Paul Krugman: Crisis? What crisis?

Exhibit A.

A reeking waft from this steaming pile of fecal matter:

But aren’t we facing a fiscal crisis? No, not at all. The federal government can borrow more cheaply than at almost any point in history, and medium-term forecasts, like the 10-year projections released Tuesday by the Congressional Budget Office, are distinctly not alarming. Yes, there’s a long-term fiscal problem, but it’s not urgent that we resolve that long-term problem right now. The alleged fiscal crisis exists only in the minds of Beltway insiders.

Based on what I read here, Paul Krugman is non compos mentis and should be committed to a mental institution soon. He is clearly a danger to both himself and others.

This nonsense isn't even Keynesian economics, neo- or otherwise. This is just pure balls-out craziness, with a healthy dose of reckless "eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die!" abandon thrown in. Four years of utter failure on both fiscal and monetary policy do not faze him. Krugman's economics can be summarized by Jiminy Cricket: if you wish upon a star, your dreams will come true.

These are the words of a man bent on suicide. If you plan on being dead tomorrow, worrying about the day after is pointless.

This is not economics or government policy. This is just murderous ideological cant.

During the repeated failures of the Soviet Union's Five Year Plans during the 1930's, Stalin was notorious for having his inept finance and industrial commissars "disappeared" into gulags or shallow graves. Eventually, the finance and industrial commissars just started to weave bullshit out of thin air to save their own lives: they'd falsify reports, adjust previous projections downwards, and alter historical records. Over time, as the years passed, they lost their ability to tell the truth from their own bullshit. They'd report that 20,000 pairs of shoes had been produced in a given month at a factory, let's say. But the reality was they had no real idea how many shoes had been produced: more, less, or none at all. They found out over time that Stalin and the Politburo only cared about the reported numbers, not the goods produced. As long as the record showed the proper number of shoes being produced, it didn't matter that there were no actual shoes to be had. They understood, finally, the nature of the job. It wasn't to manage the actual economy. It was to make the regime look good.

Krugman is the intellectual heir of those Marxist tools in the Soviet Union. To him, the economic numbers no longer pertain to anything actually happening in the real world -- he doesn't give the fattest kind of shit whether the budget numbers align with the world of real things. Real-world numbers make his boyfriend Obama look bad, and the continuing failure of Obama's fiscal policies make the socialist ideology look bad. Krugman can't have that. Somewhere, deep down, the real economist that Krugman used to be knows that this is all the rankest kind of bullshit...but the socialist tool that Krugman has become doesn't care.

Socialism doesn't work. It never works. It never has worked, it never will work. Karl Marx was full of shit, and the human race has sacrificed millions of innocent lives and untold wealth proving that beyond all possible doubt. Yet fuckheads like Krugman are still beguiled by his shitty, murderous, tired, discredited philosophy.

It offends me to live in a society that elevates someone like Krugman into a position where he can influence public opinion. Much of what is wrong with our country can be neatly encapsulated in the bitter, miserable, bearded little homunculus that is Paul Krugman.

Posted by: Monty at 09:12 AM



Comments

1 Stop beating around the bush, and tell us what you _really_ think about PK.

Posted by: gp at February 09, 2013 09:16 AM (mk9aG)

2 It only "works" for the people who ram it down our throats.

Wish I could send him and every asshole who thinks like him back in time to spend one day - 24 little hours - inside a gulag.

Fuck him to Hell.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2013 09:16 AM (XkWWK)

3 With apologies to Monty for going OT; I missed the morning thread.

Anyway, the link in my signature goes to Breitbart.

Apparently Obama has taken the La Raza position and made it our national policy.

I thought that the worst that could happen is that we import 40 million third worlders.

I have a feeling he's getting ready to cede Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico to old Mexico.

Posted by: Truman North, housebound by executive fiat at February 09, 2013 09:17 AM (I2LwF)

4 Maybe we can bottle Monty's bile and sell it to freezing New England residents to keep them warm.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 09:17 AM (FqcJu)

5 Holy crap! Could the tide be turning? someone who influences public opinion actually said something against Obama:

Tina Brown actually said something AGAINST Obama!!

http://tinyurl.com/bz5384q

maybe it's just a matter of time before someone puts Krugman publicly in his place..

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at February 09, 2013 09:18 AM (53riN)

6 Krugman is compost mentist.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:18 AM (+z4pE)

7 Krugman is a follower of The Black Knight:

"It's just a flesh wound!"

Posted by: GuyfromNH at February 09, 2013 09:18 AM (kbOju)

8 5 Posted by: RondinellaMamma at February 09, 2013 09:18 AM (53riN)

Saying something against SCOAMF is one thing. That just means she's all in for Hillary in '16. Tina Brown is not about to have a David Mamet epiphany, let alone a Michelle Rhee.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2013 09:20 AM (XkWWK)

9 Besides being a failure as an economic theory, Marxism is also immoral: it robs one person of the fruit of their labor in order to give it to another person that has been infantilized by pleading need, plus requiring a ruling class in order to plan the redistribution. Krugman just figures he's going to be in the ruling class.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at February 09, 2013 09:21 AM (nYHk7)

10 Krugman is the intellectual heir of those Marxist tools in the Soviet Union. .....
Socialism doesn't work. It never works. It never has worked, it never will work. Karl Marx was full of shit,.......

*****
It was never supposed to work as advertised. It is a mechanism of control and eugenics developed and funded by the elite of the elite to control and get rid of us.

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at February 09, 2013 09:21 AM (MhA4j)

11 As far as Marx goes... He was right in his cultural analysis but apeshit coo-coo in his economics. It's hard to take someone seriously if they can't understand the concept of "retail."

Nobody who is involved in actual commerce can take Marx seriously... Which is why he's so seductive for those in academia and government. The theories all look great, but they do not in any way describe the real world.

Same for Keynes. Beautiful and elegant and utterly divorced from reality.

Keynes is even more attractive to those with a monopoly on the use of deadly force: according to Keynes, the government can spend money on literally anything, anything at all, and it will be a uniformly effective stimulus.

Posted by: Truman North, housebound by executive fiat at February 09, 2013 09:21 AM (I2LwF)

12 I gathered all I needed to knw from the clip you provided yet still tried t read the entire piece.

I ust couldn't do it.

The fact that we need to borrow money, AT ANY RATE, doesn't seem to concern him whatsoever.

He is a tiny little man who lives off the admiration of others. The way he maintains his status is through a symbiotic relationship with the left.

I wouldn't expect anything resembling honesty from him any time soon.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 09, 2013 09:24 AM (piMMO)

13
It's a wonderment to me how, in a short span, all of the basics of sound economic theory have been swept away. No longer does anyone hear about how capitalism should work, how capitalism has raised the standard of living for the entire world, how wealth is created, nor how this administration is throttling it through overregulation. We never hear about how people's lives are ruined by the current shitty economy. We don't hear about skyrocketing prices of gas and groceries, or the many businesses that have closed their doors in the past five years.

All we hear is this nonsensical happy-talk from an economic ignoramus.

We are well and truly screwed.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:24 AM (+z4pE)

14 Wow, the stupid is strong in that Krugman piece. Of course military spending generates jobs, jackass, we're actually building things. What jobs do dairy subsidies that encourage dairy farmers to dump excess milk produce? How many jobs are LOST due to government spending to create nature preserves that stifle industry, or enforcing stupid Gaia-cult regulations that have scant if any evidence for their existence?
Wait for a better economy so that the Fed can cushion the impact of austerity? We must feed the beast so it continues to grow, and then when more money magically appears even though we keep taking more for the beast, we will use the beast's money to cushion the impact of the beast having less money? That's ridiculous even as a sentence, yet alone the actual policy content.
How does anyone actually believe this stuff?

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 09:25 AM (FqcJu)

15 @10- Mr Accuracy, can I buy you a cup of coffee?
Hell, let's order a good old country breakfast, on me.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 09:25 AM (iW2D2)

16 So, Monty, you're telling me... there's a chance?

Posted by: Paul Krugman at February 09, 2013 09:26 AM (BBWjt)

17 Tina Brown is not about to have a David Mamet epiphany, let alone a Michelle Rhee.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2013 09:20 AM (XkWWK)

I can dream.
Can't I?

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at February 09, 2013 09:26 AM (53riN)

18 How come what works for the govt. ..."limitless debt"...doesn't work for me? I don't get it.

Posted by: BignJames at February 09, 2013 09:26 AM (Sg0G/)

19 At the very best, government slending has a .5 multiplier- one dollar wasted for every dollar spent.

I bet it's closer to .16

Posted by: Truman North, housebound by executive fiat at February 09, 2013 09:27 AM (I2LwF)

20 He has no children, makes tons of dough and lives like a king. What the hell does he care about the American peoples' future?

Posted by: madamex at February 09, 2013 09:28 AM (+kvQd)

21 Borrowing for capital improvement is different than borrowing to give away.

But Krug don't get that.

Posted by: Truman North, housebound by executive fiat at February 09, 2013 09:29 AM (I2LwF)

22 I think his cat is doing his thinking for him.

Isn't there a parasite that cats give humans to control them?

That one.

Paul: step away from the computer and put down the pussy!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 09, 2013 09:29 AM (qyv02)

23 Come now, tell us what you really think about him.

Posted by: Matt S. at February 09, 2013 09:29 AM (7oWbB)

24 It's easy to keep rates low when you buy all the debt you auction off yourself.

Posted by: pointsnfigures at February 09, 2013 09:30 AM (EBPRt)

25 Just walk away! Just walk away and live!

Give in and all is forgotten.



Humongous/cave - 2016


There are worse places to go.
- Sandra Fluke

Posted by: Lord Humongous at February 09, 2013 09:30 AM (SSWdi)

26 17 I can dream.
Can't I?
Posted by: RondinellaMamma at February 09, 2013 09:26 AM (53riN)


I suppose it's possible. But if she ever does one it will be career and social suicide for her.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2013 09:30 AM (XkWWK)

27
No longer does anyone hear about how capitalism should work,
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:24 AM (+z4pE)

BwB, The owner of Whole Foods keeps catching flak for his position in FAVOR of capitalism. (it was even linked here on AoSHQ the other day.)

http://tinyurl.com/aoez5y3

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at February 09, 2013 09:31 AM (53riN)

28 These "fiscal multipliers" anyway are pure bullshit. They are POST HOC rationalizations that attempt to explain PAST behavior. I challenge anyone to find any instance in which the use of "fiscal multipliers" successfully predicted the economic outcome of some particular plan. It can't be done because the "fiscal multiplier" is so heavily dependent on the conditions at the time. It is almost as if human economic behavior cannot be rationally planned in advance...

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 09:31 AM (BBWjt)

29 Doubling down on being a fucktard.

You can always count on Mr. Krugman for some nice morning comedy.

"Wow, crack has never been cheaper than it is right now - there's just never been a better time to smoke crack!"

Posted by: akula51 at February 09, 2013 09:31 AM (RpvB7)

30 At face value, Krugman is, sort of, correct .. the problem occurs when interest rate eventually have to rise.

With QE1, QE2 et al, the money supply is extended by having the Federal Reserve buying Treasury debt. When interest are finally eased, the larger the debt the faster the hyper-inflation.

Bottomline: if you follow the advice of Krugman, don't be part of the party in power when the Fed starts to let interest rate "float." You will be remembered as "the guys who made Jimmy Carter look good"

Posted by: Gordon Gekko at February 09, 2013 09:31 AM (e8kgV)

31 Krugman is a liar. George Bush didn't inherit a surplus from Bill Clinton, he inherited the recession that followed the unregulated dot . com collapse.

Clinton also signed the laws that allowed banks to blur the lines between investments and holdings, which led to the capital freeze after the Dodd/Frank mortgage fraud collapse.

Posted by: Blacksheep at February 09, 2013 09:32 AM (bS6uW)

32
I bet it's closer to .16

I've read several figures that all confirm that by the time a gubmint dollar finally makes its way back into the economy, it's lost 40% of its value to overhead costs.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:32 AM (+z4pE)

33 They understood, finally, the nature of the job. It wasn't to manage the actual economy. It was to make the regime look good.

Isn't that our goverment in a nutshell? If John Q Citizen actually knew the truth, their would be a seismic shift in the make up of the political class.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 09:33 AM (l86i3)

34 "I've read several figures that all confirm that by the time a gubmint
dollar finally makes its way back into the economy, it's lost 40% of its
value to overhead costs."

-- If a charity ran that inefficiently, it would get audited.

Posted by: Matt S. at February 09, 2013 09:34 AM (7oWbB)

35 http://tinyurl.com/b37yaay

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 09:34 AM (sdi6R)

36 I liked him in "The Odd Couple".

Posted by: Frankly at February 09, 2013 09:34 AM (cH2mf)

37 32
I bet it's closer to .16

I've read several figures that all confirm that by the time a gubmint dollar finally makes its way back into the economy, it's lost 40% of its value to overhead costs.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:32 AM (+z4pE)


If it really does/did exist, the Mafia is better for the economy than the government.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2013 09:34 AM (XkWWK)

38 "Where did you dig up this old fossil?"

Posted by: H Solo at February 09, 2013 09:34 AM (n8LUb)

39 I think his cat is doing his thinking for him.

Isn't there a parasite that cats give humans to control them?

That one.

Paul: step away from the computer and put down the pussy!

***

How is it possible that every Krugman post isn't accompanied by the photo of him stroking his cat?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 09, 2013 09:38 AM (piMMO)

40 How is it possible that every Krugman post isn't accompanied by the photo of him stroking his cat?
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 09, 2013 09:38 AM (piMMO)


Its still early and people are eating their breakfast.

Posted by: buzzion at February 09, 2013 09:39 AM (GULKT)

41 @14 yes, the stupid is strong in professor krugman, but in the comments appended to his scrawl, the stupid is weapons-grade. I am stupider myself for having read both.

The esteemed former Enron advisor and his acolytes cannot distinguish cause from effect, and they have no concept of consequences. In their world, everything bad is due to the evil bushitlercheneyhaliburton.

Why are interest rates low,Paul? Is it because investors are bidding rates down in their zeal to accumulate us gubmint debt, or is it because the egg heads at the fed have spewed free money around? Duh. And if it's the dopes at the fed sitting on interest rates, why do you predict this can go on indefinitely and without consequence?

In Enron advisor krugman's world, artificially low interest rates are a price signal that everything is ok. In the real world, they are a termite-infested Potemkin village, substituting false storefronts of asset (stock, real estate) for self-sustaining growth and productivity. Great: you ramped the stock market back to pre-crisis levels. Now what?

Had the focus been on clearing out the dead wood, then all the wasted money used to prop up and paper over the stuff that should have failed could have been productively used. Which is better, mr Enron advisor? A job with recurring income, based on one's productive output, or a mark night in a stock or real estate investment? It's a tough question, so think about it, you dope.

Posted by: Luke duke at February 09, 2013 09:39 AM (IinjK)

42
Krugman's economic nihilistic rants are not a bug but a feature..

Why would he rant on and on about borrowing in an irresponsible way.
Short term: It makes the phony economy look good (relatively speaking) and avoids the real pain of the bad economics. It buys political power for Obama and like minded politicos. Vote buying.

Yet in the longer term, the personalities fade, but the incredible debt remains. This serves the longer structural purpose of driving all business into corporatist-socialist relations with the government. There will be no more of this "free enterprise" because unless you are connected or get government grants and "low interest green energy loans", you will find it hard to impossible tofunction as a business.

And the huge federal overhang of debt is a real brake on returning to any kind of sustained prosperity. In short, the debt that we are accumulating is a kind of long term tool for political control over the economy, business and you. Everything within the State, nothing outside of the State. That's what the long term purpose of the huge debt is about.

Krugman may be an idiot and innumerate, but that is the real purpose of his ranting. He's been told what to say and is repeating it for the faction that gives him intellectual credence.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at February 09, 2013 09:40 AM (Md8Uo)

43 You do not know how hard I am praying that cat is not being used euphemistically here. Please, by all that is good and holy, let this be a real cat.

Posted by: Matt S. at February 09, 2013 09:40 AM (7oWbB)

44 Krugman just figures he's going to be in the ruling class.

***

Krugman and his ilk see themselves as wielding the whip inside the labor camp rather than being whipped.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 09, 2013 09:40 AM (VlXYw)

45 Over at Drudge, the Navy is delaying the refueling of the USS Abraham Lincoln due to budget concerns.

?????

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 09, 2013 09:40 AM (piMMO)

46 According to the AoS style sheet, all references to PK should begin "former Enron financial advisor Paul Krugman".

Posted by: Buck Ofama at February 09, 2013 09:40 AM (Z0oda)

47 >>>Much of what is wrong with our country can be neatly encapsulated in
the bitter, miserable, bearded little homunculus that is Paul Krugman.

Credentialism- You tell people someone is Dr. This and they check their brains at the door. We have told people for decades that educated=smart and they bought it.

Posted by: typodynamofo at February 09, 2013 09:41 AM (WVMUQ)

48 Really, would we trust economic analysis from any guy not tall enough to ride a roller coaster? See; Reich, Krugman

Posted by: Fartist at February 09, 2013 09:42 AM (eMuCW)

49 You do not know how hard I am praying that cat is not being used euphemistically here. Please, by all that is good and holy, let this be a real cat.

****

http://binged.it/V6hklv

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 09, 2013 09:42 AM (piMMO)

50
I call it the That's Crazy Talk mind-game phase.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 09, 2013 09:43 AM (vuIm8)

51
Fartist @ 48

that right there is pretty funny

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at February 09, 2013 09:43 AM (Md8Uo)

52 Alright--the credit card company just cut its interest rate from 21% to 20.3%! Time to pile up some more charges on daddy's card!

Posted by: paula krugman at February 09, 2013 09:43 AM (ORGYc)

53 Apt metaphor: you don’t have a crisis when you put a gun to your head .. the crisis begins when you pull the trigger

Posted by: Gordon Gekko at February 09, 2013 09:43 AM (e8kgV)

54 Please, by all that is good and holy, let this be a real cat.


actually, for the sake of kittehs everywhere, I hope it's not a real cat - wouldn't want them getting Krugman cooties

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 09:43 AM (BBWjt)

55 47 Credentialism- You tell people someone is Dr. This and they check their brains at the door. We have told people for decades that educated=smart and they bought it.
Posted by: typodynamofo at February 09, 2013 09:41 AM (WVMUQ)

The left is loaded with them. From Dr. Mengele to Dr. Dre.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2013 09:44 AM (XkWWK)

56 Who is that weird villain who had all the cats in one of the James Bond movies? That's all I can think of when I see Krugman with cats.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 09, 2013 09:45 AM (PxYrx)

57 This is just murderous ideological cant.
Is "cant" a typo, Monty?

Posted by: andycanuck at February 09, 2013 09:45 AM (ORGYc)

58 Paul Krugman is very, very fond of his "cat".

NTTAWWT

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 09, 2013 09:45 AM (qyv02)

59 @31

Exactly. My 401k was gutted the August before Bush was elected.

Posted by: Gem at February 09, 2013 09:45 AM (zw+pb)

60 Credentialism- You tell people someone is Dr. This and they check their brains at the door.

And it just goes to show how shallow leftists are nowadays. Virtually every economic argument that they make about the economy and taxes come straight from former Enron advisor Paul Krugman. They just read his columns and regurgitate it. They don't stop to think about it themselves - it reinforces their narrative, and Krugman has a Ph.D. and a Nobel Prize, so he must be right!!! Even in today's column Krugman says something like "countless studies show I'm right" - does he cite the studies? Of course not.

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 09:46 AM (BBWjt)

61 Blofeld, and he had one cat.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 09:46 AM (FqcJu)

62 And by the way I see this all the time with today's students in my own classes. It is painful to try to push them to engage their brains beyond simply repeating what they have heard in lecture or read in the book. This is the crowd that former Enron advisor Krugman caters to - the people who can't be bothered to think.

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 09:47 AM (BBWjt)

63 Actually, someone dredge up the old post by Ace about how he thought it was ridiculous that SPECTRE disguised itself as an international relief organization (an NGO, I guess we would call it now) when he was younger, but now he realizes that Fleming was spot on.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 09:48 AM (FqcJu)

64 ONE cat and everyone thinks it's an obsession.

Posted by: Paul Krugman (Cat Hoarder) at February 09, 2013 09:48 AM (qyv02)

65 The zombies are still blocks away. We don't need to lock the doors yet.

Posted by: Paul Krugman at February 09, 2013 09:48 AM (VlXYw)

66 #15 Teej
People would do well to check out Dr Dennis Cuddy PhD

Excellent compiler of source materials

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at February 09, 2013 09:48 AM (MhA4j)

67 >>Much of what is wrong with our country can be neatly encapsulated in
the bitter, miserable, bearded little homunculus that is Paul Krugman.



Normally I'd say "that's gonna leave a mark", but in this case the word crater might be more accurate.


Posted by: ontherocks at February 09, 2013 09:49 AM (aZ6ew)

68
Is Paul Krugman Ernst Blofelt?

Have you ever seen them in the same room together??

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at February 09, 2013 09:49 AM (Md8Uo)

69
Krugman is the type of idiot who thinks that inflation is good and that prices are high because value is high. "Look how much this costs! It must be just chocked full of value!"

I've forgotten more about economics than he'll ever know. And I agree with the AoSHQ Style Manual that states that all references to him should be prefaced with, "Former Enron Financial Advisor." I'm willing to bet around 85% of Americans have forgotten all about that little incident.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:49 AM (+z4pE)

70 Is "cant" a typo, Monty?

-----------------------

Nope.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cant?s=t

Posted by: Monty at February 09, 2013 09:50 AM (G8OwX)

71
>>>Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..


Spot on, 'ol chum.

The whole point is to drive up massive debt thus leaving no recourse but through unprecendented government reforms on private property and business.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 09, 2013 09:51 AM (vuIm8)

72 Chemjeff- They have been taught not to think. If they doubt something by an exalted Dr they are almost sure to be excoriated as anti-science and have their lack of education re said Doc shoved in their face. Most people cower at that.

Posted by: typodynamofo at February 09, 2013 09:51 AM (WVMUQ)

73 You're right, Monty. A Krugman telling the truth is a An Unneccessary Krugman. He would be discredited anddestroyed by the puppet media, and then the lawfare.
What evil times are these.

Posted by: Gem at February 09, 2013 09:51 AM (zw+pb)

74 Krugman, with wallet empty.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:51 AM (+z4pE)

75 70 so his cant is as disgusting as his bent?

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at February 09, 2013 09:51 AM (MhA4j)

76 Krugman is the type of idiot who thinks that inflation is good and that prices are high because value is high. "Look how much this costs! It must be just chocked full of value!"
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:49 AM (+z4pE)

But...but...if you double the prices then you can double the workers' wages!

Posted by: somebody else, not me at February 09, 2013 09:52 AM (nZvGM)

77 Not to toot my own horn, but I think the post should be updated with the demotivator I linked in #35. I first saw it in a comment at Ticker Forum, and it cracks me up every time I see it.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 09:52 AM (sdi6R)

78 Ask yourselves this...
Why would anyone so ridiculous be so promoted by the intelligentsia as valid?

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at February 09, 2013 09:52 AM (MhA4j)

79 Obama's foreign policy and Krugman's economic policy cred both seem to come down to, "because, Nobel Prize...shut up!"

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 09:54 AM (FqcJu)

80 Posted by: Fartist at February 09, 2013 09:42 AM(eMuCW)

Careful. You're likely to get an unexpected emu-sized box if Alex the Chick, Empress of Alextopia gets wind of your opinion.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, assault Hobbit at February 09, 2013 09:54 AM (wbeNt)

81
We are seeing their plan unfold before our eyes -- all you have to do is to look to the health care sector to see what's in store for education, banking, and energy.


Posted by: soothsayer at February 09, 2013 09:55 AM (uff2W)

82
Why would anyone so ridiculous be so promoted by the intelligentsia as valid?



Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy DeptTruth are lies. Ignorance is strength. Wrong is right.It's the whole premise of moral inversion; elevation of something wrong as right, hatred of the good for being the good.The paradigm of our age.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at February 09, 2013 09:56 AM (Md8Uo)

83 Nice link, RonMama.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:56 AM (+z4pE)

84 I think every one who appears on TV or the State Media should have a brief cv running under them on screen and in the byline.

Like George Stephanopoulis : Previous Democrat communications director for Bill Clinton White House Communications Director then Senior Advisor for Policy and Strategy and currently a Democrat operative paid by ABC for insider information and implementation of Democrat Party directives from the current White House.

That would be way more honest that what goes on now.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 09, 2013 09:57 AM (qyv02)

85 Tina Brown actually said something AGAINST Obama!!



http://tinyurl.com/bz5384q



maybe it's just a matter of time before someone puts Krugman publicly in his place..

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at February 09, 2013 09:18 AM

Talking Tina is a longtime Hillary sycophant and if Hillary had ordered the drone strikes, Tina would call it the "New Zeitgeist"

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 09:57 AM (mCvL4)

86 You're correct. He had one cat and Krugman still reminds me of him.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 09, 2013 09:58 AM (PxYrx)

87 A good piece here on the increasingly heated Currency Wars

Currency Wars Often Lead to Trade Wars ... Which In Turn Can Devolve Into Hot Wars

http://tinyurl.com/b87j38j

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 09:59 AM (mCvL4)

88
Like George Stephanopoulis : Previous Democrat communications director for Bill Clinton White House Communications Director then Senior Advisor for Policy and Strategy and currently a Democrat operative paid by ABC for insider information and implementation of Democrat Party directives from the current White House.

Shortened (heh) to: Dim Hack.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:59 AM (+z4pE)

89 kbdabear: I laughed.

So what's her latest catastrophe going to be?

Or should I say who's she "working" for now?

I wish someone would hire her at the White House.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 09, 2013 10:00 AM (qyv02)

90 Someone in the comments asserted that budget surpluses "cause depressions, always have, always will".


It's not just Krugman (I honestly don't think he believes his own bullshit), it's the ostensibly "educated" sheep like the ones in the comment section. If he didn't have a host of sycophantic idiots, he wouldn't have a job.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 10:01 AM (DvVVN)

91 If he didn't have a host of sycophantic idiots, he wouldn't have a job.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 10:01 AM (DvVVN)

Oh, he'd have a job. Every Criminal needs a mouthpiece.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at February 09, 2013 10:02 AM (qyv02)

92 @66- DoAD-
Hopefully a few will. I don't know him but I've seen all this put together elsewhere.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 10:07 AM (epFwI)

93
The federal government can borrow more cheaply than at almost any point in history, and medium-term forecasts, like the 10-year projections released Tuesday by the Congressional Budget Office, are distinctly not alarming.

So, how about the short-term numbers for the most recent fiscal quarter, the one around the Holidays, that showed a negative GDP, Mr. Pussystroker?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 10:08 AM (+z4pE)

94 I actually was told to shut up by someone on FB when I went on a rant about Krugman and Robert Reich. They asked me where my Nobel prizes were and that I should shut up based on me not having one.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 09, 2013 10:08 AM (jucos)

95
Moreover, Krugman says these ridiculous things to snare You into arguing with him.

Krugman is no different than the internet trolls who come here and say disgusting of-the-wall shit to elicit a response from you. They want you to spend your time defending common sense and logic.

Do not waste your time.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 09, 2013 10:09 AM (KwX0v)

96 That may the best answer ever given to the question, "What the fuck is wrong with Paul Krugman?".

Posted by: brainpimp at February 09, 2013 10:11 AM (0/s3/)

97 As Jules might say to Krugman: Causality, motherf*cker, do you speak it?!?

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 10:11 AM (FqcJu)

98 Krugman is no different than the internet trolls who come here and say disgusting of-the-wall shit to elicit a response from you. Do not waste your time. Posted by: soothsayer at February 09, 2013 10:09 AM

Took me a while to have that sink in.

I'm a slow learner.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 09, 2013 10:12 AM (Q719M)

99 Krugman long ago abandoned rational economics for left-wing polemics. He has throngs of faithful readers who celebrate him, not for scientific insight, but for giving credentialed cover to the power-grabbing of the Left.

Posted by: zsasz at February 09, 2013 10:13 AM (MMC8r)

100 Krugman's economic policies make about as much sense as inviting Jessica Fletcher down for the weekend without laying in a store of coffins.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 09, 2013 10:14 AM (VlXYw)

101 I was just in a taxi going from Athens airport to hotel and the driver is an electronics engineer but can't get a job unless he leaves his country. He said one of the biggest plagues is the "you gotta know someone" way of hiring that gets done here. And lots of bureaucratic red tape. Sounds more and more like US. The US as Greece in a few years is scary to contemplate. Fuck

Posted by: fastfreefall at February 09, 2013 10:14 AM (ngjEQ)

102 Never was a fan of Kensyans economics.

Posted by: Whatev at February 09, 2013 10:14 AM (A7Wh1)

103
Moreover, Krugman says these ridiculous things to snare You into arguing with him.

Krugman is no different than the internet trolls who come here and say disgusting of-the-wall shit to elicit a response from you. They want you to spend your time defending common sense and logic.

Do not waste your time.


If he didn't have such a major role to play in the destruction of my country, I'd be happy to oblige by leaving him alone in his delusions. Degree or Nobel Prize or not, he's a blithering economic idiot and deserves to be called out on his bullshit at every opportunity.

You can't tell me it's not fun to eviscerate a troll from time to time.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 10:14 AM (+z4pE)

104 Eventually, the finance and industrial commissars just started to weave
bullshit out of thin air to save their own lives: they'd falsify
reports, adjust previous projections downwards, and alter historical
records.






Reagan would tell the joke that the commissar for wheat production is talking to a farmer and asks about the year's wheat production. Oh commissar we produced so much wheat if we stacked it all up it would touch the foot of God. Comrade, says the commissar, this is the Soviet Union, there is no God. Farmer: That's okay commissar because there's really no wheat either

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 09, 2013 10:14 AM (bJTBz)

105 Holy shit! Has this been covered here?
=======
From Insty:
According to the affidavit filed in support of the criminal complaint,
on November 30, 2012, Llaneza met with a man who led him to believe he
was connected with the Taliban and the mujahidin in Afghanistan. In
reality, this man was an undercover FBI agent. At this initial meeting,
Llaneza proposed conducting a car-bomb attack against a bank in the San
Francisco Bay Area. He proposed structuring the attack to make it appear that the
responsible party was an umbrella organization for a loose collection of
anti-government militias and their sympathizers. Llaneza’s stated goal
was to trigger a governmental crackdown, which he expected would trigger
a right-wing counter-response against the government followed by, he
hoped, civil war.
===========

This was after--AFTER--lord and savior had won reelection. There is a 100% chance he voted for the JEF. How many more are like him out there?

I don't know. But it's greater than one lone nut in San Fran.

This shit is going to get out of control and fast.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 09, 2013 10:17 AM (VjL9S)

106 As usual, Monty brings the common sense.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:17 AM (bb5+k)

107 Krugman's Nobel Prize is as meaningful as TFG's Peace Prize.

Posted by: zsasz at February 09, 2013 10:18 AM (MMC8r)

108 Krugman's economics can be summarized by Jiminy Cricket: if you wish upon a star, your dreams will come true.







That's liberalism in a nutshell. None of it works or has any chance to work but they blindly buy into it because they are so committed to the cause. To quote Thomas Sowell “Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three
decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.”

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 09, 2013 10:19 AM (bJTBz)

109 This shit is going to get out of control and fast.

This is the signal for a quote from Admiral Josh Painter.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 09, 2013 10:19 AM (Q719M)

110 Shot you an email about the True North gig a few minutes ago chemjeff.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 10:20 AM (cgXSq)

111 #82. See Evan Sayet's Kindergarten of Eden for a similar opinion.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 09, 2013 10:20 AM (VlXYw)

112
Keynes is even more attractive to those with a
monopoly on the use of deadly force: according to Keynes, the government
can spend money on literally anything, anything at all, and it will be a
uniformly effective stimulus.

Posted by: Truman North at February 09, 2013 09:21 AM (I2LwF)

I hate to be put into the position of having to defend Keynes, but his economic theories are not quite that bad. It's just that a lot of people who WANT to spend money keep citing him as an authority on why it's a good idea.

Keynes was not an idiot. He put caveats on a lot of his arguments. What they call "Keynesian economics" nowadays, Keynes would probably have a hard time recognizing.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:21 AM (bb5+k)

113
B-boy, here's how it works:

Krugman says something outrageous. You respond with the facts but you're clearly outraged and agitated.

To the ignorant observer, i.e. the voter, it's you who looks crazy!

If you ever watched Krugman on tv he'll say this stupid shit and then lean back with a little smile as the other guest responds.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 09, 2013 10:22 AM (LPRBM)

114 teej, thanks, got it

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 10:24 AM (BBWjt)

115
I've read several figures that all confirm that
by the time a gubmint dollar finally makes its way back into the
economy, it's lost 40% of its value to overhead costs.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 09:32 AM (+z4pE)

This has always been about our betters deciding where the fruits of our labor goes. It gives them a sense that they are "ruling" us when they direct the flow of our money. It also justifies the need for THEM, at least in their own minds.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:24 AM (bb5+k)

116

btw, I don't get any satisfaction disproving some lunatic's claim the sky is green

yet there I am standing there under the blue sky arguing with a crazy person


who's more the fool, him or I?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 09, 2013 10:25 AM (LPRBM)

117 "It offends me to live in a society that elevates someone like Krugman into a position where he can influence public opinion. " It offends me even more that he spouts this bullshit from my alma mater, Princeton. What an embarrassment.

Posted by: jb at February 09, 2013 10:25 AM (GqTDY)

118
I've read several figures that all confirm that
by the time a gubmint dollar finally makes its way back into the
economy, it's lost 40% of its value to overhead costs.


No. That value has simply been converted into a bureaucratic class that votes Democrat to maintain the bureaucracy. It's converted into votes.

Posted by: zsasz at February 09, 2013 10:26 AM (MMC8r)

119 "This will get out of control! This will get out of control, and we'll be lucky to live through it!" -J. Painter, USN

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 10:26 AM (FqcJu)

120 I'm sorry, but I'm just in a contrarian mood today...

Of course Krugman is a total asshole who has never been right about anything in his life. How can anyone argue otherwise?

However, in acknowledging that fact, it shouldn't be taken as approval of the other extreme. There are those who have a martyr complex and a willingness to have us all flogged to pay for past sins I had nothing to do with.

Eliminate, cut or means test all the shit I'm just about to get while having me pay more? What's up with that? All the previous generations get to skate by and all the ones coming up have their burden eased while I take it in the ass? I don't think so.

All the country's problems can't be solved in one grand bargain with me picking up the tab, so some things need to be "kicked down the road".

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 10:26 AM (ZDsRL)

121 "Socialism doesn't work. It never works. It never has worked, it never will work. Karl Marx was full of shit, and the human race has sacrificed millions of innocent lives and untold wealth proving that beyond all possible doubt. Yet fuckheads like Krugman are still beguiled by his shitty, murderous, tired, discredited philosophy."

Mare loves monty.

Posted by: mare at February 09, 2013 10:27 AM (A98Xu)

122 It's just that a lot of people who WANT to spend money keep citing him as an authority on why it's a good idea.

Cafeteria Keynesianism?

Posted by: zsasz at February 09, 2013 10:27 AM (MMC8r)

123 I. Left. My. Brain.
In San Fracisco.

Posted by: Tony Bennett at February 09, 2013 10:27 AM (VlXYw)

124 Krugman, Frum and Brooks all look like they've seen the inside of the same gym locker repeatedly and involuntarily.


Posted by: ontherocks at February 09, 2013 10:27 AM (aZ6ew)

125 Keynes was not an idiot. He put caveats on a lot of his arguments. What they call "Keynesian economics" nowadays, Keynes would probably have a hard time recognizing.

===========

This is true. Modern "Keynesianism" really isn't anything Keynes himself would recognize. Even in its classical form, Keynesianism didn't work (as Hayek and Hazlitt demostrated pretty conclusively) -- but the economic policy that Krugman and his ilk are pushing owes more to pure Marxist economics than anything Keynes promoted.

Posted by: Monty at February 09, 2013 10:27 AM (G8OwX)

126 His eyes keep flicking around like he half-expects Milton Friedman to pop up and kick his ass from here to Wall Street.



Posted by: ChampionCapua at February 09, 2013 10:27 AM (KZi9D)

127 The only human worse than The Krugman is Bawney Fwank.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at February 09, 2013 10:28 AM (ndlFj)

128
Credentialism- You tell people someone is Dr.
This and they check their brains at the door. We have told people for
decades that educated=smart and they bought it.


Posted by: typodynamofo at February 09, 2013 09:41 AM (WVMUQ)

And who's been saying this? Liberal twits running Education and Academia.

I will point out that it is all the "GENIUS" presidents that really fuck things up.

Wilson, Roosevelt, Carter, Obama. (for example.) The English have a saying.

Too clever by half.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:29 AM (bb5+k)

129 The only human worse than The Krugman is Bawney Fwank.

Damn. It was my turn, too.

Posted by: Chuck Schumer at February 09, 2013 10:29 AM (MMC8r)

130 112
Keynes was not an idiot. He put caveats on a lot of his arguments. What they call "Keynesian economics" nowadays, Keynes would probably have a hard time recognizing.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:21 AM (bb5+k)


For example, while he advocated deficit spending during economic recessions in order to stimulate the economy, he also recommended that governments cut spending and run a surplus during boom times.

Modern politicians prefer deficit spending during both booms and recessions. If tax revenues increase during good times, hey, that's just more to spend.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 10:29 AM (sdi6R)

131 "I have a feeling he's getting ready to cede Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico to old Mexico. "

Have fun with that one, Bro.

Posted by: 6 Flags over Texas at February 09, 2013 10:31 AM (wsGWu)

132 48
Really, would we trust economic analysis from any guy not tall enough to ride a roller coaster? See; Reich, Krugman

Posted by: Fartist at February 09, 2013 09:42 AM

I liked Robert Reich on Seinfeld as Mickey Abbott

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 10:31 AM (mCvL4)

133 Krugman deserved hin Nobel in Economics like Ogabe deserved his Peace Prize

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 09, 2013 10:32 AM (Yhu4q)

134 If you ever watched Krugman on tv he'll say this stupid shit and then lean back with a little smile as the other guest responds."


Or turn into a tomato monster.

Posted by: Lauren at February 09, 2013 10:33 AM (wsGWu)

135 Second look: Vlad the Impaler

He was a guy who understood accountability for failure.

Posted by: @PurpAv at February 09, 2013 10:34 AM (J6hHs)

136 Monty, you might find this article interesting.

http://goo.gl/UvWWb

$6.2 trillion of our debt must be refinanced within the next four years, so we are boned once interest rates rise. Krugman's claim that there is no consequence to zero interest borrowing is stupid. Nothing in life is free.

Posted by: Jose/ningrim at February 09, 2013 10:34 AM (srIqv)

137 >>Keynes was not an idiot. He put caveats on a lot of his arguments

Umm...fucking cripes...doesn't that make those think his policies weren't that bad the idiots?

Posted by: Albie Damned at February 09, 2013 10:36 AM (Yhu4q)

138 No. That value has simply been converted into a
bureaucratic class that votes Democrat to maintain the bureaucracy.
It's converted into votes.

Posted by: zsasz at February 09, 2013 10:26 AM (MMC8r)

And this is it in a nutshell.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:36 AM (bb5+k)

139 Much of what is wrong with our country can be neatly encapsulated in the bitter, miserable, bearded little homunculus that is Paul Krugman.

That's a keeper. As in, save in the treasured quotes file.

Posted by: Steve the Pirate at February 09, 2013 10:37 AM (/o5zX)

140 Krugman deserved hin Nobel in Economics like Ogabe deserved his Peace Prize

That's kind of like saying OJ didn't deserve his Heisman.

If I recall, Krugman actually did something and did it well. But, that's in the past.

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2013 10:37 AM (FcR7P)

141
For example, while he advocated deficit spending
during economic recessions in order to stimulate the economy, he also
recommended that governments cut spending and run a surplus during boom
times.



Modern politicians prefer deficit spending during both booms and
recessions. If tax revenues increase during good times, hey, that's
just more to spend.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 10:29 AM (sdi6R)


Keynes was proposing something more on the order of a "shock absorber" and less on the order of "anti-gravity."


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:38 AM (bb5+k)

142 Jose/ningrim at February 09, 2013 10:34 AM (srIqv)

This is why the Japanese are extremely boned. As soon as they have to go to the international bond markets to finance their spending, they are screwed -- the only reason they've been able to keep the boat afloat for as long as they have is that Japanese people themselves buy the debt. But the Japanese are aging, and are turning to spending rather than saving. They're not going to be buying up a lot of government debt, especially at low interest rates. So -- if Japan wants to borrow, they're going to have to offer a juicier vig.

America has the same basic debt profile as Japan (only worse). Japan is coming off of two lost decades; we're starting in on our second. Japan has sky-high debt and a declining population that skews older; so do we.

America's only saving grace so far is that we hold the world's reserve currency, but I think we're within a decade or so of losing that distinction. Once that last firewall goes....

Posted by: Monty at February 09, 2013 10:39 AM (G8OwX)

143 Even in its classical form, Keynesianism didn't work (as Hayek and Hazlitt demostrated pretty conclusively)

Hayek's rejoinders in rap form were classics in the field.
http://scoamf.us/66

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2013 10:40 AM (FcR7P)

144 America's only saving grace so far is that we hold
the world's reserve currency, but I think we're within a decade or so of
losing that distinction. Once that last firewall goes....



Posted by: Monty at February 09, 2013 10:39 AM (G8OwX)

I favor exponential functions regarding sudden changes in economic confidence.

The trouble with exponentials is they are a lot harder to predict because you don't usually know what part of the curve you are on. I think when it breaks bad, it's going to spike quickly.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:42 AM (bb5+k)

145 Obama is "dizzy with success"

Posted by: deepred at February 09, 2013 10:44 AM (rUiSC)

146 I think when it breaks bad, it's going to spike quickly.

-----------

You know that old adage about bankruptcy: slowly, then all at once.

Posted by: Monty at February 09, 2013 10:44 AM (G8OwX)

147 Good point about the so-called educated elite as presidents. Reagan went to a community college! I miss him.

Posted by: Jmel at February 09, 2013 10:45 AM (9tSXa)

148 This is why the Japanese are extremely boned. As
soon as they have to go to the international bond markets to finance
their spending, they are screwed -- the only reason they've been able to
keep the boat afloat for as long as they have is that Japanese people
themselves buy the debt. But the Japanese are aging, and are turning to
spending rather than saving. They're not going to be buying up a lot of
government debt, especially at low interest rates. So -- if Japan wants
to borrow, they're going to have to offer a juicier vig.





Posted by: Monty at February 09, 2013 10:39 AM

It looks like the currency wars that are heating up were escalated by Japan's prime minster, Abe

Venezuela just devalued their peso by more than half as Hugo was having problems selling his debt, so he's gone the Krugman route and printed

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 10:45 AM (mCvL4)

149 Krugman is also wrong that people are lending us money. They are not. We are mostly printing our deficit dollars right now. When we are no longer the worlds reserve currency is when the real pain starts. I recommend you add a lot of debt to your own books right now because in the near future you will be paying that debt off with wildly deflated dollars. Zimbabwe will have nothing on us!

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 09, 2013 10:46 AM (jucos)

150 "Damn. It was my turn, too."

Schumer is in a special category, and leads the way in the "maybe not really human" division. DNA tests are pending, but budget shortfalls have them hung up.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at February 09, 2013 10:46 AM (ndlFj)

151 Krugman just figures he's going to be in the ruling class.



***



Krugman and his ilk see themselves as wielding the whip inside the labor camp rather than being whipped.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 09, 2013 09:40 AM (VlXYw)

The humor of all this is that when the real Communist thugs take over from Nancy boys like Obama the very first people they kill are the "intelligentsia" like Krugman; no hardcore Communist wants anyone around who makes them feel relatively stupid. Given the level of the average Communist's mental facilities that puts pretty much anyone who wouldn't be outwitted by a trilobite at risk. Its amazing the "intellectual" class never quite manages to figure that out.

Posted by: An Observation at February 09, 2013 10:47 AM (ylhEn)

152 Good point about the so-called educated elite as presidents. Reagan went to a community college! I miss him.

Posted by: Jmel at February 09, 2013 10:45 AM (9tSXa)

I've noticed a correlation between supposedly "Educated Genius" Presidents, and ordinary people as President.

The Geniuses are always trying to work angles on the system, and they usually fail to consider unintended consequences. I left out Abraham Lincoln because I didn't want to get another one of "those" conversations going, but Lincoln was considered a "Genius" President.
Reagan was never considered a "Genius", but I think he really was.

Calvin Coolidge presided over an Economic Miracle. What did he do? Mostly just mind his own business. Lincoln, Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, LBJ (a Teacher) Carter, Clinton, Obama. All "Genius" Presidents.A legacy of disaster in their wake.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:50 AM (bb5+k)

153 Krugman lurched at me. I punched him in his groinal area.

Posted by: Eleanor's Clit at February 09, 2013 10:50 AM (ypzqs)

154 America's only saving grace so far is that we hold the world's reserve currency, but I think we're within a decade or so of losing that distinction. Once that last firewall goes....
Posted by: Monty at February 09, 2013 10:39 AM (G8OwX)

This is why it's important to take the steps necessary while we are the ones calling the shots on world finance.

When a family is too far in debt and is facing upcoming expenses exceeding income, one of the options open to them is selling assets. If Exxon/Mobil were to sell their oil reserves, the calculation would take into account how much could be taken over decades. Our country has trillions in proven oil and gas reserves on federal land. All that it is needed is a mechanism to convert the long term assets into cash now.

Too bad J.G. Wentworth doesn't do deals this big. However, through the magic of being the sole superpower and the world's financial center, a new entity could be created to legitimize the conversion of long term assets into usable cash without the inflationary problems of just printing money.

Out of the box solutions are needed for problems like this. Think big.

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 10:52 AM (ZDsRL)

155 In shame, all doctors fled our Great and Innovative Nation never to return.


Posted by: Krugman Reports: A Brief History of Obamacare at February 09, 2013 10:52 AM (bGlsD)

156 All that it is needed is a mechanism to convert the long term assets into cash now.
---------------------------------------------------------
We need some sort of "Payday lending" institution, like a big "Money Store".

Posted by: Paul at February 09, 2013 10:55 AM (jucos)

157 We need some sort of "Payday lending" institution, like a big "Money Store".
Posted by: Paul at February 09, 2013 10:55 AM (jucos)

Not lending. As the ads say, "It's your money...why not use it now?"

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 10:56 AM (ZDsRL)

158
To the ignorant observer, i.e. the voter, it's you who looks crazy!

True, he'd try to play as Piers to Alex Jones. I don't think Teh Krug could handle a rational, calm refutation of his idiocy. I think the first time you challenged him on his "facts," he'd be the one frothing into insanity.

Leftards all tend towards the same psychopathy.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 10:58 AM (+z4pE)

159 Not lending. As the ads say, "It's your money...why not use it now?"
Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 10:56 AM (ZDsRL)


How about one of those loans you put against your car? The fleet of thousands of federally owned vehicles, that would be a big chunk of change. I bet we could buy some fuel rods for the Lincoln.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 10:59 AM (l86i3)

160 Interests rates are low, which is proof things are great and will stay great, because those interest rates could never rise or something. We're paying hundreds of billions on interest when it is at record lows, imagine what would happen if the economy did improve and interest rates returned to normal?

Artificially low interest rates lead to piss poor investments today and nothing to purchase good things with tomorrow. Love, Austrian Economics.

Posted by: Aaron at February 09, 2013 10:59 AM (Tlix5)

161 Modern politicians prefer deficit spending during both booms and recessions. If tax revenues increase during good times, hey, that's just more to spend.
Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 10:29 AM (sdi6R)



Keynes didn't take into account the need to pay off supporters, whether in a boom or a recession.

Posted by: every goddam Democrat ever at February 09, 2013 11:01 AM (PD2ad)

162 Seems our elites have decided to follow Japan's lead.

Posted by: Invictus at February 09, 2013 11:02 AM (OQpzc)

163 Newsweek, 29 April 2009: cover with Paul Krugman, and the title: "The Loyal Opposition".

This was a beautiful thing, if you are into propaganda. The term "loyal opposition" is British and it refers to dissent from a royal / prime-ministerial policy that is, still, loyal to the King and country.

At that time, the MSM was getting itself into a lather against Rush Limbaugh, who had said on air, "I hope he fails". So this contrasted Krugman (loyal) to Limbaugh (traitor). Newsweek wasn't quite saying that if you dissent with Obama, you must do it from the Left - but it is surely safest is you do so.

Oh, yeah. Krugman. No way in Hades is he "loyal"; not to the nation, not to truth, not to the whole human race.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 09, 2013 11:03 AM (QTHTd)

164 I left out Abraham Lincoln because I didn't want to
get another one of "those" conversations going, but Lincoln was
considered a "Genius" President.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 10:50 AM

If Lincoln was considered a "genius" it's a recent historical rewrite. In his own time the elite and powerful called him a backwoods idiot and "a baboon", and by members of his own cabinet no less

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 11:03 AM (mCvL4)

165 Yes, in his time Lincoln was reviled worse than GWB.

Posted by: real joe in blue state hell at February 09, 2013 11:05 AM (PD2ad)

166 Selling off the oil and gas assets on federal land (and offshore) for 72 trillion would pay off the national debt, fully fund converting social security into private retirement accounts, pay off all consumer debt, mortgages and student loans and leave enough to assure passage of a balanced budget amendment.

A nationwide reset that would restart the global economy, with the U.S. poised to reap the most benefits.

Sounds too good to be true, but why not?

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 11:05 AM (ZDsRL)

167 Keynes didn't take into account the need to pay off supporters, whether in a boom or a recession.

Almost every government has a need to pay off supporters. The only reason Joseph got away with Keynesianism in Genesis is because he was working for the Pharaoh of Egypt.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 09, 2013 11:06 AM (QTHTd)

168 Calling Krugman a poopy-head is all very entertaining and yes - he's a complete tool... But, it would be much more interesting and meaningful if you were to point out WHY you think he's wrong.

Nobody can even fathom what $16 trillion is. We keep saying the sky is falling - but we don't tell anybody why we think that. We need to boil down our reasons and present them ~reasonably~ and in a few paragraphs.

Does anybody here know why, specifically, a country as rich as ours has always been can't handle a $16 trillion debt?

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:06 AM (380tA)

169 O/T: hilarious and creepy all at the same time

http://tinyurl.com/b8ldmr5

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:06 AM (BBWjt)

170
Thank you, Monty. Brilliantly said.

Posted by: Fresh at February 09, 2013 11:06 AM (O7ksG)

171
Out of the box solutions are needed for problems like this. Think big.

Funny you should mention energy. TFG is postponing the Keystone Pipeline decision for another six months.

I'd prefer to see the Fed sell off all the land it owns, but only to American interests. And the one "outside the box" solution that we don't hear anyone advocating is loosening the restrictions on the economy imposed by Washington and using real growth to get us out of the mess we're in. Some enterprising group of people, like, say, one associated with a political party, could point out an example of such needless regulation. A good one would be the EPA and the Central Valley area, using some before and after pics of what once was a thriving Horn of Plenty, reduced to a wasteland thanks to the promotion of a useless fish we can't even eat over the needs of humans.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 11:07 AM (+z4pE)

172 Ignorant troll sighting. Nuke it from space.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:07 AM (l86i3)

173 You know, I was just wondering, maybe if someone said "Kim Kardashian" every 20 or 30 comments, some libidiots might find it in a search, come here and maybe, you know, actually learn something.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 11:07 AM (gS7S1)

174 Krugman loves to point out that dollars borrowed today can be paid off with devalued dollars tomorrow

It never occurs to him that the government will always borrow money, and will have to borrow at inflated rates

Krugman's point: borrow a dollar today, and you pay back with a dollar worth 25 cents in the future

I guess he figures socialism is so awesome that future treasuries won't have to borrow 4 dollars for what costs a dollar today

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 11:08 AM (mCvL4)

175 Does anybody here know why, specifically, a country as rich as ours has always been can't handle a $16 trillion debt?

The answer is unknown. No other nation has tried it before. But we are most certainly playing with fire.

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:08 AM (BBWjt)

176 Does anybody here know why, specifically, a country as rich as ours has always been can't handle a $16 trillion debt?


Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:06 AM (380tA)


The painfully obvious is considered Assumed Prior Knowledge here at the HQ.


Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:09 AM (DvVVN)

177 shit

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:09 AM (DvVVN)

178 I think the first time you challenged him on his "facts," he'd be the one frothing into insanity.

National Review had a "Krugman Truth Squad" which was always good for some lulz. A common source of lulz was when someone would ask the bearded poltroon a question and he'd sort of freeze up, on camera.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 09, 2013 11:10 AM (QTHTd)

179 "I'd prefer to see the Fed sell off all the land it owns, but only to American interests..."

The key to my proposal is the creation of a new entity - in the tradition of Freddy Mac - that "purchases" the assets and then sells them off over time (hundreds of years if necessary).

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 11:10 AM (ZDsRL)

180 The answer is unknown. No other nation has tried it before. But we are most certainly playing with fire.

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:08 AM (BBWjt)


I always liked the people that removed 9 zeros and pretended the country was a household. Correct, it didn't end well.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:10 AM (l86i3)

181 If Lincoln was considered a "genius" it's a recent
historical rewrite. In his own time the elite and powerful called him a
backwoods idiot and "a baboon", and by members of his own cabinet no
less



Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 11:03 AM (mCvL4)

Among some circles, no doubt. Not all. He gained the support of New York for his Presidential run primarily from a speech he gave there.

Read some of his speeches. The man WAS a Genius.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:10 AM (bb5+k)

182 173
You know, I was just wondering, maybe if someone said "Kim Kardashian"
every 20 or 30 comments, some libidiots might find it in a search, come
here and maybe, you know, actually learn something.



Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 11:07 AM

No, leftists believe that they're so brilliant that they know everything there is to know, therefore they learn nothing

Our daily trolls are a prime example

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 11:10 AM (mCvL4)

183 >>>"The painfully obvious is considered Assumed Prior Knowledge here at the HQ."
-Burn the Witch

So... you don't know either.

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:12 AM (380tA)

184 $16T is a problem because when interest levels rise from the historic lows, they will take up a much larger portion of our tax revenue. If we hit Carter-era interest levels (which is quite conceivable), then servicing the debt alone may require all of our tax revenue. Ask someone who spends every cent of post-tax income on paying just the interest on their mortgage and credit cards how that's working out for them, and you can understand why that would be a problem for the country at large.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:12 AM (FqcJu)

185 Conversation around the family kitchen table--"We will be bankrupt before Johnny gets to college. Let's buy a new Weber grill."

Posted by: J. at February 09, 2013 11:12 AM (MWjDw)

186 Does anybody here know why, specifically, a country as rich as ours has always been can't handle a $16 trillion debt?

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:06 AM (380tA)

Because the debt is NOT $16 trillion. The exact number is subject to speculation, but a common guess is that it is closer to $100 trillion.

There is NO money in the social security accounts. Current revenues are paying existing obligations, and the number of retirees coming online are going to smash the system wide open.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:13 AM (bb5+k)

187 164 kbdabear

If Lincoln was considered a "genius" it's a recent historical rewrite. In his own time the elite and powerful called him a backwoods idiot and "a baboon", and by members of his own cabinet no less


Yet he was largely self-taught, was well-read in the classics, and turned out to be one of the greatest wordsmiths in the entire history of the English language.

He stood so far above any of today's political figures that he may as well have been a member of an alien species.

As for "backwoods idiot", that sure reminds me of someone. Can't think of who she could be.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 11:14 AM (sdi6R)

188 "A common source of lulz was when someone would ask the bearded poltroon a question and he'd sort of freeze up, on camera."


I like the one where he canvassed the audience for Canadians and then asked them "Who doesn't like their healthcare system?" and pretty much most of their hands went up. He tried to laugh it off but failed miserably.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:14 AM (DvVVN)

189 Krugman loves to point out that dollars borrowed today can be paid off with devalued dollars tomorrow

Brilliant, the US should shaft itself, pay itself off in devalued currency. I'm sure that will work.

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2013 11:14 AM (FcR7P)

190 >>>"I always liked the people that removed 9 zeros and pretended the country was a household. Correct, it didn't end well."
-Oldsailors Poet

But - it's not a household and most people won't see it that way. And, anyway, I've been wildly in debt for years and climbed out just fine. So have lots of the "folks" out there.

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:15 AM (380tA)

191 So Ace - if you feel so strongly, why not go the final step and tell us what we're supposed to do about this?

Posted by: trump at February 09, 2013 11:15 AM (F8Lnm)

192 A good one would be the EPA and the Central Valley
area, using some before and after pics of what once was a thriving Horn
of Plenty, reduced to a wasteland thanks to the promotion of a useless
fish we can't even eat over the needs of humans.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 11:07 AM (+z4pE)

Great idea. Now how are you going to get it on the Hostile media channels?

Nothing will work as long as the Liberal Democrat Union Members from New York and Los Angeles won't let you get your ideas on the broadcast system.

They have a monopoly which must be broken, or you won't ever be able to fix anything.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:16 AM (bb5+k)

193 There is NO money in the social security accounts. Current revenues are paying existing obligations, and the number of retirees coming online are going to smash the system wide open.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:13 AM (bb5+k)


Don't forget the Chinese with their new Africa expansionist policies, the russians sabre rattling with their narcissistic sociopathic leader and a couple billion people in the middle east, leaderless and completly out of control that all want to see us dead. We can't put fuel in one of our carriers? Hmm. Maybe ma can put the credit card away so pa can buy a new AR.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:17 AM (l86i3)

194 I got through the first few comments below Crud Man's opus.

You cannot reason with lunacy

For example:

"Ironically, it was “weaponized Keynesianism” that got us out of the Great Depression in 1942."

No asshole, it was being the last man standing in a global conflict similar to a steel cage match. That's what got us out of the great depression.


Posted by: ironbill at February 09, 2013 11:17 AM (Q+4Zh)

195 "So... you don't know either.


Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:12 AM (380tA)"



We consider things like the ability to add and subtract to be Assumed Prior Knowledge. You've come to the wrong place to learn that.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:18 AM (DvVVN)

196 "...thanks to the promotion of a useless fish we can't even eat over the needs of humans."

I have a family next door who are part of the "grassroots" of the left. They believe at their core that animals are more important than humans.
Baby murder = good.
Killing (in our area it's the snail darter minnow) = bad.

The powers that be use this view as one of their "means to an end." Total control.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 11:18 AM (B5s0p)

197 $16T is a problem because when interest levels rise
from the historic lows, they will take up a much larger portion of our
tax revenue. If we hit Carter-era interest levels (which is quite
conceivable), then servicing the debt alone may require all of our tax
revenue. Ask someone who spends every cent of post-tax income on paying
just the interest on their mortgage and credit cards how that's working
out for them, and you can understand why that would be a problem for the
country at large.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:12 AM (FqcJu)

I believe that the only reason interest rates are currently low is because they are being held down by the Fed. They are held down because to allow them to float would be an immediate disaster.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:19 AM (bb5+k)

198 The problem with most people is that they have been shielded from directly experiencing the consequences of their own stupidity. When that happens you can be stupid forever.

I was fortunate enough (if you can call it that) to have traveled widely in the USSR before the collapse. I can testify to the hardship, the rationing, the shortages of the most common items such as toilet paper, the complete lack of incentive of the part of the subjects (not citizens) to better their lot in life except by corrupt means, which are the only means in that system.

Posted by: navybrat at February 09, 2013 11:19 AM (5ClqG)

199 Conservative Crank, I'm pretty sure that we would *already* have hit Carter-style interest rates if the system weren't irreparably broken. Rates then were part of what led to people seeing the consequences of their choices and acting to change. Current rates hide the cost of borrowing as well as reducing incentive to lend. I don't see any way to fix it without a full-system reset at this point, particularly since too many don't believe it *needs* fixed.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, assault Hobbit at February 09, 2013 11:19 AM (wbeNt)

200 OT. NPR has apparently forgotten who the CiC of the US military and CIAis. Over 5 minutes of "analysis" this morning on the drone war memo, and not a single utterance of the name "Obama". Just fucking amazing, the gall of these assholes - theyhave gotten so good at it that they are now even fooling themselves.

Posted by: sherlock at February 09, 2013 11:21 AM (qIFL7)

201
As for "backwoods idiot", that sure reminds me of someone. Can't think of who she could be.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 11:14 AM (sdi6R)

Obviously you have someone in mind or you would not have referred to someone as a "she." In the rules of English, when gender is unknown, the default is "he".

Now to whom might you be referring?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:22 AM (bb5+k)

202 But - it's not a household and most people won't see it that way. And, anyway, I've been wildly in debt for years and climbed out just fine. So have lots of the "folks" out there.
Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:15 AM (380tA)

So you were millions of dollars in debt, made 50K a year with 75K of living expenses and paid it all off. My oh My, you are one brilliant son of a bitch.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:22 AM (l86i3)

203 Bravo to fyscyl clyff for climbing out of debt. I'm going to wager it was done by cutting costs and possibly increasing income--unless a credit agency or bankruptcy was involved, in which case, it has sh*t to do with the government's problem, because those debts cannot be wiped away by accounting tricks and court orders. There is no Great-Uncle Sugar to bail out Uncle Sugar.

So, the government has to cut costs (which last happened under Coolidge? I think) and increase income--which historically cannot be achieved by increasing marginal tax rates. fyscyl clyff assures us this is not a problem. Please, show your work to back up that claim.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:22 AM (FqcJu)

204 Yeah, what DL said more quickly than I managed.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, assault Hobbit at February 09, 2013 11:23 AM (wbeNt)

205
They have a monopoly which must be broken, or you won't ever be able to fix anything.

Agreed, although Sean Hannity did a special on that a while back. It must be hammered continuously, IMO. And you know those directly affected understand the problem well.

Maybe if you could tie that into the rising price of groceries, it might come to the attention of LIV's in between episodes of American Idol.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 11:23 AM (+z4pE)

206
But - it's not a household and most people won't
see it that way. And, anyway, I've been wildly in debt for years and
climbed out just fine. So have lots of the "folks" out there.

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:15 AM (380tA)

Yes, the cat who survived the flood is telling the rest of us who sought higher ground, that the flood was not so bad.

No thanks. A lot of cats don't survive the flood.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:24 AM (bb5+k)

207 Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:09 AM (DvVVN)

That will be one internet, sir. Luckily for you, we will not have to unseal the barrel for this one.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 09, 2013 11:24 AM (QTHTd)

208 The "she" is an obvious referral to Palin, when read in context.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:24 AM (FqcJu)

209 194
No asshole, it was being the last man standing in a global conflict similar to a steel cage match. That's what got us out of the great depression.

Posted by: ironbill at February 09, 2013 11:17 AM (Q+4Zh)


The United States enjoyed an economic boom in the 1950s because every other country's industrial base had been bombed to rubble in WWII. For a while, we were literally the only game in town.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 11:25 AM (sdi6R)

210 So you were millions of dollars in debt, made 50K a year with 75K of living expenses and paid it all off. My oh My, you are one brilliant son of a bitch.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:22 AM (l86i3)

Maybe he inherited some assets and sold them off?

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 11:25 AM (ZDsRL)

211 I have a family next door who are part of the "grassroots" of the left.

Give their cat a snail darter minnow to eat. Film. Call in the Feds.

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2013 11:25 AM (FcR7P)

212 Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:15 AM (380tA)


I know you're a troll and all, but it's little gems like:


"It's not a household..."


and then offering an anecdote about your household that are pure troll genius.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:25 AM (DvVVN)

213 Mr. Krugman?.....How do economies work????...Yayyyyyyyyy!!!

Posted by: Corky the Retard at February 09, 2013 11:26 AM (VV7s1)

214 211 I have a family next door who are part of the "grassroots" of the left. Give their cat a snail darter minnow to eat. Film. Call in the Feds.
Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2013 11:25 AM (FcR7P)

Cut, jib, etc.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:26 AM (FqcJu)

215 Don't forget the Chinese with their new Africa
expansionist policies, the russians sabre rattling with their
narcissistic sociopathic leader and a couple billion people in the
middle east, leaderless and completly out of control that all want to
see us dead. We can't put fuel in one of our carriers? Hmm. Maybe ma can
put the credit card away so pa can buy a new AR.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:17 AM (l86i3)

Crashing the Defense system is a feature, not a bug. (To these people.) These Communist "one worlders" won't mind help from occupying forces.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:26 AM (bb5+k)

216 But - it's not a household and most people won't see
it that way. And, anyway, I've been wildly in debt for years and
climbed out just fine. So have lots of the "folks" out there.

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:15 AM

I climbed out of my Chevy Tahoe in Mexico before the repo guys got it, and I never intended to pay that don't ask don't tell mortgage in San Bernardino anyway

Posted by: Illegal who walked out of his house at February 09, 2013 11:27 AM (mCvL4)

217
Crashing the Defense system is a feature, not a bug. (To these people.) These Communist "one worlders" won't mind help from occupying forces.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:26 AM (bb5+k)


Gee, that matches up perfectly with the push for gun control.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:27 AM (l86i3)

218 But - it's not a household

You're right, it's not a household. It's more like an entire dysfunctional family.

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:28 AM (BBWjt)

219 The problem with most people is that they have been
shielded from directly experiencing the consequences of their own
stupidity. When that happens you can be stupid forever.




Posted by: navybrat at February 09, 2013 11:19 AM (5ClqG)


Absolutely. And it is the notion that they will wake up once their shielding is removed that promotes a large portion of the "let it burn" mindset taking hold amongst many of us.

The burned hand teaches.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:29 AM (bb5+k)

220 >>>"fyscyl clyff assures us this is not a problem. Please, show your work to back up that claim."
-Conservative Crank

I tend to agree that it's a huge problem, and for the same reasons you guys are saying. I'm just trying to find a way to package it for the "folks".

But, truth is - no one really knows that it will be the massive problem we think it will. We owe shitloads. Ok - who do we owe? And if America takes a dive, will our debtors not go right down with us? How can they collect, really?


Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:29 AM (380tA)

221 The United States enjoyed an economic boom in the 1950s

and note well the elapsed time between 1929 and 1952. Pretty bad when your best-case scenario for Obammunism requires the destruction of Europe.

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2013 11:29 AM (FcR7P)

222 "That will be one internet, sir. Luckily for you, we will not have to unseal the barrel for this one.


Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 09, 2013 11:24 AM (QTHTd)"



I thought I could avoid the barrel if I'm the one who corrected it!! Fuuuuuu....

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:29 AM (DvVVN)

223 @152 Coolidge was book-smart as a whip, though. His Latin was impeccable, and he was even better at Italian. Translated all of Dante, with commentaries. He didn't leave things alone because he couldn't figure them out. He knew that they had to be left alone.

Out of character, he sent Bernard Baruch and a portfolio of private loan guarantees to stabilize the economy in Germany. At the time, it appeared he had succeeded, and it was hailed as a miracle. Nice try. Not something you think of with Cal.

Posted by: comatus at February 09, 2013 11:30 AM (qaVK+)

224 Pretty bad when your best-case scenario for Obammunism requires the destruction of Europe.

feature, not bug

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:30 AM (BBWjt)

225
Even if we can borrow more cheaply than any time in recent history, borrowing is still costing us money. And that interest alone is eating up significant portions of our budget.
Hell, at this point we're basically borrowing money to pay for the interest on our borrowed money. I believe that's how you end up having your knees shot.

Posted by: tsrblke at February 09, 2013 11:31 AM (GaqMa)

226 That rant was beautiful!

*wipes a tear*

Posted by: Fritz at February 09, 2013 11:32 AM (WM+rJ)

227 So let's review...
the same people who lecture us about our "unsustainable" dependence on fossil fuels, has absolutely no problem relying on an "unsustainable" economic model based on debt and artificially low interest rates

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:32 AM (BBWjt)

228 The United States enjoyed an economic boom in the
1950s because every other country's industrial base had been bombed to
rubble in WWII. For a while, we were literally the only game in town.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 11:25 AM

No, it was because the rich paid 90 percent income tax rates and the brilliant academics who ran the government knew better how to spend the money. Also, unions were powerful and the workers were paid so much they bought lots of stuff

The war did cause a shortage of Jews for a while, that kind of sucked.

Posted by: Paul Krugman, Super Genius at February 09, 2013 11:33 AM (mCvL4)

229 These communist "one worlders" won't mind help from occupying forces.

Insert George HW Bush's new world order quote here.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 11:33 AM (hDena)

230 Joyriding is what gets your knees shot. I think the borrowed for interest tends to end up with ruptured spleen.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:34 AM (FqcJu)

231 and then offering an anecdote about your household that are pure troll genius.

And by "pure troll genius" we mean "absolute non sequitur".

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 09, 2013 11:35 AM (Q719M)

232
So you were millions of dollars in debt, made
50K a year with 75K of living expenses and paid it all off. My oh My,
you are one brilliant son of a bitch.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:22 AM (l86i3)

The "Family Budget" example of which you speak is a pretty accurate analogy for the situation we are in. FedGov revenue appears to be about 2.7 trillion dollars for 2012, Debt is 16.5 trillion currently.

About five times their total yearly income. Pretty steep hole to climb out of, and doesn't even take into account that real Federal Obligations are closer to 100 trillion dollars.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:35 AM (bb5+k)

233 We can get fat on tomorrow's seed corn today!

Posted by: Keynes at February 09, 2013 11:35 AM (MMC8r)

234
Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:29 AM (380tA)

Well contrary to what the media tells you the vast majority of US debt is held by US citizens.
Not all, but most.
I think China is next.
So if we go under, the bonds owned by US citizens become nothing, which is generally bad for the economy (as your wealth just evaporated.)
Also since many people's retirement plans at this point started investing in bonds, those will evaporate, at roughly the same time Social Security goes under.
And then there's China, who owns enough of our debt and could leverage payment by doing a few things: 1) ending trade (we've become reliant on cheap shit, so that'd be bad) 2) war (unlikely but possible.)
And we haven't even gotten to tertiary holders yet.

Posted by: tsrblke at February 09, 2013 11:36 AM (GaqMa)

235 I don't see how this can be maintained for much longer.

We have low interest rates because the Fed is buying up most of the debt, so the actual interest rate is not what the true market-based interest rate would be.

Even though the Fed is buying up most of the debt (aka monetizing the debt), official inflation remains low. Real inflation is higher, but it is still not hyperinflation-like levels.

What will be the trigger that sends it all over the edge?

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:36 AM (BBWjt)

236 221
The United States enjoyed an economic boom in the 1950s



and note well the elapsed time between 1929 and 1952. Pretty bad
when your best-case scenario for Obammunism requires the destruction of
Europe.

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2013 11:29 AM

They're just a bunch of bitter white people clinging to their Scheissporn anyway

Posted by: King Barry the Omelet Chef at February 09, 2013 11:36 AM (mCvL4)

237 >>>"and then offering an anecdote about your household that are pure troll genius."
-some witch

How is that non-sequitur? It's totally sequitur.

People don't see it as a household - but even if they did - it wouldn't matter.

See complete sequitur.
doofus.

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:37 AM (380tA)

238 >>>>Does anybody here know why, specifically, a country as rich as ours has always been can't handle a $16 trillion debt?<<<<<

Rampant unemployment, anemic to negative economic growth, and ultimately hyper inflation and guillotines (read "Citizens" for a preview).

Ask not for whom the tumbrel rolls, it rolls for thee.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2013 11:38 AM (KAWvv)

239 cj, I believe the (likely) trigger will be a "limited" regional nuclear exchange involving a couple of countries that start with the letter "I".

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:38 AM (FqcJu)

240
Maybe if you could tie that into the rising
price of groceries, it might come to the attention of LIV's in between
episodes of American Idol.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 09, 2013 11:23 AM (+z4pE)

Television has become the opiate of the masses. The people who run the broadcasting systems do not act like it is a serious problem, so why should anyone who watches television (the bulk of the nation) think there is any sort of serious problem?

They are drugging us into stupidity with their mindless entertainment and incomplete news.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:38 AM (bb5+k)

241 "How can they collect, really?"

That is their end game. By owning you and everything you currently own. A boot on the face of humanity forever.
And you will kneel in worship as they drive by if you wish to continue to live.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 11:41 AM (SYS+p)

242 The "she" is an obvious referral to Palin, when read in context.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:24 AM (FqcJu)

This is what I suspect, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he is indeed talking about Palin, I want him to spit it out so we can go straight to the hammer and tongs.

In what Delusional Universe is the current jackass superior to Sarah Palin?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:41 AM (bb5+k)

243 I made the mistake of opening the comments on that linked pile of Krugman dung, hoping to see hundreds of comments similar to Monty's, putting that asscracker in his place.

Nope.

Its hundreds of comments agreeing with him, continuing to blame the Republicans illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for getting us all into this fiscal mess.

Let that winter storm bury that fucking city.

Posted by: Hudson21 at February 09, 2013 11:41 AM (uSuzr)

244 The United States enjoyed an economic boom in the
1950s because every other country's industrial base had been bombed to
rubble in WWII. For a while, we were literally the only game in town.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 11:25 AM

There were a few steep recessions in the 1950's

7/53 to 5/54 - peak GDP drop -2.6

8/57 to 4/58 - peak GDP drop -3.7

Posted by: King Barry the Omelet Chef at February 09, 2013 11:42 AM (mCvL4)

245
Gee, that matches up perfectly with the push for gun control.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on KINDLE finally at February 09, 2013 11:27 AM (l86i3)


If you suggest any harmless motives to these people, you aren't doing your analysis right.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:43 AM (bb5+k)

246 239
cj, I believe the (likely) trigger will be a "limited" regional nuclear
exchange involving a couple of countries that start with the letter "I".

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:38 AM (FqcJu)

Iceland?
Italy?
Ireland?
Indonesia?
India?
Isle of Man?
Hmm, can't quite grasp what you're getting at...

Posted by: chemjeff at February 09, 2013 11:44 AM (BBWjt)

247 There were a few steep recessions in the 1950's

7/53 to 5/54 - peak GDP drop -2.6

8/57 to 4/58 - peak GDP drop -3.7

Let's also add in a few recessions at the edges;

11/48 to 10/49 - peak GDP drop -1.7

4/60 to 2/61 - peak GDP drop -1.6

Note on the 1960-1961 recession; JFK enacted TAX CUTS to speed the recovery. He'd never get nominated as a Democrat today




Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2013 11:46 AM (mCvL4)

248
I don't see how this can be maintained for much longer.

We have low interest rates because the Fed is buying up most of the debt, so the actual interest rate is not what the true market-based interest rate would be.

Even though the Fed is buying up most of the debt (aka monetizing the debt), official inflation remains low. Real inflation is higher, but it is still not hyperinflation-like levels.

What will be the trigger that sends it all over the edge?


I think it bears noting a few things. The fed is monetizing the debt, but inflation is staying low because much of the QE money actually hasn't hit the economy yet. Why? Most likely a combination of 2 things 1) Dodd Frank Capital requirements and 2) Uncertainty.
The former is causing the banks to hold onto the magic money put in by QE[whatever] rather than push it into the economy (as was intended.) The latter means that once the government spending being hits an organization large enough to pack it into savings it stays there effectively being removed from the economy. (The same is more or less true for any spending frankly, people and companies are holding what money they can out of sheer uncertainty.)
So the trigger that pushes us over in this case is an end to the uncertainty (or a repeal of Dodd Frank.) While we're not seeing the economy improve, we also aren't seeing the hyper-inflation we should be seeing. This presents a catch-22 of course. We can limp along barely surviving as an economy, or we can hope the damn breaks the economy turns around and the flood of money that was introduced (but has stayed off the field) causes us to see insane inflation levels not seen since Carter (or even worse.)

Posted by: tsrblke at February 09, 2013 11:46 AM (GaqMa)

249 Krugman is a mutated retard Keynesian....

Krugamn refuses to grasp that the Fed is artificially holding rates down and has been BECAUSE of the fucking Pork Cannon and as such is horribly undermining personal thrift getting its gain.

Krugamn is just a hand in the circlejerk set up between the Socialist/Infotainment/Academic complex that is wrecking liberty in this nation.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 11:47 AM (LRFds)

250
But, truth is - no one really knows that it will
be the massive problem we think it will. We owe shitloads. Ok - who do
we owe? And if America takes a dive, will our debtors not go right down
with us? How can they collect, really?







Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:29 AM (380tA)

I very much doubt our economic system will be improved by introducing debt chaos. We went through a relatively mild economic storm in 1929, and I fully believe we will weather another one in far worse shape and with far greater dangerous consequences.

I think inflation will go rampant, and people will not be able to buy food quickly enough to keep up with inflation. (As is currently occurring in Argentina)

Economic disasters lead to real violence and death.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:47 AM (bb5+k)

251 Let's say we China $10 trillion.
They want it now. "Pay up", they say.

"No." We say.

Now what?

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:47 AM (380tA)

252 Oh well spoken, kbda. I got sick of hearing about the booming fifties before I even started college. The fifties were not a boom for my family or its business, just saying, and we knew lots and lots of people who were just getting by. There was a LAND WAR with CHINA that takes a lot of overlookin, it didn't exactly go our way, and we could hardly print money fast enough to keep up with the Air Force and Navy, good as those investments look now in retrospect.

It was not a richer and simpler time. There was plenty to worry about, and most of the nightmares came true.

Posted by: comatus at February 09, 2013 11:49 AM (qaVK+)

253 I think you might want to check your sarcasm meter on the Palin thing DL.
Pretty sure that came from, like me, a "fan" of Mrs. Palin.
I could be wrong of course.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 11:50 AM (1CULz)

254
Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:47 AM (380tA)
"Then consider trade relations closed." (At best)
You taken a look at your clothes lately?
At medium "Fine then we embargo your ships leaving Taiwan" (See above.)
At worst: "Hey did you remember we have weapons and army too?"

Posted by: tsrblke at February 09, 2013 11:51 AM (GaqMa)

255 251 Fyscyl Cliff,

China sells off all its holding of our bonds for ridiculously low prices China and other Creditor nations then undermine restabilization of value of currency. Oh it is also recognized as a formal Noble Casus belli in international law.....meaning China can declare open war on us and suffer no reproach from the world at large....

Enjoy the orgasm from the Chinese and Japanese being told to fuck off, because we also have told the UK and ourselves to fuck off along with the fed.

The Federal Govt in that circumstance SHOULD fall if the populace is moral, BUT in this era I doubt it.

The US govt is responsible for this mess along with the media and the people....

EPA and minimum wage coupled with disability being the new national sport and the Ponzi schemes are what keep us from having a healthy economy.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 11:53 AM (LRFds)

256 242 The "she" is an obvious referral to Palin, when read in context.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at February 09, 2013 11:24 AM (FqcJu)

This is what I suspect, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he is indeed talking about Palin, I want him to spit it out so we can go straight to the hammer and tongs.

In what Delusional Universe is the current jackass superior to Sarah Palin?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:41 AM (bb5+k)


I thought she wasn't supposed to be named, according to the AoSHQ Style Guide.

But yeah, Lincoln was definitely thought of as a backwoods idiot by the Eastern urban elites in his own time. As is Sarah in our time. While she's certainly not a Lincoln-caliber wordsmith (nobody alive is), I believe that she's a whole lot more intelligent than her detractors give her credit for.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 11:54 AM (sdi6R)

257 I think you might want to check your sarcasm meter on the Palin thing DL.

Pretty sure that came from, like me, a "fan" of Mrs. Palin.

I could be wrong of course.

Posted by: teej at February 09, 2013 11:50 AM (1CULz)

Eh, sometimes I miss sarcasm. I see too many insane things said in all seriousness by people. Nowadays I can't tell sincere (and crazy) opinions from jokes.






Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:55 AM (bb5+k)

258 We are not all Keynesians now; I am not and never have been, yet every once in a while his name gets used so vainly I have to almost defend him. Most of what Keynes gets blamed for is follow-on Keynesianism, or Keynes' disciples, what have you. He finally changed his mind and repudiated the whole thing.

Here is the big Keynes thing: during a really bad time in England in the 20's, the government was setting up bread and soup lines. Keynes's big idea was to set up make-work projects instead, to keep them in the habit of working instead of standing in line. The deficit needed to pay for those was supposed to be skimmed off the top of the next up-turn. When you look what was made of that, you almost feel like saying "poor old Keynes."

Posted by: comatus at February 09, 2013 11:56 AM (qaVK+)

259 You guys realize you're casting pearls re: FC right?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 11:56 AM (DvVVN)

260 254 TSRBike,

China then goes to Opec and says,

"you see those cocksuckers why are you using them as the petro currency they suck and don't pay their fucking bills......"

Opec then decides whether we need to be Internationalism's reserve currency at that point...Nato is Opec's #1 client...Nato states then suffer economic pressure to tack their economy to the Yuan subtly....meaning we lose control of the valuation of our export markets....

the current Leftist political/economic scchools of thought are not ruthless enough to deal with losing our place at the top of the mountain...

we'll lose a lot of goods from overseas, but we can more than feed ourselves....we'll fall behind the rest of the world R+D wise while we spend 80 years reimporting manufacturing and resource exploitation economies again.
It is not sensible stuff to tread lightly....

At the end of the day I fear this last cycle America chose to blow its brains out.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 11:58 AM (LRFds)

261 But yeah, Lincoln was definitely thought of as a
backwoods idiot by the Eastern urban elites in his own time. As is
Sarah in our time. While she's certainly not a Lincoln-caliber
wordsmith (nobody alive is), I believe that she's a whole lot more
intelligent than her detractors give her credit for.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 11:54 AM (sdi6R)


One thing that New York and Boston elites are good at is regarding everyone but themselves as "backwoods idiots." They fail to realize that they owe much of their prosperity to their geography, and not so much to their own brilliance.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:58 AM (bb5+k)

262 How is that non-sequitur? It's totally sequitur. People don't see it as a household - but even if they did - it wouldn't matter. See complete sequitur. doofus.

Not only are you unable to perform simple math calculations, you also cannot use a dictionary.

You're a logical mess, and you should probably familiarize yourself with all 42 possible logical fallacies before you beclown yourself anymore. So far in this thread you've committed 5, and counting.

Oh, and genius? The term "sequitur" as you've used it in that context makes no sense. None. Pro-tip: understand the Latin root before you try to spit it back.

You're clearly a product of the modern public education system.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 09, 2013 11:58 AM (Q719M)

263 Here is the big Keynes thing: during a really bad
time in England in the 20's, the government was setting up bread and
soup lines. Keynes's big idea was to set up make-work projects instead,
to keep them in the habit of working instead of standing in line. The
deficit needed to pay for those was supposed to be skimmed off the top
of the next up-turn. When you look what was made of that, you almost
feel like saying "poor old Keynes."


Posted by: comatus at February 09, 2013 11:56 AM (qaVK+)


Exactly. Keynes ideas were not as stupid as the current crop who are claiming him as their Patron Saint.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:59 AM (bb5+k)

264 @257 DL, I feel for you on that. Not long ago someone said something really stupid about David Mamet; I corrected it and got sent to the hardware store for irony. Irony is harder to detect as our level of eloquence here has decreased precipitously. I put that down to the English majors all starving to death.

Posted by: comatus at February 09, 2013 12:00 PM (qaVK+)

265 I would love to stay and chat longer, but I have real world responsibilities to which I ought to attend, so I will see everyone later.


DL

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 12:01 PM (bb5+k)

266 OT:
My driveway's being cleared by solar power! Yay!

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 12:02 PM (sdi6R)

267 @262 Bannion, deponents are hard. You're asking a lot.

Posted by: comatus at February 09, 2013 12:02 PM (qaVK+)

268
About five times their total yearly income. Pretty
steep hole to climb out of, and doesn't even take into account that real
Federal Obligations are closer to 100 trillion dollars.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 09, 2013 11:35 AM (bb5+k)


If your talking about un-funded liabilities then your talking more like:
$122,000,000,000,000.

Posted by: YIKES! at February 09, 2013 12:03 PM (mETGQ)

269 263 Diogenes Lamp,

yes they were...

Let's not quibble Keynes ideas were not as destructive as modern interpretations of his theory appear but he still gave in to the narcissism that concentrated decision making and regulation of industrial development was less risky that a dynamic distributed pain led drive for solution by many independent actors.

My example of the differences between Keynes and Hayek on building a municipal pool are real.

There is no penalty or or pain based stimuli on the "Super economy decider" for government in the sense that private economic control has.

I trust every man to judge his own environment better than I trust one man or set of men to judge 300,000,000 men's situation

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 12:03 PM (LRFds)

270 I put that down to the English majors all starving to death.

They don't spend time with literature anymore, they spend all their time with Foucault and Derrida, and then wonder why they can't get a job.

I hired an English major for an analytical position a while back. My point to her was that I could teach her the statistics, but I didn't have time to teach her how to clearly explain the results of the analysis process, I needed someone who could already write, and and English degree from a very good liberal arts college was a good indicator.

Boy was I wrong. I had to let her go after 9 months because I just didn't have the time to edit her attempts at writing anymore.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 09, 2013 12:05 PM (Q719M)

271 "China then goes to Opec and says,"you see those cocksuckers why are you using them as the petro currency they suck and don't pay their fucking bills......"

This would be a problem for people who dwell on the cash flow statement for the U.S., but not for those who look at the balance sheet.

The U.S. has a number of major assets. The top two are our energy assets on federal land and offshore and our military.

In a scenario where we're defaulting on global debt, the U.S. could always send bills to the other countries on the planet for the protection provided by our military. Since we run the financial systems, we would tell them not to bother writing a check, we'll just deduct it from their accounts.

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 12:06 PM (ZDsRL)

272 257
Eh, sometimes I miss sarcasm. I see too many insane things said in all seriousness by people. Nowadays I can't tell sincere (and crazy) opinions from jokes.


No problem, DL. That's why the /sarc tag was invented. I was probably being too clever for my own good in my earlier comment.

Posted by: rickl at February 09, 2013 12:06 PM (sdi6R)

273 Comatus,

I grant Keynes the shielding that his ideas had not been tried in the capitalist age at that point and he was not malignant in motivation unlike the modern actors....

That's about the limit, the nations that resisted the Keynesian age recovered quickly such as Finland and Canada.

Keynes also caused the Great Depression by motivating England to try to resume the Gold standard at a discount that the Strong fed was stupid enough to grant....

There's no free lunch....not even for nations.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 12:06 PM (LRFds)

274 271 JWest,

I don't think it'd work that way. You are correct if *we* were incontrol of the seat of power yes you could likely make good on a default through balls and cunning...

*we* are not in charge bud.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 12:07 PM (LRFds)

275 *we* are not in charge bud.

As you've seen with the JEF and national security, when it comes down to it, he and his freinds don't mind changing to our way of thinking if that is what it takes.

When the financial shit hits the fan, liberals would be more than happy to embrace imperialism and mafia-inspired protection rackets if that would keep them in power.

Posted by: jwest at February 09, 2013 12:11 PM (ZDsRL)

276 275 Jwest,

You make the mistake of thinking he gives a shit about US power.

I don't labor under that illusion if he were to lose personal power by appeasing his retard base yes he will act like Bush....

he is at heart an anti-American internationalist....

he'd have a hard on lasting more than 4 hours when we lose the petro dollar status.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 12:13 PM (LRFds)

277 >>>"Oh, and genius? The term "sequitur" as you've used it in that context makes no sense. None. Pro-tip: understand the Latin root before you try to spit it back."
- Sean Bannion

Wow. I think you're serious..
So, my phrase "totally sequitur" is not the correct latin?!
Who knew?

Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 12:14 PM (380tA)

278 So, my phrase "totally sequitur" is not the correct latin?!
Who knew?


No, the point was that you didnt understand the meaning of the root at all. Not that the clause wasn't in Latin. That was the point.

I understand why you didn't grasp it though, because you are dumber than a pound of cum.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 09, 2013 12:20 PM (Q719M)

279 How much lost growth is there for money which is tied up in US debt rather than invested in industry? This isn't economically neutral, it robs the future in several different ways.

Posted by: dave_mears at February 09, 2013 12:22 PM (wmzCM)

280
"But aren’t we facing a fiscal crisis? No, not at all. The federal government can borrow more..."

Ah yes. The magic words that make debt go away.
Try that at your local bank.

Posted by: harleycowboy at February 09, 2013 12:23 PM (+9AX9)

281 280 harleycowboy,

If the right set up the seeds for "lawfare" like the mules did in the 50s and 60s we could engage in counterfeiting and then use the court case to destroy the government....

"I'm just following Dr. Krugman's guidelines..."

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 12:24 PM (LRFds)

282 We need some reinforcements. Could anyone go over and try to knock some sense into the heads of liberals who are posting articles about how great socialism is.
It's a Syracuse forum and you need to register (but you don't have to put real information) and you don't have to be from Syracuse or even CNY to post there:

http://www.syracuse.com/forums/nationalpolitics/index.ssf?initial=true

Posted by: AgainAuastennovels at February 09, 2013 12:24 PM (PxYrx)

283
"But aren’t we facing a fiscal crisis? No, not at all.
Yes, there’s a long-term fiscal problem,"

Make up your mind you lying f***er.

Posted by: harleycowboy at February 09, 2013 12:27 PM (+9AX9)

284 Late to the party on this thread, I realize ...


Crisis? What Crisis?

Not just the title of an excellent anti-Krugman rant by Monty, but also the title of one of my favorite rock albums from the days of my yoot. The album cover itself
http://tinyurl.com/yq68gv
is a pictorial summary of Monty's rant.

That would be Mr. Krugman there in the beach chair.

Posted by: crisis du jour at February 09, 2013 12:31 PM (DFGPG)

285 Krugman thinks that getting people back to work is the most important thing. But others, real capitalists, who believe that themost important thing is the accumulation and preservation of capital, look at the Dow doubling and feel that the reduction in labor costs and the resulting record profits that companies are posting is what really matters.

Posted by: occam at February 09, 2013 12:41 PM (C5YiJ)

286 YES. The government CAN borrow more cheaply now.

They just take a "loan" from the Treasury, who then orders the Federal Reserve to electronically print more currency to cover this "loan".

Much easier than having to pay off those pesky investors who insist on interest and being compensated for risk.

Zimbabwe could never possible happen here!

( sarcasm mode off now. )

Posted by: Kristophr at February 09, 2013 12:43 PM (wYVte)

287 Posted by: AgainAuastennovels at February 09, 2013 12:24 PM (PxYrx)


Sorry dude, that comments section of the NYT turned me off to arguing with idiots for the day.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 12:46 PM (DvVVN)

288
Paul Krugman has far and away exceeded all of my expectations.

Posted by: The Peter Principle at February 09, 2013 12:52 PM (vbh31)

289
When you think about it, if it weren't for me, liberals would never rise much above the position of restroom attendant.

Posted by: The Peter Principle at February 09, 2013 01:01 PM (vbh31)

290
Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 11:58 AM (LRFds)

Howsthat now? I'm still on cup of coffee #1.
My point was, china could in fact make our lives miserable. I think you agree, HOW they do it (and whether it remains miserable forever or we bounce back) is really of no concern to the argument at hand.

Posted by: tsrblke at February 09, 2013 01:03 PM (GaqMa)

291 When you think about it, if it weren't for me, liberals would never rise much above the position of restroom attendant.

Pal, your exploits pale in comparison to mine.

Posted by: Affirmative Action at February 09, 2013 01:07 PM (vbh31)

292 Posted by: fyscyl clyff at February 09, 2013 11:12 AM (380tA)

Not only do you have to pay the interest on the debt, you have to pay the principle, the amount that was borrowed. If you are always borrowing to meet day-to-day obligations, how do you ever pay off any of the principle?

The answer is you don't - you keep piling up the debt. And when lenders get wary about loaning to you because they get concerned they will never get their principle payments because you can't?

Then you got problems. See: Greece, or Argentina.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - there on Thunder Island! at February 09, 2013 01:15 PM (gmoEG)

293 290 TSRBike,

I agree China gets moral validation for their anti-US activities at that point...people underestimate how much of our beating the Soviets was based on the moral implosion of the perceived validity of the Soviets...

couple that with the failure in 'ghani and *poof*

gone.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 09, 2013 01:18 PM (LRFds)

294 "And when lenders get wary about loaning to you because they get concerned they will never get their principle payments because you can't?"


That's the surreal thing about it - we're lending to ourselves at this point. What could go wrong?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2013 01:19 PM (DvVVN)

295 Seems to me that borrowing costs are low because we are borrowing from OURSELVES!

Posted by: PJ at February 09, 2013 01:34 PM (ZWaLo)

296 #294:

I was trying to keep it simple for the simpleton.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - there on Thunder Island! at February 09, 2013 01:36 PM (gmoEG)

297 printing money in this digital age is keep, huh Paul

Posted by: talgus at February 09, 2013 01:38 PM (p0vke)

298 I was afraid that if Romney won, the Fed would adjust interests rates to what they really should be. It would have sent the economy into a tailspin. They really do have to raise them at some point, so maybe they are waiting for Hillary in 2016.

Posted by: Chilin the most at February 09, 2013 01:46 PM (6IV8T)

299 These are the words of a man bent on suicide.



Paulie should commit suicide because he looks like he smells like a month old cat litter box.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 09, 2013 01:51 PM (YTicy)

300 Just now arguing with a typical uber-lib on facebook on this subject. He said he would rather trust a prize winning Dr of economics on this than a Patzer with a gun fetish (me).

I do stink at chess and loves me some guns so at least his personal attacks are accurate.

However, he is totally accepting of Krug only because he loves him some authority. And thinking hurts.

Posted by: Comrade Trainer on his Iphone at February 09, 2013 02:18 PM (N/M4J)

301 too blase about things, yeah.

the Marxist/socialist stuff...k

Posted by: JDP at February 09, 2013 02:20 PM (8HhF2)

302 Oh you put one foot in and one foot out and then you do the hokey pokey all about ...

Posted by: Certified transcript of the Hagel confirmation hearings at February 09, 2013 06:33 PM (p4U6S)

303 Attention right-wing dipshits: Krugman gets under your skin because he's right more than you.

If you listened to Krugman when the crisis hit and invested accordingly, like me, you made a nice pile of money.

If you listened to the anyone claiming inflation would skyrocket, you lost your shirt.

Money talks, bullshit walks.

Posted by: HULK CONFUSED at February 11, 2013 04:42 PM (+BDIM)






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