Supposedly Fact-and-Evidence Based Community Continues Ignoring the Facts and Evidence of Gun Bans

But this time, gun bans will -- like socialism -- finally work out.

It's just a matter of having the Right Elites running things, and this time we finally have the Right Elites.

Ignore the fact that all previous iterations of the Right Elites turned out to be the Wrong Elites, even though they thought they were the Right Elites. The current Right Elites are truly the right elites.

This time, it'll work.

We aren't alone in facing this problem. Great Britain and Australia, for example, suffered mass shootings in the 1980s and 1990s. Both countries had very stringent gun laws when they occurred. Nevertheless, both decided that even stricter control of guns was the answer. Their experiences can be instructive.

In 1987, Michael Ryan went on a shooting spree in his small town of Hungerford, England, killing 16 people (including his mother) and wounding another 14 before shooting himself. Since the public was unarmed—as were the police—Ryan wandered the streets for eight hours with two semiautomatic rifles and a handgun before anyone with a firearm was able to come to the rescue.

Nine years later, in March 1996, Thomas Hamilton, a man known to be mentally unstable, walked into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot 16 young children and their teacher. He wounded 10 other children and three other teachers before taking his own life.

In England, gun crime actually went up after gun bans; in Australia, it declined marginally, but criminals used other weapons to almost erase any declines.

But Our Elites are the elitest of all elites. They've got this.

Trust them. They listen to NPR. So they know what they're doing.

I've previously noted that Something, perpetually, Must Be Done.

One of the most frustrating thing about the politically unaware is their unchanging belief that Something must be done! (all attempts to panic the public into agreeing that Something Must Be Done! are directed at this cohort), but they have little idea of what, specifically, should be done. Something. You know, something. Something must be done, why are you not getting this?

...

It's the single thing they know about politics -- Something must be done.

Democrats have a natural advantage in playing to this crowd, as they are promiscuously in favor of government action in the first place.

Posted by: Ace at 12:36 PM



Comments

1 Up next on NPR's All Things Considered, knife violence is on the rise. Do you really need a butcher's knife? Everyone will be just fine with butter knives. Think of the children.

Posted by: no good deed at December 27, 2012 12:41 PM (mjR67)

2 So if I'm made to be a criminal by the elite scrunts who are guarded by bodyguards armed with machineguns, does that mean I can buy a HK MP5 now that the law no longer matters?

Posted by: Drider at December 27, 2012 12:41 PM (HaJD9)

3 I don't have any guns. I lost them all in a tragedy of some sort.

Posted by: Ronster at December 27, 2012 12:41 PM (JgkPs)

4 We are well aware it isn't about making the children safer, or else they would not oppose school staff being armed. It's about pushing their agenda and disarming the commoners. The elites will continue to be armed or be protected by armed men.

Posted by: real joe at December 27, 2012 12:42 PM (PD2ad)

5 Australia has twice the violent crime rate of the US.

Felons in the US fear getting their asses shot off.

Higher incidence of criminals getting shot is a feature, not a bug.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:43 PM (wYVte)

6 The idea to add scary black semi auto rifles and some handguns to the National Firearms Act is hilarious. If you had to do a bunch of paperwork, be finger printed, back ground checked, and wait 9 months or more to buy a NFA gun, would you buy a semi auto or a full auto?

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget's square dildo at December 27, 2012 12:43 PM (epxV4)

7 When was the last time experience dissuaded the left from trying a bad idea one more time?

Posted by: VW Zao at December 27, 2012 12:43 PM (vWZa0)

8 We can't really leave the assault femur threat unaddressed, can we? I mean, you all saw 2001. Sure, it'll cut down a bit on mobility, but bonelessness is really the way to go. Trust us.

Posted by: The elites, who will, of course, retain THEIR femurs at December 27, 2012 12:44 PM (6TB1Z)

9 Doctors in the U.K. are now calling for a ban on long kitchen knives, due to persistent high violent crime rates. They even did a study with various British chefs, to ensure that the professional knife-wielding community could carry on with shorter knives. Thankfully, they can.

So, utopia ... almost there!

http://bbc.in/UoAFgI

Posted by: Artemus Khan, Supervillain-Billionaire-Layabout at December 27, 2012 12:44 PM (27tUc)

10 Fellow soon-to-be fellons, who's up for registering their 'grandfathered' guns?

Posted by: DiesIrae at December 27, 2012 12:44 PM (1Zcp1)

11 Drider: Exactly.

If Obama makes owing an AR-15 a violation of the NFA of 1934, you might as well put a fun switch on it.

Same penalty.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:44 PM (wYVte)

12 Gun control has worked wonders for us. For our funeral homes, pine box makers and for our localmausoleum industries.

Posted by: Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, New Orleans, San Francisco at December 27, 2012 12:44 PM (pmsMR)

13 don't forget that the people who tell us that "only trained professionals like the police should have guns" are also the first to yell about police brutality.

Posted by: mallfly at December 27, 2012 12:45 PM (bJm7W)

14 1 Up next on NPR's All Things Considered, knife violence is on the rise. Do you really need a butcher's knife? Everyone will be just fine with butter knives. Think of the children.

Posted by: no good deed at December 27, 2012 12:41 PM (mjR67)


Kitchen knives!

http://tinyurl.com/eyols (BBC link)

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at December 27, 2012 12:45 PM (Qxe/p)

15 A heavy crossbow would be real handy down under.

Posted by: Butters at December 27, 2012 12:45 PM (NIZHJ)

16 Don't just do something! Stand there!!


Me likey

Posted by: Count de Monet at December 27, 2012 12:45 PM (BAS5M)

17 DiesIrae: Register half of them, and install fun switches, since Obama is threatening to declare AR-15s to be machineguns.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:46 PM (wYVte)

18 From the BBC article I referenced in 9.

"A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

The research is published in the British Medical Journal.

The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all.

They consulted 10 top chefs from around the UK, and found such knives have little practical value in the kitchen."

Posted by: Artemus Khan, Supervillain-Billionaire-Layabout at December 27, 2012 12:46 PM (27tUc)

19 If something really must be done, and something effective, anyone with a mental illness diagnosed from bipolar down to ADD would have to register and be licensed by the state. They would henceforth be unable to purchase a weapon or reside in a home with one, and the cops would know exactly who they are. I mean if you are going to violate people's constitutional rights, at least stick to the ones that might actually be dangerous.


But as we all know this isn't about an effective solution, it's about coming up with the "correct" one that just conveniently happens to be the one that they had before the shooting in Newton.

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 27, 2012 12:46 PM (+u2k2)

20 Just a couple points Ace - because Ezra Klein and others are trying to use Australia as a gold standard for why gun bans should occur:

1. As you mentioned the decrease in gun violence in Australia after the buy back/ban came with a corresponding increase violent crime using other weapons. One of the most commonly cited statistics by advocates of expansive gun control are how gun violence is reduced after the ban - which tells us nothing about how much violent crime went down overall (ostensibly the purpose of these bans).

2. More importantly, look at the time series for gun related deaths or just violent crime in Australia. First this was part of a continuing decrease in gun violence that predated the ban/buyback - I haven't looked at the papers yet but it's not clear that detrending the effect of the ban leads to an unambiguous pronounced impact. Secondly, the decrease in gun crime also matched a decrease in gun violence in other countries, including those like the US and other which had substantially looser gun laws (and before somebody mentions the assault weapons ban the decrease in US gun violence also predated that).

Posted by: inyourheadZOMBIE at December 27, 2012 12:46 PM (62AES)

21 Why do we allow the Left to round our children up in GunFree™ slaughter pens?

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 12:46 PM (QupBk)

22 SpongeBob Saget's square dildo: If your AR-15 is declared an MG, then "repairing" it to fire full-auto is perfectly legal.

Put a 14" barrel on it as well.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:47 PM (wYVte)

23 Gun control will work about as good as talking nice nice to the muslim's has turned out!

And oh by the by, why don't they try enforcing the Laws already on the books, but I digress.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 27, 2012 12:47 PM (79ueO)

24
Something must be done...

...about chimp-faced media activists who violate the longstanding laws of their particular zoo enclosure that specifically forbid the posession of certain size metal boxes with springs inside them. I really don't care if he *did* think he was going to get more food pellets out of it or not. Bad monkey!

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 12:47 PM (4I3Uo)

25 I traded all of my firearms for food cards valued at $100 each. Score!

Posted by: Fritz at December 27, 2012 12:48 PM (/ZZCn)

26
The Left used to be anti-government.
That was their big thing..."don't trust the government".
Now, they love it.

We should ask these gun-banning liberal dickheads if they will still like the idea of being disarmed...with a Republican in the White House, and both houses of congress under Republican rule.

I seem to recall some rather militant leftists threatening to act up, back during the Bush years.

Posted by: wheatie at December 27, 2012 12:48 PM (K4wCe)

27 Mark my words, and mark them well:

in Australia, assaults with King Brown snakes went up after the ban.

In England, assaults with hedgehogs went up after the ban.

In the US? After the ban? Assaults with squirrels will, no doubt, increase. Exponentially.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 27, 2012 12:48 PM (RuUvx)

28 Start with Disband the TSA, give everybody a Baseball bat upon boarding the plane.

Posted by: Clemenza at December 27, 2012 12:48 PM (Q8Pu5)

29 Never let a crisis go to waste = Something must be done! = Bluto's right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part! We're just the guys to do it.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 12:49 PM (Hx5uv)

30 They can have my ice pick and roofing hatchet when they pry them from my cold dead hands.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 12:49 PM (QupBk)

31 Fritz: A lot of mine were lost in tragic boating accidents ... not a lot of deep water around here, but hey ...

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:49 PM (wYVte)

32 It's really not that hard to make a long, pointy, sharp-edged implement from metal. Believe me, we know. But whatever, ban away.

Posted by: State Pen Union of Shiv Manufacturers, Local #8 at December 27, 2012 12:49 PM (6TB1Z)

33 You joke about knives, but Mayor Bloomie and his DA are cracking down on utility knives people need for work. If a cop sees one on you, you can be arrested for possession of a gravity knife (utility knives can usually be opened with one hand). It's a misdemeanor unless you have a prior conviction, then it's a felony.

Posted by: real joe at December 27, 2012 12:49 PM (PD2ad)

34 Up next on NPR's All Things Considered, knife violence is on the rise.
Do you really need a butcher's knife? Everyone will be just fine with
butter knives. Think of the children.

---

Eating meat is bad for you anyway.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 12:49 PM (Hx5uv)

35 re9: I read about that months ago, and for the most parts the chefs' reaction was along the lines of "are you an idiot?"

"Britons suffer 1,158,957 violent crimes per year, which works out at
2,034 per 100,000 residents. The U.S., meanwhile, has a rate of 466
crimes per 100,000 residents, which is lower than France’s, at 504"

from frontpagemag today
http://tinyurl.com/cpx8qws

Posted by: mallfly at December 27, 2012 12:50 PM (bJm7W)

36 20 Posted by: inyourheadZOMBIE at December 27, 2012 12:46 PM (62AES)



You lost me at the part that didn't say "Give me your guns you fucking wingnut!!!"

Posted by: Typical Leftist Dumbfuck Who Takes Ezra Klein Seriously at December 27, 2012 12:50 PM (eP0u9)

37 You would not believe what some guy could do with a Scottish claymore..

Posted by: Clemenza at December 27, 2012 12:50 PM (Q8Pu5)

38 I'm tired of hearing about other countries that have no guns and where crime is low. Enough. This is America, which I happen to believe is unique. We pushed out the Brits at the point of a gun. We pushed the natives out of our way at the point of a gun. Was it right, was it wrong? - fuck it, I don't care. We're here, now, in 2012 and guns happen to be as American as real pork bacon. Guns are interwoven into who we are, for good or ill. This Will Not Change. And you know what? I'm cool with that.

WE LIVE IN A WORLD THAT HAS BAD PEOPLE. WHO'S GOING TO STAND BETWEEN ME AND THOSE BAD PEOPLE? Piers Morgan? Diane Feinstein? Hell no. When the shit hits the fan and I am obliged to fend for myself, I want a gun. The 2nd Amendment enshrines my right to have one, and the Constitution is THE LAW OF THE LAND. This is non-negotiable. This is my hill to die on.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 12:50 PM (8sCoq)

39 In Transylvanian occupied Albion they are trying to ban kitchen knives.

Posted by: Butters at December 27, 2012 12:50 PM (NIZHJ)

40 I'm going to put the Lefty dogma to the test.

I'm going to draw a picture of a gun.

A picture of a gun with a muzzle flash suppressor, a bayonet, and ... hell .. a belt fed ... grenade ... launcher. Yeah. A grenade launcher.

And hand the picture in to the authorities to get my money.

Suh-weet.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 27, 2012 12:51 PM (RuUvx)

41 You would not believe what some guy could do with an American Claymore..

Hobos in the wire!

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:51 PM (wYVte)

42
"The Left used to be anti-government. "

In which alternate reality was this ever true?

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 12:51 PM (4I3Uo)

43 It's really not that hard to make a long, pointy, sharp-edged implement from metal.

Rear axle leaf springs are sweet!

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 27, 2012 12:52 PM (GFM2b)

44 My recommendation for public safety? Bring the sword and buckler back into fashion. Also plumed hats.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 12:52 PM (QupBk)

45
This Dunblame guy got kicked out of Scouts in 1973 for pervy behavior. Twenty years later, he's still grumbling about it and trying to start another scout troop.

Posted by: red at December 27, 2012 12:52 PM (qBY6R)

46 Anything that shoots the 44-70 round is not on the list.
You don't need to fire a lot of those, either.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at December 27, 2012 12:52 PM (Qxe/p)

47 I would love for someone to propose legislation that limited the Secret Service to only those weapons available to the population at large.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 12:52 PM (3x3F6)

48 The first thing that should be done is eliminate glass windows in locked school doors. Someone was stupid.


Gun bans have never worked.

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 12:53 PM (53z96)

49 The police should be disarmed first.

Posted by: Butters at December 27, 2012 12:53 PM (NIZHJ)

50 I mean if you are going to violate people's constitutional rights, at least stick to the ones that might actually be dangerous.

That would mean you start with felons, which would disproportionately affect the "inner city".


Really, do I need to say it?

Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 12:53 PM (6TB1Z)

51 42
"The Left used to be anti-government. "

In which alternate reality was this ever true?

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 12:51 PM (4I3Uo)


You obviously did not live through the sixties.
They were anti-government before they took it over.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at December 27, 2012 12:54 PM (Qxe/p)

52 And that "something" that must be done always includes punishing the innocent and responsible, and the taking away of rights.

Always.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 27, 2012 12:54 PM (yiIja)

53 Also plumed hats.

Ironically, San Francisco has already implemented your policy.

Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 12:55 PM (6TB1Z)

54 http://tinyurl.com/secretservicegungungun

Heh.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:55 PM (wYVte)

55 Holy cow, how many chefs are in the UK? Ten of them said the knives have no practical value, and then, the article goes on to describe how long knives cut into people "like a ripe melon." I guess they don't like melons over there. It reads like a parody.

Posted by: no good deed at December 27, 2012 12:55 PM (mjR67)

56 I'm going to a gun show this weekend and I'm buying a gun.

Fuck these people

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 27, 2012 12:55 PM (+u2k2)

57 We should ask these gun-banning liberal dickheads if they will still like the idea of being disarmed...with a Republican in the White House, and both houses of congress under Republican rule.

That's always a fun one to point out. On a Newton story in the local rag, some dickweasel was going on about 'only police and soldiers should have guns' while bitching about our 'idiotic Harper gov't'.

I gently pointed out how it must be difficult for his brain to reconcile having the 'idiots' in charge of the only people with guns.

In Canadian, "gently pointed out" loosely translates to "you never go full retard".

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 27, 2012 12:55 PM (BrQrN)

58 Sen Feinstein, possessor of a concealed weapons permit, wants to ban handguns.

She sees no conflict in her two positions on the matter.

It's useless to argue with these con artists; just block them however you can.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 27, 2012 12:55 PM (ccXZP)

59 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (/eBe8)

60 Fuck, might as well make my own DIAS, if they're going to prosecute me for owning an "assault weapon" anyway. Easy to make, there are CAD drawings out there showing how to make one readily available. Instant auto! Wheeeeeeee!

Posted by: kalel666 at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (8WPsB)

61 Holy cow, how many chefs are in the UK?

Heh, heh. He said holy cow in the context of a discussion about chefs and their knives. Okay, I'm easily amused.

Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (6TB1Z)

62 My recommendation for public safety? Bring the sword and buckler back into fashion. Also plumed hats.

One of these days I'm going to post my argument as to why outlawing dueling should be unconstitutional, based on Roe v. Wade and Lawrence. v. Texas.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (3x3F6)

63
"The first thing that should be done is eliminate glass windows in locked school doors. Someone was stupid. "

Yes. We need more prisonlike schools.

I mean hell, it's not like 30% of them ain't gonna end up in the slam at some point anyway. Why not reduce the culture shock?

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (4I3Uo)

64 And that "something" that must be done always includes punishing the innocent and responsible, and the taking away of rights.

---

I knew it! It's a conspiracy of the innocent. They're always behind everything.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (Hx5uv)

65 I've noted this before, Julio Gonzalez with half a pint of gasoline and a match killed 87 people at the Happy Land social club in the Bronx.


Evil and or deranged people will do evil and or deranged things given whatever tools are at their disposal.

It was not widely reported but a deranged man in China just mowed down 23 school kids with his car.


Whenever someone does anything illegal the lefts go to response is to burden the law abiding with more "law."

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (RrD4h)

66 I've got this.

Posted by: Baracka the Benevolent at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (jucos)

67 It's the single thing they know about politics -- Something must be done.


Funny. And horribly true.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 27, 2012 12:56 PM (QKKT0)

68 I think everyone here with a firearm should respond to any inquires on what firearms they own with this exact same answer, write it down.
"They were stolen by a mysterious stranger with one red shoe".
Flood them with it.

Posted by: Drider at December 27, 2012 12:57 PM (HaJD9)

69 These are the same people, after all, whose minds are boggled when prisons are full "but crime is decreasing." They're simply unable to grasp causality.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 27, 2012 12:57 PM (/eBe8)

70 The idea to add scary black semi auto rifles and some handguns to the
National Firearms Act is hilarious. If you had to do a bunch of
paperwork, be finger printed, back ground checked, and wait 9 months or
more to buy a NFA gun, would you buy a semi auto or a full auto?


For one, because a full auto costs an extra $15,000+. Only those registered before 1986 are eligible for civilian transfer.

I imagine they'd try to classify Evil Black Rifles as a "destructive device" similar to a short barreled long gun or silencer. It's a different category from full auto.

You need an NFA stamp to (legally) own an AR rifle with an 11" barrel, for example. But you still can't legally convert it to full auto even with the stamp, unless the receiver was registered before '86.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (SY2Kh)

71 Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:44 PM (wYVte)

I don't want full-auto because I would go broke paying for ammo.

three-shot burst? Another story altogether.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (GsoHv)

72 "I didn't get a harumph from that guy!"

Posted by: Mikey NTH - sees the gods of the copybook headings on the horizon at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (hLRSq)

73 Colorado Alex: Dueling was outlawed because professional duelists were taking money from people who wanted a murder for hire to provoke victims into dueling them.

People got sick of it, and started hanging professional duelists.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (wYVte)

74 You obviously did not live through the sixties.They were anti-government before they took it over.

They were never anti-government, they were simply opposed to anyone but themselves having power.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (3x3F6)

75 It is pathetically stupid that we must once again discuss this issue as if the other side has even the slightest point to their argument.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (bb5+k)

76 Holy cow, how many chefs are in the UK?

---

Worse than that. You know what English chefs make? English food.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (Hx5uv)

77 with a Republican in the White House, and both houses of congress under Republican rule.

Yea..like that's gona happen! Which reminds me, I've gota change my party affiliation to "Libertarian"!

Posted by: Paladin at December 27, 2012 12:59 PM (XB2s0)

78
42
"The Left used to be anti-government. "


In which alternate reality was this ever true?

Back during the VietNam War, the Left was actively against the government.

Anti-government sentiments lingered, after VietNam was no longer an issue...Bill Ayers bombed a government building, remember?

Posted by: wheatie at December 27, 2012 12:59 PM (K4wCe)

79 >
I'm going to a gun show this weekend and I'm buying a gun.



Fuck these people


Me too. Tanner Gun Show, Denver Merchandise Mart, this Sat-Sun
Ideally I find a SW .38 Chief's Special. Really want one of those for concealed carry on my motorcycle.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 12:59 PM (8sCoq)

80 Also plumed hats.

Ironically, San Francisco has already implemented your policy.


Plumed hats and inflated scrotums just go together.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 27, 2012 12:59 PM (QKKT0)

81 Doctors in the U.K. are now calling for a ban on long kitchen knives, due to persistent high violent crime rates. They even did a study with various British chefs, to ensure that the professional knife-wielding community could carry on with shorter knives. Thankfully, they can.

I bet if they did a study of those committing crimes with a knife they would find that they too can carry on with shorter knives.

Posted by: buzzion at December 27, 2012 01:00 PM (GULKT)

82
"You obviously did not live through the sixties.
They were anti-government before they took it over."

How does agitating for the triumph of Marxism in the '60's make one anti-government? Sounds like anti-representative-republican-government to me.

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 01:00 PM (4I3Uo)

83 Worse than that. You know what English chefs make? English food.

Curry?

Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 01:00 PM (6TB1Z)

84 Saudi Britain. Come for the food, stay for the dental care.

Posted by: Butters at December 27, 2012 01:00 PM (NIZHJ)

85 Colorado Alex: Dueling was outlawed because professional duelists were taking money from people who wanted a murder for hire to provoke victims into dueling them.People got sick of it, and started hanging professional duelists.

So what? If you have a right to do whatever you want to your body, including commit suicide, then you should have the right to consent to a duel against another consenting adult. The fact that he may have been paid to provoke you is of no consequence.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 01:00 PM (3x3F6)

86 the blog ate my ampersand

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:01 PM (8sCoq)

87 I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and
stupid gesture be done on somebody's part! We're just the guys to do it.


YEA.....I'm with you....what?

Posted by: Paladin at December 27, 2012 01:02 PM (XB2s0)

88 *ahem*......*cough*

HARUMPH!

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2012 01:02 PM (KXm42)

89 Hollowpoint: When they forced the registration of Streetsweeper shotguns as DDs, they had to declare an amnesty to allow owners to send in form 4s with the front of the form completed.

Machineguns are running around $10 to $15k right now. If they declare self-loaders to be MGs, I will be sending in my form 4, and I will "repair" them.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:02 PM (wYVte)

90 The knife thing just indicates that they always (always) double-down on magical thinking.

And don't they have the thinking process of a first-grader? It's always first-order thinking. Always it's: That's a gun? Let's ban guns. No, there are no unintended consequences, you're just a doodiehead.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 27, 2012 01:02 PM (huD71)

91 the blog ate my ampersand

Only outlaws have ampersands.

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2012 01:03 PM (KXm42)

92 getting ready to go to the gun club to shoot my Christmas present....benelli m4....with my 13 yr old son who plays shooter video games, husband and some friends...going again on saturday with another group of friends...i'm getting worried because my other present....le901 has not arrived at the gun store....i'm hoping it's there today...

Posted by: phoenixgirl, Merry 3rd day of Christmas at December 27, 2012 01:03 PM (GVxQo)

93 &

Posted by: phoenixgirl, Merry 3rd day of Christmas at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (GVxQo)

94 Doodieheads are entitled to their opinions too.

Posted by: Joe Biden at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (QKKT0)

95 i guess i'm an outlaw

Posted by: phoenixgirl, Merry 3rd day of Christmas at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (GVxQo)

96 Colorado Alex: This is exactly why I left the LP and became a Republican.

Taking self ownership to this ridiculous extreme and advocating a return to dueling is an example of Libertarian Full Retard.

No thanx.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (wYVte)

97 Get 'er.

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (KXm42)

98 81

WTC came down because of box cutters.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (GFM2b)

99 the blog ate my ampersand

Posted by: Jones in CO


Pay to play buddy.

Posted by: International Brotherhood of Blog Hamsters at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (BrQrN)

100 If only murder were against the law. If we just had a law against that, no one would ever murder any one ever again.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 01:04 PM (VtjlW)

101 Desperado

Why don't you come to your senses?

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2012 01:05 PM (KXm42)

102 How does agitating for the triumph of Marxism in the '60's make one anti-government? Sounds like anti-representative-republican-government to me.

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 01:00 PM (4I3Uo)


If by "republican" you mean the political party, I would point out that they got their big start under Lyndon Johnson.

A good many of them (the useful idiots) actually thought Marxism was a form of organized non-government.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at December 27, 2012 01:05 PM (Qxe/p)

103 This issue is a microcosm of all that's wrong with Leftardismness: the Constitution and common sense are under constant assault from these idiots even though the law is settled, and has been for over two hundred years for very good reasons.

They. Absolutely. Will. Not. Stop.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 27, 2012 01:05 PM (yiIja)

104

1. Tax it.
2. Throw money at it.
3. Ban it.

/rips envelope

What are the 3 ways Progressives (heh) solve every problem?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 27, 2012 01:05 PM (osU7Q)

105 the blog ate my ampersand

Two words: AoSPrime

&

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 01:05 PM (QupBk)

106 I will make a good outlaw- my name is already an alias

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:05 PM (8sCoq)

107 >Two words: AoSPrime








showboat

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:06 PM (8sCoq)

108 Worse than that. You know what English chefs make? English food.
Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 12:58 PM (Hx5uv)
-------------------------------------------------------
Haggis!

Posted by: Brit with Bad Teefs at December 27, 2012 01:06 PM (jucos)

109
Taking self ownership to this ridiculous extreme and advocating a return to dueling is an example of Libertarian Full Retard.


Really, why do you want to save idiots? If dueling is voluntary I don't really care how Darwin Award winnerschoose to collect their prize. There is enough involuntary cruelty in this world forced on people, that we needn't worry about people who actually ask for it.

Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 01:06 PM (TULs6)

110 toby

once i broke the blog by typing multiple &'s you should try it

Posted by: phoenixgirl, Merry 3rd day of Christmas at December 27, 2012 01:06 PM (GVxQo)

111 Colorado Alex: This is exactly why I left the LP and became a Republican.Taking self ownership to this ridiculous extreme and advocating a return to dueling is an example of Libertarian Full Retard.No thanx.

Wait, you think that I believelegalizign dueling wouldbe a good thing? I don't. It's absurd, but that's the point; to demonstrate theabsurdity of theirarguments.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 01:06 PM (3x3F6)

112 the blog ate my cut n paste of someone else's ampersand


WHAT IS HAPPENING

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:07 PM (8sCoq)

113
The fact is that they want to play capture the flag and parade it about in the street a bit.
It's also about 2014 electoral politics - making the House GOP stand in the way of "The Bringing Preschool Kids Back to Life Bill of 2013"

Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 27, 2012 01:07 PM (Nfpnr)

114 And what?

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (KXm42)

115 some of us have & rights and some of us don't.....i'm in the haves

Posted by: phoenixgirl, Merry 3rd day of Christmas at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (GVxQo)

116

Whose baby is that?

What's your angle?

I'll buy that.

(repeat)

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (juEtX)

117 WHAT IS HAPPENING
Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:07 PM (8sCoq)



Do not taunt Happy Fun Blog.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Do not taunt the Tebow. at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (VtjlW)

118 They were never anti-government, they were simply opposed to anyone but themselves having power.

Well, some of the useful idiots were convinced they were anti-government but, yes.

Everybody is against the aristocracy until they realize they can be part of it.

Then they all become David Gregorys.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (huD71)

119 When I was younger, we still allowed dueling. We just called it Ass Whoopin. Or as the newspaper used to noted it when describing a beat down: a challenge was issued.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (QupBk)

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (53z96)

Posted by: phoenixgirl, Merry 3rd day of Christmas at December 27, 2012 01:08 PM (GVxQo)

122 Machineguns are running around $10 to $15k right now. If they declare
self-loaders to be MGs, I will be sending in my form 4, and I will
"repair" them.


Sure, they'd grandfather existing weapons provided they were registered. They couldn't declare them machineguns though, because they don't meet the definition. You wouldn't be able to legally convert one to full-auto.

They could, however, put them in the same category as a short barreled rifle. Existing guns would be grandfathered (if registered), but couldn't be transferred without going through the NFA process.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 27, 2012 01:09 PM (SY2Kh)

123 There is no coincidence that the same crowd that derides global warming skeptics as "denying science" also believes that gun bans work.

The nexus there has nothing to do with science.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 27, 2012 01:09 PM (imtbm)

124
I'm going to a gun show this weekend and I'm buying a gun.

Doubtful. All they will have stocked is magazine pouches and safety earmuffs. Shit is crazy.

Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 01:09 PM (TULs6)

125 Entropy: you can make the same argument about Loansharking.

If someone volunteers for a loan secured by the threat of leg-breaking, as long as it was voluntary, it's OK.

Or how about Necrophilia? If they secured permission from the corpse's estate's heirs, what is the harm?

Sorry, but no. There are limits.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:09 PM (wYVte)

126 Slow news day.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 27, 2012 01:09 PM (79ueO)

127 At Christmas dinner, my lefty father stated that we need to keep an eye on banning 3D printers now. He apparently saw a show on TV in which a guy was able to make a plastic gun using one! The horror!

Posted by: Pyrocles at December 27, 2012 01:09 PM (cv5Iw)

128 i don't have an issue with The Elites or Doing Something depending on the situation, it's just that their core idea in this situation is wrong (see Ta-Nehisi Coates at The Atlantic hilariously saying he'd rather not have a gun if confronted because "statistics show" he'd shoot himself and, besides, gonna die someday maan for an example of how absurd the absolutist anti-gun position can get)

i'm probably splitting hairs.

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 01:10 PM (60GaT)

129 If we made dueling legal and required everyone to open carry we would have a much more polite and safe society.

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 01:10 PM (53z96)

130 Do not taunt Happy Fun Blog.

The Happy Fun Blog is a four-eyed geek who's father was a hamster and whose mother smelled of elderberries.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 01:10 PM (3x3F6)

131

noodrock

Posted by: Soothsayer Gotrock at December 27, 2012 01:10 PM (atmwW)

132 The Left really has zero clue of the absolute shit storm they're steering this country towards in regards to firearms. Feinstein and her fellow travelers have all kept their terrarium lid screwed down so tight they r-e-a-l-l-y think everyone is going to stand in line for fingerprints and a permission slip to own an AR-15. Just like the rich always stand still to get fucked on higher taxes.

I don't give a flying fuck if there were twenty "massacres" last night in all 50 states. Neither my guns nor myself have ever killed or hurt anyone. Until that happens, the media, the Feds, and anyone else with sand in their 'gina over the "chirrun" can FUCK OFF. You don't get to run my life because some loser jackhole across the country couldn't handle his.

Posted by: B at December 27, 2012 01:10 PM (MT+0i)

133 FYI, we don't have a 2nd Amendment for bombs.

But people still build bombs.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 27, 2012 01:11 PM (huD71)

134 Vic: Open carry does not require code duello.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:11 PM (wYVte)

135 Fabricating projectile weapons is too easy. At some point in the near future they will have to come after ammunition.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 01:11 PM (QupBk)

136 & & & &

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 27, 2012 01:11 PM (GFM2b)

137 The 2nd Amendment doesn't seem to directly address crime, criminals, and individual self-defense. The rationale behind its inclusion in the Bill of Rights implicitly addresses foreign invasion and domestic tyranny within the phrase, "...being necessary to the security of a free state." 'Security of a free state' encompasses all sorts of threats, so I suppose crime could be considered one of them.Thomas Jefferson was more explicit,saying, "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

It has already been historically proven that private ownership of firearms has served as a deterrent to foreign invasion of the United States, specifically when Admiral Yamamoto refused to consider a mainland invasion of the US because "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Thus, arguing the constitutionality of private firearms ownership on the basis of personal protection from criminals is missing the intent of the 2nd Amendment. It's the wrong ground upon which to mount a defense. It isn't about crime. It's about resisting tyrants, foreign and domestic. Therefore, we fall into a trap when we allow the debate to be reframed as an argument for or against theindividual need for self-defense. It's about giving the people a last-resort means by which they can protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 01:11 PM (vtiE6)

138 129 If we made dueling legal and required everyone to open carry we would have a much more polite and safe society.

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2012 01:10 PM (53z96)


I agree 100% with the open carry part.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at December 27, 2012 01:12 PM (Qxe/p)

139 One of these days I'm going to post my argument as to why outlawing dueling should be unconstitutional...

I've always thought this keep "Bitches" in check. Slap them across the face.."what you going to do about it ...Bitch!" Pistols at dawn..be there, or STFU!

Posted by: Paladin at December 27, 2012 01:12 PM (XB2s0)

140 Amishdude: Hell, a cult in Japan used home-made nerve gas to attack subways.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:12 PM (wYVte)

141 We went straight to necrophelia in our analogy?


Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2012 01:12 PM (KXm42)

142
Sorry, but no. There are limits.

So you support a handgun ban?

Sorry dude, but no. There are limits.

Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 01:12 PM (TULs6)

143 If by "republican" you mean the political party, I would point out that they got their big start under Lyndon Johnson.

Except that he didn't. He ment "Representative Republican" as in our nominal system of government. To which the 60's radicals were largely opposed.

It should here be mentioned that anarchy is simply another form of tyranny, since it invites despots and dictators in the mid- to long term and and subjugates the weak to the strong in the short term.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 27, 2012 01:12 PM (/eBe8)

144 Yay! My Double Secret Platinum AoSHQ membership was accepted! Now to chech the mailbox for the decoder ring!

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 27, 2012 01:13 PM (GFM2b)

145 When liberal elites say they know how to solve gun violence, but don't know a clip from a magazine, don't know a bullet from a cartridge, don't know what a barrel shroud is, and can't tell what's an 'assault weapon' and what isn't, I have my doubts.

Posted by: Socratease at December 27, 2012 01:13 PM (DRPrm)

146 @50. That would mean you start with felons, which would disproportionately affect the "inner city".


Really, do I need to say it?


Posted by: pep at December 27, 2012 12:53 PM (6TB1Z)

A few years ago when Philadelphia tried to address the uninsured driver problem in the city (@ 50% of drivers), members of city counsel started shrieking that the law was racist because it would unfairly punish minorities.I don't think they saw any irony.

Posted by: elliot at December 27, 2012 01:13 PM (blkVM)

147 If only someone would pass a law making it illegal for people to be bad.

Posted by: Marmo at December 27, 2012 01:13 PM (pcgW1)

148 Liberals don't get 'irony'.

Posted by: Socratease at December 27, 2012 01:14 PM (DRPrm)

149 The sad thing is, American politics has been going in the way of "bullshit artists" instead of the smartest people running our country, states and cities.

The men and women that are in Washington today are as clueless as the heroin addict passed out on the floor, completely oblivious to their surroundings.

Power is a drug and our politicians are addicts. They don't give a shit about America, it's citizens or it's dominating greatness. They are the elite ruling class and FUCK YOU if you don't like it.

Posted by: © Sponge at December 27, 2012 01:14 PM (UK9cE)

150 I also need some more double stack mags for my H(ampersand)K USP

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:14 PM (8sCoq)

151
Democrats have a natural advantage in playing to this crowd, as they are promiscuously in favor of government action in the first place.

That, and a hefty proportion of their supporters are none-too-bright.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:15 PM (4u2LN)

152 Paladin: In a civilized society, the proper response is to shoot the stupid fucker in the back after he makes his threat to kill you at dawn.

That was one expensive bitchslap. Cost that idiot his life. And no sane person is going to prosecute a man for killing a professional duelist who was threatening to stalk him if he didn't get his duel.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:15 PM (wYVte)

153
135Fabricating projectile weapons is too easy. At some point in the near future they will have to come after ammunition.

They can't outlaw ingenuity.
A recent episode of 'Rocket City Rednecks' on NatGeo showed how to make a laser gun capable of some serious damage.

They took the blue lasers out of some Blue Tooth boxes and grouped them together.
It was pretty cool.



Posted by: wheatie at December 27, 2012 01:15 PM (K4wCe)

154 Fabricating projectile weapons is too easy. At some point in the near future they will have to come after ammunition.
Even that won't do much good. If you have the capability to make a gun, then you have the capability to make bullets and cartridges. Making modernpropellent isn't going to be that difficult.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 01:15 PM (3x3F6)

155 It's also no coincidence that the same crowd that smokes very, very _illegal_ marijuana, drank alcohol before they were 21, etc., also believes gun control will work.

Again, the nexus has nothing to do with science.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 27, 2012 01:15 PM (imtbm)

156 http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy4zo9u

In a show of confidence despite uncertainty caused by the Sandy Hook massacre, firearms maker Smith Wesson (SWHC)
bolstered its stock buyback plan on Thursday by $15 million and
revealed it quickly blew through a repurchase program unveiled just
weeks ago.


The news encouraged shareholders, who bid Smith Wesson’s beaten-down stock 2% higher in premarket trading.


The Springfield, Mass.-based gun manufacturer said its board of
directors has approved adding $15 million to its share repurchase plan
through June 30."
FUCK YOU OBAMA!!

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 27, 2012 01:15 PM (HDgX3)

157
100 AtC

Oops, sorry, I should read comments before posting.

Posted by: Marmo at December 27, 2012 01:16 PM (pcgW1)

158 Therefore, we fall into a trap when we allow the
debate to be reframed as an argument for or against theindividual need
for self-defense. It's about giving the people a last-resort means by
which they can protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 01:11 PM (vtiE6)



It doesn't make any difference if we are reasoned and logical. They would behave the same no matter what are our arguments.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 27, 2012 01:16 PM (bb5+k)

159 Remember when the antis used to say the 2nd Amendment applied only to militias, defined by them as the National Guard? Then the Supreme Court ruled conclusively that it was an individual right.

Now the antis have suddenly discovered "sporting purposes" in the 2nd Amendment, and want to ban the very weapons that they used to say were the only ones allowed under their "militia" clause.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 27, 2012 01:16 PM (celt+)

160 Dueling was outlawed because professional duelists were taking money
from people who wanted a murder for hire to provoke victims into dueling
them.


what's you point? Eventually... my duelists can kick you duelist's ass...peace on earth.

Posted by: Paladin at December 27, 2012 01:16 PM (XB2s0)

161 >>"The Left used to be anti-government. "
In which alternate reality was this ever true?
Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 12:51 PM (4I3Uo)

>>>You obviously did not live through the sixties.
They were anti-government before they took it over.

If I'm remembering correctly, "Destructive Generation" by Collier and Horowitz made the case where the Old Left and 60's "liberals" (read: original hippies) tended to lean libertarian until the New Left (Ayers, radicals, et al) hijacked the label by the late 60's; hence, "left" and "liberal" seem synonymous today, whereas at once point they meant two different things.

Basically, radicals hijacked the "liberal" label then and ruined the term. Nowadays, they just move under the label "progressive." Still the same folks behind it all.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at December 27, 2012 01:16 PM (j5VOl)

162
"Thus, arguing the constitutionality of private firearms ownership on the basis of personal protection from criminals is missing the intent of the 2nd Amendment."

Yup. That angle is covered under the 14th Ammendment so them uppity postbellum negroes could fend off the local Democrat - er, um- KKK assholes.

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 01:17 PM (4I3Uo)

163 Entropy: So, do you feel that advocating legislation banning Necrophilia, Loansharking, and Dueling is the same as banning handguns?

This is why I left libertarianism. Some libertarians are just stupid fuckers who won't use their high IQ to consider common sense.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:17 PM (wYVte)

164 For those confused about why assault weapons bans won't work, log onto some Call of Duty game and limit you and your honest citizen team to single shot revolvers -- see how many seconds your team lasts.

This isn't rocket science, even the average 10 year old XBOXer would tell you that you are being stupid if you think the bad guys are going to give up their big guns.. All you're like to do is make it harder for honest citizens to defend themselves (and the public).

Posted by: drfredc at December 27, 2012 01:17 PM (BoLlc)

165 Posted this to FB a little hile ago (to taunt and annoy my lib friends):
ý"Armed guards at schools are ineffective and unnecessary" goes the liberal mantra.
How then to explain this:
"The University of Chicago Laboratory School, where Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel sends his children, is protected by an armed, on-duty police officer."
<and a Bretibart link>
Or, of course, this:
"Sidwell Friends, a Washington, D.C. area private school, has 11 armed security guards and is apparently hiring an additional police officer."
This is the school to which DC elites send their kids, who are obviously more important than ours.
<and an msn link>

Posted by: speedster1 at December 27, 2012 01:18 PM (v40Bj)

166 I also need some more double stack mags for my H(ampersand)K USP

Good luck. H&K USP mags were higher than a cat's back before this madness.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 27, 2012 01:19 PM (GFM2b)

167 i have a minor obsession on this point (and i know it's partially a joke) but the fact that Southern Democrats were segregationists means about as much as the fact that Republicans used to be for high tariffs

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 01:19 PM (60GaT)

168 If I'm remembering correctly, "Destructive Generation" by Collier and Horowitz made the case where the Old Left and 60's "liberals" (read: original hippies) tended to lean libertarian until the New Left (Ayers, radicals, et al) hijacked the label by the late 60's; hence, "left" and "liberal" seem synonymous today, whereas at once point they meant two different things.

Basically, radicals hijacked the "liberal" label then and ruined the term. Nowadays, they just move under the label "progressive." Still the same folks behind it all.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at December 27, 2012 01:16 PM (j5VOl)


That's my observation/recollection of it, although I didn't read any books. I just lived through it and shook my head a lot.


Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at December 27, 2012 01:20 PM (Qxe/p)

169 Southern Democrats are still segregationists.

Why do government forms still have checkboxes for race?

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:20 PM (wYVte)

170 to 162

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 01:20 PM (60GaT)

171 Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 01:11 PM (vtiE6)

________________

You're right in a theoretical and historical sense. But the argument won't win people over today, especially soft Democrats. Tell them you need a gun because you fear Obama will put you in a labor camp, they will laugh at you. Tell them you need a gun just in case a bad guy breaks into your house at 2am....they'll be sympathetic and can relate.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 27, 2012 01:20 PM (HDgX3)

172
Kristophr, the genius non-idiot who mispells his own name:

Do you think failure to prosecute over those crimes would cause them all to become more popular thanfootball in a fortnight?

Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 01:20 PM (TULs6)

173
The Left used to be anti-government. "

In which alternate reality was this ever true? Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 12:51 PM (4I3Uo)


Anyone remember the Sixties? Daniel Ellsberg? SDS? Weathermen? Black Panthers? Any of that shit ring a bell?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:20 PM (4u2LN)

174 I'm not saying that we should ban all swords but we should ban swords with pointy ends and sharp edges. For the children.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 01:21 PM (Hx5uv)

175 One funny thing I've noticed about the gun debates on facebook so far is that people treat "studies" with religious reverence.

Oh look, you cited a study that says most people who are shot (in a city) are not shot for self-defense. (with actual criteria and data behind paywalls) Clearly that means guns are harmful and should be banned in a civilized society. Discussion of the relevence of the data and analysis is also unscientific. Science is about dogma, y'know.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at December 27, 2012 01:21 PM (kLZ5n)

176

There is no way that they can 'ban' guns.

Well, let me re-phrase that...they can ban guns, but it will not take guns off the streets.
There is no way.

We have thousands of miles of coastline and porous borders on all sides.

They can't manage to keep illegal immigrants and drug shipments out of the country.
How are they ever going to keep illegal guns from coming in?

Posted by: wheatie at December 27, 2012 01:21 PM (K4wCe)

177 What's that? You think these RL examples of women defending
themselves and others with guns are acceptable sacrifices "for" 20
children? And you called yourself a feminist?

/sigh

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at December 27, 2012 01:21 PM (kLZ5n)

178 Daniel Ellsberg?

---

You mean back when the NYT was interested in whether the government was lying to us?

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 01:22 PM (Hx5uv)

179 >Good luck. HK USP mags were higher than a cat's back before this madness.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 27, 2012 01:19 PM (GFM2b)

YEAH- THE ONES i FOUND ONLINE- OUT OF STOCK, OF COURSE, were about $40
capslock error and Im not starting over

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:22 PM (8sCoq)

180 Anyone remember the Sixties? Daniel Ellsberg? SDS? Weathermen? Black Panthers? Any of that shit ring a bell?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:20 PM (4u2LN)



All prep for the glorious socialist state that comes after they tear the existing structures down.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at December 27, 2012 01:23 PM (kLZ5n)

181 Plus Sidwell Friends has a significant Secret Service presence, given that Michelle's Kids go there.

Posted by: Fox2! at December 27, 2012 01:23 PM (1Qpmy)

182 The Supreme Court in Heller and McDonald ruled that the 2d amendment guarantees an individual right to self defense. All else stems from that precept, whether you are defending against a criminal or a tyrannical government.

Posted by: real joe at December 27, 2012 01:23 PM (PD2ad)

183 People who beat swords into plows eventually plow for those who kept their swords.

- Ben Franklin

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 27, 2012 01:24 PM (HDgX3)

184 Entropy: Is that all you have left? Flaming a psuedonym?

I accept your surrender.

( Look up "employer Google ego search" when you get a chance. )

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:24 PM (wYVte)

185 One funny thing I've noticed about the gun debates on facebook so far is that people treat "studies" with religious reverence.

---

How about that study in the overnight thread that found a correlation with violent crime and three factors, beer consumption, abortion, and leaded gasoline? You know what i didn't mention? Gun control, poverty, broken families, education.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 01:24 PM (Hx5uv)

186 Entopy: Do you think failure to prosecute over those crimes would cause them all to become more popular thanfootball in a fortnight?

So, are you advocating the decriminalization of Loansharking, Dueling, and necrophilia?

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:25 PM (wYVte)

187 No court or government will decide for me whether or not I can defend myself and my home with a gun

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 27, 2012 01:25 PM (8sCoq)

188
"Anyone remember the Sixties? Daniel Ellsberg? SDS? Weathermen? Black Panthers? Any of that shit ring a bell?"

IMO, their utopian anarchist short-term tactical mask concealed a long-term totalitarian strategic goal. YMMV and I think we're getting into hair-splitting. I'd rather discuss how gun banners are doodieheads.

Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 01:26 PM (4I3Uo)

189 Making modernpropellent isn't going to be that difficult.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 27, 2012 01:15 PM (3x3F6)

Trust me, it is very difficultto make it right. You want a propellant, not an explosive. I suggest the book 'Homemade Ammo: How To Make It, How To Reload It, How To Cache It' by Duncan Long.

Not recommended for nervous types with shaky hands.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 01:26 PM (vtiE6)

190 I didn't read any books. I just lived through it and shook my head a lot.

---

Yeah, I lived through the sixties, too. And some of it I can actually remember. Not the good parts, of course.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 01:26 PM (Hx5uv)

191 YEAH- THE ONES i FOUND ONLINE- OUT OF STOCK, OF COURSE, were about $40 capslock error and Im not starting over

I've never seen the 12 round .45acp ones for less than 59 bucks.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 27, 2012 01:26 PM (GFM2b)

192 Troyriser: Cordite is fairly easy. Guncotton is even easier.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:27 PM (wYVte)

193 IMO, their utopian anarchist short-term tactical mask concealed a long-term totalitarian strategic goal.

---

Yeah, I was a useful idiot in the sixties.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 01:27 PM (Hx5uv)

194 It is further no coincidence that those who decry border enforcement also believe gun control will work.

Again, the nexus has nothing to do with science.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 27, 2012 01:28 PM (imtbm)

195
You mean back when the NYT was interested in whether the government was lying to us?
Posted by: WalrusRex at December 27, 2012 01:22 PM (Hx5uv)


Yeah, I go back that far.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:28 PM (4u2LN)

196
One funny thing I've noticed about the gun debates on facebook so far is that people treat "studies" with religious reverence.


Social "science" "studies" (gotta have sarcastic quotation marks around both) are just ginned up Red agitprop. They invariably lack any scientific rigor whatever, the "study" having been conducted with the conclusion already in hand. Everything else is just kabuki.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:30 PM (4u2LN)

197 I'm glad there is a new thread. Because when these gun threads turn to--as they usually do--toward discussions of domestic military force against Americans, it gets . . . unpleasant.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 27, 2012 01:31 PM (imtbm)

198 These studies are only treated with reverence when they are their own ginned up product.

If it is something done by Trent Lott or Gary Kleck, it is all evil hackwork in their eyes.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:32 PM (wYVte)

199
Trust me, it is very difficultto make it right. You want a propellant, not an explosive.

I made guncotton as a 12 year old. Nothing to it.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:32 PM (4u2LN)

200 Troyriser: Cordite is fairly easy. Guncotton is even easier.
Posted by: Kristophr at December 27, 2012 01:27 PM (wYVte)

Cordite is made using nitroglycerin. Guncotton requires working with undiluted sulfuric and nitric acids. 'Easy' and 'easier' are relative terms, given the context.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 01:36 PM (vtiE6)

201 It is further no coincidence that those who decry border enforcement also believe gun control will work.

I loved that demotivator that someone posted here awhile back with the dreadlock chick and the caption:

Thinks that laws will prevent people from owning guns.

Smokes pot.[/b[

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 01:37 PM (QupBk)

202 crap

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 01:37 PM (QupBk)

203 I made guncotton as a 12 year old. Nothing to it.

We made napalm.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 27, 2012 01:38 PM (QupBk)

204 I made guncotton as a 12 year old. Nothing to it.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:32 PM (4u2LN)

So I've been told. Depends on the person, I suppose. I skated my high school chemistry class.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 01:38 PM (vtiE6)

205 Social "science" "studies" (gotta have sarcastic quotation marks around both) are just ginned up Red agitprop. They invariably lack any scientific rigor whatever, the "study" having been conducted with the conclusion already in hand. Everything else is just kabuki.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 27, 2012 01:30 PM (4u2LN)


Unfortunately, they work pretty well on the citers. It's HARVARD, so just uncritically accept whatever is claimed in the link!

What, question the conclusions? Do you have a PHD?

Freakin' paywalls. Freakin' college "educations".

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at December 27, 2012 01:42 PM (kLZ5n)

206 The leftists know that a majority of us will not register our guns let alone give them up. They want to make us instant felons in order to put us under control of the police. This isn't about guns. It's about control.

Hell, everything that leftists do and/or legislate is about taking away my liberty and gaining even more control of my life.

If the hysteria causes the repubs in the House to cave either through MFM pressure or the "deal" to fix the economy (quid pro quo), and the authorities start coming for my weapons, then you'll be hearing about me on the news.

Posted by: Soona at December 27, 2012 01:46 PM (DtrMW)

207 Now they will know why they fear the night...

Posted by: Tulsa Doom at December 27, 2012 01:52 PM (KtmYy)

208 The REAL key is that the Left believes thatthe pastdoes not matter...

That Socialism will work 'this time'...

That Gun Control will work 'this time' (and not lead to massacres and millions being killed by their own governments)...

That Government intervention in the economy 'works'!

That Democracy will 'work' THIS TIME! and we won't be overwhelmed by a 'Free Shit' Electorate...

Posted by: History, yelling... again... at December 27, 2012 01:53 PM (lZBBB)

209
Entropy: Is that all you have left? Flaming a psuedonym?

I accept your surrender.



You give what you get dipshit. You're whole argument amounts to call people stupid and appeal to 'common sense'. Derp-a-derp.

Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 01:54 PM (TULs6)

210
guncotton requires working with undiluted sulfuric and nitric acids.

AKA drain cleaner.

Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 01:57 PM (TULs6)

211 AKA drain cleaner.
Posted by: Entropy at December 27, 2012 01:57 PM (TULs6)

See "I skated my high school chemistry class" above.

Posted by: troyriser at December 27, 2012 02:01 PM (vtiE6)

212
127 At Christmas dinner, my lefty father stated that we need to keep an eye on banning 3D printers now. He apparently saw a show on TV in which a guy was able to make a plastic gun using one! The horror!
Posted by: Pyrocles at December 27, 2012 01:09 PM (cv5Iw)



Does he have a Home Depot drill press in his garage? If yes, he can build a firearm. Mate it up with some real skill and he could easily build a full auto evil assault rifle out of steel and aluminum scraps.

Can't stop the signal, Mal.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 27, 2012 02:01 PM (c2oll)

213 let's not talk bad about common sense

Posted by: JDP at December 27, 2012 02:01 PM (60GaT)

214 173

The Left used to be anti-government. "

In which alternate reality was this ever true? Posted by: Jaws at December 27, 2012 12:51 PM (4I3Uo)

Anyone remember the Sixties? Daniel Ellsberg? SDS? Weathermen? Black Panthers? Any of that shit ring a bell?

*********

I lived in DC back then. The Left was anti-war, anti "imperialism", anti-"establishment". They were never anti-government, only the bits they opposed.

Posted by: Jim Sonweed at December 27, 2012 02:03 PM (HVtRc)

215 @175: One funny thing I've noticed about the gun debates on facebook so far is that people treat "studies" with religious reverence.

20 years ago when I was hanging out on talk.politics.guns, the people there would tear into these studies, dig out the details and check them against routine statistical fallacies, faulty sampling techniques, cause/effect ambiguities, biases, etc. The level of discussion today is much more superficial, people's ability to analyze the information they're presented with is much weaker. I guess that's what an education system run by liberals gives you, probably by design.

Posted by: Socratease at December 27, 2012 02:09 PM (DRPrm)

216 @212oes he have a Home Depot drill press in his garage? If yes, he can build a firearm. Mate it up with some real skill and he could easily build a full auto evil assault rifle out of steel and aluminum scraps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khyber_Pass_Copy

Posted by: Socratease at December 27, 2012 02:12 PM (DRPrm)

217 We can't stop drugs but we can stop guns?

Posted by: bobbymike at December 27, 2012 03:18 PM (wJSZn)






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