The 2nd Amendment vs. Property Rights [CharlieBrown'sD????]

Stephen Bainbridge is a well-respected law professor and blogger who is a strong advocate of property rights. He writes here about the conflict between our right to bear arms and other's rights to control over their property. In Korb v. Voith Industrial Servs., Inc., 12CV0222 (W.D. Ky Nov. 28, 2012), a corporation terminated an employee for violating the company policy prohibiting weapons on company property.

I think he is perfectly correct, and the court made the right decision. And lest you think I am not a 2nd Amendment absolutist, ponder this: the virtual ban on full-auto is a ridiculous infringement on our rights. The founders didn't add the 2nd Amendment to protect our right to hunt or target shoot....they had bigger game in mind.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 10:29 AM

Comments

1 Charlie To the rescue

Posted by: My shit is liberal at December 21, 2012 10:30 AM (uFY4s)

2 Apropos of nothing, I have a new squirrel rifle on order.

Posted by: toby928Š for TB at December 21, 2012 10:30 AM (QupBk)

3 A private corporation has the right to ban guns on its premises as long as it doesn't needlessly harm the public

Posted by: alex at December 21, 2012 10:31 AM (uFY4s)

4 2: a Squirrel made rifle, that's incredible

Posted by: alex at December 21, 2012 10:31 AM (uFY4s)

5 Can this be an open gun thread

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:32 AM (uFY4s)

6 a Squirrel made rifle, that's incredible

Their tiny hands do good work.

Posted by: toby928Š for TB at December 21, 2012 10:33 AM (QupBk)

7 4 2: a Squirrel made rifle, that's incredible
Posted by: alex at December 21, 2012 10:31 AM (uFY4s)

Now that's just nuts.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 21, 2012 10:33 AM (t06LC)

8 Good morning, Morons! Nuke 'em till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark!

Posted by: Country Singer at December 21, 2012 10:34 AM (L8r/r)

9 http://tinyurl.com/d37kmmc
My favorite gun picture

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:34 AM (uFY4s)

10 Property rights trump gun rights...yes, that sounds right. If I can stop you from putting a sign on my property then I can stop you from carrying on my property.

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:34 AM (RD7QR)

11 A private corporation has the right to ban guns on its premises as long as it doesn't needlessly harm the public

When you remove the right of self defense from someone, YOU assume the obligation to provide for it.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (GFM2b)

12 Depleted Uranium is a strong poison, all it takes is 1 gram of the stuff to kill you (via poisoning)

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (uFY4s)

13 If I take my gun onto my employer's property, I can be fired. Luckily I only have 5 days left.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (8sCoq)

14 Their tiny hands do good work.
Posted by: toby928Š for TB at December 21, 2012 10:33 AM (QupBk)

I see you subscribe to the Willy Wonka school of thought RE: squirrels. Very good.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (4df7R)

15 Someone said squirrel rifles?

http://tinyurl.com/copqg4o

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Sacred Ampersands at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (GBXon)

16 Bad link.

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (RD7QR)

17 11
A private corporation has the right to ban guns on its premises as long as it doesn't needlessly harm the public

When you remove the right of self defense from someone, YOU assume the obligation to provide for it.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (GFM2b)
That is what I mean. Any location that bans guns must provide the necessary security for the defense of the denizens within

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (uFY4s)

18 ::: the virtual ban on full-auto is a ridiculous infringement on our rights:::

No kidding. I need a 7.62mm minigun in the worst way.

I have racoons.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 21, 2012 10:36 AM (CJjw5)

19 Wait, is there actually a fight about this? I thought the general consensus was that the private property owners had a right to say no guns on their property and those who didn't agree with that had every right to say that's fucking stupid and to refuse to go to that place. I don't see a conflict here.

So help me, if this starts the Zoning Wars, I'm letting the velociraptors loose on all y'all.

Posted by: alexthechick - Told you we weren't worthy of SMOD at December 21, 2012 10:36 AM (VtjlW)

20 Lets try this one then
http://tinyurl.com/y9cmj2o

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:36 AM (uFY4s)

21 18
::: the virtual ban on full-auto is a ridiculous infringement on our rights:::

No kidding. I need a 7.62mm minigun in the worst way.

I have racoons.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 21, 2012 10:36 AM (CJjw5)
Damn Coons

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (uFY4s)

22 That is what I mean. Any location that bans guns must provide the necessary security for the defense of the denizens within

Which VERY few places do.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (GFM2b)

23 >When you remove the right of self defense from someone, YOU assume the obligation to provide for it.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:35 AM (GFM2b)

and that's the thing- security for employees walking out to their cars after midnight consists of available lighting in the parking lot- a parking lot which is a right of way between several apartment complexes on one side, and several local watering holes on the other

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (8sCoq)

24 22
That is what I mean. Any location that bans guns must provide the necessary security for the defense of the denizens within

Which VERY few places do.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (GFM2b)
And they should be sued into oblivion

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (uFY4s)

25 Stupid ray-cons.

Posted by: toby928Š for TB at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (QupBk)

26 I can't believe you gun nut assholes are in favor of arming squirrels.

Will you stop at nothing?

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (+IPd1)

27 9 http://tinyurl.com/d37kmmc
My favorite gun picture
Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:34 AM (uFY4s)

Linky no worky.

Posted by: RWC at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (fWAjv)

28 26
I can't believe you gun nut assholes are in favor of arming squirrels.

Will you stop at nothing?

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 10:37 AM (+IPd1)
It would make things interesting

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (uFY4s)

29 When you start arming squirrels, you've gone too far.

Posted by: jwest at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (ZDsRL)

30
Well this is simple, the company has a right to protect their property too, any way they see fit.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (69Mdf)

31 27
9 http://tinyurl.com/d37kmmc

My favorite gun picture

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:34 AM (uFY4s)

Linky no worky.

Posted by: RWC at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (fWAjv)
Try the link belowhttp://tinyurl.com/y9cmj2o

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (uFY4s)

32 My old company banned guns on company property, including the parking lot. And they searched all cars coming into the parking lot.

Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (53z96)

33 32
My old company banned guns on company property, including the parking
lot. And they searched all cars coming into the parking lot.

Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (53z96)
why, were they afraid of someone going postal or something

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:39 AM (uFY4s)

34 I can't believe you gun nut assholes are in favor of arming squirrels.

Will you stop at nothing?

Oppossums are next.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:39 AM (GFM2b)

35 I have a new squirrel rifle on order.

Yea!, uh... That's exactly what my new one is for!

Won't be anything left of the little buggers when I hit one, but..

that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at December 21, 2012 10:39 AM (4Mv1T)

36 All rights are property rights.

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 10:39 AM (+IPd1)

37 GAU 8 for squirrels .

This is gonna' be great !

Posted by: awkward flounder davies at December 21, 2012 10:40 AM (USjX1)

38 GAU 8 for squirrels .

This is gonna' be great !

Posted by: awkward flounder davies at December 21, 2012 10:40 AM (USjX1)

39 36
All rights are property rights.

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 10:39 AM (+IPd1)
Guns are property, I have a right to my property

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:40 AM (uFY4s)

40 A headline on Drudge:

Gun Supplier Sells 3.5 Years Worth of Magazines -- in Just 3 Days!
CNS News: http://tiny.cc/33aopw

Brownells, the world's largest supplier of firearms, has reportedly sold three-and-a-half years worth of magazines in just seventy-two hours.

Guns.com reports that Bronwnells spokesman Jason Corpus said:

"I wanted to take a minute to shed some insight on the magazine situation if I can. First of all I wanted to offer an apology for the situation... with magazines being 'In-Stock' and back-ordered moments later... [The] demand for magazines actually exceeded the ability for the system to keep up with the volume that was being ordered.

"To shed some more light on the magazine situation at present, it really has been unprecedented in the last 5 days. During a roughly 72 hour period...we sold the 'average demand' equivalent of about 3.5 years worth of PMAGS, and an even greater amount of our Brownells magazines."...

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 21, 2012 10:40 AM (4df7R)

41 20 Lets try this one then
http://tinyurl.com/y9cmj2o
Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:36 AM (uFY4s)

Ahhh. Good ol' Davy Crockett.

I hear tell you can get one at a local gun show...well, that's what O'Reilly said.

Posted by: RWC at December 21, 2012 10:41 AM (fWAjv)

42 36

All rights are property rights.

Eh? Even freedom of speech and religion?

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:41 AM (RD7QR)

43
Here is another good gun picture
http://tinyurl.com/2cy2j2m

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:41 AM (uFY4s)

44 Ooops .

Posted by: awkward flounder davies at December 21, 2012 10:41 AM (USjX1)

45
20 Lets try this one then

Does that come with a high-cap magazine?

Posted by: Rule #2 at December 21, 2012 10:41 AM (CypDC)

46 Infinite scripts when you come here on Mozilla.

Posted by: Butters at December 21, 2012 10:41 AM (NIZHJ)

47 re: 33

Military Bases do searches too....

http://preview.tinyurl.com/cgfdmg5

Posted by: UnR00ster at December 21, 2012 10:42 AM (48wze)

48 The M65 Atomic Cannon

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:42 AM (uFY4s)

49 Dammit. Atomic Annie.

Davy Crockett was the more insane idea.

Posted by: RWC at December 21, 2012 10:42 AM (fWAjv)

50 If they come for the Flying Manatee Brigade, all bets are off.

Apropos of me being the Best Employee Ever, if anyone has seen my motivation, please return it. Thanks.

Posted by: alexthechick - Told you we weren't worthy of SMOD at December 21, 2012 10:42 AM (VtjlW)

51 One of my co-workers got a brand new AICS .338 lapua. He brought it inside and as me and a few other coworkers were looking at it, the boss walked by. He stopped, said "hooooly shit" and then demanded to see it.
New gun show and tell is kinda mandatory now.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 21, 2012 10:42 AM (t06LC)

52 All I want for Christmas is a nuclear cannon

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:43 AM (uFY4s)

Posted by: Max Wedge at December 21, 2012 10:43 AM (RLkAE)

54 I will use it responsibly

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:43 AM (uFY4s)

55 Even freedom of speech and religion?

Yes.

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (+IPd1)

56 My old company banned guns on company property, including the parking lot. And they searched all cars coming into the parking lot.

Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (53z96)

You worked at the Post Office?

Posted by: Count de Monet at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (BAS5M)

57 If you start arming the chipmunks, you're ASKING for trouble.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (4df7R)

58 OT
Sorry, but this is important. It's Apocalypse Day on TCM.
Last man on earth movies.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (WfUOw)

59 oops...Can we talk about important shit?....like the former Olympic runner who was an LVNV escort on the sly/side?

Posted by: Max Wedge at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (RLkAE)

60 UPDATE: Former Marine To Be Released From Mexican Prison...

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (8sCoq)

61 I will use it responsibly

And only for good, cue AtC.

Posted by: toby928Š for TB at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (QupBk)

62 New gun show and tell is kinda mandatory now.

I used to have a part time job like that. God bless fly-over country!

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:45 AM (GFM2b)

63
"The founders didn't add the 2nd Amendment to protect our right to hunt or target shoot...."

It's so refreshing to have cobloggers who understand basic concepts.

Posted by: jwest at December 21, 2012 10:45 AM (ZDsRL)

64 60
UPDATE: Former Marine To Be Released From Mexican Prison...

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (8sCoq)

Ummmmm, you're welcome!

Posted by: TEH WON at December 21, 2012 10:45 AM (RLkAE)

65 55
Even freedom of speech and religion?

Yes.

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (+IPd1)

Sorry, you're going to have to explicate that one because I'm seeing some pretty intangible rights there.

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:45 AM (RD7QR)

66 61
I will use it responsibly

And only for good, cue AtC.

Posted by: toby928Š for TB at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (QupBk)
have to go to english finals now, bye everybody.

Posted by: Alex at December 21, 2012 10:45 AM (uFY4s)

67 It's the Winter Solstice. Shouldn't we be strangling a few hobos in a bog somewhere?

Posted by: toby928Š for TB at December 21, 2012 10:45 AM (QupBk)

68 They thought of guns second. That's how meaningless they are.

Posted by: Butters at December 21, 2012 10:46 AM (NIZHJ)

69 29 When you start arming squirrels, you've gone too far.
Posted by: jwest at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (ZDsRL)

I for one have always supported the right to keep and arm bears.

What...?

Posted by: Nighthawk at December 21, 2012 10:47 AM (paPv4)

70 The M65 Atomic Cannon

single shot ... check
no pistol grip ... check
no bayonet lugs ... check

Nope, definitely not an assault weapon.

Posted by: Rule #2 at December 21, 2012 10:47 AM (CypDC)

71 59 oops...Can we talk about important shit?....like the former Olympic runner who was an LVNV escort on the sly/side?
Posted by: Max Wedge at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (RLkAE)

Link and pics required.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 21, 2012 10:47 AM (t06LC)

72 Post needs moar IDF babe.

http://bit.ly/VUv5iY

Posted by: alexthechick - Told you we weren't worthy of SMOD at December 21, 2012 10:47 AM (VtjlW)

73 Breaking but not unexpected news: Horseface Kerry will be officially nominated for Secretary of State

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 21, 2012 10:48 AM (1Jaio)

74 Employer doesn't need a policy since the city I work in does.

Pretty safe environment here.

Aggravated Assault 3,238
Arson 49
Burglary 4,224
Forcible Rape 184
Larceny and Theft 18,050
Motor Vehicle Theft 4,864
Murder and Manslaughter 132
Robbery 3,914

Posted by: RWC at December 21, 2012 10:48 AM (fWAjv)

75 Communism here we come. Let's just skip to the natural end of it by helping it die faster.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 21, 2012 10:48 AM (bb5+k)

76 Come to AZ My fellow morons
On July 13, 2009 Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed a
new law restricting the ability of Arizona employers to
prevent employees from storing lawfully owned firearms
in locked vehicles in the employers parking lot. With
some limited exceptions, beginning on September 30 an
Arizona employer will not be able to prohibit an employee
from storing a lawfully owned gun in a privately owned
car parked in the employers parking lot.

Posted by: Hard Right at December 21, 2012 10:48 AM (uhftQ)

77
Everyone has the right to go to hell in their own way, just as you have a right not to associate with them. Get a job with an outfit that doesn't hate guns. Work for your self. Live your life in a manner that this is possible.
By the way, gun show loophole is lefty language manipulation speak for ban or record all private sales. You can't confiscate a gun if you can't find it, and you can't find it if they move freely without record in private party sales.
Of the many gun shows I've been to in the last few years, I have only seen two or three private parties, and they were only advertising a single gun. Every single one of those several thousand firarms for sale at each of those shows required a federal background check, which the dealers do right there while you wait. Cell phones are good for something.

Posted by: bil at December 21, 2012 10:49 AM (EhSF0)

78 Was in Gander Mountain yesterday. They announced to all present that they were sold out of all AR-15s and all AR-15 magazines.

Posted by: jj at December 21, 2012 10:49 AM (gWO5X)

79
Just a thought, but doesn't a workplace ban have the effect of prohibiting someone from carrying when not on work property (ie on the way to work or home from work?)

To me it seems a worthwhile compromise would be to allow people to at least lock up their guns in their cars if they so choose. I wouldn't want to force a business to allow carry if they didn't want, but I don't want people to be endangered by the unintended consequences of that policy either.

Posted by: JohnTant at December 21, 2012 10:49 AM (eytER)

80 Our enemies are those people employed in distributing the news and entertainment, as well as those indoctrinating people throughout Academia. As long as these people are able to influence the population, our rights will always be in jeopardy.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 21, 2012 10:50 AM (bb5+k)

81 >Breaking but not unexpected news: Horseface Kerry will be officially nominated for Secretary of State

when does the enSwiftBoatening begin?

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:51 AM (8sCoq)

82 If someone is sent to prison and forced to give up their ability to defend themselves, the government becomes legally responsible for their safety. If a company wants to do the same, they should likewise become legally responsible for any attacks on their employees that the employee could have defended themselves from if the company had not disarmed them. If the company has no problem assuming that responsibility, then, by all means, assert your property rights.

Posted by: Socratease at December 21, 2012 10:51 AM (QpQNh)

83 Posted by: alexthechick - Told you we weren't worthy of SMOD at December 21, 2012 10:47 AM (VtjlW)

Oh, yes....

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 21, 2012 10:48 AM (1Jaio)

In case you weren't aware that VietNam Vet John Kerry served in VietNam, he is a VietNam vet that served in VietNam.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 21, 2012 10:51 AM (L8r/r)

84 The anti gun lobby probably owns stock in the black rifle manufacturers. Why else would they act to boost sales?

Posted by: Butters at December 21, 2012 10:51 AM (NIZHJ)

85
Let's hope the Swift Boat Vets crank up the machinery again against that piece of shit Kerry. It appears it's official that he's being nominated for Secretary of State.

Get him under oath and let loose on his sorry ass. Make Kennedy's rant against Bork seem like praise in comparison. Time to take the gloves off.

Posted by: jwest at December 21, 2012 10:51 AM (ZDsRL)

86 A gun thread. Beautiful.

Horde's opinion please.

http://tinyurl.com/cyqbhvy

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2012 10:52 AM (da5Wo)

87 >To me it seems a worthwhile compromise would be to allow people to at least lock up their guns in their cars if they so choose.

I think there are some states- Texas comes to mind- that says employees may keep a gun in their car parked on employer's property

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:52 AM (8sCoq)

88 Greetings from the humanities

Posted by: alex at December 21, 2012 10:52 AM (uFY4s)

89 Hiding in the middle of the river is heroic now. We call that fishing here.

Posted by: Butters at December 21, 2012 10:52 AM (NIZHJ)

90 @51 Holy smoke. Aren't those $10K+?

Posted by: Eisenhorn at December 21, 2012 10:52 AM (OjQYm)

91 Now lets talk about our feelings

Posted by: alex at December 21, 2012 10:54 AM (uFY4s)

92 has anyone here ever bought a gun at a gun show? I'm in the market for a .38 snub

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:54 AM (8sCoq)

93 91
Now lets talk about our feelings

Posted by: alex at December 21, 2012 10:54 AM (uFY4s)

I feel horny, yet vertiginous.

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:55 AM (RD7QR)

94 I'm pretty sure any volunteer militia recognized by a state governor has a 10th Amendment exemption from federal armament statutes.

The states voluntarily opt into the National Guard system and have simply chosen not to fund two separate militia systems when the Guard is federally equipped and trained.

The National Guard only came about when technology moved from musket rifles to centerfire magazine rifles. If you have two muskets of different caliber you can remelt the bullets to match on-site, like at Bunker Hill. If you hit the beach with 1000 rounds of the wrong steel-jacketed brass cartridges, as in 1898 Cuba, you're screwed. After the Spanish-American war, everybody saw the sense in a national standard for militia equipment. And the best way to achieve it was for the federal arsenal to open itself to the states.

But the practical history doesn't cancel out the 2nd and 10th Amendments. If Ohio wants 3 regiments of horse dragoons it can raise them anytime. If it wants them to have RPGs, it can issue them.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at December 21, 2012 10:55 AM (3GtyG)

95 Is Kerry going to pull that "I'm reporting for duty" bullshit again.

Posted by: RWC at December 21, 2012 10:55 AM (fWAjv)

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:55 AM (8sCoq)

97 92 has anyone here ever bought a gun at a gun show? I'm in the market for a .38 snub
Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 10:54 AM (8sCoq)

Yes. Glock 19.

Posted by: RWC at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (fWAjv)

98 Our enemies are those people employed in distributing the news and entertainment, as well as those indoctrinating people throughout Academia. As long as these people are able to influence the population, our rights will always be in jeopardy.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 21, 2012 10:50 AM (bb5+k)

I believe "manufacturing and distributing" is probably a better explanation of mfm.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (Z9EHQ)

99 If someone is sent to prison and forced to give up their ability to defend themselves, the governmentbecomes legally responsible for their safety.

One of the first things taught to prison guards who walk handcuffed inmates down hallways.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (GFM2b)

100 I also feel the value of my 403(B) slipping down the mountainside.

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (RD7QR)

101
My old company banned guns on company property, including the parking lot. And they searched all cars coming into the parking lot.

Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2012 10:38 AM (53z96)

My old company bought a really nice temperature and humidity controlled gun safe for my office.

Guess you just got to pick the right employer.

Posted by: jwest at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (ZDsRL)

102 IDF Babes (apparently that's an actual photobucket album thing)

http://tinyurl.com/crmja36

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (da5Wo)

103 BCochran,

The 870 is one of the best shotties you can buy. Go for it.

Posted by: EC at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (doBIb)

104 I am a second amendment absolutest. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged. That means that ANY gun control law is unconstitutional.

We can have incorporation or not have any incorporation.

Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (53z96)

105 OT, but the Norks have confirmed today that they arrested an American back in early November and he is awaiting trial.

Linked at Drudge.

AFP - North Korea confirmed Friday that it had arrested a US citizen in November, saying legal action would be taken against him but giving no details of the charges.

The man, identified as Pae Jun-Ho, entered North Korea on November 3 as a tourist, and "committed a crime" against the country, the official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) said.

"He was put into custody by a relevant institution," it added.

...

The arrest was first reported earlier this month by a South Korean newspaper which had identified the detainee as a a 44-year-old Korean-American tour operator...

Who goes on a tour to NORTH KOREA? Seriously?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (4df7R)

106 If a company has a gun-free policy when you apply for the job, you are accepting the situation. Don't like it? Don't take the job.

Posted by: Al at December 21, 2012 10:57 AM (V70Uh)

107 Oppossums are next.

Don't be silly. As marsupials, their pouches make them naturals for ammo carriers, or perhaps grenadiers.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, keeper of the Sacred Ampersands at December 21, 2012 10:57 AM (GBXon)

108 Cuomo is shooting his fat mouth off, no pun intended, about having forced buy backs and confiscations in ny.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 10:58 AM (Z9EHQ)

109 106
If a company has a gun-free policy when you apply for the job, you are
accepting the situation. Don't like it? Don't take the job.

Posted by: Al at December 21, 2012 10:57 AM (V70Uh)

Yes. There is a contractual component at work here.

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:58 AM (RD7QR)

110 Guns make me feel bad/sarc

Posted by: alex at December 21, 2012 10:59 AM (uFY4s)

111 Cuomo is shooting his fat mouth off, no pun intended, about having forced buy backs and confiscations in ny.
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 10:58 AM (Z9EHQ)

Someone should tell him to shut his trap before they stuff that hideous Christmas tree of his right up his ass.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 21, 2012 10:59 AM (4df7R)

112 108
Cuomo is shooting his fat mouth off, no pun intended, about having forced buy backs and confiscations in ny.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 10:58 AM (Z9EHQ)

Then he can go collecting guns in Bedford Stuyvesant.

Posted by: joncelli at December 21, 2012 10:59 AM (RD7QR)

113 Who goes on a tour to NORTH KOREA? Seriously?

Curiousity or family.

Posted by: EC at December 21, 2012 10:59 AM (doBIb)

114
NRA is about to make their first statement since the shootings.

Let's hope they don't go all wobbly on us.

Posted by: jwest at December 21, 2012 11:00 AM (ZDsRL)

115
103
BCochran,

The 870 is one of the best shotties you can buy. Go for it.

Posted by: EC at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (doBIb)

Just waiting for the check to clear. The wife has given me, limited, freedom for purchases. Shotgun, looking around for a carry gun, plenty of ammo for everything. I asked her last night if she wanted anything. If she wanted a carry gun for her purse. As of right now, she says no.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2012 11:00 AM (da5Wo)

116

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alexthechick
- Told you we weren't worthy of SMOD

Day ain't over yet!

Posted by: Paladin at December 21, 2012 11:01 AM (mCOPv)

117 Let's hope they don't go all wobbly on us.
Posted by: jwest at December 21, 2012 11:00 AM (ZDsRL)

I would not take that bet.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 21, 2012 11:01 AM (4df7R)

118 Can you imagine a "Palestinian Defense Force" babes catalog, it would be hideous.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 21, 2012 11:01 AM (dZ756)

119 Gander Mountain sells Barett .50 cal rifles? How was I not aware of this

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 11:01 AM (Z9EHQ)

120 Paladin. Barrel.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 21, 2012 11:01 AM (4df7R)

121 Just as "encryption software" is considered a munition under US export control, the Founders saw the right to bear arms meaning everything required to form an militia. This not only includes the guns required for a militia action, but ships, cannons, explosives, all the way down to guns that would be necessary for an able-bodied person to fight .. this means semi-auto and full-auto guns.

Posted by: Hank Johnson at December 21, 2012 11:01 AM (e8kgV)

122 Posted by: Paladin at December 21, 2012 11:01 AM (mCOPv)

Barrel.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2012 11:02 AM (da5Wo)

123 Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2012 11:00 AM (da5Wo)

before you leap, have you considered the 1100?

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 11:02 AM (Z9EHQ)

124 before you leap, have you considered the 1100?

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 11:02 AM (Z9EHQ)

Nice looking gun. Wife insists that she'll feel more comfortable with a pistol grip. Honestly, I prefer that "look". Also, the model I'm interested in has a "recoil reduction system" which is beneficial for the lady.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2012 11:05 AM (da5Wo)

125 Hubby is insisting I learn how to shoot. Not a big fan.

Posted by: jmel at December 21, 2012 11:05 AM (5EBXZ)

126
If you can justify forcing business owners to ban smoking, you can force them to allow weapons.

Just call it a safety issue. More responisible gun owners means less chance of dying from a violent robbery.

Posted by: Invictus at December 21, 2012 11:06 AM (OQpzc)

127 Someone related a story about Barrett sending some lapd rifles back before finishing some maintenance on them because the lapd misrepresented some barrett products in a press conference. suppliers of firearms and related materials would do well to side with absolutists on second amendment issues. Americans would do well to not patronize anyone who is not a second amendment true believer.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 11:06 AM (Z9EHQ)

128 RemEmber those OLD moviEs that made the cowboys drop their gunns off with the SHeriff before they could enter the TOWn?

Posted by: polyspurwing at December 21, 2012 11:06 AM (m2CN7)

129 I believe "manufacturing and distributing" is probably a better explanation of mfm.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (Z9EHQ)

I stand corrected.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 21, 2012 11:06 AM (bb5+k)

130
I am a second amendment absolutest. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged. That means that ANY gun control law is unconstitutional.

We can have incorporation or not have any incorporation.

Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2012 10:56 AM (53z96)

One of my favorite questions was "What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 21, 2012 11:08 AM (bb5+k)

131 one right should never override another right ... and in this case they don't ... private property rights allow one to require no one come on to your property armed ... that doesn't eliminate anyones right to keep and bear arms ... you just have to do so OFF the property ...

Posted by: JeffC at December 21, 2012 11:09 AM (A3tpD)

132 >
Hubby is insisting I learn how to shoot. Not a big fan.

Posted by: jmel at December 21, 2012 11:05 AM (5EBXZ)

It's fun. And could save your life one day.

Posted by: Jones in CO at December 21, 2012 11:09 AM (8sCoq)

133 "I believe "manufacturing and distributing" is probably a better explanation of mfm."

I'm really confused now...are we talking about threesomes here?

Posted by: Country Singer at December 21, 2012 11:11 AM (L8r/r)

134 Jmel,

Start with a .22 and target plinking. It's fun and teaches you the basics of shooting. Be safe!

Posted by: EC at December 21, 2012 11:11 AM (doBIb)

135 Hubby is insisting I learn how to shoot. Not a big fan.

Out of curiosity, why aren't you a fan? Is it the act of shootinga gun? The recoil? Are you just not interested?

Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 21, 2012 11:12 AM (3x3F6)

136 Nice looking gun. Wife insists that she'll feel more comfortable with a pistol grip. Honestly, I prefer that "look". Also, the model I'm interested in has a "recoil reduction system" which is beneficial for the lady.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2012 11:05 AM (da5Wo)

you can get a pistol grip on the 1100 in the tactical models I am pretty sure brownells sells them as well.
also is your wife comfortable using a pump in a stressful situation.

nevermind, I am sure you know what you are doing.
I have been having a similar debate with a friend lately. he originally moved me away from the pumps.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 11:13 AM (Z9EHQ)

137 Ugly hag from CODEPINK just disrupted NRA presser.

Posted by: Baldy at December 21, 2012 11:13 AM (opS9C)

138 DiogenesLamp

sorry for nit picking.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 11:14 AM (Z9EHQ)

139 I'm really confused now...are we talking about threesomes here?
Posted by: Country Singer at December 21, 2012 11:11 AM (L8r/r)

moron

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 21, 2012 11:14 AM (Z9EHQ)

140 "Ugly hag from CODEPINK" = Redundant

Posted by: Country Singer at December 21, 2012 11:15 AM (L8r/r)

141 Second protester now, same original thinking. LePierre is kicking ass, in the nicest possible way.

Who's the big Tom Cotton fan? He has a column in WSJ today, against Hagel.

Posted by: comatus at December 21, 2012 11:18 AM (qaVK+)

142 Pretty impassioned speech by LaPierre right now.

Posted by: Eisenhorn at December 21, 2012 11:19 AM (OjQYm)

143 Shotgun + babe =. FULL OF WIN!!!

http://tinyurl.com/bmtg2ul

Posted by: EC at December 21, 2012 11:22 AM (doBIb)

144 NRA calls for armed police in every school. Before the end of Christmas vacation.

I'm saving the doughnut joke for later, but I'm warning you, it's coming.

Posted by: comatus at December 21, 2012 11:22 AM (qaVK+)

145 And Fox fades it out as Wayne gets to Eddie Eagle.
NRA offers its 11000 police trainers as resource. "We've done it before."
Substantive. Wonder what The Profession of Journalism will do to it.

Posted by: comatus at December 21, 2012 11:25 AM (qaVK+)

146 Concealed carry. Concealed being the operative word, keep your friggen lip zipped and company policy be damned.

Posted by: NativeNH at December 21, 2012 11:27 AM (Dwf07)

147 Ugly hag from CODEPINK just disrupted NRA presser

Your gonna have to be more specific for an ID. Could be anyone of them. Except the one in the pic on the park bench with her gunt visibly hanging down under the hem of her "sundress." She probably doesn't lumber around too much.

Posted by: Count de Monet at December 21, 2012 11:29 AM (BAS5M)

148 Yep...I feel shame. Sorry.

Posted by: Paladin at December 21, 2012 11:31 AM (mCOPv)

149
So help me, if this starts the Zoning Wars, I'm letting the velociraptors loose on all y'all.

Don't bring velociraptors to a gun fight. But if you do, don't be surprised if I bring a 7.62mm minigun.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie Ž at December 21, 2012 11:31 AM (BDH94)

150 Is there such thing as a .22 full auto?

That would be hilarious.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 21, 2012 11:34 AM (FsUAO)

151 Of course Bainbridge is correct, if one right can trump another right then they are both meaningless.

Competing interests are at play, and that is the purpose of a court system, but more importantly one where supreme authority rests with a jury of your peers. When a court is immune from the consequences of it's decisions justice will rarely prevail.

Posted by: ThomasD at December 21, 2012 11:40 AM (FA+FN)

152 "Is there such thing as a .22 full auto?"

Ceiner used to make .22lr conversions for AR-15s, if you had a legal M16 then the device could be modified to be used in your full auto weapon.

Posted by: ThomasD at December 21, 2012 11:42 AM (FA+FN)

153 Th only real downside to .22lr in an M16 is the lead deposits that build up in the gas tube. After alot of .22LR you needed to run through a magazine of .223 and hold your breath while a big cloud of white dust came blasting out.

Posted by: ThomasD at December 21, 2012 11:44 AM (FA+FN)

154 @153

Unless you get a dedicated .22 barrel with no gas tube hole. Spikes sells them.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 21, 2012 11:45 AM (t06LC)

155 147 It was the blonde-hired one. Is that Medea Benjamin or Jodie?

Posted by: Baldy at December 21, 2012 11:46 AM (opS9C)

156 Even freedom of speech and religion?

Yes.

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 10:44 AM (+IPd1)

Sorry, you're going to have to explicate that one because I'm seeing some pretty intangible rights there.

All property rights originate with self-ownership. Ownership of the self is the reason we have ownership over the other objects we use (i.e., "the fruits of our labor").

By merely engaging in ethical argument (or legal argument, as a variant of ethical argument), a person affirms the existence of objective ethical propositions.

Likewise, by the very act of engaging in violence (exercising control over the property of another), a person denies the existence of ethical propositions, and therefore has no ethical basis to complain about being shot, killed and ground into food for pigs, for example.

Either we relate to one another without ethics, in which case there is no property and no limits on violence other than what one can physically accomplish, or ethical propositions are universal and objective.

There is no formulation of universal or objective ethical principles that could possibly grant someone else a superior claim over the use of my body.

Posted by: Phinn at December 21, 2012 11:48 AM (oFH2D)

157
If you can justify forcing business owners to ban smoking, you can force them to allow weapons.

This. In spades. An ace, even...

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie Ž at December 21, 2012 11:52 AM (BDH94)

158 Sawed off shotguns !! Full auto !! Explosive rounds !! Atomic Bombs !! and no felony exceptions. That is what the 2nd Amendment calls for in plain language.

Posted by: occam at December 21, 2012 11:58 AM (bNPll)

159 >>>That is what the 2nd Amendment calls for in plain language.

Oh look a troll. How does losing feel troll? Cause your side just got pounded.

Did you know that the homicide rate right now is much lower than it was when the 2nd amendment was adopted. Of course you don't you're a troll.

Did you know that semi-automatic weapons are over 100 years old. Of course you don't you're a troll.

Did you know that rifles with detachable magazines are over 100 years old.Of course you don't you're a troll.

Did you know that the US lowest homicide rate occurred in 1957, with the same weapon technologies we have today and far fewer gun laws. Of course you don't you're a troll.

So go ahead and slay that strawman. 'Cause that's what the impotent do.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at December 21, 2012 12:07 PM (0q2P7)

160 I really hate it when businesses post "no guns" signs, but I respect their right to do so. If I were a legislator, my preferred way to nudge businesses out of doing so would be to make them liable if anything happens and a disarmed concealed carry permit holder was present.

They could still ban guns if they wanted. But they'd be less likely to want to.

Posted by: Matt at December 21, 2012 12:52 PM (M5aS1)

161
My personal defense doctrine is overwhelming firepower with a fallback of Mutual Assured Destruction.
So yes, I do need an assault rifle.
And an RPG.

Posted by: Frankly at December 21, 2012 09:30 PM (bXNJM)

162 So how is my employer going to guarantee my safety while I am driving to and from work? If I can't leave my gun locked in my car on their property that means I can't carry to and from work...so they have the right to demand I be defenseless for an hour and a half each day?

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 21, 2012 10:09 PM (DaUUd)

163 If I accept the property owner's requirement to not bring a firearm onto his property, does he have a responsibility to protect me from assault? If I'm assaulted do I have the right to sue the property owner?

Does this prohibition implicitly deny me any right of self defense while on the property?

Posted by: Goatweed at December 21, 2012 10:35 PM (kgemg)

164 I am a strong 2nd Amendment supporter and NRA Life Member. I agree with Prof. Bainbridge that a company has a right to ban firearms on its private property. I certainly have a right to kick someone out of my house for being armed if that is what I want to do. The company has the same right I do, regardless of the wisdom of that decision. That said, the issue becomes more problematic for firearms in a private automobile that is parked on company property. Terminating someone for showing off the gun is one thing, but it becomes a much tougher call if the gun is discovered by chance--for example, what if a co-worker is helping an employee load something into the trunk of his car and sees a firearm in the trunk? I suspect that in that case the employee should not be terminated because the weapon was there for reasons entirely separate from his work, and he has the right to self defense on his way to and from work. Finally, let me just add that banning firearms from the workplace is probably a bad idea, since a "gun free zone" might better be called a "target rich environment". Nevertheless, companies, like people, have the right to control their private property.

Posted by: Ben338 at December 22, 2012 12:40 AM (+rTGN)

165
National Firearms Act 4, 11, 26 U.S.C.A. 1132c, 1132j; U.S.C.A. Const. Amend. 2. Federal Supplement p.26

On January 3, 1939, the District Court, W.D. Arkansas, Fort Smith Division ruled the NFA '34 unconstitutional. Two men, Miller and Lansky, were seen outside a bank with a sawed off shotgun. They were arrested and charged with violation of interstate commerce. The violation was that the men had brought the gun into Arkansas from Texas without an NFA tax stamp. The men had indeed brought the gun into Arkansas from Texas. The court rejected all arguments by the prosecution. The court ruled the NFA '34 was unconstitutional:

"A provision in the National Firearms Act prohibiting delivery of firearms in interstate commerce without a stamp-affixed order is violative of the constitutional amendment providing that right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Arkansas appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. Thus was born the "Miller case" that anti-gun people say ruled the 2nd Amd is not an individual right. That's bogus, of course. All the USSC ruled was that a sawed off shotgun was not the type of gun protected by the 2nd Amd because it was not a "normal" type of gun used by the militia or the U.S. armed forces.

The court was wrong about that, of course. The blunderbuss was the original short barrel shotgun (SBS), developed around the 1100's in Holland and specifically used as a military arm.
But more than that the US Supreme Court, in taking Arkansas' appeal of the lower court's rulingin the Miller case, remanded the case back to the Arkansas Distict court. However, nowhere in their review and remanding of the Miller case back to the Arkansas District court did the US Supreme court EVER OVERTURN THE ARKANSAS DISTRICT COURTS' RULING THAT NFA 1934 WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
THUS...THE NFA LICENSING, TAXATION, AND REGISTRATION SCHEME ISSTILL UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Posted by: Maximus at December 22, 2012 06:53 PM (/gaXE)

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