Jerry Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy

And everything else, really.

Teacher's unions, government bureaucracy. Even the Pentagon.

This applies especially to the media and the Democratic Party, too.

Iron Law of Bureaucracy

In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

Or, restated:

...in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representatives who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.

I would say this applies to the Republican Party as well but we also don't seem to be advancing party interests, either. We're advancing neither interests nor goals.

Thanks to steevy. I like that. It's so obviously true but I never noticed.

Posted by: Ace at 01:47 PM



Comments

1 Even shorter:

In any bureaucracy, there will be rent-seekers.

Posted by: EC at February 22, 2013 01:50 PM (GQ8sn)

2 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 01:51 PM (xN73L)

3 And of course the first thread I'm able to jump in today is one that would die within minutes.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 01:51 PM (xN73L)

4 It fits the GOP if you view it as a bureau of a larger organization: Government.

Posted by: Brother Cavil and his Ampersandsaurus at February 22, 2013 01:51 PM (GBXon)

5 “The president’s sequester is the wrong way to reduce the deficit, but it is here to stay until Washington Democrats get serious about cutting spending.”

-- House Speaker John Boehner in a Wall Street Journal Op-Ed on Wednesday.

Posted by: Darby Shaw at February 22, 2013 01:52 PM (e8kgV)

6 The Bureaucracy exists to serve only one thing - itself. All other considerations are secondary.

Posted by: LGoPs at February 22, 2013 01:52 PM (4x8W0)

7 Don't forget that the second class of people are not just power-hungry but they are the worst-performing. The worst teachers are the ones who are the biggest cheerleaders for the union. Not just to protect themselves but because they have no other skills.

This is why the wussmanities professors are always high up in academic bureaucracy. They have so little else to do.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 22, 2013 01:52 PM (T0NGe)

8 Soa bureaucracy os much like a living organism, mostly a weed. So we need a department who's function to kill other departments.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at February 22, 2013 01:52 PM (sYTYw)

9 As the old saying goes, the Republican Party has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.



And I have worked in one of those bureaucracies. The only time we got a break was when a real person with hand-on experience got to be in charge. In the 30 years I worked there that only happened once.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 01:52 PM (53z96)

10 So what kind of organizations are NOT bureaucratic, ultimately speaking? Besides ad hoc things like blog comment threads?

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (3ZtZW)

11 This is also the iron law of military staffs. Any military staff can be divided into 3 groups: 1. those who think everything they do matters; 2. those who think that nothing they do matters; and 3. those who don't care if what they do matters so long as the process is respected.

Guess who gets promoted.

Posted by: VADM(Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned In Dispatches) at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (p4U6S)

12 Damn. I really need to think up something smart and insightful to say so that I can get on the front page.


............................................



Kate Upton has nice boobehs.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (da5Wo)

13 67% of all Internet posts consist of rephrasing the same sentiments over and over.

At least Pournelle writes kick ass SF.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (dTGOB)

14 8 Soa bureaucracy os much like a living organism, mostly a weed. So we need a department who's function to kill other departments.
Posted by: buzzsaw90 at February 22, 2013 01:52 PM (sYTYw)

The Department of Liberty

Posted by: Harry Reid at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (FsUAO)

15 If you can, do. If, you can't do, teach. If you can't teach, administer.
If you can't administer, you throw a hissy fit and hit the links.

Posted by: BuddyPC at February 22, 2013 01:54 PM (jfUIE)

16 Power-seekers seek power.

Posted by: lauraw at February 22, 2013 01:54 PM (nr0Tm)

17 Off damnable sock!

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 01:54 PM (FsUAO)

18 For the GOP, you've got the wrong bureaucracy. They group that actually runs the party works for their own benefit. It used to be that the goal was to reduce the size of government, and the goal of the insiders was to win elections. Now, the goal of the organization is to win elections, and the goal of the insiders is to help themselves to huge amounts of donor cash.

Posted by: Let Them All Burn at February 22, 2013 01:54 PM (DjCET)

19 >>>So we need a department who's function to kill other departments.

Which I think was one of Pournelle's ideas too

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 01:55 PM (3ZtZW)

20 Guess who gets promoted.

Posted by: VADM(Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned In Dispatches) at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (p4U6S)

The one who is the most adept at kissing ass.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 01:55 PM (53z96)

21 18 For the GOP, you've got the wrong bureaucracy. They group that actually runs the party works for their own benefit. It used to be that the goal was to reduce the size of government, and the goal of the insiders was to win elections. Now, the goal of the organization is to win elections, and the goal of the insiders is to help themselves to huge amounts of donor cash.
Posted by: Let Them All Burn at February 22, 2013 01:54 PM (DjCET)

When was the Republican leadership actually about rolling back the state?

A teensy glimpse during Reagan, sure.

But I think we are romanticizing the party a bit.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 01:56 PM (FsUAO)

22

I'm assuming you read this, too?

http://tinyurl.com/bzt8mq9

been kinda the buzz, but haven't checked this site for it.

As Country Club Republicans Link Up With The Democratic Ruling Class, Millions Of Voters Are Orphaned

Read the whole thing.

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 01:56 PM (LpQbZ)

23 I'm thinking a "Let It Burn" party would be a fun idea at this point.

Posted by: NR Pax at February 22, 2013 01:56 PM (1ml8s)

24 Every 5 years a department must be eliminated and essential functions returned to the states/neighboring department.

Do this I dunno for 30 years.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 01:57 PM (FsUAO)

25 I would say this applies to the Republican Party as well but we also don't seem to be advancing party interests, either. We're advancing neither interests nor goals.

I disagree. On both of those, actually.

In any sufficiently large organization there will be three kinds of people.

1) Those devoted to the stated goals of the organization.
2) Those devoted to the running of the organization.
3) Those who see the organization as their own pathway to power.

Those in the second group will run the bureaucracy, and set the rules under which the the first group must operate. But those in the third group will run the organization and set the rules under which the second group must operate.

Once you see that, you see that the Republican party is operating exactly as expected. Those at the very top, who are every bit the "feudal lords" as Democrats, for the most part, establish the bureaucracy and its rules, then the bureaucracy establishes the rules for the worker bees.

However, since Conservatism is axiomatically opposed to centralized power, the stated goals of the Republican Party and the goals of the third group are diametrically opposed.

Thus the reason the Republican Party continues to fail, and thus the reason that Conservatives often point out that the Republican Party is not a Conservative party- whatever they may claim.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 01:57 PM (xN73L)

26 I got nothin, I'm a Special Ed. teacher and i don't know my ass from a hole in the ground anymore. I work on Planet Zongo. and if I told the things I've seen I would be locked in an institution for the delusionally insane.

Posted by: EduSquid at February 22, 2013 01:58 PM (KgD0C)

27 Iron law of military command: When the going gets tough, call for the sons of bitches.*

*Fleet Admiral E. J. King, Commander in Chief U.S. Fleet and Chief of Naval Operations, 1942 - 45.

Posted by: VADM(Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned In Dispatches) at February 22, 2013 01:58 PM (p4U6S)

28 Wasn't it WF Buckley that said every organization that isn't explicitly conservative eventually moves left?

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 01:58 PM (dBYCN)

29 Okay, the ostensible goal of the GOP, the one they used to get positions of power. Now it's the one they use to get votes and money.

Posted by: Let Them All Burn at February 22, 2013 01:58 PM (DjCET)

30 In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy
itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the
bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and
sometimes are eliminated entirely.

***

Any resemblance to SEIU is purely coincidental.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM (XUKZU)

31 You peasants appear as ants from up here

Posted by: King Barry The Magnifisent at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM (boyOw)

32 if I told the things I've seen I would be locked in an institution for the delusionally insane.

My mom and Sister-in-Law both used to be Special Ed teachers (until just the last couple of years). Trust me, I'd believe it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM (xN73L)

33
19>>> So we need a department who's function to kill other departments.

Which I think was one of Pournelle's ideas too

---
So if this dpartment were funded solely by the savings it could wring from other departments, that would make it self-regulating.It would grow large if the system was wasteful and then have to shrink as the system became more lean.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM (sYTYw)

34 Yep.

Pournelle's law applies to non-profits and advocacy groups, too.

I got a close-quarters lesson in just what a Quisling was when the head of the advocacy group sold us out (gave group support to a bullshit piece of legislation) to have a seat on the state panel.

As Chris Rock says - "I'm not saying I approve of wha they did ... I'm saying ** I understand **.

I talked to the guy before the vote and *boy* was I shocked. I would have dragged the fucker out into the streets and pummeled him but for - you know - laws and such.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM (J8DGo)

35
We need Term Limits for Bureaucrats.

We've now got 2nd and 3rd generation bureaucrats...that have no idea of what it's like to work out in the private sector.
Working for the government is all they know.

Since government bureaucrat jobs are now such a cushy, well-paid gig...we should impose Term Limits.
10 years, and you're outa there.
Give someone else a chance to ride the gravy train.
It's only fair.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:00 PM (eyJSG)

36 I would say this applies to the Republican Party as well but we also don't seem to be advancing party interests, either. We're advancing neither interests nor goals.

Yes, they are. Their interests and goals aren't what you think they are.

/inigo montoya

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:00 PM (p/cQy)

37 got nothin, I'm a Special Ed. teacher and i don't know my ass from a hole in the ground anymore. I work on Planet Zongo. and if I told the things I've seen I would be locked in an institution for the delusionally insane.
-------------
I'm a special ed advocate (parent's side) ... Planet Zongo exists. I tell parents at the start of the engagement "you're not crazy, and none of this is ever, ever going to make sense -let's start."

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 22, 2013 02:01 PM (J8DGo)

38 >I would say this applies to the Republican Party as well but we also don't seem to be advancing party interests, either. We're advancing neither interests nor goals.


What IS advancing is the individual party members' ease, comfort, and power

The 'mandarins' are concerned most with the well-being of the mandarins

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 22, 2013 02:01 PM (8sCoq)

39 32if I told the things I've seen I would be locked in an institution for the delusionally insane.

My mom and Sister-in-Law both used to be Special Ed teachers (until just the last couple of years). Trust me, I'd believe it.Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM (xN73L)========================================Thanks AG, I'll remember that next time I talk to myself in the mirror.

Posted by: EduSquid at February 22, 2013 02:02 PM (KgD0C)

40 16 Power-seekers seek power.

Even if your power is checking a kindergarden girl's lunchbox and rendering it illegal. Remember the story of the little girl who had her lunch taken away. Who wants that job, who applies for it, and then who performs the function? I'll tell you who, mental cases.

Posted by: madamex at February 22, 2013 02:02 PM (+kvQd)

41 So we need a department who's function to kill other departments.

Which I think was one of Pournelle's ideas too


Frank Herbert. Not in his Dune books, either...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Sabotage

Posted by: Brother Cavil and his Ampersandsaurus at February 22, 2013 02:02 PM (GBXon)

42


Yes, it applies to Republicans, duhhh.



It applies to all organzations over time.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:02 PM (1Y+hH)

43 Again, AllenG, you here?

Posted by: L, elle at February 22, 2013 02:03 PM (0PiQ4)

44 >>>So if this dpartment were funded solely by the savings it could wring from other departments, that would make it self-regulating.It would grow large if the system was wasteful and then have to shrink as the system became more lean.

They would have to operate undercover. Like a DEA, Dept of Eliminating A-holes? I dunno. They can have the DEA buildings first is all I know.

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 02:03 PM (3ZtZW)

45 ________ is in the business of staying in business.

Government, eco-activists, AGW researchers, UN, Post Office...

Posted by: Xavier at February 22, 2013 02:05 PM (kf4y0)

46
In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.


This also explains the Locust Effect of liberals/leftists/regressives when they move into an other wise conservative region. They move to the red state (or county, city, neighborhood...) because they prefer the economic vitality, educational benefits, or the geographic setting to their own blue state hellhole. They then proceed to take everything that has made that red state/county/city/neighborhood so prosperous and mutate it into the blue state leviathan they sought to escape. They then leave the area in search of greener pastures, but their influence is impossible to remove.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:05 PM (4df7R)

47 "We need Term Limits for Bureaucrats. We've now got 2nd and 3rd generation bureaucrats...that have no idea of what it's like to work out in the private sector. "

Substitute Bureaucrat for Welfare Recipient, still works, and just as needed.

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 02:05 PM (3ZtZW)

48 Again, AllenG, you here?

Peek-a-boo!

I just answered your question in the other thread.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 02:07 PM (xN73L)

49 one quick story -

kid in elementary school needed a laptop due to diagnosed problems (dysgraphia and some others) transferred to middle school. Middle school principal did not want students tohave laptops Rejected any and all requests for a laptop, wouldn't listen to reason.

Parent called me. Thought a bit and told him - "Tell the principal your sonneeds an assistive technology device which enables him to perform his school work, enter information, and generate reports for teachers." This was followed by "No, I'm not kidding - say exactly that - he'll recommend a laptop."

Got a call back from a stunned parent the next day. "It worked."

It's a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad world.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 22, 2013 02:07 PM (J8DGo)

50 I was just thinking that, if people are insistent on starting a third party -- something they do in fact seem insistent on -- it would be better to do so NOW rather than waiting forever on it. Let's get the clock running on being out of power for 20 years.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2013 02:07 PM (LCRYB)

51 The problem with the GOP is the same as the problem with do-gooder groups in general. If they actually worked to solve the issues they claim to solve, they would put themselves out of a job. When is the last time you heard a republican announce that they were eliminating existing legislation, instead of proposing new legislation?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at February 22, 2013 02:07 PM (FZnrK)

52 The GOP party is advancing it's interests. The party is sucking up any real opposition to the progressive state and making and powerless. Politics because a lot easier to understand once you realize the GOP is the outer party and the DEMs are the inner party of the same state party.

Posted by: Red at February 22, 2013 02:08 PM (7iiiQ)

53
Ref #28.

(don't think it was Buckley)

Yes, those two rules (moving left and bureaucrats subverting goals) work well together. Since they both happen at the same they explain a lot of the current decay.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at February 22, 2013 02:08 PM (AbHls)

54 They bombed our embassy and killed our ambassador and other Americans. Why didn't the military do anything??

Pentagon: There was nothing we could do. We did not receive a formal request for assistance from the State Department.

If you think I'm kidding, go reread the CJCS testimony.

Posted by: VADM(Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned In Dispatches) at February 22, 2013 02:08 PM (p4U6S)

55
67% of all Internet posts consist of rephrasing the same sentiments over and over.

At least Pournelle writes kick ass SF.



63.2% +/-(.01)

Posted by: eleven at February 22, 2013 02:08 PM (GXZgZ)

56 Is SCOAMF going to reduce Foreign Aid, or is he gonna starve our chilluns and still send out checks to the rest of the fuckin world (that we have to borrow money for)

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at February 22, 2013 02:09 PM (UU0OF)

57 28---" Wasn't it WF Buckley that said every organization that isn't explicitly conservative eventually moves left?"

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 01:58 PM (dBYCN)
--------------------
I believe that is O'Sullivan's Law, named for one of WFB's editors at NR. (I'm not sure though!)

In any case, that is a really good corollary to Pournelle's Law.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 22, 2013 02:09 PM (C8mVl)

58
39
32if I told the things I've seen I would be locked in an institution for the delusionally insane.

-----------------------------

My
mom and Sister-in-Law both used to be Special Ed teachers (until just
the last couple of years). Trust me, I'd believe it.

Posted by: AllenG
(Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM
(xN73L)

--------------------------------

Thanks AG, I'll remember
that next time I talk to myself in the mirror.

Posted by: EduSquid at February 22, 2013 02:02 PM (KgD0C)


My wife taught Kindergarten for 3 years at a school in Maryland that was the Autism center for the county. Her classes were typically 50/50 by the end of the year. She also taught for a year here in Florida. As soon as they found out what she had been doing in Maryland, they assigned her the class that the Autistic class would eventually be integrated with. There was supposed to be her, the other class' teacher and an aide in the room. However, the other teacher was also the person who had to be present for all IEP meetings with parents. And the aide was part time. So my wife ended up with 49 kids. Half of whom were special needs. And she was pregnant.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 22, 2013 02:09 PM (da5Wo)

59 13 67% of all Internet posts consist of rephrasing the same sentiments over and over. At least Pournelle writes kick ass SF.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (dTGOB)

********

89.2% of all statistics cited on the Internet are fabricated.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (qqZuQ)

60 53 Now I need to find out who said it.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (dBYCN)

61 Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 22, 2013 01:59 PM (J8DGo)


We need more pummeling.

Posted by: Jean at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (3tFLC)

62 Like I said, The Karl Roves® are there for The Karl Roves® benefit.
Just an angle to play for personal power and wealth.

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (+I8Mq)

63 Since government bureaucrat jobs are now such a cushy, well-paid gig...we should impose Term Limits.

***

"LOS ANGELES (AP) — The unschooled and illiterate former
mayor of the scandal-ridden suburban city of Bell had no training that
would have alerted him that his huge salary was illegal, his lawyer told
a jury in closing arguments.
Former Mayor Oscar Hernandez didn't
have a college or high school degree and didn't even finish elementary
school, defense attorney Stanley Friedman said at the corruption trial.
Hernandez
is among six former Bell city officials charged with misappropriating
funds. He was earning just under $100,000 a year for the part-time job."


Too stupid and illiterate to be guilty.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (XUKZU)

64 Thanks Allen G

I was about to go to your blog but thought I might get lost since apparently it doesn't exist, or so everyone here says. Btw, good post above. Agree with your breakdown 100%.

Uuh? Is Ace advocating 3rd party?

Posted by: L, elle at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (0PiQ4)

65 I was just thinking that, if people are insistent on starting a third
party -- something they do in fact seem insistent on -- it would be
better to do so NOW rather than waiting forever on it. Let's get the
clock running on being out of power for 20 years.


Which is exactly what 3rd party advocates have been saying for years.

Of course, in many ways it's like the ANWR drilling:

DEM: "It'll take 10 years to get to market!"
Intelligent Human Being: "No it won't."
DEM: "Yes it will! I have studies!"
IHB: "No. It won't. But even assuming it would- that's what you said 10 years ago, too."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (xN73L)

66 You're wrong Ace. The Republican party, however inept, is attempting to advance their party's interest. Those in power have the sole aim of getting back into power, and will do so at the expense of the goals of the party, which is generally stated in the platform. And within the party, there are those who are already in power whose sole aim is to remain in power, regardless of the goals of the party as a whole. Sort of a wheels within wheels problem. In either case, thise who want to advance the platform are kept from or removed from power.

Posted by: Jon in TX at February 22, 2013 02:11 PM (O9Glq)

67 I'm a special ed advocate (parent's side) ... Planet Zongo exists. I tell parents at the start of the engagement "you're not crazy, and none of this is ever, ever going to make sense -let's start."Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 22, 2013 02:01 PM (J8DGo)=======================================================I refuse to pull kids out of class who are having trouble staying 'focused'into the "resource" roomto get them then 'focused' on Math and Reading when they are now missing gen ed. math and reading. Hello...earth to education. Ihave 7th-8th and some kids have been pulled out 2x a day since kinder. Huh? i go into the class and work with them to keep them in the grade level curriculum and the 'pullout' crowd hates me. Fuck them. Idiots. Parents love it. Don't call myself a special ed. teacher but an Academic Coach. i have kids not even in my caseload wanting to work with me. Public SPED blows. These poor kids are told they have a "learning disability" since kinder.

Posted by: EduSquid at February 22, 2013 02:11 PM (KgD0C)

68 50 I was just thinking that, if people are insistent on starting a third party -- something they do in fact seem insistent on -- it would be better to do so NOW rather than waiting forever on it. Let's get the clock running on being out of power for 20 years.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2013 02:07 PM (LCRYB)

-----------

I'll bet we could get funding from the Democrats.
They have fond memories of Ross Perot's third party.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:11 PM (eyJSG)

69 50 - well, that's true for anybody you're intending to support - you must start now. The GOP is going to herd us towards whoever they have pre-selected [Jeb Bush? Christie?] unless you've already got groundswell by 6 months from now.

And yes, I want a third party. GOP brand is dogshit. Still. Everybody is praying for collapse so that even retards can see how bad Dems are - which is hope, and hope ain't a plan.

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 02:12 PM (3ZtZW)

70 " Let's get the clock running on being out of power for 20 years."

Nonsense. There were only two terms between the last Whig President and the first Republican.

Posted by: SCOAMF Search Committee at February 22, 2013 02:13 PM (Ale7o)

71 Rand submits plan to make sequestration cuts with no layoffs.

Smart? He really needs to hit home on Obama for all his scare mongering.

Posted by: Hobojerky at February 22, 2013 02:13 PM (XJrUZ)

72
Organzations operated more efficiently when life expectancy was lower.

Now these bastard politicians sit up there until they are in their 80's. None of them are much good after the first couple of terms. They been bought by then, and the rest of their tenure just brings damage.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:13 PM (1Y+hH)

73 Too stupid and illiterate to be guilty.
Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (XUKZU)



So I guess the whole Ignorantia juris non excusat thing is just out the window, eh?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:13 PM (4df7R)

74 If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to the new"right wing extremist party".And of course the GOP will help them.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:14 PM (dBYCN)

75 This is why Democrats are so successful- they are the bureaucracy, no matter who is in office.

Posted by: Baldy at February 22, 2013 02:14 PM (opS9C)

76 I can't figure out the irony of this blogpost.

Posted by: Public K-12 Principal, Earning $300k per annum at February 22, 2013 02:15 PM (pmsMR)

77 "Tell the principal your sonneeds an assistive technology device which
enables him to perform his school work, enter information, and generate
reports for teachers."

***

I was surprised in law school to discover that there are magic words and phrases which one must incant much as a medieval alchemist trying to turn lead into gold. I was more naive then.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:15 PM (XUKZU)

78
"Let's get the clock running on being out of power for 20 years."



It's already running. The twenty years is a SWAG.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:15 PM (1Y+hH)

79 Pentagon: There was nothing we could do. We did not receive a formal request for assistance from the State Department.


Yep, that's what they said.

Here's the thing, as much as my mind recoils at that thought, and as much as I'd like to smack around whoever did not give them standing orders to mount a rescue if needed: they're exactly right.

We really don't want the Pentagon deciding on its own recognizance when to (or not to) mount a military operation. There's a reason we specifically made the military subordinate to the civil authority.

Again, I'm flabbergasted that no one (who could officially do so) asked for help, and that there weren't standing orders to render aid (given the area and the repeated requests for additional security, and (oh, yeah) the fact it was September 11th). But given that such orders were not made, and given that the State Department did not request aid, the Pentagon would have been wrong to intervene on their own recognizance.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 02:15 PM (xN73L)

80 If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to the new"right wing extremist party".And of course the GOP will help them.
Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:14 PM (dBYCN)



Which is why the representatives of the new party need to be the sort who will listen politely to whatever some leftist or Republican asshat has to say about them, the point at him/her/it, laugh loudly, and snort, "Everything that guy just said is bullshit. FYNQ."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:16 PM (4df7R)

81 >>>If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to the new"right wing extremist party".And of course the GOP will help them.

Already accounted for. We name it The Socialist Party. Then we do what the fuck we want because nobody holds anybody accountable for anything now so what's in a name?

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 02:16 PM (3ZtZW)

82 Brother Cavil, thank you. I had forgotten that.

Posted by: Jean at February 22, 2013 02:16 PM (2aO3a)

83
I agree, if we (conservatives) are going to be without any representation for the next 8, 16 or 20 years, we may as well get to it on the new party.

The quick thought would be you have to start with someone who has the time and money and thinks the same way, off the top of my head who is there, Levin, Beck, Limbaugh, Evil Koch Brothers. But I can hear it now, "ewwww not Beck he cried, Levin's voice bothers me..."

I think it will more naturally happen upon a collapse, if the repubs would get out of the way and let it happen, but of course they want their phony baloney jobs.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:17 PM (p/cQy)

84 Maybe we don't need a 3rd party. Just take enough heads- Boehner, McConnell, McCain- that the rest get their minds right.

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 22, 2013 02:17 PM (8sCoq)

85 Alright. Back to work for me.

Be good, kiddies.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 02:18 PM (xN73L)

86 Too stupid and illiterate to be guilty.




Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (XUKZU)

He'll get off because the jury will be made up of stupid and illiterate inner city FSA people.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 02:18 PM (53z96)

87 84 We've been trying that route.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:18 PM (dBYCN)

88 Some of the comments remind of the part in the movie 'Oh God' when after the poker game ends, when ask how the did, everyone says they won a couple of bucks.

Bureaucracy feeds upon itself no matter who is leading the department. You can manually self correct for aperiod but the esscence of bureaucracy will always return. Is it because of the theory ace posted or is it because bureaucracy turns people into what the theory says they were already?

Classic chicken or egg paradigm.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:19 PM (m2CN7)

89 AllenG, it's a little more complicated then that. The key point was the President not calling together the terrorism task force - that would have put all the players at the table.

Posted by: Jean at February 22, 2013 02:19 PM (2aO3a)

90 74---" If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to the new"right wing extremist party".And of course the GOP will help them."

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:14 PM (dBYCN)
-----------------
THIS.
The truth is that our only hope lies in changing the minds of voters, in making our own Long March through the institutions, in working to destroy the Left, and in taking over the GOP.
We have to do what the Left did in the 20th century.

And in the meantime we have to work HARD to preserve the basic civil liberties that will allow us to function.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 22, 2013 02:19 PM (C8mVl)

91
"This is why Democrats are so successful- they are the bureaucracy, no matter who is in office."

_ __________ ___ _______ ___ ___ ___ ____ ___

Exactly what my cousin who worked in the Labor Dept used to say. "Administrations come and go, but we are always here. We just laugh at them."
--- - -- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -

He's enjoying his fat retirement now. Part of his retirementpay was garnered by cheating, which he likes to brag about.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:20 PM (1Y+hH)

92 Nonsense. There were only two terms between the last Whig President and the first Republican.





Posted by: SCOAMF Search Committee at February 22, 2013 02:13 PM (Ale7o)

But that was because the Democrat Party split.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 02:20 PM (53z96)

93 If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to the new"right wing extremist party".And of course the GOP will help them.

Perhaps, but it can work

Posted by: Prime Minister Stephen Harper - Formerly of the Reform/Canadian Alliance Parties at February 22, 2013 02:21 PM (BrQrN)

94 Theres another piece to this though.... a Beraucracy will ALWAYS Expand, due to a simple fact.

People will always want to be promoted faster than those above them retire, or leave... so they create a need that must be administrered, and staff'd.

Thus we have things like the Federal Inspectors who go around inspecting Magicians RABITs, and how they are treated during Travel. This created not only Inspectors, but those who Supervise those Inspectors, along with the entire support staff needed....

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 22, 2013 02:21 PM (lZBBB)

95 Again, I'm flabbergasted that no one (who could officially do so) asked for help,


They did ask a month or so BEFORE the attack. Hillary asked for more security and it was shot down by the WH. That was leaked to the press months ago but has fallen in a silent hole.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 02:22 PM (53z96)

96 any organization given total fiat power will eventually whether by design or fate invariably misuse said power.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 02:23 PM (LRFds)

97 (sidebar) Yay, India is spending for a mission to mars, while most of their country is still illiterate! LOL!!

Posted by: jt2 at February 22, 2013 02:23 PM (U3CzV)

98 >>>The quick thought would be you have to start with someone who has the time and money and thinks the same way, off the top of my head who is there, Levin, Beck, Limbaugh, Evil Koch Brothers. But I can hear it now, "ewwww not Beck he cried, Levin's voice bothers me..."

It'll be Libertarians and Beck. The Libertarians are getting very Purist-y all of a sudden, if you haven't noticed. Penn will also be a 'thought leader' in this. SoCons, love ya but you're gonna get butthurt in this. It'll be time to seize ground later. Now is holding. If Rush retires it'll seal the deal.

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 02:23 PM (3ZtZW)

99 Yay, India is spending for a mission to mars, while most of their country is still illiterate! LOL!!


Why? Are they setting up a call center there too?

Posted by: EC at February 22, 2013 02:23 PM (GQ8sn)

100
The parties have been operating this way for a long time, just now noticing? This is the appeal of guys like Paul, Cruz, Lee, Chavetz, etc. May not agree withthem on every point, but I feel like I can at least trust them. In all of Congress there are maybe a grand total of a dozen GOP officials I'd want to keep around.

Pipe dream of course but I think the party system is a failed model. Far too much power concentrated. The party model made sense when we were riding around on horses and had nothing but local newspapers to work with. Now a party in a faraway land can click a mouse and blast advertising anywhere and influence elections. What's the point of a party at all? The centralized Republican party should not be influencing the election in my district here in TX. Neither party is concerned with our interests.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 02:23 PM (HS3dy)

101 88 Human beings tend to take the path of least resistance.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:23 PM (dBYCN)

102 I'd wish you guys would start your New Party already so we can get this over with one way or the other.

I seriously believe this is the optimal time for it to be created and possible success. It will though be without my participation since I disagree with this strategy.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:24 PM (m2CN7)

103 The Tea Party is here for like 3 years and some people are just flabbergasted that the GOP hasn't become a TruCon organization by now.

Posted by: Hobojerky at February 22, 2013 02:24 PM (XJrUZ)

104 There's probably a great faux quote from Confucius here but it's Friday and I'm tired. ("Bureaucrat push paper because paper not push back?" No, that's not it.)

Posted by: Confucius, who probably didn't actually say that at February 22, 2013 02:24 PM (RD7QR)

105 97 Not to mention a majority in abject poverty.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:25 PM (dBYCN)

106 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 02:15 PM (xN73L)

The ONLY person who could have told the Military, to enter a Sovereign Nation who we are NOT at War with?

The President.... not Sec State... not Sec Defense... and he was apparently otherwise occupied...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 22, 2013 02:25 PM (lZBBB)

107 OT: Same as it ever was.

Paul Ehrlich: Still Only a 10 Percent Chance of Averting Starvation-Caused Collapse of Civilization

From an article of his published today.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:25 PM (XUKZU)

108 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 02:15 PM (xN73L)

But then the question becomes.... did anyone call up the Prezzy and ASK?

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 22, 2013 02:25 PM (lZBBB)

109 102 Yes,I think it would likely simply fragment the right(further).

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:25 PM (dBYCN)

110 True. Take Hagel. He once was on the sharp point of a very long stick, For a short time. A loong time ago. When he was very young. Now, I honor him for his service, BUT, his service did not prepare him to be the wielder of that long stick. All it prepared him to be was a critic of the way the stick was wielded. Back then. A looong time ago. Through the perceptions of a very young grunt. And he's obviously not learned anything of use in the intervening years.

Yet Democrats, who seemingly share his so-called 'values', insist on hanging this ill-prepared dunce around Obama's (and our) neck, just because Obama wants him. They are doing a disservice to our country, our armed forces AND our ill-advised President.

All in accordance to "Iron Law of Bureaucracy".

Like Baldy said:
75
This is why Democrats are so successful- they are the bureaucracy, no matter who is in office.

Posted by: starboardhelm at February 22, 2013 02:26 PM (hHgxI)

111 This is John Boyd's question to anyone he allowed to be part of his mafia: "Do you want to be somebody or do you want to do something?"

Posted by: Sunflower at February 22, 2013 02:26 PM (6ycAG)

112 Ghosts in the Machine.

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:27 PM (xmcEQ)

113 >>>I'd wish you guys would start your New Party already so we can get this over with one way or the other.

I think its here, just that its classic conservative, ie silent. Check registration trends, maybe.

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 02:27 PM (3ZtZW)

114 71 Rand submits plan to make sequestration cuts with no layoffs.
Smart? He really needs to hit home on Obama for all his scare mongering.


His plan is excellent, too.

-- No new hires for the bureaucracy...when people retire, don't hire new ones.

-- Tie the bureaucratic pay scale to the Private Sector...no more higher pay for doing the same thing that someone in the private sector does for less.

-- Provide incentives for department managers to cut their budgets...when they cut their budgets, they get a raise.

Good stuff.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:27 PM (eyJSG)

115 Paul Ehrlich: Still Only a 10 Percent Chance of Averting Starvation-Caused Collapse of Civilization

Moar Food Stamps!

Posted by: t-bird at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (FcR7P)

116 My wife is going to India this summer, despite my concerns. She's traveled plenty, but that place for two weeks sounds like torture. I've only read about India and that's good enough for me. If it's half as poor/dirty/crowded as I think, she'll regret it.

Posted by: lincolntf at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (ZshNr)

117 Paul, Cruz, Lee, Chavetz, etc. May not agree withthem on every point, but I feel like I can at least trust them.

That's the hope, yet see Kasich, Jon and Scott, Rick.

Very few resist the dark side.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (p/cQy)

118 Margarita DeVille-
please return to the previous thread and answer the many questions concerning chicken eye lenses, and uses of same.

Posted by: pep at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (YXmuI)

119 I'm heading back to US after two weeks away. I'm only partly joking when I say I fear what latest douchy, what- the- fuckery has beset my Patria.

Posted by: fastfreefall at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (ngjEQ)

120 From the National Review (1989): "O’Sullivan’s First Law: All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing. I cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church. The reason is, of course, that people who staff such bodies tend to be the sort who don’t like private profit, business, making money, the current organization of society, and, by extension, the Western world. At which point Michels’s Iron Law of Oligarchy takes over—and the rest follows."

Posted by: Huusker at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (PaKLC)

121 My wife is going to India this summer, despite my concerns.

Tell her to avoid taking the bus.

Posted by: EC at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (GQ8sn)

122 I think many in the GOP are like the Washington Generals (that's the team than plays the Harlem Globetrotters). They aren't supposed to win and they're OK with that because the Globetrotters will always need an opponent. They probably get paid OK to be on the Generals and they stay in nice hotels etc.

Posted by: zmdavid at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (dVOYY)

123 >>>I was just thinking that, if people are insistent on starting a third
party -- something they do in fact seem insistent on -- it would be
better to do so NOW rather than waiting forever on it. Let's get the
clock running on being out of power for 20 years.


Boy that whole line of thinking needs a fat IfTheRepublicLastsThatLong qualifier tacked onto it. If liberals have unfettered governance for 2 decades we are going to have real totalitarianism (the single party all other parties illegal kind) or open civil war. I see no other road.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:29 PM (0q2P7)

124 "But that was because the Democrat Party split. "

You think that clown car the current Democrats call a party is going to hold together? I don't.

Obama's already got net negatives among college age yoots... something about not having any friggin' jobs or something like that.

According to something Insty ran this morning he's now more unpopular with that group than any other demographic besides over-65s.


Posted by: SCOAMF Search Committee at February 22, 2013 02:29 PM (Ale7o)

125 Romeo, what I don't get is why tankers and c2 werent launched while they waited for Obama. I would have had the better part a brigade flying figure eights over the med all night.

Posted by: Jean at February 22, 2013 02:29 PM (XwRIg)

126 If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to the new"right wing extremist party".And of course the GOP will help them.

Perhaps, but it can work


Nope. Look what happened to the Tea Party.

What happened in Canada was that the Socialists got so much power, they ended up having to also be the ones who started austerity measures.

There are actually Canadians who now think that you can have socialism with fiscal conservatism.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 22, 2013 02:29 PM (T0NGe)

127 Paul Ehrlich: Still Only a 10 Percent Chance of Averting Starvation-Caused Collapse of Civilization

You'd think he'd off himself if he actually believed that.

Posted by: Waterhouse at February 22, 2013 02:29 PM (mO9O5)

128 So, what you are saying is that having an amorphous group like the Tea Party with no organization and only shared goals is the way to go. I knew you would come around, Ace. It was only a matter of time.

Seriously, the Founding Fathers knew all of this. That is why they said our liberty would have to be periodically renewed with the blood of patriots. And it is also why people are making the last stand around gun rights. They want to maintain that option for when things become unbearable. Everyone understands the subtext of what is happening on both sides. No one wants to come out and say it though... at least no one at the top.

Institutions always become increasingly corrupt and increasingly powerful. By definition only people who believe in the accrual and usage of power work in such places and they gnaw away at the underpinnings of a free society day and night until the whole edifice collapses.

Posted by: Voluble at February 22, 2013 02:30 PM (qYvEa)

129 I agree, if we (conservatives) are going to be without any representation for the next 8, 16 or 20 years, we may as well get to it on the new party.

Again, read this over at Forbes:

http://tinyurl.com/bzt8mq9

excerpt 1
or generations, the Republican Party had presented itself as the political vehicle for Americans whose opposition to ever-bigger government financed by ever-higher taxes makes them a “country class.” Yet modern Republican leaders, with the exception of the Reagan Administration, have been partners in the expansion of government, indeed in the growth of a government-based “ruling class.” They have relished that role despite their voters. Thus these leaders gradually solidified their choice to no longer represent what had been their constituency, but to openly adopt the identity of junior partners in that ruling class. By repeatedly passing bills that contradict the identity of Republican voters and of the majority of Republican elected representatives, the Republican leadership has made political orphans of millions of Americans. In short, at the outset of 2013 a substantial portion of America finds itself un-represented, while Republican leaders increasingly represent only themselves.


excerpt 2
It is impossible to overstate the importance of American education’s centralization, intellectual homogenization and partisanship in the formation of the ruling class’ leadership.

excerpt 3
Republican leaders neither parry the insults nor vilify their Democratic counterparts in comparable terms because they do not want to beat the ruling class, but to join it in solving the nation’s problems. How did they come to cut such pathetic figures?

It demonstrates a 3rd party possibility.
Hegemonic power.
The unprotected and unrepresented citizens.

And, a nice small history lesson.

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:30 PM (LpQbZ)

130 Posted by: lincolntf at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (ZshNr)

India.... like most of Indonesia... is hit and miss....

Parts are like going back to the dark ages.... parts are very very modern...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 22, 2013 02:30 PM (lZBBB)

131 I cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church.


The ACLU was always left wing, bad example. It was founded by communists to subvert the US. An action it is still performing.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 02:30 PM (53z96)

132 lincolntf

It is. Make sure she gets shots before she leaves and has lots of antiobotics with her on hand

Posted by: L, elle at February 22, 2013 02:30 PM (0PiQ4)

133 'The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.'
The most important question to answer is; why?

Posted by: Steve D at February 22, 2013 02:30 PM (p9ikY)

134 My wife is going to India this summer, despite my concerns.

Tell her to avoid taking the bus.

And sleeping, in other then 5 star hotels.

Posted by: Jean at February 22, 2013 02:31 PM (XwRIg)

135 At least Pournelle writes kick ass SF.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 22, 2013 01:53 PM (dTGOB)



I'm late to the party. SF?

ShaqFu?

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:31 PM (xmcEQ)

136 OT, but RE: PurpAv's sidebar link about Zambia seizing the coal mine from the Chinese, why do I think the seizure was less about this:

Zambia seizes control of Chinese-owned mine amid safety fears


And more about this:


As well as the safety issues, (Zambian mining minister) Mr Mukanga also stated that the company had failed to pay royalties or properly declare how much coal was produced.


It's always about the money, people. Always, always. The safety angle just plays better in the press.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:31 PM (4df7R)

137 127 Paul Ehrlich: Still Only a 10 Percent Chance of Averting Starvation-Caused Collapse of Civilization

You'd think he'd off himself if he actually believed that.
Posted by: Waterhouse at February 22, 2013 02:29 PM (mO9O5)

No, he thinks he'll survive because, you know, he's so very special.

Posted by: joncelli at February 22, 2013 02:31 PM (RD7QR)

138 Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:27 PM (eyJSG)

I agree. Very good stuff but this is the temporary self correction of bureaucracy that I was referring. If enacted, it would last only temporarily in relative terms.

It still needs to be done and on a regular basis.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:31 PM (m2CN7)

139 Good stuff.



Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:27 PM (eyJSG)


Well shit, that's almost like fucking Capitalism!

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (da5Wo)

140 Been saying this for years. Govt sets up bureaucracy for whatever, and the bulk of the money is spent on sending the employees to sensitivity training, bennies, Las Vegas conferences, etc while fractions of pennies actually trickle towards their stated goals.

Posted by: Jypsea Rose is @AmericanGypsea at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (dDQqO)

141
Its gonna take a collapse to do it, I believe. And its gonna be painful, but I hope on the other side, its 1787 America and not 1929 Germany.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (p/cQy)

142 >>>Paul Ehrlich: Still Only a 10 Percent Chance of Averting Starvation-Caused Collapse of Civilization

You know, I actually agree, quasi agree with that statement. In that
1. Civilization will collapse.
2. There will be mass starvation.

I just disagree about what causes what.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (0q2P7)

143 THE prime directive of any bureaucracy is self-preservation. Performance of mission is strictly incidental.

The second most important directive of any bureaucracy is to expand budget/resources whenever possible, even if not needed for mission.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (/gHaE)

144 135 He writes Science Fiction.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (dBYCN)

145 I'm late to the party. SF?

ShaqFu?
Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:31 PM (xmcEQ)

Science fiction. And with all due respect to EoJ, he hasn't done anything good since the last Falkenberg novel.

Posted by: joncelli at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (RD7QR)

146 Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:30 PM (LpQbZ)


Last time I checked... a couple of years back... at least 1/3 of the electorate was registered as Indepenent, or Unafiliated..... my guess is the numbers are bigger now.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (lZBBB)

147 I assume she'll be in the hinterlands, looking at old pilgrimage routes, churches, temples, whatnot. I guess I'll put faith in the guide/travel services to keep them relatively safe/comfortable, but that's a big "relatively".

Posted by: lincolntf at February 22, 2013 02:33 PM (ZshNr)

148 "The most important question to answer is; why?"

Because doers are more interested in doing than "managing".

Real teachers want to teach, not fuck around on bullshit grievance committees.

Think about your average home owner's association -- almost exclusively made up of worthless individuals who accomplish nothing at all in the real world.

Posted by: SCOAMF Search Committee at February 22, 2013 02:33 PM (Ale7o)

149 If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to the new"right wing extremist party"

excerpt 4

That trouble is daunting. Whoever chooses to represent the country class might have right and reason on their side. Nevertheless they can be certain that the ruling class media will not engage those reasons but vilify the persons who voice them as ignorant, irresponsible, etc. Asserting moral-intellectual superiority, chastising and intimidating rather than persuading opponents is by no means the least of the ruling class’ powers. “It’s the contempt, stupid!” But the Republican leadership has proved stupid enough to deal with the contempt as the Pharisee in the Temple dealt with sin: “I thank thee Lord that I am not like other Republicans…”

Some Democrats seem to believe that taking these Republicans unto themselves while deeming the remainder “unworthy,” withdrawing “tolerance toward [their] regressive opinions,” will crush serious opposition. Maybe. Surely however, incorporating the Republican Establishment into the ruling class leaves the dissidents free coherently to pursue their own vision, and with a monopoly of opposition. In two-party systems, the opposition eventually wins. Considering that, according to a 2013 Pew poll, 53% of Americans view the government as a threat to their welfare and liberties (up from 36% in 1995 and that a third of those who feel that way are Democrats); considering that government’s very legitimacy decreases as government grows in size, that victory may come sooner rather than later.

To Represent

Because of the aforementioned, the political representation of America’s country class is fragmentary. But the uniformity of the ruling class’ pressure on the fragments is pressing them toward similar responses and perhaps unity.

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:33 PM (LpQbZ)

150 My wife is going to India this summer, despite my concerns. She's traveled plenty, but that place for two weeks sounds like torture. I've only read about India and that's good enough for me. If it's half as poor/dirty/crowded as I think, she'll regret it.
Posted by: lincolntf at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (ZshNr)


Tell her to keep her eyes open and practice a lot of situational awareness.

And may I ask why she's going to India in the SUMMER? Not that it's a picnic at any time of year, but summer seems to be asking for punishment. Is this trip for business or recreation?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:34 PM (4df7R)

151 My wife is going to India this summer, despite my concerns.


Tell her not to show fear to the macaques, no matter what.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 22, 2013 02:34 PM (8ZskC)

152
"Yes,I think it would likely simply fragment the right(further)."
This is the problem indeed, but what do you propose? If the GOP is synonymous with the Democrat Partywhat other option is there? As a matter of principle I'm not going to vote for them. Not going to send the party any more money. Would you play for a sports team where you hate most of the players, despise the coach and the owners and always lose your games anyway? Waste of time.
I had a mailer come in the other day from the GOP asking for money. Came with a prepaid envelope. I wrote a nasty letter saying I would not give them another dime until they enacted true spending cuts and got rid of Boehner. Put it in the prepaid envelope and shot it back.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 02:34 PM (HS3dy)

153 Its gonna take a collapse to do it, I believe. And its gonna be painful, but I hope on the other side, its 1787 America and not 1929 Germany.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (p/cQy)


And the difference will be 'IF' the Civilian population, is armed in a Militarily significant manner... ie.... assault weapons.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 22, 2013 02:34 PM (lZBBB)

154 So Ehrlich wants his ass kicked again

Posted by: The Reverent Borlaug at February 22, 2013 02:35 PM (VRCBg)

155 151 I wouldn't go to the bathroom while I was there either
(Seinfeld reference)

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:35 PM (dBYCN)

156 97(sidebar) Yay, India is spending for a mission to mars, while most of their country is still illiterate! LOL!!Posted by: jt2 at February 22, 2013 02:23 PM (U3CzV)

They're hoping they can find some martians to rape to death.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 02:35 PM (+xmn4)

157 Science fiction. And with all due respect to EoJ, he hasn't done anything good since the last Falkenberg novel.

Posted by: joncelli at February 22, 2013 02:32 PM (RD7QR)

Ah. Thanks.

That would explain why I didn't know it. I'm not really into SF.

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:35 PM (xmcEQ)

158 "And its gonna be painful, but I hope on the other side, its 1787 America and not 1929 Germany."

I think it's more likely to be 49 BC Rome than either of those.

Rome had a long run after thatl; it didn't collapse for centuries. It just wasn't a republic any more.

Posted by: SCOAMF Search Committee at February 22, 2013 02:35 PM (Ale7o)

159 Should have been Revenant Borlaug for you rules mechanics

Posted by: Jean at February 22, 2013 02:36 PM (VRCBg)

160 In the summer because it's a bunch of professors, I guess. I suppose I should ask her for an itinerary, they've been planning it for years.

Posted by: lincolntf at February 22, 2013 02:36 PM (ZshNr)

161 >>>Iron Law of Bureaucracy

"we do not sow"

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:36 PM (0q2P7)

162 It's true. The only way to avoid this is to deliberately yoke together factions with opposing interests and goals. The checks and balances on power require competition and conflict be directed against other interests in the government. The Federalist papers spend a lot of time on this topic and explain why our system of government was designed to operate as it was.

And the only way to fix it is to, once again, turn groups of powerful interests within the government against one another. I have hope that this will happen once the money starts to dry up. Politicians rethink their principles when they don't get the graft and bribes to which they've become accustomed. Yet another reason to favor sequestration.

Posted by: GalosGann at February 22, 2013 02:36 PM (T3KlW)

163 In good times and bad, there will always be fat ugly broads to fight each other over a guy with a mullet on TV.

Posted by: The Iron Law of Jerry Springer at February 22, 2013 02:36 PM (8ZskC)

164 Think about your average home owner's association --
almost exclusively made up of worthless individuals who accomplish
nothing at all in the real world.



Posted by: SCOAMF Search Committee at February 22, 2013 02:33 PM (Ale7o)



HOA's are communism starter kits. They should be banned for eternity.

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:36 PM (xmcEQ)

165 If you think the MFM savages the GOP wait until you see what they do to
the new"right wing extremist party".And of course the GOP will help
them.


Doesn't matter. The MSM could be totally objective about it (shut up, I said could) and with no opposition from the GOP.

And it would still fail. Hard.

This idea that a new, True Conservative party would win over the public is nothing short of fantasy. One derived from spending too much time in the comfort of conservative blogs and other such company.

The actions of our politicians aren't being driven from the top down. They're being driven from the bottom up. Unfortunately you and I are simply too small a minority to have influence.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 22, 2013 02:37 PM (SY2Kh)

166 The GOP (and Rove et al) fit this to a tee. They make sure the most entrenched apparatchik members are favored to remain in office because they will not rock the boat and risk perturbing the stability of their fellow apparatchiks. The never support any outsiders, even when there are no viable alternatives.


It is a PARTY system, comrade, and although you are forced to pay for the Party, you won't be seeing an invitation to the dance anytime soon!

Posted by: Hrothgar at February 22, 2013 02:37 PM (Cnqmv)

167 My wife is going to India this summer, despite my concerns.

she should be prepared to give up all personal space

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:37 PM (LpQbZ)

168 Bad government can cause mass starvation. Ehrlich can still be a prophet if Obama gets his way. Watch what Obama's doing with the food supply.

Posted by: zmdavid at February 22, 2013 02:38 PM (dVOYY)

169 I talked to the guy before the vote and *boy* was I shocked. I would
have dragged the fucker out into the streets and pummeled him but for -
you know - laws and such.



See, the law worked as intended; an asshole was free to be an asshole and your correct and proper response to him was inhibited.

Probably you didn't know that was the one of the intents of the law - but I think if you investigate the legal system closely - you will find that is indeed the case.

Remember the legal bureaucracy is under the rule of the iron law of bureaucracy also.

Posted by: An Observation at February 22, 2013 02:38 PM (ylhEn)

170 she should be prepared to give up all personal space

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:37 PM (LpQbZ)


And smell like a baboons bum.

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:38 PM (xmcEQ)

171 165 I reluctantly agree.Which means DOOM.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:38 PM (dBYCN)

172 As the late, great Ric Locke used to say, "The ants find the sugar." If you establish a position of power, however nominal, and completely remove the risk that comes along with exercises of power, those positions will eventually be filled by the most mendacious, small-minded people available as it caters to their natural risk-aversion and lust for power.

This is what Eric Hoffer alluded to when he said that what begins as a great cause always turns into a racket.

Posted by: Komissar Vladimir at February 22, 2013 02:39 PM (sBegS)

173

This idea had occurred to me:

This representation is happening by default. It is aided by the internet, which makes it possible to spread ideas to which the educational Establishment gives short shrift and which the ruling class media shun. In short, the internet helps undermine the ruling class’ near-homogenization of American intellectual life, its closing of the American mind. Not by reason but by bureaucratic force majeure had America’s educational Establishment isolated persons who deviate from it, cutting access to a sustaining flow of ideas that legitimize their way of life. But the internet allows marginalized dissenters to reason with audiences of millions. Ideas have consequences. No surprise then that more and more of Republican elected officials seem to think less like their leaders and more like their voters.

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:39 PM (LpQbZ)

174 >>>Its gonna take a collapse to do it, I believe. And its gonna be painful,

I'm not disagreeing with the prediction but this is saying "Its gonna takeliver failure before I stop drinking". Seriously You Guys. Stop drinking.

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 02:39 PM (3ZtZW)

175 Think about your average home owner's association -- almost exclusively made up of worthless individuals who accomplish nothing at all in the real world.
Posted by: SCOAMF Search Committee at February 22, 2013 02:33 PM (Ale7o)

This is the part I don't understand. If you don't like the leadership and you have the opportunity to take a leadership role but refuse, I believe you have figuratively given up your right to whine and bitch and the fault for the situation lies with both parties.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:39 PM (m2CN7)

176 MWR, they forgot the other comments he made off the record, about how China doesn't have any carrier battlegroups so they don't care.

Posted by: Jean at February 22, 2013 02:39 PM (+NNlC)

177
All of this discussion is one of the reasons I like a flat tax, it absolutely destroys these crony bastards in DC. Also the reason why it or a "fair tax" will never come to pass.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (p/cQy)

178 This thread is stale.

Can I Haz New Thread, Pleeez?

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (xmcEQ)

179 138 Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:27 PM (eyJSG)
I agree. Very good stuff but this is the temporary self correction of bureaucracy that I was referring. If enacted, it would last only temporarily in relative terms.
It still needs to be done and on a regular basis.



Temporary?....Not necessarily.

Rand seems to understand that once something is passed...and ennacted...it soon becomes carved in stone.

This is how we've gotten in the mess we're in, right?
The Dems have been gradually doing the things that are now fucking things up.
They've done it in dribs and drabs, over the last 30 years.

Now, if we could just slip in a 10 Year Term Limit to all bureaucrat jobs...then we could destroy the lure of 'job security' that lures the looter class to thosegovernment jobs.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (eyJSG)

180 I seriously believe this is the optimal time for it to be created and possible success. It will though be without my participation since I disagree with this strategy. Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:24 PM (m2CN7)__ ___ ___ ____ ___ And I wish you "real Republicans" would merge with the Democrats and get that over with. I'll even assist.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (1Y+hH)

181 Man.... Ric Locke. What a sad story. Only the good.

What about The Militia Party or The Motorcycle Party?

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (b5QQF)

182 "Tell the principal your sonneeds an assistive technology device which enables him to perform his school work, enter information, and generate reports for teachers." This was followed by "No, I'm not kidding - say exactly that - he'll recommend a laptop."


UGH! That's quintessentially bureaucratic lingo and function.


That's the type of shit you have to write when justifying something you might obviously need in the DoD. Then, after you've carefully crafted these inflated justifications and patted yourself on the back after they've been approved, 30 days before the end of the FY the comptrollers office calls down and says, we've got an extra 200k, throw something together real quick before we lose it.


And that's how everybody ends up with some sweet new GSA office furniture every year.


Writ large, it's how we get 16T in debt.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (yCvxi)

183 167 My wife is going to India this summer, despite my concerns.

she should be prepared to give up all personal space
Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:37 PM (LpQbZ)

This would bother me the most. My big complaint about Manhattan is that I always felt hemmed in and I imagine India is even worse.

Posted by: joncelli at February 22, 2013 02:41 PM (RD7QR)

184
Still looking for your solution Bigby. I say there is none.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:41 PM (p/cQy)

185 The lack of personal space thing would drive me nuts. I would be constantly pissed off.

Posted by: lincolntf at February 22, 2013 02:42 PM (ZshNr)

186 :::157 Science fiction. And with all due respect to EoJ, he hasn't done anything good since the last Falkenberg novel.:::

RINO.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 22, 2013 02:42 PM (dTGOB)

187 183 Manhattan is probably like Idaho compared to Indian cities.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2013 02:42 PM (dBYCN)

188 What happened in Canada was that the Socialists got so much power, they ended up having to also be the ones who started austerity measures.

Correct. The Liberal Party started using many parts of the Reform Party (ie. conservative) platform.

It doesn't precisely fit here, but this sort of goes along the lines of Milton Friedman's 'creating an environment where the wrong peopleare forced todo the right thing'.

There are actually Canadians who now think that you can have socialism with fiscal conservatism.

There will never be a shortage of idiots.

Regardless, I'm not saying it's simple, nor am I saying it can work for America. I'm just pointing out that it can work.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 22, 2013 02:42 PM (BrQrN)

189 All of this discussion is one of the reasons I like a
flat tax, it absolutely destroys these crony bastards in DC. Also the
reason why it or a "fair tax" will never come to pass.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (p/cQy)

What good is power if you can't punish your enemies and reward your friends, preferably both at the same time!

Posted by: Hrothgar at February 22, 2013 02:43 PM (Cnqmv)

190 The GOP (and Rove et al) fit this to a tee. They make sure the most entrenched apparatchik members are favored to remain in office because they will not rock the boat and risk perturbing the stability of their fellow apparatchiks. The never support any outsiders, even when there are no viable alternatives.It is a PARTY system, comrade, and although you are forced to pay for the Party, you won't be seeing an invitation to the dance anytime soon!
Posted by: Hrothgar at February 22, 2013 02:37 PM (Cnqmv)

Again what part of the story of Rove's PAC supporting many tea party candidates and specifically supporting Rubio when he was 40% down in the polls? We will never be able to accomplish anything until the requirement for 100% compliance to an individual's viewpoint.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:43 PM (m2CN7)

191

A new party is likely to arise because the public holds both Republicans and Democrats responsible for the nation’s unsustainable course.

...

To represent the country class, to set about reversing the ills the ruling class imposed on America, a party would have to confront the ruling class’ pretenses, with unity and force comparable to that by which these were imposed.

...

Far be it from a party that represents the country class to ape what it abhors by imposing punitive measures through party line votes covered by barrages of insults: few in the country class’ parts want to become a ruling class. Yet the country class, to defend itself, to cut down the forest of subsidies and privileges that choke America, to curb the arrogance of modern government, cannot shy away from offending the ruling class’ intellectual and moral pretenses. Events themselves show how dysfunctional the ruling class is. But only a political party worthy of the name can marshal the combination of reason, brutal images, and consistency adequately to represent America’s country class.


there is hope

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:43 PM (LpQbZ)

192 This would bother me the most. My big complaint about Manhattan is that I always felt hemmed in and I imagine India is even worse.
Posted by: joncelli at February 22, 2013 02:41 PM (RD7QR)


I imagine it depends on the specific part of India in which you find yourself. If you're in one of the larger urban centers then it would be MISERABLE. But I assume that the more rural regions are less likely to be packed shoulder to shoulder. Of course, the more rural regions are also the ones more likely to be lacking in things like flush toilets, air conditioning, and electricity.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:43 PM (4df7R)

193 >>>I'm not disagreeing with the prediction but this is saying "Its gonna
takeliver failure before I stop drinking". Seriously You Guys. Stop
drinking.

We can stop all we want. That won't help. It's going to take liver failure for the 53% to stop drinking. And that's what counts.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:44 PM (0q2P7)

194 this is Robert Michel's 'IRON LAW OF OLIGARCHY'


read that in grad school a long long time ago, I did. Swiss dude wrote an 800-page book all about it. Boring, it was

Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 22, 2013 02:44 PM (Dll6b)

195 The Iron Law is all too true.

For my 25 years in the bureaucracy, I kept thinking it was just a particular boss or particular office.

Nope. The bad guys took over, every time.

Posted by: PJ at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (ZWaLo)

196 Hot chicks on The Amazing Race always seem to get groped on trains in India.

Posted by: Waterhouse at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (mO9O5)

197
186
:::157 Science fiction. And with all due respect to EoJ, he hasn't done anything good since the last Falkenberg novel.:::



----------------------------

RINO.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 22, 2013 02:42 PM (dTGOB)



See, I would've gone with FAG there, but...

*looks around*

.....I don't think we're allowed to do that anymore.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (da5Wo)

198 What about The Militia Party or The Motorcycle Party?

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (b5QQF)


The Rent's too damn high party.

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (xmcEQ)

199 165 Hollowpoint,

Maybe....then again the Communists were ~3% of the population in 17 tops...

the Sons of Liberty and revolutionary types who wanted a DoI were ~15% of pop....


the first step in asserting your wishes is deciding finally to look the fuckers in the eye and demand "no YOU move."

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (LRFds)

200
"And I wish you "real Republicans" would merge with the Democrats and get that over with. I'll even assist."

Second the motion. I think this is why creating a 3rd party could have a chance of success too. Get enough people moved over to this third party and the GOP will be a lifeless shell. Will force people to pick sides in the new party or go to the Dems.

And ya never know, we could end up pulling people from the Dems too if the cards are played right. A lot of the libertarian issues like ending the marijuana war and shutting down bases in Japan and Korea and Germany are spot on. We are overextended militarily. End all foreign aid, period. If we did stuff like this we could probably shave 10% or moreoff the Democrat party. There are some Democrats who have jobs and don't like high taxes and debt spending.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (HS3dy)

201 The GOP (and Rove et al) fit this to a tee. They make sure the most entrenched apparatchik members are favored to remain in office

forbes.com

The End Of The Karl Rove Death Grip Signals A Reagan Renaissance

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (LpQbZ)

202 I believe you have figuratively given up your right to whine and bitch and the fault for the situation lies with both parties. Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:39 PM (m2CN7) Bullshit. The constitution doesn't require participation in order to keep one's right to free speech. You don't understand much about inalienable rights, America and freedom, which explains a lot about your other positions.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (1Y+hH)

203 And I wish you "real Republicans" would merge with the Democrats and get that over with. I'll even assist.
Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (1Y+hH)

Yeah and Clarence Thomas is not really black. You been taking lessons from Al Sharpton?

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (m2CN7)

204 >>>So what kind of organizations are NOT bureaucratic, ultimately speaking? Besides ad hoc things like blog comment threads?

Any organization where personality matters more than procedure. Families. Your church parish maybe. Your circle of friends. Small business. The small farm. Your neighborhood. Pretty much all of the great things about America.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (0q2P7)

205 This is the part I don't understand. If you don't like the leadership and you have the opportunity to take a leadership role but refuse, I believe you have figuratively given up your right to whine and bitch and the fault for the situation lies with both parties.

I had friends who tried that - they got a position of power in the HOA and then had their souls crushed and had to get out because HOAs are inherently evil.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (B/VB5)

206 The answer to HOA is to not buy a house that has deed covenants that require you to follow the HOA rules. OR any deed covenants at all.


The only thing mine has in it is access to meter readers, mail personnel, and others who have a necessity to come to the house.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (53z96)

207 50 I was just thinking that, if people are insistent on starting a third party -- something they do in fact seem insistent on -- it would be better to do so NOW rather than waiting forever on it. Let's get the clock running on being out of power for 20 years.
======
Try closer to three years, Ace.
Look at how quickly the Republican party harnessed the disaffection of the voters in a far less connected and mobile world.
But, I believe we can take back the Republican Party.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (VjL9S)

208 All this talk about "Iron Laws" has made me want to propose my own.

How about "MWR's Iron Law of AoSHQ: All trolls are Average Joe."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:47 PM (4df7R)

209 for proof, iffn you want it, google 'iron law of oligarchy' and it'll take you straight to Michel.


anyone in any job has the primary goal of securing his job. Sometimes the Obvious needs to be examined, and explained.

Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 22, 2013 02:47 PM (Dll6b)

210
Yeah and Clarence Thomas is not really black. You been taking lessons from Al Sharpton?


Non sequiter as usual.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:47 PM (1Y+hH)

211 Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (1Y+hH)

You know the meaning of figuratively? Quit reading my posts then numbnuts.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:47 PM (m2CN7)

212 118--- Margarita DeVille-
please return to the previous thread and answer the many questions concerning chicken eye lenses, and uses of same.
Posted by: pep at February 22, 2013 02:28 PM (YXmuI)

DONE! (To the best of my inadequate ability.)

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 22, 2013 02:47 PM (C8mVl)

213 How about "MWR's Iron Law of AoSHQ: All trolls are Average Joe."
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:47 PM (4df7R)

You forgot "who sucks cock by choice." AOSHQ Stylebook and all.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 22, 2013 02:48 PM (DrWcr)

214 You forgot "who sucks cock by choice." AOSHQ Stylebook and all.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 22, 2013 02:48 PM (DrWcr)


You're right. So amended.

MWR'S Iron Law of AoSHQ: All trolls are Average Joe, who sucks cock by choice.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (4df7R)

215 I had friends who tried that - they got a position of power in the HOA and then had their souls crushed and had to get out because HOAs are inherently evil.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 22, 2013 02:46 PM (B/VB5)

I've had the opposite experience but yes I agree that can, has and will continue to happen. But they tried.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (m2CN7)

216 Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:43 PM (m2CN7)

Apparently, I need to do some research if you think that Rove has redeeming qualities (re Rubio) then I may indeed have misjudged him. On balance, however, my internal summary of Rove is that he is primarily interested in supporting what is best for Rove and his ilk and would sacrifice the GOP and conservatives to do so.


And I agree that 100% purity while a laudable goal, is also a laughable goal!

Posted by: Hrothgar at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (Cnqmv)

217 "In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy
itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the
bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and
sometimes are eliminated entirely."

Read Mancur Olson.

None of the decline in the fortunes of the United States in recent decades will come as any surprise to those who have done so.

Essentially, his thesis is that it is virtually impossible to prevent factional interests from slowly and incrementally grabbing control of government and using it for their own aggrandizement.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (gqT4g)

218 Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (da5Wo)

FAG.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (p/cQy)

219 Jerry stole my Theory of Institutionalization from over 30 years ago. It has nothing to do with "bureaucracy" itself, it even happens on small scales.

For example, a local chess club. Most of the members just want to play, that's why they joined, but they need someone to collect dues to pay for rent/cleanup/sets, etc. So usually one or two of the weaker players get drafted as officers to manage that crap. They start organizing fundraisers, etc. Before you know it the needs of "the Club" are being put before the purpose, which is just to play.

Garden Society, any group of humans tends to institutionalize, and it is all about the institution itself, its stated goals either forgotten or given token attention.

Posted by: Adjoran at February 22, 2013 02:50 PM (9uOra)

220 You know the meaning of figuratively? Quit reading my posts then numbnuts. Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 02:47 PM (m2CN7)Thanks for handing me the win, but I'll do whatever I please and you can deal with it or ignore me.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:50 PM (1Y+hH)

221 FAG.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (p/cQy)



Why are you calling BCochran a cigarette? *innocent head tilt and blinky eyes*

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:50 PM (4df7R)

222 But the internet allows marginalized dissenters to reason with audiences of millions. Ideas have consequences.

___________

I've always wondered if some weird phenomena like that happened to the Democrats.

A long time ago--some of us wondered--how many of their commenters are actually American?

There was an anti-American vibe--but it seemed "foreign" yet at the same time it never got any push back. It was welcomed--the self loathing American and Euro Trash--united in common cause!

Democrats now have demographics voting Democrat! as a sort of badge of ethnic identity--and they are moving more and more Left--they don't have to use logic to get their vote just identity.

Gates, Panetta, and now Hagel as Secretary of Defense--smell the trajectory burning-- downward.

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:51 PM (r2PLg)

223 FAG.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (p/cQy)


Fans Against Gordon?

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 02:51 PM (xmcEQ)

224
"I had friends who tried that - they got a position of power in the HOA and then had their souls crushed and had to get out because HOAs are inherently evil."

HOA - ROFL!!!
Move somewhere else. HOA is hardly a comparison to the Constitution and federal government. HOA is meant to be restrictive. Don't want to live by the country club them move somewhere else. I live in the woods outside my local city limit. I can shoot guns or do whatever the hell I want out here. I don't need building permits, I don't need permission to shoot fireworks or burn trash. Don't like the HOA, don't buy a home governed by one.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (HS3dy)

225 Teacher's unions, government bureaucracy. Even the Pentagon.

Private sector, too. Except that a businesses go bankrupt which stops the spread of the disease.

Posted by: t-bird at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (FcR7P)

226 "The actions of our politicians aren't being driven from the top down. They're being driven from the bottom up. Unfortunately you and I are simply too small a minority to have influence."
I actually disagree with this....I think there are a lot of "us" who feel there is no real difference between R and D and no longer give a shit to be used to give "bipartisan" cover to communist ideas.
Even if you ARE right....don't I have the right to vote for someone who, you know, actually REPRESENTS me? Why in the hell would I support someone who stands for the opposite of what I believe (even if it is homophobic, bible banging, racist etc as the so called "moderates" continue to push)

Posted by: FTIP at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (uPDcc)

227 WalrusRex's Iron law of Hot Chicks: No matter how hot the chick, if you actually get to know them, they are a pain in the ass.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (XUKZU)

228 yeah, Mancur Olson wrote a big-assed book about bureaucracy. Good times...


most people who write poli sci books need to work on their editing skills



Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (Dll6b)

229 edit:

A long time ago--some of us wondered--how many of their commenters (at Liberal sites scubas Daily Kos, etc) are actually American?

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (r2PLg)

230 >>>. A lot of the libertarian issues like ending the marijuana war and
shutting down bases in Japan and Korea and Germany are spot on.

MJ Voters are single issue. Once they get their woobie, you'll never see them again.

Libertarians need to read at least one serious topic on Metaphysics so they temper their free in all circumstances theology (theology because it isn't supported by any rational theory or practical example) with at least some theoretical idea of how a society obtains and maintains a free state.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (0q2P7)

231 Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 22, 2013 02:45 PM (da5Wo)FAG.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:49 PM (p/cQy)

He's a member of the Film Actors Guild? I thought EOJ was the theater major...

Posted by: Insomniac at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (DrWcr)

232 A long time ago--some of us wondered--how many of their commenters (at Liberal sites scubas Daily Kos, etc) are actually American?
Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (r2PLg)


I don't know why, but that particular autocorrect fail made me laugh WAY too much.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (4df7R)

233
polynikes


I find you to be too much Rousseau and not enough Paine.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (1Y+hH)

234
had to do it, low hanging fruit and all.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (p/cQy)

235 207...But, I believe we can take back the Republican Party.

Take back?
It's more conservative now than it ever has been.

Even Reagan couldn't get elected right now as a Republican.
He was 'squishy' on abortion, and is the only guy to have ever granted Amnesty.
He also raised our taxes, when he signed that Deficit Reduction bill in 1986...by taking away our Interest Deduction.

But I think that you're right...we can take the Republican party even further into conservative territory.
And stand firm on the gains that we've made.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (eyJSG)

236
"Apparently, I need to do some research if you think that Rove has redeeming qualities (re Rubio)"

Nah, Rove is just evil. And Rubio isn't looking like such a darling since this amnesty fiasco. I don't care what else Rubio does, tens of millions of new Democrat voters in the south? That's a fail you aren't allowed forgiveness for.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (HS3dy)

237 Let's get the clock running on being out of power for 20 years.

I don't see it as 20 years.

It's success measurement would be that it wipes out the current Republican Party -- or forces the current GOP to discard the fakes and join up with them.

This would need to happen quickly, or it wouldn't survive at all from the start.

Not just rebranding, but a return to the base mission.

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (LpQbZ)

238 So polynikes do I understand you right that to have a voice, I must assume a leadership role?


Not that I've ever had a problem assuming a leadership role, but I'm fairly certain that as a voter, my voice is just as valid as anyone else's.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (yCvxi)

239 MJ Voters are single issue.

***

For one thing, they've got an attention span of ten seconds.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (XUKZU)

240 232 A long time ago--some of us wondered--how many of their commenters (at Liberal sites scubas Daily Kos, etc) are actually American?
Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (r2PLg)

I don't know why, but that particular autocorrect fail made me laugh WAY too much.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (4df7R)

____________

LMAO! Damn it I don't even know or remember what the hell I tried to type there.

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (r2PLg)

241 They ( whoever They are ) intend to make the peoples and nations of the world into a shopping mall: Lots of choices, but we're all just selling sh*t


the question to consider is 'who owns the mall'?

Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (Dll6b)

242


Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (0q2P7)

Isn't freedom it's own end? Not electoral politics?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (xAtAj)

243 "scubas" what the %^$ was I even thinking?

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (r2PLg)

244 215 Polynikes,

my issues with HoA overreach,

1) the "holy covenant of God" bullshit is empowered to 'secure and maintain while increasing property values"

uh yeah fuckheads they dropped like stoned.

2) invariably petty fuckers with petty instincts wind up gravitating to power whether their hangups are left/right/flying spaghetti monster....

I am mostly in the 'leave me the fuck alone and why are you trying to micromanage my tree choice motherfucker when you failed at "job 1"?

3) their usual embrace of trying to play games with Mechanic's liens and such and use of money pools to lobby for further power for the entire concept....

Look at the end of the day there are demonstrable HoAs that are every bit as corrupt as the LE community has gotten in misuse of power thanks to seizure laws....

there *good leaders* in some HoAs but the entire concept is an extraConstitutional exercise based on interpretations of contract law I'd kill to have the Federal govt held to....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (LRFds)

245 The TSA example linked from Pournelle's site is also compelling.

Posted by: and irresolute at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (DBH1h)

246 "I live in the woods outside my local city limit. I can shoot guns or do whatever the hell I want out here. I don't need building permits, I don't need permission to shoot fireworks or burn trash."


Quit bragging, I'm getting jealous.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (yCvxi)

247 Don't like the HOA, don't buy a home governed by one.

My current house is HOA-free. My previous one that was, I bought when I was 24 and didn't know better. Getting threatened with a lawsuit for replacing my roof with shingles of the same make, model, and color repaired that lack of knowledge.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (B/VB5)

248 "In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control

The reason for this is that bureaucracies have NO CUSTOMERS.

This is the Economic Calculation problem. All economic decisions (i.e., how to spend your time and money, either as a producer or as a consumer) are all made according to the net costs and benefits of your various options.

In a free, voluntary society, economic calculation guides producers about what goods to produce. They can compare the amount people are willing to pay with the amount that it costs in order to deliver the goods to them. This simple comparison will tell you if your productivity decisions are economically viable and beneficial, or if they are yielding a net loss.

But government enterprises have no customers. People pay because they are taxed. They lose their houses if they do not pay.

As a result, government schools have NO economic information about whether their product (educational services) is economically viable or beneficial. They have no profit and no loss. If the school changes something about the way they produce their goods, taxed people still pay and pay, just as they always do.

In other words, taxation severs the essential connection between productivity and consumption.

That's the whole point of socializing things -- governments WANT to insulate themselves from consumer preferences. Schools find the burden of providing a good that people will VOLUNTARILY pay for to be ... annoying.

What criteria do bureaucracies have access to, in the absence of economic information? What do they base their decisions on, about what to produce and how much to pay in overhead, when they have no profit and loss to guide them?

Taxation has created an information vacuum.

What fills that vacuum? Once you have eliminated consumer preferences and economic information from your decision-making process, the only information that is left to guide you is POLITICAL information. The only thing that is left is the preferences of the people who run the place.

That's why schools tend to degrade in quality, and increase in cost, until the point that whole mess becomes a political embarrassment.

Political considerations are the only source of feedback they have.

Posted by: Phinn at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (oFH2D)

249 Oh!

scubas= such as

I hate autocorrect--but *it* started it.

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (r2PLg)

250 For one thing, they've got an attention span of ten seconds.
Posted by: WalrusRex at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (XUKZU)



Depends on what they're focused on. Give them a kaleidoscope and they'll be absorbed for HOURS.


Or, to lessen their attention span even more, just chuck a bag of Cheetos past their face; makes 'em scramble.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:57 PM (4df7R)

251 scubas" what the %^$ was I even thinking?
Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (r2PLg)


I think you were going for "such as." lol!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:57 PM (4df7R)

252 Hey, if we end the drug war, then maybe the druggies would stop bothering us about RON PAUL and stop funding RON PAUL BLIMPS?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 02:58 PM (xAtAj)

253 but I'm fairly certain that as a voter, my voice is just as valid as anyone else's.Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM (yCvxi)You have an inalienable right to free speech, your voting status, even your citizenshiphas nothing to do with that right.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 02:58 PM (1Y+hH)

254

It's the ROI from HOA fees that is the big scam.

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 02:58 PM (LpQbZ)

255 238 Burn the Witch,

correct in order for Sven J Olafson to have a moral right to be pissed off at the Neo-fascist fucktardery of some HoAs I must by necessity run for the office despite my happy membership in the "leave me the fuck alone unless I am flagrantly breaking the rules inarguably" party....

I don't have the best Lawn here in the development but it is in far better shape than the common areas the HoA is responsible for.....

I do have to clean up the dogshit in my yard despite the fact my Dog has been dead 14 years and is buried in Ohio......


"unsolved fucking mysteries"....

asshole motherfuckers.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 02:59 PM (LRFds)

256 OT: A tweet from IowaHawk that made me startle my cow-orkers:


#RejectedCereals Cap'n Crunch with Rum, Sodomy and the Lashberries

Posted by: joncelli at February 22, 2013 02:59 PM (RD7QR)

257 >>>Even Reagan couldn't get elected right now as a Republican.

What!? Are you just divorced from reality?

>>>He was 'squishy' on abortion
And Romney wasn't? Romney was pro-choice at one point. Reagan never was.

>>>and is the only guy to have ever granted Amnesty.
What about McCain? Did he just not get nominated?

>>>He also raised our taxes, when he signed that Deficit Reduction bill in 1986...by taking away our Interest Deduction.
After he lowered taxes by how much? Again looking at all the increases under Romney in Mass. How is Reagan to the left of Romney our nominee just 5 months ago?

Dude that is just magic thinking.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:59 PM (0q2P7)

258 I think it's more likely to be 49 BC Rome than either of those.

Rome had a long run after thatl; it didn't collapse for centuries. It just wasn't a republic any more.
======
Only because there were still lands and kingdoms they could conquer and bleed dry with taxes.
The shitheels planning to rule over the decline of America under the "end of the roman republic" model don't know that.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 22, 2013 03:00 PM (VjL9S)

259 A long time ago--some of us wondered--how many of their commenters (at Liberal sites scubas Daily Kos, etc) are actually American? Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (r2PLg)

I would love to know the answer to this. Although we could argue that regardless of country of residence they are not American.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:00 PM (+xmn4)

260 Are they hiring thought leaders? Because I need the work and, you know, it seems like we're going to need a lot of thought leaders in the years ahead.

Posted by: Senator Bob Menedez at February 22, 2013 03:00 PM (BuSM8)

261 251 scubas" what the %^$ was I even thinking?
Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:55 PM (r2PLg)

I think you were going for "such as." lol!
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 02:57 PM (4df7R)

_______________

Damn the scubas--they are the problem I'm SERIOUS YOU GUYS!

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 03:00 PM (r2PLg)

262
Governmental Darwinism--have a problem? create a bureaucracy to "fix" it. Immediately thereafter, the "biological imperative" of the organization becomes the passing on of its genes into the future (continuous, largerfunding), if not the next generation--fixing the "problem" would render the organization irrelevant, if not useless HAVE to continue "the line".
The US Army, at the fall of the Soviet Union, is the only governmentorganization I can recall that BEGAN a voluntary shrinkage in our history, far as I know--proud to have been affiliated, in that period.
I believe this guy was my first SciFi read around 1980 (memorable, in any event)---The Janniseries. Found his follow on around 1990--it kinda petered out, as I recall

Posted by: SandMan at February 22, 2013 03:01 PM (fOvMn)

263 Just lovely.
FBI probe of defense tech allegedly leaked from NASA stonewalled, sources say

A four-year FBI investigation into the transfer of classified weapons technology to China and other countries from NASA’s Ames Research Center is being stonewalled by government officials, sources tell FoxNews.com.

Posted by: Bob Menedez at February 22, 2013 03:01 PM (uhftQ)

264 259 A long time ago--some of us wondered--how many of their commenters (at Liberal sites scubas Daily Kos, etc) are actually American? Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:52 PM (r2PLg)

I would love to know the answer to this. Although we could argue that regardless of country of residence they are not American.
Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:00 PM (+xmn4)

________________

I actually think I studied their sitemeter--it was significantly--"Euro Trash."

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 03:01 PM (r2PLg)

265 Entropy.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at February 22, 2013 03:02 PM (P3dtw)

266 "But I think that you're right...we can take the Republican party even further into conservative territory. And stand firm on the gains that we've made. "


Not that I buy off on the idea that Reagan couldn't get elected now, but guess I get what you're saying. The problem is that even if we accept the premise that the Republican party is now more conservative than it ever has been, it has not even achieved FiCon results in the past 20 years.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:02 PM (yCvxi)

267 Damn the scubas--they are the problem I'm SERIOUS YOU GUYS!

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 03:00 PM (r2PLg)


But are you SUPER CEREAL?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 22, 2013 03:02 PM (da5Wo)

268 247 Ian S,

correct....every move we've made I have had a harsh critical lessons learned chat with spouse as we left...

lesson fucking learned on HoAs and I'll sleep in my car rather than get into a contract that since I have read it enables me to say in all sincerity rendered my military one the second most self-injurious thing I ever signed....

not whining either I signed the military contract KNOWING I was remitting baseline liberty but did so happily for a higher purpose....

"lesson fucking learned" WRT these assholes....

ALWAYS read the fine print...I was nervous about even the verbal softsoap the realtor gave me and admittedly I caved because wife and son were still in great pain over her dad dying 5 days after she got home from Baghdad....

"lesson fucking learned"

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 03:02 PM (LRFds)

269 I hate autocorrect--but *it* started it.
Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (r2PLg)



lol!

My favorite autocorrects are the ones where you type something completely normal and mundane, and the autocorrect decides it doesn't exist and replaces it with a word or term that is so nonsensical or insane that you wonder why it's even in the dictionary.

TEXTER 1: "What do you want for dinner tonight? I was thinking goat fucking."
TEXTER 2: "Whaaaa'?"

TEXTER 1: "Oh for G-d's sake. GREEK. I was thinking GREEK. You know, extraterrestrial."

TEXTER 1: "G-DDAMMIT. Mediterranean."

TEXTER 1: "WTF, Autocorrect?"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:02 PM (4df7R)

270
I actually think I studied their sitemeter--it was significantly--"Euro Trash."Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 03:01 PM (r2PLg)

Figures. But did it tell you anything about scuba? That's the real concern.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:03 PM (+xmn4)

271 It's the ROI from HOA fees that is the big scam.

Funny story about that.

When the housing bubble popped, people who foreclosed also stopped paying HOA fees and the HOA ran out of money. At that point nobody wanted to run it since there was no money in it, and so under FL law it was turned over to a small private company that specializes in that sort of thing. Unsurprisingly, the private company was much better at it.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 22, 2013 03:03 PM (B/VB5)

272 257...Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 02:59 PM (0q2P7)

You talk like McCain and Romney...won.
They didn't.
Millions of conservatives stayed home and didn't vote for them.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 03:04 PM (eyJSG)

273
"MJ Voters are single issue. Once they get their woobie, you'll never see them again. "
Eh, not sure I agree with this. It's not just about those voters who want to smoke.In 2012 over half of all criminal arrests were MJ related. Our system is overwhelmed by MJ.Most people are for legalization, and most people have zero interest in smoking. I see it as being no different than prohibition of alcohol, the after-effect of legalization will be a huge plus for everybody, and that will be a massive political win. And the concept of prohibiting one substance is no different than another - like guns.

"Libertarians need to read at least one serious topic on Metaphysics so they temper their free in all circumstances theology (theology because it isn't supported by any rational theory or practical example) with at least some theoretical idea of how a society obtains and maintains a free state. "
Not sure what you're talking about here. You seem to be mistaking Libertarians with Anarchists. Even someone like Ron Paul who would gut the federal government to virtually nothing believes that at the state and local level they can do whatever the hell they want. Want to make MJ illegal, ok, great, more power to you... at the state level.
Take the crimes that we are truly concerned with - like theft and rape and murder. These things are prosecuted by cities, counties and states, not the feds. Feds only get involved when it becomes interstate, like a ted bundy situation organized crime spread across state lines. And even something like the FBI frankly doesn't need federal oversight. A conglomerate of states could form their own "FBI" to serve the same function. States can sign treaties (and do) that allow their state police to operate in neighboring states.
The Feds are not needed for law and order.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 03:04 PM (HS3dy)

274 It's the ROI from HOA fees that is the big scam.

But can you get there with a GPS? Where's CSI when you need them? FML...

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:04 PM (4df7R)

275 Figures. But did it tell you anything about scuba? That's the real concern.
Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:03 PM (+xmn4)


I, too, am concerned about this emerging scuba menace. It's only a matter of time before the squid figure it out...

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:05 PM (4df7R)

276 So we need a department who's function to kill other departments.

Which I think was one of Pournelle's ideas tooPosted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at February 22, 2013 01:55 PM (3ZtZW)

-----

There was a Federal Liquidation Board at one time.

See Shlaes: 'Coolidge'

Posted by: RioBravo at February 22, 2013 03:05 PM (eEfYn)

277 Entropy.

yup. Human entropy, or how stupid small-minded nabobs ruin everything.

Posted by: eleven at February 22, 2013 03:06 PM (fsLdt)

278 When topics like this come up, I like to point to the article which got no air time...

that many agencies are running a surplus, they can't spend money fast enough, but again, we can't introduce any efficiencies or cuts into the budget. because people will die.....

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at February 22, 2013 03:06 PM (QxSug)

279 >>>Isn't freedom it's own end? Not electoral politics?

Yes. So what? I should advance MJ because it supports freedom? We've got much bigger fish to fry than weed smoking. Until they are really on board with the cause, they can wait until weed smoking is the most pressing issue for us to tackle. We've got bigger issues to burn our political power on first, what little we have. It's about priorities, not electoral politics. Until they realize the US is oppressed in much bigger ways then them not having a joint their concerns fall where they fall. At about item 7000 of a 10000 item list of things to fix about America.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 03:07 PM (0q2P7)

280
Well, since scuba is an acronym already, let's give it all caps. Now that's threatening. SCUBA SMOD.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:08 PM (+xmn4)

281 I hate autocorrect--but *it* started it.

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (r2PLg)



damnyouautocorrect.com

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 03:08 PM (xmcEQ)

282 yup. Human entropy, or how stupid small-minded nabobs ruin everything.
Posted by: eleven at February 22, 2013 03:06 PM (fsLdt)


"Nabobs" is a word as deserving of a comeback as "popinjay" and "Sweyn Forkbeard." Why don't we have top men (TOP. MEN.) dedicated to making this happen?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:08 PM (4df7R)

283 "The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe"

Dr Leonard McCoy - Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home


Posted by: kbdabear at February 22, 2013 03:08 PM (mCvL4)

284 NABOB SMOD.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:09 PM (+xmn4)

285 279 MtM,

ah now MtM don't go using logic and relative valuation my friend....

I am sure legalized Wacky Tabakky offsets the massive assaults on the 1st, 2d, 4th, and 10th amendments that Luap Nor cult "punishing the GOP" has allowed to happen are more important...

at this point I'd legalize their injecting battery acid if they'd shut the fuck up and fight the fucking tyrants.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 03:09 PM (LRFds)

286 Well, since scuba is an acronym already, let's give it all caps. Now that's threatening. SCUBA SMOD.
Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:08 PM (+xmn4)


It came from the ocean to kill everything on land.
It was...
S C U B A
S M O D

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:09 PM (4df7R)

287 "I live in the woods outside my local city limit. I can shoot guns or do whatever the hell I want out here. I don't need building permits, I don't need permission to shoot fireworks or burn trash."

Laws seem to be mostly population driven. If there's 20 people on an island there's going to be about 6 laws.

Posted by: eleven at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (fsLdt)

288 Wednesday: The Establishment GOP that serves insiders and big government while marginalizing its own base is a myth, and damn those stupid Tea partiers for their supposed divisiveness for saying so!
.
Friday: the Establishment GOP serves insiders and big government while marginalizing its own base.
.
What a world.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (e/OuK)

289 at this point I'd legalize their injecting battery acid if they'd shut the fuck up and fight the fucking tyrants.
Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 03:09 PM (LRFds)


That'd be a short fight, Sven.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (+xmn4)

290 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:02 PM (4df7R)


Any auto-correct that changes "greek" to "goat fucking" is kickass.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (yCvxi)

291 I actually disagree with this....I think there are a lot of "us" who
feel there is no real difference between R and D and no longer give a
shit to be used to give "bipartisan" cover to communist ideas.


Of course you disagree. Most imbeciles do.

But you go ahead and pat yourself on the back after voting for that True Conservative write-in candidate who'll get 2% of the vote. I'm sure he only lost because of the big bad GOP Establishment boogeyman.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (SY2Kh)

292 286 - Alright, that made me lol.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (+xmn4)

293 NABOB SMOD.
Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:09 PM (+xmn4)


It came out of the EAST to fadiddle with doohickeys and shenanigans.
It was...
N A B O B
S M O D

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:11 PM (4df7R)

294 It's a classic thing, there are jokes in the military about departments burying spare parts so as to justify next year's expenses.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at February 22, 2013 03:11 PM (QxSug)

295 >I would say this applies to the Republican Party as well <

That maxim applies to our entire government nowadays.

The current Executive has engaged in the ultimate bureaucratic corruption. He has poisoned the Senate by taking power away from the people it is meant to serve. The majority of Senators have become part of the "Second Type" represented mainly by Barack Obama. The House (that is the people's House) has been marginalized into inaction, essentially stymieing it and relegating into a role as the "First Type".

Ergo, Obama has overseen the dilution of democratic process and replaced it with the ultimate imperial presidency.

Posted by: Marcus at February 22, 2013 03:11 PM (GGCsk)

296 SMOD http://www.amazon.com/SMOD/dp/B004W7G182

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy at February 22, 2013 03:11 PM (+I8Mq)

297 Okay, so I have a question (I'm back temporarily).

Does anyone know where I can get the Voting record of a Senator to compare his cloture votes with his votes on the bill in question? Or am I asking to spend hours of my precious free-time on the internet comparing databases?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 03:11 PM (xN73L)

298
"Yes. So what? I should advance MJ because it supports freedom? We've got much bigger fish to fry than weed smoking. "

I think you truly underestimate how huge this issue is. Go search some stats on how enveloped our legal system is in this issue. Police, judicial, penal, nearly all of these resources go to dealing with MJ. Our border patrol and BATF dealing with the drug cartels. The money we send to the drug cartels that create problems in Mexico with further exacerbates the illegal immigration issue.

It's not just a few kids who want to get high, this is a massive amount of money we're throwing at a problem that doesn't exist and at a time when WE ARE BROKE.

Instead of spending money, legalize it, and tax it... we could be making money off of this issue.

Plus there is the moral issue of is it even right and is it even Constitutional.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 03:11 PM (HS3dy)

299 275 Figures. But did it tell you anything about scuba? That's the real concern.
Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:03 PM (+xmn4)

I, too, am concerned about this emerging scuba menace. It's only a matter of time before the squid figure it out...
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:05 PM (4df7R)

___________

lol gawd.

****


281 I hate autocorrect--but *it* started it.

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 02:56 PM (r2PLg)



damnyouautocorrect.com
Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 03:08 PM (xmcEQ)


____________

Oh thanks. I'm going to check it out.

I'm thinking now--that I started it--unbeknownst to me. meta

Also the word SCUBA is freaking me out now.

I just ate a pound of quinoa from this hippy place--they might have put pot in it!

Damn hippies!

Posted by: tasker at February 22, 2013 03:12 PM (r2PLg)

300 293- LOL

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:12 PM (+xmn4)

301
I've lived in Colorado since '76.


When weed was illegal, everyone that wanted it could get it and smoke it, and they did. Now it's legal andhere's what haschanged:

The quality is much better if you make an effort to find good quality. If you have the right grower, you know the pot didn't get sprayed with any bad things. And you can be in possession of small amounts without paying a fine. And the police have more time to chase real criminals.

And people are a little more free.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 22, 2013 03:13 PM (1Y+hH)

302 "In fact I am surprised at how little improvement there has been in human evolution. There has been technical advancement, but... how little man himself has changed."

Khan Noonien Singh - Star Trek TOS : Space Seed

Posted by: kbdabear at February 22, 2013 03:13 PM (mCvL4)

303 Only because there were still lands and kingdoms they could conquer and bleed dry with taxes.

The shitheels planning to rule over the decline of America under the "end of the roman republic" model don't know that.



Imagine the danger we would face if we had a predatory nation with a strong military leader on our border. We'd be carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey.

America is just lucky that its northern neighbor is a bigger PC pussy than we are and its southern neighbor couldn't organize the invasion of a Taco Bell outlet without fucking it up.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 22, 2013 03:13 PM (8ZskC)

304 Just noticed that it is National Margarita Day! ... and a little salt won't make my blood pressure any higher than it already is....

Posted by: and irresolute at February 22, 2013 03:13 PM (DBH1h)

305
QUINOA NABOB

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:13 PM (+xmn4)

306 Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (SY2Kh)


And you go on celebrating all those FiCon victories back when we had control.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:13 PM (yCvxi)

307 But can you get there with a GPS? Where's CSI when you need them? FML...
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:04 PM (4df7R)



signed MWR, lol

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 03:14 PM (LpQbZ)

308 My favorite autocorrects are the ones where you type something completely normal and mundane, and the autocorrect decides it doesn't exist and replaces it with a word or term that is so nonsensical or insane that you wonder why it's even in the dictionary.


I love reading TFLN and one of my favorites is "I find it simply astounding that you spelled drunken wrong but pterodactyl right".


Then there's this one which may be my all time favorite due to the I am so better than you it induces - http://tfl.nu/ysr8

By the way, the answer to the question posed is yes, by the insanity of cthulhu, yes.

Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 22, 2013 03:14 PM (VtjlW)

309 Any auto-correct that changes "greek" to "goat fucking" is kickass.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (yCvxi)


Sponge linked damnyouautocorrect.com; you should check it out if you need a laugh. Trust me, changing "Greek" to "goat fucking" would actually be TAME.


SON: (texting father) "I heard mom was in the hospital? is she okay?"
FATHER: "She's fine. Got stung by a bee, so I stuck her with an epic penis and got her to the ER. She's resting."
SON: "Umm..."
FATHER: "What the...? EPI PEN."


I'm not even making that one up. lol!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:14 PM (4df7R)

310 Epic. Penis.

Posted by: © Sponge at February 22, 2013 03:15 PM (xmcEQ)

311 304--- "Just noticed that it is National Margarita Day! "

Posted by: and irresolute at February 22, 2013 03:13 PM (DBH1h)

You rang?
You are bringing gifts perhaps!
Yiiiiiiipppppppppeeeeeeee!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 22, 2013 03:15 PM (C8mVl)

312 297...AllenG

Did you check that site called...senatereports.com?

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 03:16 PM (eyJSG)

313 I lost an epic penis once.

Posted by: A Sea Slug at February 22, 2013 03:16 PM (8ZskC)

314 For example, a local chess club. Most of the members just want to play,
that's why they joined, but they need someone to collect dues to pay for
rent/cleanup/sets, etc. So usually one or two of the weaker players get
drafted as officers to manage that crap. They start organizing
fundraisers, etc. Before you know it the needs of "the Club" are being
put before the purpose, which is just to play.


The only club I was ever part of that didn't have that kind of problem was one that was in all sorts of financial trouble - we asked one of the older wiser people to run it. He agreed only on the proviso that he become a dictator - that his decisions were to be final. We agreed. He ran things as a benevolent dictator and everything worked fine. A young girl came into the club and after a while tried to form a "democracy movement" to throw out the dictator. It was pretty obvious that she wanted the job so she could be a malevolent dictator and raid the treasury. When the election was held I think her own was the only vote she got.

What makes dictators dangerous in governments is that there they have the power of life and death over people. In clubs, a dictator who doesn't want the job and who can be voted out is the proper way to do things.

Posted by: An Observation at February 22, 2013 03:16 PM (ylhEn)

315 "Epic penis" sounds like the punchline of an EoJ joke.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 22, 2013 03:16 PM (B/VB5)

316 But you go ahead and pat yourself on the back after voting for that True Conservative write-in candidate who'll get 2% of the vote

Actually Jackass, I've voted for every Republican nominee that I have been elgible to vote for since I've been eligible.......Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain, Romney and every Senator, Rep, local etc.
Straight ticket guy......does that sound like a purist to you dick head?
I'm just saying that a lot of people have a JUSTIFICATION for what they feel, fuck head. Sticking your head in the sand and denying it won't make it go away and it is a real, maybe even existential problem for the Republican party.

If you think the R's can win without these people, you need to be over with the Libertarians smoking all the dope you want.

Posted by: FTIP at February 22, 2013 03:16 PM (uPDcc)

317 Even Reagan couldn't get elected right now as a Republican.





Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2013 02:54 PM

And JFK couldn't get elected as a Democrat

And in all likelihood, neither could LBJ

Even Clinton would be suspect. It's the party of Jimmy Carter now

Posted by: kbdabear at February 22, 2013 03:17 PM (mCvL4)

318 I actually disagree with this....I think there are a lot of "us" who
feel there is no real difference between R and D and no longer give a
shit to be used to give "bipartisan" cover to communist ideas.

Of course you disagree. Most imbeciles do.

But you go ahead and pat yourself on the back after voting for that True Conservative write-in candidate who'll get 2% of the vote. I'm sure he only lost because of the big bad GOP Establishment boogeyman.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 22, 2013 03:10 PM (SY2Kh)



I guess Angelo Codevilla is also an imbecile.

Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 03:18 PM (LpQbZ)

319 Does anyone know where I can get the Voting record
of a Senator to compare his cloture votes with his votes on the bill in
question? Or am I asking to spend hours of my precious free-time on the
internet comparing databases?


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 03:11 PM (xN73L)


Thomas gives votes for individual bills. Not sure if they track cloture votes though. Sometimes the newspapers will have those. But you have to search by bill number or title.

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 03:18 PM (53z96)

320 Black Athletic Superstar abandons baby, hey no worries the feds have a program for both the mother and child..

Posted by: Clemenza at February 22, 2013 03:18 PM (x59Gv)

321 Oh I've seen it. Laugh my ass off everytime I go there. Even when reading the ones I've seen before.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:18 PM (yCvxi)

322 Dr Leonard McCoy - Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

Bones said that? Great line.

Posted by: eleven at February 22, 2013 03:18 PM (fsLdt)

323 I lost an epic penis once.
Posted by: A Sea Slug at February 22, 2013 03:16 PM (8ZskC)


"I think mine is still there, but I can never know for sure..."

-Michael Moore

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:18 PM (4df7R)

324 signed MWR, lol
Posted by: tgibeach at February 22, 2013 03:14 PM (LpQbZ)


lol! You're right! I hadn't even thought of that!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:19 PM (4df7R)

325 Your a slacker in school, hey do not fret the education stuff, the feds have a program for that..

Posted by: Clemenza at February 22, 2013 03:19 PM (x59Gv)

326 The quality is much better if you make an effort to find good quality. If you have the right grower, you know the pot didn't get sprayed with any bad things. And you can be in possession of small amounts without paying a fine. And the police have more time to chase real criminals.
A fucking stoner. I just knew it.

Posted by: polynikes at February 22, 2013 03:19 PM (m2CN7)

327 >>>Even someone like Ron Paul who would gut the federal government to
virtually nothing believes that at the state and local level they can do
whatever the hell they want.

Buzz. Thanks for playing. He thinks they have the Constitutional authority to do pretty much whatever they want. That is not the same as actually supporting policies like illegal MJ (Which I don't support BTW) or no abortion on demmand (Which RP does support at the state level).

You need to learn the platform of your own candidates. My problem with Paul is not his domestic policy which has been quite good. It is his naive and historically ignorant foreign policy.

Now my problem with Ronulans. That is a different story altogether. Often times their beliefs are....strange. And they propose strange things, often times not in alignment with their candidates. like a conglomeration of states to form an interstate police. The federal principal of US government was specifically made to handle that sort of thing, so you are going to create a second parallel federalist body for one specific purpose? Strange....


Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 03:19 PM (0q2P7)

328 Even Clinton would be suspect. It's the party of Jimmy Carter now

*Bill* Clinton, yes. Hillary's more in tune with where the party is now, although I still think she's going to get shivved by Cory Booker.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 22, 2013 03:19 PM (B/VB5)

329 hey Girl , want to dispose of that baby? No problem the Government has a program for that..

Posted by: Clemenza at February 22, 2013 03:20 PM (x59Gv)

330 Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 22, 2013 03:14 PM (VtjlW)


There's a GWB and Bristol Palin put down in the comments section of that. WTF?


I always have to go to the comments don't I?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:21 PM (yCvxi)

331 Local reporter opens dictionary, discovers SCUBA is an acronym.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:21 PM (4df7R)

332 Need a phone? Hey brother no problemo. we got it covered SA...

Posted by: Clemenza at February 22, 2013 03:21 PM (x59Gv)

333 Your a slacker in school, hey do not fret the education stuff, the feds have a program for that..

When you put up a net, the tightrope walkers get sloppy.

Posted by: The Iron Law of The Flying Wallendas at February 22, 2013 03:21 PM (8ZskC)

334 also, hence the rise of the bureaucrat ninja. Who doesn't want to wear SWAT gear and take down perps, even the perps are just a bunch of hippies trying to sell raw milk on the down low.

Sven raises a good point, fuck it, inject battery acid, can we start addressing real issues?*

*no. because there's always another need to fill in a consumption society with infinite needs and wants. So, we give up abortion, gheys, pr0n, whatever, the donks will still just come up with a new Sandra Fluke to demand free shit.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at February 22, 2013 03:21 PM (QxSug)

335 Did you check that site called...senatereports.com?

Never heard of it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 03:21 PM (xN73L)

336 321Oh I've seen it. Laugh my ass off everytime I go there. Even when reading the ones I've seen before.Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:18 PM (yCvxi)

I found it funny, at first. Then I began to realize it's just as easy for people to type in those things on purpose and upload to the site blaming autocorrect.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:22 PM (+xmn4)

337 That is not the same as actually supporting policies
like illegal MJ (Which I don't support BTW) or no abortion on demmand
(Which RP does support at the state level).




Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 03:19 PM (0q2P7)

Bull. Shit. He says that the federal govt has no standing constitutionally to "allow" or "ban either MJ OR abortion. He is pro-life. A Jew-hating pro-lifer, but pro-lifer none the less.Why am I being forced to defend LuapNor again?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 03:22 PM (xAtAj)

338 Need some help with your illegal Tresspassing on Clemenzas Lawn , no Problem , we got new laws for that stuff, kick it on Clemenza's lawn no problemo...

Posted by: Clemenza at February 22, 2013 03:22 PM (x59Gv)

339 There's a GWB and Bristol Palin put down in the comments section of that. WTF?

You could be looking at the most innocuous thing -- you could be watching a video of a budgie taking a nap -- and if you read deep enough into the comments you will find, guaranteed, a "Bush is Hitler"-style quote, a reference to Che Guevara, and someone being called a fag.

It's another Iron Law.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:23 PM (4df7R)

340 Actually Jackass, I've voted for every Republican nominee that I have
been elgible to vote for since I've been eligible.......Reagan, Bush,
Dole, Bush, McCain, Romney and every Senator, Rep, local etc.

Straight ticket guy......does that sound like a purist to you dick head?


So you've been voting for all those Communists who are exactly like Democrats?

Tell me more about how your precious feelings.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 22, 2013 03:23 PM (SY2Kh)

341 **328 Even Clinton would be suspect. It's the party of Jimmy Carter now **

IDK if I agree with this line of reasoning, but there is this: In the age of the NO-INFO voter, the donks can run the most egregiously left wing candidates and still win because it doesn't matter.

Maybe this is why reagan and Bush the HW talked about liberals all the time, made it a bad word. Something Mackerel was too gentile to do.

Also, Bush the W won with "I voted for it before I voted against it" while Mackerel and Romney couldn't be bothered to push "pass it to know what's in it" or a thousand other things.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at February 22, 2013 03:23 PM (QxSug)

342 Once again I'll ask ...

Throw out the social conservatives, what's to keep them from voting Democrat like they did up until the 80s?

They outnumber the Paulbots by a good 10 to 1

Anybody have an answer for that?

Posted by: kbdabear at February 22, 2013 03:23 PM (mCvL4)

343 Anybody have an answer for that?
Posted by: kbdabear at February 22, 2013 03:23 PM (mCvL4)


I think it involves SCUBA.

(Sorry, it's late in the day and I'm getting goofy. To give you a serious answer: there is none)

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:25 PM (4df7R)

344 You could be looking at the most innocuous thing -- you could be watching a video of a budgie taking a nap -- and if you read deep enough into the comments you will find, guaranteed, a "Bush is Hitler"-style quote, a reference to Che Guevara, and someone being called a fag.

It's another Iron Law.Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 22, 2013 03:23 PM (4df7R)


Sadly, this. Comment sections tend to be the equivelent of an unsupervised kindergarten class - half of which is hurling lincoln logs at each other while the other half just learned their first curse word.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:25 PM (+xmn4)

345 "Never heard of it."


First I've seen that written on this blog by a non-Charlie Gibson sock in a long time.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:25 PM (yCvxi)

346 Need Amnesty from the Law , check with the stash Man he got you covered....

Posted by: Clemenza at February 22, 2013 03:26 PM (x59Gv)

347 So you've been voting for all those Communists who are exactly like Democrats?

He means that he believed the alleged results-oriented guys like you, but no results have been forthcoming. In other words, we tried it your way, it was a massive fail, but you keep insisting it'll work next time.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 22, 2013 03:26 PM (B/VB5)

348 First I've seen that written on this blog by a non-Charlie Gibson sock in a long time.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 22, 2013 03:25 PM (yCvxi)

Yeah I'm pretty sure I've never heard of it.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at February 22, 2013 03:26 PM (xAtAj)

349 So, call EoJ for bee stings. Good to know.

Potentially difficult to explain outside the Horde, though.

Posted by: Brother Cavil and his Ampersandsaurus at February 22, 2013 03:26 PM (GBXon)

350
SOCON SCUBA SMOD.

Posted by: Heralder at February 22, 2013 03:27 PM (+xmn4)

351 new one finally

Posted by: Vic at February 22, 2013 03:27 PM (53z96)

352 Your question is irrelevant now that we've seen that Romney won white voters better than reagan did in 1984.

You have the donk's replacement american program. Who cares about paulbots or socons when there are 50 million new americans of the no-information persuasion that voted for obama for fuck knows what?

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at February 22, 2013 03:27 PM (QxSug)

353 345
"Never heard of it."



How about "Stuff Said in the Senate, Volume III"?

Posted by: Muad'dib - Bringer of Cookies at February 22, 2013 03:27 PM (KjlbF)

354 Since it keeps coming up, what again did Laup Nor actually ¤do¤ to reduce the scope of government?
.
Not ¤say¤, but actually accomplish?
.
I remember a lot of pork and speeches, not much action.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 22, 2013 03:27 PM (e/OuK)

355 177 All of this discussion is one of the reasons I like a flat tax, it absolutely destroys these crony bastards in DC. Also the reason why it or a "fair tax" will never come to pass.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 22, 2013 02:40 PM (p/cQy)


I actualy like the idea of a National Sales Tax, with an Excise Tax on property imported but not sold... which replaces all other taxes.

Flat.... fair... do it on EVERYTHING so everyone pays somthing... and this would Tax Imports (as they are sold in America) but NOT exports (giving us a HUGE advantage on Exported goods).

It would also not Tax income from Savings or dividends until spend... but WOULD tax the sale of stock... making it better to hold stock, vice play in the virtual Las Vegas the stock market has become...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 22, 2013 03:27 PM (lZBBB)

356 That's a major portion of Democrat success. They have the rabble who think they're being served voting to keep it, AND the bureaucracy that gets enriched by serving them, whether they do it well or not. Both groups work together to protect that bureaucracy.

So, to break that wall, you either have to defund the bureaucracy, and take heat from the rabble for being cold-hearted Republican scum, or convince the rabble that they're really getting pissed on. Option #2 is harder, but safer. Option #1 is the most possible, and has the most fallout.

Posted by: zsasz at February 22, 2013 03:28 PM (MMC8r)

357 So you've been voting for all those Communists who are exactly like Democrats?
Have been......won't necessarily anymore. And frankly I'm more pissed about the fiscal mismanagement that can be laid in the laps of the R'sand ruinedthe brand totally.
Tell me, if you think the R's are the fiscal saviors of the world......what evidence is there to indicate that they will actually solve the problem? Why should I vote for them?

Posted by: FTIP at February 22, 2013 03:29 PM (uPDcc)

358 Throw out the social conservatives, what's to keep them from voting Democrat like they did up until the 80s?

The thing people keep forgetting is that Conservatism doesn't work if the SoCon piece is not working with the FiCon piece.

Don't get fooled by people like Huckabee. He's not actually all that socially conservative. He believes in government intervention in your moral life (specifically prohibiting things he doesn't like). With the exception that the "things he doesn't like" are porn and gambling (for instance), what's the difference between that and the Democrats?

Conservatism is the name we currently give the idea of limited government. We believe that the government has a certain specific and limited roll to play in our lives- largely keeping us safe from foreign invaders, and making sure the states all Play Well With Others- and that anything beyond that should be taken care of by the state, county, or municipality, if government needs to do it at all (roads, schools, etc.)

If you fight for that in all things you will get both socially conservative outcomes and fiscally conservative outcomes. But the fact is that most people don't actually want conservative, limited government. They can't even conceive what that would look like.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 03:30 PM (xN73L)

359 I remember a lot of pork and speeches, not much action.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 22, 2013 03:27 PM (e/OuK)

No one's arguing with you on this point.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 03:30 PM (xAtAj)

360 342 KBDabear,

yeah but I hate it you likely won't like it and I know the more devout will hate it worse than I do...

the left infiltrated the Church in a lot of cases to force the secular in...

plaintiff's exhibit 1) the 'Anglican" Church.......

some of our "atheist lovers of Locke" need to hold their noses and join Churches to weaponize them back into lovers of liberty

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 03:31 PM (LRFds)

361 >>>You talk like McCain and Romney...won.

>>>They didn't.

>>>Millions of conservatives stayed home and didn't vote for them.

No millions of moderates wouldn't vote for Romney. Obama managed to mobilize the FSA. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 22, 2013 03:31 PM (0q2P7)

362 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 03:30 PM (xN73L)

I we let those potheads walk free on the streets the Huns will invade!!!

Huck 2016

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at February 22, 2013 03:31 PM (xAtAj)

363 And you go on celebrating all those FiCon victories back when we had control.

What victories? They fucked up and paid the price for it.

Now they're not in control, yet you keep acting as though they are.

Obamacare didn't pass because of Boehner. Obama didn't get re-elected because of Karl Rove. It's not McConnell trying to ban guns.

You keep blaming the policies of Obama and the Democrats on the GOP, and it's absurd. It's also exactly what Obama is actively trying to convince you of.





Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 22, 2013 03:33 PM (SY2Kh)

364 356 Zsasz,

CIA using the OSS old hands to fight communism in the early 50s under project rollback basically had it out on your two points....

the after action analysis says that weaponizing FreeShit Army is the better tactic to merely topple an opfor nation, but the crisis when the opfor is in YOUR nation is that the evidence suggests you merely become the budget tyrants instead of reempowering liberty....

You need a ruthless ethical hardass who never loses sight of the goal to destroy their newly gained power on a timeline.....


it takes damn near Monastic will....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 22, 2013 03:34 PM (LRFds)

365 how did we win? wedges

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at February 22, 2013 03:35 PM (QxSug)

366 The wishy ficons did reduce the deficit during wartime. But they did a half-ass job and couldn't keep it up, allowed govt growing and regulatory expansion, and did such a poor propaganda job they lost both houses to the commies.
.
And then, instant and permanent trillion-plus deficits.
.
Why, I think we may be doomed.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 22, 2013 03:37 PM (e/OuK)

367 yeah, we let the teacher's unions turn our kids ghey, we let the black groups make the banks (see that book, architects ruin) give bad loans, and created government financed democrat voting groups (ACORN) while the ficons and socons were allegedly in charge.

as mark steyn, we failed to control the conversation HERE while we were off killing arabs and commies. Which sucks.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at February 22, 2013 03:41 PM (QxSug)

368 You keep blaming the policies of Obama and the Democrats on the GOP, and it's absurd. It's also exactly what Obama is actively trying to convince you of.

It is NOT absurd. I'll speak slowly........the R's acting like D's when they had power was instrumental to tha D's actually getting power. There is no distinction fiscally in manypeople's minds anymore...........so you can blame it on the SoCons all you want, but there has been no outlawing of abortion, no gays being hanged, no atheists being tarred and feathered.

The failure of the Republican party has been EXACTLY along fiscal lines.

In the past, we might have been known as the "mean white guys who don't like anybody" but at least we could be counted on to try to keep the govt to reasonable scale.....we have lost that because of how FICONS acted .

Posted by: FTIP at February 22, 2013 03:41 PM (uPDcc)

369 I'm not a SoCon myself, far from it

But I can do the math

That which is displaced must be replaced

Posted by: kbdabear at February 22, 2013 03:41 PM (mCvL4)

370
"No millions of moderates wouldn't vote for Romney. Obama managed to mobilize the FSA. Keep whistling past the graveyard. "

Not true. I'm definitely not a moderate and I didn't vote for Romney. Voted for Johnson, although admittedly I only did this because I knew Romney would carry Texas no matter what and wanted to see 3rd party reach that 5% mark.

But I know a LOT of people didn't vote for Romney where it counted because 1) He was Mormon, and 2) Because he wasn't conservative. This has been rather established with polling. The anti-Mormon votes were very real. And a lot of conservatives definitely stayed home. I mean come on, LESS people voted in the entire election.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 03:42 PM (HS3dy)

371 Which is exactly what 3rd party advocates have been saying for years.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 22, 2013 02:10 PM (xN73L)

The Republican Party came into being when Henry Clay, Whig leader, refused to confront the Democrats over the expansion of slavery into the territories and sold out the principles of the Whig Party with the 1850 Compromise, specifically the Fugitive Slave Act, which would compel Northern states to actively assist in the return of slaves to their masters in the South.
My point is that a viable third party must--absolutely must--be bound together by a higher cause. If that cause is individual freedom, a modern American third party might have a chance. Men and women would die for that cause. Anything less and you have the Libertarians, ineffectual and fringe, forced to disguise themselves as Republicans so people will take them seriously.

Posted by: troyriser at February 22, 2013 03:42 PM (vtiE6)

372
"The failure of the Republican party has been EXACTLY along fiscal lines. "
100% true. The most fiscally irresponsible POTUS pre-Obama was Bush II. Before that it was Bush I, before that it was Reagan.

I'll give Reagan a pass because of the Cold War, and because his debt spending was a drop in the bucket compared to Bush and Obama. GOP has been irresponsible for decades. Bush II is the one that started the bailout trend. And since 2010 elections what has Congress done? Raised the debt ceiling and passed every budget the Dems asked for. They do nothing but talk, they own the current situation just like Obama.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 03:46 PM (HS3dy)

373 In the past, we might have been known as the "mean white guys who don't
like anybody" but at least we could be counted on to try to keep the
govt to reasonable scale.....we have lost that because of how FICONS
acted .


Bush was a SoCon, and approximately the opposite of a FisCon. Current GOP leadership is well aware that they fucked up.

You're angry over what Obama and the Dems have done. I get that. Is it unreasonable to blame the people actually responsible?

Why are you so interested in giving Obama, Reid and Pelosi a free pass in favor of desperately searching for a Republican boogeyman?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 22, 2013 03:49 PM (SY2Kh)

374
"My point is that a viable third party must--absolutely must--be bound together by a higher cause. If that cause is individual freedom, a modern American third party might have a chance. Men and women would die for that cause. Anything less and you have the Libertarians, ineffectual and fringe, forced to disguise themselves as Republicans so people will take them seriously."

Valid point, this is why 3rd party hasn't formed. I'd join one immediately if a good one existed. And you're right, the GOP is hypocritical. We are the ones that created the TSA which led to the naked body scanners. We are the one that passed the Patriot Act. At a fundamental level it's just hypocritical to talk about the Constitution as being the basis for the 2nd amendment and such given how we've pissed all over it in the name of "security."

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 03:49 PM (HS3dy)

375
"All of this discussion is one of the reasons I like a flat tax, it absolutely destroys these crony bastards in DC. Also the reason why it or a "fair tax" will never come to pass. "

The only issue I have with a national sales tax is that it would grant the feds another means of taxation and I don't see that going well. I'd be for a national sales tax only if 16th amendment were repealed with it.

All for a flat tax over current situation. No rules, no deductions, no discussion, everybody pays. And corporate tax rate should go to 0% across the board.

But will never happen. We'll be in a civil war long before this happens.

Posted by: Andrew at February 22, 2013 03:52 PM (HS3dy)

376 The third Santa has to sell freedom as more valuable than a pension or o-phone or health care package.

I don't see it happening.

Posted by: sTevo at February 22, 2013 03:53 PM (SLhOh)

377 Current GOP leadership is well aware that they fucked up.

If they are so self aware then why don't they say "we know we spent too much and ruined our brand and we really need to stand our ground on spending"

Instead of

Caving EVERY time and saying "Oooh, we have to get rid of those icky, Bible banging, homophobe racist, SoCons?"

Posted by: FTIP at February 22, 2013 03:54 PM (uPDcc)

378 Caving EVERY time and saying "Oooh, we have to get rid of those icky, Bible banging, homophobe racist, SoCons?"
Posted by: FTIP at February 22, 2013 03:54 PM (uPDcc)

I think this whole ficon/socon business is an artificial construct. Either your political philosophy has a moral basis or it doesn't. If it doesn't, you'll find few to believe in it strongly enough to fight for it. For their part, the Democrats offer true believers the promise of a gleaming future Utopia, rainbows and sunshine, where all the pretty flowers pick themselves. Either we counter that ideal with ideals of our own or we will continue to lose. It's that 'vision thing' George H. W. Bush talked about in that inarticulate Bush way.

We could tell the public the truth about the looming (and now inevitable) economic catastrophe headed our way, I suppose. We could preach the proven benefits of free market prosperity and individual freedom. We could attack the Democrats for their hypocrisy and lies. By 'we' I mean GOP leadership. That GOP leadership refuses to do these things tells us all we need to know about GOP leadership.

Posted by: troyriser at February 22, 2013 04:15 PM (vtiE6)

379 Poli Sci class called the phenomena "Institutional Thickening"

Posted by: SKree at February 22, 2013 04:17 PM (kG6Qj)

380 To cancel the bureaucracy that provides federal government services, you would have to want to argue that perpetual federal government services are not part of the solution of social ills.

The party that wants immigrants on food stamps won't take that up.

Neither will the party that promotes the Ryan plan for national health insurance.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at February 22, 2013 05:27 PM (IiuS/)

381 Try reading H. Beam Piper . He makes Jerry look like a moderate .

Posted by: DrDrill at February 22, 2013 10:25 PM (JOvQ1)

382 Organizations that don't devote some portion of their efforts to achieving their ostensible purposes will eventually FAIL.

Posted by: Esau's Message at February 23, 2013 05:15 PM (6c62F)






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