Fiscal Cliff Deal: Obama Takes Less In Revenue In Exchange For Destroying The GOP

It's hard to rundown all the spending/tax hike ramifications since they passed the damn thing at 2am on New Years Day but the politics of the deal are quite clear.

WH tells colleague Ed Henry Obama broke R's tax pledge. Calls it "1 of the most consequential policy achievements of the last couple decades

And what did the GOP get for this? Nothing. In fact, we gave back spending cuts we supposedly won through sequestration. Yes, they say they will "pay" for the delay through unspecified spending cuts and some tax raising gimmicks but the principle of doing anything to avoid actual spending cuts has been set.

And how much did Obama and the Democrats get from this deal? $600 billion in new taxes over 10 years. Obama originally wanted $1.6 trillion over 10 years and Boehner had actually offered $800 billion in revenue so long as it was through tax reform, not hiking rates.

Obama took less revenue just so he could paint the GOP as tax hikers. Even his original position was a joke when it came to dealing with the actual fiscal problems we face.

Mitch McConnell praises the imperfect deal (via email statement):

“The President wanted tax increases, but thanks to this imperfect agreement, 99% of my constituents won’t be hit by those hikes.

“So it took an imperfect solution to prevent our constituents from very real financial pain. But in my view, it was worth the effort. "

No conservative wants to see taxes going up on anyone, especially people struggling in the Obama economy, but by protecting voters from the financial impact of their electoral choices we will simply see ever more demands for larger, not smaller government. Why would anyone support cutting their "free" stuff when it's FREE to them?

I doubt the House GOP has the stones to decline this invitation to sign their own death warrant.

But don't worry guys...we'll get those spending cuts in the debt ceiling deal! This was the key surrender that will catapult us to victory!

Added: Here are the Republicans who voted no.

Mike Lee (R-UT), Richard Shelby (D-AL), Rand Paul (R-KY), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), and Marco Rubio (R-FL).

Some good Senators like Jeff Sessions, Tom Coburn and Ron Johnson who I thought would have known better voted for this. Very disappointing.

Posted by: DrewM. at 10:13 AM



Comments

1 First!! Third party. NOW.

Posted by: Jmel at January 01, 2013 10:15 AM (9tSXa)

2 FIRST!

Posted by: FURPC at January 01, 2013 10:15 AM (0ImZM)

3 FIRST! Also, need names for new party. Conservative party? Maybe Reformist Party? No-Government Party?

Posted by: Mordart at January 01, 2013 10:15 AM (hXX/4)

4
No conservative wants to see taxes going up on anyone, especially people struggling in the Obama economy, but by protecting voters from the financial impact of their electoral choices we will simply see ever more demands for larger, not smaller government.


Why would anyone support cutting their "free" stuff when it's FREE to them?

yes

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:16 AM (nqBYe)

5 Did anyone think this wasn't going to happen?

Posted by: Witchfinder at January 01, 2013 10:16 AM (s/PhC)

6 The Senate is about as useful as tits on a bull and the now we see if the House has balls

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 01, 2013 10:17 AM (jE38p)

7
and is this breaking of one of our premises as Republicans/or conseervativesgoing to fix anything near or long term re :deficits?

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:17 AM (nqBYe)

8 there is one group whose taxes I would like to see go up.
that is the group that currently pays nothing in taxes.
even if the tax rate for them climbs to .5%.

Posted by: VIA, on the tiny keyboard at January 01, 2013 10:18 AM (7h+I1)

9 As long as Boner and Bitch McConnell are in charge, this is the bullshit we can expect.

They might as well be Democrats. To be honest I dont think it would matter right now if Nancy Pelosi was Speaker. The outcome would be the same, but at least Democrats would have to own the results. Now they dont even have to do that.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at January 01, 2013 10:19 AM (++kZl)

10

3rd party

Posted by: beachie at January 01, 2013 10:19 AM (LpQbZ)

11 And what the hell happened to DiT's Bowl Game post? Oh well, off to a good start this New Year already!!

Posted by: Tex Lovera at January 01, 2013 10:19 AM (B8nLv)

12 Congratulations, Boehner! Congratulations, McConnell! I've voted straight ticket Republican for my entire life. Now I'm voting Tea Party, Libertarian or abstaining.

Great job, fellas!

Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:19 AM (0DlnM)

13 I am indifferent. The math takes care of the spending in the end.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:20 AM (QupBk)

14 Bitch McConnell appears to be saying that 99% of his constituents don't pay taxes. Even if that's not true now, it will be at some point over the next four years.

Choom Boy wins again, and accelerates the USA's slide into oblivion, with the aid of the Republicans in Congress. Once again, the Traitor-in-Chief and the "servants of the people" have been handed what appears to be an unlimited checkbook, and even if that is not true they will treat it as such.

Anyone who tries to paint this as any kind of "win" for sanity and fiscal good sense -- or as some sort of political victory for conservatives -- is simply delusional.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 01, 2013 10:20 AM (yKUrR)

15 And who will run for office I this third party? Brave souls who won't run as Republicans but who will now run with a new label?

Posted by: AmishDude at January 01, 2013 10:20 AM (xSegX)

16 It's almost like the Republicans no longer represent me.

Posted by: The sound of battle in the distance at January 01, 2013 10:21 AM (XJ6Zy)

17 Let it burn now applies to the Republican Paty.

Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:21 AM (0DlnM)

18 If I were McConnell I would have passed a law that cut spending, cut taxes, automatically overrode Obama's veto, stripped Mike Castle of his citizenship, impeached Boehner, and gave Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck college degrees, because having a basic secondary education is important too.

If I were in the House I'd vote against this law until every Mexican were deported. We need to show Obama that we're going to fight against him tooth and nail, right up until Jan. 2017.

Posted by: Sharron Akin O'Mourdock at January 01, 2013 10:22 AM (r2PLg)

19 Obama lied--Boehner cried--McConnell looked as if America died.

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 01, 2013 10:22 AM (P3dtw)

20 Obama took less revenue just so he could paint the GOP as tax hikers.

That'll be very important for his next presidential run, or something, huh, Drew.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 01, 2013 10:22 AM (06cUt)

21 Whatever. Spend spend spend spend. Math is a cruel bitch and she will not be denied. There is no way to avoid what is sure to come. Speed it up and Let. It. Burn.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 01, 2013 10:22 AM (jucos)

22 Posted by: Mordart at January 01, 2013 10:15 AM(hXX/4)

Well, there's a Constitution Party and a TEA Party (or was in '08 at least). I'm planning on looking into both.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 01, 2013 10:23 AM (wbeNt)

23 Third Parties have never worked in the entire history of the U.S.

So yeah, let's go there.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 01, 2013 10:23 AM (SeIQF)

24 This was as much of a "win" as Bitch McConnells crappy move on Obama care voting Christmas eve.

This is as much "win" as was packed into the debt ceiling fight that brought us this fiscal cliff bs.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at January 01, 2013 10:24 AM (++kZl)

25 It's almost like y'all are surprised by this. How can anyone still consider themselves a Republican? It's mystifying.

Posted by: palm Beach Pooter Hound at January 01, 2013 10:24 AM (ufLRj)

26 Stop the whining. We knew we had been out played months ago. Someone dig up Lee Atwater, these fucker are such bad poker players they would not be allowed into a game in Vegas

Posted by: Billy Bob, at the cold beach at January 01, 2013 10:25 AM (Cydud)

27 The return to permanent tax rates is in there though, yes? I count that as a minor victory. At least when Barry comes for the middle classes money, which he will surely have to do, it will be an explicit tax increase bill, which the Republicans could vote against.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:25 AM (QupBk)

28 Any of you wacky kids know what #ocra is on Twatter?

Posted by: fluffy at January 01, 2013 10:25 AM (z9HTb)

29 Whoever decided the Bush Tax Cuts expired is who created this tax hike. Please explain what the GOP in Congress can do, allow the tax rates to go up for everyone? Since this bill was signed in 2013 isn't this a tax cut for everyone whose rates it lowers?Can someone explain more on this baseline budget, Did Obambi's Stimuli go into future year budgets and this is the reason Senate has not passed a budget? If this is true how come not being more talked about since this is the driving force of us hitting Debt celing several times a year.

Posted by: MarkyMark at January 01, 2013 10:25 AM (FKfnl)

30 17 Let it burn now applies to the Republican Paty. Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:21 AM (0DlnM)

That, or a hostile takeover.

That's some terminology the GOP with which the GOP nomenklatura will be familiar.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 01, 2013 10:25 AM (SeIQF)

31 I'll be so glad when this is over.

Posted by: Cliff Phiskal at January 01, 2013 10:26 AM (tkoGU)

32 I'll give this to the Democrats. Those fuckers are bold and audacious. They play to win every time. Being a Republican voter is like being a Browns fan--every year it's, "We'll get 'em next year!"

Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:26 AM (0DlnM)

33 Third Parties have never worked in the entire history of the U.S.

Except for the Republican Party itself.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:27 AM (QupBk)

34 Third Parties have never worked in the entire history of the U.S.


*ahem*

Posted by: John C. Fremont at January 01, 2013 10:27 AM (z9HTb)

35 25 Either one party will run this country or the other will. Either consider oyurself a Republican or put the Dems in power. That's how.

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 10:27 AM (XDC0v)

36 21
Whatever. Spend spend spend spend. Math is a cruel bitch and she will
not be denied. There is no way to avoid what is sure to come. Speed it
up and Let. It. Burn.

Yup! Even if (when?) the GOP caves on the debt ceiling... not going to make a difference in the long run. Sure, get authorization to borrow as much money as you want. Get all the politicians, in both parties, to go along with it. But eventually, they won't be able to find anyone willing to loan the money.

Posted by: Petrus at January 01, 2013 10:27 AM (OscGM)

37 What death warrant might that be. It really didn't matter what the Republicans agreed to or not. As long as there is a sycophant press that refuses any truthful representation of Obama's actions a large swath of Americans believe anything he says. Even those who aren't on the freebee list. Republicans are operating in vacuum not just of the media's making but because of their own inadequate ability to communicate to the public. Whether right or wrong they can't even articulate a position that's understandable in a press conference. Even when they bypass the press on the internet their political speak is so boring and non-informative no one pays any attention.

Posted by: Benson II at January 01, 2013 10:28 AM (INsTw)

38 The Republican Party had a large helping of delusion, followed by some vacant-eyed blinking at the assembled media personalities, justprior to being escorted to the gallows. Thier last words were .... huh?

Posted by: and irresolute at January 01, 2013 10:28 AM (DBH1h)

39 Except for the Republican Party itself.

After last night we can consider whether or not the Republican party has actually "worked".

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 01, 2013 10:28 AM (SeIQF)

40 Watching the late news last night, I kept hearing how taxes were going up for every American. And no matter what station I was watching, that was the common wording....."Every American".

And I was thinking, there is one group who this doesn't effect.
That would be the "Free Shit Army", living rent free in our wallets.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 01, 2013 10:28 AM (GBDbf)

41 With the media on their side, there is very little risk for the Dems in consistently swinging for the fences. Until we break the MSM, we will continue to march along the road to serfdom.

Posted by: Popcorn at January 01, 2013 10:28 AM (U6K0J)

42 Winners and losers in the fiscal cliff deal. ”Biden’s entrance into the cliff negotiations over the weekend — after a personal plea from Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell — seemed to serve as a sort of oiling of locked Congressional gears. The press in the wake of the deal (and even in the runup to the final agreement) will focus on the idea of Biden as the closer,

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:29 AM (nqBYe)

43 'Especially people struggling in the Obama economy' is a catch phase.

Who isn't struggling?

Posted by: sTevo at January 01, 2013 10:30 AM (VMcEw)

44 41 Until we break the MSM, we will continue to march along the road to serfdom.

We arrived there about four years ago, buddy. Enjoy your stay. :/

Posted by: Petrus at January 01, 2013 10:31 AM (OscGM)

45 3 FIRST! Also, need names for new party. Conservative party? Maybe Reformist Party? No-Government Party?
Posted by: Mordart at January 01, 2013 10:15 AM (hXX/4)

Lace Whig Party

Posted by: Ends With Prepositions And Fists at January 01, 2013 10:31 AM (LM9t5)

46
Obama’s wrong: This ‘cliff’ deal still raises taxes on the middle class. ”Taxes will rise on the middle class even if this deal passes, because it doesn’t include an extension of the payroll tax holiday. That means that the paychecks for more than 160 million Americans will be 2 percent smaller starting in January, as the payroll tax will jump from 4.2 percent to 6.2 percent.

drew's link

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:31 AM (nqBYe)

47 I called it yesterday: "Drew will tell us all how horrible the deal is"

1) There isn't a promise this thing passes the house. Chances are good, but not certain.

2) Do you really think raising taxes by thousands of dollars per middle-income family is the best thing for the country?

3)Do you think a winning platform for the republicans in 2014 will be "We let YOUR taxes go up, because we didn't want JUST the rich to pay more!"

4) The FSA, for the most part, is the group of Americans that pays no federal income tax. Neither making this deal nor killing it will affect thier paychecks. The really rich in the country almost to a man voted for Obama. They want higher taxes. Let them have 'em.

If the deal dies, Gabe will be by telling us all how this is the worst possible thing for the country.

Posted by: mrshad at January 01, 2013 10:31 AM (0yAqu)

48 I see alot of brave "If I were in the Senate I would have" comments ... see ... the thing is you aren't in the Senate, in fact you haven't run for shit in your life and simply like to complain about the folks who did run and win ...

sure its a crap sandwich, what did you expect would happen with Obamas re-election ?

Grow up with the all or nothing nonsense ... survive to fight another day ... you don't care right ?

mainly because you don't have a plan forward other than FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT ... well someone has to actually fight, it won't actually be you fighting but someone should FIGHT right ?

Posted by: JeffC at January 01, 2013 10:32 AM (dtOe6)

49 If the Tea Partiers in the House hold the line like they have been, the bill is dead. I hope they do. Mark Levin's listeners crashed the phone lines to the Capitol last week and then resorted to e-mail to kill Boehner's Plan B.

Posted by: Jmel at January 01, 2013 10:32 AM (9tSXa)

50 We just hit the debt ceiling. ”On top of everything else, the United States officially hits its debt ceiling today, starting a countdown clock that ends in a cash management crisis in a matter of weeks…Right now, the Treasury is undertaking ‘extraordinary measures’ to give the government enough breathing room to pay all of its bills. But such measures buy Washington only so much time. In February or March, the Treasury secretary would need to decide which payments to delay or default on.” Annie Lowrey

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:32 AM (nqBYe)

51 I know it's too much to hope, that with the new year, the House GOP found a new pair of balls. I am filled with loathing for the whole lot of them.

Posted by: no good deed at January 01, 2013 10:32 AM (mjR67)

52 *ahem*Posted by: John C. Fremont at January 01, 2013 10:27 AM (z9HTb)

I stand corrected.

The record for third parties in the U.S. is 1-17

This time will be different!



From the bottom up....build up from States to national level. We're doing OK at the state level. Expand that and take over the national infrastructure. Giving in to the third party fad is a recipe for another 50 years in the wilderness.

Only there won't be anything left by then.

Fuck Rove and everyone like him.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 01, 2013 10:32 AM (SeIQF)

53 The GOP is a hopeless pile of junk and its end can not come soon enough.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 10:33 AM (EWsrI)

54 No one is lending the US money. It is Kabuki theater where the Fed buys the bonds that no one else (in their right minds anyway) will buy. This 3 card Monty scheme is working as the gullible dumb masses don't know what's going on. We are dooming our kids to a life of slavery. We should be sued for generational abuse.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 01, 2013 10:33 AM (jucos)

55 The press in the wake of the deal (and even in the runup to the final agreement) will focus on the idea of Biden as the closer,

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:29 AM (nqBYe)


How fucking ignorant is that when you have a blithering shit-eating retard portrayed as the hero.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at January 01, 2013 10:34 AM (Ccb4s)

56 Hey obama already announced he is coming back for more taxes yesterday

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 01, 2013 10:34 AM (jE38p)

57 I have voted Republican for the last time. Let it burn begins with the GOP

Posted by: Sam in VA at January 01, 2013 10:34 AM (YCvRs)

58 I still think the Federal government is broke and broken. If we have a hope at all, it will be with a 10th Amendment state government movement.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:34 AM (QupBk)

59 From the last thread.......

Just wait until the REAL fight.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 10:34 AM (piMMO)

60
Captain Hate,

inexplicable.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:35 AM (nqBYe)

61
From the roll call:

NAYs 8

Bennet (D-CO)
Carper (D-DE)
Grassley (R-IA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Lee (R-UT)
Paul (R-KY)
Rubio (R-FL)
Shelby (R-AL)

Not Voting - 3

DeMint (R-SC)
Kirk (R-IL)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)


Well, at least Rubio isn't a complete idiot. He keeps his fingerprints off this disaster.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 10:35 AM (kdS6q)

62 58 I still think the Federal government is broke and broken. If we have a hope at all, it will be with a 10th Amendment state government movement.

^^^^THIS

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 01, 2013 10:35 AM (SeIQF)

63 I disagree, we all complain about this "Tax Collector for the Welfare State" bullcrap, but this may actually be the solution. Lets just abolish all taxes for everyone under $250,000. We should even get rid of payroll taxes for Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, etc...

We can just order the Fed to print money to pay for it. After all this is ultimately what Krugman et al are asking for. Let's give it to them. It will last or maybe three, four months tops, and then the welfare state, fiat money, the Democratic Paety will all be extinct. We talk about "starving the beast" well let's actually just do it!

Posted by: Roy at January 01, 2013 10:36 AM (EuD1c)

64 Rand Paul:

Congrats for "sticking it to the rich people."

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 10:36 AM (piMMO)

65 53
The GOP is a hopeless pile of junk and its end can not come soon enough.

57
I have voted Republican for the last time. Let it burn begins with the GOP

I'm sure Dear Leader appreciates your support.

Posted by: Petrus at January 01, 2013 10:37 AM (OscGM)

66 Let it burn. Throws another log on the fire.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at January 01, 2013 10:37 AM (iA9kP)

67 Time to primary every shithead that voted for this.

Posted by: Witchfinder at January 01, 2013 10:37 AM (s/PhC)

68 "I doubt the House GOP has the stones to decline this invitation to sign their own death warrant."

You don't just need the House GOP to have the stone not to sign it. Since the Dems are going to vote for it, you would need over ~80% of them to vote against it for it not to pass--which is why once Plan B was rejected, it was likely that the final deal would be much worse.

I don't like this, but I'll reserve judgement until I find out what ultimately happens with the sequestration cuts. No, I'm not willing to bet a cent those won't be revoked, but two months is a short enough time for me to wait.

Even allowing the taxes to increase wouldn't give the public a full picture of what's needed because that would, at best, take care of 10% of the deficit and until somebody is going to explain to them that spending is the problem it's not even clear they'd learn the right lesson from it.

All the legislative fights are academic until someone explains to the public that spending is increasing much faster than revenue and that this is the reason for the deficit. At that point, there will be the public support to intimidate our guys into doing the right thing. Until then, good luck making that happen.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 10:37 AM (wxX5N)

69 Some state needs to secede in place. Don't take federal money, don't enforce federal mandates, don't assist the feds in anything. Suck up and pay your taxes, since you can't avoid it, but free business in the state to prosper.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:38 AM (QupBk)

70 We can just order the Fed to print money to pay for it. After all this is ultimately what Krugman et al are asking for. Let's give it to them.

......


He was so versatile. I loved him in Quincy.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 10:38 AM (piMMO)

71 I sort of miss the old Lace Whig spam. Newbies don't remember it. Ace has just gotten to good at getting rid of the stuff

Posted by: Billy Bob, at the cold beach at January 01, 2013 10:38 AM (Cydud)

72 Only the president can pose these questions in a way that starts a national conversation over the choices to be made, but doing so requires the president to tell people things they don’t want to hear. That’s his job: to help Americans face unavoidable, if unpleasant, realities. Barack Obama has refused to play this role. Instead, he has cast the long-term budget problem as a question of whether the richest 1 percent or 2 percent of the population should pay more in taxes.” Robert J. Samuelson in TheWashingotn Post

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:38 AM (nqBYe)

73 I dont know what to think and I am beyond giving a shit anymore. We will crash eventually.
America voted for more taxes... give it to them.
Wish R;s would have gotten more spending cuts.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 01, 2013 10:39 AM (DGIjM)

74 67 Time to primary every shithead that voted for this.

......

I will not forget Rand or Rubio for taking a stand.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 10:39 AM (piMMO)

75 I quit the GOP last year, after they lost the most winnable Presidential election in a generation. Fuck 'em all, let it burn.

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 01, 2013 10:39 AM (8sCoq)

76 "Except for the Republican Party itself."

Not exactly. There was no second party in 1856: the Whigs had dissolved, and leaving only the Democrats - i.e., the party of slavery - on the national scene. The Republicans didn't replace an existing party, they filled a vacuum.

Of course, we saw how gracefully the Democrats accepted Lincoln's electoral victory in 1860.

Posted by: Brown Line at January 01, 2013 10:39 AM (6d08e)

77 Lautenberg (D-NJ)


Well, at least Rubio isn't a complete idiot. He keeps his fingerprints off this disaster.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 10:35 AM (kdS6q)


Lautenberg, still dead

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 01, 2013 10:40 AM (jE38p)

78 [All the legislative fights are academic until someone explains to the
public that spending is increasing much faster than revenue]

It's almost as if that's what the Republican leadership should be doing, huh?


Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:40 AM (0DlnM)

79 The return to permanent tax rates is in there though, yes? I count that as a minor victory. At least when Barry comes for the middle classes money, which he will surely have to do, it will be an explicit tax increase bill, which the Republicans could vote against.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:25 AM (QupBk)



The JEF has been chipping away at the middle class for four years, and they haven't noticed. Fees, penalties, regulatory hits are spread throughout the middle class, and will increase due to obamacare, and all the rest of the sh*t they will dish up over the next four years.

What hasn't gone up in the past four years?

Posted by: beachie at January 01, 2013 10:40 AM (LpQbZ)

80 @63

Ah, a newbie.

Welcome, genius.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 10:40 AM (EWsrI)

81 The suggestion that we have avoided the cliff is laughable. We went over 4 years ago. The falling part is painless...

"Its not the fall that kills you...."

Posted by: some dope at January 01, 2013 10:41 AM (+kznc)

82 alright, I'm out. Today is all about football. Turning this laptop off and hiding it under the couch for the rest of the day.

Y'all be cool.

Posted by: Jones in CO at January 01, 2013 10:42 AM (8sCoq)

83 57 Another vote for the Dems!!!

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (XDC0v)

84 Jesus, people, get ahold of yourselves.

You know what the GOP got out of this? They got to avoid taking the blame for going over the fiscal cliff. And make no mistake, that's how it would have gone down. ("The Republicans are raising your taxes to protect millionaires.") That - not a broken tax pledge - would have been the end of the GOP.

Obama got what he wants. He owns it. And when the economy continues to struggle, it's on him.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (c9JbB)

85 How come all today's bowl games are at the same time?

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (QupBk)

86 Yawn. The whole thing is Kabuki theatre -- or is that Bukkake -- I get the two confused. But here's my take...

The tax cuts are now permanent. Better for long range planning of families. No new source of revenue for the government to spend. May actually get the economy to kick into gear a little.

The higher tax rates on the rich will hardly garner any new revenue, because they didn't get rich by being dumb. They'll find some way around them. No new source of revenue for the government to spend.

Spending cuts with a Democrat Senate and WH? Don't make me laugh.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (feFL6)

87 This whole process was a sham anyway. Public policy should be debated PUBLICLY, not behind closed doors in secret sessions.

Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (0DlnM)

88 4) The FSA, for the most part, is the group of Americans that pays no federal income tax.

Even with your qualifier, I'm compelled to say that not everyone who pays no income tax is enlisted in the FSA. I don't pay because my career doesn't really pay jack squat (and that's no one's fault but my own). I'm not on any government program, and I don't want to be. The refund and the EITC I get in the spring pay for things I can't afford any other time of the year, like new tires, doctor exams, eyeglasses, and clothes for a growing teen...and I still feel gulity for taking it.

I'd give that extra money up if it means saving the country.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (5J54Q)

89 No matter. Hillary's reset button is about to be pressed on the global economy. Everyone saying math rules has the right idea. Just guessing that the historians will look back on the Dems and the idiot tax-free classes as the corrupt looters and the Reps as the party of inept fellow travelers. The conservatives and tea party libertarian factions are going to look like the friggin Oracle at Delphi. Remember how fabulous the twenties started out? We passed that high point years ago.
My feeling is that things are going to get so bad within the next five years that some of our most familiar clowns, including the Clown in Chief, will end up living in self-imposed seclusion or exile after the dust settles.

Speaking of Hillary---I have a bad feeling about this. Even it's one of the best Clinton whoppers of all time or she's on the run? Dunno.

Posted by: farmersusie at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (9zugO)

90
opposed the bill:8

Democratic Senators Tom Carper (D-DE), Tom Harkin (D-IA), and Michael Bennet (D-CO) along with Republican Senators Mike Lee (R-UT), Richard Shelby (D-AL), Rand Paul (R-KY), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), and Marco Rubio (R-FL). The House is expected to vote on the bill in the next few days.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:43 AM (nqBYe)

91 sorry 9 opposed

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 10:44 AM (nqBYe)

92 @jamiedupree: VP Biden to meet with House Dems just after 12 noon; GOP members to meet at 1pm on fiscal cliff deal

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 01, 2013 10:44 AM (piMMO)

93 Long game, guys. When things fall further to shit, the Republicans can say "we made a deal with the President when he wanted us to; this is all him."

You think it was an accident that Rand Paul and Marco Rubio voted no (to maintain their separateness from this shit), when it was obvious that the greater portion of the Republican Senators were brought onboard, and in great enough numbers to give credit to the whole caucus?

Destroying the GOP. Jesus.

Posted by: Dawnfire at January 01, 2013 10:44 AM (DTaNR)

94 75 Another vote for the Dems!!!

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 10:45 AM (XDC0v)

95 Another coup for the progs, this has all been a set up to take back the House in 2014. No matter if Boehner gets this passed or not, the outcome will be used to smear the Rs to their constituencies. They have already been successful in painting TEA party supporters as a bunch of nuts, as they have NRA.

Posted by: Museisluse at January 01, 2013 10:46 AM (r4IBD)

96 Taxes up.

Spending up.

Debt up.

Fun!

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 10:46 AM (EWsrI)

97 I'd be less skeptical of Clinton if she didn't have a history of "forgetting" key Rose Law Firm/Whitewater details and "losing" various records that just happened to turn up on White House end tables after the heat had passed.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 01, 2013 10:46 AM (tkoGU)

98 Isn't this deal more or less like the plan B offer? A little more wide ranging but isn't the tax on the top 2% about the same?

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:46 AM (QupBk)

99
BTW - the bill is a another christmas tree. A sample:

H.R.8 -- American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 (Engrossed Amendment Senate - EAS)


SEC. 304. EXTENSION OF INDIAN EMPLOYMENT TAX CREDIT.

SEC. 306. EXTENSION OF RAILROAD TRACK MAINTENANCE CREDIT.

SEC. 307. EXTENSION OF MINE RESCUE TEAM TRAINING CREDIT.

SEC. 312. EXTENSION OF 7-YEAR RECOVERY PERIOD FOR MOTORSPORTS ENTERTAINMENT COMPLEXES.

SEC. 328. EXTENSION OF TAX-EXEMPT FINANCING FOR NEW YORK LIBERTY ZONE.

SEC. 329. EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY INCREASE IN LIMIT ON COVER OVER OF RUM EXCISE TAXES TO PUERTO RICO AND THE VIRGIN ISLANDS.

SEC. 330. MODIFICATION AND EXTENSION OF AMERICAN SAMOA ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CREDIT.

SEC. 410. EXTENSION AND MODIFICATION OF SPECIAL ALLOWANCE FOR CELLULOSIC BIOFUEL PLANT PROPERTY.

And scores more....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 10:47 AM (kdS6q)

100

I called it yesterday: "Drew will tell us all how horrible the deal is"

...

If the deal dies, Gabe will be by telling us all how this is the worst possible thing for the country.

Posted by: mrshad at January 01, 2013 10:31 AM (0yAqu)




Good cop; bad cop is a fun game!

Posted by: beachie at January 01, 2013 10:47 AM (LpQbZ)

101
National Enquirer has it that Hillary suffers from a brain tumor and it has been kept hush hush.

Posted by: Justamom at January 01, 2013 10:48 AM (Sptt8)

102 78 [All the legislative fights are academic until someone explains to the
public that spending is increasing much faster than revenue]

It's almost as if that's what the Republican leadership should be doing, huh?


Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:40 AM (0DlnM)


Absolutely agree. Anybody in a position to do that in our leadership who isn't doing that is a f'king idiot.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 10:48 AM (wxX5N)

103 Ever notice that Dems don't threaten to leave the party if they don't get what they want this time? Why is that?

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 10:49 AM (XDC0v)

104 The old GOP vs. Democrats game is over for me.

Nothing can stop the runaway math train now.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 10:50 AM (EWsrI)

105
Absolutely agree. Anybody in a position to do that in our leadership who isn't doing that is a f'king idiot.

That would be just about all of them.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 01, 2013 10:50 AM (yiIja)

106 Just to lighten the mood a little:

@ExtraGrumpyCat Justin Bieber looked kinda jealous when the ball dropped last night.

Posted by: Retread at January 01, 2013 10:50 AM (zxitI)

107 National Enquirer has it that Hillary suffers from a brain tumor and it has been kept hush hush.
Posted by: Justamom at January 01, 2013 10:48 AM (Sptt

??? I thought her plane crashed in Iran?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 01, 2013 10:51 AM (jE38p)

108
Here is the part that I don't get,* the dems run the senate, why the hell did any repubs vote for it?

*actually I do get it, few of the repubs are not conservatives, but I was making a point that they can't even play the game. and we are a game to them.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:51 AM (69Mdf)

109 105 How would you know whether they did or not? Because the MSM reported it?

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 10:51 AM (XDC0v)

110 I want a thread to congratulate young Boyd and Clemson for a helluva game last night, and to laugh at Les Miles continuing problems with clock management.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 10:51 AM (QupBk)

111 People out there who don't follow politics actually think Democrats are for low taxes and low spending. They think Bill Clinton's tax rates are what passed.

I wanted higher taxes - people need to know what they voted for. I was willing for my taxes to go up so I could tell off every Obama voter when they cried about tax increases.

We complain about the media - but what does the media actually do? It convinces fiscally conservative people with common sense that its the democrats who are fighting for them. I can try and explain to them everything, but it's easier to show them when their tax rates explode. Jon Stewart sure as hell aint going to do it.

Posted by: Reality Man at January 01, 2013 10:52 AM (L2x1w)

112
All the legislative fights are academic until someone explains to
the public that spending is increasing much faster than revenue and that
this is the reason for the deficit.
Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 10:37 AM (wxX5N)


No, AD, everyone knows perfectly well what the problem is and they also know perfectly well it will end in the destruction of the country. The problem is, nobody wants to give up what they have. Don't want to give up their shit. Half the commentors on this blog make that perfectly clear. That combined with the administrations explicit threat that they will take from you what you hold dear if you fail to go along and you have what we have.
A cowed populace without meaningful representation. I have fucking lloyd doggett. You think I have a voice in Congress?

Posted by: Ralph Pigford at January 01, 2013 10:52 AM (fDGF1)

113 Ugh. Just to test the statements about third replacement parties in US politics, I decided to check what the actual turnover rate had been. Turns out the only real changes have been on (theoretically) our side of the ledger.

Oh well. The flames will burn red and blue alike, and I am now beyond caring. At least we can try to make things a bit less miserable for our own in the meantime...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 01, 2013 10:52 AM (mbxHg)

114 ".... but thanks to this imperfect agreement, 99% of my constituents won’t be hit by those hikes."

But 99% of their descendants will live in work camps, ghettos or caves.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at January 01, 2013 10:52 AM (BAnPT)

115 93
Long game, guys.

We've been getting our asses kicked in the long game.

Here's my biggest bitch: The GOP missed yet another opportunity to beat the shit out of this lying fuck by neglecting to bring up all his campain promises.

Obama lectured Romney in front of America about not accepting 3 dollars in cuts for 1 dollar in new "revenue." So why wasn't the GOP leadership bringing this up at every single press conference. 3:1, that's what Obama promised. And as he reminds us daily, HE WON.

So where are his spending cuts?

Over and over they should have repeated this. "We're waiting on the spending cuts President Obama promised during his campaign."

And for good measure, the could have brought up his 1st term promise do halve the deficit in 4 years.

But they didn't do ANY of that. Nor were they out there demonstrating why this out of control spending is a disaster in the making.

They let the SCOAMF win the rhetorical war again. It's infuriating. They don't even fight.


Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:53 AM (0DlnM)

116 Okay, folks, I am no more happy about this than you are, but let's take our beatings like men. We must smply endure with discipline, for we have no other choice.

But don't ever forget this. Ever. When the moment comes, be ready.

Posted by: A. at January 01, 2013 10:53 AM (ms4kd)

117 @103

They are fanatics.

Feh.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 10:53 AM (EWsrI)

118 And who thinks this will not depress Republican turnout in 2014?

Posted by: Decaf at January 01, 2013 10:54 AM (TJQ3a)

119
Few of the repubs ARE conservatives I meant. heh, first screw up of 13...there will be many more.

Happy enjoy your freedom and your property while you can Year, morons.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 10:54 AM (69Mdf)

120
Here's one tiny little factoid that no Pubbie dares mention: we have a spending problem and it's a product of the Dims control of Congress and the WH that began in 2009. A simple graph of the deficits of the past 6 years bears this out and also serves to refute the Dim lie that Booooosh caused all this.

Why no one in DC is capable of mouthing these very simple words is a mystery to me.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 01, 2013 10:54 AM (yiIja)

121
SEC. 202. EXTENSION OF EXCLUSION FROM GROSS INCOME OF DISCHARGE OF QUALIFIED PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE INDEBTEDNESS.



Hey sweet, you still won't have to pay tax when you default on your mortgage. That'll teach people responsible borrowing.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 10:56 AM (kdS6q)

122 You won't find a bigger h8ater of Congress than me. But I am not certain what choice they had. That is, realistic choice which would pass.

The President was getting tax increase not matter what. Remember that, because voters will also. Ditto the Democrats who voted with him.

Remember this will also be a different fiscal landscape in four years. Very different.

We could have let taxes go up for everyone by going over the cliff. Was that a better choice? I am frankly not certain. Ballsy call was to let that happen. The President made it clear he wanted tax hikes. Do you really think citizens facing huge increase would buy the "Republicans sold you down the river for the rich" stuff? Sounds like weak beer to me.

Preserving permanent tax rates for this segment of the population is a good thing. We can fix some of the inequity if tax reform is undertaken.

The big issue waiting to drop is spending. Democrats and Obama can pat themselves on the back and smoke cigars. But spending is going to bite them in the ass. There is not enough tax money to cover their spending and they know it. Add to that we will get another debt downgrade and the economy is going nowhere.

Obama sold this as a fix to all our problems. Fine, now we all get to sit back and see how nothing gets better economically.

Posted by: marcus at January 01, 2013 10:56 AM (aATlM)

123 This is time to tell the Tea Party Congressman to stand fast and let the Dems and RINOS go for it. The roots of a new party are already in the Congress. Maybe we can continue to purge the quislings later.

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 01, 2013 10:56 AM (6H6FZ)

124 5 Did anyone think this wasn't going to happen?
Posted by: Witchfinder at January 01, 2013 10:16 AM (s/PhC)

End of thread.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 74% more DOOM! at January 01, 2013 10:57 AM (FsUAO)

125 >>>"With the media on their side, there is very little risk for the Dems in consistently swinging for the fences. Until we break the MSM, we will continue to march along the road to serfdom."

...Yeah... you're right.. Uh-oh... it's almost kick-off time on NBC - gotta go!

Posted by: Typical moron at January 01, 2013 10:57 AM (cVYiZ)

126
And who thinks this will not depress Republican turnout in 2014?
Posted by: Decaf



Aww -- come on. Worked like a charm in '92.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 10:57 AM (kdS6q)

127 Depressing kick off to the new year. One can only hope that the house chokes on this and can't pass anything.

Expecting Boehner to grow a spine at this point is probably only a fantasy.

Wishin' it would burn, but these idiots don't how to start a fire.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 01, 2013 10:58 AM (n8LUb)

128 We should vote GOP why exactly?

The proper ploy would have been to make a stand using the lack of a budget as a spear point.

Extend current tax rates until there is a budget.

Minor extension of debt ceiling until their is a budget.

Budget must be equal or less than last years revenues.

Then tell the DNC, the media which really is the DNC, and the rabble to f off.

But it is so hard to take a stand and fight when

1. You don't believe the principles you espouse.
2. You have no balls.

Posted by: ALL_IS_LOST at January 01, 2013 10:59 AM (T/L2Z)

129 If you got t Huffo, the comments there are a mirror image of the ones here....Obaam blew it, Obama sucks, Obama caved to the evil Tea Party lunatics, etc.

These people are beyond fucking delusional.

Or are we?

Who the fuck knows anymore.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 01, 2013 10:59 AM (HDgX3)

130 These people are beyond fucking delusional.

Or are we?

Who the fuck knows anymore.


I know.

Posted by: Compound Interest at January 01, 2013 11:00 AM (QupBk)

131 People have been saying "purge the RINOs" since 2008. If this passes this with a coalition of Dems and Moderate Republicans, primary every last motherfucker and let's get on with it. We lost two years listening to that "Romney is electable" horseshit. This is no surprise. The answers have been known for a long time. What is lacking is the balls to step up and kick the asses that need kicking.

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 01, 2013 11:01 AM (6H6FZ)

132 The reality is that to get anything done, they have to compromise. The Dems twisted some arms and used the public tax trough to pay for their own way. In the coming weeks and months, while the economy circles the drain under a heavy load of taxes, we should be making a point to remind everyone how this happened.

If this continues long enough, maybe we can make Democrat Party a disgusting epithet.

Posted by: Gork at January 01, 2013 11:02 AM (jxDi4)

133 Funny, I thought that all taxing and spending bills originated in the House not the Senate

Posted by: US Constitution at January 01, 2013 11:03 AM (3+35n)

134 Why the hell are conservatives voting republican again? I really don't see the point anymore.

Posted by: Some Asshole at January 01, 2013 11:03 AM (voJ4L)

135
Math is Coming.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 11:03 AM (69Mdf)

136 120 Here's one tiny little factoid that no Pubbie dares mention: we have a spending problem and it's a product of the Dims control of Congress and the WH that began in 2009. A simple graph of the deficits of the past 6 years bears this out and also serves to refute the Dim lie that Booooosh caused all this.

http://bit.ly/VgT9hy

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 11:03 AM (YjDyJ)

137 Just let it burn faster. We all know this is going to come to an end and in a bad way. The federal reserve can only keep up its money printing for so long. And with rates so low, there really is nothing further rate wise the Fed can do. So of course they are now directly printing money to buy american debt.

and with additional 50-60 billion in extracted monies per year, how much will actually be lost in real growth, the extracted monies is a one time extraction, those people will not be investing, growing the economy. My business would have one hit by this 450k+ tax increase, fortunately I sold it all, and the next owner has now shut it down. I did my best to grow jobs, save jobs, there is no point anymore, Barry and his socialist dems want americans to work harder, so they can extract more money to spread it around. Why the hell would any small business owner work harder so he has to give more to Barry's stash.

And after seeing yesterday's presser stunt, people cheering higher taxes, maybe next time, they'll have a guillotine there at the next press conference, like the french did in their revolution, and they can all cheer how big bad Barry is going to go get those "evil" "rich" people!

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 11:04 AM (3Kxux)

138 Math bows to no man and no thing.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 11:04 AM (EWsrI)

139 54


...We are dooming our kids to a life of slavery....



Posted by: Truck Monkey

"Reparations do not go far enough" - Obamao

Posted by: Obamao at January 01, 2013 11:05 AM (JtyGg)

140 Okay, who goes to the hospital for a "routine" MRI weeks after a concussion when she didn't go to the hospital immediately after the alleged fall/concussion? Wasn't she just partying down in various global capitols earlier this year? I think she intends to never testify or is being threatened if she does, maybe both. She's also staying well the hell away from DC. Has anyone seen Bill in public during this time? The Clintons really are the most astute liars in politics.

Posted by: farmersusie at January 01, 2013 11:07 AM (9zugO)

141 Morons have at least a 4 year bad record of prediction on the economy. Hey maybe this year they will be right

Posted by: occam at January 01, 2013 11:07 AM (Zofe/)

142 Move to a red State.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 11:07 AM (EWsrI)

143 So why wasn't the GOP leadership bringing this up at every single press conference.

You would think that if the 'leadership' is a bit under the weather their staffers would have talking points prepared for them.

Do Republicans even have any staffers?

Posted by: Decaf at January 01, 2013 11:08 AM (TJQ3a)

144 TFG and Reid were busy giving each other pats on the back. Then reality showed up - https://www.rinkya.com/new/en/auction-f117242898

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:08 AM (fx1PU)

145 Republicans are idiots.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:08 AM (bb5+k)

146 Morons have at least a 4 year bad record of prediction on the economy.

Idiot. We are exactly where we expected to be. High unemployment, high borrowing and low tax revenue.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 11:08 AM (QupBk)

147 toby928, methinks he needs a whetstone for his wit.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:09 AM (fx1PU)

148 The headline on this thread is misleading.

Does anyone really believe Choom Boy is "taking less revenue?" Yes, that may be so TODAY and for the next few weeks, but he'll be back asking for more "fees" and more taxes in future. Bet on it.

Maybe the actual basic tax rates won't go up (though I don't think so), but both the president and Congress have shown themselves capable of extorting more money from us in many other ways. They won't stop now.

The eunuchs and traitors in DC are addicts. They have to have their perks and pork, and they have seen that Americans will do nothing to stop them.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 01, 2013 11:10 AM (yKUrR)

149 "No, AD, everyone knows perfectly well what the problem is and they also know perfectly well it will end in the destruction of the country."

I just really don't think they do.

For instance, the Dems often tout polls showing the public wants to increase taxes on rich people. When you do further polling, though, very few people know the tax rates the top 1%, 10%, etc. pay. In fact, the tax rates most people want them to pay is significantly less than what they're paying right now.

When it comes to spending, the facts that spending is increasing faster than revenue, that entitlements make up as much of spending as they do, that if you entirely eliminated the department of defense it would take care of barely half the deficit, that if we were spending the same amount as we were in the late 90s (even adjusted for inflation) we'd have a surplus even now--are all news to literally every single Democrat I have ever argued about this with, online or in person (as you can tell, I'm a hit at parties with this stuff). They never have a good answer for it and shut up pretty quickly.

If anybody on our side was doing their job, this stuff would not be news to them.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 11:10 AM (wxX5N)

150 The GOP reminds me of people on Survivor who can't play the fucking game.

Posted by: CDR M at January 01, 2013 11:11 AM (dKV5k)

151
Team Republican is praising the deal:

The vote once again shows that right-wing bullies like the Heritage Action Fund that threatened to “score” the vote (i.e., give lawmakers a demerit and set them up for primary challenges) are powerless in the face of real-world choices. It was this very group that no doubt made the final deal worse by nixing the $1 million threshold in the House, thereby taking the House out of the mix. My, the throw-them-out crowd will need to primary nearly the entire Senate conference (all but five of those voting approved the plan). Good luck with that one.

Jennifer Rubin - Wapo Conservative Columnist

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 11:11 AM (kdS6q)

152 As long as Boner and Bitch McConnell are in charge, this is the bullshit we can expect.



They might as well be Democrats. To be honest I dont think it would
matter right now if Nancy Pelosi was Speaker. The outcome would be the
same, but at least Democrats would have to own the results. Now they
dont even have to do that.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at January 01, 2013 10:19 AM (++kZl)


I agree. A Republican that won't stick to the principals of their Party is FAR WORSE than a Democrat. I would RATHER have a Liberal Democrat than a back stabbing Republican.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:11 AM (bb5+k)

153 142
Move to a red State.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 11:07 AM (EWsrI)

______________
Actually I'd say move to a purplish/blue state. Your vote will count more in Ohio or Virginia than in Wyoming. If we could get start a movement where cons in deep red states move to purple states, that would be the ideal thing. Wouldn't take much either. 50K people from TX to VA. 50K people from Georgia to FL. 50K from Utah to CO.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 01, 2013 11:11 AM (HDgX3)

154 The USA cooked its dick in a waffle iron and is surprised the pain is so, painful.

LIB

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 11:11 AM (EWsrI)

155 "We complain about the media - but what does the
media actually do? It convinces fiscally conservative people with
common sense that its the democrats who are fighting for them. I can
try and explain to them everything, but it's easier to show them when
their tax rates explode. Jon Stewart sure as hell aint going to do it.

Posted by: Reality Man at January 01, 2013 10:52 AM (L2x1w)"
One actual tax hike is worth a thousand editorials about tax hikes.
I agree, let these motherfucking freeloaders start to pay for some of the shit they consume.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 11:12 AM (eP0u9)

156
2 am. These fuckers live high on the hog all year long, never doing a damn thing, but oh to screw the republic one more time they'll get out of their lazy boyz at 2 in the fucking morning scattering around like rats in a sewer. ON JAN 1, no less.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 11:12 AM (69Mdf)

157 >>and they have seen that Americans will do nothing to stop them.
---
Which non-violent means do you recommend?

My strongly worded letters don't seem to get thru.

Posted by: sTevo at January 01, 2013 11:12 AM (VMcEw)

158
Idiot. We are exactly where we expected to be. High unemployment, high borrowing and low tax revenue.

Don't forget high inflation, a stagnant economy, and record high energy prices. Also, runaway regulation that's crippling economic growth.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 01, 2013 11:12 AM (yiIja)

159 I don't think it is a smart move to sit and wait for the relentless Math to force a usable crisis. European events show that they can kick the can down the road indefinitely because all of them can and will agree to pretend reality is something other than it is so they can keep the game alive and keep milking the public.

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 01, 2013 11:13 AM (6H6FZ)

160
I'm not knowledgable on the stock market.

why does it seem to not be affected?

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:13 AM (nqBYe)

161

Whatever. MY taxes aren't going up. What time is Dancing with the Stars on? Or Jersey Shore? And the Kardashians? But don't you dare touch my guns. Hillary! 2016

Posted by: Typical American voter at January 01, 2013 11:13 AM (u3N3z)

162
Senator Marco Rubio of Florida says the Senate’s fiscal-cliff compromise, which passed the upper chamber early Tuesday, was a political mistake.

“I just couldn’t vote for it,” Rubio told reporters. “I ran, just two years ago, on the idea that I wanted to be part of solving the long-term problems this country faces. Time and again, we’re given choices here that don’t involve that.”

“The real fiscal cliff is still there,” he said. “We’ll be back here again. In March, we’ll have a showdown like this all over again.”




Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 11:14 AM (kdS6q)

163 If anybody on our side was doing their job, this stuff would not be news to them.

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 11:10 AM (wxX5N)


This is not completely fair. Every piece of news that gets broadcast must go through the filter of a New York Hired Liberal Democrat Union member. They simply don't let stuff get on the air that hurts their side.

Republicans should have bought a network years ago, Fired everyone who is Liberal, and then used that network to get their message out around the filter of the other networks. Isn't that how it used to be done with newspapers?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:14 AM (bb5+k)

164 You know who has been the best prognosticator through this? Vic.

He has always said that it would be a repeat of FDR and the GD. The Democrats would crash the economy, then get reelected and double down for another crash.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 11:15 AM (QupBk)

165 @153

Yes, better. Also move from blue States to purple and red ones.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 11:15 AM (EWsrI)

166
WTF my taxes went up......oh shit Obamacare taxes, holy crap....I blame repulicans.

Posted by: Typical American voter in 3 months. at January 01, 2013 11:16 AM (69Mdf)

167 OT and to cheer people up. A little bit of green for the new year.
http://tinyurl.com/apddu44

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:17 AM (fx1PU)

168 One actual tax hike is worth a thousand editorials about tax hikes.
I agree, let these motherfucking freeloaders start to pay for some of the shit they consume.


Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 11:12 AM (eP0u9)


And this is the actual benefit of letting us go to sequestration. People will get a real taste of what Democrats in power mean. The nation badly needs this lesson. Our side cheated the nation out of what it needed to correct it's behavior.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:18 AM (bb5+k)

169 I constantly complain about media bias and then I complain about not hearing what Republicans are saying in their press conferences, never putting the two together, 'cuz I just lurve complaining

Posted by: Typical AoS pundit at January 01, 2013 11:18 AM (XDC0v)

170 Ette with interest rates so low, those with savings have to invest in the market to try and keep pace with inflation. Essentially, the government is forcing savers into risky assets since savings rates, CD's, etc are next to zero.

Posted by: CDR M at January 01, 2013 11:18 AM (dKV5k)

171 Never forget that on January 4th 2007, the day Pelosi became Speaker of the Democratically controlled 110th Congress, that the national unemployment rate was 4.5%, the Federal Budget Deficit was $247.7 billion and the GDP was growing at 3.4% annually.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at January 01, 2013 11:19 AM (QupBk)

172 152 "I would RATHER have a Liberal Democrat than a back stabbing Republican. " And America has granted your explicit wish. You should be happiest of all!!!

Posted by: Typical AoS pundit at January 01, 2013 11:19 AM (XDC0v)

173 CDR M, i see, thank you for the info.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:20 AM (nqBYe)

174 The FSA, for the most part, is the group of Americans that pays no
federal income tax. Neither making this deal nor killing it will affect
thier paychecks


Don't be so naive.

1) Debase currency.
2) Bracket creep.
3) Broad based "stealth" tax increase on low/middle

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 01, 2013 11:20 AM (hc3eM)

175 163 Yep. But for people aching for a reason to lay down and take it, your explanation is too nuanced

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 11:21 AM (XDC0v)

176 "159
I don't think it is a smart move to sit and wait for the relentless Math
to force a usable crisis. European events show that they can kick the
can down the road indefinitely because all of them can and will agree to
pretend reality is something other than it is so they can keep the game
alive and keep milking the public.


Posted by: SurferDoc at January 01, 2013 11:13 AM (6H6FZ)"

A lot of what the Europeans are doing is part of moving toward a more federalized system, where Germany is pumping subsidies out to the PIIGS. The US is already federalized in that way, so there is less room for us to maneuver. That's not to say that the Federal Reserve isn't doing a lot of things that even a few years ago would have been completely off the table and, in a stable rule of law country, might even be illegal, to prop up our government.


Even so, the fact that the Fed is a private entity should, at some point, play in favor of those who want some semblance of fiscal sanity. It's hard for me to imagine why the technocrats at the Fed, representing private interests like JPM and Goldman Sachs, would want to pour ever more of their capital down the DC rathole. On one level, it makes me think that the alternatives must be worse, which is a downright frightful thought. There are others who probably have more insight into the Fed's game plan than I do, though. Maybe the game plan is to have the government so in hock to private banking interests that it simply can't do anything without their approval. If so, though, why the fuck do private banking interests want to pour money into Obama's FSA and his retarded idea of "investments"? I've never met a banker that stupid. Seems like it would make more sense to just light the money on fire.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 11:21 AM (eP0u9)

177 I don’t have any respect for this crackpot (His winning a Nobel prize furthered my contempt), but can anyone tell me if there is any grain of true to this quote from “Brewing Up Confusion” By PAUL KRUGMAN, Published: December 30, 2012:

"The reality is that President Obama has made huge concessions. He has already cut spending sharply, and has now offered additional big spending cuts, including a cut in Social Security benefits, while signaling his willingness to retain many of the Bush tax cuts, even for people with very high incomes. Taken as a whole, the president’s proposals are arguably to the right of those made by Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, the co-chairmen of his deficit commission, in 2010."

Is he just making it up? This begs for a high profile substantive rebuttal. For starters, his use of superlatives without any data raises red flags.

Posted by: Tony at January 01, 2013 11:22 AM (1HcKD)

178 Bad events will only stop our path to Nazi America.

Posted by: Alans at January 01, 2013 11:22 AM (FuYBv)

179 A leftist with a taste for right-wing tears would drown on this thread

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 11:23 AM (XDC0v)

180 Because in Red States, Obama isn't even President! And the federal taxes and gun laws? They don't apply there! Hell, they don't even have network TV! Red States!


Posted by: comatus at January 01, 2013 11:24 AM (qaVK+)

181 I guess we are a one party country now. McCornhole should have been primaried.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at January 01, 2013 11:25 AM (KCvsd)

182 @160

The stock market is rising as a function of several things. INFLATION, which is coming, and safe haven for flight capital from the rest of the world.

We're less boned than the EU, does that make you happier?

Fine them, bend over and take it like a man.

Posted by: Billy Bob, at the cold beach at January 01, 2013 11:26 AM (Cydud)

183 Morons have at least a 4 year bad record of prediction on the economy. Hey maybe this year they will be right


Hi occam! What is your share of the national debt?


If you have the spine for that discussion (I doubt you do), I can tell you it will end badly.


But please, continue to mock. I feel extra stupid for not being able to say exactly when the meltdown will occur.

Posted by: fluffy at January 01, 2013 11:26 AM (z9HTb)

184 U.S. Constitution, Section 7 reads:"All bills for raisingRevenue shall originate inthe Houseof Representatives; but the Senate may propose orconcur withAmendments as on other Bills."

so can someone explain WTF is going on here?

Posted by: Shoey at January 01, 2013 11:26 AM (m6OUa)

185 And this is the actual benefit of letting us go to
sequestration. People will get a real taste of what Democrats in power
mean. The nation badly needs this lesson. Our side cheated the nation
out of what it needed to correct it's behavior.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:18 AM (bb5+k)


Bingo. Meanwhile you have that ignorant bint, Jennifer Rubin, whining because Boehner's Plan B From Outer Space was voted down; ignoring that it was shitcanned because he's an ignorant rummy fuck who should never be put in a leadership position where he has to show his hang-dog slack-jawed mug on television where he looks and sounds like he's in the middle of a mega-bender. Let It Burn.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at January 01, 2013 11:27 AM (Ccb4s)

186 It's hard for me to imagine why the technocrats at the Fed,
representing private interests like JPM and Goldman Sachs, would want to
pour ever more of their capital down the DC rathole.


JPM is effectively insolvent when their toxic mortgage overhang is factored. They know they wont survive the collapse, so their best play is to extend and bleed whatever operating profits can be had in the interim.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 01, 2013 11:27 AM (hc3eM)

187 Yes, it's all disgusting, but we have heard over and over that one party or the other is dead--and then they rise again. We thought the Dems were dead in 2010, right?

This is the best deal they could hope for, mainly because the American people are quite happy to have a comfy life paid for by someone else.

But there's a reason TFG giggled and jeered like a guy on speed last nigh: He knows, like we all do, that he can't outrun the math train. He can't keep giving free phones to his rabble unless he starts nationalizing corporations like Apple who still have money or appropriating our IRAs. He knows only violence can achieve his utopia now.

I say, let it burn, because it's burning already. It's unstoppable.

And real patriots won't give up.

Posted by: PJ at January 01, 2013 11:27 AM (ZWaLo)

188 3rd party.... nah
Maybe the tea party had it all wrong by running for office as republican. They should be trying to run as democrats and change the party from the inside. Why?

> make the fight at the primary level
> the media cries of republicans are racist obviously won't work
> low information voters rarely vote in primaries


Posted by: ET at January 01, 2013 11:27 AM (s72/N)

189 I'm not knowledgable on the stock market.

why does it seem to not be affected?



Also, with the currency devalued, today's 13K DJIA is worth a lot less than 2007's 14K DJIA.

Posted by: fluffy at January 01, 2013 11:28 AM (z9HTb)

190
What is generally known is that the Senate bill boils down to the follwing ;$620 billion in tax hikes over the next decade offset
by $15 billion in spending cuts now. Hardly "fair and
balanced." Anyone who, therefore, thinks this bill is a slam dunk
in the House is a brave gambling man.

The said, the "good news" is that 99% of Americans will see no change in
their taxes, as was the idea all along. And the evil 1% will get their just
deserts, which was the whole purpose of this relentless soap opera

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:28 AM (nqBYe)

191 "Is he just making it up? This begs for a high
profile substantive rebuttal. For starters, his use of superlatives
without any data raises red flags.

Posted by: Tony at January 01, 2013 11:22 AM (1HcKD)"

He may be talking about "cuts" as "slowdowns in the growth of spending", in which case even if that's so, I doubt the rate of growth will be slower than economic growth itself, which means that the Federal government's share of GDP will continue to increase.
As for cutting SS benefits, apparently Krugman isn't aware that only old white people get social security, especially old white women and they aren't exactly part of Obama's core voting bloc, so fuck them.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 11:28 AM (eP0u9)

192 sorry post 190 is how zero hedge describes it.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:29 AM (nqBYe)

193 "Maybe the tea party had it all wrong by running for office as republican. They should be trying to run as democrats and change the party from the inside."

Pelosi would never allow that to happen. Look at all the 'Blue Dogs' Pelosi told them to SIT or ELSE and they all rolled over and played dead as expected.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at January 01, 2013 11:29 AM (KCvsd)

194 so can someone explain WTF is going on here?

We're in a post-Constitutional era. None of that shit matters anymore.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 01, 2013 11:29 AM (hc3eM)

195 @175

Heh.

The system can not be repaired or reformed.

Be ready to live in the new one.

Or vote like a good little doggie.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 11:30 AM (EWsrI)

196 I realized this morning that I actually get amused to see the reactions with each GOP betrayal. I guess I'm becoming a troll - no one wants to listen. Don't get me wrong, I'm angry as much as anyone else, but like I'm always saying, and I guess becoming *that person*, when will you all finally realize you are being toyed with and manipulated? Really what's going to be the tipping point? I'm morbidly and disturbingly fascinated at knowing!!
It's not going to be fun saying toldya while scrounging for grubs.

Posted by: Quiz1 at January 01, 2013 11:30 AM (vA3os)

197 Saw this comment at ZeroHedge, pretty much accurate. Let it Burn faster I say.

"We can't have Repub levels of taxation and Dem levels of spending. Just doesn't work. In fact, Dem levels of spending won't work with any level of taxation.

Too many ppl riding in the wagon, no longer enuf pulling the wagon ... the wagon stops all hell breaks loose."

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 11:31 AM (3Kxux)

198 Yeah! Lets primary all republicans! Even the ones that vote right 90% of the time.
It will work out just fine... like God intended.

Posted by: Richard Murdock at January 01, 2013 11:32 AM (DGIjM)

199
also ZH
The bad news is that starting today millions of wage earners, will see a smaller
paycheck as a result of the lapse in the 2% payroll-tax cut, enacted in 2010,
which lowered the employee portion of the Social Security tax from 6.2% to 4.2%.
The direct cost of the payroll tax expiration will be $125 billion per
year, or nearly a full percentage point of GDP, and in practical terms,
an individual earnings the maximum cap of $113,700 (for 2013), will see their
paycheck drop by $200/month.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:32 AM (nqBYe)

200 193... if there are enough conservative democrats it won't matter what pelosi wants.

Posted by: ET at January 01, 2013 11:32 AM (s72/N)

201
guess i'll go check out market ticker to see what they say.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:32 AM (nqBYe)

202 "JPM is effectively insolvent when their toxic
mortgage overhang is factored. They know they wont survive the collapse,
so their best play is to extend and bleed whatever operating profits
can be had in the interim.


Posted by: @PurpAv at January 01, 2013 11:27 AM (hc3eM)"

Yep, "extend and pretend". It's the only thing that kind of makes sense, so I figured it must be something like that. Still, throwing good money after bad isn't exactly the kind of smart move one would expect from private capital. You'd think the bondholders would be pushing them toward bankruptcy, especially since there's no UAW to placate in a reorganization.

But, I suppose this is just a full-on run on the Treasury, so it's get while the getting is good time. "Live drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die". Hell of a way to run a country.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 11:33 AM (eP0u9)

203 "This is not completely fair. Every piece of news that gets broadcast must go through the filter of a New York Hired Liberal Democrat Union member. They simply don't let stuff get on the air that hurts their side."

Of course media bias plays a very significant role. Even when they're unfiltered, though, when they're talking on the Sunday morning talk shows or Fox News, I very rarely hear any of this. Instead of arguing why spending cuts are needed, they've spent two months (nevermind the last few years or decades) bitching about "balance" and Obama being "unfair."

Posted by: AD at January 01, 2013 11:33 AM (wxX5N)

204 184
U.S. Constitution, Section 7 reads:"All bills for raisingRevenue shall
originate inthe Houseof Representatives; but the Senate may propose
orconcur withAmendments as on other Bills."



so can someone explain WTF is going on here?

Posted by: Shoey at January 01, 2013 11:26 AM (m6OUa)

____________
Constitution? Pffft. That old thing.

Posted by: NY TIMES EDITORIAL BOARD at January 01, 2013 11:34 AM (HDgX3)

205 197 Yep. The binge and purge of political health

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 11:34 AM (XDC0v)

206 " if there are enough conservative democrats "

Hate to break the news to you, there are NO conservative demonrats anymore. I know, I used to be one, until the party went all commie and marxist.

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 11:34 AM (3Kxux)

207 This is an absolutely asinine analysis. We got our asses kicked in the election. The why or how is irrelevant. There are consequences for everything. Now Obama got his tax hike and he can claim some petty short term political victory. But, in the long run its pyrrhic in nature as all his bargaining chips are now off the table. There will now be significant pressure going forward to cut, cut, cut. Even the media wont be able to shield him on that. Because now its all about his legacy.

Additionally, the evil Bush tax cuts have now been permanently enshrined in American tax policy AND are now a huge plank in the Democratic Party's platform. I dont think conservatives realize how significant that is. Not even Reagan can claim such a thing. Bush won. Think about that.

Posted by: Jaydee at January 01, 2013 11:34 AM (E5DLT)

208 176 "If so, though, why the fuck do private banking interests want to pour
money into Obama's FSA and his retarded idea of "investments"? I've
never met a banker that stupid. Seems like it would make more sense to
just light the money on fire."

When things are bad enough (and they are getting there) their best move is do whatever it takes to keep the pauchecks and opportunities tos teal coming while they position themselves for the shitstorm by paying for that seaside estate in the Caribean and prepare the best contingency plan possible with other people's money. When Darth Vader says "Prepare my shuttle" he already has a safe haven in place.

Posted by: SurferDoc at January 01, 2013 11:35 AM (6H6FZ)

209 OT: Hillary is faking it

http://politi.co/UGd7VL

Despite what twits tweet.

She is faking it, like the orgasms she never had.

Posted by: sTevo at January 01, 2013 11:35 AM (VMcEw)

210 #193, The DNC isn't a Democracy. Any member which challenges the leadership is destroyed personally. The RNC pulls petty shit by kicking people off committees, the DNC will literally burn people's lives down.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at January 01, 2013 11:35 AM (KCvsd)

211

Boehner needs to issue a statement using The Village People as a backdrop.

Posted by: Soothsayer at January 01, 2013 11:35 AM (Si5xx)

212 A key part of the deal was permanently indexing the Alternative Minimum Tax to inflation.

This is EXTREMELY important to the true middle class. The AMT was originally passed. I recall from my accounting classes that AMT was originally passed in 1969 because Congress learned that 155 people didn't pay any taxes. Rather than recognize then that the U.S. Tax Code was one messed up piece of work, they passed the AMT. The problem was that it wasn't indexed for inflation, so as inflation happened over time, more people got sucked into the AMT's reach. Now it impacts anyone earning more than $68,000 per year. It can add between $2,000 and $4,000 to an average person's tax burden per year, even with tax rates going up.

Indexing it to inflation will at least move most of us out of the AMT's reach and put it back on the Steven Spielbergs, Russell Simmons, Barbara Streisands, Oprah Winfreys and Sean Penns of the world who aggressively funded and voted for President Obama.

Posted by: Manolo at January 01, 2013 11:35 AM (PttbO)

213 In a red State you are a freer and more powerful American.

You vote for President means something more.

Your local taxes support a better government.

You have fewer restrictions on your freedom and you have better prospects for the future.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 11:36 AM (EWsrI)

214 The tax hikes seem to consist of an increase in the death tax for those above $5M from 35% to 40%, and a phase out of some deductions for those making over $250K.

Since the higher tax rates are already in place, reinstitution tax cuts for those earning less than $400K is not a tax cut. There is a tax hike as I noted above, but not lowering the rate for high earners ain't it.

It ought to be noted that "Plan B," if passed today, could not be considered a "tax increase" even by the likes of Levin and Erickson (though I'm sure they'd try).

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 11:36 AM (Vk2pI)

215 The bad news is that starting today millions of wage earners, will see a smaller

paycheck as a result of the lapse in the 2% payroll-tax cut, enacted in 2010,

which lowered the employee portion of the Social Security tax from 6.2% to 4.2%.

The direct cost of the payroll tax expiration will be $125 billion per

year, or nearly a full percentage point of GDP, and in practical terms,

an individual earnings the maximum cap of $113,700 (for 2013), will see their

paycheck drop by $200/month.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:32 AM (nqBYe)

____________________
That was a stupid tax cut to begin with. The 47% at least pay SS tax. That 2% cut was the 1st step in eventually getting of SS tax altogether, which would mean the 47% would pay no income tax and no SS tax. Sadly, too many conservatives fell for it.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 01, 2013 11:36 AM (HDgX3)

216 OT

I've talked here before about taking care of my great-aunt. Well now that task is done. She went to Heaven on Sunday; she was 91. She died at home and I'm grateful for that.

I'm not sad, per se. Just feel as though a part of me is missing (was raised by her in the first half my childhood).

I'm very glad that her suffering is ended and glad she will not have to experience the tender "mercies" of Obamacare.

She was smart in that she planned her her funeral arrangements long ago. Even so it will not be fun.

People keep calling and asking me "how you doing" and I have to resist the urge to say "better if you'd stop interrupting me and leave me the fuck alone for a minute. I've got a lot of work to do."

New Year indeed. Thanks for being my friends in an iPad, Morons and Moronettes.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at January 01, 2013 11:37 AM (Su0W2)

217 3rd party.... nah

Maybe the tea party had it all wrong by running for office as
republican. They should be trying to run as democrats and change the
party from the inside. Why?



> make the fight at the primary level

> the media cries of republicans are racist obviously won't work

> low information voters rarely vote in primaries







Posted by: ET at January 01, 2013 11:27 AM (s72/N)

The old John Paul Jones approach? I don't think there is time for any such effort.






Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:37 AM (bb5+k)

218 PDF of the bill: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/01/01/american.taxpayer.relief.act.pdf

The Senate bill consists of:

Under the Senate package:

-- Taxes would stay the same for most Americans. But they will increase for individuals making more than $400,000 and couples making more than $450,000. For them, it will go from the current 35% to the Clinton-era rate of 39.6%.

-- Itemized deductions would be capped for those making $250,000 and for married couples making $300,000.

-- Taxes on inherited estates will go up to 40% from 35%.

-- Unemployment insurance would be extended for a year for 2 million people.

-- The alternative minimum tax -- a perennial issue -- would be permanently adjusted for inflation.

-- Child care, tuition and research and development tax credits would be renewed.

-- The "Doc Fix" -- reimbursements for doctors who take Medicare patients -- will continue, but it won't be paid for out of the Obama administration's signature health care law.

-- A spike in milk prices will be avoided. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said milk prices would have doubled to $7 a gallon because a separate agriculture bill had expired.

via http://tinyurl.com/b6chzdm

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 11:37 AM (Vk2pI)

219
johnx__dem, i try to avoid the comments . i'm sure some are decent but i jst can't wade through the hatefest . when certain groups of others are mentioned.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:37 AM (nqBYe)

220 Sorry for your loss.

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 11:38 AM (3Kxux)

221
A key part of the deal was permanently indexing the Alternative Minimum Tax to inflation.

This is EXTREMELY important
Posted by: Manolo




It's permanent until it's changed.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 11:39 AM (kdS6q)

222 206....I agree, that's my point, that's why the dem party is as extreme as it is there are no conservatives in any number to make a difference there.

But realize the republican brand is dead. There are only 2 options for conservatives, 3rd party or transform the dem party.

Posted by: ET at January 01, 2013 11:39 AM (s72/N)

223 ""We can't have Repub levels of taxation and Dem
levels of spending. Just doesn't work. In fact, Dem levels of spending
won't work with any level of taxation.

Too many ppl riding in the wagon, no longer enuf pulling the wagon ... the wagon stops all hell breaks loose."


Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 11:31 AM (3Kxux)"

This is why the Dems are so adamantly against spending cuts. It's not just ideological, it's practical. Every dollar that isn't funneled through the government is a dollar they can't take a cut on. If they can barely get Obama over the popular vote finish line with trillions of dollars funneled through the government, how would they fare in elections if any of that gravy train were to be cut off? They'd be down to the ideological dead-enders (you know, the kind of people who think "Socialism and/or Communism hasn't really been tried") who are, at best, 20% of the voting population.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 11:39 AM (eP0u9)

224 Wow, a picture of Emma Stone looking like a very cute leprechaun and nothing. Yeah going back to bed.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:39 AM (fx1PU)

225 Baldy,

So sorry for your loss.

Posted by: EC at January 01, 2013 11:39 AM (doBIb)

226
Hillary Clinton is recovering from a face lift and neck tuck. Concussion and blood clot, my ass.

Posted by: Soothsayer at January 01, 2013 11:40 AM (LPRBM)

227 The death tax is a joke anyway. It only effects poor folks.

The rich just create foundations, and just happen to promote their children to director positions.

Yep. The stupid party caved in pointlessly again. And will get blamed for the hyperinflation that follows.

Posted by: Kristophr at January 01, 2013 11:40 AM (wYVte)

228 Baldilocks.. I am so sorry for your loss.
Grandmas are the greatest.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 01, 2013 11:40 AM (DGIjM)

229 Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:37 AM (nqBYe)

yes, me too. Although most comments are ok, they are very liberatarian and very fiscally conservative from what I've seen. Many on that site I think are business owners, so reading the comments shows a lot of how that group thinks.

But you are correct, some, not many, are pretty vulgar, I think they take pride in that, they seem to add nothing to the conversation.

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 11:40 AM (3Kxux)

230
baldilocks, I undetand about the ,"I'm not sad, per se. Just feel as though a part of me is missing (was raised by her in the first half my childhood).

I'm very glad that her suffering is ended "

That's really it isn't it, when someone we know is terminal and in crisis.
prayers for you and prayers for a soul at peace.

Posted by: ette at January 01, 2013 11:40 AM (nqBYe)

231 Are we allowed to call them pussies on this thread?

Posted by: Professor de la Paz at January 01, 2013 11:41 AM (szJh3)

232 Sorry for your loss Baldilocks. As you say she has gone to her reward.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:41 AM (fx1PU)

233
Well, it's official, I'll never vote for any person that voted yes on this deal. Done with the GOP as a party. Will never register as Republican again, and will never pay GOP a dime again. I will vote against any incumbent with a D or R next to their name. I may choose to vote for someone new with an R, but they would really have to be special like Mike Lee or Rand Paul.
Gee Ace, aren't you happy you spent so much time trashing Paul and his supporters during the campaign. How has that worked out for you?
Only way GOP could win me back is to toss Boehner out of office, but we all know that isn't going to happen.
I think the title of SCOAMF should officially move to Boehner for the next 4 years.

Posted by: Andrew at January 01, 2013 11:41 AM (HS3dy)

234 The 47% at least pay SS tax.

A big chunk of that comes back with EITC.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 01, 2013 11:42 AM (hc3eM)

235 Argh.. sorry baldilocks.. Great aunt.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 01, 2013 11:42 AM (DGIjM)

236
so can someone explain WTF is going on here?
Posted by: Shoey



The bill the Senate passed was HR 8, so it was likely a House bill that was hollowed out and stuffed with new legislation.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 11:42 AM (kdS6q)

237 On Hillary,
Reports are she has a "Brain Crisis"
I read the article and it is very lame for a crisis.
You could say it is a "Lame Brain Crisis"

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at January 01, 2013 11:42 AM (BAnPT)

238 223 B-b-b-b-b-but... don't you realize the Republican Party is dead? I saw it on AoS!!!

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 11:42 AM (XDC0v)

239 Hillary Clinton is recovering from a face lift and neck tuck. Concussion and blood clot, my ass.

Posted by: Soothsayer at January 01, 2013 11:40 AM (LPRBM)



which might be the cause, not the symptom

Posted by: beachie at January 01, 2013 11:42 AM (LpQbZ)

240
My condolences, Baldilocks.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 01, 2013 11:43 AM (4u2LN)

241 ....hollowed out and stuffed with new legislation


***

Like our collective asses

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at January 01, 2013 11:43 AM (BAnPT)

242 233 Another vote for the Dems!!!

Posted by: DAve at January 01, 2013 11:43 AM (XDC0v)

243 Seriously, I want to know how many people here belive this bill was written in one day.

Anybody?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 11:43 AM (69Mdf)

244 I switched to the (as much as I hate to say it) party of Luap Nor a few weeks after the election. I voted for Romney. I'm tired of this crap.

Posted by: Morseus at January 01, 2013 11:44 AM (8Syx4)

245

good going MAN UTD!
FOUR!

Posted by: beachie at January 01, 2013 11:44 AM (LpQbZ)

246 I will never vote for a democrat.. ever.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 01, 2013 11:44 AM (DGIjM)

247 The only thing I will take some gloating in is when the revenues lost will exceed the revenues confiscated by these new tax rates.

It will happen, 100% guaranteed. 60 billion additional revenues per yr is nothing. and it can only be taken one time, those geese will be killed off, what then? there isn't enough money, they can print all they want, even that has reached its limits.

This has been dragging on since 2008. It will come to a bad confrontational soon enough.

Posted by: johnc_ex-dem at January 01, 2013 11:44 AM (3Kxux)

248 Going to eat oysters! There is an R in January!

Posted by: Billy Bob, at the cold beach at January 01, 2013 11:44 AM (Cydud)

249 A third party won't work since roughly half of voters are now in the FSA.

Since the dems are Commies and get the FSA, the one variable is the GOP.

They are the problem. This has been the case for a long time, but in these current crises the reveals are stark and crippling.

The GOP in its current iteration needs to be gone before we can demolish the rotten dem cartel.

How to do it is the issue.

The Tea Party may have to become a legitimate entity with electable, accountable organs and a head.


Posted by: ontherocks at January 01, 2013 11:45 AM (aZ6ew)

250 Soothsayer. Even after slapping on a layer of Bondo and trying to pull the wrinkles out of the skin panels. She will still look like an Edsel.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:45 AM (fx1PU)

251 now we all get to sit back and see how nothing gets better economically.

You mean "how the Republicans and Conservatives stand in the way of Dear Leader's Progress".

Eventually, if this continues, we'll all get to see cattle cars full of people when civilian disarmament is ruthlessly enforced by a loyal security force. "25 million is a but a statistic!" says Commissar Ayers.

Posted by: The sound of battle in the distance at January 01, 2013 11:46 AM (XJ6Zy)

252
protecting voters from the financial impact of their electoral choices we will simply see ever more demands for larger, not smaller government.

Yep. This is like giving painkillers to someone who has broken his leg, instead of enduring the pain and setting the fracture. It appears the more attractive option in the short run, but it's catastrophic in the long run.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 01, 2013 11:46 AM (4u2LN)

253 Jumbo Shrimp, she was a combo of mom and grandma to me, so it's not really a mistake.

Thanks for your prayers, praying Morons/ettes.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at January 01, 2013 11:47 AM (Su0W2)

254 Pssst, we have a quasi third party already.Libertarians voted Johnson to the tune of 1 million plus and the conservatives held to their super awesome principals and stayed home........Obama won.
I guess they didn't realize that the GOP, as they have done repeatedly in the past, will flip on their principals faster than you can bat an eye.

After they are done helping to set the country back another 20 years they will then rationalize the wisdom of banning and registering weapons.

Posted by: Drider at January 01, 2013 11:48 AM (PsHkt)

255
Sorry for your loss Baldilocks.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 11:48 AM (69Mdf)

256 "185
And this is the actual benefit of letting us go to

sequestration. People will get a real taste of what Democrats in power

mean. The nation badly needs this lesson. Our side cheated the nation

out of what it needed to correct it's behavior.







Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:18 AM (bb5+k)"



Yep, for example, when you hear liberals talking about how healthcare in Canada is "free" and that's what they want here, you realize they just don't get it. It's "free" at the point of sale only because you've already paid the tax up-front.

The "free" stuff being given away here is even worse because we are going into debt to foreign countries to give it away because we can't sell enough bonds to our own citizens so that we really "owe it to ourselves". It's all so ridiculously stupid from any and every angle.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 11:48 AM (eP0u9)

257
I've talked here before about taking care of my
great-aunt. Well now that task is done. She went to Heaven on Sunday;
she was 91. She died at home and I'm grateful for that.





Posted by: baldilocks at January 01, 2013 11:37 AM (Su0W2)


I am sorry for your loss.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:48 AM (bb5+k)

258 253 Jumbo Shrimp, she was a combo of mom and grandma to me, so it's not really a mistake.

Thanks for your prayers, praying Morons/ettes.
Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at January 01, 2013 11:47 AM (Su0W2)

My Great Aunt was too.. we thought of her as Grandma.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at January 01, 2013 11:49 AM (DGIjM)

259

O/T

Two good movies I watched on Netflix recently:

Get the Gringo (w/Mel Gibson)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1567609/

and

Headhunters (2011 Norwegian/subtitled)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1614989/
Really good. The intensity builds up and explodes towards the end. Smart, action thriller.

Posted by: beachie at January 01, 2013 11:50 AM (LpQbZ)

260 184 U.S. Constitution, Section 7 reads: "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."

so can someone explain WTF is going on here?


The Senate proposed an amendment to H.R.8. That bill, passed by the House in August, extended all the tax cuts.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 11:51 AM (YjDyJ)

261 Remember when there was a bunch of talk about people sneaking amendments into bills that paid for pet projects? The GOP said they would explore options, Flake (Az) got on TV and said he would introduce a bill to ban it and was told by McConnell that he would be squeezed out of all committees and cut off from all funding if he didn't shut up. He did.
This is the professional political class who preside forever over the coasts, media and parties and live in the wealthiest place in the entire country--DC--a place awash in cash.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 01, 2013 11:51 AM (002dC)

262 "On Election Night, Barack Obama's hottest sexual fantasy was fulfilled when Mitt Romney delivered a submissive beta-maleconcession speech."

Baldilock's blog!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 01, 2013 11:52 AM (GsoHv)

263 169
I constantly complain about media bias and then I complain about not
hearing what Republicans are saying in their press conferences, never
putting the two together, 'cuz I just lurve complaining

Posted by: Typical AoS pundit at January 01, 2013 11:18 AM (XDC0v)
--------------------------------------------See, there's this thing called the "New Media" -- you may have heard about it. It runs on inter-tubes or something. If the Republican Leadership (that term has become an oxymoron) had a clue, they would be constantly giving speeches calling out President Choom and the dems on their lies and misrepresentations. These would be picked up by the New Media, and word would get out, and the low-information voter may actually learn something. Instead, all we get from the GOP is crickets chirping.

Posted by: RoadRunner at January 01, 2013 11:52 AM (3LD8A)

264 @robertcostaNRO RT @dnewhauser GOP leaders not ruling out amending the Senate #fiscalcliff bill, aide says

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 11:52 AM (YjDyJ)

265 My condolences, baldilocks.

Posted by: rickl at January 01, 2013 11:52 AM (sdi6R)

266 ((Baldilocks))

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at January 01, 2013 11:53 AM (wbeNt)

267 The Senate bill does include some tax increases (e.g. Death tax increase from 35% to 40% for estates more than $5M & the phasing out of some deductions for those earning more than $250K).

However, the tax rates and social security tax hike ARE ALREADY THE LAW. Reducing the tax for the vast majority of Americans is NOT A TAX INCREASE. Even the above noted hikes are at least partially offset by the lower rates for the first $400K or so of income.

It ought to be noted that "Plan B" would have lowered the tax rates for most people, but WITHOUT the tax increases noted above. If voted on today, it would clearly be a tax cut because the higher rates are already law, and Plan B would not raise those rates!

The major problem is that if the House GOP defeats this, they will be portrayed as defenestrating the middle class and the poor via HIGHER TAXES, in order to try to protect high earners. If the House GOP passes it, they will have enacted tax cuts on some, but still have raised taxes on others.

If "Plan B" had passed, the House GOP would have avoided that. But because *some* individuals falsely claimed that "Plan B" was a tax increase, the GOP found itself in the petition it is in today.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 11:53 AM (Vk2pI)

268 @227: You're not far from it. A lot of these rich people incorporate their personas, which separates themselves from a business "entity." They then have the business entity pay them a salary, usually a poverty level sum that they use as pocket change (the "Hollywood Flash Roll"). Taxes are filed separately on both: the person files a poverty level income tax return and the business files a corporate income tax return. An army of accountants at firms ensure every loophole of the Tax Code is exploited. In the meantime, these people never actually pay for a meal (every time they do they count it as a business meeting, so it's a deduction, or it's comped by the restaurant that wants the exposure), they accept and use gifts from companies (product placement, so it's a business matter), etc., etc. Everything they do they turn into a business expense: shopping, vacations, meals, etc. They're "poor" on paper, but they're really rich as can be.

Posted by: Manolo at January 01, 2013 11:55 AM (PttbO)

269 TPH, for cups of gumbo Plan B sank beneath the waves.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 01, 2013 11:55 AM (fx1PU)

270 Baldilocks,
Courage and peace to you, gentle traveler.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at January 01, 2013 11:55 AM (BAnPT)

271 This is the professional political class who preside
forever over the coasts, media and parties and live in the wealthiest
place in the entire country--DC--a place awash in cash.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 01, 2013 11:51 AM (002dC)


And this is a major aspect of the problem facing us. Our side is ALSO our Enemy. We have to fight both the Democrats AND the Republicans.






Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 01, 2013 11:55 AM (bb5+k)

272 If Oblahblah has destroyed the GOP, it is the second good thing he has accomplished. The worthless party should just go away, and let a real conservative party emerge.

Posted by: Bob at January 01, 2013 11:56 AM (7Mu/o)

273 Constitution party here I come!

Posted by: Phil at January 01, 2013 11:57 AM (/Y0qq)

274 Condolences to baldilocks, an excellent poster and fellow moron.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at January 01, 2013 11:58 AM (Ccb4s)

275 259 Headhunters (2011 Norwegian/subtitled)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1614989/
Really good. The intensity builds up and explodes towards the end. Smart, action thriller.
Posted by: beachie at January 01, 2013 11:50 AM (LpQbZ)


I found this on Netflix a few weeks ago and thought it rather good. Some rather predictable stuff but overall I did enjoy it quite a bit. Worth a look.

Also, I don't have cable and out of curiosity watched "Breaking Bad." Holy shit. Best TV series ever made. And from a very jaded screenwriter with 30 years in show biz, that says something.

But the first 8 episodes of season 5 are not available yet. DAMN!!!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at January 01, 2013 11:58 AM (XkWWK)

276 Prayers to you Baldilocks.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 11:58 AM (l86i3)

277 Republicans should have bought a network years ago, Fired everyone
who is Liberal, and then used that network to get their message out
around the filter of the other networks. Isn't that how it used to be
done with newspapers?


We're taking care of newspapers just fine.

Posted by: Technology at January 01, 2013 12:00 PM (T0NGe)

278 Baldilocks, I hope time brings you comfort.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 12:00 PM (EWsrI)

279 baldilocks, I'm sorry about your great aunt. Carol

Posted by: CarolT at January 01, 2013 12:00 PM (z4WKX)

280 All this bullshit for 60b/yr......enough funding for 2wks of operation?.....not to mention the hidden goodies for cronies....all 535 need to be relieved of their positions.

Posted by: BignJames at January 01, 2013 12:01 PM (Sg0G/)

281 This is the professional political class who preside

forever over the coasts, media and parties and live in the wealthiest

place in the entire country--DC--a place awash in cash..


Remember all the freshman republican congressmen who were going to clean up DC in the election of 1994? The leadership ran them off ASAP.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at January 01, 2013 12:02 PM (BAnPT)

282 The House GOP now faces a Kobayashi-Maru scenario: Vote against tax cuts for Middle class, or vote for tax hikes on some high earners.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 12:02 PM (Vk2pI)

283 The GOP is running scared. I never thought I would see this level of capitulation. I'm hoping for a stubborn ass congress.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 12:03 PM (l86i3)

284 Are the Bush tax rates permanent for 99% of people?

Posted by: gwelf at January 01, 2013 12:03 PM (qjW4z)

285 41 dollars in taxes for every dollar of cuts!


Well done GOP, well done!


Third party now!

Conservatarian party is now a go!

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 01, 2013 12:03 PM (zOP5o)

286 Condolences, baldilocks.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at January 01, 2013 12:03 PM (KAWvv)

287 Condolences to you, Baldilocks.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at January 01, 2013 12:04 PM (yiIja)

288 Conservatarian party is now a go!
Posted by: General Woundwort at January 01, 2013 12:03 PM (zOP5o)


Yep, we keep bashing our heads into the wall, and now we all got headaches. Where is the leader?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 12:05 PM (l86i3)

289 The math is doing this. The politicians are just doing whatever they can do to hide from the math.

Nothing has changed.

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 12:05 PM (EWsrI)

290 So sorry for your loss Baldilocks.

Posted by: Jmel at January 01, 2013 12:05 PM (9tSXa)

291 Honest to God I would have preferred sequestration. At some point someone has to pay the bills and the damn economy is already doomed by Qeternity anyway. The GOP is clearly, as DiogenesLamp says, our enemy as well.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 01, 2013 12:05 PM (002dC)

292 Are the Bush tax rates permanent for 99% of people?Posted by: gwelf at January 01, 2013 12:03 PM (qjW4z)------Yes, just like your last job was permanent

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at January 01, 2013 12:05 PM (R8hU8)

293 Condolences to you, Baldilocks

Posted by: Daybrother at January 01, 2013 12:06 PM (002dC)

294 Wont we be even more impressed when they cave on gun control?

Posted by: BignJames at January 01, 2013 12:06 PM (Sg0G/)

295 @284

No, the hastily passed bill just extends them for 1 year, they substituted the December 31st 2012 sunset date for December 31st 2013.


So we get to fight these battles again in a year.

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 01, 2013 12:06 PM (zOP5o)

296 All my condolences and best wishes to you, Baldilocks.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 01, 2013 12:06 PM (T0NGe)

297 So we get to fight these battles again in a year.
Posted by: General Woundwort at January 01, 2013 12:06 PM (zOP5o)


I'm sure we will be in a much stronger position by then.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 12:06 PM (l86i3)

298 Rubio/Plan B 2016!

Posted by: eman at January 01, 2013 12:07 PM (EWsrI)

299 The House GOP now faces a Kobayashi-Maru scenario: Vote against tax cuts
for Middle class, or vote for tax hikes on some high earners.


Amend the bill, pass the amended bill, send it back.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 01, 2013 12:07 PM (T0NGe)

300 Sorry to hear of your loss baldilocks.

Posted by: dogfish at January 01, 2013 12:08 PM (N2yhW)

301 So, you're riding a horse full speed, there is a Giraffe next to you and You're being chased by a lion, what do you do?

Get your drunk ass off the carousel.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 12:09 PM (l86i3)

302 What matters in Washington: Better haircut:

Johnny Edwards or John Boehner?

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 01, 2013 12:10 PM (P3dtw)

303 I see a lot of people still aren't digesting the fact that Obama won the election. "Basically conservative" people who give half a shit about limited government/fiscal sanity don't elect Obama twice. The Tea Party revolution is dead, and the Free Stuff Army killed it. How any of you actually expected significant spending cuts out of this is beyond me. Our team doesn't have the ball, so yeah it is pretty unreasonable to expect a touchdown on this play.

Even more mystifying is this idea that the public, which again rejected the idea of limited spending/government not two months ago, is just DYING for a new limited spending/government party to vote for.

Posted by: Paul at January 01, 2013 12:10 PM (g4Saz)

304
The House GOP now faces a Kobayashi-Maru scenario:

Then they should change the game. Keep the tax rates the same as last year at the top 2 levels and pass a tax CUT for the middle class.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 12:11 PM (69Mdf)

305 ridiculous analysis. If Republicans could have made permanent the Bush tax rates for everyone under $400,000 ten years ago they would have jumped at it. Harder to sell new tax increases to the American people in all future fights with congress.

Posted by: mikey at January 01, 2013 12:11 PM (/sMZ6)

306 I haven't been paying much attention since Nov only because I cannot shake the intense feeling that no amount of caring and acting will make a difference short of the whole thing falling apart. But to my question, am I to understand that this spending bill started in the Senate? How so? Are they classifying this as something different? If it did start in the Senate that only supports my feeling it is over.

Posted by: dogfish at January 01, 2013 12:12 PM (N2yhW)

307 So we get to fight these battles again in a year.
Posted by: General Woundwort


I know! Isn't it exciting! They get all this leverage! Obama may get non-recess recess appointments, unilateral treaty ability, control of national insurance and energy and auto and health and finance, but the GOP will use their leverage to allow single shot .22 rifles after confiscation as long as they are registered and insured.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 01, 2013 12:12 PM (002dC)

308
Wont we be even more impressed when they cave on gun control?
Posted by: BignJames



If you don't know by now
Nobody's gonna tell you

If you don't know by now
The shock will probably kill you

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 01, 2013 12:13 PM (kdS6q)

309 Stay strong Baldilocks, when you're through with the difficult details, only fond memories will remain, and you'll be wiser for your experience.

Doesn't seem like much consolation now, but it will be increasingly significant.


Posted by: ontherocks at January 01, 2013 12:15 PM (aZ6ew)

310 Well...ok.

Now What?

Hey, let's raise the debt limit?

Who's with me!

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at January 01, 2013 12:15 PM (77WqD)

311 Plane crash burns up Military votes - check
Plane crash almost kills Hillary Clinton? - uh

Is it just me or is the most dangerous time to be flying out of Iraq, is before an election or Congressional hearings?

The first time is coincidence, the second time is happenstance...

Posted by: The third time is enemy action at January 01, 2013 12:16 PM (1agxt)

312 @306

They are amending an already passed bill and offering it as a continuing resolution to the house.

The house can either sign off on it or amend it and send it back to the Senate for the Senates consideration.

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 01, 2013 12:16 PM (zOP5o)

313 Hey, I'm not broke, I still got a checkbook.

Posted by: Prezzy Choom. at January 01, 2013 12:17 PM (l86i3)

314 So, you're riding a horse full speed, there is a Giraffe next to you and You're being chased by a lion, what do you do?

Shoot the Giraffe.

Posted by: @PurpAv at January 01, 2013 12:18 PM (hc3eM)

315 I'd again like to thank the Bush administration and the Republicans in both houses during that time when they passed these tax cuts with a fucking sunset provision Just moronic.

Posted by: Rich at January 01, 2013 12:18 PM (Aq251)

316 260 184 U.S. Constitution, Section 7 reads: "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills." so can someone explain WTF is going on here? The Senate proposed an amendment to H.R.8. That bill, passed by the House in August, extended all the tax cuts.
Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 11:51 AM (YjDyJ) chicanery

Posted by: Shoey at January 01, 2013 12:18 PM (m6OUa)

317 Thx for catching me up. Obama is still a SCOAMF right?

Posted by: dogfish at January 01, 2013 12:18 PM (N2yhW)

318 I agree with 303.

We lost the election. We can't expect to win these battles until we can win the elections. This is a democracy.

I think this is a pretty decent outcome given that the deck is stacked against us.

Rubio/Ryan 2016

Posted by: Dave in Flower Mound at January 01, 2013 12:20 PM (qzwtJ)

319 Hey, I'm not broke, I still got a checkbook.
Posted by: Prezzy Choom


LOL

"Hey Asia? Cash this for me will you? I'm gonna post date it and I know it's a lot but I can kick back a little to you and Oh, yeah, I forgot my ID but I'm from Hawaii...."

Posted by: Daybrother at January 01, 2013 12:20 PM (002dC)

320 Thx for catching me up. Obama is still a SCOAMF right?
Posted by: dogfish at January 01, 2013 12:18 PM (N2yhW)

I think failure was changed to traitor.

Posted by: Prezzy Choom. at January 01, 2013 12:20 PM (l86i3)

321 The GOP was never going to get spending cuts. The tax rates for the Middle Class is it's own battle. "Plan B" would have been a symbolic and strategic victory. The Senate plan is pain for the GOP either way.

The GOP now must choose: Stop tax hikes on the few and thus tak hikes on the many, or support tax cuts for most but some tax hikes for the few.

The Democrats have set the GOP up: Defenestrate the Middle Class to protect "the rich" or to break their tax pledge.

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 12:21 PM (Vk2pI)

322 Sock-o-Matic.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 12:21 PM (l86i3)

323 Sorry Baldilocks.
My Dad passed 30 years ago. There is rarely a day that goes by where I don't think of him. I think back on some of the things he said and did, and though I did not appreciate it at the time, there was a lesson or word of encouragement that helped me long after he was "gone". Still learning from him even after 30 years. There is a lot of comfort in knowing he is still there. I bet the same will happen for you if you let it. May God bless.

Posted by: Hammer at January 01, 2013 12:22 PM (5buGz)

324 The House GOP now faces a Kobayashi-Maru scenario: Vote against tax cuts
for Middle class, or vote for tax hikes on some high earners.

Amend the bill, pass the amended bill, send it back.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 01, 2013 12:07 PM (T0NGe)


You are assuming that the House leadership is smart enough to do that.

They'll be blamed for "killing tax cuts for the Middle class" by proposing "unreasonable changes" due to the fact that they are incompetent at messaging.

Then they should change the game. Keep the tax rates the same as last year at the top 2 levels and pass a tax CUT for the middle class.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 01, 2013 12:11 PM (69Mdf)


Technically, that would be a tax cut for EVERYONE. The Democrats won't allow it and blame the GOP for holding the Middle Class "hostage" in order to protect "the 1%." If they had passed that bill coupled with actual spending cuts earlier last year, it would have been a good one.

But they didn't.

The brilliant thing about "Plan B" is that is didn't actually raise anyone's rates, but showed that the GOP will not defenestrate the Middle Class in order to protect "the 1%."

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 12:27 PM (Vk2pI)

325 @321

They could have offered the following.

1) Leave the top two tax rates unchanged cut the rest 2% points
2) Strip the stimulus out of the baseline budget
3) Across the board 10% reduction in discretionary spending.

The middles class gets a tax cut to offset the Obamacare tax increases, and you sell those tax cuts as exactly that.

Stimulus gets stripped and you have cut over 800 billion in spending.

The further cuts across discretionary further balance the budget.


AT SOME FUCKING POINT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THE SOUL OF THIS COUNTRY!

Obama and the Donks are trying to destroy the GOP, IS THIS NOT THE FUCKING HILL TO DIE ON?

Posted by: General Woundwort at January 01, 2013 12:28 PM (zOP5o)

326 As screwed as we are, is easy to understand when you remember that this is an intentional plan to decimate the united states financially and morally. We have all been working hard earning a living while they have worked on the infrastructure for decades, Public Schools, Universities, Courts etc. How we respond in the next couple of years is going to decide the fate of a nation.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 12:28 PM (l86i3)

327 Maybe political parties can't save the country at all; maybe federalism can.

States have been going quietly red for a couple of years now. They're passing RTW laws and cutting budgets and, more importantly, are succeeding at restoring their economies. Repub governors are turning down federal mandates (accompanied by debt).

So, federalism. Yeah.

Posted by: PJ at January 01, 2013 12:28 PM (ZWaLo)

328
I'll give my money and time to the GOP when Georgette Mosbacher and the RNC insiders hike their skirts up and bend over for me.

In 2003 I made a vow to never, ever vote for a Democrat again. In 2013 I've decided that I'm never, ever going to vote for another Republican.

I'm a Libertarian now.


Posted by: CozMark at January 01, 2013 12:29 PM (BjOkm)

329 Whatever the House does, it'll probably involve a self-induced political headwound.

I'm off to enjoy the New Year... or at least try to...

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 01, 2013 12:30 PM (Vk2pI)

330 #'s 30 and 17, how do we affect a hostile takeover? Boehner should be thrown out for a start and we can't even get out representatives to do that! Hostile my a--!

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 12:32 PM (1W1S7)

331 Do voters give a shit about taxes anymore? We'll find out.

Campaigning on low taxes doesn't mean much when voters aren't worried about tax hikes. If they start worrying about that again (at least the 53% who pay federal income taxes) this could be good for the Right.

Posted by: CJ at January 01, 2013 12:32 PM (9KqcB)

332 This is what the MFM meant when they pronounced the Tea Party as dead.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 01, 2013 12:33 PM (002dC)

333 I'm not surprised the Republicans caved. They have as much fight in them as the French army.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 01, 2013 12:35 PM (+FZZC)

334 They will never understand tax increases are NOT revenue increases.

Posted by: SmileyNH at January 01, 2013 12:35 PM (hlZx/)

335 I had Dexter on demand in the kitchen, then they did the test and it went to Fox News. I could hear Lindsey Graham saying to save the fight for the debt ceiling. Lindsey is always such a voice of reason (sarc).

Posted by: CarolT at January 01, 2013 12:38 PM (z4WKX)

336 Agree Gen Woundwort! Is there NO hill worth dying on? Republicans are worthless. They are nothing but stage dressing for Democrats. Something to make them look good in the class warfare. I have been a lifelong Republican. No more! I will never give another penny unless that "hostile" takeover happens.

Posted by: AnnaS at January 01, 2013 12:38 PM (hyIbd)

337 Fuck Barack Obama
Fuck the Democrats
Fuck The GOP aka Old White Democrats Pretending to be Conservative
Fuck the 47% of useless free phone dumbshits who voted for this dickshit of an asswhipe president because of a lousy welfare check, food stamp allowance, and the color of his skin.
Fuck the useless cocksucking socialist pigs that never worked a real job a day in their lives but infest our educational system poisoning the minds of the youth against freedom and capitalism.
Fuck the Unions that upside downed our worker economy to the point that they drove the bulk of our manufacturing overseas.
Fuck the Youth who are to fucking stupid to realize that Hope is not a plan and Change is not a destination.
Fuck the Hollywood idiots like Mat Damon who supported this dickshit cause they are too young and stupid to know better, and the Hollywood idiots like Barbra Streisand who also supported this dickshit even though they are too fucking old to be this damn stupid.
Fuck the Media for covering enabling and cheerleading this mother fucker because of their left wing socialist agenda.
Fuck all of you who sat at home instead of voting this mother fucker out of office.

Fuck!

Fuck Them All!

They Fucked this country up so bad, we will never recover.

Happy mother fucking new year.

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at January 01, 2013 12:41 PM (+OTLF)

338 316 chicanery

"All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives..."

H.R.8- American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012
http://1.usa.gov/12VNt1X

"To extend certain tax relief provisions enacted in 2001 and 2003, and to provide for expedited consideration of a bill providing for comprehensive tax reform, and for other purposes."

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 12:42 PM (YjDyJ)

339
What did you expect? This is about as good a deal as we were going to get after the far right destroyed our negotiating position via Plan B.

You live in a country that just voted to raise taxes on incomes over $250k, and embraced socialized medicine. This is the reality. You can't change things until you face reality.

Posted by: sanity at January 01, 2013 12:42 PM (RVjIg)

340 The GOP has to learn that we do not win a war with SCOAMT by losing battle after battle. Don't they have any fight in them? Passing a bill in the middle of the night? I am glad I've shut of the television. I never saw Dexter and have been watching it on demand when I'm home.
I love having news free day!
I come here and WSJ, and a few other sites to find news when I want to.

The only good thing about this bill was that the senate had to work on New Years Eve!!!

Happy New Year to all!

Posted by: CarolT at January 01, 2013 12:45 PM (z4WKX)

341 Jason Chavitz is looking more Presidential everyday,,,Come on people you knew the Republicans were going to suck it...Realy ? was there any doubt Baaaaayner (the sheepish speaker) was not going to spread eagle in the end so to speak...

Posted by: Clemenza at January 01, 2013 12:45 PM (ILM+d)

342 >>and for other purposes."
Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 12:42 PM (YjDyJ)


That about sums it up.Definition of congress in 4 words.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 01, 2013 12:47 PM (aZ6ew)

343 I think our elites have decided to follow the Japanese.

They young voted for their fiscal SM, so go ahead and rob them. The like it. Of course, I expect them to cut my throat when I retire, but it is an imperfect world. I'm going to rob them of that satisfaction by dying on myy 65th birthday of an overdose of hookers and blow.

Posted by: Invictus at January 01, 2013 12:50 PM (OQpzc)

344 Like the man said:"Don't anyone know how to play this game."

Posted by: tygart at January 01, 2013 12:52 PM (sofSX)

345 From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Welcome to the Collectivist States of America.

Posted by: The sound of battle in the distance at January 01, 2013 12:54 PM (XJ6Zy)

346 Mitch and Bayyyyner both sold out long ago and the time is ripe to replace emm...

Posted by: Clemenza at January 01, 2013 12:56 PM (ILM+d)

347 @ChadPergram House R's say they won't make a decision on how to proceed on #fiscalcliff bill until they have a 2nd conference mtg.

@ChadPergram Xavier Becerra on why Biden is here: "He's here to do the same thing he did with the Senate." #fiscalcliff . Which was get mbrs in line.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 12:56 PM (YjDyJ)

348 Sometimes the fools in Dc make me want too speak freely...

Posted by: Clemenza at January 01, 2013 12:57 PM (ILM+d)

349 @ChadPergram Xavier Becerra on why Biden is here: "He's here to do the same thing he did with the Senate." #fiscalcliff . Which was get mbrs in line.
Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 12:56 PM (YjDyJ)


He was sucessful at Herding sheep, now he has to herd cats.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at January 01, 2013 12:58 PM (l86i3)

350 "170
Ette with interest rates so low, those with savings have to invest in
the market to try and keep pace with inflation. Essentially, the
government is forcing savers into risky assets since savings rates,
CD's, etc are next to zero.

Posted by: CDR M at January 01, 2013 11:18 AM (dKV5k)"
Well, that is not entirely true. Savers can buy gold and silver. There is also some risk to that as with investing in the stock market but as long as Democrats are in power chances are pretty good that any precious metals you buy will be worth more a year from now.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 01, 2013 01:05 PM (31Nrp)

351 This "deal" is the negotiating equivalent of a red-wine-and-whiskey hangover.

43 dollars in new taxes for every dollar in spending cuts. Phantom "to be announced" cuts that probably won't ever happen. Even better!

Vomit the whole reeking mess back up, drink a bunch of clean cool water, and go do something sane and healthy.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 01:14 PM (gqT4g)

352 Over at The Weekly Standard, faux conservative Bill Kristol said house republicans should vote for this bill! I am canceling my subscription before it runs out!!

Posted by: CarolT at January 01, 2013 01:16 PM (z4WKX)

353 Would someone who claims "this is the hill worth dying on!" explain how we stop socialism when we're all dead on a hill?

Posted by: Paul at January 01, 2013 01:16 PM (g4Saz)

354 I've been saying it for weeks - whatever can bring about the largely unlamented demise of the GOP in the most expeditious manner possible is, to my mind, a good thing. And this deal may just about do it.

The USA desperately needs a right-of-center political opposition, and whatever is the Republican Party, they're not a right-of-center political party any more - and probably haven't been one for quite some time.

Posted by: DocJ at January 01, 2013 01:17 PM (V20sy)

355 McConnell's lying in any case. Inflation through money printing affects everyone.

Posted by: MlR at January 01, 2013 01:17 PM (vR2l5)

356 Most will still vote for the national GOP again anyway, because "most important election everest111!!11!!1." They represent the DC class, period.

Posted by: MlR at January 01, 2013 01:19 PM (vR2l5)

357 @115:Here's my biggest bitch: The GOP missed yet another opportunity to beat the shit out of this lying fuck by neglecting to bring up all his campain promises.
...
Over and over they should have repeated this. "We're waiting on the spending cuts President Obama promised during his campaign."
...
They let the SCOAMF win the rhetorical war again. It's infuriating. They don't even fight.

Posted by: Warden at January 01, 2013 10:53 AM (0DlnM)
---

THIS!! In 150 billion trillion pt. font.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at January 01, 2013 01:21 PM (Y5I9o)

358 "The alternative minimum tax -- a perennial issue -- would be permanently adjusted for inflation."

Yay!

Except aren't those "adjustments" going to be relying on an inflation gauge published by the government, and which the government perennially games and tweaks and anodizes and polished to understate the actual inflation figure?

Why, yes. Yes, they are going to rely on precisely that.

The only way to get rid of AMT jeopardy permanently is to get rid of the AMT.

Which was a ridiculous device to begin with. AMT came about because Congress were petitioned to do something about high income taxpayers hiding out in tax shelters which Congress had installed.

Instead of doing the intelligent thing, repealing the shelters they themselves had put in, and cutting rates, Congress installed this crazy parallel taxation called AMT. And they've been fiddling and fussing with it ever since.

As Art Laffer points out, more people are employed in America with tax compliance -- an "industry" which produces no actual goods or services -- than work for Wal-Mart. We as a nation piss away a trillion dollars a year on compliance costs. Because of garbage like this.

Meanwhile, so-called "conservative Republicans" like Sheepner of the House John Baaa-hner allow themselves to be meekly herded around instead of standing up and roaring full-throated defiance of this crap.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 01:26 PM (gqT4g)

359 ‏@dcbigjohn Boehner won't bring a bill up that passes on majority dem votes. To get the majority he needs 120 Rs, depending on how many show up 4 vote

@robertcostaNRO RT @JFKucinich: 2 staffers just brought a 2nd rnd of coffee and doughnuts into the Dem caucus mtg - time to settle in ladies and gentlemen.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 01:27 PM (YjDyJ)

360 Another year, another trillion dollar deficit. What--me worry?

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 01, 2013 01:29 PM (P3dtw)

361 "Would someone who claims "this is the hill worth dying on!" explain how we stop socialism when we're all dead on a hill?"

-------

Someone still thinks we can stop socialism? My friend, we are living in socialism.

Posted by: Rich at January 01, 2013 01:30 PM (Aq251)

362 "Here's my biggest bitch: The GOP missed yet another opportunity to beat
the shit out of this lying fuck by neglecting to bring up all his
campain promises.
... Over and over they should have repeated this. 'We're waiting on the spending cuts President Obama promised during his campaign.'"

The Republican Party are thinking about matters like lawyers and accountants.

Bullshit. They need to stop doing that, and start thinking like swashbuckling revolutionaries. They need to learn how to do agitprop. They need to restudy Breitbart. They need to read and steal Saul Alinsky's shit.

Get a bunch of dollar bill costumes and dress up House aides in them. Then go hold a press conference on the steps of the Capitol.

Put one single solitary dollar-costumed person on the right, and 43 others on the left, and say, "President Obama promised to accept spending cuts in exchange for tax increases. THIS is what that deal turned out to be. $43 in new taxes for every dollar in cuts."

Simple. Visual. Understandable. Irrefutable.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 01, 2013 01:32 PM (gqT4g)

363 Does any one know the state of the real estate market in Greece?

Posted by: Fourth Virginia at January 01, 2013 01:34 PM (P3dtw)

364 Hard to disagree with Tom Sowell in the sidebar.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows we are indentured servants to the welfare state at January 01, 2013 01:38 PM (+jF/U)

365 Additionally, the evil Bush tax cuts have now been
permanently enshrined in American tax policy AND are now a huge plank in
the Democratic Party's platform. I dont think conservatives realize how
significant that is. Not even Reagan can claim such a thing. Bush won.
Think about that.

Posted by: Jaydee at January 01, 2013 11:34 AM (E5DLT)

_______________________
I've said this as well. It took 10 years, but finally everyone realizes Bush tax rates helped everyone, not just evil rich (mostly white) people.

BUT.....
It also has set up the meme which Democrats love, that is taxing rich people solves all the world's problems.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 01, 2013 01:40 PM (HDgX3)

366 Stop thinking about the GOP leadership as an opposition party.

They are not.

They are like a wing of the dems that require different sweeteners for deals.

Once that is exposed for those that would naively vote for the status quo GOP

they will whither and die, which will hurt the dems game as well.

The question is how long before that reality kicks in for formerly loyal GOP voters?

The sooner the better.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 01, 2013 01:44 PM (aZ6ew)

367
this is what i dont get when people talk about replacing the republican party: what difference would it make? lets pretend that we could succesfully establish a new party that would appeal to the american center-right. why would these people vote differently in the primaries of the new party than in republican primaries? why wouldnt squishes and defeatists win offices in the new party just like they do in the republican party? why wouldnt somebody like boner win an office like the speakership in the house caucus of the new party? if conservatives cant sway the republican party and its voters, why would it be different with a new party, that would definitely depend on the current republican electorate?

Posted by: Elize Nayden at January 01, 2013 01:51 PM (yik6t)

368 If you thought Tom Coburn would have know better then you haven't been paying attention to Tom Coburn, except superficially.

Posted by: halodoc at January 01, 2013 01:51 PM (Fzbp3)

369 ...the evil Bush tax cuts have now been
permanently enshrined in American tax policy AND are now a huge plank in the Democratic Party's platform. I dont think conservatives realize how
significant that is.


The only thing that is "significant" about this is that the American Sheeple will continue to drift further left, as they continue to vote themselves "free" stuff while remaining completely shielded from the costs of the government services they demand.

In other words, the majority of the electorate now firmly believes in "The Free Lunch", and "conservatives" are about to claim victory by making said "Free Lunch" into permanent law.

Swell.

Posted by: DocJ at January 01, 2013 01:52 PM (V20sy)

370 @ChadPergram R's in GOP listening to alternatives to Senate #fiscalcliff plan. Ldrs opposed. Told they may try to send back to Senate with amdmts.

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 01:54 PM (YjDyJ)

371 The problem lies in internal congressional rules to elect their leadership.

We have no say in who acquires this power and what they are able to do to hold onto it.

Once they're in, we're out.

No way Boehner and McConnell would win a popular vote for national leadership.


Posted by: ontherocks at January 01, 2013 01:55 PM (aZ6ew)

372 Disagree totally with Drew M.'s post. The GOP gets a lot from this deal. Tax rates go up only on individuals making more than $400K, not $200K as originally proposed. There's a permanent fix to the AMT (indexed to inflation) and the estate tax ($5 mil threshold, 40% tax above that). It's a good deal and a fair compromise. I just hope enough House Repubs and Dems will vote for it. Otherwise what we'll get will be much, much worse.

Posted by: sauropod at January 01, 2013 02:03 PM (G/vW6)

373 @DanaBashCNN Gop source insists boehner is not taking a position for or against the cliff deal. 2nd source says gop members want spending cuts

@dcbigjohn Per republicans, cantor is opposing the fiscal cliff bill during GOP conference. Boehner laying out "options." Not good signs at all

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 02:11 PM (YjDyJ)

374 The minute they and all the federal parasites got their raises you knew the republicans had caved. The theatrics were just for the media. Most regular folks stopped paying attention long ago.

Posted by: Caustic at January 01, 2013 02:11 PM (/b8+5)

375
$1 for every $41 dollars in spending cuts versus taxes.
Nothing is going to happen. America will go to sleep for another two years. We have lost control over our own destiny. And we did it with our eyes wide shut. The suits in control don't give a crap about us. At least 90% of them. They are lining their own, and their families, pockets and bank accounts.
As an adult working 40-60 hours a week, I will go to work tomorrow for the first time this year. I can guarantee you that for the next 4 years I will spend as little as possible (except for guns, ammo I got enought of)to buy whatever I need to survive. Mini Galt if you will, but it is at least a stand I will take.
GOP is dead to me.. Hello Libertarian Party!!!!
Boner and Mc"CON YOU"nell have to go this year.

Posted by: Andrew at January 01, 2013 02:12 PM (B4g+U)

376 372 Disagree totally with Drew M.'s post. The GOP gets a lot from this deal. Tax rates go up only on individuals making more than $400K, not $200K as originally proposed. There's a permanent fix to the AMT (indexed to inflation) and the estate tax ($5 mil threshold, 40% tax above that). It's a good deal and a fair compromise. I just hope enough House Repubs and Dems will vote for it. Otherwise what we'll get will be much, much worse.
Posted by: sauropod at January 01, 2013 02:03 PM (G/vW6)

Fair deal? No, slippery slope. Whenever you raise taxes on some, not all, you automatically violate the tenets of our government. Everyone should have to pay some tax, even if you are on the public dole, you should have to pay some tax. This is the only time people actually pay attention, when it involves their money.

Posted by: Caustic at January 01, 2013 02:15 PM (/b8+5)

377 None of this crap matters a damn. Not the anthill churning in this thread, any of it. The simple fact of the matter is that spending is so wildly out of control, collapse is inevitable.

Go ahead. Crank up a third party. Argue about the liberal media. Run in circles, scream and shout.

It's too late.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at January 01, 2013 02:18 PM (opLk0)

378 I find all this tawk about the Fistal Cliff stwangely seductive.


Posted by: Bawney Fwank at January 01, 2013 02:25 PM (XJ6Zy)

379 "broke R's tax pledge. Calls it "1 of the most consequential policy achievements of the last couple decades"

Regardless of the R's ineptitude, this is why I hate the SCOAMF so much. It's never about what is best for the country but what he thinks makes him look good. LIBTTG.

Posted by: FOAF at January 01, 2013 02:26 PM (Kz60W)

380 ""broke R's tax pledge. Calls it "1 of the most consequential policy achievements of the last couple decades""



It's actually not a "policy" achievement, it's a "political" one. Not that the fucking idiots working at the WH would know the difference. As a "policy", it's stupid and pathological in its indifference to reality.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 02:37 PM (eP0u9)

381 @robertcostaNRO Breaking: Leaving mtg, Rep. Spencer Bachus says deal will "go back to the Senate."

Posted by: 80sBaby at January 01, 2013 02:37 PM (YjDyJ)

382 "327
Maybe political parties can't save the country at all; maybe federalism can.

States
have been going quietly red for a couple of years now. They're passing
RTW laws and cutting budgets and, more importantly, are succeeding at
restoring their economies. Repub governors are turning down federal
mandates (accompanied by debt).

So, federalism. Yeah.


Posted by: PJ at January 01, 2013 12:28 PM (ZWaLo)"

That's fine, and there are definitely good things going on at the state level, but "Plan B" has to be secession, especially when DC makes a move to bail out the states.
And don't let any of those Team Blue assholes fool you with their BS about "red states" being subsidized by "blue states". That will all change once "red states" can fully utilize their commodity resources once they are out from under the thumb of the EPA and once the GOP voters in the blue states move from there to the red states to take advantage of the more friendly business climate.

Posted by: BS Inc. at January 01, 2013 02:40 PM (eP0u9)

383 Well, they're winning, and are probably going to continue winning for some time to come. The Republicans are, of course, Republicans. But there are some serious weaknesses in the arguments of the left, so, keep fighting. Go read a book today. Study liberty. Buy a gun if you think necessary. Don't give money to those of entertainment who intend to dominate you. Pressure your state representative to get your state into the hunt as a center of power distinct from Washington. Be respectfully, and educatedly, but obstinately, obnoxious to your liberal neighbor and her certitudes built on wisps of air.

But above all, think about what you are going to do to them, and not what they are currently doing to you. They are winning right now, and it is incredibly frustrating, and infuriating. It does not have to last forever. It may take years, but it will not last forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yZNMWFqvM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Get some skin in the game. Donating to the GOP probably isn't skin, though they have their uses. It's your community. Fight for it.

Posted by: T. at January 01, 2013 02:47 PM (ms4kd)

384 It is not a "third party" that's needed - it's a new SECOND one. Let Barry kill the Republican Party. Look at what voting Republican has got us so far. No solutions, just different ways to decide our own suicide.

They are NOT conservative. They don't argue for it, they don't teach it, they don't communicate it. Quit trying to see them as something they are not. Quit buying their lien that they will be, someday.

It's like wanting to eat a steak, but there's only two resturants in town - one that sells salad, and one that sells tofu burgers. Neither offers a steak, but if I decide to stay home, I'm threatened with "well, you'll never get a steak that way". I'm not getting a steak NOW, so quit boogieman-ing me. The solution - open my own steak joint.

Posted by: Saltydonnie at January 01, 2013 02:54 PM (XG4Sp)

385 Baldilocks, if you're still here, sorry for your loss. I also recently lost an aunt at the age of 95, the last of my father's siblings. You can at least take comfort in the fact that your aunt had a long and good life.

Posted by: FOAF at January 01, 2013 02:59 PM (Kz60W)

386 ette @ 160

Others have answered have your question about the hovering stock market quite well with maybe some minor differences in perspective. They all point to low interest rates.

Your next question then should be, 'What happens when interest rates go up?"

The short answer is KABOOM!

All assets are basically inversely priced to those interest rates. Others, please correct me if I am wrong. Even gold can crash.

Why are interest rates so low? Well Bernanke, as you may know, is keeping them low to correct problems caused by low interest rates!!

Make sense? You've earned a slot in the Princeton economics department.

The only good explanation for his actions is to buy time for the government to get its finances in order. All of us are frantic because it is about to pass on this chance.

Worse, they (the government party liberal lunatics like Krugman/Summers) are suggesting the government spend and borrow even more because interest rates are so low!

If that makes sense you can now join the Harvard economics dept.

This they think will help the economy and create jobs.

If you CAN't find any place at any time this has worked do not stop at go and place yourself at the Federal Reserve.

The liberal, too smart by half, lunatics think this because they read it in a textbook 30 years ago so to them it is obviously still correct. Obama? He propped open his dorm room door with the textbook.

These ideas are especially dangerous for much of government financing is short term. (A CFO in the real world would be fired for this. Instead consider yourself now the Secretary of the Treasury.

Double Kaboom.

People will look back on this time and wonder how it all happened.

I depressed myself and now must drink.

Posted by: Sefton at January 01, 2013 03:02 PM (qzxaJ)

387 You tried to help us out, and we junk-punched you to get free shit and our egos stroked. You said "think of the future generations" and we future generations pissed all over you to hang with the cool crowd.

Weep for our country if you will, but not for us. We deserve every unintended consequence.

Posted by: the backs of our grandchildren at January 01, 2013 03:06 PM (NocFh)

388
"It's a good deal and a fair compromise"

No, it's a disaster. And I've never been a hard-core "base" kind of guy, I'm a comparatively recent Dem convert to the right. The whole problem with this charade is that it has been *all* about taxes and the only Republican "win" on taxes was a complete extension of the Bush cuts. Butthatnever could have happened with the SCOAMF re-elected and Dems controlling the Senate.
Spending has *never* been on the table throughout this phony "cliff" drama. A "fair compromise" would have been some tax hikes accompanied by *serious* entitlement and spending reform. But nothing like that has even been suggested which is why there is so much sentiment for LIB.

Posted by: FOAF at January 01, 2013 03:08 PM (Kz60W)

389 Oh Drew, the sky is ALWAYS falling in your world.Those awful GOPERs can never do a thing right, and no matter that Barry O just had to run out the clock aided by Harry Reid, you, no matter what, always blame the GOP first.Like a broken fucking record.

Are you a Paultard? A Libertarian 3rd party jagoff?

Posted by: soupcon at January 01, 2013 03:23 PM (JQ9VE)

390 Posted by: soupcon at January 01, 2013 03:23 PM (JQ9VE)

If the Republican party was capable of doing anything right, Romney would be president. period.

Posted by: Caustic at January 01, 2013 03:30 PM (/b8+5)

391 Drew, there's a mistake in your post. You listed Richard Shelby as a "D," but he's an "R."

I agree with you on Jeff Sessions--very disappointing. At least half of my state got it right (Shelby).

Posted by: Outspoken Red at January 01, 2013 10:46 PM (lzwBD)

392 "Thanks for being my friends in an iPad, Morons and Moronettes."

*waves*

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at January 02, 2013 03:22 AM (A3ftE)






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