give him too much credit???) I think he will add many more troops shortly after the American election and do what he has not done so far, clean out the cities because surely he knows that elections can't happen until that is done.

Even with elections, the Americans will not be able to leave Iraq because the country will deteriorate rapidly into civil war. There are too many factions that are not going to accept the outcome = a puppet government. The other problem is next door, Iran and Syria. Both would love to see the US pull out prematurely, both would foment anarchy and civil unrest.

As I have said, I was not in favor of invading Iraq but we must stay the course now unless we want even more problems in the future. Bush says that democracy is the answer to the situation. There will never be western style democracy in most of the middle east. There might be the faccade of democracy, but the fact is that these countries do not have our western values and are happy to live under medieval type government. It is us that are trying to change them, not the people of the countries who want to change. Because of that, we will not be successful in winning the hearts and minds of the people in most cases. Especially if we try to use our armies to do it.

Posted by: rick at October 10, 2004 01:29 AM (xp3T5)

158 The poster 'Think About It' refers to those who say "G.S. Sand N*ggers' as simple and ignorant but yet he/she turns around and does the same thing by referring to all in middle America(which he/she knows nothing about) as warmonger,trigger-happy, rednecks. Talk about hypocrisy. I really can't blame 'Think About It' and other Europeans as they are so brainwashed about Americans by their socialist-type news medias that they don't know any better. 'Think About It' is funny in that unknowingly naive but pompous-I-know-everything-way that only Europeans can have, but once again I digress as Euros don't get much of the facts from their medias.

Posted by: jack at October 10, 2004 02:34 AM (5Izqa)

159 Message to andy nonmous

You are typical of the brain washed Englishman who has sat with his thumb up his arse watching soaps/porn or sport whilst his/her country has been invaded by immigrants. Which will sooner than you think leave you in the minority. Then we'll see how many freedoms YOU are afforded when Britain becomes an Islamic state. We'll see how YOU fare when you become a foreigner in your own land..................because its coming my friend

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 02:48 AM (vClL7)

160 Could some one explain this passage which is contained within the Koran (Surah 9 verse 29)

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

I could not help but notice the first 8 words they jumped off the page !!

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 02:53 AM (vClL7)

161 As desperatly sorry as I am for Ken and his family, I can only echo what i have heard a lot of people saying at work etc...

That he probably knew the risk before going to Iraq but decided that the monetary gain was worth that risk...

I've no doubt that others considering taking a similar chance are now reconsidering.....

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 03:17 AM (vClL7)

162 Those bastards. Those f---ing BASTARDS! I'd like to gather up all my redneck, P.M.S.-ing girlfriends and go flush out those scums ("scums" is too clean & nice a word) AND RIP THEIR DAMN HEADS OFF!! Forgive my language and anger. I try to be a prayerful person. This is getting on my nerves really bad. Ya'll light Mr. Bigley a candle today.

Posted by: bamafan at October 10, 2004 04:54 AM (6W5OM)

163 Driving a car has risks yet most people go out and drive defensively and don't think they'll die in a wreck. The same goes for jobs. While Mr. Bigley and others knew Iraq had risks, they likely thought that if they were careful, it wouldn't happen to them. Anyway, so what if they wanted to earn a good living, nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: lee at October 10, 2004 04:58 AM (LUy8K)

164 London, 11.55am, Sunday. You guys - US citz. - are getting an unfair barrage of criticisms here for views on Muslims, terrorists, freedom fighters. Some of it's invalid, but I guess Al-Zarqawi saw the orange jumpsuits eminating from Bush's US; he probably knew that Bush himself has signed his ample share of death warrants; he probably knows that US governments have kept men on death row for years and then gone on to gas them, or electrocute them, or poison them, or break their necks over many years. Didn't one of your great American songwriters, Stevie Wonder - or was it Dylan? - put it rather eloquently: all is fair in love and war. War is horrendous. Horrendous things happen....

Posted by: UK observer at October 10, 2004 04:58 AM (duH6H)

165 Orange jumpsuits have been part of American prison attire since long before Bush... so your point is??? Are you talking about the death penalty in our country, well that's OUR business. Take care of the problems in YOUR own country, I mean hell, you people in the UK are so lenient on crime it's pathetic, at least we don't slap murderers and rapist on the wrists and let them out after a year like you do!!!

Oh and Zaqawi does what he does because he is ruthless, evil and has an Islamic extremist agenda, it would make no difference whether the US had the death penalty or wore orange jumpsuits or whatever--how simple some of these comments are.

Posted by: lee at October 10, 2004 05:14 AM (LUy8K)

166 ....It's called the simple truth!

Posted by: UK observer at October 10, 2004 05:17 AM (duH6H)

167 the only way to fix the situation in iraq is to take and intern them in democratic camps where they can live and see the advantages of a free society

Posted by: fran vanderweyst at October 10, 2004 05:33 AM (PcgQk)

168 no, it's just called simple.

Posted by: lee at October 10, 2004 06:05 AM (LUy8K)

169 People.......People, can't we have some respect please? Come on... We've all had enough of everyone arguing what was right what was wrong etc.....but no one thinks of the poor family of ken bigley... and no one thinks of letting this go, and leaving him to be in peace. I know what happened to him was wrong, and heartbreaking, but please.. have some respect to his family. Stop bringing this up and arguing, dont you think you're being selfish also asking for his video? i think this is ever so cruel,and I bloody hope u don't get hold of this video to see the painful death of ken bigley. If you would like to say a few words for his family and in rememberance to ken bigley, please sign my guest book for him,I have created a website in his rememberance and would be ever so grateful to hear kind words for him and his family. The link is: wwwdotfreewebsdotcom/rip_ken_bigley (please make sure the "dot" is an actual . dot Thanks.
take a look at this website for me because it is a message for his family (I do regret, I am not able to put the guest book on there for 7 days..but shall do so after 7 days so you can leave your thoughts and feelings on there. Thanks for looking at it. I do have a chatroom though, and would be grateful to speak to anyone who wants to talk about this tragic event.

Posted by: Hayley at October 10, 2004 07:05 AM (Fb5P6)

170 Message to ahmad

If the land of Allah is so fucking holy and sacred why are so many Muslims flooding to the west for a better life....Its just as well we westerners are not as backward as you fucking morons otherwise there would be Muslim heads rolling.........you can take your holy book and shove it where the sun dont shine you primative, depraved backward fuckers

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 08:04 AM (dxLPS)

171 I have read most of the comments ...and just want to add one of my own. People come from many different backgrounds, nationalities, and religious beliefs ... I have always tried to respect that; however, cold-blooded killings of people not taking arms to fight is evil. The chicken shits don't even have the guts to show their own faces. My opinions have changed ... and I am now without a doubt...an anti-Muslim human being. All the terrorist acts are done by Muslims claiming their acts are for God. It is the Muslims that are creating this "holy" war...and by God I have no problem with the idea of nuking their entire country. And you know why? Because if we don't ...the damn Muslims will continue to cause innocent deaths. They want a holy war...let's give it to them. Kill'em all and let God sort them out. And don't talk to me about Muslims promoting peace and love. I am sure there are a few "good" Muslims out there...so what. And blame me all you want for being a hater. But know this...it was the evil bastards that make videos of beheadings that brought me to hating Muslims. Call me ignorant all you like...I do not give a rat's ass. Muslims are evil fookers and should all be destroyed.

Posted by: IhateMuslims at October 10, 2004 08:09 AM (DZFBG)

172 Appologies to all the civilised people on this list..........but I needed that little out burst.

And that is from someone who does not agree with this war. I have always maintained that it is wrong to try to westernise the arab world. They are a totally different culture and mindset and never the twain shall meet...

It was not long ago that we sided with Sadam in his war with Iran in fact we supplied him with weapons.......................and now ???

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 08:09 AM (dxLPS)

173 message to vamp


Your remarks are not worthy of a response.......you are clearly in need of help

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 08:14 AM (dxLPS)

174 PSYCHOTIC MURDERS.
Savage kidnappers are holding all Iraq to ransom.

The bestial murder of Kenneth Bigley has sent a wave of revulsion not only through Britain but through every land where the vestiges of humananity, dignity and common decency remain. The barbaric beheading of the 62-year-old engineer followed a ritual as chilling as it was repulsive. The helpless victim was dreesed in an orange jump suit similar to the uniform of detainees in Guantanamo Bay. Surrounded by six of his captors, he was forced to read a statement. He was then brutally decapitated with a knife, with the entire unspeakable scene video-taped for display on the internet.
His killing adhered to the pattern of two American hostages seized with him three weeks ago and murdered days later. It brings home, with ghastly clarity, not only the dangers now to all foreigners in Iraq the depravity of those psychotic terrorists torturing and murdering in the perverted name of religion.
Mr Bigley's murder comes after hopes had risen that public appeals, private persuasion and indirect contacts with his captors might lead to his release. The British Government rightly insisted that it would not negotiate with terrorists or bargain for his freedom. But it did everything short of negotiating to persuade the captors that they should spare Mr Bigley's life. It welcomed and supported the mission to Baghdad by two senior representatives of the Muslim Council of Britain. It encouraged Arab leaders whose standing might influence the Islamist extremists to intervene. And it sent Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, to Iraq to repeat Britain's willingness to keep an open mind about the political demands made by the kidnappers.
Why he was murdered just as there were said to be signs of progress remains unclear. It may well be his captors never had any intention of freeing him, and were using the delay to increase the anguish of his family and countrymen, influence British politicians and bolster the standing of the Tawhid wal Jihad group and its psychopathic leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. It is also likely that rumours of "progress", including the transfer of Mr Bigley to another group of kidnappers, were either wishful thinking by those wanting to underline their own importance as intermediaries or misinformation deliberately spread to confuse the police and security forces hunting the captors.
Rightly, those forces did not let up in their campaign to track down the terrorists and criminals holding all Iraq to ransom. At least 150 people have been seized and 27 killed in the present wave of kidnappings. Iraqis as much as Europeans and other foreigners are victims of this criminality, and with every ransom paid or concessions made, the terrorist demands grow and the kidnappers are emboldened. The one thing for which all Iraqis yearn is security; that is not won by bargaining with murderers but by pursuing the perpetrators.
The agonies suffered by Mr Bigley have been all too obvious. No polotician can isolate himself from anguish of decisions not to yield to his pleas. But nobody, and certainly not Tony Blair, can be held responsible for Mr Bigley's death. His murder was committed by selfish, macho medievalists, criminals without a vestige of faith, religion or human feeling who have besmirched their religion and humanity. Mr Bigley worked for Iraq's liberation and rebuilding. His work will not be complete, or Iraq free, untill his killers have been eliminated.

Posted by: paul at October 10, 2004 08:55 AM (IQLj3)

175 Vamp, continue working as a brickie using your hands, because you certainly you don't have a brain, you 'thick-as-fuck' brickies labourer.

Posted by: paul at October 10, 2004 09:15 AM (IQLj3)

176 To those of you who use extremist Christianity to attack the Muslims of this world, I wonder how much you actually understand of their religion?

One simple question.
Who are the two greatest prophets for the Muslim faith?
1. Mohammed
2. Wait for it.... Jesus.

So both religions are based on THE SAME teachings.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all based on the same ideals. Remember that Jesus was a Jew - Christianity didn't start until 300AD!

So stop fighting with words and go over there and help build a school, or a hospital, or more importantly, a water pipe.

Steve.

Posted by: Steve at October 10, 2004 09:16 AM (s1FfP)

177 How to obtain, peace in Irak.........

Nuke the damn place!!!!!!!!!!!

Muslims are no better than rats.

Posted by: Renè at October 10, 2004 09:45 AM (WaL9o)

178 Rusty, please take ahmed and vamp off the forums. Their comments sicken me. I hope to God the hostages' families stay the hell off the internet.

Can u imagine their horror if they were to read these sick comments and witness the beheadings on here?

Thank you.

Posted by: Laura at October 10, 2004 09:46 AM (ptOpl)

179 A link to the video at

http://www.straightbannana.com/

Posted by: splog at October 10, 2004 09:57 AM (PpY3T)

180 Please take Laura off of the blog because I am sickened to my stomach about comments in regard to pressing the button and releasing Nukes and potentially ending all human life and more to the point humans with hearts. Such minds should be locked up forever.

This lady is clearly un-educated and can't see that the Iraqi people do not represent the extremists,beheading.

Out of tragedy comes jokers, there are lots of jokers and lots of jokes but Laura's statements are far from jokes, and I fear she is a sample of the attitude of why 9-11 happened.

Posted by: Law_raw at October 10, 2004 10:05 AM (yZcWI)

181 as an american, i fully understood going to Afganistan.
But, the war in Iraq just didnt seem to fit and each day it seems like it was the wrong thing to do.

my question is this: let's say we fully develop Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology and America no longer needs oil.
Great Idea.
And Let's Say that American decides, they're just not gonna be the World Police Anymore. Unless it's a UN operation, we're not there.
So,we pull our forces out of every eastern Country all over the world.
Do you think that, we'll see beheadings on American Soil, then?
Are we that hated?
I'm still haunted by the Nick Berg beheading.
and Ken's is just another one.
so, do you guys think, we should just cut and run and let Iraq work it out?
I heard the Iraq minister say on tv that he thought they would be ready in about 5 years.
From what ive seen on the news, that's much too long.
what do you guys think?

Posted by: rik at October 10, 2004 10:38 AM (o7aNt)

182 it tears me up inside to know that some people think killing another person under these circumstances is acceptable or even amusing. this world is not a place I wish to be if this is the direction we are heading.

Posted by: torn inside at October 10, 2004 10:56 AM (8mOqb)

183 To Gagged By Blair, if you want to learn more about the Islamic beliefs, here's a website I've found to be useful: wwwDOTyahoodiDOTcom/peace/islam.html. Use the drop down menus up top to read about many terrorist/islam/war topics.

Their good book justifies the killing of anyone who doesn't believe in their teachings. Period. As a muslim, you are condemned to hell if you don't support this opinion. Whether you choose to follow this fatal belief is up to the individual, but as all of history has shown, those who are religious do not have a mind of their own, to make their own decisions, because their decisions have been made for them over the centuries by constant adaptation of folk lore taken to be the word of [thier] god(s).

My opinion is that GW could not send the troops needed to make the Iraq invasion quick and less painless because the American people wouldn't have had it. There was much concern over the number of troops being deployed, as if sending 100,000 was OK, but 300,000 or half a million was look too much like Vietnam. My only hope now is that after the US Presidential election on Nov 2, the US led coalition will quit pussy-footing around in Iraq and get serious, no matter which way the election turns out.

Yes, it's entirely possible that John Kerry will be elected in the US, and he will surely pull all the US troops out of Iraq, have GW and all who supported the Iraq invasion arrested as war criminals (except himself, of course), and Iraq will be free to remain a hotbed of terrorist breeding and training camps. Some of us might not like this approach, but that's the cold hard fact of living in a democratic country, where the people have the right to choose (well, the electoral college, actually, who pick the president, not the "people"),

For all of you who are so surprised that Bush told a lie/tells lies, you have forgotten that to be a politician is to be a professional lier. You lie to get into office (though that's called a campaign "promise"), you lie to insure the prosperity of your family that the rich people who donated their money to GET you into office, and hopefully somewhere along the way, also tell a few lies to protect your country, in the way that you see fit (well, actually, again, not Bush's choice on any of this, but rather the decisions he has made have been the decisions of his party: his supporters, his lobyists, those who got him into office in return for his legislative votes.) And to those who think John Kerry or Ralph Nadar would be any different in office, you're not being realistic. But just as religion gives you all a way to feel good, believing the other guy would be different does the same for you, I suppose.

To those who continue to think that WMD were the "justification" to invade Iraq, you've missed the point. Same to those who think it was simply "revenge" or the easiest excuse in the world: "Oil". And to all of you who think Saddam was no threat to the western world, it's sad that we'll never know what could have happened. Basically we all form two groups: those who would rather wait and see what a terrorist can do to us, and those who want to insure they won't.

I see so many of you holding on to such simplistic ideals, it makes me sad. You start to condemn one another as ignorant, stupid, and blind, then in the very next sentence prove that you are exactly the same as those you accuse. This is sad in a laughable sort of way. I guess that's why none of us are in a position of power in our governments. That's good.

The name calling on this blog has gotten so bad I'll be leaving this blog as it's no longer a source a valid information, but has instead become a form of the Jerry Springer show itself.

Carry On.

Posted by: DB at October 10, 2004 11:08 AM (vQTt9)

184 Bigley was NOT greedy. He was a working class man with a family to support. His son was run over and killed at the age of 17. He was a good man, a father, a brother, a son. He spent his last days in terror, knowing what was surely going to happen to him. For those uneducated cretins who believe he somehow brought this on himself through GREED, why don't you bone up on the facts before you cast aspersions on the poor old man?! HE HAD BEEN LIVING IN IRAQ FOR TEN YEARS. He did not fly out at the first sign of trouble with pound signs in his eyes. Get a fucking life, a brain, and something resembling a soul.

Posted by: Georgina at October 10, 2004 11:13 AM (C17ey)

185 funny how the Japs don't bother the US any more.
maybe iraq needs the same lesson they got, 60 yrs later. slow freakin learners or what?

Posted by: deeps at October 10, 2004 11:20 AM (PcgQk)

186 SEND MORE TROOPS.

Wars invariably produce defining images that stay in our memory for ever. US marines raising the stars and stripes on Iwo Jima was one; the stark, grainy photographs of the D-Day landings another. In Vietnam, the terrible picture of a naked girl fleeing from her napalmed village became an enduring symbol of the violence that engulfed that country. For Iraq, the most memorable image at first was the triumphant toppling of Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad; the most humiliating have been the scenes of torture at Abu Ghraib prison. Even these, however, have been pushed aside by the images of a gaunt and desperate Ken Bigley pleading on television for his life. Mr Bigley did this in the full knowledge of the awful fate of his two fellow hostages. The anguish he must of of suffered is barely imaginable; the cruelty of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his fanatical followers is even more difficult to comprehend.
That Mr Bigley was cynically being used as a political pawn is no surprise. The British government, while it had opened a dialogue with his captors, could never be seen to negotiate with terrorists. Tony Blair's political opponents understood that, as did most members of the Bigley family. For them to say that the government did all it could, in the moment of their deepest despair, showed great dignity and fortitude.
We could, however, have done without the prime minister's trembly-voiced message to camera. This was no time for soundbites and no time for Mr Blair to revisit the techniques he used after the death of Diana, Princess of Wales seven years ago. Coming after the mission to Africa, in which he showered the continent's leaders with platitudes, he would have done better to adopt a more restrained response.
Iraq is Mr Blair's albatross. However long he has left as prime minister, it will continue to haunt him in office and long afterwards. Last week's report by the Iraq Survey Group confirmed what the prime minister has only recently come to admit-that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction at the time we went to war to remove them. That the group also uncovered evidence that the Iraqi leader was working hard to get sanctions against him removed, with the aid of France and Russia, showed that opposition to the war was less high-minded than either Paris or Moscow would care to admit. There can be no doubt either that Saddam was itching to restart his weapons programme. That, however, is a far cry from the case for war made by Mr Blair, however right it may have been to back the United States and overthrow Saddam.
The only good that can now come from this terrible death of Mr Bigley is that the coalition powers redouble their efforts to bring peace and democracy to Iraq. The Bush administration is beginning to acknowledge some of the mistakes that were made in the aftermath of the war. It seems clear that there were far too few troops to ensure law and order. There are about 140,000 US troops now in Iraq; how much better if there had been half a million from the beginning. The failure to establish security for those who supported the invasion rapidly caused cynicism and anger. The failure to crack down on the radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr as soon as he began to forment unrest made him far more dangerous than he deserved to be. The failure to stop foreign terrorists entering Iraq and the clumsy de-Ba'athification have all contributed to the climate of fear and chaos in parts of the country today.
However, this is far from hopeless. Some real powers have been delegated to Iraqis, services are being restored and growing numbers are being trained as police and administrators. The aim of creating a democracy in the heart of the Middle East is just cause. To replace tyranny with freedom is something that the West should support. Mr Blair should use his influence in Washington to encourage greater commitment to Iraq. That should mean tens of thousands more troops ahead of January's elections. The terrorists will do all they can to destroy democratic elections and the West has to get it right in Iraq, however difficult and dangerous the task.

Posted by: paul at October 10, 2004 12:12 PM (VkEPu)

187 Message to DB

Spot on ! and thanks for the link...

As I said earlier the Muslim religion is intolerant and cruel and orders its followers to slay anyone who does not follow it.

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 12:15 PM (qlXPC)

188 Firstly I think showing any damn videos of hostages is playing straight into the hands of the kidnappers that is exactly what they wanted us to do.

Why are we surprised that our perverse media care only about audience and readership figures? If they had no audience to terrify then perhaps it would have to rethink its cruel plan.

Anyone wanting to view these sick displays can hunt them down on the web where you can find many more similar examples of macabre entertainment but then it would be your choice to view it where as at the moment these pleading videos are on national TV news. That was folly in the extreme.

However if any good has come out of this episode………… it has opened a lot of eyes to how depraved and backward these people are and how religion is responsible directly for hundreds and thousands of years of death and suffering and how that is continuing to be the case now……………

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 12:28 PM (qlXPC)

189 When muslims behave in this way, no matter where in the world they are it is helping the cause of the "BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY" who are not a racist party like our zionist/marxist leaders would like you to believe but rather they are a party that are standing up for the British way of life and want Britain to be for the British. They do not want a multi racial melting pot where Muslims are overtaking us in the breeding stakes and positive descrimination is rife. The alternative is a future civil war in Britain, because we all know what the Koran says about making your host nation an Islamic state when you number 10%.............VOTE BNP

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 10, 2004 12:35 PM (qlXPC)

190 This is the price we pay for the decision to leave several towns, like Fallujah, Ramadi and others in their hands. There was intelligence report that Bigley was beheaded in some specific town south of Baghdad. Then, why haven't we seen thousands of British and American commandos swarming on that town to catch the bastards and hang them from the nearest lampost for all the others to see?

Posted by: Steve Conrad at October 10, 2004 12:43 PM (jAHqU)

191 Laura is sick. She condones the killing of innocent children in Iraq...

"The innocent children you all are claiming in this forum that are being killed by our troops, if not killed, would surely grow up to hate us or kill us. We are only getting rid of the enemy. What's wrong with that? Kill or be killed, plain and simple."

I'm not even going to make any further comment on that statement, for fear of being accused of being anti-American.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 10, 2004 12:51 PM (GrBpx)

192 Equally unbelievable, I found the following amongst the EDITORIAL content:-

"The only reason Bigley lasted the 22 days in captivity that he did was because Zarqawi found the Brittish public so easily manipulated by his propaganda."

Perhaps someone would care to explain that utter load of bollocks?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 10, 2004 12:54 PM (GrBpx)

193 DB, I'm with you. This blog has become a Jerry Springer forum, we are all against each other. Opinions and comments are one thing, but when we start slamming each other, we start our own war.


I don't know if any of you lost anyone in the twin towers. I lost plenty, I am from NYC and lived there from the time I was born to around 24 yrs. of age. I consider it my hometown still.

I am not sick and I don't condone killing "innocent" victims. I only defend my country and my President. If that means entering countries who pose a threat, then so be it. Our soldiers don't intentionally invade these countries and behead and shoot at random. These terrorists do! The victims are picked at random, and have nothing to do with the war effort. I have 3 sons myself and are a stay at home mom, not some radical.

Continue on with the slamming, jokes at the expense of the hostages, etc. I'm done with this blog for good. I thought we could at least have discussions w/o being crucified for our opinions.

I guess not.

Posted by: Laura at October 10, 2004 01:03 PM (ptOpl)

194 "I am not sick and I don't condone killing "innocent" victims."

Yes you are. And yes you do. Your words are there for all to see.

Goodbye and good riddance.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 10, 2004 01:07 PM (GrBpx)

195 PS Hey Rusty, the Bigley video's all over the place...how come YOU don't have it yet?

So much for the latest.

Goodbye blog.

Posted by: Laura at October 10, 2004 01:13 PM (ptOpl)

196 I'm in the American Air Force and it's good to hear so many of my British ally's having the same ideas about these terrorist bastards that I do. Hopefully for both us American and our British brothers this war will be over soon, since we seem to be in it alone. God bless you guys. I was deployed to Saudi Arabia in '02 and got the chance to serve and live along side of some of your military, very good people. Although our accents are different, we are very much the same. Stay safe and keep up the support for both our militarys, its GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Rob

Posted by: Rob at October 10, 2004 01:13 PM (m1Yjf)

197 Good - Laura, you go off with DB and gagged by blair and exchange your hateful views together. You are as blinkered and as extremist and as ugly as the terrorists. "NUKE THEM" isn't really a discussion starter as far as I can tell - it's more a statement of the blind ignorance that's got the world in such a hell of a mess today. What really gets me is that you seem to be hiding behind the tragedies of 9/11 and Ken Bigley as excuses to peddle your hateful views. Have a look back at your posts Laura. You say that you don't condone killing "innocent" (your inverted commas) victims, yet earlier you seem to suggest that taking out Iraqi children is acceptable because they might grow up to attack Americans!! I don't think anyone has "crucified" you for stating your views (and I speak from the position of one threatened with decapitation by the lovely chris earlier in this blog for expressing mine!!) - they have questioned them and you have proceeded to throw more and more of your toys out of your pram. Laura - please please THINK about what you have said and stop spreading so much hatred. It won't help anyone. It never has.

Posted by: Cas at October 10, 2004 01:26 PM (7OeLi)

198 I have now seen the Bigley video and I must say that it is far different from the Armstrong and Hensley videos.

Firstly, they allowed Ken to say some words prior to his execution... it is obvious from his words that he felt he wasn't about to die within minutes - he seemed to think he still had maybe 24 hours left to live.

Secondly, the video is much less graphic than the other two. Bigley is actually turned around away from the camera so nothing is really visible. It seems to have been coarsely edited so the whole thing is over in a couple of seconds and nothing much is seen until the very end where they lift his head and then the customary "head placed on the back shot".

Overall, Ken had been treated far differently than the American hostages and I am still unsure as to why this should be.

I'm still really intrugued to know more about this escape attempt he made though. It's just a pity he couldn't pull it off.

Posted by: Red Devil at October 10, 2004 01:53 PM (KTmFE)

199 just thought i'd throw my 2 sense in here. i'm an american soldier, i've been to iraq, i know what's going on over there. so for all you dumbass people who think we are barbaric kiss my ass. we went there for one purpose to remove sadaam, we did that, why we're still there i don't know. all i do know is i'm going back again next month and i will do what i did last time i was there last year, i will kill any and all that i feel are a threat. if a kid has gun pointed at your head, do you see him as being a kid cause if you do your stupid. i've had this situation and i killed the bastard and i'll do it again... is that barbaric, no i don't think so. well just thought i'd throw my two sense in here. oh by the way i came back without a scratch the last time, if by chance they ever capture me, you won't see me on t.v being beheaded cause i'm going to go stupid on thier asses even if i'm blindfolded and they will end up shooting me first. so i'll die quicker, by choice not by torture. everyone have a nice die. as for all you iraqis and iraqi lover's see you soon................

Posted by: us soldier at October 10, 2004 02:16 PM (A48K/)

200 where do some of you come up with this stuff?? yes most of you are filled with hatred, yes muslim extremist are to..... but where in any of your religions or bibles does anyone ever say "nuke them all" to me that would solve hmmmmm 0% of the problem if you want peace first start with this website you are all writing not so peacefull things on and work your way out. its starts with you!!!!!! im not saying that will stop terrorists but at least it will stop painting such a horrible picture of the united states to people all around the world that have the internet and can get on this site. as for the terrorists and muslim extremists someone needs to sit all of the muslims in the world down and have them all come to an agreement on what there religion is actually saying only then can you judge muslims as a hole. so you will have 2 outcomes one........they will all agree that there religion is a peacefull one and that peace is worth standing up for against all other "rouge" muslims (terrorists) or two........... they will all decide that there religion is saying kill innocent people for watching movies, eating pigs, seeing any skin on a womens body in public and then only then can judge them as a hole and "nuke em" but until muslims come out as a hole on tv and condemn all muslims who kill in the name of there religion to me the killing, madness, beheadings wont stop. i think alot of people on this site (and in the world) blame bush, blair fucking gandi i dont know but those are only excuses look at where the problems, violence, terrorists are
coming from the middle east. and any of you that say thats not true where do you live a cabin in vietnam with no contact with the outside world. anyway so do i think being in iraq was/is a waist of time nooooo its one step closer to making the world safer. as fas as innocent victims.............THE COST OF WAR IS ALWAYS GREAT

Posted by: dread not at October 10, 2004 02:17 PM (Gpd2P)

201 Regarding Red Devil's report on the Bigley tape...I'm wondering why those monsters didn't tell Ken what was about to happen.Why force him to make another plea for his life when they knew they were about to slaughter him then and there? Seems odd to me. I suppose I would rather die unexpectantly than know what was going on from behind. I'm ashamed to say I do have a morbid compulsion to actively seek the stills for these videos (too nervous for the actual videos) despite the fact that they sicken me. But somehow just can't face the ones of Ken Bigley. Too long to get attached to the old guy through the media I suppose.

Posted by: Georgina at October 10, 2004 02:53 PM (C17ey)

202 us soldier - keep up the good work. Stay safe.

As to the rest of the muslim lovers and those that say America's presence in the first Gulf war and 90's led to all the attacks is blind. The Muslim religion has been killing outsiders and their own for centuries prior to the US ever being on the scene. It's in their blood. It's all they know. It's what they teach their children. They can't even allow women to vote, go to school or be seen. It's 2004.

All they are is the Amish with AK-47's.

Posted by: 666 at October 10, 2004 02:54 PM (EZxyK)

203 Welcome back Cas, and thanks for attempting to keep the sensible comments going. I am thought of as being anti-American for my views. Let me assure you that that is simply not the case. I find gagged by blair's stance equally abhorrent, along with his extremist views. Presumably s/he is British and I disassociate myself from them too.

To the 'us soldier' I have to say that I do sympathise with your views, but the situation that you describe of staring down the barrel of a gun held by a child is so different to the views of sick laura, who condones the slaughtering of innocent children simply because 'they are the enemy' and 'would probably have ended up hating us anyway' etc.

I fully support all of the coalition troops in Iraq who discharge their duties lawfully and to the best of their ability, under such extreme pressure. What a shame though that they are only there as a result of so many lies by their respective leaders (Governments).

Posted by: C00garUK at October 10, 2004 03:02 PM (GrBpx)

204 to 666

The Gulf War of 1991 was legal. It was undertaken in order to liberate Kuwait, which had been invaded by Saddam's Iraq. Maybe if more pressure had been put to bear to remove him at the time things today may have turned out different.

I am no muslim lover, but I know an illegal war when I see one. And the USA & Britain should be ashamed of themselves for proving to the world that they are no better than the enemy and fully deserve all the lost respect from the civilised communties.

Thank you for reminding me of the date, it must be fully 30-odd years since your country ended segregation of black people in their own country.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 10, 2004 03:09 PM (GrBpx)

205 COOqarUK, I do agree with your last comment. People like us can express our views and observations, however, what would you suggest to remedy these awful goings on in Iraq?

Posted by: paul at October 10, 2004 03:38 PM (X3sKe)

206 Hey Vamp, you cheapskate TESCO shopper, there is one thing you can thank TESCO for, and that's for letting knob's like you access to the internet...You, fuckin smack head, piece of shit....and ya ugly mates, TIGHT ASS...Go and rob some lead off TESCO'S roof, to pay for ya drugs..ya waster

Posted by: kev at October 10, 2004 04:35 PM (7O4Ru)

207 Well said kev.

Posted by: barry at October 10, 2004 04:39 PM (7O4Ru)

208 Vamp, barry. kev, tight ass and mean bastard - isn't it past your bedtimes now? Run along, stupid little boys.

Coogaruk - thanks - and likewise - this blog is severely lacking in thoughtful, aware contributions and yours have been made for very welcome reading amidst some of the most complete and utter tripe filled rubbish I have ever had the misfortune to read.

Posted by: Cas at October 10, 2004 04:56 PM (7OeLi)

209 Vamp, why are you so thick? no schooling? Bad childhood? Kev is right you probably are a smack head! What's it like jacken up and going shopping at TESCO'S, you tosser!

Posted by: jak at October 10, 2004 05:03 PM (Jd0k/)

210 nice 3 posts, stupid cunts.

(To the point)>>
So they demanded a number of terrorist criminals be released in return for the life of Mr Bigley? Blair should've sent a video reply stating that, if he wasn't released, we'd execute the very fuckers they're trying to get out. Kinda ruins their plan duzznit?
We may be a peace-loving, civilised free world over here, but we need to get evil on these lowdown, evil, twisted fucknuts!

Should go something like this:
"Oh.. you've sent me a video of an innocent man being beheaded? Lenny, I need a blowtorch, razorblades, acid, piano-wire, screws, drills, rough-as-fuck sandpaper, a chainsaw and a frying pan. Bring those fuckers from prison and lets mutilate the cunts!"
Maybe they'd think twice once they saw THAT video.
SickEvilFuckingCunts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. if anyone says 'that would make us as bad as them', FUCK OFF! Get EVIL on the fuckers!


Posted by: uberd0g at October 10, 2004 05:14 PM (sM5yG)

211 BUSH AND BLAIR MUST TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT IRAQ.

Day after day, week after week, the gazetteer of death is establishing itself in our consciousness. Places most people had never heard of 18 months ago-Fallujah, Najaf, Sadr City-have become as familiar as the Mekong Delta and Khe Sanh were a generation ago.
And just as they did in the early days of Vietnam, war leaders are singing the same siren song of assured victory. "Steady progress" is being made in Iraq, according to Bush. His acolyte in Baghdad, Iyad Allawi, goes further. "We are succeeding" he told Congress, a couple of weeks ago, adding that the terrorists were on the run.
No doubt we will get similarly upbeat view of the situation from Tony Blair. Poloticians have to be optimistic. But at some point optimism must give way to honesty.
By any realistic assessment, Iraq is worse off now than it has been at any time since the occupation began. We have got used to the daily bloodshed and terror, the car bombs, mortar attacks, kidnappings, beheadings, assassinations and sabotage.
In a way, the coalition spokesmen are right to play these events down. The insurgents are never going to succeed in a straightforward military contest with the coalition forces.
But that is not their aim. The purpose of the violence is to prevent the establishment of a degree of stability and relative prosperity in which the rule of law can take hold. On this front the enemies of progress are doing well.
Squaler and fear suffuse the lives of the poor majority in the centre and south. Greenish lakes of sewage lap the edges of the housing estates. A few weeks ago, the first cases of hepatitis, directly linked to the state of infrastructure, were reported in Baghdad.
There is no work except for jobs the occupiers are offering. Take one, and in the eyes of the insurgents you are a collaborator and a candidate for a bullet in the head. The middle classes, what remain of them, are no more secure.
The largesse donated by America and the world for reconstruction lies in bank vaults, mostly unspent. The insurgents' grip on the place means that almost all projects that would improve living conditions are on hold.
All this is obvious to Iraq's and to the dwindling band of independent observers in the country. But Mr Bush continues to tell a story of heartening and irrevocable progress, which some of his natural supporters are now starting to challenge.
There is a yawning discrepancy between what the President claims is being done and what the Pentagon sees on the ground. Mr Bush says there are 100,000 fully trained and equipped security forces currently at work. Defence department documents released a couple of weeks ago estimate that only 22,700 Iraqi personnel had recieved enough training to make them "minimally effective at their tasks".
Mr Bush has promised to lavish $9 billion over the next three months, a splurge that massively outstrips the projections of his own deputy Secretary of State, Richard Armitage, who is talking much more modestly of a spend of $300 million to $400 million a month.
As for the violence which poisons the country and feeds its sickness, the coalition persists in a dangerously oversimplified analysis which can hamper the development of a successful strategy for dealing with it.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is almost as potent as an American hate figure now as Osama bin Laden. He is blamed for almost every spectacular act of terrorism committed in Iraq. Focusing on Zarqawi-an outsider from Jordan and an al-Qaeda sympathiser-deflects attention from the Sunnis around Fallujah and the home-grown Shia extremists of the Mahdi army who have shown an impressive willingness to take the battle to the Americans against overwhelming odds. But talking up Zarqawi also has a downside that undermines America's claims to omnipotence. Why is he still at large when 140,000 men are chasing him, not forgetting the $25 million bounty on his head?
The US-British adventure in Iraq still has some way to go before it can be counted a failure. There are swaths of the country where order prevails and an overwhelming majority who yearn for the coalition to succeed.
That will not happen unless Mr Bush and Blair abandon their absurd over-optimism, confront the truth and admit that the situation is dire. They must accept without flinching or dissembling that the price of freedom in Iraq is much higher than supporters of the war, myself included, originally naively assumed.
The most precious gift we can give to Iraq is freedom; freedom in its solid manifestations, freedom from fear and want. That means security, jobs and services, just as it did at the beginning of the occupation.
Then the need was urgent. Now it's desperate. What Iraqi's yearn for most is not elections but security. The coalition troops in the country have proved unable to supply it. The Iraqi forces are indisciplined, untrained and, potentially unreliable.
Peering into the not-so-distant future, it is not impossible to imagine an Iraq that looks something like Lebanon in the worst years of civil war, a patchwork of fiefdoms persided over by warlords to whom the local population has turned in search of a degree of protection that the state was unable to provide.
It is a dreadful prospect. To prevent this happening, America has no choice but to commit mant more troops, enough to secure the infrastructure, guarantee the safety of the Iraqi police and army recruits and enable the revival of the reconstruction programme.
Public anxiety over Iraq is currently stuck on domestic political questions of trust and truthfulness. It is time the debate moved on. We should be harrying Mr Bush and Blair, not about what is going on in Iraq. It is Fallujah and Sadr City, not Washington and Westminster, that matters most now.

Posted by: paul at October 10, 2004 06:17 PM (Jd0k/)

212 Why is there no-one moderating this?

Vamp, Mean Bastard, 'Tight Ass' (yawn, how hilarious) et al are clearly the same couple of 13 year old boys tittering away on their parents computer and engaging in adolescent mutual masturbation.

I know you're only young but if you're going to be offensive at least try and be slightly funny. Watch some Bill Hicks, you might learn something.

Posted by: oneandonlypostforthegayboys at October 10, 2004 06:24 PM (C17ey)

213 this is one of the main reasons i would like to join the British Army, is to wipe out these sick individuals who get pleasure from such a grousome act. my thoughts go to the family of Mr bigley who have had to put up with this the past weeks.
Soulsearcher

Posted by: Soulsearcher at October 10, 2004 06:41 PM (S0eUM)

214 KEN YOU ARE THE MOST BRAVEST PERSON ON THIS PLANET, YOUR DEATH REVEALED THE DOGS OF SATAN AND WHO THEY ARE,MY DEEPEST THOUGHT TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY,AND A MESSAGE TO THE DOGS DO YOU REALY THINK WE DONT KNOW WHO YOU ARE? YOU FOOL DOGS HOW GUTLESS TO HIDE BEHIND A MASK,YOU ALSO STOLE ANY INTEGRITY FROM YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR GOD, YOU ONLY WORSHIP EVIL AND HATRED, MINDLESS DOGS YOU WILL BE DESTROYED OUR PEOPLE OUR GOVERNMENTS OUR UNITED COUNTRIES, AND OUR GOD SLEEP LIGHT LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER WE ARE WATCHING YOU

Posted by: STEVE DONALD at October 10, 2004 09:11 PM (5E6Qg)

215 I am very very very sad

I am crying every night thinking what happened to this innocent man

How could this happen ? Why

I am an Indian and all my Indian friends are very very very sad

I want the world to speakout against terrorisim and against Evil Men who do these unspeakable crime

I decided to do fasting every Thursdays till I die remembering the death of this innocent man

I will ask My Lord Jesus to be with his wife and family on my prayers
I am hurt, very much hurt by this

I beg the world to speak out against these terrorists

I also beg Muslims around the world to speakout loudly against these eveil inhuman Terrorists
I respect muslims . They are good people
It is sad These terrorists are harming the religion and Muslim community






Posted by: Shan at October 10, 2004 09:18 PM (5BFgW)

216 Anyone who watches these videos or looks at pictures of the videos is supporting terrorism.
Stupid asses, all of you. Go rent Friday the 13th...and allow these victims and their families a shread of dignity. The world has gone to shit...

Posted by: tannymac at October 10, 2004 11:02 PM (/JWFQ)

217 For those of you who are rightly angered by the images above be assured specialist units of the US, UK and others are on their trail. Task Force 121 and 626 together with RWT's will search them out and deal with them in the way we all wish we could. I would be very surprised if they are still alive this time next year.

If you want to get your own back use none violence I suggest that you refrain from purchasing any items made in or sold by any molsem or moslem country. This will in part starve them of funds to supply these and other terror groups. Be proactive, but be positive there are otherways and other means than violence to curtail these inhuman beings.

Posted by: chimera at October 10, 2004 11:20 PM (JfgpT)

218 For those of you who are rightly angered by the images above be assured specialist units of the US, UK and others are on their trail. Task Force 121 and 626 together with RWT's will search them out and deal with them in the way we all wish we could. I would be very surprised if they are still alive this time next year.

If you want to get your own back use none violence I suggest that you refrain from purchasing any items made in or sold by any mulsim or muslim country. This will in part starve them of funds to supply these and other terror groups. Be proactive, but be positive there are otherways and other means than violence to curtail these inhuman beings.

Posted by: chimera at October 10, 2004 11:23 PM (JfgpT)

219 COOgarUK, who are you to talk about blacks and segregation in America when the UK discrminated against and segregated blacks and the Irish in in Britain and subjugated the non-white world. As such, you have no reason to be talk about the USA(which as a colony inherited slavery from you.)

Posted by: jody at October 11, 2004 02:33 AM (4b7/x)

220 It's a shame everyone on here has to get into some big political argument when the purpose was to comment on Ken Bigley. RIP Mr. Bigley

Posted by: bill at October 11, 2004 03:03 AM (4b7/x)

221 Ken Bigley was a good man. I am reviled at his horrible death. My sympathy to his family.

Posted by: sara at October 11, 2004 03:14 AM (4b7/x)

222 These guys are Wahaabi Muslims and take the words in the qu'ran to mean what they say in a literal sense, as the written word is meant to be.

Other more moderate muslims overlay a mystical or poetic type of translation to the literal wording in the qu'ran because they cannot believe what they see written.

These people use the media to further their goals. It will be them using the media in this manner that will be the opening of peoples eyes to what the qu'ran preaches.

The media can build one up, chew on them for a bit and then spit them out. The Wahaabi are no different. They are no different because they are trying to manipulate the media and you know ~ you can't.

The massive cross section of posts in this thread alone show that you can't kid all of the people, all of the time.

The media is the all seeing, all knowing, omnipitent overseer of all that moves. Big papers and small blogs, word of mouth is unstoppable.

The reckoning will come and it will be at the behest of the media, the true speakers corner for the people.

Just take another look in the thread and will find proof that the Wahaabi way is just unnaceptable.

Biased? Me? Show me a better way to live and i'm all ears. The Wahaabi way with imposed Sharia law is unacceptable and for that, the Wahaabi are doomed to failure.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 11, 2004 03:28 AM (IJhRn)

223 i watched one of the first beheadings on the internet and wish i never there is no way i would even be able to look at ken bigleys. words cant decribe how i feel about these sick bastards.

bullshit to how muslims are kind people, my neighbours are muslim, im white christian and they look at me like im not normal and never speak to me they have no respect for anybody and are a bunch of idiots. they're sick sick people!

Posted by: Jo at October 11, 2004 03:31 AM (WXeCk)

224 Mohomed sucks cocks in hell

Posted by: Dave at October 11, 2004 05:06 AM (jaBGJ)

225 After reading all these posted msg, i just can help but put something down.
All these shout about "war for oil" "bush and bush's allies" etc is in my view shying away from the real thing.Take a look at the state of the world today and tell me you disagree that RELIGION AND POLITICS ARE NOT THE ROOTS OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS. (also "majority" of the minor issues). Im from nigeria and ive had first hand experience seeing the Moslem slaugtering their fellow human considered as an "infidel"!....and for those of you who might not know, the quran actually supports/instructs the kiling of non belivers (yeah that's rite)...as they (the moslem) would be rewarded with virgins in heaven/paradise (pls someone tell me wat planet this ppl live on). i know all these cuz i was one a moslem (now im an atheist).Islam in my view is a religion of the dark ages, the earlier people can get away from it the better. My point is,religion sucks and politics even sucks more, they are both responsible for the state of the world today, a classic example is the middle east, and now iraq. Maybe we shud all embrace science as an alternative instead.....maybe
P.s pardom me for any gramattical error, english language aint exactly my mother's tongue

Posted by: Hellrazor at October 11, 2004 06:16 AM (9GrD2)

226 There is nothing wrong in being angry concerning the current events. The question is not who started it, or what religion is responsible. These beheadings of innocent civilians are carried out by evil men. Our united anger should be directed at them. There are a lot of people who have killed because they claim "God told me to do it"... but we don't hate God do we? People just try to lay blame on anything except themselves.... every being on the planet knows the difference between right and wrong, and we have free will and choice to exercise this. I think religion is great and I respect all faiths. But with everything, like politics, police forces, armed forces, senior management, The clergy, child carers, you will always find abusers of the system, who will try to take advantage of it for their own personal aims. These terrorist like the notiority that they have, and do not want the fighting to end. They make demands that they know can not be met, and select soft targets for their violence. They just want a fight and have created a reason that the West is a evil beast that they must destroy wherever it is and at whatever cost. Unfortunately, people are being brainwashed into joining there fanaticism, supporting a false cause. I think that the specialist armed forces need to go into these terrorist murder towns and hit them hard. With the training, expertise and technology I wonder why they have not deployed this option.

Posted by: Harley at October 11, 2004 06:25 AM (8sUKp)

227 The complete disregard for life is incomprehensible to me, the people who carry out these atrocities have displayed the lowest form of blasphemy and hypocrisy and shame the very religion they purport to follow.

I have always understood that the basic principles of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are centred around respect, compassion and goodwill. Since all three Jews, Christians and Muslims purport to worship God and follow his ten commandments as laid down in the old testament the scriptures of Judaism, Christians centre many of their beliefs around the teachings in the New Testament and Muslims the Quaran (or Koran) The one thing all religions have in common is that the self appointed or otherwise, religious leaders use their power primarily to control and manipulate, wether for their own benefit or to impose their beliefs on others.

I am not a religious person, however I know that I live my life with greater respect, tolerance and compassion towards others than any so called religious person I have ever met. My own morals and principles are those which every human being on this planet is born with, prior to their indoctrination in the name of religion. I have no desire to kill another person whatever their creed, colour or race, or take what is not mine and When I have I give freely.

Whilst the fanatical hypocrites of this world are revered by the stupid people who are unable to distinguish right from wrong themselves and are indoctrinated into the religion of their forebears the possibility of peace on earth and goodwill to all men doesn't and will never exist.

To slay Ken Bigley at all, let alone in such a barbaric evil manner is further proof that God as the compassionate and forgiving all seeing, all powerful being does not exist. Even as I child I could never accept or understand the teachings of the mindless fools who expected anyone to believe that the suffering of mankind is the will of God, any entity with a shred of human decency would be so outraged and disturbed by the unbelievable horrors carried out in it's name ever since humans first walked on this earth, would surely intervene and prevent them.

Me and millions of others in this world have heard enough of the garbage spouted by those who's sole aim in life is to advance their status so they will be first in the queue to their "Heaven".

Unfortunately for all of the western hostages there was never any hope of freedom because their captors have something in common with most of the warmongers who have ever existed, religion, the most prolific excuse used to justify the murder of the innocents since time began. All those who choose to believe the teachings of their religion over the principles of right and wrong no longer have a mind of their own with which to grasp the reality of their actions.

Were the principles of most of the worlds religions followed as they were originally conceived they would be saving the world instead of dividing it, they have been so unscrupulously misinterpreted and abused by the countless evil scum who now use them for their own ends.

It's only when intelligent people realise that their prayers have never been and never will be answered that religion will dissapear from civilised society, then true peace on earth and goodwill to all men may be a reality. "God" For the love of mankind...

Posted by: David at October 11, 2004 06:31 AM (WlBZW)

228 I respect every comment on this string. Everyone is entitled to speak freely about how they feel about this disgusting act of cowardry that was forced upon poor Ken - A true englishman. However I must draw the line to those who bad mouth Ken, now he has passed on. Yes Ken was trying to earn some money - the man was about to retire and settle down - but from what I can gather ken had worked in the the middle east for years and loved that part of the world - I'm sure his main perogitive was too help rebuild Iraq using he skills he had gained throughout his life as an engineer.

I can understand why some of you guys from the US feel that it is the muslim religion that is to blame, it was Islamic Extremists that changed the american way of life.....for ever, however I really must stress that this is a small minority of extremists hiding behind the banner of "Islam".

I wonder how many of you who have posted comments full of hatered actually live, mix or have friends who are muslim. I live in the most multicutlural city in the UK, and my street is predominently Arab/Pakistani, most of them are Muslim. My neighbours are in despair at what has happened to Ken, they tell me about what the Kauran teaches, and there interpretation of it is in no way the same as Tawid and Jihad's. These people are friendly generous people, who even though they don't have much money, will offer food to you if you see them in the street. I'm not doubting that there are some "bad eggs" but I'll tell you what - there are more white and black "bad eggs" than there are arab/asian round here.

Believe me, in my area of the UK, everyone that I know and I mean everyone no matter what race/colour or creed is disgusted and distured by what is has gone on, and only wants these murders brought to justice. And they will be.

peace out, and please please please remember that we should not persicute/alienate muslims and not blame their faith for the acts of these barbarians.

Posted by: bob backlen at October 11, 2004 06:41 AM (UqPh7)

229 Seconded to almost everything what David said 2 posts ago.

The o'omnipitent one is the media.

Peace.

Posted by: qpr jon at October 11, 2004 07:01 AM (IJhRn)

230 LEST WE FORGET THOSE WHO DIED FOR THEIR COUNTRY.

When Corporal Marc Taylor from Ellesmere Port was killed in action in Iraq, the civic leaders of Liverpool did not mark his tragic passing with a day of mourning, a silence and the lowering of the Union flag. So far as I am aware, no such honours have been paid to any military personnel killed in Iraq.
Ken Bigley will surely occupy the news for some days to come, but where is the continuing coverage of the 68 serving officers and men from the Army, Navy, Royal Marines and Air Force who have, to date, lost their lives?
Mr Bigley's murder is a tragedy, but one that should be limited to his family and friends. If any local or national outpouring of grief is warranted, it should, at least, include those brave men who went to their deaths serving their country.

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 07:14 AM (tx2el)

231 I just wonder if there is any peace around the corner, which we can look forward to. It is so horrible, depressing and disgusting. I just pray to God that things should change soon, before a worldwide anarchy sets in.
My prayers to the Bigley family.

Posted by: John at October 11, 2004 07:30 AM (V9Ohd)

232 WHERE THE FUK IS LORD LUCAN I WANNA KNOW ????

Posted by: MRS LUCAN at October 11, 2004 07:38 AM (mgGzc)

233 TERRORISM LOSES THE VOTE.

There was a nasty moment six months ago, after the Spanish electorate abruptly turned the government of Jose Maria Aznar out of office, when it looked as if al-Qaeda was edept not only at murder and carnage, but at manipulating democracy, too. Yesterday, that perception was handsomely rebutted, in both Australia and Afghanistan.
If the pre-election opinion polls in Australia were anything to go by, prime minister John Howard was going to be punished by the electorate for his support of Mr Bush in Iraq. But when it actually came to voting, Australians preferred Mr Howard's sober and conservative policies to the opportunist and juvenile rhetoric of his opponent, Mark Latham. Despite the Iraq Survey Group confirming that there were no weapons of mass destruction just before voting began, and Mr Latham's impromptu promise to bring Australian troops home by Christmas, the most important issue was the economy. Here, Mr Howard's record is exemplary. Australia has had a decade of growth, intrest rates are low and the stock market keeps hitting record highs.
Mr Howard is an Anglophile, a free-marketeer and a monarchist. Afghanistan is, in many ways, more gratifying. Yesterday, the largest group of international observers declared the Afghan poll was mostly fair. Granted, the 15 candidates challenging Hamid Karzai are disputing the result and claiming a type of ink used in the process could easily be rubbed off. But when you consider that Afghanistan has never had an election on this scale before; that the average life expectancy in that benighted country is just 42 and that only 36 per cent of adults can read; and when you also take into account that in the past 30 years it has been invaded twice, suffered a coup, a civil war and the oppression of the Taliban, this weekend's election is progress indeed. About eight million Afghans voted for the first time, including many women who have never been allowed to exercise much freedom at all, let alone the right to choose how they are governed.
The elections in Australia and Afghanistan follow a similar result to Indonesia's, the world's most populous Muslim country. Last week, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was elected as president after promising a clamp-down on extremists. The war on terror is a hard grind, which can test a nation and its leaders. But the terrorists are losing at the ballot box. That is cause for optimism for both Mr Bush and Tony Blair.

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 07:48 AM (tx2el)

234 Here in England, we are forced to live side by side with Muslims & have learnt to live with them. It's a pity these people don't want to learn how to live with us.
I went on the Stop the War march, have been veheomently against the war but there are certain limits to what we as British people can put up with. I say don't send more troops. We've got enough there. Lets just let them do their jobs & get these hostage takers. I say let them live (through gritted teeth & clenched fists) & keep them inprisoned in little cells with a 24 hour streaming web cam so they can endure a longer embarrassment than they have subjected to Kenneth, Eugene & Jack.
But us white Christians have to shoulder some of the blame ourselves. When we have sites like Ogrish & Straightbanana (just to mention a few) showing these videos for no other reason than to revel in the pain, suffering & death of these men. We should feel ashamed of ourselves as as someone has already said, we are playing right into their hands putting these videos up & promoting the viewing of the next one.
I say turn our backs on these sick sites although I have to congratulate the owner of this site as it is made clear that the owner finds these videos sickening & abhorent.

Posted by: Michael at October 11, 2004 07:55 AM (dT08e)

235 War is a very unfortunate event...does not matter who the parties are, the only people really getting hurt are the innocents. With that said, was 9/11 an act of war? granted, it was Osama and his cronies that were responsible for it, but Saddam was the next best thing. If the U.S. did not retaliate after 9/11, even though towards the wrong enemy, i'm sure there would have been many more 9/11's. I say since we're already in Iraq, lets hurry up and finish the job, whatever it may be. If it's for the oil, lets hurry up and take it and get the hell out of dodge. that's why we're over there right? in all honesty, im getting fed up with paying $2 a gallon. Take the oil, get out of iraq, and fuck the militants. one last thing, there shouldn't be any civilian contractors in iraq now anyways. the situation is still so unstable. What is their motivation for being over there? is it to get rich? i'm sure there are individuals there to really help people, but my faith in human nature leads me to seriously doubt that.

Posted by: nasty at October 11, 2004 08:11 AM (yEyyj)

236 How come the only thing this world has know since George Bush became president is Death and Destruction?

Seems a little odd that Islamic extremists picked on him?

Doesn't anyone think that maybe, just maybe he's making matters worse. His war on terror is understandable I suppose but take a step back and look at it.

Since the War on Terror started, all we've ever known is sadness, death, hatred, racism, divided societies and bloodshed.

George W Bush will tell you that’s the exact reason why we must carry on and fight the aggressors.

Who exactly are the aggressors though? Is it them, or is it really us, the west?

We’re heading down a very dangerous road indeed. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Abu Musab al-Zarqawi becomes another Osama Bin Laden. Another ‘Most Wanted’ who never gets caught.

My thoughts are with Ken Bigleys family, obviously. My thoughts are also with our children as well though. I wonder what kind of world we’re creating for them.

Posted by: Steve at October 11, 2004 08:33 AM (iAufe)

237 The thing with Bush is that September the 11th distracted the American people from seeing what an ejit the man is. He really is an idiot. If the Republican party in America had someone else at the helm, maybe the rest of the world (and yes that includes some of us evil, Europeans) might actually support America.

Posted by: Michael at October 11, 2004 09:10 AM (dT08e)

238 And I would guess that Abu Musab al-Zaqawi is already a reverential figure over there & more frightening, over here to some....

Posted by: Michael at October 11, 2004 09:12 AM (dT08e)

239 my deepest sympathy with the family of ken bigley.... as a bristish muslim i must express the reactions of these so called terrrorists have shocked not only non-muslims but fellow muslims all over the world.
if your country was being bombed by outsiders because of motives other than helping people of that country, you too would endavour pain and hatred towards the invaders.
surely these ppl have taken an evil stance towards innocent ppl, but islam and muslims do not condone such actions, it was cowardly, sickening and an insult to islam.
let me correct those who have expressed hatred towards a religion that is of peace, read the al-quran and then express your feelings.
i hope that we will find peace one day, and that terrorism will be extinct.... i hope ken bigley has a safe place in jaanat (heaven), but we need to address why all this is happening, and power is a corrupting factor, that lives in not only non muslims but muslims too.
which country next? south korea?? will that mean that buddhists will be terrorists and then we will have another 9/11??? why cant we live in peace? if it aint a stabbing, then a shooting, or this, everyone has anger and frustration, but all religions state one thing, PEACE... so follow ur religions and pray that we can live in peace.

Posted by: rafiquddin ali at October 11, 2004 09:46 AM (x/Q90)

240 WHAT KIND OF WICKED GOD WANTS HIS FOLLOWERS TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE SO CRUELLY? IT MUST REALLY BE A WICKED GOD THEY ARE WORSHIPPING.

Posted by: 22222222 bad! at October 11, 2004 11:19 AM (yvgGm)

241 Please THINK before posting anything people!!! Everytime you feel like mentioning some event as the reason for your opinions, ask yourselves WHY has this event ever happened in the first place and list out all the possibilities. Look them up! Go to the library, read a book, check out the net for insight and information (not just from forums like these where 95% of the comments come straight from the heart - without a minimum of reaserch done - and not from the mind).

For every possibility you've come up with which is a plausible cause for the event you mention, go back even further! Why has THESE events occured and so on and so forth.

Why has the US invaded Iraq? Most of you will come up with different events that lead up to this? Why would someone want to invade a coutry on the basis of getting rid of a threatening individual, when other coutries also have threatening leaders! Could there be something else?

Why are terrorist beheading innocent people? Again, try to list out, why would anyone in their right mind want to do this? Doesn't it sound like desperate measures to achieve something? Think it over, discuss...

Try to see the broader picture here. A single event does not suffice for one person to blurt out opinions, especially when they are obviously so shallow.

The only way this world will acheive any sort of peace is by understanding and knowledge... not by blind, impulsive reactions...

I blame poor education and poor quality entertainment for having 90 percent of the globe react the way it does. Read a book, forge opinions, discuss, defend your opinions, give and take. Nothing wrong with changing your opinions in a progressive way...

Posted by: Matt at October 11, 2004 11:20 AM (Cgw8p)

242 IT'S ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST, STUPID.
Neither Bush nor Kerry will stand up to Israel, so the terror will go on.

They didn't mention Ken Bigley, of course. He-like his two American companions-was gone, dead, brutally murdered and therefore unavailable to participate in Mr Bush's long but resolute struggle or Mr Kerry's more hopeful tommorow. Nor, for that matter, did they mention Ariel Sharon or the debris of Gaza or Saudi Arabia's fragile autocracy or Egypt's shattered tourist industry. To be honest, they didn't mention much at all.
Is that it, then? Has St Louis put a lid on foreign debate so far as this US election goes? Is the choice for America, and therfore Britain, just more of the same-or "smart" plans from a supposedly smart man who seems to believe that one summit will leave the world saluting him? I'm all right Jacques?
Once you put aside the buzz from the first joust in Florida-why did that funny little commander-in-chief keep scowling and twitching like Queeg doing his full Caine Mutiny routine?-then round two was a bit of a drag. Bush reprised the theme from his best loved album of lying ads.
(Flop flip, I was taken a dip!) John Kerry reiterated his handy conviction that angst over mangled voting and phrase-making eas better than blundering into war. Neither of them knew quite what to say to a puzzled lady whose travelling friends had found America bottom of their holiday hit parade.
Kerry thought that was Bush's fault. Bush said he did what he thought was right and didn't much care if "these people", otherwise referred to as "these Europeans", got the hump. And anyway, Tony Blair was with him. Take one Blair, one Berlusconi, plus a pinch of Poland and Oz, and you had the wonder of coalition, ridding the globe of a "unique threat".
But, as he strutted and harangued and tried to look feistier than he managed in that first scowlathon, there was no obvious difficulty. Mr Bush has no Einstein pretensions. Launch him into a dissertation on, say, stem cell research and it's even money whether he will make it out alive. John Kerry ought to be much better than that. Yet, curiously, he isn't.
Kerry pronounces names and places rather more accurately than the world's most powerful flubber. He's been to Kyoto and sat in the salons of Europe. He eats gravitas with muesli for breakfast. He should know his stuff. But if he does, he's not telling.
Maybe, in the pantheon of things, that won't matter too much because it will never become relevant. Maybe the president is going to win this contest willy-nilly. But it's closer by far than it was. Events, dear boy, continue to undermine White House certainties. There is too much bleating about the Bush and a clear possibility that President Kerry(like Spain's Zapatero) could actually be stuck with running a country. What then?
His fabled summit to persuade France, Germany and the rest to put in troops so America's boys can head back to Fort Bragg won't work just because Kerry isn't Bush. The bill, the danger and the manifest unpopularity of joining a queue winding into the distance without any exit signs are constants whoever sits in the Oval Office.
Worse, to be really credible, his new, expanded coalition will need many Muslim troops on the ground. This (as the carnage in Egypt shows) is their war too.
Al-Qaida is the peril within, as Saddam himself realised. But how do you even begin to add that dimension to your alliance when, time and again, Israel kicks away its foundations? Forget the road map; forget any hope of a Palestinian state. Obfuscation is the name of Sharon's game, according to his gabbiest senior adviser, and Washington is trailing compliantly along behind. I won't deal with Arafat, Bush says proudly; but he won't deal with anybody else either.
Republican policy is an empty vessel drifting off Tel Aviv, and the Democratic alternative has just as little stored in its hold.
Yet Kerry must know that the Arab world (and much of Europe) won't respond to his Iraq distress calls unless there's a decisive return to the road-map action. He must know that evan Tony Blair and Bush are at loggerheads over Israel. He must realise that a fresh start here is the key to a fresh start in Baghdad. But he didn't mention it. Nor, alas, did any of those long, fruitful weeks at foreign policy seminars yeild the most minimal shift in perception.
It is Bush who (quite rightly) seeks to set North Korea in its context, and Kerry who cranks up the threat. It is Bush who, bruised by Iraq, turns more warily and multilaterally toeards Tehran, and Kerry who unleashes the rockets of empty rhetoric.
When Bush promises to keep America safe, Kerry pledges to make it even safer. When Bush promises more spending on homeland security, Kerry trumps it. When Bush rattles on about the war on terrorism and the forces of evil who mastermind it, Kerry betrays not a murmer of nuance.
Why did Saddam want nuclear weapons? Because the real threats in his area-Israel, Pakistan, India, China and Russia-have them. Because Iran, just next door, is getting them. Why didn't Saddam tell the UN inspectors he was flat out of WMDs and open his doors wide? Because he didn't want Tehran to know.
The complications here stretch far beyond America versus Osama and friends. The challenges and the answers we will have to find are inevitably complex and thoughtful, not tough; subtle, not no-brain certain. But did the voters of middle America get a hint of that when they needed it? Meet me in St Louis, Phooey!

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 11:28 AM (XeXaS)

243 OH! GOD, PLEASE BRING THIS WORLD TO AN END, VIOLENCE IS INCREASING EVERYDAY AND THERE SEEMS TO BE NO SOLUTION. DENY ALL THE MUSLIMS BECAUSE THEY HAVE MURDERED SO CRUELLY IN YOUR NAME AND SEND THEM TO HELLLLLLL FOREVER!!!!!!!

Posted by: callinonGod at October 11, 2004 11:33 AM (yvgGm)

244 I am SO SICK of religion. Sick of hearing about it. Sick of the wars. Sick of people trying to justify a book that preaches killing all non-believers. It would be laughable if it wasn't the root of so much trouble. Pathetic, medieval crap. No more believable than an American soap opera.

People, THERE IS NO GOD. Get used to it.

I try to respect 'believers' but I'm afraid it gets harder every day. I stopped believing in The Almighty round about the age of, oh, six or seven (same time as I stopped believing in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy).

About time people faced reality and stopped kidding themselves that there is ANYTHING whatsoever after this life. There is not.
Injustice is not found after death. That's what makes Mr Bigley's death doubly tragic...his murderers will never go to hell, just as poor Bigley will never go to heaven.

My suggestion to Muslims, Christians, anyone who believes in the ancient myths, is to go and read a few science books. That's right. SCIENCE. That little concept that explains every single thing on this planet and can be PROVED time and time again. It proves where you came from (sperm and egg). It proves where you are going (rotting back into the earth). Not a comforting thought but the truth never is.

Sorry, but that's the way it is. Deal with it and bloody grow up.

Posted by: truthhurts at October 11, 2004 12:01 PM (C17ey)

245 Chris, your most definatley RIGHT!! THe whole reason why these people are killing us is for thier religion! For those of u who reject this stance, u obviously havent looked into the REAL muslim religion. Im not rascist, in any way shape or form, this is just FACT. Not hate to anyone here, just remeber to know what ur talkin about before u say something.

PEACE

Posted by: oPtiMus at October 11, 2004 12:53 PM (1hI+R)

246 How sick those bastards are. To anyone who reads my post, please understand I am not racist and not anti-muslim. I am not a church attending christian and I have friends who are british asians, jews, negro of no faith etc

But what the hell can any living person say to justify the murder of an old man? AND SHUT UP anyone who says it's Blair's fault! We might all agree that the war was a mess but such actions of putting an innocent man to death on video only makes me hate them with a passion so strong I cannot and will not feel sympathy for their cause.

Everyone remember this: Real muslims do not kill innocent people. Islam is clear about this. Those men, misguided bastards, will rot inside a corps' shell and their spirits will go to hell.

Pray for the poor relatives and pray for the good Iraqi people who will one day see freedom, justice, the rule of law... their laws, written and decided by their people through their own democracy.

The world must stand up and unite behind this. Many more will die on the way, but the greater good will win and terror will be defeated. It ALWAYS is - Get your history books out, it ALWAYS is.

God bless Ken Bigly and his family.

Posted by: Hanco at October 11, 2004 12:54 PM (mIZjU)

247 Hola, I agree when you talk about 'slavery'. However, you go on to express views about "It's time for pay-back, you ain't seen nothing yet".
Yet in the same paragraph, you seem to have contradicted yourself, in the fact you say, "African's, are the only truly peace-loving, harmless and innocent people, in the world". I seem a little confused. Can you please give me an explanation?

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 12:57 PM (tC+PY)

248 You're completely right Hola.

I'm off to Nigeria now for some peace and quiet.

Posted by: truthhurts at October 11, 2004 01:04 PM (C17ey)

249 A more brutal and pointless act than Ken Bigley's murder is hard to imagine. It feels as though humanity is bumping along on the bottom of its springs-no cushion of mercy or compassion left. We must find some. Let us all, individually, resolve to treat our fellows better.

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 01:05 PM (tC+PY)

250 This video is strange for some reasons :
-when (zarqawi?) pull the knife there is a "cut"
-the cameraman have no time or they didnt want him to on purpose, film the beheading from close range
-there is a blur effect at a point of the video and finally but not least we clearly see a bullet hole in the forehead of bigley's head when its on the body.

This reminds me how long this video has taken to be put on the website for download this would explain they worked on the video.. The blur intrigues me so much im really too curious it gives me much pain to not know the truth, especially in the case of nick berg.

Posted by: baf at October 11, 2004 01:11 PM (eyWhH)

251 truthhurts, I would presume that you support African's in what they do to their own peoples; civil wars; buying weapons instead of feeding their own people? As paul said in his last comment lets "resolve to treat our fellows better". I agree.

God bless Kenneth Bigley.

Posted by: kev at October 11, 2004 01:16 PM (tC+PY)

252 everyone who has posted a comment on this site is right to do so, and they all have their own views on the subject in hand, yet i am SEVERLY PISSED OFF with those fuk heads, who can justify a murder? furthermore who can justify a beheading? it is sick, i think more people are pissed off becayse of they way he died not that he died. yet still, my thoughts are with the bigley family at this terrible terrible time. lets go and kill those islamic fuk heads! but not quickly, ohhh noo!!!!! lets fuk em around first, piss em off real bad n then torture em real good maybe by holdin their heads underwater for 20,30,40,50, seconds n then pullin em out n kuttin off the end of their cock n feedin em to each other, im only 15 n i bet u wonder where all this anger comes from, well it comes from those fuckin islamic people who think it is rite to kill innocent people. fuk u. fuk islam, and fuk allah, fuk iraq jus nick their oil and nuke the fukin place. nuke evry single fuckin country that isnt considered as normal as the brits and americans are!

Posted by: fuked off at October 11, 2004 01:27 PM (V4IWL)

253 If ther Americans, British, Israelis didnt go to these countries, Afghanistan, Palestine, Vietnam, Iraq etc... and terrorize these peoples then the Insurgents wouldnt have a cause, or support. Were also still waiting to hear about the link between 9/11 & Iraq. 2 Wrongs dont make a Right but if you are going to go terrorize other people in their own homes, expect a fight in return.

Posted by: Crowe_32CSM at October 11, 2004 01:34 PM (PXGmt)

254 May his soul rest in peace for ever and may he reach Heavan

Posted by: God at October 11, 2004 01:35 PM (9V/Uc)

255 FUK IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AND ALL THE OTHER FUKIN MUSLIM COUNTRIES

Posted by: Chris at October 11, 2004 01:37 PM (9V/Uc)

256 I have a simple question to ask.
If this country was invaded by someone determined to over throw our government
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
I would bet that you would react the same way the Iraqi people have.

You have to remember something, the Iraqi people heard the same thing we did, that Bush was invading to look for WMD. Then he suddenly switches and says that we are there to free them, but we have been running around shooting people up, killing innocent people. They have seen us first and foremost as invaders to their country. They reacted as most people in a country being overun would react. Our creditability is shot as far as the people of Iraq are concerned. Plus the Bush administration has come out with yet another reason for going into Iraq. How many more reasons is he going to come up with.

You need to see what is happening thru their eyes. They are simple people who are seeing their children killed, their homes and places of business destroyed. They can not even get together as a group to celebrate a wedding without someone dropping bombs on them, accusing them of being terrorists. That little incident got swept under the rug, but not soon enough for videos of the wedding and the bombing of it to come forth. They don't see this as something we are doing for their own good, they see death and destruction, at our hands. They see us as EVIL.

Bush made a huge mistake, and there is no going back, and no plan in place that will get us out gracefully. Like Vietnam, we have lost this one. I just pray that someone realizes it and ends it rather than to continue to drag it on, like Vietnam.

Posted by: Leigh at October 11, 2004 01:38 PM (f8BDX)

257 Brave ones, you are. With your faces hidden
as you slaughter old men, hands bound,
held down by your useless air wasting comrades.
You are representing your religion well, courageous fighters!!

Present yourselves to receive the martyrdom you have earned, brave warriors!

Bigley's video had two camera angles. And the fade from camera angle 2 (to the right of the "main") was done DURING the taping. They had editing capabilities on site. Where they murdered him. Someone was twirling the knobs.

Posted by: martyr facilitator at October 11, 2004 01:50 PM (TG49H)

258 I am NOT ashamed of what I believe in or what I Support.... So I am postin this email that I sent to one of the Bloggers and her reply to me....

Hi Andrea!

Wow, you flatter me! Too bad you can't comment on the blog and tell that stupid CoogUK or whatever the hell his name is, and Cas, as well, that what we are doing in Iraq is right. They are both from the UK and are bleeding heart liberals. Scroll up to where he blasts me for supporting our troops there and saying I am sick b/c it's too bad innocent kids are getting killed there.

"US soldier" posted that when you are looking down at the barrel of a gun held by a child, you do not think that this is a child, you defend yourself, or something to that effect. CoogUK actually sided with the guy, oh, so under those circumstances it is ok to murder a child? He thinks I am for the raping and pillaging of innocent victims...I am NOT. I just meant that I supported our troops going there, and if it meant innocent civilians would be caught up in the crossfire while snuffing out the enemy, then so be it!

What are we supposed to do to stop terrorism? Sit back and debate on the stupid blog while they continue to behead the likes of Bigley, etc.? By the way, I don't think Bigley knew of his fate. Did you notice how clean shaven and neat his hair was on the video? He spoke very calmly. How could he not know he was about to be killed, I wonder, when he was hogtied, had the orange jumpsuit on, and 6 insurgents are standing behind him with weapons in their hands???? Such a damned shame.

Thanks again for emailing your support. Feel free to email anytime.
Take care!

Laura

BoudreauxsWife@aol.com wrote:
So glad to see someone that actually completes at whole thought.!!! I support most of what you place on the Blog at mypetjawa. I think alot of folks let ANGER control their actions... Not saying we should not be angry, of course we should.. But, constructively.... I am 42 and of all my voting years, this is the hardest election... I have always supported BUSH and will continue. He's doing wut should have been done years ago. I laughed when I saw Kerry standing at an all black church.... talk about sucking ass...... And I always thought CHURCH and STATE were separated..... Funny how it is when you are looking for votes..... All of a sudden GOD comes back into the picture.. But our same government wants to throw God out of our public lives... Oh well that's my peace of mind for the day.....
Andrea


Posted by: Andrea at October 11, 2004 01:52 PM (hoo48)

259 as posted earlier


>>Brave ones, you are. With your faces hidden
>>as you slaughter old men, hands bound,
>>held down by your useless air wasting comrades.
>>You are representing your religion well, >>courageous fighters!!

How about the Americans & brits that fly over towns and villages in fighter jets bombing those below them....faces hidden, paid & protected by a Government an d hailed as heroes over there for murdering women & children.

Posted by: CROWE_32CSM at October 11, 2004 02:19 PM (PXGmt)

260 Andrea - I wouldn't exactly describe Laura's postings as "whole thought" but then, you do come across as something of a racist bigot yourself and perhaps you have found a kindred spirit.

Laura, words fail me. "If it meant that innocent civilians would be caught up in the crossfire...so be it". You're talking about PEOPLE, human beings, children, babies - you can't just treat them as meaningless collateral damage. Next you'll be telling everyone that the US troops who fired on (and killed) UK troops in the first Gulf War were genuinely feeling friendly!! I'd stick to plan A if I were you, and get the hell off this blog, and the internet and stop depressing us with your scientifically incredible ability to breathe AND type with your single functioning brain cell.

Posted by: Cas at October 11, 2004 02:22 PM (RXb4J)

261 Cas, Hon, Just Calm down.... I have read most of your bloggings as well. You appear to me to be a very distraught individual. But, thats ok I understand your need to disagree with others that don't have your SAME opinions and that you need to twist others words, thoughts, and feelings into a negative.... It makes you feel very powerful.. I am NOT here to attack ANYONE the way you appear to be. As far as being a racist biggot... Sounds to me you have your own issues with being racist... Guilty dog barks first. If Kerry was in a white church I would have said... You missed the whole meaning of that comment.. But, that doesn't supprise me at all seems you MISSED THE WHOLE BOAT!!!!
Andrea

Posted by: Andrea at October 11, 2004 02:44 PM (hoo48)

262 Jody

I was responding to the 'this is 2004' comment made by one of your fellow countrymen. I therefore feel that my analogy was perfectly justified and stand by every word.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 11, 2004 02:56 PM (Ulxi8)

263 End the occupation of Ireland by the British
End the occupation of Palestine by the Israelis
End the occupation of Colombia & Iraq by the USA
End the occupation of the Basque Fatherland by Spain/France

and there will be less Insurgents as you call them, and also less support for these organisations.

A group cannot live without support. Therefore if its minority, in the fact its ran by a nutcase with no cause then it will not last. However if Occupying forces continue to murder civilians and steal homes & land, then the people of the occupied countries will rebel themselves or vastly support the organisations that do. That is not terrorism. That is survival !! and Defence !!

Posted by: Crowe_32CSM at October 11, 2004 02:57 PM (PXGmt)

264 Know what? Initially, I was turned off by Cas's and UK's comments and at first response, was going to leave this blog! But, who the hell are they? The Blog Monitors??? Freedom of speech, right? Just because someone disagrees with them, we're supposed to disappear into thin air and let yourselves play in your own little "pram"? Sounds to me like both of you are from the UK and are siding up against anyone who disagrees with you.

War is war....these insurgents are INTENTIONALLY KILLING hostages...we are there to snuff out the enemy. Prove to me where the US & UK soldiers (see? I'm sticking up for them too!) are INTENTIONALLY killing these civilians? Sure, you hear about civilians dying, but they just happen to get caught in it. How do you know the soldiers aren't trying to get them the hell out of there to get them out of harm's way? What about the soldiers giving candy to those children? Next thing you know, you'll be blaming that on them as well, saying they lured the kids there so they can get blasted.

I may have used some wordage that was misconstrued, so easy to do when typed and not said in person, but I still strongly believe in our adminisration and our troops being over there.

Hmmmmm, what would YOU say if one of those kids had a barrel of a gun facing YOU? Would you still say, "I can't do this, it's a kid?" or would you fight with the last inch of your life?

Convoluted logic.

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 03:02 PM (ptOpl)

265 some think america is bad .this is sad .what if you lived in a place like that?

Posted by: bob miller at October 11, 2004 03:04 PM (jNWaf)

266 remember pearl harbour remove iraq from the map

Posted by: bob miller at October 11, 2004 03:05 PM (jNWaf)

267 Welcome back Laura and GOOD for you !!!! It is very hard to express written as you would speak it. I come here from time to time to catch up on news and then can't resist a comment on a certain subject......
Andrea

Posted by: Andrea at October 11, 2004 03:10 PM (hoo48)

268 That's it Crowe, show your true colors, that others may know that some of the filth posting here are on the other side. It is obvious that failure and weakness still thrive. In your heart, and in your head.
You'd be scrawling your lame whinings on tree bark and hiding them from your rat fink neighbors, had not those braver and wiser than you chose to protect the way of life you enjoy.
Your pride in the jihadi's bravery and courage (i.e. kidnapping unarmed old guys and having your buddies tie them up and hold them down while you saw their heads off) is evident, and marks you as one of them, my enemy. My true sworn enemy.

Any time you want, asshole.

Posted by: martyr facilitator at October 11, 2004 03:12 PM (TG49H)

269 Laura

You could carry on believing all the lies that your beloved President has been feeding you (and my Prime Minister feeding me).

Or you could open your eyes and look at the facts for yourself.

It won't be long now before America is responsible for the deaths of a greater number of innocent Iraqi civilians than Saddam Hussein.

And it may have escaped your attention that the insurgents rebelling against the US' illegal occupation are the very same people that American troops were sent over to 'liberate from Saddam's evil regime' (remember also that that was excuse No. 2 - after failing to find any WMDs, the original excuse for the invasion)

Posted by: C00garUK at October 11, 2004 03:15 PM (Ulxi8)

270 Laura

You could carry on believing all the lies that your beloved President has been feeding you (and my Prime Minister feeding me).

Or you could open your eyes and look at the facts for yourself.

It won't be long now before America is responsible for the deaths of a greater number of innocent Iraqi civilians than Saddam Hussein.

And it may have escaped your attention that the insurgents rebelling against the US' illegal occupation are the very same people that American troops are supposedly 'liberating from Saddam's evil regime' (remember also that that was excuse No. 2 - after failing to find any WMDs, the original excuse for the invasion)

Posted by: C00garUK at October 11, 2004 03:17 PM (Ulxi8)

271 Open my eyes? What makes you think that just cause they didn't find any WMD that none exist? Do you think Saddam (not sticking up for him, just stating a fact) is stupid enough to have left any to find? Keep justifying your being against both our and your administrations with that lame excuse.

For everyone's information, Iraq WAS/IS/ALWAYS has been involved with 9/11, so for all of you still saying "why did we invade Iraq/"....Zarqawi trained in AFghanistan, and trained others under the Al Qaeda, he happened to end up in Iraq...for all you know, Osama could be there too!

Most of the Middle Eastern terroritories are against us. Maybe the other poster's right...there is no God..what loving God would allow this shit to happen???? Surely, this is NOT "His Will"...then He would be sadistic as well!

Almost every war was fought because of relgious beliefs. Doesn't that tell you something? Maybe we should stop with all the beliefs, and just learn to get along?



Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 03:26 PM (ptOpl)

272 Laura

Of course you are entitled to free speech. I have no beef about you continuing to make such a fool of yourself, with quotes such as contained in your latest effort:-

"we are there to snuff out the enemy"

Er, no you're not actually. Don't think even your President would be with you on that one. And just who ARE the enemy? The USA doesn't even know, which is why it's on a hiding to nothing with this illegal invasion/war/occupation! The only thing that is certain is that no evidence in existence linking your so-called 'enemy' with Iraq!

You really were at the back of the queue when intellect was being handed out, eh?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 11, 2004 03:31 PM (Ulxi8)

273 I'm a disgusted Irish citizen of many. My deepest condolences go out to Ken's family. These recent acts of terror show what the world has become today. These pigs who can carry out a most brutal murder need to be found before they can do anymore acts of terror on earth. In my opinion no media coverage should be given of any kind to these bastards. Governments of all friendly nations should converge to locate and wipe out these minor groups who thrive on attention. These lifeless 'Fuckers' should be locked away and deprived of life's beauty which they seem to disregard anyway. ''Poor Ken... May you find happiness now and may god take care of you.'' I have no ploblem with any religion if we all can live peacefully, in harmony together in this world. Its events like these that make we wonder what to believe in. But what goes around comes around... Its not an easy task for Blair to have on his hands. I hope these terrorists never see a trial or justice. They deserve nothing in this life. They should be cut into pieces slowly and fed to the crows. Disgusted are we Irish. Rest in peace Ken.

Posted by: Mark at October 11, 2004 03:31 PM (HQ+mC)

274 Andrea, I am not your 'Hon' and, should you actually READ my posts for the purpose of thinking about their content rather than attempting your laughable pop-psychology you would notice that I am not racist either. And I'm not distraught. Quite irritated by the ignorance that I've seen on this blog, much of it churned out by your chum Laura, but certainly not distraught. Perhaps if you spent less time watching Rikki Lake you could get your vacuous head around the real issues that some people are attempting to deal with intelligently on this blog. I object, strenuously, to the likes of Laura stating that the lives of Iraqi children are worth less than those of American children. I object to the people out there who seem to worship at the alter of American imperialism and George W Bush. Most of all I object to people using the horrendous events of 9/11 and the killing of hostages in Iraq as an excuse to peddle racist hatred of the basest kind.

On a somewhat less serious note, I also object to people who think that mindless elipsis can pass for punctuation. However, taking your grammatical ability as a metaphor for your thinking ability I am not altogether surprised to find the one following the other.

It will not surprise me either to find that your next post is full of more drivelling psycho-babble, about my posts and those of the other people here who disagree with you and Laura. Don't bother. If you want to analyse anything, try analysing why, exactly, you feel moved to support someone whose "constructive" feelings of anger lead her to the conclusion that "NUKE THEM!!!" is the answer to the crisis in Iraq. I'm sure we'd all be very interested to know that.

Posted by: Cas at October 11, 2004 03:40 PM (RXb4J)

275 "These recent acts of terror show what the world has become today. These pigs who can carry out a most brutal murder need to be found before they can do anymore acts of terror on earth."

"I hope these terrorists never see a trial or justice. They deserve nothing in this life. They should be cut into pieces slowly and fed to the crows."

Let the vicious circle continue in perpetuity...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 11, 2004 03:42 PM (Ulxi8)

276 I tell you what CAS, lets me and you go out into the parking lot.... And only ONE of us will come back inside... hahaha ME !!!

Posted by: Andrea at October 11, 2004 04:03 PM (hoo48)

277 Yes, Vamp was banned and I'm trying to remove his comments. Let me know if I miss one.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 11, 2004 04:09 PM (JQjhA)

278 There IS a connection with Iraq and Zarqawi! Listen to Bill O'Reilly, or don't you get FoX News Channel in your neck of the woods? He most certainly is in Iraq and trained under Al Qaeda, he even was wounded and was treated in a hospital that serves Al Qaeda members. Were he not one of them, there is no way he could have been treated there.

They all train under one ruler, whether they be from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

You and Cas are blasting others that don't share your thoughts on this war, but you've never exactly said what'd you do to fight terrorism. Don't blame Bush or Blair...they didn't start this mess. It goes WAY back before Bush's dad was Prez too. The hostage situation that was such a big deal in the media was under CARTER'S regime. And Billy Boy was Prez with the towers got attacked the first time in '93.

Doesn't matter whether we went to Iraq or not, terrorism existed before then, and I'm afraid, after as well, as we've all witnessed with the latest string of beheadings. Bush is NOT holding knives to their throats...the enemy is. And we DO need to snuff them out.

"eye for an eye".

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 04:17 PM (ptOpl)

279 “I think alot of folks let ANGER control their actions…Not saying we should not be angry, of course we should…But, constructively”

“I tell you what CAS, lets me and you go out into the parking lot…And only ONE of us will come back inside… hahaha ME!!!”

Now tell me Andrea, what's constructive about that? Or are you off the happy pills now, feeling as psychopathically violent as Laura?

Laura - well, if Billy O'Reilly says it you certainly believe it. If Billy told you to put your head up your own arse and attempt to sing and dance the conga would you do that too? The end result would probably be more intellectually valid that your bleatings on this blog!

Posted by: Cas at October 11, 2004 04:44 PM (RXb4J)

280 "They all train under one ruler, whether they be from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc."

LOL

"FoX News Channel"

I almost forgot you only have one news channel over there, and taht it is totally biased LOL

""eye for an eye"."

Once again, you prove that you're no better than the 'enemy'.

Oh dear!

If we were all like Laura, we wouldn't have to worry, 'cuase there wouldn't be a world to worry about, 'cause we'd all be dead...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 11, 2004 04:46 PM (Ulxi8)

281 I want to express my anger again at the beheading of Ken Bigley. By carrying out such a cruel, inhuman act these terrorists have proved that they are not worthy of any mercy and should be hunted down. I condemn the killing of innocent men, women and children by the occupying forces in Iraq, and I want the occupation to end as soon as possible.
The teachings of Islam don't justify beheading under any circumstances. By beheading civilians, the people who claim to be freedom fighters have lost all sympathy for their cause. In fact, a strong feeling of revulsion and anger against them has risen not only among the people of western countries but also Muslim ones.
The Muslim community in Britain and in other countries needs to speak out vehemently against such acts. The majority of Muslims, who are peaceful and moderate human beings, need to fight the extremists forcefully and openly.

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 04:46 PM (M2nd8)

282 AMERICANS ARE BRAINWASHED !!!!
Instead of watching only pro-american news, why not watch all different aspects and see what is really happening throughout the world, instead you are being "told what to think".



Posted by: Crowe_32CSM at October 11, 2004 04:47 PM (PXGmt)

283 These beheadings are the work of a frustrated, uncultured people who basically want the removal of Western countries interfereing in the affairs of the middle east. The U.S. backs Israel, Arabs hate Israel. Yet the U.S. also backs Saudi Arabia, a known haven for terrorists and known for human rights violations. Why? Because they have our precious "Black Gold". Countries like the U.S. and Britain need to understand that less developed countries need to grow on their own. Let them fight it out in their own way and let them learn from it, just like the more civilized nations did. By sticking your nose where it doesn't belong you can sometimes wind up having your nose removed. It's nice to think you are helping these countries but you really aren't, Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Israel need to help themselves with no outside influences and support. Let the chips fall where they may, and hope that a more civilized middle east will eventually be transformed from the barbaric state it's in.

Posted by: Devo at October 11, 2004 04:50 PM (hcsvu)

284 COOqarUK, I see the 'NUKE EM' brigade are out in force again.

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 04:59 PM (M2nd8)

285 Cas and CoogarUK are your typical NAIVE but pompous and sarcastic-to-the-point-of-being-really-annoying British pseudo-intellectuals who think they know everything. I've been to the UK and have seen their type before. They can't disagree on issues without making dumb comments like "stop watching Rikki Lake." How stupid! While I don't believe in "nuking" the Middle East, Cas and his type are so brainwashed by their "socialist-type" European news media that they don't get the all the facts however so I guess I can't blame them for their beliefs.

To the rest--when the Middle Eastern extremists stop attacking us, we'll stay out of those countries that harbor these terrorists who make war against us.

Posted by: jack at October 11, 2004 05:17 PM (mR349)

286 jack I respect the fact you have views. I myself am from Britain, and made many observations on this blog, such as, IT'S ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST, STUPID; SEND MORE TROOPS; TERRORISM LOSES THE VOTE; PSYCHOTIC MURDERS and RUMSFELD'S MISSING LINK. I would not consider myself as a "British pseudo-intellectual". Perhaps the British, and is supported by many comments on this blog, don't have the 'NUKE EM' mentality, as many of our American friends seem to have. That view is poppycock.

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 05:33 PM (M2nd8)

287 Somehow, I don't think bringing people up on their punctuation and telling them they watch too much Ricki Lake is really going to further anyone's cause.

I have followed this war closely and am still no closer to the answer of why we went there in the first place. Only Blair and Bush can tell us that, but no, I don't believe it's to do with oil. I agree with an earlier post that we won't find out the reason until far into the future.
So much confusion. I wanted Saddam out but now I fear we have put ourselves in the firing line.

As for placing the lives of Western children above those of the Iraqis, of course it's wrong. However, it's human nature to care more about your own kind. That's not to say it's right, but it's a fact. Why else would there be such a furore over poor Ken Bigley and the US gentlemen than over all the other beheadings (Turks, Koreans, other Iraqis), many of which didn't even make the British papers? And it works both ways. The Iraqi people generally weren't too bothered about Ken, from what I've read (hence the fact we couldn't find him in time - someone must have known his whereabouts, surely?) but then he wasn't one of their kind either. It's just the way our brains are built. That is one reason why there will always be war: because we are dysfunctional and selfish animals with too much intellect and not enough logic or compassion.


Posted by: t.h. at October 11, 2004 05:37 PM (C17ey)

288 Paul-I don't mean to say that all British people are pseudo-intellectuals, just certain sarcastic types like Cas with their "go watch Jerry Springer" comments. Most all Americans myself included, don't believe in "nuking" the Middle East, just wiping out the terrorists. However, the people on here who are saying "nuke em" are expressing their rage at the beheadings . I wouldn't take "nuke em" on here seriously.

Posted by: jack at October 11, 2004 05:45 PM (mR349)

289 Its nice to be nice, Religion should be Personnal desplaying it should ilegal, preaching it should be ilegal and teaching it should be ilegal. Searching for your own inner religion is healthy and law breakers should be fukin NUKED!!!!!!

Posted by: silver at October 11, 2004 05:46 PM (zotOT)

290 Laura,

I just joined this blog, and as I have no intention of sticking around, you can reply but I won't get a chance to read the inconstent babble that would be a response.

You are ignorant. Plain and simple. I do not mean this as an insult, but you are responding with rage and anger towards a people that you do not know, towards a culture that you cannot understand. Have you ever lived in such a land or do you just enjoy commenting on worldy issues that you will never know any more about than what Bill O'Reilly, or FOX or whatever you watch, says? I have spent several years as a missionary in South America and as a research assistant in Isreal. During my work on middle eastern city infrastucture, I had to work with people from all over, and especialy those that originate from middle eastern areas. While I may have learned much in the way of my area of study, I learned a lot more about the people with whom I lived. They are just like you, well I shoud say just like me, they are not quite as cruel and hate filled as you. They have good and bad days. The only difference is that a bad day to them is much worse than it is for you and me.

So continue with your hate. I can hardly beleive though that someone should care so little for a people. I don't disagree with Bush, I do disagree with your view on how little life in the middle east means to you. How lucky you are not to grow up in those circumstances. Instead of being grateful, however, you see yourself as better. You are distanced from them though, they mean nothing to you. They are fodder for your own personal hatred, and they can be sacrificed if it in some way can helps you. Your words digust me. I have talked and played with children of those areas that would like to eradicate and destroy. It is so hurtful to hear you say that it does not matter if those children that had such genuine acceptance of me are killed in crossfire. You are such a sad person. I feel sorry for anyone that has to cross your path or ever listen to your views. In my mind, you are one with the Nazi's. No other people matter but you and those whom you accept as worthy to live. What an incredible person you are to be able to make such judgement calls on who is important enough to live and die.

Posted by: Fighting Lee at October 11, 2004 05:47 PM (UUekz)

291 Now you are beginning to get on my nerves UK. Seems when you were in line for brains, they ran out when it was your turn. NO, FOX NEWS is NOT the only channel we get, I was just using that as a point of reference because you had stated in one of your posts something to the effect that I was wrong about Zarqawi's connection to Al Qaeda. I have loads of channels I can watch, MSNBC, FOX, CNN, C-span, CBS in NYC, on and on.

And no, we would "all be dead" is not right. Or we wouldn't have been here after we dropped the bomb on Japan, would we? Back in the 50s they talked about the obliteration of the world by A-bombs nuclear blasts, etc. If that were true we wouldn't be here now, no thanks to MY nuke 'em mentality.

Go pick on someone else, this back and forth bickering's starting to sound like a schoolyard fight. There are many others that share my views, why am I the one getting singled out for my opinions?

God help us all.

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 05:50 PM (ptOpl)

292 Jack, thankyou for your response. I'm to tired to view the site any longer, as it's quite late here. Have a read of the observations I mentioned in my last post, and I would look forward to your views on them.

Posted by: paul at October 11, 2004 05:53 PM (OR+2i)

293 Paul is about the only sensible person who can understand my rage. How come he wasn't bothered by my earlier "nuke em" rage? He understands that these comments come from someone WHO HAS LOST PEOPLE IN THE TWIN TOWERS! Can any of you say the same? You can sit back in your nice English gardens, Cas and UK, because you are so distanced from this. For me, it was a reality, for the rest of you, just another news day.

I had a missionary brother in law who worked in the Middle East, of course there are "people just like us" who only want to live in peace, blah, blah, blah. You think I don't know that? hehehe...I'm ignorant and stupid.

As for listening to Bill O'Reilly, what's wrong with that? I see he's making the millions, if his views were so off the mark, no one would be listening to him....,people look up facts, he wouldn't last long with a show like that if he just spewed off stuff that he couldn't back up.

What do YOU guys listen to over there? Monty Python? I get World News too. Unfortunately, it's a CNN based channel, who are so into Bush bashing, it's shameful.

Was there ever a President anyone truly respected? People said stuff about Clinton, Bush Sr., and all the others. There will never be a Prez everyone supports.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I support our troops. Gee, no one's saying how many of our guys are getting killed, some of them not really wanting to be there any more than we do.

We didn't start the fire, remember that. We were minding our own business when the towers were struck in '93, and again, in 2001. How long must we wait?

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 06:29 PM (ptOpl)

294 Ooops, sorry, I think I meant the above post for Jack.

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 06:35 PM (ptOpl)

295 While it is sad that you lost someone in the 9/11 crash, you don't know what true terror is. That was one day, as you say, of horror for you. That is many people's lives in the middle east. Try and compare your pain with the lives of those that live in tragedy.

Oh, and just because you lost someone, it doesn't make it right to "nuke" others, especially civilians who didn't have anything to do with your pain. One last thing, what does your brother in law missionary have to do with anything? Were you there with him? Did you somehow gain an experience of that life through him? It's one thing to hear stories, its another to see it.

Posted by: Jess at October 11, 2004 07:02 PM (UUekz)

296 Rusty, there is another thread or blog, about Bigley's beheading video, where there aren't as many comments, about 15 or so? Vamp's posts are in there as well and have not been deleted.

He needs to be erradicated from all the blogs. What a sick piece of shit.

Thank you.

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 07:06 PM (ptOpl)

297 Laura, there is something very wrong with your understanding of the UK. I would thank you not to mock my Country or I might be forced to remind you of just how myopic the American view of the world is.

I will say no more except this: I just hope that ALLAH remembers the victims and shows as little remorse for the people who commit such crimes in his name.

Said without any form of prejudice - Mark from (UK)

Posted by: Mark Doig at October 11, 2004 07:13 PM (6lNvO)

298 Jess, the same can be said for you. Were YOU there in the Middle East as well, with the other commenter?

I didn't say nuke them all seriously, as smart Jack pointed out. It's human nature to want to cause harm to someone who did harm to your loved ones.

Like I said, it's easy to say things when it's not your family, friends, coworkers that were attacked. Same shit, different country.

Unless you were personally involved, you can never know the anguish and pain. Just because we live in the US doesn't mean we hurt any less. It's not my fault I was born in a free country, now is it? I don't wish anyone harm except those that do us harm. And if that means invading a country where these insurgents are to be found, then so be it. How else are we going to get them?

I've asked this several times, but all everyone wants to do is flame me for my opinions but no one is actually saying what they would do to end this mess??? Easier to cut someone else down for wanting it to end.

I am not the only one who feels this way, so I guess, according to Cas, Uk, and whoever else is a bleeding heart liberal, we are all "ignorant and stupid".

When I backed off and said how do we handle this if we don't nuke em, I almost had UK's attention, because then I would be thinking like he was...the minute I became enraged again, when I found out that Bigley was killed, the insults, name calling and the like, were back again.

So if I were to back down and say, "gee, I'm really sorry I take back what I say", you would then discuss this situation?

Sorry, I stand by what I said, and am not afraid to say it, but let's try to stick with the war at hand....and not go back and forth with the "he said, she said" mentality.

What's wrong with wanting justice done to the terrorists? This is all I've ever wanted. And if it means innocent people are killed, sorry but that's what war is. It happened in every war, why should this one be any different?

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 07:16 PM (ptOpl)

299 Ok this is starting to look suspicous. Attacks from all the UK's! Mark, what the hell do you mean I'm knocking your country? Where did I say that? I was talking to UK and Cas, when I mentioned sitting in their English gardens, oblivious to everything, because they were not directly involved with 9/11 as I was.

Are you sure you're not being told to comment by UK and Cas? You all seem to be ganging up on me.
Or is it that you people are so ignorant and prejudiced toward the Americans that everything we say is considered rubbish to you?

I stand behind Blair as well, with his alliance to Bush, where is that misconstrued into thinking I am knocking your country? Or was it the Monty Python reference? The same could be said for slamming me as well, with the comments about Fox News and Bill O'Reilly.

It's getting late, I see, I'm in a one woman army here...hehe.

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 07:21 PM (ptOpl)

300 hey Laura,
I am not british and I wasn't trying to get you all riled up. I support Bush and Blair. The war is right. The question is, are your views of Iraq right? How do you know that I am not directly related to 9/11, or that I am not from the middle east myself? If I was, i wouldn't use my real name, that's for sure. Especially not after you wished death on me and my people. Think before you go off. Laura, I want this war to end. In an ideal world, we could just pile all of the terrorists in one spot and kill them. That's not the case, unfortunately. The reason that you are being picked on is because you are so angry. You just say whatever and don't stop and think of anything. I make one comment and you write a short story about how mad you are. CAS and UK make valid points. Now don't get mad, just try and see some other views. Can't you just respond like an adult and carry a normal thread.

God bless the soldiers and the cause

Posted by: Jess at October 11, 2004 07:33 PM (UUekz)

301 Wished death on a whole people? Nah like Jack said, it's okay to be enraged over the futility of war. I wish death on the terrorists and only the terrorists. Unfortunately, a lot of terrorists DID start out as children, and I'm sure many will be recruited for their cause. For record's sake, I do not intentionally wish harm on ANY innocent civilians, man, woman or child. But our troops that are there, must defend themselves at all costs, that is all I will stress from here on in.

Everyone, pick on the others, who have spewed much worse hatred than I have. Just scroll upwards and there are many who wish the whole myriad of countries to be blasted to smitherines. They have probably made just one or two comments and have left the blog.

Those that choose to remain, as I have, will be flamed endlessly. No sweat.

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 07:55 PM (ptOpl)

302 All I can say is that my heart goes out to all the families that have innocently died due to this war, and whatever God they look upon may they rest in peace. Amen

Posted by: Mr GS at October 11, 2004 08:04 PM (qTayF)

303 Laura,
I am not flaming you or whatever. I am trying to converse with you. I am sorry that you have seen all of these comments as attacks. I and many others have probably misinterpreted statements where you have seemingly expressed that the country needs to be destroyed and if children and civilians die then oh well. I also thought you were saying that since terrorists were once children, that if middle eastern children are killed its ok because they too will grow up that way. That is how I interpreted it, and I apologize if that is not what you meant to express. America is full of racist killers, some foreigners could see that and say, hey, look at how America does things and how they believe, their children are wicked. This is what I thought you were doing, but from your last message, I guess I was wrong and I apologize. I pray that God comforts you for your losses. Bye

Posted by: Jess at October 11, 2004 08:05 PM (UUekz)

304 Hey its a terrible thing to happen to poor old Ken, but no need to lose your head [Hayley]
He was whinging english git who was there for the money and to buy a house in Thailand to shack up with his off-the-shelf girlfriend, don't try and read any more into it than that.
That's tragic enough in itself I suppose but don't try and make him out to be a saint
Think the theory that he may have been shot previously may be correct,if so,good for him, I saw the other vids and its an awful way to be killed, but hey, pretty quick, probably better than cancer. Know what I'd prefer.

Posted by: steve39 at October 11, 2004 08:05 PM (kjYIz)

305 oh, and I can't resist, but not some of the terrorists started out as children, all of them did, unless I am misunderstanding the laws of procreation.(haha, just a joke, no foul intended)
have a good evening, Laura
bye

Posted by: Jess at October 11, 2004 08:08 PM (UUekz)

306 Hi [LAURA]
Read your posts, liked them. Just trying to think of something that will really enrage you... will let you know when I have something... maybe you can find something in one of my posts?

Posted by: steve39 at October 11, 2004 08:13 PM (kjYIz)

307 I take your point Steve but it is still no way to die, with a loving family back home espescially his Mother. No parent wants there children to die before them. And yes he did make the desicion to go as the money would have been fantastic, but no way on earth would I go.

Posted by: Mr GS at October 11, 2004 08:17 PM (qTayF)

308 I see a lot of posts here supporting George Bush and it boggles my mind, why? why? WHY? The guy is a buffoon. Have any of you seen him talk? He can barely string a sentence together without bungling it up. Now, I'm not a big John Kerry fan...the guy is a stiff, but c'mon he's better than Bush. It always amazes me that in a country as large and as advanced as the U.S that more intelligent, charismatic and capable people don't rise to the top and become President. Obviously I'm not going to change anyone elses opinion of the guy but someone please, please, PLEASE explain to me his appeal. I'm really curious.

Posted by: Devo at October 11, 2004 08:32 PM (hcsvu)

309 Ah yes poor old mum.
I'd be pretty happy to die at 62 and still have my mum alive, and good on him, sure he would have wanted that too, she'll outlive the lot of us.
What is the average life expectancy for an Iraqi citizen again?
He had a good innings.
Bless old Ken
Now what are those Bush guys doing with Saddam, and have they caught Osama yet?

Posted by: steve39 at October 11, 2004 08:33 PM (kjYIz)

310 Oh great, Jess, let's add English 101 to the history lessons..heheh! You're right, ALL of ther terrorists started out as children!

No need for apologies, when one is as enraged as I was after Bigley's killing was announced, suffice it to say, and misintepreted as well, that I wanted them all dead because they would grow up to kill us...no, not the innocent children, the ones that would grow up to be terrorists. Ah, semantics cannot be explained simply. Had we all been in a room discussing this, it most certainly would not have been misconstrued. It would be taken for what it was, angry comments made from someone who is hurting from the loss of loved ones.

Can anyone argue that other countries hate us for what we are and what we represent? They are jealous of the freedoms we enjoy here. Then, why not be like us, if they are so jealous of us and the perks we enjoy?

And if they truly wish to be free, why don't they leave their country and make a better life for themselves, as my ancestors did, when they left their European countries, ruled under Communism and fascism? They came to NYC, uneducated, unable to speak English, but learned the language, became citizens and hard working taxpayers.

Why can't others?

Posted by: Laura at October 11, 2004 08:34 PM (ptOpl)

311 [Laura]
How come everyone else can wind you up but me
I got work to do anyway, I just thought for a moment...

Posted by: steve39 at October 11, 2004 08:48 PM (kjYIz)

312 as someone b4 me has said, behead the bitches that these arabs wanted realeased!!!! come on its what has to be done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: londoner at October 11, 2004 10:09 PM (FUxGT)

313 [Hayley]
Just read your posts again and they made me even angrier than before, cheers love.
I can hardly get out of bed and walk outside these days without thinking there's some arrogant bigot out there (probably human god help us) trying to preach to me what I should think under the name of some god or other who purports to be master or mistress of the universe.
This in itself is inconsequential, but when you put it in the context of all the US and coalition soldiers who have been killed, well.... who cares? they knew the risks when they took the job - they retire afer 20 years and take the risks associated with it and if they don't read the fine print they're probably dumb enough that they won't suffer much.

Posted by: steve39 at October 11, 2004 10:30 PM (kjYIz)

314 Well, driving a car is full of risks and you know that "Steve39" when you get behind the wheel, so using you logic, I guess whe can say who cares if you croak in an auto wreck. Bye now.

Posted by: BLN at October 11, 2004 10:36 PM (mR349)

315 Believe it or not I have read all the above posts. My conclusion is muslims will continue to attempt to defend their savage, just out of the trees brothers. America haters will continue their stupid finger pointing. However, I detect something good happening. People are getting educated about the world of Islam. Slowly, so slowly the real truth is coming out. Iraq is not the problem. Saddam was not the problem. Bush is not the problem. Blair is not the problem. The America haters are not the problem. The problem is in North America, Africa, Europe and Asia. It is called Islam. It is a religion based on hated, jealousy and cruelity. Islam's bible calls for war against others. It's in black & white. The leaders of Islam teach this. WAKE THE HELL UP PEOPLE. No civilized person can possibly believe this gutter religion is anything but the most important problem facing the world. Worse than cancer, plague or aids. Take a look at the world now and for the last 20 years. The slaughter going on in Africa is caused by the followers of Islam not the followers of Bush & Blair. The killings of children in Russia stem from Islam. It goes on & on. 9/11, India/Pakistan. Indonesia, Israel, Afganistan, Phillipines, Balkans. Islam is the problem. Why in the hell can't people put 2 & 2 together. The leaders of this religion teach violence in their pulpits. The world will never be at peace until this insane religion is brought under control. The question is? Is it going to be them now or us and them later? GOD DAMN IT! Get your heads out of the sand and see the world and what it's becoming. America is standing tall for the future of the civilized world.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 11, 2004 11:11 PM (pSK/I)

316 I see that Mark in the UK has put the rag back on his head. Wasn't hard to figure.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 11, 2004 11:23 PM (pSK/I)

317 COUGARUK AKA TURKEYUK:
How are you. I see I again have the mis-pleasure of reading your crap. Gone to bed with any terrorists lately? Or maybe its their camels you're after. You America hating, terrorist loving piece of shit.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 11, 2004 11:32 PM (pSK/I)

318 NASTY: If we left Irag those who are crying because we saved this country from a madman would cry because we didn't rebuild it better than it was before. How do you win? Just more fodder for the America hating terrorist huggers.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 11, 2004 11:54 PM (pSK/I)

319 DEVO: Because he's basicly honest. He doesn't claim to be a genius. Contrary to liberal opinion he did make his money on his own. Kerry has never did anything but aspire to political office and marry into wealth. Clinton's dishonesty has made people scared of democrats. Remember (I never had sex with that girl, Ms Lewinski, not one time, ever). Another reason is that the democrats 1st choice in leadership was Dean who turned out to be a fruitcake. Notice how they hide him today. Then there is Jessie Jackson a big supporter of Kerry. Jackson was caught stealing and using the money to buy a house for his lover while he was (happily married to another). Nice show for a man with Rev in front of this name. I believe Kerry would have a better chance if he stayed away from the Clintons, Dean, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and such. Americans are not the fools jealous people think we are. How could we be? Look at our standard of living. Lastly, we know that whenever republicans gain office they will do something greedy. We also know that the democrats will do something stupid. Which is better? I know that the liberal terrorist excuse makers are now going to post that Bush lied about the war. We know he really didn't. He took the advice of the government agents and agencies. Normally, most goverment workers are 85% democrats. So that dog won't hunt. Today, Kerry really put his foot into his mouth using the word nuisance when referring to the terrorists. Nuisance to Mr. Bigley? I really believe that is the end for him. 3-4 days Bush will be ahead 10 points or more. One more thing. We are aware that a candidate has to make deals and promises to be president. It takes lots of money. Bush is favored by business because of taxes. He's already made those deals and promises. We know this. We don't know who Kerry has made his deals with.

Posted by: greyrooster at October 12, 2004 12:44 AM (pSK/I)

320 When the hell is it going to end??? It seems that we as Americans continue to involve ourselves in the disgusting unreal behaviors of those who call themselves human. They cannot even afford the decency of beheading someone with an axe!!! Fuck all you bastards!!! I spit on all that you worship and if you think this is a HOLY WAR you are crazier than my pig fucking uncle. Bush, rock on and exterminate these lesser than maggot posers.

Posted by: Who the fuck cares at October 12, 2004 12:45 AM (2UkQ3)

321 Here's how much you know, [BLN]
I didn't have a drivers licence until I was 25 and then was only forced to get one when i had to as I had to drive 20km to work including a traverse of a bridge transversable by motorised vehicles only - prior to that I biked 6-10 km in 0-4 degree celsius temperatures in the winter, thank you very much.

and yeah, who cares if I do die in a car crash?
no-one I know of...

don't want to go on, this blog stuff is kind of fun if extremely timewasting but what else are you going to do (other than work, which I have been doing since I was 14 not that its any of your business or that you should even think of asking)

it all sucks, face it

I like Fox News though

and how about those Simpsons - they have such yellow hands - and so few fingers!

Posted by: steve39 at October 12, 2004 12:47 AM (kjYIz)

322 Yeah Laura, cos like I'm really jealous of America LOL

As for your ancestry, have you ever asked yourself why the language you speak is called ENGLISH?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 12:48 AM (Pnisc)

323 I dont see why british and american people should fall out over this. After all..its only aiding these scum. We should all stand up to these muslim extremists! Lets burn down their mosques. Run them out of the west altogether!. We have a great western life, why let these sand jocks try and take it away from us with their extremist views. Read the Koran, as someone already posted. In it they say they want a total muslim world. Lets do our best to stop this. Lets go back to the old CRUSADES, and kill these scum. Keeo up the good work GIs!! God is with you.!

Posted by: Casho at October 12, 2004 12:54 AM (rTpKc)

324 For anybody who has any doubts about what ALL muslims are up to..just read the link

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=282392
verse 9.29...9.30.
Their own bible says to kill us!. Jesus. Lets get them first.!! Anybody who has a problem with that can go and live with them! Makes it a lot easier to do the job....

Posted by: Casho at October 12, 2004 01:07 AM (rTpKc)

325 Paul, You need an explanation right? When I said it's time for payback, I didn't mean the payback was going to be from us - Africans. God is using another set of idiots to pay you back. And we are just watching u guys. So, do u now totally agree with me?
And as for "truth hurts", I'll give u full info about all d nice places in Nigeria if u wish 2 know.

Posted by: hola at October 12, 2004 06:47 AM (WZZ21)

326 steve39, we are not making Bigley into a saint. We just happen to feel slightly sorry that the old man was kept in captivity for three weeks in adject terror and humiliation then had his head sawn off for all the world to see.

The subject of Ken Bigley is what this thread was originally intended for, not dismissing his death as a calculated risk. He didn't go there for the big bucks, he had been living there for years before the war. And as for saying all the US and coalition soldiers are dumb...well, I don't like this war one bit, but all I can say is I'm glad it's them out there with their lives on the line and not me. It's so much easier to stay at home and complain about them, don't you agree?

To any bystander I'm afraid you either sound very jaded and lacking in compassion, or you're deliberately trying to wind people up for your own entertainment.

Posted by: t.h. at October 12, 2004 07:22 AM (C17ey)

327 Vamp you are a nut lol

Posted by: Surely at October 12, 2004 07:39 AM (bdfQJ)

328 This blog is addictive!
and that Laura is a sicko.

Posted by: Surely at October 12, 2004 07:42 AM (bdfQJ)

329 where is the video of the beheading?

Posted by: anonymous at October 12, 2004 07:45 AM (O6B/O)

330 We must be very careful not in generalize these masacres on a particular religion. We must target the guilty ones only and pray for our ennemies.
I personally cannot understand the reasoning behind such sick death sentence and never will. Life is sacred. It is given to us by God and whosoever takes ot away will one day answer to God Almighty.
To all the the families of beheaded victims, take comfort in the Lord for this wrath belongs to the Lord. And I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of these beheaders when comes judgement day.
I pray for Ken's soul. May he rest and may he be rejoicing with God now. I am praying for His family. One cannot understand such horror, nor should we try too. Let us pray that it stops soon so that no other family should be put through such horror.
To the British government: how many deaths will you tolerate. The all the world governments; get your armies together , move in and get all those animals. What does it take to bring peace? We best all repent now and pray. The end times are nearer than one may think. In a wink of an eye, we will be there.
God have mercy on us all.
Moncton - New Brunswick - Canada

Posted by: Ray at October 12, 2004 07:50 AM (tbkeD)

331 God said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
Who started the war?

Posted by: Ray_Knob at October 12, 2004 07:56 AM (bdfQJ)

332 Listen God I own the governments and the governments do as I say. I will teach the governments that they must make the people believe that God is blessing them and on their side when we know the truth eh God!

God Bless America for it gives me life oh yes God !!America gives ole Satan life!!

Posted by: Satan at October 12, 2004 08:02 AM (bdfQJ)

333 Stick around Laura , we may not always agree with each other on this forum but at least we can remain civilised. unfortunalty some teenies are up late getting off on this list with their comments designed to ruin it....heres hoping that Rusty will keep them off. Making politically incorrect comments is one think but deliberatly mocking the trajic situation is quite another. We have all made comments in anger and frustration and that is acceptable in a debate such as this but please try and keep it at an adult level whatever you political beliefs.

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 08:10 AM (u0yCj)

334 Laura is civilised?
Nuclear war wishers are not civilised...
Laura's soul belongs to me and she has said FAR worse then most, and I deserve her soul!!!

Posted by: Satan at October 12, 2004 08:19 AM (N6CXa)

335 BAF, U said u r really too curious,A video can't give u the details you need. If u're really truly curious,I guess u should get on a fucking plane to Iraq and let yourself into the hands of Zarqawi, that way you would know exactly how it all went with Hensley, armstrong and Bigley.
Everybody hates Laura on this blog, WHY????????

Posted by: shey at October 12, 2004 08:20 AM (ZOCbs)

336 INTELLIGENCE ON IRAQ AND THE PM.

Charles Duelfer, the CIA weapons inspector, confirms that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction at the time of last year's invasion. To ensure that the reputation of our intelligence services is not degraded with obfuscation by the political spin machine in Downing Street, I believe that the Prime Minister has a duty now to state if he had clear and positive intelligence information from these sources that Saddam Hussein had such weapons before Iraq was attacked.
Likewise, Mr Blair should prove his support of our intelligence services by admitting that he had not been told by them there were links between Saddam and al-Qaeda.
The Prime Minister has stated a desire to "move on" from Iraq. Surely he would not wish to leave behind any misunderstanding about the evidence on which he made his decision to go to war. Such failure would be deeply harmful to the morale and bravery of our intelligence community. They did not fail us. He did.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 08:22 AM (csl4q)

337 Was that before or after he murdered DR KELLY?

Posted by: Blair_Witch at October 12, 2004 08:26 AM (N6CXa)

338 Oh, ok 'Al-zarqawi.'

Or should I say, 'Denny'?

Talk about Dennis the Menace. Not.

Posted by: t.h. at October 12, 2004 08:43 AM (C17ey)

339 CHINA'S HOSTAGES.
Al-Qaeda's challenge should stiffen resolve in Beijing.

The kidnapping of two Chinese engineers in Pakistan by al-Qaeda fighters demanding an end to American operations along the Afghan border has made China a victim of al-Qaeda's global assault on humanity. With the threat that the two men will be blown up if Pakistani forces approach the hideout in the tribal areas of Waziristan, Chinese diplomats are holding talks with Pakistani and US officials on how to negotiate with the hostage takers. One deadline has already passed, and concern is growing in China. A country that long pretended it was not part of the extremists' vendetta against the West will enevitably and inexorably be forced to play a more constructive global role.
Al-Qaeda's seizure of Chinese citizens is not fortuituous. Muslim extremists have long been active in the remote western Chinese province of Xinjiang, where eight million Muslim Uighurs live in resentful co-existence with Han Chinese immigrants. Al-Qaeda, seeking to exploit separatist sentiment to create an Islamist state of East Turkistan, has linked its cause to that of Uighur separatists. China has responded with a campaign of repression that, for now, has halted a bombing and assassination campaign but led to new curbs on religion, the arrest of hundreds of Uighur activists and the execution of their leaders.
China's own campaign against Islamist extremism blunted Beijing's opposition to the US-led attack on the Taleban, and secured China's support at the UN for the global compaign against terrorism. This support, however, was always more nominal than real. China wants the US to take the lead in countering terrorism while not being willing itself to take a large political profile. It opposed the war in Iraq, and has continued to withhold support for a more active UN underpinning of Iraq's provisional Government. And it has exploited Third World resentment of American global power by suggesting that Washington's aims in Iraq and in the Middle East were to establish US political and economic dominance.
Meanwhile, the campaign against Muslim separatism in Xingiang has intensified. Young people are barred from mosques, foreign Muslims are banned from meeting local imams and mosques are routinely forbidden to issue the call to prayer. The influx of Han Chinese has accelerated to tip the balance against the Turkic Uighurs. As a result, moderate Muslim leaders now find that they are quickly being sidelined by extremists inspired by the the example of al-Qaeda violence.
Al-Qaeda now has a clear intrest in exacerbating the confrontation. The kidnapping of the engineers revulsion at that it will take the fight to any country seen as an enemy of Islam. That, in turn, should alert Beijing to the dangers of trying to profit from America's discomfort in the Muslim world. Terrorism affects everyone. That is a lesson China must act upon. It should offer assistance before it is in need of assistance.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 09:05 AM (csl4q)

340 So Paul, have you scrolled up and read my response? Have I made myself clear?

Posted by: Hola at October 12, 2004 09:35 AM (wIbGV)

341 And what utterly non-sensical, hypocrite bullshit to start going on about what a nice guy Ken was. Being beheaded doesn't make you a nice guy - have any of you met him? If the answer is no then what are you talking about? Can't you see how stupid that is? What was he doing in Iraq in the first place?

Posted by: Angry Brit at October 12, 2004 09:54 AM (QSn84)

342 Nice to see freedom of speech reigns supreme here - deleting people's posts on some wierdo internet geek 'I-get-turned-on-by-watching-people-getting-murdered' site doesn't make you right.

Posted by: Angry Brit at October 12, 2004 09:56 AM (QSn84)

343 Hola, as I've alresdy mentioned, I agree with you about slavery. However, in your comment, there are signs that the terrorists and the harbouring of terrorists, could be starting to manifest itself in Africa. I believe poor African states and its long suffering peoples, are ideal breading grounds for the likes of al-Qaeda. Perhaps this is why my Prime Minister, Mr Blair recognises this, and has suggested to other European countries, to relieve the debt on African states. You suggest Africa "sit's, in the middle, watching". I hope you don't lean to the side of terrorism.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 10:07 AM (S+MX0)

344 Angry Brit.

Exactly what ARE you angry about?

What was Ken Bigley doing in Iraq in the first place? He had been making a living as a contractor for many years (since before the war).

I guess we assume he was nice because he had never hurt anyone and was therefore innocent.

You disgust me.

Have a little respect for the dead, and for yourself while you're at it.

Posted by: t.h. at October 12, 2004 10:10 AM (C17ey)

345 Why would a lobster be screaming?

Posted by: why_would at October 12, 2004 10:25 AM (3QlgZ)

346 Has bought and eaten chickens?
They have no heads right?
You terrorists!!!

Posted by: Who_here at October 12, 2004 10:27 AM (3QlgZ)

347 message to Angry brit

The posts that have been deleted where pathetic it was not because the person concerned enjoyed watching the videos it was because quite simply he was (thicker than you if thats possible) and his posts made less sense. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech as you would realise if you scrolled back up this list and read some of the posts which are extremely controversial so what you have done is to dive in head first and make a tit of yourself. Angry Brit my arse, Thick brit more like..............

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 10:28 AM (HOSwD)

348 Reference, Angry Brit, Have you met Ken Bigley either? Everybody has an opinion, the way you put your points across, its as if your opinions are qualified ones, as opposed to gagged by blair's, whom in my view, has a more balanced view than your's. Scroll up and educate yourself, I would love your opinions on my previous comments such as, RUMSFELD'S MISSING LINK; PSYCHOTIC MURDERS; TERRORISM LOSES THE VOTE; SEND MORE TROOPS and IT'S ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST, STUPID. Let's see whether you are a balanced person or not.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 10:46 AM (Cm3tF)

349 NOTE TO SELF:
I really should stop copying and pasting references from the internet in order to make myself look slightly intelligent and knowledgable.

I really should remember this war is an illegal one.

I really should remember that I talk out of my arse.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 11:06 AM (PhpIN)

350 Steve39, in response to your ques, I don't know why you haven't riled me up...yet...hehehe.

I had a long conversation with a good friend who lost a nephew(firefighter) in the twin towers. lest anyone forget this shit started WAY before, Bush, Blair and even Bush Sr.

Maybe some of you weren't around, but we had a hostage situation back in the late 70s, under Carter's regime. The villian then was Ayatolla Komeine (can't spell last name?). He was called, "assaholla" for short...heheh.

Anyway, these mid easterners have been coming into our country for the last 25 yrs., planning their destruction of America. Just remember Billy Joel's song, "we didn't start the fire".

You can argue Bush's reasons for invading Iraq all day long. Personally, Iran would've been a better choice...as THEY really started it.

And does anyone remember the takeover of a cruise ship about 15-20 yrs. ago? What was it, the Achilles-Loro??? These Libyans threw an American Jew, in a wheelchair, taking a cruise for his 50th anniv., off the damned cruise ship! Nice, huh?

These atrocities have been going on for yrs., yet all anyone really remembers is the last few yrs. or so.

Remember, they started this shit a looong time before 9/11. They hate us, they want us dead.

The only difference between that "Ussoldier" poster, who said he had to defend himself when he was looking down the barrel of a gun, is that he faced immediate danger. We are too, if we sit back and wait.

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 11:36 AM (ptOpl)

351 So, Angry Brit, we can assume that you do not have anything intresting to add to the debate, just generalisations and sweeping statements. I would not consider my previous comments "references". This just supports what others have gathered about you. They are observations, something which you find very difficult to comprehend.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 11:48 AM (Wdq+u)

352 No, thought not.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 12:26 PM (Wdq+u)

353 The reported theft of a book of condolence, for Kenneth Bigley, from a mosque, in central Birmingham, is dispicable beyond words. Not only does the family of Ken, have to accept his mindless murder, but now have to take this news on top of the agony they have already had to endure. Can Ken's family find it in their hearts to forgive these people?

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 01:04 PM (EJ0jW)

354 You're kidding, right? Who in their right mind would do such a thing? Where did you hear this, Paul?

I was thinking about the hostages' families, and I only hope that they never go on the internet and be tempted to view their loved ones' videos of their last moments. I also hope the children of the hostages aren't taunted by their classmates, or sent the videos in a link in their emails.

Now, I see they are killing their own civilians...what are they trying to prove by doing that? If that's the case, let's pull the troops out now, and let them do what they want. This morning, I heard about Chinese hostages. What next??? There is no rhyme or reason to these terrorists' actions.

No one has yet answered my ongoing question: what would you suggest to end the war on terrorism? Since many of you feel it wasn't right to invade Iraq, what SHOULD we be doing?

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 01:12 PM (ptOpl)

355 I work with an Arab from Egypt who I have had discussions with and he's a muslim who said look these people are killing other Muslims from Iraq and other traditionally muslin countries they are told in the koran that it is right to kill infidels and non believers and that includes other muslims who they consider to have strayed from the Islamic path the reward is spelled out in this wicked book..............72 virgins for their enjoyment..the bastards I hope when they get up there these virgins turn out to be transvestite bricklayers from the arse end of humanity and its bend over and think of England time.

Posted by: Gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 01:22 PM (WFeCK)

356 Laura, this dispicable news has been reported on BBC Radio, Five Live here in the UK. A book of condolence for the victims of Spanish train bombings, was also stolen at that time, and from the same mosque. So what next? Are these animals going to look up the names of the people who have put entries in it, and go and kill them? Yes, a big sweeping statement, I know. However, people do wonder why political parties such as, BNP, find support.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 01:38 PM (dGAiB)

357 Laura everybody knows that it was YOU pretending to be US_Soldier!!Well if they don't they do now, WE KNOW it was you and was waiting for your use of reference to him ROFLMFAO!!

Posted by: Law_Raw at October 12, 2004 01:44 PM (PhpIN)

358 Some may feel that beheading all grey roosters will make the world a safer place.

However, I fear that probably wouldn't stop them from continuing to run around spreading all their extremist, racist shit.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 01:55 PM (OujTR)

359 Paul,

I must take issue with your remark about the BNP. I doubt whether I could ever say anything to convince you of their point however the only advice I give out regarding the BNP is to not listen to what our bias left wing media tells you. The BNP is a legitimate political party that polled a million votes at the last election, now if we prosume that for each person that voted he or she knows half a dozen friends/family/workmates that hold similar views then suddenly you have 7 million. The british people Paul are not daft and are starting to catch on to the fact that we are being duped. And whilst we are being told how tolerant we the government is getting away with murder behind our backs and no matter how tolerant we are towards immigration the fact is we have had 20,000 immigrants a month entering this tiny Island for the last 10 years that of course does not include all the millions that were already here and of course all the thousands that are here illigally.Enough is enough, because as I have said before we will soon be in the minority. I know Blacks who have lived in the UK since the 1920's and even they are fed up to the back teeth with the constant stream of Bosnians, albanians, moldaviens, Asians and god knows who else that are coming to Britain for a better life. They are not all in danger of persicution back home and are simply looking to us to keep them. I do not descriminate between races, I don't want any of them here I simply want my country back, my culture back and a future for my kids. It is a well known fact that is kept suppressed by our politically correct leaders that the blacks Eastern Europeans and asains in this country are responsible for the vast majority of the gun crimes sex crimes and drug related crimes. At the same time I accept that whites in this country have sat with their thumbs up their arses whilst the country is crumbling around them, they are more interested in Sex, mind numbing soaps and bloody football...take a good look around you Paul and whether you agree with what the BNP says or not they have a legitimate right to say it, because once you deny us the right to speak out then who's next.......you maybe

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 02:04 PM (WFeCK)

360 "No one has yet answered my ongoing question: what would you suggest to end the war on terrorism? Since many of you feel it wasn't right to invade Iraq, what SHOULD we be doing?"

Well, you could stop being so racist, that might be a start. Or how about becoming self-sufficient in oil? Hmmm, guess that is a bit of a non-starter.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 02:10 PM (OujTR)

361 Message to C00garUK

I prosume you are from the UK. in which case..... I rest my case!

There is little wonder the UK is in the mess it is in and 100,000 whites are leaving it each year.....you stay with your immigrant buddys and live in a criminal multi-racial melting pot...

you'll soon be hearing "Who's the daddy now"

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 02:14 PM (WFeCK)

362 gagged by blair: another racist, doing his bit to ensure that the terror never ends

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 02:19 PM (OujTR)

363 It's time to correct a common misconception, the one that Ken Bigley had lived in Iraq for many years. This is simply untrue. In fact, he had been there for less than a year. His reason? Money. To top up his savings, and undertake one last lucrative contract to ensure a comfortable retirement for himself and his wife. I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

However, he was perhaps a little misguided and unfortunately speeded up his own death. That in no way justify his brutal murder, however the record needed to be put straight.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 02:24 PM (OujTR)

364 The Terror hasn't started in the UK yet, but we all know its coming dont we C00garUK ??

then what will you think of your Muslim brother then?

me thinks you might change your tune !!

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 02:25 PM (WFeCK)

365 gagged by blair, we have had our fair share of terror in the UK, tyvm. Part-funded by our 'special friends' in the USA.

I find It bad enough with Bush & Blair being economical with the truth, without you adding to the confusion.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 02:29 PM (OujTR)

366 have to agree

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 02:33 PM (WFeCK)

367 gagged by blair, thankyou for your last comment. I broadly understand what you are saying. In the news today for example, we have a population here in Britain, that is getting older and older, if we don't accept 'foreigners' here in this country, than our workforce, and our GDP, would not be what it is today, which is the fourth largest economy in the world. I've lived in Germany and I used to hear the views, which you are expressing here today. Germany takes more foreigners in, than any other European country. The difference being, when the Germans say enough of foreigners, the whole world says look, those bloody Germans again. I just hope that other countries don't view us the same.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 02:34 PM (rkCpI)

368 Will no one stop the remarks back and forth long enuf to answer my age old question by now, just what do you expect us to do to end the terrorism? Sit and hold hands? You can't reason with these people, violence is the only thing they know. We should catch one of those bastards, behead him, and send the video to Al Jazeera.

Law Raw, I wouldn't begin to answer your ridiculous claim that I was posting as "US solder"...if you need proof, ask Rusty what his ISP or email address is. He's got em all.

Gagged by blair: when the insurgents knock on these bleeding heart ibs in the UK's doors, will they still think that snuffing them out is not the answer?

No one on here has yet to comment about who's fault it is that we are in the current situation. I mentioned it started with Iran...people say I'm ignorant and stupid, and are quicker to slam my comments than to learn a little history. Hmmm, much easier, you don't have to have much intelligence to flame someone.

Who's ignorant and stupid now? I am probably older than most of you on here, who go by what they've read or heard, but I actually lived during these times and witnessed a lot of the crapola you people just read about and comment upon.

So, what about it? Any takers on solving this mess or who's fault it really was?

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 02:41 PM (ptOpl)

369 A Racist is someone who believes that one race is superior to another and that is not what we believe. We believe that races are different in some cases to such an extent that to mix is folly if you want to maintain your own identity and culture and I see nothing wrong in that ?

To deny differences between peoples is at best a lie and at worst stupidty. I am proud of my country and my heritage and want to maintain that. Why is it wrong to not want my kids brought up in a multi racial hell hole ?

Clearly Muslims have a completely different outlook on life and the Koran pushes that message home with a vegeance, so why is it all right for Muslims to be encourage racial and ethnic hatred but not anyone else.

Whilst we are on the subject did you know that the metropolitan police have a "Black Police officers association" do you think it would be seen as acceptable for the white officers to form a "White officers association" you know the answer to that, there would be hell to pay.....

What we want is fair play, know one complained when we had fair levels of immigration but what we have seen is a massive influx of out siders, including criminals from Sadams prisons that where released when the country was invaded not to mention Eastern European criminals. So "racist" is not the correct term..extremist maybe. If that is what I have to be to save my country the so be it!

Posted by: Gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 02:46 PM (WFeCK)

370 Laura, perhaps you'd have done yourself a huge favour if you'd been true to your word... and left. Instead you continue to demonstrate that wisdom does not always come with age.

"No one on here has yet to comment about who's fault it is that we are in the current situation."

It is quite clear that the blame for the CURRENT situation lies fairly and squarely at the doors of Messrs. Bush & Blair. The CURRENT situation started with the illegal US-led invasion of Iraq.

There, no doubt not what you wanted to hear, but it is the truth, and you did ask...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 02:47 PM (OujTR)

371 Yeah, I'll have a go Laura, nipping it in the bud at the most poorest parts of the world, stop Al-Qaeda from spreading their hatred in these poorest areas, start by getting Africa on our side, because you can sure bet that Osama and his mates are already manipulating there. The west has neglected these very poverished peoples for long enough, we have to play catch up, in the race to show these poorest countries that the west has hounorable intentions towards them and for them, maybe then Osama won't have any more recruits. (Well its a start isn't it)and thankyou...bye.

Posted by: kev at October 12, 2004 02:53 PM (rkCpI)

372 I think the argument about insufficiant white workers to maintain the economy is an old one. I think this and previous govenments especially the bastard tories have wrecked our manufacturing and done away with appreticeships which have always been the back bone of the workforce, the economy has been done down so that we cannot hold our own anymore and have to rely on Europe which is a great shame.....

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 02:54 PM (WFeCK)

373 Agree with C00garUK totally but I hesitate slightly..........maybe if I had lost someone in the twin towers or witnessed it etc maybe I would want to do what the US did, I can understand that point, but Blair had no reason to follow like a bloody lap dog and all he has done is to open us up to the possibility of a similar attack in the UK..........

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 02:59 PM (WFeCK)

374 gagged by blair, I agree with your point about the police aspect of your comment. And I think Kev has a point Laura! What would your suggestion to Kev's point be?

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 02:59 PM (rkCpI)

375 Can I just throw in my two cents here? You know, since this is like my site?

First, this is not a public discussion board. This is my PERSONAL WEBLOG. This is my house, you are all guests here. If I kick you out it is not censorship, it is asking you to leave and not come back.

Second, I have a pretty thick skin. I tolerate a lot of shit here. As Coogar UK can attest, I have even asked people who I have vehemently disagreed with over time to stay. However, even my tolerance has limits.

Third, don't push your luck people. Just today I turned over 'Vamp' (whose comments have been removed) to his ISP, and I take it they are pulling his service.

Fourth, I'm seriously considering shutting down this thread. It's gotten way too uncivil.

Fifth, is there a fifth? Ok, yeah, I would invite all of you to go to the main page and restart the discussion at another post if you'd like. I'll keep this thread open for a bit more and see how it goes.

Last, please send complaints directly to me at mypetjawa@gmail.com about violations. I actually have a job, and I don't get paid to maintain this page, so when a lot of comments come in I just don't have the ability to police any of my forums.

PS-Enjoy your debates. Keep it cool. Remember, we all have common enemies--just different strategies for winning. That should be the main focus of discussion: how do we beat the Islamofascist threat? Some argue carrot, others stick, or some a combo of the two. I think more stick, but that can't be the total solution. Honestly, if I had a complete solution I'd abdicate my throne and run for Congress.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at October 12, 2004 03:07 PM (JQjhA)

376 Getting Africa on our side? So that we can join alliances and invade another country together? CoogUK, you continue to flame me, saying I should've have left, etc., why? So you can continue with your opinions without being questioned?

Current situation caused by Bush and Blair..HA! Current situation is because of what happened over 20 yrs. ago...that the Mid East always has and will continue to hate us and plan our destruction. See? You don't even mention the other occurances that have happened over the years! All you do is attack me with infantile remarks, "with age doesn't come wisdom", "you should have left"...all those high school remarks, instead of keeping the debate going with intelligent answers to questions. You just keep the evasiveness going.

Again, may I remind you that the current situation is a result of what's been going on for many, many years. Had we not gone to Iraq, it would've been something else.

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 03:12 PM (ptOpl)

377 Yes, I would probably feel like exacting some revenge myself but surely you're missing the point.

The USA's illegal invasion of Iraq was not born out of revenge for 9/11... it was to destroy their WMDS, er no it was to liberate the poor Iraqi people from an evil regime, er no it was because of their direct links to Al-Qa'ida, er no it was ... damn, I've run out of excuses now LOL

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 03:14 PM (OujTR)

378 Rusty
I respect your wishes and I'm sure Laura , Paul and C00garUk do also, ...no harm is meant in fact we could carry on this discussion in the bar if there was one........

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 03:17 PM (WFeCK)

379 CoogUK, done myself a favor? You mean, I'd have done YOU a favor! YOu don't want anyone on here to post that disagrees with your pro-terrorist views! Why do you continue to stick up for the terrorists? Do you not agree that we need to get rid of them? How do you suppose we should initiate that?

Instead of blaming Bush and Blair for everything, how about going back in time, and explain the mess that they started years before 9/11? Or were you not even born then to witness what happened?

Everyone seems to forget the Iran hostage situation in the 70s, the bombing of the towers in '93, USSCole, embassy in Africa.....all way before 9/11!

Yet you continue to blame the current situation on Bush andBlair? How do you know these asshole wouldn't have done this anyway? How do you explain the beheadings of their own people, who had nothing to do with this "invasion of their country"? How do you explain that?

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 03:18 PM (ptOpl)

380 Laura

Just to put the record straight, I am more than happy for you to continue to come on here with your extremist views and misguided and misinformed opinions and make a complete and utter fool of yourself.

Perhaps you could help me out and define 'current situation'. I acknowledge the past events that you refer to, having also lived through them myself, however they are irrelevant to the 'current situation'.

Btw, it was you who said you were leaving, not I that was asking you to leave... just for the record.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 03:22 PM (OujTR)

381 "Instead of blaming Bush and Blair for everything, how about going back in time, and explain the mess that they started years before 9/11?"

The words mouth, foot and in immediately spring to mind.

Laura, nothing could be further from the truth. The longer you stay, the easier I find it to put my points of view across, dear. Please stay!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 03:26 PM (OujTR)

382 OMG, Vamp is BACK....thought he was deleted? Somehow, he found his way back.

First of all, Rusty, let me say that I apologize for anything I said that caused this to get out of hand. I was just looking for a good discussion and needed a place to vent, so enraged and upset I was, over the beheadings.

This is my first time on a "blog" site...I thought it was a public discussion board, similar to message boards on AOL, Yahoo, and newsgroups and listserv's.

I understand that this is your house and as such, can do whatever you want with it. I also understand why you want to shut it down. I am becomind a little leery at some of the comments on here, such as Vamp, Satan, and those who are really posting some weird shit, and not actually discussing anything about the subject at hand.

I don't wish anyone harm, like gagged, said, if we only could take this up in a bar, or as you say in the UK, "pub". Unfortunately, we cannot.

If you feel we should take this on your other page, so be it. And I agree with that and am okay with it.

Everyone?

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 03:27 PM (ptOpl)

383 Laura An Invasion might have benn acceptable for the US but i think the point C00garUK is making is Blair should never have taken "us" to war........And the bottom line is we where told that our troops where going in because of the 45 minute threat of WMD being used and now that has been proven wrong...Blair should stand down and stop trying to find other reasons why we went to war......America has beeen atrue friend and ally to Britain in times of crisis and we don't forget that But we know our Prime minister and he's a snake in the grass........

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 03:27 PM (WFeCK)

384 Good job, Rusty. But when was that then? Have I missed something?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 03:29 PM (OujTR)

385 Nitpicking are we? I meant "they", as in the terrorists. NOT Bush and Blair.

Please read my above post. I refuse to go back and forth on trivialities. There is so much that is missed when it's typed out. Or misconstrued. Or misunderstood. Or all of the above.

Just for the record, yes, I did say I was leaving at one point, but I didn't, so? Big deal! Now, because of the bickering back and forth, we ALL may have to leave, so you may get your wish.




Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 03:31 PM (ptOpl)

386 It is not my wish! How many more times?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 12, 2004 03:36 PM (OujTR)

387 Ignore vamp he's smoking the silly stuff again !!

Theres no doubt about it When the arabs brought the war to the US the US had to act...it was left with little choice, to get

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 03:37 PM (WFeCK)

388 i am a 16 year old student..i feel very scared.My prayers are with Mr Bigleys family at this moment. What kind of a world are we living in??? inocent people being killed for no reason at all?? then for footage to be shown on the internet...what sick human being would have any intensions of watching such a thing? has this not gone on for long enough? and there is certainly not enough being done by both Mr blair and Mr bush. i am so angry and so saddened to hear of Mr bigleys death, may god be with his family.....at this time though i am doubting whether there actually is a god we can rely and trust...i have never been religous, but how can any one believe there is a god who would let such things happen?

Posted by: laura at October 12, 2004 03:42 PM (ky4Xi)

389 are we calling it a night then folks

Posted by: gagged by blair at October 12, 2004 03:50 PM (WFeCK)

390 I dunno?! Where are we supposed to take this then? Isn't it the same thing, just a different place?

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 04:16 PM (ptOpl)

391 I can't believe the number of ignorant individuals who believe that the U.S. and Britain invaded Iraq for oil. The U.S. is not going to own any oil property in Iraq. It will continue to purchase oil at its international market price, which, ironically, has been made even higher for now by the supply uncertainty arising from the war.

The reason for invading Iraq was clear, even if based on faulty intelligence. It was believed that Sadam possessed WMD that could be passed on secretly to terrorists and be used against countries like the U.S. Even though no WMD have been found, they could still be in existence (hidden or sent out of the country before the war). More UN inspections would have been useless, since, without full cooperation, WMD could easily escape detection. Additionally, even if Iraq did not possess any WMD, it is clear that Saddam was just waiting until the sanctions would be lifted before reconstituting his WMD stockpiles. Given his past record of deceit, association with terrorists, and hatred of the U.S. and the U.K., it was a risk that was considered to be unacceptable.

Posted by: Steve at October 12, 2004 05:01 PM (e6eXE)

392 Laura, I think Kev meant on his earlier post, that perhaps the west has neglected places such as Africa, and such places could become ideal breading grounds for al-Qaeda and the like to spread evil about the west, perhaps if the west start to wipe off the third world debt, then you take an argument tool away from the likes of Osama and his ilk. Then perhaps when animals such as Zarqawi, kidnapp people off the street, then there will be less and less symphathy for their cause.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 05:08 PM (D1PkW)

393 You have to find a smoking gun, when its smoking then its to late.

Posted by: paul at October 12, 2004 05:19 PM (D1PkW)

394 I just want to say that all this is wrong. Nobody should be killing anyone. 9/11 was terrible, the beheadings were terrible. Can't people just get along? Is that so difficult? Having said that, Bush and Blair could do with a few beatings. In the name of peace? Oil, I think.

Posted by: Liam at October 12, 2004 07:46 PM (awfp8)

395 Paul, by the way, what are breading grounds. As I understand it the spelling is breeding. An education is what I have, maybe you might acquire one yourself if your subnormal head will tolerate that amount of influx!

Posted by: Liam at October 12, 2004 08:00 PM (awfp8)

396 Liam, his was most likely a typing error ie. typing breading for breeding. What are you a damn English teacher, lighten up. Anyway, he just has a different opinion then you, accept that the whole world does not think like you. Anyway, the belief that it was for oil in naive.

Posted by: JJ at October 12, 2004 08:49 PM (mR349)

397 LMAO! Sure, we've got English teachers and so-called historians, who think they know the backgrounds of all the Mid East, who they are, what they stand for. I do too! They are inhumane, they stand for hatred and Allah, and will stoop at nothing to do his deed.

Oh, did I ever mention that those so called "innocent civilians" were celebrating in the streets, passing out candy to the kids, after they heard about the twin towers? Yeah, your so called innocent women and children, rejoicing that 3,000 + "innocent people" died in those buildings.

Does anyone really think we can compromise peacefully with these insurgents?

Whole nother animal (with no offense to animals everywhere)

Posted by: Laura at October 12, 2004 09:04 PM (ptOpl)

398 Bet if Bush/Blair were socialists, people like Liam etc. would be praising them, it's all about politics, not any concern about Iraq.

Posted by: mart at October 12, 2004 10:14 PM (mR349)

399 I don't follow American politics. Therefore I don't know what Bush's politics are.

Therefore, for me it IS about Iraq, and the USA's ILLEGAL invasion of that country.

Good old US of A, making the world a safer place. In its dreams. In fact it has achieved the opposite.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 12:50 AM (NcLku)

400 I know it is too late, but I think there are options if we have the guts.
Option 1 : Everyone quit Iraq and leave them to manage their own affairs.
Possible results : Anarchy - but it is now their problem to solve it the way they want. May be they would start kidnapping and beheading each other themselves.

Option 2 : Get Saddam back in the chair and give him a 90 percent freedom to bring in peace.
Possible results : I have a strange feeling that this may work, as long as we can ensure that he dones not get behind the people who opposed him.

Option 3. Just seal the borders of Iraq, and let them do what they want inside - we not being interested in what is happening there.
Possible results : It is too dangerous.

Posted by: John at October 13, 2004 02:21 AM (V9Ohd)

401 Laura:
The images that you saw about them cheering in the streets etc was actually footage from the GULF WAR!!!

Another propoganda movie that was exposed!

Posted by: Oh_Dear at October 13, 2004 03:17 AM (4YWe7)

402 Why is somebody up there speaking for ALL Irish people?
I know plenty who sympathise with the Iraqi's you know.. IRA and all that!
IRA terrorists who the Americans funded!
Don't speak for all Irish People.

Posted by: Oh_Dear at October 13, 2004 03:33 AM (4YWe7)

403 Oh, COOgarUk get real. Would you honestly care about Iraq if say, Brazil had gone to war with Iraq? The answer to that would be NO and neither would the rest of the world care. The only reason you people complain about Iraq is because it is America and you love to whine about America.

Posted by: mart at October 13, 2004 04:13 AM (ct1pz)

404 mart, perhaps they care because it is the UK there as well?

Oh I forgot you lot are taught that you won ww2 as well in all the John Waynes films!!
It was us who broke the Enigma codes!

Posted by: Oh_Dear at October 13, 2004 04:17 AM (4YWe7)

405 ive read sum of your comments and seen the video which has awoken the deep anger i feel for spineless revolting excuses for human beings go on about american imprisonment of women f**K OFF they treat women worse than they ever can here in britan ken biglys memorial photo candels and bits were stoleen from mosque these pices of shit are here to lapping it up in britan if inocents like ken can be beheaded i can take to the streets and video and behead supposedly innocent muslims just to vent this anger i am by no means racest of mentaly unbalenced for those that feel they need to rattle a sabre for my comments i see wastes of human vessels all the time and keep ya stab in the dark comments about the ira in ya fantisys they wernt funded by america wtf listen to ya self we walk outa iraq were fucked nukelear materials are moveing accross the border this is a hatered snowball with only one answer kill all excuses for humans instead of leting me hear save our women for us to r**e and degrade against there holy book behead which is against the book god does not walk in what u do u fucks i would personaly behead all of u scum that stood behind ken and id post the vid all over the world these extremeist mentaly unstable delusional need to be destroyed full stop no negotiations no bartering kill them all and this hatred was brought to u by all ive seen so far im a dad and a nice fair human being but look at what this shit makes me feel and want to carry out ** FOOTNOTE TO SPECIAL FORCES U KNOW WHO THEY ARE GO AND DEAL WITH IT SLAGHTER ALL OF THEM AND THERE ASSOICATES JUST BLEED THEM BEFORE THEY DO THE SAME

Posted by: paul lawlor at October 13, 2004 04:21 AM (2n9iH)

406

No, as a matter of fact we're were taught that naive Europeans sat back for years and allowed a man like Hitler to grow out of control and then believed they could prevent war by appeasing him, which of course they couldn't and America lost many men because of a war we didn't cause and was not ours to fight.

America cared about going to the Falklands but we didn't whine about the British.

Posted by: mart at October 13, 2004 05:09 AM (ct1pz)

407 Oh Liam, you poor little boy, regarding your last post, a contradiction don't you think? "can't people just get along" and "well Bush and Blair, could do with a few beatings". I am sorry Rusty, I will endeavour to remain objective with my future observations.

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 05:35 AM (hAUpa)

408 Inevitably when we come across such an awful event, especially when the victim involved received so much press coverage before his murder, we feel incredibly angry.

But don't forget that these murderers are prepared to commit these atrocities because they themselves have perhaps lost all their families or loved ones to US or British bombing etc - hate breeds hate.

That said, there is no justification for cold blooded murder. Rest in peace Ken.

Posted by: Miles at October 13, 2004 05:59 AM (fIA3a)

409 Why don't you do the world a favour Vamp and go play in traffic???

Posted by: to vamp at October 13, 2004 07:10 AM (Yy+MP)

410 The so-called liberal left, whatever that means, would not have been able to use the Ken Bigley execution for political point-scoring, had Britain and America used legal means to overthrow Saddam instead of creating the platform on which the terrorists could perform their atrocities.

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 08:25 AM (sG2S6)

411 PAUL: Who decides what's legal?

Posted by: greyrooster at October 13, 2004 09:12 AM (bULCA)

412 I'm begining to wonder about this guy PAUL. Is he now saying we should stick our noses in Africa and the rest of the 3rd world? I thought he was bitching because we stuck our noses in Iraq? Paul are becoming just another jealous America hater like COUGARUK AKA TURKEYUK?

Posted by: greyrooster at October 13, 2004 09:33 AM (bULCA)

413 No No, greyrooster, the point about Africa was that we, US; UK and other rich countries, should right the third-world debt off. Al-Qaeda spread their vicious hatred in the most poorest regions of the world, against us in the west. Recruiting for al-Qaeda and their ilk, is easy for them, when they go to these places and say 'yeah, the reason why you are poor and poverished, is because of countries such as the US and UK, are milking you of everything', such as the third world debt. So greyrooster I wasn't suggesting that we "stick our noses in Africa", whatever that means. We have to look at a bigger picture to attempt to solve the problems we now find ourselves in.

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 09:59 AM (sG2S6)

414 people looking for god,have found man made religion instead.

Posted by: tony boyle at October 13, 2004 10:10 AM (dFrhP)

415 BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS PROCUCTION.
What they said then:

In Feburary 2003, Jack Straw said "it is clear that the regime continued to hold vast stocks of deadly weaponry." George Bush in his State of the Union address in January 2003 spoke of "several mobile weapons laboratries" mobilised by Saddam Hussein.

WHAT THEY SAY NOW.
Mr Straw yesterday informed parliament a line of reporting that produced claims about Iraqi production of biological agent should be withdrawn. The Butler report had criticised the reporting of the liaison service as "seriously flawed." The same service produced the claim about mobile germ laboratories.

CONNECTION BETWEEN SADDAM AND AL-QAEDA.
What they said then:

British intelligence was always wary of the US claim of co-operation between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. US Vice president Dick Cheney, highlighted a purported meeting between the lead hijacker of 9/11 attacks and an Iraqi agent. Another link was highlighted by the US Secretary of State, Colin Powell, in Febuary 2003.

WHAT THEY SAY NOW:
Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, admitted last week that "to my knoeledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two." He subsequenly backtracked, saying that his comments had been "misunderstood."

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 11:11 AM (X7O+g)

416 IRAQ: RAW POWER IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR BRITISH MORAL AUTHORITY.

Britains moral authority in the world has been undermined by our participation in the invasion of Iraq. My only quibble would be on the degree to which Blair should be singled out for individual responsibility.
As some people on this blog have pointed out, the roots of our military engagement in the Middle East go back a long way. Surely the most cowardly episode was our conniving in Saddam's use of chemical weapons against Iran and his own people. What is new, and what it took the genius of Bin Laden to provoke, is the overt nature of the current venture and the stripping aside of any pretense at legality.
The danger noe is that devoid of moral authority we will become all the more dependent on force rather than argument or negotiation in settling international disputes, thus instigating a vicious downward spiral. The more we portray our enemies as beyond the pale of humanity the more we will appear to them in the same light.
We may comfort ourselves in our vastly superior strength, but therein is our weakness-a weakness the enemy has finally learnt to exploit. If by some chance the very enormity of the current crisis should serve to awaken us from our idolatrous infatuation with power, then surely our response should one be of profound gratitude.

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 11:33 AM (X7O+g)

417 Rusty, Vamp has managed to squirm his way back on your site again.

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 11:41 AM (X7O+g)

418 mart, I think you've got a point there...would the Brits even be posting on this blog had Blair not agreed to support the US troops? Probably not! It's because it involves THEM that they now give a shit! They are afraid THEY may have to fight and risk getting killed or hurt.

Different story when it involves your country, eh? Maybe the other poster's right as well...get the hell out of Iraq, and let them do what they want with their own country, we've got our own problems right here to solve.

If the Iraqi's want peace and freedom so badly, why don't they leave their country (like our European ancestors did) for a better life somewhere else? Then, all that would remain are the insurgents and terrorists....hmmm, maybe then the way would be clear to NUKE THE TERRORISTS once all the civilians are gone!

Posted by: Laura at October 13, 2004 11:46 AM (ptOpl)

419 Laura, why are your comments sweeping statements and generalisations? It is worth alway's to support your statements. Stick to facts and come up with an argument, then I myself would respect what you have to say. What would your measured response be, to my last two entries here on Rusty's sight?

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 12:06 PM (X7O+g)

420 I said it before, just because WMD weren't found in Iraq, this doesn't mean they don't exist. Another poster said this as well, so don't attack me unless you attack him too for his comments.

Yes there is most definitely a connection bet. Saddam and Al Qaeda and Iraq and Al Qaeda. Zarqawi's in Iraq and has orchestrated the beheadings, he trained in Afgahnistan with the Al Qaeda, was wounded and treated in a hospital catering to Al Qaeda members.

Saddam is a modern day Hitler...thousands of mass graves have been unearthed, this was on the news last night. a woman was clutching her baby in her arms as they both were killed.

I believe all the terrorists, no matter where they're from originally, have ties to Al Qaeda. They all believe in Allah and will kill in his name.

These are sadistic, evil human beings (and I use the word loosely) yet you all continue to put me right there with the terrorists, because human nature being what it is, I wish harm to those that have harmed my loved ones.

Do you really think a peaceful sit down is the answer to conquering this war on terrorism? Has Japan bothered us since we dropped the bomb on them?

We could give a warning to the civilians to get out before we do anything, but then that would just give the terrorists time to leave as well? I don't know what the solution is either, but sitting down at a long table discussing this isn't going to solve the problem. They don't want to discuss anything, they are hell bent on the destruction of us.

Posted by: Laura at October 13, 2004 01:46 PM (ptOpl)

421 Mart, you seem to have overlooked the small fact that USA didn't get involved in WWII until after she herself was attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbour.

American self-interest playing its part once again.

I have no idea what you meant by your reference to the Falkland Islands. Argentina invaded, UK sent a task force half way around the world and booted them out. All over in a matter of weeks. And we sunk the sole surviving battle cruiser from Pearl Harbour in the process!

And someone on here has the gall to suggest that I am jealous of the USA. Not alot to be jealous of from where I am standing!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 02:05 PM (IsxXP)

422 Laura wrote:-

"We could give a warning to the civilians to get out before we do anything, "

BRILLIANT idea! And just where would they go exactly? Maybe America would consider taking them in?

Do you EVER actually THINK before 'putting pen to paper'?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 02:10 PM (IsxXP)

423 My heart goes out to the families of the beheaded.Its truly repulsive. However if we were to hear each and every tragic story behind every Iraqian victim including children and get full live coverage of how good, innocent and loved they were, only to see them blown to pieces by our forces, then maybe we would see things differently. Personally Id like to see Bush and Blairs stupid smirks knocked off of their faces. Terrorism will never stop especially when the world watches what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians and does nothing. Ironic really, have they forgotten how their folk were treated back in Deutschland?

Posted by: Gitane at October 13, 2004 02:16 PM (BeXul)

424 Shut up Laura, you really talk a lod of BULL.

Posted by: Gitane at October 13, 2004 02:24 PM (BeXul)

425 Shut up Laura, you really talk a load of BULL.

Posted by: Gitane at October 13, 2004 02:25 PM (BeXul)

426 I too saw the pictures of the mass graves and was equally disgusted.

What a pity then that at the time hose atrocities were taking place, America sat back and did nothing.

Those poor Iraqis were unfortunate that they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. What a pity that they were suffereing their fate prior to 9/11 taking place.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 02:43 PM (IsxXP)

427 COOgarUK can you stop bashing America long enough to even talk about anything else? What the fuck did YOUR country do when those atrocities were going on? Now you're really pissing me off which is probably your intent.

I think Rusty should take off all you people from the UK that are so hell bent in bashing the Americans. If you don't like us, get the fuck off this AMERICAN BLOG and go start your own discussion somewhere on a blog where only Uk's go to meet.

Your hatred of America is evident...and you dare lambast ME for hating the Middle East?

If I am so stupid and so ignorant about foreign affairs, according to your perceptions and those of your UK chums, then why are you continuing to have "discussions" with me? That would make you just as "stupid and ignorant" as me!

If I don't know what I'm talking about then go talk to someone else and ignore my comments as well.

Your hatred of the US is on the same level as those here from the Mid East spewing their hatred of us, so Rusty should delete your asses as well.

Posted by: Laura at October 13, 2004 02:55 PM (ptOpl)

428 Qué hijos de puta son. Búsquenlos y cortenle el
cuello a ellos también.

Posted by: FRANCISCO at October 13, 2004 03:07 PM (pPURz)

429 We need to send Apache Helicopters into their fucking Mosques where they hide and kill every last Iraqy motherfucker. Yes that's the price of war. These evil motherfuckers behead an innocent human in manner worse then you would kill a lamb or pig. These videos should be on network news so all liberals could see what we are up against.

Posted by: lou at October 13, 2004 03:08 PM (hAyBy)

430 Scroll up people, and read what "John" wrote as options in Iraq. I agree with him, yet you all keep flaming me! I think w should get out of Iraq, and let them to themselves.

The people can leave, just like our European ancestors did...go to another country that is safe...DO something about it. My ancestors got on a boat for many weeks, sacrificing, shoulder to shoulder with other immigrants looking for a place to live freely, without dictatorship, and to find a job and support their families. The fammily members that stayed behind, were never to be seen again.

If they can't take care of themselves, why should we? That's the problem with America, we feel too sorry for other countries, when we have our own problems here...poverty, homelessness, health care issues, lack of insurance, and so on. Sure, it's a humanitarian thing to want to help others, and that's ok, but start with yourselves first.

God helps those that help themselves. And if anyone says I only say that because I am lucky to live in America and go to Disneyland, blah, blah, blah, let me remind you that I was raised in the poorest section of NYC and survived, got an education, had ambition, and now own my own home, car, pool, have 3 sons in a wonderful area of Texas. Far cry from the south Bronx, eh? It can happen, if people can rise up from the rut.

Posted by: Laura at October 13, 2004 03:16 PM (ptOpl)

431 It was all about OIL and put down as WMD then the excuse of Liberation came AFTERWARDS!!!
Not about HELPING ANYBODY...

HELLO? LAURA ANYBODY AT HOME??????????

Posted by: Oh_Dear at October 13, 2004 03:19 PM (8g7ID)

432 Temper temper Laura

Oh I see... this is an AMERICAN blog. And there was me thinking it was discussing the situation in Iraq, with particular parlance to one Ken Bigley, a BRITISH hostage who was brutally murdered.

Yeah, delete everyone from the UK, particularly those who are winning an argument that they cannot lose, as they have truth on their side. Since when did America have any concern for free speech anyway? Delete me. Sweep the truth under the carpet. Bush is very adept at that that.

As for me being an American-hater, you simply don't get it, do you? Yes, I have responded to several comments made by arrogant narrow-minded Americans on here, but I don't see how that makes me an American-hater.

And as for America caring too mush for people throughout the world, well that must be your biggest faux pas to date. If hat is the case, perhaps you could tell me why American keeps BOMBING all these people it supposedly cares too much for?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 03:25 PM (IsxXP)

433 Amazing how on the one hand I am an American-hating Muslim-loving terrorist, and on the other I am a namby-pamby do-nothing Liberal. Both American viewpoints, I might add. Any excuse to avoid the truth it seems.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 03:30 PM (IsxXP)

434 I am just writing to Laura to not mention that she is soooooooooooo lucky to live in America, Disneyland, blah blah etc. Im so envious, especially of the blah blah..but then again I didnt mention it,

Posted by: Alfie Moon at October 13, 2004 03:42 PM (BeXul)

435 "arrogant, narrow minded Americans"...maybe not hatred, but a biases opinion, nonetheless. Yeah, Rusty's an AMERICAN and this is HIS home...case closed.

IF Blair didn't lead your namby pamby soldiers into Iraq, you wouldn't even be talking about Iraq! Only because you are so against his involvement in Iraq, are you taking any interest whatsoever in the discussions.

Bombing people we care for? No, just trying to snuff out the enemy. You say you don't blame the terrorists for their actions because America invaded their country...illegally I might add. HELLO??? WE didn't start this THEY did, a looong time ago....gosh, I have to keep repeating myself to a bunch of children....

Wait till your country gets invaded, your views may change rather drastically.

Posted by: Laura at October 13, 2004 03:55 PM (ptOpl)

436 Laura, In my view, you are still making huge generalisations and sweeping statements. Yes you have a right to express how you feel, however, please try to support what you are trying to say, perhaps, this is the reason why nobody takes you seriously. Try to be objective and not subjective. I understand your anger, but sit down, think about what you want to say with the above in mind, and if I agree with you, then I will say so. I look forward to your response.

Posted by: paul at October 13, 2004 04:31 PM (86sC5)

437 I didn't mention Pearl Harbor because it wasn't relevant to what I was saying. First COOgarUk, you complain because America didn't "meddle" in WW2 earlier, when that war was caused by European stupidity and not our war to fight but then you turn around and complain that we are "meddling" in Iraq or elsewhere. Make up your mind.---Also, you say Americans on here will do anything to avoid the truth, and what truth is that???lol

Posted by: mart at October 13, 2004 05:02 PM (mR349)

438 Is it me or is Laura flirting with the website owner to get special favours?
She is so far up his arse she can't smell her own shit.

Posted by: American_Intelligence_an_oxymoron at October 13, 2004 05:28 PM (FE/He)

439 "You say you don't blame the terrorists for their actions"

Oh? And when exactly did I say that? Now you have to resort to libel to try and get your invalid points across.

You stupid, stupid (so stupid I have to call you it twice) woman

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 05:55 PM (do76h)

440 What else could you mean, when you said we illegally invaded their country, so what do you expect them to do? So big shit, maybe I didn't quote EXACT words, but that is what you've alluded to....you don't agree on the Iraq invasion, and are sticking up for the Iraqi people who may just happen to be in the way while we are defending ourselves against the terrorists....common in all wars, not just this one.

Again if I am so stupid and ignorant, why do you continue to discuss this with me? Move on to someone else, someone, in your opinion, who's more intelligent. You Brits have state run TV, and are more oblivious to the "truth"....you keep mentioning the truth, what IS the truth, and what are the lies that our govt. is feeding us??? Oh, about the WMD? Hmmmm, Saddam is a good pack rat...hid them well, I'm afraid.

Make your argument with Blair and email HIM, since you are so against his alliance with the US on the Iraq situation. Isn't that all this is about?

You wouldn't give TWO SHITS if your country had not become involved! And your country hasn't been invaded...YET...so who are YOU to talk? America has the right to defend itself and find the enemy, no matter where they may hide....

Posted by: Laura at October 13, 2004 06:04 PM (ptOpl)

441 FUCK THESE SAND NIGGERS. FUCK YOU LIB'S TOO. THEY WILL FOR WHAT THEY DID TO THE TOWERS. WE WILL NEVER FORGET. I CAME BACK FROM IRAQ AND THOSE PEOPLE HATE US, WE GOT ATTACKED FROM THE CIVILIANS WE TRIED TO HELP, SO FUCK THEM AND THEIR COUNTRY. WE WERE ONLY TRYING TO HELP.

HOPE BUSH GETS RE ELECTED AND PUSHES THE BUTTON AFTER HE WINS.....

Posted by: nuke-em-now at October 13, 2004 06:10 PM (ptOpl)

442 "you complain because America didn't "meddle" in WW2 earlier"

No I didn't. Another case of libel. Why is it you Americans cannot seem to get your facts straight?

Let me spell it out for you (again)... I stated (FACT) that America didn't enter WWII until it suited its own self-interests. Not once did I complain about America "meddling" in Europe.

Another FACT... America only got interested insaving the Iraqi people from the evil Saddam regime (that is not under dispute) until it perceived (totally wrongly as it happens - not a shred of evidence to support it) Iraq as a threat to its own national security.

I repeat... The US-led invasion of Iraq was ILLEGAL and the reasons it put forward for starting the war (you listening Laura? America STARTED the war) were based on misinformation at best, total lies at worst. America has changed its mind over the justification for invading Iraq at least three times, and each excuse after the other has proved to be based upon total fabrication:-

1) Iraq posed and immediate threat to the West - WRONG!

2) Iraq possessed stockpiles of WMDs - WRONG

3) Iraq has direct links with Al-Qa'ida - WRONG (as recently admitted by your own defence secretary)

Those are the FACTS Laura, as supported by the evidence (or in the case of justification for the war, lack of it)

History will ultimately judge the actions of the US on this issue, and I don't think it will find in your favour.

George W Bush has done more to de-stabalise the Middle-East and promote the cause for terrorism than any other World leader in living memory.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 06:11 PM (do76h)

443 "You Brits have state run TV"

No we don't! Laura talks out of her arse once again

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 06:17 PM (do76h)

444 "I CAME BACK FROM IRAQ AND THOSE PEOPLE HATE US, WE GOT ATTACKED FROM THE CIVILIANS WE TRIED TO HELP, SO FUCK THEM AND THEIR COUNTRY. WE WERE ONLY TRYING TO HELP."

Hmmmm. Maybe, just maybe, they don't consider an illegal invasion of their sovereign territory by a nation with more WMDs than the rest of the world put together to be very helpful. Ever considered that?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 06:20 PM (do76h)

445 Those are the facts. Okay. Those are YOUR facts. I don't care WHO stated what...then you admit you are going by what you read and what you watch on tv as well then? Do you have anyone in the military directly involved in this war or any other involving the MId East? I do and they all say this started long before the invasion of Iraq. Even before Bush Sr. iT STARTED WITH AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI AND PICKED UP SPEED SINCE THEN.

All the other disasters, '93 bombing of the WTC, USS Cole, Embassy in Africa....how can Bush be responsible for that? And these terrorists are BEHEADING THEIR OWN PEOPLE!!!!!!!!! What has that got to do with our invasion? You are attacking our country, Mr. UK, I have YET to say anything about YOURS.

Like I said, the ONLY REASON you are angry is because now YOUR country is directly involved, you're mad at Blair for this...leave us alone!

YOu Brits seem to think you are better than everyone else and call the Americans stupid. Who's showing their lack of intelligence now? I never once said anything against the Brits until you started to insult me.

Disagree all you want, but leave your insults at home. This has turned into a personal war for you, and I'd just as soon let it drop and just discuss our views without lashing out and calling people stupid.

The facts are only straight when they're YOURS. I haven't seen you agree with anyone on this blog, that is when you are not attacking me with your comments.

Hell, I'm going to cook dinner and get a life...hope you do too.

Posted by: Laura B. at October 13, 2004 06:22 PM (ptOpl)

446 Then you have just insulted Rusty the owner of the house! That was a direct quote from him, in a message to ME. hahah. Shows how ignorant you really are, thinking I made that up!

Posted by: Laura B. at October 13, 2004 06:24 PM (ptOpl)

447 "then you admit you are going by what you read and what you watch on tv as well then?"

Nope, I didn't say that either. I simply refuted your allegation that the UK has state-run TV.

And as it happens, you have had plenty to say about the UK. One only has to scroll up to confirm that.

You say that you would rather let it drop. FACT is, that is yet another lie, because you keep this debate alive time and time again.

As for Americans being stupid, well I make no comment. I do admit to calling YOU stupid, it does seem that there are many people posting on this thread - including Americans - who seem to support that view.

Enjoy your dinner. I am going to bed. What a shame that by the time I awake, the world will be even less safe, all because of the actions of one stupid American.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 06:31 PM (do76h)

448 Laura

The difference between 'my' FACTS and 'your' facts is that mine are supported by evidence and yours are exposed by the lack of it.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 06:34 PM (do76h)

449 "Then you have just insulted Rusty the owner of the house! That was a direct quote from him, in a message to ME. hahah. Shows how ignorant you really are, thinking I made that up!"

Now wtf are you on about?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 13, 2004 06:35 PM (do76h)

450 COOgarUK, your arrogant ignorance is laughable. No, we didn't enter WW2 to suit our interests, we entered because we were attacked. Everybody acts in their own interests, including the UK. Anyway, you missed my point entirely but you don't get it so I'll let it pass.

COOgarUK as far as FACTS, Laura is right, those are YOUR facts. You have to go by facts AND common sense.
The US war with Iraq was NOT illegal. FACT--Hussein has had WMD's and he used them on his own people. The intelligence networks of several nations, including the UK and others all said that he had WMD's including chemicals or was trying to get them.
COMMON SENSE--Looking at Hussein's past abuses, his failure to comply with the UN, the chances that he stopped making WMD's secretly or at least trying to get his hands on WMD's or chemicals is extremely low.
FACT-WMD's were not found.
Common sense-Hussein knew the Americans were coming and had plenty of time to get rid of the evidence as he is not stupid enough to leave them lying around.
FACT-It is unknown whether Iraq was a direct threat to the West.
Common Sense--He likely was a threat to the West. Once again due to his hatred of the USA and his past behavior and his links to terrorism.
Fact-Hussein did have links to terrorist groups and trained terrorists in his country. There are many different terrorist groups besides Al-Queda.
Common Sense-He was most likely funding them too.
Fact-The USA was interested in Iraq because it felt it to be a threat now or in the future based on a mixture of evidence and probability and as such made a preemptive strike, which if you Europeans had done with Hitler, might have saved 60 million lives.

Posted by: mart at October 13, 2004 07:25 PM (mR349)

451 Thank you, mart. CoogarUK, I meant let the insults drop, not the discussion, sheesh.

Posted by: Laura B. at October 13, 2004 07:46 PM (ptOpl)

452 F OFF UK WE WERE NOT THERE TO INVADE THE CIVILIANS...THEY GREETED US WITH OPEN ARMS AT FIRST, THEN SPIT UPON US AND OPENLY ATTACKED US AND TURNED ON US. WE WERE SENT THERE TO FIGHT FOR THEM AND GIVE THEM THEIR FREEDOM. THAT'S THE THANKS WE GET.

WE HELPED MANY PEOPLE WHILE WE WERE THERE, HOW THE FUCK DO YOU COME OFF JUST MOUTHING OFF SHIT, WHEN YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE? CHICKEN SHIT LIMEY'S ALL OF YOU.

YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THE IRAQI'S AND SCREW AMERICA, BLAIR AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT DON'T AGREE WITH YOU.

STICK YOUR VIEWS UP YOUR OWN "ARSE" AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION, IT IS CALLED "ASS" IN THIS COUNTRY.

Posted by: nuke-em-now at October 13, 2004 08:44 PM (ptOpl)

453 I make a point to watch every video. Not because I get some sick thrill out of it. I watch to remind myself how barbaric this enemy (ie muslims) can be. And to honor the victim. Closing your eyes, will not make the enemy go away. Watch the video, and remember!

Posted by: Princess Kimberley at October 13, 2004 11:16 PM (0UhEm)

454 God Bless the bigley family and Briton in its time of morning, I really hoped he would make it. He looked so tired and I know he went through hell the weeks before his death.. I was realieved to see he did not suffer as long as Mr. Armstrong, I will never get over that video, those images of him screaming and gaging seem to go on forever in my mind. They wanted us to hear Mr. Armstrong , there wasn't any chanting in that video, My husband returns to Iraq next month for another year, we are going to get those idiots, that is plain to see, the cowards that have to hide and kill innocent people...we are gonna get you , you will run out of places in baghdad to hide..........and we know you like to hide in holes in the ground...you cowards!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: militarywife at October 13, 2004 11:36 PM (TpKDV)

455 Hey CoogarUk, aka turkeyuk
are you still on here trying to sound intelligent...what degree was that you have?? you never would tell me on the armstrong comment page.........
I can't believe you are on here picking on Laura and others, just goes to show you are only on here to bother people, let it be american or anyone...

get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 13, 2004 11:43 PM (TpKDV)

456 end all this racism,,,,,,the world is full of beautiful countries and people, and America is made up of all of them.........
we are just free and we like to be free and it would be nice if one of you others would say one good thing about us for a change,
Mr. Bigley's death was not America's fault, the terrorist have been doing this to their own people as well as other innocents all over the world,,,,,,,,,
The bad thing is , television doesn't show all the iraqi's that are happy we are there and no I don't agree with the killing of innocent Iraqi's either by war or our invasion......but in every price for freedom there are casualties, since time began in every country!!!!!!!!!!!It is time we all came together, not continue to cut eachother down,,,,,,,,,People are born into circumstance; education and a little help are the only things that can teach them that life can be better, they deserve better......all people deserve a chance to be free,
I love America, I don't agree with all the crime and vanity and I do wish those things could be changed, I agree with all of you there......but we do help others...
God Bless us all and Mr. Bigley's family
God bless Briton

Posted by: madarmywife at October 13, 2004 11:57 PM (TpKDV)

457 I don't need American help with my spelling, thank you very much. Your imperialism isn't working in Iraq, it's hardly likely to have much of an influence on me, is it?

On the subject of personal insults, I've had to endure more than most on here. However, they don't bother me that much, because I do not feel as insecure as alot of the Americans on here.

And if it's comparisons to Hitler you want (illegal invasions, etc.) I'd take a look closer to home if I were you.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 12:38 AM (0rTP/)

458 "Mr. Bigley's death was not America's fault,"

Not America's fault. No, of course not. However it did occur as a direct consequence of America's illegal occupation.

How many westerners were being beheaded in Iraq prior to America's illgeal invasion?

"The bad thing is , television doesn't show all the iraqi's that are happy we are there"

Hmmm, I wonder why that is?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 12:45 AM (0rTP/)

459 Nobody on here is "insecure." The only reason you've had personal insults directed your way is that you are rude. You're one of these types that have a tiring, predictable knee-jerk anti-American reaction to everything . I mean if a tital wave hit Fiji, it would all be America's fault according to your ilk. The truth is, despite your snide know-it-all attitude, you really fail to see the big picture. Islamic extremists have one ultimate goal, to subdue the Middle East including moderate Muslims and then the rest of the world under a Taliban-style government. These extremists have said so themselves. It's a war that will have to be fought several different ways(militarily, armed conflict, covert operations, public relations etc.) becasue these extremists form different clandestine groups and organizations spread out all over the world. Like it or not, the Western world is in a religious war that Islamic extemists have declared upon them. As many extremist Muslims that the UK and Europe have unwittingly let in , they are going to have real problems in the future so if I were you COOgarUK, I'd get my head out of the sand and start realizing who my real enemy is instead of sitting around whining about the US.

Posted by: mart at October 14, 2004 04:25 AM (tjcO/)

460 military wife, God bless your husband, who will soon return to fight Iraq.

madarmywife, thanks for your support.

mart, you are a breath of fresh air, thank you also for your comments, finally, someone who sees reason and discusses the debate in an adult manner, w/o insults.

What gets me, is that people keep saying WMD were NOT found, Saddam is not linked to terrorists, and we invaded Iraq "illegally"...those are all assumptions, Saddam indeed is linked and WMD weren't found, that doesn't mean they don't exist...how many times do I have to say this?

The terrorists have beheaded their own people, for chrissakes! What would that have to do with anything, even if we had invaded them illegally? What is their excuse for killing their own then?

We can go on and on and on, and nothing will stop the bleeding heart lib's on this blog from saying it's Bush's fault. We can argue these points till the war is over(for eternity) and we will never get anyone to agree with us.

So, say what you may, WE know the truth (and the truth has yet to be explained to me, at least the other's version of the truth anyway!).

War is most certainly hell, this enemy is invincible, we must look everywhere for them, be it Afghani, Iraq, Iran. This is not the first war where "innocents" have been killed (not on purpose, but in the struggle to find the enemy) and it most certainly won't be the last.

Posted by: Laura at October 14, 2004 08:49 AM (ptOpl)

461 In my view, the US has double standards. For example, as John Kerry suggested, how can other countries take America seriously when it says to Iran "you cannot have nuclear weapons" oh but by the way, we are producing "smart battlefield nuclear weapons". Perhaps this is one element, why other countries get frustrated with the US.
I would consider, that America needs to listen more; show humility; resulting in more allies and respect so therefore, can again become a 'beacon' of hope that many nations viewed America to be before the ilegal war in Iraq. This is only an observation from me, an induvidual. It would be interesting to see if Laura can actualy be objective enough to LISTEN what a non-American has to say.

Posted by: paul at October 14, 2004 12:56 PM (fqCYH)

462 This world sucks!!!
Have we all become totally idiots??. Guess it's about time for the armageddon and that the good ones may survive.

Posted by: Jos at October 14, 2004 01:22 PM (7sKXQ)

463 I feel for Tony Blair - negotiating with the captors would have been beyond stupid - how many people would they threaten to behead next time? How many more demands would be made if it was thought that we had a terrorist friendly policy?

And to be honest - Ken Bigley was earmarked for execution from the beginning. I feel that these men had no intention of ever letting him go -what kind of a fluffly demand is letting women hostages go, especially when it was known Britain doesn't have any.

These people want to drum up support for their own cause and make the West look bad. It is scare mongering at its absolute worst, in which the bastards can claim unfair treatment of women in the process, just to get those extra votes.

It saddens that people like this give Islam a bad name. There are many bad people from all religions, but all islamic people are in danger of being tarred with the same brush.

How are we even to fight a force which has no regard for life? How are we to understand people who are prepared to give up their own lives in order to hurt us? islamic fundamentalists work on such a strong and absolute faith, a way of life, which is alien to us. As long as there continues to be such faith, there will continue to be such extremists.

Posted by: sarah at October 14, 2004 01:40 PM (Rqwvs)

464 Knee-jerk reaction? Pot, kettle, black: what do you think America's illegal invasion of Irag was if not a knee-jerk reaction?

I do not consider America my enemy, in fact I am far less anti-American than you think and as I come across on here.

I do however consider America to be a very real threat to world peace.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 01:43 PM (BYald)

465 Laura srikes again...

"military wife, God bless your husband, who will soon return to fight Iraq."

Fight Iraq?! But I thought we are supposed to be helping Iraq.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 01:45 PM (BYald)

466 "mart, you are a breath of fresh air, thank you also for your comments, finally, someone who sees reason and discusses the debate in an adult manner, w/o insults."

What she really means is one of the few on here who agrees with her and doesn't think she is a complete fruitcake (obviously hasn't read enough of her posts)


And in the same sentence:-

"What gets me, is that people keep saying WMD were NOT found...WMD weren't found, that doesn't mean they don't exist...how many times do I have to say this?"

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 01:49 PM (BYald)

467 Well said, Paul.

And well said, Sarah... PLEASE be American!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 01:52 PM (BYald)

468 Iraq attacks Kuwait, so America attacks Iraq. Osama or Saddam or was it Ghaddafi or even Arafat commanded the attack on two towers, so America attacks Afghanistan, doesnt find who its looking for and decides to finish the job of Papa Bush and gets Saddam. OOps, wrong one, Osama is still out there and he may be living in a cave but obviously still has more power than Bush or Blair holding hands. Americans are always sticking their noses into wars that are beneficial to them and since 9/11 go on all the time about being invaded.....I dont think so (sorry, there was Pearl Harbour but I think you got even after that) I dont wish it upon you but you have no idea what invaded really means.

Posted by: Rule Britannia at October 14, 2004 02:00 PM (uRNXF)

469 Sanity prevails at last! Though not for long I fear...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 02:30 PM (BYald)

470 UK VOTERS BACK KERRY: POLL

British voters would choose John Kerry over George Bush by a matgin of more than two to one if they had a vote in the US presidential election.

The survey, published in The Guardian newspaper, was part of a poll in 10 countries around the world.

Voters in France, Canada, Australia, Japan, Spain, South Kprea and Mexico also backed Democrat Kerry, with only Israel and Russia preferring Bush.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 02:40 PM (BYald)

471 Typos above:-

For matgin read margin and for Kprea read Korea.

Further, and although I sincerely hope that it does not happen but feel it is inevitable, where might the terrorists strike in the lead-up to the American elections?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 02:44 PM (BYald)

472 The reason that I think many Americans have a deep sense of insecurity is due to ythe fact that although they are taught that their country is a mighty superpower (which no doubt it is) this does not make it any less vulnerable to attack than anyone else. Sorry folks, you're not as invincible as you once thought... 9/11 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 14, 2004 02:50 PM (BYald)

473 Sir's and Madam's, Give more members of the United Nations the power of the veto? Heaven forbid!
Time and again we have seen the veto used by the Americans to thwart UN majority wishes. America is now the only superpower and its corrupted absolutely by such power. Better that the power of the veto were abolished in order that the will of the majority prevail.

Posted by: paul at October 14, 2004 02:56 PM (h7G08)

474 In my view, a Kerry win next year could bring new allies and Iraqi elections next year could do much to legitimise the post-Saddam state. But none of this is certain. While debate in Britain remains transfixed by the past, Iraq's future is being over-looked. Yet for our Prime Minister answering questions about how the war in Iraq will end could soon prove far harder than avoiding questions about how it began. Mr Blair made a mistake. One day he may even say sorry for it. But today he feels no regret and refuses to feign it. He may devoutly hope that people should "move on". But, with Iraq in daily flames, it is futile to wish for closure on the issue of the prime minister's judgment. A judgment of trust, perhaps our American friends, should consider their leader's judgments too.

Posted by: paul at October 14, 2004 03:22 PM (h7G08)

475 COOGARUK,,,is a westerners life more meaningful than an Iraqi child or human being being slaugtered daily and thrown into a mass grave? Does it matter what nationality you are that you are beaten and beheaded? NO IT DOES NOT! Where have you been? The terrorist have been at work for years all over the world. So your saying America's invasion of Iraq is what caused the terrorist to torture and behead westerners just because they were there, the infidels that are meant to die....are you not an infidel, do you not think they would kill you as you sit there on your computer in Briton, would you not want America's help? or your own prime minister's? By the way George Bush will win the election, you speak of arrogant, well Mr. Kerry is very arrogant, the perfect object to the type of American you describe daily on here with you never using insults of course....

I have to admit, I like you coogaruk, you make me laugh and I look forward to what you write, you even have some good points....

God Bless Tony Blair and George Bush give them strength to stand bravely before all the couch potatos of the world.....

Posted by: madarmywife at October 14, 2004 08:45 PM (BTOBb)

476 Paul,
I respect your comments and opinions, and I can understand what you are saying most of the time, Iraq is in flames because we are taking away one of the hiding places and homes of terrorist, some of the people are fighting because they are afraid not to, all they know is control and threat, do as I say or die, just as our president said, freedom is the only way to fight terrorism, it will be a long process but it will be worth it, patience does not seem to be a quality of many on here, "it is always darkest before the dawn" things are very bad over there, but we are getting the trash out, they are running, they don't have it made like they used to, the terrorist...........we will go after the terrorist and all who harbor them and help them....saddam was just that, how can you say we and your prime minister made a mistake, when saddam used chemical weapons on his own people, do you not think if he had taken kuwait and we just ignored that, that he would not have continued further using whatever means he needed?
I would appreciate your response in a kindly manner...
God Bless my husband in Iraq and the british army and american army and their leaders, give them strength to stand when so many are not standing with them....

Posted by: madarmywife at October 14, 2004 09:01 PM (BTOBb)

477 Devo,
If we let everyone fend for themselves, we would all be nuked by now....you have to keep watch, keep little things like nuclear bombs from getting into the wrong hands,,,it would be a lot easier to nuke all of the infidels then cut off one head at a time, don't you think?? Although I agree, we need to treat all equally, I don't understand the North Korea and Iran thing, they admit to having nuclear plants and the means for weapons using such....why are we not going after them? I don't know if there are korean terrorist, does anyone know?

Posted by: madarmywife at October 14, 2004 09:07 PM (BTOBb)

478 All I need to say is that if we want some of this, if ANY of this to change, then GEORGE W. BUSH NEED NOT BE ELECTED AGAIN as President of our country. And the way it looks God-willing he won't win! I beleive there can be a chance to begin the healing if we can start fresh with a new face that EVERYONE OUTSIDE OF THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT HATE WITH A PASSION. Nuking them is not an alternative, this should be resolved as peacefully (now that SOMEONE has taken us to ALL OUT WAR) as possible. If President Kerry can join forces with the rest of the world and create a REAL COALITION OF THE WILLING, the U.S. and other countries EQUALLY involved to try to fix this problem once and for all. I would like to know what all of you here in this forum think could be a possible way of us fixing this problem, without a nuclear weapon or another war, or a continuation of this war for years and years and years.
I think that ofcourse the capture of Zarqawi IS A MUST. Obviously his death, even though it probably wouldn't matter in the larger spectrum of things, would help many people be able to move on in this quest for peace. Then, I believe our new COALITION OF THE WILLING, with the help of truly powerful nations which we must respect and grow to look at as brothers on this planet, should be able to SLOWLY pull out troops, while offering aid, and helping the Iraqis rebuild some form of government (oh, and if democracy doesn't work there, then LET IT BE, there will never be another Saddam, so just let them be! ((as far as government goes that is)) We must help the Iraqis get back to some sort of LIFE. They have none now, war is not life, it's being wasted away. THEN, I think we should be able to slowly pull out, and just let them be, we'll leave them alone, no more beheadings, hopefully terrorism might slow down some (yeah right), BUT WITH A TRUE COALITION, A WORLDWIDE COALITION, maybe we'll be able to combat terror more effectively on world-wide scale, TOGETHER. They can't kill us all, we out-number them, keep your faith, keep strong, read your bibles and pray to your Higher Powers. Remember, this is a Holy War. To them it's always been one, fight back in holy ways, quit all your boo hoo's and angry talk, where did it get you? No where. You're still here, in this same forum, crying about earthly ordeals, WAKE UP! OPEN YOUR EYES! And think of humanity as a whole, we are all just living beings all living together on the same planet. We need to quit thinking so divided. And as far as Bush and Kerry go, for all those Bush-lovers that are mad at my statement at first about Bush, even though he does need to SHUT UP AND GET OUT, let me let you know that I was always a Bush supporter, I've always believed that our country usually ran a little better under conservative guidelines and I still partially believe that. I did vote for George W. Bush in the last election, and I've always been a republican, but don't you see what's happening to our country under this man's rule? Can you not see how this man has an agenda of his own and NOT that of the American people. How ignorant are you to sit there and say he has helped our country in ANY sort of way except making the rich richer and the poor poorer. I am not voting for a political party, I am not voting for republicans or democrats, I AM VOTING FOR WHAT I BELIEVE IS THE BEST CHOICE FOR OUR COUNTRY AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, I AM VOTING FOR AMERICA, I AM VOTING FOR OUR TROOPS THAT WANT NOTHING MORE TO COME HOME, I AM VOTING FOR THE PEACE. Kerry just happens to be running against the one that is putting a hold on all of that, so that is why I am voting for JOHN KERRY as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES. We need to put a stop to all of this, and a start to the stop will be to get Bush OUT OF OFFICE. If not, we may be about to face the next most horrific 4 years of our lives, and I mean on a global-scale, not just the U.S. but everyone.
JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT, I'M TELLING YOU, IT'S A START...

Posted by: Dazed and Concerned at October 14, 2004 10:39 PM (zW0uE)

479 madarmywife

I like you too. I just have opposing opinions (based upon fact). If you think that America is winning in Iraq then I feel you are still believing the dream (based upon lies and misinformation) that you are being fed from your war-mongering government.

If what you say is true, then how are the terrorists not only continuing to evade capture but also managed to bomb the Green Sector (the most heavily guarded of all Iraq) yesterday, not once, but TWICE.

A plea to you and all Americans who continue to support the illegal conflict in Iraq: Open you eyes to what is really happening over there, before it is too late.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 15, 2004 05:00 AM (DP/V+)

480 whats the difference between christopher reeves and O.J. simpson??

O.J. walked and reeves got the electric chair!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Off Topic at October 15, 2004 07:15 AM (cLKus)

481 COOgarUk-We are well aware of the situation and problems in Iraq and if we were war-mongers, we'd keep Iraq for ourselves and be invading Canada(lots of oil) and others as well. As far as being fed lies and misinformation, I believe you don't understand. Our news media in general favors the left point of view so there is no shortage of criticism concerning Bush. I admit this even though I am politically middle of the road. I've seen the British and European news media and I can tell you they too can be quite biased ,especially regarding the USA. I find some Europeans frequently use terms such as "brainwashed" when describing opposing American viewpoints because they can't accept or understand why many Americans see things differently. For the record, Americans don't all think alike anymore than Europeans do. Just my opinion.

Posted by: mart at October 15, 2004 07:27 AM (atlQo)

482 I do agree we are being misinformed by our government on many situations in the war, I don't really think of it as a war against Iraq but a war against terrorism. I don't agree in any way with America being able to go in and take over anyone's country, that is wrong. But the people were abused and saddam did have the power to help terrorist and develop weapons and has as history has proved, but on the other hand, so does North Korea and Iran who laugh in America's face, why shouldn't they? I have a hard time understanding that double standard. I would like to hear all the facts on the oil claim as being why we are there, how much oil to we get from Iraq? I haven't heard anyone say.

I or we don't have a very good choice in the election this year, yes the president has many against him all over the world, he did rush into the war, but like he said and others, no one knew the outcome and mess to come, but it has to be fixed, we can't go back, I like president Bush because he stands up for himself, Kerry says what people want to hear and he uses the hatred for Bush around the world to his gain, and I feel just as he said terrorism is just a nusiance, he doesn't see the threat and seriousness of 9-11, he sees terrorism as a crime equal to prostitution and such as he stated in one of his speeches resently, He has never really outlined a plan that is any different than what Bush is doing to correct the situation, if we had someone running with the answers to it all, I would vote for them that is for sure.....

As far as the situation in Iraq, of course they will continue the resistance, that is their territory and home, they know it better and have been taught how to fight from a very young age, they have no fear of death and see it as a gain, put that up against the arrogantly raised, spoilt to our easy living Americans who fear not just death but the pain that comes with it, of course we will not take it easily, we are taking it only because of technology and better weapons,
before anyone condems me , my husband is a soilder and I was in the Navy, I know how spoilt we are,,,,,,,,,but we are still human and like stated before born into our circumstance. We or some of us are loyal to our leader, that is our downfall, kinda like standing up for a big brother or little sister even though we know they are wrong sometimes, I think all Americans should have to serve in the military for two years after high school...our young people are spoilt and that scares me more than anything, what does the future hold?

God Bless Mr. Bigley's family

Posted by: madarmywife at October 15, 2004 07:45 AM (nV+Zp)

483 Would be invading Canada? LMAO
Iraq has more OIL than anywhere else it is only about OIL economy and POWER!!Plus all those undiscovered Oil wells they are saying that there are .. and now Isral can run the pipe lines that The Taliban stopped them for doing..

Keep Iraq for yourselves??? How would you be able to do that?LMAO ..AHH but you will control who is allowed to be elected and everything else and that is why their are people out their fighting because if Iraq is now liberated (the after excuse)

This is just the beginning... usa controlling Iraq is just not going to happen!!!maybe for a very short while.. maybe.

Posted by: Oh_dear at October 15, 2004 07:49 AM (3j5lz)

484 yeah

Posted by: desmond at October 15, 2004 07:52 AM (Sw9n8)

485 TO Peace and his comment earlier,
This is not about Muslims or any religion, we have many Muslims in America and they are good people, You described all the good things about your Allah, but what about the part that "all Infidels must die" infidels being anyone not of the muslim faith, you did not explain your thoughts there, why would Muslims want to live in the land of the Infidel? that has always puzzled me.

Ps..we bombed Japan not because America is a terrorist, they bombed us first, maybe?

Posted by: madarmywife at October 15, 2004 07:57 AM (nV+Zp)

486 Mart, I agree with your last point wholeheartedly, about not being all the same.

madarmywife, you name isn't Angela, is it? No, it couldn't be else you wouldn't be 'talking' with me. What is the point in fearing death? It will happen to us all eventually. I just hope that when my time comes that it is sudden. I would not wish to endure a long duration of suffering.

And for anyone else who has built up a hatred for me, let me just say that I am simply against America's illegal invasion of Iraq and the mess that has ensued, just like anybody with even a tiny bit of sense knew it would turn out like it has.

I am not a pacifist either. Some wars are just, the latest one in Iraq was not.

I also feel that people like vamp and more recently off_topic should be ashamed of themselves, and that's putting it mildly.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 15, 2004 07:59 AM (k0SFF)

487 was there a problem with getting oil before the invasion from Iraq for America? Seems more of a problem now, the gas prices are sky high....if we had a problem before and that is why we are there, could someone explain the oil theory a little more for me, I really want the facts on this one, seriously I would like to understand this view. Thanks...Tracie

Posted by: madarmywife at October 15, 2004 08:07 AM (nV+Zp)

488 Pearl Harbour.. wasn't that a military base?
Tell me..why an atom bomb on innocent civilians?

Posted by: Oh_dear at October 15, 2004 08:16 AM (3j5lz)

489 It's about MAKING SURE YOU HAVE IT WHEN YOU WANT IT NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH IT WILL COST!

Before the start of the Iraq war his media empire did so much to promote, Rupert Murdoch explained the payoff: "The greatest thing to come out of this for the world economy, if you could put it that way, would be $20 a barrel for oil." Crude oil prices in New York rose to almost $40 a barrel yesterday, a 13-year high.

Those who expected big economic benefits from the war were, of course, utterly wrong about how things would go in Iraq. But the disastrous occupation is only part of the reason that oil is getting more expensive; the other, which will last even if we somehow find a way out of the quagmire, is the intensifying competition for a limited world oil supply.

Thanks to the mess in Iraq - including a continuing campaign of sabotage against oil pipelines - oil exports have yet to recover to their prewar level, let alone supply the millions of extra barrels each day the optimists imagined. And the fallout from the war has spooked the markets, which now fear terrorist attacks on oil installations in Saudi Arabia, and are starting to worry about radicalization throughout the Middle East. (It has been interesting to watch people who lauded George Bush's leadership in the war on terror come to the belated realization that Mr. Bush has given Osama Bin Laden exactly what he wanted.)

Even if things had gone well, however, Iraq couldn't have given us cheap oil for more than a couple of years at most, because the United States and other advanced countries are now competing for oil with the surging economies of Asia.

Oil is a resource in finite supply; no major oil fields have been found since 1976, and experts suspect that there are no more to find. Some analysts argue that world production is already at or near its peak, although most say that technological progress, which allows the further exploitation of known sources like the Canadian tar sands, will allow output to rise for another decade or two. But the date of the physical peak in production isn't the really crucial question.

The question, instead, is when the trend in oil prices will turn decisively upward. That upward turn is inevitable as a growing world economy confronts a resource in limited supply. But when will it happen? Maybe it already has.

I know, of course, that such predictions have been made before, during the energy crisis of the 1970's. But the end of that crisis has been widely misunderstood: prices went down not because the world found new sources of oil, but because it found ways to make do with less.

During the 1980's, oil consumption dropped around the world as the delayed effects of the energy crisis led to the use of more fuel-efficient cars, better insulation in homes and so on. Although economic growth led to a gradual recovery, as late as 1993 world oil consumption was only slightly higher than it had been in 1979. In the United States, oil consumption didn't regain its 1979 level until 1997.

Since then, however, world demand has grown rapidly: the daily world consumption of oil is 12 million barrels higher than it was a decade ago, roughly equal to the combined production of Saudi Arabia and Iran. It turns out that America's love affair with gas guzzlers, shortsighted as it is, is not the main culprit: the big increases in demand have come from booming developing countries. China, in particular, still consumes only 8 percent of the world's oil - but it accounted for 37 percent of the growth in world oil consumption over the last four years.

The collision between rapidly growing world demand and a limited world supply is the reason why the oil market is so vulnerable to jitters. Maybe we'll get through this bad patch, and oil will fall back toward $30 a barrel. But if that happens, it will be only a temporary respite.

In a way it's ironic. Lately we've been hearing a lot about competition from Chinese manufacturing and Indian call centers. But a different kind of competition - the scramble for oil and other resources - poses a much bigger threat to our prosperity.

Posted by: Oh_dear at October 15, 2004 08:20 AM (3j5lz)

490 Oh dear,,,
how do you know the oil wells are there, if they are undiscovered??? he he....What is your backgroud in the oil business? Ever been to Canada, Alaska? Just curious....

Tracie

Ps...Coogaruk, I too would wish for a much swifter death than any of the men on this sight experienced, again it shows how the terrorist use it to their gain, look at all the comments where people are in shock of the barbaric torture they witnessed in the beheading, such as myself with the armstrong video, most of the middle east residents see it as common,,,expected, some even experienced with loss of family members

Posted by: madarmywife at October 15, 2004 08:23 AM (nV+Zp)

491 madarmywife, thankyou for your views(slightly more objective than Laura's)However, does the legality of the war still matter over a year after the event? The only responsible answer must be yes.
In the first place we are still struggling with the legacy of our decision to conquer Iraq and the incompetence of an occupation that has compounded the original misjudgment. Iraq may have been no threat to us at the time of the war, but we have certainly turned it into one as a base for international terrorism. Instead of delivering a modern Iraq as a model for the region, we have made Iraq a source of instability in a Middle East that looks much more precarious than two years ago.
But it also matters because the fabric of orderly relations between nations, the strength of human rights law and cooperation against terrorism are built on respect for international law. We cannot demand that respect from other nations if we ourselves do not give it a higher priority than we appear to have done in reaching our decision to go to war in Iraq.

Posted by: paul at October 15, 2004 08:33 AM (zn7UZ)

492 Oh Dear,
thank you for the very interesting history lesson, Why didn't we try to control and gain the oil supply with the Kuwait conflict, as asked before, how much oil were we getting from Iraq before the war? Do you not think the billions soon to be trillions of dollars spent on the war against terrorism and home land security could not have been saved or stock piled to pay for enough oil to last our presidents life time? How much does America spend in importing oil a year, I am curious? from where do we get the sources, what countries? I am not being sarcastic, I would really like to know? I am dumb in these matters

Posted by: madarmywife at October 15, 2004 08:43 AM (nV+Zp)

493 Mr Bush ran for the White House in 2000 as a "compassionate conservative" who would show a certain humility in America's military interventions abroad. It is not his fault that the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, nullified the notion of compassion as a useful tool in American politics. But Mr Bush still needs to offer American's-and his allies in Iraq coalition-a way out of the troubled mission in Iraq. Mr Kerry's boast that he has "a plan" for Iraq is rather hollow, but then he is just a challenger. Mr Bush is the incumbent and the architect of this war, and must now take responsibility for offering a way forward. If that means rethinking neo-conservative attitudes to "regime change" throughout the region, while rebuilding alliances with "old Europe", then now is the time to be honest with the American people.

Posted by: paul at October 15, 2004 08:49 AM (zn7UZ)

494 Paul
I totally agree with and respect most of that comment, but I do not agree with Iraq being turned into an international base for terrorism by Americas invasion, it was turned into nothing, it was already there, blended in and hidden as most terroristic groups are amoung a people that can not defend themselves and live in fear of speaking up or getting put to death, a people such as many others who have sons born only to fear the day they are taken by the taliban to train and brainwash for their own benefit and use to help destroy the infidels. Decades and decades of taught hatred because that kind of life for them is better than no life at all,,

Posted by: madarmywife at October 15, 2004 08:54 AM (nV+Zp)

495 Haunted by his father's defeat, Bush's presidency has been a case study in reaction formation. He marched to Baghdad, ensured he had no enemy to his right, and cut taxes regardless of the deficit. In the last debate, he sputtered about "a liberal senator from Massachusetts", repeating attack lines from his father's old campaign and coming full circle in pursuit of the gilded crown.

Posted by: paul at October 15, 2004 08:59 AM (zn7UZ)

496 Paul

It is beginning to iritate me somewhat that most of the stuff you post on here are culled from press clippings or cut & pasted from newspaper articles and other media sources.

I understand if that is your preferred means of endorsing your stance but I was just wondering whether or not you actually have a mind of your own and if you are maybe, even if only occasionally, capable of a few words of originality?

If you are going to use articles to get your points across, I feel that naming the source would be most helpful.

Cheers in anticipation...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 15, 2004 11:31 AM (m+SXB)

497 you iraqi scum can go 2 hell
what you have done is sick and you dont deserve to live!
i was nearly crying when i heard and im only 13 for gods sake,
what is the world coming to, arent we meant to be civilized??
cant anyone see that the world is becoming a destructive place?
its disgusting!
good luck to the people searching for the brutal murderers and also good luck to people trying to sort out the mess in iraq!!

Jo+Maddy

Posted by: Jo at October 15, 2004 12:09 PM (Ndf2F)

498 Can anybody tell me, what is it, exactly, that Tony Blair is admitting to having done when he says he is sorry for "mistakes in the pre-war intelligence"? It only makes sense to apologise if one has done something which one subsequently regrets.
Is he sorry for misrepresenting the intelligence to the public? No, for he vehemently denies having done this. Then can it be that he is sorry for misinterpreting the intelligence? Once again no, for Mr Blair has never so much as intimated that his judgement is faulty.
One cannot escape the conclusion that my Prime Minister's apology is a vicarious one, an apology on behalf of the intelligence services, who got it wrong-which is no apology at all.

Posted by: kev at October 15, 2004 12:31 PM (WPo6D)

499 Security depends on consent and legitimacy. The insurgency is spreading in Iraq because the coalition and the the Iraqi government lack legitimacy, not because there are not enough soldiers or policemen. Generating legitimacy and consent requires an active civil society-debate, discussion and public pressure.
During the past year, the war in Iraq has brought global politics into the domestic arena in nearly all countries. It is a multi-faceted debate, not war, that is needed if we are to deal with the new global sources of insecurity.

Posted by: george at October 15, 2004 12:42 PM (WPo6D)

500 Tony Blair has never said the word SORRY!
just I apologise...

Posted by: Blair_Witch at October 15, 2004 01:37 PM (FzJmw)

501 COOqarUK, it really iratates me to try to work out what you are going on about. Cutting and Pasting? Newspapers? You were lecturing Laura earlier on this site about supporting your statements with facts. I would suggest you do the same. Only, I am not susceptible to 'wind-up's' as Laura seems to be. If you can't keep the debate alive without judging others, then perhaps you might have a few more people to debate with.

Posted by: paul at October 15, 2004 01:57 PM (/SPxh)

502 Well said George and Kev.

Posted by: paul at October 15, 2004 02:00 PM (/SPxh)

503 BLAIR HAS MADE THE WRONG APOLOGY.

How long will Tony Blair go on using weaselly words to avoid the real issue?
He is not being asked to apologise for the faulty intelligence, or for removing Saddam Hussein from power. What, in my view, he must apologise for is misrepresenting the intelligence reports and rushing this country into what is now plainly a disastrous, immoral and unnecessary war in which thousands have died and a country has been pitched into chaos, and doing so against the wishes of the British people, the UN weapons inspectors and our European allies, while ignoring all advice to the contrary including that of his own intelligence services.
If he does not do this, then in my view, he has to resign.

Posted by: paul at October 15, 2004 02:13 PM (/SPxh)

504 I think we should all hold hands and pray...that i restrain masel from hittin the paki fuck in ma class at school i think the muslim cunt deserves a fuckin kick in the heed fir his religions crimes....SCOTLAND SAY NO TO TERRORISM VOTE BNP!!!!!! KILL ALL OTHERS AKA PAKIS NIGGERS CHINKS N ALL U HALF BREEDS

Posted by: Big Dave Warrior of scotland at October 15, 2004 05:29 PM (vcX+d)

505 Hello everyone, I'm back! I tried to stay away but Laura and Andrea, I just missed you so much and I know you missed me too. And the temptation of a little investigative work was just too much. Paul - I think your posts have been intelligent and informative and I mean to cast no aspersion on your journalistic ability or posting integrity BUT I have found (by googling as it happens, for I am the google queen) your post from a few days ago on the Chinese Hostages published elsewhere. So time to 'fess up - are you working for The Times? And ('Iraq: Raw power is no substitute for British Moral Authority')The Independent too?

Blair Witch, nearly right on Blair's non-apology (I only know this because it was mentioned in passing on Have I Got News For You tonight) he apparantly said "I can apologise" and "I have apologised" but didn't actually say "I apologise". The git.

Posted by: Cas at October 15, 2004 05:34 PM (9ykWG)

506 FYI everybody there was an interesting article in the Guardian today about the legal case for war in Iraq - you can find it at http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1327944,00.html

So - should we spot any posts incorporating this wording:
'There is another awkward question that has become more acute with each new revelation, and which will not go away until it is answered. What does the government now think was the legal basis for war?' we will know that we have actually been privileged to converse with the very erudite Mr Robin Cook posing as Paul.

Robin, you may be short in stature but as the only one time member of Blair's cabinet able to stick to your principles, I salute you. In a non-military, peaceable sort of way

Posted by: Cas at October 15, 2004 06:14 PM (9ykWG)

507 Thank you Cas.

I too have googled passages from many of Paul's posts , but I decided to give him the opportunity to come clean and explain himself. Instead he lied. As if there aren't enough lies already eminating from the British and American Governments.

Well there you go, Paul... you have been EXPOSED, and now lack what little credibility you may have had left.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 15, 2004 06:45 PM (m+SXB)

508 Paul, you as much as anybody should know by now that I only deal in facts. You asked for facts, so here is some more evidence for you to chew on:-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1301013,00.html

Oh look, it's your 'Psychotic Murders' post from 10th October!

Surely it couldn't be The Times' editorial from October 9th? A mere coincidence?

I don't think so, plagiarist!

I'm only sorry that Cas beat me to it (the evidence that is, not the expose)

Posted by: C00garUK at October 15, 2004 07:01 PM (m+SXB)

509 JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES OF AMERICA!!! IT'S A NEW BEGINNING!!!

Posted by: Dazed and Concerned at October 15, 2004 07:36 PM (zW0uE)

510 Sorry folks, I made a mistake.

Paul does not use cut & paste from newspaper articles in his posts.

He uses copy & paste: FACT

Posted by: C00garUK at October 15, 2004 08:16 PM (bwxFy)

511 I first posted this on another page, but after seeing that this page has been used as a sort-of 'condolences' page for the 3 murdered hostages, I hope no-one minds me stating my observations on this page. Thank you for taking the time to read it.

"I, just a normal working class man from Liverpool, am truly sickened and horrified by the death of Ken Bigley.

I don't believe in any god, and neither have I any political persuasions.
Liverpool is a place of many diverse cultures and races from both near and far. We did have our problems at first, but over the years we have all learned to live next door to one another, and send our children to the same schools, and we now watch our children play and grow up together. In fact, you could even say we like each other.

We ALL need to take a page out of the book that our children grow up by, who's minds have not yet been corrupted by any god, leader or currency.

But sadly, today a cloud hangs over merseyside as a result of another son who will never return to his home, friends and family, and as I look around Liverpool I see all races grieving together, as one, and i ask the question..... 'has anything changed, who won?'

As I said, I am not a believer of any god, but a saying from the bible does come to mind...... "He who lives by the sword...."

The time has come to put down that sword and pick up the pen that writes how we want our children to live their future lives.

Derry,
Liverpool
U.K.

Posted by: derry at Sunday October 10, 2004 05:39 AM

Posted by: Derry at October 15, 2004 08:32 PM (5DWht)

512 wow I see Paul was cheating in school today, bet that was embarassing!!! Good for you coogaruk......and cas, I see someone dazed and concerned is voting for Kerry, that would explain that..?!!?!!? Pros and Cons still going on over the rights and wrongs of the whole situation...the problem is not blair saying I am sorry, this is not nursery school, whats been done is done and I feel all and I mean all feel distress in certain choices made; it doesn't matter if they are a politician or a soilder, or and innocent Iraqi, I would like to here how all the bush bashers would fix everything? How do you think Kerry will fix everything? again I say his plan is the plan bush has already established, we have to stop pointing fingers, come together and focus on something good coming out of this.......there are Iraqi people that are glad this happened and look forward to their freedom,,,,,,,,It is not all of Iraq that is causing the resistance only a small percentage, most of which are insurgents, terrorist, and just down right born to lose individuals who know no better.....I am more concerned over the endless signs purtaining to the end of times, when our good Lord will soon return and end all this madness......especially in Revelation where it states "all eyes will be on the middle east", wars and rumors of wars....etc,.......

Posted by: madarmywife at October 15, 2004 10:59 PM (UpeBb)

513 I have to say I totally agree with Derry, he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. I have only seen this site a few times, but wouldn't it be better if the induviduels who take the time out to post stuff, concentrate on the fact it's about the brutal be-heading of Kenneth bigley, and not about point-scoring over one another. For me it doesn't matter who's got information from here, there or anywhere, as long as people can DEBATE about the relevant topic, which is about the poor and sadly missed Mr Bigley.

Posted by: george at October 16, 2004 05:53 AM (zB59Y)

514 Where did Paul go? Maybe his papers weren't delivered this morning.

I happen to agree with alot of the content contained in Paul's posts, and of course I form opinions by reading papers and other articles and watching the news.

However, at least once I have formed those opinions, I make an effort to put them forward in my own words.

I am sometimes tempted to copy & paste articles myself,it would certainly be less time-consuming, however if I did so I would endeavour to admit to it and quote the source.

I actually sussed Paul a while back on a previous thread when he was always asking me to comment on his rantings. I did that a couple of times but soon stopped once I became suspicious that the words I was passing comment on were not his own. I didn't bother raising the issue at the time.

Back 'On Topic':
I was as disgusted as anyone over the inhumane treatment Of Ken Bigley and his disgusting murder (same goes for the American hostages, and hostages of whichever nationality). But miss him? Sorry no, I did not know the chap, so I cannot miss him.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 16, 2004 06:06 AM (BTgjq)

515 COOqarUK, I wasn't eluding to whether you personnaly missed Ken Bigley, however you can bet that a lot of people in Liverpool do, including his family of course. As you rightly mentioned, it is disgusting how these innocent and unarmed people were treated. Your views seem's to be against the war in Iraq, however, we are at war, so is it not time now to move the debate on? What would you suggest Tony Blair and Bush to do? I believe we should continue to have our presence in Iraq untill the legitimate Iraqi government has been VOTED in, as opposed to the interim government, which is, at this moment in place. Good people can have different views and feelings on such a subject as this, but move the debate on.

Posted by: george at October 16, 2004 08:03 AM (KT1YH)

516 A difficult one.

Reading the headlines about what is likely just about to happen with British troops in Iraq, my gut feeling is to pull them out and let the Americans sort their own mess out.

I accept that America deserves a degree of support from us and although I would be one of the first to admit that terrorism is a world problem that has to be dealt with unfortunately I have absolutely no expertise in that field except to say that the illegal invasion of another country is not exactly the best way forward to get people on your side and I strongly feel that the present mess in Iraq is one of America's own creation.

I also do not feel that Iraq is at all ready for democracy and certainly they are not going to accept a Government installed by the west, however 'democratic' the process.

This mess is going to ensue for many years and I fear that the situation will deteriorate much further before - if ever - things start to turn for the better.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 16, 2004 08:25 AM (WeEWl)

517 COOUK, fair enough, even though I don't agree that an Iraqi "government installed by the west" is a fair comment. The interim government could be seen as a western installed government, but where does the argument go after the elections? In which everyday Iraqi's will have a right to vote, that is a powerful argument against those who have suggested that it will be a western puppet government, surley then, those people and countries such as France and Germany, would be best to be seen working with and for Iraq. Moving this debate on, not just here between us, but also for the future of Iraq is surely the way forward.

Posted by: george at October 16, 2004 09:02 AM (cW1np)

518 GEO

Looking ahead, or moving the debate on or whatever you prefer to call it , I can only envisage a 'western installed puppet government', continuing unrest, or most likely an inflammable mixture of both. For many years to come. And all because Bully Boy Bush decided to flex his muscles... as it happens, in the wrong direction. That is my honest opinion.

Either way, the war will prove in the long term to have been as pointless as it was illegal.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 16, 2004 11:35 AM (ygqNA)

519 The war was illegal because of the case our government put forward in terms of WMD. Perhaps if the cabinet put forward a case for, lets say, regime change and trust the British public, then maybe the public might have said yes or no, so in those terms I agree with you. It will be a long-haul. History will judge Bush and Blair, whether it was right or wrong to go into Iraq. So I prefer to let history measure that.

Posted by: george at October 16, 2004 11:54 AM (z/Un7)

520 Yes, I agree with that. I have often said that history will be the judge.

Of course, the best time for a regime change in Iraq might have been during the Gulf War in 1991.

The UN didn't sanction it at the time of course, however I feel that justification might have been a little stronger then than waiting a further 12 years, during which time - and however Saddam was treating his own people - the country had been brought to its knees by UN sanctions.

Further, on what seems the last thread of 'justification' that the British & US Governments now appear to be clinging to, I am not of the opinion that Saddam intented to build up his WMDs once sanctions were lifted. I believe that he probably had learned a lesson in terms of what that would have meant. Further, even if it were true, the sanctions could simply have been left in place.

I still see no case for the war or occupation. And it will take a far more intelligent and reasoned argument than what I have seen on here to change my mind.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 16, 2004 01:30 PM (2xpe7)

521 PS - So Japan bombed first...they didnt "Atom" bomb. There is a mighty difference and all the destruction that Enola caused there, the Iraqis are getting off lightly. America is not the worlds biggest friend (it has too much blood on its hands) it is the worlds biggest bully.

Posted by: Rule Brittania at October 16, 2004 01:47 PM (Mb4kT)

522 Yes. The fact that America has become so powerful, does does instill me with any confidence for world peace.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 16, 2004 03:33 PM (2xpe7)

523 Does NOT

Posted by: C00garUK at October 16, 2004 07:20 PM (bVGDH)

524 wow, a lot of America and bush bashing going on, you are all right, what we did was wrong as far as rushing in and turning a country upside down, we should have got saddam in the Gulf War, yes, most Americans agree there, think the UN didn't agree at the time?? I, like you wish for peace again, if there ever was any? There has never been peace in the middle east, maybe if we went in on the bases of inhuman treatment by saddam on his own people, or something that would have made sinse?

I wasn't even going to post anything, but I am a proud American and I will not read where someone calls us the worlds biggest bully and not put in my two cents again??

Excuse me, but America is made up of people from all over the world and we spend billions of dollars helping other countries, I wish we would stop and take care of our own....I would say Hitler and Germany could win the biggest bully award with what happened in the Holocaust, now there was a lot of innocent blood on your hands........Japan got what they deserved, they played the cards and lost the game.........If you think I enjoy sending our men and women such as my husband who spends years away from his kids to help take care of other countries, I don't!!!!!!!! I hate it, but somebody has to be the babysitter or we would all get blown to hell,,,,,

and George what happened with your devoting comments to Mr. Bigley? Looks like you are doing a little debating yourself...shouldn't be to quick to judge!! I as well as the coogar have been listing comments of sympathy on all the poor men's message boards who have lost their lives to the the trash taliban, we did try to find them. I don't regret one bit bombing that place to get those trash murderers out,

if we don't have a reason to be there, well Mr. Bigley, Mr. Armstrong and Jack Hensley just gave us one!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 16, 2004 11:19 PM (LvO4i)

525 Well, "rule Britannia" it was choice between the deaths of thousands of Americans trying to take Japan or dropping the A-bomb, ending the war Japan started and saving thousands of American lives, so we dropped the A-bomb. Your country would have done the same and so would Japan so don't even get righteous with me.

Madarymwife--I agree with needing more aid for our own. I and practically everyone I know is sick and tired of spending billions on foreign countries when we need to use that money here at home to expand Medicaide , Medicare and other health insurance programs as well as do other things for our own people.

Posted by: mart at October 17, 2004 02:12 AM (Aj1Qe)

526 Mart

With respect, you are one of many Americans who have a slanted view on history. Japan didn't start WWII, Hitler's Germany did by invading Poland (and I accept that there was appeasement during Hitler's Nazi Party's rise to power, even from the UK). The UK immediately declared war and the rest as they say is history.

America didn't get interested until she herself was attacked at Pearl Harbor, so I can see where you Americans get the idea that the war Started on 7th December 1941, when in fact it had been raging since September 1939!

I accept that the US involvement towards the end of the war probably shortened it considerably but don't forget which country they used as their main base in Europe, a country with great resolve to defeat the Axis powers, a country that because of that resolve (and I guess it helps to be a small island sometimes!) was not invaded or occupied during the entire conflict.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 17, 2004 04:41 AM (M6Mtp)

527 madarmywife

You know I disagree with many of your views, however I also respect them, along with those of all Americans, even though I have been accused on here many times of being an American-hater.

I've decided not to respond to any of your last comments (too busy with Mart's history lesson, which I am sure will result in more 'Turkey Brit / America-Basher type comments).

The majority of Americans are good people, with good intentions. However, America has a reputation for 'shoot first, ask questions later' and many of its 'good intentions' are so ill-thought-out, the mess afterwards such as that which we are seeing in Iraq right now is sadly inevitable.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 17, 2004 04:49 AM (M6Mtp)

528 madarmywife, what is it that you are actually mad about? Not a judgement, as its clearly your post name. I haven't suggested that COOUK and yourself, haven't had kind words to say about Mr Bigley. I was merely pointing to the fact that we are now at war, so therefore the debate about the right and wrongs of going into Iraq is now irrelevant. I've already put forward a view as to what would be best for Iraq. But only history knows.

Posted by: george at October 17, 2004 04:56 AM (EDaM5)

529 COOUK, thankyou for giving the correct information to our American readers about WW2.

Posted by: george at October 17, 2004 05:02 AM (EDaM5)

530 George, the sad thing is that we are not 'at war'.

The war officially ended on 15 April 2003, less than a month after it started.

What we are now left with is an occupation (just as illegal as the war itself in my view).

The loss of life continues however, and as previously stated, I cannot see any end in sight.

Here are some stastistics, which I hope the pro-war lobby will take time to ponder over (of course, they will already be sadly out of date by the time that you read them):-

At LEAST 13,278 and up to 15,357 (mainly Iraqi)civilians - DEAD

1101 US Military Personnel - DEAD

68 UK Military Personnel - DEAD

70 Other Military Personnel - DEAD

Total Coalition Military fatalities: 1,239

Posted by: C00garUK at October 17, 2004 05:21 AM (M6Mtp)

531 Hi everyone,

This will probably be my last post on this blog -I don't know about anyone else but I'm beginning to feel quite used to getting onto the page and scrolling as quickly as I can to the bottom to pick up the thread, past the horrific images of Ken Bigley's murder and I'm not feeling too comfortable with that. I don't want to become used to or hardened to those images, I don't want to look at them anymore yet I don't want to zip past without acknowledging them either and I feel that to some extent that's where I'm going. Sorry, I'm probably not expressing that too well.

Anyway - I do think that the discussion we've been having has progressed hugely over the past week or so and I'm glad I've participated in it. I know that it has polarised into UK / US camps at times.

I have been immensely frustrated at the "NUKE 'EM" attitudes but I recognise that this has been a hugely emotive topic for many people and to some extent (although I disagree completely with the conclusion) I can understand that some things are too close to home for some people to ever be able to separate the real issues from their feelings of loss, fear and anger.

In terms of responsibility for what has happened and is still happening in Iraq, I know that I would be horrified if anyone tried to attribute the actions of Tony Blair and the UK government to me personally, but I would defend the UK where I could if attacked by someone from the US because it's my country and I think I understand the political undercurrents better than an outsider would and I'm sure the same applies to US contributors.

In terms of who would be better able to run the country, I can remember the feeling of intense euphoria and relief when Labour won the general election in 1997, and the feeling that things could only get better. They haven't of course, and the very people we believed to be so different back then now bear a frightening resemblance to the old entrenched tory dinosaurs we so despised before. In terms of the US: while I personally believe letting GWB loose with the US presidency is a bit like giving a hand grenade to a two year old, I do think that as the saying goes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely (who said that? Paul??!!) and it is entirely possible that John Kerry might not be much better as a president (although I do think that this particular election is more an exercise in damage limitation so I hope he wins because he really couldn't be worse than GWB.

I think the best we can hope to do is to keep trying to hold our respective governments to account - please, everyone, if you gain nothing else from this blog, recognise how vitally important it is for you to use your vote, and how important it is for people to keep talking to each other.

Finally, I thought I would leave you with a quote by Margaret Mead:

'Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has'.

In peace,

Cas

Posted by: Cas at October 17, 2004 06:44 AM (bXtB3)

532 I never despised the Tory party and I never voted in Mr Blair!

Posted by: Connie at October 17, 2004 09:51 AM (gbdnA)

533 This is the first time i've viewed this site. And seeing those pictures at the top of the page infuriates me. Even more so, is that Blair is arranging honours for civil service cronies who loyally supported his war in Iraq.
While he is about it, perhaps he can arrange for my son and his army comrades to receive the medals they are entitled to after their tour of duty in Afghanistan in 2002.

Posted by: jane at October 17, 2004 11:09 AM (woLCF)

534 Latest Developments
AP Photo
Zarqawi Movement Vows al-Qaida Allegiance
The most feared militant group in Iraq, the movement of terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, declared its allegiance to Osama bin Laden on Sunday, saying it had agreed with al-Qaida over strategy and the need for unity against "the enemies of Islam." The declaration, which began with a Quranic verse encouraging Muslim unity, said al-Zarqawi considered bin Laden "the best leader for Islam's armies against all infidels and apostates."

Does anyone have any doubt now that Iraq is linked to Al Qaeda??? I just had to post this news excerpt, from AP sources, on Yahoo's front news page.

Also, I heard from an online friend, who has a family member who's a soldier in Iraq, who says that the negative press is always played up more than the good stuff. The Iraqi people are thrilled the Americans are there, and constantly bombard the soldiers with gifts of food and candy. I'd rather take the word of someone who's "there" and sees these people every day, than rely on what Bush bashers apparently out to seek any justification in his invasion of Iraq, have to say.

As someone mentioned before, it's time to move on from the debat of whether or not it was illegal, but what we do from hereon in.

I've stayed away purposefully, to see what direction the debate was headed, and it seems CoogarUK moves on to whoever else doesn't share his point of view. I see a pattern: as long as you agree with him and/or share his views, then you will escape his wrath and rudeness. Eveyone cal have their own opinions, but if they're not his, then you're stupid and ignorant, in his mind.

Cas, you seemed to have turned over a new leaf. When I said I was leaving this blog a while ago, you and CoogarUK said good riddance, stay the hell away, blah, blah, blah. Quite frankly, I am surprised that you have taken the same course, yet you don't hear me saying "good, get the hell off".

Think what you must, say what you please, but disagree without being disagreeable. So whoever goes on from here and makes jest of what I've said, we will know who the real perpetrators are on this blog, who are hell bent on flaming anyone who doesn't agree with them.


Posted by: Laura at October 17, 2004 05:33 PM (ptOpl)

535 Laura
Well said and thank you for that bit of news, we see they are weak and in need of combining forces because we are closing in on them in Iraq.....my husband is doing his second term over there and yes he says the same about the people and how happy they are with the Americans there. I think anyone with any intelligence at all knows there were and has always been terrorism in Iraq.

Coogar.....and George you are wrong about us Americans not knowing why and what WWII was all about, get serious.

why is it you say it took Japan to get us in the war....and now you condemn us for hastly going to war over a similarity of abuse.....the sad part about that war is I wish we had acted as quickly as we have with Iraq, maybe we could have saved millions of Jewish people from dying those horrible deaths.....I don't remember Britain saving any that quick and look how close you were??? but you were exactly right about us helping it end quickly!!!!!!!!!!saving the poor few Jews we could, the Holocaust was more horrible than anything going on in Iraq...........those numbers of the torturous deaths on innocent women, children and men have no comparison to your statistics on the death toll in Iraq Coogar......but that doesn't make me feel any less sorry for all who have given their life in Iraq and Afganistan toward the fight against terrorism...not a war by the way.

George, If it worries you I will explain my name used...I use mad because I am mad about what they did to the hostages, I optained the name for myself after watching the Mr. Armstrong torture and beheading, I will always have hard feelings over that one,,,,,,,,,and I am a proud Army wife!!thanks for caring....he he

real name....Tracie and I have no hard feelings against anyone of you, I read and respect your thoughts even though I express my disagreements.......I, like cas, feel I quickly stroll through the images to get the end,, I feel this is good therapy for all of us in understanding and getting through this mess..

God Bless us all

Posted by: madarmywife at October 17, 2004 10:23 PM (RCSDM)

536 Fucking rag head arab cunts, they are gutless and they hide behind a fucked up religion. Lets get Zarqawi and his bunch of gutless fucks and drench them in pigs blood then throw them into a pool of crocodiles.

Posted by: Maverick at October 18, 2004 06:27 AM (Mrzs/)

537 Okay, now I see that Bush is trying to determine whether or not Zarqawi's statement about supporting the Al Qaeda is true and where the source originally came from. I guess he takes back his administration saying there was no link bet. Iraq and Al Qaeda. I could've told him there was.

Tracie, you are so right...the Holocaust was indeed the worst atrocity out of all the wars combined. To think that millions of people were brutally tortured and killed for no other reason other than the fact that they were the "wrong" ethnic group, religion, creed, or whoever else didn't fit Hitler's idea of ther "perfect race".

What amazes me, even to this day, is how such a thing could've even happened in the first place. Besides the fact that most countries denied it even was happening, how did Hitler get so many people behind him to believe this shit? Why didn't anyone stop him over there?

Also, if these terrorists are revenging us for "illegally" attacking their country, why the hell are they beheading their OWN PEOPLE?? Seems to me that's a lame excuse, if they are savage enuf to kill their own, God help us all!

Posted by: Laura at October 18, 2004 07:59 AM (ptOpl)

538 I've read many posts on here over the past couple of days and come to a conclusion that you, yes you, COOqarUK are a complete knob!
It's so easy to come with arguments you have done, of course the primary reason to go to war in Iraq is illegal, that's because of the shite case the govrnment put forward in terms of WMD. Everyone knows that, well, except these tossers who argue with you. Sitting at home on your computer, oh and not to forget, sitting on the moral high-ground. Anyone can argue with the hind-sight you have. Every fucker, and that means France; Germany; Russia; China; Britain and the US knew that Saddam was in breach of lots of resolutions, 12years in fact, and these countries passed those resolutions you tit. So if you have always held the morale stance you have, you would be sitting on your own. So get off France and Russia's band-wagon, because those cunts were only after oil, what are you after? Winding up the Yanks, just remember if it wasn't for them we would be conversing in fuckin German. You should be thanking the US, just for being able to say what you want, but I get the feeling that most of them, think what I see about you...that you are a 24carrot gold prick.

Posted by: tim at October 18, 2004 10:09 AM (cW1np)

539 hello

Posted by: samy at October 18, 2004 10:14 AM (B/MQo)

540 Laura,
I too have tried to understand how the holocaust could have happened, the 1940's were not that long ago and I watch the old movies or look at old pictures of that time era and all it does is remind me of how they were just like we are, it is scary how easy it was for hitler and Germany to take them out of their homes and murder, use them for scientific test, gas them, or starve them, and the innocent children, it makes me sick. Just goes to show you what one man can do, I feel there are many Germans who only participated because of fear of death for themselves and their own families, ....

As far as the beheading of their own people, that is something they have always done, fear is how they gained control of their people.

I feel Zarqawi has run out of ideas and knows he will be caught soon, he wants to hide with old Ben and his cowardly Al Queda as it is evident he can't be found.. personally I believe that will be Zarqawi's downfall, he likes being the chief and the Al Queda already have a chief....maybe they'll kill eachother!!!!!!!!!!!!

have a good day Laura...........

Posted by: madarmywife at October 18, 2004 11:57 AM (4zzN3)

541 madarmywife, I would not say that "many Germans", only did horrific things, because they were scared for themselves, or for fear of what happen to their families. The Germans have still to this day, have got a feeling that they are superior to every other race. That's just my opinion, based on living and working there for two years. It would be nice, to pick up on your point, that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Bin Laden would kill eachother.

Hey COO, I get the feeling that 'tim' doesn't like you very much. hee hee.

Posted by: george at October 18, 2004 12:28 PM (wK5HB)

542 Laura, good point about the terrorists beheading there own.

Posted by: george at October 18, 2004 12:35 PM (wK5HB)

543 Yeah George, that feeling you've got is fucking right. Where is the knob? Hind-sight, a wonderful thing eh COOqarUK? He must still be on the French and Russian band-wagon. To our American FRIEND'S, I do apologise on behalf of British people, for the views of a guy/pussy cat called COOqarUK, who plays it safe with his arguments, as stated in my previous post. Resolution 1441, don't forget that, you piece of shit!

Posted by: tim at October 18, 2004 12:48 PM (wK5HB)

544 Thank God this blog has turned around! I was beginning to think all Brit's thought like CooGAR or that I was alone in my views! Scroll up and you will see numerous posts, made by people backing Coogar's rude insults to me. Like I said, we ALL can have diff. opinions, but if yours aren't in sync with Coog's you are stupid and ignorant and that's why the US is in the mess it's in, because we are all ignorant to the "truth"...well, Coog has yet to explain to me what the fuck IS the truth?

Debating endlessly over why we're in Iraq is a mott point right now. Where we go from here, is the important thing. Lest we forget, the blog was oroginally about Ken's beheading and I am as outraged over this as any Brit would be.

Coog can sit back in his English garden...he is so far removed from this war on terrorism. Not once did he say whether or not he had any loss during the 9/11 attacks, or if he knew someone personally that is serving in Iraq. I have had both loved ones lost in the twin towers and I know soldiers that are in Iraq, so if my emotions are a little more intense than most people on this blog, forgive me. I am acting out on my rage and hopelessness of these terroristic acts.

God bless all our personnel serving there. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know if we did to them what we did to Japan, this would be over with by now, we would have saved countless soldiers from a sure death there and Zarqawi and his cohorts would no longer reign their terror on innnocent hostages.

This is not a "nuke em" mentality! This is called defending your country.

Posted by: Laura at October 18, 2004 01:32 PM (ptOpl)

545 I've never read such a load of bollocks in all my life until the last few posts from tim, laura and madarmywife

1) I was against the illegal invasion of Iraq before it even started, so how can my views be considered hindsight?

2) Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is JORDANIAN, he only popped up in Iraq SINCE America's illegal invasion.

3) There is NO evidence of a direct link between Iraq and al-Qaida - Your own Defence Secretary recently went on record confirming that

4) It is a matter of FACT that America wasn't involved in WWII prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor

5) I see lots of TV news pictures of Iraqi suicide bombers and American's bombing civilian targets but NONE of Iraq's handing out candy

6) Keep dreaming the dream you American's, cos that's all it is, and rapidly turning into a nightmare

7) Even one of you who strongly opposes me appears to accept that there can be no justification for the illegal invasion of Iraq, or the ensuing illegal occupation. I cannot believe how many of you Americans are prepared to sit at home watching innocent Iraqi civilians and coalition military personnel being needlessly slaughtered in the name of Bush's so-called 'war on terrorism' which is really 'revenge for 9/11'

You American's who support this illegal war make me SICK

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 02:59 PM (+MoXb)

546 Go fuck yourself, Coogar UK and take your self righteousness elsewhere. If your country took a direct hit, such as we did with the twin towers, you'd be singing a different tune! Keep talking about the "illegal invasion" of Iraq and stick up for the foreigners. u spineless, limey son of a bitch!

I hope Rusty does take down this blog b/c we don't need anti-American comments such as yours to fill up this blog. Fuck you and what you believe in.

Yes, I'm going down to your level now! You have enraged me as much, if not more, than the terrorists have! You have yet to state if you have been directly affected by the war on terrorism, and until you proclaim a vested interest in this war, I will not attempt to view your comments than anything other than ramblings made from the comfort of your "english garden" at home....secure, safe, and not remotely affected by the war in Iraq or elsewhere.

You disgust me.

Posted by: Laura at October 18, 2004 03:38 PM (ptOpl)

547 How many more times before it sinks in?

I am NOT anti-American, I AM anti-the illegal invasion of Iraq!

Yeah, take me me off... let's turn this intop a completely American pro-war blog. Let's dispense with free speech and sweep the truth under the carpet.

It won't make the illegal war and illegal occupation any more justified, but hey if it makes you war-mongerers happy...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 03:39 PM (+MoXb)

548 America, wake up and smell the coffee... this illegal war is one that you cannot and will not win. Anyone here old enough to remember Vietnam? Why doesn't America ever learn from its mistakes?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 03:43 PM (+MoXb)

549 Laura, stop talking out of your arse. The UK has taken more direct hits from terrorists than you have had hot dinners, many of them funded from American sympathisers.

Like I said, the current illegal conflict in Iraq can be traced directly back to 9/11 and you have just confirmed it.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 03:47 PM (+MoXb)

550 Hey knob AKA COOqarUK, As I said before, every other fucker, France and Russia and the rest thought that Saddam had WMDs, that's why they all agreed and passed 12 years worth of resolutions, the last one (1441), stated 'serious consequences'. What the fuck does that mean to you? Like I said before, if our wank governments said let's get rid of this cunt because of these breaches, then would a French loving fairy like you agree to go in? You said about being against the war, even though the war had never started, how the fuck can you be against something, BEFORE that something is even there? Also, how the fuck do you know that Zarqawi "just popped up SINCE" the arrival of US/UK troops? Sweeping statement if you ask me, knob. I bet your grandparents would give you a slap, if they heard the shite your waffling about America. You can be lucky you can express your views, if it wasn't for the yanks you would be kraut. Maybe you should ask your grandparents about that. You tit!

Posted by: tim at October 18, 2004 03:50 PM (O58NQ)

551 In two weeks time American citizens will have a chance to really help make the world a safer place.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 03:52 PM (+MoXb)

552 tim, yet another misinformed misguided idiot.

Maybe if you spent less time typing expletives and insults and more time learning history, facts and evidence...

They say that the truth hurts, looks like I've struck a couple of raw nerves!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 03:58 PM (+MoXb)

553 Laura hun, the drugs appear to be wearing off.

Get off to your doc and ask for a repeat prescription, there's a good girl...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:03 PM (+MoXb)

554 ooh temper temper timothy, and as for her Laura still going on about "nuking", youre only mad because your husband is over there...what if your country "nuked" now...yes then maybe it would end. I agree with CooqarUK..not because hes from the UK but because he seems to be the only one who knows what hes talking about and doesnt fucking swear all the fucking time

Posted by: rule Britannia at October 18, 2004 04:12 PM (/NOFl)

555 I don't need to swear to get my points across. All I need is truth, honesty and integrity backed up with evidence and facts and boy do I have those in abundance.

I wonder if Tim has always been so dim?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:16 PM (+MoXb)

556 I wonder if Tim has ever even been "nice"

Posted by: rule Britannia at October 18, 2004 04:18 PM (/NOFl)

557 So Laura, this isn't about making the world a safer place after all. It's all about having a vested self-interest.

That's what I've been saying all along. And once again you have proved me to be absolutely 100% correct.

Thanks hun, I couldn't have achieved it without your support.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:19 PM (+MoXb)

558 I'm afraid that tim isn't able to compete on the same intellectual level. It's not his fault.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:20 PM (+MoXb)

559 ...Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States...

Any ideas where the above passage may have originated from, and three guesses as to which world superpower is in non-compliance?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:30 PM (+MoXb)

560 COOqarUK (Knob), what does that shite mean, "you cannot and will not win", what the fuck is that about? Are you gonna go over there and make sure of that, are you? Don't listen to this tit America, he's just winding you all up, with his generalisations. Also "sweeping the truth under the carpet", again how the fuck do you know what the truth is? You say your not anti-American, but you are, "America's illegal war", was by American's, so since you are against US/UK troops being there, that makes you anti-America. You are such a tosser. I hate knob's like you, full of sweeping statements on shit you know fuck all about. I'm not saying I do either, but what I do know is tit's such as you have not put forward any intelligent solutions for Iraq. Let me guess, pull the UKs troops out and perhaps let the yanks get on with it! Dead friendly to Iraq if that would be your answer. Iraq needs America and Britain, not appeasers, such as knob, AKA (COOqarUK)

Posted by: tim at October 18, 2004 04:36 PM (O58NQ)

561 Actually, the 'last one' was Security Council resolution 1454 (2002) - Please try to get your facts straight.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:37 PM (+MoXb)

562 Tim what's it like having the intellectual capacity of a mollusc?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:41 PM (+MoXb)

563 "what does that shite mean, "you cannot and will not win", what the fuck is that about? Are you gonna go over there and make sure of that, are you?"

Er, I don't need to. America is making a much better job of fucking everything up than a mere mortal such as myself could ever dream about.

"Also "sweeping the truth under the carpet", again how the fuck do you know what the truth is?"

The truth is:-

1) Iraq had NO WMDs at the time of the illegal American-led invasion

2) Iraq posed NO immediate threat to the west

3) There is NO evidence of a direct link between Iraq and al-Qaida

4) America's invasion and occupation of Iraq is illegal

"so since you are against US/UK troops being there, that makes you anti-America."

No it doesn't

"Iraq needs America and Britain,"

No it doesn't, and more importantly it doesn't want them.




Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 04:48 PM (+MoXb)

564 So knob, (with hind-sight), we are in Iraq, the debate has to move on. Any solutions yet? Oh is this the point were I'm supposed to (bite) now? Ha, you tit. You know fuck all, you only have views, (courtesy of the US), opinions based on fuck all. Integrity, say's who? you? Honesty? how do we know your honenst? Truth, what's that based on? Full of crap! When we had the anti-war march, what was it, 100,000, 200,000 thousand, I was part of the silent majority who supported the war. I would consider that majority was far greater than the figure stated above. People such as you make me sick. Take your dick out of rule britannia's mouth, resulting in you appeasing a bit more, and him riding on the same band-wagon as you. Tit!

Posted by: tim at October 18, 2004 05:13 PM (O58NQ)

565 Don't patronize me, you fucking asshole! You just love to rile up us Americans, don't you? So you can say "calm down Americans, us Brits have more reserve than you do"...I see where you're headed with this.

And don't talk about "vested Iinterest"...until ou can tell me if you have lost loved ones over this war, or know someone who's fighting over there, you can keep spewing all your shit to whoever will listen to you.

You would be the first one to push the nuke button, had your country been invaded, don't give me that shit.

What's the truth, numb nuts????




Posted by: Laura at October 18, 2004 05:13 PM (ptOpl)

566 "Truth, what's that based on?"

Evidence and facts

"silent majority who supported the war"

LOL

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 05:16 PM (+MoXb)

567 Hey Tim "not at all nice but dim" - excuse me while I swallow - did you ever fuckin go to skool? I dont fink you did darlin

Posted by: rule Britannia at October 18, 2004 05:17 PM (/NOFl)

568 Hey Brittania, get yer fucking facts straight....my husband never has and never will be a soldier fighting in Iraq! I said I had loved ones fighting there, doesn't mean my husband's over there.

See what I mean about people mouthing off shit they have NO CLUE about? Hey Brit, do YOU have anyone that you've lost to 9/11 or that is fighting in Iraq?

Didn't think so, yet all of you bleeding heat lib's can mouth off all kinds of shit, being not even remotely involved in this war of terror.

Right or wrong, vengence is ours. Fuck Iraq, and fuck every other Mid East country that hates us.

Down and dirty.

Posted by: Laura at October 18, 2004 05:17 PM (ptOpl)

569 Laura, grow up.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 05:20 PM (+MoXb)

570 9/11 is all you Amis ever go on about...you werent invaded your were just caught wiht your pants down as were you in Pearl Harbour. Youve never been invaded and had your country bombed left right and center if yoou had then maybe you would know what your talking about before you mouth aoff a load of shit yourself.

Posted by: rule Brit at October 18, 2004 05:28 PM (/NOFl)

571 CoogarUk, my views on history aren't "slanted." I never said Japan started WW2 first and I and the rest of America are well aware that the war in Europe started earlier than for the US. We also were "interested" in the war before we entered it . I was merely responding to someone's comment about America's use of the A-bomb.

Posted by: mart at October 18, 2004 05:30 PM (mR349)

572 Mart

"it was choice between the deaths of thousands of Americans trying to take Japan or dropping the A-bomb, ending the war Japan started and saving thousands of American lives, so we dropped the A-bomb."

That's what you said. So, are you retracting that statement now? The bit about Japan starting the war?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 18, 2004 05:42 PM (+MoXb)

573 msg to Laura and all the other American nuts on here. The difference between us is we're informed. we read intelligent newspapers, we listen to different opinions, we know what injustice is and what it looks like, and that there is little difference between beheading a civilian and shooting dead a palestinian child in the head. 3000 americans died in new york. 3500 Iraquis died in attacks between January and August this year. Let's say the US-led wars have killed upwards of, what, 50,000 civilians since 9/11 - probably an underestimate. when does the world stop paying for your grief? you tell 'brits' that they didn't know anyone in the 9/11 attacks. what on earth does that mean? we were rocked by terror in this country for decades. former classmates of mine were killed when the IRA blew up a marine school in my town. does that mean that I wanted to 'nuke' Ireland? No, Iwanted to understand why, to learn the injustice of our occupation. that seems to be the essential difference between us and you. we ask why, we don't resort to bibles or Fox news to understand our world. learn some grace, America. deal with the world in more rational and engaging ways, and you will reap the benefits. read about ancient rome. you might learn a thing or two

Posted by: Dylan at October 18, 2004 05:56 PM (mfanw)

574 Rule Brit, I beg your pardon? 9/11 is all we go on about? Isn't that enough? What the fuck would YOUR country do had it been invaded the same way?

Caught with our pants down? Bullshit! It was an ATTACK, plain and simple, and unless you were affected in any way by the events of 9/11, you will never, ever understand how us Americans feel.

Posted by: Laura at October 18, 2004 05:59 PM (ptOpl)

575 They can behead as many people as they want, the reality is they are just worthless human beings who have no real right to be in this world... I think it is time as real people to 'TURN ' our backs on them all and let them disappear into history!!!

Posted by: andy at October 18, 2004 06:00 PM (HyR7D)

576 I see this debate continues to be US vs. UK and the subject heading of the blog is about an ENGLISHMAN being beheaded, of which I am outraged and angry about! Are you Brits just as outraged over the deaths of Armstrong and Hensley?

So great, you keep thinking that a peaceful way to end this would be the best way, while the terror continues....we need to show them the same indifference to mankind as they've shown to us. It's obvious the only thing they know is violence, so let's give it to them and end it, once and for all.

Posted by: Laura at October 18, 2004 06:04 PM (ptOpl)

577 No, CoogarUk. I meant America went to war with Japan because Japan attacked us first or started their war with us first.

Posted by: mart at October 18, 2004 06:27 PM (mR349)

578 Um Dylan, you are the one who is not informed, certainly not about Americans. Nobody here resorts to "bibles" or "Fox news" to understand the world--huh--that does not even make sense. Oh and "read about ancient Rome you might learn a thing or two"--um ancient Rome fell Dylan. You call Americans uniformed because you just can't seem to accept the fact that many Americans think differently than you and you have no clue where we are coming from.

Posted by: mart at October 18, 2004 06:34 PM (mR349)

579 "Americans think differently"

Yes. Americans only think American. Think about it.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 12:17 AM (rgM7R)

580 Sorry Laura that I confused you with "madarmy wife", easy mistake because you sound like one and the same person-no offence meant. No I wasnt personally affected by 9/11, only by the holocaust in which 1/3 of my mothers realtions were wiped out but thats no big deal. Im just wondering how you would like to "give it to them" and "end it once and for all".

Posted by: Rule Brit at October 19, 2004 07:26 AM (FAg/B)

581 By doing exactly what we seem to be doing lately. Bombing the hell out of places known to hide terrorists. Many are being wiped out.

Yes, Coogie, we do think like Americans, thank God.

Have a nice day.

Posted by: Laura at October 19, 2004 07:30 AM (ptOpl)

582 whot evil..... All you Muslim,s in your round about ways of condoning these evils should drop your heads in shame..The real peace loving religious muslim should stand up and unite in bringing down all these sick cowards...
To think,, these sick brainwashed idiots believe they have "60 virgins" waiting to greet them at the gates of haven... Can one of yous borrow me a £100 squid... and i sware youll be allowed 3 wishes,,,

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 07:45 AM (q1oAV)

583 LAURA.. I tottaly agree with you.. its time we hit these cockroaches with the only tonge they understand..VIOLANCE.. shiiit we have the power to blow them all away.. some inocencent will be sadly killed.. but in every war innocent people die,, if things carry on the way they are now,, we will be fighting each other on the streets, because we, the peacfull, the turn the other cheek, the politally correct,, have had anought. and let me tell you i am ready to bare arms in the name of Bigley, Armstrong, Hensley and every1 ealse who these shit heads have murderd. Im ready,,,as one brave american said..."lets roll"... yea lets roll........

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 08:04 AM (q1oAV)

584 Rule Brit,
it is a big deal what happened to your family, like I said before, there are no words to describe how horrible the holocaust was

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 08:43 AM (+ISC5)

585 and coogar, I really thought you were going to be nicer now...........???????

so Zarqawi is from Jordan..so WHAT!!!!!!!!!,,what are you saying they only bomb and use terrorism in their own county>>>>>dah

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 08:51 AM (+ISC5)

586 George,
you would know more than myself about the Germans if you have lived there for two years...I was refering to the time era only, thank you for the info

Laura
Don't let them get to you...Good old Coogaruk makes me laugh,,,,but he has had me cussing on here...he he....I am glad we think differently also...we would all be blown to bits by now if we thought like most on here....such as....

Dylan...so you think we should sit around and try and understand these murderers??? would you sit around and try to think over the situation if it was your mother or father getting tortured and beheaded???? "Let me see, hmmmmmmmmmm these poor terrorist couldn't really be doing this without a good reason....what did we do to them to deserve this?"""""oh we are infidels......thats it????

what about a trade ,,,Kerry to Britain and we will take the brave Blair off your hands...

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 09:00 AM (+ISC5)

587 I always thought Britain was more Loyal to their leaders than America....you have all proved that wrong for me.....guess I have watched too many medieval movies....Oh no that was Scotland and Ireland that are Brave and loyal,,,,Britain is just a big bully..talk about arrogant....just read these blogs.........whats the deal with the queen thing , I mean what is her job exactly??

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 09:11 AM (+ISC5)

588 the time is now opon us,,, we are a great nation that for scores of years have educated, fed, and help many a contry. Whot have we got in return??????? a couple of nurses and a few dosen corner shop keepers.. YOU UNGREATFULL LOT. send the muslims back to there own contrys if not for a couple of months,, let them realise how fortunate they are living in such comfort,, and as soon as our backs are turned, they try to kill us... send them back,,send them back.. Id rather be a NAZI than a muslim... saying that muslim is a form of nazisiam...so id rather be a horse than a muslim

Posted by: Oliver Cromwell at October 19, 2004 09:13 AM (q1oAV)

589 madarmwife,, Were are you from??????????????

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 09:18 AM (q1oAV)

590 Holy Shit! What does having relatives killed during the Holocaust have to do with this? I am sorry for your losses, but I am talking about having loved ones lost in the 9/11 attacks, hence, my anger and hatred for these people, and wanting revenge.

Like Anthony said, if it was YOUR mother, father, brother, whatever, who's beheading video was in this blog, would you still say we illegally invaded Iraq or would you want them all wiped out like we do?

They illegally INVADED NYC and WASHINGTON, excuuuse me! They don't HAVE to be Al Qaeda, there are plenty of different breeds of terrorists. Zarqawi was from Jordan, big shit, he holed up in Iraq, Bush just used the wrong excuse for invading Iraq...it wasn't about OIL, or WMDs, it was REVENGE for 9/11.

I said it before, you can think what you want..if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, must be a terrorist....whether they're from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Jordan....

If Bush wins the election, I'm sure he'll decide on bombing them all...if he does it now, surely he'll lose.

Posted by: Laura at October 19, 2004 09:19 AM (ptOpl)

591 I cannot believe that the US cannot itself find extra manpower that it now needs in its internationally illegal invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair made a disastrous mistake in sending British troops to take part in that ivasion. If now he ensures his place in history as one of our worst PMs by agreeing to send British troops further north, I trust they will still be completely under British command. As they have proved in Basra, our troops are not gun-happy.
Furthermore, if and when they go, I hope they will leave their heavy weaponry behind. With sincerity, the way to a nation's heart is through its children, not with bullets and bombs but with general kindness and small gifts.

Posted by: Will at October 19, 2004 09:25 AM (7O4Ru)

592 ARE THERE ANY QUEERS IN THE ROOM TONIGHT,, GET THEM UP AGAINST THE WALL,, THERES A MUSLIM, AND THAT ONE,S A COON,, WHO LET ALL THIS RIFT RAFT INTO THE ROOM .. IF I HAD MY WAY ID SEA ALL OF THEM SHOT.... is there anybody in there..... just nod if you can hear me,, is there anyone at home? relax i need some information first just the basic fact... can you show me were it hurts. I think ken was already dead before the beheaded him. killed during escape bid..

Posted by: Oliver Cromwell at October 19, 2004 09:27 AM (q1oAV)

593 Go Cromwell its your birthday.....

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 09:33 AM (q1oAV)

594 my post name is not madarmwife??? don't have a mad arm....tired sometimes though...I am proudly from America so go ahead and throw you insults anthony....
Bush will be re-elected so you guys might as well accept it.........we will get the job done...so you ungratefulls can be safer....

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 09:34 AM (+ISC5)

595 Laura were are you from??????

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 09:35 AM (q1oAV)

596 Cromwell, it would be nice if that were true, it did seem like they were stoping and starting the video and hiding something compared to the Armstrong video.

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 09:41 AM (+ISC5)

597 Where do u think I'm from??? NYC! Why else would I be so enraged, if I wasn't so personally involved...not that you have to be, to be angered by these attacks, just a little more so.

And you?

I already know where Coog, James and their "lot" are from....they're the bleeding heart Brit's on the blog.

Posted by: Laura at October 19, 2004 09:42 AM (ptOpl)

598 hey im all for kicking the shit out of them.. you americans are abit gun ho but when your the most powerfull bitch on earth why not,, we use to run the show befor you guys.. the war is a mess and good old george jr does not fill you with the sence of knowing whot the fuck he,s on.. I hope that kerry wins so we can start to look at the mess from a different perspective,, lets pull out of iraq let them tear each other to peaces then go back in with a big brush and sweep the leftovers in to the tigers..

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 09:44 AM (q1oAV)

599 where are you from Anthony??????

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 09:45 AM (+ISC5)

600 How could Bigley be already dead when he was sitting there before them? Oh, I did notice though, there is an obvious gash to the head, maybe a gunshot wound? In that case, he most certainly could have been dead before the actual beheading.

And the orange part? Was that part of the jumpsuit they cut off along with the head? Didn't look like a head to me.

The most horrific one was Armstrong, as far as details, etc. They did not shout during the actual beheading, but made sure they filmed it close up and we heard Armstrong's pitiful screams. That video was by far, the most painful to watch.

The one where the Korean got beheaded wasn't much better..he begged, pleaded and was allowed to ramble on and on...didn't matter, they killed him anyway.

Gutless, spineless bastards...hiding behind their masks..........show your faces, fuckers.





Posted by: Laura at October 19, 2004 09:46 AM (ptOpl)

601 im from manchester England... and proud as me mothers rose garden,,, hey laura try to chill a little,, your anger is misplaced,, why dont you jump in your truck head down the freeway and the first mussie you see,,, run into the sonofabitch

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 09:50 AM (q1oAV)

602 anthony, what is all this about Kerry saving the day.....what do you know about this guy??? His plan is to chase down terrorist too although I think he is more of a homebody...more about image and saying anything to get elected of course including reminding us all daily that Cheney's daughter is a lesbian...that is a low blow and shows how desrespectful he is...he needs to slow down on the teeth whitener too..........

America may be most powerful but atleast you have Tony Blair....God bless the British army and American army and the rest of the forces in harms way............

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 09:54 AM (+ISC5)

603 Can someone tell me how i get to see the video of the beheading??? plz

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 09:55 AM (q1oAV)

604 RE: Will, If British troops move out of area into an American sector to free up their forces for the pacification of Fallujah, they will be associated with the US style of operation. That may be to the good, if it yields results, but Mr Blair need's to be much clearer and more forceful on this point. If they agree that a ferocious assault on Fallujah is necessary, they must demonstrate strong leadership and say so clearly. Then members of the Black Watch can be absolutely sure they are being treated like soldiers, not political pawns.

Posted by: george at October 19, 2004 09:59 AM (7O4Ru)

605 anthony,
on a good point England is a beautiful place we can't argue there.......would rather vist Scotland though.......being Scot/Irish myself as a big percentage of America, I do believe we are all one in the same........need to try to get along a little better on here.......and talk about what really would help,,,,muslim religion is not a basis for anything on here......the terrorist just use it as a reason........

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 10:01 AM (+ISC5)

606 Hey madarm,, i dont know,, all i know is right now things are a mess, did you see on the news that usa army girl pleading with her mother to kick up a fuss about whots really going on. apparently ready to mutany refussing orders etc, when you hear things like that its time for a new look at the mess.. a new approach.. did you guys like clinton or are you,s just republicans no matter whot. Does the presedent come over stable to you guys?? because he dosnt to me,,

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 10:04 AM (q1oAV)

607 it is all over the net anthony, just type in ken bigley beheading video, there are many sights where it can be downloaded with the others as well, the one that got to me more than anything was Eugene Armstrong's video, I didn't sleep for days. I do hope the rumors of Mr. Bigley getting shot first are true. There is a big difference in the videos. and why wasn't he blindfolded?

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 10:12 AM (+ISC5)

608 North of glasgow and scotland is buitifull and ireland and wales... ssshhhiiittt this whole goddamn irelands are buitifull. lucky thoe a couple amiles east and we,d be a part of the euro.. ewww horrible french neighbours. were quit happy to be where we are.. Why dont we pull out of iraq,,, re group and invade france and all freanch speakers were ever they hide.. they have to be the ungreatfull mothers going. we should of left them under german rule.. do away with hitler but 1 of the terms of surrender is they keep france... yea i could live with that..........

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 10:18 AM (q1oAV)

609 Mr Blair and his government must again decide if they will prop up a president by providing a proxy reserve for American forces to avoid the issue of a draft becoming a hot political potato in the final run in to the US elections.
The American's could find enough extra men at Guantanamo Bay-and release the illegally held captives. I would resign my commission rather than come under American orders. But fortunately I am retired.

Posted by: Will at October 19, 2004 10:23 AM (7O4Ru)

610 I am a democrate, not republican, but I vote for Bush because he knows he has a mess he has to clean up, I don't doubt that.. Kerry is a much better speaker and more image controlled yes....but being a good performer on stage is not enough..there are too many arrogant features in Kerry..........I think George is as crazy as most of us on here that get mad when we are put down daily...this man has a lot on his shoulders..I would be alittle nutty myself in appearance...to others

I can understand the unit in Iraq not wanting to do the mission for lack of descent equipment and safety, but they did disobey orders as well, I don't have the answer to that........I hope that will insure the rest of the military in getting proper equipment....my husband has always had a new bullet proof vest and other equipment issued to him before even departing from America....I don't have the answers to that situation...if I was insecure in the equipment and vehicles, I would probably do the same as they did...no one wants to go in harms way, but it is their job they get paid to do.

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 10:24 AM (+ISC5)

611 be sure to tell your husband the majorety of us brits salute him.. and the rest of both our armys whot a mess the world would be without UK&USA... were is your hubby based? how old are you???

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 10:35 AM (q1oAV)

612 The kindest interpretation which can be placed on our invasion of Iraq is that the government was misled by faulty intelligence. The prisoners detained in Belmarh under the Anti-terrorism Crime and Security Act are held on the basis of intelligence. In effect the Home Secretary is saying "trust me"; why would we do that?

Posted by: Will at October 19, 2004 10:36 AM (7O4Ru)

613 Laura are you still with us...you havent got in your truck have you/????//??? and headed for that freeway we were chatting about..,,

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 10:48 AM (q1oAV)

614 The redeployment of the Black Watch from British to the US sector in Iraq makes no military sense. America has 130,000 troops in place, and another 650 from the Black Watch is neither here nor there in force terms. To reduce the UK's force in the south by removing its divisional reserve leaves our soldiers there exposed to greater danger; and hard-pressed logistics support lines will be unnecessarily extended. Morale in the regiments under threat from the latest round of defence cuts is already fragile. Short-notice tour extension will not help.
We should all be clear that once British forces are deployed outside their area of responsibility, calls for more troops to Iraq are likely to follow as violence escalates in response to a heavy-handed US offensive in Fallujah.
If we want to improve the security situation, we should be concentrating our efforts on giving proper training to Iraqi security forces.

Posted by: Will at October 19, 2004 10:54 AM (7O4Ru)

615 The Black Watch was put on alert while the planners prepared the ground for a political announement

Posted by: abritishsoldier at October 19, 2004 11:02 AM (7O4Ru)

616 by all

Posted by: anthony at October 19, 2004 11:06 AM (q1oAV)

617 OMG, I see the kidnappers have captured their next hostage...a woman, who is the head of a charity in Baghdad who's been there over 30 yrs.!

What the fuck is it gonna take to stop this shit over there? We need to get our men home and blast it...this will never end by any peaceful solution.

Posted by: Laura at October 19, 2004 11:10 AM (ptOpl)

618 My comments are in response to the 'shite' spoken by Boris Johnson Tory M.P. I'm from Birkenhead, town on River Mersey opposite Liverpool.
I look forward to Boris visiting Liverpool. The man is a complete idiot!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Geoff Hughes at October 19, 2004 12:21 PM (aDexT)

619 Ring, ring the bell, wake them up, everyone is sleeping...

Posted by: James at October 19, 2004 12:48 PM (CEsog)

620 I'm from the UK. I'm not anti-American but I'm a bit surprised at all the accusations that the British people don't understand what terrorism is because (thank god) we haven't experienced an attack like 9/11. If any of the Americans on this blog have ever visited the UK they may have noticed that not a single rubbish bin can be found anywhere near a railway station on the UK mainland. That's because of terrorist attacks in the UK. Our stations, buses, hotels, shopping centres and town centres have all been singled out for attack, along with anywhere else with large concentrations of people by the IRA over the past who knows how many decades. I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of the situation in Northern Ireland because heaven knows there has been truly terrible wrongs on both sides. I don't want to take away from anybody's pain anywhere - and certainly not from anyone who has lost loved ones in 9/11, but I do think that there should be recognition that the UK has suffered huge loss of life through terrorist attacks over a very long period of time - not in a single horrific event like 9/11 granted, but an awful lot over the years. Saying that we don't understand what it's like to live with terrorism is really missing the point in a big way!

Posted by: Lisa at October 19, 2004 01:24 PM (CEsog)

621 I think what has happened to not just ken biggley but the other victims and all their families is attrocious. I have personally seen a video of one of the victims and as the parliment say it was in one swipe of the knife they died it is total bollocks i watched a man screaming for atleast 30seconds before he died. Imagine how that must feel? All we can do is sympathise but these bastards need to die it doesnt matter how as long as they dont kill any more of these people that have feeling and not to forget their families i bet they're dying inside! Tony Blair doesnt deserve to be priminister after this!

Posted by: laura emerick at October 19, 2004 01:40 PM (xzSEV)

622 Anthony,
My husband is with the 101st out of Ft. Campbell, he flys the blackhawk helicopter with medvac, a unit that helps take out the hurt both civilian and military. We are in our thirties.

Will,
I don't understand all there is to know about the British Army and how it works there but we are not going to have a draft in America and you are stretching it a bit with your total civil war theory..only a small percentage of the country is in conflict with the coalition, I really don't understand why cnn and other stations don't show more of the good things .I do know the conflict in Iraq will end, it is getting worse because we are hitting the stronghold areas, after that things will slow down, we are training the Iraqis to take care of themselves and they are standing beside the brits and the Americans in their offense.......give these people some hope and stop telling them things will never get better...

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 01:40 PM (RpE8R)

623 madarmywife,
dont u dare defend these monsters i have seen what they can do! how can u say this'll get better? cos it wont not for kenneth bigley's mum, wife and children!!!

Posted by: lauraemerick at October 19, 2004 01:55 PM (xzSEV)

624 who is it that I am defending? Lauraemerick

My husband is over there you @!?!"@K and to think he is risking his life for nothing...well I don't choose to believe that way......and those iraqi children and innocent people deserve more than those insurgents and terrorist using and killing them.........get a life!!!!!!!!!How dare you patronize me,,,,,,,,,,as far as MR. Bigleys family.......they need revenge and that is what our country and my husband are doing you twit!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 02:22 PM (RpE8R)

625 At last Laura admits the illegal US invasion of Iraq was down to revenge... pure and simple.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 02:23 PM (Lk9v/)

626 madarmywife

If your husband dies in Iraq the sad fact of the matter is that he WILL have dided for nothing, just like the 1200+ coalition troops who have already needlessly lost their lives in this unjust/illegal war/occupation

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 02:26 PM (Lk9v/)

627 madarmywife

If your husband dies in Iraq the sad fact of the matter is that he WILL have died for nothing, just like the 1200+ coalition troops who have already needlessly lost their lives in this unjust/illegal war/occupation

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 02:26 PM (Lk9v/)

628 madarmywife

For your information, Scotland is part of Britain, as is Northern Ireland.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 02:30 PM (Lk9v/)

629 that was nice of you coogar, I appreciate that while you sit there drinking your tea, typing away on your little computer enjoying your freedom, my husband will have died trying to make the world a safer place for his six children...

I will not respond to anymore of your comments after that remark about my husband.

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 02:33 PM (RpE8R)

630 I know that you idiot

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 02:38 PM (RpE8R)

631 God Bless Scotland and Ireland, they are a land of their own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Braveheart at October 19, 2004 02:42 PM (RpE8R)

632 lets kill the bloody bastards.....I do believe me Prime Minister may have alittle William Wallace in him eh????? Godspeed to America and Britain, God be with your husband armywife....
@?@?#??$?$?$?%?%?%??to all you couch potatos, lets not go into a debate about Britain and Scotland coogaruk............you bloody wake lover!!!!!!!

Posted by: Braveheart at October 19, 2004 02:49 PM (RpE8R)

633 Like I care whether or not the mad army wife responds to what I have to say.

btw, madarmywife wrote:-

"Oh no that was Scotland and Ireland that are Brave and loyal,,,,Britain is just a big bully.."

which infers that she did not realise that Scotland, and to a lesser extent Northern Ireland, are part of Britain.

Truth, honesty, integrity, accuracy... that is what is lacking from the pro-war lobby on here (of all nationalities)

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 02:58 PM (Lk9v/)

634 Thank you Braveheart, plain to see by you a difference in Scots and Brits......

I suppose Margaret , the one just kidnapped is from Dublin Ireland, do you think they took her to keep Britain from sending more troops to replace the American soilders who are needed to push out more insurgents? would you consider her after 30 years and marrying an Iraqi an Irish native or and Iraqi? It seems she really liked Iraq and living there. The Iraqi's wouldn't do this to someone helping them, just more proof of the terrorist not giving a damn about the Iraqi people...they just hate the US and we have made it easier for them to get to us,,,but we are getting them!!!!!! There is and will always be hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 02:58 PM (RpE8R)

635 madarmywife

You really are beginning to show your ignorance. Dublin isn't in Britain... it's in Ireland!

Further, the hostage you refer to is also an Iraqi(dual nationality)

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:06 PM (Lk9v/)

636 Revenge for ILLEGALLY ATTACKING US ON 9/11. Anyone who believes iraq and all these other countries that hold terrorists aren't responsible for 9/11 can believe what they want.

We need to get our men out, and whoever else wishes to leave, and level it.

Your Prime Minister would do the same if Britian were attacked in a big way....the little garbage can explosions are not enough....leaders react only when it happens in a BIG way.

And you've yet to explain to me how can they be reacting because we "invaded them illegally"??? The only ones reacting are the TERRORISTS, not the Iraqi's who are pleased as punch we are there. We are there to find and snuff out the insurgents...they know this and are grateful. Talk to anyone who's over there and knows this...oh, of course not, you are just going by the "truth" and your "facts"......nothing's plainer or simpler enough that knowing people that are over there and know what's going down.

Out of respect for madarmywife, I, too, refuse to refute this any longer. God forbid something happens to her husband over there, it will NOT have been in vain! He died defending his country from terrorists, WHEREVER they are....and they are THERE, in IRAQ.

Posted by: Laura at October 19, 2004 03:07 PM (ptOpl)

637 madarmywife ur husband is not the only1 serving in iraq and it seems 2 me that u r publicising him working there to gain sympathy from others. If your husband valued his life that much he wouldnt be there and if he were thinking of his children he wouldnt be risking his life, therefore not being able to see his children again! u r the sad one have u actually seen the video of what they have done to one of these men. if u had then u have the right to comment but if not u have no idea of what happens to them. they do not die instantly it is not ONE fatal swipe but series of sawing action leading these men to live 30 seconds of agony before dying. do u really want u husband to risk that happening to him? and think about ur answer carefully 1st because if u can hand on ur heart tell me its ok that his there u obviously dont love him enough. dont be ignorant!

Posted by: lauraemerick at October 19, 2004 03:10 PM (r67W2)

638 Bye Laura

I've no doubt that your absence from this blog will help to make the world a safer place.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:10 PM (Lk9v/)

639 I am sure you would agree there is a big difference in the type of people you get from each region of great Britain.......I think all know I was refering to the people types....to me Scotland will always be worthy of praise on it's on as a seperate place from England or any other Britain Area,,,lets face it you need the Scots and Irish to have any balls at all to do anything...

btw, by coogaruk "I fully support all the coalition groups in Iraq" you two-faced puppet

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 03:15 PM (RpE8R)

640 3,000 innocent Americans die in a terrorist attack (NOT an invasion, I expect you feel invaded every time a tourist enters the country) and so that makes it okay to murder 15,000+ innocent Iraqi civilians in a wild act of revenge?

Anyone who agrees with that is one SICK individual.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:20 PM (Lk9v/)

641 "Scotland will always be worthy of praise on it's on as a seperate place from England or any other Britain Area,,,"

WTF are you on about? Don't you know ANYTHING?

Btw, I see you are as true to your word as Laura. She said she was leaving, you said you were no longer responding to me.

I can support the coalition forces without supporting the war... IDIOT!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:26 PM (Lk9v/)

642 lauraemerick,
I have watched all the videos and if you cared to read my previous responses you would know that, you are refering to the Eugene Armstrong video when you talk about the one where he took 30 seconds to die, that video caused me to lose sleep and fear for my families life,,,,,,,but then again that is why I put mad in my post name in reference to Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Bigleys death and Mr. Hensleys were just as awful but Mr. Armstrong will remain in my mind forever. I also watched and read about the nick berg, johnson and other murders.....if it didn't bother me, I wouldn't waste my time on here. Of course I think of what could happen to my husband, I do think you are safer in the military over there than just working out in public. I am proud of my husband and if he didn't do his job, who would go in and get the people that are hurt, a medvac unit?????? He is one of the few heros represented on this sight, my children are free and they have a good life, they wouldn't have that if someone else didn't give their life before so.........We also have Jesus in our life, he helps me find peace.....my husband doesn't want to leave us and he hates all this mess more than anyone else......but he says it is his job, he is loyal to God, Country and his family......so am I

God Bless our president in his second term coming up!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 03:29 PM (RpE8R)

643 not if you are quoting me or bashing me coogar, I had hoped u would stop responding to me also.....but keep the sticks and stones coming...like I said you make me laugh....

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 03:33 PM (RpE8R)

644 Laura and madarmywife

You two have done more on here to sway opinion AGAINST the war than either of you can possibly imagine.

You both let your heart rule your head and appear unable to back up any of your opinions with anything of real substance.

Rusty

Are you American? If so, I take my hat off to you. For you are one of the few who has shown true integrity.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:34 PM (Lk9v/)

645 madarmywife

I don't need sticks and stones, all I need are your continued ill-informed, misguided comments. Keep them coming. You are losing the argument.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:37 PM (Lk9v/)

646 "I will not respond to anymore of your comments after that remark about my husband."

You can't even get that right, LOL

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:39 PM (Lk9v/)

647 I can think of another reason why the 'mad' bit is quite apt.

Btw, 'out comes the bible' again I see, something else that an American recently tried to refute on here.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:43 PM (Lk9v/)

648 Coogaruk i read armywife comments adn it is plain she knows scotland is part of britain even think she likes the place. you no how those americans like the movie braveheart. that is where they get all the knights and castle fantasy right? There are alot of scots that do believe they are seperate from Britain you know but who cares about that crap anyway
kill the terrorist america and britain
If i wasnt french I would go too

Posted by: frenchmenhang at October 19, 2004 03:44 PM (RpE8R)

649 So you think Bush will get another term, eh? The only term he deserves is a long prison term as a convicted war criminal.

For what it's worth, I think that the American Presidential election is too close to call.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:45 PM (Lk9v/)

650 Scots can go on believing what they like, FACT is Scotland is part of Britain. I wouldn't begrudge them independence though, would be interesting to see how long they lasted.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:48 PM (Lk9v/)

651 Coogaruk
if I wasn't already married, I think I would marry you, never a dull moment.....my husband gives up too easily in our debates, you have the energizer battery commercial going on!!!!! he he he Keep it going!!!!!!!!

as far as the last comment about no more comments, well that did hurt my feelings, but it wasn't enough to shut me up..

and yes I am from the bible belt of believers

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 03:52 PM (RpE8R)

652 "If i wasnt french I would go too"

What kind of a cop-out is that?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:53 PM (Lk9v/)

653 The American's have sophisticated equipment but I have seen, as an 'ex' officer in the British army, hicks and sticks in GI fatigues fail to use it to best advantage, for example gun-laying with 'that will do' degree of accuracy. On another level, they don't bother to teach their troops aircraft, tank or vehicle recognition. To the yanks, if it ain't theirs, its hostile. We, the British army, have already lost men to American, friendly fire. As before mentioned, this is an illegal war. I would suggest, we pull out.

Posted by: Will at October 19, 2004 03:55 PM (oOaJu)

654 You have energizer batteries in America? Shit, we may have something in common after all!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:56 PM (Lk9v/)

655 Will

You obviously appear to have more knowledge in the field than I do (I have none) however I am well aware that every single British fatality in the 1991 Gulf War were as a result of 'friendly' (American) fire.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 03:59 PM (Lk9v/)

656 as far as Laura , why did you bring her up, she isn't even on here right now....maybe you need to stop using your head and see if you have any heart, I do believe the heart speaks the truth more so than the head who only trys to say what will impress someone....

and one more thing to lauraemerick, I don't use my husband for sympathy on here, I answered anthonys question about him....and yours....my husband wouldn't give any of you the time of day!! and he doesn't look at any of the videos or read any of the terrorist propaganda...he is more mature than that and me it seems

Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 04:05 PM (RpE8R)

657 madarmywife

I think I love you! Get a divorce and get over here...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 04:06 PM (Lk9v/)

658 "I do believe the heart speaks the truth more so than the head"

That's where you're going wrong, dear!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 04:07 PM (Lk9v/)

659 madarmywife

FYI, Laura was here exactly an hour prior to my last post (fact), and as I feel that you come across like two peas from the same pod (opinion), THAT's why she got a mention too

Posted by: CoogarUK at October 19, 2004 04:11 PM (Lk9v/)

660 To those who do not know, despite near concurrence in language, both Britain's and America's national and military philosophies are poles apart. We can have no confidence in American command structure. We have all seen instances of even high US commanders not doing as they were told. To most of them, we British do not exist; few refer to coalition forces. It saddens me for our existing British forces in Iraq, that this incompotent govrnment of ours is willing to agree to this 'request' from America. Can't they see, that this war is illegal. Pull our troops out.

Posted by: Will at October 19, 2004 04:12 PM (oOaJu)

661 Worse still, if British troops ARE sent further north, they WILL be under US command.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 04:16 PM (Lk9v/)

662 I have been reading through this blog for sometime now, and see a pattern happening here. As a 28 yr. old soldier who's just returned from a stint in Iraq, I can tell you that Bush was justified in sending troops there. The Iraqi's plead with us every day to help them, free them, find the insurgents. They also know that their people are getting killed. They are okay with that, if it means their freedom from terrorism.

Bush was right, he just used the wrong reasons. It wasn't oil, it wasn't WMDs (Saddam hid them, he's no fool) and now he's got to eat crow. Had he said he had proof there were terrorists hiding out there and kidnappings and beheadings being done, everyone would be supporting him right now. There have been plenty of slaughter going on with Zarqawi before the US invasion. The people have told me so....the terrorists want you to think that the US caused the recent round of beheadings b/c they hate Bush and don't want to see him get re-elected. These are facts. I see many of you Brits are big on facts. Well, I am big on being there...if you were there, you would SEE, and you can quote and read from every newspaper article and watch every news channel, you still would never be able to convince me that the soldiers we have lost, have died for no reason.

Wars have been going on for centuries, soldiers died for the freedoms you enjoy today, innocents being killing unintentionally? It happens, get real. In a perfect world, we would be able to just get the bad guys and no one who wasn't involved would be killed. But, this is a reality, lives will be lost, whether they be soldiers or civilians. Sacrifices must be made for freedom.

I can sympathize with Americans who have lost loved ones from the '93 attack on the twin towers, USS Cole and the attacks of 9/11. What you care to call them, attacks or invasion...to us soldiers, it means the same thing....they came to harm us intentionally...we are not there to harm them intentionally...we are there to free the people from the terrorists.

Argue all you want, seems the people posting here from the UK will never understand why we are there and will continue to dispute it.

Everyone has their opinions and views, but you start mouthing off that we(soldiers) are dying for nothing, that's when I had to step in.

If I am called to serve again, I wouldn't hesitate. These terrorists must be stopped. I can't think of another way, can you?

All you've done is go back and forth on here throwing insults at mostly women, and not saying one word about what you would do about it. Sit home and drink your tea and let us soldiers do our job.

Posted by: fightingsoldier at October 19, 2004 04:39 PM (ptOpl)

663 Nice try, fightingsoldier

FACT remains that you took part in an illegal invasion, and are now involved in an illegal occupation.

Nothing's going to change that FACT.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 19, 2004 04:47 PM (Lk9v/)

664 That's correct COOqarUK, How dare you 'fightingsoldier'. Have you not read any of my previous posts? exactly what regiment was that again? Here is a reminder of an earlier post. INTELLIGENCE FAILURE. 'The kindest interpretation which can be placed on our Government was misled by faulty intelligence. The prisoners detained in Belmarsh under the Anti-terrorism Crime and Security Act are held on the basis of intelligence. In effect the Home Secretary is saying "trust me"; why would we do that?

Posted by: Will at October 19, 2004 05:10 PM (IuZVo)

665 CoogarUK: Who's says the invasion is illegal? Those are your facts, not the true ones.

I can see that every one of your posts are repetitive diatribes over an illegal invasion, over and over and over again. Yet you have the balls to say that, totally removed from the situation, chicken shit that you are, you are NOT THERE, you KNOW NOTHING, believe that we were misled.....yes, that's right, misled! I told you you can read, watch, interpret what you want, but until you are over there, fighting in action, you and your British friends can debate this till doomsday, who the hell are you to decide what's fact and what's not?

Keep saying it, Illegal invasion, illegal invasion.....you pussy Brits don't know a thing about fighting.....stay home in your tudor style homes, or rowhouses, whatever the hell you live in over there.

Until you have fought, you can't say shit about what's really happening over there. You want proof, I gave it to you, yet you still continue to ramble on about this.

I just posted the facts, I was there, I SAW. If the people of Iraq are okay with it, who the hell are you to argue about it?

Actions speak louder than words. I hope I am called back after the election. I would gladly push the button on all those barbaric terrorists.

Posted by: fightingsoldier at October 19, 2004 05:44 PM (ptOpl)

666 HEY COOGER, JAMES AND ALL OF YOU PANSY'S IN THE UK. Who gives a shit about what you think your facts are? Everyone on here keeps asking you what you would do, and you are still being freakin' evasive.

You are like a broken record...we are there, as Laura said, so what of it? What happens now? Want your troops to come home, with tails bet. their legs?

Illegal, schmegal, fuck those terrorists! I hope none of your family ever gets kidnapped and then beheaded. You would change your tune in a heartbeat.

Posted by: USA at October 19, 2004 05:50 PM (ptOpl)

667 "Americans only think American." Think about it.--per our friend COOgarUK.---Well, Coog I did think about it and frankly that comment is so stupid, it makes my head hurt.... and you call yourself *gasp* an intellectual. ha ha ha

Posted by: mart at October 19, 2004 06:26 PM (mR349)

668 I am packing my bags coogar...xoxoxo.. he he

why are you guys picking on the soilder, he like the others are right by doing what they are commanded........none of them really want to be there but he is right there are iraqis that want them there.....that is the same news coming from soilders who have been there all over ft. campbell here in ky...

Will,
one fact is that President Bush always acknowledges the British forces and jumped all over Kerry the first debate for not recognizing the coalition and their fight against terrorism.

to be honest with you all, I am to the point that I could care less anymore...whatever president wins the election we are going to be there for a while regardless of who lied and what reason..I wish it was over,



Posted by: madarmywife at October 19, 2004 09:23 PM (Ej9UC)

669 my fellow Americans--many of you here get angry but I don't, because I understand. You see, I lived in Europe for awhile. While Europeans are nice , they are fed a steady diet of falsehoods, half-truths and omissions by their news medias. Think about it, if your media told you 20 times a day that Iraq is only about oil or that all Americans are cowboys, you'd believe it too. Thus, they get really angry about Iraq because they see it as all about oil because that is what they are constantly told.

Secondly, most Europeans countries have been under the protection of the USA since the Cold War. As such, this has made them a bit sheltered and idealistic. They tend to see things in abstract or black and white terms ie. war is wrong. Many can't see the grey areas or future possibilities. Thus in many European minds, if no WMD's are found and Sadaam says he doesn't have any, then it must be true. They can't understand that he might be hiding them or lying as many Europeans take everything at face value. They can't see that he could be a problem in the future. This makes Europeans well-intentioned if a bit gullible.

Third, many Europeans come from much smaller countries and this makes them a little more insular than Americans who come from a much larger country and are exposed to more. They don't understand that people in other countries do things differently and so are very critical and don't understand when Americans don't agree on issues such as Iraq or Kyoto.

Fourth--Europe used to be a world power and now a former colony(USA) as well as China etc. have risen up and have an important role in the world. This infuriates them which is why Europeans(esp. Brits) can't disagree on an issue without being rude and biting, they cant' stand the fact that they are no longer #1 on the planet.

I'm not saying all Europeans are like this, I'm just talking about tendencies. So Americans, the next time they insult you, try to understand that they don't know any better and that the more rude and snotty they are, the more it means that they are resentful of the fact that they are no longer as important as they once were.

Posted by: JR at October 19, 2004 10:31 PM (mR349)

670 "CoogarUK: Who's says the invasion is illegal? Those are your facts, not the true ones."

The Secretary General of the United Nations, HE says the invasion was illegal.


Madarmywife

You say that 'none of them really want to be there'. I suggest that you take another look at fightingsoldiers posts. With people like him around theworld will remain a very dangerous place indeed. As for 'some Iraqis' wanting them to be there, I have never disputed that. Fact is, there are many more who want you out.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 12:27 AM (hehQk)

671 jr

If I ever stop laughing, I may find the time to respond to your nonsense.

suffice to say for now that most of what you say about Europeans is actually far more appropriate to Americans.

For instance, regarding the 'insular' comment, pleas feel free to pub;ish the statistics on what percentage of Americans own a passport, and of those, how many (or more accurately how few) have even travelled outside of the USA, let alone taken an interest in what goes on in the world, unless it affects their own country.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 12:31 AM (hehQk)

672 You are proving my above point as correct. Most Americans have been outside of the US and study abroad programs are very common. 25% of AMericans have a valid passport at any given time. Millions of Americans have traveled earlier but now have expired passports and as such are not included in this 25% figure. 18 Million new American passports are issued each year. Also, Americans do NOT need a valid passport to travel in some countries. Once again, the European news media feeding you slanted information that you buy wholesale. Anyway, what you don't understand is a passport does NOT mean knowledge of other countries. ANYONE can get a passport and hop on a plane and go to another country. Big deal, it doesn't mean you "know" other cultures but you merely get a "taste" of the culture. We also are far more knowledgable and involved in world events than you are otherwise you wouldn't be bitching about the USA meddling all the time, would you? Keep up the sarcasm, you just keep on proving my point of your severe resentment that the USA is a so-called "superpower" and you are, well not.

Posted by: jr at October 20, 2004 01:39 AM (mR349)

673 MADARMYWIFE,
I appreciate that your husband is risking his life but in my opinion and of course it is only my opinion, he should spend it with the family he took the time in making and not trying to destroy it. Money and possessions are nothing madarmywife without love and maybe oneday u might realise that.
Those videos are tragic but are showing real life and u r fortunate to see what really happens instead of listening to the governments lies. This could happen to ur husband and if u were terrified enough u would ask him to come back. this is nasty circumstances and i think everyone has the right to be selfish especially when everybody has one life and it should be lived. Jesus and god are not even in the equasion if they were there and what religious people say they are then this wouldnt be happening. THEY ARE NOT SAVING THE LIVES OF THESE VICTIMS IF THEY EXIST THEY ARE PROTECTING THESE VICIOUS MURDERERS!

Posted by: lauraemerick at October 20, 2004 07:33 AM (N9WQo)

674 I've heard recent comments, that the duties of a military alliance require that we give the US the troops they need. This assistance would free yet more American troops to join the assault on Fallujah.
So far as I am aware, Fallujah is an Iraqi city with vast population of ordinary families. By day and by night they have been bombarded by American warplanes and helicopter gunships. When similar treatment is meted out by the Israelis to the Palestinians in the Gaza strip, Jack Straw protests that this is "disproportionate", as indeed it is. It is also in direct contravention of intrnational law.
If we agree to America's request we will be aiding and abetting the US in ever more heinous crimes against the beleaguered Iraqi people.
Others will remind us of the commitments which friendship involves. But frienship should not demand blind loyalty. True friends point out the questionable morality or legality of an action and then withdraw.
If Mr Bush is so convinced of the rectitude of his strategy, then he will surely have no qualms in calling up yet more of his own troops? Presumably his avid Republican supporters would welcome his call to arms.

Posted by: Naomi at October 20, 2004 08:03 AM (I//H3)

675 Yes Naomi, well said. Let's focus on the realities of deploying a battalion of British infantry to support the US forces near Baghdad. The US army has wholly inadequate ground forces for the task they have been asked to undertake. But they have approximately 130,000 soldiers in theatre. How much difference can a battalion battle group of 650 men make?
The purpose of this request is obvious. First, to provide a figleaf for this wholly illegal war to assist the re-election of the US president. Second, to embroil British forces deeper into the war. It is clear that the UK is yet again being used by the Bush administration as a pawn in its game.
How long will the British parliament permit this manipulation of this country to persist?
Perhaps Ukip would care to focus on this as an example of loss of British sovereignty.

Posted by: Will at October 20, 2004 08:20 AM (I//H3)

676 As an Englishman and proud of both my countries and the western hemispheres achievements I can honestly say that my following text is exactly how I feel about the MURDERS of fellow Brit Ken Bigley and our American cousins. To the COWARDS who wear their girly scarfs and carry their little guns...you may be heros to your people but remember some of "your" people are in the UK. There WILL be reprisals for your actions. Be prepapred for counter actions. Look in the mirror and see what a filthy PIG of a person you and your fellows are. You can hold your head high with the likes of...Hitler, Hess, Stalin et al. You are the product of a rat infested country with a barbaric ideology that certainly suggests that you and your race are most definately sub human. Your religion suggest that paradise awaits you in heaven so, why don't you save us the expesnse of wasting bullets on you and just kill your selfs now and see if allah is waiting for you. Of course you won't do that will you, because you are COWARDS. Why don't you fight like real men, oh you can'y because you are not. Even western terrorist groups like the IRA and ETA do not resort to such barabric murder practices as your kind commit. Would be interesting to see how your loathsome lot would fair against a western terorist group, well we know don't we..you would lose hands down because your lot can't fight unless your opponent is chained up and blindfolded, bet it won't be long before you start beheading women and children, may be throw in a few babies too. Gosh your parents must be so pround of your actions, But look in the mirror, what do you see, a weak and impotent sham ofd a man, do us all a favour skulk back into the cesspool you call a country, lay down and do us all a favour and die! I will pray to my christian God each night and ask that he allow the devil to give you and all your scum cancer of the brain..please die soon. Keep your disgusting and immoral practices locked inside your weak and soon to be dead heads. Western, British and PROUD!

Posted by: James Britton at October 20, 2004 08:26 AM (pT2rh)

677 With reference to the last two posts. Why should it be down to America alone to make the "long-expected full-scale ground assault on Falluja",which is the strong-hold of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Tawhid wal Jihad group, which killed British hostage Kenneth Bigley? Must the American's do our dirty work for us?

Posted by: Alastair at October 20, 2004 08:31 AM (I//H3)

678 Alastair, our Defence Secretary says "Britain would be failing in its duty as an ally, if we did not accede to the Americans' request for troops".
The American's want these extra troops so that they can launch an all-out attack on Fallujah, but they are stuck in a hopeless groove, meeting violence with more violence, outraging more Iraqis every day and confirming the views of those who portray them as unholy destroyers and killers.
Is it not our first duty as allies of the Americans to do everything in our power, when we see them about to embark on a course of action which is likely to be disastrous for them as well as for Iraq, to persuade them to change course?

Posted by: Will at October 20, 2004 08:47 AM (I//H3)

679 If the commons does not shortly vote on this new Iraq crisis provoked by the ill-judged US military request, it will give the clearest signal to the already none-too-impressed British electorate that it really is irrelevant. It should vote without delay on a motion to defer an answer to the US until after the presidential elections.

Posted by: peter at October 20, 2004 08:56 AM (I//H3)

680 I'm in agreement with regards to Naomi and Will's comments. As a US citizen who has lived in Britain, I want to plead with both the British government and people not to give in to the cynical tactic being employed by our president. I am sure people are aware of our much higher casualty rate. One of Kerry's criticisms of Bush's Iraq policy is that he ignores the rest of the world's advice and, possibly because he snubbed some potential allies last year, 90% of the death rate is sustained by the US. Isn't it obvious that Bush's request to send British troops into harm's way now is a blatant attempt to negate Kerry's charge. Your soldiers have done enough to prove the UK is a staunch ally.

Posted by: Eileen at October 20, 2004 10:12 AM (ec1Mq)

681 Message to Coogie, James, and the likes of them:

You want FACTS and the TRUTH?

FACT: You never fought a war

FACT: You don't know anyone fighting a war

FACT: You haven't lost a loved one to a war

FACT: Your perception of the meaning of the words "attack" and "invasion" are not the same

FACT: You believe whatever news media propaganda/hype your people are being fed over there

FACT: You have never been to Iraq and have seen what's really going on there

FACT: You continue your lame argument about the US "illegally invading" Iraq and it's getting old

FACT: Your views, generalizations, comments, perceptions are no more than opinions, or information you have heard/read NOT from actual situations.

Wanna know what an illegal invasion is? 9/11, USS Cole, Embassy in Africa, twin towers bombing in '93, and people from all over the mideast who have been entering the US with intent to harm us. That is also a FACT...they have been arriving in droves since the early 80s (after the Iran situation).

The problem is not with Bush, but with our government during that time; we did NOT check out these people that "illegally" came into our country. Meanwhile, they set up residences, opened up bank accounts to support their cause: the destruction of America! These people don't want anything from us, except to destroy western civilization and the freedoms it represents.

The people of Iraq, for the most part, welcomed the soldiers there with open arms. They told us that terrorism was rampant WAY BEFORE we saw those atrocious beheading videos! It is not a direct result of the Us "invasion" of Iraq....yet you continue to believe it is because THAT IS WHAT YOU'VE HEARD OR READ....these people have lived it!

You don't hear about the many soldiers who carry scores of children away from bombing sites....bombings incidentally that have gone off as a result of IRAQI suicide bombers, their OWN people!

We are not intentionally invaded innocent people....we do not say, "oh look, there's a hospital, let's bomb it"...but yet the "illegal invasion" on 9/11 purposefully took out innocent people!

To say that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 is another folly you can continue to believe as well.

Oh, and a few more FACTS!

FACT: when pests come into your home, you exterminate them all, you don't snuff out a few.

FACT: you want to be right so much, you are willing to play with words to suit your argument....telling posters that an "attack" on 9/11 was NOT an invasion is preposterous.

I am abhorred that I don't get the support for being there from this blog, but then again, you are only a small minority (thank God!) who are against the Iraq situation and would no more comment on it, had your country not become involved.

Don't bother responding because my mind is at peace, because I was THERE and SAW, you can continue on with your lame arguments, repetitive rantings about "illegal invasion" and have a nice life, drinking your tea. I won't be here to read your comments.

Just thought it was time for the TRUTH and the real FACTS, not your "opinions" and distorted views of the facts.

Posted by: fightingsoldier at October 20, 2004 10:31 AM (ptOpl)

682 'fighting soldier', with regards to your comments: "generalizations; perceptions;opinions or information's". I am an ex-officer of the British army(parachute regiment). I strongly disagree with the above mentioned comments. I have served in Iraq. So don't be to quick to judge. Hounorable people can have different views. And as you can see from my previous posts, mine differ from yours. I am of the view, that this war is illegal, and would suggest that the British should pull out.

Posted by: Will at October 20, 2004 10:59 AM (ec1Mq)

683 Will, I have no military experience, and no first-hand knowledge of the situation in Iraq. However, to say that we will deploy troops to one area of a country but not another on safety grounds is surely to adopt a weak and incoherent position that can only offer encouragement to the opposing forces. If we still believe in our mission in Iraq, we have to be committed.

Posted by: Alastair at October 20, 2004 11:11 AM (ec1Mq)

684 Alastair: The Black Watch were presumably sent to Iraq because the British commander on the spot considered their presence was necessary either for deployment in the Basra area or as an essential reserve available to him.
If this is the case, how can they now be sent elsewhere without detriment to the British force in the south? If the British commander does not require them, they should not have been sent out in the first place.

Posted by: Will at October 20, 2004 11:21 AM (ec1Mq)

685 lauraemerick,
forgive me if I gave you the impression that my husband and I are rich,,,,,,,,we are not fighting for things or possessions unless you condsider our children things.......we are fighting and making a stand against terrorism,

My husband can't just decide to come home and walk away I think that is called awol.....not very honorable in our country,,,,he has too much pride and he is there for a reason that will continue to be debated on this blog....

As far as judging God himself, I don't think I would go there, God did not make the terrorist, God did not bring abuse, molesters, murderers, and torture to the world, I do believe that was Satan,,,,,,,,,,allah is a false God......Satan will have his day in hell just like the hell Mr. Bigley, Mr. ARmstrong, Mr. Hensley, Mr.Berg, Mr. Johnson and so forth as well as those who lost their lives on 9-11 as well as the other terror plots,,,,,,,,,,THAT ALL HAVE A CONNECTION TO IRAQ, A COUNTRY THAT HARBORED AND TAUGHT TERRORIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOD BLESS THE BRITISH AND AMERICAN FORCES
GOD BLESS OUR PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH
GOD HELP US IN THE FIGHT AGAINST TERRORISM

Posted by: MADARMYWIFE at October 20, 2004 01:32 PM (WIoyp)

686 Today was the 1st time that I saw any pictures or any pictures taken from the video of Kens death (R.I.P) and my heart bleeds for what his family must be going through i cant imagine having to worrie about one of my family members like they did let alone have to watch the sickist fucking video of their deaths!!! Tony Blair needs to sort this country out! I think that he should listen to what people are saying and not go and help G.Wank.face.Bush! This was not our countries problem but now look where it has got us sending inocent people out their to risk their lives to save another fucking country!!!!! Thats all i have to say for now and im only 15!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Laura, 15 at October 20, 2004 01:39 PM (IZF8l)

687 I am proud of you fighting soilder!!!!!!!!! there are alot more proud of you than you think...

thank you for using words that make sense, that you didn't copy out of another sight to make you sound like a wanna be professor of history as most of the brits do on here, but what else do they have to do, but read pretend they have a life or that their words would actually make a difference.......you made a difference, you were there actually doing something with your life to help your fellow soilders no matter what country they were from and the iraqi children and innocents that needed you.......The only thing I think would change any of their minds on here about it being some kind of illegal invasion is if it was them getting their head sawed off, I do think they would want you there to help them or atleast look for them........and before you brit, anti americans start saying no one would be getting their head sawed off if we werent' there, well the people who were crushed under the towers, the innocent children in Russia, the iraqis that were tortured and children kidnaped daily.... etc etc etc......would think a bit differently,,,,

why don't you guys try to sound like human beings instead of trying to look up words in the dictionary to out smart eachother,,,that is so funny.........

God Bless you Fighting Soilder,

Posted by: madarmywife at October 20, 2004 02:00 PM (WIoyp)

688 fightingsoldier

I suspect that you are probably reading this. I will keep my response to your last (chance would be a fine thing) brief:-

You have a very warped sense of reality. Shell-shock is it?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 02:08 PM (ZRCkZ)

689 madarmywife

Just what 'difference' do you think fightingsoldier has mad. I would really be interested to know.

Iraq is still in turmoil - FACT

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 02:11 PM (ZRCkZ)

690 COOqarUK...I don't know whether you seen the Prime Minister's mauling of Charles Kennedy at PMs Questions last week on justification for the war on Iraq? It was long overdue. For months we have had the antiwar lobby seizing on every new fact that has emerged in the weapons of mass destruction(WMD) saga as justification for their opposition to the conflict.
Now that the Iraq Survey Group has delivered its final report, we can at last examine the situation that would now prevail if Charles Kennedy, Robin Cook et al had had their way in March 2003.
The inspectors (who were only in Iraq as a result of massive US-UK troop deployment) would have had more time to allow Saddam to demonstrate his compliance with UN resolutions. This, we now know, he would have been able to do. What Hans Blix would not have discoverd, however, was Saddam's intention to continue to develop WMD once sanctions were lifted.
Thus we would now have Saddam in power, the UN satisfied, and every prospect of oil revenues in full flow to fund WMD production along with the means of their long-range delivery.

Posted by: Ron at October 20, 2004 03:14 PM (A/BZq)

691 "Saddam's intention to continue to develop WMD once sanctions were lifted."

Evidence please.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 03:18 PM (60fio)

692 Read the report.

Posted by: Ron at October 20, 2004 03:36 PM (zehtz)

693 The report is useless to me. An illegal invasion took place before Saddam's compliance / the lifting of sanctions, so the FACT of the matter is... we will NEVER know for sure.

Next please...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 03:45 PM (uvkof)

694 Each military conflict produces its own particular problems but the MPs who criticised the possible redeployment of some British forces in Iraq did themselves no credit.
From the comparative safety of the chamber of the House of Commons they apparently found it easy to forget the immense contribution and sacrifice made by men and women of the US as our allies in the First and Second World Wars and in the Korean War. The Secretary of State for Defence was right that being an ally means full commitment as opposed to the ability to choose an easy option when that is convenient.

Posted by: Alastair at October 20, 2004 03:51 PM (zehtz)

695 I am startled by much of the reaction to the proposed redeployment of some UK troops. Are they involved in a seperate war from the other members of the alliance, or are they there to assist the Iraqis in ejecting insurgent forces so that they can proceed peacefully towards establishing a democratic government? If it is the latter, there is no question that they should be deployed wherever they are most needed. The support and encouragement our soldiers need to help them to complete the task is pitifully lacking here at home(UK).

Posted by: george at October 20, 2004 04:06 PM (zehtz)

696 Alastair, are you a complete twat or on a wind-up mission?

America did not get involved in WWI until near its end.

America did not get involved in WWII until it was attacked at Pearl Harbor.

The Korean War was an American war.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 04:11 PM (uvkof)

697 George: Advocating war on the cynical Left is yet another dispiriting articulation of the 'with us or against us' mentality. I view myself as a liberal democrat and believe that the military operation in Afghanistan was right, and that the recent elections were an astonishing achievement.
Do I then have to accept that the war in Iraq was justified? Going into Iraq has been a disastrous diversion from the War on Terror and the British public were woefully misled about the reasons for going to war. Such dishonesty is a poor example of democracy at work, but that does not mean that we give up the fight to apply it as fairly as possible.

Posted by: Will at October 20, 2004 04:17 PM (zehtz)

698 Tony Blair is a poor example of democracy at work

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 04:26 PM (uvkof)

699 A loan of 650 British troops is negligible. But this could be the thin end of the wedge. Having agreed to 650, it will be harder to refuse the next request for more.

Posted by: Ian at October 20, 2004 04:33 PM (zehtz)

700 Its been stated that: More gruesome has been the talk in some US circles of the need for British troops to share more of the load. There have been 68 British troops killed compared to 1,062 American. With 138,000 US troops in theatre, they have lost one in 130. With our 8,500, we have lost one in 125.

Posted by: Ian at October 20, 2004 04:43 PM (zehtz)

701 Ian, I think your figures are a little out of date. The Americans have lost 1102 according to the latest figures that I have access to.

That would also give a ratio of 1:125

Posted by: C00garUK at October 20, 2004 04:53 PM (uvkof)

702 In December 2002 the Iraqi Government delivered a 12,000-page dossier to the UN. A US official described the omissions in the dossier as "big enough to drive a tank through". The Iraqis, naturally, denied this. Was this the only dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that was true?

Posted by: Ian at October 20, 2004 04:57 PM (zehtz)

703 Cooguk you sound like a broken recording. You are so gullible, I mean anyone with half a brain cell can deduce that someone like Sadaam hid or destroyed his WMD's, he's not going to just leave them lying around. To those of you Brits bitching about America, how many Americans have been killed in wars that your continent has created. Answer--plenty. So shut up and stop whining. If you have a problem with Iraq, go bitch to your prime minister or politicians ,not to us. You people are so stupid and naive that you bore many Americans. No wonder Hitler took over half your continent before you realized it. So unless you want to offer condolences to Mr. Bigley--RIP Mr. Bigley, than piss off and stop boring everyone on here with your gullibility.

Posted by: jr at October 20, 2004 05:41 PM (mR349)

704 jr

However much it 'bores' you, I have a right to free speech. And I will continue to 'attack' (note the correct terminoogy as opposed to 'invade') this illegal war and anyone who supports it until both our respective governments apologise for it - which they will have to do eventually.

On the subject of WMDs, wasn't Saddam SUPPOSED to have destroyed them? All the evidence points to the fact that he had indeed done so, leading to the conclusion - for anyone in your words 'with half a brain cell' - to deduce that there was absolutley no justification for the illegal invasion of Iraq and the subsequent illegal occupation.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 21, 2004 12:23 AM (AiBFY)

705 My God Cooguk, you should join the police department as a detective. Imagine folks. Detective Coog is assigned to investigate a man believed to be running an illegal drug lab in his home. The man has a long and proven history of running an illegal drug lab, numerous undercover cops say he is running a drug lab based on surveillence, documents are found strongly indicating he is running a drug lab and the man in question is given two months advanced notice that a drug raid will take place. So 2 months later, the police raid the home and SURPRISE find no drugs or equipment to make drugs. Shocking. The man then claims he didn't have drugs and wasn't illegally making them. Well, Detective Cooguk would close the case citing that since no drugs or equipment to make them was found and the man denied it, must be true. Yep, CoogUk should be a detective. lol Well, folk I'm outta here for good, this it too damn funny.

Posted by: JR at October 21, 2004 02:05 AM (mR349)

706 MADARMYWIFE!
ur ignorance infuriates me! Because you are not rich doesn't mean that your husband should be out there, rich doesn't even enter this equasion. How can you believe that god created 1 human being but not the other? That is ridiculous. You need to take a long hard look at yourself and decide what you really want from your life! I cannot see your side of this debate and as for your husband... if he wants to risk his life due to pure stupidity and stubborness then let him! It is only his childrens lives he will be ruining as you 2 obviously dont seem to care!

Posted by: lauraemerick at October 22, 2004 03:15 AM (ZnFej)

707 LAURA,15,
I totally agree all this death and abuse has only began due to the pure stupidity of tony blair and his fantasies to look and feel like a hero. How can anybody stick up for that man when he has so much blood on his hands?! All I want is for everybody to live peacefully and not have to worry whether they're going to be murdered the next day, it is sickening.

Posted by: lauraemerick at October 22, 2004 03:26 AM (ZnFej)

708 Well Lauraemerick, every country has and needs a military because of the Hitlers of the world. "Madarmywife's" husband isn't choosing to risk his life, he has to go where he is sent. This famous quote about the military says it all--'We can sleep peacefully in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to protect us from those who wish to do us harm." Try remembering this before you criticize people like "madarmywife's" husband.

Posted by: mart at October 22, 2004 06:05 AM (JQymy)

709 lauraemerick,
what the hell are you talking about? where did you get that I said God only created one type of person, are you insane? You are the one that said we only cared about things and possesions, you are nuts lady!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My husband is doing his duty and making the world a safer place for his family, you can insult us all you want, it only shows your weakness.......

God created and loves all of us, even you!
God bless America and George Bush,
save us from people like this with such little understanding of how unsafe the world really is, and may they wake up out of their fairy tales........

thank you mart

Posted by: madarmywife at October 22, 2004 12:52 PM (H6F7a)

710 as for Laura15, I don't debate with minors. I will let lauraemerick do that, same level of understanding, do the terrorist not cause death on innocent people daily in the world? Where have you little girls been besides playing with barbies or in your teeny bopper chat rooms....

you two should be ashamed of your lack of loyalty to your country, time and maturity will help you there, come back when you have aged a few years and had some college behind you...

Hey Coogar, where are you today? see you got bashed some last night.....wheres the sticks and stones...this woman lauraemerick is nutts,,,I miss your more intelligent insults..he he

Posted by: madarmywife at October 22, 2004 12:59 PM (H6F7a)

711 lauremerick,
let me clarify for your hard to understand mind,,,,God didn't create the terrorist or the sin,,,,,,,,Satan is it's maker..........God created all people yes, but not what they become!!!!!!!!!!!!!!comprehend?????

Do you really think all the torture and abuse from terrorist just started when we went to Iraq,,,,,,,come on, I can't believe you would be that nieve??????????

come on you can do better than that,,,,!!!

Do you know what infidels are? according to the Kuran??? thats me and you babe and everyone else that doesn't bow to Allah...they want to saw all our heads off, they don't care what country we are in,,,,,,,,,,,,we(my husband and the brave coalition) just happen to be knocking on their backdoor and saving them another trip to our house...........
come on girl,,,,wake up......!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 22, 2004 01:09 PM (H6F7a)

712 "blairs fantasies of being a hero" cause all the torture and killings??????? grow up

"All I want is for everbody to live peacefully and not worry if they are going to be murdered the next day"
as stated by lauraemerick as what she wants???

I do believe that is the whole purpose of the fight agains terrorism?

you are pretty screwed up lauraemerick

good luck to you and your husband madarmywife

revenge for mr. bigley is a must, kill the fuckers

Posted by: alexthegreat at October 22, 2004 01:20 PM (H6F7a)

713 whats up????????????????????
what the heck is this????????????????

stop feeling sorry for yourself brits,
kick their ass america!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: nerd in disguise at October 22, 2004 01:24 PM (H6F7a)

714 I just watched the video and the other two also and I can't believe they did that, they are monsters. I am sick on my stomach. But more sick at all the cutting down of the soilders and our prime minister Mr. Blair. I am proud of him and I adamire all the soilders bravery no matter what country they are from. I am proud that we have people to stand up for us and help keep us safe.
Godspeed to all the military forces. I am sure no one wants to be away from the family. that is sad.

cindy

Posted by: tinkerbell at October 22, 2004 01:29 PM (H6F7a)

715 Thank you alexthegreat
we appreciate that

no the soilders don't want to be away from their children, cindy

Posted by: madarmywife at October 22, 2004 01:35 PM (H6F7a)

716 nerd,
all us brits don't feel sorry for ourselves. I think there are as many americans on here that put down their President as the ones that don't.

I am all for the fight against terrorism and I don't see it as a war, we have to start taking care of our people too. Whoever said they just wanted peace again well there never was a safe place before and it was getting worse. Just never affected anyone to the extent that it does now, we were all blind to how easy a targets we are.

well have to get back to work
cindy

Posted by: tinkerbell at October 22, 2004 01:42 PM (H6F7a)

717 fuck all you soilder bashers i had friends die for you you ungrateful bastards and cowards

Posted by: uniformmonk at October 22, 2004 01:48 PM (H6F7a)

718 I think it is awful what they are doing to Margaret Hassan, I didn't think they killed women or children, isn't it against their Kuran or Allah teachings? I knew they took her to try and keep Blair from sending the extra troops. I do pray for her safety. No one is safe that has been made certain.

Hey coogar, they say margaret is Irish-British-Iraqi.....why do they seperate the Irish and British, isn't Ireland in Britain? can you explain...thanks...

Hey Mart,
the common sense verses fact comment, that was good...your right it is common sense,

Posted by: madarmywife at October 22, 2004 02:17 PM (H6F7a)

719 For COOqarUK: The mandarin's mandarin, Lord Butler was asked directly recently whether Parliament and the British public were misled about the intelligence, he said: "You were told the truth by the Prime Minister when he said he believed Saddam had these weapons, so did 90 per cent of the rest of the world. Hans Blix believed it.
"The criticism is that you were not told, as I believe you should have been, that the intelligence underlining that was thin. That is the point, do not exaggerate the extent, to which people were misled."

Posted by: Ron at October 22, 2004 02:59 PM (JsrrN)

720 Could it be that the US military have finally realised that the best assault troops and the best peacekeeping troops are one of the same, and are known as the British Army?

Posted by: Will at October 22, 2004 03:28 PM (JsrrN)

721 Have been unable to get on here for a while and now I have it seems some posts (not mine), have disappeared. jr will be sadly missed... NOT. Amazing how people give up so easily when losing the argument!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 03:40 PM (AeVyr)

722 Those who believe that the American request to move British troops into harm's way does not have a direct link to the presidential election are not bothering to listen to the Bush/Kerry debates.
It is obvious to us here in the US that George W Bush wants to deflate John Kerry's point that the casualty rate, which is 90 per cent American, is proof that the "coalition" of 30 countries is a farce. How better to do it than move some non-Americans into a position where they are guaranteed to be injured or die? Are you all in the UK really willing to kill off some of your own people to advance the political career of the worst American president in history?

Posted by: Paul Barwick at October 22, 2004 03:48 PM (JsrrN)

723 'Paul Barwick', I suggest you look at the last post from 'Will'.

Posted by: kev at October 22, 2004 03:53 PM (JsrrN)

724 "Hey coogar, they say margaret is Irish-British-Iraqi.....why do they seperate the Irish and British, isn't Ireland in Britain? can you explain...thanks..."

madarmywife

I am happy to explain, even to one of my 'enemies'. It also gives me the opportunity to correct an earlier mistake of mine.

Margaret was born in Dublin, which is in Ireland, formerly known as southern Ireland or Eire. Ireland have only recently bestowed citizenship on her. Previously she was a dual-national: British-Iraqi. I have no idea how where her entitlement to British citizenship comes from, I made the mistake earlier of assuming (as she was born in Dublin) that she was Irish-Iraqi when it fact she is British-Iraqi.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom (or Britain as you refer to it).

I will not go further into the political situation in Ireland, however I am sure that an extremist or two will come on in an attempt to refute the facts that I outline above. I have no problem with Irish people living in Britain DISAGREEING with Northern Ireland being part of Britain bit the FACT remains that it IS.

This will probably be of little interest to you Americans, but for instance many countries in Europe recently adopted the single currency, the 'Euro' however Britain (and therefore Northern Ireland) kept its Pound. Ireland moved from The 'Irish Pound' (or 'Punt') to the Euro, another example that demonstrates Ireland is entirely separate from the UK.

Hope all that makes sense, I am a little tired.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 03:57 PM (AeVyr)

725 Waiting for a response COOqarUK....

Posted by: Ron at October 22, 2004 03:59 PM (JsrrN)

726 So COOqarUK, can we take it that you are the only, mandarin's mandarin mandarin mandarin, in the whole of the UK? If so what are you doing on hear?

Posted by: Ron at October 22, 2004 04:05 PM (JsrrN)

727 Exactly when did Lord Butler say that? I only ask because it has since become very clear that Tony Blair LIED.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 04:06 PM (AeVyr)

728 here

Posted by: Ron at October 22, 2004 04:07 PM (JsrrN)

729 Ron

There has been an awful lot of water under the bridge since the Butler report. I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

Tony Blair's lies are indefensible.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 04:09 PM (AeVyr)

730 Commons select commitee. Three day's ago. Also have you read Lord Butler's report?

Posted by: Ron at October 22, 2004 04:13 PM (JsrrN)

731 If you have not read his report COOqarUK, then I suggest you do, it would help. Thankyou and bye.

Posted by: Ron at October 22, 2004 04:16 PM (JsrrN)

732 "Have been unable to get on here for awhile now"...stated CoogarUK...gee, too bad you found your way back.

You are the worst representation of your country I've ever seen, I only hope that the rest of Britian aren't as rude, obnoxious, stubborn, narrow minded and evasive as you show yourself to be.

Anyone who has an opposing view or shows you the source of their information is wrong and stupid. You are, as other posters have mentioned, like a broken record.

Had Bush or Blair stated a reason to your liking, would it then be okay to attack that country?

Is there ever REALLY a good "reason", other than the fact that we need to defend ourselves against the scourge that is called terrorism?

Posted by: JN at October 22, 2004 04:30 PM (ptOpl)

733 Three days ago my arse! The Butler report was published on 14th July!!!

Goodbye Ron, we could do with less like you on here attempting to distort the TRUTH!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 04:47 PM (AeVyr)

734 JN

I am only interested in the truth, facts, justice.

If you are not happy with that, then go away.

If you wish to say, I can assure you that you will lose the argument. Many have tried to defend the lies and misinformation that led to the illegal invasion and subsequent invasion of Iraq but have failed because the FACTS back up my opinions.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 04:52 PM (AeVyr)

735 "You are the worst representation of your country I've ever seen"... stated JN

No, the accolade for the worst representation of my country has to go to the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, whose lies and deceit resulted in our involvement with the illegal US-led invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 05:07 PM (AeVyr)

736 Thanks for the info coogar,
I have decided to do a little surfing on the subject and find it of interest. What do you think will become of Margaret? Do you think it will change anything? I know it is hard to tell as it seems all are doomed when used like this in the terrorist propaganda. It is a sad thing to watch on television, I really thought Mr. Bigley because he was not American would have survived somehow, the same I thought of Margaret being British turned Iraqi and a woman.
I really don't understand why we need the extra British troops, I can see your veiw in politics, but there is less than two weeks till the election, are you expecting several british casualties in that short length of time? I thought they were taking over in more secure areas.....
also, what do you think of all the links and headlines pertaining to Senator Kerry as being endorsed by the terrorist? They know he is scared so they say?

ps...whats that about enemies??? can friends not oppose or have a different opinion than yours??

Posted by: madarmywife at October 22, 2004 05:13 PM (iQg+A)

737 "ps...whats that about enemies??? can friends not oppose or have a different opinion than yours??"

Yes, of course. But many of the pro-war lobby on here seem to hate me. That's their problem, not mine.

If the past is anything to go by, the only thing Margaret would appear to have going for her is the fact that she is a woman.

As far as the redeployment of British troops further north, I only recall ever making one comment... the fact that they will ultimately under US control. I think you are confusing some of the comments from others when attributing them to me.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 05:22 PM (AeVyr)

738 From what I have learned of the American psychie I fear that they are about to vote Bush back in.

That would bring the world nearer to its end rather than making it a safer place, in my opinion.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 05:26 PM (AeVyr)

739 Hey, Xavier Cougar "CoogarUK", a/k/a jerkoff scumbag.

I am a retired from the Navy and it disgusts me to see how you've been carrying on and being so anti-government, ant-Bush, anti-anything that's for the war. I'm not just talking iraq, I mean all the so called countries that are hiding terrorists.

If someone came into your home in the middle of the night and hogtied your wife and kids, would you sit back and do nothing and lament on the invaders' sad little lives, and try to reason with them while your loved ones' heads are being sawed off?

What is the right reason as the other poster above said? Is there a right or wrong? It's fuckin' war. I stand behind my President and YOUR leader. If we sat back and did nothing, as you, asshole, are, safely tucked away in your lovely English home, drinking tea at your computer, would you then criticize them for being pansies and not standing up to these bastards?

Iraq is, was and always will be a threat, that's a fact so are the other mid east countries that are harboring terrorists.

Keep spewing your anti-American shit. If you feel so badly for the hostages and are so against this war, why don't you volunteer going to iraq and standing before the terrorists' blade and take the cut, and tell Zarqawi you would rather "die than fight".

You bleeding heart limey.

Posted by: InThe Navy at October 22, 2004 05:26 PM (ptOpl)

740 In The Navy

Insult me all you like. it's all you pro-war folk appear to be successful at.

Note that I rarely have to resort to such tactics, as I have truth and justice on my side.

I'm talking Iraq. More specifically the illegal US invasion and occupation of Iraq.

"Iraq is, was and always will be a threat"

That's a lie.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 05:31 PM (AeVyr)

741 come on coog, you know Iraq was a threat, why would you think any different?

funny that "In the Navy" sounds like some of my previous comments,,,,,you go Navy!!!! did I ever tell you I did 4 years in the Navy myself many years ago??? Norfolk Virginia HM12 Sea Dragons

anyway, sorry coog I got you confused with someone else about the extra troops , that was in reference to Paul Barwick's post,which didn't make sense considering the time table.

Yesterday they said they didn't know the motive of Margaret's ubduction, but we already knew it was because of Blair agreeing to the extra troops, didn't take a genious to figure that out when she was first kidnapped. God be with her and may a miracle happen

Posted by: madarmywife at October 22, 2004 05:51 PM (iQg+A)

742 We can go on and on about Iraq forever however the bottom line is this--our intelligence (CIA) and the intelligence of several European countries including Britain stated that Hussein either had WMD's including chemicals, or was trying to get WMD's and was also aiding/training terrorists. Combine this with the fact that he hates the USA and has a long history of aggression and brutality. As such, he was believed to be a threat to our nation's safety. If our government believes someone to be a threat to our safety, then it is our government's job and right to act on that threat regardless of whether the rest of the world or the UN approves. If you have a problem with Britain's involvement CoogerUK, then take that up with you own government.

Posted by: mart at October 22, 2004 05:55 PM (mR349)

743 "our intelligence (CIA) and the intelligence of several European countries including Britain stated that Hussein either had WMD's including chemicals, or was trying to get WMD's and was also aiding/training terrorists."

But the intelligence was WRONG.

Wouldn't have mattered anyway, USA was hell-bent on the illegal invasion and would've proceeded whatever.

The so-called 'intelligence' was a smoke-screen and this has since been proved beyond a doubt.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:00 PM (AeVyr)

744 "come on coog, you know Iraq was a threat"

To whom exactly? And how?

Show me some evidence... Ooops, you can't cos there isn't any.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:02 PM (AeVyr)

745 "If you have a problem with Britain's involvement CoogerUK, then take that up with you own government."

Trouble is, Mart, I also have a problem with the US's involvement, firstly because it is ILLEGAL and further because it has made the world much more UNSAFE.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:04 PM (AeVyr)

746 Hey Coog,

What facts? I have seen people quote sources, soldiers that are fighting there in Iraq and see for themselves (have you?) and you STILL carry on with your lame arguments.

Mart is right...go complain to Blair about your country's involvement and leave us the hell alone to snuff these bastards out.

Saddam was a threat, WMD or no WMD and surely would have attacked us. Are you going to wait for the tornado to strike or are you going to do something about it and protect your home and family?

I don't know where you're coming off by mentioning "facts" all the time....military people have come on here telling you what it's like over there, to me that's more FACT that what anything you READ OR HEAR on the news will admit.

You have been on this blog a long time, telling the same thing over and over again. You will never be convinced if God himself came down and told you Iraq was a threat.

You wouldn't relent even if you knew the "truth", so go start your own blog somewhere in tea turf and bitch and whine with your limey lads and your govt. about how wrong this all was.

Tally ho.

Posted by: InThe Navy at October 22, 2004 06:06 PM (ptOpl)

747 "Saddam was a threat, WMD or no WMD and surely would have attacked us."

Bollocks!

And I have no intention of voluntarily leaving this blog, so go stuff that up your illegal war, illegal occupation ass!!!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:12 PM (AeVyr)

748 hi inthenavy don't bother trying to discuss anything with coogarUK, he only knows one verse, "illegal invasion" and nothing you say or do will convince him that US was justified in invading Iraq.

We were there, we saw, WE know the truth, who give a fuck if HE wants to believe his own facts. He has not proved to us that it was NOT an illegal invasion. Saddam's been murdering his own people for years before we took him out, and we would've been next.

Coog, were you going to wait until he attacked first? There may have been nothing left for us to do if he'd done that, have you ever thought about that?

You can't say shit you ain't fighting this war, ain't got no one lost in the war, you don't have a leg to stand on in this debate. You weren't there, you haven't seen.

Don't even bother responding anymore, inthenavy, I just posted this to let you know I'm with ya all the way, and if I am called again, I will go in a heartbeat.

God Bless America!!

Posted by: fightingsoldier at October 22, 2004 06:12 PM (ptOpl)

749 "nothing you say or do will convince him that US was justified in invading Iraq."

Because it wasn't.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:14 PM (AeVyr)

750 MESSAGE TO COOGAR UK;

HAHAHAH....LOOKS LIKE EVERYONE'S GANGING UP ON YOUR ARSE FINALLY. GIVE US PROOF, GIVE US FACTS, O MIGHTY ONE.

YOU GIVE BRITIAN A BAD NAME. YOU ARE A SCHOOL YARD BULLY AND HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE MILITARY, THE GOVERNMENT (YOURS OR USA'S) AND SOUND LIKE A LITTLE SISSY GIRL.

ARE ALL YOU BRIT FAIRIES SISSY'S??

WHEN BUSH WINS HE WILL GET OUR TROOPS HOME AND NUKE THE MOTHERFUCKAS. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO END THIS...TO END THEM.

BYE NOW.

Posted by: nuke-em-now at October 22, 2004 06:17 PM (ptOpl)

751 It just occurred to me...

There don't appear to be too many American civilians on here coming out in support of the war.

(ex-service personnel don't count)

Fighting is the only way you know how to resolve your differences. Suckers.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:19 PM (AeVyr)

752 Well well, more insults.

Is that because you're losing the argument?

Btw, you may not have noticed... the only way Bush is bringing your troops home is in body bags... 1103 and counting...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:22 PM (AeVyr)

753 nite nite madarmywife

At least you understand, even if you don't agree.

x

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:35 PM (AeVyr)

754 btw, nuke-em...

I am no sissy. I would take you on in hand-to-hand combat anytime. But only if it was justified. Not illegal, like your country's war with Iraq.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 22, 2004 06:47 PM (AeVyr)

755 No, the intelligence was not wrong but hypothetically if it were, our country went to war with the understanding that it was correct and was a threat so we are justified in acting on that threat. Exactly how is this war illegal???

Posted by: mart at October 22, 2004 10:22 PM (mR349)

756 How long is it going to take before the US get tired of Iraq and realise there are other dangerous countries out there. Iran, Jordan, Syria etc. They seem to have left Afghanistan pronto, no Bin Laden to be found. Im sure that Iraq wont be the last country to be illegally attacked. The terrorists are playing hide and seek and there is a damned big playground to hide in. What about what the Israelis are doing to the Palastinians? Is that only ok because Israel is backed by the US. They are slowly doing to the Palastinians what Hitler did to them.
Rock on COOqarUK...keeping your British cool as ever...and so what if Brits drink tea and live in nice little houses. We are geographically much nearer to the war than you lot across the Pond

Posted by: hilda ogden at October 23, 2004 03:49 AM (cSmtz)

757 Coogie and Hilda--dumb and dumber. *yawn*

Posted by: whatever at October 23, 2004 05:14 AM (a9oXI)

758 The Americans on here will never understand. They accuse me of being anti-American simply because of my stance against the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. Maybe if their country was illegally invaded they would understand better. And despite all the bleating about 9/11 and other attacks, these were NOT invasions. They were isolated attacks. Horrendous nevertheless.

I can understand the Americans being so angry. After all, their dummy war-mongering President has got them into a terrible mess that they're going to find it increasingly difficult to get out of, let alone recover from, for many generations to come.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 05:16 AM (+0dkj)

759 whatever...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 05:28 AM (+0dkj)

760 ....must be a yank...whatever

Posted by: hilda ogden at October 23, 2004 05:30 AM (cSmtz)

761 COOqarUK, again I ask you have you read the Butler report?????? I will again quote from the mandarin's mandarin himself from a Commons select committee, 4 DAY'S ago but please do not avoid the the issue. I would appreciate you interpretation of it. "The criticism is that you were not told, as I believe you should have been, that the intelligence underlining that was thin. That is the point, do not exaggerate the extent, to which people were misled."

Posted by: Ron at October 23, 2004 12:35 PM (D86Yj)

762 Would you like another quote? Lord Butler also said "that he believed that Mr Blair had acted in good faith when he claimed before the war that Saddam had stocks of chemical and biological weapons." When asked DIRECTLY whether Parliament and the public were misled about the intelligence. Well I suggest, you read my last post for the answer. Again no avoidence please.

Posted by: Ron at October 23, 2004 12:45 PM (D86Yj)

763 I thought you had left, but if that really is all you can muster, then bring it on.

My interpretation is simply that it really does speak for itself, comfirming people were misled, and that the true substance of the intelligence was intentionally covered up.

It cannot really cannot be open to any other interpretation, can it?

Maybe I could ask you a question... Why do you continue to come here and attempt to defend the British Government's (in particular Tony Blair's) lies and cover-ups put forward in order to justify America's illegal invasion (which Bush was hell-bent on irrespective of whether or not he had our support or whether his actions could be justified - which of course as time has proved they could not)

It would also help - if you insist upon putting forward sound-bites - that in future you present them in context.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 01:02 PM (MPNb5)

764 "you should have been (told), that the intelligence underlining that was thin"

"people were misled"

Good game this.

Next...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 01:10 PM (MPNb5)

765 Iraq Conflict May Have Driven Muslims into Arms of al-Qa'ida'

By Ben Russell
Independent
August 1, 2003

The war to topple Saddam Hussein may have damaged the campaign against international terrorism by driving Muslims into the arms of al-Qa'ida, an all-party committee of MPs said yesterday. The Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee said al-Qa'ida remained a "significant threat" to Britain, after hearing that the terrorist network may still have the loyalty of more than 17,000 militants in up to 60 countries.

In a report that raises questions about an important part of the justification for war, MPs said the campaign in Iraq might have "enhanced the appeal of al-Qa'ida to Muslims living in the Gulf region and elsewhere".

Tony Blair has repeatedly used the threat posed by Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and the danger that they might end up in the hands of terrorists to justify the war. But the all-party committee's unanimous report raised a string of fresh questions yesterday about the reasons for going to war. MPs said that the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction had not been reduced, two years after the start of the war on terror.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 01:14 PM (MPNb5)

766 I wait with anticipation also Ron.

HOPES FOR IRAQ.

Ten years hence, and despite people's misgivings, the end of an era of the Middle East tyrants may well be dated from George W. Bush's decision to invade Iraq.
Perhaps the truest reasons for the invasion were the immediate need to forcibly provide incentives for Arab leaders to rein in extremists and simultaneously to promote democracy as the ultimate solution in a chaotic region.
The Left have been quick to ridicule the latter, perhaps too comfortable in their belief that the Arab world is immune to democractic impulse or organization. But the seed-bed of democracy in Iraq and elsewhere in the region has already been prepared far more than is realized by films and other influences imported from the West. The internet, mobile phones and talk radio add yet more catalysts for change.
The enthusiasm of the Afghan election was an eye-opener for many; Iraq's coming election may astound.

Posted by: kev at October 23, 2004 01:14 PM (D86Yj)

767 I don't think Ron will stick around long, now that we are playing him at his own game.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 01:16 PM (MPNb5)

768 Iraq's coming election - if it even takes place - will be a complete sham.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 01:25 PM (MPNb5)

769 Madarmywife,
I couldnt give a fuck about god so do not push ur religion on me. I am not thick so do not talk2 me like I am! I have seen the videos too and am not nieve as to what goes on, I have the nightmares as well as you. Yes your husband is brave and the rest of the coalition but it is hard to comprehend that these men could die. everytime i hear some1 has been beheaded it makes my heart break for them, their families and our country.

Posted by: lauraemerick at October 23, 2004 02:54 PM (nuDup)

770 Hey coog,
batteries still going I see......good afternoon to you
I would rather debate on whats to come, we all already know there were many misleadings and mistakes, 'we have to take into consideration we are only informed or told what the media and government want us to hear.
It is a fact and common sense that we have a mess on our hands, the question now is how are we going to fix it, leaving Iraq would not be the answer, the terrorist are the ones illegally invading Iraq and other countries.
do you think it would have been illegal if the UN ok'd our so called invasion? and still no WMDs?

.....The fact now is we have to clean up the mess and next time use better judgement....
as far as the elections in Iraq, I feel it is too early and the country is in no way ready for that, I feel it is just a statement or action being made to the terrorist and world that we will go on no matter what............until the Iraqi people get a back bone of the their own, they will never have a democracy, that is where the five years will come in,,,,,,,,what is five years???it will take the next generation to make a change in Iraq.
God help us, because the brits and americans will be doing the babysitting....

Posted by: madarmywife at October 23, 2004 02:59 PM (vv1iL)

771 lauraemerick,
I don't believe in religion, only God, there is no religion in heaven and I don't push God on anyone, that of course is your own choice.
Lets come to an agreement we both feel for the poor men who lost their lives here as well as the others who will in the future because of this mess, maybe your right, maybe I should focus on my family, maybe I say all I do to justify it to me so I can deal with it all, I hate that innocent people are dying and my husband could be next just because he has to go where the government makes him. He didn't choose nor I to go through all this and I hate it all, I think you are all being to pursuade me that this was just all a big mistake and yes the world is now in turmoil because of it, we are born to our destiny and that was theirs,,,,,,,,I wish we could just take care of our own, I really do, you are all right
forgive me for my ignorance and misjudgement as well as insult

Posted by: madarmywife at October 23, 2004 03:10 PM (vv1iL)

772 u r not ignorant madarmywife nor have u misjudged the area i just have a heart and tend to wear it on my sleeve. I am an over emotional person and show it differently when i leave messages and for that I AM TRULY SORRY MADARMYWIFE

Posted by: laura emerick at October 23, 2004 03:28 PM (nuDup)

773 madarmywife

I think I LIKE you, even though we have differing (understatement) opinions over the war.

WILL you marry me?

Posted by: C00garUK at October 23, 2004 04:46 PM (U2G1P)

774 Laura emerick,
Thank you and I appreciate that, I have gotten myself into so much trouble speaking before I think, I too am very emotional, it has been my downfall many times. I think this is a very emotional time for all of us. So much confustion and anxiety.

Hey Coogar
now that was a surprise, boy have we come along way, although our bickering over the last month would prove our worthiness as a married couple..he he... Can we live in Scotland though??

Posted by: madarmywife at October 23, 2004 08:13 PM (Lsjkt)

775 No chance! Nor Ireland either.

I may be willing to give America a try, although I suspect that the FBI would probably be waiting at the airport for me

Posted by: C00garUK at October 24, 2004 05:35 AM (vLRN2)

776 Madarmywife,
I think this is a time that we are all allowed2 get a little crazy, its not good for us but it is our right and we can help. i regularly turn myself insane as urv probably noticed. just look after yourself and your children that is your role and you cant and wont fail. x

Posted by: laura emerick at October 24, 2004 07:29 AM (tXSrG)

777 Syria has Saddam's WMD. They were moving some into southern Lebanon and using the chemical weapons on the people of Darfur.

Keep believing what you've "heard" and "read", Mr. CooqarUK, and I'll believe the FACTS.

I've been lurking on this blog for sometime now and am having a nice chuckle over what you believe to be the "truth" and "facts"...yet when someone quotes a source or is over in Iraq and sees what's going on, you still don't believe it.

You just want to be right about everything and that's your privilege. And as for wanting someone to come forward that was in Iraq but is not in the military, let me add that I was over there, working on a project, along with Armstrong, Bigley and Hensley. They were wonderful men and I live with those images of their beheadings every day.

The Iraqi people have told us that these beheadings and atrocities have been going on a very long time, before the US occupation. I chose to get out, the others thought they would be safe, even though they had guards. I could no longer live like that.

Zarqawi's a Jordanian, but he holed up in Iraq and had affiliations with the Al Qaeda from the beginning.

Bush was right in going to Iraq, but his reasons for doing so were wrong. Too bad it's all come to this: people thinking it was an illegal invasion based on Bush's reasons for going there!

We know better. May God bring peace to the families of all those killed. They all were nice people and didn't deserve that.

Posted by: Truth_Hurts at October 24, 2004 09:24 AM (ptOpl)

778 COOqarUK, The Hutton Report, The Butler Report, etc. I don't believe you can get access to these very intresting reports. However, if you can get access to them, then I suggest you read them. These Law Lords, have access to far more FACTS then you can ever dream of, therfore I will except there interpretations, than your generalizations any-day. I would also consider, that you have not read these reports, That leaves you with your opinions, which of course you are entitled to, but they are merely opinions. I would suggest you state that, as your seem to like facts.

Posted by: kev at October 24, 2004 09:53 AM (cafC/)

779 Truth_Hurts

You make plenty of statements as if they were facts, without presenting a shred of evidence.

kev

I have read the Butler report. If that's all Blair has to cling onto, then God help him.

Rumsfeld recently admitted to there being no evidence of any direct links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, no WMDs whatsoever have been found since the illegal invasion took place... how long is it now?

You carry on with your versions of the 'truth' I'll continue forming my opinions based upon real evidence (or lack of it) rather than heresay.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 24, 2004 12:50 PM (LbKHy)

780 Truth_Hurts

At least you had the sense to value your own life above the money earned from those lucrative contracts, unlike your ex-collegaues.

For that, I take my hat off to you

Posted by: C00garUK at October 24, 2004 12:53 PM (LbKHy)

781 "...in the context of the policy option of regime change by military means, officials
noted that a full opinion would need to be sought from the Government’s Law Officers if
the policy option were to be taken further. The paper advised that regime change of itself
had no basis in international law. It noted the judgement of the JIC that there was no recent
evidence of Iraqi complicity with international terrorism, and thus no justification for action
against Iraq based on action in self-defence to combat imminent threats of terrorism..."

Three guesses as to which report the above passage is quoted from.

Now, truth_hurts (you'd know better than anybody) and kev... TRY AGAIN!

Posted by: C00garUK at October 24, 2004 01:13 PM (LbKHy)

782 Lauraemerick,
thanks again for the uplifting words.....
I feel so sorry for Margaret Hassan, what do you think about the situation, do you think she has a chance?
she didn't help the coalition, she has been doing the same job of helping the Iraqi women and children for 30 years and became an Iraqi citizen, just shows us no one is safe from these monsters.

Hey coog,
I think I was out for a while after fainting when I heard you would come to America, so you really aren't anti-american.........don't think the FBI would bother you unless they got a lot of complaints from this blog message board..ha ha...
Hang in there coog,...:}
it's about time for a new blog board, I just hope we don't have to come together again over Margaret's murder, if her life is based on the new troops, do you know when this is supposed to take place, the new troops being deployed from Britain? God be with that poor woman, this is so awful.

Posted by: madarmywife at October 24, 2004 10:54 PM (H2cCi)

783 For the attention of COOqarUK: A signed copy of the The Future of Politics, by the Liberal Democrats' leader Charles Kennedy, is for sale on the eBay auction site, where Bidding closes today and if you wish to top the single bid with a well-timed last-minute offer, the book is yours. For a cool 2p.

Posted by: kev at October 25, 2004 11:22 AM (qvUPU)

784 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:13 PM (ptOpl)

785 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:13 PM (ptOpl)

786 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:14 PM (ptOpl)

787 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:14 PM (ptOpl)

788 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:14 PM (ptOpl)

789 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:14 PM (ptOpl)

790 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:14 PM (ptOpl)

791 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:14 PM (ptOpl)

792 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:15 PM (ptOpl)

793 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:15 PM (ptOpl)

794 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:15 PM (ptOpl)

795 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:15 PM (ptOpl)

796 Top Stories - AP


Tons of Explosives Missing in Iraq

1 hour, 7 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Several hundred tons of conventional explosives are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that once played a key role in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s efforts to build a nuclear bomb, the U.N. nuclear agency confirmed Monday.


AP Photo

IAEA Says Tons of Iraq Explosives Missing
(AP Video)




Latest headlines:
· Pentagon says its unclear if explosives disappeared after Iraq site fell under US control
AFP - 3 minutes ago
· Union Calls for Better Security Overseas
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush says Kerry would "cut and run" from Iraq
AFP - 42 minutes ago
Special Coverage





International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei will report the materials' disappearance to the U.N. Security Council later Monday, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told The Associated Press.


"On Oct. 10, the IAEA received a declaration from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology informing us that approximately 350 (metric) tons of high explosive material had gone missing," Fleming said.


"The most immediate concern here is that these explosives could have fallen into the wrong hands."


In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq (news - web sites)."


"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart said in a statement.


The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials had been stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.


"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.


Nearly 380 tons of powerful explosives that could be used to build large conventional bombs are missing from the former Al Qaqaa military installation, The New York Times reported Monday. The 380 tons is the U.S. equivalent of the figure of 350 metric tons mentioned by the Iraqis, the IAEA said.


The newspaper said they disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq last year.


The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings, down jetliners, produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weapons. HMX and RDX are key ingredients in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex — substances so powerful that Libyan terrorists needed just 1 pound to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, killing 170 people.


Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said. It said Iraq's interim government recently warned the United States and U.N. nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.


"Upon receiving the declaration on Oct. 10, we first took measures to authenticate it," Fleming said. "Then on Oct. 15, we informed the multinational forces through the U.S. government with the request for it to take any appropriate action in cooperation with Iraq's interim government.


"Mr. ElBaradei wanted to give them some time to recover the explosives before reporting this loss to the Security Council, but since it's now out, ElBaradei plans to inform the Security Council today" in a letter to the council president, she said.


Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Experts say HMX can be used to create a highly powerful explosion with enough intensity to ignite the fissile material in an atomic bomb and set off a nuclear chain reaction.


IAEA inspectors pulled out of Iraq just before the 2003 invasion and have not yet been able to return despite ElBaradei's repeated urging that the experts be allowed back in to finish their work.


ElBaradei told the U.N. Security Council before the war that Iraq's nuclear program was in disarray and that there was no evidence to suggest it had revived efforts to build atomic weaponry.





Al Qaqaa, a sprawling former military installation about 30 miles south of Baghdad, was placed under U.S. military control but repeatedly has been looted, raising troubling questions about whether the missing explosives have fallen into the hands of insurgents battling coalition forces.

Al-Qaqaa is located near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew which drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow storage buildings that appeared deserted.

Saddam was known to have used the site to make conventional warheads, and IAEA inspectors dismantled parts of his nuclear program there before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites). The experts also oversaw the destruction of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons.

The nuclear agency pulled out of Iraq in 1998, and by the time it returned in 2002, it confirmed that 35 tons of HMX that had been placed under IAEA seal were missing. HMX and RDX are the key components in plastic explosives, which insurgents have widely used in a series of bloody car bombings in Iraq.

"These explosives can be used to blow up airplanes, level buildings, attack our troops and detonate nuclear weapons," Lockhart said.

"The Bush administration knew where this stockpile was, but took no action to secure the site. They were urgently and specifically informed that terrorists could be helping themselves to the most dangerous explosives bonanza in history, but nothing was done to prevent it from happening," he said.

"This material was monitored and controlled by U.N. inspectors before the invasion of Iraq. Thanks to the stunning incompetence of the Bush administration, we now have no idea where it is," Lockhart said. He demanded the White House explain "why they failed to safeguard these explosives and keep them out of the hands of our enemies."

ElBaradei told the United Nations (news - web sites) in February 2003 that Iraq had declared that "HMX previously under IAEA seal had been transferred for use in the production of industrial explosives, primarily to cement plants as a booster for explosives used in quarrying."

"However, given the nature of the use of high explosives, it may well be that the IAEA will be unable to reach a final conclusion on the end use of this material," ElBaradei warned at the time.

"A large quantity of these explosives were under IAEA seal because they do have a nuclear application," Fleming said Monday.

The nuclear agency has no concrete evidence to suggest the seals were broken, Fleming said, but a diplomat familiar with the agency's work in Iraq said the seals must have been broken if the explosives were stolen.

___


DOES ANYONE DOUBT NOW THAT SADDAM DID INDEED HAVE WEAPONS CAPABLE OF MASS DESTRUCTION NOW?

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:15 PM (ptOpl)

797 Sorry for posting that twice; was having prob's trying to post it once, so I kept hitting the button.

I have drawn some conclusions over these latest findings:

1. Saddam had WMD's and planned to use them had we hadn't gone there and stopped him.

2. If Bush administration did indeed know of the site where the weapons were before the invasion, God help them...also, this would mean that the administration DID know WMDs existed but got there too late...DUH...Saddam's no idiot, he knew they were coming, so he hid them.

3. Again, if Bush knew about it all along prior to the invasion, why the fuck did he keep changing his mind about the reasons for going into Iraq??? DUH, because when they got there, ooops....no weapons...shit...Saddam hid them...now what? Better come up with another excuse....

On that last point, it would stand to reason that the administration DID lie after all, but it proves my point all along that there Iraq/Saddam always was a threat to the US. It just means that I cannot accept Bush's fumbled reasons he came up with.

Coog, I agree with you there...our leaders indeed lied, but the WMD's DID exist.

Let the debate continue...

Posted by: Laura at October 25, 2004 02:26 PM (ptOpl)

798 Laura, correction...these were NOT WMD although I do agree with you that the INTENT to HARM was there and that Saddam certainly was planning to use them against us, and anyone else who got in his way.

Regardless of what they were, try telling that to the victims of the car bombings. Saddam would've used them for sure, maybe not in a big way (then again, he could've used them to make WMD, who knows?) and that's what everyone seems to be forgetting.

Bush was right to send us to Iraq, as Saddam was certainly a threat...my question is, why didn't he tell us he knew about the site, instead of sending us to Iraq and admitting nothing was found? Why wasn't the site secured long before the invasion?

So many questions, so few answers...

Posted by: Rep at October 25, 2004 04:31 PM (ptOpl)

799 thanks for the info Laura, it is good to see you back,,,,,,,,scary thing and so unbelievable, but so is everything right now.....
God Help and Bless us all

Posted by: madarmywife at October 25, 2004 10:16 PM (1q6y5)

800 There are atrocities in any war. You all talk of God and religeon yet he or she will act through people. People like us, as long as we stand up and condemn the evil men and women in this world surely we will eventually live in a better place. To give up and resort to the barbaric retribution that I read in most of the above tells me that the scum that you refer to are alive and well and part of every religeon and every country. Grow up and prove to the real evil people how to live and how to overcome adversity.

Posted by: Neill at October 26, 2004 07:03 AM (rEzg+)

801 In his last monthly press conference before the invasion of Iraq on February 18 2003, Tony Blair said that removing Saddam will "save a lot of lives" as well as removing the chemical and biological weapons." The people who will celebrate the most will be the people of Iraq, he continued.
We are not celebrating. Death is covering us like fine dust. Four-fifths of Iraqi people demand the immediate withdrawal of occupying forces from Iraq. Margaret Hassan is one of them. Will Tony Blair listen this time?

Posted by: Will at October 26, 2004 11:04 AM (VbP54)

802 TRUST IS THE KEY TO COALITION OPERATIONS.

As the Black Watch prepares for a more intimate form of multinational operations alongside the American Army around Baghdad, its preperations are not helped by a constant trickle of indiscreet remarks regarding differences between the US and British approaches to operations in general, and counter-insurgency in particular.
Coalition operations are difficult enough without the corrorive effect of doctrinal sniping. Even though General Eisenhower led one of the most successful coalitions in history, he wrote at length from a historical perspective regarding "the ineptitude of coalitions in waging war". They need all the help that they can get to achieve a degree of co-operation that ensures seamless and successful combined operations.
The topic is addressed in detail within existing US doctrine, which identifies a number of factors that inhibit co-operation. These include restricted access to command and control systems, the time available, any refusal to co-operate with partners, the degree of differences in military organisation, security, language, doctrine, equipment, experience and conflicting personalities.
The dice are already loaded without the negative addition of insensitive remarks from "military sources".
Ultimately, the cohesion of any coalition hinges on a single, intangible characteristic-trust. It is trust-not doctrine or technology or equipment-that binds a successful coalition and enables effective multinational operations.
The doctrinal differences between the US and British armed forces are well known and need to be urgently addressed, but any coalition is ill-served by rash actions or remarks that erode that vital trust.
It was Eisenhower who identified that Napoleon's reputation as a brilliant strategist suffered when it was realised that he prefered to fight against coalitions, in which division and lack of unity was the norm.

Posted by: george at October 26, 2004 11:32 AM (VbP54)

803 George: It seems that the Prime Minister listens only to American presidents. Perhaps he will take note of this.
"The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its intrest."-George Washington, 1796.

Posted by: Will at October 26, 2004 11:42 AM (VbP54)

804 I see a lot of you in Britian are against Blair's decision to fight alongside the US troops.

Do you all feel like "well since my country wasn't attacked, and Saddam is not a threat to us, why should we fight?". Never mind about whether or not Bush is justified, I just want to understand your feelings about your country's involvement.

Posted by: Laura at October 26, 2004 12:34 PM (ptOpl)

805 Laura:
I think it would be justified to keep news of kidnappings in Iraq out of the media because it makes tactical sense. We would have happily let a leader like Churchill do so because our trust in him remained intact. We worry about letting Blair's government do so because, rightly or wrongly, we feel we could not be sure what else they may censor. Michael Howard(opposition leader) says that our lack of trust in Blair may prove a problem if he ever again has to ask us to go into conflict. It may already be a problem in this conflict.

Posted by: andy at October 26, 2004 01:26 PM (wIfxs)

806 Laura: Mr Blair misled the country about the conflict from the start because he never owned up to the fact that Britain went into Iraq to stay close to the US. He has compounded that terrible mistake on many occasions since, not least in the secretive and suspicious way in which this troop move request has been handled. Mr Blair's response to the request for our troops to be redeployed into central Iraq shows he has learned nothing from the debacle of the last two years. MPs of all parties should demand their right to hold this latest plan to account. Let parliament decide on America's request and let parliament decide to say no.

Posted by: Will at October 26, 2004 01:40 PM (wIfxs)

807 Like most observers I do not have access to all the facts, but of one thing I feel certain: should the this deployment take place, the risks faced by the Black Watch will now become considerably greater than might otherwise have been the case.
The very public and quite detailed debate that has raged in the media for the past week has clearly exposed what the "enemy" will perceive as a fault line in the coalition, and it would be surprising if he didn't seek to exploit it. Publicity is not just the oxygen of terrorism but also provides intelligence. In the intrests of our soldiers and the coalition it would surely be better if details about future military operations-such as units, timescales and areas of operation-were kept out of the public domain.

Posted by: peter at October 26, 2004 02:00 PM (wIfxs)

808 Bk. My PC has been attacked. Or should that be invaded? lol

Iraq does not head my list of suspects...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 26, 2004 03:07 PM (wULEf)

809 COOqarUK, You should try an anti-Bush, oh I mean an anti-virus.

Posted by: Will at October 26, 2004 03:16 PM (DUld4)

810 The President of the United States is also the Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces. It is a simple matter for his political desire for the redeployment of troops in Iraq to be effected through the military chain of command and portrayed by the British Government as a purely military request.
Further, the last draftee retired from the US Armed Services only last year. The possibility of conscription being reintroduced would be very unpopular.
The redeployment of 850 British soldiers would be highly significant to the relatively small British force in southern Iraq but insignificant in terms of US strength. The operations in Iraq depend crucially on local knowledge and relationships for both winning hearts and minds and for intelligence. This redeployment is obviously disruptive of and a significant risk to British operations in the south.
If there is a real military need it would not be difficult to present it in simple terms for the layman. Yet the Secretaries of State for Defence and Foreign Affairs have so far both failed to state it.

Posted by: alistar at October 26, 2004 03:34 PM (DUld4)

811 Critics of the war in Iraq have been quick to recognise parellels with the Vietnam War; and the suggestion that the Black Watch be sent north in response to an American request seems to present another.
In late 1964, President Lyndon Johnson invited Harold Wilson to send British combat troops to Vietnam in an attempt to legitimise the deteriorating American position in South-East Asia. In the face of strong British opposition, Johnson suggested that Wilson should just send, at the very least, a detachment of Black Watch pipers. Johnson believed in the publicity value of these recognisably British troops and hoped their presence in Vietnam would suffice to internationalise the American effort and stem the criticism of his Administration.
Wilson refused.

Posted by: james at October 26, 2004 03:47 PM (DUld4)

812 Funny that happened, Coog, as I just heard on the news that just b/c you have anti-virus and anti-spam programs on your computer, doesn't mean it's safe.

A study was made in many US homes and 80% of those that had computers with so called anti this and that programs STILL were running sluggish due to other viruses, spam, pop ups that managed to wheedle their way in.

Firewalls are a good idea. Makes it harder to break through. I don't know what else to suggest.

I thought I was protected too...both my desktop and laptop crashed around the same time about 2 mos. ago. I blamed it on AOL's new software program.

Who knows? Al Qaeda On Line??

Posted by: Laura at October 26, 2004 03:49 PM (ptOpl)

813 MR BLAIR SHOULD SHUT UP.

The psychology of ransom negotiation is simple but brutal. You are far more likely to retrieve intact an object of little worth than golden treasure. And for her kidnappers that is exactly what Mrs Hassan is-an object, a piece of merchandise to be paraded via satellite TV to bid up the price while they wait around for the anguished offers to roll in.
Like Kenneth Bigley, Mrs Hassan has fallen beyond our Western power. Her fate will be determined by her kidnappers whose agenda, monetary gain or political blackmail, remains unclear.
From the moment of his capture Mr Bigley was a dead man walking. Kidnappers who behead their captives on camera and upload their bloody handi-work on to the internet are not going to be swayed by earnest statements in the House of Commons. From start to finish, Mr Bigley's protracted murder by his kidnapper, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, was a sadistic torment. It served al-Zarqawi's twisted aim of spreading terror, and exaggerated his limited power. We should not repeat the mistake. But this prime ministerial gagging order should not prevent secret efforts to free Mrs Hassan. The last best hope of saving her is silence and discreet diplomacy.

Posted by: Adam at October 26, 2004 05:09 PM (t77DL)

814 No war please... please dun nuke MY country IRAQ. i love all of Man kind. god bless us all,.

beheading feels good onli on americans.. they kill our husbands and children. we want peace. you bomb us, we make head sandwiches.

our men are very bravee, they fear only Allah

we love peace. cutting heads is a waste of time.... =)

Posted by: khadijah from iraq at October 26, 2004 06:34 PM (gXwDF)

815 Rusty, please remove the above sorry excuse for a human being's post.

Arguing amongst ourselves is one thing, but when someone starts talking about using us for sandwiches, I draw the line.

Be gone, insect.

SPLAT!!

Posted by: Laura at October 26, 2004 06:58 PM (ptOpl)

816 I have to agree with Laura, the IRaqi woman's post didn't make much sense, (we believe in peace, we love all man kind, but we love head sandwiches for the americans?????????),,,,saddam really brainwashed you poor people, where is your great Allah? Stop chasing false dead Gods..........what about the terrorist and insurgents??? they don't bomb your people? Don't they worship Allah but yet have killed their own kind????

this woman and the many like her, is exactly the reason we will be babysitting these people for years to come....


I have to agree with Adam on Mr. Bigley, his fate was decided the day he was captured, he knew his fate I am sure. Mrs. Hassan I feel knows hers as well, we all dread the day the British replacement troops are sent in,,,,,,,,that seals her fate....God be with her


Posted by: madarmywife at October 26, 2004 10:03 PM (CQHKh)

817 Well, two videos have been released, the one of the Japanese hostage and another one of Margaret Hussan, who sadly, is being tortured the same way Kenneth Bigley was. Which is better? A quick end or a slow death? Quick is better, IMHO. How about NO death? Pipedreams.

Now they are saying this latest information about the explosives missing, is old news of about 19 mos. ago! Me thinks a plot is at hand, so close to the election and this news just now coming out? To sway the votes, no doubt, in Kerry's favor.

I heard a synapsis of why we shouldn't put Kerry in office.

Say your home has been invaded several times...Kerry shows up at your doorstep and tells you to give him the keys to your house, that he will protect you, but he doesn't tell you HOW he's going to protect you, just hand over the keys!!!

Would you hand over your keys to a complete stranger, who will not tell you HOW he's going to protect you from being invaded??

Just a thought.

Posted by: Laura at October 27, 2004 05:21 PM (ptOpl)

818 HEY YOU!... YES...YOU!!!... I'M TALKING TO YOU!!!

All you people who live and die in the name of 'your' gods..... Is everyone fukkin stupid or what??? For Gods sake! (joke WAKE UP!

Do you think that when you get to 'heaven' (ha! that's a laugh) that it will be full of all these gods you follow here on earth? ...that someone will be up there waiting, and asking "Hello, religeon please?.... Muslim?..... fine, first door on the left.... Catholic....fine....down the corridoor.."

Now, if that sounds silly, look around you...THINK! (For yourself!)

YOU THE PEOPLE... STOP KILLING IN THE NAME OF GODS, STOP BLAIMING GODS FOR YOUR DEEDS, AND WORDS! (you must realise by now, god will never bless america, uk, iraq or any other fukkin place or people!!!)

Gods (collectivly) are no more than a fairytale designed to keep little boys in good order... your problems are that you havn't grown up yet... that's all.

You can be so carefree with your gods and words, but most of what you speak and do is full of venom!!!

If that's what your gods preach, shove it up ur hole!

I am my god, my body is my temple, I am resposible for my own actions, thoughts and words.

No 'king-in-the-sky' has ever spoke to me... in actual fact, if their was a god, and he lived on earth, i would be first in the queue to break everyone of his fukkin windows!

GODS? ....HUH.....Keep 'EM!

Posted by: Derry-liverpool-uk at October 28, 2004 02:09 AM (5DWht)

819 This comment goes to that Iraqi woman (khadijah from iraq). Ya'll want peace then why the hell make orders and if their not brought to yall's demand ya'll chop off innocent peoples heads? Thats what I don't understand. what the hell do these innocent people do to piss you Iraqi's off so bad to want to take the lives of innocent people. You know that you take away childrens Dad's and grandfathers, and sons. Well we want just as much peace as ya'll do but you making your comments about how ya'll like to make our heads out of sandwiches isn't making peace.

Posted by: pissedoffamerican at October 28, 2004 02:49 AM (r7uty)

820 Bastards. Savage bastards.

Posted by: Sloth at October 28, 2004 06:25 AM (UvckI)

821 Surely the time has come for the media to cease supporting the terrorists' objectives in Iraq and to declare a voluntary moratorium on reporting upon the agony of hostages and their captors' demands.
We are engaged in a war with terrorism, and a degree of censorship is as much in the public intrest as it was in 1940.
As a nation(Britain) we must also stop holding silences at football matches and other public occasions in response to these tragic events.
They only serve to encourage more of the same and, however much we feel for the victims of these outrageous atrocities, such demonstrations harm our cause.
We must, as we have in the past, exercise some restraint and show ourselves to be made of sterner stuff.

Posted by: alistar at October 28, 2004 08:53 AM (1NuXY)

822 Alistar, how much more restraint can we show, when we don't bow down to their demands, yet the beheadings continue? I understand your point, but we are already showing them that we are not giving in to them, but not meetin their demands, so outside of not showing the videos and getting rid of forums such as these, to show our outrage, this really isn't much left to do, that we are not already doing.

I picture Zarqawi cruising through the war blogs and laughing his head off, getting a sadistic thrill when he reads all the outraged posts. This is what they live for! Why don't they use that energy into helping their own people, instead of wasting time kidnapping, threatening and then beheading their victims?

Posted by: Laura at October 28, 2004 09:11 AM (ptOpl)

823 Another sad day....
Pointless violence
I pray for Kenneth and his loved ones

May God bless them

Posted by: David Lambert at October 28, 2004 12:30 PM (64pqY)

824 I think the South Korean Government was ill-advised in debating whether to cancel its planned troop deployment in Iraq(24 June).
Had it replied firmly that if the Korean hostage was harmed, it would send twice as many soldiers, because the kidnapping demonstrated that more troops were needed, then the kidnappers could only obtain the opposite of what they wanted unless they released the hostage.

Posted by: karl at October 28, 2004 02:08 PM (IXpai)

825 October 21 , 2004

MEMORANDUM TO: OPINION LEADERS

FROM: GARY SCHMITT

SUBJECT: Kerry on Zarqawi - Wrong

This week both John Kerry and his senior foreign policy advisor, Susan Rice, have argued that the Bush administration was wrong about Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi. He was not a danger before the war; his contacts with Saddam's Iraq non-existent; and his relationship to al Qaeda only now cemented.

Their comments appear to be based on a single Washington Post (October 5, 2004) story concerning a leaked CIA re-assessment of Saddam's ties to Zarqawi. According to that news account, "A U.S. official familiar with the new CIA assessment said intelligence analysts are unable to determine conclusively the nature of the relationship," and that the assessment was "still being worked." Nevertheless, the same official stated: "What is indisputable is that Zarqawi was operating out of Baghdad and was involved in a lot of bad activities."

Frankly, the idea that Zarqawi would, first, opt to go to Baghdad and, second, operate there for some time without Iraqi intelligence's complicity, is pretty fanciful. And the fact that the CIA does not have "conclusive" evidence of that complicity is hardly a surprise given the number of spies it had within Saddam's inner circle: none.

Moreover, Zarqawi's activities were hardly benign prior to the Iraq war. As the State Department's 2003 report on "Patterns of Global Terrorism" points out:

The presence of several hundred al-Qaida operatives fighting with the small Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam in the northeastern corner of Iraqi Kurdistan--where the IIS operates--is well documented. Iraq has an agent in the most senior levels of Ansar al-Islam as well. In addition, small numbers of highly placed al-Qaida militants were present in Baghdad and areas of Iraq that Saddam controls. It is inconceivable these groups were in Iraq without the knowledge and acquiescence of Saddam's regime. In the past year, al-Qaida operatives in northern Iraq concocted suspect chemicals under the direction of senior al-Qaida associate Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi and tried to smuggle them into Russia, Western Europe, and the United States for terrorist operations.

Third, the idea that Zarqawi was not "in any way cooperating with al-Qaeda" is certainly wishful thinking. Although Zarqawi and bin Laden may have had different agendas at times, there is plenty of evidence that they had a mutually supportive relationship.

As Stephen Hayes points out in a piece on yesterday's Weekly Standard website ("The Rice Stuff? Susan Rice talks about Abu Musab al Zarqawi"), the Washington Post (September 27, 2004) reported:

According to Jordanian officials and court testimony by jailed followers in Germany, Zarqawi met in Kandahar and Kabul with bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders. He asked them for assistance and money to set up his own training camp in Herat, near the Iranian border. With al Qaeda's support, the camp opened and soon served as a magnet for Jordanian militants.
And, as Hayes further notes:
But Zarqawi did more than train fighters. According to a Jordanian indictment, Zarqawi planned a series of attacks in Jordan to mark the millennium. His chief co-conspirator in that plot was Abu Zubaydah, frequently described as Osama bin Laden's "operations chief." The Senate Intelligence Committee report says that Zubaydah was the "senior al Qaeda coordinator responsible for training and recruiting." Zubaydah, who is in U.S. custody, is often cited by skeptics of the Iraq-al Qaeda connection because he told interrogators that he thought it "unlikely" that bin Laden would establish a formal alliance with Iraq for fear of losing his independence. But the skeptics often ignore other aspects of Zubaydah's debriefing. Again, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee report, Zubaydah "indicated that he had heard that an important al Qaeda associate, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, and others had good relationships with Iraqi Intelligence."

Of course, it is hardly surprising that Sen. Kerry and his campaign team would use a leak to the Washington Post to score a political point. That's politics today. But their willingness to so readily dismiss the potential threat posed by Zarqawi before the Iraq war, based on one still-in-the-works intelligence report, is more disturbing. Frankly, it smacks of Clinton-era complacency. Absent a notarized statement by Saddam and bin Laden attesting to their ties with Zarqawi, would a President Kerry have given him a pass? And if so, is that the policy judgment Americans want in a post 9-11 world?


I took the liberty of quoting an article from a link from LMAO. Thanks. These people always want proof, yet when we give it to them, they call it hogwash.

Posted by: Ltb3105 at October 28, 2004 03:14 PM (ptOpl)

826 '100,000 Killed' in Iraq

About 100,000 civilians have died as a result of the coalition invasion of Iraq in March last year, a study by public health experts has revealed.

The majority of victims were said to be women and children killed through military activity.

A team made up of American and Iraqi researchers carried out the study last month by surveying clusters of households.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 28, 2004 04:05 PM (jVBzI)

827 madarmywife

(with apologies for the long delay in replying)

Of course I would consider America. I thought you at least would have had more sense than to link my staunch opposition to the US-led illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq to being Anti-American.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 28, 2004 04:09 PM (jVBzI)

828 Funny how when someone loses the argument, they become coy and evasive.

I've shown my proof of what I've believed all along and have quoted sources. Don't know what else I can do.

LMAO, thanks for that terrific website you posted on the other thread.

Indeed, Zarqawi was linked with Al Qaeda and Iraq even before 9/11...what an eye opener.

Sadly, Bush used the wrong reasons to enter Iraq...to find WMD's....they were already gone! To free the people of Iraq from terrorism? I don't believe we should go anywhere to free anyone, unless we are threatened (which we were, by Zarqawi and the Al Qaeda) but NOT the reasons given by Bush for invading Iraq.

Right time, wrong reason.

Posted by: Laura at October 28, 2004 05:14 PM (ptOpl)

829 More commie propaganda. Yahoo News reported that a "survey" was conducted!

And if true, how many MORE do you think would've been killed had Saddam remained in power? The press doesn't tell you that, does it?

Posted by: Laura at October 28, 2004 06:04 PM (ptOpl)

830 This is a war on terror, not the muslim world, hating muslims would be playing into the hands of the terrorists... remember the muslim council of GB sent a delegation to iraq to help save Ken Bigley. im a typical "white" english guy and i have nothing what so ever against the muslim religion. dont we all have a right to believe in whatever god we want to believe in? or not believe in? the muslim comunities around the world are important to help fight this madness. dont play into the hands of the terrorists or things can only get worse!

Posted by: Steve at October 28, 2004 07:10 PM (v10tx)

831 yesterday i receive phonecal saying that my auntie died in war. she was sick and no help given.

i wil pray that ALLAH save us all.. i donot hate you AmerICans even though my many family , frends and meghbours some die in the war.

pls leave us alone.. we will rememberr your good deeds. Allah remembers your good deedds.

thank u andy for giving me website to write views. god bless u.

now i in new york. waiting for car . later i message you again.

to all muslims: love your broders and sisters. be aware of Americans who hate us.. Those who dont hate us, will be given many thingsS in heaven. Things that even money cannot buy. i love you all. we shall meet in paradise, InsyaAllah

Posted by: khadijah (from iraQ) at October 28, 2004 07:35 PM (gXwDF)

832 Khadijah,
why are you in New York? may I ask, why are you not with you own people and why are you living in the land of the infidel????? I think that is against your religion.....I don't hate muslims, but I wish they would get a backbone in Iraq and help our coalition a little more....STOP US FROM THE BABYSITTING!!!!!!

Speaking of religion, there is no such thing, only the one and only God father of Jesus, I would be careful of the blasphemy Derry from UK, you are much braver than I, how can you actually believe we just popped up out of the ground, come on???????? look around you, there is no way there is not a God. He is not the reason for all the hate and vilolence, that is satan's wonderful work!!!

Hey Coog, What part of America is your favorite?

Hey Laura,
I totally agree, I think anyone with any sense at all new there was a connection....people are so nieve on here.............

Ltb3105....Ditto, thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!


Vote For Bush Tuesday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 28, 2004 11:56 PM (RXWdZ)

833 I am sick and tired of hearing everybody blaming this person and that person. Personally, I blame humanity as a whole, I blame the devil as well! Matthew 7:1-6 says we should take the plank out of our own eyes before looking at the speck in others.

How can we bring each other down? We are all humans for goodness sake, we all come from the same Adam and the same Eve who ate of the same fruit! The fact of the matter is, is that we can not judge anybody or blame anybody without knowing the real facts in it!!!!!

For now we can only blame those terrorists who took of Ken's head. The truth is they are cowards. All we can do is pray they will have a true revelation of the love of Christ! There is only Father and His Name is Yahweh, Jehovah... Abba! The more we go on about their stupid beliefs and satanic rituals (which this whole beheading thing is because how can you be cleansed by beheading someone else...)the more we are going to stoop to the level of those murderers. The more we go on about who's to blame, the more we are actually condemning ourselves.

Romans 5:17 "For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ."

God has called us all to love one another as He has loved us and still does more than we can ever imagine.

Posted by: Dwaine at October 29, 2004 05:41 AM (vVsL3)

834 So only your god is the real god armywife? do you realise how stupid you sound saying things like that based on actual fact!?
Just look up this list and see how many times a different 'god' is mentioned.... as i said, 'wake up' girl.... don't be so nieve!
It's not realy your fault, you have been brought up as a sheep, as have all the others on here, & you can not be expected to know any better, or to show your own initiative.... "yours is not to question why, your's is but to do or die".
Don't you realise that if only for a twist of circumstance, you could so easly of been born in another part of the world, perhaps calling allah your god, or in a different time and you would of been worshiping a sun god.... get it yet?

Since the begining of time people have been killed in the name of one god or another, and yet you have still learned NOTHNG! and as time goes on you invent new gods to fit how you will be manipulated.

The result is the killings go on and on....

The rich and powerfull want you to believe in god (or allah) so they can manipulate you more easly... to give you a cloak to hide behind for when your 'race' commit attrocities... you can say "we did it in the name of god (or allah).... god is right... god is good"

Do you realy believe that crap, going on the evidence?

(incidently, a vote for bush or whoever just goes to show what sheep you are... don't vote! ....it only encourages the bastards!)

Posted by: Derry-Liverpool-UK at October 29, 2004 06:23 AM (5DWht)

835 I is a muslim, and proud to be one and i will die as one. To all those who have posted comments on the Ken Bingley affair, i would like to say that i was disgusted too with what has happend. Islam the religion of Muslims is against this behaviour. At the time of the Prophet the was a war between the Muslims and the none Muslim, the muslims where told NOT TO Kill women or children, one of the condition of war in Islam. There was an incident where a warrior of Islam was about to kill his enemy in the name of Islam, when his enemy spat on him. The warrior withdrew his sord and let him lived and carried on. This behavior was observed and after the war he was asked why he let him live and not kill him?? he responce was as follows "I was about to kill him in the name of Islam, but when he spat on me, it became personal". You see my freinds All the wars and the currnt activities that are going on are far from Islam as someone mentioned that islam is a peacfull religion. My sympathy goes out to the Americans and the British families who have lost there loved in this war.

Posted by: jake at October 29, 2004 07:08 AM (IQlAb)

836 I is a muslim, and proud to be one and i will die as one. To all those who have posted comments on the Ken Bingley affair, i would like to say that i was disgusted too with what has happend. Islam the religion of Muslims is against this behaviour. At the time of the Prophet the was a war between the Muslims and the none Muslim, the muslims where told NOT TO Kill women or children, one of the condition of war in Islam. There was an incident where a warrior of Islam was about to kill his enemy in the name of Islam, when his enemy spat on him. The warrior withdrew his sord and let him lived and carried on. This behavior was observed and after the war he was asked why he let him live and not kill him?? he responce was as follows "I was about to kill him in the name of Islam, but when he spat on me, it became personal". You see my freinds All the wars and the currnt activities that are going on are far from Islam as someone mentioned that islam is a peacfull religion. My sympathy goes out to the Americans and the British families who have lost there loved in this war.

Posted by: jake at October 29, 2004 07:09 AM (IQlAb)

837 I is a muslim, and proud to be one and i will die as one. To all those who have posted comments on the Ken Bingley affair, i would like to say that i was disgusted too with what has happend. Islam the religion of Muslims is against this behaviour. At the time of the Prophet the was a war between the Muslims and the none Muslim, the muslims where told NOT TO Kill women or children, one of the condition of war in Islam. There was an incident where a warrior of Islam was about to kill his enemy in the name of Islam, when his enemy spat on him. The warrior withdrew his sord and let him lived and carried on. This behavior was observed and after the war he was asked why he let him live and not kill him?? he responce was as follows "I was about to kill him in the name of Islam, but when he spat on me, it became personal". You see my freinds All the wars and the currnt activities that are going on are far from Islam as someone mentioned that islam is a peacfull religion. My sympathy goes out to the Americans and the British families who have lost there loved in this war.

Posted by: jake at October 29, 2004 07:09 AM (IQlAb)

838 This may sound like Orwellian paranoia but it is not far from thinking of many Republican political analysts.
Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the neoconservatives have been consciously searching for a new enemy to unite America and restore its military alertness, social discipline and moral fibre. No wonder they seemed so well prepared psychologically when this enemy finally appeared on September 11.
The President is not in the least embarrassed by a preference for warfare: his favourite campaign slogan is "the best defence is offence". If the American electorate now votes for Mr Bush, war could be restored to the political primacy it has enjoyed throughout most of human history-as the last refuge of politicians determined to keep power.

Posted by: Adam at October 29, 2004 07:22 AM (Jg93Q)

839 EUROPEAN CONSTITUTION.

The lesson of the recent past is that when Europe is divided its views can be ignored and its values can be undermined.
The left, more than anyone else, should support a constitution for a strong Europe that can offer a multilateral partnership in place of Bush's unilateralism, and our social model as an alternative to his version of feral capitalism.
Europeans have no vote in next week's presidential elections. But we can at least vote on today's constitution, and if the US result goes wrong, it will be all the more important that we affirm our right to different European values.

Posted by: Adam at October 29, 2004 09:17 AM (bCPMn)

840 Derry from Uk
I have often pondered on the fact we are all born into circumstance and I myself could have easily been brought up by someone like yourself, therefore believeing in nothing but my own insecurity and resentment doubting my own reason for being and what I don't understand,,,,can't prove it, don't believe it? I feel sorry for you, I may sound stupid to you but I will pray for you my friend.
I don't worship Allah, by the way. My God was not invented, believe he held that job......I have not been brainwashed , I have tried to live your life of anquish and misery, but I could not do it, I believe that Jesus will return someday to save anyone who believes in him as the bible says, My God is the father of Adam the first Man, Guess that makes us cousins somehow??? life is a test my friend................you need to study a little more!!!!!Hope to see you in Heaven.

God Bless you Derry
God Bless President Bush and his next 4 years

Posted by: madarmywife at October 29, 2004 11:35 PM (p2Ci/)

841 Dont feel sorry or pray for me...... your words & thoughts should be put to better use instead of waisted on such nonsence!
That's the majority of your (yes, YOUR) problems and many more who have posted here. I dont blame anything on any gods, just people who hate, people like you who think you are so different and right because your gods & leaders tell you so, and you happen to be stupid enough to believe it.. I don't need any god or leader to verify what I am doing as wrong or right, I have a brain that does that.
I have many beliefs, the strongest being in myself & what I am capable of.
My children are well adjusted and mix with many races an have no problems what so ever with them... the main reason is,they don't see them as THIS race, or THAT race, just people.
You would do well to take a leaf out of my book for your own childrens sake..
Take your husband for one... had he not been told to, would he have chose to go and fight in iraq (or anywhere else)if his leaders had not told him to do so(and made him) Answer honestly.....
You & him show all the classic signs of being used and abused and I can only suggest you and your husband seek councilling.

Neary everyone in here quote facts & statements from the past, either about governments or wars to justify their feelings and actions now.

It's all a load of crap! fuck what happened yesterday! what you do now and in the future is the only thing that matters. When you first wake every morning, look in the mirror (this applies to everyone) and ask yourself "what can I do today to make this a place worth bringing children up in..." and if you can't think of anything sensible, go back to fukkin bed and stay there!

I do hope you find peace in your heart one day armywife, Jeez, you need it!

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 05:42 AM (5DWht)

842 Derry,

Thank God your children are well adjusted. You, on the other hand, my dear chap, are another story.

No one is *forced* to go to war...NO DRAFT...read my lips...it is each person's CHOICE to fight.

Stay in the UK and keep your anti-American and anti-God views in your own country, where they belong.

Posted by: Luara at October 30, 2004 09:24 AM (ptOpl)

843 Further to my last post, it's just an idea, but I think it would be a great one if you could get it to work...

If we could have a global 'god-free-month' once a year, were everyone in the world forgot about their gods for a month, and concentrated on humanity and care for this home we call our planet instead.

.......It COULD just work

now, tell me that's a bad idea...

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 09:28 AM (5DWht)

844 Poor, poor Luara

You ARE good evidence of how thick and misguided your people are..... you don't even take the time to educate yourself about the subjects you speak of...... RULE NUMBER ONE!

Where do I mention anything derogatory about Americans?

I talk about people in general from all races and creeds...

But why tell you this... your kind are noted for jumping in feet-first and asking questions later...


One day you WILL understand.

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 09:36 AM (5DWht)

845 Anyone who's against anyone fighting for their country is anti-American...you're either with us or against us. No in between.

Why does madarmywife and her husband need counseling? Because her husband's a soldier fighting in Iraq for what he believes in? No one twisted his arm...there is no draft!

Whether or not one agrees with the Iraq invasion is not the point now...we are there to wipe out the terrorists and not doing such a good job because we should have obliterated the countries that hold these terrorists to oblivion a long time ago...would have saved a lot of time, energy and money.

If we don't do it, they will do it to us. It's been proven. Saddam wants us destroyed, Osama wants us destroyed and Zarqawi wants us destroyed. Peace talks are NOT gonna solve this one. These are not human beings. They are not even animals. I wouldn't offend animals by putting them on the same level as these terroristic bastards.

If we "give peace a chance" we are giving DEATH a chance. No other way out.

Posted by: Laura at October 30, 2004 09:52 AM (ptOpl)

846 In that case my reply is 'Anyone at all who picks up a gun, a sword, a knife or a brick to use on another human being deserves no more than have the same thing done to them.

How dare you think its right to invade another country and use brutality on innocent people!
go fuck yourself!

"with us or against us" WHAT KIND OF BOLLOCKS IS THAT! If you want to throw in sayings, how about this one.... "he who lives by the sword..." so expect your man back in a bag!

And come the next UK elections...... your on your own girl coz we will be out of Iraq like a shot! with a new government in power and the anti-war feelings here you can expect many more of your 'kind' to be smartly dressed in a body bag... if he's lucky, they just might pin a medal on his sorry ass just to ease your pain!

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 10:13 AM (5DWht)

847 "No one is *forced* to go to war...NO DRAFT...read my lips...it is each person's CHOICE to fight."

I'm afraid you're wrong there, Laura. Not forced to join the armed forces no, but once in there you DO have to fight... it's called following orders, and doing what you are paid for. Refuse to fight and see where that gets you... a swift court-martial methinks!

As for not being human beings, does that go for the 100,000 innocent women and children that the coalition forces have illegally slaughtered so far?

You're not very human yourself, and in no way do I consider that because you're American.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 30, 2004 10:18 AM (7g//K)

848 madarmywife

Since I was last here you appear to have completely lost your marbles.

The wedding is off!

p.s. There is not one 'true religion', however religion IS the cause of the majority of all wars, even the present US-led illegal one in Iraq

Posted by: C00garUK at October 30, 2004 10:21 AM (7g//K)

849 And as for my REAL thoughts about Ken Bigley and his fellow hostages..... just greedy bastards taking a job off iraqi people.... he was all smiles in his picture taken in front of the invading tanks & soldiers.... let's see him smile now...

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 10:26 AM (5DWht)

850 If you think that is harsh, let me inform you I was brought up in Ireland where these things happened as a matter of routine...

You think 9/11 & co was bad? try living with it for EVERYDAY of your life right on your doorstep!
Every time you go to bed you don't know if your going to be petrol-bombed, arrested or shot dead... it wasn't even safe in the schools for the children!
Whenever you went for a job you where told 'Sorry, vacancy gone', but you know the REAL reason is the answer you gave on the application form, where it asks 'Religeon' so then you are forced to beg just for existance!

Then, and only then would you look at things a little differently than you do at present.

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 10:48 AM (5DWht)

851 Derry - Liverpool - UK

I hear what you're saying, and have some sympathy for you. However, you seem just as screwed up by religion as some of the Americans on here.

I guess you have more reason to be though...

Posted by: C00garUK at October 30, 2004 11:01 AM (7g//K)

852 I'm not 'scewed up with religion'.... you could, i suppose, call it 'enlightenment' I'v just seen first hand it's cause and effect and don't like what I see. It's no more than a cancer eating away at its subjects.
No matter what part of the world it is, the problems are always the same ones, so why people can't put their heads together and work it out I don't know (Well i do actualy, it's coz it suits oppressors)

Religion holds no facination for me whatsoever.

Let me ask you a simple question...If you believe in one god or another (I don't know if you do or not), and you met an alien who asked you which one out of the many is the right one, what would you reply?
but more importantly, how would you explain all the others are wrong?

I will leave you with this final thought... 'If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem'
You can not expect the iraqi people to do anything else but to fight back, even a cornered rat will attack.

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 11:27 AM (5DWht)

853 Please note, i feel like i'm hogging this mypetjava so I won't be replying again, plus I have said all that needs be said with all details enclosed, so let me finish by saying thank you to the owner of this site for allowing me, and other people of many races to freely comunicate on a true one-on-one basis... only on sites like this does the real truth come out. (so be it, mixed with many un-truths)

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 11:37 AM (5DWht)

854 Please note, i feel like i'v been hogging this mypetjava, and I don't intend to become involved in back and forth banter, so I won't be replying again, plus I have said all that needs be said with all details enclosed, so let me finish by saying thank you to the owner of this site for allowing me, and other people of many races to freely comunicate on a true one-on-one basis... only on sites like this does the real truth come out. (so be it, mixed with many un-truths)

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 30, 2004 11:40 AM (5DWht)

855 We have all lost our sons in the war in Iraq. They joined the army to defend their country. When they were sent to war in Iraq they believed this country(UK) was in danger of imminent attack. They were told we were 45 minutes away from such an attack. We now know the war was based on lies and deceit. Tony Blair knew the evidence for WMD was non-existent but persuaded parliament that the opposite was the case. These lies led directly to the deaths of our sons. That is what we cannot forgive or forget.
On November 13 we will lay a wreath for our sons at the door of No 10. We will be there to ask our Prime Minister why he acted as he did. We ask other families to join us.

A question for Laura: do you have any children that have died in the illegal war in Iraq?

Posted by: jane at October 30, 2004 12:34 PM (bCPMn)

856 American intervention may have been right in Afghanistan and wrong in Iraq. To see the world in patches, dappled with rights and wrongs and maybes quite unlinked by forces of good or evil, may be a mark not of failed intelligence but of the courage to venture out from beneath the wings of grand explanations of the world, and face each problem as individual.
I say of the British anti-American Left, as I say of both Mr Bush and bin Laden, that they should beware of failing to see the trees for the wood.

Posted by: andy at October 30, 2004 01:04 PM (bsR7q)

857 Nope, but I and some of my friends lost friends, relatives and co-workers in the 9/11 attacks. I do know some young men, who are sons of friends of min who are serving, some in the Army and some in the Marines.

But, no, haven't lost anyone to the war in Iraq....YET.

What is your point? That our soldiers are dying unnecessarily because of Bush's "illegal invasion"? No DRAFT honey, the men VOLUNTEERED to hunt for the terrorists.

Posted by: Laura at October 30, 2004 01:46 PM (ptOpl)

858 Nope, but I and some of my friends lost friends, relatives and co-workers in the 9/11 attacks. I do know some young men, who are sons of friends of mine who are serving, some in the Army and some in the Marines.

But, no, haven't lost anyone to the war in Iraq....YET.

What is your point? That our soldiers are dying unnecessarily because of Bush's "illegal invasion"? No DRAFT honey, the men VOLUNTEERED to hunt for the terrorists.

Posted by: Laura at October 30, 2004 01:46 PM (ptOpl)

859 i am here to teach arabic to uni studeNTS. at same time to teach them about islam.

Posted by: khadijah (iraq) at October 30, 2004 04:46 PM (gXwDF)

860 Keep smokin' that wacky iraqi tobackey!!

Posted by: Laura at October 30, 2004 05:18 PM (ptOpl)

861 "no one is forced, but you DO have to fight once you're there"

WTF? I said NO ONE IS FORCED...THERE IS NO DRAFT. Of course, IF you do VOLUNTEER, and sign up and go there (which you've never done or know anyone who's done that) THEN you will have to fight!!! NO shit, Sherlock, what's yer next case?

Anyone who goes, knows that and goes there to defend his country.

100,000 civilians...don't forget many many many of them were killed by the insurgents...car bombings, suicide bombings, etc. I don't care where you read or heard it, 100,000 is a LOT of people...household survey..heheheh...yeah right.

Ironically, a lot of those so called "missing weaons" could be the very ones that have been used on their own people.

How many died during the world wars? Viet Nam? Korea? You expect everyone to remain safe when there's a war?

Oh yeah, I know already, it wasn't their fault! We had no reason to go there...says who? Rummy? UN? And you believe them? Keep saying it, NO WMD, NO WMD. Had Bush not gone there and captured Saddam, wait...actually, we probably SAVED a lot MORE lives from being lost from just getting Saddam!!!! Remember, he was killing his own people before we even got there, so don't hand me that shit of 100,000 innnocents lost.

I'm just sorry I won't be able to see you guys with your tails bet. your legs after next Tuesday, not that you give a shit, it's not YOUR election.

And it's only YOUR WAR too, because YOUR leader got involved in it...WHICH IS THE ONLY REASON YOU'RE WHINING NOW, ISN'T IT?

Have a nice evening, or day....

Posted by: Laura at October 30, 2004 08:04 PM (ptOpl)

862 Laura, I can tell you exactly what Europe wants. They want to handle the growing threat of Islamic extremism the same way they handled the growing threat of good ol' Hitler. At first, Europe wants to sit back on their butts and do nothing and hope it does not affect them, tighten their security some. If that does not work, then Europe wants to reason with or negotiate with the terrorists just like they did with the ol' Fuhrer with a peace treaty ie. appeasement. Then of course, when that doesn't work, they'll expect the good ol' USA to step in and do the dirty work like sending troops and spending money while Europe sits back and criticizes and yacks about how it should be done. In a nutshell, Europe does little and America does a lot and Europe bitches and whines. Sums it up cause that's the fact jack lol.

Posted by: whatever at October 31, 2004 02:34 AM (QsWop)

863 PS--Derry, you call K.Bigley a greedy bastard??? Well, couldn't you say the same about yourself. I mean their are plenty of poor downtrodden people that could sure use your job and money hmmm but you don't give it to them so you're greedy, right??? I mean do you really need the TV or computer you're typing your stupid s##t on, when it could go feed the poor?? I guess according to what you say, then YOU should get you head chopped off for being a greedy bastard??????

Posted by: whatever at October 31, 2004 02:44 AM (QsWop)

864 I CANT SAY ANYTHING.I WANT FROM EUROPE GOVERNMENT TO JOIN TO USA TO WAR AGAINTS THESE WILD ANIMALS.
THANKS.
BYE.
(DOWN WITH TERRORIST)

Posted by: payman at October 31, 2004 06:46 AM (gkVgQ)

865 Your user-name "Whatever" shows your attitude to such matters, it realy suites you. You dont realy need to post ANY views.... we know them allready!

Just for your information (not that you will understand a word of this) I am now retired due to ill-health, but i still have a full work load taken up by the charity work and fund-raising I am commited to, for no less that 4 different charities. On average, I put in as many as 60hrs a week devoted to good causes, My computer is an essential tool in my efforts to raise cash for these causes, last year alone myself and my team were responsible for raising over £375.685.66.

You just don't fukkin listen!!!

I hate repeating myself but for your benefit I will do something now I hate doing, because I feel if you have to tell anyone anything twice, it just shows they are, 1. not interested, or 2. too fukkin dumb to understand.

I feel you fall into the latter....

Anyway, I live by this saying.. "When you first wake everymorning, look into the mirror and ask yourself "What can I do today to make this a place worth bringing children up in..." and if you can't think of anything sensible, go back to fukkin bed and stay there!"

What have YOU done this week to make this a better world to occupy?

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 31, 2004 06:49 AM (5DWht)

866 Hey Derry Ding Dong, go fuck myself? Sorry, got a husband who does that, thank you very much!

Makes you a tough guy to insult a woman, eh? What have YOU or your COUNTRY done? All you can do is blast Blair for joining forces with America! You and your kind wouldn't give a "bloody" shit had your country not gone there as well. Sit back and do nothing, like you did during Hitler's regime, and he had millions slaughtered. At least we got Saddam, who was hellbent on doing the same thing.

100,000 so far...better than 6 mill.

Go complain to your govt. if you're against the war and leave the Americans alone.

And no, my man won't come home in a body bag. He ain't young enough to go there.

Posted by: Laura at October 31, 2004 09:16 AM (ptOpl)

867 The above note is not worthy of comment.

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at October 31, 2004 10:50 AM (5DWht)

868 You just did.

Posted by: Laura at October 31, 2004 12:53 PM (ptOpl)

869 Hey Laura, You Americans have got it all wrong. You people are debating whose candidate is tougher on and off the battlefield. Since when has toughness been a prerequisite for a leader who can give his people stability and peace? The world needs a US president who does not pick fights all over the place just because he can. Those are the actions of a thug, not a statesman.

Posted by: karl at October 31, 2004 01:07 PM (qykZL)

870 It is de rigueur for European commentators to sneer at President Bush's "obsession" with the war on terror, as if in fighting it he is somehow beyond the pale. Yet such a view ignores one of the main reasons why Senator Kerry was picked by his party to run against the president-that as a decorated veteran he was immune from the charge that he would be soft on terror. Yet the perception abroad is of a battle between a gunslinging "shoot first, ask questions later" Texan and a smooth "consult and pacify" East Coast intellectual. No such battle exists. President Kerry would perhaps speak less starkly and would make foreign allies feel more loved. But actions really do speak louder than words, and President Kerry would act in the American national intrest just as has President Bush.
Both candidates have, of course, their strengths and weaknesses. President Bush's charge that Senator Kerry has "flip-flopped" has stung because it is accurate. He might speak the right words but, by definition, he is untested in the highest office. President Bush has indeed been tested, and led his country with remarkable purpose in the immediate wake of 9/11, but he has been guilty of needlessly antagonising natural allies. And whatever the rights and wrongs of invading Iraq, there can be no doubt that he failed to plan properly for the peace, with the terrible results we see now daily. The abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib was shameful. On that occasion the buck didn't stop anywhere.
All of this is to ignore domestic issues. They too matter to the rest of us. Senator Kerry's lasting flirtation with protectionist economic policies sits ill with his claim to be the better internationalist. President Bush, too, once dropped his free-trading principles for political expediency. An "open doors" America with its economy on the right track is essential for the prosperity of the rest of the world.
But America is now a nation at war. In fighting that war, the US is defending not just itself but the security of the rest of the free world-whether we like it or, as seems to be the fashionable view in Europe, not. That is why we should be relieved that, whatever the result on Tuesday, the fundamentals of American policy are in place.

Posted by: Adam at October 31, 2004 02:31 PM (g0i7u)

871 Laura: For your information Britain was the only country in the Second World War to actually declare war on Germany. But you wouldn't understand that, which is understandable considering you a 'dumb-ass' Yank!

Posted by: james at October 31, 2004 02:46 PM (g0i7u)

872 What is it, with all of you from the UK? We don't care what your political views are regarding the US because this is OUR country and I beg you to leave the anti-American insults out of here.

I have never met such rude, obnoxious, one sided, pig headed bunch of pansies on here in my whole life.

Thank God my admiration for you people go as far as The Beatles. I have no use for the rest of your kind, since joining this blog.

I ask all of you in the UK now: would you even care about the people of Iraq, would you even give a shit about anything in Iraq, had your leader not become involved in the situation?

Would you even BE on this blog, pissing and moaning about the poor Iraqi people, etc.?

Didn't think so.

Posted by: Laura at October 31, 2004 03:11 PM (ptOpl)

873 Poor Laura, what is it like to have the intellectual capacity of, well, an atom? It is obvious you are not able to compete with someone such as Adam. Take a read of that post and educate yourself. It may take you a long time though.

Posted by: james at October 31, 2004 03:30 PM (GimFl)

874 James, go ahead with the barbs and taunts, you are only deepening my convictions about you UK bloggers on here: you stoop to insults and calling people stupid when a difference of opinion is made. And when you are directly asked a question, you evade it. You provoke, instead of invoke.

Hey, if my south Bronx upbringing left me intact and a better person for having lived dirt poor, who saw devastation, murder, drug dealings and the like, why would any attempts on your part and the parts of your fellow bloggers who seem to enjoy the "mob mentality" on here, affect me?

Bring it on! You are but a piss in the wind for me.

Bush is winning, in case anyone wants to know.

:-)

Posted by: Laura at October 31, 2004 03:48 PM (ptOpl)

875 So Laura, just to quote you, "rude, obnoxious, pig-headed". Would you not consider these words as "insults" either?

Regarding "that Bush is winning" statement. Bin Laden would love Bush to get 4 more years. Don't you get it? Without Bush, Bin Laden has 4 more years to blame that 'dim-wit' for all the devestation going on in the world today. As opposed to Kerry uniting allies together again, resulting in Bin Laden having most of the world against him.

God, you are hard work Laura. Your views are very subjective. Take the blinkers off girl.

My view is Kerry for the Oval Office.

Posted by: james at October 31, 2004 04:17 PM (GimFl)

876 Come on America, VOTE KERRY for the White House!

Posted by: jak at October 31, 2004 04:29 PM (AdvAZ)

877 Ps Laura, you suggested that "you have never MET such" blah blah blah. I don't believe we have ever met. Have we? Do you see why you can't compete with people such as Adam. Your comments are more like rantings. Please get a grip, if not for yourself, then do it for your fellow Americans.

Posted by: james at October 31, 2004 04:38 PM (AdvAZ)

878 Wow, Derry Derry quite contrary arent' we ,,,, did I ruffle some feathers??? Hope you didn't have an anxiety attack with all the postings, I could tell by the mis-spellings you were typing as fast as your heart could beat..you need the counceling my friend!!!

..Let me clarity myself///////////////as I stated in a previous post,

I DO NOT WORSHIP OR BELIEVE IN RELIGION, THERE IS NO RELIGION IN HEAVEN....I BELIEVE IN GOD THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS, I DON'T JUDGE ANYONE ON WHO THEY WORSHIP OR WHAT THEY WORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS THEMSELVES, we are not so stupid we don't realize there are hundreds of religions and ways people worship all over the world............so called born into circumstance, right Derry?......

you stated if someone uses a knife, gun,sword etc on others then they should have they same done to them, well my friend wake up and smell the flowers, that is why we are in Iraq, terrorism was there long before we got there, those poor people were born into your so called circumstance, gassed, tortured and thrown into mass graves, etc etc....we like America has always done is there to help them as well as ourselves and our children's future,
if the terrorist were fixing to bomb your children's school, or worse, would you want Britain and America to help you, or if you neighbors were being gassed and tortured would you sit back and watch and dread the day they came to your door???? If you went through so much as you say, you should now how it feels to live in a prison,

Being around Military, there are thousands of pictures and stories of happy Iraqis glad we are there, but they never show that stuff on television, you are the ones who are brainwashed believeing only what you hear, God Bless Tony Blair, who knows the truth and stands up for you........................

fact? The brits are fighting along side the americans against the fight against terrorism,,,,,,,,,,,,,correction, just the ones in uniform and the one called blair??????????????????????????????????????hey by the way, just curious, what does your so called queen actually do? What are her views?, I mean besides spending all your money and living it up, what does she do for Britain???????????????Don't ever talk about America being arrogant..............................................Mr bigley died while the queen and all you arrogants were having a tea party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

atleast Princess Alice got to live a bit longer than Mr. Bigley didn't she, I feel so sorry..................................

Coogar,
come on you know you still love mexoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Laura,
You go girl,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks for the comments.....................................whoever asked if you had someone killed in the war, that didn't even make sense,,,,,,,,,,,we are america and we are upset when any of our boys or girls get killed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just shows you how cold and clueless some are on here,

VOTE BUSH on TUESDAY

Posted by: madarmywife at October 31, 2004 05:06 PM (Jtj3H)

879 Laura is by far one of the thickest and most narrow-minded people I have ever come across.

Not even worth continuing to debate with.

And just what exactly is Bush supposedly winning? There's alot more at stake here than the US Presidency. But it will take an intelligent American to comprehend that.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 31, 2004 05:19 PM (HyGpv)

880 thought you weren't posting anymore Derry??? Giving Laura a ruff time, I do believe it was America that hurried WWII along, it must have been your ancestors whinning and complaining like you do about how hard they had it...........needed America??????????then didn't you........... and before you say it,,,,,,,I KNOW JAPAN BOMBED US FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bush for President,,,,,,,,Lets trade Kerry for Blair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 31, 2004 05:20 PM (Jtj3H)

881 coog, consider me narrow minded too,,,,,,,,save yourself a comment on posting to me,,,,,,he he......so where are we gonna live anyway??

Posted by: madarmywife at October 31, 2004 05:25 PM (Jtj3H)

882 No madarmywife, I have gone off you again.

Maybe it's because you've completely lost your trolley again.

And as for America's involvement in WWII, it wouldn't even have happened had it not been for Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 31, 2004 05:30 PM (HyGpv)

883 And as for the forthcoming US election, I really don't care who wins... so long as it's not some idiotic jerk hell-bent on waging illegal wars on other countries just because it suits his own ideals.

Posted by: C00garUK at October 31, 2004 05:33 PM (HyGpv)

884 Cute James? so Bin Laden is hiding behind a bush..........how Ironic........but funny,

and by the way who died and made you God of all logic and intellect??? You probably haven't gotten past high school.........I myself am very educated as far as book sense.........lucky for me I have common sense to go with it,,,,,,,,you need both my friend to attract a descent blogger..........you aren't one of those copy and paste trying to sound intelligent, or giving this blog the impression it is an application to get into Harvard, instead of any and all from all walks of life stating their mind freely without being cut down or insulted...........I think your from America??????he he Have you met Derry, let me introduce you?????????

You let it all out Laura.....probably a bunch of wife beaters who can't stand a woman giving them a go for their money, atleast you speak from your heart..........not playing I am the smart one, no other better than I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at October 31, 2004 05:39 PM (Jtj3H)

885 let me ask Derry a question upon rereading his lovely post,,,,,,,you said the people if backed up in a corner like a rat would fight back, well so you are agreeing that Iraq is a terroristic country? Most of the fighting back are terroristic minded insurgents as well as those terrorist just coming in for a little fun, such as Al Z>>>>>he's not worth having his name mentioned...........if thats not good enough,...well the people are controlled by fear, let us not help them,,,,,,,my husband gets up each morning and makes the world a better place......how can you give a darn about the death of those people when you talk to dirty of Mr. Bigley's death which this blog is about, you need to be banned from here just for that, you are an evil person who cares so little about one's life,,,,,,,,and your own children wanting them to think this is all there is......please Mr. find a heart inside there somehwhere.....

As far as explaining God to aliens,,,,,,,how can you believe in aliens and not God????? he he...so what time is your counceling appointment???

I take back what I said, you never made it past 6th grade.

Posted by: madarmywife at October 31, 2004 05:52 PM (Jtj3H)

886 I really don't care either Coogar who wins the election so long as it isn't Kerry, I don't care for his rich spoilt wife who was quick to condemn Mrs. Bush for not ever holding a real job,, she is just a retired school teacher, kinda hit a soft spot,,,,,,,,,,,,

The only thing I care about is we are there now and we have to fix it the best way we can, we can't just leave it like it is, what kind of answer is that?

To any brits,
No one has ever explained the queen thing to me? I guess no one knows, tradition , religion, I suppose, guess I will do some research myself....

God Bless the World
ps. contrary to what all I have said, I think the brits have the sexiest voices of any nation.....
there you go, and of course being Scot/Irish myself, I would love to see Scotland firsthand,,,,,did that make anyone feel better,
sorry I can't help my bloody self sometimes,

Posted by: madarmywife at October 31, 2004 06:01 PM (Jtj3H)

887 ironic also all this ww2 talk, yes japan bombed us, what do you know we bombed them and went to Europe to help,,,,,,,,,,,,on the other hand, we were bombed by Bin Laden in Afganistan, we bombed them and now we are in Iraq to help...........

but the United States should be minding their own business..........what is that??? I don't like war and the innocent lives lost,,,,but that is life, has always been and will always be,,,,some of you watch too many movies, the only true peaceful exsistence will be in Heaven for those who belived in Jesus, alien or Human???? Read the Bible, lots of conflicts and hurt????????????????????

Posted by: madarmywife at October 31, 2004 06:25 PM (Jtj3H)

888 hehehehe,,,,I knew it...now that it looks pretty certain Bush will win, all the people against him have turned it around the other way...

"don't you get it, Osama wants Bush to win" and all that other load of complete BS.

James, you and Cooq are by far, the worst of your bunch I've ever "met" as in cyberspace met...get a grip James, your kind has an annoying habit of twisting everything around when you've been defeated.

Cooq what the hell are you on about Pearl Harbor??? Damn right we got into it after that, just like we got into it NOW....ooops gotta go...trick or treaters.....back to real life.

GO BUSH GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Laura at October 31, 2004 06:46 PM (ptOpl)

889 To Derry for Mr. Bigley

I can't believe you said those things about Mr. Bigley, Derry
on a sight displaying pictures of his torture and death. I think you are just jealous that he had a real job, helping people, we all choose our own occupation, so he made money, good for him, he was brave to be there.

.if you had it so darn awful, why didn't you move your flawless all about me family to another place to live........a place maybe such as sweden, pretty peaceful there I think, but then you would have to be willing to have the guts to do something to make things better, isn't that what you said ? people should make things better for their children, I think fighting terrorism is a darn good start.

God Bless Mr. Bigley's family and may they not have to listen to anyone such as this cut him down

Vote for the brave vote Bush so he can clean up what he messed up

Posted by: proudtobeme at October 31, 2004 10:58 PM (IHVWn)

890 coogar and you others who speak of america going to war2 on the basis of Japan only.

If you were there first, why didn't you fix it?
What would have happened without america there?
Why did you need our help?

America is made up of all kinds including lots of bloody brits. we are your brothers and sisters.

Do you think getting everyone out of iraq will fix it? How so? If your whole country is against Tony Blair, why isn't he overthrown?
I myself would like to know the queens point of view?

Derry, what happened to you in Ireland that you speak of. Someone has hardened your heart about religion. Do you have to worship to get a job? Like I heard someone state, why are you rasing a family in such an awful place there?

I don't care who you vote for america, just vote!

Posted by: curious about britian at October 31, 2004 11:13 PM (IHVWn)

891 Britian hurts its own people that is what it is.
Talk about religous wars among its own. Pot calling the kettle black?

Posted by: england'sown at October 31, 2004 11:21 PM (IHVWn)

892 my goodness all the bad mouthing on here. I just saw the video and it is so awful. I have been reading the comments and at first was afraid to post for fear of ridicule from so many, my little brother is in Iraq and he like so many others are just doing what they are told. So many of us Americans don't want all the violence and war. But like someone said it is too late now. we have to help fix it and get the terrible people who did this to mr. bigley and the others.

I must say I admire you armywife for standing up for Jesus, he is the only peace maker in this world. I am always afraid to speak of my belief for fear of redicule as I have seen you've gotten.
Your family is in my prayers.

Posted by: susanfromOhio at October 31, 2004 11:37 PM (IHVWn)

893 The coalition causes not the killing or murder of innocents, it is the insurgents and terrorist. They care not who they kill, they live to kill, they live to die, They are killing all over the world,
question: may I ask how one would go about getting the terrorist another way? wait until they murder our own, your own, the real innocent,
the real innocent which are so bravely out spoken it would seem by reading these moments of inspiration.
by the way I am from Britain and I support Tony Blair all you Americans who have put Britian into the mind of one or two kittens trying to chase mice.

Posted by: england'sown at October 31, 2004 11:49 PM (IHVWn)

894 madarmywife I see the wedding is off. I would be happy to show you Scotland, a personal love of mine as well, if you ever care to visit. I find your post a bit overwhelming but with much more intellect than the others are giving you credit for.

Alex

Posted by: england'sown at October 31, 2004 11:57 PM (IHVWn)

895 "Vote for the brave vote Bush so he can clean up what he messed up"

If you believe Bush messed up, there's a much better way of putting it right...

Posted by: C00garUK at November 01, 2004 12:48 AM (aIG5a)

896 Ha ha ha, Derry is too damn funny. First, he says Ken Bigley was a greedy bastard who basically got what's coming to him----just because he was working at a job.*gasp* Then he ends it with "what have you done to make the world a better place"?? Irony here. Well, Derry ol' chap, I don't go around saying people deserve to die because they worked at a job?? You retired due to a disability, yeah mental incapacitation I'll guess, or as we say here in America, you're "special" ha ha ha

Posted by: whatever at November 01, 2004 03:24 AM (s/9Fr)

897 And Cooq, what Is the better way? I've been debating with your ass back and forth on here for weeks and I'm not afraid to state what I think we should do over there.

You, however, continue to post that the war is an "illegal invasion", blah, blah, blah, and insult and ridicule anyone who has a differing point of view than yours.

What about it? If you were in Bush's or Blair's place, what would YOU do to end the terrorism?

Posted by: Laura at November 01, 2004 09:21 AM (ptOpl)

898 OMG...I just heard that more hostages have been taken! And this is in Afghanistan! More in Iraq too, one American and three others. These terrorists are ALL over the place!!!! If this is revenge for our occupation in Iraq, what's the excuse for the kidnappings in Afghanistan now, all of a sudden, when we've been there since after 9/11?

Wake up, people, we should send 1,000 more troops for each beheading carried out. Let the insurgents know that we will just flood the whole damned area until they are overtaken. At the rate they're going, shouldn't be that long to do.

Posted by: Laura at November 01, 2004 12:24 PM (ptOpl)

899 Laura

Are you really as thick as many of your posts on here would seem to suggest?

My last comment was aimed at the person who appeared to openly admit that Bush has messed up, yet at the same time still advocates voting for him!

Better way? Do I really have to spell it out any further...?

p.s. The US-led invasion and occupation of Iraq WAS and IS illegal.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 01, 2004 02:19 PM (nTfzC)

900 "Wake up, people, we should send 1,000 more troops..."

Don't be silly! Bush will never do that! Not while he has an election to fight! You really are a stupid woman, aren't you?!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 01, 2004 02:21 PM (nTfzC)

901 1000 troops, eh?

Hmmm, nice round number that. Not far short of the number sent home in body bags after being sacrificed for this ILLEGAL US-led conflict.

Think about it, you Americans, before casting your vote tomorrow.

Just how many more of your citizens are you prepared to send off to a needless death, just to satisfy one man's ego?

Posted by: C00garUK at November 01, 2004 02:29 PM (nTfzC)

902 And before Laura or any of her cronies (and that includes my ex-fiancee) makes another vague attempt to make out that I contradict myself, I am NOT interested in American politics, however have come to the conclusion that a vote for KERRY is the better option for WORLD PEACE.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 01, 2004 02:33 PM (nTfzC)

903 See? What'd I tell ya? Evasive, rude and obnoxious. Stupid because MY views differ from YOURS.

Still haven't said what you'd do for world peace, besides staying at home on your computer with the rest of your country, while the insurgents (who probably have the WMD's that are missing!) use it against their people and soldiers.

Remember, most of the people that are dying over there is not as a result of the coalition but as a result of suicide bombings, car bombings, work of the insurgents.

Does your news media tell you THAT? So, your plea to Blair would be to pull the troops out of Iraq and do what? What about the hostages? Let them die as well? Oh, but those are "innocent" people we're talking about! Yet you would turn your back on them...wait....wait...before you say it, "oh, but if we didn't go there in the first place, this wouldn't be happening".

Yeah right..tell that to the soldiers over there who've been told by the Iraqi people that shit's been going on there for years, before we even got there!

I would rather believe the soldiers that are there, live with the people that are over there, and hear what they are saying. THAT is the REAL TRUTH....not whatever you're going by!

And that, my dear chap, is my final answer. Not on the blog, just my final response to YOU, as I have no intention to continue a debate with someone who keeps calling me stupid.

Posted by: Laura at November 01, 2004 03:16 PM (ptOpl)

904 Stupid because you're stupid.

And that's a kind way of putting it!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 01, 2004 05:32 PM (J2ne1)

905 Seeing as how Europe has a 1000 or more years of war and bloodshed on its' hands, including 2 world wars that killed many Americans and ethnic cleansing and war in Bosnia recently, isn't it a very hypocritical for them to lecture America on achieving "world peace." Why should we listen to Europe when they have been utter failures at achieving "world peace."

Posted by: brian at November 01, 2004 06:01 PM (mR349)

906 well there is a mess that needs to be cleaned up, illegal or not, we all make choices that backfire and cause a ripple of infection, so do we give up and run or fight and survive, swim to the top, paddle to shore, fix it the best you can,
Mr. Bush does not give up, he will finish the clean up, the trash terrorist , they are the ones that need to be home in a body bag,
you people are sick

Posted by: proudtobeme at November 01, 2004 06:41 PM (QRs3x)

907 I see you people (and I use the word loosely) are still at it! Shame on you men (and I use that term loosely as well) for picking on women such as madarmywife and Laura! I think they are a little closer to the situation than any of you in the UK are...have a heart, if that's possible.

Stupid is as stupid does...blatantly calling someone stupid, whether or not you're right (and you're not) makes you less respectable and less than credible no matter what you say.

And seeing how known of you were over "there", and don't know what the fuck you're talking about, except what you read or hear, or what your leaders tell you, look who's calling the kettle black now? Now who's stupid???

YOu all sit there with your perceptions and biased opinions. Who the hell do you people think you are by showing disrespect for us soldiers fighting over there?

Over 70% of soldiers support Bush and are voting for him. What does that tell you? That we are justified in being over there, and if we are man enough to be over there, then who are you to decide what's "illegal" and what's not?

Fuck you lib's you terrorist supporing assholes! Have you never made a mistake about anything? No one's perfect....you crucify a man for his decisions, yet if he did nothing, you would call him a pussy, with no backbone....fuck the insurgents bastids who are bombing the shit out of Iraq, they are killing MANY more than us soldiers are, we bring the injured to the hospitals carry them out of harm's way and you dare say we've killed over 100,000.

Get the fuck off the blog and go complain to your Blair about your "illegal invasion"...I'm disgusted with your sorry excuse for mankind.

USA FOREVER......BUSH...ANOTHER FOUR YEARS!!!!

Posted by: fightingsoldier at November 01, 2004 06:50 PM (ptOpl)

908 I just found this blog and think it's stupid the way everyone is fighting and insulting each other, while the whole purpose is to talk about Bigley's beheading. Seems to have gone way beyond that now with a definite USA vs. UK thing going on.

Right, wrong, indifferent, we are there now, we have got to stop this terrorism, nip it in the bud, never got anything accomplished by sitting on our butts, did we?

WMD's or no WMD's, Saddam is evil and I'm glad Bush got him, but everyone forgets that or thinks he was not a threat..,.say what? I have two cousins over there and he was told by the Iraqi people that Saddam was out to get even his own people, to make everyone be "one" with his religion, who does that sound like? Hitler?

Sorry to say, but we waited too long to stop him and look what happened? Over 6 mill. killed! 100,000 people in Iraq killed? Maybe, maybe not, who really knows for sure? And how many of them were killed by the radical insurgents, their own people? How many more do you think Saddam would have killed had he still been there?

Think about it. We must see this through...we are there now, does not good to keep fighting over who's right, who's wrong, what's illegal, what's not....their are there NOW to do the job of getting the terrorists that are killing everyone, even the Iraqi's.

Please people, THINK about it.

Good night.

Posted by: why me? at November 01, 2004 07:10 PM (ptOpl)

909 I see the non-fighting soldier has returned.

30% of soldiers are against Bush? WOW!

Get the fuck off the blog yourself, if you dislikeit so much.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 12:19 AM (SlTFd)

910 Bush wouldn't recognise world peace if it came up and bit him on the ass.

Else he wouldn't have made matters far worse by starting this illegal war!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 12:22 AM (SlTFd)

911 As I said, Europe isn't in any position to lecture America on world peace. As others have said,if you have a problem with Iraq, take it up with your own government. Anyway, if neither your country or the US were involved with Iraq, say it was Mexico at war with Iraq, you wouldn't give a rat's ass about Iraq, sorry but that's the truth.

Posted by: brian at November 02, 2004 05:26 AM (LS/3P)

912 Ahhh, so THAT'S the truth, Brian! Someone else besides myself finally seeing through these fucking moaners and whiners.

Fighting soldier, God bless you, and I hope you do go back to Iraq to fight again. Most of us are proud of you, don't let the Uk'rs get ya down. Big talk on this blog, all they can do is bitch and moan.

As I said before, if their country wasn't involved they could give two shits about this so called "illegal invasion" of theirs....and why do they even care? They're at home, nice and comfy in their homes, just wanting to bitch about something.

Why is it that the ones who have the most invested in this war, are the ones that are mostly for it, i.e., family members of loved ones over there fighting, the soldiers themselves? If it were so damned wrong, we would be bitching and moaning too.

No one is forced to go over there and fight. But, we defend our country, which is a lot more than I can say for others.

Posted by: Laura at November 02, 2004 09:04 AM (ptOpl)

913 As a liberal Democrat who has watched our Prime Minister cosy up to the most malevolent and incompetent president in US history, I and most of my fellow Democrats-have little use for Mr Blair. He has been perfectly willing to sell us out for his own narrow political intrests and I hope that if Senator Kerry is elected, he will invite Gorden Brown not Tony Blair to the White House.

Posted by: Ken at November 02, 2004 11:41 AM (GimFl)

914 Just saw 9/11 Fahrenheit for the first time and I was quite amazed how many US soldiers think Bush is an idiot. For the first time I felt really sorry for them and it was quite an eyeopener especially as most of them look like theyve just come out of highschool. They want to go home and they hate the war as much as we do. Arabs do not hate Americans, they hate Bush and his government and most of all or equally that fat pig Sharon. Those beheading barbarians dont give a shit about Allah, they hide behind Islam because the western world sees most Arabs as potential terrorists anyway so they make all decent Arabs - oh yes they do exist - become labelled for their actions. I hope they will be caught and be captured and made to wait for their death as all the hostages have done. I dont know if Kerry will do a better job than Bush....but that said how could he possilby do worse?

Posted by: Freddie at November 02, 2004 11:47 AM (edKnQ)

915 For the attention of COOqarUK/Ken and the like: Do people such as yourselves, who have sincere concerns about Iraq genuinely want the US to withdraw immediately? Should the Iraqi people be left to stew in a cauldron spiced with absurdist nationalism, extremist Islam and go-for-broke gangsterism?
Unless there is more effort to comprehend the US, and presidential campaigns bring coverage but not necessarily enlightenment, the frustration outside will grow exponentially. And to presume that America is "polarised", as much coverage suggests, and that one of those poles is firmly planted in the values of neo-socalist liberal rationalism, or however else the dominant ideology of Europe is defined, is to believe that the most telling difference between Athens, Greece, and Athens, Georgia, is topographical.

Posted by: andy at November 02, 2004 11:58 AM (GimFl)

916 Fahrenheit is FahrenhYPE. I can't believe the people who believe Moore's shit! It is a work of "art", a documentary that is FICTION! He cuts out shit and adds other shit to make it LOOK as though it's all true. I saw plenty of politicians that were shown in that movie and they said that Moore cut out the rest of what they were saying or screwed it up to make it look as though they meant something else.

Poor unadulterated BS. Moore should go on a diet, he's the original "FAT BASTARD".

That motherfucker should be sent to Iraq, on a silver platter, before the insurgents. Hmmmm, may have to get a bigger knife, if one exists!

Posted by: Laura at November 02, 2004 01:38 PM (ptOpl)

917 Civilian deaths have always been a tragic reality of modern war. But the conflict in Iraq was supposed to be different-US and British forces were dispatched to liberate the Iraqi people, not impose their own tyranny of violence.

Posted by: Will at November 02, 2004 02:00 PM (7ldeg)

918 No matter what the reasons were for our leaders going into Iraq, we all know the one, real true reason...to get the terroristic bastards that are the insurgents, the ones killing the civilians, not the soldiers. The suicide bombers, the car bombers, THOSE are the ones that are putting a dent in the 100,000 reportedly killed so far.

I don't believe we went there for anything other than removing Saddam from power (which we did, but how soon people forget) and ridding Iraq of terrorists. No "freedom", no oil, no WMD's (they were long gone b4 we got there).

Anyone who remains behind in Iraq has no life because of the remaining threat of terrorism, you have to have a life first before you are killed, and IMO, there is no life in Iraq.

Posted by: Laura at November 02, 2004 02:22 PM (ptOpl)

919 Vote JFK!!!

A Vote For Kerry Is A Vote To Save Innocent Lives!

Vote That Mr Fix-it Madman Bush Out Now While You Still Have A Choice!

Posted by: Derry - Liverpool - UK at November 02, 2004 04:35 PM (5DWht)

920 Don't you people realize that this has nothing to do with the occupation in Iraq? That these people are murdering savages? If it had anything to do with it, they would be freeing all non-combatants and taking in US and Iraqi soldiers and beheading just them.

But, they're not! They are using this as an excuse for their fucking sadistic methods. Bullshit on it's "unIslamic"...got nuttin' to do with that either.

People want someone to blame for all this, so Bush is the scapegoat. Why kill Turkish, Nepalese, Japanese, Russian, Jewish, and all the other innocent victims who aren't even fighting over there? Doesn't make sense...even those that are helping their own country are being slaughtered.

Has nothing to do with the occupation...NOTHING. God helps us all if Kerry wins. My father served in Viet Nam, and all those who served back then know the traitor Kerry is.

Posted by: doremi at November 02, 2004 04:58 PM (ptOpl)

921 "No one is forced to go over there and fight."

Er, yes they are!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 05:46 PM (rpqyF)

922 "...a documentary that is FICTION!"

You really are living in your own little world, aren't you Laura? Stupid fucking bitch!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 05:48 PM (rpqyF)

923 "I don't believe we went there for anything other than removing Saddam from power (which we did, but how soon people forget) and ridding Iraq of terrorists. No "freedom", no oil, no WMD's (they were long gone b4 we got there)."

Er, well we were all told at the time it was to get rid of Saddam's WMDs. Of course, there have been many excuses for the illegal invasion put forward since, Because as you rightly say... THERE ARE NO WMDs, THEY WERE LONG GONE BEFORE YOU GOT THERE!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 05:54 PM (rpqyF)

924 Laura


I would be very surprised if you have actually seen Farenheit 9/11, as of course most of America has actually banned its release, as part of the on-going truth supression campaign...

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 05:57 PM (rpqyF)

925 Father forgive them for they know not what they do

Posted by: Heath Hallam at November 02, 2004 05:59 PM (BSGo0)

926 If so many of the Iraqis are pleased about the illegal occupation of their country, what reason can you give for entire western world's media coverage apparent unwillingness to report this?

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 06:00 PM (rpqyF)

927 "No matter what the reasons were for our leaders going into Iraq, we all know the one, real true reason...to get the terroristic bastards that are the insurgents, the ones killing the civilians, not the soldiers. The suicide bombers, the car bombers,..>"

There was no insurgency prior to the illegal US-led invasion. And car bombing and suicide bombing has escalated since the illegal US-led occupation.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 02, 2004 06:04 PM (rpqyF)

928 Man are you nuts, banned?? Farenheit 911 has been shown all over the US and seeing as how in places like the UK and Canada, one can be charged with "hate speech" and fined or jailed, you're in no position to talk about suppresion. Give me a damn break man. I'm moderate ans as such not a right-winger but I don't buy into Farenheit 911 because it's "the truth" as Moore sees it. *LOFL*

Posted by: brian at November 02, 2004 06:24 PM (mR349)

929 Americans---ever notice how the Euros make some of the most outlandish comments about the USA. There media really pulls a number on them.

Posted by: brian at November 02, 2004 06:29 PM (mR349)

930 Cooq, first time poster, wasn't really going to, but when you insult a lady, that's where I draw the line.

You are nothing but a prick to stoop to name calling, derogatory terms, for any human being that happens to disagree with you.

I don't know what kind of shit your fucking country is shovelling down your throat, but you are one fucking sad little man. Think you're a tough guy hiding behind your computer, typing with one hand and wanking off with the other?

You are not just anti-American, you are anti-human race...you sick piece of shit.

You can't even have a difference of opinion without sinking to the level of a sewer rat! Where does it get you to call people names?

Any credible argument you may have had on this blog is now shot to shit, because of your continuing disrespect for other posters on this blog.

Fuck you and your limey ass views. Fuck your country too. I do agree with you on one thing: I'm mad at Blair for bringing your country into the war, because that meant that pieces of shit like YOU would post on this blog. Because you limeys wouldn't even BE anywhere near here if that wasn't a FACT.

You sad, little munchkin.

Posted by: USA at November 02, 2004 07:12 PM (ptOpl)

931 Cooqar, you just reconfirmed my suspicions about you after all! You assumed that Fahrenheit 911 was banned by the US!

Are you fucking kidding me? People flocked to see what all the hoopla was about!

You are so quick to judge, what media are you listening to? Kinda makes all your arguments now seem lame.

You have probably lost a lot of respect from anyone on here who *may" have agreed with you early on.

Going by what you read and hear is your only "knowledge"...get your FACTS straight before you post such silly shit, since you are so big with facts.

Can you open your mouth wide enough to fit that shoe in?

Love,

Stupid fucking bitch

Posted by: Laura at November 02, 2004 07:31 PM (ptOpl)

932 HAHAHAHA, if everyone is sooo against Bush's Iraq position, why is more than half of America voting for him?

He's even winning in the places that are known to be strictly Democrats!!!

Seems voter turnout confirms America's support for Bush.

So, fuck off, we're gonna WIN.

Posted by: Laura at November 02, 2004 09:50 PM (ptOpl)

933 If Bush wins, world peace loses

Posted by: C00garUK at November 03, 2004 12:19 AM (MQhOD)

934 Now the assinine comments will start pouring in, as James said on an diff. thread,
"I can't believe so many intelligent people were duped into believing Bush", blah, blah, whatever.

If Kerry won, you'd be saying, "America was tired of Bush's lies, so that's why Kerry won".

Can't come up with an arguable excuse...most Americans support Bush, support his policies, and MORAL VALUES, more than anything else.

You libs will be whining and moaning for the next 4 years.

That's okay, we're partying.

Posted by: Laura at November 03, 2004 07:17 AM (ptOpl)

935 The neoconservatives' desire to rid the world of tyrants such as Saddam Hussein is comendable, but it is based on an American world view, which is not shared by the majority of nations.
The first task of the neoconservatives must surely be to cinvince the world that there is credence in their arguments. Then they might condiderably increase the prostects of gaining international support for their desired actions.

Posted by: jak at November 03, 2004 09:06 AM (8ETcY)

936 As the evidence has piled up confirming what I and others have believed-that Iraq was already disarmed by the late 1990s-my personal vote for one of the most culpable individuals would go to Hans Blix, who headed the UN weapons inspection team in the run-up to war. He had the power if not to prevent, at least to forestall a war with Iraq. Blix knew that Iraq was disarmed, but in his mealy-mouthed testimony to the UN security council helped provide fodder for war. His failure to stand up to lies used by Bush and Blair to sell the Iraq war must brand him a moral and intellectual coward.

Posted by: karl at November 03, 2004 09:28 AM (8ETcY)

937 Whoever wins the election, the shadow of Bin Laden will hang heavily over the next US administration. Defeating terrorism will require a far deeper understanding of its root causes, reaching out to Muslims, focused, thoughtful action, better intelligence and the support of other countries alarmed by abuses at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib-and who think that the Iraqi quagmire ia a dangerous distraction from the real business at hand.
Bin Laden's sinister reappearance contains lessons too for America's estranged European allies, who may be running the risk of exaggerated expectations of Mr Kerry's ability to heal transatlantic wounds. Many will have noticed Bin Laden's comment-surely no casual aside-that the idea of attacking tall buildings was inspired by Israeli air raids on Lebanon in 1982-when a previous US administration gave the green light for another disastrous war. All remember the renegade Saudi's cynical offer of a "ceasefire" after the Madrid atrocity in March, when Spanish voters threw out the pro-war prime minister Jose Maria Aznar straight after the cruel mass bombings of the city's commuter trains.
Perhaps there is a danger of reading too much into these manipulative messages: some suggest this one was a coded signal for terrorist action-though the US authorities insisted there was no intelligence about any immediate threat.
Let there be no mistake: Bin Laden and his followers are a danger to us all, not just Americans. Murderous fanaticism does not become any more acceptable just because it is expressed in a twisted parody of an Oval Office address.

Posted by: Adam at November 03, 2004 09:51 AM (8ETcY)

938 Too often in his career, as a senator and presidential candidate, Mr Kerry has said what he thinks voters want to hear, rather than what needs to be done. At the Democratic convention, he presented himself as a patriotic hawk, introducing himself with jaunty military salute. As his campaign began to sink, he started attacking Mr Bush directly over Iraq because opinion polls detected vulnerability on the issue. But Mr Kerry had no plan, beyond a vague commitment to make overtures to spurned allies.
Osama bin Laden's video appearance in the final days of the campaign might look like a piece of powerful defiance, but I earnestly hope it is a measure of his impotence, and evidence of what has been achieved by Mr Bush thus far. It is also a clear warning of how deadly the threat remains, in America, in Britain, and elsewhere. For this reason, it would of been reckless to gamble with Mr Kerry in the Oval Office. Mr Bush has shown sufficient resolve in confronting the global terrorist threat to have earned four more years to see the job through.

Posted by: jane at November 03, 2004 12:40 PM (yOm2K)

939 Moores "shit" is a huge hit over here in little old Europe....but then again we believe anything we are told. Actually most of us watch CNN.....
Lighten up Laura , honey, you dont sound in a party mood to me, understandable somehow. You have your Bush back.....so Go Laura its your bithday.
I look to forward to your insults.

Posted by: the moore the merrier at November 03, 2004 03:30 PM (ikjoU)

940 I say we should pull everyone out of whats left of iraq and leave them to it,its fcuked beyond help and there are beter things our troops can be doing like fishing or going to the movies.

Posted by: Neil at November 03, 2004 04:44 PM (NyFv0)

941 Actually, Bin Laden and Europe helped Bush. Why??? Because Bin Laden threatening Americans if they re-elected Bush would make it more likely that a few would vote for Bush. While Bin Laden's threats will work in Europe because Europeans will appease and run scared of terrorists, Americans won't. Look at Spain, one attack and they vote for whom the terrorists want. Secondly, Europe sticking its' nose in OUR election and OUR business by constantly harping on Bush made it more likely that a few would vote for Bush because when attacked or criticized massively from the outside, it forces some people to turn away. In a close election, this can make a slight difference. So Bin Laden and Europe, you helped Bush, congratulations. From now on Europe, Shut the F*ck Up and Stay the F*ck out of OUR elections and OUR Business and take care of the problems in your own f*cking countries. Realize Europe that America and the rest of the world isn't going to do things your way or think your way. PS--When all those Muslims become the majority in Europe, and they will unless things change, we won't have to listen to you because you'll have lost your freedom of speech under the Muslim dictatorships you'll have.

Posted by: whatever at November 03, 2004 06:21 PM (mR349)

942 Well said, whatever. let them keep spewing their anti-war and illegal invasion chants while Zarqawi and his groups march into merry ole England. Then, let's see what the final solution will be!

As for me, I am still basking in the sea of elation over the election! Bush was so far ahead it didn't even matter if they counted the votes in Ohio for the next 11 days!

Shows you how the majority of Americans really feel about Bush....not from a small percentage of nobodies on here that has absolutely nothing to do with our election OR our country, for that matter.

Continue the pahr-tay.

Night now.

Posted by: Laura at November 03, 2004 06:27 PM (ptOpl)

943 Come on Coog, you know there is or was no such thing as world peace, hasn't been total world peace in all history. The issue is making it safer and giving people a sense of peace of mind again, but I really think that is gone also,
such language, Laura really got to you?? Are you leaving me for her??? he he hehe

as far as Michael Moore's cnn rejection flick, I haven't liked him sinse his bad mouthing about our president when he got that movie award, he made money using people that is all he did, maybe he should try jogging every morning like the president and get his bod and mind in shape....

as far as the young soilders crying about being there, of course they are, I cried the first 8 weeks when I was in the military as just getting out of high school. They are kids, american kids at that, scared and experiencing a culture shock to the extreme, that is only normal to want to go back home to mcdonalds, movies and mom's apple pie,,,,,,,,,,,,,dah...........they are kids
they raised their hand and took the oath, no one made them..

as far as their leaders who have fought in previous campains, they understand and have the wisdom..............where were their comments, or mine or my husbands???

bad news is the only thing people want to see, that is why they don't show the good things. I did see a program two nights ago showing two Iraqi women in their home bagdad smiling holding up their passports, excited about their freedom to vote, those episodes come 1 in 20 compared to the bad news......but they do slip in every now and then.

Too bad Derry.............Kerry LOST!!!!!!!!!!!
Bush got the most in history of popular votes of any president ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bin Laden tried to justify himself with his little feel sorry for me speach, he knows his days are numbered,
I think people still see the threat,
the threat they know Bush has the experience to deal with...of course no one wants to be there!! and there were insurgents and bombings before we went,,,,,,,,,,coog, you said not as many, does one life mean less than 100?? of course not

did you know Kerry hurt himself during the Vietnam war and that is how he got his Purple heart, he was only there 4 months.....

don't feel sorry for him, he has his wifes fortune and he makes a pretty good paycheck for the rest of his life that our tax money is giving him,kinda like we are giving Teresa a little extra spending money.........They will probably spend a couple weeks at all 5 of thier homes to rest.

God Bless America
4 more years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You Go Laura,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Coogar is leaving me for you.... you have a bit more spunk

Posted by: madarmywife at November 03, 2004 07:41 PM (MztXP)

944 fff

Posted by: fsdf at November 04, 2004 01:18 AM (1LaQK)

945 It is the unifying force of national self-belief with all those ridiculed school rituals - pledging allegiance to the flag, reciting the preamble to the Constitution - that makes America whole and at one with itself.
Bush is the personification of that unashamed America and that is why Europe cannot bear the sight of him.

Posted by: Ken at November 04, 2004 05:55 AM (GRyCO)

946 One aspect of the American experience that Britain should import is the principle of debates between the contenders. Although these encounters are often dismissed as stilted-and plainly do not involve the cut-and-thrust of our UKs Prime Minister's Question Time-they allow Americans to compare the candidates over a prolonged session and in conditions of considerable pressure. They obviously do make a difference. John Kerry's campaign seemed to be moving backwards untill his strong performance in the debates revived it. Tony Blair has been challenged to participate in debates at the next general election. It would be in the public intrest for him to accept.
Democracy in America is a expensive affair, yet it is worth the price. After an often bitter contest this year, the nation will come together afterwards. For as de Tocqueville contended more than 160 years ago: "What is understood by republican government in the United States is the slow and quiet action of society upon itself."

Posted by: Adam at November 04, 2004 06:13 AM (GRyCO)

947 Could this be the first time that Osama bin Laden has won an election?

Posted by: Robin at November 04, 2004 10:30 AM (Q4hrz)

948 The Americans seem to have made the same mistake twice. Will we Brits now do it three times?

Posted by: alan at November 04, 2004 10:41 AM (Q4hrz)

949 Let's look on the bright side: the economic and military messes will have to be cleared up by those who caused them; Hillary Clinton has something positive to look forward to; Rory Bremner's Bush is better than his Kerry. I think that's about it.

Posted by: Will at November 04, 2004 11:46 AM (tLh+5)

950 How absurd the Democrats picked someone like John Kerry, an "elitist" New Englander who ia a red rag to the majority redneck states. Even Howard Dean might have made a difference. You can see why Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter won; a person of similar ilk, a southerner of intellect, is required for the Democrats to win.
The Democrats remind me a little of Labour before Blair took over. The party was totally unelectable to "middle England" until the party was led towards the middle-clearly the Democrats need to get more in touch with America's fundamentalist, bible-bashing pre-Darwin heartlands.
Politics is not a wish list, but the art of the possible; with the bible belt the norm in the US, any liberal agenda needs, instead of offering everything, to stick to the core values. Do not hang your whole agenda on abortion and stem-cell research, as correct as those positions are.
The lesson I come away with is how different the US is to Europe - and how right Tony Blair was to march with the US into Iraq: again the art of the possible, rather than a wish list. Better to march with a powerful friend in the hope of ameliorating the worst of the excesses, rather than leaving him to his own blind devices. The US is just too omnipotent to be left alone.

Posted by: alistar at November 04, 2004 12:10 PM (tLh+5)

951 Four more years. Thanks a lot, Tony.

Posted by: jane at November 04, 2004 12:16 PM (tLh+5)

952 Is there a support group for sufferers from Bush victory depression syndrome?

Posted by: Will at November 04, 2004 12:42 PM (tLh+5)

953 To those in the UK who looked at the US elections with a sense of helplessness: you have an influence; exercise it. You twice elected a Labour government that also prosecutes an illegal war and imprisons people without trial. Britain's participation in the Iraq war gave Republicans a mandate. You in the UK need to look to your government and what global influence it has. In a testament to the terrifying power of fear, American electors voted against their economic intrests, their safety, and their civil rights. We and you deserve better. Demand it.

Posted by: Eldrid at November 04, 2004 12:53 PM (tLh+5)

954 Nov. 4, 1979

Today is the 25th anniversary of the day 44 American hostages were kidnapped by Iranian terrorists.

Some of them were recalling that date, and said that was the real day terrorism began in our country, not the '93 bombing of the towers, not the US Embassy, not 9/11 but THEN.

They said if only America and its government took notice of the threat of terrorism when it started, we wouldn't have the situation we have today.

Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. I have said this on this blog and I'll say it again. Don't blame the current administration.

This shit started 25 years ago!

Posted by: Laura at November 04, 2004 03:24 PM (ptOpl)

955 "From now on Europe, Shut the F*ck Up and Stay the F*ck out of OUR elections and OUR Business and take care of the problems in your own f*cking countries. Realize Europe that America and the rest of the world isn't going to do things your way or think your way."

What a totally crass statement!

From now on America, stop poking your nose in where it's definitely not wanted and embarking upon illegal invasions of sovereign territories that are closer geographically to the European continent than your own.

Realise (note the correct ENGLISH spelling) America that the rest of the world isn't going to do things your way or think your way.

Do you really think I'm going to allow myself to be lectured by someone from a country that doesn't even have its own language?

Posted by: C00garUK at November 04, 2004 03:45 PM (f3ti+)

956 I put my US flag away today. America has become a nation of gay-bashing, gun-toting cowards. A nation that proclaims itself Christian while trampling on those most in need of our love and support. A nation that denies civil rights in the name of liberty. A America once loved and now despised by large segments of the world. Yes, I put my flag away and with it my honourable discharge from the US air force. I am now, in Edward Everett Hale's words, "a man without a country".

Posted by: Carl at November 04, 2004 03:59 PM (SEOFQ)

957 Carl, I think the President should not waste time trying to appease or win over those who have no time for him. There is the chance, perhaps, that with the passage of time the qualities which Americans see in this politician will become more obvious to others. Mr Bush must exploit the prominence that he has been given for four more years.

Posted by: alistar at November 04, 2004 04:06 PM (SEOFQ)

958 "I did see a program two nights ago showing two Iraqi women in their home bagdad smiling holding up their passports, excited about their freedom to vote"

Madarmywife, you're gonna have to explain that one to me. Iraqi women have no more right to vote than they did before the illegal US-led invasion! And even if they had, elections aren't due to be held until January 2005 at the earliest.

Maybe you mean that they were entitled to vote in the recent Presidential election? Nah, that can't be it... Bush won!!!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 04, 2004 04:14 PM (4aXkb)

959 Maybe Bush winning did all of us in the UK a favour... It must have certainly improved our chances of getting rid of Blair.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 04, 2004 04:16 PM (4aXkb)

960 Because Mr Kerry's concession was delayed somewhat, some Americans and their political soul mates over here(UK) will cling to the notion that this contest-like the 2000 election-was somehow "stolen". This justification will not do this time around, not least because Mr Bush had a clear lead in the popular vote. There is an uncomfortable truth about John Kerry, and about Al Gore four years ago. Whatever people say about the baleful influence of the religious Right, or the Bush campaign's playing of the terrorism card, neither of these candidates, ultimately, was good enough to beat George W Bush.
A brilliant Democratic candidate would have won four years ago, and again on Tuesday. Mr Bush has proved himself the better campaigner not once, but twice, and that is a tough bullet for his vanquished opponents to chew on. It is also what tends to happen in a properly functioning democracy.

Posted by: Ken at November 04, 2004 04:24 PM (SEOFQ)

961 Message to Carl:

Then, why don't you pack up, sell your house, quit your job and move to Canada or some other country you wish to support? Maybe get a job at one of those lucrative places in Iraq...tax free money and they pay all your expenses.

One catch though, you may get kidnapped and beheaded.

Posted by: Laura at November 04, 2004 04:27 PM (ptOpl)

962 I see that Britain has already suffered its first three fatalities of the Bush election campaign.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 04, 2004 04:32 PM (4aXkb)

963 No one will comment on today's anniversary of the Iranian hostage situation that took place 25 yrs. ago today, when 44 hostages, Americans, were kidnapped by Iranian terrorists.

Hmmm, doesn't seem like we started it, does it? The borders should have been secured then, and security tightened. The administration in charge then did nothing. Now, everyone blames the current administration!!!

It all goes back to 1979...have you noticed how many foreigners started coming into this country since then? Coming here, setting up residence, taking our jobs, learning our transit system, getting their pilots' licenses...well, you know the rest.

Zarqawi pledged his alliance with Al Qaeda....Osame heads Al Qaeda...Zarqawi trained under Osama...getting clearer?

We need to get more aggressive and attack every single damned country that harbors terrorists. If we pull out and let them to their own, which I originally said but am hesitant now, they will destroy us.

It may take forever, but we cannot sit and do nothing. There is no peaceful solution.

Posted by: Laura at November 04, 2004 04:42 PM (ptOpl)

964 Cooq, under the BUSH CAMPAIGN??

NO FUCKHEAD, UNDER YOUR LEADER'S COMMAND!!! Go tell it to Blair, he got your country involved, Bush didn't. And those men went there willingly, knowing they could be killed, not that they deserved it of course, but they voluntarily went, under BLAIR'S LEADERSHIP.

You fucking arrogant bastard!

Posted by: Laura at November 04, 2004 04:46 PM (ptOpl)

965 What does the second Bush term mean for the United States? The economy is in urgent need of rather more attention than the President has been able to give it since September 11, 2001.
The balloning budget deficit requires cuts in public spending; Arnold Schwarzenegger has shown what can be done in California. Tax cuts are still the unique selling point of Bush's brand of politics, but priority should now go to the taxpayers of middle America rather than the corporate intrests of Wall Street. During his first term, "compassionate conservatism" was just a slogan; now Mr Bush can make it happen.
This, In my view, was not merely a vote for the status quo, but for an idealistic vision of America as the land of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Terrorism threatens all three, and the electorate chose the candidate whom it judged to be the best guardian of that patriotic archetype. Americans do not expect their president to run their lives for them, but to let them pursue their own, infinitely various, ways of life. Yet they knew exactly what Mr Bush stands for. His opposition to same-sex marriages, for example, was endorsed by constitutional amendments in 11 states. His attitude to embryonic stem cell research and abortion was equally clear. Second-term presidents are often less radical, and it may be that Mr Bush will appoint less abrasive colleagues in order to ameliorate America's image abroad. But the country he leads is diverging from Europe: it is younger, more self-confident, more prosperous, more devout, more diligent, more democratic and, in short, more conservative. Europe must come to terms, not only with Mr Bush, but with the nation that has elected him.
This is a president who really can speak for America.

Posted by: Adam at November 04, 2004 04:54 PM (SEOFQ)

966 Hey COOqarUK....I switched on Radio 3 at 7am. The news that Bush seemed to be on course for election was followed by a piece of music by Samuel Scheidt. Said it all.

Posted by: Trevor at November 04, 2004 05:02 PM (SEOFQ)

967 Coogie, ha ha ha, you called a lady(Laura) a f*cking b*tch because she disagreed with you and you call me crass??? Can we say pot calling the kettle black dude. YOU are the one who is crass ya twat.

Realize and it IS REALIZE you dumb twat, NOBODY owns language. Language in both the UK and the USA was brought by immigration. The "English language" originated from Germany and Germanic tribes who came to the British Isles and later from those who came to the US you dumb twat so according to your "logic", Germany owns your language. Thank Hans!! LOFL

When leaders of nations like Iraq as well as others stop harboring,plotting and funding attacks against us and leave us alone, then we'll stay out. Until then, we'll do what we have to to protect ourselves and if you don't like it, I can give you 3 guesses what you can kiss. Mind your own business and take care of the problems in your own country Coog. What part of this statement do YOU Europeans NOT f*cking understand?

Posted by: whatever at November 04, 2004 06:11 PM (mR349)

968 "NO FUCKHEAD, UNDER YOUR LEADER'S COMMAND!!! Go tell it to Blair, he got your country involved, Bush didn't. And those men went there willingly, knowing they could be killed, not that they deserved it of course, but they voluntarily went, under BLAIR'S LEADERSHIP."

Wrong! America pleaded for help, Blair was hardly gonna refuse. And if you really think those men go to the triangle of death voluntarily you are even more stupid than I thought.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 04, 2004 06:29 PM (8/kbp)

969 whatever

Realise and it IS REALISE you dumb twat.

And you do everything except call the langauge by its proper name... ENGLISH, you dumb twat!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 04, 2004 06:31 PM (8/kbp)

970 Does anyone think that by the time Hilary Clinton becomes President in 2008, that America will have caught Bin Laden?

Posted by: C00garUK at November 04, 2004 06:33 PM (8/kbp)

971 America BEGGED?????????????

You are fucking stoned. As I've said before, YOU are only on this fucking blog because YOUR leader made the decision to join forces with our country and there was NOT a draft, men went there to do what THEY felt was right, not what YOU think was wrong.

59,000,0000 people can't be WRONG. America spoke, we've got our man for another 4 years so WHY do you even CARE?

Go have your own election and vote your own leader OUT, if you've got any complaints.

I think you took respectable right out of this debate when you started called me stupid a long time ago because I happened to disagree with you. Then, it became stupid bitch.

The debate doesn't even make sense anymore, because all it is now is mudslinging, similiar to how the Bush/Kerry campaign went.

I'll debate, sure, but this going back and forth bullshit is schoolyard bickering, immature and utterly unnecessary.

You feel the need to keep pushing the same views on everyone, and at first, you had your followers, but the FACT (since you're so big on FACTS and the TRUTH) is that you are one, pathetic individual, who is probably not important in anyone's life, so he has to come on a blog to become anything of significance, and even that's not working.

So, continue the name calling, insults, snide remarks...your true character's coming through for all to see....you are making a fool of yourself now...the election's over, get over it and take it like a man.

Posted by: Laura at November 04, 2004 09:23 PM (ptOpl)

972 PS It figures not a damned thing was mentioned about my previous post, stating that today was the 25th anniv. of the hostage takover of Americans by Iranian terrorists.

Rusty now has put up a whole section about that. I have alluded to this ever since the first time I posted on this blog.

The true war on terrorism started Nov. 4, 1979.

Are you reading this, Cooqar? Comment on THAT.

Posted by: Laura at November 04, 2004 09:33 PM (ptOpl)

973 woman can vote in Iraq, coog, in January of course, but they already know they have the right, these women were in Baghdad, amazing the smiles they had amist all that terror, they are they real brave heros, the ones hanging on and going forward without hesitation to the cowardly terrorism and fear that surrounds them......

what is all this crap about Hillary Clinton being president...........first of all any woman that would let her husband cheat like that and totally ruin his own character.........give me a break she is there for the money and publicity....you can see the resentment and hatrid in her eyes, she is there to make a statment,,,,,not for the people, for selfish reasons............
God help us if we ever have a woman president,.
talk about hormones,,,,,we would be bombing someone every 28 days,,then saying did I do that??? he he he

some of you need a sense of humor on here,
You only have one life, make the best of it,

Hey Laura!!!!!!!!! come on coog, give her an answer, I would like to hear , for I myself also stated terrorism has been around for a while there???????????????????????//

Posted by: madarmywife at November 05, 2004 12:15 AM (ZvRZs)

974 I came on here today with the intention of apologising for sounding so anti-American in my last few posts.

So, before I read any of the responses I will so just that. I am sorry if came across at all Anti-American. I merely responded to insults with more insults. George W Bush knows all too well that fighting fire with fire often doesn't work, so I am embarrassed that I managed to fall into the same trap.

I think this may be my last post on this blog. I have made my opinions very clear regarding the illegal US-led invasion and occupation of Iraq. Nothing much more to say, except maybe to wish Bush well as I firmly believe that he did win the election fair and square, even though his country appears to be divided, its economy in a mess and on top of all that there is Iraq.

I strongly feel that in four years time many Americans will regret voting Bush back in.

However, at the end of the day we (republicans & Democrats, British & Americans) are on the same side. We just have different views on some matters. That isn't a bad thing.

I really would like to see the Muslims and Westerners living peacefully alongside one another. I realise that idealism will make many people on here very angry, but the ONLY way to have any chance of ensuring world peace is to better tolerate other views, lifestyles, etc.

I do NOT support terrorism! Terrorism has no more chance of achieving its objectives than Bush's counter-terrorism measures. This has been proved so many times over many generations. And living in the UK, I HAVE experienced first-hand living under the constant threat of terrorist activity, though admittedly not as close as those in Northern Ireland or other parts of the world.

Mr Bush, please use your ne four-year mandate usefully. Please realise that although America is a world superpower, it DOES rely heavily on support from the rest of the western world. You won't achieve that support or regain respect if you continue with your gung-ho attitude. There are many more hotspots in the Middle East that deserve equal priority.

Right, I feel as if I am ranting now, maybe because I am writing from the heart. So I will sign off by wishing everyone, including those who have insulted me and been insulted right back, very best wishes for the future.

Bye...

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 05:10 AM (GD5gp)

975 p.s. I have now read the replies and will comment on them:-

1) Laura is STILL a stupid bitch

2) what happened in Iran 25 years ago has no bearing whatsover on what is happening in Iraq today, so stop using it as an excuse.

3) Madarmywife wrote: "God help us if we ever have a woman president,.
talk about hormones,,,,,we would be bombing someone every 28 days,,then saying did I do that??? he he he "

You may not have noticed this, but you already do! 'he he he' (not funny killing all those innocent civilians

4) 59,000,000 people can't be wrong, but 55,000,000 can? Give me a fucking break, you stupid bitch!

5) Never do I recall saying that America begged, however it DID plead for the deployment of additional British troops. After all, Bush was hardly going to send more Americans to their certain deaths during his election campaign, was he?

6) Woman in Iraq certainly CANNOT vote, unless they have solved the problem of time travel, you stupid bitch!

7) Perhaps Laura could now give ME an answer to MY question: Will Bush get Bin-Laden during his next four years in office? Will he even bother trying? Looks to me like he already gave up and moved onto softer targets (Iraqi women & children)

madarmywife: It's humoUr dear! lol

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 05:25 AM (GD5gp)

976 It's fine if you disagree on Iraq etc. as everyone's entitled to their opinions, it's just the sarcasm people don't like and they react with hostility.

Posted by: whatever at November 05, 2004 05:41 AM (2ImOX)

977 We got Saddam. That's a start.

Letters from Iraq appeared in my paper today. One soldier wrote:

Mom and Dad, you wouldn't believe the outpouring of support we are getting from the Iraqi people...they constantly bombard us with gifts: goats, bread, etc.

They show us their scars from the torture chambers Saddam controlled. They are thankful we are there, fighting the insurgents.

There. I don't need any more proof than that. Bush got Saddam, an evil dictator who was murdering his own people, since the media is so biased against Bush, they blames the 100,000 killed on the US invasion.

Woulda been more had Saddam not been stopped. That is a step in the right direction.

Seems the UK bloggers are getting desperate by resorting to name calling and sarcasm.

That's okay. I'm done with you all and will not respond to any of your assisine comments because they do not matter.

My man got re-elected and I will bask in that knowledge, so fuck off and worry about your own elections and your own leader.

Posted by: Laura at November 05, 2004 09:03 AM (ptOpl)

978 Laura, never believe all you read in he papers:-


LEDYARD KING GANNETT NEWS SERVICE The Olympian Online

IRAQ: Latest developments

Your thoughts about war with Iraq.


WASHINGTON -- Letters from hometown soldiers describing their successes rebuilding Iraq have been appearing in newspapers across the country as U.S. public opinion on the mission sours.
And all the letters are the same.

A Gannett News Service search found identical letters from different soldiers with the 2nd Battalion of the 503rd Airborne Infantry Regiment, also known as "The Rock," in 11 newspapers, including Snohomish, Wash.

The Olympian received two identical letters signed by different hometown soldiers: Spc. Joshua Ackler and Spc. Alex Marois, who is now a sergeant. The paper declined to run either because of a policy not to publish form letters.

The five-paragraph letter talks about the soldiers' efforts to re-establish police and fire departments, and build water and sewer plants in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk, where the unit is based.

"The quality of life and security for the citizens has been largely restored, and we are a large part of why that has happened," the letter reads.

It describes people waving at passing troops and children running up to shake their hands and say thank you.

It's not clear who wrote the letter or organized sending it to soldiers' hometown papers.

Six soldiers reached by GNS directly or through their families said they agreed with the letter's thrust. But none of the soldiers said he wrote it, and one said he didn't even sign it.

Marois, 23, told his family he signed the letter, said Moya Marois, his stepmother. But she said he was puzzled why it was sent to the newspaper in Olympia. He attended high school in Olympia but no longer considers the city home, she said. Moya Marois and Alex's father, Les, now live near Kooskia, Idaho.

A seventh soldier didn't know about the letter until his father congratulated him for getting it published in the local newspaper in Beckley, W.Va.

"When I told him he wrote such a good letter, he said: 'What letter?' " Timothy Deaconson said Friday, recalling the phone conversation he had with his son, Nick. "This is just not his (writing) style."

He spoke to his son, Pfc. Nick Deaconson, at a hospital where he was recovering from a grenade explosion that left shrapnel in both his legs.

Sgt. Christopher Shelton, who signed a letter that ran in the Snohomish Herald, said Friday that his platoon sergeant had distributed the letter and asked soldiers for the names of their hometown newspapers. Soldiers were asked to sign the letter if they agreed with it, said Shelton, whose shoulder was wounded during an ambush earlier this year.

"Everything it said is dead accurate. We've done a really good job," he said by phone from Italy, where he was preparing to return to Iraq.

Sgt. Todd Oliver, a spokesman for the 173rd Airborne Brigade, which counts the 503rd as one of its units, said he was told a soldier wrote the letter, but he didn't know who. He said the brigade's public affairs unit was not involved.

"When he asked other soldiers in his unit to sign it, they did," Oliver explained in an e-mail response to a GNS inquiry. "Someone, somewhere along the way, took it upon themselves to mail it to the various editors of newspapers across the country."

Lt. Col. Bill MacDonald, a spokesman for the 4th infantry Division that is heading operations in north-central Iraq, said he had not heard about the letter-writing campaign.

Neither had Lt. Cmdr. Nick Balice, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Fla.

A recent poll suggests that Americans are increasingly skeptical of America's prolonged involvement in Iraq. A USA Today-CNN-Gallup Poll released Sept. 23 found 50 percent believe that the situation in Iraq was worth going to war over, down from 73 percent in April.

The letter talks about the soldiers' mission, saying, "one thousand of my fellow soldiers and I parachuted from ten jumbo jets." It describes Kirkuk as "a hot and dusty city of just over a million people." It tells about the progress they have made.

"The fruits of all our soldiers' efforts are clearly visible in the streets of Kirkuk today. There is very little trash in the streets, many more people in the markets and shops, and children have returned to school," the letter reads. "I am proud of the work we are doing here in Iraq and I hope all of your readers are as well."

Sgt. Shawn Grueser of Poca, W.Va., said he spoke to a military public affairs officer whose name he couldn't remember about his accomplishments in Iraq for what he thought was a news release to be sent to his hometown paper in Charleston, W.Va. But the 2nd Battalion soldier said he did not sign any letter.

Although Grueser said he agrees with the letter's sentiments, he was uncomfortable that a letter with his signature did not contain his own words or spell out his own accomplishments.

"It makes it look like you cheated on a test, and everybody got the same grade," Grueser said by phone from a base in Italy where he had just arrived from Iraq.

Moya Marois said she is proud of her stepson Alex, the former Olympia resident. But she worries that the letter tries to give legitimacy to a war she doesn't think was justified.

"We're going to support our son," she said. But "there are a lot of Americans that are not in support of this war that would like to see them returned home, and think it's going to get worse."

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 09:25 AM (tJwH6)

979 Likewise. The articles were printed in my paper but were published from the magazine "Life" and they had families that were photographed by pics of their dead sons, brothers, husbands, etc.

Again, you believe what your media tells you. I believe the families, of which I also know personally some here in Texas that have vouched for what I have said.

Do you know anyone personally?

Posted by: Laura at November 05, 2004 10:26 AM (ptOpl)

980 I see the US is telling the civilians to leave. Good for them. Maybe we can bomb the shit out of the place now.

Posted by: Laura at November 05, 2004 10:54 AM (ptOpl)

981 Mr Bush's re-election was no narrow victory for religious zealots. It confirms that America is a decidedly conservative country, but not an alien one.
And its implications for the rest of the world are not baleful. All the world has to fear now is four more years of an America doing its damnedest to export the value that is at the heart of all of its people's beliefs: that people should be free to choose their own direction as the American people so joyously were this week.

Posted by: alan at November 05, 2004 11:33 AM (luTzr)

982 It is hard not to be depressed by the Bush victory. It was probably naive to think that John Kerry would ride up on his white Democrat donkey and solve everything. But now we seem stuck between the devil - Osama bin Laden - and the deep red, white and blue sea of the American Christian fundamentalists.

Posted by: Will at November 05, 2004 11:40 AM (luTzr)

983 "Again, you believe what your media tells you."

Laura, I was quoting from an AMERICAN newspaper, something that you seemed quite happy to do to put YOUR point across. STUPID BITCH!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 12:58 PM (n6pXa)

984 "I see the US is telling the civilians to leave. Good for them. Maybe we can bomb the shit out of the place now."

When you are able to demonstrate that you are anything but a STUPID FUCKING BITCH, I will be happy to stop calling you one.

Btw, you lied again... said you weren't going to respond to me any more. Bush is welcome to your vote.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 01:00 PM (n6pXa)

985 The second Bush term constitutes a further opportunity for the Prime Minister to exert influence in Washington and on behalf of the White House.
Jacques Chirac is a diminishing force in France, never mind abroad. Gerhard Schroder has made a slight political recovery in Germany of late but remains in dire trouble with his electorate. Mr Bush will, inevitably, soon lose some experienced members of his Administration and their successors will take time to establish themselves. Mr Blair should not be shy, despite the abuse that he will recieve from his own party, and must again take a leading role in international affairs.

Posted by: Niomi at November 05, 2004 01:16 PM (8TQMz)

986 TO ALL THE WHINGERS.

I suggest that MPs who voted for the war in Iraq should not now be whingeing about where on the battle-field our troops should be deployed. There is no such thing as a safe war (that is why most military men are very cautious about getting into one). Once involved, one cannot cherry-pick which part of the war one takes part in; to an extent, that is decided by the enemy.
It is good that the British sector has been rather quieter than further north, but there was never any guarantee that this would be so. Nor can we complain if called upon to provide support where the fighting is heaviest.
Winning a war takes total commitment by all concerned; half measures are nearly always fatal.
What is crystal clear is that neither we nor the Americans have enough troops on the ground if peaceful elections in January are to have any realistic chance. The Government got us into this mess; instead of planning to reduce the size of the Army, it should now deploy the forces necessary to complete the job in a timely fashion.

Posted by: alistar at November 05, 2004 01:32 PM (8TQMz)

987 FUCK YOU BRITS....LIMEY FUCKERS.

Posted by: H at November 05, 2004 01:37 PM (8TQMz)

988 Those who conceived the 9/11 attacks did so after failing to rouse their compatriots to rebel to enforce an Islamic state regime to prevent the infiltration of corrupting western culture. Those who voted to re-elect Bush were, we are told, mainly motivated by the desire to preserve family values and so protect their families from what they see as corrupting western culture. Where do we go from here?

Posted by: Jeanne at November 05, 2004 02:56 PM (Ze1k6)

989 BUSH BASHER'S.

I gladly voted for Bush. Without getting into braggadocio, I hold a PhD in chemistry, an MBA and know more about British history than most of my English friends. I am not an evangelical, and have not been to church in five years.
My parents were born in Europe and I travelled extensively there. Bush and I hold vastly different views on abortion rights, stem cell research, gay marriage etc.
I voted for him because we are in a war with an implacable foe. If the 20th century taught us anything, it is that the forces of tyranny understand solely and exclusively superior force applied with resolution. Neither Kerry nor most of western Europe is up to that task. Like Churchill in the 30s, we have few allies. But I believe we are right.
While we are on the subject of impressions, here are mine of Europe: you are a continent with history of blood on your hands, almost two millennia in duration. When you weren't killing Jews, you killed Muslims. When you tired of that you killed each-other for land or in support of some flavour of Christianity that was "the one true faith".
Alternately, you killed the Mayans, Incas and Aztecs who refused the true cross. And you subjugated as much of the world as you could, leaving us with a hodgepodge of borders which are the cause of much hatred and bloodshed to this day. And now you have not the stomach for this fight.
Now that we have spewed our venom at each other, can we sit down and find our points of common humanity, and begin to tackle a set of monstrous problems for the sake of all mankind?

Posted by: Jack at November 05, 2004 03:22 PM (Ze1k6)

990 I agree with you Jack. After almost three years of vicious, relentless and often infantile Bush-bashing, much of it homegrown, the American people have returned him to office with the biggest popular vote for any US president in history. If the rightwards drift of the US electorate is to be checked at all, it's more likely to happen through intelligent, informed opposition than the populist nonsense so beloved of European liberals, espoused by Moore, Franken etc. If Tuesday's results illustrate anything, it's that you don't always fight fire with fire.

Posted by: Liam at November 05, 2004 03:34 PM (Ze1k6)

991 Cooq, you're right I did lie; but your posts continue to spew forth with name calling and insults. It's obvious I have rattled your chain, because if I am that stupid and that ignorant of the facts, surely you would not be continuing this discussion.

You won't let this go, and as long as you continue with the name calling, I will defend myself. Your rudeness cuts to the core and cannot be denied.

Whatever self respect you may have left, do us all a favor and stop it...right now...you posted on the one hand that you were okay with the election now, that you are not anti-American, and in the next post, go rambling off and start swearing at me again. Are you bipolar?

The news media EVERYWHERE is slanted and biased. They want to report all the gore and blood. No one wants to read about the good things. The soldiers carry many injured civilians away from the bombings of the INSURGENTS, yet you never see that on the headlines.

It's okay though, no sweat off my back. Continue with your diatribes and constantly having to prove yourself. If I didn't push your buttons, you'd be ignoring me.

As I said before, if I'm that stupid, continuing a discussion with me makes YOU stupid too, according to you, right?

Posted by: Laura at November 05, 2004 03:35 PM (ptOpl)

992 Yeah...go Laura..suck it to him.

And I think I agree with Jack and Liam. A bit to intellagent for me, but if its against those pussy Brits like that COOarUK bastard, then I agree.
Give him some more Laura!!!!!!

Posted by: H at November 05, 2004 03:46 PM (Ze1k6)

993 In response to Jack/Liam: It is the often repeated view in Britain that while Blair has provided misguided loyalty to Bush, he also provides a restraining influence and wise council. In reality, they are peas in a pod: spiritually, morally, politically, ideologically and, yes, intellectually.
They also share the same economic views, conservative values and attitudes towards the rest of the world.
So, unless we are prepared to ditch our own version of Bush, then a period of silence on the shortcomings of the US president would be welcome.

Posted by: alistar at November 05, 2004 03:59 PM (Ze1k6)

994 Jack

For someone with an MBA, you don't half talk a load of shit!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 07:16 PM (rLehn)

995 Laura

You admit that you lied, and not for the first time (lied, not admitted it).

There goes your credibilty, stupid fucking bitch.

And as for you rattling my chain, no chance stupid fucking bitch, cos I got truth, honesty, integrity and justice on my side.

All you have is a war-mongering president, hell-bent on imposing American values on the rest of the world. Even he's too stupid to realise that it'll never work.

Goodnight.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 07:19 PM (rLehn)

996 For the moment, it's just the Muslims that you are fighting.

However, carry on losing the respect and support of western democracies and other countries around the world and the future for the United States of America does not begin to look too rosy.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 05, 2004 07:23 PM (rLehn)

997 Coogar,
I can't in anyway find any relation to you and the following word my friend, I don't appreciate the name calling, there is nothing sincere or of moral value in anything you say,



Integrity



1. quality of state of being complete; unbroken condition; wholeness; entirety 2. the quality of state of being umimpaired; perfect condition; soundness 3. the quality or state of being of sound moral principle; uprightness, honesty, and sincerity.

Posted by: madarmywife at November 05, 2004 11:33 PM (TpKDV)

998 for coogar???? define integrity

1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : INCORRUPTIBILITY
2 : an unimpaired condition : SOUNDNESS
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : COMPLETENESS
synonym see HONESTY

Posted by: madarmywife at November 05, 2004 11:49 PM (TpKDV)

999 for coogar,
you called me a stupid bitch because I said the Iraqi women will vote? here are a few facts from someone else coogar,,,,,,,,you need to do some research, maybe you thought I meant Kuwait or Saudi, I hope so, other wise you are clueless to what is going on my friend.

IRAQI WOMEN:
A dangerous run in post-Saddam election
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI
Associated Press Writer



BAGHDAD, Iraq - Salama al-Khafaji, a deeply religious woman in an all-enveloping black robe, says that if elected, she'll bring "bright Islamic thoughts" to Iraq's legislature.

On the other hand, Wijdan al-Khuzaei, who wears a lavender pants suit and dyes her hair blond, wants to keep religion out of politics.

What they and many other potential female candidates have in common in running in the January election is a desire to ensure that Iraqi women vote their own way, not as their husbands demand.

"We want ... to have our own voice, our own choice and our own vote," says Salam Smeisem, 45, an economic adviser in the interim government who is also thinking of running.

They have been encouraged by a clause in the interim constitution guaranteeing at least a quarter of the 275 seats in Iraq's new National Assembly to women.


Posted by: madarmywife at November 06, 2004 12:37 AM (TpKDV)

1000 Madamrywife-your "God help us if we had a woman pres., we'd be bombing someone every 28 days" has got to be the DUMBEST statement I've heard, even if it was a stab as humor. Anyway, the male hormone testosterone is shown to cause increased aggression and men commit 80% of violence. Maybe that's why men bomb someone all throughout the month instead of every 28 days, he he he. Seriously, give me a break.

Posted by: jj at November 06, 2004 05:46 AM (Rgs4K)

1001 In 1888 the Scots historian James Bryce published his The American Commonwealth. In a chapter entitled Why Great Men are not chosen Presidents, he recorded that there was a difference between what Europeans looked for in their leaders, and what Americans found attractive.
Europeans, he wrote, sought "eloquence in speech, or some striking achievment in war or administration", while citizens of the United States preferred their candidate to be "sensible, vigorous, and above all, magnetic". They did not value "originality, profundity, a fine culture or a wide knowledge".
Perhaps Senator Kerry was fighting the wrong contest on the wrong continent.

Posted by: george at November 06, 2004 06:50 AM (C6f9V)

1002 Europeans, such as, COOqarUK, seem baffled by Christian faith of many Americans, including our president. But many of us are baffled that you are baffled. Many Americans, especially Ohioans like myself, are third and fourth generation descendants of European immigrants, all of whom were people of strong faith. In the homes of the immigrants of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, prayer, Bible study and church participation were a common fact of life.
Our European ancestors brought their faith with them. And they taught this faith to their children, who taught it their own, down to the present time. It's not only Americans, it's part of who we are as European descendants.
So now it appears that Europe has not taken a parallel path of faith. Europe has not followed the traditions of Wesley and JS Bach.
The grand cathedrals of Europe are now museums-cold, dead relics of what was once a warm, living faith.
We wonder how this happened. Our immigrant families remained safe on this side of the pond, while our European cousins endured the horrors of two world wars.
Perhaps this undermined the faith of our ancestral continent. Perhaps Europe's fine intellectual tradition supplanted religious roots.
It might help you to better understand us and yourselves.

Posted by: Jay at November 06, 2004 07:11 AM (C6f9V)

1003 CooqarUK:

Insulting a lady is integrity? LMFAO! You are nothing, your comments are nothing. You ramble on like a schoolboy, yet you have lost all credibility when you start attacking women on this blog.

I reported you to the webmaster. You are in need of serious help, my boy.

Leave the discussions to mature adults. Where I come from, insulting a lady would result in some serious ass-kickin'.

You have no respect, let alone integrity. We don't give a shit about your limey-ass opinions, your whining and moaning, your bleeding heart rantings and ravings.

You are a very sick individual.

Posted by: Joe_Blow at November 06, 2004 09:13 AM (ptOpl)

1004 Laura is no lady, she is a stupid fucking bitch. Have you not been following, joe blow?

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:01 AM (5cBHp)

1005 Yes Jay, America is very backward. Thanks

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:07 AM (5cBHp)

1006 And you are no man. You start calling ladies stupid, fucking bitches, and you're nothing but a fraud. You have no integrity, no respect for yourself or others.

Please go away.

Posted by: Joe_Blow at November 06, 2004 10:07 AM (ptOpl)

1007 "1. quality of state of being complete; unbroken condition; wholeness; entirety 2. the quality of state of being umimpaired; perfect condition; soundness 3. the quality or state of being of sound moral principle; uprightness, honesty, and sincerity."

Yep, just about sumes me up, madarmywife. Thanks.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:09 AM (5cBHp)

1008 "Leave the discussions to mature adults. Where I come from, insulting a lady would result in some serious ass-kickin'."

That doesn't surprise me in the least. After all, illegal assualts on innocent individuals (not to mention the odd country) seemsto be just about all your country is capable of at present.

I've reported you to the Webmaster.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:13 AM (5cBHp)

1009 "And you are no man. You start calling ladies stupid, fucking bitches, and you're nothing but a fraud. You have no integrity, no respect for yourself or others.

Please go away."

I am a man. I start calling stupid fucking bitches stupid fucking bitches because they act like stupid fucking bitches so therefore they must be stupid fucking bitches (you know the sort - those who advocate nuking entire countries just for the sake of revenge). I am not a fraud. I have plenty of integrity, lots of respect for myself and others (stupid fucking bitches and some of their supporters excepted).

Please go away.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:19 AM (5cBHp)

1010 "We don't give a shit about your limey-ass opinions, your whining and moaning, your bleeding heart rantings and ravings."

If that's the case, then stop responding to them from your obviously rattled cage and get back to supporting your country's illegal war and occupation and your war-criminal goofy monkey-looking president.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:23 AM (5cBHp)

1011 Jay

Just to clear up any misunderstanding, Europe is a continent not a country.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:26 AM (5cBHp)

1012 LMFAO!!! How about an illegal assault on a lady? You have proved that your kind is no better at keeping peace than anyone.

You want world peace, bud? Try becoming a member of the human race and start treating people with respect.

You talk about being against the war, yet you cannot carry on a decent discussion with anyone who has differing views!!

What a hypocrite. Peace loving? More like a fag who got a thing against women.

Posted by: Joe_Blow at November 06, 2004 10:26 AM (ptOpl)

1013 "yet you have lost all credibility when you start attacking women on this blog."

Just like America has lost all credibility since its illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq (100,000+ innocent women and children killed so far) you mean?

Okay, I think I'm with you now. Thanks.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:29 AM (5cBHp)

1014 Shut the fuck up, CooqarUK, you are digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself with your stupidity and assumptions.


"your country's illegal invasion", etc....you don't know WHERE I'm from.

Other people besides those from the US can be in support of Bush and Blair too, you know. Oh, that's right, you DON'T know.

So, shut up, faggot.

Posted by: Joe_Blow at November 06, 2004 10:29 AM (ptOpl)

1015 joe blow, you lack the mental or intellectual capacity (not to mention being on the wrong side of justice over the war) to defeat me, so why don't you do yourself a favour and go try get a blow job (geddit? LOL) off that stupid fucking bitch.

Btw, for the sake of clarity I like my thing up women not against them. But I don't fuck stupid fucking bitches.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:34 AM (5cBHp)

1016 Joe Blow

You must be American... you spelled arse wrong.

No pride, eh? Why else would you attempt to cover up your nationality? Ah, but covering up is something your country participates in rather a lot these days, eh?

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:40 AM (5cBHp)

1017 CooqUK, you have now sunk to a new low. This is no longer a debate over anything but a personal vendetta of yours to be right about anything and everything and to hell with everyone else.

You need help desperately. I hope you seek it. I have better things to do with my time than to argue with a good for nothing asshole.

Just wanted to defend a lady. Bye, Laura. I hope you will see through Cooqar's immaturity and simply ignore him.

It's a losing battle with him. Don't insult your intelligence anymore by responding to him. I'm not either anymore. He's proven his point: an egotistical maniac, with a hatred towards women.

Rusty, you really need to clean up this blog or shut it down, as you've mentioned a while ago.

Posted by: Joe_Blow at November 06, 2004 10:43 AM (ptOpl)

1018 joe blow

You call people bud, and fag.

And you have an American ISP.

The evidence is mounting. Unlike the evidence in support of the illegal US-led war and occupation of Iraq, which of course simply does not exist.

Like I said, you're not clever enough to defeat me.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:48 AM (5cBHp)

1019 Bye Joe, have a nice day!

Next...

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 10:51 AM (5cBHp)

1020 Let it be shown that Joe Blow (who is probably long gone by now, with his tail between his legs) added nothing of substance to this thread.

He just came here to launch a personal attack on me (even as good as admitted it) failed miserably and gave up after half a dozen or so posts.

He even bleated at Rusty (who remains an honourable man in my opinion) in an attempt to supress free speech.

There's weakness for you. No integrity there.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 01:15 PM (5cBHp)

1021 Yes COOqarUK, Europe is a continent. I did not state or elude to the fact that Europe was a country. Please make yourself clear.

Posted by: Jay at November 06, 2004 01:38 PM (VL2Mp)

1022 The ability of the US to run such a closely fought election between two candidates without violence or the destruction of property is a remarkable example to the rest of the world.
The graciousness and humility with which John Kerry conceded defeat shows democracy at its finest.
The US has demonstrated that the things which unite its citizens-liberty, free speech, rule of law, humanity, progress and peace-are far greater than the things that divide them.

Posted by: Jay at November 06, 2004 01:46 PM (VL2Mp)

1023 I tend to agree.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 01:53 PM (5cBHp)

1024 In my view, Mr Bush has won fair (so far as I can see) and square. He and his country-and the rest of the world-now have to deal with it.
Mr Bush faces a clear choice at home. He can treat his mandate as a blank cheque to govern in the intrests of the conservative (and for conservatives read, in many cases, anti-black) voters who backed him in such numbers-shaping a conservative majority on the Supreme Court, waging war on legal abortion, amending the constitution to prevent gay marriage, unpicking affirmative action, limiting and marginalising dissent still further, flirting with the notion of declaring the USA an explicitly Christian, English-speaking nation, seeking in all things to construct the conservative Republican hegemony for which Karl Rove has long dreamed and schemed. Or he can recognise the greater wisdom and greater long-term security that mutual respect and bipartisan reconciliation will provide to a United States, and to a wider world, in which the belief in America's manifest destiny is not shared with such fervour as it is among evangelical conservatives-or evan shared at all. We have few illusions about the course he will take. Yet both America and the world need a handshake right now, not a clenched fist of defiance. In an interconnected world, such choices matter and shape all our uncertain futures.

Posted by: Adam at November 06, 2004 02:09 PM (VL2Mp)

1025 BITTER FRENCH.

The coming battle for Fallujah is critical to Iraq's chances of a better future. That was made clear yesterday to the European Union's 25 leaders by Iyad Allawi. It was his first visit to Brussels, the Iraqi Prime Minister insisted that those masterminding the campaign of terror had to be defeated amd the civilians of Fallujah liberated before his Government could regain full control of all 18 Iraqi provinces. Only then can elections be held in January that are fair, free and representative.
The Europeans gave verbal support but did little to counter Mr Allawi's earlier telling criticism that most were simply spectators of his country's suffering. There was an offer of a mere £11.5 million in extra aid is hardly going to underpin pious promises of support. At least the EU leaders stayed to hear him. President Chirac's snub - hurrying off to offer condolences on the death of United Arab Emirates ruler - typifies the point-scoring that is more important for some leaders than a stable and successful Iraq.

Posted by: Adam at November 06, 2004 03:02 PM (KT1YH)

1026 In mourning yet more British deaths in Iraq, let us recall that the graves of the British Armed Forces are maintained in 148 countries and lie in unnumbered seas and oceans, as their sacrificial contribution to the civilising and stabilising influence of our great country through the centuries.

Posted by: Will at November 06, 2004 03:09 PM (KT1YH)

1027 I have two words for you CoogarUK:

ASSHOLE

Posted by: KungFu at November 06, 2004 06:44 PM (ptOpl)

1028 That's one word, ya thick twat!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 06, 2004 07:21 PM (uBAvR)

1029 sticks and stones J.J. sticks and stones....
lets get really silly here,
maybe the 80% is because they are just moody,male assholes from britian figuring for the most part of the month,,,,,,the other 20% would correctly stand for the female 3 to 7 day punishment of apple tasting.........because the man was a coward to do it first.......

get a life and have a laugh........

that was the stupidness reply to any comment I have ever scene J.J. he he he

coogar, where is all this name calling coming from....?????

Posted by: madarmywife at November 06, 2004 07:47 PM (Pr/c6)

1030 Okay, then here's the second:

motherfuckincocksuckinprick

Posted by: KungFu at November 06, 2004 07:47 PM (ptOpl)

1031 why do u people bother getting on this blog just to argue, i mean oh my god its just a fucking blog... who cares who started this or that or whos right or whos wrong... the situation here is ken bigley not the rights and wrongs of every damn thing. may bigleys family find strenght and mr. bigley rest in peace. for the guys that disrespect women r low life nobodies anyways... they will never amount to anything in life but to put down women. for the girls who the guys disrespecting just ignore the fuckers, their opinions and thoughts about u arent important, this blog isnt to argue its to post yur sympathy and thoughts to the bigley family and to post yur opinions about BIGLEY not EACHOTHER

Posted by: stupidasspeopleonthisblog at November 07, 2004 03:40 AM (3EwQJ)

1032 why do u people bother getting on this blog just to argue, i mean oh my god its just a fucking blog... who cares who started this or that or whos right or whos wrong... the situation here is ken bigley not the rights and wrongs of every damn thing. may bigleys family find strenght and mr. bigley rest in peace. for the guys that disrespect women r low life nobodies anyways... they will never amount to anything in life but to put down women. for the girls who the guys disrespecting just ignore the fuckers, their opinions and thoughts about u arent important, this blog isnt to argue its to post yur sympathy and thoughts to the bigley family and to post yur opinions about BIGLEY not EACHOTHER

Posted by: stupidasspeopleonthisblog at November 07, 2004 03:41 AM (3EwQJ)

1033 It would appear that the insults are coming from kung fu, madarmywife.

Don't worry, it's all water off a ducks back my dear.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 07, 2004 04:17 AM (CH2fw)

1034 Thanks for the lecture, stupidasspeopleonthisblog. LOVE your name btw, quite apt I feel.

And your input to this blog is what exactly? What are YOUR opinions about Bigley? You seem to have plenty about each other.

I do not disrepect women, only stupid fucking bitches. President Bush has overseen the murder of 1000s of innocent women and children since the start of his illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq... Now that's REAL disrespect!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 07, 2004 04:23 AM (CH2fw)

1035 So people, Mr Bush has been re-elected, primarily on the basis of his morality, by church-going Middle America.
Hallelujah!
It is this issue that seems most to scare the intellectual and liberal British and European television and print media. I am fed up with my Christian views being interpreted by the media as bigoted. Given that the world's leading democracy has so clearly spoken, can we at least allow Christian morality to be presented fairly and positively in the debate alongside liberal elitism that seems to have a voice on every television and news outlet?
Family life, marriage, pregnancy and abortion, euthanasia, drugs and alcohol are all issues where liberalism is failing - let Christian morality have its voice.

Posted by: Ian at November 07, 2004 05:58 AM (+gmB0)

1036 In response to Ian: The Bush camp can argue that pessimists have been predicting apocalypse for years and it hasn't happened. This is true. It may not happen for another few years either; but equally the fall from grace could be quite soon. Once markets change their minds, their revenge can be swift and apolitical, as John Major's administration found to its cost. The new president needs a programme to abolish the tax cuts instead of extending them, coupled with judicious spending cuts that hopefully preserve as much as possible of the increased spending on Medicare, one of the few creditable things Bush has done in the fiscal field. The possibility of a sharp slowdown in the US and an even sharper one in China should galvanise Europe, in particular, into generating more consumer demand and to act as the economic giant it ought to be.

Posted by: Will at November 07, 2004 06:29 AM (GTFZh)

1037 Evidence that the White House is prepared to lean on Ariel Sharon - while Europe tries to influence the Palestinians - would be a welcome signal that a second term will be different. So would any sign that the US understands that defeating terrorists needs a deeper understanding of its root causes - in poverty, underdevelopment and injustice. That might, just, persuade France and Germany to help salvage something from the mayhem of Iraq - painful proof of the limits of power and the fact that even a hegemony needs friends. That is also underlined by the looming crisis over Iran's nuclear ambitions - a matter of truly global importance. It is foolish to pretend that the world salutes Mr Bush's triumph. But different policies could work wonders for Washington, and the world.

Posted by: andy at November 07, 2004 06:48 AM (cmOXV)

1038 To COOqarUK and the like.

The attitude of the majority of Europeans towards Mr Bush in particular, and America in general, can be summed up in three words: prejudice, snobbery, envy. I am amazed Americans are so patient, but there are signs that this is running out. Following Mr Bush's re-election, their irritation towards our intolerance will doubtless grow. And who can blame them?
Europe's leaders have much to learn, because it is now clearer than ever that, as far as America is concerned, they have completely lost the plot. In fact, their ignorance is lamentable. They had better smarten up, and quickly.

Posted by: jak at November 07, 2004 12:23 PM (ToYpe)

1039 Jak.

The Republicans have secured a strong hold over my country; they dominate the Senate, the House of Representatives and state governorships. Yet, Mr Bush is not revered; instead his campaign of installing fear in Americans has succeeded. We are constantly barraged by reports that the terrorists will attack again, and Mr Bush pounces on each report, claiming he is the only person who will protect this country.
I spent six months studying and living in London. It was a great learning experience for an American. We are taught from a very early age that the citizens of the world, if they had a choice, would leave their families and homes and relocate to America. We are taught we are respected and loved throughout the world.
I quickly learnt that this is not the case. Yet many Americans do not leave our country, or even their states for that matter. Instead, they believe the propaganda that is spewed in American schools and that is why Mr Bush is successful. He continues the deceit while citizens of the world are disappointed and angered by the international bully we seem to have become. That is why Mr Kerry's vision of diplomacy over immediate attack appealed to me and many of my peers, but obviously the sentiment was not shared by enough of us.

Posted by: Kathleen at November 07, 2004 12:44 PM (ToYpe)

1040 Kathleen, people like you piss me off.
There's no excuses, no arguing, no recounts, the result stands. Mr Bush won the presidential election with a mandate that includes a majority in the Electoral College and a majority share of the popular vote. The allegations of discrepancies that have hung over him since 2000 (largly from the Left and its rabble-rouser, Michael Moore) have been quashed by a record turnout on Tuesday.
The opinion polls that predicted victory for Kerry late into the campaign got it completely wrong and the people decided to keep the horse running in midstream. With a clearer presidential mandate than in 2000, control of the Senate and the House of Representatives (including the crushing defeat of Tom Daschle, minority leader in the Senate) and other gubernatorial victories, the question remains: if Bush is such a hate figure, how did he pull off such a remarkable second victory?
The media portrayal of him is obviously not what the American people think, so somehow we are getting mixed signals.

Posted by: Matt at November 07, 2004 04:14 PM (zKyO/)

1041 Matt, so true! 55,000,000 + voters can't be wrong! The moaners and whiners will say we were "misled, lied to, brainwashed"...American people are the most intelligent in the world. If you look at previous elections during wars, it has always been the custom to retain the leader, rather than change leadership in the middle of a war.

Whenever there are fatalities in this Iraq war, they always show you maimed children, innocents on the streets full of blood, etc. They don't tell you how that happened. Car and suicide bombings are rampant and soldiers that I know have repeatedly said that the Iraqi people continue to support the troops, that is, whoever is left, they were told to leave the area.

They don't show you the soldiers that carry out injured women and children. Of course not. The media is so slanted, it disgusts me.

The Michael Moore's of this world disgust me also.

And can someone tell me why Arafat, one of the most hated leaders of all time, won a Nobel Peace Prize in 1994????? I would prefer that he died a nice, long, painful death but I see his liver has failed, so it shouldn't be too long now.

Too bad we can't say the same for Zarqawi, Osama, and the others.

Posted by: Laura at November 07, 2004 08:20 PM (ptOpl)

1042 C00qurUK,
dude you seriously need some angermanagement classes or a shrink cause you get offended so easily and if everyone doesn't agree with you then hell breaks loose. I don't care what you think about me thats the joy of it people can't get to me, you can't put me down cause to me your just a squashed bug understand my shoe. Which means what you say to me or about me doesn't mean sqawt. But anywho. My opinion about Mr. Bigley is he died a cruel and unfair death and Mr. Blair is a sorry bastard for just letting him die like that. He had a family along with all these other victims that loved them, and wanted them to come home but hell no did they get any help, NO THEY DID NOT. Their lives we're taking from them beneath their will. I feel bad for the Bigley family and Mr. Bigley for having to lose his life to some cruel fucking animals.. Thats my opinion.

Posted by: stupidasspeopleonthisblog at November 07, 2004 09:39 PM (PSbKv)

1043 I have to agree with Matt and Laura on their previous post, especially all the wonderful loving news we are giving or caring of Arafat....give me a break

how do all these whiners have such a deep understanding of what Kerry was going to do if he became president? The American's that voted for Kerry, are the ones the british claim we all are, just arrogants that listen to what they want to hear, looking for the easy way out, not seeing the whole picture?, get up in the morning and turn on cnn or their local news while drinking their coffee, blinded to the facts of what the world is coming to, what it has already been, but there they are in their protected little houses or apartments, drawing their little paychecks or retirement, wanting everything done for them, but will have nothing to do with helping , give me , give me , give me,,,,,,,,I would say the people on here are right, we do have a connection to the Brits who are moaning and whinning on here,

Bush won the election, Bush will get the job done, we already know your point about the innocent women and children Coogar and no one on here is happy about that, but all innocent women and children all over the world are in harms way, just doesn't matter does it, unless it is on your own door step.

You called me a S....B...tch for saying Iraqi women can vote,,,,,,,,,,,,didn't hear any reply on my post that showed they can?????

Godspeed to the troops in Falujah, may they get the trash terrorist...........who are doing and causing the innocent killing of women, children, westerners, the Iraqi police, soldiers, etc...etc...etc.......the ones who have been killing for years and years before we got there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: madarmywife at November 07, 2004 10:48 PM (M+WZR)

1044 The Lauras (aka stupid fucking bitches) disgust me also.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 08, 2004 12:46 AM (lnoxX)

1045 CooqarUK:

With your last post, dude, you show your immaturity and obnoxiousness. Laura was NOT responding to you, just made a post and yet you STILL are slamming her for her views.

You, my friend, are a nutcase. Simple as that. It is obvious you cannot keep a debate going unless you viciously insult and name call when the argument isn't going in your favor.

You have now shown your true colors. You say you have pity for the poor victims of this senseless war, yet you show no compassion for anyone, but especially Laura, on this blog.

Me thinks you're a big fraud, and if your country had not become involved in this occupation, we wouldn't even be reading your vile and immature bleatings.

Do us all a favor and just GO. We are getting tired of your personal war here. Talk about an illegal invasion, you've started one here yourself.

Posted by: VinnyBoy at November 08, 2004 07:39 AM (ptOpl)

1046 vinnyboy

You're not too short on the insults youself. You think I am mad, a nutcase, etc. You are entitled to your opinion, however if you support Bush and his illegal war and occupation of Iraq, then in my opinion it is you who should be seeking help.

Thos who come on here in support of the illegal war and occupation deserve my compassion? Get real!

And whether or not my country was involved would not make a difference to me, as Bush's war-mongering gung-ho attitude and actions have an effect on the rest of the world.

Ket me make this very clear: I have started no illegal invasion. I come on here to express my right to free speech, something your country is supposedly big on even if the exact opposite is true, andI am going nowhere unless and until I decide otherwise, so unless you want to be the latest in a long line (including some Brits who were also against the war but I exposed for quoting media articles verbatim) to lose the argument with me, then I suggest it is you who should go.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 08, 2004 03:23 PM (Er6Ab)

1047 "entitled to your opinion, however, if you support Bush and his illegal war, then in my opinion it is you who should be seeking help".

Again, YOUR opinions! Like I mentioned, anyone who is FOR the invasion of Iraq, whether illegal or NOT, is not the point! The point is, it is YOUR way or the HIGH way.

Someone on here mentioned a while back, that this blog is about Bigley's senseless murder. Somehow it got sidetracked, and now it's come to all these accusations, name callings and insults.

FACT: You are a nutcase. I am not insulting you, I am merely pointing out a fact. Anyone who continues to flame someone for their opinions, whether founded or not, is a "stupid, fucking bitch". And you dare to call others crass and ignorant for THEIR views?

I would NEVER stoop so low as to call anyone that. You think you are a man, but you are a despicable, disrespecting fool! You know nothing of Laura, or the others, you don't know how they live, you just generalize everyone according to their differing views.

Lacking in common sense when others have lost loved ones, or have loved ones right now fighting for the freedom of others, I can understand and empathize with them. You cannot. You see things in black and white. There is no gray. You are right, and everyone else is wrong, therefore, they are stupid and ignorant.

Whether or not your country had been involved is no longer debatable. Your kind just feeds on whining.

Keep on with the whining while the rest of us attends to the business at hand.

Have a nice life.

Posted by: vinnyBoy at November 08, 2004 03:52 PM (ptOpl)

1048 Wow, Coogie-poogie,

Seems the tables have turned and everyone is picking on YOU. hahahahahahahahha! Every dog has their day, and now it's YOUR turn.

I am a Bush supported and I'm glad he kicked Kerry's ASS. And we are now kicking some major ASS in Fallejah!

Keep the posts coming, Coogie poo. I'm enjoying seeing you get yours finally.

Posted by: JumpinJackFlash at November 08, 2004 03:57 PM (ptOpl)

1049 vinnyboy

You're just the latest in a long line of those who come on here who are full of hot air.

Nothing of substance to put forward whatsoever.

Hyprocrite

Posted by: C00garUK at November 08, 2004 04:05 PM (Er6Ab)

1050 vinnyboy

You're just the latest in a long line of those who come on here who are full of hot air.

Nothing of substance to put forward whatsoever.

Hypocrite

Posted by: C00garUK at November 08, 2004 04:06 PM (Er6Ab)

1051 jumpingjackflash

So I'm getting picked on. What's your point?

Whatever you may be thinking in that warped little mind of yours... I'm certainly not 'geeting mine'.

I've been on here a long time and I will still be on here a long time after you have gone.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 08, 2004 04:08 PM (Er6Ab)

1052 p.s. I wouldn't get too cocky about fallujah just yet either. You're about to lose an awful lot of men. And that's on top of the Brits that are being sacrificed for political purposes.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 08, 2004 04:15 PM (Er6Ab)

1053 Because you choose to remain here a long time does not make you better or the "winner". Others may come and go because we have more important things to do than spend our lives behind a computer monitor, trying to sound important and intelligent, because they don't have a life beyond the computer.

I sees it as I calls it. You're righ about one thing. I won't be on here a long time. But that doesn't mean I have given up, it means that I don't have a lot of time to waste on an idiot who is hell bent on being obnoxious and disrepectful to women.

Do you really believe anyone takes you seriously after posting "I put my thing up women"? Are you a 14 yr. old boy who dreams of doing just this? Is that necessary for a blog dedicated to one of your own, a Briton, who was murdered for nothing other than the fact that he lived in Iraq and worked there?

Does it make you feel important to insult people and constantly cram your beliefs and opinions down others' throats? Of course it does, or you wouldn't remain here.

(shaking head) Sad, sad litle bloke.

Posted by: VinnyBoy at November 08, 2004 04:26 PM (ptOpl)

1054 "Because you choose to remain here a long time does not make you better or the "winner"."

I didn't say it did. Your words, not mine.

"Do you really believe anyone takes you seriously after posting "I put my thing up women"?"

I was defending myself in response to someone accusing me of being gay (or a 'faggot' as they kindly put it - Am I the only one here capable of putting up with the insults?)

You may as well give it up vinny boy, cos you're on a hiding to nothing by supporting an illegal war and occupation for which there was not a single shred of evidence or justification.

Bye.

Next...

Posted by: C00garUK at November 08, 2004 06:05 PM (Er6Ab)

1055 "I am going nowhere until I decide otherwise"...what the fuck do you think that means? That is choosing to stay here! Boy, you're one for exact quotes aren't you?

And what is this "next" shit? If you think people are leaving because they have lost the argument, you are dead wrong, brother!

Knock yourself out, you haven't "won" anything, except my distaste of you and your treatment of other posters on this blog.

Posted by: Vinnyboy at November 08, 2004 07:25 PM (ptOpl)

1056 "Life is very short, and theres' no time for fussin' and fightin' my friend"

Hey, COOqarUK, why don't you listen to your fellow Britons singing the above song and learn something from it?

Or you can listen to this one, "Let It Be".

And finally, "I Don't Want To Spoil The Party so I'll go"..........

Posted by: peacenik at November 08, 2004 08:56 PM (ptOpl)

1057 Bye peacenik.

Next...

Posted by: C00garUK at November 09, 2004 12:25 AM (hHUFg)

1058 Seems all you're doing is chasing away your hecklers.

Wonder why?

Give Peace A Chance, COOqarUK, as you proclaim for the rest of the world. Why not start in here?

NEXT!!!!

Posted by: peacenik at November 09, 2004 07:04 AM (ptOpl)

1059 COOqarUK, Fuck you.

George W Bush has won re-election by receiving more of the popular votes than any other candidate in American history. Additionally, he won a majority of that vote, the first president to do so since his father won in 1988.
The chattering liberal elite may call Bush dumb, a cowboy, anti-intellectual, fundamentalist and any number of invective epithets, but the American people know better. He represents the best of America and the best of humanity. He is honest, sincere, capable, determined and a man of faith. In other words, we realised that he is exactly the sort of man we want to lead us.
By comparison, John Kerry is haughty, disingenuous, arrogant regarding his supposed intellectual abilities and would say anything to get elected. Plus, he pandered outrageously, playing up the fact that he had been an alter boy or that he had served in Vietnam. Even the people who voted for him did not like him.
Furthermore, the Bush victory shows that Americans understand this is a post-September 11 world. With firm and committed allies such as the Australians, we are determined to face the monumental challenges that face every person on this planet. Kerry and his supporters did not grasp this reality, and this is another reason why he lost.

Posted by: barry at November 09, 2004 07:24 AM (PM/BC)

1060 I am yet to meet someone who has in any way altered their lifestyle or shopping habits in response to the attacks in New York. Is it not time we stopped kidding ourselves that September 11, 2001, fundamentally altered the way we live every aspect of our lives? Surely this would have the double benefit of denying Osama bin Laden any satisfaction he derives from the attacks, while also showing that the British stiff upper lip still exists.

Posted by: david at November 09, 2004 07:31 AM (PM/BC)

1061 David, what are you talking about? I fly all the time, haven't you seen the long security checkin lines at the airports? Also, I know plenty of people who don't even fly anymore, they were so spooked by the 9/11 atrocities.

Our lives changed drastically, whether directly or indirectly. We look at every Mid East person at the airport, in a crowded place, wondering what that person is up to. Racial profiling, my ass. It wasn't a blue eyed, blond haired person who slammed the planes into those towers.

On the other hand, the close scrutiny and selective screening has gotten way way out of hand. The other day, I saw a little boy being frisked and a very old lady. Sad.

Posted by: Laura at November 09, 2004 09:08 AM (ptOpl)

1062 FUCK MUSLIMS..FUCK FALLUJA...FUCK BIN LADEN....FUCK COOQAR UK.

I KNOW ALL BRITS ARE NOT THE SAME, BUT SOMEONE OVER THERE NEEDS TO FUCK COOQARUK RIGHT UP HIS LIBERAL ASS.

Posted by: Liam at November 09, 2004 09:34 AM (PM/BC)

1063 YOu BASTARD Mother fuckers christians and jews U R GOING & KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE IN MILLIONS WHAT IS THAT !!! JUST 1 OF YOUR MAN IS KILLED U R SO DEPRESSED. U FUNKING BASTARDS TIME WILL SHOW YOU WHO WILL WIN!!!. AND U WILL ALSO SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES WHEN U DIE U UNBELIVERS!!!!!!

mother fuckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Posted by: FUCK YOU CHRISTIANS AND JEWS at November 09, 2004 09:49 AM (tPWGm)

1064 FUCKIN MUSLIM RETARD'S....ONCE YOUR DEAD YOUR DEAD...FUCKING ALLAH...MY ASS..YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL GO TO PARADISE IF YOU BECOME A MARTYRE...YOU NOT VERY BRIGHT MUSLIM FUCKS...YOU ARE BEING USED..DON'T YOU SEE?...MUSLIMS ARE EASY TO BRAIN WASH. IF YOU WERE TOLD TO PUT YOUR COCK THROUGH A MINCER, WOULD YOU? EASY INFLUENCED MUSLIM FUCKS. IF 'ET' CAME DOWN AND SHOWN ITSELF, YOUR FUCKIN BELIEFS ARE GONE, FUCKED OFF, WHAT THEN? FUCK ALLAH, WHATEVER THAT IS!

Posted by: Liam at November 09, 2004 10:08 AM (PM/BC)

1065 OUCH!!!

Posted by: Laura at November 09, 2004 11:12 AM (ptOpl)

1066 Liam, the poster's from Aussieland. Doesn't really matter where the terrorists are from though, does it?

All the same to me, if you're not for us, you're against us.

Posted by: Laura at November 09, 2004 11:26 AM (ptOpl)

1067 Kill all these muslims they are all the same.DEATH to you all.

Posted by: JayDee at November 09, 2004 01:22 PM (OB3Af)

1068 "In other words, we realised that he is exactly the sort of man we want to lead us."

Well, a little over half of you did, actually!

That said, I have already conceded that Bush won fair and square. Doesn't mean I have to agree with his illegal operations in Iraq though.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 09, 2004 01:43 PM (OFqx2)

1069 peacenik is a liar (figures).

Laura is a silly fucking sick bitch (as are all the 'nuke em' brigade).

Liam is a sick bastard.

FUCK YOU CHRISTIANS AND JEWS is a sick bastard.

JayDee is a sick bastard.

Australians? Now you really ARE scraping the bottom of the barrel!






Posted by: C00garUK at November 09, 2004 01:49 PM (OFqx2)

1070 Cooqar, hopefully this will be my last post to YOU, that is.

I've purposefully ignored your little sarcastic remarks and barbs for a while. You need help as the others have stated before me.

You continue with the insults, even though I haven't said ONE WORD to you personally. No one wants to hear you call a lady names, you have lost all respect from the people on this blog, not that you give a shit, but it seems the blog has turned against you.

I ask that you stop the name calling. It's getting really old and tiring.

If you have nothing else better to do than go around and curse me out, you truly are a sick individual. Do something constructive with your anger.

You contribute nothing when you constantly berate, put down, insult, etc. What purpose is it serving? We know what your position is about the war.

Did you hear about that poor man in Amsterdam that was killed because he made a movie about Islamic women? This tolerating country has nothing to do whatsoever with the Iraq occupation, yet these radical islamists are all over the place.

I support the war and its efforts. I'd rather die than not have my freedom. And it appears to me that with these islamists hitting everywhere, they just may be at your front door next.

Do you still want your country to sit back and do nothing?

Next...

Posted by: Laura at November 09, 2004 02:13 PM (ptOpl)

1071 Yeah man! Rusty's other blog just reported that an aide to Zarqawi has been killed in the fighting in Fallejah! We are getting closer to getting him.

How about leveling the city since most of the civilians are gone? I agree with Rusty on that one.

Posted by: Laur at November 09, 2004 02:20 PM (ptOpl)

1072 "Cooqar, hopefully this will be my last post to YOU, that is."

Promises, promises. I've lost count of how many times you've said that.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 09, 2004 02:40 PM (OFqx2)

1073 This whole blog, and all related ones, appear to have been conceived as pro-Bush, pro-illegal war propaganda.

So there is little surprise in the fact that anti-war, intelligent, honest people with a strong sense for justice are given a hard time.

Posted by: C00garUK at November 09, 2004 02:48 PM (OFqx2)

1074 "How about leveling the city since most of the civilians are gone?"

Hmmmm, how about evacuating YOUR city until there are just a few civilians left (hopefully you will be one of them) and then levelling that?

Seem fair, stupid fucking senseless cruel evil sick bitch?

OF COURSE NOT!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 09, 2004 02:50 PM (OFqx2)

1075 "I've lost count of how many times you've said that".

Fact is, you won't leave me alone, so I feel compelled to defend myself, lest you say, "next" or think you have "won" because I stopped posting.

And I've lost count of how many times you've called me names.

If I'm so stupid, as I've said before to you, why do you KEEP RESPONDING TO MY POSTS??????

Others may call it stalking. I might agree with them.

Next...

Posted by: Laura at November 09, 2004 03:06 PM (ptOpl)

1076 Oh dear, she did it again.

So I was right... AGAIN!

Posted by: C00garUK at November 09, 2004 03:15 PM (OFqx2)

1077 Mr. CooqarUK:

I would ask that you refrain from posting anti-Bush and anti-government comments. I have been monitoring several internet blogsites with the intent of searching for anti-American postings, obscene remarks, sexual content and the like.

I work with a government security agency that monitors internet sites for potential threats against our citizens or government.

Let this be a warning to you to abstain from future postings regarding anti-Bush comments. Since you are from another country, you are suspect for being held accountable for any and all comments made against America or its govt. agents.

Posted by: aware at November 09, 2004 03:16 PM (ptOpl)

1078 Hey, I just banned Coogar. Sorry dude, too many complaints about you.

Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at November 09, 2004 03:22 PM (JQjhA)

1079 Fine by me, m8!

Bit pointless though, eh don't you think?

The campaign continues, no matter how many 'complaints'

Posted by: stupidfuckingbitchhater at November 09, 2004 03:36 PM (DnHqX)

1080 No need to apologise, Rusty!

But I guess your time might be better spent by shutting down this blog, and any others plauged by posters who advocate revenge by nuking entire countries.

Thought your country had learned it's lesson in '45 but obviously not!

Posted by: stupidfuckingbitchhater at November 09, 2004 03:38 PM (DnHqX)

1081 As far as I am 'aware' (geddit? LOL) I live in a free country, as do you.

So I am entitled to my opinion, right?

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq. It was illegal. OK?

I don't see myself as a particular threat to his war machine, but there you go.

You'd do better to investigate some citizens of your own country, who I can promise you have demonstrated on here that they are as much of a threat to western civilisation - nay, the human race - as anyone.

btw, who is this Mr. CooqarUK

Posted by: stupidfuckingbitchhater at November 09, 2004 03:44 PM (DnHqX)

1082 Me thinks I smell a rat.....Cooqie's changed his name now to "stupidfuckinbitchhater"....I guess when one is defeated, they keep calling out those schoolyard names.

Posted by: Laura at November 09, 2004 03:53 PM (ptOpl)

1083 "I work with a government security agency that monitors internet sites for potential threats against our citizens or government."

I would have thought that the US economy is in enough of a mess without wasting dollars employing people such as you.

Anyhow, for the record I can assure you that I am no threat whatsoever to your Government or its agents. Nor mine, come to think of it.

I do not support terrorism, or the terrorists objectives, any more than I support Bush's illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Free speech, eh? Just what are your fellow-Americans going to make of the kind of threat that you posted earlier, I wonder?

Posted by: stillastupidfuckingbitchhater at November 09, 2004 03:56 PM (KSP+N)

1084 Laura, I guess you'd change your name too, if you were banned from posting under your existing one!

Do you think I should leave now, before your country declares war on a private individual citizen of one of her staunchest allies?

Posted by: ihateallstupidfuckingbitches at November 09, 2004 04:00 PM (Z1qu+)

1085 Defeated?

When was that then, Laura?

Have I missed something?

Posted by: ihateallstupidfuckingbitches at November 09, 2004 04:02 PM (Z1qu+)

1086 Let me just remind you this is MY personal website. All of you are guests here. This is not a free speech zone.

Posted by: Rusty at November 09, 2004 04:03 PM (JQjhA)

1087 Obviously not!

Posted by: ihateallstupidfuckingbitches at November 09, 2004 04:05 PM (Z1qu+)

1088 Quite a famous site now though, I guess.

What with a US Government agent posting on it.

Just wait till Whitehall learns what HE had to say...!

Posted by: ihateallstupidfuckingbitches at November 09, 2004 04:20 PM (Z1qu+)

1089 Some people just won't quit! The poor horse! Dead, and still being pummeled.

There's a reason why you were banned, Cooqar, you just don't get it do you? No one else on this particular blog, except for those spewing off comments about Islam, Allah, etc. have been banned.

Think about it, and grow up. Or continue talking to yourself.

Most of us have moved on to other blogs, where there seems to be some maturity and intelligence.

Carry on...next!

Posted by: Laura at November 09, 2004 05:12 PM (ptOpl)

1090 I see the bitch is back.

Posted by: stillastupidfuckingbitchhater at November 09, 2004 05:22 PM (Z1qu+)

1091 And so am I, asshole! You continue to make a blithering fool out of yourself, don't you?

You were fucking BANNED from this site for a REASON, buddy boy....you now resort to attacks of your own....or is that an invasion? Illegally, too, I might add.

I may not post here frequently, but I see you haven't given up your ludicrous banterings and name calling. You even added it as your name!

Congratulations on one point, you are by far, the most consistently obnoxious, rudest, craziest motherfucker I've EVER seen on a public forum! You take the cake, ole chap.

Laura, my hat goes off to you. I've never seen such a tough broad as you to take this jerk's constant slandering of you! If you weren't already married, I'd make a proposal!

Hopefully the webmaster will be able to put you off permanently, no matter what name you go by...why don't you try, ASSHOLE? More fitting.

Later.

Posted by: Vinnyboy at November 09, 2004 05:34 PM (ptOpl)

1092 Wow, boy do some of you guys need a vacation from the computer
Seems things have gotten a bit wilder for the coog since Bush won the election. Have you gotten off your medicine coog?? just kidding, don't waste your time I already know I am a s##$$..f#@$#.. b$%$#,,,
(sweet, fun, beauty),he he heh
I know how it is to be misunderstood coog, we know your point of view, a lot feel the same as you do. No one wants the innocents killed, that would be changed if at all possible,
Laura, like you has her own ideas, just different, and it is really ok to be different, that is what the blog is for, this is not a game to be won..it is a place to vent and express to others your feelings of what happened and is happening, I have done my share of venting and my share of apoligizing.....

anyway, I have been watching the fallujah ordeal, I sure hope we get Al-Z.... Did you see the family on the news today there talking to the soldiers, they were happy they were there getting the terrorist even while having to live with all that fear of the battle, just goes to show you how used to fear they really are, they have lived with it for years, decades............

Going to check out some other blogs on here...

Posted by: madarmywife at November 09, 2004 10:14 PM (+biXY)

1093 I see Allawi's two relatives got kidnapped! One is a 75 yr. old first cousin and supposedly, his closest confidante. They will be killed unless Allawi frees prisoners.

Wonder what he'll do?!

Posted by: Laura at November 10, 2004 08:02 AM (ptOpl)

1094 Before we get carried away about the death of liberalism in the US, it's worth remembering that this country(UK) voted three times for Mrs Thatcher. How illiberal was that?

Posted by: jane at November 10, 2004 09:34 AM (PM/BC)

1095 Hey COOqarUK, Peel dead, Bush triumphant, Hoon commemorates Light Brigade with re-enactment in Falluja...What a welcome picture of Cassini approaching Titan: a pristine world unsulled by suffering or folly.

Posted by: Nigel at November 10, 2004 09:39 AM (PM/BC)

1096 BUSH'S DEBT.

It is to be hoped that when Tony Blair arrives at the White House later in the week he will emphasise the debt that George Bush personally owes the British people. So far the media comment on the visit has been strangely silent on Guantanamo Bay. Some will remember the prime minister's visit to Washington during the summer of 2003 and the president's promise to ensure fair trial for the British and other Europeans incarcerated there.
This promise has yet to be fulfilled. The four Britons and seven other European citizens remain in limbo after three years of incarceration. It would be a minimal gesture to announce arragements for their release, and it might even persuade some of us that the alliance is not completely one sided.

Posted by: Will at November 10, 2004 09:50 AM (PM/BC)

1097 It is already possible to glimpse the future through the smoke of the Falluja battle: the military operation was formally authorised by Mr Allawi, while a deliberate effort is being made to play up the role of Iraqi troops - prompting wry reflections on the speed with which the Saddam-era army was disbanded by the occupation authorities last year. It is also alarming to consider that the government is using emergency powers, like so many other Arab regimes, that would have been normal in the bad old Ba'athist days. It is important to remember that most of what we will know about the fighting will come from journalists embedded with the US forces, while we will inevitably hear less about what it feels like to be on the receiving end of their vastly superior firepower. There were reports last night that referred to victims being buried in graves in Falluja's municipal soccer stadium, in a grim echo of the siege of Sarajevo. The most we can probably hope for is that this Iraqi battle will be fought with care, restaint and speed. But there are precious few grounds for optimism that it will.

Posted by: Adam at November 10, 2004 10:05 AM (PM/BC)

1098 Laura, you mentioned you have visited other thoughtful, intelligent blog sites. Could you post a link? As I myself am getting pretty tired of the waffling coming from COOqarUK.

Posted by: kev at November 10, 2004 11:05 AM (PM/BC)

1099 Just for you, Vinny BOY

Posted by: ASSHOLE at November 10, 2004 01:43 PM (L7cw2)

1100 madarmywife

You are NOT s##$$..f#@$#.. b$%$#,,,

Laura is.

Posted by: ASSHOLE at November 10, 2004 01:46 PM (L7cw2)

1101 She's probably fucking stupid enough to do just that!

Posted by: ASSHOLE at November 10, 2004 01:52 PM (L7cw2)

1102 Aware

The cruise missile missed. Could you let me know when you're about to try again, so I can evacuate the neighbours. Ta.

Posted by: ASSHOLE at November 10, 2004 01:54 PM (L7cw2)

1103 Kev:

The other blogs are right here, just kinda surf around the whole "Jawa Report"....there are news sections that Rusty puts up and then a comments section right after it, just like this one.

The only difference is that Cooqar seems to frequent this one. Hopefully, he'll keep it that way.

Caution: The others can get pretty heated up as well, but it's not the back and forth schoolyard antics that are in here.

Too bad the actions of just one is enough to turn away so many.

Posted by: Laura at November 10, 2004 02:09 PM (ptOpl)

1104 Yes, I agree. The stupid fucking bitch should quit her schoolyard antics, and leave.

Amazing how she seems to have suddenly calmed down, eh? Must be that feeling of defeat that did it.

Posted by: ASSHOLE at November 10, 2004 02:16 PM (L7cw2)

1105 What's amazing is that you STILL continue to bother someone who's obviously trying to avoid you, Cooqar!

She's not admitted to anything, she's just tired of your bickering, and it's obvious now that you are intently taunting her.

Let it rest, will ya? Rusty's already banned yer ass, yet you continue rambling on here with foolish sign on names.

You have lost all credibility and respect, even though I may have agreed with some of your posts.

This is getting silly now, to say the least. I, too, will look at the other blogs. This has turned into nothing more than an elementary school fight.

Defeat? Hardly. No one wants to continue arguing with an asshole.

Posted by: Vinnyboy at November 10, 2004 03:05 PM (ptOpl)

1106 Fuck off then, and rejoin the rest of your war-mongering cronies.

Posted by: ASSHOLE at November 10, 2004 04:17 PM (L7cw2)

1107 Un-fucking-believable. Just stumbled onto this blog, sat here and read the whole thing. Definate US vs. UK thing going here. Can't fuckin' believe this Coogar fellow. He mentions a couple of scrolls upwards that he doesn't have to resort to cursing and name calling, etc., yet he has sunk so low I doubt he can come up for air.

I don't like the war anymore than anyone else does. I did not vote. I did not like Kerry and I knew Bush would win. I don't know what the answer is to terrorism. I only know that we are there now, we cannot pull out the troops now. Right or wrong, we must stick it out.

Catching the ringleaders such as Saddam, Osama, Zarqawi, etc. won't be a dent in their operations. These sadistic fuckers have cells all over the Mid East and some of them are in training right here in the good ole USoFA. They may even be Americans working for the Al Qaeda.

So, what do we do? How will it all end? Nuke every damned country until no one is left? What? This ain't Pearl Harbor, this ain't Nam, it's a whole nother animal.

You guys are all in here, against each other. There is more hate on this fuckin' blog than in Baghdad.

Whether you like it or not, America, and the UK, you are both over there now. No sense startin' a war of your own in here.

You want peace? Try a little in here.

Posted by: bandofbrothers at November 10, 2004 07:42 PM (ptOpl)

1108 Dang, why don't yall give the coog a break, he does have some good points and he said he is not anti-american although he might darn well be now....I see everyone that is a regular cussing on here.......hang in there coog,

Where the heck did all those insurgents hide, damn.........like we didn't give em enough time too,,,kinda the same as before we went to Iraq.....hide what you can and who you can, you only have 3 months to do so.....

Hang in there Coalition, God be with the innocent

Posted by: your old friend at November 10, 2004 10:19 PM (EUZ5X)

1109 Hello fellow bloggers, just wanted to check out whats happening, been glued to the