ClimateGate 2.0? Emails Show US Government, Other Governments Lobbied Scientists to Downplay or Delete Evidence That Atmosphere Hasn't Warmed for 15 Years from Upcoming IPCC Report

The Science is Settled.

But don't ask how the Science got Settled. That's like asking how a cow got turned into a hamburger. You don't want to know. It's ugly.

AP show the U.S. and other governments pushed scientists preparing a new UN climate report due out next week to omit or downplay evidence that the earth’s atmosphere has stopped warming for the past 15 years.

From the wire - “Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted, saying a time span of 10 to 15 years was misleading in the context of climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries. The U.S. also urged the authors to include the ‘leading hypothesis’ that the reduction in warming is linked to more heat being transferred to the deep ocean.”

Ahem. Why are government bureaucrats telling Scientists what they think the Science should be? Isn't the whole point of the "Consensus of Scientists" line that Scientists have come to these conclusions based on nothing but Science?

That article -- more of a round-up than a full article -- links to this fuller one.

STOCKHOLM – Scientists working on a landmark U.N. report on climate change are struggling to explain why global warming appears to have slowed down in the past 15 years even though greenhouse gas emissions keep rising.

Leaked documents obtained by The Associated Press show there are deep concerns among governments over how to address the issue ahead of next week's meeting of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

...


The IPCC report is expected to affirm the human link with greater certainty than ever...

Let me just quickly say: "Of course."

... but the panel is under pressure to also address the recent lower rate of warming, which scientists say is likely due to heat going deep into the ocean and natural climate fluctuations.

...

Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted, saying a time span of 10-15 years was misleading in the context of climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries.

The U.S. also urged the authors to include the "leading hypothesis" that the reduction in warming is linked to more heat being transferred to the deep ocean.

Belgium objected to using 1998 as a starting year for any statistics. That year was exceptionally warm, so any graph showing global temperatures starting with 1998 looks flat, because most years since have been cooler. Using 1999 or 2000 as a starting year would yield a more upward-pointing curve.

Hungary worried the report would provide ammunition for skeptics.

Belgium wanted to play games with the start date. Hide the Decline 2.

As far as the US' insistence on the Ocean Gobbles Up More Excess Heat Than We Realized Hypothesis -- first, this is, by their own terms, just a hypothesis. This is a mere speculation offered up to account for the complete failure of their models, supposedly nearly flawless, to predict a 15 year span of no increased heating despite rising CO2 levels.

So there's so much hidden in this. First, they don't want to admit that part about "our models failed and now we're thrashing about throwing out off-the-cuff speculations."

Second, they don't want to admit that their models -- so perfect, so accurate that we should make multitrillion century long policy decisions based on their outputs -- now require supplementation by a brand-new untested, unproven speculation.

Third, throwing in an easy off-the-cuff speculation to a supposedly perfect model means the model as a whole -- the model plus the speculation -- now has the provenance of just the speculation. That is to say, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If the theory-- supposedly a theory in the scientific jargon of an all-but-uncontestable demonstrable truth -- now relies, critically, on a new speculation, then the entire system is now just at the level of a speculation.

Fourth, My God. My old chemistry teacher used to joke about the Finageler's Constant one would add to any experiment when one's experimental results departed from the expected ones. "Just add the Finageler's Constant," he'd chuckle. "Or subtract it. Whatever it takes." (Note: He was kidding. He was actually calling us out for being in the habit of doing this.)

But this is what "Science" is now doing -- eh, just toss in the Finageler's Constant. Sure our vaunted models failed spectacularly, but if you grant us this new Finageler's Constant, they sort of look okay.

Fifth. After being told that it didn't matter that the models had no idea how to account for the effect of clouds -- an enormous moving part in any model of the geosphere -- and so would be assumed to have no effect at all, we're also now being told that it's No Biggie if they also don't know how to model the behavior of the Oceans.

What? Your models perfectly predict the interaction of sun, cloud, and ocean, except you never bother to look at the variation in the Sun's solar output, you just assume for mathematical convenience that Clouds don't matter at all, and now you add to this that the Oceans might have some Mystery Properties you were hitherto entirely ignorant of?

You don't understand the Sun, the Clouds, and now The Oceans, and you're telling me that apart from these niggling concerns, you understand all that there is to understand about the Earth's combined atmosphere and hydrosphere?

Can you tell me what you do know, and what you are able to accurately model, apart from these minor "Let's assume they do not vary" factors of Sun, Cloud, and Oceans?

One could understand if they couldn't account for some small-ball factors in all of this.

But The Ckufing OCEANS?

That doesn't seem like a minor factor to me, guys. Sort of seems like something important enough that you should have researched its properties long before even announcing your Pet Theory.

Yeah you're all right. You guys sound like you know exactly what you're talking about.

Certainly you don't sound like high school juniors who just got caught out by their teacher for adding in the Finageler's Constant. No, nothing like that at all.


Thanks to @rdbrewer4

It's Gets Better:

AllenG writes...

Wait. The ocean absorbing more of the heat would lead to higher ocean temperatures.

Oh it's better than that, guys. Because there is no measurable elevation of ocean temperatures. (Or, I should say, no elevation that can explain the missing Global Warming, anyways.)

So what they speculate is that the heat falls down to the bottom of the ocean where it can't easily be measured. Like it winds up sequestered beneath a thermocline or something.

That's this Finageler's Constant -- the ocean's warming up, sucking up this excess heat, but it does so in such a way that it can't be measured.

Could this be true? Ehhh... sure. It's possible. Doesn't seem likely, but whatever, sure, it's technically possible there are hitherto unknown "ocean belts of heat transport" which move excess heat to the bottom of the ocean, safely hidden from scientists' thermometers.

But many things could be true, for God's sakes. Science isn't supposed to be a matter of "eh... I dunno, maybe the ocean secrets away the excess warming so we can't see it? Yeah, go with that!!!"


Posted by: Ace at 01:56 PM



Comments

1 It's not fraud. It's Evidence Management.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 20, 2013 01:58 PM (8ZskC)

2 It is all about power, control, less freedom, and MORE TAXES

Posted by: rd at September 20, 2013 01:58 PM (D+lxs)

3 But don't ask how the Science got Settled. That's like asking how a cow got turned into a hamburger. You don't want to know. It's ugly.


***********

Then--you definitely don't want to see French people making--

blood sausage.

Posted by: tasker at September 20, 2013 01:59 PM (r2PLg)

4 apart from these minor "Let's assume they do not vary" factors of Sun, Cloud, and Oceans?

Seems like the Sun varies.

But only us ignorant uneducated science-hatin' mouth-breathin' cousin-humpin' snaggle-toothed Bible-readin' hicks could possibly believe that the source of energy into a system might possibly have some sort effect on what goes on inside that system.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 01:59 PM (/kI1Q)

5 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 01:59 PM (/PCJa)

6 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 01:59 PM (/PCJa)

7 At least then I'd be *warm*

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:00 PM (/PCJa)

8 Too many people making a lot of money from govt grants and carbon taxes/credits to say "we were wrong."

Posted by: RS at September 20, 2013 02:00 PM (YAGV/)

9 Environmentalism is a religion.
That's the best way to discredit it because it's adherents won't admit it. They believe they are above religion.

We are pagan Romans living under the Emperor who just converted to Christianity and is imposing all these new laws that make zero sense if you haven't converted.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 20, 2013 02:00 PM (ZPrif)

10 Yes, let's ignore the heat sink covering 70% of the globe.

Headdesk.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at September 20, 2013 02:00 PM (XrGnJ)

11 Because Hockeystick!

Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 20, 2013 02:00 PM (tWmgi)

12 @9: You don't have to convert to understand environmentalism: it's another opportunity for graft, as Insty likes to say.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 20, 2013 02:01 PM (B/VB5)

13 and now you add to this that the Oceans might have some Mystery
Properties you were hitherto entirely ignorant of?



We'll call it the Oceanographical Constant.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 20, 2013 02:01 PM (8ZskC)

14
By the way, solar activity is lower than expected. We are at a Solar Maxima, and there is a distinct lack of sunspots.

It will be a long, cold winter.

Posted by: rd at September 20, 2013 02:01 PM (D+lxs)

15 There's a lot of literature on New Religious Movements. How they start and spread.

Converting the elite and ruling class is a time-tested strategy for a New Religious Movement to spread. To grow from a small cult to a widespread state-based religion.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 20, 2013 02:01 PM (ZPrif)

16 Grant money stops if Scientists' write a report that everything is getting better. Doom and gloom gets the bills paid. Rinse and repeat over and over and science gets more and more politicized.

Posted by: Shtetl G at September 20, 2013 02:02 PM (dlzlR)

17 Sounds like Ace had a cool chem teacher.

Posted by: tasker at September 20, 2013 02:02 PM (r2PLg)

18 I'll bet old Chuck Foo Foo over at little green shitballs is all over this.

Posted by: maddogg at September 20, 2013 02:02 PM (xWW96)

19 Ace, it's Finagler's, not "Finagelers." Loose shit!

Posted by: Jeff B., being That Guy, as usual. at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (n/+FT)

20 The warming would be much more severe if it wasn't for the ice fairies from planet Icehole.


Fuck it. Run with it.

Posted by: RWC Chalupa Batman at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (fWAjv)

21 This is not Syria you guys.

Posted by: Generation Y at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (rCS6C)

22 He who pays the fiddler calls the tune.

Posted by: tmitsss at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (yuTiW)

23 The long march through the institutions:
Government - check
Family - check
Academia - check
Journalism - check
Healthcare - check
Scientific Research... oooh we're so close!

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (BKPeM)

24 >Why are government bureaucrats telling Scientists what they think the Science should be?<

One of my biggest problems with tenure is it is stated to be an effort to protect the academic integrity or independence of teachers.

Nonsense. Just like this, it is an effort to protect a whole class of people who peddle dishonest, unsupportable ideas and other despicable tripe that's either been ingrained in their head by a liberal political class or spoon-fed to them by bureaucrats who hold the purse-strings to their institutions and salaries. This has been the effect of government involvement in education, science and the environment; a corruption of honest ideas and findings.

Posted by: Marcus at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (GGCsk)

25 And the only reason the curve is flat is because they use a "fudge factor" to increase it. If they simply published the raw numbers the temps have been declining since 1998.

Posted by: Vic at September 20, 2013 02:05 PM (zZbNF)

26 As far as the US' insistence on the Ocean Gobbles Up More Excess Heat Than We Realized Hypothesis

Wait. The ocean absorbing more of the heat would lead to higher ocean temperatures.

Higher ocean temps lead to more hurricanes/cyclones.

Did I miss an especially active hurricane season in the last two years?

Also, higher ocean temps would lead to quicker melting at the ice caps... which have been adding ice.

Can we just call this one "debunked" and call it a day?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:05 PM (/PCJa)

27 He who pays the fiddler calls the tune.

Not lately.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 02:06 PM (/kI1Q)

28 19 Ace, it's Finagler's, not "Finagelers." Loose shit!
Posted by: Jeff B., being That Guy, as usual. at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (n/+FT)

*************

Na--I like "Finagelers" better--it has a certain je ne sais quoi.

Plus then it rhymes with Langoliers.

Posted by: tasker at September 20, 2013 02:06 PM (r2PLg)

29 It's amusing how being "Climate Deniers" gets the label of "Flat-Earther" tossed in our faces when this is basically the Catholic Church coming together with with Galileo and saying:

"Look bro, we've been talking about the Heliocentric model for a long time now. It would just be in everyone's best interests if we just stuck with that. We're willing to make it worth your while."

And Galileo is all: "I get half of the cut of what you're charging for indulgences these days and I'm totes on board, you guys. Mums the word, hush-hush, and all that."

Hilariously awful form, "Scientists."

Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 20, 2013 02:06 PM (tWmgi)

30
Obama = King Canute

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman at September 20, 2013 02:06 PM (T0Pku)

31 I'd like for everyone to read this again.

Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted, saying a time span of 10-15 years was misleading in the context of climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries.

If higher carbon emissions drive higher global temps, then that effect should be a constant unchanging trend according to all the "science is settled" models. Now we hear that the heat is being stored in the deep oceans via a mechanism that can only be found in Harry Potter films and my kids' descriptions of how God works. All that heat is creating more ice at the poles, by the way.

And now, hippie bureaucrats that inhabit the climate change offices in governments around the world are in favor of protecting their jobs. When diehard Cold warriors kept their schtick alive in the 90s (remember the Yeltsin is just lulling us stuff?), they were mocked mercilessly. This is even worse.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at September 20, 2013 02:07 PM (659DL)

32
The Oceans are already devoid of fish, people.
What more evidence do you need?

Posted by: Ted Danson in Blackface at September 20, 2013 02:07 PM (L4p+9)

33 Disappearing Arctic ice cap:

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

Posted by: fluffy at September 20, 2013 02:08 PM (ZNrhs)

34 The science is be settled scuttled.

Shiver me tenures.

Posted by: Long Joe Mama at September 20, 2013 02:08 PM (/8Ucg)

35 You were going pretty good there for a while ace until the "Ckufing OCEANS" part. Why are you denying who you are man? Just say it. Just say it like you used to. *turns away to hide welling tears*

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at September 20, 2013 02:08 PM (+lsX1)

36 Notice how the "pause" in Global Warming goes back to 1997, which was about when the propaganda started? In other words, for most of the time during which these crooks and charlatans and poseurs were screaming about Global warming, there wasn't any happening. There is a technical term for this. It is called a "fucking lie".

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at September 20, 2013 02:08 PM (BKPeM)

37
1. Global WarmingCO2 released into atmosphere.
2. Globe cools.
3. ?????????
4. PROFIT!!!

Posted by: Lying Socialist Bastards Everywhere at September 20, 2013 02:09 PM (dSE0q)

38 Okay, I add in 1 fudge-factor *once* and I never live it down. I even admitted it and fixed it later.

These f*ckin' guys do it all the time, and somehow they're "leading scientists?"

Posted by: Zombie Albert Einstein at September 20, 2013 02:09 PM (/PCJa)

39 eh, "niggling" and "finageling"...getting a little close there big guy.

Posted by: dillhole12 at September 20, 2013 02:09 PM (uURnG)

40 At least the majority of thinking people aren't buying into this line of bullshit and realize it's just another power grab and tax scheme.

Posted by: L, elle at September 20, 2013 02:10 PM (0PiQ4)

41 There's not a single institution in this country that's honest, is there?

I think I'll grab a cup of tea and go outside. See you all later.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at September 20, 2013 02:10 PM (zF6Iw)

42
The reason they're pushing the "ocean is a big CO2 sink" is because that's their fallback position. You see, the earth isn't heating as fast as they thought because the ocean is absorbing the CO2, but at some point the ocean will become saturated with CO2 and begin releasing it back into the atmosphere. The newly released CO2 will add to the high levels already in the atmosphere leading to runaway global warming. The beauty of it is that the end solution remains the same (and will always remain the same no matter how many times the theory changes): slash production of fossil fuels.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at September 20, 2013 02:10 PM (JxMoP)

43 Yeah, I think tenure needs to be destroyed. It's past the point of providing benefit. It's now a net negative for society. The Left has entirely taken it over and uses it to just fuck us over.
Tenure isn't set in stone from on high. We don't have to keep paying these people to ass-rape us.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 20, 2013 02:10 PM (ZPrif)

44 But The Ckufing OCEANS?

Ckuf the Oceans, what about the Ckufing SUN ?!

Posted by: Blacksheep at September 20, 2013 02:11 PM (8/DeP)

45 I think it's Finagle's Constant. But I like Finagler better.

Posted by: Sarahw at September 20, 2013 02:11 PM (LYwCh)

46 But seriously, this is why the Climate Change ideology has made me so disappointed with some in the science community.

I grew up watching Bill Nye the Science Guy. I loved him as a kid. As I hear more from him, my greatest disappointment is not his militant atheist attitude or his belief that teaching your kids Creationism is child-abuse. No. It's his militant devotion to this ridiculous notion of Climate Change being the source of all the world's ills.

You would think that someone like Bill Nye would be wildly uncomfortable arguing with the Post Hoc, Propter Hoc logically fallacy as his best evidence but nope, he's totes cool with Hurricane Sandy = Proof of Climate Change.

Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 20, 2013 02:11 PM (tWmgi)

47 Ckuf the Oceans, what about the Ckufing SUN ?!

Hey! I stayed the court ordered distance away from The Chicken.

Posted by: The Sun at September 20, 2013 02:11 PM (B/VB5)

48 The Ckufing oceans are getting hot just like that Cocksucker Gore said they would!

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at September 20, 2013 02:12 PM (+lsX1)

49

I prefer a cocktail of CO2 and O2 in the morning, and all day long, baby.

The mixer of life.



Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 20, 2013 02:12 PM (IXrOn)

50 I think this is Climategate 3.0, if my count is correct.

Posted by: SOCR at September 20, 2013 02:12 PM (EkAxJ)

51 This was never ever about science.

It is about political ideology and wealth redistribution concocted by an arrogant elitist intelligentsia that is morally and ethically bankrupt.

Posted by: Athos at September 20, 2013 02:12 PM (SNaPm)

52

Thanks for the reminder that I haven't worshipped the sun today.

If only the roofers next door would leave.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (IXrOn)

53 In other words, for most of the time during which these crooks and
charlatans and poseurs were screaming about Global warming, there wasn't
any happening.


You know they're going to take credit for this, right? "Thanks to us--convincing some rubes and twits to reduce their standard of living, etc--crisis was averted!" And then double down...if a little bit was good, more is better.

Like belladonna.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (/kI1Q)

54 Look at the war in physics between the Disciples of 10 Dimensions vs Disciples of 11 Dimensions. String vs gravity. The research money was in the 'cool' discipline of String then String became five String theories. Oooppss. So now we have Membrane or M which is String but with 11 dimensions instead of 10.

So yeah don't tell me anything about consensus and settled science.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (pDfBu)

55 They panic because they know this isn't just bad science, it's outright deliberate fucking fraud.

I say keelhaul the lot of these scurvy sons of whores!

Posted by: Fritz at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (UzPAd)

56 "31
I'd like for everyone to read this again.



'Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted,
saying a time span of 10-15 years was misleading in the context of
climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries.'
"

Exactly. Because we've totally been burning fossil fuels for thousands of years now....

Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (tWmgi)

57 Meanwhile, in Australia, the new government under just-elected PM Tony Abbott has disbanded the Climate Commission,sacked warmist alarmist head Tim Flannery, and started wheels in motion to repeal the carbon tax. So there's some good news.

Posted by: Alex at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (/yzYn)

58 This is getting to be like a scandal in Asia. We need to find an way for them to admit they're wrong in an 'honorable' [to them] sense for them to back down. Just saying 'oh we blew it sorry' means a whole field of science is ruined, a whole generation of research thrown out, billions of dollars wasted, politicians acrost the world made into laughingstocks, international consortiums and higher education foundations liquidated. Won't happen.

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (3ZtZW)

59 Extra heat going into the deep ocean. Hmmm.

It's not like heat *rises* or anything.

Facepalm.

Posted by: Stirner at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (Ytuz8)

60 *puts on glasses to look all smart and stuff*

We're scientists. SCIENTISTS! Trust us.

Posted by: The Scientists at September 20, 2013 02:14 PM (ELdpj)

61 HBO to make Benghazi movie.

Yeah, this should be good.

Posted by: RWC Chalupa Batman at September 20, 2013 02:14 PM (fWAjv)

62
And the only reason the curve is flat is because they use a "fudge
factor" to increase it. If they simply published the raw numbers the
temps have been declining since 1998.
---
And don't forget the constant 'adjustment' in the historical data that for some reason always gets colder.

Posted by: CUS at September 20, 2013 02:14 PM (84pE9)

63 61 HBO to make Benghazi movie.

Yeah, this should be good.
Posted by: RWC Chalupa Batman at September 20, 2013 02:14 PM (fWAjv)


**********

Oh gawd.

Posted by: tasker at September 20, 2013 02:15 PM (r2PLg)

64 I think it's Finagle's Constant. But I like Finagler better.
--
We always just called it 'The Fudge Factor'.

Posted by: CUS at September 20, 2013 02:15 PM (84pE9)

65 >>>It's not like heat *rises* or anything.

Science is whatever we want it to be.


Posted by: ace at September 20, 2013 02:15 PM (/IWYB)

66 Back off, man. I'm a scientist.

Posted by: Dr. Peter Venkman at September 20, 2013 02:15 PM (B/VB5)

67 The new government under just-elected PM Tony Abbott has disbanded the
Climate Commission,sacked warmist alarmist head Tim Flannery, and
started wheels in motion to repeal the carbon tax.


That was fast. If I was a guy, I'd be typing "it moved."

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 02:15 PM (/kI1Q)

68

Hey, hey, mama, what's the matter here
You didn't have to make me a total disgrace
You didn't have to leave me with that beer in my face
Hey, hey, mama, what's the matter here
That's alright, it's awful dog-gone clear.


total disgrace

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 20, 2013 02:16 PM (IXrOn)

69 Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted, saying a time span of 10-15 years was misleading in the context of climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries.

Thermometers with Fahrenheit or Celsius scales haven't even been around for three hundred years and these arrogant cocksuckers pretend they can tell you what the temperature was in the Middle Ages by looking at a fucking tree ring, much less WHY the temperature was what it was at the time.

They can't even tell you what the exact temperature will be 6 hours from now.

Gimme a break, assholes.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:16 PM (CJjw5)

70 So what they speculate is that the heat falls down to the bottom of the ocean where it can't easily be measured.

I've seen evidence that the temperature in the deepest part of the ocean is 33 degrees Fahrenheit.

One f*cking degree above freezing.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at September 20, 2013 02:16 PM (U2UQk)

71 The lag between rising atmospheric temperatures and a rise in ocean temperatures is measured in thousands of years.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:16 PM (pDfBu)

72
So yeah don't tell me anything about consensus and settled science.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (pDfBu)

As far as I can discern, the disagreement over 10 or 11 dimensions is how far you can get before a potential dimensional universe becomes too unstable to exist, depending on the model that you're using to pursue your calculations.

I thought most people were on board with 11 now just because it will at least come out as somewhat stable rather than entirely too unstable to exist... I don't know. That's just my understanding of it as a layman interested in these things.

Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 20, 2013 02:17 PM (tWmgi)

73 Ha! Bigbys Trigger Finger!

I like that variation.

Posted by: L, elle at September 20, 2013 02:17 PM (0PiQ4)

74 Doesn't warmer water rise?

Posted by: Garden Gnome at September 20, 2013 02:18 PM (99eOS)

75 This is why people (by which I mean me) no longer trust scientists. When what you're doing does, in fact, rely on and then magic happens and when you destroy the original data and when you are basing your theory on a tree ring in Siberia and when you just ignore tiny little things like that big glowy thing in the sky and those big watery things over there, you'll have to forgive me for thinking that what you're doing isn't science.


*clambers up on soap box*

What pisses me off? Now we can't have actual, important, meaningful discussions about true environmental issues. What do we do with nuclear waste? What are the dangers of fracking? How can we move to renewable resources without also having to strip mine off the tops of mountains to get at the heavy metals necessary to make the capacitors to allow meaningful transfer of the energy generated?

Nope. Can't talk about that. Everything is serious you guys global warming I mean climate change I mean climate chaos. As an old school conservationist, this pisses me right the hell off.


*stares around*

How do you people do this? The ground is so far away!

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 02:18 PM (VtjlW)

76 "heat going deeper into the ocean"

Because everyone knows heat sinks. Especially in salt water.

Posted by: OCBill at September 20, 2013 02:19 PM (rFipM)

77 "HBO to make Benghazi movie."

Entitled "Spades and YouTube: The Difference They Make"

Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 20, 2013 02:19 PM (tWmgi)

78 I mean, who hasn't heard the term "heat sink"?

Posted by: OCBill at September 20, 2013 02:19 PM (rFipM)

79 AGW continues to fall apart yet Obama continues to do more to "combat" it.Hmm,wonder why?

Posted by: steevy at September 20, 2013 02:19 PM (9XBK2)

80 Obsidian Owl String in 10 dimensions birthed five different string theories. But when they nicked the 11th from the other folk, their five became one again. And thus was born M.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:20 PM (pDfBu)

81 I thought most people were on board with 11
---
Count me in!

Posted by: Nigel Tufnel at September 20, 2013 02:20 PM (84pE9)

82 All that heat is creating more ice at the poles, by the way.

Well, DUH. That's what happens to water when it gets hot, Reich-winger!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:20 PM (CJjw5)

83 78
I mean, who hasn't heard the term "heat sink"?

Posted by: OCBill at September 20, 2013 02:19 PM (rFipM)

Ahem.

Well...

Posted by: Commander Shepard at September 20, 2013 02:20 PM (tWmgi)

84 Ace, it's Finagler's, not "Finagelers." Loose shit!


Posted by: Jeff B., being That Guy, as usual. at September 20, 2013 02:03 PM (n/+FT)
Thanks for that. I was guessing from the context, but the Wiki explains it better as Finagler's Law. until the very end.

Posted by: Lewis Prothero, the Voice of Reason at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (Vmz3U)

85
54 Look at the war in physics between the Disciples of 10 Dimensions vs Disciples of 11 Dimensions. String vs gravity. The research money was in the 'cool' discipline of String then String became five String theories. Oooppss. So now we have Membrane or M which is String but with 11 dimensions instead of 10.So yeah don't tell me anything about consensus and settled science.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:13 PM (pDfBu)


But the science is settled. And the science says that scientists will whore themselves out to whatever theory politicians want them to say to get more grant money.

Posted by: buzzion at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (LI48c)

86 One doesn't give up their religion lightly.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (DmNpO)

87 Science!!

Posted by: dananjcon at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (wmU4G)

88 The whole AGW theory/bullshit is starting to sound like someone explaining Scientology.

No really...Zenu and spaceships make the world warmer!!

Posted by: Bruce at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (94FsK)

89 Obsidian Owl String in 10 dimensions birthed five
different string theories. But when they nicked the 11th from the other
folk, their five became one again. And thus was born M.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:20 PM (pDfBu)

M standing for Membrane?

Posted by: The Obsidian Owl at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (tWmgi)

90 How do you people do this? The ground is so far away!


Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 02:18 PM (VtjlW)

---------------------------------

Tough being three apples high, isn't it?

Sometimes it's a hard world for the little things.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (CJjw5)

91 Heard the latest?Wind is responsible for the increase of Antarctic ice.Cause,it's getting warmer,so how can there be more ice,right?

Posted by: steevy at September 20, 2013 02:21 PM (9XBK2)

92 NDH, especially when the religion of Climate Change allows them to live like Richelieu.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:22 PM (pDfBu)

93 It's almost like there's a plan proceeding that needs global warming to be fully implemented.

But what do I know? I spent twenty minutes this morning talking to my socks.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at September 20, 2013 02:22 PM (V1ZIU)

94
I'm pretty sure 80% of these Climate Scientists couldn't figure out how to make a 3 minute egg.

Posted by: garrett at September 20, 2013 02:22 PM (L4p+9)

95 "If the theory-- supposedly not just a theory, but a demonstrated fact"

Can we please stop abusing the term "theory?" Electromagnetism is a theory. Gravity is a theory. Evolution is a theory. What we have here with anthropogenic global warming is a hypothesis.

Let's stop giving the Model Worshipers the right to call their Gospel (well, being it's bad news, I guess it would be Baspel?) a theory, when it damn well isn't.

Posted by: JSchuler at September 20, 2013 02:22 PM (ashPd)

96
The heat actually falls to the ocean floor despite that heat rises?

Ok then.

Posted by: the Neighborhood Watch Alliance at September 20, 2013 02:22 PM (sj9LN)

97 All the carbon heat is sucked up by Volcanos inhaling. True fact!

Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at September 20, 2013 02:22 PM (oDCMR)

98 So what they speculate is that the heat falls down to the bottom of the ocean where it can't easily be measured.

Pesky science and logic, didnt they know all heat falls. Thats why you have to hold a marshmallow on the ground next to the fire to get it toasted.

I was wondering why that hot air balloon was all full and rolling around on the ground like a fat kid on a twinkie.

#Globalwarmingfacepalm


Posted by: Everyday Joe at September 20, 2013 02:23 PM (DVC2D)

99 So what they speculate is that the heat falls down to the bottom of the ocean where it can't easily be measured.

Because heat falls, or rises, depending on my computer model. Which has settled the science of course.

Posted by: BuckIV at September 20, 2013 02:23 PM (gedHR)

100 We will proceed with the fuckening.

Posted by: Al Gore at September 20, 2013 02:23 PM (wmU4G)

101 Next threat: Polar Bears instantly frozen by the sudden and dramatic freeze brought about by AGW.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:23 PM (DmNpO)

102 Yes M for membrane. Not Fritz Lang's very disturbing crime movie.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:23 PM (pDfBu)

103 I'm not opposed to some scientists planting temperature monitors on the sea bed, especially in the southern hemisphere. Over the next 30-50,000 years the planet is cycling into a period where the southern hemisphere is receiving more direct sunlight at the expense of the northern. But there's more land mass in the northern, more water in the southern. So it's gonna be interesting to see if that 'extra' sunshine reflects back off the water or is absorbed.

Either way, I'm betting on another Ice Age. It's the safest no-risk bet.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at September 20, 2013 02:24 PM (U2UQk)

104 50 I think we're actually up to 4.0 at this point

Posted by: BornLib at September 20, 2013 02:24 PM (zpNwC)

105 Come on, you people! They've written BOOKS about me!

Posted by: Al Gore at September 20, 2013 02:24 PM (l3vZN)

106 Ok, I've figured out the "honorable" step down.

"Why, golly gee, it looks like the Ocean is magically sucking up the extra heat without itself warming. It's a global warming miracle! Thank the Gods (note, not actual Gods) that we have such an amazing Gaia that has erased our sins! Of course, we'll still need to stop driving cars and stuff because, progress!"

Posted by: The Scientists at September 20, 2013 02:25 PM (ELdpj)

107 Can we please stop abusing the term "theory?" Electromagnetism is a
theory. Gravity is a theory. Evolution is a theory. What we have here
with anthropogenic global warming is a hypothesis.

Posted by: JSchuler

Sorry. You're SOL. There are studies that show we prefer Theory.

It sound more sciency.

Posted by: Bruce at September 20, 2013 02:25 PM (94FsK)

108 Yeah, this is Religion.
Nature abhors a vacuum.
The Western ruling class abandoned Christianity and converted to Environmentalism.

And just like Christianity borrowed a lot of pagan rituals to make the transition easier, Environmentalism crawled into the desiccated husk of Christianity and borrowed a lot of Christian ideas and symbols.

The unspoiled Eden. Original sin. Recycling as penance. Pollution as sin. A priestly caste.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 20, 2013 02:25 PM (ZPrif)

109 I don’t mind government funding of the arts. So it produces crappy art, so what?

But this is why government funding of science should not be tolerated. No matter how much money you pour into it, the value of Pi will not change. But depending on how much money you pour into it, you might be able to get someone to pretend that it’s changed.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at September 20, 2013 02:26 PM (QF8uk)

110 Only way to win against the eco-fascists is to fight.
Kick em till they go down.
Keep kicking till they stay down.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 20, 2013 02:26 PM (ZPrif)

111 Climate change was a boondoggle to put money and power in the hands of the Greenies. Al Gore made a career off this despite being the son and heir of polluter Armand Hammer's tame Senator, Al Gore, Senior. To this day, Al has money earned off Occidental Petroleum of Love canal fame.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes at September 20, 2013 02:26 PM (kXoT0)

112

OUT: Man Made Global Warming

IN: Man Made Sink Holes

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 20, 2013 02:26 PM (IXrOn)

113 You fools! As my army of Tardigrades deploys before your very eyes, you are still too blind to see the DOOM you have reaped.

Bow down before me and witness; Humanity's Final Beclowning is at hand!!

Posted by: Higgs Boson at September 20, 2013 02:27 PM (UzPAd)

114 I don’t mind government funding of the arts. So it produces crappy art, so what?

Err... so "I had to pay for it?"

I mean, if I want crappy art, I can get that for *free* If I'm paying for it, it had better be good art.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:27 PM (/PCJa)

115 Wait. Did the oceans just start absorbing heat these past 15 years or is it that we never had oceans until just 15 years ago. It seems to me 'oceans' would be a constant O = c .

Posted by: polynikes at September 20, 2013 02:27 PM (m2CN7)

116 Can anyone explain to me how the heat in the ocean is falling? I only took up to 200 levels of Physics and Chemistry as a Computer Science guy.

I seem to recall that warm air / water rises rather than falls. Warm water particles are more energetic and therefore carooming off of other particles and slightly less dense. So it rises in relation to the cooler particles that are less energetic and more dense.

So how does the warming fall to the bottom of the ocean where it can't be measured?

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:27 PM (yETln)

117 I mean, if I want crappy art, I can get that for *free* If I'm paying for it, it had better be good art.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est

Or at the very least, nekkid women art

Posted by: Bruce at September 20, 2013 02:28 PM (94FsK)

118
I don't even know if they care about their fascist dreams of un-people control anymore as long as they keep the research funds flowing.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 20, 2013 02:28 PM (sj9LN)

119 Wait. Where do I send all my money now?

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at September 20, 2013 02:28 PM (VLifP)

120

ot

“The American people don’t want the government shut down, and they don’t want Obamacare,” said House Speaker John A. Boehner, who, afterwards, with shaky hands, reached for the flask hidden inside his jacket.


Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 20, 2013 02:28 PM (IXrOn)

121 The unspoiled Eden. Original sin. Recycling as penance. Pollution as sin. A priestly caste.

***

I blame this bitch. And the 70's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLrTPrp-fW8

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:29 PM (DmNpO)

122 And I see that others have already said heat rises.

Great. That's what I get for not wanting to talk to a dead thread.

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:29 PM (yETln)

123 It will be a long, cold winter.

Word.....kinda.

Posted by: House Stark at September 20, 2013 02:29 PM (BrQrN)

124
I have a climate model that has accurately predicted the global climate for the last 12 years. I am not letting anyone see the program because it's mine and you can't have it!

The problem is, the calculation is so complicated and time consuming that my predictions are only completed about a week after the dates in question. Now, if I were to be given...say...a few spare billion dollars, I am sure I could come up with a supercomputer that would be able to speed up the calculations so that I could predict the climate no later that 24 hours after the dates in question.

What's a few billion dollars to a government that creates more than a trillion dollars out of thin air each and every year? Besides, it's for the children!

Posted by: JB1000 at September 20, 2013 02:29 PM (16OL0)

125 Posted by: fluffy at September 20, 2013 02:08 PM (ZNrhs)

Notice they don't plot all the years. Just the one's that are below average. It's almost like they have an agenda or something...

Posted by: Turnip Defense League at September 20, 2013 02:29 PM (O7Q1u)

126 I mean, if I want crappy art, I can get that for *free* If I'm paying for it, it had better be good art.

Yeah, it was mostly a rhetorical flourish.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at September 20, 2013 02:30 PM (QF8uk)

127 I seem to recall that warm air / water rises rather than falls. Warm water particles are more energetic and therefore carooming off of other particles and slightly less dense. So it rises in relation to the cooler particles that are less energetic and more dense.

So how does the warming fall to the bottom of the ocean where it can't be measured?


Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:27 PM (yETln)

--------------------------

Because "consensus", Denialist.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:30 PM (CJjw5)

128 Yeah, this is Religion.

Nature abhors a vacuum.

The Western ruling class abandoned Christianity and converted to Environmentalism.
__________________________

It is a religion - and environmentalism is just one sect of the new religion - The State....

...designed and developed by statists out of the ideas of Rousseau.

Posted by: Athos at September 20, 2013 02:30 PM (SNaPm)

129 90% of Climate Scientologists agree the lose shit is the new standard by which all shit should be measured.

And shit.



Posted by: dananjcon at September 20, 2013 02:30 PM (wmU4G)

130 75 ATC What pisses me off? Now we can't have actual, important, meaningful
discussions about true environmental issues. What do we do with
nuclear waste? What are the dangers of fracking?



Nuclear waste is not an environmental issue. It is a political issue. Fracking is also a political issue and there is no danger unless you are standing next to a liberals head when it explodes. .

Posted by: Vic at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (zZbNF)

131 If you're going to stick a bunch of made up crap in a computer might as well go old school. Notice there is no place for list-of-science!

14. Data and Block Data Statements

The data statement


The data statement is another way to input data that are known
at the time when the program is written. It is similar to the
assignment statement. The syntax is:

data list-of-variables/ list-of-values/, ...


Posted by: DaveA at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (DL2i+)

132 As for "Oceans can't absorb heat because heat rises!" Um... no.

Heat moves from areas of greater energy to areas of lesser energy. This is normally observed as moving "up." Partially this is due to that whole "greater energy" thing making the heat "rise."

But if heat *only* rose, your broiler (on your oven) wouldn't work.

So saying the oceans absorb heat is not, itself, absurd. But if that were happening, oceanic temperatures would rise- which would cause more hurricanes/cyclones and would melt the polar ice faster. Instead, we're seeing the opposite.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (/PCJa)

133 So how does the warming fall to the bottom of the ocean where it can't be measured?

It’s a witch.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (QF8uk)

134 Al Gore is a televangelist. Preaching against the sins of homosexuality while butthumping the pool boy.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (ZPrif)

135 I recall not so long ago that Enviros were proposing capturing carbon and packaging it into big cylinders and, get this, dropping them into the sea. Problem solved - said thee.

Posted by: Chaos, it the other dark meat at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (oDCMR)

136
Loose shit falls to the bottom of the ocean. - Teh Scientists

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (sj9LN)

137 If I want horrible art, there is always the bottom dwellers on DeviantArt.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:32 PM (pDfBu)

138
So the excess heat sinks to the bottom of the deepest parts of the oceans?!? Dang - I must have plumbed my water heater wrong! And here I thought it didn't work well because it was 'energy efficient'...

Posted by: Schroedinger's Cat at September 20, 2013 02:33 PM (oKzPN)

139 One of the things people don't realize is that scientists historically refuse to give up on discredited theories. They're crazy about it.

Linus Pauling -- yes, that Linus Pauling -- viciously attacked people who observed so-called quasicrystals.

Turns out he was horribly wrong, but because he was LINUS PAULING, it took his death for people to accept the evidence.

What climate science is doing is eroding faith in the scientific method itself. A lot of these stories -- like Pauling's -- are not well-known and scientific history only records successes for public consumption. Now the ugliness is out in the open.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 02:33 PM (T0NGe)

140
Your broiler is a contained system (basically) the oceans are not.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 20, 2013 02:33 PM (sj9LN)

141 Interesting fact I learned from History Channel - that can of beer has 13x more radiation in it than the discharge water from a nuclear power plant.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:34 PM (pDfBu)

142 And serious you guys, who the hell is against global warming?

Oh, sure, if you already live in a tropical paradise (and if you do, cfuk you) then maybe it's a bit uncomfortable, but for those of us who have this thing called winter, we'd like to have less of it.

Plus, there's a lot of fertile land in the higher latitudes and a whole goddam continent we're not even using.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 02:35 PM (T0NGe)

143 115 Wait. Did the oceans just start absorbing heat these past 15 years or is it that we never had oceans until just 15 years ago. It seems to me 'oceans' would be a constant O = c .

Posted by: polynikes at September 20, 2013 02:27 PM (m2CN7)


Well I've never seen an ocean myself. I've seen pictures, and video, and...pictures. But I've never experienced an ocean.

I'll bet they didn't exist 15 years ago.

They only happened because of all that melting ice!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at September 20, 2013 02:35 PM (V1ZIU)

144 capturing carbon and packaging it into big cylinders and, get this, dropping them into the sea.

...wouldn't the sea levels rise from the displacement by the cylinders?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 02:35 PM (/kI1Q)

145 What do we do with nuclear waste?

------------------------

Stick it into the hole you dug it out of in the first place. Cover the hole.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:35 PM (CJjw5)

146 It will be a long, cold winter.

♪ It feels like years since it's been here ♫

Posted by: Zombie George Harrison at September 20, 2013 02:36 PM (uYaYO)

147 The sun isn't going down,
The horizon is moving UP!

Let's stand him on his head.....

Thump..

Oh, he's no fun, he fell right over.

Firesign Theatre
Scientific Hypothesis

Posted by: Bruce at September 20, 2013 02:36 PM (94FsK)

148 Finagle's constant:

http://phys.csuchico.edu/ayars/427/Latex/Finagle.pdf

Posted by: Brad at September 20, 2013 02:36 PM (2GsJg)

149 You know what else rises?

Posted by: Drudge's blazing red headline at September 20, 2013 02:36 PM (ligos)

150 Holy cow! I'm watching a clip of Obama on FNC, from a couple of years back, and he had on more makeup than a drag queen.

Vanity run amock.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:36 PM (DmNpO)

151 but for those of us who have this thing called winter, we'd like to have less of it.

No we wouldn't.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 02:36 PM (/kI1Q)

152
Got into an argument with my brother about this through e-mail. Funny thing is, he was a Ron Paul supporter, and about the last person I would have thought of to swallow all of this hook, line, and sinker. But his response to a comment I made could basically be summed up as, "I can't believe you're so deluded to think the skeptics are right. And the hacked e-mails aren't a big deal."

I threw some additional facts at him. Still waiting to see if/how he responds.

Posted by: junior at September 20, 2013 02:37 PM (UWFpX)

153 My wife used to do work on Dark Matter computer models.
I used to joke that she could pretty much build to model to output whatever she wanted.
Universe with a giant teddy bear at the center, sure we've got a model that works for that.

Any sufficiently large/complex model works in pretty much the same way. There are so many moving parts, you can fudge a few to get what you want out of it.
It's why I'm not really a fan of the idea that supercomputers modeling animals and humans is a great way forward for clinical research (despite what PETA claims). We'll just tweak the models to get the output we want, one that really doesn't match reality in any way shape or form.

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 02:37 PM (GaqMa)

154 "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT HEAT BEHIND THE THERMOCLINE!"

Posted by: The Great and Powerful AL. at September 20, 2013 02:38 PM (rVS7U)

155 Well I've never seen an ocean myself. I've seen pictures, and video, and...pictures. But I've never experienced an ocean.
Just the opposite of Waterworld. I bet that would have made a better movie.

Posted by: polynikes at September 20, 2013 02:38 PM (m2CN7)

156 Linus Pauling -- yes, that Linus Pauling -- viciously attacked people who observed so-called quasicrystals.

Turns out he was horribly wrong, but because he was LINUS PAULING, it took his death for people to accept the evidence.


Yeah, well Vulcan is still real.

Posted by: La Verrier at September 20, 2013 02:38 PM (yETln)

157 So...........

The ocean is taking in more of the heat.

But ocean temps are not rising.

Isn't this the model of most diet pill scams?

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 20, 2013 02:38 PM (OWjjx)

158 If they believed the science was settled they would:
(1) Call for defunding of climate science. "Settled" sciences don't need to be studied.
(2) Advocate for building nuclear power plants. If global climate hopenchange is the worst thing ever, then even a little meltdown or two shouldn't even compare to the horrible devastasion.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 02:38 PM (T0NGe)

159 Your broiler is a contained system (basically) the oceans are not.

And the oceans don't heat as efficiently as that crusted salmon with pesto mayo I cook occasionally. But the *earth* is (more or less) a closed system (okay, it's not, but the atmosphere makes it closed-ish) and so (if there weren't some other way for the heat to escape- which there is) the oceans could warm. Yes, even the deep oceans.

My point is in line with what y'all are saying. The primary difference is that people with tenuous grasps on science could read yours as "Fire doesn't melt steel."

It's important (since they refuse to) that we get the science right.

So, to sum up- if the (new) models were right, and the earth were a closed system, the oceans *could* absorb heat. BUT if that happened, we'd experience ancillary effects which we are not only "not experiencing" but are, in fact, experiencing the opposite.

This indicates that the (new) models are wrong, and the earth is *not* a closed system.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:38 PM (/PCJa)

160 When people start starving because "global warming" caused crops to fail due to colder weather, then you wing nuts will be sorry!

Posted by: Eton Cox at September 20, 2013 02:38 PM (q177U)

161 Barbara Boxer....Barbara Boxer...please report to public flogging station #3.


http://tinyurl.com/mw38ojc


You miserable, stupid scrunt.






Posted by: dananjcon at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (wmU4G)

162 AlextheChick - http://studios.amazon.com/projects/10324

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (pDfBu)

163
Credit to :

http://www.wattsupwiththat.com

and help this one get in the U.S. House and help Ted Cruz and Mike Lee and the other tea party Republicans

http://www.katrinaforcongress.com
Katrina is the real deal, courage, self made, will not back down, and smart as hell.

Posted by: apachewhoknows at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (DEg4Y)

164
So how does the warming fall to the bottom of the ocean where it can't be measured?

"Shut up" he explained.

OK all you Settled Science Deniers you, I gotta go get ready for my gig this evening. Y'all have fun and try not to trash the place, 'k?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (0HooB)

165 My grandpa used to tell me that if I didn't fart, I'd stay warmer.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (n8LUb)

166 So are they using an oral or rectal thermometer, because that could be the problem.

Posted by: Snooki at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (r2PLg)

167 As long as a large percentage of the populations believes that Global Warming is what the Smart People think, no facts or evidence will ever change their minds.

Also, you're a bunch of racist, homophobic wimmen-hating gun freaks.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (8ZskC)

168 I was once involved helping a guy who had developed a really amazing invention. It worked, demonstrably, but it remained a bit unclear [i[how it worked, because at first glance it seemed to violate a basic physical law. (The primary reason for this "amazing" violation was simply that no hardcore laboratory had ever fully measured all the forces involved, and once they did the tests, the invention would be shown to fall within existing rules of physics.)

Our problem was that the inventor was hyping this (actually unimportant) mystery effect, and wanted to trumpet that his device "rewrote the laws of physics," which only made him look like a crank. I was brought in to help with PR, and told him to stop it with the crazy talk. The device's proven performance spoke for itself and it didn't need miraculous claims to catch on.

The inventor held his tongue for a while, but it was difficult for him. We needed some credibility for the very reason of getting the attention of some academic labs so that they would do the tests independently and provide proof that the device was physically viable, and didn't require miraculous explanations.

However, at a crucial moment, when asked by a reporter how he could explain the effect, the inventor suddenly backpedaled, poo-pooed his original miraculous claims -- and then ruined everything by suddenly coming up with a different physically impossible explanation as to how the device worked.

At that instant, all his credibility went out the window. I jumped ship.

Anyway, the reason I'm telling this story, is that this moment in Climate Science History is exactly like that moment when the inventor suddenly reversed course and latched on to a completely new dubious claim that contradicted his previous dubious claim. The Alarmists are doing the ol' "change the story to fit the situation" trick, and whenever you do that, your credibility drops to zero.

They're finished. Former sympathizers will start jumping ship, just as I did.

On a related note: Sadly, I just got back from Europe, and everywhere I went, the governments have imposed Climate Hysteria as a sort of ubiquitous social wallpaper; it's everywhere, applied to and mentioned with everything in daily life. The Euro-sheeple just go along with it. No one questions the government's edicts. Sad. A lost cause over there.

Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 02:40 PM (+cx5n)

169
>>It’s a witch.

Global Warming turned me into a Newt.

Posted by: Bruce the Peasant at September 20, 2013 02:40 PM (AHX9J)

170 My grandpa used to tell me that if I didn't fart, I'd stay warmer.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn

Then grandpa never lit one.

Posted by: Bruce at September 20, 2013 02:41 PM (94FsK)

171 SCIENCE!

Posted by: Thomas Dolby at September 20, 2013 02:41 PM (Ks4nX)

172 So how does the warming fall to the bottom of the ocean where it can't be measured?

Well, can you think of another place where it can't be measured?

'Cause it could be there, too.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 02:41 PM (T0NGe)

173 I am no fucking genius, but anybody that claims to understand the interactions and implications of all the variables involved in climate is completely full of shit.

Posted by: The Jackhole at September 20, 2013 02:41 PM (nTgAI)

174 >>> Notice they don't plot all the years. Just the one's that are below average. It's almost like they have an agenda or something

I'm not sure if they do. This is Japan's space agency working with UA, Fairbanks.

Until recently, they had every year plotted back to the beggining of this monitor, but they had to clear it out for readability.

It's data, the enemy of Michael Mann and AlGore.

Posted by: fluffy at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (ZNrhs)

175 Just remember with this heat falling down comes from the same egg-heads who said CFCs traveled into the upper atmosphere to eat the Ozone layer. CFCs are heavier than air and they never explained how that happened. But do we have CFCs in our A/C units anymore?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (pDfBu)

176 Heat sinks. Google it.

Posted by: eleven at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (fsLdt)

177 Those extreme deep sea submersibles have problems with ice at the bottom of the sea. Not water ice, but some sort of methane-nitrogen reaction. Anyway, it ain't hot down there unless you're unlucky enough to land on one of Gaia's smokestacks belching superheated water/gas/mud.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (ZshNr)

178 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:31 PM (/PCJa)

I think the argument goes (and I'm not endorsing it, just trying to give it the fairest reading):
The bottom ocean temperatures are so cold as to effectively "hide" any increase, because we'd see the biggest changes down there, but we can't measure it.
Now you are right, that we'd expect to see some higher temperatures where we can measure, and we really aren't.
Part of the problem is, if memory serves, we really aren't certain how big the oceans are (in a volume sense). We simply haven't mapped so much of the ocean floor.
This of course makes it a great place to "hide" any problems, because we can just claim "oceans must be deeper than we think!"

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (GaqMa)

179 Well, can you think of another place where it can't be measured?

'Cause it could be there, too.


So, Obama's ego is absorbing all the heat.........if so, problem solved.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (OWjjx)

180

Liberals and Paulian nuts cling to static model fallacies forever. Once the narrative is written, it doesn't change, no matter what happens in the real world.

Read ZeroHedge to really see this in action.

Posted by: Meremortal at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (jTKU5)

181 Well, can you think of another place where it can't be measured?



'Cause it could be there, too.



Allow me to explain my "The Moon Acts As A Giant Solar Energy Battery" theory.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 20, 2013 02:42 PM (8ZskC)

182 Interesting fact I learned from History Channel - that can of beer has 13x more radiation in it than the discharge water from a nuclear power plant.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:34 PM (pDfBu)

What about Fukushima Pale Ale ?

Posted by: The Jackhole at September 20, 2013 02:43 PM (nTgAI)

183 Did I miss an especially active hurricane season in the last two years?

----

Have you heard of Hurricane Sandy? The Texas drought? The Colorado floods? And every other weather event of any size? Denier! Denier!!!

Posted by: Chakra at September 20, 2013 02:43 PM (YmPwQ)

184
So what if it turned out the best way to deal with the supposed warmening was to paint all roofs and concrete surfaces green or blue?

Maybe I'm just funnin' with you. Maybe not.

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:43 PM (3ZtZW)

185
Teh Ewok really didn't like this movie, I see.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 20, 2013 02:43 PM (TIIx5)

186 This of course makes it a great place to "hide" any problems, because we can just claim "oceans must be deeper than we think!"

Interesting...........

Posted by: Mob Bosses Now Looking for Used Ocean Liners at September 20, 2013 02:43 PM (OWjjx)

187 Jackhole, I'll let you drink to that...

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (pDfBu)

188
The Sun.
Love it , hate it, shade from it, run from it, lie about it, air condition yourself and write that CO2 a plant food is the danger, still yet, the sun will come up, it will be warmer some 1,000 years cooler some 1,000 years, same with its 17 year, 56 year, 137 year cycles, the ones of Chaco Canyon new about before this bunch of loons made this crap up to raise taxes and spend more of our money on themselves.
Had these Michael Mann types had to work and live out under the sun like others they might have noticed the big hot bright thing in the sky.

They lied.

Posted by: apachewhoknows at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (DEg4Y)

189 Posted by: Snooki at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (r2PLg)

***

Folks make fun of Snooki but she was one of the first "celebrities" to figure out Obama.

When he began taxing tanning salons, she rightly pointed out that it was a "Tax on white people".

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (DmNpO)

190 Well, can you think of another place where it can't be measured?

'Cause it could be there, too.


Loch Ness warming lives in a cave!

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (yETln)

191 The heat may all be hiding at the bottom of the ocean for now, but one day it will return and inflict terrible retribution on all of us.

Posted by: Algore at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (8ZskC)

192 Water behaves strangely around freezing temperature. Purified waters is technically most dense around 4 degreees celsius but rapidly less dense below that temperature and slowly more dense above that temperature.

Ocean water, due to the salt concentration freezes at about -2 degrees celsius and is most dense at about 2 degrees celsius.

The craziest thing about this new hypothesis of rising temperatures being hidden in the ocean depths is that it ignores convection principles.

Ocean temperatures range between 0 degrees celsius (near the ocean's floor) and 20 degrees celsius (surface temperature in the tropics. As hyperdense water approaches freezing temperatures, the water expands and rises through the denser water until it reaches the warmer water above, where it can absorb the heat energy of the water molecules above it. The heat energy ends up dispersing throughout the entire body of liquid. Even in large bodies of water, temperature increases at the lowest levels would also show measurable temperature increases at the higher levels.

TL;DR. If the temperature increase from 1975 through 1998 were suddenly hiding in the ocean depths (where we just can't measure it without another ten billion in additional funding, you guys) you should see incremental increases throughout the rest of the ocean as well.

Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (sBegS)

193 Have you heard of Hurricane Sandy? The Texas drought? The Colorado floods? And every other weather event of any size? Denier! Denier!!!

***

Yes. But those were all Bush's fault.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (DmNpO)

194 What are we supposed to do with all these carbon credits?

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at September 20, 2013 02:45 PM (n8LUb)

195 Look, if your whole plan to essentially regulate energy production to the pointwhere you've achieved effectiveoperational control over the single most important industry in any given society, more important even than health care, then you better believe that fucking ocean is sucking up that fucking immeasurable heat and hiding it like a squirrel with a nut. So shut up, denier.

Posted by: Emil Largo, formerly 2nd in Command of SPECTRE, now a happy Democrat at September 20, 2013 02:45 PM (2jF2B)

196 >>>
Let's stop giving the Model Worshipers the right to call their
Gospel (well, being it's bad news, I guess it would be Baspel?) a
theory, when it damn well isn't.

you're right and that occurred to me as I was writing it but I didn't add the caveat for readability's sake. Let me take another run at that.


Posted by: ace at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (/IWYB)

197


Guess we'll have to cancel the big bash.

Planned Plankton will be happy.

Posted by: plankton at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (IXrOn)

198 "Isn't the whole point of the "Consensus of Scientists" line that
Scientists have come to these conclusions based on nothing but Science?"

You mis-stated the question. It should read: "Isn't the whole point of the "Consensus of Scientists Who Receive a Butt-Load of Government Grant Money As Long As They Toe the Party Line and Blame All Global Warming On Humans So Governments Can Spend Butt-Loads of Taxpayer Money on Their Pet Projects" line that
Scientists have come to these conclusions based on nothing but Science?"

And the answer is, "No."

Posted by: RoadRunner at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (/d0dL)

199 What are we supposed to do with all these carbon credits?

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at September 20, 2013 02:45 PM (n8LUb)


Burn them this cold winter.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (pDfBu)

200 When he began taxing tanning salons, she rightly pointed out that it was a "Tax on white people".

Except she's kinda dreamsicle orange.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (659DL)

201 If the temperature increase from 1975 through 1998 were suddenly hiding in the ocean depths (where we just can't measure it without another ten billion in additional funding, you guys) you should see incremental increases throughout the rest of the ocean as well.

Yeah, that's it.

That's the more sciency version of what I'm saying.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (/PCJa)

202
>>>If the temperature increase from 1975 through 1998 were suddenly hiding in the ocean depths

It would be immeasurable because the ocean heats up extremely slowly, over the course of millenia. Also it would mean the heat has successfully been absorbed by the planet and thus presents no problem at all.

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (3ZtZW)

203 Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 02:40 PM (+cx5n)

Was this the magical anti-gravity device based on high voltage moving through thin wires?
We was eventually determined to be the wire vibrating at such a high frequency it was basically undetectible creating some form of lift. (There might have been some ionization in there too, which is not uncommon for super high voltage systems.)

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (GaqMa)

204 However, at a crucial moment, when asked by a reporter how he could explain the effect, the inventor suddenly backpedaled, poo-pooed his original miraculous claims -- and then ruined everything by suddenly coming up with a different physically impossible explanation as to how the device worked.

---------------------------

Were you working for the whackadoo that trotted out his "cold fusion" device, draped with sheets like fucking Willy Wonka's secret Gobstopper machine?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:47 PM (CJjw5)

205 I think the UN Climate council should be forced to hold their summit in Greenland.

Posted by: polynikes at September 20, 2013 02:47 PM (m2CN7)

206 What pisses me off? Now we can't have actual, important, meaningful
discussions about true environmental issues. What do we do with
nuclear waste? What are the dangers of fracking? How can we move to
renewable resources without also having to strip mine off the tops of
mountains to get at the heavy metals necessary to make the capacitors to
allow meaningful transfer of the energy generated?


Stuff it in Harry Reid's piehole and bury him at Yucca Mtn.
None.
We don't need renewables. Just get to the asteroids before we choke and use Earth for a park.


Posted by: DaveA at September 20, 2013 02:47 PM (DL2i+)

207 Anybody who thought that global warming ever had anything to do with anything other than World Socialism, raise your hands.

Posted by: rickl at September 20, 2013 02:48 PM (zoehZ)

208 Well, can you think of another place where it can't be measured?



'Cause it could be there, too.



Right behind Barky's school records.

Posted by: real joe at September 20, 2013 02:48 PM (rO/4E)

209 "and now you add to this that the Oceans might have some Mystery Properties you were hitherto entirely ignorant of?"

Yes. It's called the heat capacity of water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity). Give up on the global warming already. You sound like the idiot Intelligent Design folks who pounce on every little discrepancy in evolution. Concentrate on the solutions being offered to climate change -- that's where the battles should be fought.

Posted by: Pigilito at September 20, 2013 02:48 PM (yw6Yn)

210 175 I think that had to do more with Dupont running out of patent time on Freon and needing to get their replacement accepted.

Posted by: steevy at September 20, 2013 02:48 PM (9XBK2)

211
Heat moves from areas of greater energy to areas of lesser energy. This is normally observed as moving "up." Partially this is due to that whole "greater energy" thing making the heat "rise."
Um....Bullshit.
Granted, there will be some transfer via conduction, but the major operating mode of a fluid is to behave adiabatically, which is purely density driven.
By the way, broilers work via radiation.

Posted by: The Tardigradologist at September 20, 2013 02:48 PM (QM5S2)

212 Loch Ness warming lives in a cave!
Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:44 PM (yETln)


You've got it. That's what this is.

Loch Ness Warming.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 02:49 PM (T0NGe)

213 I looked back at the coal mine and was turned into a pillar of salt.

But I got better.

Posted by: eleven at September 20, 2013 02:49 PM (fsLdt)

214
*clambers up on soap box*



*stares around*



How do you people do this? The ground is so far away!


You know you're getting old when you worry the dancer could fall off the stripper pole and get hurt.

Posted by: DaveA at September 20, 2013 02:49 PM (DL2i+)

215 207
Anybody who thought that global warming ever had anything to do with anything other than World Socialism, raise your hands.


(raises hand). It's also about the grant money. Sweet, sweet grant money. Scare the rubes and rake it in.

Posted by: Michael Mann at September 20, 2013 02:49 PM (bKA83)

216 http://www.katrinaforcongress.com
Katrina is the real deal, courage, self made, will not back down, and smart as hell.


Posted by: apachewhoknows at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (DEg4Y)
**Bonus points for being teh hawt.
brb

Posted by: dananjcon at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM (wmU4G)

217 >>>TL;DR. If the temperature increase from 1975 through 1998 were suddenly
hiding in the ocean depths (where we just can't measure it without
another ten billion in additional funding, you guys) you should see
incremental increases throughout the rest of the ocean as well.

Magic Water You Guys.


Posted by: Science at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM (/IWYB)

218
>>>Were you working for the whackadoo that trotted out his "cold fusion" device, draped with sheets like fucking Willy Wonka's secret Gobstopper machine?

I found a carbeurator in my dad's garage that got an average automobile 72mph but GM stoled it. It didn't bother me because it only fit on 1971 Impalas anyway.

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM (3ZtZW)

219 The heat is not going into the ocean to hide. It's going out through the Stargate.

Posted by: forest at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM (stMuz)

220 Off wee tiny beastie sock.

Posted by: RoladTHTG at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM (QM5S2)

221 If the earth is a closed system, then I guess we don't need the sun's input anymore. We can just turn that sumbitch off and the temperature will stay just where it is, unless we produce more carbon, in which case it will skyrocket.

Nope, absolutely no chance of the earth turning into a lifeless, frozen chunk of mud and ice eight minutes after the sun goes out.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM (CJjw5)

222 Yes. It's called the heat capacity of water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity). Give up on the global warming already. You sound like the idiot Intelligent Design folks who pounce on every little discrepancy in evolution. Concentrate on the solutions being offered to climate change -- that's where the battles should be fought.

Wait wait wait. So you're here to tell us that this "mystery property" of water that the climate models don't account for is grade school science? And we're idiots for assuming the climate scientists should have known that and accounted for it?

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM (yETln)

223 Pigilito needs to bring his shine box next time.

Posted by: Turnip Defense League at September 20, 2013 02:51 PM (O7Q1u)

224 "Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted, saying a time span of 10 to 15 years was misleading in the context of climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries"
Shouldn't we then wait decades or centuries before we "conclude" that global warming has occurred. These guys don't even know when they are undercutting their whole argument for action even as they desperately rationalize the failure of their models

.

Posted by: Brian at September 20, 2013 02:51 PM (Hd5n8)

225 Granted, there will be some transfer via conduction, but the major operating mode of a fluid is to behave adiabatically, which is purely density driven.

That's what I said, density.

/I know you're talking to someone else, just pointing it out.

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:51 PM (yETln)

226 ted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 02:41 PM (T0NGe)

Can we measure the earth's radiation of heat yet?
It should have some.
Global warming (IIRC) is premised off the idea that it slows down our "dumping" of the energy we get from the sun back into space.
They've chosen the indirect method of measuring it (via temperature) you'd think someone would have figured out a way to use satellites to quantify the radiation FROM earth by this point.

My guess is they have, and it's relatively unchanged.
So they don't report it.

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 02:51 PM (GaqMa)

227 Wait,

Did I miss the continuing resolution ACA vote thread?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 20, 2013 02:51 PM (ligos)

228 Entropy MFs

Posted by: The Jackhole at September 20, 2013 02:52 PM (nTgAI)

229
If you wanted to get the most accurate measurement of a huge body of fluid to test the 'heat sink' concept, it would not be near the surface. Even at, say the midpoint, you'd be susceptible to ocean currents, or a large warm whale swimming by -- I'm looking at you Rosie O. You're looking for a trend, so the area of the ocean where the tremendous pressure of a huge quantity of water over top of the gauge would slow the movement of water to a microscopic crawl. So you need a deep trench, in both the northern and southern hemisphere, nowhere near the 'rim of fire'.

Where's my grant money bitches?

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at September 20, 2013 02:52 PM (U2UQk)

230 203

Was this the magical anti-gravity device based on high voltage moving through thin wires?
We was eventually determined to be the wire vibrating at such a high frequency it was basically undetectible creating some form of lift. (There might have been some ionization in there too, which is not uncommon for super high voltage systems.)
Posted by: tsrblke


Good guess, but no -- that wasn't the invention I helped out with. Due to nondisclosure agreements I signed, unfortunately, I can't reveal which one it was. You probably never heard of it anyway, because the guy (as I had warned) was indeed labeled a kook after he started making new claims, and his personal reputation sullied the reputation of the device, and his invention has never been developed -- despite being in fact truly amazing and potentially game-changing.

Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 02:53 PM (+cx5n)

231 Classic rant, thanks Ace!

Posted by: Caliban at September 20, 2013 02:53 PM (DrC22)

232 You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

------

Shit is work boring as hell today. 2 more hours.

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't a-get you then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

Merle Travis

Posted by: RWC Chalupa Batman at September 20, 2013 02:53 PM (fWAjv)

233 I found a carbeurator in my dad's garage that got an average automobile 72mph but GM stoled it. It didn't bother me because it only fit on 1971 Impalas anyway.

Does it use magnets to "align the gasoline molecules"? I think that one should work!

/snark

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:53 PM (yETln)

234 My guess is they have, and it's relatively unchanged.

Actually, I think Watt's Up With That had something about that some time ago (more than a year, IIRC), and, yes: we can measure the radiation (well, we can look at different wavelengths and see it and then MATH), and... then I don't remember.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at September 20, 2013 02:54 PM (/PCJa)

235 @222 No, bonhomme, I was responding to Ace, who seems to have missed that day from grade school science.

Posted by: Pigilito at September 20, 2013 02:54 PM (yw6Yn)

236 Ot, out on a branch, political climate gate.

Identity: Foundation for Constructive Interaction

http://tinyurl.com/kcqcvd6

"Why Iran seeks constructive engagement"
By Hassan Rouhani, President of Iran
Washington Post
Published: September 19, 2013

[excerpts]

We must pay attention to the complexities of the issues at hand to solve them.

A constructive approach to diplomacy doesn’t mean relinquishing one’s rights. It means engaging with one’s counterparts, on the basis of equal footing and mutual respect, to address shared concerns and achieve shared objectives.

The unilateral approach, which glorifies brute force and breeds violence, is clearly incapable of solving issues we all face, such as terrorism and extremism.

My approach to foreign policy seeks to resolve these issues by addressing their underlying causes. We must work together to end the unhealthy rivalries and interferences that fuel violence and drive us apart. We must also pay attention to the issue of Identity as a key driver of tension in, and beyond, the Middle East.

At their core, the vicious battles in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are over the nature of those countries’ identities and their consequent roles in our region and the world. The centrality of identity extends to the case of our peaceful nuclear energy program.

Without comprehending the role of Identity, many issues we all face will remain unresolved.

In a climate where much of foreign policy is a direct function of domestic politics, focusing on what one doesn’t want is an easy way out of difficult conundrums for many world leaders. Expressing what one does want requires more courage.

After 10 years of back-and-forth, what all sides don’t want in relation to our nuclear file is clear. The same dynamic is evident in the rival approaches to Syria.

This approach can be useful for efforts to prevent cold conflicts from turning hot. But to move beyond impasses, whether in relation to Syria, my country’s nuclear program or its relations with the United States, we need to aim higher. Rather than focusing on how to prevent things from getting worse, we need to think — and talk — about how to make things better. To do that, we all need to muster the courage to start conveying what we want — clearly, concisely and sincerely — and to back it up with the political will to take necessary action. This is the essence of my approach to constructive interaction.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 20, 2013 02:54 PM (MhA4j)

237 Were you working for the whackadoo that trotted out his "cold fusion" device, draped with sheets like fucking Willy Wonka's secret Gobstopper machine?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff


Nope -- sorry. See comment #230.

Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 02:54 PM (+cx5n)

238 Good guess, but no -- that wasn't the invention I helped out with. Due to nondisclosure agreements I signed, unfortunately, I can't reveal which one it was. You probably never heard of it anyway, because the guy (as I had warned) was indeed labeled a kook after he started making new claims, and his personal reputation sullied the reputation of the device, and his invention has never been developed -- despite being in fact truly amazing and potentially game-changing.


Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 02:53 PM (+cx5n)

--------------------------------

It was Dr. Emmet Brown, wasn't it? What did you expect him to do - admit that he stole plutonium from the Libyans? They kill people for that shit.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 20, 2013 02:54 PM (CJjw5)

239 >>> 209 Still waiting for that evolution to be proved.... But I'll talk to you about it personally some day.

Posted by: God at September 20, 2013 02:55 PM (n8LUb)

240 Temperatures aren't rising and that is an empiraical fact. But the global warmists claim they are because their models can't be wrong.

Who are the deniers now?

Posted by: JackStraw at September 20, 2013 02:55 PM (g1DWB)

241
>>>Does it use magnets to "align the gasoline molecules"?

You bastid! Give it back!

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:55 PM (3ZtZW)

242 So what they speculate is that the heat falls down to the bottom of the ocean where it can't easily be measured. Like it winds up sequestered beneath a thermocline or something.
=========
I remember it in science class like it was yesterday.

Over and over they told us: Heat sinks and cold rises.

Everybody knows that.

Posted by: RoyalOil at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (VjL9S)

243 Would this be a 'good' time to post ICP's little song about magnets being magic?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (pDfBu)

244 Good guess, but no -- that wasn't the invention I helped out with. Due to nondisclosure agreements I signed, unfortunately, I can't reveal which one it was. You probably never heard of it anyway, because the guy (as I had warned) was indeed labeled a kook after he started making new claims, and his personal reputation sullied the reputation of the device, and his invention has never been developed -- despite being in fact truly amazing and potentially game-changing.

I'm going to leave this piece of paper on the table. When I come back I will clean up my trash. If someone were to write a patent number on that piece of paper, I'd be very surprised and wouldn't keep that piece of paper at all.

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (yETln)

245 Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 02:53 PM (+cx5n)

Heh, I did a information research project on a transplant anti-rejection drug at one point, researching it's history, some chaos surrounding it, etc. in newspapers (and other public documents).

The whole thing involved some embezzlement, possibly running afoul of the FDA bans on selling experimental drugs, consent problems.
It seemed to work really well (across hundreds to thousands of patients), and was surprisingly inexpensive. But never made it to market officially. I think by the end it was so "toxic" (metaphorically speaking) no one wanted to pick the project up and run with it.

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (GaqMa)

246 AlextheChick - http://studios.amazon.com/projects/10324
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:39 PM (pDfBu)



*shifty eyes* I am not involved in any such project. *shifty eyes*


Soooooo. If the oceans are getting warmer, does that mean the megalodons hiding below the thermal barrier are going to swim up to the surface? Because that would be awesome.


Oh. Did I say thermal barrier? Because that would mean that parts of the ocean are warmer than other parts, even really deep down, which would imply that we know fuckall about how the oceans work.


You know, things like why are there lakes underneath the ocean.


http://youtu.be/KzUEr7uMnXU

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (VtjlW)

247 I found a carbeurator in my dad's garage that got an
average automobile 72mph but GM stoled it. It didn't bother me because
it only fit on 1971 Impalas anyway.

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:50 PM


Didja find the box of little green pills, too? Just throw one into a bucket of water, and presto! you gots a bucket o' high-test!

Only problem is: the li'l green pills make leaded gas, and that's a no-no.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 20, 2013 02:57 PM (kaGpp)

248
That's what I said, density.
Yeah, but did you say 'adiabatically'?
Because bonus points!

Posted by: RoladTHTG at September 20, 2013 02:58 PM (QM5S2)

249 See you dummies, Barakahnaten has halted glodal warming.

Posted by: The Jackhole at September 20, 2013 02:58 PM (nTgAI)

250 dammit

Posted by: RolandTHTG at September 20, 2013 02:58 PM (QM5S2)

251
>>>You know, things like why are there lakes underneath the ocean.

And beneath those? R'lyeh.

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:58 PM (3ZtZW)

252 Still waiting for that evolution to be proved.... But I'll talk to you about it personally some day.

***

I'm a Christian yet I believe that there is such a thing as small 'e' evolution. I believe in Creationism first, but do believe that creatures evolve over time.

Still, I believe it is God who deems it so.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:59 PM (DmNpO)

253 251 And beneath that,The Burrowers in the Earth.

Posted by: steevy at September 20, 2013 02:59 PM (9XBK2)

254 I never said you had any input to that story AlextheChick. I just think you could do a far better story.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:59 PM (pDfBu)

255 See you dummies, Barakahnaten has halted glodal warming.

***

Imagine the pyramid we'll have to build for that bastard.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:59 PM (DmNpO)

256 Affordable Lakefront property! Buy now!

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 20, 2013 03:00 PM (ZshNr)

257

>>>Only problem is: the li'l green pills make leaded gas, and that's a no-no.

Fkn crackpot 70s-era inventors! Here, I'll mail 'em to ya

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 03:00 PM (3ZtZW)

258 It would be immeasurable because the ocean heats up extremely slowly, over the course of millenia. Also it would mean the heat has successfully been absorbed by the planet and thus presents no problem at all.
Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 02:46 PM (3ZtZW)

You would expect that the ocean deep level temperatures would be higher since they would be right next to the million degree earth core. Am I right or what?

Posted by: Al Gore at September 20, 2013 03:00 PM (m2CN7)

259 240 Temperatures aren't rising and that is an empirical fact. But the global warmists claim they are because their models can't be wrong.

Who are the deniers now?

Posted by: JackStraw at September 20, 2013 02:55 PM (g1DWB)

Global Warmer stress is rising. It feels hotter when your tension rises. And if they overheat, it's your fault for making them uncomfortable. /let the good times roll/

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 20, 2013 03:00 PM (MhA4j)

260 I'll believe in the magic hidden heat beltway until someone discovers a variable heat source that accounts for all the observed temperature variations. They won't, because that would have to be huge, on an order of magnitude the size of our own sun.

Posted by: rdbrewer at September 20, 2013 03:00 PM (Iyg03)

261 I'm a Christian yet I believe that there is such a thing as small 'e' evolution. I believe in Creationism first, but do believe that creatures evolve over time.

Still, I believe it is God who deems it so.


Same. If you want some really wacky un-scientific theory, try abiogenesis.

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 03:01 PM (yETln)

262 Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (VtjlW)

Water does some fucking weird things when under pressure (and when carrying high loads of dissolved materials.)

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 03:01 PM (GaqMa)

263 I never said you had any input to that story AlextheChick. I just think you could do a far better story.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 02:59 PM (pDfBu)


Thank you. Yes, I mean that sincerely. Yes, I'm capable of sincerity.


Hmmmm. I just said to a co-worker that I'm a weak and fragile soul. She burst out laughing. Hmmmm.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 03:01 PM (VtjlW)

264 One word: fugacity.

Posted by: flounder at September 20, 2013 03:01 PM (Kkt/i)

265 Could there be a giant hole at the bottom of the ocean that the hot water falls into? Until we can prove that such a hole does not exist, it seems like the most likely explanation.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at September 20, 2013 03:01 PM (+lsX1)

266
>>>You would expect that the ocean deep level temperatures would be higher since they would be right next to the million degree earth core. Am I right or what?

The core! pshaw thats the ovens run by the Derro-Nazis at the center of the Earth.

Posted by: Bigby's Trigger Finger at September 20, 2013 03:02 PM (3ZtZW)

267 Love how they choose a scale that fits the results they want. If the last 15 years had had heating then, by golly, it would be proof positive the End was Nigh! We are looking at a tiny dot at the end of the geologic time scale of billions of years and when AGW bed wetters say it's hotter than Evah! They are full of epic fail. The proper response is a hearty "Blow it out your Ass, Poindexter!" followed by a wedgie.

Posted by: Mr. Feverhead at September 20, 2013 03:02 PM (SzAZ7)

268 LOL AlextheChick. Either they know you too well or not well enough.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 20, 2013 03:02 PM (pDfBu)

269 Only problem is: the li'l green pills make leaded gas, and that's a no-no.


Posted by: MrScribbler at September 20, 2013 02:57 PM (kaGpp)

----
Oh.Shit.
As a general contractor I have HAD IT UP TO HERE with hearing about lead.The EPA can go fuck itself.

Posted by: fixerupper at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (nELVU)

270 Allan Brauer, the communications chair for the Democratic Party of Sacramento, Calif., told an aide to Sen. Ted Cruz (R., Tex.) on Friday that he hoped her children “die from debilitating, painful and incurable diseases


These are the fuckers we are supposed to find common ground with?

Posted by: RWC Chalupa Batman at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (fWAjv)

271 Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (VtjlW)


I still recall those dpud days. Miss you little one.

Posted by: tangonine at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (x3YFz)

272 So the ocean is sucking down so much manmade heat it's even sucking down the natural heat that's supposed to be there with it?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (wmHeP)

273 Jason Priestly lives in a castle? Huh. He must've saved his money from 90210.

Posted by: Notorius LIV at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (Ks4nX)

274 Climate is too complicated to model with the knowledge we have now, except in the crudest of ways, and yet we are intended to essentially halt the economy for a protracted span of years based solely on this data.

Many climate models cannot successfully predict the data we already have -- that is, when they are fed initial conditions from, say, 100 years ago, when projected forward their predictions do not match the actual data. That's not good.

My objection is not to studying climate -- it's a good, worthy area of study. I don't object to keeping air and water clean and I don't object to sounding the alarm if we are having an impact on the planet that could be deleterious to us. I DO object to being asked to hand the economic future of the West over to unelected bureaucrats based on models that can't even predict the past.

It's not the science that bothers me, it's what they want to do with the science: redistribution and greater bureaucratic totalitarianism.

Posted by: joncelli at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (RD7QR)

275 Imagine the pyramid we'll have to build for that bastard.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 02:59 PM (DmNpO)



Now come on. Everyone knows that the aliens did it.


Would that hair lie to you? No. No, it would not.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (VtjlW)

276 ...until someone discovers a variable heat source that accounts for all the observed temperature variations. They won't, because that would have to be huge, on an order of magnitude the size of our own sun.

That is never not funny.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (T0NGe)

277 Hmmmm. I just said to a co-worker that I'm a weak and fragile soul. She burst out laughing. Hmmmm.

***

Well, you do require a great deal of coddling to protect your delicate sensibilities. You little daffodil.

Bless yer heart.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 03:04 PM (DmNpO)

278 "...a time span of 10 to 15 years was misleading in the context of climate change"

True. But then why the panic over just 15 years of warming?

70's : OMG its cooling! We're doomed.
80's 90's : Life continues.
00's : OMG its warming! We're doomed.

Posted by: John T at September 20, 2013 03:04 PM (/kExG)

279 251 >>>You know, things like why are there lakes underneath the ocean.And beneath those? R'lyeh.

Silly, its turtles all the way down.

Posted by: Brian at September 20, 2013 03:05 PM (Hd5n8)

280 Well, you do require a great deal of coddling to protect your delicate sensibilities. You little daffodil.

Bless yer heart.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 20, 2013 03:04 PM (DmNpO)



Fragile flower of fragileness, I am.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 03:06 PM (VtjlW)

281 @278: Because the final stage of neo-feudalism is convincing the Middle Class to give up modern conveniences, like cars and electricity. And since a lot more of those conveniences were invented in the 80s and 90s they had to make a harder push.

Posted by: Ian s. at September 20, 2013 03:06 PM (B/VB5)

282 Flannigan's Finagling Factor: That quantity which when added to, subtracted from, multiplied by, or divided into the answer you got gives you the answer you should've gotten.
From "Murphy's Law and Other Reasons Why Things Go Wrong"

Posted by: Help Isn't Coming at September 20, 2013 03:06 PM (rz0yi)

283 Dont forget...... Al Gore told us 2013 would be the year that Antarctic ice would disappear.

Actual result: ALL TIME HIGH.

Posted by: fixerupper at September 20, 2013 03:06 PM (nELVU)

284 Barakahnaten's Court of Jesters

By 2013, the polar ice caps will have melted, causing the oceans to rise and flood the world.



Budget? I don't need no budget in order to spend more tax dollars than all previous administrations combined. Increased Debt won't increase debt.

//Close the Government. Give us a break.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 20, 2013 03:06 PM (MhA4j)

285
Barakahnaten has halted glodal warming.


So glad this is finally catching on.

Posted by: garrett at September 20, 2013 03:07 PM (L4p+9)

286 Why something seems to happening here...
http://tinyurl.com/m375dkz
Who keeps moving these signs along the side of
the road? Why?

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at September 20, 2013 03:07 PM (U2UQk)

287 You have to admit that the influence of social science is profound. It used to be that only social science had the paradigm that when the data clashed with the hypothesis, the data was wrong.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 03:07 PM (T0NGe)

288 Looks like they may need to pivot back to the hole in the ozone layer.

Posted by: Havedash at September 20, 2013 03:07 PM (F0WNa)

289 245 Heh, I did a information research project on a transplant anti-rejection drug at one point, researching it's history, some chaos surrounding it, etc. in newspapers (and other public documents).

The whole thing involved some embezzlement, possibly running afoul of the FDA bans on selling experimental drugs, consent problems.
It seemed to work really well (across hundreds to thousands of patients), and was surprisingly inexpensive. But never made it to market officially. I think by the end it was so "toxic" (metaphorically speaking) no one wanted to pick the project up and run with it.
Posted by: tsrblke


That reminds of of what happened in late '45/early '46 when the US occupation forces were governing Japan. US military intelligence found the research papers that the Japanese doctors had written based on their beyond-immoral human experiments with infectious diseases. (As you may remember, the Japs intentionally infected Chinese, Dutch, Korean and other POWs with a variety of lethal diseases -- in many case several fatal diseases at once -- so as to study and monitor the infections' progress. Sure, the unwitting "patients" died horrible agonizing deaths, but that's science for ya!). Anyway, the US reviewed these papers and realized that they in fact contained extremely useful data that could never have been obtained in ethical circumstances. The question: What to do?

One US faction argued that the info in the papers could be used to save lives, possibly millions of lives, and it would therefore be unethical not to release the research to the scientific community. Another US faction argued that the research was morally tainted at its root, and that by releasing it we would essentially be retroactively giving our stamp of approval for how the data was obtained.

In the end, the second faction won out, and the research was destroyed, and never released. (Or more likely "destroyed," i.e. hidden away somewhere deep in the secret archives.)

Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 03:08 PM (+cx5n)

290 Al Gore told us 2013 would be the year that Antarctic ice would disappear.

***

Algore also told us that he "took the initiative in creating the internet," which by the way is totally different from claiming he invented the internet. Somehow. Or so I'm told.

Posted by: cool arrow at September 20, 2013 03:08 PM (WMsq+)

291 watching these idiots on MSNBC right now. I put on my HAZMAT suit and wade into the shit bucket but today is epic.

They've got some idiot wench with WAY too much rouge on (Like clown makeup) and Terou? Tibedeux? Toolow? whatever that idiot half black guy's name is. Then the bring on 20-somethings that think they Know Everything(tm) about Everything.

I vacillate between killing kittens and crying, but I'll hang here for another hour.

I need a team to decon me at the other side. Vacuum chamber. Use an acid wash.

Posted by: tangonine at September 20, 2013 03:08 PM (x3YFz)

292 I joked about Al Gore, Nobel Laureate and his several million degrees gaffe but its really very sad that something like that doesn't immediately disqualify him from ever uttering another word about anything to do with climate change or science.

Posted by: polynikes at September 20, 2013 03:08 PM (m2CN7)

293 Barakahnaten has halted goat warming.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 20, 2013 03:09 PM (MhA4j)

294 Have these Climate Change people come up with a null hypothesis yet?

If not, it's not Science. It's not even science.

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 03:09 PM (yETln)

295 262 Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 02:56 PM (VtjlW) Water does some fucking weird things when under pressure (and when carrying high loads of dissolved materials.)

Did someone request a "high load"?

Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at September 20, 2013 03:09 PM (Hd5n8)

296 Posted by: panzernashorn at September 20, 2013 03:06 PM (MhA4j)

I told the Dally Caller they should write an article on misuse of analogies by Obama.
This isn't like "stopping payment on your truck you bought."
It's more like saying your lifestyle runs so large you maxed out your credit card.
So you're going to get another.
OOOOOORRRR. You could not get another, trim down to what you can afford to live on with cash.
Or you can split the baby, get another card to hold you over while you make structural changes.
The DC's response "It's [raising the debt ceiling] the right thing to do."

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 03:09 PM (GaqMa)

297 When did a decade and a half fall off the decades scale?

I need a new calendar.

Posted by: Mr. Feverhead at September 20, 2013 03:09 PM (SzAZ7)

298 Sunshine go away today , I don't feel much like warming.

Posted by: The Jackhole at September 20, 2013 03:10 PM (nTgAI)

299
...until someone discovers a variable heat source that accounts for
all the observed temperature variations. They won't, because that would
have to be huge, on an order of magnitude the size of our own sun.



That is never not funny.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM


I've seen the ads on teh teevee for that Mitsubishi heating/cooling gizmo. Somebody already done discovered it, and it's "smaller than a conventional a/c unit"!

So: eleventy!!11!!

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 20, 2013 03:10 PM (kaGpp)

300 I joked about Al Gore, Nobel Laureate and his several million degrees
gaffe but its really very sad that something like that doesn't
immediately disqualify him from ever uttering another word about
anything to do with climate change or science.


***

At the very least you'd think he would've been embarrassed, just on a personal level. But not even that.

Posted by: cool arrow at September 20, 2013 03:10 PM (WMsq+)

301 Dont forget...... Al Gore told us 2013 would be the year that Antarctic ice would disappear.

Actual result: ALL TIME HIGH.
Posted by: fixerupper at September 20, 2013 03:06 PM (nELVU)



Now, now, let's be fair, the warmenistas have discovered a new constant. The Gore Effect.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 03:10 PM (VtjlW)

302 That's what I said, density.


Last night, Darth Vader came down from Planet Vulcan and told
me that if I didn't take Lorraine out, that he'd melt my brain.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 03:10 PM (/kI1Q)

303 The hottening of the ocean depths is even more frightful than the most dire of previous global warming predictions. We are being cooked from the inside out, like a G.I. Joe in a microwave.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at September 20, 2013 03:11 PM (+lsX1)

304 Great. Now can someone explain to me how there's been no warming for 15 years and yet every single year has been wildly, hysterically touted as either the first, second or third "HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD"......?

Posted by: MegaIndependento at September 20, 2013 03:11 PM (uvaJ1)

305 Allan Brauer, the communications chair for the Democratic Party of Sacramento, Calif., told an aide to Sen. Ted Cruz (R., Tex.) on Friday that he hoped her children “die from debilitating, painful and incurable diseases These are the fuckers we are supposed to find common ground with?
Posted by: RWC Chalupa Batman at September 20, 2013 03:03 PM (fWAjv)

The good news is that Ted Cruz is becoming a kind of instant Who Can We Trust? test. Those who hate him also hate us. Those who like him like us, and can be trusted. He's also a very good RINO finder. Representative Peter King(Asshole - New York) absolutelyloathes him, for example. So does John McCain.

If Cruz runs for president, I'm voting for him.

Posted by: Emil Largo, formerly 2nd in Command of SPECTRE, now a happy Democrat at September 20, 2013 03:11 PM (2jF2B)

306 On second thought, let's not move the Capital to Amarna....it's a silly place.

Posted by: Barakhenaten I at September 20, 2013 03:11 PM (L4p+9)

307 Posted by: zombie at September 20, 2013 03:08 PM (+cx5n)

Yeah, nothing here was on the level of so unethical the data couldn't be used (even the embezzlement was arguably of a "technical variety" depending on how you spun it.)
But at that point, with the FDA demanding changes to the program, the chain of command in shambles, it just sorta died, and no pharma company picked it up (although I said it was cheap, I mean that in a relative sense, it made the university a pretty penny.)

Posted by: tsrblke at September 20, 2013 03:11 PM (GaqMa)

308 I'm going to need to see our weatherman get the 5 day forecast right. Lets say 3 degrees either direction as margin of error. They can do that for a week straight, then I'll entertain the idea that anyone can model climate for generations.

Posted by: Dave S. at September 20, 2013 03:11 PM (AoY8i)

309 Looks like they may need to pivot back to the hole in the ozone layer.

Posted by: Havedash at September 20, 2013 03:07 PM (F0WNa)

-----
Great. Just fricken great. Like I need another set of refrigerant gauges for whatever DuPont comes up with to solve "The Return of the Hole in the Ozone - The En-Profiting"

Posted by: fixerupper at September 20, 2013 03:12 PM (nELVU)

310 Wait, wait...you mean the government lobbied scientists to produce politically useful data, and that the government paid scientists to produce these reports?

I don't believe it.

Posted by: Lewis Prothero, the Voice of Reason at September 20, 2013 03:12 PM (hcAXF)

311 Last night, Darth Vader came down from Planet Vulcan and told
me that if I didn't take Lorraine out, that he'd melt my brain.


Can I have your stuff?

Posted by: bonhomme at September 20, 2013 03:12 PM (yETln)

312 and Terou? Tibedeux? Toolow? whatever that idiot half black guy's name is.

Mr. Neblett?

He's killed more black children than any of us have, btw.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at September 20, 2013 03:12 PM (/kI1Q)

313 Have these Climate Change people come up with a null hypothesis yet?

“If I start turning in papers that question extreme man-made climate change, I will receive null funding.”

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at September 20, 2013 03:12 PM (QF8uk)

314 We all live in a Yellow Submarine

Posted by: Aliens who rape at September 20, 2013 03:12 PM (vpa+W)

315 Now can someone explain to me how there's been no warming for 15 years
and yet every single year has been wildly, hysterically touted as either
the first, second or third "HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD"......?

***

Words mean whatever leftists want them to mean. They think "homophobia" means "fear of homos."

Posted by: cool arrow at September 20, 2013 03:13 PM (WMsq+)

316 If someone were to write a patent number on that piece of paper

There's a 70yo con man down here in one of the retirement communities that's been trying to pitch what amounts to a perpetual motion engine.

I was called as a consulting engineer to help "finish" the device. I looked at its guts and saw the fraud immediately...and made a hasty exit.

He had regen generators hooked to the peripheral of a normal'ish motor that would capture some small measure of power and store it like a flywheel. The rotating mass of the regens was worth far more in smoothing than any miniscule bit of power they generated.

It was interesting to see an old school con man in operation though. It was more entertaining than going to the movies.


Posted by: Purp at September 20, 2013 03:13 PM (9MLX+)

317 The hottening of the ocean depths is even more frightful than the most
dire of previous global warming predictions. We are being cooked from
the inside out, like a G.I. Joe in a microwave.


We may not feel the heat or be able to measure it, but can you imagine the volcano when it does happen? It'll be apocalyptic. We'd better collect some tax just in case.

Posted by: MegaIndependento at September 20, 2013 03:14 PM (uvaJ1)

318 Thanks for the undersea lake link, AtC. Something new to chew on.

Grows on methane leaks - implies we could use that to find and tap natural resources, but that probably also destroys the ecosystem that's grown on it. =/

Posted by: USB Port at September 20, 2013 03:14 PM (v3pYe)

319 Stupid denialists, of course warm water sinks and cold water rises. That's why ice floats. Duh.

Posted by: Lefty McMoonbat at September 20, 2013 03:14 PM (2jQGY)

320 Unsock fail. Really need to remember not to leave dirty socks on over night.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 20, 2013 03:15 PM (sGtp+)

321 Pivot back to acid rain !!!

Posted by: The Jackhole at September 20, 2013 03:15 PM (nTgAI)

322 Now, now, let's be fair, the warmenistas have discovered a new constant. The Gore Effect.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 03:10 PM (VtjlW)

-----
Would that be the same effect where every global warming conference scheduled in North America gets blizzarded out every time???

Posted by: fixerupper at September 20, 2013 03:15 PM (nELVU)

323 Gawd! Why are we Republicans so anti-science? It's anti-science behavior like this in pointing out the democrat's politicization of science that is only driving the moderates from the GOP. I would hope that any future GOP candidate publicly distance themselves from these anti-science positions by publicly mocking the GOP for actually understanding science.

Posted by: anonononon at September 20, 2013 03:15 PM (QxSug)

324 @322: And where global warming boat tours inevitably end up trapped by ice.

Posted by: Ian s. at September 20, 2013 03:15 PM (B/VB5)

325
Color me exceedingly tired of the climate change debate.

It matters SQUAT whether our climate is getting warmer or colder.

Our species cannot affect either save in an extremely localized area, then only in a transient manner.

Need a solution?

Try adapting to the particular, thus ensuring or greatly enhancing the chances of survival.

Which relegates the debate to an amusing way to pass time.


Posted by: irongrampa at September 20, 2013 03:17 PM (SAMxH)

326
Saltier/colder - sinky
Less salty/warmer - floaty

I'm not seeing how the proposed heat transport mechanism works, unless its due to SHUTUP!

Posted by: Purp at September 20, 2013 03:17 PM (9MLX+)

327 Stupid denialists, of course warm water sinks and cold water rises. That's why ice floats.

And that's why we have clouds. Clouds are made of cold water. Then when the water gets warm enough, it rains.

Posted by: Thoughtful Liberal at September 20, 2013 03:17 PM (uvaJ1)

328 I'm going to take a wild guess and surmise that none of the people involved in ClimateGate 1.0 were ever penalized in any way whatsoever.

Posted by: Null at September 20, 2013 03:17 PM (DuH+r)

329 Was listening to NPR Wed on the drive home. Mainly because I need to crank up my road rage.

So this very concerned idiot comes on and is being interviewed by the idiot female. She asks about the global warming (OMG!). and this genius says: "the floods in Colorado are because of the increased CO2 emissions (pro tip... no CO2 emissions in CO. Or Utah. Or anywhere we get our weather from)"

THEN not 2 sentences later, Rocket Scientist says "and 1 mountain range to the west they're experiencing severe drought and wildfires!"

Zombie Richard Feynman just dug out from the grave, bought an illegal AR-15 shotgun and beat you to death with it.

Fucking idiots.

Posted by: tangonine at September 20, 2013 03:18 PM (x3YFz)

330 286 Why something seems to happening here...
http://tinyurl.com/m375dkz
Who keeps moving these signs along the side of
the road? Why?

Decades ago, I remember learning in my freshman level geology class that the prevailing theory about the periodic mega-ice ages was due to fluctuations in earth's rotational wobble causing the earth to enter periods where the axis varied between 40 degrees and 10 degrees.

That's my best guess. The signs are tracking the wobble.

Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at September 20, 2013 03:18 PM (sBegS)

331 Okay, everybody has moved on to the next thread so I can write this: Yes, the oceans can hold heat. Yes, the oceans can hold heat beneath a deep layer under a layer of cold water. I don't know if that's what's actually happening here -- knowing the desperation the Warmists are in, probably not -- but we're not making our case more attractive by denying the facts.

Posted by: joncelli at September 20, 2013 03:18 PM (RD7QR)

332 Would that be the same effect where every global warming conference scheduled in North America gets blizzarded out every time???
Posted by: fixerupper at September 20, 2013 03:15 PM (nELVU)



That would be it.

Also nood.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Oh Fuck All This Shit at September 20, 2013 03:18 PM (VtjlW)

333 We've discovered an inverse correlation between temperature and research money. Therefore, we postulate the following hypothesis: Bitch, it be getting hot all up in this place!

Posted by: Top Men at September 20, 2013 03:20 PM (SzAZ7)

334 304 Great. Now can someone explain to me how there's been no warming for 15 years and yet every single year has been wildly, hysterically touted as either the first, second or third "HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD"......?

Posted by: MegaIndependento at September 20, 2013 03:11 PM (uvaJ1)



Obfuscation by equivocation.

That "hottest year" refers to a local temperature, but global temperature is an "average" temperature. (which have we have NO way of accurately measuring)

It's a bit like looking at an oven's internal temperature and trying to use that to extrapolate the house's temperature.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 20, 2013 03:21 PM (sGtp+)

335 I'm going to take a wild guess and surmise that none of the people
involved in ClimateGate 1.0 were ever penalized in any way whatsoever.


They ran an investigation and cleared themselves of all wrongdoing. Seriously.

Posted by: MegaIndependento at September 20, 2013 03:21 PM (uvaJ1)

336 Posted by: joncelli at September 20, 2013 03:18 PM (RD7QR)

Don't worry. The scolding was already done upthread.

Posted by: polynikes at September 20, 2013 03:21 PM (m2CN7)

337 296. Yes. Obama abbreviations

"Or you can split the baby, get another"
his position on many matters
//including birth control.

--
Did you see Washington Times, House passes spending bill:
“The American people don’t want the government shut down, and they don’t want Obamacare,” said House Speaker Moe Boehner.
--

I DO want a government shut down. Make the cowards shit in their pants in public.

a la AllenG on this Congressional Membership and Administration: politically burn them down and then cover with salt.

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 20, 2013 03:21 PM (MhA4j)

338 if there is any justice in this world, the lack of sun spots during the last few years will indeed foreshadow the coming of the next mini ice age.

Posted by: tofer732 at September 20, 2013 03:22 PM (z3MpN)

339 That "hottest year" refers to a local temperature,
but global temperature is an "average" temperature. (which have we have
NO way of accurately measuring)

It's a bit like looking at an oven's internal temperature and trying to use that to extrapolate the house's temperature.


Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 20, 2013 03:21 PM (sGtp+)

The data is compromised. The only data you see is data that supports the political agenda. It sounds conspiracy theory-ish... but.... that doesn't mean there's not a conspiracy.

Posted by: tangonine at September 20, 2013 03:23 PM (x3YFz)

340 I would hope that any future GOP candidate publicly
distance themselves from these anti-science positions by publicly
mocking the GOP for actually understanding science.

Posted by: anonononon at September 20, 2013 03:15 PM (QxSug)

---
How about good old fashioned math????
CO2 makes up .03 percent (that's POINT oh three percent) or .0003 of the earths atmosphere.
Of that..... mans contribution to that miniscule amount is roughly 3%.
So manmade CO2 is .0000009 of the earths atmosphere.
o_0
Incinerate the planet indeed.

Posted by: fixerupper at September 20, 2013 03:24 PM (nELVU)

341 even the data is compromised. They are comparing satellite temperature estimates to pre-satellite information. Guess which data set tends to skew temperatures higher?

Posted by: tofer732 at September 20, 2013 03:24 PM (z3MpN)

342 331. Oceanographers and Marine scientists have been tracking the increasing frequency of volcanic eruptions on the ocean floor, particularly the Pacific Rim, but also the Indian Ocean and others. (Increases ocean temperature, currents)

Posted by: panzernashorn at September 20, 2013 03:25 PM (MhA4j)

343 287 You have to admit that the influence of social science is profound. It used to be that only social science had the paradigm that when the data clashed with the hypothesis, the data was wrong.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 20, 2013 03:07 PM (T0NGe)



I noticed that all my high school science classes taught that. You had the "correct result" known ahead of time based on the theory; and we tossed out "wrong results" willy nilly.

Now, if the experiment gives the wrong results, that's generally going to be teenage stupidity in execution, but in practice we got trained to massage the data and work towards a conclusion before the experiment. The experiment was not authoritative, the theory/conclusion given to us was.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 20, 2013 03:26 PM (v3pYe)

344
We better pray its pollution and not another Siberian Traps.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at September 20, 2013 03:29 PM (5xmd7)

345 It was interesting to see an old school con man in operation though. It was more entertaining than going to the movies.
Posted by: Purp at September 20, 2013 03:13 PM (9MLX+)

Old con men? The family black sheep for years--for generations--was my maternal Great Uncle Bill, a war hero who had served as a B-17 ball-turret gunner on missions over Japan during WWII. He was my grandfather's twin, and the two so closely resembled each other even in old age that you could only tell them apart because Uncle Bill had lost his left-hand ring and little finger to a flak burst during the war.

Anyway, Uncle Bill would disappear for years at a time, and then pop up again. He was my favorite uncle: warm, friendly, charming, popularwith the ladies,and movie star handsome. He told the greatest stories. Later,when I wasan adult, my mother took me aside and told me the truth about Uncle Bill, and the truth was that he was an old school con man who liked running real estate scams of one sort or another. Those times he disappeared from view? Prison, usually 3-5year stretches. She blamed it on what he had endured during the war, figured something in him had gotten bent somehow as the result of the stress he had been under. Who knows? I never asked him about that side of his life, but I think some criminals do it for the rush, and he was probably one of them.

Uncle Bill died about 15 years ago, at the age of 85, in a trailer park outside Reno, where he was living with a 50-something former Vegas showgirl. I won't say he was a role model, but whenever I think of 'cool' I think of him and Steve McQueen.

Posted by: Emil Largo, formerly 2nd in Command of SPECTRE, now a happy Democrat at September 20, 2013 03:30 PM (2jF2B)

346 I suck at socks.

Posted by: troyriser at September 20, 2013 03:31 PM (2jF2B)

347 Okay, everybody has moved on to the next thread so I
can write this: Yes, the oceans can hold heat. Yes, the oceans can hold
heat beneath a deep layer under a layer of cold water. I don't know if
that's what's actually happening here -- knowing the desperation the
Warmists are in, probably not -- but we're not making our case more
attractive by denying the facts.


Posted by: joncelli at September 20, 2013 03:18 PM (RD7QR)

You know there are instruments out there intended to do those measurements? A whole fleet of automated buoys that periodically submerge like little submarines, to great depths, tracking temperature as the descend, and then bob back up to surface, and report their findings by radio to a satellite network. And so far, they have not recorded any indication of the dread "missing heat".

That's the real problem with the CAGW hypothesis, there's no real science in it, and when data disagree with the hypothesis, the data are fudged or suppressed.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 20, 2013 03:35 PM (8Fl6F)

348 338 if there is any justice in this world, the lack of sun spots during the last few years will indeed foreshadow the coming of the next mini ice age.
Posted by: tofer732 at September 20, 2013 03:22 PM (z3MpN)

Yeah, as much as I would enjoy the schadenfreude, watching ten percent of the world's population starve to death and centuries long economic collapse isn't really worth it to me.

I'd kind of rather the AGW booster club was right and we can terraform that icy wasteland to our north, Minnesota.

Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at September 20, 2013 03:35 PM (sBegS)

349 If it makes anyone feel better, I push about 200 students/semester. I let them know this global warming bullshit is bullshit. I introduce them to Feynman's approach to theory and testing and I'd say I'm successful in creating critical thinkers and not drones.

They have the cajones to question me. And I like that.

Posted by: tangonine at September 20, 2013 03:44 PM (x3YFz)

350 "If it makes anyone feel better, I push about 200 students/semester. I let them know this global warming bullshit is bullshit."
Posted by: tangonine at September 20, 2013 03:44 PM (x3YFz)

I'm thinking you're probably not too popular with many of your colleagues. I'm also thinking you probably handle that unpopularity pretty well.

Posted by: troyriser at September 20, 2013 03:48 PM (2jF2B)

351 Did you account for wizards? It's wizards, right?

Posted by: Boone at September 20, 2013 03:52 PM (owNoh)

352 tangonine, #329:

Wonderful post - and it perfectly illustrates my problem with the alarmist scientists: They basically look at anything out of the ordinary and shout, YOU SEE? WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED? It's the furthest thing from science.

And about Feynmann: He warned scientists, "You must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool."

Some of the politicians, writers and activists hanging around climate scientists may be liars. I can think of a couple of climate scientists who I would say are dishonest.

But most of them (and I know quite a few) are absolutely sincere, and quite intelligent. They're not lying. Their papers aren't part of a hoax, a scam, a conspiracy. But they have a great big blind spot: They signed onto this theory, they've bet their careers on it, and they would much rather fool themselves than look really critically at that theory.

Think about it: Most climate scientists either got their start in another branch of science and then crossed over because they believed there's a climate crisis and they could help understand something important - or, if younger, they chose the field for those reasons. This is not a group of scientists who would enjoy accepting a null hypothesis.

They (academic scientists generally) are overwhelmingly politically liberal. Most would insist this is irrelevant, but the policy implications of their theory happen to line up well with what they'd like to see anyway.

Those questioning their findings (a) generally don't work on this for a living, and (b) are politically more conservative. Thus most criticism is coming from people they dismiss on a professional level and dislike on a political level.

And, finally, many of the senior people in their field, the ones editing journals, reviewing grants, awarding grants, are absolutely convinced that CO2 is the main driver of climate, and only oil-funded crackpots would want to question that.

In other words, if you wanted to design a field of science that would circle the wagons in defense of a theory and fight to the bitter end to prop it up, you couldn't do much better than present-day climate science.

Posted by: JPS at September 20, 2013 03:53 PM (06lCn)

353 Yeah, as much as I would enjoy the schadenfreude, watching ten percent of the world's population starve to death and centuries long economic collapse isn't really worth it to me.

I'd kind of rather the AGW booster club was right and we can terraform that icy wasteland to our north, Minnesota.Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at September 20, 2013 03:35 PM (sBegS)Humans survived (thrived) in the 16th to 18th centuries during the last mini Ice Age. We would be ok.

Posted by: tofer732 at September 20, 2013 03:58 PM (z3MpN)

354
So they are now relying on an explanation where heat does not rise? Let me go out on a limb and say they already booted this one.

Posted by: Beagle at September 20, 2013 04:06 PM (sOtz/)

355 Governments don't lobby. They coerce.

Posted by: IronDioPriest at September 20, 2013 04:07 PM (1dJQd)

356 Humans survived (thrived) in the 16th to 18th centuries during the last mini Ice Age. We would be ok.

Northern Europeans in the larger cities did (mostly) okay. Their poor country relatives were not so lucky, with a string of famines. 15% of the Scottish populace died of hunger in the 1690's.

The Chinese, Russians, and Japanese recorded famines that killed millions of people during the same time period.

Our technology can counteract a lot of things, but it can't simulate a growing season in the great plains. Plants need warmth to store calories and we need a whole shit ton of calories to keep the world in Wonder Bread on a daily basis. The tropics are just generally poorly suited for mass agriculture comparatively.

Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at September 20, 2013 04:12 PM (sBegS)

357
On the Bright-side, they still feel that they need to hide shit like this. When they get comfortable enough to just say "fuck it" and do it openly then it will be way too late to do anything about it.
So for now we still have a chance to make these bastards accountable and salvage the country.

Posted by: SamIam at September 20, 2013 04:15 PM (HMI9a)

358
JSchuler, if you're still here - and the intervening comments haven't modified/added to what you said above - I make this precise point when speaking to intelligent, open-minded people (OK, rare - seriously - but it happens some times).

Point: this is not a "theory". It is, at most, a so-far completely unvalidated hypothesis. But not really. I go further, that is, I take the logic to a more rigorous level - but one that is actually pretty normal when dealing with science - and illustrate how AGW isa CONJECTURE, not even a hypothesis.

It's most basic mechanical assumption- that higher CO2 would, ceteris paribus, lead to higher atmospheric temps on average and over time - is completely unproven, and to me has always seemed outlandish and unlikely. Note that I am focusing on just one - albeit foundational - element of what would be a hypothesis IF it were testable, could survive analysis along side things known to be true, and led to reproducible/predictable events or experiments. None of which can be said of AGW - hence, CONJECTURE, not even hypothesis.

Not really semantics. The very logical core of the matter.

I like "evidence management" way at the top - gonna use that one I am.

The direct evidence on AGW - that it is not even a hypothesis, that its core assumptions and mechanisms are not just uproven but very unlikely - has been dramatic and dispositive from the outset. To ice the cake, the meta-evidence (process, human, institutional behaviors of those pushing the conjecture) have been if anything more dramatically damning. Name another part of science, with such cosmic implications for all human activity on Earth, that is characterized by faked data, hidden data, punked peer review, illogic, histrionic politicization, money-grubbing, greed, power-madness, and arrogance.

Apart from the still literally unbelievable collapse of American civic culture and the public square into dark, ignorant, racist, authoritarian-to-soft-fascist, economically illiterate, integrity-free shittiness (process accelerating dramatically around 2005/6), this whole despicable and indefensible collapse of scientific integrity has actually shaken me the most. And all at once. In a different way (though obviously less dramatic and violent), it must be a little like what being an untermensch must have seemed like in Germany in the mid-30s: all the principles and institutions that created one of the greatest and most prosperous countries in history all pretty much simultaneously evaporated into a nightmare.

Posted by: non-purist at September 20, 2013 04:20 PM (afQnV)

359 Dr. Peter Venkman deplores the lack of rigidity in the scientific process on display while admiring the sheer amount of gall it represents.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Outrage Outlet Happy Hour! Cocktails of Betrayal 50% Off! at September 20, 2013 04:34 PM (hLRSq)

360
The global data left their absurdly wide confidence interval earlier this year. When that happens, you're supposed to "reject the hypothesis", but they're apparently relying on the fact that you have to be a technical person who took a stats course or two to realize that. "Reject the hypothesis" means, in this case (to borrow a phrase from TV) "Myth Busted".


Naturally, instead of saying "Oops! I guess we were wrong!" we get this "Finageler's Constant" stuff. They're literally saying their hypothesis"was right all along", while simultaneously changing their hypothesis. In reality, they've NEVER made a meaningful prediction that came out right, while making the outrageous claim that "the science is settled".


Notice also that they only admit to "it's only half what we expected" crap. What they're doing is combining the first 15 yrs of warming that got them going on all this, tacking on the next 15 years (which had a warming rate of ZERO), and saying the average is half (of what it was for the first 15 years). It's completely dishonest.

Posted by: Optimizer at September 20, 2013 04:42 PM (Mxt9o)

361 They went from explaining how AGW will destroy us all to theorizing where all the "warm" went.

As if it were a piece of cheese or something.

Posted by: Charlemagne at Verdun at September 20, 2013 04:45 PM (m81NZ)

362 wouldn't this ocean thing be a constant that also happened before?

Posted by: slick at September 20, 2013 04:51 PM (RIdwM)

363
@358


The way I look at it, the vaunted "climate models" each represent a "hypothesis". Ironically, the fact that there are two or three dozen that they use (selected, I'm told, on the basis of whether they gave the desired prediction) tell you right off that "the science isn't settled". C'mon! How can you say it's "settled" when you have dozens of different answers to the same question?

Nonetheless, if you give the benefit of the doubt, and submit to the idea that there are some unknowns (in this settled science), and accept (without proof)that these unknowns are statistically independent and adequately modeled by the collective, what you have is a single hypothesis - one that isNOT "completely unvalidated" (and I'm not sure if they evenCLAIM that they are "validated"), as you say, but rather has literally been INVALIDATED by the last 15 years. The hypothesis, to the extent it exists, has been DISPROVEN.

At this point, the alarmists are the unscientific clowns, no different from the people who predict the End of the World on a specific date, and then change the date after it doesn't happen.

Posted by: Optimizer at September 20, 2013 05:02 PM (Mxt9o)

364 When they were real popular, I wanted to buy me one of those Finagle Me Hillary dolls.

Then I found out where you have to touch it...

Posted by: Charlemagne at Verdun at September 20, 2013 05:06 PM (m81NZ)

365 Oh, and I was going to add that since the climatemodels have been selected specifically so that they will be unstable (which, again, only means something to you if you've studied engineering, or the like), it seems to me that this is just a more elaborate version of the exact same "Hockey Stick" fraud that Michael Mann was caught doing years ago. No matter what data is fed into it, the result will have the same character.

Posted by: Optimizer at September 20, 2013 05:07 PM (Mxt9o)

366 ClimateGate I, II and III already happened. This would be ClimateGate IV, or what I call it, Climatenado. All sorts of nonsensical climate crap falling from the sky by the IPCC.

Posted by: MrX at September 20, 2013 05:16 PM (PxmNZ)

367 So the oceans have been hiding heat for the last 15 years. Why didn't the oceans hide the heat before then?

Posted by: JoeBlow at September 20, 2013 05:34 PM (6Hspk)

368 the ocean ate my homework

Posted by: Chants at September 20, 2013 06:57 PM (cdS5P)

369 The simplest answer is often correct. "Climate Change" is caused by Sasquatch farts.

Posted by: qzy at September 20, 2013 08:57 PM (bswjX)

370 BRAWNDO HAS ELECTROLYTES!!!!

Posted by: MANBEARPIG at September 20, 2013 09:00 PM (i9tfZ)

371 According to my calculations, you need to give me some more money.

Posted by: IPCC scientist at September 20, 2013 09:13 PM (bswjX)

372
According to my calculations, I'm just making shit up as I go along.

Posted by: IPCC scientist at September 20, 2013 09:14 PM (bswjX)

373 Sorry, no. Warm water rises.

Posted by: Vorpar at September 21, 2013 01:10 AM (u56SD)

374 Another huge thing they always miss. The effect of the biosphere on climate. Ya know, Life, that green shit that kinda -made- the atmosphere we currently have?
Yall are making multi-century predictions and you think trees and plankton and whatnot have no say in that whatsoever? Yall know that 'humans are the only creatures that alter their environment to suit them better' is bullshit. Ohh, too much CO2, the Earth is on the way to becoming Venus! You think trees are gonna take that shit laying down? Or, maybe, just a guess(based on a few millennia of known history), the algae might adapt(evolve) to 'fix' things purely for their own benefit.
While yall's poison ivy is becoming more poisonous(remember that claim?) I'm sure the more industrious microscopic plants floating in the seas are doing something more constructive.

Posted by: Keapon Laffin at September 21, 2013 05:23 AM (LRz3v)

375
If they were really smart they would claim something they did helped.

I mean if you are making up a like, you should claim success. Especially if that success ends up in keeping the money you already squandered.

That's probably next:

"Keep paying us, we are the ones keeping the climate from exploding and killing you all."


That would probably work until those pensions kick in. Liberals aren't real smart they won't notice, they just want to feel good about themselves anyway.

Posted by: petunia at September 21, 2013 05:11 PM (DAcBA)

376 2000-2009 is the warmest decade on record, so it's simply wrong to say that warming has stopped since 1998. That year was a particularly warm year, and everyone choosing to start with that year has an axe to grind. Yeah, scientific projections show less warming than expected. But "less warming" is not "no warming." The IPCC report confirms that global warming is still happening, and everyone on here who thinks the report vindicates their climate skepticism isn't reading it correctly.

Posted by: Steve at September 22, 2013 10:34 AM (FthLe)






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