Guns and Hunting Thread (12-1-2012)

Is It Safe?

One thing that's been drilled into my head since I was a small child is gun safety. When I say I grew up with guns in the house, I mean there was at least one in every room. They were usually loaded or had full magazines. And trigger locks? Puh-leeze.

Things are different these days. The People's Republic of Massachusetts requires you to keep your guns locked up at home, but even before I lived here, I had a wife who enacted that same law once we had kids in the house.

The focus on physically securing firearms is all well and good, but they don't exist to accessorize a room in a gun cabinet or be locked out of sight in a safe. The real fun comes in shooting them, and of course an element of danger comes along with that.

The NRA has three fundamental rules of safe gun handling:

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use. Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

I'd add a fourth: There is no such thing as an "unloaded gun". The explanation of every gun accident you ever hear of begins. "I didn't know it was loaded ..."

Don't be this guy:

Gun of the Week - Answer

Identify this revolver by make, model and caliber (answer appears at the end of the thread):

Sure, You Can Make a Gun Out Of a Shovel, But Let's See You Make One Out Of a Hoe

From moron XBradTC, comes this tale of ingenuity. I mean, who hasn't looked at a shovel and thought, "I can make an AK out of that"?

Marksmanship Award

I found out after the inaugural gun thread that Cam Edwards is a lurker moron. Hi, Cam! Here's one of his armed self defense tweets from this week.


And if you want to help a brother out, you can listen to Cam's show each weeknight on SiriusXM Patriot 125 from 9pm to midnight eastern or stream it live from NRANews.

Gun of the Week

The gun of the week is the Smith & Wesson Model 1917 in .45 ACP. Colt made one too, but the photo is the S&W. You can tell the difference between the two easily by the S&W-style vs. Colt-style cylinder latch.

Just The Tip

Thanks for the great gun thread tips and requests that were sent in this week. Sorry I couldn't get to them all, but they're in the queue.

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Piss off a liberal. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Posted by: Andy at 01:55 PM



Comments

1 Educate me.

Posted by: minometer at December 01, 2012 01:58 PM (PwwAS)

2 Always consider it loaded.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at December 01, 2012 02:01 PM (6TveQ)

3 That pistol looks like a Webley. Don't know the caliber. Possibly a .25.

Posted by: navybrat at December 01, 2012 02:01 PM (Pjt1t)

4 Brand new SCAR 16S sitting in my closet waiting to be fired. Just ordered 500 rounds too.

Now, all I need is a map of local water towers...

Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 02:02 PM (doBIb)

5 Anyone here have a 300 AAC Blackout? What do you think of it? Recommendations?

Posted by: damnnodaks at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (IhvEa)

6 Loading question:


I read about having to be extra careful with the amount of powder in a home load. Exploding chamber = bad.


Do shotgun shells require the same level of caution?

Posted by: fluffy at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (z9HTb)

7 Gun of the Week
Identify this revolver by make, model and caliber (answer appears at the end of the thread):


It's a blank.

Whad'I win?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (JEpGb)

8 IF you are talking British Army Webleys, they are designed to break open and up on a pivot just before the trigger guard. Eject the spent brass and reload. Snap cylinder and barrel down, ready for action again.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 01, 2012 02:04 PM (Mnvm/)

9 The home in which I grew up had a nice gun cabinet, it was not in the main family room, it was in "Dad's room" which had all kinds of Dad stuff in it like pipes and copies of Argosy magazine.

The cabinet had a nice glass front door, which went the entire height of the cabinet. It had a lock, a sort of perfunctory one. The key was always on the top of the cabinet. The glass front meant that the guns within could be admired. Now, I have a lot of those guns in my cabinet, which is more like a bank safe, secured on a concrete slab in my garage. Times change.

Posted by: navybrat at December 01, 2012 02:05 PM (Pjt1t)

10
Christmas present to the Mrs. Lurking Canuck and Mini Lurking Canuck?

Enrollment in Canada'sfirearm safety course. Then, guns and ammunition for the coming Free Shit Army Zombie Apolcalyse!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 01, 2012 02:06 PM (lMOZd)

11 When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.

Posted by: Tuco at December 01, 2012 02:06 PM (0SXI6)

12 I took my daughter for her first shooting lesson this week. The guy operating the "school" works from his home in a nice, rural area.

I've got extensive training and history with firearms, and I can tell you this guy was very good at what he does.

One of the things he said was, the scariest words you will ever hear are "it's not loaded." He says when he hears those words he gets as far away from that person as he can, because he knows anybody who knows what they are doing doesn't TELL you a gun is not loaded, he shows you.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:08 PM (BeSEI)

13 Hey, new hash....and so close to SMOD. Damn, need to contact EoJ and find out where he gets all those wonderful hashes.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 01, 2012 02:09 PM (lMOZd)

14 ALWAYS declare the state of your weapon to those around you.
Crossing fences, stopping for a piss, ANY reason you can find to let people know if your gun is loaded, breached, un-loaded, etc.
I have been hunting with the same 3 guys for the last 20 years because they are the only safety minded guys I have ever found.

Posted by: garrett at December 01, 2012 02:09 PM (Bm0GP)

15 4. Never point the gun at anything you don't want to shoot.

5. Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting multiple times.

Posted by: Joe Mama at December 01, 2012 02:10 PM (EKr9U)

16 ...and the featured gun is always a Rem. 870.

Posted by: garrett at December 01, 2012 02:10 PM (Bm0GP)

17 Do shotgun shells require the same level of caution?


Posted by: fluffy at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (z9HTb)

YES!

Posted by: Joe Mama at December 01, 2012 02:10 PM (EKr9U)

18 IF you are talking British Army Webleys, they are
designed to break open and up on a pivot just before the trigger guard.
Eject the spent brass and reload. Snap cylinder and barrel down, ready
for action again.Posted by: Anna Puma


Don't forget the fabu lanyard cord that all the fashion forward officers love!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 01, 2012 02:11 PM (JEpGb)

19 >> 5. Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting multiple times.

As The Duke said, any man worth shootin' is worth killin'.

Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 02:13 PM (OZPoa)

20 The first lesson to teach a kid is that he/she should never take/touch a weapon until it is breached and demonstrated to be unloaded.
I never got tired of my old man, uncles, and grandfather testing me, either.

Posted by: garrett at December 01, 2012 02:13 PM (Bm0GP)

21 I love the part near the end of the gun safety video, where he introduces the woman holding up the rifle. Everybody starts freaking out.

Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 02:14 PM (sdi6R)

22 Is It Safe?

Is not safe - is GUN!

Posted by: russian at December 01, 2012 02:15 PM (JtyGg)

23 Oh, and you know what I don't find particularly funny? People making jokes about somebody who just shot and killed his girlfriend, then put the gun to his own head and pulled the trigger.

Links on Drudge go to a site, the comments there are disgusting.

If you are prone to depression, part of your safety plan needs to be turning your firearms over to somebody else UNTIL YOU ARE MENTALLY STABLE ENOUGH to handle a firearm again.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:15 PM (BeSEI)

24 Did the DEA dumbass frag himself? I feel so much better knowing we're protected by such upstanding limping men.

Posted by: Fritz at December 01, 2012 02:16 PM (d8K+M)

25 At the end of the DEA clip, it sounds like the students are telling him to put the second gun down. They don't want him to handle it.

I don't blame them. After he shot the first gun off, that should have been the end of his demonstrating anything. That he went right on with his talk undermined any credibility he had regarding taking gun safety seriously.

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at December 01, 2012 02:18 PM (jeAQW)

26 Well, this isn't really about guns, but it's about weapons and I'm not asking for a debate about longbows...

My kids broke a toy bow they had and I thought about getting something more real for the 12 year old.

I don't actually want anything he can kill his brother and sister with...yeh, I'm a spoilsport...

Academy has a whole section on Youth Archery:

http://tinyurl.com/bqfbdwh

So my question is just is there anything there or elsewhere that would be good for messing around with in the back yard but that is better than a toy? Something with suction cups on Amazon had a bunch of reviews about how you really couldn't aim the darn thing...pass...

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 01, 2012 02:18 PM (SUKHu)

27 20 -

And after it is demonstrated to be unloaded, when you take possession of the weapon from the other person giving it to you, say thank you, or in some other way verbally acknowledge you now have possession of it.

The other person should NOT relinquish control of it until he or she knows you have taken control of it.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:18 PM (BeSEI)

28 Well WCT the lanyard makes sense if you are cavalry officer and lose your grip in the middle of a mounted charge... but yeah they are simply smashing as fashion accessories.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 01, 2012 02:20 PM (Mnvm/)

29 I love it in the video when he says "it's an empty weapon guys" when the kids are giving him grief about the rifle.

They're all thinking, "didn't you say that about the Glock, too"?

Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 02:20 PM (OZPoa)

30 25 -

Well he did acknowledge this was presumably his last firearms demonstration he'd ever be allowed to give, so he tried to explain one of the consequences of being as stupid as he was.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:21 PM (BeSEI)

31
twss

Posted by: Dr. Varno at December 01, 2012 02:21 PM (6TveQ)

32 I love the part near the end of the gun safety video, where he introduces the woman holding up the rifle. Everybody starts freaking out.Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 02:14 PM (sdi6R)In fairness, guy proved his a dumbshit, I'd be freaked out too. Sad thing is that probably created a whole room of anti-second amendment people in that one instance.My rule, it's not unloaded until I have personally inspected the chamber, clip, etc. otherwise, treat as loaded.In my hunter's ed class one of the teachers said he had an old rifle with an internal clip below the barrel, it got a bullet stuck up in thereand came loose on what he thought was an unloaded gun some time later. Luckily he noticed before anything bad happened.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:22 PM (GaqMa)

33 Once of the principle things is to drive home the extended trigger finger alongside the weapon until you are at the moment of firing. And when you stop firing - it gets extended again. No matter what the weapon.

When things get intense, your fingers can do stupid things. If they are off the trigger it doesn't matter.

Not one of the idiot cops who shot themselves holstering a glock would have had an AD with an extended trigger finger.

Not only is it safe - but it broadcasts safety to those around you. I can tell you from thousands of hours of range time that I seldom look at the muzzle, I look for that finger.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:22 PM (qBLA2)

34 Semi O/T --
KC Chief player in murder suicide.
http://tinyurl.com/cduc4f7

Posted by: eleven at December 01, 2012 02:23 PM (fsLdt)

35 Looks like the old S and W military pistol which came in 38 and 45 with half moon clips. I did know that as it was my first shooting experience over 22. BOOM. Love the cavalry attachment on the grip.

Posted by: Beagle at December 01, 2012 02:23 PM (sOtz/)

36 I still carry an MP from time to time. I have one which was "fitzed up" and it is a jewel.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:24 PM (qBLA2)

37 I want to shoot Denise Milani with my gun.

Posted by: eleven at December 01, 2012 02:24 PM (fsLdt)

38 #3 is a big problem for me.

My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times. No round in the chamber, but a full magazine.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:25 PM (GsoHv)

39 BurtTC: I couldn't make out most of what he was saying to tell you the truth.

I thought early on he said he was the only one qualified to hold that kind of weapon or something like that, but after he shot the gun most of what he said was unintelligible to me without more effort than I was willing to give.

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at December 01, 2012 02:26 PM (jeAQW)

40 Smith and Wesson AR for 875....good buy?

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 01, 2012 02:27 PM (85EaA)

41 #3 is a big problem for me.

My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times. No round in the chamber, but a full magazine.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:25 PM (GsoHv)
Have you considered keeping the magazine next to the gun? Solved the "stored loaded" problem, and takes only a few seconds to put the two together.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:27 PM (GaqMa)

42 good buy. Get plenty of mags.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:28 PM (qBLA2)

43 I am the only one professional enough in this room blam.

Posted by: Butters at December 01, 2012 02:28 PM (NIZHJ)

44 Smith and Wesson AR for 875....good buy?

The MP? Yes, it's a good AR for the money. Perfect for keeping the FSA away from you.

Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 02:28 PM (doBIb)

45 33 -

It also has the added benefit of, hand/eye coordination being what it is, if you must turn quickly and fire, before your finger enters the trigger guard, your weapon is now pointed where you want it pointed. Not as accurate as using the front sights, but in a situation where fractions of a second count, accurate enough.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:28 PM (BeSEI)

46 So what's the sequence of events to safely own a firearm if you have essentially no experience and no close friends to teach you?

Do I sign up for some sort of gun safety class first, before purchasing a weapon?

Do I purchase a weapon and sign up for lessons?

Do I sign up for lessons from some place that loans the weapon?

I want to start with long guns. I was thinking shotgun for skeet (and home defense), but it seems like most folks start with a .22 rifle. I'm not interested in a hand gun.

Honestly, I can't figure out how to get started.

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (5H6zj)

47 My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:25 PM (GsoHv)

keeping your wife drunk is a very risky home defense strategy. or is that not what you meant by loaded?

Posted by: yankeefith at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (Z9EHQ)

48 "I look for that finger."

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:22 PM (qBLA2)

Bingo!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (GsoHv)

49 My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times. No round in the chamber, but a full magazine.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:25 PM (GsoHv)

I quizzed a state patrolman once about carrying a loaded (same as yours none in the chamber) gun in the car or if it should be unloaded (magazine removed).
His answer: "it won't do you much good if it's unloaded".


Posted by: Joe Mama at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (EKr9U)

50 Y-not,

Visit your local gun range and sign up for a beginner class. They'll teach you everything you need to know about safe handling. You may be able to try out a .22 rifle or a shottie while you're there too.

Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 02:30 PM (doBIb)

51 Posted by: Mama AJ at December 01, 2012 02:18 PM (SUKHu)

You might try looking at one of the Fred Bear Youth rigs: http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/bows/youth

But there is the ability to be lethal even with those. It's all about education and safety.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 02:30 PM (92IJx)

52 #3 is a big problem for me.

My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times. No round in the chamber, but a full magazine.


Not a problem. It's "in use".

Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM (OZPoa)

53 Go to a skeet/trap range and ask if they have a pro. Get some lessons, try different guns and go from there.

If you are a female, look for a female instructor. Every yahoo and his brother will want to give you lessons. Unless you look like janet reno, that is.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM (qBLA2)

54 39 -

Heh, understood.

It was something like "see kids? This is what happens when you don't handle guns safely, and now I'll never be allowed to give this demonstration again."

And he then proceeds to limp around, and try to continue with the lesson, so yeah, mixed message he's sending there.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM (BeSEI)

55 Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:27 PM (GaqMa)

The extra magazine is next to the loaded pistol.

I have been shooting since I was five years old, and every one of those shooting sessions was focused on Safety....Safety....Safety!

I don't think that a pistol with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber is less safe than an empty weapon.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM (GsoHv)

56 Here's a contribution for future gun threads: the Hot Shots 2013 gun calendar.

(NSFW-ish)

http://tinyurl.com/bsnfre7

Posted by: Uh Oh at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM (Ys6PL)

57 I am the only one professional enough in this room blam.

That was awesome.

Posted by: eleven at December 01, 2012 02:32 PM (fsLdt)

58 Posted by: yankeefith at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (Z9EHQ)

Shhh!

She's upstairs...she'll hear you!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:32 PM (GsoHv)

59 I bet this twirp tried to qualify ejection port down.

Then was shuttled off to the junior high circuit.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:33 PM (qBLA2)

60 Not a problem. It's "in use".

Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM (OZPoa)

Well, all of the other weapons are in the safe, so......

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:33 PM (GsoHv)

61 46 Find a range that offers classes. Go to a gun shop and inquire. There are plenty of friends here to help you. Don't buy anything.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 02:34 PM (6H6FZ)

62 Back from the Football Thread.
Unloaded.
Nothing in the mag or the tube.

Posted by: garrett at December 01, 2012 02:34 PM (Bm0GP)

63
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (5H6zj)

People start with .22s because the ammo is cheap (and the guns are fairly inexpensive too.) But the shooting techniques for Skeet and .22 shooting are fairly different (I have one friend who compares it to tennis and racquetball, they share concepts, but are just different enough that learning one first can subtly mess up the other.)
Frankly I can't shake my .22 tendencies when shooting trap, I still want to close one eye, and have poor followthrough.
Having said that, 'round these parts we have "intro to [gun type] seminars where they provide the gun and ammo for an afternoon and you go down and they teach you basics, etc. I think it's a good start. You may also want to look into places that allow you to rent guns for a day (on range, not take them a way) to see what feels right. Case in point, I own a Mossberg 835, I prefer the heft of the gun with it's wood stock and overbored barrel to my friend's Remington 870Express, that gun just don't feel right to me.)

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:34 PM (GaqMa)

64 Here's a contribution for future gun threads: the Hot Shots 2013 gun calendar.

(NSFW-ish)

http://tinyurl.com/bsnfre7


Oh hell yeah!!!

Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 02:34 PM (doBIb)

65 someone had a clip of one of those natgeo preppers blowing his thumb off during a training session with his kids - he put his thumb over the muzzle and started trying to blame it on blowback.

Posted by: yankeefith at December 01, 2012 02:34 PM (Z9EHQ)

66 62 - nice club you have there.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:34 PM (qBLA2)

67 >> Honestly, I can't figure out how to get started.

I'd take a gun safety class first. Your friendly local gun store should be able to hook you up.

Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 02:35 PM (OZPoa)

68 Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 02:30 PM

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM

--

Thanks.

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:35 PM (5H6zj)

69 53 -

Amen, that's what I did for my daughter. We found an instructor who co-facilitates with his wife. Indeed, he did the "classroom" instruction, and she took the lead on the range.

Y-not, I'm not sure what your objection to a handgun is, but just know that if you are using it for self-defense, you can't carry a concealed shotgun... well, you could, but....

And if you are in your home, there are practical advantages to being able to hide and fire quickly from a tight spot. A shotgun will lose you precious fractions of seconds bringing it up to aim.

I'm not saying a shotgun is not fun, nor is it a bad idea to have one around for big problems, but most people should have a handgun for their primary self-defense weapon.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:36 PM (BeSEI)

70 Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:34 PM

Thanks.

There are tons of ranges around here, including indoor, and a Cabela's and Scheel's not far from here. So even in the winter I'll be able to get started?

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:37 PM (5H6zj)

71 No sweat. Y not.

Heads up - any class which does not begin with safety.... Run.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:37 PM (qBLA2)

72 I don't have much to add on the gun thread, but when it comes to hunting, I've had a good week. 9 point buck (4x5 for you westerners), a doe, and my brother got a doe as well. 2 more days and back to the office.

Posted by: Mauser757 at December 01, 2012 02:37 PM (8SdG7)

73 >> Heads up - any class which does not begin with safety.... Run.

This!

Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 02:38 PM (OZPoa)

74 Y-not,

I second the advice on a female instructor. Most ranges should have a female staff member nowadays. Some ranges even offer women-only classes and personal instruction.

Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 02:38 PM (doBIb)

75 Thanks for the heads-up that Edwards is "of the Horde". I'll follow and list him as soon as I log into Twitter.

Posted by: Polliwogette, disappointed hobbit at December 01, 2012 02:40 PM (NYki8)

76 >>You might try looking at one of the Fred Bear Youth rigs: http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/bows/youth>>But there is the ability to be lethal even with those

Thank you.

Yeh, I think our backyard is just too small for anything but a toy one. Or our neighbors' yards are too close...

Maybe I'll stick to the "soft-tipped" darts and board I looked at for now.

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 01, 2012 02:40 PM (SUKHu)

77 And if you are in your home, there are practical advantages to being able to hide and fire quickly from a tight spot. A shotgun will lose you precious fractions of seconds bringing it up to aim.

I'm not saying a shotgun is not fun, nor is it a bad idea to have one around for big problems, but most people should have a handgun for their primary self-defense weapon.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:36 PM (BeSEI)
Meh, I've always felt that my primary concern is getting to safety, not getting the guy breaking in, so I don't even keep my shotgun upstairs. I'm going for the quickest, safest exit I can find. Having said that, if I get forced into the basement by conditions, you be your ass I'm coming up firing. But "precious seconds?" My shotgun has a 30 in patter, whose aiming at that point?As for CBD's point, that's kinda also where I stand, an abundence of caution, mostly because I won't remember if I left the chamber clear or not. And I don't intend on hanging around long enough to exhaust a magazine.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:41 PM (GaqMa)

78 Y-not, I'm not sure what your objection to a handgun is, but just know that if you are using it for self-defense, you can't carry a concealed shotgun... well, you could, but....

---

I'm really more interested in sport shooting as the primary thing, with the home defense option secondary. So budget wise and interest wise, I'd like to start with long guns.

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:41 PM (5H6zj)

79 Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (5H6zj)

Depending on what state you live in, find your state's 2A advocacy group online. They'll likely have a forum and will let you know what gun stores and other organizations/businesses can provide instruction. Another great place to start is the Appleseed Project: http://www.appleseedinfo.org/ .

Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 02:42 PM (92IJx)

80
Again--why on earth, if circumstances dictate having a weapon handy, would you not keep it in a usable state?

An unusable long gun is just a club, a pistol makes a poor rock. Loaded and one up the spout posits that you got enough sense to handle ANY weapon safely.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 02:42 PM (SAMxH)

81 One of the first things new shooters need to determine is which is their master eye.

Extend your thumb and cover up something with it with both eyes open.

Close your left eye. Did your thumb move?

No - right eye dominant.

Yes - left eye dominant.

Females - for what ever reason - are more likely to be cross dominant.

Here is a good website for females and good explanation of cross eye dominance.


Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:42 PM (qBLA2)

82 Smith is making those M1917s new as part of their Classics line. Me want.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 02:43 PM (celt+)

83 http://mausersandmuffins.blogspot.com/2008/06/steak-and-world-eye-domination-eye.html

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:43 PM (qBLA2)

84 1) Learn safety.

2) Find something you like and feel comfortable with, so try a few different things.

3) Everyone is going to tell you the best thing to buy. Don't buy. When you begin to understand a little bit do some research. Then ask more questions.

4) Don't be embarrassed or feel stupid. Everyone was a beginner once.

5) This can be fun if you let it.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 02:43 PM (6H6FZ)

85 Any moron want to take a class with Sonny Puzikas?

Tip-make sure your will is fille out properly.

Posted by: RWC at December 01, 2012 02:43 PM (sqp6o)

86
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:37 PM (5H6zj)
I confess to never having seen an indoor skeet range (although I assume they exist) and I haven't been to an indoor range in years (MO conservation runs a great outdoor range that requires no membership and allows shooting for $3/trap round or $3/hour target shooting.)
So yeah, YMMV in terms of scheduling and whatnot on that one, can't really help you there.
Just a heads up, Deer season I shoot 12 gauge slugs, I haven't personally run into problems, but my friends have of ranges saying those are "too big" and not allowing them. (Similarly, the MO range I use has a limit on shot larger than a #7, so I can't pattern my turkey choke there.)

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:44 PM (GaqMa)

87 I'm a guy, but when I took a basic pistol class a few years ago, I had an awesome female instructor.

She said that her husband, who was ex-military, had bought a handgun for home defense and kept in the nightstand. She was so scared of it that she couldn't sleep.

So he took her to a range and taught her to shoot it. Within six months she was shooting in competitions, and then became an NRA-certified instructor.

Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 02:44 PM (sdi6R)

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:45 PM (qBLA2)

89 One of Gunsite's top instructors is a female.

Shooting is gender neutral.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:46 PM (qBLA2)

90 6 Loading question:

I read about having to be extra careful with the amount of powder in a home load. Exploding chamber = bad.

Do shotgun shells require the same level of caution?
Posted by: fluffy at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (z9HTb)



Yes. No difference.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 02:46 PM (2nD8D)

91 I got two Argentine Smith .45s back in the 80s for $200 each through a gun club. One was refinished and the other was stock. With a little cleanup and a couple of full moon clips they make a great house gun.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 02:47 PM (6H6FZ)

92 Reminder. I'm in Utah. I believe we have the most "liberal" (ha ha) gun laws in the nation, or amongst the most. We have Open Carry here.

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:47 PM (5H6zj)

93

Anyone here have a 300 AAC Blackout? What do you think of it? Recommendations?

Posted by: damnnodaks at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (IhvEa)


-------------------------

Funny you should ask - I just discovered that rounds about a week ago. My plan now is to pick up a SW MP Sport when the panic buying dies down, and put a RRA mid-length 5.56 upper on it. Then I'll pull the barrel off of the now-useless SW upper and install a .300 Blackout barrel for about $200. Should be good for some giggles. I mean, it's pointless, but pretty much 95% of my gun buys are.



Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 02:47 PM (celt+)

94 77 -

The way my house is set up, it may not be possible to get out before someone gets between my family and the exits.

There's a good video out there, I think it's called "Run, Hide, Fight."

In that order. So yeah, if you can, get out. If you can't, hide. And if your hiding place is breached, fight to the death.

My handgun is by my bed. It's coming with me, whether I'm running away or hiding or fighting.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:48 PM (BeSEI)

95 I read about having to be extra careful with the amount of powder in a home load. Exploding chamber = bad.

Thats kind of a strange question. All commercial ammunition has to conform with SAAMI specs and all are safe to use in the correct caliber/gauge in modern firearms.


Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:48 PM (qBLA2)

96 80
Again--why on earth, if circumstances dictate having a weapon handy, would you not keep it in a usable state?

An unusable long gun is just a club, a pistol makes a poor rock. Loaded and one up the spout posits that you got enough sense to handle ANY weapon safely.
Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 02:42 PM (SAMxH)

Agree.

Posted by: RWC at December 01, 2012 02:49 PM (sqp6o)

97
Keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 02:49 PM (celt+)

98
Had a friend whose rule at deer camp was that all firearms are always loaded. No exceptions, thus no ambiguity.
Worked.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at December 01, 2012 02:50 PM (z4bFV)

99 Our state symbol:

http://amzn.com/B009VP8WLY

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 01, 2012 02:50 PM (SUKHu)

100 300 blk, 300 whisper - same thing.

221 fireball necked up to 308 cal.

If you don't like the 22s, cut out the middle man and go to a HK 91 or PTR.

20 rounds of real 30 cal and german original issue mags for 1.97 at CTD.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:51 PM (qBLA2)

101 So morons...

RDS and HWS...

Which brands do you prefer? I'm in the market for some optics. Not really going for long-range target shooting, just something for close to intermediate range use.

Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 02:51 PM (doBIb)

102 I'm really more interested in sport shooting as the primary thing, with the home defense option secondary. So budget wise and interest wise, I'd like to start with long guns.
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:41 PM (5H6zj)
This is my purchasing strategy too. I don't have hundreds to thousands to spend on guns, I have to be judicious. So I got a shotgun first, trap shooing, then with minor barrell adjustment (i.e. new barrel) I got myself a deer gun. With a new choke, I got myself a turkey gun. All for less than the cost of a Pistol (I bought used on the gun and barrel.)Yeah if I had a bigger budget, I'd probably get myself a decent 30-06 or.308, but I don't, it's that simple. So it's better to have a gun I enjoy and might be useful for home defense, than a gun that sits in my drawer.Although if I could do it all over again, I'd get iron sights for my slug barrel over scope rail. I thought scope rail would be easier, it's really not. (but I was in more of a hurry than I should have been, long story.)

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:52 PM (GaqMa)

103 92 Try here: http://utahgunowners.com/ They can tell you who the reputable dealers and instructors are.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 02:52 PM (92IJx)

104 38 #3 is a big problem for me.

My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times. No round in the chamber, but a full magazine.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:25 PM (GsoHv)


The best way. No doubt. My primary defense auto is always stored like that. Long term, completely empty with magazine removed. I hate trigger locks and have never used them. If you don't have time to jack a round, you're likely dead anyway.

Wheel Gun? Hammer Down on an empty chamber.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 02:53 PM (2nD8D)

105 101 - Leupold or Nightforce. Hard to go wrong.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:54 PM (qBLA2)

106 Why hammer down on an empty chamber?

Using an 1873 colt?

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:54 PM (qBLA2)

107 89
Shooting is gender neutral.


Indeed. Guns are "the great equalizer".

In the olden days, wielding swords and battle-axes required muscular strength, endurance, and lots of training. Women and untrained men were at a distinct disadvantage.

I mean, you could give me the finest samurai sword ever made, and if I went up against a real trained swordsman, he would cut me in half before I could get it out of the scabbard.

Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 02:55 PM (sdi6R)

108
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at December 01, 2012 02:50 PM (z4bFV)

My friends rule was "assume the 30-30 lever action is loaded at all times." (The rest of us had guns with open breaches, so we left them open.)
That damn30-30 though. When you loaded it, it was armed, no safety, no nothing. And disarming it was a bitch (you basically had no choice but to level out all the rounds in the built in magazine, then dry fire.)

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 02:55 PM (GaqMa)

109 Females - for what ever reason - are more likely to be cross dominant.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:42 PM (qBLA2)


Thanks for this! Turns out I'm one of them: I'm left-handed and right eye-dominant.

Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at December 01, 2012 02:55 PM (mepMv)

110 I don't have hundreds to thousands to spend on guns, I have to be judicious. So I got a shotgun first, trap shooing, then with minor barrell adjustment (i.e. new barrel) I got myself a deer gun. With a new choke, I got myself a turkey gun.

---

It's funny you should mention big black turkeys. There are two living a few doors down in an old cherry grove.

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:55 PM (5H6zj)

111 107 89
Shooting is gender neutral.

Indeed. Guns are "the great equalizer".


I've seen some women shooters you wouldn't want to shoot against. Women do exceedingly well with 9MM, .380 etc. autos and they catch on very quickly.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 02:58 PM (2nD8D)

112
For the beginners.

MOA seems to be a term that confuses most people. Here's my gross approximate over-simplification:

MOA means "Minute of Angle", and is the benchmark for a good-shooting rifle. VERY ROUGHLY (don't jump down my throat, pedants), it refers to shooting a group (that's a five-shot cluster) that measures an inch across for every hundred yards. So, a one-inch group at 100 yards would be MOA (or 1MOA). A two-inch group at that distance would be 2MOA. A six-inch group at 200 yards would be 3MOA, the same group at 300 yards would be 2MOA, etc.

Experts, if I'm utterly wrong about this, please do correct me.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 02:59 PM (celt+)

113 I tried that thumb trick.
Turns out I'm brown-eye dominant.

Posted by: Barney Frank at December 01, 2012 03:00 PM (Bm0GP)

114 112 - close enough.

Of course there is minute of dirtbag accuracy as well - but that is usually determined at 7 yds.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:01 PM (qBLA2)

115
My Remington New Model Army can be carried with all chambers loaded. It has a milled notch between each chamber to allow this.

And it's a Civil War weapon--go figure.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 03:01 PM (SAMxH)

116 113 - tasted like shit, too, didn't it barney?

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:01 PM (qBLA2)

117 Heh. Chiappa Triple Threat. Three barreled shotgun.

Posted by: RWC at December 01, 2012 03:01 PM (sqp6o)

118 What topic is hotter on Google Trends than 'ammo'?

Bulk ammo. Heh.

Also, my new favorite site to check out every few days is:

http://gunssavelives.net/

They compile press reports of guns used in self defense, with links. I'll note that I just checked and the Cincinnati story isn't there.

There are more cases of gun use in self defense than you think.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 03:02 PM (ccXZP)

119 What I noticed when we went skeet shooting with a group of neophytes and one experienced guy (our host) is that the neophyte women did better than the men. My theory is that the men were trying to horse the shotgun, whereas the wimmens (including self) didn't. We focused on just pivoting and tracking, not trying to actively hoist/aim the weapon.

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 03:03 PM (5H6zj)

120 I can't think of a modern revolver which does not have a transfer bar in the works which prevents the hammer from contacting the fp unless the trigger is pulled.

Even 1911 series 80s had this contraption. (first thing to go in a trigger job.)

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:04 PM (qBLA2)

121 The two biggest mistakes shotgun shooters make are not keeping contact with the comb (raising your head to see that pretty bird you just missed fly away) and stopping the swing.

Keep in mind, your rear sight on a shotgun is your eye.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:06 PM (qBLA2)

122 106 Why hammer down on an empty chamber?

Using an 1873 colt?
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:54 PM (qBLA2)



No. That is the common sense safest way to store a quick access wheel gun. A cop buddy used to store his off duty S/W hammer down on a loaded chamber. His boy got to fuckin' with it, dropped it and it went off. Round went harmlessly into the wall, through the garage wall and into the garage. Kid was scared shitless, Dad was fit to be tied and Mom had a high-speed come apart.

It's rare, but it can happen.

Heh...it just missed his cruiser, parked in the garage. Try explaining that one away....:-)

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 03:06 PM (2nD8D)

123 106 -

Heh, some old habits die hard. Really old.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 03:06 PM (BeSEI)

124 No, 98 it isn't. Keeping your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot is.

That SW has a transfer bar which prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

Tell your cop friend to pay attention when he is armed and stupid stuff like that won't happen.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:09 PM (qBLA2)

125
300 blk, 300 whisper - same thing.

221 fireball necked up to 308 cal.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:51 PM (qBLA2)


-----------------

Nope.

Whisper is a necked .221. Blackout is a trimmed necked 5.56. There are small dimensional differences. Also, Whisper is not SAAMI-spec. A Blackout will chamber a Whisper round, but not vice-versa. So, while this could be a .223 in a 5.56 scenario (usually OK), why take the chance?




Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 03:09 PM (celt+)

126
1. ALL weapons must be treated as if they are always loaded.
2. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and you are prepared to fire.
3. Never point a weapon at anything you are not willing to shoot, kill, or destroy.
4. Be certain of your target and beyond.

Finally, boarding house rules of gun etiquette... Nobody gets seconds until everybody gets first's...

Posted by: northwest_g at December 01, 2012 03:11 PM (CIndg)

127 I saw yesterday that Cheaper Than Dirt has Mossberg replacement butt stocks with a 12" length of pull. Good for smaller ladies and a little better for home defense.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 03:11 PM (6H6FZ)

128 124 -

Yeah, and no offense, but if you didn't see it, don't believe the kid just happened to drop it and it SOMEHOW went off!!

That's usually a lie on the same level as "sorry honey, I must have gotten herpes from a toilet seat."

Trigger got pulled. Somehow, some way.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 03:11 PM (BeSEI)

129 The dimensional differences are meaningless.

AAC is trying to get a government contract.

I will go by what JD Jones has to say. He is the inventor.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:12 PM (qBLA2)

130
A cop buddy used to store his off duty S/W hammer down on a loaded
chamber. His boy got to fuckin' with it, dropped it and it went off.
Round went harmlessly into the wall, through the garage wall and into
the garage. Kid was scared shitless, Dad was fit to be tied and Mom had
a high-speed come apart.

-----------------

My bet is the kid pulled the trigger, and lied about "dropping" it.

"Five beans in the wheel" was good advice for pre-transfer-bar revolvers. There's a reason nobody says that anymore.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 03:14 PM (celt+)

131 128 Yup. Most likely.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 03:14 PM (6H6FZ)

132 The arms room in one of my old units had a nice hole in the ceiling. We were turning in our weapons and when the armorer told the dickhead in front of me to clear his weapon, like we do every fucking time, he rolled his eyes and said, "I don't need to because I cleared it already. See?"

*BLAM!*

Enjoy your field grade Article 15, dipshit. And thanks for the three days of constant ringing in my ears.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 01, 2012 03:16 PM (JDIKC)

133 Those aren't the Four Rules of gun safety. To learn the Four Rules, google "Four Rules."

Posted by: J. Moses Browning at December 01, 2012 03:16 PM (DAfG4)

134
Yeah, and no offense, but if you didn't see it, don't believe the kid just happened to drop it and it SOMEHOW went off!!

That's usually a lie on the same level as "sorry honey, I must have gotten herpes from a toilet seat."

Trigger got pulled. Somehow, some way.


If you don't mind me mixing in with the gaming thread, IIRC in one of the World of Darkness sets (I think was 2nd edition) dropping a glock (I think it was a glock, some handgun) meant you rolled a d6 to determine if it "accidently discharged" (on a 6.)
They claimed this as based on an actual error some of the glocks that was later corrected, but I never stopped to verify this. (Occam's razor suggest that as people are dropping the gun they're frantically trying to not drop it, and at some point a trigger gets pulled.)
What's the pull weight on most handguns away? (It's nearly impossible to accidently pull the trigger on my Mossberg, I think it's got a 10lb pull or some craziness. I need to get an accutrigger so I can tone it down during deer season)

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:16 PM (GaqMa)

135 I saw yesterday that Cheaper Than Dirt has Mossberg replacement butt
stocks with a 12" length of pull. Good for smaller ladies and a little
better for home defense.

The various "youth" models are great also. My wife started on an 1100 youth 20 and now has a Citori sporting clays she loves - but still goes back to the 1100 from time to time.

For you handloaders out there - check out Hodgdens youth loads for 12 gauge.

There is a 3/4 oz load with clays that is really sweet. May not cycle an autoloader, but in a pump or break open it is nice. With shot almost 50 bucks a bag, it is cost effective as well.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:16 PM (qBLA2)

136
The dimensional differences are meaningless.

AAC is trying to get a government contract.

I will go by what JD Jones has to say. He is the inventor.

-------------------

Oh, this is JD Jones vs AAC pissing-match stuff. Never mind.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 03:16 PM (celt+)

137 No, it isn't. When the inventor says the differences are meaningless, I will go with that over someone trying to score a big bucks contract.

Personally, I could not care less. I don't use cartridges like that.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:19 PM (qBLA2)

138 Modern revolvers have a safety built into the hammer that prevents the firing pin from contacting the chamber when the hammer is down. So having a round in each chamber is really not a problem, even if you were to drop it.

But that safety mechanism has been known to break on rare rare occasions. You can see the safety at work by taking an unloaded revolver and pulling the trigger and holding it fully pulled. When you release the trigger, the hammer will spring back into the safety position. You can then push on the hammer if you like, to see that it will not move toward the firing pin any further.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 03:19 PM (ccXZP)

139
One other thing I would suggest for beginning handgunners---start with a .22,autoload or wheel, doesn't matter.

There is no perceptible recoil, so you don't catch a case of the flinches, and not thinking about recoil will let you practice safe handling, sight picture and all the rest without waiting for the bang and jump a large caliber will give you.

Once you master the basics, you can move up to the large stuff. Unfortunately, I've seen way too may neophytes ruined by not doing this.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 03:24 PM (SAMxH)

140
damnnodaks, back to your original question:

Think of the 300 Blackout as a modernized .30-30. If you're in a wooded area like New England, and you already have an AR and just want to switch uppers, it's a cheap way to have a .30-caliber AR. And it uses standard AR-15 5.56 mags that you already have, so it's even cheaper than dinged two-dollar HK mags.

If you're out where the ranges are long, and you anticipate shots over 200 yards, you're better off with a .308.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 03:24 PM (celt+)

141 124 No, 98 it isn't. Keeping your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot is.

That SW has a transfer bar which prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

Tell your cop friend to pay attention when he is armed and stupid stuff like that won't happen.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:09 PM (qBLA2)


Do what you like.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 03:26 PM (2nD8D)

142 Andy, I just got home from my first tactical class, and they showed that video. HA! Dumbass.....

*prays I'm never in a "what not to do" gun video

Posted by: mare at December 01, 2012 03:29 PM (A98Xu)

143 139 >> There is no perceptible recoil, so you don't catch a case of the
flinches, and not thinking about recoil will let you practice safe
handling, sight picture and all the rest without waiting for the bang
and jump a large caliber will give you.

irongrandpa, when my dad was teaching me about guns and we finally moved up to a revolver with some horsepower, I was flinching. So what he did was load a random number of live and fired shells in it. The first time you see yourself reacting to no recoil, you will learn how to stop reacting. My aim improved immediately from this little trick.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 03:30 PM (ccXZP)

144 hey!

guns

only 90 minutes late to the party

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 03:31 PM (2CiZb)

145 the AAC 300 in subsonic is only a 200 yard cartridge

btw

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 03:33 PM (2CiZb)

146 Do what you like.

I intend to - which includes being careful, paying attention and not doing stupid things with firearms.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:34 PM (qBLA2)

147 y-not, the NRA has women-only shooting courses.

Posted by: Steve Skubinna at December 01, 2012 03:35 PM (HoGA+)

148 @ 143

Great trick, one I used salvaging a young lady shooter a few years back. Someone thought it a fine trick to let her shoot a hand cannon with no real instruction.

It took a summer of work, but now she actually enjoys punching paper. Plus this last year she went hunting with us. Made me smile.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 03:35 PM (SAMxH)

149 I intend to - which includes being careful, paying attention and not doing stupid things with firearms.

Smart thing to do.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 03:36 PM (2nD8D)

150 Experts, if I'm utterly wrong about this, please do correct me.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 02:59 PM (celt+)


that is one aspect of MOA, the level of accuracy.

MOA is also roughly how your scope and sights adjust unless you have a scope that the turrets are based in mils


Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 03:37 PM (2CiZb)

151 An excellent way to dry fire, is to balance a coin on the front sight (if possible) and keep it there while you do your dry fire drills.


Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:38 PM (qBLA2)

152
I need to figure out a way to get my wife to at least be less tepid towards the guns. Right now there's more of a detant than anything. She said she'd go with us to the range, but then suddenly backtracked sans explaination. Thoughts from anyone, likely especially the 'ettes.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:38 PM (GaqMa)

153 152
I need to figure out a way to get my wife to at least be less tepid towards the guns. Right now there's more of a detant than anything. She said she'd go with us to the range, but then suddenly backtracked sans explaination. Thoughts from anyone, likely especially the 'ettes.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:38 PM (GaqMa)


Are you pushing her or is she genuinely interested?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 03:41 PM (2nD8D)

154 For those of you just starting out with shooting, first stop on the intertoobs should be Kathy Jackson's Cornered Cat site. I'm proud to say that several years back I got one of our own 'ettes into shooting by recommending she start at CC.

www.corneredcat.com

I much prefer Col Cooper's 4 rule system to the NRA system. There's more precision in the language, and I think that's important for safety. Other things, it's almost impossible to have a negligent discharge that hurts someone unless you violate TWO rules. Plus, there are no exceptions to the 4 rules......ever. You could be a casual shooter punching holes in paper at a formal range or a soldier on the battlefield or anything in between, the 4 rules always always always apply. I don't like the idea of thinking about exceptions to safety rules, it's a really bad habit to get into.

Over Thanksgiving, my SiL told me that it's time to take my eldest nephew out for his first time at the range, so we've planned it for the Christmas break. Already did a long talk with the kid about safety, and the American heritage of arms. Plus he has homework, he has to memorize the 4 rules by Christmas.

I can't wait.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 01, 2012 03:42 PM (TIIx5)

155 She said she'd go with us to the range, but then suddenly backtracked sans explaination.
----
Who's "us?" Are there other women going to the range?

I think I'm atypical of most married women, because I usually prefer doing things with my husband rather than other women. We are lucky that we tend to enjoy similar things and gravitate toward pursuing activities that we both enjoy - or we compromise and each tries things the other likes.

But it seems as though most women want the company of other women in outings and stuff. So I guess if you could find another married couple to go with, that might help.

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 03:42 PM (5H6zj)

156
The first rule of Gun Safety is, you don't talk about Gun Safety.

Wait, that's not right.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 03:46 PM (celt+)

157 Tsr - guess I am lucky in that respect. My wife and I met shooting and we have the reloading room set up for his and hers.

We almost always include a nice dinner with a range trip.

We push each other competitively so it works well.

Good luck! Make it fun - or else....

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:46 PM (qBLA2)

158
Tsr - guess I am lucky in that respect. My wife and I met shooting and we have the reloading room set up for his and hers.

We almost always include a nice dinner with a range trip.

We push each other competitively so it works well.

Good luck! Make it fun - or else....


Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:46 PM (qBLA2)






Sounds like a match made in heaven. Come to think of it, shooting ranges are a nice little slice of heaven on earth, so I guess that would follow. I'm jealous, you lucky bastard.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 01, 2012 03:49 PM (TIIx5)

159 Its a match made in heaven until her digital calipers are missing...

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:50 PM (qBLA2)

160 126 comments before the Four Rules got posted but a story about a gun going off cause it got dropped came first. Nice.



NO modern firearm will just "go off" when dropped. Not even the Glock. If there is a malfunction MAYBE, but modern firearms are built in such a way that if the trigger is not pulled the firing pin will not move. In todays litigious society a gun manufacturer would have to have a corporate death wish (so to speak) to build a firearm that could ever go off if it was just dropped.



When you release the trigger, the hammer will spring
back into the safety position. You can then push on the hammer if you
like, to see that it will not move toward the firing pin any further.


Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 03:19 PM (ccXZP)


Actually the hammer does not move, the transfer bar does. The hammer hits the transfer bar which then hits the firing pin. On a modern revolver without the trigger being pulled the transfer bar does not engage. The hammer never touches the firing pin on a modern revolver.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 03:51 PM (yh0zB)

161 just some of my observations...

some gun guys are terrible instructors

some husbands are terrible instructors

some instructors are terrible instructors

some gun counter commandos are terrible at giving advise


listen and learn but always have the muscle between your ears working

I've heard competitive shooters even say the dumbest things


Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 03:54 PM (2CiZb)

162 Is there a version of that clip sub-titled or in English ?

Posted by: no lipreader at December 01, 2012 03:54 PM (BARK4)

163
@Other responders
"Us" is me and a mutal friend that she hangs out with all the time (actually in college she introduce me to him ). No women other women (I don't have many/any women friends, and strangely neither does my wife).
As for pressuring her I once said offhandedly "you know you're welcome to go to the range with us, don't feel like we don't want you around." And she said "that sounds like something I'd like to try."
Fast foward a few months (I took some time off shooting for a while, due to time constraints) and suddenly she's more hostile towards my keeping guns in the house than I remember and when I said "you want to come with us" I got a "no I really don't like guns" statement.
I is perplexed.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:56 PM (GaqMa)

164 It took a summer of work, but now she actually
enjoys punching paper. Plus this last year she went hunting with us.
Made me smile.


Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 03:35 PM (SAMxH)


Good for you irongrampa. I always want to hunt the YouTube douchebags down who video their girlfriends shooting high powered firearms without any kind of training and beat them to death with a hammer.

First, it isn't safe. Someone could get seriously injured or killed, and guns are not toys. Second, it ruins the shooting sport for the girl, and I firmly believe that EVERY female should be armed. I'd rather them explain the dead attacker at their feet than read about the discovery of a raped and strangled body.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 03:56 PM (yh0zB)

165
Actually the hammer does not move, the transfer bar does. The hammer
hits the transfer bar which then hits the firing pin. On a modern
revolver without the trigger being pulled the transfer bar does not
engage. The hammer never touches the firing pin on a modern revolver


Thank you GGE.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:57 PM (qBLA2)

166 I is perplexed.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:56 PM (GaqMa)


Something bad happened. Find out what it is.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 03:58 PM (yh0zB)

167 I got a "no I really don't like guns" statement.
I is perplexed.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:56 PM (GaqMa)


good luck with all that, tread carfully.

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 03:59 PM (2CiZb)

168 So I went out deer hunting again yesterday. I think I'm wasting my time. I should just go skwerl hunting instead, at least I see some of them.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:00 PM (yh0zB)

169 thanks Andy for the guns posts.

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:01 PM (2CiZb)

170 Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:56 PM (GaqMa)

Hmmm......probably best to just let it go and see if she ever gains interest. Something in the back of my mind says that her college friend gave her the whole "guns are the root of all evil" line. See what develops, I guess.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 04:01 PM (2nD8D)

171 I found it is just as easy to each a beginner on a .357 revolver with .38 wadcutters and step up the ammo as they get more comfortable. They don't have to learn another gun. Also, the last time I taught a woman I told her the "kick" was part of the fun. I also get a little bit Zen-ish, getting them to be "as one with the gun" and "follow through" the shot. There is a good chance that I am just yammering and distracting them from their fear, but, hey, if it works...

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:03 PM (6H6FZ)

172 o I went out deer hunting again yesterday. I think I'm wasting my time. I should just go skwerl hunting instead, at least I see some of them.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:00 PM (yh0zB)


That is why I like to go shooting rather than hunting, not enough trigger time in hunting


Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:03 PM (2CiZb)

173
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 04:01 PM (2nD8D)
I guess? Her best friend in college (and before) owns 3 handguns. I'm a freaken lightweight compared to that with my 1 shotgun and barrel.
I'm starting to wonder if my mother (who almost made me store the shotgun I purchased with my own cash at a friends house) has somehow gotten her hocks into her (but I find that unlikely, as when I moved out I reached a detante with my mother on the gun issue "leave me the hell alone about my hunting" And thusfar she has.)
Although returning to the college friend, 2 of those are for target shooting and 1 is home defense (she lives in baltimore, a cestpool.) I'm wondering if that has linked "guns" and "violence" in my wife's mind...poorly.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 04:05 PM (GaqMa)

174 163, Was she upset by the theater shooting/ other recent high-profile events? If you can do a little delicate question asking (or have a friend do so) you might be able to discover the cause. Otherwise, maybe just tell her your confused and are trying to understand what changed.

Posted by: Polliwogette, disappointed hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:05 PM (NYki8)

175 Guns I want (in no particular order)

Marlin 795 (to make an Appleseed gun out of. I don't want a Ruger 10/22)
Remington 700 CDL in 30-06
M1 Garand or M1A (rather have the M1A)
M1911, just because
Ruger Blackhawk in .357
Saiga 12 shotgun
Winchester Model 94
Glock 19, cause it's the same size as my G36 with extensions but is cheaper to feed
Mosin M38 carbine
AR pattern Evil Black Rifle


(and enough money to feed them all)

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:06 PM (yh0zB)

176 59: ejection port down

You must be a lefty.

Posted by: Rule #2 at December 01, 2012 04:06 PM (CypDC)

177 Any one have any thoughts on barrel whip in longer rifle barrels . I mean Palma barrels are in the 30 to 34 inch range and are relatively slender , especially compared to bench rest pipes . Yet they're known for extreme accuracy . Just seems like Palma contours would be like a tuning fork at the muzzle before the bullet comes out . I'm thinking about having a tube gun made someday and a lot of them use palma style barrels .
My deer season is pretty much over for the year..
Four in the freezer . That should last till next year.I'm not through hunting , but it'll have to be a real monster for me to pull the trigger .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:06 PM (USjX1)

178 @ 168

I agree totally with you on the hammer beating.

Assholes, all.

Took Spastic Lab out for squirrels this year, she's a perfect partner to chase them back around the tree, plus I don't have to go find them now. Lazy me just loves that.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 04:06 PM (SAMxH)

179 Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 04:05 PM (GaqMa)


if you can link

guns=fun

or

guns=keeps me very safe from bad guys


I think you will have turned the corner

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:08 PM (2CiZb)

180 171 I found it is just as easy to each a beginner on a .357 revolver with .38 wadcutters and step up the ammo as they get more comfortable.

That's how my former Training NCO taught his wife. He loaded some powder puff .38 rounds and started her off with the feel of the gun itself and stepped up the load, eventually to full bore .357 rounds.

She is a very good shot.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 04:09 PM (2nD8D)

181 That is why I like to go shooting rather than hunting, not enough trigger time in hunting







Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:03 PM (2CiZb)


That's true, but Range Partner has been busy with a new job and girlfriend so I haven't gotten out there lately (I shoot on his ticket at the gun club). I'm expecting he will contact me soon, he likes to go at least once a month...but this time of year is kind of tight anyway. I can just go to the indoor range for pistol shooting, but I want to shoot the rifles some.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:09 PM (yh0zB)

182 My deer season is pretty much over for the year..

Four in the freezer . That should last till next year.I'm not
through hunting , but it'll have to be a real monster for me to pull the
trigger .



Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:06 PM (USjX1)


*feel my hatingness>>>>>>>*

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:11 PM (yh0zB)

183 My wife is often cross, and usually dominant. Plus, she's right-handed, but shoots left-handed. Does that make her cross cross-dominant dominant? (I already know it makes her somebody I don't wanna piss off).

Posted by: jwpaine (@PirateBallerina) at December 01, 2012 04:11 PM (FUozQ)

184 Palma shooters need the longer barrels for velocity because they are limited to 150 or155gr bullets,

also the longer barrels help with sight radius

or so I was told by a Palma shooter.

I don't shoot Palma, fwiw

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:11 PM (2CiZb)

185 Hang in there GGE you're still at the dues payin' stage . Your luck will change as your woodcraft improves .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:14 PM (USjX1)

186 All barrels are going to have "whip" to a certain degree. Precision reloading, which will result in extremely consistent velocities will help by having the muzzle in approximately the same place when the bullet exits.

The various tuning devices, like the Browning Boss, and those used by 22 precision shooters also help by fine tuning the harmonics of the barrel.

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 04:14 PM (qBLA2)

187 173
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 04:01 PM (2nD8D)
I guess? Her best friend in college (and before) owns 3 handguns. I'm a freaken lightweight compared to that with my 1 shotgun and barrel.
I'm starting to wonder if my mother (who almost made me store the shotgun I purchased with my own cash at a friends house) has somehow gotten her hocks into her (but I find that unlikely, as when I moved out I reached a detante with my mother on the gun issue "leave me the hell alone about my hunting" And thusfar she has.)
Although returning to the college friend, 2 of those are for target shooting and 1 is home defense (she lives in baltimore, a cestpool.) I'm wondering if that has linked "guns" and "violence" in my wife's mind...poorly.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 04:05 PM (GaqMa)


Yeah, something happened to turn her off so abruptly. I wouldn't push it. As long as she is still cool with you shooting, call it a day for now.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 04:14 PM (2nD8D)

188 Posted by: jwpaine (@PirateBallerina) at December 01, 2012 04:11 PM (FUozQ)

the best way I've found is have someome look at an object through the hole in a CD/DVD.

Then bring the CD/DVD back till it is touching their face.

The eye they are looking wiht is the domenent eye

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:15 PM (2CiZb)

189 160 >> Actually the hammer does not move, the transfer bar does. The hammer hits the transfer bar which then hits the firing pin. On a modern revolver without the trigger being pulled the transfer bar does not engage. The hammer never touches the firing pin on a modern revolver.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 03:51 PM (yh0zB)

What do you mean by 'modern'? I have a SnW Model 66 .357 revolver, and the firing pin IS on the hammer and DOES directly strike the bullet. I just checked to make sure I wasn't full of shit. Now, it's in stainless steel and looks like new, but I happen to know it's over 30 years old. I suppose I could check the S/N and find out exactly how old it is, but it looks reasonably 'modern' to me. So this gun has a different mechanism than 'transfer bar strikes the firing pin'.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 04:17 PM (ccXZP)

190 So I took the Mosin the first time deer hunting and have decided it is a bit long for tree stands although the caliber should do very well and it's dead accurate so I wasn't worried about making clean kills with it (no I didn't use MilSurp FMJ ammo, I got soft point rounds for it).



This last time I took the Saiga, .223 isn't ideal for deer hunting but I'm using the 62gr Federal Fusion rounds and they are supposed to do real well. It would probably have done pretty good, it's short enough that it works good in a tree stand, but I'd still like a bigger round.


I need to find a good machine shop that can drill an .050 hole that I can tap for a 2-56 screw. I want to take another front blade for my Arisaka and make an adjustable front sight. I already have the blade, I just need to drill a hole and tap it so I can put a setscrew in to use for the front post. I'd like to take my Type 30 next, the 6.5x50 should work good for deer hunting and it's a carbine so it should handle well in the tree stand.

I do have a shotgun, but it's almost as long as the Mosin.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:18 PM (yh0zB)

191 Lardge frame Smith and Wesson in .45 ACP using either 3 round semi_moon keepers or full 6 round keepers. They were cranked out for service in 1917 in time to support an inadequate supply of .45 ACP 1911 semi auto pistols. Lanyard ring and issue flap holster. In the Military and Police series of weapons. 4 groove rifling with a rh twist I think but no bets on it.

Posted by: sandman now with extra hate at December 01, 2012 04:18 PM (zxaA2)

192 Jake in ID .. I can see the sight radius argument with iron sights like the real Palma rifles but tube guns are mostly made for telescopic sights and a lot of them are made for hot magnum rounds shooting heavy match bullets as well .
I have a lot of research yet to do , obviously .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:20 PM (USjX1)

193 Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:20 PM (USjX1)


what is a tube gun?

Is that a boplt gun on an AR15 platform?

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:22 PM (2CiZb)

194 Thanks george . Precision reloading . That makes sense .

Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:22 PM (USjX1)

195 I do have a shotgun, but it's almost as long as the Mosin.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:18 PM (yh0zB)

get a 18.5 inch barrel for it?

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:23 PM (2CiZb)

196 Almost as long as the MN?

Marlin goose gun?

Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 04:26 PM (qBLA2)

197 Jake , pretty much . They do have a lot of parts common to ar's , in the stock and forearm , anyway.

Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:26 PM (USjX1)

198
Posted by: Polliwogette, disappointed hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:05 PM (NYki

I've going to revert to my baseline assumptions which usually are "something tangentially related to this hobby has upset her." Something like "I really didn't want you to go to the range that weekend but didn't tell you."
That has happened before.
Meanwhile, my base state is to not question her, I'll keep on up that. The baltimore friend likes to talk about her pistols a lot, so I'll just keep an ear to the ground about that.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 04:26 PM (GaqMa)

199 Those in the market for a M4 might want to take a look at the Doublestar for $645 at Buds Police Supply. Have put through over 500 rounds through mine and not one non-ammorelated problem. Doublestar also makes a rifle with a 7.5" barrel. Not sure how practical it is, but it is one fine looking rifle.

Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 01, 2012 04:27 PM (YYyqq)

200 Finally got my hands on a Remington 870 with the long tube, based on the recommendations of the morons and a gunnut buddy of mine. Fired sis' boyfriend's 870 once and it was pretty nice. Still need to take it to the range. I figure once I get used to it and get steady employment I'll pick up one of the nicer wood stock ones with the shorter magazine tube for potential hunting. I want a rifle, but there's no place to practice around here without paying $500+ a year for private range membership.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 01, 2012 04:29 PM (G99e4)

201 What do you mean by 'modern'? I have a SnW Model 66
.357 revolver, and the firing pin IS on the hammer and DOES directly
strike the bullet. I just checked to make sure I wasn't full of shit.
Now, it's in stainless steel and looks like new, but I happen to know
it's over 30 years old. I suppose I could check the S/N and find out
exactly how old it is, but it looks reasonably 'modern' to me. So this
gun has a different mechanism than 'transfer bar strikes the firing
pin'.


Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 04:17 PM (ccXZP)


Modern = early 40's or so. Smith has a hammer block instead of a transfer bar. Still, the firing pin is NOT on the hammer if it was made since the early 40's, it is in the frame of the gun. With the Smith the trigger allows the hammer block to retract, which lets the hammer hit the firing pin. The hammer should not be able to move far enough to hit the firing pin (which hits the primer in the cartridge, the bullet is the projectile) unless the trigger is pulled. You are right, though, when the trigger is released in the Smith the hammer does move, because the hammer block engages. My mistake, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:29 PM (yh0zB)

202 They do have a lot of parts common to ar's , in the stock and forearm , anyway.
Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:26 PM (USjX1)


what do you plan to do with thetube gun?

I don't see many around here, so just wonderin

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:30 PM (2CiZb)

203 tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:38 PM (GaqMa)

If she's never held a gun, go through the safety procedures and let her hold it, assuring her that nothing is going to go off (because you're so safety conscience). Do this all at home so it's not new at the range.

No one wants to look like a goof, so explain in detail what happens at a range, the range safety procedures, difference between "hot" range and "cease fire." Go through what would be expected, how you would reload the gun, set up targets and how you would be allowed to help position her arms, feet and of course grip if she needs it.

Tell her she can just watch, or fire just once if that's what she's comfortable with. Don't raise your voice and correct without attitude.

I think the fear of the unknown and not looking like a newbie holds people back from trying.

Posted by: mare at December 01, 2012 04:31 PM (A98Xu)

204 The firing pin is on the hammer of a Smith and Wesson Model 66. There is one in my night stand.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:33 PM (6H6FZ)

205 198 Ah, yeah if communication is already an "issue" that complicates things a lot. Can you let the Baltimore friend know your wife needs some encouragement?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:34 PM (NYki8)

206 but there's no place to practice around here without paying $500+ a year for private range membership.


Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 01, 2012 04:29 PM (G99e4)


That, and to join you have to know someone at the range and/or you have to attend their meetings, which always seem to happen on the nights I'm working.

My shottie is a Franchi (Benelli) I-12 auto loader, I don't know if I can get a shorter barrel for it. I can, however, get a longer barrel for my Maverick that will take Mossberg chokes, so I'll probably go that route.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:34 PM (yh0zB)

207 Doublestar also makes a rifle with a 7.5" barrel. Not sure how practical it is, but it is one fine looking rifle.
Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 01, 2012 04:27 PM (YYyqq)

unless it has some sort of pinned brake/flash hider making the barrel 16 inches ...


you need some ATF paperwork because that is a short barreled rifle...

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:34 PM (2CiZb)

208 The firing pin is on the hammer of a Smith and Wesson Model 66. There is one in my night stand.


Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:33 PM (6H6FZ)


I stand corrected. Again. As you can tell, I'm not familiar with S and W (although I'm convinced of their quality, just never owned one).

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:36 PM (yh0zB)

209
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:34 PM (NYki

No, The Baltimore friend does not like me. (Also a long story). She's warmed up to me in recent years, but in high school was convinced I was just dating my (now wife) for sex that wasn't happening. It was strange, and it's only gotten marginally better.

@Mare
Decent suggestions. Perhaps next time I've got the mossberg out for cleaning I'll see if she wants to hold it and get a feel for it.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 04:36 PM (GaqMa)

210 but there's no place to practice around here without paying $500+ a year for private range membership.
Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 01, 2012 04:29 PM (G99e4)


what part of the country are you in?

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:39 PM (2CiZb)

211 I learned the four rules of firearms safety, to wit:

1. All firearms are always loaded.
2. Never cover anything with the muzzle that you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on your target.
4. Always be sure of your target.

Jeff Cooper had it right.

Posted by: Alaska Paul at December 01, 2012 04:40 PM (CvA+Z)

212
By the by, I wouldn't say communication is a "problem" there are just quirks to iron out. Overally we communicate very well.
Meh, If she chooses not to participate it's her loss. Guns are fun.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 04:41 PM (GaqMa)

213 201 GGE, my Model 66 has the firing pin on the hammer, dammit. Made in 1971. Here's a link to a pic:

http://tinyurl.com/cb42pof

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 04:41 PM (ccXZP)

214 209 Yikes, sounds like living in a mine field. Good luck and I agree that Mare's advice has potential depending on what the root cause of her sudden aversion is.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:42 PM (NYki8)

215 Smith Wesson Model 10 (.38 Special)?

Posted by: gastorgrab at December 01, 2012 04:42 PM (FX38i)

216 208 NP. I have only SWs and Colt revolvers so I know them fairly well. Rugers, Taurus, any others I don't know.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:43 PM (6H6FZ)

217 209 Yikes, sounds like living in a mine field. Good luck and I agree that Mare's advice has potential depending on what the root cause of her sudden aversion is.Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:42 PM (NYkiNah, it sounds worse in text than it is honestly. We have a dynamic that works. You just have to get used to it . That's what makes it so hard to explain to any 3rd parties.

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 04:45 PM (GaqMa)

218 213
201 GGE, my Model 66 has the firing pin on the hammer, dammit. Made in 1971. Here's a link to a pic:

http://tinyurl.com/cb42pof


Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 04:41 PM (ccXZP)


See post 208. My only defense is I've never had a Smith, only Taurus (hush!) and Ruger.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:46 PM (yh0zB)

219 Husband is getting his conceal carry permit for Christmas. I'm thinking of getting mine after the holidays, but first I want to learn how to shoot.

Posted by: Book at December 01, 2012 04:48 PM (rm8za)

220
"Smith Wesson Model 10 (.38 Special)?"

Famous, iconic police revolver. Proven reliability. Today it is obsolete unless loaded to get every bit of useful power out of a .38. If all you had was a Model 10 and some hot hollowpoints, you wouldn't be that bad off.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:48 PM (6H6FZ)

221 217 My apologies. I do understand that sometimes (often?) it's difficult to transfers the complexities of a relationship to a reasonably sized blog comment.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:49 PM (NYki8)

222 Husband is getting his conceal carry permit for
Christmas. I'm thinking of getting mine after the holidays, but first I
want to learn how to shoot.


Posted by: Book at December 01, 2012 04:48 PM (rm8za)


This is a very good idea.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:50 PM (yh0zB)

223 I was planning on shooting a USPSA match this AM but it did not work out.

fortunately we got GUNS! at AoS

Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:53 PM (2CiZb)

224 If all you had was a Model 10 and some hot hollowpoints, you wouldn't be that bad off.


Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:48 PM (6H6FZ)


Can you shoot a +P out of a Model 10? I know if you hot load some revolvers you will crack the frames (which tends to make bad things happen).

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:53 PM (yh0zB)

225 fortunately we got GUNS! at AoS





Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:53 PM (2CiZb)


Cool, ain't it?

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:54 PM (yh0zB)

226 211
I learned the four rules of firearms safety, to wit:

1. All firearms are always loaded.
2. Never cover anything with the muzzle that you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on your target.
4. Always be sure of your target.

Jeff Cooper had it right.


Posted by: Alaska Paul at December 01, 2012 04:40 PM (CvA+Z)


Yep, but it seems like every firearms organization wants to re-invent the wheel. My favorites are the ones that try to explain away the first rule. It's easier just to state it that way and act accordingly.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 04:56 PM (yh0zB)

227
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:49 PM (NYki

Apologies not needed! I know how easy it is to jump to conclusions by reading a shorted blog comment .
Consider my followup more like "internet track cleaning" in case my wife ever decides to google "tsrblke moron horde" ot see what I'm up to. (There's sarcasm there, obviously. Mostly it's because I don't like leaving bad assumptions out there).

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 05:02 PM (GaqMa)

228 218 GGE, okay no problem. Now, is my original post inaccurate in any way that led to all this? It's not. It's true I had no idea that most revolvers don't have the firing pin on the hammer; hey, ALL of mine do.

I don't know very much about guns, except how to use, clean and maintain the ones I have. If you gave me an empty frame and a box full of parts, at the end you'd have an empty frame, a box full of parts and a frustrated GnuBreed.


Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 05:02 PM (ccXZP)

229 Also, the revolver pictured in the post is a SW Victory Model from WWII. IOW it's a Model 10 with wood grips and a lanyard swivel. In .38 Special, unless it was made for the Brits, in which case it was chambered in 38/200.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 05:02 PM (92IJx)

230 Now, is my original post inaccurate in any way that
led to all this?



Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 05:02 PM (ccXZP)


It is not. The beating may commence on your order.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:03 PM (yh0zB)

231 Now, is my original post inaccurate in any way that
led to all this?



Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 05:02 PM (ccXZP)

Clarification...it is not FOR THE S and W. The revolvers I am familiar with have their firing pins built into the frame of the firearm and the hammer hits the firing pin.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:05 PM (yh0zB)

232 The 1917 and the Victory models are personal favorites.

I'd pay good money for a webley in .45 LC.

Posted by: sven10077 at December 01, 2012 05:06 PM (LRFds)

233 The revolvers I am familiar with have their firing pins built into the frame of the firearm and the hammer hits the firing pin.


Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:05 PM (yh0zB)


or rather, the hammer hits the transfer bar which hits the firing pin...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:07 PM (yh0zB)

234 224 Can you shoot a +P out of a Model 10?

That is one of those: Can you? Yes. Should you? I would not. That model has been around since steel was not as good as today and who knows how much a used gun has been pushed?

A Model 10 made of modern steel would probably be OK with +P but it isn't a good idea. The best way to make that decision is to double check the latest research available (it is out there) and if it sounds safe, make sure your medical insurance is current, and try it. There are people who push the limits and there are people with all their fingers and two working eyes.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:10 PM (6H6FZ)

235 make sure your medical insurance is current, and try
it. There are people who push the limits and there are people with all
their fingers and two working eyes.


Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:10 PM (6H6FZ)


That's probably good advice no matter what you are talking about.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:12 PM (yh0zB)

236 235

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:13 PM (6H6FZ)

237
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:12 PM (yh0zB)

To quote a friend of mine's mother upon hearing he was heading out to a friends farm some years back: "You have your insurance card right? Cool, call me when you're on your way home."

Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 05:15 PM (GaqMa)

238 Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 05:15 PM (GaqMa)


LOL, yep

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:17 PM (yh0zB)

239 The nice woman who was looking over my shoulder when I was typing said, "You should have mentioned life insurance, too."

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:17 PM (6H6FZ)

240 The nice woman who was looking over my shoulder when I was typing said, "You should have mentioned life insurance, too."


Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:17 PM (6H6FZ)


She's still looking over your shoulder isn't she? lol

When I was still active duty my wife would tell me, in excruciating detail, how she would spend my SGLI (life insurance) if I should kill myself foolishly while out on cruise. At the time I was worth a little over a quarter of a million dollars dead (and not worth a damn thing otherwise).

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:21 PM (yh0zB)

241 Mine just says she isn't done with me yet.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:23 PM (6H6FZ)

242 Nine millimeter.

Safety, always off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Yxa9IeJEc

Posted by: Cyrus at December 01, 2012 05:25 PM (BgIBZ)

243 lol!

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:27 PM (6H6FZ)

244 Well folks, if Gnu is done beating me I'm off to catch some shut-eye. Its my night to stay up all night to get re-acclimated to my night shift ways. See you all on the ONT for those who are going to be there.

Later roonz and roonettez!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:27 PM (yh0zB)

245 Before I ever took my wife to the range with the .38 revolver, we practiced loading, unloading, and firing with those orange dummy rounds (NOT blanks)...she got very comfortable with those and was very good at the range...she also understood why I kept saying "loaded", "your pistol" etc...

She now insists on buying ammunition in bulk.

This from a woman who never wanted any firearm in the house.

Train, train, train.

Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at December 01, 2012 05:28 PM (RIm0W)

246 245 Amen. Nice work!




Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:39 PM (6H6FZ)

247
Also, the revolver pictured in the post is a SW Victory Model from WWII.
IOW it's a Model 10 with wood grips and a lanyard swivel. In .38
Special, unless it was made for the Brits, in which case it was
chambered in 38/200.

---------------------------

Nope, it's a Model 1917 in .45 ACP. Look a little lower in the post, it's answered.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 05:50 PM (celt+)

248 245 Before I ever took my wife to the range with the .38 revolver, we practiced loading, unloading, and firing with those orange dummy rounds (NOT blanks)...she got very comfortable with those and was very good at the range...she also understood why I kept saying "loaded", "your pistol" etc...

She now insists on buying ammunition in bulk.


*smiles*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 06:04 PM (CjeA/)

249 Cool calendar: girlzwithguns dot com

Posted by: JustMe at December 01, 2012 06:24 PM (x5yDi)

250 My husband just got back from deer hunting with a group of my dad and his old buddies on their annual hunt. One of these is a wealthy personal injury lawyer. I looked up his political donations, and sure enough he is a big Dem.

Anyway, this genius trial lawyer is the guy who a couple of years ago blew a hole in the floor of my sister's Suburban. When my BIL asked him if his rifle was loaded, he said No--and pulled the trigger to demonstrate.

Hey, at least it wasn't pointed at any people. Good for him. all the guys sure bailed from that truck like it was on fire.

Posted by: stace, L.I.B. at December 01, 2012 06:27 PM (m+UHL)

251
Late to the thread, but I bought a shotgun the other day. Tactical I might add. It had all the black parts so it must be bad.
I checked to see if it was loaded, and it just came out of a box from the store room.
I am going to have another drink now, nth of many,walk outside, and begin blamming away at things.
I love the secceeded States of America!!

Posted by: Andrew at December 01, 2012 06:29 PM (ksAzv)

252 What do you mean by 'modern'? I have a SnW Model 66 .357 revolver, and the firing pin IS on the hammer and DOES directly strike the bullet. I just checked to make sure I wasn't full of shit. Now, it's in stainless steel and looks like new, but I happen to know it's over 30 years old. I suppose I could check the S/N and find out exactly how old it is, but it looks reasonably 'modern' to me. So this gun has a different mechanism than 'transfer bar strikes the firing pin'.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 04:17 PM (ccXZP)


Gnu- look at the question of 'old' vs 'modern' this way: set two Volkswagen Beetles side by side. Call them a '56 and a '76. They look really similar on the surface. But they aren't.

You're not full of shit. But even iconic designs change over a long run. I really like my 1911, especially after one shot from it last year stopped my mom and dad from being mauled by a large pit bull. But it is not the same 1911 that first saw service in, well, 1911.

Posted by: Bill H at December 01, 2012 06:47 PM (3sZO1)

253 For keeping a loaded revolver or pistol in a home with a nervous spouse or kids, I can recommend a Fort Knox brand personal pistol safe. 10 gauge body and a 3/16" spring-loaded plate door. It uses a programmable Simplex lock that requires no batteries and can be opened almost silently in less than 3 seconds. Mine sits on the night stand.

Posted by: In the bunker at December 01, 2012 07:20 PM (R7H3g)

254 Here in Texas, the 2nd Amendment is alive and well. Our outdoor range is 20 minutes from here and costs 175 a year. No skeets, no traps. Inedible. Just went to Wendys for burgers. Oversize flannel shirt to cover Glock 26 in a Fobus and 2-mag holder. I have Colts, Springfields, SW's, Tauruses, Berettas, etc, but that Glock 26 with the G19 mag (15 rds) works really good. This one has a CrimsonTrace (64 year old eyes). Mrs. EROWMER has been known to use a 1911 as her purse gun.

Posted by: EROWMER at December 01, 2012 07:39 PM (kxlCQ)

255 This is a MUST-SEE: Obama has come out with his list for the gun ban and yours is probably on it: http://tinyurl.com/cwpmgoq

Posted by: DAve at December 01, 2012 07:48 PM (XDC0v)

256
That link in 255 is utter bullshit.

There will be no such gun ban. The Dems have no desire to lose the Senate in 2014.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 09:32 PM (celt+)

257
Never point a gun at something you're not willing to kill.

Never shoot a gun if you don't know where the bullet will stop.

Treat every gun as if it's loaded.

When someone hands you a gun, the very first thing you do is check to see if it's loaded and make sure there isn't a round in the chamber.

Those are a few of the additional rules my dad drilled into me long before I even hit puberty.

Posted by: DC Zombie at December 01, 2012 10:02 PM (EZ3C3)

258 Oh, and never take the safety off or put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire.

Posted by: DC Zombie at December 01, 2012 10:16 PM (EZ3C3)

259 -- 253 -- "For keeping a loaded revolver or pistol in a home with a nervous spouse or kids, I can recommend a Fort Knox brand personal pistol safe. 10 gauge body and a 3/16" spring-loaded plate door. It uses a programmable Simplex lock that requires no batteries and can be opened almost silently in less than 3 seconds. Mine sits on the night stand."

Posted by: In the bunker at December 01, 2012 07:20 PM (R7H3g)

Thanks for that recommendation. I just ordered one. I didn't see these when researching handgun safe boxes last summer. Almost every one made had some major gripe by all the reviewers. This one seems to have met the minimum requirements, though.

Posted by: K~Bob channels Steevy at December 01, 2012 10:50 PM (j75Sd)

260 I've seen that gun banning list link in several threads here and elsewhere. The guy is obviously spamming for folks to buy the book at the link. Plus, it's old news.

These lists have been around since before the AW Ban.

We're all on some list somewhere. I have a list, myself, so we're even.

Posted by: K~Bob channels Steevy at December 01, 2012 10:53 PM (j75Sd)

261 Sock off. Sorry.

Posted by: K~Bob at December 01, 2012 10:54 PM (j75Sd)

262 @GGE (190). If the Mosin is too long for the tree stand but you like the caliber, why not get an M44 Mosin (20.5 inch barrel)?

They are not as cheap as the long Mosin but still relatively cheap, arsenal refurbished and in good shape.

If you can actually look at the guns before purchasing, go for a T-53 (a Chinese M-44, the first rifle issued by the newly formed commie govt back in the day). They are in rough shape stockwise (but can be refinished beautifully). You can find some with good bores. They are going for about 119 bucks now.

Plus having a bolt action rifle with an integral folding bayonet that spits fireballs worthy of a dragon is fun when hunting season is over.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at December 01, 2012 11:17 PM (Wuzok)

263 A certain gun smithing school I know of has a couple hundred gun locks daisy chained like a garland around the classroom. The lesson is that a locked gun is just a blunt object.

Posted by: torabora at December 01, 2012 11:50 PM (zEsOk)

264 I think it's pretty cool where we live in a country where we can go buy a gun and leave it loaded on our coffee tables. I like to see mine. It's comforting.

Posted by: torabora at December 01, 2012 11:55 PM (zEsOk)

265 I threw a roadkill deer in my freezer a few weeks ago. Do you think less of me now?

Posted by: DC Zombie at December 02, 2012 12:47 AM (EZ3C3)

266 @ 264 (torabora) +1 on that!

Who is an SKS fan here? I have 10 of them. 2 yugo M66A1's, a Yugo M59, 2 Albanian "July 10th" rifles (those be rare), a Romanian, a Russian, a Chinese sans bayonet and 2 of those early Chinese production (Sino-Banians?) from the Albanian contract that are currently on the market.

A fine rifle those SKS are IMO! Slightly more accurate than an AK, 10 round integral mag, Integral Bayonet and Nato Grenade laucher on the Yugo M66A1's. Whoooooo, whooooooo! I love America!

Remember when they used be 59-69 bucks back in the day?

No more of those around anymore!


Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at December 02, 2012 12:55 AM (Wuzok)

267 At DC Zombie (265)..if it was fresh at least you used the meat!

There may come a day under the current administration where people are fighting over kill!

My dad hit a deer once, screwed his Vette up real good! They had a program, where you call the State Police, they arrange to pick up the carcass and it got cleaned, butchered, and the useable meat donated to the State Orphanages.

I don't know if they have that program anymore, I moved to Gun Friendly, soon to secede , Texas!



Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at December 02, 2012 01:05 AM (Wuzok)

268 Those sound like Colonel Cooper's rules for gun safety. Even a red rat sobama voter could understand these if there is a life of Julia pictogram.

Posted by: scrimshaw bazooka at December 02, 2012 12:09 PM (Kflw4)

269 One of the best gun safety comments I've ever read was in the book "It" by Stephen King... Bill tells another kid.. can't remember which one.. but he says his father told him that even if a gun is unloaded, if the gun thinks you're not being safe it will "load itself." Creepy as hell to think of, but something I've always kept in mind when I handle a weapon of any kind.

Posted by: Mad Monica at December 02, 2012 04:17 PM (DV6l/)

270
9The home in which I grew up had a nice gun cabinet, it was not in the main family room, it was in "Dad's room" which had all kinds of Dad stuff in it like pipes and copies of Argosy magazine. ...

Mmmmmm, Argosy Magazine! (high-five)
That picture didn't even remotely resemble a Webly, of which I've wanted one of their Victorian age .45's since about the age I learned to appreciate Argosy.



Posted by: Born Free at December 02, 2012 07:33 PM (jnJcf)

271 26
Not sure you'll catch this post, I just got home from teaching my youth rifle class at the range this afternoon.

1st - Look into the Genesis line of bows. Very good quality for beginner to intermediate skill youth. It is NOT a toy bow and this is a good time for your kids to expect to always be shooting with adult supervision.

2nd - Check to see if your county has a 4-H Youth Shooting Sports program. Kids learn by leaps and bounds when they're learning with their peers, as well as reinforce safety to each other. Most states also sponsor competition between youth in a positive, constructive format that fostersa life long love for the Shooting Sports and the Outdoors.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 10:58 PM (L4CWX)

272 My 4th Rule.... Always Assume the firearm is loaded and the Safety is defective, therefore never deviate from 1, 2, and 3.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 11:00 PM (L4CWX)

273 My oldest and I are both cross dominant... right handed, left eye.With younger shooters, don't assume that they have a certain dominance no matter how many times they test. Their body language will reveal a great deal. I have one young lady on my team that shoots pistols right eye and rifles/bows left eye.

A great strategy I adopted for working with my younger rifle shooters, was instead of using the words "left or right" when giving instuctions, I refer to Trigger Hand and Offhand. (I even label them for the younger or new ones for a couple of weeks.

Also, when you're talking with your kids about firearms, reinforce using the correct names for the parts. Other adults will appreciate being on a range with youth are interested in learning, instead of just coming out to blow off some ammunition. Finally, always talk about sportsmanship and respect for your fellow shooters. Competition is fun, but the game is always about self improvement first and buckles second.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 11:30 PM (L4CWX)

274 152
One suggestion for your wife is to start with a good quality PCP Air Rifle - I highly recommend the Crosman models. They are accurate firearms, inexpensive to practice (my backyard is the right depth with a honeysuckle bush behind my targets). Prone is the most stable beginner position, but benched and bag works too... as long as its only a few practices.

My fellow coaches and I have both used Air Rifles and Pistols to rehabilitate shooters who had some wise guy (almost always an exboyfriend) hand them a wrist breaker as a joke.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 11:47 PM (L4CWX)

275 So, did Bob Costas realize what stadium he was standing i and what state.... my guess is the folks in the stadium didn't hear his ill informed and highly illogical comments or there would have been a major reaction from the fans.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 03, 2012 12:03 AM (L4CWX)






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