Erskine Bowles: We're Going to Go Over the Fiscal Cliff, and It Will Be "Horrible"

He thinks there's only a one in three chance of averting it.

Obama and the Democrats seem to be playing for the long game, unlike most other politicians and movements. They seem willing to plunge the nation into short-term recession (more misery) in exchange for winning on large structural issues that will become part of the nation's almost-unchangeable fiscal DNA for a decade or two.

I suppose there's something laudable in that -- or, let me put it like this, we on the right might think it laudable if our own politicians were pursuing a similar strategy.

The Democrats are doing this. But the media won't say so. This is a tradeoff, a sacrifice of short-term political standing in exchange for long-term structural political victory. Or it should be a tradeoff, but it's nothing of the sort, because the media won't state that the Democrats are doing this. Instead, the media pushes for Democratic wins in both short-term and long-term. In the short term, they just blame the Democrats' choice to go over the fiscal cliff on Republicans.

I'm conflicted on all of this. I'd prefer a lot of things -- not having a Depression, for example, and not creating a socialist mega-state.

But I feel like, given the media's intention to not only hand the Democrats the long-term win but also blame the short-term consequences of that on the wrong party, we conservatives have little to gain here, whatever we do. So I'm feeling amenable with the Let It Burn people -- if the Democrats are determined to do this, and we cannot stop it politically, then let the Democrats at least have full ownership of the mayhem.

I'm also having trouble with the idea of pressuring Boehner and McConnell not to cave -- because I know they will cave.

According to Politico, Boehner is willing to sign off on as much as $1.2 trillion in tax hikes over the next ten years in exchange for as little as $400 billion in Medicare cuts that do not even begin to take effect until 2013. That’s right: Boehner is about to sign off on a deal of $3 dollars in tax hikes now in exchange for $1 dollar in spending cuts 10 years from now. There is no way House Republicans will sacrifice their political careers for such a “grand bargain.”

Enough will. The Democrats only need 25 or so "brave Republicans willing to compromise (and be branded heroes by the media)" to do this.

As I know we're going to cave -- we always do -- I feel a futility in arguing against the inevitable.

I'm also wondering why we shouldn't just give the Democrats what they want and Let It Burn.

Posted by: Ace at 03:14 PM



Comments

1 Give them what they want but state often and loudly why it is a bad idea and what it is going to do to the ecomony. Make the Dems and Obama own it.

Posted by: AdamPM at November 29, 2012 03:17 PM (x61Z7)

2 I give us ... one chance in three.

Posted by: Marko Ramius at November 29, 2012 03:17 PM (QGyiB)

3 Come on in, the water's fine.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 29, 2012 03:17 PM (7vSU0)

4
Bring it.

Over the cliff, dashed on the rocks below, and burn baby burn.

Let it burn. Let it burn. Let it burn. I don't care anymore.

FBHO and everyone else involved with this circus.

Posted by: Jaws at November 29, 2012 03:17 PM (4I3Uo)

5 Yep, let it burn.

Rush had the same idea.

http://nation.foxnews.com/

Posted by: beach at November 29, 2012 03:18 PM (LpQbZ)

6 Kick

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (cgxNI)

7 I'm also wondering why we shouldn't just give the Democrats what they want and Let It Burn.

If "a few" Republicans cave, they won't get re-elected (justifiably) by their base.
If no Republicans cave, they'll get blamed, and won't get re-elected by the public in general.

If they ALL cave, the Democrats own it all, and can't blame Republicans.
Let it burn.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (Qxe/p)

8 the

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (cgxNI)

9 can

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (cgxNI)

10 Oh FFS, the drama drama drama never lets up here. There is no "cliff." Nothing bad would happen immediately if this deadline were crossed. There isn't some point of no return that will be passed. You're buying spin from your leaders.

And the let it burn stuff is as silly as "I'm totally gonna move to Canada, man!"

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (t1NLo)

11 down

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (cgxNI)

12 Let it burn?

Please...like we can stop it.

Posted by: MrShad at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (Xqfwb)

13 Ace, I'd rather we just obstruct and not do anything until they present cuts. We won't have the balls to do this, but I feel like if we have a majority in the House and we're gonna get blamed for the disaster anyway we might as well. If we Let it Burn we're just going to get blamed for any bad consequences, so I'm not sure how that helps.

Posted by: LB at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (YE14Z)

14 wheeeeeeeee!!!!!!

Posted by: phoenixgirl at November 29, 2012 03:20 PM (GVxQo)

15 The New Constitution Party. We could make our symbol a phoenix. Screw the GOP.

Posted by: joncelli at November 29, 2012 03:20 PM (RD7QR)

16 Hang on. The commie demorats aren't looking to destroy America because of "long term political structural advantage", they are looking to destroy America because they are looking to destroy America.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 29, 2012 03:20 PM (7OSWQ)

17 And no the Republicans should NOT say how terrible the sequestration is.

They should say that Congress not being responsible and passing budgets that aren't borrowing 40 cents of every dollar is terrible. That they have passed responsible budgets, and the Senate won't even hear them. The Senate won't even vote on OBAMA's budget because apparently it is too radical, or not radical enough, or something.

That the current deal is what they came up with and if it isn't great, it is the best we can hope for with the irresponsible Dems in the Senate and White House. That they will not oppose any proposal that the Dems will propose and vote for that meets the requirement of the law that made the sequester.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (7vSU0)

18 Nothing truly bad would happen for months, and in the meantime the sausage will be made behind the scenes just like it always is. The GOP is on the weaker end politically, and you guys are just running around claiming the sky is falling.

I was right about the election, I'm right about this.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (t1NLo)

19

Let the sky falllll

When it crumblezzz

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (kdS6q)

20 This is going to be "Budge Cuts on the Orient Express". Things will be cut and everybody's hands are going to be on the knife. Spin how they want they are wishing.* A big crash is going to wipe out all of them, and they know it.

*Then again, I am a moron, soI could be wrong.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - sunny day... at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (hLRSq)

21 I'm going to keep asking this, is there a single person on the planet who knows how sequestration works? Seriously. One person.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (VtjlW)

22 There's no stopping what's coming, and there probably is no stopping the FSA and Media slaves from embracing more hair'o the dawg and more socialism...

What must be done?

We must fight to maintain at least survival level standards of living and then we must make the fuckers pay.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (LRFds)

23 I'm kind of in your camp on this ace. The people have spoken and they voted for Taxing the rich, unsustainable spending, and over hauling 1/8th of the economy to give everyone free health care. I'm pretty sure this equals a complete clusterfuck but who knows maybe it will work out this time. I doubt it but it looks like we'll find out.

Posted by: Shtetl G at November 29, 2012 03:22 PM (L2eC5)

24
Burn, let it!

Posted by: Yoda at November 29, 2012 03:22 PM (ggRof)

25 Speak up, Tea Part republicans in office! What should be cut?

Your time is at hand!

Cowards, and typical politicians one and all.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:22 PM (t1NLo)

26 You're buying spin from your leaders.

Erskine Bowles is a Democrat, numbskull.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 29, 2012 03:22 PM (QGyiB)

27 The people have spoken. The takers have won. Let them keep taking until the money runs out, which will happen fairly quickly.

Until people understand that the money has run out and there is no more to tap into, we cannot make a change in this country via elections.

It will burn, and there will be blood. There will be death.

Posted by: cranky-d at November 29, 2012 03:23 PM (HDtn6)

28 Both sides are so freaking incompetent that even if they both DIDN'T want to cliff-dive, it'll still happen because they aren't able to handle it anyway.

Posted by: Roy at November 29, 2012 03:23 PM (VndSC)

29 21
I'm going to keep asking this, is there a single person on the planet
who knows how sequestration works? Seriously. One person.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (VtjlW)

There's some geek at a think tank that wrote it originally. He/she may or may not understand it. Nobody else does.

Posted by: joncelli at November 29, 2012 03:23 PM (RD7QR)

30 Look, Dems are afraid of sequestration, too. But they are okay with it if they can blame it on the Republicans. So give it back to them steaming on a silver platter.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 29, 2012 03:23 PM (7vSU0)

31 Obama and the Democrats seem to be playing for the long game, unlike
most other politicians and movements. They seem willing to plunge the
nation into short-term recession (more misery) in exchange for winning
on large structural issues that will become part of the nation's
almost-unchangeable fiscal DNA for a decade or two.



We have never recovered from the recession of late 2008. What he is willing to do is prolong it some more and make it worse. He IS FDR-II except ten times worse.


And what do the Republicans need to do. Tell him to stick his tax hikes up his ass. The House needs to send him a budget with 2008 numbers and tell him to take it or leave it. The Repukes are scared the MFM will blame them for a government shutdown. Well guess what, the MFM are going to blame them anyway regardless of happens.

Posted by: Vic at November 29, 2012 03:23 PM (YdQQY)

32 It will burn, and there will be blood. There will be death.
Posted by: cranky-d


Those with the most guns and ammo win. Remember that.

Posted by: Roy at November 29, 2012 03:24 PM (VndSC)

33 Olaf has no clue. Like most Americans.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 29, 2012 03:24 PM (49lPc)

34 Who the fuck cares? I'm going to Hawaii. Everything that happens while I'm gone is the Republicans fault. You're welcome.

Posted by: Barry Dicklips at November 29, 2012 03:24 PM (wAQA5)

35 It's the "according to Politico" line that is giving me a little bit of trouble.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 29, 2012 03:24 PM (+lsX1)

36 Heh. "Both sides!"

Obama ran on letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the money you make over $250,000. He won. By 4 points. It's an enormously popular policy. This isn't socialism anymore than Bush was Hitler.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:24 PM (t1NLo)

37 The only problem I have with the Let it Burn strategy is that while it may avert the short-term blame on Republicans, the next best target is Republican ideas.

So Republicans all vote with Democrats for whatever Democrats want. It leads to misery. The media can't blame Republicans so the next best target is to blame capitalism, lack of regulation, lack of oversight, etc.

Given the historical perspective, this will probably work too. The Let it Burn strategy has the potential to lead to absolute socialism.



Posted by: hisfrogness at November 29, 2012 03:24 PM (6orKY)

38 F*ck the phoenix. I think our new symbol should be a flaming zebra. Because, cool.

On second thought, the other side already has a flaming zebra.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 29, 2012 03:25 PM (7OSWQ)

39 I suggest the torch.

Posted by: Gen. Wm. T. Sherman at November 29, 2012 03:25 PM (wIgpo)

40 So *why* aren't the media fucks being lined up against the wall yet?

Posted by: GMan at November 29, 2012 03:25 PM (sxq57)

41 #LetItBurn? screw that:

make it burn... pack it full of thermite, cover it up in phosphorus, then soak it down with JP4.

then a 5 round burst of 4-1 API tracer is all it takes.

we don't need no water, let the motherfucker burn.

come the collapse and the wreckage, the strong will survive and the free lunch crowd will starve, after they feed on the weak.

give them exactly what they want and let it kill them.

Posted by: redc1c4 at November 29, 2012 03:25 PM (8MasJ)

42
The Republicans in the House need to make noises about impeachment (just noises, and then call it off, "to give the Administartion one last chance"), lay out a big bold plan, and then some months or a year later, say, "See? We told you so!" in a nice kind of way.


Then seriously lay out the reasons for impeachment. And not just the Scoamf-in-Chief. Biden, Holder, Geitner (if they're still in office, I mean), the works.


They didn't make the case forcefully enough during the campaign, but maybe we have an oppurtunity for some education here. But we gotta plan ahead.


No, I'm not holding my breath, and yes, I have a rich fantasy life.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at November 29, 2012 03:26 PM (zgHLA)

43 One sign of Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

You trusted the GOP... the same 'small government' folks who, when they had both houses and the President, still grew government....

The same party that brought you DHS... and the EPA... and Fannie and Freddie on Steroids (Bush in 92...) ... and the War on Drugs (which turned into a War on Rights)... and a couple of 10 year long wars...

I lost faith in the GOP long ago.... even though I still vote for them as the Lesser Evil... but why should this whole situation be suprising?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 29, 2012 03:26 PM (lZBBB)

44 Why the desire to destroy America? Isn't that deeply unpatriotic?

You lost an election. Get a grip, world ain't gonna end.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:26 PM (t1NLo)

45 The more the repubs have input into anything the more they own. Let BO do whatever he wants and let him own it. It will be dificult for even the MFM to spin that one. Don't vote for it - abstain.

Posted by: Vizzy at November 29, 2012 03:26 PM (H0lcY)

46 32 Roy,

eh sorta....if you already have a survival post then yes....

elseways there's a point of diminishing returns WRT "most guns and ammo."

you need "enough"

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:27 PM (LRFds)

47

It's 1933 all over again.

New New Deal, baby!

Posted by: imp at November 29, 2012 03:27 PM (UaxA0)

48 Look, Erskine Bowles is afraid of it. Jim Moran is afraid of it. The President averred that it wouldn't happen.

The Dems are scared shitless of the sequestration.

So give it to them.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 29, 2012 03:27 PM (7vSU0)

49 Vote "present" so you have a quorum, let the dems pass whatever they want so they'll own itand then let it burn.

Posted by: AnabolicState at November 29, 2012 03:27 PM (nGsOy)

50 >>I'm also having trouble with the idea of pressuring Boehner and McConnell not to cave

I'm going to write my rep and tell him the same thing as always. #1 Don't cave #2 Fuck you I'm donating to your primary challenger no matter what.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (epxV4)

51 Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:24 PM (t1NLo)

No, he ran on a 'balanced approach'.... CUTS and Tax increase on the Rich...

Debate he said 3 dollars of CUTS for every dollar of increase...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (lZBBB)

52

lie back and think about vaseline.

Posted by: imp at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (UaxA0)

53 OT question re media bias: why does Forbes Inc., which is owned/controlled by Steve Forbes, employ so many leftist journalists?

Posted by: slatz at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (mE0Rl)

54 44 Olaf,

You backed Giggles the SCOAMF fuck you get used to it.

Remember when extrajudicial murder was a reason to put Bush in the hague?

Fuck you asshole.

There is no nation you guys quit in '01 or '68.

You want to outlaw our natural resources being used for energy and allowing business to compete globally not a fucking problem.

Let us leave.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (LRFds)

55 I would like to have seen Montana.

Posted by: Vasiliy Borodin at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (XkQL7)

56 Obamacare and its many many problems need to be hung on the collective neck of the Democrats too. Especially as the crappy stuff starts to begin.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (zgHLA)

57 Napalm the bitch... they own, they can watch and see it burn....

Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at November 29, 2012 03:28 PM (Jls4P)

58 Re: Beck, God, Obama, and urine

The left's failure to see the double standard is perfectly explainable, if you understand the Left:

To them, Obama is real, whereas Christ is something made-up.

Easy-peezy.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 29, 2012 03:29 PM (zpqa2)

59 Can we please get the banhammer on t1NLo? He was a bore before the election, and he's still a bore now.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:29 PM (4df7R)

60 Ha ha. Yeah, the dems are scared, just like they were so scared during the last election that "david axelrod sent trolls to ace of spades pirate blog to sap the spirit of the gop."

The democrats aren't afraid. For once.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:29 PM (t1NLo)

61 in exchange for as little as $400 billion in Medicare cuts that do not
even begin to take effect until 2013. That’s right: Boehner is about to
sign off on a deal of $3 dollars in tax hikes now in exchange for $1
dollar in spending cuts 10 years from now
.

Huh? Was that just a typo or am I missing something?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 29, 2012 03:29 PM (SY2Kh)

62 National debt, Olaf. How much is yours?

Posted by: fluffy at November 29, 2012 03:29 PM (z9HTb)

63 So Politico says Boner is going to sell us out again for a bag of beans. Just like last time and just as I predicted weeks ago.



Remember the last deal he made with Obama and the Dems? All those budget cuts should be starting just about now. Where are they?


What started as a measly $100M cut wound up being a $30M cut in the rate of increase. Boner is a lying shit weasel and he isn't much better than the damn commies.

Posted by: Vic at November 29, 2012 03:29 PM (YdQQY)

64
This afternoon, President Obama and Governor Romney visited for an hour over lunch in the Private Dining Room adjacent to the Oval Office.

Governor Romney congratulated the President for the success of his campaign and wished him well over the coming four years. The focus of their discussion was on America’s leadership in the world and the importance of maintaining that leadership position in the future. They pledged to stay in touch, particularly if opportunities to work together on shared interests arise in the future.

Their lunch menu included white turkey chili and Southwestern grilled chicken salad.

WhiteHouse.gov

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (kdS6q)

65 Burn baby burn
dipsh*t inferno

Posted by: Hard Right at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (uhftQ)

66 The MSM has denutted the GOP. We cannot win a debate, we don't have a voice, we are Obama's whipping boy.

Any talk of strategy is worthless. It doesn't matter what we do.

We can't change the rules or direct the debate to help us.

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (3zQJl)

67 America RIP
1776 - circa 2014

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (SO2Q8)

68 I'm also wondering why we shouldn't just give the Democrats what they want and Let It Burn.

Yep, and like the prof at instapundit keeps saying, push for high taxes on reliable liberal constituencies like hollywood while we're at it, and in the meantime protect your own money, win/win.

Posted by: booger at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (HI6wa)

69 60 Olaf,

then what are you angry at us for asshammer?

You want it let's get it the fuck done.

Over the cliff pederast.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (LRFds)

70 first

Posted by: Hamilton Burger at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (kyFvp)

71 Oh please. I'm not trolling. I'm offering up better responses than most that I get from you guys. Mostly all I hear is silly impotent insults.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (t1NLo)

72
Huh? Was that just a typo or am I missing something?

It's confusing because it's shitty prose. The key word is "begin" and the 'end', you're supposed to infer, is ten years later, or 2023.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (jUytm)

73 "According to Politico, Boehner is willing to sign off on as much as $1.2
trillion in tax hikes over the next ten years in exchange for as little
as $400 billion in Medicare cuts that do not even begin to take effect
until 2013. That’s right: Boehner is about to sign off on a deal of $3
dollars in tax hikes now in exchange for $1 dollar in spending cuts 10
years from now."


I'm not so good at math, but 2013 isn't 10 years from now.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (Gkhxf)

74 Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 29, 2012 03:29 PM (SY2Kh)

Where were you this last year? This deal is a couple of orders of magnitude better than the last debt ceiling deal.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (epxV4)

75 LiFB

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (evdj2)

76 Oh please. I'm not trolling. I'm offering up better responses than most that I get from you guys. Mostly all I hear is silly impotent insults.
Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (t1NLo)


Well what do you expect? You're a silly impotent troll. We save the GOOD insults for the good ones.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (4df7R)

77 "We're not coming before you to say we have a definitive solution to our
long-term problem. What we do know is we don't like yours."
-TurboTax Tim

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (YjDyJ)

78 It's an enormously popular policy.

And it won't do fuck-all to address the deficit and Barry's out-of-control spending, shit-for-brains.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (QGyiB)

79 I am not angry at you. You guys are the ones acting angry.

I'm just commenting here like everyone else.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (t1NLo)

80 We should just let it burn. Its going to burn anyway. We will be told to compromise to wait until the next election, to wait until times are more favorable. It is all a bill of goods. The liberals finally have a president who was willing to govern from his ideology and to take the political fallout that came with it. Obama pushed through Obamacare, a liberal dream. In the process, the had a huge defeat. But that was just a small price to pay to get government healthcare through. Obama put ideology above all else and won. He used his power base when he had it to push things through. No sunsetting, like Bush did.

The GOP would never take these kind of risks. They would never risk small losses for the larger conservative gain. Reid, Pelosi and Obama were willing to risk it all.

Let it burn. I'm open to simply going over the fiscal cliff, or to simply passing tax increases on millionares (cough, I mean couples making over $250,000). I'd rather go over the fiscal cliff and rasie taxes on everyone and get some spending cuts. But I'm not sure I really care. Obama has no intention of cutting spending. We know that. The people don't want it anyway. The people want to tax the rich. Let's just tax them.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (gmeXX)

81 socialist mega-state.

wooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

*thumpa thumpa thumpa*

wooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: The Full Marxist at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (CxJM2)

82 Barack Obama is really a Republican!

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (/YJYi)

83 Defensive Olaf is defensive.

Posted by: Les Nesman, winner of last yeat's Buckeye News award at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (xfWVe)

84 Mostly all I hear is silly impotent insults.


That's big talk from someone who keeps ducking my question.


What is your share of the national debt, Olaf?

Posted by: fluffy at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (z9HTb)

85 Let It Burn for the same reasons that we should have let the banking sector and automotive industries Burn.

When it's over, entrepreneurial Americans will occupy the vacuum with new ideas and companies, and they will very likely be better.

Posted by: MadisonConservative at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (Y/HG5)

86 I'm just commenting here like everyone else.

*sigh* The favorite refrain of the Troll Chorale.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (4df7R)

87
In other words, supposedly Boehner will agree to $400B in cuts to Medicare in the 10yr period of 2013-2022 in exchange for...yadda yadda yadda

Posted by: soothsayer at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (jUytm)

88 Before let it burn we should try shut it down.

Posted by: Vic at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (YdQQY)

89 I am not angry at you. You guys are the ones acting angry.

Oh goody, a passive-aggressive troll...

Posted by: Insomniac at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (DrWcr)

90


You wonder where your tax dollars are going? TFG on a $4M Hawaii vaca? Pfft....That's nada.

Why not stay at the Mardan Palace while attending the HopeFor Conference taking place at the Mardan Palace in Turkey?

http://www.hopeforturkey.org/index-en/Index

While you are there, treat yourself to the Oriental Steam Bath, Hamam, Snow Paradise, or Thalasso Therapy at their Mardan Spa.

If you happen to bring your kids along, they can try the Teen Spa.

And, for you men, how about the Man Space By Comfort Zone for all your beauty needs.

But, for the ultimate indulgence, try the Executive VIP Spa: A cascading waterfall stops at the swipe of a card to allow VIP's to get into their own spa...

http://www.mardanpalace.com.tr/

I won't even mention the exquisite rooms and fine dining.

Ahhh, tax funded international conferences.



Posted by: beach at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (LpQbZ)

91 The Repukes are scared the MFM will blame them for a government shutdown.

Nah. Don't be so sure about this "scared" stuff. Since 2009, it's become abundantly clear that DC is just low-rent, insult-comic dinner theater starring a bunch of disease-ridden, crab-infested whores playing dress-up with different letters after their names, not to mention active genital pustules. They all think they're better than us and none of them want to let their slimy, cum-crusted fingers slip off their you-and-me funded chuck wagon.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (7OSWQ)

92
Can we please get the banhammer on t1NLo?
Posted by: MWR




There's always the "Ignore users on AoSHQ 1" greasemonkey script.


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (kdS6q)

93 The sooner it burns, the sooner we can rebuild.

Posted by: Hamilton Burger at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (kyFvp)

94 Hey Vic seriously....

yes it is all Boner's fault....all of it and none of it is the South Carolina delegation's fault.

Fuck it over the cliff I'm done talking on it.

No GOPer can stave off the crisis because there are plenty of GOP FreeShit Army members on their slice of the pie.

If I can be told as a military family member I'm a leech plnety of other GOP can hear it too.

I do not care anymore.

Over the cliff now and blame who you will...I blame the mirror.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (LRFds)

95 Masturbating to my HOPE posters relieves my anger.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (/YJYi)

96 Hey, fuckhead.

Optimistic projection of Barry's tax hike on the rich: $82 billion in revenue per year.

Dickhole Barry's permanent deficits - $1,200 billion per year.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (QGyiB)

97 If they ALL cave, the Democrats own it all, and can't blame Republicans.
Let it burn.
Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (Qxe/p)


I guess my version of Let It Burn is different from yours. I want the Republicans to refuse to make any concessions and vote against all proposed tax increases. Full obstruction.

As Marc Thiesson put it the American people have voted for big government, now let them actually pay for it. No more Republicans being more fiscally 'responsible' and shielding the country from the consequences of their choices.

We're going to be demonized and blamed either way so we might as well stand on principle. If the GOP actively votes *for* Obama's tax increases then why even bother having an opposition party. It's a much easier rebuttal to point to clean hands and party line votes than to try to explain some abstract point about the GOP votes actually meaning the opposite or something.

Posted by: Mætenloch at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (pAlYe)

98 Ryan/romney's vague, unspecified budget cutting campaign lost.

The deficit doesn't matter that much right now. Again, you can believe what you want like you did until a couple hours after sundown on election night. No stopping you.

I'm just saying the sky is not falling, and none of you guys are really going to go Galt.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (t1NLo)

99 Breaking:

Zombie Reagan was approached during GOP primaries and offered fast-track nomination.

Turned. It. Down.

MiFB

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (zpqa2)

100
We can give Obama what he SAYS he wants but still deny him what he REALLY wants, which is a huge split in the Republican Party and shitloads of primaries in 2014.

It's become glaringly obvious that most of the people in the top 2% are now voting for Democrats. So raise their taxes already. Fuck 'em in Northern Virginia and Saddle River and Shaker Heights. Don't stop at the Clinton rates, either, go for it all and jack that top rate up to 45%. Let's see how the Hollywood and Silicon Valleyassholes like paying 60% of their income in state and local taxes. It's super easy to exempt small business income from this rate, and I would actually LOWER the rate for that to 25%.

Then we have to convince the Club for Growth shitheads to STFU for 2 years and not penalize anyone who votes for this bill.

Since this is the ONLY tax increase Obama has asked for, the House Republicans next year should start passing appropriations bills with 10% cuts in them, across the board. All of them. No more new taxes.

Posted by: rockmom at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (qe2/V)

101 The liberals finally have a president who was willing to govern from his ideology and to take the political fallout that came with it.

Except they never even had to worry about fallout. The MFM has been in the Marxist bag since Dubya, Term One. obama's ascendancy to the Halls of Asgard was assured.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (4df7R)

102 93 HB,

Indeed.

Step one is the dissolution of the Federal Government.

I trust Giggles and Pelosi and Reid and Schumer with my freedom and economic position in the wake of their bonfire of the vanities like I trust Manson for a Scout outing.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (LRFds)

103 There's always the "Ignore users on AoSHQ 1" greasemonkey script.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 29, 2012 03:33 PM (kdS6q)


Yeah, but I can't use it on my browser at work, so instead I have to suffer through the idiots.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (4df7R)

104 Our representatives don't care about us.

They have their money, their retirement, there benefits......

We're fucked. They'll be just fine. They're the elite class. We're the piss bucket.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 03:35 PM (UK9cE)

105 I hear it's a dry heat...

so...

Let It Burn!

Posted by: VA Gator at November 29, 2012 03:35 PM (ZZiTD)

106

I'm also wondering why we shouldn't just give the Democrats what they want and Let It Burn.

Posted by: Ace at 03:14 PM





Welcome to the team, sir. It's miserable, but it's where we're at.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal, MiFB advocate at November 29, 2012 03:35 PM (b8JJF)

107 49 AnabolicState is right, if we're going to let them have what they want and reap the consequences, we need to vote "present." If we vote for the Dems' redonkulous bills, they'll claim they have "bipartisan support" and therefore bipartisan blame when it all goes south. If we vote against it, they'll call us "obstructionists" and blame us anyway when it all goes south. If we merely vote "present," we do not obstruct their self-destructive agenda, but neither do we acquiesce to it. It's ALL theirs, front to back, top to bottom.

If we're going to let it burn, this is the way to do it.

Posted by: John S. at November 29, 2012 03:35 PM (fQjba)

108 71
Oh please. I'm not trolling. I'm offering up better responses than most that I get from you guys.


Nah, you're just saying the same tired shit every troll who comes here says.

Posted by: booger at November 29, 2012 03:35 PM (HI6wa)

109 I am sympathetic with the LiB people (as in same-feeling), but A) The left won't own this like they never own anything else, and B) You can't control the burn, you can't control who gains from it, except that it won't be you.

The final meaning that eludes so many about LiB is that it's about realizing you have no control and trying to find a way to live with that.

Also, ignore the ignorant troll (your useless PSA for the day). They don't get it either.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 03:35 PM (bxiXv)

110 I have more sense than a Republican senator!!!...Yaaaaaaaayyyyyy!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Corky the Retard at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (2jh8d)

111 Posted by: soothsayer at November 29, 2012 03:32 PM (jUytm)

Wait... so Obamacare took 750 b from Medicare.... now this another 400 b from Medicare...

Uh.... just how do States then pay for the people who will be forced onto Medicare by obamacare?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (lZBBB)

112
the whole "over ten years" thing is so very absurd, anyway

we're supposed to believe that the federal govt knows exactly what'll outlay for a behemoth program over ten years?

over ten years and five different Congresses and maybe two or three administrations?



Posted by: soothsayer at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (jUytm)

113
>>>Obama ran on letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the money you make over $250,000. He won.

Totally wrong, douchetool. He won because he convinced fools that rasing taxes on 1% would solve our budget problems. Since it won't come anywhere close, time to make him eat it.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (r5w1L)

114 Olaf. Get fucked. Then, after you clean off the pineapple, tell the 26 million unemployed, with the millions more to come, that they are overreacting.

And when they show up at your door to take your last can of cream of mushroom soup, I hope they poach you in it before they eat you.

There is no moral case that can be made to take money from one person to give to another, not by government or any man, woman or child.

Money earned is from time invested and skill invested. It represents a valuation of a specific finite time on earth. It is therefore precious, and you have absolutely no problem with confiscating that money at gunpoint so the government can waste it.

You're a fucking ghoul.

Posted by: grognard at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (NS2Mo)

115
So *why* aren't the media fucks being lined up against the wall yet?

Not familiar with the term "useful idiots"?

Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (aA2hG)

116 Keeps me warm.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (7vSU0)

117 I guess the hope is that in the wake of whatever calamities monstrously loom, once they're done looming and get calamitizing, people will, like, get it together and be cool and shit.

That has never happened. There's no Let It Burn, then do other stuff. There are only Get Burnt, Watch It Burn Forever, and Burn Some (People) Yourself Because Fuck It.

The bright side, to me, is that the world, civilization as we understand it, actually *ended* decades ago, and we just looked away--and just looking away *kind of worked*, for what on the individual-mortal-human scale is a really long time. So there's an impressive will in there, in us, somewhere.

But it's...not really accessible.

Posted by: oblig. at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (cePv8)

118 ~ tap tap tap tap tap ~

... so Hadji said to the Debbie Wasserman Schultz, what sort of shampoo are you having? It smells the same that Hadji's mother used on the favored goats and the Debb... wait, this microphone is on? It is?

Hello ... ooo ... ooo ...ooo ...

Yes. and so.

Hello, it is I, Hadji, the comic from Muslim. Somebody please tell the manager, ace, that Hadji will need to be paid in gold for the next performance. Or three thai lady-boys. Or both.

Anyway, Hadji is here to bring what is called the funny, and chew dried figs.

And Hadji is all out of dried figs.

What is the difference between John Boehner and an Oompa-Loompa?

About a foot.

Thank you thank you thank you.

Hadji thanks you. Remember that your waitresses, while whores, are ... whores. But tip them anyway, inshallah.

-

Posted by: Hadji the Muslim Comic at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (RuUvx)

119 The sky isn't falling. 10.5% unemployment, trillion dollar deficits and soaring debt are the new normal baby.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (/YJYi)

120 Okay -- I'm going to go home now and drink myself to sleep.

Peace out maroons.

Posted by: eleven at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (KXm42)

121 The deficit doesn't matter that much right now.


That hole below the waterline can wait.

Posted by: Captain Edward Smith at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (z9HTb)

122 My simple proposal.

GOP raises taxes on rich, Dems cut the Department of Education.

I would call that a victory. My guessisthat cutting the DOE would result in very little savings. Regardless if we could somehow get rid of it, that would be a win.

When the Dems say they can'tcut education, then move on and pick a new department. Let'sjust go down the alphabet soup. Offer tax the rich for Planned Parenthood even. That willbe rejected. Then offer it for PBS/NPR. That will be rejected. At leastmake some small showing that the Dems will not cut anything.

Then we go over the cliff. If we can't spin tax cuts for the rich in exchange for trivial cuts to PBS, then the GOP isn't worth anything as a party. If we can cut one thing, maybe it is a start. And I mean complete defunding.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (gmeXX)

123 remember the good ole days when, after things got too bad in the mother country, you could just sail off for a new world where all you had to do was slay the local savages and freedom was yours.

If only there was some part of the globe sparsely inhabited by murderous savages that we could displace...

Posted by: Myles Standish at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (SO2Q8)

124 Uh.... just how do States then pay for the people who will be forced onto Medicare by obamacare?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (lZBBB)


Have you ever heard of the Liverpool Pathway?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (4df7R)

125
"And the let it burn stuff is as silly as "I'm totally gonna move to Canada, man!"

I really shouldn't bother to warn you, Douchenozzle, but...

Prepare your anus, Olaf.

Reality is packing heavy and he's all out of lube.

Posted by: Jaws at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (4I3Uo)

126
Uh.... just how do States then pay for the people who will be forced onto Medicare by obamacare?

Who knows. But I know who will be blamed.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (jUytm)

127 The MFM has been in the Marxist bag since Dubya, Term One.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (4df7R)


Hello, New Duranty Times, anyone? It's been much, much, much, MUCH longer than that.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (bxiXv)

128 the Dems biggest fear is a government shutdown and the fact that life would go on, and go on more cheaply.

Posted by: PR at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (KHo8t)

129
Um...FYI:

Posted by: Jon at August 28, 2012 06:27 PM (t1NLo)

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:31 PM (t1NLo)

Posted by: wheatie at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (CM59X)

130 Agree, let them burn. The rest of us should stock up on food, heating sources, gasoline, meds, water, guns and ammo.

Posted by: wyntre at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (MrQiL)

131 The gop is in a bad position politically. Not one of the cowards will offer up a "commonsense" cut to entitlements.

Where did the vision go? Where are the standards? The little tri-corner hats and plastic Chinese made flags?

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:38 PM (t1NLo)

132 If only there was some part of the globe sparsely inhabited by murderous savages that we could displace...
Posted by: Myles Standish at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (SO2Q

Detroit?

Posted by: Insomniac at November 29, 2012 03:38 PM (DrWcr)

133 If they ALL cave, the Democrats own it all, and can't blame Republicans.Let it burn.
Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at November 29, 2012 03:19 PM (Qxe/p)

If all Republicans cave, dems won't own it; at every turn, they'll point out that the republicans voted for it, too.

Here's the MSM guide on how to handle this:
1. If Republicans don't cave,blame them.
2. If Republicans do cave,blame them.




Posted by: LASue at November 29, 2012 03:38 PM (pWeX5)

134 Burn them all, let the weak die and the strong survive.

Posted by: Fersboo at November 29, 2012 03:38 PM (URjrq)

135 Just out of curiosity, Why does it seem every year we're faced with doom, pulling our hair out as we see ourselves floating clunkily towards the drain. re budget and Obama is always taking off to have fun.

Posted by: willow at November 29, 2012 03:38 PM (hX8cq)

136 Now Obama, he's offered up detailed plans. Just don't ask me what they are.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:38 PM (/YJYi)

137 hands alex her tea.

Posted by: willow at November 29, 2012 03:39 PM (hX8cq)

138 The sooner it burns, the sooner we can rebuild.
---
and the burning will only stimulate the economy.

Posted by: Paul Krugman at November 29, 2012 03:39 PM (SO2Q8)

139 109 Mero,


Run Red allows enough like minded people to gather to control their little corner of paradise.

Hoe Laf lied his ass off and the left undermined our nation at war to hypocritically let Libya murder a US ambassador then lie on it.

They ran as 'responsible fiscal guardians who would cotnrol Bush's out of control spending" then ran it up six fold...

they wanted power and lied and obfuscated to get it for the last time.

The nation is done.

I am to the point I refuse to be their brother and I sure as fuck won't be their subject.

Let it burn.

Choose with your feet.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:39 PM (LRFds)

140
I'm also wondering why we shouldn't just give the Democrats what they want and Let It Burn.

DON'T give them what they want - but let the sequestration kick in. That's enough BURN for me.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at November 29, 2012 03:40 PM (IH2b5)

141 Compromises in the 19th century nearly destroyed this country. It did destroy the Whig party. From that the GOP was born. History doesn't always repeat itself, but cycles look the same.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:40 PM (gmeXX)

142 135 Willow,

because Hoe Laf either gets that Ogabe hates America and is happily killing her or is an even bigger fucktard than he seems.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:40 PM (LRFds)

143 I'm going to keep asking this, is there a single
person on the planet who knows how sequestration works? Seriously.
One person.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 29, 2012 03:21 PM (VtjlW)

Sequestration is utterly meaningless. They will claim to cut $50 billion from Defense and again from whatever potpouri the dems are allegedly cutting, and forecast that cut over ten years to be a half a trillion dollars. In truth, they will spend whatever they want on each in 2014, because a) they can and b) it's not like the congress budgets anything any more.
*Note that "they can" is somewhat subject to change/collapse

Posted by: Methos at November 29, 2012 03:40 PM (hO9ad)

144 sooo after the collapse, do we end up with get a chavez type or stalin type?

Posted by: willow at November 29, 2012 03:40 PM (hX8cq)

145 The deficit doesn't matter that much right now.

Ah, the clarion call of the fuckwit.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (QGyiB)

146 "That’s right: Boehner is about to sign off on a deal of $3 dollars in
tax hikes now in exchange for $1 dollar in spending cuts 10 years from
now."

Professional con men know that the world is full of marks. But most of the marks out there are small scores. Enough to pay the rent. There are only a few _really really good_, big-score marks. Con men pray to find one.

Obama's prayers paid off in Boehner, biggest mark ever seen.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (ymG7s)

147
We have never recovered from the recession of late 2008. What he is willing to do is prolong it some more and make it worse. He IS FDR-II except ten times worse.


Posted by: Vic at November 29, 2012 03:23 PM (YdQQY)

Vic- I've been thinking about how some say Choomboy will be in the same position to benefit from the chaos he creates like FDR did, but I think what you express about the greater magnitude here reveals how this will be different this time.

FDR started up Social Security with lower expectations for a good return. Now SS is bankrupt.

The tax code was structured differently.

Regulation was not as robust so as to strangle enterprise, public and private.

The dollar was not the reserve currency.

A more homogenous population believed FDR was attempting to solve the structural problems.

There was more margin for flexibility in civil society to address problems.

Turn these around and one can see that Obama's direction leads to doom for the objective of a prosperous America. That's the bad news.

The good news is that Obama's direction leads to doom for his objectives as well.

Posted by: Book of Kurtz at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (qs9G3)

148 I emailed my senator and Boehner two weeks ago and told them to give Obama what he asks for. This is a no-win situation for Republicans, as Ace pointed out recently. I'll be emailing them more.

Give people the full Obama like they wanted and see how it goes. If the economy gets better, then our side was wrong. If it gets worse, then Obama owns it.

Posted by: Marmo at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (QW+AD)

149 Trolls here sure use the word 'silly' a lot, I've noticed. Bless their hearts.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (zpqa2)

150 Hello, New Duranty Times, anyone? It's been much, much, much, MUCH longer than that.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 03:37 PM (bxiXv)


Oh, I know that. I should have been more clear. The MFM has been brazenly, unapologetically, and without even a hint of embarrassment in the Marxist bag since Dubya, Term One. Prior to that they at least PRETENDED to have a little objectivity. Not anymore.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (4df7R)

151
-

Posted by: Hadji the Muslim Comic at November 29, 2012 03:36 PM (RuUvx)


You forgot to recommend that folks try the halal veal. o.0

Posted by: Kinley Ardal, MiFB advocate at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (b8JJF)

152 "Let it burn" is a misnomer.

It's going to burn regardless, the only open question is whether they can plausibly frame the GOP for arson.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (mg08E)

153 Olaf, we're pissed because you and your "we're lazy and demand to be paid for being alive" ilk are succeeding in destroying the greatest thing this world has ever seen.

Get used to it. We're ALWAYS going to blame you and think you're a fucktard. No point in arguing.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (UK9cE)

154 Welcome to the ranks of the Unserious People Who Don't Understand Politics*.



*also known as realists

Posted by: George Orwell what knows 47% got a fever and Uncle Sugar is the only cure at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (f6hd5)

155 Weren't the Dems supposed to take $700 billion out of Medicare already? So is this $400 billion in addition to that, or just a "restructuring" of the numbers?

In other words, this sounds more like a $300 billion dollar INCREASE in money being shoveled into the healthcare steam engine.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (TOk1P)

156 If deficits don't matter, why raise taxes on the rich?

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (QGyiB)

157 Heisman Watch 2012

I am officially on team Teo, and the parallels in the whole situation are just uncanny. (Btw no offense intended to Texas people, it's just for funsies)

Johnny Manziel is new, very little experience to be thrust into this high honor (cough cough, Barack Obama) His handlers kept him away from the media all season. He has a little bit of a murky, sordid past. But, he is charismatic and polished and well groomed. Plus, he is a man of the people!

Manti Teo, a Morman, is squeaky clean by comparison. His faith is a huge component of his life. He has a great family and is a genuinely good man. He is very intelligent and articulate, but is sometimes a little awkward when speaking in front of people (ya see where I'm going with this?) He's not flashy, but he has had a solid, even if a little boring, career. But, he plays for a hated team, the GOP or 1%ers of college football if you will. He has a whole stigma to overcome, much like Romney did.

Now, Collin Klein, he's your Gary Johnson. Nothing wrong with him. He would certainly be a fine choice, but it still remains that a vote for Collin Klein is basically throwing away your vote.

Like I said, it's kind of scary uncanny, isn't it?

Seriously though, Teo said this, and it chilled me to the bone: "The best leaders are the best servants." It applies in all walks of life, but it is definitely something I think could be applied to the state of our nation's government and this presidential administration in general. Terrible leader, worse servant.

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (E1Vkf)

158

> 7
If no Republicans cave, they'll get blamed, and won't get re-elected by the public in general.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn)


But the house isn't re-elected by the public in general. House GOPers were elected IN AN OBAMA YEAR in their own districts. They're safe no matter what the opinion in the rest of the country is.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (IH2b5)

159 Assuming your idea that there is a Cliff that will be Fallen from, what is the approximate time frame you expect the USA to be burning in? 2 years? 5? More?

Really, think this through. The USA will carry on. You lost an election, it's not the end of the united states.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (t1NLo)

160 Why the desire to destroy America? Isn't that deeply unpatriotic?

You lost an election. Get a grip, world ain't gonna end.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:26 PM (t1NLo)


O Rly?

Posted by: Ancient Mayans at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (XvHmy)

161 I'm beginning to think that the idea of automatic spending each year, rather than having to vote on each thing each year was not perfectly well thought-out.
Shouldn't it be easier to prevent spending than to permit it?

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at November 29, 2012 03:43 PM (SO2Q8)

162 It's going to burn regardless

Correct. It will burn, and no one can stop it. Even if Republicans get their way. There is not enough money on the planet to feed the beast.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows 47% got a fever and Uncle Sugar is the only cure at November 29, 2012 03:43 PM (f6hd5)

163 Hang on. The commie demorats aren't looking to destroy America because of "long term political structural advantage", they are looking to destroy America because they are looking to destroy America.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 29, 2012 03:20 PM (7OSWQ)


--------------------------------------------


THIS!! x1000. The sooner we wake up to this, the sooner we can prepare for it.

Posted by: Soona at November 29, 2012 03:44 PM (oy/E2)

164 Bring on the sequestration.

Let all Bush cuts expire.

Let everybody feel it.

They already get enough of our money and don't need any more.

Let it burn.

Posted by: Shingle at November 29, 2012 03:44 PM (BTwYJ)

165 So Politico says Boner is going to sell us out again for a bag of beans. Just like last time and just as I predicted weeks ago.

So we're taking Politico's word as gospel now?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 29, 2012 03:44 PM (SY2Kh)

166 If deficits don't matter, why raise taxes on the rich?


Worth repeating.

Posted by: fluffy at November 29, 2012 03:44 PM (z9HTb)

167 > This is a tradeoff, a sacrifice of short-term political standing in exchange for long-term structural political victory<

How-so?

Democrats will lose both credibility and standing. Eventually Obama's own words won't comport with the reality of economic misery.

People will blame Obama. He's the President Tax the Rich. That fallacy won't last long after sequestration occurs.

I obviously don't buy that people will blame Republicans.

By the midterms people will demand changes. Not just political, but fiscal. That will put pressure on Republicans. If they have both the House and Senate- sure Obama can veto. But his legacy will now suffer- not that I am sure that he cares, but I suspect he might. Especially if there is widespread misery. That kills the Obama myth and makes people question everything they thought he was.

So, while painful I believe sequestration is the only way to change the status quo.

Posted by: marcus at November 29, 2012 03:45 PM (GGCsk)

168 Regardless of what happens, the GOP is going to get blamed.

The only question is, which poison do they pick?

Posted by: The Political Hat at November 29, 2012 03:45 PM (XvHmy)

169
@156 If deficits don't matter, why raise taxes on the rich?

"Fairness". Whatever that means.

It seems to be all the rage with economic retards with cover their neighbors' ...everything. Fucking theives.

Posted by: Jaws at November 29, 2012 03:45 PM (4I3Uo)

170 Olaf, if you have the steel in your spine to look at the issue, what is your share of the national debt?

Posted by: fluffy at November 29, 2012 03:45 PM (z9HTb)

171 We should let the automatic sequester kick in, along with the tax increases.
Across the board tax increases are the only tax increases that have any chance of increasing revenue, and they are more equitable than increases- by whatever name they are called- that affect only current tax payers.
Across the board revenue reduction is the only way to meaningfully reduce expenditures. Republicans will be blamed for both, and for any economicslowdown,but they wouldbe blamed forthe economic slowdown that results from raising taxes (closing loopholes, eliminating deductions- whatever) on those earnng over $250thousand, on the theory that they didn't raise taxes enough, or that they cut spending too much etc.
The country has endured long periods of stagnant growth, and can do so again. A solution in which everyone participates is the most fair. Shared pain may provide a basis for reforming the tax code, and reforming the size of government expediture later.When the tax code is reformed- everyone should be a payer in order to focus everyone on the cost of government programs.

Posted by: guy falle at November 29, 2012 03:45 PM (lB/5N)

172
Dildo #2 sounds worried.

I think many on the Left are perplexed and concerned at our post-election reaction. Because if we don't play their silly little games anymore, they'll be all alone out there holding the bag.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 29, 2012 03:46 PM (jUytm)

173 Soon all will be made clear.

Very, very soon.

Posted by: | "A is A" | at November 29, 2012 03:46 PM (RuUvx)

174 Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (t1NLo)

in all seriousness, we've heard all your bullshit before and regardless of your delusions you really are just one more attention whoring troll, so go ahead and fuck right off m'kay? Thanks bunches.

Posted by: booger at November 29, 2012 03:46 PM (HI6wa)

175 Run Red allows enough like minded people to gather to control their little corner of paradise.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 03:39 PM (LRFds)


I totally get where you're coming from.

But the idea that you can paint a line around a corner and the bad guys won't go there... well, let's just say if that ever happened, it was coincidence.

They are insatiably hungry, and they are out of food.

The funny thing is, like much political satire, the "social message" of the Zombie Horde is *exactly* backwards - the original anti-consumer-society message was sloppy and lazy, the horde is the all-consuming left.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 03:46 PM (bxiXv)

176 Remember Ace's improving oneself threads?

Ignoring trolls is a virtue. It's easy if you try.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 29, 2012 03:46 PM (JEpGb)

177 So we're taking Politico's word as gospel now?


Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 29, 2012 03:44 PM (SY2Kh)

no, but what has been the experience re Boehner, McConnell and budgets every year?

Posted by: willow at November 29, 2012 03:46 PM (hX8cq)

178 "Let it burn" is a misnomer.

Agreed. MAKE it burn. Faster.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (zpqa2)

179 >>> If deficits don't matter, why raise taxes on the rich?

MOAR FAIR

Posted by: 2 x 4 at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (Fm9UD)

180 So we're taking Politico's word as gospel now?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 29, 2012 03:44 PM (SY2Kh)


So you are saying Boehner is a good negotiator and won't sell us out.


BWAHAHAHAH!

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (7vSU0)

181 But the house isn't re-elected by the public in general. House GOPers were elected IN AN OBAMA YEAR in their own districts. They're safe no matter what the opinion in the rest of the country is.
-----

This should give GOP house members some backbone. But it won't. They don't seem to understand that they will be blamed no matter what. Nor can they really do anything. Obama will never offer any compromise that helps in any way. So why help him. Obama is not going to get stronger. This is his high water mark. Make him take the deal he took a year ago. Let's go over the fiscal cliff. We know Obama and the media will blame the GOP, but it will be hard to keep that up when you have been president for 6 years. I'm ready to jump.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (gmeXX)

182 I'm just saying the sky is not falling, and none of you guys are really going to go Galt.
Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (t1NLo)


LOL, THIS is how stupid you truly are.

I already went Galt. And, no, not one penny of my assets will go to the US, even tho I am an American citizen. Not one cent to taxes. Not one cent to the government.

Figure it out, if you are so smart. The smart folks will figure it out. You'll be left holding the bag.

Was that a brain I heard that just exploded? I KNOW you cannot figure this out.

Posted by: beach at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (LpQbZ)

183 your idea that there is a Cliff that will be Fallen from

Are you really pretending the entire Democrat Media complex, and Democratic politicians, aren't using the term "fiscal cliff"?

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (QGyiB)

184 All we need is ONE mole Republican who initially stands with the compromisers, and then later comes out and claims that all the Republicans who voted with the Democrats were:

a) bribed, or
b) coerced, or
c) decided to "Let it Burn" and voted for something they KNEW would destroy the economy because it was proposed by Obama.


Posted by: Felt Wrapper at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (ecmD4)

185 Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 29, 2012 03:47 PM (zpqa2)

Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 29, 2012 03:48 PM (lZBBB)

186
Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (t1NLo)

You won motherfucker. You won. Congratulations. Yet here you are telling us not to be of weak heart, why it's just an election afterall you big silly. Right? You shit covered fucksticks burned the life boats and steered the USS America towards the rocks and laughed. Well, we're all chained together on the railing now. When we hit the rocks I want you to be just as cool as you are now. When you feel the impact and realize what you've done, I will be easy to spot. I'll be the guy chained next to you laughing. We all float down here!

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 29, 2012 03:48 PM (wmR6i)

187 My $0.02 - let it burn. A Pheonix doesn't rise from fields aplenty.

Posted by: blogRot at November 29, 2012 03:48 PM (chysP)

188 Really, think this through. The USA will carry on. You lost an election, it's not the end of the united states.
Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (t1NLo)


You're right. The united states has been dead ever since mouthbreathers like yourself became the majority. You ask when we expect the flames to start?

"Slave is an Ephebian word. In Om we have no word for slave," said Vorbis.

"So I understand," said the Tyrant. "I imagine that fish have no word for water."



Burn, baby, burn.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:48 PM (4df7R)

189
"Why the desire to destroy America? Isn't that deeply unpatriotic?

You lost an election. Get a grip, world ain't gonna end."

Awwwwwwwww. That's cute.

He thinks it can't happen here...not to US!

Posted by: Jaws at November 29, 2012 03:48 PM (4I3Uo)

190

Most of the idiots out there who voted for Barky...don't even realize that they benefited from the 'Bush Tax Cuts'.
They've been told that those were "tax cuts for the rich".
And they believed it.

So I am hoping that the R's don't cave, and let all those Bush Tax Cuts expire.

It's the quickest way for all those idiot Barky-voters to feel the pain.

Posted by: wheatie at November 29, 2012 03:48 PM (CM59X)

191 Fuck it all. Let it burn.

Posted by: Ernie McCracken at November 29, 2012 03:49 PM (z5Hqw)

192 I think I'll start making moonshine.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 03:49 PM (UK9cE)

193 Prior to that they at least PRETENDED to have a little objectivity. Not anymore.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:41 PM (4df7R)


They still pretend that (at least the actual CBS/ABC/CNN "mainstream," and major magazines and papers), the claim is just so incredible you don't even register it seriously anymore.

But Crowley walked back her apology and claims she was objective, CBS claims it objectively deleted Obama's statements about Benghazi until after the election, etc.

You just know for sure that they're lying, because communications are better.

But they're not a different sort of *person* or even really holding a different standard from Duranty and his propaganda for the Soviets.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 03:49 PM (bxiXv)

194 I'm gonna disagree with your premise here ("Obama and the Democrats seem to be playing for the long game"), Ace.

Instead, I maintain they are acting like children, so focused on the immediate cupcake sitting on the counter and not giving a shit about later hunger pangs. They can get immediate gratification -- the sweet taste of more tax money extorted from "the Rich," which can be used for a finite amount of Free Shit that may carry them along for a while.

By the time the SHTF, they hope some new source of cupcakes comes along. It always has, after all. Or, as an alternative, we will get into a war abroad or massive civil unrest at home that will distract the proles. Should they luck out and win the conflict (which they will, because "patriotic" Americans will jump to the nation's defense), they can still look like good guys.

I dislike Ayn Rand intensely, but her take on moochers' and looters' behavior is pretty much right on. If they survive today, tomorrow will take care of itself.

And that, IMO, is what Choom Boy and his co-conspirators are thinking. If it can actually be called "thinking" by any rational definition.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 29, 2012 03:49 PM (yKUrR)

195 166 -

Pedo Harry said today "we can put off until later giving tax breaks to the rich, what we can't put off is helping the middle class today."

Maybe not a word-for-word quote, but that was it in a nutshell.

You've got questions? They have answers.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 29, 2012 03:49 PM (TOk1P)

196 How does my ass taste now, America?

Posted by: Sen. Eugene MacArthey at November 29, 2012 03:49 PM (oy/E2)

197 Vote Present.

Let it burn.

Posted by: thirteen28 at November 29, 2012 03:50 PM (AbmsP)

198 Can't the GOP House just pass a bill that preserves the Bush tax rates and send it to Reid and Obama, put the Onus on them for letting the rates expire.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 29, 2012 03:50 PM (QXlbZ)

199 I'd be down for Let It Burn if we MARKETED OUR STRATEGY to the idiot masses.

Don't rely on the MSM. Get out there and BUY AIR TIME - RIGHT NOW - explaining what is happening and why. Explain the shit that is coming down the pipe in small words. No excuse for anyone to not have heard it.

Educate the masses. Buy air time on nightly news broadcasts and Univision. Now.

Perpetual campaign - either to win or LIB. But start now!


"Hope and Change, Good and Hard."
"Stagflation, you own it, Dems!"
"American downgraded, you own it, Dems!"

"Food stamp nation, you own it, Dems!"

"Email spying, you own it, Dems!"

"Lost generation, you own it, Dems!"


"Wage/skill stagnation, you own it, Dems!"



"Middle East wars, you own it, Dems!"





Notice a trend, you idiot GOP party leaders, politicians, and people controlling PAC money?!

(Pardon me for yelling.)


Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 29, 2012 03:50 PM (X/+QT)

200 If nothing else, this election reminded us of something we already knew: Don't put your faith in government. Find your own solutions to the parts of your life that you have control over. I am surprised how much differently I look at things since that terrible Tuesday night a few weeks ago.

Posted by: L, elle at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (0PiQ4)

201 Formatting fail.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (X/+QT)

202 The argument against Let It Burn is to think of your children and grandchildren.

There is honor in fighting a losing battle.

The future is not written in stone. Sometimes what looks like inevitable doom ... isn't.

Sometimes, if you fight back long enough and delay defeat ... you manage to win. Even if the whole time you were 100% convinced there was zero chance of victory.

We don't know what will happen in the future.

It looks really, really bad for us. Team Evil is clearly winning.

But it's not guaranteed that they'll win.

Amazing, unlikely comeback victories have happened before. The Reconquista happened. The savage Islamic hordes really were pushed back at the Gates of Vienna. Spain was retaken.

Defeat is not inevitable, even when highly likely.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (ZPrif)

203 192 I think I'll start making moonshine.
Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 03:49 PM (UK9cE)


Recently I caught an episode of 'Moonshiners' on the Discovery channel and it was pretty entertaining and addictive to watch. And it made me want to make my own moonshine too.

Posted by: Mætenloch at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (pAlYe)

204 159
Assuming your idea that there is a Cliff that will be Fallen from, what
is the approximate time frame you expect the USA to be burning in? 2
years? 5? More?



Really, think this through. The USA will carry on. You lost an election, it's not the end of the united states.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:42 PM (t1NLo)
It took a long time for the Romans to wind down, but they started down that path with Caesar and the corrupted Senate. We'll go the same way, but it won't take as long. You? You're fodder.

Posted by: Klawnet at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (ePxxX)

205 SKELETONS OF SOCIETY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-7rTBajoMo

Posted by: SLAYER! at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (Fm9UD)

206 BTW, I don't think we will go over a cliff. It will be more like skittering down a steep talus field.


Try to keep your balance and steer for the gravel.

Posted by: fluffy at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (z9HTb)

207 Lesson learned from the Obama administration. When you govern as ideologues, sometimes you get your ideology passed.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (gmeXX)

208 "$8 gasoline, you own it, Dems!"

Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (X/+QT)

209 He thinks there's only a one in three chance of averting it.

But there's only a 10% chance of that.

Posted by: Saltydonnie at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (v2B2W)

210 I'm beginning to think that the idea of automatic spending each year, rather than having to vote on each thing each year was not perfectly well thought-out.
Shouldn't it be easier to prevent spending than to permit it?
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at November 29, 2012 03:43 PM (SO2Q



*eye twitch* Must. Not. Launch. Into. Baseline. Budgeting. Rant. *eyetwitch*


Seriously, what the fucking fuck is baseline budgeting other than fuck you pay me. Hell, PJ O'Rourke did a great bit back in the late 80s early 90s about how you start a $100 million program to assist with self-esteem among debutantes (DebSelf I believe it was called) and, per baseline budgeting, in 10 years it's a $1 trillion program that cannot be cut omfg why do you hate puppies and kitties and smiles. I don't get to baseline budget. When those motherfuckers at Time Warner decide that all of a sudden my cable bill should go up $5 because reasons, that $5 has to come from some other part of my net income. I don't get a magic extra $5 to pay for it. Look, I can spend the hell out of someone else's money. I get the lure of doing that. But baseline budgeting is insane. I don't give any shits at all that oh noes it's so haaaaaarrrrdddd to make up a budget each year. Guess what? Businesses do it all the time. I bet you that each and every division and department at Apple has to come up with a yearly, quarterly, monthly, hell, weekly budget and has to justify every shiny silver dime. There's no reason the government can't do it as well.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (VtjlW)

211 Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 29, 2012 03:50 PM (QXlbZ)

I believe they already did....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (lZBBB)

212 The Democrats chase their tax hike on upper incomes are like a dog chasing a car; they really have no idea what they'll do after they catch it.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (QXlbZ)

213
From the top -
"in exchange for as little as $400 billion in Medicare cuts that do not even begin to take effect until 2013. That’s right: Boehner is about to sign off on a deal of $3 dollars in tax hikes now in exchange for $1 dollar in spending cuts 10 years from now. There is no way House Republicans will sacrifice their political careers for such a “grand bargain.”"

Er... maybe it's the new math or something, but I'm not seeing the"cuts ten years from now" in the bit quotedabove.Last I checked, ten years away is 2022 or 2023. But the article mentions the cuts taking place in 2013.

So which part is the bad info - the "cuts start ten years from now" part? Or the 2013 part?

Posted by: junior at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (UWFpX)

214 You? You're fodder.
Posted by: Klawnet at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (ePxxX)


I offer to round up the lions!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (4df7R)

215 187 My $0.02 - let it burn. A Pheonix doesn't rise from fields aplenty.

Posted by: blogRot at November 29, 2012 03:48 PM (chysP)


The Phoenix is a mythical creature.

I ain't sayin' it ain't gonna burn, I'm just sayin' nothin' good gonna come from it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (bxiXv)

216 Ther defict? Just a number. Inflation? Imaginary contruct of the wealthy right wing. Print more money, it doesn't matter, we can all be rich.

The sky isn't falling, no siree.

Posted by: Libtard at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (YmPwQ)

217 I really fail to see the value in folding for Obama and having a big tax increase and big MediCare cuts (that will never actually happen anyway)

Please tell me, can anyone with a straight face really say that Republicans in the House will look good with a deal like this?

If the economy goes down the shitter, Democrats and Obama are going to be blamed for it. It's laughable to think the American people are going to hold Boehner responsible.

Posted by: McAdams at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (sxk7T)

218 The argument against Let It Burn is to think of your children and grandchildren.
--------------

The counter-argument is who do you think we are thinking of. I'm willing to let it burn, which will hurt me and my family in the present for the greater good down the road. I don't see how I am helping my children and future grandchildren by kicking the can down the road. I'm willing to take the pain now, so that my kids can have a better more prosperous America.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (gmeXX)

219 Er... maybe it's the new math or something, but I'm
not seeing the"cuts ten years from now" in the bit quotedabove.Last I
checked, ten years away is 2022 or 2023. But the article mentions the
cuts taking place in 2013.

So which part is the bad info - the "cuts start ten years from now" part? Or the 2013 part?


Posted by: junior at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (UWFpX)

The cuts START in 2013, and cover 2022. I think.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (xAtAj)

220
it's all just a pathetic dance, a show for public consumption, all the big decisions have already been made...
the Repubs will fold, the Dems will get their tax hikes, the spending cuts will never be implemented.

we all know this will happen (except maybe Hollowpoint)

the dance is nescessary so that the press can blame everything onthe GOP.

don't dance you f-ing idiots...

Posted by: Shoey at November 29, 2012 03:54 PM (jdOk/)

221 Recently I caught an episode of 'Moonshiners' on the
Discovery channel and it was pretty entertaining and addictive to
watch. And it made me want to make my own moonshine too.


Posted by: Mætenloch at November 29, 2012 03:51 PM (pAlYe)


Yes. That show is brilliant.

I grow a little weary of them trying to set up the scene where it looks like the cop is 3 inches away from discovering the 'shiners, though.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 03:54 PM (UK9cE)

222 then let the Democrats at least have full ownership of the mayhem.

BuGawk!

Posted by: TehChicken at November 29, 2012 03:54 PM (Xefrb)

223 Formatting fail.


Formatting C-


Plenty of whitespace, didn't break the blog. It was readable.

Posted by: fluffy at November 29, 2012 03:54 PM (z9HTb)

224 15 The New Constitution Party. We could make our symbol a phoenix. Screw the GOP.

donkey, painted black and white to look like a zebra, and wearing a sombrero -- because that is the symbol of Tijuana, aka future America.

Posted by: Wooga at November 29, 2012 03:54 PM (hs37x)

225
198Can't the GOP House just pass a bill that preserves the Bush tax rates and send it to Reid and Obama, put the Onus on them for letting the rates expire.

---------

I think they already did that.

But the Senate/HairyReedchanged it...and want to preserve the Bush tax cuts for people making less than $250K.

Posted by: wheatie at November 29, 2012 03:54 PM (CM59X)

226
Nobody's going Galt, you say between dicks? Here's an interesting fact: I paid well into 6 figures in Federal income tax for nearly 20 years. This last year, 4 figures. This year, same.

And this'll really piss you off--we're doing fine. Got all we need and then some. You guys need me lots more than I need you, Olaf, but fuck you just because I can.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 29, 2012 03:54 PM (r5w1L)

227 Just walk away...

Posted by: The Humungus at November 29, 2012 03:55 PM (XvHmy)

228 If only there was some part of the globe sparsely inhabited by murderous savages that we could displace...

I'm not going back to Afghanistan...

Posted by: Alex at November 29, 2012 03:55 PM (3x3F6)

229 The Reconquista happened.
>>>
Que Pasa

Posted by: La Raza at November 29, 2012 03:55 PM (YmPwQ)

230 Nobody's going Galt, you say between dicks?

Laughing. My. Ass. Off.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:55 PM (4df7R)

231
Claire Wolfe's "Awkward Stage".

Yeah.I think we can smell it from here.

Posted by: Jaws at November 29, 2012 03:56 PM (4I3Uo)

232 159 Really, think this through. The USA will carry on. You lost an election, it's not the end of the united states.

But that's just it... The USA cannot carry on, because there is no more money. The USA can barely pay the minimum payments on its credit cards, and pretty soon it won't be able to do that anymore. The option it has chosen in the past, simply to open another credit account, won't be available this time. Tax increases on the rich won't do squat, since rich people have the means and incentive to either protect what they have through various legal means, or else just move elsewhere. Increasing taxes on the rich will not significantly increase revenue, and will do nothing to reduce the deficit. Surely you can see this. But then again, you're a troll, so of course you can't see it (or if you can, you won't admit it).

Posted by: John S. at November 29, 2012 03:56 PM (fQjba)

233 To leave a man like Boehner in the leadership position at a time like this IS grossly irresponsible. So the Republicans would rather wear the wrath of the nation than abandon their quaint little tradition?

Posted by: Decaf at November 29, 2012 03:56 PM (lTb7m)

234 Sometimes, if you fight back long enough and delay defeat ... you manage to win. Even if the whole time you were 100% convinced there was zero chance of victory.
--------------
I don't disagree with this statement in general, but sometimes you win by simply retreating and letting the enemy take your territory.We are not fighing from the high ground. Timeto retreat across the Hudson and fight another day.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:56 PM (gmeXX)

235 If the economy goes down the shitter, Democrats and
Obama are going to be blamed for it. It's laughable to think the
American people are going to hold Boehner responsible.


Posted by: McAdams at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (sxk7T)


So you really think so? Hee hee!

Posted by: MSM what knows how to place blame at November 29, 2012 03:56 PM (X/+QT)

236 Obama is a uniquely good candidate for the Dems. He's an egghead black guy.

The Dems won't always have an academic leftist + black rabble leftist.

The next Dem candidate is unlikely to have that advantage.

When given the opportunity, blacks tend to nominate idiot blacks like Marion Barry, Jesse Jackson, etc that repel all non-blacks.

We have to withstand Obama as much as possible. Only 4 more years.

When walking through hell, keep moving.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 29, 2012 03:56 PM (ZPrif)

237 Our current debt cannot be repaid, much less the one point two million million dollars the Democrats are adding each year. We must, in the end, default. Either expressly, or furtively through monetization and inflation.

Compound interest is a stone cold bitch.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 29, 2012 03:56 PM (evdj2)

238 "That’s right: Boehner is about to sign off on a deal of $3 dollars in
tax hikes now in exchange for $1 dollar in spending cuts 10 years from
now."

The guy is either indescribably stupid, or he's expecting the rank-and-file to save his ass (giving him an appearance of reasonability because of his gesture) by refusing to back such an idiotic position.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at November 29, 2012 03:57 PM (vd7A8)

239 If the economy goes down the shitter, Democrats and
Obama are going to be blamed for it. It's laughable to think the
American people are going to hold Boehner responsible.


Posted by: McAdams at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (sxk7T)


I really want what you're smoking.

There's no way in HELL the Dems are going to get credit for the demise. They NEVER HAVE, what the hell makes you think they will now?

Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 03:57 PM (UK9cE)

240 If you love your country you gotta love moonshine.

Posted by: Tickle at November 29, 2012 03:57 PM (b+jI9)

241
The only problem with this caving business is they're only getting tax hikes on the rich.

Really, Boner should insist behind closed doors on what Obama already wants - that they hike up taxes for the middle class too. Get their asses back in the game.

Posted by: entropy at November 29, 2012 03:57 PM (TULs6)

242 Its a choice of quick burn with a chance to put it out and save it in four years, or the 50 year slow burn that the people of the Soviet Union enjoyed with the creeping socialism and slumping economy that becomes "normal". Let it burn quick while people still have a memory of opportunity and prosperity reletively fresh in their minds. Either way its going to burn.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at November 29, 2012 03:57 PM (VLifP)

243 Here's an interesting fact: I paid well into 6 figures in Federal income
tax for nearly 20 years. This last year, 4 figures. This year, same.



Well done.

Posted by: fluffy at November 29, 2012 03:57 PM (z9HTb)

244 Maybe we could pull an Atlas Shrugged and everyone just stop working.

Man that would be awesome!



Posted by: hisfrogness at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (6orKY)

245 Really, think this through. The USA will carry on. You lost an election, it's not the end of the united states.

It's silly, trite little comments like this that make me certain in the belief that 95% of idiot regressives have the minds of feeble children, and a grasp of national and world affairs akin to that of an echidna.

The other 5% are simply evil.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (4df7R)

246 Heh. Internet big talk.

So going Galt can be defined down to staying in the country, doing what you were doing before you "went" Galt?

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (t1NLo)

247 67
America RIP

1776 - circa 2014

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at November 29, 2012 03:30 PM (SO2Q
One minor change - 1776-2008.We voted in Communism then.

Posted by: tubal at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (BoE3Z)

248 223 :-)

Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (X/+QT)

249 The counter-argument is who do you think we are
thinking of. I'm willing to let it burn, which will hurt me and my
family in the present for the greater good down the road. I don't see
how I am helping my children and future grandchildren by kicking the can
down the road. I'm willing to take the pain now, so that my kids can
have a better more prosperous America.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 03:53 PM (gmeXX)

Thanks for putting that into words -- my thoughts exactly.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (zpqa2)

250 One in four chance.

Posted by: SMOD at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (jPVBi)

251 I always wanted to see Montana. Drive a pick-up truck.

Posted by: Soona at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (oy/E2)

252 It looks really, really bad for us. Team Evil is clearly winning.

We just shot a home run field goal!!!!!! {clap clap} yay!!!!!!!

Posted by: Team Stupid at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (7OSWQ)

253 Vote PRESENT GOP... it worked for Choomer.... Then sit back and watch it burn... and Choomer, Harry Palm and the Botox Bitch run around with napalm in their hair as their dreams go up in smoke....

Posted by: Mjölnir, the banhammer from the gates of Hell at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (Jls4P)

254 Either expressly, or furtively through monetization and inflation.


Aren't we already monetizing?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (VtjlW)

255
It really doesn't matter who gets the credit for blowing up the old country. It's blown up. It doesn't matter. The question is who will rebuild the new one.

Besides, if any of you goobers think after the apocalypse we're going to go with fucking Republicans to rebuild either way,I am going to smack the shit out of you.

Posted by: entropy at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (TULs6)

256 244
Maybe we could pull an Atlas Shrugged and everyone just stop working.
Man that would be awesome!

Posted by: hisfrogness at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (6orKY)




I think that's already Obama's plan.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 29, 2012 04:00 PM (X/+QT)

257 There's no reason the government can't do it as well.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 29, 2012 03:52 PM (VtjlW)


They don't want to.

Baseline budgeting was a tactic to increase the government's share of the economy, period, full-stop.

But it was a tinkertoy compared to what the Dems did after they took over both legislative houses in 2007 - they instituted a system of "automatic budgeting" (as mentioned by Buzzsaw90) that made it even harder to stop the All Powerful Debt Juggernaut.

They set the bar higher for a budget, derailed and filibustered and argued and fought to the point where we don't even have *budgets* anymore, they just get automatic rehashes of their "insane crack whore with a stolen checkbook" budgets from 2007-2008. Remember, when we went from 250 billion deficits to 1.1 trillion overnight?

And they blamed it on Bush even though both houses (the purse strings people) were run by Dems? That one?

Without a dem-addled MFM, people would know this.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 04:00 PM (bxiXv)

258
"The argument against Let It Burn is to think of your children and grandchildren."

Yes, it's far more civilized to sentence them toan existence of strictly enforced mediocrity and ever-diminishing control over their own lives.

May their chains rest lightly and not interfere with their TV remotes.

Posted by: Jaws at November 29, 2012 04:00 PM (4I3Uo)

259 When President Fuckstick promised to 'fundamentally transform' America, what did you think he meant?

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 29, 2012 04:01 PM (8sCoq)

260 I want one cut today. I don't care if it is immaterial. Just give me one cut. Not a decrease, a cut. Cut PBS, cut NPR. Cut one of them. Cut the TSA. Anything. Just one real actual cut. Even if we know it will come back next year. Can the GOP just get one actual real cut through. Just one. My gosh, cutting PBS is like cutting HBO when your family is going through bankruptcy. It does nothing. But still it is one thing you are willing to give up. If the GOPcan't convince the public that taxing the rich for cutting PBS is not worth it, then they are completely worthless. Why even try to govern. Just let the tax rates expire and go home and enjoy Christmas. Don't even show up next year. They Dems have showed us that a budget isn't necessary.

One true actual cut. That is all I am asking for. Is it that hard?

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 04:01 PM (gmeXX)

261 If you love your country you gotta love moonshine.


Posted by: Tickle at November 29, 2012 03:57 PM (b+jI9)


Your excessive 24/7 beer drinking will be your downfall, sir. Cut back, relax, work your ass of and you will be rewarded.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 04:01 PM (UK9cE)

262 The "fiscal cliff" is BS in the sense that there is going to be a fiscal cliff whether it occurs with or without a "deal". The question is two-fold: (1) will it be a shear cliff crash, or a slower downhill roll crash. Either way, it's gonna crash, (2) where the blame will lay.

If the R's don't make a deal now, and push the "fiscal cliff" over the edge, the R's will get the blame. ALL of the R's. The narrative has already been set by the Administration and the MSM for quite some time.

I say they "make a deal" now [with this important caveat!!!] . The D's have the WH. The D's have the Senate. All they really need are a small handful of squishy-R's in the Senate (to prevent a filibuster, aka, Graham, McCain, Snowe, etc.), and approx. 25 squishy-R's in the House.

Let the squishes make the deal, and let the true fiscal conservatives (200+ in House and 40+ in Senate) stand together and say en masse, "we are NOT a part of this, when the economy crashes due to either stagflation, hyperinflation, recession, or depression, the blame will/must be on those who voted for this monstrosity."

When the proverbial sh*t hits the fan, fiscally/economically, all the R-squishes and all the D's are prime targets for primary challenges in 2014.

Posted by: Trubador at November 29, 2012 04:01 PM (MlrAE)

263 It really doesn't matter who gets the credit for blowing up the old country. It's blown up. It doesn't matter. The question is who will rebuild the new one.

Posted by: entropy at November 29, 2012 03:59 PM (TULs6)


Whoever promises the most free shit.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 04:01 PM (bxiXv)

264 Aren't we already monetizing?

We are, but you don't hear it called that. It's all euphemisms so the olafs of the country don't know what's going on.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 29, 2012 04:01 PM (evdj2)

265 So going Galt can be defined down to staying in the country, doing what you were doing before you "went" Galt?

Doing what you were doing and not giving a dime of income to be redistributed, and not paying a cent in wages to workers? Yes.

Enjoying the taste of that ass, tINlo? Tell them its extra if you let them fart in your face.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 04:02 PM (4df7R)

266 Ace has it right when he says the media will distort whatever happens to make us lose and Dems win. Have any of you noticed a pattern yet??!! I know you know this..

We (you and I) have the power to end this now. We simply have to stop funding our own destruction. We MUST push for a complete withdrawal from NBC (or CBS, ABC).

This isn't that difficult and it's not complicated.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:02 PM (cVYiZ)

267 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit, rooting for SMOD or the Mayans, whichever comes first at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (4df7R)

Yeah... this attitude is scary...

They really think there are no consequences for them.... that the Hard Men of the Military will always be there to protect them from their stupidity... even when they don't want to pay them, or give them equipment...

That someone else will pay taxes for their schools and roads...

That some magical thing will happen to save them....

Its the Dues Ex Machina idea of politics and life, where somthing will come and save them.....

But there comes a time.... and I think we are about there... where those who in the past saved them from the consequences of their stupidy, no longer have the POWER needed to save everyone... and so will save their own....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 29, 2012 04:02 PM (lZBBB)

268
>>>So going Galt can be defined down to staying in the country, doing what you were doing before you "went" Galt?

Since what I was doing before was handing you layabouts my hard-earned and now I am laughing at you as you grope around trying to find it, I'd say No to your question.

I have a big swimming pool, too. I swim in it now where I would have been at my desk before. Suck it.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 29, 2012 04:03 PM (r5w1L)

269 Too late. The American Stupid people have voted to give the crack whore another credit card. Gonna be a bitch when they send us the bill.

Posted by: wth at November 29, 2012 04:03 PM (wAQA5)

270 246
Heh. Internet big talk.



So going Galt can be defined down to staying in the country, doing what you were doing before you "went" Galt?





Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:58 PM (t1NLo)
Why you silly little prick, lots of us are pulling our assets off the table. Of course you wouldn't understand that would you?- your assets consisting of other people's shit you scrounge from the government. You strike me as a typical leftie parasite, having contributed nothing to the world except a smarmy attitude.All in all a worthless human being, aren't you?

Posted by: tubal at November 29, 2012 04:03 PM (BoE3Z)

271 When I see the Department of Education done away with, a department that has demonstrably made education worse at great expense, then I will have hope.

Until then, stockpile wood. Winter is coming.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 29, 2012 04:03 PM (evdj2)

272 Sequestration WILL be blamed on the GOP House, if it happens. I don't give two shits what the reality is or how much we moan and groan in the conservative media ghetto.

It can't be allowed to happen.

Obama won't negotiate in good faith because it's not in his interest to do so. Sequestration is fine with him because, well, re-read my first paragraph. Plus, he gets the higher taxes he wants, and then some.

I'm not sure what the micro strategy is, from both a legislative and a media perspective, but we need to just...get out of their way. Let them do what they want while loudly and repeatedly saying that the results are going to be all theirs. Avoid sequestration by taking the tax increases and the shoddy and pathetic sham cuts, and make them own it after.

I can't see how a liberal could complain about this. Gives them what they want, right? They should be thrilled and start the planning for the glorious mid-term election in 2014 when everyone will be eager to thank them for the roaring recovery their Keynsian and Krugman policies have created. Right?

Posted by: Fred at November 29, 2012 04:03 PM (IpwkJ)

273 260 Don't even show up next year.



That's got some charm to it. Better than voting present.

One thing I've learned is that we just need a super majority one time, pass an awesome budget (with zbb) then refuse to pass another one ever again. Just hold onto one branch with filibuster/veto power and you never have to increase spending again.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 29, 2012 04:04 PM (X/+QT)

274
254...Aren't we already monetizing?

Yes. Yes we are.
Creating money out of thin air, and then buying our own bonds with it...yep, that's monetizing our debt.

But hey, maybe we can get the Chicoms to give us some 'debt forgiveness' like we did for Mexico.

Posted by: wheatie at November 29, 2012 04:04 PM (CM59X)

275 There's no way in HELL the
Dems are going to get credit for the demise. They NEVER HAVE, what the
hell makes you think they will now?


Did Newt Gingrich get credit for the roaring 90's economy?

I don't doubt they'll all try to pin this on Republicans, but at some point, people are going to place more of the blame the President and Democrat controlled Senate as well.

Simply say, "these are the Clinton tax rates you've been wanting, shouldn't the economy be soaring right now?"

Boehner and Republicans are essentially gerrymandered to the point where they can't lose their majority anyway, but no one is going to be talking about this 2 years from now.

They tried to blame our SP downgrade on Boehner and it was a moot issue in the 2012 election.

Let it burn.



Posted by: McAdams at November 29, 2012 04:04 PM (sxk7T)

276 Every Republican in Congress needs to do nothing, just sit on their hands and vote "present".

If they take a firm stand on principle (hah!), the media will blame them for everything bad that happens.

If they all vote in favor of whatever the Democrats want, the media will blame them for everything bad that happens.

If they try to come up with a compromise, the media will blame them for everything bad that happens.

The only way to win is not to play. Let the Democrats own this shit. Let the Democrats know in advance that Republicans are going to let them pass whatever they want, so they can't even blame Republicans for any delay caused by trying to compromise.

Posted by: Brendan at November 29, 2012 04:04 PM (2jQGY)

277 I always hear you guys talk about how the media has brainwashed the "obamabots".

Look in the freaking mirror.

It's YOU who won't give up your Monday Night Football?
It's you who won't give up your Saturday College Football.
It's YOU who won't give up "The Office".

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:05 PM (cVYiZ)

278 What tickles me is the GOP is already dead: They just don't know it yet.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 29, 2012 04:05 PM (zpqa2)

279 I say they "make a deal" now [with this important caveat!!!] . The D's have the WH. The D's have the Senate. All they really need are a small handful of squishy-R's in the Senate (to prevent a filibuster, aka, Graham, McCain, Snowe, etc.), and approx. 25 squishy-R's in the House.
______________

I'm fine with your plan too. All I ask is that we get one small cut in exchange for raising the tax rates. Pass a simple single bill.

1. Tax rates for couples over $250,000 go back to 39%.
2. PBS is defunded.


But actually, what the GOP ought to do is raise taxes on the rich, lower taxes on the middle class (if even possible), in exchange for eliminating Obamacare. Tell the middle class that Obama is holding their tax rates hostage to save Obamacare.

Posted by: SH at November 29, 2012 04:06 PM (gmeXX)

280 ...let all those Bush Tax Cuts expire.

You're right, they have no idea. I posted that same sentiment on a lefty friend's FB as a comment to her post about taxing the "rich" and she hit the "like" button. She has no clue.

Posted by: Country Singer at November 29, 2012 04:06 PM (L8r/r)

281 Simply say, "these are the Clinton tax rates you've been wanting, shouldn't the economy be soaring right now?"

Boehner
and Republicans are essentially gerrymandered to the point where they
can't lose their majority anyway, but no one is going to be talking
about this 2 years from now.

They tried to blame our SP downgrade on Boehner and it was a moot issue in the 2012 election.

Let it burn.





Posted by: McAdams at November 29, 2012 04:04 PM (sxk7T)



The electorate is WAY different now than it was in the 90s. That and if you think ANYONE in Congress right now has the stones to actually say that, you're mistaken.

I agree, but we're fucked.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 29, 2012 04:06 PM (UK9cE)

282 The New Dollar is coming. The only question is whether it will have a picture of Reagan, or a picture of the SCoaMF and a shitload of zeros on it.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 29, 2012 04:07 PM (evdj2)

283 By the way, 75% of the time, when somebody says something like "there's a 1 in 3 chance of..." they haven't really done the math. They're just pulling the number out of their poop spitter.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 29, 2012 04:07 PM (TOk1P)

284 Boycotting NBS (or CBS, ABC) is the ONLY action we (you and I) can take.

We are not helpless. We can beat this monster. Organize. Unite around killing one of the MSM flagships. It's not that difficult. I swear you won't explode if you miss the latest episode of "The Office".

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:07 PM (cVYiZ)

285 @278

not dead, technically. We're going through FDR part II, we just have to wait until we find our eisenhower.

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 29, 2012 04:08 PM (3zQJl)

286
We took the kids to Paris this spring for 12 days. Normally I would have had to wait and remain in the harness producing wealth and tax revenue. Instead, we spent a whole day at the Musee D'Orsay and then went for a country-cuisine dinner, bouef and pate' and shit. Pretty awesome. Stuff like that every day for 12 days.

All the while, spending money in France, shitloads of money you'll never get your hands on, Olaf. May do it again next spring--maybe an annual thing. Just so you have to think about it and fume, Olaf.

LMAO! Suck it, parasite.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 29, 2012 04:09 PM (r5w1L)

287 I would call that a victory. My guessisthat cutting the DOE would result in very little savings. Regardless if we could somehow get rid of it, that would be a win.

Um, that's 80 billion a year, 4400 ass sucking crats in the shit can, almost a trillion over ten years. That would be a great start. But alas, the dems and gops both have friends and family employed their with six figure salaries, good luck with that.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 29, 2012 04:09 PM (3Y7RV)

288 I don't even need to read the comments above because your clever strategies DON'T MATTER.

The MSM is the real power here. Not Obama. Not Harry Reid. Not Pelosi.

We have to stop it now - and we can.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:10 PM (cVYiZ)

289 How's this for a compromise? (Seriously)

Let the Dems pass whatever they want but every piece of legislation has (a) a sunset date of 5 (?) years and (b) an advertising budget that blankets the low-info-voter media with info on what is passed - by the Dems - who it impacts, new laws/regulations/bureaucracy/etc involved.

Let's call it a 'trial period'. You voted for it, own it. Own it hard.

/Idea in process. Eh.

Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 29, 2012 04:11 PM (X/+QT)

290 Why isn't anyone talking about the fact that couples making 50k are about to see their tax rate nearly double? Maks the dems own it. Scream it from the rooftops. Yell about the libs wanting to see the child tax credit slashed in half. Yell about the fact that singles making less than 40K are about to pay the same rate that millionaires pay now. Yell that democrats asked for this and want it to.happen.

Posted by: Lauren at November 29, 2012 04:11 PM (wsGWu)

291 as far the gop being dead, effectively yes. All these "gop needs to do X" posts are missing the point. The only thing the GOP is going to do is roll over get the blame and no credit.

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 29, 2012 04:11 PM (3zQJl)

292 But what if the EPA has to let go the Chief Deputy in Charge of Hiding emails From FOIA Requests? How will the Republic carry on?

Posted by: Ted K. at November 29, 2012 04:11 PM (WGggC)

293 What rockmom suggested in 100 is the most reasonable solution. If populism is the only way then go with it. The House should write a bill increasing the tax on the top 2%, send it to Senate and then watch the contortions.

Posted by: Decaf at November 29, 2012 04:11 PM (lTb7m)

294 You all know how this "fiscal cliff" story ends.
Dems get what they want and for any negative consequences, Repubs will be blamed.

Why are you spinning your wheels? We must kill one of the major networks and we can.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:12 PM (cVYiZ)

295 Look in the freaking mirror.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:05 PM (cVYiZ)


You have a wonderful point, which you ruin by being a scold.

I haven't had cable or an antenna since like 1999 and I haven't even had a TV set for years.

So stop badgering and just keep your point out there without the badgering.

MFM delenda est.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 04:12 PM (bxiXv)

296 >>>I don't even need to read the comments above

Great way to get people to listen to your point of view, tell them in advance that you are going to totally ignore their point of view.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:14 PM (0q2P7)

297 I'm beginning to understand this site more...

You morons don't really care about fixing this. You just want to be clever and see who can make the snarkiest comments.

It's all bullshit. If you're not talking about taking down a major network, you're just talking to see whose king moron.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:14 PM (cVYiZ)

298 I take it back, the only thing the GOP can do is say "we wait for the senate's input."

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 29, 2012 04:15 PM (3zQJl)

299 don't let boehner negotiate against himself.

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 29, 2012 04:15 PM (3zQJl)

300
entitlement reform will amount to an increase in taxes on the nominally high wage earners- now just as it did for reagan. an increase in payroll taxes, by increasing rate or by increasing amount subject to tax. a decrease in benefits for those in selected income brackets is a left handed way of reaching the same goal. taxing benifits, moreof the same. the high income brackets do not receive the benrefit they pay for now. the lower income brackets receive a benefit they have not paid for fully.
therfore, increase taxes on everyone- do not engage in entitlement reform. let the system run its course.
if you are worried about your children and grandchildren, save $ for them. even though the $ will be worth less in the future than now. if you are a gambler, on the other hand, encourage them to borrow $- because they will pay it back in highly depreciated $.

Posted by: wm flip at November 29, 2012 04:15 PM (lB/5N)

301 >>> "You have a wonderful point, which you ruin by being a scold."

Fuck "scold" this isn't a f"ing game.
This is doable. And our loved ones' future depends on it. They depend on us. Someone has to shake this tree of snark into doing something useful.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:16 PM (cVYiZ)

302 277 I always hear you guys talk about how the media has brainwashed the "obamabots".

Look in the freaking mirror.

It's YOU who won't give up your Monday Night Football?
It's you who won't give up your Saturday College Football.
It's YOU who won't give up "The Office".
Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:05 PM (cVYiZ)


Actually it's the school system. The media just reinforces the indoctrination with propaganda, outright lies, half-truths and complete omissions.

They act as controllers for the half-educated college graduates to make sure the process sticks.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 29, 2012 04:16 PM (CxJM2)

303 >>>We must kill one of the major networks and we can.

Killing one is merely lopping off one head of the beast 9 more are there to cover for it. If you are going to make a serious dent, you need to off at least 3 major networks, and at a least 1 major newspaper. And have conservative replacements ready for them.

We are not ready for that, nor do we have the power to do that yet.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:16 PM (0q2P7)

304 You morons don't really care about fixing this. You just want to be clever and see who can make the snarkiest comments.

You're just jealous.

Posted by: Decaf at November 29, 2012 04:17 PM (lTb7m)

305 So you are saying Boehner is a good negotiator and won't sell us out.



BWAHAHAHAH!


I don't know if he will or won't.

I do know that any deal, no matter how much spending is cut or how little taxes go up for anybody, will be characterized as a "sell out".

If (and it's a very big "if") Politico is right and they settle for $400 billion cut from Medicare in exchange for $1.2 trillion in additional taxes, then yes- you'd be right in calling it a sell out.

Let's not get our panties in a wad until we see what actually gets proposed and agreed upon though. Don't forget who the enemy in this fight is.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 29, 2012 04:18 PM (SY2Kh)

306 Ace,

I'm glad you used this post to respond to my previous question.

So let me be more precise:

At what point do you, Ace, say, "Im starting to suspect that Boehner and McConnel are not on 'our' side."?

There has to be a certain threshold, ace, where the constant capitulation and enabling if the advancement if the liberal agenda is no longer "the exception to the rule."

Ace, let's get realistic. Every single time, not exaggerating, every single time, we've seen the exact same playbook and responses from Mitch and John. There are literally no times when it has been otherwise.

Ace, are you willing to acknowledge, at least to yourself if not on the blog, the blindingly obvious?

Ace, Mitch and John are not on your side or the side of the coalition that the GOP represents.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 29, 2012 04:18 PM (zLsg3)

307 You just want to be clever and see who can make the snarkiest comments.
It's all bullshit. If you're not talking about taking down a major network, you're just talking to see whose king moron.
Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:14 PM (cVYiZ)


New to the Internetz you are.

Posted by: Mætenloch at November 29, 2012 04:19 PM (pAlYe)

308 This is going to be great!

Posted by: Flounder at November 29, 2012 04:19 PM (MYk9Y)

309 Yes, they are playing the long game. Michelle has oft mentioned that in her speeches. Of course the media blithely ignored it.

Let's go over the cliff--at least the dopes that voted the Obamas in will go down in flames too.

Posted by: PJ at November 29, 2012 04:20 PM (ZWaLo)

310 >>>It's YOU who won't give up your Monday Night Football?

It's you who won't give up your Saturday College Football.

It's YOU who won't give up "The Office".

1. I don't have cable or satellite.
2. I don't have a Nielson box.
3. I don't ever answer polls about what TV I watch.

If you knew how things actually worked you'd know it doesn't matter who I watch, I don't get counted.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:20 PM (0q2P7)

311 Why are you spinning your wheels? We must kill one of the major networks and we can.
Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:12 PM (cVYiZ)


Why don't you lay out your detailed plan for subterfuge and destruction and let us judge that for ourselves?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 29, 2012 04:20 PM (CxJM2)

312 >>> "We are not ready for that, nor do we have the power to do that yet."

I work for a major media corp. One of the biggest. I promise you that if we can kill NBC, you WILL have the attention of the other commie networks. These guys need to keep their jobs. They're not funded by some imaginary commie in the sky.

"Don't have the power?"
You turn off the f* switch!!!

How does that take power?

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:20 PM (cVYiZ)

313
Kill a dying network? Yeah, that's smart. And so much foresight.
I'm pretty sure once CBS goes down, Harry Reid will give up his power and money.

Posted by: Ted K. at November 29, 2012 04:21 PM (WGggC)

314 I'm beginning to understand this site more...



You morons don't really care about fixing this. You just want to be clever and see who can make the snarkiest comments.


You're absolutely right. You shouldn't put up with it for one more minute.

I mean, how is it not obvious that refusing to watch Monday Night Football is the one and only only surefire solution to all of our problems?

You should go tell the Freepers. They'd be happy to join in your ragey rage-a-thon against The Machine. Just be careful not to use any big words.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 29, 2012 04:23 PM (SY2Kh)

315 I don't buy Bernie Goldberg's thesis in 'Bias' that the media honestly believed they were centrist and fair. That wasn't true even then. They always knew who they hated and made sure everyone was led to feel the same.

Posted by: Decaf at November 29, 2012 04:23 PM (lTb7m)

316 We put pressure on Rush or Levin, or Palin or Beck or all of them to organize a complete boycott of NBC (to start). We tell the networks this is what we're doing and we tell them why.

Ace has influence. We all have influence. We need to concentrate on something WE can actually do. This is doable by us.

It will give us a victory in this cesspool of defeat we find ourselves in right now.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:24 PM (cVYiZ)

317
Olaf, you'll love this: While their friends are off at school learning how to be citizens of your new Utopia, mine are being "home-schooled". And, by "home-schooled" I mean they roll out of bed around 10, work on their laptops until noon and spend the rest of the afternoon lolling around the pool in floaty chairs.

They may never contribute a fucking thing to your welfare state, but they'll never have to work for your dumb ass, either.

Work the shaft, parasite!

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 29, 2012 04:24 PM (r5w1L)

318 >>>I promise you that if we can kill NBC, you WILL have the attention of the other commie networks.

Eh. I'm highly skeptical bankrupting NBC, if we could do it, and I don't think we can, will

1. Get rid of NBC, they will just go restructure and carry on.
2. Even dent the liberal bias in the news rooms.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:24 PM (0q2P7)

319 >>> "Kill a dying network? Yeah, that's smart. And so much foresight."

More bullshit snark. NBC scored 20,000,000 viewers for Sunday Night Football.

Stop lying to yourselves that the major nests are dying. They rule our country. Did you not just watch the last election?

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:26 PM (cVYiZ)

320 Hey simple sucker of cock, I haven't turned on my tv in months. Go F- Yourself

Posted by: mugiwara at November 29, 2012 04:26 PM (W7ffl)

321 1. I don't have cable or satellite.
2. I don't have a Nielson box.
3. I don't ever answer polls about what TV I watch.

If you knew how things actually worked you'd know it doesn't matter who I watch, I don't get counted.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:20 PM (0q2P7)


I do have satellite. TCM, AMC, and MiltChan is all I watch. Stopped watching History Channel when they went full blown stupid. Life without People, Gorebal Warming Crap and the one about people being forced out of the 'burbs finally set the final nail in that shit. Fuck them.

Have never had a box and have never been polled.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 29, 2012 04:26 PM (CxJM2)

322 Fuck "scold" this isn't a f"ing game.
This is doable. And our loved ones' future depends on it. They depend on us. Someone has to shake this tree of snark into doing something useful.
Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:16 PM (cVYiZ)

Tree of snark? OMG, how did we survive before you came along. Oh great solver of problems, please tell us more.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 29, 2012 04:27 PM (3Y7RV)

323 >>> "Eh. I'm highly skeptical bankrupting NBC, if we could do it, and I don't think we can, will"

Ok. Let's say I'm wrong. What the hell do we have to lose? Isn't it worth a shot? Or is it better to sit at our keyboards and think of the next humorous cut-down we can share with our moron buddies?

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:28 PM (cVYiZ)

324 >The argument against Let It Burn is to think of your children and grandchildren.

Fighting to preserve an irredeemably broken system is not doing yourself or your children any favors. Our economy is going to collapse no matter what we do. We're going to have Greek style (or likely much worse) chaos in our streets. People are going to die. None of this can be prevented.

So, how exactly is making a conscious decision to get it over with so we can come out the other side that much sooner not a service to your children and grandchildren? How is kicking the can down the road doing them any favors?

Posted by: DanInMN at November 29, 2012 04:29 PM (XqeyF)

325 I'm on board, sympleton. Lay out the detailed plan. Let's see it from now until NBC is dead. Step by step.

I never watch NBC now. What else do I do?

Posted by: Marmo at November 29, 2012 04:31 PM (QW+AD)

326 Someone has to shake this tree of snark into doing something useful.

So what are you doing here with us useless? Why aren't you out there trying to convert the sinners, like the ones you work with in that media company. Instead you want us to storm your workplace.

Posted by: Decaf at November 29, 2012 04:31 PM (lTb7m)

327 Ok. You're right. I don't need to be an asshole about it...

But this just seems to me so doable if we could just focus our rage and concern into fighting back the only way I can see how.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:31 PM (cVYiZ)

328 Ok. Let's say I'm wrong. What the hell do we have to lose? Isn't it worth a shot? Or is it better to sit at our keyboards and think of the next humorous cut-down we can share with our moron buddies?
Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:28 PM (cVYiZ)

Man, you are soooo deep, American thinker is looking for someone just like you. Miss Coville prolly needs a moderator.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 29, 2012 04:31 PM (3Y7RV)

329 >>>It will give us a victory in this cesspool of defeat we find ourselves in right now.

A meaningless victory. Until we are offering viable alternatives, no amount of boycotting is going to get the job done. You are just pissing up a rope until then.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:31 PM (0q2P7)

330 Saul Alinsky Rule 12 The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:32 PM (0q2P7)

331
One less liberal network just means the liberal viewers who lose their network will go to the other liberal networks, increasing their ratings, and allow the networks to be even more liberal to cater to their viewers. This is what happened when Fox came along. There are a million channels out there, plus a billion more websites. This ain't the old days.
The left gives away free stuff. The right doesn't. The only waysignificantnumbers ofpeopleare ever going to move right is when the whole thing collapses. And as Greece has shown, even then it doesn't happen right away.

Posted by: Ted K. at November 29, 2012 04:32 PM (WGggC)

332 >>> "Why aren't you out there trying to convert the sinners"

You can't "convert" the winning team. You have to beat the winning team.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:32 PM (cVYiZ)

333 Sympleton, I'd like to see cable providers unbundle their channels. If I could choose not to buy NBC and all the other alphabet lefty extremist networks, I'd do it in a heartbeat. How do we do that?

Posted by: Marmo at November 29, 2012 04:33 PM (QW+AD)

334 >>> "A meaningless victory. Until we are offering viable alternatives"

We have an alternative and you're looking at it right now.. The Internet.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:33 PM (cVYiZ)

335 >>>Isn't it worth a shot?

If it accomplishes nothing and we burn our influence to do this, then it further demoralizes an already demoralized coalition and diminishes our influence into the future.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:34 PM (0q2P7)

336 Killing one is merely lopping off one head of the beast 9 more are there to cover for it. If you are going to make a serious dent, you need to off at least 3 major networks, and at a least 1 major newspaper. And have conservative replacements ready for them. We are not ready for that, nor do we have the power to do that yet.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:16 PM (0q2P7)


--------------------------------------------------


With the general attitude of the majority of the populace (and, yes, we are a minority now) is structured and defined, nothing will happen to the status quo until it finally crumbles to ashes.

We could boycott till the cows come home, but it wouldn't make a dent in the leviathon that we have as the pillars of the present society.

It will take a cleansing fire. And the fire will happen in the blue states. For those of us in the red states, we need to support our governments in resisting what comes out of DC. We need to be the examples to those who are crawling out of the ashes.

Posted by: Soona at November 29, 2012 04:34 PM (oy/E2)

337 316 We put pressure on Rush or Levin, or Palin or Beck or all of them to organize a complete boycott of NBC (to start). We tell the networks this is what we're doing and we tell them why.

Ace has influence. We all have influence. We need to concentrate on something WE can actually do. This is doable by us.

It will give us a victory in this cesspool of defeat we find ourselves in right now.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:24 PM (cVYiZ)


Have not watched broadcast TV in almost 10 years. Welcome to the party, pal.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 29, 2012 04:35 PM (CxJM2)

338 >>> "Sympleton, I'd like to see cable providers unbundle their channels. If I could choose not to buy NBC and all the other alphabet lefty extremist networks, I'd do it in a heartbeat. How do we do that?"

Ain't gonna happen.
We just have to suck it up and start finding our content on the Internet. Cable has to go.

I know... I'm an addict too. But this is sooo much more important.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:36 PM (cVYiZ)

339
20,000,000 viewers in a country of 310,000,000? Holy shit, it's over! NBC has us under their power - as long as they show football.
There are more non-English speakers in the country than 20,000,000. Walter Cronkite's been dead for years, and the networks might as well be.

Posted by: Ted K. at November 29, 2012 04:36 PM (WGggC)

340 >>>>We have an alternative and you're looking at it right now.. The Internet.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! I used to think that too, before Nov 6. Until we have our own networks with entertainment quality on par with what we a knocking out to spoon feed the squishy middle, don't expect the politically apathetic to all the sudden get the sudden urge to work for their news and entertainment. They will just transition to another network. And once we've knocked out one, our punch is pretty much done. So we knock out NBC they go to ultra liberal ABC instead. Yeah.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:38 PM (0q2P7)

341 I gotta get back to work. I'll be back with the same message until I hear of a non-defeatist reason why it won't work.

So far I haven't. Sorry if I was a dick - but this shit is important. To tell you the truth what drew my to your site is the snark and the humor... but we have to fight this... I have a kid. You have a kid. It's ok for us - but not them.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:39 PM (cVYiZ)

342 >>>until I hear of a non-defeatist reason why it won't work.

There is no viable alternative on our side. The internet is not yet a viable alternative to network TV.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 29, 2012 04:40 PM (0q2P7)

343 Ain't gonna happen.

We just have to suck it up and start finding our content on the Internet. Cable has to go.



I think there's a much better shot at forcing cable and satellite providers to unbundle then there is getting one of the major networks to collapse. Devices like Roku and Apple TV are showing people right now how great it is to be able to pick and choose your channels so it's only a matter of time before that seeps into how people view cable and satellite. But making a network collapse? Well, all you have to do is look at the music industry, it's been pretty devastated by the free music on the net, but it's still going, just with cheaper and shittier artists, that's what the networks would do too, they'd get by.



Posted by: booger at November 29, 2012 04:48 PM (HI6wa)

344 330 Mike the Moose,

Run Red speaks to that.

Letting it burn is not setting the fire it is refusing to max your earning potential and feeding this unjust unfree beast.

Run Red is gathering together enough like minded folk to allow economic freedom and the freedom to fail or grab what you can to exist in the world.

The Socialist assholes keep offering up a false choice of our founding being possible only in total anarchy like Africa now has, that's horseshit.

The freedom to succeed needs freedom to fail.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 29, 2012 04:56 PM (LRFds)

345 Fuck "scold" this isn't a f"ing game.

Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:16 PM (cVYiZ)


Yes, and obviously the best way to win is to alienate potential allies, and make a joke of yourself.

That would *never* fail.

I mean, pretty clearly the best way to get people to agree with you is to insult them and drive them away from you.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 29, 2012 05:02 PM (bxiXv)

346 Democrats knew they'd get slaughtered in 2010 with Obamacare. They didn't care. It was worth losing one mid term election in order to get nationalized health care passed. This is how they play the game.

Republicans will never learn.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 29, 2012 05:03 PM (HDgX3)

347
For my money, Erskine Bowles is an optimist. 1 in 3 chance? more like 1 in 16 trillion chance, if you ask me.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 29, 2012 05:18 PM (1hM1d)

348 What is this "mooshine" you refer to? Is it the glow the moonbats have as they push the USA off a cliff?

Posted by: Hamilton Burger at November 29, 2012 05:34 PM (kyFvp)

349 I'm just saying the sky is not falling, and none of you guys are really going to go Galt.

Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:34 PM (t1NLo)
-----------------------
Oh Yeah fuckhead? We did just that, sale of business completed last month.Done. No more production out of us. There are many of us and we are legion and we will not pay for you to suck us dry. Done. And it will burn, you'll be the one eating hobo in the street. Revel in your inferno, asshole. You deserve it.

Posted by: Derak at November 29, 2012 05:59 PM (lkjWK)

350 Posted by: sympleton at November 29, 2012 04:05 PM (cVYiZ)

Dude, you've made your point. Back off with the insults.

for the record, I just hauled all three of my HD boxes into comcast, cancelled as of 11/7. That's $2000 bucks I just saved. Just shoved the propaganda machine right on over the counter and it felt good. Helps that I have court side season tickets to my favorite basketball team, so there simply will be no pain from bread and circus withdrawl.

But quit with the insults. These fine AofShq folks get it.

Posted by: Derak at November 29, 2012 06:09 PM (lkjWK)

351 Went Galt here. Nov 7 I quit my job mainly because that was the only way I could get to my money locked up in the 401k. Took the penalty and paid the taxes. Now its really mine. If I decide to blow it all on hookers, Jim Beam and Marlboros well that's better than leaving it out there for the next John Corzine to steal. Funny thing is my HR dude said he was going to do the same thing. Screw the Red and Blue teams. Let it burn baby.

Posted by: poots at November 29, 2012 06:18 PM (gDytV)

352 This just political bullshit
They can change tax laws in the middle of the year

Posted by: TexasJew at November 29, 2012 08:45 PM (lD8ju)

353 It is like 1933 except instead of hardworking Okies trying to survive the Dustbowl, we have unemployable ghetto Welfare shitheads who couldn't find their lazy asses if they were glued to their heads.
Big difference

Posted by: TexasJew at November 29, 2012 08:48 PM (lD8ju)

354 Erskine Bowles? Never heard of him.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at November 29, 2012 09:31 PM (nS14U)

355 Olaf is a sensible and reasonable observer of the political process, not a hate-filled racist like the rest of you vile Morons.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at November 29, 2012 10:10 PM (oN/VZ)

356 Yep, at this point the smartest course is to LET.IT.BURN....Yes it will be painful, yes many people will lose everything but think of this as radiological treatments to kill the larger cancer.

The House repubs should just walk out of this, have nothing to do with it but alas they will cave as they fear being portrayed as big meanies. That and loosing their gig, at least when things come crashing down their families won't feel it.

It's time for a game-changer. In order to right this ship we may have to scuttle her to hope she's recovered and refitted.

Posted by: ATLDiver at November 29, 2012 11:09 PM (rCsM0)

357 "44Why the desire to destroy America? Isn't that deeply unpatriotic?

You lost an election. Get a grip, world ain't gonna end.Posted by: Olaf at November 29, 2012 03:26 PM (t1NLo)"Yes, the world is going to end. All the networks say so, that is unless we raise taxes on the rich, rob the dead, molest our childrens financial futureand hand over congressional powers to Obama. You observational skills are severely lacking!

Posted by: Africanus at November 30, 2012 02:18 AM (fbOLK)






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