Guns & Hunting Thread (12-30-2012)

Gun Control's Self-Refuting Arguments

Damn Dirty Rino sent along a link to this great piece at PJM.

I personally believed in civilian disarmament until an acquaintance in law enforcement challenged my gun-banner’s assumptions with questions and points I could not rebut. This began a research journey limited only by my decision to exclude any data cited by the NRA. At the time, I was convinced only caring people like the Brady Campaign would present the truth.

Surprisingly (to me, at the time), I found no dataset proving civilian disarmament made anybody safer.

In response to Ezra Klein’s report titled “Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States,” below are eight fictions about gun control.

Oh, did I mention it was a nut stomping of a piece by WaPo wunderkind Juicebox Klein? No? Well that's just an added bonus, so read the whole thing.

This point really jumped out at me:

Fiction 3: “Gun Violence”

“Gun violence” is a crafted phrase to induce people into associating guns with violence. Using Ezra Klein’s logic, Brady’s “A”-graded, low-gun states should be the safest. But when collated with CDC firearms murder rates, an inconvenient correlation appears: more gun control, higher black homicide, lower Caucasian homicide.

(Crime rates = incidents per 100,000 population.)

One of the unpleasant realizations from my original research was my learning that the history of American gun control is that of racist oppression: banning sales to Indians in order to maintain dominance while grabbing land; ensuring free blacks remained as close to slaves as possible; disarming the Japanese before their internment during World War II.

Modern gun control still makes whites safer, while more blacks get murdered.

Gun control is racist. Tell all your liberal friends. Or acquaintances. Whatever. Also, somebody tell this clown.

Another good read by someone applying logic instead of emotion: A Reluctant Vote in Favor of Armed School Guards

Most Americans agree that dramatic steps must be taken to prevent the recurrence of a horrible event like that of Dec. 14, 2012. Just what steps should be taken is a matter of disagreement. After considerable thought I have sadly concluded that Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, is correct when he advocates for armed security in the country's more than 100,000 schools.

...


What happened at Sandy Hook was not the failure to plan; it was the failure of the plan. The teachers and administrative staff executed their school district's plan heroically in trying to save lives, some at the loss of their own. Police departments changed their policies after Columbine and now rush to the source of an incident inside a school building at great risk to themselves. But a major flaw in such plans persists to this day—namely that it takes just a few unguarded minutes for a catastrophe to unfold.

It's really not that hard, is it? Like LaPierre said, the only thing that'll stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

The only problem the left really has with this is that the proposal was made by the NRA. When Bill Clinton said largely the same thing after Columbine, it was the most brilliant thing ever.

Journalists and Guns

Lots of fun was had at the HQ this week in pointing out how ignorant journalists are of gun laws. You'd think they'd recognize this deficiency and seek to address it, but you'd be wrong.


I wonder, though, whether they're any more ignorant about guns than they are about any other topic in general. It's at this point that a reminder of Michael Crichton's Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect is in order:

Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them.
In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.

See also: Ezra Klein.

Gun Of The Week

What's this Semiautomatic Assault Pistol?


Marksmanship Award


Gun Of The Week - Answer

That picture, of course, is of the ultra-modern Borchardt C-93. And by 93, they meant 1893. To listen to the news, you'd think semiautomatic firearms were invented around the time the iPod was, not well over a century ago.

And as we all know, the semiautomatic handgun was perfected in 1911.

Christmas Guns

A great collection of ads via commenter 'RWC' on Christmas eve.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Posted by: Andy at 09:25 AM



Comments

1 What no sharp elbows?

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 09:29 AM (53z96)

2 Keep up them internet gun purchases, folks!!!

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:31 AM (XDC0v)

3 Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the
newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's
case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the
journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the
issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story
backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause
rain" stories. Paper's full of them.




That applies to almost all magazine and newspaper articles now. Journo-pukes are the dumbest assholes on the planet now.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 09:33 AM (53z96)

4 That is one weird-looking pistol.

Posted by: rickl at December 30, 2012 09:33 AM (sdi6R)

5 Ezra should confine his commentary to the aesthetics of sucking cocks.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at December 30, 2012 09:34 AM (txCfk)

6 That picture, of course, is of the ultra-modern Borchardt C-93.



Wasn't that the forerunner of the Luger? And a Colt Woodsman for $69???? That must be around the same time you could order a brand new M-1 Garrand packed in cosmoline unfired from Sears for $69.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 09:36 AM (53z96)

7 According to the ' Brady Grade chart ' we should immediately
dis-arm all black folks and those crime rates will
dramatically decrease...

Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:36 AM (rBK2Z)

8 Funny that Bob Owens popped up here. I just read this piece:

http://tinyurl.com/bbj9te6

/hat tip The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler

Posted by: rickl at December 30, 2012 09:37 AM (sdi6R)

9 Want to see a funky "gun"? In my hometown we have Higgins Armory, a big collection of Medieval arms and armor. I used to spend every Wednesday therein 5th and 6th grade.Attempt at link in name to the old school "gun-shield".

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 30, 2012 09:38 AM (tkoGU)

10 On the subject of gun control I'll repeat this post from previous thread.


Now we have real school security. A 6 year old is suspended for pointing his
finger. We now have finger control. Will a limit on the number of
fingers allowed per hand be next?


http://is.gd/EVfYnS

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 09:39 AM (53z96)

11 USAAmmo still has AR's at reasonable prices, for now. Cheaper Than Dirt has 5.56 @ $999/1000. That's a clue about what to think about this week in guns. Don't panic buy at panic prices and you should be alright. Walmart and Big 5 still have some ammo in stock at the old prices- if you've got a dog you better make sure you'll have dog chow IYKWIMAITYD. Have you joined the NRA and Gun Owners of America yet? You need to- Freedom Munitionsand USAAmmo still have some calibers and weights in bulk and the old prices. And that's your weather report for today.

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:40 AM (XDC0v)

12 ....the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows...


That's why I cringe when people cite media reports in their opinions and perceptions of any thing, incident or politician.

Posted by: Beto at December 30, 2012 09:42 AM (BAnPT)

13 What the hell happened to Juliette Huddy on Fox news ?
I haven't seen her in a while and she appears to have uglied up...Was it a Facelift ?

Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:43 AM (rBK2Z)

14 Well, I've never felt the need for a "tactical" weapon of any kind. I'm not an "operator" (whatever that means), I'm not anticipating a Taliban assault in Maine, and I'm fairly sure zombies don't exist. But tell me I can't have something and I'll defy you. So my plan was to buy an AR-15. Fat chance for now. Instead I decided on an evil tactical shotgun. Couldn't find one around here, so I did the next best thing and bought a department-store plain-Jane Remington 870 Express with a long vent-rib barrel and wood furniture. 870s are like 1911s and 10/22s - everyone should own one.

Now, this 12-gauge duck-hunting gun isn't the least bit evil or deadly. So I've ordered a +2 mag extension, a bayonet mount, and a Hogue Overmold stock in olive drab (black synthetic is more evil than wood, but I think OD green synthetic is even more evil than black). I'm currently waiting on a re-stock of 18.5" barrels with XS sights. When I'm done, my undeadly 12-gauge will be a sooper-tactically deadly 12-gauge. Especially when I hang the bayonet from the end. And as a bonus, I can shoot skeet just by swapping parts.

Congrats, liberals! You've made another evil assault weapon sale!

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 30, 2012 09:43 AM (celt+)

15 BTW, I'm ordering the Hogue stock through Amazon, and clicking through here to get there. There's actually quite a bit of "tacticool" stuff available there, so give Ace a cut.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 30, 2012 09:46 AM (celt+)

16 That applies to almost all magazine and newspaper articles now. Journo-pukes are the dumbest assholes on the planet now.


Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 09:33 AM



Journalists are also surprisingly incurious about the world. It's like they know everything wrongly.

Posted by: huerfano is a Cowboys fan at December 30, 2012 09:46 AM (bAGA/)

17 What the hell happened to Juliette Huddy on Fox news ?
I haven't seen her in a while and she appears to have uglied up...Was it a Facelift ?
Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:43 AM (rBK2Z)

She's gettin older and she likes her Vodka and smoky treats. Add that to the fact that she's goes through men pretty quick. Apparently those Big fake titties and bleach blonde hair come with a price no man is willing to pay.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 09:46 AM (l86i3)

18 Didja hear about that 12-year-old kid in Texas who saved himself and his sister by shooting 2 intruders into his home with an AR this week??? Well why not???

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:47 AM (XDC0v)

19 The NRA is right, armed guards are the only solution. Ask Israel. When I went last year I NEVER saw a school group anywhere with out at least TWO armed guards with M-16's.

You have probably seen the photo of the school teacher with an M-1 over her shoulder taking the kids into class. They are real.

Guns work. Wonder why are the Bank robberies we use to sell during the holiday season have stopped?

Armed off duty cops at every bank.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at December 30, 2012 09:47 AM (wR+pz)

20 long vent-rib barrel

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto

That sounds pretty damn assault weapony to me. BAN IT!!!!

Posted by: Bruce at December 30, 2012 09:48 AM (LAgnG)

21 Didja hear about that 12-year-old kid in Texas who saved himself and his sister by shooting 2 intruders into his home with an AR this week??? Well why not???
Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:47 AM (XDC0v)


I sure did, I shared it with my ron friends two days ago, Good morning Dave and other assorted wonderful rons and ronnettes.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 09:48 AM (l86i3)

22 Bought a 12ga. Remington 870 Express yesterday.

No 9mm., .38, .357,.223 ammo to be had at Bass Pro Shop. Counter guy said they had been super busy for thee months.

Took just 20 minutes to complete paperwork and get approved by State Bureau Investigation. Next up: Concealed Carry Permit.

Gotta love living in a Red-and-getting-Redder state. The citizens still call the shots here, so to speak.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 09:49 AM (KZi9D)

23 Sig P238 (.380 Auto)
HK P30 (9MM)
Diamondback DB9 (9MM)
Kimber SIS (.45 ACP)
Sig P556 (5.56 Pistol)
Marlin (.22LR)
HK MP-5 (.22LR)
Rock River LAR9 (9MM)
Ruger Mini 14 (.223)
Mossberg 500 (12 GA)
Ruger Gunsite Scout (.308 Win)

All locked up in a Liberty Fat Boy Gunsafe.

Come and get'em....

Posted by: Gun Owner at December 30, 2012 09:49 AM (84b7V)

24 14 Taro if you still want an AR USAAmmo has 'em. Problem now would be getting ammo for it though. I forgot to mention USAAmmo also has 30-rd AR mags still.

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:49 AM (XDC0v)

25
Gun control is racist. Abortion is racist. Public education is racist.
Hey. Maybe liberalism is racist. Ya think?

Posted by: Roy at December 30, 2012 09:49 AM (tiOTz)

26 Have neverlistened toanything Ezra "two pumps and a squirt" Klein hassaid and I'm not about to start now.

Posted by: Nostradamus at December 30, 2012 09:50 AM (vroI0)

27 You forgot the JPFO.
Ads from them are the best reminder of What. Can. Happen.

Posted by: teej at December 30, 2012 09:50 AM (dmcx3)

28 Thanks Sailor , I didn't know she was a lush , she appears to have lost some weight also...

Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:51 AM (rBK2Z)

29 21 Hey OSP it's a beautiful day no matter what. 2012, which really sucked in so many ways, is almost over. 1943 sucked worse in even more ways, and then what happened?

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:51 AM (XDC0v)

30 Decided to zero out the toy budget on a new gun.

Ordered a MSAR STG E4. It's evil and black at least, but a little short for a rifle. OTOH, I never saw the point of a full-sized rifle for a 50-60 grain bullet.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 09:52 AM (g8tko)

31 Looking at that chart it would appear the national conversation we ought to be having isn't about guns at all but rather why blacks as a group are so fucking violent.

Posted by: Life Goes On at December 30, 2012 09:52 AM (bS6uW)

32 Thanks Sailor , I didn't know she was a lush , she appears to have lost some weight also...
Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:51 AM (rBK2Z)

She's hunting again. Most women lose weight when they are hunting.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 09:53 AM (l86i3)

33 OK, I have an Uzi, AR-15 Russian round, 10-15 shotguns, Mini 14, 10/22, and a lot more.

They all suck next to this, my new favorite. 50 round amour piercing shells.

http://tinyurl.com/354hud

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at December 30, 2012 09:53 AM (wR+pz)

34 Was at a Christmas party and had to explain the 'rocket launchers OMG !!1!!.' to 4 different groups last night.

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 09:55 AM (FVWn8)

35 32 OSP
She's hunting again. Most women lose weight when they are hunting.


Well, then we should be discussing the guns she uses when she goes hunting.

Posted by: rickl who's a little slow on the uptake at December 30, 2012 09:55 AM (sdi6R)

36 - She's hunting again. Most women lose weight when they are hunting.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon.

------------------------------------------
I should pack my bags and head to New York and dis-arm her...
Least I could do for my fellow man...

Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:56 AM (rBK2Z)

37 BB, nice pickup. I looked at one of those but didn't like the ammo availability and price. And the armor piercing ammo is still restricted to military only.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 09:56 AM (g8tko)

38 Was at a Christmas party and had to explain the 'rocket launchers OMG !!1!!.' to 4 different groups last night.
Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 09:55 AM (FVWn


How did you do that, bring yours along for show and tell? :-)

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 09:56 AM (l86i3)

39 27 Great suggestion teej. I just joined. Lacheim!!!

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:56 AM (XDC0v)

40 BTW folks, using the crummy government numbers for inflation, that $69 for the Colt Woodsman and the Garrand would be $485 today (2011).


In actuality here is what gun broker.com has:


Colt Woodman running between $800 and $1400 bids.


Garrand: Only one up bidding at $950


So are guns going up faster than inflation, maybe, but not that much.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 09:57 AM (53z96)

41 So are guns going up faster than inflation, maybe, but not that much.
Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 09:57 AM (53z96)


I bid on a pretty nice AK, it was around $750, it flew past 1200 last time I checked.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 09:59 AM (l86i3)

42 Bleached blonde and big fake tits? Now that's a good morning.


Good morning Horde!

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 30, 2012 09:59 AM (IvVLN)

43 37 AP is only illegal in cartridges designed primarily for pistols. But check your state's laws, since they're all different. That's the law in CA.(!)

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 09:59 AM (XDC0v)

44 - So are guns going up faster than inflation, maybe, but not that much.


Posted by: Vic
--------------------------
According to DAve , they are....

Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:59 AM (rBK2Z)

45 Garands have gone up then. A few months ago you could get a 90 or 95% used one for $600-800.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 10:00 AM (g8tko)

46 "Looking at that chart it would appear the national conversation we ought
to be having isn't about guns at all but rather why blacks as a group
are so fucking violent."
--------------------
Pay no attention to that pachyderm by the recliner. It's impolite, don't you know.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 30, 2012 10:01 AM (celt+)

47 And the armor piercing ammo is still restricted to military only.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 09:56 AM (g8tko)

I have the FN 57 pistol also.
http://tinyurl.com/75t9g6
I just happen to find some amour piercing ammo before it was restricted about two years ago. Not much of it though. My stupid son went plunking with it this summer. I was not happy.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at December 30, 2012 10:01 AM (wR+pz)

48 Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:59 AM (rBK2Z)

I got a funny feelin there is no way in hell congress will be able to force through anything concearning gun or ammo control and a lot of people are gonna feel like they got screwed.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:01 AM (l86i3)

49 Thanks DAve, I will check on that. 5.7 FN availability still is an issue, I'll be happy with my 223 version.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 10:02 AM (g8tko)

50 44 In the last 2 months they certainly have, which is what I was talking about. That $999/1000 box of 5.56 was $400two months ago. What does your calculator tell you about that?

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:02 AM (XDC0v)

51 According to DAve , they are....


Posted by: AmericanDawg at December 30, 2012 09:59 AM (rBK2Z)


Well that all goes back to an article I remember reading in Guns and Ammo long long ago. It was about the Winchester Model 94. The writer made a remark about the cost and inflation that thought was pertinent.
He said that there was no inflation. A Winchester Model 94 cost a $20 gold piece when it first came out and you could still get one now for the same price; a $20 gold piece.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:03 AM (53z96)

52 Well, possibly, but I was going to buy it anyway, and prices for a new one haven't changed, still the original 2012 price list.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 10:04 AM (g8tko)

53 @22..Remigton 870 rules!

when you rack a shell into that baby, it puts the fear of God into Godless perps!

BTW just ordered a saiga 12, with 15 round drums. The 20's be all sold out!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at December 30, 2012 10:05 AM (j1xvD)

54 Garands have gone up then. A few months ago you could get a 90 or 95% used one for $600-800.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 10:00 AM (g8tko)

From what I have been seeing the ones in good shape have been running around $1,000 for a while. You have to be real careful buying one now because the market was flooded a while back (pre-Obama) with imported Chinese ones that were shot to shit.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:05 AM (53z96)

55 Stay off the lists if you can beçåuse if the Feds decide to grab your shooting Iron they have the lists...

Posted by: Clemenza at December 30, 2012 10:06 AM (ILM+d)

56 How did you do that, bring yours along for show and tell? :-)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 09:56 AM (l86i3)


Empty wrapping paper tubes are a great teaching tool.

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:06 AM (FVWn8)

57 48 I get the feeling SOMETHING will pass (looks like no interntet ammo sales and no more mags bigger than 10 rs. to me) and the only people who get screwed will be those who panic-bought and paid too much or ran up their credit cards foolishly. The rest will just have reached a level of preparation and political pragamatism that they should have been maintaining all along. And some will be making large money off of this situation like the house-flippers of 2005.

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:07 AM (XDC0v)

58 Empty wrapping paper tubes are a great teaching tool.
Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:06 AM (FVWn


Another example of why this is a smart military blog.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:07 AM (l86i3)

59 Here's a great Ticker by Karl Denninger:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=215441

I linked it on another thread last night, but it belongs here as well.

Posted by: rickl at December 30, 2012 10:07 AM (sdi6R)

60 I have a gun question for you semiautomatic assault weapon specialist morons. I was given a Colt 1911 recently. I thought 1911s were all .45 caliber, but this one is chambered for a "Super .38" according to the inscription on the barrel. At the Cabela's website they show several brands of .38 Special +P, but no mere ".38 Super".

I get that +P has to do with the pressure of load, but are all Super .38s "+P"? I don't want to use a cartridge that's going to damage the weapon.

Also, does anyone have any experience with this gun? How do you like it?


Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 30, 2012 10:08 AM (q4+Rx)

61 I don't think the House will sell us out on Gun Control. If we get any it will be another one via executive fiat and the ATF regulations.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:08 AM (53z96)

62 "Lacheim!!!"
Well, I don't know what that means. I presume it's good. My Jewishness stops at they are the people God chose to use to reveal Himself to us. Those who bless them...
JPFO is the group who came out a long time ago with the poster "All those in favor of gun control, raise your right hand" above a picture of Hitler doing the nazi salute.

Posted by: teej at December 30, 2012 10:08 AM (m9GfP)

63 Also I read that the Dulles Expo gun show is the largest on the east coast. Of course, read it in the news so I have to question it.

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:09 AM (FVWn8)

64 >> 870s are like 1911s and 10/22s - everyone should own one.

Check. Check. And Check.

Posted by: Andy at December 30, 2012 10:10 AM (OZPoa)

65 Posted by: teej at December 30, 2012 10:08 AM (m9GfP

'To Life!!.'

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:10 AM (FVWn8)

66 60 .38 Super is a special type of ammo specifically for that type of gun. Relatively rare, it's what they killed Bonnie and Clyde with. Very high-velocity, like a 9mm. +P. Unless it's sentimental, I'd sell it to a panic buyer and get something that'll shoot something that's much more available like 9 or .45. .40 has too much recoil for many people.

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:13 AM (XDC0v)

67 60- that is a not a standard 38 special.

Super 38 is also called a 38 ACP +P.

That gun should work with any 38 ACP, or ammo marked 38 Super or 38 ACP +P.

Never shot one, but it should be reliable.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 10:14 AM (g8tko)

68 66 .38 Super and .38 Special and .38 SandW are all different rounds and NOT interchangeable.

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:14 AM (XDC0v)

69 Regarding pro-gun rights visuals, nobody beats Oleg Volk. I hope the horde is familiar. If not, why not? Great photography some real babes sometimes.

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:14 AM (FVWn8)

70 I know a guy who hunted ducks in TN all season. He was a meat hunter if you know what I mean. He bought a new 870 every year. Shot the hell out of it, never cleaned it and threw it into the lake at the end of each season.

Always had a new gun.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at December 30, 2012 10:15 AM (wR+pz)

71 'To Life!!.'

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:10 AM (FVWn



Slainte!

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 30, 2012 10:15 AM (IvVLN)

72 Statists always take away the right to self defense as a means to expand the state. When one can't defend themselves, they have to rely on the state. Because the state can not protect everyone unless the state is all powerful and omnipresent, it uses incidents of crime or tragedy as an excuse, usually with the blessing of a fearful defenseless population, to become all powerful and omnipresent. The Fabians in the UK knew this and it has been playing itself out for the past 60 years.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at December 30, 2012 10:16 AM (KCvsd)

73 Apparently those Big fake titties and bleach blonde hair come with a price no man is willing to pay.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 09:46 AM (l86i3)


Except Rupert.

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at December 30, 2012 10:16 AM (txCfk)

74 70 I'm told that's why pawnshops are a great place to buy used shotguns in the months after hunting season.

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:17 AM (XDC0v)

75 If you can find it and buy it the Lakevilee Armory 30.06 ammo in 700 tins is really good..Fortunate every one is told to buy the AR when most caliber for 30=06 is plenty and a straight flat trajectory round Hell most rounds will give you lead poisinning


Posted by: Clemenza at December 30, 2012 10:17 AM (ILM+d)

76 All .38 Super is "+P".

There was an issue, IIRC, with firing .38 Super in older guns chambered for .38 ACP, which had the same case dimensions, so they added the +P to the headstamp without really making any changes to the loading at all.

Posted by: Andy at December 30, 2012 10:18 AM (OZPoa)

77 Except Rupert.
Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at December 30, 2012 10:16 AM (txCfk)

Good Point, good morning Skipper.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:18 AM (l86i3)

78 He bought a new 870 every year. Shot the hell out of it, never cleaned it and threw it into the lake at the end of each season.

Always had a new gun.


Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at December 30, 2012 10:15 AM (wR+pz)

Damn that is stupid. An 870 will function quite well for a long time w/o being cleaned. What lake is this and how deep is it?

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:18 AM (53z96)

79 Thanks RWC!
Of course, now that I've learned my one new thing for the day it's time to eat breakfast and start drinking.
Or get my second cup of coffee and come back here which is what will really happen. Not much of a drinker at all really. I figure I'm doing my part to keep prices down for you all.

Posted by: teej at December 30, 2012 10:19 AM (pozvt)

80 Oh, yeah, and .38 Special is different than .38 Super. .38 Super is rimless.

Posted by: Andy at December 30, 2012 10:20 AM (OZPoa)

81 I also have a Kahr PM9 pocket pistol and am in the process of getting a Baby Desert Eagle.

I think going to the shooting range will be our new "bowling/game night" in 2013. Gun skills are valuable, regardless of whether TSHTF or not and getting both me and the missus trained and confident is a good thing.

Unlike most of our neighbors, my family were not hunters or gun owners, though my dad had his service revolver, which I never saw and had no idea where he kept it.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 10:20 AM (KZi9D)

82 Obama voter asked me this week if I had any bulk 9mm he could get from me. No gun treats for people who voted for this situation: they voted for gun-grabbers who said they were gonna grab guns and now they're surprised that they're grabbing guns?

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:20 AM (XDC0v)

83 Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 30, 2012 10:15 AM (IvVLN)


Auf Dich!

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:21 AM (FVWn8)

84 http://bit.ly/UC30RB

C-93 animated video

Posted by: sTevo at December 30, 2012 10:22 AM (VMcEw)

85 Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:20 AM (XDC0v
----

I'd be in the hospital for laughing so hard.

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:22 AM (FVWn8)

86 Got a Remington 870 Express Tactical from my family for my birthday. I picked it out based on recommendations of an buddy who was infantry and used one in Iraq and several of the morons here when I asked like a year or two ago. I'm happy as hell with it. Went with the tactical because I'm not planning on getting into hunting any time soon and the 7 shots because anything worth shooting with such a weapon is worth shooting more.

They also got me a Blackhawk SpecOps Gen II stock for it for xmas. I like how it feels just holding it, but haven't had a chance to take it to the range to give it a go since putting that on it. I'm a side shell holder and a tacrail away from having a fully automatic assault weapon, at least according to the media.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 10:22 AM (G99e4)

87 Good morning, OSP.

DiFi is making a complete ass out of herself talking about "mass murders". Communist regimes executed 100 million unarmed citizens. Is that enough "mass murders" for you, bint?

Posted by: Captain Hate (dagny 2013 return tour?) at December 30, 2012 10:25 AM (txCfk)

88 BTW, here is one of those things that have been "gun controlled" by the ATF via executive fiat. They are an ugly shotgun which has been classified now as a class III weapon like it was a fully automatic machine gun.

http://is.gd/ttVqw2


Why? Because they can and its ugly.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:26 AM (53z96)

89 I have a Mesa Tactical kit on my 870. It has a stock with a gas filled piston that absorbs recoil, my 125 pound wife can shoot it without being beat up. It's a heck of a little invention.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:26 AM (l86i3)

90
So I'm reading Damn Dirty RINO's article linked above.
And so far I only have one tiny critique of it. Fiction 2too may be a bit of a Coorelation/Causation thing.
While I don't disagree with the premise that gun control laws lead to civillian disarment (that's kinda the point isn't it?) It's also likely that states with high Brady grades also just have less gun owners to begin with (thus those laws pass because most people figure they won't affect them.)
We get that around here a lot locally, laws get passed that are stupid (or actually not good) because people figure "well it won't affect me personally!" (See also: Tax the rich.)

Posted by: tsrblke at December 30, 2012 10:26 AM (GaqMa)

91 86 The recoil;-reducing spec-ops stocks are INCREDIBLE and completely change the complexion of shooting shottys. Cures reluctant shooters. Best place for 12-ga ammo right now is probably wallyworld and still at their old prices

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:26 AM (XDC0v)

92 Obama voter asked me this week if I had any bulk 9mm he could get from me. No gun treats for people who voted for this situation: they voted for gun-grabbers who said they were gonna grab guns and now they're surprised that they're grabbing guns?
Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:20 AM (XDC0v)

---------->>>
Look on the bright side: now you know someone that has a 9mm handgun to trade for food.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at December 30, 2012 10:28 AM (nYHk7)

93 Look on the bright side: now you know someone that has a 9mm handgun to trade for food.
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at December 30, 2012 10:28 AM (nYHk7)


More common sense from the horde.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:29 AM (l86i3)

94 Damn that is stupid. An 870 will function quite well for a long time w/o being cleaned. What lake is this and how deep is it?


Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:18 AM (53z96)

He would never tell us. I suspect he made the damn story up and sold the old one at the end of the season. He DID always buy a new one each year.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at December 30, 2012 10:30 AM (wR+pz)

95 If ever there was a face made for punching, Ezra Klein has it.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia, Pope Alexander VI at December 30, 2012 10:30 AM (AMoyz)

96 BTW, I have an 870. My only gripe is the one I have is a 16 gauge instead of a 12. Also have a Model 1100 in the 12.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:32 AM (53z96)

97 Blackhawk SpecOps stock users: Some Amazon reviewers say the fore-end does not fit the 870 ...is that your experience?

Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 10:33 AM (KZi9D)

98 Let me rephrase that statement about the street sweep above. Yes, it is a class III weapon, but they classified it as a "destructive device" like a grenade.


And they can do that for ANY weapon they determine has no useful function as a "hunting" weapon. And they can do it on their own say-so.


Think about that Morons.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:35 AM (53z96)

99 Have an old Remington Sportsman autoload in 16. Shells are not easy to find at all. 00 nearly non-existent.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 30, 2012 10:35 AM (4Mv1T)

100 96 "gripe is the one I have is a 16 gauge" This would be an opportune time to sell it high and buy something in 12. Lotsa people I know are using this situation to offload their boutique caliber stuff and buy newcommon calibers

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:35 AM (XDC0v)

101 "gripe is the one I have is a 16 gauge" This would be an opportune time to sell it high and buy something in 12.


Inherited from my father. Would never sell it. Besides new 870's aren't that high right now allowing for "real inflation".

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 10:37 AM (53z96)

102 91
Glad to know it's a good stock. Fired some cousins' after-market modded guns and the mods were hit or miss. And yeah on the Wallyworld ammo; ours just tends to be picked over all the time.

89 My sister is smaller than that and her favorite weapon thus far has been the 870 Tacticals with the default stocks our PD has. She was in Police Explorers back in the day and was checked out on her supervisor's weapons. First time they took the shotgun to the range she caught all kinds of flak from the guys, being the only girl and because the gun's about as big as she is. She put an entire magazine worth of shot into the profile target's crotch in response, too.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 10:37 AM (G99e4)

103 Regarding 16s, however, I WAS just able to sell my 1928 LC Smith 16 double for just enough cash to acquire a damn fine specimen of a locally crafted EBG.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 30, 2012 10:37 AM (4Mv1T)

104 97 I never tried nor wanted to. That seems strange to me. I believe it takes special tools to do anyway.

Posted by: DAve, who gets a cut of all internet gun sales at December 30, 2012 10:37 AM (XDC0v)

105 Watch a Mash-Up of Celebrities Demanding Gun Control (in Real Life) Gratuitously Using Guns (Onscreen) (vulture.com)

http://bit.ly/TqQYtz

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at December 30, 2012 10:39 AM (MSrqi)

106 David 'if I was a black teenager I'd be in jail right now for weapons violations' Gregory blowing his boyfriend Barry on Meet the Press this morning.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at December 30, 2012 10:39 AM (KCvsd)

107 I guess I have to fly back to the US with the crew.

I was really hoping leftists, could be kind and not shitty.

As my Daddy (WWII vet) said..kill them all, let God sort them out!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at December 30, 2012 10:39 AM (j1xvD)

108 97
The armature fit fine on mine when I put it on. I just liked the feel of the default pump better so I put it back on.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 10:40 AM (G99e4)

109 I'm conflicted. I like that people are standing up supporting our 2nd amendment rights and are buying guns and ammo like its the end of the world but I have to admit that I feel like the brother of the prodigal son.

Posted by: polynikes at December 30, 2012 10:41 AM (yDr5/)

110
I have a buttload of blackpowder stuff,which strikes me as a fine emergency backup measure.

My Remington shoots a .451 ball (238 gr, give or take) at 1050fps with 38 grains of 3fg--at pistol range that will certainly ruin your week. Lost track of how many think these weapons are toys, or useless. They will kill you just as dead as any modern firearm.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 30, 2012 10:42 AM (SAMxH)

111 I'm conflicted. I like that people are standing up supporting our 2nd amendment rights and are buying guns and ammo like its the end of the world but I have to admit that I feel like the brother of the prodigal son.
Posted by: polynikes at December 30, 2012 10:41 AM (yDr5/)


Why? I haven't bought a damn thing since this madness started.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:43 AM (l86i3)

112 several DEM members of the Oversight and Government Reform Comittee have filed a brief to dismiss without prejudice complaints on Holder re Contempt of congress withholding documents ;Fast and Furious.

market ticker

Posted by: ette at December 30, 2012 10:43 AM (nqBYe)

113 109 Tell me more

Posted by: Dr. DAve, Internet Psychiatrist at December 30, 2012 10:43 AM (XDC0v)

114 Remington 12ga. 870 Express at Bass Pro: $319.99. Background check: $10.00
Two boxes Winchester Super Target shells: $15.98
Tax: $31.08

Total: $367.05


Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 10:46 AM (KZi9D)

115 109 - I only charge 5 cents for advice.

Posted by: Lucy at December 30, 2012 10:46 AM (4Mv1T)

116 114 The ability to protect your family: priceless!

Posted by: Dr. DAve, Internet Psychiatrist at December 30, 2012 10:47 AM (XDC0v)

117 And you get what you pay for.

Posted by: Lucy at December 30, 2012 10:47 AM (4Mv1T)

118 I'm conflicted. I like that people are standing up supporting our 2nd amendment rights and are buying guns and ammo like its the end of the world but I have to admit that I feel like the brother of the prodigal son.


I look at it like this, when I see a herd stampeding I ask myself three questions.

Are they running away from something?
Are they running to something?
Are they being herded?

I have not figured it out yet.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:47 AM (l86i3)

119 maybe i haven't had enough coffee, but i don't understand the connection polynikes?

that those afraid of some sort of govt action on gun control are late to the party?

Posted by: ette at December 30, 2012 10:48 AM (nqBYe)

120 110
I've wondered about that 'toy' attitude in regards to the airguns too. Some of those can get projectiles of mass and velocity about equal to a .45 ACP if you're willing to drop the cash. There's a reason Lewis and Clark used one: could put someone (or game) down and they got 22 shots before having to reload. Even some of the nicer small ones are like shooting off a .22, which can completely ruin someone's day too.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 10:49 AM (G99e4)

121 114/6
Target loads are great for practice, but if hitting something larger than a quail, I'd recommend something in a #4 buckshot.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 10:49 AM (g8tko)

122 Outta my cold dead hands I tells ya!

Come and get em assholes!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at December 30, 2012 10:49 AM (j1xvD)

123 Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at December 30, 2012 10:39 AM (KCvsd

So he made it into work today?

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 10:50 AM (FVWn8)

124 119 No doubt. Their eyes are open momentarily and they'll close again soon if given half a chance.

Posted by: Dr. DAve, who gets a cut of every internet gun sale at December 30, 2012 10:50 AM (XDC0v)

125 Are they being herded?



I have not figured it out yet.





Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:47 AM (l86i3)

Better be prepared for herding.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 30, 2012 10:51 AM (AWmfW)

126 Posted by: ette at December 30, 2012 10:48 AM (nqBYe)

Yeah close enough.

Posted by: polynikes at December 30, 2012 10:51 AM (yDr5/)

127 A Colt 1911 in .38 Super is a neat gun. It screams Depression-era cutting edge hardware. Depending on its vintage, it could probably bring a nice price. I'd look into researching its value and maybe trading it for a bread-and-butter 1911 in .45 and some cash.

OTOH, if it's a newish gun and not so valuable, I believe the .38 Super lends itself to fairly easy conversion to 9mm and/or .45. In fact, I believe the 9mm conversion only requires a 9mm barrel and 9mm magazines. Just something to consider. I'm a freak for convertible guns.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 30, 2012 10:51 AM (celt+)

128 127 The conversion would cost more than a new gun in that caliber.

Posted by: Dr. DAve, who gets a cut of every internet gun sale at December 30, 2012 10:53 AM (XDC0v)

129 I bought by EBG exactly one week after the slaughter in Conn. BUT, I was already shopping for one before the SHTF, and it didn't change my timeline by one day.

No one likes to feel rushed into a decision to purchase something that they might not normally purchase in more "normal times".

Living in NC we've had a few natural disasters turn out our lights for 10 days in the past 15 years. Would I pay double for food in a mad rush the night before at the supermarket to feed the babies? Didn't have to, and it would probably chap my ass, but I guess I would do it, even knowing prices would be normal in two weeks..

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 30, 2012 10:53 AM (4Mv1T)

130 Glacier-

Plan is to have some Winchester PDX 1 Defender shells on hand for HD when not practicing at the range.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 10:53 AM (KZi9D)

131 I have not figured it out yet.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 10:47 AM (l86i3)



Many may be like me. Timetable for purchases seriously adjusted or always wanted/planned to purchase a firearm and recent events jolted them into action.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 30, 2012 10:53 AM (IvVLN)

132 Join the herd now to avoid the herd later

Posted by: Dr. DAve, who gets a cut of every internet gun sale at December 30, 2012 10:54 AM (XDC0v)

133 Was at a Christmas party and had to explain the 'rocket launchers OMG !!1!!.' to 4 different groups last night.

It is truly amazing how the easiest way to be uninformed in America is to watch the MSM.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 30, 2012 10:55 AM (xSegX)

134 "My Remington shoots a .451 ball (238 gr, give or take) at 1050fps with
38 grains of 3fg--at pistol range that will certainly ruin your week.
Lost track of how many think these weapons are toys, or useless. They
will kill you just as dead as any modern firearm."
------------------
Wild Bill Hickok used Colt Navy blackpowder .36s that were laughably anemic by today's standards. Oddly, none of the people he shot have come back to life.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 30, 2012 10:56 AM (celt+)

135 Borchardt? Anyone get that yet? I didn't want to cheat.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 30, 2012 10:56 AM (6H6FZ)

136 Dr. Dave perhaps so, Yet either i'm finally paying attention but i have noticed in the last 5 years or so the sneering general hatefest the media and our prols have been Openly comfortable with denigrating a large portion of the population with re those that want govt limited and non threatening to its citizenry.

But I have to admit i really didn't pay attention to politics until reading Obama's poverty act legislation back in 2008, out of curiousity .

anyway sipping coffee because my brain is rather sluggish again this a.m

i hate sleeplesness.

Posted by: ette at December 30, 2012 10:57 AM (nqBYe)

137 A Colt 1911 in .38 Super is a neat gun. It screams Depression-era
cutting edge hardware. Depending on its vintage, it could probably bring
a nice price. I'd look into researching its value and maybe trading it
for a bread-and-butter 1911 in .45 and some cash.


Mine was made in 1961 according to the serial number.

What's the problem with keeping the .38 Super? Is it just ammo availability, or is there some other drawback? I have other handguns so I'm not relying on this one for personal protection.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 30, 2012 10:57 AM (q4+Rx)

138 @ 133

Damn straight. Sandy Hook being the latest example.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 30, 2012 10:58 AM (SAMxH)

139
Many may be like me. Timetable for purchases seriously adjusted or always wanted/planned to purchase a firearm and recent events jolted them into action.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 30, 2012 10:53 AM (IvVLN)


Yes, exactly my experience. I will pay a premium now to get what I want if I think getting what I want will be more difficult/expensive in the future. I ran the risk/reward scenario and came out on the "buy guns now" side.

Hope I'm wrong, hope I'm "paranoid", hope this gun-grab fails...but Hope is what the other side has been selling, and I ain't buying.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 10:59 AM (KZi9D)

140 137 Personally, I'd keep it around if nothing else than to have an interesting/different piece.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 11:00 AM (G99e4)

141 "The conversion would cost more than a new gun in that caliber."
-----------------
.38 Super to 9mm should only run the cost of the 9mm barrel (less than $100). But that's after a quick Bing search. Maybe there are other factors I'm unaware of.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 30, 2012 11:00 AM (celt+)

142 oh I would like to add I had Almost had a come to reality moment during rodney king rots where i realized the police were not going to endanger themselves to much to save citizens.

almost, so yeah polynikes some of us are late.

Posted by: ette at December 30, 2012 11:01 AM (nqBYe)

143 Hope I'm wrong, hope I'm "paranoid", hope this gun-grab fails...but Hope is what the other side has been selling, and I ain't buying.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 10:59 AM (KZi9D)




Hope in one hand, shit in the other and see which fills up first, right?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 30, 2012 11:01 AM (IvVLN)

144 haha am i even making sense?

better stop typing until my brain decided to join the conversation.

Posted by: ette at December 30, 2012 11:02 AM (nqBYe)

145 I'm glad I did my panic buying in 2008-2009.

And it was panic, too. I'm both surprised and disturbed that we're not already in a hot civil war.

Posted by: rickl at December 30, 2012 11:04 AM (sdi6R)

146

Watch Jesse squirm about gun facts


http://tinyurl.com/Jesse-Jackson-dumbass


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 30, 2012 11:05 AM (69Mdf)

147 Citizenjournalists fighting back against intimidation using crowd sourcing..
http://tinyurl.com/cnu6s4s
Care to help?

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 30, 2012 11:05 AM (Yhu4q)

148 137- no problems I am aware of except ammo availability. And it's always fun to have one unique gun for show and tell.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 11:06 AM (g8tko)

149 18 Didja hear about that 12-year-old kid in Texas who saved himself and his sister by shooting 2 intruders into his home with an AR this week??? Well why not???
Posted by: DAve, at December 30, 2012 09:47
-------
DAve,
I saw this one though, but yes...probably didn't make the national news only local: http://v.ly/heG
----
12 year old girl shoots intruder with AR. Bryan County, OK. Just north of Dallas in OK...you know the county with the big casino.
----This may be the one you are referring too.
............
Also, this morning a Fort Worth woman stopped an intruder (doesn't say if she had an AR-15)
http://v.ly/heH
---as a bonus on this last one, a picture of the reporter is provided. Not quite as hawt as Juliette Huddy...

Posted by: John Stark Dark at December 30, 2012 11:07 AM (0JB89)

150 I don't regard black-powder firearms as toys. It's just that modern ammunition packages the bullet, propellant and primer in a nifty watertight cartridge case. With a black powder weapon, all those components are rattling around loose and susceptible to bad weather.

As far as the .36 Navy being underpowered by today's standards, something to consider is that most people were significantly smaller in 1870's America than now.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at December 30, 2012 11:07 AM (nYHk7)

151
oops, it was one of Andy's links. Eh, Breitbart only read the comments.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 30, 2012 11:08 AM (69Mdf)

152 First time they took the shotgun to the range she caught all kinds of flak from the guys, being the only girl and because the gun's about as big as she is. She put an entire magazine worth of shot into the profile target's crotch in response, too.
Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 10:37 AM (G99e4)





Heh. Your sister sounds like a real pistol, if you'll excuse the pun. 'ette material, even. Get her to pop her head in here and say hi.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 30, 2012 11:09 AM (NjJzM)

153 Also, this morning a Fort Worth woman stopped an intruder (doesn't say if she had an AR-15)

http://v.ly/heH

---as a bonus on this last one, a picture of the reporter is provided. Not quite as hawt as Juliette Huddy...

Posted by: John Stark Dark at December 30, 2012 11:07 AM (0JB89)

To simplify for the media , every defense action is with a AR-15...

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 30, 2012 11:10 AM (AWmfW)

154 "What's the problem with keeping the .38 Super? Is it just ammo availability, or is there some other drawback?"
---------------
No problem at all, it's a neat cartridge, and if you've got other guns to play with, keep it as is. If I had one as an ONLY gun, I'd go 9mm just to take advantage of cheaper ammo with more choices.

Be aware that .38 Supers have a hit-or-miss reputation for accuracy (they headspace on the rim rather than the case mouth). But as a historic piece for shits and giggles, it's fine. If you get into handloading, it's even better.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 30, 2012 11:12 AM (celt+)

155 Sat on my ass for 6 months hemming and hawing weather to buy a mini 30 7.62 to finish y assortment. Sheesh...

Posted by: owlpellets at December 30, 2012 11:15 AM (dmEoV)

156 After considerable thought I have sadly concluded that Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, is correct when he advocates for armed security in the country's more than 100,000 schools.

*****

This illustrates one of the biggest problems of the Left...emotion not only influences the analysis, it drives the analysis. Why would the writer be sad? Only one reason, because his predetermined narrative was demonstrably false.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 30, 2012 11:15 AM (1OZSU)

157 What's the problem with keeping the .38 Super? Is it just ammo availability, or is there some other drawback? I have other handguns so I'm not relying on this one for personal protection.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 30, 2012 10:57 AM (q4+Rx)

------------>>>
Difficulty in getting .38 Super is really the only drawback. The cartridge also presents some difficulties in handloading because of the way it headspaces (the case has a distinct taper). The handgun itself should be fine.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at December 30, 2012 11:16 AM (nYHk7)

158 Full auto for all and explosive rounds too

Posted by: occam at December 30, 2012 11:17 AM (bNPll)

159 My mother asked my wife to go take a gun safety and shooting class.

My wife who for historical reasons is totally spooked by guns, is considering it.

That's progress.

Posted by: Your Moron pal, Truman North at December 30, 2012 11:17 AM (I2LwF)

160 - "Lots of fun was had at the HQ this week in pointing out how ignorant journalists are of gun laws. You'd think they'd recognize this deficiency and seek to address it, but you'd be wrong."

Leftism is a mental disorder, not a legitimate political ideology, so it's not at all surprising the political left has no interest in becoming more informed about gun laws and related issues. They're emoting, not engaging in a serious policy discussion.

A related point is the staggering disconnect between left-wing high dudgeon mode about guns on the one hand and their lack of any real concern on the other hand with such items as terrorism. This might be the most stark and telling example of the cognitive dissonance inherent in leftism.

Deranged kid shoots up a school, killing a couple of dozen, in a state with strict local and statewide "gun control" regulations and liberals in the media-academe-Internet-Democrat complex instantly clamor for more gun control. "Something must be done!" Al Qaeda on 9/11 kills 3,000 and before the bodies all were located much less buried liberals in the media-academe-Internet-Democrat complex pedantically were warning us about "civil liberties," suggesting if not overtly alleging it was America's fault, and not so subtlety insinuating that efforts to prevent another mass casualties attack really were pretexts for racism and imperialism.

If that dichotomy is not proof positive that leftism is a mental disease I'm not sure what would qualify.

We've survived a lot as a country. Various wars. Two world wars. A pandemic. Many recessions. Natural disasters. Crashes. A full-fledged depression. But we might not actually survive the de facto pestilence of having liberals in power.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at December 30, 2012 11:17 AM (r2PLg)

161 154- he said that was a 1961, by then they should be spacing off the case mouth, I thought that had pretty much fixed the accuracy issues. Not sure about the reloading concerns.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 11:18 AM (g8tko)

162
Vermont is one deepest blue states in the Union. The paradox is we have virtually no gun control laws. This is because of the rural nature of the state. Hunting has long been a ritual here, for sport and venison. Second, even the most ardent progressive living in his trophy home miles out on a back country road knows that if a band of hooligans decide to pay his home a nighttime visit, the sheriff or state police aren't going to be there for some time.
Ironically it was the Vermont NRA that gave socialist Bernie Sanders the start of his Washington political career. After RINO Rep. Peter Smith cast a vote in the house in favor of some anti-gun legislation, the cry became anyone but Smith. Guns are the third rail of Vermont politics which is why Sanders, Leahy, and Welch have always treaded lightly on the subject. At least for now.
Just to note, Vermont is considered the 2nd safest state in the Union (just behind New Hampshire). And (something progressives hate to mention) the state with the nations lowest minority population per capita.

Posted by: deepred at December 30, 2012 11:20 AM (YmACv)

163 1911 in .39 Super is a great gun. Ammo can be a little hard to find but you can stock up on it just like anything else. All of the major manufacturers such as Winchester, PMC, Fiocchi, American Eagle still have it. There isn't a lot of competition for it either. If you have a choice, though, always go for the most popular calibers because if everything falls apart those are the ones you are going to find because they are so common. That puts 9mm. .45 ACP, and .357 (for the .38 Sp option) at the top of the handgun desirability list.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 30, 2012 11:20 AM (6H6FZ)

164 @147

Wow, that link to the editor is creepy. The street view of her house is sort of sad. Obviously they don't pay much. The sub division is next to the interstate and the houses all look pretty low middle class to me.

BUT, she does own a red VW convertible, so she has her priorities in order. Note the family picture? The son has his hat on backwards aka Yankee Thug look. She looks like she has been rode pretty hard.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at December 30, 2012 11:21 AM (wR+pz)

165 I wonder, though, whether they're any more ignorant about guns than they are about any other topic in general.



Ummm . . . No! I've been 'interviewed' several times about news in my area of medical expertise. The story always comes out with the exact same misconceptions and histrionic sensationalism that I tried to correct in the interview. The story was a done deal before the tape rolled.

Reporters are either stupid or manipulative.

Or both. Yeah I'm going with both.

Posted by: Just sayin' at December 30, 2012 11:22 AM (Ps6L7)

166 "Lots of fun was had at the HQ this week in pointing out how ignorant
journalists are of gun laws. You'd think they'd recognize this
deficiency and seek to address it, but you'd be wrong."



As I said earlier, Jorno's are equally ignorant on all subjects. They have no interest in improving their knowledge on anything.


All they need to do is parrot the talking points they get from the commie party and the Choom King.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 11:24 AM (53z96)

167 @162

Just to note, Vermont is considered the 2nd safest state in the Union
(just behind New Hampshire). And (something progressives hate to
mention) the state with the nations lowest minority population per
capita.


DOG WHISTLE ALERT! RACIST!!

Posted by: MSM Spin doctors at December 30, 2012 11:24 AM (wR+pz)

168 38 Sup was really big a few years back for competition shooters who wanted a 1911 that didn't recoil as much as the 45 Autos but would still make the minimum power factor for the competition.

As to ammo, reloading is almost a requirement, simply because of the availability issues for factory ammo. Luckily, availability of components hasn't been much of a problem, historically.

Oh, and 38 Sup is hugely popular with shooters of Mexican heritage, because Mexico bans firearms in military calibers. So 1911s in Mex are mostly 38 Sup, and have become part of the culture which is brought over the border with Mexican immigrants.

Definitely a keeper, even if just as a cool range-only gun.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 30, 2012 11:25 AM (NjJzM)

169 @ 160 yeah we will, because we have the will

Posted by: Clemenza at December 30, 2012 11:25 AM (ILM+d)

170 Damn it's cold.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at December 30, 2012 11:25 AM (wR+pz)

171 Watch a Mash-Up of Celebrities Demanding Gun Control (in Real Life) Gratuitously Using Guns (Onscreen) (vulture.com)

Hollywood, several years ago, made a conscious decision to get smoking out of the movies and TV. I don't know that you can find a(n American) movie or TV show in the last 20 years that isn't rated R that has smoking in it. And even then very rarely.

They do this because they think they're influential and they get imitated.

Well, they are and they do.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 30, 2012 11:26 AM (xSegX)

172 ...and today is the last day to get out to the "Original" Ft Worth gunshow... http://to.ly/i4eu

Posted by: John Stark Dark at December 30, 2012 11:26 AM (0JB89)

173 Reporter accuracy: Two newspaper puff pieces were done about me early in my career because of the low income population we were treating. Both were full of embarrassing exaggerations and the major points were all wrong or screwed up some way. My friends ribbed me for almost two years afterward.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 30, 2012 11:27 AM (6H6FZ)

174 I've decided that my stock response to the leftist argument that no one "needs" a gun like an AR-15 is going to be: "Well, no one "needs" anal sex either. So can we go back to outlawing that? Especially since in the last 40 years more American civilians have been killed by anal sex than by rifles."

Posted by: somebody else, not me at December 30, 2012 11:27 AM (nZvGM)

175 Full auto for all and explosive rounds too

Posted by: occam at December 30, 2012 11:17 AM (bNPll)

Full-auto is wildly inaccurate, except in the hands of a very well trained soldier or marine.

two-shot or three-shot selector is the way to go I think.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 30, 2012 11:27 AM (GsoHv)

176 To simplify for the media , every defense action is with a AR-15...
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 30, 2012 11:10 AM (AWmfW)

What is this 'defensive action' of which you speak?

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 11:28 AM (2dwTK)

177 @175 well trained + 1 shot...

Posted by: Clemenza at December 30, 2012 11:29 AM (ILM+d)

178 Posted by: somebody else, not me at December 30, 2012 11:27 AM (nZvGM)

Hah! This is great! I am stealing this and calling it my own.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 30, 2012 11:29 AM (GsoHv)

179 @175

I totally agree. I shot some full auto M-4s down at Ft Bragg this spring. The guns goes everywhere. Total waste of ammo.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at December 30, 2012 11:29 AM (wR+pz)

180 drinking thread up

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 11:31 AM (53z96)

181 @179 if your shooter 240 LBS it is more effective

Posted by: Clemenza at December 30, 2012 11:31 AM (ILM+d)

182 >>My wife who for historical reasons is totally spooked by guns, is considering it. That's progress<<

So is my wife

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 30, 2012 11:32 AM (Yhu4q)

183 After considerable thought I have sadly concluded that Wayne
LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, is
correct when he advocates for armed security in the country's more than
100,000 schools.>>

I wonder if he was as sad when Clinton said the same thing?

http://tinyurl.com/awanu2o

From John Lott's blog

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 30, 2012 11:33 AM (Y6HTt)

184 >>My wife who for historical reasons is totally spooked by guns, is considering it. That's progress

So is my wife

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 30, 2012 11:32 AM (Yhu4q)

Ditto, although she has come around.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 30, 2012 11:34 AM (l86i3)

185 Wife bought an 870 express 20. 8 brothers. Shot it all her life. Doesn't miss many clays. Stocked up on ammo for it months ago. Thought id get the same at Wally. $299 plus $30 rebate through tomorrow. I am thinking same for me instead of 12 so we stock one gauge ammo. Thoughts?

Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:35 AM (XLuH2)

186 184 >>My wife who for historical reasons is totally spooked by guns, is considering it. That's progress

So is my wife

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 30, 2012 11:32 AM (Yhu4q)

-------
I was fortunate, my wife came with a complete set....and keeps trying to get me to buy more.

Posted by: John Stark Dark at December 30, 2012 11:38 AM (0JB89)

187 Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:35 AM (XLuH2)

Makes sense, but having two different gauges (sort of) doubles your chances of finding ammo.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 30, 2012 11:38 AM (GsoHv)

188 "I was fortunate, my wife came with a complete set....and keeps trying to get me to buy more."

Posted by: John Stark Dark at December 30, 2012 11:38 AM (0JB89)

Ah...polygamy!

Wait, that is what you are talking about?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 30, 2012 11:40 AM (GsoHv)

189 The homicide rate in this country is skewed due to the black crime rate. I believe, of Chicago's 500 or so homicides this year, that maybe 20 are of whites. It's pretty much the same everywhere. Those European rates people crow about-factor out the black homicide rate and we are there.

Posted by: ejo at December 30, 2012 11:41 AM (C/Spx)

190 True CBD. And sounds like more 'tactical' options for 12 should I want to trick it out!

Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:41 AM (XLuH2)

191 Maybe.

Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:42 AM (XLuH2)

192 On Friday, I took my eldest nephew out for his first ever range trip AT THE INSISTENCE OF HIS MOTHER, my SiL. My Bro was working so he couldn't come out, which kind of sucked, I wanted him to be there to watch his son. My Mom and her husband (conservatives, but non-gun owners) wanted to come out, but the SiL nixed that for the first trip, because she wanted the kid to be totally focused on his teacher (me) without distractions. In retrospect, that was the right call for his first time.

Shot the 10-22 and the AR, and he watched me shoot 5 rounds through the antique Finn Mosin M39. Kid did pretty well at 10 yards, both supported and unsupported positions at the bench.

He was complaining all week about having to go, he wanted to play XBox with his buddies over the Christmas break (he only gets to play VGs on the weekends when school's in session). But he finally started to get into it when I shot the M39 at the end of the trip. I nailed the bullseye of a big 18" target at 10 yards (easy, of course), and he challenged me to nail a couple of 3/4" orange pastie dots I'd placed in the target corners. Dead center on both, and his eyes grew WIDE, with a big grin. Of course, I didn't tell him that hitting that target at 10 yards is easy for pretty much any shooter, but he was impressed.

When we got back, he was low-key. "Yeah, I GUESS it was okay.......", but I saw that grin and big eyes at the end of the day. I figure that he'll be begging to shoot once I visit again in a month or so.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 30, 2012 11:44 AM (NjJzM)

193 Ah CBD, I did not mean for you to kill your thread. It will keep the book thread clean and about books.

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 11:44 AM (53z96)

194 Www.Remington.com/rebates

If you bought an 870 express series recently u may qualify for the $30 discount. It also says "and ammo" I believe.

Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:45 AM (XLuH2)

195 Nothing at all wrong with 20 Gauge, especially indoors. You may find it more comfortable to shoot. I have a 20 Gauge over and under that I would feel OK with if it was all I had. My wife has a 20 Gauge Winchester pump kid's size that belonged ot our son. It fits her perfectly and she isn't intimidated by it. She is very reluctant to try the 12 Gauge Mossberg, mostly on the bases of the look and reputation. She learned on a 12 Gauge skeet gun.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 30, 2012 11:47 AM (6H6FZ)

196 187 Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:35 AM (XLuH2)

Makes sense, but having two different gauges (sort of) doubles your chances of finding ammo.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 30, 2012 11:38 AM (GsoHv)


Just had to jump in with my 0.02. I've always thought the same as CBD.

My collection includes 17HMR, 22LR, 9mm Makarov, 9mm, 38spl/357mag, 40S&W, 45ACP, 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 8x57, 308 Win, 30-06 and 12 gauge.

I figure that I can always lay my hands on *SOMETHING* no matter how bad the situation gets.

Posted by: Long Time Lurker at December 30, 2012 11:51 AM (DKneX)

197 Speaking of Bob Owens...this is a GREAT blog post he did about what would happen if Ogabe and his thugs try to come after our guns!!
http://tinyurl.com/bbj9te6

Posted by: Albie Damned at December 30, 2012 11:53 AM (Yhu4q)

198 152 She can be. It didn't help the guys that we've been shooting since we were old enough to hold a .22 and a lot of the time at the grandparents' we had to be armed with at least a 9mm carbine to deal with the feral dogs. One pack had large enough dogs for a while required us to go heavy (12 gauges and deer rifles. Headshotting the big one with the 9 just mildly concussed it and pissed it off). Damn cityfolk would drive out there and dump their animals when they'd get sick of them. Some get picked up by the farmers and woodsmen, but the majority die or become dangerous. Got bad enough a couple times over the past 20 years that Whiteman AFB has deployed armed helicopters to hunt them.

As for getting her on here: I've tried a few times since I started lurking way back on Ace's old site. She's not a news and politics type of person.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 11:55 AM (G99e4)

199 Having armed citizens guard children with deadly force does not generate votes for Democrats.

So, bad idea.

Posted by: eman at December 30, 2012 11:55 AM (EWsrI)

200 Kevin at The Smallest Minority has a reprise of a post he wrote in 2003:

http://tinyurl.com/abvjgxc

It seems oddly prescient. Or maybe it's just that the gun grabbers never change, and keep pushing the same talking points year in and year out.

Posted by: rickl at December 30, 2012 11:57 AM (sdi6R)

201 I'm comfortable with 12. Thanks gents. Makes sense to diversify.

Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:59 AM (XLuH2)

202 About this new gun control "failing"... we all thought America couldn't be stupid enough to reelect commie canoodling Barack Hussein Obama either.

Guns are still legal. Ammo and magazines are still legal. Accoutrements are still legal. You can still buy food relatively cheaply for storage. Batteries are available. Gasoline is available. The general traveler isn't harassed by regular checkpoints and vehicle searches. FOR NOW. This'll be remembered as "the good 'ol days"... or "the days before the men in black hoods started kicking doors in and hauling people away in unmarked vans".

They've tipped their hand. That is precisely what this President has in store for America.

Plan accordingly.

Posted by: Drunken Monkey's Funky Infected Carbuncle at December 30, 2012 12:04 PM (bsAS5)

203 I really don't think much will be done aside from the assault weapons ban Part 2. Democrats in flyover country will not vote for anything more. There are 5 or 6 senate Dems combined in Montana, Alaska, the Dakotas and Indiana Look at Manchin's 48 hour walk back for all the proof you need. And even the few RINOs left in the senate represent states that are gun friendly like Lisa Mukonowrowski - Alaksa, Lindsey GRaham, and even Susan Collins of Maine. Despite loving it some Obama and socialism, Maine is a rural, almost 100% white state. Gun control won't go over too well. I can't see dems getting 50 senate votes for any serious gun control bill.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 30, 2012 12:06 PM (HDgX3)

204 188. Ahh....polygamy.
CBD
------------
no...when I brought that up wife said I could only handle one of her.

Posted by: John Stark Dark - back from lurking the book thread at December 30, 2012 12:07 PM (0JB89)

205 As for getting her on here: I've tried a few times since I started lurking way back on Ace's old site. She's not a news and politics type of person.
Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 30, 2012 11:55 AM (G99e4)







Ah well. At first I was thinking that the 'ettes and your sis would get along famously. Then again, that much concentrated evil in one spot on the intertoobs is dangerous.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 30, 2012 12:07 PM (NjJzM)

206
Wow that USAAmmo is super cheap! Does anyone here have any experience with it? It's almost in that "too good to be true" categorie.

Any info would be appreciated!

Posted by: Terry at December 30, 2012 12:15 PM (VvdHP)

207 Quote from a NY Times article

"Mr. Kaufman acknowledged that actually banning guns was difficult. As
soon as one gun is outlawed, another pops up. But he argued that
symbolism itself was important. “You send a message,” he said, “when you
don’t do anything.”

This is a former flunky that worked for Joe Biden. He admits gun control doesn't do anything. But hey let's do it anyway to send a message. The liberal mindset in a nutshell.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 30, 2012 12:15 PM (HDgX3)

208 194 Www.Remington.com/rebates

If you bought an 870 express series recently u may qualify for the $30 discount. It also says "and ammo" I believe.
Posted by: Guido 'ShitStalks with wolves' at December 30, 2012 11:45 AM (XLuH2)


Well, that helps me out nicely! Thanks!

Posted by: ChampionCapua at December 30, 2012 12:20 PM (KZi9D)

209 206 I agree Terry. Checked it out yesterday when DAve started pimping it. Thinking of buying a couple of mags for the new AR but there description says finish will be scuffed up but claim they are new. Also decent prices on survival food. May give it a try, we'll see.

Posted by: weirdflunky 'cause i before e is bs at December 30, 2012 12:22 PM (tlhtD)

210 Do we have "armed" security at the mebassy in Yemen now?


Al Qaeda’s branch in Yemen is offering a bounty of gold worth $160,000
to anyone who kills Gerald M. Feierstein, the U.S. ambassador to Yemen.



They probably have a "buzz door" with a glass window like the CT school and a guard with a night stick.

http://is.gd/jkNHly

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 12:27 PM (53z96)

211
209description says finish will be scuffed up but claim they are new. Also decent prices on survival food. May give it a try, we'll see.

I Want to believe, but I'm trying to stay in the "trust but verify" camp...

Posted by: Terry at December 30, 2012 12:28 PM (VvdHP)

212 Sharp elbows up

Posted by: Vic at December 30, 2012 12:29 PM (53z96)

213 211 Buying on faith over internet thingy is sometimes a crapshoot.

Posted by: weirdflunky 'cause i before e is bs at December 30, 2012 12:30 PM (tlhtD)

214 http://bit.ly/VjauWQ

Nice gun facts page.

Posted by: sTevo at December 30, 2012 12:35 PM (VMcEw)

215 I'm glad to see the Dems push gun control in the Senate, because it won't go anywhere, and it's a loser for the Dems, as it was in the '94 midterms. And Lord knows the GOP can't do anything positive for itself, so maybe the Dems can do a little self-damage.

If the GOP was smart, which of course it isn't, it would counter with bills promoting MORE gun rights, like mandatory CCW reciprocity.

Posted by: I Work for Dick Jones at December 30, 2012 12:53 PM (MSrqi)

216 215 The most telling phrase in that comment "If the GOP was smart," pretty much says it all.

Posted by: weirdflunky 'cause i before e is bs at December 30, 2012 01:01 PM (tlhtD)

217 Was at a Christmas party and had to explain the 'rocket launchers OMG !!1!!.' to 4 different groups last night.


Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 09:55 AM



Yeah last time I had to do that I just called it a big tampon applicator. The tampon was long gone, and all that was left is the worthless tube.

Posted by: Berserker at December 30, 2012 01:04 PM (FMbng)

218 Just found out from my son that there was a huge discussion about gun control while I was out running errands over Christmas. Apparently, everyone in my (supposedly conservative) family supports it.

Because those nice folks on Good Morning America were talking about it and that NRA guy was just so non-repentant! The bastard! He totally should have apologized for shooting all of those kids.

head/desk
(I hates the media.)

Posted by: Book at December 30, 2012 01:11 PM (WpcKa)

219
You see how the left is using one of its old languagetricks to reframe the debate?

It's no longer gun-control measures, now it's gun-violence measures, and who could be against trying to limit violence?

Posted by: sanity at December 30, 2012 01:11 PM (RVjIg)

220 Posted by: sanity

Oh hell. Would have been nice if someone had stopped the guy with some gun violence.

Posted by: Book at December 30, 2012 01:14 PM (WpcKa)

221
@167
What can I say? It is what it is.

Posted by: deepred at December 30, 2012 01:24 PM (YmACv)

222 Regarding the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect: I am in my mid fifties and can attest that without fail, every media story I have first hand knowledge of, whether print or TV media, got certain pertinent facts of the story wrong. This was something I learned back when I was 20 years old and was personally involvedin an incident with an unhinged homeowner and a shotgun. It has repeated itself ever since and I have always read or watched the news with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Posted by: Bill R. at December 30, 2012 01:31 PM (QnRSM)

223 The issue is not that black homicide rates go up but that white homicide rates go up as well. Gun control contributes to disarming the victim population. Of course black homicides go up more as the crime goes up as blacks commit much more crime than whites.

Posted by: Federale at December 30, 2012 01:58 PM (nAKXq)

224 25 Gun control is racist. Abortion is racist. Public education is racist.
Hey. Maybe liberalism is racist. Ya think?
-
How many issues has the right won by adopting the terminology and assumptions of the left but turning them around with "you're the real racist!"?

Posted by: The Lightworker at December 30, 2012 02:22 PM (62SBE)

225 My journey was similar to Howard Nemerov's. I started off believing the first assault weapon ban was a good idea and went on talk.politics.guns (before The Web) to prove it. I traded arguments, challenged assumptions and had mine challenged, sharpened my logical arguments to withstand attacks, tracked down studies, quotes, anecdotes, found statistical flaws and stupid math errors, poor sampling, reversed cause/effect, etc. I'm no scientist, but compared to the typical "journalist" I know 100 times what they do on the subject. There are NO researchers who started out pro-gun and were convinced of the data that they were wrong. There are, however, several that went the other way, and I'm one.

Posted by: Socratease at December 30, 2012 02:52 PM (OJaQT)

226 224 Maybe liberalism is racist. Ya think?

Well, it *is* promoted by Democrats, which was formed to maintain slavery. Coincidence? I. Think. Not.

Posted by: Socratease at December 30, 2012 02:56 PM (OJaQT)

227 But he argued that symbolism itself was important. “You send a message,” he said, “when you don’t do anything.”

Yeah, message received: You're an idiot, and you think we are, too.

Posted by: Socratease at December 30, 2012 03:00 PM (OJaQT)

228 “You send a message,” he said, “when you don’t do anything.”

Firearms prosecution under Obama down 45% compared to Bush. Thousands of semi-auto rifles put in the hands of Mexican drug cartels under a DOJ program resulting in hundreds of murders.

What kind of message does that send?

Posted by: Socratease at December 30, 2012 03:03 PM (OJaQT)

229 There is an old saying, "Everything you read in the newspaper is true except for those things you have personal knowledge of".

Posted by: FOAF at December 30, 2012 03:09 PM (Kz60W)

230 http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|829|1053

38 Super ammo for cicero

Posted by: wizardpc at December 30, 2012 04:09 PM (KRFJ9)

231 Halooooo


anyone here?

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 30, 2012 04:30 PM (jfSqj)

232 109
I'm conflicted. I like that people are standing up supporting our 2nd
amendment rights and are buying guns and ammo like its the end of the
world but I have to admit that I feel like the brother of the prodigal
son.

Posted by: polynikes at December 30, 2012 10:41 AM (yDr5/)

Successful movements look for converts - dieing movements look for heretics.
Be happy to be part of a growing movement and help welcome those who did not see the light as early as you did. Better late than never.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at December 30, 2012 04:48 PM (31Nrp)

233 231 Halooooo


anyone here?
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 30, 2012 04:30 PM (jfSqj)


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Posted by: RWC at December 30, 2012 04:55 PM (sqp6o)

234 121
114/6

Target loads are great for practice, but if hitting something larger than a quail, I'd recommend something in a #4 buckshot.

Posted by: Glacier at December 30, 2012 10:49 AM (g8tko)

Look at this before disparaging the effectiveness of #8 target loads.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at December 30, 2012 05:12 PM (31Nrp)

235 I have an Officer's Model Match shown by the tree in that ad. A sweet shooting gun that gave me many a 295-299 out of 300 in competition.

Posted by: sjh at December 30, 2012 07:10 PM (34o6f)

236
How close to somebody do you have to be to taser them? Don't some tasers actually shoot a dart or the like?

I've seen the close up tasers in person (have afriend whose brother is a cop) but not in 5-6 years; I assume technology has advanced, although when I assume, I make an ass out of u and me.

Would a long-range (25-30feet) multi-taser gun make school officials feel better about shooting a perp, knowing there's a much less chance of real permanent injury should said taser fall in the wrong hands?

Or maybe the tranquilizer gun we used to see on Wild Kingdom back in the day? Or a modern, semi (or fully) automatic version?

Posted by: the other coyote at December 30, 2012 09:54 PM (DmLAM)

237
Speaking of tranquilizer guns, met a woman at a party a few years back who was an animal control officer in Vail back in the '80s. Some rich New Yorkers wanted a black bear out of a tree on their place and wouldn't take her advice of go inside, he'll be gone tomorrow. So on the orders of her boss, she had to shoot it out of the tree with a tranquilizer gun. She said when you shoot a bear with a tranquilizer, they poop. And she got a giant dumpof bear poop. On her head. Then had to drive3 hours, each way, to the bear sanctuary with bear crap on her.

She has another profession now, but what great stories.

Posted by: the other coyote at December 30, 2012 10:02 PM (DmLAM)






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