No Matter Which Way You Turn In The Menendez Story, You Run Into Corruption and Self-Dealing

I've given up on this story-- not because there's nothing there, but because there's too much there to even keep straight.

Menendez might be saved due to the fact he's got so many corrupt irons in so many self-dealing fires that no one can follow it all without a flowchart and a predisposition to nerdy completism. If corruption were redundant money-sucking Star Wars action figures, Bob Menendez would be George Lucas.

Just some of the latest: "Untouchable.

According the developing accounts, NJ Sen. Bob Menendez has a special relationship with mega-donor Dr. Salomon Melgen. In addition to campaign contributions, Dr. Melgen allegedly flew Sen. Menendez to the Dominican Republic on his private plane and may have provided the Senator with prostitutes. That soap opera, though, obscures a more troubling connection. According to a report in the Washington Post, Sen. Menendez intervened at least twice on behalf of Melgen in a billing dispute he had with Medicare.

[details of the dispute omitted]

According to the Post, Sen. Menendez pressed HHS officials on the matter on at least two occasions....


...

A second former federal official recounted that Menendez’s name came up repeatedly when Melgen was interviewed by investigators from the Justice Department and the inspector general’s office at the Department of Health and Human Services.

“He was using Menendez more as a character reference,” the official said. “He thought he was untouchable.”

Melgen, meanwhile, set up an Occupy-style "grassroots" (really astroturf) organization to shellack Bank of America.

Why? Because of the principle? Because the bank was Too Big To Care (the name of the organization)?

Of course not. It was all about exerting political pressure to settle a private dispute over money.

But a grassroots effort may have been less important to Melgen than pressuring his allies on the Senate Banking Committee for new regulations. His friend and political beneficiary Sen. Menendez has sat on the banking committee since he joined the Senate in 2005.

Melgen has called himself a “victim” of Wall Street “greed.” In 2005 he sued Banc of America Securities, then an investment subsidiary of Bank of America, after he lost $15 million in what he claimed was securities fraud. He alleged that his entire investment was transferred into the account of a failed trader in order to help him cover a margin call.

He lost a lower court challenge and is case is now in appeals purgatory. But who knows, the stroke of a legislator's pen might make everything turn out right.

Now, all this said, it's important to keep in mind that it's hard to distinguish sleazy self-dealing from criminal self-dealing, and just because there is reason for suspicion does not mean there are grounds for prosecution.

Every man is innocent until proven guilty. Every man. Let us not betray our small-l liberal heritage by forgetting this elementary rule, nor let us snidely insinuate facts we don't know to be true.


L to R: Salomon Melgen, Bob Menendez, and a less-guilty man,
for purposes of comparison


Posted by: Ace at 02:55 PM



Comments

1 Dominican Children hardest hit.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2013 02:57 PM (alKQm)

2 If corruption were redundant money-sucking Star Wars action figures, Bob Menendez would be George Lucas.

Oooh. Nice metaphor.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 08, 2013 02:57 PM (/kI1Q)

3

Well, at least it wasn't underage sex slaves

Posted by: imp at February 08, 2013 02:57 PM (UaxA0)

4 It's the Joisey way.

Posted by: Guido at February 08, 2013 02:57 PM (bv67p)

5
Hey Tasker, wherever you are I pointed out to ace that he H/T me instead of you.
I've been elsewhere, so I was...confused.

Posted by: tsrblke at February 08, 2013 02:58 PM (GaqMa)

6 I can haz banana republic?

Posted by: lolAmerica at February 08, 2013 02:59 PM (EZl54)

7 it was never the hookers, he wishes it was just the hookers, its the pay to play, oldest business in New Jersey. Lets see who else gets tapped

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:00 PM (Dnbau)

8 "L to R ; Crook, Crook, Not a Crook."

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2013 03:00 PM (alKQm)

9 Nothing is going to happen to him. Reid will provide cover in the Senate and Obama's little dog Holder will provide cover in the Justice Department.
They can't let this one slip with a Republican governor.

Posted by: Max Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:01 PM (bv67p)

10 This story would only be news if a Jersey politician wasn't corrupt.

Otherwise, dog bites man.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 08, 2013 03:01 PM (sbV1u)

11 Menendez might be saved due to the fact he's got so many corrupt irons in so many self-dealing fires that no one can follow it all without a flowchart and a predisposition to nerdy completism.


So what you're saying is that this is perfect for the Horde?


If corruption were redundant money-sucking Star Wars action figures, Bob Menendez would be George Lucas.


That's fucking beautiful, man.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at February 08, 2013 03:02 PM (VtjlW)

12
They can't let this one slip with a Republican governor.

Well played. (I see what you did there.)

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2013 03:02 PM (alKQm)

13 Did anyone see an earlier story over at Breitbart about that little runt mayor of the Barrio known as LA (Tony Villar) being part of this mess - specifically liking to go to the DR?

Posted by: Mjölnir, banhammer from the gates of Hell at February 08, 2013 03:02 PM (Jls4P)

14 no, the Dems in NJ will roll him in order to have a special election to make Corey Booker the next Senator from NJ. They don't want this to go any further or be looked at any further

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:03 PM (Dnbau)

15

A few news cycles will make this all go away.

Posted by: nearest beach at February 08, 2013 03:03 PM (LpQbZ)

16 Damn, my new hash is almost grounds for a droning.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2013 03:03 PM (alKQm)

17 I'll get right on the prosecution as soon as I find out where I'm going to place all these GD bullets. Trust me.

Posted by: Eric Holder at February 08, 2013 03:03 PM (eHIJJ)

18 well.. Melgen was a Rubio donor too, just sayin

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:03 PM (Dnbau)

19 The caption is off, but Menendez looks like a corpse or a Paul Winchell dummy.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 08, 2013 03:03 PM (XkWWK)

20 Well, at least it wasn't underage sex slaves

Posted by: imp at February 08, 2013 02:57 PM (UaxA0)



Actually, I'm pretty damn sure underage sex slaves are involved.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at February 08, 2013 03:04 PM (VtjlW)

21 He thought he was untouchable.

Even the 'Untouchables' ended up being touchable.

Posted by: wheatie at February 08, 2013 03:04 PM (BZMZX)

22 Its just a Massive Republican Conspiracy to keep the brown man down.

Racist republicans are just upset that some brown skinned guy was able to immigrate to this country and become a great well respected dynamic wonderful caring leader in washington DC who was helping these girls with extra pocket money in hard economic times.

Just like the great president Bill Cliton was crucified for caring about women our beloved Menendez is being harrassed the same way.

When are you uptight racist republicans going to stop using sex to attack the wonderful kind caring men in the democrat party who care about women so much.

Posted by: Jordan at February 08, 2013 03:04 PM (+OTLF)

23 the NJ Dems did this before with Toricelli. They called a special election to avoid an appointment by a Republican governor, pubs sued, NJST sided with the Dems, and NJ got stuck with Lautenberg. The seat will go to Booker. Christie will appoint nothing

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:05 PM (Dnbau)

24 I'm still waiting for the cocaine angle to pop up. Where there are hookers, there's blow, baby!

Posted by: Fritz at February 08, 2013 03:05 PM (UzPAd)

25 NJSC - gah

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:06 PM (Dnbau)

26 Those two douchebags look like they come from thecentral casting of corruption and underage Dominican prostitute fucking,

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 08, 2013 03:06 PM (BrQrN)

27 What this story needs now is some dead hookers.

Posted by: EC at February 08, 2013 03:07 PM (GQ8sn)

28 When are you uptight racist republicans going to stop using sex to attack the wonderful kind caring men in the democrat party who care about women so much.
Posted by: Jordan at February 08, 2013 03:04 PM (+OTLF)



When they start using lube.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at February 08, 2013 03:07 PM (VtjlW)

29 HEY MAMI!!!

YOU WANT TO SEE MY "MIGHTY AZTEC WARRIOR"!!!

Posted by: Bobby Menedez, Dominican playa at February 08, 2013 03:07 PM (Jls4P)

30 18 well.. Melgen was a Rubio donor too, just sayin

Makes me wonder if he tried to get 'favors' from Rubio too.

Posted by: wheatie at February 08, 2013 03:07 PM (BZMZX)

31 This guy is from Jersey? What did move there from Chicago?

Posted by: Billy Bob, Pseudo Intellectual at February 08, 2013 03:07 PM (wR+pz)

32 Posted by: tsrblkeatFebruary 08, 2013 02:58 PM (GaqMa)

I have to admit, it's sorta hilarious that ace finally realized you existed *and it was for the _wrong_ thing.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at February 08, 2013 03:07 PM (wbeNt)

33 Just get ready for the SHTF.



It's too far gone to ever repair.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 08, 2013 03:08 PM (bb5+k)

34 There will be no prosecution. He will resign, at the urging of NJ and natl Dem leadership who do not want this looked at too closely. Dems will call for a special election. They will get it. Booker will be elected. Christie will be at Dunkin Donuts

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:08 PM (Dnbau)

35
I still say those two faces need to be on the london boys cover.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:08 PM (p/cQy)

36 YOU WANT TO SEE MY "MIGHTY AZTEC WARRIOR"!!!

I assume it's as pale and doughy as the rest of you...which would explain why you have to pay little girls, wouldn't it?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 08, 2013 03:08 PM (/kI1Q)

37 Less guilty guys are paler.

Posted by: West at February 08, 2013 03:09 PM (vEjs1)

38 Both of these shit heads to rehab in 5, 4, 3, 2...

Posted by: Dang at February 08, 2013 03:09 PM (R18D0)

39 Really, at this point, what difference does it make?

Posted by: Hildebeast at February 08, 2013 03:09 PM (9tSXa)

40 Christie will be at Dunkin Donuts

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:08 PM (Dnbau)
When you are a massive heaving mountain of artery clogged flesh, Dunkin Donuts comes to you...

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka wright's Sock Puppet at February 08, 2013 03:10 PM (+OTLF)

41

That story about the woman who died after a late term abortion over at drudge reads like a horror story.

so sad

Posted by: nearest beach at February 08, 2013 03:10 PM (LpQbZ)

42 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:10 PM (8y9MW)

43
>>Even the 'Untouchables' ended up being touchable. <<

So touchable.

Posted by: Zombie Gandhi at February 08, 2013 03:10 PM (alKQm)

44 Menendez might be saved due to the fact he's got so many corrupt irons
in so many self-dealing fires that no one can follow it all without a
flowchart and a predisposition to nerdy completism


Sounds like a job for Glenn Beck.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:10 PM (8y9MW)

45
Oh look! Three snowflakes have fallen on Times Square.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:11 PM (p/cQy)

46 That story about the woman who died after a late term abortion over at drudge reads like a horror story.



so sad

Posted by: nearest beach

For the baby, yeah.

Posted by: Dang at February 08, 2013 03:12 PM (R18D0)

47 And it's not as if a US Senator would take an "in-kind" contribution* in exchange for favors. Of course not.

*Say, the favors of underage hos.

Posted by: joncelli at February 08, 2013 03:12 PM (RD7QR)

48 Posted by: Jordan at February 08, 2013 03:04 PM (+OTLF)

See, now that's just over the top for a Jordan sock. There are way too many adjectives, it's right in Mary Cloggenstein territory.

Try harder.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 08, 2013 03:12 PM (sbV1u)

49 IF this massive Storm of the century buries the entire northeast and 40 million liberals freeze and die....we still wont win elections there.

Just sayin...I voted Twice!

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka wright's Sock Puppet at February 08, 2013 03:12 PM (+OTLF)

50 Bob, Bob, make-cheesay. Pa'sa tah ono caulky malia. Ee youngee d'emperolo teesaw. Twa spastika awahl no. Yanee dah poo noo.

Posted by: Christi the Hutt at February 08, 2013 03:12 PM (XvHmy)

51 All investigation will stop when he resigns, which he will. The story will be that it is all about hookers, nothing else to see here. No one wants to look at who else Melgen was connected to. Mayor of LAW supposed to be a rising Dem star. They will sacrifice the DR answer to Eddie Munster

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:13 PM (Dnbau)

52 Hell, it's getting so you can't tell all the corruptocrats without a program these days.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 08, 2013 03:13 PM (+z4pE)

53 Oh look! Three snowflakes have fallen on Times Square.

Our long national nightmare has begun.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at February 08, 2013 03:13 PM (/kI1Q)

54 Sounds like a job for Glenn Beck. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:10 PM (8y9MW)

Please no. Someone confiscate Beck's blackboard.

NOW!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 08, 2013 03:14 PM (sbV1u)

55

Maybe a way to combat liberal media outlets, like the NYTimes, is to bombard them with comments all at once, like an aoshq moron & moronettes cluster bomb.

Pick one outlet, once a week, and have a countdown to bombardment.

Kinda like how ace does on Twitter. His rant at/to Piers et al was like a one man firing squad.

Posted by: nearest beach at February 08, 2013 03:14 PM (LpQbZ)

56 billing dispute he had with Medicare

Translation: got caught with his pants down ripping off Medicare for five million dollars.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at February 08, 2013 03:14 PM (feFL6)

57 faaackkk -Mayor of LA

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:14 PM (Dnbau)

58
Ace - Please, call me 'Papi'.

Posted by: Bob Menendez (D-NJ) at February 08, 2013 03:15 PM (alKQm)

59 OT already but Yahoo finally has a story about the California cop...heavily sanitized of course. It's noted his "favorite politicians" are Bill Clinton AND GHW Bush; would love to see H Clinton OR Christie in the White House--as opposed to what he actually said.

Oh, and I predict nothing will happen to Menendez. He'll be in office as long as Ted Kennedy.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at February 08, 2013 03:15 PM (DuH+r)

60 Since when does it snow during the winter in the north?!?

Posted by: Leo Tard at February 08, 2013 03:15 PM (R18D0)

61 When I was a young'un, I would occasionallyposethe theoretical question tomyself: If you had to choose betweeneither Heaven or Hell existing (with the appropriate people going to the appropriate location), which would it be?

Yeah,I'd like these two dirtyfuckers to burn. A lot.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at February 08, 2013 03:15 PM (BrQrN)

62 LOOK-

why are we surprised that a US Senator for NJ is as crooked as a dog's hind leg? Most pols in The Toolbooth State are so crooked they need a team of valets to screw their pants on each morning.

When you find an honest, hard-working, doesn't cheat on his wife NJ politician, THEN you have a scoop

they're all going to die in "Winter Storm NEMO" anyway...

Posted by: Assault Jones in Assault, CO at February 08, 2013 03:15 PM (8sCoq)

63
Every man is innocent until proven guilty. Every man. Let us not betray our
small-l liberal heritage by forgetting this elementary rule, nor let us snidely
insinuate facts we don't know to be true.


Someone should remind the neocons that that applies to Al-Awlaki and his kid, too.

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:16 PM (TULs6)

64 "no one can follow it all without a flowchart and a predisposition to nerdy completism"

Gee, those sound like qualities you'd like to have an a US Attorney (or some sub, sub US Attorney.)
I'm sure Holder has got somebody on this.

Posted by: rockhead at February 08, 2013 03:16 PM (jtTKf)

65 BB: "Hell, it's getting so you can't tell all the corruptocrats without a program these days."

Here's the shortcut: the ones with a "D", an "R", or an "I" after their name are corruptocrats. The rest are corruptocrats, too.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at February 08, 2013 03:16 PM (eHIJJ)

66
Who is Torricelli "the Torch"? Who is Corzine? Corrupt democrats one and all. Why can't Nanc Pelos clean this NJ swamp?

Posted by: jb at February 08, 2013 03:16 PM (GqTDY)

67 Your capacity for disappointment is impressive, ace-san. By now, any sane
person should EXPECT this from Democrats and the MFM.


Based on what you and most of the people reading this have seen over and over again, where's the surprise? How do actual actions diverge from expected behavior?

Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 08, 2013 03:17 PM (Dll6b)

68 "Storm of the Century"?

Wasn't that a really really bad Stephen King miniseries? If we've got to give the evil wizard somebody then I think Hector should go.

Posted by: Bigby's Writer's Cramp at February 08, 2013 03:17 PM (3ZtZW)

69


Actually, I'm pretty damn sure underage sex slaves are involved.

Posted by: alexthechick



I'm pretty sure that kind of sarcasm is what I was going for.

Posted by: imp at February 08, 2013 03:17 PM (UaxA0)

70 Every man is innocent until proven guilty. Every man. Let us not betray our

small-l liberal heritage by forgetting this elementary rule, nor let us snidely

insinuate facts we don't know to be true.

That reminds me. What's that Zimmerman guy up to these days?

Posted by: Dang at February 08, 2013 03:17 PM (R18D0)

71 remind the neocons that that applies to Al-Awlaki and his kid, too.

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:16 PM (TULs6)


there's That Smell again....

Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 08, 2013 03:18 PM (Dll6b)

72 Every man is innocent until proven guilty. Every man. Let us not betray our small-l liberal heritage by forgetting this elementary rule, nor let us snidely insinuate facts we don't know to be true.

I know this is tongue in cheek but I will still note that every man is innocent before the law until proven guilty. I, on the other hand, get to judge them as harshly as I wish, and harshly I do.

Posted by: toby928© making it personal at February 08, 2013 03:19 PM (QupBk)

73 The smell of due process for US citizens?

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:19 PM (TULs6)

74


Every man is innocent until proven guilty. Every man.


Ent, I believe the point was sarcastic, and even if not, you left out a key phrase.

Every man is presumed innocent in a court of law.

I don't have to presume anyone is innocent, since I am not the government or this scumbag's juror.

Posted by: imp at February 08, 2013 03:20 PM (UaxA0)

75 OT...has anyone even considered that this Dorner thing is a set up...that the manifesto is planted and the whole story is a wag the dog thing.

Cause really....it just seems so out there....a black man ex military cop expert marksman who turns out to be liberal but likes bush and wants to kill cops and loves msnbc and anderson cooper...is single...will turn out to be gay (just wait and see)...

Its like everything and the kitchen sink...

Could this be aimed at pushing gun control...just sayin....its just sort of insane...and we live in an insane world...after all...who could believe that we would give mexican drug runners guns so they could kill us citizens...if it didnt actually happen....

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka wright's Sock Puppet at February 08, 2013 03:21 PM (+OTLF)

76 One of my Dad's best friends was a ( D ) state senator from Cumberland County ( south Joisey ). He declined to run for a third term because the corruption was so bad he thought he'd end up indicted ( by the Nixon admin )


that was over forty years ago; now the corruption is........untouchable

Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 08, 2013 03:21 PM (Dll6b)

77
Statutory Rape.

Isn't that what it's called when someone has sex with a minor?

So it doesn't matter if you paid some pimp for the priviledge of boinking a young underage girl...it's still Statutory Rape.

Liberals got all outraged over that Audi Ad...as being 'rapey'.
Where's the outrage over a Senator who engaged in Statutory Rape?

Posted by: wheatie at February 08, 2013 03:21 PM (BZMZX)

78 Menendez is a traitor and a member of the Democrat party! Take him away.

Posted by: toby928© making it personal at February 08, 2013 03:21 PM (QupBk)

79 I had this hooker once, called herself Breeze. Worst blow job I ever got. I suggested that if she was gonna' run around calling herself Breeze, the least she could do is learn how to blow. She didn't appreciate that very much....

Posted by: Billy Clinton at February 08, 2013 03:21 PM (GQ72I)

80

fuck off toby, you swift fingered bastard.

Posted by: imp at February 08, 2013 03:21 PM (UaxA0)

81

Now that I've added an update with caveats to my post (thanks Ace), now it's time to address his passive-aggressive challenge to the natural Alpha pecking order around here.

Number of bitchin' hot rods: Iowahawk 3, Ace 0
Number of Star Wars action figures: Ace 863, Iowahawk 0.


hehe

the converstion -- it never ends

Posted by: nearest beach at February 08, 2013 03:21 PM (LpQbZ)

82 Harry Reid will never be investigated for his crimes because he buries his victims in the Nevada desert.

Posted by: Fritz at February 08, 2013 03:22 PM (UzPAd)

83 The smell of due process for US citizens?

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:19 PM (TULs6)


no, genius. Cat piss

Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 08, 2013 03:22 PM (Dll6b)

84 That Line Up is in complete without Johnny Corzine .

Posted by: Clemenza at February 08, 2013 03:23 PM (x59Gv)

85 73

how is a U.S. citizen who joins al Qaeda in the M.E. any different from a regular member

Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 03:24 PM (60GaT)

86 fuck off toby, you swift fingered bastard.

I'm just stickin' it to the man on a slow friday.

Posted by: toby928© making it personal at February 08, 2013 03:24 PM (QupBk)

87 This political corruption and social engineering is as common as Illegals here in Mexifornia..

Posted by: Clemenza at February 08, 2013 03:24 PM (x59Gv)

88 I coulda been a contender.

Posted by: Anthony Weiner at February 08, 2013 03:25 PM (wAQA5)

89 Thirsty .. so very thirsty ...

Posted by: the tree of liberty at February 08, 2013 03:25 PM (evdj2)

90 @75

Makes as much sense as anything else these days.

Interesting times.

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at February 08, 2013 03:25 PM (EZl54)

91
wheatie, its called human trafficking if you cross to another country.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:25 PM (p/cQy)

92 85
73

how is a U.S. citizen who joins al Qaeda in the M.E. any different from a regular member


Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 03:24 PM (60GaT)
When he fucks that goat during the first new recruit meet and greet weekend mountain hike and camping get away, it really will be his first time.

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka wright's Sock Puppet at February 08, 2013 03:26 PM (+OTLF)

93 so, 'white slavery' is not the term to use any longer?



Posted by: DOA in Scrambletown, FLA at February 08, 2013 03:27 PM (Dll6b)

94
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at February 08, 2013 03:07 PM (wbeNt)

Ace getting the H/T right would be a once and a life time thing. (Actually he quoted me in the post about the medic foam a while back because I happened to understand the physiology behind why it's an abdominal foam only.)

Posted by: tsrblke at February 08, 2013 03:27 PM (GaqMa)

95 I may just have a bird's eye view of things, but Menendez is my senator. His concern about port security isn't something he just made up to counter the new speculation. It's been one of his causes for years. Of course, those who have reasons to desire unsecured ports may grumble, and that's where I see much of the opposition to his policies coming from.

Posted by: Kenneth at February 08, 2013 03:27 PM (oYXGc)

96 If this takes down Menendez *and* Tony Villar, Imma have a party.

But no underage girls, because that would be wrong.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 08, 2013 03:27 PM (bxiXv)

97 Yo Bobby,

As a member of LA RAZA, I'm the only one that can call my member the "MIGHTY AZTEC WARRIOR"! You keep this up, and I'll send Sleepy and Chavo over to "talk to you", you got that, Vato!

Posted by: Tony Villar, Mayor of the LA Barrio at February 08, 2013 03:27 PM (Jls4P)

98 56billing dispute he had with Medicare Translation: got caught with his pants down ripping off Medicare for five million dollars.
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at February 08, 2013 03:14 PM (feFL6)

try 8.9 Million.

Posted by: RUReadingthis at February 08, 2013 03:28 PM (V92KK)

99 how is a U.S. citizen who joins al Qaeda in the M.E. any different from a regular member

He's a U.S. citizen.

Sorry, U.S. citizens get due process rights. If you want to kill him, convict him- even In Absentia.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:28 PM (8y9MW)

100
This is how stupid Democrats think we are:

Devil Patrick ordered all non-emergency state employees to work from home today.

"work from home" instead "take the day off"

tell me how a registry of motor vehicles employee can 'work from home'?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 08, 2013 03:28 PM (1WM2H)

101
This is how stupid Democrats think we are:

Devil Patrick ordered all non-emergency state employees to work from home today.

"work from home" instead of "take the day off"

tell me how a registry of motor vehicles employee can 'work from home'?

Posted by: soothsayer at February 08, 2013 03:28 PM (DlaLh)

102 Don't worry about Menendez , he has a parachute after politics, his resume" for pedophilia will net him big bucks in Hollyweird.

Posted by: Clemenza at February 08, 2013 03:28 PM (x59Gv)

103 >>>Cause really....it just seems so out there....a black man ex military cop expert marksman who turns out to be liberal but likes bush and wants to kill cops and loves msnbc and anderson cooper...is single...will turn out to be gay (just wait and see)...

Not that weird. I think he illustrates the extreme end of Liberal cognitive dissonance is all. He's more naturally a maybe-gay, black conservative. He isn't able to be what he is because, you know, black equals Dem, gay equals Dem, and Dem equals Progressive. Were he to have embraced his uh, reality? he'd probably have been at greater peace and not turned into a nut job what kills innocents.

Do I know that? No. Just amounts to what thought I've given him, is all.

Posted by: Bigby's Jazz Hands at February 08, 2013 03:29 PM (3ZtZW)

104 Protez we much!

Posted by: CHC at February 08, 2013 03:29 PM (bGlsD)

105 The Founding Fathers would be stupefied to learn what a twisted, pathetic disgrace their vision of government has become, and the corrupt, grasping lowlifes who have been elected to it.

Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna at February 08, 2013 03:29 PM (6NIyO)

106 please read National Defense Quarterly, or the Air Force Law Review, or LOACblog.com and get back to me Entropy. You do not know what you are talking about

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (Dnbau)

107 77

The definition of statutory rape depends on the jurisdiction. . .I have no idea what it is in the Dominican Republic, but apparently prostitution is legal there.

In any case, Menendez was probably boinking hos; its not entirely clear that the "underage" bit applies. That's a difficult thing to prove anyway; assuming he denies it, its going to be the word of a sitting US Senator against two underaged Dominican prostitutes. . . .not exactly a great spectacle of credibility anywhere in there.

The influence peddling is probably the more signficant charge here, at least from the perspective of potentially proveable criminal activity.

Posted by: looking closely at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (6Q9g2)

108
Bless you, Sooth.

How'd you manage a burp with two different hashes?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (+z4pE)

109 A govt. of demagogic cronies; by demagogic cronies; for demagogic cronies.

Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (g2GdP)

110 What the hell! My Platinium membership with Emerald Upgrade band is paid up! Why can't I double post comments?


This is clearly discriminatory. Now, if you'll excuse me, I must prepare giant papier mache puppet heads for my protest.


*bounds off*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (VtjlW)

111 "tell me how a registry of motor vehicles employee can 'work from home'? "

You can be rude and sassy anywhere.

Posted by: Peggy Joseph at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (BqGMB)

112 Posted by: Kenneth at February 08, 2013 03:27 PM (oYXGc)

Oh I agree. It's the people who want unsecured ports who are trying to drag down a wonderful, patriotic and honest senator.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (GsoHv)

113 "If I can't help my corrupt constituents and bang underage hookers what's the point in being a democrat?"


----Bob Menendez

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (4cRnj)

114 5
Hey Tasker, wherever you are I pointed out to ace that he H/T me instead of you.
I've been elsewhere, so I was...confused.
Posted by: tsrblke at February 08, 2013 02:58 PM (GaqMa)

______________

Ha! Don't worry about it.

He's on a roll--he always thinks I'm a dude.

This is just a new variant.

Posted by: tasker at February 08, 2013 03:31 PM (r2PLg)

115 95
I may just have a bird's eye view of things, but Menendez is my senator.
His concern about port security isn't something he just made up to
counter the new speculation. It's been one of his causes for years. Of
course, those who have reasons to desire unsecured ports may grumble,
and that's where I see much of the opposition to his policies coming
from.

Posted by: Kenneth at February 08, 2013 03:27 PM (oYXGc)
Well he sure does like docking his U.S.S. Salami in underage offshore ports...but the shit hit the fan cause he didn't want to pay the dock dues.

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka wright's Sock Puppet at February 08, 2013 03:31 PM (+OTLF)

116 Tell me, did we try all the Confederate Soldiers in absentia before we killed them in the civil war

Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:31 PM (Dnbau)

117 Power Corrupts....

Absolute Power Corrupts absolutely....

The US was the last remaining Super Power, and the only check on its power was the US Consitution...

The US Constitution is now consistantly ignored by both of the US Major Political Parties...

(exhibit 1, Congress SHALL be paid, and only Congress can raise the debt, but the REPUBLICANS in one bill, said, we'll just hold onto Congress's Money (ie not pay them), which IS a Bill of Attainder, and you can ignore the Debt ceiling for a few months... pure sophistry being used to circumvent the clear intent of the REQUIREMENTS of the Constitution).

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 08, 2013 03:32 PM (lZBBB)

118 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (VtjlW)


That's mâché, wench.

Chicks!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 08, 2013 03:32 PM (GsoHv)

119 lmao plus he's dyslexic-takes one to know one.

Posted by: tasker at February 08, 2013 03:32 PM (r2PLg)

120 91 wheatie, its called human trafficking if you cross to another country.

Right. ...And that's likelywhy he went to another country to do it.

But the physical act of boinking a little girl, is still 'statutory rape'...no matter where he does it.

Posted by: wheatie at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (BZMZX)

121
So NY is supposed to get 1ft and it creates all this hubbub?

Pussies.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (p/cQy)

122 The age of consent in the DR is 18

Posted by: Assault Jones in Assault, CO at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (8sCoq)

123 95
I may just have a bird's eye view of things, but Menendez is my senator.
His concern about port security isn't something he just made up to
counter the new speculation. It's been one of his causes for years. Of
course, those who have reasons to desire unsecured ports may grumble,
and that's where I see much of the opposition to his policies coming
from.
========

And the opportunity to cirect $1 BILLION in sweet sweet gov't money direction port security rights to his yacht and blow-job purchasing pals. . .that don't hurt neither.

Posted by: looking closely at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (6Q9g2)

124 Oh I agree. It's the people who want unsecured ports who are trying to drag down a wonderful, patriotic and honest senator.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (GsoHv)


I wish people would stop dragging Rand Paul into these discussions!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (bxiXv)

125 >> kill cops and loves msnbc and anderson cooper...is single...will turn out to be gay (just wait and see)...

>Not that weird. I think he illustrates the extreme end of Liberal cognitive dissonance is all. He's more naturally a maybe-gay, black conservative.


Not sure where you guys are getting this ghey-meme from but he was married.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (NTBjC)

126
"If I can't help my corrupt constituents and bang underage hookers what's the point in being a democrat?"


----Bob Menendez


Posted by: Dr Spank at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM



Senator Robert Menendez (D) New Jersey and Miami, apparently.

Posted by: huerfano at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (bAGA/)

127 116 Tell me, did we try all the Confederate Soldiers in absentia before we killed them in the civil war


Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:31 PM (Dnbau)


Uh.... they were 'under arms', in a Rebeling Army... not sitting in an African Country, without a weapon, not in uniform, writing magazine articles....

This would be like the King of England, deciding to assasinate Benjamin Franklin, because he wrote about rebellion.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 08, 2013 03:34 PM (lZBBB)

128 106 please read National Defense Quarterly, or the Air Force Law Review, or LOACblog.com and get back to me Entropy. You do not know what you are talking about
Posted by: thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:30 PM (Dnbau)

________________

Oh gawd--are you tangling with Entropy?

Get him to tell you all about his favorite pastime--

Genetic Eugenics with a dash of goose-step.

Posted by: tasker at February 08, 2013 03:34 PM (r2PLg)

129
Oh no, I am with you wheatie, just saying human trafficking carries a much stiffer sentence than stat rape.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:35 PM (p/cQy)

130 Not sure where you guys are getting this ghey-meme from but he was married.


Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 08, 2013 03:33 PM (NTBjC)
He is on the DL...just like a certain Blow Job Barry as Reggie Love calls him.

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka wright's Sock Puppet at February 08, 2013 03:36 PM (+OTLF)

131 They called a special election to avoid an appointment by a Republican
governor, pubs sued, NJST sided with the Dems, and NJ got stuck with
Lautenberg.


Toricelli was going to lose the regular election so Slick Willy came and had the talk. Put Lautenberg in (way past dead NJ) later than the NJ election rules deadline. NJST waved em on and it's Sen Laut again.

Posted by: Ayatollah Scimitar headed for the Ganges at February 08, 2013 03:36 PM (JJdOG)

132

one of those comments is from a soothsayer with a goatee

Posted by: soothsayer at February 08, 2013 03:36 PM (LPRBM)

133
And I here I was hoping to bump into some good ol' fashioned working girls. Dang.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at February 08, 2013 03:37 PM (1hM1d)

134 The age of consent in the DR is 18

Is that relevant to the foreign fucking statutes? I thought their whole point was to stop sex tourism to places were the AoC was 8 or whatever.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at February 08, 2013 03:37 PM (QupBk)

135
Posted by: tasker at February 08, 2013 03:31 PM (r2PLg)

Wait you're an 'ette? Geeze we need to start issuing 'ettes pink badges or something.
Great so I've been confused for a girl. I'd lie and say "this is the first time" but no, my phone voice causes confusion.

OTOH, you're constantly being confused for a dude, so HA! It's your fault not mine.

Posted by: tsrblke at February 08, 2013 03:38 PM (GaqMa)

136 half the fahgs in Hollywood were married, back in the day...



Posted by: Walter Winchell at February 08, 2013 03:38 PM (Dll6b)

137
"Every man is presumed innocent in a court of law"


Hahahahahah! Fuck your courts!

Posted by: IRS at February 08, 2013 03:38 PM (+iUsQ)

138 116 Tell me, did we try all the Confederate Soldiers in absentia before we killed them in the civil war


You realize there's a huge difference between shooting someone who is (at least capable of) shooting back, and blowing up some dude who happens to be standing around minding his own business, yes?

When Confederate soldiers could be captured, they were supposed to be captured. Indeed, most Confederate Soldiers (not true for higher officers, or those who held political office in the CSA) were given a blanket amnesty after the war.

I'm sorry, but an American Citizen is an American Citizen. If he's actively on the battle field, that's one thing. If he's not, then he's owed due process.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:38 PM (8y9MW)

139 Menendez can do anything he wants as long as Harry Reid and Eric Holder don't care.
And they won't care unless the media cares.
And the media doesn't care what a Dem does.

Now, the sex-crime angle complicates things, because the Miss Grundies in the media get a thrill out of that stuff and just can't resist it. It helps ratings too.
Plus, it will bring out the real investigative journalists ---I mean the folks at National Enquirer et al.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 08, 2013 03:38 PM (C8mVl)

140 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:28 PM (8y9MW)

Yep, the Constitution says what the US Government can NOT do, to we, the Citizens...

It give the Feds Powers, and Obligations, while telling it what it CANNOT do to us (right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed... Congress shall pass no law... lots of instances...).

You do not stop being a citizen just because you are in another country... ergo... those limits on US Federal Power still apply.... or at least SHOULD.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 08, 2013 03:39 PM (lZBBB)

141 Now, the sex-crime angle complicates things, because the Miss Grundies in the media get a thrill out of that stuff and just can't resist it. It helps ratings too.

If it doesn't bleed, it leads!

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at February 08, 2013 03:40 PM (QupBk)

142 127

i mean the guy we're talking about (not his son) was a known associate, and helped coordinate an attempted attack. i'm not sure how different that is.

Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 03:40 PM (60GaT)

143 Posted by: tsrblkeatFebruary 08, 2013 03:27 PM (GaqMa)

Darn, I missed that. Saw the thread but got distracted by WoW and missed the comments/updates.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at February 08, 2013 03:40 PM (wbeNt)

144 Tasker is a leeeeeedy?

Posted by: Truman North at February 08, 2013 03:40 PM (I2LwF)

145
Confederate soldiers were uniformed combatants. It is wholly different, and they may have given up their US citizenship.

The Holder memo was specifically for killing US citizens.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:41 PM (p/cQy)

146 Waay OT but here you go, again. From National Defense Quarterly


For the first time in modern U.S. history, the country was engaged in an armed conf lict with members of an organization, al Qaeda, versus a state. The legal justification to use force, which includes targeted killings, against al Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated forces is twofold: self-defense and the law of war.31

In armed conflict, the rules governing when an individual can be killed are starkly different than in peacetime. The law enforcement paradigm does not apply in armed conflict. Rather, designated terrorists may be targeted and killed because of their status as enemy belligerents. That status is determined solely by the President under the AUMF. Unlike the law enforcement paradigm, the law of war requires neither a certain conduct nor an analysis of the reasonable amount of force to engage belligerents. In armed conf lict, it is wholly permissible to inf lict "death on enemy personnel irrespective of the actual risk they present."32 Killing enemy belligerents is legal unless specifically prohibited—for example, enemy personnel out of combat like the wounded, the sick, or the shipwrecked.33 Armed conflict also negates the law enforcement presumption that lethal force against an individual is justified only when necessary. If an individual is an enemy, then "soldiers are not constrained by the law of war from applying the full range of lawful weapons."34 Now the soldier is told by the state that an enemy is hostile and he may engage that individual without any consideration of the threat currently posed. The enemy is declared hostile; the enemy is now targetable.

Anticipatory Self-defense

This paradigm shift is novel for the United States. The President’s authority to order targeted killings is clear under domestic law; it stems from the AUMF. Legal ambiguity of the U.S. authority to order targeted killings emerges, however, when it is required to interpret international legal norms like self-defense and the law of war. The United States has been a historic champion of these international norms, but now they are hampering its desires to target and kill terrorists.

Skeptics of targeted killing admit that "[t]he decision to target specific individuals with lethal force after September 11 was neither unprecedented nor surprising."35 Mary Ellen O’Connell has conceded, for example, that targeted killing against enemy combatants in Afghanistan is not an issue because "[t]he United States is currently engaged in an armed conf lict" there.36 But when the United States targets individuals outside a zone of conf lict, as it did with alAwlaki in Yemen,37 it runs into turbulence because a state of war does not exist between the United States and Yemen.38 A formidable fault line that is emerging between the Obama administration’s position and many academics, international organizations,39 and even some foreign governments40 is where these targeted killings can be conducted.41

According to the U.S. critics, if armed conf lict between the states is not present at a location, then the law of war is never triggered, and the state reverts to a peacetime paradigm. In other words, the targeted individual cannot be killed merely because of his or her status as an enemy, since there is no armed conf lict. Instead, the United States, as in peacetime, must look to the threat the individual possesses at the time of the targeting. There is a profound shift of the burden upon the state: the presumption now is that the targeted killing must be necessary. When, for example, the United States targeted and killed six al Qaeda members in Yemen in 2002, the international reaction was extremely negative: the strike constituted "a clear case of extrajudicial killing."42

The Obama administration, like its predecessor, disagrees. Its legal justification for targeted killings outside a current zone of armed conf lict is anticipatory self-defense. The administration cites the inherent and unilateral right every nation has to engage in anticipatory self-defense. This right is codified in the United Nations charter43 and is also part of the U.S. interpretation of customary international law stemming from the Caroline case in 1837. A British warship entered U.S. territory and destroyed an American steamboat, the Caroline. In response, U.S. Secretary of State Daniel Webster articulated the lasting acid test for anticipatory self-defense: "[N]ecessity of self defense [must be] instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means and no moment for deliberation . . . [and] the necessity of self defense, must be limited by that necessity and kept clearly within it."44


A state can act under the guise of anticipatory self-defense. This truism, however, leaves domestic policymakers to struggle with two critical quandaries: first, the factual predicate required by the state to invoke anticipatory self-defense, on the one hand; and second, the protections the state’s soldiers possess when they act under this authority, on the other. As to the first issue, there is simply no guidance from Congress to the President; the threshold for triggering anticipatory self-defense is ad hoc. As to the second issue, under the law of war, a soldier who kills an enemy has immunity for these precapture or warlike acts.45 This "combatant immunity" attaches only when the law of war has been triggered. Does combatant immunity attach when the stated legal authority is self-defense? There is no clear answer.

The administration is blurring the contours of the right of the state to act in Yemen under self-defense and the law of war protections afforded its soldiers when so acting. Therefore, what protections do U.S. Airmen enjoy when operating the drone that killed an individual in Yemen, Somalia, or Libya? If they are indicted by a Spanish court for murder, what is the defense? Under the law of war, it is combatant immunity. But if the law of war is not triggered because the killing occurred outside the zone of armed conf lict, the policy could expose Airmen to prosecution for murder.

In order to alleviate both of these quandaries, Congress must step in with legislative guidance. Congress has the constitutional obligation to fund and oversee military operations.46 The goal of congressional action must not be to thwart the President from protecting the United States from the dangers of a very hostile world. As the debates of the Church Committee demonstrated, however, the President’s unfettered authority in the realm of national security is a cause for concern. Clarification is required because the AUMF gave the President a blank check to use targeted killing under domestic law, but it never set parameters on the President’s authority when international legal norms intersect and potentially conf lict with measures stemming from domestic law.

Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:42 PM (Dnbau)

147 Hey, those underage hookers aren't going to fuck themselves, you know.

That shit's like 200 bucks extra....

Per girl!

Posted by: Bob Menendez' Expense Report at February 08, 2013 03:43 PM (Pson9)

148 i mean the guy we're talking about (not his son) was a known associate,
and helped coordinate an attempted attack. i'm not sure how different
that is.


I'm sure he was a dirt-bag. I'm relatively certain that had a court been convened, he would have been convicted- subject to whatever penalty (I'm even fine with revoking citizenship- then he's not a U.S. Citizen, and due process no longer applies. Bombs away.).

That lament about "First they came for Jews..." is often misapplied, but I think it applies here. It is a very, very dangerous day for the Republic when the Executive Branch gets to decide -unilaterally- whether or not due process should be given.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:43 PM (8y9MW)

149 plotting with other unlawful combatants not in uniform is exactly what makes it OK under our law and international law to make him a dead tango

Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:44 PM (Dnbau)

150 plotting with other unlawful combatants not in uniform is exactly what
makes it OK under our law and international law to make him a dead tango


Sure. On the battle field, or after he's had due process.

Find me someone who is defending the scumbag. I'm not.

I'm simply saying that it's not okay to circumvent due process on the President's Say-So.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at February 08, 2013 03:46 PM (8y9MW)

151 its fine under LOAC but Congress needs to give the prezzie guidence to protect the Airmen pickling the drone

Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:46 PM (Dnbau)

152 Someone should remind the neocons that that applies to Al-Awlaki and his kid, too.

Let me remind you idiots of the fact that Al-Awlaki was an enemy combatant destroyed on the field of battle while attacking US in a legally declared war and his son was riding in cars with hirabists.

Posted by: DaveA at February 08, 2013 03:47 PM (JJdOG)

153
The 16 year old was not part of the plotting or was not proved to be yet. Or should we just assume somebody like the current administration would be truthful in what they determine to be plotting.

"yep, that thunderb sure seemed to be plotting, thats a drone strike".

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:47 PM (p/cQy)

154 Allen he isn't circumventing due process. However, Congress should provide guidance for the POTUS to act, in order to protect the Airmen who pilot the drone

Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:47 PM (Dnbau)

155 Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:42 PM (Dnbau)

That's 1083 words I will never read.

I come here for the snark and the boobies. And talking shit to the Texans*.

*small words...I promise.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 08, 2013 03:48 PM (GsoHv)

156 153

yeah i'm sure Obama just kills Muslims for kicks

Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 03:49 PM (60GaT)

157 Gosh, if only there was some kind of other branch of government to investigate the government and hold its abuses in check...

Posted by: T. at February 08, 2013 03:50 PM (D0Mt7)

158 Hey,

If I get charged with anything it will be "encouraging cultural diversity through vigorous cultural intercourse"...

Bobby, the Dominican Playa

Posted by: Bobby Menedez, Dominican playa at February 08, 2013 03:50 PM (Jls4P)

159 he isn't circumventing due process.

I disagree as do many other legal scholars on the right and left.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:50 PM (p/cQy)

160
Tell me, did we try all the Confederate Soldiers in absentia before we killed them in the civil war

They were killed as active combatants on a battlefield.

They were not individually targeted and executed in their civillian homesfor being suspected of working with the Confederates.

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:51 PM (TULs6)

161
no jdp, I worry about him killing you for kicks.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 08, 2013 03:51 PM (p/cQy)

162 Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:42 PM (Dnbau)

One point... most of these drone strikes are not carried out by the Uniformed Military... they are not done within a Unirformed Chain of Command... and as there is a 'hit list' constituted by Civilians, NOT agianst Beligerents under arms nor in Uniform (they are not being killed in the act, but as you said, anticipatory to some act), it is pretty clear this is Assasination by military definition...

Which is also against the Laws of War... Uniformed Military cannot assasinate as it is against the UCMJ.

The Administration is using sophistry to try to get around legal hurdles which do exist IMO.... lawyers can spin all they want... but this is setting precedents which are going to come back to bite us...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 08, 2013 03:51 PM (lZBBB)

163 Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:44 PM (Dnbau)

Is anyone arguing against wacking these fucksticks?

My discomfort is with the casual and incoherent way in which the administration doles out death sentences to Americans.

“It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 08, 2013 03:53 PM (GsoHv)

164 My understanding was that the 16 yr old was not specifically targeted, that his death was "collateral damage." (???)
But then, I don't trust ANY story these days.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 08, 2013 03:54 PM (C8mVl)

165 156
153

yeah i'm sure Obama just kills Muslims for kicks


Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 03:49 PM (60GaT)

hahaha
Is this Jordan?

Posted by: Todd Akin at February 08, 2013 03:55 PM (+OTLF)

166
Which is also against the Laws of War... Uniformed Military cannot assasinate as it is against the UCMJ.

That's why it's CIA spooks flying the drones. Much more flexible.

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:55 PM (TULs6)

167 who do you think pilots the drones Romeo? Its Airmen.

We hav never fought a war comprised entirely on unlawful combatants before. This is not productive. You want to go by feelings and not facts.

Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:56 PM (Dnbau)

168 Sorry, U.S. citizens get due process rights.

Wrong Allen, enemy combatants die at our convenience. If he wanted a trial he could have rode his goat to an embassy anytime.

Posted by: DaveA at February 08, 2013 03:58 PM (JJdOG)

169 That's why it's CIA spooks flying the drones. Much more flexible.


Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 03:55 PM (TULs6)


Which clearly puts it outside the Laws of War... as they are not uniformed combatants within a Legal Chain of Command.... and thus... its a Law Enforcement issue... for the Courts...

Heck... thats one reason both the Soviets and the Chinese give their spooks Military Rank... so they are WITHIN a military Chain of Command for these cases.... (same with the Brits.... remember.. its Commander Bond... LOL)

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 08, 2013 03:59 PM (lZBBB)

170
Confederate Soldiers

Confederates weren't US Citizens.
Secession has consequences.

Posted by: garrett at February 08, 2013 04:00 PM (alKQm)

171 45 Oh look! Three snowflakes have fallen on Times Square.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk

Prepare the mighty bailout money!

Posted by: Max Entropy at February 08, 2013 04:00 PM (bv67p)

172 Melgen, meanwhile, set up an Occupy-style "grassroots" (really astroturf) organization to shellack Bank of America.

Its a safe assumption that every 'public service' organization out for 'reform' is really about lining pockets.

Posted by: zsasz at February 08, 2013 04:02 PM (MMC8r)

173
Get him to tell you all about his favorite pastime--

Genetic Eugenics with a dash of goose-step.


That's idiotic. It makes no sense whatsoever. I reject eugenics entirely and always have. Hell, I've always been on the "nurture" not "nature" side of that argument. Some of you koolaid junkies just make up whatever you want to believe (to dismiss your opponent) and then seem to actually believe the shit you just made up.

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 04:02 PM (TULs6)

174 165

nope i just think there's a distinction between "there may be unintended mistakes if the rules are too broad" vs. "makin' up shit."

Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 04:03 PM (60GaT)

175 Posted by: Thunderb at February 08, 2013 03:56 PM (Dnbau)

Actualy, you are incorrect... there are numerous drones under the direct control of the CIA, and other inteligence agencies, for this very reason... (hell, there are even drones for the Border Patrol....).

Heck... reports are the Al-awaki strike was done by Military, but directed by CIA... which is a direct violation of the Military Chain of command, and Laws of War...

It is flat out against the UCMJ to 1) target civilians and 2) perform targeted Assasinations (like killing a guy on a list), yet that seems to be exactly what we are doing... and following an illegal order? Just ask Lt. Calley how that turns out...

We've blurred the legal lines of War...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 08, 2013 04:05 PM (lZBBB)

176
Which clearly puts it outside the Laws of War... as they are not uniformed combatants within a Legal Chain of Command.... and thus... its a Law Enforcement issue... for the Courts...

Absolutely. I've much less of a problem with the US Air Force doing these kinds of things because they have well thought out procedures for determining what kind of force is justified and when.

The spooks are civilians. Civilians in an agency with a history of drug and weapons running, assassinations and coups.

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 04:06 PM (TULs6)

177 omg Ron Paul

Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 04:09 PM (60GaT)

178 standing around minding his own business,

He wasn't standing around, he was skulking around recruiting and mission planning. Thunderb is right but Congress is ridiculous so we've had this ambiguous mess for years. If you want to create a party whose sole focus is 100% dotted i's and crossed t's before smoking Al-Dirtbagi and win 50%+1 in 535 races then go for it.

Yes TFG and his clowns are hypocrites with mushier than needed language but finding and blowing up Al-Q wherever IS the due process.

Posted by: DaveA at February 08, 2013 04:15 PM (JJdOG)

179
Let me try to illustrate the problem:

how is a U.S. citizen who allegedly joins al Qaeda in the M.E. any different from a regular member

FIFY. That's what due process is all about. Can they throw you in jail without a trial if you're a murderer? Who likes murderers? It's a presumption of guilt. That's dangerous, dangerous business.

Yes TFG and his clowns are hypocrites with mushier than needed language but finding and blowing up Al-Q wherever IS the due process.

If the government never ever ever gets the wrong guy, ever, why do we even need courts then?

Posted by: Entropy at February 08, 2013 04:17 PM (TULs6)

180 you see how someone involved with terrorists might be a bit more of a time-sensitive issue than domestic criminals being held and tried.

Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 04:22 PM (60GaT)

181 Posted by: JDP at February 08, 2013 04:22 PM (60GaT)

Umm.... Al-Awk was on the hit list for YEARS... and he was wanted and known long before that...

Way more time that would have been needed for a Trial in Abscentia, for Treason, then both strip his citizenship, and give him a Death Penalty.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 08, 2013 04:29 PM (lZBBB)

182 Jersey Wrong

Posted by: teh Wind at February 08, 2013 04:31 PM (HBU8E)

183 Salomon Melgen has got sleaze written all over him in 50 foot neon letters.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 08, 2013 04:50 PM (1Jaio)

184
149 plotting with other unlawful combatants not in uniform is exactly what makes it OK under our law and international law to make him a dead tango

Whatcha gonna do when Teh Won decides that you are an unlawful enemy combatant and orders your very own Hellfire missile strike?

Remember, that's what this is about. How does one get on this list, and what safeguards are there to make sure that correct person is actually listed and properly targeted?

You do know there are people who have found out that they're on the no-fly list thru either a clerical error or because the name's the same?

Is Teh Won ready to chalk killing the wrong person up to collateral damage?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at February 08, 2013 05:45 PM (1hM1d)

185 Corruption and Self-Dealing
Also known as the Democrat Party

Posted by: Joe Bidenmytime at February 08, 2013 09:01 PM (kOlH2)






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