John Cornyn: Of Course We're Going To Raise The Debt Ceiling

The Republicans are waving their hands and saying, "This is not the hill you are looking to fight on. Move along".

“We will raise the debt ceiling. We’re not going to default on our debt,” the Republican whip said. ”I will tell you unequivocally, we’re not going to default.”

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) has also said that the debt ceiling must be raised. Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) has said the borrowing limit should not be used for leverage: “If you incur an obligation, you have a responsibility to pay for that,” she told the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner.

While Cornyn doesn't rule out spending cuts as part of the hike, the Democrats don't want that. It's hard to see once you take default off the table what Obama's motivation to cut spending is.

Of course John Boehner explicitly promised to include spending cuts "equal to or grater than" the hike in the debt limit before and after caving on the fiscal cliff.

Some House Republicans argue that the Treasury can avoid default by prioritizing which bills to pay (service the debt first). A former George W. Bush Treasury official disagrees with that.

Let's be honest, the GOP is going to cave on the debt ceiling and get nothing for it. The real question is, will they actually let sequestration (you know the spending cuts the "won" in the last debt fight) happen or will they kick it down the road again to the next hill they will retreat from, the Continuing Resolution?

Let's put it this way...that clanking sound you here is a can being kicked down a road.

Aside from getting rolled on everything the GOP's biggest problem is they look like idiots in the process. If you can't win fights, stop saying you want to fight and think you'll win.

Over promising and under delivering is the worst of all possible worlds.

Posted by: DrewM. at 11:35 AM



Comments

1 the president is a scoamf

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:37 AM (PhI+e)

2 Is it me or are the RINO's starting to spew the LIBtard talking points?

Posted by: cajun carrot at January 18, 2013 11:38 AM (UZQM8)

3 of course you are going to raise it...none of you have spines or balls.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:39 AM (PhI+e)

4 After his performances coordinating the GOP efforts to take the Senate in the last 2 elections, why doesn't this asshole have a ball-gag rammed in his ignorant yap 24/7?

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 18, 2013 11:39 AM (MumYZ)

5 So, at what point do we finally pick up our arms and say, enough of this? When does that happen? There is no salvaging this culture.

Posted by: Aaron at January 18, 2013 11:39 AM (Tlix5)

6 Is it bad that I'm actually welcoming their lack of feck, because I know it will bring the DOOM sooner?

LiB

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 11:39 AM (0q2P7)

7 Republicrats preemptive fail

Posted by: Dastardly Dan at January 18, 2013 11:39 AM (2iVM3)

8 Let it burn ,let it Burn, Let It BURN! Dammit!

Posted by: Paladin at January 18, 2013 11:40 AM (Ks5+T)

9 Save your spot by the 55 gallon drums now! Places are going fast.

Posted by: EC at January 18, 2013 11:40 AM (GQ8sn)

10 In the aftermath of the election, I said as consolingly as I could that while watching Obama be re-elected is a shit sandwich, the alternative would only have been an open-face shit sandwich. This is merely further confirmation of that hypothesis.

After watching the completely corrupt and bloated performance of the GOP in both the House and Senate since the election, does anyone here seriously believe that sleazy porkmeisters like Hal Rogers and Lisa Morecokeski would have been clamoring for sweeping cuts in government under a Romney administration? Not on your life.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (gqT4g)

11 I need to give these guys lessons on how to negotiate.

Posted by: Korbin Dallas at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (e0xKF)

12 Let's put it this way...that clanking sound you here is a can being kicked down a road.

Well, it certainly isn't the GOP's balls.

Posted by: Lt. JG Perkytits at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (RD7QR)

13 They're worse than useless, they're collaborators.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (GBXon)

14 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (/eBe8)

15 *points finger gun at own head and pulls trigger*

I give up.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (UOM48)

16 it's a helluva party you have there Drew.

Have fun with it.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (LRFds)

17 Fuck it. If they're not going to fight, why should I?

Let it burn.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 11:42 AM (/eBe8)

18 can we all agree the rino's are the problem?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:42 AM (PhI+e)

19 Though it means the same thing, I don't understand how these rocket scientists can't just say 'I don't plan on having the USA default' or 'The US will not default'.

Why do they have to also say 'We will raise the debt ceiling' ?

They definitely do not know how to play the game. Pikers and Gimps.

Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 11:42 AM (m2CN7)

20 i suppose it's nice to finally each the understanding we really have no representation in DC.

we only exist for 'the good of the politicians '

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 11:42 AM (nqBYe)

21 Hoping we get a good conservative lCruz-like person to challenge Cornyn in 2014.

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2013 11:42 AM (0GJri)

22 There are no hills worth dying for because all politicians are looking out for themselves, not their constituents. They believe that they can safely kick the can down the road again, because they have succeeded at doing so so many times before, and their constituents have not yet risen up and said "Enough, you worthless corrupt oligarch! Begone, for you have sat here too long for any good you might have done!"

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 18, 2013 11:43 AM (Cnqmv)

23 2 Cajun carrot,

it is not you I think they are out of the closet as shadow donks now.

They probably get briefings from Pelosi on what she wants them to say.

I am barely kidding.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:43 AM (LRFds)

24 Fiscal Reality: How does it fucking work?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 18, 2013 11:43 AM (yiIja)

25 DrewM now lambasting Republicans for caving on the debt ceiling, "kicking the can down the road," and saying that this is not the hill to die on.

This is fucking hilarious. Yeah, go get 'em, bulldog. Never mind that you made the exact same noises you're now sneering at the last time the debt ceiling raise came up. It's all rock-ribbed conservatism, all the time now.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 11:43 AM (CmheR)

26 Highly embarrassing sock off.

Posted by: joncelli at January 18, 2013 11:43 AM (RD7QR)

27 Although what the fuck do I care, I'm pretty much done with the GOP anyway...

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2013 11:44 AM (0GJri)

28 "If you can't win fights, stop saying you want to fight and think you'll win."
In front of all the cheerleaders, the bully pushes the 90 lb. kid with bi-focals.
The kid says, "You better watch it, buddy."
The bully pushes him again, harder.
The kid says, "If you push me again, you're gonna get it."
The bully pushes again, even harder.
The kid walks away. The cheerleaders hiss.

Posted by: RM at January 18, 2013 11:44 AM (TRsME)

29 18 PHXGrl,

or that WE are and we solemnly take the blame, acknowledge that America has moved on and petition for secession....

"yeah"....

the RiNOs are Socialists like the "moderate" mules....the hard left are commies.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:44 AM (LRFds)

30 5 So, at what point do we finally pick up our arms and say, enough of this? When does that happen? There is no salvaging this culture.

Posted by: Aaron


Frankly I did that in 2008. 2010 gave me false hope. 2012 was just confirmation. The parasites beat the producers. Take a torch to it....

Posted by: backhoe at January 18, 2013 11:44 AM (ULH4o)

31 we only exist for 'the good of the politicians '

The 13th Amendment does not apply to the federal government.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 11:45 AM (ZKzrr)

32 "Quisling! Do You Speak It MoFo?"

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 18, 2013 11:45 AM (Cnqmv)

33 DrewM: ..."Some House Republicans argue that the Treasury can avoid default by prioritizing which bills to pay (service the debt first)."

This is what makes me crazy...
Is there no 'Priority List' of which bills to pay first?

Barky and the Dems always put the things like the Military, SocSec and Debt Pymts...as the last things to pay.
These should be at the top of the Priority List to pay first!

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 11:45 AM (fH4X9)

34 It was so cold here this morning, I saw a politician with his hands in his own pockets...

Posted by: CSMBigBird at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (jsWA8)

35


There is no GOP.

These idiots have nothing to do with conservatism.

They have no plan for anything.

Really just a bunch of parasites.


Posted by: Rev dr E buzz at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (raGXo)

36 25 EoJ,

He's just trying to finish the party off...we bled maybe 10-15% of our base the last time.....this time by feeding the "fuck it raise the BLACK FLAG!" shit he's making it easy for guys that held on but sympathized with the quitters like me to leave....of course i was a little ahead of the curve thanks to Sandy hook.

Congrats Drew you are the most moral man on the planet.

Me I just want a freer market and growth.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (LRFds)

37 Is there no 'Priority List' of which bills to pay first?


You mean, like, a budget?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (ZKzrr)

38 Yeah.... and then... we'll pass immigration reform so... the Latinos will like us... yeah... thats the ticket...

and... then... uh.... we can pass Assault Weapons bans... yeah... because if we're unarmed no one will expect us to fight for that hill.... and then we don't have to die on it.....

Yeah.... thats the ticket.... and Honey Boo Boo... whom I've slept with....

Posted by: John Boehner at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (lZBBB)

39 The Republicans are waiving their hands

Now there's a fantastic Freudian slip.


So. We're fucked then.


Good to know.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (VtjlW)

40 Yeah, fuck it. Let it burn.

Posted by: Trialdog at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (oSKxc)

41 The Republicans are waiving their hands

I see what you did there.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at January 18, 2013 11:47 AM (Lxw+T)

42 burn baby burn....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:47 AM (PhI+e)

43 Are any of us really surprised !
I didn't think so ....

Bring on a viable 3rd party who is Tea Party based...


Posted by: American Dawg at January 18, 2013 11:47 AM (trA4n)

44 "Over promising and under delivering is the"


Quickest way to LOSE your base. Forever.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 18, 2013 11:47 AM (GFM2b)

45 31 Ms radish,

correct...we are in fact being reserfed....

that is the game being played the US being in a downturn right now is perverse we have resources to grab and without the freeshit cannon our wages would deflate but we would still be able to really grow.

They regulated this economy to a standstill and will not let off the controls.

I hate them and want a new nation.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:48 AM (LRFds)

46 New and improved party for the next election and send the constituents of Evil home.. I am telling you that large breasted women from the Tea party , on Cavuto regularly is a good candidate ..She speaks hatred for libertard shit like a pig caller at the state fair

Posted by: Cleneza at January 18, 2013 11:48 AM (Q8Pu5)

47 I understand the need to assure the uninformed electorate that you are not going to let the country go to crap. In fact I believe its necessary. But there is a smart way to do it and these statements are not them.

Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 11:48 AM (m2CN7)

48 Can't default on our debt. The markets will go haywire. You know, Wall Street.

You default on your debt and Wall Street will take a big dump on a police car or something.

These fucking clowns.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at January 18, 2013 11:48 AM (C1cTe)

49 They may be on The Hill, but in Neo fashion -- there is no hill.

My last gasp of support for the Rs died on the Sandy Porkulus Spend Like Drunken Sailors Bill. They managed to load it up with more spending than TFG requested, and of course there were no offsetting cuts anywhere else.

To hell with the spoon, there is no shame.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 18, 2013 11:48 AM (cHZB7)

50 backhoe, let me rephrase: when do we put a torch to it?

Posted by: Aaron at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (Tlix5)

51 Once again, we are reminded that we have lost any semblance of control over what is supposed to be "our" government.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (yiIja)

52 I don't often let it burn, but when I do, my friends, I burn everything to the ground, raze the buildings, and sow the fields with salt!

Posted by: Just Down the Road Reality at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (Cnqmv)

53 I hate them and want a new nation.

---

I recommend a call to Austin, TX, expressing these concerns.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (e0xKF)

54 37 Ms radish,

stop spreading that old disproven mystic religion of math and restraint....

//Hairy Reed agent of CHOOM

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (LRFds)

55 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 11:43 AM (CmheR)

What are you talking about?

I don't think the GOP should make a big deal out of the debt hike, it's a sure loser. But they didn't take my advice last time or this time on the fiscal cliff.

I'm not giving the GOP a hard time for not winning on the debt hike, it can't be won. What I'm giving them a hard time for is A-caving on the fiscal cliff when they could have held firm and B-promising to fight on the debt ceiling and then retreating.

My problem is promising to fight and win and then not fighting and losing. It's the worst of all possible worlds.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (AR+tO)

56 A former George W. Bush Treasury official disagrees wuith that
---
How about you start prioritzing BEFOREHAND a few weeks. If you know a buttload of checks are going out on the first, then you don't spend on something else that is less important at the end of the prior month.
This is budgeting 101 people

Posted by: Bruce the shark at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (SO2Q8)

57 Of course John Boehner explicitly promised to include spending cuts "equal to or grater than"





He grates alright......

Posted by: Tami at January 18, 2013 11:49 AM (X6akg)

58 Let's put it this way...that clanking sound you here is a can being kicked down a road.

No, that's an engine being run without oil that's trashing its rod/main bearings. It won't be long before chunks of metal that ain't supposed to be there start protruding from the crankcase in a variety of places...

...then things get kinda quiet.

...and you start walking.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (CIjnK)

59 pssst there is no hill to die on, there never was...its like a phantom internet girlfriend

Posted by: Thunderb at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (Dnbau)

60 What can we do to hasten The Enflaming?

Seriously, we talk and talk.

But: It has become time for doing.

I have this notion of Billy the Kid laughing and joking on the way to the outhouse. Stupid and silly but deadly serious underneath.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (imtbm)

61 37 Is there no 'Priority List' of which bills to pay first?
You mean, like, a budget?

------------

Budget?....budget...oh yeah, I remember that word.
And I am old enough to remember when Congress used to pass a budget every year.

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (fH4X9)

62 "Let's put it this way...that clanking sound you here is a can being kicked down a road."

That's not what that clanking sound is... something else down the road.

And it's a pity no one among the Repubs is willing to get up and yell "you don't pay your debts by adding to them!"

Posted by: mallfly at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (bJm7W)

63 who's worse than the scoamf? the GOP

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (PhI+e)

64 OT

Drudge has a link to a West Point think-tank study saying that "far right" groups like people who want limited govt represent a threat to the country. It's fucking hilarious. I wonder what our future officers are thinking.

Posted by: EC at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (GQ8sn)

65 Please!!
I haven't finished my gun rights rally sign yet. @472 last thread.
And thanks BackwardsBoy!!
Knowing you can get behind it helps me trust my lousy writing skills.

Posted by: teej at January 18, 2013 11:51 AM (M79pc)

66 48
Can't default on our debt. The markets will go haywire. You know, Wall Street.



You default on your debt and Wall Street will take a big dump on a police car or something.



These fucking clowns.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at January 18, 2013 11:48 AM (C1cTe)

From what I can tell the market has ceased to be rational.

Posted by: joncelli at January 18, 2013 11:51 AM (RD7QR)

67 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 18, 2013 11:46 AM (VtjlW)

Heh. That really was a fantastic typo.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 11:51 AM (AR+tO)

68 So here's a thought re sequestration:

There have been those in the GOP who have said that it's unthinkable to allow sequestration to happen because it'll inflict irreparable damage to the military and to national security.

Except what Obama has made quite clear with the Hagel nomination is that he intends to inflect irreparable damage on the military anyway. If you look at what Hagel is proposing, it's breathtaking in its level of military cuts. Getting rid of both the B-1 and B-52 bombers, for example.

Well, shit, if it's going to happen, it might as well happen in a way that Obama won't like.

America is going to have to experience some moments of sudden awakening to reality, akin to what happened to the British with the Suez crisis in 1956.

The British liked to pretend that they were still a global military power. Suez proved they were not. In like manner, America is pretending that it can continue to be a global military power, while American airpower and naval power shrink steadily every year. America thinks it can spend far less money on arms and still be able to have a "Pacific pivot" to confront and contain China. In the words of the Chinese sage, Na Ga Ha Pen.

That comforting but dangerous illusion has to be punctured. It will unfortunately take a humiliating failure of arms, Suez style, to get the point across to the yawpingly ignorant American electorate. Let's bring that on. It will be horrible, but so is the alternative of continuing down this garden path of magical thinking.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 18, 2013 11:51 AM (gqT4g)

69 The ladies of the Obamaboro Women's Reproductive Hellth Clinic are having a fruit and Obama T-Shirt sale to raise money to help buy down the Bush debt. What have you people done help this county? Nothing, just redickulous racist comments about are black presdent. Give the man a chnace peeple he only has had 4 yeers to fix the Bush mess !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Obamaboro, Vt and Proud of it !!!!!!!!!! at January 18, 2013 11:52 AM (48wze)

70 And I am old enough to remember when Congress used to pass a budget every year.

Back in the Bad Old Days of Evil Plutocrat Chimpy McBushitler, with their 5.% unemployment and $1.85 gas.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 11:52 AM (ZKzrr)

71 I wonder what our future officers are thinking.

---

Probably "I guess this was what it was like to be in the Red Army in Afghanistan."

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 11:52 AM (e0xKF)

72 Hell, at least the Washington Generals fake a good effort before they lose.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 18, 2013 11:52 AM (QKKT0)

73 Yes. NOWwe can start talking quadrillions.

Posted by: Child King Barry at January 18, 2013 11:52 AM (wAQA5)

74 @sven,

Oh, no. It's not that simple. A year ago, we were unsophisticated idiots for hoping the House would threaten a shutdown over the debt ceiling. We were "bad at math." We were political naïfs for not running in fear from any action that would possibly hurt our electoral chances, because after all, the real battle was in 2012, remember?

So I want to know what is different now? When did he grow a pair and why? Why was our stupid idea then his great idea now?

Really. I want to hear it. It should be highly entertaining.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 11:53 AM (CmheR)

75 72 Hell, at least the Washington Generals fake a good effort before they lose.

---

*whistles Sweet Georgia Brown*

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 11:53 AM (e0xKF)

76 From what I can tell the market has ceased to be rational.

Posted by: joncelli at January 18, 2013 11:51 AM (RD7QR)


Ben's billions under the table every week will do that.

Posted by: Opus An Arcus at January 18, 2013 11:53 AM (C1cTe)

77 There is a hill to die on. And it exists in the magical land of Narrrrrrrrrniiiiaaaaa!!!!!

Posted by: The GOP at January 18, 2013 11:53 AM (j7MiN)

78 Over promising and under delivering is the worst of all possible worlds.


Or in my case, under-promising and then capitulating.

Posted by: John Boehner at January 18, 2013 11:53 AM (hjRtO)

79 So, the communist plot to takeover America is going as planned…..

Take away the guns, control healthcare, Collapse the economy, impose martial law and then they have a completed junta…..

The military needs to re-group in Texas…..
Tell your families to meet in Texas before such a date and then go time will be a one day window to haul ass to Texas….

Once Obama is neutered so to say….
Then we can plan the re-taking of America.

Posted by: redguy at January 18, 2013 11:54 AM (oKH8p)

80 Over promise and under deliver?

That's the only way some of us can get laid.

Posted by: wooga at January 18, 2013 11:54 AM (arbYd)

81 58 Purp Av,

pretty much I said when we took back the house in '10 that we had at most 6-12 years to address the problem and IMHO we would be lucky to see recovery and realignment in 8-14 years.

Well America listened and thought things through and said "ain't no way you forcing me to have a baby!" and recoronated the king.....

okay.

I think the implosion is now 4-10 years max and probably can't be stopped w/out a lost quarter century we don't have now.

The donks will go further and further left trying desperately to ignore oh you know the 1920-present in EUrope as why that's retarded and the teachers will make sure the kids don't want real growth.

We're doomed the fucking end.

If enough people who get it are packed well enough together or ideally can split off we can still get the wind back but it will be a painful half century I figure.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:54 AM (LRFds)

82 It is about time the RethugliKKKan Party finally ends its policies of right-wing hate and supports Barack Obama's wise plans to rebuild our government's finances after eight years of that faux-cowboy war criminal George W. Bush.
Social and economic justice is the people's right, and the government must have the financial power to create it.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at January 18, 2013 11:54 AM (jCQ+I)

83 its like a phantom internet girlfriend

She's really popular these days. She puts out like Mrs. Claus on Xmas eve.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at January 18, 2013 11:55 AM (Lxw+T)

84 74 EoJ,

careful bans'll be slung...

last time I called him out I got blocked on Twatter.

I'd hate for you to earn his wrath.

He enjoys things that are destructive to the GOP

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:55 AM (LRFds)

85
Yep, all the kicks to the head finally registered after the 2010 elections as I saw the repubs roll over and ignore the tea party that got them there.

Although I had hopes that we would have the lesser demon of a northeast liberal republican in the white house vs an active America destroyer, it would really have been just a delaying tactic.

At the end of the day, what scares me is not the rollover on the financial stuff, we are boned by math, but I can see them rolling over on guns.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 18, 2013 11:55 AM (p/cQy)

86 pssst there is no hill to die on, there never was...its like a phantom internet girlfriend

Yo bro, u callin' me a lyin' Hawaiian? I'll have you know that Hawaiians are famous for having pride in our country of birth, and our honesty.

Posted by: Manti T'eo at January 18, 2013 11:56 AM (feFL6)

87 Having a discussion with some friends on facebook about the electoral college and changing it, especially how the popular vote principle would require a major change in our legislative branch (which is not nationally a popular vote) and the potential for national recounts. The response I got was yes, that's all true, but we're ready for a major shakeup. With multiple likes.

These folks want a major shakeup in which the majority is unstoppable. It's France 1788/Italy 1920's/Germany 1930's all over again. They honestly think giving the gov't more power will not only make the gov't able to help the common folk, but more willing to do so as well. Having worked in schools, it's frightening to see how many students are just fine with a dictatorship (you can even use that word with them and they'll support it) because that'll get things done. They pick it up from home. So what if it failed in the past, this time will be different!

So long as we stay in the ship called The United States, that's where we're heading. When do we lower the lifeboats?

Posted by: Aaron at January 18, 2013 11:56 AM (Tlix5)

88 63 who's worse than the scoamf? the GOP
Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:50 AM (PhI+e)

Really? Shirley, you can't be serious!

Posted by: Dr. Rumack at January 18, 2013 11:56 AM (1Iqf9)

89 Getting rid of both the B-1 and B-52 bombers, for example.

I'd get behind retiring the B-1's. They're a cold war artifact that don't have any value add beyond what the BUFF has in the kind of conflicts we'll be in.

The BUFF, OTOH has a huge payload capacity and can still bring the hurt on the cheap to jihadis worldwide.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 11:57 AM (CIjnK)

90 Probably "I guess this was what it was like to be in the Red Army in Afghanistan."


I'm wondering what the hell this crap is doing in West Point. I'm getting a feeling that this social science bullshit is coming from the top down.

Posted by: EC at January 18, 2013 11:57 AM (GQ8sn)

91 68 TorqueWrench,

EXACTLY we started dismantling the logistics net we relied on for Strategic supremacy as the gulf war was winding down.

We are not what we were in '91 hell we are not what we were in '03 keep on cutting team.

The new nation that the red make needs to focus on our hemisphere for a long while and maybe calm Cuba and venezuela down and form a strategic alliance with Brazil

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 11:58 AM (LRFds)

92 77 There is a hill to die on. And it exists in the magical land of Narrrrrrrrrniiiiaaaaa!!!!!

---

Personally, i would prefer a hill for THEM to die on

Posted by: General Patton (zombie) at January 18, 2013 11:58 AM (SO2Q8)

93 We lose, we lose all the time, we lose big, and we look bad at it also. But on the bright side?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 11:58 AM (9Bj8R)

94 88 dr rumack

they refuse to fight for anything...fuck the GOP

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:58 AM (PhI+e)

95 :::84 74 EoJ,

careful bans'll be slung...:::


Pffffffffffffft.

As if.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 11:58 AM (CmheR)

96 GOP should pretend that debt and spending are abortion and gay marirage. Then I would have confidence they would be unwaivering.

Posted by: California Red at January 18, 2013 11:58 AM (cB0VK)

97 At the end of the day, what scares me is not the rollover on the
financial stuff, we are boned by math, but I can see them rolling over
on guns.


This. Eventually you just get so used to not fighting that you find yourself both unwilling and unable to fight even when you know you should.

And I think we're already there. All of the Republicans who are saying "Well raise the debt ceiling so we won't default" know that's a stupid statement, nonsensical at best and disingenuous at worst. They know you don't pay your debts by incurring more debt. They also know that we have enough money coming in to pay our basic bills.

They've just gotten to the point where they are defeated, and cannot even comprehend the idea of resistance anymore.

When TFG and his Cronies in Congress come for our guns, the Republicans not only won't stop them. They'll help.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 11:59 AM (/eBe8)

98 Too late to got with sequestration?

Posted by: joncelli at January 18, 2013 11:59 AM (RD7QR)

99 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 11:58 AM (CmheR)

When you're done burning down the strawmen you might want to actually read what I wrote and my response to you at comment 55. Or not.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:00 PM (AR+tO)

100 Didn't we just do this like a few days ago? Deja vu all over again.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 12:00 PM (dDD3H)

101 Maybe this at least the hill to get a nasty bruise on? Or Hay Fever?

Posted by: The Mega Independent at January 18, 2013 12:00 PM (j7MiN)

102 This is exactly why, after 25 years of being a registered Republican, I changed my registration to Independent. Screw them. They want to be Democrat lite, they can do it without my support. I wash my hands of the lot of them.

Posted by: Dennis at January 18, 2013 12:00 PM (SEkXG)

103 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 11:53 AM (CmheR)

Aww...look at you, EoJ, deploying those weapons grade memory skills.

But maybe we should be welcoming DrewM to the dark side.
...The dark side of spinal fortitude.
Better late than never!

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 12:00 PM (fH4X9)

104 It's France 1788/Italy 1920's/Germany 1930's all over again.

I don't think Moochelle SCOAMFette has anything to fear, though.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 12:01 PM (ZKzrr)

105 Don't know why, but my brain read that as 'Corzine' instead of "Cornyn" and, for a split second, I almost stroked out.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2013 12:01 PM (piMMO)

106 When TFG and his Cronies in Congress come for our guns, the Republicans not only won't stop them. They'll help.

Repeat prediction: In 10 to 15 years we will have single-payer socialized medicine. If the president at the time happens to be Republican, he will sign it into law.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at January 18, 2013 12:01 PM (Lxw+T)

107 Whatever we're spending on the B-1's would be better directed towards reactivating a squadron of F-117's. The 35 is turkey, always has been, and the 22's don't have as good a thermal masking system.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 12:01 PM (CIjnK)

108 95 EoJ,

I know bans here are pretty meaningless and i also know he probably won't but Drew will not bear being called out on the impact of his views' impact.

The bright side is that as I am nothing in the big scheme of things he is a slightly bigger and more widely read minimal impact force.

The thing that terrifies me though is I think he represents a portion of the GOP base that is there only because they can use a calculator and know the donks' vision costs too much.

Less liberal than Allahpundit is a pretty big club in the GOP, so is "more conservative than drew"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:01 PM (LRFds)

109 I don't think Moochelle SCOAMFette has anything to fear, though.

---

It depends on how the Praetorian Guard is feeling about the SCOAMF and company.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 12:02 PM (e0xKF)

110 So, can we successfully form a third party, or is that just another way to shoot ourselves in the foot?

Posted by: Mindy at January 18, 2013 12:02 PM (8PYbo)

111 careful bans'll be slung...
last time I called him out I got blocked on Twatter.
I'd hate for you to earn his wrath.


If EoJ Was going to get the hammer for Drew bashing, I think it would have already happened.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 12:02 PM (0q2P7)

112 Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Obamaboro, Vt and Proud of it !!!!!!!!!! at January 18, 2013 11:52 AM (48wze)

Excellent.

Nice, tight lunacy.

Well done.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 18, 2013 12:02 PM (GsoHv)

113 tell me this isn't some fkg nightmare.

we really have reps that have an interest in righting the sinking ship?

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 12:02 PM (nqBYe)

114 They've just gotten to the point where they are defeated, and cannot even comprehend the idea of resistance anymore.

When did they know from resistance? They didn't even "resist" when they were the ones in charge.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at January 18, 2013 12:02 PM (j7MiN)

115 [...]

They were willing to risk the fiscal cliff. Today they are willing to risk a breach of the debt ceiling and even a government shutdown rather than collaborate with Obama’s tax-and-spend second-term agenda.

The other view is that you cannot govern from the House. The reason Ryan and John Boehner finally voted yes on the lousy fiscal-cliff deal is that by then there was nowhere else to go. Republicans could not afford to bear the blame (however unfair) for a $4.5 trillion across-the-board tax hike and a Pentagon hollowed out by sequester.

The party establishment is coming around to the view that if you try to govern from one house — e.g., force spending cuts with cliffhanging brinkmanship — you lose. You not only don’t get the cuts. You get the blame for rattled markets and economic uncertainty. You get humiliated by having to cave in the end. And you get opinion polls ranking you below head lice and colonoscopies in popularity.

There is history here. The Gingrich Revolution ran aground when it tried to govern from Congress, losing badly to President Clinton over government shutdowns. Nor did the modern insurgents do any better in the 2011 debt-ceiling and 2012 fiscal-cliff showdowns with Obama.

Obama’s postelection arrogance and intransigence can put you in a fighting mood. I sympathize. But I’m tending toward the realist view: Don’t force the issue when you don’t have the power.

The debt-ceiling deadline is coming up. You can demand commensurate spending cuts, the usual, reasonable Republican offer. But you won’t get them. Obama will hold out. And, at the eleventh hour, you will have to give in as you get universally blamed for market gyrations and threatened credit downgrades.

The more prudent course would be to find some offer that cannot be refused, a short-term trade-off utterly unassailable and straightforward. For example, offer to extend the debt ceiling through, say, May 1, in exchange for the Senate’s delivering a budget by that date — after four years of lawlessly refusing to produce one.

Not much. But it would (a) highlight the Democrats’ fiscal recklessness, (b) force Senate Democrats to make public their fiscal choices, and (c) keep the debt ceiling alive as an ongoing pressure point for future incremental demands.

Go small and simple. Forget about forcing tax reform or entitlement cuts or anything major. If Obama wants to recklessly expand government, well, as he says, he won the election.

Republicans should simply block what they can. Further tax hikes, for example. The general rule is: From a single house of Congress you can resist but you cannot impose.

[...]

Want to save the republic? Win the next election. Don’t immolate yourself trying to save liberalism from itself. If your conservative philosophy is indeed right, winning will come. As Margaret Thatcher said serenely of the Labor Party socialists she later overthrew: “They always run out of other people’s money.”

--Krauthammer @ NRO today.

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 12:03 PM (r2PLg)

116 Stupid assholes, I am SO sick of this shit. Kabuki theater at best. Heres a thought, instead of spending cuts that amount to a billion dollars a year, come up with some cuts that amount to say 750 to 1 trillion that occur THIS year. Fuck the 500 billion over 10 years and then go have happy hour down with your new buddies......assholes.

Posted by: Red Shirt at January 18, 2013 12:03 PM (FIDMq)

117 97 AllenG,

Maybe at the federal level.

Like I said the other day this ain't Oz, Canada, or Jolly Ole' and something is about to give.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:03 PM (LRFds)

118 OT - any NoVa morons (or 'ettes) who reload 5.56 and believe in the free market?

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 18, 2013 12:03 PM (DZqR0)

119 "We must give thanks loudly to President Francois Hollande," said Amadou
Cisse, a local resident. "We are delighted and proud of the French
troops and the Malian soldiers who die every day on the front lines for
our freedom."


http://is.gd/N7hIJ9


♪♫Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.♫♪

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at January 18, 2013 12:03 PM (ZKzrr)

120 should we 'collectively' start some kind of green manufacturing and have some protection against personal collapse?

Posted by: ette at January 18, 2013 12:04 PM (nqBYe)

121 >>>but Drew will not bear being called out on the impact of his views' impact.

Maybe you missed it. One time EoJ and Drew got into it so bad ace had to break it up and send them to separate corners. If Drew bashing got you banned hell most of us wouldn't be here.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 12:04 PM (0q2P7)

122 Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Obamaboro, Vt and Proud of it !!!!!!!!!! at January 18, 2013 11:52 AM (48wze)I like your style. Are you looking for a fake relationship?

Posted by: Mante Te'o at January 18, 2013 12:04 PM (/Mla1)

123 I got some B-25's I can let go of. Cheap.

Posted by: Milo Minderbinder at January 18, 2013 12:04 PM (feFL6)

124 55 don't think the GOP should make a big deal out of the debt hike, it's a sure loser.

So what should they do?

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 18, 2013 12:04 PM (YjDyJ)

125 I'll say it again, the GOP's primary function in American politics
since the New Deal has been to (A) slow down the pace at which America
moves down the trajectory set by the left without changing said
trajectory in the slightest, and (B) to prevent a genuine opposition
movement from taking root and rising up by channeling into the GOP the
energies that would otherwise be spent building such a movement. This isn't going to change. It can't change. The GOP can't change. They don't even try to make the tough arguments. Hell, they don't even try to make the easy arguments. This is an easy argument. Shutting down the government won't result in a default. We pull in something like 8 times the amount of monthly revenue it would take to service out debt. It's pretty simple, and pretty easy to explain. Yet, the GOP doesn't even try. They just accept the false premise that government shut-down and debt default are the same thing.

Seriously, support the LP.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at January 18, 2013 12:04 PM (aLyv3)

126 I am from Texas and just wrote this f'er! When did Cornyn become one of the RHINOs? Texas sure does NOT need Rhinos!! The Democrats are community organizing like hell down here. They think they are taking Texas! Geez Louise.

Posted by: AnnaS at January 18, 2013 12:06 PM (rOtZ6)

127 :::When you're done burning down the strawmen you might want to actually read what I wrote and my response to you at comment 55. Or not.:::

Respond to what? "I don't know what you're talking about?" Care to repost what you wrote and commented during the last debt ceiling debate? That's my point, which you ignored.

Not that I care, since I've read this story before and I know how it ends.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 12:06 PM (CmheR)

128 Geez, a pair of ones?! I fold...

Posted by: The GOP at January 18, 2013 12:06 PM (FcR7P)

129 124 80sbaby,

"force them on the budget"

HAHAHAHAHA you ca't force them on the budget when there's no leverage.

The donk will never let go of the 'emergency" baseline budget.

This is awesome.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:06 PM (LRFds)

130 So your admonishing the GOP for kicking the can down the road but support kicking the can down the road as the only alternative?

Replacement monkey coblogger you are desperately needed!!!

Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 12:06 PM (m2CN7)

131 She's really popular these days. She puts out like Mrs. Claus on Xmas eve.

Is that a lump of coal in your stocking, or are you just happy to see me?

Posted by: Mrs. Claus at January 18, 2013 12:07 PM (zF6Iw)

132 Fine. I ask for a tiny smidgen of help from people I readily acknowledge are more witty than I am, and crickets.
You all going to sit on your asses tomorrow and talk about gun rights instead of finding the rally near you too?

Thanks again BackwardsBoy!!

Posted by: teej at January 18, 2013 12:07 PM (Xi3UG)

133
The gatekeepers:
Rodney Alexander (La.), Lou Bartletta (Pa.), Tom Cole (Okla.), Jeff Denham (Calif.), Charles Dent (Pa.), Mario Diaz-Balart (Fla.), Michael Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Rodney Frelinghuyse (N.J.), Jim Gerlach (Pa.), Chris Gibson (N.Y.), Michael Grimm (N.Y.), Richard Hanna (N.Y.), Jaime Herrera Beutler (Wash.), Peter King (N.Y.), Leonard Lance (N.J.), Frank LoBiondo (N.J.), Frank Lucas (Okla.), Tom Marino (Pa.), Buck McKeon (Calif.), Pat Meehan (Pa.), Tom Reed (N.Y.), David Reichert (Wash.), Harold Rogers (Ky.), Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Fla.), Jon Runyon (N.J.), Jim Shimkus (Ill.), Chris Smith (N.J.), Don Young (Alaska), C.W. Bill Young (Fla).
Pelosi's reserves.

Posted by: gary gulrud at January 18, 2013 12:07 PM (uv0Aw)

134 "Over promising and under delivering is the worst of all possible worlds."

That's what she said.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 18, 2013 12:07 PM (BAS5M)

135 Maybe we can sweeten the deal by letting the D's sell more guns to Mexican drug lords? Just a thought.

Posted by: Seriously Hardline Republican (R) at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (j7MiN)

136 Repeat prediction: In 10 to 15 years we will have single-payer socialized medicine. If the president at the time happens to be Republican, he will sign it into law.

Posted by: George Orwell


I yam notta crook. A-cha-cha-cha!

Posted by: zombie richard nixon at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (KDq5l)

137 120-
Im moving out of the city, and finding a little acreage, at least enough to support my little family. Just to make sure basics are covered.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (dDD3H)

138 126 I am from Texas and just wrote this f'er! When did Cornyn become one of the RHINOs? Texas sure does NOT need Rhinos!! The Democrats are community organizing like hell down here. They think they are taking Texas! Geez Louise.

---

Just because they have the Fifth Ward of Houston does NOT mean they are taking Texas.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (e0xKF)

139 127 Empire of jeff,

don't worry tiger we'll get 'em next time....

I'm gonna buy them new cleats so when they slide into your balls charging first base you'll be surgically unmanned instead of just mechanically.....

//Maginot GOP

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (LRFds)

140 re: "I wonder what our future officers are thinking."

The same things our present ones are thinking.

"I need me a side piece who looks like Paul Stanley with volleyballs sewn into his chest. ...I mean her chest. A woman's. Allah akbar."

Posted by: oblig. at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (cePv8)

141
:::When you're done burning down the strawmen you might want to actually
read what I wrote and my response to you at comment 55. Or not.:::



Respond to what? "I don't know what you're talking about?"



It's on!
[grabs popcorn]

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (0q2P7)

142 Time to fleece the sheep.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 18, 2013 12:08 PM (Hx5uv)

143 Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:03 PM (LRFds)

Well, yes. At the Federal level is what I meant.

I figure about 20 minutes after whatever President signs that bill into law, every Red State will be debating articles of secession.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 12:09 PM (/eBe8)

144 So this is the result of their retreat? Surrender before the "negotiations" start instead of after?

Posted by: Vic at January 18, 2013 12:09 PM (53z96)

145 121 MikeTheMoose,

Oh I know twitter on the other hand....

Drew likes edicts not response.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:09 PM (LRFds)

146 133
The gatekeepers:
Rodney Alexander (La.)

---

Former Dem who flipped parties right before his second House election.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 12:09 PM (e0xKF)

147 It's like Festivus in January.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 18, 2013 12:10 PM (Hx5uv)

148 The debt ceiling has been raised about 30 times since its inception less than 100 years ago.

That's a pretty solid clue that this vaunted "ceiling" is closer to spray painted tissue paper than pre-stressed concrete slabs.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 12:10 PM (CIjnK)

149 In his Cooper Union address (to which I keep going back again and again in these uncertain times), Lincoln said, in part: "Let us be diverted by none of those sophistical contrivances wherewith we are so industriously plied and belabored - contrivances such as groping for some middle ground between the right and the wrong, vain as the search for a man who should be neither a living man nor a dead man...".

These debt ceiling and sequester debates are, in my view, sophistical contrivances. These Republican members of the House have become so caught up in the mechanics and minutia of the political process that they've forgotten principle and lost sight of the bigger picture. Yes, Obama won the presidential election. That does not, however, mean we of the GOP are obligated to roll over and retreat. A majority vote does not determine right or wrong; it simply expresses the will of the majority, which may be wrong. In a recent article, Charles Krauthammer counseled strategic retreat; that is, in his words, 'Don't force the issue when you don't have the power.'

We're confronted by a stealth socialist takeover of the United States, so I say force the issue. Call them out as the slimy Marxist weasels they are and fight them at every turn, win or lose, and--in Lincoln's words--'Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.'

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 12:11 PM (vtiE6)

150 147 It's like Festivus in January.
---

Orthodox Festivus for those of us still on the Gregorian calendar

Posted by: Buzsaw90 at January 18, 2013 12:12 PM (SO2Q8)

151 "I'd get behind retiring the B-1's. They're a cold war artifact that
don't have any value add beyond what the BUFF has in the kind of
conflicts we'll be in."

I never thought that occupying Afghanistan was useful, and I thought the B-1 development was overhasty in its day. Yet it is instructive that tactical commanders on the ground in Afghanistan have found the B-1 to be of enormous use to them. It is the single most requested air asset in the theater.

I expect it would and will prove equally utilitarian in other more significant conflicts.

But, as noted, if Hagel comes in, both the B-1 and B-52 go out. Pronto.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 18, 2013 12:12 PM (gqT4g)

152 Oh no, Cornyn is wrong.I distinctly remember the Republicans saying they were going to cave when they agreed to raise taxes for nothing in return and keep their powder dry for the debt ceiling fight, where the cuts would come to fruition.

The master of Republican Arms or whoever is responsible for keeping the powder dry needs to be replaced at once.It's always soaking wet and useless.

Posted by: Drider at January 18, 2013 12:12 PM (HaJD9)

153 When did Cornyn become one of the RHINOs?

He's always been a RINO. He was marginally better than Kay Bailey. Marginally.

I hope he gets primaried in '14.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 12:12 PM (/eBe8)

154 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 12:06 PM (CmheR)

I don't mind people disagreeing with what I write, if I did writing here would be a really bad idea. Hell, it's fun to debate.

What I do mind is people ascribing positions to me I don't hold. You claim I've switched my position on the GOP fighting over the debt ceiling. I haven't. It was a bad idea last year and it's a bad idea now.

All I posted was that after talking about fighting on the debt ceiling instead of the fiscal cliff Republicans (not me) have changed their tune.

I don't think they should have said they would fight on the debt ceiling but they did. Whether or not I think it's a good fight to have is irrelevant to commenting on their statements and actions.

If you want to debate why fighting on the debt ceiling is stupid, fine. You're trying to pick a fight with me where I'm supposed to defend something I don't agree with.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:13 PM (AR+tO)

155 147 It's like Festivus in January.

---

Let's see the Feats Of Strength.

I'm not sure that Boehner could beat Bob Dole with his left arm tied behind his back.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 12:13 PM (e0xKF)

156 I actually support this strategy. In a weird way.

I call it the Rorschach contingency. Let the donks raise the debt,but only 3 months at a time. Let the world markets see we're openly planning to fuck them. Let thecapital fly. Let theDow crash. LetCalifornia, NewYork, and Illinois go bankrupt.
And, when the blue masses call out, we whisper "No".

Its like LiB, but more dramatic.We need areboot at the fed level and that will only happenoncewe hit rock bottom. By then we'll be making shit in sweatshops for the Chinese, but hey, jobs.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 18, 2013 12:13 PM (t06LC)

157 129 124 80sbaby,

"force them on the budget"

HAHAHAHAHA you ca't force them on the budget when there's no leverage.


Assuming that is the case, how is it realistic to demand they win the debt ceiling and CR fights?

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 18, 2013 12:13 PM (YjDyJ)

158 Barack - ah - king of the impossible
He's for ev'ry one of us
Stand for ev'ry one of us
He'll save with a mighty hand
Ev'ry man ev'ry woman ev'ry child
With a mighty flash

Posted by: Obama's retirement planner at January 18, 2013 12:13 PM (e8kgV)

159 >>>When did Cornyn become one of the RHINOs?

Where have you been, sweetie. He's always been a RINO.

Posted by: Vizzini at January 18, 2013 12:13 PM (O7Q1u)

160
You all going to sit on your asses tomorrow and talk about gun rights instead of finding the rally near you too?

If my financial situation was different, Teej, I'd up at our state capital with your sign in my hand. As it is, that trip would cost me several hundred dollars I don't have. Sorry I can only be there in spirit.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 18, 2013 12:14 PM (yiIja)

161 148 Purple Avenger,

Yup the difference is we seldom tried to ram it 5 times in 4 years.

Fiat currency is a joke but resumption will be hard as hell.

Hell you know what drew I agree cut, jib, newsletter...!


so do we allow King Putt to have the power to raise the debt ceiling on a whim or do we just eliminate in perpetuity?

Because if we just eliminate it then by Golly I say FREE SHIT for all because then the United States will be openly the international equivalent of David Copperfield or Kriss Angle or however the hell it is spelled and the biggest illusion and mass hallucination ever seen and why would you EVER cut services or the budget or intrusions or federal micromanaging or produce anything when you can have a baseline guaranteed "free' standard of living?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:14 PM (LRFds)

162 Someone tell me again why I should vote for these wimps?

Posted by: egd at January 18, 2013 12:14 PM (XVGEg)

163 Fine. I ask for a tiny smidgen of help from people I readily acknowledge are more witty than I am, and crickets. You all going to sit on your asses tomorrow and talk about gun rights instead of finding the rally near you too?

No rally anywhere near me, teej. And I don't think I'm very witty. The best I'd come up with is "CONSTITUTION, motherfucker!Can you read it?"

But slightly politer

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 18, 2013 12:14 PM (zF6Iw)

164 The master of Republican Arms or whoever is responsible for keeping the powder dry needs to be replaced at once.It's always soaking wet and useless.

---

This is what happens when you let someone with a weak bladder sit on the supplies.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 18, 2013 12:14 PM (e0xKF)

165 "A former George W. Bush Treasury official disagrees with that."

Gee, fucktard. You have debt payments coming up and you know how much they will be. Therefore, when they come due, you make sure you have enough money in your account to pay them, even if that means not paying for other shit you aren't REQUIRED to pay for. I guess you aren't eating lobster and steak every month; you'll have to make due with balogna and ramen noodles, like the rest of the subjects.

Asshole.

More and more I think GWB was the worst thing, prior to Obama, to happen to this country. Then again, the alternatives (Gore and Kerry) were worse than GWB.

Posted by: blindside at January 18, 2013 12:15 PM (x7g7t)

166 Over promising and under delivering is the worst of all possible worlds.

For given outcome X,

If you promise X+n and deliver X, you're a shitheel every time.

If you promise X-n and deliver X, you're a hero every time.

For tiny values of X, the GOP can't even manage the perception of expectation so they look good.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 12:15 PM (CIjnK)

167 My checkbook is open for Cornyn's primary challenger (again).

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at January 18, 2013 12:15 PM (epxV4)

168 It could be Mayan Rebound Festivus.

Posted by: tasker at January 18, 2013 12:15 PM (r2PLg)

169 Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 12:06 PM (m2CN7)

Good fucking lord you're an idiot. I said delaying sequestration was kicking the can down the road. Sequestration and the debt ceiling are not the same, nor are they connected. Try and keep up.

I support letting sequestration happen. Not in 2 months but 3 weeks ago when it was supposed to happen.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:15 PM (AR+tO)

170 Ofcourse.

Like there is any doubt in anyones mind that the republicans are any different from the democrats when it comes to spending like lunatics and fucking this country up the ass till the bitter end.

fucking assholes all of them.

REVOLUTION!

followed by some burning at the stake please - might as well get our money's worth.

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 18, 2013 12:16 PM (+OTLF)

171 More and more I think GWB was the worst thing, prior to Obama, to happen to this country. Then again, the alternatives (Gore and Kerry) were worse than GWB.
Posted by: blindside at January 18, 2013 12:15 PM (x7g7t)

exagerrate much?

Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 12:16 PM (m2CN7)

172 GOP=Democrats

Third party time.

Posted by: TC at January 18, 2013 12:16 PM (vYB+W)

173 Gimme one light, yeah
Gimme one hope, hey
Just gimme, ah
One man one man
One bar one night
One day hey hey
Just gimme gimme gimme gimme
Fried chicken

Posted by: Obama's retirement planner at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (e8kgV)

174 157 80sBaby,

PR wise with the media allowing Barry to harlem Globetrotters the language this fight was doomed anyway probably but no fight or teeth here undermines our ability to argue for ANY stabilization of expenditures let alone King Putt generating more and better spending all while nuking the military.

I should have seen this coming with the fucking pork cannon Sandy bill....

Keep it up GOP I'm watching....you have one issue left at all I rely on you for lose me on that and i am done with you.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (LRFds)

175
They're ALL Rinos. Twix.
It was a setup!

Posted by: George Costanza at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (UWLmm)

176 My checkbook is open for Cornyn's primary challenger (again).

I'd do it but I have no connections and no name recognition. Also- never held any form of political office and have no patience for fools.

So, pretty well, I'd be doomed to lose.

But checkbook? Sure.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (/eBe8)

177 >>>You all going to sit on your asses tomorrow and talk about gun rights instead of finding the rally near you too?

Tomorrow I will be proudly rallying and exercising my second amendment rights...in a goose blind. Hopefully I can convince lots of geese to join my rally.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (0q2P7)

178 what hill are these fucking pussies going to stand and fight on?

and more importantly, when is Debbie Wasserman Schultz scheduled to give the republican weekly address.

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (+OTLF)

179 HALLELUJAH, PRAISE THE LORD Someone is putting a bid in on my Building!!!!!
Oh happy feet

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 12:18 PM (9Bj8R)

180 160
You all going to sit on your asses tomorrow and talk about gun rights instead of finding the rally near you too?

We are gonna go buy another rifle. We were going to the freinds of NRA meeting planning to sign up to help with the local rallies and whatnot , but snow canned the meeting for this month. This election has ended our "we will donate money, that's enough" mentality.

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 12:18 PM (dDD3H)

181 Bangs for her birthday! Michelle
Obama debuts new blunt hairstyle
as she turns 49

When I first saw this headline on Lucianne, I thought it said "Bongs"...

Posted by: Cricket at January 18, 2013 12:18 PM (DrC22)

182 >>>what hill are these fucking pussies going to stand and fight on?

That's easy. Their re-election campaign.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 12:18 PM (0q2P7)

183 The Metaphorical Congress: "Rather than stopping the car by using the brakes, we agree with Democrats that the best course of action is to jam down the accelerator and head straight for the concrete bridge abutment."

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (qwK3S)

184 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (/eBe

For you, an extra zero over what I normally donate.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (epxV4)

185 I keep thinking of this every time we get abused by the GOP

http://tinyurl.com/b67uvs2


Posted by: Vizzini at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (O7Q1u)

186 Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:15 PM (AR+tO)

No monkey gimp, you said that the debt ceiling fight is a losing battle but you complain that the the Republicans aren't using the debt ceiling fight to leverage any other benefits.

Let's be honest, the GOP is going to cave on the debt ceiling and get nothing for it. (Your words not mine)

Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (m2CN7)

187 Right Drew if we are not willing to fight hard for debt ceilings we must obviously be able to print as much 90% self bought by the fed money as we can.....

if that's the case why have cuts at all?

Sequestration is just political cover for Obama to fuck the Military while he still has us getting shot at dude.

If we're going to keep pretending that there is no danger or rather not enough danger to present a case to America on the debt why not pretend we are a booming economy like the media does?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (LRFds)

188
damned hamsters.

Posted by: George Costanza at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (UWLmm)

189 The next bipartisan bill will be for $85 billion in chocolate and a new bike for everyone in Congress.
The Dems have agreed to it as long as the GOP introduces the new gun confiscation bill next.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (+paCV)

190 when it burns it's going to stink......so be prepared

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 12:20 PM (PhI+e)

191 So, pretty well, I'd be doomed to lose.

Says who, your posts here are smarter than most of the shit we hear from pols. Hit it, whats the worst that can happen? If nothing else you might scare him further to the right

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 12:20 PM (dDD3H)

192 I'm not sure that Boehner could beat Bob Dole with his left arm tied behind his back.

Bob Dole says Bob Dole has something mighty stiff that Bob Dole could use to beat up Boehner or anyone else.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at January 18, 2013 12:20 PM (Lxw+T)

193
There are a lot of differences...now...from what was going on in the 90's when Clinton shut down the government, and blamed it on Gingrich.

Gas prices were low.
People had jobs.
The economy was doing pretty darn well.

Clinton got away with blaming the shutdown on the Republicans, because there was no alternative media screaming the Truth about it.

Also...the R's held both houses of congress back then.

It's very different now.
Shut it down.
Let the American people see all those 'Non-essential personel' being sent home, and not being missed.

Posted by: wheatie at January 18, 2013 12:20 PM (fH4X9)

194 Their re-election campaign.

Every Republican primary challenger should just use the same campaign strategy- a list of all the Promises to "fight" Republicans used, then the outcome (ObamaCare passing, debt ceiling, etc.) with the word "Failure" in red.

The end of every commercial should be, "Why vote for a record of failure?"

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 12:20 PM (/eBe8)

195 seriously. I completely understand why the french used Guillotines during their revolutions.

even if the revolution didnt turn out right, they at least term limited a few of those cunts for real.

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 18, 2013 12:20 PM (+OTLF)

196 The Republican strategy should be pretty clear by now.

Think of it from their point of view.Last election the POTUS won a second term on a piss poor record and raising taxes.The conservative base didn't show up as well as the libertarian crowd.
The Republican leaders looked at this and have decided on the safest course of action for "them".

Let Obama have everything he wants and then do their best to blame him for everything to get reelected.
The beautiful effect of this strategy is that it won't work anymore.The republican incumbents, as far as I'm concerned will be bounced for their complicit inaction.I'll vote against every one of them when reelection rolls around, no prisoners.

Posted by: Drider at January 18, 2013 12:20 PM (HaJD9)

197 149 We're confronted by a stealth socialist takeover of the United States,
so I say force the issue. Call them out as the slimy Marxist weasels
they are and fight them at every turn...


What does "fight them at every turn" mean in this instance? In other words, what specifically should be their plan? E.g., force the Senate to pass a budget?

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 18, 2013 12:21 PM (YjDyJ)

198 For you, an extra zero over what I normally donate.

WooHoo! $50 bucks! What a war-chest!

(Kidding). Heck, convince enough people and I'll consider it. Just so I can call John Cornyn a loser to his face.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 12:22 PM (/eBe8)

199
Heres a thought, instead of spending cuts that amount to a billion
dollars a year, come up with some cuts that amount to say 750 to 1
trillion that occur THIS year.


Heh. Good one. I would like them to cut $1. Just spend one dollar less this year.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (p/cQy)

200 Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 12:19 PM (m2CN7)

Saying the GOP is going to cave and get nothing for it is simply a description of reality.

You know they raised the debt ceiling last time and got nothing for it, right?

The fact that you think "monkey gimp" is some sort of stinging rebuke is all I need to know about your inability to understand an argument.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (AR+tO)

201 I would like someone else to do what I think should be done. I am a bit busy myself right now.

Posted by: occam at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (nXFLL)

202 Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 18, 2013 12:18 PM (9Bj8R)

If you close up shop and move that means I will be the only conservative Jew in Northern NJ.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (GsoHv)

203 There is history here. The Gingrich Revolution ran aground when it tried
to govern from Congress, losing badly to President Clinton over
government shutdowns.
============
Absolutely and completely fucking wrong. The GOP --GAINED-- 2 seats in the Senate after the shutdown. And only lost 8 in the House. Clinton--contrary to popular wisdom --LOST-- popularity during the shutdown. It was only after he was able to position himself as ending it that he gained.

Yes, they lost the PR war but won among the base. And we got Clinton to make concessions afterward.

Fuck you, Kraut and your "Surrender toward Victory" advice.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (imtbm)

204 (Kidding). Heck, convince enough people and I'll consider it. Just so I can call John Cornyn a loser to his face.

Call him a cock-sucker on national news and I will kick in 200.00

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (dDD3H)

205 Rush: Hooowan Williams says pro-2nd Amendment views are racist. Has audio of other media progtards saying things to the same effect.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (1FLBb)

206 Why is the debt ceiling fight a "sure loser"? I thought that was one of the few areas the GOP polled favorably on? Even low info voters understand "when you're deep in debt don't pile on more debt".

Posted by: yinzer at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (/Mla1)

207 Bring on a viable 3rd party who is Tea Party based...

OH Don't Tease Me....

Posted by: Paladin at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (Ks5+T)

208 :::Let's be honest, the GOP is going to cave on the debt ceiling and get nothing for it. The real question is, will they actually let sequestration (you know the spending cuts the "won" in the last debt fight) happen or will they kick it down the road again to the next hill they will retreat from, the Continuing Resolution?

Let's put it this way...that clanking sound you here is a can being kicked down a road.

Aside from getting rolled on everything the GOP's biggest problem is they look like idiots in the process. If you can't win fights, stop saying you want to fight and think you'll win.::::

Ok, I totally see where I was wrong. Here it looks like you are scorning the GOP for not fighting ***hard enough*** on not raising the debt ceiling and retreating from confronting Obama and the Democrats, when what you're ***actually saying*** is that they should not fight AT ALL, on ANYTHING, because fighting and losing makes you look like an ineffectual loser, while tucking your dick and balls between your legs and getting shitkicked on every issue without so much as a whimper is IN FACT the path to electoral success and compliant with The Way Of Ronald.

Boy, do I have egg on my face.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (CmheR)

209 Problem is the Republicans. We must end them. We made a good start in 2010, now we need to be very loudly working toward replacing any R that isn't fighting Obama and the D's. No surrender, no retreat must be the motto and replace any of the bastards who even consider 'bipartisanship', 'compromise' or any of the codewords for apeasement on things that cannot be compromised. Reality can't be compromised with, spending a trillion dollars a year we don't have isn't something to negotiate about, it has to be seen as what it is, so insane that ridicule is the only sane response.

Get a majority of the Rs, replace Boner. Nothing less will do for a plan. And yes, at this point burning isn't something we have a choice about anymore. All that is left is surviving the burn and making damned sure we see to it every prog and taker gets their shit burned right down to the ground in what is coming.

Democrat Delenda Est.

Posted by: John Morris at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (YhRJW)

210 Heh. Good one. I would like them to cut $1. Just spend one dollar less this year.

Seriously.

Heck. If they just froze the budget (that is: no increase in spending) we'd have a balanced budget in not very long. Well, longer now because of flat GDP, but you get the point.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (/eBe8)

211 >>>For tiny values of X, the GOP can't even manage the perception of expectation so they look good.

They are negotiating on our spines not theirs. Knowing that Obama will always give them less than what they promise us (Just to make them look bad) and since they will always fold up like a cheap $10 tent in a blizzard, it makes no sense not to cut us in fully on the negotiation. We are the only ones at the table who will say FU to TFG. Our avarice is the only thing Rs can bring to bear because they are pussies.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Back From Beyond at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (0q2P7)

212 Cornyn is Kay Bailey Hutchison lite. Time to primary out Cornyn. I'm sure soon to be senior TX senator Cruz can give us a name of a conservative.

Posted by: dogfish at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (N2yhW)

213 201
I would like someone else to do what I think should be done. I am a bit busy myself right now.


Posted by: occam at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (nXFLL)
cut the crap buddy.

Posted by: Razor at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (+OTLF)

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 18, 2013 12:25 PM (+OTLF)

215 The HeavyDebt Championship of the World fight:

And in this corner, wearing the blue trunks, is Mongo the Horse-Puncher. And in this corner, wearing the red trunks, is Pee Wee Herman. And what's he doing? Why isn't he wearing his boxing gloves? And why are his hands down his trunks? Stop that, Pee Wee, stop it!

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 18, 2013 12:25 PM (Hx5uv)

216 not ready to unsock

wondering who you are.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 12:25 PM (PhI+e)

217
I've had enough of bein' trodden on
My passive days are gonna be long gone
If you slap one cheek, well, I ain't gonna turn the other

Life is for the living
Takers never giving

Fooling no one but ourselves
Good is dying

Here comes the end
Here comes the end of the world

Posted by: Obama's retirement planner at January 18, 2013 12:25 PM (e8kgV)

218 What does "fight them at every turn" mean in this instance? In other words, what specifically should be their plan? E.g., force the Senate to pass a budget?
Posted by: 80sBaby at January 18, 2013 12:21 PM (YjDyJ)

Precisely: force the Senate to pass a budget. They've been breaking the law for years now. Stop all movement in the House until a budget is passed. Stop everything. Call attention to the sheer lawlessness of it. Get in front of cameras every day and force the media to address the issue. Talk about the Senate budget issue no matter the subject.

Pick a fight and make them come to the ground you pick.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 12:25 PM (vtiE6)

219 Of course the GOP will cave.

What they can do is refuse to increase the debt ceiling, and invite the president to present a budget that will allow us to live within our means.

And then state unequivocally that they will vote for that budget.

But they won't.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 18, 2013 12:26 PM (GsoHv)

220 199 Guy Mohawk,


I'm F Chuck Tard the GOP's vicious cut of a dollar killed 325,000 baby seals and a dozen cute newborns....back after this.

//NBC Nudes

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:26 PM (LRFds)

221 178 what hill are these fucking pussies going to stand and fight on?

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 18, 2013 12:17 PM (+OTLF)
---

Milton Friedman has your answer...

http://youtu.be/ac9j15eig_w

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 18, 2013 12:26 PM (1FLBb)

222
Seriously, support the LP.
Is this a joke? They ran two Republican retreads the last two presidential cycles. Why would you vote for a party that ran failed candidates from another party that you claim is useless?

Posted by: Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 at January 18, 2013 12:26 PM (Ph479)

223 Yes, they lost the PR war but won among the base. And we got Clinton to make concessions afterward.

I will second that, this "shut down" was the thing that really brought me to the republicans. It showed a unified front of smart conservative thinking. Reagan was super awesome, but he was one man. Newt did an incredible job as a statesman. He was also a very good tactician I would say. He stopped Hillary Care

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 12:26 PM (dDD3H)

224 ok...i'm done....the weekend begins now.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 12:27 PM (PhI+e)

225 Bring on a viable 3rd party who is Tea Party based...

Not a third party. A replacement party.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 18, 2013 12:27 PM (GBXon)

226 Rush: Hooowan Williams says pro-2nd Amendment views are racist. Has
audio of other media progtards saying things to the same effect.

***

Hey, we're trying to lose the debt crisis now. We'll lose the gun control crisis later.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 18, 2013 12:27 PM (Hx5uv)

227 Seriously, support the LP.

I wish they could if they could demonstrate the ability to be a serious party.

Seriously

Posted by: gigg at January 18, 2013 12:27 PM (dDD3H)

228 174 157 PR wise with the media allowing Barry to harlem Globetrotters the language this fight was doomed anyway probably but no fight or teeth here undermines our ability to argue for ANY stabilization of expenditures let alone King Putt generating more and better spending all while nuking the military.

So what would you specifically advise them to do?

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 18, 2013 12:28 PM (YjDyJ)

229 The fact that you think "monkey gimp" is some sort of stinging rebuke is all I need to know about your inability to understand an argument.
Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:23 PM (AR+tO)

No its just simply a response to your 'idiot' rebuke. And if you want to defend your thoughts you should learn how to write them better.

Posted by: polynikes at January 18, 2013 12:28 PM (m2CN7)

230 208 EoJ,

if you miss the half twist in the air he does during the backflip you can't see that he spun completely around.

I translated it as "the GOP suckd, the GOP still sucks, the GOP will go on sucking then VICTORY!"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:28 PM (LRFds)

231 227 gigg,

I am not hanging with the anti-semitic troofer Luap Nor cult...

I'll just work on what I can earn.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:30 PM (LRFds)

232 And this is why it will burn.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 12:31 PM (CmheR)

233 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 12:24 PM (CmheR)

How many times are you going to read that and not understand it?

I specifically said the question was will the put off sequestration. The kicking the can is the answer...yes they will put sequestration off.

Sequestration is SEPARATE from the debt ceiling.

The GOP got rolled on the fiscal cliff, right? We agree on that much, yes? THEY were the ones who said, don't worry we'll fight on the debt and are now backing away from it.

I didn't take them to task for not fighting on the debt. I took them to task for promising a fight and then gettting rolled over. It's a terrible message. If you can't win the policy fight, don't look do everything you can to look like an idiot in the process..

At not point did I write, "as a matter of policy and politics the GOP should fight over the debt ceiling". You keep insisting that I did. I didn't.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:31 PM (AR+tO)

234 I wish the GOP wold stop telling us they want to 'do [good] stuff' when in office. Just admit you want a job spending money.

Stop blowing smoke up my arse.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 12:32 PM (X/+QT)

235 Here's a patented sven pick me up....

SMOD let you down?

We can always hope for Yellowstone to come through for us....

http://youtu.be/xsb_g2jx5Qc

MegaDisasters
Yellowstone Eruption

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:32 PM (LRFds)

236 Folks, don't worry about it.

We have top men working on it. Top. Men.


Seriously, this is the spineless fuckers agenda at their retreat this weekend:

- Polling Session ("What Happened and Where Are We Now?"), featuring Dave Winston (who produced Boehner's poll which suggested that cuts-for-a-debt-limit-hike were popular), Kellyanne Conway, and the Tarrance Group's David Sackett.


- What is the Role of the Republican Majority in the 113th Congress? with Bill Kristol and the influential-among-conservatives WSJ columnist Kim Strassel.


- American Trends -- How Is America Changing?, with election prognosticator Charlie Cook.


- Who Speaks for Middle America?, with National Review's Kate O'Berine and Ramesh Ponnuru, and EPPC's Jim Capretta


- How to Communicate Principles in Today's Media Environment, with Ari Fleischer, Frank Luntz, and onetime Bachmann/Romney debate coach Brett O'Donnell.


- Common Ethics Pitfalls, with two attorneys from Wiley Rein LLP.


- Successful Communication with Minorities and Women, with a female moderator (Rachel Campos-Duffy), a female consultant (Ana Navarro), a female congressman (Rep. Jaime Herrera Buetler), and three congressmen who are neithor female nor minorities: Rep. Adam Kinzinger, Rep. Scott Rigell, and Rep. Frank Wolf.

Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 12:33 PM (fWAjv)

237 It is the single most requested air asset in the theater

Yea, that's because its fast. When you make the call it'll be there quicker than a 52. Using the B-1 as a close support aircraft is a grotesque misapplication of capability that puts very expensive assets at risk taking out targets that could be zapped with much cheaper systems.

We should be looking at heavier lift capability drones that could drop JDAM's. You could probably have a gaggle of a hundred of them in the air for the cost of a single B-1 mission.

The B-1's avionics are getting long in the tooth too. I know the first ones used the same archaic AP-101 based FBW stuff that the Shuttle used (only 2X redundancy rather than the Shuttle's 4X+BFS though)

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 12:34 PM (CIjnK)

238 232 EoJ,

It's been burning since either FDR or LBJ we just had so much industry, economic advantage, and inertia we weren't gagging on the smoke....

"Let it Burn" is a misnomer, "stop fighting the fire" and prepare.

Let them wreck it and try to get away from it.

There are no adults in DC who will demand we wean away the welfare state and pay our fucking bills.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:34 PM (LRFds)

239 Let's put it this way...that clanking sound you here is a can being kicked down a road.

It's certainly not ball clanking together.

Posted by: toby928© stabs at thee from hell's heart at January 18, 2013 12:35 PM (evdj2)

240 237 PA,

The B-1 was delayed so long its mission was gone.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:35 PM (LRFds)

241 Need to run these pussiedfied (R) out of Congress... find some people like Rubio, West and Cruz that have the balls to tell Preezy Choomer to go fuck himself on a regular basis.

We are months or even days away from financially shitting the bed because of this "kicking the can" mentality and the endless CR process. The Donks and emasculated GOP reps in Congress are all in it for themselves... and are wanting to see us get dored in the squeakhole with a 2x4 when the proverbial shit hits the fan.

I say let it burn... like Chernobyl x1000....

Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at January 18, 2013 12:36 PM (Jls4P)

242 The worst thing about the debt ceiling is the cottage cheese. That cottage cheese paint looks awful. You would think for a few trillion we could at least get gilded crown molding and a chandelier, but no.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at January 18, 2013 12:36 PM (Lxw+T)

243 Without a budget, I'm not sure how "we" have incurred any obligations.

Posted by: toby928© stabs at thee from hell's heart at January 18, 2013 12:36 PM (evdj2)

244 since we don't have a federal budget. anymore, is it any wonder that the "debt ceiling" has been employed to fulfill that function?

Posted by: steve at January 18, 2013 12:37 PM (5iuEW)

245 Stay back or the party gets it!

Posted by: Sheriff John at January 18, 2013 12:38 PM (evdj2)

246 220 80sBaby,

What would I tell them to do?

http://youtu.be/8YC7nx6i4Zo

Cromwell's Speech to Parliament

My people followed this man power is no excuse for wastrel spending, and good decent men should not be beholden to raise those who do not work for gain.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:38 PM (LRFds)

247 This is all BS anyway. The story from the beginning, at the threat of primary challenge to every Republican, should have been "We are responsible partners in government, and we stand prepared to work with Senator Reid and PResident Obama and we can not imagine a scenario in which working together we can not reach an agreement." You want to make it clear that both parties are responsible for a shut down.

Posted by: Andy T at January 18, 2013 12:38 PM (lG2dn)

248 Posted by: RWC at January 18, 2013 12:33 PM (fWAjv)


No thanks. I'd rather spend a weekend retreat watching Chaz Bono in The Vagina Monologues.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows where thou concealest thy þr0n at January 18, 2013 12:39 PM (Lxw+T)

249 polynikes - You mentioned something about the stripper newsperson in an earlier thread. And while this debt stuff is important I guess, I had questions.

1. Was it the one from houston?
2. Stories. Please elaborate.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 18, 2013 12:39 PM (t06LC)

250 The B-1 was delayed so long its mission was gone.

The Rockwell division that built them is gone too. Handed off maintenance is never the same as the guys who created it. Too much institutional knowledge gets lost in those kind of handovers.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 18, 2013 12:39 PM (CIjnK)

251 244 steve,

correct and now this the last control from total debauchery is being called "onerous" they are going to spend our nation into ruin as quick as humanly possible and people like Drew think if the American voter is too stupid to grasp that King Putt is lying on the nature of the debt ceiling that they will force him to rein in his orgy of graft and breads and circuses?

LET IT BURN

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:40 PM (LRFds)

252 Dear Tony,
Please define "won't work". Here's a novel idea. Pay as you go. Does it mean some checks will come the third week? Why yes they will! Will that cause the sun to no longer rise in the east?

Posted by: Duhgee at January 18, 2013 12:40 PM (v7jAa)

253 Wait, i thought the whole point of agreeing to the tax hikes and separating them from the debt ceiling was so that the republicans would now have leverage and could get the spending cuts. Why, it's almost like they're completely full of shit and think people are dumbasses that won't remember what happened a couple of months ago or something. Also, fuck politicians and their worthless government.

Posted by: booger at January 18, 2013 12:41 PM (HI6wa)

254 You guys are finally starting to get it.....like I have been telling you....the Republicans and Democrats are the same....no difference.....its The System we have to fight...the Elites who perpetuate a system FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT ... the revolving door between elected office, lobbyist, corporation ....

Posted by: Walter at January 18, 2013 12:41 PM (a+BXY)

255 I am not hanging with the anti-semitic troofer Luap Nor cult...I'll just work on what I can earn.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:30 PM (LRFds)

I notice Rand Paul is publicly maintaining just enough hostility to Israel to keep his father's true believers from thinking he's sold out to the evil Jewish Bankers CONTROLLED by the Rothschilds and the Illuminati and Bildersburgerswho are ALSO I swear to God conducting SECRET spider-goat DNA hybridization experiments and exercising MASS MIND CONTROL via water fluoridation GET THESE SECRET GOVERNMENT RADIO WAVES OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!!

Sorry, I was channelling the Libertarian Party's secret mindwave communications band. All better now.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 12:41 PM (vtiE6)

256 ::::How many times are you going to read that and not understand it?

I specifically said the question was will the put off sequestration. The kicking the can is the answer...yes they will put sequestration off.

Sequestration is SEPARATE from the debt ceiling.::::

I did not mention, allude to, or type the word "sequestration."

By the way, is this where I can accuse you of smoking strawmen or whatever the saying is? I don't know, it's just seems like such a weak and embarrassing "dig" to use.

I know self-reflection isn't your thing. That's why you think the issue is the debt ceiling or sequestration. It isn't. It's *you.*

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 12:42 PM (CmheR)

257 255 troyriser,

careful you might get stuck....I was licking my gold Cadbury Choco bar covering the other day trying to figure those fuckheads out.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:43 PM (LRFds)

258 LiFB

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 18, 2013 12:43 PM (evdj2)

259
This must be that whimper I've heard about for years.


The one signifying the death of America.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 18, 2013 12:45 PM (jTKU5)

260 Regarding the impending war/revolution, I've been spending my time thinking more about 'the day after'. What will the ruling body(s) look like, will there be an 'American common law' to build upon like English common law to the colonies.

However, I now have a thought about legitimacy - and levels thereof.

In the Rev War, there were elected officials and state legislatures voting for revolution. In the upcoming war, is there any elected body which will join with the people for the revolution?

If not, the people will have to overthrow both the federal AND state gov'ts to establish a new legitimacy. This just doubled the effort required, methinks. Or the people have to win the state govts (red states only?) and overthrow the fed.

Then again, as the prof says, "He’ll share them when the times comes . . . or you’ve misjudged the moment in history."

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 12:46 PM (X/+QT)

261 259 Meremortal,

You can tell who is who based on what you hear near them...a whimper a decent soul, silence and idiot, and giggles....a democrat

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:46 PM (LRFds)

262 Re 260, In other words, are we going to have a Revolution or a Civil War?

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 12:46 PM (X/+QT)

263 @262

War of secession.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 18, 2013 12:47 PM (t06LC)

264 260 Tonic Dog,

That case should be being made to the State Houses themselves, they can try to divorce their state from this Jack Kevorkian suicide machine we're strapped to and maintain some form of order, or watch the whole fall into ruin together and our society fade totally in time.

A government that is dead broke can only enforce its will through violence or the threat of violence when the bottom falls out the man with rice is king.

The government will attempt to inflict its will with force losing the moral cover that all organized power by our founding MUST have through popular will.

This is a supreme danger, the trust and deference that have been taken for granted by our leaders for most of American history will be gone.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:49 PM (LRFds)

265 12
Let's put it this way...that clanking sound you here is a can being kicked down a road.

Well, it certainly isn't the GOP's balls.


Posted by: Lt. JG Perkytits at January 18, 2013 11:41 AM (RD7QR)

Threadwinner.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at January 18, 2013 12:50 PM (2VCZA)

266
Fuck you Walter.

Posted by: The Dude Lebowski at January 18, 2013 12:50 PM (p/cQy)

267 War of secession.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 18, 2013 12:47 PM (t06LC)


That would imply that the USA would continue in some diminished form and a new, separate nation would come about. Suboptimal, but possible. I guess I would throw that in the civil war bucket.

Hmm, I need to think about terms (and, again, whether The People or The States are the instigators).

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 12:51 PM (X/+QT)

268 as Reagan once said we're always one generation away from tyranny....

well congrats Boomers I think Genx/The Millenials being willfully taught bullshit about our system and instead that we suck is about to bear fruit.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:51 PM (LRFds)

269 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 18, 2013 12:42 PM (CmheR)

You're right. I was focusing on the wrong issue. I thought you were trying to make a serious point. My bad.

I gather I annoyed you at some point last year during the debt hike and you finally found the time to fight back or something. Honesty I don't remember it but clearly it's been festering in you for over a year.

I hope getting it out of your system makes you feel better and you can move on with your life.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 18, 2013 12:51 PM (AR+tO)

270 264, guess some state needs to pick a fight (over taxes or whatnot)...and then control the media/propaganda.

Hmm, I keep coming back to the point that 'we' had better have some access/control over media opinions.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 12:53 PM (X/+QT)

271 267 Tonic Dog,

This is the end result of the democrat and media's games during the war....

they sides openly with the opfor worrying more about flushed Korans than the beheadings and they used rage and lies to gain total power and then altered the nature of our relationship to government totally and on a whim with minimal forethought using a law erecting a system that is still having "law" written for it by unelected assholes destroying the sanctity of self as we had understood it.

There is not one nation, may never have been one nation in my lifetime and I will never forgive them.

Something has got to give, and the fucking donks will not even admit what they have done.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:55 PM (LRFds)

272 You can tell who is who based on what you hear near them...a whimper a decent soul, silence and idiot, and giggles....a democrat
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 12:46 PM (LRFds)Sven, I know. And talk of arms is silly, it's not going to happen. It's amazing that no one on the side of this idiotic fiscal destruction even attempts to make a case for how the welfare state will be sustained without a fiscal collapse. And they aren't called on it by the "loyalopposition" either.The whole thing is strange.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 18, 2013 12:58 PM (jTKU5)

273 It's probably obvious to all that both parties have decided that the hidden tax of inflation will be the plan for dealing with our unsustainable debt load.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 18, 2013 01:02 PM (QupBk)

274 263, coup?

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2013 01:02 PM (EYbqR)

275 272 meremortal,

arms is not foolish it is inevitable I suspect unless a majority of those that see the train shrug and count on an orange revolution in 80 years when we are totally fucked by letting never maturing children play "create a dream society for the insane asylum" and dying quietly waiting on the grandkids and great grandkids to refire the American experiment.

I'm not, but I am not gonna throw my life away....

I'll run to as much freedom as is left in the world analyze what I can do to maintain the notion of personal freedom in the Lockeian sense and become a "new jew" before I casually suck Marx's dick and let Obama and Pelosi try to turn this country into a theme park ran by the Chicago mafia.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:03 PM (LRFds)

276 The key tolarge significant spending cuts is much more substantial automatic increases from the baseline. By factoring in automatic growth of say 20 %, if they cuts spending by only increasing it by 10 % they could actually increase spending substantially whileabsolutely slashing it unmercifully, making everyone happy and having a tremendous impact,on the deficit and long term debt historic even if you don't count Obama's increases thus far.. It's called the art of compromise, for the children.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at January 18, 2013 01:04 PM (VLifP)

277 The best idea I've heard in regard to this "debt crisis" is for the Republicans to pass a bill that mandates the actual revenue the federal government receives (roughly 2.2 trillion per year) to pay for interest on the debt, social security, medicare, the military and let Obama deal with the rest. Then cut ads and make speeches making sure that the low information voters know that the main benefits are not going to be shutdown. Then sit back and let the Dems do some negotiating. And of course it is going to be difficult, everything important is difficult.

Ok the paragraph above is a phantasy, it is what should happen. What is actually going to happen is that the Republican Party has reverted to pre-1960's dhimmitude and are perfectly happy with that role so they are going to fold like a cheap camera at every single opportunity. William F. Buckley and crew had an idea in the 50's that they would just be a revenant like the monks were during the middle ages.

So everyone get ready for a century of Marxism and maybe in 2200 there will be a chance for freedom.



Posted by: Harold at January 18, 2013 01:04 PM (JKNLp)

278 273 Toby 928th,

Which means power en perpetual for the donks b/c they still get to demagogue.

No we already have inflation, and the left are controlling food costs in a negative manner.

They are wrecking this machine on purpose and I will not let them get away with it blameless.

If they would leave the fucking mimum wage alone, get the hell out of the way of the capitalist the economy would recover on its own.

They are handcuffing, ballgagging, and blinding capitalism and kicking the shit out of it and then mocking its inability to fight.

I hate the donks but I am really starting to hate the GOP and wondering why the will not make the case that freedom works better than free shit.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:06 PM (LRFds)

279 "Regarding the impending war/revolution, I've been spending my time thinking more about 'the day after'. What will the ruling body(s) look like, will there be an 'American common law' to build upon like English common law to the colonies..."
Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 12:46 PM (X/+QT)

"Ruling body(s)"? Oh, there would be bodies all right. Talk like this reminds me of Sherman's letter to a seccessionist friend just prior to the outbreak of the Civil War:

"...This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing!"

So please stop making mini-movies in your head about possible forms of government should our political differences escalate from ballots to bullets. Americans are never so vicious or adept at killing as when we're killing each other. Such a terrible outcome is to be avoided unless and until it can no longer be avoided.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 01:07 PM (vtiE6)

280 Thanks sven, we'll see.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at January 18, 2013 01:09 PM (jTKU5)

281 What do you mean "look like idiots?"

Posted by: GaryS at January 18, 2013 01:10 PM (dcfiw)

282
So the takeaway from this is that the GOP's "hill to die on" is that there IS NO hill to die on.

Understand that and put your minds to ease. Logic will tell you where this ends. So you may prepare accordingly.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 18, 2013 01:15 PM (SAMxH)

283 Tonicdog @ 262: I know the progs have confused the issue but remember that a Civil War is when two factions fight over the levers of power in a nation state, a war of succession or independence is when one or more subparts of a nation state fight for the right to form an independent nation state.

Of course the definition above really isn't debatable but we have been carefully trained to doublethink that the 'Civil War' was one and most certainly not the 'War for Southern Independence" because that would totally hose 'the narrative.' Because of that a lot of people get confused on the issue and use the wrong word, because they are doublethinking instead of clearly thinking. Free yer mind dude, the progs are living in it rent free.

And since I see troyriser is in this thread we will now hear from our resident SPLC minder with the talking point of succession == racism in a couple of minutes.

Posted by: John Morris at January 18, 2013 01:15 PM (YhRJW)

284 279 TroyRiser,

He then laid out his reasons why he felt Union victory was in all likelihood inevitable.

I can do that for you Troy should you like.

I don't know what will happen, I am sincere in believing that the least painful outcome would be a peaceful secession b/c the system as it is currently rendered cannot go on if the laws of economics means anything.

Troy they are laws not suggestions and a bunch of dope smoking OW$ idiots do not get to wish them away without a LOT of pain being involved.

For example:

A comet hits Oz starting a fight against a potential ELE natural catastrophe, guess what you get a defeacto "debt jubilee" like they keep braying about.

They get to walk away from their school debt, a debt by the way which empowered the economy of a big part of the democrat donation base the schools have spent the money the banks lent it ostensibly from pools of people surrendering their purchasing power for future gain, the feds backed it....

Some of us refused to go party for 4 years on a big credit card and actually gasp paid for their education......so these deadbeats get to skate and everyone else loses best case scenario there is a serious social schism

Revolution civil war etc etc etc

Yeah it all sucks, you know what wouldn't suck?

If Barack Obama looked in the mirror put away the bullshit he learned in the classes I am not allowed to see that he took and told his party "we need to grow up on these points, they will give on these points and we will grow and stabilize this economy."

That of course being as big a fantasy as my dick growing 2 extra feet forgets that Barack Obama's goals are not simply different from my goals as a free market capitalist, or the majority of Americans wanting a healthy vibrant economy on a hybrid system, but in fact different from ANY American who takes pride in their nation from anything but a radical left perspective.

regards,
sven

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:19 PM (LRFds)

285 And since I see troyriser is in this thread we will now hear from our resident SPLC minder with the talking point of succession == racism in a couple of minutes.
Posted by: John Morris at January 18, 2013 01:15 PM (YhRJW)

You neo-confederate types are imagining some kind of vindication for your beloved South should you promote a modern-day seccession movement. Thing is, this is a battle of ideas transcending state boundaries; i.e., constitutional first principles vs. what Ace calls 'transnational socialism'.

Use the fucking slave-owning Confederacy as your inspiration and failure will soon follow,guaranteed. No one worth having would join such a movement.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 01:23 PM (vtiE6)

286 18 can we all agree the rino's are the problem?
Posted by: phoenixgirl at work & a member of NRA at January 18, 2013 11:42 AM (PhI+e)

No. As Gabe so eloquently put it, the real problems are 'teh conservatives' and 't3h Tearrorists'.

'Enemies Foreign and Domestic' is more plausible by the day.

Posted by: blindside at January 18, 2013 01:24 PM (x7g7t)

287 285 Troyriser,

Are the black roughnecks in DeRidder Louisiana I've done taxes for neoConfederates for being pissed off at Maximum leader?

This ain't about slavery from our end Troy it is about slavery from YOUR end debauching the currency to keep free shit and the pork cannon going to support two ponzi systems built on socialist lies is slavery sport.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:31 PM (LRFds)

288 286 Blindside,

If Obama calls you a domestic enemy it probably means you love America.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:31 PM (LRFds)

289

Charles M. Shultz was a political genius.

Posted by: nip at January 18, 2013 01:32 PM (11Tdq)

290 285
And since I see troyriser is in this thread we will now hear from our
resident SPLC minder with the talking point of succession == racism in a
couple of minutes.

Posted by: John Morris at January 18, 2013 01:15 PM (YhRJW)



------------------------

You neo-confederate types .....

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 01:23 PM (vtiE6)


That was quick.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 01:32 PM (X/+QT)

291 I get your point, Sven. My point is that it sounds/reads as if some people are actually wishing for (still relatively peaceful) political conflicts in this country to escalate into a shooting war, which--if it happens--is bound to be even more vicious andawful than the one fought in the 19th Century.Those who wishfor such a thing don't know what they're wishing for.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 01:34 PM (vtiE6)

292 290 Tonic Dog,

well it definitely reduced the dancing and went straight to fucking....and I'm glad as i age I value pre foreplay less and less.

Better a neo-confederate than a neo-Bolzhevik

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:34 PM (LRFds)

293 That was quick.
Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 18, 2013 01:32 PM (X/+QT)

That was true. I know where John Morris stands on certain issues.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 01:35 PM (vtiE6)

294 Speaking of secession, the Republicans are beginning to remind me of the Confederate Army's performance facing Sherman in Georgia. Fight, lose, retreat, repeat as needed. All the while Obama's minions are torching our institutions and economy. From time to time, expect Republicans join in the pillaging (see the Sandy bill vote). I think that essentially the elites of both parties know systematic failure is coming but are either living for the present or living in denial.

I believe that the match is lit for the torching of our republic and it will happen, the only question is when and what happens after the fire.


Posted by: wg at January 18, 2013 01:36 PM (c60dJ)

295 Better a neo-confederate than a neo-Bolzhevik
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:34 PM (LRFds)

How about 'patriot'. Seems to separate the wheat from the chaff fairly well, without all of those fucked-up connotations.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 01:36 PM (vtiE6)

296 295 troyriser,

Yeah about that....

what does "patriot" mean to you bud?

I did not swear loyalty to the flag, the soil, etc etc I swore it the US Constitution and promised only to follow the lawful orders of my CinC when I was in.

The party of overt communist traitors is now breaking out the "my country right or wrong" card were the stakes less high I'd spend more time laughing at them.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:49 PM (LRFds)

297 294 WG,

well as long as Obama is careful to keep our current flag maybe only adding his nice bust to it we are expected to be thrilled with it....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:50 PM (LRFds)

298 The GOP could try walking out of the MFM swamp.

It could try communicating only through radio and the intertubes.

I would love to see the effect of no GOP folks on TV at all. Not one.

In addition they could could tell us the truth. No more bullshit.

If you don't like where the train is going, pull the cord.

Posted by: eman at January 18, 2013 01:50 PM (tBnjP)

299 298 eman,

yeah well a lot of us here have been saying that.....

I think they like the destination and are just reducing speed a little.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:56 PM (LRFds)

300 "Over promising and under delivering is the worst of all possible worlds."

Especially once people realize you never intended to deliver on those promises.

It bothers me even more when people claim things aren't possible or provide clearly bogus reasons as a means of evading their responsibilities.

For example, if the debt limit is not raised, the country will not default. One does not follow from the other. These representatives using that as a justification for their actions are either lying about that, or stupid, or naive. Or some combination.

Posted by: GalosGann at January 18, 2013 01:56 PM (T3KlW)

301 "Such a terrible outcome is to be avoided unless and until it can no longer be avoided."

Don't be patronizing, please. Everyone knows this. Especially conservatives.

Posted by: GalosGann at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (T3KlW)

302 Re: 297 Touche Sven.

My only hope is that the Washington Generals, aka Republican party, delays the coming bonfire enough for some chance that individual liberty survives the coming collapse. Thus, I prefer the borrow and spend (LIB model) versus tax, borrow, and spend. At least there is a market limit that is impervious to government control to borrowing through fiat currency. Neither party is interested in fiscal discipline and avoiding bankruptcy because no current political majority exists for doing it.


Posted by: wg at January 18, 2013 02:26 PM (c60dJ)

303 I know everyone wants to be a hard ass on this stuff, and wants to see real cuts now, but what is more likely is a little cut now, and then a little cut later, etc. Sneak in a hike on payroll taxes now...then sneak in a change in COLA later.

So, what they will do is cut a bit each year during the debt ceiling hikes.

This is not so bad, because a real "grand bargain" might not actually have many real current cuts, and let's be honest, a lot of LIV from both sides would howl bloody murder.

So, its got to be slowly shaving thin strips off fat off the beast.

Mmmm, now I want some bulgogi.

Posted by: sexypig at January 18, 2013 02:46 PM (dZQh7)

304 Basically Romney offered boldness, and the electorate muffledly said "I rather like this dark sand pit my head is in...nice and cool in the summer."

Posted by: sexypig at January 18, 2013 02:48 PM (dZQh7)

305 Since any uprising now would not be about slavery but about the power of the state, I think neo-revolutionary would be the correct term.

Posted by: sexypig at January 18, 2013 02:49 PM (dZQh7)

306 GalosGann @ 301: "Everyone knows this. Especially conservatives."

Yup. We read history. We now stated US policy is that disobedience to Washington is to be dealt with in the harshest fashion such that it serves as an example. War crimes against civilian populations are not a side effect; they are policy.

So an attempt at succession is a success only ticket; as in you go in knowing you win or you not only die but everything and everyone you know will be destroyed if you lose.

MAD is the only way. You build the whole plan around having WMD (focus on the MASS) capability plus a delivery system that can provide a plausible risk in the face of ABM tech. Or else you just don't do it.

Posted by: John Morris at January 18, 2013 03:23 PM (sCRhB)

307
Let's be honest, the GOP is going to cave on the debt ceiling and get nothing for it.




"The far right, beacuse it refuses to work with their Republican colleagues on a compromise, will once again have impelled final legislation that is further to the left than would otherwise be the case."

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 18, 2013 03:26 PM (kdS6q)

308 Don't be patronizing, please. Everyone knows this. Especially conservatives.
Posted by: GalosGann at January 18, 2013 02:07 PM (T3KlW)

Everyone knows this? Clearly some don't since I see post-apocalyptic fantasizing going on whenever people start talking about seccession and/or violent resistance and/or a second civil war. It's like people imagining themselves as members of that band of plucky survivors holding out heroically against all odds. The bad news? Most people in a zombie movie are zombies. The real-world corrolary is that most people who take up arms against an overwhelmingly superior force end up dead. No way around it.

It's all fantasy and wishcasting. So no, not 'everyone knows this'.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 03:29 PM (vtiE6)

309 308 TroyRiser,


Yeah that's how Vietnam, Iraq, and 'ghani worked out neh?

Now I agree that it will be bad, basically does barry have the ccharisma if push came to shove to convince Free Shit Army to kill us all, or keep trying forever?

Well the capitalist in me says "no" they can't even be bothered to keep fucking jobs, but the pessimistic historian in me says.....


Look in my eyes what do you see?

http://youtu.be/7xxgRUyzgs0

Cult of Personality.....

so God willing I hope we never see, because if they try to make this a communist nation I will be putting people in boxes if need be.

The Bill of Rights says what it says.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:43 PM (LRFds)

310 Are the black roughnecks in DeRidder Louisiana I've done taxes for neoConfederates for being pissed off at Maximum leader?This ain't about slavery from our end Troy it is about slavery from YOUR end debauching the currency to keep free shit and the pork cannon going to support two ponzi systems built on socialist lies is slavery sport.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 01:31 PM (LRFds)

To clarify: when I refer to 'neo-confederates', I am referring to those people--usually but not always Southerners--who act as apologists for the old Confederacy. These are generally the people who refer to Lincoln as a tyrant and the Civil War as 'The War Of Northern Aggression'. Such people are now trying to piggyback their beliefs onto legitimate reaction against the expanding powers of the federal government.

If any resistance to federal government overreach is to be successful, it cannot adopt the Confederacy as its model or inspiration. For one thing, the Confederacy was wrong. For another, it lost. Thus, it serves no good purpose as either model or inspiration.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 03:45 PM (vtiE6)

311 306 John Morris,

Yup.

The son of two communists who jerks off because of his multi culti background is going to tell me a Son of the American Revolution what "American loyalty" is.

Barack Obama would or at least some of the associates of the Pentagon who favor him would have been firing on the founders.

It's gonna be a fun four years.

I am 99% certain we'll muddle trhough.

I used to be 99.95% certain.

I miss that spare .95%

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:46 PM (LRFds)

312 so God willing I hope we never see, because if they try to make this a communist nation I will be putting people in boxes if need be.The Bill of Rights says what it says.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:43 PM (LRFds)

Again, not arguing with you, Sven. Just saying those who wish for violent escalation are in danger of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Go looking for a fight, and you'll find it. Go with peaceful intent (but ready if push comes to shove), and you're more likely to achieve a postive, peaceful outcome.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 03:48 PM (vtiE6)

313 310 Troyriser,

My family buried two sons in the service of the Ohio volunteers. I hate slavery, that is why I hate "liberalism" which is at best soft socialism and at worst closeted marxism. I would never dream of modeling a dissolution on the CSA model.

Lincoln was a tyrant, and the north did sadly irrevocably set the time bomb blowing up in our face now.

The tenth amendment was not about slavery, and the idea or notion that power should devolve back to the states along with the economic capital is not "hatred."

We are fast approaching a point where the coasts will try to suck the middle dry.

The people in the middle states have the right to not be sucked dry and or punished because the "king" hates suburban and rural populations.

This government was not meant as an engine of tyranny, and I will not bear overt extra-Constitutional hail Marys on the part of the radical left to undermine the bill of rights most especially on guns.

If New York is retarded enough to allow their employees to take away their ability to carry 8 shots.

"okay"

New York and California should not tell Texans how they feel about guns.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:55 PM (LRFds)

314 312 Troyriser,

I can't recall anyone here wanting violence, but considering the President launched his political career in a noted domestic terrorist's living room I am not ceding any moral high ground to the democrats.

I will never raise my right arm against the legal forces of the United States first or lightly, but if the Federal government ever crosses the line on the way to that charming little video I linked and political dissent becomes a death penalty I will help as many people leave that threat as I can.

I have that duty to a long line of Americans going back to the 1680s.

If Nanzi Pelosi, the President, and the guy who wrote that fatuous analysis want to say that makes me a terrorist make the best of it.

The US Army did.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:58 PM (LRFds)

315 Lincoln wasn't a tyrant and I'm frankly sick of reading/hearing it for the simple reason it isn't/wasn't true. He did what he did to save the Union. A tyrant would've done more--and worse. I too had family members die fighting for the Union. I too would/will advocate resistance to a stealth socialist takeover my country. However, unlike many posting here and elsewhere, I have a fairly clear idea of what the consequences of such resistance will mean. Like Sherman said, 'War is a terrible thing.' Why wish for it?

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 04:11 PM (vtiE6)

316 I have that duty to a long line of Americans going back to the 1680s.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 03:58 PM (LRFds)

I'll see your pilgrim lineage and raise you with James Ellery, signer of the Declaration of Independence and my great-great-great-great grandfather. You know that line of Benjamin Franklin's, where he says 'We shall all hang together or we shall surely all hang separately'? That isn't the complete line. My anscestor James Ellery was a famously skinny man, almost skeletal. The complete line was Franklin continuing, looking at my great~grandfather, "That is, except for Master Ellery, who I doubt can be hung."

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 04:18 PM (vtiE6)

317 315 Troyriser,

Lincoln saving the Union justifies maybe half of his overreach. The fact that he was easily more corrupt than Grant but gets a pass for it. You don't get it I come from a long line of Republicans, the family drifted to the Democrats after TR because they found his attacks on business onerous.

There are good solid arguments to be made Lincoln undermined the deference to the Bill of Rights.

I have very mixed feelings on him, the only two people as maddening are FDR and TR.

When I look at Lincoln on the whole, I see an egomaniac who felt that "the needs of the hour" justified his playing "do whatever the fuck I want."

Lincoln championed "The American System" which was a set of subsidies by use of the tax base to enrich the politically connected.

Just because a bunch of assholes are in the choir pointing out that Abe was not a saint does not mean Abe was a saint, or even "mostly ethical."

No President before or since has wielded power so lethally on US Soil against our own people economically and in the sense of civil liberty.

I am glad Lincoln won, I am certain that McClellan was far more likely to quit or allow slavery to go on. Perhaps Lincoln would have been able to hold the worst of the vultures at bay and spared the south the excesses of reconstruction. He died what happened happened.

The machinery he set in place was immoral in the pursuit of morality and poisoned the fruit of probably 1876-1963 to whatever degree.

Great 'war leader" perhaps, great defender of the US system of government and checks and balances?

Not at all.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 04:22 PM (LRFds)

318 316 Troyriser,

Not Pilgrims that was earlier second wave refugees from the resumption of the crown.

See Troy my family has been fucking up for a long time being "Republicans" where it is not popular.

I have a Sgt and Cpt in the AR, and a Maj who became a Congress Critter from mid Ohio post bellum in the ACW though he is not a straight line to me.

"Thank God" heh......

I love our growth and think properly controlled migration with an American education system that does not hate our nation as default position is the way to have a happy multi cultured society that reads the same hymnal.

This fight they are forcing on me is a broad spectrum assault and meant to kill everything I hold dear.

I have long had an argument with myself not to treat it as such with my heart despite my mind seeing that.

"Little helpers" trying to couple me with the KKK against my will.....?

"Not helping" me soothe my breaking heart Troy.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 04:27 PM (LRFds)

319 "Not helping" me soothe my breaking heart Troy.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 04:27 PM (LRFds)

I love my country andunderstand the 'heartbroken' part perfectly.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 04:33 PM (vtiE6)

320 Why are there no Republicans making clear arguments about why it is sensible to tie raising the debt limit to spending cuts? Do they have any idea what their goal is, apart from being re-elected? Do they understand why we have a debt limit?

Nobody talks about why we have a debt limit. The only argument I ever hear is that it's a nonsense thing that should be done away with.

We have a debt limit for a reason. The same reason you have a credit card limit: it's deemed safe for you to borrow that much, but if you borrow more, you become a default risk.

We're not risking default by demanding spending cuts. We're risking default by raising the limit without at least considering a change in our spending habits. The actual set of options are:
1) default now, realizing that we have no workable plan to pay our debts
2) get on a plan to pay our debts, and raise the debt limit only to give us time to work the plan, or
3) keep raising the debt limit until we can't borrow any more, so that our default is as big as possible

Posted by: Original Roy at January 18, 2013 05:01 PM (wTawr)

321 Posted by: Original Roy at January 18, 2013 05:01 PM (wTawr)

I'm no economist but even I can see that such spending is unsustainable. The U.S. government employs legions of economists equipped with the latest financial and mathematical modeling capabilities. I'm sure they see that it's unsustainable, as well. Therefore, the only conclusion I can reach is that Pelosi, Reid, and Obama intend to orchestrate a systemic crash and blame it on the Republicans. With most of the media on their side, they'll probably pull it off and the GOP will be discredited for a generation.

Sounds conspiratorial, I know, but you can't have a one-party state with two parties.

Posted by: troyriser at January 18, 2013 05:11 PM (vtiE6)

322 troyriser: the only conclusion I can reach is that Pelosi, Reid, and Obama intend to orchestrate a systemic crash and blame it on the Republicans.

My question is: why are the Republicans going along with it?

Posted by: Original Roy at January 18, 2013 05:37 PM (wTawr)

323 322 Original Roy,

They are addicted to the system as it was in part, they are afraid to stand up and call the illegal actions what they are because of RACISM! and the prices paid if things go wrong is so high.

In short they are unworthy of their seats but machine politics has evolved so far and people are so ignorant we may not be able to replace them quickly enough to prevent the media and senior democrat leadership from a defacto coup that if not illegal is definitely immoral and unethical.

The blood shed will be on the GOP leaderships hands too if it comes to that for their cowardice in the face of threats of racial discord.

If there is a conflict I suspect race relations will be set back at least 100 years and will exceed the actions in Africa with a far different outcome than the current history shows there.

In all likelihood the blacks will be aided by leftists and the right will make whatever deal is needed to get hispanics and it will be the first triracial war cicl war/rebellion that is divided on class/race lines that cuts across the axis of the population.

There will be ethnic cleansing in cities and rural areas, people who are idealists like me will probably get killed trying to stop their side's and "united States of America" will be a punchline like France is to us for about 100 years or so.

I do not want any conflict but I can see a bad one all too clearly if the United States government will not allow a peaceful divorce and the public is too stupid to force it on both sides.

It is enough that it has me hearing the bottle whispering to me for the first time in ten years.

I won't give in but it is bad.

I am under no illusions about anything.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2013 05:50 PM (LRFds)






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