Enron and the Trillion Dollar Coin

"The Enron scandal grew out of a steady accumulation of habits and values and actions that began years before and finally spiraled out of control." ~ McLean & Elkind, The Smartest Guys In the Room

Once upon a time, Enron had a real business that made real profits. They differentiated themselves from their competitors and stood atop the world, briefly, as one of the most successful, highly regarded and innovative enterprises ever. Then the roof caved in.

Or at least that's how it appeared, anyway.

In reality, as books like The Smartest Guys In the Room and Conspiracy of Fools well document, their focus changed rather early on from engaging in transactions that were good for the business economically to doing transactions that would best window-dress the financial statements by gaming the rules, accumulating massive amounts of debt along the way.

Their use of mark-to-market accounting was blamed, yet it was officially blessed by the SEC. Their hidden debt, masked by layers of special-purpose entities, was (mostly) accounted for within the rules, too, although they were straining at the outer edges.

Those rules, though, were made by man. The rules of economics, whether applied to companies or governments, are forces of nature that don't care that the FASB said 3% outside ownership in an SPE was sufficient to take it off balance sheet or that congress, in its infinite wisdom, created a loophole for the treasury secretary to mint an enormously-labeled platinum coin so the government can keep on spending.

When the end comes, it comes quickly.

"We were so sure of what we were doing and where we were going," one executive who attended [Enron's] San Antonio meeting said. "We didn't know we were living on borrowed time."

I couldn't help but think of Enron as I read the Business Insider piece Gabe linked yesterday, where the Smartest Guys In The Room are saying that the government can do this trillion dollar coin trick and keep the checks going out the door forever with no negative or unforeseen consequences.

"It's a one time thing", they say, ignoring the fact that we'll run a trillion dollar deficit this year that eats up the newly-minted room under the debt ceiling. Then what?

Mint another coin, I guess.

Meanwhile we'll continue to slog along at ~7%-8% U3 unemployment and ~2% real GDP growth (or lower, when you factor the government's deficit spending out of that number) because the tricks and gimmicks aren't really fooling anyone.

Most of the commentary on the trillion dollar coin idea has focused on its legality. That's the wrong question. The right question is: "Is this a wise thing to do?" And the answer is a resounding, "NO!"

So look for the Obama administration to press forward with it.

See also: Megan McArdle, Washington Goes Platinum

Seemingly, the most important thing is for the president to defeat intransigent Republicans—even if that means that the president “for all Americans” who once spoke of winning the future and healing the planet will be reduced to presiding over the Franklin Mint.

Posted by: Andy at 10:00 AM



Comments

1 Nemesis. How does that work?

Posted by: Al at January 10, 2013 10:02 AM (V70Uh)

2 SEC rules are just like all federal bureaucrat rules. They are there for empire building only. And that did not change with Dodd-Fwank.

Posted by: Vic at January 10, 2013 10:03 AM (53z96)

3 Enron is a Best Case scenario for a US bankruptcy. More likely we will have a civil war.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:03 AM (bb5+k)

4 Math? How does that work?

Posted by: Democrats since LBJ at January 10, 2013 10:05 AM (bb5+k)

5 And I still maintain that this trillion dollar coin thing as a dodge to avoid the debt ceiling is illegal.

Posted by: Vic at January 10, 2013 10:05 AM (53z96)

6 The ship is unsinkable!

Posted by: USS Titanic at January 10, 2013 10:09 AM (O7Q1u)

7 And I still maintain that this trillion dollar coin thing as a dodge to avoid the debt ceiling is illegal.
Posted by: Vic at January 10, 2013 10:05 AM (53z96)

Half the stuff the cockholster has done since he got into office is illegal.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 10:09 AM (l86i3)

8 The Enron analogy is a good one. Republicans should use it. The democrats are practicing Enron economics. We know how that story ends.

Posted by: USA at January 10, 2013 10:09 AM (RIg+t)

9 Well rons, time to exercise, later.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 10:10 AM (l86i3)

10 The answer to our debt problem is staring at us from the sidebar.

Posted by: sTevo at January 10, 2013 10:10 AM (/afpH)

11 At least Europe isn't engaged in such chicanery:

http://tinyurl.com/ahhkjck

Yikes.

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 10, 2013 10:12 AM (bS6uW)

12 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:12 AM (5DR1j)

13
10The answer to our debt problem is staring at us from the sidebar.


Legalized hookers in high-heals! yea!

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 10, 2013 10:12 AM (ma1sf)

14 Hey, did anyone else just see Pride walk through here?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:13 AM (5DR1j)

15 The answer to our debt problem is staring at us from the sidebar.
Posted by: sTevo at January 10, 2013 10:10 AM (/afpH)

Legalizing and taxing dope? We've got a multi-trillion dollar debt. That's a lot of dope. And pizza. Until now, I didn't realize Bob Dylan's, 'Everybody must get stoned' was a command.

Posted by: troyriser at January 10, 2013 10:13 AM (vtiE6)

16 The answer to our debt problem is staring at us from the sidebar.

Why stop there? Include heroin, cocaine, prostitution, et al.

Hell, include victim-crimes. God knows if you spend enough money you can get away with it (see Simpson, Orenthal James).

Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 10, 2013 10:15 AM (kqqGm)

17 >>Hey, did anyone else just see Pride walk through here?

I look good in these high heels, don't I?

And I'm completely steady.

Ish.

Posted by: Pride at January 10, 2013 10:16 AM (SUKHu)

18 Legalized hookers in high-heals! yea!

Um, that's only in your sidebar, bro.

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 10, 2013 10:17 AM (bS6uW)

19 Why is it that people think the Laws of Economics are something man-made in the first place? Is it simply because we can't observe (without a lot more effort than most are willing to put forward) their effects?

For instance, no one is going to assert that Gravity was made up by men. The same is true of Newton's Laws of Motion and the Laws of Thermodynamics. We know that calling those "laws" is simply a shorthand way of saying "this is what happens."

Yet few people treat the Laws of Economics like that. They believe (or seem to) that Man invented TANSTAAFL, or the Law of Supply and Demand, or any other such Economic Law.

Why?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:17 AM (5DR1j)

20 Tax government benefits at 100%.

Posted by: zsasz at January 10, 2013 10:19 AM (RDP+N)

21 How would a person actually spend this coin and get change?

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Obamaboro, Vt and Proud of it !!!!!!!!!! at January 10, 2013 10:19 AM (48wze)

22 Why doesn't BO print silver certificates like JFK?

Posted by: Huggy at January 10, 2013 10:19 AM (gyQY/)

23 Its posts like this that reveal the depth of problems in the GOP.

Winning messaging, that overcomes the media narratives, is not that hard and is ripe for the picking. For example, the Feds use accounting rules that are illegal for everyone else. And, the feds use enron style accounting. These are facts (regarding unfunded liabilities, and how debt and savings are counted, and in not having budgets).

What us revealed ("the depth of the problems") is that the GOP is largely uninterested in overcoming messaging problems, bringing change, fixing things, or upsetting the status quo.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:20 AM (9yly6)

24 >>How would a person actually spend this coin and get change?

By next month, just try to buy a gun and ammo and you wouldn't get much change.

Posted by: Mama AJ at January 10, 2013 10:21 AM (SUKHu)

25 The Funny Money must flow.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at January 10, 2013 10:22 AM (FsUAO)

26
The problem the US, Europe, assorted banana republics in the past and Enron and a few other major companies have, is that they are trying to create the illusion of wealth and available money, without actually creating wealth by either resource extraction, manufacturing or some other wealth creating process. The story of Enron, and the reason that the US and Europe do it is to maintain the floating welfare state crap game.

The US government has PURPOSELY chased manufacturing, mining, and other production or resource extraction out of the country, and I don't quite understand WHY, but it keeps on going apace. The remaining manufacturing "value" is somewhat overstated by inflation. This could REALLY collapse.

What will happen with this childish nonsense about a "trillion dollar coin", is that at some time in the future, the US Dollar will no longer be the reserve currency in the world. I would bet that the Chinese will lead this effort to go away from the dollar - which is much more important to us than any military build-up China engages in.
When that day happens, our economy will start to go into free fall, and we will all be MUCH poorer, and inflation will take off to Wiemar proportions. This day is coming, and doing something really stupid like this "trillion dollar" coin only accelerates the time whenthis day comes.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes...... at January 10, 2013 10:23 AM (RFeQD)

27 19: Because if Man invented them, then they can be discarded to allow economic policy they like. For example, socialism. But since they are in fact laws of nature, anything that tries to circumvent them will inevitably fail.

Posted by: Brewer at January 10, 2013 10:23 AM (eV1I0)

28 And Spice must flow.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:23 AM (KnIgz)

29 Posted by: sTevo at January 10, 2013 10:10 AM(/afpH)

As much as I *hate* drugs and their effects, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to legalizing them as long as there was *no* welfare anymore (which we know will never happen while dems draw breath). Taxpayers are already being forced to fund too many people's hell on earth and legalizing while continuing welfare would make that worse.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 10:24 AM (wbeNt)

30 Trillion dollar coins: you can't mint just one. I don't know what number of them our economy can absorb, but once we start, I predict we'll reach that number quickly. Hyperinflation is coming.

Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 10:24 AM (AH6ig)

31 Why stop at one coin? Why not some completely pulled-out-of-Obama's-ass random number like, say, 16-and-a-half coins? Or let's make it really pay off: every taxpayer gets a trillion dollar coin. I'm sure that'll work.

It's getting more like post-WWI Germany all the time here.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 10, 2013 10:25 AM (eHIJJ)

32 what is the cost to make the coin?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at January 10, 2013 10:26 AM (GVxQo)

33 Trillion Billion dollar baby
Reckless like a gambler, Trillion million dollar maybe
Foaming like a dog that's been infected by the rabies

Posted by: Alice "when zombies were really cool" Cooper at January 10, 2013 10:26 AM (ma1sf)

34 Allen,

A few reasons

1) the state of education in our country (many assume the logical fallacy of, "if it weren't true, the 12 years of school and 4-6 years of college would have told me so. Since no one ever said otherwise, it must be true). In addition, many are actively taught factually false things on economics because it helps the left

2) emotivism is the dominate form of thinking for many. I highly recommend Alistair McIntyre's "after virtue", which includes a discussion of how emotivism is the real foundation for communism (he is a commie who turned Catholic).

3) denial is powerful

There are some other reasons too, but those are the biggies.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:26 AM (HBRB0)

35 why do we even need a coin?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at January 10, 2013 10:27 AM (GVxQo)

36 Everything libs do is designed to embolden criminals, empower our enemies and/or punish producers. Whatever ideas they float, play a game with yourself and determine where it falls.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at January 10, 2013 10:27 AM (NY+Pf)

37 Soon a trillion dollar coin will buy a half loaf of bread. Then, we'll print 10-bazillion dollar notes that will take care of everything!

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 10, 2013 10:27 AM (bS6uW)

38 Trillion dollar coins are like potato chips or time travel plots. Once used, easier to go back and re-use the trick of striking another coin or creating another time travel sub-plot.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:27 AM (KnIgz)

39 Why do McArdle and other, mostly-sane (on fiscal issues anyway) pundits call the debt ceiling an absurdity? Her hand-waving in the Daily Beast rant Andy linked to isn't very convincing.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 10, 2013 10:27 AM (ryAWr)

40 And Spice must flow.

And whoever can destroy a thing controls that thing. Another Economic reality people ignore to their own peril.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:27 AM (5DR1j)

41 Stuart Varney just said Obama will use the 14th amendment argument and ignore the debt ceiling AND the Republicans will let him get away with it.

Posted by: Vic at January 10, 2013 10:27 AM (53z96)

42 Andy, I think the real question is, "If minting two of these trillion-dollar coins is good and proper to avoid reaching the debt ceiling, why not mint twenty of those motherfuckers? Then we can pay off the entire national debt! No, wait! Mint 100 of 'em! Then all the Social Security, Medicare and unfunded pensions can be made whole. Instant solvency!"

Because I'd really like to hear Captain Bullshit's explanation for how making 2 trillion dollars in pretend money is good, necessary, proper and absolutely harmless to the value of the US dollar, but 100 trillion dollars? Now you're just being silly.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 10, 2013 10:28 AM (A+odv)

43 Can we put "The Smartest Guys in the Room" in a barrel zorb and be done with them?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 10, 2013 10:28 AM (eHIJJ)

44 It's getting more like post-WWI Germany all the time here.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 10, 2013 10:25 AM (eHIJJ)

Obama's not a Democrat. He's a Weimar Republican.

Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 10:28 AM (AH6ig)

45 The problem with Magical Thinking is that those that employ it take on the traits of hardcore alcoholics.

What was at some point in the distant past "just having a couple of drinks" morphs into full time blotto with delusions of "I'm fine".

It's very telling just who it is that thinks that "just having a couple of trillion dollar coins" isn't a problem.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 10:28 AM (aZ6ew)

46 AtC- I expanded on the RFID v GPS thing in the previous thread, if you don't think your eyes will glaze over.

That particular story sets me off because I know there are real problems regarding privacy and Student's Rights. This is kind of a "with friends like these..." moment for those of us who really care about those things.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:29 AM (5DR1j)

47 Former Enron Financial Adviser Paul Krugman approves.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 10:29 AM (evdj2)

48 38 Anna Puma,

At that point we will be the first nation to go from king of the fucking hill to bigger joke than Zimbabwae in no time flat.

China will look like a saner safer bet for the Global Cop role and we'll be fucked because EPA is trying to regulate away laws of thermodynamics.

A nation of retards.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:29 AM (LRFds)

49 Not even Ayn Rand postulated a Trillion Dollar Coin.

Posted by: grognard at January 10, 2013 10:29 AM (NS2Mo)

50 Did this change of philosophy at Enron coincide by any chance with hiring of Paul Krugman as an advisor?

Posted by: JimboSlice at January 10, 2013 10:30 AM (Ls7Op)

51 What will the ratings agencies do ion reaction to Obama's Infinite Pockets?

Posted by: zsasz at January 10, 2013 10:30 AM (RDP+N)

52 The trillion dollars enters the economy through government spending.

y helo thar zimbabwe

Posted by: JDTAY at January 10, 2013 10:30 AM (a0nis)

53 That's weird.
TFG is talking about minting a magic coin that erases debt.
And the makers of the board game "Monopoly" are talking about needing a new metal piece for the game.
I think I see a win-win here.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 10, 2013 10:30 AM (jlngc)

54 Stuart Varney just said Obama will use the 14th amendment argument and ignore the debt ceiling

The government takes in almost $7B a day, plenty to cover debt service and vital constitutional services.

Someone important needs to just call out Bullshit on this point.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 10:31 AM (evdj2)

55 The "Right Thing To Do" is usually the most simple and most straight forward. If it's hidden in subtrafuge and lies, ya just know it is NOT the "Right Thing To Do" !

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 10, 2013 10:31 AM (9Bj8R)

56 the makers of the board game "Monopoly" are talking about needing a new metal piece for the game.

It should be a longbow.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:31 AM (5DR1j)

57 The plates to strike the Trillion Dollar Coin will be protected with guns.

Posted by: grognard at January 10, 2013 10:31 AM (NS2Mo)

58 45 on the rocks,

an electorate incapable of listening to the body telling the brain "fuck you you can have another drink when you can tie your shoes"

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:31 AM (LRFds)

59
Hell, include victim-crimes. God knows if you spend enough money you can get away with it (see Simpson, Orenthal James).




Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 10, 2013 10:15 AM (kqqGm)

Didn't we already try that selling of indulgences thing? How did that work out?



Posted by: Martin Luther at January 10, 2013 10:31 AM (bb5+k)

60 Trebuchet

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:32 AM (KnIgz)

61 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) ChannellingBreitbart at January 10, 2013 10:17 AM (5DR1j)

Yes, the Law of Economics are very much "natural law" just like physics. I think you're right that it's due to the time between cause and *visible* effect that people don't realize this.

Well, that and the fact that since progs think the Laws of Physics (whose effects are easily demonstrated) are racist and sexist, they're not exactly open to the possibilty of *more* natural laws.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 10:32 AM (wbeNt)

62 "It should be a longbow."

Crossbow please


And so it begins...........

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 10, 2013 10:32 AM (jlngc)

63 Why not put water with a special coin into Mooochels expensive vodka bottles and tell her its the same?

Why not mint health care coins, give them to the uninsured to spend at medical facilities and get rid of Obamacare?

Why not put a magic coin into the empty fuel tank of Air Farce Won and let it operate, run and hum like the magic coin to fix the economy?

Gee there are so many possibilities! Why didn't they think of this sooner?

Posted by: Deli LLama at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (lGu1O)

64 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 10, 2013 10:28 AM (A+odv)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 10, 2013 10:28 AM (A+odv)




That sounds suspiciously like logic and that shit just won't fly here young man.





Hey! What happened? (A+odv) ?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (da5Wo)

65
the makers of the board game "Monopoly" are talking about needing a new metal piece for the game.

It should be a longbow.


Crossbow. Definitely crossbow.

Posted by: Slow at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (4WhSY)

66 In fact there are three freely convertible currencies in the Galaxy, but none of them count. The Altarian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flainian Pobble Bead is only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu has its own very special problems. It exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu is simple enough, but since Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Nigis are not negotiable currency, because Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it is very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the product of a deranged imagination.

Posted by: zsasz at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (RDP+N)

67 And so it begins...........
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 10, 2013 10:32 AM (jlngc)
---

Recurve FTW

Posted by: Not Ready to Unsock at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (qw+yV)

68 I'm not in favor of this cockamamie coin idea, but what makes it different than any other fiat currency?

Posted by: BSR: Live from Falls Church at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (CBCxo)

69 It should be a longbow crossbow.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:31 AM (5DR1j)


Fixed

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (da5Wo)

70 61 Polli,

I used to challenge people to try to grow their purchasing power by handing me all the money in their pockets....

oddly most folks are not fond of THAT particular demonstration of Ogabenomics.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:34 AM (LRFds)

71 "...and I don't quite understand WHY,"

Every once in a great while the answer, or at least a partial answer, pops up in the comments section here. But only in the comments section.
It gets mercilessly ridiculed.

Posted by: teej at January 10, 2013 10:34 AM (Pwz7h)

72 He's still a loon, but it would be nice to hear Luap Nor go all crazy-talk about a trillion dollar coin and how much candy that could have bought him in 1914.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at January 10, 2013 10:34 AM (FsUAO)

73 At work now, BC. Hash is different almost every day.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 10, 2013 10:34 AM (A+odv)

74 Trillion dollar coins: you can't mint just one. I
don't know what number of them our economy can absorb, but once we
start, I predict we'll reach that number quickly. Hyperinflation is
coming.


Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 10:24 AM (AH6ig)

Trillion Dollar coin? We beat you to it!

Posted by: Zimbabwe at January 10, 2013 10:35 AM (bb5+k)

75
73
At work now, BC. Hash is different almost every day.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 10, 2013 10:34 AM (A+odv)


Gotcha.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 10, 2013 10:35 AM (da5Wo)

76 What will happen with this childish nonsense about a "trillion dollar coin", is that at some time in the future, the US Dollar will no longer be the reserve currency in the world.

This. And it will be this exact moment the house of cards comes tumbling down. The fact that we can print unlimited amounts of paper without devaluing our currency value is the only thing preventing hyperinflation. From government officials to lefty bloggers I routinely see boasts about how it is this one feature, this one magic bullet that only we possess and that sets us apart from everyone else, which ensures that we cannot fail.

So these morons cheerfully go on through life, spending $3.7T for $2.1T we bring in, assuming our status will never change. But we've only been the reserve currency since WWII, and we have plainly abused our position, especially over the past five years. The jig is up, and the cards will come down, and when it happens it will happen very quickly.

Posted by: Blacksheep at January 10, 2013 10:36 AM (bS6uW)

77 Oh if you lovable morons need ammo and the shelves are dry WRT .223 and or .22lr there is still plenty of 12 ga at the last 3 places I went to.

High Velocity #6 shot 12GA 2 3/4s for the win

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:36 AM (LRFds)

78 I'm not in favor of this cockamamie coin idea, but what makes it different than any other fiat currency?

Posted by: BSR: Live from Falls Church at January 10, 2013 10:33 AM (CBCxo)
Ten Zeros.

Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 10:36 AM (AH6ig)

79 Allen,

In addition, what we are really seeing is the consequences of moral rot.

A great deal of the contortions and gimmicks that individuals make, and then groups make, are to try and justify and preserve immoral things.

Instead of the "common sense" (meaning following the guide of the conscience all of us have in broad terms) solutions of "take personal responsibility" "don't spend what you don't have" "don't kill babies just because they are inconvenient" "gay sex is morally wrong and should never be supported or promoted in any way by the state", we get mental gymnastics to avoid these things.

Those that support some of those things naturally NAND together with others, recognizing that they have a common enemy ("the truth"). Combine this with those that have actual bad intentions, and you get things like Johnson's "Great Society" welfare programs that made war on black families and black fatherhood, and tens of millions of wrecked lives.

All problems in society stem from a lack of virtue. And an entire half of our society hates virtue, and runs the schools.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:36 AM (APkRP)

80 By gimmicks they fooled the masses,
until one day the rains did not come,
and the people started to leave,
because they had lost faith,
in the sayings of the Mayan priests.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:37 AM (KnIgz)

81
And I still maintain that this trillion dollar coin thing as a dodge to avoid the debt ceiling is illegal.
Posted by: Vic at January 10, 2013 10:05 AM (53z96)

Half the stuff the cockholster has done since he got into office is illegal.


Half the government (charitably) over the last century has been illegal.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 10:37 AM (TULs6)

82 Hey I once saw a guy pull a coin out of his ass

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 10, 2013 10:37 AM (9Bj8R)

83 76 Blacksheep,

Yessir and our forces while the most able on the planet pound for pound are expensive and small.

We are imploding like the Dutch empire did.

Assholes, fucking assholes coast to coast.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:38 AM (LRFds)

84 I have an alternative material to make the coin out of.

Sintered Pixi Dust.
And no....not from our Pixi.
Real powdered pixis!

Oh.....and compressed Unicorn Poop.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 10, 2013 10:38 AM (jlngc)

85 79 Hopeless,

systemic DEEP moral rot.

"because i want it" is the death of our Republic

envious assholes

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:38 AM (LRFds)

86 Was it Niven or Pournelle who recommended all coinage in the US be made from fissile material.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:39 AM (KnIgz)

87
Yes, the Law of Economics are very much "natural
law" just like physics. I think you're right that it's due to the time
between cause and *visible* effect that people don't realize this.



Well, that and the fact that since progs think the Laws of Physics
(whose effects are easily demonstrated) are racist and sexist, they're
not exactly open to the possibilty of *more* natural laws.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 10:32 AM (wbeNt)

People talk all the time about the distinction between a "fiscal" conservative and a "social" conservative. It is my belief that there are laws of social dynamics which are just as inviolable as are the laws of economics.
People some how think you can ignore the social issues and have a working economic system. You. Can. Not.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:39 AM (bb5+k)

88 Hyperinflation? Can we use that?

Posted by: Cloward-Piven at January 10, 2013 10:39 AM (eHIJJ)

89 How many trillion dollar platinum coins fit in a wheelbarrow?

Posted by: zsasz at January 10, 2013 10:39 AM (RDP+N)

90 Empire of Jeff, #42, and Anonymous Drivel, #31:

Right. I've got that same feeling I get listening to arguments for increasing the minimum wage. I always want to ask, If you really think there's no downside, why are you being such a cheap bastard? Nine bucks an hour? If increasing the minimum wage doesn't increase unemployment, why not twenty bucks an hour? Why not a hundred?

Same for the platinum coin. These people have convinced me, but they're being short-sighted. Think big, Krugman! Let's make it a quadrillion, and we're set for the next several centuries.

Posted by: JPS at January 10, 2013 10:39 AM (QhzoI)

91 Andywhat is your email?

Posted by: Mr Pink at January 10, 2013 10:40 AM (Y1207)

92 We are imploding like the Dutch empire did.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:38 AM (LRFds)

Trillion Dollar Tulips?

Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 10:40 AM (AH6ig)

93 87 diogenes lamp,

we're about to prove it.....

God protect us.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:40 AM (LRFds)

94 Most of the commentary on the trillion dollar coin idea has focused on its legality. That's the wrong question. The right question is: "Is this a wise thing to do?" And the answer is a resounding, "NO!"


You know, I've been very critical in the past about the tying of corporate bonuses to quarterly earnings reports due to the obvious motivation to focus on only the short term without giving consideration to the long term effects/benefits to the company. Look, I don't blame people for trying to hit their figures, I would. I blame those who create such a system from not stopping to ponder the broader effects of such a compensation system.

The same thing is going on in politics now, though it's not even quarterly goals, it's winning the next 20 minute news cycle. We used to lament that the first thing a new congresscritter does is begin running for the next term. That seems so quaint now. Now? Now it's all about what can I get to trend on twitter right nownownownownownow. So the country gets utterly fucked. As Keynes noted, in the long term, we'll all be dead.


So what if minting a trillion dollar coin is an idiotic decision that leads down the path to Weimar Germany and/or Zimbabwe levels of inflation? That's like minutes from now. The important thing is to win right this every second.

I give you this visual representation of how life currently is - http://youtu.be/cmp9_bwNQPg




Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 10:40 AM (VtjlW)

95 Tulips tend to be edible. A metal coin nope.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:41 AM (KnIgz)

96 92 ZMDavid,

Heh no taking the status quo as a self-sustaining given....

Teddy Roosevelt had cogent thoughts on the rise and fall of the Dutch.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:41 AM (LRFds)

97
Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:36 AM (LRFds)


I'm good to go on centerfire and shotgun ammo. down to 1000 rounds of .22 and feel naked...

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 10, 2013 10:42 AM (ma1sf)

98 97 Cicero Kid,

Yeah and .22 Rim is not so far as I know self-loadable.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:42 AM (LRFds)

99
He's still a loon, but it would be nice to hear Luap Nor go all crazy-talk about a trillion dollar coin and how much candy that could have bought him in 1914.

He was literally the only guy (running for POTUS) who actually wanted to stop this shit before it was too late.

You can tweek out about Iran all day long, but the increasingly obvious reality is our financial woes and the FSA represent a greater national security threat than Iran could ever hope to be.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 10:43 AM (TULs6)

100 Just one more Fabergé egg! I can quit anytime!

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at January 10, 2013 10:43 AM (ZKzrr)

101 A coin. why bother. just write " one trillion dollars " on a bar napkin and deposit the friggin' thing.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 10, 2013 10:43 AM (ma1sf)

102
All problems in society stem from a lack of virtue. And an entire half of our society hates virtue, and runs the schools.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:36 AM (APkRP)

And there will be an accounting for it. Just as the laws of economics are rigidly determined by nature, so are the consequences of violating natures social laws.

I see mass death a'commin. I hope I can get me and mine out of the way.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:44 AM (bb5+k)

103 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 10:40 AM (VtjlW)



I started to read that, but then I checked twitter and I got 14 facebook notifications and 5 emails and Instagram is just blowing up with snuggly cat and dog pics and then I got a couple texts and hey, did you know that NFL players are exposed to repetitive head injuries and oh look! Squirrel!!!!

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 10, 2013 10:44 AM (da5Wo)

104 I think the coin should be chocolate to commemorate our Chocolate Jesus

Posted by: Cricket at January 10, 2013 10:44 AM (DrC22)

105 Hey I once saw a guy pull a coin out of his ass

It was. A watch.

Posted by: Christopher Walken at January 10, 2013 10:45 AM (yvLd8)

106 @104

And as a bonus, Christie would eat the coin, saving us from hyperinflation.

Posted by: JDTAY at January 10, 2013 10:46 AM (a0nis)

107 I get the feeling only inertia is keeping the people of the US at the top. Once people around the globe its only pretend money the US is paying debts with, guess what we will have to feed ourselves and build our own stuff.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:46 AM (KnIgz)

108 Now this would be an excellent line of attack.

Which is why we will NOT see the Republicans calling this Enron accounting when King Obama does it.

Speaking of which, King Obama's funding of his cronies at Solyndra and the rest should also get called out as Enron-esque.

But the current Republican party has no interest in winning.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 10, 2013 10:46 AM (AUeaU)

109 >>As Keynes noted, in the long term, we'll all be dead.




Um, I believe Boyd Crowder said that.

.........Keynes just stole it like all of his other spending ideas.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 10:46 AM (aZ6ew)

110 BCochran, add this to your view list
http://youtu.be/z0rwAWz7K0o

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (KnIgz)

111 guess what we will have to feed ourselves and build our own stuff.

You ain't makin' me do no work.

Posted by: Free Shit Army at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (ZKzrr)

112 ...funny, I hear hoofbeats. Four, I think...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (GBXon)

113 I give you this visual representation of how life currently is -

It beats being hacked to death by boat propellers.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (1SE1j)

114 Posted by: sven10077 atJanuary 10, 2013 10:34 AM(LRFds)

Lol, it's too bad that most people's economic knowledge ends right there. It's not a matter of basic intelligence either. Even generally smart people seem to really struggle to grasp more than the very basic concepts.

Full disclosure, it took me three times of checking out Sowell's "Basic Economics" on CD from the library before I could get through it. A lot of things I'd observed made a lot more sense afterwards though.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (wbeNt)

115
Half the government (charitably) over the last century has been illegal.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 10:37 AM (TULs6)

Yes, and it wasn't for benevolent reasons anyway. I am convinced that Lyndon Baines Johnson created the "Great Society" programs for one reason, and one reason only. To try and capture the black vote newly franchised by the 24th amendment. It was a very effective political tactic and one which has rewarded the Democrats heavily ever since.

Vote farming with government money may be deadly to the nation in the long run, but when your goal is to get into power in the here and now, it is a very effective tactic.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (bb5+k)

116 FSA the answer to that is binary - work or starve.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (KnIgz)

117 JDTAY@106,

Would it really save us? I mean it would inflate Christie even more hyperly than now. I'm not sure it'd be worth the risk.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 10, 2013 10:48 AM (eHIJJ)

118 111 Free Shit Army,

She won't I will.

//Starvation and or Progressives with guns

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:48 AM (LRFds)

119 Economic observations found at the following. Comments are worth the read.

May as well go to the source instead of third or fourth hand interpretations.

http://theautomaticearth.org/

http://market-ticker.org/

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/

http://www.zerohedge.com/

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

http://www.mybudget360.com/

http://fofoa.blogspot.com/

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/

Posted by: Mike Hunt at January 10, 2013 10:48 AM (G6kli)

120 The trillion dollar coin idea is just printing new money to pay of old debts. Hasn't this idea been thoroughly discredited? Why don't we just print enough money to pay off all our debt?

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 10:48 AM (Tt6ky)

121 Hopeless, sven, DL.

Bingo.

Posted by: teej at January 10, 2013 10:48 AM (aqj6v)

122 116 Ms puma,

Ma'am were i not married to a carbine wielding angel I'd marry you.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:48 AM (LRFds)

123 Fiat currency isn't the problem. Look at Bitcoin. It's not even a physical currency but the total supply is nearly static.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at January 10, 2013 10:49 AM (FsUAO)

124 (and it eventually will be fixed)

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at January 10, 2013 10:49 AM (FsUAO)

125 JT Marlin upgrades Amalgamated Wheelbarrow Manufacturing to STRONG BUY.

Posted by: JT Marlin at January 10, 2013 10:49 AM (FITsd)

126 Double posted instead of adding this

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

Posted by: Mike Hunt at January 10, 2013 10:49 AM (G6kli)

127 Sven, Diogenes,

Ding ding ding.

Natural law is the key. Our founders recognized this fact clearly and enshrined it into our founding documents.

The notion of positivism is as erroneous as it is infantile. Moral relativism, legal positivism, etc. If the laws of morality are subject to human desire, then so too must the laws of economics be! And the laws of society!

Now maybe it starts to make sense why Alinsky dedicated his book to Satan? He refused to follow the natural rules, and decided to build his own kingdom based on their rejection. It's called hell.

And it's the book and concept that inspires Obama.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:49 AM (k80Ik)

128 Why not mint 16 trillion-dollar coins and get rid of the debt entirely?

Posted by: zsasz at January 10, 2013 10:49 AM (RDP+N)

129 Ma'am were i not married to a carbine wielding angel I'd marry you.

You're married to an infantryman?

Everyone else is a REMF.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (1SE1j)

130 >>>Hey I once saw a guy pull a coin out of his ass

Which reminds me. They can use the coin I left atop my beer bottle in that skanky Phillipino titty bar

Posted by: Bigby's Golf Clap at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (3ZtZW)

131 112
...funny, I hear hoofbeats. Four, I think...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (GBXon)
I think we're in for Fall of Roman Empire type bad, not quite Book of Revelation type bad, but I could be wrong.

Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (AH6ig)

132 And so we find ourselves locked in a Weimar Republic Simulator. And there doesn't seem to be an 'off' switch.

Posted by: Stu-22 at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (k4bdL)

133
The US government has PURPOSELY chased manufacturing, mining, and other production or resource extraction out of the country, and I don't quite understand WHY, but it keeps on going apace.

There is only one reason: to weaken our country.

Ignoring the immutable Laws of Economics, like ignoring the Constitution, is done for one reason and one reason only.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (yiIja)

134 ...funny, I hear hoofbeats. Four, I think...

So one rider of the Apocalypse? We're going to have a demi-apocalypse?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:51 AM (5DR1j)

135 All problems in society stem from a lack of virtue. And an entire half of our society hates virtue, and runs the schools.

***
It is interesting to note that with the rise of the New Left, we can see liberals moving to calling good evil and evil good.

Just consider for a moment what a "virtuous" liberal now believes:

1) It is good to kill the unborn, especially if they would grow up to be "human weeds" or "useless eaters".

2) Racial discrimination is good.

3) Coveting, and taking, from your neighbor is good.

4) Imprisoning/killing people is ok if they wrong-think (anti-global warming, pro-2nd Amendment, etc).

5) There should be one set of rules for the elites and another for the plebes

etc



Posted by: 18-1 at January 10, 2013 10:51 AM (AUeaU)

136 Geez people.... all of these sudden marriage proposals... enough to spook anyone

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:51 AM (KnIgz)

137
You can tweek out about Iran all day long, but
the increasingly obvious reality is our financial woes and the FSA
represent a greater national security threat than Iran could ever hope
to be.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 10:43 AM (TULs6)

And how did we get here? MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA!

I have long maintained that the Media have always been a greater threat to this nation than were Al Qaeda. They are the people who keep getting Democrats elected. It is long past the time we dealt with them as we would an enemy during a war.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:51 AM (bb5+k)

138 Years ago, liberals started saying things like, "the government can no more run out of money than the NBA can run out of points."

The problem with both the literal and the simile is that in both cases the money and the points start to become worthless.

Posted by: ronsonic at January 10, 2013 10:51 AM (k+hyc)

139 129 Sean Bannion,

I'm the ex-infantryman she is a PROUD REMF and they issue Carbines to way too many folk going all mall ninja SB....

hope you're well.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:52 AM (LRFds)

140 115 DL "I am convinced that Lyndon Baines Johnson created the "Great Society"
programs for one reason, and one reason only. To try and capture the
black vote newly franchised by the 24th amendment. It was a very
effective political tactic and one which has rewarded the Democrats
heavily ever since."

Vote-buying is why politicians do nearly all of what they do. This is why majoritarianism always fails. You can argue that we're not a majoritarian system because we have a Constitution, separation of powers, etc., and you're right, but that doesn't address the point.

The point is that we have enough majoritarian elements that this is still creating enough problems to destroy us.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 10:52 AM (Tt6ky)

141 A demi-lypse? Well as long as it don't settle around my waist or thighs... For payment here is a $1trillion coin, keep the change.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:52 AM (KnIgz)

142 Why don't we just print enough money to pay off all our debt?
___
Worked for us!

Posted by: Zimbabwe at January 10, 2013 10:52 AM (AUeaU)

143 All problems in society stem from a lack of virtue. And an entire half of our society hates virtue, and runs the schools. Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:36 AM (APkRP)
Ah Ha another opportunity to repeat a Churchill quote.

" He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"

Posted by: polynikes at January 10, 2013 10:52 AM (m2CN7)

144 So one rider of the Apocalypse? We're going to have a demi-apocalypse?

Yeah, it's just me today. Famine has the shift next week, and Pestilence after that I think. I gotta double check the schedule.

Posted by: War at January 10, 2013 10:53 AM (1SE1j)

145 18-1: "But the current Republican party has no interest in winning."

Yep. It could produce a spectacle public presentation on the steps of the Congress every single day to educate the American people on all sorts of issues. But it won't. Because it's Stupid and thrives on that.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 10, 2013 10:53 AM (eHIJJ)

146 136 Anna Puma,

Mostly jocular given you and I both said "starvation" in the same span.

Seriously we need to form groups of interlocking protection from the fall folks.

This is gonna get bad.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:53 AM (LRFds)

147

“this country is on the verge of an explosion.”


Why, yes, yes it is.

http://www.therightscoop.com/caddell-this-country-is-on-the-verge-of-an-explosion/

Posted by: JEF: If I had a Furry, He w/look like Wile E. Coyote at January 10, 2013 10:54 AM (LpQbZ)

148
Um, I believe Boyd Crowder said that.

.........Keynes just stole it like all of his other spending ideas.




Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 10:46 AM (aZ6ew)

I have seen it argued that Keyne's economic outlook is just an extension of his Homosexual mindset. This is just a variation of "Party today, for we die tomorrow."


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:54 AM (bb5+k)

149 Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:39 AM(bb5+k)

Agreed. It's almost as if the writer of Proverbs was on to something.

When John and I read "The Millionaire Next Door" we were both struck by how, whether believers or not, those who became modestly wealthy were following the rules laid out in Proverbs.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 10:54 AM (wbeNt)

150 Sven, I know. But I am starting to view Russians as optimists. Its getting that bad da?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:54 AM (KnIgz)

151
I have long maintained that the Media have always been a greater threat to this nation than were Al Qaeda.
***
After 9/11 the Democrats actually started to approach sanity - they still fought for some of their ideas, but they started to move away from a lot of their most extreme hate America program.

The State Media didn't like this state of affairs, and became the opposition party until they could mold the Democrats into the current extremist group we see today.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 10, 2013 10:54 AM (AUeaU)

152 146 sven "Seriously we need to form groups of interlocking protection from the fall folks."

Otherwise known as communities! Didn't we use to have those once?

related movie plug: Meet John Doe!

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 10:55 AM (Tt6ky)

153 ...funny, I hear hoofbeats. Four, I think...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (GBXon)


I'm often dreading the notion that "Revelations" might be correct, and we are living it.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:55 AM (bb5+k)

154 So one rider of the Apocalypse? We're going to have a demi-apocalypse?

Layoffs. Word is Death and Plague are putting in for stocker jobs at the new Walmart in Elysium. War was last seen muttering incoherently behind a 7-11...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 10:55 AM (GBXon)

155 150 Anna Puma,

I recall reading an analysis from the '60s that said the only two cultures guaranteed to survive a global nuclear war were Quebec and China...

we gotta protect our own first.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:55 AM (LRFds)

156 It beats being hacked to death by boat propellers.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 10, 2013 10:47 AM (1SE1j)



Fair point. You know, the reasons I love manatees so much is they have the perfect life. Swim, float, eat, play tag, it's awesome! Except that minor little getting hacked to death by boat propellers thingy.


Boy BFF was going to do the adopt a manatee thing and then pondering what I would do to him when said manatee died. I pointed out to him that I'm fairly certain that I would have an immortal manatee, what with the organization wanting to make sure I kept sending them money.


I would like the Horde to ponder an immortal manatee of the Highlander type. That's right, manatee with a broadsword. Good luck getting that image out of your head.


(Yes, I would have named my putative immortal manatee Methos. What do y'all think I am, a heathen?)

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (VtjlW)

157 It's almost as if the writer of Proverbs was on to something.


Three core rules throughout the book of Proverbs (4 if you're a believer)

1) Work industriously
2) Treat others honestly and respectfully
3) A wise man keeps his trap shut.
4) (and most important for believers) Praise, Honor, and Fear God.

Of course, for believers, if you do 4, then 1, 2, and 3 will come naturally.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (5DR1j)

158 The nation is being run by a bunch of malicious fourth grade children. Yet the grandees of the MSM stroke their beards and exude fake gravitas as they carry on the charade that they are commenting on the actions of responsible, sober adults.

I watch the Wolf Blitzers and Brian Williamses and can't believe that they treat this administration as if it has a clue about what its doing. When will it stop being possible for them to pretend that reality doesn't exist?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (FITsd)

159 149 Polli "When John and I read "The Millionaire Next Door" we were both struck by
how, whether believers or not, those who became modestly wealthy were
following the rules laid out in Proverbs."

This is why liberals hate virtue. Virtue is discriminatory. Only when all people are equally rewarded without regard to their virtue can we be said to be truly equal.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (Tt6ky)

160 152 John J,

yeah now we are 300 million islands and not one land mass I fear.

Gotta jet keep your selves well and eyes on the ball.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (LRFds)

161 Mint another coin, I guess.

This is where I'm going to cheerlead the dems into the Burn. Why stop at one or two coins? Who is keeping them from minting a whole pallet of these coins? Fucking go for broke and mint 1 quadrillion dollar in coins.

Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (GQ8sn)

162 And it's the book and concept that inspires Obama.

Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:49 AM (k80Ik)


Obama is just a symptom of a long occurring cultural rot.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:58 AM (bb5+k)

163 And when everyone is equal regardless of effort, then everyone will be poor.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 10:59 AM (KnIgz)

164 OT Weiner citing at the NYPost

Disgraced ex-Congressman Anthony Weiner has landed a job after being unemployed for 18 months, his first gig since resigning amid a Twitter sexting scandal.

Weiner, who is married to Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton’s aide, Huma Abedin, will work as a consultant at Concept Capital Markets, a Madison Avenue brokerage firm, sources said yesterday.

It’s not a full-time office job, the sources said.

The news was all the buzz yesterday at a power breakfast at Winter, a pop-up restaurant run by Loews Regency Hotel as its traditional spot undergoes renovations.

Sources added that the job is one of several part-time gigs Weiner is stringing together to make a living. His spokeswoman couldn’t be reached for comment.

Posted by: Thunderb at January 10, 2013 10:59 AM (Dnbau)

165 Diogenes "I'm often dreading the notion that "Revelations" might be correct, and we are living it"

Just "Revelation". No "s".

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 10:59 AM (Tt6ky)

166 Yep. It could produce a spectacle public presentation on the
steps of the Congress every single day to educate the American people on
all sorts of issues. But it won't. Because it's Stupid and thrives on
that.
___
And so a country that can afford to pay for Cowboy Poetry Slams and a woman to pour chocolate on her naked body does not have a problem with how much money it takes from its citizens in taxes, but in how it spends this money.

We have put together a zero base line budget that will only fund the level of government we need and cuts a trillion dollars in spending on boondoggles and hand out to friends of the president immediately.

I have requested Harry Reid and the Democrats do likewise. We are very interested in discussing where they believe we should use the dollars we are taking from the American people, but we will not approve any budget that spends more then $3T in 2013 - which you will note is still higher then the last budget George Bush signed. We will adjourn until Reid presents a proposal back to us or the Senate and President vote on the Fiscal Sanity budget.

I will not be taking any questions.

Posted by: John Boehner if he wanted to win at January 10, 2013 11:00 AM (AUeaU)

167 I think we're in for Fall of Roman Empire type bad, not quite Book of Revelation type bad, but I could be wrong.


Posted by: zmdavid at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (AH6ig)


I think with the nature of the current occupants of the US portion of North America, when it breaks bad, the silly narcissism surrounding us will transform into the worst sort of malignant evil.
When the Sandra Fluke "Whore of Babylon" types are celebrated by the populace, it is likely going to be a "Revelation" style of collapse.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:01 AM (bb5+k)

168 "Weiner's just a gigolo and everywhere he goes,
people know the part he's playing."

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:01 AM (KnIgz)

169 I have seen it argued that Keyne's economic outlook
is just an extension of his Homosexual mindset. This is just a variation
of "Party today, for we die tomorrow."
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 10:54 AM (bb5+k)




I didn't know that Keynes had inflatable loafers but that was just a joke about Justified.

I kill me.

.....and apparently there's very little collateral damage.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 11:01 AM (aZ6ew)

170 I'm often dreading the notion that "Revelations" might be correct, and we are living it.

On the bright side, the good guys win that scenario. Which actually is hopeful, making it a preferred possibility. Says volumes, sadly.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 11:01 AM (GBXon)

171 According to the Washington Post, Obama will name his Chief of Staff Jacob Lew to replace Geithner as Treasury Secretary.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at January 10, 2013 11:01 AM (5UlAL)

172
Ignoring the immutable Laws of Economics, like ignoring the Constitution, is done for one reason and one reason only.


Posted by: Backwards Boy at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (yiIja)


I disagree. As one of the corollaries to Murphy's law says:

"Never attribute to Malice what can be explained by stupidity."

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:02 AM (bb5+k)

173 163 Anna "And when everyone is equal regardless of effort, then everyone will be poor."

Faith without works is dead. This is why liberals emphasize navel-gazing.

"It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you." Batman

"You are what you do every day." Aristotle

"I want to spend more time looking at this lint I found in my navel." liberal mantra

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:03 AM (Tt6ky)

174 A joke from Facebook:

From my Mom:

In the coming New Year, 2013, both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union address will occur on the same day.

This is an ironic juxtaposition of events. One involves a meaningless
ritual in which we look to an insignificant creature of little
intelligence for prognostication.
The other involves a groundhog.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:05 AM (Tt6ky)

175 "Character is what you are in the dark." Lord John Whorfin

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 11:05 AM (GBXon)

176 47 Former Enron Financial Adviser Paul Krugman approves.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 10:29 AM (evdj2)



Bingo. This was my first thought.

Posted by: Truman North at January 10, 2013 11:06 AM (I2LwF)

177 Great analogy. Another way of thinking about this, is what if Greece did this? Would you think Greece was totally okay doing such a thing? Doubtful.

Accounting tricks are called tricks for a reason.

Posted by: sexypig at January 10, 2013 11:06 AM (dZQh7)

178 One day, as they squat hungrily around the cooking fires among the windblown ruins, American children will marvel at the story of the minting of this magical trillion-dollar platinum coin. Songs will be sung extolling its shiny magnificence. Whole generations will scavenge the wastelands looking for it. Mounds ofdiscarded quarters and nickels and dimes and pennies will accumulate and rise over time to the size of high hills. Long, bloody tribal wars will be fought among those copper mounds over possession of those Franklin Mint commemorative coins once sold on late-night television, so big and bright and shiny they must be mystical cousin coins to the Mighty Magical Platinum Coin Of Power.

At some point, a very old and frail Paul Krugman will finally run out of food and entertainments and crawl from his Manhattan safe room and step out into this savage new world, whereupon he will be discovered by a wandering band of marauders, who will brutally use him like a woman andthen offer up hisscrawny carcass as a sacrifice to SMOD. Somewhere in the distance, a coyote howls.

Posted by: troyriser at January 10, 2013 11:07 AM (vtiE6)

179 The point is that we have enough majoritarian elements that this is still creating enough problems to destroy us.


Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 10:52 AM (Tt6ky)

You are correct, but we weren't founded as a Majoritarian system. The 24th amendment, and the 26th amendment were the instruments by which we transformed from a "Non-Majoritarian" system into a defacto "Majoritarian" one.

I regard it as a axiom that no successful or functioning society can exist when the non-contributors have equal say with the contributors. In Engineering this is known as a "negative feedback" system. Disconnect that, and a motor runs away with itself until it explodes.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:07 AM (bb5+k)

180 BCochran,

If you want to price shop for 12g shells, head over to Luckygunner.com. They've got prices from 26/shell for trap shooting, all the way up to $2.50/sabot slugs.

Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 11:08 AM (GQ8sn)

181 Magic trillion dollar coins are laughable and only a fool would put faith in them.

What?

Magic beans, you say? Done! Here's my cow.

Posted by: Jack at January 10, 2013 11:08 AM (YXmuI)

182 179 Diogenes "The 24th amendment, and the 26th amendment were the instruments by which
we transformed from a "Non-Majoritarian" system into a defacto
"Majoritarian" one"

I rather think the 17th is more to blame.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:08 AM (Tt6ky)

183
Seriously we need to form groups of interlocking protection from the fall folks.

This is gonna get bad.


Posted by: sven10077 at January 10, 2013 10:53 AM (LRFds)


I advise you to form groups of interlocking self protection amongst your neighbors. I also advise you to move out into the countryside (away from large cities) if you are able to do so.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:09 AM (bb5+k)

184 Posted by: troyriser at January 10, 2013 11:07 AM (vtiE6)


*sniff* That was beautiful. *sniff*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 11:09 AM (VtjlW)

185
"At some point, a very old and frail Paul Krugman will finally run out of food and entertainments and crawl from his Manhattan safe room and step out into this savage new world, whereupon he will be discovered by a wandering band of marauders, who will brutally use him like a woman andthen offer up hisscrawny carcass as a sacrifice to SMOD. Somewhere in the distance, a coyote howls."
^^ Would make for a decent "post apocalyptic" flick.

Posted by: Jess1 at January 10, 2013 11:09 AM (lbiWb)

186 16th and 17th. Gave DC easy access to money and stripped the several States of their voice in DC.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:10 AM (KnIgz)

187 "At some point, a very old and frail Paul Krugman will finally run out
of food and entertainments and crawl from his Manhattan safe room and
step out into this savage new world, whereupon he will be discovered by a
wandering band of marauders, who will brutally use him like a woman
andthen offer up hisscrawny carcass as a sacrifice to SMOD. Somewhere in
the distance, a coyote howls."
^^ Would make for a decent "post apocalyptic" flick.


In reference to TFG and his policies, I would call this movie...

"The Choad"

Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 11:10 AM (GQ8sn)

188 Troyriser I would think SMOD would give an extra special smite for offering up such a worthless hetacomb.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:12 AM (KnIgz)

189 It's pronounced Big Boo-Tay! TAY!

Posted by: John Bigbooté at January 10, 2013 11:12 AM (A+odv)

190
172
Ignoring the immutable Laws of Economics, like ignoring the Constitution, is done for one reason and one reason only.


Posted by: Backwards Boy at January 10, 2013 10:50 AM (yiIja)




I disagree. As one of the corollaries to Murphy's law says:

"Never attribute to Malice what can be explained by stupidity."

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:02 AM (bb5+k)

--------------

But then stupidity is often used as a cloaking device for malice.
Or more precisely, feined stupidity.

"Oops, I did it again."


When supposedly smart people, keep doing stupid things...there reaches a point when one must ponder whether they are doing it on purpose...and for a reason.

Posted by: wheatie at January 10, 2013 11:12 AM (fH4X9)

191 This is where I'm going to cheerlead the dems into the Burn. Why stop at one or two coins? Who is keeping them from minting a whole pallet of these coins? Fucking go for broke and mint 1 quadrillion dollar in coins.
Posted by: EC at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (GQ8sn)

As long as we can increase UI to $7 million dollars per check. SNAP benefits card to be used anywhere with a $12 million per month limit.

Mind you, these numbers are just off the top of my head. We can go a LOT bigger than that.

(Liberal economics is fun)

Posted by: RWC at January 10, 2013 11:12 AM (fWAjv)

192 The Math is a Harsh Mistress. With apologies to Robert A. Heinlein.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 10, 2013 11:12 AM (GFM2b)

193 The nation is being run by a bunch of malicious
fourth grade children. Yet the grandees of the MSM stroke their beards
and exude fake gravitas as they carry on the charade that they are
commenting on the actions of responsible, sober adults.

I watch
the Wolf Blitzers and Brian Williamses and can't believe that they treat
this administration as if it has a clue about what its doing. When will
it stop being possible for them to pretend that reality doesn't exist?


Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 10, 2013 10:57 AM (FITsd)


Excellent summation! I have long been baffled as to why anyone shows these people the slightest degree of Respect. They should be called liars and fools at every single Media Opportunity, along with pointing out other examples in Human History where their ideas were tried and demonstrated to be utter horrors in practice.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:12 AM (bb5+k)

194 "...the good guys win won that scenario."

FIFY

It was a couple of millennia ago. Played out over a 3 day period and started on a hill called Calvary.

Revelation will happen. In our lifetime? I don't know. I do know I wish I weren't the least of the believers.

Hopeless, you forgot to include yourself in the ding ding ding you posted.
Glad to see you here BackwardsBoy.
Time for me to go.

Posted by: teej at January 10, 2013 11:14 AM (sr7ZF)

195 Anna, what is with you and the Russian hotties?


No, seriously. And speak slowly into the webcam....

Posted by: BCochran1981 at January 10, 2013 11:15 AM (da5Wo)

196
I disagree. As one of the corollaries to Murphy's law says:

"Never attribute to Malice what can be explained by stupidity."


Except it's not really stupidity IMO. The original comment was that we've (well, not us, but those in power) are purposely chasing away sectors of the economy where the "old" laws of economics were most visible, like manufacturing.

On the surface, it appears as a simple misstep. BJ Cliton's justification for signing NAFTA was to "move into a service-based economy." Sounded all innocuous at the time, the service sector was doing OK. However, what works well as a part of a larger economic structure (that is, interconnected with other true, wealth-generating sectors such as manufacturing) clearly cannot be the sole foundation of our economy. UE has creeped up steadily ever since until we have now arrived at the "new normal" of suckitude.

Spiritually, we know that BJC isn't the best thing that's ever happened to us, just as TFG will eventually become known as our worst president (sad when we've had so many lately). He, along with his fellow travelers on the Left have a deep seated hatred for the institutions of America: what appear to be simple missteps and mistakes are part of a larger pathology.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 11:15 AM (yiIja)

197
Ladies and Gentlemen, for the first time on our stage -- or anywhere, for that matter -- the One Trillion Dollar MacGuffin!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at January 10, 2013 11:17 AM (Jcd0S)

198 "Their use of mark-to-market accounting was blamed,"

I thought it was EBITDA that did them in.

Posted by: jeanne at January 10, 2013 11:17 AM (GdalM)

199
I didn't know that Keynes had inflatable loafers but that was just a joke about Justified.

I kill me.

.....and apparently there's very little collateral damage.




Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 11:01 AM (aZ6ew)


Yup, John Maynard Keynes was a Homosexual. While we're on the topic, the NAZI party started out as a Homosexual club, and many of the worst members of it were Homosexuals. (Butch Homosexuals. They HATED the Fem Homosexuals and reserved the worst kind of abuse for them.)

Google "The Pink Swastika" if you've never heard of this. You might be shocked to learn how central of a role Homosexuality played in the Nazi movement.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:17 AM (bb5+k)

200 Like I said before this os a 3 card Monty Game Politically and you woke up and find out your belief in the US Constitution, makes you a LIABILITY to the Dictatorship...

Posted by: Clemenza at January 10, 2013 11:17 AM (x59Gv)

201 Since this seems to be the week for such things......DiogenesLamp, do you happen to be married already? If so, she's a lucky woman. If not....

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 11:18 AM (wbeNt)

202 NASA, Dept Interior, Commerce, EPA, SBA, and NSF funded through pot?

Those people would be paying their own salaries.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at January 10, 2013 11:18 AM (0It32)

203 When supposedly smart people, keep doing stupid things...there reaches a point when one must ponder whether they are doing it on purpose...and for a reason.


Or that they really are just stupid.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 10, 2013 11:18 AM (GFM2b)

204 Can Obama resist the urge to put his face on the $Obama coin?

Posted by: t-bird at January 10, 2013 11:19 AM (FcR7P)

205 BCochran, frankly I find their music much more appealing than what is currently Top 40 in the US.

This one is in English. And ends with a quote "We are our desires." - Sigmund Freud.

http://youtu.be/wTAIv3cBwlQ

Though I expect the lassies will put you in your bunk before you read that quote.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:20 AM (KnIgz)

206 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 11:15 AM (yiIja)


Re NAFTA:

Rational people know instinctively that shoe clerks selling sneakers made in Viet Nam to fry cooks at McDonalds who buy sneakers from shoe clerks is not the basis of a sound economy.

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 10, 2013 11:20 AM (Cnqmv)

207 China owns about $1.15T.

Mint one, hand it over and call it a day.

Posted by: sTevo at January 10, 2013 11:21 AM (v4kT7)

208 Though I expect the lassies will put you in your bunk before you read that quote.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:20 AM (KnIgz)


Yesterdays video had uber hot girls and a man with no junk, that was scary.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:21 AM (l86i3)

209
Granted, the trillion dollar coin is a trick. It tries to create money out of thin air and does nothing to solve the long term problems.

However, as conservatives, we shouldn't overlook unique solutions to the problems we face. Sure, it would be nice if we could just buckle down and cut spending by 40%, keep taxes down and get the economy moving, but that's a little hard right now.

If we were advising a family that was hopelessly in debt, spending far more than they make each year and was facing a situation where their lifestyle will radically change if something isn't done, we might not suggest opening a new credit line. Instead, we would look at the totality of their assets and suggest something different.

Perhaps we would recommend that this family sell their collection of antique cars or all of the art works collecting dust in the warehouse.

In this same light, the U.S. could establish a quasi-governmental agency (ala Freddy Mac) that would "buy" and in time, sell certain assets of the country. The money could be used now and repaid later without interest - it's all in the accounting. The asset could be the 72 trillion in oil and gas on federal land in the upper midwest.

Just a thought.

Posted by: jwest at January 10, 2013 11:21 AM (ZDsRL)

210 One of my favorite Buckaroo Banzai scenes


Mission Control: Buckaroo, The White House wants to know is everything ok with the alien space craft from Planet 10 or should we just go ahead and destroy Russia?

Buckaroo Banzai: Tell him yes on one and no on two.

Mission Control: Which one was yes, go ahead and destroy Russia... or number 2?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 10, 2013 11:21 AM (A+odv)

211
I rather think the 17th is more to blame.


Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:08 AM (Tt6ky)

It contributed to it, but if you look at Federal Deficits, they did not become this all encompassing mess until after the 1960s, when the "great society" programs had a chance to take effect.

In truth, it was a series of measures which led us into the Majoritarian wasteland.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:21 AM (bb5+k)

212 KvC, I hope you put that Macguffin comment on Twitter. It's very good.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 11:22 AM (wbeNt)

213 I'm all for it, because this is *how* it burns.

Posted by: DanInMN at January 10, 2013 11:22 AM (XqeyF)

214 While we're on the topic, the NAZI party started out as a Homosexual club, and many of the worst members of it were Homosexuals. (Butch Homosexuals.

The uniforms & black biker leather were dead giveaways. Just sayin'.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 10, 2013 11:22 AM (GFM2b)

215 Dwight: Wh…don’t you wanna earn Schrute Bucks?
Stanley: No. In fact, I’ll give you a billion Stanley Nickels if you never talk to me again.
Dwight: What’s the ratio of Stanley Nickels to Schrute Bucks?
Stanley: The same as the ratio of unicorns to leprechauns.
And so ends the American Empire, not with a bang, but with an episode of The Office.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at January 10, 2013 11:22 AM (BrQrN)

216 Layoffs. Word is Death and Plague are putting in for stocker jobs at
the new Walmart in Elysium. War was last seen muttering incoherently
behind a 7-11...


Famine was nowhere to be seen.

Posted by: pep at January 10, 2013 11:23 AM (YXmuI)

217
But then stupidity is often used as a cloaking device for malice.
Or more precisely, feined stupidity.

"Oops, I did it again."


When
supposedly smart people, keep doing stupid things...there reaches a
point when one must ponder whether they are doing it on purpose...and
for a reason.



Posted by: wheatie at January 10, 2013 11:12 AM (fH4X9)


I would argue that we have actually witnessed a combination of both. I find it unlikely that ALL Democrats since the 1960s (Pat Monihan?) were intent on destroying their nation. Many of them were just stupid.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:23 AM (bb5+k)

218
174 Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:05 AM (Tt6ky)


Too true! Saved it for the special day...

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at January 10, 2013 11:23 AM (Jcd0S)

219 23
Its posts like this that reveal the depth of problems in the GOP.



Winning messaging, that overcomes the media narratives, is not that
hard and is ripe for the picking. For example, the Feds use accounting
rules that are illegal for everyone else. And, the feds use enron style
accounting. These are facts (regarding unfunded liabilities, and how
debt and savings are counted, and in not having budgets).



What us revealed ("the depth of the problems") is that the GOP is
largely uninterested in overcoming messaging problems, bringing change,
fixing things, or upsetting the status quo.
================

Because the GOP likes--LIKES--the way things are. Somewhere north of 80% of the Republicans benefit from the current system, even if it is broke as hell.

I keep saying: If the GOP wasn't trying to grow the size, scope and reach of the federal government, what would they be doing differently?

Answer is: Nothing. They are perfectly comfortable with the size, scope and reach of the federal government. And they would like to see it bigger, broader and farther.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 10, 2013 11:24 AM (imtbm)

220
The uniforms & black biker leather were dead giveaways. Just sayin'.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 10, 2013 11:22 AM (GFM2b)


Don't forget the ubiquitous riding crop.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:24 AM (l86i3)

221 You do not have to fear that with this video OSP.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:24 AM (KnIgz)

222 211 Diogenes "In truth, it was a series of measures which led us into the Majoritarian wasteland"

No doubt you're right. There's not just one thing to blame. But if there were one Amendment we could repeal, I'd opt for the 17th.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:25 AM (Tt6ky)

223 Since we are talking of NAZI styling cues. Mel Brooks 'Hitler Rap'
http://youtu.be/yu2NqfISm9k

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:26 AM (KnIgz)

224 219 Royal "Winning messaging, that overcomes the media narratives, is not that

hard and is ripe for the picking."

I completely disagree. If it's so easy, you do it.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:26 AM (Tt6ky)

225
Since this seems to be the week for such things......DiogenesLamp, do
you happen to be married already? If so, she's a lucky woman. If not....

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 11:18 AM (wbeNt)

Yes I am, and yes she is. Me? Not so much. Has been a great disappointment. Would rather not talk about it. Thanks for the compliment though.







Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:27 AM (bb5+k)

226 Posted by: Hopeless at January 10, 2013 10:26 AM (HBRB0)

Ahem,
Stop stealing my Stitck!
Seriously though, After Virtue is really good. But to clarify, MacIntyre was a Marxist (not a communist) prior to writing the book. It was his attempt to deal with Marx (and all it's problems) that lead to the idea for it. (Well that and reading A Canticle for Liebowitz, which should be read with After Virtue.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at January 10, 2013 11:27 AM (ULkyQ)

227 Somebody, FrankJ I think, said "If you use a trillion dollar coin in a soda machine you own all the soda manufacturers in the world"

Posted by: Dave in Texas at January 10, 2013 11:27 AM (Jm7mj)

228 They are perfectly comfortable with the size, scope
and reach of the federal government. And they would like to see it
bigger, broader and farther.


Posted by: RoyalOil at January 10, 2013 11:24 AM (imtbm)

The "mandarin caste" members of both parties is convinced that if only the "right" (and smartest) people can continue to run things for a few more decades, everything will work out fine.

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 10, 2013 11:28 AM (Cnqmv)

229 You might be shocked to learn how central of a role Homosexuality played in the Nazi movement.

Given the nature of their preferred cultural aesthetics, it makes a whole lot of sense.

(Full disclosure: Back in the day I majored in German, and wound up with a fair bit of learning in the modern (1871 on) era and in Nazi era cinema. If you don't think 2008 set off warning klaxons like mad, you simply aren't paying attention.)

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 11:29 AM (GBXon)

230 I had thought the "End of the World™," would come fully lit with glowing mushroom clouds, with mad men pressing nuclear buttons. Instead it comes as God has allowed the stupidest, most idiotic of us to be put in charge.

I could not even imagine a cartoon with Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam arguing over betting a trillion dollar coin about something, and here "leaders," of a nation are considering this action.

If a foreign country printed up a trillion American dollars and put them into circulation we might go to war. But have a popular "bi-racial," President suggest such action, and the NYT's crowd assures us his farts are actually perfume, and magic is real.

Posted by: Jehu at January 10, 2013 11:29 AM (cSD32)

231
Rational people know instinctively that shoe clerks selling sneakers made in Viet Nam to fry cooks at McDonalds who buy sneakers from shoe clerks is not the basis of a sound economy.

Correctamundo. Economics isn't rocket surgery. Wealth can be created. We were really good at it for a long time.

What concerns me is that the current gang of economic idiots in Washington are either ignoring or actively trying to defeat the basic foundations of capitalism. Where this notion of "zero sum" economics came from is a mystery to me. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. However, leftards of all stripes will tell you that it does exist, with a straight face. Krugman is one of the worst. How that guy has any credibility is another mystery.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 11:29 AM (yiIja)

232 Don't forget the ubiquitous riding crop.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:24 AM (l86i3)



You mean like this?


http://bit.ly/LafDy5

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 11:30 AM (VtjlW)

233 Because the GOP likes--LIKES--the way things are.
Somewhere north of 80% of the Republicans benefit from the current
system, even if it is broke as hell.

I keep saying: If the GOP
wasn't trying to grow the size, scope and reach of the federal
government, what would they be doing differently?

Answer is:
Nothing. They are perfectly comfortable with the size, scope and reach
of the federal government. And they would like to see it bigger, broader
and farther.


Posted by: RoyalOil at January 10, 2013 11:24 AM (imtbm)


I have come to believe this as well. The Tea Party represents a threat to these empowered Republicans who have a vested interest in this broken system.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:30 AM (bb5+k)

234 You mean like this?

*Heavy sigh* Yep.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:31 AM (l86i3)

235 Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 11:29 AM (yiIja)


If you carried the zero-sum economic theory to its conclusion, we should all still be living in caves, hunkered over our fires, foraging off the land, and polishing our clubs waiting for the next cave invasion!

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 10, 2013 11:33 AM (Cnqmv)

236 Mitt Romney was the most fiscally conservative candidate Republicans have run since Goldwater. Fiscal conservatism keeps losing because it's unpopular. If you want a fiscally conservative government, make fiscal conservatism popular.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:33 AM (Tt6ky)

237 You know, if the country collapses and China decides to invade, I'd be happy if they wiped out LA and San Francisco as a "warning" to the rest of us. Collectively, the country would laugh. Bonus points if the Chinese then wipe out Washington. Because then most of our problem causers will have been removed and then shit can get real.

Posted by: Eternal Optimist at January 10, 2013 11:33 AM (vge4w)

238
It contributed to it, but if you look at Federal Deficits, they did not become this all encompassing mess until after the 1960s, when the "great society" programs had a chance to take effect.

That was also when we completely abandoned the gold standard.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 11:34 AM (TULs6)

239
Mitt Romney was the most fiscally conservative candidate Republicans have run since Goldwater.

Give me your guys number. I want some of that shit.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 11:35 AM (TULs6)

240 >>I completely disagree. If it's so easy, you do it.
Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:26 AM (Tt6ky)
His comment was right on the money.
If you want to disagree with that one statement about MFM narrative, that's another story.But that's not COMPLETE disagreement. His larger point is why the GOP is losing and not gaining.They are not an opposition party as currently oriented.


Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 11:35 AM (aZ6ew)

241 Severely dank.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 11:35 AM (TULs6)

242 You know, if the country collapses and China decides to invade, I'd be happy if they wiped out LA and San Francisco as a "warning" to the rest of us. Collectively, the country would laugh. Bonus points if the Chinese then wipe out Washington. Because then most of our problem causers will have been removed and then shit can get real.
Posted by: Eternal Optimist at January 10, 2013 11:33 AM (vge4w)

Yeah, once they hit the Rockies and the Appalachians they would slow down a bit.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:35 AM (l86i3)

243 That was also when we completely abandoned the gold standard.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 11:34 AM (TULs6)



Linking the value of the dollar to something tangible like gold is just letting "the man" tie you down!

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 10, 2013 11:36 AM (Cnqmv)

244 Rational people know instinctively that shoe clerks selling sneakers made in Viet Nam to fry cooks at McDonalds who buy sneakers from shoe clerks is not the basis of a sound economy.


Yes, but manufacturing jobs are icky.

Is is the F150 ad that has the line about if you have a job where you shower at the end of the day in it? I always ponder that I hear that and think, yeah, that's an actual job with actual work as opposed to what I do. Our Betters hear that and think how terrible it is that anyone would ever have a job that requires that, bless their hearts.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 11:36 AM (VtjlW)

245
That was also when we completely abandoned the gold standard.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 11:34 AM (TULs6)

Yes, and that was probably a substantial part of it as well. But you cannot deny that the Great Society did not metastasize into this horrible economic cancer that is causing most of our problems now.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:36 AM (bb5+k)

246
If you carried the zero-sum economic theory to its conclusion, we should all still be living in caves, hunkered over our fires, foraging off the land, and polishing our clubs waiting for the next cave invasion!

Also, our GDP would never grow. There would never be any bubbles to pop in the markets. Again, how this demonstrably false notion has remained viable despite all the clearly visible evidence to the contrary befuddles me to no end.

And it's not a new problem. Ronaldus Magnus's famous speech A Time for Choosing makes reference to it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 11:37 AM (yiIja)

247 Yes, and that was probably a substantial part of it as well. But you cannot deny that the Great Society did not metastasize into this horrible economic cancer that is causing most of our problems now.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:36 AM (bb5+k)

Oh yeah, this disaster has Wilson and FDR written all over it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:37 AM (l86i3)

248 Yeah, once they hit the Rockies and the Appalachians they would slow down a bit.

What's the market like on Chinese-to-Spanish dictionaries?

Oh, no reason.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 11:38 AM (GBXon)

249 Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 11:35 AM (aZ6ew)

The Republican Party hasn't been an opposition party for decades. At best, they can be considered a "Happy Minority" Party, only too willing to dine at the trough set for them by the progs!

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 10, 2013 11:38 AM (Cnqmv)

250 240 ontherocks

I didn't disagree with the rest of it. I just completely disagreed with that one statement.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:38 AM (Tt6ky)

251 Yeah AlextheChick. It seems the Entitlement/Self-Esteem generation think if they take a degree in anything it means they will get a job in an office making six figures. Meanwhile those in the trades is still declining and retiring so soon a lot of good old fashioned know how will simply vanish.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:38 AM (KnIgz)

252 I guess no one liked the videos. So I shall endeavour harder then.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:39 AM (KnIgz)

253 If you want a fiscally conservative government, make fiscal conservatism popular.

Well, I doubt I'll make it "popular", but I will make it exist.

Posted by: Math at January 10, 2013 11:40 AM (BrQrN)

254 Gabe has posted a new thread. Same as this thread about this silly dag-blasted coin.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:40 AM (KnIgz)

255 Yep. It could produce a spectacle public presentation on the steps of the Congress every single day to educate the American people on all sorts of issues. But it won't. Because it's Stupid it's part and parcel of the elitist parasites ruling over usand thrives on that.

FIFY.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 10, 2013 11:42 AM (zF6Iw)

256 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 11:36 AM (VtjlW)

I also find it interesting that, in general, service jobs offer little chance to break a close to zero-sum gain model, manufacturing offers many opportunities to break this model by producing more, faster, better, cheaper products, but this only happens when you own the icky manufacturing capability.

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 10, 2013 11:43 AM (Cnqmv)

257 >>I didn't disagree with the rest of it. I just completely disagreed with that one statement.
Posted by: JohnJ at January 10, 2013 11:38 AM (Tt6ky)


Just wanted some clarification, thanks.

.......and Hrothgar, absolutely agree. I go back aways.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 10, 2013 11:43 AM (aZ6ew)

258 Yeah AlextheChick. It seems the Entitlement/Self-Esteem generation think if they take a degree in anything it means they will get a job in an office making six figures. Meanwhile those in the trades is still declining and retiring so soon a lot of good old fashioned know how will simply vanish.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:38 AM (KnIgz)

Funny story, Goin to the glenn beck rally on the train when a very handsome young man got on. He was going to work as a Bartender at a DC restaurant, He was wowed by the number of people so we started chatting. He said he had two masters degrees, one in poli sci and one in international relations. He was opining the fact that he couldn't find a job. I said "I don't know, seems you got the job you are qualified for", amazingly he didn't get mad, he just stared out the window, deep in thought.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:43 AM (l86i3)

259 I guess no one liked the videos. So I shall endeavour harder then.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:39 AM (KnIgz)


Shirly Manson, bleed like me, that's my porn.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:44 AM (l86i3)

260
Yes, but manufacturing jobs are icky.

Is is the F150 ad that has the line about if you have a job where you shower at the end of the day in it? I always ponder that I hear that and think, yeah, that's an actual job with actual work as opposed to what I do. Our Betters hear that and think how terrible it is that anyone would ever have a job that requires that, bless their hearts.


I've been there and done that. I'd come home sweaty, smelly, with cuts all over my hands, exhausted. First thing I'd do is grab a beer and head to the shower. The Daughter of Satan wouldn't even give me a kiss until then.

Manufacturing is dirty and dangerous, there's no doubt. It ain't for the pussified amongst us. There aren't many who are cut out for it. I was. I enjoyed every day, and so did everyone else I worked with. And none of us begrudged anyone who didn't do it. It was what it was and it was our role.

*sigh* I miss the good old days... .

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 11:44 AM (yiIja)

261 Meanwhile those in the trades is still declining and retiring so soon a lot of good old fashioned know how will simply vanish.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 10, 2013 11:38 AM (KnIgz)



Let's start with the important thing - I liked the videos.

Yup. I remember that it became an issue when the National Cathedral was being built that the people carving the gargoyles were dying off and there was no one to replace them.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 11:46 AM (VtjlW)

262 Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 10, 2013 11:42 AM (zF6Iw)


Mrs H and have discussed this many times and come to the same conclusion, namely, that a minority party that never speaks out on the many serious issues facing the country is basically happy with the status quo. And by speak out, I mean on the Capitol steps EVERY FRICKING DAY!

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at January 10, 2013 11:47 AM (Cnqmv)

263 260 I've done light industry manufacturing (plastic extrusion) until it messed up my hands too bad (which took less than six months). You're right, not everyone *can* do that. It does give me moral authority though in dealing with OWS types.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 10, 2013 11:49 AM (wbeNt)

264 Don't forget the ubiquitous riding crop. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:24 AM (l86i3)
You mean like this? http://bit.ly/LafDy5

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Seriously, Sheldon/Penny to the end. at January 10, 2013 11:30 AM (VtjlW)


DAMMIT, Alex - why do you post these - !

*deep breath*

I mean. . .your kindness and beneficence to your unworthy subjects knows no bounds, Imperial One.

*looks around* *heads for bunk*

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 10, 2013 11:52 AM (zF6Iw)

265
Oh yeah, this disaster has Wilson and FDR written all over it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon.
http://tinyurl.com/ahc8poj at January 10, 2013 11:37 AM (l86i3)

Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Obama.

To greater and lesser extents.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 10, 2013 11:53 AM (bb5+k)

266 Can Obama resist the urge to put his face on the $Obama coin?

We should insist on it.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 10, 2013 11:53 AM (evdj2)

267
Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Obama.

To greater and lesser extents.


You forget Lincoln, TR, Hoover, Nixon, Ford, Bush....

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 11:56 AM (TULs6)

268 Can Obama resist the urge to put his face on the $Obama coin?

We should insist on it.


...given what Federal law requires in that regards, give my regards to the nice men in suits with earpieces.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, High Priest of the Gods of the Copybook Headings at January 10, 2013 11:57 AM (GBXon)

269 Ulysses Grant (R)may still edge out Obama as the most unabashedly corrupt administration ever.

Posted by: Entropy at January 10, 2013 11:58 AM (TULs6)

270 Ulysses Grant (R)may still edge out Obama as the most unabashedly corrupt administration ever.

Yeah, I'm not looking so bad now, am I, bitchez?

Posted by: Warren G. Harding at January 10, 2013 12:04 PM (zF6Iw)

271 252 I guess no one liked the videos.

-------

Now, now. Don't get carried away. Can't watch videos at work, so I have to save them all up for when I get home.

Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at January 10, 2013 12:13 PM (IrbU4)

272 No joke...a chick on facebook called deficits and debts "constructs of the patriarchy"

Then she said there was a choice between Capitalism and Communism...which involved Mutual Aid (not sure what she meant but mutual aid societies are allowed in Capitalism, and only went away when the State took over the role of voluntary groups like that.)

And of course she rambled on about "this is about feeding people" the usual Leftist trope that claims poor people are starving, most likely due to Capitalism. If poor people are starving in America its because California messed up the EBT card system for a week-end.

And the kicker...she mentioned Monsanto.

Monsanto, uttered like an old Italian grandmother who then crosses herself to avoid the evil eye.

Posted by: sexypig at January 10, 2013 12:13 PM (dZQh7)

273 Why do we need to mint a platinum coin and pretend it's worth a trillion bucks? Does a thousand bucks worth of platinum make it more credible to pretend it's really a trillion bucks? Does making it a coin make it more money-like and valuable?
We could put anything in the gummint's piggy bank and call it a trillion bucks. We could just write "A TRILLION BUCKS" on the back of an envelope and deposit it. Or a big bowl of cole slaw, the Trillion Dollar Slaw. We could deposit a trillion smacker bowling ball. Or a pack of crackers, those orange kind everyone likes. Or an old Parchesi game bought at a yard sale.
I mean, if we just pretend that we have a trillion bucks in the bank, why go through the trouble of making a coin? Couldn't we just put a stick of gum or pack of smokes in the vault and call it a trillion?

Posted by: Tantor at January 10, 2013 12:15 PM (659DL)

274 What concerns me is that the current gang of economic idiots in Washington are either ignoring or actively trying to defeat the basic foundations of capitalism. Where this notion of "zero sum" economics came from is a mystery to me. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. However, leftards of all stripes will tell you that it does exist, with a straight face. Krugman is one of the worst. How that guy has any credibility is another mystery.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 10, 2013 11:29 AM (yiIja)

Krugman and Geithner and the others are not 'economic idiots'. They know precisely what they're doing. The goal is to crash and discredit the capitalist system. Stephen Lerner, a former SEIU official, was forced to resign in November 2010 after he was recorded giving a supposedly closed university symposium lectureoutlining a plan to disrupt the markets, destabilize the economy, and use the resultant disenchantment and civil disruptions to discredit capitalism and move the country to a more 'equatable' redistributionist model. His plan, such as it was,was all wishful thinking, unicornsand rainbows, and would never work. No, I don't think Lerner gave away their plans. He gave away their goals.

The biggest mistake the GOP has made and continues to make is believing President Obama and his cronies are somehow within the Democratic Party mainstream tradition. They are emphatically not. They are Marxist ideologues who hate, hate, hate this country's history, its Founders, its first principles. They view the United States as fundamentally flawed, historically a force for imperialism and aggression. They view us, those who oppose their views, we happy, bitterly clinging few, as enemies of the State, not as political opponents.

For them, the big trick is orchestrating an economiccrash and getting away with it, so there needs to bea plausible scapegoat. Enter the hapless, clueless GOP, whose traditional Establishment leadership appears ready--nay, eager--to step into the first trap set on its path. Why? Because Republican elected officials--all of them--cannot allow themselves to see the truth or are afraid to exacerbate already heated domestic tensions. Besides, calling the President a Marxist socialist would mark GOP politicians as Alex Jones conspiracy types and further murder their credibility.

So how to stop the train? I honestly don't know. Breitbart's idea was to go over Obama's background and do the in-depth vetting the MSM wouldn't do and then publicize the findings. That's a good start, I suppose, but think it's too little, too late. We're running out of time.

Posted by: troyriser at January 10, 2013 12:19 PM (vtiE6)

275 This is akin to what I used to do when I drank- I would park halfway between my house and the bar, instead of stopping drinking (or driving).

Posted by: Baldy at January 10, 2013 12:30 PM (opS9C)

276 Perhaps Krugman and the White House are expecting James Cameron's space mining efforts to be more immediately successful--though why any of those three--Krugman, White House, Cameron--should think so is a good question.

Posted by: T. at January 10, 2013 12:47 PM (qFVoe)

277
"The very worst thing about this stupid platinum coin idea is that it's the most practical, results-oriented solution that has so far been suggested for our current problems."


DOOM! We embrace thee!

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 10, 2013 01:04 PM (ma1sf)

278 If you are going to bother reading Business Insider at all, the first thing you need to know is they are Obama shills, through and through.

The second thing to know is that Joe Wiesenthal is a complete idiot with no understanding of economics or monetary policy at all. I unfollowed him on Twitter when he expressed disbelief that the Fed had done anything inflationary via QE or that the trillions of dollars would eventually have to be found somewhere.

Posted by: Adjoran at January 10, 2013 03:22 PM (ZHQvg)

279 So, does this mean I can grab some checkers and silver spray paint, and pay off my credit card bill?

If not, why not?

Posted by: delayna at January 10, 2013 04:46 PM (Vpydg)

280 So, if the "trillion dollar coin" is such a brilliant idea, why not just mint a $100 trillion" coin and never have to worry about a debt ceiling again…

Geeze. I only had a vague unease for the country, now it's a full-fledged fear, if they actually decide to do this stupid thing.

Posted by: CptNerd at January 10, 2013 07:34 PM (Khh6O)

281 A mere 11th-hour attempt to paint a veneer of legitimacy on the outright criminal destruction of the currency that's been underway for a very long time. They'll keep going, more outrageous every day, until they can't.

Posted by: egoist at January 10, 2013 08:50 PM (SShCT)

282 The parallel with Enron is quite brilliant. And it's also worth noting that one of Enron's board members and enablers, Dr. Paul Krugman, is championing the trillion dollar coin as he once championed an indefensible business model that helped bring our economy into a recession.

Seems like Dr. Krugman's attempt to sell us the same prescription of fantasy economics he prescribed for Enron needs to be denounced for the tragic sham that it is.

Are we really going to let ourselves be fooled again by the same clowns that got us into the financial mess we are in now?

Posted by: gyakuzuki at January 10, 2013 09:56 PM (FIoBz)

283 Hey, I have a "washers" game in my garage. Why don't I just go get one of the washers out of it and write "One Trillion Dollars" on one side and draw a picture of my junk on the other side. Just as valid.

Posted by: BruceC at January 10, 2013 10:01 PM (tqJU8)






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