Today's Historic Demand For Guns. Who's Buying?

The plural of anecdote is not data, as they say. However, in my recent trips to gun shows and outdoor sporting goods stores, I've noticed a large number of new buyers. I'm beginning to wonder if much of this increased demand is being driven by the non-gun owning 2nd Amendment supporter. I've overheard a lot of "I've never owned a gun before and I don't know which one to get, but I want to buy a gun today" to salesmen at shops and shows in recent months.

Longtime gun owners are getting into the action as well, of course. But this is nothing that many of us have ever seen before. Even the Clinton-era push didn't produce this level of demand.

What we're witnessing isn't just a run on specific models that might catch a ban in proposed legislation. The ubiquitous Ruger 10/22 is getting hard to find. The only way this particular model finds itself on a banned list is if we're approaching an all-out nationwide gun ban. And yet, it's flying off the shelves.

Have you checked ammunition supplies recently? You might expect .223 to be hard to find right now, and it is. But the absolute disappearance of .22lr rounds? Unheard of. Check your local outdoor sporting goods store. The shelves are absolutely picked clean.

This leads me to believe that there is a lot of new demand from people that feel like they need to get their hands on something right now. I suspect that Obama has always wanted to drive the non-gun owning pro-2A segment of the populace to extinction; I just don't think he expected to turn them into gun owners.

What do the morons think?


[Update] For those asking for help shopping for your first gun, I highly recommend Bob Owens' e-book, So You Want To Own A Gun. $0.99 well spent.

Posted by: JohnE. at 12:05 PM



Comments

1 Just got back from the Midtown Gun Range in NYC where my paperwork is moving forward.

Will get some sort of Glock pistol and a Ruger 10/22.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:09 PM (XkWWK)

2 I think Obama is driving it and it is both groups equally. Need better choices for the poll.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:10 PM (53z96)

3 Shotgun shells are still plentiful at my local Walmart. In fact, I haven't seen any dip in 12g or 410 rounds. They are always there whenever I go.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:10 PM (GQ8sn)

4 Maybe I'll try for a Ruger mini-14 though those are getting very pricey.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:10 PM (XkWWK)

5 Hey.. it's stimulus for gun store owners! That Barack fella is a genius!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 29, 2013 12:10 PM (f9c2L)

6 From here in deep-blue NY, I have been reporting that gun sales are through the roof. The American Legion in my smallish town had to rent extra space for the permit courses, so I imagine the same is going on on a larger scale in bigger towns.

All kinds of people I never would have figured to be interested in owning a gun are running out to get the permit process started...it can take a year or more in NY.

The reason, the ONLY reason I am hearing: TYRANNY from the Government.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 29, 2013 12:10 PM (7ObY1)

7 Bought my first gun last Saturday. It's in jail right now. I live in CA.

Posted by: Eddie Baby at January 29, 2013 12:11 PM (fgyhj)

8 I read something that said between Nov of last year and now, enough guns were purchased to outfit the entire Chinese army. That's amazing.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:11 PM (GQ8sn)

9 .22lr = coin of the realm, post LIB.

Posted by: Joe Mama at January 29, 2013 12:11 PM (P4cxa)

10 It sounds like you have the solution to your quandry right there: Why are Ruger 10/22s so scarce? Why are all these people saying "I never owned a gun, but I want to buy something today."?

So why not ask yourself the obvious follow up question: If I were going to recommend a gun to a new shooter, what would it be?

Personally, I would recommend a Ruger 10/22.

Posted by: Darkmage at January 29, 2013 12:11 PM (F45Zi)

11 it's driven by PANIC. A lot of my friends / family who own no guns or maybe 1 are arming up with anything they can find because they're scared about whats coming next.

Posted by: Timin203 at January 29, 2013 12:11 PM (5WxMt)

12 Related, and amusing.
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/162434/

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 29, 2013 12:12 PM (ZKzrr)

13 I've never felt the need to own a gun, but the wife and I are discussing it now. We are almost certainly not alone.

Maybe one of the cobs could do a beginning guns post for morons like me? I can't be the only one.

Posted by: Some Asshole at January 29, 2013 12:12 PM (+A7/9)

14 The Clinton-era buying spree did not have the threat of the "zombie apocalypse" looming over it.

I think that is what is pushing demand today.

Posted by: Nighthawk at January 29, 2013 12:12 PM (RSqz2)

15 My Walmart still has lots of bolt action hunting rifles. I don't think those were ever in short supply, only the semi-auto kind like AR's and AK.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:12 PM (GQ8sn)

16 I planned to get a firearm this year, but NYC has made it so expensive I'm not sure if I can afford the license and the firearm. I'm going to try though. There is a lawsuit on the books now about the cost being there only to prohibit the people from exercising their rights and not to cover any administrative costs, hopefully it will work out in favor of the citizens.

Posted by: Heralder at January 29, 2013 12:13 PM (+xmn4)

17 I am not buying right now. But the reason I'm not is because I was careless and lost my guns in a boating accident.


I should have to wait until everyone else has a chance to get theirs.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:13 PM (53z96)

18 >> I think Obama is driving it and it is both groups equally. Need better choices for the poll.

Why? You just answered with one of the choices.

Posted by: Andy at January 29, 2013 12:13 PM (C/NnJ)

19 There is a gun post every Sunday. Go back through the archives and look at ones there about 3 weeks worth now I think.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:14 PM (53z96)

20 Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 29, 2013 12:12 PM

That's *awesome*. And in Seattle, no less.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (B/VB5)

21 16 Posted by: Heralder at January 29, 2013 12:13 PM (+xmn4)

See my post #1. I live in Manhattan. It will definitely be an expense but I will bite the bullet (so to speak) on other things and save the shekels for the guns and the licensing.

Whereabouts are you?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (XkWWK)

22 >> I am not buying right now. But the reason I'm not is because I was careless and lost my guns in a boating accident.

You too?

Damn that seems to be happening a lot. Pretty soon there will be lakes that you can walk across on piles of guns.

Posted by: Andy at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (C/NnJ)

23 Bought my first gun last Saturday. It's in jail right now. I live in CA.

The Auburn gun show, online, regular store...?

Posted by: t-bird at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (FcR7P)

24 I scored 100 rounds of 22long from my local gunshop saturday. 9 dollars the dude charged me, I thought he was gonna make me give him a handy.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (41VCE)

25
It's a reflection of the "new normal".

Why else would the most popular subjects for reality TV shows be guns and pawn shops?

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (tOkJB)

26 I was a first time buyer back after the TFG got elected because I didn't trust anything coming out of his administration.

The last four years haven't really done anything to dissuade me of that. I'd like to get some sort of rifle/shotgun, but I'm in the middle of moving to NH so I more or less put it on the back burner for the moment.

Posted by: Gaff at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (uh3SH)

27 I bought two rifles in the last month, I have now operated or owned a gun in over 20 years.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:16 PM (41VCE)

28 now = not

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:16 PM (41VCE)

29 We're buying, too! Trade in your husband's Mean Old Racist Gun that he just bought last weekend for a $100 gift card!

Posted by: Amazon.com and The Seattle Police Dept. at January 29, 2013 12:16 PM (FcR7P)

30 Any gun morons have an opinion on the Mk 318 Mod 0 round for AR's? I'm debating whether or not to fork over the extra money to get this when the "green tips" are more or less the same.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:17 PM (GQ8sn)

31 I bought my first gun in November. I grew up in a gun-free household. I was even in the military for many years, and never felt the need for one. Unfortunately, it seems that this society is on a collision course with reality. I think the idealists are going to see pretty soon that their social goals cannot be advanced forever while they simultaneously undermine the economy and the social contract.

Posted by: Peej at January 29, 2013 12:17 PM (ctaN6)

32 Seeing the same John. BIL just bought a Spring XD 9mm, and he is an Obama voter. Gun ranges are packed all hours in KC here. Most gun stores are down to half inventory, if that. Mostly double barrel shotguns, hunting rifles, small selection of semi-auto pistols. There is wisdom in crowds. People, whether they will admit it or not, understand a reckoning is coming. Dunno if it will be 1929 us, late 90s Argentina, Franco's Spain, or Weimar Germany. But dark clouds are on the horizon. Grow a garden this year folks. Learn to can too.

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at January 29, 2013 12:18 PM (Yv6gq)

33 They're all racist for Opposing the god-king.

Live fire exercises in Miami. Simulated live fire exercises in Houston. Alphabet soup agencies stocking billions of rounds of ammo, procuring weapons by the warehouse-load. NDAA permitting secret assassinations and indefinite detention. 30,000 domestic drones by 2015. II can't imagine why, besides racism, that people are getting armed and afraid.

I love this blog. But the real fight isn't amnesty. It's why GOP reps/sens supported the NDAA. And I know it's a banned topic, but I still think Brietbart, and the coroner, got NDAA'd by Obama

Posted by: Hopeless at January 29, 2013 12:18 PM (62WS0)

34 Me.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:18 PM (wbmaj)

35 First time buyers.

When I go to pick up ammo there are a lot of new buyers.

Further a lot of people are buying classes of weapon they previously lacked.

"I've never needed a rifle here in Indiana there are restrictions on hunting with heavy rifles in a lot of the state anyway."

People get what's coming I think.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:19 PM (LRFds)

36 Homeland Security is buying crap loads of ammo.. 1.5 billion rounds in the last 6 months alone. 450 million rounds of .40 cal hollow points. Tens of millions of other calibers. Lots of .223 cal for their "assault" rifles. They are prepping for war. I am stocking up on ammo. I have 1K 9mm and 1200 .223/5.56 with more on the way. 10 30 round mags filled with more 30 round mags on back order

Posted by: TC at January 29, 2013 12:19 PM (vYB+W)

37 Did a ppt for a new handgun at a store.

Posted by: Eddie Baby at January 29, 2013 12:19 PM (fgyhj)

38 When I moved 10 years ago I sold all my reloading supplies because I didn't feel like lugging it all 300 miles.

Wish I hadn't done that...

Posted by: Nighthawk at January 29, 2013 12:19 PM (RSqz2)

39 I just love racking my shot gun.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (wbmaj)

40 I'm debating whether or not to fork over the extra money to get this when the "green tips" are more or less the same.


Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:17 PM (GQ8sn)

Green Tips (SS109) are near useless as an anti- personnel round. Good for destroying machinery, though.

Posted by: Joe Mama at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (P4cxa)

41 Well you know maybe the Obama adminstration is smarter than we think and is depleting the supply of guns by buying them all up as well as ammo. No doubt a lot of us are buying but let's not discount the possibility that the government is simply outbidding us.

Posted by: pierrelegrand at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (52h7T)

42
See my post #1. I live in Manhattan. It will definitely be an expense but I will bite the bullet (so to speak) on other things and save the shekels for the guns and the licensing.
Whereabouts are you?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:15 PM (XkWWK)

I live in Brooklyn. Cost is a concern because my wife is trying to start her own business and right now there is little to no profit, so we're living off of my meager salary only. I am going to seriously budget though, and try to make it work.
She agrees with the idea, and has said she wants us to attend courses when we get one, so that's good.

Posted by: Heralder at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (+xmn4)

43 Have to laugh at the Seattle PD who proclaimed success at their trade your gun for a gift card day

They claim they ran out of cards and private buyers gave them cash instead of IOU's

Since the MSM isn't going to challenge that, I suspect that the SPD had plenty of cards left over, they just ran out of suckers who would take a $100 gift card over $400 in cash

Posted by: kbdabear at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (wwsoB)

44 I think it's two different questions. The scarcity of guns is driven by first time buyers. The scarcity of ammo is driven by existing owners.


Gander Mtn here in Jacksonville now has people camping out starting at 3am on the morning their ammo shipment arrives. 20 - 30 ppl waiting at the door when they open and a basic free-for-all in the ammo section. That's not the behavior of newbs.


All of that is, of course, just my opinion.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (da5Wo)

45 Skyrocketing Recordbreaking Gun sales?

Yeah, that was me.

Posted by: The Law of Unintended Consequences at January 29, 2013 12:21 PM (EZl54)

46
"I read something that said between Nov of last year and now, enough guns were purchased to outfit the entire Chinese army. That's amazing."

Correction: Enough to outfit the entire Chinese AND Indian Armies.

They're not buying them to turn right around and turn them in to Big Brother.

Posted by: Jaws at January 29, 2013 12:21 PM (4I3Uo)

47 4 JJ Sefton,

The Ruger Mini-14 is a nice weapon. A few things....

1) make sure you get a 5.56 marked receiver if possible the .223 can get finicky with fullpower Mil 5.56

2) understand that the Ruger may depending on production run have barrel harmonics issues(these can be fixed but it is an added cost for near MoA accuracy)

3) mags are not interchangeable with the AR family sadly.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:22 PM (LRFds)

48 10/22's are semi-automatic with removable magazines, actually quite likely to be on a future banned list, IMO. Also many of variants are scary black so, there's that too.

I went to the range recently and practically everyone around me appeared to be a first time shooter although I may have been in the middle of a firearms safety class, there seemed to be an instructor. Made me feel pretty good about my groupings though

Posted by: BuckIV at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (gedHR)

49 I had one of those Ruger Mini-14 rifles chambered in a .223 round years ago. I got rid of it (and the dies) because the rounds were just too hard to reload. Every time I got into a rhythm with the press I would pinch my fingers when seating the bullets.


What's more it is not that effective a round. The military likes it because the troops can hump more rounds. But the larger .30 cal rifles were still more effective. In fact the SF still carried M-14s for a long time.


If I were buying a new rifle now (of the ugly military looking type) I would get it chambered in the .308 (NATO).

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (53z96)

50
5 Hey.. it's stimulus for gun store owners! That Barack fella is a genius!

Salesman of the month, 4+ years running.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (1hM1d)

51 Correction: Enough to outfit the entire Chinese AND Indian Armies.

Where does the DHS rank on that list?

Posted by: t-bird at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (FcR7P)

52 I think the run on .22lr and of a variety of guns in general is that on top of the Sandy Hook shooting, the Christmas and hunting retail seasons took a lot of product off the shelves. Now manufacturers are trying to maximize their utilization of scarce resources (brass, completed barrel blanks, etc...).

While bolt action rifles will not likely be banned in the foreseeable future, the raw materials & production capacity to make them are better used by manufacturers to produce AR-15 variants during this time frame. Same goes with lead and brass - divert production of .223 and 9mm for .22LR, or fill a very immediate demand now.

I believe it will probably take six months and a fair number of pawn shop transactions (guns aren't cheap and bills need to be paid) before the market settles back down a bit.

Posted by: Mauser757 at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (A4YqN)

53 42 Posted by: Heralder at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (+xmn4)

I'm Brooklyn born and bred. Anyway, Charlie Brown's D--do is organizing a Moron Meet-Up for sometime next month, so stay tuned for info.

Money is tight for me too but it is worth it to arm up while we can.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (XkWWK)

54 Green Tips (SS109) are near useless as an anti- personnel round. Good for destroying machinery, though.

These Mk 318's are supposed to be similar in type; they are "barrier blind" and will penetrate objects to reach what's behind. The Mk 318's are open tipped, but are not hollow points.

Do you know if these are "better" at penetrating than the SS109's?

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (GQ8sn)

55 The NRA sends me a check every month to go buy guns. /sarc

Posted by: Hand Solo at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (9/kKc)

56
"am not buying right now. But the reason I'm not is because I was careless and lost my guns in a boating accident.

You too?

Damn that seems to be happening a lot. Pretty soon there will be lakes that you can walk across on piles of guns."
Hmm. Same here. Amazing thing is that I sold the boat ~ a half decade ago.

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 12:24 PM (lbiWb)

57 Hope to get my permit soon. My reason was more to due to Superstorm Sandy than Sandy Hook.

Having been in the military, i'm most famliar with the M16style but the Mrs. has vetoed that for now so i'll just buy what whatever handgun my father in law recommends (ex-cop and Coastie).

A firearm should be part of every family's survival kit but not saying you have to. You should be able to buy the most effective firearm to protect your family from criminals, wild animals, zombies, or gov't that is tryannical.

Posted by: dnice at January 29, 2013 12:24 PM (Tnt6v)

58 Damn I'm still looking for a third gun. Handgun or another rifle, decisions decisions....

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:24 PM (41VCE)

59 Bought a Taurus 24/7 G2 9mm last year. Wife is looking at a Sig.

Sig has an interesting deal. Buy a Sig 22 pistol, and get an upgrade kit to 9mm, instead of just the straight up 9mm. It ends up being almost $200 cheaper, and you get 'two' pistols. A 22 and a 9. Of course, there's some switching out to do, but so what.

I'm still looking to a 9mm carbine. None of those around, either.

Posted by: CUS at January 29, 2013 12:24 PM (84pE9)

60 The SPD says they'll run the serial numbers to see which guns were stolen

Save yourself the paperwork chief, and write down "all of them"

Posted by: kbdabear at January 29, 2013 12:24 PM (wwsoB)

61 When my husband was about 10, he went fishing with his grandfather. Year was 1978. His grandfather said that when people were willing to pay for water in a bottle that that was when we needed to start worrying that the country was going to fall apart. He told my husband that some day, a .22 caliber bullet would be worth more than a dollar bill, and that he should always, ALWAYS stock up. My husband's grandfather was wiser than we could have ever known. Needless to say, we will not soon be running out of .22 for our guns. We've been stockpiling for two decades.

Posted by: HoneyBadgerDon'tCare at January 29, 2013 12:24 PM (NDZ9b)

62 Machine-gun-wearing fanatic defends former Democratic Party HQ!!!11!!

Posted by: andycanuck at January 29, 2013 12:24 PM (ORGYc)

63 I really like my min-14, but as with so many of my fellow morons, it fell over the side during a tragic boating accident...however, that being said, would advise against purchase now (and only right now) because of the scarcity of .223/5.56 ammunition.

After many trips to brick and mortar and online stores, it appears that .380 and shotgun ammunition is the only plentiful stuff around.

BTW, the mini unfortunately left over a 1,000 rounds of ammunition behind...sniff...

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at January 29, 2013 12:25 PM (RIm0W)

64 I want to go skeet shooting with Dear Leader and Janet "the Bull" Napolitano. I'll invite Dick Cheney as well.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:25 PM (wbmaj)

65 Green Tips (SS109) are near useless as an anti- personnel round. Good for destroying machinery, though.

Well, I wouldn't want to personally test that theory.

Posted by: The bad guy at January 29, 2013 12:25 PM (vbh31)

66 59- Where at? I love the sound of, and always wanted a sig

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:25 PM (41VCE)

67 46 Jaws,

and the minority buyers and there are many are not buying to turn them in either.....

and I welcome their joining our ranks...

I do hope they remember I am not the one wanting people persecuted when the time comes.

We are CITIZENS not subjects all of us.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:25 PM (LRFds)

68
53 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (XkWWK)
Great, I'll look out for that! I'm from Massachussetts originally. Sometimes I consider moving back up to escape the city.

Posted by: Heralder at January 29, 2013 12:26 PM (+xmn4)

69 I am tempted to buy a few stripped AR15 lowers, just to have.

Why?

Because fuck you. That's why.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 29, 2013 12:27 PM (GsoHv)

70 49 Vic,

.308 is a good round for older shooters (no offense sincerely)and trained shooters it is a bit robust for novices.

There's more reasons than just the ability to ruck more go go brass for the 5.56's staying power....though if I were king for a day I would probably go to 6.5 grendel....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:27 PM (LRFds)

71 I love my .351 Winchester Self-Loader. Does that make me a bad person?

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:27 PM (wbmaj)

72 10 Government gets too big to sustain
20 Standard of living drops
30 Writing on wall, buy guns and ammo
40 Goto 10

Posted by: Regular Moron at January 29, 2013 12:27 PM (feFL6)

73 What's the sweetest sound in the world? When Reggie says, "Pull!"

Posted by: Barky O at January 29, 2013 12:28 PM (FcR7P)

74 I'm one of the recent buyers. I learned to shoot as a young man, but in the time since had just never had much need and inclination to put money into guns and ammo. But I'm now equipped with a modest array of long guns.

Observations from the Mid-Atlantic:

* Anything semiauto has gotten very scare. I was one of those looking for a good ol' Ruger 10/22, and had a hell of time. Finally got one at a gun show a few weeks back, but it was literally a case of people almost grabbing them away from each other in eagerness to buy. Also at the show, my impression was that a large chunk of the people were NOT long-time owners and serious collectors.

* The ammo shelves everywhere look like a Soviet supermarket. At any of my local shops, they just laugh at a request for .223, and yes...even the humble .22LR. The cabinet at the local Wal-Mart has been near-barren since the election, and they have a 3-box per customer per day limit. I was pleasantly shocked to find .223 there last week.

* Shotguns and bolt-action rifles are still fairly plentiful. But ammo for them...not so much.

Posted by: Stu-22 at January 29, 2013 12:28 PM (AiYlm)

75 Today's historic demand for Erin Burnett ... in my pants

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 29, 2013 12:28 PM (8/DeP)

76 I'm going to invest in some SCUBA gear and go check out some of these lakes for myself. Sounds like there's a frickin' arsenal straight out of The Matrix down there!

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:28 PM (GQ8sn)

77 Do you know if these are "better" at penetrating than the SS109's?


Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (GQ8sn)

I have no data on that round, just the SS109. The green tips might be just the ticket for "skeet or clay pigeon" suppression, should the need arise.

Posted by: Joe Mama at January 29, 2013 12:28 PM (P4cxa)

78 Posted by: Joe Mama at January 29, 2013 12:20 PM (P4cxa)

Useless?

60 grains hitting you at 2800fps is going to cause damage, no matter what.

If you are lucky it will hit nothing vital, and all you will have is the damage from hydrostatic shock.

If you are unlucky, it will sever an artery or hit your heart or liver or diaphragm or brain.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 29, 2013 12:29 PM (GsoHv)

79 Two of my three brothers and a brother-in-law have bought guns for the first timein the last 6 months. We are all 2A supporters but now it seems that we feel the need to put our money where our mouth is. We can't expect to keep a right that we personally are not willing to exercise. That sucks but it's true. The only way we keep the gun-grabbers at bay is by facts on the ground. They cannot confiscate 300 million guns.

I was "thisclose" to getting my liberal husband to buy a gun and both of us take shooting lessons. I've wanted to do it for a long time and even learn to hunt. But then Newtown happened, and now he thinks every gun is The Gun That Killed Those Poor Little Kids. Hopefully all this nonsense dies down soon and I can start working on him again.

Posted by: rockmom at January 29, 2013 12:29 PM (aBlZ1)

80 1) make sure you get a 5.56 marked receiver if possible the .223 can get finicky with fullpower Mil 5.56


5.56 in a barrel marked .223 can go boom.in your face.

Posted by: TC at January 29, 2013 12:29 PM (vYB+W)

81 I just want to remind everyone that many of these firearms flying off the shelf aren't being purchased by people that hold our view of a free nation.

As I said. It's just a reminder.

Posted by: Soona at January 29, 2013 12:30 PM (Kk3Lm)

82 78 CBD,

Bing .223 stopping power

it has a nice 95% takedown rate.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:30 PM (LRFds)

83 rockmom


ditch the liberal hubby

Posted by: TC at January 29, 2013 12:30 PM (vYB+W)

84 The .22lr is the learning ammo. And a bit of many buys a lot of rounds. Definitely flying off the shelves. People I know who own only a .22 bolt have at least 500 rounds in the closet.

Posted by: Jack at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (vY2MW)

85 Shotguns and bolt-action rifles are still fairly plentiful. But ammo for them...not so much.

I'm seeing the opposite at my Walmart. They have 12, 16, 20, and 410 gauge on the shelves everyday, looking like it's been untouched. I also see rifle rounds of the .243, 270, and 7mm Rem there too. Those seem to be relatively unwanted compared to .223 and .308.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (GQ8sn)

86 Even shotgun ammunition is picked over. If you want target loads, great, but I had a heck of a time finding 00 buck this weekend.

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (eytER)

87 60 grains hitting you at 2800fps is going to cause damage, no matter what.

Indeed, I can't think of anything worse than needing medical attention in the future.

Posted by: t-bird at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (FcR7P)

88 81 Soona,

That's correct if it all falls to anarchy not everyone in uniform is a foe....not every armed citizen a buddy...

know you neighbors and "welcome to Sarejevo"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (LRFds)

89 I'm debating selling some of mine while the prices are high. The most tempting sale is a MK760 semi auto price is high right now and it is a heavy piece of shit.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (81UWZ)

90 Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:23 PM (53z96)

I think they both have their advantages, but I agree, the .308 is a great all-around load.

And speaking of ugly military rifle.....

http://tinyurl.com/ckg7tvw

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (GsoHv)

91 Is Dear Leader more dangerous when he goes skeet shooting or golfing?

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (wbmaj)

92 All this makes me wonder if there will be a dip in quality. If your people are running balls to the wall three shifts a day then there might be a problem with quality control.

Posted by: joncelli at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (RD7QR)

93 What do the morons think?

I think you are right. I know three people who in the last two months have gotten one for the first time. I'm not one, but I'd like to be one. I just haven't the money right now.

Posted by: Dusty at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (KR2Ca)

94 I am currently coaching two people thru their first buys. They have picked some beauties.
Baby Eagle .40
SW MP 9mm
M1 Carbine
More guns to come!

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (uhftQ)

95 A week ago I dropped into a local gun store to see if they had any 8 mm Mauser (Score! 100 rds.!) I was checking out the pistol case and a guy comes up and asks if I knew a lot about guns. What followed was 15 mins on how to choose a pistol.

He also said he had decided to buy before they're banned. I overheard similar conversations at two other stores.

So, yeah, LOTS of new buyers.

Posted by: John W. at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (3Tyri)

96 On my most recent trip to the range (The Silver Bullet) there was mostly guys but also several women- including 2 moms who came in with their sons who looked to be about 11-12 years of age.

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (8sCoq)

97
The disappearance of 10/22s goes deeper than just "getting our hands on something now".
Sure, it's cheap. Ammo ischeap. And, for a new shooter, it's FUN to shoot. No recoil, small bang - not scary.
But, for many others, it's regarded as the ultimate "survivalist" rifle. Parts for it can be found everywhere, it's light and easy to clean, again small bang (quiet) and, again, ammo is cheap. You can drop 2,000 rounds of .22 lr in your backpack and barely feel them.
I suspect people buying these are buying them as much for their "survival" reputation as they are just to "get something". Meaning - many purchasers see more than just getting a rifle before they're gone. They're getting these 10/22s for the end times. As people are doing with so many other rifles.
My SIG 522 is FUN FUN FUN. But if/when crap were to go down it's nice knowing you can sling 26 rounds in eight seconds from a "wimpy" gun. Those pebbles'd hurt.

Posted by: JDW at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (g2rsW)

98 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (8y9MW)

99 We interrupt this thread: Hearing that Anthony Weiner is close to announcing that he is running again. (Insert Jokes Here)

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (pDRpv)

100 I was "thisclose" to getting my liberal husband to buy a gun and both of
us take shooting lessons. I've wanted to do it for a long time and even
learn to hunt. But then Newtown happened, and now he thinks every gun
is The Gun That Killed Those Poor Little Kids. Hopefully all this
nonsense dies down soon and I can start working on him again.


Well...there is one way you could convince him.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (GQ8sn)

101 First time buyer here too. Just got a 12 gauge and joined NRA. Cancelled my newspaper subscription as well.

Posted by: real joe at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (Rg5t/)

102 Purely anecdotal:

Dropped by my local "fun" store on Saturday afternoon. Looked like a bomb went off behind the counter. And the store was packed with folks looking over what was left - quite a few were readily identifiable as first-time gun owners.

.223 was going for a buck a round. I'm not shitting you.

The empty walls and showcases - and ammo prices for what was available - tell us everything we need to know about what's going on.

Posted by: eastvalleyphx at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (GRvW4)

103 Do Chicagoans do a lot of skeet shooting? I never knew.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (wbmaj)

104 Oooo. The M1 carbine. The home protection gun of the '50s. And one of my favorites.

Posted by: Jack at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (vY2MW)

105 66
59- Where at? I love the sound of, and always wanted a sig

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:25 PM (41VCE)
---Any Sig dealer. It is an offer from the manufacturer themselves.

Posted by: CUS at January 29, 2013 12:34 PM (84pE9)

106 And speaking of ugly military rifle.....

http://tinyurl.com/ckg7tvw


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (GsoHv)

Obviously a military assault weapon not needed by anyone.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:34 PM (53z96)

107 Speaking purely from anecdote, I think new buyers are fueling demand. I've gotten more texts from the blue about guns from people who never had them in the last few months than I had in my entire life.
My sister called me to ask about a pistol, and she has rarely fired a gun, and my dad had me call up my arms dealer (who sadly is on my speed dial) and order him an ultra evil Colt 6920. My dad rarely fires a gun and at one time made fun of me for my EBRs.

As an objective bit of evidence for this hypothesis, newbies are also the only way I can explain so many shittyguns I wouldn't buy being sold out. Just to get their hands on something. Its the worst case scenario for the grabbers - now they have created a new cadre of people who have something to lose.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:34 PM (t06LC)

108 Its not at all unheard of for .22 LR to be off the shelves. That's by far the most popular ammo type, arguably the most useful (for practice) and its the cheapest on a per-round basis.

Exactly same thing happened four years ago, Obama was sworn into office the first time.


Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 12:34 PM (6Q9g2)

109 81 - At Gander mountain this weekend one guy was telling me "yeah stock up buddy they not getting my shit" He took me by surprise and I just said "yeah man I hear you" I should have shook his hand.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:34 PM (41VCE)

110 10/22? Choate folding stock, 25 round mags, 18in bull barrel, and scoped...check.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 12:35 PM (uhftQ)

111 OK, back to the thread. A friend who teaches conceil / carry here in MN, is booked throughout 2013. Majority are women and couples. Makes a great anniversary gift!

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 29, 2013 12:35 PM (pDRpv)

112 104 Jack,

Yeah Ayoob and Cirillio both are fans of .30 carbine....the latter had several applications of hard retirement counseling in NYC's stakeout squad during the crime wave in the '70s.

He said the .30 carbine never failed to satisfy the client.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:35 PM (LRFds)

113 rockmom

you can do it with out him.....go to a range and rent a hand gun, the range master will show you everything you need to know...you don't need the husband to go with you or even participate in your gun education or purchase.

Posted by: phoenixgirl waiting for spring training at January 29, 2013 12:35 PM (GVxQo)

114 Why are they flying off the shelves?

People believe (rightly or wrongly) that they'll be unavailable in the future.

Couple it with a growingly bad economy, and a lot of people are feeling all sorts of uncertainty.

It really IS that simple.

Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (6Q9g2)

115 #99 Is it true he is going to announce from his shower stall?

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (wbmaj)

116 I love my .351 Winchester Self-Loader. Does that make me a bad person?

No. It makes you someone who should be out chasing moonshiners in a '34 Ford V8.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (SY2Kh)

117 Posted by: rockmom at January 29, 2013 12:29 PM (aBlZ1)

Withhold sex, and make the same thing for dinner every night.

And explain patiently that all will return to normal once he appreciates the 2nd amendment.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (GsoHv)

118 And speaking of ugly military rifle.....

http://tinyurl.com/ckg7tvw


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (GsoHv)

Ugly like Kate Upton taking a baby oil bath.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (GQ8sn)

119

OT'ish - Rubio coming up on Rush. I don't expect Rush to be all that rough.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (XkWWK)

120 Oooo. The M1 carbine. The home protection gun of the '50s. And one of my favorites.
Posted by: Jack at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (vY2MW)

Got 3. AWinnie, National Postal Meter, and a GM. Nice rifle. The .30 carbine reminds me of a .357. Ammo available in most stores, mags are a bit harder. A lot of history there though.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (t06LC)

121 i purchased a weapon in early dec that still hasn't arrived......

Posted by: phoenixgirl waiting for spring training at January 29, 2013 12:37 PM (GVxQo)

122 Now you guys have me thinking about wanting a rifle. But not a scary black plastic-y rifle. A beautiful instrument of death, old school, wood stock and body, semi auto, takes big magazines, large caliber.

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:37 PM (8sCoq)

123 @115 "Weiner Rises Again"

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 29, 2013 12:37 PM (pDRpv)

124 #116 I got it from the estate of Baby Face Nelson. I can't fire it as fast as he could, though

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:37 PM (wbmaj)

125 I'm seeing the opposite at my Walmart. They have 12,
16, 20, and 410 gauge on the shelves everyday, looking like it's been
untouched. I also see rifle rounds of the .243, 270, and 7mm Rem there
too. Those seem to be relatively unwanted compared to .223 and .308.


Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (GQ8sn)

Yeah, the calibers (.243, 270, and 7mm Rem) that are pretty much just for bolt-action deer rifles are still pretty easy to find. Anything that's used in a semiauto...not so much. As for shotgun shells, bird and target loads are plentiful enough. But slugs or buckshot...not so much.

Posted by: Stu-22 at January 29, 2013 12:37 PM (AiYlm)

126 99 We interrupt this thread: Hearing that Anthony Weiner is close to announcing that he is running again. (Insert Jokes Here)

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (pDRpv)


Oh, great. Hopefully, I will be out of this once great city before that scroungey fucking piece of shit becomes mayor.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 29, 2013 12:38 PM (XkWWK)

127 you can do it with out him.....go to a range and rent a hand gun, the
range master will show you everything you need to know...you don't need
the husband to go with you or even participate in your gun education or
purchase.


Nor, frankly, should you wait for him to "see the light."

At some point, you may well wish (or be glad) you had taken that course and gotten a gun over his protestations.

My wife was not a fan of me getting a handgun. I forced her (for a given value of forced) to at least become familiar with it- how to check it, basic safety, how to insert or eject a magazine, etc. Now she goes shooting with me.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 12:38 PM (8y9MW)

128 On my most recent trip to the range (The Silver
Bullet) there was mostly guys but also several women- including 2 moms
who came in with their sons who looked to be about 11-12 years of age.


Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:32 PM (8sCoq)

Jones: you must be in north metro. The SB is always packed when I try to get some trigger time in. I'm up south of Boulder, BTW.

Posted by: Joe Mama at January 29, 2013 12:38 PM (P4cxa)

129 M1 Carbine the choice here in Mexifornia, when you Channel Audy Murphy...

Posted by: Clemenza at January 29, 2013 12:38 PM (Q8Pu5)

130 However, in my recent trips to gun shows and outdoor sporting goods stores, I've noticed a large number of new buyers.

How can you tell? Is it the guys asking which end points which way?

Posted by: eleven at January 29, 2013 12:38 PM (KXm42)

131 36
Homeland Security is buying crap loads of ammo.. 1.5 billion rounds in
the last 6 months alone. 450 million rounds of .40 cal hollow points.
Tens of millions of other calibers. Lots of .223 cal for their "assault"
rifles. They are prepping for war. I am stocking up on ammo. I have 1K
9mm and 1200 .223/5.56 with more on the way. 10 30 round mags filled
with more 30 round mags on back order


Posted by: TC at January 29, 2013 12:19 PM (vYB+W)

This. I saw it written on the wall during the campaign season of 2008. I am well regulated, thank you, and equipped to lend to the unprepared. No need to stock anymore, especially at today's prices.

Posted by: Flounder at January 29, 2013 12:39 PM (Kkt/i)

132 Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (GQ8sn)

$3k list.

Painful. But it is so, so tempting.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 29, 2013 12:39 PM (GsoHv)

133 >>> Its not at all unheard of for .22 LR to be off the shelves. That's by far the most popular ammo type, arguably the most useful (for practice) and its the cheapest on a per-round basis.

Nationwide?

Posted by: JohnE. at January 29, 2013 12:39 PM (nRTou)

134 I read somewhere that new gun owners are about 25% of those in the current panic buying spree.

No link, because lazy.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 29, 2013 12:39 PM (SY2Kh)

135 69
I am tempted to buy a few stripped AR15 lowers, just to have.

At Colfax delivery estimated to be in November for .223 and Fall for .308. I suggest you place an order now rather than later.

Posted by: BuckIV at January 29, 2013 12:39 PM (gedHR)

136 I'm more worried about the FSA and a minor breakdown of law. than government seizure at this point(crossing my fingers). I had family in the Katrina business, and that shit was not fucking pretty. Have a plan folks, even a flimsy plan and 22 ruger is better than doing nothing. I have a real newb scared of guns type in the house, and even he is saying "Yes we need guns, get them" I am trying to train him on a 22 to get started.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:39 PM (41VCE)

137 seen the same thing at the local stores in Houston,tx.

Posted by: rex at January 29, 2013 12:40 PM (C72+Y)

138 I am surprised anyone is buying an M1 carbine as an everyday weapon. Yes they are a nice rifle and they are almost as easy to shoot as a 10/22. But the prices on them are now through the roof unless you get a cheap copycat.



For example, my brother used to have an Underwood model. They are going for in excess of $2K now.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:40 PM (53z96)

139 With his terrorist connections, how did President Skeeter pass a background check?

Posted by: CraigPoe at January 29, 2013 12:40 PM (BVkEs)

140 Obama's Volunteers for America coming to disarm you soon.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:40 PM (wbmaj)

141 >Jones: you must be in north metro.

I live between Denver and Golden. I call it Fat City.

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:40 PM (8sCoq)

142 Now you guys have me thinking about wanting a rifle. But not a scary black plastic-y rifle. A beautiful instrument of death, old school, wood stock and body, semi auto, takes big magazines, large caliber.
Posted by: Jones in CO
***********************************************
M1 Rifle .308

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 12:40 PM (uhftQ)

143 Bummer about the boating accidents.

I loaned mine to a guy named Mike. (Can't remember his last name, sorry.) He went up north, promised to bring 'em back when he was done.

Anybody see Mike round your hood?

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (1Ialr)

144 Looks like I'm going up to Alaska this spring. Is it feasible or legal to buy up there and ship or have shipped to me in CA? Who knows, they may have just as bad a shortage up there. But, just in case.

Posted by: t-bird at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (FcR7P)

145
"Now you guys have me thinking about wanting a rifle. But not a scary black plastic-y rifle. A beautiful instrument of death, old school, wood stock and body, semi auto, takes big magazines, large caliber"
Now we're talking. All of this plastic mumbo jumbo can go away - give me American Walnut, Monte Carlo Stock, and a sufficient caliber load, and I'll reach out touch...

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (lbiWb)

146 I, for one, am one of the non-gun-owning 2A supporters who is investigating getting his first gun. No idea what kind yet but yes, the current fervor by the left is a driving force behind this.

Posted by: Dale at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (Q+YpN)

147 I think new buyers are the demand for guns, existing owners for the ammo.

The one exception to bolt action inventory would be the Mosin. I've seen those wiped out, probably as impulse buys

Posted by: Rizzyg at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (4TLpH)

148 22L is still out there, I ordered some from cheaper than dirt last week. 9mm is around too just still pricey in a lot of stores local. I think if you troll some of the smaller shops you can find some 22l.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (41VCE)

149 I am looking to find a Marlin Camp 9. Marlin does not make them anymore--sadly. If I cannot find any other 9mm carbine.

Posted by: CUS at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (84pE9)

150 @81

I for one would like to see the numbers of mass purchases done on govt purchase orders and charge cards as well as the volume of items per sale with the " straw purchasers.

DOJ got a lot of experience with straw purchasing.

What if the mass firearms and ammo purchases and resultant shortages are due to gun control supporter funded purchases?

And then someone like Eric Holder would discourage investing in firearms manufacturers.

What if freedom loving American represent only a tiny percentage of the firearms purchases and in reality , the regime is purchasing them and stockpiling or destroying them.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Posted by: T. Hunter at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (EZl54)

151 #40 Green Tips (SS109) are near useless as an anti- personnel round. Good for destroying machinery, though.

Bulls#$t.

First of all the green tips are m855s (not ss109s).

Second of all, external ballistics are basically the same as the ss109s. They'll f*ck up anything soft they hit just as badly. The desgination of these rounds is "antipersonnel/light armor piercing". Hint. . .the "antipersonnel" means they're desgined for causing wounds in humans.

Lastly, they most certainly are NOT good at destroying machinery. They're not true armor piercing rounds, and have only a small soft steel core. They're basically good enough for piercing light armor (ie helmets) or cover, only.


Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (PwGfd)

152
The better question, and it may be obvious, is 'why is the demand rising?'

I think it is more people believing in chaos from a potential collapse or something where the police aren't available than it is from gun bans.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (p/cQy)

153 Even shotgun ammunition is picked over. If you want target loads, great, but I had a heck of a time finding 00 buck this weekend.
Posted by: @JohnTant at January 29, 2013 12:31 PM (eytER)


------------------------------------------------


Cheaper Than Dirt had some (00 2 3/4") at a decent price two weeks ago. Don't know if it's still there.

Posted by: Soona at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (Kk3Lm)

154 I got it from the estate of Baby Face Nelson. I can't fire it as fast as he could, though.

Seriously? That's one hell of a collector piece if you have documentation.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (SY2Kh)

155 #131 - Yeah - that's some scary crap right there. If a gun ban were imposed, someone would have to do the imposing - that is, local law enforcement or even National Guard. Some hold out hope that cops or weekend warriors wouldn't obey such an order. I disagree. They know where their bread is buttered. That government paycheck is a hard thing to throw away if they ask you to knock on your neighbor's door.

Posted by: JDW at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (g2rsW)

156 99We interrupt this thread: Hearing that Anthony Weiner is close to announcing that he is running again. (Insert Jokes Here - Weiner goes up for office.)
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 29, 2013 12:33 PM (pDRpv)

Posted by: Heralder at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (+xmn4)

157 I liked Owens' book, but it seemed more general in scope than "here's the kind of gun you should buy," at least in terms of caliber or brand. It was more like, "find something that feels comfortable and get good with it." Still not bad advice and I enjoyed the book.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (P7hip)

158 $3k list.

Painful. But it is so, so tempting.




Shit, if you can grab it for $3k, DO IT!!! GB has them priced much higher than that. Ofcourse, the next puzzle after you get one will be the magazines for it.

*back to dreaming about oily Kate Upton*

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (GQ8sn)

159 First, they demonized the guns. Then, they demonized their owners. Next, they asked for voluntary surrender of the weapons at government checkpoints. Then they came for them.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 29, 2013 12:43 PM (wbmaj)

160 Before this year I had never owned a gun. I fired one a few times at a range, but that's it. Today I own a gun. I've always throw around the idea of buying one, but for one reason or another, never did. A couple of weeks after Sandy Hook I finally - ahem - pulled the trigger and purchased one.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 29, 2013 12:43 PM (HDgX3)

161 at academy sports, people are restricted to one box of 9mm and .223 per day. i think the ruger 10/22 flew off the shelves because they're cheap and their ammo is cheap. was cheap, i guess. i can't find any now.

Posted by: obamuh at January 29, 2013 12:44 PM (rNS5g)

162 The one exception to bolt action inventory would be the Mosin. I've seen those wiped out, probably as impulse buys
Posted by: Rizzyg
********
Heh. I snagged some back before they were cool. Blind squirrel.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 12:44 PM (uhftQ)

163 Slightly off topic :-) but I just called my Senators to ask them to oppose this coming amnesty. Senator Cruz office said, without taking a breath that the senator opposes what they are now pushing and will fight against it. Clear response. Senator Cornyn's office said well ok I will pass along your message. Cornyn's bunch will never say he is for or against ANY damn thing. They are just pissed you called to complain. Cornyn and his ilk need to be primaried in conservative states. Why settle for RHINO in a conservative state?

Posted by: AnnaS at January 29, 2013 12:44 PM (ummNV)

164 A couple of anecdotal points:

1) Coming from an anti-gun household, I never was interested in owning one until TFG was elected. I would now own several if it hadn't been for that damn leaky canoe, and I might even have an XD40 on order from Bud's, *but* that wouldn't be prudent because why would I want to own something so dangerous to teh childrenz in my house?

2) For no particular reason, since I don't own anything that would use it, I paid a visit to the ammo section of Walmart the other day. They'd sold out of everything they'd gotten that morning, but I wasn't disappointed, just skeered of all the assault thingies that might be out there.

Oh, and...Molon Fucking Labe, douchetools.

Posted by: jakeman at January 29, 2013 12:44 PM (96M6e)

165 I think first-time gun buyers are at least 50% of the demand. I grew up with a gun rack over my bed, bt never went hunting with my dad (as my older brother had done). However, I did shoot them in high school (we had a rifle team and a rod gun club).

Believe me, if I had the available funds I would be buying a rifle/shotgun AND a pistol right now. I had not felt storngly about protecting the 2nd Amendment until around 15 years or so ago, and my feelings have steadily grown stronger over that time.

I have absolutely no doubt that there are a LOT of folks like me out there.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (jaijr)

166
My Scheels got a big shipment of .223 yesterday.
I think it's mostly new shooters. Handguns were the firstto go, mostly the "Wonder Nines" hence 9mm ammo is not available anywhere. The only hangun ammo I've seen on shelves is .40 or .38 and occasionally .45. The 22LR hung out forwhile but was the next to go. Now I see shotguns are going quick but there's still a lot of ammo on the shelves.

Posted by: Dad at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (i+cA/)

167 146 - If it is your first, and you want a rifle, I would suggest a 22long rifle. Remingont 597, ruger 10/22 or a mossberg plinkster. Great way to learn fundamentals without breaking the bank. The 22l ammunition is crazy cheap to produce and will be back soon.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (41VCE)

168 IOW why should Obama seize them when he can buy them?


Soros who was involved with the 2008 crash would love this kind of scheme.

Posted by: T. Hunter at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (EZl54)

169 I loaned mine to a guy named Mike. (Can't remember his last name, sorry.) He went up north, promised to bring 'em back when he was done. Anybody see Mike round your hood?
Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (1Ialr)


-------------------------------------------


Yes. He was smiling and laughing a lot.

Posted by: Soona at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (Kk3Lm)

170 *but* (sigh)

Posted by: Tex Lovera at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (jaijr)

171 >>>I liked Owens' book, but it seemed more general in scope than "here's the kind of gun you should buy," at least in terms of caliber or brand. It was more like, "find something that feels comfortable and get good with it." Still not bad advice and I enjoyed the book.

He'll be happy to help you directly. Hit him up on Twitter. @bob_owens.

Posted by: JohnE. at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (nRTou)

172 #147

Mosins sell out fast because they're dirt cheap. They only cost $100 a pop, probqably making them THE cheapest centerfire firearm on the market. At only .0.25 a round in bulk, the ammo is also probably the cheapest centerfire ammo on the market too, and it hits as hard as a .308. So if you want a complete "system" this is about as cheap as you can get.

Unfortunately, most of these guns have rotten bores like sewer pipes, but they'll still put a world of hurt on anything they hit.

The standard issue ammo has soft steel cores (like of like the M855, only much more powerful). One of these will punch through a telephone pole like its not even there (don't ask me how I know).

Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (PwGfd)

173 @1

Might I suggest a SmithWesson MP shield instead of the glock.

test fit the the glock if you haven't already.

The shield is smaller more concealable points better and fits better in the hand.

I find the ergonomics of the glock less than desirable.

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (RrD4h)

174 do I want an M1 or an M14?


when the looters come I want some serious firepower

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (8sCoq)

175 Now you guys have me thinking about wanting a rifle. But not a scary black plastic-y rifle. A beautiful instrument of death, old school, wood stock and body, semi auto, takes big magazines, large caliber.
Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:37 PM (8sCoq)

Congrats. You just described a M1A.
If you got rid of the mags, you'd have described a M1 Garand.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (t06LC)

176 Good observation. I am one of those "first timers." Bought a ruger LCR .380 a few months back. Just got my ccw license from FL in the mail yesterday, honored in 31 states. I originally bought because of the rash of ghetto violence in my town that has spilled out to the burbs on occasion. Add to the equation sandy hook and the gun grab by the left, and I'm a long way from done. Getting a snub nosed compact 357 or 9mm shortly for conceal carry, and I will have an "assault" rifle soon too. Actually, I'm pretty much obsessed with guns now. I have a great interest in them largely due to the gun grabbers. I DO NOT trust those people!!!

Posted by: Ed from Ohio at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (w7zSJ)

177 DAMN! Its 72° here now and sunny. But can't hit the porch rocker today because got to get up early tomorrow for drive to "the city".


Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (53z96)

178 I loaned mine to a guy named Mike. (Can't remember
his last name, sorry.) He went up north, promised to bring 'em back
when he was done.



Anybody see Mike round your hood?

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at January 29, 2013 12:41 PM (1Ialr)

__________
Sun'v'a'bithc!! I loaned mine to Mike too. He promised to bring it right back. This was a week ago. And wouldn't you know it, I dropped my cell phone on my tile floor and it wiped out all the numbers. So I don't even have a way to get in touch with Mike anymore.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (HDgX3)

179 IOW why should Obama seize them when he can buy them?Soros who was involved with the 2008 crash would love this kind of scheme.
Posted by: T. Hunter at January 29, 2013 12:45 PM (EZl54)


----------------------------------------------


Stimulus money at work.

Posted by: Soona at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (Kk3Lm)

180 151 looking closely,

as the machine gunners said as they had to give up their pigs for saws...

"now I can bounce light ammo off hard targets faster than ever before!"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:47 PM (LRFds)

181
Posted by: Soona at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM

I haven't looked there, but then I'm boycottingCTD because they went all mandarin on usafter the Newtown shooting.

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 29, 2013 12:47 PM (eytER)

182 when the looters come I want some serious firepower

The M14 is the military version that's full auto. The M1A is the civie version. It shoots the .308.

The M1 is limited to 8 rounds and everyone around you will know when you shoot your last round.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (GQ8sn)

183 140
Obama's Volunteers for America coming to disarm you fertilize my lawn soon.



---------
fixed

Posted by: real joe at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (Rg5t/)

184 Over 67 million guns have been sold in the US since TFG was elected 4 years ago.

Frankly, I don't care if a lot of the new first buyers are Donks. A message is still being sent to our overlords -- there are certain lines you cannot cross.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (ccXZP)

185 While we commonly joke about losing guns in boating mishaps, I would like someone to do a piece on that or others as viable options if searches do come to pass.
Even if it had to be done tongue in cheek for legal reasons.

I realize that penalties are going to depend on your state of residence, but am I actually better off just evading the question or LEOs, or will I have to produce a boat, etc.

Will I have to pay a fine or do jail time if that is my story?
Is it dependent on the shear volume of tragic boating accidents?

I'd like to think that burial is only the absolute last desperate option, but what signals should I look for prior to that as well.

I've gone pretty well Galt, where even my employer doesn't even know where I actually reside, but I like to know my options regardless.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (aZ6ew)

186 IOW why should Obama seize them when he can buy them?

To bleed the law-abiding. Doing it his way we lose our savings and our assets.

Posted by: t-bird at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (FcR7P)

187 172 looking closely,

always go for the Finn if able....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (LRFds)

188 Been around guns and shooting my whole life.
Never had any burning desire to have an AR, until last December.
Based on the invisible writing on the wall I went and grabbed one on 12/17.
Pretty sure it went up in value on the way back to my house.
Ammo is very hard to get. Been chasing reloading stuff for a solid month.
I've seen .223 empties going for a buck apiece!
The anarchist in me wants to see King Zero Dark Fuckhead kick the anthill.

Posted by: Roland THTG at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (QM5S2)

189 @179

exactly.

Nobody knows how that gets spent. Call it "Homeland Security Enhancement Initiatives" and set aside 2 billion.

How many guns would 2 billion dollars buy from Wal Mart?

Posted by: T. Hunter at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (EZl54)

190 So You Want To Own A Gun. $0.99 well spent.

We can get guns for $0.99?!?!?!

Posted by: Golan Globus at January 29, 2013 12:49 PM (pZDxu)

191 Ammo and Firearms here in Mexifornia is harder to find than a true conservative... Turners had a sale on the 10/22 this weekend and all stores sold out by noon...The only thing they had on the shelf were 25 round boxes of 00 Remington shot..
And some other ammo obscure...As for firearms in inventory a few pistols and a few long guns, most niche stuff not very pedestrian, if you can find a Nagant or a Mauser in stock buy it...there is still plentiful ammo surplus for both ...
just Sayin...

Posted by: Clemenza at January 29, 2013 12:49 PM (Q8Pu5)

192 "do I want an M1 or an M14?when the looters come I want some serious firepower
Posted by: Jones in CO"
M1A. It's the civilian version of the M14. I'd buy one if I could afford it. As it is I have a Garand to build.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 12:49 PM (uhftQ)

193 For example, my brother used to have an Underwood model. They are going for in excess of $2K now.
Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:40 PM (53z96)

The most I paid for any of my 3 (all bought since November) was $850. The Inland has mostly Inland parts, the NPM is also mostly correct, the Winnie is pure mixmaster.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:49 PM (t06LC)

194 The M1 is limited to 8 rounds and everyone around you will know when you shoot your last round.


Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:48 PM (GQ8sn)

Nah, the young punks in the FSA never heard of the M1 ping.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (53z96)

195 "Yeah - that's some scary crap right there. If a gun ban were imposed, someone would have to do the imposing - that is, local law enforcement or even National Guard. Some hold out hope that cops or weekend warriors wouldn't obey such an order. I disagree. They know where their bread is buttered. That government paycheck is a hard thing to throw away if they ask you to knock on your neighbor's door. Posted by: JDW at January 29, 2013 12:42 PM (g2rsW)"Probably. Maybe. Who knows.Even if 99.99% of the door-to-door confiscations go peacefully, the miniscule remainder will be a bloodbath like we've never seen on this continent. A lot of good people will die on both sides. It's just math.I pray to God every day that He inspires someone, somewhere to find a way out of this.

Posted by: Jaws at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (4I3Uo)

196 @ my 189

at the US Govt discount of course

Posted by: T. Hunter at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (EZl54)

197 King Zero Dark Fuckhead

Ooooh. Poetic.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (ZKzrr)

198 Nah, the young punks in the FSA never heard of the M1 ping.


"Yo, someone texting you?"

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (GQ8sn)

199 Heralder, what's your wife's business and where is it?
Morons like other morons.

Posted by: Max Entropy at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (DT5ol)

200 The Enter key! It does nothing!

Posted by: Jaws at January 29, 2013 12:51 PM (4I3Uo)

201
Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM

Yep, when they hear the M1 ping half of them will look at their cell phones thinking they just got a text message.

Posted by: @JohnTant at January 29, 2013 12:51 PM (eytER)

202 185 On The Rocks,

well....

hypothetically a person who was being searched through quarters by MPs who had responded to a neighbor offering to slit his throat with "I'll part your hair" may be able to get away with keeping the baby in a garment bag.

the whole key is how many manhours at what cost for equipment per search is the Govt gonna do?

You can put them in vac sealed PVC in a yard with dispersed soup cans, you can put them in controlled climate storage, you can put them in the rafters....guns are wonderfully concealable..

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:51 PM (LRFds)

203 IOW why should Obama seize them when he can buy them?

Sure, but the hallmark of this regime hasn't been their ability to keep things secret, it's just that the media won't cover any of the stuff that leaks.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 29, 2013 12:51 PM (B/VB5)

204
"The M1 is limited to 8 rounds and everyone around you will know when you shoot your last round"
So? They're on the same side w/me... anything at the other end won't be a problem.

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 12:52 PM (lbiWb)

205 I still don't get the shortages out there. You'd think manufacturers would be cranking out product to meet the demand. Were manufacturers are 100% capacity before Sandy Hook? I find that hard to believe.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 29, 2013 12:52 PM (HDgX3)

206 In addition to the potential "ban", I sense that some of the gun buying is driven by the sense that things are slowly slipping out of control, that the government is/will do nothing to arrest the slide. Many, like us, believe that the government will exacerbate the slide. The govt reaction to the Occupy thugs and the Wisconsin union thugs let people know that the govt will likely not step in to stop violence or prosecute thugs. So I think it's essentially a DIY movement. Plus the fiscal problems mean fewer police and morea-holes committing crime. People have always been on their own. Most are just starting to realize it.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at January 29, 2013 12:52 PM (qwK3S)

207 182 EC,

of course if you keep a spare mag you can have GREAT fun with that trick

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:52 PM (LRFds)

208 >While we commonly joke about losing guns in boating mishaps, I would
like someone to do a piece on that or others as viable options if
searches do come to pass.

here's my thoughts on that--

If you 'lose' a gun, it would be a criminal offense to report it 'lost' or 'stolen' to the police.

Also, it would be a criminal offense to report it 'lost' to your insurance company.

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:52 PM (8sCoq)

209 The plural of anecdote is not data, as they say.

Shut up!

Posted by: Climate Scientists at January 29, 2013 12:52 PM (T0NGe)

210 Wow. Luckygunner has .223 and 5.56 in stock right now. They even have PMAG's too.

Anyone wanting to possess some RIGHT NOW, head on over.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:53 PM (GQ8sn)

211 >>>I still don't get the shortages out there. You'd think manufacturers would be cranking out product to meet the demand. Were manufacturers are 100% capacity before Sandy Hook? I find that hard to believe.

They were, in fact.

Posted by: JohnE. at January 29, 2013 12:53 PM (nRTou)

212 180

"now I can bounce light ammo off hard targets faster than ever before!"

...now that's funny...sad, but funny.

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at January 29, 2013 12:53 PM (RIm0W)

213 Nah, the young punks in the FSA never heard of the M1 ping.
Posted by: Vic


Wrong. Call of Duty. ^ ping ^

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 29, 2013 12:53 PM (xz0nG)

214 Ugly like Kate Upton taking a baby oil bath.


Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:36 PM (GQ8sn)




http://tinyurl.com/dy3z6mu


Closest I could find.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 12:53 PM (da5Wo)

215 Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:49 PM (t06LC)

You stole them then because right now as we speak an Underwood model is $2K at GunsAmerica. tHE PRICES SEEM TO BE RUNNING CONSISTENTLY BETWEEN $1k AND $2k

Dam that key

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:54 PM (53z96)

216 180

Exactly.

Put it this way, if the M855s were REALLY armor piercing or good at destroying machinery, the Feds wouldn't let you have them.

Basically they're a little bit better at this than "ordinary" .223 at punching holes in things harder than cold butter, but even a "regular" .308 beats the crap out of these.

The true armor piercing "black tip" .223 ammo with tungsten carbide cores is probably pretty destructive, but bluntly I've never even seen a round (ever). Its not for sale, its never been for sale, projectiles are not available, and my understanding is that even within the military its a special request item that's basically for special ops use only.



Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 12:54 PM (6Q9g2)

217 geebus.. just followed on twitter Governor Perrys State of the State.. they have 12 BILLION in surplus.

Pretty comical reading the democrats response on twitter.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 12:54 PM (DGIjM)

218 #178 ~ Dang. That's a tragedy for both of us.

Hey, Morons! Watch out for Mike! He borrows all your guns and doesn't bring 'em back when he says he will!

Any more Mike sightings? You can't miss him....he wears a tee shirt and jeans.

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at January 29, 2013 12:54 PM (1Ialr)

219 Were manufacturers are 100% capacity before Sandy Hook? I find that hard to believe.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 29, 2013 12:52 PM (HDgX3)

As I understand it, the manufactuers have been balls to the wall since the election. Some even a bit before.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:54 PM (t06LC)

220 Obama won in '12 because the right stayed home. He's just guaranteed massive anti-Dem turn-out that the incompetent GOP leadership could ever achieve.

Behind every blade of grass...

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 29, 2013 12:54 PM (XvHmy)

221 "Yep, when they hear the M1 ping half of them will look at their cell phones thinking they just got a text message.
Posted by: @JohnTant "

That's what my AK toting co-horts are for.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 12:55 PM (uhftQ)

222 I still don't get the shortages out there. You'd think manufacturers
would be cranking out product to meet the demand. Were manufacturers are
100% capacity before Sandy Hook? I find that hard to believe.



All the manufacturers are busy filling their order with DHS first. Civie market ammo comes second.

That's why there's a shortage right now.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:55 PM (GQ8sn)

223 SO-

M1 or M1A- what kind of $$$ am I looking at, ballpark?

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:55 PM (8sCoq)

224
I'm gonna keep pushing this shit.

Posted by: King Dung Beetle at January 29, 2013 12:55 PM (BZMZX)

225 You stole them then because right now as we speak an Underwood model is $2K at GunsAmerica. tHE PRICES SEEM TO BE RUNNING CONSISTENTLY BETWEEN $1k AND $2kDam that key
Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:54 PM (53z96)

I'm watching like 4 on gunboker sub $1k

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:55 PM (t06LC)

226 I'm on something of a tight budget, but I'd really like to get a rifle soon. I live in MA so nothing scary or black.

What would people recommend for $500-$1000?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 29, 2013 12:55 PM (g2ldK)

227 Perry should use the surplus as a pretext to get rid of the corporate franchise tax and to lower the sales tax to 5%.

Posted by: SH at January 29, 2013 12:55 PM (gmeXX)

228 One other thing on that "ping". I'm sure the old timers know the answer to them getting used to hearing it.


The old empty clip snapped against the receiver when a full clip is inserted?

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:56 PM (53z96)

229 If you 'lose' a gun, it would be a criminal offense to report it 'lost' or 'stolen' to the police.
Also, it would be a criminal offense to report it 'lost' to your insurance company.


------
correct. The best policy when dealing with police is to keep your damn mouth shut. Just don't answer anything beyond name and dob..

Posted by: real joe at January 29, 2013 12:56 PM (Rg5t/)

230 of course if you keep a spare mag you can have GREAT fun with that trick


Hehe...like the GI's did back in WWII.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:56 PM (GQ8sn)

231 @223

Depends, regular or panic price and options.
Regular price, regular rifle somewhere around $1600.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:56 PM (t06LC)

232 I've been wanting to gets some extra clips for my CZ for a while. Just looked online. $45! Sticker shock! (Is that reasonable for a handgun clip?)

Damn you Obama, first you kill my economy and now I don't have the funds to extend my current tools let alone acquire new ones.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 29, 2013 12:56 PM (X/+QT)

233 M1 or M1A- what kind of $$$ am I looking at, ballpark?


$1000+

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:57 PM (GQ8sn)

234 Ruger 10/22 it's one of the best assault rifles when you hunt skeet.

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 29, 2013 12:57 PM (AWmfW)

235 @226

What do you want the rifle to be able to do?

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 12:57 PM (t06LC)

236 Pretty comical reading the democrats response on twitter.

How many complaints were about "education funding?"

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 12:57 PM (8y9MW)

237
174
do I want an M1 or an M14?


when the looters come I want some serious firepower


Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 12:46 PM (8sCoq)


Local gun shop/range that I go to had both a Barret Model 82A1 and a M107A1 on it's shelves. I drooled. Then I saw the price tags. Holy Mother of God.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 12:58 PM (da5Wo)

238 205 -
I think they are running full bore, but there is just a capacity issue. I was telling someone that NRA membership rose like 25% in a month. I'm not aware of a lot of manufacturing concerns that keep up with such a crazy spike in demand. They will adjust, but that supply line will be stretched thin for a while. Also consider that most are hesitant to make big investments in improving capacity because of possible legislation. If the threat of government settles a big they will be more aggressive about meeting demand.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 12:58 PM (41VCE)

239 212 Whiskey Joe,

The infantry was a great place for gallows humor...

I was a Tow Gunner we were taught that concealment was vital...

why?

It took us an average at optimal range 10-15 seconds to guide our package to the client

If seen it take 5-9 seconds for the client to engaged us.....

Scoot and shoot was really shoot then scoot

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:58 PM (LRFds)

240 http://tinyurl.com/dy3z6mu


Closest I could find.


Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 12:53 PM (da5Wo)


Ever since I learned about her, my right arm is now muscular compared to my left arm.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 12:58 PM (GQ8sn)

241 Y'know what really bums me out?

Knowing that the cops would more than likely treat loaning someone property that they didn't return as a civil matter that they generally don't have the power to do a damn thing about.

And the insurance company isn't gonna take action on unreturned borrowed property in most cases.

Dang. I think I better go have a beer and calm down......

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at January 29, 2013 12:58 PM (1Ialr)

242 >>You can put them in vac sealed PVC in a yard with
dispersed soup cans, you can put them in controlled climate storage, you
can put them in the rafters....guns are wonderfully concealable..


Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 12:51 PM (LRFds)

Yeah, but my preference is to have my 870 standing in the corner of my entertainment center where it is perfectly partnered with my black tower speaker, and my 9mm on the table in the other corner.No kids, deep woods log home. More interested in warning signs and contingency plans.
Not expecting to be the first, by a long shot......I kill me.......OK I'll stop now......

Posted by: ontherocks at January 29, 2013 12:59 PM (aZ6ew)

243 @227. from what I read.. Perry wants to use 3.7 billion from the 'rainy day fund' for roads and water.

Make the franchise fee thing perm. Which I have no idea what that is.. I dont live in Texas.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 12:59 PM (DGIjM)

244 199Heralder, what's your wife's business and where is it?
Morons like other morons.Posted by: Max Entropy at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (DT5ol)

Well, that's nice of you. She's a freelance illustrator, so while she's technically starting up her own business, "self-employed" is probably a more accurate term. She's been getting some good work and just got a small deal with Dover publishing, so it's off to a good start thus far.
If she makes a calendar again this year, I'll let you guys know about it and where to purchase them. The Dover thing I can't say because of an NDA until it's published, but I'll let you all know about that too. It'll be geared towards kids.

Posted by: Heralder at January 29, 2013 01:00 PM (+xmn4)

245 I have to say that it's new buyers, based on my own experience. I'd not been a gun owner, and in fact I'd handled a firearm only once in my life. After the 2008 election, my wife insisted that we exercise our rights and purchase a gun. She brought me over to the dark side, and now I, like everyone in our family, is an enthusiastic shooter. But if it hadn't been for the JEF's election, I might well never have gotten into it.

Posted by: Brown Line at January 29, 2013 01:00 PM (VrNoa)

246 Not that it means much individually, but when I was at the Dixie Gun and Knife Show in Raleigh the Saturday before last (buying a rifle, but I'm definitely not a first time gun owner), there was a 21 year old young man filling out his paperwork ahead of me, buying his first gun.

Also, there were a TON of college students there, and not just NC State students, either (NCSU is the "redneck" school in the Triangle area), but also UNC and Dukies as well.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at January 29, 2013 01:00 PM (YYJjz)

247 Local gun shop/range that I go to had both a Barret Model 82A1 and a M107A1 on it's shelves. I drooled. Then I saw the price tags. Holy Mother of God.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 12:58 PM (da5Wo)

What gets you are the scopes that cost about the same as the rifle. I had a buddy pick up an AICS in .338 lapua with a Schmidt and Bender scope. The rifle was around 8k, the scope around 4-5k

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 01:00 PM (t06LC)

248 @203

Agreed.

But after Cash for Clunkers , and various (retarded) gun buyback schemes, I have to believe that this type of thinking is basic to the lefties.

Want to avoid the whole "Constitutional" thing? Find a sugar daddy and a whole lot of straw purchasers to pay retailers for their stock.

Lean on gun manufacturers.

Crush the supply, buy up the demand.

" I'd love to exercise the rights stated in the Second Amendment , but I can't find a gun!"

Posted by: T. Hunter at January 29, 2013 01:00 PM (EZl54)

249 My understanding on gun manufacturers is that they have been running full bore output since Obama was first elected in his 1st term and haven't been able to keep up.


The ammo factories have been running three shifts!

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 01:00 PM (53z96)

250 Privae sellers of M1s are getting a better price since those rifles will not appear on any radar screens.

Posted by: Invictus at January 29, 2013 01:01 PM (OQpzc)

251 I had a buddy pick up an AICS in .338 lapua with a Schmidt and Bender scope. The rifle was around 8k, the scope around 4-5k


Is he shooting targets?

From the next state over?

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:01 PM (GQ8sn)

252 The Remington Nylon 66 .22 is a fine rifle if you can find one used. Tube fed...not "scary"

The magazine fed version is the Nylon 77.

Both are quite light weight.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 29, 2013 01:01 PM (GlnE7)

253 what do we think of the Remington 870

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 01:01 PM (8sCoq)

254 Perry wants to use 3.7 billion from the 'rainy day fund' for roads and water.


That sounds off. Perry virtually never wants to use the rainy day fund for anything but emergencies- and roads and water wouldn't count, especially with a $12bn surplus.

Anyone got a transcript?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:01 PM (8y9MW)

255 #226

You can't have "just" one rifle.

Start with a .22LR. Pretty much any will do.

After that get a .308 and you're covered for about 98% of what you'd want to do with a rifle. For make/model its hard to go wrong with a Remington 700, and don't forget to budget at least several hundred bucks for a good scope, which is as important as the actual rifle.


Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 01:01 PM (6Q9g2)

256 Thanks for the advice, guys. I will think about going to a range and renting a gun. Hubby would probably not object to that. It just seems like a lot of fun to me. I never did any sports, and now I'm too old for most of them, but shooting is something anyone can do. Hanging aroundAOSHQ alsomakes it clear that lots of you love your guns and have a good time with them. I would like to do that too. Once I get trained and show him what a good time it is, I can probably convince him to join me and then to buy a gun.

Posted by: rockmom at January 29, 2013 01:01 PM (NYnoe)

257 How many complaints were about "education funding?"
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 12:57 PM (8y9MW)

Oh.. alot.

People tweeting they cant wait til Texas is a blue state...
Some crap about Artists...
the poor children if Texas has voucher system for school choice.
oh and pissed off Perry wont do the Obamacare thing.

They could always move back to California. I wonder why they dont do that.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 01:02 PM (DGIjM)

258 What gets you are the scopes that cost about the
same as the rifle. I had a buddy pick up an AICS in .338 lapua with a
Schmidt and Bender scope. The rifle was around 8k, the scope around 4-5k

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 01:00 PM (t06LC)


The fuck????

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 01:02 PM (da5Wo)

259 Look up Southern Thunder exploding targets. Or look up tannerite video's on youtube.


Posted by: TC at January 29, 2013 01:02 PM (vYB+W)

260 Also, there were a TON of college students there, and not just NC State
students, either (NCSU is the "redneck" school in the Triangle area),
but also UNC and Dukies as well.


You actually braved it and went? I saw the line on tv and said "fuck that". Glad I got my stuff back in Nov.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:02 PM (GQ8sn)

261 253 Jones in CO,

Good enough for the cops, and military.

I have a soft spot for the Ithaca but the Rem 870 is a good shotgun.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (LRFds)

262
Dang. I think I better go have a beer and calm down
Let me open that for you - from here:
http://tinyurl.com/aaup9g7

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (lbiWb)

263 101 First time buyer here too. Just got a 12 gauge and joined NRA. Cancelled my newspaper subscription as well.

Posted by: real joe


Real Joe hits the trifecta!

Posted by: Max Entropy at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (DT5ol)

264 Been collecting for 50+ years.

I've got neighbors coming to me now asking if they can buy a gun. Jersey is not gun-friendly in the least bit, and it is a 4 month wait for a FOID card in order to purchase nothing from empty gun shops.

No, they can't buy a gun.

Posted by: trainer @ work at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (QbdUW)

265 @251
Kinda. He's taking a long range tactical target class or something. .300 win mags and up only. He bought the riflefor the class. At $5 a round, thats got to be an expensive class.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (t06LC)

266 the poor children if Texas has voucher system for school choice.


Yeah, how dare we offer poor and middle class children the possibility of a private education!

Leftists make my brain hurt.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (8y9MW)

267 255-

That's true they are like potato chips.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:04 PM (41VCE)

268 @254.... #TxSotS was the hash tag i was following..

yeah.. he wants to use 3.7 billion for roads and water.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 01:04 PM (DGIjM)

269 budget at least several hundred bucks for a good scope

If the grabbers jam this round through, the next thing they come for is the "sniper rifles".

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 29, 2013 01:04 PM (GlnE7)

270 Real Joe, next step is to pull your kids out of public school and go private, then start a business so you too can enjoy filing quarterly taxes.

Posted by: Jean at January 29, 2013 01:04 PM (bR2AR)

271 I have a soft spot for the Ithaca but the Rem 870 is a good shotgun.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (LRFds)

Damn right. Its my bump in the night gun. Sven has good taste in firearms. I have a swede mauser too.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 29, 2013 01:04 PM (t06LC)

272 I still don't get the shortages out there. You'd think manufacturers
would be cranking out product to meet the demand. Were manufacturers are
100% capacity before Sandy Hook? I find that hard to believe.


I'm sure they are at 100% capacity to the extent they can be. Ramping up production takes time though, and it might not make economic sense to invest a lot of money in new employees and machinery for what is likely a temporary spike in demand.

They no doubt rely on suppliers who are also backlogged. There's no point in paying overtime to make a bunch of new receivers if your barrel supplier can't keep up with demand, for example.

This buying spree is like nothing they've ever experienced before. There's no way they could've been prepared for it.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 29, 2013 01:04 PM (SY2Kh)

273 yeah.. he wants to use 3.7 billion for roads and water.

It's not the number, it's that it's "from the 'rainy day fund'."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (8y9MW)

274 A surplus is a fine thing to waste. It should be used to get rid of the dumb franchise/margins tax, so that more businesses are attracted to Texas, and it should be used to lower the sales tax to 5%. Which is a 1.25% reduction. More would be fine with me. Just lower taxes.

Posted by: SH at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (gmeXX)

275 what do we think of the Remington 870
Posted by: Jones in CO

Good at across the room ranges with buckshot.
With a rifled barrel and slugs maybe good out to 100 yards.
I'm looking at a Choate folding M4 stock and the Mesa Tactical recoil shock (or whatever you call it) for an 870

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (uhftQ)

276 Remington 870 is probably the best all around pump shotgun on the market. Its close cousin the model 1100 is one of the best auto shotguns on the market.


I had one of each until that unfortunate boating accident.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (53z96)

277 Nah, the young punks in the FSA never heard of the M1 ping.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 12:50 PM (53z96)
==========

They've also never heard a 30-06 report. After the first shot (if they're able) they'll be running so fast that they will be in the next county by the time you fire the 8th shot.

Posted by: Nighthawk at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (RSqz2)

278 262 ~ Nice bottle opener.

Much obliged.

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (1Ialr)

279
"That's true they are like potato chips"
And more satisfying...

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (lbiWb)

280 The fuck????


Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 01:02 PM (da5Wo)

That round was specifically made for military snipers. I think it was SAKO and Accuracy International (Finnish and British companies) both made a joint effort to build a rifle around it. I think it's the TRG-42 and the Arctic Warfare Super Magnum. Ofcourse, once you have the rifle, you need a decent set of optics to go with it.Some British sniper made a kill with the .338 from 2700+ yards away.

That's a mile and a half!

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:06 PM (GQ8sn)

281 Leftists make my brain hurt.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (8y9MW)
Leftists make my brain hurt.


They make my feet and hands ache. The urge to thrash and stomp is great.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 01:06 PM (da5Wo)

282 First time buyer here. The lady and I just picked up 1911 .45

Taking NRA Basic pistol course this week for concealed carry licenses

Posted by: Melodicmetal1 at January 29, 2013 01:06 PM (8v+Is)

283 It's not the number, it's that it's "from the 'rainy day fund'."
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (8y9MW)

He called it a one time expenditure.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 01:07 PM (DGIjM)

284 Gun show in home town, most attendance ever in 30 years.
50 count .22 LR went for 7.50 a box and it all sold Saturday.
No bullets for loading but I bought 5 lbs of powder. Sold 3 pistols and bought 1. So many people you couldn’t stir em with a stick.
Next show tables, 300, sold out in an hour of announcement.

old man in North Texas

Posted by: Farmer at January 29, 2013 01:07 PM (dFb72)

285 269 Purp Av,

Yup....

funny too the price on an M91-30 Sniper Mosin just went up 200 bucks..."yay"

I plan on getting a Shepherd scope it has a nice rangefinder system.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:07 PM (LRFds)

286
>>>what do we think of the Remington 870

Mine has saved my life, twice and has never failed to fire in 20+ years.
Love the 870.

Posted by: garrett at January 29, 2013 01:07 PM (gFNtS)

287 279 just so damn expensive, it really kills me that I did not buy earlier, no idea why I stopped with guns. Oh yeah we all felt safer after 8 years of Reagan.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:07 PM (41VCE)

288 #267

I barely shoot rifles, and don't even really care for them, yet somehow I've got about 8-9 of them.

IMO a .22LR rifle is basically a necessary tool. With the arguable exception of a pump 12 gauge, its probably the single most useful firearm there is, period.

If I could only have one, bluntly, I'd rather have a .22 than an AR-15 (though a .22LR upper on an AR-15, obviously, is the way to go!).


Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 01:08 PM (6Q9g2)

289 263
101 First time buyer here too. Just got a 12 gauge and joined NRA. Cancelled my newspaper subscription as well.


Posted by: real joe


Real Joe hits the trifecta!


My paper published the interactive map. It was the last straw for me.

Posted by: real joe at January 29, 2013 01:08 PM (Rg5t/)

290 Leftists make my brain hurt.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:03 PM (8y9MW)

I was cracking up about the 'Art communities' outrage.
pretty pathetic.

Dang.. i wanted Perry to be President.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 01:08 PM (DGIjM)

291 sven1077

Did Big Green still hold to the HAW-MAW-LAW concept when you were in...we were to fire the LAW and then "smartly" smash the tube on a nearby rock or tree to "deny the enemy use of the tube"...

Was promised a turn on an M-249 at a DoD range a few years ago...unfortunately, that "deal" didn't work out.

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at January 29, 2013 01:08 PM (RIm0W)

292 He called it a one time expenditure.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 01:07 PM (DGIjM)



Don't they always?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 01:08 PM (da5Wo)

293
"262 ~ Nice bottle opener.

Much obliged. "
You're welcome. Sad part is that I just got one like it this past summer, only to have that rascal Mike guy drop in overboard in a tragic boating accident.
Amazing too that he somehow had nearly 500 rounds...

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 01:09 PM (lbiWb)

294 I think I'm gon' get me a Glock 17. Test-fired one last week and it was love at first shoot. Great fit for my hands too.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 29, 2013 01:09 PM (7ObY1)

295 My paper published the interactive map. It was the last straw for me.

Have you moved yet?

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:09 PM (GQ8sn)

296 Seattle gun buy back gets jacked. Turns into gun show as private buyers set up across the street from the cops & offer more $$. LOL

http://tinyurl.com/avboufz

Posted by: rickb223 at January 29, 2013 01:09 PM (GFM2b)

297 Rubio is on Rush right now.

Posted by: jwest at January 29, 2013 01:09 PM (ZDsRL)

298 A surplus is a fine thing to waste. It should be used to get rid of the
dumb franchise/margins tax, so that more businesses are attracted to
Texas, and it should be used to lower the sales tax to 5%. Which is a
1.25% reduction. More would be fine with me. Just lower taxes.


He wants to make the franchise tax exemption for small businesses permanent. I didn't see anything about the state sales tax (don't expect that one to happen, though).

I'm concerned about taking $3.7bn from the rainy day fund for "road and water infrastructure" though. We took money out last session on a one-time basis, and it was really needed. But if you start doing it, it will be easier to do it the next time, and the next, and the next, and then the "rainy day fund" will simply be another general fund.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:09 PM (8y9MW)

299
Seattle gun buy back gets jacked. Turns into gun show as private buyers
set up across the street from the cops offer more $$. LOL


Capitalism. Is there anything it can't do?

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:10 PM (GQ8sn)

300 288-- 12 gauge pump, why? I am not challenging, I'm just curious on your reasons. Better than a semi auto?

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:10 PM (41VCE)

301 270
Real Joe, next step is to pull your kids out of public school and go
private, then start a business so you too can enjoy filing quarterly
taxes.

Posted by: Jean at January 29, 2013 01:04 PM (bR2AR)

Kids are grown and out of the house. I retired from civil service a few years ago and now have my own business. Struggling in the Obama economy.

Posted by: real joe at January 29, 2013 01:10 PM (Rg5t/)

302
So many turds to push...so little time.

Posted by: King Dung Beetle at January 29, 2013 01:10 PM (BZMZX)

303 Rubio on Rush right now.

Posted by: Enby at January 29, 2013 01:11 PM (ptlfZ)

304 Alright guys- that's it. I'm going to sweep the snow off the truck, go buy a waffle maker, and then see what my local vendor has in the way of long guns.



WAFFLES AND GUNS

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 01:11 PM (8sCoq)

305 He called it a one time expenditure.

Yeah. That's what we did last session. A "one time expenditure." That one was to balance the budget. What's the next one for?

I want some confirmation (say, from a transcript) before I flip out, but I think Gov. Perry will be hearing from me.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:11 PM (8y9MW)

306 The Garand ping is for all intents and purposes, a myth.

Posted by: The bad guy at January 29, 2013 01:11 PM (vbh31)

307 5.56 in a barrel marked .223 can go boom.in your face.

Agree, that 5.56 and 223 are identical except for the heavier loading of the 5.56. I thought the big difference in the rifle was the twist rate of the barrel, rather than the strength of the chamber.

Posted by: Rule #2 at January 29, 2013 01:12 PM (CypDC)

308 293 ~ I am sorry for your family's tragic loss.

That Mike is one hell of a careless bastard.

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at January 29, 2013 01:12 PM (1Ialr)

309
>>>12 gauge pump, why?

Simplicity.
You'd be amazed how fast you can load. No slower than an auto once you get used to it.

Posted by: garrett at January 29, 2013 01:12 PM (gFNtS)

310 >Capitalism. Is there anything it can't do?


Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:10 PM (GQ8sn)

Anything in the world is possible once someone finds a way to make a buck doing it
Why can't the liberals understand this?

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 01:12 PM (8sCoq)

311 307

Lucky Gunner had a pretty good article on .223 v 5.56 a couple of years ago...IIRC

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at January 29, 2013 01:13 PM (RIm0W)

312 Ever since I learned about her, my right arm is now muscular compared to my left arm.

Have you heard of cross-training?

Posted by: t-bird at January 29, 2013 01:13 PM (FcR7P)

313 WAFFLES AND GUNS

SMOKE AND A PANCAKE!!!

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:13 PM (GQ8sn)

314 291 Whiskey Joe,

Yes we were...I was trained by some of the last of the Vietnam era grunt senior drills and they were ADAMANT about not letting the opfor get the damned tube...

"mortars and IEDs" which were just "booby traps" back then

The M240 Bravo is an interesting piece of kit one of the guys from 2/30 INF let me use the sighting scope on it and it is a fascinating piece of kit.

People think the scope is for point fire and to a degree it is but the way it seems to work also allows enough peripheral to use it for suppression....

The Pig seemed more nimble, but then again I am not as spry as I was then....and even then I was too scrawny to be the GPMG guy I was a grenadier for dismount work.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:13 PM (LRFds)

315 309-Ill have to borrow my dads and play with it some more then.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:13 PM (41VCE)

316 AllenG - I don't expect Perry to do those things, only he should. The best thing he could do for businesses would be to get rid of the confusing margins tax. Just get rid of it altogether. Then lower the sales tax as well, so that the poor also get a tax break. I think this will actually increase tax revenues as more and more businesses willl relocate and open. Plus, I really don't want the government to have a surplus.

Regarding the rainy day fund. I'd rather it not be touched, but infratstructure improvement is better than education as far as usage goes. IMO.

Posted by: SH at January 29, 2013 01:13 PM (gmeXX)

317 A year ago I never owned a gun, never really thought about it, found them scary and a little too tempting as a way to install some skull air-conditioning.

Today I own four.

At least, I will own them when Mike returns them. I wonder what's taking him so long?

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 29, 2013 01:13 PM (xjpRj)

318 Have you heard of cross-training?


Not a lefty. And it feels weird!

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:14 PM (GQ8sn)

319 They've also never heard a 30-06 report. After the first shot (if they're able) they'll be running so fast that they will be in the next county by the time you fire the 8th shot.
Posted by: Nighthawk at January 29, 2013 01:05 PM (RSqz2)

One thing I haven't noticed in the FSA is heroism. They'd just be thugs with guns. Good enough if you are disarmed, but not really good door kickers otherwise.

Posted by: Invictus at January 29, 2013 01:14 PM (OQpzc)

320 Wow- what if I opened a combination shooting range/waffle house?

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 01:14 PM (8sCoq)

321 295
My paper published the interactive map. It was the last straw for me.

Have you moved yet?


Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:09 PM (GQ8sn)


---No, unfortunately I am a blue state hostage. My grandbabies keep me close by. No way I can leave them.

Posted by: real joe at January 29, 2013 01:15 PM (Rg5t/)

322 Y314 Sven1077...me too...some tragic stories and brave guys in that bunch...Sgt. Gooch, IIRC had been with the 173rd...an amazing guy. Would have followed him anywhere...

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at January 29, 2013 01:15 PM (RIm0W)

323 Myth huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVtDjNkOY-c



Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 01:16 PM (53z96)

324
Anything in the world is possible once someone finds a way to make a buck doing it
Why can't the liberals understand this?



Only for the "correct" industries.

Posted by: EC at January 29, 2013 01:16 PM (GQ8sn)

325 Wow- what if I opened a combination shooting range/waffle house?
Posted by: Jones in CO
-------------

I always wanted to open a combo, sports bar/gentlemen's club/indoor gun range.
The testosterone levels there would repel liberals withing 50 miles of it.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 01:16 PM (uhftQ)

326 I believe one answer lies within our Rainy Day Fund.

The Rainy Day Fund was created to ensure we had a sufficient amount in reserve in case of disaster, and to ensure Texas maintains its strong credit rating.

Due to our economic success, the fund will soon hold nearly $12 billion, significantly more than the amount we need to meet those obligations.
@305
We need to maintain a strong Rainy Day Fund.

While we cannot - and will not - raid the fund to meet ongoing expenses, we also shouldn't accumulate billions more than necessary.

That's why I support a move to utilize $3.7 billion from the Rainy Day Fund for a one-time investment in infrastructure programs.

the entire text.
http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/18095/

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 29, 2013 01:16 PM (DGIjM)

327 314 - Sven1077

PS - ...and none of us are anymore...as spry that is...

Cheers.

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at January 29, 2013 01:17 PM (RIm0W)

328 Well as a denizen of the People's Republic of NY, my options have been limited. I have to see what's available. I'm willing to wait a few months to let the craze pass, and then try to pick something up. I wanted an M1 carbine, but I don't know if those are legal anymore.

Posted by: Iblis at January 29, 2013 01:17 PM (9221z)

329 306 the bad guy,



http://youtu.be/kVtDjNkOY-c

then it is an enduring one....

my grandpa was in WW2 ETO as a rifleman and Korea as an ammo sgt he was happy not to have a garand and an M1 carbine instead in korea.....even happier he was only in one firefight in Korea that never saw the enemy.

He was pretty chewed up legs wise from Europe.

The *ping* as he told it was mostly only an issue in MOUT situations....if you were in the sticks it was less onerous.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:17 PM (LRFds)

330 From the comments, it appears my choice of the Remington 870 as a first purchase was a good one.
My wife was strongly against firearms in the house for ages, which is why it took me so long to get one. What with society crumbling, I finally just went ahead and did it, she will have to deal with it.

Posted by: real joe at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (Rg5t/)

331
"293 ~ I am sorry for your family's tragic loss.
That Mike is one hell of a careless bastard"
I was so distraught that I went to the local (Dulles, VA) show @ Christmas time just to find something to remind me of it... http://tinyurl.com/a96zc5f

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (lbiWb)

332 AllenG - I don't expect Perry to do those things, only he should. The
best thing he could do for businesses would be to get rid of the
confusing margins tax. Just get rid of it altogether. Then lower the
sales tax as well, so that the poor also get a tax break. I think this
will actually increase tax revenues as more and more businesses willl
relocate and open. Plus, I really don't want the government to have a
surplus.



Regarding the rainy day fund. I'd rather it not be touched, but
infratstructure improvement is better than education as far as usage
goes. IMO.


Like I said: he says he wants to make the small business exemption permanent. It's a small step from there (after a few years, of course) to removing the tax all together.

Yeah. I don't have a specific problem with using the rainy day fund for infrastructure. My problem is more... theoretical.

For instance, it has been pretty well proven (for most people) that if you cheat on a diet, no matter how good the reason, once, you're more likely to do it again. And every time you cheat, you're more likely to cheat the next time. I think this is the same thing.

We used the rainy day fund last time because we had a pretty big deficit, and we needed to make ends meet. Okay, fine. Now he wants to use it to pay for infrastructure. Well.... okay. But what will the next one be for?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (8y9MW)

333 I have a fairly extensive gun collection. It's a shooter's collection, not worth much in terms of museum value, but each of those pieces is cleaned and well-maintained. After we got together, I promised my girlfriend I would keep whatever future gun purchases I made within the $300-$500 range, and would discuss those purchases with her beforehand. I grew up around guns--shooting and hunting were just part of the day--and my late Stepfather always stressed having at least a few hundred rounds of ammo around for each weapon in the house, just because. I also own body armor, and suggest everyone buy the best vest they can afford. Just because.

If armed federals start going door to door confiscating firearms or if gun owners are declared instant felons by the sheer act of possession, then we'll know a certain point has been reached, a line has been crossed, and a constitutional promise has been broken. If such a thing happens, I recommend each person follow his or her conscience in the matter. I know where I stand.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (vtiE6)

334 325-
Don't laugh, I think these days there would be a market for a lady's gun shop. A Victoria's secret for weapons. A nice clean shop that looks like an upscale shoe store.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (41VCE)

335 Myth huh?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVtDjNkOY-c
Posted by: Vic
---------
He means that guys got killed when the ping happened. Recently American Rifleman and few other mags had interviews with German soldiers and American soldiers. They said that even IF they heard the ping above all the fighting, they didn't go rushing at the soldier.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (uhftQ)

336 So I've been drooling over at Barrett's website. The have their price sheet on a pdf. What's the first thing you see after the TOC?


The California Legislature has banned the .50 BMG from its good citizens, violating their rights and the constitution of our republic. Therefore, Barrett
will not sell to or service any California government agencies.



Effective January 9, 2013

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 29, 2013 01:19 PM (da5Wo)

337 Ace is up

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 01:19 PM (53z96)

338 12 gauge pump, why? I am not challenging, I'm just curious on your reasons. Better than a semi auto?

Some semi's get persnickity when they get even slightly dirty.
Failure to Feed. Pumps usually don't have that problem. At least, I've never had one.
Plus, most every bad guy knows the "racking" sound a pump makes. Semi's don't quite make the same sound.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 29, 2013 01:19 PM (GFM2b)

339 322 Whiskey joe,

My guy was MSGT Plunkett....guy was in 'nam at 18 in '71 and was at grenada and Haiti.....

He sounded like a soft spoken John Wayne and everyone listened.

During hell week he introduced himself, showed a scar from willy pete and said, "I do not raise my voice and I am willing to answer any question but will not casually repeat myself. You screw up at this job you die."

I was pretty cocky but that calmed me way down.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:20 PM (LRFds)

340 Plus, most every bad guy knows the "racking" sound a pump makes. Semi's don't quite make the same sound.

---------------

That's my dad's argument for the pump. I have to agree with that, just that racking sound would make me shit my pants if I was where I should not be.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:20 PM (41VCE)

341 Wow- what if I opened a combination shooting range/waffle house?
Posted by: Jones in CO at January 29, 2013 01:14 PM (8sCoq)



*sidles over* Hi. How you doin'?

From back of napkin calculations, it looks like my tax return will be somewhat larger than I thought so I'm thinking it's time to get a new shotgun.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 29, 2013 01:21 PM (VtjlW)

342 306
The Garand ping is for all intents and purposes, a myth.
Posted by: The bad guy at January 29, 2013 01:11 PM (vbh31)

Damn, my ears must be Myth-taken.

Posted by: trainer @ work at January 29, 2013 01:22 PM (QbdUW)

343 The 7 round limit on magazine capacity here in NY is de facto confiscation.

Although my old Remington Viper .22 needs alot of TLC to keep working and is a blast to shoot, Remington made a mistake with this model (522) and it went out of production shortly after it hit the market.

Its been impossible to get the standard 10 round mag for the last 10 years, so 7 round editions are and will, be non-existent. The jury is still out whether old mags can be legally modified (I don't care what the Governors web site or his traveling dog and pony show of State Police are saying), its now a museum piece in my gun safe.

Here's a thought , maybe I can off-load this new minted antique in a buy back program ...the libs won't know they just bought a piece of junk and will believe they've prevent another gun crime.....and I'll have 100 of their dollars to put a in new, fully functional firearm...Happy, Happy, Happy

Posted by: CelticCaptain at January 29, 2013 01:23 PM (7N2jC)

344 They said that even IF they heard the ping above all the fighting, they didn't go rushing at the soldier.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (uhftQ)

The story I heard was from soldiers in the South Pacific island campaigns. The Japanese would rush when they heard the pings.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 01:24 PM (53z96)

345
Every Man Should Have A Rifle



So I sit and write and ponder, while the house is deaf and dumb,

Seeing visions "over yonder" of the war I know must come.

In the corner - not a vision - but a sign for coming days

Stand a box of ammunition and a rifle in green baize.

And in this, the living present, let the word go through the land,

Every tradesman, clerk and peasant should have these two things at hand.



No - no ranting song is needed, and no meeting, flag or fuss -

In the future, still unheeded, shall the spirit come to us!

Without feathers, drum or riot on the day that is to be,

We shall march down, very quiet, to our stations by the sea.

While the bitter parties stifle every voice that warns of war,

Every man should own a rifle and have cartridges in store!



~ by Henry Lawson, 1907 ~

Henry Lawson

Posted by: trainer @ work at January 29, 2013 01:25 PM (QbdUW)

346 One thing I haven't noticed in the FSA is heroism. They'd just be thugs with guns. Good enough if you are disarmed, but not really good door kickers otherwise.

They'll shit themselves when they see flashes from 300 yds out & their buddies start dropping around them.
300 yds is a lot farther than curb to sidewalk.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 29, 2013 01:25 PM (GFM2b)

347 Damn the gun threads are awesome!!!

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:26 PM (41VCE)

348 235 @226

What do you want the rifle to be able to do?


Something that's semiautomatic and good for home defense.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 29, 2013 01:26 PM (bZKG0)

349
Sample size of one.
I very much want to arm my family...and we're not currently armed. (At least not in our immediate home.)
So yeah, I'd be right in the thick of things with those lines if I were able to at this juncture.

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at January 29, 2013 01:28 PM (gYH0R)

350 Here in NorCal, the CCW classes are packed to the gills, the ammo shelves largely empty and the gun walls near barren. Lots of newbies.

To paraphrase Martha Stewart, it's a fucking great thing.

Posted by: eureka! at January 29, 2013 01:28 PM (HPRku)

351 348- If you are ok with 10 rounds get a hi-point carbine

You can get scary stock or a less scary stock. Short and easy to put your hands on ammo.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:29 PM (41VCE)

352 Okay, I've read the transcript, and it doesn't sound quite as bad as I feared.

Here's what he's saying (and it's kind of important that its in this order)-
1- Constitutional Amendment to allow the state to return unused tax dollars back to the tax payers.

2- Find some way, this session, to provide that kind of tax relief within the current constitutional framework.

3- Reduce taxes further (specific methods up for debate).

4- Stop diverting funds from purpose-specific accounts to the general fund.

5- One time payment, specifically out of the rainy day surplus (I think it's only ever supposed to get around 9bn) for roads and water infrastructure.

When you combine 4 and 5, you get long-term maintenance of our infrastructure (which is important) and reduce the need for toll-roads for new construction.

I'm okay with that, as far as it goes. I'm still dubious- like I said, once you do it once, it's easier to do the next time, and the next time, and...

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 29, 2013 01:29 PM (8y9MW)

353 300 yds is a lot farther than curb to sidewalk.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 29, 2013 01:25 PM (GFM2b)

When they break 30 yards, I'll drop the rifle and pick up the 12ga. When they knock down the door, I'll pull the 1911. When I die, they will not know about the dead man's switch. Ain't nobody going to have my shit.

Posted by: Invictus at January 29, 2013 01:29 PM (OQpzc)

354
As has been noted, part of the ammo availability problem has been the govt competing with the citizens to get it.

ps - brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 29, 2013 01:30 PM (p/cQy)

355 348- I like the 995
http://tinyurl.com/7epht7f

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:30 PM (41VCE)

356 I've never owned a gun and never felt like I needed one, but I am planning on buying a gun as soon as I can. It's not just my concern about the 2nd amendment, but the feeling that we are deliberately being pushed against the wall by an increasingly tyrranical government. Just five years ago I would have laughed at the idea that there would be a second American revolution, but now I really feel like it might come to that. I hope not, but I want to be ready if it does.

Posted by: biancaneve at January 29, 2013 01:32 PM (6bYlh)

357 I live in the People's Republic of Maryland which like many of the northeast blue states (New York, Mass, Connecticut etc) has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. In Maryland, not only are so-called "assault weapons" regulated (in Maryland regulated means the firearm must be registered with the State Police and you can only purchase one every 30 days) but ALL handguns are also regulated.

I recently purchased a new revolver and went through all of the paperwork and background check process. What prior to this gun buying frenzy was about a 5-7 day process for the paperwork and background check here in Maryland is now taking 25 -30 days. All of the paperwork and background checks are done by the Maryland State Police. My gun dealer said that the State Police told him that they are getting over 600 new regulated firearms applications a day! This is frickin' Maryland! The State Police have never seen anything like it. Oh, and try finding an AR15 style weapon for sale. If you can, they're going for three times what they were two months ago. And it's not just ARs. Just about every type of firearm is scarce and all of them are much more expensive when you do find them.

As for ammunition, everything is in very short supply. I had to wait over two weeks to get .45 ACP and am currently waiting until the end of February to get .410 shotshells, that's a five week wait since I first placed the order. .410 shotshells for crissakes! I've never seen anything like it myself.

So, to answer the question, I think it's both current and new gun owners that are snapping up everything in sight, and it's the gun grabbers that are driving it. Here in Maryland, our super-liberal Governor O'Malley is trying to go to the left of Cuomo and is planning to introduce even stricter (than we already have) legislation banning assault weapons, instituting a 10 round limit on magazine capacity, registration of all firearms including already owned firearms, making it harder to purchase any handgun, banning online ammo purchases etc, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, there's pretty much nothing we can do. Both state houses and the governorship are controlled by super-liberal democrats and they are using the Newtown shooting to the hilt to ram their monstrosity through. I should have stayed in Virginia.

Posted by: Legio Invictus at January 29, 2013 01:33 PM (xgCQN)

358 My first gun was given to me by my dad when I was 8. It's a cap and ball Navy .36, weighs about 3 lbs, 7.5 inch barrel.
My dad believed in gun control so he never showed me how to load it because I would have loaded it.
It was more useful as a club or hammer anyway. I took it to school a few times for show tell and as part of a halloween costume. No one cared but then I grew up when most people weren't total pussies.

Posted by: CozMark at January 29, 2013 01:33 PM (nDeB2)

359 356-
I take the stand, that it is a pleasant and healthy hobby. That might just save my family if things should get squirly. Nothing wrong or extreme about that.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 01:34 PM (41VCE)

360 358 CozMark,

if it is steel framed do a bing on "kirst Konverter/Jay strite"....

.38 special for the win

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:39 PM (LRFds)

361 "5.56 in a barrel marked .223 can go boom.in your face"

BS

Posted by: Farmer at January 29, 2013 01:41 PM (dFb72)

362 I bought some re-loaded .308 at a small gun store. $24. for a box of 20...

Posted by: Frankly at January 29, 2013 01:42 PM (ML8WY)

363
"Plus, most every bad guy knows the "racking" sound a pump makes. Semi's don't quite make the same sound."

---------------

"That's my dad's argument for the pump. I have to agree with that, just that racking sound would make me shit my pants if I was where I should not be."


Guys, PLEASE don't buy into that mythology. It may work on some and not on others. Your life isn't worth that gamble. I'm not saying shoot first and ask questions later. I'm saying if your brain is sending you alarm bells that your life is about to violently end, forget the fun and games of scaring him off with a racking sound and pull the damn trigger.

I compete with handguns to the tune of a thousand rounds a month and own various rifles. But there's a 18" Remmy 870 leaning against the nightstand because I know OO Buck will be the most effective option for repelling boarders at 3am. Period.

Helpful hint: Run the slide on that pump like it owes you money. You ain't gonna break it. But if you try to finesse it, you stand a good chance of short stroking theaction and jamming it up to the point it turns into a $300 club.

Posted by: Jaws at January 29, 2013 01:43 PM (4I3Uo)

364 Helicopters hovering over major US cities conducting "exercises" does not lighten my queasiness over coming tyranny. Sec. Napolitano buying AR-15's by the thousands for "protection" does not bode well for the future. The EPA having millions of rounds of ammunition does not bode well... President O'Bumbles requiring Generals to accept the potential of having to fire on American citizens as a prerequisite of continuing as an American General does not ....

Posted by: dfbaskwill at January 29, 2013 01:43 PM (71LDo)

365 .38 special for the win
Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:39 PM (LRFds)

.38 Long. Unlessthey've introduced .38 Special recently, I bought a .45 Colt Kirst Konverter for my Remington .44 cap-and-ball not too long ago, and didn't see .38 Special conversion cylinders for .36 Navies on their website.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 01:46 PM (vtiE6)

366 #325

Boobehs and guns. . .good.
Ethanol and guns. . .bad.

So that's a pipe dream. You'll never get zoned for that.


Posted by: looking closely at January 29, 2013 01:47 PM (6Q9g2)

367 In WWII, some Germans learned what the M1 ping was. Some GIs died.
The GIs quickly learned how to fake an M1 ping. Some Germans died.

Posted by: Max Entropy at January 29, 2013 01:48 PM (DT5ol)

368 Some of yall need to buy some water-wings or something for your guns before you take them boating.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 01:49 PM (UU0OF)

369 Anecdotally, I also think its new buyers. It isn't as if sportsmen all over America decided to go duck hunting all at once. New buyers buying non sporting arms.

Posted by: Jordan at January 29, 2013 01:49 PM (Hz1zc)

370 361 Farmer,

Oddly Ruger disagrees.


I would do it in a jam but I would not like it.

The SAAMI pressures *are* different.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:51 PM (LRFds)

371 Hahahahaha. Fuck you guys.

Posted by: Mike... in Mexico at January 29, 2013 01:53 PM (DT5ol)

372 Never. Kill. The. Gun. Thread.

Posted by: Rule #2 at January 29, 2013 01:53 PM (CypDC)

373 365 TroyRiser,

You can send it to Strite and get it spec'd for .38sp...bore lined and gapped.

Yeah they are sold .38 long as is the Howell RD conversion....

anyway I broke down and got the bigger Uberti '72s and 51 RMs because of my brass frame going "ow"......

as always unless a machinist/gunsmith hire a pro.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:56 PM (LRFds)

374 .22 LR is short because the lead and copper are going into more profitable production lines.

As for myself, I can't be trusted to buy new guns, because I foolishly let all of mine sink in that horrible canoe accident in Long Island Sound.

Posted by: Thatguy at January 29, 2013 01:57 PM (GxTMf)

375 365 TroyRiser,

also the .38s for the Remmy Navies had a flaw...I'llhave to go back and look if they are rereleased yet.

You like the '58 conversion I am thinking about doing up a '58 Carbine in .45?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:57 PM (LRFds)

376 Then barrel makers make different barrels for military and Ruger. I don’t think so. The difference in the round in the case dimensions in the neck area. I have shot LC ammo, 556, from my 223 for years with no problems and no signs of over pressure. The SAAMI pressures may be different, but that doesn’t mean they are at a dangerous level. Ruger is covering their ass if their product fails.

Posted by: Farmer at January 29, 2013 02:02 PM (dFb72)

377 The "rack" of the AR type is reasonably impressive. The average douchebag will not know the diff.

Posted by: nip at January 29, 2013 02:03 PM (11Tdq)

378 Own a shotgun, thinking REAL hard on getting a handgun - do I NEED one? Nope. Would I be better off waiting for the panic to subside? No idea, but would rather be grandfathered in than jump thru new hoops.

Posted by: Red Shirt at January 29, 2013 02:03 PM (FIDMq)

379 376 farmer,

and I can buy that....I wouldn't bet my ghin on it indefinitely but I can buy it for most Rugers...

I'm just a stickler and don't like giving advice outside the manufacturers.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:04 PM (LRFds)

380 JohnE talked me into it: If you have gun questions, fire them to me on Twitter for the next hour or so and I'll answer them the best I can.

@bob_owens


Posted by: Bob Owens at January 29, 2013 02:06 PM (0XY0O)

381
You clowns who lost ur guns in a boating accident are lyin like the King, but seriously, like I said, like I've always said, last week, three Professional baby makers with their pants around their knees hauled off my entire 20 gun safe stuffed full of guns, ammo and other not for childrens type "toys', some of em even the wifes and boy is she evah pissed off about it.

Now I have to git in line behind all the new buyers like some kinda southern border river swimmer is supposed tojust to replace my AKs, ARs, handguns, short guns and ammo from non existant supplies.
i guess just the mention of the Lyin kINg banning guns caused mine to leave me and end up with the bangers.

Posted by: ConcealedKerry or submitt at January 29, 2013 02:06 PM (vXqv3)

382 In other news, BP pleads guilty to manslaughter. Maybe we should ban oil exploration? Won't someone think of the children?

Posted by: Jordan at January 29, 2013 02:09 PM (Hz1zc)

383 He means that guys got killed when the ping
happened. Recently American Rifleman and few other mags had interviews
with German soldiers and American soldiers. They said that even IF they
heard the ping above all the fighting, they didn't go rushing at the
soldier.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at January 29, 2013 01:18 PM (uhftQ)

This may have been true because American soldiers started throwing empty clips on the ground to make the same noise. That's what I've read anyways.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at January 29, 2013 02:11 PM (xAtAj)

384 You like the '58 conversion I am thinking about doing up a '58 Carbine in .45?
Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 01:57 PM (LRFds)

I absolutely love the conversion. The '58 Rem, in my view, is one of the most beautifully designedand best handling big revolvers ever made, and the conversion cylinder has made it one of my favorite shooters. I only shoot lower-powered Cowboy cartridges at the range but keep it loaded with regular loads on the nightstand.

I'm trying to find .45 Colt Lee dies so I can reduce the cost of shooting the thing. No luck so far, with all sold out everywhere.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:12 PM (vtiE6)

385 382 Jordan,

Hey Jordan you're a rare gateway into the moonbat mind...why is it okay for giggles to kill coal power everywhere but DC still uses coal power???

Is it MAGICAL coal in DC?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:13 PM (LRFds)

386 384 Troy Riser,

Yeah Kirst really loves his remmys....

I'd like to convert a Colt Root rifle but that is a 15,000 buck endeavor.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:14 PM (LRFds)

387 Re#202 sven10077
"the whole key is how many manhours at what cost for equipment per search is the Govt gonna do?"

Initially, there does not need to be any sort of confiscation.
Remember, a felon isn't allowed to vote.
And while the government can't figure out how to make card check work, I'm pretty sure they'll can get your name off the voting rolls.

Posted by: RayJ at January 29, 2013 02:15 PM (pI/IV)

388 I'd like to convert a Colt Root rifle but that is a 15,000 buck endeavor.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:14 PM (LRFds)

$15,000? In Washington DC terms, that's a lot of hookers and blow.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:16 PM (vtiE6)

389 "385 382 Jordan,

Hey Jordan you're a rare gateway into the moonbat mind...why is it okay for giggles to kill coal power everywhere but DC still uses coal power???"

Kill coal power everywhere but DC? That's news to me. We still use it here in Colorado. All of the above for the win.

Posted by: Jordan at January 29, 2013 02:16 PM (Hz1zc)

390 $15,000? In Washington DC terms, that's a lot of UNDERAGE hookers and blow.

Fixed that for ya.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 02:17 PM (41VCE)

391 I have been considering getting a gun for probably a little over a year now. Maybe a small caliber revolver, or perhaps a shotgun. I think maybe I'll wait until the current insanity dies down, though.

Posted by: Lewis at January 29, 2013 02:17 PM (Y3uPw)

392 The Troll only thrives at the end of a thread.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 02:17 PM (41VCE)

393 391-
I hope things settle a bit in the next two months. I also hope all the new gun folks keep up the hobby and pressure.

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 02:19 PM (41VCE)

394 "391 I have been considering getting a gun for probably a little over a year now. Maybe a small caliber revolver, or perhaps a shotgun. I think maybe I'll wait until the current insanity dies down, though."

Get a shotgun! Cheap to feed, fun to shoot with the whole family and tops for home defense.

Posted by: Jordan at January 29, 2013 02:21 PM (Hz1zc)

395 Oh this is a cute little shotgun to keep around the house..

http://tinyurl.com/bz3h5f6

Posted by: gigg at January 29, 2013 02:22 PM (41VCE)

396 I don't understand why people keep repeating that "ping makes the enemy charge" nonsense. First of all, you'd have to hear the noise over the .30-06, 8mm, and 7.7 reports going off all around you, then charge in the two seconds it takes to reload, but most of all, it's not like this was a one-on-one gunfight. An entire squad isn;t going to need to reload simultaneously. Assuming you could hear the ping at all, you'd hear a constant stream of them, with steady fire as the squad, platoon, company, etc... fired as a group.

Posted by: Thatguy at January 29, 2013 02:22 PM (FKGw9)

397 389 Jordan,

It's leaving scooter..."all of the above" has asterisks it is Obamaville....

http://tinyurl.com/b9scxwf

Breitbart-DC still using coal

You are arguing Ogabe is not targeting coal then?

You do not see particularly rich hypocrisy in Dear Reader not "living up to his own rules?'

20% by last year the private sector is shutting 'em down 300% ahead of schedule mi amigo!

So since EPA and the enviros contend broken window fallacy is not real can we start breaking stuff at random since "it helps?"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:23 PM (LRFds)

398 The day after the election I bought an AR-15. A few weeks ago, I bought a Glock 21, .45 ACP, as a compliment to my 9mm and 12 gauge Rem 870.

Ammo, on the other hand... Dallas / Fort Worth is mostly sold out of everything.

Posted by: Naqamel at January 29, 2013 02:23 PM (UMwMT)

399 "You are arguing Ogabe is not targeting coal then?"

I'm not making an argument, Sven. You're arguing with yourself. Keep going, I gotta work.

Posted by: Jordan at January 29, 2013 02:25 PM (Hz1zc)

400 I have been considering getting a gun for probably a little over a year now. Maybe a small caliber revolver, or perhaps a shotgun. I think maybe I'll wait until the current insanity dies down, though.
Posted by: Lewis at January 29, 2013 02:17 PM (Y3uPw)

You can still walk into just about any gun shop in my area (central Indiana) and get a decent pistol or revolver in a common caliber at a reasonable price. My FFL dealer, who happens to be a personal friend, says a lot of new buyers are going for the high end stuff. When you tell a dealer you want the best, he'll sell you the most expensive gun in the shop if he can. You can't fault him for it, either.

The best handgun I own is a 50-year-old SW Model 14-2 K38 Target Masterpiece .38 Special revolver. Recently, I saw an onlineGunsAmerica listing for a Model 15 K38 Combat Masterpiece (the police version of the gun I own) for $450. Yeah, I know: .38 Special doesn't seem so special anymore. Everybody likes the more powerful calibers. I happen to like .38 Special and know--from its decades of use in police forces all over the world--that it'll get the job done.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:25 PM (vtiE6)

401 399 Jordan,

You said "all of the above"...

I'm just wondering when your unicorn balnium q-36 modulator is getting online.

take your bow buddy

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:28 PM (LRFds)

402 Question...thinking of getting a glock-23, what was going price pre-insanity?...seeing them around mid 500's now.

Posted by: Red Shirt at January 29, 2013 02:28 PM (FIDMq)

403 400 TroyRiser,

the Model 10 with bull barrel is a nice shooter.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:29 PM (LRFds)

404 I happen to like .38 Special and know--from its decades of use in police forces all over the world--that it'll get the job done.

... except for that Georgia woman in her attic that hit the bad guy with 5 rounds from a .38, and he lived.

Home defense? 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN, 00 buck.

Posted by: Naqamel at January 29, 2013 02:29 PM (UMwMT)

405 Your Wingmaster is the best home defense weapon, IMO, Naqamel. I've got one under my bed.

Posted by: Jordan at January 29, 2013 02:32 PM (Hz1zc)

406 Sorry--the idea that firing 5.56 in a .223 is not bright and this is a well recognized fact. If you reload, you would recognize this fact.

.223 ammo in 5.56 NATO rifle-no problem. 5.56 in .223 SAAMI chamber--not good. There is a third chambering: a wildcat (not approved by SAAMI) .223 Wylde that splits the difference on the throat/lede dimension. NATO has a more generous chamber and lede to permit variations in ammo between countries--accuracy suffers a little. SAAMI focuses on target and sporting where accuracy sells so the lede is tighter. Recently, my father-in-law permitted a guy to fire his .223 chambered AR-within a few XM193 Nato rounds, the gun began to jam. Only then did my father in law find out what ammo the guy was firing.

"On a .223 Remington spec rifle, the leade will be 0.085”. This is the
standard described by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’
Institute, Inc. (SAAMI). The leade in a 5.56 NATO spec rifle is 0.162”,
or almost double the leade of the .223 rifle. "

Pressure spikes from NATO 5.56 won't do your .223 any good regarding bolts, springs, and other breakables and depending on the throat, dirty chamber, brass quality, number of rounds fired, etc. COULD result in kaboom.

Good summary here with pix
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149

Posted by: wg at January 29, 2013 02:37 PM (WLEtw)

407 404 Nagamel,

Not all .38 sp is equal.

http://tinyurl.com/3cuzlcb

Check out the chart.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:38 PM (LRFds)

408 406 WG,

The pressure difference is real.

I would ignore it in a jam.

I would prefer to own 5.56 always.

I would never suggest to anyone to put 5.56 down a .223, I will tell everyone .223 down 5.56 is okay in most cases.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:39 PM (LRFds)

409 ... except for that Georgia woman in her attic that hit the bad guy with 5 rounds from a .38, and he lived. Home defense? 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN, 00 buck.
Posted by: Naqamel at January 29, 2013 02:29 PM (UMwMT)

The batshit crazy bankrobber and killer Michael Platt was shot 12 times by the FBI agents in the 1986 Miami shootout with .38 Special +P, 9mm, and 000 buckshot throughout the course of a 4-minute gunfight. Platt didn't go down until he had killed two agents and wounded all but one of the rest (his primary weapon wasa Ruger Mini-14). Two of the 9mm hits should've stopped him in place. Oneof the 9mm bullets (fired by Agent Jerry Dove) severedPlatt's brachial arteries in his chest andwas an invariablyfatal wound, but he kept moving and shooting until Agent Mireles, badly wounded,charged the car and shot Platt multiple times in the head from about 2 feet away. Plattwasn't on drugs.

There are too many variables to say this or that particular cartridge or caliber or gauge is optimal in every situation. You say shotgun for home defense? Fine. I like a large-caliber pistol or revolver for that purpose since I want one of my hands free. But that's just me.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:42 PM (vtiE6)

410
You know what would serve first-time gun buyers better than buying a gun? Fucking VOTING. Hope to see them all in 2014.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 29, 2013 02:45 PM (E/BRX)

411 409 Troyriser,

The human body is an amazing instrument and wound ballistics are a chaos theory equation.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:45 PM (LRFds)

412 Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:42 PM (vtiE6)

If he had been hit in the chest with a .45 acp or a .40 he would have went down. Not to mention a .44 mag.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 02:47 PM (53z96)

413 409 Troyriser,The human body is an amazing instrument and wound ballistics are a chaos theory equation.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:45 PM (LRFds)

According to an FBI study conducted after the Miami shootout, 15% of people shot by means of handguns fall down because they think they're supposed to fall down. They're conditioned by years of action movies to believe that, if shot, they must fall down. So they fall down.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:49 PM (vtiE6)

414 412 Vic,

Eh....

"yes" BUT then again maybe not....Baby Face Nelson was a machine for example.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:52 PM (LRFds)

415 Alternatives for the folks that can't find guns.

Re: cheaper alternative home defense--
Humble .30-.30 in a lever action Marlin 336 or Winchester 94. Ammo is generally available, it is cheap, and parts abound for these rifles.

Bolt action--look for a .303 Enfield--either Mk 4 #1 or the older Mk 1 #3 with a stock magazine. Magazine holds ten rounds, rounds comparable to .30-40 Krag in power, brass, parts, and ammunition available (a little pricier than .30-.30).

Shotguns--look for a Mossberg 500 with dual action bars. Many old battered 500's out there and generally cheaper than 870. For self defense, you can also look for an older 2 3/4" chamber 870 which bring less--however look for the flex tab version if possible-less likely to tie up. Both the 870 and 500 have parts out the wazoo and cheap 18 1/2 barrels for Home Defense.

.22's--don't overlook the Marlin Model 60--you will also find store brands of this rifle with names like JC Higgins, Ted Williams, etc. It is tube fed but extremely rugged and accurate. In a magazine fed variant, the Marlin 795 is quite good with a ten round detachable magazine. Parts are plentiful. Mossberg 795 Plinkster have heard good things about but never shot. Last but not least, Savage Model 64/Stevens Model 62 is a magazine fed .22 sold by WalMart, Academy, etc. Very accurate but less common on parts. Unfortunately, none of the above have the number of accessories that 10/22 has. But, if you are looking for cheaper alternatives that will get the job done, try looking at some of the above alternatives.

Re revolvers and pistols--not even going to get into that one other than revolvers are generally cheaper but lower capacity. Semi's a bit more complicated to operate and need magazines. Get what fits your hands.

Posted by: wg at January 29, 2013 02:53 PM (WLEtw)

416 Winchester Mod 94 is no longer cheap.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 02:55 PM (53z96)

417 413 TroyRiser,

Yeah...stats say that a person shot has 2-5 minutes of motion without catastrophic hydrostatic shock or wound channel to a major blood pool reservoir.

I dunno I have never been in a firefight as a pointed shooter, God willing will never have the need to aim to kill.

Have been shot AT twice first time multiple shots fired and was more scared by the one shot in my early adulthood than the multiples in my youth.

Can't imagine how Chicagoans are not fighting tooth and nail for CCW.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 02:56 PM (LRFds)

418 Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:42 PM (vtiE6)If he had been hit in the chest with a .45 acp or a .40 he would have went down. Not to mention a .44 mag.
Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 02:47 PM (53z96)

Not necessarily true. Handguns are not rifles. There is no guaranteed one-shot-stop from a handgun caliber bullet unless you manage to hit the brain--specifically the medulla oblongata--or the spinal cord, causing a CNS disruption. Otherwise, it's a mountain of variables, a crapshoot. Even a heart shot is not a sure thing right away since it takes several seconds to bleed out.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:57 PM (vtiE6)

419 According to an FBI study conducted after the Miami shootout, 15% of
people shot by means of handguns fall down because they think they're
supposed to fall down.




Yeah, that 15% was probably shot with a .22 or a .25.


Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 02:58 PM (53z96)

420 Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 02:57 PM (vtiE6)


BULLSHIT

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 02:58 PM (53z96)

421 I'd never purchased a firearm or owned one, for that matter, until the jackasses started up with that first "assault rifle" crap during Pres. Blowjob's term. It pissed me off so much, I wound up going on quite a buying spree.

Posted by: Buddha the Magnificent at January 29, 2013 03:10 PM (8NlUk)

422 406 Not suggesting that you were leading people astray Sven,

Was responding to what an earlier poster said. Don't want any newbies putting the wrong ammo into their new gun and getting hurt. I also hang out on reloading websites and see people alleging that the mean ole ammunition/firearm manufacturers don't know their own products and limitations.


Posted by: wg at January 29, 2013 03:11 PM (WLEtw)

423 420 Vic,

Guy you can look up the data culled from autopsies and coroner's reports.

I gave a link... has one shot stops

.44 mag is lethal in common loadings from 76-92%

5.56 is 83-98%

.45 ACP 57-96%

,40 smithwesson is 61-94%

.38sp 47-65%

Now the list is not all inclusive as shown but I've read the study it is detailed there's a youtube of the methodolgy used in the study....

the real shocker to me was the parity between .357 mag at 125 grains vs the .45 ACP at 230 gr

Both clock in at 96% batting average but the .357 mag has about 5 times the uses in the study...

point is accuracy is key and you have to be able to be comfortable practicing with your weapon....

my open tops can't get the 20% 1 shot stop jump my SW five shot can take with the +p load BUT I also have data that loading 158gr semi wads helps enough I am not bothered.

a 7 1/2" Navy colt in .38 sp is my nightstand gun.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 03:12 PM (LRFds)

424 422 WG,

nah it's all good and thanks...you can never stress safety too much with guns....

"safety" means safely using not as newspeak means "safely gone"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 03:14 PM (LRFds)

425 I suppose that those who already own guns may well have been buying most of the AR-15s, but I'm guessing that the "normal" guns, particularly pistols, are being bought by first time buyers.

After all, I just bought a Walther PPQ. And while I've gone shooting and had a shotgun when I was a kid, it counts as a "first gun" because I haven't owned one or had one in the house as an adult until now.

Posted by: Synova at January 29, 2013 03:15 PM (7/PU+)

426 Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 02:58 PM (53z96)

Handguns are not rifles. I'll spell it out phonetically if you like.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 03:15 PM (vtiE6)

427 426 Troyriser,

5.56's weakest performance at 55gr matches statistically the high just below peak average for .45acp and .357mag which shocked me.

.308 and 7mm are pretty much god night Irene kisses center mass....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 03:20 PM (LRFds)

428 I gave a link... has one shot stops


Was not trying to say 1 shot kills. Hell I have heard of a guy in CA at a gun shop surviving 7 shots in the chest with a .45 acp. But he did not do it standing up.


What I was trying to say was it would put him down. He would be on the ground. That is what the .45 acp was invented for.

Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 03:32 PM (53z96)

429 .308 and 7mm are pretty much god night Irene kisses center mass....
Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 03:20 PM (LRFds)

Everyone goes on abouthydrostatic shock, but that instantly incapacitating wound effect is attained only with rifle cartridges containing bullets of a certain weight, moving at velocities not achievable by any buthe most expensive (and often experimental) platforms out there.

Owning a custom-modified Ruger Super Redhawk would be nice, though.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 03:35 PM (vtiE6)

430 What I was trying to say was it would put him down. He would be on the ground. That is what the .45 acp was invented for.
Posted by: Vic at January 29, 2013 03:32 PM (53z96)

That's what the feds thought, too. The .40 SW resulted from the 1986 Miami shootout.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 03:37 PM (vtiE6)

431 correction: not achievable by any buthe most expensive (and often experimental) handgun platforms out there.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 03:39 PM (vtiE6)

432 No love for the SKS around here? I had 2 of them. 1 was scary black folding and the other just the old wood with the cleaning kit inside a trap door in the stock... Before Mike and his boat came by.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 03:39 PM (UU0OF)

433 428 Vic,

I can buy that and the testing definitely does support the contention the war dept made on the need for power.

It is a profound ballistic difference that blew me away study wise.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 03:40 PM (LRFds)

434 No love for the SKS around here? I had 2 of them. 1 was scary black folding and the other just the old wood with the cleaning kit inside a trap door in the stock... Before Mike and his boat came by.
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 03:39 PM (UU0OF)

I own a Yugo 59/66 SKS.I don't believe in tricking out already fine rifles so I kept it as-is except for the installation of a recoil buffer to reduce wear.I love that rifle: accurate, reliable, and sturdy. I'd like to think Ican reload with an SKS stripper clip nearly as quickly as some/most people can reload with a detachable magazine.

I also like the grenade launcher attachment and the folding bayonet, which help when it comes to the killing of imperialist rabbits and capitalist squirrels.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 03:47 PM (vtiE6)

435 I love my SKS. Can't understand why nobody in any of these threads mentions it. Maybe they are still cussing after getting their thumb caught by the bolt when using the stripper clips

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 04:02 PM (UU0OF)

436 I love my SKS. Can't understand why nobody in any of these threads mentions it. Maybe they are still cussing after getting their thumb caught by the bolt when using the stripper clips
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 04:02 PM (UU0OF)

I've been too good and too fast for that damn bolt so far. *fingers crossed*

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 04:05 PM (vtiE6)

437 435 Schable,

Mine took AK Mags?

I sold or am selling it, I decided to start knocking out oddball ammo unless I was in love with the weapon.

The Sede made the cut my SKS didn't.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 04:08 PM (LRFds)

438 I put a Williams aperture sight on my Yugo SKS. Unscrew the insert and the aperture lines up perfectly with the front sight hood.

Got rid of the GL and the bayo. Too muzzle-heavy.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 29, 2013 04:16 PM (celt+)

439 I sold or am selling it, I decided to start knocking out oddball ammo unless I was in love with the weapon.The Sede made the cut my SKS didn't.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 04:08 PM (LRFds)

'Oddball ammo'? The 7.62 x 39? You blaspheme.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 04:19 PM (vtiE6)

440 I bought mine in '94 for like $89. 1440 rds for another 150. The mags aren't AK, they have an extension at the top that you have to hook into where the original 10rnd box was and kind of rotate it into place. Fun to shoot and loud as hell. Last gun show I went to about 4 years ago they wanted like 350 for the rifle. Have no clue what they want now. Is 7.62x39 oddball ammo?

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 04:20 PM (UU0OF)

441 Is 7.62x39 oddball ammo?
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 04:20 PM (UU0OF)

No. I think sven meant that he wanted to standardize and simplify. I can relate. I've got nearly as many different calibers as I have guns. The optimum is to reduce calibers to as few as possible, and those remaining few should be common, widely available.

Posted by: troyriser at January 29, 2013 04:37 PM (vtiE6)

442 Yeah I kinda figured that. Since these are the only 2 guns I have, its the only ammo I have. I am thinking about a pistol though since its easier to get down a hallway in a home defense situation than the rifle.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 04:42 PM (UU0OF)

443
Bought a shotgun a couple of weeks ago. I enjoy shooting handguns but have never bought a gun before.

It's shocking how fast the NY gun law passed. And the Cal legislature is even MORE left wing. Can't Take A Chance.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at January 29, 2013 04:46 PM (ttwHG)

444 439 Troyriser,

my collection was down to one 7.62*39mm I had given away my AK and NHM-91....I used to be really generous with rifles.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 04:47 PM (LRFds)

445 7.63*39 is Soviet 30/30 or so rimless ammo for repeaters....

it is a good round for intermediate work.

Far more accurate in a SKS than a baseline A non-milled AK.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 04:48 PM (LRFds)

446 I need to hang around sven more often. He gives away guns like people around here lose them to boating accidents

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 29, 2013 04:51 PM (UU0OF)

447 446 Schwable,

I calmed down on that after TNG got elected...last rifle I gave away was a K-31 Swiss to my boss as a 'goodbye" gift...


the action on that rifle is astounding in its precision.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 05:00 PM (LRFds)

448 TFN not TNG...too much Rick perry thread stick time...not Texas national Guard This F*8*ing Guy rather...


Posted by: sven10077 at January 29, 2013 05:00 PM (LRFds)

449 Bought my first pistol, a Beretta Px4 Storm 9 mm for $499 at Scheels last week. 17 capacity mag. Came with 2 mags. No 9 mm ammo at Scheels but found some at a different store. My neighbor just bought some 9 mm for his Beretta M9 at local Cabela's for $14 per 50.
5-6 minutes for the background check. They must not go back 40 years:-)

Posted by: free tibet with purchase of equal value tibet at January 29, 2013 05:52 PM (fHWdz)

450 I had a couple hours to burn today, and checked out a couple of the local gun stores (rural Idaho). Mike asked me to.
Cleaned out. Only a handful of pistols, bolt-actions, and lever-action .22s available. (One store had a selection of EBR remaining, but they'd jacked the prices up to where a basic AR-model started at $2999.)
Ammo shelves were bare. The only .22s I could find were snake rounds. Pistol rounds of all calibers were wiped out. .223 or .308 couldn't be found for love or money (and most calibers were pretty bare. Only the .30-06, .243, and 7mm had a decent selection.) Shotgun shells were readily available.

@226 I'd recommend a Ruger American in the caliber of your choice. (I'd go .30-06, but terrain dictates.) List price is $449 but I've seen them going for $389. (Mike asked me to look.) It'll give you 1 Minute of Angle accuracy in a reliable firearm, and you can use the money saved on ammunition to practice with.

Posted by: Luke at January 29, 2013 06:29 PM (e9HGo)

451
I had a Chinese Norinko SKS. It was a POS. No feed ramps.
Wouldn'tgo five rounds without a violent stovepipe that dented the cartridge.
I sold it and bought a Kel-Tec SU-16C.
No FTFs, and much more accurate.

Posted by: Frankly at January 29, 2013 06:59 PM (ML8WY)

452 "I sold it and bought a Kel-Tec SU-16C."

---------------

Wow! Kel-Tec actually makes rifles? They're not just a myth?

Next you'll tell me I might get my hands on a SUB-2000 within a decade.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 29, 2013 07:25 PM (celt+)

453 Is it sad that I was exited to find 3 boxes of CCI mini mag .22lr at the store today?

Posted by: 45 acp at January 29, 2013 08:09 PM (7PUw4)

454 Obama wants to ban guns and everyone bought guns. Bwah, hah, hah, hah, hah!

Obama wants to reward illegals.^^^^ If the above trend holds up, everyone will personally throw 1 illegal into the Rio grande or across the border in the general direction of Mexico.

@ Everyone..I just love SKS's. @ Sven (445), yep everyone of my SKS's (all 10 of them) are more accurate than my AK's. Bayonets on all but 1, Grenade launchers and night sights on 2. A little hidey hole or two in the stock for the cleaning kit. What's not to love?

Someone mention the K-31? I like them too but that's the conundrum. Which one is more accurate, my K-31, or my Finn M-39? On any given day they are equal. Both of them can shoot better than I can shoot them.



Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at January 29, 2013 08:19 PM (Sedwk)

455
"Humble .30-.30 in a lever action Marlin 336 or Winchester 94. "
Humble my a$$. In the heavy underbrush/undulating terrain of the East Coast, it's the best. As Vic says, they ain't cheap either...

Posted by: Jess1 at January 29, 2013 08:33 PM (lbiWb)






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