A fascinating collection of WWII photos [CharlieBrown'sD????]

There are some great photos on this site, although all of them are interesting. Perhaps it is overly romanticizing the times, but seeing these photos reminds me that we were, and hopefully will be a great nation.

(click to embiggen)

[Update]:

Moron 'Nevergiveup' sends this photo of his dad:

Screen shot 2011-11-11 at 7.51.13 AM
Capt. Nevergiveup Sr., Iwo Jima: 19Feb1945, First wave 4th Marines

Posted by: Open Blogger at 11:02 AM



Comments

1 You figured out how to lock the rest of the Cobs out?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 24, 2012 11:03 AM (GEICT)

2 >> You figured out how to lock the rest of the Cobs out?

Yeah, CBD.

WTF? Can you send me my new password?

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:04 AM (OZPoa)

3 I'll tell you one thing: both my parents were combat vets (my mom a combat nurse - a Captain -was on a hospital ship that was attacked by the Japanese and my dad was a combat soldier in Europe) and they would haveNEVER voted for that worthless piece of shit that is currently infesting the White House

Posted by: TexasJew at December 24, 2012 11:06 AM (V0jvX)

4 We will never be that great nation again.

We have too many free loaders and have imported too many people from 3rd world shit holes to ever be that nation again.

When those pictures were taken the country was 85+% white it's now 72% and dropping like a stone.

Oh and we are at the edge of fiscal calamity so maybe what emerges can be great but not until then.

GIRD!
LOINS!

SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED!

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 24, 2012 11:07 AM (zOP5o)

5 Is this thing on???

Posted by: mon nom est mpfs at December 24, 2012 11:09 AM (iYbLN)

6 Updated with a picture.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:09 AM (OZPoa)

7 Except for that whole minority and women bugaboo, I mean white guys, except the queers, sure had it great back then.

It's kind of like those Renaissance Faires participants, matter of fact any re-enactment types, the have a totally unrealistic view of what the times were like. But people need to think that at some point there was a real Golden age when life was good for and mana rained from heaven.

Posted by: Mike Hunt at December 24, 2012 11:11 AM (G6kli)

8 Lucky Witch--that's not HW Bush is it?

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 24, 2012 11:11 AM (MPjT8)

9 That Bastogne picture was pretty cool; 68 years ago today.

Posted by: DaveinNC at December 24, 2012 11:12 AM (/NgNT)

10 Thanks for that. My dad was a WWII vet. He never brags or talks about it. a few time when drinking he told me some horror stories,

Thety were truly the greatest generation. I can't hold a candle to them.


As for genration X , y and Z no way.

I truly hope we can recapture what made America great.

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at December 24, 2012 11:12 AM (/2sFI)

11 Posted by: General Woundwort at December 24, 2012 11:07 AM (zOP5o)

It's not that the percentage of whites has fallen that's the problem. It's that when those pictures were taken the non-whites were 100% assimilated (ok, that's an exaggeration, but you get my meaning) into the melting pot of American society. Today, there is very little assimilation of the groups that make up the 28%.

That's the problem.

Posted by: Vizzini at December 24, 2012 11:12 AM (O7Q1u)

12 Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:04 AM (OZPoa)

Apparently I am the only one not horribly hungover.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2012 11:16 AM (GsoHv)

13 11 -

No offense, dude, but your knowledge of history and current events is rather in need of an upgrade.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2012 11:17 AM (BeSEI)

14 Thank you for the great work this morning CBD. The pics are engrossing.

Posted by: JimboHoffa at December 24, 2012 11:17 AM (qEZxt)

15 No offense taken. Please upgrade me.

Posted by: Vizzini at December 24, 2012 11:18 AM (O7Q1u)

16 Great pics. I sent CBD a pic of my Dad on Iwo Jima if he is able to post it. 4th Marines Recon Unit

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:19 AM (79ueO)

17 We have too many free loaders and have imported too many people from 3rd world shit holes to ever be that nation again.

#11. I agree, though that is not to diminish the nature of the problem we face. The nation has always been alarmed that an influx of unassimilable foreigners would destroy the nation (think Irish, Italians, Jews, Germans, whatever). What's different now is that we indulge the multiculti crap in a way we never did before. To be accurate, there were many in the old days who DIDN'T assimilate. Their kids did, though. Think the German Bund. Those who did assimilate were my ancestors, and they spoke German, or Swedish amongst themselves. The Scots couldn't even understand each other, though.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 11:20 AM (6TB1Z)

18 Anyone ever visit the USMC Museum at Quantico? I'm looking over the pics my wife took with our son just before he shipped off to PI. Awesome! The whole museum is underground, with a glass "steeple" like structure up top. Lots of cool stuff there!

Posted by: EC at December 24, 2012 11:20 AM (doBIb)

19 "Perhaps it is overly romanticizing the times, but seeing these photos
reminds me that we were, and hopefully will be a great nation."

America was a great nation at a time when America was hugely different than it is now, demographically and culturally.

Demography and culture matter. In fact, they are central. Unfortunately for us.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 24, 2012 11:21 AM (gqT4g)

20 @11

This is true.

My people came from Italy and Poland and virtually no one on my side speaks Italian or Polish because my parents, grand parents and great grand parents refused to teach us these useless languages from the shit holes they left because they wanted us to become American first.


Posted by: General Woundwort at December 24, 2012 11:21 AM (zOP5o)

21 Anyone ever visit the USMC Museum at Quantico? I'm looking over the pics my wife took with our son just before he shipped off to PI. Awesome! The whole museum is underground, with a glass "steeple" like structure up top. Lots of cool stuff there!
Posted by: EC at December 24, 2012 11:20 AM (doBIb)


I have to put that on on my list. I was at the museum at Parris Island a few times.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:22 AM (79ueO)

22 >> Apparently I am the only one not horribly hungover.

Busy morning.

Thanks for the content. I'm sure Ace will give you a subscription discount.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:22 AM (OZPoa)

23
The only thing that could "save" this country would be some kind of massive invasion. By save I mean bring us together for a common cause and wipe out a lot of fluffy lib theory that people accept as reality.
I bet you'd never get a declaration of war against the Nazis or Tojo in 2013.
There are kids today as tough or tougher than the Greatest Generation, but I don't think there are as many of them

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 24, 2012 11:23 AM (MPjT8)

24 Posted by: JimboHoffa at December 24, 2012 11:17 AM (qEZxt)

Andy bailed my ass out (for about the 20th time this week) and made the post viewable and interesting looking.

Folks, the cobloggers are unbelievable around here. The amount of work these guys do on this blog is impressive, and the sense of humor they display behind the scenes is incredible.

We are lucky that Ace has such a collection of interesting and helpful people who are genuinely attached to this blog.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2012 11:23 AM (GsoHv)

25
This is true.

My people came from Italy and Poland and virtually no one on my side speaks Italian or Polish because my parents, grand parents and great grand parents refused to teach us these useless languages from the shit holes they left because they wanted us to become American first.


Posted by: General Woundwort at December 24, 2012 11:21 AM (zOP5o)


Yup, in the old days the aim was to integrate all immigrants INTO America and to become Americans. Now the liberals want the new immigrants to change America?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:24 AM (79ueO)

26 My grandfather went ashore at Omaha beach. I've never been there myself, but my wife brought me home a souvenir round (looks like the equivalent of a 7.62 or so) and a sandwich baggie of sand from the beach. He literally, I've asked every member of the family, never spoke about the war.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:24 AM (tkoGU)

27 By the way, merry CHRISTmas to all. You morons keep me sane(kinda).

Posted by: JimboHoffa at December 24, 2012 11:25 AM (qEZxt)

28 Speaking of museums, IIRC the guy who runs the WWII museum in NOLA is a moron.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:25 AM (OZPoa)

29 I liked that WW2 museum in New Orleans. I was there pre-flood. Seeing the Enigma machine was pretty cool.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:26 AM (tkoGU)

30 My grandfather went ashore at Omaha beach. I've never been there myself

I was there this summer. It is a beautiful, wide beach, except the bluffs overlooking it are completely saturated with shellholes filled with grass. There are wind-powered go-carts whizzing up and down the beach. It was surreal.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 11:27 AM (6TB1Z)

31 My grandfather went ashore at Omaha beach. I've never been there myself, but my wife brought me home a souvenir round (looks like the equivalent of a 7.62 or so) and a sandwich baggie of sand from the beach. He literally, I've asked every member of the family, never spoke about the war.
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:24 AM (tkoGU)

Yeah my dad never spoke that much specifically about Iwo Jima either. On the other hand I never asked him direct questions ( I was an idiot ). He often woke up screaming 30-40 years later. But he did stay in for 20 after the War.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:27 AM (79ueO)

32 Wind-powered go carts? I've got to go look that up.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:28 AM (tkoGU)

33 I don't drink.

I wait.

Posted by: Bayonets on my Christmas Tree at December 24, 2012 11:28 AM (EYx1k)

34 but seeing these photos reminds me that we were, and hopefully will be a great nation.


These pictures were "pre-1965". I don't view this as an "immigrant problem or a race problem". I view it as an LBJ Great Society program.


During the 40s people believed you should work for your daily bread and were ashamed to take handouts. LBJ ushered in the society of free shit and gimme.


That is what is destroying the US.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 11:28 AM (53z96)

35 >> My people came from Italy and Poland and virtually no one on my side speaks Italian or Polish because my parents, grand parents and great grand parents refused to teach us these useless languages from the shit holes they left because they wanted us to become American first.

Same here. My grandfather's siblings were all born in Italy. He was born in Chicago.

That generation spoke fluent Italian, of course. The kids (like my dad) ... could barely speak a word.

Then the bias was to assimilation. Now, the bias is to "cultural identity" or some crap like that. It makes a difference.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:28 AM (OZPoa)

36 Wind-powered go carts?

It was the best descriptor I could think of. Think sailboats with wheels.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 11:29 AM (6TB1Z)

37 I had an uncle at Omaha. Apparently he came back a bit shell shocked. He never seemed odd to me but we were under strict orders never to bring it up.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 24, 2012 11:29 AM (MPjT8)

38 Well, I found a flickr image of French wind-powered go carts. Attempt at linkfailed. What will they think of next...?

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:30 AM (tkoGU)

39 My dad was in the Pacific - the 25th Division. They spent 165 straight days in combat - he was pissed at the general for trying to make a name for himself until the day he died. He didn't talk about it much, but he did have a copy of the book that was done about it (they had an artist along who documented much of it) that I now own. It doesn't sugar coat the realities of what they faced. Very interesting.

If you're interested, reprints are available on Amazon. Look for: 165 Days: A Story Of The 25th Division.

Posted by: Vizzini at December 24, 2012 11:30 AM (O7Q1u)

40 Folks, the cobloggers are unbelievable around here. The amount of work these guys do on this blog is impressive, and the sense of humor they display behind the scenes is incredible.

We are lucky that Ace has such a collection of interesting and helpful people who are genuinely attached to this blog.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2012 11:23 AM (GsoHv)I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you all cob-loggers and everyone who steps in when the Ewok goes silent.

Posted by: JimboHoffa at December 24, 2012 11:31 AM (qEZxt)

41 What vic said at 34.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:31 AM (OZPoa)

42 15 -

It's not an "all or nothing" thing. Things weren't all better back then, and they're not all worse now. I know a lot of people around here are bummed about the recent election, and can't see better times ahead.

It's probably going to be difficult, but we can get there.

One simple observation anyone can make RIGHT NOW is that if you walk around a shopping mall, there are people of all races, some people speaking other languages, and NOBODY is looking around, thinking there's something wrong with that. If you go into a store and buy a drill, or a Nike shirt, or whatever, somebody who was born on the other side of the world might walk in two minutes later and buy the exact same thing. That's assimilation!

Obama will not survive the four years of his term without being shown to be the Scoamf he is. What comes next? That's up to us, but we don't need a World War to fix what is wrong with America.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2012 11:32 AM (BeSEI)

43
Well, I found a flickr image of French wind-powered go carts. Attempt at linkfailed. What will they think of next...?

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:30 AM (tkoGU)

Those things have been around for a long long time. Shorpy has photos of them here at Daytona Beach back in the teens and 20s. .

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 11:32 AM (53z96)

44 Sitting in front of me is my Grandapaps Army hat. It has and original unit insinnia pin from the 314th. He was in the Battle of the bulge among other engaugements. Two silver stars a bronze star and a purple heart. He was a dude.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 11:32 AM (3Y7RV)

45 One at Daytona Beach 1903


http://www.shorpy.com/node/13902?size=_original#caption

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 11:33 AM (53z96)

46 My dad was in the Pacific - the 25th Division. They spent 165 straight days in combat - he was pissed at the general for trying to make a name for himself until the day he died. He didn't talk about it much, but he did have a copy of the book that was done about it (they had an artist along who documented much of it) that I now own. It doesn't sugar coat the realities of what they faced. Very interesting.

If you're interested, reprints are available on Amazon. Look for: 165 Days: A Story Of The 25th Division.
Posted by: Vizzini at December 24, 2012 11:30 AM (O7Q1u)


Tropic Lightning!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:33 AM (79ueO)

47 Oops, that was Ormand Beach

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 11:34 AM (53z96)

48 My people came from Italy and Poland and virtually
no one on my side speaks Italian or Polish because my parents, grand
parents and great grand parents refused to teach us these useless
languages from the shit holes they left because they wanted us to become
American first.




Posted by: General Woundwort at December 24, 2012 11:21 AM (zOP5o)

______________________
I don't think there's anything wrong with learning another language no matter how useless it is. My mother's side of the family is German and she is fluent in German, taught to her by her parents and grandparents. Doesn't mean she is any less American. I grew up with a lot of Jewish kids who learned Hebrew as well, didn't make them less American either.

The difference there is they learned the second language to keep their roots. That's a HUGE difference from the millions of Hispanics who learn just enough English to get by but still live their daily lives in Spanish.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 24, 2012 11:34 AM (HDgX3)

49 Two silver stars a bronze star and a purple heart. He was a dude.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 11:32 AM (3Y7RV)

That's impressive and something to be very proud of

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:34 AM (79ueO)

50 Yeah, once I saw the pics I recognized the idea from the dune riders down the Cape. Never tried it, but they rent the things out and give lessons for pretty cheap. Maybe next summer.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:35 AM (tkoGU)

51 I don't think we will be a great nation until we go through a period of collapse and hardship. The Takers won this election, now we need to FULLY reap the consequences or nothing will change.

My hope is that we will get to a point where the government has to drop all welfare and entitlement programs and Americans have to become more responsible for themselves and others. Private charities used to be the source for help when someone was down and out, and that was a better way to go. Time to reset or we will never be what we once were.

Posted by: Evan Maughan at December 24, 2012 11:35 AM (+joGy)

52 Thanks, CBD. And thanks for all your help this week (and the rest of the volunteers too).

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:36 AM (OZPoa)

53 Looking at these photos, I imagine we have the same reaction that the Romans of 440 AD would have had, on seeing paintings of Caesar's Legions.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 24, 2012 11:36 AM (UFTmf)

54 Two silver stars a bronze star and a purple heart. He was a dude.

Apparently he had enough testicular fortitude to be three dudes.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 11:37 AM (6TB1Z)

55 Nice photos of the Aleutians. It is remarkable that they found a sunny day to take those. The sun really doesn't shine much there.


Someday when you are bored pick up a copy of The Thousand Mile War. The new one. There are quite a few things in it that have been declassified, and it makes an interesting read, particularly in the face of those who think the US can never be attacked on her own soil.

Posted by: tcn at December 24, 2012 11:37 AM (VLG62)

56 During the 40s people believed you should work for your daily bread and
were ashamed to take handouts. LBJ ushered in the society of free shit
and gimme.


Yep. I read something a few months ago where the author was openly contemptuous of self-reliance as an ideal. It wasn't outside the maintream of Leftard opinion. Maybe it isn't outside the mainstream of mainstream opinion anymore.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 24, 2012 11:38 AM (QKKT0)

57 Two silver stars a bronze star and a purple heart. He was a dude.

His Man Card would say: "Member # 000-00-0001"

Posted by: EC at December 24, 2012 11:38 AM (doBIb)

58 53
Looking at these photos, I imagine we have the same reaction that the
Romans of 440 AD would have had, on seeing paintings of Caesar's
Legions.


Posted by: Tom Servo at December 24, 2012 11:36 AM (UFTmf)


But that is history, and they only teach "social studies" in schools these days.

Posted by: tcn at December 24, 2012 11:38 AM (VLG62)

59 One simple observation anyone can make RIGHT NOW is
that if you walk around a shopping mall, there are people of all races,
some people speaking other languages, and NOBODY is looking around,
thinking there's something wrong with that. If you go into a store and
buy a drill, or a Nike shirt, or whatever, somebody who was born on the
other side of the world might walk in two minutes later and buy the
exact same thing. That's assimilation!



Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2012 11:32 AM (BeSEI)

_______________________________
Yeah but anyone can buy that drill or shirt anywhere in the world. That's not assimilation. That's just globalization and trade.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 24, 2012 11:38 AM (HDgX3)

60 I'll bet carrier opperation were a bitch in the snow


never thought of that, most of the combat in the pacific was in the tropics 'cept the Alaska stuff



Posted by: Jake in ID at December 24, 2012 11:39 AM (jfSqj)

61 I think the most striking one is the man climbing up the burning hellcat to get the pilot out.I watched a special on discovery/military channel this year about Marines who had volunteered for recon training. They were hammering these young men pretty hard, swimming with weights across a pool, with bdu's on.They were supposed to speak their name, rank, or some hoo-rah shit when they exited the water as a "stress test". This kid, he drowned. He F N drowned. the safety swimmers pulled him to the side, instructors hauled him up by the armpits and among the gouts of water pouring out this guys mouth, eyes rolled back in his head he was still reciting what he was supposed to say. We have people like this on our side. The progs have a bunch of hygenically challenged feet smelling soft spoken metrosexshuls. I think we're going to win. In fact, I think we're going to fry them in their own patchouli oil for breakfast. please let it begin soon before i'm too old to help.

Posted by: Liza Minelli, Woman Beater at December 24, 2012 11:39 AM (OJCL9)

62 The problem has been that Post WWII, its the Military that goes to War, while the people of the US sit in peace...

We tied in Korea... Politicians Lost us Viet Nam... Tied again in Desert Storm leaving the problem to fester... and after 10 years of 'war' in Afgan and Iraq, have not done what needs to be done to win...

There are many Americans, including many in the Political class, which believe that War will not have consequences at home... because we have been able to avoid them for their entire lives.... so are not willing to do what needs to be done to WIN... War is NOT REAL to them....

(had this discussion with someone on here yesterday, who says that the Right is at WAR with the Left, and that we should act like that... sorry... no... we have not started shooting..... yet... if you diminish what War is, and its consequences, you are more likely to start one IMO).

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 24, 2012 11:39 AM (lZBBB)

63 On the photo in the post ... that looks fucking miserable.

There wasn't a truly warm spot on that ship.

God bless 'em.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:41 AM (OZPoa)

64 We all know what JFK said at his inaugural: "ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."

that has been turned on its head- by politicians buying our votes with our money; by politicians telling one group of people that some other group of people is responsible for their problems; by politicians taking money from Americans who work, and giving it to Americans who won't; and by Americans who either reject the values this country was founded on, or are too stupid to even know what those values were.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 24, 2012 11:41 AM (8sCoq)

65 Last minute grocery shopping. This should be fun. Later.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 24, 2012 11:41 AM (3Y7RV)

66 @42 Burt - Thanks for the shot of optimism. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who feels that way.

Thanks to Ace and all the cobs. Merry Christmas everyone! God bless us every one!

Posted by: Miller at December 24, 2012 11:42 AM (KQ+gH)

67 Posted by: Romeo13 at December 24, 2012 11:39 AM (lZBBB)

yeah I've been saying that for a long time. It is a problem that most Americans have no real connection to either the Military of the sacrifices they and their families make. It's a real disconnect

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:42 AM (79ueO)

68 if you diminish what War is, and its consequences, you are more likely to start one IMO).

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 24, 2012 11:39 AM (lZBBB)


Video games. That's all war is to most folks these days. For those of us who have served in one capacity or another, video games are a joke.

Posted by: tcn at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (VLG62)

69 Morons, White Christmas is on today at 13:45 on AMC.

Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (53z96)

70 BurtTC,

Yeah, I didn't mean what I said to be an "all or nothing" type thing. I know it's more complicated that that and Vic's comment on LBJ's "Great Society" is spot on as well. I see the lack of assimilation and the FSA as intertwined as they can be. And that's not to say that there aren't a shitload of whites in the FSA.

The Dems want (and need) people to self-identify in sub groups in order for their coalition of constituency groups to work.

Posted by: Vizzini at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (O7Q1u)

71 51 -

That's the other thing though, people want to point fingers and say this election means everybody wants freebies. Some do, but the reason the election turned out the way it did has more to do with a failure of the Republican brand than it does the sale of the Democrat "free stuff" brand.

We blew it.

We can blame "those people" if we want, but if WE aren't looking at what we did wrong, and are still doing wrong (you have a Speaker who is trying to sell tax increases, and is quibbling over what group of "rich" people will be excluded).

It's time to start looking for solutions. And an obvious first place to start is figuring out how to recreate the 2010 election results.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (BeSEI)

72 >Two silver stars a bronze star and a purple heart. He was a dude.

His Man Card would say: "Member # 000-00-0001"


and he would rate a full Bronson on the Bronson Scale

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (8sCoq)

73 @63 Andy. Sorry man, you're wrong. Head down to the boiler/engine mainspace and you'll learn what hot really is. Just a bit of advice from an old MM2.

Posted by: Liza Minelli, Woman Beater at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (OJCL9)

74 Folks, the cobloggers are unbelievable around here. The amount of work
these guys do on this blog is impressive, and the sense of humor they
display behind the scenes is incredible.


Andy promised you more Brooklyn Decker pics if you were nice, didn't he?

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (JACEX)

75 eeww filthy snipe talk

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 24, 2012 11:44 AM (MPjT8)

76 The baby boomers have really fucked things up. A more worthless and wrong headed generation will not come along again for a long time.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (bb5+k)

77 A former colleague of mine passed away last Thanksgiving. Besides a successful career as an editor, teacher and even local politician, he earned a Silver Star, two Bronze Stars, and four Purple Hearts while in Viet Nam with the 101st.

Rest in Peace, George Barton IV

Just felt like remembering him on this forum, bear with me.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (l3vZN)

78 I'd like to send this out to all the Members of my Unit deployed overseas. The DRs, The Nurses, but especially the Corpsmen.

"'Twas the night before Christmas as I flew o'er the Marine Base,
when I spied a young man who seemed out of place.
His eyes showed compassion, his hair a bit long,
but his head was held high and his body was strong.

His air was confident, his uniform smart,
but what impressed me most was the size of his heart.
For he embodied honor, one of this country's best,
and the words U.S. NAVY showed large on his chest.

As I stood there in wonder and gazed into his eyes,
the words that he spoke took me quite by surprise.
"What's wrong Santa, haven't you ever seen a sailor before?"
I sensed something special and longed to know more.

"To be honest, this field thing wasn't part of my plan,
but God didn't give me a boat or tin can."
The words he spoke next surprised me all the more,
"But I'm as proud of my Navy as I am of the Corps!"

"Don't worry Santa, that I'm a sailor you see,
for when a Marine goes down they will still call on me.
They'll forget I'm a sailor, they'll call in my stock.
At the top of their lungs they'll yell ,"Get me the doc!"

"And I'll answer that call, anytime, anywhere.
Though I know I'm a target I really don't care.
I'll face incoming fire as I race cross the land,
and use my very own body to shield a downed man."

"Working long hours and into the night,
my unit's battle is over, but I'm just starting to fight.
For the life of every Marine is sacred to me.
I refuse to surrender them to death, and in that I'll find victory."

"And yet I'll take the time to comfort a dying man,
to sit down by his side, to reach out and hold his hand.
For it takes as much courage to care as to fight.
For just as the poem says, many don't "go gently into that night."

"Santa, it's not any one uniform that makes you a man,
but rather it's those ideals for which you choose to stand.
I draw my line here, it's long and it's plain.
For pain, hurt and suffering are the things I disdain."

I know very well that I may lose my life,
so that a Marine may see an unmet child and young wife.
So Santa, it really doesn't matter if they don't like my hair.
I'm a Navy Corpsman, their Doc, and I'll always be there."

"I follow the brave docs who have come long before,
from Belleau Wood, Iwo, and Lebanon's shore.
As history proudly shows, they all gave their best,
and for those who have died, surely they're blessed."

"At Inchon, the gulf and times during Tet,
our brothers have fallen, but we carry on yet.
For we carry their honor and legacy still."
As I held back my tears it took all of my will.

I had to leave him there for I had other plans,
but I knew in my heart that the Corps is in good hands.
As I flew away I heard his laughter, it rang so loud and clear.
"Hey Santa, how 'bout a nice pair of boots for the 26 miler next year?"

HMC(FMF/SW) Mark Forsberg
2/3 UDP, Okinawa, December 1997



Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (79ueO)

79 Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:42 AM (79ueO)

But this is a good time to remember those who did sacrifice. No matter what happens to this country, I will always be proud of the men who gave the best years of their lives, and sometimes their lives to keep us free.

We should all be proud. And we should always remember.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (GsoHv)

80 75 eeww filthy snipe talk


Posted by: USS Diversity at December 24, 2012 11:44 AM (MPjT


Wow... someone taught one how to TYPE???

(ET... Ret.... LOL)

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (lZBBB)

81 ""My people came from Italy and Poland and virtually no one on my side
speaks Italian or Polish because my parents, grand parents and great
grand parents refused to teach us these useless languages from the shit
holes they left because they wanted us to become American first.""



Same deal here. My father and his younger sister were born here. His older sister and brother were born in Italy. There are all fluent in italian, but they learned english very young, and even the ones born there have no trace of italian accent at all. They sound like whatever part of the US they live in. My grandmother wanted them to be American....period.

Posted by: Berserker at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (FMbng)

82 @75 I heard that, twidgit. But you repeat yourself. Merry Christmas!

Posted by: Liza Minelli, Woman Beater at December 24, 2012 11:46 AM (OJCL9)

83 Once the US fleet dropped anchor off shore of Guadalcanal, the merchant marines went on strike refusing to unload their ships.

Much of the commiescum that came out of the colleges and universities in the '60s that have lead the Long March through every single institution in this country came from parents of the Great Generation that were also commiescum.

The problems that plague us now existed then too.

Posted by: Grimmy at December 24, 2012 11:46 AM (uUsh9)

84 Just a bit of advice from an old MM2.

Posted by: Liza Minelli, Woman Beater at December 24, 2012 11:43 AM (OJCL9)

LOL, when I got a cold I would go over and sit behind the DFT and bake it out.

Posted by: Old MM1 Vic at December 24, 2012 11:46 AM (53z96)

85 But this is a good time to remember those who did sacrifice. No matter what happens to this country, I will always be proud of the men who gave the best years of their lives, and sometimes their lives to keep us free.

We should all be proud. And we should always remember.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (GsoHv)


Amen

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:46 AM (79ueO)

86
These pictures were "pre-1965". I don't view
this as an "immigrant problem or a race problem". I view it as an LBJ
Great Society program.


During the 40s people believed you
should work for your daily bread and were ashamed to take handouts. LBJ
ushered in the society of free shit and gimme.


That is what is destroying the US.


Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2012 11:28 AM (53z96)

This is the single most significant component of what is destroying the US. Among other things, it has empowered Democrats because they are elected for the purpose of giving out free stuff.

To be fair, it was the 24th amendment which CAUSED LBJ to launch his "War on Poverty". If you read the history, his "Great Society" was created more for the purpose of grabbing the newly created non-taxpaying voters than it was for any other purpose.

The 24th amendment was the knife in our chest which started the bleeding.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 11:49 AM (bb5+k)

87 Deport Morgan Petition. No idea how he spells his faggy first name. But he has 37,000 useless signatures telling him to GTFO. I'd like to expand that deportation request to anyone who speaks a foreign accent sitting inside the US criticizing anything about it. You have the right to remain silent and GTFO.

Posted by: Whatev at December 24, 2012 11:49 AM (2t6Gz)

88 Christmas is pretty much officially under way at the Lincolntf household. Just the two of us, no travel, no guests. Wife is at the salon getting a massage or something, at two PM I pick up our Christmas Eve feast of BBQ brisket, ribs, mac and cheese, hush puppies and banana pudding, Definitely going to exchange at least one gift over the initial meal. I have my fingers crossed for a range of things that I've mentioned over the year. Apropos to this thread, one of those things is a real silk escape map from WW2. I saw one for sale once, didn't buy it, and have regretted it ever since. There are some available (pretty reasonably, but you have to have faith in their "provenance')online, I'm hoping she remembered, found and bought one.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 11:50 AM (tkoGU)

89 ""Deport Morgan Petition. No idea how he spells his faggy first name.""


Me either, but I hope they worked "British twat" into it somewhere.

Posted by: Berserker at December 24, 2012 11:51 AM (FMbng)

90 Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:46 AM (79ueO)

My Son is currently stationed in Guam (US Navy)
Meself, US Navy (Ret)
Father? USN, WWII and Korea
Grandfather? US Army artillery, WW1 France
G.Grandfather, didn't server... no wars...
GGGrandfathers... both sides of the Civil War...
GGGGrandfather didn't serve... no war...
GGGGGranfther.... War of 1812...
Not sure of the generation thing... but had an direct ancestor at Valley Forge...
Annndddd... yep... French and Indian War....

All my Dads side.... Mom says it just prooves you can't keep us out of a good fight.... LOL

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 24, 2012 11:52 AM (lZBBB)

91 Great photo of your dad, Nevergiveup.

*lifts glass*

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:53 AM (OZPoa)

92 >The baby boomers have really fucked things up. A more worthless and
wrong headed generation will not come along again for a long time.

I think this is right. The greatest generation- whether you agree with that name or not- dragged the country out of economic depression, defeated Hitler, defeated japan, then came home and built the peace and prosperity that made America the world's greatest country.

But then the GG gave birth to the Baby Boomers. An entire generation of spoiled brats, it turns out, morally soft and totally selfish, who never knew war or hardship and grew to expect their country to always take care of them. A generation of 2 year olds, banging on their highchairs, demanding more and more, with no effort to be expended on their part.

And Barack Obama is the perfect man for his time.


<rantoff>


I'm going out for pie

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 24, 2012 11:53 AM (8sCoq)

93 But this is a good time to remember those who did sacrifice. No matter what happens to this country, I will always be proud of the men who gave the best years of their lives, and sometimes their lives to keep us free.

We should all be proud. And we should always remember.


Hear, hear.

Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:54 AM (OZPoa)

94 60
I'll bet carrier opperation were a bitch in the snow


never thought of that, most of the combat in the pacific was in the tropics 'cept the Alaska stuff


My guess - taken on the Murmansk Convoy run or the North Atlantic in the winter - escort carriers were used to protect convoys and help with Anti-Submarine Warfare. Planes on deck look to be Hellcat fighters and Dauntless dive bombers.

My grandfather was a Marine during WWII and fought at Tarawa... never said a word to me about it, but was extremely proud of me when I joined the Navy and became a Corpsman

Posted by: Cornholio at December 24, 2012 11:54 AM (Jls4P)

95 Great photo of your dad, Nevergiveup.

*lifts glass*
Posted by: Andy at December 24, 2012 11:53 AM (OZPoa)


Thanks. That's a closeup. If you saw the full pic, you'd seem him lying there in that black volcanic sand

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:54 AM (79ueO)

96 But then the GG gave birth to the Baby Boomers. An
entire generation of spoiled brats, it turns out, morally soft and
totally selfish, who never knew war or hardship and grew to expect their
country to always take care of them. A generation of 2 year olds,
banging on their highchairs, demanding more and more, with no effort to
be expended on their part.

And Barack Obama is the perfect man for his time.




Posted by: Jones in CO at December 24, 2012 11:53 AM (8sCoq)

Hard times make good people. Good times make bad people.





Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 11:54 AM (bb5+k)

97 But then the GG gave birth to the Baby Boomers. An entire generation of
spoiled brats, it turns out, morally soft and totally selfish, who never
knew war or hardship and grew to expect their country to always take
care of them.



I am so sick of hearing that shit. Just who do you think went to "nam to fight the war the GG got us into? FDR and LBJ created this shit sandwich we have now. What frackin generation do you think they were?


I'll just be nice and say you, and all the rest who harp on this "generation thing", are full of shit.

Posted by: Old MM1 Vic at December 24, 2012 11:57 AM (53z96)

98 85
But this is a good time to remember those who did sacrifice. No matter
what happens to this country, I will always be proud of the men who gave
the best years of their lives, and sometimes their lives to keep us
free.



We should all be proud. And we should always remember.



Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM (GsoHv)





Amen

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 11:46 AM (79ueO)
Amen.

Posted by: Grimmy at December 24, 2012 11:57 AM (uUsh9)

99 To those who look askance at Boomers: To be fair, didn't a lot of Baby Boomers fight and die in Vietnam, among other places?

Posted by: Baldy at December 24, 2012 11:57 AM (opS9C)

100 But this is a good time to remember those who did sacrifice. No matter
what happens to this country, I will always be proud of the men who gave
the best years of their lives, and sometimes their lives to keep us
free.



We should all be proud. And we should always remember.



Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 24, 2012 11:45 AM



1000 times this.

Posted by: Berserker at December 24, 2012 11:57 AM (FMbng)

101 Bless 'em all , past present and future ..

And a very Merry Christmas to all you window lickin' rons and ettes .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:00 PM (USjX1)

102 I want to expand on my comments regarding the 24th amendment.


It is my understanding that throughout history, the greatest threat to a nation has always been financial insolvency. Debasement of currency is a symptom of this, and inflation is the modern day equivalent.



Financial insolvency has always plagued Democracies because a large chunk of humanity simply doesn't understand economics and never will. It is when these people are permitted to have a say in governance that the fuse is lit for the inevitable financial time bomb that invariably destroys Democracies. It was this phenomena that destroyed the Original Greek Democracy after only 55 years.



It is therefore (in my opinion) that a tenant of a functional society is that only those who pay for the government should have a say in how that government is constituted. This creates a "negative feedback system" whereby stability is achieved.



The 24th amendment (not the whole thing, just the last three words) was the biggest mistake this nation ever made, and it is because people let their emotions lead them instead of their minds.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:01 PM (bb5+k)

103 Thanks for the pic of your pa , nevergiveup !!

Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:02 PM (USjX1)

104
Finished Christmas shopping. Yaaaay!

I got home and my neighbor has finally taken down his Obama 2012 yard sign. I may have to let him live, which sucks, because I really covet his pickup. I really wanted to go full Kurgan on him.

Now, what am I gonna do with that pack of wolves I ordered?

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 12:03 PM (OQpzc)

105 I am so sick of hearing that shit. Just who do you
think went to "nam to fight the war the GG got us into? FDR and LBJ
created this shit sandwich we have now. What frackin generation do you
think they were?



Posted by: Old MM1 Vic at December 24, 2012 11:57 AM (53z96)


Those were the good ones. It is the shit-stains which remained behind (and their women) to which we are referring.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:04 PM (bb5+k)

106 Thanks for the pic of your pa , nevergiveup !!
Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:02 PM (USjX1)


Thanks. I'm just sorry he never got see me in Uniform. He would have enjoyed that.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:05 PM (79ueO)

107 LBJ created the "Free Shit Class" that elected Choomer to office... and has at least two generations of children that have continued to ask "Where's my Skittle-shitting unicorn and other free shit".

The libs reinvented slavery - it's called "The Great Society" and as long as it is alive and well, there will be a class of freeloaders that will vote for their free shit. And this "free shit" class covers every color, race and creed across the spectrum (I live in an area that has a heavy Russian/Ukrainian minority and they love the free shit that the feds, state and local government gives them)

Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at December 24, 2012 12:06 PM (Jls4P)

108 We need to clean house on the current Rules of Engagement Types from the Service... Until then we are just feeding the KIng..Afghanistan..we should have put the boot up the as and stomped those fuckers into a Jello Mold...same for the Pakistanis who hid BL near their West Point...

Posted by: Clemenza at December 24, 2012 12:06 PM (ILM+d)

109 (click to embiggen)



Just a suggestion, but can you change that to read (Enhance and Zoomify) please?

Posted by: © Sponge at December 24, 2012 12:07 PM (UK9cE)

110 Financial insolvency has always plagued Democracies because a large
chunk of humanity simply doesn't understand economics and never will. It
is when these people are permitted to have a say in governance that the
fuse is lit for the inevitable financial time bomb that invariably
destroys Democracies.


I was musing about this today. Some of my I-Ls are in this category (my wife is a genetic anomaly). These are people who are apparently incapable of projective thinking, or are at least incapable of the discipline to resist temptation.

This is not new. They have always been with us. It's just that in the old days, there was no inclination to spare them of the consequences of their folly. In addition, an increasingly complex society makes it harder for them to navigate everyday life. These are the people who watch and believe Oprah, and buy stuff on HSN, thinking it really does what is claimed. They are always at the mercy of the sharks.

Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 12:07 PM (6TB1Z)

111 On page 3 of that collection there is a pic of B-29's on Tinian getting ready for takeoff. Someplace is about to get fucked up very badly. And they earned it, by starting a war that interrupted a peaceful world. Likewise, it is left to us to fight against the forces of today who wish for nothing more than the destruction of Constitutional America. I asked my dad once how it is that all those country boys went out at the age of 20 and 21 and conquered the finest militaries in the world. He told me that "when something needs to be done you just do what it takes to do it." He didn't believe in any "greatest generation". And his belief that what he and his peers did I and mine could do stuck with me all my life. So when i hear people whining here that there is no hope and all is lost and that they're withdrawing from the fight all I can say is a hearty "FUCK YOU" and get out of my way. My life is no more sacred in the fight for liberty and America than the lives of all those sacrificed in WWII. I won't dishonor the sacrifices of all those brave men, men once with futures and lives and wives and mothers and families, by withdrawing from the fight we currently find ourselves in and tried to avoid. Time to kick ass again. My father was on Tinian when the war ended because in the 6 weeks they were on Okinawa they had lost 1/3 of their men and planes. They were his friends. Why do we ask so much less of ourselves?

Posted by: DAve at December 24, 2012 12:07 PM (XDC0v)

112 Re all the heroes mentioned above, I think that's a main reason why the 63 mentions of 'me' in the recent speech by Obama. He gave almost no detail about the Senator Inouye's heroism, just mentioned more recent accomplishments. I think he knows, deep down, that he can never, *never* be a real man. How can someone like him relate to a man who takes a grenade, from his own amputated arm, and throws it at the enemy? He hates Americans, sure, but most of all he hates men.


Posted by: Pentangle at December 24, 2012 12:08 PM (cZlJf)

113 Test, I haven't commented in awhile. Just been lurking. Love the WWII photos.

Posted by: Unclezeb at December 24, 2012 12:09 PM (xoxnc)

114 I'm sorry he missed that too , nevergiveup .
It won't mean near as much but we morons are proud of you .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:10 PM (USjX1)

115 How can someone like him relate to a man who takes a grenade, from his own amputated arm, and throws it at the enemy?

pfffft. I'd have thrown the arm too.

Posted by: BHO, all around badass at December 24, 2012 12:10 PM (6TB1Z)

116 The carrier with teh snow on the deck - likely an escort carrier in the Atlantic. Maybe Ranger, she stayed in the Atlantic during the war.

Aircraft are Wildcats, Dauntlesses, and Avengers.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at December 24, 2012 12:11 PM (gmoEG)

117 Except for that whole minority and women bugaboo, I mean white guys, except the queers, sure had it great back then. It's kind of like those Renaissance Faires participants, matter of fact any re-enactment types, the have a totally unrealistic view of what the times were like. But people need to think that at some point there was a real Golden age when life was good for and mana rained from heaven.
Posted by: Mike Hunt at December 24, 2012 11:11 AM (G6kli)


It's always nice when the trolls self-identify. Takes the work out of wondering if they have anything other than a massive echo chamber between the ears.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 24, 2012 12:13 PM (zF6Iw)

118
This is not new. They have always been with us.
It's just that in the old days, there was no inclination to spare them
of the consequences of their folly. In addition, an increasingly complex
society makes it harder for them to navigate everyday life. These are
the people who watch and believe Oprah, and buy stuff on HSN, thinking
it really does what is claimed. They are always at the mercy of the
sharks.


Posted by: pep at December 24, 2012 12:07 PM (6TB1Z)

No, it is not new. It is an ever present condition with humanity. For most of this nation's existence, these people were automatically excluded from voting because they seldom achieved the necessary wherewithal to pay taxes, and so their foolishness was mostly excluded from government. Now the dynamics have changed where every idiot past the age of 18 can vote for promises of free stuff. (Which they do.)

We are done. The freebie seekers will have to die in the coming financial meltdown, and the survivors will have to reconstitute a government which does not allow for the opinions of non-contributors to influence it.
Hard times are a-commin my friends.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:14 PM (bb5+k)

119 The libs reinvented slavery - it's called "The Great
Society" and as long as it is alive and well, there will be a class of
freeloaders that will vote for their free shit. And this "free shit"
class covers every color, race and creed across the spectrum (I live in
an area that has a heavy Russian/Ukrainian minority and they love the
free shit that the feds, state and local government gives them)


Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at December 24, 2012 12:06 PM (Jls4P)

________________
This is true. There are members of the FSA from all races. But on a macro level, certain races - I'll let you guess which ones - are heavily over represented as a % of the FSA compared to their % of the population at large. While other races - again I'll let you guess which ones - are highly UNDER represented based on their % of the population at large.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 24, 2012 12:15 PM (HDgX3)

120 My people came from Italy and Poland and virtually no one on my side speaks Italian or Polish because my parents, grand parents and great grand parents refused to teach us these useless languages from the shit holes they left because they wanted us to become American first.

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 24, 2012 11:21 AM (zOP5o)


Same here. In fact, Grandpa went so far as to legally change Dads' and his brothers last name from the heavily Polish original to an Americanized Irish. Polish, though he was quite fluent, was never spoken conversationally. He didn't even want to teach me any words.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 24, 2012 12:16 PM (Z7Bua)

121 I won't dishonor the sacrifices of all those brave men, men once with futures and lives and wives and mothers and families, by withdrawing from the fight we currently find ourselves in and tried to avoid. Time to kick ass again. My father was on Tinian when the war ended because in the 6 weeks they were on Okinawa they had lost 1/3 of their men and planes. They were his friends. Why do we ask so much less of ourselves?
Posted by: DAve at December 24, 2012 12:07 PM (XDC0v)

Because all to many Americans don't understand that we either pay the price now, what ever that price, or pay a much steeper price later.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:16 PM (79ueO)

122 pfffft. I'd have thrown the arm too.
Posted by: BHO, all around badass at December 24, 2012 12:10 PM (6TB1Z)A real man would have charged the enemy and beaten them to death with the arm.

Posted by: Invictus at December 24, 2012 12:17 PM (OQpzc)

123 When I was a kid, we had a big book of WWII photos that Collier's had published right after the war ended. I spent hours and hours flipping through that book staring at those pictures in wonder.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at December 24, 2012 12:18 PM (ky8o3)

124 I won't dishonor the sacrifices of all those brave men, men once with futures and lives and wives and mothers and families, by withdrawing from the fight we currently find ourselves in and tried to avoid. Time to kick ass again. My father was on Tinian when the war ended because in the 6 weeks they were on Okinawa they had lost 1/3 of their men and planes. They were his friends. Why do we ask so much less of ourselves?
Posted by: DAve at December 24, 2012 12:07 PM (XDC0v)

Because all to many Americans don't understand that we either pay the price now, what ever that price, or pay a much steeper price later.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:16 PM (79ueO)


As Winston Churchill said:

"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

And most Americans don't get that or don't care.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:19 PM (79ueO)

125 I asked my dad once how it is that all those country
boys went out at the age of 20 and 21 and conquered the finest
militaries in the world. He told me that "when something needs to be
done you just do what it takes to do it."

Posted by: DAve at December 24, 2012 12:07 PM (XDC0v)


I hate to be a prick, but it often seems to be my lot in life. I have this bad habit of blurting out the ugly truth when it is really not welcome. We Americans have always made a good story about how we won World War II, and I fully believed this for a large chunk of my life. I later discovered the truth was not so complimentary.

The ugly truth is that the bulk of the War was won by the Russians. They did most of the fighting and the dying, and had they not done so it is quite likely that the axis powers would have won the whole thing.

By pointing out this reality, it is not my intention to sully the sacrifice of our Soldiers. They truly were the greatest generation that this nation has ever known..


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:23 PM (bb5+k)

126 A really good book on the perspective of the in the trenches soldier in WWII is Bill Maldin's "Up Front." He was a cartoonist for Stars and Stripes who did not care much for Army leadership and describes the struggles in Italy and Germany faced by the average soldier.
He was loved by the troops because his cartoons captured their plight. In one story he tells of receiving a Purple Heart from a medic. Seems he got a piece of egg shell in his eye during breakfast. The medic wrote "Shell fragment in eye" on the medical report, hence the Purple Heart. He appreciated the medic's kind thoughts, but always felt bad because the real heroes were the ones who had suffered real wounds to get their Purple Heart.

Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 24, 2012 12:26 PM (YYyqq)

127 Re all the heroes mentioned above, I think that's a main reason why the 63 mentions of 'me' in the recent speech by Obama. He gave almost no detail about the Senator Inouye's heroism, just mentioned more recent accomplishments. I think he knows, deep down, that he can never, *never* be a real man. How can someone like him relate to a man who takes a grenade, from his own amputated arm, and throws it at the enemy? He hates Americans, sure, but most of all he hates men.

I didn't check - were any of Inouye's family on stage when King Putt went into his reminiscences? Because it would have taken the whole SS detachment to keep me from yanking the mic away from him and yelling "this is a memorial for my (father, grandfather, whatever), you dog-eating retard, not a time for you to talk aboutthe time awater fountain amazed your choom-smoking ass. GTFO and FOAD, you SCOAMF!"

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 24, 2012 12:26 PM (zF6Iw)

128 Perhaps it is overly romanticizing the times,

Well, if that's the case, then I am guilty, too.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 24, 2012 12:26 PM (Z7Bua)

129 Here is the left's latest attemp to justify gun control.

The Real Rationale for the 2nd Amendment, That Right-Wingers Are Totally Ignorant About
By Robert Parry

Posted by: Hard Right at December 24, 2012 12:27 PM (uhftQ)

130 I hate to be a prick, but it often seems to be my lot in life. I have this bad habit of blurting out the ugly truth when it is really not welcome. We Americans have always made a good story about how we won World War II, and I fully believed this for a large chunk of my life. I later discovered the truth was not so complimentary.

The ugly truth is that the bulk of the War was won by the Russians. They did most of the fighting and the dying, and had they not done so it is quite likely that the axis powers would have won the whole thing.

By pointing out this reality, it is not my intention to sully the sacrifice of our Soldiers. They truly were the greatest generation that this nation has ever known..


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:23 PM (bb5+k)


Yes the Russians made great sacrifices , but they also were partially responsible for putting themselves in that position. They freely broke bread with Hitler and by allowing him to move that much closer to the Soviet borders by carving up Poland and putting the Hun that much close to Moscow. The what ifs of History are fascinating to contemplate. But acknowledging the contributions of the Soviets does not take away from the great bravery and sacrifices of the American Military in WW2. And I did not notice to much Soviet sacrifice in the Pacific, other than stealing the B-29.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:28 PM (79ueO)

131 The ugly truth is that the bulk of the War was won by the Russians. They did most of the fighting and the dying, and had they not done so it is quite likely that the axis powers would have won the whole thing.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:23 PM (bb5+k)


Well yeah

why do you think we waited til 44'


Posted by: D Eisenhower at December 24, 2012 12:29 PM (jfSqj)

132 123 When I was a kid, we had a big book of WWII photos that Collier's had published right after the war ended. I spent hours and hours flipping through that book staring at those pictures in wonder.
Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at December 24, 2012 12:18 PM (ky8o3)


I devoured everything WWII, as a kid (60's-70's).

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 24, 2012 12:31 PM (Z7Bua)

133 Diogenes that may have been somewhat true in the European theatre but the commies did sweet fuck all in the pacific . Something the "historians" seldom mention . I'm sure the fact that most "historians" loved them some uncle Joe is irrelevant .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:31 PM (USjX1)

134 Recently reada decent (not great, but worth reading) book about an escape from a Russian work camp in 1941. The Long Walk by Slawomir Ravich, a Polish lieutenant. There's also an American, a Latvian and a couple Russians in the group. Brutal shit, and very interesting, but not written with the skill/depth of the old Russian gulag classics.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 24, 2012 12:33 PM (tkoGU)

135 Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:28 PM (79ueO)



Oh yes, the Russians deserved to suffer the brunt of the war, but even so, they had 20+ million dead, to our 1/2 million.



While we are talking about the what if's of History, whoda thunk that the excesses of the Treaty of Versailles could have led to the horrors of World War II?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:33 PM (bb5+k)

136 whoda thunk that the excesses of the Treaty of Versailles could have led to the horrors of World War II?



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:33 PM (bb5+k)

Actually that was probably entireably predictable. At least in retrospect. And much of the Soviet loses were civilians and poorly lead troops at least in the beginning of the War and their combat tactics in the later years of the War. I am not discounting either Soviet loses or their ultimate bravery, but their loses can not be compared to ours for a whole host of reasons.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:37 PM (79ueO)

137
Well yeah



why do you think we waited til 44'







Posted by: D Eisenhower at December 24, 2012 12:29 PM (jfSqj)


It worked out well for us, but it could have turned out very badly. I have long said that if Hitler had not had the Italians for his allies, he would have won the war. It is a stoke of luck that the Italians invaded Greece, all to get their asses kicked, and thereby requiring Hitler to detach a division from the Russian invasion to go help out his allies, thereby loosing the Russian front.


An extra division at Stalingrad would have won the war for him. We were lucky. As Otto Von Bismark said: "God looks after fools, little children, and the United States."




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:37 PM (bb5+k)

138 It worked out well for us, but it could have turned out very badly. I have long said that if Hitler had not had the Italians for his allies, he would have won the war. It is a stoke of luck that the Italians invaded Greece, all to get their asses kicked, and thereby requiring Hitler to detach a division from the Russian invasion to go help out his allies, thereby loosing the Russian front.


An extra division at Stalingrad would have won the war for him. We were lucky. As Otto Von Bismark said: "God looks after fools, little children, and the United States."




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:37 PM (bb5+k)


Ultimately Germany did not have either the resources or the population to fight the combined might of the US/Britain and Russia at the same time

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:40 PM (79ueO)

139 Diogenes that may have been somewhat true in the
European theatre but the commies did sweet fuck all in the pacific .
Something the "historians" seldom mention . I'm sure the fact that most
"historians" loved them some uncle Joe is irrelevant .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 24, 2012 12:31 PM (USjX1)

True indeed, the United States Won the war in the Pacific mostly by ourselves. (The Chinese and the Australians Helped though.) Even so, the European war was far worse. This is why we devoted the bulk of our resources to that fight instead of the war in the Pacific.






Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:41 PM (bb5+k)

140 While we are talking about the what if's of History, whoda thunk that the excesses of the Treaty of Versailles could have led to the horrors of World War II?
Posted by: DiogenesLamp
--------------------------------

Anyone with a brain

Posted by: Hard Right at December 24, 2012 12:42 PM (uhftQ)

141 And I did not notice to much Soviet sacrifice in the Pacific, other than stealing the B-29.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:28 PM (79ueO)


*ding* *ding* *ding*

Anyone who assigns secondary or sideshow status to the Pacific is fucking retarded or dishonest.

..and it was every bit as brutal and no quarter as anything on the Eastern European front. It's one thing to be either too stupid or unwilling to use flanking maneuvers. It's quite another, when those flanks are nothing, but seawater.

The effort to build, and basically invent, the necessary logistics train to fight across the Pacific, is nothing short of mind boggling.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 24, 2012 12:42 PM (Z7Bua)

142 Actually that was probably entireably predictable.
At least in retrospect. And much of the Soviet loses were civilians and
poorly lead troops at least in the beginning of the War and their combat
tactics in the later years of the War. I am not discounting either
Soviet loses or their ultimate bravery, but their loses can not be
compared to ours for a whole host of reasons.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:37 PM (79ueO)

I'm sure that there was bravery on the part of Russians, but there was also a lot of forced bravery from giving them the choice between Possible German bullets and Certain Russian bullets.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:43 PM (bb5+k)

143
Ultimately Germany did not have either the
resources or the population to fight the combined might of the
US/Britain and Russia at the same time

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:40 PM (79ueO)


That, and they made some bad decisions and had some bad luck. Had a few things worked out differently, they would have kicked all of our asses.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:44 PM (bb5+k)

144 Anyone with a brain

Posted by: Hard Right at December 24, 2012 12:42 PM (uhftQ)

In hindsight. Apparently not prior to the fact. Of course it WAS Wilson we are talking about, and we can see just how well his OTHER ideas have worked out.

See what happens when you get an "intellectual genius" for a President?






Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:46 PM (bb5+k)

145 I'm sure that there was bravery on the part of Russians, but there was also a lot of forced bravery from giving them the choice between Possible German bullets and Certain Russian bullets.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:43 PM (bb5+k)

Well that's my point, Soviet Infantry strategy never, and still doesn't to this day, worry to much about human life. The Russians greatest natural assets used to be the number of people they have.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:47 PM (79ueO)

146 It's not that the percentage of whites has fallen that's the problem. It's that when those pictures were taken the non-whites were 100% assimilated (ok, that's an exaggeration, but you get my meaning) into the melting pot of American society. Today, there is very little assimilation of the groups that make up the 28%.

That's the problem.
Posted by: Vizzini at December 24, 2012 11:12

Exaggeration? Let's not forget that black servicemen were totally separated form other servicemen in the WWII era.

Here's the thing: many of us have a tendency to romanticize the past or, conversely, think of it as some dark age during which the darker races were totally subjugated. It was neither. There was indeed segregation, but their were some very poor white people and some no-so-poor blacks--the American side of my family are examples of the latter.

The things which the eras prior to the 60s had over the time period afterward is a huge thing, however. That thing is the public acknowledgement of God. After that ceased, all bets were off and, as a result, all the openness, integration etc. has come to mean nothing.

I've said this before. My stepdad, 70 years old, Vietnam era vet, pastor, says that his generation of black Americans failed its progeny when it failed to pass on Christianity and its values. I submit that all of America failed its progeny in this manner.

It's time to step back up. Merry Christmas.

Posted by: baldilocks via iPad at December 24, 2012 12:48 PM (Su0W2)

147 That, and they made some bad decisions and had some bad luck. Had a few things worked out differently, they would have kicked all of our asses.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:44 PM (bb5+k)

Nah, would the War have lasted longer and cost more, sure, but I don't think the Nazis ever would have defeated us. And your forgetting we got the bomb first.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:49 PM (79ueO)

148 Moron 'Nevergiveup' sends this photo of his dad:

wow thats a very famous photo

Posted by: kj at December 24, 2012 12:50 PM (KpDjl)

149 Moron 'Nevergiveup' sends this photo of his dad:

wow thats a very famous photo
Posted by: kj at December 24, 2012 12:50 PM (KpDjl)

Well it is in my house

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:50 PM (79ueO)

150 That, and they made some bad decisions and had some bad luck. Had a few things worked out differently, they would could have kicked all of our asses.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp
------------------------

Posted by: Hard Right at December 24, 2012 12:55 PM (uhftQ)

151 I'm sure that there was bravery on the part of Russians, but there was also a lot of forced bravery from giving them the choice between Possible German bullets and Certain Russian bullets.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:43 PM (bb5+k)


That is a very glossed over/intentionally overlooked/deliberately lied about item. The brave, exuberant Soviet waves prodded on by KGB Barrage Battalions at the point of a PPsh. A great many of those T-34 tank riders were political prisoners, criminals and otherwise undesirables. One of my HS history teachers (70's) was a Russian emigre, who fought on the Eastern Front. I dare say that today, he would never have been hired in the first pace.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 24, 2012 12:55 PM (Z7Bua)

152 That, and they made some bad decisions and had some bad luck. Had a few things worked out differently, they wouldcouldhave kicked all of our asses.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp
-------------------------------

FIFY

Posted by: Hard Right at December 24, 2012 12:56 PM (uhftQ)

153 Nah, would the War have lasted longer and cost more,
sure, but I don't think the Nazis ever would have defeated us. And your
forgetting we got the bomb first.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 12:49 PM (79ueO)

That MIGHT have made the difference, but had things turned out differently, they may have wrapped up the European war before we could have brought the bomb to bear. Even so, till the 1950s, we really didn't have very many of the things. Might not have made that much of an impact.

Interesting to speculate on of course. New thread up, i'm migrating there.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 24, 2012 12:57 PM (bb5+k)

154 This posting system sucks

Posted by: Hard Right at December 24, 2012 12:57 PM (uhftQ)

155
@nevergiveup

i 've seen it quite a bit, it was a still taken from film footage wasn't it?

Posted by: kj at December 24, 2012 01:04 PM (KpDjl)

156 140
While we are talking about the what if's of History, whoda thunk that
the excesses of the Treaty of Versailles could have led to the horrors
of World War II?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp

--------------------------------



Anyone with a brain

Posted by: Hard Right at December 24, 2012 12:42 PM (uhftQ)

The Versailles thing as the excuse for war was half German propaganda and half excuse making for the enemy which was as common among our intelligentsia then as it is now.It was the fact that the German army was allowed to leave the field intact that led to the belief that if the Germans had held out just a little longer, fought just a little bit harder, if the homefront had just been a little bit steadier that was the primary motivation for WW1 part 2.

Posted by: Grimmy at December 24, 2012 01:33 PM (uUsh9)

157 90 You obviously owe some layabouts reparations

Posted by: DAve at December 24, 2012 01:35 PM (XDC0v)

158
@ grimmy

The German Army felt it was far from defeated they felt betrayed andblamed the subversive communist movement at home for undermining support for the war.which lead to the bitter fighting along the eastern front during WWII

Posted by: kj at December 24, 2012 01:48 PM (KpDjl)

159
An 88 year oldfriend of mine lies near death now. But he survived a lot of stuff. He was just 18 in early 1942 when he enlisted in the USMC and was trained as a paratrooper! Who knew that the Marines needed paratroops? By July of 1942, the Marines had gotten over that nonsense, and Larry was back to being a Marine grunt. He got his first 'high school graduation trip", courtesy of the USMC to Guadalcanal--got there in November 42. Then as a bonus he got a free boat ride to the coral reefson Tarawa and to the beaches ofIwo Jima. After WW II somebody persuaded him that he should stay in a USMC reserve unit in Southern California--which he did. The Corps decided he needed a winter vacastion--so Larry was at Chosin Reservoir in Korea.

Did he ever talk about this? No--never. He mentioned the places to his wife like a travel itinerary--but he never talked about what he saw, or what he did as a Marine rifleman. He came back from Korea, returned to work in the same industry he'd been in during the period between WWII and Korea--married and raised a family. The war(s) were just part of life and not to be talked about. You survived, you came home and you got on with living the rest of your life.

Posted by: Comanche Voter at December 24, 2012 02:02 PM (oe1aw)

160 i 've seen it quite a bit, it was a still taken from film footage wasn't it?
Posted by: kj at December 24, 2012 01:04 PM (KpDjl)

Yes

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 24, 2012 02:11 PM (jE38p)

161 "And you're forgetting we got the bomb first."

You're welcome.

Posted by: Edith Keeler's Ghost at December 24, 2012 04:48 PM (scOyJ)

162 Very cool share!

Only thing my dad ever said was "in battle you had no time to be scared" and "I saw a whole lot of dead jap women and children floating in the water off saipan"

About the only thing he ever said about it.

Posted by: paul at December 24, 2012 05:15 PM (z6nwP)

163 Thanks for that pic of yer old man storming the gates of hell. A truly great man in the company of giants.

Posted by: TrueNorthist at December 24, 2012 05:59 PM (3Aixx)

164 @vizzini: was the artist Tom Lea and the General Joe "lightning" Collins?

(I asking this before I get the book)

G-d Bless your family and you this Christmas. And, of course, Ace himself.

Posted by: Occam's Tool at December 24, 2012 06:02 PM (OcQfO)

165 A couple of notes: there would have been no WWII if Stalin hadn't signed the non-aggression pact. The Russkies created the war. Further, they then murdered thousands of Polish officers.

@vizzini: I think we're talking General Krueger, since this was Luzon, and "Lightning Joe" had gone on to more deserved fame.

Our boys went to war with no thoughts of territorial gain. And we gained nothing significant in territory as a result. The Russians, on the other hand, looted and raped their way Westward. They suffered greatly, yes, but they did theoir best to make others suffer. And don't give me the crap about us dropping the A-bomb, because dropping that bomb saved American AND Japanese lives. The Japanese were beat, and they fought on insanely just to kill people.

Posted by: Occam's Tool at December 24, 2012 06:10 PM (OcQfO)

166 About them Russians and their "winning the war".

The Ruskies could have had tanks *or* trucks. Not both in enough numbers to matter.

The US supplied over 80% of the Ruskies trucks. Trucks that hauled fuel, food, ammo, replacements, troops, spare parts, etc so on and so forth.

Without the US trucks, the Ruskies couldn't have advanced anywhere any faster than they could walk. Any tanks they'd have would be those put into neutral gear and dragged by either human slaves or horses/mules.

The Ruskies suffered the casualties they did because Stalin was only slightly more competent than that total incompetent named Hitler.

There is actually some reason to believe that the Germans made it as far as they could have made it even if there was no Rusky oppo. The Germans were just about as bright as a box of very very dull rocks when it came to long term logistics needs.

Other things that the US provided the "war winning Russians":
Nearly all their medical supplies;
A significant portion of their bulk fuels;
Most of the plate armor that got made into tanks;
A good portion of their small arms ammo.

Russia had resources. Russia had manufacturing. What Russia didn't have was infrastructure to get the resources to the manufacturing.

Posted by: Grimmy at December 24, 2012 08:01 PM (uUsh9)






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