What Is Your Share of the National Debt? [fluffy]

Short answer:

I don't know. You are [fucked|screwed|pooched].

I Don't Know

Why bother reading further when the author seemingly doesn't know the exact figure?

One problem is that the number is a moving target. Can you guess which direction the number is going?

Taking a look

This has to be a relatively simple exercise in arithmetic. One could divide a 14 digit number by a 9 digit number by hand, but I'll do it with a calculator, thank you.

Stopping by at http://www.usdebtclock.org I get the current debt figure of $16,395,173,356,211.

Divide that by 314,982,978 people in the US and I get $52,050.98 per man, woman and child. Got a spare $52K, Bunky?

That figure, however, is wrong. It includes the all Americans, the majority of whom are non-taxpayers. It includes my retired parents and in-laws, who are contributing very little to the national treasury at this point of their lives. Let's run the numbers again.

Take the current national debt, now at $16,395,177,588,347, divide by a US workforce of 143,963,180 and we get $113,884.52 per taxpayer. You have a job, right? Sorry if you don't. At this point, I would still rather be pulling the wagon than riding it.

So we have this nice ballpark figure of $114K, but it still isn't correct. No matter how average a person may be, they are still (an) individual(s). Are you washing dishes 32 hours per week? Your share is going to be lower. Are you a fund manager or an investment banker? Your share will be higher. People with more income pay more income tax. But we knew that.

There is No "Share"

Do you have a mortgage? My wife and I have a mortgage. It involves a significant amount of debt, but it also involves a plan. We send a check every month and at a particular date in the future, we will owe no more. I know that date.

With the feds, there is no plan. You could ask around Washington, D.C. and find quite a few people who won't even ackowledge that something needs to be done. (Fire them. They make way more money than you, should know better, and some cause America problems). That is why in a few minutes between calculation, our debt went up by more than $2million.

Our debt is 105.6% of our GDP. If everything we earned for 1 year and 19 days went directly to paying off debt, we would be in the clear. In the meantime, you would be kicked out of your house for not paying property taxes, in legal trouble from not paying state of federal income taxes, and looking kind of thin from subsisting on moss soup and acorns. Clearly, this will not be fixed in a year. Or two, or five.

My mortgage? It is more than 105% of my household income, but it's a fixed obligation and we have an amortization date. No such luck with the feds. Unless it is dealt with, the problem will get kicked down the road until the road gets washed into the sea.

"Average"

Are you average? I'm not. I'm an individual, as are you. If you make lots of money, you will pay lots of taxes. If you are young, you will be paying taxes for many years. Great, isn't it? You are paying interest on a debt that has little to do with you. You are paying Social Security for your grandparent's generation. You are being convinced that it's no big deal.

Have you ever had a credit card problem? That is what we are working up to on a national scale. That leads to a whole lot of 'doing without.' Ask Greece about that.

Posted by: Guest Blogger at 01:51 PM



Comments

1 I know after The Burn, my share will be $0.00.

Posted by: EC at December 23, 2012 01:55 PM (doBIb)

2 Merry Christmas?

Posted by: JeanQueenie at December 23, 2012 01:56 PM (Gmp2Z)

3 Our mortgage is finally down to just about 100% of annual income. Wheee....

Posted by: JeanQueenie at December 23, 2012 01:59 PM (Gmp2Z)

4 I know what I am, fucked.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 23, 2012 02:00 PM (Zd/NW)

5
Math - ugh
On another note, Deport Piers Morgan campaign gaining steam:
http://tinyurl.com/bwgdg29

Posted by: Panther at December 23, 2012 02:00 PM (wrcD1)

6 Don't worry everyone.... The rich are going to pay their fair share soon. That will solve all of our problems, Obama said so.

Posted by: Matt at December 23, 2012 02:00 PM (x0/jv)

7 Now look where all my personal fiscal responsibility has gotten me. No where.

It's a wonder Americans aren't any worse at managing their money than they already are. Look at the fine example Uncle Sam sets for us.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 23, 2012 02:01 PM (4Mv1T)

8 I know after The Burn, my share will be $0.00.

Posted by: EC at December 23, 2012 01:55 PM (doBIb)

Or, if the federal government manages to survive, the hyper-inflation will make that share about $5.2x10^8

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 23, 2012 02:01 PM (GsoHv)

9
I know what I am, fucked.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 23, 2012 02:00 PM (Zd/NW)

With my dick!

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at December 23, 2012 02:02 PM (GsoHv)

10 You racist, why do you hate women? And why do you want children to be gunned down in cold blood by Wayne LaPierre?

Posted by: Steve Skubinna at December 23, 2012 02:05 PM (HoGA+)

11 Without looking up the exact number, I think the median income is around $40K, so that means the median worker would have to work 3 years to pay off their share.

But when you add in SS and Medicare, it's about 5 times as much in terms of unfunded liabilities, so that means you have to work another 15 years at the median income to pay off your share.

In these terms, that's about 40% (18 years in a ~45 year working life) of your total labor which goes to the Federal government, to be spent at the discretion of people other than you.

Posted by: BS Inc. at December 23, 2012 02:05 PM (eP0u9)

12 Hard to know how to invest your money when it could easily become worthless. Well it already is actually, but we're just pretending it's not.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 23, 2012 02:07 PM (4Mv1T)

13 This is one of my pet peeves. You should not be using the "official" numbers. Use the real number: $86.8 trillion and rising.

http://goo.gl/JPizz

Posted by: wte9 at December 23, 2012 02:07 PM (6Tcdo)

14 With my dick!




Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama


There just ain't enough whiskey......

Posted by: JeanQueenie at December 23, 2012 02:07 PM (Gmp2Z)

15 I have been paying more than "my share" for well over 40 years. Piss on those bastards in DC, I don't owe them a damn thing.

Posted by: Vic at December 23, 2012 02:08 PM (53z96)

16 I am now widening my perspective.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 23, 2012 02:09 PM (4Mv1T)

17 They said there'd be no math...I hate math; that's why I loves me some more Gubmint!!!

Posted by: Low Information Voter at December 23, 2012 02:12 PM (6DDE+)

18 I have been paying more than "my share" for well over 40 years. Piss on those bastards in DC, I don't owe them a damn thing.
Posted by: Vic at December 23, 2012 02:08 PM (53z96)---- This!

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 23, 2012 02:13 PM (R8hU8)

19
With my dick!




Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at December 23, 2012 02:02 PM (GsoHv)

And you went in dry.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 23, 2012 02:13 PM (Zd/NW)

20 The only thing I liked about the movie "Titanic" is when the ship architect says to the girl: "I'm sorry that I didn't build you a stronger ship". I feel that way about the country my kids will inherit.

Posted by: pep at December 23, 2012 02:13 PM (6TB1Z)

21 Excellent wrap-up, fluffy.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 23, 2012 02:14 PM (I2LwF)

22 And don't forget all public corporations list "accounts Payable" long term and short term liabilities. As a country, we have some huge number of unpaid liabilities. I'm not sure the exact number but from what I have read in the past it is on the order of 100 Trillion. Since this is not actual debt, the media and politicians ignore it. Even though it is still "owed" in the form of Social Security, Medicare and other govt cheese type programs.

Posted by: John Stark Dark at December 23, 2012 02:14 PM (0JB89)

23 Oh the pain!!!...the pain of it all!!!...William my boy, come quickly...we need to escape this place for another form of terra firma!!!

Posted by: Dr. Zachary Smith at December 23, 2012 02:15 PM (6DDE+)

24 Was talking to a lib friend yesterday. I told him he was sucking off the government tit. Got pissy as I knew he would. (I do it on purpose.) He's been collecting SS for almost 20 years, as long as I've know him. Of course, the obot says he paid into it. Told him it was a ponzy scheme and he's taken more than he ever paid in.

The stupidity is just jaw dropping.

Posted by: Infidel at December 23, 2012 02:15 PM (k/0m2)

25 I was told there would be no math on this blog.

As for the debt, if Uncle Sam is gonna dork me up the squeekhole, the least they could do is buy me a nice candlelit dinner first. Hell, I'd settle for a reach around.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM (c2oll)

26 Fuck 'em, I ain't paying!

Posted by: Killerdog at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM (Oi60j)

27 No idea what's causing the wide stance here. It's just text, FFS.

Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM (OZPoa)

28 "6
Don't worry everyone.... The rich are going to pay their fair share soon. That will solve all of our problems, Obama said so.


Posted by: Matt at December 23, 2012 02:00 PM (x0/jv)"


I doubt that even Obama believes this. What's so interesting about the Left from a "civilizational collapse" perspective is that they seem to think that they will survive it, despite the fact that they are concentrated in the areas of the country most vulnerable to any sort of supply chain disruptions brought on by a collapse in financial and currency markets.

Couple that with their ideology, which would probably cause them to divert scarce resources to paying for Sandra Fluke's birth control over paying the soldiers necessary to enforce their ideology post-collapse and it makes the French aristocrats who supported the French Revolution, who later met their fates on the guillotine as events spun out of control, look like geniuses in comparison.

Posted by: BS Inc. at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM (eP0u9)

29 I'm telling the moron horde to get out before it's too late. We are becoming Argentina. The conservative party in Argentina has a whopping 11 seats in their body equivalent to our House. The liberals have fractured into a dozen or more little special interest parties fighting for their share of the free shit. Do you want to be one of the people who didn't walk out of East Berlin when it was still possible?

Posted by: Gordon undead Ramsay at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM (9HhTH)

30
27 No idea what's causing the wide stance here. It's just text, FFS.
Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM (OZPoa)


The link in comment 13 is blowing up the margins I believe.

Posted by: buzzion at December 23, 2012 02:20 PM (GULKT)

31 Our nation is so lucky a guy like Mitt Romney ran for president and lost.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at December 23, 2012 02:21 PM (BAnPT)

32 Based on extensive research I just did at Target, today must be nice ass and tight pants day. Guess everyone's still hoping for a Christmas miracle. Sometimes the mask slips and we get a view, however fleeting, of women's vulnerability in the realm of relationships. A good reminder

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:21 PM (XDC0v)

33 My mortgage? It is more than 105% of my household income, but it's a fixed obligation and we have an amortization date. No such luck with the feds. Unless it is dealt with, the problem will get kicked down the road until the road gets washed into the sea.

The issue with articulating about "The Debt," is that debt is neutral in and of itself. For every debt there is a credit.
Having said that, here you go. When Debt is used to finance something positive, and functional, and tangible, and with an observable level of return, no problem. Like, Your House, on a personal level, or Deposing The Nuisance Of Saddam So World Security And Commerce Eliminates A Variable, nationally.
Stability in your life, begets better work results, paying off the note regularly, securing greater income, and eventually getting another equity loan
The problem with talking about cliffs and The Debt is... what is it going towards?
Running up a line of credit with the bank to party down at the casino or financing a slothful welfare society is going to get shut off like half of europe.

Posted by: BuddyPC at December 23, 2012 02:21 PM (jfUIE)

34 wte9, in the barrel.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 23, 2012 02:21 PM (c2oll)

35 No idea what's causing the wide stance here. It's just text, FFS.

Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM (OZPoa)

Andy, I think it was the graphic in the first thread with the Lionel train. I could literately see it change while that was loading.
Try removing that graphic (or shrinking it)

Posted by: Vic at December 23, 2012 02:22 PM (53z96)

36 28 They're like 10-year olds who believe that all their problems will be solved if they just run away from home. And they need to be treated accordingly.

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:23 PM (XDC0v)

37 Not to step on fluffy's thread but I ran across a picture of the 'irresistible attraction' women in Iowa. (linked above)

Meh.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 23, 2012 02:23 PM (bmBVx)

38 wte9, it's tinyurl not tiny urologist.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at December 23, 2012 02:23 PM (BAnPT)

39 Excellent wrap-up, fluffy.


Thank you, Sir.


This is the conversation I never get to have with Olaf.

Posted by: fluffy at December 23, 2012 02:23 PM (z9HTb)

40 >>Have you ever had a credit card problem?



The credit card problem is a good analogy except that we have given the card to a corrupt and irresponsible 2nd party, to enable them to retain power and perks, by spending the money on a parasitic 3rd party, that is killing the host.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 23, 2012 02:24 PM (aZ6ew)

41 A-ha! It wasn't the post, it was that WSJ link in the comments.

Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:24 PM (OZPoa)

42 That is the galling thing about this, is that I, like most of you, doubtless, have exercised fiscal responsibility in our personal lives. I never bought a house that was too big, a car that I could not pay for (I mean, in cash) or have kids that I could not feed.

What a fool I have been.

Posted by: navybrat at December 23, 2012 02:25 PM (hyY02)

43 Posted by: Beto Ochoa at December 23, 2012 02:23 PM (BAnPT)

Blop. I blame the booze.

Posted by: wte9 at December 23, 2012 02:25 PM (6Tcdo)

44 As far as the debt goes Barky is working on it. He is printing dollars as fast as he can. It is called "monetizing".



In ten years all working people will ne making $150K a year and paying a LOT more taxes even though that 150K will only be worth 75K of today's dollars.


Meanwhile people like me will still be making the same amount and eating dog food.

Posted by: Vic at December 23, 2012 02:26 PM (53z96)

45 >> Andy, I think it was the graphic in the first thread with the Lionel train. I could literately see it change while that was loading.
Try removing that graphic (or shrinking it)

Yeah, I screwed up a tag and fixed that while you were posting your news.

Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:26 PM (OZPoa)

46
37 Not to step on fluffy's thread but I ran across a picture of the 'irresistible attraction' women in Iowa. (linked above)Meh.


Really? That's "too hot I need to fire you so I'm not tempted to bang you?" Was she wearing clothes that had her tits hanging out all the time or something?

Posted by: buzzion at December 23, 2012 02:27 PM (GULKT)

47 37 Yeah but what you have to understand is that 7-8's like that try so much harder than 9's and 10's. Now she's cut her hair and gained weight. her husband must be thrilled

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:27 PM (XDC0v)

48 Sorry I didn't get this posted for you yesterday, Fluffy.

But, on the bright side, I did survive the mall.

Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:27 PM (OZPoa)

49 Posted by: Gordon undead Ramsay at December 23, 2012 02:19 PM

I'm not going to run away. Where to go?

Alas--never thought I'd see the day when "American Refugees" would exist.

Posted by: JeanQueenie at December 23, 2012 02:28 PM (Gmp2Z)

50 46 7-8's have a tendency to, 'cuz they know they have to work harder

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:28 PM (XDC0v)

51 This is one of my pet peeves. You should not be using the "official" numbers. Use the real number: $86.8 trillion and rising


My personal assumption re: unfunded liabilities is that at some point, Joe Biden Jr. will send out an email blast from some unknown island with the text:


Sorry, the well is dry


The feds owe exactly $0 of what you kicked into the SS fund.

Posted by: fluffy at December 23, 2012 02:29 PM (z9HTb)

52 >> Really? That's "too hot I need to fire you so I'm not tempted to bang you?" Was she wearing clothes that had her tits hanging out all the time or something?

When you're old, married, and looking for some strange, about 90% of hawtness is availability. Or so I hear.

Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:29 PM (OZPoa)

53 Here's an instructive pic: http://tinyurl.com/czwj3a5

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:30 PM (XDC0v)

54 Balance the budget then implement a $10 per barrel royalty on oil from federal lands that can only be used to pay off the federal debt. Similar royalties on natural gas and other minerals and we could be debt free in 20 years. Sooner if you factor in velocity of the billions not sent out of our GDP.

Just getting people back to work, paying taxes, and off the public dole could probably balance most of the budget deficit.

“USGS estimates that the Green River Formation contains about 3
trillion barrels of oil, and about half of this may be recoverable,
depending on available technology and economic conditions,” Mittal
testified.

Posted by: Nate Ogden at December 23, 2012 02:30 PM (AJgaw)

55 I say we need a $100/ton tax on newsprint.

Posted by: Vic at December 23, 2012 02:31 PM (53z96)

56 Not to step on fluffy's thread but I ran across a picture of the 'irresistible attraction' women in Iowa.


Interrupting the news for a PSA is perfectly acceptable.


Nice tat, Dr Chomp.

Posted by: fluffy at December 23, 2012 02:32 PM (z9HTb)

57 When you're old, married, and looking for some strange, about 90% of hawtness is availability. Or so I hear.
Posted by: Andy at December 23, 2012 02:29 PM (OZPoa)


Well looking at her I'm thinking all future Dental Hygenists he needs to hire to avoid temptation are going to need to be 50 years old.

And men.

Posted by: buzzion at December 23, 2012 02:32 PM (GULKT)

58 Repudiation.

Posted by: Call me Ishmael at December 23, 2012 02:32 PM (p4U6S)

59 My mortgage? It is more than 105% of my household income, but

...but you don't keep buying additional houses.

Posted by: t-bird at December 23, 2012 02:33 PM (FcR7P)

60 Was she wearing clothes that had her tits hanging out all the time or something?

The dentist complained that she started wearing tight clothes. They must've been very tight.

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 23, 2012 02:33 PM (fWa9K)

61 When you're old, married, and looking for some strange, about 90% of hawtness is availability. Or so I hear.

Not always.

Posted by: Mark Sanford at December 23, 2012 02:33 PM (6TB1Z)

62 The other interesting thing about a home mortgage is that you know the price, thus the date of end game is a calculable number (assuming contract law remains a feature of American life, which is becoming more and more iffy).

With Uncle Sugar's debt, the price is not only not fixed, it has a built in escalator clause for the known programs that contribute to the debt, and it has no provision to control or limit future new "and vitally necessary" programs.

Posted by: Hrothgar - LIB or SMOD (for the Children) at December 23, 2012 02:33 PM (Cnqmv)

63 You have to consider what is important to you, there is no new capitalist utopia to go to. Depending on whether your priority is low taxes, good medical care, low crime, or an English speaking country, your optimum solution may be different from mine.

Posted by: Gordon undead Ramsay at December 23, 2012 02:34 PM (9HhTH)

64 Sorry I didn't get this posted for you yesterday, Fluffy.



But, on the bright side, I did survive the mall.



Glad you made it home safely.

Posted by: fluffy at December 23, 2012 02:34 PM (z9HTb)

65 I'm missing something. Where is the link?

Posted by: pep at December 23, 2012 02:34 PM (6TB1Z)

66 I'm missing something. Where is the link?

You mean "What movie is this about?"

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 23, 2012 02:35 PM (fWa9K)

67 Do you want to be one of the people who didn't walk out of East Berlin when it was still possible?

There is no West Berlin in this case. You would be walking into Potsdam.

Posted by: t-bird at December 23, 2012 02:35 PM (FcR7P)

68 32
Based on extensive research I just did at Target, today must be nice ass
and tight pants day. Guess everyone's still hoping for a Christmas
miracle. Sometimes the mask slips and we get a view, however fleeting,
of women's vulnerability in the realm of relationships. A good reminder

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:21 PM (XDC0v)

Dude, if you are going to drop that hint of nice asses and tight pants, there must be pix included.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 23, 2012 02:37 PM (Zd/NW)

69 No habla "share".

Posted by: Frito Bandito at December 23, 2012 02:38 PM (vWZa0)

70 “USGS estimates that the Green River Formation...

Thanks, never heard of that one. I loved driving thru Western Colorado. Any action starting out there?

Posted by: t-bird at December 23, 2012 02:39 PM (FcR7P)

71 Yeah, but Mitt Romney put his dog on the roof of his car.

And Sarah Palin is stoopid.

Posted by: Warden at December 23, 2012 02:40 PM (0DlnM)

72 When Debt is used to finance something positive, and functional, and
tangible, and with an observable level of return, no problem.



That's being completely ignored in Washington. They even ignored the Keynesian model of paying off the debt in prosperous times.


Stability in your life, begets better work results, paying off the note regularly, securing greater income


If only we did. All we seem to be doing is pumping a greater portion of our devalued dollars through the feds.

Posted by: fluffy at December 23, 2012 02:41 PM (z9HTb)

73 ZeroHedge present:

The 12 Charts Recapping The 12 Months Of 2012

It's not a pretty picture

Posted by: Fact Checker with no bias whatsoever at December 23, 2012 02:41 PM (e8kgV)

74 70 Not really. Some nat gas, but they keep coming up with more and more regulations. We could really be kicking some ass on nat gas but the dems/enviro wachosdon't like it.

Posted by: Infidel at December 23, 2012 02:42 PM (k/0m2)

75 @71
Yup, and Romney doesn't speak "Oprah".

Grownups don't worry about whether the president "understands them". They want him to make the damn trains run on time and not take their money. We are now a nation ruled by grasping, juvenile mouth-breathers. Things should go just swimmingly.

Posted by: pep at December 23, 2012 02:43 PM (6TB1Z)

76 61 Lotsa times married women of that age are very aggressive about putting themselves out there to prove to themselves that they could still, in this case, pull a dentist if they wanted to. Very aggressive. Hard for normal guys who probably have limited experience in that domain ('cuz they were actually STUDYING in college, not partying) to deal with.

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:43 PM (XDC0v)

77 "You have to consider what is important to you,..."

Well, it's important to me to remain --as a thorn in BHO's backside, mostly-- because I am an American: first, last and always.

Posted by: JeanQueenie at December 23, 2012 02:43 PM (Gmp2Z)

78
88.8 trillion in "unfunded" liabilities don't mean shit. It will not be paid out.......... like ever.... as Taylor Swift would say. Whenthe shit hits the fan the gubmint checks to SS, Medicare, Medicaid, EBTetc etc will stop flowing to all the parasites and deserving taxpayers alike... those who thought they were gonna ride the gubmint free shit train to the grave are going to be SOL.

Do not count on any promise from the government.... and for sure do not base your future on any promise from the government.

Buy lead and boomsticks.... and a wood stove if you don't already have one.... etc. etc.... oh, and Merry Christmas to all the Morons and ettes!!

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at December 23, 2012 02:44 PM (+R/19)

79 Para English, presione dos.

Posted by: Frito Bandito at December 23, 2012 02:44 PM (vWZa0)

80 As much as leftists pretend to like talking politics (they don't actually talk politics or policy, they talk smack), it's impossible to get them to engage on this issue.

Telling, huh?

I've never had a serious conversation with a left winger about what to do about the problem of the debt. Oh, sure, they'll talk about who's to blame (Boooosh for running 1/4 the deficit as President Wee Wee). but solutions? Tax the rich and gut the military.

When you point out THAT doesn't even solve the problem, they just shut down.

I swear they must think a bunch of rich people are holding trillions in treasure in some vault somewhere like Scooge McDuck. And if we could just get them to give us the password, no one would ever want for anything ever again.

Posted by: Warden at December 23, 2012 02:47 PM (0DlnM)

81 The number one needs to look at is the Unfunded liabilities. 122,000,000,000,000. That is what has been promises to be paid but the bill is not here yet. Well what you where promised in your government backed pension will not be there, ever. That 12% per year interest paid by the government when in reality if you get 1.2% per years from wall street will be the biggest cliff when the bulk of baby boomer retire.

Posted by: Trevor (@tjexcite) at December 23, 2012 02:48 PM (Ea64Y)

82 The desperation on display kinda makes me sad. And when i think of my younger days when i was tragically susceptible to that type of bait I'm glad I'm older and smart enough to recognize a trap when i see it now. Glad, yet kinda sad that nothing gets me as fired up any more like it used to when i was a young lad. It was nice to be that excited about something, even though it was gonna end in a brutal beatdown. It was nice to not know the consequences of certain choices and decisions I made. It's better now.

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:49 PM (XDC0v)

83 Posted by: t-bird at December 23, 2012 02:39 PM (FcR7P)

Big problem with the Green River formation, is a lack of Water out there... its a HUGE area, and pretty arid... and Fracking does take water...

But that can be overcome through engineeering, as long as the Enviros and Feds allow us to actualy build some stuff.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 23, 2012 02:50 PM (lZBBB)

84 I pay no taxes and make $40K a year in tax free govt benefits. The fuck do I care about national debt?
- Obama base voter

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 23, 2012 02:50 PM (HDgX3)

85
My mortgage? It is more than 105% of my household income, but


Also, a house is an asset. Most of our debt was accumulated from transfer payments. In other words, we have dick to show for it.



Posted by: Warden at December 23, 2012 02:51 PM (0DlnM)

86 The $115 K figure for your share of the debt is low, IF you actualy pay a net income tax...

Remember, this debt has NOTHING to do with Social Sec, or Medicare... so payroll taxes don't count... this is ONLY paid back by those paying Net income tax...

So now.... take that 115 K and DOUBLE it....

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 23, 2012 02:51 PM (lZBBB)

87 78 When the money runs out I'm very suspicious that the money will continue to flow to favored constituencies but not to pensioners who will be overwhelmingly white, and thus appropriately punished for their historical racism. Revenge. Don't believe me? Who gets more money today, the welfare queen or that sergeant in combat?

Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:52 PM (XDC0v)

88 In these terms, that's about 40% (18 years in a ~45 year working life) of your total labor which goes to the Federal government, to be spent at the discretion of people other than you.

Pretty close to a definition of slavery.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows Hillary fainted from tight Spanx at December 23, 2012 02:55 PM (Lxw+T)

89 Screw this econ. Where's my free shit?

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 23, 2012 02:55 PM (MPjT8)

90 The govt spends 1200 billion more every year than it takes in. The Obama solution is to tax an extra 80 billion with no cuts in spending.

This would be like me spending $1200 more a month than I make and the solution to the problem is get a second job that pays $80 but keep spending the same amount. No rational person would think this is a good plan.

Frame it this way and the average Joe gets it. Frame it the Republican way - with the same talking points about job creators and the laffer curve which nobody understand - average Joe glazes over and believes Obama's "fairness" talk.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 23, 2012 02:56 PM (HDgX3)

91 >>As much as leftists pretend to like talking politics (they don't
actually talk politics or policy, they talk smack), it's impossible to
get them to engage on this issue.

Telling, huh?



As I said on the gun thread, watching them talk about guns this past week in such a strident, agenda-centric manner, completely divorced from all relevant facts, is a fascinating glimpse into their propaganda patterns.

They only know that they are smarter than everyone and how to capture the megaphone to promote that concept.

Nothing that they are about is grounded in reality excepting for one future set of circumstances, total failure and totalitarian government.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 23, 2012 02:56 PM (aZ6ew)

92 Posted by: DAve at December 23, 2012 02:52 PM (XDC0v)

Their plan is the money WILL flow... it just won't be worth anything...

They have already gerrymandered the Inflation rate, so Soc Sec people get less of an increase per year... even though REAL inflation is well above 8%.... and then they devalue the dollar by the Fed just printing money in the name of Keynesian economics...

So... they will pay... you just won't be able to live off it...

Oh... and with Savings and many (most) investments paying back less than inflation? They are also destroying the NEXT Generations ablility to pay for retirement...

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 23, 2012 02:56 PM (lZBBB)

93 Social Security will slowly over time turn into a welfare program. The "rich" will pay into it and get nothing back. The "poor" will pay nothing into it and get everything back.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 23, 2012 02:58 PM (HDgX3)

94 average Joe glazes over and believes Obama's "fairness" talk.

Imhotep...Imhotep...IMHOTEP

Posted by: Bruce at December 23, 2012 02:58 PM (d6+Gd)

95 Nothing that they are about is grounded in reality excepting for one future set of circumstances, total failure and totalitarian government.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 23, 2012 02:56 PM (aZ6ew)

Exactly, and that is one of our failings as thinking conservatives.

We do not appreciate the tactics of our opponents.

They do not care about results; they do not care about logic; they do not care about anything other than the consolidation of their power.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 23, 2012 03:00 PM (GsoHv)

96 They do not care about results; they do not care about logic; they do not care about anything other than the consolidation of their power.

Ding ding ding.

Posted by: Infidel at December 23, 2012 03:01 PM (k/0m2)

97 We do not appreciate the tactics of our opponents.

They
do not care about results; they do not care about logic; they do not
care about anything other than the consolidation of their power.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 23, 2012 03:00 PM (GsoHv)

________________
A-fucking men to that. And you see this on blogs like Hotair (with the exception of Allah) and National Review. They just don't get that libs/Dems are not about implementing a better solution to a problem. They are about destroying the opposition and consolidating power.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 23, 2012 03:03 PM (HDgX3)

98 About the only way they could pay down the debt would be to let people buy their freedom back. That is if they give the feds roughly $120k then they are never taxed again at the federal level and they get to live under a version of the Constitution that matches its original text instead of the anything goes version we have now. You know who would go for that deal in droves? People on the left, bankers, lawyers, academicians and artists. The elite always get special dispensation so they might as well pay something for it.

Pretty soon $120k will probably be the exit fee to get the hell out of the country anyway.


Posted by: Voluble at December 23, 2012 03:03 PM (qYvEa)

99
Imhotep...Imhotep...IMHOTEP


Posted by: Bruce at December 23, 2012 02:58 PM (d6+Gd)

That's "Bubba Ho Tep" chief.

Posted by: Bruce Campbell at December 23, 2012 03:03 PM (Zd/NW)

100 At this point why should I care what the national debt is? It will never be paid back or down, we have crossed the Rubicon. Let crash and burn...and then start over.

Posted by: dscott at December 23, 2012 03:05 PM (EYzt8)

101 Bubba Ho Tep

I have got to find that movie!!!

Posted by: Bruce at December 23, 2012 03:13 PM (d6+Gd)

102 Liberals have made it quite clear that not everyone is obligated with the same "share" of the national burden.

Many don't pay anything at all!

Posted by: gastorgrab at December 23, 2012 03:17 PM (FX38i)

103 My husband and I have figured for some time that we will never see a dime of SS or anything else. If we're wrong, hey, that's great, but I'm afraid we're not wrong. What we are is white, asset-owning (business, almost zero liquidity) older peeps who have already been 'encouraged' by govt to retire later than we were told.

I'm afraid it will come down to "root hog, or die" and my old rooter is tired and sore.

Posted by: Pentangle at December 23, 2012 03:22 PM (b2twO)

104
There is a reason that 15 years ago I decided to be free and clear of any and all debt. I am 30 days from that point in time. With two years of food in house, water purification system with available water nearby, an oil and gas well on my land anda 300 yard free fire zone around me. I am ready. Are you?
Those of you that have chosen to live beyond your means..Well, GMAC is waiting for your multiple car payments (gotta drive the latest luxury vehicles), Wells Fargo is waiting for your payment for your McMansion, Chase is waiting for yourmultiple credit cardpayments, the gas, electic, water, sewer, etc city utility is waiting for their payment, the County is counting on your $2000+ property tax payment (I pay $235/year for 80 acres), I have no sympathy for you.
Yes, I will pay dearly for any money I have stashed in IRA'a, 401k's, savings, checking or MM accounts, but I can drop off the radar when necessary.
Cows are tasty, gardens are easy to grow and I got lots of land. Living in the NE is really gonna suck.

Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2012 03:22 PM (3hoDN)

105 104 How YOU doin?

Posted by: Infidel at December 23, 2012 03:25 PM (k/0m2)

106 Living large on a budget!!

Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2012 03:28 PM (3hoDN)

107 Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2012 03:22 PM (3hoDN)

You a farmer Andrew? 'Cause I'm one, and subsistence farming is killing hard work. Emphasis on the killing. You spend all day, every day, just keeping heat going and food on the table. You turn gaunt waiting for fiddle head ferns in March, and that's assuming you know what wild plants you can eat and what you can't. I hear all the time from people who think they can live off their little plot. My advice? Do it. For a year. Through the winter. No cheating. Then revise your plans accordingly. When everybody did substistance farming, so they could, you know, subsist, you know what people did a lot? Die.

Posted by: Pentangle at December 23, 2012 03:30 PM (b2twO)

108 Nice thread Fluffy. I hope to see you linked by one of the big bloggers, you know, the ones in the top 10.

The numbers are staggering and only getting bigger. Even the interest on the money we owe, as individuals, is crippling. And I can't wait until we go over the cliff and TFG raises rates, as I heard him say the other day to the weeping boner.



Posted by: sTevo at December 23, 2012 03:31 PM (VMcEw)

109
I get the current debt figure of $16,395,173,356,211.


Good news everyone. It's now $16,400,000,000,000

Posted by: Professor Farnsworth at December 23, 2012 03:37 PM (mETGQ)

110
Farmers are differet than subsistence growers. I work for myself, not the rest of the takers out there. And my plot might not be the biggest out there, but it is bigger than most for one person.
I have the highest respect for the farmers growing food for this nation (they are slowly disappearing, and as per some ahole from Iowa in DC, they are becoming less relevant). My grandfather and great uncle owned a farm in Iowa years ago. I wish to this day that they owned it long enough for me to take over. But my parent, who had 8 children,went in a different direction. That is why I am where I am. I planned ahead. Years ago.

Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2012 03:42 PM (3hoDN)

111 parents"

Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2012 03:44 PM (3hoDN)

112 I take it back, then Andrew, since it sounds like you've had some experience at what you want to do. I just cringe at all the people who own a little land and who think they are going to quit their city life and go live on it. My husband and I could do it, since we've practiced from time to time, but at a little over 60 years, I don't *want* to do it. May not have a choice, though, if it really all goes up.

Posted by: Pentangle at December 23, 2012 03:54 PM (b2twO)

113 As awful as this is, the more frightening bit is left unstated -- If each taxpayer owes north of $100K, then at 4% (historically low), the first $4K of taxes every year goes to pay interest. If you actually want defense, criminals off the streets, and all that -- well, you just have to pay more. And for everyone who doesn't pony up that $4K -- well, you'll have to pay more for that as well.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 23, 2012 03:59 PM (kaalw)

114 Never give a crack whore a credit card.

Oops, too late.

Posted by: wth at December 23, 2012 04:02 PM (wAQA5)

115 This is why you clowns need to stop baggin' on Meggie Mac, and embrace the FUPA.

Posted by: Fritz at December 23, 2012 04:02 PM (w3+gB)

116 My share is directly proportional to the free birth control I have coming my way.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at December 23, 2012 04:06 PM (qs9G3)

117 Moron hint: If you're waiting on a FedEx delivery and you get an email about it not being delivered, don't open the email.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 23, 2012 04:10 PM (MPjT8)

118 How much does a Ponzie Scheme have in liabilities?

None, once it is revealed as a scam.

Ergo: Social Security and Medicare do not have liabilities because they are scams.

They can be nothing but scams because their liabilities exceed the possibility of repayment.

Posted by: Minuteman at December 23, 2012 04:17 PM (qs9G3)

119
Pentangle, we are screwed. You know it, I know it. I don't harbor any ill thoughts. Just best wishes for this country. But, we are screwed all around.
If the SHTF, get ready to become a maker, or get ready!

Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2012 04:21 PM (3hoDN)

120
Minuteman:
SCOTUS ruled a loooonggg time ago that SS was nothing more that a long dildo waiting for you.

Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2012 04:25 PM (3hoDN)

121 Andrew-
I've figured all of my life that SS was just another one of FDR' s ways to fuck us out of our freedom. If it's so great an idea why is it compulsory?

I have never thought I'd get any return on SS. I thought that since was 25 years old back in the '80 when Reagan was President.

Posted by: Minuteman at December 23, 2012 04:34 PM (qs9G3)

122 Um, you do realize that "staying free and clear of debt" is what you do when you think prosperity is just around the corner, right?

Posted by: Gerry at December 23, 2012 04:34 PM (G75Lr)

123 You do realize that "staying free and clear of debt" is what you do when you think prosperity is just around the corner, right?


With the exception of my mortgage, it is how I try to live at all times. Any hints about how I can improve on that?

Posted by: fluffy at December 23, 2012 04:40 PM (z9HTb)

124 It is my position that Gov. employees pay no tax, they simply move tax money.

The private company/employee is the only tax payer.

More research, and math may be in order.

Posted by: nip at December 23, 2012 05:01 PM (11Tdq)

125 I saw this woman I know the other day. She is 40 years old, never been married and had 3 kids. When I met her she was working very hard but shortly after that about late 2009 she was fired, probably for never showing up. She got her stomach stapled and deemed herself hot. She said to me look in the back seat. I looked back and saw a new baby. I asked if his name was Meal Ticket, no I didn't, but I wanted to so badly.

Posted by: madamex at December 23, 2012 05:09 PM (Ztp7S)

126 It is my position that Gov. employees pay no tax, they simply move tax money.



The private company/employee is the only tax payer.



A private company creates wealth. The gov't consumes it. While some GS-14 is making their living on tax money, they are still part of the economy. They buy a car, live somewhere, eat food; the whole nine yards.


More research, and math may be in order.


Yar. Makes me wish I knew the actual math. I'd like to kick it Laffer style.

Posted by: fluffy at December 23, 2012 05:18 PM (z9HTb)

127 Those of us with weapons should insist that only those employed in government service, other than the military below general rank be saddled with the bill. After all they are why the government keeps getting bigger.

Posted by: ALL_IS_LOST at December 23, 2012 06:39 PM (T/L2Z)

128 #93

We're already there. Social Security officially became an entitlement program when they decided to have a tax holiday on withholding. Have you ever known an insurance program to have a payment holiday? I haven't. With this tax holiday the government overtly proclaimed a disconnect between SS revenues and payouts.

Posted by: epobirs at December 23, 2012 07:18 PM (kcfmt)

129 #115

If the FUPA is embraceable, you need to substitute Morbidly Obese for Fat in that acronym.

Posted by: epobirs at December 23, 2012 07:22 PM (kcfmt)

130 [strike]test[/strike]

Posted by: 18-1 at December 26, 2012 10:00 PM (AUeaU)

131 test

Posted by: 18-1 at December 26, 2012 10:00 PM (AUeaU)

132 test

Posted by: 18-1 at December 26, 2012 10:00 PM (AUeaU)






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