Tea Party Patriots Send Out Email With Karl Rove Photoshopped Into Nazi Uniform

A lot of people complain of bread and circuses and cults of personality and endless diversions.

Let me tell you, I see this Tea Party thing as getting to be just that.

So, what we have here is a professional political fundraising organization accusing another professional political fundraising organization of not being pure enough.

This is childishness. This is turf warfare. This is Yankees vs. Mets, for adults instead of young boys.

At what point do I actually have to sign Loyalty Oaths?

Yay team, I guess? Will there be mascots and Foam Fingers at some point? Will they shoot out team t-shirts to us out of air cannons at rallies?

I don't feel like this is politics, or political philosophy, or anything. It seems more clownishly carnival-like at every turn.

I feel like we are collectively being exploited -- and permitting ourselves to be exploited -- by utilization the easily-activated human tendency to think in terms of teams and tribes, which leads to personalization of and emotional investment in subjects which are actually quite impersonal and which ought to be considered with the chilly remove of reason, not the rah-rah of the We'll Get 'Em Next Year zeal of the dedicated fan.

To some extent effectively relies upon just this -- and I wouldn't jettison it.

But this intramural stuff? Does literally everything now have to be Rah-Rah and Go Team Go?

Posted by: Ace at 02:34 PM



Comments

1 first!

Posted by: Red Shirt at February 19, 2013 02:35 PM (FIDMq)

2 Completely agree with this post.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 02:35 PM (r2PLg)

3 Very interesting. But Schtoopid

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at February 19, 2013 02:36 PM (+aaxF)

4 When you hate Karl Rove more than Axelrod--you have a problem.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 02:36 PM (r2PLg)

5 Ungrateful crackas

Posted by: Karl Rove at February 19, 2013 02:37 PM (60GaT)

6 *facepalm*

We just can't help it.

Posted by: EC at February 19, 2013 02:37 PM (GQ8sn)

7 Not disagreeing with you, ace, but the article you linked does say it was a mistake made by an outside vendor when linking to a bing picture (that I assume they didn't have permission to use?).

Unless your argument is that they did do it on purpose even though they say they didnt.

Posted by: Timin203 at February 19, 2013 02:37 PM (azmhu)

8 The Mets suck.

Posted by: garrett at February 19, 2013 02:37 PM (XUatG)

9 Zis must be ze miztake.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at February 19, 2013 02:38 PM (+aaxF)

10 first they came for the Akins

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:38 PM (60GaT)

11 I am so bored with the entire Nazi analogy. Can't we find some other way to demonize our opponents?

Posted by: kathysaysso at February 19, 2013 02:38 PM (6H6o8)

12 Ace, didn't it start with Karl Rove?

Complain to him.

Posted by: Pastorius at February 19, 2013 02:38 PM (gMAUH)

13
the stupid party
yep
8. the yanks and mets both suck..
ONLY THE CUBS CAN WIN THE 2013 WORLD SERIES

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (660FR)

14 7 yeah who'd get the idea that the Tea Party'd throw around Hitler comparisons. very uncharacteristic

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (60GaT)

15 Hey, at least it's not Rove asStalin with those loyalty purges right?

Wait - this just in - I'm being told there's no better option in a Hitler vs. Stalin comparison.

Posted by: Austin in TX at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (F9Hpt)

16 PIRAAAATES!!!

Oh ya...oops.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (r2PLg)

17 Cool , circular firing squad .
Man , i love those things ,.

Posted by: awkward davies at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (USjX1)

18 Um, did you not read the whole link you provided? The tea party did NOT put a photo of Karl Rove in a Nazi uniform in their email. Some vendor added the image.

Posted by: Tamminator at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (XJqBa)

19 Fucking Rove got the ball rolling on this shit. Screw the old bastard.

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 02:40 PM (OlN4e)

20 Is there a single Tea Party fundraising organization that isn't either a scam or comprised of complete fuckups?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 02:41 PM (SY2Kh)

21 Karl Rove is an ass. He has lied about his jobs in politics, he declares himself the mouthpiece of conservatives, but he is mostly a self-promoting hustler.


That said, the Nazi uniform might be a step up for him.


The tea party is not one voice, any more than the various "voting blocs" are one voice. Whoever put this photo in circulation will pay for it, but let's not paint every conservative with the same brush.

Posted by: tcn at February 19, 2013 02:41 PM (VLG62)

22 Rove said he wanted more Senate candidates who wouldn't screw themselves and had a better shot at winning. the nerve of this guy

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:41 PM (60GaT)

23 Vendor was the one who used the image.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 19, 2013 02:41 PM (UOM48)

24 At what point do I actually have to sign Loyalty Oaths?

---

Don't tempt me on that one...

I'd want to make Rove and the RNSC sign oaths to support candidates which win the Republican primaries given some of the temper tantrums they had in 2010 over O'Donnell, Rand Paul, and Joe Miller.

Give a candidate a chance to sink or swim on their own instead of throwing them an anchor the second after their win has been called.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 02:42 PM (e0xKF)

25 #8 Pitbull sucks too.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at February 19, 2013 02:42 PM (wbmaj)

26 The enemy is obama and the democrats. Keep your on the ball or else.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2013 02:42 PM (9Bj8R)

27
Loyalty oaths? No.

Dispatching a hobo with a claw hammer to show you're a team player? I'm right there with ya', boss.

Posted by: Jaws at February 19, 2013 02:42 PM (4I3Uo)

28 Um, did you not read the whole link you provided? The tea party did NOT
put a photo of Karl Rove in a Nazi uniform in their email. Some vendor
added the image.


Why would they need an outside vendor to copy and paste an image into an e-mail?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (SY2Kh)

29 18

That's the thing. Who has the right to call themselves or deny others the name of "Tea Party"? It's so unofficial that anyone can call themselves it, for good or ill.

Posted by: JJ Stone at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (0yeg8)

30 22 Rove said he wanted more Senate candidates who wouldn't screw themselves and had a better shot at winning. the nerve of this guy

---

Rove didn't have to support a Christine O'Donnell with his own money, just not run her over with a bus the second after she beat his hand-picked candidate.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (e0xKF)

31 I am not a witch.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (wbmaj)

32 Do.Not.Like.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (piMMO)

33 You didn't read the article, did you Ace?

“We did not know about or approve a manufactured image added to a recent email from the Tea Party Patriots. It was added by an outside vendor..."

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (Ipj15)

34
whoa. talk about killing any goodwill you might have. even if you don't like Rove, that's just crazy dumb.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (p/cQy)

35 >>>Ace, didn't it start with Karl Rove?

"He started it."

Thank you for proving my point.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (LCRYB)

36 Let's rumble.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (evdj2)

37 tea party thing is really pissing me off, because it's not really grassroots anymore. I consider my self a tea party type guy, I'm a bit more practical in I saw the disaster on some of these nominees, but I supported them. I hear tea party ads telling me about Feinsteins gun bill.

I always got mad when I'd hear liberals bitch and moan about tea partiers on issues like abortion or immigration, and I'd think to myself "hey fuck them, the tea party is primarily related to fiscal issues, they are making shit up" but I guess it's self fulfilling, we're are now playing into their nonsense by getting bogged down in all these other issues.

Oh well... time for something new I guess.

Posted by: dr. shatterhand at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (n/ogz)

38 This is like a teenage girls-only sleep over. It will only end in tears, pouting, and vicious tweeting.

Posted by: Fritz at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (WM+rJ)

39 "Let me tell you, I see this Tea Party thing as getting to be just that."
===============

A cult of personality? Centered around whom?

Posted by: Kensington at February 19, 2013 02:43 PM (/AHDz)

40 26The enemy is obama and the democrats. Keep your on the ball or else. Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2013 02:42 PM (9Bj8R) Maybe someone should point that out to Rove and his elitist shithead ilk?

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (OlN4e)

41 I like the Tea Party 100 times more then Karl Rove who thinks he can spit-shine the Bush brand and put it back on the market.

Seems like an accident on the TP part.

Posted by: Regular Moron at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (feFL6)

42 "The tea party is not one voice"

convenient

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (60GaT)

43 I've have had enough of this. Pretty soon I am going to become a registered independent.

Honestly, what's next- the burning dog poop on a stoop trick?

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (GGCsk)

44 The enemy is obama and the democrats. Keep your on the ball or else.

But when your own party publicly talks trash about you, what are you suppose to do? Keep sayin', I wuv woo?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (kqqGm)

45 26--" The enemy is obama and the democrats. Keep your eye on the ball or else."
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 19, 2013 02:42 PM (9Bj8R)

BINGO!!!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (C8mVl)

46 I guess, if all that matters is what letter, R or D, is after the office holder's name, then you'd be correct, Ace. But, when both those letters have come to stand either for the exact same bullshit, or the R bending over to allow the D to fuck it up the ass on a consistant basis, then something needs to change.

The R does not stand for conservatives any more. Hasn't for a generation now.

What some see as pointless intramural squabbling is in actuality, conservatives trying to find some way to get representation in our political system.

Posted by: Grimmy at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (uUsh9)

47 Ace, loyalty oaths already exist.


The Nassau County (FL) Republican Party requires you to take a loyalty oath, that you will only support Republican candidates with money, effort and/or votes. Don't take the oath, can't play ball.


It's the main reason I didn't join.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (da5Wo)

48 Please, sir, could I have some more?

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (wbmaj)

49 >>>I'd want to make Rove and the RNSC sign oaths to support candidates which win the Republican primaries given some of the temper tantrums they had in 2010 over O'Donnell, Rand Paul, and Joe Miller.

We all did support them. Please get over the butthurt that you were told COD was a loser, you didn't listen, you bet differently, you were wrong, but can't seem to admit that.

You are looking for Stabbed in the Back excuses for yourself when the truth is right simple, if slightly painful to the ego: You were wrong, I was right.

There is no shame in being wrong.

There is shame in persisting in being wrong.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (LCRYB)

50 Ace,

Read the article.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (Ipj15)

51 Fighting is so unseemly.

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (11Tdq)

52 This is like a teenage girls-only sleep over. It will only end in tears, pouting, and vicious tweeting.

Pffft. Whatever.

*eyeroll*

Posted by: Teenage girl at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (BrQrN)

53 I am not a warlock.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (wbmaj)

54 WAY O/T.... but just realized somthing....

There has not been a coalition, or American Casualty in Afganistan for over a MONTH...

ie.... since Obama was put back into office.....

2 Things spring to mind...

1. We have stopped all operations...

2. The enemy knows that they have Won, that we are leaving...

Press..... crickets....

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 19, 2013 02:46 PM (lZBBB)

55 >>>A cult of personality? Centered around whom?

"people like me"

drunk on self-flattery is still drunk.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:46 PM (LCRYB)

56 Tea Party Sturmabteilung is more like it.

Who do they think this helps their case with?

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 02:46 PM (GGCsk)

57 I am not a Wizard. But I used to play for them.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at February 19, 2013 02:46 PM (wbmaj)

58 I think a Roman Toga, with a row of daggers, is a better image, you know how they cleaned them, back in the dady, right?

Posted by: archie goodwin at February 19, 2013 02:46 PM (Jsiw/)

59 When I speak of and think about the tea party, I do not think of any political organization. To me, the tea party is basically the base. Its a grass roots efforts, that to me should remain decentralized.

Posted by: SH at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (gmeXX)

60 "the tea party is primarily related to fiscal issues"

it depends. it partially may be because fiscal issues are officially the one "acceptable" thing to talk about that don't get you labeled as a sexist/homophobe/racist/[insert other liberal dismissal here]. everything i've seen (not talking smear pieces,) poll-wise and reporting, indicates that Tea Partiers are conservative across the board

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (60GaT)

61 If the orginal photo was of Himmler, it could be a message. Like a check into the boards kind of message.

Posted by: E. at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (bLmSl)

62 Forgot to add:

The enemy is not just Obama and the Dems. The enemy is all those who get on their knees to suck down and swallow all the transie idiocy pumped out by the destructionists, and that includes a huge portion of the old guard R program.

The very best that can be said of the OG Rs is that they are quislings to the destructionists that dominate the Ds.

Posted by: Grimmy at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (uUsh9)

63 >>>A cult of personality? Centered around whom?

I did. I tend not to believe such excuses when they come from anyone; neither do you, except when it comes from your Rah Rah Go Team Go tribe.

Further, the Nazi picture isn't even what I'm focusing on: I'm focusing on this utterly childish Go Team Go thing.

You do realize this is all intraparty jockeying for advantage, right? And fundraising?

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (LCRYB)

64 Karl Rove is no fucking conservative, he's a big government asshole.

Why do you feel the need to keep defending him? He's a piece of shit and the sooner he is gone the better for actual conservatives.

Posted by: nitpicker at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (mJ950)

65
is it fair to discard "this Tea Party thing" because of a few idiots?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 19, 2013 02:48 PM (QVBzT)

66 Five day forecast

Monday: We're fucked

Tuesday: We're fucked

Wednesday: We're fucked

Thursday: We're fucked

Friday: We're fucked

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 19, 2013 02:48 PM (t8Rip)

67 >>But this intramural stuff? Does literally everything now have to be Rah-Rah and Go Team Go?

Have you forgotten the great works of Desmond Morris?

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (epxV4)

68 Ace, did you paste the wrong thing in 63?

Posted by: Kensington at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (/AHDz)

69 just a downsizing of the overall picture. Dems v. Repubs is essentially the same exact thing. Getting a Dem to vote Repub is like getting a Michigan Football fan to cheer for Ohio State in MI home stadium.



These idiots have just adjusted the lunacy to a smaller level. It is completely backwards to what must be done.



At some point, someone has to succeed in getting a large number of Dems to understand that the team they think they are supporting is not the same team they supported in the past. Actions like this one will make that effort so much harder.

Posted by: jc at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (i8c5b)

70 >>>Why do you feel the need to keep defending him?

because I do think it's important to have a *realistic* appraisal of a candidate's appeal -- not just the appeal we HOPE and PRAY for.

Hope and prayer is not a strategy.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (LCRYB)

71 Karl Rove has his uses. As does the establishment. We cannot let OURSELVES be divided. We must UNITE ourselves. But what do WE stand for.

Answer that question, and all shall fall into place.

Posted by: Prescient11 at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (tVTLU)

72 The problem with a leaderless movement is that any jackhole can claim a leadership role.

Defeat Rove in the Primaries, jackoffs.


And spend the rest of your Nazi-uniformitizing time on Axelrod and Jugears.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (j2lYi)

73 "According to a statement from Tea Party Patriots, the organization asked that the email use a link to a Bing Image of Karl Rove thumbing his nose – but the email vendor used the next image in what appeared to be a slideshow – the Karl Rove Nazi photo.

We did not know about or approve a manufactured image added to a recent email from the Tea Party Patriots. It was added by an outside vendor. The image was inappropriate and we have ordered the vendor to immediately cease further use of the image," explained the Tea Party Patriots' co-founder Jenny Beth Martin in a statement."

It could have happened that way. Are they lying?

Posted by: toby928© for TB at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (evdj2)

74 I'm focusing on this utterly childish Go Team Go thing.







Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (LCRYB)


And yet, here you are doing it.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (da5Wo)

75 42
"The tea party is not one voice"

convenient


Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:44 PM (60GaT)


But accurate. I know complexity is hard for some, but not everyone holds the same opinion as his neighbor, no matter how hard sociologists want to pigeon-hole folks by race, religion, political party, etc. The Tea Party is the first to come along in a great while that understands this complexity, so it limits itself to primarily fiscal issues to avoid all the crap-slinging that Rove and his ilk engage in.

Posted by: tcn at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (VLG62)

76 kensington yes I pasted the wrong thing; I meant ot post "Read the article" there.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (LCRYB)

77 This is a party of factions, like the Balkans, who never sit down and talk to each other. They just hurl insults, accusations and criticize every idea just because.

That includes the talk-show host who sit in their ivory towers and hurl invective at every idea and provide very little constructive input.

I'm sick of the whole thing. Conservatives this, Establishment that- as if it makes a difference.

Get off your ass and contribute. Sit down in a room and come up with a plan we can all agree on.

Unless you are part of trying to do something, collectively, STFU.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 02:49 PM (GGCsk)

78
Who are the Tea Party Patriots, Ace?

Are they THE Tea Party? A large faction thereof? A small one?

Don't you think it would be helpful to include some degree of context before we go condemning the entire segment of the population for a stupid, childish stunt?

Posted by: BurtTC at February 19, 2013 02:50 PM (TOk1P)

79 Your point is Karl Rove started it and the Tea Party is playing tit for tat?

Welcome to the human race.

;-)

Posted by: Pastorius at February 19, 2013 02:50 PM (gMAUH)

80 Did someone say wuv woo?

Posted by: Suddenly, a flying purple hippo in a top hat appears at February 19, 2013 02:50 PM (A2iqW)

81 It's a free speech issue.

Everyone has a right to do what they will with their campaign fundraising.

The Tea Party wanted to take out the Establishment--now there is an equal but opposite reaction to that.

It's political physics. I don't know why the Tea Party wants to somehow outlaw the rules of political physics in a way.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 02:50 PM (r2PLg)

82 To recap:

The Speaker of the House today tweeted that he considers the sequester to be bad policy. A 44 billion cut in a 3+ trillion budget--that he personally voted for.

Karl Rove throws down the gauntlet to the Tea Party.

The Tea Party reciprocates.

McCain will fold on Hagel at any moment.

And somehow, we should stick up for the GOP.

Ace, this is only the second time you lost me (TARP was the other).

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2013 02:50 PM (kNqmp)

83 >>>And yet, here you are doing it.

Yes I'm focusing on it to the extent I say, "We ought not to do this."

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:50 PM (LCRYB)

84 The image came from some website called madmikesamerica.....and from a quick look at the site, it's not exactly a site the Tea Party would associate themselves with.


Stupid error yes.......OMGZ THE TEA PARTY CULT!!!! No.

Posted by: Tami at February 19, 2013 02:50 PM (X6akg)

85 The difference between Rove and Christie is about 150 pounds.

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (OlN4e)

86 because I do think it's important to have a *realistic* appraisal of a
candidate's appeal -- not just the appeal we HOPE and PRAY for.



Has Rove ever shown brilliant judgment in the past? I keep thinking Dede Scozzafava.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (8ZskC)

87 Karl Rove is many things, but the Nazi reference is just ridiculous.

This is why I don't join clubs or organizations. Sooner or later someone in the club does something totally asinine and some of that stink gets on you.


Jeebus... whoever did this is an idiot.

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (8sCoq)

88 "The R doesn't stand for conservatives anymore."
By Grimly

^^This^^!!

Rove and his bunch of power hungry, screw the people Rs can spit grits as far as I'm concerned.
I had thought you were beginning to see through his type ace. Guess I was wrong. Again.

Posted by: teej at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (Vzh0K)

89 According to the linked article, the Tea Party Patriots organization responsible for the emaildisavowed the Karl Rove as Nazi schtick, saying it was added without their knowledge or approval by an outside vendor, so there's that. Either they're lying or they're not. If they're lying, they deserve whatever loss of credibility and support they get as a result of this.

The Establishment hasn't been acting in good faith, if it comes to that, I don't like that Karl Rove claims to use the Buckley rule regarding 'electable conservatives' while simultaneously (and disengenuously) using straw men like Akin as somehow representative of 'sure to lose' Tea Party conservativism. Akin won the Missouri primaries as a result of Claire McCaskill's people urging Democrats to cross-over and vote in the GOP primaries for the weakest Republican candidate, an old Chicago trick. Akin was obviously the weakest candidate, and later proved it by opening his big, stupid mouth and saying big, stupid things.

The loss of Dick Lugar's 'safe' senate seatis also used as an example of Tea Party malfeasance. Not a Tea Partier myself, I voted for Mourdock and against Lugar in the Indiana primary because Lugar had become a creature of the Beltway, ideologically indistinguishable from Democrats, and has been a resident of Virginia for the last 20 years. I don't know about you, but I want those who represent my state to, you know, actually live in my state. Mourdock admittedly wasn't a strong Republican candidate for national office, but in a very real sense, Lugar wasn't a Republican at all.

And O'Donnell? She looked good on paper. Too bad she lied on paper. I'm glad she wasn't a witch, though.

Posted by: troyriser at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (vtiE6)

90 Rove has been openly hostile to those on the right of him, calling them out by name. I'm not saying I'm comfortable with this. I am saying Rove is far from blameless in this matter. Rove has a list of not only growing government in the fascist direction (not to allude to Hitler who seems perpetually welded to any discussion of fascism but fascism in the general sense, what exactly is Homeland Security?) along with opposition using unkind, and to an extent unfounded characterizations of candidates he did not like. He has not acted as a simple above the board politician, he has engaged in the very activities you decry from the tea party; just doing so at a level at which you approve.

The Hitler thing over the top, and should have never have gotten released, but it is not a henny penny moment either.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (0q2P7)

91 >>>Karl Rove throws down the gauntlet to the Tea Party.

Laugh. His "gauntlet" was his suggestion that there ought to be some consideration of candidate quality and likely chances of winning in this equation.

Which is apparently too much for the Drunk on Their Own Virtue brigade to hear.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (LCRYB)

92 War on black women!


Jay Carney to black female reporter asking about sequestration-

"this is complicated budget-speak"


So can she not understand it because she is black, or because womyn?

Posted by: RWC at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (fWAjv)

93 Got the point about the vendor. Nazi's are old hat, anyway- need something more modern.

That said my local Tea Party really seems to have lost focus. There were 2 chapters- Island and mainland. The Island chapter got all butthurt last year and dissolved itself. The mainland one is too hard for me to get to, usually, but they don't seem to be doing anything but meeting once a month. OTOH it seems composed mostly of women- maybe I should use it as a dating service.

Posted by: backhoe at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (ULH4o)

94 At what point do I actually have to sign Loyalty Oaths?

The CA GOP had a pledge for those who wanted to volunteer.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (Ipj15)

95 You do realize this is all intraparty jockeying for advantage, right? And fundraising?





Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (LCRYB)


Yeah, Ace, that's called politics, remember?

Posted by: tcn at February 19, 2013 02:52 PM (VLG62)

96
We can fight all we want, or we could all be unified on every issue. In the end, the media is going to make it a primary objective to makeour sideappear stupid.

Posted by: California Red at February 19, 2013 02:52 PM (cB0VK)

97 Frankly, the problem I have with factionalism is that my faction is not winning.

Posted by: toby928© pontificates in oracular tones of banality at February 19, 2013 02:52 PM (evdj2)

98 I got a newsletter from my township last week, bragging about not raising taxes in the past 10 years.

I'm sure that's because they fear the wrath of 'establishment Republicans' in this town.

Posted by: Regular Moron at February 19, 2013 02:52 PM (feFL6)

99 Might I point out that if the Goddamned Republican Party and its professional apparatus would occasionally engage in some actual fucking conservatism they would have to worry about freak candidates and ad hoc parties on their right.

Give the Dems control of the House and the Senate and the White House for two years and the pass their holy grail of national health care--the libs get what they want.

Give the GOP control of the House and the Senate and the White House for four years and you get "No Child Left Behind", a new prescription drug benefit, and attempt to cram amnesty for illegal aliens down every one's throat--in short the libs still get what they want.

If the GOP wants to avoid challenges from the right then they should pick up the right's agenda and start fucking acting on it.

PS Yes, I despise Rove more than Axelrod. Axelrod fucks over me and mine because it is his job--Rove does it for fun.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 02:52 PM (KAWvv)

100 *face palm*

Posted by: Serious Cat at February 19, 2013 02:52 PM (UypUQ)

101 Rove is a guy who judges party success by how many congressmen have Rs after their name. Nothing more.

That's a big part of the reason that we are where we are.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 19, 2013 02:53 PM (8ZskC)

102 49 >>>I'd want to make Rove and the RNSC sign oaths to support candidates which win the Republican primaries given some of the temper tantrums they had in 2010 over O'Donnell, Rand Paul, and Joe Miller.

We all did support them. Please get over the butthurt that you were told COD was a loser, you didn't listen, you bet differently, you were wrong, but can't seem to admit that.

You are looking for Stabbed in the Back excuses for yourself when the truth is right simple, if slightly painful to the ego: You were wrong, I was right.

There is no shame in being wrong.

There is shame in persisting in being wrong.

---

Ace, try reading my fucking response before running me down.

O'Donnell was a shitty candidate but Rove killed her dead before she got a chance to do it herself because he had a goddamn hissy fit on Fox News when that election was called.

Joe Miller, OTOH, won the primary but got fucked by the RNSC and the Senate leadership falling in behind Murkowski in both a recount and a write-in ballot.

I mention Paul with those three because he beat a hand-picked RNSC opponent and went on to win the election.

All I ask is that Rove and the Republican braintrust don't fuck over the elected candidates ***before*** they have a chance to show what they can do.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 02:53 PM (e0xKF)

103 75

it doesn't matter how "complex" or leaderless a movement is, you have a certain public image, you're responsible for it and don't get a pass for BS by copping out to "oh well you know we've got a lot of different people"



Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:53 PM (60GaT)

104
Ace is right in this is politically a loser for us, which is exactly what we don't need.

Ace is wrong in that we need to consider to shut down "this Tea Party thing," of that is indeed his point.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 19, 2013 02:54 PM (wAng0)

105 >>>Yeah, Ace, that's called politics, remember?

It's called "bad politics," too.

Do what you like. Start passing out the Loyalty Oaths. That should work. That ought to attract people from the outside.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:54 PM (LCRYB)

106 I got the email. My question is what candidate that I gave money to gave them my email address?

Posted by: Billy Bob, The guy who drinks in SC at February 19, 2013 02:54 PM (wR+pz)

107 Rove is a guy who judges party success by how many congressmen have Rs after their name. Nothing more.

That's a big part of the reason that we are where we are.

***

Considering how many people were defending Sanford this morning, I would tend to agree.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 02:54 PM (piMMO)

108 You do realize this is all intraparty jockeying for advantage, right? And fundraising?
Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (LCRYB)

Yeah, Ace, that's called politics, remember?

Posted by: tcn


Gentlemen, please! There'll be no politicking in the Party Room.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 02:54 PM (Ipj15)

109 If they used the Nazi image on purpose, I'd be all over them for using the same stupid, backward tactics as the Left. But the guy clearly states it wasn't deliberate and was actually done by an outside vendor.Let's chillax on the hyper-overreactions until there's something to react to. Unless the theory is that they did it and then immedfiately lied about it, which makes zero sense.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 19, 2013 02:55 PM (ZshNr)

110 I have seen this behavior before. From Ace I mean.

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 02:55 PM (11Tdq)

111 "it depends. it partially may be because fiscal issues are officially the one "acceptable" thing to talk about that don't get you labeled as a sexist/homophobe/racist/[insert other liberal dismissal here]. everything i've seen (not talking smear pieces,) poll-wise and reporting, indicates that Tea Partiers are conservative across the board"

See that was the cool thing about it in the beginning, it kind of dispensed with all the other issues, so you could get a wide swath of the population to kind of put aside social type issues, and get everyone out in the street with pitchforks about their future being destroyed by the big spenders.

Hey I am pretty conservative I agree with most social con issues, I have a federalist streak in me so I'd like to see a lot more stuff left up to the states. But I know where to go and who to donate to, for support on those issues. I liked having the big tent on just the fiscal stuff, so we could tell incumbent politicians we were coming after them, regardless of what their other stances might be.

Posted by: dr. shatterhand at February 19, 2013 02:55 PM (n/ogz)

112 Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 02:45 PM (Ipj15)

Yeah, you know what? I'm going with the "we told the vendor to use the photo of him thumbing his nose" story and leave it at that.

Otherwise, Rove can kiss my fuzzy ass.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at February 19, 2013 02:55 PM (Qxdfp)

113 88 I think it is also interesting that The Walking Dead shows us how to not deal with progressives. Hershel was rounding up zombies to wait for a cure. Governor Elvis wanted to experiment so he could cure his daughter. Same basic idea as the RINOs have in dealing with progs: we'll be nice to them and then some day in the distant future, they will be nice to us. It didn't work well for Hershel, it didn't work well for Governor Elvis, and it has not and will not work for McCain and his ilk. You try to be as nice to them as possible and you get a delivery van full of zombies driven into your compound.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 19, 2013 02:55 PM (t8Rip)

114 I hope the political wilderness has cable.

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 19, 2013 02:55 PM (8sCoq)

115
oh ok, if they were scammed then, never mind.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 19, 2013 02:55 PM (p/cQy)

116 At least Rove is trying to do something and has the balls to go on TV and explain himself.

I don't necessarily agree with everything he is doing- but he is trying. You might not like it and that's your right. But how about some constructive engagement rather than- Rove is an establishment crony bullshit.

Same with Boehner. I can't stand the guy- but he's finally trying to get everybody reading from the same sheet of music. Does he get help? No, just a bunch of people mostly on radio and sourcing anonymous quotes which try to cut him down.

We talk about being the party of ideas and then we senselessly attack every idea someone in the party has. That's not constructive intellectual engagement. It's sophomoric, thoughtless, inflexible and contra-intellectual.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (GGCsk)

117 >>>Ace is wrong in that we need to consider to shut down "this Tea Party thing," of that is indeed his point.

Ace is saying that the Tea Party's assertion that it can do no wrong and that therefore everyone should have 100% loyalty towards it (even though, as will be pointed out in its defense, it has no single voice, and thus no one knows what one is being loyal towards, exactly) is getting on my last nerve.

As between putting Obama on a Throne and putting an amorphous group without a clear agenda on a Throne I would say the latter is better.

I don't either one is good, though.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (LCRYB)

118 Karl Rove has his uses.

If he wanted to show his effectiveness, he'd clear the field for a genuine opposition to Sanford in SC-1, for instance.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (T0NGe)

119 Which is apparently too much for the Drunk on Their Own Virtue brigade to hear.





Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (LCRYB)


And now you're doing the same. A plausible explanation was given for the stupid thing done. But you're so busy being right that you reject it out of hand.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (da5Wo)

120 At what point do I actually have to sign Loyalty Oaths?

AFAIK all of the state GOPs have one. I would be surprised if the national RNC didn't.

His "gauntlet" was his suggestion that there ought to be some consideration of candidate quality and likely chances of winning in this equation.

No, his gauntlet was that candidates should not be in any way conservative because it might scare the rubes, even in deep-red states.

Ace, we get it, you think you won't get any pussy without sounding like a liberal Democrat. That's fine, just go for it and we'll all go to H2 and leave you alone.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (B/VB5)

121 This is tendentious as shit.
.
This is the "moderate purity brigade" demanding purity in the name of opposing purity drives, and using distorted "evidence" to boot.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (e/OuK)

122 Yup. Stab em in the back. Throw em under the bus. Then when they don't win...
"See, I told ya so."

The same treatment Sarah gets from elitest pubs.
Then more of their juvenile "See, I told ya so."

Posted by: teej at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (RACuL)

123 Rove = collusion with New World Order (a Bush expression)

Posted by: JDavid at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (xZCgA)

124 Rove can kiss my conservative ass..
Now for a very important announcement...



Studies by this former Detroiter shows use of firearms by Black and Hispanics causes a disproportionate amount of homicides as compared to Caucasians and Asians..


And that is Transparency my fellow Americans

Posted by: Clemenza at February 19, 2013 02:56 PM (x59Gv)

125 because I do think it's important to have a *realistic* appraisal of a candidate's appeal -- not just the appeal we HOPE and PRAY for

---
Ace, who are you arguing with here? If it is the COD supporters, why? 2010 was 2 cycles ago, and it was a much different set of circumstances.

Posted by: SH at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (gmeXX)

126
I don't believe the Tea Party movement/idea/activism is a liabilty, is what I'm saying.

Karl Rove on the other hand...

Posted by: soothsayer at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (vuIm8)

127 We talk about being the party of ideas and then we senselessly attack
every idea someone in the party has. That's not constructive
intellectual engagement. It's sophomoric, thoughtless, inflexible and
contra-intellectual.



I'll take back that issue of How To Win Friends and Influence People that you borrowed now.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (8ZskC)

128 the easily-activated human tendency to think in terms of teams and tribes, which leads to personalization of and emotional investment in subjects which are actually quite impersonal and which ought to be considered with the chilly remove of reason

The more personal and emotional a political party gets, the less attention I pay to it.

TEA (Taxed Enough Already Party ought to just stick to that.

I'm a member, but I feel like what one of those non-practicing Catholics probably feel about Catholicism at this point.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (Qxe/p)

129 >>>We talk about being the party of ideas and then we senselessly attack every idea someone in the party has. That's not constructive intellectual engagement. It's sophomoric, thoughtless, inflexible and contra-intellectual.

this. We are the Party of Ideas, unless you have Different Ideas, in which case you must be driven out.

Like GOProud at CPAC.

Confident people do not need to play exclusion games.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (LCRYB)

130 Do what you like. Start passing out the Loyalty Oaths. That should work. That ought to attract people from the outside.

Posted by: ace


Your snark is undercut by the fact that a huge number of local GOP precincts have pledges.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (Ipj15)

131
The Boston Globe loves it some Karl Rove.
http://tinyurl.com/agk5y7w

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (OlN4e)

132 Inside baseball, move on.

Meh.

Posted by: Billy Bob, The guy who drinks in SC at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (wR+pz)

133 Who drew first blood?

Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (OQpzc)

134 Well that's just stupid.

Posted by: Y-not channels the smart set at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (5H6zj)

135 Ace Quixote have found who is behind 16 trillion dollar debt, the tea party.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (AWmfW)

136 Do you think we can get Mike Castle and Charlie Crist back if we tell them we're sorry and we were wrong?

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 02:58 PM (ZDsRL)

137 If they used the Nazi image on purpose, I'd be all over them for using
the same stupid, backward tactics as the Left. But the guy clearly
states it wasn't deliberate and was actually done by an outside vendor.


Again- who the fuck requires the services of an "outside vendor" to copy and paste an image into an e-mail?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 02:58 PM (SY2Kh)

138 *steps into thread*


*reads main post*


*slinks into corner to avoid circular firing squad*

Posted by: Kinley Ardal, engage lurking device pronto at February 19, 2013 02:58 PM (his4q)

139 Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 02:47 PM (60GaT)


Looks regional to me.... out in California the TEA party folks are a combo of 'Standard' Conservatives, and small L libertarians... brought together under the Fiscal Banner.... ie... the thing they AGREE on not the things they DO NOT Agree on...

You know.... trying to build a Majority?

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 19, 2013 02:58 PM (lZBBB)

140 Your snark is undercut by the fact that a huge number of local GOP precincts have pledges.

---

And, frankly, more of them should have them for delegates in Presidential primaries if the Paultards are any indication.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 02:58 PM (e0xKF)

141 I do think people conflate religion with politics.

They seem to demand 100% compliance.

There is a really old William Safire quote that I just read at Commentary.

“Nothing is more certain in politics,” than the crushing defeat of a faction that holds ideological purity to be of greater value than compromise.”

Funny thing is William Safire--at the time--was writing about George McGovern era Democrats.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 02:58 PM (r2PLg)

142 Bush/Rove gave us Obama/New World Order

Posted by: JDavid at February 19, 2013 02:58 PM (xZCgA)

143 >>>I'm a member, but I feel like what one of those non-practicing Catholics probably feel about Catholicism at this point.

well this is what I mean to. Do I agree with their substance? Yes.

But do I agree with this *procedure*? No. I think it's juvenile, anti-reason, passion-inflaming, mob-gathering horsehshit. I want nothing to do with it as I want nothing to do with anyone who pushes such horseshit.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (LCRYB)

144 His "gauntlet" was his suggestion that there ought to be some consideration of candidate quality and likely chances of winning in this equation.
Yes, Ace--exactly--HE and the Beltway nitwits decide the quality, not the voters. Yes, Akin sucked. Rubio and Cruz do not. I'm just a tad more comfortable with the voters picking things than say, Rove or John Cornyn.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (EDjKF)

145 And O'Donnell? She looked good on paper. Too bad she lied on paper. I'm glad she wasn't a witch, though.

Posted by: troyriser at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (vtiE6)



I wish she was a witch cuz with the assortment of lame-asses we have leading the party, the only way we'll win is through magic.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (j2lYi)

146 >Yeah, Ace, that's called politics, remember?

Posted by: tcn<

No. It's called abject stupidity. And it's destroying the party.

How about one big meeting between all in the GOP? No public quotes. No leaks- before or after. A bunch of people go in, kick each other in the nads, get all the hostility out and emerge as a single party?

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (GGCsk)

147 Late to thread but


Ace you are right, we should not be doing this. But Rove is the SOB that started it. Piss on Rove.

Posted by: Vic at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (53z96)

148 When the GOP had the power in Washington what agencies or departments did the shut down?

What regulatory regimes did they rein in?

What measurable quantifiable increase in freedom did we achieve?

Not fuck all.

And now they want to turn and whine because the amateurs, whatever their flaws as candidates or spokes people, have at least enough wit to recognize the utter uselessness of the current GOP and are trying to do something about it.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (KAWvv)

149 Like GOProud at CPAC.



Confident people do not need to play exclusion games.





Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:57 PM (LCRYB)


Oh for fuck's sake. GOProud are a bunch of assholes that can go take a flying leap. I wouldn't want them anywhere near any organization I had. But hey, they're gay, so they get a pass I guess. Big tent and all, right?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (da5Wo)

150 Thinkin' it don't make it so.

Posted by: JDavid at February 19, 2013 03:00 PM (xZCgA)

151 So, what we have here is a professional political fundraising organization accusing another professional political fundraising organization of not being pure enough.


Did you read the link where the organization specifically says that it did NOT approve that image? Because that kind of Roseanne Roseannadanna's your post.

Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 19, 2013 03:00 PM (VtjlW)

152
109 -

Ssshhh! Ace has an axe to grind. There will be no facts entered into the discussion!

Posted by: BurtTC at February 19, 2013 03:00 PM (TOk1P)

153 >>>Um, did you not read the whole link you provided? The tea party did NOT
put a photo of Karl Rove in a Nazi uniform in their email. Some vendor
added the image.


You would have to be extremely stupid, or extremely willing to believe whatever bullshit is spoonfed you by your own "tribe," to believe this.

A VENDOR is going to be performing the simple task of copy/pasting for this fundraising e-mail? Sure.

Of course it was done by the TPP. Blaming a third party is just standard ass-covering. And also, it presumes that they didn't even look at their own fundraising e-mail before it was sent out. Which is of course preposterous. How come nobody stopped and said "oh wait dood that's Karl Rove in a Nazi uniform, not cool"?

Answer: because it's an ass-covering lie so transparent you're not even intended to believe it. It's just a formality.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:00 PM (bcLhD)

154 Ace is saying that the Tea Party's assertion that it can do no wrong and that therefore everyone should have 100% loyalty towards it (even though, as will be pointed out in its defense, it has no single voice, and thus no one knows what one is being loyal towards, exactly) is getting on my last nerve.

----
Ace, again who are you arguing with here. Who is espousing this viewpoint? Both sides are going to be right from time to time and both sides are going to be wrong from time to time. For those of us who might call themselves tea partiers, all we want is a fair shake, and if our candidate wins, we want support from the party. That's it. Then if a candidate loses, its time to reassess and learn lessons.

Posted by: SH at February 19, 2013 03:00 PM (gmeXX)

155 The Left has been using that imagery for forty years and is has worked.

Posted by: JDavid at February 19, 2013 03:00 PM (xZCgA)

156 You vill comply and you vill LIKE IT!!!!

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at February 19, 2013 03:00 PM (uhftQ)

157 But do I agree with this *procedure*? No. I think
it's juvenile, anti-reason, passion-inflaming, mob-gathering horsehshit.
I want nothing to do with it as I want nothing to do with anyone who
pushes such horseshit.





Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (LCRYB)


WHAT procedure?! WHO is pushing such horseshit?!

Posted by: Tami at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (X6akg)

158 Did you read the linked article?

Over reacting Ace over reacting again.

Who was it that said something about anorexics starving their way to health.


Posted by: ThomasD at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (sPW8y)

159
It's called "bad politics," too.



Do what you like. Start passing out the Loyalty Oaths. That should work. That ought to attract people from the outside.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:54 PM (LCRYB)


Yeah, Ace, that's exactly what the tea party is all about. Loyalty oaths. And monkeys are gonna fly outta your butt.

If anyone is asking for loyalty oaths, that would be Rove and his buddies. He seems to think only those candidates anointed by him should be supported, since he is apparently more savvy about winning than anyone else. I guess we should judge the poisin by its fruits, eh?

Posted by: tcn at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (VLG62)

160 We go around telling a lot of people essentially this formula--

"If you don't believe in "X"--you are not a Conservative."

We should be doing the exact opposite.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (r2PLg)

161
Karl Rove and theestablishmentGOP simply do not represent me. I am a fool to keep thinking that they do.

Posted by: California Red at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (cB0VK)

162 Yes, Ace--exactly--HE and the Beltway nitwits decide the quality, not the voters. Yes, Akin sucked. Rubio and Cruz do not. I'm just a tad more comfortable with the voters picking things than say, Rove or John Cornyn.

---

Bingo.

If Rove and Cornyn had their way, we wouldn't have Rand Paul, Pat Toomey, Marco Rubio, or Ted Cruz in office.

Running Specter again instead of Toomey, as a specific example, would have been lose-lose for Republicans given that both he and the Dem candidate would have rolled over for Obama.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (e0xKF)

163 Don't speak ill of other Republicans.

Posted by: Reagan's Rightous Revenant at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (3tFLC)

164 but I feel like what one of those non-practicing Catholics probably feel about Catholicism at this point.

I feel like I do when people cite that family of freaks outta Topeka as definitive proof Christianity is evil.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (/kI1Q)

165 A bunch of people go in, kick each other in the nads, get all the hostility out and emerge as a single party?

Will that single party stand for anything besides "reaching across the aisle" and collegial backslapping? My bet: probably not.

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (8ZskC)

166 So the vendor doesn't exist? Is that the working theory?

Posted by: lincolntf at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (ZshNr)

167
>>>Laugh. His "gauntlet" was his suggestion that there ought to be
some consideration of candidate quality and likely chances of winning in
this equation.

That's intellectually dishonest. He doesn't merely say "We should consider electability" he uses specific and in some cases unwarranted characterizations of his opponents views. Or have you forgot how he treated Perry?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (0q2P7)

168 A VENDOR is going to be performing the simple task of copy/pasting for this fundraising e-mail? Sure.

Actually yes. You think a secretary in some office has an email list of a million people and just presses Send?

Posted by: toby928© pontificates in oracular tones of banality at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (evdj2)

169
"PS Yes, I despise Rove more than Axelrod. Axelrod fucks over me and mine because it is his job--Rove does it for fun."

Nobody ever said a good paying gig couldn't be a lot of fun too. Now bend over. I ain't done yet.

Posted by: Karl at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (4I3Uo)

170 But this intramural stuff? Does literally everything now have to be Rah-Rah and Go Team Go?

No, but it would be nice if McCain, Cupp, Scarborough, and others did it for Republicans once in a while instead of Democrats most of the time

Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:02 PM (mCvL4)

171 >>>Yup. Stab em in the back. Throw em under the bus. Then when they don't win...
"See, I told ya so."

The same treatment Sarah gets from elitest pubs.
Then more of their juvenile "See, I told ya so."

we did tell you, and it just burns you up inside. Hence, the claim that we weren't RIGHT; what we were were TRAITORS who sabotaged candidates who would have won (but for our Jew-like stab in the back).

The Stab in the Back theory was announced by Hitler about WWI.

Always has to be scapegoat.

People don't want to hear they were wrong; they want to hear they were RIGHT, but they were cheated out of victory by a group of plotting malefactors who just want the worst for everyone.

Rah rah go team go.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:02 PM (LCRYB)

172 about GOProud, unless the Republican Party switches its stance on same-sex marriage (which i realize a not-insignificant amount of people want it to,) including them makes as much sense as, i dunno, Republicans for Infinite Keynesian Stimulus.


Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:02 PM (60GaT)

173 Unless you are part of trying to do something, collectively, STFU.

I don't do "collectively". I treat my home, and my property like my own country and I participate in this redistributive economy as little as possible.

Money isn't the only thing that gets redistributed in a collective society/organization.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at February 19, 2013 03:02 PM (XwaL+)

174 well this is what I mean to. Do I agree with their substance? Yes. But do I agree with this *procedure*? No. I think it's juvenile, anti-reason, passion-inflaming, mob-gathering horsehshit. I want nothing to do with it as I want nothing to do with anyone who pushes such horseshit.
Posted by: ace
***

So you're saying they aren't pure enough? /

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at February 19, 2013 03:02 PM (uhftQ)

175 Like GOProud at CPAC.


***

Isn't this a bit of an over-simplification of that issue?

IIRC gays are not banned from CPAC, but an organization that chose to start "outing" conservatives and took a hard stance against anyone who sought to maintain the traditional definition of marriage was.

This fight has already gone on too long and is too ugly.

If your insider perspective is different than my understanding of the issue, please clarify.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 03:02 PM (piMMO)

176 Dead Elephant Party hearts "cooperation" and "Bi-partisanship".

When you compromise with evil you get EVIL.

Posted by: JDavid at February 19, 2013 03:03 PM (xZCgA)

177 Answer: because it's an ass-covering lie so transparent you're not even intended to believe it. It's just a formality.

Posted by: Jeff B.


And you know it's a lie how?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:03 PM (Ipj15)

178 Again- who the fuck requires the services of an "outside vendor" to copy and paste an image into an e-mail?

It's quite common these days to have firms like Constant Contact that specialize in assembling and sending bulk emails to do that kind of thing, actually. Because not every business/organization has the in-house IT talent and specialized software to do that stuff efficiently. (Except for Obama for America of course, which is apparently an unstoppable marvel of modern technology).

Posted by: Ian S. at February 19, 2013 03:03 PM (B/VB5)

179 Zeb Colter will save us.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 19, 2013 03:03 PM (ZPrif)

180 I think Rove and his groovy white board thing should go the way of the guy with brown teeth (Dick Morris). I briefly noted that he was on FOX last night when looking through channels. O'Reilly? I don't watch any of these shows anymore, so not sure.

I have not liked Rove for a long, long time. He is done. Go away!

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at February 19, 2013 03:03 PM (baL2B)

181
you know, in the end its all politics
so rove and the tea party should fight it out for candidates, makes for better candidates imo
but the screw up is once the primary is won, everyone should back that candidate 100%

but then again....i'm a democrat so who gives a shit what you guys do

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:03 PM (660FR)

182 So based on this single occurrence, the Tea Party is now a cult of personality and a circus?

The Tea Party is grassroots. It has no central structure; no administration. The "Tea Party Express" is nothing more than a political group that shares the values of the Tea Party. To cite a single instance of behavior you find to be over the line(and I don't entirely disagree with you) is being a bit hypersensitive, isn't it?

Posted by: MadisonConservative at February 19, 2013 03:03 PM (Y/HG5)

183 Ace you are right, we should not be doing this. But Rove is the SOB that started it. Piss on Rove.


Posted by: Vic at February 19, 2013 02:59 PM (53z96)

But the tea party should just take it laying down.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (AWmfW)

184 ONLY THE CUBS CAN WIN THE 2013 WORLD SERIES
Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (660FR)



*sidles over*

Stop bogarting, dude.

Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (VtjlW)

185
I can see an outside vendor doing it. I recall many stories of actual printed mail going out from democrats that got changed and not reviewed. We made fun of it. It happens.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (p/cQy)

186 >>>It could have happened that way. Are they lying?

No, it could NOT have happened that way, as anyone familiar with the fundraising arms of political organizations knows. Yes, they are lying.

As I said above, it's not even a lie that's supposed to be BELIEVED by insiders and politicos. It's merely a required political formality. They exercised terrible judgment, and people here are exercising even more terrible judgment by credulously buying a transparently fake explanation because hey Karl Rove is so GOP establishment, amirite?

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (bcLhD)

187 This has to be said again;

If a moderate or RINO wins the nomination, we're told to hold our nose and "do it for the team"

If a conservative who isn't approved by the establishment wins, the Roves of the party pick up their bats and balls and go home, then shit on the nominee. Some of them get in such a snit they switch parties

Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (mCvL4)

188
Are we sure this isn't some Dim psy-op designed to elicit this exact reaction?

Jus' sayin', it's not like we conservatives haven't been set-up before that way.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (+z4pE)

189 My understanding has been the Tea Party as a whole is made up of several factions, Tea Party Patriots just being one. I don't think Freedom Works or Tea Party Express have released anything like this...

Posted by: liquidflorian at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (Kx/oz)

190 >>>He doesn't merely say "We should consider electability" he uses specific and in some cases unwarranted characterizations of his opponents views. Or have you forgot how he treated Perry?

As for "How he treated Perry" -- perry turned out to be a very bad candidate. Further, no I don't remember how he treated Perry; I actually have forgotten.

As for the rest, you'll have to cite that for me. I am unaware of the things you say. My brief skim of this controversy (about 10 days back) was that he was saying we can't have more Christine O'Donnells, which is something that everyone who is honest with himself -- and not just a seething ego lashing out at any possible rebuke -- has to admit would be a good thing.

Hope and prayer is not a strategy.

Hope and prayer is not a strategy.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:04 PM (LCRYB)

191


People don't want to hear they were wrong; they want to hear they
were RIGHT, but they were cheated out of victory by a group of plotting
malefactors who just want the worst for everyone.



Rah rah go team go.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:02 PM (LCRYB)

And the award for missing the forest for the trees goes to. . .

Seriously, in what way is commentary like this furthering the cause of party unity? o.O

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (his4q)

192 Shouldn't that have been Kathleen Sebelius instead?

Posted by: wth at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (wAQA5)

193 You know what would calm this shit down, if our damn RINOs who are threatened by the Tea Party would man up and vote with the base a bit. Lets start with Hagel, show me bitches.

Posted by: Jean at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (sTfkB)

194 It's the TEA Party's fault that Rick Perry got shafted...WAAAAAAH!

Posted by: JDavid at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (xZCgA)

195 The Teaparty should reach across the aisle and take that lovely handfull of shit Rove is offering them. Right?

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (OlN4e)

196 >>>If a conservative who isn't approved by the establishment wins, the Roves of the party pick up their bats and balls and go home, then shit on the nominee

yup, they Stab them In the Back.

WWI was completely winnable.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (LCRYB)

197 The Democrats have an easier time because they primarily consist of people with shared assumptions, and people who are too stupid to think for themselves at all.

Republicans, by contrast, consist primarily of more brainy types who hate most of their own party, and people who are at least smart enough to have their own opinions but are not smart enough to be useful in any way outside of voting.

Well, that, and Democrats control pretty much every communications platform save for talk radio.

Posted by: Zippity Doo Dah at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (E55AK)

198 I think we should all listen to Mr. Rove.

Posted by: Charlie Crist at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (8ZskC)

199 WHAT procedure?! WHO is pushing such horseshit?!

---

This, Ace, I'm really not sure who you are arguing with?

----
People don't want to hear they were wrong; they want to hear they were RIGHT, but they were cheated out of victory by a group of plotting malefactors who just want the worst for everyone.
---
What does this mean? Ace, this whole posts seems to be aimed solely at people who wanted COD and now to this day say she was cheated out of a victory. Why are we still talking about COD?

Posted by: SH at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (gmeXX)

200 There has been too much truculence. Too much pain. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. Give me your Party, the TEA, the loyalty oath, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away and we'll give you a safe passageway in the wastelands. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.

Posted by: Lord Humugous of the Political Wasteland at February 19, 2013 03:05 PM (A2iqW)

201

Is there a single Tea Party fundraising organization that isn't either a scam or comprised of complete fuckups?


Posted by: Hollowpoint




No. and I say that as a core demographic for the Tea Party. It's just pandering to the conservative wing instead of accomplishing anything.

Of course, about the only thing to really accomplish is a divorce from the spendthrift majority in this nation, so, it's either Rah-rah or bang-bang, i guess.

Posted by: imp at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (UaxA0)

202 Marco Rubio SOTU response vs Rand Paul's Tea Party response. Karl Rove vs Tea Party. Divide and Conquer is one hell of an effective strategy. A house divided against itself...and all that jazz.

Posted by: Craig Poe at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (BVkEs)

203 Meh, I'm out of this thread. Contuse among yourselves.

Posted by: toby928© pontificates in oracular tones of banality at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (evdj2)

204 I feel like we are collectively being exploited -- and permitting
ourselves to be exploited -- by utilization the easily-activated human
tendency to think in terms of teams and tribes, which leads to personalization of and emotional investment in
subjects which are actually quite impersonal and which ought to be
considered with the chilly remove of reason, not the rah-rah of the
We'll Get 'Em Next Year zeal of the dedicated fan.



Alls I know is I hate Democrats with the white hot yadda yadda.....

That's my team.

Posted by: eleven at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (KXm42)

205 Anybody can start an organization. I would imagine that at some point (maybe even now) you will have some enterprising leftist running something on the right and causing all kinds of mayhem.

Posted by: David at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (J9mCu)

206 I have been a Republican all my voting life. However, the last time they called me a week ago to be exact, I told them to put me on their Do Not Call List. The National Party has made one blunder after another, ad nauseum, with no wins to their credit. They are out of touch and seem to be only able to lose at the most inopportune moments. I am done with them. Individual candidates will get money from me, the GOP as a party gets nothing. I do not think of myself as a Tea Party member, per se, but, at least they seem to want to win, rather than settling for a Gentleman's C.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (kXoT0)

207 When Axlerod demonizes a constituency group of people that most likely will never vote for his party again, that is expected.
When Rove demonizes them, he is pushing them away.

Posted by: yerro at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (9vEzU)

208 Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 03:01 PM (e0xKF)


Hmmmm... thinking on this...

Rove is for a NATIONAL Large group, deciding who should be candidates, by deciding who they will support with Big Bucks.....

Others are saying, let the Locals decide, even if they are wrong...

Hmmm... sounds like a Federalist vs. AntiFederalist thing to me...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (lZBBB)

209 The I Hate Democrats team if I didn't make myself clear.

Posted by: eleven at February 19, 2013 03:06 PM (KXm42)

210 "Ace, again who are you arguing with here. Who is espousing this viewpoint?"

Oh, I remember that guy. He stopped by here a few times and said that everyonehas to be a Tea Partier and everyone has to vote exactly how they say.

Yeah, I saw him.

We'll keep an eye for him. If he comes back around, we'll all tell him that no, we're going to wait for Rove to vetour candidates.

There. Feel better?

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (ZDsRL)

211 You know who was more of a loser then COD, Mike Castle, that's who. He didn't get dumped by some internal straw poll in a smoked filled room - he lost a statewide primary to a rookie. Hmmm, there's a word for that: LOSER.

Posted by: Jean at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (sTfkB)

212 No, it could NOT have happened that way, as anyone familiar with the fundraising arms of political organizations knows. Yes, they are lying.

Posted by: Jeff B.


Jeff B. has no need for facts and evidence.

He shits truth.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (Ipj15)

213
184 Stop bogarting, dude
oh come on, ace should know better than to mention a baseball team while i'm lurking
at least let them lose their first 50 games, shouldn't take too long

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (660FR)

214 The Rs were given a mandate in 2010 to shut Zero down. They chose not to. That's when the brand became shit.

Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (OQpzc)

215 Those Tea Party people are un American and I will do everything in my power to insure that the establishment republicans continue to be re-elected.

Posted by: Karl Rove at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (vYB+W)

216 I think we should all listen to Mr. Rove.

I think we should all listen to Mr. Rove.

Posted by: Jeb W Bush at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (feFL6)

217 Laugh. His "gauntlet" was his suggestion that there ought to be some consideration of candidate quality and likely chances of winning in this equation. Which is apparently too much for the Drunk on Their Own Virtue brigade to hear.
Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (LCRYB)

If that's truly Rove's argument, then he's right: candidates for national office should be vetted for sanity, coherence, political skills and adherence to Republican principles by the GOP. Further, few are arguing that we should put up eccentric losers wearing the Tea Party brand as protest candidates against the GOP Establishment. However, as I write, conservative Ted Cruz is being portrayed as some kind of radical extremist by the MSM, which is (supposedly) using ammunition anonymously provided to them by presumably more mainstream, less radical'go along and get along' Republican politicians on the Hill. This speaks to a genuine--and legitimate--division between moderates and conservatives within the Republican Party. Better to hash it out now rather than on the eve of the midterms.

Posted by: troyriser at February 19, 2013 03:08 PM (vtiE6)

218 My brief skim of this controversy (about 10 days back) was that he was saying we can't have more Christine O'Donnells, which is something that everyone who is honest with himself -- and not just a seething ego lashing out at any possible rebuke -- has to admit would be a good thing.

----

What does that have to do with whether we should listen to Rove or not?

Posted by: SH at February 19, 2013 03:08 PM (gmeXX)

219 "Let me tell you, I see this Tea Party thing as getting to be just that."

Egad, making pronouncements about the Taxed Enough Already movement is something I would expect from Karl Rove's sort. You are so obviously dying to be an insider, it's showing.

The Republican party is starting to look like one of those beetles which have a wasp larvae eating it from the inside. A barely living husk concealing something frightening and beautiful. Maybe.

Posted by: Mike James at February 19, 2013 03:08 PM (cgDgK)

220 Why are we still talking about COD?

---

I mentioned her solely because that's the single biggest example I can think of where Rove acted completely unprofessionally.

She beat his boy Castle in the primary and, within 10 minutes, Rove had already started screaming from the rooftops about what a disaster she'd be.

She'd probably have lost anyway but him losing his shit the way he did left a lot of hard feelings about the GOP and hand-picked candidates.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 03:08 PM (e0xKF)

221 If a conservative who isn't approved by the establishment wins, the
Roves of the party pick up their bats and balls and go home, then shit
on the nominee. Some of them get in such a snit they switch parties.


Saw a "don't blame me, I voted for Lugar" sticker the other day.

Wished I still had my Buick.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (/kI1Q)

222 oh come on, ace should know better than to mention a baseball team while i'm lurking
at least let them lose their first 50 games, shouldn't take too long
Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (660FR)


Fair point, I mean the first 60 games won't take long at all to happen.


Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (VtjlW)

223 "insider perspective"

Just two little words. I love the English language.

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (11Tdq)

224 214

what should they have done, crash the debt ceiling

the stuff they were elected in response to was already passed

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (60GaT)

225 Karl Rove's big pasty head would make for a great paper mache protest tool.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (jucos)

226 >Will that single party stand for anything besides "reaching across the aisle" and collegial backslapping? My bet: probably not.<

Why not try? Why prejudge the outcome?

One would have to assume we are all after the same thing. That is the auspices of power. No "faction" in the party will get there by themselves. It will take a group effort.

We've been successful in the past because there has been a balanced approach. No doubt. that balance needs to be restored. But there is too much jockeying and not enough focus on the finish line.

We will not win until everybody in this party coordinates on strategy. Take the best, most salient ideas and repeat them. Marshall all the resources and use them for our collective goal.

Don't forget; we've beat ourselves due to poor messages, worse coordination and intra-party fighting.

I don't believe the electorate has changed that much. I believe we, as a party have grotesquely transformed and sitting around assigning blame will not restore our prominence. Quite the opposite.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (GGCsk)

227 When do we start yearning for the perfect leader on horseback? I always like that part the best.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Pirate Scum of Umbar at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (hLRSq)

228 So can she not understand it because she is black, or because womyn?

Posted by: RWC at February 19, 2013 02:51 PM (fWAjv)


Neither. Because reporter.

Awake again too soon. sigh

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 19, 2013 03:09 PM (yh0zB)

229 Is it gauche to point out that there was no bigger booster to put Sarah Palin on the ticket with McCain than Ace of Spades?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 03:10 PM (KAWvv)

230 >>about GOProud, unless the Republican Party switches its stance on
same-sex marriage (which i realize a not-insignificant amount of people
want it to,) including them makes as much sense as, i dunno, Republicans
for Infinite Keynesian Stimulus.

For one thing, the party's stance on gay marriage is not by any stretch of the imagination universal. Neither is its opposition to abortion. It may not make sense to you, but there are gay people who are fiscal conservatives, and would like to join with other conservatives to change policy.

That is, if they can do so without encountering bigotry from people who would reject people who believe precisely the same way they do, for picayune and stupid reasons.

Ace is right on this. A movement that respects itself shouldn't be "seeking purity" by driving people out. It should be growing more powerful by converting people who aren't at 100%.

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:10 PM (xp1pq)

231 We're winning Ohio!!

Posted by: Karl Rove at February 19, 2013 03:10 PM (AWmfW)

232
Reagan's Commandment should be revised to this:

Never, ever find yourself parroting the Democrats.

Rove breaks this rule a lot just to get on TV.


Posted by: soothsayer at February 19, 2013 03:10 PM (QVBzT)

233 Well, since there isn't going to be another real election in the "federal" vein anymore, then all this is just kabuki.

The Democrats have shown they approve of, encourage, and will win with voting fraud. This means we will never have another free election. Period.

Now, Rove is a piece of shit and he's a scheming little leftwing prick. So--- yeah nazi uniform suits the little shiteating lardbucket.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at February 19, 2013 03:10 PM (UzocF)

234 If Rove actually gave a shit about winning for the GOP he would have kept his fucking mouth shut. But he didn't, he had to spit on the base. I'm the fucking base, so he spit on me.

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 03:10 PM (OlN4e)

235 Incidentally, how well is the Hollowpoint/Ace/Rove NE Republican strategy working lately in the actual northeast? Scott Brown, who is on paper the ideal candidate to execute on that, lost by double digits to a possible mental incompetent who thinks she's a Native American. I'm not a purity guy, I donated to both of his campaigns, but at the same time if you claim to be so much smarter than the TP about electing people I wanna see the damn results.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (B/VB5)

236 PS the GOP isn't fucked because of the tea party--it is fucked because of its own miserable failure to perform.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (KAWvv)

237 I miss the PS4 thread.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (piMMO)

238 Sometimes I think the "tea party" is not our friend. . but then I always thought they were disgruntled democrats from the beginning.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (Mix/J)

239 The Tea Party lost me when they allowed the SoCons in. But losing me wasn't the important part. The Tea Party also lost all the disaffected Dems and all the Indies when they let the SoCons start taking over. And at that point, all momentum was lost.

TEA was supposed to stand for Taxed Enough All Ready. I'm against abortion and teh ghey agenda and all that too, but those issues drive away Indies in DROVES. The SoCons can never seem to learn that not everything is about them and their agenda.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (7ObY1)

240 People don't want to hear they were wrong; they want to hear they were
RIGHT, but they were cheated out of victory by a group of plotting
malefactors who just want the worst for everyone.


We would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for that damned tea party!

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (/kI1Q)

241
227 When do we start yearning for the perfect leader on horseback?

she'll be riding a polar bear
yeah, I went there

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (660FR)

242 Again, we are being played, and all of you are falling into it.

So now we will have a nine-days wonder about this stupid picture.

1. WHO IS THE VENDOR?
2. What other clients do they have?
3. Is anyone on the vendor's staff also active in OFA?
4. Has the Tea Party filed a lawsuit ?

I fail to see how what is either a provable act of sabotage OR a lie by Tea Party people caught acting like asses reason for everyone to immediately choose sides and start firing.

Come on! Are we smart people or not? If not, I am going to get back to planning my garden and ignore the lot of you.

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (GoIUi)

243 >>>>Hope and prayer is not a strategy.

Well Hope and "Change" worked for me.

Posted by: Barry O at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (ppNDn)

244 Zeb Colter's State of the Union speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqn6MCAxq1c

Zeb Colter. A True Patriot for a True America.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (ZPrif)

245 >Will that single party stand for anything besides "reaching across
the aisle" and collegial backslapping? My bet: probably not.<

Why not try? Why prejudge the outcome?


Um, we've seen the outcome. For decades. It isn't pretty.

What's that silly saying about trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

Posted by: Cicero, Semiautomatic Assault Commenter at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (8ZskC)

246 >>>>>>Yankees vs Mets?

That should read Cubs vs the World

Posted by: Cubs fan at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (0PiQ4)

247 That is, if they can do so without encountering bigotry from people who would reject people who believe precisely the same way they do, for picayune and stupid reasons.

Ace is right on this. A movement that respects itself shouldn't be "seeking purity" by driving people out. It should be growing more powerful by converting people who aren't at 100%.

****

GOProud's actions are what got it banned. Not the fact that they are gay.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (piMMO)

248 And speaking of - ONLY THE CUBS CAN WIN THE 2013 WORLD SERIES
Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (660FR)


Utterly, utterly obligatory -

http://youtu.be/JVGAfA15U1I

I'll admit it, this makes me sniffle every time.

Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (VtjlW)

249 I'm not a purity guy, I donated to both of his campaigns, but at the same time if you claim to be so much smarter than the TP about electing people I wanna see the damn results.

---

Which brings me to another candidate which leaves me with hard feelings toward the RNSC and Rove... Sen. Lincoln Chafee.

They poured a ton of resources into keeping that little cocksucker afloat in 2004 despite him regularly giving the finger to the party and he announced after his loss that he'd have flipped parties if he'd won.

The money they poured into his candidacy could have put a much better candidate over the top somewhere else.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 03:13 PM (e0xKF)

250
235
Incidentally, how well is the Hollowpoint/Ace/Rove NE Republican
strategy working lately in the actual northeast? Scott Brown, who is on
paper the ideal candidate to execute on that, lost by double digits to a
possible mental incompetent who thinks she's a Native American. I'm
not a purity guy, I donated to both of his campaigns, but at the same
time if you claim to be so much smarter than the TP about electing
people I wanna see the damn results.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (B/VB5)

Funny thing is that what you said there is exactly the premise of their argument: "We demand results, not just purity."

It is nothing but projection on their part, completely transparent for anyone to see who has their eyes open. I'm not sure whether it is funny or infuriating. I'll settle for laughing with a scowl on my face, I guess. =/

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 19, 2013 03:13 PM (his4q)

251 I mentioned her solely because that's the single biggest example I can think of where Rove acted completely unprofessionally. She beat his boy Castle in the primary and, within 10 minutes, Rove had already started screaming from the rooftops about what a disaster she'd be.

----
Frankly, both sides (again using the term sides loosely) were somewhat at fault. COD was a terrible candidate, but so was Mike Castle. And maybe he would have and could have won, but the tea party was strong in 2010 and after years of being ignored, they rose up. Mistakes were made, but there were a lot of hits too. After the primary, Rove should have just kept his mouth shut.

My point is that I don't think in today's environment COD would make it through, partly because we have her experience to learn from. Using COD as a way to describe the current state of affairs seems unnecessary.

Posted by: SH at February 19, 2013 03:13 PM (gmeXX)

252 Ahem, I've got a solution.

Crossbows for GOP establishment, longbows for Tea Partiers, and fully automatic assault weapons with nuclear grenade launcher mounts for conservative bloggers.

Now turn this circular firing squad around and start fucking shooting, cause Daddy wants to build a pipeline.

Posted by: Stephen Harper at February 19, 2013 03:14 PM (BrQrN)

253
EXPLODE AND MAKE UP

http://tinyurl.com/b6zmtfm

Posted by: SUGAR at February 19, 2013 03:14 PM (6rcGo)

254
248 I so should not check this link out....
but I am

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (660FR)

255 239-Satire? Lunacy? Concerned?


Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (11Tdq)

256 After the primary, Rove should have just kept his mouth shut.

---

And that's the main point I'm harping on.

Rove's boy lost, so he shit all over her on Fox that night instead of shutting his fucking mouth. That's been a habit with him and the RNSC leadership when their hand-picked candidates underperform.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (e0xKF)

257 Well, considering Rove is the only campaign manager to win a presidential election for the Repubs in the last 20 years -- I tend to think he might have some insight and probably isn't an evil dirtbag.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (ZPrif)

258 >>If Rove actually gave a shit about winning for the GOP he would have
kept his fucking mouth shut. But he didn't, he had to spit on the base.
I'm the fucking base, so he spit on me.

And the butthurt children can't take criticism, then? Even if it's done out of the intention of defeating Democrats?

How do you imbeciles square these two contradictory points?

1) Karl Rove is so powerful that he can make candidates lose by telling the truth about their non-electability on Fox News.

2) Karl Rove is so powerless he caused (actually, directly caused) a bunch of candidates to lose in '12 and thought he could change the results in Ohio by yelling at the producers at Fox.

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (xp1pq)

259 Just look at the people in the opposition that we are losing to. We can't beat Obama with all that we know about him and there are numerous districts across the country who have functioning retards represent them. The Republic is done for. Kaput. Finished. Let it burn. Karl Rove is just a sideshow and irrelevant.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (jucos)

260 Rove stuck his dick into a hornet's nest and then whined to his buddies in the establishment wing of Fox News.

Blames the Tea Party for Akin, when the TP candidate LOST to Akin due to McCaskill shenanigans

If Rove and his genius Crossroads had been keeping tabs on things instead of getting his knob shined by HANNITY! , maybe he would have been able to prevent that

I don't quite remember seeing the Dems accepting and forgiving any of theirs who deviate from the party line. Bob Casey Sr was barred from speaking at the 1992 DNC convention because he didn't "see the light" on the abortion issue

Yeh, the Tea Partiers have to learn if they want to put their people in charge, they have to learn how to use MSM friends and PR tricks to eliminate their enemies with a reasoned smiling set of talking points

Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (mCvL4)

261 It reminds me of the 2012 problem with the Obama Campaign Ads showing up on conservative websites. The site owner sez " Gee, I'm sorry, but I have no control over the ads displayed on my web site." Viewers shrugged and kept on reading and commenting.

And that's how it should be. It costs money to run a website, and the site owner needs compensation for time and effort. Tea Party Patriots have eggs on their faces because of an apparent screwup by a vendor. Big deal.

As for the Rah Rah Team remark, it's not like GOP = conservatives anymore, right?

Posted by: mrp at February 19, 2013 03:16 PM (HjPtV)

262 GOProud's actions are what got it banned. Not the fact that they are gay.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (piMMO)


Exactly; Tammy Bruce and Breitbart want nothing to do with them because of their actions.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 19, 2013 03:17 PM (klH5X)

263
And the butthurt children can't take criticism, then? Even if it's done out of the intention of defeating Democrats? Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (xp1pq)



Defeating Democrats is not relevant if the people you replace them with are not going to substantially deviate from Democrat policy.


Why is this difficult to grasp??

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 19, 2013 03:17 PM (his4q)

264 248
And speaking of - ONLY THE CUBS CAN WIN THE 2013 WORLD SERIES

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 02:39 PM (660FR)



--------------------

Utterly, utterly obligatory -



http://youtu.be/JVGAfA15U1I



I'll admit it, this makes me sniffle every time.

Posted by: alexthechick - Chaotic Evil Hobbit. at February 19, 2013 03:12 PM (VtjlW)



How bad are the Cubs?



This bad.



http://youtu.be/Heoa-AI42bA

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 19, 2013 03:17 PM (da5Wo)

265 How do you imbeciles square these two contradictory points?

Lou is delusional.

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 03:17 PM (11Tdq)

266 If Rove and Cornyn had their way, we wouldn't have Rand Paul, Pat Toomey, Marco Rubio, or Ted Cruz in office.

So you're saying that American Crossroads spent money to elect Rubio, Paul and Cruz because Rove wanted them to lose?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 03:17 PM (SY2Kh)

267
1. WHO IS THE VENDOR?
2. What other clients do they have?
3. Is anyone on the vendor's staff also active in OFA?
4. Has the Tea Party filed a lawsuit ?

I fail to see how what is either a provable act of sabotage OR a lie by Tea Party people caught acting like asses reason for everyone to immediately choose sides and start firing.

Posted by: Miss Marple


Didn't click through to the Politico article, didja?


J.D. Norman, a partner at Active Engagement, said his company took full responsibility for including the image.

It was a mistake that we made. It was not a mistake that went through Tea Party Patriots,” he told POLITICO. His firm handles “tens of millions of emails over the course of a month or so for each independent client,” he said. “We’re trying to look into how it happened to prevent it in the future.”


It's not a lie and the assumption that it was is baseless. For you, Ace, and Jeff B. to assume it was makes you guys look like fucking Democrats spitting on the conservative grassroot orgs.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:17 PM (Ipj15)

268 >Um, we've seen the outcome. For decades. It isn't pretty.<

You mean like the coalitions that got Reagan and Bush (I and II) elected?

Those (coalitions) seemed to be pretty successful but fell apart once power was gained. I would argue (with you I believe) that was due to a lack of balance and poor execution by some of those presidents (especially the Bush years). I would add to the blame our own party "leaders" talking past each other and factions fighting for their slice of the pie.

In that regard we've become factional and not, as it should be, principled.

So what's the alternative? Should we just keep fighting and jockeying?

That's sounds like a recipe for continued failure.

We need to harness the power of out collective ideas and agree on an ordered priority. That has always been our strength.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 03:18 PM (GGCsk)

269 254 if I had a playstation I would break it

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:18 PM (660FR)

270
Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:15 PM (xp1pq)




And you have a pipeline into Rove's intentions? I don't recall Roosevelt calling the Russians dirt bags publicly during the war. And in fact fired Patton for it. Bullshit.

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 03:18 PM (OlN4e)

271 230

the group's identity is naturally tied up in their opposition to Republican policy on this issue, regardless of intent. i wasn't commenting on how conservative/unconservative they are.

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:18 PM (60GaT)

272 >>>OProud's actions are what got it banned. Not the fact that they are gay.

right. And I'm not anti-semitic, I just hate Israel's actions, so no Jews allowed.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:18 PM (LCRYB)

273 My life fades. The vision dims. All that remains are memories. I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Rove Warrior. The man we called a 'fat tub of vipers'.

Posted by: The Feral kid at February 19, 2013 03:19 PM (A2iqW)

274 >>>For you, Ace, and Jeff B. to assume it was makes you guys look like fucking Democrats spitting on the conservative grassroot orgs.

ugh, spare me the wrath of the nerd-rage fanboyz

this is what really puts me off -- the fanboyism.

just like Xbox vs. ps3. Childish.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:20 PM (LCRYB)

275 ugh, spare me the wrath of the nerd-rage fanboyz



Posted by: ace


You didn't read the article, did you?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:20 PM (Ipj15)

276 right. And I'm not anti-semitic, I just hate Israel's actions, so no Jews allowed.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:18 PM (LCRYB)


And here I thought only dems ignored facts and reality to that extent. Guess I learn something new every day.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 19, 2013 03:21 PM (da5Wo)

277 yes I did. I also read your excepts.

Did you read my post? Did you read my three answers to you?

fuckin' fanboyz

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:21 PM (LCRYB)

278 >>Lou is delusional.

Then answer my damned question.

People like you blame Karl Rove for single-handedly causing Christine O'Donnell to lose in Delaware (which is total garbage, but whatever), and also say that he was so ineffective that the candidates he supported for Senate lost in 2012 (I've heard some idiots say that they lost BECAUSE he supported them).

That's a contradiction. Solve it, or admit your attacks on Rove are driven by nothing more than irrational butthurt.

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:21 PM (xp1pq)

279 Anybody got a link for the TEA Party "letting the SoCons in"?


Is the problem here that the GOP isn't inclusive enough, or that the TEA Party isn't inclusive enough? Because it's getting real confusing.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 03:21 PM (yCvxi)

280 >>>Yeah, Ace, that's exactly what the tea party is all about. Loyalty oaths.

I'm sitting here almost boggled at the complete lack of self-awareness in this post. Because...you do realize that taken as a generalized concept, the "Tea Party" types are ABSOLUTELY about loyalty oaths, right? Deviate from ANY of their Sacred Planks of True Conservatism, and you're officially dead to these people, worthy of nothing but hatred and scorn. Hell, it's getting hard to keep up with some of the shit that'll get you read out of the movement these days.

That is EXACTLY the same thing, in operation, as forcing "loyalty oaths," which is Ace's point: any deviation, any suggestion of deviation, strategic compromise, understanding that the world is changing and we need to craft a new position to respond to that reality...it's all "selling out" and being a pussy and being "Establishment."

The worst thing about that sort of social-group fascism is that it destroys what is actually a good critique: that Establishment types ARE too cautious, that they DO get co-opted by Washington and special interests, that they ARE capable of venality and corruption. But you have to be intellectually supple enough to realize that two things can be true simultaneously: 1.) GOP establishment types are in need of a real check on their worst, most pandering and/or accomodationist instincts; 2.) a mob of (being brutally honest) extremely politically ignorant people who are operating more on rage and disgust and loathing than on rational calculation is a deeply shitty organ for political decisionmaking.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:21 PM (bcLhD)

281 266 If Rove and Cornyn had their way, we wouldn't have Rand Paul, Pat Toomey, Marco Rubio, or Ted Cruz in office.

So you're saying that American Crossroads spent money to elect Rubio, Paul and Cruz because Rove wanted them to lose?

---

I'm saying that they tried to force them out of the race in favor of hand-picked candidates in Charlie Crist, Trey Grayson, and David Dewhurst, with Rubio specifically being leaned on hard to get out of the race because Cornyn et all had heavily courted Crist to run for that seat.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 19, 2013 03:21 PM (e0xKF)

282 #267 Thanks, and no, I didn't click through (she shamefully admitted). And I DID give an either/or.

SO now the fact remains that we do not know WHO made the mistake within the company, and if it was deliberate sabotage or simply an error. Could be someone like that woman working for McKinnon's agency back in 2000 who stole the Bush debate prep book.

This is a stupid thread because it is driving a wedge between factions rather than attempting to unify people.

And so, I am off to look at seed catalogs.

Posted by: Miss Marple at February 19, 2013 03:22 PM (GoIUi)

283 Alright so now Ace is just trolling his own posters. Yanno what, fine. o.O Enjoy that. Tell yourself that the psychotics over at Generic Tea Party Organization Du Jour are extremists, sociopaths, ideological purists who are getting in the way of the vaunted moderates' saving of the United States of FUBAR.


At least you'll have held the line on holding the line. >_> Whatever.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 19, 2013 03:22 PM (his4q)

284 You look like an ass here Ace, move on to another topic.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at February 19, 2013 03:22 PM (da5Wo)

285
274 the fanboyism. just like Xbox vs. ps3. Childish.

****looks down at my Iphone5 and Alienware laptop****
sniff sniff

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:22 PM (660FR)

286 The SoCons can never seem to learn that not everything is about them and their agenda.
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (7ObY1)

Change the party platform to drive them out. Let us know how that works for you.

Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 03:22 PM (OQpzc)

287 personally i admired Ms. O'Donnell's anti-onanist stance that's all i'll say

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:23 PM (60GaT)

288 >>>Hope and prayer is not a strategy.

The Rove strategy left us with a brand so damaged that hope and prayer is almost all we have left. The Tea Party rose because Rove and his ilk were dooming us. That being said, the Hitler thing is beyond the line. THAT being said, there is more than a casual similarity between the Rovian compassionate conservatism and fascism.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 19, 2013 03:23 PM (0q2P7)

289
Can't we all just get along?

Actually, no. We can't.

You can try to save the R party, and it might work, but getting all huffy about the fact that there are real, substantial differences between large swaths of what USED to be the Republican coalition is just silly.

Rove wants the Tea Party defeated. He does! You can look it up. The Tea Party doesn't like Rove and the (mythical) Republican Establishment. Again, look it up.

But go ahead and get upset about the fighting, Ace, and pretend you're not rooting for one side...

Posted by: BurtTC at February 19, 2013 03:23 PM (TOk1P)

290 I don't agree with GOPProud's values. But I believe they mostly share the same views on government.

The idea of a political party is to coalesce around a set of governmental principles. So provided we share the same views on those principles why would I care if they are gay?

I work with people who are gay. They are extraordinarily good at what they do. Why would I care otherwise in a work environment?

Same thing for politics.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (GGCsk)

291 It may not make sense to you, but there are gay people who are fiscal conservatives, and would like to join with other conservatives to change policy.

And GOProud is not those people. It's an organization whose leadership's priority is purging the Party of conservative "faggots" who are willing to work for "anti-gay homophobes" like Rick Perry.

Those quotes are quotes. Remember? Events? That occurred?

They may not make sense to you.

Posted by: oblig. at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (cePv8)

292 "THAT being said, there is more than a casual similarity between the Rovian compassionate conservatism and fascism."

come on

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (60GaT)

293 I am intrigued by Ace's love of the term "fanboyz". He used it to describe us Gundickstrokers a few months ago.

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (OlN4e)

294 >>>The Tea Party rose because Rove and his ilk were dooming us.

when the tea party can confess a few lapses in judgment instead of playing OMG UR SUCH A RINO card to forestall any such examination, I'll get back on board.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (LCRYB)

295 Anybody else notice if you click through and read the article that they claim the nazi uniform pic was a mistake -- and that is was supposed to be one of Rove thumbing his nose????? If this is true, Ace is over-reacting.

Posted by: Joe Salivatzar at February 19, 2013 03:25 PM (hHgxI)

296 >>> right. And I'm not anti-semitic, I just hate Israel's actions, so no Jews allowed.

I like the cut of your jib.

Posted by: Chuck Hagel at February 19, 2013 03:25 PM (4KOF2)

297 Vitriolic, tendentious horseshit.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 19, 2013 03:25 PM (e/OuK)

298 >>> He used it to describe us Gundickstrokers a few months ago.

that was like a year ago, or more.

but yeah, that was a bit fanboyish.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:26 PM (LCRYB)

299 Hitler's first act was Deutschcare Part D (but only for Aryans)

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:26 PM (60GaT)

300 The Republicans who can win elections did win them. Then they go to DC and fold like cheap lawn furniture.

Don't bitch about Boehner, McConnell, McCain, Graham et al because they know how to "win" until they actually get to the business of legislating

We had majorities from 2002 to 2006 and the WH, and they caved to Nanny Botox and Dingy Harry every time the MSM called them a bunch of meanies.

Politicians who know how to win are those who know how to change their views with every poll. They win because they're doing it for themselves, not you the sucker voter

We talk here every day about the need to reform spending, but it's useless chatter to expect the politicians to make hard choices that might endanger their re-elections

Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:26 PM (mCvL4)

301 If you are asking us to take sides I will take the Tea Party over Rove all day long and twice on Sunday.

I also think it is counterproductive and useless for an opinion leading blog like this one to give any air to this sort of stuff. We could have all lived without knowing some group somewhere used a bit of inflammatory rhetoric to respond to Rove's threats against them. That ember would have burned out... but here we are blowing air on it like our lives depend on it catching flame.

Not smart... not smart at all.

Posted by: Voluble at February 19, 2013 03:26 PM (qYvEa)

302 Isn't the Tea Party Patriots group an outfit largely designed to get their political consultants handsome fees?

Posted by: Serious Cat at February 19, 2013 03:26 PM (UypUQ)

303
back to work for me kids, but in parting.....
since its obvious rove and the TP are idiots, come this next election cycle I know the perfect candidate to send all your campaign cash to...

ME!!!
i'll have my site set up by the end of May so get that green folding stuff with dead presidents ready

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 19, 2013 03:27 PM (660FR)

304 Because...you do realize that taken as a generalized concept, the "Tea Party" types are ABSOLUTELY about loyalty oaths, right?
Posted by: Jeff B.


Jeff B. bringin' the wisdom as only he knows how.

Ace, You may want to reconsider solely on account that Jeff B. agrees VOCIFEROUSLY with you.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:27 PM (Ipj15)

305 279 Anybody got a link for the TEA Party "letting the SoCons in"?
Yeah, that Tea Party guy who came by and said we all have to vote exactly how they say had that link.

These Tea Party people are sneaky bastards. Always making sweeping proclaimations and then hiding the evidence.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 03:27 PM (ZDsRL)

306 >>Those quotes are quotes. Remember? Events? That occurred?
They may not make sense to you.

That was inside baseball bullcrap among the consultant class of the GOP and you know it. Oh, but I guess since Perry was involved and Perry is sacrosanct, Team "I'm with Perry!" bylaws dictate that GOProud doesn't belong in the party.

You're certainly welcome to have that opinion. And I'm certainly welcome to call you a petty cherry-picker looking for an excuse and not a reason.

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:27 PM (xp1pq)

307 It isn't just rah-rah for a team, it is rah-rah for a faction within a team. There is that United We Stand - Divided We Fall thing out there. Sure, an R after the name doesn't guarantee quality, but a D after the naem is a guarantee of a different kind.

Yes, this politics, factions in a party scrambling for power within the party. Now, here is the question - is that so offensive to you that you would rather have no power in teh greater political arena, or can you stand that and accept having some power in the greater political arena?

Winning may not be everything but losing isn't anything said Charlie Brown.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Pirate Scum of Umbar at February 19, 2013 03:28 PM (hLRSq)

308 How come there are no Democrats who vote like Republicans?

Posted by: Jean at February 19, 2013 03:28 PM (qjFNd)

309
290 -

Actually no, they probably don't. The organization was and is actively trying to change the R party into one that more closely resembles the D party of about 30 years ago.

They actively try to sabotage conservatives. They claim to be party loyalists though. They're not.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 19, 2013 03:28 PM (TOk1P)

310 J.D. Norman, a partner at Active Engagement, said his company took full responsibility for including the image.

“It was a mistake that we made. It was not a mistake that went through Tea Party Patriots,” he told POLITICO. His firm handles “tens of millions of emails over the course of a month or so for each independent client,” he said. “We’re trying to look into how it happened to prevent it in the future.”

It's not a lie and the assumption that it was is baseless. For you, Ace, and Jeff B. to assume it was makes you guys look like fucking Democrats spitting on the conservative grassroot orgs.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:17 PM (Ipj15)

_____________

Well if you are Tea Party aren't you at the very least a fiscal Conservative?

If you donated money to them, and they spent it like this--without reviewing the product--you should be upset, no?

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:28 PM (r2PLg)

311 "when the tea party can confess a few lapses in judgment instead of playing OMG UR SUCH A RINO card to forestall any such examination, I'll get back on board.


Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (LCRYB)"



When ace starts flinging straw all over the place, you know it's time to take a break from the HQ

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 03:28 PM (yCvxi)

312 Stupid party can't help itself.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 19, 2013 03:28 PM (e/OuK)

313 But this is true: Fanboyz drive out less-interested-but-potentially-interested would-be adopters of a project.

You don't have to take my opinion on this subject, but please do accept me as one single data point to add to your spreadsheet: I'm on my last nerve.

So while an anecdote is not data, if there are similar data points lurking around, you might want to check.

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:29 PM (LCRYB)

314 >If you are asking us to take sides I will take the Tea Party over Rove all day long and twice on Sunday. <

Which is exactly the attitude that dooms us.

It's not about taking sides. It's about collectively working together on a strategy.

What is the Tea Party Strategy anyway? Is there some proposal they've put out we can all coalesce around? Something to discuss?

How about the Tea Party, Rove and everyone else work collectively?

We talk about a "Third Party"? I think we are already there. Maybe even a Fourth or Fifth.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 03:29 PM (GGCsk)

315 >>>come on

OK. Everyone assumes that when the word fascism comes out it means HITLER HITLER HITLER. The idea of fascism is broader than Hitlers version of it. It basically involves a nationalistic, authoritarian government, with a quasi free market system. It need not be a dictatorship. It simply needs to disregard personal freedom and autonomy with an oppressive state while rejecting the common ownership principals of socialism. E.g. Bush/Rove were not Hitler, but the Patriot Act was not America.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 19, 2013 03:30 PM (0q2P7)

316 Arlen Specter , you're welcome!

Posted by: Karl Rove at February 19, 2013 03:30 PM (AWmfW)

317
I just read Hannity's interview of Rove. After reading the interview, I think all of Rove's points are just plain common sense. Is there some back story I am missing?
http://tinyurl.com/be6e7sb

Posted by: nc at February 19, 2013 03:30 PM (YvFZ3)

318 Old CW: Conservatives win elections because WE look for CONVERTS while the liberals look for HERETICS

this is now 100% the reverse.

We are purging heretics in a party that can barely manage 48% in a national election.



Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:30 PM (LCRYB)

319 >>>Ace, You may want to reconsider solely on account that Jeff B. agrees VOCIFEROUSLY with you.

Fine, we get it: I'm an asshole. I own it, I'm okay with it, I'm a much nicer human being in real life I swear, whatever.

But what's incorrect about what I wrote in the post you only partially quoted?

Furthermore, don't you think it's an intellectually illegitimate rhetorical tactic to say "oh man, this guy who I've designated as a RINO Hate Object agrees with you...doesn't that make you feel icky?" It's a cowardly line of argument that consciously seeks to avoid engaging in the actual matter and instead seeks to win through social pressure.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:30 PM (bcLhD)

320 when the tea party can confess a few lapses in judgment instead of playing OMG UR SUCH A RINO card to forestall any such examination, I'll get back on board.
Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (LCRYB)

Thanks to the Tea Party, there is now a group of people in Delaware who are conservatives. Right now, the group is too small to win elections, but they know who each other are and they can grow.

Before COD, Mike Castle was what passed for a conservative.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (ZDsRL)

321 315 we have a different view of what amounts to an "oppressive state," especially given the nature of those who operate against us

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (60GaT)

322 I hate to point this out, yet again, but it is never going to be easier than it is right now to win as an anti-abortion/anti-gay marriage party. It's only going to get uglier for us. Not the least of the reasons is that younger people with brains and money generally don't favor those positions, and we need a shitload more of such people.

It doesn't taint our brand in Nofuckingwheretucky, but it's the principal reason why we get our clocks cleaned in the suburbs of large cities where we used to rule the roost. The perspective on these characterizations in solidly Republican locales would be different, obviously, but when your brand is perceived as homophobic, anti woman and racist in such areas, voting Republican is kind of a source of embarrassment when the media plays it up 24/7 and you have a dishonest fool like Obama continually throwing out phony rhetorical fig leaves about fiscal responsibility and whatnot.

Posted by: Zippity Doo Dah at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (E55AK)

323 Yes, ace, yes you are.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (e/OuK)

324 >But this is true: Fanboyz drive out less-interested-but-potentially-interested would-be adopters of a project.
<

They are also generally not fact based, appeal to emotion, undisciplined in approach, undiplomatic and ignore inconvenient truths.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (GGCsk)

325 So the TPP are lying in saying they didn't do it and the vendor is lying in saying that he did do it? Otherwise the whole thesis of this post was moot before it was posted.

Posted by: lincolntf at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (ZshNr)

326 right. And I'm not anti-semitic, I just hate Israel's actions, so no Jews allowed.

****

I'm surprised Ace.

You've become s invested in your ideas that NO OTHER THOUGHT is to be entertained.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 03:32 PM (piMMO)

327 WTF do you expect, Ace? The republican party has clearly abandoned all pretense of being the opposition party. Sure, the 'grassroots' stuff can be pretty wacky, but where else do people who actually give a damn have to turn?

Posted by: Tim at February 19, 2013 03:32 PM (BuYeH)

328 >>>If you are asking us to take sides I will take the Tea Party over Rove all day long and twice on Sunday. <

Which is exactly the attitude that dooms us.

exactly, I'm not talking about taking sides; I'm talking about the OPPOSITE of taking sides: That is, taking each idea on a case by case basis and evaluating the idea, no matter which team it came from.

But "sides" is easier. This is what I'm talking about. Human beings, if they do not take pains to resist it, will easily fall into their primate-derived comfort zone of "just taking a side' and subcontracting all other thinking to that "side."

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:32 PM (LCRYB)

329 Healthy competition is a good thing. If we are the independent thinkers we claim we are, then the most conservative electable candidate will win regardless of who tells us how to vote and why.

Posted by: 80sBaby at February 19, 2013 03:32 PM (YjDyJ)

330 318 Old CW: Conservatives win elections because WE look for CONVERTS while the liberals look for HERETICS

this is now 100% the reverse.

We are purging heretics in a party that can barely manage 48% in a national election.



Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:30 PM (LCRYB)

_______________

Yep--we have people going around telling people--

you aren't a Conservative!

Conservative is going to become the old negative word in America that Liberal use to be.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:32 PM (r2PLg)

331 Look, let's face it, the old coalition is dead, dinosaur dead, deader than Elvis dead, truly most sincerely dead.

It is dead not because SoCons got uppity. It's not dead because the Tea Party went all amateur hour. It's dead because the 'professional' wing that kept it all together decided they had more common cause with the other team than they did with the factions they were balancing off against each other, and now the twenty grades of Hell that had been kept under wraps are breaking loose with a vengeance.

Until a new 'professional' wing arises to replace the old wing and start building a new coalition, this is how it's going to be on the political front, which if you're still regarding that as the primary action front to fight on, you aren't paying attention. It's going to be up to the various groups to establish their own 'facts on the ground' in the cultural arena before a new center can be forged for conservatism (whatever that is anymore).

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Keeper of Ampersands and Breitbart Login Spaces at February 19, 2013 03:33 PM (GBXon)

332 329
Healthy competition is a good thing. If we are the independent thinkers
we claim we are, then the most conservative electable candidate will win
regardless of who tells us how to vote and why.


Posted by: 80sBaby at February 19, 2013 03:32 PM (YjDyJ

This^^^^

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 19, 2013 03:33 PM (UOM48)

333 The official meme decided by our pundit betters is that if you think cpac has the right to exclude goproud based on their bad behavior from their annual meeting, you must hate gays and are a bigot.

Posted by: I chase him - I bite him at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (6J6x7)

334 Healthy competition is a good thing. If we are the independent thinkers
we claim we are, then the most conservative electable candidate will win
regardless of who tells us how to vote and why.


***


Ahem, Rand.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (piMMO)

335 "He started it."

Should be preceded by "Yea but," and followed after a pause with "Aww Mom".

Posted by: DaveA (with 2 brothers and 2 sisters) at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (6YLIm)

336
But what's incorrect about what I wrote in the post you only partially quoted?
Posted by: Jeff B.


Can you demonstrate in any fashion, with evidence, that the TEA party members "are ABSOLUTELY about loyalty oaths"?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (Ipj15)

337 "But what's incorrect about what I wrote in the post you only partially quoted?"


It's not incorrect, the whole first paragraph of what you posted simply contains no verifiable point of fact. You, like ace, tend to latch on tight to the worst arguments of those with whom you disagree and then ride them into the ground.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (yCvxi)

338 Before COD, Mike Castle was what passed for a conservative.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (ZDsRL)

____________

In--New Jersey.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (r2PLg)

339 The Tea Party does go over the top more than enough, but then again they don't have the money and connections that Rove has to make sure that only his kind of folk get into Washington. You know Rove's kind - they're the ones who managed to blow a big lead in the mid 2000's

Maybe if the Tea Party had Rove's PR and consulting machine, they could lie convincingly on TV and then elect candidates who'll do whatever Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid tell them to do

Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (mCvL4)

340 322 there's truth there, sure, but people are downplaying the unpopularity of Republican economic policy, something they generally haven't been advantaged on even when winning nationally

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:34 PM (60GaT)

341 293
I am intrigued by Ace's love of the term "fanboyz". He used it to describe us Gundickstrokers a few months ago.

Posted by: maddogg at February 19, 2013 03:24 PM (OlN4e)

That's the word I told him to use.

Posted by: Karl Rove at February 19, 2013 03:35 PM (AWmfW)

342 ITS OFFICIAL!

WE GOT STUPID ON THE LEFT!

WE GOT STUPID ON THE RIGHT!

WE GOT STUPID EVERYWHERE!

SHOCKING BUT TRUE!


zzzzzz

as many times as we have been called racist, i could give a flying fuck if someone tea party group wants to stick Carl Rover in a german outfit and give him a hitler mustache...everyone knows Hitler wasnt that fat.

Hell the leftists have been sticking hitler mustaches on people left and right they dont agree with...or did you all miss the very popular and often displayed at every liberal gathering in the cheesefuckhead state that looked like this:

http://tinyurl.com/a8fx85d

If we are going to get our metrosexual mom jean panties in a wet knot everytime someone goes a bit off the deep end with their visual imagery, and run to the microphone and complain to beat the left wing press to the job, well fuck it girls, stop bitching and put those ankles behind your ears lean back relax and enjoy the mother fucking fucking that will continue from the left.

Learn to play their mother fucking game their mother fucking way.

But what every, keep worrying about how appropriate every little fucking thing someone right of center does anywhere while everyone on the left gets away with bloddy mother fucking murder every mother fucking day.

Bunch of panty waisted enablers...thats what we have turned into.

Fucking ball-less mother fuckers too scared of our own shadows to do jack shit in case we offend someone...FUCK THEM!

OFFEND AWAY!

on top of that Karl Rover is an asshole anyway who gives a shit what outfit you stick is fat bald sweaty under the double chin ass in.

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka wright's Sock Puppet at February 19, 2013 03:35 PM (+OTLF)

343 That No Tax Hike Pledge of Grover Nordquist?

Total Nazi loyalty oath type of shit

Posted by: Karl Rove at February 19, 2013 03:36 PM (mCvL4)

344 325 So the TPP are lying in saying they didn't do it and the vendor is lying in saying that he did do it? Otherwise the whole thesis of this post was moot before it was posted.
Posted by: lincolntf at February 19, 2013 03:31 PM (ZshNr)

______________

The Tea Party at the very least is about being fiscally Conservative and fiscally responsible.

If you donated money to them--and they spend your money on this without reviewing it--you should be mad, right?

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:36 PM (r2PLg)

345 >>>If you donated money to them, and they spent it like this--without reviewing the product--you should be upset, no?

That's a good point. But also: does anyone seriously believe that the TPP didn't even LOOK at its fundraising e-mail before sending it out?

Really? Not one set of eyes on an important document designed to secure money for the organization? Really now?

Of course they did. They're lying...or rather, they're lying by omission: note that (from what I see so far) the TPP has pointedly failed to say that they "never saw it before it went out." Because obviously they would have had a look at their fundraising plea before okaying it. What probably happened, assuming this vendor isn't just falling on their sword, is that someone down the chain selected that Rove photo, but the TPP guys looked at it and thought "hey, no problem here!" And only later realized they'd really crossed a line.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:37 PM (bcLhD)

346 What is the Tea Party Strategy anyway? Is there some proposal they've put out we can all coalesce around? Something to discuss?

1) BALANCE the stupid budget
2) PAY OFF the stupid debt
3) CUT the taxes and regulation
4) ????
5) PROFIT!!1!


Posted by: Just an idea I had at February 19, 2013 03:37 PM (YTGKQ)

347 Rove is sometimes wrong, but the idea of supporting the most conservative candidate who can win- how is that not a no-brainer?

To disagree is to suggest (as many of the more delusional of the TP set regularly do) you're in favor of candidates who will lose... because True Conservative.

It's insane. Now you're pissed off because of what you think Rove (and his boatloads of donor money) might do in the primaries?

Seriously- some of you need to invent a new boogeyman.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 03:37 PM (SY2Kh)

348 The Tea Party doesn't like Rove and the (mythical) Republican Establishment. Again, look it up.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 19, 2013 03:23 PM (TOk1P)

The GOP Establishment isn't mythical. It's composed of very real and very powerful men and women who command hundreds of millions of dollars and the commensurate political influence that goes with that mountain of moolah. Besides, how else would you explain continued talk of a Jeb Bush presidential candidacy?

Posted by: troyriser at February 19, 2013 03:37 PM (vtiE6)

349 I had in fact completely forgotten about goproud's outing of a "faggot"

http://www.redstate.com/snarkandboobs/2011/12

/09/goprouds-outing-of-rick-perry-pollster-

tony-fabrizio-backfires-outs-them-instead/

Posted by: ace at February 19, 2013 03:38 PM (LCRYB)

350 >>Before COD, Mike Castle was what passed for a conservative.

Before COD, Delaware had not sealed its fate as a one-party Democratic state for the foreseeable future. Republicans could still win elections of consequence there. So, yay her, I guess.

By the way, it seems the great conservative revival in Delaware is paying off massive dividends already. Why, just last November there was a Senate election in the state, in which the massive Delaware conservative juggernaut managed a shade over a quarter of the vote.

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:38 PM (xp1pq)

351 A pre-'Godwin'-ned thread.

Posted by: Regular Moron at February 19, 2013 03:38 PM (feFL6)

352 347 he's summoning the ghost of Nelson Rockefeller

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:39 PM (60GaT)

353 It seems to me that for all Ace's talk the other day of his distaste for "point-scoring" and other unproductive bickering, he sure seems to be wallowing in it over this topic...as he has in past with the Tea Party.

Dude, if you think the Tea Party is too far-right or too unreasonable and that the Establishment GOP is the way to go, then say so. There's nothing wrong with that, Sure, you'll piss off some people here, but you clearly have no problem with that anyway. Stop pulling the "I'm with you guys but YOU'RE SO UNREASONABLE" garbage and just say where you stand.

Posted by: MadisonConservative at February 19, 2013 03:39 PM (Y/HG5)

354 >>>when the tea party can confess a few lapses in judgment instead of
playing OMG UR SUCH A RINO card to forestall any such examination, I'll
get back on board.


When the Republican party will allow such a public self recrimination without a followup use of to diminish and silence the Tea Party then I would expect them to do the very same. But alas, the party seeks any weakness to ensure they maintain their ability to pick the candidates with complete autonomy, so expectations of "we screwed up" are as unrealistic of me expecting Rove et al to admit publicly that they have managed us into a huge mess.

Goose/Gander, neither one will admit when it is flat out wrong, and both are therefore in a prisoner game situation of perpetuating lack of unity. You seem to only be intent here on noticing that one side is involved in the subtle betrayal, when in fact both sides are doing the same thing.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at February 19, 2013 03:39 PM (0q2P7)

355 Really, tasker, that's the point? No, I have never donated to TPP, but I do know that I get shitloads of political mailers that come from clearing houses/vendors like this one. I assume TPP will no longer use this vendor, capitalism in action.

Posted by: lincolntf at February 19, 2013 03:39 PM (ZshNr)

356 Perpetual conflict is destructive. Occasional conflict which is resolved by negotiation is healthy.

We've defined negotiation as surrender. So as of late, any "negotiation" is immediately designated as bad. Then we spend all of our time talking about why it is bad and why we won't "negotiate".

Meanwhile, we have a good basis for an idea, that could serve us all, but we won't negotiate to make it better. Because the guy who had that idea is an establishment guy or conservative or Tea Party guy or GOP Proud guy.

Our strength was our diversity and ability to take simple constructs, assemble them into meaningful policy and articulate that to voters.

Now we just sit around and hurl invective and accusations.

Posted by: Marcus at February 19, 2013 03:39 PM (GGCsk)

357 "I'm not talking about taking sides; I'm talking about the OPPOSITE of taking sides: That is, taking each idea on a case by case basis and evaluating the idea, no matter which team it came from. "

So, after the primaries are done you're advocating not taking sides. Just taking each individual point and either agreeing with the republican candidate or relentlessly pounding on them, post after post, picking the carcass clean and grinding the bones to the glee of the democrats.

That it?

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 03:39 PM (ZDsRL)

358 Of course they did. They're lying...or rather, they're lying by omission: note that (from what I see so far) the TPP has pointedly failed to say that they "never saw it before it went out."

Posted by: Jeff B.


1. "They're LYING!"

Oops, no

2. "They're lying by Omission.!!!!"

Jeff, the high school called. They want their goal posts back.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:40 PM (Ipj15)

359 Of course they did. They're lying...or rather, they're lying by omission: note that (from what I see so far) the TPP has pointedly failed to say that they "never saw it before it went out." Because obviously they would have had a look at their fundraising plea before okaying it. What probably happened, assuming this vendor isn't just falling on their sword, is that someone down the chain selected that Rove photo, but the TPP guys looked at it and thought "hey, no problem here!" And only later realized they'd really crossed a line.
Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:37 PM (bcLhD)

__________________

They are also belatedly admitting that the Nazi stuff is ineffective--as opposed to some of the opinion upthread.

That come with time--like after you stop going to frat parties--maybe.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:41 PM (r2PLg)

360 Besides, how else would you explain continued talk of a Jeb Bush presidential candidacy?

Rove found 'deep pocket' Presidential candidates in 2008 and 2012 and lost both times. Can you think of anyone else with pockets deep enough for him? Hint: It won't be someone from the Tea Party.

see also: Einstein, definition of insanity

Posted by: Regular Moron at February 19, 2013 03:41 PM (feFL6)

361 Once again, the only reason the GOP is being challenged on their right is because the refuse to govern on the right. Pass a budget that eliminates a couple of cabinet level departments and go home--the problem will take care of itself.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 03:42 PM (KAWvv)

362 358
Of course they did. They're lying...or rather, they're lying by
omission: note that (from what I see so far) the TPP has pointedly
failed to say that they "never saw it before it went out."

Posted by: Jeff B.


WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE ANYWAY!

Posted by: Hillary Rohdam Ratfink 3:00 am phone call BEEP leave a message Clinton at February 19, 2013 03:42 PM (+OTLF)

363 And yes, COD was a complete trainwreck and a dipshit of the first order(I'll never forget that awful radio interview), but not every Tea Partier still thinks she was a gift from Above. Same with Joe Miller, and Sharron Angle, and others...but you know what? I'm guessing you don't think a lot of the shit that comes out of John McCain's mouth represents you, or out of Lindsay Graham's mouth, or Peter King's, etc. In other words, yes, some fucknuts pull some stupid shit from time to time. Should the entire group be painted with that brush, or not? Should all Republicans be thought of as "Ronulans" because he was an elected Republican for years?

Posted by: MadisonConservative at February 19, 2013 03:42 PM (Y/HG5)

364 350

i'm not defending O'Donnell but liberal Republicans in that general area have been going extinct on their own regardless. there may just be a realignment where Republicans compete more heavy in currently lean-blue Midwestern states, and don't worry so much about winning back parts of the West Coast/Northeast

who knows though

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:42 PM (60GaT)

365 Here are your two choices--maybe someone can come up with a third way--like Clinton.

Either they do not spend the donations of hard working people--wisely--or Nazi cartoons are effective.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:43 PM (r2PLg)

366
eeesh...

A lot of this infighting could start going away....if Karl Rove simply started reaching out to the Tea Party.

We know that he is capable of 'reaching across the isle', because he does it with the Dems.

Posted by: wheatie at February 19, 2013 03:44 PM (DZbQ0)

367 If the republican establishment runs Jeb Bush, i will take a year off work and follow him to every primary event and fling monkey poo at the podium while dressed in a code pink vagina costume and screaming BOOOSH! so that i can be sure to be protected in my freedom of self expression by the press that will no doubt be there and eagerly covering my activities.

Posted by: Hillary Rohdam Ratfink 3:00 am phone call BEEP leave a message Clinton at February 19, 2013 03:45 PM (+OTLF)

368 this popcorn needs salt

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at February 19, 2013 03:45 PM (yh0zB)

369 >>>>>Fine, we get it: I'm an asshole.

No, JeffB., you're a giant, gaping vagina.

If you were an asshole you might garner some respect.

Posted by: nitpicker at February 19, 2013 03:45 PM (mJ950)

370 "Rove is sometimes wrong, but the idea of supporting the most conservative candidate who can win- how is that not a no-brainer?


To disagree is to suggest (as many of the more delusional of the TP set regularly do) you're in favor of candidates who will lose... because True Conservative."



Bullshit. To disagree is to point out that Rove's strategy is a proven loser. Not only has Rove not been able to deliver, but he's damaged the brand and it has fuckall to do with TRUUUUUEEE KHHAAAANN!!.


It's about results and not only has Rove fucking failed miserably, but he's the one who started an internecine war by allying with the media in their demonization of the TEA Party.


Who in their right mind at this point is going to argue for Rove's lack of results?


So when Rove is rightfully pointed out to be the Big Government Control freak we all rail against here constantly and that as a proven failure, he might not be a good for The Party, suddenly it's beyond the fucking pale to criticize him and we want loyalty oaths?


I don't want a loyalty oath, I want someone who can win. Rove isn't it.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 03:45 PM (yCvxi)

371 I figure I will have to hear about COD forever since the list of failures is so short.

But this is a waste of time anyway. The voters in the primaries will decide, not us.

Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 03:45 PM (OQpzc)

372 >>>Jeff, the high school called. They want their goal posts back.

Jesus, you don't even understand the point I'm making, do you? Either that or you think this is some sort of Debate Society where if you sling enough insults, you'll "win." I seriously doubt that I need to explain to you why the Tea Party Patriots are lying when they say "zomg we had nothing to do with this it was the vendor" if they had final editorial approval of it. It's for the same reason that the fuckin' law of agency exists.

This sort of post on your part gets back to another of Ace's posts about the degeneration of human intellect and behavior on the internet: you're trying to not see my point, specifically to avoid the perceived 'loss of face' that comes from acknowledging that someone you find odious has a better argument than you. So it's "move the goal-posts!" this and "who wants to agree with the icky guy!" that.

It's childish. The whole goddamn thing, people arguing with their hearts and not their brains, people investing emotional identity into one side of an issue, taking up for 'teams', all of it. It's a goddamn shame, and you don't need to perpetuate it. You're better than that, I know you are.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:46 PM (bcLhD)

373 I agree, 340, but Obama has been such an economic incompetent that rational suburbanites would have to have been aware of this even if voting Republican makes them feel skeezy over backing the party of backwards hicks. It's as though this has become more unseemly than voting for the party of their illegal Mexican landscaper and the dumb, big fat black lady at the DMV.

Posted by: Zippity Doo Dah at February 19, 2013 03:46 PM (E55AK)

374 Forgot one thing--

if you choose the option--

"nazi cartoons are effective" the guys who did this already bailed on you.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 03:46 PM (r2PLg)

375 >>MadisonConservative

Don't behave as if the attitudes toward O'Donnell, Angle, Miller, and so forth are just the rantings of a vocal minority. If that were the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion regarding Rove at all.

This is a pervasive attitude that the establishment is poison, that they're worse than Democrats, and that anyone who even so much as supports a candidate associated with the Establishment (regardless of their actual voting record and philosophy) is an agent of the devil and is not to be believed.

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:47 PM (xp1pq)

376 Rove has one philosophy, money for Rove.

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 19, 2013 03:48 PM (+I8Mq)

377 "By the way, it seems the great conservative revival in Delaware is paying off massive dividends already. Why, just last November there was a Senate election in the state, in which the massive Delaware conservative juggernaut managed a shade over a quarter of the vote."

If the goal is to just have people with (R) after their name, then the Tea Party is doing it all wrong. Unfortunately, Tea Party people grew tired of politicians who went to congress saying they were conservatives, but turned out to be big spending liberals.

Now we have a quarter of the vote in Delaware. If other conservatives pick up the ball and articulately explain what they are about, we'll get that percentage up and one day win.

It's better than what we've been living with.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 03:48 PM (ZDsRL)

378 "So when Rove is rightfully pointed out to be the Big Government Control freak"

no

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:48 PM (60GaT)

379 If anything paste his head on Scrooge McDuck

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 19, 2013 03:49 PM (+I8Mq)

380 I guess it should also be said that Mittens Rombley lost because the base stayed home. We have to remember who the GOP base is and keep them plugged in. Don't call them names and minimize them. The repukes will never win another national election trying to "out democrat" the real democrats.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 19, 2013 03:49 PM (jucos)

381
370 -- Burn the Witch
Uh -- I am not holding out Rove as the champion of conservativism, but saying that he is a loser seems to be an unfair charge. The last two presidentialcampaigns won by the GOP were run by Rove.

Posted by: nc at February 19, 2013 03:50 PM (YvFZ3)

382 The sad part here is that the Tea Party, or any proposed third party, is only better than the GOP for a few months.

Then the lobbyists get to them. Then they believe their own hype. Then they're just as bad as the others.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at February 19, 2013 03:50 PM (4Mxjw)

383 A football analogy for the GOP would be the NY Jets, and let's be honest folks, the Republicans ARE the Jets and we're typical Jets fans.

Rove is like Rex Ryan, he knows best who to play even if they get their asses handed to them because they're Rove/Rex's loyal soldiers. Rex picked Sanchez and no matter how much he sucks out there, he won't put Tebow in because Tim was forced on him by the GM and owner. He'll keep Tebow on the bench in order to prove that he was right all along, even while his man Sanchez stinks up the joint.

Odds are that Tebow isn't going to be much better either, but it's assured because Rex is always going to set him up to fail


Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:50 PM (mCvL4)

384 "We've defined negotiation as surrender. So as of late, any "negotiation" is immediately designated as bad. Then we spend all of our time talking about why it is bad and why we won't "negotiate"."


No, we've defined the result as surrender. The issue is results. Something Republicans have not been able to achieve either legislatively or electorally.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 03:51 PM (yCvxi)

385 373

"the economy's been lousy" doesn't translate to "i agree with Republican healthcare and economic policy"

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:51 PM (60GaT)

386 >>i'm not defending O'Donnell but liberal Republicans in that general area
have been going extinct on their own regardless. there may just be a
realignment where Republicans compete more heavy in currently lean-blue
Midwestern states, and don't worry so much about winning back parts of
the West Coast/Northeast

Is that what you see?

Because I see lost Senate races in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and completely thrown away in Indiana and Missouri. I see MI, OH, PA, WI, going to Obama by comfortable margins. I see us getting blasted out of the water in some Midwestern swing districts and barely holding on in others.

Do you really think that the Midwest is strong enough that we can simply throw away what strength we have in the Northeast?

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 03:52 PM (xp1pq)

387
>>>Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 03:48 PM (ZDsRL)
Yeah guys, if we work really hard to purge these traitors we can finally get all the way down to 25% support nationwide.
Then, after we've alienated an overwhelming majority of the country and purged those most inclined to be our allies, we can begin to reclaim this nation for conservatism.
It's brilliant.

Posted by: Paul at February 19, 2013 03:52 PM (JM48I)

388 Ace,

Not quite sure what your point is here.(though the whole Nazi-Rove thing is silly beyond belief)

You want us all to have team spirit for the Republicans as a generic sort of thing? Is that correct?

You want Republicans to win - regardless of how liberal they are- just so we can have a victory?

I'd point you to Rove's greatest victory with "W". We won everything and yet lost everything- the Republican brand was destroyed between W trying to resurrect the Rockefeller/GHW Bush brand and Rove "compassionate/big government conservatism".

We elect a House to stop Obama's destruction of the country and get spineless acquiescence to Obama/Reid massive spending.

Is it too much to fight for or at least try to find- people who don't think they are due a large part of my income?

Yes, we should always publicly fight/insult/obstruct the Dims but no that doesn't mean Rove shouldn't be opposed and his candidates defeated in the primaries.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 19, 2013 03:53 PM (j2lYi)

389 And another thing..... why is Delaware still even a fucking state. Put a fence around it and let Maryland's cows and chickens graze there and move the 12 remaining Delaware residents to Federalsburg MD

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 19, 2013 03:54 PM (jucos)

390 >>>It's as though this has become more unseemly than voting for the party
of their illegal Mexican landscaper and the dumb, big fat black lady at
the DMV.


And yet that is exactly right. Because conservatives are in tragic denial about the fact that we live in an extended cultural moment (brought about, yes, in large part by a vile media and entertainment industry) where it is PRECISELY more socially opprobrious to vote for the Party That Hates Fags, Mexicans, and Women vs. the Party That Hates Business. Bemoan it all you want, but the damage is 1.) done; 2.) irreversible. Conservatives need to either shift their arguments to more politically successful grounds (i.e. economic and libertarian ones) or find some brilliant new as-yet-unknown way to sell the old shit in a better way. Or die.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 03:54 PM (bcLhD)

391 "I am not holding out Rove as the champion of conservativism, but saying that he is a loser seems to be an unfair charge. The last two presidential campaigns won by the GOP were run by Rove."


And tell me how the last two presidential campaigns fared with Rove's preferred guys in the spotlight? Tell me how successful the Republican brand was after Bush's second term and their policy of just ignoring the media.


Results results results. Keep arguing against them.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 03:54 PM (yCvxi)

392 383 A football analogy for the GOP would be the NY Jets, and let's be honest folks, the Republicans ARE the Jets and we're typical Jets fans...

Jets fans don't get to choose their QB; GOP voters do.

Posted by: 80sBaby at February 19, 2013 03:55 PM (YjDyJ)

393 370 -- Burn the Witch

Uh -- I am not holding out Rove as the champion of conservativism,
but saying that he is a loser seems to be an unfair charge. The last two
presidentialcampaigns won by the GOP were run by Rove.

Posted by: nc at February 19, 2013 03:50 PM

Rove is the Bush family consigliere so he'll pull out all the stops to obtain or retain their power.

Bush lost to Lurch by a hair only because Lurch was such an idiot that he found multiple ways to shoot himself in the foot. Even then it was so close that Rove should have been scared.

It was also Rove's genius plan to let attacks on Bush go unanswered, allowing a narrative to develop that every goddamn ill that anyone suffers to this day is Bush's fault

Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:55 PM (mCvL4)

394 386

i was musing in what direction things might go in. obviously i don't know for sure. i do think the current CW on how the GOP must "reach out" has flaws.

as for Indiana and Missouri those are separate issues. you could nominate very conservative candidates there provided they don't kamikaze.

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 03:55 PM (60GaT)

395 Conservatives need to either shift their arguments to more politically successful grounds (i.e. economic and libertarian ones) or find some brilliant new as-yet-unknown way to sell the old shit in a better way.

Posted by: Jeff B.


So, like the TEA party, right?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 19, 2013 03:55 PM (Ipj15)

396
I guess I'm beyond fed up with this crap--it just NEVER stops.

Back to the local arena and races for me.


You guys have fun flinging shit at each other.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 19, 2013 03:56 PM (SAMxH)

397 This is childishness. This is turf warfare. This is Yankees vs. Mets, for adults instead of young boys.

I still detest the fucking Yankees and support my Mets in the same way I did when I was 12

You know as well as anyone who grew up in the NYC area that Mets vs Yankees is NEVER outgrown

I even root for the Red Sox to beat the Yankees and the Sox fans are total assholes

Posted by: kbdabear at February 19, 2013 03:57 PM (mCvL4)

398 Rove jerks off single handedly.

In criticizing COD 10 minutes after her victory, Rove gave cover to Matthews, Williams, Ace, Beckel, et fucking cetera.

It didn't help.

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 03:58 PM (11Tdq)

399 Bullshit. To disagree is to point out that Rove's strategy is a proven
loser. Not only has Rove not been able to deliver, but he's damaged the
brand and it has fuckall to do with TRUUUUUEEE KHHAAAANN!!.


What is his "strategy"? Collect money and spend it to elect Republicans, including the likes of TP favorites like Rubio?

I'm pretty fucking far from being a fan of the Bush era "compassionate conservative", K Street Project bullshit, and Rove deserves whatever criticism he gets for his role in that.

For suggesting that maybe we should take a closer look at candidates before nominating them, so we don't get unelectable grifters like O'Donnell? No.

I sure didn't see Rubio turning away the $2 million Rove spent on his race.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 04:00 PM (SY2Kh)

400 "In criticizing COD 10 minutes after her victory, Rove gave cover to Matthews, Williams, Ace, Beckel, et fucking cetera. "

The rule of thumb should be that Chris Mathews is saying the same thing you are, you might want to rethink your position.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 04:00 PM (ZDsRL)

401 >>>So, like the TEA party, right?

If the Tea Party wasn't utterly poisoned as a brand, then sure. Their basic principles? Of course. But you can't win national elections on a consistent basis with "lower taxes" as your message. You need a positive reform program of some sort. And too many Tea Party types interpret any GOP attempts at reform as the act of a traitor, as if to say that they're betraying conservatism by acknowledging the legitimacy of institutions and programs they would prefer to fix or reform. It's a reflex suspicion of anyone who wants to "negotiate" or "work with the other side" because the other side are all Devils, and what do we think about people who willingly work alongside Satan?

Seriously, that seems to be, on a subrational level, the basic thought process.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 04:01 PM (bcLhD)

402 >>Lou

Take out all the hyperbole in your comment and leave only that those in the Establishment GOP are "not to be believed"...and yeah. You've hit the nail on the head. What remaining credit has the GOP for integrity? We see posts every week and every month talking about how Boehner and the GOP-led house keep rolling over and refusing to fight for ANY real reform or spending cuts. If they're unwilling to put their balls on the line for the taxpayers, then what good are they?

Put another way: why do you remain with the spouse that keeps insisting that they will change, that they'll stop the obnoxious neighbor(let's call him Obama) from doing their various bullshit in your yard...but always chickens out and never gets anything done? Meanwhile, that same spouse keeps spending their free time complaining about the neighbor living on the other side(let's call him Shaneequa), who keeps standing up to the obnoxious neighbor, keeps trying to get the homeowner's association to look into his clearly criminal activities, and encourages your spouse to join with him in order that the street can be cleaner and safer.

Posted by: MadisonConservative at February 19, 2013 04:01 PM (Y/HG5)

403 angle odonell even palin...those candidates would have done better if the MOTHER FUCKING RINOS on our side on tv werent giving them a thousand paper cuts each day to secure their dc cocktail circuit invites before the voters hit the booths.

Just saying...YOU MOTHER FUCKERS NEED TO CARRY THE WATER FOR THE TEAM TOO EVEN IF YOUR QUARTERBACK ISNT THE ONE FUCKING THE HEAD CHEERLEADER IN THE ASS THIS WEEK!...sheesh...hate to have to scream out the obvious.

Or did anyone forget how retarded 1/32 lizzie mchighcheeckbones was as a candidate but her party wasnt on tv tearing her down every day...nope.\

fucking morons with Rs think SHUTTING THE FUCK UP is not neccessary but BITCHING NON STOP is.


Posted by: Moochie Antoinette Lobsterzilla Obama at February 19, 2013 04:01 PM (+OTLF)

404 I've learned the following things in this thread:

1. Marco Rubio is an example of TP success

and

2. Marco Rubio represented the Rove wing of the SOTU

Also...

1. Ace is pissed at the TP for beating Perry

and

2. Ace should be mad at Rove for something he did to Perry

Finally

1. Rove not supporting COD after the primary was the reason she lost

and

2. Rove supporting Cruz, Rubio, Rand after the primary was inconsequential


(and they wonder why we say they're illogical)

Posted by: BSR at February 19, 2013 04:01 PM (CBCxo)

405 Here's an updated statement from TPP and from the outside vendor that made the mistake.
Tea Party Patriots Statement:
In an email sent under the banner of Tea Party Patriots, a manufactured image of Karl Rove was added to the email which Tea Party Patriots did not know about or approve. The image, which was added by an outside vendor Active Engagement, L.L.C., was inappropriate, wrong and we have ordered the vendor Active Engagement, L.L.C. to immediately cease further use of the image.
We apologize to Mr. Rove. While we may have strong disagreements with Mr. Rove on the future of conservatism, we want to be clear this imagery is absolutely unacceptable and are working to ensure this type of mistake doesn’t happen again.

Active Engagement Statement:
An email that was sent earlier today under the banner of Tea Party Patriots included an offensive image of Karl Rove. The image was obviously a photo shopped image of Mr. Rove, a well-known political figure. The image was selected in error from an extensive group of images available publicly online and was adjacent to the image that Tea Party Patriots approved for use. The email that included the image was not approved by Tea Party Patriots. Active Engagement, L.L.C. takes full responsibility for this error and is attempting to contact everyone who received the image to explain the error. More importantly, Active Engagement, L.L.C. apologizes to Mr. Rove for this mistake. Active Engagement, L.L.C. does not believe there is any place in political discourse for images such as these.

Ace, I think you are awesome and I agree with you much of the time, and find your commentary and analysis thoughtful and entertaining. However, I think you're overreacting, even to the "rah-rah" aspect you derided. Someone like Karl Rove is a major problem, and there are those of us that genuinely believe we have to defeat that strain of liberalism within the Republican Party and the conservative movement at large - when it comes to things like overspending and the growth of government. It's not about purity tests or loyalty oaths. I'm sorry you see it that way.

It's about doing what Milton Friedman said, “I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.”

Tea party groups and supporters across the nation are simply trying to create the necessary pressure to force the supposed conservatives to abide by their own espoused ideas, platform, and principles of fiscal responsibility, Constitutionally limited government, and free markets. All of us here understand we cannot continue to spend the way we do, and that we cannot continue to grow the federal government's size and authority. The groups that are fighting big government's momentum are passionate and will take on people and forces like Rove because we can't afford not to. Literally. You're assigning shallow motives to the people fundraising, but how are they to fight a fundraising behemoth like Karl Rove without funds? It's obviously fine for you to disagree with the style of fundraising email, but try not to assume that the people behind this are in it for "position" or similar. They're in it because they're scared to death about the future of this country. At the very least, I think we can all see that it was an honest mistake to use the incendiary photoshopped image of Rove. They've even apologized for it, which is more than Rove has done after trying to destroy conservative candidates that won't fall in line.

Posted by: KC at February 19, 2013 04:01 PM (xkpN4)

406 "In criticizing COD 10 minutes after her victory, Rove gave cover to Matthews, Williams, Ace, Beckel, et fucking cetera."


Rove is an idiot. I'm supposed to back the guy's play who gave us a President who increased the size and scope of government and damaged the Republican brand seemingly beyond repair.


He has since been unable to produce positive results. The TEA Party, strangely enough, has.


And yet we have otherwise extremely intelligent, life experienced people coming in here to argue against results. Mystifying.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:02 PM (yCvxi)

407 I sure didn't see Rubio turning away the $2 million Rove spent on his race.
That piece of shit Rove didn't spend a dime on Rubio until it became apparent that he was going to win big time.

Lots of guts making that call.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 04:02 PM (ZDsRL)

408 Do people here realize that Karl Rove was Marco Rubio's biggest backer early on, back when Rubio was just some nobody in the Florida State Senate and Charlie Crist had been anointed by the NRSC?

Seriously: Marco Rubio is a Senator today for two reasons -- Karl Rove's massive early support and money and strategy aid, and the National Review cover story.

But Karl Rove is evil. And actually, I've noticed that when you go into the comments at Hot Air or even around here these days...well, Marco Rubio is apparently evil too! And of course, the same people grunting about this inevitably point out that he's friends with "those Bush establishment people."

Fucking retards.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 04:03 PM (bcLhD)

409 407-Ha

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 04:05 PM (11Tdq)

410 Rubio's not evil but (through no real fault of his own) he is a symptom of the GOP "thinkers'" lazy-ass post-election strategy

i.e., amnesty + nothing = win

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 04:06 PM (60GaT)

411 >>>That piece of shit Rove didn't spend a dime on Rubio until it became apparent that he was going to win big time.

This is transparently false, and proves the point that Ace and others have been making about your ilk: you simply CREATE a false "fact" to replace the actual truth, because the actual truth doesn't square with your nice "heroes and villains" narrative.

The truth is that Rove was writing checks for Rubio as far back as OCTOBER 2009, back when Crist was a mega-favorite in every poll and Rubio was an unknown. You maybe might've heard of him...nobody else had, though.

(LINK: http://tinyurl.com/b9jgkyf)

But hey: fuck reality, my fantasy narrative is way more fun, amirite?

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 04:06 PM (bcLhD)

412 "For suggesting that maybe we should take a closer look at candidates before nominating them, so we don't get unelectable grifters like O'Donnell? No.


I sure didn't see Rubio turning away the $2 million Rove spent on his race.


Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 04:00 PM (SY2Kh)"



How well did McCain and Romney work out? They were so totally electable, right? Looks to me like the TP has about the same ability to pick quality candidates as Rove does.


Of course Rubio didn't turn the money down. Did Rove have to run down the candidates he didn't like? Did he have to run down the TP? Nope. He wasn't suggesting we take closer looks, he was actively running them down.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:07 PM (yCvxi)

413 >>He has since been unable to produce positive results. The TEA Party, strangely enough, has.

Angle, O'Donnell, Buck, Mourdock. Shining paragons of Tea Party electoral success. And Angle lost despite Rove deviously pouring $10 million into her race.

Now, I'm sure you can list off a litany of candidates who weren't supported by the Tea Party who lost. And good for you. But don't make the idiotic claim that the Tea Party is some great success. It just makes you look like a dummy by extension.

Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 04:07 PM (xp1pq)

414 Rove only supported COD after she had already beat his boy Castle...Lots of guts that took for the piece of shit RINO fuck

Posted by: Alternate History at February 19, 2013 04:07 PM (CBCxo)

415 actually i shouldn't say through no fault of his own. he is pushing amnesty after all.

still my issue's not with him so much as the Great Hispanic Hope premature hype

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 04:07 PM (60GaT)

416 It is fundamentally conservative to realize that even Tea Party political consultants are political consultants.

Political consultants -- even the dreaded Karl Rove -- will do whatever a powerful politician tells him to do.

If conservatives have the power, he will dance to that tune.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 19, 2013 04:07 PM (T0NGe)

417 Looks like Ace hit the doughnut hole in his prescription drug plan.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 19, 2013 04:08 PM (BuSM8)

418 "Seriously, that seems to be, on a subrational level, the basic thought process.
Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 04:01 PM (bcLhD)"



Again, nothing resembling a substantive verifiable point of fact in your comment.


Plenty of hopped up emotion and evidence of you buying into the MSM narrative on the TEA Party, so you've got that going for you.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:08 PM (yCvxi)

419 406-History started with the Election of the One.

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 04:09 PM (11Tdq)

420 That piece of shit Rove didn't spend a dime on Rubio until it became apparent that he was going to win big time.


Not true.

Keep in mind that Rove's American Crossroads PAC didn't spend money on primaries- only general elections.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 04:10 PM (SY2Kh)

421 Waiting for jwest to come back and admit he was 100% wrong about Rove and Rubio.

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 19, 2013 04:10 PM (bcLhD)

422 when the status quo allows RINOS to run the Party, this is all necessary, this fight needs to happen and happen now.

there can be only one!

Posted by: Snooki at February 19, 2013 04:13 PM (jdOk/)

423 "The truth is that Rove was writing checks for Rubio as far back as OCTOBER 2009, back when Crist was a mega-favorite in every poll and Rubio was an unknown. You maybe might've heard of him...nobody else had, though."

Rove stroked a 1K check after Rubio, an unknown, had raised 600K on his own in the previous quarter.

That's not a contribution, that's covering the bases. When you see your boy Crist losing steam and young Cuban coming up strong, you send hima little taste, just in case.

Check Rove's record against the Tea Party in 2010 and see who the early backer were.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 04:13 PM (ZDsRL)

424 Angle, O'Donnell, Buck, Mourdock. Shining paragons of Tea Party electoral success. And Angle lost despite Rove deviously pouring $10 million into her race.


Now, I'm sure you can list off a litany of candidates who weren't supported by the Tea Party who lost. And good for you. But don't make the idiotic claim that the Tea Party is some great success. It just makes you look like a dummy by extension.


Posted by: Lou at February 19, 2013 04:07 PM (xp1pq)



Are you actually suggesting that the TEA Party had no successful candidates? Are you implying that the TEA Party had nothing to do with the Republican 2010 Midterm success?


Because if you are, and you require me to list all the TEA Party types that one, you might want to refrain from saying I'm the one who looks like a dummy.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:14 PM (yCvxi)

425 Delusional, see up thread.

Posted by: nip at February 19, 2013 04:15 PM (11Tdq)

426 >>>> You need a positive reform program of some sort. And too many Tea Party
types interpret any GOP attempts at reform as the act of a traitor, as
if to say that they're betraying conservatism by acknowledging the
legitimacy of institutions and programs they would prefer to fix or
reform<<<<<<


And the JeffB's are the reason the GOP ain't with its weight in chickenshit.

The dems take power and establish a new department like the Education or Energy and then they use tax payer funds funneled through those departments to fill the coffers of their cronies and engage in publicity campaigns and lawfare to drive public opinion to the left and to make donations to the DNC and democrat candidates at election time. Then the GOP takes power and instead of acting in its own defense and eliminating this shit--the JeffB's want to negotiate.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 04:15 PM (KAWvv)

427 @424 tea party types that "won", not one. Fingers moving too fast.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:16 PM (yCvxi)

428 >>>Hope and prayer is not a strategy.

But McCain and Romney were?

Posted by: FrozenStiff at February 19, 2013 04:16 PM (LyV/0)

429 anyone who starts from the assumption that the primary reason Bush "tainted" the R brand for the general public is cuz he spent too much/implemented a couple new federal programs is fitting facts to their reality

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 04:17 PM (60GaT)

430 How well did McCain and Romney work out? They were so totally electable, right? Looks to me like the TP has about the same ability to pick quality candidates as Rove does.

This is a dumb argument that keeps getting repeated despite being dumb.

You do realize that "electable" does not mean "guaranteed winner", right?

Just as dumb is the repeated whine that "The Establishment" nominated Romney and McCain. No, primary voters did that, mostly out of a lack of strong alternatives. McCain's campaign was nearly flat broke at one point- that wasn't because of lavish "Establishment" support. Likewise, it was "The Establishment" who pushed for Daniels and Perry to get into the race- and it wasn't because they were in love with Romney.

Are you suggesting that if only we listened to the Tea Party, we'd be talking about President Bachmann right now? Or are you angry that the mythical "Establishment" boogeyman didn't publicly trash Romney?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 04:17 PM (SY2Kh)

431 Karl Rowe not endorsing COD --should have acted as a sort of endorsement--right?

If you hate Karl Rove then him not liking your candidate COD--should have been a bonus,

It's most likely that she lost for a host of reasons.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 04:18 PM (r2PLg)

432 The Tea Party's record was mixed in 2010. It did a lot of good picking off all the blue dogs and taking the house district by district. It scared Spector away to elect Toomey and helped bring in Rubio. But it also fucked up 3 very winnable senate seats. Like everything else its not so damn black and white. The TP isnt perfect and Rove isn't a fucking boogeyman.

Posted by: BSR at February 19, 2013 04:18 PM (CBCxo)

433 It's most likely that she lost for a host of reasons.
Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 04:18 PM (r2PLg)

I don't think anyone has ever argued that COD would have won if she had gotten GOP support. All people have said is that it was totally unhelpful for Rove to attack her 10 minutes after she won the primary.

Once a candidate is chosen, it sucks to have people on our side tearing our candidates apart.

Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 04:22 PM (ZDsRL)

434 431: Oooh I know, was it because she was a hack con artist who never had a real job and had a history of saying balls out nutso things on national television, spread rumors that her opponent was gay and claimed that his henchmen were hiding in the bushes to spy on her?

Was it because some people cant understand the difference between the electorate of a low turnout closed GOP primary and a general election in a deep bue state, and only put together the formulation that "beat castle = beat coons"?

Nope. It was Rove.

Posted by: BSR at February 19, 2013 04:22 PM (CBCxo)

435 Once a candidate is chosen, it sucks to have people on our side tearing our candidates apart.
Posted by: jwest at February 19, 2013 04:22 PM (ZDsRL)

_______________

I hear you there, jwest.

Hopefully someone can unite all of these schisms and come out well during the next Republican primary for the Presidential election.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 04:26 PM (r2PLg)

436 From the Tea Party to Move On, stupidity reigns in this country. Idiocracy is our fate.

Posted by: packsoldier at February 19, 2013 04:30 PM (M4d4i)

437 Karl Rove is a Nazi. His right-wing exploitation of America's racial tensions was a great insult to the multiracial wisdom of our beloved President, Barack Obama.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at February 19, 2013 04:33 PM (jCQ+I)

438 "360 Besides, how else would you explain continued talk of a Jeb Bush presidential candidacy?"


Because he represents a faction within the Republican Party? Because different factions have different emphases and are not lockstep? That squabbling amongst factions is normal and not a sign of treason?

Some people do get too enamoured of their own viewpoints to be comfortable with broad coalition political parties, but that is the type of party our system produces and rewards. Work with that or be consigned to powerlessness.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Pirate Scum of Umbar at February 19, 2013 04:36 PM (hLRSq)

439 Hopefully someone can unite all of these schisms and come out well during the next Republican primary for the Presidential election.

Posted by: tasker at February 19, 2013 04:26 PM (r2PLg)


Fat fucking chance when the "standard model" is to piss and shit all over allies and then scream at them for not wanting to put up with it.

This whole fucking article is based on embracing a lie (that this was the TPP's idea and they endorse it) and then spreading that lie like manure over the entire movement, somehow staining them all as stupid, irredeemable misfits.

That's a gigantic, hostile pile of horseshit. I'm totally fucking sick of that shit.

I don't think that kind of behavior is what the GOP is supposed to be about, but if it is, there's nothing that can stop them from failing so you'd better get ready for it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 19, 2013 04:38 PM (bxiXv)

440 "anyone who starts from the assumption that the primary reason Bush "tainted" the R brand for the general public is cuz he spent too much/implemented a couple new federal programs is fitting facts to their reality


Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 04:17 PM (60GaT)"



The electoral massacre of 2008 is not an assumption.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:43 PM (yCvxi)

441 "The electoral massacre of 2008 is not an assumption."

did this massacre happen because the public had war fatigue and a little thing was happening with the economy, or because Bush won some extra grandma votes with Medicare Part D four years before

Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 04:46 PM (60GaT)

442 236 PS the GOP isn't fucked because of the tea party--it is fucked because of its own miserable failure to perform.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (KAWvv)

Yep.

Posted by: ddan at February 19, 2013 04:51 PM (q1RJB)

443 Ace, you answered your own question not too long ago. Conservatives are defined by, if nothing else, rugged individualism. Unlike the leftists, we don't have a herd mentality of simply doing what our "betters" tell us to think or feel. Nowhere is this demonstrated than the the Tea Party (for conservatives) and OWS (for the lefties).

There really isn't anything that unites the Tea Party other than putting the breaks on out-of-control government spending, unlike OWS which is united by an entire Trotskyite wannabe ideology and upper-class whiteness in spite of its "diverse grassroots" veneer. Different people have different ideas about how to accomplish that goal, and even about conservatism itself. So this infighting is going to happen because any time you get this kind of genuine diversity, arguments are always going to result.

I don't know that we *can* be as united in purpose as the leftists, since that demands us becoming the sheeple they are and accuse us of being and preventing our individual components from speaking their minds by shouting them down/silencing them rather than just arguing with them.

Now as much as I have a strong distaste for Washington insiders, I'll give Rove the benefit of the doubt as assume he 1) got suckered into the MSM memes about the Tea Party, and 2) is just as frustrated as you about the catherding aspect of trying to unite conservatives. I'm *hoping* he doesn't look at the Tea Party as an outside threat to his power base and that he somehow missed the battle for the heart and soul of the nation and assumes this is all just business as usual. But it's a lot easier to tell him to pull that rod out of his backside than attach one incident of bad behavior by one single element to an entire nebulous movement.

Posted by: The Ghost of Flannery O'Connor at February 19, 2013 04:52 PM (mMtFx)

444 How about this? Separate the ideas from the groups: one can like the ideas loosely clustered under the banner of "the tea party" and have no group affiliations whatsoever.

Why bother fighting against any groups? It is the ideas that matter and that drive elections.

Posted by: Fabio9000 at February 19, 2013 04:52 PM (0j0LH)

445 "Are you suggesting that if only we listened to the Tea Party, we'd be talking about President Bachmann right now? Or are you angry that the mythical "Establishment" boogeyman didn't publicly trash Romney?
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 19, 2013 04:17 PM (SY2Kh)"



No, I'm suggesting that the Republican party has done a poor job of searching for and cultivating conservative candidates. They have done an even worse job of winning elections and have had a much longer track record of losing legislatively. I'm forced to conclude that it's either by incompetence, or by design.


In either case, it's damning to the establishment.


I'm not looking for a bogeyman, I'm criticizing the lack of results. You want to keep thinking the Republican party can achieve anything more than Slightly less Democrat, you go for it. I got off that insane train last month when Karl Rove decided that the enemy of his enemy was his enemy.


You keep expecting different results though, despite all evidence to the contrary. And I'm the one with the dumb argument.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:52 PM (yCvxi)

446 "did this massacre happen because the public had war fatigue and a little thing was happening with the economy, or because Bush won some extra grandma votes with Medicare Part D four years before


Posted by: JDP at February 19, 2013 04:46 PM (60GaT)"



Medicare Part D wasn't the only expansion of government and increase in spending brought to us by the Bush admin. Not by a long shot.


The public didn't have war fatigue, the public had Bush/Republican fatigue. Rove's master plan of allowing the media to say whatever they wanted with no response allowed Bush fatigue to continue into 2013.


Obama responds to just about all criticism, no matter how small. Seems to have worked wonders.


So Bush and Republicans got the blame for war and the economy. Great strategerizing there Rove. And yet, at some point he's gonna deliver. Hasn't delivered in 8 years, but that's ok, we'll get 'em next time.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 19, 2013 04:58 PM (yCvxi)

447
<So, what we have here is a professional political fundraising
organization accusing another professional political fundraising
organization of not being pure enough. This is childishness. This is turf warfare. This is Yankees vs. Mets, for adults instead of young boys.>


Maybe the mark of conservatives is that they won't support a voter coalition. Worse yet, they zealously assassinate the impure from their voting ranks, assuming rank self righteousness.

Posted by: cheap tinfoil hats at February 19, 2013 05:02 PM (MhA4j)

448 There was an era when around half of elected Republicans were some variation of Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chaffee, but those days are long gone, that's why these turf wars are so stupid. It's all about tribalism, not real policy goals. What specific policy argument do the Tea Party groups take issue with?

I don't hold Rove in high regard, but it seems to me he wants to make sure fatally flawed candidates don't win primaries, something I support. Rubio made the point that Rove was one of the first people to write him a check when he was down by 30 points in the polls. Rove supported Rubio because he knew he was electable and NOT the same caliber of politician as Christine O'Donnell.

I guess the new badge of TruCon street cred it to push for candidates that will likely lose because they make such awesome concession speeches that wins over hearts and minds. Any effort to push electable Republicans is really a closet Leftist.

Posted by: McAdams at February 19, 2013 05:08 PM (l8sH3)

449 442
236 PS the GOP isn't fucked because of the tea party--it is fucked because of its own miserable failure to perform.



Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 19, 2013 03:11 PM (KAWvv)



Yep.

Posted by: ddan

+1

The GOP bites the hands that registered as such and voted for conservative campaign promises.

The GOP miserable failure to perform again as campaigned was THE reason that conservative voters protested, the grassroots of the protests organized with the tag "tea party" as again, Americans were to be (and are now) taxed without (rule of law) representation when Obama's initial Congressional Majority "ruled" the inaffordable ObamaCare as "law" -- and adding injury upon death blow, the SCOTUS played revisionist definitions.

The Clintons...
Bill, 'It depends on what "is" is.'
Hillary, 'What difference does it make!!!!?'

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 19, 2013 05:10 PM (MhA4j)

450 What specific policy argument do the Tea Party groups take issue with?
__

Over spending.
Over taxing.
Authoritarianism.

Posted by: Dept. Of Accuracy Dept. at February 19, 2013 05:11 PM (MhA4j)

451 The Tea Party began to die as soon as someone tried to make something out of it.

The ideals are still sound: limited government, maximum liberty. But once you get to organizing an idea into a political movement, it all hits the crapper.

Posted by: red speck at February 19, 2013 05:14 PM (9/Ug/)

452 Ace, you pick the weirdest fucking hills to die on.

Posted by: Kerry at February 19, 2013 05:21 PM (AYfPj)

453 Fuck Rove and the rest of the McCain/ Romney people who say conservatives can't win, but have yet to give us a winning presidential candidate. The gop can choke on Karl's dick.

Posted by: Dr. Eviler at February 19, 2013 05:24 PM (PMqmM)

454 Yeah, had to go look for work. Just saw your reply to my post about your types tearing people like Sarah down and or not supporting them when other people do.
Fuck you ace. You're nothing but a fucking lib in R clothing. It's people just like you who have allowed this country's slide to the left.
Let it fucking burn baby. You ain't the type to be able to survive when it does.

Posted by: teej at February 19, 2013 05:33 PM (dxLXf)

455 Yeah, this picture of his mighty Roveness in an SS uniform is in bad taste.

The Nazis won more elections.

Posted by: Call me Ishmael at February 19, 2013 05:38 PM (Sn89p)

456 >>>455Yeah, this picture of his mighty Roveness in an SS uniform is in bad taste.

The Nazis won more elections. Posted by: Call me Ishmael at February 19, 2013 05:38 PM (Sn89p)Yep, just keep turning your noses up at the only guy to manage a victorious GOP presidential campaign in the last quarter century. Then purge the backstabbing traitors, secure our pure core 25%, and cry yourselves through the next 50 years of socialist rule.

Posted by: Paul at February 19, 2013 05:46 PM (JM48I)

457 214
Posted by: Invictus at February 19, 2013 03:07 PM (OQpzc) ------- That's it, isn't it? They squandered the passion. I can't believe all the people at the town halls became pod people in 3 years. Our leaders ignored it all.

Posted by: Baldy at February 19, 2013 05:53 PM (opS9C)

458 NY Mets = Karl Rove
Yankees = Tea Party

Seriously Ace who would you rather be playing for?

If you say the Mets then god help you and I say this as a Yankees hater.





Posted by: William Eaton at February 19, 2013 05:58 PM (rwioF)

459 Let me also say Karl Rove's Bush strategy got Obama elected not once but twice.

The legacy of Bush, and his Field Marshal (Baron Karl von Rove), will continue to hurt this party for years to come. Bush was our Jimmy Carter, and now the architect of that mess and legacy wants to be the man again.

That should worry the heck out of any conservative, or heck any moderate conservative who actually wants to win. The Tea Party has made some mistakes but nothing equal to the damage Rove has done to this party.



Posted by: William Eaton at February 19, 2013 06:05 PM (rwioF)

460 Ace,

I'd buy this a whole lot more if Rove wasn't the guy who pulled out the whole "Be Loyal to the Party, and we'll take care of your concerns" card a half-million times before to ZERO effect.

If Rove wasn't the guy who almost single-handedly ended the influence of the Reagan Revolution in the GOP, and instead replaced it with a pandering demographic Realpolitik squishes that proceeded to cede the Left the rhetorical and ideological high ground we had seized under Reagan.

If, in fact, he was not a complete buffoon whose only lifetime success was being able to count votes in Ohio.

Posted by: Shawn G at February 19, 2013 06:09 PM (/lltO)

461 True Cons didn't even rebel against Bush until the immigrant thing. It wasn't Medicare, deficit spending, or No Child Left Behind that they threw a big tantrum over.

Posted by: Shoot Me at February 19, 2013 06:23 PM (qiXMt)

462 Everyone talks about how the "Tea Party" was sidelined for the Presidential race and the Establishment forced Romney on us.

Please tell me, who was the pure Tea Party candidate that got beat in the Primary but would have defeated Obama?

Posted by: McAdams at February 19, 2013 06:27 PM (l8sH3)

463 "At what point do I actually have to sign Loyalty Oaths?"

You don't. We don't want you in the Tea Party. Stay in the ineffectual Republican Party that keeps funding ObamaPhones (and all of Obama's other projects) with borrowed taxpayer dollars.

We don't want you in OUR party.

Posted by: someguy at February 19, 2013 06:40 PM (8XRrT)

464 459 Bush was our Jimmy Carter, and now the architect of that mess and legacy wants to be the man again.



You're a very silly man and I'm not going to interview you.

Posted by: JJ Stone at February 19, 2013 07:12 PM (diRA1)

465 Rove is a crook who wants a national Tammany Hall political machine. If primaries go the wrong way for this agenda he will see to it the Democrat wins, if he he can't fix the ballot to include His Guy. He tried that in Missouri. That's not something tax-free donations can be used for, and sooner later the Justice Department is going to say so.

Whatever you favor as a flavor of public policy, a mercenary abusing a 503(c) without caring a damn what laws get passed, is nobody's helper in the long run.

So why not say so, now?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at February 19, 2013 08:04 PM (T4dLB)

466 I think people also find Rove disingenuous. He says we need fewer Akins (for his stupid comments), but at the same time, backs George "Macaca" Allen over Jamie Radtke, a very talented woman who had the support of the tea party in Virginia. So if he wants a more electable candidate to emerge from the primary process, who doesn't say stupid things and doesn't make mistakes, why did he back George Allen?

Tea partiers also want the most electable conservative candidate. We just happen to think that some of the people like Rand Paul ARE electable and conservative, while people like Tommy Thompson are neither.

People like Rove could have been more helpful if, after people like Akin had won the primary, they went in and helped him with media training, debate training, etc. Had Rove put money and effort into building up the candidates that won the primary, perhaps he could have helped prevent a stupid mistake. That is how he could be a force for good, and compliment the grassroots efforts.

Posted by: KC at February 19, 2013 08:17 PM (xkpN4)

467 “considered with the chilly remove of reason” Sweet. Sometimes Ace’s writing can give me a chubby ... oh, TMI? That line was like Poe & Shakespeare-y in one.

Posted by: FURPC at February 19, 2013 08:31 PM (0ImZM)

468 Hey look, another blog entry where some cocksucker jumps on the Tea Partyat thedrop of a hat, whines about not having enough unity to kick Democrats' asses, and his little turdmunching sycophants yell Rah Rah Go Team Rove Go in the comment section.

Jesus, just go full Charles Johnson already.

Posted by: NotAMoose at February 19, 2013 08:31 PM (ZZg4j)

469 Oh, and by the way, you mindless asshats. If you can’t at least give some credence to the sentiment of Ace’s concern you are for all intents and asshatery the archetype that gave this petulant child a second term.

Posted by: FURPC at February 19, 2013 08:41 PM (0ImZM)

470 Yeah NotAMinion, winning will bring us nothing. We should rather wring our hands considering your righteous principles.

Posted by: FURPC at February 19, 2013 08:50 PM (0ImZM)

471 469 Oh, and by the way, you mindless asshats. If you can’t at least give some credence to the sentiment of Ace’s concern you are for all intents and asshatery the archetype that gave this petulant child a second term.
Posted by: FURPC at February 19, 2013 08:41 PM (0ImZM)

This is way past Ace's second term. OH! Oh...you meant--nevermind.

Posted by: Kerry at February 19, 2013 09:57 PM (AYfPj)

472 " If you can’t at least give some credence to the sentiment of Ace’s concern you are for all intents and asshatery the archetype that gave this petulant child a second term.
Posted by: FURPC at February 19, 2013 08:41 PM (0ImZM)"

So what? I can give credence to the sentiment of Nazi patriotism, too; doesn't mean I'm not glad we bombed the shit out of the bastards.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at February 20, 2013 12:49 AM (9yQFl)

473 Does anyone else remember when Tea Partiers were offended when the far left compared them to Nazis?

And no, this didn't start with Rove. He's doing that pesky little thing called expressing his opinion--y'know, that other thing that Tea Partiers felt the far left was demonizing them for. And fun fact: Rove isn't wrong. Yes, there are TP favorites like Toomey, Rubio and Cruz. What about Akin or Murdock, or some 2010 losers? What about the guy that challenged McCain in the primary and lost?

The Tea Party has descended into the kind of juvenile, "my way or the high way" nonsense that other fringe groups get criticized for. Yes, fight for your beliefs, but don't be so arrogant as to presume that a candidate that isn't 100% for your agenda is somehow worse than the candidate that openly doesn't support most or any of your positions. "How dare Scott Brown behave that in the Senate? Why, he... behaved like he said he would... but it completely shattered my personal perception of the man that ran counter to what he actually said. So it's his fault!" It's pathetic.

Posted by: tops116 at February 20, 2013 01:34 AM (GPIio)

474 "Yes, fight for your beliefs, but don't be so arrogant as to presume that a candidate that isn't 100% for your agenda is somehow worse than the candidate that openly doesn't support most or any of your positions."

So why support Rove, who helps Democrats defeat the "wrong" winner of the Republican primary?

Your Republican Party is delivering nothing.
Taxpayer-funded abortion.
Implementation of Obamacare.
Higher taxes.
Expanded entitlements.
Gun control.
Amnesty.

These should be defeated in a Republican House with a cheer. Instead they find Republican sponsors in the Senate and the House gives them a vote where a Republican minority makes token opposition.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at February 20, 2013 10:25 AM (Z9Ca5)

475 468 Hey look, everybody! An ex-Lizard just came by to remind us about their principles. Let's thank him or her for not being smart enough to stop talking about nuking Muslims and Creationism when they were asked to.

Posted by: Shoot Me at February 20, 2013 11:51 AM (qiXMt)






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