If John Boehner Is Required To Give Up the Republicans' Most Cherished Pledge to Their Constituents, Why Does Harry Reid Feel No Heat To Do The Same Regarding the Democrats' Most Cherished Demogoguery?

Robert Samuelson asks "Who's not bargaining in good faith?"

Actually, only one side is even bargaining at all. Obama of course put up an absurd "offer" that was a walk-back of all the commitments he made to voters during campaign season. He had repeatedly claimed, in campaign season, he was willing to cut spending; his "offer" contained no cuts.

The "cuts" are a combination of cuts already made -- the $900 billion already agreed to -- and the "cuts" in military spending for wars we're not fighting in Iraq and soon Afghanistan. These aren't "cuts" to current spending -- it's assumed we won't be spending them, because we won't be.

Furthermore, he claimed repeated in campaign season that of course he was willing to look at entitlement reform; he claimed he just wanted it to be part of a "balanced approach." Well, he's more or less got the "balance" he wanted -- a tax hike on the rich -- but is no longer willing to entertain entitlement reform.

Meanwhile, Obama's demands on taxes have gone from:

$400 billion -- the figure Boehner agreed to before the debt ceiling battle, which Obama blew up by upping the ante after Harry Reid demanded he do so.

$800 billion -- the figure Harry Reid demanded, so that Republicans would refuse, and so he wouldn't be required to sell any entitlement reform.

$1.6 trillion -- the new figure, again created precisely so that Republicans can't accept it, thus putting off any need for actual reform.

Double, double, toil and trouble.

This is what America voted for. I'm in a DIAF frame of mind.

Posted by: Ace at 03:13 PM



Comments

1 The first shall be the last

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at December 03, 2012 03:14 PM (cgxNI)

2 First?

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 03, 2012 03:14 PM (i177X)

3
"Balance" THIS approach!

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at December 03, 2012 03:15 PM (cgxNI)

4 I'm in a DIAF frame of mind.

---

Special on matches and kerosene...

Let it burn.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 03, 2012 03:16 PM (e0xKF)

5 Why?
Because you're a racist. Now shut up

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 03, 2012 03:16 PM (HDgX3)

6 Damnit, the last time I try that I guess.

Fine, I'll add content:

Great, WE all realize that, how do we get the LIV's to see this. Since even if Republican's "negotiate" their asses off (let's say hypothetically offer $1 in actual cuts for every $100 in revenue as a "negotiation").*
Obama scoffs (or SCOAMFs) we go off the cliff. LIV's will think it was the Republican's fault.

*NOTE: I wouldn't actually offer this deal, my point is, and an absurdly insane pander to Obama deal, and I'd be he'd reject it out of hand. But strangely we're the one's not negotiating?! WTF?

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 03, 2012 03:17 PM (i177X)

7 The Ewok is a fan of LiB? Does that add or detract from the credibility of the movement?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 03, 2012 03:17 PM (da5Wo)

8 DIAF?

I'm unfamiliar with the term. If it involves matches and hommade napalm, I'm in.

Posted by: JollyRoger at December 03, 2012 03:17 PM (t06LC)

9 America, and in perticular the hundreds of thousands of people who cast extra votes in key swing states, did not vote for this.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 03:18 PM (I2LwF)

10 you notice that the two donks lied their asses off during debates. What they did and what they planned on doing.

of course, the msm didn't call them on it.

I guess Romney's strategy of french kissing obama in last two debates didn't work so well.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:18 PM (QxSug)

11 fukkit

Posted by: maddogg at December 03, 2012 03:18 PM (OlN4e)

12 All the more reason to Burn It Down.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:18 PM (GQ8sn)

13 Erah, that made no sense.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 03:19 PM (I2LwF)

14 The benefit of obama spitting in boehner's eye is that boehner can go back to square one and stop negotiating against himself.

I hate these posts that start with "The GOP needs to X" because X is usually impossible.

My X right now is that the GOP needs to stop acceding to the Obama manage by crisis style of governance.

Stop crisis mode for Christ's sake and govern responsibly.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:19 PM (QxSug)

15 Republicans are in a superior position here. they just need to do it right.

We will raise revenue. Ok dems, what are you going to do?? If dems are not serious, THEN PASS SIMPSON-BOWLES wholecloth and tell zero to fuck himself.

Americans need to feel the pain of socialism. Tax rates are too fucking progressive as is. If clinton walks on water then who gives a fuck if we all go back to those rates.

IT'S PRETTY EASY TO HANDLE THIS....
Oh,
Marco Rubio-Tom Cotton 2016!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Prescient11 at December 03, 2012 03:20 PM (tVTLU)

16 He knows the MFM has his back and the stupid sheep will believe them.

Posted by: Vic at December 03, 2012 03:20 PM (YdQQY)

17 you notice that every obama legislative, governing move has either been:

a panic move because of impending doom, we can't wait.

or

done in the dark of night behind closed doors.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:20 PM (QxSug)

18 Republicans never learn. Democrats like during the election then 3 nanoseconds after they win , they go back on the promises made. Republicans for some idiotic reason actually tell the truth during campaigns.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 03, 2012 03:21 PM (HDgX3)

19 The plan from the beginning, no Bush tax cuts for anyone and sequestration. WTF.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 03, 2012 03:21 PM (3Y7RV)

20
Who's not bargaining in good faith?

You're coming around, Mr. Samuelson.

Remember: feature, not bug.

Posted by: crisis du jour at December 03, 2012 03:21 PM (J1eJz)

21 I think the benefit of election slaughter was that the GOP has been culled to safest house members. They don't care what the MSM thinks.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:21 PM (QxSug)

22 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:22 PM (5DR1j)

23 When I find myself in times of trouble
Mr. Breitbart makes a return
Speaking words of wisdom, let it burn
And in my hour of darkness
His spirit refuses to adjourn
Speaking words of wisdom, let it burn
Let it burn, let it burn
Let it burn, let it burn
Whipser words of wisdom, let it burn

Posted by: Hard Right at December 03, 2012 03:22 PM (uhftQ)

24 My point is, it was stolen. These illegitimate fucks need to get broomed, politically speaking.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 03:22 PM (I2LwF)

25
I heard some idiot today: Republicans are stonewalling and going to cause the cliff to blow up or some shit.
This is most dangerous type of voter...not so much "low info", but "Enemedia info'd".

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:22 PM (85EaA)

26 >>>Actually, only one side is even bargaining at all.

IOW, business as usual

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 03, 2012 03:22 PM (3ZtZW)

27 I not impressed with these folks in congress. No sir. Not at all.

Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 03:22 PM (YRq5F)

28 15
Republicans are in a superior position here. they just need to do it right.

____

No. Republicans SHOULD have the upper hand. But the leaders of the the party are about the worst negotiators/PR people in the history of the world. You don't with these battles by having better ideas. You win by telling a better story. And Republicans suck at story telling while Obama excels.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 03, 2012 03:22 PM (HDgX3)

29 Because Reid is getting no heat, obviously and predictably. And because Boehner, like every nearly republican, is a fearful, pathetic and unimaginative simp pulverized into a conditioned state of inferiority and submission by the Progressive nomenklatura.

Posted by: rrpjr at December 03, 2012 03:23 PM (u5Cwi)

30 This is what America voted for. I'm in a DIAF frame of mind.

This. People voted in the exact same people (with very few changes) who were in charge already. If they had wanted change in either direction, they would have either voted in more Democrats to Congress, or voted for Mitt Romney. They did neither.

Let. It. Burn.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:24 PM (5DR1j)

31 @22 but he's president for at least next 2 years. Lolz, election 2014 should be based on impeachment votes.

What I've said, lolz, is true, the GOP should go hard right and state that Obama lied about every position taken during campaign.

If economic/fiscal cliff is economic terrorism, then that applies to the other side too.

ok, back to reals-ville. House GOP might notice that Obama is peeing on their legs and calling it rain. Bring in the big gun negotiators.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:24 PM (QxSug)

32
Just stop bargaining. Don't allow anything to come to the floor.

The public doesn't understand process. Just blame Obama for not doing anything and move on.

Then start blaming Obamacare.

The Obamacare Recession™.

Posted by: MJ at December 03, 2012 03:24 PM (TR60b)

33 This kind of goes along with that awesome Mark Steyn column posted on the sidebar this past weekend, the one about taxes being raised so much it would only cover a fraction of our entitlement obligation. Short version: we were fucked a long time ago and the tip is already in.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:24 PM (GQ8sn)

34 Insane times are a comin. We have no control, none.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at December 03, 2012 03:24 PM (3Y7RV)

35 Because voters do not want cuts to SS medicare, or medicaid. Period.

GOP leaders, spell out to the public exactly what you want, then both sides can negotiate. That's how a negotiation works.

Posted by: Olaf at December 03, 2012 03:24 PM (t1NLo)

36 I read the second-to-last line as Douche, douche, toil and trouble.

Which is somewhat appropriate when discussing politicians anyway...

Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at December 03, 2012 03:24 PM (cdYeu)

37 Cutting spending begins with torching Old Lady Semple's pension check.

TRASHCAN MAN 2016.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 03, 2012 03:25 PM (+yYvY)

38 but demographics is destiny and the USA has been sitting by since 1965 as we turn into mexico, so here we are, banana republic, eh?

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:25 PM (QxSug)

39 But the leaders of the the party are about the worst negotiators/PR people in the history of the world.

---

I think you're selling me short.

Posted by: Neville Chamberlain at December 03, 2012 03:25 PM (e0xKF)

40 You know how the song "Let It Snow" goes?

Replace that with "Let it burn."

Let it burn, let it burn, let it buuuuuuuuuuuuuurn!

Posted by: Christina Hendricks's Mighty Jugs are Really SMOD in Disguise at December 03, 2012 03:25 PM (16UJh)

41 Cutting spending begins with torching Old Lady Semple's pension check.



TRASHCAN MAN 2016.


CIBOLA!!!

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:25 PM (GQ8sn)

42 There should be a test to prove worthy to vote in a free society. You're free to be free, but you can't have say in who leads because you're too stupid for your own good.

I weep for my country and my children.

Posted by: © Sponge at December 03, 2012 03:26 PM (UK9cE)

43 GOP has gerrymandered itself a majority until 2020. They don't seem to understand that. Democrats actually got more votes yet the GOP controls the house. In other words, the GOP can't lose for the next 4 house elections. In other orther words, don't worry about what the MSM thinks, vote the right way.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 03, 2012 03:26 PM (HDgX3)

44 Posted by: © Sponge at December 03, 2012 03:26 PM (UK9cE)

No Representation without Taxation!

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (lZBBB)

45

DIAF: Dig in and fire?

Allen West-Trey Gowdy '16

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (XkWWK)

46 But the best thing republicans can do is walk away, and tell everyone who will listen that they won't come back to the table until the democrats come up with a less racist bargaining position.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (I2LwF)

47 Yeah I'm to the point where I want everyone that voted for this asshole to suffer.

Posted by: Mr Pink at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (s1HE4)

48 @38

Nah, Mexico has tough immigration laws and frowns on illegal immigration.

Posted by: JollyRoger at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (t06LC)

49
Told y'all before--the hill to die on for Repubs is NOT having a hill to die on.

Refer to numerous examples bearing this out.


So it's back to the local level where people like you and me actually CAN make a difference. Our own version of the long march.

Gonna take a while, but it's doable.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (SAMxH)

50 35
Because voters do not want cuts to SS medicare, or medicaid. Period.


__________

Because voters think 1+1 = 18. That's the only way SS, Medicare and Medicaid don't get cut. You can raise taxes to 100% on everyone making $250K+ and those 3 will still have a combined deficit of $30T.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (HDgX3)

51 Simpson-Bowles is the only way to go. If it passes, it's still a pretty decent outcome. If the Dem's veto it, they own the consequences of going over the fiscal cliff.



Posted by: Stirner at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (Ytuz8)

52 Republicans are in a superior position here. they just need to do it right.


So. We're fucked then.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (VtjlW)

53 >>>Mr. Breitbart makes a return

I would give anything for him and Chris Hitchens to be back, even for a short time. Others can disagree but I admired both.

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 03, 2012 03:28 PM (3ZtZW)

54 Hollywood windfall tax.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at December 03, 2012 03:29 PM (AWmfW)

55 Mr. Moo Moo.

Yep, sounds right, how can we lose election by 5 million votes, all the senate seats and still keep house.

Except for massive voter fraud in Donk voting districts, which is crazy, of course.

Demographics downfall it is, one can only hope that in the next 10 years, our replacement american overlords and the mexican vichy government will come to their collective senses.

but then I lolzed cause that ain't going to happen.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:29 PM (QxSug)

56 49 Posted by: irongrampa at December 03, 2012 03:27 PM (SAMxH)

It starts in the school boards and at the dining room table. Demand to know what your kids are learning at school. Demand to know what they watch on TV. Demand to know what they are looking at/listening to on the computer.

Also, now would be a good time for some Republicans somewhere to engage with the black ministers; especially the ones who put up the anti Democrat video.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:30 PM (XkWWK)

57 Tell everyone how Obama has a fun to the heads of black children. Tell them he wants the Hispanic race to die out. Point to all the neauveau riche of color and tell american he wants colored people in chains.

Blast them with charges of racism.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 03:30 PM (I2LwF)

58 So this administration will keep doubling down on stupid until the whole place blows up. Wonderful.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 03, 2012 03:31 PM (osh8D)

59 Can Boehner once, just once have presser where he points out that raising taxes on the evil rich (mainly white) people making $250K+ takes care of 8% of the deficit? And that's assuming the tax increases don't lead to less income to tax which is almost a given.

Story telling. It's how you win political battles. Republicans suck at telling a story.


Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 03, 2012 03:31 PM (HDgX3)

60 right, after all, Mexico is a civilized society that is not intent on self-destruction by importing its impoverished and ignorant neighbors to the south.

not being sarc

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:31 PM (QxSug)

61 >>>Because voters do not want cuts to SS medicare, or medicaid. Period.

Drove by a poorly-attended protest to that effect today. I was going to flip them off but, you know, **old people**. And, anyway, nobody will have it after they're done with it anyhow

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 03, 2012 03:32 PM (3ZtZW)

62 Boehner's latest letter- http://1.usa.gov/Rx5tNB

Posted by: 80sBaby at December 03, 2012 03:32 PM (YjDyJ)

63 They won with broken bottles in back alleys. If we keep insisting on Marquis of Queensbury Rules, we will continue to be fucked.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 03:32 PM (I2LwF)

64 Cutting spending begins with torching Old Lady Semple's pension check.


I don't wet the bed!!1!!11!


often

Posted by: bladder control fluffy at December 03, 2012 03:32 PM (z9HTb)

65 **Because voters do not want cuts to SS medicare, or medicaid. Period. **

no. they want free obama phones and fee pills.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:32 PM (QxSug)

66
They won with broken bottles in back alleys. If we keep insisting on Marquis of Queensbury Rules, we will continue to be fucked.

Any other way ain't...gentlemanly.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:33 PM (85EaA)

67
Reid doesn't do it because he doesn't have to: he knows repubs flip like a cheap mattress.

Posted by: Walkers! at December 03, 2012 03:33 PM (e/Cti)

68 Let Mr. Obama own this disaster.

He can spend his second term like the first- blaming everyone else.

Yes, he was a terrible President for eight years because everybody hates him.

Yeah and one-third of the government is Republicans. But ignore the Democrat Senate hasn't done shit for three years. Or the President hasn't passed a budget. Ever.

Oh, if only he could do everything he wanted the world would be a better place.

BTW- When has a President been able to do everything he wanted without negotiating with other branches? When did that last happen ever?

Posted by: marcus at December 03, 2012 03:33 PM (GGCsk)

69 Allen West-Trey Gowdy '16
Hmm, I like that idea. Easy on the eyes too.

Posted by: Infidel at December 03, 2012 03:33 PM (O/fK8)

70 American Thinker had an article that pretty well sums up what's going to happen. The congress will draw this out until a few days before Christmas and then the repubs will cave so that they can go on vaca.

It'll be another Ocare-like voting debacle. The dems will win the grand prize....once again.

Please, repubs. If you can't negotiate, at least have the balls to look at a camera and tell the American people that everything is going to burn.

Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 03:34 PM (YRq5F)

71 People don't want cuts to SS because they've been paying into it for their entire working lives and want the promise of that money back. I don't blame anyone for wanting SS. I've been paying into it for 45 years and it pisses me off to no end that I'll not see one dime of it back.

The rest just want their FREE SHIT.

"Everyone votin minority gets an Obamaphone!!!!"

- Future Mayor of Cincinnati Ohio.

Posted by: © Sponge at December 03, 2012 03:34 PM (UK9cE)

72
When has a President been able to do everything he wanted without negotiating with other branches? When did that last happen ever?

Pretty much every day since January2009

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:35 PM (85EaA)

73 O'Bumbles is worse than that guy on Pawn Stars! Republicans are not getting even $5Billion for that $1Trillion in tax hikes they'll OK. That's how those Pawn Stars roll. They'll say there's no market for those Tax Cuts.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at December 03, 2012 03:35 PM (71LDo)

74 Any other way ain't...gentlemanly.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:33 PM (85EaA)


Fuck gentlemanly. I want my country back.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 03, 2012 03:35 PM (da5Wo)

75
Who gives a fuck?

Let it burn.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at December 03, 2012 03:36 PM (pPjld)

76 "Let Mr. Obama own this disaster."

He cares. Bad things happen, it's not his fault.

Posted by: 2012 America at December 03, 2012 03:36 PM (zpqa2)

77 Boehner's latest letter


I'll drink to that!

Posted by: fluffy at December 03, 2012 03:36 PM (z9HTb)

78 69 Allen West-Trey Gowdy '16
Hmm, I like that idea. Easy on the eyes too.
Posted by: Infidel at December 03, 2012 03:33 PM (O/fK


They both are excellent communicators to regular folks, highly intelligent, great off the cuff, can stick it to the MFM and are both staunch conservatives.

I really like both of these guys and I think it can be a great ticket - if we can overthrow the Republican establishment first.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:37 PM (XkWWK)

79
Fuck gentlemanly. I want my country back.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 03, 2012 03:35 PM (da5Wo)
=====
Oh I agree. I wish somebody had the balls to get medieval.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:37 PM (85EaA)

80 The "no tax" pledge is to their constituents, Grover Norquist just administered it.

Some people must think that when you swear an oath in court that you promise the bailiff to tell the truth, rather then the court.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at December 03, 2012 03:37 PM (e8kgV)

81 7 The Ewok is a fan of LiB? Does that add or detract from the credibility of the movement?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 03, 2012 03:17 PM (da5Wo)


There are multiple flavors of LIB - some basically call for throwing gasoline and matches around to kick off a new revolution while others are essentially just standing aside and letting the Democrats dig their own hole.

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 03, 2012 03:37 PM (pAlYe)

82 if we can overthrow the Republican establishment first.


And, therein lies the problem.

Posted by: Infidel at December 03, 2012 03:38 PM (O/fK8)

83 We need to really let it register that old rules no longer apply. We're dreaming if we think there is any way to win the game we are playing. WE are the ones being played.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 03, 2012 03:38 PM (zpqa2)

84 79 Oh I agree. I wish somebody had the balls to get medieval.
Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:37 PM (85EaA)


This is the irony; that we have to go against our principles and fight dirty in order to save a civil society that plays by the rules.

I really really hate the leftists.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:39 PM (XkWWK)

85 Because I won. And how do you feel about movies about gladiators?

Posted by: Harry "Creepy Van" Reid at December 03, 2012 03:39 PM (RD7QR)

86
When I find myself in times of trouble Mr. Regan makes a return Speaking words of wisdom, let it burn And in my hour of darkness His spirit refuses to adjourn Speaking words of wisdom, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn Whipser words of wisdom, let it burn

And when the thick headed people
Finally show some concern
There will be an answer, let it burn
For tho they are retarded
There is still a chance they’ll learn
There will be an answer, let it burn
Let it burn, let it burn
Let it burn, let it burn
There will be an answer, let it burn
Let it burn, let it burn
Let it burn, let it burn

Whipser words of wisdom, let it burn

Posted by: Hard Right at December 03, 2012 03:39 PM (uhftQ)

87 Maybe I should be in charge of negotiations with the White House.

I want to see if my nest egg is safe.

Posted by: Dr. Christian Szell at December 03, 2012 03:39 PM (e0xKF)

88 82 And, therein lies the problem.
Posted by: Infidel at December 03, 2012 03:38 PM (O/fK

Well, we've got about 3 y

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:39 PM (XkWWK)

89 88 Oops. Kitteh invasion.

We've got about a 3 years to make something happen.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:40 PM (XkWWK)

90 I prefer the witty colloquialism, FOADIAF. It has a certain joie de vivre that the standalone FOAD or DIAFboth lack.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (4df7R)

91 the problem is demographic. The landscape is this: The donks own the cities and the GOP owns the burbs. Well, not the rich burbs but most of them.

If the GOP realizes that they need to get the rich burbs along with the proles, then maybe they can be rebranded.

The problem is the city voter fraud, turnout model is such that we can only win the house because you can't pretend to bus the entire city out to the sticks to vote.

Since voter fraud doesn't really exist (and especially not with same day voter registration or early voter registration (my point being the cities will continue to be maxed out blue)) the only option is figure out a burb and rural turnout model that maxes out the red countryside.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (QxSug)

92 We have been enduring an era of intolerable acts of our government
and much like Great Britain of the late 1700's which led to the convening
of the first continental congress, we are quickly coming to a point where
action will be necessary to reverse this condition and restore our rightful
place as free men and not slaves, because that is what the federal
government seeks to turn us into - SLAVES

The British government instituted the Stamp Act and the Townshend Acts
as a way for the colonies to pay for their "fair share" of the costs of
maintaining the British Empire, we suffer under these same sentiments
and conditions as our rulers seek to increasingly burden the most productive
among us with confiscatory taxation and onerous regulation to pay for the
maintenance of the least productive among us under the guise of fairness.

I am calling on our so-called representatives to pledge the following

1 -We will not offer or sign onto any legislation that raises taxes, alters tax
rates, creates new taxes, raises fees, creates new fees or any scheme or
plan to increase monies flowing into the federal government from the
citizens, businesses and corporations of the United States wherever they
may reside.

2 - We will not offer or sign onto any legislation that creates and or
alters regulations, rules, codes that would impose a limit, constrain
a right, impose a duty, allocate a responsibility on any citizen, business
or corporation of the United States wherever they may reside.

3 - We will not offer or sign onto any legislation that would result in
the full implementation of the "Affordable Care Act"

4 - We will not allow to leave committee or confirm any judicial appointee
of the President of the United States.

5 - We will not offer or sign any legislation that creates any new agency, office,
czar or otherwise increases the size, scope and reach of the federal government.


This is what I want from my so-called representatives, I want them to stand
athwart these outrages and usurpations and yell - STOP!


We've made too many compromises already, signed onto too many grand bargains.

They seek to tax more and more and we compromise.

They seek to regulate and take away our liberty and we compromise.

Not again!

The line must be drawn here!

This far, no farther!

And we will make them pay for what they've done!

Posted by: General Woundwort at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (RrD4h)

93 I see options for the GOP in the House:

The first is to just pass Simpson-Bowles. Just throw it in Harry Reid's lap and let them squirm.

The second is the House GOP's "nuclear option": Pass a single bill that reduced middle income taxes. And then go home. While taxes for everyone else will still go up like they would in a "let it burn" or a "just walk away" stategy, the House GOP would be able to show that they don't want to stick it to the middle class, AND, most importantly, they wouldn't actually vote to raise taxes. See here:
http://tinyurl.com/c7mutur

These can only succeed if they House GOP lines up the votes, and then does it at the last minute and then go home. They Dems will either have to accept or take the blame for higher taxes on the middle class, c.

Posted by: The Political Hat at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (XvHmy)

94 remember the TIME on C-SPAN when the Republicans negotiated with the Democrats and got NOTHING to show for it?

Posted by: jakeman plover at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (96M6e)

95
Boner should hold a press conference and say that's he's willing to go along with anything TFG wants until the end of his (Boner's) current term which expires in two years.

Then, if the UE hasn't gone down to what it was in Jan. 2009, and the GDP isn't what it was for 2007-2008 average, then TFG tries it the Pubbie way and signs all the bills that have died on Hairy Reed's desk.

It's done in the sunshine and it's fair. It absolves the Pubbies of any responsibility and stops them from getting scapegoated for the Obama Depression to come. We also get to watch it burn, so there's that.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 03, 2012 03:43 PM (yiIja)

96 We've got about a 3 years to make something happen.

I'm not that optimistic. In fact, I hope we have 18 months to 2 years.

My version of LiB: Make provisions, as quickly as possible, to support myself and my family with as little outside support as as possible. To whit- get the family farm back up and running ASAP.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:43 PM (5DR1j)

97
I will NEVER break my most cherished pledge, i.e. my pledge to roughly roger every rugrat I come in contact with!

Posted by: Harry (the Kiddie Diddler) Reid at December 03, 2012 03:43 PM (ggRof)

98 The line must be drawn here!

Just like in the old Yosemite Sam/Bugs Bunny gag.

Posted by: jakeman at December 03, 2012 03:43 PM (96M6e)

99 Any other way ain't...gentlemanly. Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:33 PM (85EaA)

I would direct your attention to the H.L. Mencken quote that adorns the HQ's banner.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at December 03, 2012 03:44 PM (4df7R)

100 and as for no-tax pledge, Obamanomics has cleaved revenue from spending.

there is no relationship. He's spending more money than we can print to pay off his donors and voter base.

Spending is the only thing that matter.

A smart GOP would give up 90% tax rate for asshole rich people who vote donk anyway for spending reductions that take away Obama's stash.

This is it. Kill the slush fund. Nothing else maters.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:44 PM (QxSug)

101
I'm hoping that the House Repswill stand firm and not increase the Debt Limit.
It's high enough already.

If Barky and the Senate Dems want to 'shut down the government' like spoiled brats...then so be it!
Shut it down.

But can TFG then declare an 'emergency' and just raise the Debt Limit on his own?

Posted by: wheatie at December 03, 2012 03:44 PM (CM59X)

102 "I see options for the GOP in the House"

MFM would be quick to portray GOP as bombthrowers, extremist, and "unserious."

This is a losing game. Boner wept.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 03, 2012 03:45 PM (zpqa2)

103
Funny. Liabilities exceed 70 trillion.

It's over. Wormer won. Let it burn.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at December 03, 2012 03:45 PM (pPjld)

104
On a national level, maybe we should scream about NO BUDGET for 3 years--and everyone knows that in order to straighten out the financial house, a budget is where you begin.

Perhaps bring up one of the budgets that were ignored and base negotiations on that?

Or is that too logical?

Posted by: irongrampa at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (SAMxH)

105 There are multiple flavors of LIB - some basically call for throwing
gasoline and matches around to kick off a new revolution while others
are essentially just standing aside and letting the Democrats dig their
own hole.



This deserves its own post. "Let it Burn" is a slogan, not a specific plan. LiB is vague enough to mean what you want it to mean.

Posted by: fluffy at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (z9HTb)

106 We didn't win the Revolution by always following the European rules of war. Neither did the British, look at the prison ships many ended up in.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (osh8D)

107 Oh I agree. I wish somebody had the balls to get medieval.
Posted by: USS Diversity at December 03, 2012 03:37 PM (85EaA)


-----------------------------------------------


If this even starts to becoming medieval nationally, the innertubes will be shut off.

That's why it's imperitive that one become involved with the local Tea Party, Freedom Works, your local gun dealerships, and, yes, even a loosely bound militia if there's one around. For people living in red states, get involved, or at least start communicating with your governors and legislatures.

We're living in a lawless country now. We need to start responding as such.

Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (YRq5F)

108 @AllenG,

Excellent, because my version of LiB is to find you and live on your farm .

(I kid, I kid, I'm fairly creative, I imagine I can figure something out.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (i177X)

109 If the people trust the MFM then it's all lost any way.

GOP house is safe. for now.

Cut the spending. cut it all, cut it without remorse.

Obama spends too much money, and we've seen no growth from it. Who cares?

spending has no relationship to taxes so it doesn't matter. Obamanomics is simply printing money.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (QxSug)

110 But can TFG then declare an 'emergency' and just raise the Debt Limit on his own?
Posted by: wheatie at December 03, 2012 03:44 PM (CM59X)


My answer would be he SHOULDN'T be able to. But this is Obama, and he can do whatever he damn well wants.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (4df7R)

111 92 Posted by: General Woundwort at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (RrD4h)

Well spoken.

And just in case Boehner retreats, we need a few figurative NKVD divisions to block them and "encourage" them to turn around. Rhetorically speaking of course.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:47 PM (XkWWK)

112 @104. again, election 2012 strategy was to not bother with details like that.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:47 PM (QxSug)

113 >>>This is the irony; that we have to go against our principles and fight dirty in order to save a civil society that plays by the rules.

Thats how it always is, and is sometimes a higher moral impulse than having a stick up your butt and staying pure. Dirty, unfair example from the extreme to see it better: People who hid jews during WWII could have run away so as to not dirty themselves living under a fascist regime, but some chose to stay and help some left behind. What I'm saying is, the wider view may make for rough choices, but they must be the correct ones to prevent a larger, uglier future or to salvage what's left anyhow. It does fkng depress the Hell out of me.

Posted by: uterus cannon at December 03, 2012 03:47 PM (3ZtZW)

114 I will get this right eventually

When I find myself in times of trouble Mr.Regan makes a return Speaking words of wisdom, let it burn And in my hour of darkness His spirit refuses to adjourn Speaking words of wisdom, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn Whipser words of wisdom, let it burn
And when the thick headed people Finally show some concern There will be an answer, let it burn For tho they are retarded There is still a chance they’ll learn There will be an answer, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn There will be an answer, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn Let it burn, let it burn Whipser words of wisdom, let it burn

Posted by: Hard Right at December 03, 2012 03:47 PM (uhftQ)

115 107 Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (YRq5F)

Agreed.

And I dare you to post that at Tepid Air!!!!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:48 PM (XkWWK)

116 Oh, if anyone sees AtC, her letter over at DPUD rose to the tippy top of BadBlue's page at around 3:15 this afternoon.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 03, 2012 03:48 PM (yiIja)

117 I prefer the witty colloquialism, FOADIAF. It has a certain joie de vivre that the standalone FOAD or DIAFboth lack.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (4df7R)



It does have a certain je ne sais qua, does it not?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 03, 2012 03:49 PM (VtjlW)

118 (I kid, I kid, I'm fairly creative, I imagine I can figure something out.)

First you find a prison.

Then you clear out one of the cellblocks, making sure to avoid getting bitten.

Then you-

Wait, what? That's from "The Walking Dead?" We aren't in the middle of a zombie apocalypse?

Well, okay. Then just do the same thing, but instead of avoiding getten bitten, try not to get shivved.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at December 03, 2012 03:49 PM (4df7R)

119
103
Cicero is right, it really doesn't matter. 70 trillion will not be paid, not even if all income were confiscated.

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 03, 2012 03:49 PM (R8hU8)

120 TFG's offer is worse than you even think. I'll keep repeating this -- they keep mixing 10 year 'plans' with 1 year plans. His offer of $400 billion in cuts is over a 10 year period (same period as the $1.6 trillion in tax increases) while his 'stimulus spending' want of $50 billion is over a 1 year period.

In other words, his cut isn't a cut at all under any scenario, since that is an average of $40 billion/yr is offset by $50 billion in new spending. Result -- $160 billion in new taxes plus $10 billion in new net spending, even if we agree that those 'cuts' are actually cuts.

This shit of mixing 10 year and 1 year numbers has got to stop. Quit playing their g.d. game and report the numbers consistently for the same time frame.

Posted by: GnuBreed, barking up the wrong 54 trees at December 03, 2012 03:49 PM (ccXZP)

121 Oh, if anyone sees AtC, her letter over at DPUD rose to the tippy top of BadBlue's page at around 3:15 this afternoon.


Okay, I'm (further) revealing my idiocy, but what's BadBlue?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 03, 2012 03:49 PM (VtjlW)

122 BTW, when I say I'm for letting it burn, I basically mean:

1. Let country collapse/default
2. Riots/Looting from those living on handouts
3. Red states secede after having enough of violence
4. Red states unite behind Texas, form new union
5. Red states invade blue states, burn Chicago and DC to ground
6. New United States emerge with a diminished population of clueless fucks who don't know math
7. PROFIT!

Any questions?

Posted by: Christina Hendricks's Mighty Jugs are Really SMOD in Disguise at December 03, 2012 03:49 PM (16UJh)

123 98 Just like in the old Yosemite Sam/Bugs Bunny gag.
Posted by: jakeman at December 03, 2012 03:43 PM (96M6e)


Y'know, sometimes me conscience kind'a bothers me.

BUT NOT THIS TIME! (pulls mattress away at last second)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 03, 2012 03:50 PM (XkWWK)

124 Thats how it always is, and is sometimes a higher moral impulse than having a stick up your butt and staying pure.

I'm reminded of the Resistance guy in Equilibrium talking to Christian Bale's character. I don't remember the quote, but it boiled down to, "Some of us have to sacrifice our humanity [in their case: emotion -ag] to protect the rest." The idea being that there have to be those willing to "stoop to their level" if the rest are going to avoid having to do that.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:50 PM (5DR1j)

125 obamanomics

spend all you want, we'll print more.

everything is a crisis, there is no time to waste, pass the bill now.

GOP House: Slow down there, hoss.

The loss of those 2012 senate seats is extremely painful, we needed to have a sensible senate to do a budget with.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:50 PM (QxSug)

126 Or is that too logical?


Posted by: irongrampa at December 03, 2012 03:46 PM (SAMxH)

Today's electorate does not understand the concept of government this nation was built on, e.g., House=appropriations, Senate=budget, Exec=leadership etc.
All they understand is what's spoonfed: GOP=bad/obstructionist, Dems/Obama=want to do the right thing/caring
It's over.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at December 03, 2012 03:50 PM (zpqa2)

127 I'm not that optimistic. In fact, I hope we have 18 months to 2 years.My version of LiB: Make provisions, as quickly as possible, to support myself and my family with as little outside support as as possible. To whit- get the family farm back up and running ASAP.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:43 PM (5DR1j)


--------------------------------------------


I've heard the government has some great farm start-up subsidies to do that.

Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 03:50 PM (YRq5F)

128 You'll leave my pills on top of the cliff, right? Right? I don't want my pills going over the cliff. I need those pills.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at December 03, 2012 03:51 PM (71LDo)

129 I'm reminded of the Resistance guy in Equilibrium talking to Christian Bale's character.

Yates.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:51 PM (GQ8sn)

130 It does have a certain je ne sais qua, does it not?
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 03, 2012 03:49 PM (VtjlW)


It does, it does. Quite the devilish little bon mot.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at December 03, 2012 03:51 PM (4df7R)

131 @122, more like this TFG bombs the fuck out of any red state that tries to secede.

BTW, alaska is more likely to go first.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:51 PM (QxSug)

132 Fuck my typing.

Yeats.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:51 PM (GQ8sn)

133 I've heard the government has some great farm start-up subsidies to do that.

They don't. Of course, they do have lots of low-interest loans. And if the whole government goes defunct, there won't be anyone to collect...

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:52 PM (5DR1j)

134 Rush had a frightening thought based upon the Buffet rule. If the new alternate minimum tax is that you have to pay an effective rate of, say, 30%, that will act as an increase in taxes without out looking like one. The trick is that whatever your income, you get the benefit of all of the lower tax rates up until you get to your highest marginal tax rate. All well and good but if you have the obligation to pay an effective tax rate of 30%, then you will get no benefit from the lower steps as you go into higher income. The beauty of this is that the Rethugs could agree to this and truthfully argue to their base that they did not allow taxes rates to be increased for anyone. The Donks could truthfully tell their base that they had increased taxes.

The economy gets hurt, the country gets hurt, the people get hurt, but both the Rethugs and the Donks come out smelling like a rose.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 03, 2012 03:52 PM (Hx5uv)

135 My Queen:http://badblue.bitnamiapp.com/trendr8.htm

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 03, 2012 03:52 PM (yiIja)

136
105 There are multiple flavors of LIB - some basically call for throwing
gasoline and matches around to kick off a new revolution while others
are essentially just standing aside and letting the Democrats dig their
own hole.




This deserves its own post. "Let it Burn" is a slogan, not a specific plan. LiB is vague enough to mean what you want it to mean.

-----------

This!
Yes, please.
Because it would be nice to know what is meant by 'Let it Burn'.

Some of us have attempted to define what we mean by it.
But I don't think there is any sort of unified version of it.

Posted by: wheatie at December 03, 2012 03:53 PM (CM59X)

137 Cutteth and Pasteth with haste...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at December 03, 2012 03:53 PM (yiIja)

138 This!
Yes, please.
Because it would be nice to know what is meant by 'Let it Burn'.

Some of us have attempted to define what we mean by it.
But I don't think there is any sort of unified version of it.


Tomorrow's 2000 word post coming online around 1-2PM EST.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:53 PM (GQ8sn)

139 I'm in a DIAF frame of mind.


Mine as well use the US dollar to keep it burning.

After, all, that is what the government does anyway, burn money with no benefits.

And, alas, they are thinking of ditching the paper $1 dollar bill, so, meh....

Let it all burn.

Posted by: beach & a kindle at December 03, 2012 03:54 PM (LpQbZ)

140 Boehner needs to realize he's going to get blamed for any pain because that whats the asshole media does...NBC is already running B.S stories just like they did with Reagan in 1981-2 on tax cuts-it's what they do for their masters.
Boehner needs to realize it's not going away because the Administration is rotten with dead enders when it comes to socialism.
Let It Burn.

Posted by: jjshaka at December 03, 2012 03:54 PM (UcHeM)

141 accept it, we must accept short to medium term economic fuckitude in exchange for make benefit stop with the spending already. and for our freedoms.

maybe stop welfare for replacement americans too, that would make em reconsider coming here. Maybe end H1B1's too.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:54 PM (QxSug)

142 @AllenG,

I've actually wondered about that. Fannie Mae bought my mortgage (I am in no control over what happens to that beast after I got it.)
It's serviced by a local bank, but if the FM twins go bust with the government then what? (I imagine my mortgage, which has value) will be sold to some other group, but I've always wondered.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 03, 2012 03:55 PM (i177X)

143 Mine as well use the US dollar to keep it burning.



After, all, that is what the government does anyway, burn money with no benefits.


Actually, the govt burning money would actually help us. It would remove money from circulation, thus slightly increasing the value of the remaining currency still held.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:55 PM (GQ8sn)

144 BREAKING:

House Republicans have made a $2.2 trillion counter offer to the White House on the fiscal cliff negotiations that does not raise tax rates on upper income Americans but does include $800 billion in tax reform, $600 billion in health care cuts and $600 billion in other cuts in discretionary and mandatory spending.

Pretty good counteroffer, I'd say.

Posted by: rockmom at December 03, 2012 03:55 PM (aBlZ1)

145 The replublicans should let Obama have whatever tax increases he wants--more than he is currently asking for if that's what it takes, just cut a trillion per year from spending, and reform entitlements. No stimulus, no payroll tax deferment, not spending increases at all. Otherwise no debt limit increase, andshut down the government. That's how you let it burn.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at December 03, 2012 03:55 PM (VLifP)

146 Sweet fuck you retards leave a lot of comments, just left the puter for 25 minutes.
Mr. Moo Moo, Agreed.

Stirner, absofuckinglutely, pass simpson-bowles and tell the dems to fuck off on everything else if they won't play ball.

AtC:

Sigh, yes, sometimes you think it's that way for sure. We'll see if these fucksticks can get their shit together and figure it out. The internet is a powerful powerful tool. It's steered these idiots right before.

But we need to put our own fucking people in charge. I love Allen West and Trey Gowdy, but the latter will not work on a national ticket. I would have Allen West as Secretary of Defense!!

Posted by: Prescient11 at December 03, 2012 03:56 PM (tVTLU)

147 It's serviced by a local bank, but if the FM twins go bust with the government then what?

Yeah, that's the question, isn't it? My guess is that you're right- your loan would be sold to some private vendor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:56 PM (5DR1j)

148 LiB is vague enough to mean what you want it to mean.

---

Like Hope and Change.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 03, 2012 03:57 PM (Hx5uv)

149

*begins stuffing contraceptives under the mattress

Posted by: Sandra Fluker at December 03, 2012 03:57 PM (LpQbZ)

150 144 BREAKING:

House Republicans have made a $2.2 trillion counter offer to the White House on the fiscal cliff negotiations that does not raise tax rates on upper income Americans but does include $800 billion in tax reform, $600 billion in health care cuts and $600 billion in other cuts in discretionary and mandatory spending.

Pretty good counteroffer, I'd say.

---

It's a more reasonable counter-offer than what should have been given considering that Obama and Geithner showed their ass in their initial demands, what with asking for an unconstitutional change in powers for branches of government.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at December 03, 2012 03:57 PM (e0xKF)

151 I assume the LiB advocates mean Great Depression 3.0 combined with massive urban turmoil as the welfare gets cut off, leading to ... famine and death for many.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:58 PM (QxSug)

152

LiB is vague enough to mean what you want it to mean.

Kinda like I did not have sex with that woman.

Posted by: it's all a charade at December 03, 2012 03:58 PM (LpQbZ)

153 I'm reminded of the Resistance guy in Equilibrium talking to Christian Bale's character. I don't remember the quote, but it boiled down to, "Some of us have to sacrifice our humanity [in their case: emotion -ag] to protect the rest." The idea being that there have to be those willing to "stoop to their level" if the rest are going to avoid having to do that.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at December 03, 2012 03:50 PM (5DR1j)


---------------------------------------------


In other words, let the warriors clean up the mess that "civilized" people have made.

Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 03:58 PM (YRq5F)

154 @145, so you see the light now.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:58 PM (QxSug)

155 105 There are multiple flavors of LIB - some basically call for throwing gasoline and matches around to kick off a new revolution while others are essentially just standing aside and letting the Democrats dig their own hole.

I think this can be broken down as follows:

Let It Burn (LiB): Make the lefties fight for everything they want so that they own it when the shit hits the fan, which it will absolutely do. Then sit back and point at the Demonrats and say to the country, "You're the ones who voted for these guys! We tried to stop them, but you wouldn't listen."

Make It Burn (MiB): Sit back and do nothing. Vote present or vote in favor of the Demonrats' proposals. Bring about the end even faster. Then point at the Demonrats as the flames began to rise and say, "You voted for these guys! We're just giving you what you wanted."

Watch it Burn (WiB): The natural progression of the first two, wherein we do nothing to fix the ensuing crises until we're able to vote people into power who know how to kick ass and fix this country.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at December 03, 2012 03:58 PM (4df7R)

156 $800 billion in tax reform, $600 billion in health care cuts and $600
billion in other cuts in discretionary and mandatory spending.


Please say "obamaphones" is in there.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:58 PM (GQ8sn)

157 It's dead Jim.

Posted by: Infidel at December 03, 2012 03:59 PM (O/fK8)

158 **$800 billion in tax reform, $600 billion in health care cuts and $600 billion in other cuts in discretionary and mandatory spending.**

when? in 20 years? or combined over 100 years, weighted to the last 10 years of the 100 years?

or is that $2.2T in cuts today, this fiscal year?

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 03:59 PM (QxSug)

159 >> Okay, I'm (further) revealing my idiocy, but what's BadBlue?

atc, shame shame......I posted the Bad Blue linky near the top of Andy's thread about your rant. You were even featured in RED FONT for a while there.

Bad Blue is the creation of Doug Ross, aka DirectorBlue when he was posting at HA. He also has his own regular website.

Bad Blue is a news agglomerater.

Posted by: GnuBreed, 54 trees shy of a full load at December 03, 2012 03:59 PM (ccXZP)

160 @AllenG,

My loan is theoretically actually valuable. The market's still a little wonky where I live (thanks rental management companies!) But *crossing fingers* it seems likely we'll repay our loan. And even if we don't, it's unlikely the house will lose value below what we paid (if only because we've been making low cost improvements too it since we got it a bit over 4 months ago.)
It's amazing what a new landscaping wall, grass, window treatments, and some paint can do for a house in terms of curb appeal.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 03, 2012 03:59 PM (i177X)

161 Actually, the govt burning money would actually help us. It would remove money from circulation, thus slightly increasing the value of the remaining currency still held.
Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 03:55 PM (GQ8sn)]/i]


hehe

just remember, tho, it's a crime if WE do it!

Posted by: it's all a charade at December 03, 2012 04:00 PM (LpQbZ)

162
Simpson-Bowles is a suicide pact. For the Republicans. Despite the talk, the writing and the intent, it's a suicide pact It will be tax increases and then the Democrat weasels will not implement spending cuts. Because they want to be Santa Claus.

I watched C-SPAN this weekend, and there was a replay of a presser that Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson had with the "media" crapweaselsabout deficit reduction.
And predictably, Bowles and Simpson "criticized both sides" for not "compromising".

Then Alan Simpson illustrated his statesmanship history by talking about the times he "compromised" with the dreaded Teddy Kennedy, immigration being one of those incredible compromises. And then, it struck me that Simpson is a surrender doof from days of yore, that all his compromises were, once again, Democrats pissing on you and telling you it's raining. Everytime you compromise with these guys, they double cross you and laugh about it. It got GHWB defeated in 1992, because once again, his compromise with the Democrats on taxes and spending cuts "did not materialize", as there were no spending cuts.

Because all those clever compromises Simpson and the Republicans madein the past have lead to this day, when we have 1 trillion dollar deficits (annually) , and no room really to negotiate, because nothing can be cut. So yeah, big winners, right there.

Sequester, automatic cuts, tax increases. Let Obama own this, because that's what he wanted - sequester.

Boehner was on Fox on Sunday, and re-iterated at the end of the interview with the newsweasel Chris Wallace, that there would be no more kicking the can down the road, that there would be a solution to the budget impasse. Something would be done. Chris Wallace badgered him about it, and Boehner re-itereated that there would be no more kicking the can down the road.

Obama wants to fuck off and go to Hawaii on Dec 19th, so let him.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is not Santa Claus at December 03, 2012 04:01 PM (RFeQD)

163 Yea, Obama's opening position was basically "You give me everything I want and get nothing. But first you will blow me."

Our response should be to politely remind the country of a few facts and then act on them.

1. The House originates all taxing and spending. And to quote TFG, "We won."

2. If the problem is too much spending, and that is our opinion backed by public opinion, we have to spend less than we are spending now. Not increase by less, actually spend less. History tell us that every deal involving raising taxes with a promise of spending cuts has resulted in taxes going up and spending going up.

3. Any serious attempt to control our budget must begin with actually passing a budget instead of continuing the recent practice of endless continuing resolutions.

Therefore the House, having passed a Budget resolution for the current cycle shall stand in recess until such time as the Senate passes a resolution and we can begin the required reconciliation negotiations. Before adjourning we intend to pass the following emergency resolution which the Senate and President may pass and sign if they reach the new year without any progress:

All tax rates continue at current rates for ninety days. All spending will be authorized at levels which would result in a projected annualized budget deficit equal to the highest deficit of the Bush years plus 10%. The only exceptions will be Social Security shall be funded at 100%, defense at the reduced "Fiscal Cliff" rate and every other program reduced to fit the lowered budget.

In other words, a worst case scenario for the Dems that they could do zero about.

Posted by: John Morris at December 03, 2012 04:03 PM (sCRhB)

164 Bad Blue is a news agglomerater.
Posted by: GnuBreed, 54 trees shy of a full load at December 03, 2012 03:59 PM (ccXZP)



Ahhh, thank you! Can I use my transmogrifier on it?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 03, 2012 04:03 PM (VtjlW)

165
Well, my idea of 'Let it Burn' does not include raising the Debt Limit.

Seems like keeping the current limit on TFG's credit cards, would bring about 'the Burn' quicker.

Without the ability to borrow more...they would have to start cutting off the spending.

But if Barky decides to try to claim some new 'emergency power', and raise the Debt Limit all by himself...then the Credit Downgrades which will surely result from it, will be all his.

Posted by: wheatie at December 03, 2012 04:04 PM (CM59X)

166 Let It Burn (LiB): Make the lefties fight for everything they want so
that they own it when the shit hits the fan, which it will absolutely
do. Then sit back and point at the Demonrats and say to the country,
"You're the ones who voted for these guys! We tried to stop them, but
you wouldn't listen."



Make It Burn (MiB): Sit back and do nothing. Vote present or vote in
favor of the Demonrats' proposals. Bring about the end even faster.
Then point at the Demonrats as the flames began to rise and say, "You
voted for these guys! We're just giving you what you wanted."



Watch it Burn (WiB): The natural progression of the first two,
wherein we do nothing to fix the ensuing crises until we're able to vote
people into power who know how to kick ass and fix this country.




I think there's two slightly different, but similar philosophies working here.

Let It Burn: vote present on anything, letting the dems assume complete control of all legislation. This is in effect the equivalent of surrendering control over to them. It's as if it was back to one-party rule. The goal of LiB is to allow the culmination of liberal social engineering to overload and destroy the US govt in terms of financial obligations.

Burn It Down: this is the more 'proactive' version of the two, where we would actively take part in bringing about the overload. Go Galt, reduce tax liabilities to starve the govt, sign up for benefits even if you're not eligible (who checks anyways?), move your assets offshore away from IRS control, etc. The goal is to cause the end to progress faster than would be realized by simply waiting for the dems to do it themselves.

Posted by: EC at December 03, 2012 04:05 PM (GQ8sn)

167 136 >> Some of us have attempted to define what we mean by it. But I don't think there is any sort of unified version of it.

wheatie, I've been on that bandwagon for nearly a month now. I've rode that horse so much it's swaybacked by now.

My short version definition of LiB is -- TFG submits his fiscal plans and the GOP votes 'present'.

Posted by: GnuBreed, 54 trees shy of a full load at December 03, 2012 04:06 PM (ccXZP)

168 They won with broken bottles in back alleys. If we keep insisting on Marquis of Queensbury Rules, we will continue to be fucked.

Some of you are beginning to understand what this means.

It doesn't mean outreach, not by itself.

It contains some outreach. Especially directly from our candidates.

But it also means suppression. Turn the fire hoses of "democrats are racist". And "democrats hate people like you" on them like they have on us for years. Make their voters think twice about electing people based on tribalism.

And finally, it means manufacturing votes. Nobody will ever get serious about vote fraud until we're better at it than they are.

There, I said it. We need to start stealing elections. We need to steal them and steal them until we can steal them better than they can.

Only then will we be allowed to make elections fair again.

These things all need to get done: outreach, suppression, and fraud. Otherwise, we will never win again.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 04:07 PM (I2LwF)

169 how about we demand the senate to pass a budget. we need reconciliation.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 04:08 PM (QxSug)

170 While taxes for everyone else will still go up like they would in a "let it burn" or a "just walk away" stategy, the House GOP would be able to show that they don't want to stick it to the middle class, AND, most importantly, they wouldn't actually vote to raise taxes...They Dems will either have to accept or take the blame for higher taxes on the middle class...
Posted by: The Political Hat at December 03, 2012 03:42 PM (XvHmy)

Maybe it's just me, but I'm sick to death of this constant mention of the precious middle class. Seems to me using the class-war nomenclature of the Dems implicitly supports the validity of their neo-Marxist position, as if the United States is some kind of quasi-European industrial fiefdom existing in the latter part of the 19th Century. Personally, I don't care about the rich--let them be rich.By dint of hard work, good judgementand talent, pray God let me be rich, too.

To the point: if there are two parties in a given negotiation and one party is obviously, blatantly negotiating in bad faith, then it is incumbent upon the aggrieved party acting in good faith to break off negotiations and to refuse to participate any further. Hence, the Republicans should quit worrying about being blamed for whatever bad things happen as the result of the fiscal cliff. They're going to be blamed for the economic disaster coming our way no matter what they do, so they might as well go for that last great gesture of defiance. No abstentions, no cute behind-the-scenes maneuvering, no elaborate spin for the press, none of it. Tell the public exactly what's going on, explain the GOP position, and then proceed to fight these bastards on everything, everywhere, at every turn. If we go down, let's at least have the moral courage andself-respect to go down fighting.

Posted by: troyriser at December 03, 2012 04:08 PM (vtiE6)

171 Bad Blue is the creation of Doug Ross, aka DirectorBlue when he was posting at HA. He also has his own regular website.Bad Blue is a news agglomerater.
Posted by: GnuBreed, 54 trees shy of a full load at December 03, 2012 03:59 PM (ccXZP)


----------------------------------------------------


The rest of us thank you also for using an obscure, almost-unknown figure of speech.

Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 04:08 PM (YRq5F)

172 Pretty good statement here by McConnell in support of the House GOP offer:

“While the president hasn’t moved an inch away from his efforts to please his radical left-wing base, the Speaker has consistently shown a good-faith effort to find common ground and a realistic approach to solving the very real economic problems facing our country,” McConnell said. “If the president is serious about joining us in an effort to reduce the deficit and protect the economy, he’ll get off the campaign trail, drop the left-wing talking points, and instruct his staff to negotiate a solution in good faith based on actual written proposals. In short, he'll begin doing what leaders do: Lead.”

Boehner is saying this is a second-wave counteroffer, with the first GOP offer being the Paul Ryan budget that was already passed by the House but rejected by the Senate and Obama. That budget had no revenue increases and bigger cuts in Medicare and other programs.

According to The Hill, this offer is based on a plan suggested by Erskine Bowles in a hearing earlier this year - NOT the "Simpson-Bowles" plan, butan interim planthat Bowles himself would likely support.

Posted by: rockmom at December 03, 2012 04:08 PM (aBlZ1)

173 1. The House originates all taxing and spending.

What planet have you been on for the past 4 years? That notion is dead and buried. We're in a post-Constitutional era now.

Posted by: @PurpAv at December 03, 2012 04:09 PM (5hFv5)

174
The chaos that could actually ensue in the "Let it Burn" scenario is a two-edged sword.

Sure, we (well, you know, the "we conservatives") could be the ones to pick up the pieces and fix it.

Or, the Statist Left could be the ones to pick up the pieces and eliminate more liberties and lock us into a real tyrannical future.

I don't know if the consensus of "Let it Burn" will really work, because we are really rolling the dice and not expecting to crap out. But I surely understand the sentiment. Our country has been betrayed by a generation of politicians that don't give a shit about any of us, and just want to keep their phoney - baloney jobs.

They are, metaphorically speaking, cannibals. They expect us to serve ourselves up to be consumed. And that's about what half the country really wants.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is not Santa Claus at December 03, 2012 04:09 PM (RFeQD)

175 BTW, when I say I'm for letting it burn, I basically mean:



1. Let country collapse/default

2. Riots/Looting from those living on handouts

3. Red states secede after having enough of violence

4. Red states unite behind Texas, form new union

5. Red states invade blue states, burn Chicago and DC to ground

6. New United States emerge with a diminished population of clueless fucks who don't know math

7. PROFIT!



Any questions?



Want me to stay behind in Mass as a 5th columnist?

Posted by: fluffy at December 03, 2012 04:09 PM (z9HTb)

176 Start a whispering campaign that Harry Reid wants to pass a constitutional amendment that prevents Hispanic women from having more than one child, and INS will forcably abort any more.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 04:10 PM (I2LwF)

177 look at John Morris dropping some science on us. I like point 1.

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 04:10 PM (QxSug)

178 "This is what America voted for. I'm in a DIAF frame of mind."

I concur. Fuck everybody. This is what people wanted? Let 'em have it all at once. No more death by degrees. Bring on the apocalypse. We know which side has all the guns.

Posted by: dawnfire at December 03, 2012 04:11 PM (eEeH7)

179 tsrblke
Most likely it's already been sold to a fund of some sort. Fannie/Freddie only own about 1/10th of the mortgages they guarantee, most get packaged into securities that are nearly as important as Treasuries to the global investment markets (there are probably 5-6T of these securities).That's whyFannie and Freddie won't fail until the government does.

Posted by: bluto at December 03, 2012 04:11 PM (duHKQ)

180
167...My short version definition of LiB is -- TFG submits his fiscal plans and the GOP votes 'present'.

But GnuBreed, if Barky gets to keep borrowing money...then he can keep the good times rolling for the rest of his term.

Raising the Debt Limit would postpone 'the Burn' until much later.

Posted by: wheatie at December 03, 2012 04:12 PM (CM59X)

181 But it also means suppression. Turn the fire hoses of "democrats are racist". And "democrats hate people like you" on them like they have on us for years. Make their voters think twice about electing people based on tribalism.


Not to brag on myself, I mean more so than usual, but this is part of why I posted my open letter to those crapweasels. Okay, you want to ban guns? Here is what happens to me. Actual me, not some theoretical person, to me. This is the practical end result of what you are suggesting.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Also on Teams Daryl and Glenn. at December 03, 2012 04:12 PM (VtjlW)

182 Yes, please.
Because it would be nice to know what is meant by 'Let it Burn'.

Some of us have attempted to define what we mean by it.
But I don't think there is any sort of unified version of it.



I don't think it is possible to get a unified version, but it is a discussion worth having.


I'll even write it, if need be, but it would probably better to have someone less obtuse and less terse handle that.

Posted by: fluffy at December 03, 2012 04:13 PM (z9HTb)

183 This is the gutter we need to play in.

Posted by: Truman North at December 03, 2012 04:14 PM (I2LwF)

184
34 Insane times are a comin. We have no control, none.

58 So this administration will keep doubling down on stupid until the whole place blows up. Wonderful.

107 We're living in a lawless country now.

Feature, not bug
Feature, not bug

All this is deliberate

Cloward-Piven. Crash the system.

Go over the fiscal cliff on purpose. Blame the Republicans.

Economic crisis ensues. Depression 2.0, hyperinflation, whatever. Doesn't matter what the crisis looks like.

Use the engineered crisis to claim 'emergency' powers. Bypass Congress, courts, and constitution with the stroke of a pen. Punish your enemies as a bonus.

Fundamental transformation.

Coming soon to a Republic near you.


* * *

I wish I could interpret the actions and beliefs of this administration differently, but I can't. Start out believing that the intent all alonghas been to make America into a post-constitutional country and what's been happening makes much more sense. I wish I could come to a different conclusion, but I haven't been able to.
Insane times, indeed.

Posted by: crisis du jour at December 03, 2012 04:14 PM (J1eJz)

185 What we really need to do is convince the dems that we want the mother of all knife fights.

And then bring our guns.

Posted by: Soona at December 03, 2012 04:17 PM (YRq5F)

186 @184. no. dear leader has our best interests at heart. It's just the kulaks and hoarders sabotaging most great benefit recovery

Posted by: so joeindc44 is full of all sorts of hindsight now, like JFK? at December 03, 2012 04:17 PM (QxSug)

187
Alex the Chick,
That is, of course, the fundamental focus of the matter.

These things will have a direct, tangible impact on all of us. And soon.

I started to get into an argument with one of my co-workers today (who voted for Obama) about the tax on Healthcare premium plans above $12K (family plans), which is why our health insurance carrier is pushing us towards HSA accounts (because the premiums are lower).
My family healthcare plan will be about $15K this year, with the company picking up 80% of the premium. Next year (2014) will be the first year that "premium" plans will be taxed.

Of course, he refused to believe this, because he had read part of the ACA plan. Sure.

No matter what, we all get screwed. Bringing it on faster will just bring a solution faster. But we are stuck with Obama/Biden until 2016. There is no getting around that. And his solution is class , race and gender warfare.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch is not Santa Claus at December 03, 2012 04:20 PM (RFeQD)

188 180 >> But GnuBreed, if Barky gets to keep borrowing money...then he can keep the good times rolling for the rest of his term.
Raising the Debt Limit would postpone 'the Burn' until much later.


Yes, LIB is different than Shut it Down, which is defined as no increase in debt limit. They are two different strategies. SID is much more severe, and will likely provoke a Constitutional crisis when TFG decides he can ignore the debt ceiling.

Right now, I'm for either one.

Posted by: GnuBreed, 54 trees on the wall at December 03, 2012 04:21 PM (ccXZP)

189 PurpAV@173 wrote: "What planet have you been on for the past 4 years? That notion is dead and buried. We're in a post-Constitutional era now."

No, it is only dead when WE accept that it is dead. What I'm proposing is to push em to the wall. They either have to produce a Budget in the Senate (which would be utter suicide, once Harry realizes we are serious he will give us pretty much anything in exchange for a CR) or sweep away the last vestiges of the Old Republic in a very public and obvious way. If that doesn't produce a backlash then it truly is game over and America deserves everything that happens after that.

Posted by: John Morris at December 03, 2012 04:29 PM (sCRhB)

190 I wish I could interpret the actions and beliefs of this administration differently, but I can't. Start out believing that the intent all alonghas been to make America into a post-constitutional country and what's been happening makes much more sense. I wish I could come to a different conclusion, but I haven't been able to. Insane times, indeed.
Posted by: crisis du jour at December 03, 2012 04:14 PM (J1eJz)

No other way to interpret events. There was a minor union official, Stephen Lerner of the SEIU, who wasforced to quit a few years ago when he spoke about this publicly. His big idea was to wreck the banks by excacerbating the student loan and homeforeclosure crises, so his recommendations differ from a recession/depression/hyperinflation forced by a dive over the fiscal cliff, but the idea is the same: deliberately trigger an economic catastrophe, with blame for all of that suffering falling on free market capitalism and the GOP.

Keep in mind we're not talking aboutsome shadowy, mysterious cabal. We're talking about the President, the Vice President, the President's Cabinet, the Senate Majority Leader, and the House Minority Leader, as well as nearly all of the major news and cultural organs comprising the American mainstream media. Combined, they're the most powerful forces in the political life of the country, so they'll probably pull it off.

Posted by: troyriser at December 03, 2012 04:39 PM (vtiE6)

191 #189 What if taxpayers revolted, as much as we can given the withholding system? If Harry Reid and Barack Obama won't produce a budget for the United States, what obligation do we have as taxpayers to givethem anything? I would argue for mass resistance as of January 1, increase your withholding allowances to the max and refuse to pay a dime on April 15- at least, everyone should file extensions. Anyone who files quarterly should refuse to file at all. That gives Obama and Reid until August to come up with an actual budget. Then, and only then, should any of us pay any federal taxes.

Or, let's all open checking accounts with $5, then write our April 15 checks on them, so they all bounce. Maybe that would get their attention in Washington.

We do have leverage as the people paying for all this shit. Let's just stop paying for it!

Posted by: rockmom at December 03, 2012 04:40 PM (aBlZ1)

192 In a crisis scenario, the most ruthless and organized party will take over. Ruthless and organized: Does that describe the Marxist Left or the Conservative Right?

So there is no way that "we" will be picking up the pieces. #184 has it right.

Posted by: Agnes Day at December 03, 2012 11:39 PM (D1eJg)

Posted by: Seipherd at December 04, 2012 01:42 AM (BoLlc)

194 If the GOP agree to be the Dem's bitch, why should anyone expect the Dem's to do anything in return?

Posted by: Seipherd at December 04, 2012 01:45 AM (BoLlc)

195 Fascinating. Vote republican or we will kill suicidebomb the US economy is sure going to be a winner.

Posted by: Fnord at December 04, 2012 12:52 PM (hoJnS)






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