Surprise! The Strongest Rebel Group In Syria Is The One Affiliated With Al Qaeda

John E. made a very good point on last week's podcast...under the terms of the 2001 Authorization of Use of Military Force, the US has a stronger legal basis for going after the Syrian rebels than it does in helping them.

But help them we will.

Concern about the Syrian al Qaeda-affiliated group Jabhat al-Nusra, also known as the al-Nusra Front, is at an all-time high, according to the analyst, with as many as 10,000 fighters and supporters inside Syria. The United States has designated al-Nusra Front as a terrorist group with links to al Qaeda in Iraq.

That assessment is shared by some Middle Eastern intelligence agencies that have long believed the United States is underestimating the Sunni-backed al Qaeda movement in the country, according to a Middle East source. It is also believed that Iran is running training camps inside Syria for Hezbollah and that other Iranian militia fighters are coming into the country to fight for the regime.

The analyst has been part of recent discussions with the U.S. intelligence community, which is urgently working to understand what is going on inside the war-ravaged country and is consulting outside experts. The analyst, who declined to be named because of the sensitive nature of the information, stressed that all assessments about Syria are approximate at best because of the lack of U.S. personnel on the ground.

The report also says the rebels are trying to get their own chemical weapons. Fantastic.

Victor Davis Hanson is worried.

U.S. influence in the Middle East and North Africa is at a new postwar low. That Iran supposedly plans to send 4,000 fighters to Syria suggests that it is not too afraid of anyone preempting its nuclear facilities or of the supposedly crushing oil boycott.

There is no guarantee that American air support or close training might not end up in some sort of American ground presence — the only sure guarantee that so-called moderates might prevail should Assad fall. Of course, any costly intervention would eventually be orphaned by many in the present chorus of interventionists in a manner that we also know well from Iraq. We are told that dealing a blow to Iran and Hezbollah would be a good thing, and no doubt it would be. But in the callous calculus of Realpolitik, both seem already to be suffering without U.S. intervention.

The last part is key...we should do enough to keep the fight going but not enough to help the rebels win. Let them fight and bleed for another year, two or more. I don't care. Once they are wasted away from killing each other we can figure out what comes next.

Posted by: DrewM. at 12:43 PM



Comments

1 It's a trap!

Posted by: Admiral Akbar at June 17, 2013 12:45 PM (6McTJ)

2 How about we give the rebels the weapons, and then tell Assad where the caches are?

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 12:45 PM (GQ8sn)

3 "the US have"

Subtle.

Posted by: Uncle Jesse at June 17, 2013 12:45 PM (dskTv)

4

Posted by: Sphynx at June 17, 2013 12:46 PM (OZmbA)

5 Alienating your friends and enabling your enemies seems to be the very model of "Smart Power."

Posted by: huerfano at June 17, 2013 12:46 PM (bAGA/)

6 Problem is that if we provide just enough to keep it going, kinda hard to sell as a humanitarian deal. I know that there are people in government cynical enough to do that level of Realpolitik, but how exactly do you sell someone on that?

We are going to participate to make the situation worse You onboard?

Posted by: blaster at June 17, 2013 12:46 PM (W6bkf)

7 The US Middle East policy/strategy is a bloody mess. Conceived by idiots and carried out by ignorant fools. But the prospect for complete disaster is excellent.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 12:46 PM (9Bj8R)

8 . . . we should do enough to keep the fight going but not enough to help the
rebels win. Let them fight and bleed for another year, two or more. I
don't care. Once they are wasted away from killing each other we can
figure out what comes next.


I think that was Reagan's strategy for the Iran-Iraq war, and a good one.

Posted by: Sphynx at June 17, 2013 12:47 PM (OZmbA)

9 Suicide vests for e'rryone!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 17, 2013 12:47 PM (XS/b3)

10 oh well...

For the first time in my life I'm glad I'm at the age I'm closer to being out the door and not having to live through all the futures mayhem .
The country decided they wanted to be world citizens , without thinking about the future consequences . let them .

Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (nqBYe)

11 I think we should just mind our own business. I've heard this argument that keeping the fight going, without allowing a winner, is a win-win. But it seems like we're just stirring a hornets nest in doing that.

Posted by: Brewer at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (eV1I0)

12 Kill. Them. All.

Posted by: garrett at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (4Lbfn)

13
NO BLOOD FOR.....

...what is it Syria could possibly have that we might want???

Posted by: BurtTC at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (TOk1P)

14 This must be bad reporting, as the Illustrious God-Emperor has assured us all that al Qaeda is broken.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2013 12:49 PM (Kppp9)

15 Basically, we're actively assisting Al Queada.

Aren't they our enemies?

Isn't this... um.. oh, I don't know... f*cking treason?

Posted by: shibumi, who is obviously being watched by the NSA right now! at June 17, 2013 12:49 PM (z63Tr)

16 Works for me.

But is that TFG's plan?

Posted by: eleven at June 17, 2013 12:49 PM (KXm42)

17 When it comes to the Middle East, this Administration has the anti-Midas touch. Everything turns to stinking bloody offal.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 12:49 PM (UVBO7)

18 I'm with Putin on this one. Fuck the G7

Posted by: FUBAR at June 17, 2013 12:49 PM (Cs2tJ)

19 ...what is it Syria could possibly have that we might want???

Posted by: BurtTC at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (TOk1P)

----
..... voters.

Posted by: The DNC at June 17, 2013 12:50 PM (nELVU)

20 Waterhouse and All the world loves him and His ideas.


'we are the ones we've been waiting for'

shrug.

Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:50 PM (nqBYe)

21 Also, what is to stop these "Syrian rebels" from giving the weapons to "Al Qaeda" who will then use them... on U.S. citizens?

Or is that the plan?

Posted by: shibumi, who is obviously being watched by the NSA right now! at June 17, 2013 12:50 PM (z63Tr)

22 19 ...what is it Syria could possibly have that we might want???

Posted by: BurtTC at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (TOk1P)

----
..... voters.
Posted by: The DNC at June 17, 2013 12:50 PM (nELVU)

we will get them sooner than you think since we are going to be relocating them here in the good ole US of A.........sigh

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at June 17, 2013 12:51 PM (8JJ6O)

23 I happy to meet McCain, sad that Omar not let me show him my collection of heads.

Posted by: Mohammed Achmed at June 17, 2013 12:51 PM (Aif/5)

24 No fucking way do I want troops in there.


No way.

Posted by: eleven at June 17, 2013 12:52 PM (KXm42)

25 Also, what is to stop these "Syrian rebels" from giving the weapons to "Al Qaeda" who will then use them... on U.S. citizens?



Or is that the plan?

Posted by: shibumi, who is obviously being watched by the NSA right now! at June 17, 2013 12:50 PM (z63Tr)


Just think of it as Fast and Furious on steroids.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 12:52 PM (GQ8sn)

26 Nobel.Peace.Prize.

uh hmm.

Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:52 PM (nqBYe)

27 Hey willow, what's up?

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 12:52 PM (GQ8sn)

28
Admittedly I know little about high stakes world influences, but from my point I see if its the Russkies vs Olimpdick, the betting is easy on that.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 17, 2013 12:53 PM (g5YAm)

29 The Reagan strategy for Iran-Iraq was simple. Iraq got intel on what the Iranians were doing while being allowed to buy off the world arms market. Iran got parts from the US in exchange for hostages. Though Saddam was a bit mad when he learned how that simpleton Reagan played him for a fool.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 12:53 PM (UVBO7)

30 Fast & Islamically Furious

Posted by: X at June 17, 2013 12:53 PM (KHo8t)

31 We should done Assad in 2003 when we had the ropps and tanks and supply lines all in place.

Now, just a mess.

Why don't we declare it a NATO mission, then withdraw from NATO?

Posted by: blaster at June 17, 2013 12:53 PM (W6bkf)

32
11 -

Amen. There were costs we paid as a result of our Iran/Iraq war strategy, just as there were costs to us supporting the Afghan rebels against the Soviets.

You don't get something for nothing. What I'm having a hard time seeing here though, is what our SOMETHING would be.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 17, 2013 12:53 PM (TOk1P)

33 The press was reporting the Syrian rebel group was Al Qaeda a year ago. Obama is a treasonous Traitor and a lying asshole.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 12:53 PM (lZvxr)

34 It's a shame that they can't both lose.
Let's sell arms to whichever side seems to be losing that day.

Posted by: Max Entropy at June 17, 2013 12:54 PM (bp2Xa)

35
There is no guarantee that American air support or close training might not end up in some sort of American ground presence — the only sure guarantee that so-called moderates might prevail should Assad fall.

Our failure is a feature, not a bug, to the Left.

This weekend I watched Dr. Zhivago with my older son. The scenes depicting the outbreak of WWI showed jubilant Russian men leaving their sweethearts to join a military parade, along with grim-faced men wearing black workingmen's clothes. The narration (by Zhivago's brother, who became a Soviet bigwig) gravely announces that the Party welcomed the war, and ordered members to join to help incur defeat, which would lead to disillusionment, and make the country ripe for revolution.

So never take Dems exhortations for military involvement as anything else but the same thing. Not all Dems are Communists, or see where this is going, but the people driving the bus are.

Sound tin-foil hatty? Consider how rapidly they turned on the interventions in Iraq and even Afghanistan, which had virtually unanimous support at the outset.

Feature, not bug.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 12:54 PM (Z2Bkq)

36 EC, nothing much. Tired . Have decided we can't stop this train.
decided , lib is the likely reality.

acceptance is whatever stage of grief.
.

Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:54 PM (nqBYe)

37 I get it: Captain Kickass is embracing a new model of warfare, - Sustainable Warfare!

Genius, that fellow, attempting eliminate an entire generation of bin Ladens.

Posted by: Fritz at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (UzPAd)

38 How about having Egypt go in on the side of the rebels? Get some payoff for the billions we pay them?

Posted by: I'm the honey Badger, BITCH! at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (U3CzV)

39 I could have swore the rebels also used chemical weapons.

But since they're Sunnis who want nothing more than to destroy Israel, and Teh SCOAMT doesn't want tobe succeeded by his Shi'ite-apologist VP,Teh SCOAMT is siding with them.

Posted by: steveegg at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (o44nj)

40
I'm all for letting these ragheads battle it out to the last man standing. But there won't be any coming in at that point and sorting itout. And it could escalate and tip Lebanon into chaos.

There will be some price to pay for letting this continue without us. It would be dishonest to ignore this or blame it on the Left when it does.

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (r5w1L)

41 And McShitty joins forces with his pal Obmashitforrains to help them.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (lZvxr)

42
Tail Wags Dog.
Film at Eleven.

Posted by: News Teaser at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (4Lbfn)

43
Once again we will go in with no end game plan other than taking Assad out. This will be the 4th time in less than 20 years that we have made stupid decisions without a long range goal other than the regime change.Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia and now Syria. Every single one of those ended up badly for the US with the possible exception of Iraq, but I want to wait 5 or so more years to see how that really works out.

We continue to be "Weapons Grade Blonde" stupid in thinking that just taking a guy or two out will magically change the way countries think and act.

Posted by: Johnnyreb at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (6McTJ)

44 13 what is it Syria could possibly have that we might want

assad's wife
she smoking hot

Posted by: navycopjoe at June 17, 2013 12:56 PM (UWEUP)

45 Damascus, nukes; some orbiting required.

Posted by: Ellen Ripley at June 17, 2013 12:56 PM (o44nj)

46 EC, nothing much. Tired . Have decided we can't stop this train.
decided , lib is the likely reality.

acceptance is whatever stage of grief.





I'm tired too. We're all stuck watching this trainwreck for the next 3 years.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 12:56 PM (GQ8sn)

47 We can defeat them by giving up all our atomic weapons. They will never know what hit them!

Posted by: Matt Damon's Beautiful Mind at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (71LDo)

48 There is a segment of the Left, that includes Obama, that believes in the long run it is good if the hard-core islamists take power in muslim countries.

Their idea is that actually having power will a) force them to moderate and b) show the population what a bad idea it is to put crazy jihadis in power.

They seem to ignore Iran, but their idea is that a decade or so of jihadis in power is somehow ... good .. in the long run ... somehow.

When you point out the clusterfuck of Iran and that once in power the jihadis will never willingly let go ... they say, ah, Iran proves our point.

Islamists were kept out of power in Iran by the secular ruling class -- against the wishes of the people, leading to revolution. Better to install them democratically, so they can later be voted out democratically. And it gives the aggrieved uber-islamists a way to vent their anger at the polls.

Seems crazy to me. But that appears to be their logic and why the Left seems to consistently side with the jihadis.

Obama has toppled several "secular-ish" regimes now in the mideast and replaced them with Islamists. Hard to reconcile that with his domestic agenda of Gay Marriage+Late Term Abortions.

The Left is determined to try and turn Islamic political parties into versions of Germany's Christian Democrats party. They think giving them democratic power will speed up that process.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (ZPrif)

49 Let them eat cake! We are traveling on your dime suckers! LOL!

Posted by: Mom & Daughters in Ireland at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (h0/aL)

50 So Russia is ?


and Where are the Saudis in this anyway?

Have they chosen a side?

Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (nqBYe)

51 I'm ignorant and curious: is there an example of the "(doing) enough to keep the fight going but not enough to help the rebels win.
Let them fight and bleed for another year, two or more ...
Once they are wasted away from killing each other we can figure out what
comes next" strategy ever being implemented successfully?

Posted by: holygoat at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (vAiDn)

52
Everything turns to stinking bloody offal.

As was intended.

Consider this: do you feel more or less patriotic toward the government since Bronco's accession, or more cynical and disillusioned?

Q.E.D.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (Z2Bkq)

53 NO BLOOD FOR.....

...what is it Syria could possibly have that we might want???

Posted by: BurtTC at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (TOk1P)


Just like Libya, European oil.

Posted by: Ellen Ripley at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (o44nj)

54


Let it burn, let it glow,
They won't learn, let it show...
In the sun, the rain, the snow,

Light the fire, let it glow.

Standing at the crossroads, trying to read the signs

To tell me which way I should go to find the answer,

And all the time I know,

Light the fire and let it glow.


Let it burn, let it glow,
They won't learn, let it show...
In the sun the rain the snow.
Light the fire and let it glow.

Posted by: fixerupper at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (nELVU)

55 Fuckin' A- that's the second time the damn dirty sock didn't come off in time.

Posted by: steveegg at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (o44nj)

56 future President Palin put it the best "let them kill each other and let allah sort them out"

Posted by: navycopjoe at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (UWEUP)

57 AQ wants Med ports and their associated revenue streams. Taking over a whole country with Med ports is the way to get them.

They tried in Lebanon and were rebuffed. The Hezb, while nominally sympathetic, aren't about to share the power and wealth, nor is Hamas, so Gaza is out.

Turkey and Egypt are a bridge too far, so Syria it is and must be.

so of course we're going to help them attain their strategic goals..

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (rVul6)

58 If I'd lost a son to this fraud of a WoT, I'd probably go totally fucking nuts.

If we really were at war with terror, all of the people and nations that fund it would be smoking craters.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (OQpzc)

59 If we intervene in a clearly Internal Revolt in Syria, we are breaking the UN Charter... which HAS the force of Law in the US, as it was a Treaty the Senate Ratified.

UN Charter specifically does not allow others to intervene in UN Member State Rebellions... unless authorized for humanitarian reasons by the UN Security Counsel.... (something which will no happen as Russia has the Veto).

Thus... Obama will be breaking US Law, by this intervention.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (lZBBB)

60
40 -

Here's a thought: how about we let the U.N. take the lead on this one.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (TOk1P)

61 I supported the Afghan War, and Iraq. I deeply, deeply regret that now.I fell for the neocon"hearst and minds" bullshits, and was (and still am) livid over 9/11.
But One US soldier or contractor is worth 1,000, no, 10,000, no, 1 millionof those ungrateful primitive goatfuckers. I'm not just saying this becuase Zero is President, I don't want one more drop of US blood spilled over there for nation-building or "peace-keeping" missions.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (YmPwQ)

62 Hate to say this but Lebanon is already in chaos. With Friends of Iran under Nashrallah pretty much holding the government hostage. And the few remaining moderates in Lebanon, like the Christians, were counting on Assad to help them keep Nashrallah at bay. Does that tell you how messed up Lebanon is? Christians flocking to Assad, a guy responsible for killing Christian politicians, for protection. And now well Assad is out of the picture.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (UVBO7)

63 Yes, both sides are bad guys. Yes, it would be nice to be able to let them kill each other until nothing is left.

The but, and it is a big but, is that this is the exact course of action we took in the Iran-Iraq war, where we were surreptitiously arming both sides hoping the mullahs would kill Saddam, and vice versa. That tact ended up solidifying the caricature that most mid-easters held (and hold) of the US as a cynical bunch of Kissingerites.

While there is no "good" solution to Syria, ineffectual and cynical interference is among the worst of a slew of bad options. Of course, that is exactly the tact that Obama et al. will follow.

Syria is probably the country we should have invaded instead of Iraq in 2003, but at this point, it would be better to leave the megalomaniac in power than to cede governance to the Taliban v. 3.0.

Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (sBegS)

64 and Where are the Saudis in this anyway?

Have they chosen a side?

Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (nqBYe)


The Sunni side.

Posted by: steveegg at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (o44nj)

65 The status quo is simply unacceptable.

Posted by: jeannebodine at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (LBBS3)

66 Putin seems to be the only G8-er who understands that Assad has kept the crazies under control for a long time. Assad alone stands between Syrian Christians and certain annihilation. Witness: Boko Haram

Posted by: NCwoof at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (aUQgu)

67 80s Iraq-Iran war was the main recent example.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (ZPrif)

68 60 Here's a thought: how about we let the U.N. take the lead on this one.

what, the rebels aren't raping enough?

Posted by: navycopjoe at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (UWEUP)

69 We should interdict any men or supplies from Iran bound for Syria the same as Israel does for Gaza. We can just use our bases and troops in Iraq as jumping off points for the operations.

Oh wait...

Posted by: alittleenglish at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (SHZnC)

70
BRING BACK THE BOMB[/b[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wESpXvwHloc

Posted by: Your Masters - GWAR at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (4Lbfn)

71 So Russia is ?


and Where are the Saudis in this anyway?

Have they chosen a side?


Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (nqBYe)

Russia is backing Assad, The Saudis are backing the rebels.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (lZvxr)

72 How about having Egypt go in on the side of the rebels? Get some payoff for the billions we pay them?
Posted by: I'm the honey Badger, BITCH! at June 17, 2013 12:55 PM (U3CzV)


They already are

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 12:59 PM (9Bj8R)

Posted by: Your Masters - GWAR at June 17, 2013 01:00 PM (4Lbfn)

74 50 So Russia is ?


and Where are the Saudis in this anyway?

Have they chosen a side?

---

The Saudis, Kuwaitis, and others have chosen the rebels, if their deportation of Lebanese Shi'ites in recent weeks is any indications.

That was done in response to Hezbollah targeting Hamas for supporting the rebels against Assad.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:00 PM (a3iAA)

75 Damn, that almost cost me.

Posted by: garrett at June 17, 2013 01:00 PM (4Lbfn)

76 lebanon has always been in chaos

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at June 17, 2013 01:00 PM (8JJ6O)

77 Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (rVul6)

Deeper... its not totally AQ... its the House of Saud who want the Med Port.

This is Sunni vs. Shiite.... with Russia, Assad, Iran, and Hez on one side... while AQ, the Saudis, and OBAMA siding with the Rebels.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 17, 2013 01:00 PM (lZBBB)

78 What a mess.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:00 PM (9Bj8R)

79 Don't worry. America arms al Qaeda, we arm the Shiites, they shoot at each other for a couple more years and everyone is happy. Don't say I never did anything for you.

Posted by: Vladimir Putin at June 17, 2013 01:01 PM (+GpbP)

80 Nuke all of this shit. Kill them all. I have have no patience for this clusterfuck. Either that or completely withdraw leaving only covert individuals behind to moniter the plans and activities of each side.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:01 PM (eKXog)

81 *pauses while reading the comments*

We keep looking for some grand and brilliant reason why this Administration would support the ouster of Assad. Gentle beings there is a far more simpler and understandable reason for this mendacious urge. Michelle is jealous of how marvelous Assad's wife looks in anything.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:01 PM (UVBO7)

82 This is Sunni vs. Shiite.... with Russia, Assad, Iran, and Hez on one side... while AQ, the Saudis, and OBAMA siding with the Rebels.
Posted by: Romeo13 at June 17, 2013 01:00 PM (lZBBB)

Yup

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:01 PM (9Bj8R)

83 Michelle is jealous of how marvelous Assad's wife looks in anything.


Well, then no First Lady is safe.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:02 PM (GQ8sn)

84 This is Sunni vs. Shiite.... with Russia, Assad, Iran, and Hez on one side... while AQ, the Saudis, and OBAMA siding with the Rebels.

---

Considering the supposed theories about Obama and the Saudis, it's not really a surprise to see both on the same side.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:02 PM (a3iAA)

85 Once they are wasted away from killing each other. . .

They aren't wasting away fast enough, we need to speed the process somehow. (If that's the argument you want to make. )

It's like saying just stand back and let Chicago gang bangers off each other then arrest the last shooter standing; it's not solving the problem.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at June 17, 2013 01:02 PM (bLijS)

86 How about having Egypt go in on the side of the rebels?

They already are, which has prompted Assad to state that the Muslim Brotherhood is a front group for the Jooooooooooos. Possibly run by one of our fine Morons or Ettes of the tribe.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 17, 2013 01:02 PM (B/VB5)

87 Upside of Iran-Iraq war is lots of dead jihadis.
Downside is the survivors tend to be even more radical than before the war.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:03 PM (ZPrif)

88 83 Michelle is jealous of how marvelous Assad's wife looks in anything.


Well, then no First Lady is safe.

---

The picture of the First Wookie giving a death-glare to Carla Bruni at an event during 2009 comes to mind.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:03 PM (a3iAA)

89 They already are, which has prompted Assad to state that the Muslim Brotherhood is a front group for the Jooooooooooos.


Holy crap! The MB is the Clayton Bigsby of the Middle East??!?!

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:03 PM (GQ8sn)

90 85 It's like saying just stand back and let Chicago gang bangers off each other then arrest the last shooter standing; it's not solving the problem

it would if they weren't such shitty shots

Posted by: navycopjoe at June 17, 2013 01:04 PM (UWEUP)

91 It's like saying just stand back and let Chicago gang bangers off each other then arrest the last shooter standing; it's not solving the problem.

---

It may not solve the problem but it cuts down on the amount of problems they cause other people while they're doing it.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:04 PM (a3iAA)

92 Don't worry. TOP. MEN.

Such as the venerable John McCain.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 17, 2013 01:04 PM (r+7wo)

93 Those Muslims, you just can't keep them happy

Posted by: The Mayor of Marseilles at June 17, 2013 01:04 PM (EXemq)

94 The Sunni side.
Posted by: steveegg at June 17, 2013 12:58 PM (o44nj)

I have a plan.

We arm, train and provide an air force for the Christians in the region. And WE raise mercenary armies to go help them.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 01:05 PM (OQpzc)

95 61 I supported the Afghan War, and Iraq. I deeply, deeply regret that now.I fell for the neocon"hearst and minds" bullshits, and was (and still am) livid over 9/11.
But One US soldier or contractor is worth 1,000, no, 10,000, no, 1 millionof those ungrateful primitive goatfuckers. I'm not just saying this becuase Zero is President, I don't want one more drop of US blood spilled over there for nation-building or "peace-keeping" missions.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet


I'm in the same camp.

Posted by: backhoe at June 17, 2013 01:05 PM (ULH4o)

96 ...what is it Syria could possibly have that we might want???
Posted by: BurtTC at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (TOk1P)


Saddam's WMDs?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at June 17, 2013 01:05 PM (4df7R)

97
Choosing up sides, its almost like somebody wants a world war.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 17, 2013 01:05 PM (g5YAm)

98 Invictus, Israel did that when they took over southern Lebanon. The Phalangist Chrisitan militias offed a bunch of refugees in a camp. Which the MSM played for its worth on how evil the Jews and Christians were.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:06 PM (UVBO7)

99 "Once they are wasted away from killing each other we can figure out what comes next."

...Being sure to bump off whoever is left after the carnage, of course...

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at June 17, 2013 01:07 PM (vd7A8)

100 The problem is, Christians make up 5% tops.

Posted by: steveegg at June 17, 2013 01:07 PM (o44nj)

101 Hmm... I see that there are some issues in Turkey... it seems like the Islamic hardliner is the President, so we'll intervene and assist him in his war against Christianity. I mean rebels. Or whatever. Carney will know what to say.

Posted by: Prezzy for Life Obama at June 17, 2013 01:07 PM (z63Tr)

102

and Where are the Saudis in this anyway?

Have they chosen a side?


Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 12:57 PM (nqBYe)

They choose whoever is Sunni. The Saudis love proxy wars because it solves their foreign policy questions with money, of which they have plenty, rather than people, of which they have few. This is all about wounding Iran and keeping it off balance, plus advancing Sunni (and Wahabbist) hegemony. The first is good for us, the second not so great. But nobody on our side seems to think that far ahead.

Posted by: joncelli at June 17, 2013 01:07 PM (RD7QR)

103 What could possibly go wrong......

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 17, 2013 01:07 PM (32Ze2)

104 You know what's different with this Middle East crisis and all other past Middle East crises? This time you've got me, that's what.

Posted by: President For Life Obama at June 17, 2013 01:08 PM (EXemq)

105 NEW YORK (WABC) -- A Newark-bound United Airlines flight is carrying a passenger who reportedly informed the crew that he "poisoned everyone on board."

United Flight 116, from Hong Kong, is set to land at 2:05 p.m. (about an hour from now)

The passenger is being restrained by other passengers.

Posted by: Danny Werfel at June 17, 2013 01:08 PM (e8kgV)

106 Choosing up sides, its almost like somebody wants a world war.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 17, 2013 01:05 PM (g5YAm)


You rang?

Posted by: Gavrilo Princip at June 17, 2013 01:08 PM (o44nj)

107 We arm, train and provide an air force for the Christians in the region. And WE raise mercenary armies to go help them.
Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 01:05 PM (OQpzc)


-----------------------------------------


Let's keep the mercenaries here. We may need them.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:08 PM (eKXog)

108 Gavrilo, stop picking up the phone with your black hand!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:09 PM (UVBO7)

109 I await some principled four -star officer to demand that this stop and throw his stars on the table.

......Crickets.........


They all have read the intelligence reports. They know who the al-Nusra Front is. The top commanders in the Army and Marines are totally in sinc with this blatantly illegal act by the Obama Regime.

Romeo13 is right. This is in direct contravention to the UN Charter, of which we are a signatory to.

There is no military leadership left with any integrity or honor. They are all whores. This is where we are.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes more nonsense ...... at June 17, 2013 01:09 PM (RFeQD)

110 Drew wrote, "The last part is key...we should do enough to keep the fight going but not enough to help the rebels win. Let them fight and bleed for another year, two or more. I don't care. Once they are wasted away from killing each other we can figure out what comes next."

As a reminder, there are tens of thousands of Syrian civilian refugees flooding the borders of neighboring states such as Turkey and Jordan, seeking sanctuary. Without any hard numbers available and based on previous wars of this type, I would guess the number of noncombants killed, raped,tortured, starved, burned, blasted and outright killed probably rivals the number ofkilled and wounded combatants.And by 'noncombatants', I mean mainly children, women, the elderly.

Deliberately prolonging a war so that both sides manage to bleed each other for as long as possible sounds like the evil scheme of a James Bond villain. I don't like my country doing James Bond villain stuff. Why? Because it's...what's the word? Wrong, that's it. It's fucking wrong. We shouldn't be doing it.

Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 01:09 PM (vtiE6)

111 We arm, train and provide an air force for the Christians in the region. And WE raise mercenary armies to go help them.

---

Yeah, there's a film about something like that from the late 70s based on mysterious stories about a supposed real-life incident 10 years prior.

It didn't quite go to plan.

Posted by: The Wild Geese at June 17, 2013 01:09 PM (a3iAA)

112 Hmm... I see that there are some issues in Turkey

They have a president who ran as a kind of moderate but is actually a hardcore Islamist goatfucker trying to force his will on the country against its Constitution.

Wait a minute, I can see why Obama feels a kindred spirit.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 17, 2013 01:09 PM (B/VB5)

113 Totally with you, Drew.
Let 'em bleed out all by themselves with us supplying weapons to both sides.
A couple of tactical nukes wouldn't hurt. No delivery system, just hand carried. ;-)

Posted by: Nick Shaw at June 17, 2013 01:10 PM (vo6Vk)

114 ♪ ♪ Keep on the Sunni Side, always on the Sunni side.
Keep on the Sunni side of life. ♪♪

Posted by: House of Saud - The Musical at June 17, 2013 01:10 PM (nELVU)

115 Thanks for the Answers on Who and why Russia, Saudis and others are backing whom.


Posted by: willow at June 17, 2013 01:10 PM (nqBYe)

116 Is South Africa still trying to have this Administration arrested?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:10 PM (UVBO7)

117 When it comes to mideast war I like the Derbyshire Doctrine-- More Rubble, Less Trouble.

Leave them alone, but if and when they act up and lash out at us, bomb their capital, then bounce the rubble, and tell em to stop it. Repeat as necessary. No nation building. No invasion. Just tell whoever's in charge to keep the barbarians in check. If he can't, nuke him for orbit, and tell the next warlord to keep the savages in check. Rinse and repeat as necessary. Eventually some warlord will get the message and keep the savages in line to save his own head.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:10 PM (ZPrif)

118 Well, I definitely know a rebel is Al Qaeda when I see him.

Posted by: Zombie Justice Potter Stewart at June 17, 2013 01:11 PM (5RUlF)

119 Choosing up sides, its almost like somebody wants a world war.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 17, 2013 01:05 PM (g5YAm)


--------------------------------------------------


Chaos. Odolph and his regime need chaos.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:11 PM (eKXog)

120 Uh oh....Pixy Rainman goin full retard again.

Posted by: eleven at June 17, 2013 01:11 PM (KXm42)

121 Oh, don't worry, the Top Men we have on this assure us that the groups receiving weapons will be "carefully vetted"

Just like in Libya

Top Men are on this ... TOP MEN!

Posted by: kbdabear at June 17, 2013 01:11 PM (/9IC1)

122 The 'More Rubble' doctrine has not really helped Russia with Chechnya. But there is a problem of a physical border between the belligerents.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:12 PM (UVBO7)

123 lol, Snowden threw us a bone.

You see his comment about the 'lies of the Gang of Eight'?

This on the heels of discovering that the White House was puppeteering the whole process secretly to make it look bipartisan.

I hope that one line gets lots of press.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:12 PM (El+h4)

124 Grand Mufti Barry: This will work out just as well as Libya did. Allah Akbar!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 17, 2013 01:12 PM (1Jaio)

125 You mean the Grand Muffer Barry?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:13 PM (UVBO7)

126 its the House of Saud who want the Med Port.

Iran as crazy gatekeeper of the straight of Hormuz would be pretty irritating...

Cutting a deal with Iraq to build pipelines north through Syria makes the Kurds happy and tamps down their irritability.

All you need is some chumps like AQ to topple a recalcitrant regime. Let'em bask in their "win" for a bit before you move in and wipe them all out and install a stable pipeline friendly government.

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:13 PM (rVul6)

127 Surprise! The Strongest Rebel Group In Syria Is The One Affiliated With Al Qaeda
Get OUT!!!!

Posted by: Elaine Benes at June 17, 2013 01:13 PM (sbV1u)

128 Russia plans to block any no-fly zone over Syria at the UN. Failing that, what are they going to do when TFG does set one up?


F-22 vs T-50.


Place your bets.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:13 PM (GQ8sn)

129 All they need are a couple thousand double barrel shotguns to shoot through the doors.

Posted by: Joe Biden at June 17, 2013 01:13 PM (Aif/5)

130 Choosing up sides, its almost like somebody wants a world war.

Hey, I've been waiting a long time for this.

On
the plus side, the IDF will resolve the question of their nuclear
capability, and Putin and the Islamists really won't enjoy the demonstration.

Posted by: Ezekiel 38 at June 17, 2013 01:14 PM (B/VB5)

131
"The passenger is being restrained by other passengers."

Of course he is. TheTSA is only good for fondling little boys' genitals.

As Iowahawk so eloquently put it, we have a massive, instrusive Big BrotherState because Immigration forgot to enforce20 overstayed visas in 2001.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at June 17, 2013 01:14 PM (5RUlF)

132 Anyone know where the Libyan mustard gas went?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:14 PM (UVBO7)

133 I say we give both side fifty billion each.Then we sell arms to both sides and make a buttload of money.

Posted by: SOMEASSHOLESTOLEMYPEN at June 17, 2013 01:15 PM (n8115)

134
'Grab your coat and get your hat
Leave yourIED on the doorstep
Life can be so sweet
On the sunni side of the street

Can't you hear the pitter-pat
Seethat happy goat onyour step
allah makes youcomplete
On the sunni side of the street.

I used to walk in the shade with my blues on parade
But I'm not afraid...thisjihadi hascrossed over

If I never had a cent
I'd be rich as that Yasser fella
The blood of infidels to wash my feet
On the sunni side of the street'

Posted by: Zombie Louis Armstrong at June 17, 2013 01:15 PM (4Lbfn)

135 I wish I had something brilliant and pithy to say about the situation in the Middle East. But I am speechless.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:15 PM (9Bj8R)

136 EC, the PAK T-50 I think is still in development. So MiG-29s and Su-27s? Assuming we have sorted out the OBOGS problem that seems to kill F-22 pilots.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:15 PM (UVBO7)

137 Fair point about Chechnya, but Chechnya occasionally flares up, and Russia bombs them and it calms down. It's been going on since Russian conquered them.
It's not a problem that ever goes away completely.
But artillery shelling and aerial bombing once a decade is pretty cheap.
It's also different since Russia is determined to hold onto Chechnya territory. We aren't looking to hold any mideast territory.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:16 PM (ZPrif)

138 132
Anyone know where the Libyan mustard gas went?


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:14 PM (UVBO7)

Everywhere but where we wanted it to go.

Posted by: joncelli at June 17, 2013 01:16 PM (RD7QR)

139 EC, the PAK T-50 I think is still in development. So MiG-29s and Su-27s?


Thought they started fielding those.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:16 PM (GQ8sn)

140 Chechnya occasionally flares up, and Russia bombs them and it calms down. It's been going on since Russian conquered them.

I would've agreed with this until Chechnya "flared up" at the Boston Marathon.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 17, 2013 01:17 PM (B/VB5)

141 Here is what I would like to see as conditions for any and all future foreign military interventions, no matter what administration is in charge:

1. What is the vital US national security interest at stake?

2. What are our goals for entering the conflict?

3. What are our victory conditions?


Obviously, a plan never survives first contact and all that, but at least I would like to see broad outlines. This whole "oh we'll go in and help and then decide what to do" bullshit that's been going on since, what, late Vietnam or even earlier, is utterly insane.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:17 PM (VtjlW)

142
It still is mind boggling sometimes that not yet 12 years after 9/11 we have an America destroying president siding with the same al queda that vaporized 5,000 US citizens.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 17, 2013 01:17 PM (g5YAm)

143 Sooner or later, someone is going to be experiencing a very bright flash.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:18 PM (eKXog)

144 Anyone know where the Libyan mustard gas went?




Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:14 PM (UVBO7)





Joey Biden: I like it on hot dogs and sometimes on pretzels.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 17, 2013 01:18 PM (1Jaio)

145 It still is mind boggling sometimes that not yet 12 years after 9/11 we have an America destroying president siding with the same al queda that vaporized 5,000 US citizens.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 17, 2013 01:17 PM (g5YAm)


And coming to a UN near you: Samantha Powers

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:19 PM (9Bj8R)

146
Barrack, buddy, yer doin it wrong.

Posted by: Zomied Teddy "Rough Rider" Roosevelt at June 17, 2013 01:19 PM (nELVU)

147 Fair point about Chechnya, but Chechnya occasionally flares up, and
Russia bombs them and it calms down. It's been going on since Russian
conquered them.




They tried their own version of genocide a few years back, but their commanders were inept and got their asses handed to them fighting the Chechens house to house. They don't do that anymore. They just bomb or shell from afar.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:19 PM (GQ8sn)

148 horrible about that plane. Hopefully it's just a nutter.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:20 PM (ZPrif)

149 Just another manic migraine Monday, which tends to bring out the heartless side of this old bitch, so I won't denounce myself for revealing that I do not care if a bunch of savages whose hearts and minds are stuck in the 14th century insist upon murdering each other down to the last man, woman, and child. It was obvious that the Arab Spring was a ploy to roll back any gains made by women or moderates to accommodate the hard line mullahs and imams. So be it, since that is what these people gravitate towards.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at June 17, 2013 01:20 PM (+/zXs)

150 Edward Snowden, America's most-wanted whistleblower, participated in a live on line chat with The Guardian on Monday.

Snowden thinks his revelation of the NSA spy program gives President
Obama with "an opportunity to appeal for a return to sanity,
constitutional policy, and the rule of law rather than men.






Barry - constitutional policy and the rule of law? What is Snowden smoking/sniffing/drinking?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 17, 2013 01:20 PM (1Jaio)

151 Hold on Morons, I'm being distracted by the FBI digging in a field for Hoffa again

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 17, 2013 01:21 PM (jJA/4)

152 Snowden thinks his revelation of the NSA spy program gives President

Obama with "an opportunity to appeal for a return to sanity,

constitutional policy, and the rule of law rather than men.




He's horribly naive.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:22 PM (GQ8sn)

153 @150: It's a bizarre article of faith with Dems that Barry is The Authority on the Constitution. One lefty tech blogger wrote the day after PRISM came out that "this is especially disappointing because of Obama's background as a Constitutional law professor".

Posted by: Ian S. at June 17, 2013 01:22 PM (B/VB5)

154
You've entered a place where everything is topsy-turvey; where right is wrong, where politicians and bureaucrats war against productive citizens, wherethe national interest is defined what's worst for America, and where a country is deliberately committing suicide.

You've entered....the Obama Zone.

The OZ, for short.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at June 17, 2013 01:22 PM (5RUlF)

155 Hold on Morons, I'm being distracted by the FBI digging in a field for Hoffa again
Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 17, 2013 01:21 PM (jJA/4)


Waldo has nothing on Hoffa

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:22 PM (9Bj8R)

156 Well first flight was in 2010. Russia might buy 150-200 while India plans to buy 200. I chuckle in a macabre way at the article on Global Security. If those production numbers hold solid, the US will find itself third in number of stealth fighters in service - after India and Russia.

Flight Global says operational testing of the T-50 is supposed to start in 2014.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:23 PM (UVBO7)

157 In other news, I see no possible way for this to go wrong.

http://bit.ly/12QJ4AY

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:24 PM (VtjlW)

158 Hahahaha, I won bitches.

Posted by: Sleeper cell Obama at June 17, 2013 01:24 PM (0n1+D)

159 157
In other news, I see no possible way for this to go wrong.



http://bit.ly/12QJ4AY

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:24 PM (VtjlW)

Think of the dog videos you could get out of one of those.

Posted by: joncelli at June 17, 2013 01:25 PM (RD7QR)

160 The Grand Mufti love him some Adolph. The new one will love some Odolph.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 01:25 PM (OQpzc)

161 AlextheChick, remember that robot from the horrible Val Kilmer Mars movie. AIMEE I think it was called.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:25 PM (UVBO7)

162 Obama was never a law professor. He was a lecturer. A position his backers forced Chicago to award him despite minimal qualifications.

It's like claiming a single A minor league player in the Yankees farm system was a star pitcher for the NY Yankees.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:26 PM (ZPrif)

163 We're coming!

Posted by: Robot Spiders at June 17, 2013 01:26 PM (B/VB5)

164 Not so long ago, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said it expected
the U.S. government to register a budget deficit in the current fiscal
year of $642 billion. But hold on a minute… The budget deficit so far
(as of May 31, 2013) has already hit $626.3 billion, and we still have
four more months to go in the government’s current fiscal year!

Posted by: Lanny Davis at June 17, 2013 01:26 PM (e8kgV)

165 AlextheChick, remember that robot from the horrible Val Kilmer Mars movie. AIMEE I think it was called.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:25 PM (UVBO7)



Red Planet. Yes, the robot that inexplicably has a Kill All The Things! switch.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (VtjlW)

166 Snowden thinks his revelation of the NSA spy program gives President Obama with "an opportunity to appeal for a return to sanity, constitutional policy, and the rule of law rather than men.
This guy has a real problem with the whole "irony" thingy.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (sbV1u)

167 It is not an unimportant fact that the rebels are fighting the who's who of American antagonist.
While I don't fully support the "Enemies of my enemies" doctrine, I would suggest one consider the depths of the propaganda strength that the forces arrayed against the rebels have at their disposal. What we know for certain is this is potentially a huge black eye for Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, Russia, China, et all. OR, it'll be a huge win and expansion of their power.

The US may not be able to determine who our winning side is, but we sure as hell can see who our losing side would be.

Posted by: TSgt Ciz at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (xcAaF)

168 It's Sunnis vs. Shia's ... again, and we should just sit back quietly and watch. When two animals with rabies are fighting to the death, there is no reason to do anything until we get a winner.

Posted by: and irresolute at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (DBH1h)

169 In other news, I see no possible way for this to go wrong.

http://bit.ly/12QJ4AY

Posted by: alexthechick


Fear not. It'll just jump on top of the nearest couch in any room and go into sleep mode.

( notice none of these advanced robots have solved the power problem. )

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (XS/b3)

170 Comparing it to last year, May 2013’s budget deficit was 11% higher than that of May 2012.

Posted by: Lanny Davis at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (e8kgV)

171 In other news, I see no possible way for this to go wrong.



http://bit.ly/12QJ4AY

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:24 PM (VtjlW)




http://youtu.be/KTcOOzD-JQs

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:28 PM (GQ8sn)

172 Send diseased blankets, not US servicemen.

Posted by: dogfish at June 17, 2013 01:28 PM (nsOJa)

173 The enemy of our enemy is our enemy.

Life sucks.

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 17, 2013 01:28 PM (cAINy)

174 We're coming!
Posted by: Robot Spiders at June 17, 2013 01:26 PM (B/VB5)

You did get the Just The Guys With Beards software patch, yes?

If not, abort abort, abort.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 01:28 PM (OQpzc)

175 This guy has a real problem with the whole "irony" thingy.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (sbV1u)


You know how I said earlier today that some people were so naive they were going to get eaten by Outside and/or other humans. Yeah.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:29 PM (VtjlW)

176
I have an acquaintence who is an Alawite Christian Syrian, and she and her family are rooting for Assad.

The devil you know...plus they know thatthey're history if the Islamists take over.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at June 17, 2013 01:29 PM (5RUlF)

177 It's not just the US in decline. It's the whole world. There's no longer any safe places to go. The Mayans may have been more correct than we give them credit.

btw. Saw "Apocolypto" again last night. Many parallels. I do like that movie.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:29 PM (eKXog)

178 Obama was never a law professor. He was a lecturer. A
position his backers forced Chicago to award him despite minimal
qualifications.



It's like claiming a single A minor league player in the Yankees farm system was a star pitcher for the NY Yankees.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:26 PM (ZPrif)



Mariano Obama: Have you seen my throwing arm? I could've been a CyYoung award winner

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 17, 2013 01:29 PM (1Jaio)

179 Red Planet was the dumbest movie ever. Crippled spaceship and you the captain send your chief engineer down to the planet.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:29 PM (UVBO7)

180
Nerve gas, Al-qaeda, Iran, and Russia. Right next to the cointry hated by every small minded bigot and progressive (BIRM) in the world.

This ends with a nuclear exchange. Hopefully a LIMITED nuclear exchange.

Pray for intelligent guidance of our leaders. But I have not seen any yet.

Posted by: rd at June 17, 2013 01:30 PM (D+lxs)

181 Saw "Apocolypto" again last night. Many parallels. I do like that movie.

---

As Parker and Stone put it, "Mel Gibson may be a crazy son of a bitch, but he sure knows story structure!"

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:30 PM (a3iAA)

182 The US may not be able to determine who our winning side is, but we sure as hell can see who our losing side would be.
Posted by: TSgt Ciz at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (xcAaF)


That's not so clear to me. An Al Quada dominated Syria might be damn worse than an Assad Dominated Syria, who while supported by Iran and Hezbellah, still has very different interests than them.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (9Bj8R)

183 You know how I said earlier today that some people were so naive they were going to get eaten by Outside and/or other humans. Yeah. Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:29 PM (VtjlW)
On the plus side, Vendette and I have procured a lovely souvenir for you to take home from theNoVAMoMee.
So you got that goin' for ya. Which is nice.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (sbV1u)

184 This ends with a nuclear exchange. Hopefully a LIMITED nuclear exchange.

---

MEIN FURHER~! I CAN WALK!

Posted by: Dr. Strangelove at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (a3iAA)

185 Meanwhile, our Mocha Messiah prances around a pool with a toy gun and tweets the pic as a salute to Father's Day, as schoolchildren are suspended for using NERF guns IN CLASS, WITH TEACHER PERMISSION, as part of a math assignment, and a 14 year-old student who wore an NRA t-shirt to school is facing criminal charges of obstructing an officer because he refused to take the shirt off.

I fucking hate this regime.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (4df7R)

186 Sometimes I wonder if Putin wishes he had a worthy opponent in the White House instead of TFG. Reagan he most assuredly is not.

Posted by: Jmel at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (9tSXa)

187 OK...WTF did Pixy do with my paragraph breaks?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (sbV1u)

188 Criticism of our President's wise policy toward Syria is only the latest manifestation of the birtherism that emanated from last year's Romney campaign.

Posted by: The L.A. Times Editorial Staff at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (5RUlF)

189 Saw "Apocolypto" again last night. Many parallels. I do like that movie.


I remain neverendingly amused by how many reviewers were shocked, shocked I say, about the amount of violence in that movie. Yes. Violence in a movie about the Mayans. Who would ever have expected that.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (VtjlW)

190 http://youtu.be/s4VlruVG81w

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:32 PM (UVBO7)

191 This ends with a nuclear exchange. Hopefully a LIMITED nuclear exchange.

As I was just saying...

Posted by: Ezekiel 38 at June 17, 2013 01:32 PM (B/VB5)

192 OT: Jeb thinks we're all 'chirpers'

Wzippers.


Posted by: FUBAR at June 17, 2013 01:32 PM (Cs2tJ)

193 Red Planet was the dumbest movie ever. Crippled spaceship and you the captain send your chief engineer down to the planet.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:29 PM (UVBO7)



Every Star Trek episode: What's wrong with that?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 17, 2013 01:33 PM (1Jaio)

194 Obama only gets away with the con law professor lie because a) voters don't understand how academia works and b) the Dem-media complex keeps repeating the lie.

It'd be like a rich American paying Manchester United to accept his fat, slow son in their youth training academy -- just buying a spot -- so he could come back to America and claim he used to play for Man United. It only works in countries where people don't follow soccer and the media will keep up the lie.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:33 PM (ZPrif)

195 OT: Jeb thinks we're all 'chirpers'

Wzippers.


Posted by: FUBAR at June 17, 2013 01:32 PM (Cs2tJ)


Why these Rhino's think it is a good idea to insult conservatives is beyond me?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:33 PM (9Bj8R)

196 Yes. Violence in a movie about the Mayans. Who would ever have expected that. Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (VtjlW)

You mean, they weren't Noble Savages?

Posted by: Some Fuckin' Anthropology PhD at June 17, 2013 01:34 PM (sbV1u)

197 AlextheChick, it has not penetrated many craniums the evidence that disproves how 'peaceful' the Mayans were. When Mayans play ball, its a death match as we have found out.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:34 PM (UVBO7)

198 Why these Rhino's think it is a good idea to insult conservatives is beyond me?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:33 PM (9Bj8R)

They hate us. Most will turn democrat prior to 2014.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 17, 2013 01:34 PM (Cs2tJ)

199 Graham thinks we can win with Jeb in 2016!!! Yippeee

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:34 PM (nH8jP)

200 F-35 is the best stealth fighter ever -- its presence in the air is completely undetectable...

...since its spends all its time on the ground.

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:34 PM (rVul6)

201 Who would ever have expected that.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (VtjlW)

The native American tribes that sparsely populated North America before the arrival of the filthy white man were peace-loving and respectful of the earth.

If you deny that you are a racist.

Posted by: California State College graduate at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (WW8xK)

202 They were noble savages. Especially the savages part.
1% noble and 99% savage still counts as a "noble savage", right?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (ZPrif)

203 Calm down people! All we need are more television shows with people dancing and everything will work out fine.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (V1ZIU)

204 F-35 is the best stealth fighter ever -- its presence in the air is completely undetectable...

...since its spends all its time on the ground.
Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:34 PM (rVul6)

ouch. That's gonna leave a mark

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (9Bj8R)

205 Graham would wouldn't he.

Posted by: dogfish at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (nsOJa)

206 156 Well first flight was in 2010. Russia might buy 150-200 while India plans to buy 200. I chuckle in a macabre way at the article on Global Security. If those production numbers hold solid, the US will find itself third in number of stealth fighters in service - after India and Russia. Flight Global says operational testing of the T-50 is supposed to start in 2014.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:23 PM (UVBO7)


F-35s don't count?

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (ioT3q)

207 shhh .....don't tell the Sioux

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:36 PM (nH8jP)

208 #166
He's just mocking Obama now.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:36 PM (El+h4)

209 Leave Stark Trek alooOOOooone!!!!!!



Anyway why would you send the freaking Captain down into an at best dicey situation?

{And the First Officer}

Posted by: eleven at June 17, 2013 01:36 PM (KXm42)

210 I remain neverendingly amused by how many reviewers were shocked, shocked I say, about the amount of violence in that movie. Yes. Violence in a movie about the Mayans. Who would ever have expected that.
Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:31 PM (VtjlW)


---------------------------------------------


You mean Mayans AND Aztecs.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:36 PM (eKXog)

211 Mayans ....Aztecs...


Same thing.

Posted by: eleven at June 17, 2013 01:37 PM (KXm42)

212 'Ba-ba, Da-dah-da-dah,Do- dwee-do-dwee!'

Posted by: Zombie Louis Armstrong at June 17, 2013 01:37 PM (4Lbfn)

213 The native American tribes that sparsely populated North America before the arrival of the filthy white man were peace-loving and respectful of the earth.
I am always amused that the La Raza types demand that we "give back" the American Southwest to Mexicans.
But they never demand that Mexicans give back Mexico to the native peoples.
Oh, right, they killed them all. Never mind.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:37 PM (sbV1u)

214
altho, the Sioux did not ritually sacrifice their children for rain.

They did like to war some though

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:37 PM (nH8jP)

215 F-35s do not count because they are not optimized for stealth.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:38 PM (UVBO7)

216 As much of a benefit as it might be to many young people, I would have a hard time advising a young adult to join the military. Between its leadership and what passes for civilian leadership, how much faith could you have in telling them their country will be there for them?

Posted by: ejo at June 17, 2013 01:38 PM (GXvSO)

217 F-35s do not count because they are not optimized for stealth.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:38 PM (UVBO7)


Or anything else

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:38 PM (9Bj8R)

218 Yes, give them heavy weapons immediately. Who are these fucking guys?

Muzzie Brotherhood JUST FUCKING SAID AMERICA IS THE ENEMY.

Yet we give them fighter jets, tanks and billions.

Posted by: Prescient11 at June 17, 2013 01:39 PM (tVTLU)

219 Mayans ....Aztecs... Same thing.
Posted by: eleven at June 17, 2013 01:37 PM (KXm42)



"Everyone always forgets us..."
-The Incas

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at June 17, 2013 01:39 PM (4df7R)

220 #201

lol

Though of course, levels of savagery varied from group to group, and our own government (no surprise) and people with interest used the actions of the more savage groups against the more industrious and peaceful groups.

The Mayans (and the Aztec after them) were known for their tyranny and savagery. Cortez simply used their own tyranny against them by co-opting a whole group they terrorized to help him fight them.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:39 PM (El+h4)

221 OK...WTF did Pixy do with my paragraph breaks?


If you quote something that is not one contiguous paragraph, or has breaks in it, you have to give yourself at least 4 line breaks before typing your reply.


Figured that out the hard way.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:39 PM (GQ8sn)

222 F-35s don't count?

The surviving Curtis Jennys have a better uptime record...and about the same radar profile

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:39 PM (rVul6)

223 Olmecs and Toltecs hardest hit.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (UVBO7)

224 If you deny that you are a racist.
Posted by: California State College graduate at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (WW8xK)

It is kind of hard to abuse mother nature when you've never gotten around to even inventing the wheel, much less the true genius that went into inventing the axle.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (OQpzc)

225 Baracka is a Muslim Brotherhood guy, always has been, always will be. Its the only fraternity he has ever belonged to

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (nH8jP)

226 Also Americans committed Genocide even though the vast majority of the amerindian population had already died from diseases brought by Spanish and Portuguese conquistadors before English settlers even arrived.

Which is why the English colonists thought God had designed perfect clearings to settle -- they had been cleared by the amerindians.

95% of amerindians died without ever seeing a european. Disease traveled along their trading networks faster than the white man did.


But, yep, America -- a country that didn't exist before 1776 -- committed a genocide caused by diseases brought by Spaniards in 1492, 300 years earlier.

Oh, and that genocide was apparently willful even though it occurred hundreds of years before the germ theory of disease was discovered.

Spaniard conquistadors literally thought it was God striking down the unbelievers with plagues.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (ZPrif)

227 #217

Hey, who says planes have to be optimized for FLYING. I mean, at our level of technology and sophistication I think we can get beyond such traditional concerns.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (El+h4)

228 141 - Hell yes, even #2 and #3 given some thought would help.

South East Asia was a fucking disaster of the highest proportions for all sorts of reasons, but at least the dubious ally we were supporting (South Vietnam) represented no clear and present danger to the West. Such is not the case here. It might have been an excusable mistake at the time (without the benefit of hindsight) to equip and train the Mujahaddin (sp?) for the purpose of giving grief to the Russians, but playing that game in the Middle East now can only end in misery, and it's not as if we can excuse such a blunder on buttlicking "intellectual" advisors who were still kids when all that shit went sour; we have the recent example of Libya to point to.

You want the kudos that comes with lending a helping hand? You want to call the shots? You put skin in the game. How much? As much as is necessary to dominate the strategic picture. In this case, two or more reinforced infantry corps with the appropriate air and logistic support seems about right to start. If you're not willing to do that, don't act all surprised when the situation starts turning to shit and the former allies you got to their goal with pinprick air strikes tell you to go fuck yourself at the end of the war.

Posted by: perturbed at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (u6Ueb)

229 The native American tribes that sparsely populated North America before the arrival of the filthy white man were peace-loving and respectful of the earth.If you deny that you are a racist.
Posted by: California State College graduate at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (WW8xK)


-------------------------------------------


Confronted and indian lib about this not to long ago. He was saying that American indians were peace loving, walkers of the earth.

I then asked him why so many of the tribes have bragged about their history of having brave "warriors".

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:41 PM (eKXog)

230 The F-35 suffers from being a "committe design".

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:41 PM (rVul6)

231 The F-35 suffers from being a "committe design".



Worst idea ever.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:42 PM (GQ8sn)

232 #224

Actually, I think a stronger argument is that these folk were the aftergroups from a previous civilization, not primitives. Cast aways from an earlier iteration of Chinese interstate / intergroup conflict (includes the Mongols of course.)

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:42 PM (El+h4)

233 Spaniard conquistadors literally thought it was God striking down the unbelievers with plagues.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (ZPrif)

I give 'em a pass. They hadn't even invented the germ theory of disease until the 1800s.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 01:42 PM (OQpzc)

234 This is like saying the Chinese caused a genocide in Europe with the Black Plague (thought to have started in China I believe).

Medieval Chinese were racist against whites (and everyone else) and would likely have been happy to see the lesser races wiped out -- if they had any idea how any of that worked.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:42 PM (ZPrif)

235 Incas?....Olmecs and Toltecs?


Now you people are just making shit up.

Posted by: eleven at June 17, 2013 01:43 PM (KXm42)

236 Anasazi in the hizz-ouse.

Posted by: lincolntf at June 17, 2013 01:43 PM (ZshNr)

237 The F-35 suffers from being a "committe design".

I would only point out that....they said that about the M-1 back in the day too.
And....I am no fan of the F-35 in any variant.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:43 PM (sbV1u)

238 The F-35 suffers from being a "committe design".



Worst idea ever.
Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:42 PM (GQ8sn)

And we all knew it from day 1.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 01:43 PM (9Bj8R)

239 Its like my Queen so succinctly put it. Let Allah sort em out.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (XIxXP)

240 Worse problem with the F-35 was, no one really stood up and said no we can't make this brick house carry the toilet paper. TFX Pt II.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (UVBO7)

241 I would only point out that....they said that about the M-1 back in the day too.


The M1 was a multi-national design?

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (GQ8sn)

242 Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (OQpzc)

Oh, I don't know about that.

The plains indians would hunt buffalo by running them off cliffs and river banks, then harvesting the top layer.

And many tribes would dump garbage any where they felt like it, then simply move the camp when it got too filthy.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (WW8xK)

243 Modern leftism is fetishizes the 'noble savage.' It's an underpinning of environmentalism and multi-culti, even though it's the height of racism.

Posted by: zsasz at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (MMC8r)

244 You mean Mayans AND Aztecs.
Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:36 PM (eKXog)


Peacefullest evah!


The native American tribes that sparsely populated North America before the arrival of the filthy white man were peace-loving and respectful of the earth.

If you deny that you are a racist.
Posted by: California State College graduate at June 17, 2013 01:35 PM (WW8xK)



The (late, lamented) BFF was full blood Mohawk. It was always hilarious to watch her react to the peaceful and Gaia loving bullshit. She was also always super peaceful when I would hand her a blanket.


Do you know how hard it is to explain why someone is beating you with her purse and you are falling over laughing in the middle of a Canadian Tire?

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (VtjlW)

245 The M1 was a multi-national design? Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (GQ8sn)

The initial work started as a German-U.S.-Britain project.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:45 PM (sbV1u)

246 One size fits all doesn't work with clothing or airplanes. Never has.

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:45 PM (rVul6)

247
Author and historian Mark van de Logt wrote: "Although military historians tend to reserve the concept of “total war” for conflicts between modern industrial nations, the term nevertheless most closely approaches the state of affairs between the Pawnees and the Sioux and Cheyennes. Both sides directed their actions not solely against warrior-combatants but against the people as a whole. Noncombatants were legitimate targets. ... It is within this context that the military service of the Pawnee Scouts must be viewed."



this historian must be disappeared!

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:45 PM (nH8jP)

248 Invictus, yeah, that's my point.

There was no Genocide. There was a, sadly inevitale, great die-off of the Amerindian population after contact with Europeans. 95-98% die off from population peak.

Even the common cold was lethal to many amerindians who had no immunity.

How did 100 Spaniards with a few guns and some horses defeat Aztec armies with tens of thousands of soldiers?

Not as hard as it looks when they all are getting ravaged by a dozen diseases and can barely walk.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:45 PM (ZPrif)

249 #229

Right, they were for the most part as peace loving as the Vikings. Which is to say, erratic at best, proud and often easy to provoke to warfare. That's the pattern for most non-city tribal pagans, in reality. There are relatively few groups that we could really classify as 'peaceful'. More of them than that you could negotiate and trade with, but some were just vicious.

There's not a lot unique about them, in my view, when compared to tribal groups across the world.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:45 PM (El+h4)

250 Time machine. Rouseau. Pistol. Good idea.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:46 PM (UVBO7)

251 Akimel O'odham, representin'.

Posted by: garrett at June 17, 2013 01:46 PM (4Lbfn)

252 One size fits all doesn't work with clothing or airplanes. Never has.

Nope.

Never will either.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:46 PM (sbV1u)

253 I still don't see why we have to do anything at all in Syria. Why can't we just stay out of it completely and deal with whatever comes out on top?

Posted by: MrShad at June 17, 2013 01:46 PM (Xqfwb)

254 Coexist!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 01:47 PM (Z2Bkq)

255 And many tribes would dump garbage any where they felt like it, then simply move the camp when it got too filthy.

---

You mean I lived a lie?!?

Posted by: Iron Eyes Cody, aka Espera Oscar de Corti at June 17, 2013 01:47 PM (a3iAA)

256 I still don't see why we have to do anything at all in Syria. Why can't we just stay out of it completely and deal with whatever comes out on top?
Posted by: MrShad at June 17, 2013 01:46 PM (Xqfwb)


No shit. I recall a similar concern when tens of thousands were being murdered in Darfur.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 01:47 PM (XIxXP)

257 The last part is key...we should do enough to keep the fight going but not enough to help the rebels win. Let them fight and bleed for another year, two or more. I don't care. Once they are wasted away from killing each other we can figure out what comes next.
------------------------------------

Yes, let's be complicit in more innocent children being murdered. They may be Syrian children, Drew, but they are still honored in the eyes of God.

And what is it with all the "we" shit, Drew? You do understand that the "we" you keep mentioning is the US GOVERNMENT right?

The SAME US government that collects all our data. The same US government that is about to import 40 million Hispanics against our will. The same US government that goes after political groups via the IRS. There is no "we" as in the government representing the interests of the American people. That includes every fucking Republican in Washington DC as well.

Seriously Drew, pull your head out of your ass and expand the depth of your unbelievably shallow view of reality.


Posted by: Bamboozled at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (LNGpC)

258 The initial work started as a German-U.S.-Britain project.


Germany still makes the barrels for them?

At least they all agreed the sole purpose of the M1: kill other tanks.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (GQ8sn)

259 It helped when the Spaniards came ashore in Mexico they were mistaken for gods by the Aztecs. But what really helped was all the other tribes who had grudges to settle with the Aztecs. After that the Aztecs' days were numbered. Even without disease.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (UVBO7)

260 Coexist!
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 01:47 PM (Z2Bkq)


I saw a new one the other day. Tolerance! I nearly tolerated the front of my car into the rear of that one.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (VtjlW)

261
Time machine. Rousseau. Pistol. Good idea.

Excellent idea. Get Hegel too. And Engels, without whom that asshole Marx would have had to actually work for a living.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (Z2Bkq)

262 214 altho, the Sioux did not ritually sacrifice their children for rain.They did like to war some though
Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:37 PM (nH8jP) -------------------------
Yeah, I get sick of the whole"white manstarted slavery and the peaceful, nature loving "Native Americans" (Indians)...didn't many tribes raid and take slaves ? Wasn't Sacajawea a slave? and you know what fucking else? I will never call Squaw Peak here in Phoenix the new and improved politically correct"Piestawa Peak.

Posted by: Guido 'new and improved with 50% more hate at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (8I9hB)

263 Sean you talking about the earlier XM-70 MBT that petered out. But from it emerged the Leopard and M-1 designs.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:49 PM (UVBO7)

264 Germany still makes the barrels for them? At least they all agreed the sole purpose of the M1: kill other tanks. Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (GQ8sn)

I don't think so. I think they're all coming out of Watervliet right now, but I'm not really sure.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:49 PM (sbV1u)

265
all native peoples had the same religion, belief systems, mores, culture, language, reputation for peacefulness and history

just like all of Europe!!

dum dums

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:49 PM (nH8jP)

266 The (late, lamented) BFF was full blood Mohawk. It was always hilarious to watch her react to the peaceful and Gaia loving bullshit. She was also always super peaceful when I would hand her a blanket. Do you know how hard it is to explain why someone is beating you with her purse and you are falling over laughing in the middle of a Canadian Tire?
Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (VtjlW)


Did you remember to cough on it first?

Posted by: buzzion at June 17, 2013 01:49 PM (LI48c)

267 Sean you talking about the earlier XM-70 MBT that petered out. But from it emerged the Leopard and M-1 designs. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:49 PM (UVBO7)


Yes. And we went to Chobham armor at least initially.

But technically, MBT-70 did not include Britain, although a lot of their tech informed some design elements of the tank.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:50 PM (sbV1u)

268 #259

Plus Cortez is kind of a crazy Alexander-like figure; both a devoted Catholic and a womanizer; intelligent and opportunistic but honorable enough to be loved by his men.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:50 PM (El+h4)

269 I will never call Squaw Peak here in Phoenix the new and improved politically correct"Piestawa Peak.

---

Start calling it Puta Peak and see if you get a better reaction than calling it Squaw Peak.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:50 PM (a3iAA)

270 Is there anyone left that doubts Obama is a Muzztard?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 01:50 PM (XIxXP)

271 266 The (late, lamented) BFF was full blood Mohawk. It was always hilarious to watch her react to the peaceful and Gaia loving bullshit. She was also always super peaceful when I would hand her a blanket. Do you know how hard it is to explain why someone is beating you with her purse and you are falling over laughing in the middle of a Canadian Tire?
Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:44 PM (VtjlW)

Did you remember to cough on it first?

---

She had to find a Chinese man with SARS to rub all over it first.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:51 PM (a3iAA)

272
I saw a new one the other day. Tolerance! I nearly tolerated the front of my car into the rear of that one.Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (VtjlW)

You showed great forbearance.

The "Coexist" one really pisses me off. It manages simultaneously to be moronic, sanctimonious, morally preening, and childish. How would those sporting that bumper sticker have advised Daniel Pearl to "coexist?" Hey, assholes, it takes two to coexist.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 01:51 PM (Z2Bkq)

273
My fav. myth about the Native Americans is the 'They only took what they needed from the land. Never wasted a thing.'.

To which I present The Buffalo Jump.

Posted by: garrett at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (4Lbfn)

274 Hey, who says planes have to be optimized for FLYING. I mean, at our level of technology and sophistication I think we can get beyond such traditional concerns.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (El+h4)


For fighter planes designed to be aerodynamically unstable (for manueverability), I think you can argue that we have indeed not optimized them for flying. = P

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (ioT3q)

275 The F-35 suffers from being a "committe design".Worst idea ever.
Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:42 PM (GQ8sn)


---------------------------------------------


The F35, hopefully, is our last foray into the "MacNamara Doctrine" of one size fits all. It didn't work then and hasn't worked since.

The whole military procurement system needs to be completely revamped.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (eKXog)

276 I don't think so. I think they're all coming out of Watervliet right now, but I'm not really sure.


I remember reading something about a German company making barrels for the M1, maybe a story that ace posted here since this is a "smart, military blog". The story concerned the pros-cons of the smoothbore vs rifled barrels. Smoothbore performed better than rifled, at least IIRC.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (GQ8sn)

277 America deserves blame for african slavery, since America allowed it for a 90 years after the Revolution.

It's crazy that Americans accept blame for a genocide against Indians that they didn't do and never happened.

Genocide requires intent and willful action. If you cough and, unbeknownst to you, that kills off 95% of an ethnic group -- you haven't committed genocide. Even if you hated those people.

Nazis killing jews was genocide. Spaniards coughing on amerindians was not.

Europeans hated black Africans more than amerindians -- but Africa is still filled with black people because they had resistance to euro diseases.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (ZPrif)

278 ....they said that about the M-1 back in the day too.

There's a difference between tanks and planes though. The weight penalty for correcting a tank fuckup doesn't ripple through the whole mechanical design quite the way it does on a plane.

An extra 500-1000lb to fix a fuckup on a tank isn't a big deal. Its something of course, bearings wear a bit quicker, maybe some shaft needs to be a tad bigger or get a different heat treat, but its not going to have major impact on the performance envelope of the whole package

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (rVul6)

279 Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 01:48 PM (VtjlW)

NOW you're talking!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (sbV1u)

280 EC that is the Rhinemetal 120mm smoothbore vs the earlier British designed rifled L7 105mm.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 01:53 PM (UVBO7)

281
>>> Is there anyone left that doubts Obama is a Muzztard?

He's Rashid Khalidi's Dancing Boy.

Posted by: garrett at June 17, 2013 01:53 PM (4Lbfn)

282 The "Coexist" one really pisses me off. It manages simultaneously to be moronic, sanctimonious, morally preening, and childish.

Yes. Every time I see one I remember the idea someone had to print up a bunch of Post-Its that say "Hi, someone put a bumper sticker on your car that makes you look like an unthinking prog idiot" or similar wording. Don't think it ever happened though.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 17, 2013 01:53 PM (B/VB5)

283 #274

Maneuverability? Seems like more of that dated 'flying optimization'. We can simply figure out where the target will be by scanning all communications and point the guns there. No need for 'maneuvers'.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 01:53 PM (El+h4)

284 maybe some shaft needs to be a tad bigger

I tell Barack that all the time. But does he listen?

Posted by: Reggie Love at June 17, 2013 01:54 PM (B/VB5)

285 EC that is the Rhinemetal 120mm smoothbore vs the earlier British designed rifled L7 105mm.


Anna, you're my hero(ine)!

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:54 PM (GQ8sn)

286 I think we should just mind our own business. I've
heard this argument that keeping the fight going, without allowing a
winner, is a win-win. But it seems like we're just stirring a hornets
nest in doing that.

Posted by: Brewer at June 17, 2013 12:48 PM (eV1I0)

This is Afghanistan of the '80s. The only difference is that this time we know the side we are backing wants to kill us when they are done with Syria. We kinda missed that in Afghanistan. We need to sit this one out and let Israel handle it. They'll be able to destroy both sides if we just cut them loose to do it.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at June 17, 2013 01:54 PM (NoGMg)

287
is NSA tracking Rashid Khaledi's electronic footprint?

I would like to know who he wastalking toon Sep 11, 2012.

heh

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:54 PM (nH8jP)

288 And "Rhinemetal" is the perfect name for a German heavy metal band.

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:54 PM (GQ8sn)

289 For fighter planes designed to be aerodynamically unstable (for manueverability), I think you can argue that we have indeed not optimized them for flying. = P
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (ioT3q)


--------------------------------------------------


So unstable, as a matter of fact, that modern fighters must have computer assisted fly-by-wire systems in order for them to be controllable at all.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:55 PM (eKXog)

290 There's a difference between tanks and planes though. The weight penalty for correcting a tank fuckup doesn't ripple through the whole mechanical design quite the way it does on a plane. An extra 500-1000lb to fix a fuckup on a tank isn't a big deal. Its something of course, bearings wear a bit quicker, maybe some shaft needs to be a tad bigger or get a different heat treat, but its not going to have major impact on the performance envelope of the whole package Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (rVul6)
No, I hear ya. I think my more generic point is that everyone pans a new system until the bugs are worked out, usually years later.

However, I think I'm in pretty good company in saying - it's going to take way too long and cost too much money to work the bugs out of this design.

Buy more Super Hornets.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 17, 2013 01:55 PM (sbV1u)

291 The Spaniards couldn't have wiped out the amerindian populations with conventional weapons if they wanted to. Europeans kinda tried in Africa and didn't make a dent. Machine guns vs spears.

Disease was the overwhelmingly dominant factor in what happened in the Americas.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:55 PM (ZPrif)

292 282 The "Coexist" one really pisses me off. It manages simultaneously to be moronic, sanctimonious, morally preening, and childish.

Yes. Every time I see one I remember the idea someone had to print up a bunch of Post-Its that say "Hi, someone put a bumper sticker on your car that makes you look like an unthinking prog idiot" or similar wording. Don't think it ever happened though.

---

Coexist isn't the only problem.

I find that the number of bumper stickers on a car is inversely proportional to how considerate someone is. Asshole liberals, for example, will tend to have 10-15 obnoxious bumper stickers on their car.

I find it is like bright coloration on a snake in nature... a sign of someone you don't want to be around.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 01:56 PM (a3iAA)

293 The Coexist sticker also puts Islam first and Christianity last.
Probably not an accident.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:56 PM (ZPrif)

294 The F35, hopefully, is our last foray into the "MacNamara Doctrine" of one size fits all. It didn't work then and hasn't worked since. The whole military procurement system needs to be completely revamped.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (eKXog)


Last foray into manned fighters?

At some point, the limitation of the human pilot is going to encourage someone to make the jump.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 17, 2013 01:57 PM (ioT3q)

295
It helped when the Spaniards came ashore in Mexico they were mistaken for gods by the Aztecs. But what really helped was all the other tribes who had grudges to settle with the Aztecs. After that the Aztecs' days were numbered. Even without disease.

Exactly. The Reds have rewritten history to assert that 300 Spaniards with muzzle-loading blunderbusses conquered a million Aztecs, confident in the knowledge that their followers are too stupid to figure out the obvious flaw in that scenario.

Of course, they've also convinced LIVs that white men came ashore insufficient force toenslave a few hundred Africans (presumably a number of whites roughly comparable to the number of slaves, since they have to physically overpower, not kill, the captives), and then sail off with them. No one ever seems to ask about the logistics of this, another obvious flaw in the narrative.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 01:57 PM (Z2Bkq)

296 I agree, Drew, let Iran and Hezbollah bleed dry. IOW use the Reagan Strategy that weakened the Soviets.

Iran's new moderate (heh) leader I think is an olive branch to an angry populace, tired of war and privation. Keep it up!

Posted by: PJ at June 17, 2013 01:57 PM (ZWaLo)

297 Also Americans committed Genocide even though the vast majority of the
amerindian population had already died from diseases brought by Spanish
and Portuguese conquistadors before English settlers even arrived.


I read a story not long ago that suggested parts of North America were heavily populated, but it was the Vikings who inadvertently brought over the diseases that killed most of them.

Under this theory (the Vikings didn't keep good records) most Native Americans had died of disease long before Columbus or the English settlers had landed.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 17, 2013 01:58 PM (SY2Kh)

298 Baracka is a Muslim Brotherhood guy, always has been, always will be. Its the only fraternity he has ever belonged to

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 01:40 PM (nH8jP)



Barry: Well I was a platinum member at Man's Country and I used to fraternize there a lot.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 17, 2013 01:59 PM (1Jaio)

299 Nood.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 17, 2013 01:59 PM (ioT3q)

300
293 The Coexist sticker also puts Islam first and Christianity last. Probably not an accident.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:56 PM (ZPrif)


I blame the alphabet.

Posted by: buzzion at June 17, 2013 01:59 PM (LI48c)

301 I read a story not long ago that suggested parts of North America were
heavily populated, but it was the Vikings who inadvertently brought over
the diseases that killed most of them.



So 'filthy Scandis' is entirely correct?

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 01:59 PM (GQ8sn)

302 Can I help?

Posted by: SMOD at June 17, 2013 02:02 PM (wXcOC)

303
The Coexist sticker also puts Islam first and Christianity last.

Probably not an accident.


Of course it's not by accident, otherwise it would be "TOEXISC", which doesn't make a lot of sense.

Posted by: King Putt at June 17, 2013 02:02 PM (qoQi/)

304
I read a story not long ago that suggested parts of North America were heavily populated

I very much doubt that that was true; it sounds like more revisionist history.

The Indians were a Stone Age people. How could they possibly generate enough economic activity to support a large population. Recall that many of the tribes were nomadic, and that requires enormous tracts of unpopulated land. I've read that maybe the entire continent of North America (i.e., including Mexico)held a few million souls, at most.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 02:03 PM (Z2Bkq)

305 So 'filthy Scandis' is entirely correct?

Let's just say it's a good idea to break out the hand sanitizer if forced to shake their hand.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 17, 2013 02:03 PM (SY2Kh)

306 @248
An armored Spanish conquistador force with swords, muskets, horses and cannons was not a morale booster for (brave, granted) warriors with stone axes and skin armor.

Disease was a huge factor. Tribal politics another. Aztecs were not popular with other tribes.

Posted by: Beagle at June 17, 2013 02:03 PM (sOtz/)

307 For fighter planes designed to be aerodynamically unstable (for manueverability)

I don't see anything aerodynamically on the F-35 that would make it inherently unstable.

Its got enough vertical/horizontal tail surface to be stable in pitch/yaw, there's some rear sweep on the wings. People have made R/C models of them that were controllable by human hands.

They may be playing games with center of gravity though. A rearward C/G can be twitchy in the extreme. A computer could manage that.

Aerodynamically unstable is things like -- forward swept wings (yaw increases drag on inside amplifying the yaw), anehedral -- wings bent down rather than up (ex Vaught F8 Crusader, F-104 Starfighter), too small a rudder can induce dutch roll tendency, too small horizontal stabilizer can induce porpoising and sluggish then "all in" control response.

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 02:05 PM (rVul6)

308 Sure, but euros tried the same tactics in Africa -- and only carved out a small spot in Southern Africa where they could build up even a decent minority demographically.

The nearly complete demographic replacement in the Americas only was possible due to disease.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 02:06 PM (ZPrif)

309 And the only parts of the Americas where the natives were able to resist long-term were the extreme highlands in places like Peru and the extreme jungles in places like Guatemala.

Disease and geography were determinative.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 02:07 PM (ZPrif)

310 Europeans hated black Africans more than amerindians -- but Africa is still filled with black people because they had resistance to euro diseases.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (ZPrif)

They had resistance to yellow fever and malaria that killed 50% of euros that came to the fever islands. That is the sole reason they got picked. Not because anyone hated them.

Getting assigned to a fever islands squadron was damned near a death sentence.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 02:07 PM (OQpzc)

311 Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 02:05 PM (rVul6)

Wasn't talking about the F-35. Just being a smartass to someone who made a comment about designing planes to fly.

If the instability would result in them flying into the ground without (computer) intervention, I argue they're not designed to fly. = P

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 17, 2013 02:12 PM (ioT3q)

312 As a non-ME, I may also be abusing the terminology. Apologies.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 17, 2013 02:13 PM (ioT3q)

313 "Deliberately prolonging a war so that both sides manage to bleed each
other for as long as possible sounds like the evil scheme of a James
Bond villain. I don't like my country doing James Bond villain stuff.
Why? Because it's...what's the word? Wrong, that's it. It's fucking
wrong. We shouldn't be doing it."


I agree with this. 100%

Posted by: holygoat at June 17, 2013 02:15 PM (vAiDn)

314
313 "Deliberately prolonging a war so that both sides manage to bleed each other for as long as possible sounds like the evil scheme of a James Bond villain. I don't like my country doing James Bond villain stuff. Why? Because it's...what's the word? Wrong, that's it. It's fucking wrong. We shouldn't be doing it."I agree with this. 100%
Posted by: holygoat at June 17, 2013 02:15 PM (vAiDn)


Huh?

Posted by: Iran-Iraq War at June 17, 2013 02:17 PM (LI48c)

315 My point is you can take a physical aerodynamic layout that would otherwise exhibit naturally positive (or neutral) stability and render it unstable with C/G changes...

Even things like anhedral don't necessarily produce instability. The negative effects of anhedral can be mitigated by lowering vertical C/G (producing a "pendulum" effect of sorts).

Forward sweep on wings is straight up unstable and the only way to counteract that is with some forceful yaw control mechanism (bigger rudders, long tails, or active shit like a computer.

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 02:22 PM (rVul6)

316 So...

A Ga'ould Death Glider is an improbable flying machine.

It has forward swept wings with no counteracting yaw control devices, anhedral and too high a vertical C/G to counteract the nasty roll characteristics of anhedral.

Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 02:25 PM (rVul6)

317 Because it's...what's the word? Wrong, that's it. It's fucking wrong. We shouldn't be doing it.

Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 01:09 PM (vtiE6)
Keeping those murderous bastards busy so they don't kill our kids is wrong? Then I don't want to be right.

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 02:29 PM (p7BzH)

318 and too high a vertical C/G to counteract the nasty roll characteristics of anhedral.
Posted by: Purp at June 17, 2013 02:25 PM (rVul6)

Anti-grav means you could fly a rock. I like the design.

Posted by: Invictus at June 17, 2013 02:35 PM (OQpzc)

319 A question - isn't supplying Al Queda with arms the very fucking definition of Treason? Hasn't anyone mentioned giving fucking aid and comfort to Al Queda might be construed as a federal capital offense?

Shouldn't we real Americans keep records of each person involved in this for eventual prosecution? And isn't Treason without any statute of limitations?

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at June 17, 2013 03:20 PM (XVdnk)

320
Sure, but euros tried the same tactics in Africa -- and only carved out a small spot in Southern Africa where they could build up even a decent minority demographically.

Surprisingly, South Africa was unpopulated when Europeans settled there. The Zulus came later.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 17, 2013 03:26 PM (Z2Bkq)

321 The whole military procurement system needs to be completely revamped.

Posted by: Soona at June 17, 2013 01:52 PM (eKXog)

~

Change Military to Government and I'll second and third that sentiment.

Posted by: Mr. Feverhead at June 17, 2013 03:31 PM (SzAZ7)






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