Kabuki, Cont'd: Obama's Sending Over a Scaled-Back Fiscal Cliff Deal to Show the American People "Message: I Care"

He's taking us over the cliff -- it's his plan -- so I assume this is a poisoned pawn.

A Republican senator said Obama told Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, that the president’s plan would arrive on Thursday, and a Senate Democratic leadership member also said that was the approach being taken. Both sources spoke on condition of not being identified further.

The move would answer McConnell’s call for the president or Senate Democrats to make the first move in the political standoff over how to prevent or soften automatic tax hikes and spending cuts of the fiscal cliff set to take effect in the new year — just five days away…

I have to tell you, one really great thing about taking off when I did was that I didn't have to cover all this negotiation stuff. I am not a negotiator and have no grasp of what constitutes a good negotiation plan (only recently did I even learn of what "BATNA" was, from a coblogger, Maet I think), and so cannot evaluate this or that maneuver.

I think most people are in the same boat, and so offer up the same suggestion most of the time -- "Tell them to die in a fire! Let it burn! Remain strong!" -- and that's fine and all but the twentieth time one writes it it loses all meaning (at least whatever meaning it had).

I assume we're going to give in, as we usually do, so I'm not sure what point there is of pretending otherwise.

Posted by: Ace at 04:39 PM



Comments

1 Let it burn!!

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 04:41 PM (K5uaL)

2 Don't LiB. Instead SiD!

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 04:42 PM (53z96)

3 @ChadPergram Boehner sends Dear Colleague letter to members, advising them that Hse actually meets at 2 pm et on Sunday, Dec 30, not 6:30 pm #fiscalcliff

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 27, 2012 04:42 PM (YjDyJ)

4 what's SiD?

Posted by: ace at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (LCRYB)

5 I hate you because you're right Ace

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (IvVLN)

6 "BATNA"

----

They created the crisis for this very reason.

Let it burn!

Posted by: gastorgrab at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (FX38i)

7 I'm assuming the president's plan is going to be a bunch of bondage gear and a giant purple dildo, but no lube, with instructions to "bend over".

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (e0xKF)

8 Don't LiB. Instead SiD!
Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 04:42 PM (53z96)


---------------------------------------------


I give up. What is it?

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (K5uaL)

9 It will pass the Senate, Boner will make a few cosmetic changes to it and urge the House to pass it.


IOW, Republicans will fold like a cheap suit at Woolworth's.

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (53z96)

10 hey ms80s baby, I tried emailing you (an old address, maybe?).

Posted by: ace at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (LCRYB)

11 SiD = Shut It Down

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 04:44 PM (IvVLN)

12 what's SiD?

Posted by: ace at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (LCRYB)

Shut it down. Do not raise the debt limit this time and do not pass any more CR's. .

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 04:44 PM (53z96)

13 9 It will pass the Senate, Boner will make a few cosmetic changes to it and urge the House to pass it.

---

Urge, probably.

Will he get the votes? Doubtful if it is along party lines given the lack of support for Plan B.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 27, 2012 04:45 PM (e0xKF)

14 "as we usually do"

i don't think you can describe much of what Congressional Republicans have done with Obama as president as "giving in."

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:45 PM (60GaT)

15 what's SiD? Posted by: ace at December 27, 2012 04:43 PM (LCRYB)

Shut it down. Do not raise the debt limit this time and do not pass any more CR's. .
Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 04:44 PM (53z96)


------------------------------------------------


Okay. Then could we let it burn?

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 04:46 PM (K5uaL)

16 I figured when Obama's people were at $400k for raising taxes, and GOP was at $1 million, then they'd split the difference. At least that's how it works at Jeanne's School o' Negotiation Arts.


Posted by: jeanne at December 27, 2012 04:47 PM (GdalM)

17 Okay. Then could we let it burn?

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 04:46 PM (K5uaL)

My understanding of the LiB school is to give the Dems every thing they ask for. I am against that.

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 04:47 PM (53z96)

18


We Must Do Something!!1!

comin right up

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 04:48 PM (osU7Q)

19 my sympathy is with the alleged RINOs here just cuz i think the specific circumstances make a "never surrender" position stupid, and raising the top rate is not the apocalypse (doesn't mean it's good, but still.) there are future fights where i'll likely think a flat refusal to compromise will be the best option.

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:48 PM (60GaT)

20 Btw Ace, AtC has it right I think. This is less "Kabuki" and more "Bukkake" from the Conservative standpoint.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 04:49 PM (IvVLN)

21 I brought gas!

Posted by: maddogg at December 27, 2012 04:49 PM (OlN4e)

22 Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:48 PM (60GaT)



So this is not the hill to die on? Got it.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 04:50 PM (IvVLN)

23
I assume we're going to give in, as we usually do, so I'm not sure what point there is of pretending otherwise.

Because ifwe didn't pretend otherwise, then what would everyone do? Pretending allows the status quo to continue.

Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 04:50 PM (TULs6)

24 21 I brought gas!

---

Bring Sterno instead. We need to do a bust-out of the whole country.

Posted by: Henry Hill at December 27, 2012 04:50 PM (e0xKF)

25 What a lot of people don't realize is that this really doesn't need to get done during this congress. It's not like the world stops if there's not a vote.

Boehner and the boys need to tell the pederast that they want a real budget this time. A little delay or even shutting everything down for a couple of weeks isn't going to make that much difference in the plight of the economy. It's going to suck either way.

Make the dems submit a budget.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 04:51 PM (K5uaL)

26 SID

Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2012 04:52 PM (AUeaU)

27 yeah i did see it mentioned that if the cliff hits it'll take until mid-February to have any noticeable impact on the broader economy

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:52 PM (60GaT)

28

any speculation as to whats in Obamas plan?

my guess:
-tax hikes for the "rich"
-imaginary spending cuts over the next 40 years
- tax 'cuts' for the middle class (in the form of that phony baloney payroll tax deduction)

in other words, Obama is setting up the Republicans to reject tax 'cuts'

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 04:53 PM (TXseM)

29 10 hey ms80s baby, I tried emailing you (an old address, maybe?).

I have two accounts. Will send you an email.

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 27, 2012 04:53 PM (YjDyJ)

30 Taxes are going to go up. Elections matter and our side loss. The one actual policy that Obama campaigned on was tax the evil rich. Our side screwed up 10 years ago when they let the last tax cuts have the ability to sunset and here we are now. Somehow Obama and his media sycophants have been able to push the line that part of the tax cuts that affect the middle class were the Dems idea (like any of them have ever voted for a tax cut for anyone.) That's what they call bad messaging. When we go over the fiscal cliff and taxes go up for everyone it will also be the Republicans fault somehow. I have my doubts about more money being sucked out of the wounded economy and sent to the governent is the way to fix things. I hope I'm wrong. I doubt it. The only thing I know is whatever happens, the Dems and the media(but I repeat myself) will blame the Republicans.

Posted by: Shtetl G at December 27, 2012 04:54 PM (L2eC5)

31 Boehner and the boys need to tell the pederast that they want a real budget this time. A little delay or even shutting everything down for a couple of weeks isn't going to make that much difference in the plight of the economy. It's going to suck either way.

Make the dems submit a budget.

---

A shut-down would be instructive if Fox News and other outlets would cover a few specific aspects of it, such as the list of "non-essential federal employees" who will be working even if the government is shut down.

The guys who shovel elephant shit at the National Zoo are on that list, for instance.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 27, 2012 04:54 PM (e0xKF)

32 Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:48 PM (60GaT)

The problem was LAST negotiation, which made the Baseline for any non agreement everything the Dems Wanted...

Soooo.... just how do you now negotiate and win? When they already HAVE everything they want.... and are negotiating for MORE?

One thing the Repubs, and Boner, do not understand is that you start out asking for MORE than you really want... then meet in the middle... the Repubs started off saying raise revenues.... and the so called cuts? are cuts in INCREASES, not real cuts at all....

The only fiscal cons in Wahsington, are the out of power TEA Party folks... the ones Boner sidelined...

Posted by: Where have I heard that before?? at December 27, 2012 04:54 PM (lZBBB)

33 Posted by: Shtetl G at December 27, 2012 04:54 PM (L2eC5)

No Obama RAN on a 'Balanced Approach' of increases on the wealthy AND spending cuts....

Posted by: Where have I heard that before?? at December 27, 2012 04:55 PM (lZBBB)

34 my guess:
-tax hikes for the "rich"
-imaginary spending cuts over the next 40 years
- tax 'cuts' for the middle class (in the form of that phony baloney payroll tax deduction)

---

I'm going with these plus "a 30% hike in total expendatures by the government", which will get left out of any "OMG, the Republicans rejected tax cuts~!" story.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 27, 2012 04:55 PM (e0xKF)

35 Let. It. Burn. And when it's burning, let it burn more.

Posted by: Zombie Michael Jackson at December 27, 2012 04:56 PM (ndlFj)

36 32

i got the impression that the people taken off the committees were Ron Paul wannabes/perpetual bitchers from the sidelines, though TBF that might be an exaggeration

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:56 PM (60GaT)

37 Nothing that we do makes one fucking iota of difference in the eventual outcome

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 27, 2012 04:57 PM (R8hU8)

38 Shut it down I'm afraid is laughable, with the current cast of characters on both sides, and the electorate.

It Will Burn, eventually.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 04:57 PM (zpqa2)

39 Btw Ace, AtC has it right


Words to live by, people. Words to live by.


*hands over the cookies*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 04:57 PM (VtjlW)

40 Shut it down. Do not raise the debt limit this time and do not pass any more CR's.


I'm in. SiD

Posted by: fluffimundous at December 27, 2012 04:58 PM (z9HTb)

41 I can't for our lords to tell us what they are planning for us serfs!!

Posted by: My GF has big boobies at December 27, 2012 04:58 PM (F6KtL)

42 Burn. Them. All.

Posted by: Magnifying Glass and Congressional Ants at December 27, 2012 04:58 PM (ndlFj)

43 Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:56 PM (60GaT)

No, they were not 'Team Players'... which everyone knows just means that you don't always do what the boss tells you....

You know... the boss that keeps INCREASING Spending? The boss who said they would DECREASE spending after the 2010 election by 100 billion... then INCREASED it?

Posted by: Where have I heard that before?? at December 27, 2012 04:58 PM (lZBBB)

44 One more nail driven into the coffin in which the GOP will soon be buried.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at December 27, 2012 04:58 PM (2V39z)

45 "my sympathy is with the alleged RINOs here just cuz i think the specific circumstances make a "never surrender" position stupid..."
Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 04:48 PM (60GaT)

If there are two parties in a negotiation and one party is negotiating in bad faith, then the party negotiating in good faith can either (a) walk away, ending negotiations then and there; (b) continue to negotiate at a great disadvantage,knowing the other party is using the process solely as window dressing or ruse; or (c) force the party acting in bad faith to act in good faith.

Currently, Boehner is going with (b) since he doesn't have the leverage for (c). An old-school wheeler-dealer, (a) would never occur to him. I would recommend (a): stop the negotiations, publicly declare the GOP's position, and go over the cliff, especially since the MSM will ensure Republicans are blamed for any negative outcome no matter what they do. Might as well take a principled stand.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 04:58 PM (vtiE6)

46 #30 If I remember correctly, the sunset provision was the only way Bush could get the dems to go along with the tax cuts.

The GOP thought that the sunset provision was a good trade, since most congress people wouldn't vote to increase taxes.

What they didn't count on was the election of someone who could brainwash a large section of the electorate.

Posted by: Miss Marple at December 27, 2012 04:59 PM (GoIUi)

47 I forgot to mention, the cast of characters in this theater also includes the press.

This play was written by the press, and the version that has the govt shutting down also includes an Act with a weeping Boner. It didn't go over well with 2012 test audiences.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 04:59 PM (zpqa2)

48 With both the New Senate and the Congress more liberal in January, why in hell would obama negotiate? Anything he proffers up now he wants it all or as he says "For Free".

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 27, 2012 05:00 PM (79ueO)

49

Tachimawari: In kabuki, a fight scene which looks like stylized dancing

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 27, 2012 05:00 PM (kdS6q)

50 The only fiscal cons in Wahsington, are the out of power TEA Party folks... the ones Boner sidelined...
Posted by: Where have I heard that before?? at December 27, 2012 04:54 PM (lZBBB)


-----------------------------------------------------------


But they can still vote on bills. And Boehner needs each and every one of them. I hope the Tea Pary members live up to their name of being the scourge of the House.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:01 PM (K5uaL)

51 Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:01 PM (K5uaL)

Yea... so now instead of helping Craft Legislation, they are put in the position of only being able to say no.... so the Press can 'paint' them as obstructionist....

Posted by: Where have I heard that before?? at December 27, 2012 05:02 PM (lZBBB)

52 These Tea Party people are killing me! They're crazy! Extremists! Fiscal responsibility!

Posted by: John Boehner at December 27, 2012 05:02 PM (H84UO)

53
Boehner is part of the problem. How long has that guy been in office?

Posted by: My GF has big boobies at December 27, 2012 05:03 PM (F6KtL)

54 Saw Reid live on CNBC with his monotone rhetoric. Does he think the American people believe him after he shoved obamacare down their throats on Christmas eve?

Posted by: Caustic at December 27, 2012 05:03 PM (/b8+5)

55 Words to live by, people. Words to live by.


*hands over the cookies*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 04:57 PM (VtjlW)




*nomnomnomnom*


Thanks.


*hands over a couple to Polly and Chompy*


Good girls.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 05:03 PM (IvVLN)

56 My understanding of the LiB school is to give the Dems every thing they ask for. I am against that.

Considering the US is faced with approx $121 trillion in un/underfunded liabilities (fed, state, county gov), and $16 trillion in US debt, AND 51% of the FSA, it's going to burn regardless. It's only a matter of when.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 27, 2012 05:04 PM (GFM2b)

57 33
Posted by: Shtetl G at December 27, 2012 04:54 PM (L2eC5)



No Obama RAN on a 'Balanced Approach' of increases on the wealthy AND spending cuts....

I'm pretty sure his balanced approach was just taxing the rich. You know, everyone who makes more than 50k or something. If the rich just paid there fair share all our problems would be solved. It would be nice if we had some type of neutral organization to call BS but I don't think we ever had a neutral media.

Posted by: Shtetl G at December 27, 2012 05:04 PM (L2eC5)

58
If I remember correctly, the sunset provision was the only way Bush could get the dems to go along with the tax cuts.
Posted by: Miss Marple




From what I've read, it was because if there's a sunset provision the CBO doesn't score the proposed law in the same way. That way, revenue reductions don't need to be matched with spending cuts.

Because, heaven forbid Congress stop spending....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 27, 2012 05:04 PM (kdS6q)

59 "You know... the boss that keeps INCREASING Spending? The boss who said
they would DECREASE spending after the 2010 election by 100 billion...
then INCREASED it?"

not to sound like the inverse of "it's all the GOP's fault" libtalk but...we're talking divided government here

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 05:05 PM (60GaT)

60

nope, no Obama plan

just heard it on the news

Obama will not be sending a plan to Congress...

because he has NO PLAN

Correection: Obama does have a plan: campaign.

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 05:05 PM (ODeHV)

61 Death by a thousand cuts seems less appealing than burning it down and starting fresh.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 27, 2012 05:06 PM (hPavS)

62 Do I need to start squealing like a pig now?

Posted by: Ned Beatty at December 27, 2012 05:06 PM (gxoxj)

63 The libs are saying this is all scripted. They are saying we are supposed to go over the cliff so that the republicans can look like they are rolling taxes back instead of increasing them. It's convoluted rhetoric but the leftists seem to think it's been a done deal for quite some time, delivered on New Year's Eve. The fly in the ointment for the republicans was the pledges they signed to not increase taxes. They are sorry they signed them and this is their way out.

Posted by: Caustic at December 27, 2012 05:06 PM (/b8+5)

64 i mean i get the sense that Boehner, while you can criticize the strategy like troyriser did above, is as reasonably conservative as possible, it's just that he's not in a position to make policy at this point

if the GOP did have united government i don't get the sense that it'd be a repeat of Bush-era not-really-caring about domestic policy specifics

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 05:07 PM (60GaT)

65 Yea... so now instead of helping Craft Legislation, they are put in the position of only being able to say no.... so the Press can 'paint' them as obstructionist....
Posted by: Where have I heard that before?? at December 27, 2012 05:02 PM (lZBBB)


----------------------------------------------------


They've already been painted. A second coat isn't going to make the colors brighter.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:07 PM (K5uaL)

66 Correection: Obama does have a plan: campaign.


Be still my beating heart!

Posted by: rickb223 at December 27, 2012 05:07 PM (GFM2b)

67 I think that character that played *me* in the movie Casino was pretty much spot on. Except for the fact I would have taken a little boy up to my comped room.

Posted by: Harry Reid at December 27, 2012 05:07 PM (F6KtL)

68 Let it burn.

]http://tinyurl.com/cqjbhom

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 05:08 PM (wYVte)

69 Obama will not be sending a plan to Congress... because he has NO PLAN Correection: Obama does have a plan: campaign.
Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 05:05 PM (ODeHV)

President Obama has a plan. He just can't state it publicly. Ever.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 05:08 PM (vtiE6)

70 ALL dying empires increase taxes. Those pledges were never worth shit anyway.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 27, 2012 05:08 PM (hPavS)

71 not to sound like the inverse of "it's all the GOP's fault" libtalk but...we're talking divided government here
Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 05:05 PM (60GaT)


--------------------------------------------


More like, divided nation.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:09 PM (K5uaL)

72

so why did Obama come back if he's not gonna submit a proposal??

oh, that's right, to pretend he's presidentin'

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 05:09 PM (3dufx)

73 Random thought (shut up the rest aren't always random): If a Republican were president, what color would the numbers be in the little counter thingy in the bottom corner of every network news broadcast and constantly on CNN/MSNBC/etc. showing how many days since a budget was passed? I'm going with red though yellow is also an option.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 05:10 PM (VtjlW)

74 Before we act as a party, we must hear what Meghan McCain has to say on this subject of the fiscal cliff!

Posted by: My GF has big boobies at December 27, 2012 05:10 PM (F6KtL)

75
Is there any CBO scoring on what this tax increase on 'millionaires' will raise? I can't see it generating even close to the yearly trillion+ deficit.
Part of me is actually fine with increasing the tax higher tax rate bracket. Especially since so many in that income bracket are Obama supporters anyway. They voted it for so they can eat it. Especially since that $2000 a year tax increase headed my way is going to be enough to screw me hard.

Posted by: AdamPM at December 27, 2012 05:11 PM (x61Z7)

76 73 Random thought (shut up the rest aren't always random): If a Republican were president, what color would the numbers be in the little counter thingy in the bottom corner of every network news broadcast and constantly on CNN/MSNBC/etc. showing how many days since a budget was passed? I'm going with red though yellow is also an option.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 05:10 PM (VtjlW)



I'm going with a reddish-orange. And blinking.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 05:11 PM (IvVLN)

77 alexthechick: The letters would be black, with flames.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 05:11 PM (wYVte)

78 @StevenTDennis Boehner still hasn't received invite for supposed meeting between leaders & Obama tmw, despite reports.

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 27, 2012 05:11 PM (YjDyJ)

79 If a Republican were president, what color would the numbers be in the little counter thingy in the bottom corner of every network news broadcast and constantly on CNN/MSNBC/etc. showing how many days since a budget was passed?

Stripes. Because they'd have it spinning like a top!

Posted by: rickb223 at December 27, 2012 05:11 PM (GFM2b)

80 I read on Lucianne that the WH says that Obozo will NOT be sending over a plan on Thursday.
I don't know what all of this means except that when we lost the election we knew that we were really boned.

Posted by: Cheri at December 27, 2012 05:13 PM (G+Wff)

81 Cornyn just tweeted that the President has no intention of offering a plan.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 27, 2012 05:13 PM (aB8aq)

82 Whenever negotiating with the Dems, remember DITF -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique .

Posted by: cthulhu at December 27, 2012 05:14 PM (kaalw)

83 Is there any CBO scoring on what this tax increase on 'millionaires' will raise?

$80 billion.

It's a fucking joke that the MFM pretends that this cornerstone of Barry's plan will do anything to address the deficit.

But as innumerate shit-for-brains Barry informed the nation, which chose not to listen, he doesn't give a shit if increased tax rates bring in less money, because Fairness.

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 27, 2012 05:14 PM (Loz0s)

84 Taxes are going up but of coarse it will not be enough without serious cuts... so the next big push will be for carbon taxes, you know because we have to save the planet and all.... But that will not be enough without cuts either.

... after that get ready for the 401k grab ... that is the only untapped significant revenue source available to them... and they will eventually be going for it.

Posted by: ET at December 27, 2012 05:14 PM (s72/N)

85 I'm going with a reddish-orange. And blinking.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 05:11 PM (IvVLN)



Crap. I can't believe I forgot the blinking.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 05:15 PM (VtjlW)

86 Of course the Republicans will give in. The "base" that would support them Letting It Burn is small. As the last election proved. And all politicians are panderers. Why hold firm for a losing party? Let It Burn - and "I" mean the Republican Party, too. It's gonna be shitty times ahead, so we might as well get it over with.

Posted by: tubal at December 27, 2012 05:15 PM (BoE3Z)

87 #72 Obama came back to pretend he is doing something.

Also, Reggie and Kal, choom and cigs, with no Michelle.

Posted by: Miss Marple at December 27, 2012 05:16 PM (GoIUi)

88 Actually I do think that I know what all of this means.....Bam wanted to spend New Year's with Reggie. The Hawaii trip was just for appearances at our expense and a few rounds of golf with his other gay buddy.

Posted by: Cheri at December 27, 2012 05:16 PM (G+Wff)

89 From what I've read, it was because if there's a
sunset provision the CBO doesn't score the proposed law in the same way.
That way, revenue reductions don't need to be matched with spending
cuts.

Because, heaven forbid Congress stop spending....


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 27, 2012 05:04 PM (kdS6q)

I have posted this over and over. The Bush tax cuts were scored by the CBO as increasing deficits. Since they used reconciliation to pass them (did not have 60 votes) they automatically expire after ten years. They have been extended once already.

Bing up the Byrd Rule

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 05:16 PM (53z96)

90 Cornyn just tweeted that the President has no intention of offering a plan.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 27, 2012 05:13 PM (aB8aq)


-------------------------------------------------


So I guess he's coming back because he just got tired of Moochelle's shit.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:16 PM (K5uaL)

91 Crap. I can't believe I forgot the blinking.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 05:15 PM (VtjlW)




*shrug*

That's what we're here for.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 27, 2012 05:16 PM (IvVLN)

92
Before we act as a party, we must hear what Meghan McCain has to say on this subject of the fiscal cliff!
Posted by: My GF has big boobies



You need but ask....


Meghan McCain said she is not an expert on the fiscal cliff, but the situation constantly worries her.

"I feel like I'm in the movie 'Saw,'" she said. "I need a key and I'm going to search through a body and, unless I get the thing off my face, it's going to explode and I'm going to die."

If a deal is going to get done, both parties are going to have to change their stance.

"I just think it's everyone's fault," said McCain. "I think Republicans have to stop being so stickly on making some kind of compromise and I think Democrats have to come to the middle as well."

KTAR.com radio

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 27, 2012 05:16 PM (kdS6q)

93
*pushing through the crowd to get the bread crumbs that King Obama threw onto the ground*

Oh thank you, m' lord! Two crumbs are two too many for me!

Posted by: My GF has big boobies at December 27, 2012 05:16 PM (F6KtL)

94 "President Obama pledged to cut the deficit in half. We are waiting for him to do so, since neither he nor the Democrats have passed a budget since 2009. By failing to have a budget, this administration is in violation of the law signed by President Clinton in 1994."

"He also said he wanted a balanced approach to the deficit. We have seen nothing from him that indicates he intends to cut any spending whatsoever. As soon as he does, negotiations will resume."

Stuff We Never Hear From Teh Pubbies in DC. Ever.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 27, 2012 05:17 PM (yiIja)

95 Ah Miss Marple - great minds think alike

Posted by: Cheri at December 27, 2012 05:18 PM (G+Wff)

96 McCain is one of the traitors who voted against the Bush tax cuts.

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 05:18 PM (53z96)

97 "stickly"?

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 27, 2012 05:18 PM (4XXE3)

98

Beware of SanFrancisco cocksucker bearing poison prawns!

Posted by: Mr. Wu... at December 27, 2012 05:18 PM (K4wCe)

99 "Stop being so 'STICKLY'?" Why doesn't Meghan McCain just shut up instead of trying to sound at all intelligent?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 27, 2012 05:19 PM (VLe4D)

100 ... after that get ready for the 401k grab ... that is the only untapped significant revenue source available to them... and they will eventually be going for it.
Posted by: ET at December 27, 2012 05:14 PM (s72/N)


-------------------------------------------------


They can grab all they want. I emptied mine. Even though I give a drab into it every month, it's just to keep the account open.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:19 PM (K5uaL)

101 92

"I think Republicans have to stop being so stickly on making some kind
of compromise and I think Democrats have to come to the middle as well."
"Stickly"........... Comedy Gold, that girl is.

Posted by: tubal at December 27, 2012 05:19 PM (BoE3Z)

102

hahahahaha @ the sidebar!

"the guy was great with miniatures"

who wrote that??

they should put that on Gerry Anderson's headstone

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 05:20 PM (zBI+t)

103 being so stickly on making some kind of compromise and .......Meggie Mac.
Good God this girl is dumb. If her brains were TNT, she wouldn't have enough to blow her nose.
Stickly? What's that?

Posted by: Cheri at December 27, 2012 05:21 PM (G+Wff)

104 #95 HAHA! Cheri, welcome to my cynical citizen club! I have patterned it after the Soviet dissidents of the 80's.

I smoke cigarettes in the European way, drink lots of vodka (Valu Rite, of course) and mutter sarcastic comments.


Posted by: Miss Marple at December 27, 2012 05:21 PM (GoIUi)

105

stickly dickly?

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 05:21 PM (zBI+t)

106
Meghan McCain said she is not an expert on the fiscal cliff, but the situation constantly worries her.

"I feel like I'm in the movie 'Saw,'" she said. "I need a key and I'm going to search through a body and, unless I get the thing off my face, it's going to explode and I'm going to die."


That can be arranged.


Posted by: Jigsaw at December 27, 2012 05:21 PM (F6KtL)

107
"stickly"?
Posted by: Waterhouse




Columbia *shrugs*

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 27, 2012 05:22 PM (kdS6q)

108 McCain is one of the traitors who voted against the Bush tax cuts.

To be fair, his objection was that it wasn't coupled with spending cuts.

McCain may have a lot of faults, but he's been pretty reliably conservative on fiscal policy.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 05:22 PM (SY2Kh)

109 103
being so stickly on making some kind of compromise and .......Meggie Mac.

Good God this girl is dumb. If her brains were TNT, she wouldn't have enough to blow her nose.

Stickly? What's that?

Posted by: Cheri at December 27, 2012 05:21 PM (G+Wff)























Her face probably, after a Honey Bun snack break.

Posted by: tubal at December 27, 2012 05:22 PM (BoE3Z)

110 So I guess he's coming back because he just got tired of Moochelle's shit.

Wouldn't you?

Posted by: rickb223 at December 27, 2012 05:22 PM (GFM2b)

111 Actually Cornyn just tweeted that President told R leaders he had a plan for them to review; then learned President has no intention of sharing a plan. If true, trip from Hawaii was a huge waste of jet fuel.

Posted by: USA at December 27, 2012 05:23 PM (RIg+t)

112 *sob*

Posted by: A seeping, orange boner at December 27, 2012 05:24 PM (w41GQ)

113 110
So I guess he's coming back because he just got tired of Moochelle's shit.



Wouldn't you?

Posted by: rickb223 at December 27, 2012 05:22 PM (GFM2b)
Well, yeah. Can you imagine being cooped up in a hut on an island with that harpy for two weeks?

Posted by: tubal at December 27, 2012 05:24 PM (BoE3Z)

114 Ah, good ole' Meghan McCain. We should beam her image up and send it across the galaxy. Aliens would avoid this planet like the plague.

Posted by: My GF has big boobies at December 27, 2012 05:25 PM (F6KtL)

115
"stickly"?
Posted by: Waterhouse



And a link:

http://tinyurl.com/bsvtqrb

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 27, 2012 05:25 PM (kdS6q)

116 Stickly.

Jesus wept.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 27, 2012 05:25 PM (ltdV/)

117 Upthread someone said LiB is preferred to a slow death by 1000 cuts.

I'm in that camp. Sorry, but I think you're fooling yourself hanging on to this regime in hopes of saving it at this point. Much better to get it over with as quickly as possible. I'm tired of dying.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 05:25 PM (zpqa2)

118 Meghan McCain said she is not an expert on the fiscal cliff, but the situation constantly worries her.

This minor point, however, does not prohibit the seeking of her uninformed opinion on the matter by the MFM.

FML. I'm at the point where I think she could probably come up with something that resembles a coherent fiscal plan, since the idiots somebody elected can't seem to do it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 27, 2012 05:25 PM (yiIja)

119 Argentina here we come.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget's square dildo at December 27, 2012 05:25 PM (epxV4)

120 Actually Cornyn just tweeted that President told R leaders he had a plan for them to review; then learned President has no intention of sharing a plan. If true, trip from Hawaii was a huge waste of jet fuel.
Posted by: USA at December 27, 2012 05:23 PM (RIg+t)


----------------------------------------------


The plot stickly thickens.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:25 PM (K5uaL)

121 McCain did it to stab Bush in the back. The reduced tax rates actually gave an increase in revenues but then Congress turned around and spent it. Bush had not yet found his veto pen.


The only thing McCain is good at is crossing the aisle.

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 05:26 PM (53z96)

122 this has been a negotiation about a political end, not a fiscal one. Boehner and the gop have completely failed to understand this and so have totally botched it. Obama has already won the political battle, time for Boehner to give him what he wants and keep the fiscal gift of lower taxes for those under the income limit offered - that will give him the high ground later when it is time to talk about the fiscal disaster.

Posted by: Steve walsh at December 27, 2012 05:26 PM (tsJkx)

123 Well, yeah. Can you imagine being cooped up in a hut on an island with that harpy for two weeks?

I'd rather be in solitary at Gitmo than be on the same island as that whale.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 27, 2012 05:26 PM (GFM2b)

124 Them dollars is comin', I just know it.

Mama, get that that big satchel out out of the hall closet.

Posted by: Cleotis Thick, Shop Steward, FSA Local #1012 at December 27, 2012 05:26 PM (QBCOa)

125 SHUT DOWN ALL THE GARBAGE SMASHERS ON THE DETENTION LEVEL!!!

Posted by: L.Skywalker at December 27, 2012 05:28 PM (PEw11)

126 If true, trip from Hawaii was a huge waste of jet fuel.
Posted by: USA

Not at all darlin' !

Posted by: Reggie Love at December 27, 2012 05:29 PM (G+Wff)

127 Stickly: adjective

Primarily Scot

Definition: Prickly, rough

I remember hearing my great-grandmother use the word, both times while referencing gardening and plants. She was 2nd generation American of Scots-Irish descent. Its use would be considered archaic now, certainly rare. Maybe Meggie Mac happened onto it by accident.

And who thinks in terms of 'Saw' metaphors, anyway?

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 05:30 PM (vtiE6)

128 Something exploded on Megan McCain's face?

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 05:30 PM (zpqa2)

129 This is not even hard really, Boehners offer should have been the follwoing

1) Leave the top two rates unchanged and cut the rest 1-2 points.

A Tax break for the middle class, nothing for the "rich"

2) Remove the 800 billion stimulus from the baseline budget.

3) 20% cut across the board in discretionary spending. Yields 200 Billion in savings.

4) 10% targeted cuts in mandatory spending. Yields 270 Billion.

Federal Deficit would be roughly balanced give or take a few billion, but really whats a few billion these days.






Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 05:31 PM (RrD4h)

130 Something exploded on Megan McCain's face?
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 05:30 PM (zpqa2)


Was it Bill Clinton?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 27, 2012 05:31 PM (l86i3)

131 this has been a negotiation about a political end, not a fiscal one. Boehner and the gop have completely failed to understand this and so have totally botched it.

I must disagree with your premise. Being a political animal, with emphasis on the animal part, Boner knows what the score is, and how he is being used.

No one is that stupid. That's why he has to go as SotH.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 27, 2012 05:31 PM (yiIja)

132 Well, at least he's got a good reason to get baked now. When he was a yout, he didn't have Michelle.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 27, 2012 05:32 PM (hPavS)

133 By'2nd generation American of Scots-Irish descent' I meant 'hillbilly from Kentucky'. All of my mother's people were from Appalachia.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 05:33 PM (vtiE6)

134 And who thinks in terms of 'Saw' metaphors, anyway?
Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 05:30 PM (vtiE6)


-------------------------------------------


You haven't been around for one of Ace's rambling political analyses yet, have you?

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:34 PM (K5uaL)

135
BTW - at the link above there's an mp3 of Meghan's interview.

And stickly is a verbatim quote.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 27, 2012 05:34 PM (kdS6q)

136 By'2nd generation American of Scots-Irish descent' I meant 'hillbilly from Kentucky'. All of my mother's people were from Appalachia.
Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 05:33 PM (vtiE6)

Stuff keeps goin the way it is, they can expect some city folk family visitors. That's my plan. Rural Alabama.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 27, 2012 05:34 PM (l86i3)

137 John Cornyn's tweet/facebook post:

OK, POTUS calls R leaders, say he has a fiscal cliff proposal. They say, fine, we'll review. Later learn POTUS has no intention of sending a fiscal cliff proposal. No way to avoid fiscal cliff diving.

Looks like the dance is over. Time to start throwing chairs.

Posted by: USA at December 27, 2012 05:34 PM (RIg+t)

138 The bottom line is that all conservative approaches would not play well with the idiot public vis-a-vis the MFM. Therefore, no matter what we are well and truly boned, considering our side has been given the script and has not the balls to deviate from it.

All other speculation and comment is jerking off.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 05:35 PM (zpqa2)

139 Looks like the dance is over. Time to start throwing chairs.
Posted by: USA at December 27, 2012 05:34 PM (RIg+t)


He never had any intention of cutting any deal ever, it's the cliff and sequestration. Even the bones he threw out would not have made it through the senate.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 27, 2012 05:36 PM (l86i3)

140 this has been a negotiation about a political end, not a fiscal one.
Boehner and the gop have completely failed to understand this and so
have totally botched it.


They understand that better than anybody.

Boehner tried pushing a bill to extend tax cuts for under $1 million, but Reid said he wouldn't even allow a vote on it.

Then a gaggle of GOP dick-waving douchebag backbenchers in the House said they'd vote against it, because they were holding out for ponies and unicorns or some damn thing. Mostly because they wanted to thump their chests and show how very True Conservative they are, because everybody knows that massive tax increases on everybody is the True Conservative position.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 05:37 PM (SY2Kh)

141 116
Stickly.

Jesus wept.


One of my favorites. The classics are classics for a reason.

Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 05:38 PM (6TB1Z)

142 that $80 billion in increased tax revenue is over ten years if i recall correctly.

Posted by: Uncle Jed at December 27, 2012 05:38 PM (AVfT8)

143 @131

good Lord, I hope you`'re wrong because that would mean he is incompetent. D' oh!

Posted by: Steve walsh at December 27, 2012 05:38 PM (tsJkx)

144 You H8Ters

I'm smart, I can do stuff.

Posted by: Mega McCain at December 27, 2012 05:39 PM (QBCOa)

145 She was 2nd generation American of Scots-Irish descent. Its use would be
considered archaic now, certainly rare. Maybe Meggie Mac happened onto
it by accident.


Or maybe, just spitballing here, maybe her vocabulary isn't sufficient to allow her to describe even relatively simply concepts. Jesus wept.

Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 05:39 PM (6TB1Z)

146 This is not even hard really, Boehners offer should have been the follwoing

Obama and Reid would say "no".

Then what?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 05:39 PM (SY2Kh)

147 He never had any intention of cutting any deal ever, it's the cliff and sequestration. Even the bones he threw out would not have made it through the senate.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 27, 2012 05:36 PM (l86i3)


---------------------------------------


Once again, Rush had it right from the beginning.

And what's a marxist's true target? The middle class. The rich were being used as a tool. Plus, his regime gets to gut the military. It's been the dream of leftists since I've been politically aware.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:40 PM (K5uaL)

148
Something exploded on Megan McCain's face?

I saw something nasty in the wood shed.

Posted by: Ada Doom at December 27, 2012 05:41 PM (K4wCe)

149 "President Obama lacks even the most fundamental understanding of how a free market economy operates. His experience is that of a "community organizer," whatever that is. He has no experience in the business community, has never owned or operated a business where his employees depend upon him for their livlihood. Nor has anyone in hisCabinet. He cannot be expected to propose a budget that makes mathematical sense."

Stuff We Never Hear from Any Pubbie in DC. Ever.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 27, 2012 05:42 PM (yiIja)

150 that $80 billion in increased tax revenue is over ten years if i recall correctly.

No, it's $80-90 billion a year. Obama keeps referring to it as a trillion dollars (over 10 years).

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 05:42 PM (SY2Kh)

151 Then a gaggle of GOP dick-waving douchebag
backbenchers in the House said they'd vote against it, because they were
holding out for ponies and unicorns or some damn thing. Mostly because
they wanted to thump their chests and show how very True Conservative
they are, because everybody knows that massive tax increases on
everybody is the True Conservative position.


Posted by: Hollowpoint


I agree. This was all a setup. However, as with many too-complicated plans, I have a feeling that the whole thing may backfire on him. Even if it doesn't, it won't really matter until the American people come to grips with financial reality.

Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 05:42 PM (6TB1Z)

152 Once again, Rush had it right from the beginning.


Hey now, OSP said it before Rush, and i was met with dissmissive verbs and adjectives. I have never wanted to be so wrong in my life. Now it's gonna burn, all of it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 27, 2012 05:43 PM (l86i3)

153 Shut it down and then let public know that Preezy can decide what bills get paid. Let Preezy own it, let him be responsible for Soc. Sec, military and other entitlements get paid and justify why Preezy wants to keep open as a priority the kazillion Dept. of Alphabets and kazzillsion Depts. of Education for this and Education for that....

Posted by: Deli LLama at December 27, 2012 05:44 PM (lGu1O)

154 Nothing is going to matter until people start to experience pain on a new scale. A scale the MFM is unable to hide.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 05:44 PM (zpqa2)

155 @146

Then nothing.

You go home.

See if your telling me that no matter what I have to accept a shit sandwich I want to accept one of my own choosing and not one being crammed down my throat.


We seem to always be loosing just more slowly sometimes and really fast others.

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 05:44 PM (RrD4h)

156 Then a gaggle of GOP dick-waving douchebag backbenchers in the House said they'd vote against it, because they were holding out for ponies and unicorns or some damn thing. Mostly because they wanted to thump their chests and show how very True Conservative they are, because everybody knows that massive tax increases on everybody is the True Conservative position.Posted by: Hollowpoint


-----------------------------------------------------


Sequestration was going to happen no matter what the repubs did. It's been the dem plan all along. They know where most of this nation's wealth is. It's in the middle class.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 05:46 PM (K5uaL)

157 OT: I looked at the ZH article from the sidebar regarding Gen Y employment problems. Not even 10 comments in, the JOOOOOOS were already being blamed. Thanks, ZeroHedge!

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's solid gold diaphragm at December 27, 2012 05:46 PM (T7gPe)

158 Shutting it down is a non-starter, even if our side were up to it (and they are so obviously NOT up to it). We tried it, during a much more favorable time.

The stories the MFM would write practically write themselves at this point.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 05:47 PM (zpqa2)

159 I assume we're going to give in, as we usually do, so I'm not sure what point there is of pretending otherwise.

Not if a new Speaker is elected.

Posted by: Decaf at December 27, 2012 05:47 PM (TJQ3a)

160 Remember when I said this guy would purposely seek crisis in order to rule with executive orders and regulations?

Here we are.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 27, 2012 05:48 PM (vnNPt)

161 My personal advice for Mr. McConnell, naturally not to be taken, would be for him to tell the President he deeply appreciates the gesture, but that on tax matters the House must lead and he should contact Speaker Boehner; and that after the House passes a bill the President thinks he might sign, that he and the Senate GOP will be happy to pester Harry Reid to take it up and put this issue to bed.

Posted by: G. at December 27, 2012 05:48 PM (k4wRs)

162
hahaha @ Republicans being too conservative

yeah, that's our problem

Posted by: soothsayer at December 27, 2012 05:48 PM (G7/cl)

163 @156

Sequestration was the GOP brilliant stratagem because they did not want to fight the debt ceiling battle just like they are going to cave and when the next hike has to happen by the 31st.

The GOP is always putting itself in a tight spot because they do not fight for anything, our leaders are unprincipled.

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 05:48 PM (RrD4h)

164 Not if a new Speaker is elected.
Posted by: Decaf at December 27, 2012 05:47 PM (TJQ3a)

I just learned the speaker doesn't have to be a sitting congressman. Is that true or BS?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 27, 2012 05:49 PM (l86i3)

165 Not if a new Speaker is elected.

I'll take things that don't matter for several trillion, Alex.


Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 27, 2012 05:49 PM (k7N5n)

166 Nothing is going to matter until people start to experience pain on a new scale. A scale the MFM is unable to hide.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid

I agree with the notion that the population of self-interest and FSA voters need to feel real pain. When their pet projects and goodies can't be funded, what then?
How about Bam and all in Congress not geting a paycheck or benefits until this is worked out? They not only are not doing their job but purposefully screwing up and off.

Posted by: Reggie Love at December 27, 2012 05:49 PM (G+Wff)

167 @164

It's true in the same sense that a Supreme Court Justice does not have to be a lawyer - Literally true but would never happen.

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 05:50 PM (RrD4h)

168 Sequestration was going to happen no matter what the repubs did. It's been the dem plan all along. They know where most of this nation's wealth is. It's in the middle class.

The middle class who voted for Obama do not understand something, he campaigned as their champion but heis notfriends with them and therefore not relevant after the election. He has many very rich friends andhe will see that they are left in peace regardless of all the rhetoric.

Posted by: Decaf at December 27, 2012 05:51 PM (TJQ3a)

169 @146

Then nothing.

You go home.


Then the sequestration tax hikes kick in, and the GOP gets blamed. And in your scenario, the public would have good reason to. Sure, they'll take more of the blame anyways, but not all of it- the "it's everyone's fault" option is about the best we can hope for.

I've said this before- if you think we should just allow sequestration to kick in, just say so. It's what Obama wants, and he's not exactly thinking of our best interests, is he?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 05:51 PM (SY2Kh)

170 I'll take things that don't matter for several trillion, Alex.

You expect the Speaker to display leadership, resolve and communication skills. Is Boehner it?

Posted by: Decaf at December 27, 2012 05:54 PM (TJQ3a)

171 140 Then a gaggle of GOP dick-waving douchebag backbenchers in the House said they'd vote against it, because they were holding out for ponies and unicorns or some damn thing.

Some of them did but it was the moderate Rs who killed the the bill. Apparently their thought is that it will be easier to explain Plan B after December 31st.

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 27, 2012 05:54 PM (YjDyJ)

172 You expect the Speaker to display leadership, resolve and communication skills. Is Boehner it?

Posted by: Decaf at December 27, 2012 05:54 PM (TJQ3a)

We need a tactician that's media savy. He aint it.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, aka Jack July author of Amy Lynn available on Amazon. at December 27, 2012 05:55 PM (l86i3)

173 @169

I really don't care actually.

At some point two things have to happen

1) People have to feel the real world pain of their political choices.

2) The GOP has to decide what it's principles are and advance them whatever the cost.

Obama gets what he wants because our leaders keep giving it to him.


Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 05:56 PM (RrD4h)

174 We not only need leaders who stand up for principles, we need an understanding that "principles matter". So far, the can-kicking has not tested whether principles matter or not. But like math, sooner or later the lesson will be learned.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 05:57 PM (zpqa2)

175 and, unless I get the thing off my face, it's going to explode and I'm going to die."





Gimme a second, almost there.......and I guarratee some stickly.

Posted by: Peter North at December 27, 2012 05:57 PM (c2oll)

176 hahaha @ Republicans being too conservative



yeah, that's our problem


Being "too conservative"? No. Being too delusional and self-important? Yes.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 05:59 PM (SY2Kh)

177 Never yield to an incumbent. Make this lame duck bitch dance for four years.

Posted by: Fritz the negotiator at December 27, 2012 06:00 PM (w3+gB)

178 What's to be saved here, the mirage of the former Federal Republic?

This is too far gone and too infested with cretins that have always had the inverted kind of public service as their goal.

There is no way now to avoid the coming economic calamity.

There is no one properly elected to speak for the GOP who is willing to do what needs to be done.

Kabuki is exactly the right word.

I'd go with shut it down, but I don't see that happening. That would take a different opposition party than the current GOP.

Let it burn.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 27, 2012 06:00 PM (aZ6ew)

179 Some of them did but it was the moderate Rs who killed the the bill.
Apparently their thought is that it will be easier to explain Plan B
after December 31st.


I'm not doubting you, but how does that make any sense at all from a "moderate" Republican perspective?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 06:01 PM (SY2Kh)

180 @176

So basically your an unprincipled dick wipe who would sell his mother into bondage if the political winds and the media demanded it?

Go scratch your ass you ducking dope!

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 06:03 PM (RrD4h)

181 Sequestration was going to happen no matter what the repubs did. It's
been the dem plan all along. They know where most of this nation's
wealth is. It's in the middle class.


Sure, and they want the public to blame the GOP for it. I get it.

That doesn't mean Republicans should make it easier for them to do so.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 06:04 PM (SY2Kh)

182 What's to be saved here, the mirage of the former Federal Republic?

Bingo. The cliff happened already.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 27, 2012 06:04 PM (zpqa2)

183 164 I just learned the speaker doesn't have to be a sitting congressman. Is that true or BS?

"Although the Constitution does not require the Speaker to be a Member of the House, all Speakers have been Members."

http://1.usa.gov/jPLMyw

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 27, 2012 06:04 PM (YjDyJ)

184 How do you spell CAVE?Starts with a B and ends with an r....

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at December 27, 2012 06:04 PM (9+ccr)

185 So basically your an unprincipled dick wipe who would sell his mother
into bondage if the political winds and the media demanded it?


I live in a place called "reality". You should visit sometime, it's nice.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 06:06 PM (SY2Kh)

186 179 I'm not doubting you, but how does that make any sense at all from a "moderate" Republican perspective?

"Fearing primaries, Republican members opted to shun Boehner’s 'Plan B'"- http://bit.ly/TeUk1n

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 27, 2012 06:09 PM (YjDyJ)

187 BATNA! Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-BATNA!!!!

Posted by: Corn-bag Brother at December 27, 2012 06:14 PM (Y5I9o)

188 sock off!

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 27, 2012 06:15 PM (Y5I9o)

189 @185

Bending to reality has gotten us to a 17 Trillion dollar debt, 7 trillion of it in the last four years alone.

Bending to reality has gotten us Trillion dollar annual deficits.

If debts and deficits are actually meaningful, when are they going to be addressed?

Because, if the current trajectory continues and the system does not break, we are looking at a 24 Trillion dollar debt when Obama leaves office.

The debt service alone would take vast amount of our annual GDP to pay.


Again your just a cockholster, who likes to bend.

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 06:16 PM (RrD4h)

190 Why didn't anyone send Boehner the Stephen Potter books?

Posted by: EveR at December 27, 2012 06:19 PM (pPOhx)

191 "Being "too conservative"? No. Being too delusional and self-important? Yes."

Speak for yourself. You center-left Republicans set up this whole sequestration to "rescue" the Party from the eeeeeevil stupid dick-waving Tea Party that wanted to fight over the debt limit.

Your crew voted for it.

There's no way to avoid responsibility for something you voted for.

There's no cleverness in scheming to have the press portray you as not responsible for something you voted for. The press don't like you. They WANT to harm you, and the simplest way to harm you when you tell lies, is to praise Democrats for telling the truth about you.

If Mission #1 is somehow, "dodging blame", the only surefire method is a purge. Have your feckless idiots resign, and let a new breed of Republican come in damning your crew for being so lousy. That's going to leave a mark, but, the target is not around to drag everybody else with them.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at December 27, 2012 06:21 PM (3GtyG)

192 Obama and Reid would say "no".

Then what?



Umm... you tell us. Aren't you mad the ideologues didn't pass Plan B?


So fill us in on step #2.

Posted by: entropy at December 27, 2012 06:39 PM (YUttk)

193 Hollowpoint, how does passing a bill that would extend the tax cuts for 97% of Americans - which Harry Reid and Obama would say no to - fight the optics of them saying we are holding up the tax cuts by holding out for the richest 1%?


Because if they were principled (and we know they're not) they'd have to amend their rhetoric to the 3%?

Posted by: entropy at December 27, 2012 06:43 PM (YUttk)

194 Hollowpoint's wrecking another thread. Gee what a surprise. You are certainly in a foul mood today.

Posted by: Jaimo at December 27, 2012 06:50 PM (yxBcx)

195 80's baby is still pretending that Plan B would have passed the senate I see.


Bizarre.

Posted by: entropy at December 27, 2012 06:55 PM (YUttk)

196 Ace: I think most people are in the same boat, and so offer up the same suggestion most of the time -- "Tell them to die in a fire! Let it burn! Remain strong!" -- and that's fine and all but the twentieth time one writes it it loses all meaning (at least whatever meaning it had).
-
Fair enough.

But, remember this?
Apocalypse: Deal Only Cuts $352 Million In Actual Spending
http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=314718
And this?
Suckers: We Were Fooled; Budget Barely Cuts Anything
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/314667.php

When you're being played for a sucker all the time by people who have no intention of doing what they say they want to, how is it meaningful to urge them to be flexible, moderate and smart?

Yes it's meaningless to tell them to stand firm. They won't. But how is saying something else just to say something else an improvement?

Posted by: The Lightworker at December 27, 2012 06:59 PM (mH/yQ)

197 Ace: I assume we're going to give in, as we usually do, so I'm not sure what point there is of pretending otherwise.
-
Is the professional elite of the Republican Party and its supporters a meaningful "we"?

When Jon Kyl decided that since he wasn't running for office any more he might as well do what he wanted on mass immigration and amnesty, he moved left. That meant those who had counted him as one of the good guys fighting for them had been wrong throughout his career. He had been pandering to them in public, but his heart was on the other side.

It's like that on all sorts of issue: on the size of government and spending, on immigration and amnesty, on race and affirmative action, on abortion and other social issues. Those at the top pander to a mass base, whether rightist or leftist, but behind the scenes it seems their hearts are all on the left.

The people who will give in won't really be losing.

Posted by: The Lightworker at December 27, 2012 07:12 PM (mH/yQ)

198 183
164 I just learned the speaker doesn't have to be a sitting congressman. Is that true or BS?



"Although the Constitution does not require the Speaker to be a Member of the House, all Speakers have been Members."



http://1.usa.gov/jPLMyw

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 27, 2012 06:04 PM (YjDyJ)


Newt's probably available....

Posted by: cthulhu at December 27, 2012 07:41 PM (kaalw)

199 G. Gordon Liddy.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at December 27, 2012 07:55 PM (3GtyG)

200 "Remember when I said this guy would purposely seek crisis in order to rule with executive orders and regulations?

Here we are.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 27, 2012 05:48 PM (vnNPt)"

I remember. I thought it was a solid observation, especially after Rahm Emmanuel's 'Never let a crisis go to waste' remark.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 07:56 PM (ptcFO)

201 Barry-O : "OK, it was like this see. First, we said that the car was in the ditch, see? Then the SVP (Stupid Voting Public) just ate up our little metphor. Hell, it was way better than 'more cowbell'. So we just said, 'Hell, let's just take this sucker out of the ditch and just take it over the cliff. That's way better, see? The SVP will just take whatever we feed 'em, see, thanks to our compliant media lapdogs.

Hehe, this is way more fun than governing, see?"


See??

Posted by: dissent555 at December 27, 2012 08:02 PM (yR6A1)

202 Does it matter?

If we only raise taxes enough to make the Dems look good and the GOP have some cred to claim they "stopped them" then we will not have enough revenue to stop the tsunami of red ink.

Oh, we could cut spending, too, but I think that will be where the Dems REALLY dig in.

The funny thing is eventually the markets will wise up, say at around 150% of GDP, and stop the nonsense. But by then Obama will be a revered elder statesmen.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 27, 2012 09:40 PM (dZQh7)

203 Anybody else think going over the cliff would be a CREDIT to the pols?

If the Dems take us over, I will respect them MORE.

Same with GOP.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 27, 2012 09:43 PM (dZQh7)

204
If GOP caves it is THE END of the GOP, period. And it immediately sets the stage for dictator Obama to rule for 4 years. If GOP caves, I'll never call myself a Republican again, and 2012 will be the end of my contributions and support of those buffoons.

Posted by: Andrew at December 27, 2012 09:54 PM (HS3dy)

205
Get up and walk away from the table. It's a crap sammich at best. So get up and walk away. Boehner can re-make his brand just a bit by simply makinga simple, short press release saying,

"This is the deal the President made in August 2011. It stands. We will consider future spendingcuts in the upcoming Congress but I assure you, our caucus will not increase the tax burden on the people of the U.S. This point is non-negotiable."

"Furthermore, there will be no increase to the nation'sdebt limit. That will not be on the Houseagenda for the next two years. The President will have to figure out how to live within the fiscal confines of a world that he created overhis first term. Thereckless spending will stop."

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at December 27, 2012 11:21 PM (n8LUb)

206 This is nothing that a little golf won't fix.

Posted by: Your president at December 28, 2012 12:15 AM (+QKfp)






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