Transcript Of My Debate With Paul Ryan On “Amnesty”

As someone who is opposed to “comprehensive immigration reform” of the kind moving through the Senate (though I do support legal immigration and legal immigrants) I was excited to see this from Congressman Paul Ryan.

"Earned legalization is not amnesty," Ryan said during a forum on immigration sponsored by the National Association of Manufacturers. "I will debate anybody who tries to suggest that these ideas that are moving through Congress are amnesty. They're not. Amnesty is wiping the slate clean and not paying any penalty for having done something wrong."

I’m “anybody” and I certainly believe what’s moving through Congress is amnesty, so naturally I accepted the Congressman’s courageous offer and agreed to debate him.

My opening statement:

Congressman you say, "Earned legalization is not amnesty”. Perhaps I’m the wrong person to have this debate with. You should probably take that us with Senator Rubio who has said, “Earned path to citizenship is basically code for amnesty." Of course you’d need a time machine because he said that in 2010 when he was running for office against this very kind of amnesty the two of you are now pushing.

You say it’s not amnesty because illegal immigrants will have to pay a fine (which can be waived), back taxes (which may not actually happen), undergo background checks and wait years to get citizenship.

Well, other than paying back taxes, that’s what anyone who wants to become a legal resident of the United States has to do. That’s EXACTLY why this is amnesty. It’s actually worse than amnesty since the person who broke the law will get to live in the United States while undergoing the same process as the legal applicant who has to wait back home.

But look at all the crimes the illegal alien has committed in the process that won’t be punished.

If an illegal immigrant came here on a legal visa but didn’t leave they are supposed to be removed and barred from the US.

The 1996 reform created two new grounds of inadmissibility for foreign nationals who remained in the US after the expiration of the period of stay authorized by the Attorney General through the immigration inspector at the time of entry.

a. The Three Year Bar: Persons who remain in the US after their authorized stay has expired for more than 180 days but less than one year, and who leave the US prior to the institution of removal proceedings, are barred from reentering the US for three years from their date of departure.

b. The Ten Year Bar: Persons who remain in the US after their authorized stay has expired for more than one year, and who leave the US prior to the institution of removal proceedings, are barred from reentering the US for ten years from their date of departure.

Since the Schumer-Rubio bill says the only people eligible for amnesty are ones who were here before 2012, that means that everyone who qualifies should be barred from entering the US for TEN YEARS.

Since staying in the country is the goal, it seems a simple fine isn’t actually a punishment compared to removal and the inability to come back for years, if ever. Instead of being sent to the back of the line for entry to the US, they go right to front. How is that punishment?

As for people who simply cross the border illegally, right now the penalty is jail time.

a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

I’m sure most Americans who commit a misdemeanor that leads to 6 months of jail time would LOVE to simply pay $500 to get out of it. But that’s a deal only open to non-US citizens under the Schumer-Rubio-Ryan approach to things.

Oh, about those back taxes Congressman Ryan mentioned. In order to owe taxes a person had to have had been employed. In fact, having a job is one of the requirements for amnesty according to Senator Rubio.

Well, to have a job a person have to fill out an I-9 from (pdf) certifying the are eligible to work. Here’s the part where the employee has to sign.

View image

Hmmm, penalties including jail time and fines for providing false information? Signing the form under “the penalty of perjury”? Will every illegal who comes forward and who claims to have worked illegally be prosecuted for those crimes? No? You mean it will be like, “wiping the slate clean”? But don’t call it amnesty!

Well, maybe all the illegals here started their own businesses and didn’t fill out an I-9. Oh, that’s not legal either.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
with title 18, or both.

To sum up, the "punishment" that illegal aliens will go through involves complying with the the current legal immigration process. The crimes they won't be charged with or punished for include (but aren't limited to) border jumping/visa overstay, perjury and providing false documents to gain employment/illegally establishing a business.

How is that not amnesty Congressman?

Congressman?

PaulRyanChair.JPG

Yes, it’s amnesty. Simply making people who came here illegally go through the same process as legal immigrants isn’t a punishment. Hell, that they get to stay here is a reward! That Schumer-Rubio (after 2010)-Ryan and Obama say otherwise doesn't change that fact.

Now I don’t honestly expect Paul Ryan to debate me on this (though I’d be happy to) but he has to debate a couple of credible amnesty opponents otherwise he’s going to sound like a giant gasbag who talks tough but doesn't have the guts to follow through.

Posted by: DrewM. at 09:52 AM



Comments

1 The fix is in, our betters have decided.

Time to bend over, folks.

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 09:57 AM (p7BzH)

2 Its amnesty and screw Ryan along with ratshit rubio.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 09:57 AM (lZvxr)

3 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 09:58 AM (/PCJa)

4 My opening statement:


I would simply repeat my opening statement from the other day.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 09:58 AM (VtjlW)

5 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 09:58 AM (/PCJa)

6 What part of "just follow the existing law" do these idiots not understand?

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 09:58 AM (lZvxr)

7 My next bill will be legislation guaranteeing immunity for all congressmen who violate their oaths of office.

Posted by: Congressman Paul Ryan (cocksucker) at June 17, 2013 09:59 AM (WW8xK)

8 otherwise he’s going to sound like a giant gasbag who talks tough but doesn't have the guts to follow through Republican politician.

Saved you some keystrokes.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:00 AM (/PCJa)

9 Ask Paul Ryan if he is going to open his front door and let in a host of bums and deadbeats to live with him.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 10:00 AM (lZvxr)

10 In before the rage monkeys call for armed insurrection?

Posted by: Fritz at June 17, 2013 10:00 AM (G9Mmf)

11 I never did think Paul Ryan was a real conservative. Now I KNOW he isn't.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 10:01 AM (lZvxr)

12 In before the rage monkeys call for armed insurrection?

I don't think anyone is calling for armed insurrection. Several of us have been pointing out that's where this kind of rogue government often leads, however.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:02 AM (/PCJa)

13 What part of "just follow the existing law" do these idiots not understand?
Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 09:58 AM (lZvxr)


That is my biggest problem with all these "super" bills. If we don't enforce the existing laws, why pass new ones?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 10:02 AM (9Bj8R)

14 I liked this movie. Especially the ending where the Mexicans fight the monkeys on horseback to take over america and then Chuck Heston's capsule returns.. Good times., good times

Posted by: Yip at June 17, 2013 10:02 AM (/jHWN)

15 The Republican Party- For the Rule Of Law, except when it's mildly inconvenient.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:02 AM (/PCJa)

16 Hey girl,

That thing that just happened in your mouth? Definitely not amnesty.

Posted by: Paul Ryan at June 17, 2013 10:03 AM (BrQrN)

17 Hiya, Paulie R. Mind if I use your john? I had some extra cheap chalupas just now

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at June 17, 2013 10:03 AM (LggOY)

18 Damn crapweasels.

Posted by: dogfish at June 17, 2013 10:03 AM (nsOJa)

19 , actually I just *used* your john. I was hoping we could wipe the slate clean. And by the slate, I mean your john, and by we I mean you.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at June 17, 2013 10:04 AM (LggOY)

20 What part of "just follow the existing law" do these idiots not understand?


Posted by: Vic


I'm certain that most of them don't even know the existing laws and that is a big problem.

Posted by: dogfish at June 17, 2013 10:04 AM (nsOJa)

21 Why doesn't Gabe write similar posts defending comprehensive immigration reform?

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:05 AM (AO9UG)

22 Is there anyone running in 2014 who is opposed to amnesty?

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 10:05 AM (lZvxr)

23 I would simply repeat my opening statement from the other day.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 09:58 AM (VtjlW)



*earmuffs*

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 10:05 AM (GQ8sn)

24 *earmuffs*
Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 10:05 AM (GQ8sn)



Oh pish posh it wasn't that bad.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 10:06 AM (VtjlW)

25 That is my biggest problem with all these "super" bills. If we don't enforce the existing laws, why pass new ones?

Exactly. Even where there are problems (it bugs me, for instance, that E-Verify (or it's equivalent) is not required prior to hiring someone), why not just add targeted bills which address those specific problems?

And the reason is- then Amnesty would never pass. If you passed a bill (which would get broad American approval) that made E-Verify required for all employers prior to hiring any employee, and imposed penalties that would make Microsoft of Apple think twice, there would be no support for a second bill that then said, "And everyone who is here illegally is now legal. Yay!"

Because the American people don't want amnesty.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:06 AM (/PCJa)

26 Benghazi
IRS
EPA
HHS
State Department
Why would you even look at a bill? Find out what the fuck is going with your government. How about a budget we can see?


Posted by: coolidgerules at June 17, 2013 10:06 AM (P72oI)

27 The Republican Party of stupid actually thinks they have to pander to the illegals to win the next election. They don't understand that the Democrats are not pushing this crap because they think it will help Republicans.


They ARE stupid.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 10:06 AM (lZvxr)

28 jwest, the Granny Slayer loves amnesty and death panels.

Pattern?

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:07 AM (AO9UG)

29 Did I miss an epic rant from AlextheChick?

Do I want to find the follow up to this? Probably the French government reversed itself. Ah well twas a brief shining moment of sanity.
http://www.eutimes.net/2012/12/french-government-cuts-immigrants-welfare-by-83/

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 10:08 AM (UVBO7)

30 I have so many stab wounds in my back from Republican's, I'm bleeding out.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 17, 2013 10:08 AM (Cs2tJ)

31 Earned ejaculation is not amnesty. I will debate anybody that the sploogefiring downyour throat is amnesty.

Posted by: Paul Ryan at June 17, 2013 10:08 AM (BrQrN)

32 Did I miss an epic rant from AlextheChick?


It wasn't even a rantlet! All I said was that if I were to debate someone I would start with this: "Good evening. Thank you for permitting me to speak with you this evening. May my opponent be thunderfucked with the Barbed Cock of Satan. I reserve my remaining time for rebuttal."

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 10:10 AM (VtjlW)

33
I so-had such high hopes for Rep. Ryan. But unfortunately, he's just another D B, with a much better media presence, and back story.
Let's just take this down to what it really is and call it 'condoning law breaking' and just get it over with, shall we ?
Each and every time one of these 'New Conservative' types goes and does this sort ofcrud, thenit's up to us to get in their faces and call 'em out...and I do mean 'every time'...
BTW, how are you-all today....? Any random clicking on your phone...?

Posted by: Uncle Kevvie at June 17, 2013 10:10 AM (gZD5/)

34 They ARE stupid.
Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 10:06 AM (lZvxr)

No, they are not. Their goal is to win a steady fraction of the pie each election. They are happy to be in second place because even there they are way ahead of the rest of us.

They are and are happy to be Assistant Democrats.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:10 AM (AO9UG)

35 otherwise he’s going to sound like a giant gasbag who talks tough but doesn't have the guts to follow through.
========
Who couldn't even beat the braying jackass Biden in a debate . . . .

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 17, 2013 10:11 AM (VjL9S)

36 Ryan and Rubio are not the men we need at this time.

We need those (man or woman) to take hits when they stand on principle and of course stand for the Constitution.

Posted by: mare at June 17, 2013 10:11 AM (A98Xu)

37 I have so many stab wounds in my back from Republican's, I'm bleeding out.

Posted by: FUBAR at June 17, 2013 10:08 AM (Cs2tJ)



Hell, at this point I would be thrilled to be stabbed in the back and not the face.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 10:11 AM (VtjlW)

38 You say it’s not amnesty because illegal immigrants will have to pay a fine (which can be waived), back taxes (which may not actually happen), undergo background checks and wait years to get citizenship.

And for everyone who tried to defend Rubio and Paul last week by saying, "Ted Cruz is for Amnesty, too!" Here's why you're wrong.

Ted Cruz specifically opposes any path to citizenship.

Allowing some temporary legal status is "amnesty" if you define amnesty as "not immediately rounding up every illegal in the nation and sending them home." It is not "Amnesty" which allows someone to become a US Citizen.

(Also- even that is naive, but I'm thinking he's decided something is going to pass, so his job is to make it suck as little as possible.)

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:12 AM (/PCJa)

39 The Republican Party of stupid actually thinks they have to pander to the illegals to win the next election.


I'm starting to doubt this is the base reason. Tax revenues? The ponzi scheme demands it?

Posted by: dogfish at June 17, 2013 10:13 AM (nsOJa)

40 >> Posted by: mare at June 17, 2013 10:11 AM (A98Xu)

You always knew Ryan was going to break your heart.

Posted by: Andy at June 17, 2013 10:14 AM (iy7de)

41 These people are CRIMINALS. Like I said in another thread, my husband (a Brit) had to go through the ringer to get his green card. And it cost a hell of a lot more than a grand. He also had to pass a medical examination. Did any of these illegals have to do that? No. Why do you think we have bed bug infestations in our country? Rubio and Ryan can go to hell. This is amnesty, pure and simple, and the rule of law is now dead in our country.

Posted by: Tamminator at June 17, 2013 10:15 AM (XJqBa)

42 I have so many stab wounds in my back from Republican's, I'm bleeding out.

The Republican's what? Which Republican was it, and what did they stab you with? Are you sure the blade wasn't poisoned? Do you feel light-headed yet?

Posted by: Republican with a pugio at June 17, 2013 10:16 AM (WIOg/)

43 I'm starting to doubt this is the base reason. Tax revenues? The ponzi scheme demands it?


Posted by: dogfish at June 17, 2013 10:13 AM



In the forty years since Roe v. Wade, 56 million babies have been aborted in the US. That's quite an undercutting of the tax base.

Posted by: huerfano at June 17, 2013 10:16 AM (bAGA/)

44 I'm starting to doubt this is the base reason. Tax revenues? The ponzi scheme demands it?

I think it's an "all of the above." The chattering consultant class thinks we "need" Hispanics to win elections (never mind that about the best we can hope for is ~35%, and even getting that would not have won 2012 for us). And they're "consultants" so they can't be wrong.

Additionally, Congress is salivating over that supposed tax revenue. Of course, that won't materialize either. The ones who are already evading taxes will continue to do so. The ones who aren't, are already on welfare, and cost the system much more than they put back into it.

Of course, I'm sure (in both cases) the Republicans are sure they'll make it up on volume.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:16 AM (/PCJa)

45 *crickets*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 17, 2013 10:17 AM (GQ72I)

46 And for everyone who tried to defend Rubio and Paul last week by saying, "Ted Cruz is for Amnesty, too!" Here's why you're wrong.

Ted Cruz specifically opposes any path to citizenship.

Allowing some temporary legal status is "amnesty" if you define amnesty as "not immediately rounding up every illegal in the nation and sending them home." It is not "Amnesty" which allows someone to become a US Citizen.

(Also- even that is naive, but I'm thinking he's decided something is going to pass, so his job is to make it suck as little as possible.)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:12 AM (/PCJa)




Hmmm. I'll have to think this through more and also be less energy efficient and see what Cruz has endorsed. My hesitance lies from a concern that giving someone currently here illegally any type of legal status will result in giving people what they want, being here legally, which is de facto amnesty. There is a significant subset of illegals who just don't want to worry about deportation and don't care about citizenship. Shall ponder more.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 10:18 AM (VtjlW)

47 Yes that was positively mild for you. Did you someone slip you some tranquilizers?

Has anyone stood up in the well of the Senate or even the House to show the yearly cost to hospitals for all the illegal immigrants they have to treat?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 10:18 AM (UVBO7)

48 You always knew Ryan was going to break your heart.

Posted by: Andy at June 17, 2013 10:14 AM (iy7de)

That's one way to describe it.

But that pressure on our nether regions suggests a different description.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 17, 2013 10:18 AM (WW8xK)

49 *crickets*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 17, 2013 10:17 AM (GQ72I)


I know this is snark, but it should really scare us a little.

Hillary Clinton is being made to look like a diplomatic/foreign policy genius because of John F'n Kerry. Beyond that, by simply saying nothing, she manages to distance herself from TFG w/o actually doing anything to distance herself from him.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:19 AM (/PCJa)

50
Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:07 AM (AO9UG)

We simply look at things differently.

You are happy to have illegals pouring over the border unchecked, receiving every form of welfare benefit known to man for generations and having a system where even alien rapists and murderers are next to impossible to deport.

You also champion a medical system where every 90 year old with two weeks to live can get hundreds of thousands of dollars in procedures paid for by the taxpayers with no regard to how effective the procedures are.

Is there any question as to why I think you and people who agree with you are idiots?

There are others who agree that things need to change and who have different ideas on how the change can be accomplished, but you aren't one of them. You're happy sitting in a pile of shit and complaining about the smell.

Posted by: jwest at June 17, 2013 10:19 AM (u2a4R)

51 Of course, I'm sure (in both cases) the Republicans are sure they'll make it up on volume.

Word!

Posted by: First CityWide Change Bank at June 17, 2013 10:20 AM (BrQrN)

52 You always knew Ryan was going to break your heart.

Tell me about it. When he didn't swallow, I knew it was not to be.

Posted by: Barney Frank at June 17, 2013 10:21 AM (Cs2tJ)

53 The illegals will keep marching in until the border is sealed.

If you are a Mexican in Mexico on the day this passes will you think, "Damn! I missed my chance to get in!"?

All this bill does is reset the clock for the countdown for the next one. It will be a much shorter countdown for the next one. Once a critical mass of Mexicans become Americans they will decide the fate of both countries and the next reform bill will be a deathstroke.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:21 AM (AO9UG)

54
This country is lost.

Im not a fan of scorched earth policies but I think sometimes its the only option left.

Anyone here who believes that midterms or 2016 can change anything or there might be a peaceful solution to the coming death throes of America are delusional morons.

Posted by: Evil Libertarian at June 17, 2013 10:21 AM (mSg7b)

55 And for everyone who tried to defend Rubio and Paul last week by saying,
"Ted Cruz is for Amnesty, too!" Here's why you're wrong.
======
Hey, I knew without even reading the article Gabe cited that Gabe was lying.

He can't help it--he supports a lie; it is not surprising that he would lie to support that lie.

Maybe he can write a well-reasoned rebuttal wherein he proves once and for all that this amnesty is the only ways to save the Republican Party.

Or he'll burn a half-dozen strawmen after dousing them in napalm grade snark.

Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen!

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 17, 2013 10:21 AM (VjL9S)

56 I'll have to think this through more and also be less energy efficient and see what Cruz has endorsed. My hesitance lies from a concern that giving someone currently here illegally any type of legal status will result in giving people what they want, being here legally, which is de facto amnesty.

I agree completely that it is "an amnesty." The point they were trying to make was that if you still supported Cruz, then it was somehow "unfair" to have turned your back on Rubio and Ryan over this issue. I'm just pointing out that the two things are not the same.

One is a semi-reasonable solution to a problem (one I disagree with, but can see why you'd select it), the other is a complete slap in the face to every naturalized citizen in the history of ever. Not to mention a gross violation of the public trust.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:21 AM (/PCJa)

57 I think it's an "all of the above." The chattering consultant class
thinks we "need" Hispanics to win elections (never mind that about the
best we can hope for is ~35%, and even getting that would not have won
2012 for us). And they're "consultants" so they can't be wrong.


The consultant class is just whoring for the big business Replublican's contributors.

This is all about cheap labor. As usual, the corporate idiots are too short sighted to realize what a permanent Democrat majority will do to them. Support the TEA Party. Kick the RINO whores out during nominations.

Posted by: Kristophr at June 17, 2013 10:21 AM (wYVte)

58 There is a significant subset of illegals who just
don't want to worry about deportation and don't care about citizenship.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 10:18 AM (VtjlW)

Yes, but they are also not stupid, and taking advantage of the looming amnesty makes financial sense.

And....I am curious how Ryan thinks that we will be able to eliminate the wetbacks who are pouring in as we speak, hoping to take advantage of this? These people are, by definition, in the shadows, so how do we prevent newcomers from simply saying, "Si Senor, I was here for many years."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 17, 2013 10:22 AM (WW8xK)

59 *goes back to watching Project EDEN **

* Evolutionary Displacement through Environmental Necessity

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 10:23 AM (UVBO7)

60 And think of this Morons, Ryan and Rubio are being backed by their partner Obama.


That should tell us something right there.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 10:23 AM (lZvxr)

61 Andy, broke my heart....indeed.

Posted by: mare at June 17, 2013 10:23 AM (A98Xu)

62 Where is Ryan's rebuttal? This is DrewM's idea of a debate?

Posted by: polynikes at June 17, 2013 10:24 AM (u+9Sb)

63 I'm starting to doubt this is the base reason. Tax revenues? The ponzi scheme demands it?

A large part of it has to do with the aging demographics of the population. Illegal immigrants are much younger than the general populace, and, because of their largely Catholic religious background, they tend to produce more babies than the general population. You can't fight wars without young people for cannon fodder to serve as soldiers. So the Republican justification is national security.

Posted by: An Observation at June 17, 2013 10:24 AM (ylhEn)

64 Clint Eastwood hardest hit.

Posted by: akula_51 at June 17, 2013 10:25 AM (Vgn84)

65 I'm sure Cheney broke a lot of hearts yesterday also.

Posted by: polynikes at June 17, 2013 10:25 AM (u+9Sb)

66 Support the TEA Party. Kick the RINO whores out during nominations.
Posted by: Kristophr at June 17, 2013 10:21 AM (wYVte)


Toomey.


Ayotte.


Brewer.

Oh and, as always, Rubio.

Yeah. Color me beyond cynical that the primary process is going to solve this problem.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 10:25 AM (VtjlW)

67 Posted by: jwest at June 17, 2013 10:19 AM (u2a4R)

I am not happy to have illegals pouring in. I want the border sealed and the migrants tossed out.

The only person here who advocates denying medical care to folks based on cost and utility is you.

I want people to get all the care they can buy, and if they can't afford it I am happy to help them, voluntarily with no coercion at all.



Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:25 AM (AO9UG)

68 The Republican Party of stupid actually thinks they have to pander to the illegals to win the next election.I'm starting to doubt this is the base reason. Tax revenues? The ponzi scheme demands it?
Posted by: dogfish at June 17, 2013 10:13 AM (nsOJa)
-
Can't be. The Earned Income Tax Credit will cost more than whatever tax revenue would be brought in.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 17, 2013 10:25 AM (gJyfA)

69 This is DrewM's idea of a debate?

Posted by: polynikes at June 17, 2013 10:24 AM (u+9Sb)

It's not that kind of debate. Drew is putting his argument out there, whether Ryan deigns to respond is another question.

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 10:25 AM (p7BzH)

70 I don't get the heavy handed use of lies, slight of hand, and misleading, ridiculous ads running constantly on conservative radio.

Ryan, Rubio, you're killing me.

Posted by: mare at June 17, 2013 10:26 AM (A98Xu)

71 They don't care.

Posted by: ejo at June 17, 2013 10:26 AM (GXvSO)

72 I have said before and will say again, at one time I supported giving the illegals permanent guest worker status.

Then I thought, "What will be the expected outcome of this?"

The expected outcome would be the ACLU filing a lawsuit saying that it is unconstitutional to have a permanent guest worker status, because it makes 2 classes of residents, citizens and non-citizens. There would be a big furor and hints of racism and slavery and such, and it would go to the Supreme Court, where we would probably lose.

Then all of those people who got guest worker status would be deemed citizens and allowed to vote.

So there you have it. Therefore, nothing, and I mean nothing, should pass until the border on BOTH the north and the south are secure. Yes, I know a bunch of Canadians aren't trying to sneak over, but it would be "unfair" to only secure the southern border. Racism you know.

And if they can't do it, then nothing else passes. Period.

Posted by: Miss Marple at June 17, 2013 10:27 AM (GoIUi)

73 Oh, Lord, what did Cheney say yesterday?

*sit's quietly waiting with kleenex box and coagulants*

Posted by: mare at June 17, 2013 10:27 AM (A98Xu)

74 If we are conflating amnesty with citizenship, then sure, Cruz isn't for amnesty.

But it's not like he's opposed to wiping the legal slate clean for those illegally entered.

So you can twist yourself into a few knots semantically, but the point is: The entire GOP leadership is ok with some form of amnesty.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at June 17, 2013 10:27 AM (X4HxX)

75 Rubio:
“There Are American Workers Who, For Lack of a Better Term, Can’t Cut It”…


I hate this cocksucker.




Posted by: Barney Frank at June 17, 2013 10:28 AM (Cs2tJ)

76 Where is Ryan's rebuttal? This is DrewM's idea of a debate?
Posted by: polynikes at June 17, 2013 10:24 AM (u+9Sb)



I see that your reading comprehension skills are as finely tuned as ever.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 10:28 AM (VtjlW)

77 Excellent.

Yeah, the same pro-TARP Paul Ryan "fiscal conservative" who stated on the House Floor:

http://tinyurl.com/kdz9hro

"This bill offends my principles. But I’m going to vote for this bill in order to preserve my principles, in order to preserve this free enterprise system.” ... "If we fail to pass this, heaven help us. If we fail to pass this, I fear the worst is yet to come. Unfortunately, a majority of us have to vote for this. Just maybe, this might work. For my own conscience, so I can look at myself in the mirror this night with a clear conscience, for my family and what is right for their future, as bad as this is, it could get a lot worse. And that is why we have to pass this bill."

Ryan-Rubio road to peondom: We're All Losers!

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 10:29 AM (MhA4j)

78 The politicians want those millions of votes and entries on the entitlement spreadsheets.

They do not give a rat's ass about anything else.

Serfs get nuthin'!

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:29 AM (AO9UG)

79 Posted by: jwest at June 17, 2013 10:19 AM (u2a4R)

You've never met a strawman you didn't like.

Every time I think you have demonstrated that you are one of the dumbest trolls on this blog, you come out with a gem such as this.

You are at the apex of stupid.

My hat is off to you.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 17, 2013 10:30 AM (WW8xK)

80 We should have an amendment to the bill that creates a lottery whereby a certain percentage of senators and reps, along with their staffs forfeit their jobs to an amnestied illegal. Same for labor union leaders and the chamber of commerce. What could be wrong with that? That's what they're saying is okay for us, right?

Posted by: somebody else, not me at June 17, 2013 10:30 AM (29vnO)

81 The only person here who advocates denying medical care to folks based on cost and utility is you.


No he is not exactly. I don't think medical care is a right guaranteed under the Constitution. I don't think the taxpayer should be responsible for unlimited coverage. Insurance should be available for purchase with limits as it is within the private sector. Government insurance should also have coverage limits.

Posted by: polynikes at June 17, 2013 10:31 AM (nETWY)

82 If we are conflating amnesty with citizenship, then sure, Cruz isn't for amnesty.

Actually, Cruz isn't for amnesty. Once more: he opposed the bill while it was in committee (I don't think he's actually on the committee, but he was certainly vocally against it). He opposed even opening the bill for debate. He has tried to get several amendments passed to (preferably) kill the bill or (less preferred) at least make it suck less. He says he will oppose cloture.

What he has said was that if you're going to do this, you must exclude any chance of citizenship.

So, for clarity:
Cruz's preferred options (based on his actions)-
1) No legislative action.
if legislative action will be taken anyway- then:
2) Temporary legalization w/o chance for citizenship.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:31 AM (/PCJa)

83 76 Ryan's aid's could tweet a 'buttal:

"Just maybe, this might work. And that is why we must pass this gas."

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 10:31 AM (MhA4j)

84 So, for clarity:
Cruz's preferred options (based on his actions)-
1) No legislative action.
if legislative action will be taken anyway- then:
2) Temporary legalization w/o chance for citizenship.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:31 AM (/PCJa)


This is where Cruz hurts himself.

Dude, just number 1, no number 2.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:32 AM (AO9UG)

85
I have a politically incorrect thought.

A large influx of Hispanics also dilutes the African American vote. Charlie Rangel almost lost his seat to a Latino candidate. They will all vote dem, but historically black politicians will be replaced by Latinos. Shiela Jackson Lee, I'm looking at you. There is hardly an urban center in the United States where black politicians will be voted out in favor of Latinos.

It dilutes their representation. Do they not know that?

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 10:32 AM (nH8jP)

86 Like many others here, I take personal offense to this having gone through the legal immigration ringer and paying over a grand to get my Danish wife a green card. We Americans are being spit on with this amnesty.

Posted by: Heralder - Law abiding fool at June 17, 2013 10:34 AM (+xmn4)

87 Cruz' number 2 is his fig leaf. He knows it will never ever happen

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 10:34 AM (nH8jP)

88 Dude, just number 1, no number 2.

Politicians gonna politic. Yes, I would prefer just #1, and it's what I would say. But if I were actually to take up my crusade against John Cornyn next year, I'd probably crash and burn in 6 weeks. Tops.

I'm willing to give a pass on this because a) his actions state that his preference is no bill and b) I can at least see why people are okay with legalization w/o citizenship. I was on that side myself for a while (like others, the more I thought about it, the less okay I was with it).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:34 AM (/PCJa)

89 Dude, just number 1, no number 2.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:32 AM (AO9UG)

Well, Cruz by himself can't stop the bill, so he seems to be trying to weaken it as much as he can, though given how his efforts have been stymied to date, this latest one is probably not gonna work either...

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 10:35 AM (p7BzH)

90 I really never gave a whole lot of thought (because I never had to) as to how easy or hard it would be to upend our country, turn it on its ear, completely change its foundation and culture. Turns out, it's going to be easier than I thought. Just add tens of millions of illegals with no respect for our laws, our founding or our Constitution. It's all pretty sad. We had it all and we've tossed it away.

Posted by: Lady in Black at June 17, 2013 10:35 AM (ovWeo)

91 "Now I don’t honestly expect Paul Ryan to debate me on this (though I’d be happy to) but he has to debate a couple of credible amnesty opponents otherwise he’s going to sound like a giant gasbag who talks tough but doesn't have the guts to follow through."



Ryan needs to be called out if he doesn't follow through and debate a serious opponent to this bill, which I don't think he will. I think he'll be cool with being the Evermont King* of the amnesty debate.

*http://tinyurl.com/mk224sz

Posted by: holygoat at June 17, 2013 10:35 AM (IGIFh)

92 Under the guise of "compassion" or "realism" or whatever they want to call it this week, the Gang of 8 ARE preparing the chamber for the summary execution of America.

Lawbreakers are rewarded.

The families of lawbreakers are welcomed, and the families of those families.

Would-be lawbreakers are encouraged.

Any American in a low-paid job now has four times more competition.

All those waiting patiently to become legal immigrants can go to hell.

Rubio & Co. are putting America to death without a qualm. Just because they think there might be a few votes in it for them. (Hint: there aren't.)

Posted by: Erwin at June 17, 2013 10:35 AM (k+Dk7)

93 Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 10:32 AM (nH8jP)

Blacks are caught in a trap. They have no party to turn to and the Democrats have found a new girlfriend.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:35 AM (AO9UG)

94 Salt the earth where it stood.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 09:58 AM (/PCJa) ------

Except for New Yawk. No salt allowed.

Posted by: Guido 'new and improved with 50% more hate at June 17, 2013 10:36 AM (8I9hB)

95 Maybe the GOP is really super smart, and are hoping that by bringing in all of the illegals, they will cause a "civil war" of sorts between the mexicans and the African Americans. And as a result they will really end up the winners because the African Americans will all start voting for GOP because the Dems proved they loved the Mexicans better. Am I right you guys.

Posted by: Need more vodka on my tampon at June 17, 2013 10:36 AM (0n1+D)

96 The IRS is the modern KKK wing of the Democrat Party.

The Democrat Party used the IRS to target political dissidents.

The NSA viewed the election of Mitt Romney as a greater threat than the Boston Marathon bombers.


The leftists are not going to like this new paradise they think they are building at all.

And they'll still be blaming people like you and me as they're being lined up against the wall.

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 17, 2013 10:36 AM (VjL9S)

97 Am I right you guys.
Posted by: Need more vodka on my tampon at June 17, 2013 10:36 AM (0n1+D)

Close, but you left out gay marriage.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:37 AM (AO9UG)

98 I’m sure most Americans who commit a misdemeanor that leads to 6 months
of jail time would LOVE to simply pay $500 to get out of it.

... in California, this already pretty much is the case. Even some felones have been released without a fine because of overcrowded prisons.

Posted by: Porky Pig at June 17, 2013 10:37 AM (e8kgV)

99 Blacks are caught in a trap. They have no party to turn to and the Democrats have found a new girlfriend.

If you mean "no party that will keep offering them other people's stuff" you're right. But they do have a party to turn to. They could turn to the party of the "man who freed the slaves," and the party that passed the Civil Rights act. They could turn to the party that says, "We know you're every bit as capable as anyone else. If you work like anyone else, you'll be rewarded like anyone else."

But they don't want to do that.

Using your analogy, they're that girl who can't get any of the "cool" guys to date her, but wouldn't think of dating that geek- however much of a gentleman he is.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:38 AM (/PCJa)

100
I don't think anyone is calling for armed insurrection. Several of us have been pointing out that's where this kind of rogue government often leads, however.

-------

I'm not calling for armed insurrection. I'm calling for selected application of the 2nd Amendment. If our modern mandarins deem that armed insurrection, then so be it. We are the political enemies of Big Gov anyway, so what's the diff?

Our Founding Founders would have been reloading by now.

Posted by: RickZ at June 17, 2013 10:38 AM (H+3N7)

101
I am serious. Black politicians in NY, NJ, CA, TX, FL will be replaced y Latinos. They will all be dem, but the spoils system will go to the new voting bloc that got them in. Old fashioned "race men" in the bigotry industry like JJJr have been watching their influence erode.

And if you wanna see straight up racism, ask Latinos how they feel about darker skinned Spanish speakers.

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 10:38 AM (nH8jP)

102 If the Mexican people are so great we should want them here, why is Mexico such a $#!+hole?

Some questions just gotta be asked, folks...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, CEO, Hodorburton at June 17, 2013 10:39 AM (zUi7I)

103
As usual, the argument here seems to be "It's amnesty because we're giving them a pass on laws we weren't enforcing in the first place".

No question these bills under discussion suck as a resolution to a huge problem we have. I just don't think you can keep attacking different aspects of them without discussing the how they compare with the status quo. And the status quo has been going on for a long time and isn't going to change in our direction ever.

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 17, 2013 10:39 AM (r5w1L)

104 Posted by: Need more vodka on my tampon at June 17, 2013 10:36 AM (0n1+D)

Heh, the blacks would lose, and are losing in cities where they share ghetto with hispanics. They had better wake the hell up, but they won't.

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 10:39 AM (p7BzH)

105 Thanks Drew, nicely done. Gives me factsto rebutany Lib I run into, but usually after they open their mouth I resort to "go fuck yourself you retard." Feels much better and its all about good feelings with those guys.

Posted by: Guido 'new and improved with 50% more hate at June 17, 2013 10:40 AM (8I9hB)

106 No question these bills under discussion suck as a resolution to a huge problem we have. I just don't think you can keep attacking different aspects of them without discussing the how they compare with the status quo. And the status quo has been going on for a long time and isn't going to change in our direction ever.

Once again, though, if we're not enforcing current law, why would we think they would enforce the new law? If it's too much trouble to deport an illegal when caught now (they're usually released into their own recognizance the first time they're caught), then why won't it be too much trouble after this new law passes?

Congress is acting like the teenager who won't take care of any of his own stuff, and now wants you to buy him a car.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at June 17, 2013 10:41 AM (/PCJa)

107 Wringer. Not ringer.

Posted by: Roscoe P Coltrane at June 17, 2013 10:42 AM (EXemq)

108 Thanks Drew.. well done.

Something new I learned from you.. Before 2012?? Effin' 2012????

I thought it was going to be a minimum of 5 years! 2012?? that's a little over a year! I could fake residency/employment for that long without even trying!

Illegal Jose : Hey, Manuel.. can you sign a document saying I worked for you since 2011?

Illegal Manuel: Si! Si! As long as you return the favor.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 17, 2013 10:45 AM (f9c2L)

109 http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/170881/


So, we're bringing in workers who couldn't cut it in third world crapholes like Mexico,

to replace workers who can't cut it in America.

Got it.



Yep. That's the thinking of these geniuses.

*bangs head against wall*

Posted by: Somewhat Sorry To Offend You at June 17, 2013 10:46 AM (n0B9h)

110 Congress is acting like the teenager who won't take care of any of his own stuff, and now wants you to buy him a car.


My middle stepson once asked his mother and I if we would buy him a Chevy Volt as a graduation gift.

I laughed in his face and told him if anyone was going to drop $50k for a new car, it would be me, for me!

Posted by: EC at June 17, 2013 10:47 AM (GQ8sn)

111 Rule of law?

Never heard of it.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at June 17, 2013 10:48 AM (A98Xu)

112 Using your analogy, they're that girl who can't get any of the "cool"
guys to date her, but wouldn't think of dating that geek- however much
of a gentleman he is.


I think you meant to type "the nerd who can't get the cheerleaders to give him the time of day but refuses to consider the girl who understands math and likes Star Trek." *wink*

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at June 17, 2013 10:48 AM (ZKzrr)

113 #100

When the time comes for it, we must be prepared. Hopefully we can to some extent devolve authority back to the states for a time while things are hashed out on the national level.

'Calling for an armed insurrection' seems like a dangerous plan and if anything, silly simply done over a public channel of the internet.

If there is one, we might say, it will have been decided far away from the prying eyes of the NSA and FBI. DHS's ammo buy is related to this justified paranoia on the part of the oversized fed.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 10:50 AM (El+h4)

114 Reggie Love and I think Ryan is hot!

Posted by: Joe Biden at June 17, 2013 10:50 AM (h0/aL)

115 85 race riots benefit no one seeking rule of law

Ridiculous thing about US black supremacist racism, they hate everyone including themselves. Celebrities like Halle Berry taunt the "one drop of blood" rule making a person "black." Yet George Zimmerman's mixed blood isn't black enough to qualify for anything except as target for black outrage.

In South America, even Cuba, the interracial population reached majority over a century ago. See Suriname, Dutch Colony until 1975 (37% Hindustani, 31% mixed Afro-Surinamese, 15% Javanese, 10% Maroon, 3.7% indigenous native Amerindian). Not that there aren't riots in Brazil. But then, their ghettos are officially imposed to keep away the poor who ARE starving from the autocracy who are filthy rich.

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 10:51 AM (MhA4j)

116
Good post Drew.

What huge disappointments Ryan and Rubio are. Remember 'young guns' and that load of crap. But I guess these are the "New Republicans". Conservatives no longer welcome.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at June 17, 2013 10:51 AM (g5YAm)

117 I think the Republicans realize that the influx of illegals will destroy them politically in the short term - politics is their business after all, they understand demographics.

That is why I strongly suspect the actual reason for amnesty has to do with having enough young people down the road to serve as soldiers. The thinking is: Liberals - because of their abortion worship are aging out and dying away faster than any demographic group in the country - so replacing them with immigrants is a null action in the long term.

I don't agree with amnesty - I'm just trying to explain what the Republican pols are thinking.

Posted by: An Observation at June 17, 2013 10:52 AM (ylhEn)

118
>>>if we're not enforcing current law, why would we think they would enforce the new law?

Which is why I think the bill(s) are most vulnerable to criticism for lack of enforceable targets and goals. It was proposed that Congress would have to certify border security annually for the process to continue toward citizenship. That way, a congressman who claimed the border secure when it plainly was not would have to face his constituents and defend a blatant lie.

That solution was not sufficient for True Conservatives since the Democrats would just say it was secure anyway. Which is what a lot of these arguments boil down to--it won't happen the way common sense tell us it should because I said so.

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 17, 2013 10:52 AM (r5w1L)

119 Give them their amnesty - but never their citizenship and never the vote. Not them, not their children, not their grandchildren. Ever.

That will be the end of imported electorates. They will stay home after that.

Posted by: perturbed at June 17, 2013 10:52 AM (u6Ueb)

120 So once again we self-impose a Sophie's choice and act like it was foisted upon us.

We will not be forgiven for modernity; we will pay every last mite. Sad, ain't it?

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 10:53 AM (El+h4)

121 You can't fight wars without young people for cannon fodder to serve as soldiers. So the Republican justification is national security.
Posted by: An Observation at June 17, 2013 10:24 AM (ylhEn)

Ron Paul much? You know, some libertarian ideas hold enormous appeal for conservative Republicans, especially the libertarian 'leave people the hell alone' school of thought, but then one of you big 'L' Libertarian types shows up and start talking foreign policy and national defense from your very special Paulian perspective and proceed to alienate the hell out of everyone.

Fact: GOP politicians who support amnesty for illegals do not do so because fecund Latinos will serve as ideal breeding stock for the Illuminati war machine.

Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 10:56 AM (vtiE6)

122 Hopefully we can to some extent devolve authority back to the states for a time while things are hashed out on the national level.

Hey, leaving responsibility to regain sanity "on the national level" is staying stuck on stupid. Get a grip on logic and reality, as corruption does not cure itself.

Whatever occurs, begins locally. So take personal responsibility for influencing your sphere of existence.

And you're correct, that our nation is the United STATES of America. Not the Federal Corporation of America.

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 10:57 AM (MhA4j)

123 No one will ever pay a fine. No one will ever pay back taxes. No one will ever wait for Welfare. No one will ever wait for OBumbleCare. No one will ever wait to vote, maybe even more than once. All will bring in 5 new family members "no questions asked" and continue to use the 3 different identities they have been using for the last 15 years.

Posted by: AlGore in his well-lit Oceanside Home at June 17, 2013 10:57 AM (71LDo)

124 SHANGHAI – Director Oliver Stone brought thunderous applause to a crowd of more than 500 festival-goers at the 16th Shanghai International Film Festival in China on Monday when he praised whistleblower Edward Snowden as a "hero."

Snowden, Stone they should all move to china and see how they like them apples

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 10:58 AM (9Bj8R)

125 The Federal Empire is real and it finds your lack of faith disturbing.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 10:59 AM (AO9UG)

126 Celebrities like Halle Berry taunt the "one drop of blood" rule making a person "black."

Did you mean "taunt" or "flaunt"?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at June 17, 2013 10:59 AM (ZKzrr)

127 Why would anybody here illegally want to bother with all this paperwork?

The idea that you can legalize and tax what you cannot prohibit is a delusion.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 10:59 AM (5tpzF)

128 OT - SCOTUS has overturned the Arizona voter ID requirements.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 11:00 AM (a3iAA)

129 The idea that you can legalize and tax what you cannot prohibit is a delusion.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 10:59 AM (5tpzF)


That should be a viral tweet.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 11:00 AM (XIxXP)

130 Activate the Amnesty Force Field!

Excellent!

The Border is sealed!

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 11:00 AM (AO9UG)

131
"...going to sound like a giant gasbag who talks tough but doesn't have the guts to follow through. "

Presidential timber if ever I've heard it.

Posted by: MLCross at June 17, 2013 11:00 AM (taib7)

132 Snowden, Stone they should all move to china and see how they like them apples

Yeah, our one-party socialism is not quite at their level yet.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:01 AM (5tpzF)

133 "Fact: GOP politicians who support amnesty for illegals do not do so because ..." yada yada yada

the gospel of gop according to riser

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 11:01 AM (MhA4j)

134 ylhEn, racist much?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 11:01 AM (UVBO7)

135 I'm fully expecting SCOTUS to throw out the punishment and no-citizenship provisions in the bill after it's passed.

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 11:01 AM (p7BzH)

136 I think we all need another early week picture of Pelosi, just to remind us all how bad it is

Posted by: notachanceinhell at June 17, 2013 11:01 AM (jJA/4)

137 Good morning AP!

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 11:02 AM (XIxXP)

138 O/T: I think I actually had spittle appear on my monitor when I read some of the tweets at The Other McCain. (collected there, not written there!)

"heterosupremacist tyrannical theocRATs"

Eesh.

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 17, 2013 11:02 AM (SUKHu)

139 the gospel of gop according to riser
Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 11:01 AM (MhA4j)

And you are? Oh, that's right: you're nobody. Never mind.

Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 11:02 AM (vtiE6)

140 128 and the legally compromised chief justice strikes again

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 11:02 AM (MhA4j)

141
Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 10:50 AM (El+h4)

-------

If not now, when? After they sell your and my birthright cheap?

This is no longer politics; progressives have seen to that. It is war on citizens in order to force them to pay the bill for the US to be the Welfare State of the World. How do you think that will work out for us, We The People?

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. . . ."

Shamnesty is one such cause, a major cause.

Posted by: RickZ at June 17, 2013 11:03 AM (H+3N7)

142 The Supreme Court says states cannot require would-be voters to prove they are U.S. citizens before using a federal registration system designed to make signing up easier.
The justices voted 7-2 to throw out Arizona's voter-approved requirement that prospective voters document their U.S. citizenship in order to use a registration form produced under the federal "Motor Voter" voter registration law.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said that the 1993 National Voter Registration Act, which doesn't require such documentation, trumps Arizona's Proposition 200 passed in 2004. Arizona officials say their law is needed to stop non-Americans from voting in elections, while opponents see it as an attack on minorities, immigrants and the elderly.
But the high court agreed with the federal government in the case.


Any Country that can't control it's borders and it's voting rolls will not be much of a Country for much longer

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 11:03 AM (9Bj8R)

143 128 and the legally compromised chief justice strikes again
Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 11:02 AM (MhA4j)

The Administration has got something on him. Something big.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 11:03 AM (XIxXP)

144 Listening to the oversight committee hearings, I tend to think that some of the congresscritters on both sides have made good points.

We do have to have trust in those that govern us, because a certain amount of stuff needs to be secret, or in the case of representative democracy, we are authorizing (trusting) someone to make decisions for us. So some of the Dems aren't wrong in being concerned at the impact all of these scandals have on the trust in government. Even if the government was made up of saints, if the people did not trust it, it could not operate. This is a problem even for small governments.

But then, there's also the point that the government has been doing things that erode its trustworthiness - corruption, but not just hookers and blow and junkets, but those things followed by extended cover-ups. Not to mention the illegality of the NSA's actions. (If you doubt it, read the USA Today article on the sidebar, sorry Gabe.)

So while they claim that we or those like us damage the government by speaking against it, damaging people's trust in it, have they created a situation where they have to do one of two wrong things, and then blame us for calling them out on it? It's the result of the Port Huron Statement generation gaining control of government, becoming cynical and corrupt but still essentially just as self-involved.

This whole mess begins and ends with bad immigration law, I think.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 11:04 AM (El+h4)

145 Drew, you're obviously a racist. Because.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at June 17, 2013 11:04 AM (YYJjz)

146 holy hell is the news depressing these last few days.

Now I read that the stupid fucks in black robes--our better on the supreme court--tell us that the AZ laws are unconstitutional.

These stupid fucks, making a mockery of the law; what part of this social compact do they think I shall uphold when they've lost any ability or intent on their end?

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 17, 2013 11:04 AM (VjL9S)

147 Over the top/gonna take a shot/just give it all you got...

From the Dirty Pair : Project EDEN soundtrack - Over the Top.
http://youtu.be/zpPVnt6CVYQ

Hey OSP!!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 11:04 AM (UVBO7)

148 140 128 and the legally compromised chief justice strikes again


I hope John Roberts gets cancer of the testicle.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:05 AM (5tpzF)

149 I hope John Roberts gets cancer of the testicle.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:05 AM (5tpzF)


What Testicle?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 11:06 AM (XIxXP)

150 Gabe, step into the light and defend this bill.

Tell us why you support it.

Posted by: eman at June 17, 2013 11:07 AM (AO9UG)

151 140 128 and the legally compromised chief justice strikes again

---

It was a 6 judge majority with Scalia writing the verdict and a concurrence by Kennedy, meaning a 7-2 vote against the law.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 11:07 AM (a3iAA)

152 #141

I'm not saying it isn't. I'm just saying, don't give advantages to your enemy that you wouldn't even give some of your friends.

To put it another way,

The social contract is face to face.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 11:07 AM (El+h4)

153 85
I have a politically incorrect thought.

A large influx of Hispanics also dilutes the African American vote. Charlie Rangel almost lost his seat to a Latino candidate. They will all vote dem, but historically black politicians will be replaced by Latinos. Shiela Jackson Lee, I'm looking at you. There is hardly an urban center in the United States where black politicians will be voted out in favor of Latinos.

It dilutes their representation. Do they not know that?

Posted by: thunderb


You are right.
I denounce.... aw, Hell.

Posted by: I'm lighting my torch now... at June 17, 2013 11:08 AM (ULH4o)

154 That SCOTUS ruling on Arizonas law makes no sense....An attack on immigrants? Would that be illegal "immigrants" who shouldn't be allowed to vote because they are not citizens?Hell they don't even need to speak English to vote as we give them ballots in Spanish... Fuck this whole thing. Why not just give them their ballot already filled out with every Democrat checked?

Posted by: hello, it's me Donna at June 17, 2013 11:09 AM (9+ccr)

155 F*** the Supremes. I hope Arizona gives every illegal a bus ticket to the suburbs of Washington D.C.

Posted by: vivi at June 17, 2013 11:09 AM (Kznuj)

156 The verdict was that the federal law (1993 National Voter Registration Act) supercedes the Arizona law.

From SCOTUSBlog-

"The Court first recognized that under the Elections Clause of the U.S. Constitution, Congress has the power to dictate when, where, and how elections are held, and state election laws that conflict with federal ones are therefore preempted and without effect. The Court thus held that by requiring states to “accept and use” the federal form, the NVRA effectively required the states to treat the federal form as sufficient evidence of citizenship without any additional proof, so that Arizona’s proof-of-citizenship requirement was contrary to the NVRA, and therefore invalid."

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 11:09 AM (a3iAA)

157
"I'm fully expecting SCOTUS to throw out the punishment and no-citizenship provisions in the bill after it's passed."

I'm On It!

Posted by: John Roberts at June 17, 2013 11:09 AM (71LDo)

158 #85

The blacks were just a tool. It's really f'in sad, what's going to happen to them. It's exactly what they did to the American Indian, isn't it?

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 11:10 AM (El+h4)

159 It dilutes their representation. Do they not know that?


There are a couple of Black orgs rallying against amnesty. Their argument is jobs. A good argument.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 11:10 AM (XIxXP)

160 "I'm fully expecting SCOTUS to throw out the punishment and no-citizenship provisions in the bill after it's passed."

It's a Tax!!!

Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at June 17, 2013 11:10 AM (71LDo)

161 Hey, girl. I'm for border security that as strong as my rock hard abs.

Posted by: Pud Ryan at June 17, 2013 11:10 AM (yn6XZ)

162 I'm fully expecting SCOTUS to throw out the punishment and no-citizenship provisions in the bill after it's passed.


Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 11:01 AM (p7BzH)

Those provisions are not in the bill and will never make it into the bill Ratshit Rubio is lying. What few provisions they have in there are "optional" and will never be used.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 11:11 AM (lZvxr)

163 Ryan held so much promise, WTF.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at June 17, 2013 11:11 AM (XIxXP)

164 It was a 6 judge majority with Scalia writing the verdict and a concurrence by Kennedy, meaning a 7-2 vote against the law.

I hope they all get cancer of the testicle.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:11 AM (5tpzF)

165
# 152

The social contract is face to face.

---------

I guess I place a much higher value on my Birthright than you do. Unfortunately, you are not alone in your thinking.

Posted by: RickZ at June 17, 2013 11:12 AM (H+3N7)

166 The supposed work for Blacks' civil rights was merely a way to establish a social moral equivalent of war, used no longer to help them, but the destroy the society and institutions they hoped to participate in.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 11:12 AM (El+h4)

167 I understand the points being made about tribal politics shifting from black power to Latino power. (What a mess. Anyway.).

But I don't understand this talk of spoils. How exactly have rank and file blacks benefited from their "leaders?" They are worse off today than they've ever been with the most powerful man in the world being black.

I strongly suspect the same will be the case for Latino "leaders." As it is everywhere in the world tribalism flourishes. The leaders' cronies pillage the treasury while the common tribe members' lives deteriorate. But the tribe members will keep on voting for them.

I'm African. I would know.

Posted by: It's chique d'afrique! at June 17, 2013 11:12 AM (r+7wo)

168 Fact: GOP politicians who support amnesty for illegals do not do so because fecund Latinos will serve as ideal breeding stock for the Illuminati war machine.
Posted by: troyriser


Excellent. Just what we want you to think.

Posted by: Illuminati War Machine at June 17, 2013 11:13 AM (NF2Bf)

169 Ron Paul much? You know, some libertarian ideas hold enormous appeal for
conservative Republicans, especially the libertarian 'leave people the
hell alone' school of thought, but then one of you big 'L' Libertarian
types shows up and start talking foreign policy and national defense
from your very special Paulian perspective and proceed to alienate the
hell out of everyone.



Fact: GOP politicians who support amnesty for illegals do not do so
because fecund Latinos will serve as ideal breeding stock for the
Illuminati war machine.


I'm not trying to offer my own thoughts on why we should have amnesty - I'm trying to show what the Republican politicians are thinking when they support amnesty against their own obvious best short term political interests .

As far as my own view of the subject - I think the Original Posters arguments are unanswerable - he is correct: this is amnesty and for all the reasons that have been brought up here by multiple posters, I am against amnesty.

Politicians in office have a different perspective than voters - they see things which are not obvious to people who's only political action is to vote or make contributions - or even post on political blogs.

Government has to worry about things like national security - and having enough soldiers to protect the country in the event of a major war twenty years down the road is one of the things elected representatives and senators do have to worry about.


Posted by: An Observation at June 17, 2013 11:13 AM (ylhEn)

170 #165

If you can't get my innuendo, I don't know how to put it. Maybe you can read my last poem and see what you think I mean.


Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 11:13 AM (El+h4)

171 With "republicans" like Ryan and Rubio, who needs Commiecrats?

It is enough to make one cry.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 17, 2013 11:14 AM (ujg0T)

172
Note: this was posted at the end of the last thread. It is germaine to this thread, so, suck it Peaches...
Miss Lindsay says we'll fall into a "demographic black hole" if we don't hop on the (sh)amnesty bandwagon. Hahahahahahahah...
Here's my question: Why aren't we* courting/mobilizing LEAGL ALIEN'S, and the pending legal aliens. This group seems to be getting the royal shaft in this whole deal. Also, seem more likely to be aligned with conservative/liberatarian beliefs. If I'm not mistaken, legal immigrants must posess some skill or level of education to move through the system.
*I really don't know who "we" are anymore.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 17, 2013 11:15 AM (bWBdM)

173 I hope they all get cancer of the testicle.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:11 AM


Since none of them have testicles, they appear to be immune.

Posted by: MrScribbler at June 17, 2013 11:15 AM (lNAFm)

174 No question these bills under discussion suck as a resolution to a huge
problem we have. I just don't think you can keep attacking different
aspects of them without discussing the how they compare with the status
quo.


Even if we accept your premise that the fate of illegals is a "huge problem", this bill does approximately nothing in terms of a long term solution. We're guaranteed to have the same "huge problem" in the future.

Jeff Flake says it's different this time, because they're required to develop "a plan". A plan is just a list of things that ain't going to happen. And they know it. They're relying on it, because they don't want to stop illegal immigration.

If life for illegals is difficult, it should be. Their difficulty is the direct result of violating our sovereignty and laws.

The status quo of today exists because previous promises to prevent illegal immigration weren't fulfilled. What do they offer now? Amnesty and more empty promises of a "plan".


Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 17, 2013 11:15 AM (SY2Kh)

175 Well Tropical Depression Two has formed. About 60 miles east of Monkey River Town in Belize. Right now no strengthening is expected, the forecast says it will emerge into the Bay of Campeche where it may strengthen. If it does strengthen into a tropical storm it will be named Barry.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT2+shtml/171459.shtml

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 11:15 AM (UVBO7)

176 Anyway, welcome to hell, here's your accordion.


Know how I know this shit is going to get even worse?

Because not one fucking elected Republican official is talking publicly about (and it's not even being whispered) leaving the Republican Party.

Our biggest problem is not the two parties, its that neither of the two parties represent a large chunk of Americans any more--and no politician, even the political animals they are, are moving to take advantage of this.

Nature abhors a vacuum . . . .

And the party that rises to fill that will not be moderate, and will be less and less moderate the longer this goes on without redress.

Posted by: RoyalOil at June 17, 2013 11:16 AM (VjL9S)

177 I'm On It!


Posted by: John Roberts at June 17, 2013 11:09 AM (71LDo)

I know you are John, I know you are...

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 11:16 AM (p7BzH)

178 #165

Rick

Do you have a means of communication that is not surveiled?

If so, I'd like to have a conversation with you.

Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 11:16 AM (El+h4)

179 @169. Yeah, forgive me if I'm not persuaded that our trustworthy and selfless politicians are proposing amnesty because they are sooooo concerned about national security and the future military.

Posted by: It's chique d'afrique! at June 17, 2013 11:16 AM (r+7wo)

180


OT but related:

SCOTUS strikes down AZ law requiring proof of citizenship to vote.

Thank Gd we have a dedicated defender of the Constitution like Jan Brewer on our side.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 17, 2013 11:16 AM (+98Gb)

181 Fact: GOP politicians who support amnesty for illegals do not do so
because fecund Latinos will serve as ideal breeding stock for the
Illuminati war machine.


I believe the phrase is 'fertile.'

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (5tpzF)

182 Nature abhors a vacuum . . . . And the party that rises to fill that will not be moderate, and will be less and less moderate the longer this goes on without redress.
Posted by: RoyalOil


Word!

Posted by: Europe at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (NF2Bf)

183 I can't seem to type anything meaningful that wouldn't incur undue law enforcement interest on this topic.

Posted by: Jean at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (jPtkn)

184 142 never give up,


that's a good thing not a bad thing donate to.la rasa
40 million guys named Juan want to help us break the country apart

Posted by: sven10077 at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (zD4QG)

185
sovereignty is hateful

I don't think Roberts is being blackmailed

I think that getting a lifetime appointment as an apparatchik in the statist machine has taught him to love the state

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 11:18 AM (nH8jP)

186
The SCOAMF wages an war on us, using organs of the state. And is successful in doing so.

And then these repubes can't wait to get in line to suck that speckled dick that hangs between two giant jug ears.

I fucking hate these pubes.



Posted by: Fuck you RNC at June 17, 2013 11:18 AM (qxcKC)

187 Ok. So who made the thread wider? Ugh.

Posted by: It's chique d'afrique! at June 17, 2013 11:18 AM (r+7wo)

188 OT but related:

SCOTUS strikes down AZ law requiring proof of citizenship to vote.

Thank Gd we have a dedicated defender of the Constitution like Jan Brewer on our side.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 17, 2013 11:16 AM (+98Gb)



From my very very very cursory reading of the decision, this ruling is in keeping with prior preemption rulings.


That those prior rulings were themselves written by those who were smoking the bad monkey crack is a topic for another day.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 11:18 AM (VtjlW)

189 176 Anyway, welcome to hell, here's your accordion.


Know how I know this shit is going to get even worse?

Because not one fucking elected Republican official is talking publicly about (and it's not even being whispered) leaving the Republican Party.

Our biggest problem is not the two parties, its that neither of the two parties represent a large chunk of Americans any more--and no politician, even the political animals they are, are moving to take advantage of this.

Nature abhors a vacuum . . . .

And the party that rises to fill that will not be moderate, and will be less and less moderate the longer this goes on without redress.


---

This assumes that what rises up will be a new party and not a bunch of people saying "Fuck this shit, we're forming our own country."

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 17, 2013 11:19 AM (a3iAA)

190 and having enough soldiers to protect the country suppress the insurgents in the event of a major war civil uprising twenty years down the road is one of the things elected representatives and senators do have to worry about.

It's sad I have to think this way, but I'd be a fool not to these days.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, CEO, Hodorburton at June 17, 2013 11:19 AM (zUi7I)

191 I think that getting a lifetime appointment as an apparatchik in the statist machine has taught him to love the state
Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 11:18 AM (nH8jP)

great point.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 11:19 AM (9Bj8R)

192 Jan Brewer should do just like Obama and give the court the finger. The Constitution says the States set voting requirements.

Tell them to piss up a rope Jan.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 11:20 AM (lZvxr)

193 So when something is broke, the solution is to break it some more?

And stop telling me that there is "no perfect" solution to this.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at June 17, 2013 11:20 AM (7wojv)

194 Jan Brewer has also learned to love the state. She wants those federal dollars. She will do nothing

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 11:21 AM (nH8jP)

195 Jan Brewer should do just like Obama and give the court the finger. The Constitution says the States set voting requirements.

Tell them to piss up a rope Jan.
Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 11:20 AM (lZvxr)



Jan "Gimme that exchange or else I'm just gonna veto everything until I get my way also hold my breath and stomp my feet" Brewer? Yeah. Tell me again what a fierce and mighty proponent of state sovereignty she is.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 11:21 AM (VtjlW)

196 Jan "Gimme that exchange or else I'm just gonna veto
everything until I get my way also hold my breath and stomp my feet"
Brewer? Yeah. Tell me again what a fierce and mighty proponent of
state sovereignty she is.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 11:21 AM (VtjlW)

I didn't say she "would". I said she "should".

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 11:22 AM (lZvxr)

197 So when something is broke, the solution is to break it some more? And stop telling me that there is "no perfect" solution to this.

Well, I'm a kind of solution.

Posted by: The Burning Times at June 17, 2013 11:23 AM (NF2Bf)

198 I believe the phrase is 'fertile.'
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (5tpzF)

No, the word (not phrase)is 'fecund'. Look it up. If you're going to be a thesaurus nazi and dispute word choices, at least get it right.

Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 11:23 AM (vtiE6)

199 So when something is broke, the solution is to break it some more?



And stop telling me that there is "no perfect" solution to this.


It's true that there is no perfect solution.

But the Gang of Eight bill isn't a solution at all unless the hardships of illegal aliens is the only problem you wish to address.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 17, 2013 11:23 AM (SY2Kh)

200 Those provisions are not in the bill and will never
make it into the bill Ratshit Rubio is lying. What few provisions they
have in there are "optional" and will never be used.


Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 11:11 AM (lZvxr)

I meant if they are added to the bill.

Posted by: KG at June 17, 2013 11:24 AM (p7BzH)

201 There has never been a time when a violent revolution occurred and things settled in nicely afterwards. Ours was the closest it ever cam and it wasn't the utopia it is often made out to be.

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 11:24 AM (lZvxr)

202 198 I believe the phrase is 'fertile.'
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (5tpzF)

No, the word (not phrase)is 'fecund'. Look it up. If you're going to be a thesaurus nazi and dispute word choices, at least get it right.


I was making a joke, referencing Jeb Bush's recent statement on the phrase 'fertile hispanics.'

Sorry for not being clear.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:24 AM (5tpzF)

203 The Burning Times would be a good name for a newspaper after the great collapse.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2013 11:25 AM (Kppp9)

204 From 1983. Genesis - Illegal Alien
http://youtu.be/_61hzuGGJX0

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at June 17, 2013 11:25 AM (UVBO7)

205 198 I believe the phrase is 'fertile.'
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (5tpzF)

No, the word (not phrase)is 'fecund'. Look it up. If you're going to be a thesaurus nazi and dispute word choices, at least get it right.
Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 11:23 AM (vtiE6)

I think he was referring to something Jeb Bush said about immigrants being more fertile.

Posted by: Adam at June 17, 2013 11:25 AM (Aif/5)

206 I might trust them more if they put their money where their mouth is: really start fighting for Gabriel Gomez in Massachusetts.

Even if he loses, that’s the kind of thing that brings a group over to your side. I would think a lot more than pandering to people who broke the law in the hopes that people who have followed the law will vote for you.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 17, 2013 11:25 AM (QF8uk)

207 Nobody has yet convinced me that the solution isn't to 1) secure the border which we could do if we really wanted to and 2) enforce the laws currently on the books. We don't have to wade into the shadows and deport 11 million people. If we showed illegals that we were actually serious about enforcement and started deporting everyone we catch who should be deported a huge number would leave on their own.

This is a relatively simple problem that could only be fucked up by the solons in DC who have completely different agendas than most citizens do.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 17, 2013 11:26 AM (g1DWB)

208 RE: I-9 Form

Someone here should take one for the team and deliberately put false info on their form the next time they start a new job. Then immediately turn yourself in to the authorities and document what happens.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 17, 2013 11:26 AM (UypUQ)

209 The Burning Times-Dispatch?

Posted by: Lurking Cancuck at June 17, 2013 11:26 AM (NF2Bf)

210 139 That's right. Your own over reach strikes a blow for ignorance.

Reaching firm convictions subsequent to scholarly research is the goal. It's obvious you haven't spent the effort studying influential libertarian sites to know well enough what you're either attacking or supporting from the classical liberal or libertarian conservative online library. If you were interested in dialog after study, visit the mises.org and Daily Bell sites.

Meanwhile, your "fact" finding is a twisted tinfoil panty joke.

"Fact: GOP politicians who support amnesty for illegals do not do so because fecund Latinos will serve as ideal breeding stock for the Illuminati war machine."

"Oh, that's right: you're nobody. Never mind."

Not that you care to be civil. Just a know it all who really doesn't, yet.

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 11:27 AM (MhA4j)

211 Off mispelled regular sock!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at June 17, 2013 11:27 AM (NF2Bf)

212 206 I might trust them more if they put their money where their mouth is: really start fighting for Gabriel Gomez in Massachusetts.

The GOP shouldn't spend any energy helping an Obama bundler who begged Deval Patrick to appoint him.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:27 AM (5tpzF)

213 Well, I'm a kind of solution.
Posted by: The Burning Times at June 17, 2013 11:23 AM (NF2Bf)



That is of a piece with how my good is *a* good.

Posted by: alexthechick - Mmmm. Blondes with whipped cream. at June 17, 2013 11:28 AM (VtjlW)

214 212 The GOP shouldn't spend any energy helping an Obama bundler who begged Deval Patrick to appoint him.

Amen. If there exists a textbook definition of RINO, it will have roots in Massachusetts.

Posted by: akula_51 at June 17, 2013 11:29 AM (Vgn84)

215 Lets take all the Military, All the Nukes, All the Nuke Power, to the South East or the South West and declared a Free America. Let the libs have the rest. Fuck em

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 11:29 AM (9Bj8R)

216 Gomez was an Obama bundler?!

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 17, 2013 11:29 AM (UypUQ)

217 new one

Posted by: Vic at June 17, 2013 11:29 AM (lZvxr)

218 Isn't this (immigration "reform") pretty much what Europe has been doing for the past 30 years? And where has that got them? Is Europe an economic powerhouse? No, they've got muslim youths starting car-b-q's and police wont even enter some muslim enclaves (France).

Posted by: Mainah at June 17, 2013 11:29 AM (659DL)

219
Could have firsted the Arizona thread. But that's not right.

Barry Rubin in nic on our alliance with the Muslim Brotherhood which dare not speak its name.

This will not start, exist, or end well.

Posted by: Beagle at June 17, 2013 11:29 AM (sOtz/)

220 Reports in Syria: Israel attacked another airport
Opposition sources say massive blast at military airport near Damascus result of Israeli airstrike; Assad says rebels behind attack

Things seem to go boom in the night in Syria. Go figure?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 17, 2013 11:31 AM (9Bj8R)

221 Posted by: spongeworthy at June 17, 2013 10:39 AM (r5w1L)

The problem with that approach (well, one of them) is you are simply incentivizing liberals to keep creating problems that we have to solve.

Granted they do that already but we need to break that cycle.

If they are going to make a mess, then either we make them live with it or if they want a solution from us, it has to advance conservatism somehow.

Amnesty just rewards past bad behavior (by illegal aliens and liberals).

Posted by: DrewM. at June 17, 2013 11:32 AM (MbMSS)

222 The GOP shouldn't spend any energy helping an Obama bundler who begged Deval Patrick to appoint him.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:27 AM


Massachusetts "Republicans" are like "moderate" Muzzies: they do not exist in reality.

Gomez's sole saving grace is that he is running against a well-established greedhead, liar and member of the Priveleged Fatass club, which is dedicated to keeping its members in power for eternity. Ed Markey exemplifies all that is wrong with our current political system.

I still haven't decided if I can get up the energy to vote next Tuesday, and that lack of will is something I haven't felt since my first election (1972!).

Posted by: MrScribbler at June 17, 2013 11:33 AM (lNAFm)

223 Sorry for not being clear.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 17, 2013 11:24 AM (5tpzF)

No, I'm sorry. I have no sense of humor whatsoever--which is of itself a source of endless amusement to my family, my children especially. I can't tell jokes and usually don't get jokes and often wonder why people laugh and smile all the time. I blame it on my German and Native American ancestors, two peoples who aren't exactly known for their zany, wacky, rollicking slapstick sense of humor and light-hearted, carefree ways.

Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 11:33 AM (vtiE6)

224 183 I can't seem to type anything meaningful that wouldn't incur undue law enforcement interest on this topic.
Posted by: Jean at June 17, 2013 11:17 AM (jPtkn) Well this worked out quicker than I'd expected!

Posted by: Eddie "Haskel" Snowden at June 17, 2013 11:33 AM (0tHG6)

225
Posted by: RiverC at June 17, 2013 11:16 AM (El+h4)

------

Why? Are you afraid of the government? 'Those who hold their manhoods cheap . . .'

You tell me what else has worked? How our mandarins have listened to our voices? Yeah, didn't think so. What hill are you willing to die on? Or is there a hill at all? We have legislation without representation, which is a hell of a lot more serious than merely taxation without representation.

I will never bow down to communists, even if that means becoming a disappeared political prisoner.

Posted by: RickZ at June 17, 2013 11:34 AM (H+3N7)

226 HeatherRadish,

I think either word applies.

But Halle Berry's business of taunting her ex- as if their child wasn't his, or he had no parental expectation of rights, "because" she's black really taunts the sensibilities, flaunting her false sense of superiority.

With regards to that racist blood "rule" my point was that it never made sense, and wasn't supposed to be sensible. Rather, emotional. An actual outrage against equality. Completely inconsistently applied. Hence, bigoted and prejudiced. To get "even" by being racist.

As if that will ever work.

Posted by: Your GOP selling peon slavery stateside at June 17, 2013 11:35 AM (MhA4j)

227 I'm not a big L libertarian. In the late 1970's and in 1980 and 1981 I was a member of the Libertarian party - being a delegate to a national convention and running for state house of representatives in Texas as a Libertarian. I have met Dr. Paul and even been to his house in the late 1970's when he was a first term Republican congressman; my brother and I did some video production work for him.

However the Libertarian party of today is a far different beast than the one of 30 years ago. I left the party in 1982 and haven't looked back.

No I'm not a Luap Nor groupy. I do have an autographed copy of Atlas Shrugged though.





Posted by: An Observation at June 17, 2013 11:36 AM (ylhEn)

228 Paul Ryan is a SCOAMF.

Posted by: Andrew at June 17, 2013 11:46 AM (+/z4q)

229 It's sad I have to think this way, but I'd be a fool not to these days.

Yes, you are correct there on both counts; it is sad and not thinking about it is to be a fool.


Posted by: An Observation at June 17, 2013 11:51 AM (ylhEn)

230
At least the new immigrants will have lots of publicly-funded foot washing and prayer rooms for their conversion to Islam.

Just immigration is a multi-pronged disaster whichever way you look.

Steyn in name.

Pull quote:
"Terrorism's great achievement isn't hijacking jetliners, but hijacking the debate," wrote George Jonas in Canada's National Post. "Successful terrorism persuades the terror-stricken that he's conscience-stricken." Which is why, in the decade after 9/11, Western governments ramped up Islamic immigration instead of slowing it to a trickle; and their citizens were "very supportive" of those who converted in record numbers, instead of mourning the wholesale abandonment of their inheritance; and their community-outreach enforcers dragged those who disrespected the Prophet into court for ever more footling infractions, instead of obliging Islam to adjust to core Western values like freedom of expression. Meanwhile, Islamic self-segregation intensified. The "War on Terror" was always an evasion, for "terror" doesn't easily encompass, say, demands for segregated swimming sessions or even the nightly car burnings in Stockholm. It does, however, accurately capture the response of Sweden's "center-right" government, bleating about doing more to alleviate "social exclusion." We now expect European leaders to sound like battered wives — like Katherine Tsarnaev.

Posted by: Beagle at June 17, 2013 11:52 AM (sOtz/)

231 Yes, you are correct there on both counts; it is sad and not thinking about it is to be a fool.
Posted by: An Observation at June 17, 2013 11:51 AM (ylhEn)

Batshit crazy foreign policy and national defense ideas will guarantee continued relegation of Paulianlibertariansim to the fringe, which is a shame, really; like I said: 'leave the people alone' is a powerful message. In re immigration, if pro-amnesty shills are promoting the breeding of anything, it's more Democratic Party voters, especially since far-Left liberals seem to have forgotten how to make babies themselves. The British Labor Party did the same thing with Muslim immigration. It didn't work out.

Posted by: troyriser at June 17, 2013 11:58 AM (vtiE6)

232
Love of the state by pubs and alleged "conservatives"

Rove was talking about how they should not repeal Obamacare, but redo it, make it better, keeping the stuff people like, talking out the stuff people don't.

And he was talking about the slush fund they have collected to implement it. And instead of getting rid of it and reducing the burden on our selves, our children and our grandchildren, he was arguing for using it "better".

It is not his fucking money

Posted by: thunderb at June 17, 2013 12:01 PM (nH8jP)

233
Yet another conservative Great Leader and Political Saviour bites the dust...

How many is that now? I mean, just in the last couple of years?

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at June 17, 2013 12:07 PM (klGLB)

234
>>>If they are going to make a mess, then either we make them live with it or if they want a solution from us, it has to advance conservatism somehow.

This is hard to argue with. I simply believe there's no way it will happen, and history's on my side. Meantime, status quo, as it has been for all the years we've been arguing about this.

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 17, 2013 12:11 PM (r5w1L)

235 I know amnesty when I see it.

Posted by: Zombie Justice Potter Stewart at June 17, 2013 12:26 PM (5RUlF)

236
Very good, Drew. But you're right, he will not respond to you, because he wouldn't want to come across as a fool which he certainly would do were he to deny any of that.

Posted by: Alabama Mike at June 17, 2013 01:27 PM (8XDXc)

237 God forbid they pass amnesty, who will enforce all these qualifications ? The Obama administration ????????

You gotta be shittin' me.

Posted by: seamrog at June 17, 2013 02:01 PM (W1B4s)

238 Nice job. We need to start kicking "conservatives" defending this POS Amnesty bill hard. Let them know we see through the liberal game they are playing.

Posted by: DaMav at June 17, 2013 02:19 PM (rT08W)

239
I don't see how the GOP Establishmentcan win. If they are correct and vote for amnesty then they will loose the base. (If the numbers are correct some of the conservative base already walked in 2012 and it could be why the GOP lost in 2012.). However, they will probably not getmuchmore of the Hispanic vote then they have historically received. If they simply don'tvote for amnestyand change nothing else they will still loose the base and not get as much of the Hispanic vote. So I expect that the GOP will continue down the spiral and the Conservative base will go elsewhere and wait for the financial collapse.

Posted by: Rich at June 17, 2013 04:02 PM (WVRxe)

240 Hehe. Once everyone converts to Islam, we set our our religious differences aside and it's all milk and honey between us. Don't you see?

Posted by: fawkes at June 19, 2013 04:17 PM (Djwm9)






Processing 0.04, elapsed 0.0411 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0097 seconds, 249 records returned.
Page size 152 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.

MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat