Analysis: Default Is Coming, But We'll Call It Reform

Something which can't be sustained, won't be.

One way or another, then, entitlements will be cut. Don't call it default. The correct term is entitlement reform.

You saw this day coming and saved for your own retirement. Don't call it default when Washington inevitably confiscates some of your savings, say, by raising taxes on dividends and capital gains. Taxpayers accept the risk of future tax hikes that may make the decision to save seem foolish in retrospect.

According to economists Robert Novy-Marx and Josh Rauh, state and local taxes would have to increase by $1,385 per household immediately to make good the pension promises to state and local workers, including firefighters and cops. That's not going to happen given all the other demands on taxpayers. Default, in this case, is the proper word for cities and states using bankruptcy to repudiate their pension obligations.

...

Now let it be said that inflation isn't fundamentally a solution to the entitlement problem, but the Federal Reserve is being led by increments to accommodate inflationary financing of future deficits. Don't call it default. Inflation is a risk savers are deemed to have accepted by putting their faith in the U.S. dollar.

Here's what you weren't told about Medicare during the presidential debates. Under the Paul Ryan plan, the affluent would pay more. Under the Obama plan, the affluent would flee Medicare to escape the waiting lists, shortages and deteriorating quality as Washington economizes by ratcheting down reimbursements to doctors and hospitals. Don't call either default. You don't have a legally enforceable right to the free care you imagined you were promised.

A big thing that's lurking beneath our politics -- which most people don't see yet -- is that there is going to be a mad scramble between "investor classes" in the coming US managed bankruptcy, with Obama insisting his coalition be paid off first and Republicans demanding their constituents be first in line to collect the very limited of dollars salvageable from the concern. Four or five dollars have been promised for every dollar actually available.

Posted by: Ace at 08:15 PM



Comments

1 Meeeeee!!!!!

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:17 PM (0PiQ4)

2 So happy!!!!!!!!

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:18 PM (0PiQ4)

3 Ok I'll go read what you wrote now Ace

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:18 PM (0PiQ4)

4 Let it burn.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 24, 2012 08:18 PM (++kZl)

5 Hi ace! Feeling better?

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:19 PM (0PiQ4)

6 Don't call it default when Washington inevitably confiscates some of
your savings, say, by raising taxes on dividends and capital gains.


LOL at the notion of capital gains once the leverage in the stock market is unwound.

Posted by: Methos at November 24, 2012 08:20 PM (hO9ad)

7 Four or five dollars have been promised for every dollar actually available.

I don't see a problem with this.

Posted by: Doug Henning at November 24, 2012 08:22 PM (6JMZR)

8 OK to sum up, we're looking a repeat of how Barry "saved " GM? Is that it?

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:22 PM (0PiQ4)

9 Going to Argentina for Christmas. They are doing and have done this already. Remember all private retirement accounts (think your 401K)were confiscated and forced into government bonds. The government defaulted on it's bonds. The Central Bank head was fired when he would not inflate the currency. Currently there are currency controls to forbid you from getting your money out of the country.


Inflation is 25%.

The country use to be the Fourth largest in the world. Now, 86th.

All of this is coming your way.


Have a nice day.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the 1% at November 24, 2012 08:23 PM (wR+pz)

10 The inevitable conflict is why we've been buying up the guns, isn't it?

It's become painfully obvious there is no reasoning with leftists. We will kill them and the islamists, or one or the other or both in concert will kill us. There are no peaceful alternatives except abject surrender.

Posted by: Adjoran at November 24, 2012 08:23 PM (ZHQvg)

11 Choom Boy hasn't finished draining the blood from the dwindling number of people who still have some left. He'll manage at least one more burst of largesse for his enablers and most eligible (by being members of protected classes or pals of his Congressional co-conspirators).

And then, the default, which he will blame on Dubya, Teh Mutt and all of us.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 24, 2012 08:24 PM (yKUrR)

12 So, most of us are very accomplished at the deer-in-the-headlights view on this situation. We have seen it coming for a long time. Great. We can even have a contest over who can describe the situation best.


But, does anybody got a real idea on what to do? And, no, I am not particularly interested in a whole bunch of "live in a cave," / "join the militia" / "shoot your neighbors" / "let it burn" rants. I've read plenty of those. They are not very helpful right now.


Really, does anybody have a good idea? Gold seems over to me and besides that I can't eat it. What can we actually do to avoid being wiped out financially?

Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 08:24 PM (kfC1R)

13 Hmmm, this sounds hauntingly familiar to something Monty wrote about a time or twenty.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 08:25 PM (ccXZP)

14 Lackluster at best.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:25 PM (NIZHJ)

15 Hi rons. Back from thanksgiving at my mas. After reading this I am very happy she tripped and fell over a millionair after my dad died. Or I should say, he tripped and fell into her.

I will be laughing my ass off at these self important free riding idiots. Yep, let it burn.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:25 PM (3Y7RV)

16 Put your money in Canada.

Posted by: MidwesternSceptic at November 24, 2012 08:26 PM (MMTJh)

17 One more Argentina note. Son was down there two years ago. He is going with me. I planned to take some US Dollars to buy stuff cheap. He said don't take anything bigger that a Ten. They are broke, take lots of ones, they buy a lot.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the 1% at November 24, 2012 08:26 PM (wR+pz)

18 So by not saving and stuff, I've been ahead all along.

Moron style wins again!

Posted by: K~Bob at November 24, 2012 08:26 PM (OQZAq)

19 13 Hmmm, this sounds hauntingly familiar to something Monty wrote about a time or twenty.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 08:25 PM (ccXZP)


I miss the wrist slitting practicality of monty's posts.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:26 PM (3Y7RV)

20 I think Ima gonna cry. Everything I saved for has turned from a comfortable final years to a can of beans and maybe a half eaten dumpster hot dog. FML

Posted by: Ronster at November 24, 2012 08:27 PM (nQMHQ)

21 Bet it learn.

Posted by: Dyslexic Dan at November 24, 2012 08:28 PM (6JMZR)

22 jc, when you find a good answer, please come tell me. People whose opinion I trust insist that we are looking at Japan not Argentina as our future, but everything I read makes things sound so dire. I feel so insecure and uncertain, and I hate it.

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:28 PM (0PiQ4)

23 Went to my local gun store the other day - ammo shelves were practically empty. Clerk said he couldn't keep the shelves stocked over the last few weeks. As soon as a new order arrives and gets stocked to the shelves, they're all gone by the next day.

Posted by: Not an Artist at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (uRumV)

24 Oh well, already lost my 401K.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (ZOf1l)

25 20 I think Ima gonna cry. Everything I saved for has turned from a comfortable final years to a can of beans and maybe a half eaten dumpster hot dog. FML
Posted by: Ronster at November 24, 2012 08:27 PM (nQMHQ)

Hey, there is about a billion poor muslims that would love to have those beans and half eaten hot dog. Maybe you can trade them for a slightly used AK.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (3Y7RV)

26 Argentines are what Spanish and Italian? Sounds like a good place to visit. Do they take EBT?

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (NIZHJ)

27 Chicago Jesus the cool rockstar will solve all problems.

Posted by: Weyland Corp. #8 at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (Kflw4)

28 The US defaulting on a massive scale is something I could see actually puting people in the streets.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (GEICT)

29 Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 08:24 PM (kfC1R)

Farmland. Self sufficiency in energy and food and self protection. Don't put shit where the gubmint can easily put their hands on it.

And remember, paper currency will be worthless.

These are classic suggestions for when TSHTF.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (ccXZP)

30 Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:28 PM (0PiQ4)

Not trying to be mean but how old are you?

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 08:30 PM (ZOf1l)

31 When I win the Powerball tonight, I'm totally buying my ideal piece of Missouri land. There's a few in the listings with such massive springs that they support commercial trout farms.

If I don't win the Powerball tonight, by spring of next year I'll buy whatever piece of land $30k or so can buy me.

Posted by: Palandine at November 24, 2012 08:30 PM (g7D8V)

32 "Don't call it default. The correct term is entitlement reform."

This is not necessarily true. Bernanke can simply create money, give it to the government, and they can pay pensions forever. I believe this is the Democrat's plan. Tax the shit out of workers all their lives, then devalue the savings of those who tried to plan ahead.

Those cranks who said to buy gold are looking a hellovalot smarter than I expected.

Posted by: Kevin at November 24, 2012 08:31 PM (ufexm)

33 Samuel Adams,

You never ask a woman her age.

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:31 PM (0PiQ4)

34 My 200.5 K is fine.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:31 PM (NIZHJ)

35 @23

Gun show here on the 8th. I expect it to be a zoo. Remember all those ammo purchases by Big Sis and the other agencies? Kept the ammo out of our hands and kept it expensive. At one point my guy said ammo would go down as the Afgan war slowed, now? not a chance.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the 1% at November 24, 2012 08:31 PM (wR+pz)

36 Was in Walmart couple days ago. I hate going there but it's just around the corner. All my favorite ammo was in stock and priced to sell. God love 'em.

Posted by: Tobacco Road, who is seriously sick of family this Thanksgiving at November 24, 2012 08:32 PM (4Mv1T)

37 The fate of GM is a good model for what is coming.

What? You had legal rights concerning your stock and shit?

Bwahahaha!

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 08:32 PM (bWwMZ)

38 But, does anybody got a real idea on what to do?

You know that scene in Deep Impact when Tea Leoni stands on the shore, looks up at the wave, and hugs her father.

That's pretty much the extent of my plan.

Posted by: Methos at November 24, 2012 08:32 PM (hO9ad)

39 They can't take it if they can't find it.

You fucked up. You trusted a government.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 08:33 PM (OQpzc)

40 "You saw this day coming and saved for your own retirement. Don't call
it default when Washington inevitably confiscates some of your savings,
say, by raising taxes on dividends and capital gains."

Confiscates SOME of your savings?

Bela Pelosi has quietly talked about outright nationalization of private 401(k)s.

The whole enchilada. Essentially this event happened in Argentina to private pensioners. As America comes more and more to be a Latin American country culturally, don't be surprised when Latin American style expropriations get rolling.



"Default, in this case, is the proper word for
cities and states using bankruptcy to repudiate their pension
obligations."


States can't go bankrupt. Not yet, anyway. It would require changes to federal law.
Here in the People's Soviet Socialist Republic of Commiefornia, the consistently leftist courts have really given cities a hard time about discharging their pension liabilities in bankruptcy court.


"Inflation is a risk savers are deemed to have
accepted by putting their faith in the U.S. dollar."
Smart savers cause their saved money to vanish from the custody of the banks and the surveillance of the government. And smart savers convert their savings from a government-issued and government-printed format into a form that can't be printed.

Physical gold and silver, bought for cash, untraceably, verified to be the genuine article, and stowed in distributed caches. That part is easy enough. Don't plan on using a GPS to find your way back to your cache points. That's harder.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 24, 2012 08:33 PM (ymG7s)

41 *hopefully looks to sky for SMOD*

Posted by: RushBabe at November 24, 2012 08:33 PM (tQHzJ)

42
That's pretty much the extent of my plan.
Posted by: Methos at November 24, 2012 08:32 PM (hO9ad)


It's a plan.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:33 PM (3Y7RV)

43 Jc

Farmland. Check.

Self protection. Check.

Food and energy I need to work on.

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:34 PM (0PiQ4)

44 26
Argentines are what Spanish and Italian? Sounds like a good place to visit. Do they take EBT?


NO. They like US cash. Even our sorry currency is worth more than theirs. Don't forget they have Germans too. Mostly a lot of union bums the don't work.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the 1% at November 24, 2012 08:34 PM (wR+pz)

45 "Those cranks who said to buy gold are looking a hellovalot smarter than I expected"

You think Obama won't pull a FDR and confiscate all precious metals as 'strategic resources' as part of the 'shared sacrifice' Donks have been demanding?

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 24, 2012 08:34 PM (KCvsd)

46 That's a very winded way to say "we're fucked."

Posted by: Sponge at November 24, 2012 08:34 PM (nDcVA)

47 Mini almost argument with Lib wife and her niece and fiancé.

Liberalism is a mental disorder, bless their pointy heads.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 24, 2012 08:35 PM (XkWWK)

48 25. OSP. I would rather see the bastards starve to death. I'm a heartless person.

Posted by: Ronster at November 24, 2012 08:35 PM (nQMHQ)

49 Move to a red State and don't delay.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 08:35 PM (bWwMZ)

50 Pensions? What pensions? Oh, you were PROMISED pensions, were you?

Well, you go right down to the graveyard and you ask those dead politicians to redeem your promises. In the meantime...

Let them eat Twinkies.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 24, 2012 08:35 PM (xSegX)

51 Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:31 PM (0PiQ4)

My mistake. If you are younger than 35 then apply for a Government job and get on with the rest of your life. If you are my age (49) give it up and let it burn. The only job available for me is if I clean up all of the jizz off of the peep booths at the local adult video center.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 08:36 PM (ZOf1l)

52 All we need is a super-flu pandemic and we will be living in the world of The Last Centurion.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 24, 2012 08:36 PM (KCvsd)

53 Are enemies will starve to death before we get hungry.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:36 PM (NIZHJ)

54 Can someoen ban the fuck in comment 10? I mean seriously. If you fucking trolls are going to moby, at least try to sound plausible.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 24, 2012 08:36 PM (++kZl)

55
You think Obama won't pull a FDR and confiscate all precious metals as 'strategic resources' as part of the 'shared sacrifice' Donks have been demanding?
Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at November 24, 2012 08:34 PM (KCvsd)


He'll try.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 08:37 PM (bWwMZ)

56 I'll buy whatever piece of land $30k or so can buy me.

Wouldn't even buy you a space big enough to park a bicycle.

Posted by: Ronster at November 24, 2012 08:38 PM (nQMHQ)

57 That's the trick behind the whole thing, my friend.

There really isn't anything you can do.

What a lot of folks fail to realize is that this isn't an accident. This us the intended outcome the left has been trying to create for a century.

They are evil. Stop pretending otherwise.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 08:38 PM (H1od7)

58
Let them eat Twinkies.



Twinkies? Love em. I should head up to the store and grab a couple.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 24, 2012 08:39 PM (GEICT)

59 Forward!

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 08:39 PM (bWwMZ)

60 He'll try.

With the Progressive Left, there's always an escalation of emergencies and no end of villains to blame.

It's amazing that the people who claim to believe in science cannot apply the scientific method to economics.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 24, 2012 08:39 PM (xSegX)

61 I'm pretty sure the solution our betters in Washington are planning on is inflation - it spreads the misery about in ways the somnambulant public will be unable to pinpoint.

The checks will keep coming. They just won't be worth shit.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 24, 2012 08:39 PM (uhAkr)

62 There is always cannibalism. What's eating you?

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:40 PM (NIZHJ)

63 62 There is always cannibalism. What's eating you?
Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:40 PM (NIZHJ)

Um, I think that's whom is eating you.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:40 PM (3Y7RV)

64 This is why I read zombie books to myself up.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 08:41 PM (bWwMZ)

65 But the golden collective utopia is just beyond the next five year plan.

Posted by: Le Gemarr Theatre at November 24, 2012 08:41 PM (Kflw4)

66 At least the chocolate ration has increased.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:41 PM (NIZHJ)

67 "Those cranks who said to buy gold are looking a hellovalot smarter than I expected"

Unless the gold is shipped to your house, you got nothing. If there's a collapse, the people holding the gold aren't sending it to you.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 24, 2012 08:42 PM (uhAkr)

68
Motherfu....
See here's the problem, at 27 it's basically impossible for me to plan for this shit. Money in the stock market, dwindling quickly. Money in CD based IRAs, not even keeping pace with inflation.
I try to be good, I really do, 5% (plus match) in my wife's retirement fund (I'm in Grad school so there's no such thing) 50% of my check into the savings account (granted, some of that gets spent as we make home repairs, but the point remains.) I'm probably looking at an 11% savings rate when you add up my wife's 401k, match and our savings.
Didn't do the Roths (probably a mistake, but the post tax IRA value was just crap, plus I have to assume I can at least do something with that extra money in the long term that doesn't get just eaten alive on the withdrawl end in 60 years.)
Still it seems like no matter what I do, I can basically settle on being screwed in old age.
At once point I figured with $1.4 million and $0 debt (house paid off, cars paid off, etc.) and perhaps a decent retiree medical plan, one might be able to eek out a decent (if sparse)retirement (the wife and I subsisted on 30k for a while, sometimes less) but now I'm just not so sure, hyperinflation is coming, and I can't possibly find a way to make my money outpace it.

Posted by: tsrblke at November 24, 2012 08:42 PM (GaqMa)

69 On the current trajectory, the government is going to need to get it's hands on a big ole pile of cash, that pile of cash is 401k's. There is simply no way around it.

The first thing they will do is take away the pre-tax nature of the 401k.

The next thing they will do is make early withdrawls so onerous that it would wipe out the value almost completely.

There is simply no way to keep the government funded at it's current level and trajectory.

It's going to crash, the question is when not if.


Posted by: General Woundwort at November 24, 2012 08:42 PM (0fxcV)

70 Wouldn't even buy you a space big enough to park a bicycle.

Posted by: Ronster at November 24, 2012 08:38 PM (nQMHQ)

I've already been looking (I live in Missouri). 30k can get you 20+ acres of land adjoining public land. I would have bought already, but I'm holding out for some live water. Missouri land is cheap--not as cheap as I'd like, but cheap.

Posted by: Palandine at November 24, 2012 08:42 PM (g7D8V)

71 Tagline on email I opened tonight:

Don't keep telling God how big the storm is; tell the storm how big your God is.

Posted by: RushBabe at November 24, 2012 08:43 PM (tQHzJ)

72 Lets see, with Obamacare the gov't now controls your health care. In order to combat climate change the gov't will control your energy consumption. What's left...FOOD! Lets collectivize agriculture, Americans are to fat anyways. It would be easy to convert food stamps into ration cards. Yeah, that's the ticket. That covers the three legs of the tripod.

Posted by: deepred at November 24, 2012 08:43 PM (YmACv)

73 well, yeah they are going with inflation! the only problem is they keep increasing gov't spending exponentially, so . . . any hope of unwinding via inflation is pretty much out of the question for the next few years.

and that's bad.

plus what is the endgame of the dollar devaluation and resulting inflation? I don't think TPTB even know.

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at November 24, 2012 08:43 PM (J6kXj)

74 Samuel Adams, that's one of those "jobs Americans won't do." Government jobs are jobs I won't do. I have had a few of those and they are soul crushing and life-draining. I'd rather just watch it burn.

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:44 PM (0PiQ4)

75 The totalitarian impulse

Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 08:44 PM (XDC0v)

76 I still have all my Obama '08 ammo.

Posted by: weew at November 24, 2012 08:45 PM (ElfHn)

77 Unless the gold is shipped to your house, you got nothing. If there's a
collapse, the people holding the gold aren't sending it to you.


Hell, it's ours even without a collapse

Posted by: JP Morgan, sitting atop the MF Global hoard as a 'fee' at November 24, 2012 08:46 PM (hO9ad)

78 Over at The Blaze, Dr. Doom, Marc Faber, says that despite some problems with fundamentals, he expects S.E. Asia to outperform the world economy. He even has a house in Thailand....

Posted by: Thorvald at November 24, 2012 08:46 PM (1V6Pv)

79 I could see that, Thorvald. You have to do your research with SE Asia but the demographics look really good there longer-term

I'd stick with the Great White North or Down Under, cos I'm a big chicken (unlike Faber)

Posted by: BlackOrchid-StillMissingDagny at November 24, 2012 08:47 PM (J6kXj)

80 Alaska or somewhere down in the South seems about right for me.

Leaning towards Palin-land.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 08:47 PM (bWwMZ)

81 Am I wrong in thinking comment 10 should be deleted and banned or something?

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 24, 2012 08:48 PM (++kZl)

82 Yes, Pink, you are

Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 08:49 PM (XDC0v)

83 My friend called me very recently, concerned about rumors of the gubmint grabbing 401ks based on something he read.

He's in a high income bracket, so I told him to yank his money now would cost him 50% of his savings. Because as of Jan. 1st, his tax rate on each additional $ will be 39.4% plus the 10% early withdrawal penalty. He's fucked. Even if he did it today, it would cost him 45%.

Face it though, what they are doing is a slow hidden tax bleed on savings. You earn under 2% on your savings in interest bearing accounts, while the true cost of living is going up 5% or more per year. Your saved dollars are bleeding off at a rate of 3% or more, every year.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 08:49 PM (ccXZP)

84 I just got back from spending the last few days at a friends cabin in the middle of the 1000 acres he's got.

He's gone off the grid. He paid off all his debt and liquidated his holdings. He's got his house in the city on the market. He grows his own crops, hunts for meat, and just installed wood burning stoves in the cabin

He's an economist by training and worked in finance and capital markets. He says the shit is going to hit the fan much sooner most think

He really scared the shit out of me by making me realize how unprepared I am.

Posted by: Albie Damned at November 24, 2012 08:49 PM (Yhu4q)

85 The deer will survive the Zombie Apocalypse.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:49 PM (NIZHJ)

86 81 Am I wrong in thinking comment 10 should be deleted and banned or something?
Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 24, 2012 08:48 PM (++kZl)

I don't find it horrible. It's not a lie.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:49 PM (3Y7RV)

87 Hello 'rons and 'ettes-
It's my one-month anniversary at AoS. I have been simply lurking for the last week. I had the Friday before off, and got pretty drunk and stayed up too late in the Thursday ONOT and got kinda melodramatic and mushy.
But, I'm back in the game...

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 08:50 PM (mkb9H)

88 @79 Then again idea that Thailand may have the highest LB/HM* ratio in the known universe may attract some interest. It won't lead to Strangelovian repopulation, of course.
*Lady Boy/Heterosexual Male

Posted by: Thorvald at November 24, 2012 08:50 PM (1V6Pv)

89 I've already been looking (I live in Missouri). 30k can get you 20+ acres of land adjoining public land. I would have bought already, but I'm holding out for some live water. Missouri land is cheap--not as cheap as I'd like, but cheap.
Posted by: Palandine at November 24, 2012 08:42 PM (g7D8V)


That sounds reasonable. Maybe I should be checking that out myself.

Posted by: Ronster at November 24, 2012 08:50 PM (nQMHQ)

90 Notre Dame scores!!!

10-0

Posted by: Scott Walker fan at November 24, 2012 08:50 PM (OOW33)

91 Four or five dollars have been promised for every dollar actually available.

We're living in The Producers, with 50% less Ha Ha.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 24, 2012 08:50 PM (QupBk)

92 Oh, and ROLL TIDE, ROLL!

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 24, 2012 08:50 PM (QupBk)

93 Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 08:44 PM (0PiQ4)

Well, you've gained my respect but I hope your sanity is not compromised. Right now in all honesty, there is not much out there. I honestly felt and hoped that there would be a lot out there if the election would have gone the other way, even for a 49 year old fuck. Now there isn't, good luck in your endeavors. I have degenerative arthritis in my lower back and can't even tie my own shoes without help. I think I will let it burn and apply for disability because I just don't see a future for me anymore and I have to think about my family. Let. It. Fucking. Burn.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 08:51 PM (ZOf1l)

94 Irish 10; Trojans 0

Mwaaa haa haa, mine is an evil laugh...

Posted by: Palandine at November 24, 2012 08:51 PM (g7D8V)

95 Don't keep telling God how big the storm is; tell the storm how big your God is.

Posted by: RushBabe at November 24, 2012 08:43 PM (tQHzJ)

God is bigger than the wave. But sometimes the wave has to be allowed to land, or people will believe there's no such thing as a wave.Which I write as the John Hancock 'complacency is good' ad plays.

Posted by: Methos at November 24, 2012 08:51 PM (hO9ad)

96 I was mainly talking about the "we have to kill the leftists and the islamists" parts.

but hey whatever floats your boat guys.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 24, 2012 08:51 PM (++kZl)

97 #86 Nor is it deliberately inflammatory, nor a conclusion no reasonable person could hold. It by no means meets the standard of a bannable post by any non-LGF rules of acceptable conduct

Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 08:52 PM (XDC0v)

98 I finally went with teh fam' to see Skyfall over the Holiday. Wow is Shanghai the shizzle...built with our money.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 08:53 PM (mkb9H)

99 Marquise Lee has been a bust so far tonight.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 24, 2012 08:54 PM (tkoGU)

100 plus what is the endgame of the dollar devaluation and resulting inflation? I don't think TPTB even know.

Inflation still destroys the stock market. Increasing input costs, which will rise faster than the consumer's willingness to pay for the end product, crush anyone's ability to operate at a profit and eventually stock values will revert to some proportion of earnings.

Posted by: Methos at November 24, 2012 08:54 PM (hO9ad)

101 Palandine, a replay of the 1980 NC game is coming, bet on it.

Posted by: wierdflunky at November 24, 2012 08:54 PM (tlhtD)

102 98
I finally went with teh fam' to see Skyfall over the Holiday. Wow is Shanghai the shizzle...built with our money.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 08:53 PM (mkb9H)
As fucked as we are, never forget that China is even more fucked. Their economy is fake. The only thing we see is what the rulers want us to see.Think we have an entitlement problem? We don't have a one-child policy. Those guys are screwed epically.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 24, 2012 08:55 PM (uhAkr)

103 The fire is coming but we'll call it "spring cleaning."

Posted by: Warthog at November 24, 2012 08:55 PM (OixJo)

104
Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 08:52 PM (XDC0v)
I dunno, I generally try to look at things through the lens of Brandenburg v. Ohio, and that's certainly pushing a line towards "incitement." (IANAL, YMMV, etc.)

Posted by: tsrblke at November 24, 2012 08:55 PM (GaqMa)

105 Only the stupid Republicans tell the truth. Democrats will cut them and be hailed as heros.

Posted by: Alans at November 24, 2012 08:55 PM (V2OI+)

106
but hey whatever floats your boat guys.
Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 24, 2012 08:51 PM (++kZl)

Bill Ayres, the leftist, already has written and lectured about it being necessary to exterminate 25+ million americans, he's not the the lone ranger. The muzzys? If you don't know how they feel about us you have not been paying attention. You may not have the stomach for it but some of us do.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:56 PM (3Y7RV)

107 >>Irish 10; Trojans 0

Mwaaa haa haa, mine is an evil laugh...


Posted by: Palandine at November 24, 2012 08:51 PM (g7D8V)<<
Brian Kelly will be out-coached tonight

Posted by: Albie Damned at November 24, 2012 08:56 PM (Yhu4q)

108 I was mainly talking about the "we have to kill the leftists and the islamists" parts.

but hey whatever floats your boat guys.
Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 24, 2012 08:51 PM (++kZl)

If he was advocating killing as a solution, well that's one thing.

If he was saying it is inevitable and won't be our fault, that's something else.

I think it was more the former than the latter.

Also, looks like like a drive-by moby.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 08:56 PM (bWwMZ)

109 Well that was a nice play by Lee. The freshman QB has a gun.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 24, 2012 08:56 PM (tkoGU)

110 Pink,

So you have a problem with killing the leftists and muslims who would love to kill us? Don't think for a second that they wouldn't do it if they thought they could get away with it. They really do hate us that much.

Posted by: Deathknyte at November 24, 2012 08:57 PM (6kTkt)

111 What supposedly happened at Penn State is nothing compared to the papist buggery that was denied for decades. Go USC!

Posted by: Jerry Sandusky at November 24, 2012 08:57 PM (wIgpo)

112 Marquise Lee has been a bust so far tonight.


Dayum! Maybe I shoulda named his ass Marcus instead.

Posted by: Shaqueetha Lee at November 24, 2012 08:57 PM (ZOf1l)

113
plus what is the endgame of the dollar devaluation and resulting inflation?

To totally and completely dominate each and every part of your life from the time you awaken until you go to sleep, and even then, you'll dream of your oppressors. You will be reduced to a slathering, formless shell of a human struggling to meet your daily needs, filled with hatred for those who stand between you and your freedom but powerless to do anything about it.

Hell will have finally arrived on Earth. And the truly hellish part is, it never had to happen. We could have had freedom. We could have seen through the lying politicans and removed them from office. We could have retained control over our schools and the media to make sure that the Truth was told to the masses and taught to our children.

But we didn't.We did it to ourselves.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 24, 2012 08:58 PM (lOmbq)

114 Tsr,

Every time leftists have obtained enough power, any where in the world, they have instituted death squads and death camps.

Why is referencing a future conflict ban material?

Every. Single. Time.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 08:59 PM (jKE+l)

115 Later kids.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 24, 2012 08:59 PM (3Y7RV)

116 104 I don't see incitement at all. Anyone who gets incited by something like that is the real danger, not that post. Does saying thatthere will eventually have to be a fight qualify then as "fighting words"? If the consequences are absurd, then so are the premises

Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 08:59 PM (XDC0v)

117
@BackwardsBoy,
Many great republics fall this way. Remember "Bread and Circuses" was a term developed to described the fall of the Roman Republic.

Posted by: tsrblke at November 24, 2012 08:59 PM (GaqMa)

118 It's amazing that the people who claim to believe in science cannot apply the scientific method to economics. Posted by: AmishDude


The Leftdoesn't use the scientific method on science.

Posted by: Puddleglum at November 24, 2012 09:00 PM (15w2J)

119 That Papist buggery pales in comparison to the abuse archipelago of the U.S. public school system. Ever notice how only teacher chicks banging guy students ever makes the news? Come on, people. I know, without ready proof, that the Teacher's Unions have been coddling and cosseting diddlers for decades.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 24, 2012 09:00 PM (tkoGU)

120 The Hector "Macho" Camacho link insists upon itself.

Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at November 24, 2012 09:00 PM (IlZPo)

121 I'm really, really not looking forward to this "managed bankruptcy". The Foundation I work for is focused on human services, and at this point, it looks like there's going to be much more need that we can even start to fulfill.

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:01 PM (mKMj1)

122 Bevel- Yeah, it's fiat money, but (the urban center, and airport, anyway) Shanghai is "modern", with real infrastructure. As our "urban centers" are decaying, or already decrepit. Anyway I really liked the movie. The '62 McCallan was a cool homage to the anniversary of the movies.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:01 PM (mkb9H)

123
@Hopeless @DAve,
Meh, to each his own. However, I prefer to think that we can avoid the killing as much as possible.
I'm an overweight 27 year old on Cholesterol meds, generally speaking anarchy does not bode well for me. (I'm a decent shot. not Sniper decent, but decent enough) so I guess I got that going for me. But as such, perhaps that's why I get...troubled by people who jump straight to the conclusion of "We will fight them to the death!"

Posted by: tsrblke at November 24, 2012 09:02 PM (GaqMa)

124 Well that's what I get for thinking that "macho" will stop a bullet.

Posted by: Zombie Hector Camacho at November 24, 2012 09:03 PM (ZOf1l)

125 My wife had a student with the first name "Cheadrick", pronounced "Cedric". Why bother with the stupid spelling if you're not even going to pronounce it?

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 24, 2012 09:03 PM (tkoGU)

126 Don't forget all the Obama Care shit kicks in in 2014. All the taxes kick in in 38 days.

Not sure if there is any place to hide. NC and SC have completely red governments and they are still fucked because of all the Federal mandates they have to pay. The peoples need their free shit.

I think Texas is in good shape, except for the Hispanic problem.

Best will be the top income tax states, all blue, that will get fucked with the new federal income tax rates.

That is at least a little pay back, asshole Yankees.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the 1% at November 24, 2012 09:03 PM (wR+pz)

127 Radio ads are running telling me I have to call my congressman so we can keep middle class tax increase from automatically happening.



Oh, joy. They admit it is SEIU and NEA at the end of the ads.

Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 09:04 PM (kfC1R)

128 Well, Samuel Adams, I wish I had something uplifting to say to you. Get on disability and when it gets bad, we can watch it burn together. I'll tie your shoes for you too.

Maybe some of these dumbasses need to watch what inflation does over the next 4 yrs and how much less their EBT cards can buy them. Maybe in 4 yrs, we can elect a Reagan. I was never convinced Mitt was the next Reagan. It was a roll of the dice voting for him. I wouldn't have been surprised if he won and then morphed into GWB.

Posted by: L, elle at November 24, 2012 09:05 PM (0PiQ4)

129 Shorter headline: Here's your shit sandwich.

Posted by: huerfano at November 24, 2012 09:06 PM (bAGA/)

130 10-7

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (tkoGU)

131 Legally, Alaska is right next door to D.C.

Physically, it is thousands of miles distant.

When the shit hits the fan the physical distance will rule.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (bWwMZ)

132 The fuck I've accepted the risk that the Feds will effectively confiscate my retirement savings. I may be aware of it but the fuck if that equates to acceptance.


Also I am about 12 hours past my tolerance for family togetherness. Send booze and porn.

Posted by: alexthechick -f u autocorrect at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (yTtpr)

133 tsrblke, Imagine what an extended breakdown of our systems would look like in any major urban area in the U.S. The police are already losing the streets in many urban areas now (Chicago). It's more likely than not.

Posted by: wierdflunky at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (tlhtD)

134 I think you have to distinguish between a financial "fix" authored by people who may really believe Keynesianism could ever work, and an actual appropriation.
As soon as we see the appropriation coming, no matter how it's couched, it may be past time for action. No one, of course, would ever advocate violence at any time for any reason whatsoever. But we get these figures from History: "These men are all talk. What we need is action—action!" --That Vicious Sociopath John Brown, and H.L. Mencken, The Bard of Baltimore: "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
Stock up on ammo, and the stuff you'll need ammo to protect (including ammo).

Posted by: Thorvald at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (1V6Pv)

135 That is at least a little pay back, asshole Yankees.

Don't blame me, I broke my ankle.

Posted by: Derek Jeter at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (ZOf1l)

136 Tsr,

Maybe it's time to get in the best shape of your life?

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (jKE+l)

137 http://www.autoextremist.com/

DeLorenzo dumps on GM's CEO:

"The rest of the industry's executives should give a rousing tip of the
hat to Akerson, because Akerson is so ill-equipped for his role, so
caustic to GM's employees, so relentlessly out of step with the True
Believers holding GM together that he can't help but make every other
auto company executive look positively regal.

Remember, Akerson
is the guy who reminds anyone who will listen that he finds this entire
industry to be a relentless joke and mere child's play compared to the
weightier, go-go issues that his favored telecom industry faces on a
daily basis and on a much grander scale as well, by his estimation. He
hates cars, hates the car business, thinks anyone can be a product guru
(even him) and he can't wait to reimagine GM in his own likeness so he
can get the hell out of here and go do something worthwhile with his
life."

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (rzTDZ)

138 At the current spending rate coupled with the contraction of GDP and inflation skyrocketing, everything breaks in the summer of 2015.

Book it!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (0fxcV)

139 Billy Bob-
I too am a North Carolinian. Sorry 'bout our Panthers. I saw you have given up your seats for the balance. I was surprised at the county-by-county in SC, with Columbia and the coast around Charleston being blue. Mecklenburg Co. and the Socialist Republic around the Triangle, however, was expected.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:08 PM (mkb9H)

140 #123 Well, to an extent your hopes to avoid the violence are informed by your self-crippling for it, but I don't know anyone at all who has "jumped straight" to that conclusion... just call it a long tearing-off of the blinders of denial. How much evidence that we are already in a war do you need? Your enemies have boldly and loudly declared it and yet most of this country insists that everything is fine as long as American Idol's gonna be better than ever this season. It's a far thing from incitement to encourage people to wake up and get ready

Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 09:08 PM (XDC0v)

141 You fucked up. You trusted a government.
Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 08:33 PM (OQpzc

We never walked on the moon,
Elvis aint dead,
you aint goin`crazy'
I`ts all in your head.

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 24, 2012 09:09 PM (RCzDO)

142 Our future isn't Mad Max, it's post-Soviet Russia.

Gangsters in power, demagoguery, and a crash in standard of living.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 24, 2012 09:09 PM (uhAkr)

143 Notre Dame is playing on what network?

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 09:10 PM (NIZHJ)

144 Does any of the horde ever comment on your local newspaper's comments?


I do occasionally and I am always amazed at the stupid and the hate of the liberals when they are ever questioned. Incoherent would be polite. Questioning them about anything only get a rant.

Pretty sad.


Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:10 PM (wR+pz)

145 It's almost as if everything that happened since at least the 60s (30s, 20s, etc.) was not all that well thought out... perhaps some sort of giant clusterfuck, and now "teh chickens are coming home to roost."


Later.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 24, 2012 09:10 PM (vIRPd)

146 L, elle EBT cards will receive regular cost-of-living increases to solve that problem. Wages, on the other hand...

Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 09:10 PM (XDC0v)

147 Taxes will go up and spending will go up.

The GOP is a hopeless pile of junk and it is foolish to count on it for a damn thing.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 09:11 PM (bWwMZ)

148 Also I am about 12 hours past my tolerance for family togetherness. Send booze and porn.

Posted by: alexthechick -f u autocorrect

Forwarding wine, grand marnier and laphroaig single-malt scotch!

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:11 PM (mKMj1)

149 ammo, dude, have plenty of ammo.



Posted by: Jake in ID at November 24, 2012 09:12 PM (2CiZb)

150 I just got back from T-Giving road trip without internet and cable. Probably the last. To much effort.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 09:13 PM (NIZHJ)

151 @139

Columbia was blue because of students and black vote. Charleston because of black vote and Yankee transfers.

Remember Charleston has a Black Republican Congressman, thanks to some good gerrymandering!

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:13 PM (wR+pz)

152 EBT cards will receive regular cost-of-living increases to solve that problem. Wages, on the other hand...

I couldn't even qualify for that. Sucks to be me.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:14 PM (ZOf1l)

153 Also I am about 12 hours past my tolerance for family togetherness. Send booze and porn.

Posted by: alexthechick -f u autocorrect at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (yTtpr)


http://tinyurl.com/c6kuatz

Posted by: Methos at November 24, 2012 09:14 PM (hO9ad)

154 Dave,

I'd like to also discuss food.

In the run up to the election, a lot of folks missed that this year's ag harvest was down 30% because of the drought.

And the drought is showing no signs of abating. Absent the wettest winter on record. The Mississippi will cease to flow by June of 2013, and we may be looking at catastophic crop failure across the Midwest.

We are approaching Very. Bad. Things.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:14 PM (NKWFJ)

155 EBT cards should probably be renamed "the Basic Living Stipend."

Everyone who read David Weber, raise your hands.

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:15 PM (mKMj1)

156 ABC

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 24, 2012 09:15 PM (tkoGU)

157 @139

Hey, at least Pat won. I might go to Raleigh to work for him. We'll see.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:15 PM (wR+pz)

158
Maybe some of these dumbasses need to watch what inflation does over the next 4 yrs and how much less their EBT cards can buy them.

Anyone with two functioning neurons to rub together already knows what happened the last four years: Gasoline prices doubled, grocery prices are through the roof. The bottom line is that inflation is running around 8% per year.

This is not what we're being told. We're told that it's running at less than 1%. That is the Official Party Line. And the Mewling Masses never doubt what they're told.

We're beyond fucked. The Dims have done everything in their power to reduce us to this, and we've let them do it. They gave away our whole manufacturing sector to the rest of the world instead of encouraging them to develop their own manufacturing. They concocted the lie of "man made global warming" to guilt the Idiocracy into doing what normally couldn't be done to a well-educated populace.

We should get ready for "Ow, My Balls" coming soon to a theater near you. That and President Camacho.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 24, 2012 09:15 PM (lOmbq)

159 131
Legally, Alaska is right next door to D.C.



Physically, it is thousands of miles distant.



When the shit hits the fan the physical distance will rule.

Posted by: eman at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (bWwMZ)


===
After a financial meltdown it will be a real tough place to feed yourself on a long term basis unless you have really impressive outdoor skills.

Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 09:15 PM (kfC1R)

160 ammo, dude, have plenty of ammo.

I have enough to take out those who intend to take me out until they have enough backup to finally take me out. Unless you plan on joining a militia, how much more ammo do you need.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:16 PM (ZOf1l)

161 156
ABC


To late, the booze store is closed now and on Sunday.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:16 PM (wR+pz)

162 @149

Ammo will not be enough, you will have to form alliances with like minded individuals in your community or make preperations to join said communities when the SHTF™

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 24, 2012 09:16 PM (0fxcV)

163 Sam,

What state are you in? Ice been following your posts for a bit now. FWIW you've been in my prayers.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:16 PM (NKWFJ)

164 If they acknowledge inflation they have to pay colas. Lying saves money.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 09:16 PM (NIZHJ)

165 We should get ready for "Ow, My Balls" coming soon to a theater near you.

Have you seen any of the Jackass movies?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 24, 2012 09:17 PM (uhAkr)

166 #154 Hopeless - Please cite a time in history (and we've had some incredibly severe droughts) when the Mississippi ceased to flow?

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:17 PM (mKMj1)

167 I couldn't even qualify for that. Sucks to be me.
Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:14 PM (ZOf1l)

If you get on SSI, you automatically qualify for it. Saw that on fox today when they were discussing the DHS pimping SSI for new immigrants on the DHS website.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:17 PM (OQpzc)

168 Ohio Gun shows. No permit, no registration. You get what you pay cash for.

Posted by: simpleton at November 24, 2012 09:17 PM (za3QZ)

169 @162 WOLVERINES!

Posted by: Thorvald at November 24, 2012 09:18 PM (1V6Pv)

170 AtC- I understand that "having reached tolerance" for family. We just returned home from a 8 hour road trip back "from where I come from". We had a good time and the cons and libs kinda' self-segregated this year, so it was tolerable. I had promised my Mom that I would not broach politics myself, but if any of my cousins started - I was going to be "unbehaved". Luckily, I didn't have to choke the s*#t out of anybody.. All's well that ends relatively polite. So far...

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:18 PM (mkb9H)

171
If SHTF there will be a breakup of the USA, and breakups within states. There is no way 300 million productive, responsible people are going to let ourselves lose everything and end up slaves to 50 million people who want to live in a third world shithole in LA, Chicago, Philly, DC, New York, Boston, Cleveland, etc. That Argentina shit ain't gonna happen here.

So I think there will be some severe turbulence for a time, but the USA will survive in some form.

Posted by: rockmom at November 24, 2012 09:18 PM (qe2/V)

172 Everyone who read David Weber, raise your hands.
Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:15 PM (mKMj1)

Republic of Haven?

Go Manitcore!!!121!!!!

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:19 PM (OQpzc)

173 The Mississippi will cease to flow by June of 2013 ---


=====

put down that glue and get to a well ventilated location.

Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 09:19 PM (kfC1R)

174 And the drought is showing no signs of abating. Absent the wettest winter on record. The Mississippi will cease to flow by June of 2013, and we may be looking at catastophic crop failure across the Midwest. We are approaching Very. Bad. Things.
Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:14 PM (NKWFJ)

BULLSHIT

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 24, 2012 09:19 PM (RCzDO)

175 And if you're really lucky, their bodies fall into the flaming moat on the downwind side.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 24, 2012 09:20 PM (1V6Pv)

176 There's no play by play.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 09:20 PM (NIZHJ)

177 #172 - Invictus, you clever person! Yes!

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:21 PM (mKMj1)

178 @174 I can ride my bicycle down to the shore and piss in it every morning. I'd be glad to do so, in fact!

Posted by: Thorvald at November 24, 2012 09:21 PM (1V6Pv)

179 @173
put down that glue and get to a well ventilated location.


Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 09:19 PM (kfC1R)


The wrong week.




http://tinyurl.com/286fdfy

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:21 PM (wR+pz)

180 Farmland. Self sufficiency in energy and food and
self protection. Don't put shit where the gubmint can easily put their
hands on it.

...


Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 08:29 PM (ccXZP)


Sounds good except you can't relocate land, so the goobermint will get it anyway by way of you not being able to afford the tax rate they'll slap on you.

Personally I'm looking into rail-riding and chicken thieving to make my living once the depression hits. What the hell, you hunt them long enough you can figure out where they go and how they get caught...so you can maybe learn from their mistakes and duck the hobo hunters.

did i say that out loud...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 24, 2012 09:22 PM (DaUUd)

181 I will not only survive, I will render the remaining zombie fat into candles to help light the maps I will use to make plans to hurl my mutant armies at the commie strongholds. They must be banished from this earth.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:22 PM (OQpzc)

182 Obamacare will take care of all those elders sucking up the Social Security.

"Have a pain pill, dear."

Posted by: PJ at November 24, 2012 09:22 PM (ZWaLo)

183 Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:17 PM (OQpzc)

I was the breadwinner, but my wife makes 32K gross a year. I do not qualify for SSI, EBT or anything else. I either have to hope to get a job (I average about 10 resumes submitted a week) or get disability. These are the only choices I have. BTW I'm from Kansas.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:23 PM (ZOf1l)

184
Posted by: wierdflunky at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (tlhtD)
Meh, this is why I live in the suburbs frankly. But my safety wall is largely due to higher standards of living, dunno what happens when those crash.
(Have you ever noticed all the Black Friday mobbage happens in areas with low incomes and low education? Yeah life works like that.)
@Hopeless,
Ironically this is the best shape I've been in since I was a wrester Frosh year in highschool. I had some (then unknown) knee issues which were made worse by an injury in a match. So I lost weight, but the combination of that (plus the genetics) isn't good for me.
I've made peace with the fact that I'll likely die in my 50s

Posted by: tsrblke at November 24, 2012 09:23 PM (GaqMa)

185 Don't forget it's well established precedent that you aren't actually entitled to your entitlements. The GM bondholders had actual legal rights and look what happened to them.

Posted by: alexthechick -f u autocorrect at November 24, 2012 09:23 PM (yTtpr)

186 #172 - Invictus, you clever person! Yes!
Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:21 PM (mKMj1)

The Salamander will be my fleet admiral.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:23 PM (OQpzc)

187 Four or five dollars have been promised for every dollar actually available.

Posted by Ace at 08:15 PM Comments
-------------------------------------------------------------
And the problem is.........

Posted by: Preznit Urkel X at November 24, 2012 09:23 PM (jucos)

188 Isn't Mussberger supposed to say stupid shit while they play the game?

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 09:24 PM (NIZHJ)

189 Dianna,

It hasn't before. That's how serious the drought is. It's not me saying this, its the core of engineers. The platte river has already run dry, the Missouri is now being flow regulated super right to prevent it from running dry. Barge traffic has been severely impeded and had to be halted several times this year bc it was so shallow.

Without the wettest winter on record, the river us expected to go dry in key areas like around Memphis by June.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:24 PM (q7YYY)

190 GGE- Glad your here. My teenage boys are ready to start a rabbit hutch and chix at my pop's in the NC Mtns., and road killing all these damn squirrels in teh neighborhood.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:25 PM (mkb9H)

191 A good and decent man builds true friends.

Romney aides fed up with bullshit.

http://bit.ly/10tTr96

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 24, 2012 09:26 PM (piMMO)

192 These are the only choices I have. BTW I'm from Kansas.
Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:23 PM (ZOf1l)

Divorce her, and tell them you are renting a room. You have to play by the rules of the table.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:26 PM (OQpzc)

193 182
Obamacare will take care of all those elders sucking up the Social Security.

"Have a pain pill, dear."


Posted by: PJ

It would take them a few years to get there, but...yes. I think that's what would happen.

All those "physician assisted suicide" bills? Did you really think that it would remain suicide?

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:26 PM (mKMj1)

194 Romney aides fed up with bullshit.

These guys really, really shouldn't ever talk again.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 24, 2012 09:27 PM (uhAkr)

195 tsrblke So you're safe from the violence and mayhem in the city because you live in the suburb? What exactly is "Plan B"?

Posted by: wierdflunky at November 24, 2012 09:27 PM (tlhtD)

196 Unless you plan on joining a militia, how much more ammo do you need.

Trade good. Brass will be better than silver dimes.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 24, 2012 09:28 PM (QupBk)

197 #189 - Hopeless - I have family near Memphis, and not one bleat like that has come out from them - and it would have.

I would like to see the linkage you have, please.

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:29 PM (mKMj1)

198 Trade good. Brass will be better than silver dimes.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 24, 2012 09:28 PM (QupBk)

I figure we can fail all the way back to black powder and I'm still good. Almost screwed up and got a percussion Hawkens. Flintlock made more sense.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:30 PM (OQpzc)

199 Divorce her, and tell them you are renting a room. You have to play by the rules of the table.
Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:26 PM (OQpzc)

I'll suck a rich man's dick first before I give up my wife, although that was kind of funny. Look, I'm whining but I'm not trying to whine more than I should. I will never give up even if I am crippled. My biggest point was that this country felt that American Idol was way more important than improving their lot in life. As far as I am concerned, including most of my family, those who supported Obama this time around can die in a fucking fire for all I care. I'll go with "get off my lawn" bitter than with constant whining.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:31 PM (ZOf1l)

200
A DOOM post!? Nice!

I've seen estimates that tens of thousands of Americans, mostly 'rich'with citizenship elsewhere, are moving back to home countries and dropping off of the US government radar. That's why the IRS has been threatening people living overseas 'reminding' them to pay their taxes or else suffer the penalties and the kicks in the privates. By dropping off the radar, they avoid the 'exit taxes' the US now imposes on anyone daring to leave.

I think we'll see a continued depreciation of the American dollar to try to meet all of the obligations. $145 Trillion in IOU's is only $14.5 Trillion when your dollar is worth one-tenth of what it was.

Posted by: Stateless_Infidel at November 24, 2012 09:31 PM (AC0lD)

201 Samuel Adams, I thought you had landed a new job. I hope nothing went tits up on that. Now back on topic --

Look, it probably isn't as dire as it sounds. At the same time, some effort spent on preparing for harder times is a prudent thing to do. If nothing else, there is a feeling of satisfaction in being better prepared than about 99% of the US populace.

As a case in point, look at the 'victims' of Sandy. People were dumpster diving for food within 3 days of the storm's end. Now, if you are stupid enough to not have 2 weeks of food on hand, my pity level for you approaches zero asymptotically with your level of unreadiness.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 09:31 PM (ccXZP)

202 Personally I'm looking into rail-riding and chicken thieving to make my living once the depression hits.

Harder to track down a moving target...

First, they'll demonize/criminalize the prepers so they can be arrested and reduced. Anything resembling the tiniest kernel of resistance will be unmercifully crushed.

Preparation for the collapse will be deemed "unpatriotic", classified as "hoarding", etc, etc. Anti-hoarding laws will be enacted. Hoarders have been vilified in the past. They will be again.


Posted by: Winston Smith at November 24, 2012 09:32 PM (IwZQw)

203 Along the mayhem line...a high cap (14) bullpup shotgun from keltec

http://tinyurl.com/c45yk8b

Posted by: redclay at November 24, 2012 09:32 PM (+PlLU)

204 Romney aides fed up with bullshit.
-
"Believe in America", indeed. Yes, Matt Rhoades, Beth Myers, Pete Flaherty, Eric Fehrnstrohm, Stuart Stevens, et al. Should. Never. Raise. Their. Heads. Again. Ever....Epic Fail!

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:33 PM (mkb9H)

205
Posted by: wierdflunky at November 24, 2012 09:27 PM (tlhtD)
I said "Safe now" and "not sure what happens when the standard of living crashes."
Plan B? Don't got one. If things get so bad there's rioting and looting spread out amongst the entire area? Meh, I'll likely die of starvation and/or violence regardless of the level of planning I took anyway. I'm trying to roll with the punches. (So far I'm doing pretty good on that.)
If time allows I have friends with signficiant property in the more rural areas of both states I live near, and family on the side of mountain, I'm sure I could retreat to one of those areas. (Granted the family is pot smoking hippies, so I'd prefer not to do that.)

Posted by: tsrblke at November 24, 2012 09:33 PM (GaqMa)

206 There's a lot of ruin in a nation. We can drag along for a couple of decades yet.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 24, 2012 09:33 PM (QupBk)

207 I thought Issac pretty much put the water level back up.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:34 PM (wR+pz)

208 You think you are being called a racist? The future of state-sponsored racism is at the link in my sig.

Posted by: Truman North at November 24, 2012 09:34 PM (I2LwF)

209 Sure they can get 80 million people on food stamps but, they only get the rations of 20 million people. You are entitled to it, they just will not say how much and then blame the Republicans when what you get does not even buy you a loaf of bread.

Sure you can have a free house. It only comes in grey concrete and the bars on the windows are needed for your protection. But you are entitled to it.

Sure you can get free heath care,just fill out the 80 pages form and wait until it is your turn in a orderly fashion. You are entitled to it but as the republicans made it hard for some reason, you have to wait. But it will be free when you see your assigned doctor.

Sure you can have free birth control, they just taste like tic tacs for a
new favor that you are entitled to them. If they fail your free
abortion will be provided in the 4th trimester and then the tissue will be removed from their crib at no cost to you.

Posted by: Trevor (@TJexcite) at November 24, 2012 09:35 PM (Ea64Y)

210 trsblke Make friends with the hippies!

Posted by: wierdflunky at November 24, 2012 09:35 PM (tlhtD)

211 Now, if you are stupid enough to not have 2 weeks of food on hand, my pity level for you approaches zero asymptotically with your level of unreadiness.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 09:31 PM (ccXZP)



In all fairness, you could have two years worth of food stored, but if it all gets washed out to sea, you're gonna be dumpster diving along with those who weren't prepared.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 24, 2012 09:35 PM (cQPiF)

212 @203

Shotgun? We don't need no shotguns. I have one of these! and the pistol!



http://tinyurl.com/354hud

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:36 PM (wR+pz)

213 Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 09:31 PM (ccXZP)

I did and was happy as fuck. Apparently it was a contest between 3 people for one slot that I wasn't aware of when I was hired. I worked 10 hours a day and my back gave out but I wouldn't give up, however I couldn't keep up. There is a 90 day rule that says you can be gone without any legal reprisal and I had apparently lost the contest. Never in my life had I been let go from a job, even as a kid. That's tough to handle.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:37 PM (ZOf1l)

214 vilified in the past. They will be again.
Posted by: Winston Smith at November 24, 2012 09:32 PM (IwZQw)

I repeat, they can't take it if they can't find it. Distributed caches mean you don't have to die to protect any one of them. Geez, this isn't rocket surgery.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 09:37 PM (OQpzc)

215 GGE- Glad your here. My teenage boys are ready to
start a rabbit hutch and chix at my pop's in the NC Mtns., and road
killing all these damn squirrels in teh neighborhood.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:25 PM (mkb9H)


I don't think you can ever decrease the skwerl population to below critical mass. 7.62x54R is a bit much for skwerl but I have enough of that for the average Russian peasant to get through WW2. I've heard that FMJ isn't really what you want to hunt hoofed rat with, but I figure if I ever gotta do it the caliber and powder load should make up for the FMJ thing. As far as skwerls go...I got a .22 and plenty of ammo for it, so I should be good for a while at least.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 24, 2012 09:37 PM (DaUUd)

216 In all fairness, you could have two years
worth of food stored, but if it all gets washed out to sea, you're gonna
be dumpster diving along with those who weren't prepared.





Posted by: Tammy al-Thor

That's pretty much what I was thinking, yes. Thank you for saying it.

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:38 PM (mKMj1)

217 Let if fucking burn.

Posted by: maddogg at November 24, 2012 09:40 PM (Xa7Hb)

218 Thank god I drank like a fish and did not save one red fucking cent!!!

And everybody said I would be broke in my old age!

Welcome to the club!!

At least I had fun!!!

Posted by: Killerdog at November 24, 2012 09:40 PM (Oi60j)

219 211 Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 24, 2012 09:35 PM (cQPiF)

Tammy, if your home was subject to immediate flooding as was pre-warned for nearly a week and you didn't get out, my sympathy meter still ain't budging an iota.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 09:40 PM (ccXZP)

220 ND leading 16-10 headed into halftime. Tight game.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 24, 2012 09:42 PM (tkoGU)

221 "Believe in America", indeed. Yes, Matt Rhoades, Beth Myers, Pete Flaherty, Eric Fehrnstrohm, Stuart Stevens, et al. Should. Never. Raise. Their. Heads. Again. Ever....Epic Fail!


****

Although none of the folks you mention are named in the article, I share the view of those quoted that Jindal is a fucking snake.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 24, 2012 09:42 PM (piMMO)

222 A working Macho link http://is.gd/wsypqN

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 24, 2012 09:42 PM (QupBk)

223 Dianna,

Do your own research. I guess tge media would have to make things more well known for your Memphis kin to hear?

Like they do with all the other bad news? Like our yearly food harvest being down 30%?

St. Louis is already lower than has ever been recorded. By dec 10 it will be at -5 feet in STL, 5 feet lower than ever recorded, a catastrophic crippling of barge traffic.

In order to stop the Missouri-- the MISSOURI --from going dry, the core of engineers is slowing it's output to a trickle north of Omaha.

Without the wettest winter on record barge traffic will be halted entirely by June, and STL, Memphis and Vicksburg may well see a dry river bed.

Absent tremendous moisture, there might be a catastrophic crop loss across the Midwest in 2013.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:43 PM (oYccn)

224 Preparation for the collapse will be deemed
"unpatriotic", classified as "hoarding", etc, etc. Anti-hoarding laws
will be enacted. Hoarders have been vilified in the past. They will be
again.




Posted by: Winston Smith at November 24, 2012 09:32 PM (IwZQw)


You will be able to hold out for a while, until the federal police get there to smoke you out and kill you dead. Your hoard will be immediately confiscated by the same federales who will hand out the best to the politicos and dole the rest out to the masses...and then the mobs will eat their seeds...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 24, 2012 09:43 PM (DaUUd)

225 Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 09:40 PM (ccXZP)

I was just coming on to say that, Gnu, LOL!

Storm that big, when you have warning for a week...gotta leave.


Mind you, no one on my family ever evacuated, so I understand why people don't. At least in the South we have enough sense to take the food and good furniture upstairs!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 24, 2012 09:43 PM (cQPiF)

226 Four or five dollars have been promised for every dollar actually available.




I have been led to understand that they will make up for it in volume.

Posted by: s☺mej☼e at November 24, 2012 09:44 PM (HNn1q)

227 Daniel Tosh coaches USC?

Posted by: USS Diversity at November 24, 2012 09:44 PM (9ghZ6)

228 Look, it probably isn't as dire as it sounds.


You're right. It's worse. Math. Wins. Math will always win. The WINNING!!!! that Math will do to the United States budget as the Boomers hit retirement age has been known for, what, 40 years? This is not a surprise and this is not unknown and the consequences are well established and fairly easily quantifiable.

The money is not there and will not be there absent some actions that are pretty damn horrific to contemplate. There will be default, in effect if not in name, and there will be massive cuts to Social Security and Medicare, whatever form those cuts will take.


I have never ever been joking about being on Team Meteor.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 24, 2012 09:44 PM (yTtpr)

229 208
You think you are being called a racist? The future of state-sponsored racism is at the link in my sig.

This is not news to anyone who has adopted trans-racially or internationally in the past 30 years. We adopted our son from Guatemala, and you would not believe the number of times we were accused of having "white privilege" and "underlying racism." They even asked us questions like, "Do you know where to buy ethnic hair care products?" As if a Mayan indian boy needs that, or as if no white person had ever passed that part of the hair products aisle at Walgreens.
The entire "social work" sector exists to foster this sort of crap, so that they can justify their jobs, and adopting parents just have to take it or get turned down for adoption.
So all those idiots who claim that nobody adopts children who are NOT aborted, are the same idiots who make it impossible to do just that. Cluster all around.

Posted by: tcn at November 24, 2012 09:44 PM (VLG62)

230 GGE-
.410/.22 over-under for the rodents. But we have been practicing at 75 feet with pellet guns (between corn-hole games) at Dad's, because it's dirt cheap, and good scope practice. I'm buying the 'rents a hand pump for the well for Christmas.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:45 PM (mkb9H)

231 Romney aides fed up with bullshit.

http://bit.ly/10tTr96
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 24, 2012 09:26 PM (piMMO)

They are turncoats! Thanks for link.

Posted by: CarolT at November 24, 2012 09:45 PM (z4WKX)

232 The way I look at my future is this. I have paid into SS since I was 15 (34 years) and I am a Veteran. I will promise the Government that if they give me the percentage I am entitled to now, then I will promise them that I will blow my brains out when I turn 65. Win-win for all.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:45 PM (ZOf1l)

233 Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 09:37 PM (ZOf1l)

Shit man, damn sorry to hear that. Yeah, almost all employers have the '90 day rule'. Still, it sounds like you were misled and that sucks, period.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 24, 2012 09:45 PM (ccXZP)

234 #223 - Hopeless, you're the one crying the apocalypse, not me.

Bring your evidence.

We had massive flooding along the Mississippi and Missouri and Ohio rivers just three years ago and again (not as severe) two. Tell me how it is the aquifers are drained. I do not see what you're claiming. Where should I be looking?

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:46 PM (mKMj1)

235 What an up beat post

Posted by: Alex at November 24, 2012 09:46 PM (aPAIU)

236 Well, to add a little positive shit. My sons don't seem to concerned about it. Course, they are smart as shit, both have masters and have jobs and actually saved money from their summer jobs.


I've also put every fucking thing I own in a family LLC which they will get if I don't spend it all before I head to the big ranch in the sky. They own the mortgage on my house, so I am forced to pay them interest. They have whole life insurance, maybe the last way to hide assets.

We are all Eagle Scouts. BE PREPARED! We are.


Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:46 PM (wR+pz)

237 I stopped putting $ in my 401(k) when the JEF was elected, even though my company was still matching it. I expected them to do this, glad I put in regular bank account. Took a lot out to put deposit on new car last year and had to get a mortgage on my house, but I'm going to keep putting it in savings account. I don't care if I get 2 cents interest a month.

Posted by: CarolT at November 24, 2012 09:47 PM (z4WKX)

238 Dianna, I have been hearing similar stuff on the news here in NorthArk. I keep wondering how after all the flooding the last few years it could be that bad, but I am hearing it.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 24, 2012 09:48 PM (cQPiF)

239 From the comments in the article, Truth is a glorious but hard mistress. She never consults, bargains or compromises.—Aiden Wilson Tozer

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 24, 2012 09:49 PM (awHEB)

240 http://www.drought.noaa.gov/

Posted by: fluffy at November 24, 2012 09:49 PM (z9HTb)

241 BTW, ladies? Things to stock up on - and it's easy enough - tampons, panti-liners, and midol (the blessed substance that allows me to survive each month). Just buy two of the jumbo boxes every time. It allows you to stock up, and it will save your sanity if things ever get seriously bad.

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:49 PM (mKMj1)

242 In all fairness, you could have two years worth of food stored, but if it all gets washed out to sea, you're gonna be dumpster diving along with those who weren't prepared.
To be fair, the large majority of those people did not have any food washed out to sea.

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 24, 2012 09:50 PM (RCzDO)

243 NDH-
By my read Bobby J. and Marco R. are in/un -eligible - NBC and whatnot. The same way the JEF is STILL un-eligable for the office. (and PS I think Mittens was too).

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:50 PM (mkb9H)

244 I don't know if I can stay up for the Clemson game. If you've ever been to Clemson, just think of those poor bastards trying to get home after the game is over, around 11.

Not fun.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:50 PM (wR+pz)

245
Now, this is just funny. Y'all are telling me that after a lifetime of rising above being an Appalachian woods rat I should revert? THAT is irony on steroids.

Posted by: irongrampa at November 24, 2012 09:51 PM (SAMxH)

246 The preacherman says it's the end of times


And the Mississippi River is goin' dry


Year before last they had record floods. FTR, I just googled your premise and found that it's mostly the Ronulans and Freepers and Alex Jones that are predicting the river running dry. We've had dry summers before and we will have dry summers again, one year isn't going to make a huge bunch of difference.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 24, 2012 09:51 PM (DaUUd)

247 @240

Linky no worky.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:52 PM (wR+pz)

248 Dianna, check my URL for an article on problems experienced last summer. The info on the Missouri/STL will pop up on a google news search, as they're very recent news.

That will give you a start

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:52 PM (oYccn)

249 What can we actually do to avoid being wiped out financially?

Truthfully - nothing.

Posted by: Queequeg the Harpooner at November 24, 2012 09:52 PM (p4U6S)

250 My favorite rock group Kiss wrote a song once:

Burn bitch burn, - and there's nothin' you can do

Burn bitch burn, - so don't burn your bridges

Burn bitch burn - we're all through,

we are all through baby, so just burn

Posted by: Paul Stanley at November 24, 2012 09:52 PM (PALjS)

251 238
Dianna, I have been hearing similar stuff on the news here in NorthArk. I
keep wondering how after all the flooding the last few years it could
be that bad, but I am hearing it.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor

I'm seeing concerns about continuing droughth; I'm seeing concerns about irrigation affecting the navigability of sections of the rivers. I'm not seeing whole-sale panic.

I'm not sure where some of this is coming from, and my sense of history is saying we're panicking past what's real.

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:53 PM (mKMj1)

252 I think we can blame river levels on L'il Barry. After all, "This was the moment..." http://preview.tinyurl.com/cds8eku
from 0:14 to about 0:21. I can't watch the whole thing. He reminds me of Louis Farrakhan.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 24, 2012 09:54 PM (1V6Pv)

253 Also I am about 12 hours past my tolerance for family togetherness. Send booze and porn.
Posted by: alexthechick -f u autocorrect at November 24, 2012 09:07 PM (yTtpr)

How much longer do you have to go? I'll send out a courier STAT!

Here's something for now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buRngIbZS2E

(booze, not pron).

Posted by: elizabethe at November 24, 2012 09:55 PM (s765P)

254 To be fair, when New Madrid goes off again and the Mighty Miss begins flowing backwards again, there will be parts that are very dry indeed.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 24, 2012 09:55 PM (yTtpr)

255 I agree, I think it's more about the barges not being able to get around. Which would pretty much suck.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 24, 2012 09:55 PM (cQPiF)

256 Google---- Pro Anthropogenic caused Global Catastrophic Climate Change.

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 24, 2012 09:56 PM (RCzDO)

257 ManBearPig says the seas are rising.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 09:56 PM (NIZHJ)

258 Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:49 PM (mKMj1)

And multi-vitamins.

Posted by: CDR M at November 24, 2012 09:56 PM (dKV5k)

259 #248 - Hopeless - Got it open in a new tab. Will read the Discovery News article and follow any links.

Thanks.

And it's "Corps of Engineers". A "core" is a center, like an apple's. That's one of those mistakes that makes me grind my teeth.

Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:56 PM (mKMj1)

260 I remember when I was cooky fringe for pointing out a coming economic collapse, unsustainable entitlements, the possibility of hyper inflation...

My sources are solid cge, as a basic search shows. AP, core of engineers, etc.

Absent the wettest winter on record, barge traffic stops by June with the real possibility of the Mississippi going dry at a few key points.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 09:57 PM (oYccn)

261 I'm buying the 'rents a hand pump for the well for Christmas.

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 09:45 PM (mkb9H)


I was looking into that myself actually, I wonder what it would take to drill one right through my kitchen counter so I can pump water right into my sink. It's the only thing I don't have if the power goes out; I have a fireplace and a camp stove but no way to pump the water up from the well.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 24, 2012 09:57 PM (DaUUd)

262 It's cold as fuck.

Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 09:58 PM (NIZHJ)

263 new thread

Posted by: elizabethe at November 24, 2012 09:58 PM (s765P)

264 How much longer do you have to go? I'll send out a courier STAT!


Tomorrow. We have a five to six hour drive back and I finally pitched a fit and said we were leaving by 10 a.m. Mommy got all pinchyface at me but I told her that I want at least some time to myself before I go back to work on Monday. She wants to be home by 4 tomorrow so we're leaving a whole. fucking. hour. earlier and it's now all drama drama drama.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 24, 2012 09:58 PM (yTtpr)

265 Here ya go ATC.

Booze and humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygeWsoYYMuQ

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 24, 2012 09:58 PM (piMMO)

266 And it's "Corps of Engineers". A "core" is a center,
like an apple's. That's one of those mistakes that makes me grind my
teeth.


Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:56 PM (mKMj1)

You sure it's not corpse?

Posted by: Obama at November 24, 2012 09:58 PM (dKV5k)

267 Skating rink is shutting down and so am I. See you on the ONT when I get home.


Later roonz and roonettez!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at November 24, 2012 09:59 PM (DaUUd)

268 249
What can we actually do to avoid being wiped out financially?



Truthfully - nothing.



There is some truth to that. I had a company go under because my biggest distributor went under, stealing several mill from me.

So, sometimes shit just happens, but you need to think ahead. I'd saved a lot of money, so the pain was minimal. Not buying new cars and beach houses every fucking two years, etc is a good start. People I know that have gone broke, generally spent their money like a drunken sailor thinking everything would always be great. Driving that leased Benz around might look cool, till you lose your house. Several of my friends discovered that the hard way,

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 24, 2012 09:59 PM (wR+pz)

269 #246 GCE I binged and found just the opposite

Posted by: DAve at November 24, 2012 09:59 PM (XDC0v)

270 To be fair, when New Madrid goes off again and the Mighty Miss begins flowing backwards again, there will be parts that are very dry indeed.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 24, 2012

Only for a day or so, then it comes back strong.

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 24, 2012 10:00 PM (RCzDO)

271 I'm not getting all sciency and fancy and all, but I did hear that our area of the country (midwest) has entered a drought period worst than the dust bowl era with the exception that our uses for the land are more advanced than they were back then. And of course, hedgerows. It's a pattern that we have fallen under unfortunately.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at November 24, 2012 10:01 PM (ZOf1l)

272 Another URL, re STL and the Missouri. Cut to 12k cfps, which is a fucking trickle. Mississippi at -5 feet in STL by dec 10.

Dry winter may be coming. Then what?

Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 10:01 PM (oYccn)

273 And it's "Corps of Engineers". A "core" is a center,
like an apple's. That's one of those mistakes that makes me grind my
teeth.


Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:56 PM

If the Corpse of Engineers say it's so, they're the experts

Posted by: Barry Obullshit at November 24, 2012 10:02 PM (wwsoB)

274 272 Another URL, re STL and the Missouri. Cut to 12k cfps, which is a fucking trickle. Mississippi at -5 feet in STL by dec 10.

Dry winter may be coming. Then what?
Posted by: Hopeless at November 24, 2012 10:01 PM

Flush the toilet a bit less often. Other than that, what the fuck are we supposed to do about it other than run around in circles flapping our arms screaming for the government to "DO SOMETHING"

Posted by: kbdabear at November 24, 2012 10:05 PM (wwsoB)

275 Flush the toilet a bit less often. Other than that, what the fuck are we
supposed to do about it other than run around in circles flapping our
arms screaming for the government to "DO SOMETHING"



Relax. I've got this.

Posted by: Jamie Gorelick at November 24, 2012 10:07 PM (z9HTb)

276 Relax. I've got this.
Posted by: Jamie Gorelick at November 24, 2012 10:07 PM (z9HTb)


Wait for me!

Posted by: Zombie FDR at November 24, 2012 10:08 PM (ZOf1l)

277 I can't remember where I read how much more in taxes each individual will have to pay on 1/1/2013. The highest rates were in, of course, blue states. I am in one of the top ten states, MA, that will have to pay upwards of $6,000 in taxes.
Thanks Obama voters, like #10 unless he's been removed by now.

Posted by: CarolT at November 24, 2012 10:11 PM (z4WKX)

278 Relax. I've got this.
Posted by: Jamie Gorelick at November 24, 2012 10:07 PM (z9HTb)

God I hope not. Imagine the cost of bailing out the fish.

Posted by: Invictus at November 24, 2012 10:11 PM (OQpzc)

279 277
I can't remember where I read how much more in taxes each individual
will have to pay on 1/1/2013. The highest rates were in, of course,
blue states. I am in one of the top ten states, MA, that will have to
pay upwards of $6,000 in taxes.

Thanks Obama voters, like #10 unless he's been removed by now.

Posted by: CarolT at November 24, 2012 10:11 PM

Imagine the reaming they're going to get in San Francisco.

They'll blame Bush and the eeeevvvvilll Republicans of course

Don't you know that Silicon Valley millionaires aren't "rich-rich"? They're just hard working folks who are ok with paying a few more dollars in taxes


Posted by: kbdabear at November 24, 2012 10:14 PM (wwsoB)

280 Don't worry, everybody! Some guy on Facebook declared that Obama's re-election was a "total win for the middle class!"

So we're good!

Posted by: Kensington at November 24, 2012 10:19 PM (uaEZS)

281 My boss (a CFP) and I think that the beeg boyz will take care of themselves - so the system will not collapse. It won't be pretty, but everything will continue to muddle along. THEY won't let it collapse. THEY have too much to lose. We get the 'crumbs', but we will survive.
(CFP = certified financial planner)

Posted by: carolina at November 24, 2012 10:22 PM (oyZpF)

282 alexthechick

We should have spent the holiday together. Mine was a bust. We could have gotten loaded on expensive booze and played poker. Then shopped for stompy boots (I prefer Italian ones.)

Ah, good times.

Posted by: mpfs at November 24, 2012 10:23 PM (Mkhiu)

283 155 EBT cards should probably be renamed "the Basic Living Stipend." Everyone who read David Weber, raise your hands. Posted by: Dianna at November 24, 2012 09:15 PM (mKMj1)

Look where feeding 'the mob' (aka Free Shit Army) got the Legislaturalists and then the inevitable Committee of Public Safety, which eventually resorted to The Terror as the People's Republics always do.

Posted by: Thomas Theisman at November 24, 2012 10:24 PM (jts1f)

284 GGE- I'm sorry If I missed you with this: Wood burning truck conversion (this is the true "prepper must have"): Wood "gasification"
http://tinyurl.com/cspkcon

Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 24, 2012 10:24 PM (mkb9H)

285 core of engineers

I'd double-check your sources. It's corps, not core.


Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 24, 2012 10:25 PM (uhAkr)

286 #189 The platte river in Nebraska goes dry a lot because they suck up the water for irrigation from the ogalalla aquifer.

Posted by: T-DUBYAH-D at November 24, 2012 10:27 PM (WX65W)

287 ONT is up!

Posted by: kbdabear at November 24, 2012 10:29 PM (wwsoB)

288 66 At least the chocolate ration has increased.
Posted by: Butters at November 24, 2012 08:41 PM (NIZHJ)


War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

Posted by: Winston Smith at November 24, 2012 10:31 PM (jts1f)

289 268
249

What can we actually do to avoid being wiped out financially?





Truthfully - nothing.


====


Your answer presupposes that there will not be a single country on earth whose currency does not crumble, and who no longer has an enforceable contract of any kind. A little over the top I would say. Something will be working somewhere -- something always does.

Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 10:33 PM (kfC1R)

290 Jeez, don't you have any better advice than this? Learn how to do basic food storage and have bug out bags for everyone in the family. Learn how to grow your own food and save the seeds. I've got an article bookmarked from a guy that decided to turn his bedroom into a solar powered room. Anyone could do that, and you'd be a lot farther along than the ecos that just like to talk about it. Learn how to do stuff with your hands. Get some basic woodworking tools from Harbor Freight if need be, and learn basic carpentry.

The reason that hard times scares you is because you don't know how to do the basic stuff any more. People always used to have food on hand and I'll guarantee you that it will get you through a spell of unemployment better than anything else you can do. My friend was laid off for a year and managed to make her mortgage payments because she is a heavy duty prepper and didn't have to spend her unemployment money on food. I don't have a lot of advice for those with real money (artwork is supposed to hold its value. You can get worn US coins from the time when they were made from silver and cooper, which would be a good thing to have around.) Learn some skills that you can barter with. Stockpiling cigarette and booze might be useful too. If you don't know how to shoot, learn how.

I have seen these skills disappear within my lifetime. It's high time we got to work on re-learning them. You will feel more confident to handle whatever lies ahead.

Posted by: notsothoreau at November 24, 2012 10:55 PM (WZQdF)

291
jc, exactly.
I'm good with guns and ammo (reloading 45ACP tonite, as a matter of fact), but fairly certain it won't come to that.

Have food/water/etc.as earthquake prep, not end-of-times prep.

But, aside from physical gold (OK there, too, actually), or buying farmland and moving to self-sufficiency - things for a very, very unlikely situation of actual social collapse - does anyone have any practical ideas? Inflation, other sorts of subtle confiscation around the margins, and further pernicious squeezing of the productive sectors seem much more likely than Mad Max, secession, or other apocalyptic scenarios.

Only thing I can think of (and it applied anyway since the slow morphing of the public equity markets into some sort of artificial frankenstein, with regulation and esp. Fed interference), for those with the means, is to make their first and biggest savings vehicle a residential rental property. Decent neighborhood, good numbers (with rates low as they are this is not too hard), modest cash-flow positive, nothing risky or ambitious. Like every other asset, this too would suffer from depression or the more likely Japanization (stagnation) of the US economy that is being willed upon us by our idiotic political class, and the fools and idiots who make up half the electorate (incl. our families and friends, in many cases). But such an investment would lose less value, and would always have some ability to support itself via rent payments.

Any other practical ideas?

Posted by: non-purist at November 24, 2012 10:56 PM (UViC2)

292
"Four or five dollars have been promised for every dollar actually available."
That's the optimistic scenario.
iow, the end of the world *as we know it.*
Life will go on...but it won't be the same. Almost everything you think you know (things you now take for granted)will be different.
Two tricks:
Figuring out exactly when it will happen. ...and surviving -as in your own life, itself, 'surviving'- during and afterwards.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 24, 2012 11:08 PM (WwR1j)

293 Any other practical ideas?


====


diversify across as many good ideas as one can afford. store some things for use and for trade. dry TP may be a great trade some time. have some extra ammo around.



find an ETF that seeks inflation protection across a basket of reliable currencies.



try to find ways to borrow in fixed dollars and get paid in inflation-adjusted dollars -- ie. take long term mortgages, but don't write long term leases against those mortgages. there may be a day when a months rent will pay off a 30 year mortgage. look for all types of inflation levers and get on the right side of them.



track which ways the politically connected plan to get thru this and bet with them some of the time. they see shit coming too, and they have a plan -- try to figger out what it is and emulate it.



Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 11:12 PM (kfC1R)

294 While everyone here seems to think the SHTF is a possible scenario, I don't see that happening.

1) Our tax rates are lower than Europe. We can raise them to cover a lot of our problems, and cut the rest. No, I don't like that, but its true.

2) The government will have a hard time creating inflation by printing money because the banks have been deflating. Also, since our borrowing is now almost all short term, we cannot inflate our debt very easily - when they roll over they will simply face a higher interest rate.

3) Before they seize 401K's they will soak the foreigners, i.e. suddenly T-bills owned by central banks will have 95% tax when re-deemed.

4) We may muddle through. Americans are good people. We may keep plugging away despite our political class.

Posted by: Sexypig at November 25, 2012 12:14 AM (MFLZd)

295 The solution to unfunded defined benefit programs is simple -- just tax those with defined benefit pensions enough to cover any expected short fall and dedicate it to the Pension Guarantee Trust Fund which oversees unfunded defined benefit pension. Call it the Defined Benefit Tax (DBT).

Let's befreedom of choice -- Give the defined benefit folksthe choiceto cash out into a defined contribution plan using a prorated value of their actual contributions into their pension and opt out of the DBT tax...

Those of us with market based401ks and IRA shouldn't have to cover those who think that non-marketbased defined benefit pensions are the way to go.

Also, readjust any public workerbee COLA adjustments to that someone at the FPL might get until their wages come in line with equivalent private sector folks. Split the saving between deficit reduction and improving the COLA for those on SS.

Posted by: drfredc at November 25, 2012 01:51 AM (BoLlc)

296 294 - I agree there is some overdramatization here but you are too optimistic. The SHTF may not be a gigantic elephant turd but a steady drizzle of rodent pellets - inflation, taxes, getting used to 8-9% UE etc. In other words more of what we have now, the old frog boil unless something changes big-time.

Posted by: Gary Rosen at November 25, 2012 03:07 AM (Kz60W)

297 12
So, most of us are very accomplished at the deer-in-the-headlights view
on this situation. We have seen it coming for a long time. Great. We can
even have a contest over who can describe the situation best.


But,
does anybody got a real idea on what to do? And, no, I am not
particularly interested in a whole bunch of "live in a cave," / "join
the militia" / "shoot your neighbors" / "let it burn" rants. I've read
plenty of those. They are not very helpful right now.


Really,
does anybody have a good idea? Gold seems over to me and besides that I
can't eat it. What can we actually do to avoid being wiped out
financially?


Posted by: jc at November 24, 2012 08:24 PM (kfC1R)

I feel the same way, and even though gold has probably risen to the point where you're not going to "make" money, I think it's probably the best way to "salvage' what you do have when the shit hits the fan. And note that I used to make fun of gold bugs.
I nearly liquidated my stock portfolio the night of the Election (and I had also been selling earlier into the last QE3 rally) and I'm glad I did.
I didn't think Romney was going to fix everything, but it at least would have said that the country was interested in pointing the ship in a better direction. If I don't see a snap back in 2014 like we saw in 2010, this country truly is dead man walking.
Instead of "investing" my wealth, I'm more interested in salvaging what I can before the locusts take it. Believe me, I would have MUCH rather had the world my parents grew up in where they could just sock away their savings and watch it grow in the stock market.

Posted by: Jeepers at November 25, 2012 11:38 AM (XDRsa)

298 You suckers have not paid into "Socialist Security", you have paid a tax called FICA. Lyndon Johnson the demoskilled that back in the 1960's.What little bit you will get after you have paid your FICA tax, will also be taxed again.
Government, at best, is incompetent; at worse, gangstism. We have a whole lot of both.

Posted by: den1313 at November 25, 2012 05:20 PM (yMk61)






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