Sunday Morning Book Thread 12-09-2012: Comic Book Graphic Novel Edition [OregonMuse]


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Good morning, 'rons and 'ettes, and welcome to the full-color, yet darkly brooding Sunday Morning Book Thread.


Another Awesome Content Provider

That would be Stan Lee. I think he's in the Guiness Book of World Records for being one of the most prolific writers ever.

In collaboration with several artists, most notably Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, he co-created Spider-Man, the Hulk, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Thor, and many other fictional characters, introducing complex, naturalistic characters and a thoroughly shared universe into superhero comic books

Those Marvel comics you read as a kid? Lee pretty much wrote 'em all:

Throughout the 1960s, Lee scripted, art-directed and edited most of Marvel's series, moderated the letters pages, wrote a monthly column called "Stan's Soapbox," and wrote endless promotional copy, often signing off with his trademark phrase "Excelsior!"

How did he do it? How did he crank out so much copy, week after week?

To maintain his taxing workload, yet still meet deadlines, he used a system that was used previously by various comic-book studios, but due to Lee's success with it, became known as the "Marvel Method" or "Marvel style" of comic-book creation. Typically, Lee would brainstorm a story with the artist and then prepare a brief synopsis rather than a full script. Based on the synopsis, the artist would fill the allotted number of pages by determining and drawing the panel-to-panel storytelling. After the artist turned in penciled pages, Lee would write the word balloons and captions, and then oversee the lettering and coloring. In effect, the artists were co-plotters, whose collaborative first drafts Lee built upon.

I must confess that I was never much of a fan of this genre. Can't recall ever actually buying a Marvel or DC comic book. And when I read one of my friend's copies, the story had always started in an earlier edition and would not finish until a later one, so I never could really get started.

Not until my teen years, and then I didn't read superhero comics, but rather the 'underground' comics found here (some pages NSFW). I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 70s, hippie culture was in full bloom, and I, being young and stupid, wanted very much to be part of it. I didn't drop acid or go to any Vietnam war protests. I was too young for that. Instead, I read underground comix. And fantasized a lot about hippie chicks. Right on, man. Fight the power.

And then at some point, comic books became 'graphic novels', but I didn't read those, either. However, I did eventually discover an amazing biographical story called Maus, which I would unhesitatingly recommend to anyone. Even if you have never read (or maybe don't even like) graphic novels, this is one you need to read.

And is it my imagination, or are most comic book artists raging lefties?


From the Mailbag

Rob Neal highly recommends the sci-fi novel The Unincorporated Man by Dani and Eytan Kollin. I have never heard of it until now, but I admit it has an intriguing premise. From the Amazon blurb:

A billionaire businessman from our time, frozen in secret in the early 21st century, is discovered in the far future and resurrected, given health and a vigorous younger body. He awakens into a civilization in which every individual is formed into a legal corporation at birth, and spends many years trying to attain control over their own life by getting a majority of his or her own shares. Life extension has made life very long indeed.

Justin Cord is the only unincorporated man in the world, a true stranger in this strange land. Justin survived because he is tough and smart. He cannot accept only part ownership of himself, even if that places him in conflict with a civilization that extends outside the solar system to the Oort Cloud.

This is the first of a series. It is followed by, The Unincorporated War, then
The Unicorporated Woman and The Unincorporated Future

And that's it for this week. As always, book thread tips, suggestions, and insults may be sent to aoshqbookthread@gmail.com

So what have you all been reading this past week? Something good I hope.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 11:32 AM



Comments

1 Ahh, its back up again. I'm reading moron recommended "The Tomb" and rereading "Mere Christianity".

Posted by: countrydoc at December 09, 2012 11:35 AM (LpeHY)

2 Still have 1970s X-men comics sealed and wrapped. Although with the collapse of the comic book collectors market, don't know why I bother. Sentiment, I guess.

Posted by: countrydoc at December 09, 2012 11:38 AM (LpeHY)

3 I was never a mainstream comic reader either. The stories were scattered across so many titles you had to buy that month, ugh. And frankly super hero comics did not excite me.

So that is how I ended up reading such independent comics as Omaha the Cat Dancer and Albedo. Then I fell into the addiction called manga with Shirow's Black Magic MA-66. Been doomed ever since.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:38 AM (Sz+px)

4 I'm about twenty pages into the Communist Manifesto. So far, it's eye rolling levels of stupid.

Posted by: Secundus at December 09, 2012 11:38 AM (d36EI)

5 Is this my very own private book thread, or have I entered a parallel universe? Maybe the Mayan apocalypse came early and no one invited me. Bastards.

Posted by: countrydoc at December 09, 2012 11:39 AM (LpeHY)

6 Secundus pick up Will Eisner's 'The Plot.' Its the story behind the creation of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Told as a graphic novel, came out in 2005. Do not think you will roll your eyes reading it.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:41 AM (Sz+px)

7 That pic reminds me of those color-it-yourself black light posters from Spencer's Gifts.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 09, 2012 11:42 AM (piMMO)

8 Secundus, as I recall it that sucker only runs to about 20 pages. So, you're almost done!

Pay special attention to that "community of women" business. Says it all, for me.

Posted by: comatus at December 09, 2012 11:46 AM (qaVK+)

9
Thanks, Anna, but I've got a huge backlog of books to finish. I'll keep it in mind, though.

Posted by: Secundus, Life Coach at December 09, 2012 11:47 AM (d36EI)

10 Halfway through Nelson DeMille's "Wild Fire," written a few years after 9-11. Found it on the $1 table at the 'brary. When anothercommenter said DeMille's recurring character John Corey was "Moron material," I couldn't pass it up.

Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2012 11:48 AM (tQHzJ)

11 Reading Michael Chabon's Telegraph Avenue. Chabon's an ass, but he can really write. The story's about midwifery, blaxploitation movies, jazz and funk records, extended families and food. Highly recommended, but maybe from the library. No point in funding assholes.

Posted by: spongeworthy at December 09, 2012 11:49 AM (r5w1L)

12 I finished "No Easy Day" about the raid to kill bin Laden last week. Pretty good, if simplistic, look at SEALs and the way they run their missions. I think the accusation that the author released sensitive material is bull. I heard more about the mission from the non-existent WH leakers.

This week, I'm reading "A Wanted Man", the most recent Jack Reacher book. It starts up right where the last one ended, with Reacher hitching a ride. Looks promising. Funny thing, in the book he's still 6'5" and not Tom Cruise size.

Posted by: huerfano at December 09, 2012 11:49 AM (bAGA/)

13 Well I used one of the characters in that Kollin novel, as one of my handles, almost dystopian in it's libertarian vision, of a world that rebuilds after a nuclear exchange, where the title character, emerges Buck Rogers like, in the graphic novel category, there is Greg Rucka's 'Queen and Country' series, sort of a modern version of the SandBaggers, with a female MI-6 operative, Tara Chace.

Posted by: phillip fry at December 09, 2012 11:52 AM (ctjsq)

14 Who wants to start listing obscure WWII books they have read. Ryan's 'The Longest Day' would naturally not count.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:52 AM (Sz+px)

15 Stan Lee era comics had every sentence ending with an exclamation mark.

The loss of that punctuation mark signaled the transformation of comics to graphic novels.

And boobehs.

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 11:52 AM (frNqd)

16 Who wants to start listing obscure WWII books they have read. Ryan's 'The Longest Day' would naturally not count.

Would Von Ryan's Express count?

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 09, 2012 11:54 AM (/yaKd)

17 Frank Miller and Alan Moore were the biggest names to turn kid comics into more adult stories in the United States. In Japan they had Barefoot Gen already.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:54 AM (Sz+px)

18 I'm waiting to discuss the latest book club book "This is How You Lose Her" with my fellow club members, then on to something new after Christmas break.

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 11:55 AM (frNqd)

19 Oregon Muse, I would say that qualifies.

Here is another - 'The German Raider Atlantis.'

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:56 AM (Sz+px)

20
Posted by: comatus at December 09, 2012 11:46 AM (qaVK+)

My favorite bit so far:

quote: The Communists are distinguished from the other working class parties by this only: (1) In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. (2) In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.

End quote.

In English: We hereby declare ourselves to be in charge of all you knuckle dragging proles.

I also like the bits where they talk about how great the Middle Ages were for the Working Man.

Posted by: Secundus, Life Coach at December 09, 2012 11:56 AM (d36EI)

21 &

Posted by: Thorvald at December 09, 2012 11:57 AM (RFasm)

22 Who wants to start listing obscure WWII books they have read. Ryan's 'The Longest Day' would naturally not count.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:52 AM (Sz+px) Rocket Fighter, by Mano Zeigler. He was a Luftwaffe test pilot involved in the ME-163 Komet program. Lots of people get blown up and melted by caustic rocket fuel. Oh, and the planes sucked.

Posted by: Secundus, Life Coach at December 09, 2012 11:59 AM (d36EI)

23 @ Anna Puma - Shirow's Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell forever altered my life. I watched the anime of Black Magic M-66, which I liked a lot, then I read the manga which was great. Still reading manga 25 years later, though i find it hard to find stuff that matches Shirow's work.

I finished Brian Ruckley's Godless War series last week, which was good. I am reading Michael Courtenay Grimwood's Assassini, which, if I had known it involved vampires, werewolves and plots from Shakespeare, I would have avoided.

I am moving onto Chase Novak's Breed, which came highly recommended to me from a friend.

Posted by: Penfold at December 09, 2012 11:59 AM (wT+sh)

24 Finished Rose in Bloom, which prompted me to get a free Kindle copy of Emerson's Essays because they're part of the story. Also finished So You Want to Own a Gun (or something close to that) which I'll need to read over again as there's a lot of info involved.

Started Anabastes (sp?) Which was reccomended on this thread a while back. It looks like excellent proof that human nature is the same no matter when and where.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 09, 2012 11:59 AM (y39Xz)

25 The Siege of Budapest by Krisztian Ungvary.

Posted by: Penfold at December 09, 2012 12:00 PM (wT+sh)

26 Neo-Neocon had a superb thread a couple of days ago entitled "We have never recovered from World War I".

http://neoneocon.com/2012/12/07/we-have-never-recovered-from-world-war-i/

It's mainly about the cultural and psychological aftereffects of that war. However, there are plenty of commenters (cough) who chose to talk about the war itself.

Both the original post and the comments are essential reading, whether you're interested in military history or not. There are tons of book recommendations sprinkled throughout.

Posted by: rickl at December 09, 2012 12:06 PM (sdi6R)

27 Penfold, track down Exon Depot by Shirow. Its a short story told without words. Appleseed 5 seems destined to never see the light of day. Nuerohard is something else we will probably never see finished because so much source material was destroyed in the Kobe earthquake. Ghost in the Shell 1, 1.5, and 2.0. For anime, Appleseed XIII is out there.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:07 PM (Sz+px)

28 OK. My kind of book thread.

For those of you who want a slightly-different view of superheroes, I recommend the Astro City graphic novels by Kurt Busiek and Brent Anderson. The focus is on the ordinary people as much as the heroes and villains, and how they deal with living in that world. Start with the first, "Life In The Big City". I also highly recommend "Confession" and my favorite, "Tarnished Angel", which is a noirish murder mystery that just happens to include costumed heroes.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 12:09 PM (5J54Q)

29 I read a great book by a guy who was in the Wehrmacht. It was really good but I can't think of the name and I can't find the book in my stacks. I guess this isn't much help.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 09, 2012 12:09 PM (85EaA)

30 The only comic I ever had wasn't DC or Marvel (i think.). It was GI Joe where Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow realized they were 'brothers.'

Posted by: RWC at December 09, 2012 12:09 PM (sqp6o)

31 Always read DC when I was a kid. Marvels seemed to continue story lines from the last issue and that always bothered me. DC always finished at the end. Oh, to have those comics back then

Posted by: Philo at December 09, 2012 12:13 PM (OxMN+)

32 'The Forgotten Soldier' by Guy Sajer?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:14 PM (Sz+px)

33 I've finally been reading the various Kindle samples that I've been downloading over the last year since a lot of my Christmas money from my in-laws is going to pay for books.

One of the books I decided to go ahead and get was Heinlein's Take Back Your Government. I got it in spite of the preface (by someone I've never heard of) where the tea party and OWS are spoken of as morally equal and "neocons, internationalists, and bankers" (which my understanding is Ron Paul-style speak for "Joooooos") are blamed for the government being unresponsive to the populis. The book itself doesn't seem to veer into that territory and I'm hoping it will help offset my current worry that nothing can be done.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 09, 2012 12:15 PM (y39Xz)

34 OMG,

Currently translating the Veda's..Sansrkrit sucks BTW!


From all indications..Obama sucks too!

Be well rons and ronettes!

It's bedtime for bonzo here!

Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at December 09, 2012 12:15 PM (BjDFr)

35 The Moon Maid (and its sequals). Prophetic. We're ruled over by the communist moon-men Kalkars and their earthmen lackys..

Posted by: meleager at December 09, 2012 12:15 PM (4Oojj)

36 How come ugly guys and ugly gals never get super powers?

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 12:16 PM (frNqd)

37 Sorry for OT, but did we get screwed out of the gun post or did i miss it?

Posted by: RWC at December 09, 2012 12:16 PM (sqp6o)

38 A lot of comic book creators are indeed raging lefties. It's why comics have largely gone to shit in recent years. They used to have editors who had a bit of sense, and reined in the some of the crazier impulses of the writers (Jim Shooter comes to mind; this is why Chris Claremont and John Byrne hate him so much), but now those guys are all retired and were replaced by the loopier creators the used to keep in line. The lunatics are running the asylum now.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at December 09, 2012 12:17 PM (RLZvP)

39 *bam bam*

eman opens door cautiously only to see it slam off the hinges.

"Why does eman hate Solomon Grundy?"

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:17 PM (Sz+px)

40 A few others to try:

"All-Star Superman". The writer gets to the core of the character. Not for those who like their heroes brooding and misanthropic.

The Walking Dead...the TV show is OK, but the graphic novels are much better, IMO.

"Asterios Polyp" by David Mazzucchelli. A drama in which the title character, after his home is destroyed, takes off as far as his money will take him. The book explores duality: reason vs. emotion; destiny vs. free will; and nature vs. nurture.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 12:18 PM (5J54Q)

41 10
Halfway through Nelson DeMille's "Wild Fire," written a few years after
9-11. Found it on the $1 table at the 'brary. When anothercommenter said
DeMille's recurring character John Corey was "Moron material," I
couldn't pass it up.

Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2012 11:48 AM (tQHzJ)


He's my favorite author. Loved 'Wild Fire'. I just got a couple of his books for my kindle that I'd not heard of before. "The Book Case" and "Death Benefit" each for $1.99.....and "The Panther" for $11.00.

Posted by: Tami at December 09, 2012 12:18 PM (X6akg)

42 *bam bam*

eman opens door cautiously only to see it slam off the hinges.

"Why does eman hate Solomon Grundy?"
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:17 PM (Sz+px)

Exception that proves the rule, plus ugly often linked to bad guy.

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 12:18 PM (frNqd)

43
I read mostly mainstream DC stuff such as Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, the Flash. IIRC, those were all self contained stories. Then came the Marvel stuff, which I didn't really like except for Spidey.

I also remember Haunted Tank and my personal favorite, being a sci-fi comic geek, Magnus, Robot Fighter.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 09, 2012 12:19 PM (yiIja)

44 RWC, gun thread is two down from this one.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 09, 2012 12:19 PM (y39Xz)

45 Barry Strauss' 'The Trojan War." Speculative but good research and history. Not about condoms like I thought.

Posted by: Libra at December 09, 2012 12:19 PM (kd8U8)

46 Polliwogette, never read that Heinlein story. Its only hopeless if we give up. Though DC might be hopeless to redeem so focus closer to home state I guess.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:20 PM (Sz+px)

47 Most graphic novels suffer from their origin, i.e.. comic books. Too much deus ex machina plotting.

But, here are a few that I've truly enjoyed that you may not know about and I thoroughly recommend:

"All Star Superman"
- if you've grown up with Superman, this one may break your heart a little.

"Johnny the Homicidal Maniac"
"Squee!"
-these are two dark, wildly comic GNs by Jhonen Vasquez, the guy who created/wrote the "Invader Zim" cartoons on Nickelodeon.

If you don't have all three seasons of Invader Zim on DVD, buy them now, no questions asked. Extremely moron friendly and absolutely hilarious.

As a sidenote: Nick used 911 as an excuse to get rid of this bizarrely comic cartoon.


"Uzumaki" by Junji Ito

This horror manga will bend your mind in an good way as "spirals" begin to take over all aspects (mental, physical, etc) of a country town in Japan.

They made a movie from this- it's.....okay.

"Octopus Girl"
- deeply Japanese horror-comedy involving a Japanese school girl who becomes OG. Nightmare logic and good story-telling smash up.

"Nightmare Alley"
- great graphic novel adaptation of the movie and book.

If you don't know this one and like noir, just pick it up, no questions asked.


"Sandman"
"Sin City"
- are both popular and both good but the writing varies wildly between episodes. From great to "meh" in a heartbeat.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 09, 2012 12:20 PM (G9qZk)

48 Warbler: Yeah, most of them are lefties. I've had..uh..discussions with a couple of them back when I was on Twitter. Makes it awfully hard to enjoy their work when they call you stupid...so I don't buy their stuff anymore.

Writer Chuck Dixon and artist Ethan VanSciver are the only two conservative-leaning comics people I'm aware of.


Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 12:21 PM (5J54Q)

49 In the car, it's "In the Garden of Beasts." I'm almost halfway and I think Martha Dodd may be starting to finally wake up. The completely casual anti-Semitism in America discussed early on was so appalling. And it's still going on with the bien pensant. Bastards.

I just finished a murder mystery, "Murder One" by Robert Dugoni. It was just OK. I picked it off the shelf at random but checked it out because it was set in Seattle. Mostly that was fine, but the author kep referring to "Puget Sound" as "the Puget Sound" and in 26 years of living here, I've never ever heard that.

I started Dominick Dunne's "Too Much Money" but I'm nearly half way through and I'm still looking for an actual plot, so I don't know if I'll finish it or not.

I finished "New Deal or Raw Deal" and I wasn't sure I could despise FDR more than I already did, but apparently I was wrong about that.

And I started one of Andrew Klavan's YA novels last night, "Crazy Dangerous." It's printed in a really annoying sans-serif font but I think there's a plot so I'll try to overlook that.

And the Kindle book is Paul Johnson's History of the Jews which is very enjoyable, as one might expect. Of course, no one's tried to kill them all yet.

BTW, I still keep track of Sunday Book Thread books on my librarything.com page. They are listed in the "Sunday Book Thread" collection, although I must admit not keeping track of manga or anime.

Posted by: Tonestaple at December 09, 2012 12:22 PM (BGruy)

50 Sorry for OT, but did we get screwed out of the gun post or did i miss it?

Sorry, there was an accidental collision between the gun thread and the book thread this morning. I was going to wait awhile to post the book thread, but Andy said it would be OK if I posted it now, so I did.

The gun thread should still be there below this one.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 09, 2012 12:23 PM (/yaKd)

51 Thanks Polliwog.



And this can't be good - Tekken-The movie. Yikes.

Posted by: RWC at December 09, 2012 12:23 PM (sqp6o)

52 Uzumaki makes me think of Baoh and Bio-Booster Armor Guyver.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:23 PM (Sz+px)

53 46 Anna Puma, it's not a novel but an actual "how-to" guide. I think it was reccomended sometime around Independence Day this year. Heinlein was politically active at a grassroots level and this is his guide for anyone who wants to affect government even if they have little time or money.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 09, 2012 12:24 PM (y39Xz)

54 RWC, if that is the Tekken movie from two years ago. Run away now. Do not watch it. Gamer friend and I went to see it in the theater. We both thought we got ripped off.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:25 PM (Sz+px)

55 No term nore annoying than "graphic novel" especially with the way it's thrown around on shit that isn't in fact a graphic novel. Unless it was printed in the first place as a graphic novel, it's a comic be it a limited series, collected tpb or mini series

Posted by: The Dude at December 09, 2012 12:25 PM (tw6Ar)

56 " And is it my imagination, or are most comic book artists raging lefties?"

Most, but not all. Baron and Rude (Nexus) are definitely not. Frank Miller is a raging *rightie.* Dave Sim is ... uncategorizable, but highly un-PC. Pete Bagge is South-Park-style ("I hate conservatives, but I *really* hate liberals") libertarian.

Posted by: Knemon at December 09, 2012 12:25 PM (6ejO+)

57 Here is a decent Military scifi book.

C.R.O.W.

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 12:27 PM (frNqd)

58 @52

Uzumaki makes me think of Baoh and Bio-Booster Armor Guyver.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:23 PM (Sz+px)


How so? I'm unfamiliar with Boah and BBAG, except for the Mark Hamill(?!) movie.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 09, 2012 12:28 PM (G9qZk)

59 Dave Sim, creator of Cerberus, is just plain whacked. He has truly jumped the shark.

Polliwogette, thanks for the clarification. Sounds interesting.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:28 PM (Sz+px)

60

My cherished graphic novel is:

The Sandman: The Dream Hunters

Artwork examples, here:

http://tinyurl.com/cvpcnf7

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 12:29 PM (LpQbZ)

61 The Guyver is the greatest movie ever made.

Ever.

Dy-no-mite!

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 12:30 PM (frNqd)

62

My cherished graphic novel is:

The Sandman: The Dream Hunters

http://www.amazon.com/The-Sandman-Dream-Hunters/dp/1563895730

Artwork examples, here:

http://tinyurl.com/cvpcnf7


*added amazon link

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 12:31 PM (LpQbZ)

63 I think one possible future of comics is iPad+voice over.

There have been some decent "motion comics" but I don't think the crude animation is even necessary. It's the voice-over that makes it something new and better.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2012 12:31 PM (R+6Q+)

64 Yeah, I'd forgot about Dave Sim. I love Cerebus, but the man has gone cookoo for Cocoa Puffs.

I'm giving myself a facepalm for not remembering Frank Miller. And of course, he's been vilified by a lot of comics fandom because of it.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 12:32 PM (5J54Q)

65 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2012 12:31 PM (R+6Q+)


Been done before and they don't work as it takes away from the comic medium

Posted by: The Dude at December 09, 2012 12:33 PM (tw6Ar)

66 My cherished graphic novel is:

The Sandman: The Dream Hunters

Artwork examples, here:

http://tinyurl.com/cvpcnf7

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 12:29 PM (LpQbZ)

There were some Superboy comics from the late Sixties about a robot assassin infiltrating Suberboy's home disguised as one of his "Uncles"
that were really well done.

Very creepy and moody with a strong horror feel to them.

Well, for a ten year-old boy like me.


Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 12:33 PM (frNqd)

67 Baoh is a horror manga where this teen is infected with an organism that allows him to transform into a monster.

Bio-Booster Armor Guyver is about this clandestine race by a global entity to recover these alien devices. They want these devices for the usual world domination thing. Low-grade types are called Zoanids. Sometimes when a device fuses with a human what is called a Lost Number is created, an aberration or failure. Finally there are three Guyver units that this organization wants. Two have merged with people opposed to the cabal while a third unit is damaged.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:33 PM (Sz+px)

68 I used to have a pretty decent graphic novel called Lightrunner, I think it was written in the early to mid 80s. Don't recall the author or artist, I think I lost it in a move somewhere. It paints a future where much is owned by corporations, and in a couple panels one of the characters goes on a screed about how no one owned anything anymore, it was all just "life-leases"--chillingly appropriate today. The main story isn't bad either, son of a famous warrior becomes a pawn in a scheme to use a new technology to overthrow the government, growing up and much mayhem ensues, epilogue shows the continued effects of a galaxy at war...worth a read if you can find it IMO.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at December 09, 2012 12:33 PM (83wHT)

69 Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 12:21 PM (5J54Q)

Bill Willingham

Posted by: The Dude at December 09, 2012 12:34 PM (tw6Ar)

70 Another reason American comics have gotten so bad is that the classic superheroes have been around so long they've become institutions. Remember what William F. Buckley said about instututions?

Manga is a different matter; Japanese creators have very little interest in American politics, so there's no preaching about how horrible American conservatives are.

Occasionally,you'll see an American character portrayed in a bad light, but Americans are mostly portrayed positively when they show up.

And the ultimate message of most manga I've read (I tend to favor romantic comedies) is one that's acceptable to conservatives; there may be a fair bit of raunchy humor, but the characters are largely monogamous, and respect their parents and families. Some stories are even strongly conservative in the end; Suzuka by Seo Kouji comes to mind.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at December 09, 2012 12:35 PM (RLZvP)

71 Beach, did you know they reissued Dream Hunters with art by someone else? After Amano, I found it bleah.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:35 PM (Sz+px)

72 Go read "Earth X" by Alex Ross and a bunch of hack scribes.

It explains everything in the Marvel Universe and it's a tremendously compelling story too.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2012 12:36 PM (I2LwF)

73 Comics has become such a ghetto sub-culture that the writers have no problem being raging lefties who insult their readers.

You'd think such a small entertainment genre would go out of its way to be accepting of all potential buyers. But no.

Seems that many are just trying to make a name so they can get into screenwriting or at least writing for animation.

How much money do comics writers and artists make anyway? I mean if they just do comics.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2012 12:36 PM (R+6Q+)

74 Maus never blew my socks off. I still have a copy around here somewhere.

Don't understand the cult appeal. Then again, I've read word-books about the subject.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at December 09, 2012 12:37 PM (X/+QT)

75

Don't forget the classic:

Watchmen

by Alan Moore (Author), Dave Gibbons (Illustrator)

almost a perfect 5 stars from 1,044 customers at
amazon:
http://tinyurl.com/bthkjfe

illustrations by Dave Gibbons, here:

http://tinyurl.com/blpwesq

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 12:38 PM (LpQbZ)

76 In what ways did Dave Sim go nuts?
The few descriptions I ever read were written by lefties, so it sounded like he mainly rejected modern feminism and possibly went uber-libertarian, maybe objectivist. Never really looked into it.

I just know most lefties would consider somebody becoming a Rush Limbaugh fan as "going nuts".

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2012 12:39 PM (R+6Q+)

77 He's my favorite author. Loved 'Wild Fire'. I just got a couple of his books for my kindle that I'd not heard of before. "The Book Case" and "Death Benefit" each for $1.99.....and "The Panther" for $11.00.

Did you read Night Fall? It was about TWA Flight 800 going down right after take off from NY. (Now that I read the refresher on Amazon, John Corey was in that one too!) The big takeaway from that sham investigation was that it was swept under the rug by Bubba Clinton, who didn't want his presiduncy (further) marred by muzz terrorism. Imagine that. A dem presidunce ignoring/emboldening terrorism, this after he presided over the '93 WTC bombing.

Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2012 12:40 PM (tQHzJ)

78 Watchmen. Oh boy. Friend and I went to see the movie. Had to explain to the uber comic book geek all the significance of Ozymandias including the poem. The cultural underpinnings have been lost.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:41 PM (Sz+px)

79 I have proof that people from the future have come to steal my comic book collection, but they'll never find it.

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2012 12:41 PM (frNqd)

80
Who wants to start listing obscure WWII books they have read. Ryan's 'The Longest Day' would naturally not count.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:52 AM (Sz+px)





We Die Alone by David Howarth. SOE guerrilla mission of free Norwegians to occupied Norway goes horribly bad from the start. The only survivor is wounded and on the run from the Nazis in the dead of winter. Great read, all the more so because it's a true story. Plus on a personal level, I once knew a former US Army/OSS guy who ran guns and explosives to Norway in fishing trawlers.

Wine and War by Don and Petie Kladstrup. About the French wine industry during the Nazi occupation. Interesting stuff.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 09, 2012 12:45 PM (Rhie+)

81

do you have any KISS comic books?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 09, 2012 12:45 PM (8POGd)

82 Watchmen is excellent. Both the original comic and the movie, which is a scene-by-scene reshoot of the comic's main storyline.

DC is mining it fora new series called Watchmen 2, but it seems like blasphemy to me, like when Marvel brought back Elektra.

Some stories are self contained and deserve to stay finished.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2012 12:47 PM (I2LwF)

83 54 RWC, if that is the Tekken movie from two years ago. Run away now. Do not watch it. Gamer friend and I went to see it in the theater. We both thought we got ripped off.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:25 PM (Sz+px)

I watched about 3 minutes of it. I knew it would be bad but thought I'd watch for shits and giggles.

Nope, can't do it.

Posted by: RWC at December 09, 2012 12:47 PM (sqp6o)

84 Watchmen never worked as a tpb due to the way that Moore and Gibbons played with the length of a issue and the waiting game between the releases

Posted by: The Dude at December 09, 2012 12:47 PM (tw6Ar)

85

My mom gave me this, and it's beautiful. I was lucky to get the original larger hardcover version.

This Is My Wish For You

Frequently one wishes to say to another, "I wish you the best of everything". This book delivers this message with power and sincerity.

Welleran Poltarnees has taken Snell's text and selected a painting or illustration for each wish, giving additional life to an already marvelous text.

We assert, without exaggeration, that this is the nearly perfect gift book.

This book has been so popular as a gift that we have created a deluxe edition. It is bound in cloth, has an embossed, full-color label on its front cover, and resides in a slipcase.


--This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

This link shows a mini that is available on Amazon, but if you can somehow find the larger hardcover, new, it's a great gift:

http://tinyurl.com/bykgael






Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 12:50 PM (LpQbZ)

86 By the way, I grew up a huge Spider-Man fan. But he's dead to me.

Ever since he teamed up with Barack Obama to save the first inauguration from the Chameleon.

Fuck him.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2012 12:51 PM (I2LwF)

87 Iron Man is a funny case. It started as an explicitly anti-war and anti-Nam book. But scratch the surface and you find a libertarian businessman hero.

It's like the opposite of all the idealistic fascists normally populating superhero comics.

Posted by: Truman North at December 09, 2012 12:53 PM (I2LwF)

88 If you were in the Bay Area back then, you would have also read Odd's Bodkins: http://danoneillcomics.com/
I still remember the concept of hell as a giant vat of oatmeal they had to eat their way out of.

I finished The Spider and the Starfish, which is about decentralized leadership. The authors don't seem to have realized that the concept has been used by anyone but Lefties though.

I've got a bunch of books on Everest, on hold at the library. And I have Freedom manifesto by Steve Forbes. I'm about halfway through Atlas Shrugged. I hope I can get through it because i really don't read much fiction.

Posted by: notsothoreau at December 09, 2012 12:54 PM (uPhCY)

89 Beach, did you know they reissued Dream Hunters with art by someone else? After Amano, I found it bleah.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 12:35 PM (Sz+px)



I just saw this, when I went to search for the amazon link. Yes, it's so bleh compared to Amano's. Sad.

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 12:54 PM (LpQbZ)

90 Did you read Night Fall? It was about TWA Flight 800
going down right after take off from NY. (Now that I read the refresher
on Amazon, John Corey was in that one too!) The big takeaway from that
sham investigation was that it was swept under the rug by Bubba Clinton,
who didn't want his presiduncy (further) marred by muzz terrorism.
Imagine that. A dem presidunce ignoring/emboldening terrorism, this
after he presided over the '93 WTC bombing.





Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2012 12:40 PM (tQHzJ)

Yep, read that. I've read them all except the three new ones I listed.
"The Lion" has John Corey in it too.

Posted by: Tami at December 09, 2012 12:55 PM (X6akg)

91 I'm not certain, but I think Lee picked up "Excelsior" from Jean Shepherd, who had a radio show in NY at the time. (Most know him as writer and narrator of "A Christmas Story").

It was in the mid 60's that Marvel decided every story must run more than 1 issue; that's when I gave up on comics.

Finally, there was one definite conservative comic book artist/author, Carl Barks, "The Duck Man", who did Donald Duck for Disney. Several of his stories are straight econ lessons for 10 year olds. Arguably the greatest of all comic book authors.

Posted by: George LeS at December 09, 2012 12:56 PM (C4s3i)

92 "Remember what William F. Buckley said about instututions?"

Not Buckley, John O'Sullivan:

"All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing."

Posted by: Knemon at December 09, 2012 12:59 PM (FYaI5)

93 #92: That is the quote, but I always associated it with Buckley for some reason. And I thought he used the term institutions. Maybe I read a Buckley paraphrase of the O'Sullivan quote or something.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at December 09, 2012 01:01 PM (RLZvP)

94 test

Posted by: Palerider at December 09, 2012 01:02 PM (5CusZ)

95 "In what ways did Dave Sim go nuts?"

Hoo boy, how much time do you have? By the end of Cerebus, the text___ ratio had gotten dangerously high, and a lot of that text had become complex exegesis on his own counter-feminist misogynist (I don't use that word lightly, but this was/is explicitly misog.) mythologizing, to the point where he seemed to be creating his own Christian-Muslim-fusionist, He-Man Women Hater's religion.

There were signs of this as early as halfway through the 300-issue run, but it was originally part of the plot (and, at least through "Guys," was pretty awesome). But by the end, it was almost unreadable. And that's just the product itself - he also became erratic and crankish in his professional persona.

A joke headline in some comix forum captured the spirit. Something like "Sim led away in handcuffs as more nurses' body parts unearthed in back yard."

Dude had serious talent, but went Bad Crazy at some point.

Posted by: Knemon at December 09, 2012 01:03 PM (FYaI5)

96 (that should read text___ ratio, dunno what happened there)

Posted by: Knemon at December 09, 2012 01:04 PM (FYaI5)

97 okay one more time: text to image ratio

Posted by: Knemon at December 09, 2012 01:04 PM (FYaI5)

98

This thread makes me so nostalgic.

While tooling through my little library, I came across this book, I forgot I had (no yelling!):

MARVEL: Five Fabulous Decades of the World's Greatest Comics

by Les Daniels; Introduced by Stan Lee

This over 4 pound book is about Marvel comics. 700 illustrations. Reprints of four classic stories. character profiles, behind the scenes anecdotes from the creators. Lots more.

Hardcover. It's absolutely gorgeous.

This is the one I have:

http://tinyurl.com/cu4w5gq



*sniff: the good ole days

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 01:04 PM (LpQbZ)

99 Cross-over addiction is what made me give up on comics as well. The only title I wanted was the Marvel Excalibur series so I didn't collect for very long. Nightcrawler and Shadowcat will probably always be my favorite characters though because of it.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 09, 2012 01:05 PM (y39Xz)

100 A new series I'm currently enjoying is "Saga" by Brian K Vaughn and Fiona Staples. It's the story of two lovers from long-warring extraterrestrial races fleeing authorities from both sides of a galactic war as they struggle
to care for their newborn daughter, who occasionally narrates the
series. It has a big Star Wars vibe to it, with an epic feel. If you like that sort of thing, this may be the sort of thing you like.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 01:05 PM (5J54Q)

101
Who wants to start listing obscure WWII books they have read. Ryan's 'The Longest Day' would naturally not count.
-----
And there was light: theAutobiography ofJacques Lusseyran, Blind Hero of the French Resistance.

Posted by: Ellen at December 09, 2012 01:06 PM (6fdZq)

102
*sniff: the good ole days





Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 01:04 PM (LpQbZ)
----------------------------I had that book at one time, too. Lost it (and half my comics collection) in the infamous Water Heater Explosion of 1990.Another great book of that type is "Kirby: King of Comics" by Mark Evanier. It's a history of Jack Kirby's career, with loads of illustrations.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 01:07 PM (5J54Q)

103 "Who wants to start listing obscure WWII books they have read."

WWII-era, anyway: "Himmler's Aryan Crusade." Three books in one: a history of Tibet, a Ripping Adventure Yarn, and a lot of info on just how crazy the Nazis were with their cosmic-ice-and-fire stuff. (Hint: very, very crazy.)

Posted by: Knemon at December 09, 2012 01:08 PM (FYaI5)

104 @ 91

Excelsior! comes from this poem by Longfellow.

The shades of night were falling fast,
As through an Alpine village passed
A youth, who bore, 'mid snow and ice,
A banner with the strange device,
Excelsior!

His brow was sad; his eye beneath,
Flashed like a falchion from its sheath,
And like a silver clarion rung
The accents of that unknown tongue,
Excelsior!

In happy homes he saw the light
Of household fires gleam warm and bright;
Above, the spectral glaciers shone,
And from his lips escaped a groan,
Excelsior!

"Try not the Pass!" the old man said:
"Dark lowers the tempest overhead,
The roaring torrent is deep and wide!
And loud that clarion voice replied,
Excelsior!

"Oh stay," the maiden said, "and rest
Thy weary head upon this breast!"
A tear stood in his bright blue eye,
But still he answered, with a sigh,
Excelsior!

"Beware the pine-tree's withered branch!
Beware the awful avalanche!"
This was the peasant's last Good-night,
A voice replied, far up the height,
Excelsior!

At break of day, as heavenward
The pious monks of Saint Bernard
Uttered the oft-repeated prayer,
A voice cried through the startled air,
Excelsior!

A traveller, by the faithful hound,
Half-buried in the snow was found,
Still grasping in his hand of ice
That banner with the strange device,
Excelsior!

There in the twilight cold and gray,
Lifeless, but beautiful, he lay,
And from the sky, serene and far,
A voice fell, like a falling star,
Excelsior!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 09, 2012 01:09 PM (G9qZk)

105 Any writers looking for story ideas? Some History channel thing about odd museum items was on in the background while I was web surfing recently and included a museum with Karen Silkwood's purse and the backstory. I was thinking it would be fun to write that story as the NYT (or a mythical big paper) or perhaps the individual reporter finding that the story was meh and killing her to sensationalize it vs the evil nuclear corporation supposedly killing her to silence her (after she had already testified to congress) like they did in the movie.

Posted by: Palerider at December 09, 2012 01:11 PM (5CusZ)

106 Thx for the Dave Sim info.

I still pay some attention to the comics industry. Mainly to get a summary of the big "events" each year. I don't bother reading them, but I'm curious to know what the deal is.

But I'm a good example of why the comics industry does what it does. I completely ignore it unless they kill off a character or do some crazy reboot. Then I pay a little attention just to see what the fuss is about.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 09, 2012 01:11 PM (R+6Q+)

107 Irritate a lefty and buy "Holy Terror"

Frank Miller is definitely not a lefty.

Posted by: Lauren at December 09, 2012 01:12 PM (wsGWu)

108 A new series I'm currently enjoying is "Saga" by Brian K Vaughn and Fiona Staples. It's the story of two lovers from long-warring extraterrestrial races fleeing authorities from both sides of a galactic war as they struggle
to care for their newborn daughter, who occasionally narrates the
series. It has a big Star Wars vibe to it, with an epic feel. If you like that sort of thing, this may be the sort of thing you like.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 01:05 PM (5J54Q)


Amazon lets you look inside the book, too. You can get a really good feel of the illustration and story.

Nice.

Thanks for the tip.

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 01:13 PM (LpQbZ)

109 102
*sniff: the good ole days





Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 01:04 PM (LpQbZ)
----------------------------I had that book at one time, too. Lost it (and half my comics collection) in the infamous Water Heater Explosion of 1990.Another great book of that type is "Kirby: King of Comics" by Mark Evanier. It's a history of Jack Kirby's career, with loads of illustrations.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 01:07 PM (5J54Q)


oh man, that's sad

Posted by: beach weekend at December 09, 2012 01:14 PM (LpQbZ)

110 That is one of the other tragedies we will see post Sandy. How many comic collections got wiped out.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 01:17 PM (Sz+px)

111 Reading Michael Chabon's Telegraph Avenue. Chabon's
an ass, but he can really write. The story's about midwifery,
blaxploitation movies, jazz and funk records, extended families and
food. Highly recommended, but maybe from the library. No point in
funding assholes.

Posted by: spongeworthy at December 09, 2012 11:49 AM (r5w1L)


Mrs Hate once dragged me to the downtown library to see Chabon speak. He sounded like a useless turd who needs to have his ass kicked a few gazillion times for starters. Which doesn't mean he's not a good writer.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 09, 2012 01:19 PM (DLLR4)

112 That is one of the other tragedies we will see post Sandy. How many comic collections got wiped out.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 01:17 PM (Sz+px)
=============Indeed.
The Water Heater Explosion happened while we were on vacation. We had to cut it short and go back to take care of the damage. It ended up warping the floor of the trailer almost end to end. We ended up moving. While I hated losing 1,500 comics to water damage, at least most of our other possessions were intact.


Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 01:25 PM (5J54Q)

113 Ah, so now the line breaks have decided not to work for me. This is a fickle website.

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at December 09, 2012 01:26 PM (5J54Q)

114 Pixy is a Harsh Mistress.

1,500 or three long boxes is still a lot of comics.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 01:29 PM (Sz+px)

115 I posted in the gun thread that I'd started Niven / Pournelle's "Lucifer's Hammer". Anyway there was a comment that the book was all racist and shit. Wut? Did the Comet-American Community stage a picket?

Posted by: boulder hobo at December 09, 2012 01:30 PM (QTHTd)

116 I've read the Unincorporated Man and it's interesting, but does begin to lag a bit at the end. I have yet to read the rest of the trilogy.

Posted by: NJRob at December 09, 2012 01:32 PM (FVp26)

117 "Maus" was good not just because it showed all that stuff that David Irving says didn't happen, but because it showed the aftereffects on the survivors.

Spiegelman is a complete douchebag but he hit a home run with that book.

Posted by: boulder hobo at December 09, 2012 01:34 PM (QTHTd)

118 Mark Millar (with an "a"), of "Kick Ass" and "Wanted" infamy, might not be a rightie but he is *definitely* not a leftie. He might even be more offensive than Frank Miller (with an "e").

Also, Alan Moore is kind of his own weird thing. A lot of people claim he's a leftie, and he might claim to be a leftie himself, but "Watchmen" is about the most epic anti-Left story out in comicdom.

Posted by: boulder hobo at December 09, 2012 01:37 PM (QTHTd)

119 Whoever mentioned Bill Willingham earlier deserves a second rec. His FABLES series for Vertigo is consistently excellent and took the "old fairy tale characters in the modern world" concept to new heights before Hollywood got hold of it and turned it to dreck. His stories have a conservative viewpoint without bashing you over the head with it, enough that it shocked his lefty readers when he came out as a conservative recently and wrote columns for Breitbart.

Posted by: Hudson21 at December 09, 2012 01:44 PM (uSuzr)

120 The only nonfiction book I'd read in one night because I couldn't put it down was Andrew Breitbart's: "Righteous Indignation."
That is, UNTIL I read Geert Wilders's "Marked for Death: Islam's War Against the West and Me." COULD NOT PUT IT DOWN. Get thee to a library, bookstore or Amazon as fast as you possibly can, and get this book!!

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at December 09, 2012 01:48 PM (F0o5k)

121 Comics turned me off with all the characters running around in tights, capes and masks. The only people I ever saw dressed like that were clowns.

For me, serious heroes dress for work and kicking ass not a walk down a fashion runway or Castro Street in SF.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger (aka Ol' 3 tooth) at December 09, 2012 01:49 PM (3E2th)

122 Books... I just finished reading Gilder's Wealth and Poverty and Stephen Moore's "Who's The Fairest" both were great.

I have Nassim Taleb's Anti-Fragile, but I haven't started it yet.

As far as comics, Frank Miller and Allan Moore are always tossed around. They are amazing writers. But what about what's going on right now?

Scott Snyder will probably make history with his Batman run. You can jump right into Death of the Family (issue 13).

Marvel Comics Red She-Hulk is awesome. Only three issues in (don't worry about the issue numbering). Rick Remender is doing a great job with Captain America and Uncanny Avengers.

Jason Aaron is amazing on Thor (I'm a huge Thor fan) and he is only two issues into his story arc.

Bendis is doing a great job on All New X-men (only 3 issues in).

I love Frank Miller and Allan Moore, but they aren't the only two people who wrote great comics. Great comics are going on right now!

Also, (to use the common language) Graphic Novels are just long "single issue" comic books. It has nothing to do with how good the book is or anything like that. Watchmen is a comic book, collected in trade format (when you bind multiple books). Sandman the series is a comic book. Sandman Dream Hunters is a GN because it's long and it wasn't serialized as issues.

It's just this weird thing of mine.

Posted by: Goldgeller at December 09, 2012 01:58 PM (I69yk)

123 I am not sure which moron or 'ette recommended "What The Dog Did" but I thank you as parts made me laugh out loud this week when I read it.

I am asking a question on this thread as you appear to be the more serious group of Morons. Last night, at a reputable restaurant, I ordered a shrimp skewer entree. Cut into the first shrimp, which was done on outside but grey in inside, was not wearing glasses like a fool, noted chewy bite but stupidly swallowed instead of grossing out dinner partners and spitting in napkin. I did not eat anymore, needless to say, and was not charged for the replacement entree that I also did not eat. Perhaps I am going to lose weight this Christmas in spite of my frantic daily baking to avoid thinking about Dear Leader winning election!

My question: am I going to die before the grand finale of the Mayan Calendar on the 21st? So far, no urping and chirping or signs of food poisoning. I am actually more terrified of parasites and, somehow, a tapeworm growing in my brain (I watch weird medical or crime shows or too much of House). The RN in me tells me one tiny bite of half-cooked shrimp will not kill me as I have not gotten sick yet. The Sheldon in me tells me that it will be a long, long time before I eat shrimp again and if I start acting weird it may be due to this and I should just sue now for stress.

Help? Has anyone accidentally eaten half-cooked shrimp and survived? Should I call poison control or the CDC? Have the restaurant owners deported?

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at December 09, 2012 02:04 PM (baL2B)

124 I think you'll be safe, Christy. I've had similar experiences before. It's mostly been with chicken that was still pink and slimey on the inside, but I have had ceviche at a local pub where the shrimp was still grey.

Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at December 09, 2012 02:35 PM (RLZvP)

125 I realised something was off about Gaiman when he did "Sandman".

He had a dream-version of Harun al-Rashid's caliphate. It was done as a paradise, a model for all Oriental despotisms. The caliphate also ruled over Christian priests, treated with contempt, and over rabbis, treated neutrally.

He also had a fantasy-version of some post-Roman kingdom effectively ruled by a theocratic church. This place was clearly rotten and dystopic.

To Gaiman, if it's Christian, it's bigoted and bad. But don't dare call Gaiman a bigot.

Posted by: boulder hobo at December 09, 2012 02:40 PM (QTHTd)

126 Met Stan "The Man" Lee twice in a year, both at New Orleans Comic Con. First time i got him to sign Marvel Masterworks Vol 1 (Spider Man), second time (which was last week!) not only did i get him to sign MM Vol 4 (Avengers) but i also got to ask him a question at a panel.
http://youtu.be/5P_Oi0W46yA
That's me at 25:25 Very cool, though some have told me "Stan is a crotchty old man in private." My response is, "He's 90 and has been dealing with geeks like us for 70 years, you'd be a bit grumpy, too!"

Posted by: hurricane567 at December 09, 2012 02:47 PM (INHmr)

127 #125

Keep in mind, Gaiman's take on the Caliphate was as told by a very different POV than the usual Sandman stories. It was a 'lens of perception' story.

Posted by: epobirs at December 09, 2012 03:07 PM (kcfmt)

128 People have been taken by Miller since 9/11 but conveniently forget hi earlier work. The Dark Night Returns was about as nasty to Reagan as could be. Also look at the Martha Washington stories that completely bought into the lefty stance on South America in the 80s, when half the college kids thought it was going to be the Vietnam for their generation.

Miller definitely falls into the liberal who got mugged category.

Posted by: epobirs at December 09, 2012 03:11 PM (kcfmt)

129 The Dark Night Returns was about as nasty to Reagan as could be

... from Reagan's right, as I remember.

Posted by: boulder hobo at December 09, 2012 03:21 PM (QTHTd)

130 WWII obscure book I read: "The Arms of Krupp" by William Manchester.

Also covers the rise of the Krupp Empire during the Kaiser's time.

I am old enough to have actually bought and read the first "Fantastic Four" comic book. Liked it very much through the 60's until I got busy with dates, dresses, and stuff like that.

Here's an obscure comic my sisters and I liked (and possibly why a degree in geology was what I was destined for):

Turok, Son of Stone.

It was all about Turok and his pal Andar, American Indians, who somehow fell into a lost world full of cavemen and dinosaurs.

Posted by: Miss Marple at December 09, 2012 03:39 PM (GoIUi)

131 I'm surprixed no one has mentioned Alex Ross's 'Marvels'.

Nice retelling of the Timely-Marvel stories from the 40's through the 60's as seen by a reporter. And the effect on normal people living in such a world.

Funny thing is, even though I don't go out of my way to read graphic novels, I have indeed read 'Maus', 'The Dark Knight Returns', and 'The Watchmen'.

So I guess I do read "The Classics".

heh...

Posted by: HH at December 09, 2012 03:43 PM (XXwdv)

132 Posted by: Miss Marple at December 09, 2012 03:39 PM (GoIUi)

*sighs*

Yeah, I remember those also. Seems to me it was re-done a number of years ago, IIRC.

Posted by: HH at December 09, 2012 03:50 PM (XXwdv)

133 Erfworld is a web comic so good, with a good story line, that I bought the books. It's on a world based on wargaming, fantasy, and interesting rules.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 09, 2012 04:26 PM (u82oZ)

134 A plug, if I may be so bold, for my own fantasy (web) comic Dragonet, about fighting to take one's life and destiny into their own hands. Thanks!

Posted by: frankg at December 09, 2012 04:34 PM (NlJsJ)

135 Someone recommended "They Tell Me I'm the Bad Guy" here on an earlier book thread. I read it in one sitting last night before bed and man, did I have odd dreams.

"Better to Beg Forgiveness" was alright, previously mentioned on prior threads. The title certainly applies to the last half to third of the book.

C.R.O.W. keeps getting mentioned, for those using google it's hard to find, so adding the author's name: Phillip Richards, should help. It's written by a current British soldier and follows a recruit from basic to veterancy in a space-faring military--at least according to what I could find, haven't started it yet.

Also, try yahoo search when you need to search specific character sequences. I switched to google a decade ago but yahoo was the only one that let me find the book because it was actually able to differentiate C.R.O.W. from crow.

Posted by: Laffin_fool at December 09, 2012 05:08 PM (lmRB1)

136 I'd recommend Neil Gaiman's The Sandman series, and of course, Fables by Willingham. That's a great, great series. He did a lot of work on Sandman, too, I think. There was a steampunk series back in the early aughts that I loved called "Ruse" by CrossGen comics with these great characters Simon Archard and Emma Bishop. I think Mark Wait was the author. I remember being so torn when CrossGen went bankrupt because their high falutin' Booosh-hatin' "we r soooo awsum" rants in the editorial pages at the back of the comic made for the event much schadenfreude... but I also loved the comic. Many of my original issues were damaged in a flood and I was heartbroken. My X-Files comics went too, but while there were a few really good story arcs in that series, I didn't care so much since they absolutely fucked that show up and Gillian Anderson turned out to be such a cancid runt.

For manga, if that applies to this topic, I love Fullmetal Alchemist. And Kaze Hikaru, a shoujo soaper about the events leading up to the Meiji Restoration in Japan. Eh, I'm a gal. It's allowed.

Posted by: Gem at December 09, 2012 05:13 PM (zw+pb)

137 If you were in the Bay Area back then, you would have also read Odd's Bodkins

Yes, I certainly did. I didn't mention it here because it seemed to be too much of a local SF thing and I didn't want to completely bore everyone outside of the Bay Area.

For whatever reason, I could overlook O'Neill's leftwing douchebaggery in Odd Bodkins back then, but now I can't. I tried reading some of the newer OB strips he has up on his site, and his "republicans r stoopid" schtick, which he never tires of repeating again and again, is just gratingly annoying, like somebody running their fingernails across a blackboard. So I doubt that I will ever look at any new stuff by O'Neill ever again.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 09, 2012 05:37 PM (/yaKd)

138 All Star Superman is a definite must read. Superman done lovingly right.
The New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke is fun early 60's styliings of the Silver Age DC heroes. The main charcter, Hal Jordan, a flyboy test pilot along the lines of The Right Stuff is intial portrayed as pacifist during the Korean War. Thise caused many to say object, but in the end it is pretty dam good book that has gorgeous artwork.

Posted by: RGallegos at December 09, 2012 07:44 PM (VP6Y0)

139 Who wants to start listing obscure WWII books they have read. Ryan's 'The Longest Day' would naturally not count.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 09, 2012 11:52 AM (Sz+px)



"Lonesome Road" by George Harsh - he was a rich, bored college student in Atlanta during the 1920s, who turned to armed robbery and ultimately murder for amusement. He got out of jail thanks to family connections just as WWII was kicking off, left for Canada to "find the most dangerous job available," and ended up as a commissioned officer manning a tail turret (yes, I know, but that's what he said!) in RCAF Bomber Command. Shot down over Colonge, he ended up as one of the main personnel involved in the "Great Escape" from Stalag Luft III, living through it only because he was transferred to another camp right before it was executed. A very sad book, he seems to use it to completely come clean about all his crimes, and to spell out what life was like for a notorious jailbird afterwards, but there are significant holes in his story when you dig a bit. Still, an offbeat and little-read work on that incident.

"Eastern Inferno: The Journals of a German Panzerjager on the Eastern Front, 1941-43," by Hans Roth. I think this may have been a recommendation some months back here, but it was really a doozy - the "secret" diary of a German scout-infantryman on the Eastern Front, during the first couple of years of the campaign. Not a whale of a lot about higher command, strategies or politics, but a marvelous look at the life of a line soldier. He was KIA sometime after 1943, and his last writings disappeared with him; this is the first five volumes of his diary.

Posted by: John the Baptist at December 09, 2012 08:13 PM (7CNP1)

140
I read a great book by a guy who was in the Wehrmacht. It was really
good but I can't think of the name and I can't find the book in my
stacks. I guess this isn't much help.

5 Fronts, 4 wars? Don't remember the author.

Posted by: chad98036 at December 09, 2012 09:36 PM (gYowz)

141 The Jon Ostrander/Tom Mandrake Spectre series is probably the best comic series I've read. From the mid-90's.

Posted by: Devil-Slayer at December 09, 2012 10:47 PM (PrPYD)

142
To Gem (post 136)
Mark Waid did write "Ruse."
To everybody:
Speaking ofCrossGen and writers on the right, Chuck Dixon did two great series for the company: "Way of the Rat" (chop socky and talking monkey) and "El Cazador" (pirate tale, beautifully illustrated, casualty of CG bankruptcy).
I concur with the recommendations of "Queen Country," Barks'duck stories (don't forget Don Rosa!), "The New Frontier," "Fables" amd "Astro City." (Yes, I am a comics proselytizer!)
Lots of other good books out there, even if the writers are lefty. I'm strongly rigid right (with a few exceptions), but my policy regarding liberal comics creators is this: I'd rather they be writing fiction instead of policy.
Now we've got policy that in a sane world would be considered fiction. What happened?

Posted by: DJSchiff at December 10, 2012 03:45 AM (IECXz)

143
Devil-Slayer:
Oh yes regarding Ostrander/Mandrake "Spectre." Loved that book. Jim Corrigan never should have been forced back.
(By the way, did you pick your posting handle from the Marvel Comics character of the same name?)

Posted by: DJSchiff at December 10, 2012 03:48 AM (IECXz)

144 I still remember the concept of hell as a giant vat of oatmeal they had to eat their way out of.

It was actually tapioca, but that doesn't make it less funny.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 10, 2012 03:40 PM (9GaPd)






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