President Reagan's Greatest Mistake


"Reagan is a conservative. An extreme conservative. All the blockheads
and dummies are for him, and when he says that something is necessary,
they trust him."

--Bush, as quoted by Mikhail Gorbachev in a 2009 interview in The Nation.

I and others touched on the monumental Bush hubris here and in the comments. Bush was so arrogant, he felt he could dispense with the very thing that got him elected. He then deliberately set out to destroy the limited government groundwork laid by Ronald Reagan. Why? Because he. knew. better. Reagan winning landslides and himself sitting in the Oval Office wasn't enough evidence for him to consider a different outlook.

Because dummies and blockheads are immune to proof.

Open thread. Follow me on Twitter.

Posted by: rdbrewer at 02:04 PM



Comments

1 Firstish?

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at November 17, 2012 02:08 PM (Yv6gq)

2 Muhahahaha. Bow before Jojo. The name so nice you gotta say it twice.

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at November 17, 2012 02:08 PM (Yv6gq)

3 The rule against former CIA directors running for president was broken with Poppy Bush as well.

Posted by: Capt. Obvious at November 17, 2012 02:09 PM (AzwZn)

4 SCOAMF! JEF! TFG! End thread. We got it covered.

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at November 17, 2012 02:09 PM (Yv6gq)

5 Yale and Harvard grads are much smarter than us rubes in flyover country.

Posted by: huerfano at November 17, 2012 02:09 PM (bAGA/)

6 Read my lips....

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:10 PM (XFOvX)

7
Hey, you know what'd teach that guy some humility? Let's name an aircraft carrier after him!

Posted by: The Republicans

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 17, 2012 02:10 PM (kdS6q)

8 And now we have dozens of horrible Bushies running around these days, constantly shitting on conservatism. That is Bush's legacy. Permanent injury to the cause of limited government.

So, who's the dummy? You can have all the dignity in the world, but if your arrogance runs unchecked, you make bad choices. And that's pretty stupid.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:11 PM (Iyg03)

9 Once we all realize and admit the Bushies are rather progressives, and not really concerned with individual rights and liberties, the better off we will be. They have made sure that govt has grown more powerful over the last 30 years. Bush got us Obama. And Clinton before that. And they did almost nothing to reverse any trends or gains the left made.

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at November 17, 2012 02:11 PM (Yv6gq)

10
"Reagan is a conservative. An extreme conservative. All the blockheads
and dummies are for him, and when he says that something is necessary,
they trust him."

^Bush 41 said this?^

This is a quote from him?

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 02:11 PM (ICEh3)

11 I take exception to that, because I know better.

Posted by: David Gergen at November 17, 2012 02:11 PM (Iyg03)

12 Gergen may have the best gig in the world.....wonder what it pays?

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:13 PM (XFOvX)

13 So much of it is just a set-up folks. Slowly erode the fabric of America and continually weaken the dollar. No more nominees of any sort from the Ivy League folks. Those institutions are completely corrupted. Why take over all America when all you have to do is strategically infiltrate key academic institutions? Collectivists are very smart in their use of resources.

Posted by: Koenig Jojo at November 17, 2012 02:14 PM (Yv6gq)

14 Yeah......like Juan McLame, I'll respect the pilot.

That's it.

The problem at the time was: Who else was there?

There was precious little to choose from in the ranks of Conservatism and STILL Poppy would have won if not for H. Ross Jackass.

That was the Reagan appeal. The Reagan success.

..and it was thrown away for a rapist.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 02:14 PM (2Rwdk)

15 I was at the 1980 convention when Bush one was nominated. We were pissed that the East coast Rino money had any say.

Kemp was the man in 1980. Remember they floated a Ford Regan co presidency? That got shot down ASAP. I was with Jesse Helms and they were not happy about any on it.

Bush is and always had been a rich rino, that god for him, married well. The Bushes were broke till he got married. He was never a conservative.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 17, 2012 02:16 PM (t8d2s)

16
Remember, the term "Voodoo Economics" to describe Reagan's fiscal policy wasn't invented by the Donks.

I'll give you just one guess as to who coined the term and popularized it during the primary debates.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 17, 2012 02:17 PM (Rhie+)

17 What did GHB do now?

Whatever it was, he wasn't as bad as that Harding fellow. I blame Warren.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:17 PM (BeSEI)

18 "Reagan is a conservative. An extreme conservative. All the blockheads and dummies are for him, and when he says that something is necessary, they trust him."

If that was 41 in 2009, he sure doesn't understand tense.


....among other things.

Reagan worked.

Bush(s), not so much.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 02:18 PM (2Rwdk)

19 Stay out da' Bushes - Doctor Reverend Doctor Sir Jessie Jackson

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 17, 2012 02:18 PM (4h0z0)

20
Yeah......like Juan McLame, I'll respect the pilot.

That's it.

Yep

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at November 17, 2012 02:19 PM (R8hU8)

21 Sad and true.

Posted by: eman at November 17, 2012 02:20 PM (sRus3)

22 Read my lips...He will never in a 1000yrs, live this down.

Posted by: sTevo at November 17, 2012 02:20 PM (VMcEw)

23 What?.....George Sr.'s pappy or grand-pappy was a senator....show me a senator who came home from DC broke.

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:20 PM (XFOvX)

24 6 Read my lips....

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:10 PM (XFOvX)




http://tinyurl.com/aze7m9t

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 02:21 PM (GEICT)

25 Remember, the term "Voodoo Economics" to describe Reagan's fiscal policy wasn't invented by the Donks.

Yes. Oddly, it's about the only video bite I remember from that. 41 looked like a raving jackass saying it, too. Arms waving and shit. I laughed.

..until we got the rapist.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 02:21 PM (2Rwdk)

26 And frankly, if you are going to name-drop ex-Presidents to idolize, I wouldn't start with Reagan. Federal deficits soared under Reagan.

You have to go back to Coolidge to find an R President who espoused anything like the smaller government policies.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:22 PM (BeSEI)

27 WTF......

Posted by: crowsting at November 17, 2012 02:23 PM (yNhZJ)

28 I'm a bigger fan of the son (no, not Jeb) than most.

The father, not so much.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 17, 2012 02:23 PM (jfUIE)

29
I met GHWB in 1984when I was a kid, and he was just about the nicest politician I've ever met. He's also a war hero and a very decent man.
But this thesis is correct. Sr. Jr. Bush were an absolute catastrophe to the Republican party, and it's unbelievable how so many conservatives still don't realize that. I got a Tea Party update on my Facebook the other day with a picture of GWB with the capton "Miss me yet".
Uh no, you're not the President I miss.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 17, 2012 02:24 PM (8cOY0)

30 RR had to accept HWB as his VP because the Conservatives did not have enough clout to override the GOP moderates.

HWB got the Oval Office because he ran a tough, hard-hitting campaign against Democrat weak shit and he had RR inertia helping him along.

The Conservatives had no one to replace RR and we ended up with Clinto.Bush for sixteen years.

The death of Lee Atwater was a mortal blow.


Posted by: eman at November 17, 2012 02:25 PM (sRus3)

31 What the fuck is that?

Posted by: Rutherford B. Hayes, at a demonstration of a steam-driven supermarket scanner at November 17, 2012 02:25 PM (pwyhn)

32 Jeb 2016!

The Die-Nasty continyuhs!

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 17, 2012 02:25 PM (JJ+PT)

33 Just think, If Petraeus hadn't tapped Ms Broadwell, he could of had a shot at VP, and then President, one day.

Thinking with his little head really did him in.

Of course, if he had kept it quiet, like GHWB did, who knows how high up he could have gone.


Posted by: sTevo at November 17, 2012 02:25 PM (VMcEw)

34 And frankly, if you are going to name-drop ex-Presidents to idolize, I wouldn't start with Reagan. Federal deficits soared under Reagan.

You have to go back to Coolidge to find an R President who espoused anything like the smaller government policies.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:22 PM (BeSEI)

The Democrat Congress caused those high debts. RR lowed taxes and created a boom by doing so.

Posted by: eman at November 17, 2012 02:26 PM (sRus3)

35 Inertia? I think you might mean momentum.

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:26 PM (XFOvX)

36
Just think, If Petraeus hadn't tapped Ms Broadwell, he could of had a shot at VP, and then President, one day.


Word.

Posted by: John Edwards at November 17, 2012 02:26 PM (pwyhn)

37 I liked him. The things he said about Reagan were said in the heat of a tough primary, when lots of dumb things get said. He was a very loyal vice president and I thought he was a good president. Also it's easy to forget what the '87 recession was like, when every other house had a For Sale sign on it. He made a dumb deal with the Dems, but a cogent case can be made that they betrayed him and his good will.

Posted by: Cricket at November 17, 2012 02:27 PM (2ArJQ)

38 This is an extraordinarily facile main blog post, but altogether typical of the uneducated, irrational and reactionary Internet demographic.

In reality Reagan's greatest mistake was doing nothing after Beirut. The likes of bin Laden took notice.

The blanket amnesty for illegals was a monumental error. So too was raising payroll taxes for Social Security.

O'Conner and Kennedy were huge mistakes. Especially Kennedy. Available were the likes of H. Wilkinson, Ken Starr, Danny Boggs and others.

Of course Iran-Contra didn't exactly cover his banner with glory.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at November 17, 2012 02:27 PM (r2PLg)

39 Bush 41 was a sneaky little shit !
Although I respect him and his son for their service , they're BIG Government type politicians which has contributed to our current fiscal mess...

Posted by: AmericanDawg at November 17, 2012 02:27 PM (XIsD/)

40 ...because when a former General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union paraphrases, we know he's telling the truth.

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 02:28 PM (fXInK)

41 Can't wait for Jeb Bush to set us all straight.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows we have a kinder, gentler tyranny at November 17, 2012 02:28 PM (Lxw+T)

42 The Democrat Congress caused those high debts. RR lowed taxes and created a boom by doing so.

Posted by: eman
---

And the Dem Congress was drunk on spending, never understanding the mechanism for the new cash flow.

Posted by: sTevo at November 17, 2012 02:28 PM (VMcEw)

43 34 -

I know. And??

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:29 PM (BeSEI)

44 Booosh!

Posted by: MFM at November 17, 2012 02:30 PM (JJ+PT)

45

The Quote under the picture of Bush 41...is from Gorbachev.
Gorbachev is saying, that Bush 41 said this.

So we don't know if it is something that Bush 41 actually said, or not.

But it sounds like something that a Northeastern elitist would say.

What gets me...is that there is this prevailing prejudice against midwestern Conservative leaders, because of their 'accents'.
Bush 43 had an 'accent'.
But he was a hybrid Northeasterner/Texan...so he was 'okay'.

Conservatives across the country, are going to have to get over their strange aversion to someone's accent...since most of our staunchest conservatives are coming out of places where people have an accent.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 02:30 PM (ICEh3)

46 I'd be very cautious before I took a comment from Gorbachev as quoted in The Nation as 100% accurate.

But it certainly is consistent w/the GHWBush record, in any event.

And now these GOP hacks are pushing Jeb for 2016. Just what we don't need.

Posted by: jewishodysseus at November 17, 2012 02:30 PM (+iqDb)

47

I'm not gonna believe a goddam word printed in The Nation.

A quote by a cold war commie, to boot!

Fuckin knuckleheads.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 02:30 PM (J6JEv)

48

Meanwhile, the Stupid Party keeps wondering why they keep getting their asses handed to them by the dems.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 17, 2012 02:31 PM (1PE/J)

49 37 -

But that doesn't fit the narrative. Reagan was a god, and if it wasn't for Bush we would all be living in marshmallow houses and chocolate rivers.

Funny how people laugh about Obama blaming Bush...

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:32 PM (BeSEI)

50 The only reason I'd want a Bush 45 is to watch the lamentations of the left. Also for the puns. "Millions of Jebs created"..."Jeb creation is a priority of this administration"..."Bush-me-Paul-you ticket"...etc

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 02:33 PM (fXInK)

51 There was a Fox news reporter that said Jeb would be a lock if he ran in the next election. I hope not. I'd stay home, and my response to those who tried to guilt me into voting R would be, "Fuck you, no mas."

Posted by: Beautiful Loser at November 17, 2012 02:33 PM (OQpzc)

52

Look at the state of our 'base.'

This is petty picayune bullshit. Lauraw posts something constructive and idea-generating.

And then there's this.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 02:33 PM (I87cK)

53 Read.My.Lips

No more Bushes

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 02:34 PM (piMMO)

54 I hate the Bush's.

Fucking Souter

Fucking Roberts.

They blow

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 17, 2012 02:35 PM (++kZl)

55 52 - For real.

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 02:35 PM (fXInK)

56 45 Seriously?

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:35 PM (XFOvX)

57 This is total bullshit.

Posted by: David Frum at November 17, 2012 02:35 PM (Iyg03)

58 And the fucking MSM got the taste for the blood-sport of character-assassinating Republicans from his supermarket-scanner remarks. I know he didn't express amazement like the MSM said he did, but he didn't bother to tell them to tell the truth or STFU either!

Lesson #1: don't try to "stay above the fray". Your enemies are down there throwing dirt at you, and Joe Sixpack ain't gonna respect you for being nice when all he hears about you for 6 months is what an asshole you are. And if you don't care what Joe thinks then go run for somebody else's party, asshole.

Lesson #2: don't try to be liked by the media. All that does is show them you are a chump. Use the FYNQ technique early and often - if you haven't figured it out yet, the people who want to vote for you de-fucking-spise the media!

Posted by: sherlock at November 17, 2012 02:36 PM (f29LO)

59 It even sound like Bush's phrasing.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:36 PM (Iyg03)

60 Smarter and more nuanced people turn their back on limited government conservatism.

Posted by: Karl Rove at November 17, 2012 02:37 PM (Iyg03)

61 There was a Fox news reporter that said Jeb would be a lock if he ran in
the next election. I hope not. I'd stay home, and my response to those
who tried to guilt me into voting R would be, "Fuck you, no mas."


****

Bullshit!

Between them, Jeb and Rubio couldn't help deliver the Hispanic vote last week, in Florida, their home-state.

Jeb may have been a very popular governor, but he hasn't been a governor for years and goodwill towards him has shifted considerably.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 02:37 PM (piMMO)

62 Poppy Bush was the clown who enabled the Socon wackos to take over the GOP. Akins, Santorum and Bachmann were made possible by Bush 41 and his family values garbage.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM (KVrHS)

63 A few minor points:

1. GHWB and GWB were patriotic Americans.

2. They did dumb stuff at times, but we survived. And if GWB hadn't been followed by a free-spending incompetent traitor, no one would be talking about GWB's dumbshit "economic" moves.

3. We survived one Kennedy in the White House and two more in Congress, all with relatively minor damage. Ditto for Gores.

However, it would be best for the country if no more Bushes, Clintons or Kennedys are allowed to hold public office for a minimum of 300 years.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM (yKUrR)

64 THE ONLY PLACE A BUSH BELONGS IS IN YOUR YARD OR IN YOUR PANTS!

NO MORE BUSHIES IN THE WHITE HOUSE EVER!

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM (ovpNn)

65 I think we've had enough of the Rockefeller Bushes.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM (Iyg03)

66 And then there's this.
Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 02:33 PM (I87cK)

Which represents the opinion of a large portion of those you want to vote R. Go ahead and show your disdain. I hope you gain more votes than you lose.

Posted by: Beautiful Loser at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM (OQpzc)

67 No wonder I was sick of that ass by '92.

Fucking Yale.

Posted by: eleven at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM (fsLdt)

68
Jeb may have been a very popular governor, but he hasn't been a governor for years and goodwill towards him has shifted considerably.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 02:37 PM (piMMO)


Umm, he's a bush, you know, an evil Bush.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 02:39 PM (3Y7RV)

69 The Bushes allowed the Theocrats to take over the Republican party.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:39 PM (KVrHS)

70 Bush family = big govt statists = progressives

"There will be a new world order"

Posted by: In Cognito at November 17, 2012 02:39 PM (3R0Zs)

71 34 And frankly, if you are going to name-drop ex-Presidents to idolize, I wouldn't start with Reagan. Federal deficits soared under Reagan.

So did revenue. So did a stagnant economy. The military was rebuilt. Not cheap.

Those deficits were starting to plateau and federal outlays were ready to drop.

Then came 41.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 02:39 PM (2Rwdk)

72 Because when I think of trustworthy sources, I think of Splotch-Top and the Nation.

Posted by: Secundus at November 17, 2012 02:40 PM (g3jwX)

73
Poppy Bush was the clown who enabled the Socon wackos to take over the
GOP.


Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM


Nelson Rockefeller would beg to differ.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 17, 2012 02:40 PM (yKUrR)

74 Brain trust showed up.

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:40 PM (XFOvX)

75 Umm, he's a bush, you know, an evil Bush.


****

It's more than his last name. It's his condescending lectures as well.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 02:40 PM (piMMO)

76 @ 61 Niedermeyer's Dead Horse

Rubio was not on the ballot. The Republicans are viewed as Nazis by Hispanics because of the Socon/Nativist scum.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:41 PM (KVrHS)

77 I wonder how different things would have turned out if Reagan had told the establishment to stuff it and picked someone like Kemp?

Posted by: rockhead at November 17, 2012 02:41 PM (jtTKf)

78 62 Poppy Bush was the clown who enabled the Socon wackos to take over the GOP. Akins, Santorum and Bachmann were made possible by Bush 41 and his family values garbage.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:38 PM (KVrHS)


I don't know if I would throw Bachman in that group. Socon? Yeah. But OMG has she be the lone screaming wolf on fiscal matters. She's worth her weight.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 02:41 PM (3Y7RV)

79 Anyone who believes a single word out of Gorbachev's mouth is worse than a dummy and a blockhead.

Posted by: Adjoran at November 17, 2012 02:42 PM (ZHQvg)

80 @ 73 MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir

Poppy Bush allied with the Socons and enabled them to put a boot around the neck of Reagan/Godlwater Conservatives. That's why he ran on family values and school prayer. W was even worse. He made sure the Theocrats got control of the party.

I hope the Bush family burn in hell.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:42 PM (KVrHS)

81 Rubio was not on the ballot. The Republicans are viewed as Nazis by Hispanics because of the Socon/Nativist scum.


****

I am aware that Rubio was not on the ballot, but for all the supposed influence he and Jeb have with the community, how were they able to parlay that influence to persuade voters?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 02:43 PM (piMMO)

82 @ 78 Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny

She's a hysteric and nut job. I am sick of these Socon Fascists.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:43 PM (KVrHS)

83 Mega....er.......Meghan.......obsess much?

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:44 PM (XFOvX)

84 Bachman is solid on fiscal issues and has the ROP's number down pat but when I look in her eyes I see a crazy zealot.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at November 17, 2012 02:44 PM (jts1f)

85 because of the Socon/Nativist scum.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:41 PM (KVrHS)

It is a free country, kind of. Change the platform so socons can't vote for you. Let me know how that works for you.

Posted by: Beautiful Loser at November 17, 2012 02:45 PM (OQpzc)

86 yeah I'm not so keen on citing commies as authoritative references for why a guy on our team sucks.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 02:45 PM (d/5qf)

87 I'd like to believe if we ran a Reagan instead of a MA blue blood, we would have won. I don't think it's possible. We've imported too much poverty and the Dems have taken away all stigma that used to be attached to welfare.

Posted by: just L at November 17, 2012 02:45 PM (0PiQ4)

88 @ 81 Niedermeyer's Dead Horse

Until the GOP purges the Nativist wing, they will never make inroads with Hispanics. W for all his faults was able to get 44% because he was not a Nativists. Then after 2004 the Nativists allied with the Socons and took over the Party. Until the Natvist Nazi scum are driven from the GOP, we will continue to lose Florida, Nevada and Colorado.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:45 PM (KVrHS)

89 "It even sound [sic] like Bush's phrasing."

"I think we've had enough of the Rockefeller Bushes."

It'd be cool if you could find a non-Nation, non-Gorbachev quote to support your witch hunt thread.


Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 02:45 PM (fXInK)

90 She's a hysteric and nut job. I am sick of these Socon Fascists.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:43 PM (KVrHS)

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. When I spent my money and time to march on washington with the misses on March 22 of 2010, the march to stop Obamacare. She was out there fighting like a wildcat while many of the rest were cowering under their desks.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 02:46 PM (3Y7RV)

91

>>> Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:39 PM (KVrHS)

Don't you have a set of stairs you need to be under?

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 02:46 PM (BIKWJ)

92 Let's not forget we were 40 miles from Baghdad and he called off the dogs. That cost thousands of American lives 10 years later (and tons of money).... and he left Saddam free to hunt down his opposition marsh Arabs with helicopters like Sarah on a wolf hunt.

Posted by: torabora at November 17, 2012 02:46 PM (gbtFj)

93 How about Bush's record, Wago?

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (Iyg03)

94 @ 85 Beautiful Loser

The Socons and their Natvist allies have a surprise coming. Real Conservatives and Libertarians are going to wrest control away from these Fascists. The knives are out and we are ready for take back our party.

It's going to shock Socons and Nativists how many Republicans hate them.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (KVrHS)

95 Right......McPain was a nativist.....sure.

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (XFOvX)

96 When the Iran/Contra affair broke, Reagan acted like he knew nothing, and gave the impression there were lone wolf cowboys running around setting their own policy in the White House.

Thus creating the image of Republican candidates as out of touch morons, with all sorts of eeeeeeeeevil lurking in the dark recesses of their Administrations.

Romney lost, as least as much because of that perception as he did because of the perception that he was an eastern liberal.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (BeSEI)

97 Kemp was sharp. At Empower America he and Bennett would tear an issue apart.

Posted by: Jean at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (liPvR)

98 The take-away on this....so far....is that Socons, Ficons, Progressives, and Statists took over the GOP.

Circular Firing Squad! Atten.......Shun!

Ready! Fire! Aim!

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (L7hol)

99 84 Bachman is solid on fiscal issues and has the ROP's number down pat but when I look in her eyes I see a crazy zealot.
Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at November 17, 2012 02:44 PM (jts1f)

And when I look into Obama's or Shumer's or Pelosi's eyes. I see the same thing. Sometimes when you do battle with monsters you have to be a bigger badder one.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 02:48 PM (3Y7RV)

100 @ 90 Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny

She maybe good on fiscal issues, but her Theocratic stances are a turn off.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:48 PM (KVrHS)

101 I wasn't 'cowering' under that desk. I was working.

Posted by: Paula 'Kneepads' Broadwell at November 17, 2012 02:49 PM (gbtFj)

102 your witch hunt thread.
Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 02:45 PM (fXInK)

Who cares about the quote. Their record was enough to never go near their radioactive statist family again.

Posted by: Beautiful Loser at November 17, 2012 02:50 PM (OQpzc)

103 The Bush Crime Family created the Theocratic monster. Then the Theocrats allied with Nativists/Nazis. They need to be purged from the GOP.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:50 PM (KVrHS)

104 Mega? Instead of concerned "conservatives", we get arrogant ones.

Posted by: Jean at November 17, 2012 02:50 PM (liPvR)

105 Meghan McCain: "Read my hips"!

...

*adecadelater*

...

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 17, 2012 02:50 PM (3H6Pa)

106 Let. Mega. Burn.

Posted by: Methos at November 17, 2012 02:50 PM (hO9ad)

107 And sheesh, why are we re-fighting battles from 20+ years ago? I think there is general consensus, no more Bushes are going to win, for perhaps the next 40 years.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 02:51 PM (d/5qf)

108
ah, it's you, Dildo #2



Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 02:51 PM (VvJwq)

109 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 02:46 PM (3Y7RV)

It's a troll. Don't bother.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 02:51 PM (GsoHv)

110 It's going to shock Socons and Nativists how many Republicans hate them.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (KVrHS)

Nativists? .. are you Hector?

Posted by: osu at November 17, 2012 02:51 PM (xR46S)

111 26 And frankly, if you are going to name-drop ex-Presidents to idolize, I wouldn't start with Reagan. Federal deficits soared under Reagan.

You have to go back to Coolidge to find an R President who espoused anything like the smaller government policies.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:22 PM (BeSEI)


Deficits don't matter. Not if you're financing productivity.
Growth matters. And The Culture. Because the single flaw of economic growth is that it disproportionally benefits those who participate in the economy. And, as we know, half of us don't.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 17, 2012 02:51 PM (jfUIE)

112 We need a candidate that cheats on his wife while he lies to the American people.

Posted by: Progressive Republican at November 17, 2012 02:52 PM (gbtFj)

113 So, Mega, what's your plan? Kick out anyone who believes in God or immigration laws and rely on the Hispanic lobby to make up the numbers? Good luck with that.

Posted by: Secundus at November 17, 2012 02:52 PM (g3jwX)

114 I'll take that as a no then? I'd like to see support for the assertion that the Bushes *deliberately*
attempted to destroy the framework of limited government.

Contributed to it with poor decisions? Perhaps...I don't think anyone would argue that. But the idea that Bush-41 and Bush-43 were Fifth Column Progressives demands more than a Nation quote from Gorbachev and is hard to justify as being of much utility anyway, other than as a hit piece.

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 02:52 PM (fXInK)

115 >>>And sheesh, why are we re-fighting battles from 20+ years ago?

So we can understand what is wrong with the party today.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:52 PM (Iyg03)

116 @ 107 chemjeff-husker

The stench of the Bushes still is in the GOP. Akins, Santorum and Bachmann are the creation of the Bush family. Karl Rove still has influences in the part. Jeb Bush is still lurking and now George P. Bush is looking at running for office. The Bush Crime Family is alive and well.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:52 PM (KVrHS)

117 My favorite meme this election was my lefty Facebook friends saying "Ronald Reagan couldn't be elected as a Republican today."

I guess because he was so much more liberal than the former governor of freaking Massachusetts.

Posted by: Palandine at November 17, 2012 02:52 PM (g7D8V)

118 Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 02:51 PM (d/5qf)

Rumor has it that you have a chemistry set in your basement.....

So, what's a good solvent for the glue that they use to stick labels on bottles? I have tried an acid (vinegar) and that doesn't work.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 02:53 PM (GsoHv)

119 The Socons and their Natvist allies have a surprise coming. Real Conservatives and Libertarians are going to wrest control away from these Fascists. The knives are out and we are ready for take back our party.It's going to shock Socons and Nativists how many Republicans hate them.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (KVrHS)


YouRonulans are going to get a heck of a shock, too, I bet, when you see just how few "real conservatives" there actually are. Even worse, you might actually win, and then you will find out how closely linked religious beliefs and political liberties actually are....

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 02:53 PM (LQjA9)

120
It's a troll. Don't bother.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 02:51 PM (GsoHv)

Oh, thanks dude.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 02:53 PM (3Y7RV)

121 Wago, you think my assertion is based on one Gorbachev quote?

You're a smart one.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:53 PM (Iyg03)

122 It's going to shock Socons and Nativists how many Republicans hate them.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:47 PM (KVrHS)

I know you are going for the "big troll" thing, but the fact reamains that the Bush family can FOAD.
That is not a joke. Nominate them, and the entire party can FOAD.

Posted by: Beautiful Loser at November 17, 2012 02:53 PM (OQpzc)

123 Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:52 PM (KVrHS)

Try harder little boy.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 02:53 PM (GsoHv)

124 45 -

Oh, and Wheatie, since this is the "let's dredge up ancient history so we can bash each other thread," the reason we don't nominate midwesterners with funny accents anymore is because of that Lincoln fellow.

His accent was so bad, they shot him for it.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:54 PM (BeSEI)

125 @ 113 Secundus
There's nothing wrong with believing in God but should not be political agenda. As for Hispanic, we need to go after Middle class and Business owners. All we need is 40%. I would rather have Middle Class Hispanics in the GOP than White trash Nativist Nazis or Bible thumping snake handles. At least Hispanics like to have fun and are cool people!

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:55 PM (KVrHS)

126 I don't approve of this thread.

Posted by: Dana Carvey at November 17, 2012 02:55 PM (N52Ot)

127 To have any success, we must have the GOP coalition of the 1930s and 1940s.

Posted by: Giga at November 17, 2012 02:55 PM (hO9ad)

128 Mega, do you like gladiator movies???

Posted by: Isaac Davis White at November 17, 2012 02:55 PM (Dll6b)

129 115 -

If that were true, this post would be about Teddy Roosevelt.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:55 PM (BeSEI)

130 @122 Beautiful Loser

I agree the Bush family should FOAD and go burn in hell.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:56 PM (KVrHS)

131 "Wago, you think my assertion is based on one Gorbachev quote?

You're a smart one."

No, I'd just like to see someone who posts a thread back it up with cogent points. Your post is a quote, an assertion about hubris, an assertion that they "knew better", an assertion that they *deliberately* destroyed Reagan's work, etc.

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 02:56 PM (fXInK)

132
So, what's a good solvent for the glue that they use to stick labels on
bottles? I have tried an acid (vinegar) and that doesn't work.


If you're just trying to strip the label, and glue off the bottles, use cooking oil.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at November 17, 2012 02:56 PM (L7hol)

133 fuck.....it's an idiot troll

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 02:57 PM (XFOvX)

134 Mega, you wanna take a time out for a bit?

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:57 PM (Iyg03)

135 @ 119 Grey Fox

Sorry America is not Iran nor Saudi Arabia and it will never be. Keep dreaming of a Theocratic utopia that will never happen.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:57 PM (KVrHS)

136

Dildo #2 = hector = mega



Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 02:58 PM (+oin+)

137 Repubs should nominate someone from Fargo. The place, not the movie


or nominate someone from the movie Fargo who's also from Fargo. 'Cause it's all about the accent...

Posted by: Isaac Davis White at November 17, 2012 02:58 PM (Dll6b)

138 At least Hispanics like to have fun and are cool people!

Shit. Mega isn't even a troll but a parody troll.

I'm so confused.

Posted by: Giga at November 17, 2012 02:58 PM (hO9ad)

139 Wago, maybe you should click on the link that referenced a prior post.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 02:58 PM (Iyg03)

140 Anyone want to discuss Prescott Bush's dealing with the Nazis? How about the Bush family's ties with the Saudis?

Anyone want to discuss these topics?

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:58 PM (KVrHS)

141 I can't help but wonder about people who cannot make their point without vitriolic hyperbole towards their opponents. Its funny, since some of the most anti-illegal immigrant people I know are legal immigrants. And some of the most religious people I know are hispanic.

So, it seems to me that attempting to kick out the social conservatives and the anti-illegal group could backfire quite spectacularly. It is not a binary system where you give up one group to gain another.

Posted by: ChrisValentine at November 17, 2012 02:59 PM (ht3c8)

142 Mega, you wanna take a time out for a bit?

I gots his Time out. Back to work mega bitch Mutha fucka, Ise tol you time and time again to stay offen dat puter, da are dicks to be sucked and chicken to be fried, don't makes me takes off my belt bitch.

Posted by: Tyrone Velvet, proprietor, Tyrone's coin operated glory hole and transgendered chicken shack at November 17, 2012 02:59 PM (3Y7RV)

143 I think Reagan did the best that he could. The reason why he is revered by conservatives is because he really WAS one, he truly understood and believed in conservative values.
He had to govern from the center. He had to make compromises but at least he SAW them as compromises between what he wanted and what the Dems insisted on.

Nothing personal against the Bushes, who seem to me to be very decent people, especially as pols go. But their "compromises" weren't really compromises. The Bushes were already in the middle.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at November 17, 2012 02:59 PM (C8mVl)

144 Prescott Bush is in Arizona. Hot, but it's a dry heat...

Posted by: Isaac Davis White at November 17, 2012 03:00 PM (Dll6b)

145
135 @ 119 Grey FoxSorry America is not Iran nor Saudi Arabia and it will never be. Keep dreaming of a Theocratic utopia that will never happen.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:57 PM (KVrHS)


Because not slaughtering babies and eulogizing sodomy is theocracy, right?

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 03:00 PM (LQjA9)

146 Goo Gone, then DNA Zap. That should get all the evidence off of the bottles. We don't need to know what you did.

Posted by: Jean at November 17, 2012 03:00 PM (tWctt)

147 Purell (alchohol) works, too.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2012 03:00 PM (N52Ot)

148 And when I look into Obama's or Shumer's or Pelosi's eyes. I see the same thing. Sometimes when you do battle with monsters you have to be a bigger badder one. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 02:48 PM (3Y7RV)

I see craven thieves rather than people who think they are God's own avenger.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at November 17, 2012 03:00 PM (jts1f)

149
would rather have Middle Class Hispanics in the GOP than White trash Nativist Nazis or Bible thumping snake handles.

Posted by: Mega






Baby's First Troll (tm) by Playskool



Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 17, 2012 03:00 PM (kdS6q)

150 @41 ChrisValentine

The anti-illegal stuff is just an excuse for bigotry against Hispanics. It's cover and the American people are no longer fool. Most Americans like Hispanics. This is something the White Trash Nativists don't get.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 03:01 PM (KVrHS)

151 All I know is this; if Carl Rove thinks that what we need is another Bush, well then you better believe it, chum. He knows who F.A. Hayek is, and shit.

Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 03:01 PM (mqdAz)

152

you guys are losing it
this is the same troll probably from Sadly No or Balloon Juice that's been here for months

hector can come back here as 'hectar' and half of you would be none the wiser

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 03:01 PM (Y4TdB)

153 I'm convinced that serving in the diplomatic corps is disqualifying for the office of POTUS, early founding fathers excluded.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 03:01 PM (5H6zj)

154 @145 Grey Fox

What people do is between them and God. This is not Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 03:01 PM (KVrHS)

155 I'd like to believe if we ran a Reagan instead of a MA blue blood, we
would have won. I don't think it's possible. We've imported too much
poverty and the Dems have taken away all stigma that used to be attached
to welfare.


Don't take the wrong lessons from the election. Romney lost because he followed the Karl Rove playbook of letting the opposition define him, not defending himself or Republican policies, and refusing the attack his opponent effectively.

The vote came down to 370,000 votes in four swing states.

Votes for Gary Johnson and Republicans who stayed home just barely cost us this election. The fabled Democratic ground game produced 8 million fewer voters for Obama. All the techie geniuses from Twitter and Facebook who pitched in produced 8 million fewer voters.

Romney would've made a great president, but he was a fatally flawed candidate (Romenycare and his image as a "vulture capitalist") who made fatal decisions (refusing to hang the responsibility for the economy around Obama's neck and agreeing with the president on too much).

In the end the voters chose the devil they knew rather than possibly make things worse. They wanted better, but they felt--just barely--that they couldn't risk a Romney presidency. They liked Romney as much as they liked Obama; they just didn't want to roll the dice with Romney.

The election was lost by a combination of Romney being a less-than-optimal candidate and performing relatively poorly, which produced the third factor: low voter turnout.

All we need to win is better candidates who fight back, defend themselves, and effectively explain conservative ideals. The proof of this is that Romney completely neutralized the Mediscaring strategy, forcing the Democrats to go for "He's the same as Bush!" and the war on women.

That didn't win the Dems the election; Romney lost the election because he didn't address these attacks effectively.

Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 03:01 PM (hzR9T)

156 Our two trolls would do better if they could name one person who was a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. Scott Brown and Schwarzenegger fail on the fiscal side. Perhaps Gary Johnson? Shoot, even Luap Nor is unabashedly pro-life.

So come on, trolls--show us these marching legions of social liberals who are also fiscal conservatives.

Posted by: Palandine at November 17, 2012 03:02 PM (g7D8V)

157 I sense a retard in the force.

Posted by: eleven at November 17, 2012 03:02 PM (fsLdt)

158 I see craven thieves rather than people who think they are God's own avenger.

Says you, WHITEY!!

Posted by: Prof. Barbara A. Johnson at November 17, 2012 03:02 PM (IDypm)

159 Sorry America is not Iran nor Saudi Arabia and it will never be. Keep dreaming of a Theocratic utopia that will never happen.

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:57 PM (KVrHS)

We're already mostly there. Only difference is, the theocrats pray at the altar of Gaia, ovaries, wind turbines and white guilt. The end result is identical.

Posted by: Secundus at November 17, 2012 03:02 PM (g3jwX)

160 144 Prescott Bush is in Arizona. Hot, but it's a dry heat...
Posted by: Isaac Davis White at November 17, 2012 03:00 PM (Dll6b)

so's my oven

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 03:02 PM (XFOvX)

161 Tell me, Hector, why believing that freedom is inherently good and forced equality is less of a religious/philosophical judgement than being pro-life and anti-gay marriage.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 03:02 PM (LQjA9)

162 The Bush Crime Family created the Theocratic monster. Then the Theocrats
allied with Nativists/Nazis. They need to be purged from the GOP.


******


CRIME FAMILY?!

WTF are you talking about?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:03 PM (piMMO)

163 No frickin shit. The GOP should never nominate a Ivy Leaguer again. Bush 1 was a joke, but I still respect George W for winning two elections against the Marxist media

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 03:03 PM (4WesI)

164 >>Goo Gone, then DNA Zap.


Now you fucking tell me.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at November 17, 2012 03:03 PM (N52Ot)

165 Im confused, our target demo should be gay hispanics who smoke pot, work at an abortion clinic and don't like taxes? All three of them?

Posted by: Jean at November 17, 2012 03:03 PM (tWctt)

166 Anyone want to discuss these topics?
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 02:58 PM (KVrHS)

If you read the whole story, Prescott's ties were to a German industrialist who had big enough brass balls to oppose the nazis in late 1930s Germany. He needs to appologize to no one.

Prescott isn't the Bush who needs to hang his head in shame.

Posted by: Beautiful Loser at November 17, 2012 03:04 PM (OQpzc)

167 The Socon and Nativist hold on the GOP is coming to an end. I am going to enjoy the purge that's coming and seeing The Theocrats and their White Trash Nazi allies whine like girls.

The Republican party will be reborn and once again we will be the party of Liberty and Capitalism. A party for all Americans!

Good by losers!

Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 03:04 PM (KVrHS)

168 What people do is between them and God. This is not Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Mega at November 17, 2012 03:01 PM (KVrHS)


That is an interesting theological argument. What do you base it on?

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 03:04 PM (LQjA9)

169 The election was lost by a combination of Romney being a less-than-optimal candidate and performing relatively poorly, which produced the third factor: low voter turnout.

Or maybe half the people in America are Stuttering Clusterfucks of Miserable Shitfail.

Posted by: eleven at November 17, 2012 03:04 PM (fsLdt)

170 Are we still replying to troll Hector. The same genius who told us the Dems would win the House

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 03:04 PM (4WesI)

171 I saw a thread that basically said every GOP candidate since Reagan has been a RINO and that Romney ran as a statist corporatist.

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 03:04 PM (fXInK)

172 Posted by: Tyrone Velvet, proprietor, Tyrone's coin operated glory hole
and transgendered chicken shack at November 17, 2012 02:59 PM (3Y7RV)


*****

transgendered chickens?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:05 PM (piMMO)

173
The title of the thread...."Reagan's Greatest Mistake"....doesn't take into account that Reagan really had no choice, in having Bush41 as his running mate.

It was a big fight at the Convention that year, in 1980.
Reagan needed the financial help from the Republican Party...and the only way he was going to get it, was with having Bush on the ticket.

Reagan had the populist appeal, and he is who the majority of the people wanted.
Bush had the elitist appeal.
The party leaders were at a standoff.
And so the Reagan/Bush ticket was the solution to the standoff.

So it's not like Reagan had much of a choice in having Bush41 as his running mate.

Having said this...I will add, that I voted for Bush41...twice.
And I voted for Bush43...twice.
What choice was there?

My biggest problem with the Bushes, both of them, is that they did not fight for conservative ideas...they didn't defend their decisions.
Their silence allowed the Dems and the Dem-media to demonize them...and us.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 03:05 PM (ICEh3)

174 You're arguing with a troll who thinks Chetniks fought against the Nazis.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 17, 2012 03:05 PM (QK8qV)

175 119...how closely linked religious beliefs and political liberties actually are....

Dr Fred Graves had a long illumination and lesson of this subject on his radio show "Jurisdictionary". I believe the secularization and attack on the Christian beliefs are a tool the tyrannical class are employing to eliminate any legal defense of the individual citizen.

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at November 17, 2012 03:06 PM (BAnPT)

176 (I do find interesting all of the heated debates here. Anyone from the left who says we aren't a big tent should probably FOAD.)

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 17, 2012 03:06 PM (fXInK)

177 164, wont work on cigars

Posted by: Jean at November 17, 2012 03:06 PM (tWctt)

178
transgendered chickens?
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:05 PM (piMMO)

Nah, tranny's cookin chickens. You know, da fat ugly ones I cainst ho out. Da be good conservatives, da pay for da own peepee removal.

Posted by: Tyrone Velvet, proprietor, Tyrone's coin operated glory hole and transgendered chicken shack at November 17, 2012 03:07 PM (3Y7RV)

179 Tyrone Velvet, proprietor, Tyrone's coin operated glory hole and transgendered chicken shack

Please, please, please tell me that they can relieve me of at least some of the fuckings I'm going to be taking for the next four years!

Posted by: The Chicken at November 17, 2012 03:07 PM (IDypm)

180 Bush 1 was a World War 2 hero, and even though he gave us Clarence Thomas, he also gave us Souter. As many faults as these guys had, they won 3 out of 4 elections against Marxism

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 03:07 PM (4WesI)

181
174 You're arguing with a troll who thinks Chetniks fought against the Nazis.
Posted by: Waterhouse at November 17, 2012 03:05 PM (QK8qV)


Yeah, but it is more fun than cleaning the bathroom, which is what I'd be doing otherwise...

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 03:07 PM (LQjA9)

182 Ok, this is the troll's thread, so I'm going to make my point without sarcasm and go.

They call the R party "the stupid party" mostly because the lessons we learn from both winning and losing elections is how to excise parts of our coalition. The religious folks don't like the social libs, the fiscons don't like the big gov't types, etc.

You know the arguments.

The Dems win elections because their various "wings" get together and win elections. R's lose because, in spite of HAVING A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WHO AGREE WITH US, we can't keep our wings from killing each other.

Reagan was a fine man. So were the Bushes. In his own way, so was Richard Nixon. But go ahead and blame the other wing of the party for your minority status if you want. Meanwhile Dems will keep winning elections.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 03:08 PM (BeSEI)

183 So we can understand what is wrong with the party today.

What is wrong with the party today is our image with the public. It has degenerated from the 80's, when the public image of the two was that Republicans were considered the smart, rational ones and Democrats were the lunatic fringey communist-sympathizing nutjobs, to today, when the public image of the two is that Democrats are considered the smart, rational ones, and Republicans are considered the idiots, or the theocrats, or the nativist nazis, or the amoral vulture capitalists.

What has also changed is, quite frankly, Obama, who has now more or less created the requirement that successful campaigns build a movement based on personality rather than issues. Our candidate has got to be regarded by our side as something like a cult leader rather than a politician, just like they regard Obama.

I do not see anyone on the horizon that can generate the same enthusiasm for our side that they had for Obama in 2008. I think that is what is going to matter more going forward. And having this candidate also simultaneously solves the image problem, as it becomes impossible to dismiss such a person into one of the shallow conservative caricature labels, when that person, like Obama for Democrats, could enjoy such broad and enthusiastic support.

And very little of this has to do with Bush 1, IMO.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 03:08 PM (d/5qf)

184

wait.

what are chetniks?

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 03:08 PM (xIzGn)

185 Reagan wanted to pick Gerald Ford in 1980 as his running mate, but Ford said no. Bush was picked because his people felt that a ex CIA chief , would quiet the warmonger crowd in the media

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 03:08 PM (4WesI)

186 So, what's a good solvent for the glue that they use to stick labels on
bottles? I have tried an acid (vinegar) and that doesn't work.


Actually, ethanol works quite well, but it is a damn waste of perfectly good booze. If you can find some denatured stuff that would work. Possibly also fingernail polish remover (acetone).

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 03:10 PM (d/5qf)

187 >>>But go ahead and blame the other wing of the party for your minority status if you want.

Okay.

Posted by: unmotivated base who stayed home at November 17, 2012 03:10 PM (Iyg03)

188 Please, please, please tell me that they can relieve me of at least some of the fuckings I'm going to be taking for the next four years!
Posted by: The Chicken at November 17, 2012 03:07 PM (IDypm)

Cum on down, you be fucked, plucked and served up wit Tyrones own uneek blend of herbs an spices. I aslo gots dis dippin sauce made from da glory hole floor scrapins, yum yum.

Posted by: Tyrone Velvet, proprietor, Tyrone's coin operated glory hole and transgendered chicken shack at November 17, 2012 03:10 PM (3Y7RV)

189
184 wait. what are chetniks?
Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 03:08 PM (xIzGn)


A Yugoslavian faction during WWII, IIRC.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 03:11 PM (LQjA9)

190 It Tyrone another regular troll?

Posted by: unmotivated base who stayed home at November 17, 2012 03:11 PM (Iyg03)

191 190 It Tyrone another regular troll?
Posted by: unmotivated base who stayed home at November 17, 2012 03:11 PM (Iyg03)


Nah, maybe the alter ego of a much loved regular.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:12 PM (3Y7RV)

192 So, what's a good solvent for the glue that they use
to stick labels on bottles? I have tried an acid (vinegar) and that
doesn't work.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 02:53 PM
----
Dry heat sometimes works well. "Bake" at low temp for several hours. Labels may pop off.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 03:12 PM (5H6zj)

193 184

wait.

what are chetniks?

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 03:08 PM (xIzGn)

Balkans who collaborated with the Nazis, IIRC.

Posted by: Secundus at November 17, 2012 03:13 PM (g3jwX)

194 Completely off topic here, but can anyone advise how the Amazon link on the AoS front page works? I just ordered a few books from Amazon, and used that link and was wanting to make sure Ace got whatever credit was due to him. Thanks

Posted by: DaveinNC at November 17, 2012 03:13 PM (/NgNT)

195 'Cause it's all about the accent...

Hiya!

Posted by: Sarah Palin at November 17, 2012 03:13 PM (d/5qf)

196 And Mega? A regular troll?

Posted by: unmotivated base who stayed home at November 17, 2012 03:13 PM (Iyg03)

197 >>>So, what's a good solvent for the glue that they use to stick labels on
bottles?

Ronsonol lighter fuel

Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 03:13 PM (mqdAz)

198 So, what's a good solvent for the glue that they use

to stick labels on bottles? I have tried an acid (vinegar) and that

doesn't work.


****

Check out Pinterest.

If a solution exists, it will be there.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:14 PM (piMMO)

199 Ronsonol lighter fuel
Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 03:13 PM (mqdAz)

A sexually frustrated guy at a bar makes quick work of labels.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:14 PM (3Y7RV)

200
196 And Mega? A regular troll?
Posted by: unmotivated base who stayed home at November 17, 2012 03:13 PM (Iyg03)


Either a troll (just stirring up trouble for fun and/or politicalprofit) or just an obnoxious bigot.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 03:15 PM (LQjA9)

201 5 republican city mayors in the NC-7 endorsed Dem McIntyre, who won today.
McIntyre voted for Pelosi as Speaker in 2006 and 2008, 2010.

Jesus Christ

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 03:16 PM (4WesI)

202 removing labels:

http://pinterest.com/search/?q=removing+labels

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:16 PM (piMMO)

203 141 --- "Its funny, since some of the most anti-illegal immigrant people I know are legal immigrants. And some of the most religious people I know are hispanic. "

Posted by: ChrisValentine at November 17, 2012 02:59 PM (ht3c

No me digas! Gracias, CV.
(No kidding. Thanks, CV.)

As you point out, the various conservative sub-groups are not discrete entities. There is a considerable overlap.
Purist purges are an absurdity.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at November 17, 2012 03:16 PM (C8mVl)

204 Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 03:16 PM (4WesI)


Well, we can thank the establishment cabal of Justice, Rabon, Goolsby and Tillis for that.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:17 PM (3Y7RV)

205 The election was lost by a combination of Romney being a
less-than-optimal candidate and performing relatively poorly, which
produced the third factor: low voter turnout.



Or maybe half the people in America are Stuttering Clusterfucks of Miserable Shitfail.


Easily 80 percent of Americans are Stuttering Clusterfucks of Miserable Shitfail on some level, but that isn't why we barely lost the election.

Romney continued the long-standing Republican strategy of refusing to defend himself personally, refusing to explain how conservative policies benefit people on a personal level, and refusing to effectively attack his opponent and his policies.

Karl Rove's Superpac had a 1 percent success rate in the last election. His day has come and gone. George W. won in spite of Rove, not because of him. Rove's genius in targeting voters was nearly nullified by his insistence that Republicans should never "relitigate the past" by rebutting Democrat lies.

Most Americans still think Bush "lied" about WMD and Saddam's connections to Islamic terrorism. I've memorized about a dozen facts that I can reel out whenever someone says that to me, and it always blows them away and shuts them up.

Every Republican politicians needs to begin nullifying every Democratic attack and also begin playing total offense all the time.

Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 03:18 PM (hzR9T)

Posted by: YIKES! at November 17, 2012 03:19 PM (1PE/J)

207 Completely off topic here, but can anyone advise how the Amazon link on
the AoS front page works? I just ordered a few books from Amazon, and
used that link and was wanting to make sure Ace got whatever credit was
due to him. Thanks


*****

The link itself is associated with the website so there's a history of where it originated.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:20 PM (piMMO)

208 Look, I start askingthe trollto justify his statements and he disappears. Note for future: political theory/theology = Hector-Be-Gone.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 03:21 PM (LQjA9)

209 @14, "Who else was there?"

Well, Jack Kemp, for one.

I remember some smarmy asshole in the Campus Republicans standing up and smiling, saying, "I think we all know who the nominee will be," so we better get behind him.

Screw him and all the rest of the asshole establishment pricks who've sold us down the river.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at November 17, 2012 03:22 PM (+XVQe)

210 CBD still around?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:22 PM (GEICT)

211 Look, I start askingthe trollto justify his
statements ... Posted by: Grey Fox


Why?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 17, 2012 03:23 PM (4h0z0)

212 Our candidate has got to be regarded by our side as something like a
cult leader rather than a politician, just like they regard Obama.


There's a middle ground between a cult figure and someone who doesn't effectively defend himself and conservative principles.

Don't go all Fallacy of the Excluded Middle on us.

We don't need a cult figure. We just need someone who fights back and effectively explains.

If we'd had First Debate Romney for the entire campaign, we would've won. After that debate, he was seven points ahead.

Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 03:24 PM (hzR9T)

213 Mega 167 The Socon and Nativist hold on the GOP is coming to an end. I am going to enjoy the purge that's coming and seeing The Theocrats and their White Trash Nazi allies whine like girls.

The Republican party will be reborn and once again we will be the party of Liberty and Capitalism. A party for all Americans!

Good by losers!


Why is it that the most rage-filled brown-shirted, intolerant gibbering apes always cry about fascists and theocrats. It is almost like they only have vision when they look in a mirror, but are unable to tell they are gazing at themselves.

There are none so hateful as the Left in present day America, and none more rigidly following a religious creed than secular humanists, you make the Pharisees that murdered Christ seem to be as mild as Quakers.

Posted by: Jehu at November 17, 2012 03:25 PM (cSD32)

214 Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 03:24 PM (hzR9T)



It's called being inspiring. I'll never forget my dad telling me that Reagan made him proud to be a Republican and prouder to be an American. We don need Reagan 2.0, but we need his level of inspiration,

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:26 PM (GEICT)

215 Reagan's other biggest mistake was appointing Sandra Day O'Connor to the U.S. S.C. GHWB was an awful president and his malign influence still lingers to this day. Karl Rove is an aftereffect of Bush.

Posted by: Travis at November 17, 2012 03:27 PM (ychgM)

216 I was living in Ft. Lauderdale at the time. This turd destroyed the marina/boat business with the stroke of a pen and put thousands of people out of work with that fucked up "luxury tax".


Posted by: @PurpAv at November 17, 2012 03:28 PM (ss3u/)

217 I think he was a good conservative president.

Posted by: David Souter at November 17, 2012 03:29 PM (Iyg03)

218
Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 03:18 PM (hzR9T)


Still arguing "facts" with leftists? Notice how they make shit up? It doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong, to them its a silly game of acting "smart" with snappy comebacks.


Its best just to act like a retarded leftist and make them question their own position. Ask them what they want the country to look like in 10 years, that always causes a short-circuit!

Posted by: the lone lemon at November 17, 2012 03:30 PM (xXhWA)

219 It's called being inspiring. I'll never forget my dad telling me that Reagan made him proud to be a Republican and prouder to be an American. We don need Reagan 2.0, but we need his level of inspiration,
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:26 PM (GEICT)


You could feel it. It was palpable.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 03:30 PM (2Rwdk)

220
205...Romney continued the long-standing Republican strategy of refusing to defend himself personally, refusing to explain how conservative policies benefit people on a personal level, and refusing to effectively attack his opponent and his policies.

Yup.
I remember when Romney used a whiteboard...early in the campaign.
I loved that.
He needed to do more of that sort of thing.
We are up against a general lack of understanding of 'what works'...so some remedial instruction is called for.



Karl Rove's Superpac had a 1 percent success rate in the last election. His day has come and gone. George W. won in spite of Rove, not because of him. Rove's genius in targeting voters was nearly nullified by his insistence that Republicans should never "relitigate the past" by rebutting Democrat lies.

Rove has damaged himself now.
Maybe he will do us a favor and just go away.
But I doubt it.
He's already been coming out with his own version of "why we lost"...which of course contains no blame for the part he played in it.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 03:31 PM (ICEh3)

221 209

Exactly. I stood as a precinct chair for Jack Kemp back in 88. And he said (and we knew) that if Bush was nominated, the Reagan Revolution was dead. Smug 'conservatives' telling us to sit down and get behind the nominee.

He was right. It. Never. Changes.

But hey, let's let the Establishment keep choosing losers. Their record is so good. Oh, and now hearing Karl Rove say we need a 50 state strategy, when HE is the one responsible for creating the "Red State" strategy and sacrificing half the population to the Left is hilarious.

Posted by: Shawn at November 17, 2012 03:32 PM (/lltO)

222 Whoever is posting as "Mega".... uhhhhh...

ain't me.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 17, 2012 03:32 PM (6JMZR)

223 I'm ok with downplaying social issues, but I'm amazed by the way libertarians think they're popular or would be if they were in charge of the party.

Yes, people think that socons are crazy and intrusive, but people also think that libertarians are just selfish assholes. At a forum I go to its philosophy is mocked as "eff you, got mine!"

Posted by: Shoot Me at November 17, 2012 03:33 PM (qiXMt)

224
ain't me.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 17, 2012 03:32 PM (6JMZR)

We all knew that. You Rock!!!

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:33 PM (3Y7RV)

225 Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 03:30 PM (2Rwdk)



I was a kid, born in 81, and I truly a regret that I missed it. I love this country, I really do, and I respect the hell out of those that act like men. If only I could've seen it and remembered.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:34 PM (GEICT)

226 And Mega? A regular troll?

Anybody that full of shit can't be regular.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 17, 2012 03:35 PM (xKC/c)

227 >>>Exactly. I stood as a precinct chair for Jack Kemp back in 88. And he
said (and we knew) that if Bush was nominated, the Reagan Revolution was
dead.

I met Kemp in '86. Brilliant guy. He was close, but he wasn't eye-to-eye with Reagan. But unlike Bush, he wasn't arrogant enough to think he could do it better. He would have been the perfect dynamo to keep the Regan Revolution supercharged.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 03:35 PM (Iyg03)

228 Bush 41 also completely shut down all nuclear modernization, cancelled every program in the pipeline and it responsible today for the near death of the nuclear weapons enterprise and solid rocket industrial base.

He is that bitter man who thinks he is smarter than this boss and yet they never promote him.

America did promote him, because of his boss, and he failed and has led along with his son to the mammoth bloated government we have today. By not carrying on the Reagan legacy they opened the door for every Democrat to out bid the Republicans and that is where we are now.

Posted by: bobbymike at November 17, 2012 03:36 PM (wJSZn)

229 O/T, but an ad just ran for these and I have to ask, what's up with you guys' balls? First those "ball room" jeans and now these things.

http://tinyurl.com/aqhtmzj

Really, these ads fall into the TMI category to which feminine hygiene products belong.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 03:36 PM (5H6zj)

230 Y'all, lemme know if Mega becomes an ass nasty troll again. I'll give him a week-long time out.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 03:37 PM (Iyg03)

231 Both SoCons and Libertarians need to understand that until we break the Liberal lock on the schools and the media, neither SoCon not Libertarian positions will be advanced.

SoCons: You saw what they did to Akin and Mourdock. Get a clue!

Libertarians: They hate you as much as the SoCons. But SoCons are the easier target, so it's divide and conquer for now. But really, look up what Liberals say about the free market. They already teach that it's racist, and once the SoCons are made irrelevant by their expulsion from the GOP, then they will come after you with just as much moral fury, if not more.

SoCons and Libertarians: A coalition to retake the schools and the media. Or else it really is all over.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 17, 2012 03:37 PM (Y5I9o)

232 OT, but Film Ladd just tweeted this story.

You have to read the story to understand just how FUCKING INSANE this is.

http://t.co/gPVSMIoq

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:37 PM (piMMO)

233 "There's nothing wrong with believing in God but should not be political
agenda."

The only people who are explicitly promoting religious takeover government is the Islamists, and their leftist allies. Islamists are promoting Allah, the leftists their weird Gaia-worship; but both groups are gnostic sects that hold themselves to be uniquely in possession of the truth, and therefore anointed by their god to wield power. They are allied because both are enemies of the notion of limited government.

That's not to say that religiously based values don't motivate people. In fact, one's religion (defined most broadly as the principles of life to which a person testifies) must influence his politics. The notion of limited government is itself a religiously based value, stemming from the the ideas of human equality that Christianity has at its root. I suggest you take another look at the preamble to the Declaration of Independence: when they appealed to "Nature and Nature's God," when they speak of humans as "created", when they speak of the "Creator", they weren't just whistling Dixie. Or would you slice those passage out as being "theocratic"?

Secundus: C U Soon.


Posted by: Brown Line at November 17, 2012 03:37 PM (gkXu2)

234

Does everyone know why trolls troll?

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 03:37 PM (NLH1M)

235 >>>He is that bitter man who thinks he is smarter than this boss and yet they never promote him. America did promote him, because of his boss, and he failed and has led along with his son to the mammoth bloated government we have today. By not carrying on the Reagan legacy they opened the door for every Democrat to out bid the Republicans and that is where we are now.

Outstanding comment.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 03:38 PM (Iyg03)

236 Y'all, lemme know if Mega becomes an ass nasty troll again. I'll give him a week-long time out.Posted by: David Souter

Somehow the threat isn't as frightening when said by your sock...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 17, 2012 03:38 PM (4h0z0)

237 I was a kid, born in 81, and I truly a regret that I missed it. I love this country, I really do, and I respect the hell out of those that act like men. If only I could've seen it and remembered.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:34 PM (GEICT)

I was in an F-14 Squadron in "82", We had 13 planes, two actually flew. We were stealing parts from the others to keep them up so our pilots could get their Hours. By Early "83" Grumman began delivering brand new planes, still "in the bag". It was like FKN Christmas. We had been working so hard to make shit fly then suddenly, we were all bored. It was the good kind of bored. The bored that won us the Battle E.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:38 PM (3Y7RV)

238 Whoever is posting as "Mega".... uhhhhh...



ain't me.


****

We know.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:39 PM (piMMO)

239 Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:33 PM (3Y7RV)

Oh... thanks, bud. I was scrolling and had only seen its first two posts. I didn't know it had brown splattered the whole thread.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 17, 2012 03:39 PM (6JMZR)

240 Since when a Mikhail Gorbachev quote in the f'ng The Nation credible?

Posted by: whatmeworry? at November 17, 2012 03:39 PM (Q3WfW)

241
Does everyone know why trolls troll?

Their dicks are too small to masturbate with?

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 17, 2012 03:40 PM (bmBLU)

242
Who the F*^ would believe Gorbachev? All of a sudden Gorbachev's words are gospel.
Lay off of Bush.

Posted by: Pete_Bondurant at November 17, 2012 03:40 PM (o1paS)

243 Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 03:36 PM (5H6zj)



Damn, they look comfy.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:40 PM (GEICT)

244 Read my lips. They're in Braille!!!!

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 17, 2012 03:40 PM (MG6Y6)

245 Okay, everyone seems to agree that the Bushes were bad, but it's funny how they seem to disagree about why. Did they pander too much to the "socons"? Or were they too dismissive of the "flyover" rubes? Were they too business-friendly? Too obsessed with realpolitik abroad, or too idealistic?

If we're supposed to hate two good men, I'd like to have a clear idea why.

Posted by: Trimegistus at November 17, 2012 03:40 PM (3TVHI)

246
If we're supposed to hate two good men, I'd like to have a clear idea why.

Uh, hello?

Posted by: Circular Firing Squad at November 17, 2012 03:42 PM (bmBLU)

247 I think part of the point is, Pete, is that the Gorby quote sounds just like Bush, and if you don't like it, then look at his record instead.

Souter.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 03:42 PM (Iyg03)

248 Does everyone know why trolls troll?

Because they have never touched poon.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 17, 2012 03:42 PM (6JMZR)

249 You know whats wrong with the Republican Party? Country music. It's killing us, guys.

Posted by: the lone lemon at November 17, 2012 03:43 PM (xXhWA)

250 If we're supposed to hate two good men, I'd like to have a clear idea why.
Posted by: Trimegistus at November 17, 2012 03:40 PM (3TVHI)

The older one raised taxes and the younger one refused to cut spending. Then the younger bailed out private enterprise that should have been allowed to fail and reorg. I don't think I hate either of them. But fiscally, they fucked up big. Really big.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:43 PM (3Y7RV)

251 I'm ok with downplaying social issues, but I'm amazed by the way
libertarians think they're popular or would be if they were in charge of
the party.


Yeah no kidding. Voters have had the option to vote for the Libertarian Party for over 40 years now. Guess what - they keep losing.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 03:45 PM (d/5qf)

252 Poppy spawned Dumbya -- who left the GOP in tatters, the economy in crisis, two wars unfinished, and trillion dollar deficits.

Which led to Obama.

Case closed.

Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at November 17, 2012 03:45 PM (UKXMx)

253 Oldsailer, I agree, they're nice guys. Dignified. Nice, dignified, arrogant guys.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 03:45 PM (Iyg03)

254 Chemjeff, I'm a "small 'l' libertarian," and I despise the other sort.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 03:46 PM (Iyg03)

255 Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at November 17, 2012 03:45 PM (UKXMx)

Um, yeah, i'll go with that.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:47 PM (3Y7RV)

256 If we're supposed to hate two good men, I'd like to have a clear idea why.


****

I do not hate them and think they are admirable, honorable men.

My issues with 41 as a POTUS is no.new.taxes and telling our forces to stand down in Iraq (although, admittedly, I'm not certain the outcome of not standing down.)

With 43 it's the spending.

While I wouldn't want either to be POTUS again, I would be damned proud to shake the hand of either man.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:47 PM (piMMO)

257
232 OT, but Film Ladd just tweeted this story.

You have to read the story to understand just how FUCKING INSANE this is.

http://t.co/gPVSMIoq

----------------

A liberal elitist judge in London...persecuting a special ops Iraqi war veteran.
There should not have been any charges brought against the vet, in the first place!
Gah.

What's going on in Britain, is a preview of what we have in store for us here...with four more years of Barky.


Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 03:47 PM (ICEh3)

258 Yeah, and getting rolled by the Dem's 2-for-1 budget cut/tax increase after watching Reagan have the same happen to him was just inexcusable.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 17, 2012 03:47 PM (4h0z0)

259 You know whats wrong with the Republican Party? Country music. It's killing us, guys.


****

And Hank Hill

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:48 PM (piMMO)

260 OT

So, Horde, I've had a headache at some point every day for a month. Doc prescribed some migraine med. so far, no help. I decided to go the Irish route today. Slammed back to back to back shots. Should I now go for another?


Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:48 PM (GEICT)

261 The elder Bush sucker punched conservatism and the younger one choked it out. We're still reeling.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 17, 2012 03:48 PM (6JMZR)

262 A liberal elitist judge in London...persecuting a special ops Iraqi war veteran.
There should not have been any charges brought against the vet, in the first place!
Gah.

What's going on in Britain, is a preview of what we have in store for us here...with four more years of Barky.


****

Makes me want to scream.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:49 PM (piMMO)

263 What's going on in Britain, is a preview of what we have in store for us here...with four more years of Barky.


Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 03:47 PM (ICEh3)

They are terrified of the muzzys rioting and burning their little island to the fucking ground. Which will happen, soon enough.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:49 PM (3Y7RV)

264 What's going on in Britain, is a preview of what we have in store for us here...with four more years of Barky.
Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 03:47 PM (ICEh3)


Yep. That's why I'm on team Let It Burn. If we go with Obama's managed decline, we'll end up as England. If it burns, things will be worse in the short term, but maybe we'll remember who we are in the long term.

Posted by: Palandine at November 17, 2012 03:50 PM (g7D8V)

265 Whatever, Herbert Hymenhopper. You're the troll who was telling us how awesome Obama was, just one or two days ago, and then gloating over "four more years".

Posted by: boulder hobo at November 17, 2012 03:50 PM (QTHTd)

266 Is this something? Anonymous claims to have 'hacked' ORCA on election day, they are claiming that Karl Rove was going to steal the election or somesuch, but might explain why the website was crashing the day of.

Story in nick.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 17, 2012 03:50 PM (fCMdQ)

267
So, Horde, I've had a headache at some point every day for a month.
Doc prescribed some migraine med. so far, no help. I decided to go the
Irish route today. Slammed back to back to back shots. Should I now go
for another?


****

Dehydration will not help a headache.

What did they give you?

I take Elavil/Amyltriptiline as a maintenance med for mine.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:50 PM (piMMO)

268 OT



So, Horde, I've had a headache at some point every day for a month.
Doc prescribed some migraine med. so far, no help. I decided to go the
Irish route today. Slammed back to back to back shots. Should I now go
for another?


Put the bottle on a horizontal surface across the room, and walk to where you would normally sit. When your glass is empty, go pour another shot. When you can no longer walk across the room, you should no longer feel the headache. Or anything else, for that matter.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 17, 2012 03:50 PM (xKC/c)

269 I was in an F-14 Squadron in "82", We had 13 planes, two actually flew. We were stealing parts from the others to keep them up so our pilots could get their Hours. By Early "83" Grumman began delivering brand new planes, still "in the bag". It was like FKN Christmas. We had been working so hard to make shit fly then suddenly, we were all bored. It was the good kind of bored. The bored that won us the Battle E.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:38 PM (3Y7RV)


You should have seen the F-4s they were trying to keep flying in '78-'79 at Yuma. Same. I think VMFAT-101 kept rotating the parts around so different numbers flew. It was very rare that more than 4 flew at the same time from a flight line that had about 25 (in various stages of cannibalization). I backseated a flight (RIO seat) that the radar was gone.

One time, for replacement aircraft, a couple of Skycranes flew in two from Davis-Mothan....

with MIG kills on the side.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 03:51 PM (2Rwdk)

270 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:50 PM (piMMO)



I know, but nothing has helped. Frankly, I'd just like to not feel my face for a while. Prescribed Fioricet.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:51 PM (GEICT)

271 Is this something? Anonymous claims to have 'hacked' ORCA on election
day, they are claiming that Karl Rove was going to steal the election or
somesuch, but might explain why the website was crashing the day of.


****

I think it would be a far too convenient excuse for the failure.

It has already been revealed that programming of the system was being done by inexperience volunteers.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:51 PM (piMMO)

272 Granted Bush fucked up and gave us Obama, but 2004 election night was sweet when we won all 3 branches. Dems around the Chicago area were suicidal.

Ahh good times

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 03:51 PM (4WesI)

273 I know, but nothing has helped. Frankly, I'd just like to not feel my face for a while. Prescribed Fioricet.


*****

If it's migraines, then putting you on a maintenance med will fight them back before they start.

Just be certain that if you're drinking today, you're not also taking the fioricet.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:53 PM (piMMO)

274 I backseated a flight (RIO seat) that the radar was gone.

Oh, I so wanted a backseat ride in an F-14. They offered it for awhile as a reinlistment bonus and then stopped it for some reason.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:53 PM (3Y7RV)

275 “President Obama called Egyptian President Morsi today to discuss the situation in Gaza,” the White House said in a statement. “The President commended Egypt’s efforts to de-escalate the situation and expressed his hope that these efforts would be successful.”

Way to go,51%.

Way
to
go.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 17, 2012 03:53 PM (4h0z0)

276 It has already been revealed that programming of the system was being done by inexperience volunteers.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:51 PM (piMMO)

Inexperienced programmers could lead to easy DoS attacks. Not mutually exclusive.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 17, 2012 03:53 PM (fCMdQ)

277

Trolls troll for 2 reasons.

1. For attention. "Random" trolls for attention.

2. To annoy others. To push buttons. To ruin another's day. To make others question and defend their core values. To waste another's time.

If you read a troll's comments, the troll wins.

If you respond to a troll, the troll wins...
and owns you.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 03:54 PM (0yntW)

278 Is this something? Anonymous claims to have 'hacked' ORCA on election
day, they are claiming that Karl Rove was going to steal the election or
somesuch, but might explain why the website was crashing the day of.

Yeah, whatever. They fucked with the Jews. I hope the Mossad puts their heads on a stick.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:55 PM (3Y7RV)

279 Yes, Jack J.

In 2004 there was talk of a "permanent Republican majority".

By 2008 that vanished into smoke after Dubai ports, Harriet Myers, failed Social Security privatization, Terry Shiavo, Medicare Part D, war fatigue, the TSA and Homeland Security, TARP and a financial meltdown.

What happened?

Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at November 17, 2012 03:56 PM (UKXMx)

280 “President Obama called Egyptian President Morsi today to discuss the situation in Gaza,” the White House said in a statement. “The President commended Egypt’s efforts to de-escalate the situation and expressed his hope that these efforts would be successful.”


****


efforts to de-escalate?

Do those include announcing that they stand with Palestine and allowing terrorists to fire into Israel from Egypt?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:56 PM (piMMO)

281 So, Horde, I've had a headache at some point every day for a month. Doc prescribed some migraine med. so far, no help.

--

Man, sorry to hear that.

What did he give you? Imitrex works well for me but I have to be careful to limit its usage because you can wind up with "rebound" headaches if you use to too frequently. What too frequently is remains to be seen, but I try to limit its use to 2 or 3 times a month.

I was reading up and found that I was inadvertently triggering headaches by eating soynuts and bananas, and also probably by using OTC cold remedies that have pain meds in them. Turns out a lot of common pain meds can cause rebound headaches, so now I'm limiting those too.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 03:57 PM (5H6zj)

282 If it's migraines, then putting you on a maintenance med will fight them back before they start.



Doc isn't sure it's migraines. Just most likely. I'm betting on tmj.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:57 PM (GEICT)

283
Inexperienced programmers could lead to easy DoS attacks. Not mutually exclusive.

****

This is true

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:57 PM (piMMO)

284 Pappy Bush's biggest f*ckup was not taking out Hussein. The taxes gaffe was overplayed political noise.

Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 03:57 PM (mqdAz)

285 Doc isn't sure it's migraines. Just most likely. I'm betting on tmj.


****

Clicking in your jaw?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:57 PM (piMMO)

286 After you all are done hating on two good men for their mistakes, perhaps you might wish to look at the mistakes of Reagan as well.

I am reminded that we have a bunch of classless people trashing Romney in public. The latest is Senator-elect Cruz of Texas, although he is attacking him from the right rather than the left.

Who in the hell will we ever get to run when perfection and lock-step right intentions are demanded, and every mistake in a complex job is turned into intentional villainy? And hearing about the evils of "rich RINO" Bush remindsme that the class envy of the left has slithered into our party as well.

Screw this. I am going to clean carpets, a more intellectually satisfying pastime.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 17, 2012 03:58 PM (GoIUi)

287 Obama's contempt for Israel and cuddling up to the Muslim Brotherhood government (which is probably on its way out, anyway, as the Egyptians apparently don't think the Ikwhan is hardcore enough on sharia) has an upside--it makes it more like that Israel will schwack Iran. When that happens, I will rejoice...

Posted by: Palandine at November 17, 2012 03:59 PM (g7D8V)

288 285 Doc isn't sure it's migraines. Just most likely. I'm betting on tmj.


****

Clicking in your jaw?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 03:57 PM (piMMO)



Yup. My entire life. I literally have memories of being 7 or 8 and it clicking and popping.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:59 PM (GEICT)

289
256 If we're supposed to hate two good men, I'd like to have a clear idea why.


****

I do not hate them and think they are admirable, honorable men.

My issues with 41 as a POTUS is no.new.taxes and telling our forces to stand down in Iraq (although, admittedly, I'm not certain the outcome of not standing down.)

With 43 it's the spending.

While I wouldn't want either to be POTUS again, I would be damned proud to shake the hand of either man.

----------

Yeah, I don't hate either of the Bushes...but I think they both should serve as an example of what we cannot have anymore, for candidates.

And with Bush 41...the taxes that he signed into law, were from the Dem-controlled Congress.
Bush 41didn't bother to fight them...or to explain why he felt he had to compromise in order to get funding for the military.

Bush 41 wanted to go after Saddam Hussein...butwhen the UN and the Saudissaid 'no' to that...his sense of honor prevented him from going against them.
Which is why we now need to tell the UN to fuck off.

And yeah, Bush 43 threw the door wide open on Spending.
Which left it open for the Dems to follow and spend even more.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:00 PM (ICEh3)

290 Yeah, drinking never helps with my headaches, either.

Sex does. So perhaps apply the contents liberally to your partner rather than to yourself!

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:00 PM (5H6zj)

291 And hearing about the evils of "rich RINO" Bush remindsme that the class envy of the left has slithered into our party as well.

Screw this. I am going to clean carpets, a more intellectually satisfying pastime.
Posted by: Miss Marple at November 17, 2012 03:58 PM (GoIUi)

I don't think it was the rich part that bothered people. I think it was the RINO part.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:00 PM (3Y7RV)

292 >>>288
285 Doc isn't sure it's migraines. Just most likely. I'm betting on tmj.

Go see a dentist.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:01 PM (5H6zj)

293 Imagine if Bush 43 had vetoed a few omnibus bills.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:01 PM (Iyg03)

294 A sexually frustrated guy at a bar makes quick work of labels.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 03:14 PM (3Y7RV)

My specialty!1 err..

Posted by: sdavis at November 17, 2012 04:01 PM (njVMI)

295 290 Yeah, drinking never helps with my headaches, either.

Sex does. So perhaps apply the contents liberally to your partner rather than to yourself!

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:00 PM (5H6zj)



Lmfao. I did buy her the cheap ass wine cooler type crap she asked for. So who knows?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:01 PM (GEICT)

296 Sex does. So perhaps apply the contents liberally to your partner rather than to yourself!


****

One should never drink alone. It's her obligation to help you in your time of need!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 04:02 PM (piMMO)

297 If you respond to a troll, the troll wins...
and owns you.Posted by: soothie
I don't usually interact with trolls, but I somewhat disagree with that (I understand what you're saying though). It's always been my take that people who take down a troll's idiocy are providing a service (eg. explaining reality....not to the troll who doesn't care, but to any reasonable non-conservative who might be lurking).On a macro level, I would sort of equate it with someone like Bush II or Romney not publicly and forcefully responding to the stupidity that gets pushed by the lunatic left, and ends up sticking to them because the low info types never heard differently.

Posted by: Circular Firing Squad at November 17, 2012 04:02 PM (bmBLU)

298 If you respond to a troll, the troll wins...

Oh, please. You sound like one of these lib moderators. Sometimes responses to trolls are the only thing worth reading. Unless you really love fiscon vs socon part five billion.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (6JMZR)

299 Is this something? Anonymous claims to have 'hacked' ORCA on election
day, they are claiming that Karl Rove was going to steal the election or
somesuch, but might explain why the website was crashing the day of.


Probably not true, but it would make their impending deaths at the hands of the Mossad all the sweeter.

Jane's Defense Weekly estimated that we know of only about 75 percent of Israel's full military and cyber capabilities.

I'm sure the Israelis already know who every member of Anonymous is and are just trying to figure out how to send the the most effective message.

In other words, which ones get to die in order to put the fear of Yaweh into the rest?

Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (hzR9T)

300
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 03:48 PM (GEICT)

BCochran,
Do you grind your teeth at night in your sleep?
That can give you pressure headaches that last all day.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (ICEh3)

301 One should never drink alone. It's her obligation to help you in your time of need!
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 04:02 PM (piMMO)

And while you are telling her that, remind her that swallowing is a proven weight loss supplement.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (3Y7RV)

302 279. Herbert, Katrina put Bush on the defensive right off the bat. Senate Leader Bill Frist was awful, and Speaker Haesert was a porker from Blue State Illinois.

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (4WesI)

303
Should I now go for another?

Dr. Boy recommends frequent and numerous self-administration of said medications until no pain is felt.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 17, 2012 04:04 PM (lOmbq)

304
Off circular sock!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 17, 2012 04:04 PM (bmBLU)

305 >>One should never drink alone. It's her obligation to help you in your time of need!

We call it the-rapy.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:04 PM (5H6zj)

306 I forgot about Trent Lott. What a frickin wimp

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 04:04 PM (4WesI)

307 So this Lincoln program on History channel right now is semi-peddling the "Lincoln was teh ghey" stuff.

Why do gheys want everyone to be ghey?

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:05 PM (5H6zj)

308 but might explain why the website was crashing the day of.

A better reason for why ORCA was crashing was simple:

THEY DIDN'T STRESS TEST IT!!!!!

You never, ever, ever release mission critical software without several rounds of stress testing, because it is guaranteed to crash on the first run.

Guaranteed.

Posted by: sdavis at November 17, 2012 04:05 PM (njVMI)

309 302 279. Herbert, Katrina put Bush on the defensive right off the bat. Senate Leader Bill Frist was awful, and Speaker Haesert was a porker from Blue State Illinois.
Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (4WesI)

Most are in it for themselves. How do we make doing the right thing profitable?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:05 PM (3Y7RV)

310

anyway...second-tier snacks

Bugles vs Chex vs mixed nuts (shelled, no peanuts)

I vote for Bugles. They're shaped like tiny megaphones and that's cute. Chex are ordinary. Nuts are too much work and nutcrackers are never around when you need one.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:06 PM (Ba6aP)

311 I'd go for the Nuts.

Posted by: Barney Frank at November 17, 2012 04:07 PM (CLjYf)

312 300
BCochran,
Do you grind your teeth at night in your sleep?
That can give you pressure headaches that last all day.
Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (ICEh3)



Not on the regular, as far as I know. And they're weird. Some days I wake up with a headache, other days I'll be fine until mid afternoon and then BAM.




301 And while you are telling her that, remind her that swallowing is a proven weight loss supplement.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:03 PM (3Y7RV)



Do people have issues with that? Huh.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:07 PM (GEICT)

313 You're gonna love my nuts

Posted by: Vince Offer at November 17, 2012 04:07 PM (g7D8V)

314
They're shaped like tiny megaphones and that's cute.

Plus, you can put them on the ends of your fingers and attack any random young'uns who wander by.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 17, 2012 04:08 PM (lOmbq)

315 I vote for Bugles. They're shaped like tiny megaphones and that's cute. Chex are ordinary. Nuts are too much work and nutcrackers are never around when you need one.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:06 PM (Ba6aP)

OOOh, reminds me of a funny story. I was at a Christmas party and called Brazille nuts Ni***r toes in front of a black guy I worked with. He laughed and said, Yeah, my Gandpa called them that too.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:08 PM (3Y7RV)

316 Doc isn't sure it's migraines. Just most likely. I'm betting on tmj.

Stand in front of a mirror and stick out your tongue. If you can see tooth impressions on the sides of your tongue, you've got bruxism that could be giving you TMJ Disorder and the corresponding headaches.

Lots of cheap, effective ways to deal with bruxism.

Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 04:08 PM (hzR9T)

317 Is there an easily accessible, definitive assessment of ORCA somewhere that will enlighten an uniformed moron?

Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 04:09 PM (mqdAz)

318 Ok, I'm up. #4 coming momentarily....

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:09 PM (GEICT)

319 You also forget the Hammer, Tom DeLay, loved spending money more than any Democrat. Holding the vote open till 3am to arm-twist GOPers on the Medicare Prescription Drug Welfare program was a farce in the House.

Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at November 17, 2012 04:09 PM (UKXMx)

320 I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but the Bush family has this seemingly genetic problem that makes them all globalist pieces of shit. The whole family just appears to hate the concept of national sovereignty and the idea of the nation-state. W was saved, somewhat, from his inherent dickheaded Bushness by his Christianity, which forced him to try to make decent SCOTUS nominations - and he basically did ... Benedickhead Roberts turned out to be a total, raving lunatic which I don't blame on Bush, at all. Other than that, though, W was like all the other Bushes; weak on the border to the point of making it a laughing stock, striving to prop up the demented, twisted, insane UN (though Bush Sr. did the worst thing int he world by empowering the UN in the wake of the fall of the USSR, something for which he should burn in hell for), and generally being a strict ROE asswipe who didn't know how to really fight a war. yes, W stuck with Iraq, but he dragged it out by playing footsie with the primitives so long that he wore out America's patience.

The Bush family is shit. If I never hear about another Bush it will be too soon. Their DNA is fucked up. They have a mutation that is destructive and makes them pretty much assholes who can't be trusted with shit (even though they all seem like very decent and honest people, on a personal level). The Bush family needs to dis-a-fucking-ppear. They've done enough damage. They still lag behind the Kennedys in total destruction, but they were trying to catch up, the fuckfaces.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 17, 2012 04:09 PM (X3lox)

321
307So this Lincoln program on History channel right now is semi-peddling the "Lincoln was teh ghey" stuff.

Why do gheys want everyone to be ghey?

------------

To create more "Ghey History"?
Then they can demand that it be taught in school...like they've done in California.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:10 PM (ICEh3)

322

Bugles as toy weapons??

Brilliant!

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:10 PM (yhYn1)

323 Herbert, Katrina put Bush on the defensive right off the bat. Senate
Leader Bill Frist was awful, and Speaker Haesert was a porker from Blue
State Illinois.


*****

I watched an FNC show about 'pork' a couple of years ago and Hastert was neck-friggin-deep in it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 17, 2012 04:10 PM (piMMO)

324 Fritz:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/334783.php

is a start

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:11 PM (5H6zj)

325

I never understood why brazil nuts were always included in the bag.

Now filberts however...

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:12 PM (39q3n)

326 290
Yeah, drinking never helps with my headaches, either.

Sex does.


wait, so the old "I've got a headache" line isn't an excuse, but a request?

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 04:12 PM (d/5qf)

327 I hated Brazil nuts every holiday season. They are impossible to eat.

My life is much better now that I am an adult and have banished them from my home. :-)

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:12 PM (5H6zj)

328 Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 17, 2012 04:09 PM (X3lox)

Good rant. The only thing I would disagree with is, unless your a young waitress at the kennedy compound, the Bush Admin has been far more damaging to the country. Even JFK knew tax cuts spurred business.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:13 PM (3Y7RV)

329 >>wait, so the old "I've got a headache" line isn't an excuse, but a request?

My husband is a very lucky man.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:13 PM (5H6zj)

330 What's also offensive about the "Lincoln was teh ghey" crowd is that part of the sentiment seems to be based on Mary Todd's appearance and personality. The thinking goes something like this: "She was so ugly and so nasty, he had to be gay."

Now, I haven't heard that exact quote; I've just heard it hinted at by several different people.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:14 PM (Iyg03)

331

btw, CHETNIKS would be a great name for a party snack mix.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:14 PM (39q3n)

332 Oh, c'mon, Gore Vidal you old queen. Lincoln was not ghey.

Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:14 PM (5H6zj)

333 A Brazil nut killed my father.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2012 04:14 PM (CLjYf)

334 Ladies and Gentlemen... Sorry, Rons and Ronettes, I believe that our current situation and soul searching can yield only one conclusion, a duty we owe the cause of Liberty, and that is PURGE. These statist, social issue regulators who call themselves Republicans must be removed from the party leadership, and we must return to our principles if we are to ever know success in any electoral contest again. What we began with the Tea Party was a good attempt, though the machinery that has hijacked it has only continued to be part of the problem. If we do not remove these people from power, they will destroy us from within.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:15 PM (9DB70)

335 >>"She was so ugly and so nasty, he had to be gay."

That's interesting b/c I'm mostly hearing how she was a very desirable socialite.

It's interesting how standards of beauty change. Maybe she was considered pretty then.

Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:15 PM (5H6zj)

336 319. Delay had his faults, but he was a fighter. Pork King for sure, but he helped the GOP win many elections against the rats.

I think both Bush wives were liberals too. That did not help

Posted by: Jack J at November 17, 2012 04:15 PM (4WesI)

337

Big Nut is devious and greedy.

They put in Brazil nuts to add to the volume of the bag.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:16 PM (KeJAW)

338 I like Brazille nuts.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:16 PM (3Y7RV)

339 yeah the biggest problem I have with the whole John Roberts thing is Rehnquist's untimely death - because of it, Bush just bumped up Roberts' pending nomination to Chief Justice and nominated Alito instead for Roberts' nominated position. Had Roberts been confirmed as an Associate Justice, then we would have seen maybe Thomas or Scalia promoted as Chief Justice in due course, then Roberts could have been the ordinary back-bencher justice instead of had this inflated role put upon him as "THE Chief Justice" who must make the "correct" decision rather than the right decision in the ObamaCare case

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 04:17 PM (d/5qf)

340 No, not Donna Brazille nuts.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:17 PM (3Y7RV)

341 Holiday nut bag pecking order: pecans > almonds > walnuts > hazelnuts (filberts?) > Brazil nuts

Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:17 PM (5H6zj)

342 341 Holiday nut bag pecking order: pecans > almonds > walnuts > hazelnuts (filberts?) > Brazil nuts
Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:17 PM (5H6zj)

You poor thing, you have never heard of a Cashew.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:18 PM (3Y7RV)

343 My husband is a very lucky man.


Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:13 PM (5H6zj)

And you'll note that there is not one bottle of Tylenol in the entire house.

Posted by: Mr. Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:18 PM (d/5qf)

344

President Al Gore.

Would we have been better off with that douchenozzle as President?

We can lambast the Bushes all we want...but the real problem is with the Republican party bosses.
I'm not even sure who they are.
But someone is pulling the purse strings.
And whoever it is...seems to prefer moderate conservatives over the fire-breathing fighters.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:19 PM (ICEh3)

345 >>You poor thing, you have never heard of a Cashew

I love cashews, but I never saw them in a holiday nut bag (you know the mixed nuts in their shells our moms always had around the holidays).

Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:19 PM (5H6zj)

346 Posted by: Mr. Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:18 PM

LOL

Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:20 PM (5H6zj)

347
I consider cashews top tier.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:20 PM (UZJrF)

348
Holiday nut bag pecking order: pecans > almonds > walnuts > hazelnuts (filberts?) > Brazil nuts

Back home in Alabama, we'd work off our Thanksgiving meal by throwing a football up in the pecan trees to knock them out and eat them.

Also, no cashews?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 17, 2012 04:20 PM (lOmbq)

349 I disagree. (Though I hate the Bush family with the heat of a thousand exploding suns, and think that they squandered the Reagan legacy.)

Reagan's greatest mistake was the Simpson-Mazzoli amnesty.

Reagan thought that mass Hispanic immigration was similar to previous waves of mass immigration by other ethnic groups. He thought that their ultimate end point was to assimilate into the American melting pot. He was won over by claims that their hard work, "strong family values" and Catholic faith made them instinctive natural conservatives. He figured they would prosper, and as they did, they would start to vote Republican.

There were grounds at the time to believe that this wasn't true, and we now know in retrospect that it wasn't true. The Hispanics made legal by the Reagan amnesty were the greatest boon to the American left and the Democratic Party in the entire period from 1950 through 2000.

Some of the reasons why Hispanics didn't assimilate as definitively as, say, the Italian-Americans who preceded them did:

-- When those earlier waves of ethnic immigrants arrived, the modern welfare state had not become as ubiquitous as it is now. They had to work steadily to provide for their families, and learned its value. That changed after LBJ. As Heather MacDonald has pointed out, Hispanics are now sucked into the cradle to grave model starting with the first citizen generation eligible to collect.

-- When those earlier waves of ethnic immigrants arrived, they enjoyed no specific preferences in education and hiring simply by dint of their bloodlines. That also changed after the 1960s. Hispanics became one of several protected, promoted ethnic blocs. If your skin was striped purple and green, and you came to a new country where you found that the government granted you huge new privileges because of your striped integument, and one political party was intent on maintaining and extending those intrinsic privileges for you, would you not buy in to that party's goals? It is natural to seek individual advantage, and to seek group advantage.

-- When those earlier waves of ethnic immigrants arrived, they assimilated linguistically, because the government and employers made no provision for multilingual services. Again, the background conditions changed after the 1960s. Official multilingualism became policy. Especially for Hispanics, who by dint of their numbers have made certain areas of the United States into essentially monolingual Hispanophone zones. Try going as an English speaker to a government office in Miami-Dade some time. You'll find it tough sledding.

-- When those earlier waves of ethnic immigrants arrived, those of them who were of the Catholic faith really were traditionalist, conservative Catholics. That too has changed, but not due to government policy. The Holy See's cultural influence became much more leftist with "liberation theology" and "social justice" priests at all levels. Especially in Latin America. Those attitudes have percolated up into American Catholicism due to the Latino immigrant tidal wave.

All of this was easily foreseeable in the 1980s. That Reagan failed to foresee it was tragic, and ultimately hugely counterproductive to Reaganite goals and philosophy.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 17, 2012 04:21 PM (ymG7s)

350 344. Dead on, see 334.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:22 PM (9DB70)

351 Cashews aren't nuts.
A true nut connoiseur would eschew the cashew.

Posted by: garrett at November 17, 2012 04:22 PM (CLjYf)

352

pistachios, too

come to think of it, I don't know if I've seen a cashew still in its shell

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:23 PM (Ba6aP)

353 SHOULD BE REQUIRED VIEWING:

Rush Limbaugh "The True Meaning of Thanksgiving"

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2012/11/rush-limbaugh-true-meaning-of.html

Posted by: Steve at November 17, 2012 04:23 PM (mb+zE)

354 >>>324 Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:11 PM (5H6zj)

Yeah, rolling out untested beta software with little or no distribution or hands-on training, across multiple platforms is a brilliant strategy when going head-to-head with an incumbent with the full force of the government behind him.

Should have been called Project: DOOM.

Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 04:23 PM (mqdAz)

355 These statist, social issue regulators who call themselves Republicans
must be removed from the party leadership, and we must return to our
principles if we are to ever know success in any electoral contest
again.


dude, social conservatism has always been a part of the Republican Party. What do you think the abolition movement was? It was a gigantic social issue.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 04:24 PM (d/5qf)

356

hahaha @ holiday nut bag


so many meanings...

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:25 PM (DlaLh)

357 Which is better:
Eschew the cashew
or
frown on a pecan
?

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 04:25 PM (d/5qf)

358
Tsar Nicholas, just read your comment and skipped down to do a quick one myself.

Your litany of Reagan errors was excellent, though forgivably incomplete. I'll just toss in a couple off the top of my head right here.

Colin Powell. (A mistake unforgivably compounded by both Bushes, but still)

The Iran part of Iran-Contra - the Contra part was meh, dubious constitutionally but solid in terms of policy. The Iran part was insane, and idiotic.The whole playing ball on any hostage stuff was idiotic. I was involved in one of the Lebanon hostage cases - the family made it very clear to me that THEY thought playingball on hostages was a very bad idea. THAT's how idiotic it was for the Reagan Admin. to do what they did. Yikes.

As youmentioned, Beirut barracks attack and subsequent retreat. A maddeningly and incomprehensibleschizoid policyWRT to Iran, our main enemy (active) in the world at the time (and still today). Moronic hostage game-playing, followed by smart, tough, effectiveconfrontation (Op Praying Mantis, Kuwaiti tanker reflagging, etc.). Weird.

Oh, and what "got us Obama" wasn't Bush - it was lots of obvious things people here rightly whine about all the time, but which seem to magically disappear for purposes oftrashing Dubya: a press that morphed into an hysterical, outrageous attack operation for one side and successfully dumbed-down most of the country; a pathetic narcissisticsoft racism that made zillions of sheltered white folks like mypolitically clueless siblings support the affirmative action non-entity; economic illiteracy combined with a collapsed media that made the 2008 financial disaster something thatpolitically helped its authors (the Beltway Democratic cabal, from Raines toJohnson to Frank and on and on); and the impossibly horrible McCain candidacy (lousy politician, not very bright, very very psychologically unfit for executive duty at anylevel).

It's not like any of it matters any more, or that I care a whit, but Dubya was the best war-time leader since Truman. And for those too young, dumb, or BDS-smitten to remember or understand, Poppy was an excellent war-time leader as well, and the first Gulf War was executed just about perfectly, against a wave of idiocy that few seem to recall (but I was in the heart of it and know it in great detail) - including the day the Democratic Party died as a serious party (Jan. 12, 1991, when only a handful of Dems voted for the war resolution in the Senate - unbelievable).

Dubya is the most maddening contradiction there is. Truman-like on national security, and as disastrous and clueless as Clinton on domestic policy. The arrogance rdbrewer mysteriously fixates on was visible only once to me - amnesty in 2006. "See you at the bill signing" - that was a small thing, but the tenor of his allies (Lady Graham, et al) was incredibly out of line, arrogant, and of course clueless.

Posted by: non-purist at November 17, 2012 04:25 PM (UViC2)

359 Well rons. Today is pic nic family food day. I have placed my brats in a beer bath with onions where they will boil. I must now create burgers, some sort of salad and a Nanner puddin. Later my friends.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:25 PM (3Y7RV)

360 I met Jeb when we were kids in Houston and W had a place for a while literally two blocks from me. Jeb is a great guy and a fine person and should never ever hold office again unless it is perhaps a cabinet post in a very very conservative administration. Just MHO.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 17, 2012 04:26 PM (+paCV)

361 Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 04:23 PM (mqdAz)

If only it was beta... that shit was an alpha release.

Posted by: sdavis at November 17, 2012 04:26 PM (njVMI)

362
Naw. Reagan's greatest mistake was not impressing conservatives with that whole optimism for the future of America thingy.
If you really respected him, you'd emulate it, copy it and share a positive vision for the future of America. But what did he know? It didn't get him elected by a landslide or anything like that. What a maroon he was, eh?

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 17, 2012 04:26 PM (WwR1j)

363
350344. Dead on, see 334.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:22 PM (9DB70)

Thanks, Cato...and I heartily agree with your #334 comment.

We don't know yet 'who stayed home' this time...but it wouldn't surprise me if it were a lot of Tea Party people.

The Tea Party handed the R-party a huge gift in 2010...and what did the party bosses do?
They let the Dems vilify them as "extremists".
Gah.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:27 PM (ICEh3)

364 Oh yeah, that nanner puddin, with the nilla wafers.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:28 PM (3Y7RV)

365 Posted by: non-purist

Excellent analysis.
Super great number one.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 17, 2012 04:28 PM (+paCV)

366 Reagan's greatest mistake.............Ron Reagan Jr.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 17, 2012 04:29 PM (OWjjx)

367 Are cashews like peanuts?

Time to check wiki...

Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:29 PM (5H6zj)

368 @355. What good will come of continuing to fight gay marriage and abortion? None at all. These are not winning causes, none of our social issues are. We need to send the message that under the tenth amendment, the federal government has no business regulating these things, and that such issues are for state legislatures to decide.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:30 PM (9DB70)

369 Hmmm so cashews are from trees but it sort of looks like the "nuts" are seeds.

Posted by: Y-not annoyed watching the History channel at November 17, 2012 04:31 PM (5H6zj)

370 These are not winning causes, none of our social issues are

Fixed for demographic reality.

Posted by: boulder hobo at November 17, 2012 04:31 PM (QTHTd)

371
367Are cashews like peanuts?

No, cashews are a tree-nut.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:31 PM (ICEh3)

372 Gesundheit

Posted by: Daybrother at November 17, 2012 04:31 PM (+paCV)

373 Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:30 PM (9DB70)

Bullshit!

You want to totally destroy the GOP and get another party started that guarantees Dem ownership of the federal government, drop the opposition to taxpayer funded abortions from the platform.

Posted by: sdavis at November 17, 2012 04:31 PM (njVMI)

374
Anyone have a question about peanuts or presidential politics?

Posted by: Jimmy Carter at November 17, 2012 04:32 PM (lDWQr)

375 Non-purist, Bushes have wonderful temperament. They're statesmen. Very dignified.

The arrogance lies in their worldview and in their acts.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:33 PM (Iyg03)

376 The Bushes have the most dignified hubris ever.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:33 PM (Iyg03)

377 What good will come of continuing to fight gay marriage and abortion?

The abortion fight is worth having just because if not us, then who will defend the unborn, who can not defend themselves. I am Pro-Life, but I support exceptions of rape, incest and life of the mother. Which, I believe, accounts for about 5% of all abortions in this country. Yes, the idiots like Akin need to get a clue about how to present their side.

Gay marriage is, to me, a state issue and, as such, should be left to the states. By way of referendum....let the voters decided. But honestly, can anyone really, besides a word, tell me what the difference is between a civil union (which no one seems to object to) and marriage? If you have all the rights of marriage just without the term...........what the hell is your beef?

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 17, 2012 04:34 PM (OWjjx)

378
Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:30 PM (9DB70)

the point is, when you claim "let's get back to our principles", what you are really saying is, "let's jettison some of our (so-con) principles in order to emphasize other (libertarian) principles".
Fine if you want more libertarianism, but just don't cloak it in the language of "getting back" to anything.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 04:34 PM (d/5qf)

379

well that might explain the missing shells

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:35 PM (KeJAW)

380 Cashew trees are very interesting.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:35 PM (5H6zj)

381 If Jeb Bush is nominated as our nominee in 2016, I will vote for the Democrat. It's that simple.

NO MORE BUSHES. NO MORE SHRUBBERY!

Posted by: Picasa Tucasa at November 17, 2012 04:39 PM (rKJbt)

382 You fricking peasants that didn't graduate from Yale--Bow before me!


Buckley got it wrong. We should have elected names picked at random from the Boston phone book, then excluded names from that list by seeing if any of the names graduated from an Ivy League school, had a law degree, had a trust fund, or were related by the 1/64ths rule to the Kennedys.

When the country needs leadership, you can't count on just anyone, you need to ensure you don't get a prog or a prog-lite!

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 17, 2012 04:39 PM (Cnqmv)

383 If you have all the rights of marriage just without the term...........what the hell is your beef?
Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life


You already know the answer but I'll say it:
It is because in today's culture a Black/Chinese female pedophile has to be un-judged and considered just as mainstream and worthy as everyone else. No body can be marginalized but White males. Thus, Gays are exactly the same as straights except they are special.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 17, 2012 04:40 PM (+paCV)

384

there's a place up here in Somerville MA called Superior Nut (no, really) and they make chocolate covered cashews.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:40 PM (Ba6aP)

385 @373. I want limited government, I don't want to be Progressive Lite. I want more Reagan, not more Bush. I want my national government to focus on governing the nation, not regulating everything that it can possibly regulate. Does this make me not a Republican? Our leadership does not share these values.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:41 PM (9DB70)

386 Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 04:34 PM (d/5qf)

Isopropyl worked great.

Thanks.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 04:41 PM (GsoHv)

387 >>there's a place up here in Somerville MA called Superior Nut (no, really)

We have Western Nut, which is funny because you'd think that'd be in California.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:42 PM (5H6zj)

388 what the hell is your beef?

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 17, 2012 04:34 PM (OWjjx)

Because the civil path to a partnership doesn't rub your nose in it and make you submit to a special class of entitled privilege citiziens. Equal is not good enough, they've got to be "precious" as well!

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 17, 2012 04:42 PM (Cnqmv)

389 In honor of what I'm drinking....


http://tinyurl.com/aze7m9t


NSFW

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:43 PM (GEICT)

390 Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 04:00 PM (ICEh3

I agree with you that both Bushes are good men.

The Bush tax deal of 1990 was, substantively, similar to the deal that Reagan had to agree to in 1982. I blame neither of them for taking the best deal they could get at the time. In addition to having to deal with Democrats in Congress, Bush 41 was under substantial pressure from Alan Greenspan, who wouldn't lower the Fed Funds rate (then pegged at a crushing 8.25%) until a budget deal was in place.

Why, then, the author of this post chooses to give Reagan a free pass for the many times he signed tax increases into law, while focusing such invective and ire on Bush 41, is a mystery wrapped in an enigma inside a delicious chocolate coating.

Posted by: TH at November 17, 2012 04:44 PM (OZ94/)

391

I know a few southern nuts.

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 04:44 PM (Y4TdB)

392 rdbrewer, with all due respect, it's threads like that demonstrate that you're a fucking moron. Worse, in fact: an opportunistic moron. If you believe for a second that G.H.W. Bush said anything remotely like this to Gorbachev, then you're more credulous than a 9/11 Truther. If you don't, and you're just cynically posting it in order to create a springboard for some bashing of your own personal pinatas, then you're a cynical turd.

I happen to think you're a little bit of both. But also, there's a fair bit of outright blockheaded stupidity mixed in there too.

Nothing in your post is remotely justifiable in terms of thesis construction. You want to baldly assert that the Bushes are the Source of All Evil in the GOP? Fine, go ahead: there's a lot to criticize, though that straight-up assertion is so over-the-top and all-encompassing that it's indefensible in any real sense. But don't offer fake evidence as "support" to a thesis that really is nothing more than your own rabid (and not-that-well-thought-through) opinion. Again, there is a huge amount to criticize about the tenure of both Bushes. I could fill up pages. But you instantly delegitimize the serious critique when you shart out this mindless Kos-style bullshit.

You should be ashamed: this is the sort of thing I would expect from someone posting drunk.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 04:45 PM (/COnL)

393 To make it clear, I am not advocating the complete abandonment of principles. What I am advocating is not running on these issues in national contests, and deflecting any attempt by the Left to drag these issues into such contests by using the tenth amendment as a shield, and reminding people that such issues properly belong to the States.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 04:46 PM (9DB70)

394 I guess we can all bitch argue and bellyache. What I see is 10-15 sects of conservatives. From the bushyest bush to the pauliest bot. What are we against? The evil leading the ignorant. The have a messege, a well thought out tested messege that they all stick to. It's whitey and big businesses fault you aint got no ferrari.

We will come together, or we will fight against browshirts in small feuding bands. WTF.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:47 PM (3Y7RV)

395 But honestly, can anyone really, besides a word, tell me what the
difference is between a civil union (which no one seems to object to)
and marriage? If you have all the rights of marriage just without the
term...........what the hell is your beef?
------
Is your point then why change marriage to include same sex couples or the reverse (why not do it)?

I was open to SSM until California. I tried educating myself before voting on Prop 8. SSM advocates could never come up with a reason why they could not simply use civil unions or similar types of contractual relationships. It became clear that it was important to them to change the meaning of marriage, not to "protect their children" or ensure they had visitation rights or whatever strawman argument they used at the time. It's about forcing people to condone their behavior, not about solidifying their same-sex relationships.

I also believe that if we allow marriage to be redefined, we will have to allow polygamy. And if we allow polygamy, we will have sharia law.

The law should not be allowed to redefine fundamental human states like the personhood of an individual or the gender of an individual (Chaz is a girl as far as I'm concerned) or the meaning of marriage.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:47 PM (5H6zj)

396 Hey Jeff B., shinebox.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:48 PM (GEICT)

397 Twankie - Like a delicious cream explosion, from the end of a rigid cake tube. In your mouth.

Posted by: SPANCO Products at November 17, 2012 04:48 PM (K24Ca)

398 Hey, Jeff, how's that Romney support going?

That Jeff's a smart one. He laid it all on the line for Romney. Because Romney could win.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:49 PM (Iyg03)

399 >>>Why, then, the author of this post chooses to give Reagan a free pass
for the many times he signed tax increases into law, while focusing such
invective and ire on Bush 41, is a mystery wrapped in an enigma inside a
delicious chocolate coating.


Because actual history and clear-sighted assessments of politicians are something rdbrewer just can't hack, either intellectually or emotionally. Instead, it's about Tribal Affiliation and Designated Villains who are "all good" or "all bad."

It's brain-meltingly stupid, and appalling from someone with cob-logging privileges on AoSHQ. I know we need content here during the weekends, but we don't need it that badly. Better a blank screen than this sort of FreeRepublic-style bile.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 04:49 PM (/COnL)

400 "This is a quote from him?"

No, attributed to him by Gorby...and I trust Gorby about as far as I can throw him.

Posted by: cheshirecat at November 17, 2012 04:50 PM (Ykts1)

401 Best post of the centuryby somebody not named Ace.

Posted by: weo at November 17, 2012 04:50 PM (9JrlY)

402 398 Hey, Jeff, how's that Romney support going?

That Jeff's a smart one. He laid it all on the line for Romney. Because Romney could win.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:49 PM (Iyg03)

Maybe, but he wasn't the lone ranger.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:51 PM (3Y7RV)

403 Jeff, you be sure and let us all know why you were right about Romney after all. And why everyone else was so very wrong.

Maybe we should call up some of those old, raving addlepated rants of yours. Since you clearly need to be reminded of them.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:51 PM (Iyg03)

404 Hey, y'all. Jeff's back! Finally. He's here to holler at you about how you're stupid not to support Mitt Romney.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:51 PM (Iyg03)

405 Because Jeff knows what he's talking about.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:52 PM (Iyg03)

406 I highly recommend the Bissell Prpoheat2X carpet cleaner, if any of you are in the market. Does a professional looking job even on pet stains and wine spots.

Regarding gay marriage: as a Catholic, I can see that what is desired is forcing the Catholic Church (and other churches) to perform gay marriages. Just as in the birth control insurance issue, the point is not the stated goal, but rather forcing the Church to bow to the will of the State.

This is non-negotiable for Catholics, and so should it pass, one will see a lot of Catholic priests and deacons jailed, and church property confiscated.

Civil unions would be a solution, especially is there were 2 ceremonies like in Europe. (You go to the city hall and then to the church.) But this will not work because a segment of the gays want to force churches to perform the ceremony and by inference tell them they are not sinners.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 17, 2012 04:52 PM (GoIUi)

407 Fine if you want more libertarianism, but just don't cloak it in the language of "getting back" to anything.
**
like State's Rights, the Constitution and Bill of Rights. perish the thought.

Or "it's the economy, stupid" that Americans realize the Federal Reserve is NOT a government entity, and that bail-outs ALWAYS go into the pockets of the 1% globalist pirates who knowingly do fraud "Because I Could" and the US taxpayers will always play suckers paying whatever.

came across this reference...

The Genesis Factor
by Stephan A. Hoeller
The following article was published in Quest, September 1997.

(Old Answers To New Controversies)
Secondly,
consider the political implications of the story of Genesis. Elaine
Pagels, in her fascinating book Adam, Eve, and the Serpent (198,
pointed out that the long-held attitude of the Christian church of
submitting to greatly flawed systems of secular government was usually
justified by the "fallen condition" of humanity as first described in
Genesis. Following largely the interpretations of Saint Augustine,
most Christians felt that even bad governments were to be preferred to
liberty because humans are so corrupted by Adam and Eve's original sin
that they are in capable of governing themselves. The libertarian
fervor of
the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that gave rise to the American
and French revolutions was clearly not motivated by the spirit of
Genesis. The statement that "all men are created equal" does not occur
in that scripture, but sprang from the inspiration of the American
revolutionaries, who drew from Hermetic, Gnostic, and similar
non-mainstream sources.

http://www.gnosis.org/genesis.html


Posted by: panzernashorn at November 17, 2012 04:53 PM (BAnPT)

408 >>>That Jeff's a smart one. He laid it all on the line for Romney. Because Romney could win.

Who was your preferred candidate out of the ones actually seeking the nomination, dumbshit?

Until you can name a plausible one that would have run a better and more successful campaign than Romney (and not just one that made you cum in your underwear with all the awesome fire-breathing hardcore conservative rhetoric) or something like that, then this line of attack is completely ineffective. I supported the best possible choice out of the ones we had.

I still think Mitt Romney would have made a great President of the United States, and I frankly lament the fact that he won't get the chance to fill the position. But even if I hadn't grown to like him as much as I did, he STILL was 1,000x better for us than Newt or Perry or Herman Cain or god forbid Santorum would've been. Do you think it's an accident that Romney ran several points ahead of all the downticket Republicans this year? That's not the hallmark of a poor candidate, that's the sign of a good candidate saddled with a party that has serious PR issues.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 04:53 PM (/COnL)

409 404 Hey, y'all. Jeff's back! Finally. He's here to holler at you about how you're stupid not to support Mitt Romney.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:51 PM (Iyg03)

Well, there was a few million that said fuck it and stayed home, we now have Obama. He wasn't all wrong.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 04:53 PM (3Y7RV)

410 See... Jeff's still not wrong about Romney.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:54 PM (Iyg03)

411 >>410
See... Jeff's still not wrong about Romney.

More importantly, it's not Romney's fault. It's the Party's fault.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 04:55 PM (5H6zj)

412 Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 04:45 PM (/COnL

I wish to revise and extend my earlier remarks by endorsing this comment.

Posted by: TH at November 17, 2012 04:55 PM (OZ94/)

413 Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 04:45 PM (/COnL)

1. rdbrewer's post doesn't merit the vitriol -- he is making an obvious point about the hubris of Bush Sr., and the quotation was illustrative, and correctly attributed.

2. He never suggested that the Bushes are the root of all evil in the GOP...that was your incorrect reading.

3. Using the phrase, "with all due respect," and not showing on drop of respect (even suggesting that he is drunk) is a douchebag move.

4. Now I understand why you are mocked so often.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 04:56 PM (GsoHv)

414 You know what will change minds here and advance the conservative cause?

Bringing up old wounds about '12 nomination process.

I'm sure we'll reach a final conclusion if we bring it up again!

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 17, 2012 04:56 PM (fCMdQ)

415 So, rdbrewer, who should we have run instead? I was for Perry, but he flamed out. I think he would have been a good president, as I also think Romney would have.

So, in your opinion, who should have run?

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 17, 2012 04:56 PM (GoIUi)

416 If we would have just ______ we would have _____.

YOU IDIOT!!!

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 17, 2012 04:57 PM (fCMdQ)

417 Jeff B's support of Romney isn't what makes him a dbag. Him being a dbag makes him a dbag.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:57 PM (GEICT)

418 I'd argue that the Bush43 experience proves that American isn't a conservative country, because I'd argue (against most of you, I know) that Bush's 2nd term was more conservative than his 1st.

1st term
-warrantless wiretapping, massive spying on Americans, and massive expansion of gov't buraucracy
-federalization of education
-creation of a new entitlement program in Medicare Part D
-invading and nation building in other countries

2nd term
-conservative justices (fucked up on Myers but rebounded with Alito, and Roberts has been solidly conservative on all but OCare)
-Social Security partial privatization
-rollback of the more extreme anti-liberty counter-terror policies
-Katrina - yes, I'm saying it: Bush's approach, trusting the local and state governments to do their damn jobs, was the conservative way of doing things. He only moved after it was clear that Nagin and Blanco fucked up completely, and media tried to put all the blame on him.
-federal deficit shrinking up to FY 2007 - aka the first Reid/Pelosi year

Everything listed in the 1st term was supported and passed, everything in the 2nd brought extreme handwringing and failure.

Then he pissed the rest of us off with amnesty and TARP, and that's why he's one of the original SCOAMFs. But note again that amnesty and TARP received popular support, and it's only because we had backbone that they failed.

Posted by: The Q at November 17, 2012 04:57 PM (w4fEE)

419 Hey, CBD!

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:58 PM (GEICT)

420 30
RR had to accept HWB as his VP because the Conservatives did not have enough clout to override the GOP moderates.



I am sorry, I was there and that is TOTAL Horse Shit. We had the votes, we did not have the balls.

We could have nominated Kemp and he would have won. Where do you get this revisionist shit?

It was all about money, the East Coast, read NY, wanted Bush. The CA guys folded.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 17, 2012 04:58 PM (t8d2s)

421 Marple, from the numbers, it looks like we should have re-run McCain for that matter.


Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 04:58 PM (Iyg03)

422 "And for those too young, dumb, or BDS-smitten to remember or understand,
Poppy was an excellent war-time leader as well, and the first Gulf War
was executed just about perfectly"

Those with long and functioning memories will recall a certain April Glaspie, an ambassador in Poppy Bush's State Department, going in to a meeting with Saddam Hussein.

Saddam was pissed that the Kuwaitis, who he thought he had protected against Iranian regional ambitions during the Iran-Iraq War, were both demanding money be paid back that they had given to the Iraqi war effort, and were "slant drilling" under the border into Iraqi oil fields.

Glaspie told him that, in what she phrased as an instruction from the higher levels of the U.S. government, that the U.S. "had no opinion" on Arab-Arab conflicts such as Saddam's beef with Kuwait. She gave no sign that the U.S. was prepared to fight if Iraq militarily moved against its neighbor.

What followed was one of history's most unnecessary wars.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 17, 2012 04:59 PM (ymG7s)

423 >>>3. Using the phrase, "with all due respect," and not showing on drop
of respect (even suggesting that he is drunk) is a douchebag move.


Dude, this is a standard riff that Ace has used for over eight years now. Typical variation: "don't take this the wrong way, but you're a brain dead retard who couldn't reason their way out of a shoebox."

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 04:59 PM (/COnL)

424 >>>Jeff B's support of Romney isn't what makes him a dbag. Him being a dbag makes him a dbag.

Thank you -- FINALLY someone who understands me.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:00 PM (/COnL)

425 Pretty sure Ace was talking about you shinebox boy.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:00 PM (GEICT)

426 Romney would have been a good President. It's a damn shame he lost, and I still have trouble wrapping my head around four more years of SCOAMF.

I think the only thing we all agree on is that business as usual will not succeed. Our debates on the matter may be rancorous, but we need to have these discussions or next time will be business of usual and another graceful, dignified loss.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 05:01 PM (9DB70)

427
The statement that "all men are created equal" does not occur
in that scripture, but sprang from the inspiration of the American
revolutionaries, who drew from Hermetic, Gnostic, and similar
non-mainstream sources.


Hmm, I always interpreted that "all men are created equal" to mean "before the law and the government," since that was what they were creating.

Silly me. These days, so many are more equal than others.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 17, 2012 05:01 PM (lOmbq)

428 Another interesting point about Jeff. His rabid support of Romney pre-dated Perry's flameout. Gingriches, and, well, everyone elses.

But now he flips it in 20-20 hindsight, as if he foresaw what would happen to, say, Perry. Dummies get into post hoc ergo propter hoc territory fairly easily, because they don't know better.

But they do have really big emotions, and they want you to have to deal with them.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:01 PM (Iyg03)

429 Still waiting for rdbrewer to suggest who would've been a more successful nominee -- not even necessarily in terms of winning, but also in terms of preventing more down-ticket losses -- than Romney.

Because if he can't, or if his choice doesn't pass the laugh-test, then he is kindly invited to stow that bullshit line of attack back up his asshole, where he evidently pulled it from in the first place.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:02 PM (/COnL)

430 Marple... which is to say that pretty much any of the other candidates could have done as well or better.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:03 PM (Iyg03)

431 Jeff, you just can't make an argument devoid of emotion, can you?

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:04 PM (Iyg03)

432 Jeff: "Put your argument in your asshole."

Stick your argument in your pee pee, dummy.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:05 PM (Iyg03)

433 430 Marple... which is to say that pretty much any of the other candidates could have done as well or better.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:03 PM (Iyg03)

Yep simply stating this makes it true.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 17, 2012 05:05 PM (fCMdQ)

434
If we are looking at something to 'blame'....then I blame the debates.

We didn't need so many dumbass debates.
We especially didn't need dumbass debates controlled by Liberal Moderators.

No more.
No...fucking...more.

The debates gave credence to and a legitimacy to, the candidates that had no chance whatsoever of ever winning in the General election.

And the people who were saying "Anyone can beat Obama" should be hanging their heads in shame.
This was never true.
It resulted in too many people running in the primaries, and fracturing the conservatives even more.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 05:05 PM (ICEh3)

435 Wow, this is interesting.

By the way Jeffb, if you want an example of Romney's failure as a candidate, all you need to see is the catastrophic failure of ORCA.

Anyone who bills himself as a successful CEO/Manager extraordinaire that can't ensure that a fairly simple software project isn't successfully completed by a drop-dead date has just displayed his incompetence for all to see.

Posted by: sdavis at November 17, 2012 05:06 PM (njVMI)

436 >>>Another interesting point about Jeff. His rabid support of Romney
pre-dated Perry's flameout. Gingriches, and, well, everyone elses.


Oops! You're 100%, completely wrong, and you didn't even bother to go back and check the record before stepping into this fuck-up. I was in fact OPPOSED to Romney early on (I preferred Pawlenty, like Ace actually), and when Perry announced I threw in with him. (Hell, I'm pretty sure I posted to that effect on whatever "Perry announces" thread is on the blog.)

It was only AFTER he puked all over himself during the debates that I concluded he was a complete loser. And after I made that assessment there was literally only one choice left: Mitt. I mean, for non-crazy people, at least. I guess some folks really liked Herman Cain or whatever, but who can defend that?

So: literally everything you just wrote in this post is incorrect. I won't call it an outright lie, because I'm pretty sure you didn't even bother to check -- you just assumed, because you think I'm a predictable cardboard cut-out who hews to a preexisting stereotypical list of political positions you expect a RINO to have.

But you goddamn well better retract now. Because this isn't just he-said/she-said stuff: the written evidence proves you're full of shit on this one.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:07 PM (/COnL)

437 -Katrina - yes, I'm saying it: Bush's approach, trusting the local and state governments to do their damn jobs, was the conservative way of doing things. He only moved after it was clear that Nagin and Blanco fucked up completely, and media tried to put all the blame on him.

Posted by: The Q at November 17, 2012 04:57 PM (w4fEE)


Bush happened to have been correct in everything he did - and didn't do - with respect to Katrina, with the exception that, as usual, he didn't stand up for himself when he was clearly in the right. The federal government does NOT HAVE THE POWER to just run around and take over everything and anything. It was to the state and municipality to handle most of Katrina and they had to ask the Feds for help - which the state and Nola refused to do. Bush was correct in not being heavy-handed in bringing Uncle Sugar to Nola the minute it was flooded and the Nola cops and politicians ran away and hid. That was their problem. Louisianna has a fucking national guard for the governor to call up and deploy. It is NOT the federal government's job until it gets totally out of control.

But ... Bush did the right thing, allowed himself (and our Constitutional structure) to be villified for it, and then helped to pour federal dollars in there like there was no tomorrow. So now, with Sandy, we have people expecting that the federal government is supposed to somehow be in charge of everything - including having to watch that fat fuck in Jersey knob-gobble the Indonesian right before the fucking election for something that IS AGAINST OUR FEDERALISM.

Meanwhile, when there was the gulf oil spill (brought on, in large part, because the feds just had to put the fire out and capsize the fucking platform), and when it WAS the federal govenrment's responsibility to act, Barky did jack shit and refused to allow Louisianna to help or do anything on their own to try to mitigate the damage to their shores and inlets. And, again, the right side of the aisle pretty much ignored this INTENTIONAL OBSTRUCTION by the incompetent malevolent Indonesian and finally let everyone forget how much he had abused actual federal power to fuck up the gulf and oil drilling (including Barky being awarded a Citation of Contempt from a federal court for his assholish, anti-American, shitheaded obstruction). But ... no one even talks about that even as they rant about katrina, for which Bush did NOTHING wrong. NOTHING.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 17, 2012 05:07 PM (X3lox)

438 Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 04:58 PM (GEICT)

Good evening!

I didn't get the joke with your link the the photo.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:08 PM (GsoHv)

439 *sigh* why did Perry have to have a hurt back / suck at debates?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 17, 2012 05:08 PM (fCMdQ)

440 >>>By the way Jeffb, if you want an example of Romney's failure as a
candidate, all you need to see is the catastrophic failure of ORCA.



>>>Anyone who bills himself as a successful CEO/Manager extraordinaire
that can't ensure that a fairly simple software project isn't
successfully completed by a drop-dead date has just displayed his
incompetence for all to see.


No argument here. A major failure, and one that rankles. I don't, however, see candidate Gingrich or candidate Santorum (who would've been hamstrung by having far less $$$ than Romney) doing a better job.

But that said, no doubt about it: an embarrassing debacle.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:08 PM (/COnL)

441 Jeff: "Your argument reminds me of poop and butts."

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:09 PM (Iyg03)

442
Bush 41 less conservative than his son, who wasn't conservative enough, stipulated.



I'm going to take a wild guess that Gorby exaggerated Bush 41's statement.



I'm also not going to waste any time excoriating past Republican presidents, though they certainly had their faults. I'm looking to the future and letting it burn.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 17, 2012 05:09 PM (1Y+hH)

443 Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 04:59 PM (/COnL)

Don't shit on your hosts unless they give you a really good reason.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:09 PM (GsoHv)

444 Actually curious: rdbrew who would have been better?

Outside of T-Paw(zzzz problem again) and Perry I can't think of a single stable character in the bunch.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 17, 2012 05:10 PM (fCMdQ)

445 JeffB put a cock on a cock.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 17, 2012 05:10 PM (4h0z0)

446 #430 Seriously? You think Santorum would have done as well? Bwahahahaha!

Gingrich? I can tell you right now that my two sisters despise him for his loudmouth comments and would have stayed home.

Perry might have done as well except for the fact (much as I like the guy) he cannot debate and would have looked like a moron and would have lost 5-10 points in each debate. Plus racism allegations from the media.

The ONLY reason Romney did as well as he did was that he had no skeletons, so he the attacks had to be on his wealth and his "out of touch" persona.

You think Santorum wouldn't have been attacked on the war on women crap? Times Ten! Or Newt, with his multiple affairs and wives? Hell's bells, if you are thinking that all candidates are the same against Obama, then you are clearly not seeing the reality I see.

So who do you think should have been the candidate? You haven't answered, really.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 17, 2012 05:10 PM (GoIUi)

447 The libertarian fervor of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that gave rise to the American and French revolutions was clearly not motivated by the spirit of Genesis. The statement that "all men are created equal" does not occur in that scripture, but sprang from the inspiration of the American revolutionaries, who drew from Hermetic, Gnostic, and similar non-mainstream sources.

Poppycock. Contract Theory came out of the Late Medieval and Reformation eras, and was soundly based on orthodox Christianity. The Founders were merely the last in a very long tradition - the Vindicaea Contra Tyranos was widely read in the colonies prior to the Revolution, and by Jefferson's own reckoning Algernon Sidney, the Puritan writer of the late 17th century, was far more influential on Jefferson's political theory than was John Locke (like most 18th century men, Jefferson revered Locke for his epistological writings, not for the political writings that Locke is famous for today but were hardly read in the 18th century.)


Anyone who looks at the American Revolution isolated from the writings of the Wars of Religion in the 16th and 17th centuries is just plain ignorant.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 05:10 PM (LQjA9)

448 Posted by: sdavis at November 17, 2012 05:06 PM (njVMI)

ORCA was obviously a failure, but I don't know that it was a straightforward software project. It seems to me that it was quite complex.

That's no excuse....just a comment.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:12 PM (GsoHv)

449 438 Good evening!

I didn't get the joke with your link the the photo.....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:08 PM (GsoHv)



Which one?


So, the whole Outwardly Lewd Morons Who Still Respect Their Vows club thing? I actually got a formal "I want in from a Moron last night. Obv can't make that decision unilaterally. Lol.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:13 PM (GEICT)

450 Analyzing why things broke down is important, but we really need to figure out how to keep the next election from being this kind of fustercluck. Four years from now, gays still won't be able to marry. If they allowed it, they wouldn't have an issue to run on. These people don't solve issues, they drag them out so they can get elected on them again and again.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 05:13 PM (9DB70)

451 >>>Don't shit on your hosts unless they give you a really good reason.

Look, if I had that sort of self-control I'd be a completely different person here.

You know, like "Jeff B.", except actually somewhat likeable.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:13 PM (/COnL)

452 Wait, so is Jeff defending Boosh or Gorby?

Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 05:14 PM (mqdAz)

453 has anyone looked into the social network techniques/stuff the democ-rats used for Facebook, twitter, etc?



I think Instapundit has something on that recently



Posted by: jake in ID at November 17, 2012 05:14 PM (2CiZb)

454 Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:13 PM (GEICT)

Sure you can. You are a founding member. Just check the minimum requirements.

For a moronette: Nice boobs (firmness and shape -- size is discretionary).

For a moron: must be breathing and have showered in the past 72 hours.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:15 PM (GsoHv)

455 Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:13 PM (GEICT)

DSL

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:16 PM (GsoHv)

456 Wow. What venom. Is there background history between the two of you that I don't know about that would make a feud this angry make sense? Did Jeff walk in on rdbrewer in bed with his girlfriend?

Posted by: just L at November 17, 2012 05:17 PM (0PiQ4)

457 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:15 PM (GsoHv)



Lmao. No, there are def posters that I would say hell no to. In this case, it's DC in Towson. Really cool guy from what I know.


And as for the Ettes, until they start posting pics, not gonna happen.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:18 PM (GEICT)

458 Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:13 PM (/COnL)

I'm serious.

You want to be a regular around here?: Show some fucking respect for the work the cobloggers do to keep us entertained.

If you disagree, then make a cogent argument, not a douchebag ad hominem attack that is based on your misreading of the post.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:18 PM (GsoHv)

459 "Romney would have been a good President."

Romney would have been preferable to Obama in certain ways.

Predominantly in the area of federal judicial appointments.

But...

Would Romney have wished to, or been able to, significantly roll back the obese Federal leviathan? All available evidence suggests he would have attempted instead to managerially tinker around the edges of an essentially insolvent and unsustainable model. The equivalent of putting a 500lb man on diet soda.

Would Romney have insisted on a return to sound money? His openly stated preference was to replace The Benbernank with the equally odious William Dudley. Printing would have continued at its present blistering pace. And the malign influence in the halls of government of Goldman Sachs, a.k.a. the vampire squid, would be even more overt and damaging than it is today. Dudley is a tentacle of said squid.

Would Romney have ceased to throw money down energy policy ratholes? Less so than Obama, to be sure. But go ask the Iowa ethanol interests to whom Romney adroitly and obsequiously pandered during the GOP primaries. If ethanol, the biggest catastrophe of all on energy policy, was to be sacrosanct, then it's not hard to conclude that no genuine reforms would have issued from a hypothetical Romney administration.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 17, 2012 05:18 PM (ymG7s)

460 Just L, Jeff's been like that forever: Arguments can't be laid out like mine over the last couple of posts. Arguments have to be strident and personal.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:19 PM (Iyg03)

461 I have my doubts about that Gorbachev quote unless somebody can find a little younger record of it than his memory of Bush's exact words spoken 22 years earlier.

Posted by: Andy at November 17, 2012 05:19 PM (OZPoa)

462 455 Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:13 PM (GEICT)

DSL
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:16 PM (GsoHv)



Somebody posted early on "Read My Lips"...DSL is slang for dick sucking lips....so I combined the two. Cause I'm me.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:19 PM (GEICT)

463 Regarding the debates, here is my suggestion:

They should be run by the RNC. Put them on streaming video and You Tube. Hire some boring monotone guy to ask questions drawn from a hat.

No networks get them. None. If people don't have computer hook-ups, let local GOP offices host watching parties with big screen TV's.

Michael Steele agreed to those debates before he was ousted. And our candidates fell into the trap. Who remembers that out of nowhere question about birth control by George Staphanopolous? That was the opening, coordinated salvo in the war on women theme.

Also, since we cannot get rid of Iowa and new Hampshire, inform all candidates that only those who have an average of 20% support in those two primaries get to continue on. We do NOT need candidates who know they won't win but like to get TV time and thus speaking engagements and groupies. Enough of that.

And also, anyone who appears in a network media sponsored forum is disqualified.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 17, 2012 05:20 PM (GoIUi)

464 Good thing we don't need the Gorby quote to make the argument about Bush, then.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:21 PM (Iyg03)

465 >>>Wait, so is Jeff defending Boosh or Gorby?

Neither. I'm merely continuing to fight the war against stupidity.

See, that's the thing: I don't have any particular brief for Bush 41 or Bush 43. I think they were/are lovely, decent human beings on a personal level, but I suspect that I'd be in agreement with 98% of the rest of the criticisms offered by other commenters here about them. Which is precisely why rdbrewer's post is so frustrating and self-defeating: it takes a solid, serious critique and delegitimizes it by turning it into a dumb, garish cartoon. I get the fact that he's not really interested in making a serious critique, that he'd rather fall back on vapid generalities because 1.) they're easier to write; 2.) they feel better to hurl; 3.) they typically generate a chorus of like-minded huzzahs that is psychologically bolstering. But AoSHQ shouldn't seek to pattern itself after the Two Minutes' Hate (unless the hate is directed at Scandis). This is supposed to be a smart military blog, more thoughtful than that.

Which is why I sometime swing into threads like these, guns a-blazin'. Somebody has to push back equally as hard as the push forward, after all. (Well that and, as BCochran pointed out, also because I'm a douchebag.)

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:21 PM (/COnL)

466 "Somebody posted early on "Read My Lips"...DSL is slang for dick sucking lips....so I combined the two. Cause I'm me."

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:19 PM (GEICT)


Got it!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 17, 2012 05:22 PM (GsoHv)

467 "Perry might have done as well except for the fact (much as I like the
guy) he cannot debate and would have looked like a moron and would have
lost 5-10 points in each debate."

Perry is a snappy debater. When he's not catastrophically short of sleep and wasted on pain pills.

It's really a shame that he may have screwed his future on the national stage with those ill-advised appearances, given the questionable condition of his damaged back. His advisors should have said to him, "Rick, this isn't the year. You need to take time off and heal up. Come back when you are in fighting trim."

Posted by: torquewrench at November 17, 2012 05:22 PM (ymG7s)

468
--Bush, as quoted by Mikhail Gorbachev in a 2009 interview in The Nation.

I would taken anything Gorvachev says with a grain of salt. The man is loathed in Russia, Iknow this frommy acquaintances there,and is a constant media hound in Europeto stay relevant and earn afew quid via speaking fees. I think he and his family lives in the UK these days. Read Anatoly Dobrynin's book, the USSR embassador for decades in the US. He wasn't to kind on hisanalysis of the man either.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at November 17, 2012 05:22 PM (qnwgE)

469 Romney would have been good from the angle that he'd have done far less damage to this country than Obama. Real reform is probably a thing we won't see for decades yet no matter who wins.

Posted by: Cato at November 17, 2012 05:22 PM (9DB70)

470 >> has anyone looked into the social network techniques/stuff the democ-rats used for Facebook, twitter, etc?

There was a good piece in The Atlantic this week on the extremely polished, professional data org the Donks have put together.

Unlike, you know, ours.

http://tinyurl.com/brq42fo

Posted by: Andy at November 17, 2012 05:22 PM (OZPoa)

471 Why is the spaces between some of my words dropping in my posts?

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at November 17, 2012 05:23 PM (qnwgE)

472 Hey Jeff B.

Sorry to disappoint but I'm still here.

Posted by: DrewM. at November 17, 2012 05:23 PM (AR+tO)

473 Here is my New Year's prediction, WAAAY early!


BHO's second term will be way worse than his first

and



Posted by: jake in ID at November 17, 2012 05:23 PM (2CiZb)

474 I'll tell ya, if I was in anyway involved in the development of the ORCA clusterf*ck, - overlooking redundancy, demographic distribution, cross-platform testing, etc., I'd wanna kill myself about now. The acceptance of wasted man-hours must have been a brutal realization.

Posted by: Fritz at November 17, 2012 05:24 PM (mqdAz)

475
Posted by: torquewrench at November 17, 2012 04:59 PM (ymG7s)

oh gawd, don't tell me you fell for the April Glaspie nonsense?

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:24 PM (d/5qf)

476 472 Hey Jeff B.

Sorry to disappoint but I'm still here.

Posted by: DrewM. at November 17, 2012 05:23 PM (AR+tO)



Dammit!!


Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:24 PM (GEICT)

477 Romney might have:

Rolled back the poorer parts of Obama care.

Instilled confidence in the manufacturing sectors.

Prevented massive layoffs that are occurring daily.

Provided moral support and encouragement to Israel.

Moved the tax code in a flatter direction.

The list goes on and on.

Instead we get to look forward to hunger games.

Posted by: sTevo at November 17, 2012 05:25 PM (VMcEw)

478 I saw an interview with Bush I and one of his principal advisers about five years after his loss to Clinton. They were yammering on about the rubes not understanding what a great job they were doing. Still hadn't figured it out. Elitist Brainiacs.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 17, 2012 05:25 PM (6H6FZ)

479 >>>Good thing we don't need the Gorby quote to make the argument about Bush, then.

Then make it. You haven't yet. Make the argument -- and prove it, rather than just pulling a Mark Levin and shouting a bunch of assertions -- without reference to "just so" quotes that are way too good to check.

Because otherwise I'm inclined to think that you're wrong. That you can't "get there from here" so to speak, get to your "ZOMG these Northeastern RINOs have utter contempt for us good old-fashioned middle-America conservative folk" thesis without tying it together with a quote that is almost certainly fabricated.

You want to talk about how Bush 43 was fiscally profligate? Game on. Made a bunch of mistakes on foreign policy, embroiling us in at least one war we probably were better off avoiding? Sure, I'm willing to listen. Want to bitch about Bush's proposed amnesty? Rick Perry would disagree, and I know you supported him, but I'm willing to forget that and listen.

But spare me this "patrician contempt" thesis when it's unsupported by anything that can't be more easily explained by recourse to other things.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:26 PM (/COnL)

480 Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at November 17, 2012 05:23 PM (qnwgE)

Fuck you. That's why.

Posted by: 1995 software on a TRS 80 at November 17, 2012 05:26 PM (GsoHv)

481 Instead we get to look forward to hunger games.
Posted by: sTevo at November 17, 2012 05:25 PM (VMcEw)

dibs on the hottie skinny girl with the big rack!

Posted by: Moron #3 at November 17, 2012 05:27 PM (2CiZb)

482 Watch this space:

"Los Angeles County court officials announced sweeping cuts in the judicial system Wednesday, including the closure of all courtrooms in 10 regional courthouses."

Remind me again, what do people do when access to a government's legal system is limited?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 17, 2012 05:27 PM (4h0z0)

483 >>>Then make it. You haven't yet.

Click on the hyperlink, Einstein.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:27 PM (Iyg03)

484 Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:26 PM (/COnL)




Exhibit 1: Record while in office

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:27 PM (GEICT)

485 Soooo...it looks like Jeffy B is masturbating in public again ...just for the attention

Posted by: Erasmus B. Huge at November 17, 2012 05:27 PM (Yhu4q)

486 >>>Hey Jeff B.

Sorry to disappoint but I'm still here.


Nah, I'm not disappointed. I think you're downright insane in your vitriol against Romney but despite our heated exchanges I still think you're good people and you're an asset to the Moronblog. I'd be disappointed if you left, really.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:28 PM (/COnL)

487 463 "Regarding the debates"

Good points all, but it's important to remember one thing about the debates last time around - we had them, like, every week for 4 months and then had nothing for about a month before Iowa.

Newt Gingrich was a serious threat to grab the nomination because he was dominating the debates and they were still fresh in people's minds, and then POOF - no debates for 3 weeks, the ads come in, and all of a sudden, fucking Rick Santorum is winning a major primary.

If you're going to do debates, you can't have them bunched together with each other but THEN stop them so far away from the caucuses and primaries.

Posted by: The Q at November 17, 2012 05:28 PM (w4fEE)

488 >>>your "ZOMG these Northeastern RINOs have utter contempt for us good old-fashioned middle-America conservative folk" thesis

Look at this. It's like arguing with a comment troll who can't read objectively. Oh, wait...

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:29 PM (Iyg03)

489 yeah, the debates. I don't understand why the Donks get away with boycotting Fox News from hosting one of their debates, but we have to put up with 15 leftwing orgs hosting our debates

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:29 PM (d/5qf)

490 Wow, what this thread actually is, it's an example of why we keep losing. Not just in *a* way, but in a hundred little ways.

I mean, we start with an uncritical look at a quote delivered by "the flagship of the left" by "Gorby the Liar," and rapidly devolves into a screaming slapfight between factions trying to be The Best Loser in the last election.

What an unutterable clusterfuck.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 17, 2012 05:29 PM (bxiXv)

491 OT but it made me laugh: "Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist."

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:30 PM (GEICT)

492 and yeah, there were way too fucking many debates
I'd say limit it to 6 debates, tops

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:31 PM (d/5qf)

493
463 Regarding the debates, here is my suggestion:

They should be run by the RNC. Put them on streaming video and You Tube. Hire some boring monotone guy to ask questions drawn from a hat.

No networks get them. None. If people don't have computer hook-ups, let local GOP offices host watching parties with big screen TV's.

Michael Steele agreed to those debates before he was ousted. And our candidates fell into the trap.

-------------

Well this proposal is better than a repeat of the clusterfuck that we witnessed.

But I say....keep the primary debates to a bare minimum.
Two or maybe three, but that's it.

Having any at all, keeps the money split between too many loser candidates that have no chance of winning in the General.

As you point out, Miss Marple...we get far too many people running who are only in it for the self-promotion.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 05:33 PM (ICEh3)

494 "Romney would have been good from the angle that he'd have done far less
damage to this country than Obama. Real reform is probably a thing we
won't see for decades yet no matter who wins."

We don't have decades.

The hoofbeats of the bond market vigilantes are already audible in the distance.

There's an old saying that "Events are in the saddle, and are riding men."

Replace "events" with "markets" and you'll have the right start.

As the Greeks have recently found out, having the markets move decisively against your country is an, er, _consequential_ event. Your country essentially ceases to exist as you have known and recognized it. Your destiny leaves your control.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 17, 2012 05:34 PM (ymG7s)

495 Merovign, part of the problem is close-mindedness. I don't believe there is any set of facts which can move people like Jeff off his support of moderate, Rockefeller Republicans. We could lose elections for the next 100 years, and it wouldn't sink in. That kind of thing happens when a person makes decisions with the emotional parts of their brain.

You can't just say to them, look at these facts: All of these people have something in common. All of them rejected small-government conservatism.

That won't work. When a person filters their perception, there are no other facts to challenge their worldview.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:34 PM (Iyg03)

496 BTW, if you read that Atlantic thing I linked above it'll make you absolutely sick from the very beginning when you compare it to Orca FAIL.

Posted by: Andy at November 17, 2012 05:35 PM (OZPoa)

497
489yeah, the debates. I don't understand why the Donks get away with boycotting Fox News from hosting one of their debates, but we have to put up with 15 leftwing orgs hosting our debates

---------

It has to stop, chemjeff.

I don't know how far in advance these things are decided...but if Priebus agrees to this same sort of clusterfuck in 2015, then we are screwed again!

No more fucking debates with Liberal Moderators.
No...fucking...more.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 05:37 PM (ICEh3)

498 But I say....keep the primary debates to a bare minimum.
Two or maybe three, but that's it.



I'd be infavor of more debates if we finally got a brain and stopped the MSM from moderating them

you know just have conservatives or right leaning libertarians moderate and also let the candidates have up to 5 minutes to make their point/pound on thier opponent




Posted by: Moron #3 at November 17, 2012 05:37 PM (2CiZb)

499 Posted by: Jeff B. at November 17, 2012 05:28 PM (/COnL)

Hey, nic hijacking is still a banable offense here so whoever is fucking around and posting as Jeff better knock it off.

Posted by: DrewM. at November 17, 2012 05:37 PM (AR+tO)

500 I loved Reagan but his mistakes were large.

Zero Tolerance has trickled down to every damn thing.

He rescued Arafat from the Israelis. Gotta wonder what the middle east would have looked like had we let them kill him.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 17, 2012 05:38 PM (+VMZ0)

501 i thought "DSL" meant damn-small-linux.

My god, what have i done to my file server?

Posted by: endeavor to persevere at November 17, 2012 05:38 PM (zZJJp)

502 and for those who don't know, here is the scoop on April Glaspie:

http://www.csmonitor.com/1999/0527/p23s3.html

the claim that April Glaspie gave the "green light" for Saddam's invasion of Kuwait is *ONLY* supported by the IRAQI transcript of the conversation. that's the only source. and of course the leftist media picked up on that claim as "the truth" and used it to smear Glaspie and Bush by proxy.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:38 PM (d/5qf)

503
Posted by: 1995 software on a TRS 80 at November 17, 2012 05:26 PM (GsoHv)

You proposioning me? Drop your pants.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at November 17, 2012 05:39 PM (qnwgE)

504 Is it OK to call Jeff B.s GF a whore again?

Posted by: iPhone therefore iAm at November 17, 2012 05:39 PM (7+iaE)

505 here's what I suggest:

1 debate hosted by the Reagan Library
1 debate hosted by Fox News
1 debate hosted by some consortium of Heritage Foundation/AEI/Cato think tank type institutes
1 debate hosted by some consortium of Tea Party organizations

and that's it!

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:40 PM (d/5qf)

506 Re:Amnesty, Insty put it best. You have a block that isn't voting for you and your solution is to make them a larger percentage of the electorate?

Posted by: Ian S. at November 17, 2012 05:40 PM (OevbG)

507
Hey, nic hijacking is still a banable offense here so whoever is fucking around and posting as Jeff better knock it off.




Since when? People jack nics, not all the time, but it's not unusual.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:40 PM (GEICT)

508 Gotta wonder what the middle east would have looked like had we let them kill him.
Posted by: typo dynamofo at November 17, 2012 05:38 PM (+VMZ0)


kinda the same as it in now, I'd say



Posted by: Moron #3 at November 17, 2012 05:41 PM (2CiZb)

509 BCochran, actually, yeah, socking a regular commenter is one of the few bannable things around here, even if it is Jeff B., and it's been that way ever since I've been here, which is going on 4 years now

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:42 PM (d/5qf)

510 I don't know if we can stop the debate train. We had a limited number between Bush and McCain, and Gore and Bradley, but by at least 2004, and certainly by 2008, the runaway train of semi-weekly debates had picked up a lot of momentum.

Posted by: The Q at November 17, 2012 05:42 PM (w4fEE)

511 we need a grass roots movement to educate the public about what republicans really are. Our problem is that most people know republican ideas from the liberal left (hollywood, media, schools, comedy central) or from asshats like McCain, Bush, and the DC whores that have never survived based on free market principals, and so have no idea what they are.

Posted by: endeavor to persevere at November 17, 2012 05:42 PM (zZJJp)

512 Since when? People jack nics, not all the time, but it's not unusual.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:40 PM (GEICT)


since forever, jacking a sock is still ok thouigh

Posted by: Valeria Jarret's landing strip of pleasure.... at November 17, 2012 05:43 PM (2CiZb)

513 505 "1 debate hosted by the Reagan Library"

Not sufficient in itself, since the last few hosted by the Reagan Library were co-hosted by NBC and their jerkoff anchors.

Posted by: The Q at November 17, 2012 05:43 PM (w4fEE)

514 "We could lose elections for the next 100 years, and it wouldn't sink in.
That kind of thing happens when a person makes decisions with the
emotional parts of their brain.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:34 PM (Iyg03)"

As opposed to you who looks at everything in terms of winning an election or gaining some perceived political power. You're as unserious as JeffB when it comes to the state of the nation. Just look at your sidebar post on Cruz, where the fuck does Cruz stand on foreign policy? Nobody fucking knows but somehow in your mind (and his) he's the fucking expert on it and is in the position to criticize Romney.

Posted by: lowandslow at November 17, 2012 05:43 PM (GZitp)

515 Great rticle. The Bush family are a bunch of cynical slimeballs. They use SOcial Issues to to cover up their economic and fiscal liberalism. In the process they have damaged the Republican Party's standing in large parts of the country. Why Conservatives have an emotional attachment to these loser I will never understand.

Posted by: Meese at November 17, 2012 05:43 PM (idyso)

516 509 BCochran, actually, yeah, socking a regular commenter is one of the few bannable things around here, even if it is Jeff B., and it's been that way ever since I've been here, which is going on 4 years now
Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:42 PM (d/5qf)




Huh. Even when the regular is a troll?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:43 PM (GEICT)

517 512 "since forever, jacking a sock is still ok thouigh"

Jacking in a sock is an AOSHQ tradition going back to Ewok's 6th grade voyage of discovery, starring Kim Richards.

Posted by: The Q at November 17, 2012 05:44 PM (w4fEE)

518 Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:40 PM (GEICT)

A-I was joking. Jeff being nice made me think something was amiss.

B-Nic-jacking regular posters names without making it very obvious it's a joke and not the usual poster (like in the sig line) has always been one of the two or three actual rules around here.


Posted by: DrewM. at November 17, 2012 05:44 PM (AR+tO)

519 Nic-jacking is really only accepted if the victim is a particularly egrarious troll, andin those casesit is usually pretty clear from context that it is a sock.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 17, 2012 05:44 PM (LQjA9)

520 That won't work. When a person filters their perception, there are no other facts to challenge their worldview.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:34 PM (Iyg03)


Then why open with a grotesquely unlikely assertion to prove your point?

I'm not just blaming you, it's almost everyone.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 17, 2012 05:45 PM (bxiXv)

521 , jacking a sock is still ok thouigh


TMI

Posted by: endeavor to persevere at November 17, 2012 05:46 PM (zZJJp)

522 A-I was joking. Jeff being nice made me think something was amiss.

B-Nic-jacking regular posters names without making it very obvious it's a joke and not the usual poster (like in the sig line) has always been one of the two or three actual rules around here.


Posted by: DrewM. at November 17, 2012 05:44 PM (AR+tO)




Ahhhh. Posting while drunk is new for me, so I must've just missed your intention.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:46 PM (GEICT)

523
498 I'd be infavor of more debates if we finally got a brain and stopped the MSM from moderating them

you know just have conservatives or right leaning libertarians moderate and also let the candidates have up to 5 minutes to make their point/pound on thier opponent

-------------

Except for Huckabee.
Huckabee should be banned from ever hosting another 'forum' or whatever the fuck you want to call those things he did.

That one where he had a 'panel' of AG's from three states was like a fucking Inquisition!

Bottom line:
Debate performance has nothing to do with being a good President.
How many times does a president ever have to debate anything once he is elected?

And it's only us political junkies who watch the primary debates anyway.
The general public just votes for the guy who is the most 'likeable'.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 05:47 PM (ICEh3)

524 Merovign, "kinder, gentler, I know better" didn't exactly work, and that's less of an assertion than it is a fact.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 17, 2012 05:47 PM (Iyg03)

525 Its only okay to hijack nics from worthlessscum like me. Thats alright. Even my mother would do it if she posted here. She would mock me for my underdeveloped genitals that are hardly distinguishable from lady parts. Or the fact that she always encouraged neighborhood kids to throw things at me to make my father and my siblings laugh.Thats life. Well, my life. So its okay if you grab my nic.

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 05:49 PM (3H6Pa)

526 how closely linked religious beliefs and political liberties actually are....

Dr
Fred Graves had a long illumination and lesson of this subject on his
radio show "Jurisdictionary". I believe the secularization and attack on
the Christian beliefs are a tool the tyrannical class are employing to
eliminate any legal defense of the individual citizen.


Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at November 17, 2012 03:06 PM (BAnPT)

-----------


I will have to look into that. That sounds interesting.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 17, 2012 05:50 PM (P6QsQ)

527
Nic-jacking is really only accepted if the victim is a particularly egrarious troll, andin those casesit is usually pretty clear from context that it is a sock.

Like this?

Posted by: Curiously linking to Ghey Pron! at November 17, 2012 05:50 PM (bmBLU)

528 N.E. RINOs are arrogant fucks. I lived with them, read them, even worked on a campaign to get started way back in the day. They are God-awful, annoying assholes.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 17, 2012 05:50 PM (6H6FZ)

529 FUCK NO YOU CAN"T JACK A SOCK!!

you raaaaaa aaaasists!


Posted by: Jen Kloggerstiein from Battlewagon, Vermont whose lady parts smell like a sock at November 17, 2012 05:50 PM (2CiZb)

530 Zero Tolerance has trickled down to every damn thing.

I loved him, too, and I would have to agree with that. Although he did not start the War on Drugs, he ramped it up. Waste of money. The boost to the DEA, among other things, has left us with weaponized, militarized police forces. The friendly cop, is no more. Not his fault, per se, but I'll never trust law enforcement ever again. I understand his reasoning, but in that regard, the country was too far past his youthier days and his thinking was obsolete.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 05:50 PM (2Rwdk)

531 That one where he had a 'panel' of AG's from three states was like a fucking Inquisition!

Actually I kinda liked that one.

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:53 PM (d/5qf)

532 Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 05:49 PM (3H6Pa)

Stop socking me! That's not me, I'm too busy sucking cock!

Posted by: Gerg at November 17, 2012 05:54 PM (d/5qf)

533 That one where he had a 'panel' of AG's from three states was like a fucking Inquisition!

Actually I kinda liked that one.


Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:53 PM (d/5qf)



I still say it should be me with a tazer.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 17, 2012 05:55 PM (Gk3SS)

534 532 Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 05:49 PM (3H6Pa)

Stop socking me! That's not me, I'm too busy sucking cock!
Posted by: Gerg at November 17, 2012 05:54 PM (d/5qf)



Dammit! Those aren't me! Can't some moderator handle this?

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 05:56 PM (GEICT)

535
Dr. Fred Graves had a long illumination and lesson of this subject on his radio show "Jurisdictionary". I believe the secularization and attack on the Christian beliefs are a tool the tyrannical class are employing to eliminate any legal defense of the individual citizen.

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at November 17, 2012 03:06 PM (BAnPT)


Very interesting. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. Take that away, eliminate legal defenses and guess what goes buh-bye?

Starts with a "C".

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 05:57 PM (2Rwdk)

536
You know, a Level 2 Google diagnostic around the time that Nation interview was published doesn't seem to show Bush denying he made that comment.

So....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 17, 2012 05:57 PM (kdS6q)

537 533 I still say it should be me with a tazer.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 17, 2012 05:55 PM (Gk3SS)



We weren't talking about your Friday night....

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:57 PM (GEICT)

538 Starts with a "C".
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 05:57 PM (2Rwdk)


I got this one guys


birth Control


Posted by: Jen Kloggerstiein from Battlewagon, Vermont whose lady parts smell like a sock at November 17, 2012 05:58 PM (2CiZb)

539 Waaaahhhhhh, there's sand in my fagina

Posted by: Gerg at November 17, 2012 05:58 PM (kpCLl)

540
I still say it should be me with a tazer.


Okay, how about this then:

1 debate with Fox News
1 debate vs. AtC, with tazers and stompy boots

Posted by: chemjeff-husker at November 17, 2012 05:59 PM (d/5qf)

541
Only I get to cum in my sock!

Posted by: Gerg! at November 17, 2012 06:00 PM (bmBLU)

542 And for the college debate - Hillsdale.

Posted by: Whatev at November 17, 2012 06:00 PM (2t6Gz)

543 Why Conservatives have an emotional attachment to these loser I will never understand.


Posted by: Meese at November 17, 2012 05:43 PM (idyso)

Stupid is stupid does!

Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 17, 2012 06:01 PM (Cnqmv)

544 538 Starts with a "C".
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 05:57 PM (2Rwdk)

I got this one guys

birth Control

Posted by: Jen Kloggerstiein from Battlewagon, Vermont whose lady parts smell like a sock at November 17, 2012 05:58 PM (2CiZb)


Monitor, Color, LCD, 1 ea. Overnight Delivery

c/o 98ZJ.......

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 17, 2012 06:01 PM (2Rwdk)

545 Analyzing why things broke down is important, but we really need to
figure out how to keep the next election from being this kind of
fustercluck. Four years from now, gays still won't be able to marry.
If they allowed it, they wouldn't have an issue to run on. These people
don't solve issues, they drag them out so they can get elected on them
again and again.


Actually, the exit polling showed three things and three things only:

1. People were most concerned about the economy.

2. People were secondarily most concerned about women's rights.

3. People thought Romney wouldn't govern in the interest of the majority of Americans, meaning he would favor the rich and try to restrict women's rights. That impression was created because Romney didn't respond to these false allegations.

They liked Romney as much as they liked Obama, and the vast majority of the social issues and foreign policy didn't matter.

Romney lost because he failed to defend himself and make a strong case that the CURRENT state of the economy is due entirely to Obama's policies.

All we need to win is personable candidates who defend themselves vigorously and are willing to ruthlessly define the opposition, using language that makes the average voter understand how government policies impact them personally.

Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 06:01 PM (hzR9T)

546 Moderator?

oh Moderator?

I have stretched and lubed it with bacon grease, could you please "Handle this" for me? Please?


Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:01 PM (EZl54)

547 Posted by: Gerg at November 17, 2012 05:54 PM (d/5qf) Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 05:56 PM (GEICT)

Mum, is that you again??? Hey, would you please stop that???

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:02 PM (3H6Pa)

548
531 That one where he had a 'panel' of AG's from three states was like a fucking Inquisition!


Actually I kinda liked that one.

-------------

A format like that only benefitted the candidates were not currently in any sort of office.
They were free to expound on 'hypotheticals'.

Whereas Perry, who was in office...ended up being grilled about the things he was currently doing.
And with no regard to what he was having to deal with in Texas that is different than what those 3 AG's have to deal with.

Posted by: wheatie at November 17, 2012 06:03 PM (ICEh3)

549 illsdale’s modern rise to prominence occurred in the 1970s. On the pretext that some of its students were receiving federal loans, the Department of Health, Education and Welfare attempted to interfere with the College’s internal affairs, including a demand that Hillsdale begin counting its students by race. Hillsdale’s trustees responded with two toughly worded resolutions: One, the College would continue its policy of non-discrimination. Two, "with the help of God," it would "resist, by all legal means, any encroachments on its independence."

Following almost a decade of litigation, the U.S. Supreme Court decided against Hillsdale in 1984. By this time, the College had announced that rather than complying with unconstitutional federal regulation, it would instruct its students that they could no longer bring federal taxpayer money to Hillsdale.

Posted by: Whatev at November 17, 2012 06:04 PM (2t6Gz)

550 For me the election issue was about having free condoms.

Posted by: Julie (also 1/32 Indian) at November 17, 2012 06:05 PM (gbtFj)

551 547 Posted by: Gerg at November 17, 2012 05:54 PM (d/5qf) Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 05:56 PM (GEICT)

Mum, is that you again??? Hey, would you please stop that???
Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:02 PM (3H6Pa)



Stop it! Mummy only does those things when she's been drinking!

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:07 PM (GEICT)

552 A month of free blow jobs to anyone who will take this whiny little asshole off my hands.

Posted by: Gerg's long-suffering mummy at November 17, 2012 06:09 PM (kpCLl)

553 survival tip:

RINOs taste like chicken.

Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 17, 2012 06:09 PM (EZl54)

554 For me the election issue was about having free condoms.

Posted by: Julie (also 1/32 Indian) at November 17, 2012 06:05 PM (gbtFj)


get with the program!

Better Living Through Chemistry!

Girl,
The Pill or the arm implant thingies(last 3 months), now that is how a hottttie like me gets all the Metro's I want.


ummmm. ummm, those shoes they wear and they are so nonthreatening....


Posted by: Jen Kloggerstiein from Battlewagon, Vermont whose lady parts smell like a sock at November 17, 2012 06:10 PM (2CiZb)

555 552 A month of free blow jobs to anyone who will take this whiny little asshole off my hands.

Posted by: Gerg's long-suffering mummy at November 17, 2012 06:09 PM (kpCLl)



You said those were only for when I was a good boy!

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:11 PM (GEICT)

556 We weren't talking about your Friday night....

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 05:57 PM (GEICT)


The ONT? Do I even want to know? I'm going to say no.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 17, 2012 06:11 PM (Gk3SS)

557 "Romney lost because he failed to defend himself and make a strong case
that the CURRENT state of the economy is due entirely to Obama's
policies."

and because the public does not understand free markets. they think regulations have no cost, and competition has no value, and negative consequences should be outlawed by gov. action. Romney did not defend the free market. that is what is missing.

we have lost our greatest tools for education the public (Free to Choose on PBS, Reagan,...) and a grwoing portion of the population does not have any real exposure to free markets in large things that affect their life.

Posted by: endeavor to persevere at November 17, 2012 06:11 PM (zZJJp)

558 Maybe i should add "B." after my name

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:12 PM (Yhu4q)

559 I've been saying this for years. If Reagan had mentored a young, dynamic conservative in the VP slot instead of this RINO soda biscuit how would history have changed? Were there any such conservatives? Was Reagan weirdly, uncharacteristically insecure in his choice of Bush, as if he thought he couldn't win the election without him? In any case, Reagan effectively canceled out his own legacy as anything more than a memory.

Posted by: rrpjr at November 17, 2012 06:12 PM (7Wv/M)

560 Delta Smelt has a great rant going on right now on Twitter.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 06:13 PM (5H6zj)

561 Maybe i should add "B." after my name

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:12 PM (Yhu4q)


Oh shut up!

Posted by: Greg B., masterfully evaluating the right candidates because everyone else is too stupid to do it! at November 17, 2012 06:14 PM (3H6Pa)

562 Can I whine about getting a fresh thread now?

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 06:15 PM (XFOvX)

563 @ 557 endeavor to persevere

Romney lost because of the damage the Bush family did to the Republican Party's reputation.

Posted by: Meese at November 17, 2012 06:16 PM (idyso)

564 562 Can I whine about getting a fresh thread now?
Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 06:15 PM (XFOvX)

Sure, odds of it helping, 0.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 06:16 PM (3Y7RV)

565

didya hear that story out of Romania?

guy making pancakes
his woman is giving him a beejay

guy goes wobbly, spills grease from the pan down his woman's back

hilarity ensues

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 06:17 PM (A3dIE)

566 564 562 Can I whine about getting a fresh thread now?

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 06:15 PM (XFOvX)

---------

Sure, odds of it helping, 0.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 06:16 PM (3Y7RV)



Whining is part and parcel of being a Moron. Right?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 06:19 PM (GEICT)

567 Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 06:17 PM (A3dIE)

Think thats funny? I just had a guy tell me Elks have sex 10-15 times a day.

I just joined the damn VFW.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 06:19 PM (3Y7RV)

568 565

didya hear that story out of Romania?

guy making pancakes
his woman is giving him a beejay

guy goes wobbly, spills grease from the pan down his woman's back

hilarity ensues

Posted by: soothie at November 17, 2012 06:17 PM (A3dIE)




Pancakes and bj's? That guy has to read this site.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 17, 2012 06:20 PM (GEICT)

569 The Mississippi LSU game is pretty good.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 17, 2012 06:20 PM (Gk3SS)

570 Sure, odds of it helping, 0.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 06:16 PM (3Y7RV)

Yeah....need to be able to do it in person......actually need a 5yo to do it in person for you.

Posted by: BignJames at November 17, 2012 06:20 PM (XFOvX)

571 Think thats funny? I just had a guy tell me Elks have sex 10-15 times a day.



I just joined the damn VFW.

---

bwahaha!


USC vs UCLA game is good, too.

Posted by: Y-not at November 17, 2012 06:21 PM (5H6zj)

572 NOOD

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 06:21 PM (3Y7RV)

573 Think thats funny? I just had a guy tell me Elks have sex 10-15 times a day.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 17, 2012 06:19 PM (3Y7RV)

with who?


sexing yourself does not count

Posted by: moron #3 at November 17, 2012 06:21 PM (2CiZb)

574 You said those were only for when I was a good boy!

Posted by: Greg at November 17, 2012 06:11 PM (GEICT)

You were never a "real" boy . . . suck to be you, huh?

Posted by: Gerg's long-suffering mummy at November 17, 2012 06:22 PM (kpCLl)

575 I just had a guy tell me Elks have sex 10-15 times a day.


No mention of other people, though, right?

Posted by: Peaches at November 17, 2012 06:23 PM (kpCLl)

576 new thread up




Posted by: moron #3 at November 17, 2012 06:24 PM (2CiZb)

577 I was not crazy about Bush 1 , mainly because i'm always a little terrified of CIA types in power (silly or not)

Bush 2 I voted my first time as a republican , (Kerry polease imagine that fkn mess)
have to admit i was angered at the patriot act, although i understood the reasoning at the time , still i Knew it would open the door to every President FORWARD, as it has. and it has.

Bush2 was beaten mercilessly by the Media everyday from 2003 on (even i a dem lemming saw that) . I watched that and finally figured out what hucksters the media was and Fellow Travelers for the Progressive Party .
I never would have experienced my own political metamorphosis If I hadn't personally had the Time to witness media ,hours a day and their turn about when they shilled for Kerry sliding into the end of 2002-3
Chris Mathews , blah, i had watched him everyday from 9-11 to turning off msnbc in 2003


i would have been happier with any rep win, would have been better than what has happened.

for me it was maybe we have a chance to none.

Posted by: willow at November 17, 2012 06:39 PM (hX8cq)

578 Bush 2 for clarity ,the second term .

Posted by: willow at November 17, 2012 06:40 PM (hX8cq)

579
Torquewrench, you're a sharp commenter far as I can recall, but here you serve a wider purpose by unforunately repeating one of the 235 myths that "conservatives" or the like-minded have absorbed as truth.

The absurd "green light" idea, originated by a despicable idiot on the Senate Foreign Relations Comm. staff (spawn of a contemptible apologist for Soviet evil and pied piper of silly economic ideas at home), is ridiculous.

Amb. Glaspie was summoned to a meeting by Saddam - fairly rare event - because Saddam was furious at what he rightly perceived as a US saber-rattle (joint exercises with the UAE), which were in fact done to send a message at a time when Iraq had been getting more histrionic than usual in its bullying of the Kuwaitis in their joint commission on debt and the border issues. Saddam was mighty pissed. Glaspie's words were, of course, approved at the highest level - they were also the exact same words used by all US diplomats in all administrations since there were Arab Gulf states with whom to have diplomatic relations: we take no side in inter-Arab border disputes in the Gulf, but insist they be resolved without use of force.

This formulation had been in frequent use in earlier eras, as the Saudis' main foreign policy objective early in their "modern" era was to make sure what is the now the UAE (then the Trucial States ... that "truce" being a British-sponsored one, the purpose of which, inter alia,was to keep these things out of Saudi hands. "Eastern Arabian Frontiers" by JB Kelley for those with a bizarre curiousity to get into the nitty gritty. Hearing that line from Glaspie would not have signaled any sort of weakness, compliance, or "wink" from the US to Saddam. Not even close.

Bottom line: there is not the slightest chance that Saddam got any sort of "green light" from Glaspie, after calling her in for a harsh confrontation after what Iraq considered a "provocative" US move, and, of course, after witnessing first-hand the US go to war (small scale) with Iraq's then adversary, Iran, to protect Kuwait and other Iraqi "allies" (financiers) with horizontal escalation, as Tehran tried in its depseration in 1987 (reflagged tankers, Praying Mantis, etc.). Oh - and recall that the Carter Doctrine (yes, Virginia, the heretofore worst president in US history - while in office - was unimaginably superior to the idiot now in the Oval Office with respect to national security - THAT's how f***ed we currently are ....) was a recent, dramatic, and explicit public statement by the US that the Gulf oil sheikhdoms were a core security interest and would be defended with force.

Anyone with the slightest actual familiarity with Ba'athist Iraq or Gulf security in that era would laugh at the suggestion that Saddam actually thought the US would be cool with him swallowing up Kuwait by force (and obviously then ruling the roost throughout the Gulf). It's an absurd idea - but sadly a fairly typical one with what I term the Beltway Stupid framework or mindset that prevails (and no torquewrench you are not stupid, obviously, it's the whole framing of issues that has become orwellian).

Saddam calculated that he could get away with it, not that we wouldn't resist him. Obvious at the time, from Iraqi behavior, and of course confirmed by the man himself while in our custody at Camp Cropper.

Anyway, I figured someone would jump on the other part of my bold assertion, regarding the conflict termination. It's mindless and unreasonably (as in 20/20 hindsight) to blithely assert - as most seem to have done for years - that the US made a mistake by not "going to Baghdad" in 1991. Mindless because our war aims had been achieved - more quickly and more cheaply than anticipated - and unreasonable because there was no reason to believe the Ba'athist regime would survive the aftermath. It actually didn't, in Kurdistan. Only through a small evil miracle and lots of depravity (which I had the privilege of helping investigate and punish) in the south and in the Sunni center did Saddam survive.

Ah hell, since I brought it up, let's do the other great myth: that the US called for a popular uprising against Saddam. Wrong. In a speech to a veterans' organization in late February, before the start of the ground campaign, Bush responded to the rather amazing and high-profile public slander of the Coalition air campaign by Evgeniy Primakov, a slimy and thuggish Soviet foreign policy holdover who Gorby probably gave some leash in order to hedge against even more hardline domestic and disgusted hardline Arab displeasure with the way the Soviets did little to block the US-led Coalition effort to free Kuwait.Bush suggested that the removal of Saddam by Iraqis - a clear reference to a military coup, as a popular revolt was hardly even a possibility in a Stalinist state like Iraq - as an ALTERNATIVE to Coalition military activity. Alternative. As in, you remove the regime, we suspend the war. NOT - you sack the local mukhabbarat office, we come in to back you up.

Sorry for the long comment. Butthe non- and half-truths that constitute most of the framework for discussing SO many important topics - even for smart folks like torquewrench and many others here - have driven me crazy for years. And, actually, led me to give up, even before the recent national politicalcatastrophe.

Oh - and rdbrewer, I know you are attached to your "dignified hubris" line - for good reason, it's pretty clever - but I just didn't see hubris as a defining characteristic of Dubya. And for his father, as war leader, recall that when he said "this will not stand, this aggression against Kuwait" after stepping off Marine 1 at the WH, most of his national security advisers, a few hundred yards away in their offices, were slack-jawed. Even back then, in the last days of the Cold War, even in a GOP administration, taking needed but difficult action was against the instincts and thought-habits of the bulk of Beltway "experts". Poppy made it all happen, without much early support from his inner circle. Depressing, more than anything.

Posted by: non-purist at November 17, 2012 06:42 PM (UViC2)

580
Oh - one item I forgot to add. Not only was Bush's vets' speech clearly directed at the Iraqi military, and as a rebuke to Primakov's slander of the amazingly precise Coalition air campaign. It also wasn't heard in Iraq, at least by very many people.

The revolt against Baghdad was long since a part of life in Kurdistan, long before the first Gulf war. And there is no evidence any Iraqis - in Kurdistan, or the Shi'a south - heard or took into account (even as a misinterpretation) Bush's public statement. The revolts were the definition of spontaneity, when the iron grip of the regime loosened due to war chaos and defeat.

Posted by: non-purist at November 17, 2012 06:49 PM (UViC2)

581 Nothing has damaged the GOP brand more than the Bush family. Jeb better just keep dreaming, we're done with them.

Posted by: Jeepers at November 17, 2012 06:52 PM (XDRsa)

582 A. Fucking. Men.

Posted by: thirteen28 at November 17, 2012 07:00 PM (HxylM)

583
Romney lost because he ran up against a liberal black man. It is that simple. Do you think a white liberalDemocrat would have turned out the black and Latino vote the way that Obama did? Do you think a white liberal Democrat would get the kind of cover that Obama gets from the media? The liberal Democrat would of course get some cover from the media but not to the extent Obama got.
Luckily, a clown like Obama comes around once every 30 or so years. Who do the Democrats coming in 2016? H. Clinton? Please. Joe Biden? Cuomo? Good luck.
When Latino poverty hits 40 % and black poverty hits record highs during Obama's 2nd term, we'll see how the minority turns up in 2016.
Give Obama his tax hikes and tell him he and the Jackass Party now owns the economy. Sometimes you have to let the children have their way to teach them a life lesson.
The GOP should think of a way to F Hollywood up....something like anendorsement tax....all money made from endorsements are subject to a 65% tax rate.

Posted by: Pete_Bondurant at November 17, 2012 07:10 PM (o1paS)

584 545 3. People thought Romney wouldn't govern in the interest of the majority of Americans, meaning he would favor the rich and try to restrict women's rights. That impression was created because Romney didn't respond to these false allegations.
-
I don't remember reading about any regular poll questions that went like that. But I do remember a question about whether candidate A or candidate B cared about people like you. Is that the question you are referring to, or did I miss the actual question?

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 17, 2012 07:26 PM (vRIiW)

585 I always think about the long list of things that led us to this point. Not the end of the country point, but just the fact that Obama has been and is still President. There's a whole host of things that, if they had been different, there would be no Obama.

This is one of them. Had Bush not been an idiot, there would have been no Bill Clinton. Had there been no Bill Clinton, there would have been no Bill Clinton campaigning for Obama, and subsequently allowing Obama to pretend he was running for Clinton's 3rd and 4th terms.

Also, had there been no Ross Perot, there would have been no Bill Clinton. And thus the rest of what I said would not have occurred.

Posted by: Rich at November 17, 2012 07:35 PM (arczc)

586 And frankly, if you are going to name-drop ex-Presidents to idolize, I wouldn't start with Reagan. Federal deficits soared under Reagan.

You have to go back to Coolidge to find an R President who espoused anything like the smaller government policies.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 17, 2012 02:22 PM

-------

Can we not, with this stuff? Reagan didn't operate in a vacuum. He had to work with a Democratic Congress. Multiple, yes MULTIPLE, times he allowed the government to shut down over budget issues. He tried to get rid of the Department of education, he was regularly sand-bagged by the Democrats in Congress not releasing a budget until the very last minute. He tried harder than any Republican since Coolidge to cut the damn budget. But he wasn't a king and he couldn't just force shit through (or, at least, we didn't know he could. Obama has shown us differently).

Posted by: Rich at November 17, 2012 07:38 PM (arczc)

587 89 It'd be cool if you could find a non-Nation, non-Gorbachev quote to support your witch hunt thread.
-
I have secret, special, non-identifiable, non-verifiable sources that confirm everything.

Posted by: Bill Kristol at November 17, 2012 07:39 PM (vRIiW)

588 Dubya is the most maddening contradiction there is.
Truman-like on national security, and as disastrous and clueless as
Clinton on domestic policy. The arrogance rdbrewer mysteriously fixates
on was visible only once to me - amnesty in 2006. "See you at the bill
signing" - that was a small thing, but the tenor of his allies (Lady
Graham, et al) was incredibly out of line, arrogant, and of course
clueless.



Posted by: non-purist at November 17, 2012 04:25 PM (UViC2)

This.

Posted by: redclay at November 17, 2012 07:58 PM (+PlLU)

589 The quote sounds very much like something 41 would have said....just not to Gorby. More like the KGB had GHWB's office bugged or one of his staff on the payroll. Poppy Bush may have been misguided in many ways, but I believe he was a patriot.

People don't seem to value that in a president so much, any more.

Posted by: Otis B. Driftwood at November 17, 2012 08:07 PM (2obW7)

590 It is problematic to refer to an American Hero like George H. W. Bush as a blockhead. Sure, he made some mistakes, but calibrate your compass.

Posted by: Gunner at November 17, 2012 09:09 PM (8aEKI)

591 The Bush folks probably liked Romney the best of our candidates in the primary too.

Thanks for that.

Posted by: Dustin at November 17, 2012 09:25 PM (D9999)

592 "It is problematic to refer to an American Hero like George H. W. Bush as a blockhead. Sure, he made some mistakes, but calibrate your compass.
Posted by: Gunner at November 17, 2012 09:09 PM"

True. John Mccain, Bob Dole, George HW Bush... God bless these patriots for their sacrifice and courage in service to this country in war.

But they are not steadfast conservative leaders, and their lack of good principles is easily detectable on election day, which gives democrats with vision (stupid vision, but some kind of vision) more pull with people who don't realize how that vision plays out.

Posted by: Dustin at November 17, 2012 09:27 PM (D9999)

593 I don't remember reading about any regular poll questions that went like
that. But I do remember a question about whether candidate A or
candidate B cared about people like you. Is that the question you are
referring to, or did I miss the actual question?


From the poll result that 81 percent of Americans felt that Obama cared more about them than Romney did, and from the fact that the same people gave Romney far higher marks at managing the economy than Obama, and the same people said they worried about women's rights, one can infer that people simply felt that Romney would not govern in a way that benefited most Americans.

Posted by: Llarry at November 17, 2012 09:27 PM (hzR9T)

594 Reagan didn't operate
in a vacuum. He had to work with a Democratic Congress.



Posted by: Rich at November 17, 2012 07:38 PM (arczc)

Yes. I would just ask that rdbrewer accord the same analytic courtesy to Bush 41. Which, from the baseless aspersions and petty tenor of his posts on the subject, he apparently does not.

Posted by: TH at November 17, 2012 09:42 PM (OZ94/)

595 Not a Bush fan at all, but I also doubt Bush Sr. would have been stupid enough to say something like that to Gorbachev, even he felt that way.

Posted by: Jeepers at November 17, 2012 09:44 PM (XDRsa)

596 I would just like to point out that the formatting on that last post is messed up not because of anything I did, but because of this ridiculous commenting software. Ace, you may have gotten it for free, but it wasn't worth it.

Posted by: TH at November 17, 2012 09:45 PM (OZ94/)

597 GBD: I hope that you get this far down in this thread. Try a product called Goo Gone. It is quite good at removing really sticky stuff and works the best I know of on glue residue. Most places that sell cleansers carry it.

Posted by: elisheba at November 17, 2012 10:39 PM (54sKT)

598 Republicans had Bachmann, Cain, Perry, Gingirch, Paul, and Ryan and rejected them all. In the realm of "dummies and blockheads immune to proof" as to exactly how popular conservatism is (and isn't) I'd suggest looking in a mirror.

Posted by: JEA at November 17, 2012 11:01 PM (hpPAv)

599 Its been asked in this thread what if Jack Kemp was Reagan's running mate in 1980.

This is how I envision it:

Kemp gets nominated by the Republicans in 1988, wins the Presidency. Pushes an agenda of "opportunity for all" --enterprise zones in the inner citiies; money from the Dept of Education goes toward school vouchers, and children of poor parents make a mass exodus from the public schools. Federalism on social issues, such as letting states legaize marijuana. Taxes are not raised.
Jack Kemp wins re-electiion in 1992 by not only preserving the Reagan coalition but making great inroads in Democratic constituencies.

Posted by: Ron at November 17, 2012 11:11 PM (9pC4d)

600 Someone suggested that the Bush family are really progressives, which I never considered, but which rings true. Progressives are not bad people per se. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive, as was Jane Addams. They were naive and did not understand the totalitarian implications of their utopian visions.

Anyway, a person does not have to be brilliant to be a good or great president. Truman, Washington, Jackson, and Reagan prove that. What they brought to the table was courage. Displays of courage frightens the press when seen in political leaders because of what it implies, that Americans will be asked to make personal sacrifices and be stake holders in the survival of their country.





Posted by: Mr. Peabody at November 17, 2012 11:47 PM (0b17P)

601 Go from bad to worse.

Posted by: blank at November 18, 2012 12:01 AM (D7lJF)

602 41

Posted by: Director of the CIA at November 18, 2012 12:04 AM (D7lJF)

603 James Bond!1

Posted by: Bond at November 18, 2012 12:08 AM (D7lJF)

604 Im a slut!1

Posted by: chicago at November 18, 2012 12:12 AM (D7lJF)

605 He was waaay too white. I was so offended. What a racist.

Posted by: Heyguys:D at November 18, 2012 12:14 AM (aOb5X)

606 Mega: " Until the Natvist Nazi scum are driven from the GOP, we will continue to lose Florida."

Uhhhh, the FL delegation in Congress is 60% GOP, as well as the State House, and a TParty GOP Gov. Who is "we"?

Posted by: JewishOdysseus at November 18, 2012 12:21 AM (WCzJ6)

607 Don't miss the point. The Nation interviewers led off with a leading question. Of course Gorbachev isn't going to cough up American power as the reason for the fall of the Soviet Union, and his everlasting shame. And the interviewers wanted an alternative. They got one.

Bush Sr., whatever his faults, kept Reagan's foot on the Soviet's throat and finished the job. He pulled together Iraq I, and even if he didn't finish that job, I get why they didn't cross the bridges. It was pretty amazing at the time. I remember.

I'm sure Bush talked trash about his boss. Even out of turn. It happens.

Obama is not Bush's fault. It's ours.

Posted by: mputtre at November 18, 2012 04:56 AM (va04v)

608 NAFTA

Posted by: Hostilian at November 18, 2012 08:09 AM (160GF)

609 Lol. This blog should rename itself "Bumfight Central". It would even have a most appropriate double meaning in English and American vernacular.

And you still cant understand why republicans have a bad public image?

Posted by: Fnord at November 18, 2012 11:23 AM (hoJnS)

610 Yep.

Plenty of love for Bush the Jr., but objectively, the Bush family set conservatism back lightyears, over two decades, no less.

We would have been better off with someone else as Reagan's running mate (although I understand why Ronnie did it, Bush was the next best vote-getter in the primaries).....and we may have been better off losing to Kerry in '04. No Obama, no Obamacare, no any of the excrement that we've seen in the last four years, without Bush's second term, and the '06-'08 Congressional bloodbaths.

Reallllly hoping we don't even consider the Jeb Bush route. The Bushes don't have to go away mad (politically speaking). Just go away.

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at November 18, 2012 04:20 PM (MRcfR)






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