Security through obscurity -- OS/2: "I'm not dead yet" [Purp]

OS/2 refuses to die even though IBM abandoned it many years ago.

The code base is being maintained, and expanded, new stuff added all the time apparently. The good thing about orphan products like this? Nobody bothers putting in the effort to develop attacks for them. There's a lot more Window, Mac, Linux, Android, etc targets.

Откройте нить!

فتح الموضوع!

פתח את החוט!

Ouvrez le fil!

打開的線程!
Open the thread. multilingual version.


Posted by: Open Blogger at 11:21 AM



Comments

1 First. Maybe. Uno.

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 11:24 AM (sqp6o)

2 Commenter Prime

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 23, 2013 11:24 AM (8sCoq)

3 dammit

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 23, 2013 11:24 AM (8sCoq)

4 Обама сосет шары

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 11:25 AM (sqp6o)

5 Where's the sanscrit .5 font? H/A has it all the time.

Posted by: Journolist at February 23, 2013 11:29 AM (MYBiY)

6 Stay tuned. I have a great think piece I am thinking about posting.

Posted by: Journolist at February 23, 2013 11:29 AM (MYBiY)

7 "he has conquered the topic"?
ÇáãæÖæÚ ÇáãÝÊæÍ,surely.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 23, 2013 11:30 AM (QTHTd)

8 الموضوع المفتوح
(trying Firefox)

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 23, 2013 11:31 AM (QTHTd)

9 "The good thing about orphan products like this? Nobody bothers putting in the effort to develop attacks for them."

True, but:

1) If an OS tries to be compatible with other OS's and run many of the same programs, then it will likely be vulnerable to some of the same vulnerabilities.

2) An obscure OS is less likely to have its vulnerabilities discovered and thus patched. (Sort of the same idea as if you keep your kids away from all other kids, they won't be sick as often, but neither will their immune system become more robust.)

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at February 23, 2013 11:32 AM (m2IdD)

Posted by: chemjeff hates snow at February 23, 2013 11:33 AM (BBWjt)

11 why can't I do italics?

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 11:33 AM (CypDC)

12 OS2 never really caught on.

Posted by: Vic at February 23, 2013 11:34 AM (53z96)

13 Code singes ne jamais laisser quoi que ce meurent, vous les gars sérieux.

Posted by: Fritz at February 23, 2013 11:34 AM (WM+rJ)

14 Skynet is hiding in OS/2.

Posted by: eman at February 23, 2013 11:34 AM (jtGVg)

15 wow I didn't realize OS/2 was still out there

what are the advantages of OS/2 over, say, Ubuntu Linux?

Posted by: chemjeff hates snow at February 23, 2013 11:34 AM (BBWjt)

16
OS/2 was a true multitasking OS, vastly superior to Windows 3.1, which had no process protection. OS/2 had a Windows 3.1 compatibility mode that was more stable and reliable.
What killed OS/2 was IBM’s total indifference to developers and marketers. I wanted to write a device driver for OS/2, but IBM wanted something like $10,000 for the Device Driver Kit (DDK) and another $5K or so for the compiler.
In contrast, Microsoft gave away their Device Driver Kit (DDK) for free with a compiler thrown in. And they gave great marketing support including a hardware compatibility program that granted hardware vendors the right to use the Windows logo and artwork in ad copy to sell Windows compatible hardware.
So all the hardware vendors (including mine) turned their backs on OS/2 and embraced Windows. This despite the fact that by any technical measure OS/2 was the superior platform by far. OS/2 had a 100% compatible Win 3.1 subsystem (IBM cross-licensed their source code with Microsoft). So a device driver written for OS/2 would also support Win 3.1 apps.
If IBM’s management weren’t such idiots we would be running OS/8 today instead of Windows 8.


Posted by: Huusker at February 23, 2013 11:35 AM (PaKLC)

17 How do you say code in French?

Posted by: Journolist at February 23, 2013 11:35 AM (MYBiY)

18

001110001111001000110001111001010111000

Posted by: snowybeach at February 23, 2013 11:36 AM (LpQbZ)

19 >>>How do you say code in French?

Dunno. Google spit that one back at me.

Posted by: Fritz at February 23, 2013 11:37 AM (WM+rJ)

20

ot

man-u scores again!

Posted by: snowybeach at February 23, 2013 11:37 AM (LpQbZ)

21 OS2 died because IBM wanted to code it such that it could only be run on IBM PCs. They wanted to lock people in to their stuff. This resulted in the breakup of the collaboration between Microsoft and IBM.


Microsoft went on to push Windows 3.1 which essentially took over everything. That was also about the time I finally pulled the plug on DOS.

Posted by: Vic at February 23, 2013 11:38 AM (53z96)

22 Anyway, this morning I went to the best gaming news / exposé site on the 'web, which is Gamespy, famed for their beatdown of WarZ's crooked developer. I found out that Gamespy has just shut down. The parent company of IGN bought Gamespy early this month and fired everyone two days ago.

Hoo boy doesn't that just suck.

Also, I know I'm late to the "Aliens: Colonial Marines" mess, but it's panning out that they totally lied to everyone in the demo. Also, it's being alleged that the developers at Gearbox took money from Sega and spent it on Borderlands 2: http://tinyurl.com/adcv898

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 23, 2013 11:39 AM (QTHTd)

23 OS2 won't run on my Commodore 64.

Pity.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 23, 2013 11:39 AM (RwPqC)

24 How do you say code in French?

I can just imagine French coders. All jacked up on "Mont Dieu" working 30 hours a week.

Posted by: t-bird at February 23, 2013 11:40 AM (FcR7P)

25 Vic, I saw your comment about the nuke plants at the last thread.

Can you believe how shameless they are?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 23, 2013 11:40 AM (piMMO)

26 17 How do you say code in French?

Posted by: Journolist at February 23, 2013 11:35 AM (MYBiY)


Code

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 11:41 AM (sqp6o)

27 Can you believe how shameless they are?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 23, 2013 11:40 AM (piMMO)

I am wondering if they are talking about government bomb plants like Savannah River and Hanford.

Posted by: Vic at February 23, 2013 11:41 AM (53z96)

28 @16

By any measure, the most advanced hardware/software systems was the commodore Amiga.

I had a multitasking operating system.

It had a superior graphics and sound capabilities.

It's video output was NTSC compliant.

It's main problem was the company was run worse than Mitt Romeny's presidential campaign!

Posted by: General Woundwort at February 23, 2013 11:42 AM (zOP5o)

29
Greetings, code monkeys.

Are we still screwed? Why yes, yes we are!

SNAFU.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 23, 2013 11:43 AM (+z4pE)

30 IBM just did not get it.

Bill Gates did.

Posted by: eman at February 23, 2013 11:43 AM (sa3Fs)

31 I am wondering if they are talking about government bomb plants like Savannah River and Hanford.

***

No matter where they are talking about, WHY THE HELL would those be the cuts one would make?

It's emotional blackmail of the worst kind.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 23, 2013 11:43 AM (piMMO)

32 I know nuthin bout puter stuff so Ill share this instead. Fathers should share it with daughters.

"To all the girls who are in a hurry to have a boyfriend or get married, a piece of Biblical advice: "Ruth patiently waited for her mate Boaz," While you are waiting on your BOAZ, don't settle for any of his realitives; Broke-az, Po-az, Lyin-az, Dumb-az, Drunk-az, Cheap-az, Lazy-az, Lockedup-az, Goodfornothin-az and especially his third cousin, Beatinyo-az. Wait for your Boaz and make sure he respects Yoaz."


Posted by: Oldsailors Poet is no longer shamelessly hawking his book Amy Lynn available on amazon. at February 23, 2013 11:43 AM (l86i3)

33 Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 23, 2013 11:39 AM (QTHTd)


What's the 'Colonial Marines' mess? Besides looking like it has graphics from ten years ago?

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 11:43 AM (sqp6o)

34 CP/M, baby. Secure as Fort Knox. Nobody breaks into me.

Posted by: The Altair 8800 at February 23, 2013 11:45 AM (Lxw+T)

35 Lol OSP.

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 11:45 AM (sqp6o)

36 italics

Posted by: alex at February 23, 2013 11:47 AM (Q755k)

37 I still run OS/2 (Ecomstation 2.1) at home and at work. It's still got the best DOS and 16 bit Win support around and there has never been, to my knowledge, an OS/2 virus. That's even from the days when it was a competitive OS. It's unbelievably stable. I'll reboot every few months whether I need to or not.

What's keeping it alive now is a combination of a small group of enthusiasts plus the strength/growth of Linux. A bunch of smart guys have streamlined the porting of Linux programs to OS/2 and this includes device drivers! I always used OS/2 as a file server at home because it played nicer with outsiders than did Win32. However, when the old IBM peer networking started to struggle with newer versions of Win and Linux, I just installed a ported version of Samba. Presto! Now with things like Lucide (a pdf reader), Firefox, Thunderbird plus OpenOffice, you can still do plenty with OS/2. The only thing where it always lags deals with multimedia. Sigh.

But the Workplace Shell is still the best desktop around (it's ~1995 technology!) and it blows away the horrid mess that is Win 8 (Metro, aaarrrrggghhhh!!!)

Posted by: MichiCanuck at February 23, 2013 11:48 AM (UMX2T)

38 Regarding the cuts:

Our local news introduced Ray LaHood and the air traffic controllers threat with the phrase, "The latest in a series of scare tactics regarding the budget is the threat that air travel will be disrupted.."

So apparently someone locally is fed up with this.

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 23, 2013 11:48 AM (GoIUi)

39 LOL, my first computer was a Kaypro running CP/M. That rapidly became obsolete.

Posted by: Vic at February 23, 2013 11:48 AM (53z96)

40 11 why can't I do italics?
Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 11:33 AM (CypDC)

Dunno. you can type in [ i ] [ /i ] without the spaces, or, if you use chrome, use the Moron Toolkit browser extension: http://preview.tinyurl.com/moron-toolkit-google

Link takes you to the Google Web Store.

Posted by: alex at February 23, 2013 11:49 AM (Q755k)

41 Regarding the cuts:

Our local news introduced Ray LaHood and the air traffic controllers threat with the phrase, "The latest in a series of scare tactics regarding the budget is the threat that air travel will be disrupted.."

So apparently someone locally is fed up with this.

***

Even the ABC article seems to hint that it's a bunch of apocalyptic crap.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 23, 2013 11:50 AM (piMMO)

42 Just pulled up to " Day of Resistance" rally in West Chester, OH

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 11:50 AM (448H4)

43 @30

That's because Bill Gates is the one who actually helped IBM develop OS/2 initially.

It was his decision to write OS/2 in machine language that ultimately doomed OS2 as it was infinitely more difficult to adapt it to new chip sets.

He used OS2 as the testing grounds for what would become Win 3.0


Posted by: General Woundwort at February 23, 2013 11:50 AM (zOP5o)

44 To summarise the "Colonial Marines mess":

it took six years to develop, and was outsourced to multiple companies. Gearbox was one; TimeGate was another.

Gearbox and TimeGate bickered and argued over how to develop the game.

In the meantime a demo came out with good graphics and (it seems) a better script; but this demo was likely for gameplay that got scrapped. Also some of the devs had told the press that the game was going to be TEH AWESOME which it is not.

It's been running between 4 and 5.5 / 10 ratings in the sites I've looked at. The game is almost as good as Gearbox's other recent turd "Duke Nukem Forever".

Testers have been leaking reports to Reddit etc that they knew the game was going to suck all along, but couldn't do anything about it. Gearbox and TimeGate have been blaming each other through the press.

And if Gearbox did take money for this game, and spent it on their own game, then my understanding of the law is that this practice is somewhat frowned upon.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 23, 2013 11:51 AM (QTHTd)

45

By any measure, the most advanced hardware/software systems was the commodore Amiga.

I loved Comode-odor! I started with a VIC-20, then a C-64, then another C-64...after I accidentally fried my first one while performing a little under the hood 'surgery'. Then a C-128, (which was an amazing computer). Then an Amiga 500. And then another one. Then an Amiga 3000 right at about the time C= went under. I still have my Amiga's.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 23, 2013 11:51 AM (eyJh9)

46 Don't forget me! I'm not dead yet!

Posted by: VMS at February 23, 2013 11:52 AM (BBWjt)

47 17 How do you say code in French?

Jean a une longue moustache.

Posted by: rickl at February 23, 2013 11:52 AM (sdi6R)

48
Just pulled up to " Day of Resistance" rally in West Chester, OH

I hope those go well, with large turnouts. Of course, they'll probably be ignored by the media or slimed if they are covered.

Dim pols should be alarmed at firearms sales figures, but they're not too bright to begin with.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 23, 2013 11:53 AM (+z4pE)

49
O/T but sweet fucking fancy Moses, I have to pass this on for those who've never seen it (I don't recall it being linked here....h/t to smalldeadanimals blog).

I'm sure everyone remembers George 'I don't debate Israelis' Galloway from one of the Morning News Dumps this week.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/csd4b7r (yootube)

Yeah....uh, holy fuck.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 23, 2013 11:55 AM (0WLla)

50 OS2 died because IBM wanted to code it such that it could only be run on
IBM PCs. They wanted to lock people in to their stuff. This resulted in
the breakup of the collaboration between Microsoft and IBM.


That's not an accurate characterization. The JDA had Microsoft targeting the OEM market, and IBM targeting the IBM hardware market (which at the time was the microchannel PS/2 machines).

The "split" happened in the OS/2 2.0 timeframe. By that time, IBM had setup a OEM hardware test lab in Boca Raton that had about 300 OEM machines, and scads more OEM adapter cards for testing.

There was friction because MS didn't want to do OS/2 1.3 (the last of the 16 bit versions) and wanted to focus all efforts on OS/2 2.0. IBM felt its customer base wanted another 16 bit version in the interim because OS/2 1.2 was growing long in the tooth and performed poorly due to its memory requirements on the machines of the day.

As a result, OS/2 1.3 was an IBM only effort and a small team (of about 10) was peeled off to do the development work. The code was speeded up, memory reduced, and some rather novel tricks put into the segment swapping machinery (ex "grouped" swapout of small segments to reduce disk I/O)

MS wasn't happy with the OS/2 Workplace shell either. They felt the market could have been hit a year earlier has 2.0 shipped with the 1.3 shell (and they were right). Workplace hell was unstable and rife with bugs, but Lee Reiswig, the IBM VP overseeing all this was smitten and dug in his heels.

It wasn't the clone hardware thing, IBM and MS cooperated all along on making that stuff work

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 11:56 AM (/gHaE)

51 Cherchez le fromage.

Posted by: HeatherRadish� drinking beer at February 23, 2013 11:57 AM (hO8IJ)

52
load *.*,8,1
comm 64
my first 'pc' game - Red Storm Rising

Posted by: Red Shirt at February 23, 2013 11:57 AM (FIDMq)

53 'Sperging over OSs? A few choice words for you:

Raspberry Pi kit, from $60 and up
www.riscosopen.org

POW!

Posted by: Filthy Scandi Snowbilly at February 23, 2013 11:57 AM (XhMkP)

54 I'm not dead yet guys!

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at February 23, 2013 11:58 AM (Qxdfp)

55 @45

I had an Amiga 2000 with a flicker fixer that let me go to 1280x400 resolution!!!

Freaking PC's and Macs were driving their displays at 640x400 with 16 colors!!!

Amiga in HAM mode could pump out visually stunning images with 4095 colors.

Again the only thing that held the Amiga back were the idiots running the company!

Posted by: General Woundwort at February 23, 2013 11:58 AM (zOP5o)

56 Early you guys.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at February 23, 2013 11:59 AM (Qxdfp)

57 Amiga had awesome video hardware. The rest of the machine was lackluster though.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:00 PM (/gHaE)

58 A few hundred here. No media

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:00 PM (448H4)

59
Yeah....uh, holy fuck.

Yuck. I feel the need to shower after watching that disgusting display of, um, whatever the hell that was.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 23, 2013 12:00 PM (+z4pE)

60 There are black ppl here and everything

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:01 PM (448H4)

61 OS/2 ... it's half an operating system.
_

That was a fun time to sell computers - MS-DOS, OS/2, Miscellaneous ... big ass NEC Multisync GS monitors with cards for engineers and page layout guys, math coprocessors

... good times ... good times.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 23, 2013 12:02 PM (J8DGo)

62 Huusker #16:

Apparently IBM forgot all they learned back in the typewriter days. I have a background as a CE with the Office products so I am familiar with how they dominated the market.

They made sure that they provided school systems with machines at or below cost to get a generation of typists familiar with their product. Then, in a stroke of genius, they moved the tab/backspace locations on the keyboard from the convention of the day to make sure that IBM trained typists were uncomfortable with rival products.

It was a strategy that could have been used to market the OS/2 system as well.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at February 23, 2013 12:03 PM (Pb5sS)

63 OSP- That's great. I just sent that to my three siblings who all have multiple daughters.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 23, 2013 12:04 PM (4Mv1T)

64 I will crawl back into my dinosaurs' lair again.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at February 23, 2013 12:04 PM (Pb5sS)

65 Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 23, 2013 11:51 AM (QTHTd)

Thanks. Didn't know they were handling the Duke Nukem cluster-f as well.


Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 12:04 PM (sqp6o)

66 Dit is een taal Ek is seker dat dit lees sal weet.
Daar is baie van die e's in dit.

Posted by: east of nowhere at February 23, 2013 12:04 PM (su7x1)

67 The French term for code is "le code" or "ze code".

BTW, speaking of old things that just never quite go away, war in Asia between China and Japan may be back soon.

Fun!

Posted by: eman at February 23, 2013 12:04 PM (sa3Fs)

68
There are black ppl here and everything

Shirley you jest. As everyone knows, the bitter clingers are all RAYCISSS!!!11! inbred knuckle-draggers who have been programmed by the evil Koch machines!

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 23, 2013 12:05 PM (+z4pE)

69 I always felt that the only reason IBM was able to sell their overpriced junk was because large businesses wanted IBM because that was what they were used to.

Posted by: Vic at February 23, 2013 12:05 PM (53z96)

70 0s/2 was AWESOME.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at February 23, 2013 12:05 PM (3xhH0)

71 #58 Albie Damned, thanks for the report!

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 23, 2013 12:06 PM (GoIUi)

72 59
I wasn't able to click away from that fast enough. The first image is seared--seared--in my memory.

Posted by: rickl at February 23, 2013 12:07 PM (sdi6R)

73 We used to run VMS on a DEC Alpha at work. It over heated easier than any server we had, so would be the first to set off the alarms.

Posted by: notsothoreau at February 23, 2013 12:07 PM (Lqy/e)

74 Wang wordprocessors are coming back, baby!

Posted by: eman at February 23, 2013 12:09 PM (sa3Fs)

75 "Just pulled up to " Day of Resistance" rally in West Chester, OH"



Resisting they much?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 23, 2013 12:09 PM (yCvxi)

76 TW, speaking of old things that just never quite go away, war in Asia between China and Japan may be back soon.

Fun!

Posted by: eman


Other than a temporary control of some drilling sites, I'm not sure what China would gain out of going to war with Japan.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 23, 2013 12:09 PM (Ipj15)

77 Don't call it a comeback.

Posted by: QYX Typewriters at February 23, 2013 12:10 PM (J8DGo)

78 @57

The first Amiga and the PS/2 were introduced at around the same time, 1987.

The Amiga had superior processing speed, graphics and sound capabilities and more importantly a multitasking operating windowing operating system before any of the big boys had.

What they did not have was IBM's marketing department.

Posted by: General Woundwort at February 23, 2013 12:11 PM (zOP5o)

79 The big problem was OS/2 didn't get any good, in a mass market supportability sense, until Warp 3. That ceded a couple of years of free running to Windows 3.1 and by then it was all over.

That was a major bone of internal contention in Boca at the time. The Lee Reiswig faction thought Workplace shell was the key to OS/2 making it and that blinded them to the realities of market timing and installed base inertia that Win31 was going to develop if OS/2 2.0 were delayed.

I was in the "ship 2.0 with the simple 1.3 shell and hit the market first" camp along with Microsoft.

If Reiswig hadn't been so fucking stubborn, Windows95/98/ME would never have happened and MS would have thrown their efforts behind OS/2.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:11 PM (/gHaE)

80 Still got a copy of Warp 3.0 around. Major issue was software and hardware drivers--not the operating system.

Internal fights at IBM did not help as the hardware people wanted the software to be locked into IBM hardware while the software people were divided into legacy big iron versus the relatively small PC division. Thus, IBM kept buying software companies such as Lotus, etc. for their code and then IBM corporate culture promptly strangled it. Via Voice was far superior to Dragon Dictate originally but IBM quit supporting it. Same with Symphony, etc.

Last but not least, IBM was prevented from playing as rough a game as Microsoft due to the Anti trust consent decree that gave birth to Microsoft in the first place.

BTW--Bill Gates was a good businessman but not so hot as a technology person. Best ideas including DOS--Windows, etc. came from others. His company just did better at selling it thanks ironically to IBM.


Posted by: wg at February 23, 2013 12:11 PM (AKk7H)

81 I'm on a Craigslist / Garage sale quasi-mission to find a nice daisy wheel printer ... with some font wheels and ribbons that are still available.

I have plenty of parallel cables, USB to Parallel, serial if needed.

Nothing says "Quality" like actual impact produced typeface.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 23, 2013 12:12 PM (J8DGo)

82 OS/2 - On the planet I come from this means Oral Squiding with 2 sisters. It's obviously not the same with you earthings.

Posted by: squid alien who rode in a on Russian SMOD at February 23, 2013 12:12 PM (KgD0C)

83 Other than a temporary control of some drilling sites, I'm not sure what China would gain out of going to war with Japan.

Influence abroad and prestige at home. A victory over a long hated enemy would give the Chinese leadership a lot of political capital, allow them to crack down heavily on dissident elements, and would put the rest of the East Asian and Southeast Asian nations that China is no longer content to let the US be the dominant power in the region.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 23, 2013 12:13 PM (PQgoW)

84 "The French term for code is "le code" or "ze code"."


Dude, you obviously can't differentiate between French and German. You can't sneak that shit by the crack AoSHQ linguistic team and expect to get away with it.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 23, 2013 12:13 PM (yCvxi)

85
I wasn't able to click away from that fast enough. The first image is seared--seared--in my memory.

It gets worse. I'm Serious You Guys. Dude is Fucked. Up.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 23, 2013 12:13 PM (0WLla)

86 Seems like the thread to ask this- setting up Outlook on a home PC. When setting up email can i do a custom address like 'RWC@home.com or does it have to tie in with an already established email such as RWC@aol.com/RWC@gmail.com?

Outlook 2013
Verizon FIOS.

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 12:14 PM (sqp6o)

87 What they did not have was IBM's marketing department.

They omitted the 68k's MMU too. That was a crippling move.

And the Model M keyboard - they didn't have that. I'm still hoarding those. There is no substitute.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:14 PM (/gHaE)

88 76,

It won't be the first war that was a fuck move.

Posted by: eman at February 23, 2013 12:14 PM (sa3Fs)

89 BTW--Bill Gates was a good businessman but not so hot as a technology person. Best ideas including DOS--Windows, etc. came from others. His company just did better at selling it thanks ironically to IBM.

That's how most of history goes. The A students get run over by B and C students who aren't so in love with the ideas that they are inflexible.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 23, 2013 12:15 PM (PQgoW)

90 my model M keyboard went tango-uniform a year ago.

... best. keyboard. ever.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 23, 2013 12:16 PM (J8DGo)

91 You can club a grizzly to death with a Model M keyboard.

The bear will be dead, but not the board.

Posted by: eman at February 23, 2013 12:20 PM (sa3Fs)

92 34 CP/M, baby. Secure as Fort Knox. Nobody breaks into me.

Posted by: The Altair 8800 at February 23, 2013 11:45 AM (Lxw+T)


I learned on CP/M 86. It was networked.
Programs worked fine on my CP/M card on the Franklin Ace 1200.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at February 23, 2013 12:21 PM (Qxe/p)

93
81 I'm on a Craigslist / Garage sale quasi-mission to find a nice daisy wheel printer ... with some font wheels and ribbons that are still available.

eBay has eight listed right now. I'm sure if you keep watch there you'll find one to suit you.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:21 PM (tOkJB)

94 Don't forget me! I'm not dead yet!


Posted by: VMS


Damn it where's employment when I need it?


Posted by: DaveA at February 23, 2013 12:21 PM (6YLIm)

95 OMG, the Frederick Douglas Republicans are *gasp* ...NEGROES!!!!

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:22 PM (448H4)

96 Over 1000 here ..: at least

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:23 PM (448H4)

97 and would put the rest of the East Asian and Southeast Asian nations that China is no longer content to let the US be the dominant power in the region.

Posted by: Colorado Alex


Or it could cause the entire region to form a tighter alliance, shutting down com and trade with China. China's economy is dependent on exports.

The US downturn 2008 was a huge problem for China, one that only massive deficit spending, more than the US spent in our 'stimuless', could ameliorate.

If China were to initiate a war and trade dropped significantly, they would have the recipe for civil war.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 23, 2013 12:23 PM (Ipj15)

98 security through obscurity, aka deny, deny, deny... /from Drudge:

http://tinyurl.com/bcuk9ub

"Vatican [Lombardi] blasts 'false' pre-conclave reporting"

Benedict too has made reference to the divisions in recent days, deploring in his final Mass as pope on Ash Wednesday how the church is often "defiled" by attacks and divisions from within. Last Sunday, he urged its members to overcome "pride and egoism."

On Saturday, in his final comments to the Curia, Benedict lamented the "evil, suffering and corruption" that have defaced God's creation. But he also thanked the Vatican bureaucrats for having helped him "bear the burden" of his ministry with their work, love and faith these past eight years.

The Vatican's attack on the media echoed its response to previous scandals, where it has tended not to address the underlying content of accusations, but has diverted attention away. During the 2010 explosion of sex abuse scandals, the Vatican accused the media of trying to attack the pope; during the 2012 leaks scandal, it accused the media of sensationalism without addressing the content of the leaked documents.

Feb. 23 '13
By Nicole Winfield (AP)


Winfield's critique applies to the political tactics of any organization or government. As Lincoln quoted "the house divided can not stand" reference from Jesus (James), division from within definitely weakens the structural integrity. A point well made was that in American (and Western Civilization) education, children are no longer being brought up respecting "The Golden Rule" which, if anything ever were multi-cultural in origination of source, the golden rule certainly does apply culturally/religiously across the globe (whether in positive or negative logos), and was the self identity that was "American" until WWII ended, when coincidentally every government scrambled to absorb as much from the Third Reich as quickly as possible, denying everything along the way. Winfield's conclusion makes the point that rather than face the record, governmental statements practice the "distraction" technique in order to never answer the question posed, and never attempt to solve the problem at hand. CYA

Not pope bashing. Just observing "the rules" as played against us, regardless of social organization, regardless of (or because of) "intent".

Posted by: panzernashorn at February 23, 2013 12:25 PM (MhA4j)

99 Any MD moron have a use for a been boxed up for a decade Amiga 3000?

Posted by: DaveA at February 23, 2013 12:26 PM (6YLIm)

100 Albie Damned, where are you?

(too lazy to go upthread)

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 12:26 PM (/1w0g)

101 Yes, indeed! OS/2 lives on as eComStation. I run eCS versions 2.0 and 2.1 in SMP and single processor status on a dual core AMD server CPU and a four core AMD retail CPU and on an IBM Thinkpad. I quite pleased with eCS and I intend to install eCS version 2.2 this Spring when it is released.

This comment was written and posted using Firefox and eCS v.2.0.

Posted by: Mike O'Malley at February 23, 2013 12:27 PM (E3kEk)

102 btw, Winfield wasn't making the golden rule point. I did.

Posted by: panzernashorn at February 23, 2013 12:28 PM (MhA4j)

103 Is it italicks yet?

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 12:29 PM (CypDC)

104 RWC...

Day of Resistance rally in West Chester OH

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:29 PM (448H4)

105 Or it could cause the entire region to form a tighter alliance, shutting down com and trade with China. China's economy is dependent on exports. The US downturn 2008 was a huge problem for China, one that only massive deficit spending, more than the US spent in our 'stimuless', could ameliorate. If China were to initiate a war and trade dropped significantly, they would have the recipe for civil war.

While that is a possibility, it's minimal as long as the Chinese can win a quick victory. Additionally, if the US stays out of any conflict, then other nations will be less likely to stand up to China, rightly viewing it as the new big boy on the block.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 23, 2013 12:29 PM (PQgoW)

106 <strike>Strikethru?</strike>
Ok, I'm done playing.

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 12:31 PM (CypDC)

107 28
@16

By any measure, the most advanced hardware/software systems was the commodore Amiga.

I had a multitasking operating system.

It had a superior graphics and sound capabilities.

It's video output was NTSC compliant.

It's main problem was the company was run worse than Mitt Romeny's presidential campaign!


Posted by: General Woundwort at February 23, 2013 11:42 AM (zOP5o)

I remember! I had an Amiga 2000. Remember all the motherboard components had names like Rock Lobster etc.

Of course, RAM was $400 a MB back then, so that sucked.

Posted by: t9 at February 23, 2013 12:31 PM (x3YFz)

108
There are 273 Model M keyboards listed on eBay. I'm sure some aren't real and others are broken but some of them are probably good. There's also an interesting Wiki article about the Model M keyboard.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:31 PM (tOkJB)

109 All your flying squid are belong to us.

Posted by: Red Spine at February 23, 2013 12:32 PM (WM+rJ)

110 I really love Netflix some times.

"Based on your interest in Naked Nuns With Big Guns, and Tucker and Dale vs. Evil, Netflix recommends, One For The Money, starring Katherine Heigl."

Seriously?

Posted by: Colorado Alex at February 23, 2013 12:33 PM (PQgoW)

111 I got about 15 Model M's cached for future use. The Palm Beach county run surplus store was selling them for $2 when they started phasing out all the PS/2 machines years ago. I bought every one I could lay my hands on whenever they appeared.

I have no idea why they didn't just keep them and use'em with the new Dell/Gateway junk they were buying and throw those crap keyboards away.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:33 PM (/gHaE)

112
Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 12:31 PM (CypDC)

Substitute [ for and you're there.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:33 PM (tOkJB)

113
for >

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:33 PM (tOkJB)

114
and ] for >

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:34 PM (tOkJB)

115 104 RWC...

Day of Resistance rally in West Chester OH

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:29 PM (448H4)


Nice. Well, if you get one news.org to cover it you will have beaten the coverage given To 'Holding the Line' in Annapolis.

Posted by: RWC at February 23, 2013 12:36 PM (/1w0g)

116
A point well made was that in American (and Western Civilization) education, children are no longer being brought up respecting "The Golden Rule" which, if anything ever were multi-cultural in origination of source, ...

That's a good point. IMO, we're being ruled by adolescents who never matured out of their rebellious phase. As a result, we're seeing a willful destruction of the idea of Respect, which is a natural result of the Golden Rule. Like most teenagers, they are convinced that they're right despite an abundance of evidence to the contrary.

If they had a mature awareness of their actions upon others, they would be ashamed, if such a thing as shame still existed, that is.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 23, 2013 12:37 PM (+z4pE)

117 Hey you guys!

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 23, 2013 12:37 PM (jucos)

118 Microsoft was scared shitless by OS/2. They had teams of people who would go around pretending to be OS/2 users who were having trouble with OS/2. "I like it but...it ate my baby."

The Barkto incident is probably the most famous, as that went up to the ugly chair-throwing dick who runs the place now.

http://lists.essential.org/1998/am-info/msg01529.html

But after MS had managed to kill it, there were some interviews of the astroturfers (who were quite proud of themselves).

The media did its part, of course. MS could do no wrong, or rather, they could, but "warts and all" you wanted to stick with MS-DOS and MS-Windows. Coverage of competition was relegated to shootouts that MS always won ("warts and all") for vague reasons, after losing in almost every technical or usability aspect.

Any of this sounding familiar?

Posted by: moviegique at February 23, 2013 12:38 PM (wir87)

119 Heh -- A rare Model M on ebay for the PC/XT

http://tinyurl.com/ajs9fuc

The lack of LED's is the tipoff that its for the XT. You'd need a late model XT for the BIOS to work OK with it though, early BIOS didn't have the 101 support.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:38 PM (/gHaE)

120 [strike]Strikethru?[/strike]

114 This is like the olden days. Thanks.

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 12:38 PM (CypDC)

121 sunofabitch

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 12:39 PM (CypDC)

122
I have no idea why they didn't just keep them and use'em with the new Dell/Gateway junk they were buying and throw those crap keyboards away.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:33 PM (/gHaE)


Ahem. Does *county run* give you a clue? My first computer (1994?) came with a keyboard with little foil contacts. After a week it was typing all sorts of Chinese looking characters all by itself.

I knew a guy who would clean out Model M keyboards at the car wash. He just made sure they sat around for a while in a dry room before using them.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:39 PM (tOkJB)

123 Cherchez le fromage.


Suivez l'odeur

Posted by: Jacques Clouseau at February 23, 2013 12:39 PM (8ZskC)

124 "37
I still run OS/2 (Ecomstation 2.1) at home and at work...
But the
Workplace Shell is still the best desktop around (it's ~1995
technology!) and it blows away the horrid mess that is Win 8 (Metro,
aaarrrrggghhhh!!!)


Posted by: MichiCanuck at February 23, 2013 11:48 AM (UMX2T)"

I agree, that's one of the reasons I stay with eCS-OS/2. Whether its Mac, Windows or Linux, none in my experience has a shell that matches the versatility and beauty of the Workplace Shell. Its too bad the code for Workplace Shell can't be open sourced and ported to Linux.

Posted by: Mike O'Malley at February 23, 2013 12:40 PM (E3kEk)

125
Use s instead of strike.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:40 PM (tOkJB)

126 Cherchez le fromage.


Suivez l'odeur
Posted by: Jacques Clouseau at February 23, 2013 12:39 PM (8ZskC)
-----------------------------------------------------------







Posted by: Marcel Marceau at February 23, 2013 12:40 PM (jucos)

127 How do you say code in French?

La Code

Posted by: Maurice Ravel at February 23, 2013 12:40 PM (irFb8)

128
Use s instead of strike.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 12:41 PM (tOkJB)

129 Hey you guys,, there are black ppl and women here with guns

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:41 PM (448H4)

130 How do you say code in French?

La Code
Posted by: Maurice Ravel at February 23, 2013 12:40 PM (irFb
------------------------------------------------------
Le Code

Posted by: Maurice CHevalier at February 23, 2013 12:42 PM (jucos)

131 @125

I can't pronounce that "s" word properly...

everytime I try I just end up saying HHHIIIRRREEEYYYAAA!!!

See?

Posted by: MLB Home Plate Umpire at February 23, 2013 12:43 PM (0pcT0)

132 >>why can't I do italics?

First, press Alt F3 for Reveal Codes...

Posted by: Mama AJ, Assault Poiser at February 23, 2013 12:46 PM (SUKHu)

133 Hey you guys..brb

I just found my next wife.. a very hot young lady with an AR 15 slung around her

(How's my hair look?)

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 23, 2013 12:47 PM (448H4)

134 The Chinese was a bit...off, you guys.
The use of traditional characters, however, on this smart, military blog was much appreciated, Purp, over those awful, ChiCom-propagated, low-info voter-style, simplified ones.

Posted by: the rev. dr. teej, formerly 龐天明 in another life at February 23, 2013 12:47 PM (cuhkP)

135 New one

Posted by: Vic at February 23, 2013 12:48 PM (53z96)

136 >>why can't I do italics?
--------------------------------------------------------
Whatsa matta you?

Posted by: Guiseppe Zanotti at February 23, 2013 12:48 PM (jucos)

137 Will Zachman covered l'affire Barkto extensively.

The sad thing is Barkto'ish comments were to some degree accurate -- OS/2 2.0 shipped too soon and WAS prone to eating the baby.

The IBM management produced quality "models" for 2.0 predicted it would have ~300 support calls/day.

I had predicted that figure would be more like 4,000/day based on pulling number out of my ass and a lot of experience in shipping OS's. It was obviously not a popular opinion at the time in Boca...

Support calls for OS/2 2.0 peaked at 3,900/day after GA. My SWAG was a lot more accurate than all the bullshit metrics.

The panic that ensued was horrendous. The support call center (in Boca) didn't have the telco switch hardware or staff to deal with that debacle. People were being shanghaied out of the hardware lab to answer calls, secretaries were answering calls, managers were answering calls, developers/testers and even the fucking janitors were answering calls it was so bad.


Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:49 PM (/gHaE)

138
Nationwide race at 1:15 on ESPN.

Oh, and Are U Faster Than a Redneck was kinda funny last night. Not that it bothers me in the fucking least, but I noticed they cussed a lot on that show. They also had some nice old hot rods.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 23, 2013 12:50 PM (+z4pE)

139 Lovely.

From Drudge

North Korea on Sunday warned the top U.S. military commander stationed in South Korea that his forces would "meet a miserable destruction" if they go ahead with scheduled military drills with South Korean troops,..

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 23, 2013 12:51 PM (piMMO)

140 The "predicted" number of defects for OS/2 2.0 to be fixed over its market lifetime was something like 100. By the time the "refresh" came around 6 months later, ~1,500 had been fixed.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 12:52 PM (/gHaE)

141

Any MD moron have a use for a been boxed up for a decade Amiga 3000?

Hey DaveA. If you're looking to give it away, I'll be in PG county off and on for the next few days. If you're close, I'd be happy to take it off your hands.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at February 23, 2013 12:52 PM (eyJh9)

142 Tastes Like… Energy Independence!

Recently, Democratic Governor of Colorado John Hickenlooper has laudably been fighting against excess and crippling regulation of “fracking” (AKA Hydrolic Fracturing) used to tap America’s fast hydrocarbon wealth. He stood up against the many conspiracy theorists who insisted that “fracking fluid” is pure poison that plutocrats sell in order to buy another ivory backscratcher. Despite conspiracy theories to the contrary, the fracking fluid included chemicals obtained from the food industry, and was quite safe to drink… though New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg would probably insist on banning anything over 16 oz.

More: ttp://politicalhat.com/?p=1459

Posted by: The Political Hat at February 23, 2013 12:53 PM (Vk2pI)

143 137--

True dat. IBM was not really up for consumer support. Victims of their own success, in that sense.

The crowd I was running with at the time was pretty hot for OS/2, as was I (wrote my second book on it). One of them actually said "unless IBM snatches defeat from the jaws of victory..."

And here we are.

Posted by: moviegique at February 23, 2013 12:54 PM (wir87)

144
Heh. I fiddled with OS/2 when it came out. Installed it from 25 5 1/4" floppies. It was SO much more stable than the Windows alternative.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at February 23, 2013 01:00 PM (AbHls)

145 pathetic html skilz

Posted by: Rule #2 at February 23, 2013 01:00 PM (CypDC)

146 76 TW, speaking of old things that just never quite go away, war in Asia between China and Japan may be back soon.

Fun!

Posted by: eman

Other than a temporary control of some drilling sites, I'm not sure what China would gain out of going to war with Japan.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 23, 2013 12:09 PM (Ipj15)




Revenge.

Posted by: The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth at February 23, 2013 01:00 PM (Hsgnv)

147 IBM's customer service and engineering support can be summed up in one phrase, "Fuck you, we're IBM."

This is personal experience talking here.


Posted by: hack at February 23, 2013 01:01 PM (Gek4/)

148 If China were to initiate a war and trade dropped significantly, they would have the recipe for civil war.

--
While that is a possibility, it's minimal as long as the Chinese can win a quick victory.
--

Watching PBS Japan Economic News in English the other day, the wealthy Chinese are no longer spending money, but getting tightwad. When the poor quit spending, that doesn't prevent the rich from tightening their purse strings. But when the rich quit buying, "minimal" doesn't describe the overall affect on the working "class".

And if there's an argument to be made on behalf of the economic 1% v 99% then North Korea makes that case obvious, as do too many places in the world. China's mega-massive population "made" revolution for communism, and will again from Mao nostalgia through another incarnation. The same new incarnation argument holds within Russian nationalism, where the massive population of serfs were whipped into revolution with the promises of communist utopia. Russians may well be projecting Putin as an amalgam of a Czar with Stalin, as if embodying the "best" of Russian public expectations from a national hero bearing the balm to fulfill Russian public ignorant expectations. Obama was fabricated to sell as such in America as "Hope" in a political messiah to "rule" government from on high with the power of god, self invested like Napoleon or Caesar to be self made god of the world.

Evidently, China has its own very real recession happening, as does Japan and Asia -- though that is not to say our US taxes aren't being spent/squandered developing Asia (Burma/etc) on behalf of global corporations' further profiteering and our American citizenry greater depth of economic despair stateside.

Jerry Doyle was airing the problems of Chinese piracy and internet warfare this week.

When Bush was pushing TARP and McCain willingly suspended logic (if ever he had any), in the blog discussions about our national debt to China, rather than allowing our worst enemy (aka most favored trade nation) to abscond with American property/collateral, I wrote that I'd rather the USA forfeit all debt, write the US a clean bill of health, apply the economic "jubilee" globally, and get on with life.

It isn't as if China doesn't have its own debts that would be wiped clean.

And were global war to result from celebrating a global jubilee, then such war was already in the works, regardless of debt or monetary this/that, merely an expansion of the perpetual war of global profiteering. As if the initial propaganda "over there so it isn't over here" ever made sense. Recognize the abuses of authoritarianism from Washington. No organization has the monopoly on corruption.

Posted by: panzernashorn at February 23, 2013 01:03 PM (MhA4j)

149 The media did its part, of course. MS could do no
wrong, or rather, they could, but "warts and all" you wanted to stick
with MS-DOS and MS-Windows. Coverage of competition was relegated to
shootouts that MS always won ("warts and all") for vague reasons, after
losing in almost every technical or usability aspect.



Any of this sounding familiar?

Posted by: moviegique at February 23, 2013 12:38 PM (wir87)


Until Slick's DOJ decided to go after them for antitrust violations (in that extremely ill defined definition) and then Gates temporarily became the worst person in the world.

The funny thing about Big Blew is that with all the strategic fuckups they've made through the years, some but not all of which have been mentioned in this thread, they still make money hand over fist. They were that fucking big.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 23, 2013 01:04 PM (1tS+I)

150 How do you say code in French?

La Code
Posted by: Maurice Ravel at February 23, 2013 12:40 PM (irFb
------------------------------------------------------
Le Code
Posted by: Maurice CHevalier at February 23, 2013 12:42 PM (jucos)

SEXIST!

Posted by: Maurice Ravel at February 23, 2013 01:08 PM (irFb8)

151 149 Captain Hate
Until Slick's DOJ decided to go after them for antitrust violations (in that extremely ill defined definition) and then Gates temporarily became the worst person in the world.


I'm a Mac person, since I learned on a Mac at work in the early 90s. I never liked Windows or other Microsoft products. But I had recently read Atlas Shrugged at the time of the antitrust case, so I was definitely on Bill Gates' side there.

Posted by: rickl at February 23, 2013 01:08 PM (sdi6R)

152 Sticky Wicket, I'm in Germantown. It's free. p dot dave dot a at gmail dot com

Posted by: DaveA at February 23, 2013 01:11 PM (6YLIm)

153
I knew this scrunt that prided her mad computer skillz, except they ended at Word Perfect 5.1. That was the end all - be all of computing for her.

How many people do you think there are still running WP 5.1 under DOS emulation?

Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

I'm willing to bet at least tens of thousands of those kinds of idiots still live in a WP 5.1 cocoon.

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 23, 2013 01:15 PM (tOkJB)

154 Husker, in 1998 or so I developed a device driver for OS/2 2.1 and I paid about $250 for the compiler and nothing for the DDK, so they changed the developer support policies at some point. In fact, what they used to call their "user interface class library" absolutely blew the MFC of that time away, and it came with their reasonably-priced compiler.

OS/2 2.x was a very different thing from OS/2 1.x. OS/2 1.x was indeed written in assembly, but OS/2 2.x was not. In fact, I know of someone who insists he ran OS/2 on a PowerPC back before the project was killed. Windows NT also ran on it, and Windows NT ran on MIPS and Alpha as well before Microsoft figured out that nobody actually wanted to run Windows on anything but x86.

I used to be quite the OS/2 advocate back in the day and I credit it with me being unwilling to engage in advocacy now. (It lost even though I advocated it. Imagine that.) To this day, I think the WorkPlace Shell is the best UI I've ever used. In fact, if I could find any of my OS/2 install disks I'd run it in a virtual machine on my Linux computer. Of course, I've got a theory about why it lost, and of course it's different from everybody else's.

It all goes back to the split between IBM and Microsoft. OS/2 1.x wasn't a product that was going anywhere because it was designed to run on the 80286 processor. Now, the 80286 was the processor that Intel was thinking of when they designed the 8086, but the 80386 was that it was the first CPU that was designed based upon actual customer feedback of what people actually wanted to do with an x86 processor.

What that meant was that DOS emulation was going to suck under OS/2 1.x, and there really wasn't any way around that. When you combine that with the fact that there were few or no native OS/2 1.x applications, then you had a problem. MS produced their entire office suite for OS/2 1.x, but that was about all there was.

Anyway, for OS/2 2.x, IBM wanted to release a 32-bit product (at last) which would allow them to fix the DOS issues, but Microsoft had basically already decided to go their own way with Windows NT. The thing is, once OS/2 2.x came out, people liked it. DOS multitasking was real and it worked. For months, the best selling spreadsheet reported in Computer Shopper was Excel--for OS/2. Then, Computer Shopper stopped reporting on what software was selling best. I imagine it was under pressure from Microsoft.

Microsoft at this point was doing all they could to kill OS/2. Windows NT was looking like it was going to replicate disaster that OS/2 1.x was. So, they applied all kinds of incentives to prevent the adoption of OS/2. For example, their licensing agreements with hardware vendors encouraged the hardware vendors to pay them a Windows royalty for each machine sold, whether it had Windows on it or not, which killed the economic incentive to install other OSes.

IBM, for it's part, treated OS/2 with a kind of benign neglect. Yes, you could buy it from IBM, but their desktop computer division refused to preinstall it on their own computers, and the division writing applications was more focused on Windows (95 at this point) than OS/2. I get the impression that there were huge battles going on within IBM while they figured out what kind of company IBM was going to be.

The last piece was the third-party software writers. They didn't know what was going to win, so they wound up playing it safe. That meant focusing on DOS until it was pretty obvious that Windows was the future and then going with that. That makes sense from their perspective, but if there had been native OS/2 software available it might have come to dominate.

I think it was a combination of all those things that killed it. If Microsoft hadn't actually been trying to kill it, or if IBM had made a unified effort to actually get everyone to use it, or the third party software vendors had adopted it wholeheartedly, OS/2 would have come to dominate. However, under the conditions that actually happened it "failed to thrive."

For my own part, I switched from DOS to OS/2 to Linux on my desktop systems. (Yes, I'm odd. I knew that already.) My logic for switching to Linux went something like this: At some point, I figured IBM would release the last version of OS/2 and it would start to die at that point. It might linger for a while, but it wasn't going to win any new converts at that point. I also figured that someday Linus Torvalds would make his last Linux release, and that nobody would notice because by then the effort would have shifted to focus on someone else. Either that or it would have already died and I'd have already shifted to something else.

Now, of course, I run Windows on my Desktop at work. It's required by the powers that be. However, I work exclusively on Linux machines. Linux has been very, very good to me.

Posted by: JonathanG at February 23, 2013 01:15 PM (ODIOT)

155 When OS/2 1.0 shipped in 1987, there was not a single known (at the time) crash or user data corruption bug on supported hardware -- because the IBM system test manager demanded they all be fixed before he'd sign off on it. Some were subsequently found of course, but the product shipped pretty damned clean as OS's go.

By the time OS/2 2.0 had rolled around, the management philosophy had changed, and the product shipped with dozens of known crash and data corruption bugs.

There's one thing the OS/2 2.0 debacle taught me -- if you think you can slip shit by people in the field, YOU CAN'T. Your "worst case" test scenario is nothing compared to what that code is going to encounter when unleashed.

All test scenarios are optimistic.




Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 01:17 PM (/gHaE)

156 I'm a Mac person, since I learned on a Mac at work
in the early 90s. I never liked Windows or other Microsoft products.
But I had recently read Atlas Shrugged at the time of the antitrust case, so I was definitely on Bill Gates' side there.

Posted by: rickl at February 23, 2013 01:08 PM (sdi6R)


Gates was definitely in the right place at the right time when the dumbasses at Big Blew made the brilliant decision that the BIG MONEY was to be made in hardware and developing operating systems was for small-time losers; which leads us to the fuckup that the thread title is all about after they went WTF. Still the spiteful cocksuckers who rag on Gates as if they could've done things better have their own trails of clusterfuckery; except for the Unix/Linux people who mainly keep to themselves and just keep developing more awesome kernels.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 23, 2013 01:21 PM (1tS+I)

157 If somebody wants to legitimately rag on Gates it's for propping up these worthless public school systems which are fucking the future of the country by producing the mindless tools that the likes of Bill Ayers can manipulate.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 23, 2013 01:25 PM (1tS+I)

158 I get the impression that there were huge battles going on within IBM
while they figured out what kind of company IBM was going to be.


Yep. Epic struggles they were. The hardware lab wanted software as a captive entity, and the software wanted to reach into broader markets. There were even struggles within the hardware universe -- Austin coveted the Boca lab's business, and always did ever since the inception of the 5-slot PC. Austin won that battle when Boca was shutdown and operations moved to Austin.

The software guys were ultimately the winners years later...when the PC hardware business was sold off to Lenovo. They'd won a great internal struggle and wound up with a handful of ashes.


Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 01:26 PM (/gHaE)

159 OT

I just read that my local teachers' union is going to go on HHIIRREEEYYAAA!! if their contract isn't --

damn it!

Posted by: MLB Home Plate Umpire at February 23, 2013 01:26 PM (0pcT0)

160 159
OT



I just read that my local teachers' union is going to go on HHIIRREEEYYAAA!! if their contract isn't --



damn it!

Posted by: MLB Home Plate Umpire at February 23, 2013 01:26 PM (0pcT0)

Is HHIIRREEEYYAAA!! good or bad?

Posted by: Red Shirt at February 23, 2013 01:28 PM (FIDMq)

161 154--

No, I think that's about right.

Note that Microsoft changed the device driver structure for Windows 95 for the sole purpose of making it impossible to run under OS/2.

Also, I was in Austin where OS/2 was being run on PowerPCs. At a conference for tech writers/developers, the hardware guy (who was convinced PPC chips would soon outstrip x86 technology, whoops) and the OS/2 guy were at odds, because the PPC didn't want his product associated with OS/2.

Posted by: moviegique at February 23, 2013 01:29 PM (wir87)

162 There's one thing the OS/2 2.0 debacle taught me -- if you think you can slip shit by people in the field, YOU CAN'T. Your "worst case" test scenario is nothing compared to what that code is going to encounter when unleashed.

All test scenarios are optimistic.


I've said this since about 1992: If it doesn't work in the lab, it won't work in the field. If it doesn't work in the field, it doesn't work.

Posted by: JonathanG at February 23, 2013 01:32 PM (ODIOT)

163 151 . But I had recently
read Atlas Shrugged at the time of the antitrust case, so I was definitely on Bill Gates' side there.

I endured half of Alas Shrugged as a teenager only to throw the book in the trash as unreadable. Since then I 've concluded that Ayn Rand peddle kitsch Nietzsche. Rand's protagonists were none other than cartoonish versions of Nietzsche's Ubermenschen, amoral sociopathic "supermen". If one dares one can contemplate the real life versions of Rand's Nietzschean heroes in the persons of the young Nazi commanders and SS officers of the invasion of the Soviet Union.



Posted by: Mike O'Malley at February 23, 2013 01:35 PM (E3kEk)

164 163 Mike O'Malley
If one dares one can contemplate the real life versions of Rand's Nietzschean heroes in the persons of the young Nazi commanders and SS officers of the invasion of the Soviet Union.


That is flatly absurd, if not outright libelous.

Rand was born in Czarist Russia and lived through the Bolshevik Revolution. She wanted no part of collectivism and fled to the United States as soon as she could.

I recommend her 1930s novels "We the Living" and "Anthem".

Posted by: rickl at February 23, 2013 01:46 PM (sdi6R)

165 convinced PPC chips would soon outstrip x86 technology

IBM was convinced Intel had hit an architectural "performance wall" with the 486 and the only way forward was with something else.

Its true there was a wall going to be hit eventually, but it was a thermal wall, not architectural. The P60/66 were real heaters. Process changed that with the 75/90/100/120/150/etc.

Now the wall is thermal again, hence the Core 2/4 stuff. Multi-cores wasn't done for performance reasons, it was so the shit could be cooled and not meltdown. An equivalently fast uni-core could be built, and some test units were, but they couldn't be cooled reliably.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 01:52 PM (/gHaE)

166 IBM couldn't sell software to save their lives. They couldn't sell Warp 3 if they gave away a free laptop. When they bought Lotus I said, "Well, so long Lotus" and I was right in a really scarily short time.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at February 23, 2013 02:14 PM (xjpRj)

167 164 That is flatly absurd, if not outright libelous.

Rand was born in Czarist Russia and lived through the Bolshevik
Revolution. She wanted no part of collectivism and fled to the United
States as soon as she could.


Posted by: rickl at February 23, 2013 01:46 PM (sdi6R)
.
Libelous? Why because Rand fled the Communists? Because one might be disquieted by the reality of Nietzsche's influence on Rand? Ayn Rand devoted considerable effort to studying Nietzsche's philosophical works at Petrograd State University in the early 1920s, roughly at the same time many young German anti-Marxist proto-Nazi's were studying Nietzsche in post-war Germany. Scholars have found evidence of Nietzsche's influence in Rand's journals, in passages of We the Living, and in her overall writing style.

Posted by: Mike O'Malley at February 23, 2013 02:16 PM (E3kEk)

168
IBM couldn't sell software to save their lives


Consumer software...although their DOS sales were always handled competently (and were what bankrolled the OS/2 work)

A lot of the internet runs on IBM big iron Linux systems that are tweaked up to optimize virtual web servers.

The TCO when power consumption is considered is superior with those big iron virtualized web servers.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 02:29 PM (/gHaE)

169 糸が開いている

Posted by: Socratease at February 23, 2013 02:54 PM (qPLGT)

170 The Register in the UK recently published to essays written by an ex-IBM insider, Dom Connor.

Connor seems to think the problem with OS/2 was IBM's business model wherein it derived most of its cash flow back then from mainframes and database management. PCs and therefore OS/2 was a threat to the IBM's aging golden-geese. So OS/2 was starved by the guys with the green eye-shades.





Posted by: Mike O'Malley at February 23, 2013 03:40 PM (E3kEk)

171 So OS/2 was starved by the guys with the green eye-shades.

There was plenty of money flowing, its just that some incredibly bad decisions were made. I spent 10 years in Boca. Money was never a problem, competent executive leadership at the lab director and Armonk level was.

In the early 1990's there were some good 1st and 2nd line managers, the 3rd line and up were atrocious and vastly more interested in promoting their careers rather than making the product actually work.

The OS/2 2.0 3rd line was Bob Bulkley, essentially an IPR (in plant retiree) refugee from an IBM division that did a lot of govt work looking to punch the clock for a couple of years until he could retire. His style reflected that and his lack of technical expertise allowed 1st and 2nd line managers to run all over him with rosy bullshit.

You never saw him wandering around the lab at night talking to the lab rats to get the real picture. He never actually tried installing the product on his own office machine -- some serf did that for him, and only accepted information in distilled "chart" form. You never see him perusing a defect database.

The contrast between Bulkley and Ted Bream (who was the 3rd line through the OS/2 1.0/1.1/1.2 era) was stark. Bream brooked no shit, was tech savvy, and cruised the lab at night, and read the defect database himself to get the real story about what was going on. I would have crawled over broken glass in in the fires of hell for Bream...Bulkley not so much.

Not surprisingly, Bream went on to a stellar career, became an IBM lab director, and now has his own outfit.

http://www.coreagenda.com/about-us.html

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 04:34 PM (/gHaE)

172 RE: Posted by: @PurpAv at February 23, 2013 04:34 PM (/gHaE)

Thanks for your perspective Purp(le) Av(enger). The first of Dom Connor's essays can be found here:
http://www.os2world.com/past-news/81-press/86-why-os-2-failed-part-1


Posted by: Mike O'Malley at February 24, 2013 07:21 AM (E3kEk)

173 OS2 died because IBM wanted to code it such that it could only be run on
IBM PCs. They wanted to lock people in to their stuff. This resulted in
the breakup of the collaboration between Microsoft and IBM.


Microsoft
went on to push Windows 3.1 which essentially took over everything.
That was also about the time I finally pulled the plug on DOS.


OS/2 ran on clone hardware just fine - there is a no name clone OS/2 Warp system sitting right in front of me as I type this, and yes - it still runs.

I was an OS/2 developer, and I didn't have to pay a fortune to get the development tools - the Microsoft development tools were more expensive. Warp ran all of the Windows 3.1 programs without issues as far as I could tell.

What killed OS/2 was Windows 95. More specifically it was Microsoft's marketing of Windows 95 that killed OS/2; they generated the impression that 95 was the way to go and that is where the market went.

There is a quote from the head of Microsoft marketing on the subject: "If you had asked anyone at Microsoft if OS/2 was a better operating system than Windows 95 they would have said yes. Our job in marketing was to make sure nobody outside of Microsoft knew that."

What the Windows 95 marketing victory proved is that given enough marketing funds you can sell absolute crap to people; Obama and the Democrats learned that lesson well.

Posted by: An Observation at February 24, 2013 11:26 AM (ylhEn)

174 There's one thing the OS/2 2.0 debacle taught me -- if you think you can
slip shit by people in the field, YOU CAN'T. Your "worst case" test
scenario is nothing compared to what that code is going to encounter
when unleashed.


Unless you are Microsoft selling Windows 95 - which had inherent structural design flaws that guaranteed it could never work properly no matter how much patching was done. OS/2 2.0 was solid as a rock compared to the Windows 9X source code tree.

With Windows 95 Microsoft invented something that was pretty much thought to be impossible; the entire concept of intermittent software.


Posted by: An Observation at February 24, 2013 12:14 PM (ylhEn)

175 BTW--Bill Gates was a good businessman but not so hot as a technology
person. Best ideas including DOS--Windows, etc. came from others. His
company just did better at selling it thanks ironically to IBM. [i/]

Gates was a superb coder - he and Paul Allen wrote what became Microsoft Basic - the language that made CP/M take off - in 8080 assembly language - while not even having access to an 8080. They had to write a cross assembler and an 8080 simulator for the PDP-11 IIRC to do that. All of those were monumental tasks. Anyone today who thinks they are hot shot coders ought to try developing a floating point package in 8080 assembly. That alone is a Master's thesis level project.

When Microsoft had about 10,000 programmers they had an anonymous programming contest where the judges didn't know who wrote what code - Bill Gates won the contest.

When an acquaintance of mine created the concept of cloud computing back in the 90's Gates flew him up to Microsoft to explain the concept to him personally - so that the company wouldn't get caught in the starting gate. He asked him a lot of tough questions about how they were doing things technically. Bill Gates is a Geek's Geek.

Posted by: An Observation at February 24, 2013 12:44 PM (ylhEn)






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