Is That A Platinum Coin In Your Pocket Or Are You Just Glad To See Me?

So, we're talking Trillion Dollar Coins, today.

Which, I can get into. I love bullion coins. Especially the ones you drop into a mug of hot water and they come out all chicken brothy.

Did you guys know that the U.S. Mint already sells Platinum bullion coins? It's true. I looked it up and everything.

The American Eagle Platinum bullion coins are uncirculated and come in one troy ounce (31 grams or so), one-half ounce, one-quarter ounce and one-tenth ounce weights. They are denominated in $100 (ounce), $50 (half-oz), $25 (guarter-oz) and $10 (one-tenth oz). They are not sold directly by the Mint to the public, but are instead sold to "Authorized Purchasers" (i.e. coin dealers and the like) who then market them for sale.

On the other hand, a Numismatic proof version of the platinum coin is offered to the public and can be purchased directly from the Mint. The current price of a $100 denominated one-ounce platinum Eagle is $1892.00.

The current spot price of platinum is $1627.00 an oz (as I type this...the price is set in a 24 hour market and is constantly in flux). The Gov't has a handy chart which they use to set the retail price of the gold and platinum proof coins they offer. For platinum, it basically guarantees a $250-350 profit/price over spot for the Mint on every proof coin they sell directly to the public.

So, want to know more? Too bad, I'm putting ya some more knowledge anyway. It's under the fold.

Now denominations on these coins are pretty meaningless. No one spends American Eagle bullion coins as denominated currency (although they could at a huge loss, I suppose). But, I wondered, what would it take in platinum resources for a One Trillion denominated bullion coin to remain at denominated parity with an existing one ounce, $100 denominated bullion coin? In other words, how many ounces of platinum would it take to make a face value One Trillion denominated coin that was valued like Mint values the already existing $100 per one ounce coin?

Well a One Trillion dollar coin is denominated at 10,000,000,000 times the value of a $100 one ounce coin, so you would need 10,000,000,000 troy ounces of platinum instead of one. That sounds like a lot. So I broke it down: There are 14.583 troy ounces in a pound. Divide 10,000,000,000 by 14.583 and you would need a coin that weighed approximately 685,730,959 pounds in order to preserve the same intrinsic value to denomination ratios in currently existing Mint platinum bullion coins. You're gonna need some deep and well-lined pockets to carry that thing around.

This figure is artificially high because the Mint sets a greatly discounted value on the platinum bullion denominations that essentially means that the denomination of one ounce of platinum at $100 is only 1/16 of what an ounce actually goes for in the precious metals market right now. If the Mint were to value one ounce of platinum at spot ($1600), your pockets would catch a break. You would then only need a coin that weighed 42,858,122 poundsto become your Trillion Dollar Baby.

Now, according to the numbers I could find, approximately 180 tons of platinum are mined each year. 180 x 2000 lbs= 360,000 pounds. So to make your full-value One Trillion coin, you would need all the platinum that will be mined on earth for the next 119 years. (Assuming current production rates stay the same, and reserves exist to support it. I couldn't find a good world reserve figure in the 30 seconds I spent Googling for it.) It is my understanding that the Moon and the Asteroid belt are stinking with platinum though, so if Obama does mint this thing, he'll finally have a reason (besides Muslim outreach) to support NASA's mission.

That's me...always seeing the silver lining in the platinum cloud. Anyway, just a little perspective on the platinum Trillion dollar coin thing.

In other news, I prefer my platinum to come in Blonde. So here is the only good thing to ever come out of New Jersey, Debbie Harry, singing a song off Blondie's Platinum Album (see what I did there?) "Parallel Lines."

C'mon...you didn't think I'd let you go unrewarded for making it through the math stuff, did you?



Posted by: Jack M. at 02:37 PM



Comments

1 This caller to Limbaugh right now is tearing me up.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 02:48 PM (jucos)

2 Everyone needs to hear what this S.E.A.L. said.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 02:49 PM (jucos)

3 TDC baby!

Posted by: Joe Biden at January 10, 2013 02:50 PM (msPO3)

4 Heard the SEAL too. Broke my heart.

Posted by: Lady in Black at January 10, 2013 02:50 PM (WNYU4)

5 Which would you rather have, 'all the platinum that will be mined on earth for the next 119 years', or my personal promise and guarantee that this coin is worth one trillion dollars?

That's what I thought. Here you go...

Posted by: Your Barack And Savior at January 10, 2013 02:51 PM (FcR7P)

6 JackM!!! Long time, no see!

That was some epic poetry.

Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 02:51 PM (GQ8sn)

7 AoSHQ - voted Smartest Math Blog of 2012.

Posted by: RWC at January 10, 2013 02:52 PM (fWAjv)

8 I am an ass for going off topic but g-d damn where do we find these guys..... Sorry Jack M. I am going to read the content and see if I can say something sentient.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 02:52 PM (jucos)

9 Math is hard.

If I were the NRA, I would totally get on board this whole gun safety thing Sloe Joe is cooking up. I would point out that the NRA and its member have stood 'to promote safe, responsible, and competent use of firearms.' for 140 years. There is no other organization in the US that has as much experience promoting gun safety than the NRA. We will surely love to take the lead on the gun safety inititaitves of the US government.

Or something.

Posted by: CUS at January 10, 2013 02:53 PM (84pE9)

10
People who focus on the trillion dollar coin being platinum or who try to equate a commodity price to the value of the coin are missing the point.

Posted by: jwest at January 10, 2013 02:54 PM (ZDsRL)

11 Debra Harry, the first of the look good singers who depended on hot instead of music. MTV ruined the rock n roll star.

Posted by: Vic at January 10, 2013 02:54 PM (53z96)

12 You guys are still missing the whole point. The gov't can print any denomination they want on it. They already have one ounce, 1/2 ounce and 1/4 ounce platinum (and gold) coins with face values that aren't relative to their weights.

The real question that exposes the lunacy is why stop at 1 trillion? Why not a $37 trillion coin, wiping out our national debt? 100 trillion to guarantee health care?

Because it's an accounting gimmick. The fact that this is even being discussed seriously shows how fucked we all truly are.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at January 10, 2013 02:56 PM (llljM)

13 I think it was heroin that ruined Deborah Harry.

Posted by: CUS at January 10, 2013 02:56 PM (84pE9)

14 There are 14.583 troy ounces in a pound. Divide 10,000,000,000 by 14.583 and you would need a coin that weighed approximately 685,730,959 pounds in order to preserve the same intrinsic value to denomination ratios in currently existing Mint platinum bullion coins.


Second look at giant stone discs with a hole in the middle?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 10, 2013 02:56 PM (QKKT0)

15 So here is the only good thing to ever come out of New Jersey, Debbie Harry

Ali Larter is also from NJ.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 10, 2013 02:56 PM (ryAWr)

16 I talked about this last night. I found a Springfield M1903 medallion in my junk drawer last night. Real nice lookin'. I deemed it worth 1 trillion dollars. It is of no significance how I came to this figure. I just deemed it so. Now.... I just have to figure out how I can spend it.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 02:57 PM (jucos)

17 Platinum coins!


I miss Monty's Doooooom posts. They were so much more cheerful.


I'm just gonna go with this one because I'm lazy - http://youtu.be/MUsxrE6e1z8

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 02:57 PM (VtjlW)

18 You would then only need a coin that weighed 42,858,122 pounds
---
So that would be about 21,400 tons
or approximately the weight of the USS Enterprise (CV-6) of WWII fame

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at January 10, 2013 02:59 PM (SO2Q8)

19 Just make the 1 trillion bill. as i said earlier, on a bar napkin. same thing already in your billfold.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 10, 2013 02:59 PM (ma1sf)

20
That's a pantload of math.

Posted by: Al Roker at January 10, 2013 02:59 PM (p/cQy)

21 Platinum Blonde you mean...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4SOnBDe7qs

Posted by: mitchel44 at January 10, 2013 03:00 PM (+WU+W)

22 Now imagine if Joe Isuzu tried to sell you a $1 trillion coin.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:00 PM (KnIgz)

23 Cicero, sudden resurgence of interest in Yap Island Currency.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:01 PM (KnIgz)

24 That's a pantload of math. - Posted by: Al Roker

And an AoS meme is born.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 03:01 PM (evdj2)

25 I think the trillion note should be Phallic shaped, lord knows it will be a screwing...

Posted by: CSMBigBird at January 10, 2013 03:01 PM (jsWA8)

26 aside from the trillion coin shenanigans, can we just agree that the continuing resolution and sequester are better negotiating opportunities

i guess you could say the debt ceiling gives more leverage because the consequences are more severe, buuut...that's also why i was never freaking out over it in 2011 like some were. both parties' leadership know it has to ultimately go up, and like the fiscal cliff it'll happen even over select House Republicans' objections. i'm not sure how much leverage you really get when both sides acknowledge this.

Posted by: JDP at January 10, 2013 03:01 PM (60GaT)

27
"The real question that exposes the lunacy is why stop at 1 trillion? Why not a $37 trillion coin, wiping out our national debt? 100 trillion to guarantee health care?"

If the Obama administration decides to back 50 or 100 trillion in coins with the real assets of offshore mineral rights, oil sands and natural gas on federal lands, then pay off the national debt, all consumer debt and all mortgages, republicans wouldn't have to worry about running any candidates for office for the next few generations.

Posted by: jwest at January 10, 2013 03:01 PM (ZDsRL)

28 Second look at giant stone discs with a hole in the middle?

Ridiculous. Cowry shells are what the cool people use.

Posted by: pep at January 10, 2013 03:01 PM (YXmuI)

29 Hell, platinum on the moon?
Just carve Ogabe's face right on that sucker..
That's one damn fine Trillion Dollar Coin right there.

Posted by: Silver Dimes at January 10, 2013 03:01 PM (I7O5y)

30 How many seashells for a hamburger today?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:02 PM (KnIgz)

31 19 Just make the 1 trillion bill. as i said earlier, on a bar napkin. same thing already in your billfold.
Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 10, 2013 02:59 PM (ma1sf)

I think TFG should just pinky-swear that we have the money. No muss, no fuss.

Posted by: RWC at January 10, 2013 03:02 PM (fWAjv)

32 Why don't we hock the Statue of Liberty. We could make a ton of cash, and avoid false advertising lawsuits.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 10, 2013 03:02 PM (0q2P7)

33 Just make the 1 trillion bill. as i said earlier, on a bar napkin. same thing already in your billfold.
Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 10, 2013 02:59 PM (ma1sf)
-----------------------------------------------------
Why stop there? As someone said above. Just make a coin denominated at 100 Trillion and BOOM. Healthcare is taken care of. I wonder what the Roman Blogs topics were as Odoacer was overunning them from the north...

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 03:03 PM (jucos)

34 Ridiculous. Cowry shells are what the cool people use.

And our Kwaanza stockings were full of them!

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ (BAN ALL THE THINGS!) at January 10, 2013 03:03 PM (ZKzrr)

35
The trillion dollar coin fiasco is just more proof this universe is just a computer simulation. Stuff this crazy doesn't happen in the real world.


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 10, 2013 03:04 PM (kdS6q)

36 aside from the trillion coin shenanigans, can we just agree that the continuing resolution and sequester are better negotiating opportunities

I don't agree. The debt ceiling is our only leverage. The CR involves shutting down the government and neither party has the balls for that. Not lifting the debt ceiling, or lifting it a small amount each time in exchange for concessions, just involves making choices on what's important.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 03:04 PM (evdj2)

37 Which is to say that seven billion dollars a day in revenue will fund a lot of government.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 03:06 PM (evdj2)

38 We should take this kindergarten idea seriously?


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 03:06 PM (bb5+k)

39
For christ's sake, I've never seen anyone empty a room faster than Jack.

Posted by: jwest at January 10, 2013 03:07 PM (ZDsRL)

40 The other advantage of the debt ceiling over using CR's to cut spending is that the CR needs an affirmative action; a passed and signed bill. Cutting spending via the debt ceiling involves doing nothing.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 03:08 PM (evdj2)

41 Now imagine if Joe Isuzu tried to sell you a $1 trillion coin.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:00 PM (KnIgz)




Joe Isuzu is more credible than Barry

Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 10, 2013 03:08 PM (1Jaio)

42 I wonder what the Roman Blogs topics were as Odoacer was overunning them from the north...
Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 03:03 PM (jucos)


Gladii Control

High Capacity Plumbata

Posted by: RWC at January 10, 2013 03:08 PM (fWAjv)

43 If I never see, hear or read the words 'platinum coin' again, it'll be too soon.

Posted by: Tami at January 10, 2013 03:09 PM (X6akg)

44 We should take this kindergarten idea seriously?


The people who came up with this idea are your intellectual and social betters. You must not question them. Return to your insignificant daily activities, citizen.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 10, 2013 03:10 PM (QKKT0)

45
I have the same feeling about this $1T coin as I did about the EU thingy when that started.

It. Is. A. Big. Mistake.

And there will be all sorts of unintended consequences from it that will all be bad. You can't just ignore/violate economic laws and expect anything else to happen.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 03:10 PM (yiIja)

46 So what would be biggest, the $1 trillion platinum coin, the Giant Stay Puft marshmallow man, or the giant Twinkie that would be all the ghost juju from "Ghostbusters"?

Posted by: MrCaniac at January 10, 2013 03:10 PM (Zd/NW)

47 Gah. Someone brought in a tin of butter cookies.


Must. Not. Shove. Face. In. Tin.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 03:10 PM (VtjlW)

48 #32 is right! Copper is very valuable now we could melt it down....

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at January 10, 2013 03:10 PM (9+ccr)

49
I will gladly pay you a trillion dollar coin on Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Posted by: J. Wellington Wimpy at January 10, 2013 03:11 PM (p/cQy)

50 OK, cansomeone check my math
42,858,122 pounds * 453.592 grams/pound = 19,440,114,989 grams
the density of platinum is (as we all know) 21.45 G/CM^3
so that much platinum would occupy 906,299,067 cubic CM
and the cube root of that is 968 CM, so you'd need a cube of pure platinum 968 CM on a side (if you like cube shaped coins)
That'd also be 9.68 Meters per side, or a platinum cube, 32 feet by 32 feet by 32 feet...the size of a small house

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at January 10, 2013 03:11 PM (SO2Q8)

51 shutting down the government over a budget deadlock is a lot more doable than refusing to raise the debt ceiling. though i'd understand R's being wary of the PR fight that'd ensue.

Posted by: JDP at January 10, 2013 03:11 PM (60GaT)

52 >>>I wonder what the Roman Blogs topics were as Odoacer was overunning them from the north...

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 03:03 PM (jucos)





>>>Gladii Control



>>>High Capacity Plumbata

Assault Funda Ban

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 10, 2013 03:11 PM (0q2P7)

53 Posted by: Tami at January 10, 2013 03:09 PM (X6akg)

Agreed. Much as I generally like Jack M's posts, my first thought was "Oh G-d, not again!"

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 03:12 PM (wbeNt)

54 The debt ceiling should never be raised. It's high enough as it is. It's a fraud as the government has no intention of paying it down, or even keeping it where it is. Sure, they'll pay off old debt with new debt, but that can only go on for so long.

No ceiling raise would put us on a cash-only basis.

Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 03:12 PM (AH6ig)

55 OT But I sense a business opportunity here. Government selling off ammo cans and containers.
http://www.recycleinme.com/rim-govliquid/selloffer-34699.aspx

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:12 PM (KnIgz)

56 Lets all just be thankful we were spares Stevie Nicks.

Posted by: AndrewsDad at January 10, 2013 03:12 PM (C2//T)

57 I think you're gonna need a bigger boat.

Posted by: Turbo Timmy at January 10, 2013 03:13 PM (mjR67)

58 Now denominations on these coins are pretty meaningless. No one spends American Eagle bullion coins as denominated currency (although they could at a huge loss, I suppose).

-------

Well, there was that one guy in Nevada last year who got in trouble for paying his employees in Gold Eagles and taking the withholding based on their face value...

Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at January 10, 2013 03:13 PM (FzhYM)

59 We should, at most, offer to raise the debt ceiling half of what is projected for this years deficit. Barry promised to cut the deficit in half, and we'd just be helping him keep his promise.

At least, that's what we should say, loudly and daily.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 03:14 PM (evdj2)

60 Oooh, oooh, I have an idea.

Obama should just go on Russian, British, Australian, Saudi, and any other TV broadcast he can. He can pretend he's giving a speech and then BAM, he holds up a sign that says, "If you can read this, you owe me a dollar."

It's brilliant! All those foreign people lurve them some Obama. They might actually send money.

In the meantime, it's the same thing as the platinum coin stupidity. It demands others (the world market) place value on something without value (alternately the viewing of the sign or gobs of USD backed by a relatively valueless coin).

Posted by: bonhomme at January 10, 2013 03:15 PM (ucDNG)

61
Lets all just be thankful we were spares Stevie Nicks.

I never understood the appeal of D Harry. If she hadn't been married to Chris Stein, she'd have been just another washed up Playmate.

Marketing > talent.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 03:15 PM (yiIja)

62
Thats a good point, we own the moon, flag and everything there. Charge other countries to look at it. Enjoy its beneficial wave production.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 10, 2013 03:15 PM (p/cQy)

63 My dad came out of NJ, so I'll call that TWO good things. *nod*

So, here's the thing. This whole "trillion dollar coin" thing -- what would be the use of minting a coin with a $1 trillion denomination unless the actual composition of that coin were, itself, worth at LEAST $1 trillion? Yes, I know that regressives are idiots who don't understand how money works, but even the stupidest regressive should understand that you can't just make a penny and slap a $1 trillion denomination on it and have it accepted as $1 trillion in legal tender.

"Well, it would be like the paper money we print every day," they might say. "The material and manpower needed to make a single hundred dollar bill isn't worth $100. We just SAY, ' This slip of green paper is worth $100.' A trillion dollar coin would be the same."

"Well if that's the case," I'd respond, "then why bother minting a COIN? Why not print a trillion dollar bill and lock it away in a vacuum-sealed container in a vault somewhere? If all you're doing is inventing a single piece of currency for the purpose of manipulating the economy, then why does it have to be a coin? The only reason a coin would be more appropriate than a bill would be if the intrinsic value of the coin is enough to cover the denomination."

The cost to mint a single trillion dollar coin -- the cost to create the mold, purchase the platinum, pay artists to design the coin and stamp it out, store it and protect it, not to mention storing and protecting the mold -- is much more expensive, in relative terms, than the cost of minting billions of copperish pennies. The latter are then in circulation for decades, adding to the economy with each transaction, so that one penny can add up to millions of dollars in economic activity, more than covering the cost of its production. A single uncirculated platinum coin, however, is nothing but that: a single, uncirculated coin. It contributes nothing to the economy except its existence. 'This coin pays all our debts,' is not economic activity. It's magical thinking.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 10, 2013 03:15 PM (4df7R)

64 Well, you know there's an awful lot of fakes out there, not really a big market for these, I'll be holding onto it for a while, and I've got to make a profit. I'l give you $200. That's hundred dollar bills, right now.

Posted by: Chumley at January 10, 2013 03:16 PM (wAQA5)

65 Can't wait for the 100th comment so we can go OT.

Posted by: Soona at January 10, 2013 03:16 PM (gKwHR)

66
Joe Isuzu is more credible than Barry


Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 10, 2013 03:08 PM (1Jaio)

Tommy Flanagan's marriage to Morgan Fairchild is more credible.
http://tinyurl.com/ahxd9ao

Posted by: MrCaniac at January 10, 2013 03:17 PM (Zd/NW)

67 is ace done for the day? is it platinum coins all day today?

Posted by: L, elle at January 10, 2013 03:17 PM (0PiQ4)

68 It would be cheaper and more honest for Barry just to sign a personal IOU to the Fed. It's not like they would reject it, or get paid back either way.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 03:18 PM (evdj2)

69 I would only ask that the coin be delivered by hand.

Posted by: Picric at January 10, 2013 03:18 PM (M7sJo)

70 65
Can't wait for the 100th comment so we can go OT.

Posted by: Soona at January 10, 2013 03:16 PM (gKwHR)


I thought the magic number was 50....so proceed.

Posted by: Tami at January 10, 2013 03:18 PM (X6akg)

71 I'm figuring Sandy has been replaced by "the flu epidemic" as a reason why the economy is sluggish. Never mind all that other stuff like ...policies and Obamacare. It's because of the Flu.

Posted by: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain at January 10, 2013 03:19 PM (bj+Nc)

72 Can't wait for the 100th comment so we can go OT.

Just create a comment and call it the 100th.

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 10, 2013 03:19 PM (ryAWr)

73 Can't wait for the 100th comment so we can go OT.

Why wait? It went OT with the first comment.

Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 03:19 PM (GQ8sn)

74
ooooh..... Blondie.


Fapfuel from my youth.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 10, 2013 03:19 PM (nELVU)

75 Just create a comment and call it the 100th.

Nice. We deem it so.

Posted by: nancy pelosi at January 10, 2013 03:19 PM (evdj2)

76 Just create a comment and call it the 1,000,000,000,000th.
Posted by: Barack Obama at January 10, 2013 03:19 PM (ryAWr)


FTFY.

Posted by: Insomniac at January 10, 2013 03:20 PM (DrWcr)

77 More evidence of just how large a number one trillion is.

There's a website for that.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 10, 2013 03:20 PM (XXHzt)

78 Wouldn't it make more sense to mint the trillion dollar coin in CGI Pixels? It's all just a fucking illusion anyways.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 10, 2013 03:20 PM (81UWZ)

79 The $1 trillion dolloar coin --- our ticket to financial freedom.

Posted by: Soona at January 10, 2013 03:20 PM (gKwHR)

80
MWR, one correction there, the treasury is not allowed to print paper money, it is illegal, no shit, so coins it has to be.

(only the fed reserve is allowed, but don't get me started on that criminal enterprise).

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 10, 2013 03:20 PM (p/cQy)

81 What we need is a unicorn that shits platinum coins. That will solve the economic crisis!

Posted by: Insomniac at January 10, 2013 03:21 PM (DrWcr)

82 So, here's the thing. This whole "trillion dollar coin" thing -- what
would be the use of minting a coin with a $1 trillion denomination
unless the actual composition of that coin were, itself, worth at LEAST
$1 trillion? Yes, I know that regressives are idiots who don't
understand how money works, but even the stupidest regressive should
understand that you can't just make a penny and slap a $1 trillion
denomination on it and have it accepted as $1 trillion in legal tender.



"I have one that can SEE!"

Posted by: Alien talking into watch at January 10, 2013 03:21 PM (GQ8sn)

83 Statue of Liberty has 200,000lbs of copper in it. It is roughly $3.65/lb for a high price. Or would generate $730,000.

The statue also has 250,000lbs of steel in it also.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:21 PM (KnIgz)

84 All the platinum on earth for the next century and some change.


Yep, that sounds like Democrat thinking for sure.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at January 10, 2013 03:22 PM (mrnos)

85 100 Shit. This is easy. No wonder Dear Leader loves the idea.

Posted by: Soona at January 10, 2013 03:22 PM (gKwHR)

86 You do realise the garden pants gnomes have a better business plan than this blasted coin.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:22 PM (KnIgz)

87 is ace done for the day? is it platinum coins all day today?
Posted by: L, elle at January 10, 2013 03:17 PM (0PiQ4)



It's platinum coins all the way down.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 03:23 PM (VtjlW)

88 @Toby928,

My concern is that the republican party as it's composed in congress, is going to have a hard time drumming up moral authority for the debt ceiling fight.
They were at least partially complicit in this mess and so for LIVs (after some media brain washing gets done) can't really argue against it.

There is at least some passing logic to the "we already spent this" argument. (i.e. it makes sense on its face, and that's all the LIVs care about.)

At least on the budget issue they can claim "fine, we did this in the past but no more!" and make an argument for it.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 10, 2013 03:23 PM (ULkyQ)

89 >>>what would be the use of minting a coin with a $1 trillion denomination
unless the actual composition of that coin were, itself, worth at LEAST
$1 trillion?

I can only wonder about the mental breakdown which causes this question to be asked. With Trillions of dollars electronically printed each year (meaning that they are made of literally happy thoughts and nothing else) none of which have physical being why on Earth would we make currency that actually has intrinsic value. The average quarter is worth about 5 cents in nickle and copper. That practice of intrinsic coins is an anachronism this day and age.

The reason why Platinum coin is because it is legal for the Treasury to mint them of any size and assign them any face value because congress in their infinite wisdom put no limitations on the Treasury's ability to mint platinum coins. Whereas other coin denominations are tightly controlled.

This is just a convenient ruse for bringing 1T$ into the treasury without going through the federal reserve and having them just give the government money which is illegal. Because the Fed controls the paper money, the Treasury controls the coinage.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 10, 2013 03:23 PM (0q2P7)

90 MSNBC host and commentator Melissa Harris Perry surprisingly defended the lack of diversity in President Obama's second term cabinet in an appearance on the network this morning. Harris Perry says just because someone is of one gender and not the other or has a certain skin color doesn't mean they are representative of that specific group. Harris Perry cites Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as an example, who she says doesn't represent "the vast majority" of African-Americans.

MSNBC host and commentator Melissa Harris Perry says we should "be careful" when it comes to calling out the hypocrisy of President Obama for having a not so diverse cabinet. Perry says we don't want to "assume that any given physical body carries with it a set of political ideas."

Harris Perry names Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as an example. Harris Perry says just because he is black it "does not mean Justice Thomas is representing necessarily the positions, the issues, even the Constitutional interpretation that is shared by the vast majority of civil rights organizations, by the vast majority of African-Americans."


What a bunch of hypocritical stupid lying bastards at MSNBC.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 10, 2013 03:23 PM (9Bj8R)

91 Alexthechick, instead of raining men I guess its raining platinum coins. Something Zeus never attempted with Leda or any of the other girls.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:23 PM (KnIgz)

92 It's platinum coins all the way down.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 03:23 PM (VtjlW)

We beg to differ.

Posted by: Turtles at January 10, 2013 03:24 PM (DrWcr)

93 Someone hit the blog.

It appears to be skipping.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 10, 2013 03:24 PM (djdc7)

94 Platinum coin = wooden nickel

Posted by: Vizzini at January 10, 2013 03:24 PM (O7Q1u)

95 A trillion dollars worth of anything is too large to be molded or minted into a single coin. Are they going to makeca coin bigger than several aircraft carriers smushed together?

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Wilde Wrepublican Wench at January 10, 2013 03:24 PM (0pme7)

96
*** TILT ***

Posted by: fixerupper at January 10, 2013 03:24 PM (nELVU)

97 0000000000000 comment

Posted by: cajun carrot at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (UZQM8)

98 Instead of a Platinum Coin the Fed should issue bundles of illegals ziptied together as potential work parties and other forms of labor.

They could be traded on the international market or domestically as they are currently.

If we needed more we could open the borders.

......oh wait

Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (aZ6ew)

99 It's platinum coins all the way down.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 03:23 PM (VtjlW)


-------------------------------------------


I love it when you talk dirty.

Posted by: Soona at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (gKwHR)

100 awww missed by 3

Posted by: cajun carrot at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (UZQM8)

101 LOL Son of a....

Posted by: cajun carrot at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (UZQM8)

102 Harris Perry is a racist, ignorant scrunt.

Posted by: Adam at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (/YJYi)

103 Posted by: cajun carrot at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (UZQM


**facepalm**

Posted by: fixerupper at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (nELVU)

104 I think I'm going to skip on over to a few porn sites and see how they're taking this trillion dollar coin thing.

Posted by: jwest at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (ZDsRL)

105 Because the Fed controls the paper money, the Treasury controls the coinage.

Then why even bother with using platinum? Why not aluminum? Or tin? Or Uranium-238 which has a radioactive half-life of 4.47 billion years?

Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 03:26 PM (GQ8sn)

106 MWR, one correction there, the treasury is not allowed to print paper money, it is illegal, no shit, so coins it has to be.(only the fed reserve is allowed, but don't get me started on that criminal enterprise).
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 10, 2013 03:20 PM (p/cQy)


Ah, thank you. I was getting the two mixed up!

But the point still stands. You can't just grab a platinum ring from, say, Nasser Jewelers, hold it above your head, and say, "I DEEM THIS RING TO BE WORTH A TRILLION DOLLARS!" It's worth a trillion dollars if the platinum in it, and the manpower needed to make it, are equal to a trillion dollars. If you start passing it around to pay for purchases -- "I'll give you this platinum ring worth $1 trillion for your entire stock of Ferraris" -- and it is actually accepted as legal tender that generates economic activity, then you're getting somewhere. But from what I understand this mythical "platinum coin" would be used to pay down the debt, not generate economic activity. So it's basically a piece of metal that we show to the Chinese and say, "This says we don't owe you $1 trillion of whatever we owe you." Does that make any sense at all?

I admit to being largely ignorant of monetary matters, but I'm immediately opposed to anything PAUL KRUGMAN thinks is a good idea.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 10, 2013 03:26 PM (4df7R)

107 MSNBC or CNN needs to ask Putin what he thinks of the coin.

If we are lucky he will then shuffle off this mortal coil while rolling around laughing.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:26 PM (KnIgz)

108 A couple of points:

The reason that bullion coins have denominations and are officially legal tender is so that they come under counterfeiting statutes.

The face value is intentionally set way below the actual market value of the metal is so that they are not actually used as legal tender. If you tried to deposit a 1oz gold eagle ($50 face) the bank is not obligated to give you 1 cent more than face value. So, of course, nobody in his right mind would do this.

If, say the price of gold went down to $35/oz, the bank would be obligated to credit you with the face value of the coin, i.e. $50, regardless of the market price of gold.

Posted by: Count de Money at January 10, 2013 03:27 PM (t2qrY)

109
>>>All the platinum on earth for the next century and some change.
Yep, that sounds like Democrat thinking for sure.

This is a red herring. The Dems would never mint it at intrinsic value. It would be a 1 or 2 ounce coin with the face value of 1 Trillion dollars, and an intrinsic value of 1-3 grand depending on content. It will be just another piece of fiat money worth far less intrinsically than its face value. Just like the dime, quarter and half dollar, dollar coin (not the real silver one), are all worth intrinsically far less than their face value.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 10, 2013 03:27 PM (0q2P7)

110 Harris Perry says just because he is black it "does not mean Justice
Thomas is representing necessarily the positions, the issues, even the
Constitutional interpretation that is shared by the vast majority of
civil rights organizations, by the vast majority of African-Americans."



I didn't know the vast majority of African-Americans had their own constitutional interpretations. I'd like to hear Peggy Joseph's.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 10, 2013 03:28 PM (QKKT0)

111 MSNBC or CNN needs to ask Putin what he thinks of the coin.If we are lucky he will then shuffle off this mortal coil while rolling around laughing.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 03:26 PM (KnIgz)


---------------------------------------------------


I'm sure he's already called Baraka and told him what a good idea it is.

Posted by: Soona at January 10, 2013 03:29 PM (gKwHR)

112 "but even the stupidest regressive should understand that you can't just
make a penny and slap a $1 trillion denomination on it and have it
accepted as $1 trillion in legal tender."

I'm afraid that's incorrect. The Federal Reserve note in your pocket isn't printed on $1, $5, $20, or $100 in raw materials. It's all based on faith and always has been.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at January 10, 2013 03:29 PM (llljM)

113 100
awww missed by 3

Posted by: cajun carrot at January 10, 2013 03:25 PM (UZQM

Ha Ha, even I don't do shit like that.

Posted by: Al Roker at January 10, 2013 03:30 PM (p/cQy)

114 Where are our Suzanna Gratia-Hupp's (Liby's) nowadays?


Testifying before the US Senate:

http://tinyurl.com/byt6y5u

Posted by: RWC at January 10, 2013 03:30 PM (fWAjv)

115 So it's basically a piece of metal that we show to the Chinese and say,
"This says we don't owe you $1 trillion of whatever we owe you." Does
that make any sense at all?


It could work. The Scarecrow became an intellectual because I gave him a diploma.

Posted by: The Wizard of Oz at January 10, 2013 03:30 PM (QKKT0)

116 One Trillion Dollar Coin? Seriously..... You guys are nuts.

Posted by: Robert Mugabe at January 10, 2013 03:31 PM (jucos)

117 "MSNBC or CNN needs to ask Putin what he thinks of the coin."

Better yet, ask the Chinese what that might do to the value of their US $$$ holdings and wait for WWIII to start.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at January 10, 2013 03:32 PM (llljM)

118 As I've said, let's mint a plutonium coin instead.

Posted by: votermom at January 10, 2013 03:32 PM (pFtxQ)

119 >>>Then why even bother with using platinum? Why not aluminum? Or tin? Or
Uranium-238 which has a radioactive half-life of 4.47 billion years?

Because the authority to coin money comes from congress. (Art 1, Sect 8, Clause 5)

So when the Treasury coins money, it must be in accordance with laws congress has passed allowing them to do so. They just can't willy nilly make a coin up. And congress tightly controls coin definitions and values.

Except for platinum coins.

Congress gave the treasury the power to coin platinum coins, of whatever size and design they want, and affix whatever face value to them the treasury sees fit. Essentially giving the treasury a blank check to mint platinum coins.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 10, 2013 03:33 PM (0q2P7)

120 It's all based on faith and always has been.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at January 10, 2013 03:29 PM (llljM)
------------------------------------------------------
So you gotta have faith, faith, faith.

Posted by: George Michael at January 10, 2013 03:33 PM (jucos)

121 Hey, school shooting is in Taft CA. Does anyone know the previous name of this city? Because you might want to look that up. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Posted by: comatus at January 10, 2013 03:33 PM (qaVK+)

122 I was seriously off topic in the first comment. I don't do that usually.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 03:36 PM (jucos)

123 I'm afraid that's incorrect. The Federal Reserve note in your pocket isn't printed on $1, $5, $20, or $100 in raw materials. It's all based on faith and always has been.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at January 10, 2013 03:29 PM (llljM)


Yes, I know that. It's stupid to mint or print money at cost. It shouldn't cost a penny to make a penny. The penny is then accepted as being WORTH a penny. One hundred pennies is accepted as being WORTH a dollar. As you say, it's all about "full faith and credit." What on earth makes anyone on Capitol Hill think that they can hold up a shiny circle of metal stamped with "$1 trillion" and say, "this is worth $1 trillion," and then expect that the economy ISN'T going to crumble? Who would have any faith in the fiat currency of such a stupid, stupid government?

"You owe me a trillion dollars."

"Here you go! This coin is worth a trillion dollars."

"Says who."

"Says teh government. They minted it. That's what it's worth."

"Based on WHAT? What is this, tin?"

"Platinum."

"Yeah? Well I bought my wife a platinum wedding band that was heavier than this, and it ain't worth no trillion dollars. I want my money."

"But the government says-!"

"The government also says that we have to take water away from farms to save an endangered fish. Like I care what the govenrment says."

How is it any different from Nazi Pelosi and her "we deem it passed" bullshit? It's just another shell game.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at January 10, 2013 03:36 PM (4df7R)

124 I was seriously off topic in the first comment. I don't do that usually.
Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 03:36 PM (jucos)

So what did the caller say?

Posted by: Insomniac at January 10, 2013 03:36 PM (v+QvA)

125 >>>So it's basically a piece of metal that we show to the Chinese and say,

"This says we don't owe you $1 trillion of whatever we owe you." Does

that make any sense at all?

Bottom line. If the Chinese took that little piece of metal, they could present it to the fed and demand a trillion electronic dollars deposited into Chinese accounts in exchange, and the Fed would have to comply. If minted it does by law become negotiable money, and every US bank is required to recognize it at face value.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at January 10, 2013 03:38 PM (0q2P7)

126 Navy S.E.A.L. grievously wounded in Shitcanistan calling in to compliment Rush for keeping him (the S.E.A.L.) going after his injuries and hospitalization. Tore me up.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 03:40 PM (jucos)

127
It's worth a trillion dollars if the platinum in it, and the manpower needed to make it, are equal to a trillion dollars.

Careful. The manpower needed to make it is irrelevant; that's the fundamental flaw in Marx's labor theory of value. (If someone tripped over a 50 lb. gold nugget, the gold would be worth the same as 50 lb. laboriously dug out of a South African mine.)

The coin is worth a trillion dollars if someone (in an arm's length transaction) will provide what people generally consider (here's the flaky part)a trillion dollars worth of goods and services.

After all, as pointed out above, dollar bills have no intrinsic value either. Both the dollar bills and the platinum coin are fiat currency. The difference is that no one in his right mind would accept the latter at its face value. In transactions it would be discounted faster than Zimbabwean currency.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 10, 2013 03:40 PM (DXlwL)

128 "Taft (formerly Moron, Moro, and Siding Number Two)"

Heh.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 03:42 PM (evdj2)

129 Pretty soon we will all need Trillion Dollar Coins to buy bread (if it can be found) at the store. Math is a cold, hard bitch and she will not be trifled with. Get ready, because it's coming.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 10, 2013 03:42 PM (jucos)

130
The trillion dollar coin idiocy raises some interesting questions regarding economics, finance, and psychology. Why do people accept some fiat currency, but not others?

Sure, at the extremes it's easy to answer this question. No one accepts Confederate dollars; the issuing government no longer exists. But at the margin it's more interesting. Suppose they said the coin was worth, say, $10,000? People probably would accept it then. Does the difference arise because they don't actually know the value of platinum, but know for damned sure there's not one trillion dollars worth of it in that coin?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 10, 2013 03:47 PM (DXlwL)

131 For my part, I say forget the trillion dollar coin. Go with the tried and true: tulip bulbs.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 10, 2013 03:47 PM (DXlwL)

132 #121
Moron Calif. is my answer.
Do I get credit?
Wassail!

Posted by: moron trainee at January 10, 2013 03:59 PM (uMClR)

133 Then why even bother with using platinum? Why not
aluminum? Or tin? Or Uranium-238 which has a radioactive half-life of
4.47 billion years?


Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 03:26 PM (GQ8sn)

Why not use Plutonium 239? Maybe about twenty kilos of it? They could store it under Obama's bed for safekeeping. Anybody trying to steal it would have get past the Mooch.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 10, 2013 04:11 PM (29+x5)

134 131 For my part, I say forget the trillion dollar coin. Go with the tried and true: tulip bulbs.
--------------
Thread winner.
And for a useful look at what happens when government starts conjuring millions out of nothing:
the classic tale of John Law and the Banque Generale of France:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/8kto7x

Posted by: leftcoast at January 10, 2013 04:13 PM (aJgsx)

135 If this platinum coin idea has any merit at all (it doesn't), what's stopping any country in the world from minting their own platinum coins and pretend they erased their debt? Either our government takes the entire world for a fool or they are fools, if they are seriously proposing this.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at January 10, 2013 04:21 PM (9eDbm)

136 Seriously? Is there anyone representing the good people of this country, anyone in the media, anyone on the left or right who I still mentally competent. Whoever dreamed this up in the first place and anyone advancing this turd of an idea should be straight jacketed and kept juiced up on haldol and Thorazine for the rest of their days. Just the Ida that crazies like this still roam the streets is more than enough reason to keep lots and lots of guns and ammo.

Posted by: Woody Herman at January 10, 2013 04:22 PM (swblU)

137
They were at least partially complicit in this mess and so for LIVs (after some media brain washing gets done) can't really argue against it.

That's silly. Well maybe not to a LIV, but that doesn't make it NOT silly.

It can framed this way: for every trillion dollar coin minted, that is a trillion dollars we borrow from your children and grandchildren. We're going to pay them back the old fashioned way: inflating away our debt. So by the time your grandkid is old enough to be sent to the store to buy bread, s/he will have to have a couple million dollar bills to pay for it.

I think LIV might get that. Or maybe they just won't care?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at January 10, 2013 04:23 PM (1hM1d)

138
Either our government takes the entire world for a fool or they are fools, if they are seriously proposing this.

I wonder what the Chinese will think when we suddenly add $1 trillion in currency to the market?

If nothing else, it will give them incentive to dump US Treasuries. Might as well get as much for them as they can, before we convert them into toilet paper for them.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at January 10, 2013 04:27 PM (1hM1d)

139 Out with the pennies.

In with the trillion dollar coin.

Call it the 'trill'.

And the thousand trillion coin is the kilotrill

Megatrill.

Gigatrill.

640K should be enough.

Posted by: 2SoonOld2LateSmart at January 10, 2013 05:02 PM (YFAMg)

140 Maybe spending bullion coins at face value explains our current deficit? It's not like we would be in much more of a hole if Treasury did that. Plus for once you'd have the chance to trade paper for something of intrinsic value from the government. Tax refund? I'll take mine in platinum $100 coins, please. Yes, I'll bring a wheelbarrow.

The idea that we'd have to have all the platinum mined for the next 119 years really isn't all that far-fetched when you consider that once markets are forced to recognize the flim-flam that is our current debt structure and start demanding commensurate interest rates it will take us about the same duration to pay off a trillion dollars of 2013 debt...plus interest. Basically we are so screwed at this point that there is probably no net negative to the platinum coin idea because it is difficult for us to be MORE screwed. The fact that the vast majority of Americans are innumerate and have yet to realize this is probably just more proof of how screwed we truly are. If people are bitching about the 2% boost in FICA (back to where it was a couple of years ago) you can imagine how they would complain if all taxes doubled to pay for this FY spending in the current FY.

Posted by: Darren at January 10, 2013 05:40 PM (cKoDv)

141 Also from NJ: Sinatra.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 10, 2013 07:33 PM (8AF9+)

142
Based on my review of an extensive record of evidence, neither the
Paul Krugman nor the NY Times are credible sources about much of
anything (with the possible exception of sports scores and standings).


But ultimately, they fail to ask the real question ...

Why not a quadrillion, quintillion or (Bill Clinton's favorite) sextillion dollar coin ?


Why so short-sighted ?

Posted by: Koumei Nakamura at January 11, 2013 03:37 PM (e8kgV)






Processing 0.03, elapsed 0.0243 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0075 seconds, 151 records returned.
Page size 91 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.

MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat