3D Printers Are Close To Changing The Ballgame

Ace has written quite often about how pervasive the liberal advocacy has become especially into non-political realms, and it's absolutely true. I stumbled on this article at Tech Crunch over the weekend that proves the point perfectly.

As the race – and it’s basically a race – to release as many 3D-printed gun parts as possible heats up, it’s never been harder for me to come down on the side of the “Freedom To Tinker” crowd. Last weekend Defense Distributed, a group dedicated to releasing plans for a 3D printed gun, posted a video and description of their 3D-printed AR-15 thirty-round magazine. The video, which is, unnecessarily, full of snarky vitriol, shows that, on some level, the 3D printed gun isn’t very far off. It also shows that the call for 3D printer legislation could soon overpower the call for freedom.

The problem with childish displays of firepower coupled with “How’s that national conversation going?” is that it proves that the folks who are doing this tinkering are less than responsible. They feel that this is a freedom of speech issue rather than a gun control issue. It’s abundantly clear that the lads at Defense Distributed are enjoying their newfound notoriety and, like a boy band on their first tour, they’re ready to trash some hotel rooms. The resulting shenanigans have convinced Congressman Steve Israel (D-NY) to call for the banning of undectable 3-D printed high-capacity magazines.

It's quite hysterical that a "defender of the freedom to tinker" would blame the tinkerers over the efforts of an authoritarian congressman to put limits on the technology. You can almost read where his "discretion" and "need to self-censor" commentary would have gone. It's also interesting that the line between exciting technological advancement and dangerous political exploitation just happens to match up perfectly with this preening sissy's delicate sensibilities.

I'd hate to send this guy scrambling to his nearest fainting couch, but we are rapidly approaching a time when these gun control laws are going to be almost impossible to enforce outside of public possession. The "undetectable plastic gun" is largely a James Bond fantasy. However, printable gun parts will be a reality very soon (and by "soon", I could mean "tomorrow"). These advancements, along with those in ceramics and composites, will make it much easier to produce a workable and reliable firearm in the future and the law will have a much harder time keeping up (the major challenges remain in small parts like pins and springs, and of course, barrels). It's also worth noting that we're crossing an important line in terms of affordability and access here. While 3D printers are relatively expensive now (roughly $3k base), as the technology advances, it will become accessible to the public. Your 50" flat-screen HDTV isn't $5000 anymore, for example. Just download a file off the internet, load it into your 3d printer, hit "print" and away you go.

Naturally, whenever a beta-male ninny whines about "snarky vitriol" of gun rights defenders, you know you have to click through. This led me to the guys behind Defense Distributed (@DefDist) who are releasing these 3D files to the public and allowing others to make improvements and changes. This is essentially the programming version of open source, which has been a fantastic avenue for project development and innovation. It seems like they're pretty damn close with the AR-15 mag files and the AK-47 isn't too far behind. They're having some difficulty with the AR-15 lower, which is seeing some extreme stresses in the rear part of the assembly near the buffer ring. They are making progress, however.

Truth be told, I thought he was a little over the top in the testing videos. That is, until I saw his appearance on Glenn Beck's program. He is not a guy that would really be easily pigeonholed into a left/right political philosophy. Definitely an interesting guy and very eloquent and knowledgable.

Patriot or dangerous? I'm siding with patriot. Check out the video below. You'll enjoy it.

Posted by: JohnE. at 05:00 PM



Comments

1 And then Gil Hamilton of ARM [Amalgamated Regional Militia] found something new to hate besides the baby hunts - hunting for 3D printers.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 21, 2013 05:03 PM (MoP0k)

2 Not entirely off topic, but Groupon is not refusing any gun related offers according to what looks like a Gawker site (so no link). Later Groupon, your offers have been mostly crap spamming up my inbox anyways.

Posted by: Xander Crews at January 21, 2013 05:03 PM (LVxGp)

3 *now refusing

Posted by: Xander Crews at January 21, 2013 05:03 PM (LVxGp)

4 Ah , John Maikovich already showed you can make an undetected gun in 1993. Killed two duck hunters and almost a President with it.

Posted by: polynikes at January 21, 2013 05:06 PM (m2CN7)

5 3-D printing of Giselle Bunchen masks will soon be a reality. Watch out, Danny Trejo, your days as a character actor are numbered!

Posted by: Wooga at January 21, 2013 05:10 PM (q4KYY)

6 What's funny is that the same guys complaining about how dare the right release plans for a 3d printed gun are the same ones who want to see copywrite and intellectual property rights thrown into the wind because they believe information must be "free".

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 21, 2013 05:11 PM (o1kXv)

7 I've been looking at 3d printers and rapid prototyping systems for work lately, because I heard they've become less expensive; but anything really useful is still really quite expensive -- $20,000 or $30,000 for ProJet (3D Systems) or Objet (Stratisys) machines.

Has anyone come across something inexpensive that can produce parts with decent resolution? (Say, with steps smaller than 0.005 inches)?

Posted by: Pastafarian at January 21, 2013 05:11 PM (ffv4E)

8 that's right comrades....we need wrench control...

it's coming.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 05:13 PM (LRFds)

9
Let me know when I can print up about 40 million conservatives.

Make that 100 million.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 21, 2013 05:13 PM (1Y+hH)

10 I am no metallurgist, nor a machinist, but I believe my 45ACP develops somewhere between 40-50,000 PSI in the chamber upon firing a round.

How can a barrel capable of withstanding this stress be manufactured in this fashion???? It seems a long way off to me.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 21, 2013 05:16 PM (4Mv1T)

11 it’s basically a race – to release as many 3D-printed gun parts as possible

And for metal parts, I can use my trusty pre-ban, assault file. I have some assault drill bits that work well, too. And a military-style hacksaw.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 05:16 PM (FcR7P)

12 eh, if I'm trying to perfect a weapon and brand new technology, I probably wouldn't post videos on youtube about it. 2 rules in life; rule number 1 don't tell everyone everything you know.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 21, 2013 05:17 PM (NzBQO)

13 An entrepreneur could make an 'undetectable' fortune supplying the criminal market with computer generated, untraceable guns. Go Galt!

Posted by: dtih at January 21, 2013 05:18 PM (BIPhx)

14 This thread is too long to read. I got bored

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at January 21, 2013 05:18 PM (FKQng)

15 >>>between 40-50,000 PSI in the chamber upon firing a round.

More like 20,000 but it is a valid question. Steel isn't the only strong material on Earth it's just very cheap for the very favorable properties it provides.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Offering Moobats Gasoline and Matches at January 21, 2013 05:19 PM (0q2P7)

16 There will be other legal ramifications to 3D printer ownership/use before gun control becomes an issue. For instance, I personally know of a gubermint entity that has one. In addition to producing on-the-fly spare parts, they use it for making keys to things/places they wouldn't ordinarily have. In other words, easier to unlock the door than blow it off the hinges.

Posted by: Country Singer at January 21, 2013 05:19 PM (mDanm)

17 The moral of the story is: "When you casually throw away rights you don't care about, quite soon someone will come for the ones you do care about."

But I doubt the tech-crunch wienies can grasp that.

Posted by: Shel at January 21, 2013 05:19 PM (7KD3C)

18 Has anyone come across something inexpensive that can produce parts with
decent resolution? (Say, with steps smaller than 0.005 inches)?>>

In metal yes in plastic printing no.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/tls/3547752590.html

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 05:19 PM (qo244)

19

Beck just keeps giving.

Posted by: beach at January 21, 2013 05:19 PM (LpQbZ)

20 Are they also going to ban lathes, chisels, hammers, band saws, drills, routers, sandpaper and having woodworking skills?

Posted by: Dang at January 21, 2013 05:20 PM (R18D0)

21
Jut a bit pricy at $30k still, even withthe demand for magsat ahigh right now. I wonder what production rates are, it would be feasable if I could turn out enough of them to manage a reasonable profit. Something on the order of 1 to 2 thousand a day.

/crud, there I go thinking like a capitalist again...

Posted by: Gmac - Waiting for the revolution at January 21, 2013 05:20 PM (IanLz)

22 How can a barrel capable of withstanding this stress be manufactured in this fashion???? It seems a long way off to me.

If you want to freak a Congress-thing out, you just have to be able to print out pistol grips in a scary color.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 05:20 PM (FcR7P)

23
10I am no metallurgist, nor a machinist, but I believe my 45ACP develops somewhere between 40-50,000 PSI in the chamber upon firing a round.





Not hardly. Maybe 15,000.

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:20 PM (OlN4e)

24 >>>An entrepreneur could make an 'undetectable' fortune supplying the
criminal market with computer generated, untraceable guns. Go Galt!


They can't even figure out how to master the art of printing US greenbacks that are perfect and untraceable. That I know of.

I just don't see this coming to fruition with a gun that can fire more than one round.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 21, 2013 05:21 PM (4Mv1T)

25 Are they also going to ban lathes, chisels, hammers, band saws, drills, routers, sandpaper and having woodworking skills?

No, you'll just have to be on the approved list of people who need to know that stuff.

Posted by: Union Woodworkers at January 21, 2013 05:21 PM (o1kXv)

26 A bigger worry is the ability to use these machines to produce other sorts of weapons, such as advanced rockets, missles, IEDs, etc.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 21, 2013 05:22 PM (o1kXv)

27 In metal yes in plastic printing no.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/tls/3547752590.html


$500 for that?! Man, that's a steal for a starter machine.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 05:23 PM (FcR7P)

28

give one to Prince Harry Homo and see if he can singehandedly kill some more of these generic insurgents

Posted by: soothsayer at January 21, 2013 05:23 PM (3Aqe5)

29 This is the problem with politicians who have never created anything in their lives, - including wealth. Legislation is always the answer.

Posted by: Fritz at January 21, 2013 05:23 PM (w3+gB)

30 The Diamond Age is nearly upon us.

How long before my house is hooked up to a Feed of raw elements to make whatever disposable and fully recyclable widget my heart desires?

Posted by: MostlyRight at January 21, 2013 05:23 PM (w9AQ4)

31 Are they also going to ban lathes, chisels, hammers, band saws, drills, routers, sandpaper and having woodworking skills?
Posted by: Dang at January 21, 2013 05:20 PM (R18D0)



Or, go all ME and ban hands.

Posted by: beach at January 21, 2013 05:24 PM (LpQbZ)

32 >>>Not hardly. Maybe 15,000.

Posted by: maddogg


Just binged it, so the NRA instructor who said 40-5000PSI this weekend was wrong. I'll concede that, or I heard him wrong.

But even at 15,000PSI. Printing? Please.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 21, 2013 05:25 PM (4Mv1T)

33 Generally, the thickness of the barrel is determined by two factors, the stregnth of the steel and the hoop stress. Also cartridge base diameter.The highest pressures you will find in a commercial firearm will approach 62000 psi at the ragged edge. You can go higher but you need thicker steel at the breech than the standard 1.2" diameter. Remember, you have to turn and thread the barrel shank and leave a shoulder to seat against the receiver, so most barrel shanks are 1" to 1 1/16".

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:26 PM (OlN4e)

34

great post, btw

Posted by: beach at January 21, 2013 05:26 PM (LpQbZ)

35 You want to see the price of these printers drop like a stone?

release 3-D plans for Welker's wife.

Posted by: wiserbud at January 21, 2013 05:26 PM (gCa4h)

36 When will this day of infamy ever end. Hard to even blog on days such as this

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 21, 2013 05:26 PM (jE38p)

37 eh, if I'm trying to perfect a weapon and brand new technology, I probably wouldn't post videos on youtube about it.

Yeah, he is such a douche that you wonder if his goal is to get them banned.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 05:27 PM (FcR7P)

38 A bigger worry is the ability to use these machines to produce other sorts of weapons, such as advanced rockets, missles, IEDs, etc.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 21, 2013 05:22 PM (o1kXv)


---------------------------------------------


I would not unlikely find that so unlikeable.

Posted by: Soona at January 21, 2013 05:27 PM (hBvAX)

39
"How long before my house is hooked up to a Feed of raw elements to make whatever disposable and fully recyclable widget my heart desires?"

Including laser and particle weapons that would take some of the sting out of my inability to print a rifled barrel for a firearm? Shiny!

Posted by: Jaws at January 21, 2013 05:27 PM (4I3Uo)

40 $500 for that?! Man, that's a steal for a starter machine.>>

I started looking up CNCs this morning and found them to be a lot more reasonably priced than I thought they would be. Though the $500 for that one seems like a mistake.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 05:28 PM (qo244)

41

and, I like the Founders

*pat on head

Posted by: beach at January 21, 2013 05:28 PM (LpQbZ)

42 >>>But even at 15,000PSI. Printing? Please.

Yeah, um, if I gave the impression that 3D printed barrels could be used any time soon, I didn't mean to. That was more my composite and ceramic point. And no, not a .45. .22lr? Not that far off, but there are obviously some major hurdles that still need to be overcome.

Posted by: JohnE. at January 21, 2013 05:29 PM (nRTou)

43
Has anyone come across something inexpensive that can produce parts with decent resolution? (Say, with steps smaller than 0.005 inches)?

Yup. Some guy at MIT (where GD #2 attends) is working on high resolution metal printers for the aerospace industry. He's talking resolutions in the tenths. That means no burrs, no secondary operations for finish, no grinding, pretty much taking a fully finished part from the machine.

Moron Machining and Manufacturing, anyone? I need a day job, I know 3-D modeling, am about thisclose to a CompSci degree, and can get us up and running quickly...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 21, 2013 05:30 PM (yiIja)

44 How far off are we from being able to 3D-print a flesh-light?

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 21, 2013 05:30 PM (UypUQ)

45 Generally, the thickness of the barrel is determined by two factors, the stregnth of the steel and the hoop stress. Also cartridge base diameter.The highest pressures you will find in a commercial firearm will approach 62000 psi at the ragged edge. You can go higher but you need thicker steel at the breech than the standard 1.2" diameter. Remember, you have to turn and thread the barrel shank and leave a shoulder to seat against the receiver, so most barrel shanks are 1" to 1 1/16".
Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:26 PM (OlN4e)


------------------------------------------------


During WWII the Filipino civilians used lengths of common metal pipe of different diameters to make very effective shotguns. Where there's a will, there's a way. Any you don't have to be a mathematical or gunsmithing genius to do it.

Posted by: Soona at January 21, 2013 05:31 PM (hBvAX)

46 May I just say here, "False dichotomy." Special plasticizer print machines should not even be an issue. In my lower-class neighborhood alone, there were three guys who built race cars (sprints and midgets, sonny, not so-called "stock cars" then called "jalopy racers"), two who built cabin cruisers (yes, one in the basement), and one who built his own airplane. And, yes, a gunsmith, who made actions and barrels. Here's a tip, Homer: metal guns work just fine, and you don't need to own a factory to work metal.

Being that there are places paying to have functional Bridgeport machines hauled away right now today, I'm going with nutless-gutless generation of nerds who can't have machine oil under their fingernails, and won't do anything unless it disguises itself as a computer game. CNC! CNC! Futurepundits want everything to come out of the coffee-cup holder on the side of the laptop.

Posted by: comatus at January 21, 2013 05:31 PM (qaVK+)

47 20 Dang,

You really need to ask?

England is trying to undo the bronze age....

hell arguably the stone age WRT weaponry.

"no knives"

um "okay"?


Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 05:31 PM (LRFds)

48

Popular Mechanics vs Mechanics Illustrated?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 21, 2013 05:32 PM (LPRBM)

49 Congressman Israel is an authoritarian rather than authoritative, but an ass regardless.

I do have to question the current focus on the 3D printer technology-- it's clearly an interesting development, but were I going to make a gun these days, I'd be looking into more traditional metal working tools like lathes, mills, saws, etc. We can make pretty much anything firearm related already, since many established designs rely on only 19th to mid 20th century technologies. Being able as a hobbyist to use CNC to run those tools is just icing on the cake.

Still, especially if the 3D printer could output in wax for metal investment casting, or in high strength polymers for modern firearm receivers, it would be quite a leap in technology.

Posted by: leftcoast at January 21, 2013 05:32 PM (zdHe4)

50 >>>Congressman Israel is an authoritarian rather than authoritative, but an ass regardless.

Ha! Damn it.

Posted by: JohnE. at January 21, 2013 05:33 PM (nRTou)

51
Someone needs to print me some damn small pistol primers and .22LR ammo.
This panic buying is both harshing my mellow *and* crimping my style.

Posted by: Jaws at January 21, 2013 05:33 PM (4I3Uo)

52
SInce we are talking about priting an AR15 like weapon it is only fair to point out that the SAAMI chamber pressure of the NATO 5.56 is 62,000 PSI (google it).
My point is that Beck and "boy wonder" are really irresponsible in this interview by not mentioning that these "printedguns" do not include the necessary metal components like the barrel, bolt, hammers, springs ect.
The undetectable gun is still a dream, hell, just try to get through ariport security with a pocket full of ammo....good luck.

Posted by: bill at January 21, 2013 05:34 PM (f/qE7)

53 I think zip guns have been around for a while now. Since the invention of the bullet.

Posted by: polynikes at January 21, 2013 05:34 PM (m2CN7)

54
Posted by: comatus at January 21, 2013 05:31 PM (qaVK+)


The manufacturing capability of average Americans is just as important to preventing tyranny as an armed populace.

"Oh, you have a tank? Meet my homebuilt EFPs and anti-tank rockets."

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 21, 2013 05:34 PM (o1kXv)

55 JohnE. You didn't give that impression at all. I didn't mean to suggest you did. My comment was geared towards the "raging" debate over the pressures within a 45.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 21, 2013 05:34 PM (4Mv1T)

56 It was my understanding they still used steel barrels in these. An AR (.223) generates around 55,000 psi

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 21, 2013 05:34 PM (t06LC)

57 Tobacco Road,

Ah, okay. No worries.

Posted by: JohnE. at January 21, 2013 05:35 PM (nRTou)

58 During WWII the Filipino civilians used lengths of common metal pipe of different diameters to make very effective shotguns. Where there's a will, there's a way. Any you don't have to be a mathematical or gunsmithing genius to do it.Posted by: Soona at January 21, 2013 05:31 PM (hBvAX) True enough. But shotguns run around 10,000 psi. And somebody has to be the first to touch the water pipe shotgun off. Improvised arms work, but they are what they are. You have to hate the enemy bad enough to get killed killing them.

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:36 PM (OlN4e)

59 Popular Mechanics vs Mechanics Illustrated?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 21, 2013 05:32 PM (LPRBM)


As long as it's not Commie Arts.

Posted by: beach at January 21, 2013 05:36 PM (LpQbZ)

60 Why waste time trying to fabricate a high tolerance AR-15 when a tommy gun or grease gun will get the job done?

Posted by: Fritz at January 21, 2013 05:36 PM (w3+gB)

61 Though the $500 for that one seems like a mistake.

Dropped a zero? Yeah, it was too good to be true.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 05:36 PM (FcR7P)

62 I remember watching a documentary many years ago on poachers in India/SE Asia who were going after tigers.

They used a length of pipe for a barrel and melted, IIRC, tin toothpaste tubes to make projectiles.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Posted by: Andy at January 21, 2013 05:36 PM (OZPoa)

63 Bill- THAT was the point I was trying to make, albeit feebly. You are spot on.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 21, 2013 05:37 PM (4Mv1T)

64
Leftcoast, this link's for you.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Px6RSL9Ac

3-D printing can be done with either plastic or metal. As the vid shows, metal parts reqire an oven to be cured in after it's made. This is a natural result of powdered-metal tech, which is fairly old by now.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 21, 2013 05:38 PM (yiIja)

65 Its not the AR-15 that I like but the ability to make magazines. Sweet sweet magazines where art thou?

Posted by: polynikes at January 21, 2013 05:38 PM (m2CN7)

66 Ever wonder who manufactures all those man eater tigers in India? Its the clowns wounding them with fucking improvised junk powered by home made black powder.

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:38 PM (OlN4e)

67 >> Why waste time trying to fabricate a high tolerance AR-15 when a tommy gun or grease gun will get the job done?

Bingo. If I was going to fab anything, it'd be along the lines of a MAC-10.

Bend and weld a frame, mill out a big, heavy bolt and a couple of parts and rock and roll.

Posted by: Andy at January 21, 2013 05:38 PM (OZPoa)

68 Someone needs to print me some damn small pistol primers and .22LR ammo.
This panic buying is both harshing my mellow *and* crimping my style.


I do wonder how one gets into the ammo business, because there is a tidy sum of money to be made, especially with the DHS out there trying to drive the price up.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 05:39 PM (FcR7P)

69 Magazines, reliable magazines, are harder to make than the firearm itself.

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:39 PM (OlN4e)

70 Though the 3D printers will have many uses in our economy and for design advances. They will never be needed for gun manufacture. There are already 10s of millions of guns in the US and billions world wide. They will be no more effective at stopping the flow of guns than they are with cocaine or people.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 05:40 PM (qo244)

71 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 21, 2013 05:30 PM (yiIja)

I'd be willing to put some money into that. May want to drop "manufacturing" though as that's nearly as big on the prog hit-list as "arms".

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 21, 2013 05:41 PM (wbeNt)

72 Magazines, reliable magazines, are harder to make than the firearm itself.
Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:39 PM (OlN4e)

The caliber makes the difference. I find the most unreliable magazines are in the .22 caliber. Those little boogers are sensitive.

Posted by: polynikes at January 21, 2013 05:43 PM (m2CN7)

73 60 Fritz,

or a STEN or a Sterling....?

Yeah a greasegun took once the process was kinked out 23 minutes of work.

That was of course in a different era, with folks who knew how to work and an industrial base.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 05:46 PM (LRFds)

74 James Kirk taught me all I need is some bamboo, rocks, wood, and the right kinds of dirt.

Posted by: G. at January 21, 2013 05:46 PM (8ahHh)

75 And somebody has to be the first to touch the water
pipe shotgun off. Improvised arms work, but they are what they are. You
have to hate the enemy bad enough to get killed killing them.

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2013 05:36 PM (OlN4e)
That's what a vise and a long piece of string are for. Load it with an overcharge, fire a test round or two, and if it hasn't burst, it "probably" won't burst firing your standard charge.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 21, 2013 05:46 PM (673KB)

76 71 Plli,

make it "Moron Arts and crafts"


Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 05:46 PM (LRFds)

77 67 Andy,

Yeah the .45 is subsonic meaning if it came to that it is REALLY easy to suppress....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 05:47 PM (LRFds)

78
"I do wonder how one gets into the ammo business, because there is a tidy sum of money to be made, especially with the DHS out there trying to drive the price up."

Sure, TFG and DHS are driving the price up. But OSHA, EPA, ATF, IRS, and myriad other alphabet agencies are chomped onto your neck like a vampire at the same time.

Posted by: Jaws at January 21, 2013 05:49 PM (4I3Uo)

79
I'd be willing to put some money into that. May want to drop "manufacturing" though as that's nearly as big on the prog hit-list as "arms".

OK, that's two of the Horde, sven is the other one.

Various names have been bandied about by teh daywalkers. Moron Arms was mine, Moron Machining and Moron Machining and Manufacturing were also suggested. We would need a low profile, so something like Mike's Burgers would be good.

Buzzsaw saw an ad for a turnkey machine shop this AM for $50K. It included 3 CNC machines and a few other goodies. That's not a bad price. We could start with that and work our way up to a metal printer or three.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 21, 2013 05:49 PM (yiIja)

80 Guns used to collect guns and ammo from your enemy do not need to be fancy or pretty. They only need bang that travels away from you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 05:50 PM (qo244)

81 The other thing to think about is, it's not either/or on 3D printing vs. CNC mills and lathes.

Use each for the parts where they make the most sense.

Posted by: Andy at January 21, 2013 05:51 PM (OZPoa)

82 Will we have a Diamond Age with a Feed? With skull-guns? Not with the ninnies we have now. Expect ARM and stasis. Just hope no Kzinti find us.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 21, 2013 05:56 PM (MoP0k)

83 >> Yeah the .45 is subsonic meaning if it came to that it is REALLY easy to suppress....

Back in the 80s, we had a gun store and a Class III dealer's license to go along with it.

We had a couple of suppressed MACs, a .45 and a 9, both with the old Sionics cans with the neoprene end wipes.

About the only thing you could hear with the .45 when it had a fresh wipe was the sound of the bolt chugging back and forth. The 9 with subsonic ammo wasn't much worse.

It's an amazingly simple machine.

Posted by: Andy at January 21, 2013 05:57 PM (OZPoa)

84 Why waste time trying to fabricate a high tolerance AR-15 when a tommy gun or grease gun will get the job done?

---------------------------------------


This is the kind of thinking we should be doing if the situation would ever arise. The simpler the better. It's why the AK47 is such a popular weapon. Easy to make and easy to maintain. Same goes for the old grease gun. Such a simple devastating weapon.

I carried an AR for many years and never really liked it. The M14 was much simpler and easier to maintain also. Same can be said of the mini-14. And both could be readily made much easier than the AR's.

Posted by: Soona at January 21, 2013 05:58 PM (hBvAX)

85 So I wonder what the response would be from the left if somebody 3D-printed a set of abortion tools?
Cheers & celebration, probably.

Posted by: Jack at January 21, 2013 05:59 PM (zKrpP)

86 What about Hobo Arms? Flop house in the front, manufactory in the back.

Posted by: Fritz at January 21, 2013 06:02 PM (w3+gB)

87 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 21, 2013 05:49 PM (yiIja)

I'd certainly suggest a name that doesn't trigger progs alarm while going through the yellow pages, which "arms" certainly would and "manufacturing" easily could. Of course "machining" may as well, although it seems less likely.

I have some money from John's life insurance. As an investment it was meant to keep me for the rest of my life with some left over for the kids but there's no way on earth that's going to happen so I'd rather invest it in the Horde than have TFG get it.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 21, 2013 06:03 PM (wbeNt)

88 Use each for the parts where they make the most sense. >>

It would take more capital but if I can make a plastic lower that can last 80 rnds I could make a million powder metal lowers that would as 80% or more than what is being produced now.

I wonder if two "unaffiliated" shops could make powdered metal lower 1/2s that matched. The customer would glue/screw them to together and have a better end result than the plastic ones.

Powdered metal is used in high volume precision parts to make them cheap. Lots of gears and other engine parts.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 06:03 PM (qo244)

89 83 Andy,

it comes to that I may well try to make a deLisle....

they are a whisper

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 06:04 PM (LRFds)

90 87 Polli,

be careful with it but "yeah" basically they are debauching the currency so fast that people with old-fashioned savings are losing purchasing power...

I may invest in a pizza joint.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 06:05 PM (LRFds)

91
"We had a couple of suppressed MACs, a .45 and a 9, both with the old Sionics cans with the neoprene end wipes."

Makes me wonder when someone (probably a Euro given the laws) is going to publish open code for a 3D printed can.

*That* will stir up some shit given the Left's irrational fear of supressors.

Posted by: Jaws at January 21, 2013 06:06 PM (4I3Uo)

92 Various names have been bandied about by teh daywalkers.

Moron Munitions.

Where's this shop at? 50k with 3 cnc's sounds decent, depending on the machines.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 06:06 PM (FcR7P)

93 84 Soona,

simple blowback is awesome, issue them with a bore snake, 3 clips, and a smile if it ever comes to that.

One of the lessons of WW2 is mass produced SMGs while far more inefficient for a trained military are a very valid solution for a conscript one.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 06:07 PM (LRFds)

94 I just laugh everytime I see the hand-wringing over "3D printers being able to manufacture guns at home". Why? I think of Hank Johnson and his very serious testimony about the addition ofadditional troops to Guam might cause the island to capsize. Wanna bet there are a bunch of additional no-nothings in Congress who think 3D printing is just like a paper printer, or even can make guns out of paper? A confidential questionnaire would probably find a lot of Hank Johnsons in Congress on this subject. Just saying, I'm proud to have such brain power representing me.

Posted by: tustintom at January 21, 2013 06:07 PM (WTABt)

95 91 Jaws,

yeah and a call from Ney York asshole to ban brillo pads probably....

how many people know you need washers, steel wool, and lubricant?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 06:08 PM (LRFds)

96 94 tustintom,

hey now that is the party of "science" you're discussing....

"our flag on mars"-sheila jackson lee

Posted by: sven10077 at January 21, 2013 06:09 PM (LRFds)

97 Various names have been bandied about>>
My vote is for:
Spurwing Plover Enterprises

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 06:11 PM (qo244)

98 I'd like to see some M1 Carbine mags.
I'm downloading these now, because you know some asshat will make them illegal. But I know I'll have a 3d printer soonish.

Posted by: Iblis at January 21, 2013 06:12 PM (z3fQF)

99 Don't forget to ban 1" PVC, epoxy, andmachine nuts too too....it's for the children.

Posted by: Jaws at January 21, 2013 06:12 PM (4I3Uo)

100 Where's this shop at? 50k with 3 cnc's sounds decent, depending on the machines.>>

Here
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/bfs/3543312945.html

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 06:14 PM (qo244)

101 You do realize this makes ALL gun legislation pointless. You will be able to produce full auto and select fire parts just as easily.

Which is fine by me. Gun laws are not doing anything to stop criminals from having guns. I do feel sorry for the inner cities where people refuse to testify against the criminals killing kids.

Posted by: smileynh at January 21, 2013 06:16 PM (hlZx/)

102 If they're using a printer to make gun parts, isn't this a First Amendment issue?

Posted by: Max Entropy at January 21, 2013 06:22 PM (NwTXA)

103 91 Jaws
You might check the forums on this link out. There are people who post designs and have built the suppressors from them. You still need the Tax stamp to have them in your possession legally, but the designs are already out there and some apparently work as well as or better than the store bought variety.


http://tinyurl.com/ajtdx75

Posted by: BoGart at January 21, 2013 06:23 PM (Ugngr)

104 When I was making metal parts in a previous life, We worked a part in wax or plastic and built plaster molds to pour the metal parts from using a centripetal force caster. Why wouldn't this work for 3D printed parts. Print the design in something you could melt, pour a mold compound (plaster etc.) around it and then cast it in whatever metal you wanted. Still would need to be a little creative with the barrel and rifling etc.

Posted by: BoGart at January 21, 2013 06:26 PM (Ugngr)

105 Why wouldn't this work for 3D printed parts. Print the design in something you could melt,

I think I'd 3-d print the mold which makes the thing you can melt, which you put the plaster around.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2013 06:32 PM (FcR7P)

106 Moron Machining was mine. I don't get the alarm over "Moron Machining and Manufacturing"? MMM?

Posted by: EC at January 21, 2013 06:47 PM (doBIb)

107 Those printed mags look a lot like the Lancer Warfighter mags.

Posted by: EC at January 21, 2013 06:54 PM (doBIb)

108 Lathes should all be registered, as well as drill presses. And spot welders? Tools of the devil. That thing that bends sheet metal? Totally wrong. And forges. Anvils too, and hammers.

Good god, you vicious wing nuts, with the equipment in a 1970's junior high metal shop you could actually make an M3 Grease Gun!

Where will the horror stop? I say again, where will the horror stop?

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 21, 2013 06:56 PM (gmoEG)

109 Give 'em up, Americans.....we've come for your bench vises.

Posted by: Fed Bench Vise Enforcer at January 21, 2013 06:56 PM (HtUkt)

110
This could get interesting. Here's the wifeof Wes Welker of the Pariots:



“Proud of my husband and the Pats. By the way, if anyone is bored, please go to Ray Lewis’ Wikipedia page. 6 kids 4 wives. Acquitted for murder. Paid a family off. Yay! What a hall of fame player! A true role model!,


"...the former Miss Hooters wrote on her Facebook page following the Patriots’ 28-13 loss to Baltimore..."

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 21, 2013 07:02 PM (1Y+hH)

111 Anna Burns is from NC. She sounds like Gisele Bundchen humiliating her husband a second time after they lost.

Posted by: EC at January 21, 2013 07:06 PM (doBIb)

112 Where will the horror stop? I say again, where will the horror stop?
Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 21, 2013 06:56 PM (gmoEG)
I just got my new book on how to build a charcoal forge in my garage. Yeah, try to control that.

Posted by: Invictus at January 21, 2013 07:08 PM (OQpzc)

113 Posted by: EC at January 21, 2013 06:47 PM (doBIb)

Manufacturing sounds "industrial" and G-d know how much the dim bulbs in this administration *love* shutting down anything that sounds like it would produce unpleasant sights,sounds, smells, or those horrid things called "jobs". Most progs don't realize that machinists make good money so it wouldn't come across as threatening their monopoly on provision in the same way. On the other hand, manufacturing will immediately bring to their minds images of pollution belching factories and they'll feel completely virtuous ordering it shut down without checking to see if it's true.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 21, 2013 07:11 PM (wbeNt)

114 Okay I thought that was pretty dramatic, he had a lower ar-15 with a mag!

Posted by: lions at January 21, 2013 07:12 PM (BMoCk)

115 Pry my lathe out of my cold dead hands . . .

Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at January 21, 2013 07:14 PM (NmGvH)

116 Wait, I thought the libtards were all about supporting manufacturing. These are US manufacturing companies and jobs too! The only thing they would have reason to hate is if our Moron Machining was non union labour. Of course, our company would be a different kind private "union".

We get paid in Val U Rite and porn.

Posted by: EC at January 21, 2013 07:15 PM (doBIb)

117 The lower problem is solvable, but requires patent infringement.

Cavalry Arms made working plastic lowers by combining the lower with the butt-stock and pistol-grip as a single plastic unit ( actually two halves, a right and left side, friction welded together ).

Posted by: Kristophr at January 21, 2013 07:16 PM (wYVte)

118 Pry my lathe out of my cold dead hands . . .
Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at January 21, 2013 07:14 PM (NmGvH)

That is the only thing I dont have, but my neighbor does, and he'l taste like pork and won't need it.

Posted by: Invictus at January 21, 2013 07:19 PM (OQpzc)

119 What about machining one solid part as the upper like what LMT does?

Posted by: EC at January 21, 2013 07:24 PM (doBIb)

120 3D metal printing is already available -- and not by a CNC machine.

http://tinyurl.com/y9qk9bk

http://tinyurl.com/ajhkqda
http://tinyurl.com/av4ybsu
http://tinyurl.com/aglz7oj

The most common are Additive Manufacturers such as this:
http://tinyurl.com/bqhdhrk

It will just be a matter of time before you could print a gun -- a metal one.

Posted by: exsanguine at January 21, 2013 07:41 PM (O/2PH)

121 104
When I was making metal parts in a previous life, We worked a part in
wax or plastic and built plaster molds to pour the metal parts from
using a centripetal force caster. Why wouldn't this work for 3D printed
parts. Print the design in something you could melt, pour a mold
compound (plaster etc.) around it and then cast it in whatever metal you
wanted. Still would need to be a little creative with the barrel and
rifling etc.


Posted by: BoGart at January 21, 2013 06:26 PM (Ugngr)

There are machines that can print the sand molds you would use for casting your parts too.

Posted by: exsanguine at January 21, 2013 07:43 PM (O/2PH)

122 Oh, sand molding - my junior high had those also - back in the 1970's.

Now, all of these smugglers, I just know they would balk from smuggling guns and gun parts.

Really.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 21, 2013 07:48 PM (gmoEG)

123 Guns, schmuns. I want a suit of powered body armor.

"Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a bunch of scraps!"

Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at January 21, 2013 08:14 PM (rKvZm)

124 I think Continuum is filmed in Vancouver, so it'll suffer from Canadian dystopia.

Posted by: Invictus at January 21, 2013 08:17 PM (OQpzc)

125 Eh, Canadian Dystopia is just regular intellectual dystopia with a Maple Leaf lapel pin. The Canadians I know aren't that way at all - cars, race cars, fishing, drinking, church - you know, a bunch of fly-over people.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 21, 2013 08:21 PM (gmoEG)

126 Luddites should be easy to, shall we say, overcome.

Posted by: EROWMER at January 21, 2013 08:22 PM (kxlCQ)

127 Over the years I have picked up some metal working stuff one of these

http://tinyurl.com/a8p47r2 (closest pic I could find mines newer from the 80s)

and one of these with all the copes, drags, tampers etc

http://www.soe.morgan.edu/~mahmud/iegr363/Pics/furnace.jpg

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 21, 2013 08:28 PM (qo244)

128 While I'm all for information sharing, I would warn readers that posting manufacturing/production information related to U.S. Munitions List (USML) items may be considered an export under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) depending on the level of detail shared.

Posted by: Mauser757 at January 21, 2013 08:37 PM (mfWu+)

129 Mauser757: The SCOTUS has held that ITAR is not allowed to infringe on the first amendment. Amendments take precedence over Article items like the treaty provision.

An eff.org member deliberately walked through customs with the RSA encryption algorithm printed on a t-shirt, and in the pages of a loose-leaf book in order to force the issue to the Supreme Court.

Posted by: Kristophr at January 21, 2013 11:29 PM (wYVte)

130 What was the issue about manufacturing? An individual can manufacture a non-NFA weapon so long as it is not entered into interstate commerce. Did he first attempt to manufacture an NFA firearm? What is this "non-detectable" firearm? The barrel and chamber must at this point be still of sufficient steel to contain the explosion of the gunpowder in the cartridge.

Posted by: Federale at January 22, 2013 12:40 PM (aO1W9)

131 Well it sure is refreshing to see a more nuanced interpretation of what Wilson is doing rather than the freakout BS from John Wiggs at TechCrunch.

And now that 40-round AK mags are in the picture it looks like everything is uphill from here.

Posted by: RJ Miller at January 23, 2013 09:06 AM (DBGTN)

132 My wife's great-grandfather ran a secret printing press in his basement, agitating against Czar Nicholas II. This is exactly the same phenomenon. Material goods have been turned into "ideas" by this technology, and as Alexander Dubcek put it, "you cannot suppress an idea."

Posted by: Michael Pelletier at January 24, 2013 03:05 PM (3hezO)






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