Why Movies Are Awful: An Insider Report

Interesting blog-post from a screenwriter (responsible for The Thing 2, but don't hold that against him.

Most people have heard that it's the "suits" and the process of accommodation of the corporate people's demands that make scripts (and movies) so awful. I heard that, but then I've also heard that's a lot of a crap; that that's an easy line peddled by outsiders.

This guy, on the other hand, says "No, that's actually correct."


That first notes meeting is illuminating. You learn right away who actually read your previous script and who didn’t. You also discover what the other people involved want the movie to be. NOTE: Rarely will everyone want to make the same movie. You’ll get notes like “Can we make it more like [popular movie]?” Or, “This feels like it should be more in the [obscure art film] neighborhood.”

...

Perhaps finally this is the stage where it goes to the top studio execs. You attend another notes session and are tasked with notes you feel you’ve already addressed. Things like, “I don’t know what the characters are feeling,” or “What is this person’s arc and why is it so hard to figure out?”

...

This second full pass is where you’re tested. The biggest problem is realizing that some readers on the studio level don’t understand subtext. Or rather, they get it when they’re seeing a finished film, but with all the scripts they read (or coverage thereof) they have no subtext radar. It all blows by them. (Not every exec is like this, but it’s a common problem, and can sometimes extend to producers and other people in the process.)

About this time, your agent calls again and says: Don’t screw this up. For both of you.

Your new job: Spell out all the things you so artfully seeded through innuendo and subtle suggestion. Now you’re writing things in ALL CAPS and talking about how this is THE TURNING POINT FOR YOUR CHARACTER because she realizes SHE MUST BETRAY HER FRIEND to SAVE HER FAMILY. If you learned how to write from a certain LOST writer, you’ll be doing this already, along with statements like HOLY SHIT, this is the MOST HEARTBREAKING MOMENT WE’VE EVER SEEN.

Reading the draft back to yourself makes your teeth hurt. This isn’t representative of your writing, it’s more like a transcript of some frat boy describing your script to his buddies. And yet this draft goes over like gangbusters at the studio. You are called and thanked by the studio, and then the producer. Once a director/movie star/both get on board, it’s all systems go for this project.

Maybe that work has already been done, in which case, you’re getting notes from those people as well. If an actor is involved, the draft the studio loves to death will rankle the movie star. Why? Because in this draft you’ve written out all the subtext and given the actor no room for them to do their job. Actors hate drafts like this. It’s like a photograph of a starving child in some third-world country holding up a flag that reads “FEEL SAD.”

Movies really have become awful, haven't they? I don't mean politically; sure, there are a lot of liberal zingers put into movies for no very good reason, except to make the filmmakers think they've done something positive with the piece of shit project they're foisting on people.

Hollywood has always made most movies for a juvenile crowd. A producer, I think his name was Zanuck, worked out the logic like this: Girls will see anything boys will see, but boys will not see most things girls will see. Younger kids will see anything that older kids will see, but older kids will not see things made for younger kids. Adults will see most things that older teenagers will see, but older teenagers will not necessarily see things that adults would see. Therefore, the correct money-making demographic to make a movie for is a 17 year old boy.

Even though Hollywood turned out all sorts of juvenile dreck (and be aware, they always did; if older movies seem more adult to you, remember that's largely because only the classics survive and most of the juvenile dreck is forgotten and no longer seen), certainly they've gotten worse and worse about this lately. Virtually every movie has a number in the title-- to avoid this, some sequels and prequels avoid numbering, but even if they avoid that, we still know that X-Men: First Class is X-Men Part 0. (And that movie was halfway decent.) Everything is either a prequel, a sequel, or a remake; every movie made is an attempt at a financially "safe" exploitation of a property that's worked at least once in the past.

And everything is written for that 17 year old boy. The more years that separate me from 17 the more this grates. Almost every script is some kind of coming-of-age story about a young man with limitless potential if only he can learn to [x] (control his emotions, come to peace with his father's death or his living father's authority, etc., etc.). Those are not bad stories, necessarily. A lot of classics are in that mode. But when almost every movie is that sort of Edge-of-17 I-Can't-Wait-To-Find-Out-What-I'll-Be-When-I-Grow-Up power fantasy (competence fantasy, career fantasy, etc.), that's an awful lot of movies with the same basic theme and only the slightest differentiation between them.

Even in the Beach Party Bingo days of the late sixties, Hollywood still put out a decent number of movies made for adults. They weren't literally all for that 17 year old boy. Just most of them, and most of the exploitative ones. But they did attempt to target adult audiences, and produce some movies that weren't all about What I'll Be When I Grow Up but about the problems you face when you have grown up.

It's very hard to name movies made in the last 20 years which are made for adults. You can name a few, but they're few and far between. And they're increasingly mostly small-operation independent movies.

I used to despise independent and foreign movies. I wouldn't see them on principle. But with the major studios just churning out one adolescent power-fantasy after another (and usually poorly done adolescent power-fantasies at that), I am beginning to see the appeal.

Television used to be a vast wasteland of insipid corporate least-common-denominator writing, while movies used to be a notch above that. Now that situation is entirely reversed, and with a vengeance. I still prefer the form of the movie over television (I don't like episodic stories-- I like beginning, middle, and end), but there's little doubt that if you want to write interesting stories that aren't about a boy-man on the cusp of adulthood finding a Power Ring and learning to control his Go For It impulses, you should write for television rather than the movies.

A documentary called American Grindhouse discussed exploitation films. One point, I think made by John Landis, was that despite the low budgets, exploitation films actually offered a writer or director (or, commonly, a writer/director) a great deal of freedom, because so long as one delivered the Exploitation (whether Bikinis, Bikers, Black Revolutionaries, or Blood), the producers did not care at all what you made the story about. Deliver the three or four bits of nudity, shock material, or Current Teenager Fad material and you could otherwise do whatever you wanted.

I get that feeling about TV, now. Most shows are still pretty formulaic (every episode is mostly just a rehash of the basic situation and conflicts in the pilot episode, which, actually, they sort of must be), but you do occasionally see some things you weren't expecting, and hear some dialogue you weren't expecting, on TV.

In the movies, it's all entirely predictable. Almost every studio movie is just an assemblage of things that have worked in other movies for the last 20 years. And as Hollywood's hits are fewer and further between, every movie seems to be rehashing the same Moments That Worked from previous movies. Even in the very small creative space they're working in (movies for 17 year old boys looking to become awesome I Win At Life adults), they're not offering much variation or novelty.

For God's sake, do we really need Ridley Scott's Monopoly-- The Movie of The Game?

It's my guess that, given the ease of distribution via the internet, and plummeting costs of making a movie in the first place (making a cheap movie I mean-- as cheap movies become cheaper, the regular big-budget studio picture explodes in price), we'll see more and more micro-studios pop up, offering low-budget movies (but made by veterans who aren't idiots) offering more "alternative fare," and alternative will usually mean "featuring adults or adult themes." The actor Michael Biehn (Aliens, Terminator) was talking about this sort of thing on Adam Carrola. Although it was a TV show rather than a movie, "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" illustrates this idea -- if your budget is low enough, you have the liberty to do whatever you like, and you might just wind up making something that hasn't been seen sixty three thousand times before.

Posted by: Ace at 12:27 PM



Comments

1 And everything is written for that 17 year old boy


BINGO. Same for TV, but it's written for a 17 year old girl.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at December 04, 2012 12:30 PM (wR+pz)

2 WTF, First? How did that happen?

I never pay for a movie. Saw the stupid Batman movie on a flight from Spain. Did people actually pay to see that and think it was worth seeing?

So fucking trite and formula. I thought I was watch a WWF movie. Same plot, same stupid people.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at December 04, 2012 12:33 PM (wR+pz)

3 Huge swathes of TV are written specifically for women, but over on FX, you'll find things which are written almost exclusively for guys -- It's Always Sunny, Archer, Justified.

If the budget is fairly low you can make stuff for smaller audiences. the bigger the budget, the more you have to make sure "It's for Everybody!" (which means 17 year old boys). A lower budget and you can write it for adults.

Posted by: ace at December 04, 2012 12:33 PM (LCRYB)

4 low budget -

El Mariachi was a fine movie, interesting, well made et cetera.

The remake starring Antonio Banderas sucked beyond measure.

Given the fracturing of the market into segments, eventually there will be a niche for every one.

Except Ace.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 04, 2012 12:33 PM (RuUvx)

5 Eric Heisserer is the writer behind the 2010 reboot of A Nightmare on Elm Street, as well as Final Destination 5 and the 2011 prequel The Thing.

No, I think I will hold that against him.

Coming this fall, Scapegoat IV: Writer for shitty films that everybody knew would be shitty complains it's Not His Fault his movies were shitty.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 12:34 PM (SY2Kh)

6 Yes, but how does this post help my children?

Posted by: Michelle LaVaughn Robinson Obama at December 04, 2012 12:35 PM (sbV1u)

7 There's nice scene right at the beginning in Swordfish where John Travolta's character talks about how creatively bankrupt Hollywood is, all they seem to make nowadays are shit movies that don't even come close to the classics.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:35 PM (GQ8sn)

8 If the budget is fairly low you can make stuff for smaller audiences. the bigger the budget, the more you have to make sure "It's for Everybody!" (which means 17 year old boys). A lower budget and you can write it for adults.

The lower the budget and the more exploitive the material, the better you'll do. If it's on TV you can get it slotted into a late enough time slot that the network would expect it to get relatively low ratings. Give it a genuninely interesting story with good characters, though, and it WILL attract an audience. Make sure the writing is top notch and you'll have a hit that DOESN"T have to appeal to the Michael Bay formula of all flash and no substance.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:36 PM (4df7R)

9 >>>
No, I think I will hold that against him.

bear in mind, he was hired to write those. It's not like he himself came to the studio saying, "I've got a GREAT idea for an Elm Street remake!!!!"

And that's the only shit Hollywood is making, pretty much. It's not like they're hiring people to write something different.

Posted by: ace at December 04, 2012 12:36 PM (LCRYB)

10 I was watching Jurassic Park on Sunday probably for the first time since it came out, and I came to a somewhat shocking conclusion: Steven Spielberg sucks at making movies.

His early stuff could be good (Jaws) and he did have some moments (Schindler's List (he did that, right?)) but I think the Chrystal Skulls outnumber the Lost Arks at this point.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:36 PM (t06LC)

11 TV is great for telling a long, involved story, i.e. a miniseries. Movies really can't do this as easily.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 04, 2012 12:36 PM (9GaPd)

12 Therefore, the correct money-making demographic to make a movie for is a 17 year old boy.

The new paradigm is making movies for 17 year old girls, e.g. Twilight. How much money has that franchise made so far?

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:37 PM (GQ8sn)

13 Pet theory for the juvenilization of the movies: raising the drinking age

When you're in high school or the early years of college, what are your choices for going out? You can't drink legally, so any bar that doesn't like risking huge liability issues for admitting underage kids is closed to you. It seems like the 18+ parties where 18-20 year olds get in with 'x's on their hands to signify they can't drink are increasingly a relic of the past. So what can you do on a weekend night with friends? Either house parties or go to the movies.

I know I went to the movies more before I turned 21 than after I did. And with more the audience composed of people aged 16-20, that puts a premium to appeal to this crowd. If you wonder why comic book movies rule the Hollywood business paradigm, this is why

Posted by: Chris P at December 04, 2012 12:37 PM (LuvqF)

14 Coming this fall, Scapegoat IV: Writer for shitty films that everybody knew would be shitty complains it's Not His Fault his movies were shitty.

The man's got to make a living somehow. If that's what gets him his paycheck, I can't blame him for doing it.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:37 PM (4df7R)

15 Ace,

Ever watched the PBS frontline special "the merchants of cool"?

It would give you a lot of insight into liberalism/Hollywood and it's operations. There was a sequel, but I forget it's name.

Posted by: Hopeless at December 04, 2012 12:37 PM (zLsg3)

16 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 04, 2012 12:38 PM (5DR1j)

17 >>>The new paradigm is making movies for 17 year old girls, e.g. Twilight. How much money has that franchise made so far?

not really, not as far as movies. they do make bunches of movies for 17 year old girls but the bulk of movies (including the ones you've completely forgotten seeing ads for) are still, I think, for 17 year old boys.

Posted by: ace at December 04, 2012 12:38 PM (LCRYB)

18 Damn I thought they had canceled the Monopoly movie.

Posted by: Adam at December 04, 2012 12:39 PM (/YJYi)

19 I I wrote a good screenplay about how Mormnism was an evil, right wing cult vying for world domination - I believe it would get funded. If in post productions we changed Mormonism out with Scientology, would it get axed?

Posted by: Jean at December 04, 2012 12:39 PM (BNuW6)

20 Every now and then I go back to the review for the second Transformers movie called "Michael Bay makes an Art Film." That about sums it up.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:39 PM (t06LC)

21 Reminds me of the story about the blonde Polish beauty who came to Hollywood to become an actress but got nowhere. Shewas sleeping with awriter.
There was the recent release of "Hope Creek" which was made for post-menapausal women.
As to old classics, just saw "The Wake of the Red Witch" on DVD starring John Wayne and Lon Cheney. Now that was a great movie!

Posted by: Whitehall at December 04, 2012 12:40 PM (FmPSC)

22 So, guys sit in a room and try to figure out how to make movies like other movies?

Well, that explains a lot.

No wonder I stopped going to the theater 20 years ago.

Posted by: © Sponge at December 04, 2012 12:41 PM (UK9cE)

23 As long as the Coen bros. keep at it, at least there'll be a littlesomething interestingfrom time to time.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at December 04, 2012 12:41 PM (SCcgT)

24 The new paradigm is making movies for 17 year old girls, e.g. Twilight. How much money has that franchise made so far?
Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:37 PM (GQ8sn)


I think a lot of this is less about appealing to a broader audience and more about movie recidivism (if you'll pardon the term). Teenage girls will go see movies with their favorite actors and actresses in them multiple times. I used to do this all the time. I saw "Speed" four times in theaters when I was 14. Do guys in that same age bracket go see "The Avengers" or "Dark Knight Rises" four or five times?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:41 PM (4df7R)

25 A lower budget and you can write it for adults.
Posted by: ace at December 04, 2012 12:33 PM (LCRYB)

_______

Yes, that's true. That's what made some of the "b" movies from the 50's, early 60's so much fun. Characters can say stuff in the old low-budget sci-fi movies they would never be allowed to say in Official Movies. Monsters from the id! I miss them.

Posted by: Cricket at December 04, 2012 12:41 PM (DrC22)

26 @19
If you would have turned the script in a year ago and could have dropped it for an opening in September, that mormon movie would have been green lit and you could have gotten Clooney (who, by the way is a shitty actor)

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:41 PM (t06LC)

27 not really, not as far as movies. they do make bunches of movies for 17
year old girls but the bulk of movies (including the ones you've
completely forgotten seeing ads for) are still, I think, for 17 year old
boys.


Like Transformers? How many times can they go back to that well? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm willing to bet the Twilight movies have made more money and have been more profitable than the Transformer movies.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:42 PM (GQ8sn)

28 But when almost every movie is that sort of Edge-of-17
I-Can't-Wait-To-Find-Out-What-I'll-Be-When-I-Grow-Up power fantasy
(competence fantasy, career fantasy, etc.), that's an awful lot of
movies with the same basic theme and only the slightest differentiation
between them.


I am really tired of the messiah trope that's often included with that. "You are Teh One~! Teh One we have been waiting for!"

Every damned sci-fi/fantasy movie has this thing. Harry Pooper, The Matrix, Twilight (gag), Eragon (double gag), Star Wars prequels (triple gag).

As a plot device it couldn't be more worn. As part of moral instruction, it's just horribly misleading. If you aren't born Teh One, you aren't able to do squat in life.

Stop with the f'in messiahs already!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 04, 2012 12:43 PM (JEpGb)

29 Movies and TV have not switched and movies are still a cut above TV. It's just that now movies are "a vast wasteland of insipid corporate least-common-denominator writing" while TV is fully embracing Honey Boo Boo retardation.

Posted by: Darth Chipmunk at December 04, 2012 12:43 PM (cRIVA)

30 :::It's very hard to name movies made in the last 20 years which are made for adults. You can name a few, but they're few and far between. And they're increasingly mostly small-operation independent movies.:::

Inception and Fight Club come to mind as two large-budget movies written exclusively for adults.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 04, 2012 12:43 PM (5JmKY)

31 @25

And it supplied us with a decade of MST3K material. God I miss that show.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (t06LC)

32 >>>Do guys in that same age bracket go see "The Avengers" or "Dark Knight Rises" four or five times?

they famously used to-- that's what powered Star Wars to break box office records. A lot of people saw it, and a lot of people -- younger boys -- saw it three, four, six, ten times.

I don't know if they do any more.

Posted by: ace at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (LCRYB)

33 Huh! It took me 31 posts to read that.

Posted by: Cliff in TX at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (9ppEA)

34 Steven Schwartz one recalled a network suit that wanted Gilligan to find a baby dinosaur on Gilligan's Island....

Posted by: Adriane at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (gh+mp)

35 Do guys in that same age bracket go see "The Avengers" or "Dark Knight Rises" four or five times?

In the past maybe, but with tickets costing $10-$12 a pop there's less of that now. Besides, that's what the internet is for.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (GQ8sn)

36 I was going to disagree with movies being done for 17 year old boys because of the popularity of the "Twilight" franchise, then I remembered all the teenage boys walking around in skinny jeans and I realized that even this franchise was made for 17 year old boys.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (Zd/NW)

37 And it supplied us with a decade of MST3K material. God I miss that show.
Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (t06LC)


Rifftrax, my friend. Rifftrax.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:44 PM (4df7R)

38 Inception and Fight Club come to mind as two large-budget movies written exclusively for adults.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 04, 2012 12:43 PM (5JmKY)

Inception was the shit. Had to get in before the H8ers.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:45 PM (t06LC)

39 Best low budget movies? Couch, actor, actress. No dialog. Lots of action.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at December 04, 2012 12:45 PM (mDN3d)

40 bear in mind, he was hired to write those. It's not like he himself
came to the studio saying, "I've got a GREAT idea for an Elm Street
remake!!!!"


Yet, more often that not what makes these movies shitty is the writing.

Did the studios come to him and say "We want you to write another Final Destination sequel because it'll be easy money for us. But don't do too good a job writing it. Give it a shitty plot, OK?"

He'd be a bit more credible if he had at least one good movie to his name. His own experience comes exclusively from writing for shit movies. Question is, would a writer who has worked on good movies agree with him?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 12:45 PM (SY2Kh)

41 Then again, genius is not necessarily rewarded.

If I had a chance to do "Citizen Kane" all over, I would put in Tits, More Tits, Deep Focus Tits, and Tits.

Tits.

Posted by: Orson Wells at December 04, 2012 12:45 PM (RuUvx)

42 Inception and Fight Club come to mind as two large-budget movies written exclusively for adults.

Leo and Brad? Teenage girls will go see them.

And look who else was backing them up: Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Ed Norton.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:46 PM (GQ8sn)

43 There's a great movie called "The TV Set" with Sigourney Weaver (2006)
that chronicles a writers run through the Hollywood guantlet of stupidity.

It's about a TV writer (obviously) but it mirrors thae same problems this guy is talking about.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 12:46 PM (KXm42)

44 Ace,

Watch the PBS frontline episode "the merchants of cool"

There is a marketing archetype, "the mook" that embodies what you speak of.

Advertisers and democrats build their entire business around keeping people trapped in perpetual adolescence because it's the only way they'll keep believing that "buying this product!" will fulfill desires, etc.

It's free to watch on YouTube, and all about these things in the entertainment industry. It's a really good watch.

Posted by: Hopeless at December 04, 2012 12:46 PM (AjH+Y)

45 It's THESE fuckers that injected that stupid alien in The Flintstones and ruined that genius.

Fuck them.

Posted by: © Sponge at December 04, 2012 12:46 PM (UK9cE)

46 I've been writing (and sometimes acting) for 30 years. There are many or reasons as to why movies suck and it would require quite a few pages to go into.

There are a few key things that I think are important factors, yet obviously not the sole reasons.

Hollywood's penchant for wanting to produce huge budget blockbuster pictures like "Jaws" and "Star Wars."

Studio executives who are MBA's and lawyers, but have zero creative experience of talent.

Wanting to market to males 11-23 since they buy the most tickets.

Now you have a perfect storm/vicious cycle of creating dreck. When a movie costs upwards of $100 million, it means it must make at least double that amount just to break even. Hence, the studio will make sure that the director will take NO creative chances and make something totally vanilla and predictable.

There are only about 15-20,000 screens in the US, and since most major films release to at least 2,500, there is fierce competition to book into theaters. Hence, very few small films have an outlet to be seen.

Lower budget films now have budgets no higher than about $6-8 million. Studio execs cannot justify spending $40-$50 million to promote a film that costs that much, so they don't get made.


These are just random thoughts, and since I am at work, I don't really have the time to make it cogent. Perhaps I can write an essay and Ace may allow it to be posted on its own.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 04, 2012 12:46 PM (vCK/R)

47
Disappearing spaces again. This site tries to take posts into Cormac McCarthy land: "he took from the mochila his blanketlined duckingcoat..."

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at December 04, 2012 12:46 PM (SCcgT)

48 I didn't read the post, what movie was reviewed?

Sarc. I don't watch many movies because most of them suck, and I'm almost always disappointed, but I thought Get Shorty was pretty good. A movie about making a movie lol. The last movie I paid to watch in a theater was Real Steel, the movie version of Rock'em Sock'em Robots which I thought was pretty good too.

Posted by: NC Ref at December 04, 2012 12:47 PM (dVJLS)

49 >>>I am really tired of the messiah trope that's often included with that. "You are Teh One~! Teh One we have been waiting for!"

you know what's funny? If you watch Harry Potter, the FIRST thing he finds out is that he's a wizard. You'd think that would be enough. But no, within the first 40 minutes of discovering he's a wizard he then discovers he's the Wizard Prophesized to Defeat All Evil.

Same thing with the Green Lantern. It's not enough to find out you're MERELY a Green Lantern; no, you have to find out further that you're destined to be the Greatest Green Lantern in all the Ten Thousand Years of the Green Lantern Corps.

Really? Just finding out you're a wizard, or Green Lantern (or werewolf, or vampire, or whatever power-trip) isn't enough? You have to also be The Best of this elite secret group?

Just a funny thing. I'm not really knocking it. It makes sense. Just seems to be gilding the lily something awful.

Posted by: ace at December 04, 2012 12:47 PM (LCRYB)

50 Leo and Brad? Teenage girls will go see them.

Girls would go see "Fight Club" because of Brad Pitt's abs. They'd spend the whole movie wrinkling their noses and going, "Eww, gross!" whenever there was blood splattering about. I know this because I know these women.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:47 PM (4df7R)

51 I was into home movies too.

Posted by: zombie bob crane at December 04, 2012 12:48 PM (jPVBi)

52 Inception and Fight Club come to mind as two large-budget movies written exclusively for adults.

There Will Be Blood. Anything by the Coen Bros.

Yeah yeah yeah I know everyone hates TWBB. I love it. Kiss my grits.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 12:48 PM (KXm42)

53 "The King's Speech." Best movie I've seen in a long time. No teenagers in the audience.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:49 PM (4df7R)

54 @49

GI Joe. Those fuckers are drafted into this spec ops group upon which they set all the records for badassery ever recorded within thier first day of training. Because I guess.

Of course, that is the least of my complaints about that steaming pile of shit.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:49 PM (t06LC)

55 I thought Porky's Revenge was a scathing commentary on the corrupting influence of gambling in amateur athletics.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 04, 2012 12:49 PM (5JmKY)

56 The same situation is taking place in hearth. If you want crappy information and terrible service, and if you want to continue getting sicker and sicker until you are bedridden and spend the last few years of your (shorter than necessary) life in pain, then you should definitely stay in the mainstream of health.

You should definitely take all the pills your Dr prescribes without question. You should consult the USDA, ADA, AHA, etc., etc., and eat the diet they tell you is healthy. You should do what they say, they have authority on the matter.

The film industry is no different. It is a centralized information delivery system that is populated by talentless hacks.

Originality, competence, utility, and results are threats in these Old World structures.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 04, 2012 12:49 PM (J4gw3)

57
I was into home movies too.


Posted by: zombie bob crane at December 04, 2012 12:48 PM (jPVBi)


Almost a thread winner there.

Posted by: © Sponge at December 04, 2012 12:50 PM (UK9cE)

58 Appropriate for the last thread, but since the horde abandons threads like a red headed three leg stepchild when something new and shiny comes along...


http://tinyurl.com/b38nrmv


Jovan Belcher’s teammates on Kansas City Chiefs refuse to blame guns for horrifying murder-suicide

'If you have daughters, you should (have a gun),' defensive lineman Shaun Smith said. 'You have to protect yourself. You work so hard to get to where you at, I'll be damned if I’ll just let someone take it from me.'



Posted by: RWC at December 04, 2012 12:50 PM (fWAjv)

59 I am really tired of the messiah trope that's often included with that. "You are Teh One~! Teh One we have been waiting for!"

To some degree, this is unavoidable in Movies. Big team movies (like the stuff Joss Whedon does) can mostly avoid it. But anything that has a single "hero" has to have a reason for that character to be "the hero."

That reason can be self driven ("anyone" could have been Batman or Iron Man), or not self driven. If not self driven, then it's "the messiah" all over again.

Now, that can be more or less egregious. For instance, Harry Potter and The Matrix highlight the self-sacrificial nature of the Hero, especially at the "very" end. Eragon (what I could stomach of it) and the Star Wars prequels are more about the protagonist being the one-and-only-born-to-be-the-chosen-one who never makes hard choices, and never has to be willing to sacrifice himself. Those are really freaking annoying.

Where it's hard to avoid in movies that focus on one character, it's much easier to avoid in TV, where you're more likely to have a good ensemble cast in the first place.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 04, 2012 12:50 PM (5DR1j)

60 Ace, this is completely OT, but please tell me you'll do a post about Dana Milbank's stupid WaPo column today? The one in which he basically says, "Hey, so who else is surprised that Obama's promises are just words?"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:50 PM (4df7R)

61 James O'Barr, the creator of 'The Crow' graphic novels, once related how he went with his friend, the late Brandon Lee, to their first big Hollywood suit meeting to sell the concept of a 'Crow' movie and get money for production. Brandon was a fan of the comic book and closely identified with the Eric Draven character, so it was more or less his (and his late father's) clout that got them the meeting. O'Barr was a stranger to the whole process.

Anyway, at one point in the meeting, one of the suits says, 'Hey! I've got an idea! Let's cast Michael Jackson as The Crow!' Both O'Barr and Brandon Lee burst out laughing--laughing, that is, until they saw the guy was serious. O'Barr threatened to walk out then and there but Lee managed to insert some sanity into the proceedings.

That story sums up Hollywood, at least for me. I keep thinking of something Stuart Brand, the guy who originated the Whole Earth Catalogue, said a few decades ago: "Imagine if TV and movies were really good." Truth is, they aren't, not really. We're just accustomed to mediocre and call some of the less mediocre 'great' because we just don't know any better.

Posted by: troyriser at December 04, 2012 12:50 PM (vtiE6)

62 Open question to all morons and ettes:

What was the last, really good movie you saw?



Me: Memento.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:51 PM (GQ8sn)

63 I wanted to like There Will be Blood, but nothing really happens. It was a long set piece showing how a guy who starts out as an asshole ends up as an asshole who kills a dude with a bowling pin.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:51 PM (t06LC)

64 I like the stuff with giant ants. I mean... come on, GIANT F*CKING ANTS. The juxtaposition just blows my mind.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at December 04, 2012 12:51 PM (4QUIa)

65 Movies started really sucking around the time they stopped doing opening credit sequences.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at December 04, 2012 12:52 PM (4QUIa)

66 This experience carries over in other industries. Frankly, I believe it has to do with the relatively low-level of peoples intelligence, their proclivity to avoid anything resembling hard-work, an education that was lacking in just about everything (save sex, drugs and alcohol) and the generally boring, inept, unaccomplished nature of their being.

I have people come in for jobs that you would never knew attended college. To the point you start to wonder of their credentials are fraudulent. Basic math, writing skills and the ability to skillfully carry a conversation that doesn't include gratuitous, nonsensical bullshitting are no existent.

I believe it's a byproduct of a society that's become lazy, an education system more interested in passing people than teaching, unrealistic expectations set be overbearing, unreasonable pushy parents who don't know or care their kid is really a dumb-ass, juvenile delinquent with no morals who likes to doink the neighbors cat and has been pushed along simply because people don't want to deal with their bullshit or don't give a shit because they are also inept- yet they think he is really Einstein reborn with the potential to do anything.

The human race; it's only a matter of time before we too are extinct.

Posted by: marcus at December 04, 2012 12:52 PM (GGCsk)

67 List of some of my favorite movies (in no particular order)

The Game (w/ Michael Douglas)
Memento
District 9
Casino Royal
Batman Begins
Crimson Tide
A Beautiful Mind
Black Hawk Down

Posted by: Joshua at December 04, 2012 12:52 PM (o4CbT)

68 Another problem with modern movies is the effect of overseas sales. Since most of the revenues for movies today come from overseas, the movies are made to not offend and are dumb-downed for Hollywood's new target audience.

Posted by: Dr Spank at December 04, 2012 12:53 PM (4cRnj)

69 Inception and Fight Club come to mind as two large-budget movies written exclusively for adults.


I've got to disagree with you on Fight Club. It was a movie that sold (whether it delivered it or not is a different question) mindless violence for the sake of mindless violence. The 17-year-old male audience went in droves.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 04, 2012 12:53 PM (5DR1j)

70 Posted by: ace at December 04, 2012 12:47 PM (LCRYB)

Old fantasy book I read years ago... I think it was 'Whose Song was Sung' or somthing which had a great premise...

It was the story of the Minion... the Wing Man... the guy who helps the hero.... but with a twist.... HE was the one who was doing almost everything, while the hero would get the credit...

Always liked the premise...

Its like the Babylon 5 episode that features a couple of Low Level Maintenence guys... the Main story is happening in the background, while they go around fixing stuff.... always liked that one...

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2012 12:53 PM (lZBBB)

71 ace, write a screenplay on the blog. once a week threads to develop charachters and story. collect weekly thread ideas and incorporate into your running outline. suggestion- comedy aimed at young people revealing leftist absurdity.

Posted by: choogle at December 04, 2012 12:53 PM (N9r8M)

72 What was the last, really good movie you saw?

Gymkata.

_

It was the first, best expression of a young man's journey of using the skill of gymnastics with the kill of karate.
_

Posted by: Orson Wells at December 04, 2012 12:54 PM (RuUvx)

73 Basically, marketing killed movies. If your movie doesn't have action figures or a hot band in the soundtrack, good luck trying to get anything like a good budget.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 04, 2012 12:54 PM (i0App)

74
After reading that screenwriters essay about all of the different people involved giving all different kinds of advice about what should go in/stay out of a movie, one phrase from my youth came to mind:
Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians!
And yes, movies(read: Hollywood) do suck nowadays. There are only 3 or 4 during a year that even tempt me to go to a theatre. As a kid I would go to at least one movie a week and sometimes more.

Posted by: phil mupp at December 04, 2012 12:54 PM (VDovR)

75 For God's sake, do we really need Ridley Scott's Monopoly-- The Movie of The Game?


Hopefully it will star Taylor Kisch. He needs to focus exclusively on board game related movies until Hungry Hungry Hippos gets made.

Posted by: taylork at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (ppNDn)

76 Its like the Babylon 5 episode that features a couple of Low Level Maintenence guys... the Main story is happening in the background, while they go around fixing stuff.... always liked that one...
Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2012 12:53 PM (lZBBB)

Still one of my top 5 favorite Babylon 5 episodes. Genius.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (4df7R)

77 62,

13 assassins.

If you know enough about Japanese culture, the way honor/social status operate for determening who is permitted to challenge other people's honor, etc, it is utterly brilliant.

The sepuku is beautifully done. I cried at the end because the men's honor was so amazing. Life is short. Glory and honor are forever.

Posted by: Hopeless at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (WFZEf)

78 I think Nolan puts some time and thought into what he does.
Momento, The Prestiege, Dark Knight, and Inception are great, Batman Begins, TDKR were good.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (t06LC)

79 The man's got to make a living somehow. If that's what gets him his paycheck, I can't blame him for doing it.

I don't blame him for taking the job. But if your cooking skills are such that you can't get a better job than fry cook at Applebees, don't come to me complaining about how bad chain restaurants suck.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (SY2Kh)

80 There have been a number of HBO series that surpass anything I have seen in the movies. Rome and Deadwood immediately come to mind. They were both made for adults. I just finished reading the Hot Kid by Elmore Leonard that I think is the basis for Justified, another very fine TV series. Noticed in the notes that two fo his books were made into very good films, Get Shorty and Out of Sight(the only good movie George Clooney ever made.) Maybe it is that there just aren't a lot of good writers out there with a new idea in their heads.

Posted by: Sharon at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (DtEq4)

81 Oh geez, a Monopoly movie would be Occupy Mr. Moneybags, wouldn't it?

Posted by: Shoot Me at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (qiXMt)

82 My only point of disagreement is the "17 year old" part. I would say 13 is far closer to the mark. Also, a small nit: the Beach Blanket films were mid-Sixties.

Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (IlZPo)

83 Nobody appreciates real art such as good writing today. People are mostly just not that smart or interesting.

Posted by: marcus at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (GGCsk)

84 How the hell did that comment come out underlined? First, it was supposed to be italics, and second, just WTF?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (4df7R)

85 Along with crappy movies, we plagued by crappy movie reviews.

Posted by: Assburger w/Cheese at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (yn6XZ)

86 The Cracked site coughed up "John Dies At The End" as the result of an online ongoing project. It became a book and is in production as a movie.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (RuUvx)

87 Sturgeon's Law: 90% of science fiction is CRUD. But then, 90% of everything is CRUD.

Posted by: Adriane at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (gh+mp)

88 "The King's Speech." Best movie I've seen in a long time. No teenagers in the audience.

How could you like a movie about a richwelfare family that has no obligations or responsibilities to society!!eleventytard!1!1@!!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (NF2Bf)

89 72 What was the last, really good movie you saw?

Gymkata.

It was the first, best expression of a young man's journey of using the skill of gymnastics with the kill of karate.
_
Posted by: Orson Wells at December 04, 2012 12:54 PM (RuUvx)


Jim Carter.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (vCK/R)

90 Its like the Babylon 5 episode that features a couple of Low Level
Maintenence guys... the Main story is happening in the background, while
they go around fixing stuff.... always liked that one...

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2012 12:53 PM (lZBBB)



Still one of my top 5 favorite Babylon 5 episodes. Genius.



A View From The Gallery


I guess if we're going to include scifi tv eps, I gotta say "By The Pale Moonlight" as one of the best. Tight writing, tension, plot twists, and awesome character acting.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (GQ8sn)

91 Hopefully it will star Taylor Kisch. He needs to focus exclusively on board game related movies until Hungry Hungry Hippos gets made.
Posted by: taylork at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (ppNDn)

Already in production. I hear Rosanne Barr and Rosie O'Donnel are angling hard for the title rolls.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (t06LC)

92 Movies have turned into Rap music.

Posted by: nip at December 04, 2012 12:57 PM (11Tdq)

93 Along with crappy movies, we plagued by crappy movie reviews.

Most movies that come out these days, my interest in them is largely determined by how badly I want to see them riffed by Rifftrax. Seriously. It's the one and only reason I would ever watch "The Happening."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:57 PM (4df7R)

94 Favorite movie?

"Stalag 17"


That and "The Godfather"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 04, 2012 12:57 PM (vCK/R)

95 Why Movies Are Awful: An Insider Report


Three words: Not Enough Green Screen

Posted by: George Lucas at December 04, 2012 12:58 PM (QKKT0)

96 Han shot first. FTW.

Posted by: nip at December 04, 2012 12:58 PM (11Tdq)

97 How could you like a movie about a richwelfare family that has no obligations or responsibilities to society!!eleventytard!1!1@!!
Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (NF2Bf)


lol!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:58 PM (4df7R)

98 Is this the movie review for Django Unchained, Unleashed, Unshackled, or whatever the hell it is?

Posted by: Fritz at December 04, 2012 12:58 PM (/ZZCn)

99 > 72 What was the last, really good movie you saw?
<

12 O'clock High - Gregory Peck.

I am totally serious BTW.

Posted by: marcus at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (GGCsk)

100 Oh...and I forgot one more... Galaxy Quest

Posted by: Joshua at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (o4CbT)

101 I've got to disagree with you on Fight Club. It was a movie that sold (whether it delivered it or not is a different question) mindless violence for the sake of mindless violence. The 17-year-old male audience went in droves.::::

That may be how it was packaged and sold, but that's not what it was about.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (5JmKY)

102
If you learned how to write from a certain LOST writer, you’ll be doing this already...

Oh snap!

Who's he talking about? JJ Abrams?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (jUytm)

103 @93
I bet the Twilight Rifftrax is amazing. BTW, my wife won't let me see them with her anymore (Oh Hell Yes) because I make fun of them too much during the movie.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (t06LC)

104
They should ban guns in movies. Except Law and Order, cause that's nbc.

Posted by: Bob Costas at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (n/ubI)

105 12 O'clock High - Gregory Peck.

I am totally serious BTW.



How old are you?

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (GQ8sn)

106 Is this the movie review for Django Unchained, Unleashed, Unshackled, or whatever the hell it is?
Posted by: Fritz at December 04, 2012 12:58 PM (/ZZCn)


I dearly want to see how well or poorly that movie does based on Jamie Foxx's messiah worship of Teh One.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (4df7R)

107 Posted by: Sharon at December 04, 2012 12:55 PM (DtEq4)

Liked the first season of 'Hell on Wheels' too...

Waitin for the second season to be on the web now...

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (lZBBB)

108 Otis,

Watch "the merchants of cool", it's about the marketing archetype "the mook". Fucking fascinating.

Posted by: Hopeless at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (WFZEf)

109 The problem with modern movies is liberal jackbags and their stupid moral relativism. Other than the nice white suburban guy next door who's actually an insane killer or the rich white guy with money who is incredibly selfish, no one wants to tell a story because that might mean showing someone to be evil, and if anyone besides a faceless corporation or cartoon or comic book character is truly evil, that means we actually need sh*t like guns and war. Also we might offend someone who isn't white.

F*ck them. F*ck them all. F*ck Casper Gomez. And f*ck the f*cking Diaz brothers. I bury those cockaroaches.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (4QUIa)

110 Saw that 'The Hobbit' with my lord and savior at the WH. Sucked ass! All ghey and shit! I got a cool new movie coming out and you racististic crackers best see it! Foxx out.

Posted by: Jamie Foxx at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (ypzqs)

111 I want to see a sequel of rock'm sock'm robots!

Posted by: Bender Bending Rodríguez at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (YKUmW)

112 Who's he talking about? JJ Abrams?

Most likely Damon Lindelof.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (GQ8sn)

113 >105
12 O'clock High - Gregory Peck.

I am totally serious BTW.


How old are you?<

Not that old.

Do you realize that film is so good it is still being used in military training for leadership?

That a real movie. One that stands the test of time.

Posted by: marcus at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (GGCsk)

114 Dude! I was just asked to be be the moderator for our HS Archery club. That's pretty sweet...although I can't do it because I've got too much going on with my other jobs.

But I volunteered to be an "assistant moderator" when I had time, and made a pledge to myself to not push either longbows OR crossbows, but let the students decide on their own which they prefer.

Posted by: NC Ref at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (dVJLS)

115 I liked Secondhand Lions come to think of it. But it had Robert Duvall and Michael Caine in it. I think I would pay money to see them read the instructions for setting up an Ikea desk.

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 01:01 PM (t06LC)

116 Best squat movies.

Remo Williams The Adventure Begins
Big Trouble In Little China

Really off wall

Ice Pirates
Eat And Run
The Toxic Avenger
Dark Star

Posted by: minometer at December 04, 2012 01:01 PM (PwwAS)

117 That may be how it was packaged and sold, but that's not what it was about.

I agree. It was a surprisingly good movie. But it was sold to the 17 year old male demographic. Which is why it was green-lit in the first place.

To a lesser extent, Inception was the same way. The slight difference being that, from the promos, you could tell that Inception was going to be something that tried to bend your brain. Fight Club was sold on the quote, "I want you to hit me as hard as you can."

And, face it, who doesn't want to hit Brad Pitt in the face, as hard as you can?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 04, 2012 01:01 PM (5DR1j)

118 IIRC, "The King's Speech" was the last movie I thought of for days afterword.

Posted by: Baldy at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (opS9C)

119 Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 12:56 PM (GQ8sn)

May I submit for your approval, 'The Ring with the Red Velvet Ropes'....

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (lZBBB)

120 But it had Robert Duvall and Michael Caine in it. I think I would pay
money to see them read the instructions for setting up an Ikea desk.


YOU WERE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BLOW THE BLOODY DOORS OFF!

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (GQ8sn)

121
Corollary to the 17 y/o boy rule: Girls who put out will be taken to whatever damn movie they want.

Posted by: Wodeshed at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (a9L+B)

122 50 years ago, here is a sample of some classic films from 1962:

Lawrence of Arabia, The Longest Day, What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?,
The Music Man, Dr. No, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance,
How the West Was Won, Advise and Consent, Birdman of Alcatraz, Cape Fear,
Days of Wine and Roses, Lolita, The Manchurian Candidate, The Miracle Worker,
Requiem for a Heavyweight, Ride the High Country.

The decline is incredible.

Posted by: Fed Up. at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (WnjLc)

123 A Comment On The Uncertainty of Fortune and Our Ultimate Mortality

Posted by: The Sign Held By Death In The First Draft of The Seventh Seal at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (QKKT0)

124 I don't even go once a year anymore. The way the critics are attacking Bilbo, it must be good. The critics never like anything that is remotely worth a damn.

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (NIZHJ)

125 My modern criteria for if a movie is good is how awesome the villain is.

Shitty villain (or worse, no villain) = shitty story.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (5PkZK)

126 I bet the Twilight Rifftrax is amazing. BTW, my wife won't let me see them with her anymore (Oh Hell Yes) because I make fun of them too much during the movie.
Posted by: Jollyroger at December 04, 2012 12:59 PM (t06LC)


Oh God, hilarious. You have no idea. Your wife would hate them. lol!

I spent the entirety of "The Day After Tomorrow" (which I saw in theaters for some obscure reason) laughing my ass off. Everyone around me was deadly serious, and I could not keep my shit together. When the wolves attacked -- clearly having been starved by the Bronx Zoo staff, because why else would they be hunting humans after less than 24 hours on the loose? -- I lost it completely and had to put my coat over my head to try and muffle the laughter.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (4df7R)

127 ace, write a screenplay on the blog. once a week threads to develop characters and story. collect weekly thread ideas and incorporate into
your running outline.

But only three words at a time.

Posted by: HQ Standards Board at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM (jPVBi)

128 "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia"

I have not seen this show, is it worth seeing?

Posted by: chemjeff at December 04, 2012 01:03 PM (m/eXi)

129 None of you actually read the post before you commented.

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:03 PM (NIZHJ)

130 I suggest this the other day, Ace.

Rip off AHS and get an assemble cast, write a bunch of disjointed scenes tied together by sex, violence, and horror, and voila! success!

Now, I don't mean rip it totally off, but the doesn't make a shit of sense genre really sells.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:03 PM (e/Cti)

131
I lost it completely and had to put my coat over my head to try and muffle the laughter.

***

That was me during the preview of the new Matt Damon anti-fracking movie.

Posted by: Wodeshed at December 04, 2012 01:03 PM (a9L+B)

132
Maybe they can mix it up a little bit and have some hot shot musician (Kenny Loggins comes to mind) domovie soundtracks?

Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 04, 2012 01:04 PM (Nfpnr)

133 I agree. It was a surprisingly good movie. But it was sold to the 17 year old male demographic. Which is why it was green-lit in the first place.

How do you know the movie was sold to 17 year old boys, even if it was made for adults (based on an adult novel)?

Immediately after the movie came out, all kinds of high school "fight clubs" started springing up all over the place, because they thought it was cool. And a good way to get great abs.

Message Utterly And Totally Not Received.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:04 PM (4df7R)

134 The Life of Pi strikes me as an adult movie in theaters now. I think it is thinly veiled propaganda for atheism, but my conservative dad disagrees with me.

Although there are tons of stupid movies out there geared toward teenage boys, Hollywood studios do market to other demographics. Meryl Streep gets a lot of work because she brings in women over 40 to movies like "It's Complicated" and "Julia and Julia."

Posted by: Galadriel at December 04, 2012 01:04 PM (xG0vx)

135 I saw the new 'Hobbit' trailer, and I'm already bored. It's always the same thing: crashing swords andquarterstaffs, bristling beards, rain/snowstorms,and incessantly punctuated by smartassy wisecracks. Nine hours of this? The only thing that faintly tempted me to go see it in the theatre was Richard Armitage as Thorin, but weariness won out. I'll wait until the entire thing is out on video and even then I'll probably wait until the Rifftrax guys take it on before getting a cheap copy. I expect by the time Jackson released Part 3 it'll be as bloated and ridiculous as 'Return of the King', and I'm not going to pay money again for his self-indulgent crapola.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at December 04, 2012 01:04 PM (FkH4y)

136 Dude! I was just asked to be be the moderator for our HS Archery club.
That's pretty sweet...although I can't do it because I've got too much
going on with my other jobs.


Moderator? Your HS combined the Debate Club and Archery Club? That's hardcore.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 01:04 PM (SY2Kh)

137
To some degree, this is unavoidable in Movies.
Big team movies (like the stuff Joss Whedon does) can mostly avoid it.
But anything that has a single "hero" has to have a reason for that
character to be "the hero."

That reason can be self driven
("anyone" could have been Batman or Iron Man), or not self driven. If
not self driven, then it's "the messiah" all over again.

Now,
that can be more or less egregious. For instance, Harry Potter and The
Matrix highlight the self-sacrificial nature of the Hero, especially at
the "very" end. Eragon (what I could stomach of it) and the Star Wars
prequels are more about the protagonist being the
one-and-only-born-to-be-the-chosen-one who never makes hard choices, and
never has to be willing to sacrifice himself. Those are really freaking
annoying.

Where it's hard to avoid in movies that focus on one
character, it's much easier to avoid in TV, where you're more likely to
have a good ensemble cast in the first place.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 04, 2012 12:50 PM (5DR1j)

Yeah but Whedon falls for this also. In "Serenity" the chick with the huge forehead turns out to be the "savior" of them all against the Reavers.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 04, 2012 01:05 PM (Zd/NW)

138 129 - Why would we want to read a smart military blog's take on why movies suck?

Sheesh!

Posted by: Bender Bending Rodríguez at December 04, 2012 01:05 PM (YKUmW)

139 122-Damn. Painful.

Posted by: nip at December 04, 2012 01:05 PM (11Tdq)

140 The other part of the equation is that movie tickets now can cost upwards of $20 if you want IMAX, 3d and all that other crap.

I had lost power for a few days after the derecho struck and decided to go see Prometheus just to sit in an air conditioned room for a few hours. Prior to watching it, we ate and I couldn't come to terms with paying $35 for that movie (no lie, $35 for two tickets).

I went home and sat in the dark and heat for a few hours and I still don't regret that decision.

Posted by: taylork at December 04, 2012 01:05 PM (ppNDn)

141 Korean Movies for me, they seem to be more gritty like the "the man from nowhere" and "Chaser". I have noticed in Korean movies and some TV (Vampire Prosecutor) of a theme of Organ stealing. I would also check out Memories of Murder another good one.

Posted by: Patrick at December 04, 2012 01:05 PM (6WpNC)

142 I have not seen this show, is it worth seeing?

It's pretty funny. Some of it may not be to your liking (gross potty humor), but some of the situations the characters find themselves in are pretty funny. The child molester ep is pretty good.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:05 PM (GQ8sn)

143 I like "The League" more than "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia"

Posted by: Dr Spank at December 04, 2012 01:05 PM (4cRnj)

144 I have not seen this show, is it worth seeing?

Yes. And you've just earned 10 AoSHQ demerits.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 01:06 PM (SY2Kh)

145 136 You have 2 minutes and 4 arrows to respond.

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:06 PM (NIZHJ)

146 Going contrary here.

Saw Argo,Skyfall, Flight,Lincoln,Hope Springs, Anna Karenina,and have seen countless little kid moves in the last year. Plan to see the film version of Les Mis at Xmas.Seems like I saw a movie every other weekend in the past couple of years that no 17 year old boy would be caught dead at. A lot of them were good.

But I am a sucker for period pieces, and TV gave me Hell on Wheels and Copper this year [Copper ended up being rather lame; I kept thinking the overacting that popped up as the season went on was done on purpose, andthere was some surprise lurking... instead, it was just overacting). Still not Deadwood, but what is?

Posted by: The other coyote at December 04, 2012 01:06 PM (yK44T)

147
I have a script, tentatively titled: Brony With a Gun.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:06 PM (e/Cti)

148
When I was 17 there was one chick flick that I really liked. Flashdance. At least 5 minutes of it anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILWSp0m9G2U

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 04, 2012 01:06 PM (n/ubI)

149 There's a whole YouTube series of "Honest Trailers" that are both hilarious and heartbreaking. Watch them and you will see what's the matter with Hollywood.

Oh, and go watch "The Player" if you wantto see what this guy is talking about. Best movie ever made about Hollywood. Even Whoopi Goldberg is good in it. Every time I watch it I am surprised that it got made.

Posted by: rockmom at December 04, 2012 01:06 PM (NYnoe)

150 Thissounds just like the engineering process for (any) product. By the time you're done, you're just holding your head in your hands wondering if you can make it to the bar before your head blows "clean off".

Posted by: Gerry at December 04, 2012 01:07 PM (UmkDS)

151 Movies are made by committees. Laws are made by committees. I'm remind of Bismark. If you like movies and laws you should never watch them being made.

On a completely unrelated topic, I see Lie-awatha Warren will be on the Senate Banking Committee.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 04, 2012 01:07 PM (Hx5uv)

152 The Hobbit looks godawful, is already exponentially too long, and I'm sick to death of all the freaking Elves

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 04, 2012 01:07 PM (F+ZCA)

153 126 I bet the Twilight Rifftrax is amazing.

It's hilarious. They truly hate these movies. They mock the foppish vampires at the end of the last film with effeminate moaning for over five minutes. Bill Corbett launched a swear tirade twenty seconds in to one of the films.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 04, 2012 01:07 PM (J7sV0)

154 Your HS combined the Debate Club and Archery Club? That's hardcore.

Both speakers get a chance to rebut while dodging arrows shot at them from 50 yards.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:07 PM (GQ8sn)

155 Movies are awful because in hollywood they only fund like-minded relatives who'll blow them. Or some variation.

Posted by: yerro at December 04, 2012 01:07 PM (CO/ju)

156 Meta is the problem, btw, with film and TV today

too. much. meta. content.

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at December 04, 2012 01:07 PM (F+ZCA)

157 How do you know the movie was sold to 17 year old boys, even if it was made for adults (based on an adult novel)?


Because I was a 19 year old boy at the time. As ace said, the farther I get from 17, the less attractive that kind of story (and marketing) is.

If I hadn't already seen Fight Club, and was just seeing the previews that were on back then, I wouldn't watch it today. I'd think it looked like mindless violence for the sake of mindless violence.

Again, the movie itself was surprisingly good. The promos and trailers were all Ed Norton looking lost and defeated until Brad Pitt said "I want you to hit me as hard as you can."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (5DR1j)

158
Most likely Damon Lindelof.

oh.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (jUytm)

159
I think additional factors include the rising cost of movie tickets (and refreshments, etc) against inflation. Also the narrowing gap between theater release and DVD/Bluerayrelease. People don't want to take a chance on a movie and discover that they've thrown away $50. They'll wait until the opinion makers decide that something non-formulaic is a must-see and get it via On Demad or Netflix. Therefore as a studio if you had a truly unique new film project on your hands that couldn't easily be marketed by way of the standard formulas and stars, you'd tend to shy away.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (Nfpnr)

160 "they famously used to-- that's what powered Star Wars to break box office records. A lot of people saw it, and a lot of people -- younger boys -- saw it three, four, six, ten times.

I don't know if they do any more."

I think the last movie I saw multiple times in a theater was Star Wars Episode I... I was 19 a huge Star Wars geek, and I think I saw it 4 times trying to convince myself it was good.

Posted by: dr. shatterhand at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (n/ogz)

161 Is everyone in the Hobbit 3 apples high?

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (NIZHJ)

162 That was me during the preview of the new Matt Damon anti-fracking movie.
Posted by: Wodeshed at December 04, 2012 01:03 PM (a9L+B)


If I ever went to the movies anymore, I'd be doing the exact same thing.

As it is, the only movie I'm going to see this year is "The Hobbit," and dammit, i still have to pre-buy my ticket! If I have to elbow some Hobbit wannabe in the throat to get my foot in the door of that theater, then I'm sorry about your windpipe, Bob Costas. Consider it an opportunity to keep your yap shut.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (4df7R)

163 I coulda been a contender. I coulda been a somebody instead of a bum, which is what I am. Let's face it. It was you, Acey.

Posted by: red rock 'em sock 'em robot at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (jPVBi)

164
Historically, both The Tudors and Boardwalk Empire have done excellent jobs. No, they are not perfectly correct but they are close enough and did/have gotten people interested in the historical period. There are 100s of The Tudors blogs and they are pretty good sources of info.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (e/Cti)

165 Also, libs all view the world as 13 year olds because they never grew up, so isn't it just a happy coincidence that all their dopey movies happen to be "geared" towards them.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (4QUIa)

166 There are many reasons why tv is better than the movies at the moment. There's a longer time to tell the story, there's a longer time for the actors to build the characters and if you're on HBO/Showtime whatever, then you can actually show far more sex and violence than you can in a movie. I also find it interesting that shows that are telling arc stories are now so accepted. I would say X-Files is to thank for that.


When it comes to movies, well, the primary source of money is from the foreign box office. All that lovely subtext will be totally lost on foreign audiences. Look, I can be an arty bitch and I love me some foreign films, but I am also aware that I am missing stuff. Of course the suits want it all hammered out in all caps and painted in primary colors. Then everyone will get it.


I still say the best writing to be found right now is in video games. You can do almost anything you want and you have 25-50 hours to tell it, not to mention you can do all kinds of branching paths.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 04, 2012 01:09 PM (VtjlW)

167 I used to despise independent and foreign movies. I wouldn't see them on principle. But with the major studios just churning out one adolescent power-fantasy after another (and usually poorly done adolescent power-fantasies at that), I am beginning to see the appeal.

Goodness. I've always watched all three. Ever since I can remember.

You've got a lot of catching up to do!

Posted by: beach & a kindle at December 04, 2012 01:09 PM (LpQbZ)

168 It's like Othello, but with a giant robot from space kills that everyone at the end.

Posted by: Michael Bay at December 04, 2012 01:09 PM (QKKT0)

169 "Most movies that come out these days, my interest in them is largely determined by how badly I want to see them riffed by Rifftrax. Seriously. It's the one and only reason I would ever watch "The Happening." "Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 12:57 PM (4df7R)LOL - we watched that one on the Riffplayer just 2 nights ago! So funny - "Now, THERE's a cheap monster effect for you: *the wind*" "Yeah, the only thing cheaper would be *low humidity*!"

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at December 04, 2012 01:09 PM (FkH4y)

170 Most likely Damon Lindelof.



oh.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 01:08 PM (jUytm)

He's also the same choad that wrote Prometheus. Look how good of a writer he is.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:09 PM (GQ8sn)

171 Favorite film? A tie between Fellini's 'La Dulce Vita' and Bergman's 'Wild Strawberries'. Not being a snob, either. They're that good. The scene in 'Wild Strawberries' where the old man realizes he's been an absolute asshole all his life is one of the best scenes ever captured on film.

There's a low-budget post-Apocalypse movie out there called 'The Day'. Amazingly good.

Posted by: troyriser at December 04, 2012 01:10 PM (vtiE6)

172
IN THE LOOP

Anyone see this? I recommended it a while back but of course none of you friggin mimes ever said anything about it.

It's a clever flick.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 01:10 PM (jUytm)

173
Damon Lindelof was on The Walking Dead this week.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:10 PM (e/Cti)

174 I was waiting for the book.

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:10 PM (NIZHJ)

175 Knight and Day.

One of the very first scenes is of the crash of a commercial jet with Cruise and Diaz in the cockpit. Neither is belted in and Diaz isn't even in a seat.

The plane hits hard and begins to somersault.

Cruise and Diaz walk away unharmed.

WHO THE FUCK approved that?

The movie had potential but from the very beginning it is so absurd that nothing else can get your mind off that scene.

An hour in and I was still saying out loud: Seriously?!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 04, 2012 01:11 PM (piMMO)

176 Yeah but Whedon falls for this also. In "Serenity" the chick with the
huge forehead turns out to be the "savior" of them all against the
Reavers.


Sort of. The difference is that River isn't "The Hero." The Hero is Mal.

In point of fact, River being the genetically modified, mentally enhanced, demon-killer ninja makes Mal- who definitely isn't- all that more heroic.

It's like if you did a Star Wars movie where Han was the Protagonist, and Luke was one of the side-kicks.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 04, 2012 01:11 PM (5DR1j)

177 I write scripts for 10 year olds. Wait, maybe it was a 10 year old who wrote them .. nevertheless ..

As long as I put new special effects through blue filters, you'll park your asses in the seats to watch my films

Gives me the cash to lecture you about your selfish ways and carbon footprints from the comfort of my many mansions

Posted by: James Fuckin' Cameron at December 04, 2012 01:11 PM (wwsoB)

178 Marlon Brando in Last Tango In Paris:

"Put your fingers up my ass. Are you deaf?"

Nobody in the history of film has so thoroughly indicted the horrific legacy of American imperialism as Marlon Brando in the bathtub scene.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 04, 2012 01:11 PM (5JmKY)

179
What's with the Walking Dead, is it a tv show made for celebs to make cameos on?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 01:11 PM (jUytm)

180 My favorite Movies of all time
2001 A Space Odyssey
The Year of Living Dangerously with Mel Gibson
No Way Out with Kevin Costner
Return of the King
Memento
and sentimental all time favorite
The Wizard of Oz


Posted by: Sharon at December 04, 2012 01:11 PM (DtEq4)

181 128
"It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia"

I have not seen this show, is it worth seeing?


Posted by: chemjeff at December 04, 2012 01:03 PM (m/eXi)

Yes. Hell yes. FX has some of the best shows on television, and this is one of them.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 04, 2012 01:12 PM (Zd/NW)

182 That's *almost* why movies suck.

The thing is, The 17-year-old Boy doesn't exist; only a corporate idea of The 17-year-old Boy, far divorced from any real 17-year-old boy(s), does.

Big [Fill In The Blank], unless it's working under the dictatorial terror___ of a singular Steve Jobs type, makes crap, because...it just can't do otherwise. As the bumper stickers used to say, "Corporate Rock Sucks"--not "Corporate Rock Fans Suck" (though they mostly do). Consumers don't decide what gets made, or even really what's successful. That's *decided*, and they consent to they decision, to playing The 17-year-old Boy, or they don't.

The fundamental thing is, the primary product of bureaucracy is bureaucracy. Big [X]'s incentives are almost entirely internal, hierarchical, "political." Because it's Big.

If a bureaucracy *makes stuff*, the stuff it makes is really made for internal consumption. It shits that stuff into the world if it *has* to, to go on doing the things it *really* does, but...it's shit. A literal waste product of another process. You don't digest *so* you can make shit. You digest to stay alive, and shit comes out. Hollywood makes shit because "Hollywood," an understandable-as-singular entity, exists. When it was less singular, it made more varied stuff.

The guy's article comes close to getting it. He could *almost* be a writer.

(TV isn't much better.)

Posted by: oblig. at December 04, 2012 01:12 PM (cePv8)

183 Korean Movies for me, they seem to be more gritty like the "the man from nowhere" and "Chaser".


Oldboy.


Has anyone seen this? Holy fuck, there is a gigantic REVEAL near the end for the protagonist. I have not seen a movie that even attempted to do something like this.

And now, fucking garden gnome Spike Lee is doing a remake of it with Josh Brolin.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:12 PM (GQ8sn)

184 >>>172 IN THE LOOP

Anyone see this? I recommended it a while back but of course none of you friggin mimes ever said anything about it. It's a clever flick. Posted by: soothsayer

No, but I am a big fan of the TV series, In The Thick of It, which it is based on. Their spoof on the Levenson Inquiry was hilarious.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:12 PM (e/Cti)

185

Ace has gone all Robert Redford Sundance on us.

;-)

Posted by: beach & a kindle at December 04, 2012 01:12 PM (LpQbZ)

186 It's pretty funny. Some of it may not be to your liking (gross potty humor),

Believe it or not, despite my often foul-mouthed commentary, I absolutely HATE bathroom humor. Hence why the one time I ever saw any of "It's Always Sunny...," I immediately turned it off and never looked back.

It's also why, "Me, Myself and Irene" is still my #1 worst movie of all time.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:13 PM (4df7R)

187 Speaking of, am I the only person who liked Bowfinger?

It's a wild poison pen letter to H-wood for their dumbshit product. Not Steve Martin's best work but I thought it was pretty funny. It took huge swings at Scient*l*gy and H-wood in general.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 04, 2012 01:13 PM (JEpGb)

188 Also, the overseas market is huge. But culture, nuance, and sophistication doesn't translate very well. So you reduce movies to the lowest common adult denominator, which turns out to look a lot like . . . a 17-year old boy.

Also a lot of emerging markets where movie-going is huge have lower IQs for now.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 04, 2012 01:13 PM (ZMzpb)

189 I thought movies pretty much always were terrible

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at December 04, 2012 01:13 PM (QDOVN)

190
Whoops! I meant The Talking Dead which is going to a full hour when the show is off hiatus.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:13 PM (e/Cti)

191 Ridley Scott's Monopoly-- The Movie of The Game?

You have got to shitting me......

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 04, 2012 01:13 PM (VUZ26)

192 The other part of the equation is that movie tickets now can cost upwards of $20 if you want IMAX, 3d and all that other crap.



I had lost power for a few days after the derecho struck and decided
to go see Prometheus just to sit in an air conditioned room for a few
hours. Prior to watching it, we ate and I couldn't come to terms with
paying $35 for that movie (no lie, $35 for two tickets).



I went home and sat in the dark and heat for a few hours and I still don't regret that decision.


^ this ...
I can just wait a while and it will be 9.99 in the bargain bin and watch it on my 72 in Widescreen and have free popcorn and beer (or if I want to be really bad, I could get it off the torrent sites..)

Movies as we know them are dead.. they just don't look like Zombies yet..

Posted by: catman at December 04, 2012 01:14 PM (YKUmW)

193 This guy wrote;

The Thing (2011)
Nightmare on Elm Street (2010)
Final Destination 5

No, I think he sucks at what he does. If his big excuse is that his scripts are shitty because he has to put "footnotes" next to his shitty character's shitty dialogue then I think it's fair to say that this guy is just a shitty writer. The only thing I got from this guy is that his next script is called "Hours"

Starring Paul Walker.

About surviving the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

No Ace, I think this guy can just go fuck himself. He just sucks at his profession and is the reason why modern movies suck, because he keeps getting work. Holy shit The Thing (2011) was so fucking terrible, and it was mostly the script. I want to punch him in the face.

Posted by: Cashin at December 04, 2012 01:15 PM (TYEu4)

194 187
Speaking of, am I the only person who liked Bowfinger?



I think it's one of Martin's best movies. And I'm a sucker for any movie Bill Murray is in, LOVED Kingpin.

Posted by: Dr Spank at December 04, 2012 01:15 PM (4cRnj)

195 It's also why, "Me, Myself and Irene" is still my #1 worst movie of all time.

Hahaha...lemme guess what scene turned you off.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:15 PM (GQ8sn)

196 Oldboy.

That movie is one long, horrific mindfuck. As are a lot of Korean and Japanese horror and/or action and/or suspense films.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:15 PM (4df7R)

197 Briefly in the late 80's movies were good. You could go, knowing nothing and most were fine.

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:15 PM (NIZHJ)

198 I remember the Book movie Striptease the book has a scene where the Burt Renolds character is referring to being banned from the Kennedy compound in FL, for Kennedy like behavior without being a Kennedy. In the movie he refers to an autographed picture of Newt as his drinking buddy.

Posted by: Paladin at December 04, 2012 01:16 PM (ycm4Q)

199
Which was worse, Nurse Betty or Me, Myself, and Ireme?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 01:16 PM (jUytm)

200 I still say the best writing to be found right now is in video games. You can do almost anything you want and you have 25-50 hours to tell it, not to mention you can do all kinds of branching paths.


I agree. Also, the cost per hour of entertainment is alot different. I don't mind shelling gout $50-60 for something I'll get weeks of enjoyment out of-even if it is the same old story, because I can play the thing for more than 3 hours. With a movie, two tickets and drinks set me back the same thing and it only lasts 3 hours

Posted by: taylork at December 04, 2012 01:16 PM (ppNDn)

201 Romeo13,

Have you seen the 1988 movie Without a Clue? Michael Kane plays Sherlock Holmes, but he's not the brains. Ben Kingsley's Dr Watson is the real detective.

Watson was forced to invent Holmes because as a respectable person he couldn't admit to being so uncouth as having a criminal detective hobby. He hires a failed actor to play the invented Holmes. Of course that opens a whole new world of troubles.

It is a fun movie and perfectly represents the theme you mentioned.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 04, 2012 01:16 PM (6qlHs)

202 "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia"

I have not seen this show, is it worth seeing?

****

It's like a more lifelike South Park. They offend absolutely EVERYONE so, occasionally, you might turn the channel, but keep going back because more often than not it will leave you ROFL.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 04, 2012 01:17 PM (piMMO)

203
We need a serious review on internet porn.

There are some sites that deserve recognition for a job well done.

Posted by: jwest at December 04, 2012 01:17 PM (ZDsRL)

204 *low humidity*
Holy shit! Don't sneak up on a guy like that with that stuff just outta the friggin' blue, would ya?!

Posted by: moron hiding under the blankets at December 04, 2012 01:17 PM (jPVBi)

205 I use to be into foreign films when I was younger but today, most foreign films suck.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:17 PM (e/Cti)

206
I still say the best writing to be found right now is in video games.


Are we talking Mass Effect or Call of Duty Modern Warfare? One has it, the other sucks ass.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:17 PM (GQ8sn)

207 I'll be that guy. I'll say it.



I though Fight Club SUCKED. I didn't find it entertaining when I was 19, I don't find it meaningful now. Shit blew.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 04, 2012 01:18 PM (da5Wo)

208 Hahaha...lemme guess what scene turned you off.
Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:15 PM (GQ8sn)


I could not even begin to narrow it down. I hated it THAT MUCH. If it was possible to create a weapon powered purely by an object of utter loathing, then I would need one to hold a replicant of Barack Obama, and another to hold a copy of "Me, Myself and Irene."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:18 PM (4df7R)

209 Hence why the one time I ever saw any of "It's Always Sunny...," I immediately turned it off and never looked back.

It's also why, "Me, Myself and Irene" is still my #1 worst movie of all time. Posted by: MWR


I'm right there with you. Tried watching Sunny. Awful people being awful assholes. Um, yay?

Pass.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 04, 2012 01:18 PM (JEpGb)

210 201
Romeo13,



Have you seen the 1988 movie Without a Clue? Michael Kane plays
Sherlock Holmes, but he's not the brains. Ben Kingsley's Dr Watson is
the real detective.



Watson was forced to invent Holmes because as a respectable person
he couldn't admit to being so uncouth as having a criminal detective
hobby. He hires a failed actor to play the invented Holmes. Of course
that opens a whole new world of troubles.



It is a fun movie and perfectly represents the theme you mentioned.



I saw it. Sherlock, in the end, is good enough to publicly credit Watson as the real reason why they are successful.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:19 PM (GQ8sn)

211 Oldboy.


Has anyone seen this? Holy fuck, there is a gigantic REVEAL near the end for the protagonist. I have not seen a movie that even attempted to do something like this.



Love. That. Movie. I love of all Chan-wook Park's stuff and have you seen the trailer for Stoker? Holy shit.

http://youtu.be/btm7WjSwPmQ


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 04, 2012 01:19 PM (VtjlW)

212 Video Games are bigger that Movies now. Way more money.

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:19 PM (NIZHJ)

213 I could not even begin to narrow it down. I hated it THAT MUCH.


"Holy crap, it's a like a dead heat in a zepplin race!!!"


Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:20 PM (GQ8sn)

214
I watched about 20 minutes of the American version of SHAMELESS.

It makes Jersey Shore look like Downton Abbey.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 01:20 PM (jUytm)

215 50 years ago, here is a sample of some classic films from 1962:



Lawrence of Arabia, The Longest Day, What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?,

The Music Man, Dr. No, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance,

How the West Was Won, Advise and Consent, Birdman of Alcatraz, Cape Fear,

Days of Wine and Roses, Lolita, The Manchurian Candidate, The Miracle Worker,

Requiem for a Heavyweight, Ride the High Country.



The decline is incredible.

Posted by: Fed Up. at December 04, 2012 01:02 PM

Even from 17 years ago the decline is huge;

1995

Braveheart, Apollo 13, Heat, Casino, Crimson Tide, Clueless, Dolores Claiborne, Leaving Las Vegas, Othello, Sense and Sensibility, Twelve Monkeys

We'll just forget Batman Forever, Showgirls, and Waterworld

Posted by: kbdabear at December 04, 2012 01:20 PM (wwsoB)

216 My complaint: they can't seem to make movies about small things that matter to people. They always have to have the BIG THING that is about to DESTROY HUMANKIND AS WE KNOW IT that the main character MUST DEFEAT!

Why can't the thing the main character has to fight against be something small but important to just a few? That makes a much more impactful, character-driven story.

When you choose to make the villain big (or situation big), it makes the characters small. Small characters begets very little feeling from the audience when they are in harm's way.

I am hopeful the Internet will bring about a lot more creativity than Hollywood.

Posted by: KJB at December 04, 2012 01:20 PM (ZhB0u)

217 And now, fucking garden gnome Spike Lee is doing a remake of it with Josh Brolin.
Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:12 PM (GQ8sn)


Hollywood is also planning to do a live action remake of "Akira." Cuz Hollywood can really capture the essence ofa groundbreaking Japanese anime film with the likes of Justin Timberlake.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:21 PM (4df7R)

218
rdbrewer had a clip from "Sunny" in the sidebar. It was very funny and had the cute girl who was the hooker on Firefly.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:22 PM (e/Cti)

219 OldBoy
Has anyone seen this? Holy fuck, there is a gigantic REVEAL near the end
for the protagonist. I have not seen a movie that even attempted to do
something like this.

Great movie and I can't believe that they are going to ruin it with a Remake.

Infernal Affairs was much better than the Hollywood version The Departed

Posted by: Patrick at December 04, 2012 01:22 PM (6WpNC)

220 Anyone watching Revolution? I think it is way better than Hunger Games which I watched on netflix and having read the book, thought it sucked. have taken to waiting for movies to be available on Netflix and even then my husband usually gives up half way through totally disgusted,

Posted by: Sharon at December 04, 2012 01:22 PM (DtEq4)

221 We need a serious review on internet porn.




Nah, what we need is an internet porn site with better Boolean search parameters. I'm tired of having DP porn come up in my search results. The penis ratio should never exceed 1.

Posted by: taylork at December 04, 2012 01:23 PM (ppNDn)

222 @215

Waterworld is the modern Lawrence of Arabia good sir. Are you simply not a fan of Costner's gills?

Posted by: Cashin at December 04, 2012 01:23 PM (TYEu4)

223 187 "Speaking of, am I the only person who liked Bowfinger?"

Hilarious movie. Especially Eddie Murphy's constant muttering, "Keep it Together, Keep it Together, Keep it Together. Keep It Together!

Posted by: Galadriel at December 04, 2012 01:23 PM (xG0vx)

224 221 I agree.

Posted by: Butters at December 04, 2012 01:23 PM (NIZHJ)

225 I admit that I already have tickets for my whole family to see Les Miserables on Christmas. But that's because my son's high school did the play 2 years ago and we all fell in love with it, and also because heand my husband aremadly in love with Anne Hathaway.

Both of my kids LOVED Inception (they were 13 and 17 when it was released), it is probably the movie they still watch the most at home. But they're pretty mature and really love psychological thrillers. I may have the only 15-year-old girl on the planet who has neither read the books nor seen the "Twilight" movies. The only TV show she watches is The Walking Dead.

Recent movies I really liked were "The Artist," "The King's Speech," "Crazy Heart" (an honestly GREAT movie, not enough attention was paid to it,) "True Grit," "The Dark Knight Rises."

None of them are as good as "Mad Men," "Justified," or "The Tudors" though.

Posted by: rockmom at December 04, 2012 01:24 PM (NYnoe)

226 "The Wake of the Red Witch" on DVD starring John Wayne

Is that the one where Wayne was the executive producer, and had Robert Mitchum as the star, but after Mitchum pushed the director off a pier, Wayne had to fire him.

Posted by: Paladin at December 04, 2012 01:24 PM (ycm4Q)

227
is Internal Affairs subtitled or dubbed in Engrish?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 04, 2012 01:24 PM (jUytm)

228 Movie strategy 1:
Appeal to teen boy. Who brings along: his girlfriend, his younger brother, and his parents. 5 tickets sold for targeting one person.

Movie strategy 2:
Appeal to teen girl. Who watches the same movie 5 times.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 04, 2012 01:25 PM (ZPrif)

229 When you choose to make the villain big (or situation big), it makes the characters small. Small characters begets very little feeling from the audience when they are in harm's way.


*****

A few movies break the mold. I think 1984 is one. The 9/11 movies as well.

It's the "blockbuster" shit like Bay puts out that fits your description precisely.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 04, 2012 01:25 PM (piMMO)

230 Wait till electricity prices "necessarily skyrocket" with this energy intensive industry

The celebtards making the movie will cheer electricity rate hikes because they can easily afford it, and the movie studios will get their special tax breaks for energy costs. However, the theaters will have to jack the ticket prices up to keep the concrete cubicles air conditioned. Then there will be the lost revenues when people don't buy the overpriced "healthy snacks" and they can't buy the Goobers and Raisinettes because of nanny state laws

Posted by: kbdabear at December 04, 2012 01:26 PM (wwsoB)

231 I though Fight Club SUCKED. I didn't find it entertaining when I was 19, I don't find it meaningful now. Shit blew.

It was unusual. Very different. But I thought it was pretty over-rated meh.

What the hell is supposed to be so wrong about having a furnished apartment? I just found that to be such a silly thing to be raging against.

1st world problems that aren't actually problems at all.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 01:26 PM (KXm42)

232 is Internal Affairs subtitled or dubbed in Engrish?


***

I guess you aren't referring to the Richard Gere version.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 04, 2012 01:26 PM (piMMO)

233 is Internal Affairs subtitled or dubbed in Engrish?

It's "Infernal Affairs". Both versions are available.

There is also an Infernal Affairs 2 and 3.

Posted by: EC at December 04, 2012 01:26 PM (GQ8sn)

234 For all the talk about conservatives abandoning the Hollywood/artspace, I simply stopped watching because I was tired of paying to have my intelligence insulted, for the reasons stated in the article etc.

Posted by: Gabriel Syme at December 04, 2012 01:27 PM (g84Si)

235 Let's not forget, some of the Meryl Streep movies and "The King's Speech" type movies are vanity projects for the studios. They make them so that they can be thought of as "artists" while they are making a movie version of "Land of The Lost".

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 04, 2012 01:27 PM (Zd/NW)

236 I hated Always Sunny the first couple times I saw it. Then I loved it. Some bits are pretty genius. Charlie is hilarious.

Day Man
Fighter of the Night Man
Champion of the sun
You're a master of karate
And friendship for everyone

Day Man (Aah-aah-aah)
Fighter of the Night Man (Aah-aah-aah)
Champion of the sun (Aah-aah-aah)
You're a master of karate
And friendship for everyone

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 04, 2012 01:28 PM (ZPrif)

237 If a lot of movies seem heavily anti-American it's no accident. Movie studios know that a higher percentage of their gross comes from overseas box office. Nothing packs in the Euroweenies and Arabs like some nice fun America hating

Once Europe's economy goes into its final collapse and all the Arab countries are under Islamic law, they might have to rethink that marketing strategy

Posted by: kbdabear at December 04, 2012 01:30 PM (wwsoB)

238 When you choose to make the villain big (or situation big), it makes the characters small. Small characters begets very little feeling from the audience when they are in harm's way.

I know that everyone turns their nose up at "Independence Day," but I thought that movie did a great job of inverting this. The situation was huge, but the focus on the individual characters brought it down into relatable territory. I love movies where a lot of scattered heroes end up coalescing into one unified force by the end; that gives me chills every damn time.

Of course, I also partially blame "ID4" for starting off the whole "big boom! flash flash flash! KABLOOEY!" film genre. It's like Hollywood just ignored the "interesting characters" and "fun story" part of ID4 and decided that it's success was solely due to the big alien ships blowing up Washington, DC.

...

Though, to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing that revisited in a more contemporary context.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:31 PM (4df7R)

239 What the fuck is a 'weekend'?

Posted by: the dowager countess of jersey shore at December 04, 2012 01:31 PM (jPVBi)

240 I hardly ever like the movies hyped as "Artsy" like No Country for Old Men or The Artist or even True Grit. Trying to find meaning when all I want is to be entertained is boring.

Posted by: Sharon at December 04, 2012 01:32 PM (DtEq4)

241 My favorite Movies of all time
2001 A Space Odyssey


YOU LIE.

Nobody really liked 2001: A Space Odyssey. Because it was the worst fucking movie ever made. Yes, even worse than that one.

People believe they liked it, but only because they've been told they're supposed to. But watching it in its entirety, and not under the influence of a hallucinogen? It is unlikeable, unwatchable, and an affront to humanity.

I know what you're thinking- "But Hollowpoint, what about the awesome visuals? The effects were so far ahead of their time."

If movies were judged on special effects, Micheal Bay would be the greatest director alive. Shit, at least he makes a token effort towards something resembling a plot.

2001 has maybe 20 minutes of material with two hours of empty filler. It lacks anything resembling a plot, dialog, or character development. It does have multiple 7-10 minute sequences of spaceships floating by for no fucking reason. That the scenes are set to classical music doesn't make it art, interesting, or relevant. Just boring as hell.

2001: A Space Odyssey is too fucking awful to even be called a movie. I view it as a perverse psychological experiment to see how many viewers could be duped into pretending to like an intentionally terrible, worthless, boring movie with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

In short, you didn't like it, and neither did anyone else. Because it's impossible.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 01:32 PM (SY2Kh)

242 Strangely, an early intro to European films at a small theatre in San Francisco during the '70s and '80s telegraphed Hollywood's creative impairment even then. Mom and I went frequently initially because of the wine and ice cream served on premises. Wine and ice cream, people. Who could resist? Then, the freshness of the predominantly French with a sprinkling of Italian films offered surfaced an unhappy comparison between Hollywood and Europe. Hollywood really suffered when attempting remakes of the Euro movies all of which Mom and I watched in the original. Heavy/ham-handed interpretations hammering home the original nuanced subtexts was the rule. So, your writer's thesis seems sound from my perspective.
Now, the equally heavy/ham-handed liberal moralizing from a group that has absolutely no moral credibility has sounded the death knell for this ex-movie fan. My better half and I used to attend an average of three to four movies a month. The awful andongoing lambasting of conservative America by the creatively and morally impaired in Hollywood and the coastal artistic elite, cured me during "W's" first term. As with theunion workers producing the cars and tires I prefer who chose to vote for BO twice: Screw you and the horse...

Posted by: Mazzuchelli at December 04, 2012 01:33 PM (piR98)

243 62

Master and Commander

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 04, 2012 01:34 PM (ZMzpb)

244 I hear they are going to remake Gone With The Wind. It'll be pretty much the same except everybody is queer and the Democrats want to free the slaves.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 04, 2012 01:34 PM (Hx5uv)

245 Let's not forget, some of the Meryl Streep movies and "The King's Speech" type movies are vanity projects for the studios. They make them so that they can be thought of as "artists" while they are making a movie version of "Land of The Lost".

Meryl Streep movies can go suck a dick.

That said, at least it means studios have SOME idea of what a "good" movie really IS. It proves they have the wherewithal to make them, just not the desire to do it full time. Bastards.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 04, 2012 01:35 PM (4df7R)

246 As much as the quality of movies has declined, the quality of tv sitcoms is even worse, and worse yet is the decline in the quality of popular music

Now get off my lawn

Posted by: kbdabear at December 04, 2012 01:35 PM (wwsoB)

247
Yeah but Whedon falls for this also. In "Serenity" the chick with the
huge forehead turns out to be the "savior" of them all against the
Reavers.

Sort of. The difference is that River isn't "The Hero." The Hero is Mal.


I honestly think that Firefly is one of the greatest scifi shows of all time in no small part because it was cancelled after 1 season, and leaves you wanting. Everyone wants more Firefly because it was great, but careful what you ask for.

I think if it had been allowed to go on for 8 more seasons, it would have turned into River The Reaver Slayer, in space, with an alien lesbo sidekick. And also, somewhere along the way a small child with a bowl cut, gap teeth and a cute catch phrase would have joined the cast.

Posted by: entropy at December 04, 2012 01:35 PM (TULs6)

248 Hollowpoint -- that's how I feel about Jazz, Ballet, and Opera.

BTW I do like it.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 01:36 PM (KXm42)

249 Meryl Streep; Amazing ability to do dozens of accents and be wooden in each one

Posted by: kbdabear at December 04, 2012 01:36 PM (wwsoB)

250 "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" illustrates this idea -- if your
budget is low enough, you have the liberty to do whatever you like, and
you might just wind up making something that hasn't been seen sixty
three thousand times before.

Um, "Always sunny" is nothing but Seinfeld's slutty younger sister. Less funny too.

Posted by: flyonthewall at December 04, 2012 01:37 PM (pePug)

251 Anything by the Coen Bros.

---

I'm reminded of Barton Fink about a big deal young play writer who is hired by Hollywood to write a wrestling picture.


Posted by: WalrusRex at December 04, 2012 01:37 PM (Hx5uv)

252 Speaking of Robert Duvall, the Apostle is a damn, damn good movie that's for adults. Some Christians may find it a little uncomfortable, but this Christian thought it had a deeply Christian message, in a kind of Southern way.

Secondhand Lions was good, but a little uneven. The scene in the bar was awesome.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 04, 2012 01:37 PM (ZMzpb)

253 I honestly think that Firefly is one of the greatest scifi shows of all time in no small part because it was cancelled after 1 season, and leaves you wanting. Everyone wants more Firefly because it was great, but careful what you ask for.

Be VERY careful

Posted by: Star Trek TOS 3rd season at December 04, 2012 01:38 PM (wwsoB)

254 BTW I do like it.

That is impossible so YOU LIE.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 01:38 PM (SY2Kh)

255 Suzy Kolber talks in ALL CAPS

Posted by: PR at December 04, 2012 01:39 PM (KHo8t)

256 Citizen tits
Alice in wonder tits
The wonderful tits of oz

Posted by: alex at December 04, 2012 01:42 PM (uFY4s)

257 I really liked Millers Crossing.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:42 PM (e/Cti)

258 The Great Santini, sportsfans....

Posted by: NC Ref at December 04, 2012 01:42 PM (dVJLS)

259 The kings tits

Posted by: alex at December 04, 2012 01:42 PM (uFY4s)

260 The scarlet tits

Posted by: alex at December 04, 2012 01:43 PM (uFY4s)

261 Gone with the tits

Posted by: alex at December 04, 2012 01:44 PM (uFY4s)

262 12 O'clock High - Gregory Peck.I am totally serious BTW.How old are you?<Not that old.Do you realize that film is so good it is still being used in military training for leadership?That a real movie. One that stands the test of time.
Posted by: marcus at December 04, 2012 01:00 PM (GGCsk)

marcus is right on! Watched 12 O'Clock High as a youngster and though I enjoyed the movie, the leadership traits were over my head at the time. Watched it again during Squadron Officers' School and it is a magnificent movie about leadership and the human condition.

Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 04, 2012 01:44 PM (YYyqq)

263 As Ace notes, not everything in olden days was golden. I really liked the novel The Naked and the Dead by Norman Mailer (even though Mailer was pontificating progressive elitist and there is some, a good deal actually, of pontificated progressive elitism in the novel) so when I got the chance to watch the 1958 film version I took it. What utter crap! Not only did they change the script all around so that the good guy can live but the rest of the script is idiotic. For example, in one scene they have to bury their garbage so that the Japs won't come across it and know that they are there. Then a scene or two later they pointlessly ambush a Jap patrol rather than simply avoiding it. I'm sure the Japs aren't going to notice that their guys aren't around any more not to mention the sounds of gunfire and the smoke from the fire they used to burn the Japs out. Similarly, the hot shot sergeant tells them not to walk on ridge lines so they can avoid being seen. Next scene, they're all walking the ridge line.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 04, 2012 01:45 PM (Hx5uv)

264 I dislike movied that are all visually dark or blue. I means what's up with that? Is film processing cheaper if they only make it blue?

Posted by: Walkers! at December 04, 2012 01:45 PM (e/Cti)

265 41 Then again, genius is not necessarily rewarded.

If I had a chance to do "Citizen Kane" all over, I would put in Tits, More Tits, Deep Focus Tits, and Tits.

Tits.
Posted by: Orson Wells at December 04, 2012 12:45 PM (RuUvx)


Hah!

I shall remake "El Cid", with Denise Milani in the Sophia Loren role.

You morons will be forking over the cash, bitchez.

Posted by: Anthony Mann at December 04, 2012 01:45 PM (VUZ26)

266 2001 has maybe 20 minutes of material with two hours of empty filler. It lacks anything resembling a plot, dialog, or character development. It does have multiple 7-10 minute sequences of spaceships floating by for no fucking reason. That the scenes are set to classical music doesn't make it art, interesting, or relevant. Just boring as hell.

Unless you're fascinated by primates picking each other's nits, grunting and screaming, use the first 20 minutes of the movie to do other stuff.

Then the next 12 minutes is docking sequences to the music of Strauss's Blue Danube Waltz

I've had more interesting times in the doctor's waiting rooms and DMV lines


Posted by: kbdabear at December 04, 2012 01:45 PM (wwsoB)

267
I think if it had been allowed to go on for 8
more seasons, it would have turned into River The Reaver Slayer, in
space, with an alien lesbo sidekick. And also, somewhere along the way a
small child with a bowl cut, gap teeth and a cute catch phrase would
have joined the cast.

Posted by: entropy at December 04, 2012 01:35 PM (TULs6)

Don't forget the cute little pet that the little mop head would have picked up along the way that gets the two of them into a pickle every episode, but they would end up saving everyone who came to rescue them from said pickle.

Posted by: MrCaniac at December 04, 2012 01:46 PM (Zd/NW)

268 The wonderful tits of oz

---

You mean all this time, all I had to do was rub my tits together?

Posted by: Dorothy at December 04, 2012 01:47 PM (Hx5uv)

269 Big situation: Aliens on earth

Small characters: District 9

If they would look to that movie for an idea how to do a 'big story,' I would be a lot happier to fork out dough at the movie theater.

Also, please stop using *big stars* as your main characters and start using *good actors*...thinking of some 'small movies' that were well done and had no actors I recognized (when they came out): District 9, Kick Ass, Chronicle. Just to name a few.

Posted by: KJB at December 04, 2012 01:47 PM (ZhB0u)

270 Last night I watched Wrath of Khan

JJ Abrams will never reach that. His highest aspiration is not sucking as much as "Final Frontier"

Posted by: kbdabear at December 04, 2012 01:48 PM (wwsoB)

271 Yeah, this guys pretty much call as like it is as far as the studio process in screenwriting. A couple things to add....

1) You inevitably find yourself catering to your perceptions of what you believe the perceptions of the lead note giver's perceptions are going to be; if one exec producer who is known to like gunplay thinks the script needs more nostalgia for the intended cable market venue, you may throw in a spaghetti westernish High Noon sequence to get him on your side and also please all the people who he assumes to be the target audience. Producer B, who came through the ranks shooting sci-fi, is convinced that hard-boiled, gritty, hi-tech crime is the THING these days, so you spin it that direction. Nobody really knows for sure who's going to actually watch this film when it's done. But the advance perceptions of who's going to watch it and who won't (along with the specific tastes of the note givers) will drive the decisions affecting the final product. Everyone is shooting furiously at some unseen target. You are constantly helping the big guys to recalibrate and, with any luck, aim in the same general direction. Your guesswork starts out as "what will please an audience" and becomes "what do I think Producers A, B C think will please an audience"?

2) Somewhere after the initial notes/rewrite process, the script goes to the legal department for review before it's cleared for production. This is where it often gets interesting. If one of your character names happens to be the same as a distinguished cardiologist in Tempe AZ who runs a private clinic with his namesake incorporated on the shingle, and the suits decide you run a .0578% chance of legal exposure, guess what? Good chance you'll be renaming that character. Can't let your characters sing "Happy Birthday" in the birthday party scene (copyright too pricey) substitute "He's a Jolly Good Fellow" Children can NEVER smoke on screen (if I remember correctly, this potentially runs afoul of laws in several states), but they can swear and disrespect their parents. Everyone in Hollywood is afraid of getting sued and is in constant mortal fear of lawyers. This heavily influences the entire creative process and will undoubtedly redline a few of the best moments in a script.

Posted by: Mark Asread at December 04, 2012 01:48 PM (CtjOo)

272 2001 has maybe 20 minutes of material with two hours of empty filler.

---

Let's not forget the scene where the obelisk teaches the monkey to use weapons, much like the NRA in the ghetto.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 04, 2012 01:49 PM (Hx5uv)

273 Samuel Z Arkoff is who you're thinking of.
He said that girls will see movies that boys will see but not vice versa and kids will see movies older kids will see but not vice versa. So cater to teenage boys and you'll get all of them.
He also came up with the ARKOFF formula, not to be confused with the APGAR score:
Action (exciting, entertaining drama)Revolution (novel or controversial themes and ideas)Killing (a modicum of violence)Oratory (notable dialogue and speeches)Fantasy (acted-out fantasies common to the audience)Fornication (sex appeal, for young adults)
He and Roger Corman pretty much built AIP from the ground up.

Posted by: Rod Munsch at December 04, 2012 01:55 PM (2aB+q)

274 #241 FINALLY SOMEONE HATES 2001:A SPACE ODYSSEY AS MUCH AS I DO!

Thank you, Hollowpoint. That is exactly how I feel about that movie!

Posted by: Miss Marple at December 04, 2012 01:55 PM (GoIUi)

275 Here's an exception that proves the rule... Have you seen Wreck It, Ralph? No, seriously. The main story in that is very much an adult theme. The protagonist is a video game villain; he's having a midlife crisis because his game has turned 30, and while his "job" is sometimes satisfying, he feels unappreciated in it. And because he's an adult, and because people depend on him (everyone else in his video game needs him to show up every day), he can't just quit. Instead, he learns to be happy in his job--he changes what he can about it, and accepts the rest.

It may fall under the "grindhouse" exception, big budget though it is. It delivers plenty of action for the kids, and there are lots of merchandising possibilities for the suits (the video-game tie-ins are obvious). And because of that, they have the leeway to write an intelligent, sensitive movie. With poop jokes.

Posted by: Andrew S. at December 04, 2012 01:56 PM (9L8gm)

276
Therefore, the correct money-making demographic to make a movie for is a 17 year old boy.






Is that why most movies have a high content of casual sex and fart jokes?

Posted by: katya the designated driver at December 04, 2012 01:56 PM (DoZD+)

277 And how do you explain Twilight?

Posted by: katya the designated driver at December 04, 2012 01:56 PM (DoZD+)

278 241 Watch Stalker by Andrei Tarkovsky. You'll think 2001 is a taut action flick in comparison.

I actually kind of liked (not loved) 2001. Then again I couldn't stand Apocalypse Now, another one of those movies you're supposed to like.

Kind of like Dickens. You're just supposed to like classics, or else you are a plebeian.

Posted by: fb at December 04, 2012 01:57 PM (JVEmw)

279 Can I add in, Skyfall sucked. Sort of how Dark Knight Rises sucked. Infirm heroes, entry of new, well known associates, idiotic conclusions.

It's like what redletter media guy said about star trek, they took generic spy script and threw it into James Bond.

Posted by: joeindc44 part III the stutter cluster fuckering at December 04, 2012 02:00 PM (3zQJl)

280 Ace, you avoided foreign films? On principle? Why? Many of the greatest films ever made are "foreign." American films for the most part have been dreadful for the last 30 plus year. My wife and I spend most of our time watching films from France, Italy, Japan, etc. Great stuff is out there as long as you don't avoid it on principle.

Posted by: gary at December 04, 2012 02:00 PM (aUnng)

281
Also, please stop using *big stars* as your main characters and start using *good actors






I would much rather watch a movie with unknown or little-known actors. The A-listers always play themselves. Either they have forgotten how to act or they never know and someone thought they had an awesome aura or sexy hair or some stupid thing.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at December 04, 2012 02:00 PM (DoZD+)

282
Yes, yes. But the real question: does Ace write for the 17 y.o. boy?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at December 04, 2012 02:00 PM (1hM1d)

283
Also, please stop using *big stars* as your main characters and start using *good actors*

Same issues you have with politics. You're practically the only one who really wants good movies.

Our population does not shell out big bucks for good acting. They want to see a celebrity.

Posted by: entropy at December 04, 2012 02:01 PM (TULs6)

284 Okay, I was under the influence of Hallucinogenics when I saw 2001. Maybe not exactly as I remembered it.......

Posted by: Sharon at December 04, 2012 02:02 PM (DtEq4)

285 Our population does not shell out big bucks for good acting. They want to see a celebrity.

I hate our population.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 02:03 PM (KXm42)

286 The thing about that writer's complaint: Nobody gets Shakespeare in the first reading of the script.

Sorry. Nobody.

And a movie executive, I think, can be excused for not catching the subtle character points in the first read-through.

Yes, take a few minutes and spell it out.

Put comments in the C++ code.

Can't argue with the rest, though.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 04, 2012 02:03 PM (xSegX)

287 I think all shows should be cancelled after 3 seasons. Most of them suck after that. Supernatural is a perfect example of that.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at December 04, 2012 02:04 PM (DoZD+)

288 It's an amazing irony, given that the decade overall truly sucked, but the golden age forAmerican movies was the 1970's. Patton. Dirty Harry. The French Connection. The Godfather 1 and II. Magnum Force. The Sting. The Conversation. Papillon. Taxi Driver. Dog Day Afternoon. The Outlaw Josey Wales. The Deer Hunter. Pretty much at least 1-2 true classics each year. So many other good ones too. And when you factor in The Wild Bunch and Butch Cassidy were released in '69 and Raging Bull was released in '80 that 12-year period was epic. That all said, what happened to the movie industry is what happened to the media: it went stupid liberal, at firstfairly gradually and then in an accelerated fashion,and then it made a play for the lowest common denominator.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at December 04, 2012 02:10 PM (pmsMR)

289 That all said, what happened to the movie industry is what happened to
the media: it went stupid liberal, at firstfairly gradually and then in
an accelerated fashion,and then it made a play for the lowest common
denominator.


Even those movies were pretty liberal though.. They just didn't bash you over the head with it. It was ignorable.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 02:13 PM (KXm42)

290 I liked 2001, only a half-wit fucktard would say nobody liked it.

Just because you are easily bullied by the media into liking something you don't, doesn't mean the rest of us our. Don't impute your intellectual and moral weakness onto the rest of us. Most of us can like or not like something regardless of what the media says. Sorry you are so weak-minded.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at December 04, 2012 02:15 PM (ZPrif)

291 and yes, corporate big money makes for expensive productions and rich stars, directors, and maybe even richer writers, but the safeguards big money requires means the movies are inherently comittee driven and therefore stupid and watered down

Posted by: joeindc44 part III the stutter cluster fuckering at December 04, 2012 02:17 PM (3zQJl)

292 I liked 2001, only a half-wit fucktard would say nobody liked it.


That doesn't change the fact that no sober person who watched it in its entirety, beginning to end, actually liked it because that would be impossible. Every one of them was bored out of their minds, because it was a boring, terrible movie with no plot and little dialog or character development.

One could make an exception for those stoned out of their gourd on LSD or weed, but they'd be enthralled with the Teletubbies.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 02:23 PM (SY2Kh)

293 My complaint: they can't seem to make movies about small things that
matter to people. They always have to have the BIG THING that is about
to DESTROY HUMANKIND AS WE KNOW IT that the main character MUST DEFEAT!


That's the 17-year old boy thing again. Stuff adults care about--losing your kids, your job, having things be worse for your kids when the grow up--don't matter to 17-year olds. So you either have to do super trivial shit that will lose the adult audience (Oh Noes Zits!) or you have to go gonzo. This applies to foreign audiences too.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 04, 2012 02:23 PM (ZMzpb)

294 Sorry you are so weak-minded.

Now your just being a fucking tool. Requiring everyone to hate what you hate is weak-minded, douchebag.

What are you 12?

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 02:23 PM (KXm42)

295 I just thought all movies suck. Now I know that they all suck, and its really complicated. (I can only watch Adam Sandler movies with 4 or fewer Tomato Meter ratings anyway, so what do I care?)

I always threatened to take my Grandfather to see a movie. He would scoff and invariably say "I haven't seen a movie since Hoot Gibson!". So I suppose it's all relative isn't it? Hoot Gibson never said a word.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at December 04, 2012 02:25 PM (71LDo)

296 OK Flatbush Joe. Having re-read that I think you lost me there. Maybe you're actually agreeing with my point.

We will just have to agree to agree.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 02:28 PM (KXm42)

297 241
My favorite Movies of all time
2001 A Space Odyssey

YOU LIE.

Nobody really liked 2001: A Space Odyssey. Because it was the worst fucking movie ever made. Yes, even worse than that one.

People believe
they liked it, but only because they've been told they're supposed to.
But watching it in its entirety, and not under the influence of a
hallucinogen? It is unlikeable, unwatchable, and an affront to humanity.

I know what you're thinking- "But Hollowpoint, what about the awesome visuals? The effects were so far ahead of their time."

If
movies were judged on special effects, Micheal Bay would be the
greatest director alive. Shit, at least he makes a token effort towards
something resembling a plot.

2001 has maybe 20 minutes of
material with two hours of empty filler. It lacks anything resembling a
plot, dialog, or character development. It does have multiple 7-10
minute sequences of spaceships floating by for no fucking reason. That
the scenes are set to classical music doesn't make it art, interesting,
or relevant. Just boring as hell.

2001: A Space Odyssey is too
fucking awful to even be called a movie. I view it as a perverse
psychological experiment to see how many viewers could be duped into
pretending to like an intentionally terrible, worthless, boring movie
with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

In short, you didn't like it, and neither did anyone else. Because it's impossible.


Posted by: Hollowpoint


I like classic movies and literary stuff so eventually when everybody told me how great that flick was I and the wife-unit set aside an evening to watch it uninterrrupted. Holy Mother of Hell, that movie blew like Katrina, it was as appealing as someone repeatedly tapping your head with a hammer if that experience could somehow be made boring and also you are on LSD.

That was when I finally realized that most people have no clue and shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion, let alone vote or make movies and stuff.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 04, 2012 02:30 PM (ZMzpb)

298 Movies suck for three reasons:

1.) Matt Damon is in them.

2.) Vince Vaughn is in them.

3.) Writers follow the same 10 or 12 formulas that they can't beak out of.

For example, "Skyfall" was a hybrid of other famous movie elements. The villian was a lot like Heath Ledger's Joker. The loss of the NATO spy list was alot like the loss of the NOC list in Mission Impossible with Tom Cruise. The "shoot the shot glass off the head" was like the scene from the Quick and The Dead where Sharon Stone's character tries to shoot the noose. There were also assorted X-Men and Jason Bourne fragments. Still a great movie, but too many borrowed parts.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 04, 2012 02:30 PM (iAUf+)

299 movies are awful because THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THEM ARE ASSHOLES

Posted by: Wally in Walla Walla at December 04, 2012 02:32 PM (Dll6b)

300 Hollywood sucks. Its full of shallow people devoid of values or meaning or character.

Hollywood makes movies.

Therefore movie sucks.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 04, 2012 02:36 PM (ZMzpb)

301 #287

The UK approach may be better. Shorter seasons/series, and sometime they'll go a year or more without new material because everybody is off doing other stuff and the head writer hasn't got any ideas he really wants to do yet.

Not having a irreplaceable central character that the show ends without helps, too. The only character on E.R. that wasn't expendable was the hospital itself. The idea was that this is a place where stories happen. Who is in those stories changes over time.

Posted by: epobirs at December 04, 2012 02:37 PM (kcfmt)

302 Movies are wonderful comrades. 70s sitcoms and movies that don't need any remakes and a movie for every comic book ever made are so creative and original. Only elite masterminds of the liberal persuasion could come up with such high quality cinema.

Posted by: vern schlepker at December 04, 2012 02:39 PM (Kflw4)

303 Three things: 1) There are plenty of great indie and foreign movies to watch, if you would just get over whatever bias or "principle" is keeping you away from them. 2) Mass-marketed movies have been made for just over 100 years now. Have you seen all the really good _old_ ones yet? 3) Today, thru Netflix etc., you have more movie choices at your fingertips than at any time in history.

With the cinematic bounty we have available today, it just seems really silly to complain about how "Hollywood doesn't make good movies anymore." You couldn't possibly watch even 0.1% of all the best movies now available in your whole lifetime. How jaded are you? What more could you want?

Posted by: gp at December 04, 2012 02:41 PM (+Jpqc)

304 Jesus, it figures - Ace writes a good movie post, and I come into it 200-odd comments later. Very well, done, though, Ace. I agree with you totall, which is why I was so happy when The Artist came out. Sure, it's a gimmick movie - A Silent! In 2012! Boy Meets / Loses / Gets Girl! - but at least it didn't insult the audience.

One thing I didn't see you mention, though, Ace, is the depressing cynical snottiness that runs through so many movies, for which I blame that goddamn Seinfeld. I truly, truly hate the whole po-mo nothing's-sacred-and-nothing-matters-so-let's-snark-away underpinning of modern culture.


A producer, I think his name was Zanuck, worked out the logic like this: Girls will see anything boys will see, but boys will not see most things girls will see. Younger kids will see anything that older kids will see, but older kids will not see things made for younger kids. Adults will see most things that older teenagers will see, but older teenagers will not necessarily see things that adults would see. Therefore, the correct money-making demographic to make a movie for is a 17 year old boy.

Doesn't sound like Zanuck to me, more like Harry Cohn. But you may be right.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 04, 2012 02:42 PM (zF6Iw)

305
Hollowpoint:
I loved 2001 when I saw it in the theater. Of course, I was 7 and it was about spaceships.

Posted by: Simon Oliver Lockwood at December 04, 2012 02:43 PM (PaV2r)

306 If you liked it why let that twit talk you out of it?

Different people are allowed to like different things when you're an adult.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 02:51 PM (KXm42)

307 "if your budget is low enough, you have the liberty to do whatever you like"

Key point: if the budget is low there is no big risk to the studio, hence less people looking over your shoulder and worrying.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - channeling Rico at December 04, 2012 02:53 PM (hLRSq)

308 I like 2001: A Space Odyssey. No, really. Growing up, I was a big fan of Arthur C. Clarke's, along with other science fiction greats like Theodore Sturgeon and Larry Niven (whom I've met), Harlan Ellison and Cordwainer Smith. One can argue with the slow build of Kubrick's pacing, but even as a kid I 'got' the pyschedelic payoff at the end. I understood what was going on. Watching it again as an adult, I appreciate the solid acting and the utter lack of wordy exposition to describe what it is we're watching. Another thing, too: there's no sound in space. There can't be. Hearing explosions and lasers and shit in outer space is, well, fucking impossible. At least Kubrick acknowledged that fact when he made the space sequences for the movie.

Would you have liked it better if Jack Nicholson was around to chew up the scenery?

Posted by: troyriser at December 04, 2012 02:57 PM (vtiE6)

309 I was dragged off to see the "Twilight" movie recently and I thought it was written by a 15 year old female who spent a lot of time watching daytime soap operas.
"Twilight -- the Sequel! Now with more adolescent dialogue and plot lines!"

Posted by: mallfly at December 04, 2012 02:59 PM (bJm7W)

310 4 low budget -

El Mariachi was a fine movie, interesting, well made et cetera.

The remake starring Antonio Banderas sucked beyond measure.



You are dead to me. Desperado had (1) Salma Hayek nude; (2) Quentin Tarantino getting shot in the face; (3) Salma Hayek nude; (4) Danny Trejo; and (5) Salma Hayek nude. Sure, the last third of the movie was absolute crap, but the first two thirds Rodriguez wrote before he got "famous" and began mailing in his work. Seriously, in his book Rodriguez admits that he was about half way through the script when he ran out of time to get it to the studio.

Posted by: Wooga at December 04, 2012 02:59 PM (1wcHs)

311
At least Kubrick acknowledged that fact when he made the space sequences for the movie.

I like 2001. It's not riveting, it is a slow movie, but it's got that uniqueness to it. Lots of people will sit there and stare at the sky all night, lots of people like classical music and will just sit there and listen to it. People play Eve Online, that's like Space Odyssey The Videogame. It's not going to put you on the edge of your seat but it doesn't have to be excruciating unless you go in demanding a normal movie instead of what you get.

There is no sound in space and that is possibly the only movie that ever attempted to acknowledge it. Everyone else just chucks in explosions and laser beams and warp travel.

Posted by: entropy at December 04, 2012 03:06 PM (TULs6)

312 "Really? Just finding out you're a wizard, or Green Lantern (or
werewolf, or vampire, or whatever power-trip) isn't enough? You have to
also be The Best of this elite secret group?"

See:

Any actress or celebrity when they are "the very first" human ever to become pregnant.
Or:
The "very first" politician to know someone who died (Hillary Clinton during Bill's first term.)

Posted by: dfbaskwill at December 04, 2012 03:07 PM (71LDo)

313 twilight movies are terrible. Only the last one was ok and that had the new thing in movies, the fake false last battle royale. see also savages.

I had problems with harry potter movies too because the directors were handed scripts and had scenes with characters together who had no reason to be there. Why would 5th years be hanging out with first years in certain scenes. Like lets have fred and george stand mutely behind potter doing something and make no comments.

Anyway, saw 2001 for first time last year on glorious big screen HD and it was awesome.

Posted by: joeindc44 part III the stutter cluster fuckering at December 04, 2012 03:09 PM (3zQJl)

314
"Movies really have become awful, haven't they?"

Yes, Ace. They really have.


"In the movies, it's all entirely predictable. Almost every studio movie is just an assemblage of things that have worked in other movies for the last 20 years."

And the movies in the last 20 years have been awful...so they've been rehashing the awfulness.

I think a big part of it is inbreeding.
Hollywood has become a place for 'liberals only', not only excluding and persecuting conservatives...but also ridiculing and deriding conservative ideas.
This has kept out a lot of conservative creativity.

There is a pragmatism to conservative ideas.
Conservatism is like the 'meat and potatoes' part of a meal.

Liberal ideas are like the desert that comes after a meal.
In the absence of any conservative ideas in the creative process...Hollywood has become sick on a diet oftoo muchcake andcotton candy.

Posted by: wheatie at December 04, 2012 03:12 PM (CM59X)

315 And let's bridge this to problems with PC-ization of decidely non-pc movies like red dawn and conan.

If the kids don't drink deer blood and shoot commies directly in the motherfucking face, then it's not the same.

But the movies didn't create new red dawn and new conan to be awesome, they did it to cash in. There's your problem.

Posted by: joeindc44 part III the stutter cluster fuckering at December 04, 2012 03:12 PM (3zQJl)

316 Studios don't care if Americans don't like their movies because nowadays the take from the foreign market is greater than the domestic, which wasn't always the case.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at December 04, 2012 03:21 PM (3MTRV)

317 The plotline of every film can be guessed solely by its release date. Wednesday vs Friday, month, and proximity to various holidays tells you everything you need to know.

Add cast, director, (or even casting director) into the mix and you can predict everything from the total running time of the credits to the music.

But why would television be better? Everything is a rehash, as mentioned. What matters in all of this is not to analyze TV or film anymore, but to come to the realization that the will to analyze these products is itself part of that selfsame culture industry that feeds the technocratic infrastructure that in turn funds more technocracy and suffocates freedom.

There is something effete about sitting in front of a television or in a movie theater, you see. Something weak, pallid, stupid about it. It's not the mark of a serious person today to subject oneself to these things. It never was, but at least there was a time when entertainment could be challenging instead of the culture's great soporific.

Posted by: Fabio9000 at December 04, 2012 03:28 PM (srbDm)

318 I like 2001: A Space Odyssey. No, really.

IMPOSSIBLE

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 03:29 PM (SY2Kh)

319 2001 is one of the greatest movies ever made. I've seen it beginning to end more than once. I've never been bored--not for even a minute.
If you're in the mood for a recent great film I'd suggest Summer Hours - a French film about the loss of things, the end of a culture,from one generation to the next.
See some of Kurosawa's great samurai films and discover where George Lucas got his Star Wars ideas.
Get some Brigitte Bardot films for the late 50s / early 60s and see what the hottest woman ever on film looks like.

Posted by: gary at December 04, 2012 03:31 PM (aUnng)

320 Hollowdick

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 03:32 PM (KXm42)

321 There's a load of exceptional writers in Hollywood and lots of them are making a decent living without every seeing a single script they've written actually produced. It's not the writers, it's the system.

William Goldman writes about writing Memoirs Of An Invisible Man, a broad Chevy Chase-style comedy. Which was okay because Chevy Chase was the star attached. Only Chevy Chase wanted the script to illuminate his thoughts on the fundamental loneliness of the human condition. Guess who won that battle, star or scriptwriter. And good luck trying to find a copy of the film to see how it finally ended up...

Posted by: Stephen Potter at December 04, 2012 03:32 PM (VfO89)

322 If you're a fan of Korean cinema, "Attack the Gas Station" is hilarious.

Posted by: Oschisms at December 04, 2012 03:32 PM (idE8D)

323 It's very hard to name movies made in the last 20 years which are made for adults. You can name a few, but they're few and far between.


I blame PG-13, which led to a lot of movies which should have just been R movies being watered/dumbed down to get the lower and more profitable rating.

Posted by: Brendan at December 04, 2012 03:38 PM (2jQGY)

324 Get some Brigitte Bardot films for the late 50s / early 60s and see what the hottest woman ever on film looks like.
Posted by: gary at December 04, 2012 03:31 PM (aUnng)

The hottest woman ever on film would be Hedy Lamarr, hands-down. Aside from being blindingly beautiful, she was also a genius inventor. And she had a great rack.

Posted by: troyriser at December 04, 2012 03:40 PM (vtiE6)

325 I always found Barbara Stanwyck in Double Indemnity to be the hottest character ever.

Posted by: eleven at December 04, 2012 03:45 PM (KXm42)

326 2001 is one of the greatest movies ever made. I've seen it beginning to
end more than once. I've never been bored--not for even a minute.


LIES.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 04, 2012 03:54 PM (SY2Kh)

327
Best movie I saw recently: Went the Day Well?

A World War II propaganda movie I saw online.

Posted by: Pete in TX at December 04, 2012 04:04 PM (U629B)

328 From the comments here, maybe they should do a "Desperado/2001" movie a la "Predator v. Alien".

The opening scene is Selma Hayek is nude in space and HAL kills Antonio Banderas.

The remaining 84 minutes is Selma Hayek nude in space.

Thoughts?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 04, 2012 04:07 PM (iAUf+)

329 It's very hard to name movies made in the last 20 years which are made
for adults. You can name a few, but they're few and far between.


You gotta switch to foreign movies. The following are some of the best films ever made:

I'm a Cyborg but That's Okay. (Korean)

Old Boy. (Korean)

The Mustache. (French)

Celebration. (Danish)

Mifune. (Danish)

Adam's Apples. (Danish)

Transylvania. (About ten European countries)

Against the Wall. (German)

Re-Cycle. (Chinese)

The Transporter (I, II, and III). (French-American)

Calvaire. (French)

Pulse. (Japanese)

Vital. (Japanese)

6ixtynin9. (Thai)

The Wishing Steps. (Korean)

Memento Mori. (Korean)

There are still great American films being made, too.

Breach.

Crank (I and II).

Infamous.

Up in the Air.

Intolerable Cruelty.

The Grudge.

Posted by: Llarry at December 04, 2012 04:12 PM (+QDEz)

330 Llarry:

Look up "Incendie". a French film that is full of twists and surprises. Set in an unnamed nation similar to Lebanon.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 04, 2012 04:15 PM (iAUf+)

331 #324: Agree. Hedy LaMarr in "Ecstasy" 1933.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 04, 2012 04:19 PM (iAUf+)

332 The Dude is right. I'm a screenwriter in this damnable town, too. This is the nice version. Imagine what he really wanted to say. When I first began a BIG Movie Star took me under his wing and gave me this advice, "Movie Execs are the dumbest people alive." It was an understatement.

Posted by: Bob at December 04, 2012 04:23 PM (cheRG)

333 I saw Lincoln at Thanksgiving. The dialogue was excellent. I was wondering if it was culled from historical documents.

Posted by: madamex at December 04, 2012 04:25 PM (+kvQd)

334 I forgot:

If you want to see a brilliant film about the love affair between an observant Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man, check out the Canadian production Sabah.

It's the only film about Islam I've ever seen that is totally un-politically correct and totally entertaining and non-polemical. It shows the warts and all without being melodramatic or smarmy. It doesn't beg for tolerance or assign blame. It simply presents a story about two people from radically different backgrounds.

Really terrific film.

Posted by: Llarry at December 04, 2012 04:28 PM (+QDEz)

335 That's *Hedley!*

(Sorry - had to be said)

Posted by: speedster1 at December 04, 2012 04:32 PM (v40Bj)

336 My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 04, 2012 04:39 PM (iAUf+)

337 Most movies rely on completely predictable plots/situations and cliche characters. It's rare that one can't figure out the exact path of the story within the first few minutes. Not advocating M. Night Shamalan-type twists, but just some originality and characters that aren't 100% virtuous vs. 100% evil, or a copy of characters we've seen in so many movies TV shows before.
I don't even need a movie to be highbrow to enjoy it, just well made for the type of movie that it is. I loved Independence Day because it was fun, and I also had fun watching Transformers 3 (in 3D) with my 9 yr. old son for the same reason. In both cases the filmmakers actors were actually trying to entertain.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 04, 2012 04:39 PM (kcbsg)

338 #337 AP

THAT'S the spirit!

Posted by: speedster1 at December 04, 2012 04:40 PM (v40Bj)

339
I'd like to put in a word for Bollywood films, too. Sure, they have their own cliches, and if you don't like musicals you're kind of sol,but they are made for grown-ups by and large. For example, Talaash, which I just saw a few days ago, is a middling-clever crime movie, but the real point of it is the detective resolving his guilt for failing to save his son's life. There's always some kind of serious family drama going on along with whatever genre stuff is happening, because that is what Indians think is important presumably.
Check your local theaters, a mainstream one in my area has suddenly started carrying them, maybe it's a national trend.
Oh, and I really liked Anna Karenina too, don't get the mixed reviews on that one. So beautiful up on the big screen, which is one of the few remaining reasons to keep seeing movies in the theater rather than at home.

Posted by: Dora at December 04, 2012 05:35 PM (0/Svj)

340 Want to know the only think in the past six months that have consistently brought me to the movie house?

Universal and Tinseltown showing classic movies on the big screen: Jaws, Dr. Zhivago, Lawrence of Arabia, Bridge on the River Kwai, and Young Frankenstein.

I am actually dreading Peter Jackson's newest movie.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 04, 2012 05:37 PM (osh8D)

341 Schlock that it was, there is more character development and thought in a Russ Meyer film than 99% of what Hollywood shits out.

Posted by: CAC at December 04, 2012 05:42 PM (jL2X7)

342 I am actually dreading Peter Jackson's newest movie.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 04, 2012 05:37 PM (osh8D)

I like Peter Jackson's old movies, the ones he made on a shoestring in New Zealandbefore he became big shakes in Hollywood, movies like 'Bad Taste', 'MeetThe Feebles',and 'Dead Alive'--especially 'Dead Alive'. I mean, come on, zombies vs lawnmowers. Classic stuff.

Posted by: troyriser at December 04, 2012 05:42 PM (vtiE6)

343 Cabin in the Woods was a solid nudge-nudge wink-wink that a lot of writers and directors realize Hollywood is killing itself.

Posted by: CAC at December 04, 2012 05:45 PM (jL2X7)

344 I am afraid that we are already living out Idiocracy. After all we just re-elected President Camacho.

Posted by: Eric at December 04, 2012 06:06 PM (81pqi)

345 Ace,

HWood flicks are made for the LCD of international audiences.

Americans are only placated because we still have the biggest microphone which gives us the ability to crush a movie's word-o'-mouth on the internets.

That blogger is copping out because his much vaunted career choice is turning out to be unfulfilling and embarrassing.

Studio execs are simps because they sign the back of the check, but love to act like their name goes on the front.

HWood is controlled by Wall Street, hedge funds and international investment.

It's New Coke on steroids. Marketing teams controlling the actual product by dictating what will and won't sell globally.


Posted by: Budfox at December 04, 2012 06:40 PM (9+DJg)

346 "Same thing with the Green Lantern. It's not enough to find out
you're MERELY a Green Lantern; no, you have to find out further that
you're destined to be the Greatest Green Lantern in all the Ten Thousand
Years of the Green Lantern Corps."

Notice the comic never did anything that lame. Green Lantern pissed off the other Lanterns and Guardians like clockwork.

Just proving the average big budget movie maker is not as smart as a kid writing comics. I would much rather have seen a Michael Bendis Avengers movie than Joss Whedon's.

Speaking of which, the only 17-year-old boys who went to that over and over again are the ones who noticed the Scarlet Johanssen nip-slip.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at December 04, 2012 08:49 PM (qvify)

347 The following feature is rated corn studded turd.

Posted by: i wouldn't buy that for a dollar at December 04, 2012 09:18 PM (Kflw4)

348
Part of the problem is that movies today are not just ABOUT young people, they are BY young people. By the time a writer gets old enough to actually learn something about adult life, he's washed up in Hollywood. A producer who doesn't already have a hit by 40 never will. A "veteran" director is one that, by definition, doesn't "get what today's kids arethinking." And of course, movies about 18 year old boys tend to star 18 year old boys (and girls), and you can only imagine how much THEIR input must be accomodated.
Hollywood stopped making movies for people over 40 because people over 40 stopped going to the movies, because Hollywood stopped making movies for people over 40. It's set in stone now:Front of camera, back of camera, above the line, below the line, audience, you name it - 40 is TOO OLD for Hollywood.

Posted by: Dave H at December 05, 2012 12:06 PM (k85z0)

349 I jumped ship and began watching foreign films some years ago. Most of the dialogue in Hollywood films brought the reactionof nails screeching on a blackboard. The plots have become so boringit was an effective cure for insomia.Occasionally, something original manages to emerge, but not during the last decade.
An interesting theory to explain the era of garbage films. You could also argue that a culture which no longer acknowledges and respectsits own heritage and history, lacks the depth to create good literature and art. Lacking access to the experiences and memories ofthe generalpopulation, we are reduced to plastic formulas and souless interpretations.
Think of the comparison between thepowerful Russian Literature produced pre-1917, and what emerged after the Bolshevik Revolution (with the exception of banned literature such as Dr. Zhivago or Solzhenitsyn's works). Soviet approved films, literature and art had the impact of endless bad commericials.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at December 06, 2012 05:36 AM (OTWsz)






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