Jonathan Chait: Why Yes, Liberals Do Competely Control The Media, And They Use It, Very Successfully, To Advance Their Political Agenda

I wrote about this a while ago, before the election, and somehow I wound up on an old post discussing it again. It's worth noting again:

When Joe Biden endorsed gay marriage in May, he cited Will & Grace as the single-most important driving force in transforming public opinion on the subject. In so doing he actually confirmed the long-standing fear of conservatives—that a coterie of Hollywood elites had undertaken an invidious and utterly successfully propaganda campaign, and had transmuted the cultural majority into a minority. Set aside the substance of the matter and consider the process of it—that is, think of it from the conservative point of view, if you don’t happen to be one. Imagine that large chunks of your entertainment mocked your values and even transformed once-uncontroversial beliefs of yours into a kind of bigotry that might be greeted with revulsion.

You’d probably be angry, too.

He makes a good case for the fact that Hollywood (= the news and entertainment media) has a monopoly on popular culture messaging — what the PoMos would call “hegemonic discourse.” This is dog-bites-man stuff to conservatives, of course, but even at this late date, it will come as a controversial claim to many liberals. Chait makes a point that usually falls to right-wingers to make: that Hollywood liberals are pleased to take credit for their power to change hearts and minds and therefore the culture when it suits them, but plead otherwise when it doesn’t.

The truth is, they really do have this power, and, as Chait avers, have triumphed completely. It is overstating matters to say that politics are a sideshow conservatives have to console themselves in the face of overwhelming defeat in the culture. But it’s not overstating matters by much. Chait tells of some fascinating research from Brazil and India speaking of television’s ability to radically alter social practices, simply by undermining traditional culture with a countercultural message.

More Chait:

For the most part, your television is not consciously attempting to alter your political beliefs. It is mainly transmitting an ethos in which greed is not only bad but the main wellspring of evil, authority figures of all kinds are often untrustworthy, sexual freedom is absolute, and social equality of all kinds is paramount. Within the moral universe of this culture, the merits of these values are self-evident. But to the large bloc of America that does not share this ethos, it looks like a smug, self-perpetuating collusion against them.

… This capacity to mold the moral premises of large segments of the public, and especially the youngest and most impressionable elements, may or may not be unfair. What it is undoubtedly is a source of cultural (and hence political) power. Liberals like to believe that our strength derives solely from the natural concordance of the people, that we represent what most Americans believe, or would believe if not for the distorting rightward pull of Fox News and the Koch brothers and the rest. Conservatives surely do benefit from these outposts of power, and most would rather indulge their own populist fantasies than admit it. But they do have a point about one thing: We liberals owe not a small measure of our success to the propaganda campaign of a tiny, disproportionately influential cultural elite.

Drehrer goes on to discuss this further -- the left's complete domination of the imaginative arts -- and is worth reading (particularly for the quotes).

He also quotes another writer, a Christian discussing what might be called the Imagination Gap.

Cultures cultivate. A culture is more like an ecosystem than like a supermarket. And human persons, as encultured creatures, are generally less like independent rationally choosing shoppers than like organisms whose environment predisposes a certain set of attitudes and actions.

Cultures cultivate. Not that our activities are absolutely determined by cultural influences. We are rational beings, not just instinctual beings. We can make choices that go against the conventions sustained around us. We can lean into the prevailing winds, but only if we know how to stand somewhere solid. Only if we are not being carried by the wind. We need to be able to imagine alternative ways of perceiving reality.

Cultures cultivate, so if we want to offset the influence of cultural systems that distort or misrepresent reality, we need more than good arguments that analyze the distortions. We need cultural alternatives that provide opportunities for participating in a different way of telling the story of human experience.

For example, counteracting the materialistic reductionism of our time requires practices that convey to our imaginations the coherent unity of matter and spirit. Challenging the assumptions that human beings are best understood and best treated by social structures as autonomous choosers whose choices provide meaning in an otherwise meaningless universe requires settings in which submission and obedience to some order of things that precedes our willing is known as a delight and a blessing.

Distorted institutions and practices can’t be confronted only by arguments. They require well-ordered practices and institutions. Resisting cultural confusion is more than a matter of thinking outside the box. We need to be able to intuit outside the box. And to encourage well-ordered intuitions to those under our care, especially our children — because cultures cultivate.

I’m surprised by how often this simple fact is ignored by people who talk about cultural engagement. There are people who are honestly concerned about one trend or another in our social life, who regard those problems as the effect of bad arguments or bad intentions, and not, as they often are, as the product of some malformation or other in the shape of lived life. So they end up using malformed tools to repair the damage caused by the same malformed tools, thinking that better ideas, or a more clearly articulated list or priorities, or worst of all, the right political leadership, will fix things. To switch metaphors, they aren’t attending to the ecosystemic causes of those problems. They are applying more fertilizer or more water to plants that are suffering from a fatal amount of shade.

I've seen the same misunderstanding of my point here a few times, so let me clarify: No, I'm not telling anyone they need to "watch more TV" or "watch more movies," for crying out loud. We live in a Spectator Culture, not an Active Culture, and that's a bad thing. I certainly would not urge that anyone further embrace a bad habit.

I have myself too long lived the life of the Spectator. It's deadening to the body, mind, and spirit. Not just as a political matter, but as a human one or health one or psychological one, I'd advise anyone (particularly myself) to spend less time watching and more time doing.

Doesn't matter what objects follow those gerunds. Doing > watching, critiquing in almost all fields (except, I guess, murder, or other vices).

My discussion along these lines is not really directed at the average conscientious conservative as far as taking action. It's really directed at people who fund and organize conservative causes. It's a suggestion that perhaps we have enough think-tanks and alternative media of the same basic types and perhaps we need to start thinking about other important forms of expression we've been overlooking.

The only recommendation I'd make to the average conscientious conservative, who is not in a position to fund, organize, or staff a media organization, is to please lay off me when I'm attempting to broaden the cultural front. There are some people who are pretty sure that the only things that should concern a conservative mind are:

1. The details of particular short-term political strategy and messaging, and how to sharpen such messages;

2. The details of grassroots organization and politicking; and

3. Political philosophy.

With all due respect I don't even think most people believe those are the only things (apart from the Constitution and Bible) a conservative mind should be engaged in. I just think some people don't have much interest outside of such things, and get snippy when the conversation turns to things they're not interested in.

In any event, I'm kind of sick of the Talk About My Thing Or I'm Going To Throw A Snit-Fit attitude. Go somewhere else, then. There are plenty of blogs and talk radio shows that talk about these three things exclusively. Stop trying to shape the world so it fits you. The world outside of you is permitted to take different shapes.

I keep making this observation, but I think it's worth making several dozen more times: Although conservatives pride themselves on "Not worshipping the government" and "having interests and lives outside of politics" -- as contrasted with liberals -- in fact, if you consume conservative media, you will find our media completely rubbishes that claim, because the expressly conservative media is almost entirely about government and politics.

Even when the conservative media notes the occasional fiction book, the review is often largely about what the book says about politics or morality. That is, even in a review of fiction we seem over-concerned with the politically didactic usefulness of art.

No insult to Matthew Condinetti, and I should note it's not exclusively about those things -- I cite this just as a for-instance. I see this a lot. K-Lo will put in a positive review for an Adam Sandler-produced movie like Deuce Bigelow (yeah, I think I remembered she liked it), but will spend the bulk of her praise talking about how the movie illustrates Deuce's central decency and how that is a Good Message and... yawn.

Is it a funny movie? Does it achieve its goals? Does it entertain? Does it provoke? Those are the proper grounds for review of a film or book. Sure, given a conservative audience, you'd also want to note the objectionable material or positive messages in a sentence or two, to alert conservative-minded people about them. But such things are not properly the main grounds for appreciation of a fiction.

We are using the language of religious parable and political messaging to analyze things which are not religious parables and political messages. This makes as much sense as using one's as to what makes for excellence in a car for evaluating a motorcycle. When reviewing a motorcycle, you would not note that it lacks any trunk space, and cannot seat more than two persons (and those two persons will not sit very comfortably). Such things are understood and do not need be said, as a motorcycle is clearly not a car, does not have the features of a car, and does not have the same purposes or expectations of a car. It does not then make sense to evaluate a motorcycle by such criteria.

I suppose this is partly a personal taste, but the didactic is rarely interesting.

I can't fault conservatives for this because this mode of thinking is even more rampant among the Gramsciite left. Works of art are routinely praised -- or condemned -- not according to proper criteria of artistic worthiness but based upon whether the art in question advances a Davey and Goliath-level bit of sledgehammer political/politico-moral messaging. I have read a hundred reviews in which a popular film reviewer will grudgingly admit that a film is not all that good, but then end with a rousingly positive final paragraph urging you to see it because "such films deserve support."

What films? Bad films? Mediocre films? If you're recommending a film just for the sentiment "gay families are just like regular families," why not just be honest about things and write a review of that seven-word sentiment? And write, "I like this sentiment very much," and leave the movie out of it entirely?

Because that is what you're doing, of course; you're ignoring the actual film, and refusing to bring the normal toolbox of critical analysis to it, and simply reviewing the barely-even-a-sentence sentiment that "gay families are just like regular families." Just review that sentence, then. Don't pretend you're reviewing a movie. The movie is just a pretext for discussing the sentiment you approve of.

I always find this a very strange position, especially coming from liberals. Liberals are fond of saying that Art is Everything and "art for art's sake" and all of that. That is, the quality of the art is what's important, completely irrespective of the practical value of it or its usefulness in advancing some kind of social good. They say that, but they behave precisely contrary to that idea, evaluating any work of art with even the slightest political implication according to whether they like that implication or not.

But whether on the right or left, such "critiques" miss the forest for the trees. A film is usually about something a little bit more complicated and a little more human than a seven-word bumper-sticker sentiment. A good film always is, a good novel always is. This sort of reductivist approach just isn't interesting or worthy. At least not to me.

Don't we do some things just for fun? Or read some things simply because they're interesting, without any direct or indirect implication on our politics?

Is there something wrong with admitting that? Or do we have to pretend we're living every moment for Washington, DC?

So really I'm not asking anyone to watch Two and Half Men. Instead I'm arguing that conservative conversation and conservative imagination does not need to be -- and should not be -- all about conservative politics.

The conversation can and should be broader than that. It does not need to be so relentlessly focused on near-term political goals and long-term victory in the culture wars.

I think the truth will out, and the truth will out wherever it is actually pursued. Even if -- especially if, maybe -- it's pursued into places you didn't think it would be hiding. I suppose I'm suggesting a sort of Invisible Hand in imagination or intellectual inquiry -- a free market in ideas should wind up producing the best ideas, and if it doesn't, the market is rigged to guarantee bad results.

I think the market is so currently rigged -- first, by a venal monopoly which uses its market position in one market (the media, culture, the academy) to leverage a dominant position in another (the political realm). (Incidentally, that's one of the biggest no-no's in anti-trust law-- using a monopoly or near-monopoly in one area (say, a computer operating system) to leverage an advantage in another (say, an internet browser).)

But secondly -- and more importantly for our immediate purposes, because we can affect this more readily than the first point -- the market is deformed by a lack of competitors entering it, and that's because conservatives, for a variety of reasons, self-select away from it.

I think it's time to change that. In fact, I think the time to change that was some time around 1957, but it's definitely time to change that now.

Posted by: Ace at 12:28 PM



Comments

1

Soothie, arms akimbo.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 12:32 PM (qj0su)

2 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:33 PM (5DR1j)

3 Gee, no shit?

I was a reporter/editor for two decades. Can't stand those fuck heads.

Posted by: Texas Ranger at December 07, 2012 12:33 PM (IvvrO)

4 Totally OT, but....

Not Scott? Not Gowdy?


http://bit.ly/YJIQsw

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:33 PM (piMMO)

5 Yes, FINALLY. Today has been rather stale

Posted by: Alex, Who LOVES THIS WEBSITE, and MAKING LOTS OF SOCKS at December 07, 2012 12:34 PM (uFY4s)

6 LiFB

and now to read the post.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 07, 2012 12:34 PM (QupBk)

7 Is this meant to psych yourself into completing your novel?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at December 07, 2012 12:34 PM (QF8uk)

8 But then they tell us Palin was an idiot for doing "reality shows".

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 12:34 PM (AWmfW)

9 be back in an hour.



I kid, I kid.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 07, 2012 12:35 PM (QupBk)

10 This Post is Looong kind of like Aces's

Posted by: Alex, Who LOVES THIS WEBSITE, and MAKING LOTS OF SOCKS at December 07, 2012 12:35 PM (uFY4s)

11

It's more than just contolling the media. It's also about campaigning.

The only time Republicans campaign is during election season. Democrats ard in campaign/attack/advance mode all the time.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 12:35 PM (4028I)

12 But then they tell us Palin was an idiot for doing "reality shows".

Yes, but the Palin reality shows were filled with liberal pastimes like being outdoors, and fishing, and hunting.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at December 07, 2012 12:36 PM (QF8uk)

13 "But secondly -- and more importantly for our immediate purposes,
because we can affect this more readily than the first point -- the
market is deformed by a lack of competitors entering it, and that's
because conservatives, for a variety of reasons, self-select away from
it.


I think it's time to change that. In fact, I think the time to
change that was some time around 1957, but it's definitely time to
change that now."
---
This goes for education, too. We need more conservatives going into grade school and high school education for exactly the same reasons.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 07, 2012 12:36 PM (wDG5U)

14 We must fight this.
We must fight this now.

If we don't organize we will be utterly destroyed.

We need a thread brainstorming ways to accomplish this, such as every conservative buying Comcast stock.

Or we boycott.

Posted by: GardenGnome at December 07, 2012 12:36 PM (74T7W)

15 Actually, that reminds me. I don’t have television, so I only saw bits of the Palin Alaska show, but it seemed a lot more like Animal Kingdom than The Shore. Was that impression wrong?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at December 07, 2012 12:37 PM (QF8uk)

16 right on education.

>>>7 Is this meant to psych yourself into completing your novel?

hah. No, not really. It's independent of that.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:37 PM (LCRYB)

17 It is nigh impossible, as a writer or originator of creative material, to advance ones views and philosophy through the normal channels and expect them to be filmed/broadcast unfiltered - if at all.

I have tried to hone my skills as best as I can in writing material that has a conservative message without hitting the audience over the head. If I craft it correctly, the powers that be never recognize that they are being ridiculed/criticized.

Stay tuned...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 07, 2012 12:38 PM (XkWWK)

18 Ace, lighten up on the meth. 5,000 word posts are over the morons heads.

Mine anyway. Cliff's notes? We're fucked. We know that, it doesn't matter only TWO weeks left of the world.


Enjoy it.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at December 07, 2012 12:38 PM (wR+pz)

19 Hoping for a hostile NBC/Zimmerman merger in the future. With Zimm controlling 51%. But that won't happen.

Posted by: Whatev at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (2t6Gz)

20

Why isn't Boehner parading 'middle class families' around and letting them explain how Obama's policies are hurting them?

That's what Obama does because it works.



Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (HhVFr)

21 >>>But then they tell us Palin was an idiot for doing "reality shows".

One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in politics.


Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (LCRYB)

22 Ace I am not sure what you mean by "conservative media" here. There is so little conservative media, it boils down to NRO, Townhall, and sometimes The Weekly Standard. I am not sure that I would consider AOS "conservative Media". It is a right wing blog that explores a variety of subjects.


The magazines/web sites like NRO concentrate on politics because that is what they were founded for. You and the other co-bloggers do a lot of politics and also a lot of other things besides politics.


I like that. ALL politics ALL the time will kill you of a heart attack in short order. Not to mention turn you into 'I'm Mad As Hell".

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (YdQQY)

23 Pearl Harbor thread? Work on the culture so to speak?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (wR+pz)

24 Just a reinforcement of the notion that we must start engaging with a broader audience.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (piMMO)

25
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of
your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and
perfect, will of God." - Romans 12:2

This is why conservatives so often fail at the culture wars. We're not as concerned with wordly things, nor should we be.

Trying to become a different kind of Hollywood is the height of folly. Let the the left ride their moral depravity to whatever depths it will take them. I simply refuse to participate. Conservatives need to be setting up networks of like-minded people to help navigate the coming hard times, not trying to emulate those who got us here in the first place.

Posted by: Foul Harold at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (m/WmK)

26 And I am sure that those 22 posts in front of me did not read the post.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (YdQQY)

27 Actually, that reminds me. I don’t have television, so I only saw bits
of the Palin Alaska show, but it seemed a lot more like Animal Kingdom
than The Shore. Was that impression wrong?


The where Kate and her 8 kids show up was funny. Funny to watch a vapid whore like her be exposed for what she is.

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (GQ8sn)

28 One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my
head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer
can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no
longer in politics.







Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (LCRYB)

So culture is not politics?

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (AWmfW)

29 Dad and Mom laugh at you drones! Gonna spend $4+ million of YOURS on a 20 day vacay this month! Happy Holidays ...enjoy your dog food! LOL!

Posted by: Malia in DC at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (ypzqs)

30 As an addendum, I'd say that when we find people who are expressly conservative in their art (or at least their views, and not shy about it), we need to promote them as long as they're good.

One of the problems I, as a Christian, have with Christian music or Christian Fiction is that so much of it is pure drek. I've fought through Christian Novels - that made "moderate hit" status (tens of thousands, maybe the very low hundreds of thousands of copies sold) - that read like they were written by a perhaps more-than-averagely-bright ninth grader. I've listened to Christian music that sounds like something I'd hear at a High School talent show- not as the winning act- on the radio.

Why? Because a certain subset of Christians are so sure that it needs to be supported- regardless of quality- and so they support it. Making it financially viable. That sets the barrier to entry very, very low, and often means that those artists never have to get better.

So I don't want us to support anyone who says, "Hey, I'm a conservative, and I have a band!" I want them to be *good* first. But when we find them, we should highlight them. We should talk about them.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (5DR1j)

31 If someone's conservative views on gay marriage can be subverted by a TV show like Will and Grace then these views were reflexively held anyway and not strongly held convictions.

Posted by: scofflawx at December 07, 2012 12:40 PM (N1Rjx)

32 I like Will and Grace. They are a cute couple. I also like pie and trains.

Posted by: Joe Biden at December 07, 2012 12:41 PM (bAGA/)

33 Epic post. Thus Spake Acerathustra

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 07, 2012 12:41 PM (sbV1u)

34 Great. The asshole confesses. Now what.

Posted by: Mark formerly in Spokane,now in Sandy Ut at December 07, 2012 12:41 PM (SvwCT)

35 Not to mention turn you into 'I'm Mad As Hell".

Word.

Posted by: I'm mildly peeved and I guess I'll put up with it. at December 07, 2012 12:41 PM (QupBk)

36

why would you want only your head to be frozen?

I want my whole body or nothing at all.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 12:41 PM (Fely/)

37 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:33 PM (piMMO)


LOL, NDH ace does a post about not doing politics all the time and you go off topic with politics very early.

Shame on you

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 12:42 PM (YdQQY)

38 Fuck the media, what we need to take control of are the schools. Pre K all the way up to universities. That way, we don't need to worry about what's on tv or playing at the cinema.

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (GQ8sn)

39 I've never seen Will and Grace. Don't even think I've seen a 10 second preview. Couldn't tell you who Will or Grace is or what they do. So I haven't had the same benefit Biden has on the issue. Dish has just realeased a new feature where you can see the top shows people are watching at the moment, and I look at that list and think - who the fuck is watching that shit.

Posted by: Whatev at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (2t6Gz)

40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ClGCGyKV_Co

here's Rachel Maddow getting incredulous that Nick Gillespie says she always takes the Democrat side.

watch her and Maher sputter when Gillespie asks for one example of them siding with a Republican over a Democrat.

Posted by: Bob Costas Elevator Shoes at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (KHo8t)

41 >>>So culture is not politics?

she's living in your head rent-free, man.

I think it's funny that that's offered up as some kind of knock on her skeptics and opponents. Because I rarely think of her. And yet, no matter what the subject at hand, there are some people who think it's time to Stick Up For Sarah, yet again.

Rent-free, baby.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (LCRYB)

42 then these views were reflexively held anyway and not strongly held convictions

True of almost all beliefs and mores. To mutilate Dr Johnson, most ideas are not spread by reason but by contagion.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (QupBk)

43 "one particular woman who is no longer in politics. "
Bewbs?

Posted by: Bosk at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (n2K+4)

44 23 Pearl Harbor thread? Work on the culture so to speak?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (wR+pz)


So I'm assuming Billy Bob did NOT read the actual post.

(Or is using level 3+ irony)

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (XkotV)

45 If someone's conservative views on gay marriage can be subverted by a TV show like Will and Grace then these views were reflexively held anyway and not strongly held convictions.

****

It happens bit by bit, it may not wear away your own personal convictions, but lead to the belief that whatever is being presented is far more prevalent than it actually is. It can lead one to feel they are in a weaker position to fight the onslaught.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (piMMO)

46 The next "Brazil" will have to be animated, that is divorced from the corrupted Hollywood financing model, without actors who fear subtle blacklisting, implemented by anonymous artists working in Nashville or Utah, advertised virally via 10,000 word blog reviews, and distributed on-line.

Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 12:44 PM (IS2o0)

47 No seat for Tim Scott. Instead a SC party hack.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows þr0n is your constitutionally guaranteed entitlement at December 07, 2012 12:44 PM (Lxw+T)

48 Thanks, Ace. Great post. Conservative values need to be introduced into entertainment media somehow in order to influence the culture from which our political leaders are elected......If the people are all about bread and circuses, then we need to be there, too. Or something like that.....

Posted by: OCD Con at December 07, 2012 12:44 PM (+Gft4)

49
I'm not into gladiator pixs.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 07, 2012 12:44 PM (e/Cti)

50 This kind of garbage is why I download every movie I watch. I neither pay to see it in the theaters or watch it on netflix. I torrent all of my music, software, and entertainment at all times. Not one thin dime goes to any entity that supports liberals. None. Its not much, nut its all I myself can do. I stopped drinking pepsi because their president is a liberal piece of shit.

Posted by: The Drizzle at December 07, 2012 12:44 PM (ysCLj)

51 >>>why would you want only your head to be frozen?

i would like my body frozen too but the Freezer People actually saw off your head and only freeze that, to reduce cost and space.

Their theory is that any technology advanced enough to bring your brain back to life will be able to make you a Frankenbody easily enough.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (LCRYB)

52 Remember when Ellen went off the air following her kissing Laura Dern?

It wasn't that long ago.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (piMMO)

53
Ace, lighten up on the meth. 5,000 word posts are over the morons heads.


Naa. Forget him. I liked it.

Trying to become a different kind of Hollywood is the height of folly.
Let the the left ride their moral depravity to whatever depths it will
take them.


That's fine and dandy, if you're willing to self-select into a cultural ghetto.

Even quoting your source: we're still supposed to be in the world. Paul even said "I have been all things to all people so that I might win some. To the Jews I became like a Jew to win the Jews. To the Greeks I became like a Greek to win the Greeks."

Our culture should be different- but it should exist.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (5DR1j)

54 Actually, that reminds me. I don’t have television, so I only saw bits
of the Palin Alaska show, but it seemed a lot more like Animal Kingdom
than The Shore. Was that impression wrong?


The only impression I got was that she doesn't know how to shoot a rifle.

And that she's just as vapid as her critics suggest.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (SY2Kh)

55 In any event, I'm kind of sick of the Talk About My Thing Or I'm Going To Throw A Snit-Fit attitude. Go somewhere else, then. There are plenty of blogs and talk radio shows that talk about these three things exclusively. Stop trying to shape the world so it fits you. The world outside of you is permitted to take different shapes.

I couldn't find this yesterday when the Mad As Hell threads were going, but a fellow moron found this gem from Empire of Jeff from a few years ago relating to that attitude;


213 If I am wrong, then I am better off elsewhere. NO! You must not! With your every keystroke, it is as if a mighty hammer is tolling the Bell of Liberty itself, urging a torpid citizenry to action! Lead us! Ignoble are the aims of those who would doubt your patriotic fervor, simply because you type in the manner of a drunkard with massive head trauma! Cast aside these fairweather patriots, for weak though the flesh may be, NOBLE and TRUE is the spirit within! Incidentally, and I don't ask for any particular reason, how do you feel about Doctor Ron Paul?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 11, 2011 08:53 PM (lGFXF)

Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (wwsoB)

56 I went to grad school and learned all about critical theory and "hegemonic discourse." Oddly, it prepared me to leave liberalism behind. If the patriarchy is guilty of constructing reality, then so too can liberalism be guilty of creating its own reality too, it seemed to me. How many White Christian Male villains did Law Order use, for example? It became silly!

We need to use their own tools against them. It won't happen in academia--there would be hell to pay if a student wrote such a paper--but it can happen in new media and the interwebs.

I used to think cons should support con movies, like Mao's Last Dancer. Nobody went to see it, even cons. My thought now is to blackball the whole industry. When even Lincoln is filled with f-bombs, somebody is doing something intentional to our culture. And it ain't good.

Posted by: PJ at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (ZWaLo)

57 Sometimes Rachel sides with the DSA or Greens over the Dims to be fair.

Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (IS2o0)

58
I've never seen Will and Grace. Don't even think I've seen a 10 second
preview. Couldn't tell you who Will or Grace is or what they do. So I
haven't had the same benefit Biden has on the issue. Dish has just
realeased a new feature where you can see the top shows people are
watching at the moment, and I look at that list and think - who the fuck
is watching that shit.

Posted by: Whatev at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (2t6Gz)


By accident I caught maybe a minute of it once. I thought it was really dumb and that homos should protest it because it made them look like shallow flighty idiots.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (UyQvx)

59 Ace --

Forgive me for being a pessimist, but when you (or Breitbart) make these sorts of exhortations -- i.e., 'get out there and win the cultural war by engaging and creating' -- my instinctive response is: what fucking chance does someone who approaches things from a conservative perspective have? They'll get crushed like a bug in Hollywood. You do realize there is an active conspiracy, which affects pretty much everyone except the biggest, unreachably bankable megastars (Eastwood), to suppress anyone whose politics are not down-the-line liberal. How is it even possible to alter the course of Hollywood when their stranglehold is unbreakable, even when profits are on the line?

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (TuW+p)

Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM (wwsoB)

61 No seat for Tim Scott. Instead a SC party hack.


****

I linked the story, but then Gabe tweeted me with some perspective.

Who is their source? Has the appointment been confirmed?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM (piMMO)

62 38/ EC, when you say "What WE need to do is take control of the schools." Does that mean you are going to get a job teaching or are you just an idea man?

Posted by: scofflawx at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM (N1Rjx)

63 kdabear! BARREL!!!

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM (GQ8sn)

64 Most watched show right now on Dish - Young and Restless. WTF.

Posted by: Whatev at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM (2t6Gz)

65 Maybe off topic, but I think it fits here;

http://tinyurl.com/cqk82be

EW.com's preview of Bioshock Infinite. Forced baptisms, interracial violence and crazy patriots worshiping the founding fathers as Gods.

For you non-video game nerds, this is actually a highly anticipated game...like the Avengers was for moviegoers.

Posted by: El Kabong, RINOINO at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM (sGU4F)

66
the market is so currently rigged -- first, by a venal monopoly which uses its market position in one market (the media, culture, the academy) to leverage a dominant position in another (the political realm).





Then perhaps it's not the wisest thing strategically for Team Republican to vote to expand media copyrights, increase draconian file sharing penalties, protect favored cultural grants and open the sluice gates for more college aid.

Just saying...


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM (kdS6q)

67 No, Ace their political objective is foremost, then they come up with a method to sell it. They believe in the religion of Gaia, so they come up with a secular apocalypse, like TDAT. How about that screeching harridan, Ellen Barkin, from the New Normal, or all of the 'wretched hive of scum and villainy, that comes from Ryan Murphy.

Posted by: phillip fry at December 07, 2012 12:47 PM (ctjsq)

68 I would like my head unfrozen and restored to life

You blog with a frozen head?



Impressive

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at December 07, 2012 12:47 PM (6BgmB)

69
I like the non-political threads. Whoever doesn't can eat a dick.

Posted by: Ben at December 07, 2012 12:47 PM (C2Y4l)

70 "...an ethos in which greed is not only bad but the main wellspring of evil,
authority figures of all kinds are often untrustworthy, sexual freedom
is absolute, and social equality of all kinds is paramount."

It's a good thing we have poverty-stricken TV executives and morally pure actors to keep us abreast of these matters.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at December 07, 2012 12:47 PM (rzTDZ)

71 "A film is usually about something a little bit more complicated and a little more human than a seven-word bumper-sticker sentiment. "

Clearly, you have no idea of the sheer amount of intellectual brute force it takes to reduce a film down to a seven-word bumpersticker sentiment.

To wit:
The film "Anna Karennina" down to a seven word sentiment?

-

I enjoy seeing Keira Knightley's tit-tays.
_

Leave the heavy lifting to us professionals, champ.

_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 07, 2012 12:47 PM (RuUvx)

72 63
kdabear! BARREL!!!


Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 12:46 PM

kbdabear ... your agonizer please

Posted by: Bearded Ace at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (wwsoB)

73 I am not sure that I would consider AOS "conservative Media".

Anarchist. As in "Get off my lawn. Now!"

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (zji3t)

74 Oh damn, Ace posted another movie review I see. I'll have to read it after I finish War & Peace.

Posted by: JDTAY at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (a0nis)

75 LOL, NDH ace does a post about not doing politics all the time and you go off topic with politics very early.

Shame on you


****


*hides face*

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (piMMO)

76 Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (wwsoB)

1 internetz fine and a turn in the barrel.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (5DR1j)

77 >>>I enjoy seeing Keira Knightley's tit-tays.

You brought a telescope to the theater then?

Posted by: El Kabong, RINOINO at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (sGU4F)

78 she's living in your head rent-free, man.



I think it's funny that that's offered up as some kind of knock on
her skeptics and opponents. Because I rarely think of her. And yet, no
matter what the subject at hand, there are some people who think it's
time to Stick Up For Sarah, yet again.



Rent-free, baby.





Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:43 PM (LCRYB)

No , she's an example. It's like "sticking up for Zimmerman yet again".

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (AWmfW)

79 I'm glad you're going on vacation, so I will have time to read this post.

Posted by: Truman North at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (I2LwF)

80 she's living in your head rent-free, man.

Posted by: ace
I have to confess, for me it's true. But I think of her as more of a squatter.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (bbTyq)

81 After Rod Dreher's machinations in Orthodox Church in America politics, anything he says to me is dead.

I could fucking care less.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (zlvkY)

82 I enjoy seeing Keira Knightley's tit-tays.


****

She has breasts?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:48 PM (piMMO)

83 Uh, Sleepers was a comedy and you are no Ted Williams...

I have this horrible image of Ace's head wrapped in Reynolds heavy duty freezer tin foil.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 07, 2012 12:49 PM (e/Cti)

84 So AllenG, I'll let you win over the gheys, while I work on the college chicks (the ones who shave)

Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 12:49 PM (ytax8)

85

>>>Trying to become a different kind of Hollywood is the height of folly.
Let the the left ride their moral depravity to whatever depths it will
take them.

I don't understand why fiction and art is "depravity."

If that's your thought, that's fine. Certainly you're not required to read or watch anything you find depraved.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:49 PM (LCRYB)

86 @45 I stopped watching Friends when I was in HS specifically because I could tell it was lowering my resistance to the idea that casual sex is morally wrong. You're right, it does affect you, especially when you're young.

Anyway, I agree with Ace completely. I do my part through reviews on goodreads; I'm often the only reviewer providing a conservative perspective. Funny thing is, I frequently get comments saying, "That's what I was trying to say but couldn't articulate!" So maybe I can make a tiny difference.

Posted by: mrs. peel on phone at December 07, 2012 12:50 PM (UpKJ+)

87 :::Even when the conservative media notes the occasional fiction book, the review is often largely about what the book says about politics or morality. That is, even in a review of fiction we seem over-concerned with the politically didactic usefulness of art.:::

I grew up in a household of non-denominational Christians, commonly referred to as nutjobs. Every bit of entertainment they proffered was based on its religious message. Luckily, neutral content like football was allowed, and back then, they had no idea of what type of movies Showtime played late at night, or I would still be fapping to the brassiere section of the Sears catalog.

This continues today, with my children being gifted by their grandparents approved Christian content like "Veggie Tales" videos. Not horribly bad entertainment, but not good enough that my kids will ask to watch it again.

I get the same annoyance when I hear the same thing about popular movies. If it's an over the top lefty propaganda piece I'll avoid it. But if you have to analyze the themes and suss out what you perceive as the subtle, underlying, *hidden* message, let me save you some time.

I just do not give a fuck.

I have a limited amount of opportunities to watch television or see a movie and I want to be entertained. Do not fuck with my entertainment.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 07, 2012 12:50 PM (MmK+i)

88 One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in politics.
Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (LCRYB)

Tits. She has tits. I like them.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 07, 2012 12:50 PM (t06LC)

89 57 Sometimes Rachel sides with the DSA or Greens over the Dims to be fair.
Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (IS2o0)


That's like colon cancer siding with chronic herpes.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 07, 2012 12:50 PM (XkWWK)

90 >>>After Rod Dreher's machinations in Orthodox Church in America politics, anything he says to me is dead.

Umm...what? Inside baseball?

Seriously, even though I don't know what this refers to, I also DON'T CARE. Is the merit of Dreher's argument or post affected in any way by whatever religious beef you might have with him?

Silly.

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (TuW+p)

91 83 Uh, Sleepers was a comedy and you are no Ted Williams...

I have this horrible image of Ace's head wrapped in Reynolds heavy duty freezer tin foil.
Posted by: Walkers! at December 07, 2012 12:49 PM (e/Cti)


I'm going to go out and buy a gub.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (XkWWK)

92 And my apologies.

I am normally one of the folks citing the "over 100 comments" rule for OT. I didn't even notice how early into the comments we were when I did it myself.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (piMMO)

93 66 the market is so currently rigged -- first, by a venal monopoly which uses its market position in one market (the media, culture, the academy) to leverage a dominant position in another (the political realm).Then perhaps it's not the wisest thing strategically for Team Republican to vote to expand media copyrights, increase draconian file sharing penalties, protect favored cultural grants and open the sluice gates for more college aid.Just saying...

not only that, but the congressional staffer that wrote the position paper on why it would be a pretty good move politically for the GOP to not play ball with big media got outed, fired, and blackballed.
That's the GOP I know and loathe

Posted by: Truman North at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (I2LwF)

94 As much as I'd like to help take back the culture, what this country needs is more STEM majors, not more art types. Plus, I'm better at STEM stuff anyway.

Posted by: JDTAY at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (a0nis)

95 what fucking chance does someone who approaches things from a conservative perspective have?

That's why ace wants those with money to start to get in on the game. Setting up a "think tank" takes a metric butt load of capital. What if a couple of people thinking of doing such a thing, instead, got together and created a production house and distribution group to get conservatives in the game?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (5DR1j)

96 Sounds like this site, nay the conservative movement as a whole, needs to bring back Johnny ColdCuts.

Who's with me? Lets make this whole culture war our bitch. I know the man, er anthropomorphic cold cut sandwich to get the job done.

Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Shtetl G at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (L2eC5)

97 >>>One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in politics.

The answer is 42.

Posted by: El Kabong, RINOINO at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (sGU4F)

98 59
Ace --

Forgive me for being a pessimist, but when you (or
Breitbart) make these sorts of exhortations -- i.e., 'get out there and
win the cultural war by engaging and creating' -- my instinctive
response is: what fucking chance does someone who approaches things from
a conservative perspective have? They'll get crushed like a bug in
Hollywood. You do realize there is an active conspiracy, which affects
pretty much everyone except the biggest, unreachably bankable megastars
(Eastwood), to suppress anyone whose politics are not down-the-line
liberal. How is it even possible to alter the course of Hollywood when
their stranglehold is unbreakable, even when profits are on the line?


Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (TuW+p)

Does it need to be trough Hollywood, there's other ways and forms.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (AWmfW)

99 21 >>>But then they tell us Palin was an idiot for doing "reality shows".

One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in politics.


Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (LCRYB)

I have an obsession with Christina Hendricks's body, most specifically the area herons around her ginormous jugs. In one thousand years there will be legions of classes devoted to the study of her mammory glands, and how they contributed to everlasting world peace as depicted in the movie "Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure".

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (Hb1xB)

100 In other words Pat Buchanan was right.

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (RrD4h)

101 >>>I stopped watching Friends when I was in HS specifically because I
could tell it was lowering my resistance to the idea that casual sex is
morally wrong.


You made a huge mistake.

Posted by: All of your male friends from high school at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (TuW+p)

102 Well its weird--

I think Christopher Nolan and his brother--who also writes are some of the very few Conservative Creative--


yet you don't like--

The Nolan Batmans.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (r2PLg)

103 when you say "What WE need to do is take control of the schools." Does
that mean you are going to get a job teaching or are you just an idea
man?


Sure, I've thought about becoming a teacher. If I'm ever let go at my job now, I'd do it.

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (GQ8sn)

104 Stop trying to shape the world so it fits you. The world outside of you is permitted to take different shapes.


The fuck it is. Love and despair, bitches.


Now to the point of this post, which is excellent btw. I am not unfamiliar with, hmm, how to put this, alternative use of media. One of the main points behind fan works is that if the culture isn't going to tell the stories we want to hear, then, fuck it, we're going to tell the stories ourselves. It's taking over the narrative and making it our own.


This utter rejection of popular culture is ridiculous. As I've mentioned, I grew up in the Evangelical Christian world and the tension between being in the world and of the world was always a huge issue. Hell, I can remember many times when we as members of a youth group were told to bring our unsaved and unchurched friends to something and many of us quite literally did not know anyone to bring. It was a world where you went to church and you went to Christian schools and you played sports in the Christian youth league and you never went outside that. As a result, your circle was limited to those who thought like you and believed like you and it can be quite stultifying.


I'm afraid that some in the conservative movement want to do the same thing. The immensely tedious just unplug, stop watching, why are you giving money to those who hate you statements do not provide any guidance in how to interact with the broader culture. Okay. So I've unplugged. Now what? Seriously, what's the next step? How do we counteract the prevailing view of conservatives as horrible monsters if we refuse to even set foot on the playing field? How? That's a serious question.


There is a nasty strain in some conservative circles of viewing any and all attempts at something creative as being per se Left and per se pointless. That's inane. Art matters, even crappy pop art. Culture matters. Engage with it or be destroyed by it.


I can attest that you can make a difference. The members of the various writing groups to which I belonged were generally shocked into speechlessness upon discovering I'm a conservative. Why? Because conservatives aren't creative and can't write and aren't funny and would never ever ever write about the things which I did. The fact that I did made people question their assumptions. That's a very good thing. It's a small thing but it's a start.



Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (VtjlW)

105
>>>...but the Freezer People actually saw off your head and only freeze that, to reduce cost and space.

mmmm, reanimated brains

The rumors about how they treated Ted Williams' head were gruesome.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (A/zhA)

106 Anyway, I agree with Ace completely. I do my part
through reviews on goodreads; I'm often the only reviewer providing a
conservative perspective. Funny thing is, I frequently get comments
saying, "That's what I was trying to say but couldn't articulate!" So
maybe I can make a tiny difference.

Posted by: mrs. peel on phone at December 07, 2012 12:50 PM (UpKJ+)


You read this post on your phone?!

Impressive.

Posted by: Tami at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (X6akg)

107 @ 21
>>>But then they tell us Palin was an idiot for doing "reality shows".



One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my head unfrozen
and restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to
me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in
politics.







Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (LCRYB)

So Jim DeMint?Quitter.
Got it.





Posted by: T. Hunter - LiB at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (EZl54)

108 "One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in politics. "

I thaw what you did there.
_

Posted by: Moron Horde Member 42448 at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (RuUvx)

109 Mao's Last Dancer.


I never heard of that movie at all. That is why probably nobody went to see it.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (YdQQY)

110 59 Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (TuW+p)


Agreed. And see my post at #17.

It is a very VERY tough battle. But "Obama 2016" did get released, and by Marc Cuban no less.

Hmmm...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (XkWWK)

111 @98

We could always do Youtube. It worked for Psy.

Posted by: JDTAY at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (a0nis)

112 So AllenG, I'll let you win over the gheys

Nah. That's what Gabe is for.

I'll sit and arm chair quarterback supervise.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:53 PM (5DR1j)

113


I have an idea for a new show.
We take Ed Schulz, and follow him around every day and see what his life is like.
Here is Ed watching TV, drinking a Bud, arm wrestling a large lesbian, eating, eating, eating, eating, eating, eating, eating, eating...drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking...eating, eating eatingeatingeating...going out to eat, going out to eat...kicking an old man in the balls, eating, making fun of gays and queers...eating. Eating. Eating.
Ranting. ranting.
Then we could have Ed schulz and Ed Asner hanging out together, like two manly bachelors, atlking about Lou Grant, and that annoying weaselly faced guy...oh, I hated that guy.
If Bea Arthur were still alive, we could have a three way dinner date, and sex, with all of them, it would be fun.
But seriously, the idea is to have a good show, then insert political ideas...and the ideas of conservatism speak to people in a way that they don't know...when I watched The Fountainhead for the first time, I was energized...it speaks to everyone.
However, the gates are closed, in the mass media, but not online...but then, getting funding is hard because of the spead-out nature of the internet.
Sheldon Whatshisname woudl have been much better off taking that 150 mil he gave to that asshole Rinse Putzis and funding a goddamn internet tv station.

Posted by: Rev. Dr. Buzz Miller The Shit at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (ApGOC)

114 Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:51 PM (TuW+p)

He's a liar that actively worked to cover for the Primate of our church who attempted to cover up a rape by one of our priests.

He stole confidential documents from the Church.

It's ok. Orthodoxy is just the latest religion he's trashed, having finished with Methodists and the Roman Catholics years ago.

Fuck him.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (zlvkY)

115
I keep making this observation, but I think it's worth making several dozen more times: Although conservatives pride themselves on "Not worshipping the government" and "having interests and lives outside of politics" -- as contrasted with liberals -- in fact, if you consume conservative media, you will find our media completely rubbishes that claim, because the expressly conservative media is almost entirely about government and politics.
Even when the conservative media notes the occasional fiction book, the review is often largely about what the book says about politics or morality. That is, even in a review of fiction we seem over-concerned with the politically didactic usefulness of art


I am glad I am not the only one to notice this. Big Hollywood is a big offender in this regard, I think.


BTW, I actually enjoy these cultural/art discussions as much or more than the political stuff.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (eA3m/)

116 Nice idea ace, but how can you watch a film just for the fun of it when nothing good has been made since 1939? The only good TV show ever made was Hazel. A lot of people like I Love Lucy, and I suppose if you enjoy having the antics of a garish whore jammed down your throat it was a pretty good show. Many of us that actually care about this country don't have time for "comedy" or "adventure" or "enjoyment of things" but, please don't let that interrupt your viewing of sodomites pleasuring each other.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (+lsX1)

117 Give Glenn Beck credit--he's building a media empire to get traditional values back into the culture. GBTV, publishing, music, film.

Posted by: zsasz at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (SYS+p)

118 I have a limited amount of opportunities to watch television or see a movie and I want to be entertained. Do not fuck with my entertainment.


****

it takes a Hollywod-type a bit of effort to get on my no-watch list. A few, however, have made it.

I will not spend one red cent nor offer my viewership to anything with Sean Penn starring in it. Alec Baldwin is damn near unwatchable to me now.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (piMMO)

119 Hollywood has gotten depraved more than usual. Now most shows have an incest angle. They have sunk to that in order to shock. And it is not about some poor kid getting abused and how it is wrong but how it is okay between consenting adults. Yuck. Exhibit A:

GOT
Dexter
Boardwalk Empires

Posted by: Walkers! at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (e/Cti)

120 So what had more impact, Leoniades' "boy-lovers" quote in 300, or Will and Grace?

Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 12:55 PM (UjSt7)

121 By accident I caught maybe a minute of it once. I thought it was really dumb and that homos should protest it because it made them look like shallow flighty idiots.

I'd love to see a show that doesn't make them look like flighty idiots. Face it, Jake, it's Television Town. Any wisdom that there may be in a sit-com resides within the breast of a sassy black woman, a mature newly-single woman who's broken away from her unfulfilling life and dull (probably gay, too) husband or a young woman trying to make it on her own in the big, bad world. Black and gay men are token friends, there to add finger-snaps and color; any white men are angsty emo-soaked tortured broken souls needing a woman's (or, rather wymyn's) gentle touch.

BTW, Ace,excellent post with some good thought to chew on. You're really earning the Val-U-Rite today.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 07, 2012 12:55 PM (zF6Iw)

122
I've never seen Will and Grace.

I envy you.



As far as conservatives reviewing films without getting all hung up on the Conservative Message, I like Big Hollywood.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 12:55 PM (/kI1Q)

123 @87

I think EoJ is right. The problem with the conservative counter-counter revolution is too often the end product is crap. Even if I agree with the message, I don't want to watch because its absolute shit.

On the other hand, asome stuff that escapes hollywood is unintentionally (maybe) conservative. Think about the new Batmans. The problem is the connection is not made.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 07, 2012 12:55 PM (t06LC)

124 Nice idea ace, but how can you watch a film just for the fun of it when nothing good has been made since 1939? The only good TV show ever made was Hazel. A lot of people like I Love Lucy, and I suppose if you enjoy having the antics of a garish whore jammed down your throat it was a pretty good show. Many of us that actually care about this country don't have time for "comedy" or "adventure" or "enjoyment of things" but, please don't let that interrupt your viewing of sodomites pleasuring each other.


****

Yeah, I know.

Off your lawn.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 12:55 PM (piMMO)

125 This continues today, with my children being gifted by their grandparents approved Christian content like "Veggie Tales" videos. Not horribly bad entertainment, but not good enough that my kids will ask to watch it again.


I like Veggie Tales! So do my kids! We think they're hilarious. They sometimes rent them from the libraryby their own choice. The positive messages are just a bonus.

I'm not arguing, everybody has their own tastes, but this struck me as funny.

*ducks before EoJ slaughters him*

Posted by: Truman North at December 07, 2012 12:55 PM (I2LwF)

126 I think

Wizard of Oz is pretty damn Conservative--but no one else seems to get that.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 12:56 PM (r2PLg)

127 It's time for our own "Long March Through the Institutions."

Every grab a Bible and your barbecue apron.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 12:56 PM (zlvkY)

128 119, but still no Burke

Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 12:56 PM (UjSt7)

129 One of the best conservative movies was Ghostbusters (I'm channeling Jonah Goldberg here). Why? It is full of occult references, after all.

Two basic things: "In the private sector, they expect results." and the "heavy" was from the EPA.

If you want to make a conservative story, you have to make it about what conservatism means on the personal level. Basic things like: There is no such thing as a free lunch. A bureaucrat has no reason to be nice to you. The greatest virtue is personal sacrifice. There are consequences to bad actions.

Also, making the villain a politician -- even a conservative one -- reinforces the idea that politicians are much more dangerous than people in the private sector. Heroes can be small business owners. Professors are pompous and don't really know anything, etc. The best one for a procedural is the liberal hypocrite, the environmentalist who's actually in it for the money.

But don't try an actual conservative story. It doesn't work. Neither does a liberal story, but the advantage that the liberals have is that they have the hammer, so they just keep it up with the schlock.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 12:57 PM (T0NGe)

130 >>>That's why ace wants those with money to start to get in on the game.
Setting up a "think tank" takes a metric butt load of capital. What if a
couple of people thinking of doing such a thing, instead, got together
and created a production house and distribution group to get
conservatives in the game?


Yes, but this ignores the other problem: anything in mainstream culture that is specifically identified with a "conservative" media group (or production house) will be immediately pushed in the "right wing" ghetto. Marginalized, dismissed, panned, ignored. Ideally your production company WOULDN'T have any explicit ideological identity, it would just make good flicks.

The problem, however, then becomes the ironclad rule of institutions: any organization not explicitly based on conservative ideological principles will inevitably become liberal over time.

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:57 PM (TuW+p)

131 I remember Billy Crystal when he was gay ...
... on television.

It was a primetime show called "Soap"
... in the 70s.

Nigh on 40 years ago.

/waves hands in front of face, snaps fingers/

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 07, 2012 12:57 PM (RuUvx)

132 I enjoy seeing Keira Knightley's tit-tays.


She had nice ones in King Arthur.


But they later had to admit they digitally altered them.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 12:57 PM (YdQQY)

133 Will and Grace?! Hey, Joe, 2001 called, they want their sitcoms back?

Never gets old.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 07, 2012 12:57 PM (Ec6wH)

134 >>>I have a limited amount of opportunities to watch television or see a movie and I want to be entertained. Do not fuck with my entertainment.

I think that any statement which represents The Ideal is hard to argue with, and people don't bother arguing with it -- even though they plan on ignoring it or know it's not true.

For example, the idea that as a Christian, literally everything you do must be in service to Christ. This is a cherished ideal and I don't mean to undermine it. I would say, though, that the average Christian is not serving Christ when he watches football or shoots his gun at a range or hunts or has sex with his or her spouse. These things are done for fun.

Nevertheless, it's kind of hard, a rhetorical matter, to argue against the sentiment.

This is broadly true, not just about the Christian ideal. I cannot argue with a conservative who offers, as The Ideal, that I must at all times be working on the cause of Freedom and Liberty and the Constitution.

But I know it's not true, and I don't intend to live my life as if I believe that. I need my me-time, baby.

Liberals do this all the time, too. They're always nattering on about how they can't buy Non-Organic Grapes and how they feel guilty about eating in restaurants that aren't strictly locavore.

This is why there are anti-porn parades and few normal citizens marching in a parade that says "Nah, we'd like to keep porn."

"The Ideal" can always be dropped as an argument-winner. But even though it's a strong bit of rhetoric, I think it's important to point out it IS in fact just rhetoric.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:57 PM (LCRYB)

135 I also think you can twist things up--

Liberal songs like--

The Psychedelic Furs song--

Here Come Cowboys

and turn their sarcasm to a Conservative message.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 12:58 PM (r2PLg)

136 Another point...most overtly liberal movies BOMB.

All those anti-war, anti-Iraq, anti-Bush movies that came out last decade...very few of them made any money and most of them were financial bombs.

I think people view any political discussion in entertainment as preachy, whether they agree with it or not, and avoid it.

It's the big schlocky blockbusters that sneak in the messages (Avatar for instance), that are the problem.

Posted by: El Kabong, RINOINO at December 07, 2012 12:58 PM (sGU4F)

137 "A lot of people like I Love Lucy, and I suppose if you enjoy having the
antics of a garish whore jammed down your throat it was a pretty good
show."





I'm.....I......you......speechless.

Posted by: Tami at December 07, 2012 12:58 PM (X6akg)

138
"One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my
head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in politics."

Just as with the Zimmerman thread below, there are those among us who believe in basic truth and justice. We recognize that powerful social and media interests can distort and mischaracterize people and ideas that, at their core, are good and right.

We believe that when we allow these interests to succeed by standing by silently while the mainstream meme takes hold, the world loses.

It's just kind of thing with us.

Posted by: jwest at December 07, 2012 12:59 PM (ZDsRL)

139 I like Veggie Tales! So do my kids! We think they're hilarious. They
sometimes rent them from the libraryby their own choice. The positive
messages are just a bonus.


Me, too. One of our favorite CDs for the kids is "Bob and Larry Sing the 70s." You just haven't heard "Funky Town" until you've heard it sung by Jimmy Gourd and Jr. Asparagus. Just sayin'.

But EoJ's larger point is true- and one I tried to make earlier. Let's focus on "Good." Then we can focus on "Conservative."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:59 PM (5DR1j)

140 But they later had to admit they digitally altered them.

What? Really?

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 12:59 PM (GQ8sn)

141 >>>the average Christian is not serving Christ when he watches football or
shoots his gun at a range or hunts or has sex with his or her spouse.
These things are done for fun.

Actually, when I'm laying the old lady, that one's up in the air. She always screams, "Oh God!".

OK, not always. Only when the kids walk in.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 12:59 PM (zlvkY)

142 We gotta be sneaky about it. That's what its come down to. You go to Burbank saying your serving the conservative message you will get run out of the lot.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (AuAR1)

143 This is the same 'Game of Thrones' that unexpectedly had George Bush's decapitated head in the dvd, the founding clans of Westeros are interesting,
Romney was in politics, how did that work out again?

Posted by: phillip fry at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (ctjsq)

144 I get the same annoyance when I hear the same thing
about popular movies. If it's an over the top lefty propaganda piece
I'll avoid it. But if you have to analyze the themes and suss out what
you perceive as the subtle, underlying, *hidden* message, let me save you some time.



I just do not give a fuck.



I have a limited amount of opportunities to watch television or see a
movie and I want to be entertained. Do not fuck with my entertainment.


Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 07, 2012 12:50 PM (MmK+i)

Effective propaganda usually are *hidden*.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (AWmfW)

145 131 Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 07, 2012 12:57 PM (RuUvx)


I remember David Brenner's show "Snip" getting the axe from NBC just before the first show aired (1980 or so). He played a gay hairdresser. Shocking, eh?

Now, if it doesn't have a lactating transexual geriatric midget, it's not must-see TV (TV, get it?)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (XkWWK)

146 Great, Ace. Thanks.

Posted by: Matt from CO at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (HdB1a)

147

Since it's Friday, later can we discuss the use of memory retrieval devices in sci-fi?

Often times in movies we see people (dead or alive) get hooked up to these machines that magically make memories appear on a monitor.

FRINGE did it a couple of times, too.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (dmsib)

148 The old institutions are done, let them burn, control the new ones

Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (49lPc)

149 Didn't it seem a little scandalous that Lucy was married to a filthy Cuban? It was the 50s after all.

Posted by: Truman North at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (I2LwF)

150 I don't see how this affects me. Can we get back to blaming Mitt Romney?

/sarc

Posted by: t-bird at December 07, 2012 01:01 PM (FcR7P)

151 46 The next "Brazil" will have to be animated, that is divorced from the corrupted Hollywood financing model, without actors who fear subtle blacklisting, implemented by anonymous artists working in Nashville or Utah, advertised virally via 10,000 word blog reviews, and distributed on-line.

---

I think a big reason Terry Gilliam was allowed to win in that particular case was that Universal head Sid Shineberg was a certified retard who had gotten the company in trouble before over his blustering.

The closest thing I've heard of to the Battle For Brazil since then would probably be Troy Duffy and the story of Boondock Saints, which got no theatrical release due to him pissing off the Weinsteins and only got saved on video due to being a "Blockbuster Video exclusive".

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:01 PM (e0xKF)

152 >>>Hollywood has gotten depraved more than usual. Now most shows have an
incest angle. They have sunk to that in order to shock. And it is not
about some poor kid getting abused and how it is wrong but how it is
okay between consenting adults. Yuck.


The only problem is that this complaint runs up against the reality that Arrested Development is the single funniest, most brilliant comedy of the past 30 years. You'll pry that show -- incest themes and all -- out of my cold, dead hands.

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 01:01 PM (TuW+p)

153
Yep and not only are the movie critiques advanced based on the if it gives the proper leftist message, but so are their stupid awards. Cider House Rules? Best Screenplay? Why yes its pro-abortion movie. Avatar? Nine nominations? Why yes its an enviro, anti-military, we were terrible to the indians movie.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 07, 2012 01:02 PM (n/ubI)

154 As much as I'd like to help take back the culture, what this country
needs is more STEM majors, not more art types. Plus, I'm better at STEM
stuff anyway.


America doesn't make scientists.

We import them.

The lesson is: Kids, don't learn science (and certainly not math, that'll just keep you out of law school) because we're flooding the market and giving you a rotten education so you couldn't compete if you tried.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:02 PM (T0NGe)

155 Being a Muslim terrorist is still alright with us though.

Posted by: MFM at December 07, 2012 01:02 PM (N2yhW)

156 >>>
The old institutions are done, let them burn, control the new ones

Posted by: Jean at December 07, 2012 01:00 PM (49lPc)

With all respect, Jean, knowing you as one of the most genuinely conservative posters here, you sound a hell of a lot like Abby Hoffman right there.Just sayin....

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 01:03 PM (zlvkY)

157 "A lot of people like I Love Lucy, and I suppose if you enjoy having the
antics of a garish whore jammed down your throat it was a pretty good
show."




*slow golf clap*


What's hilarious is that there are those who would agree with you.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 07, 2012 01:03 PM (VtjlW)

158 147

Since it's Friday, later can we discuss the use of memory retrieval devices in sci-fi?

Often times in movies we see people (dead or alive) get hooked up to these machines that magically make memories appear on a monitor.

FRINGE did it a couple of times, too.

---

One of my favorite versions of this is the "SQID technology" in Strange Days, which was similar to wearing a body wire.

If the person is wearing the SQID rig, you experience everything they experienced while recording, be it a teenaged girl taking a shower or a liquor store robber falling to his death.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:04 PM (e0xKF)

159 "But I know it's not true, and I don't intend to live my life as if I believe that. I need my me-time, baby.

As a God-Botherer, I can tell you that you're okay.

"To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

A time to blog, and a time to chill out, read, maybe rub one out, if you feel like it.

A time to heal; a time to break down,
and a time to build up"

'Stuff King Solomon Wrote"
4th Edition, Revised.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 07, 2012 01:04 PM (RuUvx)

160 @156

Arguably, Hoffman won.

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at December 07, 2012 01:04 PM (EZl54)

161 Lu Signiuruzzu li cosi, li fici dritti, vinni lu diavulu e li sturcìu.

God made things straight, the devil came and twisted them

Posted by: Ace's Consigliere at December 07, 2012 01:04 PM (wwsoB)

162 What? Really?


Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 12:59 PM (GQ8sn)

She admitted it in an interview.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 01:05 PM (YdQQY)

163 So to summarize what Ace said, it comes down to this one simple, salient concept....

Hollywood sucks the Barbed Cock of Satan

Message received loud and clear, Ace!

Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at December 07, 2012 01:05 PM (Jls4P)

164 Meh, it's all a generational conflict. Every generation challenges the institutions of its predecessors, and find themselves occupying the same moral territory as their great-great-grandparents.

As a GenXer, I reflexively despise baby boomers, reject their BS, and look forward to euthanizing them. Likewise, Millennials probably despise me because I'm the worst thing they can imagine: Judgmental! As such, I look forward to drafting them and sending them off to their deaths to fight the Chinese/Russians/North Koreans/Arabs/Kazakhs, etc.

100 years from now, we'll be back to clubbing baby seals.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 07, 2012 01:05 PM (Ec6wH)

165 So what had more impact, Leoniades' "boy-lovers" quote in 300, or Will and Grace?

Jerry Sandusky.

But seriously, the advantage to entertainment propaganda is that it never shows you the consequences. It shows you the goofy, funloving 30-year-old hippie but it doesn't show the poor, clueless 50-year-old pothead who has wasted his life and is alone with nothing but his pot.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:05 PM (T0NGe)

166 or I would still be fapping to the brassiere section of the Sears catalog.


And here I thought that was my own personal niche.

Dammit!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 07, 2012 01:06 PM (sbV1u)

167 Forgive me for being a pessimist, but when you (or Breitbart) make these sorts of exhortations -- i.e., 'get out there and win the cultural war by engaging and creating' -- my instinctive response is: what fucking chance does someone who approaches things from a conservative perspective have? They'll get crushed like a bug in Hollywood. You do realize there is an active conspiracy, which affects pretty much everyone except the biggest, unreachably bankable megastars (Eastwood), to suppress anyone whose politics are not down-the-line liberal. How is it even possible to alter the course of Hollywood when their stranglehold is unbreakable, even when profits are on the line?
Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (TuW+p)

Jeff, that's what's wonderful about our current state- there are lots of ways to create content that has nothing to do with Hollywood.

Posted by: Matt from CO at December 07, 2012 01:06 PM (HdB1a)

168 163 So to summarize what Ace said, it comes down to this one simple, salient concept....

Hollywood sucks the Barbed Cock of Satan

Message received loud and clear, Ace!

---

I've been saying that about the music industry for 20 years!

That wasn't Hammer dancing around, that was Satan's sperm eating its way through the lining of his stomach.

Posted by: Undead Bill Hicks at December 07, 2012 01:06 PM (e0xKF)

169 Ace should take part of the blog and do an ongoing comedy series--story thingy--with maybe an assist from some of the commenters.


Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:06 PM (r2PLg)

170 >>>Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 07, 2012 01:05 PM (Ec6wH)

Short version: GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN YOU GOD DAMNED KIDS!!!!1!1!1

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 01:06 PM (zlvkY)

171

'Strange Days' sounds like something I should look into.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 01:06 PM (xIzGn)

172
"The old institutions are done, let them burn, control the new ones"

Nah. Walk away from the old ones and build new ones.

US 2.0. TX to NC and whoever else wants to be free again. Fuck the rest.

Posted by: Jaws at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM (4I3Uo)

173 >>>I think Christopher Nolan and his brother--who also writes are some of the very few Conservative Creative--

Well as I always say I think The Prestige is one of the best movies of the past 30 years.

But I have a major aesthetic problem with him. Look, he writes 220 page scripts and and attempts to edit them down to a 2:40 minute run-time via savage edits and far too much cross-cutting.

The time to discover what the essence of a movie is (and what can and should be cut from it) is in the writing stage, not post-production in the edit bay.

Nolan has gotten good at savagely, savagely written over-shot movies (too much story filmed, too much film) so that he gets away with this, at least with most people. But I notice it. Nothing in his movies has a chance to breathe anymore because he's so over-written and over-shot for a 2 hour movie (which means a 2:45 minute movie, for Nolan) that he has edit the thing so that there's hardly a moment to think about anything you're seeing, no quiet moments. It's bad for pacing, it's just bad for story telling.

I think Nolan's real metier might be a six-part minseries or something. He seems to want to make six hour stories. Fine. But then he should do so in a six hour format.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM (LCRYB)

174 The most conservative movie I think I have ever seen is the original Red Dawn. Yes, Wizard of Oz was conservative but nobody noticed that in 1939 or in the 50s when I first saw it because the sentiments that made it conservative were NORMAL then.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM (YdQQY)

175 Okay, off to play Star Wars.

Posted by: Truman North at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM (I2LwF)

176 171

'Strange Days' sounds like something I should look into.

---

Underrated sci-fi film, IMHO. Good cast between Ralph Fiennes, Angela Bassett, Tom Sizemore, and Juliette Lewis before she hit rock bottom.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM (e0xKF)

177 Showtime played late at night, or I would still be fapping to the brassiere section of the Sears catalog.

I always wanted to hang around in the store to see the woman who was shopping for the D cup bras


Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 01:08 PM (wwsoB)

178
For example, the idea that as a Christian, literally everything you do must be in service to Christ. This is a cherished ideal and I don't mean to undermine it. I would say, though, that the average Christian is not serving Christ when he watches football or shoots his gun at a range or hunts or has sex with his or her spouse. These things are done for fun.

Ace,I don't think you really understand what we mean by that. I am finding it really hard to explain, but think in terms of attitudes and understanding how a specific activity relates to the truth of the gospel, not just specific actions.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 07, 2012 01:08 PM (eA3m/)

179 I hated 'Strange Days' with a passion, for many reasons, among them the crazy subplot with Juliette Lewis, then again we are unconfortably close to the dystopia, they predicted about a decade late.


Posted by: phillip fry at December 07, 2012 01:08 PM (ctjsq)

180 "...have tried to hone my skills as best as I can in writing material that has a conservative message without hitting the audience over the head. If I craft it correctly, the powers that be never recognize that they are being ridiculed/criticized. Stay tuned... "
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 07, 2012 12:38 PM (XkWWK)

That which is truly good will be published. I suggest forgetting about that 'hiding the conservative message' business and focus more on writing engaging fiction (or nonfiction) someone would like to read.

Posted by: troyriser at December 07, 2012 01:08 PM (vtiE6)

181
He who rocks the cradle rules the world. Hollyweird has been rocking the cradle for HOW many years now?

Posted by: Jam Their Transmission Damnit! at December 07, 2012 01:08 PM (hoOQm)

182
'Strange Days' sounds like something I should look into.

---

Underrated sci-fi film, IMHO. Good cast between Ralph Fiennes, Angela Bassett, Tom Sizemore, and Juliette Lewis before she hit rock bottom.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM (e0xKF)

_____________________

I loved that movie--but then I have a "thing": for Fiennes--so...

Also damn it--The Nolan Batmans were Conservative yet-

Acey no likey.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:09 PM (r2PLg)

183 Seriously? Haley is thinking of McMaster?

----

Widely regarded for his intellectual incuriosity, McMaster is also known for his membership at the same “whites only” country club that dragged down former SCGOP chairman Katon Dawson’s bid to lead the national “Republican” party.
---

Fucking great pick.

Posted by: RWC at December 07, 2012 01:09 PM (fWAjv)

184 "The old institutions are done, let them burn, control the new ones"

Nah. Walk away from the old ones and build new ones.

US 2.0. TX to NC and whoever else wants to be free again. Fuck the rest.

Posted by: Jaws at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM

Cui multi cosi accumenza, nudda nni finisci.

Who starts many things, finishes nothing.

Posted by: Ace's Consigliere at December 07, 2012 01:09 PM (wwsoB)

185 Anyone here ever consider that the so-called liberal media is driven entirely by PROFIT?

Think those liberal blockbusters with Nick Cage or Bruce Willis spraying machine gun fire are made without the almighty dollar in mind?

This is why conservatives will never, ever win this argument. Ace is correct here. Conservative culture and entertainment is ALWAYS explicitly about politics, and is read by normal human as what it is: propaganda.

Art is subversive. Story at 11. You guys won't ever get it. Your grampas were shouting about the evils of rock 'n' roll and hosing down negroes for standing up for themselves. You're already fossils, but can never see that it's true.

The rest of the world laughs and carries on.

Posted by: Olaf at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM (t1NLo)

186 Were we really supposed to read that?

Posted by: Gerry at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM (+xtJ9)

187 Cui multi cosi accumenza, nudda nni finisci.

Who starts many things, finishes nothing.

---

I'm slow to finish but I'm quick to start.

Posted by: Anthony Kiedis at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM (e0xKF)

188

Juliette Lewis is the daughter of Filo Beddo's brother.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM (oLmMq)

189 From what I have seen of him McMaster is probably OK, but he is far from Jim DeMint.



As far as being a member of "whites only" country club, that's OK.....if you are a Democrat.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM (YdQQY)

190 I'll give an example. I subscribe (pay) to Netflix streaming, even though I could get to it free through someone else's password. The reason for that is that it stores my preferences and creates movie categories that are in the same vein as stuff I've previously watched.

If I'm using someone else's account, I get suggestions based on THEIR tastes. The thing is, there are thousands of movies on Netflix so this really does matter. What if they like RomComs? Shoot me, please. So to me that fee of $10 a month is worth it.

One strange category it has for me is gay/lesbian movies. Wtf! I haven't watched any movies in that genre, unless I was pass out drunk and don't remember a thing, a possibility that does actually exist. Also, a WHOLE category for that? I suspect jimi ray hacked into my account.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2012 01:12 PM (ccXZP)

191 184 posts without a troll.

Must be a record.

Posted by: JDTAY at December 07, 2012 01:12 PM (a0nis)

192 >>>Posted by: Olaf at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM (t1NLo)

Blow me, Loaf.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 01:12 PM (zlvkY)

193 I think Ace is on to something. Things like Will and Grace 'normalized' homosexuality; simultaneously, those who were opposed became the outsider, despite the fact that is has been the prevailing view since the dawn of mankind.

Movie and TV's have done their best to make conservatives and the values therein seem 'weird' or 'crazy' and the push back is always the same old trop about liberal media bias. While it may be true, it becomes less effective after time

Conservative need to do more things that show them as normal, likable people who have things in common with the non-political masses---just as liberals have done-- without having to insert politics at every point.

We don't do this. Right now our main guys are Glen Beck crying, Rush Limbaugh calling a woman a slut, and Bill O'Reilly being a smug jackass. We need likable characters that only occasionally engage in politics, as opposed to unlikable characters that do nothing but engage in politics.

Posted by: taylork at December 07, 2012 01:12 PM (ppNDn)

194
I really liked Inception. Didn't think I would. The french actress is always outstanding in all her movies.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 07, 2012 01:12 PM (e/Cti)

195 Your grampas were shouting about the evils of rock 'n' roll and hosing down negroes for standing up for themselves.


Come here, boy!

Posted by: Bull Connor at December 07, 2012 01:12 PM (GQ8sn)

196 But EoJ's larger point is true- and one I tried to make earlier. Let's focus on "Good." Then we can focus on "Conservative."
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 12:59 PM (5DR1j)
Allen, are you familiar with the musician Charlie Peacock? He has been pushing for excellence in Christian music for a long time now, and has founded a studio to do just that, I believe. He is also one of the few Christian artists to write stuff other than quasi-worship songs, I think.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 07, 2012 01:12 PM (eA3m/)

197
Well as I always say I think The Prestige is one of the best movies of the past 30 years.

But I have a major aesthetic problem with him. Look, he writes 220 page scripts and and attempts to edit them down to a 2:40 minute run-time via savage edits and far too much cross-cutting.

The time to discover what the essence of a movie is (and what can and should be cut from it) is in the writing stage, not post-production in the edit bay.

Nolan has gotten good at savagely, savagely written over-shot movies (too much story filmed, too much film) so that he gets away with this, at least with most people. But I notice it. Nothing in his movies has a chance to breathe anymore because he's so over-written and over-shot for a 2 hour movie (which means a 2:45 minute movie, for Nolan) that he has edit the thing so that there's hardly a moment to think about anything you're seeing, no quiet moments. It's bad for pacing, it's just bad for story telling.

I think Nolan's real metier might be a six-part minseries or something. He seems to want to make six hour stories. Fine. But then he should do so in a six hour format.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:07 PM (LCRYB)

_____________________


Hmmmmm....

Well what is worse?

Stretching nothing into something--which is what a lot of Hollywood does--

witness Midnight in Paris--where the film opens like a slide show of someone's trip to Paris for ten whole minutes--

or--

The Nolan Problem.

At least they aren't lazy--and trying to turn nothing into something.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (r2PLg)

198 Also damn it--The Nolan Batmans were Conservative yet-



Acey no likey.


But that's the thing. He shouldn't have to like them just because they're Conservative. Listen to Christian radio all day for a day. I dare you. Unless you're really lucky, you'll be going insane from how syrupy some of that dreck is. Some of it is good. Most of it on the good side of mediocre. But some of it is absolute drivel.

Unfortunately, there's a much higher drivel to decent ratio than in most popular music. A lot of that is because Christians are expected to like Christian music because it's Christian and regardless of if its good. We don't want to fall into that trap.

I, personally, really loved Batman Begins and Dark Knight (haven't seen DKR, yet). But someone not liking them doesn't mean they don't like the conservative message- it means they don't like them.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (5DR1j)

199 McMaster, he was one of the weasels, that employed Will folks,

Posted by: phillip fry at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (ctjsq)

200
180"...have tried to hone my skills as best as I can in writing material that has a conservative message without hitting the audience over the head. If I craft it correctly, the powers that be never recognize that they are being ridiculed/criticized. Stay tuned... "

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 07, 2012 12:38 PM (XkWWK)

A big part of the problem is that liberals have 50 times moreopportunity to subtly impart their message, while conservatives feel the need to hammer people over the head when they have the chance.

Posted by: jwest at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (ZDsRL)

201 Many of us that actually care about this country don't have time for "comedy" or "adventure" or "enjoyment of things" but, please don't let that interrupt your viewing of sodomites pleasuring each other.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at December 07, 2012 12:54 PM (+lsX1)


There's more to life than politics and 'caring about this country'. And that's in fact a conservative view. If your world is so narrow and constrained that there's no place for enjoyment or pleasure, you're doing it wrong and wasting a precious gift.

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (XkotV)

202 The rest of the world laughs and carries on.

And the fire cometh.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (QupBk)

203 I think people view any political discussion in entertainment as preachy, whether they agree with it or not, and avoid it.

And that's not how they got in the position they did. They did by showing culture as they wanted it and selling it as "cool", while selling the idea ours was "uncool" (or mean, or evil, or dumb, or...) That's the tack we should be taking--telling a good story where the values are in the assumptions, not the dialogue.

Also, I find myself worrying less about the Monolithic Big Media these days, owing to the rise of the Million Small Media. Oh, they're trying to entrench themselves ever deeper, but they're less relevant in a lot of ways--that's why they're trying to get their tentacles onto the internet, to try to act as gatekeepers there as well. That's the fight to have, if you ask me--someone needs to 'liberate' YouTube, at the very least, or come up with an alternative that blows it out of the water.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (GBXon)

204 186 Were we really supposed to read that?
Posted by: Gerry at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM (+xtJ9)

Going to be a pop quiz on it. If you score high enough your monthly membership rate is lowered from 10$ a month to =$5.50 every two weeks.

Posted by: RWC at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (fWAjv)

205 Anyone here ever consider that the so-called liberal media is driven entirely by PROFIT?

---

If they believed that, they'd make more rousing military pictures along the lines of Black Hawk Down and less anti-war hit pieces like Green Zone and Lions For Lambs.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (e0xKF)

206 It isn't the liberal moralizing that grates on me as much as the self importance. Oscar Hammerstein really did strike a blow for social progressand ending racialbigotryinSouth Pacific. But today's Hollywood liberals all think they are doing the same sort of brave trailblazing. Sorry, but showing two affluent homos having a good time and being accepted by their hipster straight friends is not the same thing.

Posted by: rockmom at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (zfs2X)

207 I remember Billy Crystal when he was gay ...

... on television.



It was a primetime show called "Soap"

... in the 70s.



Nigh on 40 years ago.


Yeah and the gay lobby excoriated it because the first story was about Billy's character offering to undergo a sex change to be with his athlete boyfriend. They were offended that it implied homosexuality required a change of gender.

And of course nobody said anything about Chaz Bono so...

Me, I'm waiting until gay marriage is anti-gay again. It was before. Even suggesting the idea was the height of homophobia (it was all bourgeois and middle-class donchaknow). Hell, marriage was the Worst Thing Ever to feminists.

And, of course, because no gay person actually knows a straight male, they think that marriage is unicorns and flowing dresses and parties with a dance floor.

Ah, when mom suggests you settle down with your lover and actually have a legal binding lifetime agreement and do it before you're gray or that person you like well enough but is kind of crazy starts insisting on a wedding... Be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:14 PM (T0NGe)

208 152 -

Poor George Michael... as if he didn't already feel guilty enough for his innocent crush on his cousin, now he's being blamed for "incest hemes?"

The kid just can't win...

Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2012 01:14 PM (VUmqF)

209 Many of us that actually care about this country don't have time for "comedy" or "adventure" or "enjoyment of things" but, please don't let that interrupt your viewing of sodomites pleasuring each other.

So, everything is political?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at December 07, 2012 01:14 PM (GBXon)

210 and Bill O'Reilly being a smug jackass


When did BOR become one of "us"?

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 01:14 PM (YdQQY)

211 What you can actually do is watch--

Inception and The Dark Knight more than once....

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:15 PM (r2PLg)

212 Conservative need to do more things that show them as normal, likable people who have things in common with the non-political masses---just as liberals have done-- without having to insert politics at every point.

---------------

I can only imagine how compelling a family drama with no drama, or a comedy without any subversive nature would be. Can't wait until someone thinks it'd sell a lot of soap and Toyotas puts it on TV.

Posted by: Olaf at December 07, 2012 01:15 PM (t1NLo)

213 One strange category it has for me is gay/lesbian movies. Wtf! I haven't watched any movies in that genre, unless I was pass out drunk and don't remember a thing, a possibility that does actually exist. Also, a WHOLE category for that? I suspect jimi ray hacked into my account.

---

Did you watch a bunch of films with a lot of girl-girl action in it, like Gia or Wild Things?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:15 PM (e0xKF)

214 It's not about gay marriage or fucking outside of wedlock or abortion or any other "issue".

It's about creating a culture that can be melded to accept anything. The average 18 year old voter literally can not tell you who the president is, so getting them to accept that the rich need to be put out on the street so they can go study Art History is child's play.

It's intentional. Of course. And very well played by the other side.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at December 07, 2012 01:15 PM (zlvkY)

215 and Bill O'Reilly being a smug jackass


When did BOR become one of "us"?




When guys like Letterman and John Stewart and the chicks on the View said as much.

Posted by: taylork at December 07, 2012 01:16 PM (ppNDn)

216 Allen, are you familiar with the musician Charlie Peacock?

Can't say I've heard the name. I prefer Christian Rock when I'm listening to Christian music. Casting Crowns is about as "soft" as I like my music.

I really like (liked?) Creed. It's a shame that Scott Stapp wanted to go onto an overtly Christian label, and the rest of the band didn't want to join him. It killed all their careers (more or less).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:17 PM (5DR1j)

217 I have to go to work soon so I don't have time to read the whole thread so sorry if someone has pointed this out:
The media world is fake. All doctors on Law and Order need to be regulated and are evil, Republicans hate women, gays, etc. All crimes are solved in time for the next show. All hero and heroine characters are busy "collecting toys for kids" or "volunteering to clean up the lake" or "help stop global warming" "making fun of Sarah Palin" etc. Gays, Muslims and Feminists are exactly like each other and liberals and have only cute misunderstandings.
None of it is real and yet billions of people think it is real life. Read Slashdot or CBS or NBC or ABC comments sometime and see what working liberals think is real: The same things. Really. They could have a jihad Johnny cut their spouse's throat in front of them and they would try to apologize to the guy by relating something they saw on a TV show. When reality uses something like the popular media as its life model, it is time to let it all burn.

Posted by: Daybrother hoping for SMOD at December 07, 2012 01:17 PM (+paCV)

218 And very well played by the other side.

They have the natural advantage. It's a heck of a lot easier to roll the boulder of civilization down the hill than to push it up.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 07, 2012 01:17 PM (QupBk)

219 I'm looking at the sidebar and see the story about toxoplasmosis being related to suicidal behavior and increased risk-taking.

It makes me wonder if nutty people should now be referred to as "cat-shit crazy" rather than "bat-shit crazy" as a result.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (e0xKF)

220 Dear Future Cyrotechs:

When you thaw my head and prepare to attach it to a Frankenbody, please take into consideration that I'd really like at least a normal-sized penis this time.

Thanks in advance.

jwpaine's freezer-burned head


Posted by: jwpaine (@PirateBallerina) at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (FUozQ)

221 184, Consigliere - Sicilian?

Posted by: Skookumchuk at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (0Db2g)

222 yes, fellow morons, you read that right.

Ace used the word 'metier' -- figuring that we all knew what it meant, except for Olaf, because ... fuck him.

we've come a long way from the days of 'cockholster'
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (RuUvx)

223 Art is subversive. Story at 11.

Hey, Olaf. Take a look in the mirror.

YOU are The Man.

Who has banned more shit in the US? Chuck Schumer or everybody else in the world?

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (T0NGe)

224 I, personally, really loved Batman Begins and Dark Knight (haven't seen DKR, yet). But someone not liking them doesn't mean they don't like the conservative message- it means they don't like them.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (5DR1j)

____________

Ya--but hell--they are the few.

I remember reading about their next project and I think it is the brother that I prefer but--

they are probably going to burst my--They are Conservative bubble--I think I'm purposely blanking it out but it might be a--


Che Special.

(Gha! Can't remember.)

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (r2PLg)

225 Face it, Jake, it's Television Town



I can remember when "Amos 'n Andy" was taken off the air because it was so full of stereotypes. I took them at their word that they'd extend the same criterion to other shows. I was pretty young and naive then.


As a check, I just binged to see if you can buy DVDs of it now. The good news is that you can so I guess the free market somehow overcame the false butthurt.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (UyQvx)

226 Part of the problem is that conservative actions, (being making the good and often painful choices in life). Are the exact things that most people are trying to escape through the fantasy that is entertainment. So it gives the left the upper hand in most entertainment. There are exceptions to this rule such as right winning over evil but to escape to a world where the tough choices don't exist is an easier story to sell.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 07, 2012 01:18 PM (tf9Ne)

227 I can only imagine how compelling a family drama with no drama, or a comedy without any subversive nature would be. Can't wait until someone thinks it'd sell a lot of soap and Toyotas puts it on TV.




So the only way to have drama is to have some sort of liberal who's being oppressed by a conservative?

Posted by: taylork at December 07, 2012 01:19 PM (ppNDn)

228 There's more to life than politics and 'caring about
this country'. And that's in fact a conservative view. If your world is
so narrow and constrained that there's place for enjoyment or pleasure,
you're doing it wrong and wasting a precious gift.


Posted by: Mætenloch at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (XkotV)

But the enemy "never sleeps".

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 01:19 PM (AWmfW)

229
re: culture

That is why I thought this piece from Whittle was so important.

I've climbed the corporate ladder in a very lucrative, international company, and know exactly how important PR and Marketing are. It is what makes a brand.

"The Power Danger of Iconography: The Resistance Steals Obama's Weapons" was interesting and hope you do too.

http://www.pjtv.com/s/HAZDG

If you aren't a member, go here:

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpgmpid=56

and scroll to the last one.


Again, as far as action, and this is tiny, why not try your hand at a GOP logo redesign contest? It sounds silly, but things like this are done more often in the art/design world than you think. Even, deep inside a corporate setting. It's the concept you want; the polishing and finessing come later.

Posted by: beach & a kindle at December 07, 2012 01:19 PM (LpQbZ)

230 Cryotechs. Fuck.

Posted by: jwpaine (@PirateBallerina) at December 07, 2012 01:19 PM (FUozQ)

231 Hollywood gets most of their box office take from overseas markets now

They might have to be a little more sensitive to the tastes of American audiences once Europe goes tits up and the Islamic nations ban foreign cinema

Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 01:19 PM (wwsoB)

232 Here's my Nolan thing.

First off, the right sort of writing for a movie is a novella or novelette, not a novel. A novel is too long to be a good movie, as written. A real novel (say 350-450 pages) will have to be fairly seriously condensed to make a 2:15 movie, and at that length it will also be a bit *abrupt.* It will not have the *feel* of the book -- it will feel rushed, bang-bang-bang.

See, e.g., the Fellowship of the Ring. Anyone who read that knows the *feel* of the book was a bit leisurely-- punctuated by bang-bang action, yet, but most of it was a leisurely stroll. A fun one.

The movie does not capture that feel at all. In order to bring it in at 2:30 and still get most of it in, it abandons the feel of the book for a very quick cut of the most important stuff in the book.

Anyway, Nolan is bewitched by novel-like thinking. His screenplays are basically condensed versions of Novels In His Head, which he must then savagely edit, bang-bang-bang no breathing time, to get them into the approximate time slot afforded a movie. Even then he can't bring these things in at 2:15. He still needs 2:45, and even at 2:45 it's a very rushed, close-to-the-bone edit.

He can't seem to grasp that the proper thing is to conceive of a simpler, less sprawling story in the first place -- more like a novella or even a long short story.

He talked up how The Dark Knight Rises references the French Revolution and A Tale of Two Cities. He means the sacking of the homes of the rich, in his film. It's meant to look like the sans-culottes mobs.

You know how long that takes in the movie? It's about a second and a half, three very brief half-second cuts in succession. This bank being looted, this home, this woman being dragged by a staircase.

This is what I mean. If you don't have the time to do this idea justice (and he doesn't-- he only has 2:20 at most), then cut it out and stop insisting you can just jam it in there with half-second cuts.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (LCRYB)

233 The water pump on my wife's mini-van is leaking coolant, and I have to replace it this weekend. I bet that water pump is a fucking democrat. Fuck!

Posted by: Chris M at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (b3vSq)

234
"...he has edit the thing so that there's hardly a moment to think about anything you're seeing, no quiet moments."

You need time for the camera to pan back, hold on the mime crying and frame the old woman pouring tomato sauce into the street. It's art.

Posted by: jwest at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (ZDsRL)

235 Bioshock is a tough franchise. b/c I love to play it, and am an Objectivist philosophically, and they make it harder and harder to play thru anti- their message with each new version.

Fuck I'll buy it anyway tho

GAMES - that's the place. They're really effing around culturally there... hmm

you know who made philosophically conservative games? Oddworld Inhabitants

they may not have realized it?

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (J6kXj)

236 How is it even possible to alter the course of Hollywood when their stranglehold is unbreakable, even when profits are on the line? Posted by: Jeff B. at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (TuW+p)
You can't alter the course of Hollywood, so go around Hollywood. Go the indy route. The Coen Bros. first film was 'Blood Simple', which cost approximately $5,000 to make (it's been a while ago, to be sure). They used credit cards, borrowed equipment, and actors working on spec to make it (and it payed off for them amazingly well: hello, Frances McDormand). Nowadays, advances in digital photography and audio equipment--to include once incredibly expensive audio editing packages--are now ridiculously inexpensive.

One of the things I do commerciallyis Flash-based animation. Animation is painstaking, time-consuming, meticulous work, but thanks to technological advances just about anyone can make a decent animated short for a modest amount of money. The problem is time. If I do make an animated short as a purely creative project, it will necessarily preempt just about everything else I'm doing, as well. But hey, a year or so from now, sure.

Posted by: troyriser at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (vtiE6)

237 Well, Leave it to Beaver was pretty conservative. So I guess you could construct a drama or comedy where the kids are always being slightly subversive, but come around to the parents' way of thinking in every episode.

Compelling. Someone get me my agent.

Posted by: Olaf at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (t1NLo)

238 We need conservative authors, script writers, and studios.

Most importantly, we need them not to declare themselves as such.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (uhAkr)

239 BRAVO, Ace, BRAVO!!! Of course, I like the post because I agree with it: we need a long march through the cultural institutions.

I've been thinking about "The Fountainhead" -- Ellsworth Toohey is who we're fighting right now. Toohey has a quote in the book about "you left us all the unimportant things, like movies and books and art" when Toohey finally defeats the newspaper tycoon (can't remember his name right now.)

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (DLUX7)

240 Here's the thing. For those out there who are creative -- artists, authors, musicians, actors -- one thing I think we have to get AWAY from is overtly trying to insert conservative messages into our works. That's not to say we should avoid them -- far from it. But it is far better to simply create a GOOD WORK rather than a GOOD CONSERVATIVE work. The fact is that if the story, art piece, song or script is internally consistent, and if you wrote it as you believe the world should be and not as a mirror universe, then the conservative message will come through without any sledgehammer manipulations of the text.

What I'm saying is let your conservatism inform your work, but don't make it the sole driving force. Rather than being a single, solid central pillar, conservatism -- or any political or ideological message -- works far better as a framework through which the story can flow unencumbered, but in which it's never far away from its conservative supports.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:22 PM (4df7R)

241 Gaming is the future of our culture, btw.

THAT'S where I'd like to see young conservatives try to get in. If you have the skills, they won't care if you voted Boooosh.

maybe get lots of tattoos if you don't have em

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:22 PM (J6kXj)

242 The rest of the world laughs and carries on.

Posted by: Olaf at December 07, 2012 01:11 PM

Then why are you here and why do you care that we're here?

You can pretend to laugh all you want, but anyone with a Facebook account knows that lefties are still angry and always will be as long as even one conservative still exists somewhere



Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 01:22 PM (wwsoB)

243 The Constitution say nothing about culture.

Join in the cultural ride and enjoy what you like, focus you politics on the Constitution. If you think that ship has sailed (maybe it has) discussion culture is just masturbation.

Posted by: Jack Wagon at December 07, 2012 01:22 PM (KUPae)

244 I, personally, really loved Batman Begins and Dark
Knight (haven't seen DKR, yet). But someone not liking them doesn't mean
they don't like the conservative message- it means they don't like
them.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:13 PM (5DR1j)


Exactly. I thought they articulated a conservative message in a very entertainingly effective way but by no means do I need for every person to share my enthusiasm.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 07, 2012 01:23 PM (UyQvx)

245 Since a couple people mentioned education I'll vent a little. I did over three plus decades in manufacturing, very successfully. I could teach people to operate intricate machinery and lift themselves from near poverty into a middle class lifestyle. But there came a time when I, and more importantly, my employees would have to compete against 1.2 billion Chinese. With all the factors flowing from Washington DC that inhibited my ability to compete and the Chinese having none of them, I cashed in my chips and headed for the classroom after a short hiatus.

It's difficult, if not impossible to be a conservative in the classroom. Difficult because there is a huge Venn diagram you have to face of three circles. Parents, children, and administration. To please all three simultaneously is pretty difficult, for me anyway. I hit two out of three, parents loved me, kids couldn't wait to hit my classroom every day. Attendance taking in the morning was a joke. Everyone showed up, even some that I wish hadn't as they hacked and coughed all over me.

I thought I could take my experience of success in industry into the classroom, but I forgot something. I didn't have any liberals on the same plane as me in industry. Enter the classroom and another teacher down the hall could be the biggest lib on the planet. Ready, willing, and able to pitch knives into your back. Every day, if necessary until the threat of my existence was abolished. Which they will do, to administration. Pack administration full of liberals and you have about zero chance of success, no matter if the parents and children love you.

So you're not gonna take back the schools by just being a teacher. I don't speak about it much, because it was about the greatest disappoint of my life. I did five years before I couldn't take another day -- which is about the average for a teacher, but like Dickens would say, it was both the absolute best and worst of times. You not only have to have conservatives in the classroom, you have to have them in the administration. Or failure is the only option.

Posted by: A regular moron at December 07, 2012 01:23 PM (feFL6)

246 This new culture of incest in entertainment has accelerated the downfall of this culture to warp speed. Modern society is sick beyond repair.

Posted by: Oedipus' Gristle Encased Head at December 07, 2012 01:23 PM (+lsX1)

247 One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my
head unfrozen and restored to life so that a future super mega computer
can explain to me the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no
longer in politics.







Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (LCRYB)

Because the venom was so concentrated from both sides.

Posted by: beach & a kindle at December 07, 2012 01:23 PM (LpQbZ)

248 ''I enjoy seeing Keira Knightley's tit-tays.''


In a solar system of boobehs where Christina Hendricks has gas giants, Keira Knightley has dust particles.




Posted by: Carl Sagan at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (FMbng)

249 Art is subversive. Story at 11.


Yes, we noticed how subversive "Piss Christ" was supposed to be. Funny how we never see a truly subversive piece of art like "Piss Muhammad," thought? Art is Renoir, Rembrandt, da Vinci, Mozart, Bax, Korngold. "Subversive art" is useless Keith Haring graffiti or Jeff Koons fapping into a fishtank - stuff white liberals love.


You guys won't ever get it. Your grampas were shouting about the evils of rock 'n' roll and hosing down negroes for standing up for themselves. You're already fossils, but can never see that it's true.


Bull Connor and Orval Faubus were Democrats. It was your grandpa setting dogs on the nigras while our grandfathers freed the slaves and passed the Civil Rights Act.

The rest of the world laughs and carries on.


Fools always laugh, right up until thechill kiss of Madame Guillotine.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (zF6Iw)

250 I think I get what you're talking about here; what I would term it is macro culture vs. micro culture.

Progressive types dominate in swaying the culture--the creative/entertainment/artistic-bigmedia complex--and we, the conservative classic liberal types don't,and we just fret about needing to produce a movie to get our political point across, etc. (micro attempts to bend culture).

I would agree. But I would add that values/culture are intertwined and cultural swaying can be and is done sans values or values consideration all the time. It's a self-perpetuating progression (forgive that word) toward what we would call degeneration of the culture.

I am always amazed at the influence a single film CAN have on people's opinions and their actions. It seems that whole segments of the population want to do as, dress like, talk like, imitate and emulate the 'hero' or antihero of the latest blockbuster. I've seen it again and again.


Posted by: Sphynx at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (j2McS)

251 If they believed that, they'd make more rousing military pictures along
the lines of Black Hawk Down and less anti-war hit pieces like Green
Zone and Lions For Lambs.



No they wouldn't: Most of their profits come from outside the U.S.

75% tax on gross overseas receipts should fix that, though.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (/kI1Q)

252 Most importantly, we need them not to declare themselves as such.

absolutely.

look, I'd love to be painting right now, and I still have enough goodwill and Libertarian cred to make a go of it.

but I needs moneys. what I do professionally is a lot of work, keeps me utterly busy, and requires me to be FT in-office to be a part of agile dev teams.

so . . . maybe when I can keep my head above water financially, what will that be, a decade from now?

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (J6kXj)

253 First off, the right sort of writing for a movie is a novella or novelette, not a novel. A novel is too long to be a good movie, as written. A real novel (say 350-450 pages) will have to be fairly seriously condensed to make a 2:15 movie, and at that length it will also be a bit *abrupt.* It will not have the *feel* of the book -- it will feel rushed, bang-bang-bang.

---

There's at least a few cases of this being proven true, IMHO.

Stephen King's Different Seasons was a four novella compilation. Three of those were adapted into films and two of them, Stand By Me and The Shawshank Redemption, were quite successful and are entrenched in popular culture.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (e0xKF)

254 I read the post.

The first part was better than the second two thirds.

I can't determine whether Ace likes 2.5 Men.

I believe math is the only way out of this mess.

Try visiting Aos Hq while blasting satellite electric jazz.

It might not be spiritual but it will get you regular.


Posted by: ontherocks at December 07, 2012 01:26 PM (aZ6ew)

255 218 toby928

It's a heck of a lot easier to roll the boulder of civilization down the hill than to push it up.


I haven't read all of the comments, but that sounds like a thread winner.

Posted by: rickl at December 07, 2012 01:26 PM (zoehZ)

256 No they wouldn't: Most of their profits come from outside the U.S.75% tax on gross overseas receipts should fix that, though.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (/kI1Q)


DING DING DING DING!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:26 PM (4df7R)

257 75% tax on gross overseas receipts should fix that, though.


Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (/kI1Q)

Nah, treat them the way Democrats want to treat the oil companies. NO LOOPHOLES
75% tax on the gross overseas.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 01:26 PM (YdQQY)

258 Racist, homophobic or both. That's what you right wingers are and that ends the argument.

Posted by: Toure - honest, objective and always right of course at December 07, 2012 01:27 PM (4eNxd)

259 232 Here's my Nolan thing.

First off, the right sort of writing for a movie is a novella or novelette, not a novel. A novel is too long to be a good movie, as written. A real novel (say 350-450 pages) will have to be fairly seriously condensed to make a 2:15 movie, and at that length it will also be a bit *abrupt.* It will not have the *feel* of the book -- it will feel rushed, bang-bang-bang.

See, e.g., the Fellowship of the Ring. Anyone who read that knows the *feel* of the book was a bit leisurely-- punctuated by bang-bang action, yet, but most of it was a leisurely stroll. A fun one.

The movie does not capture that feel at all. In order to bring it in at 2:30 and still get most of it in, it abandons the feel of the book for a very quick cut of the most important stuff in the book.

Anyway, Nolan is bewitched by novel-like thinking. His screenplays are basically condensed versions of Novels In His Head, which he must then savagely edit, bang-bang-bang no breathing time, to get them into the approximate time slot afforded a movie. Even then he can't bring these things in at 2:15. He still needs 2:45, and even at 2:45 it's a very rushed, close-to-the-bone edit.

He can't seem to grasp that the proper thing is to conceive of a simpler, less sprawling story in the first place -- more like a novella or even a long short story.

He talked up how The Dark Knight Rises references the French Revolution and A Tale of Two Cities. He means the sacking of the homes of the rich, in his film. It's meant to look like the sans-culottes mobs.

You know how long that takes in the movie? It's about a second and a half, three very brief half-second cuts in succession. This bank being looted, this home, this woman being dragged by a staircase.

This is what I mean. If you don't have the time to do this idea justice (and he doesn't-- he only has 2:20 at most), then cut it out and stop insisting you can just jam it in there with half-second cuts.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:21 PM (LCRYB)

_______________________

Well I am wondering if Nolan wasn't messing with Batman and--

if you didn't know all that back story would it bother you?

Did you feel the same way about--

Inception?

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:27 PM (r2PLg)

260 But the enemy "never sleeps".

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 01:19 PM (AWmfW)


I assure you that individual enemies do sleep. So can you.

If there's no place for joy or fun in your life, I suggest that that's a problem internally within you and that you are just using politics as an excuse for it.

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 07, 2012 01:28 PM (XkotV)

261 Fools always laugh, right up until thechill kiss of Madame Guillotine.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (zF6Iw)


You know what's funny? The first time I read this comment I misread "fools" and "food." And you know what else? It STILL WORKS. The troll is just a lily-livered sheep. Mmm, mutton.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:28 PM (4df7R)

262 people knock Michael Bay's hyperactive MTV editing style but they don't seem to notice that Nolan is doing the same thing, particularly with story and plot elements. He has too much of both, so he has to give you the Bay Edit.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:28 PM (LCRYB)

263 I'm pretty sure that all this is irrelevant. We have been too rich for too long. To large groups, reality has become fuzzy and malleable.

Only the burned hand will teach now.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 07, 2012 01:28 PM (QupBk)

264 Why isn't Boehner parading 'middle class families' around and letting them explain how Obama's policies are hurting them? That's what Obama does because it works.
Posted by: soothsayer

I agree. The rats are always in campaign mode. We are dumb. Like we don't have enough material? My God - if I ruled the world I would have PSA's on constantly about what is happening to our country.

Posted by: Cheri at December 07, 2012 01:28 PM (G+Wff)

265 There's a different aesthetic at work too. I was struck by what Spielberg said about his Lincoln movie. He was explaining that, in this era, the Republicans were "for the blacks".

Actually, that's not true. Republicans were against slavery. We don't think tribally.

Democrats and liberals do think tribally. It can be traced to Marx if you want to get academic about it but it's in the human soul to think that way.

Conservatives are about our better selves, so we gravitate toward ideas and regard human nature as undesirable and something to be overcome.

We look at ourselves and say "What an awful person who needs personal improvement." They look at themselves and say "What a terrific person who is making a difference in the world."

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:29 PM (T0NGe)

266 Nowadays, advances in digital photography and audio equipment--to include once incredibly expensive audio editing packages--are now ridiculously inexpensive.


Skyline was made for about $10 million with the effects being done pretty much by two guys in their living room. There are many, many, many problems with Skyline but the effects look like it's a Bay or Emmerich production.

Monsters was made for under a million and while it's not wall to wall effects, there are still a fairly decent number of both practical and digital effects. The cost of entry is plummeting fast.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 07, 2012 01:29 PM (VtjlW)

267 >>>What I'm saying is let your conservatism inform your work, but don't make it the sole driving force. Rather than being a single, solid central pillar, conservatism -- or any political or ideological message -- works far better as a framework through which the story can flow unencumbered, but in which it's never far away from its conservative supports.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:22 PM (4df7R)

I wholeheartedly agree. Lord knows I avoid any film that bashes me over the head with lefty propaganda. I would expect people to do the same with conservative propaganda.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 07, 2012 01:29 PM (e/Cti)

268 Leave it to Beaver...


Best line on TV evah:
June: Ward, don't you think you were a little hars on the beaver last night? (DYSWIDT?)

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 07, 2012 01:29 PM (GFM2b)

269 This is what I mean. If you don't have the time to do this idea justice (and he doesn't-- he only has 2:20 at most), then cut it out and stop insisting you can just jam it in there with half-second cuts.
Posted by: ace



Same goes for character arc. Simple is easier to pull off; but that is why Avatar had such simple stupid themes: Marines kill and steal from natives, wheelchair guy walks and becomes one with mother.

Posted by: Daybrother hoping for SMOD at December 07, 2012 01:29 PM (+paCV)

270 So you're not gonna take back the schools by just being a teacher. I
don't speak about it much, because it was about the greatest disappoint
of my life. I did five years before I couldn't take another day -- which
is about the average for a teacher, but like Dickens would say, it was
both the absolute best and worst of times. You not only have to have
conservatives in the classroom, you have to have them in the
administration. Or failure is the only option.


This is true. Taking back Education requires three things simultaneously.

Conservatives on School Boards (both local and State)
Conservatives in Administration
Conservatives in the classrooms.

The first and the third are actually relatively easy. But Administrators are normally people who have been teachers and went on to get their Masters or even Doctoral degrees in Education. But it can be done, too.

My brother (the more liberal of the two, unfortunately) went into teaching Secondary (that is: 7th grade +) math. I think he taught for 3, but it may have been 4 years as a fully certified teacher (plus 2 before that through his alternative certification program). Before the 2nd was up, he was already pursuing his master's degree. He is now the head of Math Curriculum for a school district.

So it can happen that fast- but you have to plan for it from the beginning of your teaching career. And you have to be ready for the long-knives.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:29 PM (5DR1j)

271 This may be against the spirit of Ace's post - maybe I'm reading politics into something I shouldn't - but I'm going to ask if anyone else saw what I consider a great stealth conservative movie, made and acted by liberals: "The Last Supper."

It's about a house full of pissed-off liberal grad students in Iowa who think the Right dominates everything, think liberals lose because they're too nice, and dreams about taking more dramatic action.

Then a stranger stops by and (more or less in self-defense) they end up killing him.

After some agonized self-reflection, they start inviting their demon figures to dinner, giving them the chance to renounce their evil right-wing views and, if they don't, killing them.

Things conservatives might not like:

- The Marine. It would have been more effective if he were a good guy/fanatical Marine, rather than a truly bad guy.

- The thinly fictionalized Rush Limbaugh. He makes it clear that he doesn't really believe what he's saying, he just goes over the top for entertainment value.

Things I love about it:

- This is a wonderful allegory on how leftist idealism can turn murderous, and all the while flatter itself that it holds the moral high ground.

- Cameron Diaz before she was really famous.

Posted by: JPS at December 07, 2012 01:30 PM (M8qmw)

272 75% tax on gross overseas receipts should fix that, though.




Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (/kI1Q)

Nah, treat them the way Democrats want to treat the oil companies. NO LOOPHOLES
75% tax on the gross overseas.


Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 01:26 PM (YdQQY)


I like the way you two think.
Of course, you know that a lot of "Hollywood" is filmed and produced overseas. Even Psych, which is supposed to take place in sunny Santa Barbara, is filmed in Vancouver.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:30 PM (T0NGe)

273 So I'm confused Ace. What's the name of this movie? And did you like it?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 07, 2012 01:31 PM (da5Wo)

274 213 >> Did you watch a bunch of films with a lot of girl-girl action in it, like Gia or Wild Things?

Brandon, nope, I don't go for the chicksploitation flicks neither. I don't mind me some TnA, but that can't be the central theme.

A further thought on Hollywood's control -- It's the Awards that helps keep the power in their hands. Academy Award Winnah sells Dvds and eyeballs. Brokeback Mountain gets awards; The Terminator gets squat.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2012 01:31 PM (ccXZP)

275 lol@K-Lo praising Deuce Bigalow, missed it I guess (though really she's not one of the, let's say, brightest bulbs at NRO)

actually i think select conservative media occasionally tries too much to read into certain films alleged underlying conservative messages. "Dark Knight" and the last one for example, i get it, and the last one in particular is def. political with the mobs etc., but when i read certain writers trying to turn Nolan into Mr. Supercapitalist i had to roll my eyes

Posted by: JDP at December 07, 2012 01:32 PM (60GaT)

276 So with 6 novels in manuscript and two books of essays and three non-fiction books, I would certainly say I've been trying.

But regardless of whether there is any merit in my stuff, try waling into a Barnes & Noble and looking at the books that are featured.

They own the means of production. What's a poor girl to do?

Posted by: Cricket at December 07, 2012 01:32 PM (DrC22)

277 Used my Dominos coupon for a free pizza today. Free lunch eaten, economy stimulated, unemployment already down. Your welcome.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at December 07, 2012 01:32 PM (epxV4)

278 Mmm, mutton.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:28 PM (4df7R)



Baby lambs!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 07, 2012 01:32 PM (VtjlW)

279 263
I'm pretty sure that all this is irrelevant. We have been too rich for
too long. To large groups, reality has become fuzzy and malleable.



Only the burned hand will teach now.



I tend to agree with your sentiment. And with TehOneBeWanKenobi as president I'm afraid we may experience the inferno soon enough. Once the economic crisis reaches uncontrollable status, TehOne will bankrupt us trying to provide relief. "Depression II, The Big One," coming soon to a theater near you.

Posted by: Sphynx at December 07, 2012 01:32 PM (j2McS)

280 273 So I'm confused Ace. What's the name of this movie? And did you like it?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 07, 2012 01:31 PM (da5Wo)


I think it's been released in theaters as 'Life' and he seems to have given it a moderate thumbs up. :-)

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 07, 2012 01:32 PM (XkotV)

281 If there's no place for joy or fun in your life, I suggest that that's a problem internally within you and that you are just using politics as an excuse for it.
Posted by: Mætenloch at December 07, 2012 01:28 PM (XkotV)


Agreed, Maetenloch. It's the Leftist regressives who allow politics to influence and affect every single moment of their day. That's why they're always so miserable. If nothing else, we have to take the time to appreciate the world around us to remind us WHY we fight this fight.

Do you think a regressive can look at a gorgeous mountain vista and just appreciate it for what it is? Of course not. A regressive looks at a panorama like that and thinks, "I have to pay my Sierra Club dues. Did that bill for preservation of those thousand acres behind the school pass? Is that a logging operation over there? I wonder if there are any endangered eagles or owls nearby."

Don't be like them. You'll live longer and happier.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:33 PM (4df7R)

282 And did you like it?

The consensus is that it insisted upon itself.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at December 07, 2012 01:33 PM (QupBk)

283 Great piece.

Gramscian, not Gramsciite.

Posted by: Knemon at December 07, 2012 01:33 PM (u1+3w)

284


But another thing...
It is hard to also overcome the leeches that are our marvelous critics...they sniff out any conservatism and act as a wall to keep it out.
And then that builds on those stupid morning shows, and so on.
It's one thing to be counterculture, its another to breach those poofters like Rex Reed.
Perhaps given time, it could be done. They've just gotten to be so loud.

Posted by: Rev. Dr. Buzz Miller The Shit at December 07, 2012 01:33 PM (ApGOC)

285 Things I love about it:

- This is a wonderful allegory on how leftist idealism can turn murderous, and all the while flatter itself that it holds the moral high ground.

- Cameron Diaz before she was really famous.
Posted by: JPS at December 07, 2012 01:30 PM (M8qmw)

_________________

No but that sounds really interesting.


Also people think they can separate politics from everything else but politics is simply the art of persuasion.

Gossip at your office--that's politics--you really can't escape it.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:33 PM (r2PLg)

286 I. Am. Tanned. Rested. Ready.

Posted by: Madame Guillotine at December 07, 2012 01:34 PM (xaPEC)

287 Baby lambs!

LOL!!!

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 01:34 PM (GQ8sn)

288 >>>but I'm going to ask if anyone else saw what I consider a great stealth conservative movie, made and acted by liberals: "The Last Supper."

Yeah I like that movie. Two things: There's a great song called "If I Fall" in there (by a woman who actually began as Christian singer-songwriter... and also plays the Silent But Deadly Blonde in Die Hard With a Vengeance) and the guy who plays the artistic liberal type with the girlfriend is Jonathan Penner, who was just on this season of Survivor (and has been on survivor twice before).

Awesome song, by the way. Worth a download.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:34 PM (LCRYB)

289 The first and the third are actually relatively easy. But Administrators
are normally people who have been teachers and went on to get their
Masters or even Doctoral degrees in Education. But it can be done, too.


I have a Ph.D. in math and they wouldn't let me in the door at a public school. Unions.

It's actually pretty hard to get a real doctorate (as opposed to an Ed.D.) as a full-time teacher and they won't hire you with one. Because the pay scale is too high. Unions.

I'd love to be superintendent of a school. "If it's not math, it's crap."

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:34 PM (T0NGe)

290 :::Allen, are you familiar with the musician Charlie Peacock? He has been pushing for excellence in Christian music for a long time now, and has founded a studio to do just that, I believe. He is also one of the few Christian artists to write stuff other than quasi-worship songs, I think:::

I remember when Amy Grant made a secular album back in the 80s.

She was a WHORE SELLOUT according to the fine folks at the cult compound my parents attended. Not only did they not buy her new album, they threw away her old ones. Take that, harlot!

Sounds like alexthechick had the same upbringing I did. And if she was a member of the same compound, I would have invited her over to go swimming so I could accidentally feel her titty underwater.

No offense. But that was about as lucky as a boy in that lifestyle was ever going to get. And it would have provided 18 months of fap fuel.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 07, 2012 01:34 PM (MmK+i)

291 "what I consider a great stealth conservative movie, made and acted by liberals"

Ron Perlman ftw.

Posted by: Knemon at December 07, 2012 01:35 PM (u1+3w)

292 Thanks Ace. I always appreciate your posts on this topic. I work in the entertainment industry and want to create good scripts and performances and films without preaching to any choir. Lots of popular entertainment (and less-popular entertainment) has, or at least used to have, what we might call "conservative values:" fight hard, chase (but respect) women, keep your sense of humor and believe in something bigger than yourself, etc. You can find those qualities in Shakespeare, classic Hollywood movies and even old Bruce Springsteen songs. Like you say, audiences get affected by it when they don't feel beaten over the head with it.

Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 01:35 PM (IShFQ)

293 Baby lambs!
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 07, 2012 01:32 PM (VtjlW)


lol! Well remembered!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:36 PM (4df7R)

294 Ace , back to Palin. Liberals saw instantly the cultural symbol value of her and that filled them with hate, that's why they kept and keep on targeting her and her family even after she "left politics".


Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 07, 2012 01:36 PM (AWmfW)

295 285
Things I love about it:



- This is a wonderful allegory on how leftist idealism can turn
murderous, and all the while flatter itself that it holds the moral high
ground.



- Cameron Diaz before she was really famous.

Posted by: JPS at December 07, 2012 01:30 PM (M8qmw)


I remember a part of this movie. They invite a young girl and are slowing leading her down the road to her death. I think the wine is poisoned, but she refuses to drink alcohol. They try and force her and this is where some of the libs at the dinner table start to fracture and start questioning what it is they're doing.

What happens after that?

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 01:36 PM (GQ8sn)

296 if you're not ANGRY(!!!!!!!!!!!!) all the time, you're not paying attention

ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Purity Squad at December 07, 2012 01:36 PM (iEoiA)

297 when i read certain writers trying to turn Nolan into Mr. Supercapitalist i had to roll my eyes

I love how George Lucas thinks he's Mr. Anticapitalist.

There is no one who is crasser about money than George Lucas. No one.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:36 PM (T0NGe)

298 and the guy who plays the artistic liberal type with the girlfriend is Jonathan Penner, who was just on this season of Survivor (and has been on survivor twice before).


___________________

Oh holy crap--is that who Penner is.

Wow--I knew there was something about that guy--although he screwed himself in the end.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:36 PM (r2PLg)

299 I enjoy reading.
I hate being read to. And ten dollar popcorn. And fast moving pictures that give me a headache or put me to sleep.

Hollywood? Let it burn.

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at December 07, 2012 01:37 PM (EZl54)

300 Of course, you know that a lot of "Hollywood" is filmed and produced
overseas. Even Psych, which is supposed to take place in sunny Santa
Barbara, is filmed in Vancouver.


Yeah, their coats and rainforests crack me up every episode.

My understanding is except for projects that require specific geologic or topographical features, they choose to film overseas because it's cheaper. Hence the tax on the gross, not the net.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:37 PM (/kI1Q)

301 sorry it's "When I Fall," not if I fall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZMm8Mh0Mzc

sam phillips.

hot chick with guitar.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:38 PM (LCRYB)

302 I understand what you're saying about doing rather than watching.

I recently started doing some MMA training, not because I want to be a fighter, but becasuse I want to DO rather than just watch.

My friends look at me like I have two heads. A middle aged guy rolling around and sparring with a bunch of young tattooed fighters? What's the matter with you?

Nothing. I want to live. I want to broaden my horizons. I want new challenges. What does my age have to do with it? I'm in good health and in good shape.

Plus, I'm a fan of the sport. But just watching is a limiting experience. If you train as they do, then you can appreciate what you're watching on TV a lot more.

The same thing happened to me with poker around 2003 or so. I was watching all these tournaments and thought, "Why not learn the game and enter some tournaments myself?" And so that's what I did. Eventually I turned into a pretty good online player. Doing rather than simply watching brought me a lot of joy. It also put a few dollars in my pocket.

My political ideology is not WHO I am. Neither is my job or even my role as husband and father.

I can't be defined just by those things. Work is rarely rewarding. Politics just makes me angry these days. Being a dad is great, but it's not the be-all-end-all.

I don't want my personal growth to stop just because I have kids to raise. They're my first priority, but I'm not done living yet. And I'm sure not going to let some cocksmoker in the White House make me miserable all day. At the end of the day, I control my happiness, not a bunch of asshole politicians.

/ramble



Posted by: Warden at December 07, 2012 01:38 PM (0DlnM)

303 I remember when Amy Grant made a secular album back in the 80s.



She was a WHORE SELLOUT according to the fine folks at the cult
compound my parents attended. Not only did they not buy her new album,
they threw away her old ones. Take that, harlot!


This happened to Gospel singers as well.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 07, 2012 01:38 PM (T0NGe)

304 --although he screwed himself in the end.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:36 PM (r2PLg)

-----
I'm vewy impwessed!!!

Posted by: Barney Frank at December 07, 2012 01:38 PM (nELVU)

305 "What happens after that?"

Spoiler alert:

Ron Perlman pulls some Fezzini shit on them.

Posted by: Knemon at December 07, 2012 01:38 PM (u1+3w)

306 Yes. A great epistle.
I will be getting my cracked pots out your yard now.

I will use them to shield the fire for new pots from an extremist heavily armed redoubt.

Posted by: Mountains,Landbarons and Serfs at December 07, 2012 01:38 PM (frxVF)

307 >>>Wow--I knew there was something about that guy--although he screwed himself in the end.

guy's a natural conman. Got a good rap. He almost hypnotized Lisa.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:39 PM (LCRYB)

308 ooh I love Sam Phillips! thanks for the tip!

Survivor, btw . . . kind of conservative in ethos, no?

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:40 PM (J6kXj)

309 I think the social issue button that the Hollywood Left pushes over and over again is intentional, but as a distraction.

Liberty allows culture to move however the public (individuals acting independently..... it IS a market after all) wants it.

If we had prevented the Republicans from embracing the unconstitutional, as we should have, we wouldn't be ringing our hands about sitcoms.

Posted by: Jack Wagon at December 07, 2012 01:40 PM (KUPae)

310 guy's a natural conman. Got a good rap. He almost hypnotized Lisa.
Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:39 PM (LCRYB)

________________

Right. I didn't mean that I knew that movie--just there is something about him.

Posted by: tasker at December 07, 2012 01:40 PM (r2PLg)

311 Sounds like alexthechick had the same upbringing I did. And if she was a
member of the same compound, I would have invited her over to go
swimming so I could accidentally feel her titty underwater.


Too much work. Go to a movie and pull a 'Greg Brady' move on her, except you'll be mistaking her elbow for a breast.

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 01:40 PM (GQ8sn)

312 75% tax on gross overseas receipts should fix that, though.


Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:24 PM (/kI1Q)



That doesn't seem very "fair" to me. Make it 95%. For the children

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2012 01:40 PM (1Jaio)

313 Hollywood's downfall will most likely come from their own leftist beliefs

It's an industry that consumes huge amounts of electricity. While the producers will most likely get tax writeoffs for energy costs related to production, the theaters will not get that same reacharound. No one will sit in a concrete cubicle for 3 hours with insufficient heat or air conditioning. Ticket costs would have to be raised to cover the electricity costs that "necessarily skyrocket"

Health nazis will certainly put punitive taxes on the junk food sold in the concession stands which are the actual money makers for theaters. Take that margin away and they're shit outta luck




Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 01:40 PM (wwsoB)

314 "One day, a thousand years from now, I would like my head unfrozen and
restored to life so that a future super mega computer can explain to me
the *obsession* with one particular woman who is no longer in politics."


Really? I'll save you the wait. She spoke to and for a lot of Americans. These same cultural gatekeepers of who you write killed her politically and culturally. Republicans helped. That's why.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 07, 2012 01:41 PM (6H6FZ)

315 If you want to make a conservative story, you have to make it about what conservatism means on the personal level. Basic things like: There is no such thing as a free lunch. A bureaucrat has no reason to be nice to you. The greatest virtue is personal sacrifice. There are consequences to bad actions.

Also, making the villain a politician -- even a conservative one -- reinforces the idea that politicians are much more dangerous than people in the private sector. Heroes can be small business owners. Professors are pompous and don't really know anything, etc. The best one for a procedural is the liberal hypocrite, the environmentalist who's actually in it for the money.

But don't try an actual conservative story. It doesn't work. Neither does a liberal story, but the advantage that the liberals have is that they have the hammer, so they just keep it up with the schlock.

_________________________________

^^THIS!!!^^

Posted by: OCD Con at December 07, 2012 01:41 PM (+Gft4)

316 you can't teach in PA unless you go to a State Teacher College and there is no way anyone with half a brain would make it thru one of those

I think the final exam is a partial lobotomy

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:41 PM (J6kXj)

317 New report: 57% of households headed by Mexican immigrants are on welfare. 50% of the immigrants from Mexico/Central America are illegal.

http://bit.ly/VsF9Q1

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 01:41 PM (piMMO)

318
"guy's a natural conman. Got a good rap. He almost hypnotized Lisa."
Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 01:39 PM (LCRYB) Absolutely. If the cameras weren't there, he could have easily gotten a blow job.

Posted by: jwest at December 07, 2012 01:42 PM (ZDsRL)

319
316 you can't teach in PA unless you go to a State Teacher College and there is no way anyone with half a brain would make it thru one of those

I think the final exam is a partial lobotomy

---

Moron Code - "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!"

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:42 PM (e0xKF)

320 It's actually pretty hard to get a real doctorate (as opposed to an
Ed.D.) as a full-time teacher and they won't hire you with one. Because
the pay scale is too high. Unions.


Yep, that's true. Unless you're in a fairly conservative state, and want to teach High School. Then, if you've got a Math or Science Degree, they'd love to have you.

Of course, you'd be stuck teaching the remedial kids for the first few years.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:43 PM (5DR1j)

321 That doesn't seem very "fair" to me. Make it 95%. For the children

Fair enough.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:43 PM (/kI1Q)

322 wow look at me completely unshocked by those illegale numbers

the only thing wrong in that article is that there are a hell of a lot more than 11 mil of them!

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:44 PM (J6kXj)

323 She was a WHORE SELLOUT according to the fine folks at the cult
compound my parents attended. Not only did they not buy her new album,
they threw away her old ones. Take that, harlot!


****

then they must have loved the Vince Gill relationship.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 01:44 PM (piMMO)

324
I remember when Amy Grant made a secular album back in the 80s.

I don't think Charlie Peacock would divide his life up into "secular" and "religious" spheres.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 07, 2012 01:44 PM (eA3m/)

325 OT but I can't believe that Yahoo ran this story:


By Peter Morici
The economy added 146,000 jobs in November, up a bit from 138,000 in
October. 
Unemployment fell to 7.7 percent, largely because 542,000
additional adults chose not to look for work.


In the weakest recovery since the Great Depression, most of the
reduction in unemployment from its 10.0 percent peak in October 2009 has
been accomplished through a significant drop in the percentage of
adults working or looking for work. Were adult labor-force participation
the same today, the unemployment rate would be 9.7 percent.

Adding more than 8 million part-time workers who can't find full-time
work, the unemployment rate becomes 14.4 percent. It rose above 14
percent in the wake of the financial crisis and remains stuck there.

Convincing millions of Americans they don't want a job or compelling
desperate workers to settle for part-time work has been the Obama
Administration's most effective jobs program.




The truth posted at Yahoo. The end must be near

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2012 01:44 PM (1Jaio)

326 Kind of like how every show has to have a gay character or couple.



Come on Mr. Moo Moo, tell me how I'm a homophobe even though I said nothing about gay people in general.

Posted by: Adam at December 07, 2012 01:44 PM (/YJYi)

327 322 wow look at me completely unshocked by those illegale numbers

the only thing wrong in that article is that there are a hell of a lot more than 11 mil of them!

---

For every one you see, there are probably 10 you don't see.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:45 PM (e0xKF)

328 In other words Pat Buchanan was right.
Posted by: General Woundwort at December 07, 2012 12:52 PM (RrD4h)


So was Robert Bork. Slouching Towards Gomorrah.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 07, 2012 01:45 PM (zF6Iw)

329 After that Rubio interview with GQ where he talks about rap music and Tupac and Pitbull, Michelle Malkin was all over him on Twitter for "pandering" to try and look hip (not really pandering if you actually like the music...to each his own) and that he was basically promoting garbage and then went on to talk about how he should be promoting "cool" cultural items like school choice and working hard which are A). Hardly cultural itemsand B). Would mean he's just pandering to what she wants to hear him say.

Posted by: Uncle Milty at December 07, 2012 01:45 PM (YsFN3)

330 Survivor, btw . . . kind of conservative in ethos, no? [ /i]

If you're talking about the 'reality show' not really. They give them rice. Not much, but enough to survive. Women, with slightly lessened nutritional needs survive fine. They 'gang up' and vote off the men, because they have the ability to survive on limited nutrition. They don't keep the men who catch fish, or snails, or climb trees to bring them coconuts.

If you can't see how that 'skews' the game, or is a reflection on contemporary society, then...

Posted by: A regular moron at December 07, 2012 01:45 PM (feFL6)

331 re: "people knock Michael Bay's hyperactive MTV editing style but they don't seem to notice that Nolan is doing the same thing, particularly with story and plot elements."

I'm used to watching stare-at-this-guy's-face-while-he-thinks-about-what-just-happened snob movies, so I noticed. But instead of thinking of the problem as "he's compressed something that should be longer," I thought It shouldn't be like this at all.

There's nothing about Nolan's movies that's any good. They're shot-by-shot unconsidered and cheap-looking, they're assembled like commercials for nothing, the writing is line-by-line dumb-as-fuck, the big-picture "arc" and shit just aren't there...

I quite literally don't understand why anybody but kids--literal action-figure-fight-on-the-floor-in-front-of-the-TV-while-the-movie's-on kids--likes them.

Except Memento. That was a decent '90s-indie-style novelty film. It should have got him a job directing horror sequels.

His universal acclaim is my "the world has passed me by" thing. And it passed me in a rusted out '92 Taurus with a POBODY'S NERFECT sticker on it.

Posted by: oblig. at December 07, 2012 01:45 PM (cePv8)

332 I like how the idiot says its only a small fraction of the media doing this when every single show with few exceptions has at least one thinly veiled (if at all) insult to conservatives and christians PER EPISODE. I also note the irony of how he continually rags on republicans for "populist fantasies" in an article about liberal bias.

Posted by: Ben(the original) at December 07, 2012 01:45 PM (c2ddD)

333 off italics, damn

Posted by: A regular moron at December 07, 2012 01:46 PM (feFL6)

334
Proposal: Create a venture capital organization that finances film makers so they can make their film.

A committee of experienced right of center Hollywood types within our organization OK's the grant requests.

Anyone may apply, final script required to enter. Don't judge scripts on the basis of politics but make it clear that pro-capitalism, pro-liberty, pro-america, pro-common sense maybe traditional value oriented fare is preferred.

Fund the venture capital firm with tiny contributions from 50 million convservative/libertarian citizens.

Posted by: Sphynx at December 07, 2012 01:46 PM (j2McS)

335 For every one you see, there are probably 10 you don't see.

****

the same goes with feral cats and cockroaches

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (piMMO)

336 when every single show with few exceptions has at least one thinly veiled (if at all) insult to conservatives and christians PER EPISODE

not the shows I watch

My Little Pony and Adventure Time and Archer

safe zones!

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (J6kXj)

337 There's a band called Glass Hammer out of Tennessee that has some great Christian lyrics, although they are not a "Christian band" per se. Their lead singer, Jon Davison, is also the current lead singer of UK Prog legends YES.

If you are into Prog rock and/or YES and you'd like to listen to a non-Leftist band for a change, check them out.

Posted by: BlueStateRepub at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (7ObY1)

338 Is it me? Or would it only take a small push to get AtC into a RANT?




*grins evilly*

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (da5Wo)

339 Survivor, btw . . . kind of conservative in ethos, no?
Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 07, 2012 01:40 PM (J6kXj)


I don't know. I really think it's more regressive. Conservatives believe in individual responsibility, yes, but not to the exclusion of all others. We expect those in our group to do what they can to help the group stay safe, or fed, or housed, what have you, and we likewise expect that our efforts in that direction will be appreciated and rightfully compensated. If I grow a great crop of corn, I'd expect my neighbors to trade me items or services of similar value for a portion of the crop. It's the basis of a civil society.

What Survivor does, though, is create these little "tribes" that are supposed to be held together by loose alliances. But in the background everyone is constantly stabbing each other in the back; either forming alliances with other members of the tribe or with members of the OTHER tribe. You can't trust anyone, and it becomes "every man for himself." There's no harmony, everyone is a potential enemy, and the whole purpose isn't survival but material gain.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (4df7R)

340 Obama is safely re-elected now.

The truth posted at Yahoo. The end must be near



Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2012 01:44 PM (1Jaio)

Posted by: Pyrocles at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (cv5Iw)

341 "Archer



safe zones!"

Archer did this a few times -- using the Jessica Walter character as a sort of female Mr. Burns.

Posted by: Knemon at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (u1+3w)

342 Try Books and Culture (booksandculture.com) for reviews of books, movies, and other cultural expressions from a culturally conservative point of view. They even have articles about advances in science, written quietly by believing scientists in academia.

B&C is owned by Christianity Today, which is kind of a touchstone publication for evangelicals.

Is it a funny movie? Does it achieve it's goals? Does it entertain? Does it provoke? These are the proper grounds for review of a film or book

B&C does this quite well, in my experience.

Posted by: crisis du jour at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (DFGPG)

343
Effect change? Don't start with the adults--target the children. Prime example--the current young generation.

Herr Morgenholz gets it nicely. Our own long march through the institutions.

And that begins at the most basic level, where you actually CAN make a difference. Never mind the grownups.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 07, 2012 01:48 PM (SAMxH)

344 I can't believe that Yahoo ran this story

Prepping the battlespace for some new tyranny. "Things are really bad. Something Must Be Done. Too Important To Leave To Congress--Obama Must Act."

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at December 07, 2012 01:48 PM (/kI1Q)

345 This happened to Gospel singers as well.

Very recently, it happened to Evanescence as well. They were originally released both on a mainstream label and a Christian one. Then, the lead singer said something bad (that is to say, used the word "Hell" or "Damn" or some such) on MTV one day.

The next day, the Christian label drops them (and any hope of guiding their music) and their music was purged from Christian stations (where it had been carried). I was told that this was a "good, principled" stand for the Christian label to take.

I was thinking, "What? Are they stupid? Do they think young people don't curse?"

Let me be very clear here- what they said on MTV would have gotten them patted on the head and told to try harder, if they'd been posting it in a comment here. It was ridiculously inoffensive- except it contained One Of The Proscribed Words.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:49 PM (5DR1j)

346 Where is the Heritage of TV and movie funding?

12 Monkeys was the best anti-econazi movie every made.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 07, 2012 01:49 PM (R+6Q+)

347 Sounds like alexthechick had the same upbringing I did. And if she was a member of the same compound, I would have invited her over to go swimming so I could accidentally feel her titty underwater.


You were allowed to engage in mixed bathing? You HEATHEN!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 07, 2012 01:49 PM (VtjlW)

348 Let me just comment on one little confusion that's coming though in the comments.

"Conservative" art, music, literature do not have to be the same thing as what is referred to as "Christian" art, music literature. The latter is almost always didactic; the former--not so much.

Milton, for example, created "Christian" art in Paradise Lost," but Chaucer, Shakespeare and Austen are all very much Christian, conservative artists. They had a Christian worldview, which is seen in their work like the background in portrait painting. It doesn't insist on itself, but without it the painting does not make sense.

What we are seeing today is a background of nihilism. There is no God, there is no absolute right or wrong, all Western civilization before 1969 was racist and sexist, etc. This background has been around in serious culture since the 1850's, but it only found its way to the pop side in the last forty years.

Can it be changed, the cultural given? Of course; Modernism was a change from Romanticism. But the change has to take place at the meta level, and right now I don't see that happening.

Posted by: Cricket at December 07, 2012 01:50 PM (DrC22)

349 Memento was terrific. The 1st Batman movie Nolan directed literally gave me a headache. I hated the way those fight scenes were cut. I couldn't follow the action at all.

Someone argued to me that it was supposed to feel that way because real fights are disorienting. Meh. Maybe that's what he was going for, but still not my thing.

Posted by: Warden at December 07, 2012 01:51 PM (0DlnM)

350 one particular woman who is no longer in politics.


Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:39 PM (LCRYB)

Wasn't that kind of the whole point of your post? For conservatives to advance/influence culture in non-political ways?

Wouldn't the Palin reality show kind of, you know, fall into that category?

Posted by: KG at December 07, 2012 01:51 PM (p7BzH)

351 12 Monkeys was the best anti-econazi movie every made.

---

How about documentary Grizzly Man?

In the words of Ron White, "Funniest movie I ever saw."

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:52 PM (e0xKF)

352
Posted by: crisis du jour at December 07, 2012 01:47 PM (DFGPG)

Thanks for pointing out that website. World Magazine also does both political and cultural stuff.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 07, 2012 01:52 PM (eA3m/)

353 Want to get back at them?

Exist and enjoy yourself. Nothing makes a leftist angrier than knowing that a conservative somewhere is happy.

Look who angrily unfriends people on Facebook for daring to disagree with their dogma?

Sure, we have our share of angry people, but I see it far more from the leftists.

That's why trolls are here. They're miserable even in victory, so they make it their mission to ruin our day too

Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 01:52 PM (wwsoB)

354 Let me be very clear here- what they said on MTV
would have gotten them patted on the head and told to try harder, if
they'd been posting it in a comment here. It was ridiculously
inoffensive- except it contained One Of The Proscribed Words.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:49 PM (5DR1j)



Eh, I don't really have a problem with it. "We are a Christian organization and we expect our artists to meet certain standards. You don't, you're gone." Evanescence didn't, so they were gone. And if you continue to follow their career, especially Amy Lee's relationship with Seether's frontman, it was probably better for all to part ways early on.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 07, 2012 01:52 PM (da5Wo)

355 Did I really just call something that happened in ~2000 "very recently?"

Just shoot me now.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:53 PM (5DR1j)

356 That's why trolls are here. They're miserable even in victory, so they make it their mission to ruin our day too


****

Yeah. God luck with that.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 01:53 PM (piMMO)

357 Where is the Heritage of TV and movie funding?

Walden Media (the production company that did The Chronicles of Narnia movies, owned by Phillip Anschutz) is sort of like that I would suppose.

Posted by: Uncle Milty at December 07, 2012 01:53 PM (YsFN3)

358 I watch good movies on turn off dreck.

Watched 5 minutes of the canditates or the campaigin or whatever Will Ferrel's movie was and when they had the Koch brothers in China speaking bad Mandarin, that was enough for me:

1) Please don't have people speak Mandarin like shit. Its sounds horrible, and if its as bad as in that movie, no native speaker would listen to the person so its not very realistic.

2) The Koch brothers mainly have US plants. They also have a business philosophy that specifically is about COMPLIANCE. As in comply with every regulation. They wrote a book about their business, including this part. I read the book before I knew who they were politically, and I have to say, Libs should love them because they are all about COMPLIANCE.

3) The factory scene in China is so over the top lame and the claim they can make the product in America, and thus blah blah blah...there is no business sense to the scene. Thus I cannot watch it. I hate when movies try to have some cool story line and then it becomes stupid because they don't know anything about the subject. Note there are movies with business scenes that completely realistic with evil business people. You don't have to make it stupid.

Note going into the movie, I was fine with some anti-conservative stuff being in it.



Posted by: Sexypig at December 07, 2012 01:54 PM (dZQh7)

359 Where is the Heritage of TV and movie funding?

****

Who produced those Christian movies which did so well a couple of years ago? One was about, IIRC, firefighter and his family.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 01:55 PM (piMMO)

360 >>Also, making the villain a politician -- even a conservative one --
reinforces >>the idea that politicians are much more dangerous than people
in the private >>sector.



Yes, but I'm tired, tired, tired of TV and Hollywood writers with their Evil Republican Senator schtick. The R politician is ALWAYS incompetent or goofy, intolerant/homophobic, very often corrupt, quite frequently a sexual pervert, either a child molester or sado-masochist.

They've made it CW (conventional wisdom) that Republicans are this.

Posted by: Sphynx at December 07, 2012 01:55 PM (j2McS)

361 Sphynx, I like the venture capital idea. Why hasn't it happened yet? The pro-politics and anti-entertainment biases of professional conservative establishment? I remember a comment on this blog where somebody bluntly said that conservatives don't like the arts, only business.

Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 01:55 PM (IShFQ)

362 Eh, I don't really have a problem with it. "We are a
Christian organization and we expect our artists to meet certain
standards. You don't, you're gone." Evanescence didn't, so they were
gone. And if you continue to follow their career, especially Amy Lee's
relationship with Seether's frontman, it was probably better for all to
part ways early on.


Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 07, 2012 01:52 PM (da5Wo)

However, this is why young people don't embrace "some" conservative values. A consistent purging of non-purists will leave you with no political clout.

Posted by: Jack Wagon at December 07, 2012 01:57 PM (KUPae)

363 Wow, Ace. I see you're not complaining about porn.

Posted by: John the Libertarian at December 07, 2012 01:57 PM (oshol)

364 Can it be changed, the cultural given? Of course; Modernism was a change from Romanticism. But the change has to take place at the meta level, and right now I don't see that happening.
Posted by: Cricket at December 07, 2012 01:50 PM (DrC22)


Thank you, Cricket! This ties in exactly with what I was trying to say upthread, but you've said it far more eloquently than I could.

The meta needs to work like one of those Magic Eye pictures. It goes from a bunch of unrelated dots and suddenly materializes into an image. So many people today are so stupid and incapable of higher brain functions, though, that we feel like we have to make the dots the size of hubcaps, and audiences trip through the gaps between them.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:57 PM (4df7R)

365 Eh, I don't really have a problem with it. "We are a Christian
organization and we expect our artists to meet certain standards. You
don't, you're gone." Evanescence didn't, so they were gone. And if you
continue to follow their career, especially Amy Lee's relationship with
Seether's frontman, it was probably better for all to part ways early
on.


I have a problem with it on a tactical/strategic level. And we'll never know what would have happened because the label cut them.

But, while they were on the label, they had some ability to control what Evanescence did, as a band. They had a cultural "in" and, rather than say something along the lines of "We're disappointed she said that, but it's one word and not reflective of her character," they dumped the band- and the bands music moved away from the Christian themes that were very well presented in that first album.

Now their stuff is the same "spiritual" wishy-washy stuff as, say, System of a Down.

Another good band with (at least some) very Christian themes- Disturbed. Which may be supremely ironic, and definitely unintended, but they're there.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:58 PM (5DR1j)

366 How about documentary Grizzly Man? In the words of Ron White, "Funniest movie I ever saw."
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:52 PM (e0xKF)


Ditto "Into the Wild." Dumbass kid.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 01:58 PM (4df7R)

367 Agree with this entirely. And, in fact, I think you hit on something: we should aim in all things to be as unlike K-Lo as conceivably possible. She may be the greatest bore in the whole of the conservative world. There is no point that she might ever make that we cannot predict wholly in advance. She is always, always, sententious and insufferable. The extent to which one approaches the K-Lo pole (or the extent to which the conservative media and movement approach the K-Lo pole) is in very large part the extent to which we alienate any non-true-believers (pun sort-of intended) in their droves. She's terrible. Be not that.

Posted by: NotA at December 07, 2012 01:58 PM (wnMoI)

368 Believe it or not, Katy Perry's musical career started in the Christian genre

Her boobehs got their start in a Dow-Corning factory

Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 01:58 PM (wwsoB)

369 Wow, Ace. I see you're not complaining about porn.
Posted by: John the Libertarian at December 07, 2012 01:57 PM (oshol)

-------

He already did, and it worked. We now offer plenty of tan-line porn for his and your viewing pleasure.

Posted by: The Internet at December 07, 2012 01:59 PM (b+8h9)

370 I keep hammering on education b/c I'm in an education program. Here's what I'm looking for (and planning on figuring out how to set up, once I'm established with a job):

-Networking and social groups within your profession as a kind of support group in order to give newcomers and young'uns the lay of the land. This is extremely hard to do at first because very often you may the only conservative in your school, and Liberals are used to seeing ideological bullying/intimidation as righteous. Reaching out can even seem treacherous b/c you don't know whether or not there are spy wannabes who just want to get you on the social shitlist for being conservative. It may seem paranoid, but since education and entertainment is more like a guild than a normal job, it's hard to risk that initial alienation.

-At first, even if it's just a couple of people meeting every couple of weeks to share experiences and have a minor bitching session, it's useful because it cuts down on the self-censorship due to the semi-rational paranoia that sets in when you're overwhelmingly outnumbered by vocal hostility.

-If a group like this could be put together in one town/city and develop something like a monthly newsletter (e.g., one sheet, maybe only one-sided) with only like an encouraging editorial, a brief anecdote/moral story, and a couple "tips with how to introduce conservatism into the classroom", that would be like manna from heaven.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at December 07, 2012 02:00 PM (f93QC)

371 At the risk of sounding simplistic, if conservatives produce media full of ideas that resonate with freedoms, choices and responsibilities and leave the stuff of base feelings and emotions to the "creative" left, we'll win in the long run.

True that 1 to 2 hour teleplays generally seek to create a mood and an outlet for the audience to emote, but that pretty much dies with the end of the show.

A lot of what Hollyweird produces today is derivative or rehashed sequel masquerading as franchise or successful genre.

Ideas have a life, and great truths are eternal.
That should be the focus of conservative media and its entertainment arm.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 07, 2012 02:00 PM (aZ6ew)

372 Best part: he is right and nobody does Jack Shit about it.

People who don't have the time to determine whether the lies these people spew are nonsense will continue to be persuaded by what they write or say.

Posted by: marcus at December 07, 2012 02:00 PM (LF3tQ)

373 12 Monkeys was the best anti-econazi movie every made.
___

Yes, and Terry Gilliam made Brazil too. Almost 1984-ish in its anti-big government story. And if you called Terry Gilliam a conservative he'd probably gnaw your head off. Or his own.

Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 02:00 PM (IShFQ)

374
Let me be very clear here- what they said on MTV would have gotten them patted on the head and told to try harder, if they'd been posting it in a comment here. It was ridiculously inoffensive- except it contained One Of The Proscribed Words.

I remember when I was a teenager, when my dad use to throw away my Nirvana and Pearl Jam cd's because they were satanic (not unlike Dungeons and Dragons which I wasn't allowed to play), one time I found a Focus On The Family magazine sitting on the counter and flipped through it.

Nice long spiel listing all the ways the Austin Powers 2 movie was satanic. Good? Not really. Classy? The opposite. But satanic?

And I figured "So that's where he gets it! My parents think everything is satanic because of this stupid magazine they keep reading!' Probably not, but that's what I thought.

So I started throwing them away fresh out of the mail before the 'rents got to them. And I've viscerally hated the fuckers ever since.

Posted by: Entropy at December 07, 2012 02:01 PM (TULs6)

375 How about documentary Grizzly Man?



In the words of Ron White, "Funniest movie I ever saw."

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 01:52 PM (e0xKF)

THIS, that was the funniest doc I have ever seen. Of course it was unintentional, but my god watching that guy totally fall of the reality bandwagon was horrifying and at the same time fantastic.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 07, 2012 02:02 PM (NzBQO)

376 satanic (not unlike Dungeons and Dragons which I wasn't allowed to play

I remember those years. Ah, the fun of trying to get my youth minister to articulate exactly why "I toss a fireball down the corridor" "Okay, roll damage," was "satanic."

Eventually he stopped trying.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 02:03 PM (5DR1j)

377 Ace, have you seen The Wire? It is perhaps the biggest indictment of liberal urban an social policy that exists. I'm not sure why conservative or libertarians haven't pointed it out the way the should.

Liberals LOVED the series and talked about how realistic a portrayal it was and I never once heard conservatives point out that most of the troubles that beset the characters are due to the end results of liberalism.

Posted by: taylork at December 07, 2012 02:03 PM (ppNDn)

378 325

you have to understand the economy is structurally weak...from structures of a Bushian nature of course

Posted by: JDP at December 07, 2012 02:03 PM (60GaT)

379 Believe it or not, Katy Perry's musical career started in the Christian genre

Her boobehs got their start in a Dow-Corning factory

Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2012 01:58 PM (wwsoB)

------

Oh, gosh, Jessica Simpson started off as a Christian singer, too, and Ashlee was on one of the network Christian-y shows with a kazillion kids. Ooof. Christian media really can and has done a lot worse than Amy Lee saying poop on MTV.

Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at December 07, 2012 02:03 PM (b+8h9)

380 227 I can only imagine how compelling a family drama with no drama, or a comedy without any subversive nature would be. Can't wait until someone thinks it'd sell a lot of soap and Toyotas puts it on TV.




So the only way to have drama is to have some sort of liberal who's being oppressed by a conservative?
Posted by: taylork at December 07, 2012 01:19 PM (ppNDn)

I know Olaf is a dirty troll, but you could easily turn that around. You have a normal family and the drama or comedy is in the crazy crap that happens around them, be it through friends or family or whatnot. And the friends/family creating the dramatic/funny issue should be shown having to face the consequences of their actions and the normal folks help them out of it by sharing their values or ideas or whatever.

It would be ripped to shreds by the powers that be, but look at the success of something like South Park, where the kids are sort of the normal people trying to make it with all the nuts around them, and the lesson at the end is usually fairly common sense. You could take that formula and expand on it.

Just a thought, anyway.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 07, 2012 02:04 PM (qFpRI)

381 Yes, and Terry Gilliam made Brazil too. Almost 1984-ish in its anti-big government story. And if you called Terry Gilliam a conservative he'd probably gnaw your head off. Or his own.
Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 02:00 PM (IShFQ)


This is what I always find so funny about Joss whedon, too. He's an uber-leftist, but the driving themes of his most well-known works are conservative as they come. He just doesn't realize it because he's always been a leftist, and so his beliefs must be leftist beliefs, and he doesn't realize what he's saying through his stories is very conservative.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 02:04 PM (4df7R)

382 How about documentary Grizzly Man?



Is that the one where the guy goes to live with the bears, falls in love with them, and then gets eaten?

Because, yes, that was funny.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 02:04 PM (5DR1j)

383 If we wish to change the culture and the system, we must take the following steps:

1) School vouchers via tax credit. Remove rules about teaching degrees being required.

2) Think strategically - for example, move tax day to one week before the elections. Call this "making sure we see the price tag before we buy something"

3) Make more art...the problem with that is that unless you can get distribution, good luck. But actually I think we are doing much, much better in this area - at least libertarians are.

4) Shrink Academia. They less sinecures in administration and academia, the less leftists have positions of power.

5) Reality show about welfare. There are more than enough white people scamming the system too so that you don't need to look racist. It would be very entertaining to see the 22 year old guys on SSDI goofing off.

6) Bring back the draft.

7) Make Congressmen come home for 1 year out of their 2 year term to be assigned a random company from their district. During that one year, the Congressman is in charge of handling all tax and regulatory issues for that company, and has to sign off on their own work. No assistants except the normal employees of the company are allowed for this work.

Require political parties to submit CBO scored budgets one month before elections are held.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 07, 2012 02:04 PM (dZQh7)

384 >>>Ditto "Into the Wild." Dumbass kid.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit

Long, boring, & not accurate. Some guy who went to school with him tried to make a documentary on the kid but Sean Penn fucked with him all the way. So, he made a documentary on how Sean Penn was a dick. I recommend it.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 07, 2012 02:04 PM (e/Cti)

385 Another good band with (at least some) very
Christian themes- Disturbed. Which may be supremely ironic, and
definitely unintended, but they're there.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 01:58 PM (5DR1j)


Wait....what? I've listened to a fair bit of Disturbed. Their music is my kind of music. But never, ever, have I gotten a "Christian" feel from their stuff. Have you ever listened to the cd version of "Down with the Sickness"? In which he refers to his mother as an abusive, sadistic fucking whore?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 07, 2012 02:04 PM (da5Wo)

386 >>>the market is deformed by a lack of competitors entering it, and
that's because conservatives, for a variety of reasons, self-select away
from it.

>>>I think it's time to change that. In fact, I think the time to change
that was some time around 1957, but it's definitely time to change that
now.
That is an interesting topic of discussion.

Shameless self promotion. Yes I wrote about it.
I tend to think that our biggest enemy in getting into the market of entertainment and ideas is us and our preconceived notions about their lack of practical value.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at December 07, 2012 02:05 PM (0q2P7)

387 Matt Damon, doing a shitty job as producer, has no idea where the money for his anti-fracking film came from.... until he saw the logo, post-editing.

Exactly what, then, do producers do?


*Note Krasinski looking very uncomfortable

http://bit.ly/RFYZfm

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 02:05 PM (piMMO)

388 The pussy Republican Party (still controlled by the Establishment R's aka the limo liberals or Rhino's) should take a lesson from Obama and start punishing their enemies (political enemies that is). Push for the Instapundits Hollywood tax increases, push bills to unbundle cable channels, keep passing anti-union laws, and find ways to screw over college professors and administrators. But since the R Party is run by the likes of Boehner and McConnell these things won't be pushed and the R's will run another milktoast loser in 2016 (HW Bush, Dole, McCain, Romney etc)

Posted by: philo pharnsworth at December 07, 2012 02:05 PM (VDovR)

389 :::347 Sounds like alexthechick had the same upbringing I did. And if she was a member of the same compound, I would have invited her over to go swimming so I could accidentally feel her titty underwater.


You were allowed to engage in mixed bathing? You HEATHEN!
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Shipping Sheldon/Penny right to the end. at December 07, 2012 01:49 PM (VtjlW):::

Heh! You make me feel like a kid again!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 07, 2012 02:05 PM (MmK+i)

390 Brazil was an awesome movie.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 07, 2012 02:05 PM (dZQh7)

391 Christian pop culture peaked somewhere between 1998 and 2005, there used to be christian bands or at least bands that were full of christians on MTV, they would show up on TRL once and a while. They actually became commonplace for a few years, then poof they were gone. They probably left the minute MTV turned to reality television. Lets not forget Passion of the Christ.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 07, 2012 02:06 PM (NzBQO)

392 OK, one suggestion for Boehner...

Make sure to get on-camera Boehner watching Obama fly off to Hawaii for vacation while Boehner stays in town and goes back to the office.

But we all know what will happen. Boehner will leave before Obama.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 07, 2012 02:07 PM (dZQh7)

393 Have you ever listened to the cd version of "Down with the Sickness"? In
which he refers to his mother as an abusive, sadistic fucking whore?


Yes, yes I have. Actually, one of the radio stations in DFW "accidentally" played that one once (I wonder how big their fine was?). I didn't say all of their music.

But, even there- did you get the idea from the song that what his mom did to him was good? Even the chorus is about how it's *bad* that he is "down with the sickness." It's a recognition that that kind of abuse can breed a cycle of itself, and has to be broken.

Then listen to "Pray" which is kind of quintessentially about how, in this life, any promises that fail to take into account pain and loss are hollow.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 02:08 PM (5DR1j)

394 He's an uber-leftist, but the driving themes of his most well-known works are conservative as they come.

He's Alliance and doesn't even know it.

Alexthechick is River Tam.....and she just got "activated".

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 02:09 PM (GQ8sn)

395 "Evil Republican Senator" which is funny because Senators are pretty useless as pols go. Maybe an evil governor.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 07, 2012 02:09 PM (dZQh7)

396
I have tried to hone my skills as best as I can in writing material that has a conservative message without hitting the audience over the head. If I craft it correctly, the powers that be never recognize that they are being ridiculed/criticized
Keep up the good work. We need more people like you.

Posted by: harleycowboy at December 07, 2012 02:09 PM (+9AX9)

397 Make sure to get on-camera Boehner watching Obama fly off to Hawaii for vacation while Boehner stays in town and goes back to the office.

****

Someone needs to make an ad with Congress standing at the airport or sitting in the house, papers in hand, and anxiously checking their watches.

"Where is he?"

Close with the departing shot of AF1.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 02:10 PM (piMMO)

398 Senators became useless after the 17th Amendment.

Posted by: Jack Wagon at December 07, 2012 02:10 PM (KUPae)

399 Joss Whedon made Firefly! Libertarian wet dream! Even The Avengers is about personal heroism. Even if some of the heroes were created by government programs. But Ironman is all about the efforts of one individual capitalist to save the world and boink Gwyneth Paltrow.

Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 02:11 PM (IShFQ)

400 As well, that ad could be filmed with families at a dinner table, standing in the unemployment line, cashing welfare checks... all anxiously checking their watches, and asking, "Where is he?"

Voice over: Time is running out.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 02:12 PM (piMMO)

401 I can only imagine how compelling a family drama with no drama, or a comedy without any subversive nature would be. Can't wait until someone thinks it'd sell a lot of soap and Toyotas puts it on TV.

That's the stupidest comment you've made in a while, troll.

Stories are driven by conflict. Period, full stop. Conflict doesn't have to be "I'm gay and my dad's a homophobe!" The choice of whether or not to cheat on an exam is conflict. Going to the prom or staying home is a conflict. Hell, red pill versus blue pill is a conflict. It's about choices and decisions and the resulting fallout. There needn't be anything political or ideological or moral tied up in those decisions. I buy generic store brand allergy medicine because it's cheaper than the namebrand stuff. Is it as effective? Not that I've noticed, but I'm not willing to pay the extra money to be sure. Am I forcing myself to deal with worse allergy symptoms as a result of my thriftiness? Maybe. But that's my story.

We really do have stupid trolls. S omeone go bomb his bridge.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 07, 2012 02:12 PM (4df7R)

402 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 02:08 PM (5DR1j)





Holy crap. Somebody's ass got put in a sling for that one.



No, I don't get the idea that what happened was good. But my point was that this:



No mommy, don't do it again

Don't do it again

I'll be a good boy

I'll be a good boy, I promise

No mommy don't hit me

Why did you have to hit me like that, mommy?

Don't do it, you're hurting me

Why did you have to be such a bitch

Why don't you,

Why don't you just fuck off and die

Why can't you just fuck off and die

Why can't you just leave here and die

Never stick your hand in my face again bitch

FUCK YOU

I don't need this shit

You stupid sadistic abusive fucking whore

How would you like to see how it feels mommy

Here it comes, get ready to die




can't really be conceived of as "Christian", now can it?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 07, 2012 02:13 PM (da5Wo)

403
Elmore Leonard wrote "Get Shorty" and some other little books that were made into respectable movies. These may have been novels, but barely long enough to be thought of as such.

My point is, he's writing for the movies and he's pretty rich.

Oh, and Ethel Mertz? Kind of a whore.

Posted by: spongeworthy at December 07, 2012 02:13 PM (r5w1L)

404 Mormons have enough money to run ads on being a better person.

Where is the Heritage fund that runs 30 second story-ads of, say, a teacher abusing her power and a student standing up to her.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 07, 2012 02:14 PM (R+6Q+)

405 Yes, but I'm tired, tired, tired of TV and Hollywood writers with their Evil Republican Senator schtick.

Hence Leverage successfully pulling a head fake recently by making it look like the Republican Senator is a bad guy but actually he's the good guy. I think it's actually becoming a trend to mock that bit of CW.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 07, 2012 02:14 PM (B/VB5)

406
Fuck the media, what we need to take control of are the schools. Pre K all the way up to universities. That way, we don't need to worry about what's on tv or playing at the cinema.
Absolutely. That's what the socialists did and see howwell it worked out.

Posted by: harleycowboy at December 07, 2012 02:14 PM (+9AX9)

407 A lot of artists start out singing in church, Christians and Mormons. That's one of the only places to learn music and practice it on a daily basis. Justin Timberlake, Katy Perry, Jessica Simpson, Arcade Fire, Mumford and Sons, Backstreet Boys, Kings of Leon.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 07, 2012 02:15 PM (NzBQO)

408
I know Olaf is a dirty troll, but you could easily turn that around. You have a normal family and the drama or comedy is in the crazy crap that happens around them, be it through friends or family or whatnot. And the friends/family creating the dramatic/funny issue should be shown having to face the consequences of their actions and the normal folks help them out of it by sharing their values or ideas or whatever.

Um... Seventh Heaven?

Posted by: Entropy at December 07, 2012 02:15 PM (TULs6)

409 My take on Hollywood is that it is run by a lot of homos who are mad at their parents and at the world because being a homo wasn't accepted much while they were growing up. Many of them secretly hate themselves and really have never accepted themselves, because their parents didn't accept them. Which is why The Gayness coming out of Hollywood is so blatant. They assume that everyone else is like their own families were, and they really are on a crusade to Make Everyone Love Me. It's not political, it's personal.
And the straight liberals in Hollywood live in such ararefied racial and economic cocoon, that the only "oppressed" people they know for whom they can ostentatiously show their Great Liberal Compassion and Tolerance are the homos. So we get the near-hysterical ovations at the Oscars for every gay performer and every movie that has a gay theme or a cultural-conservatives-are-evil theme. Was there any doubt at all that "Brokeback Mountain" would win everything? And it really wasn't a very good movie.

It's a whole lot of self-hate and liberal preening coming out on the movie and TV screens. Not so much deliberate propagandizing.

Posted by: rockmom at December 07, 2012 02:16 PM (qE3AR)

410 Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 07, 2012 02:04 PM (qFpRI)

-----------

Everybody Hates Chris is really an example of the type of show you're describing---it's just completely unintentional. Chris Rock's fictionalized parents Rochelle and Julius got married before having kids, worked multiple jobs, sent their son to a public school outside the ghetto...and were surrounded by examples of irresponsible liberal idiots. Chris's bike and money were always stolen by neighborhood kids who had no father (and it was always mentioned that Chris was the only kid they knew who lived in the same house as his dad), when the parents were interviewing potential tenants for their upstairs apartment, it was a great bit, looked like something a conservative wrote. The worst applicants, the fighting couple, the fat woman with five kids tearing up the apartment, etc, all asked at the end of the interview "do you take foodstamps".

Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at December 07, 2012 02:16 PM (b+8h9)

411 Um... Seventh Heaven?

Until Jessica Biel decided it was time to break out and show her scrumptious tit tays in that magazine that millions of teenage boys eventually turned into pages of goo.

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 02:18 PM (GQ8sn)

412 ace @ #288 and #301:

Glad you agree, and that is a good song. Had no idea the singer was the memorable Silent Deadly Blonde from Die Hard with a Vengeance. Thanks!

Posted by: JPS at December 07, 2012 02:18 PM (M8qmw)

413 iEverybody Hates Chris is really an example of the type of show you're describing---it's just completely unintentional.

I remember the ep where the parents are trying to get Chris into a really nice private school and they pretty much lie, cheat, and steal to make it happen. Why? Because the school was better than the one Chris was in. And they gave a damn.

Posted by: EC at December 07, 2012 02:20 PM (GQ8sn)

414 If the stars should then appear
One night in a thousand years
How would man believe and adore
If the light of the city of God was shown there
Would they believe?
If the stars should then appear
One night in a thousand years

The scope of imagination
Searching the dark for a way
Just look to the multitude overhead
All point to the one
The one is all
The power divine
Light of the higher mind
Love, the power divine
Light of the higher mind
Love, the power divine
Yet man still doubts his destiny with God


-Glass Hammer "If the Stars" 2010

Posted by: BlueStateRepub at December 07, 2012 02:20 PM (7ObY1)

415 Consider yourself layed off. Laid off. Whatever, carry on.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 07, 2012 02:21 PM (ZMzpb)

416 A lot of artists start out singing in church, Christians and Mormons. That's one of the only places to learn music and practice it on a daily basis. Justin Timberlake, Katy Perry, Jessica Simpson, Arcade Fire, Mumford and Sons, Backstreet Boys, Kings of Leon.

****

Whitney Houston.

Beyonce Knowles who, of course, married a former druglord.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 07, 2012 02:21 PM (piMMO)

417 can't really be conceived of as "Christian", now can it?

Sometimes one has to point out the world's sin, before the world can be convicted of it.

And, again, I didn't say all of their songs.

The fact is, songs about real life (and how much it can truly, truly suck) are very Christian themed, or, at least, hook into Christian themes very easily.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 07, 2012 02:22 PM (5DR1j)

418 Damn I see I misread that Radish post. My brain wanted to see "profits" so that is what I saw even though it said "gross".


Psychology, how does that work?

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 02:22 PM (YdQQY)

419 Um... Seventh Heaven?
Posted by: Entropy at December 07, 2012 02:15 PM (TULs6)

--------------

Ah-ha! That's the name of the show I was trying to think of that had Ashlee Simpson. Yeah, the show focused on a Christian family, but man alive did it suck. It was cutesy and boring and the characters just weren't even that likable.

Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at December 07, 2012 02:23 PM (b+8h9)

420 Posted by: Jenny Tries Too Hard at December 07, 2012 02:16 PM (b+8h9)

Exactly! And it shouldn't be overtly "conservative," just make it about common sense stuff. Stuff that if people sat and a actually thought about it they'd realize how dumb some of our cultural ideas are. For example, I live the episode of South Park about Facebook, especially the part where Stan gets in trouble for not "poking" his grandma. It was so stupid, but because that stuff really does happen (and yes, I do know folks who are actively pissed off at me because I haven't "liked" a sufficient number of their photos or whatnot). And the moral is not that we should just accept that these things are ok and expand our consciousness or whatnot, but that this kind of behavior is actually stupid and should be treated as such.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at December 07, 2012 02:23 PM (qFpRI)

421
The fact is, songs about real life (and how much it can truly, truly suck) are very Christian themed, or, at least, hook into Christian themes very easily.

But it comes back to there being a cohort of folks who think if it's not Bug Juice and Veggie Tales, it's fucking satanism.

Posted by: Entropy at December 07, 2012 02:23 PM (TULs6)

422 BTW, should be get back on the meme that no movie worth a shit has been made since 1939 and no TV since 1959?


And if you don't agree you are an evil RINO.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 02:23 PM (YdQQY)

423
Ah-ha! That's the name of the show I was trying to think of that had Ashlee Simpson. Yeah, the show focused on a Christian family, but man alive did it suck. It was cutesy and boring and the characters just weren't even that likable

Again we come back to the cohort that insists that everything notbug juice and Veggie Talesis satanic.

Posted by: Entropy at December 07, 2012 02:25 PM (TULs6)

424 I remember reading about The Last Supper but not about its lefty-bashing. Will have to get it!

Vic, Mao's Last Dancer is about a ballet dancer. But he's a manly man too and an anti-ChiCommie.

Posted by: PJ at December 07, 2012 02:25 PM (ZWaLo)

425 Oh, and here's another take. While nobody was apparently looking. Mitt Romney actually won with young white males.

What kind of entertainments do young white males consume? Sports. Sci-fi, fantasy, superhero, and Judd Apatow sex-comedy movies. Call of Duty type video games. ALL of these promote self-reliance, personal responsibility, right and wrong, bad guys and good guys, and hetero sex.

What entertainments do young women consume? TV soap operas and chick-flicks/shows in which men are all serial abusers and adulterers, every pregancy is a disaster, motherhood is a death sentence, and everyone who espouses "traditional values" is actually a hypocrtical porn-consumer, cheater, rapist, etc.

We're doing fine with the male entertainments. We need to change what women are watching.

Posted by: rockmom at December 07, 2012 02:25 PM (qE3AR)

426 Damn, ace sneaked in a new post while I was busy.

Posted by: Vic at December 07, 2012 02:26 PM (YdQQY)

427 273Cricket But regardless of whether there is any merit in my stuff, try waling
into a Barnes Noble and looking at the books that are featured.



They own the means of production. What's a poor girl to do?


No they don't own the means of production. Barnes Noble is barely hanging on by its fingernails. Rumor has it they may spin off the Nook side (the only part that is really making money). Borders is dead. The establishment publishers are putting out fewer books every year and the advances to writers are down, meaning you will be seeing more famous names coming to the Dark Side of indie publishing (we have cookies!)

Amazon and the other ebook folks are doing better every year, and Amazon doesn't care whether your book is overtly conservative or not. (Hmm. Market opportunity for "Fifty Shades of Hayek"?) And it isn't just ebooks, either. I do print versions of my books as well.

I went to a Barnes Noble recently to do market research. In the Speculative Fiction end, it's pretty much all vampires and werewolves, all the time. And *urban* vampires and werewolves. There's less of everything. Hardbound books are rare, even for very famous author's new books. I am quite sure the reading public wants a *little* more variety than a different ethnic background for the vampire per series. This, and the other things I mentioned above, is a market error we can exploit. I certainly intend to ;-)

Posted by: bad cat robot at December 07, 2012 02:26 PM (65lpa)

428 394 He's an uber-leftist, but the driving themes of his most well-known works are conservative as they come.

He's Alliance and doesn't even know it.

Alexthechick is River Tam.....and she just got "activated".

---

Would HeatherRadish be a more sarcastic Kaylee?

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 07, 2012 02:28 PM (e0xKF)

429 Oh, and Ethel Mertz? Kind of a whore.

Tell me about it. Every night I ask what's for dinner, she says, "hot Cuban sausage!" But what do I see on the goddam plate seven nights a week? Franks and beans.

Drives a guy to drink, Rick, I tells ya.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 07, 2012 02:28 PM (zF6Iw)

430 No they don't own the means of production. Barnes Noble is barely hanging on by its fingernails.

*****

Very true.
Studios and networks are suffering from lower attendance and viewership as well. Because who wants to pay money (or watch commercials) to be bored and insulted at the same time?

Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 02:31 PM (IShFQ)

431 BTW, I may be the only person here who watches "The Good Wife," but it is areally wonderful show that I think is trying hard to step back from the liberal-culture ledge, at least a little. The main characters are all liberals, but they are also extremely flawed and the show portrays frequent conflicts between their liberal values and the reality of them pursuing career success or personal satisfaction. The heroine is clearly a secular liberal, but suddenly her teenage daughter becomes a Christian and it makes her very happy,and the heroinehas to think hard about how to be a tolerant liberal in the face of this. Meanwhile, the heroine's ex-husband is a Democratic politician (in Chicago, no less!) who has cheated on her at least twice, has a sleazebag campaign manager who will do anything to win - including trupming up a charge of hiring an illegal nanny to gethis black female opponent to drop out of the race for state's attorney. The managing partner of the law firm where the heroine works is a well-connected liberal feminist, but does all sorts of sleazy stuff to save the firm when she has to, and backs men candidates against women when it will help her professionally.This characterwas a big Hillary Clinton supporter and has made disparaging comments about both Obamas.

The one big misstep they made with the show was coming in this season with a SM storyline about one of the female characters having a mutually abusive relationship with a secret husband. The husband character was genuinely repulsive. Apparently CBS got enough letters and tweets about this that they dropped the storyline, and this week the woman killed the guy to finally get rid of him. Her character started out as this hot bisexual that seduced men and women (and ended up being the first one the heroine's husband cheated with), but she has become more and more unlikable and nasty.

Posted by: rockmom at December 07, 2012 02:40 PM (qE3AR)

432 Good post, but...

If conservative art isn't to be overtly political, then how would it be conservative? Just by not having overtly liberal messages in it? Or would it implicitly contain conservative cultural messages?

For example, would a conservative artist portray a homosexual couple in a movie/novel/television show as rather less-than-perfect? Perhaps even loathsome? Wouldn't that art (and artist) immediately be denounced as hateful and homophobic by most of the rest of the art community?

In fact, isn't that pretty much exactly what the Left has done to films (and their filmmakers) that don't have overt conservative political messages, but do have implicit conservative cultural messages (like 300, or The Passion of the Christ, or Black Hawk Down, or Red Dawn, or etc.)?

I'm glad that conservatives are having this discussion, because it needs to be had. We are losing the political battles because we have been annihilated in the cultural war, and we've been annihilated in the cultural war because the Left completely controls the entertainment media. So a solution to this problem would be very helpful to the conservative cause.

However, I'm not sure this is a solvable problem. What the Left takes, it holds. I don't think they will allow competition, no matter how apolitical the competition may appear to be.

Sorry if I sound a bit pessimistic, but this is my honest belief. Nothing short of a junta taking power or the SMOD is going to dislodge the Left from their control over the levers of power and influence in this country.

Posted by: The guy who says Ron Paul at December 07, 2012 02:50 PM (QTVh2)

433 "This is what I always find so funny about Joss whedon, too. He's an
uber-leftist, but the driving themes of his most well-known works are
conservative as they come."

Well, not really. Almost anyone religious in his shows is an intolerant, murderous hypocrite. All military men are fascists. Every father has either abandoned his family, or is a warped martinet. (Honestly, now: I defy you to name *one* father in *any* Joss Whedon show who's anywhere near normal.) His feminism is so overt and so crude, it makes me cringe at times.

Now, I like Joss Whedon's stuff as much as anyone. I even watched "Dollhouse", for God's sake. The man is a gifted storyteller, and has a talent for ensemble interplay and dialogue. But that doesn't make him a conservative: far from it.

Posted by: Brown Line at December 07, 2012 02:53 PM (VrNoa)

434 "Almost anyone religious in his shows is an intolerant, murderous hypocrite."

Except for the preacher character in Firefly who gets killed by the Alliance.

Posted by: Sexypig at December 07, 2012 02:57 PM (dZQh7)

435 Sorry if I sound a bit pessimistic, but this is my honest belief. Nothing short of a junta taking power or the SMOD is going to dislodge the Left from their control over the levers of power and influence in this country.

*****

SPARTANS! READY YOUR BREAKFAST AND EAT HEARTY! FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!

Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 02:58 PM (IShFQ)

436 Except for the preacher character in Firefly who gets killed by the Alliance.

*****
Oh no! I didn't finish watching the episodes yet on Netflix! I have to stick my head back in the sand.

Posted by: Mike at December 07, 2012 03:00 PM (IShFQ)

437 Just remember that blogging, particularly of the sort that Dreher and Chait do, as an end in itself is an alternative to politics, in the same way that masturbation is an end in itself and an alternative to sex.

Dreher claims he didn't vote for president, because his state went for Romney anyway. By not voting he voted instead for what was most important to him, drawing the most eyes, pro-Romney and con-Romney, to TAC in general and to his blog in particular.

Those who wish to believe that culture shapes politics rather than vice versa will probably not be dissuaded from the siren songs of the Drehers and the Chaits, so listen to their singing and sail onto their reefs if you will.

Those who still can think, however, still understand that politics is THE driving engine of culture: it determines what culture is possible and what is not. Mexican Latinos are not taking over the Southwest and elsewhere, including Hollywood storylines, because our culture prompted Mexico to pump their poor north, just the opposite. Mexican politics (and our lack of politics) rewrote our culture.

Conservatives don't have a culture problem - there's no dearth of conservative culture anywhere - they have a political problem: the only political party other than the Democrats is the Republicans, and too few conservatives want to roll in that committed, down-to-earth political ickiness of actually being a voting, legislating Republican.

It's easier to want to be a navel-gazing Dreher or Chait - or to quit the Senate and head up a think tank. Then, when you find you can't get it up anymore, you can nod and point to "culture" - the stuff of blogs, and sitcoms, and Ipads, not of laws and legislation and taxes and regulation.

BTW, why the hell is civil disobedience only the province of the Left, while the Right keeps trundling along like doodlebugs, obediently filling out those silly American Community Surveys while Obama laughs at enforcing federal law, or worse, creating it by fiat? But, oh - if we could only get a conservative sitcom!


Posted by: Peter at December 07, 2012 03:00 PM (cCZve)

438 This is a great post. I still can't figure out why Breitbart never read the posts...

Posted by: rfichoke at December 07, 2012 03:05 PM (7IVz2)

439 I've thought about this quite a bit. As digital filmmaking tools drop the costs of consumer created content, this is likely to be an opportunity within our lifetimes. A studio system that paid residuals as promised and wasn't as intractibly controled by bureaucracy (and business requirements to create the kinds of success necessary to imact big firm's financial statmenets) would have a ton of success attracting talented people. I'd base it in Nashville.
First thing I'd do is create films based on old stories (less famous Bible stories, European Myth etc). Aping on the success of Passion of the Christ, I'd make sure the bible films were known to pastors. Stories like David, Samson, myths Odyssuss, Hercules, even fairy tales and other containers of folk wisdom have conservative messages, but don't need to be preachy and have generations of improvements.
Once you have a few hits, and you pay residuals fairly, it would become much easier to attract talent for either orignal ideas or better versions of the same.

Posted by: bluto at December 07, 2012 03:21 PM (duHKQ)

440 "Conservatives don't have a culture problem - there's no dearth of conservative culture anywhere - they have a political problem: the only political party other than the Democrats is the Republicans, and too few conservatives want to roll in that committed, down-to-earth political ickiness of actually being a voting, legislating Republican."

More specifically, they take their per exception as "holding the line" as a mandate to go along to get along, while the Dems get to play devil's advocate. They will cheat, conspire, steal and take the lowest of roads, because while they might not have standards, they certainly have an agenda.

The GOP has become like their recent nominee back when he ran for governor. First, is there anything like a Log Cabin Republican among the Democrats? No, toe the line or take your lashes. They also wait till you're dispensable to commence with the purgings; they even tolerate Lieberman and would never dream of primarying a solid seat while in the minority. But what did Romney promise gay activists when he ran for the governor 's office? "I'll keep my head down and duck a fight." That's the kind of leadership conservatives have come to expect.

Meanwhile, there are a million issues that require our lawnaker's attention. They should be a party of reform and individual empowerment, not corporate welfare policy wise. But culturally, conservatives need to be less judgmental. If they are going to make relevant cultural contributions, they should buck the stereotypes of conservatives and elaborate on the implications of their characters' lifestyle choices.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 07, 2012 03:21 PM (i0vBR)

441 "Ace, have you seen The Wire? It is perhaps the biggest indictment of
liberal urban an social policy that exists. I'm not sure why
conservative or libertarians haven't pointed it out the way the should."

Oddly, David Simon insists that the show is an indictment of capitalism. That may have been his intent, but it didn't quite come out that way.

Posted by: Knemon at December 07, 2012 03:22 PM (u1+3w)

442
Bioshock Infinite - I knew right from the start that this game was going to be insufferably arrogant, and as a result I've had no more than a passing interest in it. Thanks for confirming that with the preview link.

On the topic of vocal artists who had religious connections in their background, wasn't Alannis Morrisette unofficially "adopted" by a neighboring Mormon family that helped her getthrough her childhood?

Posted by: junior at December 07, 2012 03:23 PM (UWFpX)

443 "First thing I'd do is create films based on old stories (less famous Bible stories"

This is a great idea for a tv series, but pick another era besides biblical times, either make it a period piece or modernize it and make it for teens and young adults.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 07, 2012 03:24 PM (i0vBR)

444 You're right, rockmom, about The Good Wife. They even had a story about a conservative, evangelical professor who was fired for that, and they presented her very positively.

I missed the barbs at the Obamas, darn it. Glad they dropped the crazy husband story too. He was so not attractive.

Posted by: PJ at December 07, 2012 03:28 PM (ZWaLo)

445 Great post Ace; art high and low molds everyone everyone, whetrger they are aware of it or not.

There was a recent article in Human Events detailing how Washington was moved by more by literature than by a n obsessive interest in political philosophy that illustrates your point quite well, find the full article here: http://tinyurl.com/avua84x
"Although Washington was not an expert in constitutional government
like many of his contemporaries, his understanding of history and love
of the classics informed his opinion about how he should act at the
close of the war. This would be the ultimate test of character for the
“indispensable man” of the American Revolution." etc and so on.



Posted by: Sid the Lid at December 07, 2012 03:34 PM (cF8oM)

446 Posted by: rockmom at December 07, 2012 02:16 PM (qE3AR)

Broke back Mountain one an Oscar for the same reason liberals love Willie Nelson's Cowboys Are Frequently Secretly Fond of Each Other, the same cheap laughs you get when A Republixan is caught in a gay sex scandal. It tears down their opposition and demoralizes their supporters. As for why there are so many gays in entertainment and media, it's a culture that pushes decadence and gays don't take holidays. They work overtime and take great pains to keep their personal life separate, making them model employees, loyal, trustworthy.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 07, 2012 03:36 PM (i0vBR)

447 Even the morals whose values Chait claims are self-evident are lies. The left talks about greed, but all the want is everything you have. They talk about questioning authority, but if you questin them they go absolutely ape-shit.
.
They ¤have¤ to obsessively control communication of culture, because if they don't they're nothing but Gollums,sad pathetic destructive caricatures.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith's mobile at December 07, 2012 03:40 PM (/ugld)

448 Their theory is that any technology advanced enough to bring your brain back to life will be able to make you a Frankenbody easily enough.

Posted by: ace at December 07, 2012 12:45 PM (LCRYB)


That's a funny thought, seeing your head attached to Bender.

Posted by: Bill H at December 07, 2012 03:45 PM (3sZO1)

449 Wow, posting on hydrocodone the day after hernia surgery doesn't work very well. Hope you all can ignore the general inarticulateness of my post and follow the link to the article on Washington, because it buttresses Ace's point very well. http://tinyurl.com/avua84x

Posted by: Sid the Lid at December 07, 2012 04:08 PM (cF8oM)

450 388 The pussy Republican Party (still controlled by the Establishment R's aka the limo liberals or Rhino's) should take a lesson from Obama and start punishing their enemies (political enemies that is). Push for the Instapundits Hollywood tax increases, push bills to unbundle cable channels, keep passing anti-union laws, and find ways to screw over college professors and administrators. But since the R Party is run by the likes of Boehner and McConnell these things won't be pushed and the R's will run another milktoast loser in 2016 (HW Bush, Dole, McCain, Romney etc)
Posted by: philo pharnsworth at December 07, 2012 02:05 PM (VDovR)

If there is any reason to call them pussies, it is this. Less compassionate conservatism and more Lamentations.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 07, 2012 04:35 PM (i0vBR)

451 If you're dumb enough to believe the media is driven entirely by profit, well ...

Posted by: Gerry at December 07, 2012 04:42 PM (+xtJ9)

452 On social issues, Hollywood has definitely made a huge impact, but I would argue that most of this would have come about gradually anyway.

And when you look at media (especially television) from say 50 years ago, it wasn't really a representation of the reality on the ground, it was just filtered and Americans liked watching an idealized version of how it "should be". My point is, because "Leave it to Beaver" was on television, that didn't mean all Americans actually lived that way in the 1950s. When the 1960's came with the drugs, sexual revolution and the other baggage, the biggest shows on television were titles like "The Andy Griffith Show" and "The Beverly Hillbillies".

As conservatives, I don't think there's anything we can do public policy wise, much of this is in the realm of parents teaching their children not to emulate this behavior. I have a lot more influence teaching my kids morality than some stupid sitcom.

Posted by: McAdams at December 07, 2012 05:56 PM (Cmjzj)

453 I realize that you don't understand the impact of these shows, but....

Little House on the Prairie
The Waltons

and, hard to believe, I know, The Brady Bunch. I've read more than one blog post, story, article, where someone mentions watching those shows when they were growing up. They showed people in dysfunctional families what real families should be like.

Those stories are out there, somewhere. If we have to set them in the old west or the 1890s, then so be it. But there is a way to show people, especially children, that values matter and what society should be like.

Posted by: notsothoreau at December 07, 2012 05:56 PM (uPhCY)

454 Is it a funny movie? Does it achieve its goals? Does it entertain?
Does it provoke? Those are the proper grounds for review of a film or
book. Sure, given a conservative audience, you'd also want to note the
objectionable material or positive messages in a sentence or two, to
alert conservative-minded people about them. But such things are not
properly the main grounds for appreciation of a fiction.

Why not review both? The 3 critics I most often read are George Orwell, Evelyn Waugh, and C S Lewis (in his day job). All three were excellent at separating the two ways of looking at a work, and discussing from both points, WITHOUT slighting either. (Well, Orwell sometimes goes over-political in emphasis. But then, he's the Leftist in this group; they really can't entirely help it.)

Granted, as my examples show, I'm not exactly engaged with the contemporary culture, and that's just how I want it.

Posted by: George LeS at December 07, 2012 06:24 PM (C4s3i)

455 The pussy Republican Party (still controlled by the Establishment R's aka the limo liberals or Rhino's) should take a lesson from Obama and start punishing their enemies (political enemies that is). Push for the Instapundits Hollywood tax increases, push bills to unbundle cable channels, keep passing anti-union laws, and find ways to screw over college professors and administrators. But since the R Party is run by the likes of Boehner and McConnell these things won't be pushed and the R's will run another milktoast loser in 2016


And the bitch of it is, the real bitch of it, all those things would appeal to the sort of voters they want, and want to try to appease with shit like amnesty and abortion.


They don't do this popular shit because they don't want to do this popular shit. They want to give up abortion and amnesty instead because they actually really want to give up abortion and amnesty regardless.


It's not just purges of conservatives from committees, got to look at the big picture - they just fired that dude who wrote a policy paper about copyright reform just for writing the paper. His reform ideas pissed off the RIAA and Marsha Blackburn.


The GOP is not the party of conservative reform, that's just a lie they peddle to get your votes and your money.

Posted by: entropy at December 07, 2012 07:23 PM (YUttk)

456 "As conservatives, I don't think there's anything we can do public policy wise, much of this is in the realm of parents teaching their children not to emulate this behavior."

Not to emulate which behavior? Not to be gay, not to get knocked up, not to drop out of college and join a band? No matter how you raise your children, they are still products of our school system, still out there in the world, and at some point, you have done all you can do. This is just more of your pseudo-secular "keep it at home" defeatist bullshit you post on every thread. Did you notice the HL Mencken quote at the top of the blog? Did you read the fucking article? Sitting down and shutting up is not why any of us are here, so take your concern to LGF or Frum Forum, you fake ass troll.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 07, 2012 07:27 PM (i0vBR)

457 This is just more of your pseudo-secular "keep it at home" defeatist bullshit you post on every thread. Did you notice the HL Mencken quote at the top of the blog? Did you read the fucking article?


But the GOP will not do any of these things. None of them will happen. There is no 'in the box' political solution, and politicians can't go outside the box. There may be things that can fix this, crazy unrealistic things like electing 3rd parties or something. They might work. But they are crazy and unrealistic. Solving this in in any way is batshit insane Luap Nor territory. It's not realistic. Not practical. A broken system cannot fix itself.


You can fight fight fight if you please, but if you fight about politics you're almost certainly wasting all your energy and investment.


Better to save that for fighting over the ashes. There is no realistic practical solution to our Federal level problems, which are being mimicked by half our states.

Posted by: entropy at December 07, 2012 07:41 PM (YUttk)

458 But this blog post is about how culture informs politics. We all know congress critters of any stripe are only interested in keeping their jobs. My point was that if you can't influence politics, then aim for culture. And where Ace says Christians arw shirking their life devoted to God if you pursue the humanities or spend time with your family, what do you think the Bible was? Did God give Simon grief for going out to spread the gospel during tax season? The bible is the ultimate cultural artifact, and most of the great art since was inspired by it. Contrary to popular belief, most evangelicals get this, which is why their so effective at grassroots. They've just gotten a little soft in recent years.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 07, 2012 10:54 PM (i0vBR)

459 Already on it. But that depends on how much truck you put into webcomics. Sure, it's starting to overtake published comics in a few ways, (mosty on account of them being free) but it'll probably be at least another decade before the platform becomes really influential. Even Homestuck is largely seen as more of a mere Internet meme than something which could be said to really push the boundaries of how we view comics as art/storytelling.

Posted by: The Ghost of Flannery O'Connor at December 08, 2012 01:15 AM (WE5bx)

460 There are some conservative/traditional outlets out there still. Sherwood Pictures is one very good organization started not that many years ago. It produces films with real-world difficulties, and showsChristian character and decency in how those problems are resolved. I truly believe we are doomed unless the conservative/traditional acculteration that was abandoned around, say 1957 is resumed. If these donors wish America to continue, they need to work together to create an alternative to Hollywood that can compete on Hollywood's scale. The market is out there for wholesome, fun films. Hollywood seems to produce a big "family friendly" film whenever they need money, so they can then use that money to produce their "precious" artsy, money-losing, progressive, blather. We should instead have an industry to use these good quality films to finance additional good quality films. Real world stories must be told showing the young people just what economic and regulations are all about, but must be told in a creative, appealing, personal story that shows the real impacts on people's lives when bad policies are instituted. Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, but with less Objectivist coldheartedness and more "Little House on the Prairie" American voluntary decency.

Posted by: Elon Baker at December 08, 2012 11:47 AM (F8Oay)

461 This was Breitbart's raison d'être. We must win the cultural narrative. It should not be difficult to write biting satire about these retarded neo-Marxist as they write the material every day. They are to be ridiculed. The internet is the distribution channel, perhaps Fox. I am believe even Bill Maher would give this a shot to be "edgy".

Posted by: Ben Ghazzi at December 08, 2012 04:48 PM (ZEoTw)

462 A very intelligent column, Ace. I have to think more about it.

Posted by: skzion at December 08, 2012 06:20 PM (uT5Sb)

463 You make some excellent points. I think it interesting how liberals will often discount the role of society in forming the moral position of its members (often citing that it's the individual's choice or the parents' choice) but discounting the larger role of the social voices around the individual (the peer pressure).

Conservatives suffer not simply from a lack of contenders, but also from the fact that conservatism isn't exciting on television. A good chunk of the populace (even many Christians) will tune out if a television talking head starts talking about religion. A show about a well-adjusted successful and happy businessman with a clever and successful family is not nearly as entertaining as a distraught single mother with multiple ex-boyfriends and a penchant for crime.

How can society teach the individual how to be successful when the television culture omits that side of the story and only shows us what's cool and exciting? The average person isn't likely to win the lotto or get away with an amazing bank heist, but what will help him get ahead is something he's not likely to find in the TV Guide. Whatsmore, the successful man is usually the story's villain having achieved his goals by somehow cheating others.

Posted by: Becky at December 08, 2012 06:28 PM (Xqyhu)

464 Excellent points in turn, Becky. We face an uphill battle of for no other reason that happy, healthy, productive people and families are considered boring. And it's not because of culture: stories since ancient times have thrived on conflict.

I think our best bet is to go back to the very origins of storytelling. My personal favourite is the thrust of my favorite literary joke: our oldest work of literature is a real-person slashfic. It's actually taught in schools, but it's better known as the Epic of Gilgamesh. Guy starts out as a real jerkass but develops through the story into a decent fellow. Very positive message, I think. (And proof of de-evolution: modern Hollywood writers apparently possess less storycrafting skill than those primitive Mesopotamians)

Connecting with our roots is something leftists keep attempting but fall flat due to their persistent chronological snobbery. But for those of us who value tradition, it should be our bread and butter because we, unlike leftists, actually understand and value the wisdom of our forebears. Conservatism resonates with the part of our humanity which does not "evolve", and if we use that creatively, we'll secure the audiences we need to influence.

Posted by: The Ghost of Flannery O'Connor at December 08, 2012 08:09 PM (mMtFx)

465 "104 .. I am not unfamiliar with, hmm, how to put this, alternative use of media. One of the main points behind fan works is that if the culture isn't going to tell the stories we want to hear, then, fuck it, we're going to tell the stories ourselves. It's taking over the narrative and making it our own. "

I'm reposting alex's remarks because they are dead on the money. We have to participate in creating cultural expressions and "take over the narrative" to tell our stories; not run away from it because we aren't hearing our beliefs reflected.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at December 08, 2012 11:27 PM (OTWsz)

466 " 245 ...I thought I could take my experience of success in industry into the classroom, but I forgot something. I didn't have any liberals on the same plane as me in industry. Enter the classroom and another teacher down the hall could be the biggest lib on the planet. Ready, willing, and able to pitch knives into your back. Every day, if necessary until the threat of my existence was abolished. Which they will do, to administration. Pack administration full of liberals and you have about zero chance of success, no matter if the parents and children love you. "


I have to agree this is a ongoing problem for conservative teachers in the public schools. The parents and the students love the results but the left-wingers go to extremes to sabotage the teacher's standing. By leaving, however, they won yet again. However, left-wing domination was also won slowly over a period of time. What did they do to worm their way into power, and can it be duplicated to reverse the process? All of the current status did not start out in the place it has established at this time. Nothing is ever permanent and nothing is not reversible.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at December 08, 2012 11:36 PM (OTWsz)

467 I agree with Ace that the liberals now largely control the mass media, although as a liberal myself I think this is a good thing.

I don't think this is some kind of nefarious plot, especially because up until about 35 years ago the mass media were very conservative, as anyone who watched TV in the 50's, 60's and early 70's will remember. It's more a generational change, probably owing to the radicalization of young people by the Vietnam debacle, which had huge knock-on effects with regard to people's view of the legitimacy of the established order.

Now that the internet has largely replaced the structured mass media as a source of information and entertainment, conservatives have an opportunity to try and get their message out. However, it may be too late to shift the culture back to a more traditional and conservative stance, because the internet is a worldwide network and most democratic countries are politically and culturally far to the left of America (and even of American liberals). Thus, the internationalization of information and entertainment may swamp attempts by conservatives to get their message out.

Posted by: P Aaron at December 11, 2012 09:17 AM (IuU4O)

468 Conservativism is largely dead in this country. Our culture has become a liberal one. The media only reflects this as it reflected our conservative culture in the fifties. The wars against abortion, gay marriage and drugs are lost. The Republicans only hope is to turn libertarian and focus on economic issues.

Posted by: Mike at December 11, 2012 10:49 AM (MDMEI)

469 The arts deal in emotion, and thus those in artistic fields will base their politics on emotion.

That leads them to sometimes get it right, and sometimes not.

For example, when it comes to gay rights, exposure by the arts community of the hardship to gays from not having the same rights as heterosexuals has gradually won over the sympathy of the public for gay rights, for which there is no counterargument except "that's the way it's been done in the past".

In contrast, emotional appeals about the suffering associated with human needs not being met by governmental programs present only one facet of the issue of the scope and nature of social programs, which, based only on emotional criteria ought to be infinite, but based on the hard cold facts of fiscal limitations, cannot be.

Posted by: lsjogren at December 11, 2012 11:38 AM (QZzcR)

470 It is not that 'competitors self-select' away from the creative media . . . it's that they know they will - if identified as conservatives (or even moderates) - be fired, vilified, and viewed as non-employable. Remember the boos for Elia Kazan at the Oscars? And he was actually a liberal. Just not a modern, radical one.

The reason people 'self-select' is that NO ONE ELSE WILL EMPLOY THEM! doh. . . until Fox Network employs conservative actors, as well as conservative news employees, this pollution of the culture will continue. Brave actors like Ron Silver or Angie Harmon need to be sought out, featured, and employed by Fox or other open-minded programmers in order to encourage other people in show business to think and express their own minds for a change.

Posted by: david hilton at December 11, 2012 11:46 AM (Gv/00)

471 No, jeremiahbulldog, I agree with your observation that 'this goes for education, too', but disagree entirely with your proposed remedy: "We need more conservatives going into grade school and high school education for exactly the same reasons." This would perpetuate the same beating-our-heads-against-the-wall behaviour that this article is careful to single out as self-defeating. What we need is not to change the people 'going into' education, but the people who will be paying them. We need conservative backers of chairs, fellowships, and university endowments to insist on conservatives being hired on an equal basis. Otherwise, the mere fact that conservative choose to go into education will result in the same dead-end as now: they will be fired; passed over for promotion; totally marginalized. The problem is with the bosses; not with the workers.

Posted by: david hilton at December 11, 2012 11:51 AM (Gv/00)

472
i agree that the conservative movers shakershave basically withdrawn from pop culture, and thatthey need to get back in the game.

the rank and file haswithdrawn also and that's not good either, I'll try to do better, but there isn't much pop culture that holds any interest for me, especially prime-time TV which is simply awful, horrible and unwatchable.

there are always good books out there though and an occasional movie that doesn't make me want to dash my brains out on a brick wall.

maybe I'll start me up aninternet radio station and indulge my passion for old radio shows...

Posted by: Shoey at December 11, 2012 12:11 PM (jdOk/)

473 This just made Real Clear Politics!

Posted by: Iblis at December 11, 2012 12:54 PM (9221z)

474 I was surprised that in all those words the central irony of Hollywood leftism was not mentioned or explored.
Conservatives believe as an article of faith that free markets deliver the best possible results, as opposed to other systems of human organization.
And yet all the gay-friendly, anti-authority, left-wing programming and movies coming out of Hollywood are the results of corporations and investors self-organizing to maximize returns for their shareholders.
Possible responses are
1) Markets uber alles is not a sufficient organizing principal?
2) Somehow the infallibility of "free markets" is distorted by market interventions of some kind?

But to believe in the supremacy of markets and capitalism and yet to be appalled by what those markets produce seems like a contradiction that at least should be admitted, if not explored in detail. My suspicion is that such exploration would create unacceptable cracks in rigid conservative ideology.

Posted by: TommyVee at December 11, 2012 01:15 PM (6VR5I)

475 Conservatives already have the blabby-morons-on-the-radio market locked up. Isn't that enough?

Posted by: Bitter Scribe at December 12, 2012 12:26 PM (tz6Mq)






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