Financial Times Analysis: Time to Start Moving Money Out of Supposedly "Safe Haven" US Investments to "Riskier" Bets in the Growing World

Investors have been willing to overpay for US treasuries and stocks on the theory that our economy, while not growing, was at least stable and predictable.

World investors may no longer be willing to pay a premium for a benefit that might no longer exist.

Note this article does not in fact address treasuries at all -- it's about stocks in US corporations. I would imagine that some of the same thinking applies to treasuries, but I don't know that, and the article doesn't say that.

It does suggest moving money out of US stocks and out of stocks dependent on US consumption for their growth.

The market had hoped for a “Grand Bargain”. Instead, it got a small, ultimately insufficient fiscal deal. The best to be said of the agreement hammered out on New Year’s eve is that it beat the alternative. While investors still cheered, nobody should mistake this for an economic, fiscal, or financial positive. Ideally Washington would have crafted a deal coupling long-term tax and entitlement reform with short-term stimulus. Instead, we got the opposite. The US now faces significant fiscal drag on an already sluggish recovery.

The drag might have been justified had the agreement actually addressed the long-term fiscal outlook. But it failed to tackle the US tax code’s dysfunction or the sustainability of major entitlement programmes. In abdicating any effort to stabilise the national debt, Washington now risks an eventual loss of international confidence in the US....


Rather than abandoning risky assets altogether, investors should tap market segments most geared to faster global growth and less exposed to US consumption....

To benefit from global growth even more directly, investors can reduce their overall US allocation....

Given the shift in relative fundamentals, investors should consider reallocating some portion of their holdings out of the US and into emerging markets, smaller developed markets and European exporters.

I had a half-baked idea. It's almost certainly been noted before. I don't know why I pretended ambiguity on that point-- it has been noted before, a bunch of times, including by commenters here. But I've been thinking about it, so I'm writing about it.

George W. Bush wasn't ever really as popular as he seemed post-9/11-- something that became apparent when his approval ratings cratered in 2007. His post-9/11 support was, as they say, a mile wide and an inch deep.

I believe that George W. Bush was the beneficiary of a rally-round-the-flag effect, as the liberal American media frequently speculated. In a time of trauma and crisis, he seemed to be, ahem, a safe haven for people's hopes.

But his actual support, being very fragile, cracked and then broke apart when he seemed to not be making any progress on the very issue due to which people had rallied to him, that is, the War on Terror (expanded into the War in Iraq, of course).

And then he became quite an unpopular politician.

The media almost never says that Obama is the beneficiary of a rally-round-the-flag sentiment, but that's only because their own support is so deep (and so deep, in fact, as to approach actual romantic love). They were Johnny On the Spot in pointing out the public might not like a President they themselves didn't like as much as it might seem; but when the sitting president is the apple of their eye, they're blind to the fact that maybe the public's support is a highly contingent and fickle thing. (Indeed, even when Obama's approval dropped to 45%, the press persisted for a year and a half calling him a "popular president.")

Now, Bush's own contingent, fickle, best-port-in-a-menacing-storm was enough to allow him to squeak by in an reelection contest which pitted him against a personally cold, graspingly ambitious Northeastern Brahmin. But after the War in Iraq continued to go poorly (up until the moment it was won), support for Bush, and Republicans generally, fell dramatically, and Democrats swept into control of Congress in 2006.

I think Obama stands in a similar situation. His approval rating continues to fluctuate between 45 and 49 percent, as people continue giving him the benefit of the doubt on his own Main Challenge, the economy.

But as with Bush, this benefit-of-the-doubt is not perpetual.

As with Bush in the beginning of 2005, Obama has about eighteen months left to show some serious progress before people make a similar decision as they made with Bush -- we trusted this guy, we reelected him, and he's still not delivering on the central issue we elected him on five and a half years in.

Of course, Obama could actually get some good economic news.

But it doesn't seem like we'll have anything like a truly growing economy. It seems we will continue to merely grow-and-fall along a much-lowered baseline.

And of course his various expensive and controversial "surges" don't seem to be winning the day. In fact they seem to be hurting things, unlike Bush's.


There Is No "U" in Hubris

Wait a tic, checking again, there is.


Soothsayer Objects... He writes that the public doesn't care about such things.

we learned three things in 2012:

1. Obama does not need gas to be under $3.50/gal

2. Obama does not need unemployment rate to be lower 7.7%

3. Obama does not need a healthy housing sector, only one that perpetually shows "signs of recovery"

I don't think that's true. I think the public didn't demand these things occur by the end of his first term. That is different from them never demanding these things, ever.

Consider that the Iraq War was going poorly in 2004 -- and the public knew that -- but did not, at that point, give Bush his walking papers. By 2006, however, they kicked the Republicans out of Congressional power.

I think the dynamic worked like this:

Liberals overplayed their hands complaining that Everything Is Bush's Fault. The public realized that this was nonsense -- that terrorism had been a growing and unaddressed issue for a decade or three -- and that the liberal pretense that Everything Is Bush's Fault was unfair and just some political shuck-and-jive.

Liberals seemed to them overwrought, and primarily whining about their reduced political influence, rather than making accurate complaints and assessments of fault. And animated by ideological/political antipathy and outright hatred for Bush, which the public by and large did not share. (Nor did they love him -- I think the broad, less-political public views the passions of partisans as somewhat unhinghed and silly.)

I think the same sort of thing may have happened to conservatives in 2008-2012 -- that the public thought we were just whining about their decision (they voted for these imbeciles, after all) and were also offering up some shuck-and-jive political agitations for purposes of PR manipulation.

Nevertheless, the relentless drumbeat that Everything is Bush's Fault did in fact strike a chord with the public (how can drums strike chords?, you ask; Shut Up, I explain) by 2006 and continued through 2008... and to the present day.

At some point, the public was willing to believe Everything Is Bush's fault. That time just wasn't in 2004. It came later.

Will we see a similar dynamic? I believe that if things do not markedly improve we will in fact see that dynamic again.

I don't think the broad public is terribly political. I think they are practical, results-driven. It's hard to move them on policy because they just don't have much interest in policy, ideology, or theory.

But they will take note of results, and change their minds according to that metric.

Posted by: Ace at 04:27 PM



Comments

1 But, but...when our Credit Rating gets downgraded again, they can get paid more interest!

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 04:30 PM (fH4X9)

2 If you used the bathroom right after Lena Dunham, and didn't know it was her in there before you, you'd just assume it had been a large man.

Posted by: AlphaBase1 at January 17, 2013 04:30 PM (eFZd5)

3 Great post.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 17, 2013 04:31 PM (UOM48)

4 Math is racist. So is wanting a return on your investment.

Posted by: Vizzini at January 17, 2013 04:31 PM (O7Q1u)

5 so we need to give barky another porkulus or three?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 04:31 PM (LRFds)

6 But we still have him for four more years.

Lucky us.

Posted by: RWC (save the white kiddies) at January 17, 2013 04:32 PM (fWAjv)

7 and he's still not delivering on the central issue we elected him on five and a half years in.


Unless the Free Shit stops going to the Free Shit Army, oh, yes, yes he is.


I'm going to be having a serious discussion soon with my investment people about what to do with the portion of my (not so huge) investments that are in bonds. That's supposed to be the long term, safe, steady amount. Given that the bond market is facing a huge emfuckening by the bankruptcy courts in order to prioritize payments to pension funds, I think it's time to reconsider bonds.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 17, 2013 04:32 PM (VtjlW)

8 Don't know what to think about Barky's ratings on this or that. I do know that every time I see a poll on Yahoo! asking for opinions regarding this or that issue, he loses big. Today's poll was on gun control and "Obama is overreaching" was winning at 67%.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 04:32 PM (kXoT0)

9 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (/eBe8)

10 It seems we will continue to merely grow-and-fall along a much-lowered baseline.

In Soviet America, this is success. Don't question your betters, comrade.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (KDq5l)

11 hey world...what would you say if there were an "America" that did not have its nose stuck up your ass so far you could see the snout in the mirror when you smiled?

The regulatory superstate and healthy economy are not compatible.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (LRFds)

12
That's what I thought, too.

Now I think Obama is about to have a 2nd term much like Clinton's -- low unemployment, stock market bubble, high approvals.

Then the bubble will burst and muslim terrorism will breakout...just like in 2000.


Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (9Q7Nu)

13 You might be on to something ace, we might be set for Obama fatigue. I know i'm already tired.
The only real difference will be the lack of a drumbeat in the media every. damn. day. about his ineffectiveness.

Still, though I think it will take his toll on the ratings. Of course, I thought the same pre election.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (t06LC)

14 Yet another ghey actor comes out, Victor Garber, of Argo.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (kXoT0)

15 I think Obama stands in a similar situation. His approval rating continues to fluctuate between 45 and 49 percent, as people continue giving him the benefit of the doubt on his own Main Challenge, the economy.

But as with Bush, this benefit-of-the-doubt is not perpetual.


His chances at reelection are greatly diminished over this time last year.

Posted by: toby928© denouces himself so you don't have to at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (evdj2)

16 The World is obviously racist.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 04:34 PM (RXCFT)

17 7 AlexTheChick,

not playing investment guru...ask your guy about investing in either Alberta or Calgary munis.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 04:34 PM (LRFds)

18 Obama has about eighteen months left to show some serious progress before people make a similar decision as they made with Bush

You have a much higher opinion of the populace than I do.

If there's no progress, they'll pretend to believe there's been progress because he's black.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 17, 2013 04:35 PM (ZKzrr)

19 GWB had the benefit of havinghis so called own side bashing him at every turn.

Obama has the media and his own side carrying his water.

Huge difference.

Posted by: polynikes at January 17, 2013 04:35 PM (m2CN7)

20 Obama's shit's fucked up and he talks like a fag.

Also, his wife is a 'tard.

Posted by: Truman North at January 17, 2013 04:35 PM (Di7HK)

21 12 soothsayer,

right no I don't think so....

could be but I think the world has decided if there is risk of the government playing games and there is if Botox gets the speakership back they're going for profit with risk.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 04:35 PM (LRFds)

22 >>>You have a much higher opinion of the populace than I do.

I trust people to be selfish. Self-interest will always prevail.

Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:35 PM (LCRYB)

23
we learned three things in 2012:

1. Obama does not need gas to be under $3.50/gal

2. Obama does not need unemployment rate to be lower 7.7%

3. Obama does not need a healthy housing sector, only one that perpetually shows "signs of recovery"

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (9Q7Nu)

24 Smells like smoke . . . .


Posted by: RoyalOil at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (imtbm)

25 Financial Times Analysis: Time to Start Moving Money Out of Supposedly "Safe Haven" US Investments to "Riskier" Bets in the Growing World

Whoo-hoo! Time to make the move on buggy whips!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (GFM2b)

26 Ace,

Just out of curiosity, what's with the registration walls lately? I mean I know they're not pay-walls, but that's like the second linkthrough to one in a few days.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (wGOqj)

27
Drop the corporate rate to 25% and watch the money roll in. Watch jobs pick up again.

I think Obama probably even believes this, but he knows his base is so fucking stupid they'd scream bloody murder for even considering it. And one thing this feckless git will never do is stand up to his base.

Posted by: spongeworthy at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (r5w1L)

28 I will not negotiate over the debt ceiling...

Posted by: Barry Quadrillions at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (wAQA5)

29 TN, Tell us how you really feel. Don't be sugar coating it now.

Posted by: sTevo at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (VMcEw)

30 The left, pushed a continual drumbeat on Iraq, the Plame case, practically accusing Bush of causing Katrina, not nearly the same thing,

Posted by: cardinal fang at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (Jsiw/)

31 Posted by: spongeworthy at January 17, 2013 04:36 PM (r5w1L)

Repatriation holiday would also be a good idea!

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 17, 2013 04:37 PM (wGOqj)

32 His chances at reelection are greatly diminished over this time last year.
Posted by: toby928©
----------
The obamaphone lady has vowed not to vote for him again.

Posted by: Hard Right at January 17, 2013 04:37 PM (+aCe4)

33 Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 17, 2013 04:37 PM (ZKzrr)

34
What Obama does need is a biased media and A People who don't pay attention to details. He's got that, so he's all set.


Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:37 PM (9Q7Nu)

35 *We* let them ratfuck Bush, *we* made sure there was no price to pay for undermining the PotUS at war.

We laughed along with Jon Leibowicz at stupid chimpy in too many cases.

I've met the enemy and he is us.

We approach this like it is politics and that we at best tolerate the assholes we elect and we're up against a kult of personality.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 04:37 PM (LRFds)

36
As with Bush in the beginning of 2005, Obama has about eighteen months left to show some serious progress before people make a similar decision as they made with Bush -- we trusted this guy, we reelected him, and he's still not delivering on the central issue we elected him on five and a half years in.


It doesn't matter. He could rape and disembowel a ten year old boy on live TV and Democrats would claim that any criticism of him was racism. He doesn't have to run for reelection, and when he leaves office he will have a lifetime of wealth and comfort lined up with speaking gigs around the world where he denounces the next administration and the US in general.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 17, 2013 04:39 PM (o1kXv)

37 not playing investment guru...ask your guy about investing in either Alberta or Calgary munis.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 04:34 PM (LRFds)



That's what we're going to discuss, I still want some munis just not necessarily American ones. Which is kinda the point of the post I guess.


Ha! I do too sort of respond on topic sometimes!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 17, 2013 04:39 PM (VtjlW)

38 Hmmm. Guess they're not sold on the $trillion coin idea.

Posted by: Timothy Quintillions at January 17, 2013 04:39 PM (wAQA5)

39 I'm going to be having a serious discussion soon with my investment
people about what to do with the portion of my (not so huge) investments
that are in bonds. That's supposed to be the long term, safe, steady
amount. Given that the bond market is facing a huge emfuckening by the
bankruptcy courts in order to prioritize payments to pension funds, I
think it's time to reconsider bonds.


Might I recommend your mattress as a safer investment with a better ROI?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 17, 2013 04:39 PM (/eBe8)

40 #7, At the end of December, I sold some very high quality long term bonds that I inherited from Mom. I replaced them with bonds of similar quality and dividends with a must shorter horizon for maturity. My stockbroker is a bond expert and she had long discussions with the NY Bond Desk about what I should do with those bonds. She loves bonds, but, she feels like bonds with a long time till maturity are going to lose a lot of real value--i.e., I had bonds maturing 2025 in 10K units--she felt like I would only be able to sell a 10K bond with that maturity for 5K to 7K. I now have bonds with a 2015/2016 date.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 04:39 PM (kXoT0)

41 I trust people to be selfish. Self-interest will always prevail.

Over delusion as a psychological defense mechanism? Over brainwashing? People believed that "worst economy since the Depression" shit in 2005; they'll continue to blame Republicans instead of Chocolate Jesus, who cares about people like them and gives free healthcare to 26-year-old children with brain tumors.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 17, 2013 04:40 PM (ZKzrr)

42 How come no main post on the Mali hostage crisis where seven Americans may have been murdered today by Al-Qaeda?

This is O's fault and we know the MFM won't cover it. We need to.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at January 17, 2013 04:41 PM (KL49F)

43 Keep in mind, that advice is worth just what you paid for it, 1 free night's stay on my pallet in Alextopia.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 04:41 PM (kXoT0)

44 If a foreign nation nuked a few cities and invaded our country, the media would say that's good news for Obama, The Man Who Can't Do Wrong





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Posted by: Mr_Write at January 17, 2013 04:41 PM (CLkAH)

45 No worries, I've got the presses all tuned up.

Posted by: Ben Sextillions at January 17, 2013 04:41 PM (wAQA5)

46 I trust people to be selfish. Self-interest will always prevail.

The problem is that the Dem strategy has been to run on people's selfishness. The whole FSA is based around the idea of voting for the guy who gives you more stuff. They just don't care where it comes from.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 17, 2013 04:42 PM (o1kXv)

47 Arable Land.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 04:42 PM (RXCFT)

48 Uh-oh. I see barrels.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 17, 2013 04:42 PM (GFM2b)

49 Yikes! All that extra text was supposed to be a Trademark symbol.

Posted by: Mr_Write at January 17, 2013 04:42 PM (CLkAH)

50 Ace: ..."But it doesn't seem like we'll have anything like a truly growing economy. It seems we will continue to merely grow-and-fall along a much-lowered baseline."

Well, yeah Ace.
We are only 2 weeks in, into the new higher tax rates for the Job Creators.

Let's see where we are in 6 months, after all that capital has been taken out of the economy.

ZeroCare® is just now starting to affect Jobs.
It would've already done a lot of damage, if they hadn't been issuing all those Waivers.
Let's see what effect that has on the economy, after the ripple effect has been happening for a while.

Wall Street still loves'em some devaluation of the Dollar.
So, as Bernanke prints more money...we can expect to see the Dow go up in little spikes.

ButForeign Investors are always looking out for signs that our Economy is going to take a dive.
If Foreign money starts leaving...that is what will start the cascade, and then US investors will follow suit.

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 04:43 PM (fH4X9)

51 >>>Posted by: Mr_Write

Barrel!

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 17, 2013 04:43 PM (0q2P7)

52 I addressed soothsayer and Heather in the main post.

Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:43 PM (LCRYB)

53
Mr_Write to the the Oaken Cask...
Mr_Write to the Oaken Cask...
Thank You.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 04:43 PM (RXCFT)

54 The MFM will never dis Dear Leader. Never. I think they have already demonstrated that and I expect that after he is gone there will immediately be a massive campaign to rewrite his presidency by Leftist "historians".

Posted by: Daybrother at January 17, 2013 04:43 PM (+paCV)

55 We dutifully tuck cash into mutual funds every paycheck, but sometimes wonder if its worth it....that was pounded into my head, invest early and often and you will be in good shape for retirement. Still true?

Posted by: Red Shirt at January 17, 2013 04:43 PM (FIDMq)

56 Time to dial 1-800-CASH-OUT

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 04:43 PM (Gyp4x)

57 cute. But here's the difference: The GOP has abandoned itself. The 2006 DNC never lost sight of their goals. Even in deepest darkest hours from 2004 election to Katrina, DNC never shut up about Bush failed etcs...

Case in point. During debate #2 Romney screwed us so hard by no responding positively to that sea-hag who begged him not to be Bush.

Instead of being all like "you mean 4.5% unemployment, falling deficits, recovering from Clinton's recession instead of Obama's stutteringly expesnive $5T deficit boondoggle of a presidency?" he basically adopted the premise and damned us all.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (QxSug)

58
Over delusion as a psychological defense mechanism?

Delusion as a psychological defense is in one's self interest.

Posted by: Entropy at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (TULs6)

59 Drop the corporate rate to 25% and watch the money roll in. Watch jobs pick up again.

I think Obama probably even believes this[***}
=============
And what, pray tell, would you cite as evidence of this?

I contend, good sir, that he does not believe such a thing and dare go further and would suppose his true belief to be the nationalization of corporations deemed as "big" is the perfect job engine.

Care to wager which of us be closer to the mark?

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (imtbm)

60
Might I recommend your mattress as a safer investment with a better ROI?


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 17, 2013 04:39 PM (/eBe

If you choose your areas well, you may be OK actually. My Municipality issued 5 million in bonds a few years back to purchase some land for a park. They have about a 2 million each year surplus (I haven't quite figured out where it goes quite yet.)They're currently talking about paying down the bonds early (not quite sure how that works legally, but it's on the table.)When they reissue bonds in a few years for various improvements it might not be a bad idea to buy them. (If they can pull in a surplus from a sales tax based system in this economy, I don't think they're in for any long term trouble.)Now California bonds aren't worth the paper their printed on.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (wGOqj)

61 Equity positions in US based multinationals are a better bet than treasuries, and pay better too.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (RdmnV)

62 >>>Yikes! All that extra text was supposed to be a Trademark symbol.

Let me help the noob out while he, uh, does his service. Hit alt type 0174 on your keypad release alt.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (0q2P7)

63
I trust people to be selfish. Self-interest will always prevail.


I have always relied on people being nicer than I am and I must tell you, I've never been disappointed.

Posted by: Ron Liebman as the Al Calde at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (O7Q1u)

64 ace,


This seems like conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom told us that with the economic numbers (especially unemployment) would ensure just about anyone could beat him. We saw how that worked out.



The Media was openly hostile to Bush for years and it finally took its toll. The Media has openly fellated Obama for years and obviously achieved results. Rumors of the MBM's demise have been greatly exaggerated.



Also, don't count on the electorate to come through for you and prove your point here.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (ROv35)

65 The problem is that the Dem strategy has been to run
on people's selfishness. The whole FSA is based around the idea of
voting for the guy who gives you more stuff. They just don't care where
it comes from. Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 17, 2013 04:42 PM (o1kXv)

Dumb FSA, they live in food deserts now because they pilfer any grocery store that comes into da hood into bankruptcy. Where is food, water, etc gonna come from for them if it all goes really bad? The lucky ones will have a bullet to eat and end their suffering.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 04:45 PM (kXoT0)

66
btw, I recently realized something important.

You know how I (and you) always get cranky because every day our side does nothing to advance our agenda?

Well, it dawned on me how difficult it is to advance an ideology such as conservatism. It's practically a paradox if you think about it!

How do you advance conservatism? Leftism, or progressivism, is easy to advance: you simply roll back conservatism. Our battle is all uphill. What we want most is for things to remain simple and basic and stick to first principles and avoid radicalism.

Which leaves us in a pickle, ya? It's hard to advance conservatism. But we must or our republic is doomed.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:45 PM (9Q7Nu)

67 Awfully nice Democrat-controlled Senate you have there.
Would be a shame if you forced your Senators in Montana, South Dakota, Alaska, North Carolina, Louisiana and Arkansas to vote on a gun ban right before a mid-term election where your most loyal base won't show up.

Then again, we're the GOP. We have our Akins, Bergs, Thompsons, Macks, Bucks, O'Donnells, Mourdocks to ensure defeat can be snatched.
We have all Angles covered in that respect.

Posted by: CAC at January 17, 2013 04:45 PM (SE7HH)

68 Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 04:37 PM (LRFds)

Sort of this. I disagree with the premise that Bush's support was "a mile wide and an inch deep." Every day, virtually from the beginning of hostilities in Afghanistan, all we heard, non-stop, was about how futile it all was.

Then, when the GWOT expanded into Iraq, all were heard was how he wanted to "finish for Daddy" and how he'd "lied us into war."

Where I disagree with sven is the "we" part. Every conservative I know was quite vociferous about pointing out the MFM's lies and misrepresentations. The blame there goes to Rove and, ultimately, GW himself. They are the ones who believed they could stay "above the fray" and not respond to those attacks.

Considering the number of people who still (STILL!!!) only get their "news" from CNN, and 60 Minutes, it's not surprising that Bush's support evaporated.

Unfortunately, the opposite is true for TFG. All people are hearing is how wonderful things are and how happy days are here again. We've already seen (in November) that they're willing to believe that everybody but themselves is doing just fine. As long as the News keeps up the "prosperity montage," the zombies and drones will believe it, and they'll support TFG.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 17, 2013 04:45 PM (/eBe8)

69 Yikes! All that extra text was supposed to be a Trademark symbol.
Posted by: Mr_Write


Don't copy and paste from Word, Outlook, or IE.

Trademark:
Press and hold Alt while typing in 0153

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 17, 2013 04:45 PM (KDq5l)

70 >>> Time to Start Moving Money Out of Supposedly "Safe Haven" US Investments to "Riskier" Bets in the Growing World

Hmmm. I just did that....two years ago. I wonder why.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 17, 2013 04:45 PM (0q2P7)

71
Question #1: What did we do to advance conservatism, today?

Answer: Not a goddam thing.

But what could we have done??


Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:46 PM (9Q7Nu)

72 and BTW, we got our ass kicked in 2012. We lost red senate seats in states where they hate gun-grabbing obama.

Furthermore, the # of voters (this may be wrong) that voted for Blue Congressional House assholes > number of red congressional house seat voters.

That is, we're lucky to have the house.

And since there's no such thing as voter fraud (i.e., the above statistic merely reflects ballot stuffing in blue districts), that means Obama is popular and 2014 is just a pipedream.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 04:46 PM (QxSug)

73 Obama's support is at 99%.

The only people who don't support him is evil rich straight white male oppressors.

They will be liquidated soon enough...

Posted by: MSNBC at January 17, 2013 04:46 PM (Vk2pI)

74 I think they are practical, results-driven. It's hard to move them
on policy because they just don't have much interest in policy,
ideology, or theory.

But they will take note of results, and change their minds according to that metric.
=============
I give you November 7, 2012 as a checkmate to such an out-dated concept.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 17, 2013 04:46 PM (imtbm)

75 Time to dial 1-800-CASH-OUT

1-888-CAYMAN$$

Posted by: rickb223 at January 17, 2013 04:47 PM (GFM2b)

76 TFG™

Posted by: The Jackhole at January 17, 2013 04:47 PM (nTgAI)

77 I trust people to be selfish. Self-interest will always prevail.
Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:35 PM (LCRYB)


------------------------------------------------------


I used to before the election. But the MFM and the pop culture has made him into a god. LiV's are killing any kind of intelligent discourse. They luv's them some preezy.

The dems and the MFM will start a 22nd Amendment push soon. There again, another unprecedented event in the eyes of his minions.

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 04:47 PM (RFrso)

78 Munies! Run for your life! Before Turbo Timmy taps you!!!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 04:47 PM (Gyp4x)

79 Furthermore, the # of voters (this may be wrong) that voted for Blue Congressional House assholes > number of red congressional house seat voters.

That is, we're lucky to have the house.

And since there's no such thing as voter fraud (i.e., the above statistic merely reflects ballot stuffing in blue districts), that means Obama is popular and 2014 is just a pipedream.
Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 04:46 PM (QxSug)
Because Obama voters showed up in their districts big time. Case in point- Pennsylvania. Big, BIG drop off in # of votes out of Philly from 2012 to 2010.

But yes, we are the GOP and we can fuck up a win better than anyone.

Posted by: CAC at January 17, 2013 04:48 PM (SE7HH)

80 >>>Question #1: What did we do to advance conservatism, today?

We made no effort to avert DOOM.

#LiB

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 17, 2013 04:48 PM (0q2P7)

81 I don't think the broad public is terribly political. I think they are practical, results-driven. It's hard to move them on policy because they just don't have much interest in policy, ideology, or theory.

But they will take note of results, and change their minds according to that metric.



They are getting their Free Shit. That is the only result that matters.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 17, 2013 04:48 PM (VtjlW)

82 >>>I give you November 7, 2012 as a checkmate to such an out-dated concept.

but I can give you November 2004 for a similar point -- after initially winning the war (we thought) in 2003, the insurgency engulfed the whole country in chaos and murder and thousands of US troops were killed and we were, indeed, back in another Vietnam, with our troops having vague and impossilbe missions ("protect all the local populace, always" and "capture and kill terrorists without harming innocents").

Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:49 PM (LCRYB)

83 Bush lost support because he created a new bureaucracy (TSA), a new entitlement (Part D) and toyed with amnesty. He pissed off the people what brung him, the fiscal conservatives.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 17, 2013 04:49 PM (UU0OF)

84 But on the other point, it's fucking scary. We can't raise interest rates because the criminal junta that's spending our country dry needs to hide the true cost of their deficit spending by keeping rates low.

As long as rates are low:
1. our bonds aren't worth the risks
2. no ROI for investing here as a whole

Because of 1, we're printing $ to buy our bonds
Because of 2, even when Obama uses his mandate to hire 100,000 teachers to teach us math and science, there's no investment here to use the new math and science students who graduate in 7 years once this takes place.*

* you do remember the Obama economic plan, Obamanomics is more teachers, right? Something that every GOP member should have made fun of over and over again.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 04:49 PM (QxSug)

85 >>>TFG™

Oh common, that's gone mainstream on the GB show. It deserves an ®

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 17, 2013 04:49 PM (0q2P7)

86
here's a for instance that illustatrate how easy it is for Democrats to advance their agenda and how difficult it is for us to advance our agenda:

Democrats can simply draft a bill "for the children" chock full of spending programs and other crap.

Conversely, the Republicans cannot simply draft bills that cut spending programs, eliminate unions, etc.

They can, of course, but that would be a disaster politically. So what do we do?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:50 PM (9Q7Nu)

87 >>>They are getting their Free Shit. That is the only result that matters.


and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon, if our theory of the world is right.

if it can go on forever, then I guess we're wrong.

But of course we're not wrong. It will close.

Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:50 PM (LCRYB)

88 and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon, if our theory of the world is right.

if it can go on forever, then I guess we're wrong.

But of course we're not wrong. It will close.

Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:50 PM (LCRYB)
Ah, but if the FREE SHIT STORE closes, you think they will blame themselves?
They'll blame the rich for shutting the store down.

Posted by: CAC at January 17, 2013 04:51 PM (SE7HH)

89 If the unemployment insurance hadn't been continually extended the nation would be in open revolt by now.

Posted by: toby928© denouces himself so you don't have to at January 17, 2013 04:51 PM (evdj2)

90 **83 Bush lost support because he created a new bureaucracy (TSA), a new entitlement (Part D) and toyed with amnesty. He pissed off the people what brung him, the fiscal conservatives.**

Amnesty is correct answer.

But Bush lost support overall because the lefty media complex spent 7 years destroying him with every lie they could think of.

Most americans weren't familiar with anything else, like Bush's new spending (let alone that 2006 was low point in deficits) because all the low info voter knew is that Jon Stewart was blasting bush as big deficit guy,etc

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 04:51 PM (QxSug)

91 Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:46 PM (9Q7Nu)Failure. We must tolerate it. We must embrace it. The populus must be allowed to achieve failure if we are to advance the ball.Too Big To Fail is what we are fighting against.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 04:52 PM (RXCFT)

92 It's Bush's fault works like old Adolph blaming the Jews (Add guilt-free sex, lust, abortion is good, free lunches, racism is alive and well, propaganda -then remove God and bake for an hour at 350 degrees and you get modern America.

Posted by: Don L at January 17, 2013 04:52 PM (3OQi4)

93 They are getting their Free Shit. That is the only result that matters.


They thought Romney was going to take away their birth control.

Self-interest will always prevail.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 17, 2013 04:53 PM (ZKzrr)

94 Give us back our gold.

Posted by: The GERMANS at January 17, 2013 04:53 PM (BL6W/)

95 But of course we're not wrong. It will close.

*nods* This year our interest payments on debt will reach a half a trillion dollars.

Posted by: toby928© stabs at thee from hell's heart at January 17, 2013 04:53 PM (evdj2)

96 Ah, but if the FREE SHIT STORE closes, you think they will blame themselves?
They'll blame the rich for shutting the store down.

---

Stop restocking it but don't shut it down, then watch them fall all over each other like people at a Paramus, NJ, Black Friday sale.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 17, 2013 04:53 PM (e0xKF)

97 and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon, if our theory of the world is right.



if it can go on forever, then I guess we're wrong.



But of course we're not wrong. It will close.





Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:50 PM (LCRYB)
Ace, what the heck does the free shit store closing even look like though?And at that point is whose in power going to matter much? (No seriously, I'm not one of those "open rebellion is coming" types, but it seem to me that as long as borrowing is allowed unchecked, the free shit store stays open. But when borrowing is checked, we won't be in any position to turn the ship around.BTW, Drumbeats resonate, that was the term you were looking for.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 17, 2013 04:54 PM (wGOqj)

98 >>>So what do we do?

You see those curtains that just caught fire by the window? You're holding an extinguisher. Three moonbats are doing their best to wrestle you to the ground and take it from you so they can use it to huff PKP.

Give it to them.
Go in the kitchen, sit down have a Val-U-Rite and coke.
Leave the house through the back door when you see the smoke.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 17, 2013 04:54 PM (0q2P7)

99 Which leaves us in a pickle, ya? It's hard to advance conservatism. But we must or our republic is doomed.
Posted by: soothsayer


How about "The conservative party stands for Freedom."

Posted by: Daybrother at January 17, 2013 04:54 PM (+paCV)

100 Then again Bush never murmured that it was all untrue. He fought like the..well..the GOP with marshmallow guns against nukes.

Posted by: Don L at January 17, 2013 04:54 PM (3OQi4)

101 They are getting their Free Shit. That is the only result that matters.


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Team Stompy. at January 17, 2013 04:48 PM (VtjlW)

Agreed, but, neither Baby Mama nor babies can eat acrylic nails, iPhones, or hair extensions, and that is where they are headed. Back in the day, every Black in Chicago had a Granny in the South with a truck patch, chickens, and shelves full of home canned food that they would go home to in an emergency. I spent a lot of my young years in a car while my Dad drove us from the Chicago area to my Grandparents in OK. Car after car (with Mississippi plates) filled to the headliner was filled with subsistence level Blacks made the trip down through Illinois right along side us to split off in Missouri for points Southeast . But, those days are gone.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 04:54 PM (kXoT0)

102 if it can go on forever, then I guess we're wrong. But of course we're not wrong. It will close.
Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:50 PM (LCRYB)
-
When the federal government cannot supply the FSA, they will cut out the middleman, and come straight to your house for their free stuff. They have been told for three generations that your stuff belongs to them. Why do you think gun stores have been mobbed for the past four years?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 17, 2013 04:55 PM (RdmnV)

103 You guys think the broad public turns on conservatives whenever they're not conservative enough.

In other words, you seem to think the public is broadly red-state conservative.

I don't know what on earth it will take to disabuse you of this notion.

On one hand, people argue that the public likes free shit and socialism. On the other hand, a different group argues they only turn Republicans out of office when the Republicans disagree with Mark Levin.

The first claim at least has some recent evidentiary support for it.

The second is just some kind of bumper sticker or rallying cry. It might be fun to say but it's in no way true.

(I caveat this for immigration-- the public reacts viscerally to that, or rather, had. But in any event that measure did NOT PASS it was hardly the subject of general conversation by 2006 and certainly not by 2008.)



Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:55 PM (LCRYB)

104 Whatever. Nothing's gonna change my mind that it was all about unemployment benefits and free stuff.

Posted by: John the Libertarian at January 17, 2013 04:55 PM (oshol)

105 a healthy housing sector, only one that perpetually shows "signs of recovery"

If I had a nickel for every real estate agent posting sunshine and rainbows on their FB pages, I'd be posting from the Caymans. I'm in Phoenix, of course, so it couldn't go any lower than the 2008 crash, and prices are surely higher now. But what, pray tell, do they think is going to happen when mortgage rates go back to historical averages, or even 1% higher than they are now? And how many people left *don't* have destroyed credit ratings from shortselling or foreclosing?

Posted by: jakeman at January 17, 2013 04:55 PM (96M6e)

106 we got our ass kicked, the culture is pointed left, the demographics are making us (i.e., everyone who's family was here before Ted K's immigration law) into modern Native Americans (NTTAWT) while the new Pilgrims have no concept of American exceptionalism.

2014 will be pain. Before I predicted that we would follow the FDR model, all it will take is 15 years of Great Depression, WWIII, and then a modern day Ike will emerge to lead GOP to its next Nixon and thus to Reagan...so give or take 40 years before prosperity etc.

But now? meh, isnert your own personal dystopian fantasy here.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 04:55 PM (QxSug)

107 From 1995. How Dems view the Federal purse.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1145/660/1600/demfrenzy.jpg

Things have not changed. Its an addiction. And only a cold turkey crash will work.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (Gyp4x)

108 How about "The conservative party stands for Freedom."

That doesn't work because their definition of "freedom" is different from yours.

To them freedom is the ability to do whatever you want without suffering the consequences.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (o1kXv)

109 If the public were really insistent on firetruck-red conservatism -- preferring the true red version to the pinker variety -- for god's sakes, 2006-2012 wouldn't have happened.

Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (LCRYB)

110 58 --- "Delusion as a psychological defense is in one's self interest."
Posted by: Entropy at January 17, 2013 04:44 PM (TULs6)

Exactly.
People do always vote in their self-interest, but not necessarily in their economic self-interest. For some, especially for those who are well-off enough to have a margin of safety, economic interest is not paramount.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (C8mVl)

111 Ace, what the heck does the free shit store closing even look like though?
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 17, 2013 04:54 PM (wGOqj)

Pro Tip:

Get out of the city.

Posted by: That's Captain, Captain Jack Sparrow at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (UZQM8)

112
How about "The conservative party stands for Freedom."

We just learned in November that people value "free" much more "freedom."

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (9Q7Nu)

113 I thought the Free Shit Army and the MFM means the country is lost forever?

Hold that meteor!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (XkWWK)

114 Bonds are wastepaper already. By the time they mature their face value will have been Weimared into insignificance. Stocks, at least, can float along with the hyperinflation.

I've been looking into moving money abroad -- and it's sobering to discover that the Obama Administration has gotten there first. It's a lot harder to do that than it once was. Almost as if they expect a surge of capital flight.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 17, 2013 04:57 PM (qlMur)

115 **I don't know what on earth it will take to disabuse you of this notion. **

yeah, the voting public will do what the media complex tells them to do.

Or better yet, as the recent hurricane pork vote shows, the House will do what the media complex tells them to do. for the children.

There is no conservative movement because low info voters only get herded by Jon Stewart and co.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (QxSug)

116 Is that whistling I hear?

Posted by: The Graveyard at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (gCa4h)

117 Never let your investment guy pick your bonds. Ever.



I wonder how bonds in TX are looking right about now?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (ROv35)

118
People need something more concrete.

Freedom is abstract to these idiots, mostly because they take it for granted.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (9Q7Nu)

119 but I can give you November 2004 for a similar point -- after initially winning the war (we thought) in 2003, the insurgency engulfed the whole country in chaos and murder and thousands of US troops were killed and we were, indeed, back in another Vietnam, with our troops having vague and impossilbe missions ("protect all the local populace, always" and "capture and kill terrorists without harming innocents").
Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:49 PM (LCRYB)

That false meme is exactly what the left tried to push as the truth. Apparently they were successful.

Posted by: polynikes at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (m2CN7)

120 On one hand, people argue that the public likes free shit and socialism. On the other hand, a different group argues they only turn Republicans out of office when the Republicans disagree with Mark Levin.

Didn't we argue this out during Recriminations Week? We lost because they got their voters to the polls, and we didn't. The nation hasn't gone majority FSA, but we on the right have gone apathetic, or fatalistic, or LiFB or something.

Posted by: toby928© stabs at thee from hell's heart at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (evdj2)

121 Pro Tip:

Get out of the city.

---

Tip #2 - Red lights mean "stop if you want to"

Posted by: Reginald Denny at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (e0xKF)

122 and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon, if our theory of the world is right. if it can go on forever, then I guess we're wrong. But of course we're not wrong. It will close.
Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:50 PM (LCRYB)


--------------------------------------------------------


I'm very much afraid of the "closing" as you've put it. Considering what we know of 51% of the electorate now, we may get something that'll make even Baraka look good.

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (RFrso)

123 >>>>>but I can give you November 2004 for a similar point

I have no faith that events drive politics any more. You, I think, do.

I think those who support Obama and those who can be persuaded to support him (50%+1) are so insulated from events that events don't matter anymore. That has been the Democrats plan for decades--a populace so uninformed, so unmotivated and so insulated they can literally get away with murder.

There will be no "point" where the FSA says, "enough." We waited 4 years for such a thing promised to be coming any day.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (imtbm)

124 If the public were really insistent on firetruck-red conservatism -- preferring the true red version to the pinker variety -- for god's sakes, 2006-2012 wouldn't have happened.
Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (LCRYB)
There were those who insisted McCaskill was soooo hated that even Akin had a good shot to win.
He got fucking crushed. Because he was a lunatic and an ape. It did not matter that McCaskill was a liberal shill. Akin made himself worse.

If this country was as red-blooded as some people insist, that debacle would have still yielded a victory.

It didn't.

Berg had a WINNABLE race in North Dakota, a "red" state which voted for Romney by a sizable margin. He didn't bother to campaign, and he lost. Didn't matter the weight of the redness of his state. He stunk and lost.

If this country was truly conservative, there wouldn't be liberal Democrats representing West Virginia, Louisiana, and Arkansas.

Posted by: CAC at January 17, 2013 04:59 PM (SE7HH)

125 Whoops, that cartoon is even older. Published in you guessed it one of the Best Editorial Cartoons of the Year book - 1992.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 04:59 PM (Gyp4x)

126 >>>People need something more concrete.
Freedom is abstract to these idiots, mostly because they take it for granted.

Reality is Coming.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 04:59 PM (0q2P7)

127 But Bush lost support overall because the lefty media complex spent 7 years destroying him with every lie they could think of.

Posted by: joeindc44


It matters little but this is not true in two aspects; 1 ) Bush wasn't much of a domestic conservative, 2 ) He did little to explain his plans to the voters.

It wasn't the MSM that proposed and signed the No Child Left Behind failure. Neither did they create Medicare D, another free crack sample from the Welfare State. Ditto TSA, TARP, and few dozen other Statist programs.

Most americans weren't familiar with anything else, like Bush's new spending (let alone that 2006 was low point in deficits) because all the low info voter knew is that Jon Stewart was blasting bush as big deficit guy,etc

And Bush and the GOP did nothing to change the expectations or the perception.

I'm kind of disappointed in the theme of the hour that politicians have no agency in our Republic and that they are merely responding to voters pressing buttons.

A big part of leadership is collecting support and that, at a bare minimum, entails explaining what the fuck you are doing.

Yes, yes, Teh MSM is agin' us!

So what? Go around them, go through them, beat them up, sucker them in. Ridicule, attack, and embarrass.

That's not the politicians' job? Wrong. It is their job to reach the voters by any means necessary.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 17, 2013 05:00 PM (KDq5l)

128
Where Romney and Prince Reebus failed, I feel, was by not being frank and saying hey, the Democrats are SCREWING YOU, and here's how: ...

Talking about "freedom" and "plans for job creation" mean nothing to people. They respond to dollars and cents and stark data.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 05:00 PM (9Q7Nu)

129 Didn't we argue this out during Recriminations Week? We lost because they got their voters to the polls, and we didn't. The nation hasn't gone majority FSA, but we on the right have gone apathetic, or fatalistic, or LiFB or something.
Posted by: toby928© stabs at thee from hell's heart at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (evdj2)


-----------------------------------------------


Rush put it best: How do you run against Santa Claus?

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 05:00 PM (RFrso)

130 It's not going to burn--it will grind on and on.

Hell France and Greece are still sort of floating.

The Dissident Frogman--

Even the French have not yet managed to completely plunder and ruin their comparatively much weaker economy, and the good Lord knows they’ve been trying for the best of the last 80 years or so.

Just like in France, the rates of taxes, duties and fees unleashed upon the good folks of the US of A will not only augment, they will also metastasize over an incredibly varied and ever expanding range of products and services, in addition to your income and profits. You will suffocate under an unrelenting onslaught of new regulations, red tape and audits by a growing army of government agencies and bureaucrats all tasked with the mission of controlling that nothing passes through their nets, and punishing you ruthlessly for anything that does.

And still: you will live through it, and you will live well enough—for a given value of "well"—to never really have a legally and morally unquestionable motive to rise up in arms and go full scale de oppresso liber on the tyrant. This will not be, as many of you imagine when they think about France, North Korea only with more cheese, wine and broads who don’t shave their armpits. Instead, you will find yourself in a multi-generations limbo of "too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards"—as, ironically, a Libertarian once said.

Posted by: tasker at January 17, 2013 05:00 PM (r2PLg)

131 and really, if conservatives were so big on freedom, then why did Romney want to ban tampons?

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:01 PM (QxSug)

132 and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon, if our theory of the world is right.

The FSS is always open! Product selection and availability may ummm... "vary" from time to time.

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 17, 2013 05:01 PM (CIjnK)

133 IOW--

I don't think you will get--

The Grand Capitulation.

Posted by: tasker at January 17, 2013 05:01 PM (r2PLg)

134 The problem with the FSA is that they do not know how to survive. Any Okie or Redneck or even Mexican that can fish, hunt, and grow a garden can survive, Darnelle and Shakaykay not so much--BECAUSE their survival skills were ruthlessly pruned away by the Dems.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:01 PM (kXoT0)

135 Buying the house I've been renting this summer. I was trying to decide how much of my 401K I should withdraw for the down payment. It's looking like just pay the whole thing off and spend what I was paying monthly on guns, booze and long term food supplies.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 17, 2013 05:02 PM (81UWZ)

136 >>>and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon

Ah, but counting on the Free Shit Store to close soon is like betting against a Bear Market.
Odds are the Bear Market will last longer than your money and the odds of the Free Shit Store staying open a lot longer are substantially greater than the odds our country will survive.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 17, 2013 05:02 PM (imtbm)

137 124...If this country was truly conservative, there wouldn't be liberal Democrats representing West Virginia, Louisiana, and Arkansas.

But those states were dark Blue, not so long ago, CAC.
Their transformation to being red states, is still in progress.

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 05:02 PM (fH4X9)

138

already been working on that

hopefully people realized to liquidate pre-2013; as needed to avoid major tax hits

Posted by: beach thursday at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (LpQbZ)

139 **It's not going to burn--it will grind on and on. **

concur. And, bitches, your guns? They will be grabbed. And you will do nothing.

The FDR, Great Depression 1.0 model is now best case scenario (i.e., recovery in 20-30 years).

I think we should all be pegged as optimistic if we think we can avoid a lost century (and avoid civil war or avoid zimbabwe-ish racial strife)

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (QxSug)

140 Reality is Coming.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 04:59 PM (0q2P7)

Not fast enough

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (NzBQO)

141 and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon,

Time to stock up.

Posted by: Free Shit Army at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (wAQA5)

142 Is the Free Shit Store in the same strip mall as the Jerk Store?

Posted by: jakeman at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (96M6e)

143 "too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards"

Throw gas on the fire.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (CIjnK)

144
It's looking like just pay the whole thing off and spend what I was paying monthly on guns, booze and long term food supplies.

...and multiple layers of fortified defensive positions.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (AQWS5)

145 Not a Bush fan, but I think conservatives needed to see the real alternative of Obama before they understood that fiscally, Bush was actually not that bad, especially considering even with two wars we only had around $500 billion dollars a year in deficits. Take the wars out of the budget, and you'd probably be running surpluses. Taxes were low (maybe too low on the bottom) and the economy was growing. Yes, there was some pork that shouldn't have been there, but you really are talking about the what the federal government spends in a few hours in today's world.

Even before 9/11, Bush had a pretty good approval rating, it hovered near 60%. What killed Bush was he looked incompetent because of the War in Iraq going badly and then Katrina. He also lost his base when tried to get an Amnesty bill through and Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court.

Obama will never be a beloved President, and I could see America turning on him in a hurry. I don't see how the Fed is going to unwind it's monetary policies without creating havoc. Obama just hopes it doesn't come undone in the next 4 years.


Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (J1Do0)

146 142 Is the Free Shit Store in the same strip mall as the Jerk Store?

---

They've been picked over for years.

Posted by: George Costanza at January 17, 2013 05:04 PM (e0xKF)

147 and really, if conservatives were so big on freedom, then why did Romney want to bring back slavery?

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:04 PM (QxSug)

148 First off, the utilities will be seized. Screw it - Long story short, whatever Chavez did, our undocumented kenyan chavez will do.

Posted by: Whatev at January 17, 2013 05:04 PM (lreFA)

149
To them freedom is the ability to do whatever you want without suffering the consequences.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (o1kXv)

Work's for me.

Posted by: David Gregory at January 17, 2013 05:05 PM (mETGQ)

150 ...and multiple layers of fortified defensive positions.>>

I would but I lost my shipping container in an unfortunate boating accident.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 17, 2013 05:05 PM (81UWZ)

151 Shit. I know shit's bad right now, with all that starving bullshit, and
the dust storms, and we are running out of french fries and burrito
coverings.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 17, 2013 05:05 PM (ZKzrr)

152 Okay, how many times are we going to re-fight the Bush years? Well guess what, its in the past and non-fixable.

We are now in a canoe heading for Niagara Falls. Fighting over who got us there is not going to save us from going over. Lets concentrate on trying to steer to the shore. Then in our leisure we can have the circular firing squad.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 05:06 PM (Gyp4x)

153 and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon,

Dang, Obama must have made a campaign stop there.

Posted by: wth at January 17, 2013 05:06 PM (wAQA5)

154
In other words, you seem to think the public is broadly red-state conservative

You could put it that way, or I could put it this way:

Give me 100 employed or wannabe-employed people off the street. Any body. Ask them all if the if the notion of keeping more of the money they earn is something that appeals to them. 99 of them will answer in the affirmative.

Conservatism today suffers from a disconnect with the people. If we frame it properly, people would suddenly discover they're conservative.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 05:06 PM (9Q7Nu)

155 As for the correlation between stocks and bonds there isn't much of one. At least as long as the Fed still buys the majority of US Treasurys. As an investment US Treasurys suck and have for a long time. They are very riskey. They are as high as they are going to get and have a long way to fall when interest goes up and there is no upside.


So saying US Treasurys are a safe haven is bogus, unless you call having your money tied up for very low interest for the term of the bond you bought safe. You will get your money back but you would also get it back if you put it in a deposit box somewhere and you could get to it then without it costing you.


As for Obama's popularity, I don't believe the people who love him now will never fall out of love with him. Unless the entire house of cards collapses while he is still in office, which isn't likely.


Posted by: robtr at January 17, 2013 05:07 PM (rTgOf)

156 Since no one else has pointed this out...

The Financial Times is still a London-based outfit...and is in bed with Goldman-Sachs.

I am sure that they wouldn't mind seeinginvestors fleeingfrom US investments...to the warm, welcoming arms of theLSE.

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 05:07 PM (fH4X9)

157 I don't need no money, fortune, or fame.

I've got all the riches baby one man can claim.

I guess you'd say

What can make me feel this way?

My girl (my girl, my girl)

Talkin' 'bout my girl (my girl).

Posted by: Manti Te'o at January 17, 2013 05:07 PM (BVkEs)

158
But, yeah, if we don't shake this red-state perception we have, conservatism is going by way of the Dodo bird.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 05:07 PM (9Q7Nu)

159 Unfortunately, Ace is right. Thus the "Let It Burn" philosophy--stop saving them from their own stupidity, stash away skills and supplies against the inevitable, wait for the fire to clear the ground, then get out there and start rebuilding on a more responsible model. Yes, there will be competition; yes, they'll try to move just behind the flames--we should be ready for that, whatever it takes--but afterwards we can make a go at rebuilding it the way it should have been, and say, "See where that took you? Our way builds a future."

It's the only way at this point. Don't kid yourselves. Pain is the only teacher left, and not everyone will pass this test.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 17, 2013 05:07 PM (GBXon)

160 Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 17, 2013 05:00 PM (KDq5l)


-------------------------------------------------


In the early 2000's the repubs fumbled away the best opportunity for positive change we've had in 50+ years. And they're still staggering around wondering WTF.

Since then? We've paid the price by letting the RNC pick our candidates. Yeah. Mitt was so fucking electable.

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 05:07 PM (RFrso)

161 Oh please! Obama's support from the public will continue unabated for the same reason Bush's cratered so profoundly -- because people believe what they are told to believe by opinion-shaping media & culture.

We keep thinking at some point the majority will snap out of it, but that's not what mobs do. They continue until they destroy themselves or are subdued by a strongman.

As if five g-damned years of TFG shouldnt have been enough to clue people in.

Posted by: Sam in VA at January 17, 2013 05:08 PM (YCvRs)

162 joeindc has the right point: facts don't matter. The media controls reality now. If they say Bush is a failure long enough and loud enough, then people believe it.

Hell, I don't even know if Obama really won this last election. His media toadies say he did, and his political machine thugs have the ballots, but did an actual majority of Americans vote for him?

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 17, 2013 05:08 PM (qlMur)

163 I think the problem with "conservatism" is that we are completely unable to fight governing by panic as practiced by the regime.

and we want to ban tampons and decriminalize rape, so there's that too.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:08 PM (QxSug)

164 :::I don't think the broad public is terribly political. I think they are practical, results-driven. It's hard to move them on policy because they just don't have much interest in policy, ideology, or theory.

But they will take note of results, and change their minds according to that metric.::::

No. They want their free shit, Democrats will give it to them, and there are more of them than there are of us.

But never fear - word onthe street is that Rand Paul will be running in 2016, so we've got that going for us.

Dying cold and alone in the dark - we also have that going for us.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 17, 2013 05:08 PM (6BvQY)

165 My Grandfather had a good job during the depression and through the goodness of his heart--he supported FIVE families besides his own--all relatives to be sure and he had a company house, so that helped. Kept a roof over their head and plain food on their tables. My other Granparents had no job, but, they had 80 acres of Oklahoma land and they grew a garden and ate chickens/eggs and shot any wild turkeys and deer they could until things got better. I had one Uncle who after he got his first job post-Depression never ate chicken again.

Right here, right now, I support X number of families and I did not sign up to do it.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:08 PM (kXoT0)

166 Makes no difference, If, by the middle of this presidential term we still have expensive gas, high unemployment and dismal growth, the media will merely report on how great everything is (funemployment, anyone?) and how Obama is the bestest president everrrrr!
Problem solved, Democratic image problem never materializes. Bush was not hated because he was a mediocre president, he was hated because the Media hated him and trained everyone within earshot to hate him, too.

Posted by: West at January 17, 2013 05:09 PM (1Rgee)

167 157 I don't need no money, fortune, or fame.

I've got all the riches baby one man can claim.

I guess you'd say

What can make me feel this way?

My girl (my girl, my girl)

Talkin' 'bout my girl (my girl).
Posted by: Manti Te'o at January 17, 2013 05:07 PM (BVkEs)

___________________

I'm not really following that but--it's like a bad--

Weekend at Bernie's parody.

Posted by: tasker at January 17, 2013 05:09 PM (r2PLg)

168 Put on hannity just in time to hear Andrew Cuomo's speech about guns and it occurred to me that it sounds exactly the same as the Dean speech in 2004. The media made a huge deal out of that speech, how come, since the cuomo speech hannity plays/played has the same tone and cadence, they aren't making such a big deal out of the cuomo speech?

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 05:10 PM (/b8+5)

169 and really, if conservatives were so big on freedom, then why did Romney owned by Goldman Sachs when dear leader was willing to fight Goldman Sachs?

Plus, those 100,000 math and science teachers? Huh? Huh? Obamanomics doesn't sound so crazy when you factor in 100,000 math and science teachers (say, when is that bill going to be introduced by congress).

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:10 PM (QxSug)

170 and the Free Shit Store will be closing soon, if our theory of the world is right.

if it can go on forever, then I guess we're wrong.

But of course we're not wrong. It will close.
-------------------------
It only has to go on until the next president is sworn in.

Narcissists leave pitfalls for their successors so that they can control the outcome, enhancing themselves.

Posted by: MJ at January 17, 2013 05:10 PM (vl5mg)

171 #17, sven10077:

I can't find any Alberta bonds issued after 2010. That was to fund senior housing or some such. Or is there something else?

Posted by: Skookumchuk at January 17, 2013 05:10 PM (1WgIW)

172 Keep your hands off of my quinoa, or it's ON!

Posted by: Feisty Vegan at January 17, 2013 05:10 PM (w3+gB)

173
>>>I support X number of families and I did not sign up to do it.

That X looks a lot like a Dog Whistle to me.

Posted by: Toure at January 17, 2013 05:10 PM (AQWS5)

174 "You will have taken part in fundamentally transforming The United States of America!!"

Posted by: Baroke Owebama at January 17, 2013 05:11 PM (xmcEQ)

175 You know what's really pissing me off tonight? I can remember scrimping and saving to have my honeymoon in Hawaii, while my spawn, by nature of working for some branch of the state government, gets to take himself and his girlfriend (with a decidedly weak chin and an eating disorder I have yet to surreptitiously implant in her cranium) to Hawaii at state taxpayer expense. I don't even wanna mention when he'll be able to retire and at what % of his current earnings -- it would make you proles puke.

People, we are getting hosed. By people who look down their nose at each and every one of you. Why? Because it's worked so far for them. You can decide whether you've had enough, and decide to fight back, or you can bend over just a little more -- as the percentage of 'workers' in the government rises above its current 40% of total employed into some Orwellian number of unsustainability.

Posted by: A regular moron at January 17, 2013 05:12 PM (feFL6)

176 Obama won with a small margin but is governing like he won bigger than 2008. Hats off to him. Don't forget he has a media that absolutely defends Obama regardless of the facts. They will not criticism him or highlight bad news and we have the non-stories of rampant DC corruption, Fast and Furious, Holder's contempt, Al Qeada spreading all over the Middle East and Africa, the obvious failures in Afghanistan and the obvious poor economic performance since 2009. Anyone of these stories would have been worth months of media attention under a GOP Prez. Add this to I think a reluctance to forgive Bush for the terrible 2008 economic collapse and Obama does have the upper hand. Obama can't escape reality though and the media can't protect him from all catastrophe's.

Posted by: richardb at January 17, 2013 05:12 PM (f3GW1)

177 The media made a huge deal out of that speech, how come, since the cuomo speech hannity plays/played has the same tone and cadence, they aren't making such a big deal out of the cuomo speech?

---

Cuomo comes from a bona fide political family, has allies in the Clintons, and would be able to draw in a bunch of money through his position in New York.

Dean's support was generally a group of skeevy people who probably became occu-tards, had little party support, and comes from a state with little money or clout in Vermont.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 17, 2013 05:12 PM (e0xKF)

178 'Nothing ever becomes real till it is experienced - even a proverb is no proverb till your life has illustrated it.' - John Keats.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 05:13 PM (Gyp4x)

179 Trimeg, thanks but let's also take a step back. While I am selling dystopian landscape craziness here, let's realize:

1. Romney ran a flawed campaign. We painted Wisconsin red based on wedge issue like telling union thugs to suck it. Romney's wedge was his resume that he assumed we'd (i.e., low info voters) would magically read.

2. a lot of voter ID laws go into effect for 2014 (including PA)

3. a lot of post 2012 shit that was swept under rug is coming out now

4. the surviving breed of GOP politician (except for Boehner) is a hardier breed like Cruz and Perry. I regret Perry bashing everytime I read that he's sticking his thumb in Obama's eye.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:13 PM (QxSug)

180 Instead, you will find yourself in a
multi-generations limbo of "too late to work within the system, but too
early to shoot the bastards"—as, ironically, a Libertarian once said.

Posted by: tasker at January 17, 2013 05:00 PM (r2PLg)

This, a billion times. I've said it before: America won't end with a bang, but with a whimper. Or with France, take your pick.

Posted by: joncelli at January 17, 2013 05:14 PM (RD7QR)

181 >>>I support X number of families and I did not sign up to do it.

That X looks a lot like a Dog Whistle to me.

Posted by: Toure at January 17, 2013 05:10 PM (AQWS5)
Let me share my rectal insertion instructions for your Dog whistle with you, Toure, old chappie.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:14 PM (kXoT0)

182 Dying cold and alone in the dark - we also have that going for us.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 17, 2013 05:08 PM (6BvQY)


----------------------------------------------------


I guess that's better than being caught by roving youts with gas cans.

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 05:14 PM (RFrso)

183 re: "Self-interest will always prevail."

Yes. And material self-interest is weaker than affiliative self-interest. "Collective narcissism," as the old folks used to call it.

Disapproving of Obama puts you on the side he's beating--the side that History, The Future, and Progress have arrived to make losers of. The pool of possible volunteer spokesmen for that side is limited.

Fundamentally, the "practical result" people most truly value, that most interests their Self, is pathological sociality. Next time you're in a used and discredited (by History, The Future, and Progress) book store, pick up The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness by Erich Fromm. There's at least one big true thing in it.

Posted by: oblig. at January 17, 2013 05:15 PM (cePv8)

184 Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 17, 2013 05:12 PM (e0xKF)

Thank you for the explanation. The press makes it judgement then on who you are and who you know.

Have heard this is the only way to get a job out of college now.

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 05:15 PM (/b8+5)

185 There is a problem with the crater hypothesis, that will prevent it happening until you remove this veil--

"Dear America--what you wanted was a Hollywood movie similiar to "Remember the Titans" where we all get healed by letting a decent black man run things. And that's what you wanted in 2012 too. For the Hollywood ending.

Well, we're not going to get it. It doesn't matter why, though in my opinion it is because Denzel Washington just wanted to win football games and knew how to do it, whereas Barack Obama is, well, Barack Obama. But as I said--you're not going to get a Hollywood ending, because this is real life and Barack Obama is just a man, and in my opinion a flawed one, and the record shows it. At some pont it just ain't everybody else's fault. So...What are you going to do? Keep the coach because the script says he has to be the hero, or find a way for the team to win?"

Posted by: G. at January 17, 2013 05:15 PM (SFjrD)

186 I think the broader public is stupid, wants free shit, and is willing to bankrupt their non voting grandchildren to maintain their standard of living.

And I'm right

Posted by: Mr Pink at January 17, 2013 05:15 PM (vTKK3)

187 178
'Nothing ever becomes real till it is experienced - even a proverb is no
proverb till your life has illustrated it.' - John Keats.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 05:13 PM (Gyp4x)

----
Yeah, yeah, will you please quit piling on?

Posted by: Manti Te'o at January 17, 2013 05:15 PM (BVkEs)

188 Oh yeah, my point with **1. Romney ran a flawed campaign. We painted Wisconsin red based on wedge issue like telling union thugs to suck it. Romney's wedge was his resume that he assumed we'd (i.e., low info voters) would magically read. **

is that if the donks are going to run against Alabama (i.e., paint us as a bunch of Jesus Rape-bortion-ists) then let's run against California.

We won't win Cali. We won't win Manhattan. But we can run against them instead of trying to seek their approval.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:15 PM (QxSug)

189 Early Michael Ramirez on Elder Bush BDS
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1145/660/1600/elderbds.jpg

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 05:16 PM (Gyp4x)

190 >>>Reality is Coming.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 04:59 PM (0q2P7)
Not fast enough

Oh like so many things. The stories of old have to fade to legend, and from legend to myth, and then myth to disbelief. When the once vigilant order committed to watch over freedom dwindles in number, is reduced to a farce, whose ideals and mission is by and large is considered obsolete. Look at yourselves, do you not feel as if you stand upon that wall, warning of real threats beyond, the coming season of want, only to hear your cautions be dismissed as the rantings of the paranoid? Then they shall learn, oh the Others are real, and they HAVE raised a wight army from the shells of once vibrant living men and women.

It will be a cold bitter reality for us all.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 05:16 PM (0q2P7)

191
btw, I think Romney lost the general election long before the 47% remark.

I think Romney lost way back in the primaries when he made that idiotic $10,000 bet.


Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 05:16 PM (9Q7Nu)

192
Ace, you give the public way too much credit. As we've seen, they are easily led, love deception, and are generally too fucking stupid to know anything beyond when the next episode of American Idol is on and whatever a Kardashian is doing/screwing.

I'd be willing to place a bet with you that TFG ends with an approval rating at or above 50%. I have this cap from a Valu-Rite handle as my wager.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 17, 2013 05:16 PM (yiIja)

193 Alter your perspective a sec though it is not like we're extinct yet. Fact is it may well be time for us to acknowledge to the public that the democrats are correct they will brown America and turn ussocialist one visa lottery at a time. That wealth is immoral, that kulak er capitalists should have nothing "fair eleventy" shave the whales etc etc....

I'd posit that instead we should start focusing on an article V convention and have the divorce so we can see which system works better.

Let my people go.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:17 PM (f71cE)

194 let me throw you some bad news of the "Oh Shit!" variety: The price of beef is about to skyrocket.

When a meat packing plant in Texas has to idle their plant because their isn't enough cows, something is about to hit . . . .

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 17, 2013 05:17 PM (imtbm)

195 Seems like we're all agreed that the media are the problem. So let's fix that problem!

I've said it before. The media are the Democrats' biggest asset -- and their biggest vulnerability. It's time to start systematically destroying the media. Intel's a la carte cable proposal is one good solid blow -- once people no longer are forced to subsidize MSNBC it will dissipate like fog.

We also need to start taking down the most prominent media figures. Start rumors that Jon Stewart hates gay people, or that he's secretly a Scientologist. Make shit up, just as they do, and spread it around.

Do the ground work: get yourself signed up as a Wikipedia editor and put in half an hour a day for a month doing real, useful edits. Build up a little street cred, then start going after the liberal shits slanting entries and concealing facts there.

Hell, hire private investigators and find out some dirty secrets of producers and network execs -- because the faces on the screen are mostly brainless puppets. It's the producers who are the ones with the real power to slant the news.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 17, 2013 05:17 PM (qlMur)

196 139 --- "And, bitches, your guns? They will be grabbed. And you will do nothing."

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:03 PM (QxSug)

I agree about the slow rot.
I even agree that the blue tide sweeping the US will lead to serious gun control.
But I don't agree with the "do nothing." The federales will have to spill some serious blood on that one. Waco on steroids.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 17, 2013 05:18 PM (C8mVl)

197 **btw, I think Romney lost the general election long before the 47% remark.**

sigh

I would disagree, Romney didn't blast "you didn't build it," "bitter" "spread the wealth" as he should have.

But I thought the 47% comments were widely accepted. But I guess the low-info's were told the 47% speech was bad. And therefore it was.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:18 PM (QxSug)

198 When a meat packing plant in Texas has to idle their plant because their isn't enough cows, something is about to hit . . . . Posted by: RoyalOil at January 17, 2013 05:17 PM (imtbm)

Yup, drought and hay shortages have an effect on the pretty red stuff in the plastic wrapped Styrofoam packets at the grocery. Who knew?

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:19 PM (kXoT0)

199 I'm very much afraid of the "closing" as you've put it. Considering what we know of 51% of the electorate now, we may get something that'll make even Baraka look good.
Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 04:58 PM (RFrso)

Hey guys.

Posted by: Michelle O. at January 17, 2013 05:19 PM (t06LC)

200 194...let me throw you some bad news of the "Oh Shit!" variety: The price of beef is about to skyrocket.

When a meat packing plant in Texas has to idle their plant because their isn't enough cows, something is about to hit . . . .


Protein producers have been warning about this since the drought last summer.

A lot of cattle ranchers had to slaughter their herds prematurely, because the drought had wiped out the hay crops.

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 05:21 PM (fH4X9)

201 I think Romney lost way back in the primaries when he made that idiotic $10,000 bet.
Posted by: soothsayer at January 17, 2013 05:16 PM (9Q7Nu)

We will be enternally screwed if an out of context statement in jestis the cause of a loss compared to at least 10 much worse in context gaffe quotes by an opponent. Why even try?

Posted by: polynikes at January 17, 2013 05:21 PM (m2CN7)

202 I'm very concerned about the Great Depression scenario, not specifically the economic part, but the political part. Obama is "invested" in dependency, his FSA Feds on the fear that some Gorndon Gecko Republican is going to cut their benefits.

Look at what was critical to the Dims in the tax deal, not soaking the rich, as they trumpeted - but extending unemployment benefits. Why was that even in the tax deal, shouldn't it have been in the budget/debt ceiling crisis?

Posted by: Jean at January 17, 2013 05:21 PM (X1lGS)

203 This is all planned.

All your belongings are belong to us.

Posted by: © Sponge at January 17, 2013 05:21 PM (xmcEQ)

204 ** serious blood **

nope. not even close.

See 1917 russia. Gov't goes house to house, middle of night. No repercussions.

Each and every one of you prepper types should watch the last 10 minutes of Zero Dark Thirty (not the last last minute where red head slut realizes that OBL was her father all along and cries) but where seal team six slaughters every adult in OBL's crib.

That will be you. one by one. my point: whimper not bang.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:21 PM (QxSug)

205 Romney lost because he would fix everything and that would mean everyone has to suffer a little bit. Instead they chose the guy keeping it all afloat for now because they figure it will get better in the future. He's making sure everyone gets their entitlements and such, they figured romney would take it away. Problem is, if the rumor that they are going to raid pensions is true, they'll be some angry union members in DC.

But they won't, the republicans won't let that happen, they'll just cave as there is nothing worse than a cranky secretary. Problem is, they can claw it all back if they want anyway, precedent has been set. So they might be able to take all the money in all the government pensions as there is probably some fine print no one ever reads.

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 05:22 PM (/b8+5)

206 We are now in a canoe heading for Niagara Falls. Fighting over who got us there is not going to save us from going over. Lets concentrate on trying to steer to the shore. Then in our leisure we can have the circular firing squad.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 05:06 PM (Gyp4x)


Too late, we're just here for the ride now. By the time TFG is done we're gonna be at 20 trillion and counting. Ain't no way we can recover from that.

Posted by: cajun carrot at January 17, 2013 05:22 PM (UZQM8)

207 and btw, Zero Dark Thirty?

Major fucking boring.

She's denied Oscar because movie was bad, "story" was awful, character's had no arc. Well, except for Chris Pratt who learned to trust the CIA's red headed slut's hunch.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:22 PM (QxSug)

208 "Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:18 PM (QxSug)"


I disagree, but not for the reasons you're arguing against. We assumed Romney's political competence. We were wrong. He was never politically competent and therefore never had a chance.



He never had a chance.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 05:23 PM (ROv35)

209 What's up withe the Germans asking for their gold back, and the Feds saying no - you can't have it for seven years?

Posted by: Jean at January 17, 2013 05:23 PM (X1lGS)

210 Each and every one of you prepper types should watch the last 10 minutes of Zero Dark Thirty (not the last last minute where red head slut realizes that OBL was her father all along and cries) but where seal team six slaughters every adult in OBL's crib. That will be you. one by one. my point: whimper not bang.
Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:21 PM (QxSug)

Yeah, all 5.5 million of you.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:23 PM (t06LC)

211
See 1917 russia. Gov't goes house to house, middle of night. No repercussions.


The turn of the century Russian prol was not half so well armed.
Neither was OBL.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 05:23 PM (AQWS5)

212 http://youtu.be/lk_jK1RSOZs

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 17, 2013 05:23 PM (Gyp4x)

213 When a meat packing plant in Texas has to idle their plant because their isn't enough cows, something is about to hit . . . .

---

Looks like I need to take leave from work to go deer hunting and procure a substitute.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 17, 2013 05:23 PM (e0xKF)

214 **Romney lost because he would fix everything and that would mean everyone has to suffer a little bit.**

I concur a little bit.

Romney should've had a point in which he said "look, I know you're on welfare. The economy sucks. Stay on it for a while longer. It's going to take another year once I get elected to turn economy around. Until that time, don't worry, I will cut you some slack."

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:24 PM (QxSug)

215 RePOOPulate, we much!

Posted by: Rev. Al at January 17, 2013 05:25 PM (1FLBb)

216 I would disagree, Romney didn't blast "you didn't build it," "bitter" "spread the wealth" as he should have. But I thought the 47% comments were widely accepted. But I guess the low-info's were told the 47% speech was bad. And therefore it was.
Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:18 PM (QxSug)


--------------------------------------------------------


Romney was hamstrung from the beginning of his campaign as many of us knew he would be. Romneycare.

He held absolutely no high ground.

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 05:25 PM (RFrso)

217 >>>That will be you. one by one. my point: whimper not bang.

Nope.
Can't do it all at once without a fight.
Can't do it one at a time.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 05:25 PM (0q2P7)

218 Romney should have taken a play out of the Democratic handbook and pretended to give a shit about people on welfare and fucked them once in office.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:25 PM (t06LC)

219 Alberta bonds means Albertan Munis like edmonton and suc...my data on it was from 10 as well in case we lost the house race

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:25 PM (f71cE)

220 A lot of cattle ranchers had to slaughter their herds prematurely, because the drought had wiped out the hay crops.
Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 05:21 PM (fH4X9)

Yup, there is HAY RUSTLING going on in Oklahoma. People are cutting fences and stealing hay to keep their animals going. Somebody gonna get dead or beat to shit.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:26 PM (kXoT0)

221 5.5 million. Good point. IDK. I think what I am saying is that of 250 million guns and 5.5 million nra members, only 100 of "them" will resist. They will *** (can't do cross out in my browser) be submitted.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:26 PM (QxSug)

222 sven- OK, thanks. Sounds like a good idea, though.

Posted by: Skookumchuk at January 17, 2013 05:27 PM (1WgIW)

223 Romney should've had a point in which he said "look, I know you're on welfare. The economy sucks. Stay on it for a while longer. It's going to take another year once I get elected to turn economy around. Until that time, don't worry, I will cut you some slack."
Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:24 PM (QxSug)

If he would have done that the pure conservatives would have revolted even more than they did. And 'Romneycare' didn't even register a one on the election meter.

Posted by: polynikes at January 17, 2013 05:27 PM (m2CN7)

224
You know who has been talking about the plight of our Meat Producers...for the last few years?
Rick Perry.

He was against burning our corn for fuel...because of what it would do to the cost of producing Beef, Pork and Chicken.

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 05:28 PM (fH4X9)

225 Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:24 PM (QxSug)

It wasn't just those on welfare and social security. Middle class people voted against romney cause they wanted to have their benefits extended and extended and extended. They figured the republicans would cut them off and they haven't been able to find a job in 4 years so they figured even if the republicans created jobs the 4 year hiatus would end up hurting their chances for a new job. Some are barely holding onto their homes and so they voted against romney cause they felt the fix wouldn't benefit them.

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 05:28 PM (/b8+5)

226 shit. and during 2012, I was convinced that Romney was a winner who won because alpha male.

But now the thinking is he personally never had a chance (and Mr. Generic Republican T-paw quit way too early).

Why did Perry have to drink during the primary debates?

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:28 PM (QxSug)

227 We dutifully tuck cash into mutual funds every paycheck, but sometimes
wonder if its worth it....that was pounded into my head, invest early
and often and you will be in good shape for retirement. Still true?


It's no more or less true than it ever was. Here's a secret from someone nearing a quarter of a century in the investment business - nobody knows anything. Predicting the future of the markets is like predicting the future of anything else, it's bullshit. There are too many variables and too many market participants to think you can take today's news and tell what will happen next week or next year. Don't bother yourself with projections.

Smart investors manage risk. Define ahead of time the reason for pulling money out of stocks or bonds. I'm constantly amazed at people that buy insurance for their $40,000 car but trust in the altruism of the market to take care of their $1M investment portfolio. Protect your downside, preplan your exits, save aggressively.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at January 17, 2013 05:28 PM (+lsX1)

228
**Romney lost because he would fix everything and that would mean everyone has to suffer a little bit.**

I'd love to "suffer" with a decent job again.

Mitt lost because he couldn't say what needed to be said about just about everything the Prog/Coms have done to the economy since '07. He never said we don't have to have millions out of work, or a sky high debt. He never said we could all have a decent job if Washington would GTF out of the way.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 17, 2013 05:29 PM (yiIja)

229 210 Joly Roger,

It's like this if he's right, I'm doomed but will one day maybe in 200 years will be "the noble savage" they seem so prone to wank to, but if I'm right we'll have our berlin wall moment.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:29 PM (f71cE)

230
>>>I think what I am saying is that of 250 million guns and 5.5 million nra members, only 100 of "them" will resist.

There's well over 100 in every valley of the West.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 05:29 PM (AQWS5)

231 "If he would have done that the pure conservatives would have revolted even more than they did. And 'Romneycare' didn't even register a one on the election meter.



Posted by: polynikes at January 17, 2013 05:27 PM (m2CN7)"




Because it meant Obamacare, the biggest piece of leverage in the campaign, couldn't even be on the table.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 05:29 PM (ROv35)

232 But I don't agree with the "do nothing." The federales will have to spill some serious blood on that one. Waco on steroids.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 17, 2013 05:18 PM (C8mVl)

Waco on steroids? Soon, I'm guessing. Even now, I'm betting some heavily armed religious cult in Utah or militia group in rural Michigan or Kentucky is being cased by the feds as a possible target. Whoever these poor doomed souls turn out to be, they'll need to be fringe and extremist enough to paint all gun-owners everywhere as fringe and extremist. Nothing like women and children backshot and burned alive to remind us of who's in charge. What were Waco and Ruby Ridge but examples? And--as we all know--examples must be made to keep the plebes in line.

I disagree with those who think the country willsink into a slow downward spiral of decline, out with a whimper not a bang. That isn't our way. When we go, we go hard.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 05:30 PM (vtiE6)

233 Caustic. Maybe. I think I agree. My point was that, welfare state-light is here for a little while longer, as long as Romney didn't scare people, then good.

But if we just need another 4 years of welfare for everyone, then we're just fucked anyway.

Basically, as I said a year ago, just give any GOP president 14 months for recovery and job growth, so don't kick people off welfare until after that growth inflection. But...whatever, romney wanted to ban tampons and thus obama was elected

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:30 PM (QxSug)

234 The stories of old have to fade to legend, and from legend to myth, and then myth to disbelief.

Let the Reagan ride again on the winds of Time...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, Meadow Party 2016 at January 17, 2013 05:31 PM (GBXon)

235 226...Why did Perry have to drink during the primary debates?

He was on pain meds and recovering from back surgery...not from drinking.

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 05:31 PM (fH4X9)

236 I think what we need is "Comprehensive, Common Sense Approach" to a regime change.

Posted by: Ronster at January 17, 2013 05:32 PM (JgkPs)

237 @221
Nah the 5.5 million comes from the fact there are 55 million (or more) households with guns. From an earlier thread we guestimated that maybe 10% would resist. Thats 5.5 million. It depends. If something goes down they'll try and make it big and splashy like Waco. Find some cult somewhere and hit them.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:32 PM (t06LC)

238 Romney lost for a variety of reasons. He was too damn smart, White, and filthy rich with a gorgeous wife and photogenic family for one thing. You would be surprised at the number of people who think HipHop moguls being rich is AOK, but, guys who built a fortune through growing businesses are WRONG. He did not go after obama hard enough, he made that classic mistake that GOPers over 55 make--you have to be nice to the Dims or it will hurt you? How could being just as mean to the damn Dims as he was to his primary opponents hurt him worse than being nice hurt him?

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:32 PM (kXoT0)

239 Yup, there is HAY RUSTLING going on in Oklahoma. People are cutting fences and stealing hay to keep their animals going. Somebody gonna get dead or beat to shit.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:26 PM (kXoT0)


------------------------------------------------


My cousin who's a wheat farmer in northwestern Ok also runs a few cows. He's having the same problem. He's laid out waiting for them on many a night, but a farmer can't do that all the time. Chaos.

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 05:32 PM (RFrso)

240 If he would have done that the pure conservatives would have revolted even more than they did. And 'Romneycare' didn't even register a one on the election meter.
Posted by: polynikes at January 17, 2013 05:27 PM (m2CN7)
---

Seems like a "True Conservative" shows up at least once each thread to shit on everybody else without offering any constructive input. Romney should have played to win and told the "True Conservatives" (not to be confused with, you know, actual conservatives) to "Fuck right off now, thanks." Anyway, Romney blew it, as did the GOP.

Time to stop protecting the plebs from themselves and let them experience the full force progressivism that they've wrought, as long as it doesn't infringe on the Bill of Rights.

LiB.
See sven for details.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 17, 2013 05:33 PM (1FLBb)

241 The price of beef is about to skyrocket.

I thought it already did. Shit.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 17, 2013 05:33 PM (ZKzrr)

242 Because it meant Obamacare, the biggest piece of leverage in the campaign, couldn't even be on the table.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 05:29 PM (ROv35)

Romney put it on the table by saying his first action as President would be to dismantle it. That didn't matter thoughbecause that is not what the Independent / undecided voter paid attention to since Obamacare hadn't taken effect. The only people who said Romneycare hurt Romney was his conservative opponents.

Posted by: polynikes at January 17, 2013 05:33 PM (m2CN7)

243 @223. Well. shit. As it was, the autopsy results for Romney campaign are unknown. Did cons stay home, did evangelicals.

or, as some of us think...did EVERYONE vote, and it was still not enough. cough cough voter fraud.

anyway. if you are a conservative and you stayed home because Romney was icky, then your brain doesn't work. (Romney + a bit of blue state concessions) >>>> Obama.

Of course, I think Romney should have picked up the Wisconsin Scott Walker mantle and ran against California (i.e., public sector thugs) but whatever, he didn't ask*

*actually, I just checked my spam folder and he did ask me, but I never got to tell him. So sorry, America, I could've fixed everything after all.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:34 PM (QxSug)

244 "But they will take note of results, and change their minds according to that metric."

Shorter: Let it burn.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at January 17, 2013 05:34 PM (zpqa2)

245 Really? If not by the end of four years of nearly unrestricted power, then when?

Posted by: epobirs at January 17, 2013 05:34 PM (kcfmt)

246 My cousin who's a wheat farmer in northwestern Ok
also runs a few cows. He's having the same problem. He's laid out
waiting for them on many a night, but a farmer can't do that all the
time. Chaos. Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 05:32 PM (RFrso)


They put GPS trackers on some big round bales here in the Tulsa area and caught some that way.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:35 PM (kXoT0)

247 Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:30 PM (QxSug)

I feel as though it's all being kept together like people do when they have too many bills and not enough income coming in. People begin to buy food on credit and they begin to pay one credit card off with another credit card, essentially robbing peter to pay paul. It almost feels like this is how it's all being kept afloat.

Romney started getting all kinds of briefings. The more briefings he got, the more obviously reticent he became. He didn't fight back because he didn't have it in him to fight back, it's not how the republicans or conservatives conduct themselves. They are incapable of outrageous lieing, they are incapable, for the most part, of doing the wrong thing. With these character, moral restrictions, it's hard to win in a dirty fight.

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 05:35 PM (/b8+5)

248 5.5 million + X amount of guns owned + Y amount of ammo = A shitload of firepower

Posted by: CraigPoe at January 17, 2013 05:35 PM (BVkEs)

249 >>>Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:26 PM

The problem with your chain of events is how US law works. And how American guns hold a different place than say Guns in Russia or even Australia. In those nations the people with guns were USED to being subjects.

It hasn't happened here because we are different. That's why the US "gun culture" is persona non gratis throughout the socialist world. We've stalwartly resisted the slippery slope of disarmament longer than any other modern nation. Have a little hope that we have the fortitude to continue to do so.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 05:35 PM (0q2P7)

250 and look. you're brains aren't working on gun grabbing. If you're talking about the hinterlands as the last line of defense, then you've already lost. When Yonkers or Medford or San Diego is revolting over gun grabbing, then maybe something interesting is happening.

But again. Obey, citizens, dear leader only cares for your safety.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:36 PM (QxSug)

251 Romney put it on the table by saying his first action as President would be to dismantle it. That didn't matter thoughbecause that is not what the Independent / undecided voter paid attention to since Obamacare hadn't taken effect. The only people who said Romneycare hurt Romney was his conservative opponents.


Right, and the MBM took him to task, rightfully so for it. There were plenty of MBMers who said Romneycare hurt Romney. Not just your conservative bogeymen. How often did you hear Obamacare come up in the debates? The ads?



Like I said, the biggest piece of leverage - off the table.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 05:36 PM (ROv35)

252 C'mon, people. This is not the hill to die on.

Posted by: The Weeper at January 17, 2013 05:36 PM (RFrso)

253
Considering both sides, I go with Soothy. Even though Odictator lost 10 million votes (or whatever), the nation has changed.

We said the same things that by the end of his 3rd year or by the election, didn't happen.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 17, 2013 05:37 PM (p/cQy)

254 @249, I read that Pravda article, you know? I'm not saying, I'm just saying is all. We'd be better off relying on House GOP to stand firm, push back against Obama with some blue dogs*.

* they exist on this issue, right?

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:38 PM (QxSug)

255 Yesterday Bob Beckel described the economy to be in a "strong recovery"... and he was being sincere.

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 17, 2013 05:38 PM (UypUQ)

256 238 Romney lost for a variety of reasons. He was too damn smart, White, and filthy rich with a gorgeous wife and photogenic family for one thing. You would be surprised at the number of people who think HipHop moguls being rich is AOK, but, guys who built a fortune through growing businesses are WRONG. He did not go after obama hard enough, he made that classic mistake that GOPers over 55 make--you have to be nice to the Dims or it will hurt you? How could being just as mean to the damn Dims as he was to his primary opponents hurt him worse than being nice hurt him?
-------

^This.^

Romney brought a silk hanky...to a down-and-dirty street fight.

He made a few 'controversial comments' about Benghazi...which got him some press...and then withdrew from doing it anymore.
Wrong move.

He should've been making those 'controversial comments' every fucking day.

When the MFM is trying to ignore you...then making controversial comments is the way to make themgive you coverage.

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 05:38 PM (fH4X9)

257
5.5 million + X amount of guns owned + Y amount of ammo = A shitload of firepower

It's also worth noting that the Government buys their ammo and arms from us.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 05:38 PM (AQWS5)

258 240 not so ready to unsock,

Thing'l take care of themselves start talkng up state patriotism over national, regional aliances versus bad actors.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:38 PM (f71cE)

259 @250

What about the states of Wyoming and Texas arresting federales who try to gun grab?
That do anything for you?

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:38 PM (t06LC)

260 The thing about Bob Beckel is he's a fat fucking idiot.

Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 05:39 PM (AQWS5)

261 It hasn't happened here because we are different. That's why the US "gun culture" is persona non gratis throughout the socialist world. We've stalwartly resisted the slippery slope of disarmament longer than any other modern nation. Have a little hope that we have the fortitude to continue to do so.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 05:35 PM (0q2P7)


-----------------------------------------------


The run on guns and ammo after Newtown has given me a bit more hope that Americans still have the capacity to resist.

Posted by: Soona at January 17, 2013 05:39 PM (RFrso)

262 and remember, in mid 2012, Ace was so confident that he was joking about ways that Romney could fuck things up to make the election close, so as to be interesting.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:40 PM (QxSug)

263 So if our GDP isn't keeping pace with population growth, tsn't that net negative growth, i.e. recession? Depression?



One of you smart Morons put me some fuckin' knowledge here.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 05:40 PM (ROv35)

264 250 JoeinDC,

Good luck eating without our crops.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:40 PM (f71cE)

265 It hasn't happened here because we are different.
That's why the US "gun culture" is persona non gratis throughout the
socialist world. We've stalwartly resisted the slippery slope of
disarmament longer than any other modern nation. Have a little hope that
we have the fortitude to continue to do so.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose of House Stark at January 17, 2013 05:35 PM (0q2P7)
Yup, even Australians calmly and voluntarily turned in their guns. WTF? I do not plan to turn mine in...first they need to prove to me that I have them. I had them stolen by a cleaning lady, lost them in the move from one house to another, my dog ate them, whatever....

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:40 PM (kXoT0)

266 It hasn't happened here because we are different.
That's why the US "gun culture" is persona non gratis throughout the
socialist world. We've stalwartly resisted the slippery slope of
disarmament longer than any other modern nation. Have a little hope that
we have the fortitude to continue to do so.


Posted by Mike the Moose t January 17, 2013 05:35 PM (0q2P7)

I will point out that two of the nations where Socialist revolution occurred -France, Russia- had something in common...

Peasants.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 05:40 PM (bb5+k)

267 @264
Or fueling tanks, planes, drones, or heating cities without our fuel (over 50% of the US's refineries are on the gulf coast)

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:42 PM (t06LC)

268 Do people who think the country "has changed" believe Obama would've been a lock to win sans Hurricane Sandy?

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 17, 2013 05:43 PM (UypUQ)

269 sven, the hinterlands revolt model. I counter with the Ukraine famine. Or the Irish famine. Where the starving sectors still export food. Odd how that happens.

But yeah, sven, we are so fucked out here if SHTF. My only point is: the feds are scary, the dont' care about you. at all.

Related point. Anyone see that documentary on Raw Milk, how the USDA and various state governments are sending SWAT teams to bust people selling raw milk?

yeah. a lot easier than busting mexican drug cartels or street gangs.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:44 PM (QxSug)

270
Like I said, the biggest piece of leverage - off the table.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 17, 2013 05:36 PM (ROv35)

In 1992, George HW Bush could not call Bill Clinton a pathological and habitual liar. Why?

"Read My lips... No new taxes!"

It wasn't the making of that promise which was a mistake, it was the breaking it to make a deal with the Democrats.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 05:44 PM (bb5+k)

271 230 --- "There's well over 100 in every valley of the West."
Posted by: garrett at January 17, 2013 05:29 PM (AQWS5)

Not to mention the hollows of Appalachia.
Good luck with that.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 17, 2013 05:44 PM (C8mVl)

272 I keep saying over and over to anyone who lives in a Blue State, get on your state and local election boards. In every major city in Blue States, the damn Dims count the ballots until they get the number they want and need and we let them.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wily Wrepublican Wench at January 17, 2013 05:45 PM (kXoT0)

273 267 Jollyroger,

We're already nation, the blue hold our incomes prisoner with agw hysteria.

The Red unfettered eat the blue economically.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:45 PM (f71cE)

274 I remember that first debate.

Good times.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at January 17, 2013 05:46 PM (zpqa2)

275 I don't for sure know it has changed.

It has traditionally been really hard to unseat an incumbent. We started believing that O was toast without factoring in the power of the incumbency. We're pretty dispirited today, but not much has really changed prior to the election.

Shit, after all the free press (who went full tank), the rally effect of Sandy, a screwed up nominee who wasn't even loved by his base, and a billion dollar campaign we only lost by a handful.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:46 PM (t06LC)

276 Good luck eating without our crops.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:40 PM (f71cE)

They will do what Stalin did to the Ukraine.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 05:46 PM (bb5+k)

277
Do people who think the country "has changed" believe Obama would've been a lock to win sans Hurricane Sandy?


Posted by: Serious Cat at January 17, 2013 05:43 PM (UypUQ)

I think the hurricane is the most ridiculous excuse for Romney's loss, yes.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at January 17, 2013 05:48 PM (zpqa2)

278 If you're talking about the hinterlands as the last line of defense, then you've already lost. When Yonkers or Medford or San Diego is revolting over gun grabbing, then maybe something interesting is happening. But again. Obey, citizens, dear leader only cares for your safety.
Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:36 PM (QxSug)

Hard to follow your logic. Maybe it's your use of the term 'hinterlands', which would pretty much define the living space of those who lean Republican in elections, or maybe it's your claim that unlessblue state bastions such as New York or California are actively protesting or resisting stringent gun control measures, then resistance would futile.

I don't know about you, but I don't take lessons in resistance from New York or California.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 05:48 PM (vtiE6)

279 **276 Good luck eating without our crops.**

actually, the new DNC model is to do to Iowa what we did to the Iroquois nation. Let's just move a couple million Somalis into your cities and let them live on the dole for life while making sure they get bussed to the polling station every 4 years with a DNC approved voter instruction card.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:49 PM (QxSug)

280 @273
Amen to that brother.

@269
I see your point, though you're not thinking civil war where every inch of road on to the target is enemy territory, and any Waco style seige might be broken. I don't really like war gaming these things, but a mass event like you describe would be a far wider reaching action.
A lot of people won't be happy about confiscation. A lot of cops and military will uphold thier oath above blatently unconstitutional orders.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:50 PM (t06LC)

281
I don't know about you, but I don't take lessons in resistance from New York or California.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 05:48 PM (vtiE6)

By the Way, no one was killed in the bombardment of Ft. Sumter. Just a bunch of rock walls blasted.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 05:51 PM (bb5+k)

282 250--- "If you're talking about the hinterlands as the last line of defense, then you've already lost."
Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:36 PM (QxSug)

I never said that we would win.
I just said that there would be a lot of blood.
"Hinterland" blood, if you will.

Bill Ayers knows this.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 17, 2013 05:52 PM (C8mVl)

283 269 JoeinDC,

I trained the keystone kommandoes for a bit. Five subskill level 30 infantryman stood up several doze federal agents including their HTRTs. Don't make me your enemy.

I'll die for this country against any outsider but perhaps the UK and Canada. I'll honor my oath to the document, the founding, and Locke's notion of individual liberty against anyone on this earth.

You get to the point you're attacking farmers I'll part their fucking hairs.

No more Waco's.

Regards,
Sven

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 05:52 PM (f71cE)

284 278. Remember in Casablanca where Rick told Nazi, don't bring that shit into some neighborhoods in NYC?

IDK, I forget what the point was. Basically, whimper not bang.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:52 PM (QxSug)

285 All of this about what Romney "should" have done ignores the reality that maybe our electorate is the real problem.

It's sort of like saying California is dominated by Democrats because the Republicans suck at campaigns. No, it's because California is full of batshit crazy parasites, thus Democrats get elected. It's the same with Obama, Romney is not the problem, any other time in American history, a matchup like that would have played out like Nixon vs McGovern. Nixon was anything but perfect, yet America was still a sane nation then.

America WAS for nearly all my life a center-right nation, but the last two elections showed that we're now closer to 50 states of California.

If you have to run the perfect candidate with the perfect campaign to narrowly beat a President with 8% plus unemployment, record food stamps, Benghazi, Solyndra, Fast and Furious, and trillion dollar deficits, you're looking at the wrong problem.


Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 05:53 PM (J1Do0)

286 It doesn't matter how bad the economy is. The media will alternate between saying "Everything is great!!!" and "The Republicans are obstructing the recovery!" and enough people will believe them.

Posted by: Norcross at January 17, 2013 05:53 PM (MbUq6)

287 A lot of people won't be happy about confiscation. A
lot of cops and military will uphold thier oath above blatently
unconstitutional orders.

Posted by: Jollyroger at January 17, 2013 05:50 PM (t06LC)

I will be shocked if they do. Most of them didn't give a crap as to whether Obama was even eligible for office. They simply took the word of the talking heads rather than find out for themselves.

Certainly no proof had bee placed on the table prior to the election. (And Dubious proof since.)



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 05:54 PM (bb5+k)

288 **A lot of cops and military will uphold thier oath above blatently unconstitutional orders.**

That's the problem I see.

But I think I read you 5x5 on no wacos.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 05:55 PM (QxSug)

289 The error in 2012, Ace, was seeing things like the 2010 election, the Scott Brown election and the Scott Walker recall-fail as saying much about the 2012 Presidentials. The GOP did well in all of those, even back to Chris Christie winning in 2009. The error (my error) was in seeing local and state elections as representative of national electorate mood and projecting an uphill battle for Barack Obama.

Those elections were never about national mood. They turned out to be about local issues and some of them (the Scott Walker recall, for example) were fairly low-turnout affairs. What looked like a national data set was in fact not. Wisconsin may not have wanted to ditch its GOP governor, but it didn't want to elect Mitt Romney either.

The 2012 election results should not be subjected to the same flawed analysis and projection. Why did Obama win? Because OFA >> Orca. The difference is that Obama was actually ON the ticket in 2012 and his organization went out and went to bat for him like Prince Fielder on a hanging curve.

I think you're right and that a realignment may be coming. If we pick candidates that aren't BSC and get some articulation out of GOP Senators and Congressman of a different view of what's wrong and how to fix it then 2014 may look a lot like 2010. Time is not on BHO's side, and current events aren't doing him a lot of favors either. When you've lost Obamaphone Lady, you've lost a lot -- but Obama isn't even on the ballot in 2014. His charm is limited to his races, it's potent but it's also hard to see where he helped much of anyone on the D side get into office from 2008-2012. A polarizing issue like Obamacare is not really in the offing if Harry Reid can sit on Dianne Feinstein and the House GOP can fold its hands on the gun control issue, but economic failure may return with a vengeance and that may be enough.

Posted by: Darren at January 17, 2013 05:57 PM (cKoDv)

290 Not to mention the hollows of Appalachia. Good luck with that.

Revenoors are coming for your guns & whisky. Results?
Mountain William 1
Revenoors 0

Posted by: rickb223 at January 17, 2013 05:57 PM (pz3Br)

291 Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 05:53 PM (J1Do0)


I agree. The Electorate has been made stupid/misinformed by the Education system and the Media. I think they cannot be saved. All we can do is hope the crash kills the worst of them.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 05:58 PM (bb5+k)

292 Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 05:53 PM (J1Do0)

Look what happened in england. They opened the doors wide to immigrants and now they are the minority and they don't recognize their country.

The democrats are doing this here. If you bring in folks who thought their socialist government was just fine and want to recreate it here, then you have a problem. People used to emigrate here because they thought this was the best country in the world, they wouldn't change a thing. Now they are recruited and they don't have that need to leave something behind, they thought the something behind was peachy.

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 06:00 PM (/b8+5)

293 250 margarita deville,

Mr. 25 million himself. People have a choice: will you stand idly by if it comes to that or are you going to risk being one of the 25 million?

We are who we are, they are who they are, and I know where I stand.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:00 PM (f71cE)

294 But if it makes you feel any better, once FSA runs out of money and SHTF, the feds won't really care about what's going outside of the US's top 5 cities. And I wish I had the dough to be prepared for that. I just hope the rest of the country is charitable to let me join them when it does.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:01 PM (QxSug)

295 **Look what happened in england. They opened the doors wide to immigrants and now they are the minority and they don't recognize their country.**

Oddly enough, the other side of the Iron Curtain never took up this idiocy that the made their useful idiots do here.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:02 PM (QxSug)

296 Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:01 PM (QxSug)


Are you really in DC ?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:02 PM (bb5+k)

297 We are who we are, they are who they are, and I know where I stand.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:00 PM (f71cE)

Quotable. Stealing it.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 06:02 PM (vtiE6)

298 Quotable. Stealing it.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 06:02 PM (vtiE6)

Not going to get a rise out of you this time, eh?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:03 PM (bb5+k)

299 294 But if it makes you feel any better, once FSA runs out of money and SHTF, the feds won't really care about what's going outside of the US's top 5 cities. And I wish I had the dough to be prepared for that. I just hope the rest of the country is charitable to let me join them when it does.

------------

I wouldn't keep using that word...."hinterlands".

It's as elitist as calling us "hickville".

Posted by: wheatie at January 17, 2013 06:05 PM (fH4X9)

300 for real reals...

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:06 PM (QxSug)

301 for real reals...

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:06 PM (QxSug)

Any chance you could give me a quote for some research at the national archives?


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:07 PM (bb5+k)

302 you can't afford me (seriously) and you'd be better off using craigslist or fiverr

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:09 PM (QxSug)

303 I contend that Obama is unique in that his celebrity aura and the media's refusal to puncture that mystique grants him a ~5% polling handicap. There is always a portion of voters who refuse to vote against the grain of popular opinion.

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 17, 2013 06:09 PM (UypUQ)

304
you can't afford me (seriously) and you'd be better off using craigslist or fiverr

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:09 PM (QxSug)

I could probably afford you, but I'm always interested in a bargain, and it sounds like it wouldn't be.
Oh well, i'll keep looking. You might have found it interesting though.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:10 PM (bb5+k)

305 @303 from the swpls and other dunderheads out here driving SL500s a G55's with Obama stickers on it, the rich white leftist is quite taken with dear leader. From my conversations with the mentally ill, it's love, pure and simple. Dear Leader is not only always right, he is surrounded by enemies who have caused his impotence to change our lives for the better.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:12 PM (QxSug)

306 Not going to get a rise out of you this time, eh?
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:03 PM (bb5+k)

I'm knee-jerk that way, I know, butwe can't fight the Civil War forever. Not that Civil War, anyway.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 06:13 PM (vtiE6)

307
I'm knee-jerk that way, I know, butwe can't fight the Civil War forever. Not that Civil War, anyway.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 06:13 PM (vtiE6)

I'm half way afraid we have one coming. I see an economic crash coming, and people in big cities won't be content to die quietly.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:14 PM (bb5+k)

308 299 wheatie,

they can call us wahtever the fuck they want, I know our regions get resources and want real growth.

They are in thrall of a malthusian Death's Cult's book of revelations and are trying to destroy our region.

You think even the impoverished minorities in the gulf coast would not rather have an oil boom?

I know black roughnecks who are pissed off at "them" they need educated who "them" really is and that I am not a KKK asshole I am a capitalist asshole.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:22 PM (LRFds)

309 I'm half way afraid we have one coming. I see an economic crash coming, and people in big cities won't be content to die quietly.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:14 PM (bb5+k)

There's something Big and Bad coming for sure, but what shape it'll take is anyone's guess. Magic 8-Ball says COME BACK LATER.

Posted by: troyriser at January 17, 2013 06:23 PM (vtiE6)

310 297 troyriser,

Feel free....I'm a non profit moron....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:23 PM (LRFds)

311 291 diogenes lamp,

I think that enough of them in the red states are salvageable that if we divorce we will have about a generation of shaking the bullshit out of their ears.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:25 PM (LRFds)

312
There's something Big and Bad coming for sure, but what shape it'll take is anyone's guess. Magic 8-Ball says COME BACK LATER.

Posted by: troyriser January 17, 2013 06:23 PM (vtiE6)

"Choose the form of the Destructor."
"The Choice is made!"
"You mean?"
"Yes, the Stay puft marshmallow man."

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:29 PM (bb5+k)

313 http://tinyurl.com/cpz4bu

Posted by: what? at January 17, 2013 06:31 PM (/b8+5)

314
I think that enough of them in the red states
are salvageable that if we divorce we will have about a generation of
shaking the bullshit out of their ears.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:25 PM (LRFds)

Not till we can win access to the airwaves. Even if we get access, we can't just talk at em, we have to teach with entertainment.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:31 PM (bb5+k)

315 "Yes, the Stay puft marshmallow man."

This should win the Internet today.

From now on, we'll talk about fighting the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man as the thing destroying America.

Posted by: joeindc44 wonders if anyone has any advice for the GOP at January 17, 2013 06:34 PM (QxSug)

316 303
I contend that Obama is unique in that his celebrity aura and the
media's refusal to puncture that mystique grants him a ~5% polling
handicap. There is always a portion of voters who refuse to vote against
the grain of popular opinion.


Posted by: Serious Cat

That's definitely part of it, I have zero doubt had we gone against say someone like Cuomo, Romney would have won because the low info voters would have probably not made it to the polls.

The other part of the equation is Senate races really broke against us, even in "deep Red" states. SoCon idiocy cost us at least 2 of those, and I firmly believe it spilled over into all the races at the margins.

Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 06:35 PM (J1Do0)

317 Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:31 PM (bb5+k)

Don't think controlling the media matters.

Saying this cause I've noticed thta a lot of normal every day low information people have started asking about the electronic voting machines in mixed company. It's an odd topic to bring up when you are among friends ostensibly having fun. Makes you wonder what is going on in their little brains.

They've also been asking about our debt, almost like they are suddenly realizing that we have debt.

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 06:37 PM (/b8+5)

318 314 Diogenes Lamp,

If there are "two Americas" I'm pretty sure that the NEA of mine will look like this one's and that the News will not be dominated by assholes.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:42 PM (LRFds)

319 317 Caustic,

I believe that there are a lot of people stranded on welfare that want out, I also believe there are white grifters who are on social security diability and do not want off.

Red States should start funding make work machining and electrical work vocational rehab.

We cannot beat these bastards by cold stopping the mega welfare pork cannon barry unleashed, BUT we can and should run a smarter wean and bleed off welfare state where we have the ball.

The states need to start fostering loyalty to the state over loyalty to the whole.

We need to start selling the poor we know on the notion that Indiana problems are not California problems and that you have more control over the near politicians than ones in the swamp.

Those are simple ideas that alter the battlescape back to us.

Fuck the left, welfare is a fallback position not a goddamned maginot line.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:46 PM (LRFds)

320
The other part of the equation is Senate races
really broke against us, even in "deep Red" states. SoCon idiocy cost us
at least 2 of those, and I firmly believe it spilled over into all the
races at the margins.



Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 06:35 PM (J1Do0)

I tend to agree. It definitely cost two Senate seats, and it very likely cost the election. I am still utterly disgusted that those two were that stupid. I don't blame them for being Pro-Life, but I blame them for not realizing that the rest of the country doesn't and likely never will, go quite so far as they do in their own personal opinions.

They ought to have known better, both of them. It was a colossally stupid and hurtful ( to the entire nation) mistake on their part.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:49 PM (bb5+k)

321 I totally disagree with an unwritten premise of this article: that the media is fair. After Bush was re-elected, the liberal media became absolutely unhinged. THAT is what terrified the American people. As far as most people were concerned, things were going good. But there were a very large number of shrieking liberals hysterical over... well, something. Most people figured, where there's smoke, there's probably something, right? All these people wouldn't be going insane over nothing, would they?

That is the primary reason the large swath of uninformed people in the middle fled to the Democrats. Now that liberals know what works, don't expect them to give it up anytime soon. They'll just repeat the lies more loudly and more vociferously now.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 17, 2013 06:53 PM (Tt6ky)

322
Those are simple ideas that alter the battlescape back to us.

Fuck the left, welfare is a fallback position not a goddamned maginot line.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:46 PM (LRFds)

Something I emphasize a lot, and practice as much as I can is to only do business with Conservative states. (i'm not going to use the "Red" identifier. It is just lying media propaganda.)

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 06:53 PM (bb5+k)

323 322 diogenes lamp,

Yeah when I calculated we were likely fucked I wrote out that we probably need to "do the black thing" and just create a side economy isolated from the Federal and invest in skills amongst ourselves engage in outright patronage etc etc

I hate all those things but we're not a moral nation anymore and fixing that is a 20 year job that requires a lot of discipline.

Time to get to work, I am in a transitory place in my life but when i get settled I plan to pass some land on to the boy but will not try to max out my patrimony to him and rather use those gains to train and husband good people towards me and teach them the virtues of capitalism.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:56 PM (LRFds)

324 I tend to agree. It definitely cost two Senate
seats, and it very likely cost the election. I am still utterly
disgusted that those two were that stupid. I don't blame them for being
Pro-Life, but I blame them for not realizing that the rest of the
country doesn't and likely never will, go quite so far as they do in
their own personal opinions.

They ought to have known better,
both of them. It was a colossally stupid and hurtful ( to the entire
nation) mistake on their part.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp

Yep, and it also made the country MORE pro abortion because the pro-life position was lumped in with the no rape exception. I've yet to meet a female that will go along with the idea that if she's raped and impregnated, it should be criminal for her get an abortion.

Pragmatic conservatives need to cut these people out at the knees in primaries, I'm done handing the country over to Socialists over this issue.

Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 06:59 PM (J1Do0)

325 I've had "why the f did you vote for Obama" discussions with 5 people.

1. Husband's college roommate ... die-hard union man. He can't explain why being ina union is great; all he can say is corporations try to pay people as little as possible and without the union, he wouldn't be making a living wage. Obama supports the unions, therefore he votes for Obama. Single issue vote.

2. Husband's friend's 55 year old wife. She votes Democrat because her parents were Democrats. She is not a low information voter, she is a ZERO information voter. Incidentally, she opposes abortion, gay marriage, high taxes and a welfare state.

3. Husband's pot-smoking, holistic medicine hippie niece (32 years old). Ironically, she also hunts and eats what she kills (free range elk being free and organic). She doesn't like Mormons, having grown up in a town full of them (she is not, her mother is a drop out).

4. Husband's gainfully employed nephew and his live-in girlfriend. Both of these individuals are college educated and have plenty of common sense. They realize there will be no money left in SS or Medicaid for them. They understand that there are too many people sucking the system dry. But Obama seemed cooler than Romney. They couldn't explain why they voted for Obama other than they liked him better.

So I know I've been more guilty than anyone of saying Obama won due to the FSA, but of the 5 people I know who voted for Obama, all 5 voted for reasons that had nothing to do with free stuff.

BTW none of these people are allowed across my threshold any more.

Posted by: the other coyote at January 17, 2013 07:01 PM (yK44T)

326 Government Will Borrow From Federal Employee Pension Fund to Avoid Passing Debt Limit

http://tinyurl.com/avmo7qr

Geez I thought this was just rumor and speculation google told me otherwise.

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 07:01 PM (/b8+5)

327 Yeah when I calculated we were likely fucked I wrote
out that we probably need to "do the black thing" and just create a
side economy isolated from the Federal and invest in skills amongst
ourselves engage in outright patronage etc etc

Time
to get to work, I am in a transitory place in my life but when i get
settled I plan to pass some land on to the boy but will not try to max
out my patrimony to him and rather use those gains to train and husband
good people towards me and teach them the virtues of capitalism.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 06:56 PM (LRFds)

The Job would be far easier if we weren't required by law to use US Currency. Any bucket that holds dollars leaks badly because of inflation. It would be nice to have money that retained it's value.

Anyway, I know where you are coming from and I am trying to do something similar.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 07:02 PM (bb5+k)

328 327 diogenes lamp,

we have to resist actively or passively accept that breaking immoral law as much as conscience allows is a virtue and make a community that has demands for joining.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 07:06 PM (LRFds)

329 <blockquote>His chances at reelection are greatly diminished over this time last year.

Posted by: toby928© denouces himself so you don't have to at January 17, 2013 04:33 PM (evdj2)</blockquote>
What makes you think that any "election" that might take place in 2014 or 2016 will involve counting actual cast ballots? The Enemy has gotten the margin of fraud to be greater than the margin of possible electoral resistance. And what basis do you have to assume that Buraq Hussein Obama will either not be a candidate in any such elections, or will not simply be declared "First Citizen for Life"?

Posted by: Subotai Bahadur at January 17, 2013 07:07 PM (2aFsj)

330 329 Subotai Bahadur,

Pretty much, this is not a fix it in six months issue this is a we need to go to luke-warm war on the political front.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 07:08 PM (LRFds)

331 "Dear Mr. Speaker,

I am writing to notify you, as required under 5 U.S.C. 8438(h)(2), of my determination that, by reason of the statutory debt limit, I will be unable to invest fully the Government Securities Investment Fund (G Fund) of the Federal Employees’ Retirement System in interest-bearing securities of the United States, beginning on Tuesday, January 15, 2013. The statute governing G fund investments expressly authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to suspend investment of the G Fund to avoid breaching the statutory debt limit. Both my predecessors and I have taken this suspension action during previous debt limit impasses. By law, the G Fund will be made whole once the debt limit is increased. Federal retirees and employees will be unaffected by this action.

Sincerely,

Timothy F. Geithner"
http://tinyurl.com/avmo7qr

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 07:08 PM (/b8+5)

332
Pragmatic conservatives need to cut these people
out at the knees in primaries, I'm done handing the country over to
Socialists over this issue.


Posted by: McAdams at January 17, 2013 06:59 PM (J1Do0)

But unless that question is specifically brought up, how is a person to know? I've worked with religiously motivated Pro-lifers who won't budge at all, and I've worked with Pro-lifers who acknowledge an exception for rape. MOST people acknowledge that rape is an exception, but there are a few that don't.

You don't know about it unless you specifically ask them. Even so, I find it hard to believe that they are so naive as to say stuff like that to the Press. They must know the press HATES THEM and they must also know that their position is very unpopular.

I can't believe they were so stupid.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 07:10 PM (bb5+k)

333 Using one credit card to pay off another. (per letter in 331)

Posted by: Caustic at January 17, 2013 07:10 PM (/b8+5)

334
Yikes. Just glance at the factual premises of Ace in his post and his comment about Iraq and you have your answer, and your prognosis. Even a smart right-thinking blogger is utterly in thrall to jaw-droppingly ridiculous myths and assumptions.

In 2004, Iraq was so engulfed in chaos that we didn't even have security when travelling in over half the country (2/3 if you count Kurdistan). We "apparently" won in 2003? No, we obviously displaced the previous regime. The "insurgency" we later easily suppressed the nano-second we actually did something was one of the most pathetic of all time - and they all have been defeated, without exception.

Every error in premises here just underscores that without a press or a serious electorate (and we've had neither for a long time), you are at the mercy of fate. "Results" don't matter - most of the negative "results" even such as Ace attribute to Bush were never true to begin with - while the incredible disasters authored by the current affirmative action non-entity and his remarkably dumb and unfit administration are neither known to most (no press) and barely understood by the minority that's heard of them (unserious, remarkably clueless electorate, and here I don't just include NPR-listending "educateds" but focus on them in particular).

And of course there was the (still incomprehensible) apparent assumption by Bush and Co. that they could govern and advance the national interest while the populace was saturated in a tsunami of distortion and hysteria, 24/7. With no correction or response from the administration.

The insane mediadistortion and lynching of the Bush years (and let's not forget the amazing treasonous outrages of blowing surveillance programs during war-time by the NYT) cannot be even considered in the same framework as the orwellian, quasi-North Korean hero worship of a pathetically unfit, unimpressive, uninteresting and disastrously incompetent nobody who would remain unknown to the world if his skin were a different color. Weaving an analysis about both into one piece is like comparing a sedate New England town meeting to the Bolshevik coup of 1917. Pointless.

And as at least one commenter noted, Bush's numbers dove when he lost his OWN side due to gigantic, stupid, and indefensible crap like amnesty, Medicare Part D, and finally his disastrous response to the financial crisis (as always, stipulating the absurd fake explanations of the idiot press and cretinous Dems, refusing to even address the problem - govt. distortion and insane manipulation of financial markets - and proceeding to make idiotic comments and implement idiotic policies - TARP, various mortgage programs, etc.)

Sorry to be so harsh, but again, the stunning alignment of the factual premises of a righty blogger with the ludicrous fairy taleson which the idiotic electorate and pernicious repugnant Dems base their clueless policy preferences is the real story here.

Posted by: non-purist at January 17, 2013 07:13 PM (afQnV)

335 BTW none of these people are allowed across my threshold any more.

Posted by: the other coyote at January 17, 2013 07:01 PM (yK44T)

Had the media painted him as the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure that he is, he wouldn't have been cool, and these people would have deserted him. Probably even the Union man, though their biases towards doing what the Union wants is very strong.

Again, the Media portrayed him as something he was not, and they portrayed Romney as something he was not. Had the coverage been flipped, Obama would not have come close.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 07:14 PM (bb5+k)

336
The insane mediadistortion and lynching of the Bush years (and let's
not forget the amazing treasonous outrages of blowing surveillance
programs during war-time by the NYT) cannot be even considered in the
same framework as the orwellian, quasi-North Korean hero worship of a
pathetically unfit, unimpressive, uninteresting and disastrously
incompetent nobody who would remain unknown to the world if his skin
were a different color. Weaving an analysis about both into one piece is
like comparing a sedate New England town meeting to the Bolshevik coup
of 1917. Pointless.


Well put.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 17, 2013 07:16 PM (bb5+k)

337 #335 Exactly. I can't get through to these people that they need to read this blog. They need to look at the Emperor for themselves, instead of relying on someone else's description ... he is NAKED, for heaven's sake.

I really think these squishes in the middle would follow St. Patrick over the cliff, as long as they liked him and thought he was cool. I am starting to think the big problem with Americans is they don't know who they are or what they believe. They have no God, other than what Madison Avenue tells them to believe in.

What we need to do as conservatives is to stop talking to the media. Talk to the American people. Be likable and cool. From what I can see, Marco Rubio is likable and Paul Ryan could be, if he wasn't so danged nervous in front of a crowd. Rand Paul might be cool.I don't know yet because I haven't seen enough of him.

You know what is really funny? I've met a lot of reporters and media types over the years and with the exception of my college friend, who introduced me to the folks at TV, print, and radio stations she worked for over the years, they were all BIG HUGE DORKS. I mean BIG HUGE DORKS. Losers of the first order.

Posted by: the other coyote at January 17, 2013 07:28 PM (yK44T)

338 When enough of your neigbors are unemployed, you notice. When you're unemployed, you really notice.

I'm noticing.

We won't even talk about my property taxes, which are the triumph of liberal wishes over fiscal reality. At this rate, we're a decade from everyone abandoning their houses and walking away.

Posted by: MarkD at January 17, 2013 07:43 PM (+xUiW)

339 338 markD,

which is what the darker angels of my nature wonders if its not the real goal.

Guys while we have problems non 1st gen americans are not THE problem....

if you took Africa and put it here and put us in Africa we would be vibrant in probably two generations...

why are we not allowed to use our resources?

Because Soros is trying to break our backs and steal them.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 17, 2013 07:58 PM (LRFds)

340 124
"If the public were really insistent on firetruck-red conservatism --
preferring the true red version to the pinker variety -- for god's
sakes, 2006-2012 wouldn't have happened.

Posted by: ace at January 17, 2013 04:56 PM (LCRYB)

There were those who insisted McCaskill was soooo hated that even Akin had a good shot to win.

He got fucking crushed. Because he was a lunatic and an ape. It did
not matter that McCaskill was a liberal shill. Akin made himself worse.



If this country was as red-blooded as some people insist, that debacle would have still yielded a victory.



It didn't.



Berg had a WINNABLE race in North Dakota, a "red" state which voted
for Romney by a sizable margin. He didn't bother to campaign, and he
lost. Didn't matter the weight of the redness of his state. He stunk and
lost.



If this country was truly conservative, there wouldn't be liberal
Democrats representing West Virginia, Louisiana, and Arkansas."

I always seem to get to these fucking threads too late to get in on the discussion but I agree with the above. Which is also why I've gravitated to listening to Beck more than Limbaugh and Levin.

LL still seem to be laboring under the false apprehension that if only we turn out candidates with enough red-meat snarl on their face we will always be answering the door at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave instead of knocking on it. It's just not that simple, and it never has been.

Beck seems to get that. So much so that he up and moved his operation from New York to Texas and is planning to found his own libertarian city.

Having said that I do agree with Ace's original post. Incumbent fatigue is real, so real that it cannot be vaccinated against by a biased media. The voting public might not have been experiencing symptoms fast enough for our liking but it will come. It's the reason the incumbent party usually has such a hard time winning 3 Preezy elections in a row.


Posted by: MorphysGhost at January 17, 2013 08:20 PM (tDieS)

341 Katrina is what turned the public on Bush. Well, the media's coverage of Katrina.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at January 17, 2013 08:53 PM (6WVi+)

342 18 months?
What happened to 3 years, 4 years ago?

Posted by: Gerry at January 17, 2013 10:26 PM (980kh)

343 Geez, Ace: a whole lot of time and effort to convince yourself of something you have no control over and which seems more than a little unlikely on its face.

Clinton stayed super-popular right thru BJgate and impeachment ... and Clinton NEVER got the electoral support Obama's received, in two elections. You keep thinking this is going away, that's is some sort of, I dunno, ILLUSION ... and you keep getting confounded. Why is that?

Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at January 18, 2013 01:54 AM (21TJo)

344 Obama's approval rating has been EXACTLY THE SAME for his entire time in office, notwithstanding your (and others') repeated attempts to trumpet temporary dips as being TEH LOWEST APPROVAL RATING EVAR.

There is no concrete evidence to believe this will change. The people who voted for him knew what they were getting: somebody OTHER than the white guy.

You're fooling yourself. You've never stopped fooling yourself.

Posted by: Rollory at January 18, 2013 06:58 AM (5iwPC)

345 Bush never had 95% of any voter bloc voting for him. Sadly Barry's support has much to do with his race, and no amount of failure will take that part of it away. So his baseline is much higher than Bushes.

Posted by: Crusaderf8u at January 18, 2013 07:50 AM (joFRb)

346 Interesting point of view, and well stated. However, it ignores the elephant in the room: the Media. The Media relentlessly drummed that Bush is Evil and Stupid and At Fault for It All.

In contrast, the Media relentlessly pushes the line that Obama is Awesome and Wonderful and Cares About You, and that everything bad is because of Republicans.

Most Americans get their news from television, I am going to guess. And as long as they get their news from TV, they are going to see Liberal is Good and Conservative is Bad.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 18, 2013 05:04 PM (DuH+r)

347 Obama's supporters want him to rough up the GOP and win battles, like saying "no negotiations", then having the limp dick GOP cave and not negotiate. Obama wins, not the country, but his supporters don't give a crap about that. Obama beat the GOP, isn't that grand? Man, he showed them didn't he? Fuck the country...all hail to Obama. Obama is base and crude, and so are his followers. Nothing elite about them at all.

Posted by: fused at January 19, 2013 11:18 AM (PnNAy)






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