Top Headline Comments 11-30-12

Happy Friday.

The Obama Administration's opening salvo in the fiscal cliff negotiations was so unserious that Sen. McConnell actually laughed at Sec. Geithner when he presented it. McConnell later expanded on just why the proposal -- which included millions in tax hikes and millions in more stimulus spending (yes, more stimulus spending), but no actual spending cuts -- was so unacceptable:

Are the entitlement-eligibility changes his price for any deal? “There’s a nexus,” he says, “between my willingness to raise revenue and their willingness to make serious entitlement-eligibility reforms.” Does he worry that Republicans will be attacked for refusing to raise taxes on the rich without entitlement cuts? “They’ve talked about our reluctance to raise taxes on high-income people incessantly for a generation.”

Exactly. Making decisions based on whether the GOP is going to get blamed or not is stupid. Of course Democrats are going to blame the GOP no matter what happens and of course the lemmings in the media will do the same no matter what happens. Folks proposing that the GOP simply allow the Democrats to do whatever they want are kidding themselves if they think that GOP cooperation will not be viewed as GOP consent to Democratic failures.

That's a consequence of being in power. It would be another story if, as in 2009, the Democrats controlled the House as well as the Senate. But they do not. The GOP is sharing power; they will therefore share the blame.

More from McConnell:

The main point is that he wants to lock in entitlement changes right away. He wants to “do something other than set up some process where we promise to do something later and it doesn’t happen.” He worries setting up another commission to debate entitlements will give the “AARP and the unions a whole year to beat everybody up so we don’t ever get an outcome.” He emphasizes, “We ought to do it now, right now.”

This should sound familiar. It's the same thing Ace and Drew have been saying forever (well, at least until their more recent decisions to let the Democrats do what they want). The GOP can't just secure a promise from Obama to do something later in exchange for his tax hikes now. The two are linked and must remain linked. Any revenue deal must include spending cuts and a huge chunk of our spending problem is entitlements. But, as McConnell says, kicking the can down the road just gives Democrats more time to find ways to avoid serious cuts.

McConnell had more to say on Hewitt:

HH: Did [Geithner] outline what other taxes [Obama] wants to raise?

MM: Yeah, you know, it’s all on the usual poll-tested, oil and gas, raise the estate tax, there’s hardly anything they missed. It is a massive, whopping punch right in the nose to the American economy. I can’t imagine the Democrats would support it. I mean, Max Baucus, the chairman of the Finance Committee, is certainly not going to support the estate tax proposal, Mary Landrieu, the Democrats from Louisiana, is not going to support the gas tax. Neither is Mark Begich of Alaska, completely unserious, and here we are witnessing the President running around the country thinking the campaign is not over yet. And they’re presenting laughable suggestions from the Secretary of the Treasury. He ought to be embarrassed to be asked to go up here and do something like that. It’s a serious blow to his credibility.

There's some other juicy stuff at the link.

The bottom line, of course, is that we're in a complete reversal of our usual roles right now. McConnell and other leaders in D.C. are trying to put the brakes on economy-killing "progressive" ideas . . . while conservative commentators are ready to give in and give socialism a try.

I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 06:54 AM



Comments

1 Good Morning Morons. Today is Friday, November 30, 2012. On this day in 1804 Supreme Court justice Samuel Chase was impeached for “political bias” that effected his court decisions. He was part of the war between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. John Adams had tried to give the Federalists control after they had been ousted in the election of 1800 through various judicial acts just before leaving office. The impeachment of Chase was part of Jefferson’s efforts to remove Federalist Judges from office and reign in the court following their grab for power in Marbury v Madison. The impeachment failed because the Senate acquitted him. Too bad, because it would have set a needed precedent.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:58 AM (YdQQY)

2 Well it is starting now. We all saw it coming with Obama’s illegal granting of work permits to illegals. Now they are suing AZ because AZ still refuses to give them driver’s licenses. I’m sure they will be honest and not go judge shopping. <snarc>

http://is.gd/UdSq5F

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:58 AM (YdQQY)

3 Senate approves measure to block Feinstein’s attempts to move GITMO terrorists to the US. If I am not mistaken we already have a law on the books for that. Oshitforbrains is already threatening veto.

http://is.gd/fNO9mI

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:58 AM (YdQQY)

4 Republican and Democrats are battling in the lame duck congress to see which one can screw us the hardest in the amnesty war.

http://is.gd/Yw64oR

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:58 AM (YdQQY)

5 Fast Food workers in NYC walk off the job demanding $15/hour. Claim they can not live off of current salary in NYC. I am sure that is true. But nobody anywhere in the country can “live” off of a fast food worker salary. Those jobs are meant to go to teens who are living at home.

http://is.gd/V7lo8A

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:59 AM (YdQQY)

6 Sessions calls Tiny Tim and Ocrapsweasel liars (or words to that effect) over their non-plans for the budget.

http://is.gd/j3z8Eq

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:59 AM (YdQQY)

7 More advocates of LIB crop up over the “fiscal cliff”.

http://is.gd/Tl4Rd1

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:59 AM (YdQQY)

8 Washington Press defends Oturdsnoot’s ridiculous offer yesterday. That offer bordered on insanity but the ball sucking press could not but help defending him.

http://is.gd/eApzj0

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:00 AM (YdQQY)

9 Fox wins lawsuit over AIG bailout docs from “most transparent adm ever”.

http://is.gd/oATZBe

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:00 AM (YdQQY)

10 Domino’s says it will have to post 34 Million signs in stores to comply with new Obama regulations. Add up all the pizza makers and you can see where this is ridiculous. What will happen here is you will have to pay through the nose for a pizza or they will simply put up 4 or 5 varieties of pizza and that is all you will be able to order. All for something nobody gives a shit about.

http://is.gd/zcY8sU

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:00 AM (YdQQY)

11 You all know that I am no fan of “studies”. They always come up with something obvious, look at something useless, or what is most common, they are geared to get the result that the writers were looking for. IOW it is just ax grind. Well here we have an example of the obvious; CA is the worst governed State in the Union.

http://is.gd/3nOtzi

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:00 AM (YdQQY)

12 After nationalizing the Student Loan industry liberals in congress now want a $1T bailout for students who cannot pay. They obviously think money grows on trees. Everyone knows it grows on Tiny Tim’s printing presses.

http://is.gd/VG6fO9

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:01 AM (YdQQY)

13 Conservatives going after Preibus? Sorry guys, he is the wrong target.

http://is.gd/WHrjTR

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:01 AM (YdQQY)

14

Why so many words to write Top Headline Comments?

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:01 AM (LhO8w)

15 Kindle Daily Deal:

Talking with My Mouth Full

Gail Simmons took an unusual and inspiring path to become a food writer and professional eater. From her youth in a culinary-savvy household to serving as a judge on television's Top Chef, this satisfying read chronicles the creation of a career that didn't exist when Simmons began pursuing her passions.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:01 AM (YdQQY)

16 First, other than Vic? That's gotta count for something....

Posted by: OCD con at November 30, 2012 07:01 AM (K7W+A)

17 That’s it for today. What I find remarkable and disheartening is that after a week of hype from the press over the impending cliff of doom I have yet to see one article, or hear one mention on TV news, of the fact that we did not get here via taxes. These massive deficits came about because Obama and the Dems jacked up spending by massive amounts and have maintained it. We have started the conversation with taxes and the press has willingly gone along with that. They truly are the enemy.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:02 AM (YdQQY)

18 Well, so much for that...

Posted by: OCD con at November 30, 2012 07:02 AM (K7W+A)

19

Samuel Chase?

I thought his name was Salmon?

Or Pickerel?

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:03 AM (LhO8w)

20

Herring P. Chase


P is for Pike

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:04 AM (LhO8w)

21 while conservative commentators are ready to give in and give socialism a try.


I do not buy that. Some want to LIB and some like me want to shut it down. I don't think any real conservatives want to give more "socialism" a try.


Note that we are already a fully socialist country. Obama wants to take us into full communism.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:05 AM (YdQQY)

22 The Burninator, rise of the taxes.

Posted by: VW Zao at November 30, 2012 07:05 AM (vWZa0)

23

He had a sister named Tuna, Tuna Chase.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:05 AM (LhO8w)

24 Good morning rons, Kabuki theater, all of it. TFG wants sequestration amd taxes to go up on everybody.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:09 AM (3Y7RV)

25 So, willl we get Obama strutting across the world stage for the next 50 years like Clinton?

What a couple of bullshit artist clowns

Posted by: billypaintbrush at November 30, 2012 07:09 AM (qhyJx)

26 Not sure Gabe understands what Let It Burn really means.

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 07:10 AM (doBIb)

27 So, willl we get Obama strutting across the world stage for the next 50 years like Clinton?

What a couple of bullshit artist clowns

Posted by: billypaintbrush at November 30, 2012 07:09 AM (qhyJx)

I was thinking Carter without the work ethic.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:10 AM (3Y7RV)

28 Note also that the Republican call for a cut in "entitlements" is not only bad politics, it is premature and not needed for the current mess.


As I said earlier, we got here because Obama jacked up spending to $4T/year with a $1.1T deficit. We didn't get here because of SS and medicare and we didn't get here because of taxes. The FIRST thing that needs to be done is restore the budget to pre-Obama levels.


Following that we can look at some of the more long term actions. For now ZERO taxes should be on the table.


Congressional response to the Dems and Obama should be eat shit and die, we will shut it down.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:11 AM (YdQQY)

29 Gabe, I'm interested in what your suggested strategy is then. If not LIB, then what? Shut it down (ie no debt ceiling hike)? Kick the can? Strongly worded letter? Over the cliff?

The Dems don't seem to be willing to compromise very much, nor do any entitlement reform. And all they have to do is NOTHING and the cliff happens.


Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 07:11 AM (ccXZP)

30 Are we willing to get up and walk away from the table and let the Budget Control Act kick in?

If we're not ... if our position is that there must be some negotiated deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff" then we've already lost.

My version of "let it burn" just says that you let BCA kick in and then come back in 2013 with a clean sheet of paper to propose tax cuts, entitlement reform, etc. from the House. This isn't exactly giving socialism a whirl.

Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 07:12 AM (OZPoa)

31

Talk radio stinks in the early AM. My local conservative talker, Jeff Kuhner, is a ranter who talks out of his ass.

So I'm left with Bill Bennett's show or sports talk radio where I can listen to dumb shits talking about dumb shit.

I dont care about the coach of the Spurs resting his starters against the Heat. But these fools can dissesct this "event" for two hours as if it meant something in life.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:12 AM (LhO8w)

32 That a lot of Republicans are at the same place as Dems in the early 2000s shouldn't surprise anyone.

The problem is, the Dems were very good at allowing Bush to have his war, and then quickly swiveling to being supreme critics of that war and everything Bush did to prosecute it.

I don't, and I don't suppose anyone else is as confident of the Rs being able to pull off that kind of POLITICAL move, nevermind the question of whether they should.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2012 07:12 AM (BeSEI)

33 21
while conservative commentators are ready to give in and give socialism a try.

I
do not buy that. Some want to LIB and some like me want to shut it
down. I don't think any real conservatives want to give more "socialism"
a try.


Vic, it WILL shut down. Then it will burn.
What can't go on forever, (FSA), won't.
Math is hard. Math is finite. You can funge a lot of crap.
But at the end of the day, 2 + 2 still = 4.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 30, 2012 07:14 AM (d0Dmj)

34 Most of all the Republicans need to quit modifying their actions and strategy to try to satisfy the MFM. We will never satisfy that load of assclowns.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:14 AM (YdQQY)

35 Very cogent main blog post.

The key point, and most of the chattering classes will miss it, is that Team Obama really still is in 24/7 campaign mode. This "proposal" from them is a giant dog & pony show. It's entirely a puppet show for their useful idiot base.

Farm state Democrats won't support a hike to the estate tax. Oil state Democrats won't support additional taxes on oil. There's no chance in hell of this passing the Senate much less the House. And Team Obama actually does know that.

What they're doing is ginning up campaign donations from loopy, wealthy liberals in the likes of Pacific Heights, Malibu, the Hamptons, New Caanan and SoHo and from young imbeciles still in school. Simultaneously they're ginning up the dependency classes in the urban Democrat slums. They're already campaigning for the '14 mid-term cycle. They're already setting the class warfare machine in motion for '16. That's what's actually going on here.

As far as the "conservative commentator" miasma goes, well, that's largely a function of demographics. We're not talking about the sharpest tools in the shed. How many of these "conservative commentators" in the "let it burn" camp are licensed and experienced professionals? Um, zero. Or virtually zero. It's nearly entirely a collection of arrested development drones with limited educations, limited experience and way too much time on their hands. And it's not surprising they've shown their true colors. There are a lot of poseurs in media-Internet circles.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at November 30, 2012 07:15 AM (r2PLg)

36 Good morning vic. The rams I'll be working on are from BWR's but they load from the bottom. The westing hoouse reactors load from the top.

Yes, they are still considered hot because of their proximity to the pressure vessel. It's gonna be weird because you actually wear scrubs to do machine maintenance.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:15 AM (3Y7RV)

37 Good morning, horde.


I seem to have caught a bit of whatever various M and Ms and suffering from; I was up all night hacking and now my throat feels like Satan slipped me a jalapeno and gasoline smoothie. So I apologize for the brevity of today’s story:


As you all know, Rock Hudson died of AIDS in 1985. By that time, of course, few people were surprised at the knowledge that the rugged star of Magnificent Obsession “putted from the rough,” as my old grandpa used to say. But of course, in the golden days of Hollywood, part of a movie journalist’s job was to keep a star’s less-than-wholesome enthusiasms off the record.


It so happened that Hudson found himself in Dallas in 1962 to promote his new movie, Spider Road and agreed to take some questions from the local press during a lunchtime appearance. In the middle of the Q-and-A, a young reporter who wasn’t part of the Dallas-Fort Worth movie beat raised her hand.


“Mr. Hudson,”, she said, “I’ve got a very personal question for you. I hope it’s not too embarrassing and you may not want to answer it.” There was a strained silence and the movie reporters lowered their heads to stare into their salads. “I’ve heard this rumored for years,” the woman went on, “but there’s no way to know for sure unless I ask you.”


Hudson squared his jaw. “Go ahead.” Everyone in the room took a deep breath as the woman asked her question:


“Is it true that your teeth are capped?”


Hope you all have a wonderful weekend. See you on Monday.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 07:15 AM (zF6Iw)

38 After nationalizing the Student Loan industry liberals in congress now want a $1T bailout for students who cannot pay.

Obviously, before the election, a widespread whispering campaign was begun to spread the word about this proposal. Just look at how the 18 to 30 year old demographic voted. Free stuff forever, just vote for Obama.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 30, 2012 07:16 AM (feFL6)

39 I want the fuckers that voted for this asshole to suffer...is that so wrong?

Posted by: Mr pink at November 30, 2012 07:16 AM (eqyeV)

40 This "proposal" from them is a giant dog pony show.


A dog and pony show at least has logic. Obama's proposal was a sick and useless joke.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:16 AM (YdQQY)

41 >> Talk radio stinks in the early AM. My local conservative talker, Jeff Kuhner, is a ranter who talks out of his ass.

It would be awesome to have Jeff Katz back. And, yeah, Kuhner is an idiot.

Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 07:16 AM (OZPoa)

42 39
I want the fuckers that voted for this asshole to suffer...is that so wrong?


Not at all. Unfortunately, we are ALL going to suffer.

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 30, 2012 07:17 AM (d0Dmj)

43 It is going to burn. Nothing we can do to stop it.


Vote present.


Make the Dems own it.


Let it burn. Now.

Posted by: butch at November 30, 2012 07:18 AM (nK2Sx)

44 I dont care about the coach of the Spurs resting his starters against the Heat. But these fools can dissesct this "event" for two hours as if it meant something in life.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:12 AM (LhO8w)

I got a puss RINO LOCAL GUY, Hucksterby and Jerry rivers.. I feel yout listening pain.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:18 AM (3Y7RV)

45 So, willl we get Obama strutting across the world stage for the next 50 years like Clinton? What a couple of bullshit artist clowns Posted by: billypaintbrush at November 30, 2012 07:09 AM (qhyJx)

I was thinking Carter without the work ethic.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:10 AM (3Y7RV)


Nope. Think J. Wellington Wimpy without the work ethic.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 07:18 AM (zF6Iw)

46 Yes, they are still considered hot because of their proximity to the pressure vessel.


They are likely neutron activated because of that proximity, therefore they will be hot, not to mention likely contaminated on the surface.


You understand the difference between activated metal and contamination right?

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:18 AM (YdQQY)

47

I liked Jeff Katz too. He was a great interviewer.

Todd Feinburg was good when he was alone.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (LhO8w)

48 You understand the difference between activated metal and contamination right?
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:18 AM (YdQQY)


I have a week of school at the site starting monday. I'm sure they are going to teach me.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (3Y7RV)

49 Did somebody breakeded the HQ?

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (d0Dmj)

50 Present!

Posted by: Iamahaiangttiam at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (nw0Vt)

51 I am sick and fucking tired of these mealy mouthed GOP frontmen

This is all you have to do to hammer this shit home:

This is fucking 2013's budget expenditures: $3.803 Trillion
This is fucking 2013's projected revenues : $2.902 Trillion
This is fucking 2013's projected deficit : $900 Billion


The Presidents "offer" would raise, best case scenario, $75 Billion.


So we take $900 - $75 = $825

So we would have a budget shortfall of $825 Billion after the President gets his pound of flesh.

And this is before he piles on new debt.


The President is a SCOAMF

The GOP is a useless pile of junk

The American people are stupid, lazy fuck heads.


LIB

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (RrD4h)

52 Talk radio stinks in the early AM. My local conservative talker, Jeff Kuhner, is a ranter who talks out of his ass.

You on the North Shore, too, soothsayer? Yeah, WRKO is determined to drive the station into the ground. Kuhner's a braying idiot. BTW, Todd Feinberg and (I think) Michelle McPhee are now doing separate overnight shifts at WBZ after Dan Rea's show. I think they finally got rid of The Steve Lavellie Broadcast.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 07:21 AM (zF6Iw)

53

yeah slightly north of Boston...in Everett


McPhee still fills in for Howie on Fridays.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:23 AM (LhO8w)

54 I have a week of school at the site starting monday. I'm sure they are going to teach me.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (3Y7RV)

Yes, you will get the minimum gov mandated GET. As for the metal look at it this way. You can remove contamination by wiping the surface of the metal down just like cleaning a dirty part. The metal itself though is still activated and will give off radiation. If you start grinding or any other action that removes metal flakes you will produce more contamination that becomes airborne and lose.
They will probably make you wear a respirator while working on those things if it has any of those things I was talking about. Being in a respirator for more than 10 or 15 minutes is torture.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:24 AM (YdQQY)

55 Geithner's credibility? Come on.

Posted by: Joewm315 at November 30, 2012 07:24 AM (oGSBO)

56 Being in a respirator for more than 10 or 15 minutes is torture.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:24 AM (YdQQY)

I know that. Another thing is the rad limit. The Feds have 5 rads in a period of time to burnout. GE's limit is one.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:25 AM (3Y7RV)

57


DAY 24

1,436 to go

Mayans, Muzzies, Marxists, Maoists, Moochelle, McCains, miscreants, malcontents and miscellaneous meshugas notwithstanding.


Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:26 AM (XkWWK)

58 Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 07:20 AM (RrD4h)


Remember this also, regardless of what the actual "budget" is. The deficits have run right at $1.1T every year since he took office. 2013 will not be any different.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:26 AM (YdQQY)

59 Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:24 AM (YdQQY)

That's good info vic, I'll watch for those things.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:26 AM (3Y7RV)

60 Hey look it's Gabe saying "don't give up the ship!"

Must be a day ending in "Y" after the election.

Gabe why are you insisting that the GOP save the Republic (bwahahaha as if this piece of shit national electorate is worthy of that appellate for what they enabled)from having Bronco Bammy blow its brains out for no thanks and no power?

King Putt literally asked for the total usurped power of a tyrant yesterday.

Heks wanting to go full African Debased Currency as we warned, the newsies ignored Conservative concernson the fucker time for the GOP to let the sequester happen and all rates to go up.

My 30g bonus came due and I am literal in praising the finance Gods it didn't linger past the 1st of Jan.

Elections have consequences and so does a biased press.

Fuck it let it burn.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 07:28 AM (lbNG/)

61 I know that. Another thing is the rad limit. The Feds have 5 rads in a period of time to burnout. GE's limit is one.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:25 AM (3Y7RV)


The 10CFR20 Limit is 3 Rem/qtr and 5 Rem/year however they have something called ALARA, meaning as low as reasonable possible. (for people greater than 1

Most utilities limit people to 1 Rem/Qtr during outage work and much less than that during non-outages.

What is funny is that back in the early days I have picked up > 1 Rem in one containment entry in a few minutes.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:29 AM (YdQQY)

62
They proposed stimulus spending because Obama has a lot of donors to "thank".

Posted by: Marmo at November 30, 2012 07:30 AM (pcgW1)

63 I think my objection to the whole LIB thing is that we will have elections again, in 2014, and 2016. And who will be the Pure Conservatives and who will be the RINO sons-of-bitches? Those who vote "Yes" to every Democrat proposal, which seems to be the most proactive way to let it burn; those who vote "Present," which is mere acquiescence but not active participation; or those who vote "No," which is an active opposition to Let It Burn? Who will we be vilifying and who will we be holding up as conservative heroes?

Posted by: MikeinAmman at November 30, 2012 07:32 AM (ENczV)

64 Anyone who votes to agree with the Democrats, regardless of reason, I will call a RINO. This give them everything they want is pure bullshit.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:33 AM (YdQQY)

65 Lest we forget that the UN, aside from renovating the ovens for the Jews, is in talks to seize the internet, seize our oceans, seize tax authority over us and seize our firearms.

And with Tovarich TFG and his minions in charge, they will hand us over on a silver platter.


Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:33 AM (XkWWK)

66 I have a new favorite site to check every few days:

http://gunssavelives.net/

They are aggregating news reports of guns used in self defense. (h/t Instapundit for linking them). One of the fun things to do is go from there to their links, then read the comments at the original sources.

Warms the heart, it does.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 07:34 AM (ccXZP)

67 #31 Maybe we should make Congress wear jerseys.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 30, 2012 07:34 AM (GoIUi)

68 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:33 AM (XkWWK)


Don't forget the link I posted that Harry Pederast is a bringing a treaty to the floor that Oshit signed to give the UN control of how we treat disabled in this country.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:34 AM (YdQQY)

69 And with Tovarich TFG and his minions in charge, they will hand us over on a silver platter.


Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:33 AM (XkWWK)
----------------------------------------------------------
Tovarich is the leader of the current Ineptocracy no?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 30, 2012 07:35 AM (jucos)

70 Vic, I read very often that you are from South Carolina. Where? I grew up in Moncks Corner, and still have a house in Lexington, which I rent out while I'm in the Middle East.

Posted by: MikeinAmman at November 30, 2012 07:35 AM (ENczV)

71 the problem Gabe, is that you see this as just another election loss. I suspect that older or more conservative people see this as more of the last line in the sand. And we crossed it.
Everything changed. Look at it like a political 9-11

Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 30, 2012 07:36 AM (+VMZ0)

72 North Central in the weeds. I am far from Moncks Corner.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:36 AM (YdQQY)

73 It would be another story if, as in 2009, the Democrats controlled the House as well as the Senate.


You want to know why the Let It Burn camp exists? Because in 2009, the Democrats controlled the House and the Senate and Republicans were still blamed for Every. Fucking. Thing. C'mon, Gabe, you know this. You damn well know that the MFM and the Democrats blamed Republicans for every single problem when there was not a damn thing the Republicans could do to stop it. You are acting as if the Republicans are dealing with rational actors who are not lying psychopaths. That is not the case.


Also, where the hell are you getting this idea that the Republicans have any power? Yes, the Republicans control the House. Yes, if the Constitution were being followed that means the Republicans have the power of the purse. When, precisely, was the last time a budget was passed? 1,100 days ago? 1,200? How many spending proposals have been sent to the Senate by the House? How many have ever seen the light of day on the Senate floor? The actual reality of power as is currently being exercised in DC is that the Republicans have none. Republicans do not have any power to stop what the Dems want to do. Obama and Reid will simple ram through Executive Orders and Reid will shove through continuing resolutions. There's nothing that can be done to stop that.


You know who has all the power? Math. And Math's a stone cold bitch who is going to burn it all to the ground no matter what. The roof is on fire. Let the motherfucker burn.

Posted by: alexthechick at November 30, 2012 07:36 AM (Gk3SS)

74 "I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it. "

"How many of these "conservative commentators" in the "let it burn" camp are licensed and experienced professionals? Um, zero. Or virtually zero. It's nearly entirely a collection of arrested development drones with limited educations, limited experience and way too much time on their hands. "

Because obviously Gabe and Tsar Nicholas are both WAAYYY smarter than that old loser with spectacles from Philly who said "Experience keeps a dear school, but Fools will learn at no other."

Listen up, Fools: we have just seen that between the media and the Ruling Party the typical American Fool is in a bubble that mere mortals can't break through. OK, then, let's call upon the Gods of the Copybook Headings who will always have a large enough cluebat in stock.....

Posted by: SDN at November 30, 2012 07:37 AM (YTfNk)

75 the problem Gabe, is that you see this as just another election loss. I suspect that older or more conservative people see this as more of the last line in the sand. And we crossed it.
Everything changed. Look at it like a political 9-11
Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 30, 2012 07:36 AM (+VMZ0)


Yeah, I agree.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:37 AM (3Y7RV)

76 @58

Understood, but I guess my point is that it's ridiculously simple to puncture this bullshit and you have mealy mouthed clowns like McConnel offering weak tea.

SOMEONE ON OUR SIDE HAS GOT TO START KICKING OVER CHAIRS RIGHT ABOUT NOW!

But we get weak shit from our side.

That is weak shit from McConnell, so what he laughed Malor, he should have said loudly that Geitner is a tax-cheating clown, the President is a lazy useless piece of shit and we are not raising taxes, tax rates, fees, etc on jack squat- period.

We want an offer sheet that is entitlement and spending reductions ONLY!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 07:37 AM (RrD4h)

77 I just wrote to my outgoing, not John fucking McCain Senator,

I fucking *insist* that ALL of the "Bush Tax Cuts" be repealed.

It would put me on the tax-rolls for the 1st time in almost a decade and I don't even have a bastard!

Also, let's not do the Doc Fix, or adjust the AMT!

Grover Norquist is wrong!

You can *never* starve the beast & then win policy.

Leviathan will always grow.

Tax them until it hurts.

Tax them and tax them and tax them again until they fucking learn!

Tax EVERYBODY!

Dems are all in on fucking up the world economy.

No way we can head this off.

We tried...

They have all the levers of power and influence, apparently...

Give them what they say they want!

Posted by: Deety loves SMOD at November 30, 2012 07:37 AM (QG3g9)

78
Math is overrated.

Ask the Greeks.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 30, 2012 07:38 AM (LhO8w)

79 68 Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:34 AM (YdQQY)


Sorry Vic. You've got so much posted it's like the Vic of Spades HQ. But yes, this is probably the mildest one of all, just to test the reaction.

Once these treaties are signed into law, they supersede the Constitution.

At that point, there will be (or should be) open rebellion in this country, or what's left of it.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:38 AM (XkWWK)

80 The actual reality of power as is currently being exercised in DC is
that the Republicans have none. Republicans do not have any power to
stop what the Dems want to do.



Have to disagree AtC. While true Harry is not bringing a budget to the floor, but the House is letting him get away with it by passing CRs so that the old Obama budget remains in place.


All the House needs to do is refuse to pass the CR and tell them to shut it down. But they piss in their pants every time the MFM looks at them cross-eyed. Which means the Republican side of the House is always covered in piss.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:39 AM (YdQQY)

81 I should point out the great big wet sloppy kiss the GOP gave the Dems on the last debt ceiling negotiation -- a bump of $2.4 trillion in two tranches, of which there was no downside to the second tranche when TFG 'used' it, that together were carefully calculated by the Dems to get past the 2012 election.

That was so stupid the rocks in my yard cried out 'those idiots!'

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 07:40 AM (ccXZP)

82 The Republicans in the House should generate a 2-3,000 page bill and present it to the Senate on December 30 and tell them they will 'have to pass it to find out what's in it'...

Posted by: dtih at November 30, 2012 07:40 AM (TpYxM)

83
All the House needs to do is refuse to pass the CR and tell them to shut it down.


Yes. Which is part of Let It Burn. Which I have just been told means I'm a socialist. Yeah. No.

Posted by: alexthechick at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (Gk3SS)

84 New laptop, Windows 8. I'm so confused.

Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (pEOD8)

85 Once these treaties are signed into law, they supersede the Constitution.


No they do not. That is a myth the Dems like to push.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:42 AM (YdQQY)

86 @80


Exactly right.

The GOP is going to get the blame no matter what.

No more continuing resolutions!

SHUT IT DOWN!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 07:43 AM (RrD4h)

87 Yes. Which is part of Let It Burn. Which I have just been told means I'm a socialist. Yeah. No.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (Gk3SS)

I like your line of let it burn. Shut it down. It's so much more difficult to get anything back that you give them.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:43 AM (3Y7RV)

88 Yes. Which is part of Let It Burn. Which I have just been told means I'm a socialist. Yeah. No.


Posted by: alexthechick at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (Gk3SS)

No that is not let it burn. The let it burn crowd wants to give them everything they want in an effort to completely collapse the country and go into chaos and revolution.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:44 AM (YdQQY)

89 84 New laptop, Windows 8. I'm so confused.
Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (pEOD

Should have bought a Mac.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:44 AM (3Y7RV)

90 Gabe: in my opinion, the dissonance comes from differing perceptions as well; your opinion is we should do what we can to save the republic. The other opinion is, that horse already left the barn and its time to rebuild- the faster the better.

I don't know.

Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 07:44 AM (I2LwF)

91 Here's a question to ponder;

Let's say that the GOP actually grows some stones and this time it's for real. Not one step further for you SCOAMF.

Does anyone believe that SCOAMF will act like a real president would, or will he openly and flagrantly disregard the House and Senate minority and just issue diktats?

And since we have a media that is a propaganda arm of the regime and an alarming percentage of the population that are illiterate/indifferent to the Constitutional and US history and law, what's to stop him?

Now, shit just got really real.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:44 AM (XkWWK)

92 Well J.J. he's already doing that, but if he starts doing it wholesale perhaps he will start goring the oxes of some of the retards that voted for him.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:46 AM (YdQQY)

93 92 Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:46 AM (YdQQY)

Agreed, Vic. It's just that there will come a time when even if the oxen get gored, it will be too late for them to have that Alex Guinness moment from "Kwai."

In the words of Clemenza, "you should've stopped him at the beginning, like Hitler at Munich. They was just askin' fer trouble."

And the hits just keep on comin'...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:48 AM (XkWWK)

94 63 -

Exactly. Do you really want your candidates in '14, and then your R nominee in '16 to be saying "I voted against the burning after I voted for it," as Lurch had to do in '04?

Does anybody really expect Rs to emerge from this mess without being blamed UNLESS THEY ARE LOUDLY AND REPEATEDLY AND CONSISTENTLY talking about opposing all the way up to and including during whatever burn might be coming? Even then it's about a 50/50 shot they'll be blamed, and the blame will stick in the minds of the mindless voters.

The burn may not be preventable, but I can't and won't sign onto it.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2012 07:49 AM (BeSEI)

95 @88

Count me in the let it collapse and something better will come from the ashes camp.


I look at what this country has become over my lifetime and I don't like it, I don't like the trajectory we are on.

We have been sliding toward socialism for the last 60 years we have now lurched toward socialism and have had the SCOTUS put it's imprimatur on it.

This country is done.

Time for America 2.0.


Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 07:49 AM (RrD4h)

96 LET. IT. BURN.

http://tinyurl.com/yzvmuaa


Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 30, 2012 07:50 AM (sbV1u)

97 Don't treaties require 2/3 of the Senate to be valid? Also, while I don't like to use the phrase LIB, I do think that the House needs to let the BCA be in effect without any continuing resolution or increase to the debt ceiling. Obviously, TFG and minions know that their proposal has no chance of getting passed by the House, it is just an over the top beginning bargaining position so they can get 3/4 of what they are asking for and another opportunity to bitch about the uncooperative Republicans.

Posted by: Museisluse at November 30, 2012 07:51 AM (SsWgR)

98 Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2012 07:49 AM (BeSEI)


It really doesn't matter what we do. From what I have seen we get blamed for everything the Democrats do that screws up. (and that is everything)



But we should still do what is best for the country and forget about the MFM.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:51 AM (YdQQY)

99 88 Let it Burn -- the TFG presents his fiscal plans and the GOP votes 'present'.

Shut it Down -- No debt ceiling increase.

So Vic is right, if these are the definitions for the actions suggested. Part of the problem of these conversations is the lack of clear definitions of what exactly is being advocated.

This in large part is why I conducted a poll here last month, giving my view of what the definitions are. We all need to be on the same page at least regarding what the proposals entail.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 07:51 AM (ccXZP)

100 89 84 New laptop, Windows 8. I'm so confused.
Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (pEOD

Should have bought a Mac.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:44 AM (3Y7RV)

Windows is Mac after a sex change. Or is it the other way around? Where's that Belgian guy who married a TV...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:52 AM (XkWWK)

101 When this LIB argument started after the election it started under the premise of "give him everything" and let it collapse and force them to eat it.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:53 AM (YdQQY)

102
My version of "let it burn" just says that you let BCA kick in and then come back in 2013 with a clean sheet of paper to propose tax cuts, entitlement reform, etc. from the House. This isn't exactly giving socialism a whirl.
Andy, that's not really much of a "let it burn," is it? Come back in January and try and fix the Democrats' mess that will only have been in effect for mere days? Sounds a lot like "fight the Dems in January," not "give Dems what they want by voting present."

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 07:54 AM (NfIvb)

103 >>But they piss in their pants every time the MFM looks at them cross-eyed.

Eh, might be kind of a problem that the MFM, as constituted, even acknowledges the existence of members of the House.

(Yeah, I was instantly thinking about a floppy penis and wrinkly orange, weepy balls just as I was typing about the House of Reps. )

She said members!

Posted by: Deety loves SMOD at November 30, 2012 07:54 AM (QG3g9)

104 The 'let it burn' types are the self-defeating bastards that lead to conservatives having no power. I have NO respect to those who ask the GOP to cave just because we lost an election. The reason that the libs always get what they want is because they relentlessly pursue liberalism at all times, while the GOP has a third of its base wail and cry uncle every time we face a setback. The way to make the libs 'own' this mess is to see that the GOP caves on NOTHING.

Posted by: In Exile at November 30, 2012 07:54 AM (Eqqye)

105 The Budget Control Act was passed to put an awful scenario on the table to force everyone back to the negotiating table. This happened a year ago, yet the unserious bastards in D.C. act like this so-called "fiscal cliff" is a creature of anything other than their own making.

There's a 99% chance any negotiated deal will just kick the can down the road to give them more time to work on it. They've already had a fucking year!

At some point, there has to be a line in the sand ... BATNA in negotiating parlance (thanks Maet) ... at which we say enough is enough and just let the BCA kick in and move on from there.

Barry's "offer" might have been laughable, but at least he and the left didn't fall all over themselves rushing to abandon their core positions like Boehner and McConnell did right after the election.

A big part of the reason we're in a weak negotiating position is that we have weak negotiators. That's not going to change any time soon.

Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 07:55 AM (OZPoa)

106 The gut instinct is definitely to let it burn. However there are ways to do it that would theoretically give cover to the GOP, i.e. voting "present" on budgetary issues and other monetary policy.

But when it comes to judicial nominees, treaties, and anything else that can further structurally damage the republic (if it isn't now damaged beyond all repair), then the GOP must oppose that tooth and nail.

Letting it burn will only work if it is quick enough so that the public can feel the pain, assign the blame, and learn the lesson. The one caveat is that they have been brainwashed for 30 years to hate conservatism/America/capitalism and the MFM will blame us no matter what we do.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:56 AM (XkWWK)

107 All of the B.S. about raising X amount of money, like maybe a trillion or two,over a "decade" is just hillarious! We are supposed to fix this mess in what, like sixteen decades?! Oh, yeah, that'll work. You betcha'. Don't want to burn nothin', but not gonna carry any water either as long as these yoyo's are driving the bus!

Posted by: and irresolute at November 30, 2012 07:56 AM (DBH1h)

108 @98

Do you really think the GOP establishments rushing out to offer concessions on taxes is doing what's good for the country?

It's a matter of sane policy proscriptions and principle.

It is unprincipled to offer tax hikes on a class of people simply because
you have bought into the 'fairness' canard of our enemy.

The money raised is a pittance and will make no discernible difference in
the budget shortfall.

I hate to say this but the Donks are acting in accordance with their principles and our side are unprincipled cowards.

The GOP is a useless pile of junk!



Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 07:57 AM (RrD4h)

109 The problem we have now is that House Republicans refuse to call his bluff in shutting it down and he knows it.


As long as he gets away with that he will control everything.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:57 AM (YdQQY)

110 The let it burn and fight like hell camps both make great points. That is however, the reason we lost the election. 50 shades of conservative. No cohesive message. some conservatives, when they don't get their way take their ball and go home. I think that is why we fail.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 07:58 AM (3Y7RV)

111 If I wrote down what I am now thinking, I would get banned at Hot Air.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 07:58 AM (XkWWK)

112
When this LIB argument started after the election it started under the premise of "give him everything" and let it collapse and force them to eat it.

So the proposal is to fight later because fighting now is just too hard?

The "let it collapse" part is what bothers me. The self-destruct that you are talking about won't be a small bump in the road. The economic and social wasteland thatthe Give Up And Let It Burn folks are asking for will not simply evaporate like a mirage during the next GOP administration. It will have long-lasting effects on both national and personal economies. You are talking about screwing with people's lives on a long-term basis in order to win political points that may or may not be up for grabs later.

In addition to the economic deficiencies with that argument, we have a moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist distaster as much as possible. Most people do face difficult decisions when the price of gas goes up. Most people do not buy fancy electronics on a whim. Many people have to worry about paying for their children's education and their spouse's health care and their retirement and their taxes.
And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 07:58 AM (NfIvb)

113 101 102 -

Exactly right. If you want to define let it burn as fighting against what Obama and Reid want, fine. Let's do that, and accept any and all consequences of a government shutdown, fiscal cliff or whatever they want to call it.

But if your definition of "let it burn" is ok, let's give in and let them have what they want, then no, I'm not signing on.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 30, 2012 07:58 AM (BeSEI)

114 This is the same argument we had back in 2010 when Republicans gained control of the House. I then argued that they needed to exert that authority, issue the partial department funding bills and tell him to take it or leave it.


I got a lot of blow-back from people who again thought it was not the hill to die on. Well that is the card that Boner played and we not only died on his hill, our Party rotted and now stinks.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:00 AM (YdQQY)

115 I bought a new laptop for my parents and it had Windows 8 on it. Our IT guy at work said get rid of it, so I returned it and paid extra to get Windows 7. Microsoft thinks it's Apple now with all the little boxes and apps and shit.

Posted by: Jaimo at November 30, 2012 08:00 AM (9U1OG)

116 'Let it burn' means taking our ball and going home.

Refusing to cave, thus allowing the sequester to happen is not letting it burn. Nor is forcing a default. Let it burn means giving up resistance.

Posted by: In Exile at November 30, 2012 08:00 AM (Eqqye)

117 84 New laptop, Windows 8. I'm so confused.
Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 07:41 AM (pEOD

Going to have to get yourself an "appropriate" input device. A "gesture" pad of some sort. That will snuff a bunch of your anxiety. Oh, and just quit looking for the Start thingy and you will feel better right away. (lol!)

Posted by: and irresolute at November 30, 2012 08:02 AM (DBH1h)

118 So the proposal is to fight later because fighting now is just too hard?
The "let it collapse" part is what bothers me.



Don't misunderstand me, I am not part of the LIB camp. I have stated many times we should explore all opportunities include an Art V convention before going into revolution and anarchy.


I am in the House exercise some guts and defund them.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:02 AM (YdQQY)

119
Don't misunderstand me, I am not part of the LIB camp.

Oh, I know. I didn't mean to give that impression.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 08:04 AM (NfIvb)

120
The problem with letting it burn is that the majority of us are going to burn along with the brain-dead miscreants that voted for this.

So, how can we solve the age old Gordian knot of making chicken salad out of chicken shit?

If we had an actual party that would talk and act the way we wanted them to, we might have a chance. But as history has shown us, to our bitter disappointment, we do not.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:04 AM (XkWWK)

121 I'm posting the poll results link so people can see what I proposed as our options, and their definitions, about 3 weeks ago. Don't bother to vote on the poll itself; I'd like to clarify the definitions if that is even possible before running the poll again.

http://poll.pollcode.com/9kph4q_result?v

There's lots of people in either the LIB and SID camps. If a clear proposal can be made for either, then we could organize a calling campaign to our House representatives, the only real power we here have to affect anything in DC.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 08:05 AM (ccXZP)

122 >>>It would be awesome to have Jeff Katz back. And, yeah, Kuhner is an idiot.

Katz was awesome. Holly and Joe did a decent job on Thursdays too.

It's really odd that Talk 1200, Michael Savage, conservative talk stations in Brockton, Fall River and New Bedford, and other conservative talkers all left he air over the summer, when presumably they would be rolling into their most lucrative ratings season-- election time.

Or maybe it's not so odd. Maybe it was by design.

Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 08:05 AM (I2LwF)

123 This ain't about "taking the ball and going home." It's about the FACT there is no home left. They are wanting to kill the free economy, and economic sovereignty of the electorate.

Time to let nature take its course and Run Red and let the fucking retards who think electricity just magically happens get the reward of their fuckhood.

Get out of their way and let the legislate prosperity.

Fuck the left b/c they fucked us all.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:06 AM (lbNG/)

124 And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.

Yep. The fuckers voted for this bullshit. Let 'em suffer.

Posted by: GMan at November 30, 2012 08:07 AM (sxq57)

125 It's not acceding to evil. As Ace pointed out, the only way to show to the idiot Honey Boo Boo's out there that we can't solve all our problems by taxing the rich is by taxing the rich and letting them feel the consequences.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 30, 2012 08:07 AM (QXlbZ)

126 @116

Let it burn has different meanings to different people.

My version of letting it burn is simply having the GOP just stop cooperating
and offer up principled positions from here on out.

No taxes will be raised period.
No new regulations will be passed.
No help in implementing Obamacare.
No nominee gets through any process.

In short no cooperation with the enemy and offer principled
policy proscriptions.

If that results in government paralysis or shutdown so be it.

This shit has got to stop and it has got to stop now.

It's more than likely too late to save the republic.

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 08:07 AM (RrD4h)

127 I'm glad George Washingtons troops, when freezing and starving didn't let it burn or take their ball and go home. They stood and fought.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 08:08 AM (3Y7RV)

128 Soothsayer is from Mass too? God damn we need a meetup.

Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 08:08 AM (I2LwF)

129 Gabe, you can't be so displaced from the math that you think this shitshow matters, really?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-06/it-doesnt-matter

Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 08:08 AM (s9K+V)

130 Oh, goody! Maybe the Norks will give the savior-o-d-people a chance to ignore our fiscal problems and "focus" on the bigger issues of a rocket launch ... wonder if he asked them to give him a little help, by providing a flaming bag of shit for him to stomp on?

Posted by: and irresolute at November 30, 2012 08:09 AM (DBH1h)

131 Sorry haters, but Barack Obama won. He gets to call the shots. So sit on your right-wing racism and allow him to get on with saving the country from the mess that eight years of that retarded chimp faux-cowboy Bush made.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at November 30, 2012 08:10 AM (jCQ+I)

132 Sock puppet Mary-You've gotten really boring at this point.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 30, 2012 08:11 AM (v8RoL)

133 And an upper-decker @131

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 08:12 AM (RrD4h)

134 Think of it like this. Letting it burn is like the Muzzie subhumans who in their zeal to torch the Stars and Stripes wind up either immolating or asphyxiating themselves.

My version of LIB is to SID. They will suffer more when (really if) we can starve the Leviathan and put the money junkies in withdrawal. But the problem with that is that we will end up looking like the evil greedy bastards depriving them of their civil rights, or some such lie.

LIB leaves too much room for all of us to suffer, for the scumbags to still not learn a lesson as to why they are suffering, and for other structural damage (UN treaty ratifications and activist judge appointments to name a few) to be so bad as to prevent the phoenix from rising.

Controlled burning as an alternative to LIB???

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:12 AM (XkWWK)

135 >> Andy, that's not really much of a "let it burn," is it? Come back in January and try and fix the Democrats' mess that will only have been in effect for mere days? Sounds a lot like "fight the Dems in January," not "give Dems what they want by voting present."

Yeah, I'm not saying we quit fighting the good fight forever. But on the "fiscal cliff" we need to shoot the hostage.

Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 08:13 AM (OZPoa)

136 I might have been a bit naughty last night

Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 08:14 AM (uFY4s)

137 Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at November 30, 2012 08:10 AM (jCQ+I)



C'mon now, at this point you're just phoning it in. Where's the incoherent Mary we all know and love?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 30, 2012 08:14 AM (sbV1u)

138 “putted from the rough,”

Never heard that before. My thing to learn today.

.

Well, I actually have used a putter.....from

...you know,

.....the rough. When I didn't want to overstroke the wedge or a 3-iron.

Oh, never mind.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 08:15 AM (M5nqD)

139 125 It's not acceding to evil. As Ace pointed out, the only way to show to the idiot Honey Boo Boo's out there that we can't solve all our problems by taxing the rich is by taxing the rich and letting them feel the consequences.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 30, 2012 08:07 AM (QXlbZ)


This presupposes that the Honey Boo-Boo's are smart enough to draw the correct conclusion. Thanks to public school indoctrination and the MFM, they will believe that the rich are hiding their money or cheating.

Ugh. (deep sigh)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:15 AM (XkWWK)

140 127 OSP,

Nice use of meaphor, I'm as glad that General Washington refused to attack on Xmas and allowed the King to run his PR campaign...oh wait.

George Washington would be saying BURN IT DOWN sport.

Get over your flag fetish and look at what a monster it's become.

Fucking left and their 1% bullshit, the Feds own 60% of te nation and we let the motherfucking sierra club pretend they own the resources.

Get out of Barry's way and let the unicorns begin.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:16 AM (lbNG/)

141 I wonder if the Norks are gonna toss one in the direction of Hawaii again? Like during the 'Saviors' trip there. Interesting that the US is preparing missile defense network.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 30, 2012 08:17 AM (feFL6)

142
While I'm in the let it burn camp, I am also in the It-Doesn't-Matter camp referred to above.
We are well over $16 TRILLION dollars in debt, adding a trillion more each year with no end in site. D.C. cannot even pretend to halt the spending.
Sooner or later math will toll the bell and it all will burn. I would rather it be sooner so my kids can have a chance in the future.
Fight, argue all you want. It doesn't matter.

Posted by: jj at November 30, 2012 08:17 AM (gWO5X)

143 The strategy from here on out is to make it as difficult as possible for the enemy to move the ball leftward.

Obstruct, hamper, harass and harry the enemy.

Cooperation is capitulation to fascism and statism!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 08:17 AM (RrD4h)

144 No Vic,

The "Let it Burn" or SMOD mentality is what happens when you just CAN'T be cynical enough.

I'm never gonna have a porch like you have.

I think that I will spend the next 20 years of my life fighting for the care of my elderly father.

Then, I get to shoot myself!

If I do my duty, I will be 60 years old before I get to be "single " again...




Posted by: Deety loves SMOD at November 30, 2012 08:18 AM (QG3g9)

145
Gabe, you can't be so displaced from the math that you think this shitshow matters, really?

Your math is wrong because it treats entitlements as untouchable. Unless you are a Democrat, who actually thinks that they are untouchable, you have no excuse for buying that bullshit.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 08:18 AM (NfIvb)

146 Actually, the Mary Cloggenstein sock is instructive. She is a faux figure of mockery, poking fun at what we all believed in our hearts was a tiny minority of our fellow citizens but turns out to be closer to the truth for far more of them than we ever feared.

2012 was the 9-11 of politics
Thus ended the grand experiment. Forward to EuroSocialism

Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 30, 2012 08:18 AM (+VMZ0)

147 You are talking about screwing with people's lives on a long-term basis in order to win political points that may or may not be up for grabs later.

No, Gabe, I - and, I suspect, a number of the commenters are talking about "screwing with people's lives" to teach them a goddamn lesson. If you're too stupid to look beyond either side's pretty ponies and vote for the dog-eating retard because he's "cool" or "understands people like me," you're not worthy of even having a vote and you should get it in the shorts good and hard.
In addition to the economic deficiencies with that argument, we have a moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist distaster as much as possible.

I'm not my brother's keeper, as a certain coke-snorting Kenyan has proven.

Most people do face difficult decisions when the price of gas goes up. Most people do not buy fancy electronics on a whim. Many people have to worry about paying for their children's education and their spouse's health care and their retirement and their taxes. And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.

Yes. This x1000. You voted for Barky or stayed home because Mitt seemed slimy, then fuck you. Go bankrupt and die. I'm no longer pretending that O voters are my countrymen in any meaningful way other than that they occupy the same land mass.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 08:19 AM (zF6Iw)

148 If any 4 of us were locked together in a room for a week to come up with a firm plan, there would be:

1. Six or more plans.
2. A Val-U-Rite shortage after the second hour.
3. Bloodshed.
4. A football thread and cheerleader links.
5. Lots of cursing.
6. All of the above.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 08:19 AM (ccXZP)

149 I am LIB. And by that I mean that the Republicans should say they won't block anything that meets the requirements of the sequestration legislation, and that if the Dems won't propose and vote for that, then sequestration goes through.

And to stop pretending that sequestration and the fiscal cliff are the worst things ever. Newt has some good messaging on this. It is a cut, we need to cut, and the Dems just showed they would kick it down the road.

So the key is staying within the parameters. This thing proposed by the President is just nuts.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 30, 2012 08:20 AM (/1U3u)

150 >>Soothsayer is from Mass too? God damn we need a meetup.

Massholes, they're everywhere!

Posted by: garrett at November 30, 2012 08:20 AM (nfjVs)

151 139 125 It's not acceding to evil. As Ace pointed out, the only way to show to the idiot Honey Boo Boo's out there that we can't solve all our problems by taxing the rich is by taxing the rich and letting them feel the consequences.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 30, 2012 08:07 AM (QXlbZ)


When there are bread riots, people don't ask for lower taxes. They start breaking into 'wealthy' peoples' houses and looting merchant shops.

That's our trajectory. And I suspect, exactly what the left wants.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 08:20 AM (ZSnCv)

152 143 Posted by: General Woundwort at November 30, 2012 08:17 AM (RrD4h)


I think I am moving more and more into this camp as the days pass.

Not One Inch Leftward.

But we desperately need generalship to both implement this defense and to explain it to the people. The big IF there is are the people receptive to our message? Considering the MFM and public school re-education, I have my doubts.

But it must be done. Hold the line here and now, however we can. This really is the hill to die on. If we don't, then we will die in a ditch of their choosing. Metaphorically and perhaps literally.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:21 AM (XkWWK)

153 In addition to the economic deficiencies with that argument, we have a
moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist distaster as much as possible.


On what grounds? The majority want what the dems are selling. They voted for this. What possible reason do we have to stop them from getting what they asked for?

You still cling to the hope that there will be more rational people 2 years from now, 4 years from now, that will stop and take account of what just happened during TFG's reign. You are deluded if you think people will suddenly realize their grave mistake. The LiB strategy is a reset button, and the best possible option we have now "mitigate the Leftist disaster as much as possible".

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 08:22 AM (GQ8sn)

154 Your math is wrong because it treats entitlements as untouchable. Unless you are a Democrat, who actually thinks that they are untouchable, you have no excuse for buying that bullshit.

In theory that is true, but let's be honest - there is no Republican willing to touch them. Even the Mitt-Ryan plan was to cut entitlements later on.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 08:23 AM (ZSnCv)

155 145 Gabe,

Hey Gabe entitlemets ARE untouchable. Vic just said "don't touch my shiny."

The GOP members of Free Shit Army reelected Giggles the Marxist Clown by sittting out.

There were never two pots of money it was always a lie FDR fucked the Republic 90 years ago.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:23 AM (lbNG/)

156 And apologies for the brusqueness - this cold is really nailing me and affecting my usual manic-depressive behavior more than usual.

I'm more in the "controlled burn" camp, I would guess, but I still want to see my idiot neighbors publicly crying about how they have to sell off their bone marrow to fill their gas tanks.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 08:23 AM (zF6Iw)

157 Letting it burn will only work if it is quick enough so that the public can feel the pain, assign the blame, and learn the lesson.

I made the analogy yesterday that it's like teaching my chocolate lab when she was a puppy (because that's about the average intellectual wattage of voterus Americanus). If the stupid action is not followed fairly immediately by punishment/corrective action, the stupid actions will continue or get worse.

I'm also reminded of Rudyard Kipling's short story, can't remember which one, in which he said it's much better for a puppy to eat some shoe polish (he called it "shoe black," racist!), because he can only eat a little and he can learn the lesson. A grown dog can eat enough that it'll kill him.

Well, as one in the LIB camp, it seems to me that we, as a society, have eaten a fatal dose of Kiwi's finest.

Posted by: jakeman at November 30, 2012 08:23 AM (96M6e)

158 Cynicism is a feeling. Math doesn't care about your emotional prism. The fact is even if we eliminated ALL discretionary spending, and increased tax revenues to 20%, we wouldn't even be balancing the budget. We are in the perpetual debt spiral. We have stagnant GDP growth despite QE1, 2, 3, and daily purchase of MBS by the Fed.

It's over.

Arguments over tax-rates are a distraction. The effects are miniscule in comparison to that of the debt burden, deficit, and potential for even greater inflation.

Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 08:23 AM (s9K+V)

159 No matter what tax rates you use, you're not going to collect more than ~20% of GDP in revenues. So let's just go back to the old rates (for EVERYONE!) and take the "Bush Tax Cuts For The Rich" talking point off the table forever.

And on sequestration, well, that appears to be the only way to get a spending cut, so bring it on.

Posted by: Andy at November 30, 2012 08:23 AM (OZPoa)

160 Go bankrupt and die. I'm no longer pretending that O voters are my
countrymen in any meaningful way other than that they occupy the same
land mass.


This X10000

Posted by: GMan at November 30, 2012 08:25 AM (sxq57)

161 I am in the "Never give up" camp. House GOP must NOT concede anything. If Obama wants to veto, let him. Let him own this fucking mess. Let's see how everyone who voted for him like it that 2nd and 3rd week in January when they see their take home pay shrink.

Unfortunately, I expect Boner to weasel-out.

Posted by: Al at November 30, 2012 08:25 AM (V70Uh)

162 This presupposes that the Honey Boo-Boo's are smart enough to draw the correct conclusion. Thanks to public school indoctrination and the MFM, they will believe that the rich are hiding their money or cheating.

Ugh. (deep sigh)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:15 AM (XkWWK)


We were voicing those same concerns on the ONT, last night. I don't think they will either. They'll want to call for either more Dear Leader or another Dear Leader just like the old Dear Leader.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 08:27 AM (M5nqD)

163 Four more years of lame duck gridlock! Forward!

Posted by: Fritz at November 30, 2012 08:27 AM (/ZZCn)

164 I'm tired of caring....

Let It Burntm

Posted by: UnR00ster at November 30, 2012 08:27 AM (48wze)

165 Hey Gabe entitlemets ARE untouchable. Vic just said "don't touch my shiny."


That is not what I said. What I said was now is not the time to introduce that into the debate. We know that will be a hard nut to crack and it has nothing to do with the problem we are facing now. So why are the Republicans even bringing it up?

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:28 AM (YdQQY)

166 117

Going to have to get yourself an "appropriate" input device. A "gesture" pad of some sort. That will snuff a bunch of your anxiety. Oh, and just quit looking for the Start thingy and you will feel better right away. (lol!)
Posted by: and irresolute at November 30, 2012 08:02 AM (DBH1h)




That's my biggest problem...I keep looking for the Start menu lol!

Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 30, 2012 08:28 AM (HeCg1)

167 The R's need to be yelling, standing on chairs, interviewing with anyone that will talk to them: We refuse to load the rest of the country into the car to ride over the cliff with the President. Some "Grownup" has to say "very, very bad idea!" and put a halt to the crazy ass spending. Just like a 6 year old, these Libs will spend and spend and spend and never worry about the bill that the Parents have to pay or how all this spending will keep them broke for generations - No Sesame Street, no Disney, we are BROKE!!

Posted by: Rob in Katy at November 30, 2012 08:29 AM (PiTBB)

168 Also, after looking at the final vote numbers there is no evidence that a lot of Republicans sat it out.


We lost because the free shit army still turned out for Obama

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:29 AM (YdQQY)

169
Yes. This x1000. You voted for Barky or stayed home because Mitt seemed slimy, then fuck you. Go bankrupt and die. I'm no longer pretending that O voters are my countrymen in any meaningful way.

No. No x1000. You're proposing to screw everyone, not just Obama voters.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 08:30 AM (NfIvb)

170 "The bottom line, of course, is that we're in a complete reversal of our usual roles right now. McConnell and other leaders in D.C. are trying to put the brakes on economy-killing "progressive" ideas . . . while conservative commentators are ready to give in and give socialism a try.

I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it."

I don't say "let's try socialism." I'm saying America has said "let's try socialism," and any argument against I might make wastes my time and annoys America.

I say let's go off the fiscal cliff, let's not increase the debt ceiling any more, and let's not pass another continuing resolution; make Obama propose a truly balanced budget. If the government shuts down, it shuts down. If it burns, it burns.

One huge advantage of Let. It. Burn. is that the people who would try to make political hay off of us for letting it burn will not survive the conflagration.

Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 08:31 AM (OY/SZ)

171 I'm with Andy. Don't even bother with these duplicitous assweasels. Walk away from the table and shut it down until they cry or just dissolve the Congress.

Which they will, one way or another.

Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 08:31 AM (1MEpe)

172 Unfortunately, we are in this together. For the electorate to learn from their stupidity, most of us will have to suffer.

Posted by: Al at November 30, 2012 08:33 AM (V70Uh)

173 160 Go bankrupt and die. I'm no longer pretending that O voters are my countrymen in any meaningful way other than that they occupy the same land mass.

I reached that conclusion some time ago. That's exactly what it was, pretending. I used to just kinda laugh about it.

I don't laugh anymore. I sigh.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 08:33 AM (M5nqD)

174 Don't touch the precious!

Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 08:33 AM (uFY4s)

175 173,

I learned that on Nov 6. My countrymen want to steal my property. Fuck em.

Posted by: Al at November 30, 2012 08:34 AM (V70Uh)

176 That is not what I said. What I said was now is not the time to introduce that into the debate. We know that will be a hard nut to crack and it has nothing to do with the problem we are facing now. So why are the Republicans even bringing it up?
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:28 AM (YdQQY)



Because if not now, when? That is an actual question. When, exactly and specifically, should this be brought up? I have been told for the last 30 years or so that entitlements, by which I mean Social Security and Medicare, are completely unsustainable. That is a True Fact. I've also been told that something must be done at some future date but that now is not the time to do something. Every single solitary time that entitlement reform is mentioned, I've been told that now is not the time.

Well, guess what? That way way way far off in the distance date when Social Security and Medicare will be insolvent is now. It is utterly impossible to fix the deficit mess without addressing entitlements. Hell, it is going to be nigh to impossible to do it even with addressing entitlements. So, Vic, if not now, then when? Seriously, when, exactly, should this be addressed? You have proven yourself to be a serious thinker on these issues, so please tell me what is the appropriate time to finally, finally tackle the entitlements issue.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 08:34 AM (VtjlW)

177 >>alex of the banned IP address

What do you expect when you drink an entire box of wine and start taking swings at the hamsters!?

Posted by: garrett at November 30, 2012 08:35 AM (nfjVs)

178 Sigh

Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 08:35 AM (uFY4s)

179 We lost because the free shit army still turned out for Obama

Agreed. Now, do you think the FSA is going to get A) bigger, or B) smaller in the next four years? Would an improving economy change your answer? How 'bout a flat, "muddling through" economy? What if things continue to get worse?

I can't conjure up a *single* scenario in which the FSA gets smaller in our environment. There's seriously no consequence to enlisting, and our infantilized society has been taught that it's what they "deserve." It's like when people are happy that they get to file an insurance claim on their car or house, because finally they get a direct benefit from all the money they've paid in.

Posted by: jakeman at November 30, 2012 08:36 AM (96M6e)

180 'Morning, 'M's and 'Ettes'.

Don't you wish the Republicans had at least as much skill as anyone who has played hardball buying a car from a stacked deck dealership or better yet, an over priced house?

This game is no mystery. There are moves we could be making that look good to the public but just frustrate the crap out of the WH. I would love see one of these guys run some gambit that shows that they know how to do it. I'm not optimistic.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 08:36 AM (6H6FZ)

181 sorry, man. I couldn't help it.

Posted by: garrett at November 30, 2012 08:36 AM (nfjVs)

182 TGIF everyone!

News is too depressing, so how about a puppy picture?

https://twitter.com/moxiemom/status/274506907807535105

Posted by: Y-not at November 30, 2012 08:37 AM (5H6zj)

183 No. No x1000. You're proposing to screw everyone, not just Obama voters.

What we have had for a while and will have as far as I can see into the future is people who choose not to be parasites being screwed for choosing not to be parasites.

As people give up and switch from being non-parasites to being parasites, the burden gets heavier, and there are fewer remaining to carry that burden.

They are too damned heavy, and they are not my brothers.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 08:37 AM (V3kRK)

184 "No. No x1000. You're proposing to screw everyone, not just Obama voters."

This presupposes that the people who didn't vote for Obama aren't screwed. News flash: we are.

Republicans turned out. We were outvoted by people who think they can vote themselves goodies from the public treasury.

This cannot end well. It will not end well. And trying to delay that end means that the inevitable crash will do all that much more damage.

Better to crash the system now, with a reasonable hope of getting a modern, functioning society on line after a few years' interregnum, than to waste the remaining seed corn trying to prevent the crash.

Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 08:37 AM (OY/SZ)

185 AtC, I will repeat what I posted:

Note also that the Republican call for a cut in "entitlements" is not
only bad politics, it is premature and not needed for the current mess.


As
I said earlier, we got here because Obama jacked up spending to
$4T/year with a $1.1T deficit. We didn't get here because of SS and
medicare and we didn't get here because of taxes. The FIRST thing that
needs to be done is restore the budget to pre-Obama levels.


Following that we can look at some of the more long term actions. For now ZERO taxes should be on the table.


Congressional response to the Dems and Obama should be eat shit and die, we will shut it down.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:37 AM (YdQQY)

186 165 Vic,

Vic I didn't mean to imply you were a sit out. Entitlemets ARE the problem b/c they fostered a kick the can attitude on matters economic.

The Feds can kill ALL non entitlement spending and still bankrupt the nation.

It's that bad.

This election was literally our last chance to work our way out and salvage ANY "social contract" and we voted to legislate paychecks.

Thenation is over, I will save my people and help as many good folk as I can but I hatethe democrats more than Jihadi Jim.

They made that clear in 2001-2009 I am now their mirror.

Not one step left ever again but the game is rigged and I am no longe4r buying into Gabe's bullshit "you have a moral duty to help the drunk driver drive better."

No I can get out of the car or prepare for the crash.

I hope Honey Boo dies Vic the fucking poor empower people who want me out of work and a voluntary energy crisis.

Let the bodies hit the floor.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:38 AM (lbNG/)

187 Well. Thank goodness I still have porn, soda pop, and tobacco.

For now.

Posted by: Truman North at November 30, 2012 08:38 AM (I2LwF)

188 By wine do you mean Le tap, and by hamster do you mean .....

Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 08:38 AM (uFY4s)

189 Posted by: jakeman at November 30, 2012 08:36 AM (96M6e)


I think the FSA will be much smaller if they do not run another "magic negro".

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:38 AM (YdQQY)

190 "The problem with letting it burn is that the majority of us are going to burn along with the brain-dead miscreants that voted for this."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:04 AM (XkWWK)

Can somebody please write this in 10 foot high letters across the top of the blog?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 30, 2012 08:38 AM (GsoHv)

191 "We lost because the free shit army still turned out for Obama"

The problem is it's a combination of entitlement fiends, and easy-credit Keynesian piddle-down "economists," both pointing the finger at each other.

Pot meet kettle.

Both shall return to the fire.

Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 08:39 AM (s9K+V)

192 Here's the scenario. Bush era tax cuts expire. Disposable income of millions of Americans evaporates. They cut spending to the bone out of necessity. Tens of thousands of businesses cut back hours as stores are emptied of customers. Then they cut back employee hours and lay off millions. Millions more sign up for free stuff through government and become Democrats for life. One trillion dollar a year deficit becomes two trillion dollars a year.

Republicans get blamed for Depression 2.0

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 30, 2012 08:40 AM (feFL6)

193 I can't conjure up a *single* scenario in which the FSA gets smaller in our environment.

I can.

1. Restrict the ability of the sociopath to hand out the free shit.

2. Force that sociopath to pick and choose which factions of his free shit army get shorted and which factions get the full measure.

3. Set the factions of his free shit army on going after the sociopath and each other and paint those ugly blue stains on the electoral map red with blood.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 08:41 AM (V3kRK)

194
Voter fraud isn't a problem. No, never.

And Republicans even continue to believe it isn't a problem. It may not be enough to sway 3 million votes to the other side, but it can affect individual districts----especially House or local candidates. So until it's addressed by both parties and naysayers, we'll probably have a liberal majority.

Posted by: Mo the Girl at November 30, 2012 08:41 AM (EWshu)

195 Don't "let it burn."

BURN IT.

Posted by: apotheosis at November 30, 2012 08:42 AM (xWk3U)

196 175 173,

I learned that on Nov 6. My countrymen want to steal my property. Fuck em.

Posted by: Al at November 30, 2012 08:34 AM (V70Uh)



They really do. What was the old saw about sharing the wealth? Pfffft. No, they just want to steal it.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 08:42 AM (M5nqD)

197 Gnu at 66, a great moron spin-off from that site would be tax dollars saved by gunfire. Simple metric : avg sentence x avg incarceration cost, could get all fancy and include a bump for the assumed recidivism.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2012 08:43 AM (3FXA5)

198 Red with the blood of our enemies

Posted by: alex of the banned IP address at November 30, 2012 08:45 AM (uFY4s)

199 AtC, I will repeat what I posted:



Vic, I read what you posted. Reposting it is not responsive in any possible way to the question I posed to you. Let me be brief, when do you, you specifically, not the incoahte you, when do you think is the right time to address entitlement reform? Or do you believe that entitlements do not need to be addressed?

Your position is that now is not the time. My question to you is when do you believe the time will be ripe. Merely saying well, it's not now is wholly unresponsive.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 08:45 AM (VtjlW)

200 190, move South now

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2012 08:45 AM (3FXA5)

201 190 Can somebody please write this in 10 foot high letters across the top of the blog?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 30, 2012 08:38 AM (GsoHv)

Cheers, bro.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:46 AM (XkWWK)

202 It is going to burn sooner or later, no matter what the Rs in DC try to do. That debate is not the hot button. Short and long term strategies for not letting the crisis go to waste is what we ought to be spending more time on.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 08:46 AM (6H6FZ)

203 Man, whatever. Remember the last time we did this dance and after you stripped all the bullshit away, the GOP had "negotiated" a few million in cuts?

Remember when Bitch McConnell coulda forced the Democrats to ram through Obamacare over Christmas, but didn't because he wanted to go home and sip egg nog with his family?

It's going to be more of the same. Bitch and Boner will kick the can again.

It doesn't have to be this way. They could be hammering Obama's 1st term promise to halve the deficit. They could demand he submit plans to do just that, reminding the public over and over again that this was HIS promise.

They could drag Erskin Bowles out and remind everyone Obama ignored the debt commissions recommendations.

They could offer to go back to Clinton era taxation in exchange for Clinton era spending. Everyone knows the Clinton years were perfect, right? What's he gonna say to that?

Or they could cut ads replaying the debate clip where Obama claims he will cut 3 dollars in spending for every one dollar in tax increases.

But they will do NONE of that. They will do nothing clever. They'll make a bunch of noise then agree to kick the can.

They let you down every single time.

This is all a waste of time. Let it burn.

Posted by: Warden at November 30, 2012 08:46 AM (0DlnM)

204 we need to shoot the hostage.

Not the arrow again.


Posted by: Your Knee at November 30, 2012 08:46 AM (Xefrb)

205 It's like when people are happy that they get to file an insurance claim on their car or house, because finally they get a direct benefit from all the money they've paid in.
Posted by: jakeman at November 30, 2012 08:36 AM (96M6e)


Bad analogy, but I understand what you're trying to say.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 30, 2012 08:47 AM (M5nqD)

206 So, $100,000 to fund a study on teen pregnancy to help them avoid pregnancy and teach them "condom negotiation" tactics. Just great.

Listen, I love Glenn Beck, but I just can't get on the optimistic "Prepare for a fight" bandwagon. Let our country burn. Every last bit of it.

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 30, 2012 08:47 AM (E1Vkf)

207 Hey, folks, this LIB/Fiscal Cliff shit is peanuts. What's coming at us from Europe is a gazillion times more powerful. And it will commence in the French banking system. It will force LIB on us and there ain't nothing we can do about it except sit back and watch.

It. Is. Coming. Count on it.

Posted by: Sukie Tawdry at November 30, 2012 08:47 AM (MPtFW)

208 There is little difference in the end between Let it Burn and Make it Burn.

Let it burn is giving them what they want, and letting it collapse of its own weight.

Make it burn is not cooperating and letting it collapse of its own weight.

Either way, this bitch is going down. That much has been obvious since HW Bush. People are just now waking up to that inconvenient truth.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (8cJXl)

209 "Here's the scenario. Bush era tax cuts expire. Disposable income of millions of Americans evaporates. They cut spending to the bone out of necessity. Tens of thousands of businesses cut back hours as stores are emptied of customers. Then they cut back employee hours and lay off millions. Millions more sign up for free stuff through government and become Democrats for life. One trillion dollar a year deficit becomes two trillion dollars a year.

Republicans get blamed for Depression 2.0"

F*** it. We get blamed no matter what.

Don't raise the debt ceiling. Don't pass another continuing resolution.

The FSA goes cold turkey and kills themselves off in an orgy of Let. It. Burn.

And then we pick up the pieces and start over.

Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (OY/SZ)

210 Fast Food workers in NYC walk off the job demanding $15/hour. Claim they can not live off of current salary in NYC.
-----
Counter that offer with a 50% pay cut and half the hours.

Posted by: Whatev at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (2t6Gz)

211 I can't conjure up a *single* scenario in which the FSA gets smaller in our environment.
Maybe you can't shrink it, but you can defeat it. Offer one faction more at the expense of the others.

Our enemy is more or less barbarian hordes without the horseriding acumen. The way outnumbered civilized people keep them at bay is to play the barbarians off against each other.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (FkKjr)

212 Sorry, here's the link:

http://tinyurl.com/c7q664x

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (E1Vkf)

213 190
"The problem with letting it burn is that the majority of us are going
to burn along with the brain-dead miscreants that voted for this."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:04 AM (XkWWK)

Can somebody please write this in 10 foot high letters across the top of the blog?


How many years of your remaining life do you want to go about supporting the FSA?

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (GQ8sn)

214 We will have to address SSDI first if smart. That is the biggest problem we have with SS now. I have seen article posing that 50% of SSDI payments are outright fraud or misdirected from the purpose of the program. We could do that as soon as we get some more Republicans elected. Possibly as early as 2010.


SS and Medicare changes will have to be phased in over a period of years. My solution for that would be that assuming we have a Party left in 2016 call for a program that broke down by ages to to completely phase both of them completely out.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:49 AM (YdQQY)

215 3 Senate approves measure to block Feinstein’s attempts to move GITMO terrorists to the US. If I am not mistaken we already have a law on the books for that. Oshitforbrains is already threatening veto.

http://is.gd/fNO9mI

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 06:58 AM (YdQQY)



Coming in late, but the past few years Congress has been passing defense authorization bills with language specifying "no funds to move terrorists from Gitmo to the U.S." on an annual basis. Yesterday's vote in the Senate on an Ayotte-sponsored amendment would make the "no funds" law permanent and get rid of the annual exercise.

Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at November 30, 2012 08:51 AM (mepMv)

216 Man, whatever. Remember the last time we did this dance and after you
stripped all the bullshit away, the GOP had "negotiated" a few million
in cuts?



Actually as it turned out it wasn't even that. The final deal was a 30M cut in the requested increase that Obama wanted. There was no real cut in spending at all.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:51 AM (YdQQY)

217 "The problem with letting it burn is that the majority of us are going
to burn along with the brain-dead miscreants that voted for this."
----
It was already going to burn, that's been his whole plan.

Posted by: Whatev at November 30, 2012 08:51 AM (2t6Gz)

218 SS and Medicare changes will have to be phased in over a period of years. My solution for that would be that assuming we have a Party left in 2016 call for a program that broke down by ages to to completely phase both of them completely out.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:49 AM (YdQQY)



Thank you for answering. Just to clarify, your position is that SSDI should be addressed now and that Republicans should not even mention SS and Medicare reform until 2016? I want to be sure I am accurate in my understanding.


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 08:52 AM (VtjlW)

219 The other thing Vic, I argued about "save them from the pain we won they have to know that this can't go on."

You going on about "Crying boner" and such.

I left the "save the pain camp."

The fact is the media will not let the people hear our case and I am not sure our case can be made in the 15 seconds Free Shit Army can spare to listen.

It is going down, I'm preparing for the schism and I will vote with my feet.

Fact is the "we have a moral obligation to allow Free Shit Army to prevent economic growth and kill our freedom" ship has sailed and I am happy I am no longer on that boat.

Fuck the left they fucked us.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:52 AM (LRFds)

220 213 Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (GQ8sn)


You are missing the point. How do you defeat, destroy, decimate, debilitate, decapitate the Free Shit Army whilst not chopping off your own head in the process?

Figure that one out and you will win a very big cookie.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 30, 2012 08:52 AM (XkWWK)

221 197 >> Gnu at 66, a great moron spin-off from that site would be tax dollars
saved by gunfire. Simple metric : avg sentence x avg incarceration
cost, could get all fancy and include a bump for the assumed recidivism.

Jean, you'd have to offset that savings though by those only wounded. They get free medical care on top of trial costs, free attorneys, court time, etc. We need better shooters.

What surprised me at the site was the sheer number of reported instances in just one month. Whole lotta stoppin' crime goin' on by citizens.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 30, 2012 08:52 AM (ccXZP)

222 I don't get it.

Let sequestion happen - its cuts which are needed, and besides - democrats said the 2003 tax cuts were for the rich only. Remind them all of that, Jon Stewart, every democrat in the senate, Andrea Mitchell, Chris Matthews - every one of them said these 2003 tax cuts were for the wealthiest americans, so there should be no issue to give Obama what he wants here, and raise taxes on the rich only.

The problem is that republicans that get on TV need to be snarky assholes who harp on 1 talking point like this over and over again. Scream over the scrunts if you have to. Instead we get Boehner describing tax increases as "revenue enhancements". F that.

Posted by: realityman at November 30, 2012 08:52 AM (obXkJ)

223 When this LIB argument started after the election it started under the premise of "give him everything" and let it collapse and force them to eat it.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:53 AM (YdQQY)
==============

While I can sympathize with that line of thought we all know d*mn well that the JEF will NEVER be forced to "eat" anything so the whole idea is really just a pipe dream.

IMHO it is better to state a position, hold the line on that position, and let the chips fall where they may.

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2012 08:53 AM (RSqz2)

224 Bevel is right, see the British colonial policy. We need to pick a minority, then favor them with jobs and guns. I'm nominating asian lesbians with webcams, any seconds.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2012 08:53 AM (WnnBz)

225 Anything that embarrasses Turbo Tax"Timmeh!" Geithner is all right with me

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 30, 2012 08:54 AM (4df7R)

226 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 08:52 AM (VtjlW)


Oh they can "mention" it but it should not be part of what we are trying to negotiate now. It has nothing to do with the crap sandwich they are trying to eat now.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:55 AM (YdQQY)

227 210 Whatev,

No no Gabe says we must meet them at least at 10.50 an hour....

Fuck them you don't legislate your pay and if you walk off a job fire 'em and if need be kill the business.

We sit on 700+ years of coal, shale, and NG and we are not allowed to exploit it....

I hate the moontards.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:55 AM (LRFds)

228 I'm nominating asian lesbians with webcams, any seconds.
Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2012 08:53 AM (WnnBz)



Seconded. I move for passage by acclimation.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 08:55 AM (VtjlW)

229 Gnu, or mrsa wax loads

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2012 08:55 AM (WnnBz)

230 I'm convinced (and it shouldn't have been a surprise to me) that some of the a**holes are only working for themselves.
Ammo. "Good old tomatoes and home-made wine", and ammo.
Oh, yeah. And movies. http://preview.tinyurl.com/chc88x4
Have a good weekend!

Posted by: Thorvald at November 30, 2012 08:55 AM (1V6Pv)

231 Schrodinger's cat, I'm going to steal your "Here's the scenario..." paragraph and post it on FB. I was trying to explain the same shit yesterday to one of my brother's friends. Your version is snappier.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 30, 2012 08:56 AM (tkoGU)

232 223 Nighthawk,

Theeby allowing the media to blame the lack of unicorns on us giving the donks total control.

I have a better idea....wreck it and break it up.

Let the Blue devour their neighbors and not me.

Free Texas.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:56 AM (LRFds)

233
Our "economy" is a Pyramid Scheme. There is no "negotiation" currently taking place. There is NO "negotiation" taking place. They have to increase the debt by printing money to paythe loans. At some point the music is going to stop and only a handful will have chairs. It isn't a matter of whether YOU want to LIB or not. It doesn't matter what any GOP Congressman says or doesn't say. Sorry.

While we were working hard, paying our bills, paying our taxes and obeying the law both parties were busy drilling holes in the dam. The last four years they were being assisted by the FSA.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 30, 2012 08:57 AM (wmR6i)

234 I noticed an era that 2010 should be 2014.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:57 AM (YdQQY)

235 Can somebody please write this in 10 foot high letters across the top of the blog?

The free shit well is going to run dry because TFG is going to make it run dry.

R/R was the only real hope that we had. I think they had a pretty good shot at unleashing growth at a pace fast enough to kick the crisis down the road a long ways.

TFG is going to continue to smother the economy either because that is his goal or because he's stupid enough to think that all the shit he's doing that smothers the economy is going to improve things.

When that free shit well runs dry, the free shit army is going to go after somebody. The only way to keep them from going after the people I don't want to see burn is to set them on each other.

As SurferDoc said, the debate is not burn/not-burn. The only question left now is how it's going to burn.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 08:57 AM (V3kRK)

236 228 Alex The Chick,

I propose we moderate the bill to favor Bisexual Asians who love rockets.


Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:57 AM (LRFds)

237
Let the state
Disintegrate.

Let it burn.

Posted by: Ed Anger at November 30, 2012 08:57 AM (tOkJB)

238 damn error

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:58 AM (YdQQY)

239 "You are missing the point. How do you defeat, destroy, decimate, debilitate, decapitate the Free Shit Army whilst not chopping off your own head in the process?

Figure that one out and you will win a very big cookie."

Learn carpentry, metal working, blacksmithing, and other skills that can be done without a power grid.

Move to a defensible location with good water.

And just await the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.

J.J., you're a good guy. But you don't understand: it's going down. The sooner it goes down, the more likely we are to restore a modern, functioning society. The more we try to avoid it, the more resources we squander on the FSA that we would need in the interregnum, increasing the likelihood that the "interregnum" is permanent.

Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at November 30, 2012 08:59 AM (OY/SZ)

240 234 Vic,

Fruedian slip and I agree that SSDI is an issue but Vic the whole rotten corpse is a leech murdering us.

I meant what I wrote about R/R '12 being perhaps the only chance I had to free my son.

Free Shit Army voted no.

I vote "fuck them I will not chase the higher high anymore."

If we all crank down our standards of living we can smother free shit army.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:59 AM (LRFds)

241 we have a moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist disaster as much as possible ... by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck an To Hell With Them


Philosophically, I'm in a similar place. The Collapse will be hard on my family and loved ones and salt-of-the-earth neighbors, and I don't wish any harm on them. Seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile ... because if it prospers, you will too.


But practically, I'm really not sure whether or not it's better to hasten the Collapse. Since (by my reckoning) it is no longer avoidable - and, I would add, seems to be the goal of the Cloward-Piven crowd anyway - the choice seems to be like letting the gangrenous limb fester or amputate it asap. The long-term survival rates are better with the latter option.

Posted by: crisis du jour at November 30, 2012 08:59 AM (dTlz1)

242 "How many years of your remaining life do you want to go about supporting the FSA?"

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 08:48 AM (GQ8sn)

Oh yes, and while it all burns around you you are going to have backyard barbecues and movie nights and all sorts of fun stuff. Because it won't touch you and yours.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 30, 2012 08:59 AM (GsoHv)

243 "I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it."
This shouldn't stun you. Conservatives see what Republicans do not:the problem is the voters. It's not about protecting the electorate from the predations of the Democratic party. It's about letting the electorate feel the consequences of the choices they've made. Deferring tax increases on people who voted for all this "free shit" is insane.
I have no desire to shield the American people from the consequences of their decisions.

Posted by: Sam In VA at November 30, 2012 09:00 AM (rFiOs)

244 239 Cobalt Shiva,

Amen, I am buying 5-11 acres and learning reloading hard.

Plan to set up a side business in Bio-Diesel as soon as I get south so I can run light industry.

Fuck them I would rather have freedom than an I-Phone for all by public writ.

Let it burn, I have work to do.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:01 AM (LRFds)

245
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans cut back on spending last month and saw
no growth in their income, reflecting disruptions from Superstorm Sandy
that could hold back economic growth in the final months of the year.

The Commerce Department said Friday that
consumer spending dropped 0.2 percent in October. That's down from an
increase of 0.8 percent in September and the weakest showing since May.

The government said work interruptions caused by the storm reduced wages
and salaries by about $18 billion at an annual rate. The storm affected
24 states, with the most severe damage in New York and New Jersey.





It's all Bush's Sandy's fault!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 30, 2012 09:01 AM (1Jaio)

246 Maybe the Federal Republic of Texas and Friends won't have an entitlement problem. I'm hoping a cousin can get me in.

Posted by: DaveA at November 30, 2012 09:01 AM (Xefrb)

247 242 CBD,

Nope at best I will get to drink some sassafrass tea and play some Pnp RPG with my son waiting for the next day's work.

I'd rather do that than live near people who voted themselves 1/2 my wage.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:02 AM (LRFds)

248 246 Dave A,

Texas understands that workers are a natural resource.

Let the US have all the "fair."

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:02 AM (LRFds)

249 I have a better idea....wreck it and break it up.Let the Blue devour their neighbors and not me.Free Texas.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:56 AM (LRFds)


I can almost guarantee that"Blue"will ally with "Foreign" to get back "Red"...

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (FkKjr)

250 The problem in trying to make the FSA "feel the pain" is that they do not pay any GD taxes. That is why they are the FSA to begin with.


The only way to make the FSA feel the pain is to collapse the entire country and have the people who are paying for all the shit feel the pain as well.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (YdQQY)

251 219 "Fact is the "we have a moral obligation to allow Free Shit Army to
prevent economic growth and kill our freedom" ship has sailed and I am
happy I am no longer on that boat.

Fuck the left they fucked us."

Exactly right! Once we recognize that the ship has sailed there are a lot of things we can do to survive the shitstorm in relatively good shape and be prepared for what comes after that.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (6H6FZ)

252 Although its nice of the cop to buy the boots, why do I get the feeling that the bumb will be found dead, sans the new shiny boots. Yes, I'm a pessimist.

Posted by: Whatev at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (2t6Gz)

253 Im a Masshole-JP-in the-heart of injun territory! If there's ever a meet up -send 'um smoke signal

Posted by: art garfunkels ugly kid at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (ZRoGl)

254 I'm going to steal your "Here's the scenario..." paragraph

Sure, help yourself. The next step in the scenario of course, which you may not want to paste, is that the House gets overturned in 2014. Senate, House, and White House all run by the Democrats.

The first rule of punishment when dealing with children is don't punish the wrong person. People at the lowest rungs of the economic pecking order, who go off to work everyday when they could be sitting on their ass collecting, don't deserve a kick in the ass by letting the tax cuts expire.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (feFL6)

255 How do you defeat, destroy, decimate, debilitate, decapitate the Free
Shit Army whilst not chopping off your own head in the process?


Without getting banned, there are only few ways I can phrase my answer.

1. There is no way to defeat, destroy, decimate, debilitate, decapitate them short of (banned content).

2. "Let it Burn" and/or "Burn it Down" is the best way to stop them.

3. The sad fact is that there is no 100% foolproof way to insulate ourselves from the burn. Some of us will be caught in the fire. I see it this way: I think it is far more humane for only some of us to be burned rather than all of us burn in the end.

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 09:04 AM (GQ8sn)

256 223 Nighthawk,

Theeby allowing the media to blame the lack of unicorns on us giving the donks total control.

I have a better idea....wreck it and break it up.

Let the Blue devour their neighbors and not me.

Free Texas.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 08:56 AM (LRFds)
==============

That would be the "let the chips fall where they may" part. I'm not kidding myself that my way will bring about a result any different from that of the LIB-ers it's just that I don't want to be complicit in the destruction.

Like many here I once took an oath to "...preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic" and I really do not want to give in to those enemies now.

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2012 09:05 AM (RSqz2)

257 McConnell and other leaders in D.C. are trying to put the brakes on economy-killing "progressive" ideas . . .

Which is exactly what they have been trying to do for the last 25 years. And they have succeeded in almost making them work. They're reward for this is to be hated.

Quit being the Tax Collector for the Welfare State.

Quit polishing the turd.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 30, 2012 09:05 AM (QupBk)

258 249 Bevel,

There's an app for that. I'd rather have that moral clarity than continue to let the fuckers do it slowly. Get it over with one way or the other.

I'm done.


Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:06 AM (LRFds)

259 "I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it."

Be as stunned as you want. Nothing can be done. The GOP has lost and will lose more every year. It's over.

Posted by: Closing Time at November 30, 2012 09:06 AM (i+P3N)

260 he sad fact is that there is no 100% foolproof way to insulate ourselves from the burn. Some of us will be caught in the fire.


My understanding of LIB is let the country totally collapse into anarchy and revolution. It will not be 'some of us" it will be all of us. I would expect at the minimum 15% die off in the first 5 years.


That 15% of 350 million people and it will not be confined to the FSA.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:07 AM (YdQQY)

261 256 Nighthawk,

I took the same oath so did my wife.

We're kissing a corpse.

Peaches the CIA sexhound went native.

Our leadership pisses themselves blowjobbing the koran while Xianity is under assault globally.

No time to move on and exert my oath to saving as much of the founding as I can where I can.

Let the bodies hit the floor.

Free Texas and keep Locke alive.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:08 AM (LRFds)

262 Entitlement reform is the only way to make any real progress toward long-term fiscal balance, and it's quite likely already too late to avoid a severe economic event. But entitlement reform would be much more politically palatable if they were to eliminate waste and duplication and failure in other programs. Coburn had a list of programs totalling about $200B per year that should be completely eliminated. Do that now. Make it a necessary condition for raising the debt ceiling.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (nZvGM)

263 Oh yes, and while it all burns around you you are going to have backyard
barbecues and movie nights and all sorts of fun stuff. Because it won't
touch you and yours.


I have absolutely no illusions about what "Let it Burn" means. None.

I cannot justify helping prop up this leviathan with my hard work any longer. My vote no longer matters in the final tally, which means there is no realistic way for myself and others to correct the disaster of a course we're on. I'm prepared to accept my fate. It's either this or indentured servitude.

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (GQ8sn)

264 Like many here I once took an oath to "...preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic" and I really do not want to give in to those enemies now.

You know what's really funny as shit about that oath? Why is it "foreign and domestic" instead of "foreign or domestic?"

You want to know what's even funnier? There's one thing I can think of to plug into it that [BANNED CONTENT GOES HERE].

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (V3kRK)

265 >>I move for passage by acclimation.

Why does that sound naughty when you say it?

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (SUKHu)

266 Ben has dumped

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (YdQQY)

267 "I have no desire to shield the American people from the consequences of their decisions."

Is that you, Chief Justice?

Posted by: Closing Time at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (i+P3N)

268 Letting the tax cuts expire means the FSA gets to feel the pain of their choice that much sooner. Consequences only teach if they are delivered soon enough to associate the pain with the behavior.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (6H6FZ)

269 260 Vic,

Vic did you notice the tab yesterday?

The brit NHS that donks masturbate too says that kids up to about 5 are not really kids.

15% are gonna die regardless I want Locke, Smith and Burke to live and I KNOW the staus quo doesn't give a shit.

The nation is done I have less in common with FSA than I do with some Chinese.

Save what we can.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:10 AM (LRFds)

270 Oh they can "mention" it but it should not be part of what we are trying to negotiate now. It has nothing to do with the crap sandwich they are trying to eat now.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:55 AM (YdQQY)



Fair enough.

For the record, I completely disagree. You see, I've spent the last 30 years being told simultaneously that entitlements must be reformed and the longer we wait the worse it will be but that we cannot make entitlement reforms part of whatever is being negotiated now because that's not what got us in this mess. You will forgive me if I am utterly unpersuaded that there will ever be a time when Our Betters deem it appropriate to discuss. Putting it off to 2016 is not exactly going to make the needed reforms less painful.


I am in the camp of press the issue now. If we do not want it to burn, then entitlements must be addressed. The sooner the problem is addressed, the more pain that can be avoided. Now is exactly the time to bring this up.


The corollary to this is that if the Republicans do not want to press this now and continue on the path of now is not the time every single time there's any chance to bring it up, the let it burn. It's going to burn anyway, so get it over with now.


Of course I know this means I will burn too. Of course it does. I have yet to those in the anti-burn camp provide any meaningful response showing that the burnination is avoidable.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 09:10 AM (VtjlW)

271 The FSA may grow a little. But folks that are used to living a little better than the FSA will not be happy living the meager lifestyle that the FSA offers. People are losing there jobs already.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 30, 2012 09:10 AM (3Y7RV)

272 SSDI enrollees mushroomed after Clinton signed welfare reform. I was a CASA during that time, and almost all of the parents of the cases I had found physicians they were able to beat down to find some disorder to qualify them for SSDI. Crying uncontrollably, bad back, incontinence(haha), "bipolar" disorder, aka addiction, personality disorders. However, these same people could afford smokes, booze, PCP and weed. Good luck getting them off of disability.

Posted by: Museisluse at November 30, 2012 09:11 AM (SsWgR)

273 then favor them with jobs and guns. I'm nominating asian lesbians with webcams, any seconds.

I'd point out that they already have jobs and don't need guns because "Shoot him pweez". PreDenounced squeeky voice to make the joke work.


Posted by: DaveA at November 30, 2012 09:11 AM (Xefrb)

274 My understanding of LIB is let the country totally collapse into anarchy
and revolution. It will not be 'some of us" it will be all of us. I
would expect at the minimum 15% die off in the first 5 years.


That 15% of 350 million people and it will not be confined to the FSA.


What do you suggest we do? Go along with the FSA until we die of old age? I'm done with that. I don't see the FSA wising up and growing smaller over time, only larger.

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 09:12 AM (GQ8sn)

275 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 09:10 AM (VtjlW)


My position is you can't fight every battle in a war at the same time.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:13 AM (YdQQY)

276 I don't see the FSA wising up and growing smaller over time, only larger.

Especially since in this upside-down world, the ones *wising up* are the ones enlisting.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at November 30, 2012 09:13 AM (V3kRK)

277 What do you suggest we do? Go along with the FSA until we die of old age?


Like I said earlier, after Obama the FSA will not be turning out to vote so heavily unless they find another "magic negro" by 2016.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:14 AM (YdQQY)

278 My position is you can't fight every battle in a war at the same time.
------
Ridiculous

Posted by: German High Command at November 30, 2012 09:15 AM (eEfYn)

279 274 EC,

Exactly. Our generation dies off the founding dies with it.

"Bannable content goes here'

and that's why after ceding 44+ years of Bill Ayers' story time to the youth of America or about 1/5th our history we forgot that the founding was over the notion that you can't tax .5% of people's wages give or take without their having a voice.

We're now at trillions of dollars of debt with choice because we allowed the lazy to insulate themselves from pain.

let it burn

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:15 AM (LRFds)

280 256 Nighthawk,

I took the same oath so did my wife.

[...]

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:08 AM (LRFds)
===============

Then I'm in good company.

You fight your way, I'll fight mine.

What's important is that none of us give up.

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 30, 2012 09:16 AM (RSqz2)

281 "The rams I'll be working on are from BWR's but they load from the bottom."

When working near BWRs during a a refueling outage (turbine deck, etc.), wear natural fiber clothing ONLY. Anything containing polyester or other synthetic materials will likely earn you a ticket for a session beneath the world's largest vacuum cleaner ("Sir, please hold your arms straight out." "How long will this last?" "Until the green light comes on." WHOOOOOM).

Posted by: mrp at November 30, 2012 09:16 AM (HjPtV)

282 278 Vic,

Nah I think Ogabe uns again, Ogabe is Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton to the X power and goes around whipping them into a froth.

Vic the only correct solution to Obama's impact post office is found in the story of the Gracchi .

The Potomac is a river.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:17 AM (LRFds)

283 Letting the tax cuts expire means the FSA gets to
feel the pain of their choice that much sooner. Consequences only teach
if they are delivered soon enough to associate the pain with the
behavior.


Posted by: SurferDoc at November 30, 2012 09:09 AM (6H6FZ)


It won't hit the FSA. It will hit the middle class twits who voted for Barry because of liberal social issues. The womyn who voted for Barry because of binders and Sandy Fuck's birth control. The douches who voted for him, against their own economic best interests, due to utter stupidity. The 20 somethings who voted for him, because I guess it was still hip to do so, who have no prospect of getting a job for years to come. They'll take the hit and probably blame the Republicans for it.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 30, 2012 09:17 AM (1Jaio)

284 284 TQM,

Yup maybe.

Fuck them.

Their pussy is not more important than the economy and the damage the Obarka EPA does.

Grow the fuck up middle class.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:19 AM (LRFds)

285 It seems as of yesterday CA has now joined Powerball!

Yeah, more ways to throw away my money! But the dreams are worth it...

Posted by: Walkers! at November 30, 2012 09:19 AM (TYO2p)

286 Posted by: mrp at November 30, 2012 09:16 AM (HjPtV)



LOL, that is not just confined to BWRs. You should wear anything but cotton in any rad environment. Those synthetics will trap even naturally occurring gas from concrete walls

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:19 AM (YdQQY)

287 Somebody needs to do a post on what exactly the "Let It Burn" philosophy is. Is it letting us go over the fiscal cliff? Is it giving the Dems everything they want to theirs are the only fingerprints on the debt bomb? The one thing I know for sure is that no matter what happens, when the sh*t hits the fan, Republicans will be blamed.

Posted by: biancaneve at November 30, 2012 09:19 AM (6bYlh)

288 Like I said earlier, after Obama the FSA will not be turning out to vote
so heavily unless they find another "magic negro" by 2016.


Vic, I thought you were smarter that this. If the last 4 years have taught me anything, it's that the FSA will fall for democrat bullshit 100% of the time, even with the evidence right in front of their noses. If they find things not to their liking after 2016, it will mean that the nasty Repubs were the ones holding them all back from six figure salaries and 3 month vacations. They will be told that the dems could have given them all that...except for those fucking Republicans getting in the way!

Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 09:20 AM (GQ8sn)

289 My position is you can't fight every battle in a war at the same time.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:13 AM (YdQQY)



Again, fair enough, but it most certainly appears that this is a battle that Republicans (I'm talking elected officials, not you) never, ever, ever want to fight.


I'm going to do a twist on Insty's global warming thing - I'll believe that this is a crisis when those telling me it's a crisis act like it's a crisis. Except, in this case, there is actually a crisis, the math is real, this is not precisely an unknown problem and we are out of time to do something about it. There is a crisis but those who say there's a crisis refuse to act as if there's a crisis.


Either we are going to have a serious, adult conversation about the problems with entitlements or we aren't. It appears to me to be without question that our elected officials do not want to have that conversation and will not have that conversation. One of the few people that wants to have that conversation is Paul Ryan and the American electorate rejected him.

Since that conversation will not be had, ashes ashes we all fall down.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 09:21 AM (VtjlW)

290 Im a Masshole-JP-in the-heart of injun territory! If there's ever a meet up -send 'um smoke signal
Posted by: art garfunkels ugly kid at November 30, 2012 09:03 AM (ZRoGl)


Should have the meet-up at Doyle's, then.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 09:23 AM (zF6Iw)

291 Like I said earlier, after Obama the FSA will not be turning out to vote so heavily unless they find another "magic negro" by 2016.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 09:14 AM (YdQQY)


Anybody want to take my bet that the Prez or VP candidate in 2016 will be Chief Spreading Bull?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 30, 2012 09:26 AM (zF6Iw)

292 290 Alex The Chick,

Well said Alex.

When Ryan was picked it clicked and I went all in, and the GOP itself rejected the posit that my grandkids yet unborn should not be doomed so the "poor" who are able bodied can be propped.

I have no book with making good the promises that people who had 25% of their wealth potential stole from the feds were given BUT I have huge problems with people who can work deciding that Fibromyalgia means they can get paid to play video games all day.

America proved to me once and for all it is not a serious nation now if indeed it ever was in my lifetime.

I will not be the FSA's wage slave anymore than I would have wanted our nation to remain George III's....


Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:27 AM (LRFds)

293 292 Mary poppins,

I'm betting Core-ay Booker.

He gets the nod to run after the Senate it takes less than 2 years in that august body to be declared Jesus Christ returned.

Stir and repeat every 8 years 'til we are bankrupt.

Fuck this.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:28 AM (LRFds)

294
J.J. Sefton, thank you for the daily count down to the end of TFG.

I've been doing the same. Somehow it feels better knowing there is an end, if not in ready sight.

BTW, there is only about 124 billion seconds to go. See even that seems managable compared to the size of our debt and unfunded liabilities. It's only a tenth as big as our fixcal problem -wait, now I'm depressed.

If we pay down debt at$1.00/second for the next 400 years, we're all set. Not including interest of course.

Posted by: sophistahick at November 30, 2012 09:29 AM (UhXzR)

295 tenth=hundreth

Posted by: sophistahick at November 30, 2012 09:30 AM (UhXzR)

296 f'n zeros

Posted by: sophistahick at November 30, 2012 09:30 AM (UhXzR)

297 I have never been a fan of the flat tax, but I propose the following:

Repeal the income tax, at both federal and state levels. Then make a sales tax on both federal and state levels. Even make it tiered if you want to: say 25% for lower income, 30% for middle income, 50% for high income. It has to be significantly high enough that the "takers" suffer too.

Increasing the income tax doesn't affect people who don't actually HAVE incomes. And, I don't want to wait around until the Free Stuff train gets derailed....that could be too long a wait. But, when Mr. FoodStamp and Mrs. Obamaphone go out to buy their big screen tv and xbox and Dre Beats headphones, they will pay a premium and they will feel it.

I am more than willing to take up such a cross so that this recession reaches everyone in our country. The Gimme Gimme crowd needs to feel the pain of the recession, just as much as the rest of us do.

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 30, 2012 09:30 AM (E1Vkf)

298 Enjoy your train rides to the re-education camps, you right-wing terrorists. I look down this page, and mixed in with the racist dog-whistles, I see conspiracy to commit, conspiracy to commit, and conspiracy to commit. It's not "your" country any longer. It belongs to those you oppressed, stole from, discriminated against, and exploited. Time for you to live off the crumbs from the grown-ups' table the way women and minorities had to for all those decades.
Oh, wait, and you're the minority now too. Suck it, haters.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at November 30, 2012 09:30 AM (jCQ+I)

299 Mary, you have become too eloquent. That can't be you....

Posted by: sophistahick at November 30, 2012 09:32 AM (UhXzR)

300 299 Mary,

Mary darling as the NVA said in the year of the horse.....

"we send enough of them home giftwrapped they'll stop coming.

The trains will carry you to your wageslave hell then to the IPAB ran Soylent factory.

Fuck you.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 09:33 AM (LRFds)

301 Sometimes Mary is more truth than teh funny.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 30, 2012 09:33 AM (QupBk)

302
All the House needs to do is refuse to pass the CR and tell them to shut it down. But they piss in their pants every time the MFM looks at them cross-eyed. Which means the Republican side of the House is always covered in piss.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 07:39 AM (YdQQY)

In other words they have no power.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 09:33 AM (57VGh)

303 ATC- Bush tried and got killed on it. The R's take that as a warning.
Dems never do. They simple see it as pushing the Overton Window- See Healthcare, Clinton, Hillary

Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 30, 2012 09:34 AM (+VMZ0)

304 The way to make the libs 'own' this mess is to see that the GOP caves on NOTHING.
Posted by: In Exile at November 30, 2012 07:54 AM (Eqqye)

The GOP is a hopeless pile of junk.

It is beyond foolish to put any faith in it.

Get rid of it.

Take this whole rotten structure down.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 09:38 AM (57VGh)

305 In addition to the economic deficiencies with that argument, we have a moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist distaster as much as possible. Most people do face difficult decisions when the price of gas goes up. Most people do not buy fancy electronics on a whim. Many people have to worry about paying for their children's education and their spouse's health care and their retirement and their taxes.
And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 07:58 AM (NfIvb)

We have no such moral obligation.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 09:41 AM (57VGh)

306 Somebody needs to do a post on what exactly the "Let It Burn" philosophy
is. Is it letting us go over the fiscal cliff? Is it giving the Dems
everything they want to theirs are the only fingerprints on the debt
bomb? The one thing I know for sure is that no matter what happens, when
the sh*t hits the fan, Republicans will be blamed.

-----

Nope. My version is give Obama everything he wants. Name the legislation after him..... The Obama Fair Share Act.... I dont care.... Mitch and Boner gives speeches about how elections have consequences and that Obama deserves this. Make him own his policies. You and I and everyone here know his policies will crater spectacularly....

This is about changing paradigms.

If we go the route of half measures and kick the can down the road.... Its going to burn anyway.


Posted by: Post Tsarist Russian Expressive Dance Major at November 30, 2012 09:42 AM (nELVU)

307 damn you sock..... damn you to hell....

Posted by: fixerupper at November 30, 2012 09:43 AM (nELVU)

308 When it burns, I burn too. And so will many of my friends and family. It's going to burn no matter what.


I can't leave the Blue Hell Hole that I live in because I can't carry my family along. I'm fucked, they are fucked. The course is hyperinflation. That will be the road to ashes. A life time of savings gone. I'm old and sick and fucked. Math is a harsh mistress.

I'm left with only the bitter consolation that my smug and feckless neighbors will burn much sooner than I. And I will point and laugh and defend myself with deadly force if necessary. Me and mine are fucked. To quote St. Paul: That's just the fucking way it is.

Let. It. Fucking. Burn. Now.

Posted by: Insecto the Fucked at November 30, 2012 09:48 AM (Z5BDI)

309 You don't really believe there will be another election, do you?

Posted by: Barky Boo Boo Bait at November 30, 2012 09:50 AM (scLNg)

310 No. No x1000. You're proposing to screw everyone, not just Obama voters.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 08:30 AM (NfIvb)


Yes, exactly right.

Let's get rid of the fakery that says some are getting screwed and some are not.

Everyone gets screwed and screwed so hard the whole thing collapses.

If you are not willing to bring the whole thing down then there is something too precious to you to risk for liberty.

If you are expecting power to return to the GOP someday, you are likely to be disappointed.

If it does and you expect the GOP do what it has always failed to do, stop and reverse Socialism, you are a fucking idiot.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 09:51 AM (57VGh)

311
The GOP is sharing power; they will therefore share the blame.

Wait. We just had an election. The people spoke: they want more taxes, they want Obamacare. We need to give it to them.

In spades. If Clinton-era tax rates are good for the upper 2%, then surely they're good for all of us?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 30, 2012 09:55 AM (1hM1d)

312 Here's hoping this comment doesn't get snagged in the spam filters…

This society is going to collapse.  It's inevitable.  We must look past that catastrophe and prepare for the aftermath. I keep reading variations of this from commenters:

"If we only had party leaders who would stand on principle and do [insert strategy here], then we could fix this."

I have news for you. We don't have such leaders, we haven't had such leaders, and we won't have such leaders for the foreseeable future.  The national GOP is irredeemably feckless and corrupt.  Our pop culture is steeped in statism, our corrupt news media is the propaganda arm of the Dems, and the Dems themselves are running the Cloward-Piven Strategy toward its intended conclusion of a societal collapse.

Society is going to collapse.  Better to let it all burn now while just under 50% of Americans are still open to the principles of individual liberty and limited government.  If we foolishly delay the inevitable collapse, the ranks of believers in The Free Shit Fairy™ will continue to swell, and that will make the recovery more difficult.

Posted by: OhioCoastie at November 30, 2012 09:56 AM (iYJs3)

313 We will have to address SSDI first if smart. That is the biggest problem we have with SS now. I have seen article posing that 50% of SSDI payments are outright fraud or misdirected from the purpose of the program. We could do that as soon as we get some more Republicans elected. Possibly as early as 2010.


SS and Medicare changes will have to be phased in over a period of years. My solution for that would be that assuming we have a Party left in 2016 call for a program that broke down by ages to to completely phase both of them completely out.
Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2012 08:49 AM (YdQQY)

W tried that in 2005.

Here we are.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 09:56 AM (57VGh)

314 299 Mary,

Like you're not a hater? You invented snarling. I hope you like what you are going to get with Barky.

Posted by: Barky Boo Boo Bait at November 30, 2012 09:57 AM (scLNg)

315 Seconded. I move for passage by acclimation.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 30, 2012 08:55 AM (VtjlW)

Aye.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 09:59 AM (57VGh)

316 which included millions in tax hikes and millions in more stimulus spending
I think you meant billions not millions. The government doesn't use the term millions anymore.

Posted by: GreenEyeshade at November 30, 2012 10:01 AM (cf20q)

317 I see shitloads of whining about entitlements, but not alot of acknowledgement of bad monetary policy. Say what you will of spending, but the dildos conservatives support in the Capitol were the same deluded morns who said we would grow ourselves out of debt by lowering interest rates to zero, and now printing money, and giving Greenspan proverbial handjobs.

Not alot of bitching about banks going on in here, just alot of bitterness towards those not stupid enough to be played for moral suckers.

Posted by: blehzor at November 30, 2012 10:02 AM (s9K+V)

318 Regardless of what the Republicans do, they will take the blame for any and all negative outcomes. Stand on principle and go over the 'cliff'... shut down the government until a budget is passed ... vote 'present' on all the Democrats proposals ... vote with the Democrats and try to pin the results on them ... even if by some miracle they pass a bill with substantial cuts in spending and entitlements. It doesn't matter. The end result will be an electorate that blames the Republicans for whatever bad things happen, and they will lose seats in 2016.

We've passed the event horizon. This isn't a call for action (or inaction) that will result in the destruction of the country. This isn't a philosophy you choose to believe. This is a realization of a Truth. The Truth that no matter what we do, the destruction is coming. Fight, capitulate, withdraw....it doesn't matter. It will burn. Your actions can't stop it. You have no choice but to let it burn.

Posted by: Mob at November 30, 2012 10:05 AM (9DEGR)

319 You know who has all the power? Math. And Math's a stone cold bitch who is going to burn it all to the ground no matter what. The roof is on fire. Let the motherfucker burn.

AtC - I think I love you.

And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.

Gabe - they voted for Obama. They wanted this. They think we live in a Democracy where they get what they want since they won. Let them have it. Let them collapse the world economy and instigate WWIII.

No matter what happens, we're going to be blamed for anything bad, and they're going to get credit for anything good.

Character is what you do when you don't care who gets the blame.

So let it burn. Whether it's through forcing the shutdown, going over the cliff, or voting "present", the only way out is through.

Posted by: brian at November 30, 2012 10:09 AM (y05cf)

320 CBS spin on this: Repubs refuse to raise taxes on the rich. Obama offers a plan.

We have got to offer specific tax increases, to gain credibility. Why are we protecting a bunch of rich asshats that voted for Obama? Why aren't we taxing the hell out of Hollywood? Is it too much to ask to have some real leadership from the Repubs?

Posted by: notsothoreau at November 30, 2012 10:09 AM (uPhCY)

321 Here is something I would like SOMEONE to ask:

So, President Obama, if we raise taxes on those earning over $250,000, WHAT IS THE EXPECTED OUTCOME?

I cannot understand why no one is asking him this basic question.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 30, 2012 10:09 AM (GoIUi)

322 @322- Because they know the answer. And the answer is "it's going to do fuck-all".

Posted by: brian at November 30, 2012 10:13 AM (y05cf)

323
The real problem with the fiscal cliffissue is that the left isn't taking you seriously.
The question is, howdo youteach them to respect you? corollary: How do you earn the respect of the American people?
This question is one that you haven't considered seriouslyand on an ongoing basis.
Except for the 'let it burn' thing, over the last few weeks, Ace has been getting close to the answer. ...at least, one of the answers.
There is a case to be made for 'let it burn,' but allowing the Dems to do what they want, when they want, isn't really part of the answer for conservatives. Under the most probable 'let it burn' scenarios, I think that conservatives and Republicansget burned alongwith the Dems and liberals. 'Ashes, ashes, we all fall down...'
It's too late to stop the collapse that's coming - 'going over the cliff' as it's often referred to. The math just doesn't add up any other way. To pay off the officially acknowledged debt, alone, would take every pennyof our GDP for at least the next ten years.That's every penny that every American earns and every penny that government at all levels collects. The debtgets paid off in ten years, with every penny we earn, only if the government stops all spending right here, right now.
Paying off the 'unofficial' debt would take every penny every American earns for the nextone hundred years or more. That's not going to happen. So, it's all going to 'burn' anyway.
There's a better way, but contemporary 'conservatives', especially SoCons, won't like it - and in view of recent evidence, probably won't go along with it. All this scenario will do is to mitigate the damages (death, war, destruction and other mayhem). That's all it can do. Nothing can stop the collapse that's coming. Liberty and freedom get a break in this scenario, but it won't be the nation you presently know and understand.
You won't be telling people what to do in their own bedrooms, for one thing. (indiviudually and as a group, we won't have time for it.) The war on drugs ends, for another. DHS and the TSA go away. US military bases round the world all but disappear, for another, etc. etc. The Dems won't be telling yu that you can't have a hamburger, a big gulp or a cigarette, among other things. Welfare, Social Security and food stamps disappear, etc. etc.
Not happening. Right?
So...it's all gong to burn, anyway. It's just a matter of whether it's a controlled burn or not. The controlled 'let it burn' scenario is what I call the Sampson in the temple option. You could also call it 'The Valley Forge" option, if you meant to completely restore The Constituion as a result.
All you can do is to mitigate the damage and set things up to rebuild something better from the ashes.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 30, 2012 10:13 AM (WwR1j)

324 324 warren bonesteel,

yeah you know I think we covered the "vote pussy" position upthread...

what's coming has sweet fuck all to do with the imaginary theocracy you think we of any SoCon bent love and a lot to do with marxist wet dreams.

Gonna be a joy watching Luap Nor cult get the anarchy they want.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 30, 2012 10:24 AM (LRFds)

325 Miss Marple

That is what Obama campaigned on. His "balanced" approach to solve our economic problems. If he is allowed to go ahead and it fails, that is direct and unimpeachable evidence that his policies were shit.

If Republicans fight Obama, they will be the obstructionsits and they (we) will own the result and the blame for whatever goes wrong.

This is not giving up in the long run. This is strategery for mid-term elections and beyond. When enough low-income voters are inconvenienced in their daily lives because they can't get more Obamaphones or they see less money on their EBT card, maybe then they will learn a lesson. Soon enough, seniors will find Medicare doctors few and far between as they start declining to see Medicare patients.

When this administration's policies start hurting people in a real and tangible way, maybe they will start to understand that elections have consequences and maybe they better pay attention a little more next time.

If not, then we are doomed to be the minority party for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: Marmo at November 30, 2012 10:31 AM (QW+AD)

326 Happy Friday, Mr. Malor.

Totally OT, but missed reading a top headline post from you yesterday. Good to see you're back. ^_^

mac :]

Posted by: macbrooks at November 30, 2012 10:32 AM (Kcjfs)

327 "I'm still stunned by that. I understand being tired and a bit low after the election loss. I don't understand acceding to evil because of it."

The word "conservative" has become a social appellation like "Goth" or "deadhead". In Latin it would be "the people who call themselves conservatives". It doesn't matter what you stand for, as long as you stand with "conservatives" you are a "conservative".

When you make a list of Reagan's policies, and Clinton's policies, the modern Republican Party is largely to the left of Clinton. Even on abortion, which a Republican House votes to fund with tax dollars. Yet they call themselves "conservative".

Posted by: Chris Balsz at November 30, 2012 10:44 AM (3GtyG)

328 The bottom line, of course, is that we're in a complete reversal of
our usual roles right now. McConnell and other leaders in D.C. are
trying to put the brakes on economy-killing "progressive" ideas . . .
while conservative commentators are ready to give in and give socialism a
try.



It's fantasy. It's fun to imagine the possibilities for how everything will backfire on the leftists when they get what they've sowed.

But the key thing is that we aren't actually running anything. If you actually put a random sample of us commentators into the House/Senate, we would be paying attention to the consequences outside what might give us satisfaction. (Cue media: Extreeeeeeeeme conservatives cause everything wrong with the world and kick puppy)

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 30, 2012 10:45 AM (xHaTb)

329 327: Telling voters the Democrats are really right, and its just a question of what party gets to manage liberalism, is giving the store to the Democrats.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at November 30, 2012 10:47 AM (3GtyG)

330 The martial metaphors don't work here. We can 'fight' them by obstructing, and we can shut them down. BUT WE DON'T WIN WITH THE JUDGES. The electorate determines the winner, and crushing your enemy on the legislative field does nothing when the judges don't understand or appreciate your deftness. We shut them down, we 'win', but when the economy continues to stagnate the judges look at that as OUR FAULT for fighting. LIB is jujitsu aimed at the judges. We stand down and let the asshats take us in the ditch. Then let the driver explain that to the judges when it is obvious to even the Honey Boo Boo types that we have nothing to do with it. I don't see any other way out.

Victory is determined by the brain dead, and as sad as that is, we need to recognize this.

Posted by: Todd W at November 30, 2012 10:47 AM (vVmp0)

331 It's fantasy. It's fun to imagine the possibilities for how everything will backfire on the leftists when they get what they've sowed.

But the key thing is that we aren't actually running anything. If you actually put a random sample of us commentators into the House/Senate, we would be paying attention to the consequences outside what might give us satisfaction. (Cue media: Extreeeeeeeeme conservatives cause everything wrong with the world and kick puppy)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at November 30, 2012 10:45 AM (xHaTb)

Keep fucking that chicken.

Posted by: eman at November 30, 2012 10:47 AM (57VGh)

332
Anyone who believes there is a 'fiscal cliff' is an idiot. This same fantasy was passed around 4 years ago, but calledTARP and Stimulus. STOP CALLING IS A FISCAL CLIFF. This is a media concocted lib scheme.The best thing the GOP can do is ignore them all and do nothing. Let the tax cuts expire and let spending cuts start.

At some point we need to call their bluff and get these clowns under control.

If you want to help the economy buy guns, ammo, and precious metals.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at November 30, 2012 10:56 AM (pDRpv)

333 Look, the American experiment is over. This WAS NOT just another election, we crossed the Rubicon here. A majority voted for free shit, and with what is a completely left-state-run media -- I mean, it's breathtaking the censorship going on -- we have no way to even explain what is going to the politically unengaged. No matter WHAT the hapless chumps in the GOP do, conservative principles will be blamed for the meltdown.

I was listening to some of the Senate floor action yesterday (don't ask why) and Sanders from Vermont gets up, and say Social Security will be JUST FINE if we tax some of these wealthy Wall Street guys. The frightening thing is, Sanders BELIEVES THIS -- this isn't something he's saying for political gain, he is so clueless, so math impaired, he actually thinks this will work. THAT is the government now in charge.

To the Let It Burn crowd: my heart is with you and it is now also unavoidable, but go into this knowing it won't be conservatives who pick up the pieces. After a meltdown, when people get tired of the chaos, the most common pattern is for a dictator to rise, because at that point people want order more than anything else.

Time to get ready for the new dark ages and figure out where to build our monasteries to transmit our principles down through time.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at November 30, 2012 11:03 AM (DLUX7)

334 Take the goddamn page from the Commie playbook and sell the fucking Dems the rope by which they hang themselves. Give Obama his g-d tax increases.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 30, 2012 11:03 AM (dZ756)

335 Most of us in the Let It Burn Caucus© are playing the long game, not having a temper tantrum.  The disaster is unavoidable.  We can't change it, so we must use it to our advantage.

The MFM and the Dems will always blame conservatives, and that's also unavoidable.  We can't change it, so we must use it to our advantage. 

What matters most now is the aftermath, and that depends on which lesson our electorate of dunces learns.  The only way that the idiots who believe in the Free Shit Fairy™ will realize they're wrong is for them to discover without question that statism fails.  By voting "present" and publicly showing that the statists have the reins, we conservatives can ensure that there's a chance -- however small -- that our dumbass countrymen will make the connection.  To wit:

STATISM = PAIN FOR ME

So, while there are still enough conservatives left to have a shot at rebuilding society after the inevitable collapse, it's time for a tactical retreat. If we wait longer, we won't have any shot at rebuilding.

Let it burn.

Posted by: OhioCoastie at November 30, 2012 11:13 AM (9GP0i)

336 In addition to the economic deficiencies with that argument, we have a moral obligation to mitigate the Leftist distaster as much as possible. ...
And by agreeing to Let It Burn, they are saying that these people are Shit Outta Luck and To Hell With Them.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 30, 2012 07:58 AM (NfIvb)

We are under no obligation to perpetuate the Leftist disaster. At this point there is no mitigation, just delaying the inevitable, with the cost of delay being the loss of the opportunity for people to learn and turn from their foolishness.

Do not go gently into that good night.

Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 11:41 AM (qs9G3)

337 This is the mentality we are dealing with here:

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/steinsvold.htm

Have the brain bleach standing by. The stupid is fucking epic with this dipshit.

Posted by: Boomer Redneque knows Mohammad was a goat-fucking kiddie-raper at November 30, 2012 12:07 PM (eQnzo)

338
274 My understanding of LIB is let the country totally collapse into anarchy
and revolution. It will not be 'some of us" it will be all of us. I
would expect at the minimum 15% die off in the first 5 years.


That 15% of 350 million people and it will not be confined to the FSA.

What do you suggest we do? Go along with the FSA until we die of old age? I'm done with that. I don't see the FSA wising up and growing smaller over time, only larger.
Posted by: EC at November 30, 2012 09:12 AM (GQ8sn)


But since Free Shit is what sustains the FSA, by definition, the FSA will be a large portion of the 15%. I'm thinking 12% of the 15%. I base this upon the fact that the FSA will have been cared for by the bankrupt government, while we have some of the remnants of civil society to turn to - family, church, solvent local government. Plus, as Hank Williams said, "a country boy can survive."

I like those odds for liberty.

Posted by: Minuteman at November 30, 2012 12:11 PM (qs9G3)

339 "The bottom line, of course, is that we're in a complete reversal of our
usual roles right now. McConnell and other leaders in D.C. are trying to
put the brakes on economy-killing "progressive" ideas . . . while
conservative commentators are ready to give in and give socialism a try."
------
The only reason "conservative commentators are ready to give in" is that they have no faith that the GOP will stick to principle. They have always caved, and the suspenseful build-up to the caving has led to us having clear fingerprints on fucking things up further (cf. automatic sequestration).


Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 30, 2012 12:18 PM (+WhyQ)

340 The burning is past tense. It occurred earlier this month. The Republic died.in the fire.






Posted by: Al Derecho at November 30, 2012 03:33 PM (frxVF)

341 I understand your feeling, but we are already f***ing there Gabe. That's what this election was to me, the end of my denial that America still had a majority that believed in Liberty and capitalism, and reject statism. But the reality is we are a socialist nation, and we have been for many years. The majority of voting Americans (and certainly future americans) now favor government solutions to fix problems, even when they can't define what those solutions might be. The majority is now in favor of legal plunder. And look at the demographic trends (ala Mark Steyn). Things aren't going to be more traditional America in a generation or two. At best it will be closer to Latin America. And we think that the current Republicans can alter that course? With what power could anyone change the demographic inevitability?

The sad truth is that while I agree we can't just give up, there is little we can do to stop the inevitable suffering that voters have been unknowingly pleading for.

Posted by: Adc at November 30, 2012 03:47 PM (QRtGH)

342 "To the Let It Burn crowd: my heart is with you and it is now also unavoidable, but go into this knowing it won't be conservatives who pick up the pieces."

It will be if we are the ones left alive.

One of the main objectives of "letting it burn" is to make sure that as many Leftists as possible are part of any massive die-off. For example, there should not be a single member of SEIU left. We know where Leftists congregate; raze them to the ground and sow it with salt.

Posted by: SDN at November 30, 2012 06:43 PM (YTfNk)

343 I've never wanted anything so much. I long to feel her cold steel warm to my loving embrace.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/28/af2011-now-thats-a-double-tap/

Posted by: CozMark at November 30, 2012 07:33 PM (6QN3y)






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