CNN's Don Lemon: We Must Take Seriously Chris Dorner's "Not Crazy" Manifesto
Ex-Girfriend: Chris Dorner is "Twisted" and "Super-Paranoid"

Different perspectives.

Don Lemon is a hyperpartisan leftist who has Sympathy for a Devil because he wrote a screed that, while probably all made up, nevertheless satisfies the threshold to engage tribal racial and political loyalties.

On the other hand, someone who had to deal with this psychopathic serial killer (have we lost our minds? he's a serial killer) pronounces him crazy.

In the web posting, Dorner is described as "severely emotionally and mentally disturbed," ''twisted" and "super paranoid." It also said he flashed his police badge on their first date, lives with his mother and hates himself for being black — at one point asking her to act more like a white woman.

"Just be careful because this guy is a police officer and he will probably think that he can get away with anything. ... If you value your sanity, stay away from this guy."

Posted by: Ace at 03:36 PM



Comments

1 Don Lemon?

THE Don Lemon?

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 03:37 PM (RuUvx)

2 Foisty?

Posted by: CSMBigBird at February 11, 2013 03:37 PM (jsWA8)

3 Dang, not 1st...

Posted by: CSMBigBird at February 11, 2013 03:38 PM (jsWA8)

4 People like Lemon need "people" like Dornan so they can convince themselves that someday there will be a revolution and they will win.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at February 11, 2013 03:38 PM (qvify)

5 Two state solution, already.

Posted by: BuddyPC at February 11, 2013 03:38 PM (jfUIE)

6 He's really more of a spree killer than a serial killer. But otherwise, yeah.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at February 11, 2013 03:39 PM (6WVi+)

7 Don is such a delicious bitch.

Posted by: Toure at February 11, 2013 03:40 PM (WM+rJ)

8 I'm ready for Rick Perry to stop trying to bring in good Californians. I have to suspect all the good ones have already left. Let CA keep the rest of the liberal crazies, even if they have a good business.

Posted by: SH at February 11, 2013 03:40 PM (gmeXX)

9 Bitch set me up!

Posted by: Roland THTG at February 11, 2013 03:40 PM (QM5S2)

10 Usually, the left waits until the psychopath is in prison to champion his cause (e.g., Mumia). They're moving #forward.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at February 11, 2013 03:40 PM (BvTwT)

11 The Left will have us all living in an asylum in a few short years. For the children.

Posted by: Arkham at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (71LDo)

12 Imagine this Super-Twist to the Dorner man-hunt story:
A suspect is identified and killed by a missile strike from a drone in North America. The Drone has, alas, murdered an innocent man - even with all of the pains-taking layers of fact checking: it kills the wrong +6' 270Lb hiker dude and the man-hunt continues...(DARPA and LAPD pensions hardest hit!)

Posted by: MoJoTee at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (e1kfW)

13
"and hates himself for being black — at one point asking her to act more like a white woman."

A little OJ Simpson anybody?

Posted by: rrpjr at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (pnjFD)

14 Why don't you wingnuts appreciate nuanced understanding??

Posted by: The Don Lemon at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (60GaT)

15 Question:

How the fuck did Dorner make it past the review process and become a police officer? The psych and personality reviews should have caught this guy. This is really fucking scary to think that there are a lot more other Dorners out there with a badge and gun, ready to kill someone because they were "slighted".

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (GQ8sn)

16 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (8y9MW)

17 Lived with his mother? Seriously?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 03:42 PM (UOM48)

18 I'll bet Don Lemon says that about all delusional psychopaths doing their best to destroy America.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 03:42 PM (XUKZU)

19 I suspect this guy killed himself and they just haven't found his body yet. And when they do, they will make him out to bea martyr to racism, like St Treyvon

Posted by: thunderb at February 11, 2013 03:42 PM (Dnbau)

20 A self-loathing black? Dear gawd....

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:43 PM (GQ8sn)

21 To be fair, who wouldn't flash a badge on the first date? Because... Sexytime.

Posted by: wooga at February 11, 2013 03:43 PM (SDLxN)

22 Well Chris Lemon wants to have sex with Dorner, the female wanted to get away from his loving...

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 03:43 PM (cfOd2)

23 Lived with his mother? Seriously?

Well ... Thoreau, the laundry, and all that ...

Posted by: Adriane ... at February 11, 2013 03:43 PM (TvO05)

24 The left will support this guy because he is one of them. That's the full extent of their decision making process. That's what we're dealing with.

Posted by: shillelagh at February 11, 2013 03:43 PM (hRzu2)

25 Then fucking do something about it. Quit crying about this and take to the streets. Are we that pathetic?

Posted by: AgentLobos at February 11, 2013 03:43 PM (mqz8Q)

26 Who does the LAPD's psych evals? Tire Kingdom?

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 11, 2013 03:44 PM (BH8oG)

27 15 Question:

How the fuck did Dorner make it past the review process and become a police officer? The psych and personality reviews should have caught this guy. This is really fucking scary to think that there are a lot more other Dorners out there with a badge and gun, ready to kill someone because they were "slighted".

---

$10 says that political pressure and/or the race card were a factor.

As I've mentioned several times on the Dorner threads, New Orleans had a police officer named Antoinette Frank who killed her partner and several people while robbing a restaurant she had guarded while off-duty.

After her arrest, it came out that she'd flunked the psychological exam but was put onto the NOPD anyway after political pressure was exerted on her behalf because she's black.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:44 PM (e0xKF)

28 Who's up for a lemon party?

Posted by: Don Lemon at February 11, 2013 03:44 PM (ggRof)

29 Imagine Barry asking Mooch to "act more white."

Imagine the doctor feverishly patching him up.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 03:44 PM (UOM48)

30 Former LEOs should be exempted from our new gun restrictions.

Posted by: Govs Cuomo and Brown at February 11, 2013 03:45 PM (SDLxN)

31 The USSR probably had no idea its useful idiot program would be so successful,and so virulent.very scary.at least forget soviet bloc countries are immune now

Posted by: joeindc44 at February 11, 2013 03:45 PM (nUqf+)

32 How the fuck did Dorner make it past the review
process and become a police officer? The psych and personality reviews
should have caught this guy. This is really fucking scary to think that
there are a lot more other Dorners out there with a badge and gun, ready
to kill someone because they were "slighted".


Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (GQ8sn)

This is LAPD were talking about. I've heard a lot of horror stories of who actually gets through. A few people I know in LAPD spend more time complaining about the people they work with than the situations they run into.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 11, 2013 03:45 PM (NzBQO)

33 Someone's got the Fever.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2013 03:45 PM (n81hy)

34
Dorner is nuts, crazy, psycho, whatever you want to call it --- INSANE.

Sane people do not kill in cold blood the daughter (and her fiance) of someone they have a disagreement with. Anyone "who supports" or "likes" this idiot is sick. Dorner is one step removed from the monster that shot up the Newtown school. They were both seeking vengeance on someone else by killing those they loved. That is sick and twisted.

That said, the LAPD and Torrance PD are a bunch of scared, trigger happy storm troopers who are lucky that their shooting was so poor they did NOT murder innocent preople.

Posted by: rd at February 11, 2013 03:45 PM (zLp5I)

35 I see that someone tweeted to Don Lemon asking "Since you seem to approve of Dorner's fans, do you have a bright line you can share on when it's ok to support a cop-killer?"

I think the answer is as simple as black and white.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 03:46 PM (XUKZU)

36 If life gives you lemons, I say, make lemonade!

Posted by: Don Lemon at February 11, 2013 03:46 PM (0PiQ4)

37 Everybody's got a special kind of story


Everybody finds a way to shine,


It don't matter that you got not alot


So what,


They'll have theirs, and you'll have yours, and I'll have mine.


And together we'll be fine....



Because it takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.


Yes it does.


It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.

Posted by: C'mon everybody!! at February 11, 2013 03:46 PM (KXm42)

38 THIS JUST IN:

The suspect formerly known as Chris Dorner announced via a spokesman that he has converted to Islam.

Shafeeq Hashemi, as Mr. Dorner now calls himself, has been offered a reality show on Al-Jazeera USA and an associate professorship at Central University in Qatar.

CAIR is concerned that Mr. Hashemi will face Islamophobic persecution and has expressed its desire that Mr. Hashemi be given immunity and allowed to travel as Allah directs him.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 03:46 PM (RuUvx)

39 Oh wait,it's the Don Lemon. Never mind,for he is as wise as he is magnificent

Posted by: joeindc44 at February 11, 2013 03:46 PM (nUqf+)

40 That said, the LAPD and Torrance PD are a bunch of scared, trigger happy storm troopers who are lucky that their shooting was so poor they did NOT murder innocent preople.

---

This.

It's a good thing that the Torrance PD are such lousy shots, given that they fired around 30 times at those two women.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:47 PM (e0xKF)

41 If you get all your information from TV you would probably think only white people are crazy.


But black folks can be just as crazy.

Posted by: C'mon everybody!! at February 11, 2013 03:47 PM (KXm42)

42 "and hates himself for being black — at one point asking her to act more like a white woman."

I don't know that that's so much Dorner hating HIMSELF for being black, so much as him hating black women. There's a difference, though where a psychopathic serial killer is concerned I don't know that it's an important one.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 03:48 PM (4df7R)

43 Dorner's LAPD training officer reports that he told her he had experienced behavioral and mental changes after leaving the Navy, that his family had remarked on it, and that he intended to "get help".

These days, when a veteran "gets help" with mental issues, it usually comes in the form of being prescribed fistfuls of powerful psych meds. Meds that in case after case have been shown to produce dangerously impulsive violent behavior.

I've seen people benefit hugely from antidepressants. I've also seen other people go totally off the rails into irrational internal wonderlands from the very same pills, and do things you would never imagine they could or would do. It's wildly unpredictable from individual to individual, and the medical system refuses to address the resulting problems.

What frustrates the hell out of me is that the medical privacy laws often prevent the public from learning about these effects. Look at the Newtown shooter. Family friends report that kid was medicated up to his eyeballs, but officialdom resolutely refuse to confirm or deny anything relating to his history of treatment.

Not to suggest that Dorner may not have been intrinsically unstable and grandiose to begin with. But if he had been assisted along the path to frank psychosis by a poorly thought through and inattentively monitored drug regime, it would be nice to know about, would it not? Yet you won't ever know the actual facts.

Posted by: torquewrench at February 11, 2013 03:48 PM (gqT4g)

44 If life gives you lemons, I say, make lemonade! host a lemon party!

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2013 03:48 PM (n81hy)

45
Don Lemon: hey, you know, Hitler did some good things, too, such as making the trains run on time

Posted by: soothsayer at February 11, 2013 03:48 PM (BUcLz)

46 I realize it's a purely technical distinction, but a serial killer has multiple (usually expected to be at least 3-5) separate incidents of killing. A spree killer has essentially one continuous rampage, which would seem to be the case here.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 11, 2013 03:48 PM (TOk1P)

47 I just don't get why the left wants to imbue this maniac with any redeeming virtues. They really are sick fucks

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 03:49 PM (9Bj8R)

48 Hey.....what's worse than a late train?

Srsly

Posted by: C'mon everybody!! at February 11, 2013 03:49 PM (KXm42)

49
a serial killer has multiple (usually expected to be at least 3-5) separate incidents of killing. A spree killer has essentially one continuous rampage, which would seem to be the case here

'It's better to burn out than fade away!'
-C. Dorner

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2013 03:49 PM (n81hy)

50 I hope that she has taken all necessary precautions to protect herself from both Dorner and the LAPD. Oh how I wish I were joking about the latter.


Is there anything the Left won't forgive? I mean other than daring to voice even nominally conservative ideas.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (VtjlW)

51 You conservatives are only opposed to Dorner cause he of its black

Posted by: joeindc44 at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (nUqf+)

52 this tracks with someone's observation in Ace's twitter feed that in the liberal moral script, there are only two possible villains:

1) conservatives

2) Society (i.e. conservatives)

Posted by: JDP at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (60GaT)

53 A lot of my ex-girlfriends say similar things about me. Crazy bitches.

Point is, consider the sauce.

Posted by: major major major major at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (utCAk)

54 And early trains? Not much better.

amirite?

Posted by: C'mon everybody!! at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (KXm42)

55 Don Lemon: hey, you know, Hitler did some good things, too, such as making the trains run on time

Posted by: soothsayer at February 11, 2013 03:48 PM (BUcLz)

No that was Mussollini, Hitler was the one who made the goose step famous

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (9Bj8R)

56 Personally, I'd hate to be living in the town where they filmed "First Blood." That's going to be a beacon to a guy like Dorner.

I'd hate to liver there, unless my name were Brian Dennehy. In which case I'd be Scotch guarding my fleece-lined leather barn jacket, gettin' ready.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (RuUvx)

57 Then fucking do something about it. Quit crying about this and take to the streets. Are we that pathetic?
But Oprah's on.

Posted by: LoInfoVo wit de O Pho at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (QM5S2)

58 If you listened to Limbaugh today you heard charlie Sheen give a shout out to Chris Dorner.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (XUKZU)

59 dude that was Mussolini. Gernmans are always on time. Great record keepers

Posted by: thunderb at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (Dnbau)

60 I realize it's a purely technical distinction, but a serial killer has multiple (usually expected to be at least 3-5) separate incidents of killing. A spree killer has essentially one continuous rampage, which would seem to be the case here.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 11, 2013 03:48 PM (TOk1P)


MSNBCerial Killer has a nicer wring to it than MSNBCpree Killer, though.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (4df7R)

61
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:47 PM (e0xKF)

I feel for the neighbors too. One guy had 5 bullet holes in the wall and roof by the entryway to his home.I wonder how many other homes were shot up, and I hope everyone of them sue the police dept.'s silly.

Posted by: rd at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (zLp5I)

62 53 A lot of my ex-girlfriends say similar things about me. Crazy bitches.

Point is, consider the sauce.

---

"What's wrong with you?"

"Woman problems."

"Bitch pressing charges? I get that a lot."!

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (e0xKF)

63 It is funny that totalitarian always point to train timelines as some sort of amassing thing.the private sector made the trains and they run then better.

Posted by: joeindc44 at February 11, 2013 03:52 PM (nUqf+)

64
This is LAPD were talking about. I've heard a lot of horror stories
of who actually gets through. A few people I know in LAPD spend more
time complaining about the people they work with than the situations
they run into.



A friend of mine wanted to become a police officer and he told me part of the application process, a little deeper in, where they start screening you for the reasons "why" you want to become a cop and how you would act in certain situations. He described it almost as an actor auditioning for a part in a movie or play. He was given a cue card describing the situation (domestic abuse) and two other officers were there playing the "husband" and "battered wife". He was not a police officer at that point, but the panel (several senior cops and shrinks) wanted to see how he would act as a police officer, what he thought he would do as one. He had to literally play-act a cop and just go by his own instinct on how he thought a real cop would respond.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)

65 Get away with anything? We have an commando r in chief already with that assumption..

Posted by: Clemenza at February 11, 2013 03:52 PM (x59Gv)

66
'Bitches, man. Bitches.'
-C. Dorner

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2013 03:53 PM (n81hy)

67 Black cop killers idolized by the left: Chris Dorner, Mumia.

White cop killers idolized by the left: ???

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 03:53 PM (XUKZU)

68 66
'Bitches, man. Bitches.'
-C. Dorner

---

"I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one!"
-C. Dorner

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:53 PM (e0xKF)

69 So.....this guy's a murderous version of Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks?

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at February 11, 2013 03:53 PM (jg/AU)

70
60 -

See, even there I'm going to have to be contrarian. I like the rhyme of MSNBCspree, rather than the more awkward MSNBCerial.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (TOk1P)

71

Squeeze the Lemon.
Take the Lemon Pledge.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (DAoux)

72 Mark Fuhrman made a pretty good point on Fox earlier when he said something like "let's not make this guy out to be Jason Borne".

He's a former Naval Reservist and former rookie cop. Rambo he ain't.

I almost shouted at the TV when they were making his Naval "marksman" rifle rating sound like he was one step short of a sniper. No, you dumb fucks- "marksman" is the lowest badge you can get and still pass. It means that he occasionally hit his target when qualifying.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (SY2Kh)

73 I suspect the Pope.

Posted by: Piers Morgan at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (ntNJz)

74 Don Lemon: hey, you know, Hitler did some good things, too, such as making the trains run on time

Bitch, that was me!

Posted by: Benito Mussolini at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (ggRof)

75 I mentioned this toward the end of the previous thread, but now the LAPD is apparently concerned that MSNBCerial Killer may know how to fly a plane. How they could only just now learn this info is beyond me. The fact of the matter is if he CAN fly a plane he's probably done so by now.

As Hollowpoint noted in response, you'd better hope the LAPD doesn't have anti-aircraft guns.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (4df7R)

76 Hitler gave us the People's Car.

Posted by: mallfly at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (bJm7W)

77 69 So.....this guy's a murderous version of Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks?

---

Does the genetic testing say he's 102% black with a 2% margin of error?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (e0xKF)

78 I can't blame Lemon for wanting to get in on the ground floor. Dorner's writing shows promise. A couple of post-conviction kid's books and he could be the next Tookie Williams.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (6WVi+)

79 It took the FBI like 12y to get Kazinski...and only then after a relative gave him up.

If this dude makes it to ground and chills until it all dies down and pops up every 6mo or so to do one well planned hit, they could be playing whack-a-mole with him for a very very long time.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (BH8oG)

80 There is a possibility that this guy is dead somewhere with his brains blown out all over the floor. Now actually I don't think so. I think he wants to go out in blaze of glory or gory or what ever, but I think it is strange he has been so silent

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (9Bj8R)

81 Don is fabulous.

Posted by: Ben Tinker at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (tOkJB)

82 White cop killers idolized by the left: ???

Bill Ayers came close.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (SY2Kh)

83
oh, and let's remember what's really important...


MITT ROMNEY'S TAX RETURNS!!1!

Posted by: soothsayer at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (LL42r)

84 Does anyone know if LAPD offers reintegration training? Every link I see about it refers to Dorner's complaint, not any such program. I see other links too where private groups offer reintegration training.

So I guess I'm asking, is that a real thing? Was he making extraordinary demands of the LAPD, or is it something they do?

Posted by: bonhomme at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (5ippP)

85 As Hollowpoint noted in response, you'd better hope the LAPD doesn't have anti-aircraft guns.

The Mexican airlines better divert away from Cali for the next couple of weeks.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (GQ8sn)

86 so, you are saying in letting Dorner go and enraging him, the LAPD acted stupidly

Posted by: thunderb at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (Dnbau)

87 As Hollowpoint noted in response, you'd better hope the LAPD doesn't have anti-aircraft guns.

---

I don't plan on being in LA's airspace anytime soon.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (e0xKF)

88 See, even there I'm going to have to be contrarian. I like the rhyme of MSNBCspree, rather than the more awkward MSNBCerial.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (TOk1P)


But the C on MSNBC is the same sound as the "S" in "Serial." So it just flows nicely. "MSNB-Serial Killer" if you will.

But honestly, I'll take either one so long as it hangs him around MSNBC's lily white throat.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 03:56 PM (4df7R)

89 Anyone notice Dorner looks like a heavier LL Cool J?

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (GQ8sn)

90 72 hollowpoint,

No it means 60%+ iirc.....


Ie "still better than LAPD"

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (LRFds)

91 "Bill Ayers came close."

Don't misunderstand me, I don't endorse this man's actions. BUT...

Posted by: Lemoning at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (60GaT)

92 I still prefer MSNBC Superfan Spree Killer.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (UOM48)

93 Sociopath

Posted by: The Jackhole at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (nTgAI)

94
Personally, I'd hate to be living in the town where
they filmed "First Blood." That's going to be a beacon to a guy like
Dorner.



I'd hate to liver there, unless my name were Brian Dennehy. In
which case I'd be Scotch guarding my fleece-lined leather barn jacket,
gettin' ready.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 03:51 PM (RuUvx)









Depends, does David Caruso get stabbed in the ass with a bowie knife again?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (TIIx5)

95 and what HAPPENS if DORNER has the same SKIN THING that MICHAEL JACKSON had? How would WE find him?

Posted by: BumperStickerPlover at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (RuUvx)

96 If this dude makes it to ground and chills until it all dies down and pops up every 6mo or so to do one well planned hit, they could be playing whack-a-mole with him for a very very long time.

---

Unabomber got away with it for so long because he was secluded and no one knew who he was until his brother recognized the manifesto.

It's a little harder to disappear when everyone knows who you are and what you look like. And that's not even going into this guy's mental state, which I don't think is condusive to a long-term game of cat-and-mouse.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (e0xKF)

97 The question that should be asked about this woman who dated him: Did she go out with him again?

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2013 03:58 PM (drE9i)

98 Dorner is a less capable Vic Mackey. He killed another cop, but was too stupid to pin it on the Armenians.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:58 PM (GQ8sn)

99 @ 15 How did dorner make it pass review process, ???
Hey dryballs in case you did not notice, we elected a Pesident of the former free world on a little less than legendary fallacy...

Posted by: Clemenza at February 11, 2013 03:58 PM (x59Gv)

100 Depends, does David Caruso get stabbed in the ass with a bowie knife again?
----

ummmmmm, yes. Yes he will.

Posted by: - God at February 11, 2013 03:58 PM (RuUvx)

101 If he stayed in the mountains without the right gear he may be frozen.

Posted by: The Jackhole at February 11, 2013 03:58 PM (nTgAI)

102
Depends, does David Caruso get stabbed in the ass with a bowie knife again?

---

Let's have Christopher Walken re-enact that scene from King Of New York with the shotgun, pls.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:58 PM (e0xKF)

103 MSNB-Spree.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (/kI1Q)

104 Is she on his hit-list?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (piMMO)

105

look, dont blame me if my fake Don Lemon doesn't know history

Posted by: soothsayer at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (/v7wy)

106 He's trying to restart the Rodney King riots, and the gun happy idiots of the LAPD aren't helping by shooting at little old ladies.

Unless he's already killed himself, I don't see this ending well.

Posted by: Lauren at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (wsGWu)

107 Cops? Psssh. Part of the military-industrial-prison-joo complex.

Posted by: Ron Paul at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (60GaT)

108 I don't watch CNN, so I had no idea who Don Lemon is.

I was shocked, I tell you shocked, to discover that he appears to be Black, but does not speak with a Negro accent.

Just darn shocked!

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (wR+pz)

109 If I had a racist, spree-killing brother...

Posted by: King Baracka Vomitus I at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (UOM48)

110 98 Dorner is a less capable Vic Mackey. He killed another cop, but was too stupid to pin it on the Armenians.

---

Dorner reminds me of Forrest Whitaker's character after he went off the deep end while chasing Mackey.

I wonder if this guy snapped after a bald white guy talked about how his estranged wife's pussy tasted like sweet cream.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (e0xKF)

111 Black cop killers idolized by the left: Chris Dorner, Mumia.Also...Joannne Chesimard, Angela Davis (not technically a cop killer, but blood on her hands nonetheless)...........

Posted by: Low Info Voter at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (YmPwQ)

112 Remember all those people who complain that Star Wars was poorly done because the Stormtroopers couldn't hit anything, well I give you the LAPD. It seems the one cop they had who could hit anything was crazy.

Posted by: Jean at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (S4AQU)

113 How the fuck did Dorner make it past the review process and become a police officer?

He was passing as white.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (F3G1y)

114 It's a little harder to disappear when everyone knows who you are and what you look like.

Half the tweeters in LA publicly admit to being willing to hide him.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 11, 2013 04:00 PM (/kI1Q)

115 >>89
Anyone notice Dorner looks like a heavier LL Cool J?


Or a slimmer Kingpin.


Posted by: anon at February 11, 2013 04:00 PM (Q1DS+)

116 I still prefer MSNBC Superfan Spree Killer.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (UOM4


Whenever I hear "Spree Killer," I picture a maniach hacking away at poor innocent candy discs.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:00 PM (4df7R)

117
White cop killers idolized by the left: ???

Bill Ayers came close.

***

Yeah, that's right. And Dorner could be a profess xor of eduction in thrity years.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 04:00 PM (XUKZU)

118 I never said I hate myself for being Black. My mom did.

Posted by: Don Lemon at February 11, 2013 04:00 PM (wR+pz)

119 103 Ms Radish,

Was just about to post that...though I still prefer Piers Morgan Killer

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 04:00 PM (LRFds)

120 Posted by: Ron Paul at February 11, 2013 03:59 PM (60GaT


I hope Rand duct-taped your wrinkly old ass to a chair and forced you to watch Chris Kyle's funeral, you nasty old bastard.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 04:00 PM (UOM48)

121 White cop killers idolized by the left: ???


Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 03:53 PM (XUKZU)
-----
Bill Ayers.... Bernadine Dorn

Posted by: fixerupper at February 11, 2013 04:01 PM (nELVU)

122
There is a possibility that this guy is dead somewhere with his brains blown out all over the floor. Now actually I don't think so. I think he wants to go out in blaze of glory or gory or what ever, but I think it is strange he has been so silent

Maybe after his truck died and he was stuck in the middle of nowhere that he decided that burrowing into a snow drift and eating his gun was the thing to do. I hope he did.

Or he planned to leave the truck there, and headed to Mexico via a car or motorcycle he had stashed up there. In that case, expect him to land in the zetas or another drug gang as hired muscle.

Posted by: rd at February 11, 2013 04:01 PM (zLp5I)

123 Oh gag. I just googled "lemon party." Stop corrupting me!

Posted by: L, elle at February 11, 2013 04:01 PM (0PiQ4)

124 Teh MSBNC killer

Posted by: The Jackhole at February 11, 2013 04:01 PM (nTgAI)

125 Oh gag. I just googled "lemon party.


The first rule of lemon party is...

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 04:01 PM (GQ8sn)

126 His ex says he's crazy?

Damn. Dorner's got 100 problems.

Posted by: Jay Z at February 11, 2013 04:01 PM (ihLiz)

127 There is a possibility that this guy is dead somewhere with his brains blown out all over the floor. Now actually I don't think so. I think he wants to go out in blaze of glory or gory or what ever, but I think it is strange he has been so silent
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 03:55 PM (9Bj8R)


----------------------------------------------


I'm thinking that as we feed this thread, he's sipping rum and coke on a Central American beach somewhere.

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2013 04:02 PM (drE9i)

128
I see that someone tweeted to Don Lemon asking "Since you seem to approve of Dorner's fans, do you have a bright line you can share on when it's ok to support a cop-killer?"

I think the answer is as simple as black and white.


What choo talkin 'bout Willis?

Posted by: Mumia at February 11, 2013 04:02 PM (Ag5D2)

129 There is a possibility that this guy is dead somewhere with his brains
blown out all over the floor. Now actually I don't think so. I think he
wants to go out in blaze of glory or gory or what ever, but I think it
is strange he has been so silent.


I say there's a 50/50 chance he defrosted in Hell days ago.

Reportedly he managed to break the axle of the truck they found burned up, and he left some of his gear and weapons behind inside. They found his tracks leading away from the vehicle, but lost them in the blizzard.

I'm guessing that Winter survival training isn't a high priority in either the LAPD or during a Naval deployment in Bahrain. It's unlikely he carried or owned a lot of cold weather survival gear, being from LA.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2013 04:02 PM (SY2Kh)

130 we elected a Pesident of the former free world on a little less than legendary fallacy...

***

I prefer, "with a single ply resume."

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 04:02 PM (XUKZU)

131 I'll take Don Cherry instead.

Posted by: © Sponge at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (xmcEQ)

132 Half the tweeters in LA publicly admit to being willing to hide him.

That million buck reward trumps tweet macho. They give him up in a NY minute.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (BH8oG)

133 I'm thinking that as we feed this thread, he's sipping rum and coke on a Central American beach somewhere.

I bet someone is hiding him. Unless he's really stupid, the police won't find him.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (GQ8sn)

134
DO NOT GOOGLE "LEMON PARTY"

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Posted by: Timon at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (hHlaS)

135 I'm willing to bet he's chillaxin' in Mexico.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (UOM48)

136 >>>89 Anyone notice Dorner looks like a heavier LL Cool J?

Yeah, I said last week that he's like LL Cool J after a bad shellfish reaction. Just "puffier". I suppose we're both racists.

Posted by: wooga at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (SDLxN)

137
Hitler gave us the People's Car.


Posted by: mallfly at February 11, 2013 03:54 PM (bJm7W)








Much beloved of hippies nationwide.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar..........sometimes it isn't.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (TIIx5)

138 It's a little harder to disappear when everyone knows who you are and what you look like. And that's not even going into this guy's mental state, which I don't think is condusive to a long-term game of cat-and-mouse.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (e0xKF)


Yeah, i don't picture Dorker (sic) as the type to go into hermitage up in the mountains and fall off the radar. His manifesto was all about him, not about abstract concepts like Kaczynski. He's a showy madman, and he'll go out in one of two ways:

1) Dead of exposure of self-inflicted wound, or
2) Killed in a blaze of glory

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (4df7R)

139 I'm guessing that Winter survival training isn't a high priority in either the LAPD or during a Naval deployment in Bahrain. It's unlikely he carried or owned a lot of cold weather survival gear, being from LA.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2013 04:02 PM (SY2Kh)


Actually that reminds me, I am suppose to sign up for cold weather training?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (9Bj8R)

140 i'm thinking he is dead.

Posted by: thunderb at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (Dnbau)

141 Democratic Party, Party of Lemon

Posted by: JDP at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (60GaT)

142 I'm thinking that as we feed this thread, he's sipping rum and coke on a Central American beach somewhere.

Ding ding ding, a Kewpie doll for Soona.

Maybe not in Central America, and maybe dead, but my guess is he's never to be heard from again.

Posted by: jakeman, Assault V2.0 at February 11, 2013 04:04 PM (96M6e)

143 Ya gotta go to Encyclopedia Dramatica for the proper definition of "Lemon Party".

Posted by: Ed Anger at February 11, 2013 04:04 PM (tOkJB)

144 Actually that reminds me, I am suppose to sign up for cold weather training?


Yes, you are.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 04:04 PM (GQ8sn)

145 I wonder how much he pre-planned. The boat incident tells me not much. Sociopaths can be bad planners and make spur of the moment decisions.

Posted by: The Jackhole at February 11, 2013 04:04 PM (nTgAI)

146
Far leftists like Lemon are the kind that, in their heart of hearts, have a sneaking admiration for regimes like that of Pol Pot. As long as their left wing goals are being met, what's a few lives?

Posted by: ejo at February 11, 2013 04:04 PM (GXvSO)

147 But he's fighting the man, man! Just because he's crazy is no reason to disavow him!

(sarc)

Posted by: Mikey NTH - It's Not Me, Babe at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (hLRSq)

148 Obviously poor sick LT Dornan's girlfriend is a racist. Oh, wait. She's a VICTIM of racism, which instills self-loathing in the African-American community. That's it. Either way, a climate of Republican hate is to blame.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (jCQ+I)

149 Probably thinks the perp is sexy, in a bad-boy sort of way.

Posted by: Rosie Morgan at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (RD7QR)

150 CNN appears to be jealous of MSNBCs close association with crazed murderers.

MFM delenda est.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (bxiXv)

151
On the next "Ripped from Today's Headlines" episode of Law and Order:
A black police officer goes on a killing rampage, and the detectives investigate and find clues that the murders were actually committed by a white 20 something tech billionaire, who framed the police officer because the cop once gave him a parking ticket.

Posted by: DaveinNC at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (boNGU)

152 So I guess not all background checks work?

Posted by: SH at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (gmeXX)

153 It's unlikely he carried or owned a lot of cold weather survival gear, being from LA.

Lots of cabins up there. He'd just jack someone else's shit.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (BH8oG)

154 women always claim their ex is a crazy psycho stalker, just like they can foresee the future and "sense danger", yet 99% of them are wrong.

Posted by: bro at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (8PRQX)

155 On the next "Ripped from Today's Headlines" episode of Law and Order:
A
black police officer goes on a killing rampage, and the detectives
investigate and find clues that the murders were actually committed by a
white 20 something tech billionaire, who framed the police officer
because the cop once gave him a parking ticket.



They already did that one.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (GQ8sn)

156 Going with the base assumption that this guy isn't going to taken alive, do we have a dead pool going yet?

I'll take three weeks from now, in a dirty Oakland apartment surrounded by Fritos bags, in a hail of SWAT bullets (while trying to surrender, per the lefts haiography)

Posted by: Jean at February 11, 2013 04:06 PM (R4WsQ)

157 It's unlikely he carried or owned a lot of cold weather survival gear, being from LA.Lots of cabins up there. He'd just jack someone else's shit.
Posted by: @PurpAv at February 11, 2013 04:05 PM (BH8oG)

Good point

Posted by: The Jackhole at February 11, 2013 04:06 PM (nTgAI)

158 "Then fucking do something about it. Quit crying about this and take to the streets."

Umm...Okay...like what?

Posted by: mrshad at February 11, 2013 04:06 PM (Xqfwb)

159 I'm hiding him out till the heat cools.

Posted by: D. B. Cooper at February 11, 2013 04:06 PM (tOkJB)

160 His mom was a typical white person.

Posted by: Barry Obambam at February 11, 2013 04:06 PM (ntNJz)

161 No that was Mussollini, Hitler was the one who made the goose step famous

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (9Bj8R)

I think my best were teh real skin lamp shades. They had that nice glow.

Posted by: Zombie Hitler at February 11, 2013 04:06 PM (wR+pz)

162 146

How should the 1% be dealt with? A balanced discussion.

Posted by: MSNBC Panel at February 11, 2013 04:07 PM (60GaT)

163 bro - pretty sure he is a crazed psycho killer

Posted by: thunderb at February 11, 2013 04:07 PM (Dnbau)

164 The really amazing thing is that Dorner is OK with the left even though he killed the daughter of a former cop and her finance. Even in the twisted world of cop hatred, killing their kids seems a little extreme.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 04:07 PM (XUKZU)

165 My prediction:

Chris Dorner Halloween masks this October.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (GQ8sn)

166 I am suppose to sign up for cold weather training?

Tell'em you don't need it; you already know how to buy a bus ticket to Miami. That's all the cold weather training you'll ever need.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (BH8oG)

167 Posted by: ejo at February 11, 2013 04:04 PM (GXvSO)

The hardcore left doesn't worry me so much as the middle. When the middle gets into a "do something, anything" mood, we end up in trouble, as the Left always has something horrible it wants to do. Dug out my old copy of Hannah Arendt, feel like there might be some useful things to reread there.

Posted by: Aaron at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (Tlix5)

168 Dorner should get the Oscar for Best Performance in Media Manipulation. He's dragging out his killings for days and days instead of a one-off. He has celebs reaching out to him. I'm sure he will have marriage proposals too. He's Robin Hood! Kinda.

When a dissenter to the hero theory is proposed, they are marginalized. Watch, they will "investigate" this poor woman and tank her.

Posted by: PJ at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (ZWaLo)

169 There is a possibility that this guy is dead somewhere with his brains blown out all over the floor.

I saw on the innertubes that he was posting on facebook, but it is the innertubes.

Posted by: madamex at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (+kvQd)

170 DO NOT GOOGLE "LEMON PARTY"

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Posted by: Timon at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (hHlaS)


DAMN YOU!!!!!!

Posted by: © Sponge at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (xmcEQ)

171 Chris Dorner? Isn't that the guy more commonly known as the Piers Morgan Serial Killer?

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (OlN4e)

172
O/T Uncle Ted Nugent will attend TFG's SOTU Address.

Hilarity to ensue.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (+z4pE)

173 I bet someone is hiding him. Unless he's really stupid, the police won't find him.
Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 04:03 PM (GQ8sn)


-------------------------------------------------


Ballads will be written about him. He'll become the D.B. Cooper of the 21st century.

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (drE9i)

174 How should the 1% be dealt with? A balanced discussion.


Posted by: MSNBC Panel at February 11, 2013 04:07 PM (60GaT)

-----
jeebus...... do we have to go over this again.
The Camps.

Posted by: Good Leftists Everywhere at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (nELVU)

175 Cold weather dental training? That's useful in two places, that I've been to. You really don't want to goto either.

Posted by: Jean at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (R4WsQ)

176 No that was Mussollini, Hitler was the one who made the goose step famous Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (9Bj8R)

Why do totalitarian regimes always goose step? It's kind of a red flag.

"So, do we trust this new leader in XYZ Nation?"

"Depends. When the army marches, do they bend the knees or goose step?"

"Goose step."

"Then no. Instant tyranny detector, just add dictator."

it's as much a dead giveaway as having a Grand Vizier.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (4df7R)

177 Question:

How the fuck did Dorner make it
past the review process and become a police officer? The psych and
personality reviews should have caught this guy. This is really fucking
scary to think that there are a lot more other Dorners out there with a
badge and gun, ready to kill someone because they were "slighted".


Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:41 PM (GQ8sn)


How did Nidal Hasan become a major in the US Army? PC bullshit which is going to get us all killed

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (1Jaio)

178 You know who's the real villain here? Nixon's Southern strategy.

Posted by: Jonathan Chait, former New Republic expert on race at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (60GaT)

179 Tell'em you don't need it; you already know how to buy a bus ticket to Miami. That's all the cold weather training you'll ever need.
Posted by: @PurpAv at February 11, 2013 04:08 PM (BH8oG)

I need it for the next time the power goes out for a week in cold weather in NJ. G-D damn PSE&G

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (9Bj8R)

180 156 Jean,

Charles Johnson is Dorner?

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 04:10 PM (LRFds)

181 This could turn into the movie "Vanishing Point"

DJ SuperSoul giving Dorner directions over the radio, Twitter, FaceBook ...

If I were the LAPD, I'd keep a look out for a 1970 Dodge Charger. Maybe shoot at 'em just to see the driver's reaction.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 04:10 PM (RuUvx)

182 How did Nidal Hasan become a major in the US Army? PC bullshit which is going to get us all killed


Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (1Jaio

THIS

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 04:10 PM (UOM48)

183 My prediction:

Chris Dorner Halloween masks this October.

***

And I hope anyone wearing one gets taken out by a drone

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 11, 2013 04:10 PM (piMMO)

184 @77 *fist bump foradding tothe reference* :-)

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at February 11, 2013 04:10 PM (jg/AU)

185 >>>Reportedly he managed to break the axle of the truck they found burned up

Had not heard that. That makes it less likely that he was dumping his truck there as a distraction. If he was trying to head to a remote cabin (his family had property nearby, so he would be somewhat familiar with the area), and got stuck off road, my money now is that he ended up like Jack Nicholson at the end of The Shining.

Posted by: wooga at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (SDLxN)

186 Also, this guy's a Navy reservist - shouldn't the police be looking for him at SeaWorld?

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (RuUvx)

187 Coming soon...Entertainment reporter Chris Dorner!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (BuSM8)

188 O/T Uncle Ted Nugent will attend TFG's SOTU Address.

Hilarity to ensue.


***

Uncle Ted loves the country and will pay due respect to the office and the occasion.

dang it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (piMMO)

189 You know how I love the bad boys.

Posted by: Don Lemon at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (wAQA5)

190 The suspect formerly known as Chris Dorner announced via a spokesman that he has converted to Islam.



Shafeeq Hashemi, as Mr. Dorner now calls himself, has been offered a
reality show on Al-Jazeera USA and an associate professorship at
Central University in Qatar.



CAIR is concerned that Mr. Hashemi will face Islamophobic
persecution and has expressed its desire that Mr. Hashemi be given
immunity and allowed to travel as Allah directs him.

_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 03:46 PM (RuUvx)



If that were true Barry would order drone strikes on anyone trying to track him down

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (1Jaio)

191 BREAKING...

LAPD worried Dorner knows how to operate hot balloon.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (BuSM8)

192 Uncle Ted loves the country and will pay due respect to the office and the occasion. dang it.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (piMMO)


During the speech, sure.

Afterwards?

Popcorn.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (4df7R)

193 My prediction:



Chris Dorner Halloween masks this October.



***



And I hope anyone wearing one gets taken out by a drone



If the Dorner Fanbois were smart, they would start making those masks NOW to really confuse the shit out of the LAPD. Hundreds of Chris Dorner sightings all over the county. That would cause a massive disruption to their manhunt.

Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (GQ8sn)

194 What if I were to write a manifesto that explains why it makes perfect sense that Don Lemon Must Die. How many 'followers' would I get?

This post totally tongue in cheek, of course.

Posted by: Jones in CO at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (8sCoq)

195 it's a trap

Posted by: Justice Alito to Ted Nugent at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (60GaT)

196 ......my money now is that he ended up like Jack Nicholson at the end of The Shining.

------

If.... by that you mean..... well compensated and critically acclaimed..... yes.

Posted by: Don Lemmon at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (nELVU)

197 How did Nidal Hasan become a major in the US Army? PC bullshit which is going to get us all killed


Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (1Jaio

If your a physician in the US Military and you can breath, you make 0-4 ( Major ) PDQ. The real question is was he passed over for 0-5 and why?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 04:12 PM (9Bj8R)

198 This guy Dorner can make the trains run on time

Posted by: Don Lemmon at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (0SXI6)

199 186Also, this guy's a Navy reservist - shouldn't the police be looking for him at SeaWorld?Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (RuUvx) Don't give them any ideas. I don't to read about Shamu getting 150 bullets by mistake.....

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (OlN4e)

200 If he took the northern route out of Big Bear he could be heading towards Vegas. Coming down the south or west end seems risky, you are walking right into the Inland Empire with lots of people around. If he heads north there are less people, and the weather in the desert is pretty good this time of year. If he gets to say Joshua Tree he could probably steal a bunch of camping equipment or commandeer a ride out of the state, in multiple directions

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (NzBQO)

201 152 So I guess not all background checks work?

Great point!

If the LAPD's screening process can't keep a potentiallycrazed killer out of their ranks...how can these 'universal background checks' prevent anything?

Posted by: wheatie at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (w27/Q)

202 my money now is that he ended up like Jack Nicholson at the end of The Shining.

Immortalized in a photo of 1920's frivolity?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (4df7R)

203 Afterwards?

Popcorn.


***

Oh, yes!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 11, 2013 04:14 PM (piMMO)

204 FLASH:

Dorner may be expert in using railroad handcars

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 11, 2013 04:14 PM (BuSM8)

205 Also, this guy's a Navy reservist - shouldn't the police be looking for him at SeaWorld?
Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (RuUvx)


----------------------------------------


Hmmmm. Maybe they need to take a second look at that new dolphin they just brought in.

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2013 04:14 PM (drE9i)

206 what happens when the cops shoot the wrong black guy?
I denounce myself.

Posted by: mallfly at February 11, 2013 04:15 PM (bJm7W)

207 "Just be careful because this guy is a police officer and he will probably think that he can get away with anything. ... If you value your sanity, stay away from this guy."


And that right there, explains in a nutshell, the 10% or more shitty cops that make the rest of our boys in blue suspect.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 11, 2013 04:15 PM (l86i3)

208 177
Question:

How the fuck did Dorner make it

past the review process and become a police officer?




Same way I made it into Harvard: it's called Affirmative Action.


Have you seen my grades?

Of course you haven't.

Posted by: Barry Oblablah at February 11, 2013 04:15 PM (ntNJz)

209 Don't give them any ideas. I don't to read about Shamu getting 150 bullets by mistake.....
Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (OlN4e)



It's a fair concern. Have you seen the pictures of this guy? Shamu would just about fit the description, although as a killer whale he's naturally less puffy than the MSNBCerial Killer.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:15 PM (4df7R)

210 NDH, he is going to step all over Rubio's polished little response.

Posted by: Jean at February 11, 2013 04:16 PM (R4WsQ)

211 If the LAPD's screening process can't keep a
potentiallycrazed killer out of their ranks...how can these 'universal
background checks' prevent anything?



Posted by: wheatie at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (w27/Q)

Recall the LAPD's reaction to Dorner by shooting innocents in trucks.Think these guys can confiscate millions of firearms at the behest of the government?I'm betting no.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 11, 2013 04:16 PM (BuSM8)

212 Reportedly he managed to break the axle of the truck they found burned up>>

He should have picked the Toyota.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 11, 2013 04:16 PM (81UWZ)

213 I read in our paper that Dorner learned to fly while in the Navy. He could easily steal a plane and be anywhere.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2013 04:16 PM (UOM48)

214 Of course, now that this fucker has murdered and is on the loose, LAPD is "investigating" his firing.

What are they gonna do.....Hire him back and give him a fruit basket with a big "We're SORRY!" banner attached?

Posted by: © Sponge at February 11, 2013 04:16 PM (xmcEQ)

215 206
what happens when the cops shoot the wrong black guy?



Hey!

Deys always shoots da wrong black guy!

Posted by: Al Not-So-Sharpton's Blueberry Pie at February 11, 2013 04:17 PM (ntNJz)

216
No that was Mussollini, Hitler was the one who made the goose step famous Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 11, 2013 03:50 PM (9Bj8R)

Why do totalitarian regimes always goose step? It's kind of a red flag.

"So, do we trust this new leader in XYZ Nation?"

"Depends. When the army marches, do they bend the knees or goose step?"

"Goose step."

"Then no. Instant tyranny detector, just add dictator."

it's as much a dead giveaway as having a Grand Vizier.Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:09 PM (4df7R)


Supposedly the goose step march is more impressive. You see the legs all simultaneously strut forward. And totalitarians are all about show and image, not effectiveness. Even though their soldiers actually look like a bunch of broadway show dancers and rockettes.

Posted by: rd at February 11, 2013 04:17 PM (zLp5I)

217 I agree with thunderb. This dude is laying in a ravine somewhere with a bullet in his head. Someone should tell the drone operators that the heat signature is going fast...

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 11, 2013 04:18 PM (f9c2L)

218 Dorner may be expert in using railroad handcars
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 11, 2013 04:14 PM (BuSM


Well hell, at least Cali could use that as an excuse not to build that damned stupid high speed rail project. "If we build it, Chris Dorner may use it!"

Cue images of Amtrak trains jack knifed off the tracks, riddled with bullet holes, with explanatory chyron that reads, "LAPD assaults Antrak train after report of Dorner sighting; further investigation reveals sighting was of a baked potato."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:18 PM (4df7R)

219 Cue images of Amtrak trains jack knifed off the tracks, riddled with bullet holes, with explanatory chyron that reads, "LAPD assaults Antrak train after report of Dorner sighting; further investigation reveals sighting was of a baked potato."
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 11, 2013 04:18 PM (4df7R)

Thats about right.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 11, 2013 04:19 PM (l86i3)

220 213
I read in our paper that Dorner learned to fly while in the Navy. He could easily steal a plane and be anywhere.



Thank God we tightened up air travel since 9/11

/

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 04:19 PM (ntNJz)

221 Supposedly the goose step march is more impressive. You see the legs all simultaneously strut forward. And totalitarians are all about show and image, not effectiveness. Even though their soldiers actually look like a bunch of broadway show dancers and rockettes.
Posted by: rd at February 11, 2013 04:17 PM (zLp5I)


----------------------------------------------


Never underestimate the goose step. The German military was pretty damn good.

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2013 04:19 PM (drE9i)

222
Supposedly the goose step march is more impressive. You see the legs all simultaneously strut forward. And totalitarians are all about show and image, not effectiveness. Even though their soldiers actually look like a bunch of broadway show dancers and rockettes.

Heh, given what we've seen of Taliban goatfuckers training, I can imagine what Iran's parades look like. The only things missing would be unicycles and orange wigs.

And seltzer bottles.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 11, 2013 04:20 PM (+z4pE)

223 Asking her to act more like a white woman could mean something other than him hating himself for being black. We saw the same "logic" used against RGIII.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at February 11, 2013 04:20 PM (uhftQ)

224 Coming down the south or west end seems risky, you are walking right into the Inland Empire with lots of people around. If he heads north there are less people, and the weather in the desert is pretty good this time of year. If he gets to say Joshua Tree he could probably steal a bunch of camping equipment or commandeer a ride out of the state, in multiple directions
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 11, 2013 04:13 PM (NzBQO)

If he is familiar with the area and got another 4x4- mining roads/old roads out of SB wilderness area leads into the back parts of Lucerne Valley, Apple Valley, and barstow- take that to route 66 and he could hang out in any of those abandoned areas, also a back route into Mojave National Preserve. the 40/66 area is desolate.

Posted by: CAC at February 11, 2013 04:20 PM (twQE8)

225 Never underestimate the goose step. The German military was pretty damn good.Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2013 04:19 PM (drE9i) Well if the goose step makes for good soldiers, I guess the Italians were doing the chicken Cha cha.....

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2013 04:21 PM (OlN4e)

226 Of course, now that this fucker has murdered and is on the loose, LAPD is "investigating" his firing.What are they gonna do.....Hire him back and give him a fruit basket with a big "We're SORRY!" banner attached?
Posted by: © Sponge at February 11, 2013 04:16 PM (xmcEQ)

Anyway you look at it LAPD looks like shit on this thing right now.

Posted by: The Jackhole at February 11, 2013 04:21 PM (nTgAI)

227 He wouldn't like girls anyway after I teach him the Lemon Drop.

Posted by: Don Lemon at February 11, 2013 04:22 PM (wAQA5)

228 221 Never underestimate the goose step. The German military was pretty damn good.




Waffen SS kill ratio to Russians:

14:1

World's first combat assault rifles:

The Nazi's MP 43, MP 44, and StG 44

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 04:22 PM (ntNJz)

229 I feel sorry for him because he ended up like this because of Bush's lies. We must help him and I am starting with a $5 donation to the government to help people like this... Lets get behind Presdent Obama and do something about this traderjy

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, Vt at February 11, 2013 04:22 PM (3lMGK)

230

Also, this guy's a Navy reservist - shouldn't the police be looking for him at SeaWorld?

Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 11, 2013 04:11 PM (RuUvx)









Check the dolphin pen. Rape is a gateway crime, and I wouldn't trust those fishy smiles for a second.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 11, 2013 04:22 PM (TIIx5)

231
Anyway you look at it LAPD looks like shit on this thing right now. Posted by: The Jackhole at February 11, 2013 04:21 PM (nTgAI)

It is not just appearances. It is real world performance.

Posted by: rd at February 11, 2013 04:23 PM (zLp5I)

232 228 Duh,

eh....

M1/2/3 Carbine says "hello"

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 04:23 PM (LRFds)

233 Breaking News: LAPD accidently shoots L.L. Cool J.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at February 11, 2013 04:24 PM (uhftQ)

234
233Breaking News: LAPD accidently shoots L.L. Cool J.




Were they shooting at him?

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2013 04:25 PM (OlN4e)

235 What they ought to do is back the fuck off. Let him start moving then then they can catch him. They are either overpersuing or he is already dead. Either way the only people outside the ones he specifically threatened that have died are the ones the supposedly good guys shot. Gaurd those that need guarding.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 11, 2013 04:25 PM (l86i3)

236 If the Dorner Fanbois were smart, they would start making those masks NOW to really confuse the shit out of the LAPD.

***

I'm not sure trying to look more like Dorner in LA right now is a wise move.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 04:26 PM (XUKZU)

237 He was in BAHRAIN and needed "reintegration" training? From what, cold fries at the base Burger King? What a pussy. Go be a cop in Indio if LA is too much for you, fatty.

Posted by: UGAdawg at February 11, 2013 04:26 PM (vC6Bj)

238 Were they shooting at him?
Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2013 04:25 PM (OlN4e)

Unfortunatly he stood behind them.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 11, 2013 04:26 PM (l86i3)

239 I'm not sure trying to look more like Dorner in LA right now is a wise move.
Posted by: WalrusRex
***

SHHHHHHHHH! (That's the idea)

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at February 11, 2013 04:26 PM (uhftQ)

240 I'm not sure trying to look more like Dorner in LA right now is a wise move.


Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 04:26 PM (XUKZU)

Yea, but we're talking about Dorner fanbois here. Expendable.

Posted by: KG at February 11, 2013 04:27 PM (p7BzH)

241 Never underestimate the goose step. The German military was pretty damn good.

***

In this way, the WWII German army resembles our current army. The problem is at the top.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 11, 2013 04:28 PM (XUKZU)

242 I'm not sure trying to look more like Dorner in LA right now is a wise move.>>

You might have to jump into the path of one of their bullets to get hit but the law suit payout would be huge.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 11, 2013 04:28 PM (81UWZ)

243 Yea, but we're talking about Dorner fanbois here. Expendable.


Posted by: KG at February 11, 2013 04:27 PM (p7BzH)





You not expendable, Hambo.

Posted by: Hawt Green-Eyed Asian Chick at February 11, 2013 04:29 PM (TIIx5)

244 It could be that Dorner (or the Piers Morgan Serial Killer) found himself a hole to hide in so that they wouldn't find his body for years then offed himself. Just to keep the cops stirred up for months and months.

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2013 04:29 PM (OlN4e)

245 Posted by: Hawt Green-Eyed Asian Chick at February 11, 2013 04:29 PM (TIIx5)

Ha, that's pretty funny, my fiancee is green eyed, but not Asian...

Posted by: KG at February 11, 2013 04:32 PM (p7BzH)

246 Speaking of puffiness, can you imagine of the MSNBSerial Killer and Ashley Judd had a baby?

Posted by: kathysaysso at February 11, 2013 04:32 PM (6H6o8)

247 How did he get on the LAPD? Well he was in the military which is a big factor they consider which allows them , at least justify to themselves, not to have to make background checks that normally would be made on some non military applicant. Also he was hired prior to a military deployment of 13 months.

As a rookie, he had already made other formal complaints about other veteran officers. He did not make the complaint in question until oneday after being given a unsatisfactory rating in three categories by the accused training officer. This was two weeks after the alleged abuseby the training officer.

This guy has the classice narcissistic , paranoidpersonality disorder.

Posted by: polynikes at February 11, 2013 04:33 PM (m2CN7)

248 I know Hezbollah and Hamas's "troops" do use the goosestep and Nazi salute in a showing of solidarity with Hitler's ideas. Iran very well might, also.

222

Supposedly the goose step march is more impressive. You see the
legs all simultaneously strut forward. And totalitarians are all about
show and image, not effectiveness. Even though their soldiers actually
look like a bunch of broadway show dancers and rockettes.

Heh,
given what we've seen of Taliban goatfuckers training, I can imagine
what Iran's parades look like. The only things missing would be
unicycles and orange wigs.

And seltzer bottles.


Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 11, 2013 04:20 PM (+z4pE)

Posted by: Pyrocles at February 11, 2013 04:36 PM (cv5Iw)

249 They have admitted that they are using Customs' drones. How much you want to bet they have a satellite over the area? This is the kind of shit that could cover a shit lot of area. The problem I see is analyzing the data in time to act on it.

Nothing would suit The One better than to be able to say he found Dohron.


WTF am I saying, he's not going to help them track down a Black guy.

Never mind.

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at February 11, 2013 04:37 PM (wR+pz)

250 228 eh....



M1/2/3 Carbine says "hello"



Old fashioned and outclassed relics.




Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 04:42 PM (ntNJz)

251 250 Duh,

er "no"...

but whatever....

I'll stick with Jim Cirillo's recommendation.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 04:43 PM (LRFds)

252 Jeezzz how does CNN keep getting all the smart anchors

Posted by: twinsdad at February 11, 2013 04:44 PM (u2FXC)

253 Dorner's LAPD training officer reports that he told her he had
experienced behavioral and mental changes after leaving the Navy, that
his family had remarked on it, and that he intended to "get help".
--

Note the word "training" officer. How did this guy pass training and stay on the LAPD? Even if there was political/racial pressure to admit him, this should have immediately been cause to bounce him. This is worse than affirmative action run amuck. Giving a badge and a gun to someone who they KNOW is unstable is, is, is... I don't even have a word.

Posted by: Mayday at February 11, 2013 04:46 PM (F3s39)

254 Anybody here notice that in the Breitbart story linked above, they talk about a million-dollar "ransom" for information leading to Dorner's capture? I can see "reward" or "bounty" being used, but "ransom" is definitely the wrong choice of word.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 11, 2013 04:47 PM (673KB)

255 251


er "no"...

but whatever....


Those were sloppy short ranged sub-machine guns. The Germans already had those.

The Stg 43 was a modern assault rifle.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 04:47 PM (ntNJz)

256 32 How the fuck did Dorner make it past the review
process and become a police officer?



Same way that New Haven CT hires firemen, Obama nominates SCJs, and that we elect POtuSes.

Posted by: BuddyPC at February 11, 2013 04:53 PM (jfUIE)

257 Maybe he had the major hassan diversity exception

Posted by: joeindc44 at February 11, 2013 04:53 PM (nUqf+)

258 I'm not sure trying to look more like Dorner in LA right now is a wise move.>
--

I dunno. The LAPD has shot up a woman, Asian, and white guy. Seems like black males are somehow safe from them. I wouldn't want to be a truck owner though.

Posted by: Mayday at February 11, 2013 05:09 PM (F3s39)

259 If he took the northern route out of Big Bear he could be heading towards Vegas.
Sorry, man, I'm not allowed by state law to take modern weapons. Maybe try the Hardcore Pawn guys in Detroit.

Posted by: rick harrison at February 11, 2013 05:10 PM (ORGYc)

260 255 Duh,

I've never seen a submachine gun in .357 magnum in that era. It meets the mission profile of an assault rifle in effective range and penetration of the 7.92 33 Kurz. This is another example of people in love with long black leather trench coats and overengineered shit never produced in numbers needed to change the course of the war.

I'm pretty sure the Nazis has Illudium Q36 space modulators too....

How'd D Day turn out?

Scoreboard

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 05:10 PM (M/zMP)

261 I think he's probably dead. I don't think he's being hidden by volunteers, because they'd be likely to talk about it. I really hope he isn't holed up somewhere holding innocent people hostage.

Posted by: Mayday at February 11, 2013 05:13 PM (F3s39)

262 This guy has the classic narcissistic , paranoid personality disorder.

If I had a son, he'd look like me.

Posted by: president o'bumbles at February 11, 2013 05:16 PM (ORGYc)

263 NDH, he is going to step all over Rubio's polished little response.


***

OOOh! oOh! OH!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 11, 2013 05:24 PM (piMMO)

264
260
255 Duh,



I've never seen a submachine gun in .357 magnum in that era. It
meets the mission profile of an assault rifle in effective range and
penetration of the 7.92 33 Kurz. This is another example of people in
love with long black leather trench coats and overengineered shit never
produced in numbers needed to change the course of the war.



I'm pretty sure the Nazis has Illudium Q36 space modulators too....



How'd D Day turn out?



Scoreboard


Listen and learn dumbass:



An assault rifle is a selective fire (selective between automatic, semi-automatic, and burst fire) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It should be distinguished from the U.S. legal term assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in terms of using an intermediate cartridge power that is between light machine guns firing full power cartridges, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a lower powered pistol cartridge
rather than a rifle cartridge. Fully automatic fire refers to an
ability for a rifle to fire continuously until the magazine is empty and
no rounds remain; "burst-capable" fire refers to an ability of a rifle
to fire a small yet fixed multiple number of rounds with but one press
of the trigger; in contrast, semi-automatic refers to an ability to fire
one round per press of a trigger. The presence of selective fire modes
on assault rifles permits more efficient use of rounds to be fired for
specific needs, versus having a single mode of operation, such as fully
automatic, thereby conserving ammunition while maximizing on-target
accuracy and effectiveness.

Examples of assault rifles include the StG 44, AK-47,[2] M16 rifle, QBZ-95, INSAS, FAMAS, Heckler Koch G36, and Enfield SA80.


The majority of "German" troops on the shores during D-Day were foreign conscripts. The Allies had an overwhelming advantage in naval and air power and Hitler delayed the use of his Waffen SS armored units.
Oh and- you're an idiot.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi's crotchless boxers at February 11, 2013 05:29 PM (z3Lez)

265 StG 44

"To its credit, it was the first successful weapon of its class, and the
concept had a major impact on modern infantry small arms development. By
all accounts, the StG 44 fulfilled its role admirably, particularly on
the Eastern Front,
offering a greatly increased volume of fire compared to standard
infantry rifles. In the end, it came too late to have a significant
effect on the outcome of the war"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi's crotchless boxers at February 11, 2013 05:32 PM (z3Lez)

266 Yeah, but he's not crazy crazy.

Posted by: Whoppie Goldberg at February 11, 2013 05:41 PM (T4tCt)

267 Wow wikipedia and I'm an idiot I'm pretty sure I'm aware of what an assault rifle is thanks! Thisis sort of the man in the high tower, wankfest, bullshit that's ben spread around for 60 years. The Germans could fly were werewolves and can shoot laser beams from heir shark eyes. The .30 carbine has better one stop potential than hardball .45. The M2 carbine mets every criteria the STG 43 or 44 do. Putthe bong down and take the arm band off.

Nazi fans arguments always meet themselves coming around corners the German supermen beat Ivan elenty to one....derp when they start losing they're not German anymore derp

Like I said the Airborne Infantry used the Carbine quite ably stud.

Long Long trench coats and hot blitzmadels yo

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 05:43 PM (M/zMP)

268 A guy I work with (black dude) called him a "whistleblower" last night. I called him a serial killer sociopath,so fuck him. Needless to say we disagreed. What is it with the black community? This should be a no brainer. Instead its blame everybody and everything else except the actual asshole. This particular problem crosses racial and genders line, I know that. It still chafes me.

Posted by: puddleglum at February 11, 2013 05:46 PM (g/gkH)

269 One of the design inspirations for the MP43 was the M1 carbine- the detachable box mag and low recoil made it very popular with German troops who had picked them up in North Africa or Italy.
Damned thing even had a Waffenamt stock number for substitute issues- read a good article on it a few years back. Phil Schrier would know.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at February 11, 2013 05:52 PM (jCQ+I)

270 Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 05:43 PM (M/zMP)


The Allies had only one major advantage over the Nazis:

Numbers.

As far as weaponry, and training:

Advantage Germany.


Dumbass

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi's crotchless boxers at February 11, 2013 05:57 PM (z3Lez)

271 Dave in NC,

Be sure to have Det. Munch tie the whole thing to Cheney.

Posted by: Ktgreat at February 11, 2013 05:58 PM (yV4dN)

272 Oh and, the Allied tanks sucked ass as well.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi's crotchless boxers at February 11, 2013 05:59 PM (z3Lez)

273 Does California have $1million to offer for anything?

Posted by: Ktgreat at February 11, 2013 06:00 PM (yV4dN)

274 STG-44 number produced 425,977 production run Sep '43

Max eff rng auto 300m semi-auto 600m

M1 Carbine number produced for WW2 6 million Production run started Oct 41 weapon was initially designed for select fire but streamlining of production for deployment necessitated removal of the feature.

I would not make the argument that the carbine is a superior weapon one on one to the STG or the Ak, I would make the argument that it filled the mission profile window of the class of weapon prior to the German weapons and in far greater numbers which impacts you know "war winning."

The STG was "so superior" as a weapon that no western power adopted the concept, not even the British EM-1 attempted to replicate the "assault rifle" window of capability, and the united states skipped the .30 intermediate power class of AR to go right to the .223 class light assault rifle mission profile....

if this is "dumb" I'm dying to know why Ivan did the same.



Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:01 PM (LRFds)

275 Chris Dorner?

Drone Strike!

Posted by: Obamao at February 11, 2013 06:03 PM (JtyGg)

276 NaziFan boy,

The allies had better aviation when taken as a curve of numbers to ability, the allies had better artillery and doctrine, the allies had better logistics, the allies had better souls...oh and nukes.....

and carrier aviation....and the ability to do large scale amphib assault.

Yeah the nazis were best at everything but winning against non sucker punched opfors....

go hug a Stalag.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:03 PM (LRFds)

277 I don't think he was ready to lose control of his broken-axeled truck on the access road. Plan C? Freeze to death.

Posted by: SarahW is on to your misogyny and stuff at February 11, 2013 06:03 PM (LYwCh)

278 268 puddleglum,

Yeah pretty funny I don't recall whistleblowing involving multiple homicides.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:04 PM (LRFds)

279 Anybody seen any evidence on this Dorner guy yet?


Other than he left a burned out pick-up truck on the side of the road.

Posted by: Obamao at February 11, 2013 06:07 PM (JtyGg)

280 from a strategic PoV the American tank was a better design than the German wunderkrieg tanks....

not fun to be a soldier in, I would have been "OMG" but they were easier to produce and adequate...

how'd Germany do against the T-34 kameraden?

Ja that's right....

again "scoreboard"

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:08 PM (LRFds)

281 I'd take the M26 vs the Wunderkrieg though and when introduced the M4 was better than the German tanks it faced.

I wrote a series of posts on the near scandal of AGF deciding the M6 was unnecessary, but accept that the argument was a sound logistical one.

Again The Germans produced by allied standards prototype
level production of some buck rogers style kit....

and again "scoreboard"

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:16 PM (LRFds)

282 LAPD = cops in Idiocracy; remember when they shot down the passenger plane by accident?

Posted by: A Guy Can Dream, Can't He? at February 11, 2013 06:20 PM (AVfT8)

283 At any rate I've had the argument on the Myth of the Wunderkrieg semi-professionally and volunteered at the APG Ordnance museum....

I'm content with my scholarship on the subject.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:24 PM (LRFds)

284 89 Anyone notice Dorner looks like a heavier LL Cool J?
Posted by: EC at February 11, 2013 03:57 PM (GQ8sn)

He also looks a lot like a close friend of mine. Friend lives in Riverside, CA and is a USAF reservist. He says that one of the cops at the Air Force base he's stationed at almost drew down on him the other day. Afterward the same cop advised him to stay home for a while. So did my friend's wife.

Posted by: baldilocks on iPad at February 11, 2013 06:44 PM (Su0W2)

285 284 Baldilocks,

and that must suck as bad as when moose had people that looked like me drawn on and searched during the DC smipers...

it blows my mind that LAPD has looser RoE than US Forces downrange in this war.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:46 PM (LRFds)

286 The STG was "so superior" as a weapon that no western power adopted the
concept, not even the British EM-1 attempted to replicate the "assault
rifle" window of capability, and the united states skipped the .30
intermediate power class of AR to go right to the .223 class light
assault rifle mission profile....

if this is "dumb" I'm dying to know why Ivan did the same.


Ahem:

Everyone has doubtless become familiar with the tired propaganda claim that ‘the AK-47 was a revolutionary concept developed solely by Russian genius, owing nothing whatever to captured German weapons.’ I was gradually drawn in to a research project when I read a Popular Mechanics
(Dec 2010) article on the AK-47. It marked the first breach in the
defences, by actually giving some meagre credit to the German StG44. I
then set out to gather the full due credit by delving as deeply as the
web allowed. I believe I’ve achieved about 90-95%.


I thought I’d share my findings in a concise, point-by-point version.
In each category, I hope to show how the Soviet concept was preceded by a
German one.

Cartridge

In 1943 the USSR made the short M43 (7.62 x 39 mm) as a basis for a new weapon. / In the mid-1930s, the Germans began developing smaller rounds. In 1938, Polte Werke developed a 7.92 x33 mm round the Heereswaffenamt (Armaments Ministry) accepted and designated the 7.92 mm PP Kurz.

Concept

The idea of combining the features of a submachinegun and a bolt-action
rifle was German. It came about from the realisation that modern
mobile combat tended to present targets at ranges nearer than 300m, for
which the standard rifle and its round were over-powered. This hybrid
concept naturally lent itself to the incorporation of the now-ubiquitous
fire selector switch. This feature was first introduced by Hugo
Schmeisser, in 1924, as an upgrade to the MP18. / The idea to copy a clever, innovative design that decimated their soldiers was Russian.

Design Submission

In 1945 (or 46—sources differ), the USSR held a contest to design an
automatic assault rifle using the M43 round. In 1946 (or 47—sources
differ), designers led by Mikhail Kalashnikov submitted the AK-47. In
1949 it was adopted by the Soviet Army. / In 1939, the Heereswaffenamt issued a contract for competitive development of a Maschinenkarabiner (machine carbine, MKb), chambered for the new Kurz cartridge. Hugo Schmeisser headed the design team at Haenel that produced the prototype MKb 42 in 1942. A limited run of 8,000 units was then produced for field testing and issued to Ostfront troops. The Heereswaffenamt selected it for development over a Walther
candidate in 1943. After minor design modifications, the resulting
MP43 (later renamed MP44, then StG44) went into full production.

Receiver

Although the initial production run attempted to copy the German
stamped sheet metal receiver, this process could not be mastered, and
production was switched over to machining the receiver from a 4 lb block
of steel into the 1.5 lb finished component. The revised model, AKM,
which came on line in 1959, simplified production by re-introducing
stamped sheet-metal. / The Germans had incorporated this stamping concept—proven in previous weapons—into their StG44 design from the outset (1943).

Gas Piston

The gas system and layout of the Sturmgewehr 44 were copied. The
AK-47’s gas piston stroke is 50% longer than necessary, giving it the
capability to overcome fouling or lack of lubrication. / The StG44 gas drive utilises a long-stroke piston.

High Tolerance Concept

Kalashnikov claimed credit for developing the concept of high
tolerance, or loose fit, in which the gas piston and bolt carrier’s
parts fit loosely in the receiver, making the mechanism less susceptible
to jamming owing to carbon build-up, lack of lubrication, rust, dirt or
mud. But, in fact, Alexey Sudayev had previously incorporated this
principle into his AS-44. / According to C.J. Chivers in the Gun,
the AS-44 is a blatant knock-off of the StG44, so it can be surmised
that it featured this concept. However, the Germans definitely
incorporated this concept into their MG42 design from the outset, when
they decided to replace the MG34 specifically because its precision
engineered, low tolerance parts were too prone to jamming. And there is
no doubt whatever that captured MG42s were closely scrutinised,
nullifying any claim of Soviet invention in this regard.

Trigger

The trigger, double locking lugs and unlocking raceway were copied from the US M1 Garand.

Banana Magazine

The AK-47 borrowed this design from the AS-44. It more ergonomically fit the stubby short rounds, thereby reducing jamming. / Again, if the StG44 magazine was not copied directly, it’s copy, the AS-44 certainly was.

The Master Himself

Any lingering doubt ought to be quashed when I add one last little fact. Herr Schmeisser, who headed the design team at Haenel that produced the prototype MKb 42, and, after the Heereswaffenamt
selected it for development, its offspring, the StG44, was one of the
German scientists/engineers scooped up by the Soviets in the Operation
Paperclip sweep.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 06:49 PM (ntNJz)

287 280
from a strategic PoV the American tank was a better design than the German wunderkrieg tanks....

not fun to be a soldier in, I would have been "OMG" but they were easier to produce and adequate...

how'd Germany do against the T-34 kameraden?

Ja that's right....

again "scoreboard"

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:08 PM (LRFds)




Wrong.

The German Panther was more than a match for the T-34 and the Tiger I had no equals.

The American Sherman tank acquired the
nickname "Ronson" after the popular brand of cigarette lighter (whose
slogan was "Lights up the first time, every time!"). German troops
sometimes referred to them as "Tommycookers".

I personally know two men who were Sherman crewmen, the rule of thumb when encountering a German Tiger: Get the hell out of there, or abandon your tank.

You sir, are an idiot. Period.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 06:55 PM (ntNJz)

288 Yeah yeah yeah Duh...again here's the scoreboard on the M1 carbine round....

http://tinyurl.com/a694cd5

79-83% one shot drop in documented US use....

Like i allowed up above yeah the STG44 is better by a margin, I'll take 6 million versus 426,000 any day of the week.


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:58 PM (LRFds)

289 Also advise your friend not to disguise himself as two 100-pound Asian women, Baldilocks!

Posted by: andycanuck at February 11, 2013 06:59 PM (ORGYc)

290 287 Duh,

That's not how war works chief.....

most powerful weapon in the Sherman was the radio....

Let's try again....

I would not want to be the crewman but I would much rather have the Sherman production run versus the Panther run.

The Allies won WW2 through strategy, logistics, production, and doctrine.....

the germans definitely won the Holocaust phase of the competition though.

I freely grant that stud.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:00 PM (LRFds)

291 289 AndyCanuck,

or an Anglo guy if I read correctly....


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:01 PM (LRFds)

292 "Don is such a delicious bitch."


Posted by: Toure at February 11, 2013

SNORT!

Posted by: Torqued at February 11, 2013 07:02 PM (AKS75)

293 BTW, there's a new thread up, Sven.

Posted by: andycanuck at February 11, 2013 07:02 PM (ORGYc)

294 268 A guy I work with (black dude) called him a "whistleblower" last night. I called him a serial killer sociopath,so fuck him. Needless to say we disagreed. What is it with the black community? This should be a no brainer. Instead its blame everybody and everything else except the actual asshole. This particular problem crosses racial and genders line, I know that. It still chafes me.


A real distrust of cops is what it is with the black community. Every black man I know, even conservatives, even those who've never been in trouble, hates them. This hatred is born of history and experience. My experience with them has been mostly positive. Note the word 'mostly.'

I don't think the fact that he murdered Lawrence and Quan is even on the radar of most of those who think Dorner is a hero, much less the fact that Lawrence was black. Such is so when knees jerk.

Posted by: baldilocks on iPad at February 11, 2013 07:02 PM (Su0W2)

295 283
At any rate I've had the argument on the Myth of the Wunderkrieg
semi-professionally and volunteered at the APG Ordnance museum....

I'm content with my scholarship on the subject.


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 06:24 PM (LRFds)


Really?Then you should educate these experts:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Xf0H-WkX0

5000 StG 44's were airdropped to an entrapped German unit inside Russia, the isolated regiment then sliced it's way through the Russian army.But hey, no biggie.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:02 PM (ntNJz)

296 and the M26 was a better tank than the Panther....

Army ground Forces holding up production was a choice, a bad one but a choice....hell the M6 was a Tiger class tank we sat on....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:04 PM (LRFds)

297 290
287 Duh,

That's not how war works chief.....

most powerful weapon in the Sherman was the radio....

Let's try again....

I would not want to be the crewman but I would much rather have the Sherman production run versus the Panther run.

The Allies won WW2 through strategy, logistics, production, and doctrine.....

the germans definitely won the Holocaust phase of the competition though.

I freely grant that stud.


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:00 PM (LRFds)

Uhm yeah, the Allies had sheer superiority in numbers.
Duh.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:04 PM (ntNJz)

298 289 Also advise your friend not to disguise himself as two 100-pound Asian women, Baldilocks!
Posted by: andycanuck at February 11, 2013 06:59 PM (ORGYc)

Ha! And people wonder why cops have the rep that they do.

Posted by: baldilocks on iPad at February 11, 2013 07:05 PM (Su0W2)

299 295 Duh,

Yeah life ain't an acttion movie....how'd those 5,000 do in the battle of the Kremlin after the Germans took Moscow in the capture of Joseph Stalin?

Exactly.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:05 PM (LRFds)

300 297 Duh,

The Soviets and Western Allies both cleaned the Germans clocks routinely after '42-early '43....

"Duh"

Go hug the man in the high tower.....

maybe they still have their lampshades.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:06 PM (LRFds)

301 Wow 6,000 Panthers....

whew what a winner....

War is not an action movie, it is the mating of population, science, and production with military doctrine and national will.

The Allies were better at the big game and the germans won the science show "arguably."

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:07 PM (LRFds)

302 296
and the M26 was a better tank than the Panther....

Army ground
Forces holding up production was a choice, a bad one but a
choice....hell the M6 was a Tiger class tank we sat on....


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:04 PM (LRFds)

Now who's in fantasy land. The M26 could not handle the Tiger I nor the King Tiger. Oh and, since we're playing 'what if', the Germans had developed new more powerful engines for both Tigers (although too late) that would have more than kept the lead over any Allied Tank. And the 88 was the beast. Not to mention the even larger higher velocity tank guns that were being developed.
Oh and, the Panzerfaust ruled and it's descendants were the grandfathers to the modern RPG's.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:10 PM (ntNJz)

303 I do love how the myth of "death traps" kind of ignores Tank Destroyer doctrine or the politics of AGF versus Cav branch vs Infantry branch....

there's a lot more to the "problem" than 'derp the M4 sucked" derp'

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:10 PM (LRFds)

304 301
Wow 6,000 Panthers....

whew what a winner....

War is not an action movie, it is the mating of population, science, and production with military doctrine and national will.

The Allies were better at the big game and the germans won the science show "arguably."


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:07 PM (LRFds)

Thanks for agreeing with me.You wasted all that time for nothing.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:13 PM (ntNJz)

305 302 Duh,

There is no fantasy the M26 was a Kitty killer....

it was ready for a production run in '43 that it was not made is part of why the allies won....

I know this is probably hard for you to grasp given your tecnophilia with regards to field kit but standardization of production run and tooling carries a benefit in cost benefit ratio....

AGF and McNair accepted the argument that the lost production time for retooling was not worth the performance "gain".....

I happen to disagree of course I have the benefit of hindsight....

perhaps has the Oven lovers not tried to reinvent the wheel every 90 days they would have had production run gains....?

again "flush" I've read the Foreign Divion analysis at APG from ordnance branch during the war....

I've touched two panthers and talked to vets myself....had a Panther driver tell me he hated the superiority of the allied traverse and hated Shermans on the obliques.

War is not jousting, and the US' use of Time on Target ARTY and Tac Air trumps 'wunderkrieg"....

but again do go on.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:15 PM (LRFds)

306 303
I do love how the myth of "death traps" kind of ignores Tank Destroyer
doctrine or the politics of AGF versus Cav branch vs Infantry branch....

there's a lot more to the "problem" than 'derp the M4 sucked" derp'


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:10 PM (LRFds)

Myth?So those old boys who actually rode in those rolling powder kegs called Shermans were full of shit when they said they were widow makers?
Really?

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:15 PM (ntNJz)

307 Some gay scout leader will stumble over his body after the spring thaw. Think they have a badge for that?

Posted by: Torqued at February 11, 2013 07:17 PM (AKS75)

308 304 Duh,

no you ware pretending the WunderKriegs' toys were "that much better" and I'm sorry no in many cases they weren't...

take the ME-262 it had a worse Kill ratio than the 109....

now you can fall back on 'late war German pilots were shit" and hey "maybe"....

I'll just go with Yeager's "first time I ever saw a jet I shot it down..."

Had the war gone on another year the P-80 would have started showing up....I just don't think the 'science show" was worth the idiocy of the German grand strategic failures.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:17 PM (LRFds)

309 As far as him being a self-hating black person, not only knowing the names of MSNBC personalities but also giving shout-outs to them in his manifesto (Scarborough? Really?) was a bit of a hint.

Posted by: gasss at February 11, 2013 07:20 PM (MFuKa)

310 306 Duh,

They owned the Germans in '42-43....

and yeah "Ronson" is a myth that is greatly exaggerated. I would not enjoy being in a Sherman in a jousting match but as a general i would understand I had the better overall weapon system from a strategic PoV....

the Sherman was easier to maintain, more reliable, more fuel efficient, immensely easier to produce, so cheap to make for the US war effort it was damn near disposable....

yeah sucked for the crew helped the war effort.

The tank was not theorized to be a "tank killer as primary mission" vehicle anyway....

that was the M-10 Wolverine and Tank destroyer class of AFV....

again a flawed paradigm I agree, but what was responsible for the sloth in deploying the M-26 and not perfecting the m-6....

The US' doctrine and ARTY advantage offset the wunderkrieg.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:20 PM (LRFds)

311 308
304 Duh,

no you ware pretending the WunderKriegs' toys were "that much better" and I'm sorry no in many cases they weren't...

take the ME-262 it had a worse Kill ratio than the 109....

now you can fall back on 'late war German pilots were shit" and hey "maybe"....

I'll just go with Yeager's "first time I ever saw a jet I shot it down..."

Had
the war gone on another year the P-80 would have started showing
up....I just don't think the 'science show" was worth the idiocy of the
German grand strategic failures.


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:17 PM (LRFds)

Yeah, at late in the war the German pilots were shit. And I remember Yeager's story he shot it as it was landing.I also remember Normandy Episode of Tank Battles on the Military Channel that was bone chilling:

A Sherman is literally nose-to-nose with a Tiger, separated only by a
hedge.The Sherman survivor tells how they bounced several shells off
the turret front of the Tiger and then the Tiger split the Sherman's
turret in half with one shot. The consensus of the American tank crews was: get the hell out of there when the Tigers enter the field.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:24 PM (ntNJz)

312 and yeah "Ronson" is a myth that is greatly exaggerated. I would not
enjoy being in a Sherman in a jousting match but as a general i would
understand I had the better overall weapon system from a strategic
PoV....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:20 PM (LRFds)




Really?

So all these people are lying sacks of shit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVrbvKxE6VY

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:27 PM (ntNJz)

313 311 Duh,

No doubt and it would suck, of course the reality of war is that it is a team exercise and that there were MANY Shermans and T-34s moving in lightly defended space.

I am not arguing that the Sherman was technically superior head to head with a tiger I am arguing it was a more effective weapon system from a strategic PoV....

Planes land and take off, traffic deserts really happen, that's doctrine....

Death Traps makes it sound as though being in a Sherman was an instant death sentence but it wasn't and being a sherman crewman was more lethal than an early B-17 crewman.....

the fact is war sucks, and the only thing worse than winning a war is losing one....


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:29 PM (LRFds)

314 Uhm, the 'myth' of the Sherman as a Death Trap was actually fostered by a soldier who was there.

Here's his book:

Death Traps: The Survival of an American Armored Division in World War II

"In a down-to-earth style, Death Traps tells
the compelling story of one man’s assignment to the famous 3rd Armored
Division that spearheaded the American advance from Normandy into
Germany. Cooper served as an ordnance officer with the forward elements
and was responsible for coordinating the recovery and repair of damaged
American tanks. This was a dangerous job that often required him to
travel alone through enemy territory, and the author recalls his service
with pride, downplaying his role in the vast effort that kept the
American forces well equipped and supplied. . . . [Readers] will be left
with an indelible impression of the importance of the support troops
and how dependent combat forces were on them.”
—Library Journal

“[DEATH TRAPS] FILLS A CRITICAL GAP IN WW2 LITERATURE. . . . IT’S A TRULY UNIQUE AND VALUABLE WORK.”
—G.I. Journal









Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:30 PM (ntNJz)

315 312 Duh,

yeah I must have said 'lying sacks of shit" when I was not looking....

look there are LOTS of stories I own the book myself and you are misstating my position on it....

what the hell ever.

I'm an ex TOW gunner I understand a little about Cav work.

There are Shermans that killed Panthers, the APG JagTiger was chewed up by a M-26...the 26 got lucky and nailed the Jag right in the gun housing and crippled it....you can see where the gunner walked three shots right up it.

It would not be fun facing the reverse side of the M1 Abrams versus T-72 tactical equation which is what the Sherm vs kitty fight was....but if the T-72 was produced at 40 to 1 vs the Abrams....

yeah strategically its gonna win.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:33 PM (LRFds)

316 Uhm, the APG JagTiger is *not* a tank.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:37 PM (ntNJz)

317 314 Duh,

and again "duh".....

the Sherman did not lose the war, and read hunnicut or look at the miutes if the fucking AGF meetings on procurement.....

Yes it was a bad call but there it is....

http://socyberty.com/history/m4-sherman-was-it-really-that-bad/

The Sherman won the war in concert with US Arty...

*I* would have preferred perfecting the M6 or starting M-26 production in '43 but *I* was negative 29 in 43 so....

I didn't get to make that call....

If every German was like Wittman then the entire US Army died about 5 times over...

it's a charming memory but the numbers do not bear out the grim nature of the guys' experience being the norm.

Sorry.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:37 PM (LRFds)

318 Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:33 PM (LRFds)

I think you're truly full of shit.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:38 PM (ntNJz)

319 316 Duh,

Uh again you are aptly named "Duh' jag fucking tiger means it is a TD there genius....

it is also arguably a harder target armor wise than a german tank would have been....the jag could not bring the gun to bear against the M-26 in motion due to lack of traverse....

US doctrine held that the TDs were to be primary tank killer...

the point was the M-26 was quite capable of the exertion of lethality on a frontal all its own.

There's this myth that sprang to life in the late 50s early 60s as the cold war cranked up and the German general got busy rehabbing their reps that they won every squad action but lost the war...

sorry it didn't happen that way.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:40 PM (LRFds)

320 318 Duh,

and I'm pretty sure I don't have you reenactors' gear.

Do go on.

Read Hunnicuts write up on the Sherman and get back to me, I was educated in the real world capabilities and flaws of German AFVs by curators at the Ordnance museum.

I've seen them in the restoration contractor's workshop there at APG.....

Those men were brave and heroes, but that does not mean they speak for every action. For you to be correct in the absolute supremacy of the German kit beggars the imagination. yes a Panther against a Short 75mm Sherman is a mismatch, but again it is NOT the way war is fought....and a Firefly could chew up the Panther.

You are imputing things to my position that are not there, the "myth" such as it is is the idea that the author's experience is baseline for every unit.

They simply are not.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:44 PM (LRFds)

321 I'll ask you a question...were the majority of German tanks "diesels"?

The reason I'm asking is that this is part of the "myth" of "Ronson"


Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:46 PM (LRFds)

322 See there's this idea that the Ronson was made of magnesium and just ignirted at a greater rate than other period AFVs and it is not so...the main problem was being undergunned relative to its opponent...hell had the Shermans all been converted to easy 8s there'd likely be no "legend"...

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 07:51 PM (LRFds)

323 Uh again you are aptly named "Duh' jag fucking tiger means it is a TD there genius...

A Tank Destroyer is NOT a tank dumbass.

For starters, it does not have a turret, therefore it's gun is only as mobile as the vehicle itself.

And, oh yeah, the Shermans still sucked ass against the Mark 4's and they were outclassed by the Panthers and they were no match for the Tigers.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:53 PM (ntNJz)

324 Sherman is a mismatch, but again it is NOT the way war is fought....and a Firefly could chew up the Panther.

A Tiger with it's high velocity 88 could easily destroy the Firefly and it's British 17 pound anti- tank gun.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:57 PM (ntNJz)

325 A Firefly could ONLY kill a Panther at dangerously close range.

But hey, this is just Allied propaganda- right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-7cHchSB5Q

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 07:58 PM (ntNJz)

326 I have not had this argument since I had it at length with the gaming company i did some work for....

The "fatal flaws" of the sherman...

1) lack of wet ammo storage(this was corrected in post '43 models over time)

2) the inferior casting of the M4a1 and M4a2's armor and the overall lack of parity with German steel hardening of the glacis plate....

3) inferior ground pressure than the PZ V unless equipped with the HVSS

4) the 75mm main gun...of course by the fall of '44 50% of US tanks had the 76.2 main gun

5) High profile

The Sherman had some great points as well...

1) ease of PM

2) the nature of its tread meant the tank could go 3 times the average span of life of German tanks for superior strategic mobility

3) turret traverse

4) excellent transmission

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:04 PM (LRFds)

327 The M26 Pershing saw combat with only 2 US Armored Divisions, the 3rd and
the 9th. Distribution was made from the 599th Ordinance Battalion at
Aachen to the two divisions as follows:

3rd: 1 tank each to D, E, H, and I Companies of the 32nd Armored
Reginment and 1 tank each to companies D, E, H, and I of the 33rd
Armored Regiment.



9th: 5 tanks to A Company 14th Tank Battalion, 1 tank to A Company, 2 to
B Company and 2 to C Company of the 19th Armored Battalion.



3rd Armored crews finished training on the tank on 20 February 1945.

In one training demonstration Mr. "Slim" Price of the Abberdeen Proving
Ground demonstrated the accuracy of the Pershing's gun by shooting
German helments at 625 yards with single shots. This was part of the
crew's gunnery training.



The first loss came on 25 February to 3rd Armored when the Pershing
assigned to F Company 33rd Armd. Reg. was knocked out by a Tiger from
about 100 yards. The first hit penetrated the turret through the coax
MG port and killed both the gunner and loader. The second hit shot off
the muzzle brake setting of the 90mm round in the gun and destroying the
tube. The third hit glanced off the right side of the turret and
knocked off the cuploa hatch which was open. The surviving crew backed
away, getting the tank stuck in a pile of building debris, abandoning
the tank.

This tank was nicknamed Fireball . This tank was repaired, the 90mm being replaced from one on an M 36 returning to service on 4 March 45.

One tank of the 14th Armored Battalion A Company lost one Pershing when
it was struck by heavy artillery fire on 1 March 45. This tank was
subsequently repaired and returned to service on 7 March.

Those are the only two losses, well sort of anyway, of Pershings in the
ETO. So, one did get knocked out by a Tiger (which was subsequently
destroyed in the action by other tanks present) and one by artillery
fire.


See United States Tanks in World War II, George Forty and Pershing, a History of the Medium Tank T20 Series, Richard P. Hunnicutt

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:06 PM (ntNJz)

328 323 Duh,

"Jag" Tiger is inherently NOT a turreted AFV....

trying to snark like I made a mistake is funny....

no seriously it is "funny" the point was to highlight that the gun on the Pershing was quite adequate....

but do go on.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:06 PM (LRFds)

329
Gen. Lesley J McNair
had agreed to the production of the 76mm M4 Sherman, and he strongly
opposed the additional production of the T26E1. In the fall of 1943, he
wrote this letter to Devers, responding to the latter's advocacy of the
T26E1:

The M4 tank, particularly the M4A3, has been widely
hailed as the best tank on the battlefield today. There are indications
that the enemy concurs in this view. Apparently, the M4 is an ideal
combination of mobility, dependability, speed, protection, and
firepower. Other than this particular request—which represents the
British view—there has been no call from any theater for a 90mm tank
gun. There appears to be no fear on the part of our forces of the German
Mark VI (Tiger) tank... There can be no basis for the T26 tank other
than the conception of a tank versus tank duel—which is believed unsound
and unnecessary. Both British and American battle experience has
demonstrated that the antitank gun in suitable number and disposed
properly is the master of the tank. Any attempt to armor and gun tanks
so as to outmatch antitank guns is foredoomed to failure... There is no
indication that the 76mm antitank gun is inadequate against the German
Mark VI (Tiger) tank.


General Devers pressed on with his advocacy for the T26, going over
McNair's head to General George Marshall, and on 16 Dec 1943, Marshall
overruled McNair and authorized the production of 250 T26E1 tanks. Then,
in late December 1943, Devers was transferred to the Mediterranean,
where he eventually led the invasion of Southern France with the 6th
Army Group. In his absence, further attempts were made to derail the T26
program, but continued support from Generals Marshall and Eisenhower
kept the production order alive. Testing and production of the T26E1
proceeded slowly, however, and the T26E1 did not begin full production
until November 1944. These production models were designated as the
T26E3.
A single prototype of a T26 turret mounted on an M4A3 chassis was
built by Chrysler in the summer of 1944, but did not progress into
production

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:08 PM (ntNJz)

330 327 Duh,

and????

I did not say that the M-26 was the main sample of US AFV kit...but again since you seem to want to discount the role of numbers in factoring Strategic utility do go on.

By late war the Germans couldn't keep enough fuel in their kit to engage in strategic use of AFVs on a large scale...

this "again" shows what superior military minds the Germans were....

Ja we haf too little fuel mein fruend zo let's BUILD GIGANTE TNAKS AND AFVS!

Jawohl you are a genius Herrr Prosche....

maybe if they'd settled on a design and actually had a decent mobilization and not tried to take on RUSSIA and the UK and the UK etc etc etc

just a really fucking retarded grand Strategy nation....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:09 PM (LRFds)

331 329 Duh,

and the enemy who had not dealt with the PZ V as kit yet would have agreed....

the 76.2 Sherman was a very effective tank vis a vis the PZ IV and prior....

it held its own versus the Panther using US doctrine....

of course it took losses, but then again the Soviets have their own version of the "Oh my God the fucking diesel is on fire!' stroies too....

somehow their tank is not cast as playing the part of the Buddhist monk in Saigon.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:11 PM (LRFds)

332 ...but again since you seem to want to discount the role of numbers in factoring Strategic utility do go on.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:09 PM (LRFds)



This entire debate began with you challenging the "myth" of the superiority of German weaponry. A "myth" that was fostered by allied forces who had experienced this reality up-close and personal.

The counter argument on my side was that the main advantage of the allies was sheer numbers. And you apparently agree. You're just conveniently folding that admission into the convenient guise of tactics.

Geez.


Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:15 PM (ntNJz)

333 Had the Nazi's material production, fuel, and manpower capabilities not been severely limited (had all production been equal) then the superiority of German weaponry AND training would have been dominant. i.e. the Nazi Doctrine would have easily prevailed.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:18 PM (ntNJz)

334 325 Duh,

The Firefly could nail a Panther at any non frontal oblique or lateral side shot.

Again this is the whole myth of "Jousting"....

http://youtu.be/E-7cHchSB5Q

"fun"..."no"

able to be done?

Yup...

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:19 PM (LRFds)

335 333 Duh,

overengineered, not indexed to a realistic appraisal of Strategic material etc etc

The Germans would have been better served perfecting their PZ IV and other mid war equipment....

the STG 44 'won the war" along with the V1 and V2 etc etc etc

The US had superior doctrine, understood the best way to kill tanks was Arty and CAS and won the war that way on their front.....

the Soviets understood that the way to win the war was a massive kill zone and infantry use of anti-tank guns and won a defensive fight at kursk that way, and eventually used their own version of Arty/CAS/ strategic manuever....

like I said at the start from a TOW gunner perspective you use hammer and anvil and force the armored threat to try an unsupported rush through a kill pocket.

The Germans did not leave 40 Shermans for every 8 tanks on a battlefield...they were not all Wittman...

the number one killer of all tanks was mechanical breakdown in WW2.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:24 PM (LRFds)

336 334


The Firefly could nail a Panther at any non frontal oblique or lateral side shot.

Again this is the whole myth of "Jousting"....


Yeah, IF the Panther was slow on the uptake and didn't utilize the range advantage of it's 75 mm gun.

Good luck with that.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:24 PM (ntNJz)

337 The US had superior doctrine, understood the best way to kill tanks was
Arty and CAS and won the war that way on their front.....

the Soviets understood that the way to win the war was a massive kill
zone and infantry use of anti-tank guns and won a defensive fight at
kursk that way, and eventually used their own version of Arty/CAS/
strategic manuever....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:24 PM (LRFds)



Uhm the U.S. doctrine was substantiated by a clear advantage in supplies and manpower.

And the Soviets had a tremendous numbers and fuel advantage over the Germans as well.

All numbers being equal: The Germans win easily.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:28 PM (ntNJz)

338 336 Duh,

Thank God that the Panther was always on a plain....

Look the German i took on the tour was cancer ridden and he wanted to see a Panther while here for treatment...he laughed when a tourist was singing the praises and said...

"I was scared of the Sherman in any urban setting because of sightlines, my traverse was controlled by the engine in a way it moved at about a third the speed. It all depended on where you fought."

I dunno wasn't there, my limited experience was in being taught to want to see them blow up.

It all depends on where you meet, the Sherman was a long in the tooth design but it was adequate on a tactical level.....

yes as a crewman it was a dangerous fight especially with the 75mm BUT at the strategic level the math favored the US doctrine....

Germany *may* have done better had they waited until mid '40 to declare war..."maybe"

I just like my odds if I follow the Louisiana Exercises playbook.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:32 PM (LRFds)

339 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWKfpOtFtBc

German WW2 tank ace Michael Wittmann Tiger Tank battles at kursk

30 tank victories

That's a pretty damn good Doctrine Wittmann utilized.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:36 PM (ntNJz)

340 339 Duh,

Wittman was a very skilled individual, wars are not won by individual action.....

http://youtu.be/E-7cHchSB5Q

PZ VI v M4 and M26....

and again no one is arguing Wittman sucked but how'd he go down again?

http://youtu.be/GcL_Z4Gx11I

Why a Sherman Firefly....

~140 kills is impressive...but he was doomed.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:41 PM (LRFds)

341 http://youtu.be/GcL_Z4Gx11I

Why a Sherman Firefly....

~140 kills is impressive...but he was doomed.

Yeah, he was in a borrowed tank and he was "targeted by SUPERIOR British forces."

Golly, that's an impressive allied victory!

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:50 PM (ntNJz)

342 341 Duh,

It ain't the NFL...

these aren't boxers.

Even the closest thing in modern times to "chivalry' WW1 air combat was not jousting really.

Wittman was doomed, Tanks are a part of a much wider team effort and despite the early war strengths of the german forces, mostly a reflection of their superior NCOs and readiness I'd take US and UK arty any day of the week....

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 08:55 PM (LRFds)

343 Wittman's Tigers were caught in an ambush crossfire between the Northamptonshire Yeomanry and the Sherbrooke Fusiliers Regiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wittmann

This hardly establishes anything superior about the British other than sheer numbers.

Posted by: Duh at February 11, 2013 08:57 PM (ntNJz)

344 343 Duh,

It establishes that even mr 138 can't stop the tide...

The US and UK but most especially the US learned the correct lesson from WW1 that ARTY kills....

recall way up topside I pointed out the deadliest weapon from talking to the ww2 vets and sherman guys I've met was the radio....

why?

well

The financial climate of the 1920s and 1930s delayed the deployment of new artillery equipment. However, sufficient funding was available to allow enterprising Artillery and Ordnance officers to continue experimenting with new
gun designs and doctrine. As a result, when the Army began to expand, much of
the background work to modernize the artillery was already complete. Designs
had been completed and prototypes developed and tested for most of the guns and
howitzers that were to see service during the war (the opposite of the
situation in the new Armor Branch, where prohibitive cost had stymied design
work on armored vehicle prototypes and doctrinal experimentation during the
1920s and 1930s leading to the Christie suspension being sold to the Soviets).

As of 8 May 1945 there were a total of 238 separate field artillery battalions
in the ETO, including:



Four 75mm howitzer battalions:




The 463rd Parachute, 464th Parachute, 601st Pack, and 602nd Pack;


Thirty-six 105mm howitzer battalions:




The 18th, 25th, 70th, 74th, 76th, 115th, 130th, 162nd Puerto Rican, 170th,
193rd, 196th, 241st, 242nd, 250th, 252nd, 255th, 280th, 281st, 282nd, 283rd,
284th, 394th, 401st, 512th, 522nd Nisei, 569th, 580th, 583rd, 627th, 687th,
688th, 690th, 691st, 692nd, 693rd, and 802nd;


Sixteen 105mm Armored Field Artillery Battalions (105mm SP):




The 58th, 59th, 62nd, 65th, 69th, 83rd, 87th, 93rd, 253rd, 274th, 275th, 276th,
400th, 440th, 695th, and 696th;


Seventeen 4.5" gun battalions:




The 172nd, 176th, 198th, 211th, 215th, 259th, 770th, 771st, 772nd, 773rd, 774th,
775th, 777th Colored, 935th, 939th, 941st, and 959th;


Seventy-one 155mm howitzer battalions:




The 2nd, 17th, 36th, 81st, 141st, 177th, 179th, 182nd, 183rd, 186th, 187th,
188th, 191st, 202nd, 203rd, 204th, 208th, 209th, 228th, 254th, 257th, 333rd
Colored, 349th Colored, 350th Colored, 351st Colored, 521st, 550th, 665th,
666th, 667th, 670th, 671st, 672nd, 673rd, 686th Colored, 689th, 751st, 752nd,
753rd, 754th, 755th, 758th, 759th, 761st, 762nd, 763rd, 764th, 767th, 768th,
776th, 805th, 808th, 809th, 937th, 938th, 940th, 942nd, 943rd, 945th, 949th,
951st, 953rd, 955th, 957th, 961st, 963rd, 965th, 967th, 969th Colored, 974th,
and 975th;


Thirty 155mm gun battalions:




The 190th, 200th, 240th, 244th, 261st, 273rd, 514th, 515th, 516th, 528th, 540th,
541st, 546th, 547th, 548th, 549th, 559th, 561st, 634th, 635th, 731st, 733rd,
734th, 976th, 977th, 978th, 979th, 980th, 981st, and 989th;


Six 155mm SP gun battalions:




The 174th, 258th, 557th, 558th, 987th, and 991st;


Thirty-eight 8" howitzer battalions:




The 194th, 195th, 207th, 264th, 529th, 535th, 578th Colored, 630th, 656th,
657th, 658th, 659th, 660th, 661st, 662nd, 663rd, 736th, 738th, 739th, 740th,
741st, 742nd, 743rd, 744th, 745th, 746th, 747th, 748th, 787th, 788th, 790th,
791st, 793rd, 932nd, 933rd, 995th, 997th, and 999th Colored;


Five 8" gun battalions:




The 153rd, 243rd, 256th, 268th, and 575th;


And fifteen 240mm howitzer battalions:




The 265th, 266th, 267th, 269th, 270th, 272nd, 277th, 278th, 538th, 539th, 551st,
552nd, 553rd, 697th, and 698th.

a US Corporal could call on 200+ tubes in a jam in early '45.

*poof*





Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 09:08 PM (LRFds)

345 anyway this wound up being a decent exercise in looking back over my data, and if nothing else valuable as i had not looked at my world war two stuff much since barack got in to office.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 11, 2013 09:18 PM (LRFds)






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