Gun-Free Zones Don't Deter Killers Determined To Bring Their Guns To Kill People

Kind of obvious, but it should be noted.

I don't get the whole argument. The one thing the gun-control people claim is that they're not gun grabbers, and they don't want to literally ban every gun in the US.

But... banning every gun in the US is the only possible gun-control measure that could plausibly achieve the results they seek. If there are any guns in the country, at all, presumably criminals will ignore laws against possessing them (as they currently ignore such laws) and also ignore laws against, well, shooting people with guns (several statutes cover this, pretty exhaustively, and yet they still ignore it).

So all gun control laws are aimed, essentially, at the one class of persons who have already demonstrated their intent to ignore gun laws. The laws are aimed at the very people who don't obey them, but it is taken as an article of faith that if you just disarm the people who aren't breaking the law, for some reason the criminally-minded will follow their lead.

Well, that's absurd, obviously. The only way that a criminal who is determined to get a gun and use it for a criminal purpose will not have a gun is if there are literally no guns to be had-- no guns to be stolen, no guns to be bought off Craigslist, no guns, period.

In that regime, I can see the argument that the 100% gun ban would greatly reduce gun violence. Although, of course, there are still lots of shootings in England, and lots of knifings, and in gun-control Germany there was an atrocious school-shooting a couple of years ago... but let's say that such a regime at least greatly reduces gun crimes.

Trouble is, that regime is precisely what gun-control people say they're not angling for.

I assume they're lying. But if we're going to "discuss" gun control, as the liberal party now insists, then let's discuss it honestly. If you want to greatly reduce gun crime, down to European levels (where they still have gun crime, and knife crime, too), you're going to have to outlaw almost all guns.

So is that your proposal? Put it on the table, straight and honest, and we'll kick it around.

But I'm really tired of this endless call for "discussions" about a problem where the moving parties are too cowardly and dishonest to state what they actually want to do, besides "discussing" things.

I like discussing things. I'm discussing things now.

What is the actual action sought? Only discussion? Obviously discussion alone accomplishes nothing.

So what do you want? Stop hiding behind the "discussions" euphemism. Let's talk about the action you actually seek.

Posted by: Ace at 08:09 PM



Comments

1 They won't come clean because what they desire is to take away every gun they find from every person, law abiding or not. I'm sure there are some that would want to go as far as even taking them away from the police and leaving them with bean bag guns or the equivalent.

Posted by: NJRob at December 14, 2012 08:12 PM (FVp26)

2 That's not their style.

Posted by: Bosk (D) at December 14, 2012 08:13 PM (n2K+4)

3 Sorry. The 2nd Amendment IS my hill to die on.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 14, 2012 08:13 PM (d0Dmj)

4 Fear is the mind killer

Posted by: Duke Leto DiCaprio at December 14, 2012 08:13 PM (I88Jc)

5 Todays perp had mommy issues and gun laws don't phase people with mommy issues.

Posted by: sTevo at December 14, 2012 08:14 PM (xtLs1)

6 Possession of cocaine is against the law.

That's why no one in America uses it.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:14 PM (fGw3R)

7 Well ONE MORE LAW WILL DO IT!

Just like one more stimulus will kickstart the economy....

Posted by: sven10077 at December 14, 2012 08:14 PM (LRFds)

8 well i'm glad was sentimental on that old thread so i wuldn't have to stick by it.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:15 PM (nqBYe)

9 So what do you want?

Was I not direct enough for you, you cornball blogger?

Posted by: Harry Belafonte at December 14, 2012 08:15 PM (O6q63)

10 A popular campaign is afoot in England to take away their subjects' permission (they have no rights) to carry knives.

It's called "Knives Take Lives."

The point is, totalitarians do not indulge in half-measures. There is no abjuration they will not eventually attempt to dispel.

If we were to mount a serious campaign against these totalitarians of the kind ace references, it should be of the form Obamacare has taken: mandate that everyone must own a handgun, or tax everyone if they should not.

It is as absurd as the leftist position. And it would be roundly criticized as absurd. But it would begin the Alinsky-style naming, blaming and shaming of these unbelievably fascist monsters who cloak themselves in the veneer of "reasonable conversation."

And it may move the Overton Window in the proper direction as well.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 14, 2012 08:15 PM (p5pG2)

11 "Well, that's absurd, obviously."

Dude, this is basically true of everything about Leftist politics right now and for the foreseeable future.

Doesn't seem to make a fucking bit of difference to them, though.

Posted by: BS Inc. at December 14, 2012 08:16 PM (eP0u9)

12 as all mass killings are caused by humans, we ban all humans.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:17 PM (nqBYe)

13 So what do you want? Stop hiding behind the "discussions" euphemism. Let's talk about the action you actually seek.


Of course the goal is the banning of all guns except in the hands of the government. Everything else is an utter lie.


The "discussion" that is sought is for all the gun loving wingnuts to prostrate themselves, admit their sins and atone for ever ever ever believing that the unwashed masses should have guns in the first place.





Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at December 14, 2012 08:17 PM (Gk3SS)

14 There are millions of guns and gun owners in the USA.

Do the math.

Guns are very weak at provoking people to kill.

If guns were good at it we would all be dead.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:17 PM (fGw3R)

15 10 Truman North,

Correct it is never the failure of the paradigm it is the failure of the paradigm to be inflicted hard enough....

hey Truman I was taught how to kill a man with a belt in boot camp....

if we remove thumbs people cannot engage in mischief.

"Thumb Control b/c it is time."

Posted by: sven10077 at December 14, 2012 08:17 PM (LRFds)

16 The absurdity of it all was what I was pre-emptivly trying to get at in my borderline-retard way earlier today when I was roundly criticized with my bad snark.

I apologize for those earlier remarks. I was neither clear enough in my intent, nor skillful enough to pull it off, nor possessed of sufficient decorum in light of the horrid events of today.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 14, 2012 08:18 PM (p5pG2)

17 The obvious answer to this problem is the expansion of the TSA. Nudi scanning of all school kids and teachers entering the building.

Posted by: Big Sis at December 14, 2012 08:19 PM (xtLs1)

18 A popular campaign is afoot in England to take away their subjects' permission (they have no rights) to carry knives.



It's called "Knives Take Lives."



Because the yobs will never beat each other with rocks or sticks or slash each other with broken bottles or go back to the tried and true beating each other to death with their fists and/or strangulation.




Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at December 14, 2012 08:19 PM (Gk3SS)

19 All celebrities across the USA are telling their bodyguards they are out of a job.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:19 PM (fGw3R)

20
Just kicking around a bush, but if we did kick that bush would we find:
1) a broken family
2) obsessive playing of violent video games
I've been following these shootings for quite awhile and it seems to me that the ONLY thing they have in common is that the shooters are morally reprehensible. Want to solve it, force everybody to go to church, by law. Just throwing that out there since everyone else is throwing out changing the 2nd amendment - why not fix it for good and change the 1st amendment while they're at it..

Posted by: doug at December 14, 2012 08:19 PM (uJ8q7)

21 what's really needed are brain bans,
it starts right there.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:20 PM (nqBYe)

22 That's why nobody should homeschool - your house is not a gun free zone

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 14, 2012 08:21 PM (RLTt1)

23 There are lots of unemployed moms and dads out there these days.

Have them stand post at schools, guarding the kids.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:22 PM (fGw3R)

24 The leftist wishes to abolish 1, 2, 4, 6, 9, and 10.

The normal American wants them strengthened.

There's your difference.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 14, 2012 08:22 PM (p5pG2)

25 20 Doug,

Doug in my darker hours I would suggest we push for a law that says if you can get 20 people to testify an enforced breathing cessation program on a reprobate was "justified" you walk....

I initially came up with this idea as a result of DC traffic patterns but am slowly finding it may have wider application.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 14, 2012 08:22 PM (LRFds)

26 The word must havecome down from the White House. Levin says the Hollyweirdos are burning up the tweetosphere with gun-banning garbage. Wonder if they'll give up their armed security guys?

Posted by: RushBabe at December 14, 2012 08:22 PM (tQHzJ)

27 The left will do as much as they can get away with. A little bit here, a little bit there. Tracking and limiting amount and types of ammunition. Gun free zones, smaller cartridges. They have the long game in mind. I don't think they are on the winning side of this issue, but as Rush says "They never stop."

Posted by: Eaton Cox at December 14, 2012 08:22 PM (q177U)

28 what's really needed are brain bans,
it starts right there.


Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:20 PM (nqBYe)



Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at December 14, 2012 08:22 PM (Gk3SS)

29 The only thing to even come close to stopping this is totalitarianism.

Posted by: Baldy at December 14, 2012 08:23 PM (tlg68)

30 The "discussion" that is sought is for all the gun loving wingnuts to prostrate themselves, admit their sins and atone for ever ever ever believing that the unwashed masses should have guns in the first place.


Yes, thank you. Yet another reason to go absurdist.

Battle the absurd wih the absurd.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 14, 2012 08:23 PM (p5pG2)

31 How many gun crimes are committed with a legally registered gun/owner compared to the unregistered/criminal gun owner? I have my guesses.

Posted by: Bosk (D) at December 14, 2012 08:23 PM (n2K+4)

32 21 ette,

San Francisco started a pilot program in the '40s....

we got Nanzi Pelousi as a result choose wisely.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 14, 2012 08:23 PM (LRFds)

33 >>>what's really needed are brain bans,

Workin' on it

Posted by: DoE at December 14, 2012 08:23 PM (RLTt1)

34 o man, prayers for the children.

families, the only thing that would make any sense is to know the man was a madman.
the father thing and a 'assistant' really fried me.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:23 PM (nqBYe)

35 29 Baldy,

Yup...it is why I am slowly arriving at the conclusion the nation needs to split.

FAR too many Americans are okay with despotism as long as "it is my despot."

The entire notion of our governing philosophy was supposed to be a no touch list and a Mexican standoff.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 14, 2012 08:24 PM (LRFds)

36
I would like to discuss discussing about discussions discussing discussing about discussions.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 14, 2012 08:24 PM (G9qZk)

37 Just kicking around a bush, but if we did kick that bush would we find:
1) a broken family
2) obsessive playing of role playing games

Posted by: Circa Twenty-five Years Ago at December 14, 2012 08:25 PM (RLTt1)

38 They want the guns out of the hands of the proles. They want it like NYC, where only celebrities or their security details, and the police, can legally carry.

I don't currently carry, but I am seriously considering applying....despite the wishes of the Philly government, PA is a shall-issue state and I could get one fairly easily. But I won't until I take a training course.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at December 14, 2012 08:25 PM (yJYwC)

39 circa or a seriously ill person.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:25 PM (nqBYe)

40 a 100% gun ban would cause an increase in some types of crime like rape.

Posted by: Bob Costas Elevator Shoes at December 14, 2012 08:26 PM (KHo8t)

41 The leftists want you to know that your betters have decided that you're too silly and incompetent to be allowed to own guns. Easier to push around that way.

Posted by: blackmamba at December 14, 2012 08:27 PM (C942P)

42 8 Damn Sockpuppet,

do yourself a favor GET THE permit now use your self-discipline to not carry until your are comfortable.

They will try to screw CCW carriers using this as an excuse....

"logic?'

"Never Heard of it" The MSM on the logic of CCW bans as a response to a non CCW holder nuking a school.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 14, 2012 08:28 PM (LRFds)

43 whenever liberals say they want to "discuss" something, you generally know where things're going.

we "just" want to do this.

then we "just" want to do this other thing.

etc.

now sometimes certain "moderate" solutions to problems can make sense but a lot of libs deride as "slippery slopes" what they eventually turn into real slopes.

Posted by: JDP at December 14, 2012 08:28 PM (60GaT)

44 So funny you say this. Last week, I wrote about what is meant by "having a discussion." That phrase is so dishonest. It's not having a discussion; it's someone wanting to get you to move just a little more to the left.

Real discussions would revolve around facts and involve honest debate. "Having a serious discussion" is invariably followed by some form of "We can't ignore it any longer. It's time to ban guns."

In other news, Mexico has extremely strict gun control laws. That hasn't helped a bit. Official counts put the death toll at 50-60K, but those numbers are based on inaccurate government reporting and omit some of the most dangerous Mexican states entirely. The real number of dead and missing is estimated to be closer to 250,000. Seriously.

And if you think the US somehow destroying all guns would stop cartels from getting their hands on weapons, you are seriously underestimating how entrenched they are in government. They still get guns by the bulk without our help.

Posted by: ElKomandante at December 14, 2012 08:28 PM (72QgB)

45 People are murdered every day. Look at the stats for Chicago.

If all the Chicago murders in 2012 happened in one day, what would Lefties say?

They would say it is Texas' fault.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:28 PM (fGw3R)

46 Over at the CSGV they were all standing up on their desks pumping their fists shouting "WE'RE RELEVANT AGAIN!".

Posted by: Lottaguns at December 14, 2012 08:28 PM (ThXYv)

47 They should ban weed and see how that works.

Posted by: Dr Spank at December 14, 2012 08:28 PM (b+jI9)

48 The way to reduce crime to European levels is to order police not to report crimes. Centralized control helps.

Posted by: Jean at December 14, 2012 08:29 PM (pawS5)

49 I blame the YouTube Video.

Posted by: susan Rice Stuck on the Last Crisis' Talking Points at December 14, 2012 08:29 PM (qs9G3)

50 In Marxist liberalese , "discussing " means " fundamentally tearing shit down"


Posted by: T.Hunter at December 14, 2012 08:29 PM (EZl54)

51 we know once guns are gone violence will be wiped from the face of the earth.



and rocks, knives, bats, bricks, ties, ropes, guillotines,bombs, fertilizers, poienous drugs, poisenous flora,
hands.






Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:30 PM (nqBYe)

52 If they could they would blame Sarah Palin.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:30 PM (fGw3R)

53 poisonous

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:30 PM (nqBYe)

54 I may try writing up an op Ed and send it to all my locals. Nice Saturday night activity tomorrow.

Posted by: Truman North (D) at December 14, 2012 08:30 PM (p5pG2)

55 gasoline, matches

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:31 PM (nqBYe)

56 Workplace violence has to go.

Posted by: Dr. Major Hassan, Soldier of Allah, and Army Psychiatrist at December 14, 2012 08:31 PM (qs9G3)

57 Got off the subway with a guy that I recognized from my neighborhood. Funny how I have never spoken to him, don't know his name or even where he lives and yet I know very well that he's a hardcore leftist. Exiting the train he was spouting off quite loudly to nobody in particular about the NRA and "prying lollipops from dead babies hands" and other nonsense. I crossed the street but I could still hear his outrageous outrage, passing a synogogue I heard "NRA!!" "NAZIS!!" From a block away I could still hear this guy. Somebody need to do a psych workup on this dude, I'm afraid he might go postal at NRA headquarters.

Posted by: Muggedbyreality at December 14, 2012 08:31 PM (DdwEb)

58 This is just another cultural "wedge" issue that liberals keep trotting out to "tag" conservatives as retrograde jerks who don't care about children being killed. Otherwise, all you get is:


1. Pass law banning gun ownership
2. ?????
3. Utopia!

Posted by: rockmom at December 14, 2012 08:32 PM (qe2/V)

59 gasoline, matches


Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:31 PM (nqBYe)



How dare you point out the actual facts about the largest mass murder in US history! What kind of gun loving nut are you, you nutty gun lover?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at December 14, 2012 08:32 PM (Gk3SS)

60 I emailed a snarky comment to a list of old hometown friends regarding the gun grabbing agenda of Obama, and one of my liberals on the list responded, "Please! The bodies aren't even cold! I haven't had time to grieve yet!"

Bitch, please.

A bunch of ghoulish gun grabbers rush out to politicize the death of 20 kids and I'm the insensitive one for noticing?

Fuck liberals.



Posted by: Warden at December 14, 2012 08:32 PM (fZhUL)

61 i know juts ban men,

and some women, ban some women, oh and some teens and maybe a few bad tykes.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:32 PM (nqBYe)

62 Molon labe, bitches.

Posted by: Andy at December 14, 2012 08:33 PM (OZPoa)

63 Hello. Just had to put my 2 cents in...Liberals created this not guns. They took morality and God out of the public school classrooms, they made it okay to kill unborn babies - desensitizing the public to "killing", unionized lefty Hollywood spits out violent and gory movies and television shows - and yes, the violent video games. If Hollywood wants a ban on guns, then they should ban guns and violence from being shown in their movies.

Posted by: Jenny at December 14, 2012 08:33 PM (P8K/P)

64
I was having the same "turn em all in" thoughts as Ace. The only way to get the results that they want - see, for example, Australia.

Also, what do all of these killers seem to have in common? 20 something male loners. Perhaps we have some kind of cultural crisis with regard to boys and young men? Dare that be spoken lest we upturn the rocks of feminism or libertinism?

Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 14, 2012 08:33 PM (Nfpnr)

65 alex, i suck, my brain is now full of things that Could kill someone.
Of course they'd need an actual person Doing the actual deed, but well things,, things..

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:34 PM (nqBYe)

66 This one nutcase probably did for me and my cause what I couldn't do with 2000 guns to Mexican Drug Runners. I'm going to have to think further outside the box.

Posted by: Eric Holder at December 14, 2012 08:34 PM (qs9G3)

67 Dr. Amy Bishop.

MA Democrat politicians.

Combine and stir.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:34 PM (fGw3R)

68 >> How dare you point out the actual facts about the largest mass murder in US history!

Ahh, yes. I used that example mere minutes ago talking with the Mrs.

Posted by: Andy at December 14, 2012 08:34 PM (OZPoa)

69 The school ? Gun free zone.

Concealed carry by employees ? not permitted

State firearms purchase laws?

No state permit is required for the purchase of rifles or
shotguns. A permit to carry, permit to sell handguns, or handgun
eligibility certificate is required to purchase a pistol or revolver.

No state permit is required for the purchase of rifles or
shotguns. A permit to carry, permit to sell handguns, or handgun
eligibility certificate is required to purchase a pistol or revolver.

It is unlawful to sell or permanently transfer a handgun to any
person who is forbidden to possess a handgun, or to a person under 21.
No
person, firm, or corporation shall sell or transfer any pistol or
revolver unless an application provided by the Commissioner of Public
Safety is filled out. There is a 2 week waiting period from the date of
the application.

A handgun eligibility certificate, valid for five years, shall be
issued by the Commissioner of Public Safety within 60 days after
receipt of the National Criminal History Records check from the FBI to a
person who may lawfully possess a handgun, who completes a handgun
safety course, is fingerprinted, and pays a fee.
The eligibility certificate entitles a person to purchase, but not to carry, a handgun.


The commissioner must be notified within two business days of an address change.


Gun Control FAILED .



again.

Posted by: T.Hunter at December 14, 2012 08:35 PM (EZl54)

70 Banks have armed guards. Commercial jet liners often have plain clothes armed agents on board.

Why not put an armed cop - or several of them - at schools?

Posted by: Unemployed since February at December 14, 2012 08:36 PM (06qTP)

71 cars, people run over people with their cars.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:36 PM (nqBYe)

72 Larry Correia is a science-fiction author I follow on Facebook. He was once a firearms instructor in the state of Utah. He posted a comment on his wall today that in Utah legally-carried firearms are allowed in schools, and he used to train school employees free of charge.

Oddly enough I can't think of a single mass shooting in Utah, despite what is likely a higher-than-the-national-average number of guns per citizen . . .

Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at December 14, 2012 08:36 PM (rKvZm)

73 Pillows! ban pillows

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:37 PM (nqBYe)

74 So, I get another 15 minutes of fame? Awesome! What a fantastic day this has been!

Posted by: Jim Brady at December 14, 2012 08:37 PM (fZhUL)

75 Liberals created this not guns.
...

Who killed more American children today? The school shooter, or abortionists?

Posted by: Methos at December 14, 2012 08:37 PM (hO9ad)

76 School Marshals. Period.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 14, 2012 08:37 PM (MPjT8)

77 D#16 Truman North, that was one of the best, clearest and most gracious apologies I have ever read. I did not see the offense, but as proper and fine as that was, it ought to be accepted.

Posted by: Dianna at December 14, 2012 08:38 PM (AMeKV)

78 Oh man, I hope they try!

2014 and 2016 will be a clean fucking sweep!

Posted by: EC at December 14, 2012 08:38 PM (doBIb)

79
Isn't a porous 2,000 mileborder with a corrupt, violent third world country antithetical to the goal of closely regulated anything?
When do we get to talk about that?

Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 14, 2012 08:38 PM (Nfpnr)

80 I'll be selling blue helmets on E-Bay.

Posted by: Butters at December 14, 2012 08:39 PM (NIZHJ)

81 Because the yobs will never beat each other with rocksor sticks or slash each other with broken bottles or go back to the tried and true beating each other to death with their fists and/or strangulation.

I need to get my butt to the pick-n-pull and get a set of truck axle springs before they are all gone. Mighty fine swords and crossbow members can be hammered out from tempered spring steel.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 14, 2012 08:39 PM (d3eIr)

82 Leftists are Hive People.

They squeal about individuality, but in truth they want control over everything around them.

They can not ever accept the notion that an armed law-abiding citizen is a force for peace and safety and tranquility.

Posted by: eman at December 14, 2012 08:39 PM (fGw3R)

83 I was actually going to go to the shooting range here in midtown Manhattan and ask for their help in getting a license.

Freaky.

Monday morning, 9AM sharp.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 14, 2012 08:40 PM (XkWWK)

84 60 I emailed a snarky comment to a list of old hometown friends regarding the gun grabbing agenda of Obama, and one of my liberals on the list responded, "Please! The bodies aren't even cold! I haven't had time to grieve yet!"

Bitch, please.

A bunch of ghoulish gun grabbers rush out to politicize the death of 20 kids and I'm the insensitive one for noticing?

Fuck liberals.


Amen to that
Listening to my mom and her friends (genetic democrats) talking about this I overheard "they should rent them like bowling shoes"

FUCKING PRICELESS STUPIDITY

Posted by: Lurkasaurus at December 14, 2012 08:40 PM (Dz2WS)

85 "
Who killed more American children today? The school shooter, or abortionists?"

can we just not

i mean i'm pro-life but obviously i understand why people, even people against abortion, have a bigger emotional reaction to this. we could get into the weeds of why exactly that is but it strikes me as pretty normal.

Posted by: JDP at December 14, 2012 08:41 PM (60GaT)

86 we do have an issue with the disregard of the value of life

that's the issue.

in this case i believe we had an ill man that couldn't see an issue . loughner,
would dahmer have stopped without a sharp blade?

is it dahmer or the blade?

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:41 PM (nqBYe)

87 No italics? Pixy banned everything but plain text?

Posted by: Lurkasaurus at December 14, 2012 08:42 PM (Dz2WS)

88 It started with the smoking bans. Pushing the envelope to see how far they can push people into compliance. There was a vid of Holder addressing the NAACP in DC and said they would enact gun bans the same way they did with smoking bans, a little at a time. Once the door opens for concessions from pro-gun lobby, watch out.

Posted by: Deli LLama at December 14, 2012 08:42 PM (lGu1O)

89 78 Oh man, I hope they try!

2014 and 2016 will be a clean fucking sweep!
Posted by: EC at December 14, 2012 08:38 PM (doBIb)



That's what we all said about 2012 after Fast and Furious and Benghazi. I expect nothing anymore except a one way ticket to a gulag.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 14, 2012 08:42 PM (XkWWK)

90 CockNN was more worried about how much Obama "cried" than the real story.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 14, 2012 08:43 PM (MPjT8)

91 The one thing these urinal lickers on the left never want to acknowledge is that guns are the great equalizer for weaker members of society--women, older people, people who aren't physically imposing.

What's a divorced woman supposed to do when her crazed, wife beating ex-husband threatens to kill her for leaving him? Lock the doors and hope for the best? Leave town and assume a new identity?

Leftists act like they're for empowering the weak, but they're really about making them dependent.

Posted by: Warden at December 14, 2012 08:43 PM (fZhUL)

92 JJ, probably be cheaper to buy a second home in rural MS and get a permit there

Posted by: Jean at December 14, 2012 08:44 PM (pawS5)

93 I'm afraid he might go postal at NRA headquarters.Posted by: Muggedbyreality at December 14, 2012 08:31 PM (DdwEb)------Not the best place. Of course, you wouldn't have though the Fort Hood military base was the idealspot to pull off a massacre either.

Posted by: blackmamba at December 14, 2012 08:44 PM (C942P)

94 The only choice one can have it to abort your baby, there is no other choices in life allowed, just what the state/collective/world says. /So says the left.

Posted by: Trevor (@tjexcite) at December 14, 2012 08:44 PM (Ea64Y)

95 warden, they ar eto hope the police arrive in time. and hope they were able to actually have time to call.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:44 PM (nqBYe)

96
#60, "I haven't had time to grieve yet!"?
Warden, who did they lose today? Family member? Coworker? Close friend?
Yet another casualty of the 24/7/365 1000channel "information" connected age: every f*cking body thinks everything happens directly TO THEM.
So I guess it logically follows, to them at least, that something MUST BE DONE so they won't suffer like this ever again.

Posted by: barbarausa at December 14, 2012 08:45 PM (WWeoI)

97 I seek crazy person control. This kid had diagnoses that put him in that category of mental illness that is on the spectrum of schizophrenia and may well have been schiziphrenia all along. He had autistic behaviours and an unspecified personality disorder. - he has compulsions and does not relate to people or his environment in a normal way.

There was no safe place to put him. I would not be shocked to find his mother had purchased those weapons because he had a size and power advantage and uncontrollable rages and/or had expressed murderous intention beforehand. This is partly her fault for not keeping deadly weapons secure from her unstable son. But the truth is she would have had little assistance in assisting him, at his age, and no real means of self defense without weapons.

Group home, constant monitoring, no access to weapons purchase (immediate, upon diagnosis, mandatory reporting for schiz. spectrum disease or severe personality disorder, only due process review can restore) and/or permanent removal from society if follow-up and monitoring is not maintained.

Posted by: SarahW at December 14, 2012 08:45 PM (LYwCh)

98 How about a 60 yr old convenience store owner in a bad neighborhood? Hey, a couple of hoods walk in carrying baseball bats and demanding cash ... fuck him, I guess.

Sorry, pal. Guns are just too dangerous to allow you to have one. Hand over the money, old man, and hope the goons don't beat you just for fun.


Posted by: Warden at December 14, 2012 08:46 PM (fZhUL)

99 Klebold and Harris in the Columbine high school shooting were both, by the report of friends of each of the two, on prescribed prescription psych meds. That worked out great, didn't it? Calmed both of 'em right down. Made them into pillars of the community.

I'm not a big believer in passing new laws, but I do believe in disclosure laws.

Right now, as it stands, people who commit violent crimes are only occasionally tested to show what substances (legal or illegal) they had been using in the run-up to the criminal act.

Lab analysis technology gets cheaper every year. Let's start taking blood samples routinely and universally as part of the arrest and booking process. Let's then tabulate and publicize the results in the cases of those found guilty by juries. Put the information in the FBI's annual national crime reports.

And we might think about putting those disclosures into the package inserts of psych meds. Right now, there are mandatory "black box" warnings about suicidal ideation in some of those meds.

If such stats were collected, they would very likely show that for some meds, the black box warning needs to indicate not only suicide risk, but also risk of harming or killing others. (You can bet that Big Pharma would be in no hurry to sign on to this rule. To hell with them.)

Posted by: torquewrench at December 14, 2012 08:47 PM (ymG7s)

100 Also, what do all of these killers seem to have in common? 20 something male loners. Perhaps we have some kind of cultural crisis with regard to boys and young men? Dare that be spoken lest we upturn the rocks of feminism or libertinism?


Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 14, 2012 08:33 PM (Nfpnr)


No shit. We have ruined two generations of men. My son had female teachers who did not even try to disguise their disdain for boys. I have done everything I can to give him a solid grounding as a man and as a Christian. But I know he faces a world that is more and more hostile to him. I feel blessed that he is a musician and that field is still a meritocracy where talent and not gender matter. He is about the same age as Adam Lanza, so this has shaken me quite a bit.


Posted by: rockmom at December 14, 2012 08:48 PM (qe2/V)

101 i dunno i think grieving is normal, it Is painful, they are children that should never have seen or experienced anything as this.


Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:48 PM (nqBYe)

102 "Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace... Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant." James Madison

Posted by: Lurkasaurus at December 14, 2012 08:48 PM (XYpsB)

103 Posted by: barbarausa

I'm with you. What a ridiculous, self centered, sissified comment. In other words, typical liberal male.

He's all up on Facebook saying how he was just so anxious and upset waiting for his kids to come home from school so he could hug them!!!11ELEVEN!

Whatever, man.

I've got kids, too. And yeah, I though a lot about how awful it would be to lose them in some senseless massacre. But this isn't MY personal tragedy. It's horrible, of course, but I don't need a grief counselor.

Posted by: Warden at December 14, 2012 08:49 PM (fZhUL)

104 People are right -- looking around the blogosphere, leftards are going nuts.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 14, 2012 08:50 PM (0Ufr+)

105 i mean i'm pro-life but obviously i understand why people, even people
against abortion, have a bigger emotional reaction to this.


That's obvious enough. Anyone old enough to discuss abortion isn't going to be subject to it.

I'm just saying the hypocrasy should be thrown in the face of every liberal who tries to use this incident to grab guns for-the-good-of-the-children to blow up the discussion until they move on to their next shiny thing.

Mainly Obama, but it's suitable for any of them.

Posted by: Methos at December 14, 2012 08:50 PM (hO9ad)

106 Before firearms were invented, the world was like totally mellow. If guns had been available to the Roman Legions, Atila's Huns, or the European Crusaders, then somebody could have gotten hurt.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at December 14, 2012 08:50 PM (2obW7)

107 #97 +100


I've been racking my brain trying to imagine why a woman my age living in a sleepy small town would need to have two handguns and a Bushmaster rifle. She must have feared her son. Or else she was a complete idiot and bought them for him thinking he could blow off steam at the shooting range.

Posted by: rockmom at December 14, 2012 08:52 PM (qe2/V)

108
103 warden--I cried today, and I thought of my kids. But thank God and everything else I can think of, my kids didn't go to kindergarten today in Newtown. THOSE people are GRIEVING. I am saddened, upset, angry.
and safe, as is my family. Prayers for those who suffered today and will continue to suffer.
Annoyance toward those who sit with their organic soy latte on facebook ponitificating through their "grief".

Posted by: barbarausa at December 14, 2012 08:53 PM (WWeoI)

109
No shit. We have ruined two generations of men. My son had female teachers who did not even try to disguise their disdain for boys. I have done everything I can to give him a solid grounding as a man and as a Christian. But I know he faces a world that is more and more hostile to him. I feel blessed that he is a musician and that field is still a meritocracy where talent and not gender matter. He is about the same age as Adam Lanza, so this has shaken me quite a bit.

__________________________________

Yeah - I don't think that denying that boys are different than girls and have different developmental needs for fear that they might get ahead of girls isa great idea.
You know - the same people who won't leave the Boy Scouts alone.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 14, 2012 08:54 PM (Nfpnr)

110 Another killer hopped up on SSRI's.

Posted by: Butters at December 14, 2012 08:56 PM (NIZHJ)

111 12
as all mass killings are caused by humans, we ban all humans.
Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:17 PM (nqBYe)

Ahem?

Posted by: SMOD 2012 at December 14, 2012 08:56 PM (idRzK)

112
109, some people have gone way beyond thinking boys will get ahead of girls--there are no fixed gender roles, remember? All children should be encouraged to play with all toys, particularly across "traditional" lines, because while sex is biological, we are our own genders, and our gender identity and gender expression are very different things from simple biological chromosomal sex.

WAY beyond, and for a long time now.

Posted by: barbarausa at December 14, 2012 08:58 PM (WWeoI)

113 Most of these cases could be dealt with by locking up crazy people at the first signs up their insanity... like we used to do. Crazy people control is the solution.

Posted by: red at December 14, 2012 08:59 PM (7us0J)

114 92 JJ, probably be cheaper to buy a second home in rural MS and get a permit there
Posted by: Jean at December 14, 2012 08:44 PM (pawS5)


I wouldn't mind, but my NYU professor wife might.

Anyway, I'm going to exercise my 2nd amendment rights, NYC or no NYC.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 14, 2012 09:00 PM (XkWWK)

115 To really work on the problem: let's all agree that violent criminals should be executed. Give them their day in court, a good lawyer, but don't let them out. Don't give them life in jail. Give them a speedy trial, and give the rest of us justice.

Two results:
1 - cull the gene pool of violent mental defectives. Odds are, a guy who murders children has genetic damage in his brain. Natural selection works.
2 - deterrent factor. Public executions would get great ratings, beating out every other reality show. Make mass-murder seem unpleasant and uncool.

Posted by: dustydog at December 14, 2012 09:01 PM (K550W)

116 >>> Most of these cases could be dealt with by locking up crazy people at the first signs up their insanity... like we used to do. Crazy people control is the solution.

Careful what you wish for. I could easily see Conservatism added to the DSM-V

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 14, 2012 09:03 PM (RLTt1)

117 So here's how it would work in an America that actually took the Constitution seriously.

The Supreme Court would have heard the historic cases in which it was argued that the involuntary commitment of the mentally ill was un-Constitutional.

That Supreme Court -- again in a hypothetical alternate reality of obeying the Constitution -- would have then announced that since the Constitution is silent on the issue, never mentioning the question of insanity, the question is thus reserved to the individual States to decide for themselves under the Tenth Amendment.

Some States, such as my current state, the People's Soviet Socialist Republic of Commiefornia, would no doubt have ended up locally decreeing that insane people should not be in asylums, and that they should be either on the streets or in the state legislature.

Other States would presumably impose their own versions of mental health policy, including ones as "liberating" as Commiefornia's, and also including ones which went the other way and retained involuntary institutionalization of the insane.

After a couple of decades of mixed policy, it would have become clear to all what worked and what didn't work, and what would by now be obvious is that clinically crazy people belong in the nut hut. It's not only safer and better for them, but for all of the public as a whole.

Not least because there would be fewer instances of obviously insane people flipping out and going on murder sprees, in states where those people were securely locked away. There would also be far less many schizophrenic so-called homeless in such states.

It would be a clear expression of Brandeisian "laboratories of democracy" at work.

Instead of the central dirigisme we have suffered under, where the Omnipotent Imperial Capitol dictates uniform policy by decree across all fifty states simultaneously.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 14, 2012 09:03 PM (ymG7s)

118 i'm more comfortable supporting the death penalty cuz of, you know, justice than "culling the gene pool" or w/e

can't tell if that's a joke post

Posted by: JDP at December 14, 2012 09:04 PM (60GaT)

119 Not to mention that locking up people at the 'first signs of' mental illness enforces conformity while discouraging seeking help for lesser treatable problems, like depression.

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 14, 2012 09:05 PM (RLTt1)

120 "It would be a clear expression of Brandeisian "laboratories of democracy" at work."

i think you're giving too much credit to "what works" though. i can just as easily see the lax states in your alternate universe holding to "it's just wrong" as their reason, for this and a lot of other things.

then again i'm not big on federalism as panacea

Posted by: JDP at December 14, 2012 09:06 PM (60GaT)

121
109, some people have gone way beyond thinking boys will get ahead of girls--there are no fixed gender roles, remember? All children should be encouraged to play with all toys, particularly across "traditional" lines, because while sex is biological, we are our own genders, and our gender identity and gender expression are very different things from simple biological chromosomal sex.

WAY beyond, and for a long time now.
__________________________________

Except that's not how it works in practice. When the boys act like boys and don't conform to the gender neutral ideology, they are deemed to have sinned against the ideology. They can't reexamine the ideology because they couldn't stand the dissonance and the whole ediface would fall down. At the same time they're giving all manner of encouragement to the boys female peers with the stated or tacit idea that they are superior because they're conforming to the expectations of the ideologues.
The whole cultural method of socializing boys into men was scrapped without a thought and now we blame inanimate objects for the ill effects.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 14, 2012 09:06 PM (Nfpnr)

122 2 - deterrent factor. Public executions would get great ratings,
beating out every other reality show. Make mass-murder seem unpleasant
and uncool.


That may negate some incentive for these particular cases, but I don't think it quite rises to 'deterrence'. You can't really threaten someone out of murder-suicide.

Maybe we need to romanticize seppuku or self-immolation.

Just trying to think out of the box.

Posted by: Methos at December 14, 2012 09:08 PM (hO9ad)

123 was McFay crazy?
or just evil?
Hitler?
Mussolini?
Stalin?
Pol Pot?
Saddam?
Ahmahdinejad?

you know what Might have saved people from Some of these fiends?
guns and a will to use em.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 09:08 PM (nqBYe)

124 some

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 09:09 PM (nqBYe)

125 When I was a classroom teacher years ago, I kept pepper spray in my desk drawer at school. Probably should have worried a student would get it, but they knew if they came within an inch behind my desk they were in trouble. Anyway, why can't we let every classroom teacher have a taser. Keep it in a locked drawer with a key around the wrist.

Posted by: dixiegal at December 14, 2012 09:09 PM (d8l76)

126 Other States would presumably impose their own versions of mental health
policy, including ones as "liberating" as Commiefornia's, and also
including ones which went the other way and retained involuntary
institutionalization of the insane.


With optional 'internal deportation' to California or similar state, perhaps

Posted by: Methos at December 14, 2012 09:10 PM (hO9ad)

127 i have to go to bed.
prayers for the children.

the left?, heck no answer to their ideas.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 09:10 PM (nqBYe)

128 How many of you wish you had been there? With a gun?

I do.


Posted by: Holger (D) at December 14, 2012 09:10 PM (MHk3m)

129 I just did a quick Internet search and data mined the U.S. Census Bureau's statistics for deaths in 2007 (the most recent year for which I could find stats). Firearms were the cause of 397 deaths of children from birth to 14 years of age, including accidents, suicides and murder. To put this in perspective, 892 children in the same age group were murdered by "other and unspecified means and their sequelae." Both numbers are tragic but the "other and unspecified" category accounted for more than twice the deaths. That same year there were 1,208,540 abortions.

I'm wondering where the liberal outrage is over the latter? After all, it's for the children.

Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit S.O.B. at December 14, 2012 09:10 PM (Mwakv)

130 holger yeah.

Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 09:11 PM (nqBYe)

131 Please. SSRIs don't hop people up.

These shooters are psychopaths. Millions of people take antidepressants everyday and don't go on a shooting spree.

Posted by: Sunny at December 14, 2012 09:11 PM (Xnxty)

132 >>2 - deterrent factor. Public executions would get great ratings,
beating out every other reality show. Make mass-murder seem unpleasant and uncool.

Lobotomies. Cheap and local. Just release them after and make them work as greeters at Walmart so you can point them out to your kids, who will then ask why they're retarded and drooling, and you can say that's what happens to bad men.

Plus, you can kick em in the nads whenever.
"Hi I'm Ted Bundy. Welcome to Walmart"
*kick*

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 14, 2012 09:13 PM (RLTt1)

Posted by: Holger (D) at December 14, 2012 09:13 PM (MHk3m)

134 Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 09:08 PM (nqBYe)

Most of those guys were opposed with guns, just not enough internally (how many assassination plots were there against Hitler?). And guns wouldn't help you much against McVeigh's truck bomb (ban fertilizer!) if you didn't know he was coming.

A better example was that would-be mass shooter in Denver (I think) around the time of the VT shootings who walked into a church and was put down by an armed security guard. Which most people forget because guess which one got the media attention.

Posted by: Methos at December 14, 2012 09:17 PM (hO9ad)

135 Insanity is pretty much an unsolvable problem in a humane society, and in spite of what the left thinks, I am a humane person. I'm not happy incarcerating the many, many somewhat disturbed people who will never kill anyone and are much happier being paranoid somewhere on their own than locked up. Not to mention we can't afford the country club surroundings that my conscious says is required if we lock up people against their will. I don't see any way out of it except to accept occaisional days like today.

Those who say all we need to do is 'check they are taking their meds' have never tried doing it. Lots of psych drugs make people feel like crap, they're usually not really 'well' as we understand it even with the drugs, and after awhile they say, 'What the hell,' and toss 'em. My sister's a shrink and she got out of that specialty after a few years because it was breaking her heart. There's just no happy ending for some people. It sucks. But it is.

Posted by: Pentan at December 14, 2012 09:18 PM (SHpwo)

136 We would be safer if the government supplied guns to every citizen.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 14, 2012 09:20 PM (QupBk)

137
131: The problems occur when people go off SSRIs.

Posted by: RokShox at December 14, 2012 09:23 PM (8MMMw)

138 Ummm....I'm Pentangle. I don't know what happened to my name. Also, I'm not a child-hating monster. I love kids. I'm sick about what happened. But, as engineers say, "Some problems are not trivial."

Posted by: Pentangle at December 14, 2012 09:26 PM (SHpwo)

139 121, I agree. But the whole gender thing is part and parcel of government schooling, where no one learns anything useful anymore, but gets a day full of "socialization".
And everything is special, except for what used to be called normal, which is now demonized.

Posted by: barbarausa at December 14, 2012 09:31 PM (WWeoI)

140 I believe a certain amount of this can be attributed to how we socialize boys these days. Boys tend to run in packs. If they are raised to respect their elders, then the elders can act as a check on them. We don't raise kids to respect their elders. We spend a lot of time telling them how much smarter they are than the adults. We try to restrict them from physical games. Instead, we expect them to blow off steam playing video games. There's a reason why young men make good soldiers.

Posted by: notsothoreau at December 14, 2012 09:36 PM (5HBd1)

141 I was on SSRIs for awhile (years). After I got back from Iraq (major depression). They don't hop you up, but they can definitely deafen you emotionally. Sometimes I felt like a sociopath because of all the detachment.

Posted by: Echo at December 14, 2012 09:42 PM (ztCj0)

142 The only way to enforce a gun ban is at gunpoint. As Bugs Bunny might say "Ironic, ain't it?"

Posted by: Hutch at December 14, 2012 09:51 PM (B852i)

143 Gun bans have to work. I mean, anti-marijuana laws people from breaking those laws and smoking pot. Right?

Posted by: Faith+1 at December 14, 2012 09:53 PM (flDfW)

144 argh, missed a key word. "...laws STOPPED people..."

I hate blowing a good snark.

Posted by: Faith+1 at December 14, 2012 09:54 PM (flDfW)

145 http://youtu.be/C0M62mHQ1EA

You Tube on the DC "Snipers"

Yeah mr. Moose embodies good benign government.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 14, 2012 09:56 PM (LRFds)

146 Killings are against the law - wtf dude!

Posted by: Rob in Katy at December 14, 2012 10:14 PM (PiTBB)

147 Bonny and Clyde got their BARs from a National Guard armory. Unless the government disarms, it can't disarm criminals. Of course, if the government does disarm, it won't be able to disarm the criminals. and the criminals will then become the government.

Posted by: Ken at December 14, 2012 10:17 PM (3ar4L)

148 Ken @ 147: How would we tell the difference?

Posted by: butch at December 14, 2012 10:59 PM (nK2Sx)

149 On one level, the Lib response about not wanting to ban every gun, but only to ban the "gun culture" makes sense. In other words, if society doesn't present you with the option of thinking about shooting a whole bunch of people, then I'd wager you're less likely to come up with it on your own.

But the Libs don't want to accept that the logical result of that argument is to call for bans on things like violent movies (e.g., Batman), violent tv shows (e.g., HBO), violent video games, etc. So they blame the gun itself for the "culture" they're afraid to criticize. And we get legal crap.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 14, 2012 11:08 PM (Y5I9o)

150 12 as all mass killings are caused by humans, we ban all humans.
Posted by: ette at December 14, 2012 08:17 PM (nqBYe)


"No man, no problem."
~ Stalin

Posted by: rickl at December 14, 2012 11:19 PM (sdi6R)

151 "Oddly enough I can't think of a single mass shooting in Utah"

Trolley Square in SLC, 2007-ish?, 4 dead I think.

Posted by: Knemon at December 14, 2012 11:37 PM (nl1/0)

152 @125
When I was a classroom teacher years ago, I kept pepper spray in my desk
drawer at school. Probably should have worried a student would get it,
but they knew if they came within an inch behind my desk they were in
trouble. Anyway, why can't we let every classroom teacher have a taser.
Keep it in a locked drawer with a key around the wrist.

I had a homeroom teacher freshman year of HS who carried a Marine KBAR in his briefcase. On our last day of class that year, he laid into us about how soft we were and how in 1943, he lied about his age and enlisted in the Marines. he was fortunate enough to only fight in one battle before VJ day. He was not so fortunate that the battle was on Iwo Jima, where he was one of a handful of Marines in his company to walk back onto a landing craft under his own power.

It was a powerful thing to hear at age 14, and 26 years later, I still remember it. He went on to fight in Korea and Vietnam, retired from the Marines and became a (legendary) teacher at my HS. He was a bad motherfucker well into his 60s, and woe to the football player or punk who took him on (a few did).

Posted by: elliot at December 14, 2012 11:47 PM (blkVM)

153 This is just another cultural "wedge" issue that liberals keep trotting
out to "tag" conservatives as retrograde jerks who don't care about
children being killed.


It's more insidious than that.

It's about an organization that wants to convince us that it's a good idea for them to have all the guns and for us to have none.

I'll agree to limit myself to whatever weaponry the State grants itself the authority to possess.

It appears, however, that the State acknowledges no limit on the weaponry it deploys.

Bastiat was right 150 years ago -- they want us to believe that they, these purported agents of the State, are made of a finer clay than the rest of humanity.

Posted by: Phinn at December 14, 2012 11:57 PM (oFH2D)

154 Ace: gun control will never work, because guns are pretty easy to make. Peasants in Afghanistan have been known to make working AK-47 assault rifles with hand tools... now imagine a skilled mechanic in the USA with a shop full of power tools. Heck, I'll bet someone could make an AK-47 out of a shovel. (See what I did there? Yeah, I read AoSHq.)

Also, I highly recommend you read a book called The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy. It basically shows that violence tracks with cultural factors and the laws don't reduce violence. In short, England had a low violent crime rate; then England banned guns; then England had a low violent crime rate. Therefore the gun ban caused a low violent crime rate...? Yeah, not so much. (And their crime rate has been rising. And violent home invasions are much more common there than in the USA.)

I'm pretty sure you don't believe in any of the stuff you listed, but man, I hate to even see you listing it.

Posted by: mr_jack at December 15, 2012 02:20 AM (P0N+7)

155 You cannot win the argument about guns when <a href=http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2012/12/vultures.html><b>your opposite number is unwilling to present his true agenda.</b></a>

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at December 15, 2012 05:59 AM (GCzY/)

156 Guns can be perfectly benign. They can also be deadly weapons of mass destruction. So it is with crazy people.

We already have rules about gun ownership, but we have no restrictions on crazy people.

Society defaults to "solving" the role of guns in mass murders. Bupkus is said about restrictions on the crazy people who enable the gun's role.

When we hear the argument that Cho/Loughner/Lanza ought to have had their freedom to kill restricted, we'll have heard the start of a serious discussion about attempts to stop mass shootings. By crazy people.

Posted by: General Zod at December 15, 2012 06:29 AM (U0AqT)

157 In France guns are forbidden. Yet there are murders with AK47 every week, and police searches turn up Uzis, Glock, AK47, shotguns etc everyday or so.
But dont worry, victims are still defenseless.

Posted by: LMAE at December 15, 2012 07:51 AM (AshUY)

158 Bans stop nothing.

There is a ban against guns on school grounds

There is a ban against murder.

There used to be a ban against selling liquor

None of these bans prevented anything except among those who are law abiding

Posted by: Dan Kauffman at December 15, 2012 08:20 AM (BQy/7)

159
Here in Michigan we don't just dicuss things- we get them done. Hours before the shooting the Michigan legislature passed a law that enables teachers to concealed carry (with additional training and a string of other steps)- but the MEA President took the shooting to launch a major attack against this pro-2nd amendment legislation and is calling on the Governor of Michigan to vteo this legislation.
Let's not talk and discuss anymore- here in Michigan we need your help. Call our Governor's office at (517) 373-3400 or fax at (517) 335-6863 and do more than just talk about making a difference- help make a difference.
Also read my blog post on this subject-
http://tinyurl.com/c4mobqw

Posted by: A Conservative Teacher at December 15, 2012 09:37 AM (idosS)

160 gun-free zone = defenseless potential victim zone

Posted by: Tours Lepanto Vienna at December 15, 2012 11:15 AM (r8VSw)

161 The political elite live in a very insular world, dominated by ignorance. Most of these clowns could not tell you the difference between automatic and semi-automatic or what constitutes a weapon as an "assault weapon". All weapons when used during an assault could be termed as such. The sheep are easily influenced by terminology.

Posted by: fred herman at December 15, 2012 12:14 PM (HYFCt)

162 The vast majority of these tragedies
happen in a highly select few places called "gun free zones". Banning
Gun free zones (not guns) would seem a prudent place to start reducing this sort of tragic event. The
uncertainty of having some unidentified, but armed, citizen take them
out before they can sow their tragic statement might give the insane
enough pause to find another path out of their tragic fixation. Put
another way -- the certainty of knowing that so many unprotected
innocent folks are to be found in gun free zones makes it easy for the
mentally flawed to start down the path of administering last rights to
the innocent unknowns before taking their own tragically flawed life.
Mandating low hanging (gun free zone) fruit for broken minds that don't
know how to reach very high is not wise policy.

Posted by: Seipherd at December 15, 2012 12:49 PM (BoLlc)

163 The victim disarmament crowd wants discussion because they have lost this already.

"Discussion" does us no good.

Continuing to make it clear to even the dumbest Democrat that victim disarmament is a third rail that they do not want to pee on is the only thing we need to be doing.

Posted by: Kristophr at December 15, 2012 01:06 PM (wYVte)

164 Time for the Republicans to introduce federal legislation outlawing 'gun free zones' at government facilities, including military bases (see Ft. Hood).

Will our brave and freedom-loving heroes do that? Who can doubt...?

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at December 15, 2012 01:43 PM (2VCZA)

165 Ace -
All the facts in the world about gun free zones means jack sh*t with this administration and now the representative saying that the NRA should be outlawed.

The problem - simply - is that liberalism let the "autistic" kids out onto the streets instead of keeping them institutionalized and now? They have access to their mom's legally purchased gun.

1. in this case the kid wasn't diagnosed or was on meds but wasn't put into a special hospital for autistic kids (and for years before they were "autistic" they were called a different word that is now banned in cities by mayors).

2. where was the father? the brother was in NJ. So it seems that something was going on and the mother, with no male help in the house felt a gun was needed for protection, for her and her autistic son.

3. autistic son takes legally bought gun and kills kids making it a prime issue for the left when the real issue should be the autistic kid and keeping THEM off the street and away from the general populace.

It started with Kennedy - the loosening of the laws to intern those that we see living on the street and pushing shopping carts.

Posted by: kay at December 15, 2012 02:01 PM (7Fmw0)

166 What do I want?

A new protocol, arrived at by the news profession, for reporting (glamorizing) these killers, per the suggestions of this forensic psychiatrist: http://tinyurl.com/c5hvuu6

There's a reason all these killers attack and dress and talk in the same way; they see what fame the one previous killer attained.

Posted by: PJ at December 15, 2012 02:05 PM (ZWaLo)

167 took thepolice an hour to arrive according to the mail-

Posted by: guy falle at December 15, 2012 02:15 PM (lB/5N)

168
There is no defense against a crazy person intent on mass murder. Any advanced civilization is based on trust. That's why we can live in houses with windows, unlike the fort-like homes in the Middle East. That's why women can go out in public. That's why we can order things online and be very confident we'll get them from some faceless entity on the Internet.
In such a civilization, there will always be crazy and evil people who violate that trust for their crazy and evil goals. We can prosecute those who survive, but that's about it.
Banning guns will not work. There are three hundred million guns in America, most of which can be used for over a century without wearing out. Of course, the criminals will not give up their guns in a general ban because they need them to commit crimes.
Furthermore, guns are easy to make. Anyone with a few machine tools can make them. In Peshawar, guys in dirt floor shops make guns to order for anyone with the money. Anyone can start making guns in his garage and sell them on the black market. They are also easy to smuggle.
In short, banning guns would make them as hard to get as illegal drugs.

Posted by: Tantor at December 15, 2012 04:05 PM (p+ot+)

169 I would like to point out the hypocrisy of liberals (which is perpetrated by them it is almost a stereotype) when it comes to making life safer and better.

National Vital Statistics Reports 2011

The top 15 causes of death in the US and gun violence isn't even in the top ten.

1. Diseases of heart
2. Malignant neoplasms
3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases
4. Cerebrovascular diseases
5. Accidents (unintentional injuries)
6. Alzheimer’s disease
7. Diabetes mellitus
8. Influenza and pneumonia
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis
10. Intentional self-harm (suicide)
11. Septicemia
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease
14. Parkinson’s disease
15. Assault (homicide)

In fact out of the over 2.4 million deaths, 16,591 were attributed to #15 homicide.

Table 2 gets to the detail:
Assault (homicide) by discharge of firearms …………………..11,406
Accidental discharge…………….588

While guns are a significant factor in homicide, they represent (11406/16591) 68.7%

If you look at Table 7 you will see the death rates for each age group 5 - 14, gun violence doesn't even rate the top 10. Auto accidents are the #1 killer of children followed by all other accidents.

Now I ask you isn't the amount of spending an indication of priority, then why the crap are we spending more money on green projects that go bust conveniently enriching Obama's cronies than say Alzheimers?

Posted by: dscott at December 15, 2012 05:43 PM (EYzt8)

170 I acknowledged Obama's new call for gun control by buying a new Glock17 and 6 high cap magazines at the local gun show.

Posted by: doesky at December 15, 2012 06:32 PM (siLiN)

171 It's impossible to ban guns. Has no one ever heard of a black market? We banned drugs too. How did that work out?

Posted by: David at December 15, 2012 07:59 PM (J9mCu)

172 Dave Cullen wrote a pretty decent book "Columbine" --very thorough. Eric Harris (who had the world at his fingertips with his good looks and intelligence--life was so easy he was contemptuous of it) hated the world and wanted his school to pay for that hatred--if he could have blown-up the world, he would have--no psychotropic drugs caused it. As for Dylan Klebold--he was just a follower (the video tapes from the school show he fired his gun very little).

Gun banning just puts more of us at risk for the nuts who aren't satisfied with just killing themselves--for the life of me I can't understand the mindset of wanting to kill others to stop the pain inside you (well, I can understand it--I just think it's silly to think that causing more pain stops yours and too, I believe there is a Hell just for these people)

Posted by: zombeewolf at December 16, 2012 02:37 AM (JQIJ7)

173 160 gun-free zone = defenseless potential victim zone

AKA fish in a barrel

Posted by: jbarntt at December 16, 2012 01:45 PM (UNFot)

174 'gun-free' zone - noun, synonymous with airliner.

3000 people were murdered by 19 ARABS and everybody wanted a taste of blood.

Where were the cries to ban airliners? Where were the cries to require stricker licensing of airplane operators?

Funny how when it's a moose-limb criminal we don't have a problem blaming the criminal, BUT when he's wimpy looking geek or a drug addled ganger ALL OF A SUDDEN reason demands we ban the guns.

My country has become a freak show.

Posted by: Blacksmith8 at December 16, 2012 09:20 PM (Yzu6e)

175 test

Posted by: [/toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 10:53 PM (QupBk)

176 test2

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 18, 2012 10:53 PM (QupBk)






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