Shocker: Media/Liberal Internationalist Conventional Wisdom Wrong on Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood

It's a day of shocks. Again, I mean.

Via @benk84: the same people who claim that Christians are plotting a "Quiverfull" military takeover of the United States also claimed that the Muslim Brotherhood was a moderate group which was "mostly secular" in outlook.

The prognosis is exceedingly grim. Two years after the ouster of long-serving strongman Hosni Mubarak, Egypt is in the throes of a full-blown economic crisis. Government reserves have dropped by more than half, plummeting from $36 billion in 2011 to just $15 billion today. That’s enough to cover just three months of imports of vital commodities such as food and petroleum. GDP growth has slowed to under 2 percent, and the country’s national currency, the Egyptian Pound, is in freefall. At the same time, unemployment has surged, now estimated at nearly 13 percent and rising...

These statistics are all the more tragic because they could have been avoided. The February 2011 ouster of Mubarak was followed by a pronounced fiscal downturn, leading many to conclude that the country’s new, Muslim Brotherhood-dominated government—for all of its bluster to the contrary—wouldn’t impose radical changes on the country’s political direction. Instead, conventional wisdom held that the new powers-that-be in Cairo would, for both economic and political reasons, opt for a process of “creeping Islamization”—a slow, gradual changeover of the country’s civilian bureaucracy and legislature which wouldn’t rile international markets or spook jittery investors.

The conventional wisdom turned out to be wrong. In recent months, the Brotherhood has thrown caution to the wind and set about remaking the Egyptian state in its own image with a speed and ferocity that has surprised most onlookers.

Even though they got this one (and the last one, and the one before that) wildly wrong, they'll be very arrogant and demanding that you trust them on the next one.

The central gravamen of the leftist worldview on foreign policy is that the right spends far too much time "hating" and "fearing" external enemies, imagining those external enemies to be very different from themselves, and thus alien and threatening.

To combat this supposed failing, leftist worldview pushes the idea that those in other countries are "really no different from ourselves," and they base their prognoses on this idea. The idiots at Davos imagine that the Muslim Brotherhood types might talk tough, but deep down, in their truest heart, they'd... all rather be at Davos, too. They too would like to sip champers and chomp on shrimp.

They then peacock around, showing off their Morally Superior feathers, noting how -- unlike those Xtianists in the US -- they don't "hate" and "fear" what they don't understand.

Now, simultaneous with pushing the idea that the Muslim Brotherhood is "just like us" and comprised of Davos-loving Men of the Enlightenment, they push the idea that the Christian right in the US is in fact to be be both feared and hated -- the Muslim Brotherhood would never, ever impose a radical new social order on Egypt (even though they've proclaimed their desire to do so for years), but Focus on the Family, on the other hand, does indeed plot just such a takeover of the US.

But what -- I thought we weren't supposed to "hate" and "fear" what we don't understand? I thought it was base to feel threatened by people and think of them as strange and alien simply because they're not similar to you culturally and religiously?

Shut up, they explained.

Leftism isn't really a worldview which even attempts an evenhanded and universal application to similar situations. It's merely a goal, an agenda, and any means, including blatant dishonesty and laughable hypocrisy and inconsistency, are fair means for pursuing its ultimate end.

Supposedly they are high-minded in refusing to accept that we might have any external enemies. They might seem more high-minded if they weren't constantly finding internal enemies which they would have us fear and despise.

Posted by: Ace at 01:58 PM



Comments

1 The idiots at Davos imagine that the Muslim Brotherhood types might talk tough, but deep down, in their truest heart, they'd... all rather be at Davos, too. They too would like to sip champers and chomp on shrimp.


Or get some delicious Juice.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong at January 18, 2013 02:03 PM (Lxw+T)

2 What happened, did Newsweek go bankrupt again

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 02:03 PM (7PjX7)

3 Yeah it is a terrible letdown that the media who tried to blame Mitt Romney for murdering Amb Stevens doesn't understand what the hell our aiding the Muslim Brotherhood really means....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:03 PM (LRFds)

4 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:03 PM (/eBe8)

5 Even though they got this one (and the last one, and the one before
that) wildly wrong, they'll be very arrogant and demanding that you
trust them on the next one.

Can I just call shenanigans on everything they say, no matter how many times they say it?

Posted by: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain at January 18, 2013 02:04 PM (bj+Nc)

6 leftist worldview pushes the idea that those in other countries are "really no different from ourselves,"

Which is actual racism...parroting your beliefs about what "those people" want/should want/are like instead of actually listening to what they say they want.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 02:04 PM (ZKzrr)

7 1 Lance Armstrong,

Or that if America splits both halves will be as deferential as the whole was....

uh yeah "no"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:04 PM (LRFds)

8 We can always hope for a brutal coup

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 02:04 PM (7PjX7)

9 The conventional wisdom turned out to be wrong. In recent months, the Brotherhood has thrown caution to the wind and set about remaking the Egyptian state in its own image with a speed and ferocity that has surprised most onlookers.

*struck by feather, collapses*

Posted by: George Orwell what knows halal rom kosher at January 18, 2013 02:05 PM (Lxw+T)

10 I am sure they will come around once we release the Blind Sheikh.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2013 02:05 PM (ASGBb)

11 This is my shocked...

Wait, no. That's my "well duh" face.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:05 PM (/eBe8)

12 Heck of a job, Hildebeast.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:06 PM (UOM48)

13 I think this post needs some of Andy Levy's "Blame the Jews" pamphlets.

Posted by: Lauren at January 18, 2013 02:06 PM (tyue4)

14 the only thing this administration has been right on is that the GOP will not stand up to them

Posted by: phoenixgirl at January 18, 2013 02:06 PM (GVxQo)

15 12
Heck of a job, Hildebeast.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:06 PM (UOM4

Best Secretary of State Evaaah...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (9+ccr)

16 Ace: "...pushing the idea that the Muslim Brotherhood is "just like us""

Yeah, there is actually some truth to that...they're both fascists.

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (fH4X9)

17 Smart Diplomacy!!!

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (LCFed)

18 But Romney couldn't (wouldn't) bring up TFG's many foreign policy failures during the foreign policy debate.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (/eBe8)

19 Or that if America splits both halves will be as deferential as the whole was....

---------------------

Yeah I have to take exception with that.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (dDD3H)

20 Just wait till I'm Queen.

Posted by: Hillary! at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (UOM48)

21 "they'll be very arrogant and demanding that you trust them on the next one."

The next one will be either Syria or Iran.

Posted by: blindside at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (x7g7t)

22 All reports must service the regime's narrative. All facts that do not support the regime's narrative will not be reported, and do not exist.

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (Dnbau)

23 Shut up, they explained.


That's going to be a pretty standard explanation over the next four years.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (Lxw+T)

24 Ok where'd the Noosweek post go?

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (LCFed)

25 CEO turnaround specialist with clear-eyed view of the world, turns out to be right about everything.

That bullet missed us by this much.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (C1cTe)

26

West Point center cites dangers of ‘far right’ in U.S.




Now we are military threats. For believing in such dangerous notions as " strong convictions regarding the federal government,
believing it to be corrupt and tyrannical, with a natural tendency to
intrude on individuals’ civil and constitutional rights. Finally, they
support civil activism, individual freedoms, and self government."


God forbid Americans believe in individual freedoms!

Posted by: imp at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (UaxA0)

27 The idiots at Davos imagine that the Muslim Brotherhood types might talk tough, but deep down, in their truest heart, they'd... all rather be at Davos, too. They too would like to sip champers kill a jew or two and chomp on shrimp kick a puppy.

FIFY.

Posted by: Heralder at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (+xmn4)

28 Just wait till I'm Queen. Posted by: Hillary! at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (UOM4

alexthechick is in line first.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (sbV1u)

29 Nom. Nom. Nom. *burp*

Posted by: The AoS Memory Hole at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (vbh31)

30 >>They might seem more high-minded if they weren't constantly finding internal enemies which they would have us fear and despise.


Ace you have put your finger on the single most painful and potentially devastating irony in American History.

......hat tip to the HUAC

Posted by: ontherocks at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (aZ6ew)

31 Wait wait wait. I thought these media people were the ones telling us that the Muzzie Bro'hood was a "largely secular" organization. Why, then, would "conventional wisdom" have suggested that a largely secular organization would, "opt for a process of “creeping Islamization” —a slow, gradual changeover of the country’s civilian bureaucracy and legislature..." Islamization is, by its very nature, a theocratic movement; it's not secular.

So, WTF, MFM? Are you trying to say they were Islamists THE WHOLE TIME?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (4df7R)

32

OT: BREAKING

RAY NAGIN INDICTED ON 23 COUNTS OF FRAUD.

Party affiliation is not yet known.


Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (XkWWK)

33
"gravamen"

"...the issue upon which a particular controversy turns."

That's why I hang around people who use great words. I'm gonna use this little fucker sometime this weekend as if I've been saying it for years.

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (ZDsRL)

34 :::10 I am sure they will come around once we release the Blind Sheikh.
Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2013 02:05 PM (ASGBb):::

Only if he's released in a 750KT air burst of American Sunshine 1000 meters above Cairo.

Which I would be okay with.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (CmheR)

35
To combat this supposed failing, leftist worldview pushes the idea that those
in other countries are "really no different from ourselves," and they base their
prognoses on this idea. The idiots at Davos imagine that the Muslim Brotherhood
types might talk tough, but deep down, in their truest heart, they'd... all
rather be at Davos, too. They too would like to sip champers and chomp on
shrimp.


Some right wingers and some libertarians do this too. The neocons and the Bush doctrine stipulate that the entire world is full of capitalists yearning to be free, and but for 1 migit north Korean they would be.

Lots of people think all you have to do is give people an ipod and MTV and it's like the borg - resistance is futile, they will be assimilated.

Posted by: Entropy at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (TULs6)

36 21 Federal Corruption Charges.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (XkWWK)

37 West Point center cites dangers of ‘far right’ in U.S.

I've been seeing that here all day.

Please tell me it's satire.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (/eBe8)

38 18 AllenG,

I'm willing to take Trap or Targ or whatever the hell his Man Child's name is word for it and accept his dad didn't want the job.

"Okay"

I got conned out of ~6500 last cycle.

It will never happen again

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (LRFds)

39 24 Ok where'd the Noosweek post go?
Posted by: Captain Hate at January 18, 2013 02:08 PM (LCFed)
-----
Jooooz took it !!

Posted by: luaP noR at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (0K4Xj)

40 Party affiliation is not yet known. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 18, 2013 02:09 PM (XkWWK)

The Chocolate Party

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (sbV1u)

41 "The central gravamen of the leftist worldview on foreign policy is that the right spends far too much time "hating" and "fearing" external enemies, imagining those external enemies to be very different from themselves, and thus alien and threatening."

I love the word "gravamen". My late Stepfather was a county judge and would use it every so often in non-legal contexts, so I guess I heardit thrownaround the house more than most.

To the point, yes. They got it wrong on Egypt. They got it wrong on the Muslim Brotherhood. They got it wrong on Benghazi and Mali and just about everywhere else, and they're going to keep getting it wrong. If your core bedrock ideas about fundamentals such as the nature ofexistence and the purpose of humanity are incorrect, then everything that follows will be tainted by that invalidity.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (vtiE6)

42 I've been seeing that here all day.

Please tell me it's satire.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013

Nope.. .

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (9+ccr)

43 32

OT: BREAKING

RAY NAGIN INDICTED ON 23 COUNTS OF FRAUD.

Party affiliation is not yet known.

__-----
bwhahaha nice!

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:11 PM (dDD3H)

44 19 Gigg,

Well the middle east gets to sell oil with no blowback...I figure the New texas republic will too or else.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:11 PM (LRFds)

45 Please tell me it's satire. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:10 PM (/eBe

Nope. Check Drudge. Right column

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 18, 2013 02:11 PM (sbV1u)

46
1. Obastard will just give them the $60 billion he stole from the rich.

2. The left attacks internal enemies to gain power, just like the muzzie brothers.

3. Items 1 and 2 are related.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk, now without socks at January 18, 2013 02:11 PM (p/cQy)

47 My, but the Arab Spring is a short season.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:11 PM (Lxw+T)

48 See your last article.

Liberals are really just Fascists of a different stripe. That's why they react so gravely and admonish people when they're called "Fascists".

Liberals hate context almost more than they hate facts. So they'll distract, dissemble, demonize and demagogue to avoid it.

"Oh, you do know that Fascists paint a picture of Nazi's, don't you?"

"Yes, but whose talking about Nazi's?" "Can you actually define Fascist dickhead? "

Posted by: Marcus at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (GGCsk)

49 Let me guess. No mention of Nagin's party affiliation?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (UOM48)

50 LiB

Posted by: Dash Rip-Rock at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (GQ72I)

51 AllenG, here's a link to the article at the Washington Times: http://tiny.cc/ymf4qw

A West Point think tank has issued a paper warning America about “far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist” movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and self-government.”

The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right...”

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (4df7R)

52 Liberalism/leftism is a mental disorder and you have to be a sociopath to believe it.


In awesomer news, my new FR-S has arrived and I will be picking it up at the dealership in the morning!

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (1W1S7)

53 If only Allen would learn to use words like "gravamen", he could have a blog of his own.

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (ZDsRL)

54 AllenG, there is this infectious disease transmitted by 'Pub political consultants that you can't criticize Obama because he is "different", and that we have to appear nice in order to appeal to the electorate. They have charts and polls, it's sick.

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (bR2AR)

55 Hey alright!

West Point is declaring war on us again!

I said if anyone wanted it I would reoffer my counterpoint to DoD thinking beating the "TeaParty/KKK Alliance" won't be cake....

let me know

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:13 PM (LRFds)

56 Make no mistake, the left know the MB is dangerous and deadly and they plan to take care of them as soon as the real enemy is out of the way. You know, us.

Posted by: huerfano at January 18, 2013 02:13 PM (bAGA/)

57 47 george orwell,

God inverted the middle east's menstrual cycles once every 28 days it is sane.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:14 PM (LRFds)

58 Oh. FFS.

BRB. Gotta post an "I told you so" on that blog I don't have.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:14 PM (/eBe8)

59 See, West Point agrees with my nic. Because I believe in individual freedoms and small government and support the Tea Party, I'm a terrorist.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (4df7R)

60 I am sure they will come around once we release the Blind Sheikh.
--
Only if he's released in a 750KT air burst of American Sunshine 1000 meters above Cairo.


Everyone looks better with a tan.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (Lxw+T)

61 They all hope to be the "Voice of the Caliphate". Which is funny because the Caliphate has nothing useful to say.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (ndlFj)

62 Ray Nagin
His dreams of a Chocolate city came and went but being in a Chocolate Prison, will soon become a reality...

Posted by: American Dawg at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (trA4n)

63 Conservatives being a violent threat to the government fits the regime's narrative and must be repeated. Foreign policy failures and economic failures do not fit the regime's narrative and must not be reported and therefore do not exist. This game is easy

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (Dnbau)

64 49 Let me guess. No mention of Nagin's party affiliation?
Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (UOM4


Give that girl a kewpie doll!!!!!!!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (XkWWK)

65 "What I discovered is that the Modern Liberal looks back on 50,000 years, 100,000 years of human civilization, and knows only one thing for sure: that none of the ideas that mankind has come up with--none of the religions, none of the philos­ophies, none of the ideologies, none of the forms of government--have succeeded in creating a world devoid of war, poverty, crime, and injustice. So they're convinced that since all of these ideas of man have proved to be wrong, the real cause of war, poverty, crime, and injustice must be found - can only be found - in the attempt to be right.

If nobody ever thought they were right, what would we disagree about? If we didn't disagree, surely we wouldn't fight. If we didn't fight, of course we wouldn't go to war. Without war, there would be no poverty; without poverty, there would be no crime; without crime, there would be no injustice. It's a utopian vision, and all that's required to usher in this utopia is the rejection of all fact, reason, evi­dence, logic, truth, morality, and decency--all the tools that you and I use in our attempts to be better people, to make the world more right by trying to be right, by siding with right, by recognizing what is right and moving toward it." - Evan Sayet

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (KDq5l)

66
If the Left were to admit that not all cultures are the same - the cultural differences run deeper than language, clothing styles, and food - then they would have to make moral distinctions based on something more solid than individual and cultural preference. Since they cannot admit the possiblity of absolute right and wrong, they cannot judge cultures as right or wrong, so they pretend that all cultures (and all religions) amount to no more than cosmetic differences.

Posted by: Grey Fox at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (1hke+)

67 In awesomer news, my new FR-S has arrived and I will be picking it up at the dealership in the morning!
Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (1W1S7)


EEEE, fun!!

Hey, DangerGirl, whatever happened with the wacko who was threatening your workplace? Has everything cooled down?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:16 PM (4df7R)

68 A West Point think tank has issued a paper warning America about “far
right” groups such as the “anti-federalist” movement, which supports
“civil activism, individual freedoms and self-government.”


The report also draws a link between the mainstream conservative
movement and the violent “far right,” and describes liberals as “future
oriented” and conservatives as living in the past.

Posted by: That's all she wrote, folks at January 18, 2013 02:16 PM (vbh31)

69 51 MWR,

considering they are silent on OW$ I give that all the merit it deserves *flush* and DoD you better stage a Waco and make it convincing because you attack civilians in violation of Posse Comitatus just because it'll make giggles happy....

it won't end well.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:16 PM (LRFds)

70
Since I brought up release of the the Blind Sheikh...
does the guy who wipes Abu Hamza's ass have to help him achieve release, as well?

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2013 02:16 PM (RWg8f)

71 Shocker Unexpectedly : Media/Liberal Internationalist Conventional Wisdom Wrong on Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood





There we go. Fixed.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 18, 2013 02:16 PM (da5Wo)

72 Well, if the MB blows up the Egyptian economy, maybe other countries won't be so quick to buy into their bullshit.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (CIjnK)

73 53 If only Allen would learn to use words like "gravamen", he could have a blog of his own.

Not so fast. Will this be an assault blog with high-capacity threads? You need a federal license for that, Sally.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (Lxw+T)

74
I need a little help here.

How can fit "gravamen" into a conversation with the Cheese Fairy at Whole Foods?

And make it sound natural. I don't want him to think I'm just showing off my vocabulary. You know, one intellectual to another.

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (ZDsRL)

75
If your core bedrock ideas about fundamentals such as the nature ofexistence and the purpose of humanity are incorrect, then everything that follows will be tainted by that invalidity.

Principles: How do they fucking work?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (yiIja)

76 Well the middle east gets to sell oil with no blowback...I figure the New texas republic will too or else.

Last night I was explaing to someone that any contribution from the coal in WV and Kentucky would not really put a dent in the ocean of oil that TX and LA could supply, if allowed. Also the natural gas refining capabilities are pretty impressive. We have some reactors and a few little dams producing energy here in TN. Yeah would not be a walk in the park, but I really think the southeast could take care of itself.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (dDD3H)

77 also, violent conservatives helps with seducing the populace in the gun control debate. Fits the narrative 2 ways. We will hear this story over and over again

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (Dnbau)

78 I am proud of Prsedent Obama's leadership that has helped the peeple of Egypt have a better life. Bush was an idiot and the people in Egypt suffered under his warmongering policies. We commend presdent Obama and his succssess in Egypt. Yeah for presdent obama !!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Obamaboro, Vt and Proud of it !!!!!!!!!! at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (48wze)

79 Actually the MB and the Dems have one thing quite in common -- they understand that you go for the power. Screw the economy, any dangers to your country, hell any dangers to the peacefulness of the world -- just grab the power first.

I present as Exhibit I -- ObamaCare

They don't care who they have to demonize to get that power.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (cHZB7)

80
The Egyptians were on a slow path to starvation before this takeover. Now they're on a fast path. I would assume that much like the Taliban and the Iranian clerical government, the Brotherhood does not view material impoverishment of its people as any sort of a problem. In fact, since they'll control the food supply, it's a good way to consolidate power by rewarding friends, and punishing or actually extermimating the politicalopposition and unwanted minorities, a la Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

Interestingly, one of the things contributing to the food shortage there is our idiotic conversion of agood partof ourcorn cropto ethanol.It helped destabilize Mubarak's regime initially,and then explicit destablilization was made U.S./Obama/Clinton policy. A double whammy of naive leftist delusions.

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at January 18, 2013 02:18 PM (w41GQ)

81 A West Point think tank has issued a paper
warning America about “far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist”
movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and
self-government.”



The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the
U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from
the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right...”



Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (4df7R)

fgs i'm actually blown away by this. i feel numb.

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:18 PM (nqBYe)

82 62Ray Nagin
His dreams of a Chocolate city came and went but being in a Chocolate Prison, will soon become a reality...
Posted by: American Dawg at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (trA4n)


Wonderif he'll be giving rides down the Chocolate Highway in Chocolate Prison.

Posted by: Heralder at January 18, 2013 02:18 PM (+xmn4)

83 And make it sound natural. I don't want him to think I'm just showing off my vocabulary. You know, one intellectual to another.
Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:17 PM (ZDsRL)


jwest... are you asking for ways to flirt with your cheese fairy?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:18 PM (4df7R)

84 "They then peacock around, showing off their Morally Superior feathers,
noting how -- unlike those Xtianists in the US -- they don't "hate" and
"fear" what they don't understand."

It's more like they don't understand what we "hate" and "fear."

And it's not so much hate and fear as it is "despise" and "concern."

Posted by: Editor at January 18, 2013 02:19 PM (7zhdJ)

85 Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 18, 2013 02:15 PM (KDq5l)


Dead on the money.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:19 PM (Lxw+T)

86 SMART POWER!

Posted by: I HILLARY! at January 18, 2013 02:19 PM (CH40s)

87 Hey, DangerGirl, whatever happened with the wacko who was threatening your workplace? Has everything cooled down?


So far so good here. I haven't heard anything new, but we're all pretty much on extra-alert still.

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2013 02:19 PM (is2uy)

88 81 ette,

Why?

The senior leadership has been subverted by the left since the 70s to varying degrees.

Don't be afraid, they are not all powerful.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:19 PM (LRFds)

89 81
A West Point think tank has issued a paper

warning America about “far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist”

movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and

self-government.”





The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the

U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from

the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right...”




Can't wait for the new crop of young officers who'll be graduating.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:19 PM (UOM48)

90 They're setting the table for Breakfast At Tyranny's.

Posted by: That's all she wrote, folks at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (vbh31)

91 Interestingly, one of the things contributing to the food shortage there is our idiotic conversion of agood partof ourcorn cropto ethanol.It helped destabilize Mubarak's regime initially,and then explicit destablilization was made U.S./Obama/Clinton policy. A double whammy of naive leftist delusions.
Posted by: Wm T Sherman at January 18, 2013 02:18 PM (w41GQ) /i]

Who cares if a few brown people an ocean and a continent away die? ETHANOL 4EVA BABY.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (4df7R)

92 How about we offer refuge to Egypt's Coptic Christians and send our Somali Muslim refugees back in exchange?

Posted by: boniface ballers at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (l3RZ9)

93 How can fit "gravamen" into a conversation with the Cheese Fairy at Whole Foods?

I hope the Fairy is a she. Preferably with a very low cut see-through Tinkerbell dress.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (Lxw+T)

94
jwest... are you asking for ways to flirt with your cheese fairy?

Hey, I'll go pretty far to get a deal on Triple Cream Brie. I might even wear my tight jeans...

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (ZDsRL)

95 Well, we've got the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Now we'll have the Islamic Republic of Syria.

After that, likely soon after, we'll have the Islamic Republic of Syria.

Who knows, maybe Turkey will go full-on Islamic, too.

Damn good thing they don't have the work ethic and brain trust of, say, Nazi Germany circa 1937.

Or do they? Let's call Bibi and ask.

Will Zero's second term include The Second Coming of The Bomb? Anybody that thinks it cannot happen ought to read a little history. Far too many people in Obamaland think all that bad shit is over and all we have to do is be nice.

Posted by: The littl shyning man at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (PH+2B)

96 jwest... are you asking for ways to flirt with your cheese fairy?

Just say hi and maintain eye contact long enough. Eventually someone will get a bone in the ass.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (dDD3H)

97 West Point ain't what it used to be, it seems.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at January 18, 2013 02:20 PM (v07al)

98 I meant Islamic Republic of Egypt.

Posted by: The littl shyning man at January 18, 2013 02:21 PM (PH+2B)

99 Just say hi and maintain eye contact long enough. Eventually someone will get a bone in the ass.

Damn I am ashamed I wrote that actually, please detract that, my apologies.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:21 PM (dDD3H)

100 Tell tale sign that the author of a piece is an attorney.

They use the word "gravamen".


Seriously, that word is extinct outside of legal circles!!!

Posted by: Prescient11 at January 18, 2013 02:21 PM (tVTLU)

101 The report issued this week by the Combating
Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is
titled “Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent
Far-Right...”



Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (4df7R)



Do they happen to list any examples of the 'violent far-right'?

Posted by: Tami at January 18, 2013 02:22 PM (X6akg)

102 what kind of cheese fairy are we talking about here?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at January 18, 2013 02:23 PM (GVxQo)

103 89 Ms D'oh,

they won't be leading the force we have now.

The US Army will be Libya's army in about ten years.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:23 PM (LRFds)

104 Do they happen to list any examples of the 'violent far-right'?

Something about ewoks, morons and socks.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:23 PM (dDD3H)

105 The only thing these people are good at is Death. Death from Abortion, Death from diseases spread by abhorrent sexual behavior, Death from Famine caused by burning corn as ethanol, Death from Government Health care and "Death Panels" Death from military weakness, Death from promoting irresponsible lifestyle's and behavior, and Death from Gun Control.



The Democrat party is the party of Death and Slavery, and they are constantly working to expand the bloodshed and enslavement, both here and internationally.




They are the party of Death.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:24 PM (bb5+k)

106 because we want to maintain a right to defend ourselves in this crazy world? we are terrorist>
i've never been violent in my life, but because of an idea that i should be able to defend myself if possible i am presumed to be?

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:24 PM (nqBYe)

107 Damn Congress.

They voted to get us into that mess.

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:24 PM (fWAjv)

108 Haa Haa!

Posted by: Nelson at January 18, 2013 02:24 PM (dZ756)

109 Tami,

“far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist”


movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and


self-government.”





Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:24 PM (UOM48)

110 an actual lawful act of thought!

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:24 PM (nqBYe)

111 Do they happen to list any examples of the 'violent far-right'?

Posted by: Tami at January 18, 2013 02:22 PM (X6akg)

SPLC is one of their sources.

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (fWAjv)

112 101...Do they happen to list any examples of the 'violent far-right'?

I was thinking the same thing, Tami.
And I can't even recall so much as a jello-fight being attributed to the "far-right".

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (fH4X9)

113 Diogenes:

Absolutely!! The ban on DDT is a prime, prime example.

Posted by: Prescient11 at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (tVTLU)

114 106 ette,

ette serious question that will set your mind at ease and put things in perspective.

What moral construct is behind the right to self-defense?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (LRFds)

115 The Gravamen would make a good name for a band.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (yiIja)

116 because we want to maintain a right to defend ourselves in this crazy world? we are terrorist>
i've never been violent in my life, but because of an idea that i should be able to defend myself if possible i am presumed to be?

---- That's what drives me crazy. All I want is peace, and the ability to defend that fucking peace. Why does that make me an asshole, militant, or anything else.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (dDD3H)

117 111 RWC,

ah so the boy scouts, the VFW, the American legion are all in there then....

the SPLC is a commie front.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (LRFds)

118 Coumo can send all of NY's extended magazines to Egypt. They gonna need them over there.

Posted by: sTevo at January 18, 2013 02:26 PM (VMcEw)

119 SPLC is one of their sources.

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (fWAjv)


OH FFS!!!

Posted by: Tami at January 18, 2013 02:26 PM (X6akg)

120 115 The Gravamen would make a good name for a band.


I saw The Gravamen open for Joy Division in 1985.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:26 PM (Lxw+T)

121 116 gigg,

the question I asked ette is what this boils down to what is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:26 PM (LRFds)

122 see...conservative thinkers are a danger to the nation..why they shouldn't be armed...they are dangerous to the public...ignore OWS or the Washington Square wanna be bomber or any ofthe scores of Islamic terrorist attacks and attempts. Fits the narrative of the regime. This is news. MB, nothing to see here

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 02:27 PM (Dnbau)

123 What part of "muslim" didn't these idiots understand?


Meanwhile, Coptic Christians are being murdered on a scale leaning toward Rwanda, and not a peep from the media about them. Sacrificed to the idol of Mohammed, piss be upon him.

Posted by: tcn at January 18, 2013 02:27 PM (ZOUmX)

124 Gravamen--hell if I knew that word.

It seems like the latest gravamen The Left has against someone is--

"plus--they are a REPUBLICAN!"

(if I used that correctly.)

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 02:27 PM (r2PLg)

125 sven Religious moral imperatives or Constitutional moral imperatives?

sorry my mind is flopping around, i'm that shocked.

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:28 PM (nqBYe)

126 I wanted the word to be--

Grave-men.

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 02:28 PM (r2PLg)

127 Alright. Done.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:28 PM (/eBe8)

128 What is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?

Well, the idea is so basic to me I never even thought about the Moral case for it.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:29 PM (dDD3H)

129 Tami,

From the publication:

"The American far-right was for many years associated with the militant activism of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK). While the KKK and its modern white supremacist offspring are still active, in recent decades other types of ideological groups have begun to populate the American far-right universe. Among these are militias, Christian Identity groups, Skinheads and neo-Nazis..."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:29 PM (4df7R)

130 the same people who claim that Christians are plotting a "Quiverfull" military takeover of the United States


I have never actually heard of that before and I know a metric fuckton of those who would be leading such a thing were it true.


You know what? I would posit that the Horde is actually multicultural in that we are interested in and desire to know about different cultures. Thus, we actually, okay, brace yourselves for the shock, *learn actual shit* about other people and other cultures. We also, and, again, brace yourselves because this is mind bottling, believe that other cultures *actually believe the shit they claim to believe*. Thus, when certain portions of the Religion of Peace claim they want to kill us all, we do them the favor of treating them like adults who mean what they say and act in accordance with their beliefs. This is opposed to those who preach multiculturalism and tolerance but who pat on the head those who state quite plainly what their intentions are. Those poor little children don't really mean that, poor dears.

Who are the rubes again?


Turtles, man, turtles.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 18, 2013 02:29 PM (VtjlW)

131 It's merely a goal, an agenda, and any means, including blatant dishonesty and laughable hypocrisy and inconsistency, are fair means for pursuing its ultimate end.

Everyone knows they're guilty, but they won't be banned and appearing on Oprah anytime soon.

Posted by: t-bird at January 18, 2013 02:29 PM (FcR7P)

132 >The report also draws a link between the mainstream conservative

movement and the violent “far right,” and describes liberals as “future

oriented” and conservatives as living in the past.<

Yes, because the Constitution is so yesterday and destroying it is visionary or something.

West Point does realize their attendees are loped in with the "Far-Right" don't they?

Posted by: Marcus at January 18, 2013 02:30 PM (GGCsk)

133 So, again, Skinheads and Neo-Nazis, and Christian Identity Groups are more dangerous than Muslim jihadists.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:30 PM (4df7R)

134 Make no mistake, the left know the MB is dangerous and deadly and they plan to take care of them as soon as the real enemy is out of the way. You know, us.

They might want to take on the MB first. Safer that way.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:30 PM (GFM2b)

135 128
What is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?
---

In NYC, there is none. You are a dead duck there.

Posted by: sTevo at January 18, 2013 02:31 PM (VMcEw)

136 good post AllenG.
It is clear the regime's narrative is now that if you are not a "statist" in the Levin nomenclature, you are a threat to the nation

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 02:31 PM (Dnbau)

137 The left really thinks that the right is going to go with terrorism? That's pathetic, they are all students of political theory and history. When the middle class, productive citizens step out, it's not terrorism it's a revolution.

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 02:31 PM (LBUCy)

138 "Joy Division in 1985."

"Joy Division in 1985."

"Joy Division in 1985."

...

You're killin' me, man.

Posted by: oblig. is killed at January 18, 2013 02:31 PM (cePv8)

139
Well, it's been a while in coming, but it's finally here. If you believe in freedom, individuality, self-determination, the Constitution, rule of lawand capitalism, you're now an Officially Designated Enemy of the State.

FFS, I need a drink.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (yiIja)

140 What moral construct is behind the right to self-defense?


Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (LRFds)

"1736
Every act directly willed is imputable to its author:

Thus the Lord asked Eve after
the sin in the garden: "What is this that you have done?" He asked Cain the same question. The prophet Nathan questioned David
in the same way after he committed adultery with the wife of Uriah and had him
murdered.

An action can be indirectly voluntary when it results from negligence regarding
something one should have known or done: for example, an accident arising from
ignorance of traffic laws.

1737
An
effect can be tolerated without being willed by its agent; for instance, a
mother's exhaustion from tending her sick child. A bad effect is not imputable
if it was not willed either as an end or as a means of an action, e.g., a death
a person incurs in aiding someone in danger. For a bad effect to be imputable
it must be foreseeable and the agent must have the possibility of avoiding it,
as in the case of manslaughter caused by a drunken driver."
Pretty much sums it up. You are not guilty of murder in defense of innocent life--the death is an effect tolerated which was not willed. The action was defense, not murder.

Posted by: tcn at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (ZOUmX)

141
Absolutely!! The ban on DDT is a prime, prime example.

Posted by: Prescient11 at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (tVTLU)

Millions of dead from that crap. And not an easy death either. Suffering the fevers of malaria type deaths. And it's still going on.

Democrats are the party of Death.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (bb5+k)

142 The moral construct behind self-defense is that your life is yours and by extension you have a duty to maintain it the right to deny an aggressor his if need be to keep it.

Liberalism hates guns because they sincerely believe that your body is the state's and there is no right to self-defense and that the use of violence is indexed to the needs of the state and or "social justice"

It is why they have no issue on a Macro basis with HealthCare but the feel no shame fighting like hell to live despite the lack of the common man to use such benefits as ted Kennedy and Bobby Byrd got pro bono functionally.

They have plans for us, and they are not good ones.

Now take a breath and don't be afraid.

I'm ex-infantry and the US Army though formidable is not made up of supermen.

We'll be okay or we won't but the task if it comes to that is not impossible.

Ask Iraq and 'ghani and Vietnam

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (LRFds)

143 128 What is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?

I'm pretty shocked at the question, to even consider that self defense requires a moral construct gets me riled up.

I would start with at least 2 of the 10 commandments though I guess.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (dDD3H)

144
"The American far-right was for many years
associated with the militant activism of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK). While
the KKK and its modern white supremacist offspring are still active, in
recent decades other types of ideological groups have begun to populate
the American far-right universe. Among these are militias, Christian
Identity groups, Skinheads and neo-Nazis..."



Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:29 PM (4df7R)


I'm....I'm....speechless. The 'far-right' was the KKK?!!!


Congratulations liberals, your rewrite of history has even reach West Point.


Fucked we are.....

Posted by: Tami at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (X6akg)

145 >>>To combat this supposed failing, leftist worldview pushes the idea that
those in other countries are "really no different from ourselves," and
they base their prognoses on this idea. The idiots at Davos imagine
that the Muslim Brotherhood types might talk tough, but deep down, in
their truest heart, they'd... all rather be at Davos, too. They too
would like to sip champers and chomp on shrimp.

That faith of leftists is MORE rebutted by current evidence than the idea of a "young Earth"

Any historian will tell you that amongst societies at the time, Celtic, Germanic, Arabian, Perisian, Judeo, Egyptian, Slavic, Indian, Native American tribal, Mayan, Aztec, Ancient Japanese, Mongol, et AL that attempted to ponder the meaning of life, GREEK philosophy stands out as a true ANOMALY of thinking that men should be free and self governing. EVERY OTHER SOCIETY trended toward AUTHORITARIAN HIERARCHICAL COLLECTIVISM.

If Rome had not wholesale stolen Greek thought. There would be no Western Civilization.

Conservatives know, it is not the China, or Islam, or Cuba that is the "Other"

We are.

We are the "Other" we are the strange ones. And so we distrust others because we know it is our beliefs are abnormal in the world.

Our ideas of freedom are unique and strange, and never in the history of man have they been widely accepted by the world at large. That is a FACT that liberals cannot see because they have a faith that all across the world we are the same. Well if we were true, it would be us, the small minority of freedom seekers that would not exist, not the authoritarians.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (0q2P7)

146 116 because we want to maintain a right to defend ourselves in this crazy world? we are terrorist>
i've never been violent in my life, but because of an idea that i should be able to defend myself if possible i am presumed to be?

---- That's what drives me crazy. All I want is peace, and the ability to defend that fucking peace. Why does that make me an asshole, militant, or anything else.
Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (dDD3H)

______________________

I think this might be the one area where they are consistent.

I was trying to think of an argument to convince a Liberal about gun ownership....

So let's start out.

Say every individual is a country--and we asked them all to disarm and we only leave the law breakers like Al Qaeda with guns, how would that work?

It would be stupid to unilaterally disarm and to not be able to defend ourselves-- right?

That's when I realized I was stuck in the liberal illogic loop--I doubt they would see the "problem".

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (r2PLg)

147 Yes, but Al Qaeda is on the run or something.

Unfortunately, they ran into Northern Africa. Ask the French, I think they've seen them

Posted by: Marcus at January 18, 2013 02:33 PM (GGCsk)

148
Where do you suppose Ace picks up words like that?

I've gotten laid with lesser words.

There must be a special place where people go just to exchange words like gravamen.

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:33 PM (ZDsRL)

149 The Left was/is/will always be wrong about Islam. The Hell you say!

I'm gonna write a book: "The Left is Wrong" or the Alternate title: " Mushrooms over NYC"

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:33 PM (jE38p)

150 -right was for many years associated with the militant activism of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK).


ow slight re-writing of history here also.

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:33 PM (nqBYe)

151 What is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?


Self-Ownership. It is the same 1st Principle behind Private Property, too.

I belong to no one except myself. Therefore no one has the right to do anything to me without my permission. If they attempt to do something to me without my permission, I, as the owner of myself, have the right to fight back.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:33 PM (/eBe8)

152 Yes, but Al Qaeda is on the run or something.

Unfortunately, they ran into Northern Africa. Ask the French, I think they've seen them
Posted by: Marcus at January 18, 2013 02:33 PM (GGCsk)


Good one

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:33 PM (jE38p)

153 140 TCN,

Dead on that is the faith based defense as Christian Soldier doctrine recognizes.

Nobody has the right to make anyone else their doormat for its own sake.

I believe that it is why I hate the Klan.

You owe no one your tears, much less your blood.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:34 PM (LRFds)

154 This is such epic bullshit. Also from the publication:

These findings suggest that, in general, far-right groups and individuals are more inclined to engage in violence in a contentious political climate. This helps to explain the lack of increase in the level of violence during 1996, the least-competitive elections of the last 22 years."

Really? REALLY?

Now, to be clear, they aren't saying that the right is more inclined to engage in violence than the left. They're saying that the far-right is naturally violent, and displays that violence more often in election years. Which is such epic bullshit, I can't even...

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:34 PM (4df7R)

155 ah so the boy scouts, the VFW, the American legion are all in there then....

the SPLC is a commie front.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:25 PM (LRFds)

Along with Straight White Conservative Males.


Sipsey Street has a write up about this (back in September.)

http://tinyurl.com/9jtxod7


SSI - "Yet, according to Perliger, we "anti-federalists" (and I surely acknowledge my Anti-Federalism, going back to Founders like George Mason and Patrick Henry) are now one of the "three trends of far right violence in the United States." AND THIS ILL-INFORMED SCHMUCK IS TEACHING WEST POINT CADETS."

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:34 PM (fWAjv)

156 what is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?

That's kind of deep for me, but I imagine it's at the root of "...with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty,..."

Posted by: t-bird at January 18, 2013 02:34 PM (FcR7P)

157 Sven, and most of the supermen - will just fade. The slacks and ball lickers won't be able to reach the ld on time.

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 02:35 PM (LBUCy)

158 I'm....I'm....speechless. The 'far-right' was the KKK?!!! Congratulations liberals, your rewrite of history has even reach West Point.Fucked we are.....
Posted by: Tami at January 18, 2013 02:32 PM (X6akg)


Their definition of "far-right" pivots more or less on "racist = far-right." That's it. So since KKK was a racist organization, then it must be far-right.

I'm so hopping mad reading this thing, I almost can't think.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:35 PM (4df7R)

159 There must be a special place where people go just to exchange words like gravamen.

In high school it's called "chess club."

Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (Lxw+T)

160 General Stanley McChrystal appeared on WMAL's "Mornings on the Mall" with Brian Wilson and Breitbart's Larry O'Connor to discuss his new book: "My Share of the Task: A Memoir." When asked about the potential sequestration cuts to the military McChrystal called them "irresponsible" and they would be "catastrophic" for the military.


Amen

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (jE38p)

161 >>>What is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?


Well, the idea is so basic to me I never even thought about the Moral case for it.

You've got to go back to Roman Law for that one. They are the ones that codified it, which would make it part of Old English law, which then went on to be passed to us.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (0q2P7)

162 So, I gotta ask, will we get a rerun of zero dark thirty in Algeria, to free the Americans held hostage by the one-eyed devil?

Working title of the new movie, in which Katherine Bilge-Low will come out of the closet and finally declare her position on torture . . . Gutsy Call II - The Sequel.

Posted by: The littl shyning man at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (PH+2B)

163 I was trying to think of an argument to convince a Liberal about gun ownership...

Back up. First you'd have to convince them that personal independence and responsibility are good things.

Posted by: t-bird at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (FcR7P)

164
Ace,

The worldview that you speak of in this post was perfectly exemplified in the sale of Current to Al Jazeera.

Al Gore stated that he did not sell to Glenn Beck because of their differences in worldview. He is therefore stating that he fells a closer kinship with the government of Qatar than a guy from Texas.

Weird, yet it furthers the goal.

Posted by: MJ at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (vl5mg)

165 Shit. Forgot to add the roast pork so I just have potatoes and carrots for lunch.

I swear I'm not a vegan.

Honestly.

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (fWAjv)

166 AND THIS ILL-INFORMED SCHMUCK IS TEACHING WEST POINT CADETS."



Yep. Forwarding the piece to a friend whose son is attending there now. The boy is also an Evil Eagle Scout.


The dad is a conservative, a physician, tea party supporter....this won't go over well.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:37 PM (UOM48)

167 mwr, yeah i'm just stunned, how could they write this,
They believe this?
srsly
WE? are a threat?

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:37 PM (nqBYe)

168 if they go ahead and destroy those pagan pyramids, the Gippo economy will miraculously recover

Posted by: open the pod bay doors, HAL at January 18, 2013 02:37 PM (Dll6b)

169 >>>That's kind of deep for me, but I imagine it's at the root of "...with
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty,..."

I'm positive that you'd have to read Ethics and Politics to get a good source answer on that one.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 02:37 PM (0q2P7)

170 and they lump us with the scourge ?

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:37 PM (nqBYe)

171 McChrystal is also for the gun control imposed by the JEF IIRC. Somebody ask him about West Point's new report

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 02:38 PM (Dnbau)

172 159 There must be a special place where people go just to exchange words like gravamen.

In high school it's called "chess club."
Posted by: George Orwell what knows composite girlfriends give fantasy nookie at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (Lxw+T)

_____________

Forensics.

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 02:38 PM (r2PLg)

173 It is much simpler than this.

Islamists want statism to impose Islam and they'll vote for bigger government until they take over. So Muslims fight with the left 'for now'. Islam fights for lefty power.

Christians often want individual liberty so stand in the way of government power and thus oppose lefties so they are demonized.

Posted by: GardenGnome at January 18, 2013 02:38 PM (R4WsQ)

174 You've got to go back to Roman Law for that one. They are the ones that
codified it, which would make it part of Old English law, which then
went on to be passed to us.


Pretty sure Hammurabi would take issue with that.

The fact is, if murder is wrong, then self-defense (which is the active opposite of murder) cannot be. If it is wrong to murder me, it cannot be wrong for me to attempt to prevent my own murder.

But, as I said, the moral foundation that formed Hammurabi's understanding of it (whether he would use the terms or not) is the concept of self-ownership.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:38 PM (/eBe8)

175 157 jean,

or maybe not....but I think the right needs to get over its love affair for its own sake with the military.

If that asshole is what West Point thinks of the people who voted for Mitt Romney then it needs defanged and destroyed.

The GOP could blow up the democrats tomorrow if it started demanding an end to Obama's illegal wars in the defense of Islam.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:38 PM (LRFds)

176 So, I gotta ask, will we get a rerun of zero dark thirty in Algeria, to free the Americans held hostage by the one-eyed devil?

Working title of the new movie, in which Katherine Bilge-Low will come out of the closet and finally declare her position on torture . . . Gutsy Call II - The Sequel.
Posted by: The littl shyning man at January 18, 2013 02:36 PM (PH+2B)

More likely the blind bastard walks

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:39 PM (jE38p)

177 I'm positive that you'd have to read Ethics and Politics to get a good source answer on that one.

They must be two separate books. I'd just look in the first one.

Posted by: t-bird at January 18, 2013 02:39 PM (FcR7P)

178 Well my post when up before I saw 142. but that is a good start , I like it, a lot. A very Randish answer and I have always fancied myself an objectivist after being introduced to the idea. It is one of those things that I find so self-evident that to hear anyone challenge them, usually enrages me.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:39 PM (dDD3H)

179 "However, can we also attribute the increase in the level of violence during particular timeframes to specific policy initiatives or other developments in the political arena? This question is relevant for two reasons. First, some studies on radicalization of counterculture communities, i.e., their tendency to slide to violent activism, found significant correlation between the occurrence of political events or the initiation of governmental policies which had the potential to pose a threat to the counterculture way of life, and the tendency of community members to engage in violent activism. Second, many of the texts that analyzed the history of the American far right tended to refer to such linkages. For example, the US Supreme Court rulings in 1954 against “separate but equal” policies in the education system, and in 1955, ordering district-level racial integration in the school system, are usually used to explain the recovery of the KKK in the mid-1950s...."

OMG, KKK was a fucking DEMOCRAT INSTITUTION, you clueless FUCK. And in cased you haven't noticed, when most people talk about "counter culture," they're talking about the g-ddamn LEFT, you ASS.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:39 PM (4df7R)

180 Hey, George, the ocean called and said, "Eat those unclean shrimp and we'll kill you, you infidel dog!!!"

Posted by: riley, the moslem brotherhood convert smartass at a board meeting at January 18, 2013 02:39 PM (01R+Z)

181 >>>They must be two separate books. I'd just look in the first one.


You'd miss out..on a LOT.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 02:41 PM (0q2P7)

182 mwr, they truly are re-writing history.
i guess that is why there was no uproar when it was said

we are all socialists now.

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:41 PM (nqBYe)

183 They then peacock around, showing off their Morally Superior feathers, noting how -- unlike those Xtianists in the US -- they don't "hate" and "fear" what they don't understand.


>>>See, I told you . Peacock is a great name for these assholes of the new aristocracy.

Posted by: taylork at January 18, 2013 02:41 PM (ppNDn)

184
speaking of which...

we're about due for yet another report out of Syria claiming Assad is committing atrocities


/the beating of the war drums for Syria

/we must Do Something

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2013 02:41 PM (zwqd/)

185 167 ette,

ette we *are* a threat, we know the rules well enough to understand that with an Article V convention we can break the Union legally.

If the Pentagon leadership has decided that the Constitution is a dusty old document and not really that important they are no longer any different than the Wehrmacht and just as worthy of deference.

Now I don't think this is the whole military, I think it is democrat officers saying things they think is "helpful" to their man's cause and the force as a whole is still loyal to their oath.

If not we can deal with that later, BUT we could all do well to call our Congress critters' and demand this dick's dick be under subpeona for hearings.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:42 PM (LRFds)

186 Former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was indicted Friday on charges that he used his office for personal gain, accepting payoffs, free trips and gratuities from contractors while the city was struggling to recover from the devastation of Hurricane Katrina.

The charges against Nagin are the outgrowth of a City Hall corruption investigation that already has resulted in guilty pleas by two former city officials and two businessmen and a prison sentence for a former city vendor.

The federal indictment accuses Nagin of accepting more than $160,000 in bribes and truckloads of free granite for his family business in exchange for promoting the interests of a local businessman who secured millions of dollars in city contract work after the 2005 hurricane. The businessman, Frank Fradella, pleaded guilty in June to bribery conspiracy and securities-fraud charges and has been cooperating with federal authorities.

Nagin, 56, also is charged with accepting at least $60,000 in payoffs from another businessman, Rodney Williams, for his help in securing city contracts for architectural, engineering and management services work. Williams, who was president of Three Fold Consultants LLC, pleaded guilty Dec. 5 to a conspiracy charge.

The indictment also accuses Nagin of getting free private jet and limousine services to New York from an unidentified businessman. Nagin is accused of agreeing to wave tax penalties that the businessman owed to the city on a delinquent tax bill in 2006.

But But But it was all President Bush's fault!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:42 PM (jE38p)

187 Peacocking around..

That was also a good one.

No one can peacock around quite like the popinjay.

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 02:42 PM (r2PLg)

188 So, I gotta ask, will we get a rerun of zero dark thirty in Algeria,
------

Al Gerrya. Haven't heard of him. He related to Ben Ghazi?



-that is the answer we will get.

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:42 PM (fWAjv)

189 we're about due for yet another report out of Syria claiming Assad is committing atrocities


/the beating of the war drums for Syria

/we must Do Something

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2013 02:41 PM (zwqd/)


And don't forget the "Rebels" are all saints

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:42 PM (jE38p)

190 So, I gotta ask, will we get a rerun of zero dark thirty in Algeria, to free the Americans held hostage by the one-eyed devil?

Posted by: The littl shyning man


The O-ring administration already outsourced the rescue to the Algerian forces. And they fucked it up. Some of the hostages were killed by the Algerians.

30 or so are still supposedly held captive while 100 either were rescued, killed, or are still missing.

It's a clusterfuck and no one cares.

Our country doesn't deserve this peaceful time. We should hope that Gods of History don't notice.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 18, 2013 02:43 PM (KDq5l)

191 See, I told you . Peacock is a great name for these assholes of the new aristocracy.
-----------------
Hmmm. I like it. I've been trying to think of a counter to the catch all pejorative of 'teabagger' for awhile.

Peacock. It's perfect.

Posted by: MJ at January 18, 2013 02:43 PM (vl5mg)

192 Ugh I need to take a blog break and relax a bit.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 02:43 PM (dDD3H)

193 178 gigg,

It's all good it was jarring the first five times I read asshole Staff officers committing lies on my beliefs.

It doesn't hurt anymore it just makes me sad.

The Army is going to help push this to a bad place too.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:43 PM (LRFds)

194 188 So, I gotta ask, will we get a rerun of zero dark thirty in Algeria,
------

Nothing is going down until after the Inaugural parties.

Posted by: SKYNET HAS BEEN INFORMED at January 18, 2013 02:44 PM (r2PLg)

195 190 weft cut loop,

Obama wants the army ready for work a little closer to home.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:44 PM (LRFds)

196 These are not the mostly peaceful freedom fighters we thought they were.


Posted by: dananjcon at January 18, 2013 02:44 PM (jvd3N)

197 Yeah, gigg....I'm right behind you. Need a break.

Posted by: Tami at January 18, 2013 02:44 PM (X6akg)

198 191....Peacock. It's perfect.

They already have their own tv channels, too.

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 02:44 PM (fH4X9)

199 sven, I know you are trying to fit things together for me, But really I can't proccess it, as i said my brain is flopping right now.


maybe i should take a brief run toblow off the anxiety and get a grip

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:45 PM (nqBYe)

200
OMG, KKK was a fucking DEMOCRAT INSTITUTION, you clueless FUCK. And in cased you haven't noticed, when most people talk about "counter culture," they're talking about the g-ddamn LEFT, you ASS.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:39 PM (4df7R) I'm just getting caught up reading Ann Coulter's "Mugged". She makes the case about the KKK and democrats just about as well as MWR.

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:45 PM (ZDsRL)

201 These are not the mostly peaceful freedom fighters we thought they were.


Posted by: dananjcon at January 18, 2013 02:44 PM (jvd3N)


If you like your freedom fighters, you can keep your freedom fighters

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:45 PM (jE38p)

202
Peacock Obama.

Peacock Kerry.

Peacock Holder.

Peacock Reid--doesn't quite work.

Peacock Pelosi.

Posted by: MJ at January 18, 2013 02:45 PM (vl5mg)

203 198 191....Peacock. It's perfect.

They already have their own tv channels, too.
Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 02:44 PM (fH4X9)

Damn it--beautiful.

Posted by: SKYNET HAS BEEN INFORMED at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (r2PLg)

204 maybe i should take a brief run toblow off the anxiety and get a grip
Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 02:45 PM (nqBYe)



*shoves one of Mommy's cookies through USB port to you*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (VtjlW)

205
srsly
WE? are a threat?


Yeppers. Big Sis started that around 4 years ago.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (yiIja)

206 Leftard wisdom bears a striking resemblence to plain old fashioned stupidity.

Posted by: maddogg at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (OlN4e)

207 the 'anti-Federalists' became the Democratic-Republicans, who became the .................Democrats


Tinkers to Evers to Chance

Posted by: open the pod bay doors, HAL at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (Dll6b)

208 I'm with gigg and Tami. Need a break. My rage meter just blew up.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (UOM48)

209 151 Allen G,

or as the Scots were fone of saying,
Nemo me impune lacessit

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (LRFds)

210 Peacocking around..

That was also a good one.

No one can peacock around quite like the popinjay.

Is that the Nattering Naybob Poppinjay, or the Foppish Popinjay?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:47 PM (GFM2b)

211
Peacock.

And that song by Katy Perry (I think).

Posted by: MJ at January 18, 2013 02:47 PM (vl5mg)

212 >>>what is the moral construct behind the right to self-defense?

Natural Law.

Plato, Aristotle and Aquinas could probably make a better case than me.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at January 18, 2013 02:47 PM (9o+v/)

213 I'm with gigg and Tami. Need a break. My rage meter just blew up.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (UOM4

It's gonna be a long 4 years, ya better buy a bigger rage meter

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:47 PM (jE38p)

214 I'm with you guys.

My brain nearly broke when I realized that by "anti-Federalist" they meant "anti-Nationalist." Which are sort of opposites.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 02:47 PM (/eBe8)

215 He is also the author of "Jewish Terrorism in Israel."

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (fWAjv)

216 It's all good it was jarring the first five times I read asshole Staff officers committing lies on my beliefs.

It doesn't hurt anymore it just makes me sad.

The Army is going to help push this to a bad place too.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:43 PM (LRFds)

Looking at that West Point thing, I believe it reinforces a point i've made in the past.

Do not count on the police and military to push back against the Nazification of this Nation. Look for them to follow orders.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (bb5+k)

217 Point of Order Here:

Weren't a group of the founding fathers called "ANTI-FEDERALISTS"

AND ISN'T THEIR INFLUENCE DIRECTLY INCLUDED IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, I.E., THE ENUMERATED POWERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE TENTH AMENDMENT.

So a very valid point of view has now become a "threat" to the country that was built on THESE VERY FUCKING PRINCIPLES.


If it wasn't for the internet we would be truly fucked.

Posted by: Prescient11 at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (tVTLU)

218 My understanding of North Africa, as explained by the foreign policy alcoholics experts at the Obama Administration's State Department, is that the situation is fluid.

That's all you need to know.

Posted by: Fritz at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (/ZZCn)

219 Islamist gunmen who seized hundreds of gas plant workers in the Sahara told Algerian staff they would not harm Muslims but would kill Western hostages they called “Christians and infidels”, a local man who escaped said on Thursday.

In a rare eyewitness account of Wednesday’s dawn raid deep in the desert, a local man employed at the facility told Reuters the militants appeared to have good inside knowledge of the layout of the complex and used the language of radical Islam.

“The terrorists told us at the very start that they would not hurt Muslims but were only interested in the Christians and infidels,” Abdelkader, 53, said by telephone from his home in the nearby town of In Amenas. “We will kill them, they said.”

Gee how charming. Friends of obama I presume?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (jE38p)

220
I'm old enough to remember...back when the Left was calling the terrorists "freedom fighters".

So does this mean that these dangerous "far-right" groups are freedom fighters too?
Or do they not qualify yet...since they haven't killed anyone.

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (fH4X9)

221 199 ette,

You should I am going to take a shower and wash their fucking filth off my soul.

I am the one that defended them from liberal lies.

Whatever.

Learn this phrase and make it your own.

Nemo me impune lacessit


No one may harm me with impunity.


We are who we are, they are who they are and we are better than them.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (LRFds)

222
"I was trying to think of an argument to convince a Liberal about gun ownership....

So let's start out.

Say every individual is a country--and we asked them all to disarm and we only leave the law breakers like Al Qaeda with guns, how would that work?"

Ask them how they'd feel to be disarmed in the face of a Christian fundamentalist totalitarian regime on a crusade to "purify" the country to gain favor with their Lord and Savior Jesus of Nazareth.

If they're of the Useful Idiot variety, they might see the light.

If they're of the Unrepentant Hippie variety, they'll just play their bongos louder.

If they're of they're of the Evil, Lying, Scumbag Democrat Leader variety, they'll laugh, say (correctly) that that scenario will never happen, and continue to exploit the Hippies and Idiots for power and money.

Posted by: Jaws at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (4I3Uo)

223 210 Peacocking around..

That was also a good one.

No one can peacock around quite like the popinjay.

Is that the Nattering Naybob Poppinjay, or the Foppish Popinjay?
Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:47 PM (GFM2b)

___________________

I miss Hitchens--he would have the answer.

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 02:49 PM (r2PLg)

224 http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 02:49 PM (CIjnK)

225 when most people talk about "counter culture," they're talking about the g-ddamn LEFT

Which is pretty fucking ridiculous, since they own every aspect of the "culture", from school curriculum to popular music[sic] to TV and film to news/journalism[sic] to fashion to automobile design to literature to interior design to food to dating.

Shit, they even keep rewriting the Christian Bible.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 02:50 PM (ZKzrr)

226 So, I'm The Other? I'm the Threat?



*looks around at the Horde*



*shrugs*




So be it.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 18, 2013 02:50 PM (da5Wo)

227 Do not count on the police and military to push back against the Nazification of this Nation. Look for them to follow orders.

Then they can end just like the Nazi's did.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:50 PM (GFM2b)

228 Will Obamacare cover a medically induced 4 year coma? Cause I think I'm needing one.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (81UWZ)

229 Ask them how they'd feel to be disarmed in the face of a Christian fundamentalist totalitarian regime on a crusade to "purify" the country to gain favor with their Lord and Savior Jesus of Nazareth.

If they're of the Useful Idiot variety, they might see the light.

If they're of the Unrepentant Hippie variety, they'll just play their bongos louder.

If they're of they're of the Evil, Lying, Scumbag Democrat Leader variety, they'll laugh, say (correctly) that that scenario will never happen, and continue to exploit the Hippies and Idiots for power and money.
Posted by: Jaws at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (4I3Uo)

____________________

That might be a starter.

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (r2PLg)

230 It's bad enough we have low information voters. But we have a low information media which supplies the low information voters with all of the no/low information with which they make their decisions.

Does anyone expect anything less then disaster? Scratch that, I see from sales of rifles and ammunition that a huge block of the country knows pretty damn well what the hell is going on and is preparing themselves.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (feFL6)

231 217 prescient 11,

The federalist and Anti-Federalist papers were the arguments for and against the reconstruction of the Articles of Confederation, arguments without which we would not have gotten our Bill of Rights.

This was an argument about what system we needed between two groups who hammered out compromise.

The left/Feds/Pentagon do not want compromise they want their cookie.

They are about to run out of cookies and want ours.

I want a divorce.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (LRFds)

232 I get it. Liberals are, and always will be very, very stupid and/or deluded. They can die in a fire.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (7xPCu)

233 Chicago PD released woman on South Side where in short order she is gang raped and thrown out of a seventh story window.

Hey, though, they just paid her a $22.5 million settlement to compensate for her medical expenses related to her permanent retardation so we should continue to use Chitown as a model for the safety of the rest of our nation.

http://tinyurl.com/c72yl44

(Of course the comments include a whine from an American pleb about the racism inherent in the system. You see, victim white, suspects black, convictions racist.)

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (1FLBb)

234 Ask them how they'd feel to be disarmed in the face of a Christian
fundamentalist totalitarian regime on a crusade to "purify" the country
to gain favor with their Lord and Savior Jesus of Nazareth.


That's how they see themselves/us already, though, and why they wish to ban guns.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (ZKzrr)

235 I'm surprised:

http://bit.ly/VP2D73

Obama’s Inauguration To Be All About Him.

Posted by: sTevo at January 18, 2013 02:52 PM (VMcEw)

236
Then they can end just like the Nazi's did.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:50 PM (GFM2b)


We don't have a "United States of America" to come to our rescue.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:52 PM (bb5+k)

237 226 BC1981,

There it is.

Run Red like I said and I am not a stormfront guy Barack is slowly turning the state against us, and it is not gonna be a polite "hello" he's got big big plans.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:52 PM (LRFds)

238 Do not count on the police and military to push back against the Nazification of this Nation. Look for them to follow orders.

Then they can end just like the Nazi's did.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:50 PM (GFM2b)


Before we burn down West Point I'd like to see that report and who actually authored it.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (jE38p)

239 They are about to run out of cookies and want ours.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:51 PM (LRFds)
---

Feed 'em the cookies. Burnt. Charred black as coal.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (1FLBb)

240
Just so no one gets in trouble tossing around our new word...

Gravamen is pronounced: gruh-vey-muh n

Not how I would have thought. But we know now so get out there and use it.

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (ZDsRL)

241 My brain nearly broke when I realized that by "anti-Federalist" they meant "anti-Nationalist."

Nationalist socialists. Who determine an individuals' worth by their race.

Huh.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (ZKzrr)

242 236 Diogenes Lamp,

we are the United States.

We are the rescue, or we should all run and start an ex pat colony of freedom.

This is not freedom.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (LRFds)

243
We don't have a "United States of America" to come to our rescue.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:52 PM (bb5+k)


How's your chinese?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (jE38p)

244 The findings presented in Figure 6 may also imply that the operational-social framework of the violent American far right could be better understood—with some modifications—via the framework of the iceberg theory “…of political extremism of social/political movements,” originally developed by Sprinzak almost 40 years ago. In the context of the American far right, it seems that we have a large base of supporters—the base of the iceberg—who are usually engaged in low-level violence such as minor incidents of vandalism or low-sophistication attacks against individuals. The tip of the iceberg includes a relatively small number of people who are responsible for producing mass-casualty attacks. Further developing the analogy, we can say that most of the low-level attacks have received relatively little attention from the media, political authorities and law enforcement: this is the submerged part of the iceberg which cannot be seen. The few mass-casualty attacks, represented by the visible tip of the iceberg, attract most of the attention.


In other words, "The violent far-right, unlike other successful terrorism movements, hasn't advanced to the scale of mass casualty-violence." So, in other words, THEY'RE A NON-FACTOR in the grand scheme of things, and the worst they do is individual acts of vandalism or personal attacks against specific people. Which is exactly the same as any idiot who's ever commited vandalism or assaulted someone.

Someone spent MONEY on this report.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (4df7R)

245 Do not count on the police and military to push back against the Nazification of this Nation. Look for them to follow orders.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp


While caution is warranted, what is not warranted is your certitude.

Anecdote but worthwhile:

"Dan and I met a couple of LEOs in the elevator yesterday. My elevator query: would you confiscate firearms? “I’d shoot my lieutenant for treason,” the cop said without a moment’s hesitation. “My lieutenant said ‘if the order came down from above, I’d have to follow it.’ And I said ‘Then I’ll have to shoot you.”"

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (KDq5l)

246

'member, they're not just revising history in real-time (as it happens).

they're also re-shaping reality as we know it

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2013 02:54 PM (zwqd/)

247
We have been assured thatwhen the Muslim Brotherhood say they want to exterminate Jews and Christians, they just mean in a spiritual way,the same way theyuse the termJihad....

Posted by: MFM at January 18, 2013 02:54 PM (ggRof)

248 241 Ms Radish,

You expect anything else?

Obama embodies the rage the left felt at soccer mom rejecting affirmative action by electing the GOP in '94 and SCotUS limiting it.

He has plans, none of them involve "equality" as we understand the concept.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:54 PM (LRFds)

249 nevergiveup, here's a link to the West Point report:

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:55 PM (4df7R)

250 If it wasn't for the internet we would be truly fucked.
Posted by: Prescient11 at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (tVTLU)
---

It'd already be over.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 18, 2013 02:55 PM (1FLBb)

251 Oh well, off to do my Insanity workout. It's like P90X with more insanity.

Life's gonna be tough up in the Rockies.

Hard body, hard mind, hard life.

Later, morons.

Posted by: BlueStateRepub at January 18, 2013 02:56 PM (7ObY1)

252 Nemo me impune lacessit

No one may harm me with impunity.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:56 PM (GFM2b)

253 Here is the bio of the West Point article author. There is contact info at the bottom of the page. Guy is from Israel. Do they have the left/right backwards like other European countries?

www. ctc. usma. edu/ posts/ experts/ dr-arie-perliger -- lose the spaces.

Not a USMA grad. Not an American, by birth.

Posted by: Dish of Red at January 18, 2013 02:56 PM (Dmq63)

254
Before we burn down West Point I'd like to see that report and who actually authored it.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (jE38p)

Yes, his head needs to be on a platter. I have a friend who has a son at West Point. I'm going to send him this article. Our Congressional Representatives need to demand an explanation for this.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:56 PM (bb5+k)

255 How did Ace put it the other day? Often wrong but never in doubt.

Posted by: toby928© Caesarist at January 18, 2013 02:56 PM (evdj2)

256 We don't have a "United States of America" to come to our rescue.


Until you turn in your guns, we do.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:57 PM (GFM2b)

257 Liberate tutame ex infernis...

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 02:57 PM (e0xKF)

258 Gee how charming. Friends of obama I presume?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (jE38p)


We can't judge an entire group of people on the actions of a few...


Now, US population, hand over your fucking guns because of the actions of a few!!!

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 02:57 PM (fWAjv)

259 243 NeverGiveUp,

Passable, I enjoyed fucking their women.

The Chinese would be thrilled to help a US insurgency I'd wager if the right deals were cut.

Putin is not a communist just a thug tyrant nationalist.

Do not be afraid, if it comes to hit destiny will take care of things.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:57 PM (LRFds)

260 Just so no one gets in trouble tossing around our new word...

Gravamen is pronounced: gruh-vey-muh n

So easy even a gravaman can do it!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 02:58 PM (GFM2b)

261
"Dan and I met a couple of LEOs in the elevator
yesterday. My elevator query: would you confiscate firearms? “I’d shoot
my lieutenant for treason,” the cop said without a moment’s hesitation.
“My lieutenant said ‘if the order came down from above, I’d have to
follow it.’ And I said ‘Then I’ll have to shoot you.”"


Posted by: weft cut loop at January 18, 2013 02:53 PM (KDq5l)

Didn't say they would all be of the same mind, but my point is, when they are not all of the same mind, the tendency is to just Follow Orders. Cascade and Herd theory applies.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:58 PM (bb5+k)

262 Sven:

Exactly!!! Without the Anti-Federalists' arguments and influence, we would never have gotten our Bill of Rights.

But they are the dangerous ones.... Right...

Posted by: Prescient11 at January 18, 2013 02:58 PM (tVTLU)

263 Nevergiveup this is the third attack on us by a person over the rank of O-5 I know of if it is a letter from WP staff.

The last one was that AWC grad wanking off about you and I somehow allying with the Klan.

They have plans, and we are going to be said to have done some pretty nasty things whether we have or not.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 02:59 PM (LRFds)

264 Si vis pacem, para bellum.>>

9mm Parabellum?

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 18, 2013 02:59 PM (81UWZ)

265 How did Ace put it the other day? Often wrong but never in doubt.

Not far from what Ronald Reagan said -- which I apologize for not immediately being able to type in from memory, but must now cut and paste --

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 18, 2013 02:59 PM (feFL6)

266 nevergiveup, here's a link to the West Point report:

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:55 PM (4df7R)


OK the first thing I noticed in the report was this:

The views expressed in this report are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect those of the Combating Terrorism Center, U.S. Military Academy, Department of Defense or U.S. government.

This report, which I have not read thru yet- just the bits I read here- is not written by an Army Officer. I will read it when I get a chance, but the center might get hundreds of reports from all points of view. I'm just saying I think we should calm down a bit.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 02:59 PM (jE38p)

267 Report was by Arie Perliger a West Point Grad and terrorism expert. He wrote a similar report in Sep 2012 saying nearly the same thing. He argues that the threat from the far right is from Neo-Nazi groups (Aryan Nation types), Anti-abortion radical (like Rudolph), and anti-federalists (like Posse Comitatus types). He looked at reported incidents in the last 20-30 years. He likes these dangerous groups to the tip of an iceberg. They are a small part of a larger political movement. He also studied Israeli terrorists who strike within Israel. The Center is allegedly independent of West Point and privately funded but has a ton of military on staff and also a lot of state department types and a former Ambassdor on staff.

I have very little doubt that the administration told them to write the report, and in this way, with the focus on the "anti-federalist" types.

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 03:00 PM (Dnbau)

268 262 Prescient 11,

What the feds are afraid of is the states looking at them and saying "fuck you you broke it you bought it."

The Army works for the feds.

Do not be afraid, the person is just doing their job just "following orders."

It's gonna be a fun spring.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:00 PM (LRFds)

269 >>>Huh.


Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer

The anti-federalists were AGAINST having a central government, to the extent they wanted it as weak and small as possible. They LIKED the Articles of Confederation.

The federalists, wanted a STRONG central government with a LOT of centralized power.

Anti-federalists will eventually found the Democrat-Republican party, which after the death of the Federalist party gets infiltrated by Federalists causing a split around the time of Jackson. At which time the Democrat-Republican party becomes essentially the Federalist party, and the opposition breaks off and forms the Whigs. Who split over the issue of slavery eventually dissolve and reform as the Republican party, whose first real action of note is to use Federal power to end slavery. So yeah states rights kinda died somewhere in there, not really to be spoken of again until Reagan brought back to bear in the 80s and was accused of supporting Slavery.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 03:00 PM (0q2P7)

270 The CTC is housed at West Point and is a political animal that needs to fed via appropriations. I'm not sure what, if any, influence they have on the Academy itself. My guess is that the cadets are dragged over to fill the seats in an occasional lecture, in which they promptly fall asleep.

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 03:00 PM (Is+Nb)

271 If I could nuke Chicago right now, I wouldn't hesitate one second. What a worthless, ugly dump of a city.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 18, 2013 03:01 PM (7xPCu)

272 From the names on the report I am gonna go out on a limb and bet the author and some of his friends are left wing Jews.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:01 PM (jE38p)

273 269 Mike the Mosse,

Correct, the alien and sedition acts were levied against the remaining original Anti-Federalists in the system when they decried what they percieved as actions engaging in overreach.

The Federal Government has a nice long history of out of control stifling of even mild dissent.

Nice to see Obama reliving our history.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:02 PM (LRFds)

274
France during the Revolution, China under Mao, the world is full of examples of places where you could get your head lopped off for just knowing words like gravamen.

And here we are, tossing it around like nothing...

Is this a great country or what?

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 03:02 PM (ZDsRL)

275 Do not count on the police and military to push back against the Nazification of this Nation. Look for them to follow orders.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (bb5+k)

I am a veteran. My son is currently serving as an infantry private and will soon be deployed to Afghanistan (which gnaws at me no end). I'm fairly confident stating neither he nor I would carry out an unlawful order, then or now, even though such a refusal wouldalmost certainly engender a court martial. My point is thata majority of those serving in the military, particularly in combat arms, are the sons and daughters and siblings of those whom the West Point professor seeks to demonize. Most of those soldiers belong to us, not them.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 03:02 PM (vtiE6)

276 Ask them how they'd feel to be disarmed in the face of a Christian
fundamentalist totalitarian regime on a crusade to "purify" the country
to gain favor with their Lord and Savior Jesus of Nazareth.

That's how they see themselves/us already, though, and why they wish to ban guns.

Sucks to have picked the wrong side in a crusade.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 03:02 PM (GFM2b)

277 What is it, five aborted OWS terror plots in a row? Obviously the right wing is the real threat!
.
I almost hope that the West Point people will say that that it's fake or misleading, but the story is old enough, and it's not the first time...
.
If this thinking is accepted there then it ¤is¤ closing time.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at January 18, 2013 03:03 PM (+TFDL)

278 267 ThunderB,

Yup, and I have very little doubt that while the asshole is overstating the problem he has no idea what a big problem it would be.

I am not afraid, I'm sad.

Do not be afraid.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:03 PM (LRFds)

279 I skimmed that West Point report down through p.66 or so before bailing out.

Strong SPLC vibe coming off it, very strong. Sounds like they're trying to ressurect the KKK out of its grave and prop the corpse up as some kinda major threat.

I would not be surprised if the author and "researchers" had significant SPLC links.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 03:03 PM (CIjnK)

280 Our Congressional Representatives need to demand an explanation for this.

Yeah, this is plagiarism!

Posted by: John Boehner at January 18, 2013 03:04 PM (hrAg/)

281 272 From the names on the report I am gonna go out on a limb and bet the author and some of his friends are left wing Jews.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:01 PM (jE38p)

He co-authored 'Jewish Terrorism in Israel"

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 03:04 PM (fWAjv)

282 Sven, I don't fear the O5s, I fear the E5s

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 03:04 PM (bR2AR)

283 275 troyriser,

Not the officer who wrote it.

He belongs to Obama.

I belonged to the nation's organizing document and principles.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:04 PM (LRFds)

284 Most of those soldiers belong to us, not them.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 03:02 PM (vtiE6)

I hope so, but I have had little reason for optimism up till now.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 03:05 PM (bb5+k)

285 Ace do you ever think the anti-anti-Christian right sentiment isn't really worth it if you don't agree with them on much? maybe i've read you wrong on that though.

just, i consider myself pro-life and it's a big reason i vote GOP, but i notice a lot of the commentary on subjects like this (not just here) involve attacking liberals for being mean to conservatives, but not really defending the conservative perspective.

which is...OK i guess? to a point. but i can't help but think a bunch of the people doing this would be relieved if the GOP officially dropped those stances.

Posted by: JDP at January 18, 2013 03:05 PM (60GaT)

286 Report was by Arie Perliger a West Point Grad and terrorism expert.

Where do you get that from???

Arie Perliger is the Director of Terrorism Studies at the Combating Terrorism Center and Assistant Professor at the Department of Social Sciences, US Military Academy at West Point. After completing his PhD in Political Science at the University of Haifa Israel (2007), where he was also a fellow at the National Security Studies Center (NSSC), Dr. Perliger became affiliated with the Department of Political Science at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem as a Golda Meir Post-Doctoral Fellow (2007-200. On August 2008 Dr. Perliger joined the Department of Political Science at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, where he was a Schusterman Visiting Assistant Professor until the summer of 2010.

In the past decade Dr. Perliger has studied extensively issues related to Terrorism and Political Violence, Politics of Security, Politics of the Far Right in Israel, Europe and the US, Middle Eastern Politics and the applicability of Social Network Analysis to the study of social phenomena. His studies appeared in four books and more than 20 articles and book chapters by publishers such as Columbia University Press, Rutledge, Security Studies, Social Forces and others.

Dr. Perliger is the co-editor of the journal Democracy and Security and a regular reviewer for various publishers and Journals such as Political Psychology, Critical Studies on Terrorism, Terrorism and Political Violence, Columbia University Press, Chicago University Press, Routledge and Polity Press.

-

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:05 PM (jE38p)

287
rickb,

maybe you're saying the same thing, but I disagree with what appears to be your pronunciation

The word is said like it looks:

Grah'-va-men

I've said it and heard it in appeals courts at the state and federal level, and throughout law school. It's a word you learn from reading legal cases. It's more appropriate than saying "thrust" and more precise or formal than "main point" or "basic idea."

Posted by: imp at January 18, 2013 03:06 PM (UaxA0)

288 Sorry for the length of this excerpt, but just... *SPUTTER*

"The percentages cited in Figure 12—which classifies far right attacks based on the number of perpetrators—reflect a surprising reality. The great majority of attacks were perpetrated by a single individual or two perpetrators at most. Less than one third of the attacks were carried out by what we can call a group, i.e., three or more perpetrators. How can this discrepancy between the American far-right and other types of terrorism be explained?

First, words of caution are necessary. The perpetrators of 40% of the attacks in the dataset were never caught or identified; it is therefore impossible to know exactly how many perpetrators were involved. While this is not surprising, considering the nature of the phenomenon; and despite the fact that the sample size of the attacks with identified perpetrators is extremely large (2,649 attacks) in comparison to similar datasets, care is still demanded regarding any possible conclusions. Second, the findings may reflect a further, more extreme implementation of the leaderless resistance doctrine, which has been promoted by various leaders of the American far right during the last two decades. Thus, it seems that their words have not fallen on deaf ears. The findings may also indicate an interesting operational path which, on the one hand, ensures the survival of the organization, and on the other hand, allows it to engage indirectly in violent activities. In other words, while the organization as a whole cannot afford to be directly involved in sponsoring and perpetrating a violent campaign, since the legal and organizational implications may be costly, especially in the American/Western context of highly qualified and efficient law enforcement, it encourages individual members to engage in violent activities which are not directly part of the organizational operational framework. This strategy may not work in cases of extreme manifestations of violence—e.g., the loose and previous affiliation of McVeigh with the Michigan Militia, which eventually led to a harsh response against the militia movement after the attack in Oklahoma—but may be effective in cases of minor attacks. Moreover, considering that one of the most efficient countermeasures against far right groups during the 1980s and the 1990s was civilian law suits, the importance in distancing a given group from a direct link to attacks is further evident."



"Why is it that so many far-right terrorist actions are committed by lone wolves, when other acts of terrorism are committed by groups?"

"Because their leaders have told them to act on their own initiative."

So once again, individuals are not responsible for their own actions. There's always someone pulling their strings. Idiots and whackjobs are only idiots and whackjobs because SOMEONE TOLD THEM to be an idiot and a whackjob. This is apparently the shadowy "vast right wing conspiracy" we're all supposed to belong to.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 03:07 PM (4df7R)

289 I would not be surprised if the author and "researchers" had significant SPLC links.


Posted by: PurpAV at January 18, 2013 03:03 PM (CIjnK)


This is exactly what I was thinking. If you've read anything from the SPLC you realize immediately that these people are a special class of loon.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 18, 2013 03:07 PM (bb5+k)

290 286, looks like a future NSC fellow

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 03:07 PM (bR2AR)

291 282 jean,

A lot of the E-5s are still good old boys, most of the combat arms are still what they've always been.

The support services are a little more wobbly.

At the end of the day if there is "an incident" they will lose between 10-20% overnight including my family.

I will be in Louisiana so fast their heads will spin headed to Texas.

We'll bleed off at least a third of what's left.

It'll be long, and bloody.

There will be two nations, one nation under new management, the same with a bunch of new "hated felon traitor assholes", or no nations on this real estate.

An emboldened world's bad actors will settle scores, face reciprocity, and have an economic explosion or implosion.

and mankind will march on.

I suspect the American experiment is coming to an end.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:07 PM (LRFds)

292 Nevergiveup - See my #253. You seem to be correct about him. One thing I noticed. There is a blurb on his bio "–Special thanks to the West Point Class of 1977 for generously supporting this position-"

If anyone knows a '77 grad, they might be interested in knowing where their funding is going...

Posted by: Dish of Red at January 18, 2013 03:08 PM (Dmq63)

293 This guy Arie Perliger is probably as much of a professor at West Point as obama was a professor at University in Chicago. Calm down folks

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:08 PM (jE38p)

294 Nevergiveup he co-authored a book about terrorism by Israelis in Israel and concluded they were right wing fanatics from the hinterlands of the settlements which should be and eventually will be eliminated.

For those that have not been there, the "settlements" of the West Bank are in some cases suburbs of Jerusalem. About 7 minues from the Western Wall. I shit you not

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 03:09 PM (Dnbau)

295 Just to clarify it may well be time for the think tank to go away rather than West Point... Depending on the whys and wherefores.
.
We need to stop funding infiltrators and saboteurs.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at January 18, 2013 03:09 PM (+TFDL)

296 I almost hope that the West Point people will say that that it's fake or misleading, but the story is old enough, and it's not the first time...

There's the standard disclaimer at the start of the report that, "The views expressed in this report are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect those of the Combating Terrorism Center, U.S. Military Academy, Department of Defense or U.S. government." Which begs the question, why the fuck is it being posted on the West Point Combating Terrorism Center website?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 03:10 PM (4df7R)

297 274 JWest,

it is sincerely and without a doubt warts and all the best and I will miss her if she is not already gone....

far too often I feel like a child who can't quit kissing his mother's corpse in a coffin.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:10 PM (LRFds)

298 Nevergiveup he co-authored a book about terrorism by Israelis in Israel and concluded they were right wing fanatics from the hinterlands of the settlements which should be and eventually will be eliminated.

For those that have not been there, the "settlements" of the West Bank are in some cases suburbs of Jerusalem. About 7 minues from the Western Wall. I shit you not
Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 03:09 PM (Dnbau)

Yeah I know. That is my point. He is a left wing wacko Israeli. They have them also. No shocka here.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:11 PM (jE38p)

299 295 Mero,

If Obama is going to destroy our capability anyway and use our forces to arm and train Muslims to kill Christians.

It's time for DoD to go away the American people can't be trusted to elect adults to use their toys.

No offense.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:11 PM (LRFds)

300 still, they are funded by somebody or something that needs to be looked at.

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 03:12 PM (Dnbau)

301 rickb,

maybe you're saying the same thing, but I disagree with what appears to be your pronunciation

Sorry. Poor rip-off of the old Geico/caveman commercial.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 03:12 PM (GFM2b)

302 There's the standard disclaimer at the start of the report that, "The views expressed in this report are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect those of the Combating Terrorism Center, U.S. Military Academy, Department of Defense or U.S. government." Which begs the question, why the fuck is it being posted on the West Point Combating Terrorism Center website?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 03:10 PM (4df7R)


Because in free societies we post stupid stuff sometimes. I am sure it is not the only stupid thing ever posted on a West Point Web site. Now I doubt you'll find crap like that on the Annapolis Web Site!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:13 PM (jE38p)

303 302 NGU,

Don't make me look.

I'd prefer to remember your service for War Plan orange and not have it bear the taints of mine.

No offense.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:13 PM (LRFds)

304 Still look at the staff on the website for the Center. More than a few military officers. Who asked for this report?

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 03:14 PM (Dnbau)

305 300 ThunderB,

if only we had a group of people empowered to look out for our interests....

what could we call them?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:14 PM (LRFds)

306 If you've read anything from the SPLC you realize immediately that these people are a special class of loon.

Morris Dees has been trying to reanimate the fizzled "militia threat" for almost a decade. He put a lot of money in the bank over that back in the 90's when the scare was going full tilt and he was a high demand media darling.

Times are tough. Gotta pay the bills.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 03:15 PM (CIjnK)

307 304 ThunderB,

Like I said call your congress critter.

Get someone to ask.

The guy just issued a Fatwa on the right trying to plant Robert Byrd's Klan Klothes on us....

I want to beat his ass.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:15 PM (LRFds)

308 Still look at the staff on the website for the Center. More than a few military officers. Who asked for this report?
Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2013 03:14 PM (Dnbau)


Centers like that get reports from like that from all kinds of different people of all political stripes. I really would not read to much into that.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:16 PM (jE38p)

309 Ask for me tomorrow, and you shall find me a gravaman.

Posted by: Mercutio at January 18, 2013 03:16 PM (evdj2)

310 Sven, I actually think the despised boot lickers on top refuse the orders. They know they can't win and won't want to sully their institution, plus it put them in a perfect place to either be or pick the new leadership when the dust settles.

Plus, the chances of making it back to base housing alive are slim.

Best the Left can hope for is a stand down, getting a free ticket and drink coupon on an L188 is more likely.

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 03:17 PM (+NNlC)

311 306 Purp Av,

Yeah he was probably the guiding light behind that scenario I dissected here that one ONT.

You can wreck the US just in time logistics net with less than 10,000 people.

They live in a cartoon they cannot even contain a nation the sixe of a good part of texas let alone ConUS.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:17 PM (LRFds)

312
sven @ 297

First I get a word I didn't understand, now you throw a whole sentence at me that I haven't a clue what it means.

I'm going to take a nap now.

Posted by: jwest at January 18, 2013 03:17 PM (ZDsRL)

313 Hobbit, kind of reminds me of Herr Doktor Science's racist newsletters not reflecting on him.

Also, isn't it funny that the MFM has been covering up this massive right-wing intifada?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at January 18, 2013 03:17 PM (+TFDL)

314 Like I said call your congress critter.

Get someone to ask.

The guy just issued a Fatwa on the right trying to plant Robert Byrd's Klan Klothes on us....

I want to beat his ass.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:15 PM (LRFds)

That's probably a good idea to call congress, but I can almost assure you that the 30 odd of us here are over half of the people even aware of this report other than the half dozen cadets that slept thru it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 03:18 PM (jE38p)

315 310 jean,

Maybe....I wonder what really was going on in the Night of the Sicillian Vespers over Libya?

We lost a bunch of brass on that mess.

They sure denutted peaches though eh?

I pray a lot more than I did a year ago if that helps you get where I'm at.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:18 PM (LRFds)

316 sven10077

I think if you can find a contact for the USMA Class of 1977 you might get more traction letting them know what they are funding with their class donations. My son is attending the USAFA, so I have some access to a forum that includes West Point. I don't see any class specific links on that forum, but I'll look around. I don't Facebook or Twitter, but I bet they have a class page on there as well. I know my husbands AFA class does...

Posted by: Dish of Red at January 18, 2013 03:22 PM (Dmq63)

317 J West,

didn't mean to be overly cryptic.

JWest I got through some bad times loving what I thought, and what I thought Reagan showed me this nation was. I know she's done wrong, God i know she's done wrong I can usually point out real harms in place of the moonbat's made up ones and examples worse than theirs but by God we try to be better and thus far in our nation's history we have been better. The thing is sometime around late 2003 when the left started actively undermining the war to bang Chimpy I recalled that Clinton had tried to label me a terrorist and that he had a pretty colorful '60s background himself and the media gave him a pass on it.

I just think, that the America I was in love with the system I revered as best guarantor of the ideas on liberty the Declaration of Independence embodied is dead and I can't let go.

At some point a little boy at his mom's casket crying tears on her much kissed face has to close the coffin and get back to work showing that the son lives up to the ideals she tried to teach him.

I'm nearing being ready to close the lid.

sorry to be morose.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:23 PM (LRFds)

318 Time to establish UNATCO!

51
AllenG, here's a link to the article at the Washington Times: http://tiny.cc/ymf4qw



A West Point think tank has issued a paper warning America about
“far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist” movement, which
supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and self-government.”



The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the
U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from
the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right...”



Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 18, 2013 02:12 PM (4df7R)

Posted by: Walton Simons at January 18, 2013 03:25 PM (cv5Iw)

319 Sven, cant address that topic here

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 03:25 PM (S4AQU)

320 Leftism isn't really a worldview which even attempts an evenhanded and
universal application to similar situations. It's merely a goal, an
agenda, and any means, including blatant dishonesty and laughable
hypocrisy and inconsistency, are fair means for pursuing its ultimate
end.

What, you mean like taqiyya?

Posted by: JR at January 18, 2013 03:26 PM (bKxJO)

321 319 Jean,

I decided I had little to lose being open given how prolific I've been with this nic over the years.

if it ever got to that point I'm cornered if they have guys half as good as i was at reverse engineering identity data and I am not that great just "okay."

I am not afraid, I am sad but I am not afraid.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:27 PM (LRFds)

322 Conventional wisdom? Someone needs to tell them who started the m brotherhood. That fucker Qatib came to america and witnesed the degradation. His writing was the basis and he was Zawahiris blow buddy.

Posted by: Dave at January 18, 2013 03:30 PM (v2Cb9)

323 The attempt to tie the Aryan Nations like an albatross around the necks of Christian "fundamentalists" was pretty amusing.


Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 03:31 PM (CIjnK)

324 http://tinyurl.com/adf8qrg

There's the link to West Point's hosting of the PDF of asshat's paper.

I wonder if I get to tenuously link every low ioncome asshole's violence to the "far left?"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:37 PM (LRFds)

325 323 Purp Av,

Yeah pretty much....I was only being 3/4s coy the SPLC probably thinks Baskin Robbins not only selling Choco ice cream is a racist plot.

They were really, really sad hen the Michigan Militia got bumped from top threat status to behind Al Qaeda.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:38 PM (LRFds)

326 I wonder if I get to tenuously link every low ioncome asshole's violence to the "far left?"
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:37 PM (LRFds)
---

Nope. They're provoked by the far right.

Posted by: Arie Shitstein at January 18, 2013 04:06 PM (1FLBb)

327 I'd say shut up is the central thesis of liberals and liberalism. As if there's an obama foreign policy or am obama economic plan.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 18, 2013 04:06 PM (QxSug)

328 why wasn't joe biden asked the "define the obama doctrine" question like Palin was?

because shut up

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 18, 2013 04:07 PM (QxSug)

329
Do not count on the police and military to push back against the Nazification of this Nation. Look for them to follow orders

All totalitarian societies consist of three parts:
1) The Party which administers the nation
2) The military/police which enforces the Party's decisions
3) Some intelligence apparatus which is absolutely loyal and watches over the military/police

Under Hitler, the third element was the SS/Gestapo.
In the Soviet Union, it was the GRU/KGB.

Currently, the police/miltary in the US cannot be counted on to implement any sort of "Nazification".
That third element still needs to be created.

Posted by: RayJ at January 18, 2013 04:44 PM (pI/IV)

330 maybe you missed how dhs is buying up stuff

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 18, 2013 04:59 PM (QxSug)

331 #80 Re: A double whammy of naive leftist delusions.

Leftists are deluded.

Never listen to someone suffering delusions, because near everything they say is crap.

Posted by: anon at January 18, 2013 06:03 PM (f+fIu)

332 Why should anybody be surprised? We are dealing with the same group of people who say that the Nazis weren't any kind of socialists, despite the fact that the word SOCIALIST is right there in their friggin' name. So why wouldn't they look at a group called the Muslim Brotherhood and think they weren't Muslim?

Actually, now that I think about it...this is a window into their own soul. Look at what they do with language. Their intellectual ancestors took a party that held regressive beliefs when it came to rights and freedom...and they named it the "Progressive Party." Their cousins overseas rule many "Democratic Republics" that are run by dictators, and many "People's Republics" that trample on the people, and neither kind of "republic" is a republic in any event.

They fight for "women's rights" by supporting a medical procedure that is often used in many parts of the world -- even right here in America -- to selectively kill developing women. They champion the cause of "social justice" by supporting policies that do violence to the social structures that have done more to advance the cause of justice than any other such set in recorded history. They will not rest until they secure "worker's rights" by systematically making the worker submit to the union that rules him...and "minority rights," which apparently include the right to live inescapably below the poverty line, the right to live in high-crime dangerous areas, and the right to become a perpetual dependent of the state.

On the economic front, they claim to side with the "little guy," and prove it by electing politicians that champion tax breaks and regulatory policies favoring big business. They argue that everyone should get "a fair share," by taking from the shares of those who earned what they have fairly...and then adding to the shares of those that didn't earn what they have now received. They want to preserve "Social Security" by keeping it just the way it is now until it goes bankrupt, at which point the members of the society who depend and planned to depend on it will no longer be or feel secure.

And let's not forget the legislation they support, the chief example of which is the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act," which (as it will turn out) will neither protect patients nor secure affordable care...certainly not the way they promised you. If you like your health plan, you can keep it until your employer kicks you off because they can't afford you anymore, at which point you will join the public plan and wait in long lines for the rest of your life, and eventually have critical care denied by a medical review board because it's not a cost-effective deployment of limited resources. That may sound like a death panel, but believe them, it's totally not.

For people like this, who live in a world where "black is white, up is down, and short is long" (thanks, Weird Al), should it be a shock that they look at the very honest name the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD gave to their organization -- i.e., they're Muslim, and they care about men, not women -- and naturally assume that they were relatively secular and moderate in their outlook?

Posted by: Demosthenes at January 18, 2013 07:11 PM (c5AtG)

333 I think what actually surprises me is the degree of ignorance on the left. How is it possible that a thinking person cannot hear the MB in their own words, and not believe at the very least, that they feel a particular way? And then when they back it up with action...they're gobsmacked?

It's like their entire mindset is "we don't think that it should be that way so therefore it isn't and you're bad".

How does one operate in the world without real analysis?

Posted by: tired at January 18, 2013 07:35 PM (adOUE)

334 332 Demosthene,

God bless you, that was a rather complete dissection and I seem somewhat calmer....nice post.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 09:02 PM (LRFds)

335 46
1. Obastard will just give them the $60 billion he stole from the rich.


Sorry. Too late.

Posted by: Tri-State "Hurricane" Sandy "victims" at January 19, 2013 11:40 AM (jfUIE)

336 wasn't this the dream of the neocons ? That democracy would flower in the mideast ? The real power in Egypt is the military, that's why we give them billions.

Posted by: occam at January 19, 2013 02:06 PM (fbUla)

337 what will we see next? buyer's remorse over Iraq ?

Posted by: occam at January 19, 2013 02:08 PM (cWOlF)






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