Amnesty Supporter Explains How Conservatives Can Appeal To Hispanics. Spoiler: It Involves Unicorns And Underwear Gnomes.

One of my great frustrations with amnesty supporters who claim once we pass amnesty Hispanic-Americans will give Republicans/conservatives a chance to win their vote is they never explain how this will work. On average Hispanics have shown in word and deed, that they are liberals, more liberal in fact than the population on the whole (see here and here).

Don't believe me...believe them.

hispanicgovtsizea.JPG

So with the background in mind, here's Arthur Brooks the head of the American Enterprise Institute 3 step plan for how conservatives can appeal to Hispanics.

Step 1: Tell them how much Republicans support the welfare system

First, make it clear that the safety net for the indigent and needy is not the source of our fiscal problems. It is the safety net for everyone else—the able-bodied, the middle class, and corporate cronies—that is driving our country to insolvency. . . .

Yeah.

This will mean the GOP giving up any rhetoric about shrinking government. Even accepting that there will be a safety-net, you can't talk about how government is too big, too incompetent and too destructive of personal initiative. It means giving up saying in order to re-balance incentives the amount and scope of the "safety net" will have to be cut.

Not only is Brooks admitting Hispanics don't want to hear the GOP's message on welfare, he's expecting the GOP to able to suddenly have a sophisticated messaging plan that can communicate that we want to cut government, just not the government you like.

Once you accept that current welfare spending is fine, you commit to a bidding war with the Democrats who will always agitate to increase that spending.

Well, let's see the rest of the plan. It can't get worse, right?

Step 2: Less government

put education reform in poor communities front and center. Today, students from low-income families are five times as likely to drop out of school as students from high-income families, according to data from the Department of Education. It is a civil-rights scandal that we effectively accept this opportunity-denying status quo. Conservatives must be the warriors for pro-child, pro-parent, pro-innovation and pro-choice education reforms.

The wording here is vague. He doesn't explicitly call for promoting charter schools, vouchers and the rest of the conservative education reform agenda to Hispanics.

So let's take a look at the two options:

1- These "pro-child, pro-parent, pro-innovation and pro-choice education reforms" are aimed at working within the current pubic education, teacher union based system.

That's not what conservative educator reformers have been working on for years. Now we're supposed to "fix" education without the incentives of traditional conservative reform proposals?

Or

2. What Brooks is talking about is selling Hispanics on things like vouchers and charter schools.

That seems like a no brainer for conservatives but we ignore in Step 1 we tell Hispanics we aren't looking to cut back on government programs. And now we're telling them we want to cut back on public school funding by moving the money to alternative educational programs.

This is getting crazy.

Oh and the problem with telling Hispanics we don't think the government is any good at running education? See the chart above...on the whole Hispanics trust the government and want it to do more than most other groups. How is telling them, "We're taking something very important to you away from the institution you trust" going to win votes?

Ok, maybe the 3rd point will save the day for Team Amnesty.

Step 3: Hmmmm.

Third, . . . [conservatives] should fight every day to get the government out of the way of a healthy culture for vulnerable American families.

Hispanics: You know, we like government. A lot. In fact, we want more of it!

GOP Team Amnesty: "We understand and to win you over we're going to "get the government out of the way". You're welcome!"

I appreciate that Brooks is honest enough to layout a vision for how Republicans can win over Hispanics but if this is the best they can do, they should keep quiet. This plan to win over Hispanics requires a combination of abandoning conservative principles and ignoring the reality of the Hispanic community in America.

Of course as an opponent of amnesty, I hope they keep talking like this. It makes our job easier.

Posted by: DrewM. at 10:32 AM



Comments

1 Fuck em

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 18, 2013 10:36 AM (R8hU8)

2 Beretta tells Maryland to kiss their ass ...

Prior to introduction of this legislation the three Beretta Holding companies located in Maryland were experiencing growth in revenues and jobs and had begun expansion plans in factory and other operations. The idea now of investing additional funds in Maryland, thus rewarding a Government that has insulted our customers and our products, is offensive to us so we will take steps to evaluate such investments in other States. At the same time, we will continue our current necessary operations within Maryland and we are thankful for and welcome the continued support of our employees as we do so.

Posted by: Felix Frankfurter at May 18, 2013 10:36 AM (e8kgV)

3 An Hispanic America is a second (or even third) rate America

At least until they shed their socialist ways, if ever.

Posted by: Grey Fox, Medievalist at May 18, 2013 10:37 AM (P/MSC)

4 Great Headline Drew

Posted by: Sen.Ted Cruz at May 18, 2013 10:37 AM (iWWOU)

5 In short, the way Republican appeal to Hispanics is to become Democrats. Piss on this guy.


But it doesn't matter. The word out last week was that the House has now sold us out on amnesty. The Republican Party will be gone in a short time.

Posted by: Vic at May 18, 2013 10:38 AM (53z96)

6 It's a safety net, not a hammock.



Posted by: Dang at May 18, 2013 10:38 AM (Hx2XA)

7 In before the cries of "Racism!" from our own commenters.

Posted by: buzzion at May 18, 2013 10:41 AM (LI48c)

8 *crickets*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at May 18, 2013 10:41 AM (GQ72I)

9
Today, students from low-income families are five times as likely to drop out of school as students from high-income families, according to data from the Department of Education.

Some cultures do not value education very much. Not a few Hispanics want their kids to work, not to screw with school. It's a big problem here in CA.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 18, 2013 10:42 AM (IDSI7)

10 It's British "conservatism". Same programs, same size government, but argue you will be better managers.



When was the last time a real conservative was elected in Great Britain?

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 10:42 AM (nH8jP)

11 Shhhhh (not everyone needs to go to college, and that's OK). Pass it on.

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 10:44 AM (nH8jP)

12 You're just trying to cheer me up by distracting me from the IRS scandal. It won't work, Drew.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 10:45 AM (JQuNB)

13 When was the last time a real conservative was elected in Great Britain?

Maggie?

Posted by: Fox2! at May 18, 2013 10:47 AM (+N4be)

14 There a a lot of kids that would be better off learning a trade no matter where there parents are from.

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 10:47 AM (nH8jP)

15 What gets me about the "deal" that was worked out in the House is that it was billed as another great compromise for conservatives.


I want to know why it is always conservatives who must give in these so-called compromises. If I walk into a bank and demand $1,000 free money from the bank will it be a compromise if I agree to accept only $500?


I think not. In a true compromise both sides give up something and both sides get something. The only thing we have got in the past 30 to 50 years is the shaft.

Posted by: Vic at May 18, 2013 10:48 AM (53z96)

16 Shhhhh (not everyone needs to go to college, and that's OK). Pass it on.

Posted by: Thunderb

The guy who mows my lawn has a college degree. Probably has something to do with me mowing my own lawn.

Posted by: Dang at May 18, 2013 10:48 AM (Hx2XA)

17 Today, students from low-income families are five times as likely to
drop out of school as students from high-income families, according to
data from the Department of Education.




Translation: We need more welfare even though all the past welfare has not worked.

Posted by: Vic at May 18, 2013 10:49 AM (53z96)

18 One of the problems is using the catch-all term "Hispanics".

There's at least 8 or 10 or more subgroups all with completely different social characteristics, and vastly different levels of trust in government.

Peeling off some of those groups isn't hard with a message tailored to what the past experience was.

ex. Nicaraguan who were fleeing the excesses of the Sandinista's would be receptive to a message detailing how the Democrats resemble Sandinista's.

Someone from Mexico city would not relate to that message though. They've never seen an abusive government in its full splendor having lived in a (relatively) modern-ish city with somewhat functioning infrastructure.




Posted by: @PurpAv at May 18, 2013 10:49 AM (/gHaE)

19 A plumber or electrician or a truck driver for a fracking field has more job security and income than anyone graduating from college right now.

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 10:50 AM (nH8jP)

20 Say goodbye to Mr. Wonderful.

This is a policy issue, not an invitation to air racial animosities.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 18, 2013 10:50 AM (1dCTA)

21 After reading yesterday that the House has some kind of tentative "compromise," the fix is in. The House was the only thing protecting us from this nightmare. I should've known better than to have any hope. Talk about death knells. This will be the mother of all death knells to America and the implications will simply be enormous. Obamacare can, in theory at least, be repealed. All the other crap progressives have foisted on America can, in theory, be repealed or fixed. But you import 30 million (and more) illegals, grant them citizenship and boom. Done deal for eternity. I have no doubt now it will happen. The GOP can look squarely at the chart above, and all the other indisputable, empirical evidence that these people will not vote conservative, or even moderate....and our elite don't care. They want this. And we're going to get it.

Posted by: Lady in Black (I haven't read all the comments yet, but....) at May 18, 2013 10:51 AM (ovWeo)

22 /sour mood

Posted by: Lady in Black (I haven't read all the comments yet, but....) at May 18, 2013 10:52 AM (ovWeo)

23 So the debate now is how much we're fucked?

Not if it should be passed, but just the trillion dollar plus minutae.

Happy Saturday!

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 10:52 AM (Wl/Ht)

24 I can't wait for them to become Americans. Then, they won't have to do the jobs Americans won't do anymore.

Posted by: no good deed at May 18, 2013 10:53 AM (mjR67)

25 This is from AEI, the respected think tank that employs Norm Ornstein,
whose last book, "It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American
Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism" was
named one of 2012's best books by The New Yorker and The Washington and
was praised by The Daily Kos, The Nation, The New York Times,
specifically Paul Krugman and whose most recent article, "In Defense of
the IRS" appeared in the National Journal?

That AEI?

Posted by: jeannebodine at May 18, 2013 10:53 AM (LBBS3)

26 On Brooks' Step 1 point, I suppose I come down more on Brooks' side, in the sense that it does behoove us to clearly distinguish between the different types of welfare out there.

The stereotype out there against us is that we just hate the poor and want them to suffer and die. That is obviously not true, so what then is a smart way to counteract this stereotype? I would say that just bashing welfare in general is not a smart way to do that.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 18, 2013 10:53 AM (BBWjt)

27 There was a nice editorial cartoon the other day. GOP elephant andmMarco are handing out margaritas to the folks making their way to the Donk tent. Gracias!

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 10:54 AM (Wl/Ht)

28 Fuck the GOP right in the pooper with a barbed wire wrapped pineapple.

Done.With.Them.

Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 10:55 AM (Cs2tJ)

29 Is there any other real path to limited, constitutional government outside of a Let It Burn scenario? Because I really don't see it.

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at May 18, 2013 10:56 AM (Yv6gq)

30 Lois G. Lerner, the embattled Internal Revenue Service official who apologized for improperly scrutinizing the tax-exempt status of conservative nonprofit groups, is a member of the Humane Society of the United States, a liberal animal advocacy organization.

Lerner — the suddenly infamous IRS Exempt Organizations Division director — “is an active member of the Humane Society of the United States where her efforts in performing pet rescues necessitated by the 2005 Gulf Coast hurricanes were widely acknowledged,” according to her biography.

The HSUS has been accused of sending less than one percent of its funds to animal shelters, a charge that a spokesman in 2012 would not deny. According to IRS filings, the group took in $148,703,820 in revenue in 2010.

On May 12, 2010, Republican Missouri Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer wrote a letter to Lerner, expressing his concerns about the tax-exempt status of the HSUS, which is listed as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit group.

... you don't need a Weatherman to guess which way this "conflict-of-interest" will blow ...

Posted by: Bill Ayers at May 18, 2013 10:56 AM (e8kgV)

31 Posted by: chemjeff at May 18, 2013 10:53 AM (BBWjt)

If the pubs were to cut 5 dollars from NASA it woukd be framed that we hate the poor along with crippled children and cute puppies.

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 10:56 AM (Wl/Ht)

32
Shhhhh (not everyone needs to go to college, and that's OK). Pass it on.Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 10:44 AM (nH8jP)

-------------------------


THANK you. I would highly encourage any young'un to learn a trade. We have plenty of cubicle rats.

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 18, 2013 10:57 AM (hC80d)

33 The fuckers that write papers and such about "Hispanics" (I hate this fucking word) beingconservativeI reckon never spent time anywhere in Latin America. The indigenous peoples tended to be communal focused, not rugged individualists and the places where the Spaniards went, the government kicked everyone's ass and decided who got what unless you were one of the privileged few that were Gachupin (Iberia born) or Criollo(born in the new world but still solidly Spanish, no indig blood in you). So people coming fromthere tend to expect strong government owning everything or dictating much of life. Fuck them.

Posted by: fastfreefall at May 18, 2013 10:57 AM (S/Joz)

34 Why do we have to do anything right now other than secure the border. We have proof positive all around us that our government is corrupt. Why do this now?


They are gonna lose the next elections unless we agree to this and they know it


Why the urgency now?

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 10:58 AM (nH8jP)

Posted by: unicorns at May 18, 2013 11:00 AM (6TB1Z)

36 In before hector and his Guatemalan beard.

Posted by: toby928© at May 18, 2013 11:00 AM (QupBk)

37 You know, we're getting damn tired of carrying the load on everything. How about you guys get some new fall guys, huh?

Posted by: unicorns at May 18, 2013 11:01 AM (6TB1Z)

38 We're not that heavy.

Posted by: skittles at May 18, 2013 11:01 AM (QupBk)

39 The Republican establishment is a bunch of idiots. I don't see the party surviving this if it passes. What would be the point?

They better be able to get all 30 million of the foreigners they are going to import to vote for them because they will no longer have a base.

Posted by: Thatch at May 18, 2013 11:02 AM (qYvEa)

40 We have to hire more IRS agents to get that agency under control. Federal bureaucrats are Natural Conservatives.

Posted by: Underwear Gnome at May 18, 2013 11:02 AM (FcR7P)

41 Why indeed Thunderb. Its easy to feel like the GOP establishment would prefer being the minority party in a giant government to winning and working to trim the fed government to a sustainable level like we conservatives want.

Posted by: PaleRider at May 18, 2013 11:02 AM (m+nIW)

42 It was only a few months ago that the narrative was that Obama aimed to destroy the Republican party for good. Things change and now it appears that Obama might settle for just finishing his term in office. So the stupid party intends to destroy itself in his place. I have voted for and donated to Republican candidates for quite some time. If amnesty passes, I will never vote for a republican again. Fucking traitors to this nation.

Posted by: Dan in Michigan at May 18, 2013 11:02 AM (2yD4G)

43 Can someone please tell me what yhe hell is wrong with current 'path?' If we had secure borders (LOL) this would be fine.


Eligibility Requirements
If you are a green card holder of at least 5 years, you must meet the following requirements in order to apply for naturalization:  

Be 18 or older at the time of filing

Be a green card holder for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the Form N-400, Application for Naturalization

Have lived within the state, or USCIS district with jurisdiction over the applicant’s place of residence, for at least 3 months prior to the date of filing the application

Have continuous residence in the United States as a green card holder for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application

Be physically present in the United States for at least 30 months out of the 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application

Reside continuously within the United States from the date of application for naturalization up to the time of naturalization

Be able to read, write, and speak English and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government (civics).

Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 11:03 AM (Wl/Ht)

44 "Hispanics" (I hate this fucking word)

Too broad. The GOP's apparent ignorance of the vast divisions within "hispanic" has been costing them votes for many many decades.

I don't expect anything to change RE that anytime soon.

Posted by: @PurpAv at May 18, 2013 11:03 AM (/gHaE)

45 If amnesty passes, I will never vote for a republican again. Fucking traitors to this nation.

That's my position, too.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 11:04 AM (JQuNB)

46 Why the urgency now?

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 10:58 AM (nH8jP)

This might be their last chance to screw the country for a while if the scandals unravel, and don't believe that RINOs aren't pro-amnesty, even though it makes no sense, except that they too believe they will be safe inside their gated cities after the apocalypse. They irrationally forget who will be storming the gates.

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 18, 2013 11:04 AM (Cnqmv)

47 WooHoo my IP changed to a non-banned # while I was outside.

Posted by: PaleRider at May 18, 2013 11:05 AM (m+nIW)

48 "Why the urgency now?"

I think some of them are so fucking stupid they actually believe that allowing these people in the system is fiscally beneficial to the government. Even though the fed spends an average of 31,000 a year now every family in America. Yet this time these new "taxpayers" won't be a burden on the state somehow.

Posted by: lowandslow at May 18, 2013 11:06 AM (Fz2C7)

49 After reading yesterday that the House has some kind
of tentative "compromise," the fix is in. The House was the only thing
protecting us from this nightmare. disputable, empirical evidence that these people will not vote
conservative, or even moderate....and our elite don't care. They want
this. And we're going to get it.


Posted by: Lady in Black (I haven't read all the comments yet, but....) at May 18, 2013 10:51 AM (ovWeo)
The House bill has to get through the Judiciary Committee, where most Republicans including the chairman are opposed to a comprehensive bill.Anything that has legalization before enforcement, like the Senate bill, is not going to get a majority of GOP votes in the House. So it basically comes down to whether the GOP conference will let Boner get away with violating the Hastert rule on immigration. My guess is no, but we'll see.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 18, 2013 11:06 AM (gZIOq)

50 Friendsh, we have nothing to fear from a Marco Rubio presidency...

Posted by: Jeff Flake at May 18, 2013 11:07 AM (JQuNB)

51 I don't think it's wise to acept this one poll at face value without getting the raw data. The government question could have been one where a sizable number were noncommittal/don't understand, and there was a follow-up "nudge" question to get them to give an answer one way or another. Such as "Would you rather the government did more things that benefitted you or less"? Put that way (or similar), one can imagine them saying "Oh, more, of course"

Posted by: Landru at May 18, 2013 11:07 AM (x8l09)

52 Why does Rush Limbaugh allow the Ryan/Rubio amnesty ads to run on his EIB network?


Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 11:08 AM (Cs2tJ)

53 They are counting on rage fatigue

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:08 AM (nH8jP)

54 Yet this time these new "taxpayers" won't be a burden on the state somehow.


Posted by: lowandslow at May 18, 2013 11:06 AM (Fz2C7)

Yes, lawn care competition, anchor babies, chain immigration, and voting "rights" will save the economy. Why there is simply no reason a non-English speaking "taker" would ever want to come here!

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 18, 2013 11:09 AM (Cnqmv)

55 My IRS will investigate all groups that call me a cocksucker.

Posted by: Marco Rubio at May 18, 2013 11:09 AM (JQuNB)

56 One word: secession.

Posted by: Soona at May 18, 2013 11:09 AM (mOiQ8)

57 Amnesty is a non-starter. Reference Steve Miller's non-answers on what he wouldn't do in your mouth.

Posted by: Minuteman at May 18, 2013 11:10 AM (YOWAW)

58 We haff vays.....

Posted by: The IRStapo at May 18, 2013 11:10 AM (hC80d)

59 Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 11:08 AM (Cs2tJ)

"The capitalists will sell us the very rope we use to hang them!"

Posted by: K Marx at May 18, 2013 11:10 AM (Cnqmv)

60 Posted by: Landru at May 18, 2013 11:07 AM (x8l09)

You're right about reading too much into a single poll but that's why I included the other links. It's not one poll, it's many. It's not just polling, it's voting history.

At some point Team Amnesty should be decent enough to believe what they are being told.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 18, 2013 11:11 AM (1dCTA)

61 "The capitalists will sell us the very rope we use to hang them!"


Posted by: K Marx at May 18, 2013 11:10 AM (Cnqmv)

Da.

Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 11:11 AM (Cs2tJ)

62 Why have we forgotten Fast Furious?

Do we just think - awww . . . We have enough scandals. Expiration date exceeded?

Posted by: Handcuffed to the Bumper of a State Trooper's Ford at May 18, 2013 11:12 AM (eMtQ2)

63 It isn't the poll. Live on a border state and taste the rainbow!

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:12 AM (nH8jP)

64 56 One word: secession.

I agree with Walter Williams. The wisest thing the feds could do now is to specify clearly how states might secede peacefully. If it comes to the point that the states must separate, let's at least not have another war over it.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 11:12 AM (JQuNB)

65 62
Why have we forgotten Fast Furious?

It conflicts with my pedicure appointments. We have other irons in the fire anyway. Send me money.

Posted by: D. Issa at May 18, 2013 11:13 AM (Cs2tJ)

66 The House bill has to get through the Judiciary Committee, where most
Republicans including the chairman are opposed to a comprehensive
bill.Anything that has legalization before enforcement, like the Senate
bill, is not going to get a majority of GOP votes in the House.



There was a report out this past week that they had reached a "compromise" in the House. IOW they are going to sell us out again. The PARTY wants this for some incredibly stupid reason.

Posted by: Vic at May 18, 2013 11:14 AM (53z96)

67 62
Why have we forgotten Fast Furious?


It was a long time ago.

Posted by: Jay Carney at May 18, 2013 11:14 AM (JQuNB)

68 Lets just speak plainly: in Latin America, the hispanics have never really mastered the civilization game. Most L.A. countries are dirt poor, failed or semi-failed states. As a result, all they really know is getting a hand out. Which is fine, but not here amigo. We're broke, get it esse?

Posted by: trump at May 18, 2013 11:14 AM (F8Lnm)

69 Salsa is being displaced by hummus in the condiment rankings.

Think of the implications.

Posted by: blaster at May 18, 2013 11:14 AM (5t86S)

70 Well, just about the only upside I can see in all this is that McAmnesty will finish-off what is left of the pathetically inept GOP and perhaps usher-in the Era Of Burning a little quicker than the late-2014, early-2015 time-frame I was banking on.

That this is just about the only upside I can see is of course a crystal-clear indication of how totally freaking screwed are we.

Posted by: DocJ at May 18, 2013 11:15 AM (du8Bm)

71 Bumper stickers:
FUCK ILLEGALS
FUCK THE IRS

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at May 18, 2013 11:15 AM (P3dtw)

72 In addition, as has been pointed out before, the ideology of a vast amount of Republicans isn't really conservatism, they are big government leftists who think the GOP can manage better. And this includes our leadership.

Posted by: lowandslow at May 18, 2013 11:15 AM (Fz2C7)

73 It's like both crony parties want bigger government...

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at May 18, 2013 11:15 AM (AWmfW)

74 Mexicans don't care about "government" per se...they read that questions as free welfare cash and EBTs (food stamps).

They would vote for a government made up of just one guy...as long as that one guy was sending out the checks.

Posted by: Icedog at May 18, 2013 11:15 AM (9ScGj)

75 Amnesty will totally make Hispanics love the GOP. That's why California is an even stronger GOP state than when it was Reagan's stronghold.

Posted by: buzzion at May 18, 2013 11:15 AM (LI48c)

76 52Why does Rush Limbaugh allow the Ryan/Rubio amnesty ads to run on his EIB network?


Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 11:08 AM (Cs2tJ)They may not be network spots, but local station spots.

Posted by: olddog in mo at May 18, 2013 11:17 AM (A9na/)

77 Posted by: Jay Carney at May 18, 2013 11:14 AM (JQuNB)


And we've taken steps to ensure it won't happen again (or at least fixed it so you won't find out about it when it happens again)!

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 18, 2013 11:17 AM (Cnqmv)

78 At some point Team Amnesty should be decent enough to believe what they are being told.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 18, 2013 11:11 AM (1dCTA)

They have an agenda , they cant be honest in what they want.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at May 18, 2013 11:18 AM (AWmfW)

79 That's so cute. You think someone in government has the decency to be honest!

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:19 AM (nH8jP)

80 Is Jason Collins still gay? Haven't heard anything about him since. I thought he would winning the draft or wearing 5 rings or something by now.

Posted by: blaster at May 18, 2013 11:19 AM (5t86S)

81 Ace is right when he said we are now a government with a country and not the other way around. I never thought we would reach the point where DC ruled over this country against the wishes of the majority on almost every single issue.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 18, 2013 11:20 AM (jucos)

82
78 At some point Team Amnesty should be decent enough to believe what they are being told. Posted by: DrewM. at May 18, 2013 11:11 AM (1dCTA) They have an agenda , they cant be honest in what they want.
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at May 18, 2013 11:18 AM (AWmfW)


Marco Rubio has admitted that he refuses to believe anything other than his bullshit delusional fantasy that Hispanics are naturally conservative. He needs to be locked up in a mental ward and put on medication.

Posted by: buzzion at May 18, 2013 11:20 AM (LI48c)

83 The next amnesty will be when the reconquistas decide which whites will live and which will die.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at May 18, 2013 11:20 AM (P3dtw)

84 Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 18, 2013 11:20 AM (jucos)


The liberals are pretty close to all out success at creating utopia here in the USofA.

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 18, 2013 11:21 AM (Cnqmv)

85 So let them hear it, like with gun control? Melt the phone lines. They still need your money to run for office. Let them know they will never get it

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:22 AM (nH8jP)

86 @ 79 That's so cute. You think someone in government has the decency to be honest!

Yeah - seriously they're like your average guy on a date. "No sweetie, I would never do that in your mouth." Or, "Absolutely. Just the tip, I promise."

They have the capacity to be honest, as does your average guy. They just have absolutely no incentive.

Posted by: DocJ at May 18, 2013 11:22 AM (du8Bm)

87 I'm absolutely against the pro-amnesty crowd.

However, I'm equally against the knee-jerk no-immigrant crowd.

There are a group of us out there that favors a new system that secures the borders, identifies who is here and where they came from, makes it easier to immediately deport criminals and other undesirables, provides the basis for a cost recovery system for social services and also makes available a very long and difficult road to citizenship for a limited number immigrants.

Of course, it's hard to make the case for this type of approach because each and every point has a million scenarios that can be conflated and twisted to "show" how anything like this can't be done. For some reason, there are people who believe that the current system of illegals pouring over the borders and immediately getting every social service program is just fine and shouldn't be messed with.

For those who know, deep down, that the government will never start kicking doors down and deporting every grandmother and little child with an accent, it may be time to consider something that would improve the situation.

Posted by: jwest at May 18, 2013 11:23 AM (u2a4R)

88 The liberals are pretty close to all out success at creating utopia here in the USofA.

Well, the chocolate ration IS up to 15gm from 20. Progress is being made every day comrade.

Posted by: @PurpAv at May 18, 2013 11:23 AM (/gHaE)

89 Hmm.

I lived in Del Rio, Texas for a few years and I do know that this mythical creature does exist.

Ciro Rodriguez spoke at the first Tea Party there and got elected to Congress.

I knew plenty of small business owners who worked their butts off and were sending their kids to private schools and expecting them to work hard.

I don't know how to square that with the surveys. Maybe they were 3rd or 4th generation, maybe they were working too hard to answer surveys.

Don't know.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 11:23 AM (SUKHu)

90 Salsa is being displaced by hummus in the condiment rankings. Think of the implications.
Posted by: blaster at May 18, 2013 11:14 AM (5t86S)

*****

We used to go out on East Colfax Ave. to get hummus.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at May 18, 2013 11:24 AM (pxDth)

91 85
So let them hear it, like with gun control? Melt the phone lines. They
still need your money to run for office. Let them know they will never
get it

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:22 AM (nH8jP)

Perhaps AoS HQ could lead this initiative? POst this in the header wevery day?
Haha, who the fuck am I kidding?

Posted by: D. Issa at May 18, 2013 11:24 AM (Cs2tJ)

92 "29
Is there any other real path to limited, constitutional government
outside of a Let It Burn scenario? Because I really don't see it.

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at May 18, 2013 10:56 AM (Yv6gq)"

Actually, yes. This IRS scandal is actually encouraging in that it argues against the idea that the United States is not the nation of Obama worshipers that the November, 2012 election would suggest. The fact that the poor Republican showing is due to the illegal harassment of American citizens for their involvement in the political process means that there is some hope other than Let it Burn.

Let's see how this works out. The Clinton impeachment experience of the 1990s demonstrated that no Democrat President can ever be removed from office by impeachment even if he is guilty of the crimes he is charged with. However, there are plenty of lower level minions who are guilty of (according to rd brewer):
• 28 USC 7414: willful oppression under color of law related to revenue laws

• 18 USC 241 242: conspiracy against rights and deprivation of rights under color of law

• The Hatch Act: prohibits civil servants from engaging in political activity

• And probably other laws.

Remember how Osama bin Laden was rendered powerless for years before he was killed by targeting his underlings. For a while there it seemed that a new Third highest ranking al Qaeda guy was being killed every month. At this point I don't advocate killing high ranking Democrats but they are guilty of felonies and they need to be sent to prison for them.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 11:24 AM (31Nrp)

93 Is Jason Collins still gay? Haven't heard anything
about him since. I thought he would winning the draft or wearing 5
rings or something by now.

Posted by: blaster
-----------------------

Yeah, you'd think we would have heard a little more about him, after Diane Sawyer referred to him on the news as "A powerhouse NBA player." I mean, he must be pretty important..., not there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at May 18, 2013 11:24 AM (aDwsi)

94 So let them hear it, like with gun control? Melt the phone lines. They still need your money to run for office. Let them know they will never get it
Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:22 AM (nH8jP)
------------------------------------------------------
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Posted by: The IRS Commisar at May 18, 2013 11:25 AM (jucos)

95 When countries like Canada and Australia, who used to let anybody in, tightened up their requirements recently, maybe that's a clue?

Posted by: @PurpAv at May 18, 2013 11:25 AM (/gHaE)

96 Mama AJ I live in Houston. I have not seen these mythical creatures.

Posted by: Thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:26 AM (nH8jP)

97 As Iowahawk just tweeted, is it not a sign of the End of Civilization
that a painting of a nude Bea Arthur just sold for at auction $1.9
million?

Posted by: jeannebodine at May 18, 2013 11:26 AM (LBBS3)

98 However, I'm equally against the knee-jerk no-immigrant crowd.


Thanks. I was wondering when I would get out of that barn.

Posted by: Straw Man at May 18, 2013 11:26 AM (z9HTb)

99 7
I'm absolutely against the pro-amnesty crowd.



However, I'm equally against the knee-jerk no-immigrant crowd.




Posted by: jwest at May 18, 2013 11:23 AM (u2a4R)

And then there's the strawman crowd.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at May 18, 2013 11:26 AM (AWmfW)

100 Posted by: jwest at May 18, 2013 11:23 AM (u2a4R)

Most conservatives would agree with "Secure the border, then we'll talk." That's not an unreasonable position.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 11:26 AM (JQuNB)

101 Will the oath to the Donk party be in multiple languages?

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 11:27 AM (Wl/Ht)

102 Running of the bulls. Militant bull dykes including that evil scrunt from hell at the IRS. Napolitano, Kagan...God help us.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at May 18, 2013 11:27 AM (P3dtw)

103 We used to go out on East Colfax Ave. to get hummus. Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at May 18, 2013 11:24 AM (pxDth)We used to go to East Colfax Ave. to pawn some of our silverware, tank up on liquor, get a touch-up on our tattoo and top it off with some POOOOON-Tang! All within one block.

Posted by: Minuteman at May 18, 2013 11:27 AM (YOWAW)

104 My cootchie is legend.

Posted by: Bea Arthur at May 18, 2013 11:28 AM (JQuNB)

105 "For some reason, there are people who believe that the current system of
illegals pouring over the borders and immediately getting every social
service program is just fine and shouldn't be messed with."

Show me an immigration bill that fixes this, then we can talk.

Posted by: lowandslow at May 18, 2013 11:28 AM (Fz2C7)

106
89 Hmm. I lived in Del Rio, Texas for a few years and I do know that this mythical creature does exist. Ciro Rodriguez spoke at the first Tea Party there and got elected to Congress. I knew plenty of small business owners who worked their butts off and were sending their kids to private schools and expecting them to work hard. I don't know how to square that with the surveys. Maybe they were 3rd or 4th generation, maybe they were working too hard to answer surveys. Don't know.
Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 11:23 AM (SUKHu)


There certainly absolutely are conservative hispanics. I doubt most of them though are swayed by pandering identity politics where the government is attempting to reward criminals and screw over the people actually trying to become citizens through the proper channels.

Posted by: buzzion at May 18, 2013 11:29 AM (LI48c)

107 #87 I'm against the knee jerk crowd that leaves the word "illegal" out of the discussion when it comes to immigration.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at May 18, 2013 11:30 AM (P3dtw)

108 >>Mama AJ I live in Houston. I have not seen these mythical creatures.

Maybe they only show themselves in small Texas towns!

Drew, if you really want to find some, I'd suggest asking Rep. Rodriguez's office for sitings.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 11:30 AM (SUKHu)

109 You know what happen to ILLEGAL immigrants who cross over the Mexican border from Central America?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 18, 2013 11:32 AM (jucos)

110 Our country is insane. I'm sure everyone here who listens to radio has heard the pro amnesty ads going right now.. They make me sick. Paul Ryan? really? dude. I turn it off every time it comes on. What is going on here? Funny how none of the republicans promoting this are from SoCal.. haha we're being over-run and its not funny. Easy calling for amnesty from Wisconsin

Yeah, giving 20 million people the right to vote and free obamacare and whatever free shit they want is GREAT for society. We'll win another election right around NEVER.

Are these people being blackmailed? Seriously how stupid can this be. We must kill amnesty now. Tie it into the terror attacks or something.. anything

After this IRS nightmare with them deciding life and death with obamacare next year, I think we should become political psychos and fight like hell for everything. If we don't the country is over

Posted by: Yep. times up asshole at May 18, 2013 11:32 AM (QTvb7)

111 “These are all different agencies of government. This administration owns the failures, but not necessarily the direct blame … we’re looking at each individual case so it’s very different than what you view historically as a target where it [was] always about President Clinton. This isn’t about President Obama,” House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) told The Hill.

Posted by: Hilarity Clinton at May 18, 2013 11:33 AM (e8kgV)

112 Government is not there to provide financial assistance or education.

Welfare and government education themselves are the problem.

Get rid of them.

Amnesty is a grab for votes and a grab for new numbers to plug into the Entitlement spreadsheets.

Do not listen to any arguments in favor of amnesty. They are a toxic mixture of lies and stupidity.

Build the fence and toss the trespassers out.

Posted by: eman at May 18, 2013 11:35 AM (cQ4xo)

113
I'm sorry - I know most morons can't stand Michele Bachmann, but she makes a fantastically persuasive intelligentcase tying Obamacare to all of these scandals, with nary a stumble.

Posted by: Marybeth at May 18, 2013 11:35 AM (zFUKI)

114 So this Huma Abedin gets to do special consulting stuff thing is in the NYT but mostly to minimize it.

No said is on whose behalf she is consulting. Could it be Middle East concerns? We don't know because they won't say.

But remember Michelle Bachmann was rude to suggest any sort of impropriety.

Posted by: blaster at May 18, 2013 11:36 AM (5t86S)

115
There was a report out this past week that they
had reached a "compromise" in the House. IOW they are going to sell us
out again. The PARTY wants this for some incredibly stupid reason.


Posted by: Vic at May 18, 2013 11:14 AM (53z96)
The House "gang" has reached a compromise, that doesn't mean a majority of the House GOP will support it.
I have no doubt that Boner would sell us out and pass an amnesty with mostly Dem votes if he could, but I'm not sure he can.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 18, 2013 11:36 AM (gZIOq)

116 How Conservatives Can Appeal To Hispanics.

Not so fast! I'm still reading 'How More Spending Can Cure The Deficit' Loved his last one, by the way, 'How Disarming Victims Makes Them Safer'.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 11:36 AM (FcR7P)

117 Posted by: Temper Tantrum at May 18, 2013 11:26 AM (AWmfW)

Are you telling me that those here at the HQ aren't rabidly against any and all immigration be it legal or not?

/s

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 11:36 AM (Wl/Ht)

118 Wow two Bachmann posts in a row.

As Instapundit asks, not are you paranoid, but are you paranoid enough?

Posted by: blaster at May 18, 2013 11:37 AM (5t86S)

119 I dare jwest to use the term "illegal immigrant" from now on.



Posted by: eman at May 18, 2013 11:37 AM (cQ4xo)

120 Marybeth, do not move! You are winning today's IP hash lottery.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 11:38 AM (FcR7P)

121 You know what happen to ILLEGAL immigrants who cross over the Mexican border from Central America?


They slapped around by the cops before getting dropped at the Arizona border?

Posted by: fluffy at May 18, 2013 11:38 AM (z9HTb)

122 What slap in the face to those who have gotten their citizenship the 'legal' way:

Send in application with $680 fee; wait however long; take the civics test. First sample question on the civic test:
Q. What are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy?
A. vote and join a civic group (yah, good luck with that, you filthy tea partier).

How about this question?
Q. Who was President during World War I?

How many of the new imports would be able to answer that questions? Doesn't matter. Here's your citizenship.

Posted by: Marge at May 18, 2013 11:38 AM (RbHYC)

123 Are these people being blackmailed?

Not in the least.

Posted by: Koch Bros. at May 18, 2013 11:38 AM (Cs2tJ)

124 I prefer the term "illegitimate immigrants" (AKA Los Bastardos)

Posted by: Hilarity Clinton at May 18, 2013 11:39 AM (e8kgV)

125 Gmorning RINOs
Here how amnesty CAN work:
Start a company which makes security fences with automated .50cal every 500 feet
Call your new company AMNESTY

Taadaa!!

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 18, 2013 11:39 AM (BKR67)

126 It goes like this:

1. Amnesty
2. ?????
3. Electoral victory!!1!

Posted by: Underpants Gnomes at May 18, 2013 11:39 AM (Vk2pI)

127 We do need to streamline the path for foreign students who study infrastructure at 1230 in the morning in the darkness while trespassing.

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 11:40 AM (Wl/Ht)

128 How about this question?


Q. Explain the Bush Doctrine

Posted by: Sarah Palin at May 18, 2013 11:40 AM (e8kgV)

129 I've known Michelle Bachman was an idiot since my gestation. We knew stuff in the Pleistocene.

Posted by: Bea Arthur at May 18, 2013 11:40 AM (JQuNB)

130 "I know most morons can't stand Michele Bachmann"

I have a hell of lot more respect for Bachmann then the pundits (including conservative ones) that try and marginalize her.

Posted by: lowandslow at May 18, 2013 11:40 AM (Fz2C7)

131

This was an interesting take over at the Shark Tank:

excerpt:

Unreal: “The parents watch Univision and think Marco Rubio is against them”

In a matter of 65 seconds, our activist friend gives us an entire summation of the ongoing campaign to delegitimize Marco Rubio (and by extension, all Hispanic conservatives). To wit:

Rubio has forsaken his roots (thus establishing Hispanic inauthenticity via race betrayal)

Rubio’s proposals are not amnestyish enough. Watch as the activist goes back to her race-betrayal argument when the interviewer points out that Rubio supports a path to citizenship.
And then, the money shot. “The parents…they watch Univision, you know, and they think that Rubio is against them”.

Never mind that many of the parents had no idea who Rubio was, or that the overseeing activists either concealed or lied about the origin of the hand-made signs (“Look, the social worker just gave it to us”. The guy from CASA just kept his mouth shut, and the anti-Rubio lady outright lied by saying that the protesters hand-wrote them). The purpose of this pressure campaign is to get Rubio either to submit to “the whole enchilada”, or to alter the bill to the point where Rubio has no choice but to walk away, thus giving the Left/Media/Professional Latino complex additional new grievances with which to attempt to impeach his Hispanic authenticity (and disqualify him from 2016 and beyond).


Rock and a hard place. That is where Rubio is, now.



http://tinyurl.com/coulhqt

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 18, 2013 11:40 AM (XYSwB)

132 When Amnesty passes a force field will pop up between the USA and Mexico and all illegal immigration will suddenly come to a halt.

It's in the bill.

Posted by: eman at May 18, 2013 11:41 AM (cQ4xo)

133 120 Marybeth, do not move! You are winning today's IP hash lottery.Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 11:38 AM (FcR7P) Thank you! Noticed it last night - and loved it. Summed up my feelings about this thug administration nicely. Yours is great too!

Posted by: Marybeth at May 18, 2013 11:41 AM (zFUKI)

134 Most of us here, like most of the country are 3rd to 5th generation immigrants. Our ancestors came to a country where you didn't need to have been born to aristocracy to have a chance to make it big.

The thing is, that the liberals and facists now have so many laws and agencies to attack these upstart business start-ups and they use all of them. We have one of the higher business tax rates in the world and so on. This is not brand new of course but I think the fact has pretty well trickled out to the ambitious folks in the world and today the country is more attractive to folks wanting to join the FSA.

Posted by: PaleRider at May 18, 2013 11:42 AM (m+nIW)

135 Rock and a hard place. That is where Rubio is, now.



http://tinyurl.com/coulhqt
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 18, 2013 11:40 AM (XYSwB)

He is an American first, right?

If he is between a rock and a hard place right now, it is his fault.

Fuck him.

Posted by: eman at May 18, 2013 11:43 AM (cQ4xo)

136 "Today, students from low-income families are five times as likely to drop out of school as students from high-income families, according to data from the Department of Education. It is a civil-rights scandal that we effectively accept this opportunity-denying status quo. "


The analysis of this point needs to begin at "how the fuck is this a civil rights scanda"l?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at May 18, 2013 11:43 AM (NcPjb)

137 I'm not comfortable with the comparison of the IRS abuse to Watergate. Based solely on the little we already know, the IRS abuse seems to me already far worse than Watergate.

First, It is undisputed that the IRS turned its powers against ordinary Americans. In essence, the enemy list was not the opponent's campaign, it became ordinary voters. Ordinary citizens.

Second, unlike Watergate, the IRS debacle was not kept secret among just a few of a President's men -- a dozen professional political operatives in DC, as in Watergate. Instead, the IRS scandal operated in multiple offices for years. And after years of abuse and Congressional inquiries there was not a single whistleblower. No one in the IRS came forward to complain of the abuse. And what happened when Congress began investigating? You can't tell me that the IRS employees didn't know what lies their bosses were telling Congress. They knew their bosses were lying to Congress. Where were the honest employees? Can you name one who came forward when Congress was being told Tea Party was not being singled out for special scrutiny?

Only conclusion is that the IRS' political corruption is broad, deep and systemic. Truly frightening. The complicit silence within the IRS rank and file when IRS leadership was lying to Congress is every bit as scandalous as the targeting itself.

Posted by: USA at May 18, 2013 11:44 AM (VIaw0)

138 "89
Hmm.



I lived in Del Rio, Texas for a few years and I do know that this mythical creature does exist.



Ciro Rodriguez spoke at the first Tea Party there and got elected to Congress.



I knew plenty of small business owners who worked their butts off
and were sending their kids to private schools and expecting them to
work hard.



I don't know how to square that with the surveys. Maybe they were
3rd or 4th generation, maybe they were working too hard to answer
surveys.



Don't know.





Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 11:23 AM (SUKHu)"

I have lived in California and in Texas and I think that there is a difference in the culture or type of Hispanics who live in the two states. Maybe they come from different places in Mexico, maybe different types of people choose to move to California to collect money and to Texas to work. Maybe it is a difference in the way the states operate.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 11:45 AM (31Nrp)

139
CBS Sharyl Attkisson has a new Benghazi story. She has a source at State who told her

1. The JEF does not use the CSG and it was never convened
2. The CSG wanted to use the FEST Team
3. Senior administration officials had no idea what the FEST did and thought they were like telephone repairmen
4. Kennedy, Hillary's deputy, gave the stand down order to FEST, even though he is not in the FEST chain of command
5. State changed the talking point cause they thought the CIA threw them under the bus, and are still mad about it
6. No one will say who at State came up with the video idea

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:45 AM (nH8jP)

140 How many are there still in Mexico? Seems like we could move right in and just take it by now and no one would notice.

Posted by: Up With People at May 18, 2013 11:46 AM (krveP)

141 I still am waiting for the pro-amnesty/pro-illegal alien groups to answer these two questions:

1. Why is the United States the only country in the world that is not allowed to have laws on immigration without being accused of racism?
2. How would you justify illegal aliens getting this preferential treatment to legal immigrants that have been in the system for over one year?

Posted by: NR Pax at May 18, 2013 11:46 AM (U+O64)

142 >>spanics: You know, we like government. A lot. In fact, we want more of it!

>>GOP Team Amnesty: "We understand and to win you over we're going to "get the government out of the way". You're welcome!"

Well, like I said, there were a ton of small business owners. If they aren't already Republicans, I could see reaching out and explaining what things Republicans were doing to fight against excess regulations, etc. etc.

Of course you'd have to find Republicans who are actually doing something against excess regulations, etc. etc....

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 11:46 AM (SUKHu)

143 I remember when 'Hispanics' were called 'Chicanos'. I wonder why the term changed?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 18, 2013 11:47 AM (jucos)

144 The HMS Ark Royal (R09) was featured in the 1960s British television series "Not Only... But Also" starring Peter Cook and Dudley Moore. In one episode, they used the ship's catapult to shoot a piano into the sea. When commissions ended, items were fired off the catapult, including pianos and once a toilet complete with paying-off pennant.

Posted by: Geoffrey Chaucer at May 18, 2013 11:47 AM (e8kgV)

145 As a follow up to point #2 on 141: I want the video sold on PPV when some pro-amnesty type tries to explain this to a legal immigrant.

Posted by: NR Pax at May 18, 2013 11:48 AM (U+O64)

146 I'm thinking it's got to be the money from big business that's funding
the Republicans push for amnesty. What else could it possibly be?

Oh,
there's the special case of Marco Rubio who needs the Hispanic vote for
re-election and I'm sure there's others who have specific demographic
issues. But you can't tell me that any of these pols really believe in
anything other than re-election.

And I refuse to believe they're
actually thinking long-term about future generations of Hispanics
paying into Social Security, Medicare, etc. to keep it semi-solvent. I
doubt these dirt-bags ever think beyond their next re-election campaign.


Any politician who really cared about the country would see
that now is not the time to address this issue with a monster bill that
will contain pay-offs, expand government, divide the country, have
detrimental effects on the culture and cost us a billions (trillions?)
of dollars that we don't have. It's got to be big business campaign contributions, period. We are so screwed.

Posted by: jeannebodine at May 18, 2013 11:48 AM (LBBS3)

147
The officials spoke to CBS News in a series of interviews and communications under the condition of anonymity so that they could be more frank in their assessments. They do not all agree on the list of mistakes and it's important to note that they universally claim that any errors or missteps did not cost lives and reflect "incompetence rather than malice or cover up." Nonetheless, in the eight months since the attacks, this is the most sweeping and detailed discussion by key players of what might have been done differently.

"We're portrayed by Republicans as either being lying or idiots," said one Obama administration official who was part of the Benghazi response. "It's actually closer to us being idiots."

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:48 AM (nH8jP)

148 Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 18, 2013 11:47 AM (jucos)

Because it is obviously racist.

I have no idea why or how it can possibly construed as such, but rest assured; I am correct.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 18, 2013 11:48 AM (O6Tmi)

149 Taadaa!!
Posted by: Navycopjoe


The tagline of "Amnesty Is Everyone's Right!" should guarantee us tax-free status. Did I mention we'll be selling the Amnesty AR-15?

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 11:48 AM (FcR7P)

150
The Foreign Emergency Support Team known as "FEST" is described as "the US Government's only interagency, on-call, short-notice team poised to respond to terrorist incidents worldwide." It even boasts hostage-negotiating expertise. With U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens reported missing shortly after the Benghazi attacks began, Washington officials were operating under a possible hostage scenario at the outset. Yet deployment of the counterterrorism experts on the FEST was ruled out from the start. That decision became a source of great internal dissent and the cause of puzzlement to some outsiders.

Thursday, an administration official who was part of the Benghazi response told CBS News: "I wish we'd sent it."

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:49 AM (nH8jP)

151 Posted by: eman at May 18, 2013 11:43 AM (cQ4xo)

Rubio? Hmmm, Rubio..

Doesn't ring a bell anymore.

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 11:50 AM (Wl/Ht)

152
The official said Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's deputy, Patrick Kennedy, quickly dispensed with the idea. A senior State Department official Thursday told CBS News, "Under Secretary Kennedy is not in the decision chain on FEST deployment" but would not directly confirm whether Kennedy or somebody else dismissed the FEST.
Whoever made the decision, it came amid sharp disagreement over the FEST's true capabilities. Kennedy and others at the State Department view the team as one that primarily restores communications at besieged embassies. However, the FEST's own mission statement describes a seasoned team of counterterrorism professionals who can respond "quickly and effectively to terrorist attacks... providing the fastest assistance possible" including "hostage negotiating expertise" and "time-sensitive information and intelligence." In fact, FEST leader Mark Thompson says Benghazi was precisely the sort of crisis to which his team is trained to respond.

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:50 AM (nH8jP)

153 America, Land of Opportunity Free Shit

Posted by: zsasz at May 18, 2013 11:50 AM (MMC8r)

154
While it was the State Department that's said to have taken FEST off the table, the team is directed by the White House National Security Council. Those officials expressed the same limited view of FEST's capabilities when CBS News asked on Nov. 1, 2012, why FEST hadn't deployed. The officials argued that FEST teams were "used in the past to re-establish infrastructure, communications, etc. after a devastating attack...That wasn't the need here."

As soon as word of the Benghazi attack reached Washington, FEST members "instinctively started packing," said an official involved in the response. "They were told they were not deploying by Patrick Kennedy's front office... In hindsight... I probably would've pushed the button."

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:51 AM (nH8jP)

155 Can we at least give amnesty to the hot babes from South America?
I would go for that

2 million Michelle Rodriguezs running around

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 18, 2013 11:51 AM (mL7EQ)

156 "Hispanics' were also once called 'Latinos'. Don't hear that anymore either.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 18, 2013 11:51 AM (jucos)

157 146
I'm thinking it's got to be the money from big business that's funding

the Republicans push for amnesty. What else could it possibly be?

You are wrong.

Posted by: Koch Bros. at May 18, 2013 11:51 AM (Cs2tJ)

158 Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:45 AM (nH8jP)

Having a brain fart here - CSG?

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 11:51 AM (Wl/Ht)

159 "I remember when 'Hispanics' were called 'Chicanos'. I wonder why the term changed?"

Because Chico and The Man was so fucking bad, it tainted it.

Posted by: lowandslow at May 18, 2013 11:52 AM (Fz2C7)

160 "Hispanics' were also once called 'Latinos'. Don't hear that anymore either.

Before that, it was 'chicano.'

I heard that in an old movie and it blew my mind.

Posted by: zsasz at May 18, 2013 11:52 AM (MMC8r)

161 "It's actually closer to us being idiots."

You're doing a disservice to idiots. Idiots would not lie for eight months. Why would they?

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 11:52 AM (FcR7P)

162
Last October, National Security Council (NSC) Spokesman Tommy Vietor told CBS News that the CSG wasn't needed because consultations were quickly underway at the highest levels. He indicated that, under the Obama administration, the function of the CSG has become a "lower level group" that "does different tasks" than under the Bush administration. "From the moment [President Obama] was briefed on the Benghazi attack, the response effort was handled by the most senior national security officials in government. Members of the CSG were of course involved in these meetings and discussions to support their bosses," said Vietor.

However, absent the CSG's collective advice, there's evidence that some high-level decision makers were unaware of all available resources. In October, on a phone call that included then-Deputy National Security Adviser Denis McDonough (now White House Chief of Staff), Vietor initially told CBS News: "I don't know what [FEST] is... it sounds antiquated."

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:52 AM (nH8jP)

163 I can't decide which career direction is more promising for me: smuggling or counterfeiting documents.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 11:53 AM (JQuNB)

164 >>Maybe they come from different places in Mexico, maybe different types of people choose to move to California to collect money and to Texas to work. Maybe it is a difference in the way the states operate.

Well, the food sure is different! Three and half years without a burrito...but ah, the wonder that is barbacoa...

Uh, what were we talking about??

Yeh, I think there is a difference, but I don't know whether it's the people or the way the states have treated the people.

Personal experience says how the people are treated is a big part of it.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 11:53 AM (SUKHu)

165
2 million Michelle Rodriguezs running around

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 18, 2013 11:51 AM (mL7EQ)


Agreed.

no, she doesn't scare me at all..[

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 11:54 AM (Wl/Ht)

166
On Sept. 14, the CIA's early version of the talking points credited the CIA with providing warnings on Sept. 10, 2012, that the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt, could come under attack and that Benghazi was in a precarious state. Others in the Obama administration saw this talking point comment as an instinctive, "knee-jerk cover your ass moment" on the CIA's part and some officials remain bitter today.

One of them said, "We thought, 'why are you guys throwing us under the bus?' ...They [CIA] made it seem like the State Department was given a warning they ignored. No specific warning was given." Petraeus, who resigned amid a sex scandal days after Mr. Obama's re-election, declined comment.

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:54 AM (nH8jP)

167 Just got HOSED on a Priceline flight. I don't suppose there's any way out of it , caveat emptor, huh.

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 18, 2013 11:54 AM (hC80d)

168 I'm thinking it's got to be the money from big business that's funding the Republicans push for amnesty.

It's the giant pot of taxpayer gold that flows into and (mostly) out of Washington every year. Big business is nothing compared to big government.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 11:55 AM (FcR7P)

169
As the various agencies worked to edit and approve the talking points on Sept. 14, Mr. Obama's Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes emailed that there would be a Deputies meeting the next morning to work out the issues. "That's polite code for let's not debate this on e-mail for 18 hours," said one official involved. (Ben Rhodes is the brother of CBS News President David Rhodes.)

Even today, nobody will say on the record, or even off the record to CBS News, who was at the Deputies meeting on the morning of Sept. 15, where the talking points were drastically pared down for Rice's use. The approved version called the attacks "demonstrations" that "evolved" after being "spontaneously inspired" by protest at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo. All mentions of terrorism, al Qaeda and previous warnings given by the CIA had been excised.


Sounds like Mr Rhodes, at the JEF's request, changed the talking points

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:55 AM (nH8jP)

170 Shhhhh (not everyone needs to go to college, and that's OK). Pass it on.


What? You mean it may not behoove you to indenture yourself to the student loan program? Hogwash!

Posted by: no good deed at May 18, 2013 11:55 AM (mjR67)

171 Before that, it was 'chicano.'

I heard that in an old movie and it blew my mind.
---
Yeah I once used the term "Jap" in a forum, having no clue that it was something we are not allowed to type. I thought it was an easy abbreviation. The banning told me different.

Posted by: Up With People at May 18, 2013 11:56 AM (krveP)

172 "Only conclusion is that the IRS' political
corruption is broad, deep and systemic. Truly frightening. The
complicit silence within the IRS rank and file when IRS leadership was
lying to Congress is every bit as scandalous as the targeting itself.

Posted by: USA at May 18, 2013 11:44 AM (VIaw0)"

Ronald Reagan fired most of the air traffic controllers and replaced them with new hires and yet the airplanes continued to fly and we did not see dozens of planes crashing into each other. Working as a low level IRS flunky is a much less demanding job. What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 11:56 AM (31Nrp)

173 Wondering how many of these new citizens want to become official Marine Umbrella Holders for the JEF?

Posted by: Marge at May 18, 2013 11:58 AM (RbHYC)

174
Counterterrorism Security Group

sounds like something you would convene during a suspected terrorist attack, no?

Posted by: thunderb at May 18, 2013 11:58 AM (nH8jP)

175 What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?


Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 11:56 AM (31Nrp)

What are the obstacles to eliminating the IRS is its entirety and replacing it with a consumption tax?

Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 11:58 AM (Cs2tJ)

176 164. The fear of her is part of the appeal

I drove her home twice when she was out here for lost
Drunk as shit but on of the few times she didn't drive herself

She was really down to earth and is much better looking in real life

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 18, 2013 11:58 AM (mL7EQ)

177 171 Before that, it was 'chicano.'

The term was in popular use when I was in the Army. Some Hispanics hate the term. They said it described a political orientation and nothing more. Maybe something like La Raza is now.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 11:59 AM (JQuNB)

178 Wondering how many of these new citizens want to become official Marine Umbrella Holders for the JEF?

Fewer than the number of Marines tempted to use the JEF's ass as an umbrella rack. Just a hunch on my part.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 11:59 AM (FcR7P)

179 Prefer Eva Mendes but Michelle Rodriguez would work.

Somewhere I read some polling in the last election that some unreasonably large portion - 40% or so - of Hispanics thought Obama was prolife.

That's some good campaign work.

Posted by: blaster at May 18, 2013 12:00 PM (5t86S)

180 175. Actually the IRS workers I believe are union

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 18, 2013 12:00 PM (mL7EQ)

181 172 "What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?"

Ummmm, their Union?

Posted by: Marge at May 18, 2013 12:01 PM (RbHYC)

182 But, Salma Hayek FTW.

Posted by: blaster at May 18, 2013 12:02 PM (5t86S)

183 180
175. Actually the IRS workers I believe are union

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 18, 2013 12:00 PM (mL7EQ)

The world needs ditch diggers too.

Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 12:02 PM (Cs2tJ)

184 "What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?"

The Democrat party?

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 12:02 PM (JQuNB)

185
"What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?"

The ammo shortage?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 18, 2013 12:03 PM (+z4pE)

186 "What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?"

This eliminationist rhetoric has to stop!

Posted by: Sheila Jackson Lee at May 18, 2013 12:04 PM (JQuNB)

187 Go to WWZ and read about the Afghani 8 year old bride.

Then be pissed at humanity for the rest of the day.

Hint- she didn't make it past the second day of marriage.


Nuke the fuckers from orbit. Turn that shit hole into glowing glass.

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 12:05 PM (Wl/Ht)

188 For those who know, deep down, that the government
will never start kicking doors down and deporting every grandmother and
little child with an accent, it may be time to consider something that would improve the situation.

Posted by: jwest at May 18, 201 11:23 AM (u2a4R)
Well, if they were conservative the IRS might be willing .... I am all for securing the borders first. Then culling through those who are here and deporting criminals, including those Big Sis released.. That scary German family who wants to practice their faith and homeschool their children -- yeah, they gotta go.

Posted by: gracepmc at May 18, 2013 12:05 PM (rznx3)

189 What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 11:56 AM (31Nrp)


Ummmmm, hellloooo?

Posted by: Teh One and Future King at May 18, 2013 12:06 PM (/lWM8)

190
48"Why the urgency now?"

I think some of them are so fucking stupid they actually believe that allowing these people in the system is fiscally beneficial to the government
^^^This^^^
Call them RINO's, whatev...what they reallyare once they get their DC ticket punched is a STATIST. Even though they (R, D, I) like to talk about reform, they see the majesty that is Federal Gubment, and just can't fucking help themselves.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at May 18, 2013 12:06 PM (7nrMd)

191 Go to WWZ and read about the Afghani 8 year old bride.

Celebrate diversity!

Posted by: Nancy Lugosi at May 18, 2013 12:07 PM (JQuNB)

192
What gets me about the "deal" that was worked out in the House is that
it was billed as another great compromise for conservatives.


I
want to know why it is always conservatives who must give in these
so-called compromises. If I walk into a bank and demand $1,000 free
money from the bank will it be a compromise if I agree to accept only
$500?


I think not. In a true compromise both sides give up
something and both sides get something. The only thing we have got in
the past 30 to 50 years is the shaft.


Posted by: Vic at May 18, 2013 10:48 AM (53z96)

The way the *compromise* drift has been going, the bank would compromise by giving you 50k, per year, for life.

Posted by: Grimmy at May 18, 2013 12:09 PM (uUsh9)

193 "181
172 "What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?"



Ummmm, their Union?



Posted by: Marge at May 18, 2013 12:01 PM (RbHYC)"

The air traffic controllers were in a union as well.

I wonder how that would appeal as a political slogan, particularly among low information voters.

"Vote Republican. We are going to fire everybody at the IRS."

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 12:10 PM (31Nrp)

194 I still want every single advocate of open borders (for us, but for no one else, funny that) to go home and take their front doors off and leave their home open to whoever wants to come in.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 18, 2013 12:11 PM (+z4pE)

195 191 Go to WWZ and read about the Afghani 8 year old bride.

Celebrate diversity!
Posted by: Nancy Lugosi at May 18, 2013 12:07 PM (JQuNB)

My thinking was 'savages,' then I look at some of my fellow 'countrymen.'

Thankfully it's range day.

Posted by: RWC ☭ = ☁ ☹ ☁ at May 18, 2013 12:11 PM (Wl/Ht)

196 I ask again:

If the illegals are such a boon to economic growth, why doesn't Mexico want them?

Posted by: zsasz at May 18, 2013 12:12 PM (MMC8r)

197 O/T:
California parents are being urged to keep their children home from
school on May 22, the state’s official day for conducting “exercises” to
honor the notorious homosexual activist and reported pedophile Harvey
Milk.


Posted by: Attila at May 18, 2013 12:13 PM (Cs2tJ)

198 so we become democrats.

what will the dems become to differentiate themslves?

o right fully communist

Posted by: Inappropriate Big Lebowski Reference at May 18, 2013 12:13 PM (xJPAY)

199 Call them RINO's, whatev...what they reallyare once they get their DC ticket punched is a STATIST.

$4 trillion passes thru just 535 hands in Washington every year. Unlike GM, they don't even have to make cars to earn that money, they just have to say they're going to make cars.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 12:14 PM (FcR7P)

200 175
What are the obstacles to mass firings at the IRS?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 11:56 AM (31Nrp)

What are the obstacles to eliminating the IRS is its entirety and replacing it with a consumption tax?

Well, my Congresscritter -- a good no drama guy--has co sponsored three bills to eliminate or reduce the powers of the IRS. For what it's worth.

http://tinyurl.com/cfn676q










Posted by: gracepmc at May 18, 2013 12:15 PM (rznx3)

201 True (second hand) story from wif's FB page: Guy is getting out of his car that has a "NOBama" sticker on it. Older guy approaches him and says: "I haven't liked Alabama since Bear Bryant left..."

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at May 18, 2013 12:15 PM (7nrMd)

202
171 Before that, it was 'chicano.'



The term was in popular use when I was in the Army. Some Hispanics
hate the term. They said it described a political orientation and
nothing more. Maybe something like La Raza is now.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 11:59 AM (JQuNB)

The Chicano movement was part of the same agitprop that created mecha and the La Raza (The Race) operations. Actual Chicanos are the armed wing of the movement. They're the hispanic version of Black Guerrilla Family or Aryan Brotherhood.Read up on La Raza. Insurrection, genocide, etc. And it's freely preached on every college campus in this country.

Posted by: Grimmy at May 18, 2013 12:16 PM (uUsh9)

203 Idiot alert!

I mixed up the names of the congress critters.

Quico Canseco is the tea party/republican guy and he lost last year.

Soo...mythical it is, I guess.

A round of margheritas for my friends...

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 12:16 PM (SUKHu)

204 "Vote Republican. We are going to fire everybody at the IRS."

And if our candidate is Rick Perry, we can add at most one other department to that slogan. Either of the two DOE's would be nice, but I'm going for the EPA.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 12:17 PM (FcR7P)

205
True (second hand) story from wif's FB page: Guy is getting out of his car that has a "NOBama" sticker on it. Older guy approaches him and says: "I haven't liked Alabama since Bear Bryant left..."

This Bama Fan snorfled.

A lot.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 18, 2013 12:18 PM (+z4pE)

206 Just don't get a close a look at Mexifornia before you make any decisions on an immigration Bill.
On the other hand if we can give a good down field block to the "we need low information, cheap labor crowd", then their frog out here will be fully cooked in a year or too...
Invade Mexico and Liberate their country!!!!!

Posted by: Clemenza at May 18, 2013 12:18 PM (3GuQx)

207 OT: why it is important to be firm and disciplined, and yet unyielding, on provable malfeasance by Progs, either of the legal or ethical variety--because we know about the IRS stuff, and we have a feel for the Benghazi stuff, but all the other extracurricula activities over the years--looking at divorce filings; tracking folks emails and other tricks the Left-leaning IT community did; leaking of government record like Joe the Plumber had done and like the IRS non-profit applications sent to Prog groups; campus groups constantly denying conservatives speaking rights by disrupting talks and getting away with it because administrations are Prog too; the number of illegals and felons who ended up voting in elections--well, we are never going to know the full details ("known but to God"), or even ever have but the fuzziest hint of the outlines, and we should not go on a witch-hunt....

....but neither should we think that our Juicebox Prog friends ever had the manliness of character to not act like a third-rate mafia, for they have never been anything but wimps screwing folks when they thought they could get away with it easily, and like Brett in Pulp Fiction, always thinking their class status as a Prog would let them talk their way out of it if caught. Well, some of them have been finally caught clearly violating the standards in a way no one will defend, and it is time for hell to be paid, so that the Progs understand what is going to happen if they kerp it up.

Posted by: T. at May 18, 2013 12:18 PM (vxm37)

208 How about eliminating voting rights for federal employees?

We've got a cycle of self-interest within our own bureaucracy that made sure IRS agents were all too happy to put the tamp-down on people who advocate smaller government (and threaten their gravy-train).

Posted by: zsasz at May 18, 2013 12:19 PM (MMC8r)

209 LIB first CitW next the only question is how long do I have to stay there. (Cabin in the Woods)

Posted by: McGregor at May 18, 2013 12:19 PM (qo244)

210 Republicanswill focus on getting more Hispanics to join gyms.Bigger muscles = more conservative. Elementary!

Posted by: Rinse Prebeeious at May 18, 2013 12:20 PM (Cjcon)

211 193 "The air traffic controllers were in a union as well."

ATC union - approx. 26,500.

IRS union - approx 150,000.

Moot point, though. They'll never fire them.

Posted by: Marge at May 18, 2013 12:21 PM (RbHYC)

212
Once again, tell me what is wrong with enforcing EXISTING immigration law? Haven't figured that one out yet.

Do you remember burning up the phone lines the last time amnesty was brought up? Looks like round 2 is on us.

I think we can achieve the same results this go-round. So y'all know what to do.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 18, 2013 12:21 PM (SAMxH)

213
"If the illegals are such a boon to economic growth, why doesn't Mexico want them?"
It's called "cash remittances" and they comprise a large protion of the Mexican economy, ranking just behind resources gained from petrol. In essence they run their government on your cash sent by, (mostly illegal), mexican nationals living in the U.S. Good work if you can get it.

Posted by: Gulermo at May 18, 2013 12:22 PM (LaLuv)

214 How about eliminating voting rights for federal employees?

We've already got that. It's called "oops, these military votes arrived too late".

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 12:23 PM (FcR7P)

215
We've already got that. It's called "oops, these military votes arrived too late".
FTW

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at May 18, 2013 12:25 PM (7nrMd)

216 In essence they run their government on your cash sent by, (mostly illegal), mexican nationals living in the U.S.

Which I think is one factor that keeps our government from closing the border --collapsing Mexico.

Posted by: zsasz at May 18, 2013 12:25 PM (MMC8r)

217
"Chicano"is a dumbass term often used by those that really, really want to highlight they're of Mexican descent, thinkthe MECHA type losers that always go on about brown pride. Latino and Hispanic supposedlydescribesthe broader Spanish speaking peoples of not only Mexico but of central and south America. Fuck all that. As one descended of FORMER Mexicans, 3 gens ago, I prefer to be called American.

Posted by: fastfreefall at May 18, 2013 12:25 PM (S/Joz)

218 @Posted by: Marco Rubio at May 18, 2013 11:09 AM (JQuNB)


Cocksucker Quisling from Florida!

Posted by: Sen.Ted Cruz at May 18, 2013 12:26 PM (iWWOU)

219
Which I think is one factor that keeps our government from closing the border --collapsing Mexico.

Hmm, then we could buy the whole country, cheap.

Seriously guys, it's too bad there's so much corruption down there. Otherwise, IMO, they'd have a decent economy.

Of course, that same statement can now be said of us, too.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 18, 2013 12:29 PM (+z4pE)

220
211 193 "The air traffic controllers were in a union as well." ATC union - approx. 26,500. IRS union - approx 150,000. Moot point, though. They'll never fire them.
Posted by: Marge at May 18, 2013 12:21 PM (RbHYC)


They'll also never strike becausetheir direct bosses aren't affected by giving them more money. They just fuck us over.

Posted by: buzzion at May 18, 2013 12:32 PM (LI48c)

221 Hispanics are super family oriented and generally anti abortion, usually church going, often Catholic, some Assembly of God, wealthy ones sometimes Methodist or other Protestant. Of course, I'm talking legal, aready in this country, been in this country at least two generations maybe longer, Hispanics.

I don't like that word, 'Hispanics.' Latin Americans? No. Very tan people? No. Some Caribbean islanders are black. Some Mexicans are black. Some Mexicans and a lot of South Americans are very white.

Spanish speakers? No. Brazilians speak Portuguese.

Anyway, the majority of recent arrivals from those countries around this hemisphere that come here (except for Canada I guess) are the perfect example of low info voters. And knee jerk, I'm-with-these-guys-because-they -work-to-help-the-poor-people voters.

Maybe a Spanish speaking Rush Limbaugh would do the trick.

Posted by: Sphynx at May 18, 2013 12:34 PM (OZmbA)

222 217

Tejano = Texan

nuff said

Posted by: Sen.Ted Cruz at May 18, 2013 12:34 PM (iWWOU)

223 Posted by: Mama AJ at May 18, 2013 11:30 AM (SUKHu

I don't doubt that there are conservative Hispanics. I just don't see any evidence that they are even a sizable minority.

I can show you a bunch of individual black conservatives. What's that tell us about blacks as a whole politically?

When a group tends to vote 70%+ for Democrats and in a survey after survey say they want more government (by huge margins), I tend to think that on overwhelming balance as a group they a liberals.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 18, 2013 12:34 PM (1dCTA)

224
"Which I think is one factor that keeps our government from closing the border --collapsing Mexico."
And it's not just Mexico, all the countries in Central America rely on remittances, (dollars), to run their governments and that includes Venezuela.









Posted by: Gulermo at May 18, 2013 12:37 PM (LaLuv)

225 Let Mexico collapse. What is to be gained propping up such a corrupt place? But of course, our betters know better, right?

Posted by: KG at May 18, 2013 12:38 PM (IPz9m)

226 @217, fastfreefall:

The actual Chicano militant wing denotes itself by wearing brown berets.
This is the armed wing of MEChA.

In the beginning, the chicano movement was the usual radicalization thing common to that time.

There is, though, an very organized, very violent organization of chicanos, as noted above, using brown berets to denote themselves, that operate in support of, and in coordination with MEChA and La Raza.

Posted by: Grimmy at May 18, 2013 12:39 PM (uUsh9)

227 Maybe a Spanish speaking Rush Limbaugh would do the trick.

The way it used to be done was just by going to school, growing up in this country. Millions upon millions of "Rush Limbaughs", in essence. A single guy on a radio station isn't going to cut it.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 12:39 PM (FcR7P)

228 The way it used to be done was just by going to
school, growing up in this country. Millions upon millions of "Rush
Limbaughs", in essence. A single guy on a radio station isn't going to
cut it.

Posted by: t-bird at May 18, 2013 12:39 PM (FcR7P)

Which is why the education system was first on the target list of the destructionists.

Posted by: Grimmy at May 18, 2013 12:42 PM (uUsh9)

229 Yeah I once used the term "Jap" in a forum, having no clue that it was something we are not allowed to type. I thought it was an easy abbreviation. The banning told me different.
Posted by: Up With People at May 18, 2013 11:56 AM (krveP)

Don't feel bad. My best friend in (Catholic) high school had to take a summer school course at the local public H.S. and used the term "kike" one day in class. At the time, the H.S. was 99.9% jewish. She said after she said it, the entire class went silent andturned around in unisomto stare at her in shocked disbelief - even the teacher was staring with his mouth open, at a loss for words. Then, a student sitting next to her kindly asked her if she knew what "kike" meant. She said yes, it means people who are very good at managing money. The class laughed, relaxed, and the kindly student filled her in on the real meaning. Of couse she was mortified and apologized profusely. To their credit, the kids in the class didn't hold it against her. Of couse this was back in the 60's, when people could apologize for misspeaking.

Posted by: joanne at May 18, 2013 12:48 PM (Cjcon)

230 And it's not just Mexico, all the countries in Central America rely on
remittances, (dollars), to run their governments and that includes
Venezuela.



Send Charmin!

Posted by: Venezuela at May 18, 2013 12:49 PM (z9HTb)

231 One of the great mysteries of those fleeing Mexico because of lack of opportunity and rampant government corruption is why so many seem to want the creation of those problems in the US.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 18, 2013 12:50 PM (zxYv0)

232 52
Why does Rush Limbaugh allow the Ryan/Rubio amnesty ads to run on his EIB network?

That's easy: Money. He doesn't call them "Obscene Profit Breaks" for nothing.

Posted by: RoadRunner at May 18, 2013 12:56 PM (d3srn)

233 One of the great mysteries of those fleeing Mexico
because of lack of opportunity and rampant government corruption is why
so many seem to want the creation of those problems in the US.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 18, 2013 12:50 PM (zxYv0)

Not really. Much of those "fleeing" aren't fleeing at all. They're coming up here to make some cash to send home. At home, things are as they're supposed to be. The feudal mindset is very very strong in that culture.

Posted by: Grimmy at May 18, 2013 12:57 PM (uUsh9)

234 Maybe we conservatives could pass out Penis Enlargement pills..... for free. That will make more Latino conservative men anyway.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 18, 2013 12:57 PM (jucos)

235 Shouldn't there have been a fourth point in the article?

4. Profit!

Posted by: RoadRunner at May 18, 2013 12:58 PM (d3srn)

236 For those of you with ESPN2:


2013 NCAA Div I Lacrosse Quarterfinals this weekend


Cornell

vs

Ohio State


So far, Cornell appears to be the much better team.

check it out.

Posted by: Staff at May 18, 2013 12:58 PM (G9qZk)

237 Just in case the cousin of S.M.O.D misses the target...I'm plan B

Posted by: Popocatepetl Volcano at May 18, 2013 12:58 PM (iWWOU)

238
One of the great mysteries of those fleeing Mexico because of lack of opportunity and rampant government corruption is why so many seem to want the creation of those problems in the US.

Celebrate Diversity!

Oh, wait...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 18, 2013 01:03 PM (+z4pE)

239 236 For those of you with ESPN2:

Uh-oh. Moo-moo's gonna call you a Communist.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at May 18, 2013 01:10 PM (JQuNB)

240 Most immigrants come from communist and socialist shitholes. The immigrants strangely enough try to recreate it here because they are comfortable with lots of government. They didn't grow up with the concept of individual liberty and it's hard to grasp because it's sometimes messy.

Posted by: Max Entropy at May 18, 2013 01:19 PM (1zIHC)

241 "219

Which I think is one factor that keeps our government from closing the border --collapsing Mexico.

Hmm, then we could buy the whole country, cheap.

Seriously guys, it's too bad there's so much corruption down there. Otherwise, IMO, they'd have a decent economy.

Of course, that same statement can now be said of us, too.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 18, 2013 12:29 PM (+z4pE)"

That reminds me of one of the missed opportunities of the last 100 years. Back when Clinton was President the Mexican government had gotten itself into one of its periodic financial catastrophes and Clinton bailed them out. Instead of loan guarantees, I think that the US should have just paid them a bunch of cash for Baja California. Compare the value of property in San Diego and Tijuana. How much of a boost to the GDP would it be to add 2000 miles of sunny beach front property to the United States? How many new jobs would be created building vacation homes and improving infrastructure in Baja California?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at May 18, 2013 01:45 PM (31Nrp)

242 "I have lived in California and in Texas and I think that there is a
difference in the culture or type of Hispanics who live in the two
states. Maybe they come from different places in Mexico, maybe different
types of people choose to move to California to collect money and to
Texas to work. Maybe it is a difference in the way the states operate"

The difference is the amount of welfare being handed out. The hard working ones go to Texas, the leeches come to California.
.

Posted by: rayj at May 18, 2013 01:47 PM (V2EQt)

243 "One of my great frustrations with amnesty supporters who claim once we pass amnesty Hispanic-Americans will give Republicans/conservatives a chance to win their vote is they never explain how this will work."

Sure, they'll give the Republicans "a chance" to win their vote, but it will be a "snowball in hell" chance, for sure. Pay no attention to the assholes making such a pitch.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at May 18, 2013 03:19 PM (9+PGS)

244 First, make it clear that the safety net for the indigent and needy is not the source of our fiscal problems. It is the safety net for everyone else—the able-bodied, the middle class, and corporate cronies—that is driving our country to insolvency. . .

"Yeah. This will mean the GOP giving up any rhetoric about shrinking government."

WTF? We can't shrink government without shrinking the safety net for the truly needy? That's your assumption and your sales pitch? Wrong on both counts. I think the amnesty bill is shit, but this kind of thinking guarantees shrinking electoral relevance. Suburban voterswon't vote fora cost-cutting party that doesn't make clear it understands the need for a limited safety net for the truly needy. You won't reduce government without saying that. You won't win elections. You'll just win the Internet.

Posted by: CJ at May 18, 2013 03:38 PM (9G+G5)

245 Racist homophobia nativist xenophobe buttclapper.

Posted by: Barry Soetoro at May 18, 2013 04:13 PM (Q63S1)

246 I am from Puerto Rico, hence American by birth. I'd tell TONS to these people but by writing them here would be as nasty of a rant as my Rep. Mike Kelly (PA) because I don't support nor endorse nor like this kind of behavior.

Because those jerks are doing what they do, ppl think I did the same.

Take-A-Ticket and take your damn turn.

Posted by: annalissema at May 18, 2013 04:28 PM (uW+NQ)

247 The amnesty idea is terrible and reaching out to people who value big government by supporting it yourself is insane. Better to take the reverse tactic and try to educate Hispanic immigrants as to why big government is not in their interests and what smaller government could do for them. Hispanic support for big smaller government and fewer services is lower than Asian but it drops by over half between first and second generation which is faster than Asian views changed. Make it clear why law & order conservatives (as opposed to plain race baiters) are opposed to amnesty and challenge the leftist media narrative as to why and give successful, legal conservative Hispanics as many opportunity to explain why fiscal conservatism works for everyone as you can.

Posted by: Snake Oil Baron at May 18, 2013 05:22 PM (yBipF)

248 Basically be the Democrat Party, but talk about God and family from time to time.

I will say though that the GOP should stress how conservative governance helps lift people out of poverty instead of only talking about cutting programs.

Posted by: Jeepers at May 18, 2013 05:37 PM (XDRsa)

249 "My friends....."

Posted by: Failed 2008 Presidential Candidate and general all-around loser, the Honorable Sen. John McCain at May 18, 2013 06:04 PM (r6wtL)

250 The only chance we have in stopping this is to ratchet up the public outcry. That's the only way to even have a snowball's chance. It was hard enough in 2006/2007, but we've got more traitors in the ranks this time. Call, email and fax until your fingers bleed.

Posted by: TxAnn56 at May 18, 2013 06:12 PM (heeg/)

251 Why the GOP has never bothered to significantly court Asian-Americans I'll never know.

Posted by: ILoveHugeAsses at May 18, 2013 06:41 PM (JA4As)

252 5 But it doesn't matter. The word out last week was that the House has now sold us out on amnesty. The Republican Party will be gone in a short time.
-
It needs to be gone.

Reaching back to that earlier Drew M. piece:

"2. Have the demographics of the country changed so much that, at least in Presidential elections, the Republican coalition simply doomed as presently constructed?"

Yes. Definitely if you include the political leadership as part of the coalition, which it is.

The base is white. It's 90% white. The leadership is actively trying to reduce whites as a share of the population, and it supports anti-white policies like Affirmative Action. Amnesty is part of reducing whites as a share of the electorate.

This is not a viable coalition.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at May 18, 2013 07:18 PM (DF1T9)

253 251 Why the GOP has never bothered to significantly court Asian-Americans I'll never know.
-
A bigger question is why the GOP has not favored the interests of whites and maintained them as a share of the population and the electorate.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at May 18, 2013 07:20 PM (DF1T9)

254 I am so sick of hearing the Repub establishment bullshit about Hispanics being natural conservatives but we just have to give amnesty hey dumbshits I have two words for you GAY MARRIAGE! The vast majority of African Americans are against it but they still vote liberal you dumb asses AND THE SAME WILL BE TRUE FOR HISPANICS WHETHER YOU GIVE THEM AMNESTY OR NOT! God what a bunch of stupid lying fools.

Posted by: Oldcrow at May 18, 2013 07:56 PM (5rZQj)

255 39 They better be able to get all 30 million of the foreigners they are going to import to vote for them because they will no longer have a base.
-
That's the plan. They don't like the (white) voters they have. They are importing a new base.

And they are winning to change their policies to get that new base.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at May 18, 2013 09:21 PM (DF1T9)

256 Education reform: fine and dandy, but can anyone define a program that can overcome a complete lack of interest--if not outright hostility--on the part of parent(s)? I'm not fan of overpaid teachers and their unions, but the best teachers can only achieve so much if the parent(s) don't push the kid.

A NYC classroom full of Korean and Chinese immigrant/1st generation American kids has every tyke swinging for the (educational) fences every day. Because their parents allow for no alternative to doing well in school. Hispanic immigrants tend to be poorer than Asians, so after school enrichment programs will be less available. Hispanic immigrants tend to be less literate (even in their own language) than typical Asian middle class immigrants, so less help available at home. But if "inner city" (love that euphemism) poor parents gave a crap, in large numbers, their kids educations would massively improve with the same crap teachers in the same crap buildings. Not one additional cent would need to be spent.

I would posit the idea that charter schools produce better educated students because charter school parents--by definition--are more involved in their kids education. Given the identical socio-economic profile between a charter school and a public school, the charter school kids tends to do better because the parents have self-selected into the higher achieving group.

I seriously hate having to defend public school teachers. Many are drones, most are at least marginally competent to teach young 'uns, and some are quite excellent. But they aren't the main problem in low acheiving schools.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at May 18, 2013 10:41 PM (ymovd)






Processing 0.04, elapsed 0.0435 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0112 seconds, 265 records returned.
Page size 154 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.

MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat