Liberal NYT Columnist Nicholas Kristof: Gee, Maybe Eternal Government Dependency Isn't Actually "Generous" Towards Its Would-Be Beneficiaries

He writes about the stultifying, soul-draining experience of a life on the dole, and not just a life, but the same life for one's children, and their children, and so on until the Republic collapses.

Barone digests his column.

Kristof is writing from Breathitt County, Ky., deep in the Appalachian mountains, about mothers whose Supplemental Security Income benefits will decrease if their children learn to read. Kristof notes that 55% of children qualifying for SSI benefits do so because of “fuzzier intellectual disabilities short of mental retardation,” far more than four decades ago when SSI was just a new program.

Evidently SSI administrators decided to be more generous to parents of such children. But, as Kristof notes, giving parents an incentive to keep children from learning to read works against the children’s long-term interest.

Kristof’s column makes a point similar to that in my De. 2 Examiner column on the vast rise in people receiving Social Security Disability Insurance payments. As with SSI, one imagines that those responsible for extending benefits to those not previously eligible did so out of a sense of generosity. But as I noted, “there is also a human cost. Consider the plight of someone who at some level knows he can work but decides to collect disability payments instead. That person is not likely to ever seek work again, especially if the sluggish recovery turns out to be the new normal. He may be gleeful that he was able to game the system or just grimly determined to get what he can in a tough situation. But he will not be able to get the satisfaction of earned success from honest work that contributes something to society and the economy.” Generosity that produces “soul-crushing dependency” is not really generosity.

I haven't read Kristof's column (update -- I have now), but it looks like he chooses to avoid the Wedge Issue of the teacher's unions. Poor kids have only one way Up and Out, and that's a decent education, but the Democrats absolutely refuse to reform the educational system.

When the media natters Republicans about intransigence and being held prisoner to their most "extreme" and ideological elements-- how come never a single word is mentioned about Democrats' evil obedience to the teachers' unions?

The incredible thing here is that almost every liberal will admit this, and almost every liberal in the business of politics has seen the documentary Waiting for Superman. They know the current system is more of a trap for, say, poor black kids than Jim Crow ever was.

And what do they propose doing about it? Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing.

But no one ever talks about that, eh? You'll never see a single person on the media ask a Democrat about his party's "extremism" and extreme anti-black attitudes when it comes to basic education.

Nope, He Didn't Talk About Reforming Education: And his article actually does discuss education, and private groups which try to help poor kids learn.

But he avoids the Democratic Top Priority of doing nothing to improve education except paying teachers more.

A reformer in Waiting for Superman made this point: If school districts had the power to fire (without the heavy union interference) merely the bottom 6% of teachers, 90% of the problems with public education would be solved.

But Democrats will never permit that. That 6% that is in danger of being fired are the most fired-up members of the Teachers Unions, because their livelihoods depend on the policy of absolutely no terminations for incompetency, and those most fired-up members of the Teachers Unions are in turn the shock troops of the Democratic turnout machine.

So yes yes, let's continue talking about "extremism" without ever mentioning the Democrats' extremism and crucial reforms blocked by ideologues -- nay, not even ideologues, as there's no "idea" here worth discussing. This is pure partisanship only, pure power politics. It's entirely thoughtless and reflexive.

It's the ultimate Cult of the Old -- we do this because we have always done so before. Not a single Member of the Herd of Independent Thinkers ever demonstrates all this "courage" they're always complimenting themselves for to question this demonic policy.


Posted by: Ace at 10:45 AM



Comments

1 Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Even a blind squirrel gets lucky once in a while. Even........

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 10:49 AM (79ueO)

2 first?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 10, 2012 10:49 AM (TIIx5)

3 ack

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 10, 2012 10:49 AM (TIIx5)

4 But, as Kristof notes, giving parents an incentive to keep children from learning to read
___
Not to worry, Mr. Kristof, Obamacare in all its glory will soon be upon us. It will give parents an incentive to keep children from eating. And presto change-o! Watch the reading problem disappear!

Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 10:51 AM (jm/9g)

5 "And what do they propose doing about it? Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing."

I don't agree. I think they will nurture this until it blooms into a Republic-Squashing Chtulhu. Then they will try to steal away with all the Slush Funds that they have collected in the interim.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at December 10, 2012 10:52 AM (71LDo)

6 That illiteracy thing is creepy

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 10:52 AM (uFY4s)

7 But no one ever talks about that, eh? You'll never see a single person
on the media ask a Democrat about his party's "extremism" and extreme
anti-black attitudes when it comes to basic education.















Because like all good Democrats, the media WANT Black Americans to stay on the plantation, so to speak.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 10, 2012 10:52 AM (TIIx5)

8 4 that makes let it burn look optomistic

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 10:53 AM (uFY4s)

9 Need to go to math, so I will stop svensing

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 10:53 AM (uFY4s)

10 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 10:56 AM (5DR1j)

11 So what's the point? I mean, we're all just LiB, right? If it's gonna burn, what's the point about talking about any of this. Shouldn't we all be stockpiling? Why is the blog still running?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 10:57 AM (da5Wo)

12 giving parents an incentive to keep children from learning to read works against the children’s long-term interest.

Unexpectedly!

It's as if all these sociology graduates who end up lobbying for and implementing "well-meaning" government programs never actually learned the first thing about human behavior.

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 10, 2012 10:58 AM (1sinL)

13 This is another form of the SSI "crazy checks" that a lot of inner-city parents collect.

Parents will tell kids how to misbehave in certain ways in the classroom in order to ensure they qualify for the increase in money from SSI.

It's a sick form of child abuse as well as fucking over any kids in that classroom who actually want to learn.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 10:58 AM (e0xKF)

14 So, Texas may actually pass School Choice in the next legislative session. Probably as a "pilot" program, but there you go.

Surprising precisely no one, the Teachers Unions are going completely Librarian Poo over the idea. How dare the Texas Legislature consider funding education that is not the Public Schools.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 10:58 AM (5DR1j)

15 No worries, they'll have GPS to get them where they're going. Not going anywhere? Even better!

Posted by: huerfano at December 10, 2012 10:59 AM (bAGA/)

16 Surprising precisely no one, the Teachers Unions are
going completely Librarian Poo over the idea. How dare the Texas
Legislature consider funding education that is not the Public Schools.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 10:58 AM (5DR1j)


Don't worry, I'm sure Al is just charging the batteries for his megaphone. Wait till it actually passes.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 11:00 AM (da5Wo)

17 I haven't read Kristof's column (update -- I have now), but it looks
like he chooses to avoid the Wedge Issue of the teacher's unions.


He also chose to focus on "backwards" white people with "hill" accents that his readers can easily mock. Fucking coward.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 10, 2012 11:01 AM (/kI1Q)

18

wait, Kristofjerkoff is writing about a backwater county in KY? Which has a population of about a dozen? All of whom are white, of course.


what about the millions in Detroit and millions in Chicago and millions everwhere else that are goddamm welfare legacies??

Posted by: soothsayer at December 10, 2012 11:02 AM (Sj28i)

19

American Thinker covers this as well:

Some worms are turning?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/12/some_worms_are_turning.html

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 11:02 AM (LpQbZ)

20 14-

The former superintendent of our county stated in a town hall meeting that she was opposed to any educational plan other than public school. No homeschool, no charter schools, no private school. She was voted out this past election, after serving for almost twenty years. The new superintendent wants to work with all forms of education. So I am a little hopeful. Not much, but a little.

Posted by: Moki at December 10, 2012 11:03 AM (wi/sM)

21 Can we get a consensus?

I think we are all sympathetic to the LIB coalition, but it's really starting to sound like a 3 step solution:

1. "Let It Burn!"
2. ???
3. Profit!

How bout this? It's kind of cynical, but so what that's politics:

1. Let It Burn
2. Democrats are forced to enact entitlement reform since "they broke it, they bought it."
3. Republicans come back into power in the inevitable wave election, say...2018 or so, to "fix" it. (blech)

Posted by: Burney McBurnstein is kind of a LIBNO at December 10, 2012 11:03 AM (+wxCD)

22
Hey, every Army costs money to build and maintain.

The Free Shit Army is no different.

Posted by: Jaws at December 10, 2012 11:03 AM (4I3Uo)

23 Because like all good Democrats, the media WANT Black Americans to stay on the plantation, so to speak. ___
The highest paid SCM talking heads are Caucasian.

Bob Schieffer is so racist he won't step aside for some Person of Color to take his place. He's old enough to be collecting SS and pensions from the ten different outfits he's worked during his life. Why is Bob Schieffer actively working against the Black and Brown brothers and sisters?

Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 11:03 AM (jm/9g)

24 So what's the point? I mean, we're all just LiB, right? If it's gonna burn, what's the point about talking about any of this. Shouldn't we all be stockpiling? Why is the blog still running?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 10:57 AM (da5Wo)___ ___ _ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ __ ___ ___Alinksy style, nice!

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 11:03 AM (1Y+hH)

25 A reformer in Waiting for Superman made this point: If school districts had the power to fire (without the heavy union interference) merely the bottom 6% of teachers, 90% of the problems with public education would be solved.
----------------------------

I didn't see the documentary, but what is their proof for this? I think the problems with public schools go far beyond a few problem teachers....

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:04 AM (p7BzH)

26

Nope, He Didn't Talk About Reforming Education:


No worries, Hillary will cover that in 2016.

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 11:04 AM (LpQbZ)

27 Who says we aren't stockpiling? Been prepping since Jan '99.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 10, 2012 11:04 AM (GFM2b)

28 But no one ever talks about that, eh? You'll never see a single person on the media ask a Democrat about his party's "extremism" and extreme anti-black attitudes when it comes to basic education.Their intentions are good. They have destroyed inner city Black families and trapped them in a crushing death spiral of poverty, dependence, ignorance, and violence because they care so much. At least they aren't racists like those evil RethugliKKKans who want blacks to have the same opportunities as everyone else.

And once you accept that you are repsonsible for such gross inequity, as Kristof is on the verge of doing, the only solution is to destroy the segments of the population not trapped in the death spiral. The only equality statists have ever achieved is the equality of the mass grave.

Posted by: Steve Skubinna at December 10, 2012 11:04 AM (HoGA+)

29 "It's as if all these sociology graduates who end up
lobbying for and implementing "well-meaning" government programs never
actually learned the first thing about human behavior.


Posted by: Waterhouse at December 10, 2012 10:58 AM (1sinL)"
Those government programs are jobs programs where useless white "college graduates" can get power and compensation that they could never achieve competing against more competent whites in the private sector.

Posted by: BS Inc. at December 10, 2012 11:04 AM (FFwP9)

30 There are no illiterate black people on welfare.

Posted by: Nicholas Kristoff at December 10, 2012 11:05 AM (/YJYi)

31 The Democrat war on the Human Spirit:
1. Try to abort you. If that fails:
2. Force you into failing public schools where you will learn nothing. If you survive that and manage to get a job:
3. Force you into a union. Your wages will be garnished to fund 1,2, and 3.
4. Not unionized? Garnish your wages anyway to pay for the healthcare and pensions of unionized workers.
5. All the while, demonize the creative.

The beat goes on.

Posted by: DeepBeam at December 10, 2012 11:05 AM (eKWTg)

32
In this spirit, Darleen at Protein Wisdom has an audio of a monolog from Atlas Shrugs (Twentieth Century Motors) posted.

A good story within a story.

Posted by: jwest at December 10, 2012 11:06 AM (ZDsRL)

33 The comments to the NYT article are amusing as well. Basically, liberals claiming that Kristof is no longer a member in good standing in the liberal tribe because he dared to say that "maybe conservatives have a point".

Posted by: chemjeff at December 10, 2012 11:07 AM (m/eXi)

34 If it's gonna burn, what's the point about talking about any of this.
Shouldn't we all be stockpiling? Why is the blog still running?


Because you have to plan for what happens after the conflagration.

Yes, people should be stockpiling. There are other blogs to help with that. But we also have to understand what is fueling the fire, so we can take appropriate steps in the future to avoid or mitigate those things.

Let it burn isn't about complete inaction. Each of us, individually, should be doing things. As groups, we should be inculcating the conservative message into our localities. But, as a nation? It's going to burn anyway. We can use all our energy fighting the fire and losing, or we can step back, let the house burn to the ground, and then rebuild.

Rebuilding won't do any good if we just rebuild the same thing that just burned down.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:07 AM (5DR1j)

35

If we dont do anything stupid in the next few months we could have the Democrats back on the run.

I estimate about 10 million people, I call them the Sleeping Giant, who will soon wake up and regret not voting out Obama and some Democrats.



Posted by: soothsayer at December 10, 2012 11:08 AM (qj0su)

36
I estimate about 10 million people, I call them the Sleeping Giant,
who will soon wake up and regret not voting out Obama and some
Democrats.


----

.... and their recourse to correct that mistake isssssssss ???????????????

Posted by: fixerupper at December 10, 2012 11:09 AM (nELVU)

37 I didn't see the documentary, but what is their proof for this? I think the problems with public schools go far beyond a few problem teachers....

---

The ability to get rid of shitty teachers will directly improve the classroom experience for kids and, in addition, probably increase the likelihood of administrators being competent because it will no longer be Standard Operating Procedure to promote shitty teachers in order to get them out of the classrooms.

It will also help the bottom lines in the school districts because they won't be paying to keep unfireable shitty teachers in rubber-rooms, accruing retirement benefits, which could be used to pay a new crop of teachers who might actually be competent.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 11:09 AM (e0xKF)

38 There is a concerted effort in the media to portray Tea Party members as illiterate backwoodsie idiots. Expect more reporting on white, poor, rural areas of America to be focused on like a laser!

Schools and politicians are notorious for not only promote the "oh poor, poor blacks" attitude and teach victim hood, but use these students as a tool of why they need more money, more special programs, thus more members of teacher unions.


Posted by: Deli LLama at December 10, 2012 11:10 AM (lGu1O)

39 Schools and politicians are notorious for not only promote the "oh poor, poor blacks" attitude and teach victim hood, but use these students as a tool of why they need more money, more special programs, thus more members of teacher unions.

---

There's got to be a term for this... "Palestinianization"?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 11:11 AM (e0xKF)

40 Teacher are the least educated amoung us. They all put on the poor mouth bit but figure their salary on an hourly basis. Your eyes will pop open!

Posted by: burtdn at December 10, 2012 11:11 AM (8kEad)

41 I have legitimately ill patients who cannot get SSI. Something is wrong here. Something like the old Worker's Comp fraud mills? Damned if I know. I write disability evaluations that would make Scrooge weep. Nada.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 11:11 AM (6H6FZ)

42 Expect more reporting on white, poor, rural areas of America to be focused on like a laser!


-----


Cue music for BUCKWILD!! in 5...4...3...2...

Posted by: fixerupper at December 10, 2012 11:11 AM (nELVU)

43 If you're going to Let It Burn, might I suggest copies of the New York Times?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 10, 2012 11:11 AM (XkWWK)

44 I estimate about 10 million people, I call them the Sleeping Giant, who
will soon wake up and regret not voting out Obama and some Democrats.


Wow! And only 6+ months too late!

Fuck them with a rusty chainsaw. It's their willful somnolence which has allowed us to get where we are.

Let. It. Burn.

Who wants some marshmallows? And who brought the Hershey's bars and graham crackers?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:12 AM (5DR1j)

45 Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 11:09 AM (e0xKF)

Of course, it'll help, but solving 90% of problems?

Given the data we've been seeing lately on school performance, etc like half of kids not learning to read at a basic level or doing basic math... I'd say it's hard to attribute such failures to just 6% of teachers.

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:13 AM (p7BzH)

46 We can use all our energy fighting the fire and losing, or we can step back, let the house burn to the ground,



Exactly. Hey, if you can't win, don't play.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 11:13 AM (da5Wo)

47 I once declined SSI benefits for my premature daughter. They told me I couldn't turn it down. I said I wouldn't fill out any forms or sign any papers. "If I need additional money for my daughter I will get a second job." The bureaucrats had no ideas what to do with me. I'll bet someone filled out the papers themselves and pocketed the money.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at December 10, 2012 11:14 AM (71LDo)

48


o/t but evidently the alinsky axis is turning and there is a war on atheists, now. Someone mentioned this earlier today, in another thread. A pattern is erupting, which means there is a push behind it.

Here is one example:

REPORT: ATHEISTS, RELIGIOUS SKEPTICS FACE PERSECUTION & EXECUTION ACROSS THE GLOBE

http://tinyurl.com/ascl82c

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 11:14 AM (LpQbZ)

49
Ya know, if we just tamp down these little spots of smoke and elect a few Rrepublicans, everything will be just fine! Plus, we'll getparty invitations!


I used to get some of those invitations when I frequented the beltway cesspool occasionally years ago.I remember the wife bitching about wanting to slap a TedKennedy aide as we drove away from one. And she was still in her moderate phase at the time.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 11:14 AM (1Y+hH)

50 I think we need to refine "Let it Burn"

To me it means making the public aware that the Democrats solution of spending more money IS NOT a solution.

For me personally, t doesn't mean stock piling for a zombie apocalypse. Maybe I'm just an optimist.

Posted by: Burney McBurnstein is kind of a LIBNO at December 10, 2012 11:15 AM (+wxCD)

51
"I estimate about 10 million people, I call them the Sleeping Giant, who will soon wake up and regret not voting out Obama and some Democrats."

These were the people I was counting on to show up last November. I've now come the realization that these 10 million are to too fucking stupid to know what is happening.

Our only hope is to demonize the opposition and scare these idiots into voting our way.

Posted by: jwest at December 10, 2012 11:15 AM (ZDsRL)

52 I'd say it's hard to attribute such failures to just 6% of teachers.
Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:13 AM (p7BzH)

We would be rivaling the best schools in the world if we did so.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 11:15 AM (FsUAO)

53 Fuck them with a rusty chainsaw. It's their willful somnolence which has allowed us to get where we are. Let. It. Burn. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:12 AM (5DR1j)

THIS.

My response to Obamatards who express any buyers remorse anywhere within my earshot will be, "Wait. This is exactly what you wanted, because you voted for it. More than once."

This should end these conversations quickly.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 10, 2012 11:15 AM (sbV1u)

54 There's got to be a term for this... "Palestinianization"?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 11:11 AM (e0xKF)

That'll do.

Posted by: Deli LLama at December 10, 2012 11:15 AM (lGu1O)

55 The ability to get rid of shitty teachers will directly improve the
classroom experience for kids and, in addition, probably increase the
likelihood of administrators being competent because it will no longer
be Standard Operating Procedure to promote shitty teachers in order to
get them out of the classrooms.


This. Besides, if you've ever worked in any kind of private sector environment you know it to be true.

Let's say you work in a Customer Support cube-farm, answering the phones. There are a few real slackers or incompetents on the line, and a few more mediocre reps.

Now, Management comes in and says, "Sorry folks, times are bad, and we're going to have to let some of you go." What do those incompetent and mediocre types do? They buckle down and "look busy." Why? Because they're hoping their last several years of poor performance reviews will be excused when the axe drops, since they'll have shown "marked improvement."

Just the ability to fire people makes people work harder.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:16 AM (5DR1j)

56 I estimate about 10 million people, I call them the
Sleeping Giant, who will soon wake up and regret not voting out Obama
and some Democrats.









Posted by: soothsayer at December 10, 2012 11:08 AM (qj0su)


I was at a party this weekend and talked to a couple libs who can't stand the JEF; trouble was they hated Romney more. I'm not sure we can afford to "prove" that people like McRINO and Romney aren't considered serious candidates by the muddle in order to satisfy the "it's his turn now" criterion that the Republican party seems to be stuck on.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 10, 2012 11:17 AM (1BuxJ)

57
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 11:13 AM (da5Wo)


You are standing in front of a forest fire with agarden trowel acting like you can contain things.Please describe how you will accomplish this.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 11:18 AM (1Y+hH)

58
Given the data we've been seeing lately on school performance, etc like half of kids not learning to read at a basic level or doing basic math... I'd say it's hard to attribute such failures to just 6% of teachers.

Reading? Mathematics? Come on, that takes away precious classroom time teaching about how the Founding Fathers were all racists, homophobic Christian homosexuals and that capitalism is the very worst kind of system ever devised by man.

Here's a banana and a condom. You will be graded on time, and style...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 10, 2012 11:18 AM (yiIja)

59 I'm not buying the defeatism. I'd sooner chase them through the parking lot with a baseball bat than give up.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 11:18 AM (6H6FZ)

60 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:16 AM (5DR1j)

Yes, but I'm disputing the "90% of problems will be solved by firing 6% of teachers" bit. Administrators are also a problem, among many others.

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:19 AM (p7BzH)

61 Why is the blog still running?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 10:57 AM (da5Wo)


The best part about LIB is WIB.

Posted by: cajun carrot at December 10, 2012 11:19 AM (UZQM8)

62 You are standing in front of a forest fire with agarden trowel acting
like you can contain things.Please describe how you will accomplish
this.





Where did I say I would be successful? Sometimes, the fight itself is worthy, irrespective of the outcome.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 11:20 AM (da5Wo)

63 I have legitimately ill patients who cannot get SSI. Something is wrong
here. Something like the old Worker's Comp fraud mills? Damned if I
know. I write disability evaluations that would make Scrooge weep. Nada.


Open the phone book to the Attorney section. Specializing in gaming the SSI disability program is the new personal injury ambulance chaser.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 10, 2012 11:20 AM (SY2Kh)

64 "I'd sooner chase them through the parking lot with a baseball bat than give up."
--Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 11:18 AM (6H6FZ)


We can do that, too!

Posted by: MrShad at December 10, 2012 11:20 AM (Xqfwb)

65 ...the "it's his turn now" criterion that the Republican party seems to be stuck on.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 10, 2012 11:17 AM (1BuxJ)
=================

That's one more thing that's got me worried. Just whose "turn" IS it now?

Santorum was the runner up.

Newt was Miss Congeniality.

What to make of those tea leaves?

Posted by: Nighthawk at December 10, 2012 11:21 AM (RSqz2)

66 I'd say it's hard to attribute such failures to just 6% of teachers.

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:13 AM (p7BzH)


It's not just those teachers.

The current system encourages mediocrity, if not all-out incompetence. Taking away that security means the mediocre will work harder- because they don't want to get fired.

This is also why teachers hate any suggestion of merit pay. Merit pay is one side of the meritocracy coin, the other side of which is the ability to fire people who cut the mustard. If they accept Merit pay (which would be good for many of them) they know they'll eventually have to accept continued employment being dependent on performance.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:22 AM (5DR1j)

67 Where did I say I would be successful? Sometimes, the fight itself is worthy, irrespective of the outcome.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 11:20 AM (da5Wo)OK, I get that. Now, what is this "fight" you speak of? How are you going to fight?

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 11:23 AM (1Y+hH)

68 Sure there are crappy teachers as school districts are rife with nepotism, but one can be a great teacher, but can't teach a kid who is asleep. There are kids that have zero discipline at home, no bed time and stay up all night watching lord knows what on TV.

If public benefits were tied to school attendance and grades, that may be the only way to hit the bad parents where it hurts. In the pocket book. Kids miss to many school days or are taking up space? Perhaps they should receive a little less in their benefits - not more.

Posted by: Deli LLama at December 10, 2012 11:24 AM (lGu1O)

69 "satisfaction of earned success from honest work that contributes something to society and the economy."

That so called satisfaction isn't what it's cracked up to be and is overrated by those who don't work at tedious soul crushing jobs. And before anyone says to go get a better job, for some people and in certain areas, that's all there is. Just because you yourself are blessed with not be forced to endure such or may be willing to up stakes and move doesn't mean others are or are equipped to do so.

Too many times I see comments on here that lack any degree of sympathy or any attempt to judge others not by what they are capable but what the others are capable of. (my memory escapes me and I can't remember what the term is but it is apparently lacking with many that glibly condemn the "47%" or "the takers" as if they've all decided to become leaches on a benevolent society. Of course I realize that comments on any blog don't necessarily reflect what they person would actuall do or say in real life.)

Folks should walk a mile in someones shoes before even thinking of passing judgment on them.

For some not having to be afraid of the landlord throwing you into the street or not having enough food for your kids is enough of a trade off.

Too many get sucked up into the media "fairy tales" at both ends of the spectrum. Plus when one is looking for a group to blame, it's easier to blame them if they seem undeserving or consciously taking advantage. Yes there are many that are but let's try to get an actual handle on how many there truly are and how many really need the help. Not reiterate some apocryphal anecdote about about welfare recipients with Mercedes and buying 54" lcd TV or buying steak at the grocery with food stamps. It's become too easy to conflate a few incidents to thinking every one receiving aid is a cheat.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at December 10, 2012 11:24 AM (3E2th)

70 Paste tastes good! I rhymed!

Posted by: Runs with Scissors at December 10, 2012 11:25 AM (E16uG)

71 Sorry folks, times are bad, and we're going to have to let some of you
go." What do those incompetent and mediocre types do? They buckle down
and "look busy.

It's funny when they do something like this. The slackards can only look busy for so long, they then fall back into their regular habits. Usually 2 days is all it takes.

Posted by: Bruce at December 10, 2012 11:25 AM (Q6u7O)

72 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:22 AM (5DR1j)

Allen, I am not actually disputing any of what you are saying. I am just making the point that the "reformers" who make the 90% claim are fools.

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:25 AM (p7BzH)

73 "Open the phone book to the Attorney section. Specializing in gaming the
SSI disability program is the new personal injury ambulance chaser."

There is at least one good legitimate attorney taking these cases and winning a few. I am talking about cases that should sail through getting turned down while I am reading about an illegal getting $500K in hospital treatment for an infection and horseshit like that.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 11:26 AM (6H6FZ)

74 Why do Mr Bill Cosby and his critics spring to mind?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cosby#Socioeconomic_views

Posted by: andycanuck at December 10, 2012 11:26 AM (jPVBi)

75 OK, I get that. Now, what is this "fight" you speak of? How are you going to fight?



Good. Glad to hear it.

It's the same fight as always. The fight we're losing. The fight of/for ideals. There's a thousands ways, large and small, to fight it. Simply engaging those around you. Working and pushing for conservatives in local elections and on local boards. Pushing for conservatives in larger elections. Working on the party from within. Everyone can do something.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 11:27 AM (da5Wo)

76 I know a guy who used to be a hard worker, then he met a chick who was on SSI for some bullshit disability (she claims to have mental problems and doesn't), now he just sits on his ass living off her payments.

Posted by: booger at December 10, 2012 11:27 AM (HI6wa)

77 "A reformer in Waiting for Superman made this point: If school districts had the power to fire (without the heavy union interference) merely the bottom 6% of teachers, 90% of the problems with public education would be solved."

This is bullshit. I totally favor firing the bottom 6% but unless you allow public schools to exclude the troublemakers who wreck the classroom for the other students, you'll fail to improve public education.
My best friend has been a public school teacher for nearly 40 years, as was his wife, and his biggest beef is about the fact that the schools are not permitted to deal with, and eject,the miscreants.

Posted by: boniface ballers at December 10, 2012 11:27 AM (l3RZ9)

78 What to make of those tea leaves?

Posted by: Nighthawk at December 10, 2012 11:21 AM (RSqz2)


Not sure because I don't think anybody is out there in the same position Willard was in 2008 with a shitload of money able to keep his name out there in an understated kind of way. I mean there was always a feel of inevitability of Romney running *and* being the favorite that I just don't see in either Santorum or Noot. Don't get me wrong: In the course of the campaign I became very positive toward the idea of a Romney presidency and think that the country feeling otherwise was a huge mistake. But he was always gonna be a hard sell to the nation at large and we kind of deluded ourselves over that factor.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 10, 2012 11:28 AM (1BuxJ)

79 RE: The Let it Burn discussion. For me, I'm in "let it burn" mode for the federal government, particularly around the fiscal cliff (good Lord I hate that term - so sick of it). But it's at the STATE level that the rebuilding will take place AFTER Washington goes tits up. So that's why I'm all for municipalities and state governments working out their issues, airing them out and proposing fixes. It means they're ahead of the game.

So, here's my philosophy:

--> Federal fiscal issues =Let it burn. I'm done. The masses voted for it, so let them fucking eat it. I'll suffer, too, but at least I'll have their tears to sustain me.
--> Federal criminal and civil issues (FF, Benghazi, etc) = Stuff a lit stick of dynamite up Bammy's ass. No mercy.
--> State and local fiscal and criminal/civil issues (unions, pensions, school choice, voter fraud, etc) = Fight, fight, fight!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 10, 2012 11:28 AM (4df7R)

80 Waiting for Superman: Meh. It's not the teachers, it's the students (and their "families").
You don't have to be a genius to teach grade school kids. You just need to know more than they do.

Sure it would help to fire the incompetent. But it's really just a feelgood red herring.

Posted by: jeanne at December 10, 2012 11:29 AM (GdalM)

81 All I have for this, which may be O/T:

http://tinyurl.com/bs39p2f

If you're not as well dressed as the monkey, be angry.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 10, 2012 11:29 AM (GBXon)

82 Firing the bottom 6% of teachers will solve, approximately, 6% of problems.

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:30 AM (p7BzH)

83 Hey Surferdoc.

Is minority status a significant factor in the decision process?

Posted by: Jack Wagon at December 10, 2012 11:30 AM (KUPae)

84 Obama to take Oath of Office in private, shutting out press.

http://bit.ly/U9Y82g

Posted by: ElKomandante at December 10, 2012 11:30 AM (LOCUC)

85 there is a war on atheists, now

---

Did rush call someone a slut again?

P.S. I'm going to buy a violin so I can fiddle while it burns.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2012 11:31 AM (Hx5uv)

86 #69

Damn right I lack any sympathy. I effin' work for the things I've got. I don't expect you to do it for my lazy ass.

The safety net is meant to be temporary. Period. If you're worried about feeding your kids, maybe you should stop having them. If you're worried about getting kicked out of your apartment, maybe you should figure out how to tighten your belt and pay your fucking rent.

I spent *years* being so broke that I would eat balogne sandwiches for weeks because all I could afford was packs of balogne and cheap ass bread. I refused to ask for handouts. Anyone that says "it's too hard" is a whiner, and isn't trying.

Posted by: GMan at December 10, 2012 11:32 AM (sxq57)

87 Trouble is in Egypt, and they are opposing the newly elected leader Morsi...funny he won on the same percentage as Bammy and we sit here and stew?

Posted by: Clemenza at December 10, 2012 11:32 AM (Q8Pu5)

88 Sure it would help to fire the incompetent. But it's really just a feelgood red herring.

I'd like to see real consequences for teachers in middle and highschool who pull shenanigans or are just too fucking clueless to be teaching in general. That teacher in Salisbury, NC who basically forced a kid out because he didn't think it was true that you couldn't say bad things about TFG is a prime example. That teacher went beyond discussing the issue and just let her primal partisan hackery take over. She's still a teacher.


Posted by: EC at December 10, 2012 11:32 AM (GQ8sn)

89 If you want more of something, subsidize it. If you want less of something, tax it.

In a nutshell, this explains the visible result of the perverse policy decisions made by our betters in government.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 10, 2012 11:32 AM (pfqFp)

90 Folks should walk a mile in someones shoes before even thinking of passing judgment on them.

I can't fucking imagine what--except for methamphetemines--could possibly be so important that I would voluntarily doom my child to live their entire life in poverty and squalor.

But *I'm* the shitty person here, not the people rigging the system or selling out their kids for a few bucks a month. o.O

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 10, 2012 11:33 AM (/kI1Q)

91 I am just making the point that the "reformers" who make the 90% claim are fools.

Meh. 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot. I'm pretty sure they do not mean literally 90% (unless they're Joe Biden). I think they mean "an overwhelming majority." And, there, I agree with them.

--> Federal fiscal issues =Let it burn. I'm done. The masses voted
for it, so let them fucking eat it. I'll suffer, too, but at least I'll
have their tears to sustain me.

--> Federal criminal and civil issues (FF, Benghazi, etc) = Stuff a lit stick of dynamite up Bammy's ass. No mercy.

--> State and local fiscal and criminal/civil issues (unions,
pensions, school choice, voter fraud, etc) = Fight, fight, fight!


I would love to shove FF and Benghazi up TFG's rectum. I don't think that's going to happen, and I'm tired of waiting for Republicans to do anything about it. If they get around to it, I'll support them. Until then, I've got better things to do.

Otherwise, I agree with you. I'm pretty sure the "it" in "Let it burn" is the Federal Government.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:33 AM (5DR1j)

92
Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at December 10, 2012 11:24 AM (3E2th)


OK, fair enough. I don't think people here are down on those who need a safety net.


Here is the problem: We have future committments of various benefits and programs to people. For every $4.50 of future benefits promised, we have an expectation of $1.00 in future revenue available.


Lots of people aren't going to receive anything close to what they've been promised. (That's when the fire really starts). It's not going to matter where you like the payouts or not, they simply can't be made.


Even firefighters know that sometimes all they can do is get out of the way.


My prepping is complete. Now I wait. If someone has a way to close that gap I mentioned above, let us hear the plan that will put that fire out.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 11:33 AM (1Y+hH)

93 I was at a party this weekend and talked to a couple libs who can't stand the JEF; trouble was they hated Romney more.
___
Really. Which GOP candidate would they find acceptable?

*crickets*

Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 11:33 AM (jm/9g)

94 I may have mentioned this before, but a few months ago, my boss and I were talking to a client and she went off on this little rant about how the state had to do more to help people like her. The boss, who is an old school lib, asked her what the state should do. She could not answer him. Quite literally, she could not articulate what else the state should do, she just knew it should be more. That's the attitude we're fighting against.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 10, 2012 11:33 AM (VtjlW)

95
Remember the teacher who told the class it was illegal to criticize TFG and got caught on video screaming at the student who dared to challenger her idiocy? She is still on the payroll and was never disciplined AFAIK.

That is the state of our skrooll system. FUMU. Ideology trumps ability.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 10, 2012 11:34 AM (yiIja)

96 @ 86 every eat oatmeal for 27 days waiting for a check from mom and dad? Yeah , oat meal pancakes , oat meal sandwich , oatmeal and road fruit, been there..

Posted by: Clemenza at December 10, 2012 11:34 AM (Q8Pu5)

97 1. Let It Burn
2. Democrats are forced to enact entitlement reform since "they broke it, they bought it."
3. Republicans come back into power in the inevitable wave election, say...2018 or so, to "fix" it. (blech)

Posted by: Burney McBurnstein is kind of a LIBNO at December 10, 2012 11:03 AM (+wxCD)


More likely:

1. Let it burn
2. Democrats blame GOP/conservatives/Kyriarchy/&c.
3. Democrats continue to do what they want
4. ???
5. Seventh seal is broken

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 10, 2012 11:35 AM (sZTYJ)

98 The boss, who is an old school lib, asked her what the state should do.
She could not answer him. Quite literally, she could not articulate
what else the state should do, she just knew it should be more.


Write more checks? Write bigger checks? Both?

Posted by: EC at December 10, 2012 11:35 AM (GQ8sn)

99
"Really. Which GOP candidate would they find acceptable?"

Well, RMoney was the second coming of Barry Glodwater dontchaknow.

The MSM said so. It must be true.

Posted by: Jaws at December 10, 2012 11:35 AM (4I3Uo)

100 I totally favor firing the bottom 6% but unless you allow public schools
to exclude the troublemakers who wreck the classroom for the other
students, you'll fail to improve public education.

Bingo. Wife was a teacher.

Part of the problem is, the teacher only sees your little darling for 6 hours a day. Of that 6 hours, there is about 4 and a half of actual teaching. Complaints about how much a teacher gets paid and the work hours of a teach have been debated back and forth, but it comes down to, what are you teaching your pride and joy during the time they are not in school?

Posted by: Bruce at December 10, 2012 11:35 AM (Q6u7O)

101 Really. Which GOP candidate would they find acceptable?



*crickets*

Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 11:33 AM (jm/9g)


Crazy Uncle

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 10, 2012 11:36 AM (1BuxJ)

102 94 I may have mentioned this before, but a few months ago, my boss and I were talking to a client and she went off on this little rant about how the state had to do more to help people like her. The boss, who is an old school lib, asked her what the state should do. She could not answer him. Quite literally, she could not articulate what else the state should do, she just knew it should be more. That's the attitude we're fighting against.

---

Alex, I think part of the problem is that he did the unexpected by asking for details.

She's probably used to people ignoring her or agreeing with her, not asking for suggestions.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 11:36 AM (e0xKF)

103 "...every eat oatmeal for 27 days waiting for a check from mom and dad? Yeah , oat meal pancakes , oat meal sandwich , oatmeal and road fruit, been there.."

At least with that much fiber, you should be very regular.

Posted by: jwest at December 10, 2012 11:36 AM (ZDsRL)

104 That's unexpected!

Massive Revenue Loss Follows California Tax Hike Vote

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b93ha83

But don't worry. They may have overestimated revenues but they underestimated expenditures so it'll all balance out. It's Moonbeam economics!I

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2012 11:36 AM (Hx5uv)

105 I would love to shove FF and Benghazi up TFG's rectum.

It wouldn't be the first thing shoved there, IYKWIMAITYD.

Posted by: Reggie "Love Machine" Love at December 10, 2012 11:36 AM (4WhSY)

106 "But no one ever talks about that, eh?"

Certainly not the GOP. They're too busy giving Obama their lunch money so he will stop beating them up.

Posted by: PJ at December 10, 2012 11:36 AM (ZWaLo)

107
While public schools crumble, the teacher's union gives millions upon millions of dollars to the democrat party.

Posted by: Fresh at December 10, 2012 11:37 AM (O7ksG)

108 Lots of interesting thinking after from our public intellectuals after the fucking campaign is over. It's almost like they want us to save them yet again.

LiFB.

Posted by: dick cheese at December 10, 2012 11:37 AM (QupBk)

109 I spent *years* being so broke that I would eat balogne sandwiches for
weeks because all I could afford was packs of balogne and cheap ass
bread. I refused to ask for handouts. Anyone that says "it's too hard"
is a whiner, and isn't trying.


Second. Most people go through poverty being broke at some point. The question is what they do about it. Yes, some few are legitimate hard cases who don't really have an opportunity to fix it themselves. But even what they need is something that provides an opportunity, not just hand outs. Most of them, however, are either mooches who have figured out how to game the system, or people who should be in mental institutions.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:37 AM (5DR1j)

110 my english sucks sometimes

Posted by: dick cheese at December 10, 2012 11:38 AM (QupBk)

111 That's unexpected!

Massive Revenue Loss Follows California Tax Hike Vote

http://preview.tinyurl.com/b93ha83

But
don't worry. They may have overestimated revenues but they
underestimated expenditures so it'll all balance out. It's Moonbeam
economics!


It means the tax hikes were too small. All they need to do is raise them another 30% and they should be set.

Posted by: EC at December 10, 2012 11:38 AM (GQ8sn)

112 she could not articulate what else the state should do

---

What's so hard about saying, "Free cash?"

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2012 11:39 AM (Hx5uv)

113
The connection between the teachers union and the democrat party should be made illegal.

Posted by: Fresh at December 10, 2012 11:39 AM (O7ksG)

114 Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 10, 2012 11:36 AM (1BuxJ)
___
Did they vote for him? If they did, it's because they knew he was unelectable.

Libs hate Republicans, period. They come out in force, with a singular purpose, to defeat us. While our side had a significant number who stayed home and nurtured a grievance. The hate was directed to allies instead of enemies.

Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 11:39 AM (jm/9g)

115 Two comments:

1. I grew up in Kentucky. One of my high school friends is now the head of IT services at the college where my son is a sophomore. When we went to the college for my son's music audition we stayed with said friend and his wife. Both of them grew up dirt poor, he in Kentucky and she in a poor part of Philly. They met at Berea College, a college in Kentucky founded by the Rockefellers for the purpose of providing free education for poor children. There is no tuition, but all students must work fulltime jobs. Both of them were the first children in their families to go to college. She now also works at a major university in the development department. They have a very nice lifestyle and have put three girls through college, all of whom are employed and on their way.

Friend told me his ENTIRE family back in Kentucky are on disability. He is literally the only one of about 20 people - aunts, uncles, cousins - that has acareer. This is not in Appalachia either, this is in central Kentucky where there are jobs and industry and decent schools and inexpensive community colleges. He only goes home for funerals because the attitude is so offensive to him, and relatives actually have made fun of him for having a career. Friend told me it is a sport in many smaller communities now, to see how many people in your family can get a government check so nobody has to work for a living.

2. My son saw "Waiting For Superman" in his sociology class this fall. He was completely outraged by it. Heis now a hardcore conservative, despises teacher's unions and says he can NEVER support a political party that keeps this inner city school system the way it is or supports said unions. He thinks the only hope for America is radical education reform.

We need to figure out some way to get this movie shown on every college campus in America.

Posted by: rockmom at December 10, 2012 11:39 AM (qE3AR)

116 Fire the bottom 6%! Great idea. This will become politicized in many school districts and used as a pretext to get rid of people who don't go along with the liberal education agenda. There won't be any conservatives left.

Posted by: Cricket at December 10, 2012 11:39 AM (DrC22)

117 While public schools crumble, the teacher's union gives millions upon millions of dollars to the democrat party.

---

And makes fun cartoon videos on economics.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2012 11:39 AM (Hx5uv)

118
Which GOP candidate would they find acceptable?



Only one would be useful. He or she must have about $86 trillion in hand.

I'll wait.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 11:40 AM (1Y+hH)

119 RALEIGH, N.C. – A federal judge has ruled it is unconstitutional for North Carolina to issue pro-life license plates unless the state offers similar plates supporting abortion rights.
U.S. District Court Judge James C. Fox ruled on Friday that North Carolina cannot produce or distribute the “Choose Life” plate.
Judge Fox concluded, “The State’s offering of a Choose Life license plate in the absence of a pro-choice plate constitutes viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment.”

As America goes down the crapper, it sure is nice the Courts have time to waste on shit like this?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 11:41 AM (79ueO)

120 Chavez Names Loyalist Heir as Venezuela Eyes Succession

Nice Democracy ha? And he looks like Saddam.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 11:42 AM (79ueO)

121
I was at a party this weekend and talked to a couple libs who can't stand the JEF; trouble was they hated Romney more.

---

They're looking for the magic candidate who can make the progressive policies that have failed every time in the past work.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2012 11:42 AM (Hx5uv)

122 The former superintendent of our county stated in a town hall meeting that she was opposed to any educational plan other than public school. No homeschool, no charter schools, no private school. She was voted out this past election, after serving for almost twenty years. The new superintendent wants to work with all forms of education. So I am a little hopeful. Not much, but a little.
Posted by: Moki at December 10, 2012 11:03 AM (wi/sM)



Those are the types of changes that need to happen. They are far more important than the national elections, as far as I am concerned. It doesn't look like it does much, when you have the national nightmare blaring into your life, but these are the little steps forward that make the difference. This is how the left did it over the last 70 years.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 10, 2012 11:43 AM (eAdr2)

123 Shorter Kristol:

Something must be done! Or fail to do so!

Blar bar bar bar


It's like his ability to perceive the problem intersected with his not accepting the solution.

But....cocktail parties!

Posted by: eleven at December 10, 2012 11:43 AM (KXm42)

124 Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi will visit the United States in 2013, a presidential spokesman said on Monday, in what would be the Islamist leader's first visit to Washington since he was elected in June.

The spokesman, Yasser Ali, said no precise date had been set for the visit. The United States gives Egypt about $1.3 billion a year in military aid to bolster the US-brokered peace treaty Cairo signed with Israel in 1979. (Reuters)


Should be a real lover feast

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 11:44 AM (79ueO)

125 And, there, I agree with them.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 10, 2012 11:33 AM (5DR1j)

Yea, well, I don't. Bad teachers are just the tip of the iceberg.

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:44 AM (p7BzH)

126

Another Let It Burn proponent.

Time for Some Ju-Jitsu

By WILLIAM TUCKER on 12.10.12 @ 6:09AM

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/12/10/time-for-some-ju-jitsu


There is no alternative.

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 11:44 AM (LpQbZ)

127 This is bullshit. I totally favor firing the bottom 6% but unless you allow public schools to exclude the troublemakers who wreck the classroom for the other students, you'll fail to improve public education.

This is why it can't be an either/or situation. It has to be a combination of factors to encompass true reform.

1) Get rid of bad teachers. That means don't just cycle them around from school to school - get them out of the system completely.

2) Get rid of problem students. Violent or overly disruptive students who intimidate their classmates, not to mention the faculty and staff, have no place in a public school. Either expel them completely or transfer them to a specialty school that's equipped to handle them. The protest here is always that students who aren't in school due to expulsion are "on the streets" where they get into trouble, and thosewho have been transferred to a specialty facility are slapped with a prejudicial "bad kid" label. My response to that is, oh well. That's what we have laws and privacy regulations for.

3) Deal with low-interest and high-interest parents. This is the REALLY hard one, because there's no simple answer.

"Low-interest" parents are those who don't give a shit what their child does in school, how he or she is faring academically or socially, and who wouldn't go to a parent/teacher conference without a gun to their head or a substantial financial incentive.

"High-interest" parents are also known as "helicopter parents." These are the parents that all the teachers I know absolutely HATE. Every little thing that Johnny or Judy does, in school and at home, is closely monitored. At the first sign that their precious little angel hasn't been given proper credit or has been unfairly rebuked, they're on the phone to the teacher, the principal, the superintendent, their local and state legislators, the works. And I don't mean legitimate questions that a parent might have about why Suzy got detention for cheating. For helicopter parents, their precious baby can DO NO WRONG, and anyone who doesn't agree is clearly being vindictive and prejudiced. Whether the child wants it or not, they simply cannot get away from their obsessive parents' involvement.

You have to reform the classroom first, so that you can ensure that students have a safe, productive learning environment where all students have the opportunity to thrive. Once you have that settled, you'll have more clout to rebuff the helicopter parents, and more opportunity to provide support to those students whose parents don't give a rat's ass about them.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 10, 2012 11:44 AM (4df7R)

128
Newt was Miss Congeniality.

What to make of those tea leaves?

Posted by: Nighthawk at December 10, 2012 11:21 AM (RSqz2)

We might get to see Newt debate Hillary? It would be a hoot, even though it would be pointless.

Posted by: joncelli at December 10, 2012 11:44 AM (RD7QR)

129 Write bigger checks?

Fun-sized novelty checks for some! Checks that play "Imagine" when endorsed for others!

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 10, 2012 11:45 AM (1sinL)

130 A federal judge has ruled it is unconstitutional for North Carolina to issue pro-life license plates unless the state offers similar plates supporting abortion rights.

I have no problem with this. The plates are just a money making scheme anyway. If you can have it on a bumpersticker, have it on a plate.

Posted by: dick cheese at December 10, 2012 11:46 AM (QupBk)

131 My work takes me to Jackson, KY at least one day every month.. It is quite the place, bloody Breathitt is what it's called.

The County also has those other wonderful Democrat party traditions - endemic corruption and naked vote buying.

"In the past two years alone, more than20 public officials have pleaded guilty or have been convicted in vote-buying schemes."

http://tinyurl.com/a3vfdba

Not that any news reports are willing to list party affiliations. Of course, anyone who knows Breathitt knows there is only one party.



Posted by: ThomasD at December 10, 2012 11:48 AM (FA+FN)

132 77 "A reformer in Waiting for Superman made this point: If school districts had the power to fire (without the heavy union interference) merely the bottom 6% of teachers, 90% of the problems with public education would be solved."

This is bullshit. I totally favor firing the bottom 6% but unless you allow public schools to exclude the troublemakers who wreck the classroom for the other students, you'll fail to improve public education.
My best friend has been a public school teacher for nearly 40 years, as was his wife, and his biggest beef is about the fact that the schools are not permitted to deal with, and eject,the miscreants.
Posted by: boniface ballers at December 10, 2012 11:27 AM (l3RZ9)

^^^^ This!

My mom was a teacher for many years. According to her, the situation in the classroom, even in better rated schools, deteriorated pretty rapidly once they stopped letting the schools make the kids face some consequences for their actions or face expulsion. She was a good teacher who left the school system (got her masters degree so she could get out) after facing some seriously stupid crap.

Like being forced (for example) to take a thirteen year-old boy into her 5 th grade classroom. The kid was still in 5th grade because he refused to do anything but sleep. She met with the parents, who then told her they did not believe in punishing their child and that he was allowed to do whatever he wanted at home, regardless of how well he did in school. And the school board refused to let the school remove the kid.

I won't pretend that stuff is the only problem in the system. There are definitely shitty teachers out there and the indoctrination is happening (which is why I home school, BTW). But we can't lay the blame solely at the feet of the teachers when there are some seriously shitty students and parents out there that make such a ruckus when you try to get them out so the rest of the class can learn, and the shitty politicians in the school boards (and at the other admin levels) that allow that crap to go on.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 10, 2012 11:48 AM (qFpRI)

133 #100 When my son was little he attended a public elementary school that had a large number of inner city kids bussed in. When he got into second grade, he turned 6 after the school year started and he had four classmates who were 8 - already had been held back a year. The teacher was black and he said she tolerated these boys' rude behavior, failure to turn in assignments, etc. while riding his ass constantly. The principal had been slowly weeding out poor performing teachers and this one got fired right after the year was over because so many of us parents complaiend aboout her. But the students were also a bigparty of the problem. The principal tried having PTA meetings in the neighborhood where they lived, and all the suburban white parents showed up, but none of the neighborhood parents did. I talked to a boy that my son became friends with, and he told me there was not a single book in his house, just trashy celebertiy mags that his mother read. He had never been taught to read and was struggling in school, but was obviously bright and wanted to learn.

One night I had to run to the store because I needed something or other. I went to our local Target which was open until 11:00. I got there at 10:30 and the place was PACKED with black people there with their kids. School aged kids, on a school night, out shopping at 10:30 at night. I couldn't believe it.

We expect schools to fix children who have been raised like wild animals, by wild animals.

Posted by: rockmom at December 10, 2012 11:49 AM (NYnoe)

134 Yeah the Dems have always been slavers. They've just gotten less overt, but certainly not covert. This is what America elected. LiB.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at December 10, 2012 11:49 AM (0q2P7)

135 "A federal judge has ruled it is unconstitutional for North Carolina
to issue pro-life license plates unless the state offers similar plates
supporting abortion rights."

Wonderful, when can I order my 'It's great to hate NC State' plate?

Posted by: ThomasD at December 10, 2012 11:49 AM (FA+FN)

136 Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi will visit the United States in ...Should be a real lover feast


I bet they go straight to the Stabbin' Cabin at Camp David.

Posted by: garrett at December 10, 2012 11:50 AM (lCCoW)

137 Sheesh, Kill them all!

Let God sort them out!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at December 10, 2012 11:50 AM (yLgEb)

138 127

Good ideas. I grew up going to a parochial grade school. My freshman year at a public high school, I was amazed and appalled at the lack of respect for the school, classmates, and teachers. Even after four years it still seemed odd to talk in class.


Posted by: Bruce at December 10, 2012 11:50 AM (Q6u7O)

139 Google Inc. (GOOG) avoided about $2 billion in worldwide income taxes in 2011 by shifting $9.8 billion in revenues into a Bermuda shell company, almost double the total from three years before, filings show.
By legally funneling profits from overseas subsidiaries into Bermuda, which doesn’t have a corporate income tax, Google cut its overall tax rate almost in half. The amount moved to Bermuda is equivalent to about 80 percent of Google’s total pretax profit in 2011.


And of course Google is a flaming liberal company. Again another example of liberals living by their motto: Do as we say, Not as we do!
And wait until the tax rates go up

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 11:50 AM (79ueO)

140 'The current system encourages mediocrity, if not all-out incompetence. "

My sister is an aide in a public school. Older teachers openly tell newer teachers not to do things. Example. The students are brought to the door at the end of recess in lines based on their classrooms. Newer teachers will come from their classrooms to the playground door to get their class so that the kids go to their room in an orderly fashion, and with supervision.
Older teachers tell them not to do that because, "then we will all be expected to do it." Older teachers openly promote laziness and bare minimum teaching.

And when there was a pro union proposition on the election ballot, the teachers' union was running constant tv ads for weeks about how teachers need collective bargaining so they could bargain for issues that helped children. The proposal failed. Right to Work is passing in Michigan.
Even in liberal Michigan people aren't buying the lie.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 10, 2012 11:51 AM (q4CTu)

141 121
I was at a party this weekend and talked to a couple libs who can't stand the JEF; trouble was they hated Romney more.

---

They're looking for the magic candidate who can make the progressive policies that have failed every time in the past work.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2012 11:42 AM (Hx5uv)


Those are the people you knock on the forehead and ask if anyone is home.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 10, 2012 11:51 AM (eAdr2)

142 "Hey Surferdoc.

Is minority status a significant factor in the decision process?"

Well, the ones who are getting turned down are not minorities. Probably a coincidence.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 11:51 AM (6H6FZ)

143 "It's the ultimate Cult of the Old -- we do this because we have always
done so before. Not a single Member of the Herd of Independent Thinkers
ever demonstrates all this "courage" they're always complimenting
themselves for to question this demonic policy."

That's why Ace's post below is important. Boehner and Co. spiked the copyright reform report. What we need is legislation that shares the pain with our "betters". We will get there when we hire more conservative senators and representatives.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/335493.php

Posted by: mrp at December 10, 2012 11:52 AM (HjPtV)

144 Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 11:51 AM (6H6FZ)
__

They need to go to their Congressman to open a case with him/her.

Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 11:52 AM (jm/9g)

145


We expect schools to fix children who have been raised like wild animals, by wild animals.
Posted by: rockmom at December 10, 2012 11:49 AM (NYnoe)



Like this one:

PARENTS CHARGED AFTER EGGING ON TEEN DAUGHTER IN FIGHT VIDEO THAT GOES VIRAL

http://tinyurl.com/ae7q5jc

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 11:53 AM (LpQbZ)

146 @139

I really should boycott Google. Anyone know a good alternative?

Posted by: JDTAY at December 10, 2012 11:53 AM (a0nis)

147 Illiteracy scares me

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 11:54 AM (uFY4s)

148 Posted by: JDTAY at December 10, 2012 11:53 AM (a0nis)
___
startpage

Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 11:54 AM (jm/9g)

149 146 yyou can't escape the all powerful google

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 11:55 AM (uFY4s)

150 142
"Hey Surferdoc.

Is minority status a significant factor in the decision process?"

Well, the ones who are getting turned down are not minorities. Probably a coincidence.


Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 11:51 AM (6H6FZ)

The sad truth is that we Americans who point out that these approaches are in fact racist, are considered the racists.

Posted by: Jack Wagon at December 10, 2012 11:55 AM (KUPae)

151
Illiteracy scares me

---

It's the poisonous fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2012 11:56 AM (Hx5uv)

152 Teachers suck. All they teach to students are that teachers have a hard, unappreciated job.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2012 11:56 AM (XN0LR)

153 139 that's more money than exists in Bermuda

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 11:56 AM (uFY4s)

154 146
@139



I really should boycott Google. Anyone know a good alternative?

Posted by: JDTAY at December 10, 2012 11:53 AM (a0nis)

While not nearly as robust, I have been using Startpage.

Posted by: Jack Wagon at December 10, 2012 11:56 AM (KUPae)

155 A federal judge has ruled it is unconstitutional for North Carolina to
issue pro-life license plates unless the state offers similar plates
supporting abortion rights.

----


Hmmmm..... waiting for that federal injunction requiring "balance" on PBS.....

Posted by: fixerupper at December 10, 2012 11:57 AM (nELVU)

156


I really should boycott Google. Anyone know a good alternative?
Posted by: JDTAY at December 10, 2012 11:53 AM (a0nis)


bing.com

but, remember, this:

Conservative Search Engine

http://www.westernjournalism.com/blogging-tools/conservative-search-engine/

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 11:57 AM (LpQbZ)

157 I once had a conversation with a far Left professor, and he claimed the solution to the teacher problem was to get rid of all the bad teachers by letting them go with full pensions etc. on analogy to a dismissal from the military "with honor", and then impose high standards for new incoming teachers. He said it was like a corporate buyout/company restructuring. He made no bones about it being rather painful and difficult, but he was adamant that we just need to get rid of those awful, uneducated people in the system and set things up so that they don't get in again.

What do you guys think about that?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 10, 2012 11:57 AM (Y5I9o)

158 Teachers suck. All they teach to students are that teachers have a hard, unappreciated job.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2012 11:56 AM (XN0LR)


The sad thing is, the GOOD teachers? They DO have a hard, unappreciated job, because they have to try and do their work despite the pressure from the union, other teachers, administration, and parents.

They're also the ones who rarely complain.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 10, 2012 11:57 AM (4df7R)

159 152 true

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 11:57 AM (uFY4s)

160 You know that rigid class system they hate so much?

They've created it.

I wish they taught the Law of Unintended Consequences in law school.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2012 11:57 AM (T0NGe)

161 I really should boycott Google. Anyone know a good alternative?

I like to use Yahoo Homepage. Especially for their insightful and accurate news.

Posted by: Bruce at December 10, 2012 11:58 AM (Q6u7O)

162 Unions are the problem

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 11:59 AM (uFY4s)

163 I like to use Yahoo Homepage. Especially for their insightful and accurate news.
Posted by: Bruce at December 10, 2012 11:58 AM (Q6u7O)


*SNORT* ISWYDT

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 10, 2012 11:59 AM (4df7R)

164 What do you guys think about that?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 10, 2012 11:57 AM (Y5I9o)

Full pension? For failure? Hells to the no.

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 11:59 AM (p7BzH)

165 Like this one:

PARENTS CHARGED AFTER EGGING ON TEEN DAUGHTER IN FIGHT VIDEO THAT GOES VIRAL

http://tinyurl.com/ae7q5jc

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 11:53 AM (LpQbZ)


To catch them is my quest.
To train them is my cause!

Posted by: Ash Ketchum at December 10, 2012 12:00 PM (sZTYJ)

166 What do you guys think about that?

It's too late. We don't have the money.

Posted by: dick cheese at December 10, 2012 12:00 PM (QupBk)

167 Btw, We Don't Have The Money has become my answer to every liberal proposal.

Posted by: dick cheese at December 10, 2012 12:01 PM (QupBk)

168 Start Page via Fire Fox is supposedly the most private search engine. Start Page is "google enhanced" but not controlled nor keeps ip addy's. Down side as I don't allow cookies unless needed to partake in e-commerse. Also be warned this site is a pain in the azz to navigate. There is not refresh application and in order to reach latest comments, I need to repeatedly go back to front page, then re-click comments.

Posted by: Deli LLama at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (lGu1O)

169 Full pension? For failure? Hells to the no.

My company a few years back, "fired" all of the middle management corporate types. Those people then had to reapply for their job. Most were kept on, a few were let go. Many positions were eliminated.

Posted by: Bruce at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (Q6u7O)

170 It's wrong to demonize all teachers. There are many good teachers who work hard and earn their pay. The problem isn't teachers, it's teachers unions and a mindset among many parents that they have no role to play in their child's education. Get rid of the unions, get rid of the bottom 6%, get the unruly kids out of the classes, and let the good teachers teach, because they perform an important societal role.Then work on getting parents engaged.

Posted by: joncelli at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (RD7QR)

171 The people are by and large ignorant of things they should be quite intimate.

Take Kearny NJ, I lived there for a few years.

Kearny, NJ has some of the highest property taxes in NJ, the average property tax burden is $7,000.

As you can imagine everyone complained bitterly about this, but every time the school budget came up for approval it passed by wide margins.

Taxes were raised, everyone complained, the school budget came up for passage, it passed with wide margins, repeat ad infinitum.

The last school budget was 48 Million dollars to educate less than 5,000 students.

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (RrD4h)

172 @165

Pokemon is a good alternative to dog/kid fighting. Too bad it requires literacy. Nintendo should release a fully voiced Pokemon game.

Posted by: JDTAY at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (a0nis)

173

Posted by: JDTAY at December 10, 2012 11:53 AM (a0nis)
___
startpage


Posted by: kallisto at December 10, 2012 11:54 AM (jm/9g)




eh?

Startpage offers you Web search results from Google in complete privacy!


from google to google?

Posted by: beach monday at December 10, 2012 12:03 PM (LpQbZ)

174
The last school budget was 48 Million dollars to educate less than 5,000 students.



Posted by: General Woundwort at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (RrD4h)

Yeah, but I'll bet they have awesome swimming pools.

Posted by: joncelli at December 10, 2012 12:04 PM (RD7QR)

175
"A federal judge has ruled it is unconstitutional for North Carolina
to issue pro-life license plates unless the state offers similar plates
supporting abortion rights."



OK, so you can get a plate that reads Choose Life or one that says Choose Death. In Colorado we have one that reads Respect Life. How'd we get away with that?

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:04 PM (1Y+hH)

176
@160
Fact #1) The way out of poverty is a good education
Fact #2) The worst school systems in America are inner city schools
Fact #3) The Democratic Party has owned every inner city school board in the last 40+ years
Fact #4) Inner city blacks vote almost exclusively for the Democratic Party
The D Party practices the Three D's when it comes to blacks in America. Keep 'em Dumb, keep 'em Down, and keep 'em Democrat's.

Posted by: Step Infetcht at December 10, 2012 12:05 PM (VDovR)

177 165 oh dear God. Biggest earworm ever

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:05 PM (uFY4s)

178 Kinda funny that FOX's reporter on the Egyptian Crisis is broadcasting from Jerusalem. I guess he is no idiot.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 12:05 PM (79ueO)

179 As you can imagine everyone complained bitterly
about this, but every time the school budget came up for approval it
passed by wide margins.

Taxes were raised, everyone complained,
the school budget came up for passage, it passed with wide margins,
repeat ad infinitum.

The last school budget was 48 Million dollars to educate less than 5,000 students.



Posted by: General Woundwort at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (RrD4h)


I've always thought there ought to be a requirement for voters to know something about what they are voting on before they can vote.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 10, 2012 12:05 PM (bb5+k)

180 @171

California once built a $500 million dollar school for 2000 students. The biggest problem with that act being that they've made everything else look sane by comparison.

Posted by: JDTAY at December 10, 2012 12:05 PM (a0nis)

181 While I'm ranting about SSI and before I have a stroke, I'll get ready for work--but first one last observation from long experience: If you ask an 18-21year old SSI recipient, "What is the disability you have?"--there is a 75% chance he/she won't know. That is anecdotal, yes, but it is true.

I think if you are going to doom a child you at least ought to tell him the name of his curse.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2012 12:05 PM (6H6FZ)

182 Posted by: General Woundwort at December 10, 2012 12:02 PM (RrD4h)

Fish sammich Friday made it all worthwhile, though.

Posted by: garrett at December 10, 2012 12:06 PM (cUmUy)

183 It's actually worse than the article suggests. We dealt with this in a reverse manner when we lived in Georgia. My oldest daughter is adopted and black, of Hatian decent. The African American experience is foreign to her. She had some major adjustment issues that led to behavioral problems after she arrived in the states, which landed her in pediatric emergency psyche wards on several occasions. The school was over involved and had me investigated by the state many times for neglect and abuse. I never had a formal complaint filed because I was dealing with false allegations both from school and from my daughter who was a very mixed up kid. State insisted I file for SSI because all this was a financial strain of course, AND they disapproved because I was adamant about keeping my job ( which was difficult). They continually bad mouthed my " private insurance" as inferior to Medicare. It got to the point where I was afraid they would charge me with neglect if I did not apply for SSI for her, although by this time she was improving. They did not want to accept that she was improving. I finally applied knowing I would be rejected because of my income. When it came back as denied they told me how to appeal it in order to get approved: in otherwords, game the system. I drug my feet and happily found a job in another state. I am happy to report that my daughter continued to improve and attends a school that expects personal responsibility and accountability. They will not allow her to play victim and/ or enable that type of behavior. It makes all the difference in the world.

This is what we are fighting. They want control. There's a whole lot more to my story but that will take a book. And I'm actually considering writing it. This is a fight worth having, but individuals alone are nearly helpless against the machine.

Posted by: small town girl at December 10, 2012 12:06 PM (ymWVT)

184
Btw, We Don't Have The Money has become my answer to every liberal proposal.


Hell we don't even have the money to pay the interest on the loan required for every lib proposal.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:06 PM (1Y+hH)

185 In Colorado we have one that reads Respect Life. How'd we get away with that?

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:04 PM (1Y+hH)


Dude was choomin when he stamped the approval.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 12:07 PM (da5Wo)

186 160 You know that rigid class system they hate so much?

They've created it.

I wish they taught the Law of Unintended Consequences in law school.

---

Problem being that it wouldn't take, as those who fail history are doomed to repeat it. Unless the schools practice "social promotion."

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 12:07 PM (e0xKF)

187 180 wow just wow

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:09 PM (uFY4s)

188 If all property taxes are deductible, then everyone in the U.S. who pays taxes pays for the teachers and all public employees in high tax states like Cali, NY, NJ, ect... Not Fair!

Posted by: Deli LLama at December 10, 2012 12:09 PM (lGu1O)

189 What do you guys think about that?

Counteroffer: Resign now, renounce all right to a job in education, and you can walk away. Otherwise, you're fired, get nothing, and you may be prosecuted for crimes against humanity for your role in damaging a population.

Yeah, I'm not feeling generous today.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 10, 2012 12:09 PM (GBXon)

190
I think if you are going to doom a child you at least ought to tell him the name of his curse.

---

Depending on the household, the parent may not be able to answer that either.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 12:09 PM (e0xKF)

191 Dude was choomin when he stamped the approval.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 10, 2012 12:07 PM (da5Wo)We do have a lot of that going on here. My theory is THAT'S the "Brown Cloud" that hangs over the metroplex. It blows away betterup here in the mountains.

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:09 PM (1Y+hH)

192 And of course Google is a flaming liberal company. Again another example of liberals living by their motto: Do as we say, Not as we do!
And wait until the tax rates go up
Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 11:50 AM (79ueO)

Is Google, or Eric Schmidt agitating for higher taxes?

No?

Right. Not sure how this is hypocrisy.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:11 PM (FsUAO)

193 183 where do you live now

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:11 PM (uFY4s)

194 Not to say you shouldn't protect your privacy from Google if you fear their intentions, but kneejerk stuff is just quite silly.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:11 PM (FsUAO)

195 Kristof is writing from Breathitt County, Ky., deep in the Appalachian mountains, about mothers whose Supplemental Security Income benefits will decrease if their children learn to read. Kristof notes that 55% of children qualifying for SSI benefits do so because of “fuzzier intellectual disabilities short of mental retardation,” far more than four decades ago when SSI was just a new program.

Lazy, shif'less whitefolk who probably only watch Faux Noise when they ain't sexin' up they slower-runnin' sisters? Waall, goolllll - eeee!!

I guarantee you Kristof wouldn't dare write this piece about gang-banging, pimp-slapping, ho'-bustin' thugs in the hood, though - much safer to paint the white man as the welfare bum. Fuck him and his worthless 'newspaper.'

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 10, 2012 12:12 PM (zF6Iw)

196 191 Damn Californians

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:12 PM (uFY4s)

197 55 Just the ability to fire people makes people work harder

Absolutely.

I teach in a private school where there is no tenure, no union, and no such thing as job security. If the Headmaster doesn't like what I do, he can fire me, period. And yeah, that keeps me on my toes. Actually - I love it that way, love 'leaving it all on the field' at the end of the day, love competing for the students in my classes whose parents are voluntarily signing on to pay for the education my school provides even though they could send their kids to the local public school for free.

And yeah, no union means I get paid about half of what my public-school counterparts make, given equivalent background and experience. I wouldn't trade places with them, ever.

It amazes me that my colleagues are overwhelmingly leftist even while working at a school that - every day we keep our doors open - shows Milton Friedman right and Marx wrong. I hope we survive Marx' latter-day disciples, however.

Posted by: Union of One at December 10, 2012 12:13 PM (DFGPG)

198 Know shut? Fuck the NY slimes. Let them entertain Satan and his minions.

Posted by: maddogg at December 10, 2012 12:13 PM (OlN4e)

199 195 at least his racism admits somethings wrong

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:14 PM (uFY4s)

200
I got a massemail yesterday with a link to a site where you can upload a pic of yourself and the site will adjust it so you can see what youwill look like in 30 years.


I thought, "So, you will then have mypicture and my ISP. No thanks."I know fb already has it, but why add to the carnage?

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:15 PM (1Y+hH)

201 It's a shame that Liberals own the term liberal, because in their heart of hearts they are more reflexively conservative than most Conservatives.

Posted by: Wendy at December 10, 2012 12:15 PM (KydDZ)

202 Is Google, or Eric Schmidt agitating for higher taxes?

No?

Right. Not sure how this is hypocrisy.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:11 PM (FsUAO)


They made huge contributions to obama and to other liberal political action groups and hardly ever go out of their way to celebrate traditional American Holidays or significant Dates on their Google Home page. They are what their money says they are.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 12:15 PM (79ueO)

203 I thought, "So, you will then have mypicture and my ISP. No thanks."I know fb already has it, but why add to the carnage?
Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:15 PM (1Y+hH)

Upload your enemy's photo then?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:16 PM (FsUAO)

204 New York gave us Aaron burr, and fdr

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:16 PM (uFY4s)

205 Only Democrats care about skin color

Posted by: K~Bob at December 10, 2012 12:16 PM (8X89e)

206

Upload your enemy's photo then?


Hmmmm. Perhaps from my iphone when I'm on some tower away from home? I think the ISP changes when I do that.


*rubs hands gleefully*

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:17 PM (1Y+hH)

207 205 indeed

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:17 PM (uFY4s)

208 If you want to control SSDI and SSI, don't attack the benefit levels as that will elicit a storm if sob videos, cut the administrative side. Then let the truly disabled who cannot get thru the system rely on private charity. Eventually we can starve it, once the emotions are drained.

Posted by: Jean at December 10, 2012 12:18 PM (v9wwx)

209
"The hand that gives is among the hand that takes."
- Napolean Bonaparte

Posted by: BobAccosted Us at December 10, 2012 12:18 PM (uEm7J)

210 They made huge contributions to obama and to other liberal political action groups and hardly ever go out of their way to celebrate traditional American Holidays or significant Dates on their Google Home page. They are what their money says they are.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 12:15 PM (79ueO)

A tech company's workers donate to Dems.... stop the presses.

Guess you better stay off the entire internet in case a liberal profits off of your visit.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:18 PM (FsUAO)

211 I got a great job offer in Wyoming, and never looked back.

Posted by: small town girl at December 10, 2012 12:19 PM (k80Ik)

212 206 use your enemies ip to make death threats

Posted by: literate person at December 10, 2012 12:19 PM (uFY4s)

213 I'll start worrying once they are the ones campaigning for more govt power.

Or stops fighting the govts unconstitutional information grabs(that Bing doesn't fight by the way!)/

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:19 PM (FsUAO)

214 Guess you better stay off the entire internet in case a liberal profits off of your visit.Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:18 PM (FsUAO)Yes, that's the idea!-John Galt

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:20 PM (1Y+hH)

215 210 I see a banning in your future

Posted by: alex the prophet at December 10, 2012 12:20 PM (uFY4s)

216 There are plenty of reasons to not use Google. if you're so inclined, but switching to Bing to "fix" this is laughably naive.

At least try something like DuckDuckGo instead.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:21 PM (FsUAO)

217 Wanna see fireworks!
Mention "Waiting for Superman" in front of a (former, now retired) teacher.
Was at my wife's family for some function or another, they were talking about documentaries. I totally forgot that her aunt was a teacher (and no that's not sarcasm, I forgot. I think she was a computer lab teacher or some shit. In a fairly well off school district anyway, but I digress.)
I said "I just saw 'Waiting for Superman' I highly recommend it."
The next thing I saw was pure hatred in my Aunt-in-Law's eyes. Followed by a calm delivery of "I've never heard of that documentary" (standard deflection of "never heard of it, must not be important/influential.) I mentioned what it was about (more hatred). And she said "Well, I think I remember someone making something like that now that you mention it."

Crazed lunatics all of them! (The teachers unions....well and my wife's family.)

Bonus round, wasn't the dude who made that documentary a liberal? Once he saw the shit that was happening he had no choice but to make that movie (rather than one arguing the problem was not enough funding or something.)
Facts, how do they work?

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 10, 2012 12:21 PM (b3IgE)

218 Teachers unions must have weird elections if 6% can dominate 94%.

Posted by: Gerry at December 10, 2012 12:21 PM (2ifWQ)

219 211 wonderful nicento see a fellow Moroni living near me.

Posted by: alex the prophet of lincoln nebraska at December 10, 2012 12:22 PM (uFY4s)

220 There are plenty of reasons to not use Google. if you're so inclined, but switching to Bing to "fix" this is laughably naive.



At least try something like DuckDuckGo instead.


True, but MS is being remarkably nice promoting Bing right now.
I collect Xbox Points (which I then spend on games) just for doing searches. not gonna lie, that's pretty much the reason I switched. (I suppose that's not naive though....)
FWIW, both are I suppose equally evil on the privacy front.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 10, 2012 12:23 PM (b3IgE)

221 We need a new thread

Posted by: alex at December 10, 2012 12:24 PM (uFY4s)

222 220 bill gates and planned parenthood

Posted by: alex at December 10, 2012 12:25 PM (uFY4s)

223 True, but MS is being remarkably nice promoting Bing right now.
I collect Xbox Points (which I then spend on games) just for doing searches. not gonna lie, that's pretty much the reason I switched. (I suppose that's not naive though....)
FWIW, both are I suppose equally evil on the privacy front.
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 10, 2012 12:23 PM (b3IgE)

Yep. If you're actually worried you better stay away from the companies that have a lot of attention and a lot to lose from not caving to the govt.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:25 PM (FsUAO)

224
Teachers unions must have weird elections if 6% can dominate 94%.


You look like you could use a wood shampoo.

-PinkE. Ring (Union organizer)

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:26 PM (1Y+hH)

225
Teachers unions must have weird elections if 6% can dominate 94%.


You look like you could use a wood shampoo.

-Pink E. Ring (Union Organizer)

Posted by: Meremortal, time to slutdrop the GOPe at December 10, 2012 12:28 PM (1Y+hH)

226 We need a new thread

We haz new thread.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 10, 2012 12:28 PM (GBXon)

227 217 Wanna see fireworks!
Mention "Waiting for Superman" in front of a (former, now retired) teacher.
Was at my wife's family for some function or another, they were talking about documentaries. I totally forgot that her aunt was a teacher (and no that's not sarcasm, I forgot. I think she was a computer lab teacher or some shit. In a fairly well off school district anyway, but I digress.)
I said "I just saw 'Waiting for Superman' I highly recommend it."
The next thing I saw was pure hatred in my Aunt-in-Law's eyes. Followed by a calm delivery of "I've never heard of that documentary" (standard deflection of "never heard of it, must not be important/influential.) I mentioned what it was about (more hatred). And she said "Well, I think I remember someone making something like that now that you mention it."

Crazed lunatics all of them! (The teachers unions....well and my wife's family.)

Bonus round, wasn't the dude who made that documentary a liberal? Once he saw the shit that was happening he had no choice but to make that movie (rather than one arguing the problem was not enough funding or something.)
Facts, how do they work?

---

Had that kind of fun before with my wife's uncle a few months back.

His wife is a public school teacher in north Louisiana and he decided to bring up a discussion about Bobby Jindal's school voucher program.

I tried to coach things in terms of "This is why south LA's schools are fucked up and how this could fix that" instead of outright picking a fight with him in front of my wife and daughter.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 10, 2012 12:30 PM (e0xKF)

228 Bonus round, wasn't the dude who made that documentary a liberal? Once he saw the shit that was happening he had no choice but to make that movie (rather than one arguing the problem was not enough funding or something.)Facts, how do they work?
Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 10, 2012 12:21 PM (b3IgE)


He was the guy who did Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth." It was delicious schadenfreude.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 10, 2012 12:30 PM (4df7R)

229 Kristof's wisdom is about four generations too late.

Posted by: Hand Solo at December 10, 2012 12:31 PM (vu3g7)

230 tsrblke
How does using Bing earn XBOX points? I like free shit.

Posted by: Butters at December 10, 2012 12:32 PM (NIZHJ)

231 1) White people have embraced the dependence culture as much as black people now, so its perfectly fine to show white people on the dole.

2) The fear of being fired is a prime incentive to produce. People who think that firing the bottom 6% won't do anything don't understand that. Imagine if you could never be fired. How many days would you just phone it in? (some of those are always expected, but consider how many MORE) Now imagine you are a hard-working teacher and see these asshats...I'm sure we would all claim we would re-double our efforts. In reality, you start losing morale and say fuck it.

3) Those 6% are probably concentrated in certain schools. A sub-par teacher only teaches about 1/2 a year's material in one year. If you are unlucky to get 2 of those in a row, in say, math, you will never, ever be able to catch up.

4) Tax Credit Vouchers would effectively neuter the unions and lead to whole schools being "fired." Sweden uses them. I guess the Dems only look to Europe for spending ideas, not efficiency and effectiveness ideas.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 10, 2012 12:32 PM (dZQh7)

232
Boehner and Co. spiked the copyright reform report.

They didn't just spike the report they fired the dude who wrote it just for writing it.

Really ought to tell you something about the GOP. The RIAA is way, way, way, way more important to them than you are.

Posted by: Entropy at December 10, 2012 12:32 PM (TULs6)

233 >>>119 RALEIGH, N.C. – A federal judge has ruled it is unconstitutional for North Carolina to issue pro-life license plates unless the state offers similar plates supporting abortion rights. U.S. District Court Judge James C. Fox ruled on Friday that North Carolina cannot produce or distribute the “Choose Life” plate. Judge Fox concluded, “The State’s offering of a Choose Life license plate in the absence of a pro-choice plate constitutes viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment.” As America goes down the crapper, it sure is nice the Courts have time to waste on shit like this?<<<

----------

Simple solution, distribute one that reads, "Choose Death".

Posted by: Javems at December 10, 2012 12:32 PM (nTgAI)

234 Teachers unions must have weird elections if 6% can dominate 94%.

Posted by: Gerry at December 10, 2012 12:21 PM (2ifWQ)


6% don't dominate. They are simply the vanguard of the revolution leading the rest in a non-hierarchical consensus...

Posted by: Iosef Stalin at December 10, 2012 12:33 PM (sZTYJ)

235 1) White people have embraced the dependence culture as much as black people now, so its perfectly fine to show white people on the dole.

Yes, it is. But it's intellectually dishonest to flat out ignore the black dependency culture as if it doesn't exist, which leftists do every single time the matter comes up.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 10, 2012 12:34 PM (4df7R)

236 I have a lot of family on my Dad's side still living in southeast Kentucky. Same story as others have posted here today; get what you can out of the system, don't work. I had cousins who'd mock me for wanting to do well in school and get a good job when I grew up.

The best thing my Mom and Dad did for me was move from Kentucky to Texas when I was 15.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread, The Least Interesting Man In The World at December 10, 2012 12:34 PM (cVfX0)

237 Guess you better stay off the entire internet in case a liberal profits off of your visit.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at December 10, 2012 12:18 PM (FsUAO)

I didn't say they could not do as they want with their money or that I was boycotting anything, so read my post more carefully next time. But are they hypocrites, you bet your ass they are.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 12:34 PM (79ueO)

238 In the UK, the government sent out notices that people on disability would have to have a medical check-up to show they continued to need it.

Suddenly 30% of those on the take decided they didn't have time to attend the appointment.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 10, 2012 12:35 PM (dZQh7)

239 219 lol Lincoln is a fair haul from Laramie!

Posted by: small town girl at December 10, 2012 12:35 PM (rVZBi)

240 Rather then focus on the bad teachers, which makes us racist. Focus on the destructive work rules set up by the teachers union. With any union, remember that they will trade a few dollars off of their members salary for inefficient rules that increase the workforce (dues payers), after they secure automatic payroll deduction of dues and a closed shop policy. The dramatic rise in cost per pupil isn't due to teachers getting more money, its more teachers and administrators per student.

The skill vs luck takedown that was post herein a few days back, that detailed the class size fallacy, should be read by all, as well.

Posted by: Jean at December 10, 2012 12:37 PM (RURIy)

241 I'm sorry, but simply getting rid of bad teachers isn't going to solve anything. Well, not everything. It will help - and getting rid of teachers' unions (which shouldn't exist anyway, just like unions in ANY public sector employment situation should be outlawed) will help. But the problem runs much, much deeper than just the unions.

My father was a public high school teacher for nigh 37 years. And, yes, he hated the unions, he hated the dictates from on high about "new education processes," and he hated watching the public education system rot out from underneath him. (He retired about 4 years ago). At the same time, he wasn't so ideologically blind to only blame the unions. The primary fault, the one that no laws will ever fix, is that of our dying culture. The deterioration of families and parental involvement, two symptoms of said cultural death, are the biggest, and most important and difficult to solve, problems leading directly the decline in public education.

Letting kids go to private schools instead of forcing them into public schools will only help a few - the same few that would, in all likelihood, achieve greater things anyway, because that few will already have a familial/cultural background of hard work and achievement. All THAT will lead to is more and more "gaps" in education which, of course, will "disproportionately affect minorities," giving liberals more and more to stamp their feet about. (And spend money on).

No, our problem is NOT the unions (they are merely an exacerbating factor). Our problem is a cultural one that will not be solved by getting rid of unions and, contrary to a documentary's commentator, most certainly NOT by just getting rid of the "bottom 6%" of teachers. That is nonsense, but it sure does make a good soundbyte.

Oh - and for those that say the liberal teachers' unions "created" our cultural decline - also wrong. If there was a strong cultural backbone to begin with, if the poison were not already present, all the liberal "indoctrination" would never have had the opportunity to take hold, as a student going back to his family would have been quickly corrected. This cultural rot started centuries before the teachers' unions, or our own nation, ever existed.

Posted by: Patrick at December 10, 2012 12:37 PM (LrlHu)

242 The EU is "deeply dismayed" by Israeli plans for new West Bank settlements which threaten peace efforts, according to a draft prepared for the union's foreign ministers Monday.

"The European Union is deeply dismayed by and strongly opposes Israeli plans to expand settlements in the West Bank," said a draft of the conclusions on the Middle East peace process reached at a one-day meeting in Brussels.

But Arabs threatening to destroy Israel, not so much

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 10, 2012 12:38 PM (79ueO)

243 "Yes, it is. But it's intellectually dishonest to flat out ignore the black dependency culture as if it doesn't exist, which leftists do every single time the matter comes up."

Its politically correct perhaps, but since white people seem to have become very similar, it does not really important to keep pointing out the blacks.

What that does is:

1) Help some white people imagine its only blacks who are the problem.
2) Let liberals say we are racist.
3) Provides a great reason for them to ignore your arguments.

Sometimes its okay to not go around pointing out hypocrisy like liberals do all the time. Its why we are not liberals.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 10, 2012 12:38 PM (dZQh7)

244 People who think that firing the bottom 6% won't do anything don't understand that.



Posted by: Sexypig at December 10, 2012 12:32 PM (dZQh7)

Hello, straw man!

Posted by: KG at December 10, 2012 12:39 PM (p7BzH)

245 "No, our problem is NOT the unions (they are merely an exacerbating factor). Our problem is a cultural one that will not be solved by getting rid of unions and, contrary to a documentary's commentator, most certainly NOT by just getting rid of the "bottom 6%" of teachers. That is nonsense, but it sure does make a good soundbyte."

Ok, then let's make a new rule that no one can ever be fired for anything, and then see how your claim that the firing incentive does not exist holds up.

I suspect that you will quickly change your mind.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 10, 2012 12:40 PM (dZQh7)

246 Posted by: Butters at December 10, 2012 12:32 PM (NIZHJ)

Bing rewards. Sign up, do searches. For every 2 searches or somesuch you get 1 pt. (There are usually bonus points if you'll do stuff like their "Holiday Shopping Search.")

When you get 500 pts or something you can cash it in for 400 MS pts ($5.)
After so many points the cost drops to like 480. I have to do a lot of web searching for work, so I usually cash out about 1/quarter. And I don't spend Xbox points that quickly, so it basically balances my output.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 10, 2012 12:41 PM (b3IgE)

247 You cannot fix the culture easily. If you have a plan to make parents care more and not have single parent families I am all ears.

But you can fire the incompetent teachers. Again, imagine if you have a bad math teacher for 2 years in a row. How do you think that 3rd year of math with an average teacher is going to go?

If you are a business owner, you already know that firing incompetents is useful. Unless they are your family members, in which case find them a place where they can do the least damage and prepare to sigh a lot.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 10, 2012 12:43 PM (dZQh7)

248 tsrblke
Thanks. I logged in and I have 20. I thought said I would get 250 for signing up? I see free DLC's in my future. Thanks.

Posted by: Butters at December 10, 2012 12:44 PM (NIZHJ)

249 Posted by: Butters at December 10, 2012 12:44 PM (NIZHJ)

IIRC, it took a few days for that to show up. It's on a delay sometimes.
Also do the walk through clicks they want you to do (I think there's like 100 pts there alone.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 10, 2012 12:45 PM (b3IgE)

250 "Hello, straw man!"

OK, perhaps I should amend that to firing 6% of the teachers will have far more effect than simply removing them.

"Firing the bottom 6% of teachers will solve, approximately, 6% of problems."

But this does smack of "it won't help!" no?

Posted by: Sexypig at December 10, 2012 12:47 PM (dZQh7)

251 Go stand outside your local Social Security office and look at the people applying for benefits.

Better yet, go to place like Jersey City, NJ and do that observation. It will take about five minutes to figure out why that program is going broke.

The abuse is not only indicative of government fiscal irresponsibility the moocher class, but also ingrained into the population. It is fraud perpetrated by word of mouth and people approving the benefits who are largely sympathetic and indifferent- to the point it is institutionalized corruption.

But we are taking food from babies. And the elderly. And we hate puppies and kittens.

Meanwhile most of those people could and should be working.

But work is for stupid people and slobs like us. Who pay taxes. So they can get up at noon and get paid to drink coffee in their pajamas all day.

Posted by: marcus at December 10, 2012 12:47 PM (GGCsk)

252 #247 Mickey Kaus wrote an article almost 20 years ago that advocated for forcing ALL public benefit recipients to get a job. Making a girl get a job after her first illegitimate baby will provide a powerful incentive for her to not have any more, because she can't take care of them and work and will probably get fired if she does. Making her go to work makes her learn and appreciate skills like reading and writing well, which she will then pass along to her kid before it gets to school. It forces her to grow up and live in the world of adults with paychecks and responsibilites. It teachers her what taxes are and how to budget for food and rent and utilities.

And if she really, realy hates working, she can always marry the baby's daddy and stay home, which further helps the child and improves its odds for future success.

As Kaus said, when it comes to welfare policy, only work works.

Posted by: rockmom at December 10, 2012 12:52 PM (NYnoe)

253 #251 My 60-year-old, suburban, white, successful CEO brother recently got an email from the Social Security Administration "inviting" him to apply for SSDI! He was like, WTF??

The government is actively marketing the SSDIprogram to (a) get people off the unemployment rolls so they don't count in the official UE rate anymore, and (b) get older workers to retire early to free up their jobs.

Posted by: rockmom at December 10, 2012 12:56 PM (NYnoe)

254 "As with SSI, one imagines that those responsible for extending benefits
to those not previously eligible did so out of a sense of generosity.
But as I noted, “there is also a human cost."

Yes, the cost is the recipient's soul.

Posted by: Kevin at December 10, 2012 12:59 PM (ufexm)

255 "fire merely the bottom 6% of teachers, 90% of the problems with public education would be solved."

Well, no. As much as I like "Waiting for Superman," and as much as I despise public unions, there are other problems with pub ed besides bad teachers. There is the inner-city culture against "acting white." There are parents who don't care. There are kids who have behavior problems, and those who have low IQs, who are therefore ineducable.

Yes, fire bad teachers. Yes, offer vouchers. Yes, get rid of the huge hordes of unnecessary expensive adminstrative personnel. Yes, crush the public unions. Yes, go to a 240-day school year. Yes, clean all the lefty indoctrinators out of teacher-education academia. Do all that! You still won't fix "90%" of pub ed problems.

Posted by: gp at December 10, 2012 01:08 PM (+Jpqc)

256 Okay y'all, here is your issue with which to beat the democrats to death: A federal income tax deduction for private school tuition. The Dems will oppose it because of their allegiance to the teachers unions. Black and Latino parents will support it because the schools in their areas suck. And you are using the free market to bring educational reform. Get with the damn program!

Posted by: Al From Bay Shore at December 10, 2012 01:08 PM (s+f26)

257 Yes, the cost is the recipient's soul.

Go on.

Posted by: mephistopheles at December 10, 2012 01:09 PM (QupBk)

258 "And if she really, realy hates working, she can always marry the baby's
daddy and stay home, which further helps the child and improves its odds
for future success."

Yeah, because we all know that the underclass is just full of baby daddies who want more than anything else to marry the women they've knocked up, and who are fully prepared to go bust their asses at full time low wage jobs to support the resulting kids. Why, those guys are lining up as we speak.

And what happens when the baby daddy in question has produced children with half a dozen other women? Does he marry all of them polygamously? And does he then undertake to support all of the kids (nine in the case referenced below) while working at a burger stand?

http://tinyurl.com/b7foace

Want to know what would work a hell of a lot better than the present arrangement? FDR style rural "conservation corps" labor programs. In camps. Remote camps.

Young underclass mom shows up with a kid she can't feed, "fathered" by an illiterate unemployed "baby daddy"?

Great. Sign her up for the corps. She can go spend the next couple of years doing hard physical work in the clean air and sunshine, located out in the ass end of nowhere, planting thousands of trees. No skill set required. No ability to read required. With no drugs, no alcohol, no junk food via EBT, no new baby daddies around to cause more trouble. Her child will spend most of the day away from her in supervised care while she works, which in the case of the majority of underclass mothers will be a huge boon to the child.

You can bet that most of the "tree planting" that would result would be of essentially useless, low yield, easily eroded quality. That's not the point of the policy. The point is to contain the damage that these dimwitted young moms do to themselves, their kids and the public fisc.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 10, 2012 01:10 PM (ymG7s)

259
1) White people have embraced the dependence culture as much as black people now, so its perfectly fine to show white people on the dole.



Absolutely. That's what I meant above about recruiting for the Free Shit Army. The initial giveaways were to blacks, but then dirtbag whites saw the opportunity, and enlisted in the Free Shit Army too. As is was intended that they would. Giveaways to blacks were just the thin edge of the Dem wedge.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 10, 2012 01:20 PM (4u2LN)

260 "I once had a conversation with a far Left professor, and he claimed the
solution to the teacher problem was to get rid of all the bad teachers
by letting them go with full pensions etc. on analogy to a dismissal
from the military "with honor", and then impose high standards for new
incoming teachers."

That might work, if local officials and unions were actually interested in improving the quality of education. But they're not - or rather, the quality of education is peripheral to their principal goal of maximizing their power and wealth.

The Left complains bitterly about "privatization" of schools when a for-profit company is allowed to run a charter school; but they ignore the fact that the NEA is a private corporation that has been given nearly unlimited power in running the nation's schools. But they don't care: everything, *everything* for them is politics, and the NEA is one of their strongest allies.

Posted by: Brown Line at December 10, 2012 01:20 PM (VrNoa)

261 Wasn't it LBJ that said about the war on poverty,paraphrasing, we pass this legislation and well have the "negra" vote for the next 200 years.

Posted by: deepred at December 10, 2012 01:27 PM (YmACv)

262 A reformer in Waiting for Superman made this point: If school districts had the power to fire (without the heavy union interference) merely the bottom 6% of teachers, 90% of the problems with public education would be solved.

Ace, this is pure fantasy. The 90% part.

If that horrible 6% is replaced, but the same number of children coming to school are arriving as they are today - unprepared to learn, with no concept of authority - nothing will change.

A school in which 80%+ of kids come from single-parent homes will always perform more poorly than a school with children from two-parent homes. Always. The best teacher in the world can't change that fact. Even the best single parents can only do half of what the most engaged two parents can do.

Posted by: CJ at December 10, 2012 01:38 PM (9KqcB)

263 "As with SSI, one imagines that those responsible for extending benefits
to those not previously eligible did so out of a sense of generosity."

Using the power of government to coerce money from one party to give to another, is NOT generosity!

Posted by: dan at December 10, 2012 02:46 PM (vQtvL)

264 There's several points to take away from all this

1) Could his piece have been written about Baltimore? Of course. Is his story stronger or weaker because he focused on white trash instead of black trash? Did he assume - probably correctly - that his readers (that is, comfortable liberal Amercan upper-middle-class) are basically racist and would think "oh, that's just what black people *do*" if he wrote about the projects?

2) Someday I'll get around to posting my piece, somewhere, about signal-to-noise. All stable and reliable systems - electronic or human - are built to tolerate some degree of dysfunction. A computer network that had no provision for retrying lost packets would soon prove useless to everyone. The flip-side of this is that a network where lost-packet retries are a significant proportion of the traffic quickly proves just as useless.

The same is true in human relationships. A healthcare system that shifts the cost of the uninsured onto the insured (which has really meant 'employed') works just fine as long as the uninsured represent a small proportion of the total patient population.

An educational system that is staffed and funded in the assumption that most kids are prepared, and most teachers are competent, can 'route around' a small number of unprepared kids and a small number of incompetent teachers.

But what happens when, as is the case in probably half of California's school districts, you fairly quickly ramp up to a point where 30% and sometimes many more of the incoming kids almost never speak English outside of school?

All of our systems - and I'm not talking just government - Medicare, Social Security, disability, education, health insurance - all fall apart when the signal/noise ratio falls below a certain level.

And it's not a linear degradation, it's a potential collapse. Let's say you're a big retail website, and the backend databases that your site works against have a 99.95% cache hit ratio. That is, for every 10000 database requests that hit your servers, 9995 are served from the memory cache and only 5 end up requiring a (much more system-intensive) disk request.

This is your normal. This is what you plan and budget for, plus a reasonable margin - maybe a 20-25% change in load, maybe more during peak seasons.

Some bright product manager gets a coder to make a change that results in that cache hit ration falling to 99.9%, and it gets through to production.

That's just a 0.05% change, right?

No, you've now gone from 5 disk requests per 10000 to 10 per 10000. The bright boys just DOUBLED the physical disk overhead of the system. A significant proportion of your customer base just gave up on buying from you.

The same applies in the real world. Let's say in a town, let's say 10000 people you have one mugger. Then, lets say you have budget cutbacks and the prison gates are opened and now suddenly that town has two muggers.

Oh, that's a really tiny number, isn't it? No, you've just doubled the crime rate in your town. How are you going to deal with that?


Posted by: JEM at December 10, 2012 02:59 PM (o+SC1)

265 You've got to be careful when you say "poor kids only have one way up and out: education."

While it's absolutely true that education reform is desperately needed, and I don't refute the general direction of your point, historically we can see that deregulation can also go a long, long way towards letting kids succeed. Ultimately it leads to the same place - the young adult has an idea, and has the freedom to pursue that idea, so they end up educating themselves and they succeed - but it's not necessarily because the schools have gotten better. Instead, it's because we've taken the jack-boot off of everyone's neck and allowed inventiveness to succeed.

In most towns you can't sell hot dogs from a cart without buying an absurdly over-priced license. You can't rent a room to someone in your house. You can't even have chickens in your yard - even if you have half an acre - in a lot of places.

The list of what you CAN'T do is enormous, and it stifles the economy at all levels, including that of the teenager. The unemployment rate for inner city teens is staggering, and getting worse. Obama-care promises to make it worse yet again - yet another stumbling block in front of kids.

I agree that schools have to be reformed, hugely, but there's more to it than that.

Posted by: RobM1981 at December 10, 2012 03:51 PM (4WC+3)

266 T-T-T-TIMMAH!!!!!

Posted by: thirdtwin at December 10, 2012 04:14 PM (QjSgY)

267 OK, I've been a "lurker" on this blog for far too long, and I figure I might as well jump into all this by affixing my tongue firmly to the entitlement "third rail".

I served in the Army for three years. I was honorably discharged because of damage to my lower extremities and back (combat-training related, not from combat). Apparently, I suffered enough head trauma in training to cause some pretty severe neurological conditions. I'm 28. I want to work. I want to start a company. I want to write a novel. I want to finish my college degree. I've spoken three languages besides English in my lifetime, lived in the Soviet Union, the Czech Republic, and Finland. I feel like I have a lot to contribute. I have a three-year-old daughter from my first (and only) marriage.

I'm currently torn, and depressed, because while I'm rated as 40% disabled by the Department of Veterans' Affairs, that compensation is nowhere near enough to live on. I doubt I can hold down a job because of the aforementioned medical issues (google Meniere’s disease if you want an idea of what I deal with). It looks like my only real option is to apply for SSDI - something that I am completely against, from a political/social standpoint. I know that I probably qualify for food stamps, but I haven't applied for those because I don't believe I should.

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this - can you still be a conservative if you're on government support? If that's the route I'm forced to go down (and my daughter means more to me than anything else in the world, so I'll swallow my pride to take care of her) I'm going to try to complete the novel I've been working on, in the interest of getting my butt off of any government support.

Again, let me know what you guys think. This has been one the most trying times in my life.

Posted by: Sterlingthebandit at December 10, 2012 04:33 PM (cih6B)

268 can you still be a conservative if you're on government support?

Absolutely. A man's gotta do what he's gotta do, and looking out for his own is what he's got to do.

Posted by: dick cheese at December 10, 2012 05:43 PM (QupBk)

269 Mr. Cheese,

I appreciate the vote of support. Like I said, this is a pretty wrenching decision for me.

Posted by: Sterlingthebandit at December 10, 2012 05:48 PM (cih6B)






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Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat