Brit Hume: The Tea Party Forced a Major Fight on the Budget and ObamaCare Precisely Because The Establishment Didn't

Can't argue with any of this.

As you know, I go back and forth between siding with the Tea Party and the Establishment. Ask me three times in a week, and you might get three different answers.

But while I do think the Tea Party is sometimes wrongheaded in its theory of negotiation -- that staking out the most maximalist position leads, more or less inevitably, to a better political resolution for the side staking it out -- I do fault the Establishment for not re-calibrating its politics and realizing, The base is serious about these things.

I do get tired of establishment-leaning analysts and amateur pundits telling me that I don't understand the easiest pathway to electoral success. Of course I understand the easiest pathway to electoral success -- it's dead simple.

The easiest pathway to electoral success, for someone on the right, is to stake out a position that is 1% more to the right of one's Democratic opponent. (The easiest pathway to electoral success for someone on the left is to stake out a position 1% more to the left than one's political opponent.) This gives one the maximum number of potential voters.

But potential voters are not necessarily actual voters, not if a politics seems uninspiring or pointless.

I do know the easiest pathway to electoral success -- but I, and many other people, have decided, for various reasons, that the easiest pathway is no longer acceptable, because it yields so few rewards at the governance phase.

The Democrat Party is far more responsive to constituent will. For example, when the Democrat electorate became radicalized and very, very left-leaning after the disputed election of 2000 (and then even more after 9/11 and the GOP victory of 2002), the Democrat Party quickly began adapting itself to the New Political Reality that their base was much more extreme and unwilling to compromise than it had been.

The media seems not to have noticed this, but the Democrat Party had its own Purge of the Center by the Wing -- How about Joe Lieberman? Yeah, he got primaried out, didn't he?

The primary-challenge-from-the-wing is supposedly a tool of extremists... except when the media's own party, the Democrat Party, utilizes it. Then it's just People Powered Politics (TM).

But while the Democrat Party did resist this radicalization, in the end it did become the Progressive Party, and it only took them 2-3 years to adapt themselves to this way of thinking.

Anyone hear anything from the centrist-talking Democrat Leadership Council anymore? No, you don't. The Democrats purged most of its centrists, chiefly by staking out positions so far to the Left (such as voting for the monstrosity of ObamaCare) that all of its representatives from purple districts were kicked out of office in 2010.

The Republican Establishment is, as one might guess, conservative by temperament. It resists change, moreso than the the Democrat Establishment (which almost seemed eager to confess they were fully Men and Women of the Unreconstructed Left; they just needed an excuse to say so).

The only way this marriage can be saved -- if it can be at all -- is for the Establishment to stop fighting the Tea Party on everything, and instead begin plotting politically-savvy ways to forward the Tea Party's way of thinking.

Simply calling them "wacko birds" is not going to do it, Guys.

The Tea Party tends to talk in maximalist and uncompromising terms. I do not think most Tea Partiers are actually completely maximalist and uncompromising; I believe many talk this way to increase their negotiating position vis-a-vis the establishment.

So I think it's possible that there can be some kind of compromise reached here.

But that will require that the Establishment do some compromising of its own. And that will in turn require taking the Tea Party seriously, and not simply sneering at 20% of the population as "extreme" and "fringe" and "crazy" and "wacko bird" and "Hobbits."

I think the Establishment knows more about politicking than the Tea Party. But they don't know more about core beliefs than the Tea Party. Everyone is an absolute expert in his own core beliefs, after all.

So, if this marriage is to be saved, the Establishment must begin using its political savvy -- if it has such -- to advance important political goals favored by the base.

The base understands kabuki. They are not, as the Washington Post once slurred conservative voters, "poor, uneducated, and easily led."

The Establishment may wish they were these things but they're not.

They may not be experts on politicking and messaging, but they think they're experts on What America Is and Must Be, and I'm inclined to to agree with them on that, to a large extent.

The GOP already has two huge opponents -- the Democrat Party and the Democrat Media. It cannot add a third opponent to that list.

Political realities change, and so do political goals. The Tea Party has had it to the back of their teeth with small-government rhetoric. They do not want more small government rhetoric. They want smaller government.

And they would also like respect. Despite the Washington Post's slur, I would like to point out that Tea Partiers are in fact wealthier and better-educated than the average American. It's also quite clear that they are not-so-easily led at all.

They may be willing to be led, but they want to influence their leadership in turn.

Which is the way it used to be, all those years ago, in the years after America won its democratic republic in the Revolutionary War.

Yes, it's easier for the political class if they can just call all the shots and not bother explaining themselves to mere Citizens.

And we did that for a long time. After Americans became jaded about democracy, people began tuning out of the process -- not even bothering to vote, nevermind going to a Town Hall to engage in public discourse on American policy -- and left politics, chiefly, to the politicians, for oh, about 100 years.

But that's not the reality anymore. Don't fight the new reality; embrace it. This is going to be a more participatory process whether elected officials want it to be or not. That participation will either take place before elections, in a friendly manner, or it will take place during primary season or even general election season, in a hostile manner.

Posted by: Ace at 02:43 PM



Comments

1 The easiest path to political victory is to do what I would do!

Posted by: Most People Damn Near Everywhere at October 16, 2013 02:44 PM (OWjjx)

2 And to be ffffooooiiiiisssssttttt!

Posted by: Most People Damn Near Everywhere at October 16, 2013 02:45 PM (OWjjx)

3 Anybody want to hear what I have to say?

Posted by: Rep. Peter King at October 16, 2013 02:45 PM (l3vZN)

4 Brit Hume is a smart man.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 16, 2013 02:46 PM (ZPrif)

5 Yes, Peter, please tell us more!

Posted by: Countrysquire at October 16, 2013 02:47 PM (LSJmV)

6 Ace, your post has way too many words.

Better better to just type

Crus RINO $@%#%$ fuckin' Reid TEA PRTY bastards, welfare queens Nobama !%#$$%#$%.

Probably get more traffic that way too.

Posted by: zombie at October 16, 2013 02:47 PM (+cx5n)

7 You wacko-birds defy the charismatic leadership of McCain and Graham at your own peril!

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 16, 2013 02:47 PM (+lsX1)

8
Shut Uuuuuup! God!
/Napolean Dynamite voice

Posted by: Bigby's Fist o' Trouble at October 16, 2013 02:47 PM (3ZtZW)

9 Dammit -I can't even find how much [in dollars] they raised the debt limit? Are they keeping it to themselves? Or did they just approve a bill that "raises the debt limit by an unknown amountuntil such and such a date"? If so, can I get my credit card company to do that for me too?

Posted by: AJ Lynch at October 16, 2013 02:49 PM (ASPsd)

10 But that will require that the Establishment do some compromising of its own. And that will in turn require taking the Tea Party seriously, and not simply sneering at 20% of the population as "extreme" and "fringe" and "crazy" and "wacko bird" and "Hobbits."

I agree. Look, no one is ever going to get John McCain to STFU. But everyone else can just chill it with the wacko talk.

It would also help if Tea Party members would stop, everytime someone says something they don't agree with, claiming they were "done" with the GOP and wishing it dead.

Its a 2 way street for both sides. Better learn to live together cause the Democrats sure are willing to learn to live without either.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at October 16, 2013 02:49 PM (OWjjx)

11 Can the GOP please act like an opposition party?
Would it be too much to ask that they stand astride history and yell "Stop!"?

Because I know how this story ends.
And I'm going to be elsewhere rather than ride this bomb like some erstwhile Slim Pickens.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at October 16, 2013 02:49 PM (JSmUP)

12 "poor, uneducated, and easily led."

1%ers

Posted by: eleven at October 16, 2013 02:49 PM (KXm42)

13 How did the Democrats win and impose horrible things that people don't like?

Easy: They make their campaign about some simple thing they can rally people around and denounce the GOP as being radically opposed to that. Then the Dems win and implement steps towards what the people don't like, while distracting them with those few simple things that they can demonize Republicans over.

That is how we got gay marriage, despite the people at large never being the forefront for that change.

Posted by: The Political Hat at October 16, 2013 02:50 PM (XvHmy)

14 It would also help if Tea Party members would stop, everytime someone says something they don't agree with, claiming they were "done" with the GOP and wishing it dead.

When the GOP starts acting like it cares about me and actually wants to work with me, I'll stop digging its grave.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at October 16, 2013 02:50 PM (naUcP)

15 The Tea party realizes correctly that the difference between what a John McCain would vote on, and generic AZ Dem would vote on are about the same 90% of the time.

What the Tea Party doesn't realize is that 10% is pretty damn important. But, before I forget, fuck McCain.

Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 02:50 PM (t06LC)

16 I'm gonna go look at porn.

Laters..

Posted by: eleven at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (KXm42)

17 I agree. Look, no one is ever going to get John McCain to STFU. But everyone else can just chill it with the wacko talk.

The problem with McCain is that (for some bizarre reason) he attracts followers to him.

I think he's genuinely mentally ill.

He must have a MASSIVE fundraising apparatus.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (T0NGe)

18 How do you get free prescriptions and corn in your gas with a small government? Come on wacko-birds, think about it.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (+lsX1)

19 The REAL takeaway from all this?

The Occupy movement is utterly forgotten, politically insignificant, a joke in the rear-view mirror, meaningless, pathetic.

Whereas the much maligned Tea Party STILL, after FOUR YEARS, completely dominates the headlines and dominates national (and to se extent international) politics.

The TP remain playahs. Occupy is in its grave already.

We may "lose" battles, but you know what: We choose those battles. And we're still in the fight.

Posted by: zombie at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (+cx5n)

20 I'm gonna go look at porn.

Laters..


Posted by: eleven at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (KXm42)

there is porn in 4K now

Posted by: The Dude at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (vJdyz)

21 Ah, yeah, the guy proudly "digging the grave" of the Republicans is angry the Republicans don't listen to him. Genius.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (ZPrif)

22 4 Brit Hume is a smart man.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 16, 2013 02:46 PM (ZPrif)


One of the better "journalists." There are a few whom I respect.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 02:52 PM (bb5+k)

23 So, if this marriage is to be saved, the Establishment must begin using
its political savvy -- if it has such -- to advance important political
goals favored by the base.
..........
A little difficult when you have one-half of one-third of the power in Washington.

I have no problem with Tea Party goals and ideology. I want a smaller, less obtrusive government.

However much I want that, though, it cannot be obtained without at least both houses of Congress and perhaps the Presidency as well. This whole thing was an exercise in futility. I am not saying "give up". What I am saying is get smarter.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 02:52 PM (f9c2L)

24 If the establishment is so marvelous at politicking, why haven't they produced anything in the way of results, and why can't they win elections?

Almost every political gain they have made has been the result of being forced, kicking and screaming, by the Tea Party. The fact they hold the House is largely due to, you guessed it, the Tea Party.

They do need to change and take the Tea Party more seriously, as you say, or they will quickly find themselves out of jobs. Whatever people's opinions of the "Tea Party" as a group, when polled about Tea Party ideas without naming them as such, they are on board with many of them. It's only thanks to the eagerness of the Republicans to go along with Democratic characterizations of the Tea Party that has allowed these smears to continue. It's all about a bunch of politicians who care significantly more about their own privilege than anything their constituents have to say.

I'm calling it right now frankly, that there will be limp turnout for these guys in 2014, and we'll find ourselves with Democrats in charge of Congress. Basically because the Republicans are insulting their own base on a daily basis and show no signs of letting up.

Posted by: Brian at October 16, 2013 02:52 PM (pKkx4)

25 The establishment not only ignore us, they hate us. As long as that's true, the Pugs will lose. We can talk about tactics but we can't abandon our principles for an illusory victory.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 02:52 PM (7TrJT)

26 The problem with McCain is that (for some bizarre reason) he attracts followers to him.

Eh. Not sure about that. Lindsey Graham, for reasons I have never understood, has attached himself to the hip of McCain. Flake, because he is from Arizona, thinks there is some tactical reason to be nice to McCain. And the media loves McCain when he isn't running for President because he will say bad things about other Republicans. Other than that, I am about out of McCain followers.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (OWjjx)

27 I seem to be in the same camp as Ace, somewhere in between the Establishment and Tea Party. Both sides have their retards and both sides are killing the country.

My problem with the Tea party position is I've yet to see a victory from these quixotic quests for purity. I also don't believe they have our best interests at heart, it's just another form of cowardice and gamesmanship, just in a different arena.

To stake out a position you know is going to fail and letting the House pass Reid's bill in order to go home and say "Yea, but I voted against it" is only empowering the Left.

I'm not interested in electing people who just want to take their ball and go home every time and think that's some sort of victory.



Posted by: McAdams at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (rWsoZ)

28 "I do not think most Tea Partiers are actually completely maximalist
and uncompromising; I believe many talk this way to increase their
negotiating position vis-a-vis the establishment."

That's more or less right. Many of the Tea Partiers are also very tired of the pre-emptive surrenders. That's what drives me, anyway. Surely, we can do better than we've been doing?

Posted by: Dianna at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (DV/Ik)

29

Establishment implies stubbornness.

Their roots are way too deep, and tentacles too many and too long. It's not them calling the shots anymore.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: up to my elbows in shoes at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (IXrOn)

30 Eh. The Tea Party is pissing into the ocean to raise the water level. The people have stopped listening. I know I have criticized the Let It Burn philosophy in the past but sometimes you've got to let an addict touch bottom before they can go straight.

Posted by: joncelli at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (RD7QR)

31 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party? This is my biggest concern with leaving the GOP, no alternative party with a catchy name. Tea Party and Conservative Party carry too much baggage. Libertarian Party is already dominated by the chem-trails crowd. Constitution Party might work, but is a little dry. Anyone got any ideas here?

Posted by: mugiwara at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (3cxnA)

32 As you said, Ace, the problem is that the theory that you can win by seeking Mr. 51% is that it completely ignores turnout and the fact that multiple issues are at play.


For example, if 70% if the country is pro-choice, then under the Repub strategy, it is better to be pro-choice. But if 80% of the pro-life group factor that papist ion heavily into their vote, and only 20% of the pro-choice crowd does, then the smarter position politically is pro-life.

Put simply, it isn't agreeing with voters, it's agreeing with what animates voters.

Posted by: Boone at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (3p8HS)

33 over/under in how fast amnesty is passed?

Posted by: The Dude at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (vJdyz)

34 The GOP has dug its own grave. Burn, baby, burn!

Posted by: ZEK 1317 at October 16, 2013 02:54 PM (ChpRS)

35 I guess it's difficult to negotiate with the guy who kidnaps your children and threatens to kill them, especially when the news media insists it's all your fault.

Posted by: mallfly at October 16, 2013 02:54 PM (bJm7W)

36
Speaking of "primaried out" - every time that John Cornyn's cronies (or the Senate Republican Fund, for that matter) calls the TiFW house begging for a donation, I just remind them that Lisa Murkowski is still in the Senate, thanks to all of the "Conservatives" who were sitting in the Senate at the time.

Whether lifetime politicians like it or not, if the people vote an incumbent out in a primary, YOU RESPECT THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE.

And, yes, unless given a better alternative, I'll be casting my vote for Cornyn in the next Texas Senatorial election.

But he'd better watch his back - David Dewhurst is still sitting in Texas and Ted Cruz is in D.C. FOR A REASON.....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at October 16, 2013 02:54 PM (PZ6/M)

37 Yes, Ace, could not agree more. Those of us who are Conservative and tend to sympathize with the Tea Party are quite tired of being told to sit down and shut up already while simultaneously being extorted for money and exhorted to vote for Establishment Squishy Bobby Jo because its his/her turn.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at October 16, 2013 02:54 PM (kXoT0)

38 The ilk is holding this country hostage! The ilk must be destroyed!

Posted by: Charlie Rangel at October 16, 2013 02:54 PM (P7ej2)

39 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party? This is my biggest concern with leaving the GOP, no alternative party with a catchy name. Tea Party and Conservative Party carry too much baggage. Libertarian Party is already dominated by the chem-trails crowd. Constitution Party might work, but is a little dry. Anyone got any ideas here?

Posted by: mugiwara at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (3cxnA)


"The LOL-Cat Party" might work with the LIVs

Posted by: The Political Hat at October 16, 2013 02:55 PM (XvHmy)

40 Got ilk?

Posted by: zombie at October 16, 2013 02:55 PM (+cx5n)

41 The base is smart enough to know that the US government WILL run out of money in our lifetimes; we would rather it happen 1) while we're still young enough to kill our own food and 2) before the government disarms us.

THAT is what the "establishment" fails to understand about the "base."

Posted by: Oschisms at October 16, 2013 02:56 PM (JE0RF)

42 <i>However much I want that, though, it cannot be obtained without at least both houses of Congress and perhaps the Presidency as well. This whole thing was an exercise in futility. I am not saying "give up". What I am saying is get smarter.</i>
However, the prescription of the Establicans is to continue to lose, a la McLame.
The Tea Party people are fed up, and who can blame them?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 16, 2013 02:56 PM (ujg0T)

43 Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 02:50 PM (t06LC)

Jolly Roger, do you want a brownie? It contains 5% cat poop, but 95% if it is delicious brownie!

Posted by: Boone at October 16, 2013 02:57 PM (3p8HS)

44 Thanks for this post, Ace. You give me more hope than I've had for weeks. Nothing else to add but my gratitude.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at October 16, 2013 02:57 PM (/cq36)

45
Well said, ace.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 02:57 PM (TpXEI)

46 LOL zombie!
This is why I love coming here.
Come for the nickelfucking, stay for the ilk.

Posted by: SMFH at it all at October 16, 2013 02:57 PM (P7ej2)

47 "I do fault the Establishment for not re-calibrating its politics and realizing, The base is serious about these things."

Ace, I'm not sure that they want to recalibrate if it means keeping the Tea Party in the fold.

My guess is that the inside-the-beltway Republican establishment is assuming that they can create enough Republican voters out of the looming 30,000,000 Amnesty voters coming on line to remain a viable party.

Not the party in power, but powerful enough to maintain the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 16, 2013 02:57 PM (/kU/5)

48 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?

---

The Free Blowjob Party.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM (7TrJT)

49 "That participation will either take place before elections, in a friendly manner, or it will take place during primary season or even general election season, in a hostile manner."

+ace, if hostility cools off, reconsider your definition of "new reality". If hostile participation from the citizenry caves between election cycles, as politicians anticipate the pattern continuing, then "participation" means nothing more than the same old repetitiously predictable "unaccountability" pattern of corruption and abuses from those in office, those in government. Once elected, politicians are Lucy with our tax fund football.

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM (MhA4j)

50 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?

Posted by: mugiwara
..........
Yeah "Losers"

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM (f9c2L)

51 The Tea Party
has had it to the back of their teeth with small-government rhetoric.
They do not want more small government rhetoric. They want smaller
government.



Amen.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM (8ZskC)

52 It would also help if Tea Party members would stop, everytime someone says something they don't agree with, claiming they were "done" with the GOP and wishing it dead.

Actually, organizations and blocs within the Tea Party absolutely should be done with the GOP. They should vote for whoever votes with them, on a small number of issues. In the Tea Party case, most likely issues of fiscal sanity. That’s how the NRA has been successful. Now, like the NRA, most of the time this is going to mean voting Republican—but because they are technically swing voters they will pull Democrats toward fiscal sanity as well, or at least not vocally oppose it.

Over time, of course, just as with the NRA.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM (QF8uk)

53
>>>Whereas the much maligned Tea Party STILL, after FOUR YEARS, completely dominates the headlines and dominates national (and to se extent international) politics.

"The Tea Party are already gone. They were astroturf and they didn't affect the elections in any significant way, so they failed and now they're gone."
- A not-Libtarded but Dem friend of mine shortly after the 2010 elections

Posted by: Bigby's Fist o' Trouble at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (3ZtZW)

54 The GOP need to stop thinking about this short term failure and focus onfukkingup the glorious longtermopportunity that Obamacare and the Park Service just handed them.

Posted by: dirks strewn at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (kfcYC)

55 It's not the "base". The Cruz faction only has minority support within the Republicans caucus.
The Cruz faction in the house only has 30-50 members. So that's only 20% of Repubs, and 10% of the country.

It's a vocal minority of the Republican coalition, but it's just one minority faction.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (ZPrif)

56 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?


Is Golden Dawn taken?

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (l3vZN)

57 Fuckin-A right.

Posted by: Troll Feeder at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (KMHNJ)

58
over/under in how fast amnesty is passed?


Ah. Another hill not to die on. At this rate, the GOP will live forever.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (8ZskC)

59 How are we supposed to read everyone's emails and facebook postings with a small government? You wacko-birds crack me up.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (+lsX1)

60
31 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party? This is my biggest concern with leaving the GOP, no alternative party with a catchy name. Tea Party and Conservative Party carry too much baggage. Libertarian Party is already dominated by the chem-trails crowd. Constitution Party might work, but is a little dry. Anyone got any ideas here?
Blumpkin Party? Blow me and I'll snap a log.

Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (oDCMR)

61 Hear is my genius idea for the Republicans. Campaign hard against ObamaCare. And to show how serious they are should recruit Sebelius to lead the charge. Last time they went with the guy to invented Obamacare ver1. This time they should go with lady that implemented the real deal. That is how Republicans rally the base. Booyah!

Posted by: Shtetl G at October 16, 2013 03:00 PM (dlzlR)

62 I am already at the point where I absolutely despise the Democrats, and I feel basically the same way about the Republicans, and I am a registered Republican.

Posted by: Harry at October 16, 2013 03:00 PM (ib4tw)

63 I am maximalist and uncompromising for two reasons - my two kids. I would like to see my kids be able to grow up, prosper and enjoy a good life - much as their mother and I have done.

With 125 Trillion in unfunded liabilities, a prosperous future for my kids simply isn't possible. Things are going to have to get a whole lot worse before there's a chance for things to get better. Let's have the pain now.

SMOD 2014

Posted by: Not an Artist at October 16, 2013 03:00 PM (uRumV)

64 How about the Block Party? Smaller government and drunken revelry, all at once!

Posted by: Piercello at October 16, 2013 03:01 PM (P4dpU)

65 The Tea Party people are fed up, and who can blame them?

Oh! Oh! I know the answer to this!

Hollowpoint and Jeff B!

Posted by: GMan at October 16, 2013 03:01 PM (sxq57)

66 The way it is supposed to work is that I support a party and in return my concerns are addressed. I should support a party for my own benefit. That has not been true of the Pigs for a decade or more.

So I ask, "What's in it for me?"

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:01 PM (7TrJT)

67 I retain my voting registration as Republican because Oklahoma never really fields an Independent candidate. I want to vote in the primaries as well as the general elections. I would never register as a Democrat.

But, my time, my money, and vote just might go to a viable third party candidate who is a Conservative.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at October 16, 2013 03:01 PM (kXoT0)

68
In short, the gop should remember why they control the house.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 16, 2013 03:02 PM (N8z9m)

69 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?

"Constitution Party" is already taken. It's sadly par for the course for conservative third-parties so far.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at October 16, 2013 03:02 PM (naUcP)

70 The Whig Party mk II - electric boogaloo.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:02 PM (TpXEI)

71 In Workers' Paradise there is no need of an opposition party. We are all one, and we are glorious.

Posted by: ZEK 1317 at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (ChpRS)

72 So I ask, "What's in it for me?"

I like the cut of your jib and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Posted by: Harry Reid at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (OWjjx)

73 How about The Government is Too Damn Big Party?

Posted by: steevy at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (9XBK2)

74 Why do I get the feeling that the establishment types want to drum me out of the party and replace me with an illegal?

Posted by: Drider at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (/VmYa)

75 The Wild Party. Cuz we're like, wild and stuff.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (8ZskC)

76 One might think that Hume would have to give up his Establishment membership card with that first statement...

Posted by: RushBabe at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (hrIP5)

77
>>>Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?

THE RENT IS TOO DAMNED HIGH PARTY

Posted by: Bigby's Fist o' Trouble at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (3ZtZW)

78 Sorry, auto_correct changed Pugs to Pigs. I didn't mean to sink that low.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (7TrJT)

79 Ace, the tea party isn't an "it" it's "we."

think about that.

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (x3YFz)

80 If the tea party staked out a "small position" they would still be attacked until the democrats get what they want. The size of the "position" does not matter, the fact that rino's will cave is all that the democrats need to know.

Posted by: Reality Man at October 16, 2013 03:04 PM (obXkJ)

81 About about the FOAD (Fack Off And Die) Party. Our mascot could be a Toad.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at October 16, 2013 03:04 PM (kXoT0)

82 I do fault the Establishment for not re-calibrating its politics and realizing, The base is serious about these things.


Yeah. That's the tl;dr version of my blatherings down below.

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 03:04 PM (VtjlW)

83 Lol, I like the Free Blowjob Party. Reminds me of PCU. "Tonight at The Pit: Everyone Gets Laid"

Posted by: mugiwara at October 16, 2013 03:04 PM (3cxnA)

84 What I really despise is when GOP politicians (and here the big violator is McCain) bash other GOP politicians directly, especially by name.

Nobody is too good for partisanship. Nobody.

Posted by: AmishDude at October 16, 2013 03:05 PM (T0NGe)

85 My guess is that the inside-the-beltway Republican establishment is assuming that they can create enough Republican voters out of the looming 30,000,000 Amnesty voters coming on line to remain a viable party.

Not the party in power, but powerful enough to maintain the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.




These RINO *idiots* still believe in Hispandering, in the face of all empirical evidence? Then we truly are doomed.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 16, 2013 03:05 PM (ujg0T)

86 The only way this marriage can be saved -- if it can be at all -- is for the Establishment to stop fighting the Tea Party on everything, and instead begin plotting politically-savvy ways to forward the Tea Party's way of thinking.



Already had two "real life" divorces.
Shit isn't so scary anymore.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 16, 2013 03:05 PM (p9JxP)

87 Look if you want to simultaneously conduct drone operations over Sudan, rope off Old Faithful and subsidize Amtrak, you better have a big fucking government. That's all I'm saying. Be careful what you wish for wacko-birds.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 16, 2013 03:05 PM (+lsX1)

88
If the tea party staked out a "small position" they would still be attacked until the democrats get what they want. The size of the "position" does not matter, the fact that rino's will cave is all that the democrats need to know.

Go back a few weeks ago on this blog and look at how the GOP position was a one-year delay.

That position is radioactive to the GOP now as being the province of wacko birds and hobbits.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:05 PM (TpXEI)

89 Free Blowjob Party could be done,as long as you aren't picky as to who or what blows you.

Posted by: steevy at October 16, 2013 03:06 PM (9XBK2)

90 I have been talking to young African-American males and females about "why we fight."

They can be reached and MANY of them know there is a long con being ran on them.

If the GOP wants to force a return to American greatness to be a long hard march we could do worse than explain things to "low info voter" in terms of "control and hurting the economy by controlling too much business."

They resent the fuck out of white liberals they just hate us more.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:06 PM (9jfyN)

91 In short, the gop should remember why they control the house.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk


To win elections?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 16, 2013 03:06 PM (j149p)

92 86 rickb223 at October 16, 2013 03:05 PM (p9JxP)

being betrayed by the GOP changes nothing only the distance and time from here to there....

//Hat Tip to Gen Giap

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:07 PM (9jfyN)

93 This entire fight is over funding for A PROGRAM THAT DOESN'T WORK!

Posted by: gastorgrab at October 16, 2013 03:07 PM (FX38i)

94 Ooh, I have it: "The Flame Party". Meaning either we're keeping the flame of a free people with a limited government, or we just want to watch it all burn, depending.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at October 16, 2013 03:07 PM (naUcP)

95 Why do I get the feeling that the establishment types want to drum me out of the party and replace me with an illegal?


La gran carpa no es suficientemente grande para ti, amigo.

Posted by: El Gobernador Jeb Bush at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (8ZskC)

96 I hate to say it but I believe some of the Tea Party criticism by those on the Right are heavily influenced by the misinformation and mischaracterization of them by the MSM.

It almost proves the theory of subliminal messaging.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (m2CN7)

97 Here's an example, there's conservative Rep in my state that was elected in 2010 as a Tea Party conservative that knocked off a Democrat.

He's been a model conservative with a voting record that's far better than most Republicans (well to the Right of Establishment hacks) but in 2012, he had a really tough primary from redistricting with a nobody retard over bullshit votes like extending the debt ceiling with the sequester because it didn't go far enough.

So here's a smart conservative that knocked off a Democrat, and if he's self-serving, he should just basically say "no" on every single vote, let the Democrats control the House (since he can't be a part of anything that isn't 100% pure) and just cash his check.

That's not winning.

Posted by: McAdams at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (rWsoZ)

98 Ace go read Walter Russell meads essay on Jacksonian tradition (referenced in a journal opinion today). It explains the tea party perfectly even though it was written 15 years ago. Particularly the respect factor.

Posted by: SH at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (pyh5u)

99 31 Anybody got any good names for an opposition
party? This is my biggest concern with leaving the GOP, no alternative
party with a catchy name. Tea Party and Conservative Party carry too
much baggage. Libertarian Party is already dominated by the chem-trails
crowd. Constitution Party might work, but is a little dry. Anyone got
any ideas here?
Blumpkin Party? Blow me and I'll snap a log.

Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 16, 2013 02:59 PM (oDCMR)


Yup. Tea Party.

Why? It's correct. And no matter what name you come up with the MFM and democrats will do handstands in order to trivialize any other name you come up with > Go with what you have.

Pick a flag and raise it. And this is your AO and no one gets through the wire, understand?

Hold Fast.

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (x3YFz)

100 #89
Yeah, sorta like who or what is going to deliver your "healthcare".

Posted by: ZEK 1317 at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (ChpRS)

101 *clambers up on Awesome Stepstool of Awesomeness*

For the umpteenth fucking time, the Hobbits WON.

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (VtjlW)

102 Seeing McConnell's smiling turtle face on Drudge and Cryin' Boehner leaves me depressed.

Posted by: Cheri at October 16, 2013 03:09 PM (G+Wff)

103 as repeated by Glenn Reynolds a lot -- "something that cannot go on forever, won't."


Yes, the politics of all of this is interesting. However, politics will never overwhelm math. There is no ritual or speech that makes compounding interest calculations come out differently.


The fantasy world that is our current state of politics is only going to make the inevitable worse. At the rate the establishment is spending, a day is coming where we will face either true default or near-slavery-level taxation, or some combination of both.

Posted by: jc at October 16, 2013 03:09 PM (PlzOe)

104 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?

---

The Free Blowjob Party.



Giving or getting?
Details matter.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 16, 2013 03:09 PM (p9JxP)

105
>>>The size of the "position" does not matter, the fact that rino's will cave is all that the democrats need to know.


That's simple! We'll have Ideological Purity testing! And purging! Becoz we loves the purging. Ooh, and pogroms.

Posted by: Bigby's Fist o' Trouble at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (3ZtZW)

106 Ace's writer's block lasted as long as Kelly Ayotte's virtue.

Posted by: dananjcon at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (wmU4G)

107 We talk as if the election process isn't being corrupted.

The dems are playing the end-game. Many, even some Tea Partiers, think that the playing field is still level. It's not. The referees are being payed off as we speak.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (3Mz5/)

108 Count me among those who would argue that the schisms go deeper than just "Establishment vs. Tea Party".

Because really even those blocs are further fractured when you look closely.

The "Establishment" is a mix of troughers, who are not out there regularly pushing anticonservative mischief (Hal Rogers, perfect example) and RINOs, who _are_ out there regularly pushing anticonservative mischief (McQueeg, perfect example).

The "Tea Party" is an uneasy amalgam of religious socons and minarchist libertarians and small-government-is-clean-government Midwesterners.

I have noted before that the last truly sweepingly successful Republican at the top level in national politics was Ronaldus Maximum. Who realized that, then as now, there are a lot of GOP factions which individually do not necessarily agree with one another all the time, or even like one another very much.

(Religious socons: 'Prosecute the porn industry.' Libertarians: 'Fuck you.')

Reagan's genius was to recognize that individually and quietly reaching out to the factions and letting them know that they were recognized and appreciated would pay dividends. Perhaps that's not a manageable and stable long term strategy, but Reagan showed that at least in the short run, you can shepherd enough of these folks into the same big tent for long enough to win elections and shape a national direction.

Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (gqT4g)

109 We need fancier, faster free phones.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at October 16, 2013 03:11 PM (71LDo)

110 Posted by: McAdams at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (rWsoZ)I'll counter with an example of my own - my recent Senate candidate announced that he would vote for an assault weapons ban, amnesty, was pro-choice, and proudly announced he voted for Obama in 2008.That's not winning, either.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:11 PM (TpXEI)

111 Tea Party? Never heard of it.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at October 16, 2013 03:12 PM (/1ATA)

112 The referees are being payed off as we speak.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (3Mz5/)


Then you fix it.

Shit what's our biggest problem? the MFM. So we crush them.

Message!

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:12 PM (x3YFz)

113 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 02:52 PM

Sorry but you're wrong. SCOTUS really doesn't figure in most of these fights. That gives the Republicans absolute control over 25%. They can block anything they want in the Senate. So defensively, they control 50%. That 50% should give them the ability to get something, like Vitter, out of these fights. But instead, they wander around like a confused mob while the Dem phalanx approaches.

Posted by: Chris at October 16, 2013 03:12 PM (aBOfW)

114 well, at least the GOP didn't fold faster than the PS4 launch lineup

Posted by: The Dude at October 16, 2013 03:13 PM (vJdyz)

115 Pick a flag and raise it. And this is your AO and no one gets through the wire, understand?

Hold Fast.



When does the throat slitting start?
(To borrow from Ace's banner)

Posted by: rickb223 at October 16, 2013 03:13 PM (p9JxP)

116 "The Republican Establishment is, as one might guess, conservative by temperament. "

No. This is NOT what a "Conservative" is. We aim to conserve the founding principles of America - not because of tradition, or because we're afraid of change. But because we're intelligent enough to figure out that there's no better approach so far.


Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at October 16, 2013 03:13 PM (Z1/Hr)

117 WTF. The scrunt Jennifer Rubin is insinuating Cruz is a perv like Carlos Danger.

Put up or shut up bitch.

Posted by: RWC at October 16, 2013 03:13 PM (fWAjv)

118 Reagan's genius was to recognize that individually and quietly reaching out to the factions and letting them know that they were recognized and appreciated would pay dividends. Perhaps that's not a manageable and stable long term strategy, but Reagan showed that at least in the short run, you can shepherd enough of these folks into the same big tent for long enough to win elections and shape a national direction.
Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (gqT4g)

Took him two primary attempts to acheive this and then got a big assist from the Peanut Farmer. I put Reagan in the top three of Presidents but his success was largely due to timing. Come to think of it, most success is due to timing.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (m2CN7)

119
Going 3Rd party worked for Conservatives in Canada (The Reform Party), but it took a long time (plus merging with the Progressive Conservatives) to gain power. And I don't think the United States has the luxury of 10 years of unopposed, open-borders socialism. It would be a fatal. Don't leave the GOP-- take it over. Its almost done after two election cycles. Have a little patience.
The Tea Party needs to primary some high profile moderates. If they aren't successful, then support them against the Dem. Rinse, repeat. Some moderates will be replaced, others will be converted. Think how this might have played out with 175 tea Party congressmen/gals.

Posted by: dirks strewn at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (kfcYC)

120 We talk as if the election process isn't being corrupted.

Crazy talk!

Posted by: Boxes of ballots in trunks of Mpls pollworker's car at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (/kI1Q)

121 They've put up Dole, Bush, McCain and Romney--every single one of those has a major expansion of government power as their signature accomplishment.

There is not one single part of the federal government the Establishment wants to scale back--let alone eliminate.

Why should we want to save this marriage?



(Americans with Disabilities Act; Medicare D, Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind; McCain-Fiengold; MassCare)


Posted by: RoyalOil at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (VjL9S)

122 Party Name Party Members
The Logical Party Logicians
The After Party Afterburners
Freedom Party Freedonians
Small Govt Party Lilliputians

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (A1UEK)

123 The "Tea Party" is an uneasy amalgam of religious
socons and minarchist libertarians and
small-government-is-clean-government Midwesterners.




Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (gqT4g)


nice try and categorizing us. Not accurate. Very good use of catch phrases, though.

You get an F

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (x3YFz)

124 The Tea Party people are fed up, and who can blame them?Oh! Oh! I know the answer to this!Hollowpoint and Jeff B!
Posted by: GMan at October 16, 2013 03:01 PM (sxq57)

That was the first genuine laugh I've had since the Jell-O party caved.

Posted by: RushBabe at October 16, 2013 03:15 PM (hrIP5)

125 Don't know if anyone covered this, but one bonus about the deal being reached: Remember all that pap from the Journolist about the shutdown keeping all those stories they were going to print about how ObamaCare was teh suxxor!!1!! all bottled up??? Well, the shutdown is over, OCare sucks even worse than ever, and now we can all expect just a flood of negative press over Barry's Folly, right? And if we don't get that flood of bad press, then we get to remind the little princes and princesses of the press very snarkily that they lied. Again.

It's not much, but what the heck.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at October 16, 2013 03:15 PM (DLu2s)

126 Slightly O/T but, imo, relevant to many, if not all, of the current day political discussions:

"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to."
- Theodore Dalrymple

I don't know who this Dalrymple guys is, or of his politics, but he nails the thing dead solid with that quote.

The PCist ideological coercion in our schools, including "approved speech codes" which begin in many elementary schools and continues up through colleges and universities, which can cause a student to be dragged before an Inquisition for something as slight as an off color joke that some grievance monger chooses to manufacture offense over, to the "zero tolerance policy" coercive indoc that is aimed purposely at raising up a generation of children fully compliant with surrendering their 2nd Amend rights and privileges.

This also explains, in large part, why the GOP has been very nearly completely fail at standing the line against leftism in all its forms and abuses.

Posted by: Grimmy at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (uUsh9)

127 "back and forth on tea party and establishment" -- heresy!

I have informed Brit Hume that he is right 100% of the time he agrees with me.

All these beltway media types are feeding off one another, back and ass-slappers. They all spew the same crap using a variation for originality.

Posted by: Bitch McConnell at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (Q63S1)

128 >>For the umpteenth fucking time, the Hobbits WON.

Not without a shitload of help from the establishment. Without Aragorn's sword, Gimlis axe and the gay elf's arrows they would have been furry grease spots.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (g1DWB)

129
Don't leave the GOP-- take it over.

I'm not sure it can. Big donors and consultants have all the power.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (TpXEI)

130 75 The Wild Party. Cuz we're like, wild and stuff.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at October 16, 2013 03:03 PM (8ZskC)


That would certainly appeal to the yutes. You may be on to something there.

Posted by: rickl at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (zoehZ)

131 115
Pick a flag and raise it. And this is your AO and no one gets through the wire, understand?



Hold Fast.







When does the throat slitting start?

(To borrow from Ace's banner)

Posted by: rickb223 at October 16, 2013 03:13 PM (p9JxP)


when no one's looking?

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (x3YFz)

132 *Maybe not, waiting for her to clarify.

Posted by: RWC at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (fWAjv)

133 Ace gets it, Brit Hume gets it. Now they need to explain it to the RNC.

Posted by: exdem13 at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (kfSXj)

134 31 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party? This is my biggest concern with leaving the GOP, no alternative party with a catchy name. Tea Party and Conservative Party carry too much baggage. Libertarian Party is already dominated by the chem-trails crowd. Constitution Party might work, but is a little dry. Anyone got any ideas here?

Posted by: mugiwara at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (3cxnA)


ANY NAME you come up with will "carry too much baggage." The media will guarantee that you will be labeled racist hatemongering children starving extremists who want granny to die without medical care.


Give up on the notion that you are going to FIX ANYTHING by changing a name. The Media (Liberal Democrat Propaganda agents disguised as mild mannered reporters.) will tie bad poll numbers on you like an albatross about your neck.


The "Tea Party" (after the Boston Tea Party) is just fine. It's not going to make any difference what we call ourselves, the narrative is going to be put forth by our enemies.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (bb5+k)

135 well, at least the GOP didn't fold faster than the PS4 launch lineup
Posted by: The Dude at October 16, 2013 03:13 PM (vJdyz)



Okay, so it's not just me that's wondering what the hell besides COD and Assassin's Creed are going to be available on launch day. The two big titles I want, The Order and Destiny, aren't coming out to mid-2014 at the earliest. Why the hell would I buy now?

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (VtjlW)

136 Reagan's genius was to recognize that individually and quietly reaching
out to the factions and letting them know that they were recognized and
appreciated would pay dividends.


Let's not bring Reagan into a discussion on shrinking the government. It's easy to bring everyone into the tent when they all get paid for being there.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (+lsX1)

137
Can't wait for faux tonight for Kraut and Hume, Rove and Grahamnasty to tell us how e just won by authorizing the Lyin kINg to spend another trillion.
Next Tea party filibusterer should spend his time at the podium showing how to log on and join CommieCare.

Oh and now that this is behind us the Repunks can make the focus about CommieCare.
Of course they can because the Lyin Rats, their Presstitutes and the RINO herd won't even think of making it about Legalizing invaders.

Posted by: Concealedkerry or SubMitt at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (vXqv3)

138
One of the problems that I have with the GOP leadership is that they always seem to start the negotiations with what they will actually settle for instead of starting with something that is completely impossible and then negotiating into what they wanted in the first place. They almost had it right this time except for the little fact that we had people ostensibly on our side ripping into defund before we could even get started. Of course the opponents aren't going to take you seriously when your own people are hammering you.

These clowns could stand to watch about 10 straight hours of Pawn Stars and then they might start to get a clue.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (JxMoP)

139 I had a Pakistani dentist give me an uneasy amalgam.

Posted by: Bigby's Fist o' Trouble at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (3ZtZW)

140 New Provo Front? Libertie de Quebec? Asian Dawn? I read about them in Time magazine.

Posted by: Hand Gruber at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (YmPwQ)

141 90 I have been talking to young African-American males and females about "why we fight."

They can be reached and MANY of them know there is a long con being ran on them.

If the GOP wants to force a return to American greatness to be a long hard march we could do worse than explain things to "low info voter" in terms of "control and hurting the economy by controlling too much business."

They resent the fuck out of white liberals they just hate us more.
Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:06 PM (9jfyN)


I spend a lot of my time doing the same thing, talking to young people and you are right...they can be reached. I like to point out that they are saddled with debt before they can really move ahead in life. I also like to ask why is it ok for them to work everyday and have the government confiscate their earnings to provide for people who willfully choose to not work.


What happened in Louisiana this past weekend should have embarrassed the race-hustlers, but it didn't. They like maintaining a poverty-minded constituency, who need them (the government) to function. I would be curious to know what Obama's opinion is on the EBT theft. Actually, I already know the answer.

Posted by: I Be That Chick at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (kVw0W)

142 " I do fault the Establishment for not re-calibrating its politics and realizing, The base is serious about these things."

Yes, we are, very serious, it's a blow when someone steps out and immediately McCain (followed closely by Graham) grabs a microphone and and shoots them down.

And does it without an intelligent counter position.

Posted by: furious at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (A98Xu)

143 con·serv·a·tive kənˈsərvətiv/Submit adjective
1. holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

- Hmm.. maybe Ace is right. "Conservative" does imply cautious.

We need a name change, then. Something rebellious, but which harkens back to our founding... Maybe referencing an angry revolt over taxation without representation..

Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (Z1/Hr)

144 Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?

How about blatantly ripping off Nigel Farage's UKIP and starting a United States Independence Party?

We could desperately use someone with Nigel's talents right now.

Posted by: cool breeze at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (A+/8k)

145 Brit Hume wears exquisite custom-made dress shirts; ergo something something something

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (8sCoq)

146 Compromise yes, but the result must be something that qualifies as 'substantial' federal spending cuts. I can't envision the GOP establishment agreeing to anything remotely close to this.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (epxV4)

147 129 Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (TpXEI)

I'm certain we can't...

McCain look in ANY way chastened from his loss in '08?

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (9jfyN)

148 I guess the Salt the Earth party is too aggressive?

Posted by: joncelli at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (RD7QR)

149 Politicians of all forms have lost their way. None of them govern to do what's best for the country and their constituents, they just do what keeps them in power and lining their pockets.

Posted by: © Sponge at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (xmcEQ)

150
Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?

No clue...but it's mascot should be a wolverine.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (sCynV)

151 (which almost seemed eager to confess they were fully Men and Women of
the Unreconstructed Left; they just needed an excuse to say so).


Why, it's almost as if the Democrats have been full-on leftists all along but they lied to get votes until the FSA was established enough that they didn't have to.

This is why they get along well with Islam, of course. Mohammed invented the concept of taqiyya.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (B/VB5)

152 Not without a shitload of help from the establishment. Without Aragorn's sword, Gimlis axe and the gay elf's arrows they would have been furry grease spots.Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (g1DWB)Those guysweren't establishment.The establishment was Saruman, ruler of Isengard, seduced by the power of the Ring to become a dark lord in his own right.The establishment was Denethor, Steward of Gondor, who had seen the Eye and decided he couldn't win. The establishment was Theoden, weakened in his chair and poisoned by Wormtongue into believing lies.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (TpXEI)

153 The "Serious You Guys" Party

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (8sCoq)

154 The Donner Party! We eat our own.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (71LDo)

155 Okay, so it's not just me that's wondering what the
hell besides COD and Assassin's Creed are going to be available on
launch day. The two big titles I want, The Order and Destiny, aren't
coming out to mid-2014 at the earliest. Why the hell would I buy now?





Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (VtjlW)

no WatchDogs or Driveclub next month either

Posted by: The Dude at October 16, 2013 03:20 PM (vJdyz)

156 "The only way this marriage can be saved -- if it can be at all -- is for
the Establishment to stop fighting the Tea Party on everything, and
instead begin plotting politically-savvy ways to forward the Tea Party's
way of thinking."



You're begging the question, Ace. I don't think the Establishment wants the Tea Party way of thinking to be advanced any more than the Dems do. I think the GOP establishment is happy with a very large government and the very large regulatory state that empowers the political class, irrespective of party affiliation. The Tea Party is a threat to that power, and that's why the establishment does everything it can to marginalize and demonize them.

Posted by: holygoat at October 16, 2013 03:20 PM (vAiDn)

157 Forgot to add:

The quote above was gotten from mrsmel, a commenter on Free Repub.

Posted by: Grimmy at October 16, 2013 03:20 PM (uUsh9)

158
Over time, of course, just as with the NRA.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM (QF8uk)


The NRA wins because it is a bi-partisan head taker.


If we want to win we have to take heads as well.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:20 PM (bb5+k)

159 so I take it the GOP caved on making government employees subject to TFG-care, is that right?

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:20 PM (8sCoq)

160 GREAT post, ace.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (qRasw)

161
so I take it the GOP caved on making government employees subject to TFG-care, is that right?

That is correct.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (sCynV)

162 Philip D. Klein (who Ace references by link) apes the same spew that all the other "conservative" media types do.

In truth, Andrew McCarthy and Byron York had it right. Byron writes:

--

"On March 13 of this year, Sen. Ted Cruz and 20 Republican co-sponsors
offered an amendment to a defense appropriations bill that would
"prohibit the use of funds to carry out the Patient Protection and
Affordable Care Act." With just 45 Republicans in the Senate (there are
now 46), and facing united Democratic opposition, the amendment had no
chance. "Sen. Cruz and I have been assured that this amendment will fail
and Obamacare will move ahead as planned," said Sen. Mike Lee, a
co-sponsor. "If that is the will of the Senate, then so be it."It was the will of the Senate; the amendment failed on a 52-45 vote.
But every Republican voted for the Cruz proposal. "I want to thank Sen.
Cruz for offering this amendment," said Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.
"I strongly support his efforts. … We need to get this bill off the
books and straighten out our country. This would be a big step in the
direction of achieving that."

--

Had these smucks voted the same way against cloture, they would have forced the Democratic Senators from red states up for reelection into a completely compromising situation. Either vote with their constituents (against cloture) or vote against their constituents (for cloture).

Posted by: Bitch McConnell at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (Q63S1)

163 I'm not sure it can. Big donors and consultants have all the power.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (TpXEI)


And from where is that power derived?

You dig into their businesses and go financial jihad on them. If you don't make money you have no money to spend, right?

This is a strategic war, not a tactical one.

The anonomous crew are retards and anarchists, but there's a few lessons to be learned there.

Keep it legal, keep it honest, but push back against those lobbying groups. Make an excel spreadsheet of lobbyists and their contributors.

economic warfare.

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (x3YFz)

164 so I take it the GOP caved on making government employees subject to TFG-care, is that right?


Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:20 PM (8sCoq)

please don't tell me that you thought the GOP would be serious bout that

Posted by: The Dude at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (vJdyz)

165 The Democrats incorporated their wacko radicals without destroying their party structure and apparatus. It moved them left, and there were some purges, but the party didn't die. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, the GOP doesn't need to "step aside" and let their wild-eyed radicals take over. They need to get smarter about incorporating, including, consulting, and using their radicals to best effect. They need to realize the game has changed, and will never again be way they were previously comfortable with. Adapt or die.

Posted by: NoIWontShutUp at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (jjsXL)

166 Party Name Party MembersThe Logical Party LogiciansThe After Party AfterburnersFreedom Party FreedoniansSmall Govt Party Lilliputians
Posted by: Z as in Jersey at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (A1UEK)


-------------------------------------------


How about the Nullification Party. States' Rights Party. Or the Secession Party.

DC is a lost cause.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:22 PM (3Mz5/)

167 141 I Be That Chick at October 16, 2013 03:18 PM (kVw0W)

Jack Kemp is sorely missed on this matter.

We're gonna wind up in one of two places on race.

1) Tribal as hell see Austria-Hungary and Yugoslavia

2) over it

but neither one nor two should require Communism

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:22 PM (9jfyN)

168 15 The Tea party realizes correctly that the difference between what a John McCain would vote on, and generic AZ Dem would vote on are about the same 90% of the time. What the Tea Party doesn't realize is that 10% is pretty damn important. But, before I forget, fuck McCain.
Posted by: Jollyroger at October 16, 2013 02:50 PM (t06LC)

Nice strawman. This implies that Arizonans only have a choice between McCain and a Dem. McCain could have been (and can be) primaried. McCain isn't the only politician in Arizona with an R after his name.

Posted by: tofer732 at October 16, 2013 03:22 PM (z3MpN)

169 Not without a shitload of help from the establishment. Without Aragorn's sword, Gimlis axe and the gay elf's arrows they would have been furry grease spots.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (g1DWB)



Funny. Here I thought that Denethor was rather the face of the Middle Earth Establishment. Don't even get me started on Theoden and Wormtongue.

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 03:22 PM (VtjlW)

170 165 NoIWontShutUp at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (jjsXL)

The GOP wants me to shut the fuck up and let them get the perks from running K street.

They refuse to attack the media or the democrats with the zeal they attack the Tea party.

The solution to that is to remind them they run K street b/c of US.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:23 PM (9jfyN)

171
Don't leave the GOP-- take it over.

Honestly and seriously, its not worth it.

You probably see value in taking over the experience, the machinery, the connections, the donors, the name recognition. I'm deadly serious when I tell you that the name recognition alone is poison, and the rest is why you're considering it in the first place.

Much easier to chase out the conspiracy kids from the Libertarians and take that party. If it gets within sight of something serious, I'll bet even money that Penn Jillette will pull a WFB on 'em and chase out the freaks.

Posted by: Bigby's Fist o' Trouble at October 16, 2013 03:23 PM (3ZtZW)

172 President Graham will reunite the party.

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 03:23 PM (a6O1A)

173 The "Tea Party" is an uneasy amalgam of religious socons and minarchist libertarians and small-government-is-clean-government Midwesterners.Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (gqT4g) nice try and categorizing us. Not accurate. Very good use of catch phrases, though.You get an F
Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:14 PM (x3YFz)





OK genius, so what *are* the factions that make up the Tea Party?



Honestly, torquewrench has it. And he is right about how Uncle Ron payed each faction their respects.



But for *that* he was called a "dangerous extremist" by the Establicans like George Bush the Elder. Remember? They kissed and made up and Bush became Veep, but remember the *whole* story of Uncle Ron.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (ujg0T)

174 "Don't leave the GOP-- take it over. Its almost done after two election cycles. Have a little patience"

The Wisdom of this Timbit eating, hockey-watching, overly-friendly Canuckibilly is strong. It would behoove us to listen....

...and make fun of his accent.

Posted by: Jaws at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (4I3Uo)

175 96 I hate to say it but I believe some of the Tea Party criticism by those on the Right are heavily influenced by the misinformation and mischaracterization of them by the MSM.


Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:08 PM (m2CN7)


The MEDIA is the primary enemy in this fight, and always has been.


The MEDIA are unelected Liberal Democrats who swing huge swaths of influence by controlling what people hear.

The MEDIA are the equivalent of the German Pill boxes, machine gunning us down as we storm Omaha beach. If we do not take them out we will get massacred.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (bb5+k)

176 The "Totes Awesome!"™ party.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (qRasw)

177 Primary the leadership.

Posted by: Iblis at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (9221z)

178 Threepoints...

1. The easiest way to electoral victory is to promise people stuff.... whether its the Free Shit Army, or business, or Union, it works in the Polling place (which was why the Founders did NOT want a universal voting franchise).

2. The TEA party folks TRIED to join the GOP.... they got pretty much coopted... and then dismissed. So now you want them to cozy up to the Washington inside GOP?

3. The current GOP is HORRIBLE at Politics. All they had to do was pass the dam Appropriation Bills out of the House, and then point at HARRY REID for the Shutdown.... as HE was the one holding up the already House Passed Bills. If every time a Repub went on TV, they would point out that REID is the problem???? The shutdown would have been a win.... (just defund Obamacare in the IRS and HHS bills.... then fight over THOSE two appropriation bills).

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (lZBBB)

179
The GOP establishment wants to have their cake and eat it too.

They want to oppose Obamacare, but lose. They don't merely EXPECT to lose, they WANT to lose.

That way the Obamacare boondoggle remains the law and the health insurance companies still make a fortune but the GOP can claim credit for opposing it. Win-win.

The GOP establishment LOVES BIG GOVERNMENT!!! They love handing out
government largesse to their crony capitalist buddies and sponsors. But
they don’t want to pay for it so they oppose raising taxes. Win-win.

Posted by: Lucky Pierre at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (5fSr7)

180 No clue...but it's mascot should be a wolverine.


Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (sCynV)


On the phone with the patch designer now. Coyote tan/black.

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (x3YFz)

181 Can I ask exactly at what point the desire to have a constitutional government with a balanced budget became "radical."

Nice to see that we have taken to using the pejorative rhetorical traps of the communists.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)--also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at October 16, 2013 03:24 PM (659DL)

182 Hmm.. maybe Ace is right. "Conservative" does imply cautious.

We need a name change, then. Something rebellious, but which harkens back to our founding... Maybe referencing an angry revolt over taxation without representation..


Harkens back to our founding?
How about:
"Fuck with us & we'll kick your ass"?

Posted by: rickb223 at October 16, 2013 03:25 PM (p9JxP)

183
And from where is that power derived?

You dig into their businesses and go financial jihad on them. If you don't make money you have no money to spend, right?


I think when you get the level of organization required for a financial jihad, you basically have a new party.

It certainly isn't a two or three election cycle job.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:25 PM (TpXEI)

184 The other takeaway from this showdown is a renewed appreciation of how utterly horrible the GOP are at optics and messaging.

The single best piece of optics from the whole showdown fight?

WWII vets storming the barry-cades at their own war memorial on camera.

Something that the GOP had nothing at all to do with.

There was one faltering attempt at optics management early on, from Cantor. He posted a photo of a long negotiating table, with Republicans lined up all along one side of it, and empty Democratic seats down the other, and captioned "Ready and waiting," or some such thing.

A promising start but they let it go nowhere and dropped the ball.

First off, that stuff was indoors, at the Capitol, in a quiet room. No. Wrong. Get outdoors. Make noise. Attract a crowd. (To include Democratic hecklers.) Speak through megaphones. Street theater. The media can't resist that.

And get some goddamned visual aids. Like a huge banner with a day count on it. Updated constantly.

"DAY 18 OF DEMOCRATS REJECTING PROPOSALS TO REOPEN GOVERNMENT". In forty thousand point high visibility type. Drop a big stack of budget paperwork front and center on the table wrapped in a ribbon. Put the onus on the opposition.

Want to know who understands simple political optics better than the entire Beltway GOP? This Colorado sheriff, who said that if the feds weren't going to open the national park in his bailiwick during shutdown, he would do it himself with his own deputies. And how did he illustrate that? Not with a lengthy wordy wonky press release. He posted one photograph. This photo.

https://pbs.tw___.com/media/BWY18KsCMAAGLVb.jpg

Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 03:25 PM (gqT4g)

185 >>Those guysweren't establishment.The establishment was Saruman, ruler of Isengard, seduced by the power of the Ring to become a dark lord in his own right.The establishment was Denethor, Steward of Gondor, who had seen the Eye and decided he couldn't win. The establishment was Theoden, weakened in his chair and poisoned by Wormtongue into believing lies.

Nope. Those are the left. The kingdom of men and their allies were the establishment but they were being defeated by the Sauron and the powers of evil.

One of the underlying morals of the LoTR was that different factions on the same side lost when they weren't united. But when they worked together and yes, made compromises and alliances with people they didn't see completely eye to eye with (like elves and dwarves, they had the power to beat back evil.

Same thing applies here. Contemplating a 3rd party is nice. Nice but ultimately futile. You want to walk in the wilderness for a few generations then go start a 3rd party.

Much better to work to change the thinking and if necessary the complexion of the Republican Party. Which is ultimately what is happening even if not fast enough for most of us.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:25 PM (g1DWB)

186 How about the 'Evolutionary Environmental Equality Party'? I'm thinking the name alone would confuse the press for at least a couple of years and by then we would control the world.

Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 16, 2013 03:26 PM (oDCMR)

187 In current American political parlance, compromise has one meaning and one meaning only.

That meaning is that those making any attempt to stand against the destructionists have agreed to surrender, often for nothing more than the promise of a candy bar after being gang raped.

Posted by: Grimmy at October 16, 2013 03:26 PM (uUsh9)

188 The Dollar Party.

It's all about saving a buck. Financial responsibility.
Pron, gay marriage, abortion... Don't subsidize them, don't divert a single dollar to them, but otherwise leave em to the states.

But I guess we do need to figure out our position on silver dimes.

Posted by: wooga at October 16, 2013 03:26 PM (Fi00V)

189 The Gasden Party. Ride the Snake.

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 03:26 PM (a6O1A)

190 "But that will require that the Establishment do some compromising of its own."

Well said, my friend! I am all about compromise because I am the last reasonable Republican the party has! If only these wacko birds would learn to agree, er, compromise with the Dems like me they would be perfect.

Posted by: John "gang of N" McCain at October 16, 2013 03:26 PM (JRmiD)

191 Fucking bastards, passing a law that fucks me over then exempting themselves from it


we used to stage revolutions over this kind of shit; now we just take it up the ass and complain on Twitter

I don't know what the fuck to do about this. So many of the quick and easy solutions are capital offenses.

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:27 PM (8sCoq)

192
But while I do think the Tea Party is sometimes wrongheaded in its theory of negotiation.........

All negotiations have a party with a low end and a high end. Somewhere in the middle they meet. They may not be happy about the final deal, but they are satisfied and can say at least its a start. With the latest theatre it had to be big or choke and succumb to the Libtards.
The establishment could have pushed, pushed hard and probably have won a one year's reprieve on the individual mandate since employers were exempted. But they didn't have the courage or foresight or wisdom or choose your own word to do that.
What we got was basically the GOP shot down in flames, the Dems getting what they wanted and the fundamental problem of insolvency kicked down the road for another commission which will be same type of shitty mess we had with the fiscal cliff in 2012. Then when the commission can't agree, debt ceiling has been hit, default is thrown around again, it will be the same vicious cycle.
I said it before, and I'll say it again, let it burn. Better a small fire then one that can not be put out.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at October 16, 2013 03:27 PM (HVff2)

193 Keep it legal, keep it honest, but push back against those lobbying groups. Make an excel spreadsheet of lobbyists and their contributors.economic warfare.
Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:21 PM (x3YFz)


----------------------------------------------


Ah, yes. Fight them with Excel. We're not fighting a political battle here. We're up against vicious and totalitarian radicals that are willing to go to ANYany lengths to take over this country.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:27 PM (3Mz5/)

194
The fantasy world that is our current state of politics is only going to make the inevitable worse. At the rate the establishment is spending, a day is coming where we will face either true default or near-slavery-level taxation, or some combination of both.

Posted by: jc at October 16, 2013 03:09 PM (PlzOe)


When riding into a ambush, it is better if you can get them to reveal themselves before you have your entire force under their guns.


We are heading toward slavery. Better a revolt now before the shackles are fixed hard around our necks.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:27 PM (bb5+k)

195 So how about the Red Hot Rage party? Still too radical sounding?

Posted by: joncelli at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (RD7QR)

196 Honey badger kicks wolverine's ass.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (epxV4)

197
Well now that the GOP has caved and received nothing in return, lets list
their accomplishments. Wait.......there are none list.

They have failed on Fast And Furious, Benghazi,IRS scandal, Debt Limit and
Obamacare. If all 45 Senators and 232 House members had stood united I believe
the outcome would have been very different. Their lying lip service to get
elected has now revealed their true colors.Next up they will support
immigration amnesty andthe final nail in the destructionof America.

Let me list the reasons why I should continue to support the GOP. Wait.....
there is nothing to list. I will no longer vote a straight GOP ticket. I will
change my party affiliation to Conservative.I will work to defeat Senators like
Cornyn, Flake, McCain, Graham and many others. I pray that they will all be
primaried.

I will work hard for politicians who keep their word and are willing to
take the heat from their own party,the media and the opposition party to save
America. I want to thankTed Cruz, Sarah Palin, Rand Paul, MIke Leeand all the
members of the House and Senate that stood firm. May God bless you on your
journey to save America.

I only hope and pray thatAmericans wake up before it is to
late.

Posted by: manometer at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (vjrgd)

198 Love this post. Excellent, ace.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (lVPtV)

199 Honey Badger Party? We don't give a shit.

Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (oDCMR)

200 It's all about saving a buck. Financial responsibility.

Pron, gay marriage, abortion... Don't subsidize them, don't divert a
single dollar to them, but otherwise leave em to the states.



But I guess we do need to figure out our position on silver dimes.

Posted by: wooga at October 16, 2013 03:26 PM (Fi00V)


WTF?

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (x3YFz)

201 "The Gasden Party. Ride the Snake."

I'm listening.

Posted by: Lindsey Graham at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (4I3Uo)

202 The NRA wins because they have a position that is part of the Bill of Rights and a large majority of Americans support that right not just because they like guns but because they recognize the fact that it is part of theConstitution.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (m2CN7)

203 Great post, Ace. I can't find anything with which I disagree.

Alan Dershowitz was interviewed a few days ago and questioned the Constitutionality of what Cruz has done, (countered later by Mark Levin) yet he made the point that Cruz is not only highly intelligent, but an utterly principled man. He stated that although Cruz might be wrong in practice, he would only undertake the fight if he believed whole-heartedly that it was the right thing to do.

Compromise and communication within the party are crucial and he must learn to bring the establishment along with him as best he can but, barring a sudden shift in their practice of shunning the brash, new interloper, I fear he'll be fighting an awful lot of fights within the party. My hope is that they will be conducted behind closed doors.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 16, 2013 03:29 PM (DmNpO)

204 195 So how about the Red Hot Rage party? Still too radical sounding?will the mascot be GTA's "impotent rage"?

Posted by: wooga at October 16, 2013 03:29 PM (Fi00V)

205 Brit Hume is a good man, also a Christian man (I appreciate how he has talked about his faith after his son died, but not in a manner that was aggressive or off putting) and an honest. man. One of the few journalists with integrity left, it seems.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 16, 2013 03:29 PM (a4Omg)

206 Great post, Ace!

The most dissappointing part of this budget shutdown mess has been the willingness of Republicans to wage war against Ted Cruz and the Tea Party - and many of them have been as harsh or worse that the Dems. Who the heck do they think they're appealing to?

Posted by: Lizzy at October 16, 2013 03:29 PM (JRmiD)

207 I always considered myself a Tea Partier. Lower Taxes, less government (everything).

Other than the left doing an Alinsky to my name, why the hate?

Posted by: furious at October 16, 2013 03:29 PM (A98Xu)

208
The dems are playing the end-game. Many, even some Tea Partiers, think that the playing field is still level. It's not. The referees are being payed off as we speak.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:10 PM (3Mz5/)


Control of the Media by Liberal Democrats is the most offensive aspect of the unfair elections with which we have already been contending.


The Media people are not Democrat whores. They do it for love, not for money.



Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (bb5+k)

209 The other takeaway from this showdown is a renewed appreciation of how utterly horrible the GOP are at optics and messaging.

This. Cantor had a great start and went nowhere, and after that all the good stuff was generated by WW2 veterans.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (B/VB5)

210 The GOP lost the House in 2014, and we will not even close to winning back the Senate. 4 million conservative voters stayed home in 2012 due to Romney. How many will do that in 2016? Double that

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (4WesI)

211 I don't know what the fuck to do about this. So many of the quick and easy solutions are capital offenses.
Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:27 PM (8sCoq)


-------------------------------------------


I'm with ya bruthu'. And we're not alone.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (3Mz5/)

212 "I don't know what the fuck to do about this. So many of the quick and easy solutions are capital offenses."

As they were 240ish years ago.

Posted by: Lindsey Graham at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (4I3Uo)

213 The current GOP is HORRIBLE at Politics.
____________________________________

That's what they want you to believe. Do you think the Washington Generals were really that bad at basketball? You don't go 0-13,000 by accident.

Posted by: Lucky Pierre at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (5fSr7)

214 Cantor and McCarthy have to go after Boehner is ousted. New Blood. We will be in the Minority in 2015

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:31 PM (4WesI)

215
If it wasn't for taking control of the states, the Rs wouldn't control a damn thing in DC.

Taking control of the states had nothing to do with the DC establishment.

Posted by: Invictus at October 16, 2013 03:31 PM (FBkKA)

216
Shit what's our biggest problem? the MFM. So we crush them.

Message!

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:12 PM (x3YFz)



It's nice that people realize we need to take out the machine guns in those pill boxes, but it is another thing to come up with a viable means of doing it.

Controlling our message isn't it.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:31 PM (bb5+k)

217 It is downright un-American and unconstitutional to pass a law that only applies to SOME Americans, not ALL.

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:31 PM (8sCoq)

218 What is the point in voting Republican when the result is they give the democrats whatever they want anyways. Might as well let the democrats win everything so at least when it fails, they are the only ones standing to get the blame.

Posted by: Liontooth at October 16, 2013 03:31 PM (xk0Xg)

219 off squishy wet sock

Posted by: Jaws at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (4I3Uo)

220 I hate John McCain. A traitor

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (4WesI)

221 It was the Dems and the MSM who painted the Tea Party as religious/cultural extremists. The movement started with PorkBusters during Bush's 2nd term and then flourished when Obama started getting the government involved in all sorts of things he shouldn't have (GM bailout, stimulus, etc.).

Why must conservatives let their foes define them?

Posted by: Lizzy at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (JRmiD)

222 Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:25 PM (g1DWB)

I don't know where the banished warrior ghosts fit into your guy's anologies but without them , they would have lost.

We need a little devine intervention ourselves.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (m2CN7)

223 But I guess we do need to figure out our position on silver dimes.
Posted by: wooga at October 16, 2013 03:26 PM (Fi00V)

WTF?
Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (x3YFz)


Seriously, you don't get the "silver dimes" reference? Luap Nor is rolling over in his grave.

Posted by: wooga at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (Fi00V)

224
...and make fun of his accent.

Hey. Let's just leave his funny accent oot of this, eh?

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (sCynV)

225 "This is going to be a more participatory process whether elected officials want it to be or not. That participation will either take place before elections, in a friendly manner, or it will take place during primary season or even general election season, in a hostile manner."

Solid gold.

I think that is the best paragraph I've ever seen you write, Ace.

Thank you.

Posted by: Name at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (4zLy9)

226
My hope is that they will be conducted behind closed doors.

Silly Dead Horse, they invented the circular firing squad..........

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (HVff2)

227 devine = divine

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (m2CN7)

228 The McCain-Graham-Romney-Mosbacher-Bush-King-Krispykreme crowd already knows the base is serious.

They just don't care.

Posted by: Ken at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (0cuUM)

229 Isn't there an equal protection clause thingy?

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 03:33 PM (a6O1A)

230 "This photo:"

"https://pbs.tw___.com/media/BWY18KsCMAAGLVb.jpg"

Goddamn pixyware.

THIS photo:

http://tinyurl.com/o4p5pc5

Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 03:33 PM (gqT4g)

231 What Tea Party?

My biggest gripe with the press, after the fact that they can't do math or hold a serious conversation, is "The Tea Party (tm)"

WHAT Tea Party?

Yes, I know, technically there is a Tea Party. They have a website and everything.

Are you a member? Do you have a card?

I've had a Gadsen Flag for over 10 years - far before the Tea Party was ever mentioned - but I'm not a member of anything other than NRA.

For the most part "Tea Party" is code for "Conservative." I don't know a single person who is a card carrying member of the Tea Party. Not one. Do you?

Tea Party is a grass roots movement that is an Attitude, and not a club. What is not being reported is that Tea Party is how a bunch of completely unrelated people *actually think and feel.* Where do we meet? Places like here. PJ Media. Real Clear. Etc.

We're not a club, we're a bunch of people who think the same way. We don't have talking points - which is something that liberals can't even fathom. We don't worship Krauthammer but, rather, listen to what he has to say... and then debate it.

To all intents and purposes: there is no Tea Party. And that's the real issue I have with the press. What we actually have is much more important than a club.

Plus, yeah, most of us can do math...

Posted by: RobM1981 at October 16, 2013 03:33 PM (dFemX)

232 Not with a lengthy wordy wonky press release. He posted one photograph. This photo.

https://pbs.tw___.com/media/BWY18KsCMAAGLVb.jpg

---

Linky no worky.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:34 PM (Hx5uv)

233 218. Agree. Let Rome Burn. Virginia will get what it deserves in McCauliffe, after voting for Obama twice.

Americans have become dumbed down by Tech and Popular culture. They need pain to wake up

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:34 PM (4WesI)

234 As usual, I'm late to the thread. And this time I didn't even read the comments before posting.
Nicely said Ace!
There's so much hate and vitriol in the country nowadays that nothing seems to get done. No discussion, no compromise. Name calling and lies....that's what's left. It seems the politicians do absolutely nothing until it's nearly too late, so we get one crisis after the next. It's quite tiresome. Don't know how to fix it, but it has surely grown tiresome.

Posted by: Passerby at October 16, 2013 03:34 PM (sOlwy)

235 I don't know what the fuck to do about this. So many of the quick and easy solutions are capital offenses."

As they were 240ish years ago.
Posted by: Lindsey Graham at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (4I3Uo
That didn't stop 'em Ms Lindsey

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at October 16, 2013 03:34 PM (HVff2)

236 What we need is a badass Gandalf with a big ol' staff to bust some heads and get these guys to work together. A Reagan type who speaks to the major themes of what virtually everyone on the right wants and has the ability to connect and unite the various factions and get them to work together despite their petty differences.

And someone who can get McCain to light himself on fire and jump off a cliff like Denethor.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (g1DWB)

237 This is a well thought out piece and yes, sooner or later, the Establishment and the Tea Party are going to have to sort this out. Also, the current Tea Party started out as a tax revolt. Then the socons and libertarians and others latched on to it. I'm sorry, but guys dressed up in tricorner hats are not good optics...

Posted by: JoeyBagels at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (ncPRK)

238 4 million conservative voters stayed home in 2012 due to Romney. How many will do that in 2016? Double that
Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:30 PM (4WesI)

and all 4 million of those guys can suck my balls.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (m2CN7)

239 Can I ask exactly at what point the desire to have a constitutional government with a balanced budget became "radical."

Since the Free Shit Army increased from 47% to 50+% and the 'rats figured out how to get them to the polls every few years.

Posted by: cool breeze at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (A+/8k)

240
I'm not sure it can. Big donors and consultants have all the power.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:16 PM (TpXEI)


This is the real reason establishment types can't make up their mind to fight.


Their donors aren't on board, and are often in conflict with their voters.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (bb5+k)

241 Much better to work to change the thinking and if necessary the complexion of the Republican Party. Which is ultimately what is happening even if not fast enough for most of us.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:25 PM (g1DWB)


Have a little patience. The GOP will change the same way that science does: through death and attrition. :-)

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (XkotV)

242 WTF are we arguing about who's who in the LOTR? Jeez, the Left are the Romulanz and the Establishment are the Klingons and Shaka, the walls fell

Posted by: Bigby's Fist o' Trouble at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (3ZtZW)

243 2016 will be a bloodbath for the Senate GOP. Toomey, Kirk, Ayotte, and Ron Johnson are goners

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (4WesI)

244 @ #231:

The media, the left, and the establishment GOP use the term Tea Party with the same inflection and intention as the Nazis used the term Filthy Jew.

Posted by: Grimmy at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (uUsh9)

245 216 Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:31 PM (bb5+k)

We're not to the part yet where I post FMs and mnemotic mantras about timing on obliques....


Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (9jfyN)

246 I'm not a lawyer, although I have seen My Cousin Vinnie several times. How does the ACA pass an Equal Protection clause challenge?


I mean, I'm just a caveman, but I am under the impression that the laws of the United States apply equally to everyone. Inequality before the law is tyranny.

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (8sCoq)

247 I do not think most Tea Partiers are actually completely maximalist
and uncompromising; I believe many talk this way to increase their
negotiating position vis-a-vis the establishment.


I would like to point out that Tea Partiers are in fact wealthier and
better-educated than the average American. It's also quite clear that
they are not-so-easily led at all.


Someone may have pointed it out already, but these go hand-in-hand. We are talking about a large number of people in the Tea Party whose business is business. Today's pols fancy themselves, or at least try to cultivate a public image of themselves, as consummate negotiators and deal brokers...a facade that anyone whose day-to-day living actually involves making deals and driving hard bargains sees completely through.

Posted by: Country Singer at October 16, 2013 03:36 PM (L8r/r)

248 The "Fuck This Thing In Particular" Party.

Would have a huge tent.

Posted by: RWC at October 16, 2013 03:36 PM (fWAjv)

249 Momentarily OT:

HOMEFRONT HUGS USA ‏@HomefrontHugs 19s
I am completely out of volunteers - PLEASE see how simple it is to adopt a hero --> http://ow.ly/pQjfL pls RT ! URGT need folks 4 help !

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 16, 2013 03:36 PM (DmNpO)

250 238. I was mad also, but they saw it first. They knew that Romney was Dem lite, just like the GOP Senate

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:36 PM (4WesI)

251 228 Ken at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (0cuUM)

They will.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:36 PM (9jfyN)

252 Americans have become dumbed down by Tech and Popular culture.

lolwut?

Posted by: Miley Cyrus at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (BrQrN)

253 Boehner: "we lost".

We didn't lose until you surrendered, asshole. You could just pass a clean six week debt ceiling extension while continuing the shutdown, but you are too hellbent on surrender.

Posted by: CK at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (LmD/o)

254 Bravo, Ace. Bravo.

Political success is not necessarily success for our ideas, especially if we abandon them.

Posted by: toby928© at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (QupBk)

255 The Tea Party is plenty big enough to throw a stick in the spokes, but not big enough to force an issue.

Posted by: The Jackhole at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (nTgAI)

256 REPORTER: Why have you not been able to create a bipartisan atmosphere here and, do you take any of the blame yourself for that?

OBAMA: I think if you look at my track record over the last four years, I have consistently sought comprise. Sometimes to the point where Democrats have been mad at me, but I didn’t care because I did what I thought was best for the country.


GOP: ( crickets )

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (j149p)

257 Ah, yes. Fight them with Excel. We're not fighting a
political battle here. We're up against vicious and totalitarian
radicals that are willing to go to ANYany lengths to take over this
country.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:27 PM (3Mz5/)


ok. Dennis Leary Voice:
You don't win the fight by screaming and yelling and running around like an idiot.

You pick your targets, do your research, unass your mental fucking chair, and hit them in the wallet. Mapping contributors and lobbying groups and using tools like J uses to map connections.

I know J (here's J: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jester and this wiki entry is a hoot and completely inaccurate) and he's.... skary? But solid.

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (x3YFz)

258 I cannot listen to Mike Medved anymore. What a Fraud and a RINO

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (4WesI)

259 So, if this marriage is to be saved, the Establishment must begin using its political savvy -- if it has such -- to advance important political goals favored by the base.

= Ace, you're joining the term "marriage" with "political savvy" as if you have experience saving a marriage. Really. That you've previously expressed admiration for liars hardly helps convince, either.

Admitting a jello foundation, encouraging others to join you on your malleable "foundation" to build? http://biblehub.com/matthew/7-26.htm

Political savvy IS DECEIT. Empty promises. Lines spoken by "electable" goppers, insiders and wannabees. Savvy, pfft: "Promise them anything; just get their votes." "I abandoned capitalism in order to save capitalism." "I abandoned my principles in order to save my principles." Republican politicians may as well stick to the old pervert line, "Hey, little girl. Wanna piece of candy?"

I'll kick the ass of anyone using pick-up lines as if to influence my vote, to game my support, to use and abuse office for personal gain, inhibiting constitutional governance, enabling cover ups. It all amounts to abuse, they want more time and more opportunity to further abuse me and my country through perverted governance. The Republicans think they can manage big governance better than Democrats; neither want less government which would mean less opportunity to game the system.

There's no way in hell I'm going to stand by silently during criminal acts from government agents. It is not my duty to turn a blind eye to corruption. I never took a vow until death do I part, in poverty and illness to remain faithful to the corrupt and abusive GOP.

The Republican Party will never get another red cent from me. My financial contributions will be directed to specific candidates who support constitutional conservatism and fiscal accountability from every public official and government employee.

Trickle Down Accountability. First cut off the snake's head. Don't start with the tail.

Don't play coy, pretending that the "establishment" Republican Leadership is conserving anything more than their access to power to use and abuse for their own personal gain, taking turns or not.

The Republican National Party lost a credible posture to represent rule of law when they refused to follow their own party primary election rules at Convention.

Transparency: there is no trust.

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (MhA4j)

260 My only problem with Ace's otherwise excellent post is the down vote on "maximalist" positioning on issues. That just suggests that (once again) all the give on positions has to come from the Conservative side of the process. We hear over and over and over some more that we the Conservatives have to compromise on our beliefs and positions in order to get the government. So we've accepted compromise and compromise and compromise again, while the Leftist-dominated Democrats get most (increasingly nearly all) they want.

And that's the problem, Ace. The Democrats are no longer the party of the Sixties, they are actually Social Democrats, dedicated to making the USA a non-Constitutional Socialist state, which we literally can't afford. They have staked out maximalist positions, and have given up very little. The Tea Party is staking out maximalist positions because unless a firm position is taken, we're not going to be able to keep the Republic bequeathed to us in 1787. We Conservatives have to be firm, get the message out, repeat the message 24-7 (like the Socialists in Democrats' clothing) and make sure the RNC understands that our methods get wins, not just repeatedly selling out in order to get meaningless perks while the country at large goes under.

Let the so-called Moderates and the Leftists come to us to work out the deal, not the other way around. Let them eat the bad results of non-compromise, for a change. We're in the right, we know it, and the nation world should know it as well. Obummer proved that the political game has changed. It's no longer "compromise" like we learned in Civics, it's a full-bore takeover attempt by the Socialist Left. We have to stand firm from the beginning, and only agree to compromise if the compromise is beneficial to Republican (little r) government. Otherwise, no, and nothing happens. And seriously, is having nothing happen in DC such a bad thing most days?




Posted by: exdem13 at October 16, 2013 03:38 PM (kfSXj)

261 Define irony...a generation of men who fought and died to defend the world against a leader who took upon himself the powers lawfully delegated to his people's representatives, then made himself immune against the laws he passed, only to be subject to laws passed by their own leader, of which he and his staff are exempt. Hmmmm....

Posted by: Felonious Monks at October 16, 2013 03:38 PM (0duDc)

262 Good post Ace. Dead on.

Posted by: maddogg at October 16, 2013 03:38 PM (xWW96)

263 238 polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (m2CN7)

I think Cons sat out 08 and Mods '12....

not kidding....Tard Akin, Sandy Fluck War on Tampon....

Conservatives laughed at that shit on facebook....moderates were the ones blanching

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:38 PM (9jfyN)

264
My problem with the Tea party position is I've yet to see a victory from these quixotic quests for purity.
...
Posted by: McAdams at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (rWsoZ)


Hey look!

Some dumbass completely missed the 2010 election!!!

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 16, 2013 03:38 PM (tOkJB)

265 "The Media people are not Democrat whores. They do it for love, not for money."

Mostly, but not completely. Obama plays them like a fiddle because he can can control their access to him. They know that their access, and therefore their livelihood, depends on staying on his good side (which isn't too much of a sacrifice for these groupies).

Not just the day to day stuff, but for the books they write (just read Chuck Todd is writing a book about Obama) as well as future employment opportunities in the White House. And there are all of the connections we don't see - the spouses and siblings who work for the WH or other Lefty organizations connected to the WH.

Posted by: Lizzy at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (JRmiD)

266 The only way this marriage can be saved -- if it can be at all -- is for
the Establishment to stop fighting the Tea Party on everything, and
instead begin plotting politically-savvy ways to forward the Tea Party's
way of thinking.


Maybe I missed the part where the Tea Party bears some responsibility too.

Notably, the obligation to Stop Doing Stupid Shit.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (SY2Kh)

267
You're begging the question, Ace. I don't think the Establishment wants the Tea Party way of thinking to be advanced any more than the Dems do. I think the GOP establishment is happy with a very large government and the very large regulatory state that empowers the political class, irrespective of party affiliation. The Tea Party is a threat to that power, and that's why the establishment does everything it can to marginalize and demonize them.

Posted by: holygoat at October 16, 2013 03:20 PM (vAiDn)


Doesn't hurt to repeat it.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (bb5+k)

268 "Why must conservatives let their foes define them?"

Let them?

Our foes own Education, Culture, and the Media lock, stock, and barrel. The teachers indoctrinate us, the culture reinforces the worldview, and the media gives them their marching orders.

I really don't know how you counter that in many ways that won't land you in prison or dead or both.

Posted by: Jaws at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (4I3Uo)

269
I mean, I'm just a caveman, but I am under the impression that the laws of the United States apply equally to everyone. Inequality before the law is tyranny.
Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (8sCoq)



The GM bondholders say hi.

Posted by: alexthechick - Commence drinking now. at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (VtjlW)

270 >>4 million conservative voters stayed home in 2012 due to Romney. How many will do that in 2016? Double that

I've been told repeatedly here that that is a lie.

Funny, Romney led the battle against gay marriage in MA and fought what was ultimately a losing battle as he was outmanned by a liberal judiciary and a liberal and lawless (but I repeat myself) legislature and he was called pro-gay marriage for it. So does that make Cruz pro-Obamacare?

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (g1DWB)

271 Forget trying to find another Reagan. Also, as great as he was, the Conservative revolution he led lost the culture war. Look at what he have today that we didn't have when Falwell, Robertson and Schafly were icons---more abortion than ever, online porn 24/7, strip clubs on every block, ED commercials. None of which, aside from abortion, that offends me, but you know what I mean...

Posted by: JoeyBagels at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (ncPRK)

272 There was a leadership vacuum in the party.

Some people stepped up to fill the void.

Then the buddy fuckers, who liked the drift along approach, started sniping from behind.

The buddy fuckers - McCain, Graham, Corker, et.al. need to be GONE.


Posted by: ThoamsD at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (FNTWi)

273
243 and Ron Johnson are goners

Johnson is a conservative. He's from WI where right now the GOP, conservative GOP is doing well. The Dems don't even have a candidate for him, yet. He is a business man and this is his first elected office. He rocks and he will stay if I have anything to do about it.

Now the others you mentioned, Toomey, Kirk, Ayotte are part of the rino pack. If they go, they go......Toomey use to talk a good game. Kirk is from IL, a miracle he even won and who has health problems. Ayotte, I think she wants to be John Mc Lame's 2nd famous daughter.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at October 16, 2013 03:39 PM (HVff2)

274 Touchdown. Ed Anger.

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (a6O1A)

275 I really blame the GOP scum in the Senate, more than Boehner. Reid and Obama knew they would win because there was no unity. McCain, Coburn, Ayotte, Graham are worthless Quislings.

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (4WesI)

276 Please allow 6 to 10 years for delivery of promises. Offers not valid in most states. Results may vary, please consult your doctor if butthurt persists for more than 4 years

Posted by: Republican National Committee Disclaimer at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (aTXUx)

277 I'm glad you didn't go on vacation this week, Ace, because that was a very good post, but I hope you will be feeling better and able to enjoy a vacation next week.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (a4Omg)

278 I think the Fuck This 'n' That cat would make an excellent Teaparty mascot.

Posted by: maddogg at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (xWW96)

279 I'm sorry, but guys dressed up in tricorner hats are not good optics...

Aroo?

Posted by: toby928© at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (QupBk)

280 The McCain-Graham-Romney-Mosbacher-Bush-King-Krispykreme crowd already knows the base is serious.They just don't care.
Posted by: Ken at October 16, 2013 03:32 PM (0cuUM)


---------------------------------------------


We can talk about the melding of the establishment and the Tea party until we're blue in the face, but your statement brings everything down to what the real crux of the problem is. They don't care what we think.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (3Mz5/)

281 and all 4 million of those guys can suck my balls.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:35 PM (m2CN7)

They stayed home because Romney excluded them from the process. Where was Ron Paul, where was Sarah Palin. Black balled. Now the GOP has done the same to Tea Party (conservatives again) They will nominate another squish like Chrissy C. They will reap what they sow. Not again.

Posted by: manometer at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (vjrgd)

282 There's so much hate and vitriol in the country
nowadays that nothing seems to get done. No discussion, no compromise.
Name calling and lies....that's what's left. It seems the politicians do
absolutely nothing until it's nearly too late, so we get one crisis
after the next. It's quite tiresome. Don't know how to fix it, but it
has surely grown tiresome.


Posted by: Passerby at October 16, 2013 03:34 PM (sOlwy)

The primary source for much of the hatred and vitriol is that many of us recognize that we're in a real (non metaphorical) fight for our right to even exist in this country.As to compromise, the last couple decades have proven, beyond question or honest doubt, that any compromise with the left simply advances the leftist forcing of our country toward real non-metaphorical tyranny. A compromise might slow the drift down, but only a little and only temporarily.At this point in time, any compromise on any stand against the destructionists, their useful idiots and their quislings is nothing more than surrender.

Posted by: Grimmy at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (uUsh9)

283 WASHINGTON, DC – House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) released the following statement regarding the bipartisan Senate agreement to reopen the federal government and avoid a national default:

“The House has fought with everything it has to convince the president of the United States to engage in bipartisan negotiations aimed at addressing our country's debt and providing fairness for the American people under ObamaCare. That fight will continue. But blocking the bipartisan agreement reached today by the members of the Senate will not be a tactic for us. In addition to the risk of default, doing so would open the door for the Democratic majority in Washington to raise taxes again on the American people and undo the spending caps in the 2011 Budget Control Act without replacing them with better spending cuts. With our nation's economy still struggling under years of the president's policies, raising taxes is not a viable option. Our drive to stop the train wreck that is the president's health care law will continue. We will rely on aggressive oversight that highlights the law's massive flaws and smart, targeted strikes that split the legislative coalition the president has relied upon to force his health care law on the American people.”

Posted by: CK at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (LmD/o)

284 Here's part of the problem, it seems to me (with all respect) that Ace's definition of "maximalist and uncompromising" means the same to me as following the Constitution.

Posted by: artemis at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (2XMD1)

285
WTF. The scrunt Jennifer Rubin is insinuating Cruz is a perv like Carlos Danger.

---

Link?

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (Hx5uv)

286 Johnson voted for cloture on a clean CR. He got in due to the Tea Party.

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (4WesI)

287 Seriously, think about the place we're in where "hey, let's not go bankrupt" is the *maximalist*, extreme position.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's Other Mobile at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (qyfb5)

288
At the end of the day, it was more about getting hopes up something I would like would be included in the deal, but I guess there was no actual loss vs. no challenge at all. So that being the case, I am glad overall that it created some havoc in DC for a little while.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (N8z9m)

289 There is a all out assault right now by the RNC and the RINO's to destroy the Tea Party.

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:42 PM (4WesI)

290
https://pbs.tw___.com/media/BWY18KsCMAAGLVb.jpg

Posted by: torquewrench at October 16, 2013 03:25 PM (gqT4g)


Can't open your link for some reason.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:42 PM (bb5+k)

291 279 toby928© at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (QupBk)

Seriously....but Ogabe's Black Panthers in Philly were just peachy....

//Eric "My People" Holder

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:43 PM (9jfyN)

292 "Why must conservatives let their foes define them?"

Huh? That's not only stupid, it is ahistorical.

Conservatives are defined by their support for the principles that this Country was founded upon. That is precisely what they seek to 'conserve.'

It is their opponents - by their stated desire to undermine or eliminate those principles - who are the reactionaries.

Posted by: ThoamsD at October 16, 2013 03:43 PM (FNTWi)

293 278 I think the Fuck This 'n' That cat would make an excellent Teaparty mascot.


I'm all for that. FTaTC is already my personal mascot!

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 16, 2013 03:43 PM (7ObY1)

294 My problem with the Tea party Establishment position is I've yet to see a victory from these quixotic quests for purity meekness.
...
Posted by: McAdams


Fixed.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 16, 2013 03:44 PM (j149p)

295 doing so would open the door for the Democratic majority in Washington
to raise taxes again on the American people and undo the spending caps
in the 2011 Budget Control Act without replacing them with better
spending cuts.


what? how? by being a big pussy?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 16, 2013 03:44 PM (N8z9m)

296 Maybe I missed the part where the Tea Party bears some responsibility too.

Notably, the obligation to Stop Doing Stupid Shit.


It's a well known fact that the best way to succeed in business is to tell you customers that they are full of shit.

Posted by: toby928© at October 16, 2013 03:44 PM (QupBk)

297
I don't know what the fuck to do about this. So many of the quick and easy solutions are capital offenses.

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:27 PM (8sCoq)


I have been thinking that perhaps we need to set our State houses in order first.


That drug addicted mentality as regards Federal money is pervasive nowadays.

Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:44 PM (bb5+k)

298 Paul Ryan is in a +D district. Hope he goes down too

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:44 PM (4WesI)

299 Second rule of Fight Club; Never say, "we lost."

Posted by: furious at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (A98Xu)

300 "Funny, Romney led the battle against gay marriage in MA and fought what was ultimately a losing battle as he was outmanned by a liberal judiciary and a liberal and lawless (but I repeat myself) legislature and he was called pro-gay marriage for it. So does that make Cruz pro-Obamacare?"

That's because he was all in with the homofascist agenda back in the early 90s and did absolutely nothing meaningful to oppose it while running for president.

Posted by: CK at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (LmD/o)

301 The "Fuck This Shit" Party

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (8sCoq)

302
Just reading this now, without having yet waded into the comments:

So well said, Ace. It's like you're one of us...

One of us. One of us. (cue creepy music)

Posted by: BurtTC at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (TOk1P)

303 >>My problem with the Tea party Establishment position is I've yet to see a victory from these quixotic quests for purity meekness.
...

How about the sequester level spending cuts? Making the Bush tax cut permanent? They don't count?

Want to win more stuff, win more elections.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (g1DWB)

304 298 Paul Ryan is in a +D district. Hope he goes down too
Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:44 PM (4WesI)

Troll?

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (XkotV)

305 Historians will one day pinpoint October 16th, 2013 as the beginning of the end of the GOP.

Posted by: Jukin at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (WGm5T)

306 Primary Johnson.

Posted by: manometer at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (vjrgd)

307
It would also help if Tea Party members would stop, everytime someone says something they don't agree with, claiming they were "done" with the GOP and wishing it dead.


I'm afraid its too late for many (I think it isfor me most of the time).Don't think it is just talk by pissed off conservatives anymore.The GOP wants to accuse "extremists" of brinksmanship, but they fail to acknowledge (hell, they may not even realize it) that they have been playing brinksmanship with their base for a loooooooooooooooooong time. It showed up last year, and I think it will show up double next year.

The only hope is if they actually figure out they have a problem (which I doubt) and begin, as Ace said, to show that they take this shit seriously.

Posted by: FITP at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (JRg1Y)

308 202 The NRA wins because they have a position that is part of the Bill of Rights and a large majority of Americans support that right not just because they like guns but because they recognize the fact that it is part of theConstitution.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:28 PM (m2CN7)


They also win because they give both sides reasons to support them and reasons to fear them.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (bb5+k)

309 297. Good point. We need to start by taking out crony capitalists in GOP primaries. Graham, Cochran, Croyn, and Alexander would be a good start in 2014

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (4WesI)

310 Primary Cantor.

Posted by: Boss Moss at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (a6O1A)

311
"So well said, Ace. It's like you're one of us..."

Ace could have just said: "I'm sorry and I hope Sarah Palin runs for President because she now has my undying support."

Posted by: jwest at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (u2a4R)

312 Time for McConnell to leave the Senate and start his new career as a lobbyist. Time for Boehner to go....somewhere else. I don't care where. Just somewhere where I do not have to look at him.

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (sugnf)

313 However much I want (smaller, less obtrusive government), though, it cannot be obtained without at least
both houses of Congress and perhaps the Presidency as well.


Written as if JAN 2003 through JAN 2007 never happened.

The Whigs have been getting kinda lonely in history's ashbin.

Posted by: DocJ at October 16, 2013 03:47 PM (g8ibn)

314 304. Not a troll, but he is pushing Amnesty

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:47 PM (4WesI)

315 304 Mætenloch at October 16, 2013 03:45 PM (XkotV)

No just a fan of AMIGO GRANDE! Maet...JackJ is a regular.

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:47 PM (9jfyN)

316 Re 267: I must support you, if only with regret, because it bears repeating. The squishy moderates in the Senate have been in DC too long, and they've lost touch with the Republican (and republican) voters who sent them there, who have elected all the noisy and argumentative Tea Partiers, and who evidently expect something beyond a negotiated "deal" that always manages to please the Left more than the Right. They are out of touch, and it shows more every day. McCain, Graham, and all that crowd have been in DC too long, and we must tell them it's time to go. Brit Hume nailed it. If they are not gonna play nice with us during session time, they are gonna have to deal with us come primary time.


Posted by: exdem13 at October 16, 2013 03:47 PM (kfSXj)

317 Make Sarah Palin Speaker of the House.

Posted by: manometer at October 16, 2013 03:47 PM (vjrgd)

318 Our Constitutional freedoms will not be decided by anyone in DC. They'll be decided on by the individual states. At this point, DC is a lost cause. It has been completely corrupted.

Posted by: Soona at October 16, 2013 03:48 PM (3Mz5/)

319 Primary Everybody

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:48 PM (8sCoq)

320
266 -

.... aaaand, there he is.

You're not listening, nitwit.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 16, 2013 03:48 PM (TOk1P)

321 Which is to say if you're GOP and you cave on Amnesty I would rather cut out the 12 year wait for Mexico to oust you and get the D in quicker

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:48 PM (9jfyN)

322 Of course all this bullshit would be moot, if John Roberts was a not a turncoat

Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:49 PM (4WesI)

323 Jackj, master troll.

Posted by: buh at October 16, 2013 03:49 PM (8lbgd)

324 Posted by: manometer at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (vjrgd)

Don't agree with you but even if I did, pull up your big boy pants because you proved no point by helping get Obama elected.

That reminds me. I used to say we needed to divide the country in two. I'm going now with the Biden plan and say we need to divide the country in three.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:50 PM (m2CN7)

325 If you were to mount an armed insurrection in this country today, where would one start?

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (8sCoq)

326 I have a question...so what are the Republicans going to do to stop amnesty? Especially the moderate wing of the party, I would really like for them to answer that question.

Posted by: I Be That Chick at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (kVw0W)

327
The Republican National Party lost a credible posture to represent rule of law when they refused to follow their own party primary election rules at Convention.

Transparency: there is no trust.

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 03:37 PM (MhA4j)


As we all know, the GOP did that to preempt Paulian shenanigans.

I didn't know until now that you are a Paulbot.

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (tOkJB)

328 Somebody picked an impossible week to go on vacation.

Posted by: Cindy Munford at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (jpulP)

329 Historians will one day pinpoint October 16th, 2013 as the beginning of the end of the GOP.
---

I'm not totally discouraged. They kicked the can down the road. Now the question is: What happens in December? We lost the battle (but at least we fought) but we have not lost the war.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (Hx5uv)

330 Jackj, cave troll.

Posted by: exdem13 at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (kfSXj)

331
Nope. Those are the left. The kingdom of men and their allies were the establishment but they were being defeated by the Sauron and the powers of evil.

One of the underlying morals of the LoTR was that different factions on the same side lost when they weren't united. But when they worked together and yes, made compromises and alliances with people they didn't see completely eye to eye with (like elves and dwarves, they had the power to beat back evil.

Saruman was appointed by the Valar (same as Gandalf). Denethor was a noble man who was rendered a coward by the Palantir and its connection to Sauron. Theoden was a noble man with bad counsel. Those were the establishment.

And the good guys were tremendously uncompromising: they refused outright to use the Ring of Power against Sauron (although one portion of the alliance - Gondor - advocated strongly to do so), instead committing to a longshot plan of sending a fellowship of 9 men to attempt to sneak it into Mordor. Hell, the elves were so obsessed with purity that they created the Three Rings in the first place to slow the changing of the world.

The underlying moral of LotR is "the Long Defeat" - that men are wicked and the world changes for the worse. Good can win, but at great cost and after great sacrifice. Only through Iluvatar will salvation come.

Tolkien began writing a story in the Fourth Age - this is after Sauron was dead - but he stopped because it depressed him so much.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (TpXEI)

332 Sorry but you're wrong. SCOTUS really doesn't
figure in most of these fights. That gives the Republicans absolute
control over 25%. They can block anything they want in the Senate. So
defensively, they control 50%. That 50% should give them the ability to
get something, like Vitter, out of these fights. But instead, they
wander around like a confused mob while the Dem phalanx approaches.

Posted by: Chris
............
Ok.. you are correct as far as legislation goes.

And, yes, that should give them some bargaining power. But what do you want them to bargain for? The stupid fucking Vitter amendment. It's asinine. Employers all over this country contribute something to the premiums of their employees. The Vitter amendment strips away that benefit. How the fuck does that prove anything?

Focusing on bullshit meaningless crap like the Vitter amendment is exactly what is wrong with this party.. ALL of the GOP including the Tea Party.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (f9c2L)

333 >>That's because he was all in with the homofascist agenda back in the early 90s and did absolutely nothing meaningful to oppose it while running for president.

Aside from saying repeatedly he did not support gay marriage what would you have had him done while running for president? Impale the head of a gay person on a spike at every rally?

He actually led a very spirited battle against gay marriage in MA but lots of people here called him pro-gay marriage simply because he was out gunned. The point is that it really isn't all that helpful to keep hammering guys on our side for fighting for causes we believe in if they lose through no fault of their own.

Cruz fought against Obamacare but he lost under similar circumstances. Something to keep in mind before claiming people are heretics.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 16, 2013 03:51 PM (g1DWB)

334 Really nice sales job the GOP Inside Baseball shills have done selling the Republican Party

I've moved firmly from R to I

Whenever we're told of the exquisite negotiating that must go on, you know .. "there are things being negotiated now that will answer all your questions, that's all I can tell you" .... that's a sure sign that what's being negotiated is who gets to stick it up my squeakhole first.

But he GOP Salesmen, enjoy your set of steak knives

Always
Be
Closing

Posted by: kbdabear at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (aTXUx)

335 The MEDIA are the equivalent of the German Pill boxes, machine gunning us down as we storm Omaha beach. If we do not take them out we will get massacred.

Been saying this--hell, saying it here--for years. Wish folks had wised up to it instead of sneering at it three years ago, but better late then never, I guess.

MFM Delenda Est.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (naUcP)

336 @273 You must not have heard Johnson on Mark Levin last week.

Posted by: artemis at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (2XMD1)

337 This is a poll question on politico..WTF ? :

Do you think Republicans are just using veterans and the monument closures to their political gain?

Posted by: The Jackhole at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (nTgAI)

338 324 polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:50 PM (m2CN7)

I voted for and donated to a man I hate McCain and a man I feared was not serious about winning Romney.

I'm gonna go join the others on the fainting couch.

Huckadoodle is hinting he is in for '16 and Chrispy Chreme is the annoited....

"no sale"

Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (9jfyN)

339 The "You Broke It, You Pay" Party
...shared values

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (MhA4j)

340 New Party - SPECTRE....fits the bill I think...every element is there...

Posted by: RightOne40 at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (8QW0x)

341 "Make Sarah Palin Speaker of the House."

She can't. She's preparing for McCain's 2016 reelection.

Posted by: Shoot Me at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (qiXMt)

342 The primary source for much of the hatred and vitriol is that many of us
recognize that we're in a real (non metaphorical) fight for our right
to even exist in this country.
Posted by: Grimmy at October 16, 2013 03:40 PM (uUsh9)

I realize that. The problem is that the R's only control one part of the government. They can't do much of anything without compromise. 'My way of the highway' only seems to work for the SCOAMF.
I still think the house should insist that they will work on nothing else until a budget is worked out and passed. No other bills, no other discussions PERIOD. Dingy just tables anything he doesn't like without a thought to the 'rightness' of his move. The house should do the same and stand firm.
Yea, like that's gonna happen.

Posted by: Passerby at October 16, 2013 03:53 PM (sOlwy)

343 If you were to mount an armed insurrection in this country today, where would one start?

---

This is purely hypothetical and I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS but money is the blood of government. I'd attack the IRS and shut down their ability to collect taxes.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:53 PM (Hx5uv)

344 264
My problem with the Tea party position is I've yet to see a victory from these quixotic quests for purity.
...
Posted by: McAdams at October 16, 2013 02:53 PM (rWsoZ)

Hey look!

Some dumbass completely missed the 2010 election!!!

Posted by: Ed Anger at October 16, 2013 03:38 PM (tOkJB)

Ed Rules!

//Like the zing at age-28 kid Ezra Klein, "never in my lifetime have I ever seen..."

Posted by: panzernashorn at October 16, 2013 03:54 PM (MhA4j)

345 Reading comments on an iPhone sucks balls.

Posted by: Garrett at October 16, 2013 03:54 PM (Qqx/f)

346 Posted by: FITP at October 16, 2013 03:46 PM (JRg1Y)

Show me one national tea party supportedpolitician that has publically demeaned and lied about what the establishment politicians were doing.

Posted by: polynikes at October 16, 2013 03:54 PM (m2CN7)

347 "MFM delenda est."

I can support that goal.

Posted by: exdem13 at October 16, 2013 03:55 PM (kfSXj)

348 >Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:53 PM (Hx5uv)


of course such a discussion is for entertainment purposes only

Posted by: Jones in CO at October 16, 2013 03:55 PM (8sCoq)

349 Huckadoodle is hinting he is in for '16 and Chrispy Chreme is the annoited....

"no sale"


Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (9jfyN)
Pass the hemlock...

Posted by: cool breeze at October 16, 2013 03:56 PM (A+/8k)

350 I don't often cave like a paper tiger (who are we kidding I never have)

but if I were to I do it like the republican establishment.

Posted by: Worlds Most Interesting Man at October 16, 2013 03:57 PM (WGm5T)

351 new funny thread up

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 16, 2013 03:58 PM (DmNpO)

352 Yep. Sarah is just to classy to say what she really thinks about that POS McCain.Not me.

Posted by: manometer at October 16, 2013 03:59 PM (vjrgd)

353 She can't. She's preparing for McCain's 2016 reelection.


And more of her stellar endorsements like Rubio, Ayotte and McLame himself.

Palin never gets one more red cent from me.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 16, 2013 03:59 PM (7ObY1)

354
Been saying this--hell, saying it here--for years. Wish folks had wised up to it instead of sneering at it three years ago, but better late then never, I guess.

MFM Delenda Est.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM (naUcP)


Been saying it since I saw them Cheat George HW Bush out of the election in 1992.




Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 03:59 PM (bb5+k)

355 When Sarah Palin was the VP candidate, McCain's own staff was leaking shit about she was stupid (South Africa) and her extravagant appetite (designer clothes).

The establishment would rather lose an election than have to compromise with those rube commoners.

Posted by: Liontooth at October 16, 2013 03:59 PM (xk0Xg)

356 How many of you voted for Democrats at some time in the past but started voting for Republicans not because they sold you on how awesome they were, but simply because they weren't Democrats

I did, but that reason has been shot in the ass

Posted by: kbdabear at October 16, 2013 04:00 PM (aTXUx)

357 How about the sequester level spending cuts?
Posted by: JackStraw


Cut in the rate of growth is not a cut. Further the Dem's are still working to eliminate the sequester cuts. (Reminder: those cuts are still a fraction of the Stimuless' increase )

Making the Bush tax cut permanent? They don't count?


Permanent? The one molested by the ATRA 2012? That one?

Or in the sense that his tax cut permanently removed millions of voters from the tax rolls?

Want to win more stuff, win more elections.

2000 - 2003, and 2005 - 2007 the GOP had all 3 branches. If a semi-tax cut that makes a near term tax reform impossible and a fleeting cut in the rise of a multi-trillion dollar budget is the best we can hope for, well, acting like backbencher losers isn't working.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 16, 2013 04:00 PM (j149p)

358 There is a all out assault right now by the RNC and the RINO's to destroy the Tea Party.


Posted by: Jackj at October 16, 2013 03:42 PM (4WesI)

And they have the media and the Democrats helping them at every turn.
Once you let someone with intelligence and an understanding of the Constitution loose in Congress, the "feather my nest establishment" types (of both parties) quiver in their boots. That's why Cruz will be crucified, vilified, and destroyed if at all possible.

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 16, 2013 04:00 PM (XdnQT)

359 Just stop giving ANY money to ANY R organization or RINO candidate & STOP voting for the Anointed ones by inside the Beltway R Fucks

Posted by: Evilpens at October 16, 2013 04:00 PM (xxjaY)

360 The Establishment guys got us the sequester and an actual decrease in government spending for the first time in a generation. It looks like now they are going to get us moving again toward an actual budget next year and away from the CR method of funding the government.

Where I come from, that's progress.

Posted by: rockmom at October 16, 2013 04:01 PM (NYnoe)

361
This is purely hypothetical and I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS but money is the blood of government. I'd attack the IRS and shut down their ability to collect taxes.

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:53 PM (Hx5uv)


You are naive if you think the government runs on real money anymore.


Posted by: Diogenes' Lamp at October 16, 2013 04:01 PM (bb5+k)

362 All great points Ace. Going with your premise, I completely agree....

However, I disagree with your premise.

To me, I couldn't give a damn about electoral politics related to matters such as the debt, 404care, or other key issues and legislation. Yes, I accept the fact this this can be considered naive by some, since it ignores the fact that ignoring electoral politics means that the guy that did the right thing might not be there next time around.

My answer: good. I didn't vote for you to secure your reelection in perpetuity. I voted for you to go and do a job NOW- which is represent my interests. I accept the fact that my interests and my neighbors may not always match. Fine. Do the best you can and I will forgive you when we disagree on occasion. I DID NOT vote for you to represent YOUR interests or the interests of some K Street groupie or John Boehner.

I don't want anyone in office that votes based on political expediency. If that is how they're voting that the answer will ALWAYS be "vote for free shit!" and "don't touch anyones free shit". I don't want free shit. I want my money to go to a defined purpose that is within the scope of government or remain in my pocket.

Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at October 16, 2013 04:01 PM (j0wOO)

363
:The only way this marriage can be saved -- if it can be at all -- is for the Establishment to stop fighting the Tea Party on everything..."


Exactly. Like I said, it's over.

The GOPe is interested in service to self, not the country. The GOPe'sfollwersare desperate for meaningless "wins"for moderates who know how to compromise with liberals as a first position.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

The GOPe isn't desperate. Think about why that is so.

Posted by: Meremortal at October 16, 2013 04:01 PM (1Y+hH)

364 Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 16, 2013 03:59 PM (7ObY1)

And Ted Cruz, etc etc. Ayotte OK. Rubio not so much.

Posted by: manometer at October 16, 2013 04:02 PM (vjrgd)

365 The Tea Party tends to talk in maximalist and uncompromising terms. I
do not think most Tea Partiers are actually completely maximalist and
uncompromising; I believe many talk this way to increase their
negotiating position vis-a-vis the establishment.

------------------------
This is the point. If you are conservative, fiscal or social, and you know compromise is required on certain matters to achieve an agreement, you stake out your ideal perfect position and work down from it. Negotiating 101.

The problem is if you 1) ask for something at the start so ludicrous that you could never, ever realistically get it (i.e. "One Hundred Trillion Dollars!" ala Dr. Evil) such that your opponent knows you aren't serious or are just delusional or 2) you are negotiating with a side that is "insane" in the sense they don't follow normal "rules of negotiation".

In this recent mess, the Tea Party was considered mad for asking that Obamacare be defunded. They have polls on their side. And this is not impossible - Congress can easily choose to do this. Just because the Democrats won't rush to do so doesn't make it unobtainable.

Then, when it became "delay", well, the Dems are already doing that unilaterally via the President's selective enforcement. So this, too, is not insane.

Also, the concern over the debt ceiling - there is no magic money tree, and logically, we can't continue this way. So demanding a ceiling and fiscal responsibility is not insane.

But the establishment Republicans could not close the deal with a hooker, let alone the American people. They simply cannot argue their positions because THEY DON'T HAVE ANY, they don't BELIEVE in any. Go along to get along. The Tea Partiers are the opposite, and they HATE each other as a result.

And when your opponent doesn't care about effects in reality, when they think they are bulletproof and have nothing to lose, when THEY act insane with no consequence, and they have the media on their side to sway neutral or interested observers, they DO ask for the moon because they know the other side will cave and give it. It turns into "if we don't do everything and anything Dems want us to do, well, we'll lose forever". Your surrender. And you have no position, no bargaining power, and roll over.

McCain and the usual suspects START OUT this way - they only "fight" enough to save face, to get Dems to do what they should already be doing (i.e. income verification for Barrycare) and think anyone that asks for more is insane (whacko birds). They are not OUR representatives, they are accomplices for the other side. They are de facto Dems.

This is why we lose - these Repubs are comfortable losing, knowing they will get the scraps. And comfortable losers HATE being exposed by vigorous fighters, so they attack the bigger threat. Hence, RINO v. Tea Partier, while the left accelerates our house's decline into financial ruin.

Because ruin will allow them to really get started building the house they really want.

Posted by: Saltydonnie at October 16, 2013 04:02 PM (i6shs)

366 Link?
Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (Hx5uv)

via Twitter. (probably reading too much into it though)

Jennifer Rubin ‏@JRubinBlogger 3h
@brikeilarcnn @MajorCBS he is the Carlos Danger of the right
Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More

Posted by: RWC at October 16, 2013 04:02 PM (fWAjv)

367 Huckadoodle is hinting he is in for '16 and Chrispy Chreme is the annoited....

"no sale"


Posted by: sven10077 at October 16, 2013 03:52 PM

Don't forget that Reverend Rick Santorum and Newt will be joining in to split the conservatives and Tea Party votes from a solid conservative to leave Christie or Bush as the winner by default

Posted by: kbdabear at October 16, 2013 04:03 PM (aTXUx)

368 Didn't leftists believe that Palin thought Africa was one country and not a continent made up of many countries? Perhaps that was "leaked", ie. made up by McCain's folks? Because anytime any leftist repeats that I roll my eyes. You think Palin is stupid? How much more stupid must you be to believe that a woman with a degree in journalism and who had been the Governor of Alaska actually believed and said that? If McCain's folks trotted out that stupidity they are despicable.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 16, 2013 04:05 PM (a4Omg)

369 If McCain's folks trotted out that stupidity they are despicable.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 16, 2013 04:05 PM (a4Omg)

FS, FIFY!

Posted by: Hrothgar at October 16, 2013 04:06 PM (XdnQT)

370 366
Link?

Posted by: WalrusRex at October 16, 2013 03:41 PM (Hx5uv)



via Twitter. (probably reading too much into it though)



Jennifer Rubin ‏@JRubinBlogger 3h

@brikeilarcnn @MajorCBS he is the Carlos Danger of the right

Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More



Posted by: RWC at October 16, 2013 04:02 PM

Jenny had better be purer than a nun's cooter herself or she's going to find out that Cruz's fans aren't like the Insiders who just crawl into a ball and die

Posted by: kbdabear at October 16, 2013 04:07 PM (aTXUx)

371 again toward an actual budget next year and away from the CR method of funding the government.

Where I come from, that's progress.


Posted by: rockmom at October 16, 2013 04:01 PM (NYnoe)


Sorry, but as long as Harry Reid is in charge of the Senate, you will never have a 'normal' appropriation bill process.... HE is the one who singlehandedly killed it LAST year.... and the Republicans in the Senate did not scream.... and the House caved and stopped sending Bills...

There are FOUR bills sitting on Reid's desk... including DEFENSE...

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 16, 2013 04:07 PM (lZBBB)

372 In this recent mess, the Tea Party was considered mad for asking that
Obamacare be defunded. They have polls on their side. And this is not
impossible - Congress can easily choose to do this. Just because the
Democrats won't rush to do so doesn't make it unobtainable.
.............
"Congress can easily choose to do this."?? WTF? You see, this is the kind of stupidity we are dealing with with you guys..

No.. there is NO EASILY. it is fucking dead in the water right from the beginning. It IS impossible.

And even if the Senate Dems were stupid enough to vote for defunding/delaying Obamacare, you have a veto in the White House.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 04:08 PM (f9c2L)

373

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false
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Bear with me here…

Was watching MorningJoe this morning and they had Rep. Sean
Duffy on at the time. He was talking about the Vitter amendment that would
force the staffers and Congress into ObamaCare. The insistence that the gilded
class be exempt from the impending ObamaCare disaster shows that they know this
will be failure. They don’t want to be connected in anyway to the pain that
ObamaCare will certainly cause. It was during this interview that I had a
revelation while watching eye-rolls from the perpetually douche-tastic John
Heilman. This has become a class war between the gilded class and we, the
vox populi…



The list of our enemies in the Washington/NYC cadre must
include: The entire Senate and House leadership, the Marxists who have co-opted
the Democrat party, race-baiters like Al Sharpton and sexist-baiters like
Sandra Fluke, the GOP strategists like Steve Schmidt, Mike Murphy, Mark
McKinnon and Karl Rove, the Obama regime mouthpieces Jay Carney, David Axelrod,
Bill Burton, Anita Dunn and virtually all of the MSM with special nod to MSNBC
by being so far up the Presidents backside they adopted his campaign slogan to
attract the truly clueless to their tiny viewership.



Its obvious they see us as the great unwashed, uninformed,
uncool and unaware of how things are supposed to work in Washington. Very few of these “elites” have
ever built a business, struggled with owning a business, ever had to experience
the sadness of having to close a business and then still move on with your life
in a positive way. From what I recall, the TEA party movement was started by
people like this who have had struggles and built their lives yet ask only of
the government to get out of the way. Instead of being embraced by the MSM for
being the embodiment of the American spirit, we are vilified, called extreme,
libeled as racists and labeled as terrorists.



If there was ever a time that Conservative ideals were
needed more, I cannot recall it in my lifetime. A third party is a noble bird
but he would soon be extinct. The fight begins within the GOP and cleaning
house (and Senate) of people like Mitch McConnell, John McCain, Lindsey Graham and all of those who want to continue the gravy train at our
expense. The gilded class has made war on us for the last 5 years, its time the
battle for the heart and mind of America be joined by those who actually built
it…






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Posted by: Tony253 at October 16, 2013 04:11 PM (PryWG)

374 "Sorry, but as long as Harry Reid is in charge of the Senate,"

so, elections do matter.

Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 04:12 PM (dZQh7)

375 Someone please explain to me how the ratings groups such as Moody's etc. threaten to downgrade our credit rating if we don't raise the debt ceiling (increase our credit limit) but won't downgrade it if we get deeper into debt.

I can't imagine that if I run up my credit cards to the limit, then ask for a credit increase, then run them up to that increase....that my credit rating won't be in jeopardy.

Or is that the new way now?

Posted by: Jen at October 16, 2013 04:12 PM (Puar7)

376 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 04:08 PM (f9c2L)

'IF' both houses of congress, voted in a Bipartisan manner to delay or defund O'Care.... I don't think Barry has the Nads to Veto....

He has never shown any Nads in anything else.... so why would he suddenly start now?

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 16, 2013 04:13 PM (lZBBB)

377 The Establishment guys got us the sequester and an actual decrease in government spending for the first time in a generation. It looks like now they are going to get us moving again toward an actual
budget next year and away from the CR method of funding the government. Where I come from, that's progress.


Uh, no and no. Budgeted spending in 2014: $3.8T
Spending in 2013: $3.7T
Spending in 2012: $3.5T
Spending in 2011: $3.6T

There were no cuts in actual spending. A 2% cut on a 7% increase as still an increase.

So "progress" where you come from means an already gargantuan government growing at faster than official inflation, albeit somewhat slower, and the CONgress returning to standard budgeting practice.

Meanwhile the Democrats are solidifying the middle-class killing ObamaCare, designed to bring-on single-payer and make it electorally impossible for anyone to the right of Jim Jeffords to be elected President, and make fully 60% of the nation direct clients of the Fed.Gov. All while the culture continues to drift further left, the debt has long-ago passed "unpayable", and crony "capitalism" continues unabated.

Some progress.

Posted by: DocJ at October 16, 2013 04:13 PM (g8ibn)

378 Tony 253, the Barrel awaits.

...IE4? Seriously...?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at October 16, 2013 04:14 PM (naUcP)

379 "No.. there is NO EASILY. it is fucking dead in the water right from the beginning. It IS impossible.

And even if the Senate Dems were stupid enough to vote for defunding/delaying Obamacare, you have a veto in the White House."

Yes...doesn't everyone know this? Defund->Delay were hail marry passes...no take that back...they were being down 2 scores with no timeouts and 30 seconds left, where we had to make a hail mary pass, go for 2, and then kick and on-side kick and recover and score again with another hail mary.

That is still worth a try, otherwise the fans go home angry, but nobody should be ANGRY when it fails.

Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 04:14 PM (dZQh7)

380 Enough with negotiation strategy.

The country is BROKE. That is non-negotiatiable. We either start to live within a budget (first step- PASS A FUCKING BUDGET ASSHOLES! You're all about "It's the LAAAAW!!! when it comes to 404care- aside from the fact that you're ignoring the law you passed.) or default. At this point, I don't gave a shit which one of those things wins.

There, that's your starting position. Now, you may proceed to negotiate the details of one or the other of those absolutes. Stop trying to pretend that "Well, if we cook the books this way, we're not reeeeally broke".

Reality is non-negotiable. Details about how to deal with reality are.

Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at October 16, 2013 04:15 PM (j0wOO)

381 "Sorry, but as long as Harry Reid is in charge of the Senate,"

so, elections do matter.


Hadn't said it in a while:

F*ck Nevada.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at October 16, 2013 04:15 PM (naUcP)

382 ''IF' both houses of congress, voted in a Bipartisan manner to delay or defund O'Care.... I don't think Barry has the Nads to Veto....

He has never shown any Nads in anything else.... so why would he suddenly start now?'

Look, if the Dems agree in the Senate that means Obama agrees, and he would only agree if it benefited him...

Obama had an easy time of it this go-around because Reid took a lot of the heat. Man, if we had won a few more senate seats in 2010,2012, this would be different.

Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 04:16 PM (dZQh7)

383 Harry Reid will remain in the Senate and be Senate leader until either the republicans win a majority or he dies. He is most certainly handing out all kinds of goodies, money etc. to the unions in Vegas and organized crime and will never be voted out.

That is the cold, hard truth. Remember when Dems such as Byrd were being wheeled into the Senate, and someone held the pen for them while they signed bills they hadn't a clue were about? Their voters kept putting them back in, just like people such as John Dingall, who can barely form a sentence. He keeps getting reelected by Detroiters every two years.

Posted by: Jen at October 16, 2013 04:17 PM (Puar7)

384 I think the Establishment Types should admit that in the 2000's they damaged the brand, and the Tea Party should tone down the rabid dog rhetoric. Keep the passion, but realize the game is 4 quarters long and its only half-time.

Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 04:17 PM (dZQh7)

385 This fight was not an effort to stop Obamacare

I was a fight for 2014 and 2016

This fight was predicated on the fact you need more than a GOP majority to defeat the Democrats

It has to be the right kind of majority

Cruz has made this clear for all to see

Some people here are just too dumb and blind to see it

Posted by: eman at October 16, 2013 04:18 PM (eKhu0)

386 The Whig party faded away because it refused to oppose the party of slavery.

The Republican party will fade away because it refuses to oppose the party of government.

Notice that the parties of slavery and government are one and the same. Not a coincidence.

Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at October 16, 2013 04:20 PM (YLI2v)

387 50
Anybody got any good names for an opposition party?


Posted by: mugiwara
..........
Yeah "Losers"


Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 02:58 PM
--------------Nah, the Republicans already took that one.

Posted by: Saltydonnie at October 16, 2013 04:20 PM (i6shs)

388
It's a well known fact that the best way to succeed in business is to tell you customers that they are full of shit.

Posted by: toby928© at October 16, 2013 03:44 PM (QupBk)


thread winner.

Posted by: tangonine at October 16, 2013 04:23 PM (x3YFz)

389
I think the Establishment Types should admit that in the 2000's they damaged the brand,

ESPECIALLY the Fiscal brand. They opened the door for what is happening now and I think the "Tea Party" types have every reason to ask "Who the HELL are YOU to tell us how to do things?"
That's the hypocrisy from Jeff B, Chi-Town, HollowPoint etc.

Where the HELL were YOU when the GOP went off the rails? Voting for the same tired ass, no spine SOB's that are in there right now, right?

Posted by: FITP at October 16, 2013 04:25 PM (JRg1Y)

390 19
The REAL takeaway from all this?



The Occupy movement is utterly forgotten, politically insignificant, a joke in the rear-view mirror, meaningless, pathetic.



Whereas the much maligned Tea Party STILL, after FOUR YEARS,
completely dominates the headlines and dominates national (and to se
extent international) politics.



The TP remain playahs. Occupy is in its grave already.



We may "lose" battles, but you know what: We choose those battles. And we're still in the fight.

Posted by: zombie at October 16, 2013 02:51 PM (+cx5n)

Good reminder.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at October 16, 2013 04:25 PM (AWmfW)

391 _______________________________

Ace,

Speaking as a conservative voter who technically falls in the category of the Tea Party, the reality of financial un-sustainability is only barely grokked by the Tea Party as a movement. The reason I claim we - the Tea Party as a movement - only barely grok it is: if we truly grokked it, then there would be no illusion that Paul Ryan's "extremist" budget might somehow save the U.S. from inevitable insolvency. Anything resembling Ryan's budget proposal is nowhere near passing into law. But even if it were, it would not save the U.S. from a major financial train wreck.
Rhetoric coming from top Tea Party spokespersons sounds something like: "If we don't follow the lead of Ted Cruz, we are bound for catastrophe!" - Which means, of course, that they don't get the fact that financial catastrophe on a GRAND SCALE is inevitable.

If our movement actually understood just how truly awful the situation will inevitably become, then our primary goal would be to communicate to the American citizenry that the Constitution needs to be changed so as to seriously restrict the federal government's (specifically Congress's) power to levy taxes.
Yes, we would still be engage in all these intense political battles over Obamacare, government shutdown, limit on the debt ceiling, etc. But all of those battles would be fought based on the overarching paradigm that there is a desperate need to Constitutionally limit Congress's taxation power.
The fantasy that electing a new and preferred crop of federal office holders into the federal government for the purpose of limiting the federal government and its Leviathan power is, well... pure fantasy.

But yes, Ace, you are spot on correct about the need for the Republican Establishment to realize that it should allow itself to become somewhat of a tool for the Tea Party's agenda. - Since the Tea Party is in fact its base.
My point is that the Tea Party's current and most hardcore agenda is still far from understanding the remedy necessary to curtail the U.S. Leviathan Government that has plagued America sense the early 20th century.









Posted by: _Dave_ at October 16, 2013 04:27 PM (J+Q+d)

392 It is clear that Cruz is a principled man who isn't afraid to fight for what he believes is right, even if it may be unpopular. That is called leadership. He has my support.

Posted by: Son of Liberty at October 16, 2013 04:27 PM (BPKIW)

393 Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 04:14 PM (dZQh7)
----------------------------

Yes, Hail Marys, exactly that. That's why I'm not angry they didn't prevail, it wasn't expected.

But the "establishment" Republicans didn't want to do even that. They wanted to take a knee and walk off the field, comfortable in defeat.

Posted by: Saltydonnie at October 16, 2013 04:27 PM (i6shs)

394 378
...IE4? Seriously...?

Actually its Firefox 24.0

Posted by: Tony253 at October 16, 2013 04:28 PM (PryWG)

395 Well stated. Too bad the brilliant ones in the Republican establishment seem to understand none of it. Even with some of it being pure politics which is their one area of supposed expertise. It may be hopeless but come on New Jersey voters.

Posted by: bertie at October 16, 2013 04:32 PM (IOfdt)

396 Ace, I disagree in one aspect - it wasn't mere apathy that helped to reduce political participation. It was primarily the elevation of so much to the national level, and the moving of so much power to the bureaucracy.
If your city council wants to tear down a beloved building and put up a carpark, you can mobilize and get a few hundred people to stop it - at least get it on a ballot. If the folks in DC want to close a national monument in a fit of pique, you have to mobilize thousands or tens of thousands and get them all to go to DC and make their message visible and dramatic. That takes a LOT more effort and money. So, if you want to take over the society and the nation, you nationalize everything, and run a crisis-centered, vastly populist campaign based on feelings and "doing something!"
You also hand over as much rulemaking to the mandarin class as possible, so you can shrug your shoulders and say "nothing I can do." You absolve yourself of responsibility, while still maximizing your power, and reducing responsiveness to the hoi polloi.
It was not an accidental thing that the populace began to feel apathetic about just how much it could change in politics and governance. It was the design all along - and globalization is the next step. The higher the level of government, the more technocratic and authoritarian it can become. Then your life can be ruled from conception to decomposition - all for your good!

Posted by: GWB at October 16, 2013 04:39 PM (Yv2t4)

397 Ugh, I should have added blank lines in there. :p

Posted by: GWB at October 16, 2013 04:40 PM (Yv2t4)

398 "Congress can easily choose to do this."?? WTF? You see, this is the kind of stupidity we are dealing with with you guys..

No.. there is NO EASILY. it is fucking dead in the water right from the beginning. It IS impossible.

And even if the Senate Dems were stupid enough to vote for defunding/delaying Obamacare, you have a veto in the White House.


Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 16, 2013 04:08 PM (f9c2L)-------------------------------------------------------
Going back on the sequester cuts was also a poison pill. But that didn't stop the Dems from asking for it. And from ultimately prevailing in the dispute.
"Easily choose to do this" means that there is nothing to prevent Congress from revising Barrycare, no natural law, no threat of death nor bending of reality EXCEPT politics. I stupidly assumed drafting and revising legislation to make it functional is important, and like, a function of Congress, so that it doesn't cause harm to citizenry.
But really, it's all about politics, so fuck actual harm. No Dem could ever do that and look bad, so no changes could be had, its impossible.
But wait, I though Barry delayed the employer mandate unilaterally? And granted waivers. And exempted Congress. And he did it to alleviate "the pain" it would cause his backers supporters. He did it to avoid "the pain" becoming public. But that's impossible, especially for the Executive. But he did it anyway.
If this defund/delay failed at all, it's because people were not explained the seriousness of what's coming. They are not hurt enough by Obamacare.
Yet.So, bring the sticker shock, bring the pain, and both Repub AND Dem reps start getting angry phone calls from people going "what the FUCK!?" and demanding the hook up or the fix.So, what, do they ignore the calls? Or do they take action in Congress to change the law, defund all or portions or the law, delay others, etc. Do we have to wait until that happens? Or will it be impossible then, too?This is why Obama waived portions in the Executive branch, so he wasn't forced to do it PUBLICLY when Congress brought it to him to sign off on after the disaster hits and the pressures on. Because you know he "won"t" sign off on any change. He'll veto it. Because he can't be wrong, or at least, can be publicly made to look wrong.And any change that's made, HE'LL make unilaterally. He already has.
But if you actually get Congress to pursue it, and pressure Dems instead of teabagging them, he will have to veto bills meant to fix his law, meant to refine his baby to help people. And he'll be shown doing it.
So do the Dems go home and claim they "tried" to lower your premiums but Barry sold them out?Again, if this defund/delay failed at all, it's because people were not explained the seriousness of what's coming. That's on the Republicans.
Any if this is so impossible, where would YOU start from? No defund, no delay. So what's your option to come down from? Since ANY change to Barrycare will be shot down? Why not just go home? Why not just surrender and prepare for the next hill to roll over on?I've watched Dems get shit passed I never thought I'd see done in my life, because they didn't take NO for an answer. We do. We're too scared to ever ask the question, to make the proposal. And that's why we lose.

Posted by: Saltydonnie at October 16, 2013 04:51 PM (i6shs)

399 I agree with most of this post, too, Ace. The only difference with me is that I gave up vacillating between the Tea Party and the Establishment around the time of last year's presidential election. I am now FIRMLY Tea Party (I was mostly Tea Party all along, but could see the Establishment's point sometimes; but after the knives came out for Todd Akin and Rove issued a death threat against him, that was it for me ever seeing their POV again).

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at October 16, 2013 04:54 PM (KL49F)

400 133
Ace gets it, Brit Hume gets it. Now they need to explain it to the RNC.



Posted by: exdem13 at October 16, 2013 03:17 PM (kfSXj)
********And a similar point was made by Keith Koffler earlier today. Perhaps the awareness is rising. And the TP needs to keep trying to win over conservative leaning Republicans and fighting and standing up.

Posted by: gracepmc at October 16, 2013 05:01 PM (rznx3)

401 "154
The Donner Party! We eat our own.


Posted by: dfbaskwill at October 16, 2013 03:19 PM (71LDo)"

That's actually not bad. It beats my idea of The Spoiler Party. If The Donner Party runs candidates only in districts where the Republican candidate sucks, especially if that candidate is an establishment RINO squish who won the primary only with a lot of help from the establishment wing of the party, eating our own during the general election might get the attention of the GOP in DC.

Posted by: The MSM at October 16, 2013 05:21 PM (q1sF4)

402 "...but after the knives came out for Todd Akin and Rove issued a death threat against him, that was it for me ever seeing their POV again)."
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at October 16, 2013 04:54 PM (KL49F)

Karl Roveis quoted as saying, "“We should sink Todd Akin. If he’s found mysteriously murdered, don’t look for my whereabouts!”

Look, I'm no big fan of Karl Rove but you do understand he wasn't serious, right? You do get that humor--particularly dark humor--is sometimes hyperbolic? He didn't really mean he was going to kill Akin, chop him into little pieces, and then dump Akin's dismembered body in the Potomac with the rest of all those who opposed Karl Rove.

I'm no fan of Akin's, either. He was chosen by McCaskill's people as the easiest to beat Republican, so she and her people encouraged Democrats to crossover andvote for him in the primaries (an old Chicago trick). It worked. And then Akin put proof to their estimation of him by going on record with the dumbest things to come out of a politician's mouth since, well,Joe Biden, and then refusing to step down when it was clear his campaign would never recover from his own stupidity. Akin talked like an idiot and behaved like an asshole when he was caught talking like an idiot. And McCaskill's still in office.

Posted by: troyriser at October 16, 2013 05:26 PM (gNlvW)

403 Posted by: troyriser at October 16, 2013 05:26 PM (gNlvW)

Akin lost due to a self-fulfilling prophecy: the Establishment screamed he wouldn't win, they made sure to deny him of any $$ from the senate fund, they attacked him more viciously than even the Dems did; so yeah, he lost! Of course he lost! Anyone being attacked by his own party would be sure to lose -- the Party made sure of that.

And I don't give a flying fig if Rove was "joking". For God's sake, you don't "joke" about that! Can you imagine if a Tea Partier made the same "joke" but it was Rove who was the butt? Ya think Rovie would've laughed? LOL, he is too thin-skinned.

BTW, what Akin said was not the dumbest thing since Biden -- O says colossally stupid things all the damn time. Oooh but, Obama has the MSM to back him so therefore our candidates must be PERFECT all the damn time. If our Party backed our dumb candidates as much as the Dems protect theirs, Akin would be the Senator from the state of MO right now. But, the Party are cowards hiding under their beds from the big, bad MSM. Eff them, the thumbsuckers.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at October 16, 2013 05:40 PM (KL49F)

404 I'll add that if anyone made Rove's "joke" with O's name instead of Akin's, the Secret Service would put that dude in jail in double-quick time.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at October 16, 2013 05:51 PM (KL49F)

405 Yes, people do joke about killing other people. I'm pretty sure my kids never took me seriously when I told them I'd strangle them in their sleep if they didn't do such and such. Otherwise lifelong trauma and expensive counselors and nosy Child Services investigators. So yeah: joking.

And yes, the Secret Service would investigate me if I publicly said I was going to hurt the President in some way, even in a joking manner. He's the President. That's why the Secret Service would investigate me. Akin, on the other hand,is not the President. Akin is an asshole. Therefore, the Secret Service, whose duty it is to protect the President,couldn't care less.

Posted by: troyriser at October 16, 2013 06:21 PM (gNlvW)

406 Don't forget the dems put $1.8 million into Akins primary coffers, giving him the advantage in the rep primary. After he won, they pulled out their file and showed him to say some pretty stupid things. When Akin won, the democrats won.

Posted by: Stephen at October 16, 2013 06:49 PM (o1E3D)

407 "Representative Aaron Schock of Illinois said the lesson of the episode was that Boehner should cut out the far-right flank and work with centrist Democrats."

...and now the Tea Party can feel fully justified in bashing RINOs...

seriously, who are these Moderate Dems?

Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 07:05 PM (dZQh7)

408 "If our Party backed our dumb candidates as much as the Dems protect theirs, Akin would be the Senator from the state of MO right now. But, the Party are cowards hiding under their beds from the big, bad MSM. Eff them, the thumbsuckers."

You go one believing that. Akin fell right into the MSM trap. Don't So-Cons know by now they will be asked about rape and abortion? Sorry, but if your answer is Lysenkoist rubbish, you should lose.

Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 07:10 PM (dZQh7)

409 "Don't forget the dems put $1.8 million into Akins primary coffers, giving him the advantage in the rep primary. After he won, they pulled out their file and showed him to say some pretty stupid things. When Akin won, the democrats won."

Money does not buy elections. Votes do. So who voted for Akin over the other, Tea-Party candidates?

Oh, that's right so-cons. Wonder why those so-cons couldn't have gotten all of their pastors to call up Akins' and get him to drop out. Nahhhh, its God's Will, see.

Posted by: sexypig at October 16, 2013 07:11 PM (dZQh7)

410 "The Tea Party has had it to the back of their teeth with small-government rhetoric. They do not want more small government rhetoric. They want smaller government."

Bingo!

Posted by: WannabeAnglican at October 16, 2013 08:05 PM (yKqpQ)

411 R.I.P., Tea Party. We hardly knew Ye.

Posted by: happylib at October 16, 2013 08:29 PM (9gkog)

412 New parties aren't pragmatic parties. They are advanced by continued errors in rule by the established parties. Both major US parties are fucked up, and people know it. Even if 100 percent of the Tea Partiers die tonight, the vacuum the Los Dos Fuckups Parties have created will produce still more alternatives. It's not a just a political principle, it's an energetics principle.

Posted by: Dirty Old Man at October 16, 2013 09:10 PM (AmJQd)

413
Brit you're goddamn straight right. That sumbitch Obama doesn't negotiate; he won't dirty his hands with the peasantry, other than to punish them. He needs to be kicked in the nuts, and have an electric cattle prod rammed up his ass. Same old same old for Nancy Pelosi and Dingy Harry. Our GOP pussies haven't gotten the job done.

Will the Tea Party win this round? I dunno--maybe not. But they need to keep kicking because Boehner/Boner ain't getting the job done.

Posted by: Comanche Voter at October 16, 2013 09:27 PM (0fuCe)

414 Ace sez:

"As you know, I go back and forth between siding with the Tea Party and the Establishment."

No. I know no such thing. You may have problems with the Tea Party here and there, but you have been quite open in your contempt for the Establishment. That's like me saying I went back and forth in my thinking about who would be the better Senator, Scott Brown or Lizzie Warren. Brown waffled a bit too much for my taste, but on his worst day, he's leagues better than Fauxcahontas.

"The only way this marriage can be saved -- if it can be at all..."

You mean, this marriage of the two factions of the party of which you are no longer a part? You have said openly and regularly that you have quit the Republican Party, have you not? So why should I care about what your opinions are on how it can be saved? You're not willing to help save it.

You said today, just hours after writing this, that being Republican is "a sucker's game. I choose to no longer play." And you've expressed similar sentiments before. Yet you keep telling other people how to play.

You also said today, again just hours after writing this, "I'm out. I honestly don't understand this party." Well, maybe if you don't understand something, you shouldn't be telling other people how to manage it. That's a lesson we should have all learned these last two weeks, while watching the disastrous rollout that is Obamacare.

"...is for
the Establishment to stop fighting the Tea Party on everything, and
instead begin plotting politically-savvy ways to forward the Tea Party's
way of thinking."

Ah, so the only way forward is for the Tea Party to get everything it wants, and for the Establishment to help. In other words, the only way to end this faction war is for one side to win, and the other side to assist in the victory. Frankly, I don't see why the establishment Republicans should think of that as a good deal. That's basically the same deal that Harry Reid wants them to take -- "we get what we want, and you figure out how to make it happen." And how exactly are they supposed to do that, when what you want crosses up political reality? As Ayn Rand would say, "blank out."

You are perfectly free to disagree with anyone and everyone about what the best way forward is. In fact, if you think Boehner and his ilk are wrong, it is your duty as an American citizen to oppose them, for the good of the country. But what you're asking them to do here is to sacrifice their judgment to your will. I think Edmund Burke had something to say about that once. As in, "don't."

But never mind. What's done is done. The House Republicans were forced into a fight they couldn't win, and not surprisingly, they didn't win it. Now we, the members of the party of which I am still a part, have to figure out where to go from here.

Posted by: Demosthenes at October 17, 2013 12:38 AM (c5AtG)

415
Hi Ace,
Brilliant piece! The comments amuse, disappoint, and in some cases add to your case. I am quite surprised at those that are 'agitated' angry w/ you for noting what ought to be obvious; that American political parties have always gone through periodic adjustments to better align with their own core constituencies, and sometimes separately with the broader electorate.
This is *not* new news, and parties have risen, declined (or vanished), and adapted many, many times over the long (maybe not long as a country in historical terms, but still the oldest current large democracy in the world) history of our nation.
It is healthy for the party that is 'out of power' (nowadays that appears to be the party opposite POTUS, particularly if the party of POTUS also has a majority in one branch of congress) to have a vigorous debate over both policy and strategy . . . and GOP'ers are going through that process. Bismark famously said the lawmaking process doesn't look good in public, and he was right. Modern innovations have made it nearly impossible for lawmaking, policy development or political decisions to be very private though. So . . . while Dems and progressives are celebrating the current chaos on the political right, and within the GOP, it is probably too soon to be scheduling a dance on the grave of the GOP.

Helluva site, BTW. Don't visit as often lately, mostly because you guys can sometimes grab my attention so much that other interest are neglected.

Best Regards,

Posted by: CAPT Mike at October 17, 2013 12:56 AM (DiQnH)

416
Silly Rabbits. The Tea Party isn't a Party at all, it's a Movement under many, many tents. It's We The People.I believe in the principle and philosophybut, some of the Tea Party groups I totally disagree with.Like Ace, I go back and forth.

So that being said, if a third Party is started, please call it something else besides the "Tea Party".

Posted by: tobeornottobeinTexas at October 17, 2013 01:51 AM (RlwNy)

417 I think the problem with the Republican establishment trying to work with the Tea Party, is that polling shows independent voters who do not affiliate themselves with either party are overwhelmingly against the Tea Party. You don't need independent voters to win local (house) elections, but they are required to win general elections.

As an independent voter myself, I've voted for both Republicans and Democrats in the past; I prefer Republican ideas about the economy and foreign policy. But as long as the Tea Party has the kind of influence it does in the Republican Party, I can't even back moderate republicans.

I hope that changes soon. And the idea that Tea Party people think they are 'We The People' is one of the most annoying aspects of the group. They are a splinter minority fringe; the exact opposite of 'We The People.'

Posted by: RWM at October 17, 2013 04:00 AM (a/ROw)

418 I'm sorry, but guys dressed up in tricorner hats are not good optics...
And that is a fair summation of why I am done with the dumbass Republican Party. When you're more worried about "optics" than you are principles, I can't caucus with you. I have cast my last vote for the people you put up for office, I'm just sorry I started with Reagan and had to end on a prat like Romney.

Posted by: Klawnet at October 17, 2013 09:22 AM (dmcx3)

419 Oh, and "independent" RWM? GFY, you dumb prick.

Posted by: Klawnet at October 17, 2013 09:25 AM (B5s0p)

420 Milton Friedman said long ago that the challenges is to make it "

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politically profitable for the wrong people to
do the right thing."

That's what the Tea Party is beginning to do: make it politically profitable for the Establishment to do the right (conservative) thing. Or, to put it another way, they're beginning to make it politically dangerous for the Establishment to continue doing the wrong thing.

If the Old Bulls think the Tea Party is going to give up and go home, they have some hard lessons ahead.




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Posted by: Harwood at October 17, 2013 06:06 PM (f5RFl)

421 Where did all that shit come from????

Posted by: Harwood at October 17, 2013 06:07 PM (f5RFl)






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When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat