Guns & Hunting Thread (1-13-2013)

Gun Safety, Redefined

Put this one on your radar screens. Since "gun control" polls right up there with asking your mother-in-law to move in with you, the left needs a new term. This one must've focus-grouped well.


Now that's just asinine. The NRA literally wrote the rules for gun safety, and their Eddie Eagle program has taught gun safety to millions of kids.

They don't oppose gun safety at all. Gun control, OTOH ...


Good Stuff From Bob Owens

Forget bans; where are my Constitutionally-protected suppressed machine guns?

Also, Bob's eBook, So You Want to Own A Gun, is highly recommended for the first-time buyers among you.

And, of course, you should bookmark Bob-Owens.com.


A Brilliant Idea By Frank J. Fleming

This really takes the cake. Sheer brilliance.

Since Something Must Be Done!!11!™, ...

Gun control advocates won't know the difference if we pass laws banning a bunch of made-up things that sound scary.

I could totally lose those magazines that never run out of ammo and suppressors that make that "pew" sound like they have in the movies.


Finally, a Worthwhile Petition

I generally think these White House petition things are pretty stupid. I can get behind this one, though:

Eliminate armed guards for the President, Vice-President, and their families, and establish Gun Free Zones around them

Gun Free Zones are supposed to protect our children, and some politicians wish to strip us of our right to keep and bear arms. Those same politicians and their families are currently under the protection of armed Secret Service agents. If Gun Free Zones are sufficient protection for our children, then Gun Free Zones should be good enough for politicians.

They're 2/3 of the way there, if you want to lend 'em a hand. (h/t Laura W.)


Gun Of The Week

Hint: God created man, Col. _____ made 'em equal.

(answer below)


Marksmanship Award



Gun Of The Week - Answer

That beauty is, of course, the Colt Single Action Army.

I always wanted one of those when I was a kid and picked one up a few years ago. It looks exactly like the one in the photo and is chambered for the .45 Colt, although they made those in a ton of different calibers like .44-40, .32-20, etc.


Reloading For Fun & Profit (But Mainly Fun)

With the cost of a few boxes of ammo these days equaling what you could buy a nice gun for not too long ago, it makes sense to try to pinch pennies where you can. I address this the way I always have, by mainly shooting a boatload of .22 rimfire for practice, since all the skills translate over to the bigger calibers. But another way is by reloading your centerfire ammo.

Now, to be clear, there's an initial investment you need to make in equipment, but if you shoot a lot, you almost have to reload.

The process basically works like this: you collect up your spent cartridge casings and then knock out the old primer and put in a new primer, powder charge and bullet. The device pictured above, a single-stage reloading press, is what most folks use do most of this.

But if you want to get really fancy, you can get a progressive press that cranks out a completed round every time you pull the handle. Now don't get scared off by the name ... you know liberals really hate these. They're the semiautomatic assault weapon of reloaders, except they're real.

I started reloading with my dad when I was about 10. We never did it as a cost-saving thing, though. It was all about the craft of shooting, which is the other reason to reload, and the main one IMO.

If you want very precise consistency from round to round, mass-produced factory ammo leaves a lot wanting. Even "match grade" factory ammo doesn't undergo anywhere near the quality control that a hand-loaded round does.

Plus, once you've shot enough to be really good at it, you'll notice that different guns prefer different brands of ammo. The simplest example is a rifle that shoots one particular brand of factory ammo better than others. My personal favorite is the Ruger M77/22 bolt action of my dad's. It shoots "hot" .22s like the Stinger, Viper, etc. like crap. Meanwhile, the standard old Remington Golden .22 is just deadly in that thing.

You don't have any direct control over this with a rimfire, but with a centerfire, you can try all sorts of different factory ammo or you can load your own. We spent countless hours working on wringing the maximum performance of various rifles with different loads, and it was a tremendous amount of fun.

The pinnacle of this came for me when I started handgun hunting for deer with a T/C Contender (a/k/a an eevilll single-shot sniper pistol).

The barrel I use for deer is chambered in .30-30 Win., and all the factory offerings in this chambering are designed for a tubular-magazined rifle like the Winchester 94 and not a single-shot pistol. Reloading to the rescue: a 125-135 grain pointed bullet loaded in this thing expands well and is unbelievably accurate, but you can't buy them at the gun shop.

Whether you're looking for a way to lighten the cost of shooting great volumes of ammo or are just looking to wring every ounce of performance out of any given firearm, you should look into reloading.


Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Posted by: Andy at 09:27 AM



Comments

1 First?

Posted by: Sail Boffin at January 13, 2013 09:30 AM (cX6km)

2 Is NRA unreasonable to oppose ALL gun safety proposals?


So gun confiscation is "safety" now? Lying liars always lie.

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 09:34 AM (53z96)

3 Liberals like to think clev phrasing makes things so. George Lakoff anyone?

This "reframing business" is nothing new and I have seen this lets call it gun safety thing decades ago. It just doesn't work. And really, just like the trillion dollar coin thing, it doesn't matter because libs are going to do what they are going to do regardless unless they get voted out.

Posted by: Golan Globus at January 13, 2013 09:35 AM (/1U3u)

4 Clever phrasing. Dang iPad.

Posted by: Golan Globus at January 13, 2013 09:36 AM (/1U3u)

5
Lefties have been telling us for years that the welfare state is all that stands between us and the underclass. That without a permanent safety net, the FSA would have us all in tumbrels.

It's a laughable proposition as long as we're armed. I've come to believe this is the real impetus behind their undying demand for our guns. Unarmed, forking over is the only waywe'll keep from swinging from telephone poles.

Posted by: spongeworthy at January 13, 2013 09:36 AM (r5w1L)

6 rebranding 'gun control' as 'gun safety' is classic Newspeak

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 09:36 AM (8sCoq)

7 Pre-emptive ban on all phasers.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:41 AM (XkWWK)

8 Will Ace ban his ban-hammer?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:42 AM (XkWWK)

9 How do you get around the velocity using a handgun for hunting? Won't it always be lower than a rifle at a given caliber?

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 13, 2013 09:42 AM (QupBk)

10 Paul Begala is withou question one of the dimmest, most loathsome political hacks the Dems have in their reeking stable.

I'm a firearms instructor, and the 3 top rules of gun safety are; keep your finger off the trigger, keep your finger off the fucking trigger, keep your fucking finger off the fucking trigger.

Posted by: UGAdawg at January 13, 2013 09:42 AM (WYOrt)

11 >How do you get around the velocity using a handgun for hunting?


get closer to your prey

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 09:43 AM (8sCoq)

12 More verbal jiujitsu from the liars. Or are they merely tap-dancing around the core of their desire?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 09:43 AM (znavB)

13 the 3 top rules of gun safety are; keep your finger off the trigger, keep your finger off the fucking trigger, keep your fucking finger off the fucking trigger.

Number# for me is don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 13, 2013 09:44 AM (QupBk)

14 or #1

Either or

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 13, 2013 09:44 AM (QupBk)

15 Shot Guns are for hunting...
Hand Guns are for protection...
and
Semi Automatic Weapons are for the Government
who tries to take away your rights....

Posted by: American Dawg at January 13, 2013 09:44 AM (trA4n)

16 Mornin rons. Got nothing to comment on really. I need coffee.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 09:44 AM (l86i3)

17 Pre-emptive ban on all phasers.

****

Typical. Just like the 1994 law. People will just buy Disruptors.

Posted by: Beto at January 13, 2013 09:45 AM (BAnPT)

18 Morning OSP. Your 'friend' left a comment in the ONT for you.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 09:45 AM (znavB)

19 10
I always liked, "Keep your booger-picker off the bang switch."

Posted by: rickl at January 13, 2013 09:45 AM (sdi6R)

20 Disruptors are already banned.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 13, 2013 09:45 AM (QupBk)

21 At least, in Federation space.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 13, 2013 09:46 AM (QupBk)

22 I read this column with absolutely no idea of what 90% of the posts mean.

I am hoping I learn something by osmosis.

Posted by: Miss Marple at January 13, 2013 09:46 AM (GoIUi)

23 As I have mentioned before, all federal gun laws are unconstitutional and any state law or regulation that effectively nulls the 2nd amendment are unconstitutional as well.

Any state law or regulation that is arbitrary or capricious in regards to exercising your 2nd amendment rights are unconstitutional.

In short, the constitution has been a dead letter for a very long time.

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 13, 2013 09:46 AM (hfB0k)

24 Like sponge says . Once the opposition is disarmed the fascists proceed to step 2 .
See Bill Ayers for their version of step 2 .
25 million hats on the ground .
Fuck them .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 13, 2013 09:47 AM (USjX1)

25 What about a blaster?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:48 AM (XkWWK)

26 On the subject of progressive reloading presses, I'll go so far as to recommend Dillon. I got one of their presses while I was in college, and have always had great experiences with the company. However, I've only used mine for pistol loads; anybody used a progressive press for reloading rifle? I've heard some folks express concern over quality vs a single stage press.

Posted by: Boogie at January 13, 2013 09:48 AM (qkDVY)

27
10 Paul Begala is without question one of the dimmest, most loathsome political hacks the Dems have in their reeking stable.


Awesome forehead, though - you gotta give him that...

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at January 13, 2013 09:48 AM (Jcd0S)

28 My neighborhood is so tough we don't use guns. We shove bullets in you by hand.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:48 AM (XkWWK)

29 Blasters jam all the time.

Posted by: Beto at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (BAnPT)

30 I am hoping I learn something by osmosis.
Posted by: Miss Marple at January 13, 2013 09:46 AM (GoIUi)


Gouns are a lot like cars. You don't need to know all the specifics to be a good driver/shooter.

I just previewed Bob's eBook, So You Want to Own A Gun. Looks like it would be a good start.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (l86i3)

31 Liberal logic:

Guns are never safe so gun safety means no guns.

Sex can be perfectly safe, teens!

(deleted opinion because I'm trying to swear less)

Posted by: Mama AJ at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (SUKHu)

32 From Twitter
Anti-Gun Supporters - here's a list of groups and celebs who are against the 2nd amendment...
http://tinyurl.com/ck6xfdh

Oh and we are getting ready to get this little darling.
http://tinyurl.com/9wxq985


Posted by: spypeach at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (pwTow)

33 27
10 Paul Begala is without question one of the dimmest, most loathsome political hacks the Dems have in their reeking stable.

Awesome forehead, though - you gotta give him that...
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at January 13, 2013 09:48 AM (Jcd0S)


More empty space than an intergalactic void.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (XkWWK)

34 "Your agonizer Mr. Sefton."

"But but but they been banned!!!"

"Really? This is the Empire."

AARRrrrrgggg!!!!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (znavB)

35 >I read this column with absolutely no idea of what 90% of the posts mean.

I am hoping I learn something by osmosis.


The morons, not unlike the Golden Horde of Genghis Khan, stand ready to answer your questions

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (8sCoq)

36
I use a Dillon 550 progressive reloader; excellent workmanship, lifetime warrantee that I have made use of. It was sort of intentional that I chose Dillon, as their company is up in Scottsdale, about 20 miles north of me. I took in some worn pieces, and the lady at the counter simply replaced them.

Lately I've been reloading Berry's plated bullets in 9mm as the wife and I can go through a thousand of those things a month. Usually the deliveries from Berry's took about 5 days from ordering; now their website says 5 - 6 weeks. I'll just keep ordering on a regular basis and accept a temporary depletion of my inventory.

Posted by: 141Driver at January 13, 2013 09:50 AM (T42t5)

37 I voted on the petition

Let those worthless traitorous cocksuckers taste their own medicine.

Posted by: TexasJew at January 13, 2013 09:50 AM (lD8ju)

38 Hey Boogie did you go to the Jackson, MS gun show yesterday?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 09:50 AM (znavB)

39 Two more reasons to reload.

It gives you another source for ammo, which is extremely important in times of panic buys, like now. Reloading components usually don't get bought out as fast as factory ammo.

And you can create loads that don't exist. My Finn M39 in 7.62x54r is a lot of fun but its kind of harsh for a new shooter. I have some low recoil Czech practice ammo that's perfect , but the bullet attracts a magnet (can cause sparks down range if it hits a rock, which equals brush fires in SoCal). So I put together some gallery loads with 85g lead pistol bullets for close range no recoil use.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 13, 2013 09:50 AM (KZuD1)

40 Hand guns are safe because all they can do is wound you in the hand.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:51 AM (XkWWK)

41 Good morning morons. On this day in 1976, Truman's momma popped a kid out of her.

On this day in 2013, that kid signed the presidential gun-free zone petition.

Day's starting right.

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 09:51 AM (I2LwF)

42 Happy Birthday to You ♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸☺ ¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪ Happy Birthday to You ♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸☼ ¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪ Happy Birthday Dear Truman, ♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸☺ ¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪ Happy Birthday to You!

Posted by: spypeach at January 13, 2013 09:52 AM (pwTow)

43 Good morning morons. On this day in 1976, Truman's momma popped a kid out of her.


76? Good god you are still a baby. Happy Birthday Tru.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 09:52 AM (l86i3)

44
My thumb-in-Diane-Feinstein's eye tacticool 870 is coming along nicely. Just waiting for the barrel to arrive from MidwayUSA.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 09:52 AM (celt+)

45
We, the Mongrel Horde of the Free Shit Army, demand that you surrender all of your stuff!

( CLICK )

Never mind...

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at January 13, 2013 09:53 AM (Jcd0S)

46 Please push your local representatives to end gun free zones. Instead of protecting the ground we stand on, losing an inch at a time, we need to push into their territory.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at January 13, 2013 09:53 AM (QyMDY)

47 For there is no joy in Mudville

Mighty Casey has struck out



(where Denver is Mudville and, well, you get the rest)

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 09:53 AM (8sCoq)

48 41 Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 09:51 AM (I2LwF)

Yikes. On this day in 1976, I was watching B.T. Express on "Soul Train" and practicing my moves.

Happy birthday. ;-)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:53 AM (XkWWK)

49 My thumb-in-Diane-Feinstein's eye tacticool 870 is coming along nicely. Just waiting for the barrel to arrive from MidwayUSA.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 09:52 AM (celt+)


18 1/4? Didja get one of those menacing barral shrouds?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 09:54 AM (l86i3)

50 Thanks for the kind words, Andy.

Posted by: Bob Owens at January 13, 2013 09:54 AM (usJvF)

51 Bought a Ruger Police Service Six last week....stainless..pretty good shape...$200.

Posted by: BignJames at January 13, 2013 09:54 AM (j7iSn)

52 @41

Raises a glass of his best devils due in Celebration.

Cheers.

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 13, 2013 09:54 AM (hfB0k)

53 > Didja get one of those menacing barral shrouds?

with the shoulder thing that goes up?

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 09:55 AM (8sCoq)

54 Paul Begala has a little voice in his head saying, "wow, you can see for miles in here!"

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 09:55 AM (I2LwF)

55 "I am hoping I learn something by osmosis."

You will. There's so much info out there, and so many contradictory opinions, that a year or two of steady exposure is a great way to learn. Sort of like watching football.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 09:55 AM (celt+)

56 Thanks Ziva, Jack, JJ, and General Woundwort!

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 09:56 AM (I2LwF)

57 What if we prohibit airbrushed flames and low-rider hydraulics on all guns and mandate them to be painted pink with flower decals?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:56 AM (XkWWK)

58
What's all this "gun jam" I've been hearing about? Is it organic?

Posted by: yet another leftist numbnut at January 13, 2013 09:57 AM (Jcd0S)

59 On this date in 1976, we used to beat the shit out of some guy what looked like Paul Begala...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:57 AM (XkWWK)

60 And hay, a celebrity in the thread! Welcome Bob Owens!

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 09:57 AM (I2LwF)

61 I vote to stick a pair of 12 point antlers on Paul Begalas fat bulbous head and drop him off in the Texas Hill Country in the late Fall..

Posted by: TexasJew at January 13, 2013 09:58 AM (crLRi)

62 Great web site Bob!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:58 AM (XkWWK)

63 1976??!! Get off my lawn... and Happy Birthday.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 13, 2013 09:58 AM (DGIjM)

64 My favorite line from Frank Fleming's piece is "But people are really sure that if we pass the assault weapons ban,
something useful will be done, even though it’s a ban on deadly weapons
in the same way that prohibiting flame decals would be a ban on fast
cars."

Posted by: huerfano at January 13, 2013 09:58 AM (bAGA/)

65 61 I vote to stick a pair of 12 point antlers on Paul Begalas fat bulbous head and drop him off in the Texas Hill Country in the late Fall..
Posted by: TexasJew at January 13, 2013 09:58 AM (crLRi)


What's that called, a jackass-a-lope?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 09:59 AM (XkWWK)

66 happy birthday truman!

Posted by: phoenixgirl at January 13, 2013 09:59 AM (GVxQo)

67 What's all this "gun jam" I've been hearing about? Is it organic?
****

See "The Big Lebowski"
Jesus (hey soos) explains
You jam the gun up their hindquarters and pull the trigger until it goes "click"

Posted by: Beto at January 13, 2013 10:00 AM (BAnPT)

68 "18 1/4? Didja get one of those menacing barral shrouds?"

18.5" with eeevil Tritium rifle sights. No barrel shroud, but I will be getting a shoulder thing that goes up for occasional shits and giggles (and eeevil). Right now it's wearing a very nice Hogue Overmold stock and forend in eeevil OD green. I've also got a sling plate that'll go on as soon as I make a spacer. That will allow me to attach an eeevil Chinese AKSKSType56 Tactical Assault Sling, also known as the shoulder thing that hangs down.


Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 10:00 AM (celt+)

69 Happy birthday Truman North.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 10:01 AM (znavB)

70 I can't recall. How were the Libs able to pass the original AWB? Which by the way did not prevent Colunbine.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 13, 2013 10:01 AM (eINqu)

71
Happy Birthday, Truman!

On this date in 1976, I was rejoicing that when I went to Michigan Tech in the coming fall, I'd be free to purchase alcoholic beverages. Yep, drinking age lowered to 18 in Michigan that year. Quite a spree ensued in the years to come before they revoked the privilege.

Posted by: yet another leftist numbnut at January 13, 2013 10:01 AM (Jcd0S)

72 So now you know, when I say something childish, it's because I'm so young.

37 is young?! Gah. For most of human history, I'd have been a decrepit elder at 37. Now I'm a decrepit youngling.

If it makes you fossils feel any better, you all are way cooler than people half my age.

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 10:02 AM (I2LwF)

73 BTW, I updated the "state level 2A organizations" page this week with some more organizations.

Also, I bought [url="http://congressmanmccarthy.com"]congressmanmccarthy.com[/url] and pointed it to the nra recruiting page. :-D

Posted by: wizardpc at January 13, 2013 10:02 AM (KRFJ9)

74 Okay clearly I can't operate the comments section

Posted by: wizardpc at January 13, 2013 10:03 AM (KRFJ9)

75 71

Off, fuggin' sock!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at January 13, 2013 10:03 AM (Jcd0S)

76 And many thanks to all the hot, MILFy Moronettes.

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 10:03 AM (I2LwF)

77 I asked this question earlier in the week but now is more appropriate .
Anyone recommend a good crisp adjustable single stage trigger for the AR ?
I hate the two stage that came with my rifle . Feels more like creep than anything else .
My bushmaster varmint is accurate though , I will say that . Shoots sub moa .
With my built in bolt action prejudice I've been pleasantly surprised to get that kind of accuracy out of a semi auto and that's with Black Hills factory fodder. Handloads should be scary .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 13, 2013 10:04 AM (USjX1)

78 76 And many thanks to all the hot, MILFy Moronettes.
Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 10:03 AM (I2LwF)


Sort of rhymes with Milky Way and Raisinettes.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 13, 2013 10:05 AM (XkWWK)

79 For my 45th birthday I am going to get a handgun, shotgun and a scary assault gun.

Why do I NEED these?

Because liberal policies change my wants to my needs.

Posted by: Prepositions, Fists And Guns at January 13, 2013 10:05 AM (I4o0Z)

80 Happy birthday, Truman!

And since this is the gun thread, I'm proud to say that I am now the proud owner of a Ruger LCR .38 double-action revolver. It's PRETTY. So pretty that it's a pity it'll end up lost in the near future.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 13, 2013 10:05 AM (CA2NO)

81
Someone in last night's overnight thread linked a letter from Ruger to oppose gun control. You fill out the form, it goes to all of your representatives state and fed. According to several of the posters last night, this is the way that environment groups game the system. The form letters are easy to send, but each individual name on them gets counted and reported to the rep.
Ruger states that they do not store or use the info for anything other than the letter.
http://tinyurl.com/a8jquk2

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at January 13, 2013 10:05 AM (QyMDY)

82 "Eliminate armed guards for the President, Vice-President, and their families, and establish Gun Free Zones around them"

Brilliant. Alinsky all the way. (RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.")

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 13, 2013 10:05 AM (eHIJJ)

83 Sure did Anna, and I read and agreed with your review from the ONT. It was hilariously crowded; I much prefer the setup where they are spread out through the entire trade mart. Didn't find much, other than realizing that S&W revolver prices have gone through the roof, and that my next carry pistol will probably be either a Glock or a Ruger, not a S&W Shield (the dang things are just too expensive). I got there about 2; very little ammo, which disappointed me, although I did see a couple of Remington 870s I would have liked, if nothing else than for donor actions.

Posted by: Boogie at January 13, 2013 10:05 AM (qkDVY)

84 @70

It's as Groucho Marx said.

"politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies."

In short, something must be done. It was done. And it failed spectacularly.

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 13, 2013 10:06 AM (hfB0k)

85 Although I do not own any guns, I am a member of the NRA and GOAL, the MA NRA affiliate. Trying to get Mrs. North to consider starting the process of getting armed.

For historical reasons, guns especially frighten her, so it's going to take time. I was heartened a couple weeks ago when my mom invited her to go to some all-girl gun classes. She declined, but she did consider it.

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 10:06 AM (I2LwF)

86 OK, so when I finally get a single family home, the man cave shall have one of these presses when I acquire my guns. Between that, a good high speed internet connection and a beer cooler, my reasons to leave the house will be few and far between

The only problem is that I'd have to share the press with the wife because she'll want to play too.

Posted by: NR Pax at January 13, 2013 10:06 AM (QkEg0)

87 Can I get in on some of this " get off my lawn" action with Tru?

Happy Birthday. But just remember that after you turn 40, birthdays cease to be a cause for celebration.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 13, 2013 10:07 AM (KZuD1)

88 My friend went to a gun show in Mobile yesterday. One vendor had 35K of FMJ .223. $450 per thou. Sold them all in about 15 minutes. No mags, no ar's. One guy had an ar but wamted like $4,000 for it. No reloading supplies. It's all panic buying.

Posted by: Hammer at January 13, 2013 10:07 AM (5buGz)

89 >
I can't recall. How were the Libs able to pass the original AWB? Which by the way did not prevent Colunbine.



IIRC, the AWB predated the GOP takeover of the House in 1994 by a few months

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 10:07 AM (8sCoq)

90 I'm a firearms instructor, and the 3 top rules of
gun safety are; keep your finger off the trigger, keep your finger off
the fucking trigger, keep your fucking finger off the fucking trigger.

Posted by: UGAdawg at January 13, 2013 09:42 AM (WYOrt)




The three rules I was taught were: 1. Never point a gun at something you don't want to kill. 2. Always assume every gun is loaded. 3. Keep your finger off the fucking finger what are you an idiot.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Sheldon/Penny 4Eva at January 13, 2013 10:07 AM (Gk3SS)

91 The only problem is that I'd have to share the press with the wife because she'll want to play too.
Posted by: NR Pax at January 13, 2013 10:06 AM (QkEg0)

That's a good woman right there.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 10:07 AM (l86i3)

92 Kids up, gonna play toys with them! Bbl

Posted by: Truman North at January 13, 2013 10:08 AM (I2LwF)

93 Bought a Ruger Police Service Six last week....stainless..pretty good shape...$200.

A steal that.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 13, 2013 10:08 AM (QupBk)

94 When I was a kid, I worked at the Hartford Gun Club - the oldest gun club in America, I believe - doing scut work like reloading cartridges or being go'fer during competitions. They paid well and paid in cash. That was one hell of a summer job.

Posted by: Fart at January 13, 2013 10:08 AM (erQJO)

95 Then I just missed you Boogie. I left about 30 minutes prior to that.

It was just insanely crowded. And one dealer of various pointy and sharp stabby things took up a whole area. Which to me was a waste. Had one adorable little 2yr old blond boy almost sneeze on me. Got home and popped an Airborne, do not need that yucky crud again.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 10:10 AM (znavB)

96 Paul Begala: "Is NRA unreasonable to oppose ALL gun safety proposals?"

No, the NRA is reasonable in opposing ALL "gun safety" proposals.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 13, 2013 10:10 AM (eHIJJ)

97 77

I've had good luck with the stock trigger and throwing a few bucks at a local gunsmith to smooth it out and drop the pull down to about 3 to 4 pounds.

Posted by: Glacier at January 13, 2013 10:10 AM (g8tko)

98
The three rules I was taught were: 1. Never point a gun at something you don't want to kill. 2. Always assume every gun is loaded. 3. Keep your finger off the fucking finger what are you an idiot.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Sheldon/Penny 4Eva at January 13, 2013 10:07 AM (Gk3SS)


Yep, thats what I was taught.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 10:11 AM (l86i3)

99 Iowas Mariah Cary ! She took 4th last night...

http://tinyurl.com/adh7jzv

She's pro Gun, Pro Pig Farming and believes in keeping her yard tidy...

Posted by: American Dawg at January 13, 2013 10:11 AM (trA4n)

100 Someone in last night's overnight thread linked a letter from Ruger to oppose gun control.




Holy shit. Bill Ruger must be spinning in his grave.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 13, 2013 10:12 AM (KZuD1)

101 Happy happy Truman!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Sheldon/Penny 4Eva at January 13, 2013 10:12 AM (Gk3SS)

102 Everybody around seems to be sick, so that's probably a good idea, Anna.

I used to collect knives as well, and always like to take a look at the pointy things ( Case XX knife prices have gone crazy over the last few years, too), but I agree too much of the space was taken up with pointy things instead of shooty things. Yesterday was, I think, the "Jackson Gun Show." I generally prefer the "Great Southern Gun and Knife" show. Seems to have more vendors.

Posted by: Boogie at January 13, 2013 10:15 AM (qkDVY)

103 Truman North@85,

It's funny. My mother wants a gun. I'm concerned whether or not she can handle one (and I think she has some reservations herself), but she still wants it. God bless her.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 13, 2013 10:15 AM (eHIJJ)

104 The Great Gun Panic of 2013. At least it's not like a bank run. The manufacturer (bank) make more guns and ammo.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 13, 2013 10:15 AM (0GJri)

105 >>>>believes in keeping her yard tidy...<<<<<<

It just ain't home without an engine block swinging from a tree.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at January 13, 2013 10:16 AM (KAWvv)

106 I recently filed a petition with the Obama White House that needs 150 signatures before it can show up on the Open Petitions section of We the People. Those who want to have a little fun while educating Progressives may find it worth looking at. <a href="http://wh.gov/Pt5s">Common-sense Media Control</a>.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at January 13, 2013 10:16 AM (2VCZA)

107 So I was thinking what I'd do if all my guns were lost in a fire (shudder). I think I'd replace them with the most versatile guns firing the widest range of ammunition. Off the top of my head:

1) Ruger 10/22 Takedown - everyone needs a 10/22, and being able to break it down and stick it in a backpack is cool.
2) Remington 870 12 gauge in home defense configuration, with an extra 26" vent rib barrel for sport.
3) M1911 .45 with .22 conversion kit. Alternate choice - Browning Hi-Power in .40 with 9mm and .22 conversion kits. Either way, John Moses Browning has to be represented.
4) Ruger Vaquero .357. Cowboy six-shooters are cool, and this will eat .38s as well. Alternate choice - Smith and Wesson 586 .357.
5) Walther PPK in .380 for carry.
6) AR-15 middy in 5.56, with a .300 Blackout upper (because I think the .300's a cool idea). Get a .22 upper and I might forego the 10/22, but that would be tough. Because everyone needs a 10/22.

So that's three longarms covering four calibers, and three handguns covering five or six. What am I missing?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 10:16 AM (celt+)

108 The real question is whether a SW 627 is worth the additional money over a 6 or 7 shot .357 and do you go moon clips or speed loaders.

Posted by: Jose Wales at January 13, 2013 10:17 AM (RsuzN)

109 Posted by: awkward davies at January 13, 2013 10:04 AM (USjX1)

Midway sells Chip McCormick and Jewel triggers for the AR. About $200 dollars. Easy to instal. World of difference.
If you reload, try Hornaday V Max's, 53 gr. on top of about 25 or 26 gr. AA2230. Good groups out to 4-500 yards.( Minute of Prairie Dog ).

Posted by: Hammer at January 13, 2013 10:18 AM (5buGz)

110 If the imbeciles would eliminate about half of the tens of thousands of gun laws, and enforce the ones that could do some good we would be better off. Case in point is NICS instant check. There were thousands of rejections for criminal behavior, yet only 200 prosecutions last year. Some states seem to do a better job running this. Pennsylvania NICS checks go through the state police and seem to come back quicker, and when some dumb crook gets rejected, a Pa state cop rolls to the dealer to find out what's going on. Personally, I like it here in Arkansas; show DL and my CHCL, fill out 4473, and go. I was vetted nine times to Sunday on the CHCL, and that should be all that's needed.

Posted by: Bill at January 13, 2013 10:18 AM (xFYVW)

111
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 10:16 AM (celt+)

M-79?

Posted by: BignJames at January 13, 2013 10:19 AM (j7iSn)

112 I recently filed a petition with the Obama White House that needs 150
signatures before it can show up on the Open Petitions section of We the
People. Those who want to have a little fun while educating
Progressives may find it worth looking at. http://wh.gov/Pt5s

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at January 13, 2013 10:19 AM (2VCZA)

113 For crimes against fashion amongst other crimes, drop a nuke on this crew.
http://youtu.be/jUKLHace3t4

For Truman's birthday
http://youtu.be/4iPDHJ_ZNvI

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 10:20 AM (znavB)

114 OK, screw it.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at January 13, 2013 10:20 AM (2VCZA)

115 "I asked this question earlier in the week but now is more appropriate .

Anyone recommend a good crisp adjustable single stage trigger for the AR ?"

-----

I'm not an AR owner, but osmosis tells me that "Timney" and "Geissele" are names I see a lot when triggers are spoken of. Might be worth a look.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 10:21 AM (celt+)

116 "Is NRA unreasonable to oppose ALL gun safety proposals?"

------

Are Liberals "unreasonable" to oppose all 'compromises' on the the money in THEIR pockets?

The 2nd Amendment is a right, not an entitlement. There is no reason to "compromise" on any Civil Right. Should we "compromise" on what liberals can say? Should we "compromise" on the ownership of other humans (slavery)? Should we "compromise" on the right to due process?

Posted by: gastorgrab at January 13, 2013 10:23 AM (FX38i)

117 Just signed the petition. The part that really makes it good is the "and establish gun-free zones around them" clause. Just highlights the stupidity of gun-free zones supposedly being protection.

Posted by: MikeJ at January 13, 2013 10:24 AM (LINb/)

118 Just curious.

Do liberals not realize that the 2nd Amendment is a CIVIL RIGHT?

Posted by: gastorgrab at January 13, 2013 10:25 AM (FX38i)

119 Liberals want control. To control the populace they must be disarmed by any means.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 10:25 AM (znavB)

120 Jose Wales, I have a Smith 627 performance center (the 8 shot) in .357; my previous .357 was a Smith 686 six-shooter. Both are fantastic weapons, and while I love the 627, I wish I still had the 686. I used the moon clips for the 627. To me they're not quite as easy to load as using a speed loader (I have to jiggle the rounds a little to get it to seat correctly), but that's probably more from lack of practice than anything else.

I reckon if just depends on whether you feel like dropping the extra $400 or so for the performance center pistol.

Posted by: Boogie at January 13, 2013 10:25 AM (qkDVY)

121 The great thing about the .357 magnum is a full SAAMI pressure load from a 18" or 20" lever gun is roughly equivalent to a run of the mill 30-30, but the same gun can shoot rabbits with 38 specials and do so economically.

Posted by: Jose Wales at January 13, 2013 10:27 AM (RsuzN)

122 That's a good woman right there.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet


Indeed she is. We're trying to find a decent range to get some quality time with our shotgun and she's fine with me acquiring a 1911 from a friend of ours. Crying shame we live in the People's Republic of MD though.

Posted by: NR Pax at January 13, 2013 10:28 AM (QkEg0)

123 Libtards will say "You're paranoid to think we want to take away ALL your guns". Then 2 minutes later they say something like "there's no reason for anyone to own a gun".

Posted by: Hipster D-Bag Obama Voter at January 13, 2013 10:30 AM (HDgX3)

124 I'm back. For reloading I used a Lyman turret press. But I got rid of it because the reloading costs kept going up. It got to the point that I could actually buy cheap .357 loads from WalMart cheaper than I could reload them.


That may no longer be the case.

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 10:30 AM (53z96)

125 Boogie, what is the difference between a SW "Pro" and a performance center?

Why do you prefer the 686? Is it the size or were there other factors? I have looked at the 7-shot 686, but the cylinders look a bit thin...

Posted by: Jose Wales at January 13, 2013 10:32 AM (RsuzN)

126 My younger brother has a Colt SSA in a 22 caliber. That is a sweet gun. He also has a Colt Woodsman NIB, unfired. Now that one is a "collectable".

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 10:33 AM (53z96)

127 89
>

I can't recall. How were the Libs able to pass the original AWB? Which by the way did not prevent Colunbine.



IIRC, the AWB predated the GOP takeover of the House in 1994 by a few months


Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 10:07 AM (8sCoq)


____
And many say the AWB is what LED to the takeover. At least it helped out a lot.

Posted by: Hipster D-Bag Obama Voter at January 13, 2013 10:34 AM (HDgX3)

128 I have a SW 686 but it has 6 shots, not 7.

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 10:37 AM (53z96)

129 Thanks for the recommendations , guys .
I'll be in and out of this thread all day .
I really like jewell triggers .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 13, 2013 10:37 AM (USjX1)

130 The redefining terms thang is madding.

And the saddest part is that our guys will go right along with it instead of saying, well this-

Liberal Douche: Why are you against gun safety for the children?

Conservative Spokesguy/gal: I'm all for gun safety. The NRA has the best program for teaching gun safety in the country.

What you're talking about is gun control.

LD: What? No. Who said anything about gun control. I'm not for gun control. I'm for gun safety. I want to limit dangerous guns like assault rifles for the children.

CS: You're still talking about gun control. So let's talk about that and the 2nd amendment.

If you really want to talk about gun safety, let's talk about the NRA's excellent gun safety program, which they've been running for decades.

Etc. etc.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 13, 2013 10:38 AM (G9qZk)

131 So, I was getting ready to go downtown to the voluntary gun turn-in program, right? And as I'm finishing up my business in the bathroom, I stand up, flush the toilet and start to pull my pants up. And the darndest thing happened. Apparently the retention strap on my holster wasn't secure and my pistol flipped out of my holster, right into the water that was swirling down the commode, and before I could say "Jack Sprat" the darn gun disappeared right down the old crapper. Honest, Occifer!

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2013 10:39 AM (1OZSU)

132 The '93 AWB arose out of the Colin Ferguson shooting on LI, in Carolyn McCarthy's district, who shows she hasn't learned anything more about guns, in 20 years, but for her, ignorance is a salve,

Posted by: cardinal fang at January 13, 2013 10:40 AM (Jsiw/)

133 Boogie, notice people tend to forget this school shooting?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

I actually met Grant one time in the 1999 time frame. He was a non-entity who did not really register until later when a friend pointed out to me who he was.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 10:40 AM (znavB)

134
Why have ammo prices increased so markedly over the last decade or so? Is it because of increased demand, the commodity cost of copper, taxes and regulations or something else?

You'd think with the WOT winding down, all that surplus ammo manufacturing capacity and now excess materials would lead to dropping prices.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 13, 2013 10:40 AM (kdS6q)

135 Liberal: I'm for gun safety

Me: I am too, liberals should not on guns because they are too stupid to breath safely.


Liberal Oh, I'm not for gun control. I just think there should be some reasonable rules.


Me: You are a liar. Why don't we make it illegal to be a Democrat?

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 10:40 AM (53z96)

136 The 4 rules: (1) Treat all guns as if they are loaded at all times. (2) Keep your finger off the trigger until you're on the target AND prepared to fire. (3) Never point the muzzle at anything you're not willing to destroy. (4) Know what's beyond your target and what your backstop is.

Posted by: PabloD at January 13, 2013 10:40 AM (BNA90)

137 Ammo is going up because everything is going up, most of all stuff made from commodities like copper.

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 10:42 AM (53z96)

138 Eddie Eagle?


Who dat?

Sounds racist.

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 10:42 AM (sqp6o)

139 To me they're not quite as easy to load as using a speed loader (I have to jiggle the rounds a little to get it to seat correctly),

Point the revolver downward. Grab the moonclipped eight rounds about at where the moonclip is. When I do it, the thumb and forefinger of my left hand make a "C" shape, with the forefinger touching the rims of the top two cartridges and the thumb touching the rims of the bottom two cartridges. Move the clipped rounds to the cylinder, and twist very slightly until they drop in.

It comes with practice. I'd start with round-nosed .38spl and then move up to .357 magnum. The key is not to pinch the clipped rounds because the bullet tips will point in different directions and fail to line up with the chambers. Also, with practice you will start instinctively taking advantage of gravity and the chamfers in the chamber openings by intentionally overshooting the openings and twisting slightly to pass back over them.

All that said, I have had zero luck with moonclipped wadcutters and SWCs.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 13, 2013 10:43 AM (V3kRK)

140 So that's three longarms covering four calibers, and three handguns covering five or six. What am I missing?

A long gun in a full power 30 cal class cartridge. Cheapest way is a $150 russkie mosin.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 13, 2013 10:43 AM (KZuD1)

141 Eddie Eagle?


Who dat?

Sounds racist.
Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 10:42 AM (sqp6o)

There is prolly only one entity that has taught more kids about gun safety than eddie the eagle. Society calls him Grandpa.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 10:44 AM (l86i3)

142 Nice that the White House is willing to work with groups on both sides of the issue.

But I guess SAF's request for a meeting got lost in the mail.

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 10:44 AM (sqp6o)

143 107 M1911 .45 with .22 conversion kit.

I assume you want the conversion kit for range practice? Personally I practice with only 45 cal hand reloads, loaded just heavy enough to reliably cycle the action. Not as cheap as .22 cal, but cheap enough that I can shoot 3x as much.

Posted by: Rule #2 at January 13, 2013 10:46 AM (CypDC)

144 If Something Must Be Done™ is now trademarked, it should be presented in the acronym SMBD. (Not to be confused with BDSM.)

Posted by: Lessons from the Ceramic Throne at January 13, 2013 10:47 AM (Qb7IZ)

145 Liberal Gun Safety: Sending men with machine guns and wearing black masks to kick your door in at 0300, kill your dog, haul you to prison naked, and seize your firearms, ammunition, and magazines - so that the crackheads may rape your wife and children in peace.

Posted by: The violence inherent in the system at January 13, 2013 10:47 AM (9wjZl)

146 Reloaders are not quite as prone to panic buy but there is some of that going around as well . Try finding 150 to 168 grain bullets at the local supplier for your .308's .
I wish I was in the business . Money to be made !!

Posted by: awkward davies at January 13, 2013 10:47 AM (USjX1)

147 Is J J Sefton still around?

JJ,

Thanks for bringing Chicken Paprikash to my attention.

Looked up the recipe and it fullfilled my cooking requirements: i.e., sound delicious and be stupidly easy to make with less than 30 min prep time.

Annnywho- short story shorter- family loved it, everyone wanted more- I have a new recipe for days when I cook.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 13, 2013 10:48 AM (G9qZk)

148 Went to two gun stores yesterday and one was completely bare of almost everything. All 9mm and .40 handguns were gun; most .45s were gone; revolvers were sparse; shotguns were still plentiful, but all the "modern sporting rifles" were gone. The place was absolutely packed with people.

The second gun store was a tiny out of the way place specializing in more high end collectibles. They had plenty of guns and ammo.

Posted by: Witchfinder at January 13, 2013 10:49 AM (s/PhC)

149

Didn't know the NRA took memberships in most other countries.

Good to know.

Posted by: beach abroad at January 13, 2013 10:50 AM (LpQbZ)

150 There is prolly only one entity that has taught more kids about gun safety than eddie the eagle. Society calls him Grandpa.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 10:44 AM (l86i3)


Nice.

Ban Grandpas!

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 10:50 AM (sqp6o)

151 The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied the "assault weapon" ban and other gun control attempts, and found "insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence," noting "that insufficient evidence to determine effectiveness should not be interpreted as evidence of ineffectiveness."


That's Newspeak for 'we can't prove it worked, but that doesn't mean it didn't work'.

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 13, 2013 10:50 AM (8sCoq)

152 Jose, if I remember correctly, the 686 is an L-frame, whereas the 627 is an N-frame. The 686 was slightly more comfortable on my hip as my go-to gun for walkabouts in the woods. I never had a 686+, which is the 7 shot, but to me that 686 was wonderfully comfortable even shooting the hottest .357 magnum loads I could find. I have to assume the 7-shot has thinner chamber walls, given that the cylinder is the same size, and that makes me a bit nervous.

I'm not knocking the 627; all in all I love the pistol, and would never dream of getting rid of it. I just think the 686 in either a 4" or 6" barrel is one of the best all around .357 magnum pistols out there. Of course, my brother, the Ruger partisan, disagrees, and prefers to cling to his GP100.

Anna, Bob Jones just tweeted a thing from Mother Jones saying no armed person had stopped a mass shooting in the last 30 years. Apparently they forgot to consult Joel Myrick from Pearl High School. Yet another example of Col. Colt making men equal.

Posted by: Boogie at January 13, 2013 10:50 AM (qkDVY)

153

My job on CNN is precious...

Posted by: Paul Smeagol Bagala at January 13, 2013 10:51 AM (LpQbZ)

154 Reloading saves you zero dollars, BUT it allows you to shoot much more for the same money. I reload/handload so I can make subsonic rounds to shoot through my suppressors. It's much cheaper than buying factory subsonics.

Posted by: Witchfinder at January 13, 2013 10:51 AM (s/PhC)

155 Posted by: naturalfake at January 13, 2013 10:48 AM (G9qZk)

Chicken Paprikash...food of the Gods. One of my favorite meals, and damn easy to make. Perfect comfort food.

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 10:52 AM (sqp6o)

156 Kinda reminds me of when crash bars & crash helmets for motorcycles got renamed "safety...."

Posted by: backhoe at January 13, 2013 10:53 AM (ULH4o)

157 144
I forget where I saw this recently:

1. Something must be done!
2. This is something.
3. Therefore, it must be done!

Posted by: rickl at January 13, 2013 10:54 AM (sdi6R)

158 Thanks FRONT; like I said, it's most likely a matter of practice for me. If Jerry Miculek can do those superhuman things with moon clips in the 625, I can surely get comfortable with a reasonably quick reload on my 627.

Posted by: Boogie at January 13, 2013 10:55 AM (qkDVY)

159 #30 I ordered the book for my kindle. It should answer some questions.

Posted by: Miss Marple at January 13, 2013 10:58 AM (GoIUi)

160 Yeah, and the guy in the Oregon mall didn't get a chance to get his mass murder on .
It Seems a civilian with a handgun brought his gun to the gunfight instead .
Psycho with his shocked face " I thought this was a gun free zone ".

Posted by: awkward davies at January 13, 2013 10:58 AM (USjX1)

161 Turn the tables; call it Gun Denial or Gun Confiscation by Gun Confiscators.

That's the typical progressive; reframe the arguments and the lables when you realize you're losing.

Don't cooperate with their attempt to seize the vocabulary.

Gun Deniers, Gun Denialists

etc. etc.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka 3 tooth) at January 13, 2013 11:00 AM (3E2th)

162 If Jerry Miculek can do those superhuman things with moon clips in the 625,

Not to detract from Miculek's insane skills, but there is a huge difference. A .45acp is nice and stubby. Comparing cartridge to cartridge in front of me, the .45 is a full quarter-inch shorter than a .38spl.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 13, 2013 11:01 AM (V3kRK)

163 They are really big on changing just the cover sheet thinking we're fucking retards.

I'd buy Boehner a beer a day for life if he'd repeal the '68 and '34 laws.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:02 AM (LRFds)

164 Also,
5Star versus CompII speed loaders. I have some of each on order. I wanted to try the SL Variant but $30 a pop is kinda steep. The CompII's look really easy to use, except for loading the loader.


Posted by: Jose Wales at January 13, 2013 11:02 AM (RsuzN)

165 I ordered the book for my kindle. It should answer some questions.
Posted by: Miss Marple at January 13, 2013 10:58 AM (GoIUi)

Some people here can seem a little cavalier when it comes to firearms. It's good to remember that one little tiny mistake can be life changing. It's such a huge responsibility. Those of us who were raised with it don't give it much thought because safety things are ingrained. New shooters and owners really need training. Lots of it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 11:02 AM (l86i3)

166 Pointing libs to the NRA gun safety stuff pisses them off, but does not change their mind. I got I friended by a lib for doing that. Had another debate on FB with a lib who after I showed that all of his "facts" are wrong just went to the agree to disagree mode.

I just watched the Reddit suicide guys video about SOPA and it sounds no different than the 2A arguments. Problem is that we think that there are serious arguments to be made by serious people, apparently we are to be led by hipsters with bad haircuts.

Think about it. We live in a world where we have Joe Biden as VP.

Posted by: Golan Globus at January 13, 2013 11:03 AM (/1U3u)

167 Begala and his wet panty CNN colleagues can spew garbage all they want. Right now any kind of gun control would not even pass the commie controlled Senate.

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 11:03 AM (53z96)

168 Anyone for a moron Appleseed meetup?

Posted by: Jean at January 13, 2013 11:03 AM (gvWL9)

169 Anyone for a moron Appleseed meetup?
Posted by: Jean at January 13, 2013 11:03 AM (gvWL9)


That would be awesome.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 13, 2013 11:03 AM (l86i3)

170 FRONT, women have always told me it not the length that matters, it's the width

Posted by: Jean at January 13, 2013 11:05 AM (gvWL9)

171 Gun newbie here. What are people's thoughts on Kel Tec? Thinking a carbine, wondering about the sub2000 40 caliber (for ammo interchangeability).

Posted by: Harvey at January 13, 2013 11:06 AM (Z0YZC)

172 31
Liberal logic:


Guns are never safe so gun safety means no guns.


Sex can be perfectly safe, teens!


Posted by: Mama AJ at January 13, 2013 09:49 AM (SUKHu)



And safe driving? How's that working out for ya', folks?


Posted by: Lessons from the Ceramic Throne at January 13, 2013 11:06 AM (Qb7IZ)

173 thanks to gun safety, serial killer BTK didn't accidentally kill anyone's parakeet during the rape, torture & murder of multiple women

Posted by: i like anchors at January 13, 2013 11:08 AM (LCZ3l)

174
Non-gun question:

Do you think 30 years is a good life time for the water pump for a baseboard hot water heating system?

Also:

Do they always break down on a Saturday night?

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 13, 2013 11:08 AM (tOkJB)

175 Someone in last night's overnight thread linked a letter from Ruger to oppose gun control. You fill out the form, it goes to all of your representatives state and fed. According to several of the posters last night, this is the way that environment groups game the system. The form letters are easy to send, but each individual name on them gets counted and reported to the rep.
Ruger states that they do not store or use the info for anything other than the letter.
http://tinyurl.com/a8jquk2
Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at January 13, 2013 10:05 AM (QyMDY)


Bears repeating. This is a very quick way for you to spam all your public servants at the state and national levels.
----
Bob Owens has been on FIYAH. En fuego!
--------
Giving some money to the NRA and the other orgs, plus your state chapter is a must now. This new coalition, firearmspolicy.org, seems promising. They also have a tool for pestering your government overlords. The main partners are CCRKBA and SAF.

Posted by: stace, L.I.B. at January 13, 2013 11:09 AM (m+UHL)

176 oh - wanna feel like Carlos Hathcock with a damned pistol? play golf and compare that with shooting!

Posted by: i like anchors at January 13, 2013 11:09 AM (LCZ3l)

177 Book thread up!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2013 11:09 AM (znavB)

178 So I'm at the airport and some guy on CNN was talking about Republicans holding the country hostage with the debt ceiling. How about my being held hostage to darn CNN at any airport I go to in this country? Ugh.

Now they're going on and on about the gun "debate." Playing their Alex Jones clip over and over. Funny, no Ben Shapiro clip yet.

And who thought Fareed Zakaria would make a good TV show host? Negative charisma levels.

Also, I wasn't surprised that the We the People wall at this terminal consisted almost exclusively of people promoting left wing causes. They threw in Charlton Heston and his 2AM advocacy and a Hawaiian guy (university official I think) who shut down anti-Vietnam war protests that were disrupting classes at a university.

To be fair, there were also a couple of people from back in the day who fought for actual equal rights for blacks and women.

And who knew Mickey Mouse was one of We the People?

Posted by: chique d'afrique on her phone at January 13, 2013 11:10 AM (fdyPW)

179 166 Golan Globus,

they do not THINK and they cannot be reasoned with and they have the media.

Any swayable moderate is vulnerable to their bullshit.

"Agree to disagree" is code for "you handed me my ass but I BELIEVE"

Yeah champ if only you believed in freedom with as much passion moonbat.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:10 AM (LRFds)

180 I still can't get over the Bob Munden videos. It is debatable that he was actually human.

Posted by: 141Driver at January 13, 2013 11:12 AM (T42t5)

181 174 Ed Anger,

30 years was a good run. try getting that out of the recent shit.

Murphy's law they design things to break to get the plumber overtime.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:12 AM (LRFds)

182 171 Harvey,

Kel-tec's carbine are good quality I'd say decide how often you really intend to shoot it and whether or not you are looking for raw reliability of accuracy first.

The Hi-Points are lifetime backed and rugged as hell.

The Sub's features can be nice if you are making a GooD bag.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:15 AM (LRFds)

183 Good point FRONT, And it's even harder with the lengthened .357 mag casing.

Posted by: Boogie at January 13, 2013 11:15 AM (qkDVY)

184
Do you think 30 years is a good life time for the water pump for a baseboard hot water heating system?


It'd be nicer if they lasted forever, but thirty years is a nice run.

The upside is that it's a pretty easy repair.

If you are in danger of a freeze before you can get a plumber out to look at it, you may want to ask around to see if you should drain your system.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 13, 2013 11:16 AM (V3kRK)

185 165 OSP,

Grandpa took me out as a 3 year old and shot up thick glass jugs two times before I ever even got to shoulder a rifle.

"you are not smarter than the bullet, you are not stronger than the bullet, and the bullet is not anyone's friend."

Firearms are a deadly serious matter.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:17 AM (LRFds)

186 184 FTL,

depnding on your setup....were I he I'd ponder tankless.

Dad loves his.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:18 AM (LRFds)

187 182 sven1007,

Thank you! Just to clarify, the Kel tec has less accuracy? At what range would that begin to be an issue? You like Hi-point, they have a comparable gun?

Posted by: Harvey at January 13, 2013 11:19 AM (Z0YZC)

188 So, here's a question for any Baltimore area morons: anybody got any extra boxes of 9mm target ammo that I could buy. I recently got a 9mm Glock, and wife wants some range time (as do I), but everybody, and I do maen everybody, is sold out. The guy at my local gun shop said he had someone walk in and hand him 12 grand, walking out with every case of ammo in stock. I have a couple of boxes of hollow points, so I'm good if someone tries to break down the door, but I don't have enough to practice with and that's awful expensive practice ammo anyway. If anyone has some extra to sell at a fair price, drop me an email at weirddave at gmail dot com.

Thanks.

Posted by: Weirddave at January 13, 2013 11:21 AM (aH+zP)

189
depnding on your setup....were I he I'd ponder tankless.


Yes, but. . . I was thinking of hydronic distribution lines freezing in unheated spaces. I have about thirty feet of hydronic piped through my attic. It is not really an issue in my climate. It would be an issue north of here.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 13, 2013 11:22 AM (V3kRK)

190 Re # 26

I use a Dillon RL550 to reload everything, including 30-06, .308, .270, .243, and .300 Win Mag. I'll match it against anything coming from a single-stage press.

Bottle-neck cases are a little bit of a pain, since you have to lube them before you resize them, then clean all the lube off before you reprime/recharge them. Still, it's much faster than single stage.

Posted by: Retired Spook at January 13, 2013 11:24 AM (cgPPn)

191 Weirddave, there is a gun show at the timonuum fairgrounds today. They had 9mm yesterday ( but very few guns).

Posted by: Timon at January 13, 2013 11:24 AM (mL2ZN)

192 Avoid a freeze! Not sure where you live, but I know someone who almost lost their house when their pump failed while they were traveling for work. The repairs were close to a third of the value of the house. Insurance company put up,one hell of a fight.

Posted by: Jean at January 13, 2013 11:24 AM (J7sV0)

193 Avoid a freeze! Not sure where you live, but I know someone who almost lost their house when their pump failed while they were traveling for work. The repairs were close to a third of the value of the house. Insurance company put up,one hell of a fight.

At the very least, shut the supply valve upstream of the make-up valve.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 13, 2013 11:26 AM (V3kRK)

194 Happy Birthday, Truman!

Posted by: Miss Scarlett with the revolver at January 13, 2013 11:26 AM (JxJPF)

195 187 Harvey,

No the Hi-Point is from what I have read from people I trust less accurate by a smidge and the trigger on the Hi-Points is not elegant at all.

The Hi-Point is sorta like the AK/SKS vs AR in that sense.

Pistol Caliber carbines are best thought of as a way to take your practical range out to 25-100 yds.

You absolutely would want to have interchangeability with your pistol, and ideally mag compatability as well which is where the Kel-tec shines.

Of course there are alternatives to both those now.

You can legally mate a Carbine upper to a pistol lower now and it is no more complex than a proper field stripping.

WWW.mechtechsys.com

If you wanting to be able to scavenge ammo if it is a SHTF weapon you need to decide if you want 9mm which is the Mil standard or .40 which is rapidly becoming the LE standard.

Plenty of 9mm around though.

I'm torn I don't yet have a PCC unless of course you count my .357Magnum Taurus thunderbolt but it is rifle sized.

You can find used Glocks for ~400 and the Glock can be mated to a NICE picatinny equipped upper with a T-6 stock.

It all depends on what you are looking for and what your purposes are.

Wife is hot for a mare's leg in lieu of a PCC and if anyone makes a tactical socked one like I've seen for 30/30s I may surprise her for my Birthday and give her one.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:27 AM (LRFds)

196 Truman North you young whipper snapper...may you live as long as you want and never want so long as you live.

Many more friend.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:28 AM (LRFds)

197 Butchered the last deer from the season yesterday. Shot 5 between my cousin and I. Now ready to pop some bunnies. Praying for snow!

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 13, 2013 11:28 AM (kWFP3)

198 MWR, I love my LCR. Whoever stepped back and took another look at the grip/trigger/barrel geometry and the trigger design for the LCR series deserves a big bonus.

Posted by: Jean at January 13, 2013 11:29 AM (PVNda)

199 Gun buyback in Greensboro, here in NC. They got 7 guns and "hundreds of rounds of ammo".

WOW. A raging success!!

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 13, 2013 11:31 AM (4Mv1T)

200 199 Tobacco Road,

You might want to go observe what paperwork or proof they are giving about the turn in.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:33 AM (LRFds)

201 188 WeirdDave,

WD if you can get on post at APG I'd check there and edgewood's gunclubs.

They tend to be squared away if you know what I mean.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:35 AM (LRFds)

202 I was cleaning out a storage unit this week and found an old Ruger catalog. Now I'm lusting for a Ruger .44mag carbine. The catalog lists it for a little over $300 and the cheapest one I saw on Guntrader was $800. Bummer.

Is 500-600$ a good price for a Dillon 550?

Posted by: Invictus at January 13, 2013 11:36 AM (OQpzc)

203 OK, matching uppers and lowers is way over my head. PCC is pistol caliber carbine? Will look up mare's leg. Purpose-husband does not feel accurate with a handgun, so looking for something he would like that would include medium range.

Posted by: Harvey at January 13, 2013 11:36 AM (Z0YZC)

204 Or you can do what I plan on doing with one of the ARs and buy a 9mm upper for it.

The 9mm AR-15 is a semi-automatic version of a design gaining popularity with CT forces worldwide.

The nice thing about it is if you are ex-military or an AR enthusiast the sight picture is similar and once sighted in familiar.....

I'm slowly becoming an old dog....
new tricks and all that.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:37 AM (LRFds)

205 Avoid a freeze! Not sure where you live, but I know someone who almost lost their house when their pump failed while they were traveling for work.

On second thought, this sounds more like their potable water supply lines froze and burst. Maybe shutting off the water at the meter (or killing the breaker on the well pump) is needed.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 13, 2013 11:37 AM (V3kRK)

206 Sven- I was thinking that if I was the media, I wouldn't have even printed that "success story". Greensboro's population is several hundred thousand. 7 guns and a few boxes of ammo turned in? Sounded like a colossal failure.



Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 13, 2013 11:43 AM (4Mv1T)

207 Pastor said today that he doesn't trust the press to speak truthfully or honestly about the gospel.

I don't trust the press to speak truthfully about anything relating to gun related freedoms.

Posted by: sTevo at January 13, 2013 11:45 AM (VMcEw)

208 203 harvey,

It's not really over your head trust me.

The website I posted allows you to take say a glock or a 1911 you ideally "already own" and simply remove the pistol slide and replace said pistol slide with a carbine slide if that makes sense.

If the main purpose of the weapon is home defense and you lack a pistol and carbine both i'd go with the hi-Points if on a budget and the kel-tecs if you want higher quality.

Not trying to muddy the waters further but beretta has a PX-4 storm Carbine and the PX-4 if you want both a pistol and a Carbine.

If you are just shopping for pistol caliber carbines and you are not trying to ease your home logistics on ammo I'd strongly consider going with a 30/30 or go to pawn shops and look for an M-1 carbine in .30 carbine.

The LE guys I know say the .30 Carbine is a beast in CQB.

The main advantage of a PCC over a rifle class round is the reduced recoil and reduction of overpenetration potential, if your spouse is not recoil averse and is simply looking for "a weapon" I'd go with a 5.56 carbine for maximum utility.

That said if the main thing is having ONE weapon with maximum versatility and there is no concern over trying to match a pistol take a look at the taurus circuit judge.....

http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus-CircuitJudge.htm

The Taurus Circuit judge is a revolving carbine that can use .45 LC AND .410 shot....

for home defense that is a very interesting mix of ballistics and tissue interaction.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:45 AM (LRFds)

209
Thanks.

There will be no freeze -- we have two circuits, one downstairs and one upstairs. We'll crank the heat up downstairs, open the door to the basement and my brother is buying some electric heaters for the upstairs right now.

I could do the fix myself but all the plumbing supply shops are closed. I installed the last one, a Bell & Gossett Series 100, the Cadillac of pumps.

Since I have to watch my father 24/7 there's no waiting for Monday and fixing it then. So it's time to call the plumber.

I feel like telling the plumber I'll keep the pump or knock $50 off his bill if he wants the old pump because it can be rebuilt and last another 30 years. And I know if he takes it he'll rebuild it.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 13, 2013 11:45 AM (tOkJB)

210 "Gun newbie here. What are people's thoughts on Kel Tec? Thinking a
carbine, wondering about the sub2000 40 caliber (for ammo
interchangeability)."

I've heard very good things about the SUB-2000, enough that I'd love to find one to match my Beretta 92 9mm. Unfortunately, I've never seen a Kel-Tec product of any kind in the wild aside from a pocket pistol here and there. There are rumors they actually produce firearms, but like the legendary giant squid, I've not seen conclusive proof of their existence.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 13, 2013 11:45 AM (celt+)

211 206 Tobacco Road,

You want to know how "successful" Barry and Buds have been on the gun front?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/

Para Ordnance is selling AR-15 lowers for 499 bucks.

I basically built my latest AR-15 for free now.

I posted a recipe for a good AR build for a baseline Mil Spec 20" build one night....

my total cost?

675 bucks and I do NOT build junk.

Thanks barry you have added a LOT of new compatriots on telling you to go fuck yourself.

jug eared bastard.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:48 AM (LRFds)

212 209 Ed Anger,

Yeah try to bargain with him.

Ask him what a tankless would cost and if it is code legal and hint you'll use him for an install and he'll be friendly.

I regret not going tankless in my house here in Indiana.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:49 AM (LRFds)

213 sven,

About the tankless, do you happen to know of an oil one other than the Toyotomi?

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 13, 2013 11:54 AM (V3kRK)

214 Here's a series of photos of various shot gun rounds vs. ballistic gel.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?
f=7&t=109958&
sid=c8d2542e8ccdf8fafee1190fb1dab722
(cut and paste it together)

Actual facts refute my pet birdshot theory.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at January 13, 2013 11:54 AM (qkP36)

215 210 taro T,

Kel Tec makes good carbines, and they seem to have the teething problems out of their wildcat pistol the PMR-30 which is good to know.

If they'd build a carbine for the PMR-30 I'd buy it and the pistol.

The .22 WMR is a very serious round.

Essentially it is a less powerful version of what they are aiming for with the 5.7mm in current use the 5.7*28mm and the 5.7 spitfire used in some M1 carbines.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:54 AM (LRFds)

216 Harvey,

Adding a bit to what sven said- I think it is Anna Puma here that has the Beretta Storm Carbine (although with my track record, I may be 100 percent wrong about that.). She seems pretty impressed with it.

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 11:55 AM (sqp6o)

217 213 Toyotomi,

Dad got the Siemens and is happy with it.

The only gas fired one I know of is the Toyotomi.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:58 AM (LRFds)

218 Regarding reloading equipment:
I currently have a Lee single stage press, but use Lyman dies. Are the dies and shell holders pretty much universal, and will they work on a Dillon? Want to upgrade to a progressive (*spits to clear foul taste*), but already have nice carbide dies in several calibers.

Posted by: Rule #2 at January 13, 2013 11:59 AM (CypDC)

219 214 Comrade Arthur,

the Birdshot theory is a popular one and the reason I favor birdshot in a home defense mix is it is less destructive than any other shot.

If you have to fire with it it will definitely stagger the client, and your follow up should be 6 or 7 shot.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:00 PM (LRFds)

220 If they'd build a carbine for the PMR-30 I'd buy it and the pistol

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 11:54 AM (LRFds


What a tease.

http://tinyurl.com/dynq4a6

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 12:00 PM (sqp6o)

221
posted a recipe for a good AR build for a baseline Mil Spec 20" build one night....


how would one find said recipe if one were so inclined?

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 13, 2013 12:01 PM (MPjT8)

222 The term "gun control" is misleading, just like Liberals aren't liberal (in the classical sense). It's not about keeping guns "controlled", as in keeping them out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them (criminals, insane, etc), it's about gun proscription for the law abiding. The Left has just taken it to the next step by trying to say it's a safety issue, as if the students in Newtown were any safer since only the shooter had guns.

Posted by: jim at January 13, 2013 12:01 PM (VwhRo)

223 218 Rule 2,

most dies are interchangeable but there are plenty of resources that will tell you which ones are not.

I am debating getting a self-cycling press after we move from South carolina or set up our retirement ranch.

Good luck.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:01 PM (LRFds)

224 30 years on any heating system is great. My original heat pump went out after 15 years and I am told that is about average.

Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2013 12:03 PM (53z96)

225 221 USS Diversity,

It was in one of the ONT's back in November or around the evening the massacre happened.

You knew right as the rain he was going to use the first mass shooting to grab guns.

He did not let me down.

Others are a lot more savvy at searching the archives here.

Basically find a lower you like, get a Del-Ton or Spike's lower parts kit and build a customized upper or go to R Guns or Del-Ton.

I'll post the cheapest AR-15 component recipe I can find tonight in the ONT after we get back from bloomington or in this thread.

The price has probably doubled.

I cannot stress enough get familiar and friendly with a small local gunsmith and have him build your lower and if inclined to break in your bore.

My gunsmith double checked my builds and broke in the bores for about 40 bucks per sample and I know they are safe as the ones the local SWAT team uses....he's their armorer.

The same gunsmith had a surplus Indiana State police Rem 870 Ms10077 fell in love with so I got her an M4 profile AR-15 qand she bought the house an 870 to Police Specs for under 300.

Win/win

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:06 PM (LRFds)

226 208 sven10077,

I saw the Beretta and it looked good, kinda like the folding stock of the Kel tec. Ammo interchangeability is a factor, so that is why I was thinking PCC but wasn't sure if that was a good idea since what seems like a good idea to a newbie might be the opposite.

216 RWC
I think Anna Puma took off to the book thread, but that is good to know.

Overall bad timing since cost and availability are a big issue now.

Posted by: Harvey at January 13, 2013 12:06 PM (Z0YZC)

227 feel good story of the day

HOUSTON -- A couple of strangers came to the rescue when a man was robbed at gunpoint. Now, the victim wants to say thank you to the Good Samaritans.
Police believe the criminal who was canvassing a neighborhood in the 2500 block of Wichita near Hermann Park had no idea what he was in for when he picked his target.
The victim in this case had just walked back to his car from a bar around the corner.
Kevin Dorsey says he hadn’t even closed his car door Thursday night when a man wearing all black and a ski mask put a gun to his chest. The man took Dorsey’s wallet, cell phone and car keys.
After he was robbed, Dorsey began running down the street and says two men in a Mercedes asked him what had happened.
Dorsey told them and they not only caught up with the suspect, but they started shooting at him.
The suspect fired back. In the end, the two witnesses turned vigilantes won and took down the bad guy.
“I don’t believe in guns,” said Dorsey. “I don’t own a gun. I’m totally at the mercy of my saviors. They obviously sent two angels to help me. These people protected me when I couldn’t protect myself.”
After the robber had been shot, police say he jumped over a fence and was attacked by a German Shepherd. That attack prevented him from getting away.
The suspect, identified as Christopher Hutchins, is being treated at Ben Taub Hospital. He’s expected to recover

Posted by: thunderb at January 13, 2013 12:06 PM (Dnbau)

228 222 Jim,

It is like taxes becoming 'revenue enghancement"


Fuck them...they have warped the language so words have no meaning to anyone paying attention....

if you don't speak the same defacto language anymore are we really a culture?

The language thing was one of the reasons I finally sadly accepted we may need a divorce.

they are trying to be cute and get their way by treating us as a legitimate alien enemy.

Fuck 'em.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:08 PM (LRFds)

229 226 Harvey,

The Kel-tec is the best choice if you have a matching pistol because it saves you magazine cost.

There is seldom a 'bad choice" so long as a weapon meets your needs and budget and is not a hazard.

For example I REALLY want a caracal 9c with quick-sites for a CCW but there is some question as to the drop safety of a caracal so I am not getting one.

I'll probably get a Chiappa Rhino in .357 mag since wife is a sass enthusiast and i already have all the material to load .38sp/.357 mag.

When I was licensed for CCW in the '90s I carried a .357 wheel gun for CC and a Glock the company I contracted with issued for open carry..
I am not the world's biggest Glock fan, I am told the 3d gen Glocks improved a lot of the areas I disliked, BUT I am a utilitarian and would have carried an HP-35 if I had had one.

13 shots is plenty, and I like the customization options gunsmiths do with the Hi-powers.

There's a weapon for everyone.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:13 PM (LRFds)

230
Overall bad timing since cost and availability are a big issue now.
Posted by: Harvey at January 13, 2013 12:06 PM (Z0YZC)

Tell me about it. Supposed to go to the farm this weekend but the thought of going through ammo and paying an arm and a leg to replenish it may keep me away.

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 12:13 PM (sqp6o)

231
What we should say to these people - on air.
Paul Begala ---= "WHAT KIND OF A HACK ARE YOU?"

Posted by: Fresh at January 13, 2013 12:18 PM (O7ksG)

232
“I don’t believe in guns,” said Dorsey.
======
Pssstt. They do exist.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 13, 2013 12:19 PM (MPjT8)

233 232 USS Diversity,

I don't believe in closeted marxists being president of the United States...

oddly my lack of belief is immaterial to his being in office.

At the end of the day the neo-luddites are at best naive and at worst wanting sitting targets for their control.

Not while I breathe.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:20 PM (LRFds)

234 230 RWC,

I suspect the mega ammo buy was in fact the Feds playing this game on purpose in the event of an Ogabe win.

You'll know the gig is up when it is easier to openly buy porn than ammo.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:22 PM (LRFds)

235 We've talked about it before but I can't stress this enough, if you think birdshot is a good defensive load in your shotgun, you are wrong. It causes gruesome superficial wounds with shallow penetration. It does not get the job done. Use 00 buckshot (I prefer full power loads to "reduced recoil loads - but either is much better than birdshot.) Leave the birdshot for the birds.

Posted by: Witchfinder at January 13, 2013 12:25 PM (s/PhC)

236 Gotta go, but thanks for all the info and suggestions. Greatly appreciated.

Posted by: Harvey at January 13, 2013 12:25 PM (Z0YZC)

237 Sven,

You aren't kidding about the .22 mag. Great fun. I splurged once and got the HK 300. It isn't just accurate, it is mg'ing accuate and much fun to shoot.

Posted by: Invictus at January 13, 2013 12:25 PM (OQpzc)

238 I started trying to learn the game of Go. I used to play chess in high school (2nd board in our club), but strategy in Go doesn't seem to rely on being able to predict specific outcomes since the complexity is so high that it's impossible to do except at the top player level or in the case of small groups of stones. Instead there are patterns you have to recognize and corresponding moves that produce statistically favorable outcomes in most cases. Very strange game, but I'm just getting started on it.

I also have a T/C Contender in .30-30 (13-inch barrel) and load my own pointy ammo using Nosler Balistic Tip bullets.

Posted by: Socratease at January 13, 2013 12:29 PM (Q2jQ8)

239 @60 Bob Owens, here?

That's kind of a "Hi, Andrew!" moment.
Wasn't it just last week, somebody was asking who the heck is this Bob Owens, never heard of him before? Must have been Charlie Gibson. Well by golly, you have heard of him now.

Victor Laszlo just walked into Rick's. Play it. Play The Marseillaise.

Posted by: comatus at January 13, 2013 12:30 PM (qaVK+)

240 Sven,

Do you own the Taurus/Rossi Circuit Judge? Or have you fired it?

I like the idea of it for home defense but it looks like it might be a wrist killer with the shotgun shells and hard to control.

They have a rifle version but that might take away some mobility in the home.

anyway- your thoughts?

Posted by: naturalfake at January 13, 2013 12:31 PM (G9qZk)

241 Great I missed the gun thread. Fuck it I am going to the range.. suck it losers !
/

Posted by: The Jackhole on Ventura Highway at January 13, 2013 12:36 PM (/7Xis)

242 Going myself to sit through orientation today for my range card at a newish range with 100 meter bays, so I can zero my scope.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 13, 2013 12:38 PM (4Mv1T)

243 Glad to see a few didn't run off yo the book thread.
Just got here and read a little.

Posted by: teej at January 13, 2013 12:39 PM (JxJPF)

244 I love the gun free zone idea.

Posted by: no good deed at January 13, 2013 12:40 PM (mjR67)

245 Okay, I have an ammo question. I have an old single shot shotgun. I think it's a Winchester. It was a gift to my husband and he just loved the gun. He always used low velocity rounds in it (mostly dove/quail loads). He would use these when he butchered the goats as he said the low velocity at close range would stay within in the brain cavity.

I've told other people this and they look at me like I'm crazy. So what do low velocity rounds do at close range? My husband killed a lynx with this gun, that had been after our poultry, so he must have known something.

Posted by: notsothoreau at January 13, 2013 12:43 PM (Lqy/e)

246 Never owned a Contender but shot a scoped one in 35 Remington and open sighted 22 with 12 in bbl. Loved them both.
Deadly from Creedmore position.

Posted by: teej at January 13, 2013 12:43 PM (/Bbvl)

247 I think it's pretty cool that the Founders thought deer hunting was so important that they wrote the 2nd Amendment.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at January 13, 2013 12:43 PM (qVjAs)

248 I suspect the mega ammo buy was in fact the Feds playing this game on purpose in the event of an Ogabe win.

You'll know the gig is up when it is easier to openly buy porn than ammo.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 12:22 PM (LRFds)


Wouldn't doubt that in the least.

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 12:47 PM (sqp6o)

249 Both are possible I guess notsothoreau. I've never put a light load right next to a goat's head and squeezed a trigger. I think they have pretty thick skulls which could flatten small lead shot to the point of not being able to pass back out.
Can easily see killing a lynx at fairly close range with a light load.

Posted by: teej at January 13, 2013 12:54 PM (1CULz)

250 Rossi is now making the Circuit Judge in .44 magnum. The 44 is a bit much for most folks in a hand gun but no problem in a carbine. The nice thing about a revolver carbine, is that unlike a semi-auto, if you have a misfire, just pull the trigger again and it will go bang.

I have been interested in their 22/22 mag version but the price in pretty high for a 22. The revolver would also be pretty inaccurate out past 75 yards or so (I would think).

Posted by: Jose Wales at January 13, 2013 12:56 PM (RsuzN)

251 There was a line all the way out to the gate of the fairgrounds and a two hour plus wait for ammo at the local, small town gun show yesterday.

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 13, 2013 12:56 PM (6H6FZ)

252 Thanks, teej. I've got plans to take the gun out to a range to shoot it, as I don't like the idea of having a gun I don't know anything about. It seems to be accurate, if a bit fragile.

Posted by: notsothoreau at January 13, 2013 12:57 PM (Lqy/e)

253 Oddly, there is a gun show in San Francisco today (and yesterday). I drove by. Pure political theater outside. Between the folks wanting to sign you up for the NRA (already belong) and the protestors, it is quite the gauntlet you have to endure just to go inside and look at not much.

Posted by: navybrat at January 13, 2013 12:59 PM (5NO2z)

254 witchfinder re birdshot
If you're talking at 30 yds I agree.
If you're talking at 15 ft + or - a standard in the home distance, then bologna.

Posted by: teej at January 13, 2013 01:00 PM (5gfow)

255 Posted by: notsothoreau at January 13, 2013 12:43 PM (Lqy/e)

Yes, less velocity equals less penetration.

For example-

http://tinyurl.com/awol83h

Posted by: RWC at January 13, 2013 01:01 PM (sqp6o)

256
If I ever got a .44 mag carbine companion to my Model 29 it would be either a pump or lever action.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 13, 2013 01:03 PM (tOkJB)

257 notsothoreau, please take the gun to a gunsmith first and have it checked out. That "if a bit fragile" statement concerns me.
Safety first please. We don't want you getting hurt.

Posted by: teej at January 13, 2013 01:04 PM (dmcx3)

258 Ed, I had a 6 in 629 for a few years. Pachmayer combat grips. I sure miss that baby. Milk jugs at 30 yards, one handed and cocked first, never miss. And boy would 230 grains of jhp explode a jug full of water.

Posted by: teej at January 13, 2013 01:09 PM (kmLUz)

259 Time to see if cheerleaders are up.

Posted by: teej at January 13, 2013 01:11 PM (kmLUz)

260 @ 250


Thanks for the input, Jose Wales.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 13, 2013 01:16 PM (G9qZk)

261 235 witchfinder,

00 is my first choice for a tactical load but in a development like I built in here I was told by a cop I trust who has had to use his weapon that 6 or 7 shot is th best urban Personal Defense round.

The BirdShot as shot one is mainly because a wounded perp who stops is preferable to a dead one most of the time, it will not overpenetrate in the event of a miss and if the client insists on a second shot the 6 or 7 will help him plan for retirement.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 01:41 PM (LRFds)

262 237 Invictus,

I am a big fan of flatline ballistic envelopes.

The wildcats are good for that.

My all time favorite round is probably the 6.5*55 swede for just that reason.

I could break broomsticks at 50 yards ironsight at my peak of shooting with it.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 01:42 PM (LRFds)

263 238 Socratease,

30/30 has retired many a deer.

It is a very good medium power round with a lot of precision loading room for a person who makes their own.

Enjoy

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 01:43 PM (LRFds)

264 240 naturalfake,

I've fired one.

The wrist killer from flash?

yeah it didn't bother me, but I used to grab pizza pans out of the 485 degree oven barehanded when angry.

Main thing is it is a very accurate controllale system that can handle the special load .410 rounds some enthusiasts have been coming up with.

Nice trigger on it too especially if you have a gunsmith polish it.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 01:45 PM (LRFds)

265 @264


Sven,

Thanks for the feedback.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 13, 2013 01:53 PM (G9qZk)

266 Timon,

Thanks for the tip! Just got back. I thought I was going to be unsuccessful, everybody there seemed to be out, but after about 30 minutes I found a dealer who sold me 500 rounds for $15/50. Now to schedule some range time.

Posted by: Weirddave at January 13, 2013 01:54 PM (aH+zP)

267 240 NaturalFake,

ah yeah you're talking the pistol...

yeah the Circuit Judge is a PCC.

Wait one I'll link to Taurus' sight on it.

http://tinyurl.com/3hbbcpc

Taurus handed the judge carbines off to Rossi, but they have expanded the revolving carbine line some.

That carbine is REALLY winking at me, my wife's SASS righ is a pair of .38sp open tops and a Taurus Thunderbolt in .357 that doesn't mind .38sp.

I have a set of 1851 conversion open tops in .38sp and don't have a carbine right now.

I am a serious fan of the henry and it doesn't have a .357 version so for my SASS rig i am thinking about converting an 1848 Dragoon to .45LC adding a birdshead peacemaker Sherrif's in .45LC and getting the Improved sidegated Henry in .45 LC.

That Taurus Circuit Judge design would be VERY nice to work up loads for and put a Red Dot or NV sight on if need be.

The improved foregrips on the latest iteration eliminate the teething problems with the wrists getting kissed by powderflash in rapid fire.

The brzillians love the judge line because Carjacking and ransoming are the national sport down there.

Brazil is serious as a heart atttack about gun ownership and they grasp innately that it ain't about Elmer Fudd.

Go to a gun club and try out both if available for rent it convinced me.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 01:54 PM (LRFds)

268 256 Ed Anger,

Pump is nice, .44mag is a bit throaty for it.

We were "warned" by internet gun guy that the TunderBolt sucked but we've NEVER had a problem with ours.

You might look at the Marlin especially if you are wanting a Picatinny rail.

Rumor is marlin will be offering a similar layout to their modernized 45/70 Big Bore.

I hope so I'd buy one in .357 mag in a heartbeat.

as Bush the elder said, "guns...my wife would say I have more than i need...I'd say I have half of what i want."


Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:01 PM (LRFds)

269 It is almost impossible to exaggerate how stupid Paul Begala is.



Posted by: Ron Penfound at January 13, 2013 02:03 PM (Q1DS+)

270 245 Not So Through,

The safety factor has a LOT to do with the steel used in the bore.

I'd take it to a gunsmith and have him make sure it is not Damascus steel but if it is not and he checks how well the lock works it should be good to go.

Always take a 'new" used gun to a gunsmith to give a once over and test fire.

I had a brass blackpowder 1851 Navy Colt replica I bought used blow up in my hand when all 5 loaded chamers went fratricide and I couldn't feel my hand for a week.

There was some fissures in the piston bed I thought I would have seen since "i know guns."

I got VERY lucky had i been hotloading I probably would have eaten the cylinder.

Happy shooting.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:05 PM (LRFds)

271 269 Ron P,

it may not be impossible but I can't see a limit...

the guy is weapon's grade retarded...he is like a less charming Webb Hubble.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:06 PM (LRFds)

272 250 Jose Wells,

Ah I should have read to see if it had been covered.

yeah if Sass still allowed 1858 Remington Carbine conversions to compete I'd probably go that route.

.44 mag is stable out to about 75-125 yds in a revolving carbine if you have come up with a "recipe" load for the bore.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:10 PM (LRFds)

273 247 the poster formerly known as Mr. barky,

Indeed.

We're not one nation anymore and I wonder if we have been since before I was born.

Wrap your head around my post on the brazillians being more honest about self-defense rights than we are.

If jugears makes us borderline full commie or openly socialist by executive fiat in lieu of law why not go to brazil or Argentina?

If enough of us go we can help stabilize them and frankly if you are certain you have a legit "female" the chicks are hot.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:13 PM (LRFds)

274 What about my telekinesis abilities to blow up shit with my head? Should I be concerned <thought crime/>?

-A concerned Stephen King character

Posted by: Froth at January 13, 2013 02:18 PM (YcP18)

275 274 Froth,

Your guns are responsible for all the death you see, but my books are not responsible for anything.

//S King

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:23 PM (LRFds)

276 Stephen, Stephen, Stephen. It's like you wished you'd written, like, a gun slinging gunslinger saga or something. It's okay. Just because I wiped out the neighbors' vintage prom dress the other day still does not make you cogently relevant. But could you gimme some more details on how to aim?

Posted by: Froth at January 13, 2013 02:27 PM (YcP18)

277 Interesting post up at Protein Wisdom regarding making AR15s for fun and profit. "Outlaw Gunsmithing."

Posted by: David (NOT Dave!), infamous sockpuppet at January 13, 2013 02:27 PM (/YJKo)

278 277 David not Dave,

Yup...I took a mail order locksmithing course for my repo work down south.....

I am a 'good user" on weapons and can do a good PM once over and field strip all my weapons but I am not a gunsmith....

if I were 10 years younger I would be as quick as possible.

You can build a 9mm SMG from a shovel.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:32 PM (LRFds)

279 Use #4 buckshot instead of 00 if you're trying to limit penetration. IIRC its about .24 caliber, instead of .32, so you also get more pellets per round.

Posted by: Retired Spook at January 13, 2013 02:32 PM (cgPPn)

280 279 Retired Spook,

Yup pretty much what i was told was 4-7 shot is optimal the less concerned with overpen the lower the number.

00 is definitely what's I carry if I was in a firefight, but home defense is not exactly a military patrol.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 02:48 PM (LRFds)

281 Sven's "cheap" AR build for the new year....

http://www.carricozarmory.com/lowers.htm

This site allegedly has stripped lowers in the 119-170 dollar range.

If in stock and you want an AR grab one now.

The price is about 499 with the wholesalers for one right now and will likely climb there before receding but I suspect AR lowers will never be below 75 bucks again.

Simplest way to "have" an AR was to go to DPMS and buy a kit and put it on your all laws complied with lower BUT DPMS is quite literally out of kits.

R guns still has them here if interested in alakamagig "boom" I have an AR....

http://www.rguns.net/gunparts/rifle-parts-AR-partskits.shtml

Price Range is now 60 bucks for just the lower reciever parts and no stock(if you want to get a special type of stock the way to go...

to 590 for a 16" M4 carbine layout with carrying handle add on for the flattop.


I am not pushing RGuns either I have done business with them, but in the end they seem the least inclined to start profiting from the panic beyond sanity.

So the minimum cost to build an Ar15A4 like I built is

119

590

and what a gunsmith charges to assemble it and break in the bore....

709 so if you act quick you can beat a lot of the panic still.

I prefer building a lower to my PRECISE desires which can cost more and then shopping for the complete upper I prefer.

If you are in the mood for that you can use this

http://tinyurl.com/3hua6ch

and shop for the precise upper build you'd prefer.

I went with a 445 dollar 1/9 twist base A3 20" upper on my last rifle.

It has gone up from the 385 I paid for it last month and will likely keep climbing in the near term.

Stay within your budget, do not fail to follow ALL applicable laws and practice good range safety.

Happy shooting.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 03:41 PM (LRFds)

282 Darn,

I missed the gun thread. Hey I just called about a price an AR.....2575. It was too many digits. At first I thought the lady was giving me her social security number by mistake. The panic prices on these things are astounding.

Instead I bought an M1A LE trade in. 7.62 x 51...a manly caliber!

Anybody have an SVT 40 yet? That is next on the list!



Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at January 13, 2013 07:38 PM (Sedwk)

283 282 Judge Roy bean,

the .308 M1a is a nice rifle....a bit macho for urban IMHO.

The SVT-40 is a finicky beast but once it is tuned up a nice rifle.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 07:59 PM (LRFds)

284 Yes, Sven that gas system is a bit to deal with on the SVT. That 7.62 x 54R ammunition sure is affordable though! I agree both of those are way too over powering for urban home defense. I live in the stix, but still.

Both of those rifles serve dual purposes. I collect for the history aspect and they fill a hole in the collection.

For the practical aspect, I got the M1A as another rifle for when the SHTF. For urban home defense..I have the Remington 870 (my go to working shotgun around the farm), and my favorite..the Saiga 12. I load them with #4 or #1 shot in good times. and 00 buck for when the SHTF.

I cannot for the life of me find any 20 round drums for the Saiga, although I did pick up a few 15 round drums and 12 round magazines before they sold out!

Ammo is selling out everywhere too! Sheesh!





Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at January 13, 2013 08:29 PM (Sedwk)

285 284 Judge bean,


sounds like you need to take up reloading....

An Air force reservist that stayed at the boarding house I was at in college had a nice SVT-40 he had tightened up.

Was a very accurate rifle, though iron sights I think my M-39 was a shade tighter.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2013 08:38 PM (LRFds)

286 Sven,

I really have to get more into reloading.

You have an M-39! I have one too. Darn accurate rifle. Mine is from the Valmet arsenal.

Some of those old milsurp rifles are amazingly accurate. That old 98/29 Persian Mauser I have is no slouch either.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at January 13, 2013 09:44 PM (Sedwk)

287 I'm late reading this thread and my comment will probably never been seen, but how come nobody on the left is pointing to Syria as an example of why no citizen should have access to "military style" weapons? I really don't care about Syria, Libya, or any of the "Arab Spring" events (LIB), but there's a good example of citizenry (and probably some bad guys) trying to cast off tyranny when all else failed...speeches, votes, etc are worthless against an ass hole of a government.

Just because "we" drink wine and gasp when we see someone urinating in public doesn't mean we're safe from the horrors of the third-world.

Posted by: Jim at January 14, 2013 10:23 PM (sV9s3)






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