Charles Krauthammer: The Meaning Of The Hagel Nomination

In short, nothing good.

Message-sending. Obama won reelection. He no longer has to trim, to appear more moderate than his true instincts. He has the “flexibility” to be authentically Obama.

Hence the Hagel choice: Under the guise of centrist bipartisanship, it allows the president to leave the constrained first-term Obama behind and follow his natural Hagel-like foreign policy inclinations.

...

Hagel himself doesn’t matter. He won’t make foreign policy. Obama will run it out of the White House even more tightly than he did in the first term. Hagel’s importance is the message his nomination sends about where Obama wants to go. The lessons are being duly drawn. Iran’s official media have already cheered the choice of what they call this “anti-Israel” nominee. And they fully understand what his nomination signals regarding administration resolve about stopping them from going nuclear.

The rest of the world can see coming the Pentagon downsizing — and the inevitable, commensurate decline of U.S. power. Pacific Rim countries will have to rethink reliance on the counterbalance of the U.S. Navy and consider acquiescence to Chinese regional hegemony. Arab countries will understand that the current rapid decline of post-Kissinger U.S. dominance in the region is not cyclical but intended to become permanent.

Related: Byron York makes the case that there are certainly efficiencies and savings to be found in the defense budget.

Maintaining national security requires underwriting a lot of departments: Defense, Homeland Security, Veterans Affairs, and countless others. But looking just at the Defense Department, the Obama administration this year plans to spend (without sequestration) $550 billion on the basic operations of the Pentagon, plus $88 billion specifically on the war in Afghanistan -- a total of $638 billion.

Back in 2007, the Pentagon's base budget was just $431 billion, with $132 billion added for the war in Iraq and $34 billion for Afghanistan -- a total of $597 billion. Given that it was a peak year for war spending in Iraq, in part because of a costly troop surge, is there any reason the U.S. should be spending more on the Pentagon's base budget today, adjusted for inflation, than it did in 2007?

"If we go back to '07, we had the Army we have today, and it was surging in Iraq, with all the logistical support it needed," says one senior GOP Senate aide. "No one in '07 was screaming that we didn't have enough money for the military."

Republicans and conservatives shouldn't treat the defense budget as sacrosanct but letting Obama and Hagel use this opportunity to redefine our defense posture is dangerous and will have repercussions far into the future.

Republicans agreed to sequestration and Americans elected Barack Obama twice. It's the perfect storm of idiocy.

Posted by: DrewM. at 11:58 AM



Comments

1 I bet Drones remain fully funded.

Posted by: we are so screwed, deliver us oh SMOD at January 11, 2013 12:00 PM (HEa5q)

2 First to say First!

Posted by: jwpaine (@PirateBallerina) at January 11, 2013 12:02 PM (VcDCJ)

3 Global warming will remain fully funded

Posted by: Truman North at January 11, 2013 12:02 PM (I2LwF)

4 Hey, we got the Clinton tax rates-might as well get the Clinton military.

It's not like choices have consequences or anything.

Posted by: Methos at January 11, 2013 12:04 PM (hO9ad)

5 Obama is stacking this administration with everyone he needs for his game plan. I don't know exactly what his end game is, but it's scary. We will find out after he gets his Supreme Court.

-----

And on an off-topic note, we should outlaw boxing if we outlaw guns.

I see some people talk about taking up boxing as a form of
self-defense. These people claim that they are tired of being pushovers.
They want to learn how to stand up to these so-called muggers who are
all over the place.

Listen, I’ve never taken up boxing and I’ve made it this far without being robbed or beaten. You guys don’t need boxing. You boxers are just a bunch of paranoid right-wing lug nuts.
See link below.

Posted by: Think of the Children at January 11, 2013 12:04 PM (Q0ji5)

6 As I have said to Ms Clemenza NO GOOD WILL COME OF THIS.......and that mutt for CIA director really great a couple of yes men looking for a warm office and the slack prizzy gives....These guys get their instuctions from the prizzy press box.

Posted by: Clemenza at January 11, 2013 12:05 PM (x59Gv)

7
The defense budget is not a hill we should die on.

If taken seriously, it would be easy to take 25% out of defense without any loss of readiness.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:05 PM (ZDsRL)

8 The problem is that O will cut unthinkingly, so worthy programs will be cut, but unworthy ones (diversity, outreach, green energy) will remain, thus magnifying the damage to the important bits of the military.

I think we can count on a dramatic expansion of the Indian military budget, with attendant instability on their western border. A SW Asian nuke exchange is a-comin'.

Posted by: pep at January 11, 2013 12:05 PM (YXmuI)

9 Football will probably be outlawed (or at least well-neutered) within the next 20 years. At least they'll make an attempt.

5
Obama is stacking this administration with everyone he needs for his
game plan. I don't know exactly what his end game is, but it's scary. We
will find out after he gets his Supreme Court.

-----

And on an off-topic note, we should outlaw boxing if we outlaw guns.

I see some people talk about taking up boxing as a form of

self-defense. These people claim that they are tired of being pushovers.

They want to learn how to stand up to these so-called muggers who are

all over the place.


Listen, I’ve never taken up boxing and I’ve made it this far
without being robbed or beaten. You guys don’t need boxing. You boxers
are just a bunch of paranoid right-wing lug nuts.
See link below.


Posted by: Think of the Children at January 11, 2013 12:04 PM (Q0ji5)

Posted by: Pyrocles at January 11, 2013 12:07 PM (cv5Iw)

10 Regarding "where Obama is headed", he just warned the UK not to leave the EU. So he's a big fan of multinational socialist governance...

Posted by: Ian S. at January 11, 2013 12:07 PM (B/VB5)

11 Message-sending. Obama won reelection. He no longer has to trim, to appear more moderate than his true instincts. He has the “flexibility” to be authentically Obama.

Message-sending: Cheri no longer has to pay taxes, obey traffic laws, obey any f'ing laws whatsoever because she has the flexibility to be authentically Cheri. How will that work out?
Jail.

Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:08 PM (G+Wff)

12 Yes, elections have consequences. The only stop we have on the JEF is the power of the purse in the House.....................





IOW, there is no stop, those balless shit heads can't decide which side of the toilet roll to wipe their ass with.

Posted by: Vic at January 11, 2013 12:09 PM (53z96)

13
Defense spending is probably worse than earmarks overall.
I have a friend in the defense industry. He said the army stopped buying some product of theirs because they didn't need it anymore. Our Senator stepped in and added it back to the budget, leaving the army to find a way out of the contract to spend the money on something they did need.

I'm not sure how to solve this problem, but it clearly needs to be addressed. Do we really need [X weapon here] or is it just a kickback to get someone elected and keep a state employment level up?

Posted by: tsrblke at January 11, 2013 12:09 PM (GaqMa)

14
"If we go back to '07, we had the Army we have today, and it was surging in Iraq, with all the logistical support it needed," says one senior GOP Senate aide. "No one in '07 was screaming that we didn't have enough money for the military."

Because, look at the 5 year trajectory. They were all getting budget increases.

Now people are talking about cuts. Cuts = screams of "You're killing teh childrunz!"

Even $1 in cuts will cause our country to be conquered by North Korea. Because, it's the thin end of the wedge you see. Any cut happening any time ever would prove that cuts are possible, and that might encourage people to try more cutting! It must not be allowed to happen. Rhetoric must go to elventy, the ensure that cutting is never seen as realistically possible solution to absolutely anything.

Cut for Beiber, not government.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 12:09 PM (TULs6)

15 If taken seriously, it would be easy to take 25% out of defense without any loss of readiness.

Maybe, but there's 700 billion of perma-stimuseless baked into the budget that should be taken out first. Any discussion of defense cuts should start with that wee fact.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 11, 2013 12:09 PM (ryAWr)

16 Unfortunately we all know we do not have to keep bases in Germany...but the cuts the prizzy makes will make will reflect more of an south paw interpretation line of defense.

Posted by: Clemenza at January 11, 2013 12:09 PM (x59Gv)

17 Just.Do.Nothing.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 11, 2013 12:11 PM (evdj2)

18 Maybe, but there's 700 billion of perma-stimuseless baked into the
budget that should be taken out first. Any discussion of defense cuts
should start with that wee fact.


Discussion, you say? Only liberals can call for discussions. And we all know what "discussion" really means in libspeak.


Posted by: Think of the Children at January 11, 2013 12:11 PM (Q0ji5)

19 I would gladly accept cutting the defense budget back to the '07 level, with one condition, and that is that all other spending reverts to that level as well. How about it Dems, are you game?

Posted by: pep at January 11, 2013 12:11 PM (YXmuI)

20 Krauty's right here. It doesn't matter. Oblamo sets the policy. The only question is whether or not Hagel is competent enough to carry it out.

Hagel sounds like another low-flying DC shit eater with a bad attitude. It doesn't take a lot to hamstring an organization so the question is are they capable of screwing up the screw up or is the 5-gon a fragile beast?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 11, 2013 12:11 PM (djdc7)

21 Yes we could cut a lot of stupid programs in defense, we could close some unneeded bases, we could save billions.


But first you would have to get Congress out of the defense budget by pork game.



That will never happen.

Posted by: Vic at January 11, 2013 12:12 PM (53z96)

22 Message-sending. Obama won reelection. He no longer has to trim, to
appear more moderate than his true instincts. He has the “flexibility”
to be authentically Obama.


I was kind of hoping The Professional Gays would do the outrage thing over the nomination of Hagel, but maybe they've realized TFG doesn't need them anymore.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 11, 2013 12:12 PM (ZKzrr)

23 Well, off the top of my head they could do away with 'diversity training' classes and the production of those folders with all the diversity rules in them, strapping pregnancy like vests on men in the military and making them exercise with it on so they 'understand' what pregnant women feel like.....and the millions of hours wasted on power point presentations.

Posted by: Tami at January 11, 2013 12:12 PM (X6akg)

24 Prediction: TFG "father of the year" in 2013. You heard it here first.

Posted by: Jakeman at January 11, 2013 12:12 PM (0skhb)

25 Football will probably be outlawed (or at least well-neutered) within the next 20 years. At least they'll make an attempt.



Posted by: Pyrocles at January 11, 2013 12:07 PM (cv5Iw)


Having a twat like King Roger in charge of the enneffell shit show should bring ruin on the sport pretty damn soon.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at January 11, 2013 12:13 PM (7wVg1)

26 Surely in 2007 it was recognized that the USN needed a budget boost concomitant with a colossal need for new shipbuilding?

Surely in 2007 it was recognized that the USAF was going to be transitioning, indeed had a colossal need to transition, to a next-generation fighter?

I fully respect Byron York, but in this case it appears that he's putting a logical flaw out there: In other words, simply because there was a base budget in a pre-Obama year that didn't cause massively reverberating complaints, that doesn't mean that budgets don't fluctuate from year to year (or at least from QDR period to QDR period), particularly in connection with strategic new acquisition programs.

Plus, frankly, the start of a wave of BRAC-induced base closings/consolidations in and around and after 2007 probably did its part to hold down the DoD budget numbers in the neighborhood that York reports. I can say from an admittedly personal perspective (i.e., my dad's USAF RD group was consolidated in the bloodiest way possible) that whether such "efficiencies" have been driven by truly sensible considerations, and whether the long-term impact will benefit US national security, is open to serious question.

Posted by: RamonAllones at January 11, 2013 12:13 PM (3lLli)

27 Fuck Iran. Is there any way we could get Israel to do an air strike on DC?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 11, 2013 12:13 PM (zF6Iw)

28 Indian military budget, with attendant instability on their western border.

Elizabeth Warren's people have a military?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 11, 2013 12:14 PM (GFM2b)

29 Morning all.

Posted by: jewells45 at January 11, 2013 12:15 PM (l/N7H)

30 Also, mark my words. There will be Republicans voting to confirm Hagel.

Posted by: Vic at January 11, 2013 12:15 PM (53z96)

31 Is there any way we could get Israel to do an air strike on DC?

No kidding. I'm now convinced that if/when Israel hits Iran, Obama will fire on Israel. And that, boys and girls, is why the US doesn't exist in Revelations.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 11, 2013 12:15 PM (B/VB5)

32 Clemenza, do you ever read things you've just written for clarity? Because I get the impression that you have something to say, but your message delivery is positively Presidential (sans TOTUS).

Posted by: jwpaine (@PirateBallerina) at January 11, 2013 12:16 PM (VcDCJ)

33 Obama got a comfortable margin of the Jewish vote, so as long as he keeps them happy with leftist domestic policies, they're fine with whatever he feels like doing to Israel.

Posted by: kbdabear at January 11, 2013 12:17 PM (wwsoB)

34 Andrew Cuomo said he wants New York State to be the nation's "progressive capital" and also wants to raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $8.75. What the fuck?

I'm starting to get jaded with all this shit...

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 11, 2013 12:17 PM (5UlAL)

35
Also, mark my words. There will be Republicans voting to confirm Hagel.
Posted by: Vic at January 11, 2013 12:15 PM (53z96)
=======
Not the hill to die on!

Posted by: Gutless Old Pansies at January 11, 2013 12:17 PM (MPjT8)

36 @33: "ethnically Jewish" is probably more accurate. I doubt the sort of "Jewish" person who votes for Obama is terribly observant of the Torah.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 11, 2013 12:18 PM (B/VB5)

37 Revelation. no s

Posted by: Al at January 11, 2013 12:19 PM (V70Uh)

38 Also, mark my words. There will be Republicans voting to confirm Hagel.
Posted by: Vic at January 11, 2013 12:15 PM (53z96)
=======
Not the hill to die on!

Posted by: Gutless Old Pansies at January 11, 2013 12:17 PM (MPjT

Zion?

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2013 12:20 PM (XUKZU)

39 "But first you would have to get Congress out of the defense budget by pork game."



That will never happen.
Posted by: Vic at January 11, 2013 12:12 PM (53z96) If Congressmen were paid a base pay of $500,000 per year and they received a bonus of $500,000 each year they stayed within the budget targets, you would find they are excellent cost cutters.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:20 PM (ZDsRL)

40 Fuck Iran. Is there any way we could get Israel to do an air strike on DC?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing

If only.

Hi Jewells....How are you?

Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:20 PM (G+Wff)

41 The defense budget is not a hill we should die on.If taken seriously, it would be easy to take 25% out of defense without any loss of readiness.
Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:05 PM (ZDsRL)

I'm altogether sick of the phrase, 'x is not a hill we should die on,' (with 'x' being any issue one can name) and not because it ends with a preposition. So tell me, upon which hill, what issue,do you think we should take a stand? I'm genuinely curious. Seems to me we're continually encouraging GOP politicians to retreat, fall back, no not here not this issue not worth it. At what point, on what issue, do we draw a line and say this far and no further?

Running away becomes a habit. Time to stop running, turn, and fight, in my view--on every issue. Give them nothing. Stand on principles. Take the chance that it might be politically damaging because--given the hostility of the press and the ruthlessness of our opponents--it will be politically damaging no matter what we do.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 12:21 PM (vtiE6)

42 what IS the hill to die on?

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 11, 2013 12:21 PM (8sCoq)

43 It's all according to Obama's plan. I have said we will be decades recovering (if we have full power in DC). Our military posture, alliances, strength of the dollar, the economy, etcetcetc are being transformed. We shouldn't act surprised and I'm almost past caring trying to explain it to the LIV.

Flip a coin. EIther LiB or PerpetualCampaign 24/7/365 with flamethrowers set to "11".

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 11, 2013 12:22 PM (X/+QT)

44 DOD needs to be downsized just like everything else. I'm sorry, but having 35,000 troops in South Korea, 30,000 in Japan, another 40,000 in Germany, etc., etc., WHY WHY WHY?

Seriously... show me where in the Constitution it authorizes us to be the world's police force? Japan should pay for its own defense. Korea should pay for its own defense. Qatar should pay for its own defense. Bahrain should pay for its own defense. Europe should pay for its own defense... and this list continues to go on for quite a while. And Israel should pay for its own defense too.

Hagel isn't anti-Israel, he's anti-Interventionism.

I don't give two shits if Iran builds a nuclear weapon. Yes, maybe they are nuts. Maybe. I don't believe that to be the case, it's a lot of talk, but either way, I don't care. Anybody that attacks us, we vaporize them. Short of this, I don't care what they do. I do think we should be smart and keep an eye on what they are doing, of course, cut DOD in half and double CIAs budget, but it's not our business to go up to them on the playground and take their toys away. Until they have actually attacked us or said "we are coming right now to attack you", who are we to do anything? We don't practice what we preach - freedom? They are free to build a nuclear weapon.

The real problem I have is this is the single issue dividing the GOP and keeping us from winning elections. Obama and his socialist agenda is winning because of this one issue. When it comes to anything except so-called defense, which is really just meddlesome international politics, we say cut spending. But we're complete and total hypocrites because of this issue. How many trillions have been blown in the middle east over this nonsense?

Is Iran more important than cutting spending and literally preventing the complete and total collapse of our country. Who gives a shit about being the world's superpower and being able to have troops deployed everywhere at once. IF THE ECONOMY CRASHES WE CAN'T DO THAT ANYWAY.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:22 PM (HS3dy)

45 Let it burn. This fucking country needs a horse enema, and it will come, it will come.

Posted by: maddogg at January 11, 2013 12:22 PM (OlN4e)

46 Speaking of government waste and progressive capitals, not all video games are bad for you. This one is Obama subsidized for your benefit:



A new video game featuring a black alien female superhero delivered to Earth to fight global warming is about to hit the market thanks to a $100,000 grant from the Obama administration.

The National Endowment for the Arts is funding the Spelman College of Atlanta, Ga.’s multi-episode game called “HERadventure.” In the grant announcement made last year, the NEA said the story “focuses on a young female superhero sent to Earth to save her own planet from devastation because of climate changes caused by social issues impacting women and girls.”

The game is set to debut on March 8 on International Women’s Day.

The college’s digital newspaper described the project this way: “What would happen if the societal issues affecting women put other planets at risk? Well, of course, HER, a black female superhero, would swoop in with a plan to save the universe. HER is central to HERadventure, a science fiction-based, multimedia platform project that interweaves virtual worlds, digital and social media to create a gaming and storytelling experience. HERadventure not only entertains but tackles social issues that permeate the daily reality of many women.”

Linked on The Corner.


Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2013 12:23 PM (XUKZU)

47 The F-22 and F-35 are probably a waste of money. The necessity of stealthiness for piloted aircraft is fast becoming an obsolete idea when there's going to be a wave of drones and Tomahawks ahead of them neutralizing AA defenses.

I bet we wind up recommissioning some of the old F-17's at some point because they had a thermal diffusing exhaust design and present less of a IR target for manpads.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 12:23 PM (BNacf)

48 Running away becomes a habit. Time to stop running, turn, and fight, in my view--on every issue. Give them nothing. Stand on principles. Take the chance that it might be politically damaging because--given the hostility of the press and the ruthlessness of our opponents--it will be politically damaging no matter what we do.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 12:21 PM (vtiE6)


^^^
Cut.Jib.Newsletter.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at January 11, 2013 12:24 PM (Qxe/p)

49 Shorter version of Bammy's strategy: Pentagon becomes another Muslim Outreach program.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:24 PM (UOM48)

50 Translation:

We're fucked.

Posted by: © Sponge at January 11, 2013 12:24 PM (UK9cE)

51 Thats right, the USA is amongst the nations and peoples arrayed against Israel in the end times. Jews are always set to 11

Posted by: Bigby's Birchat Kohanim at January 11, 2013 12:26 PM (xETma)

52 And on an off-topic note, we should outlaw boxing if we outlaw guns.

---\

Buffoon Biden said outlawing guns would be worth it if it saved one child's life. Hannity responded by saying that banning automobiles will save a heck of a lot more than one kid's life.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2013 12:26 PM (XUKZU)

53 what IS the hill to die on?

It used to be the Constitution. You know, that little book thingy?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 11, 2013 12:26 PM (zF6Iw)

54 ...says one senior GOP Senate aide.

Time for me to change my registration. I don't want to get sent to the same camp as these turds.

Posted by: t-bird at January 11, 2013 12:27 PM (FcR7P)

55 Ban golf clubs. How many golfers are killed by lightning every year?

Even one is too many.

Ban!

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:27 PM (UOM48)

56 what IS the hill to die on?

---

Free shit. We want our free shit. We die on a hill of free shit.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 11, 2013 12:27 PM (XUKZU)

57 Running away becomes a habit. Time to stop running, turn, and fight, in my view--on every issue. Give them nothing. Stand on principles. Take the chance that it might be politically damaging because--given the hostility of the press and the ruthlessness of our opponents--it will be politically damaging no matter what we do.
Posted by: troyriser
Whether you are a male or female - I love you. Thanks.

Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:27 PM (G+Wff)

58 Ban golf clubs. How many golfers are killed by lightning every year?

Even one is too many.

Ban!


Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:27 PM (UOM4


Hey now. I have so little. Please stop taking everything away.

Posted by: © Sponge at January 11, 2013 12:27 PM (UK9cE)

59 No kidding. I'm now convinced that if/when Israel hits Iran, Obama will fire on Israel. And that, boys and girls, is why the US doesn't exist in Revelations.
Posted by: Ian S. at January 11, 2013 12:15 PM (B/VB5)

Scrutinizing The Book of Revelation looking for clues to the future is a bad business, in my view, and so is attempting to interpret it according to current events. When I first became a Christian (after being an atheist most of my adult life), a devout friend told me to stay in the day andlive every day as if that is the day He returns. Would to God more people spent time poring over the Song Of Solomon.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 12:28 PM (vtiE6)

60 a black alien female superhero delivered to Earth to fight global warming

So are we talking hawt black female or Moochelle?

Posted by: Ian S. at January 11, 2013 12:28 PM (B/VB5)

61 what IS the hill to die on?

Faith Hill?

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at January 11, 2013 12:29 PM (BrQrN)

62 Are all the millions is law suit settlement for people in Abu Ghraib (sp?) who are sued for having underwear put on their heads coming from the Pentagon budget? Are they paying the atty's fees for those who sued on behalf of prisoners in Iraq? Most likely cronies of this corrupt administraion.

Posted by: Deli LLama at January 11, 2013 12:29 PM (lGu1O)

63 Whether you are a male or female - I love you. Thanks.
Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:27 PM (G+Wff)

Male, if it matters. I love you back. We are all brothers and sisters here.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 12:29 PM (vtiE6)

64 Tonic Dog, I continue to get fundraising emails from TFG and his minions, which would lead me to believe perpetual campaign is a given.

Posted by: Jakeman at January 11, 2013 12:30 PM (0skhb)

65 people what die on hills need better forward observers

Posted by: Bigby's Birchat Kohanim at January 11, 2013 12:30 PM (xETma)

66 "Also, mark my words. There will be Republicans voting to confirm Hagel." From my neck of the woods I would put money on Moocowski as a yes. I don't like to hate but she is on the exception list.

Posted by: Bosk at January 11, 2013 12:31 PM (n2K+4)

67 60
a black alien female superhero delivered to Earth to fight global warming




She'll have to first take out Al "Methane" Roker.


For Gaia.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:31 PM (UOM48)

68 I don't give two shits if Iran builds a nuclear weapon. Yes, maybe they are nuts. Maybe. I don't believe that to be the case, it's a lot of talk, but either way, I don't care.
Posted by: Andrew


Yeah, I pretty much stopped right there. If you don't see the dangers of a nuclear capable Iran, we have nothing in common.

Apparently the single greatest creator of terrorism today won't become more dangerous with nukes. Ok. Right.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 11, 2013 12:31 PM (djdc7)

69 There's a trial balloon that the Obama campaign apparatus will be converted in-place into a SuperPAC. So yes, perpetual campaign.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 11, 2013 12:31 PM (B/VB5)

70 @44
The problem of walking away is who walks in to fill that vacuum. In Asia it will be China, in Europe it will be Putin, and everywhere else it will be those wacky jihadis.
You can't just create a power vacuum and not expect consequences.

Posted by: votermom at January 11, 2013 12:31 PM (S8IQW)

71 Hagel himself doesn’t matter

Could have saved a lot of trees by acknowledging that sooner.

Posted by: CJ at January 11, 2013 12:31 PM (9KqcB)

72 I have become utterly convinced that folks who can't find "a hill to die on" are actually on the other team.

Even when it may be true, cowardice has discredited discretion.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (GBXon)

73 Are we still going to have Mooch out campaigning, pretending to care about the military and their families?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (UOM48)

74 HERadventure not only entertains but tackles social issues that permeate the daily reality of many women.”Will HER swoop in and wipe away blood thirsty child abusing Muslims that "marry" young girls as young as 12.....that will slit the throat of their own daughter if they even suspect that she has been with a man, that will rape a young boy and keep him in slavery????? Will HER do that?

Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (G+Wff)

75 No Big deal, everyone loves America/ americans now.

Now we'll have more money to spend on projects good for Americans jobs and the economy, nice green jobs.

also perhaps a raise in phone units better phones , i want an iphone personally , I'm sure i'll get one even though i never received a unicorn or a free phone yet.

Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (nqBYe)

76 If taken seriously, it would be easy to take 25% out of defense without any loss of readiness.

Yes...if taken seriously.

However, Obama uses the entire Federal government to feather the nests of his supporters.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (T0NGe)

77 finally a world at peace without that stupid world cop america holding folks down.

Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:33 PM (nqBYe)

78 hagel is the opposite of my fp strategy, which is to leave everything be, pull out of everywhere, drop foreign aid and tell em all not to fuck with israel or we come back in a big way, pissed as hell

Posted by: Bigby's Birchat Kohanim at January 11, 2013 12:34 PM (xETma)

79 "I'm now convinced that if/when Israel hits Iran, Obama will fire on Israel."

ROFL

Can you name for me please the one and only socialist country in all the Middle East? Hint, it starts with an 'I'

Republicans are so ass backwards when it comes to Israel. No idea what they are financing over there.

We're level-headed when it comes to choosing sides between two tribes in Africa but not this... lol

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:34 PM (HS3dy)

80 climate changes caused by social issues impacting women and girls

They thought Romney was going to ban weaves, but it was Algore all along.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 11, 2013 12:34 PM (ZKzrr)

81 You can't just create a power vacuum and not expect consequences.

I beg to differ

Posted by: Meat Flaps: The Sandra Fluke Story at January 11, 2013 12:34 PM (BrQrN)

82 @58

Ban Golf clubs? Hell yeah!


http://tinyurl.com/4r283mu

Posted by: Billy Bob, the 1% at January 11, 2013 12:34 PM (S1INM)

83
However, Obama uses the entire Federal government to feather the nests of his supporters.
Posted by: AmishDude at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (T0NGe) I couldn't understand why Romney, with his background of trimming bloated businesses, kept on saying that he would increase defense spending.Not smart.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:35 PM (ZDsRL)

84 HERadventure not only entertains but tackles social issues that permeate the daily reality of many women.”Will HER swoop in and wipe away blood thirsty child abusing Muslims that "marry" young girls as young as 12.....that will slit the throat of their own daughter if they even suspect that she has been with a man, that will rape a young boy and keep him in slavery????? Will HER do that?
Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (G+Wff)

Of course not. That would be culturally insensitive, you see.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 11, 2013 12:35 PM (v+QvA)

85 Andrew, you been saving up those silver dimes?

Posted by: Vizzini at January 11, 2013 12:36 PM (O7Q1u)

86 what IS the hill to die on?

2nd Amendment.
Or the government WILL decide which ditch you die IN.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 11, 2013 12:36 PM (GFM2b)

87 @59,

First of all I am not a very good Christian IMO. But I believe and tremble (like the demons). I am banking on that one verse.."The last shall be first and the first shall be last".

IMO No one can predict the future from Revelations. After it happens or while it is happening maybe. But before..never!

Only the God knows when he will come. If they say he is here or he is there do not believe. When the Lord comes his face will flash like lightening and fire all through the sky! Everyone shall see and know.

Just my humble opinion!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at January 11, 2013 12:37 PM (7vs46)

88 I must now, regretfully, own my fail.

I wasn't sold on the idea but voiced it as an optimistic possibility. The fact that I, following four years of TFG, could have even expressed such optimism is, in itself, a fail.

No.

Obama does not/will not, despite his narcissism, appeal to his more moderate betters in order to improve his legacy.

While many lesser narcissists might cave to a need for a glowing legacy, his narcissism is so pervasive as to prevent even the tiniest bit of self-preservation necessary to weigh the immediacy of his wants against his long-term gain: Legacy be damned.

The history books are no longer written by the winners, thus we will be reading about the damage this fucker has done for a century. Sure, there will be glowing reviews, but glowing reviews will only sell so-well. It will be the ugly truth which will make the authors millionaires and celebrities.

The best that can be said is that we live in interesting times and reading about all that we don't now know shall be entertaining and terrifying indeed.

Only his foolish attempt to take away our weapons will be the straw which breaks the liberty-camel's back. Some day we will read of just how close we came to losing it all.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:37 PM (piMMO)

89 The Iranian people aren't nuts...the Guardians Council, not so much.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 12:38 PM (BNacf)

90
The problem of walking away is who walks in to fill that vacuum. In Asia it will be China, in Europe it will be Putin, and everywhere else it will be those wacky jihadis.
You can't just create a power vacuum and not expect consequences.


If you just up and bugged out, yes.

But you could transition toward having our allies pick up the slack, instead of infanticizing them.

In Asia, an alliance amongst Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Philipines, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. could keep China in check. Granted they aren't always on the greatest of terms with each other, but an ascendent China could persuade them to put aside their differences and protect each other, so as not to be devoured seperately.

The same is true elsewhere.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 12:38 PM (TULs6)

91 Fine, I'll be the odd man out. Considering the fact that D.C. values Order over Freedom, I don't have any problem with them defunding the Army.

Posted by: Invictus at January 11, 2013 12:38 PM (OQpzc)

92 Will HER swoop in and wipe away blood thirsty child abusing Muslims that "marry" young girls as young as 12

Well, my guess is they'll do it on Unreal Engine, in which case user mods should be easy and plentiful. I'm sure someone will throw together an AoSHQ Edition where she's nude, drinks Valu-Rite, and shoots hobos with death beams that come out of her elbows.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 11, 2013 12:38 PM (B/VB5)

93 Hagel isn't anti-Israel, he's anti-Interventionism. I don't give two shits if Iran builds a nuclear weapon.

Could have saved yourself a lot of pixels and just typed "fuck the Jews," Andrew.

Because that's what a nuclear Iran means. If you're fine with that, then own it.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 11, 2013 12:38 PM (zF6Iw)

94 A new video game featuring a black alien female superhero delivered to
Earth to fight global warming is about to hit the market thanks to a
$100,000 grant from the Obama administration.


Can you play this on an obamaphone? No?



Spend $1000 EBT credits in one day.

Free Shit Army Achievement Unlocked!

Posted by: EC at January 11, 2013 12:39 PM (GQ8sn)

95 73
Are we still going to have Mooch out campaigning, pretending to care about the military and their families?


Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (UOM4

My defining moment and true character of Mooch exposed is when by day, she had picnic with military members and their families, then that very same day, hosted poet/rapper Common at the Big White. Common is creator of the most vile lyrics that cheers on cop killings and denegrats women is the most disgusting way. That is who she is; as vile as Common and all gangsta rappers, a racist and hates the military. She is a vile, disgusting person and the media lets her hide.

Posted by: Deli LLama at January 11, 2013 12:39 PM (lGu1O)

96 85
Andrew, you been saving up those silver dimes?


I think he's cornered the market on lead...paint chips.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 12:39 PM (BNacf)

97 Wait, wait, wait, I see Krauthammer is asserting that there was foreign policy during the first term of TFG. Objection, presumes facts not in evidence.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 11, 2013 12:39 PM (VtjlW)

98 more money for pet projects!
more business like GM saved!

heck we're going to be rolling in the dough , and we won't ever have to get a job again!

Imagine a world without america as superpower, I'm thrilled we'll hand that over to China or Russia.

finally money better spent at home on cool things like aborting dirty little kids that mess up our lifestyles anyway.

Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:40 PM (nqBYe)

99 "The problem of walking away is who walks in to fill that vacuum. In Asia
it will be China, in Europe it will be Putin, and everywhere else it
will be those wacky jihadis.
You can't just create a power vacuum and not expect consequences."

I totally understand that, again, don't care. What part of broke are we confused about?

In the Middle East we choose one dictator over another. I've been living there for years, been everywhere in the mid east as both civilian and with military. Let me tell you, they are all bad. Let them fight over it, I don't care if it's the Qataris, the Bahrainis, the Saudis, or the Iranians that control the gas fields in the gulf. To the victor go the spoils. If we're going to be over there protecting it, it should be our damn gas field. We should sent Iraq a bill for the cost of the whole war + a heft fund for the family of every man we lost. Piss on them, why are we ruining our economy so they can shit on us and drive around in ferraris and land cruisers. Seriously, piss on them.

I don't care if China fills a vaccum in Asia... we can't stop it. We don't have the money. And even if we did, what exactly are we trying to stop? The South Koreans have more PhDs per capita than any country in the world. They are smart, they are hard working, they are tough. Let them build their own damn military to keep China at bay. Ditto for Japan, they aren't going to roll over.

If they want us to provide them with defense, ok, I say we do it if and only if they are willing to pay for all the costs + a reasonable profit.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:40 PM (HS3dy)

100 So there!

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at January 11, 2013 12:40 PM (tWFaN)

101
Along the same lines as Romney opposing cutting defense, Rush is now talking about digital medicalrecords.

How the fuck smart people talk themselves into opposing ideas that are obviously good just to be on the other side of liberals is beyond me.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:40 PM (ZDsRL)

102 As for the increase in spending with a concommit decrease in troops and readiness...where is the money going???

I give you Green Initiatives, the green navy, electric cars. Research into DOD applications of the same

Posted by: thunderb at January 11, 2013 12:40 PM (CxKRZ)

103 16 Unfortunately we all know we do not have to keep bases in Germany...but the cuts the prizzy makes will make will reflect more of an south paw interpretation line of defense.
Posted by: Clemenza at January 11, 2013 12:09 PM (x59Gv)
---

Which is why the Republicans should be proposing preemptive cuts to our military presence in Europe.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 11, 2013 12:41 PM (qw+yV)

104 someone know that program that makes assholes disappear on AOS?

Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:41 PM (nqBYe)

105 Could have saved yourself a lot of pixels and just typed "fuck the Jews," Andrew.

.....

And that's just for starters.

Israel is kindling.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:41 PM (piMMO)

106 91 technically, thats how its supposed to work between wars. maybe a perverse incentive for more wars tho

Posted by: Bigby's Birchat Kohanim at January 11, 2013 12:41 PM (xETma)

107
Obama just wants Republican cover for gutting the military.

And there won't be too many cuts. Oh, to tanks and planes and ships and shit like that. Stuff you need to fight a war.

There will be plenty of money, though, for biofuels and electric jeeps and shit like that. Billions.

Obama is gonna make Jack Murtha look like he was wearing training pants.

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 11, 2013 12:41 PM (tOkJB)

108 @86 Rick 223,

2nd amendment is the hill to die on. Do you think these worthless Republican freaks will grow a pair? I am starting to think it's not a 2 party system, it's just one party with 2 faces.

If the Republicans do not draw a line in the sand and back it up, it's time for a new party!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at January 11, 2013 12:41 PM (7vs46)

109 Give the American people what they voted for.

Destroy all procurement in R+D and bring all troops home.

Phase out the US military over 10 years, eliminate all nuclear weapons.

We'll community organize the world to sanity.

Fuck the dems.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:42 PM (LRFds)

110 Only his foolish attempt to take away our weapons will be the straw which breaks the liberty-camel's back. Some day we will read of just how close we came to losing it all.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse
I've been saying this for awhile. They will try everything in the book to do this but it will never happen. Americans will never give up their guns....doesn't matter if your a R or a D. It. Is. Not. Going. To. Happen.

Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:42 PM (G+Wff)

111 alex, well sure there was a foreign policy objective.

america stands down. (benghazi style) Now it will be full petal to the metal.

Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:43 PM (nqBYe)

112 oh, and tea.!

Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:43 PM (nqBYe)

113 I was kind of hoping The Professional Gays would do the outrage thing over the nomination of Hagel, but maybe they've realized TFG doesn't need them anymore.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 11, 2013 12:12 PM (ZKzrr)



They did. They're being ignored.


This, of course, causes me much glee.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 11, 2013 12:43 PM (VtjlW)

114 Will HER do that?
Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:32 PM (G+Wff)
---

HERg. The new Gerg, but with a bigger dick.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (qw+yV)

115 Fuck.

Even Rand Paul would look at Andrew's POV and declare him an isolationist asshole.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (piMMO)

116 Her, the rugmuncher from space.

Posted by: Mike Hunt at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (AMSn4)

117 108 Judge roy bean,

I thin k you misspelled country in your close there bud.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (LRFds)

118
My defining moment and true character of Mooch exposed is when by
day, she had picnic with military members and their families, then that
very same day, hosted poet/rapper Common at the Big White. Common is
creator of the most vile lyrics that cheers on cop killings and
denegrats women is the most disgusting way. That is who she is; as vile
as Common and all gangsta rappers, a racist and hates the military. She
is a vile, disgusting person and the media lets her hide.




Then she and Barky hosted Psy for some sort of televised music special. The guy who wrote "songs" glorifying the killing of troops and the kidnapping and torture of their families.


Mooch and TFG are two of the nastiest, most despicable grifters to ever inhabit our White House.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (UOM48)

119 2nd amendment is the hill to die on. Do you think these worthless Republican freaks will grow a pair? I am starting to think it's not a 2 party system, it's just one party with 2 faces.

If the Republicans do not draw a line in the sand and back it up, it's time for a new party!


I cannot control or influence DC. The 2nd Amendment is MY hill.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (GFM2b)

120 I can't remember what day we have the guns and hunting thread .
I have a question or two .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (USjX1)

121 "Andrew, you been saving up those silver dimes?"

People always assume things. Would it surprise you to know I'm actually a vet, and current defense contractor, own my own business, have several DOD contracts, and up until a few weeks ago was in Afghanistan. I would happily vote no as a citizen, but as a capitalist someone's going to get paid so might as well be me...

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:45 PM (HS3dy)

122 If you just up and bugged out, yes.

But you could transition toward having our allies pick up the slack, instead of infanticizing them.

In Asia, an alliance amongst Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Philipines, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. could keep China in check. Granted they aren't always on the greatest of terms with each other, but an ascendent China could persuade them to put aside their differences and protect each other, so as not to be devoured seperately.

The same is true elsewhere.

In theory yes. In practice there are at least two problems:
1) - This is Obama we are talking about. What are the chances he would act prudently and not bugger things up by grandstanding?

2) Even in your example: Japan, SK, Philippines, Thailand, etc - the geo-ethnic faultlines exist and can be easily exploited by China. They work together well now because Uncle Sam is there to smack them on the back of the head if they don't.

I think we can spend more wisely on defense and save money, but first we'd need a CiC who actually had a patriotic bone in his body.

Posted by: votermom at January 11, 2013 12:45 PM (S8IQW)

123 111 -ette,

and as long as it doesn't get my wife killed as a Judas goat to Obama's demons I am game.

Give the American people PRECISELY what they voted for on defense.

Let the voters clean up their mess.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:45 PM (LRFds)

124 I tried using italics and failed

Posted by: votermom at January 11, 2013 12:46 PM (S8IQW)

125
88...The best that can be said is that we live in interesting times and reading about all that we don't now know shall be entertaining and terrifying indeed.

Yeah, NDH...I think we're into the days of the Full Chinese Curse.

Which has 3 parts:

1) May you live in interesting times.

2) May the government authorities become aware of you.

3) May you get what you have asked for.

Posted by: wheatie at January 11, 2013 12:46 PM (fH4X9)

126 It'll take another 9/11 to remind them. 'Never forget' is just a forgotten punch line.

Posted by: Navin Johnson at January 11, 2013 12:46 PM (fgVQT)

127 120 I can't remember what day we have the guns and hunting thread .
I have a question or two .
Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (USjX1)
---

Well if you wait around for the ONT or for a long, lingering afternoon thread to fully devolve, you should be in luck

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 11, 2013 12:46 PM (qw+yV)

128 108 practical key to any new party is to unify all the pox on both houses types. could be done. a lot of peple dont vote now.

Posted by: Bigby's Birchat Kohanim at January 11, 2013 12:47 PM (xETma)

129 Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:40 PM (HS3dy)

Sorry your guy Dr. Ron Paul didn't make the grade in the primaries, Andrew. Maybe it would've helped if Dr. Ron Paul wasn't so batshit fucking crazy, but who knows?. If it helps to ease the sting of that loss, it seems his son Rand seems to share many if not most of his father's beliefs regarding Jews and their role in the Bildersburger/Illuminati conspiracy to take over the world. That should help you rest easy at night, knowing yet another conspiracy-minded, bigoted piece of shit is ready to take up the cause.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 12:47 PM (vtiE6)

130 hagel is a direct shot across the bow of Israel and he will stand by and do and say nothing while obama destroys the Military and every enemy we have takes advantage of the weakness in Washington. And that's just for starters. Say good-by to our nuclear deterant.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 11, 2013 12:47 PM (9Bj8R)

131 The South Koreans have more PhDs per
capita than any country in the world. They are smart, they are hard
working, they are tough. Let them build their own damn military to keep
China at bay. Ditto for Japan, they aren't going to roll over.

If
they want us to provide them with defense, ok, I say we do it if and
only if they are willing to pay for all the costs + a reasonable profit.



Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:40 PM (HS3dy



Paging EoJ, paging EoJ. We've got a live one for ya.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at January 11, 2013 12:47 PM (UOM48)

132 My defining moment and true character of Mooch exposed is when by day, she had picnic with military members and their families, then that very same day, hosted poet/rapper Common at the Big White. Common is creator of the most vile lyrics that cheers on cop killings and denegrats women is the most disgusting way. That is who she is; as vile as Common and all gangsta rappers, a racist and hates the military. She is a vile, disgusting person and the media lets her hide.

Posted by: Deli LLama at January 11, 2013 12:39 PM (lGu1O)


Jumped-up ghetto trash. In the same house where slept Laura Bush, Grace Coolidge,Ida McKinley, Dolly Madison and an entire line of women whose shoes Mooch isn't fit to lick. To paraphrase Mort Sahl, you have to wonder just how much of that kind of progress a country can stand.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 11, 2013 12:47 PM (zF6Iw)

133 126 Navin Johnson.

I'll be quiet.

let's just say by august of '09 I wanted to key a LOT of 'we support the troops" cars....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:48 PM (LRFds)

134 She is a vile, disgusting person and the media lets her hide.
Posted by: Deli LLama
They don't let her hide silly! They celebrate her! She is so smart, witty, chic, caring....blah, blah. We should all want to be her!

Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:48 PM (G+Wff)

135 Dems are so cute, remember after 9-11!!!!!!! DO sooomething! Why didn't you stop them!!!! omg, Doo something!!

now, eh, let the assholes run the world, i don't care about any casualties here or theree, just give me my stuff!

l.i.a.r.s.



Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:48 PM (nqBYe)

136 Funny.

Looks like Bryon York finally found opposition to baseline budgeting. In defense spending.

That being said, the military is entirely too large. We have 0 business being the world's policeman.

And the VA will never get cut. The VA is a jobs program for illiterate minority democrats in DC.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 11, 2013 12:49 PM (3j24r)

137 125
88...The best that can be said is that we live in interesting times and reading about all that we don't now know shall be entertaining and terrifying indeed.

Yeah, NDH...I think we're into the days of the Full Chinese Curse.

Which has 3 parts:

1) May you live in interesting times.

2) May the government authorities become aware of you.

3) May you get what you have asked for.


......

As a collective...

Check.

Check.

Check.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:49 PM (piMMO)

138 ONT is kinda' like ladies nite at the local watering hole and Ace will probably pick this afternoon for one of his manic posting orgies .
But , who knows ?

Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 12:50 PM (USjX1)

139
124I tried using italics and failed

Just admit to yourself that we are part of the great unwashed - the non-elite of the AoS crowd.

Italics and bolding are for the upper classes. I accept my lot of not even getting proper line spacing.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:50 PM (ZDsRL)

140 Give the American people PRECISELY what they voted for on defense.

Let the voters clean up their mess.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:45 PM (LRFds)
---

Yes, please. The progs fucking won, so a prog government the sheep shall receive. Raise taxes and increase spending big time, destroy our foreign policy and domestic living conditions. Of course, I can never get behind the gun grabbing because firearms are our constitutional right and they may be needed if the sheep are dumb enough to let the progs collapse the economy while they sit at home watching Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Hillbillies.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 11, 2013 12:50 PM (qw+yV)

141 Thank you, ette.

I can't remember what day we have the guns and hunting thread .
I have a question or two .
Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (USjX1)


I don't think anyone would have a problem with every thread being a gun thread.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 11, 2013 12:50 PM (VtjlW)

142 134 She is a vile, disgusting person and the media lets her hide.
Posted by: Deli LLama
They don't let her hide silly! They celebrate her! She is so smart, witty, chic, caring....blah, blah. We should all want to be her!


.....

You forgot to mention beautiful and fit.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:51 PM (piMMO)

143 >Italics and bolding are for the upper classes. I accept my lot of not even getting proper line spacing.



I'm still working on underline and strike thru

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 11, 2013 12:51 PM (8sCoq)

144 Just admit to yourself that we are part of the great unwashed - the non-elite of the AoS crowd.

Italics and bolding are for the upper classes. I accept my lot of not even getting proper line spacing.
-----------

I humbly proffer my ritual apology to my betters.

Posted by: votermom at January 11, 2013 12:52 PM (S8IQW)

145 140 Not ready to Unsock,

Yup the problem with defeating Santa Claus is we protect free shit army from the blowback too well.

Tikme to let them get precisely what they voted for in every non bill of rights killing way.

You want no military so Sandy Fluck can get pooter pills?

No problem!

You want to tax doctors into penury?

No problem!

You want me muzzled or my guns taken or to seize my land....

fuck you

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:53 PM (LRFds)

146 I'm still working on underline and strike thru

....

'u' and 's'

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:53 PM (piMMO)

147 Have to hit the grocers. Perhaps i can squeeze the life out of the fruit and slam the broccoli.
bl

Posted by: ette- at January 11, 2013 12:53 PM (nqBYe)

148 141Alex The Chick,

maybe the hostages.....

of course they aren't here much these days.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:54 PM (LRFds)

149 People always assume things.
Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:45 PM (HS3dy)
---

People are people. Even in this place, if you run too sharp against the grain they'll try to sand you down.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 11, 2013 12:54 PM (qw+yV)

150 Say good-by to our nuclear deterant.

For some reason, Obama had a new generation of nuclear weapons commissioned beyond the maintenance of existing old stock.

I don't think he has any intention of eliminating them. I think that's eyewash for the progressive rubes. Dictators like powerful weapons.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 12:54 PM (BNacf)

151 Iran will get the bomb and Israel is in mortal danger with enemies increasing around it at an alarming rate.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 11, 2013 12:54 PM (9Bj8R)

152 Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:53 PM (LRFds)
----

YES!

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (qw+yV)

153 I can't remember what day we have the guns and hunting thread . I have a question or two .
Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 12:44 PM (USjX1)

I'm sure you'll find a moron or two who are more than willing to answer your questions, regardless of which thread you post them in.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (DrWcr)

154 Also, once the navy gets rail guns fully online (probably by 2020), the entire military landscape will change like it did with the advent of shit like airplanes, machine guns, etc.

1 railgun can put out the same firepower in an hour as an entire aircraft carrier strike group.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (3j24r)

155 150 PA,

I suspect he is gaming micro-nukes for targeted EMP for use on "bad areas" here in CONUS.

I am not kidding.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (LRFds)

156 Iran will get the bomb and Israel is in mortal danger with enemies increasing around it at an alarming rate.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 11, 2013 12:54 PM (9Bj8R)

Yeah, but Israel has the bomb. Stand by to stand by.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (l86i3)

157 147 Have to hit the grocers. Perhaps i can squeeze the life out of the fruit and slam the broccoli.

.....


Don't forget to squeeze the melons.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (piMMO)

158 I accept my lot of not even getting proper line spacing.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:50 PM (ZDsRL)



Now, now, now, it was kind of you to feed the hamsters.


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (VtjlW)

159 That is exactly what I needed to hear this afternoon. Now, I have to go have a bologna sandwich.

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (qw+yV)

160 And the VA will never get cut. The VA is a jobs program for illiterate minority democrats in DC.
Posted by: Hopeless
We do a lot of good work. Is it pork loaded at the top? Of course it is and should be cut and I mean drastically.Will it be?Doubtful.

At the facility level, we love our vets and do our damndest to take care of them. I conduct inspections weekly and was up on our ICU yesterday. We have 3 WWII/Korean war vets there in bad shape. It was sad to think that they are better off that way than to see what has happened to their country that they fought so hard for.

Posted by: Cheri at January 11, 2013 12:55 PM (G+Wff)

161 For some reason, Obama had a new generation of nuclear weapons commissioned beyond the maintenance of existing old stock.

I don't think he has any intention of eliminating them. I think that's eyewash for the progressive rubes. Dictators like powerful weapons.
Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 12:54 PM (BNacf)


I think all he did was allow computer testing of proposed new weapons. And there is a lot of talk of decimating our Nuclear Stockpile by more than 80% and counting.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 11, 2013 12:56 PM (9Bj8R)

162 "Even Rand Paul would look at Andrew's POV and declare him an isolationist asshole."

Wow, you clearly don't know Rand Paul's POV at all. You also don't understand what isolationism is. For examples of isolationism see North Korea or Iran. Those are isolationists. What I'm advocating is non-Interventionism. Huge difference. I'm all for 100% free trade.

Tell me, do you like it when the UN meddles in US affairs? How would you like it if some foreign country were trying to pressure you into living a certain way? You'd be pissed as hell and calling for war. Is it really so hard to comprehend this?

What has our interventionism abroad achieved? Nothing but a whole bunch of failures for the most part. We go into situations under the argument of security and after we're done things are even less secure than before. We waste money, we create enemies, we lose friends.

Seriously, look at what a disaster politics have become in our own country! Why do you think WE can do a better job abroad in other people's countries in lands and cultures we don't even understand. Politicians in DC who have never even traveled to these places as a tourist, you really think they are able to decide what's best on an international level?

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 12:56 PM (HS3dy)

163
I humbly proffer my ritual apology to my betters.
Posted by: votermom at January 11, 2013 12:52 PM (S8IQW) Don't be discouraged. Pixy is working on the problem.Some day, we'll be able to use all the functions as the elite. We'll be able to post links and we'll all be flying around with jet backpacks.It will be glorious.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 12:56 PM (ZDsRL)

164 160 Cheri,

If it came down to "the VA" or the pensions being protected I'll go with the pensions.

VA is gonna be the experimental playpen for IPAB anyway.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:56 PM (LRFds)

165 Just admit to yourself that we are part of the great unwashed - the non-elite of the AoS crowd.

I shouldn't rub it in. AtC might send Polly to lecture.

...oh, why not!

&&&&&
&&&&&
&&&&&
&&&&&

They see me formattin'...they hatin'...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 11, 2013 12:56 PM (GBXon)

166 161 NGU,

He only needs about 5 nukes for his purposes.

6 if you count London.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:58 PM (LRFds)

167 165 Cavil,

I am about a .333 hitter....it'd get me into Cooperstown but is not impressive here yo!

word

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:59 PM (LRFds)

168 That being said, the military is entirely too large. We have 0 business being the world's policeman.

We didn't seek it terribly vigorously, it was something we kinda stumbled into after the British empire and European colonialism fell apart.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 12:59 PM (BNacf)

169 and am i in the box?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 12:59 PM (LRFds)

170 Geez,Andrew, your argument is so.... nuanced.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 12:59 PM (piMMO)

171 Yes, I do fap to the idea of cutting edge high speed stealth frigates and destroyers (the tech which already exists) armed with railguns.

Been following some of the neat developments in compact passive nuclear power lately? It ain't just to power "50,000 homes for 50 years."

Posted by: Hopeless at January 11, 2013 12:59 PM (dkw5q)

172 Perhaps i can squeeze the life out of the fruit and slam the broccoli.

Go on. . .

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 11, 2013 12:59 PM (zF6Iw)

173 168 PA,

It's more complex than that we basically told France and the UK "fuck you" on their colonies and then decided the Soviets needed stopping....

there'll be a LOT more war if we let shit go anything goes....but fuck it I am tired of saving the world like we do free shit army as well.

Assholes

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:00 PM (LRFds)

174 Fuck Obama.


Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 11, 2013 01:00 PM (+OTLF)

175
171Yes, I do fap to the idea of cutting edge high speed stealth frigates and destroyers (the tech which already exists) armed with railguns.

I'm still fapping to the idea of being able to underline something.

Posted by: jwest at January 11, 2013 01:01 PM (ZDsRL)

176 Ok ,,, Queen alex , could you ask your royal armourer to recommend an after market trigger for the AR platform .
My current trigger is this two stage "so called" competition monstrosity . It feels to me more like a half inch of creep . A friend has a jewell trigger on his custom Mod. 70 that breaks like glass . I gots to have something like that .
I think jake in idaho shoot rifles competitively , next time he's around I'll see what he says . Any other rons or ettes have recommendations ?

Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 01:01 PM (USjX1)

177 191 Hopeless,

er "yeah" I see Choom king unleashing nuclear power...

for fuck's sakes.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:01 PM (LRFds)

178 It ain't just to power "50,000 homes for 50 years."

Though frankly, that's not a bad benefit of the research...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 11, 2013 01:01 PM (GBXon)

179 176 Awkward Davies,

http://tinyurl.com/aqxt3ye

Check out this modular drop in....

the future of triggers IMHO

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:03 PM (LRFds)

180 "Yeah, I pretty much stopped right there. If you don't see the dangers of a nuclear capable Iran, we have nothing in common. Apparently the single greatest creator of terrorism today won't become more dangerous with nukes. Ok. Right."

A few questions. 1) Have you ever been to Iran? Have you ever been to any part of the mid east? Do you work for DOD? Do you work for CIA? Do you have any special knowledge on this subject? Because according to all the publicly released information from DOD and intel community that I'm aware of, Iran is not working on a nuke, and even if they were, have absolutely zero capability of deploying it to the USA. So....what's the deal? 2) Can you name even one single documented instance of Iran attacking the United States. Name one. 3) Regardless of all this, let's just talk the principle. Can we talk about the principle. Where in Constitution is military interventionism authorized? To my knowledge, and it seems to be rather plainly written, the Constitution requires Congress to declare war. Moreover, without regard to the Constitution, how about the simple principle of the golden rule. And I don't mean that in a naive way, I'm being serious. In principle, what is the threshold by which you say it's ok for us to tell others what to do? You expect other nations to respect our sovereignty, but you are not willing to do the same?

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:03 PM (HS3dy)

181
&&&& One word: AOSpremium &&&&

Posted by: Ed Anger at January 11, 2013 01:04 PM (tOkJB)

182 178 Cavil,

Imagine if we product perfected the SL-1 and used the sites for resource exploitation in the Tundra....?

on second thought don't....

I have no mouth and I cannot scream

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:04 PM (LRFds)

183 We're doing underground nuclear testing again...

...early Dec 2012 DOE did one at Los Alamos.

http://tinyurl.com/by73m52

Subcritical though...but it sounds like they were testing a new initiator design.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 01:06 PM (BNacf)

184 Sorry sven , google chrome told me to get fucked .
Thanks anyway .

Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 01:07 PM (USjX1)

185 "Could have saved yourself a lot of pixels and just typed "fuck the Jews," Andrew.
"

Case in point... can't even have a conversation. If you aren't willing to pay for Israel then you're an anti-semite. You're a racist. Taking a page out of the Democrats playbook I see...

So, you don't think Israel is capable of defending themselves I take it?

Do you think any country should pay for its own defense? What about (insert the name of any country in africa)...? Or do you not care about them because you hate blacks? Are you a member of the KKK? You must just hate blacks. Why else would you want to pay for Israel but not the poor blacks in Africa.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:08 PM (HS3dy)

186 184 awkward davies,

that's amazing it is to "aim surplus"....fucking pixy

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:08 PM (LRFds)

187 Cheri,

I don't disagree. A lot of good comes out of the VA. But it's a sacred cow to everyone, and I stand by my comments about it's 100k+ administrators in DC, whose job is primarily to be democrats and donate to the Dems.

PurpAv,

I don't disagree. And we have done tremendous good since WW2. I even understand needing a controlled multi-decade wind down now that the cold war is over.

But it's not our job to be the worlds policeman. We need to GTFO of MENA and Europe. A strong unchallangable Navy is very important, for patrolling the seas and self defense.

Ironically, it's the US military that has allowed socialism to thrive in Europe. Once you have to take *personal responsibility for your own shit* national attitudes change.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 11, 2013 01:08 PM (89r5W)

188 Hubby just asked me on a date, First to On Target, then dinner, sounds like a good Friday evening to me

Posted by: spypeach at January 11, 2013 01:09 PM (pwTow)

189 ...and even if they were, have absolutely zero capability of deploying it to the USA...

Right, its not like FedEx or UPS make deliveries to the USA...and certainly no foreign cargo ships ever enter US waters.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 01:09 PM (BNacf)

190 aim surplus . thanks

Posted by: awkward davies at January 11, 2013 01:09 PM (USjX1)

191 189 PA,


You live on the US coasts?

If not fuck it.

Andrew wants an incinerated coastal town to purge us of our sins.

I'm game.

36 miles.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:10 PM (LRFds)

192 Piers Morgan needs his fucking teeth kicked in.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:11 PM (LRFds)

193 You live on the US coasts?

If not fuck it.

Andrew wants an incinerated coastal town to purge us of our sins.

****

Wanna bet he also drives a truck, owns a dog, goes to church on Sundays, and loves his smother?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 01:12 PM (piMMO)

194 Sven,

I think we should be selling the world the weapons to fight each other with.

Also, my nuclear comment was to imply that, in all probability, some of the recent nuclear reactor breakthroughs are were achieved to power railguns via shipborne nuclear reactors.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 11, 2013 01:12 PM (89r5W)

195 troy, how did demonizing the libertarians work out for you... did that help with getting your milquetoast candidate elected? If I'm not mistaken less people voted this year than in 2008... great job, I'm sure it had nothing to do with pissing off all the real conservatives.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:12 PM (HS3dy)

196 193 NDH,

you forgot he is pro 2d amendment with sensible restrictions, supports a healthy defense, and wants just legal weed.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:13 PM (LRFds)

197 195 Andrew,

You deserve everything Ogabe does.

I will not elect an anti-semitic dickhole to dog catcher.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:14 PM (LRFds)

198 After Mcrystal explained he thinks the Constitution he swore an oath to defend isn't toilet paper on his army issued boot, I want the fucking Army stood down. All of it. Yesterday.

Posted by: Invictus at January 11, 2013 01:14 PM (OQpzc)

199 NOVA reelected Obama, so let them take their medicine now. Every government agency could shed a few pounds, but with a Dem administration, defense is gonna go first. The good news, without Wahington's sacred cow, you can't just slip pork into defense bills anymore, or you shouldn't be able to. I wonder if the wars winding down is related to the Dems agreeing with the NRA on federal funding for armed guards in classrooms. "For the children" will become even more sinister.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at January 11, 2013 01:15 PM (7h5MH)

200
>>>I will not elect an anti-semitic dickhole to dog catcher.

Actually, I started as a peanut farmer.

Posted by: Jimmeh at January 11, 2013 01:15 PM (szUf0)

201 I hate that I can't immediately detect a regular via their hashtag because their sure seems to be a lot of haters of the empire-building U.S. here today.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 01:15 PM (piMMO)

202 198 Invictus,

don't ever talk to anyone over O-6 you'd need vapors.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:16 PM (LRFds)

203 64
Tonic Dog, I continue to get fundraising emails from TFG and his
minions, which would lead me to believe perpetual campaign is a given.

Posted by: Jakeman at January 11, 2013 12:30 PM (0skhb)

I meant on our side. WE *join* the perpetual campaign and fight harder than they do, on every issue, on every front, with every tool at our disposal, every second of the day and night. And I mean that *literally*. Lierally. No down-time. That is what fight T.P.C. means.Othewise, LiB. I don't have time for half measures.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 11, 2013 01:16 PM (X/+QT)

204 2) Can you name even one single documented instance of Iran attacking the United States. Name one.
Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:03 PM (HS3dy)

Er, um, although not a degreed foreign affairs expert, I think the ground upon which our embassies reside are considered American soil. So the answer to that one would be November 4, 1979, Tehran.

Kind of a lightweight, aren't you?

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 01:17 PM (vtiE6)

205 uh, there

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 01:18 PM (piMMO)

206 A few questions. 1) Have you ever been to Iran? Have you ever been to any part of the mid east? Do you work for DOD? Do you work for CIA? Do you have any special knowledge on this subject? Because according to all the publicly released information from DOD and intel community that I'm aware of, Iran is not working on a nuke, and even if they were, have absolutely zero capability of deploying it to the USA. So....what's the deal?

"Appeal to authority" isn't going to cut much ice with me, Andrew. And the question is not Iran attacking the US, it is Iran attacking Israel - to "wipe it off the map" in Dinnerjacket's quaint phrasing.

Moreover, without regard to the Constitution, how about the simple principle of the golden rule. And I don't mean that in a naive way, I'm being serious. In principle, what is the threshold by which you say it's ok for us to tell others what to do? You expect other nations to respect our sovereignty, but you are not willing to do the same?

I'm perfectly willing to respect sovereignity, unless such country is threatening the security of an ally.

Case in point... can't even have a conversation. If you aren't willing to pay for Israel then you're an anti-semite. You're a racist. Taking a page out of the Democrats playbook I see...

If you aren't willing to admit that a nuclear Iran poses a grave danger to the stability of the ME and to the survival of Israel, you're not interested in a conversation.

So, you don't think Israel is capable of defending themselves I take it?Do you think any country should pay for its own defense? What about (insert the name of any country in africa)...? Or do you not care about them because you hate blacks? Are you a member of the KKK? You must just hate blacks. Why else would you want to pay for Israel but not the poor blacks in Africa.

You're going to get splinters fucking that strawman, slick.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 11, 2013 01:18 PM (zF6Iw)

207 I support the dismantling of the racist right-wing war machine. It was used for illegal RethugliKKKan wars against brown people, that served only to enrich the Wall Street and "international banking" communities. You know, the Jews. The only solution for lasting world peace is for the United States to lay down its arms and become an inoffensive member of the world community. Barack Obama knows this, in his infinite multiracial wisdom. And he has chosen the wise non-partisan statesman Senator Hagel to aid him in this important work.

Let us all praise Barack as he leads us to a more correct future.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at January 11, 2013 01:18 PM (jCQ+I)

208 "Wanna bet he also drives a truck, owns a dog, goes to church on Sundays, and loves his smother?"

Does SUV count? But I do have a dog, two actually, and do usually go to church. Other than Obama who doesn't love their mom?

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:18 PM (HS3dy)

209 don't ever talk to anyone over O-6 you'd need vapors.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:16 PM (LRFds)

Best way to get rid of them is to fire them. All of them.

Posted by: Invictus at January 11, 2013 01:19 PM (OQpzc)

210 Kind of a lightweight, aren't you?

****

I'm gonna guess he's actually a freshmen civics student.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 01:19 PM (piMMO)

211 troy, how did demonizing the libertarians work out for you... did that help with getting your milquetoast candidate elected? If I'm not mistaken less people voted this year than in 2008... great job, I'm sure it had nothing to do with pissing off all the real conservatives.
Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:12 PM (HS3dy)

Nothing against libertarians, either big or little 'L', but I hold agreat deal of animus against bigoted Know Nothing, America Firster-types suborning the Libertarian Party and then trying the same with the GOP. There's nothing genuinely conservative about you. And that blatantly antisemitic, conspiratorial streak that runs through your movement? Itgives me the willies.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 01:21 PM (vtiE6)

212
I'm gonna guess he's actually a freshmen civics student.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 11, 2013 01:19 PM (piMMO)

Whomever, he seems very concerned.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 11, 2013 01:22 PM (l86i3)

213 Andrew, #180:

You weren't addressing me, but I'd like to take a flyer at your questions:

"1) Have you ever been to Iran?"
-Nope. Family all got out before I was born. I'm grateful for that, so I guess I'm hopelessly biased.

"Have you ever been to any part of the mid east?"

Yep. One of the two where the al Quds force supplied local insurgents with some very helpful tips on IED manufacture.

"Do you work for DOD?"

Part-time. Next question.

"Do you work for CIA?"
No.

"Do you have any special knowledge on this subject?"
None for our purposes, and none needed.

"Because according to all the publicly released information from DOD and intel community that I'm aware of, Iran is not working on a nuke,"

Entirely peaceful purposes, of course. Of course, they'll maintain that right up until they test.

"and even if they were, have absolutely zero capability of deploying it to the USA."

Way to argue in the alternative! But the fact that they don't seem to have an ICBM ready to target the heartland doesn't mean we don't have to worry.

Were you CIA, by the way? I'd like to get my hands on one of those "No core - no war!" coins they triumphantly handed each other after the NIE said that Iran had discontinued their nuclear weapons program. (Fine print: Uranium enrichment may not be weapons-related, so that doesn't count.)

"So....what's the deal?"

Some of us are wondering that about you, no offense.

"2) Can you name even one single documented instance of Iran attacking the United States. Name one."

I suppose the embassy takeover won't count in your book? Either too small-scale, or we had it coming because of Mossadegh?

OK. Do you deny that Iranian proxy forces attack Americans? Don't give me the "only because we're sticking our nose where we shouldn't" - that's another debate. Do you deny that Iranians are actively engaged in causing the deaths of Americans?

Because if you do, then this argument will mean nothing to you:

They are committing acts of war against us right now, secure in the knowledge that the answer to the question, What are you going to do about it? Go to war? is, No.

So how will they behave when their challenge will be, "What are you going to do about it? Nuclear war?"

Posted by: JPS at January 11, 2013 01:24 PM (QhzoI)

214 I think we should be selling the world the weapons to fight each other with.


Obama tripled US foreign arms sales to an all-time-high.

http://tinyurl.com/8dlsqmj

NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER!

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 01:25 PM (BNacf)

215 ""Appeal to authority" isn't going to cut much ice with me, Andrew. And the question is not Iran attacking the US, it is Iran attacking Israel - to "wipe it off the map" in Dinnerjacket's quaint phrasing."

Is it not a legitimate question? Just because a commentator on Fox News swears that Iran wants to obliterate Israel doesn't make it so. Where is your proof? Show me proof that this is 100% without dispute the reality of the situation. My position is that this isn't the case.

Also, side note, I thank you for acknowledging that the issue is about Israel's security and not the USA. So that then raises the next question... why does this matter? Are you willing to sacrifice the USA for the sake of saving Israel?

"If you aren't willing to admit that a nuclear Iran poses a grave danger to the stability of the ME and to the survival of Israel, you're not interested in a conversation."

ME is already unstable. Of course them having a bomb would make things worse, I don't dispute that at all... but that's not the issue, the issue is WHY is this a concern for the USA?

The Sunni states do not want a nuclear Iran any more than Israel does. So tell me, why don't all of them get together and attack Iran? Why do we have to be the ones to absorb all this? We pay for the security, they profit from the oil and gas.

"You're going to get splinters fucking that strawman, slick."

Nice dodge. You didn't answer the question at all. You are the one that summed up my position as "fuck the jews". Not even "fuck Israel" but "fuck the jews." Instead of having a discussion, you just dismiss it all and call me a racist. Anybody that disagrees with our actions there is a racist... what a nice level-headed attitude.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:26 PM (HS3dy)

216 214 PA,

yes so he can gift our tech to islam.

Helluva guy.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:27 PM (LRFds)

217 Uranium enrichment may not be weapons-related

80% is the Rubicon. You can get splody at that level of enrichment. It won't be efficient, it'll be crude, but it can be made to go bang

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 01:28 PM (BNacf)

218 yes so he can gift our tech to islam.

The only good thing about that is we're like heroin dealers giving away enough to get you hooked. If they want those toys to keep working, then they'll have to deal.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 11, 2013 01:30 PM (BNacf)

219 215 Andrew,

Fucking israel is fucking "the Jews" I am tired of non-practicing caucazoids of jewish descent invoking "Jew."

Judaism is a faith not a race, just like Islam.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:30 PM (LRFds)

220 I'm gonna guess he's actually a freshmen civics student.

With a "Remember the USS Liberty!" poster on the wall.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 11, 2013 01:31 PM (zF6Iw)

221 218 PA,

Yeah maybe I get the feeling it will be a LOT like the gift of W-88 tech to China by Billy Jeff.

"Thanks" hey how'd China get better MIRV tech?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:31 PM (LRFds)

222 PurpAv, re uranium enrichment:

Oh, agreed. The other thing people lose sight of is this: All the 20% U-235 they're stockpiling, under the watchful eye of the IAEA, is fine because it's a practical impossibility to make a bomb from, right?

But it sure is easier and a lot faster to enrich from 20% to 85+% than from 0.7% to 85+%. See for example the late-stage introduction of thermal diffusion in the Manhattan Project. Useless by itself, but doubling the concentration of the feed made it possible to produce a bomb in time.

Posted by: JPS at January 11, 2013 01:32 PM (QhzoI)

223 Republicans and conservatives shouldn't treat the defense budget as sacrosanct but letting Obama and Hagel use this opportunity to redefine our defense posture is dangerous and will have repercussions far into the future.

That's OK. In five years when the next Rumsfeld tries to clean up with "the military you got," we'll know who to blame, right?

Posted by: BuddyPC at January 11, 2013 01:32 PM (jfUIE)

224 223 BuddyPC,

why clean up?

This nation needs to feel the pain of its infant ideas on power.

The 2d amendment will be an expensive way to safeguard the nation but by God a welcome one.

Leftoidism will not survive the full graveyards of the folly of trusting Cindy Sheehan to safeguard liberty.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:37 PM (LRFds)

225 Anybody that disagrees with our actions there is a racist... what a nice level-headed attitude.
Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:26 PM (HS3dy)

Dr. Ron Paul was prominently featuredin an Alex Jones' film effort called 'Endgame'. In it, Jones posited that a cabal of Jewish Bankers led by the Rothschild banking family, in collusion with the Bildersburger Group and a shadowy SMERSH-like organization dating back to the 18th Century called the Illumnati, are secretly plotting to reduce humanity to a few hundred million people, where they would be enslaved and ruled over by near-immortal, genetically enhanced elites.

Oh, and yeah: Illumnati scientists are even now conducting secret spider-goatDNA hybridization experiments. For some reason, that really stood out.

So what's your take on the whole spider-goat DNA hybridizationissue, Andrew? How about mass mind control via water fluoridation?

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 01:37 PM (vtiE6)

226 "I suppose the embassy takeover won't count in your book? Either too small-scale, or we had it coming because of Mossadegh?
OK. Do you deny that Iranian proxy forces attack Americans? Don't
give me the "only because we're sticking our nose where we shouldn't" -
that's another debate. Do you deny that Iranians are actively engaged
in causing the deaths of Americans?
"

Actually that's a good one to point out. I'll let you have that one. Outside Iran though, can you name one? Answer is no.

Without a doubt Iran has been involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan, no dispute, but that's a much more complicated argument. Soviet Union China engaged in that same type of behavior (cough Vietnam, Cuba, etc). Have they dropped any nukes on us? Iran is actively engaged in expanding its power, no dispute. But you also can't dismiss fact that to a large extent this is a reaction. I'm sure you've seen that map of the US bases in vicinity of Iran. Iran is surrounded. We have sanctions on them, etc. Religiously culurally they sympathize with the Afghans, etc. It's a simple concept called blowback.

And by that same argument they would probably say that we have actively engaged in a war against them. An economic war, but also a covert war where we try to assassinate their people from time to time either directly or by proxy through Israel or other nations at odds with them. Why did they attack the embassy in Tehran? Follow that history, it all started with us meddling in their affairs to begin with. Not saying it was right for them to attack. Reagan's response was perfect, release the hostages or else. But the point is our actions, like it or not, have natural consequences. If you mess with a wasp nest you're likely to get stung from time to time... I'm not here saying the Iranians aren't wasps... I'm saying why mess with them, leave it alone.

And again back to the root issue, where is the open threat or attack that justifies us violating their sovereignty? Show me where they have come out openly and declared war against the US. If there is enough evidence, then Congress should declare war against them and let's get this done. If here isn't enough evidence for a declaration of war then we shouldn't be messing with them.


Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:38 PM (HS3dy)

227 "Dr. Ron Paul was prominently featuredin an Alex Jones' film effort
called 'Endgame'. In it, Jones posited that a cabal of Jewish Bankers
led by the Rothschild banking family, in collusion with the
Bildersburger Group and a shadowy SMERSH-like organization dating back
to the 18th Century called the Illumnati, are secretly plotting to
reduce humanity to a few hundred million people, where they would be
enslaved and ruled over by near-immortal, genetically enhanced elites."

Ok, LOL, and what is your point? Alex Jones is a nut, why are we talking about Alex Jones? Why are we even talking about Ron Paul for that matter... I'm sure I can find all sorts of politicians who you love who have been featured in this or that video you would disagree with offering an opinion taken out of context.


Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:40 PM (HS3dy)

228 "Fucking israel is fucking "the Jews" I am tired of non-practicing caucazoids of jewish descent invoking "Jew." Judaism is a faith not a race, just like Islam."

Um, ok. What are you even talking about? Other than perhaps Vatican City, can you name one "christian" country on the whole planet?

There are more Jews, ethic and religious, in the USA than in Israel.

How is expecting Israel - the country - to pay for its own defense a worldwide offense against any and all jews, ethnic, religious, or whatever...?

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:44 PM (HS3dy)

229 Why are we even talking about Ron Paul for that matter... I'm sure I can find all sorts of politicians who you love who have been featured in this or that video you would disagree with offering an opinion taken out of context.
Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 01:40 PM (HS3dy)

No weaseling, please. You've expressed virtually the same views on every issue as those expressed by Ron Paul, now-retired Republican Congressman from Texas who has, at various times during his political career, identified himself (and ran as) a Libertarian candidate. Until recently, Paul was the face and voice of libertarian ideas across the country. You can't disavow him now. He's yours forever.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 01:45 PM (vtiE6)

230 228 Andrew,

You Luap Nor retards dodgy games.

Israel is a Jewish state, your perfectly fine actor Iran is an overt totalitarian theocracy.

One is 'evil" the other "good" in both our eyes.

You side with the guys who torched our embassy.

Have a day.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:46 PM (LRFds)

231 229 troyriser,

the stink in my nose says it is Paul shit.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 01:46 PM (LRFds)

232
How is expecting Israel - the country - to pay for its own defense a worldwide offense against any and all jews, ethnic, religious, or whatever...?


Because, mark my words. Any time you comtemplate any cut whatsoever, the screams can only be that people will die. Spending cuts = murdered children. It is the thin end of the wedge, so it must be that there is no other way to cut spending save to liquidate innocent people. Children, Jews, genocide, whatever, point is, cuts =kill.

Try it. Suggest any spending what so ever should be cut, and I garauntee the response will be that you are trying to kill someone. Cutfood stamps= kill blacks. Cut Planned Parenthood = kill women. Cutthe drug war= kill children. Cut defense = kill Jews. Cut the National Endowment for the Arts = kill Big Bird.

Because that is eleventy. That's as extreme as the rhetoric gets, so that's where they start.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 01:54 PM (TULs6)

233
Why are we even talking about Ron Paul for that matter

Because in these parts, it's the equivalent of the leftists invoking the dread Kochtopus.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 01:55 PM (TULs6)

234 Because in these parts, it's the equivalent of the leftists invoking the dread Kochtopus.
Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 01:55 PM (TULs6)

Neither Andrew or yourself even bother to contest the point--buttressed by overwhelming evidence--that the leading spokesman for libertarian ideas is fucking batshit crazy, yet libertarians to a man (and woman) don't understand why libertarians are treated like slow children by just about everyone who isn't a libertarian.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 02:00 PM (vtiE6)

235 234 Troyriser,

hey I am a small (l) libertarian who wants the people weaned off the superstate who refuses to identify with "libertarian" because of the Paultards....

thinly disguised Neo ns are not my buddies.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 02:04 PM (LRFds)

236 hey I am a small (l) libertarian who wants the people weaned off the superstate who refuses to identify with "libertarian" because of the Paultards....thinly disguised Neo ns are not my buddies.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 02:04 PM (LRFds)

As I've written previously on this thread, I've got nothing against either little 'l' or big 'L' libertarians. I do have issues with the descendents of the Know Nothings and the paranoid, bigoted America Firster-types who have taken over the libertarianlabel and are now trying desperately to do the same to the word 'Republican'. They don't like that their ideas are considered fringe, so they attempt to assume a more mainstream veneer. They give themselves away whenever they start talking about Jews or Israel or banks. Or water fluoridation as mind control. Or secret government radio waves. Or spider-goat DNA hybridization experiments.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 02:10 PM (vtiE6)

237
So what's your take on the whole spider-goat DNA hybridizationissue, Andrew? How about mass mind control via water fluoridation?

Are you making spider-goats out to be some crazy conspiracy theory? You don't know about those? Spider-goats are real man.

tinyurl.com/7rnn9xy

The modifiedgoats produce milk that contains silkproteins that can be used to make bullet proof vests.

I am pro-spidergoat.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:11 PM (TULs6)

238 236 Troy Risder,

the potheads who infiltrated the Libertarian party are the same ones trying to hijack the Tea party....

"yeah man as long as weed is legal who cares about the rest?"

Who indeed stoners who indeed?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 02:17 PM (LRFds)

239 I am pro-spidergoat.
Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:11 PM (TULs6)

Beware their steely coils of death: Nyaaah.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 02:18 PM (vtiE6)

240
Neither Andrew or yourself even bother to contest the point--buttressed by overwhelming evidence--that the leading spokesman for libertarian ideas is fucking batshit crazy, yet libertarians to a man (and woman) don't understand why libertarians are treated like slow children by just about everyone who isn't a libertarian.

I don't, but what do you mean by crazy? I contend that actually wanting to cut a trillion dollars out of the budget and save us from the financial apocalypse is pretty much legitimate crazytalk in this day and age.

Now some people may say nuking the US economy and destroying the dollar is crazy. But those people are crazy.

All the responsible, smart, realistic people are about kicking the can down the road until it falls off a cliff.

We are absolutely outside the norm. Doesn't make us wrong.

I mean, you can point out all the ways Ron Paul is crazy.... this trillion dollar coin bullshit isn't crazy? 16,500,000,000,000 in debt isn't crazy? Women not getting pregnant from legitimate rape isn't crazy? Thinking you can balance the 16T budget with cuts to PBS isn't fucking bug-eyed crazy?

So no, I don't deny that some of Paul's views can arguably be portrayed as crazy. It is rather silly to pretend like he's the only one. We're all crazy now.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:22 PM (TULs6)

241
Beware their steely coils of death: Nyaaah.

Again... is that a denial that spider-goats exist? Or just snark?

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:24 PM (TULs6)

242
You can mock some people for being anti-spider goat. It strikes me as a rather pedestrian reactionary response to new technology.

I don't agree with it (spider-goats are awesome) but if being anti-spider-goat is crazy, is being anti-cloning crazy too? You'll find plenty of religious right conservatives I bet who are opposed to screwing with gods creation and making abominable spider-goats.


Also, the Earth is 6000 years old. Not crazy?

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:28 PM (TULs6)

243 242 Entropy,

Less harmful a crazy than "Iran having nukes is great" 6,000 year is.

//Yoda

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 02:29 PM (LRFds)

244
The real problem here isn't that libertarians have some crazies.

It's that you've gone into denial and like to pretend your group doesn't. Every group has crazies.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:30 PM (TULs6)

245
Less harmful a crazy than "Iran having nukes is great" 6,000 year is.

Oh right. Like the harmlessness of it ever stopped you from mocking silver dimes.

Also, really, you can't fairly call the people who are against intervention in Iran crazy. You can disagree with them, it may be wrong, but it is not a legitimately 'crazy' viewpoint unless you just like to ad-hominem everyone who disagrees with you as lacking any reason. Give me a break. Thinking Iran can be contained may be wrong, but it's not an outright irrational viewpoint.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:33 PM (TULs6)

246 Again... is that a denial that spider-goats exist? Or just snark?
Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:24 PM (TULs6)

Snark. I'm charmed by the idea of spider-goat hybrids. And that '6,000 year-old earth' business? Crazy? Maybe, especially since such a belief chooses to ignore a wealth of unbiased, empirical knowledge proving otherwise. But I'm also a guy who believes a young Jewish Rabbi from anobscure corner of the Roman Empire is the literal Son Of God.

That said, you're right: libertarians have some solid ideas. At least an argument can be made for most of them. But libertarian ideas are not the problem here. The problem is the rabid antisemitism. The problem is the head-in-the-sand isolationism that nearly lost WWII for us. The problem is the 'prison planet' mentality. The problem is the Alex Jones-type conspiracy-minded paranoia that runs rampant seemingly whenever libertarians congregate.

Those are serious problems. In my opinion, should serious libertarians address and correct those problems, then libertarians might be taken moreseriously.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 02:37 PM (vtiE6)

247
Let's be frank. Republicans 'own' it, when it comes to people who reject the entire body of scientific study in the fields of geology, archaeology, astronomy, radiology, and a dozen others. Hows that for 'know-nothings'?

You courted those nutters and you own them, if we apply equal standards.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:39 PM (TULs6)

248
Those are serious problems. In my opinion, should serious libertarians address and correct those problems, then libertarians might be taken moreseriously.

Those problems are not correctable, any more than you can correct the Todd Akins of the republican party. You'restuck with 'em.

Because the 'problem' you are talking about - for better or worse - is PEOPLE. You cannot 'correct' people problemsunless you mean to just kill them all.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:42 PM (TULs6)

249 245 entropy,

Dude it's me....you read my views on the coin trick?

I am against fiat currency as currently rendered and I manage it without Paul's anti-semitism or retarded ignoring of the pain.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 02:50 PM (LRFds)

250 Because the 'problem' you are talking about - for better or worse - is PEOPLE. You cannot 'correct' people problemsunless you mean to just kill them all.
Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 02:42 PM (TULs6)

A political movement can have crazy people within its ranks and remain viable with the American democratic/electoral process. It cannot, however, put those same crazy people in charge of its movementand expect widespread, mainstreamacceptance of its ideas. And please don't bring up German Nazis and Russian Bolsheviks as a counterargument. We're neither Germany nor Russia.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 02:53 PM (vtiE6)

251
Here's what I would like. I would like to know what we're actually talking about, instead of being general and vague about it.

Can I get some specific quotes that demonstrate Ron Paul is antisemitic and crazy?

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:00 PM (TULs6)

252
Because when I listen to Ron Paul, I hear the only guy in the whole field who is making sense on fiscal issues. I hear him espouse libertarianism, which is very individualistic and therefor, diametrically opposed to racism of any kind.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:03 PM (TULs6)

253 Entropy Luap Nor's publishing history and ease of coexistence in personal finance matters with anti-semites is well documented....

Crazy what you're selling?

I got plenty of my own don't need his.

FYNQ

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 03:04 PM (LRFds)

254
Luap Nor's publishing history and ease of coexistence in personal finance matters with anti-semites is well documented....

Then it should not be hard to cite some of the quotes that bother you specifically.

As for the finance issue - I really don't care about that. Why should he give racists their money back? More power to him if he dupes racists out of their money and uses it to promote libertarianism instead.

Money is money. It is fungible. A dollar bill cannot be morally tainted on account of a previous owner.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:08 PM (TULs6)

255 254 Entroopy,

do your own fucking research I have played this game every four years.

Paul is a nutball anti-semite.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 11, 2013 03:11 PM (LRFds)

256 Can I get some specific quotes that demonstrate Ron Paul is antisemitic and crazy?
Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:00 PM (TULs6)

This is tiresome, and happens whenever a Ron Paul-loving libertarian wants to shut down the argument. You have ready access to the Internet, yes? You should already know about Paul's relationship with Willis Carto of Spotlight magazine (and later website), yes? Look up Willis Carto, for starters. Carto was one of the founders of the Holocaust Denial 'movement' (for lack of a better word). And the crazy aspects? They kind of overlap with the above, but sure, google 'Ron Paul water fluoridation', for starters. Or, for that matter, google 'Ron Paul batshit crazy'. There are plenty of references, a mountain of evidence.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 03:13 PM (vtiE6)

257
do your own fucking research I have played this game every four years.

Even if I look up quotes, I do not know which quotes you are bothered by. I find lots and lots of stuff that accuses him of being antisemitic because he wants to end foreign aid across the board, or racist because he calls people who riot animals. Is that what bothers you?

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:14 PM (TULs6)

258 Money is money. It is fungible. A dollar bill cannot be morally tainted on account of a previous owner.
Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:08 PM (TULs6)

Now you're weaseling. Willis Carto,Ron Paul'sadvertiser and sponsor at one time,is no small-time bigot. He's major league in white supremacist circles, and so is Don Black, founder of Stormfront website and another big-time Paul supporter.

If you can't connect the dots, then I don't know what to tell you.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 03:17 PM (vtiE6)

259
This is tiresome, and happens whenever a Ron Paul-loving libertarian wants to shut down the argument.

Why the hell should asking for citation shut down the argument??? That's a silly thought.

google 'Ron Paul water fluoridation'

OK, I googled water fluoridation.

"The federal government should have
zero...nothing to do with the promotion of fluoridation unless its on a military
base...and hopefully there they would do the right thing. So no, federal
fluoride promotion shouldn't exist, they shouldn't be telling you or anyone else
what should happen because even though it was well intended at the time--I
remember that I thought it was a bad principle because in a way it was massive
treatment--and at the time everybody accepted the idea that fluoride was great
and that you would never get a cavity and there was no downside, now there is a
big question, that's why you don't want government doing these kinds of things.
You or I should decide, someone should give us bottled water with fluoride, or
we should have the ability to buy water with fluoride, but we should not have
the federal government promoting fluoridation...sometimes their right, most of
the time their wrong. They shouldn't have the authority to do this. Especially
with the information out there now about fluoride, I would do my best to stop
federal involvement with state and local fluoride decisions."


I agree with him! The feds shouldn't be doing it, it is reserved for the states. Am I crazy??

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:19 PM (TULs6)

260 Entropy, the point of argument is to persuade. It's clear to me that you're going to continue to willfully ignore Paul's personal and professional relationships with the likes of Willis Carto, a despicable piece of Jew-hating shit no respectable person would claim as a friend. You're also going to continue to ignore Paul's relationship with political opportunist and paranoid conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. You're also going to continue to ignore Paul's newsletters, particularly the one beginning, 'The Animals Are Coming!', where the 'Animals' are Black Americans. And so on. That's what I mean by 'tiresome'. Nothing I say or write, no evidence I offer, will pop your little bubble, so what's the point?

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 03:25 PM (vtiE6)

261
If you can't connect the dots, then I don't know what to tell you.

Perhaps I connect the dots in a different way. Are they pushing for a law to kill all the blacks? Think that's what Paul is about??

Do you think the Miss Black America pagent should be illegal? I don't. Should could there be a Miss White America?

I do not support segregation, such as that espoused by for instance, the New Black Panther party. But so long as the segregation isn't being forced, people have the right to segregate themselves voluntarily, and I don't begrudge the New Black Panthers the ability to have white-excluding organizations.

But if that goes for the New Black Panthers, the reality is that the white idiot groups should be able to voluntarily segregate themselves too.

Good fences make good neighbors. I think Paul attracts the white sepremacist support that he does because he is willing the acknowledge that people have the right to do these kinds of things. Paul is consistent with libertarian views in that he is against FORCED integration, the same as he should be against FORCED segregation. Honestly, I think that's why they give him money. He's probably the only guy stupid/brave enough to support their right to hold things along the lines of a Miss White America pagent. He doesn't shun and ostracize them just for their wicked viewpoints (consistent with freedom of thought, including the freedom to be wrong), which is what most everyone would demand be done - and what is politically expedient - but IMO, not the right answer.

Pity the New Black Panthers don't see that they're actuallyon the same side as Stormfront, and give him money also.

Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:27 PM (TULs6)

262 Posted by: Entropy at January 11, 2013 03:27 PM (TULs6)

Willis Carto, pal. Counting him as one of your circle makes you a member of his. Enjoy the company.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 03:43 PM (vtiE6)

263 "The rest of the world can see coming the Pentagon downsizing — and the inevitable, commensurate decline of U.S. power."

Krauthammer's view that U.S. power is tied to domestic military spending is an outdated one. The United States is uniquely and inseparably involved in the cultural and economic lives of hundreds of millions of people. From the music and film industries to our 169 embassies around the world to the nearly 3,000 foreign correspondents based in our country, our power is projected far and wide. Trimming government spending, including spending on the military, will not change that.


Posted by: Jordan at January 11, 2013 03:46 PM (Hz1zc)

264 Trimming government spending, including spending on the military, will not change that.
Posted by: Jordan at January 11, 2013 03:46 PM (Hz1zc)

Yes, it will. Drastically.

Posted by: troyriser at January 11, 2013 04:13 PM (vtiE6)

265 "You can't disavow him now. He's yours forever."

Don't want to disavow him, I just don't want you to change the subject. Do we want to talk about the issue or one man? I like Paul, happy to discuss him if you want to have that conversation, but that's a DIFFERENT conversation. I do not think the way I do about Israel because of Paul, I think the way I do about Israel because of the time I've spent in the mid east. My thoughts are my own.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 05:54 PM (HS3dy)

266 "Israel is a Jewish state, your perfectly fine actor Iran is an overt totalitarian theocracy. One is 'evil" the other "good" in both our eyes. You side with the guys who torched our embassy. Have a day."

Did I say Iran was a perfectly fine actor? How did I side with them at all? My position is that we should butt out. Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself. They have enough nukes to irradiate the entire middle east, and enough missiles and planes to deploy them... so why are we having this conversation.

If Israel sees Iran as a threat, then they should attack them and THEY should deal with the COST and the CONSEQUENCES.

I am not choosing sides any more than I am in Brazil's next presidential election. Don't care. It is their issue.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 05:57 PM (HS3dy)

267 "But libertarian ideas are not the problem here. The problem is the rabid
antisemitism. The problem is the head-in-the-sand isolationism that
nearly lost WWII for us."

What rabid antisemitism? Again, what are you talking about? Can Israel not defend herself? Why is letting Israel defend herself and define her own future a anti-semitic thing? Mind blowing.

Isolationism? Again, you don't understand the meaning of the word. It is so incredibly frustrating. North Korea, Iran, China, even Japan, etc, these are isolationist countries! Isolationism is locking down and not letting anything in. Non-interventionism has nothing to do with this, it's the complete opposite mindset. Calling us hippies would be more accurate. We want to leave others alone politically and militarily, but while doing so, we want to be friends and have OPEN relations. OPEN trade, no tariffs, no taxes, no impositions of any kind.

The USA by imposing sanctions on Iran is acting in an isolationist manner! This is isolationism. Economically punishing the average Iranian because of something their president said on TV while trying to stir up trouble.

Sanctions against North Korea backing them into a corner, this is isolationism!

You want to talk about WW2? What do you think STARTED WW2, or at least our involvement in it? Yes, Japan attacked. Why did they attack, because we were engaging in economic war against them long before a single shot was fired. This is well documented. The oil embargo among other acts of aggression that started with US. Read the link I included. Well documented fact at this point that Japan was frankly provoked. Doesn't change the fact that they did attack first, but it sheds a bit of light on some things. A very good argument that we didn't need to join WW2 at all. Japan and rest of Asia would have stayed out. Yes, still a problem for Europe, but... drum roll.... so what. How many men did we lose again? Talking about WW2 is just academics at this point of course, we weren't there, but it's interesting. Very easy to say we did the right thing, after all, Hitler was as evil as evil gets. But then again, wasn't Stalin just as bad? And lets not forget Mao! So we sided with two bad guys over another bad guy. End result, 60 million dead, including about half a million of our own men. Hmm. And in the wake of this we created the Soviet Union, which killed how many more tens of million, and also created Mao, who killed how many tens of millions, not to mention the expansion of socialism into how many countries, and how many countless millions died in all those places?

A very strong and perfectly sane argument can be made that we had no business joining WW2, it was a European problem and that in the grand scheme of things we didn't actually make things better, and by making things better I mean decreasing the amount of evil in the world.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 06:19 PM (HS3dy)

268 troy, reading these comments still trying to figure out what Ron Paul has to do with anything? Ron Paul promotes a lot of libertarian ideals, ok, great... would you like to discuss the current issue or Ron Paul? Whether Ron Paul is or isn't this or that has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Nothing. He can be a sexist, a racist, a homophobe, even an anti-semite, ok, great, what does that have to do with the issue. Do oranges start becoming a nasty foul fruit because some guy you don't agree with on a particular issue happens to like them?

I don't think Paul is an anti-semite at all, but even if he were, EVEN IF HE WERE, does that mean he's automatically wrong to suggest that the US shouldn't be intervening around the world? Doesn't change the FACT, well established FACT, that his predictions with Iraq and Afghanistan have been 100% spot on true. Doesn't change the FACT that his predictions with the housing bubble and subprime lending were 100% spot on true. His whole career was one of him saying shit, people calling him crazy, and then it came true.

Maybe he is an anti-semite. I don't know him personally. If he is, I agree to disagree with him on that issue. Doesn't make him wrong about everything else. I grew up hearing my grandparents use the N-word religiously. Were they prejudiced against blacks, absolutely,
without a doubt. But they were also right about a lot of stuff. Not going to dismiss everything they ever said because of this one thing. Samuel Jackson, among some other black actors, are frequently making very racist remarks against blacks. I still think he's funny as hell in movies, I don't care if he is a biggot.

Posted by: Andrew at January 11, 2013 06:33 PM (HS3dy)

269 It's the perfect storm of idiocy.
-
Not yet.

Posted by: Future President Joe Biden at January 12, 2013 12:27 AM (cJzRe)

270 8 The problem is that O will cut unthinkingly, so worthy programs will be cut, but unworthy ones (diversity, outreach, green energy) will remain, thus magnifying the damage to the important bits of the military.
-
That's true.

But it's also bipartisan. The military doesn't perform the basic task of securing the border.

Posted by: Chromoly Man at January 12, 2013 12:30 AM (cJzRe)






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